Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On Monday, August 04, 2014 10:11:41 AM Martin Vaeth wrote: J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: These schedules then also can't be restarted from the beginning when they stop halfway through without risking massive consistency problems in the final data. So you have a command which might break due to hardware error and cannot be rerun. I cannot see how any general-purpose scheduler might help you here: You either need to be able to split your command into several (sequential) commands or you need something adapted for your particular command. A general-purpose scheduler can work, as they do exist. (With a price tag) In the OSS world, there is, to my knowledge, none. Yours seems to be the most promising as it looks like the missing features shouldn't be too difficult to add. The commands are relatively simple, but they deal with large amounts of data. I am talking about ETL processes that, due to the amount of data being processed, can easily take several hours per step. If, during one of these steps, the database or ETL process suffers a crash, the activities of the ETL process need to be rolled back to the point where you can restart it. I am not talking about simple schedules related to day-to-day maintenance of a few servers. And then multiple of those starting at random times with occasionally a whole bunch of the same schedule put into the queue with dependencies to the previous run. That's not a problem. Only if the granularity of one command is not fine enough, it becomes a problem. If nothing happens, it can all be stuck into a single script and the end result will be the same. Problems start because the real world is not 100% reliable. If, during that time, one of the machines has a hardware failure or the scheduling process crashes on one or more of the servers, the last state needs to be recoverable. One must distinguish two cases: 1. The machine running schedule-server has a hardware failure. (Let us assume tha schedule-server does not have a software failure - otherwise, you have problems anyway.) 2. Some other machine has a hardware failure. Case 2. is not bad (as concerns the scheduling): Of course, the machine will not report that it completed the job, and you will have to think how to complete the job. But it is clear that in such exceptional cases you have to interfere manually in some sense. Agreed, this happens more often then you might think. In order to deal with case 1., you can regularly (e.g. each minute) dump the output of schedule list (possibly suppressing non-important data through the options to keep it short). Or all the necessary information is kept in-sync on persistent storage. This would then also allow easy fail-over if the master-schedule-node fails. A 2nd machine could quickly take over. One could add a logging option to decrease the possible race of 1 minute, but in case of hardware failure a possible race cannot be excluded anyway. In case 1. you manually have to re-queue the jobs and think what to do with the already started jobs. However, I cannot imagine that this occurs so frequently that this exceptional case becomes something one should seriously think about. As I mentioned above, with BI infrastructure (large databases, complex ETL processes, interactive report services,), the scheduler is busy 24/7. The amount of tasks, schedules, dependencies, states, that needs to kept track off can easily lead to unforeseen issues and bugs.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On 4 August 2014 15:35:41 CEST, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/08/2014 15:31, Martin Vaeth wrote: J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: So you have a command which might break due to hardware error and cannot be rerun. I cannot see how any general-purpose scheduler might help you here: You either need to be able to split your command into several (sequential) commands or you need something adapted for your particular command. A general-purpose scheduler can work, as they do exist. I doubt that they can solve your problem. Let me repeat: You have a single program which accesses the database in a complex way and somewhere in the course of accessing it, the machine (or program) crashes. No general-purpose program can recover from this: You need particular knowledge of the database and the program if you even want to have a *chance* to recover from such a situation. A program with such a particular knowledge can hardly be called general-purpose. Joost, Either make the ETL tool pick up where it stopped and continue as it is the only that knows what it was doing and how far it got. Or, wrap the entire script in a single transaction. Alan, That would be the ideal solution. However, a single transaction dealing with around 500,000,000 rows will get me shot by the DBAs :) (Never mind that the performance of this will be such that having it all done by an office full of secretaries might be quicker.) Having the ETL process clever enough to be able to pick up from any point requires a degree of forward thinking and planning that is never done in real life. I would love to design it like that as it isn't too difficult. But I always get brought into these projects when implementing these structures will require a full rewrite and getting the original architects to admit their design can't be made restartable without human intervention. At which point the business simply says it is acceptable to have people do a manual rollback and restart the schedules from wherever it went wrong. I'm sure your wife has similar experiences as this is why these projects are always late to deliver and over budget. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On 4 August 2014 15:31:40 CEST, Martin Vaeth mar...@mvath.de wrote: J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: So you have a command which might break due to hardware error and cannot be rerun. I cannot see how any general-purpose scheduler might help you here: You either need to be able to split your command into several (sequential) commands or you need something adapted for your particular command. A general-purpose scheduler can work, as they do exist. I doubt that they can solve your problem. Let me repeat: You have a single program which accesses the database in a complex way and somewhere in the course of accessing it, the machine (or program) crashes. No general-purpose program can recover from this: You need particular knowledge of the database and the program if you even want to have a *chance* to recover from such a situation. A program with such a particular knowledge can hardly be called general-purpose. The scheduler needs to be able to show which process failed/didn't finish. Then humans need to ensure that part finishes/reruns properly. Then humans need to be able to mark the failed process as succeeded. At which point the scheduler continues with the schedule(s) If, during one of these steps, the database or ETL process suffers a crash, the activities of the ETL process need to be rolled back to the point where you can restart it. I agree, but you need particular knowledge of the database and your tasks to do this which is far beyond the job of a scheduler. As already mentioned by someone in this thread, your problem needs to be solved on the level of the database (using snapshopt capabilities etc.) Or human intervention. Which requires a clear indication of where it went wrong and allows a simple action to continue the schedule from where it was after these humans solved the issues and ensure consistency. In order to deal with case 1., you can regularly (e.g. each minute) dump the output of schedule list (possibly suppressing non-important data through the options to keep it short). Or all the necessary information is kept in-sync on persistent storage. This would then also allow easy fail-over if the master-schedule-node fails No, it wouldn't, since jobs just finishing and wanting to report their status cannot do this when there is no server. You would need a rather involved protocol to deal with such situations dynamically. It can certainly be done, but it is not something which can easily be added as a feature: If this is required, it has to be the fundamental concept from the very beginning and everything else has to follow this first aim. You need different protocols than TCP sockets, to start with; something like dbus over IP with servers being able to announce their new presence, etc. I think it's doable with standard networking protocols. But, either you have a master server which controls everything. Or you have a master process which has failover functionality using classical distributed software techniques. These emails are actually quite useful as I am getting a clear pucture in my head on how I could approach this properly. Thanks, Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On Sunday, August 03, 2014 07:50:57 AM Martin Vaeth wrote: J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Depends on the specific requirements. If you want: In a sense, most you require can be done with my mentioned schedule tool, although perhaps the usage is not in the way you expected. I agree, based on a quick look. I reorder your points for a clearer explanation: snipped explanation A useful addition to your schedule-tool would be to store the scripts in a way that makes editing simpler and then add an editing tool to make this process simpler. Add monitoring (email alerts, webpage, front-end) to check the status of all the batch-jobs. I might be mistaken, but I think the server keeps the entire queue in-memory and when the process dies, the status is lost? Or is it kept somewhere? -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flags handling
On Sunday, August 03, 2014 04:17:23 AM Walter Dnes wrote: On Sun, Aug 03, 2014 at 09:07:52AM +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote On Sunday 03 August 2014 00:38:34 Philip Webb wrote: 140802 Walter Dnes wrote: In Gentoo, *ANY* kde app which runs on the kde infrastructure requires phonon, and one of aqua/gstreamer/vlc, unless you resort to ugly hackery as per http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/276393 So don't blame KDE, blame Gentoo for not handling Phonon correctly : see KDE bug 190601 Gentoo bug 265864 . +1 Had a look myself just now based on your other comments. KDE actually specifies how to build without any multimedia (audio and video) support: https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/CMake#Command_Line_Variable s cmake command line variable: KDE4_DISABLE_MULTIMEDIA=ON: Build KDE without any multimedia (audio and video) The big question... what is multimedia? Would it be possible to build kde with image support (gif/png/jpeg/tiff/pdf/etc) without building in audio and video? I.e. how integrated is kde's graphics and multimedia? The most common definition of multimedia is audio and video. Images is generally a different set. Also the description specifies audio and video specifically. It might be useful to modify the ebuild(s) to specify that option and see what happens. But I think that needs to be added to quite a few ebuilds and the related dependencies need to be modified as well. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On Sunday, August 03, 2014 02:16:37 PM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 03/08/2014 09:23, Joost Roeleveld wrote: On Saturday 02 August 2014 16:53:26 James wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon at gmail.com writes: snipped Unless you are dealing with Big Data projects, like Google, Facebook, Amazon, big banks,... you don't have much use for those projects. My wife works in BigData for real, she and Joost speak the same language, I don't :-) She reckons Big Data is like teenage sex - everyone says they are doing it and no-one really does ;-D I know a few companies that actually do use it. But, the biggest issue with the whole Big Data thing is that noone really agrees on what it actually is. Mesos looks like a nice project, just like Hadoop and related are also nice. But for most people, they are as usefull as using Exalytics. A bit OT, but it might be worthwhile for interested persons to get good ebuilds going for these projects. Someone will use it on Gentoo, and it will add value to the project. Much like gems and other business-oriented packages benefit I agree, but just to implement a decent scheduler, I still think it's overkill. A scheduler should not have a large set of dependencies that you wouldn't use otherwise. That makes Chronos a non-option to me. Martin's project looks promising, but doesn't store the schedules internally. For repeating schedules, like what Alan was describing, you need to put those into scripts and start those from an existing cron. Sounds like a small feature-add. If Martin did his groundwork correctly[1] then the core logic will work and it's just a case of adding some persistence and loading the data back in on demand The code looks clean and I think it shouldn't be too much work to add it. Of the 2, I think improving Martin's project is the most likely option for me as it doesn't have additional dependencies and seems to be easily implemented. Don't forget Martins is the guy who does eix. Street cred? check Knows Gentoo? check [1] I only say it this way as I haven't evaluated his code at all yet so have no idea how far Martin has taken it The code is clean and does what Martin says it does. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On Sunday, August 03, 2014 12:10:49 PM Martin Vaeth wrote: J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: A useful addition to your schedule-tool would be to store the scripts in a way that makes editing simpler Since it is an arbitrary script in an arbitrary language, I think this is not in the scope of this project to do this. In most cases I used it so far, 1-2 more or less complex lines (maybe a few more if they would not be complex) in an interactive zsh were enough, and these are very simple enough to edit in zsh, i.e. I even did not write any script file in the classical sense. I might be mistaken, but I think the server keeps the entire queue in-memory and when the process dies, the status is lost? Yes, the server process must not die. If it dies, not only the queue is lost but also the waiting processes (that is: queued but not yet started) cannot be reached anymore: These waiting processes do not have their own TCP socket but just keep their established connection with the server's socket until the server tells them through this connection to start or to cancel; if this connection gets lost, the waiting processes die: What else could they do, reasonably? The already started processes have a unique ID (into which the server's process is encoded): They reestablish the connection to report the exit status according to this ID. If the server is stopped, they cannot report this status, of course, and moreover, a new server does not know their IDs either and thus will ignore these status reports. Maybe this protocol is not the most clever solution, but it is one which could be implemented without lots of overhead: Mainly, I was up to a quick solution which is working good enough for me: If the server has no bugs, why should it die? Moreover, if the server dies for some strange reasons, it is probably safer to re-queue the jobs again, anyway. With the kind of schedules I am working with (and I believe Alan will also end up with), restarting the whole process from the start can lead to issues. Finding out how far the process got before the service crashed can become rather complex. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On Sunday, August 03, 2014 10:04:50 PM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 03/08/2014 15:36, J. Roeleveld wrote: Maybe this protocol is not the most clever solution, but it is one which could be implemented without lots of overhead: Mainly, I was up to a quick solution which is working good enough for me: If the server has no bugs, why should it die? Moreover, if the server dies for some strange reasons, it is probably safer to re-queue the jobs again, anyway. With the kind of schedules I am working with (and I believe Alan will also end up with), restarting the whole process from the start can lead to issues. Finding out how far the process got before the service crashed can become rather complex. Yes, very much so. My first concern is the database cleanups - without scheduler guarantees I'd need transactions in MySQL. Or you migrate to PostgreSQL, but that is OT :) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On Sunday, August 03, 2014 10:57:06 PM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 03/08/2014 22:23, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Sunday, August 03, 2014 10:04:50 PM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 03/08/2014 15:36, J. Roeleveld wrote: Maybe this protocol is not the most clever solution, but it is one which could be implemented without lots of overhead: Mainly, I was up to a quick solution which is working good enough for me: If the server has no bugs, why should it die? Moreover, if the server dies for some strange reasons, it is probably safer to re-queue the jobs again, anyway. With the kind of schedules I am working with (and I believe Alan will also end up with), restarting the whole process from the start can lead to issues. Finding out how far the process got before the service crashed can become rather complex. Yes, very much so. My first concern is the database cleanups - without scheduler guarantees I'd need transactions in MySQL. Or you migrate to PostgreSQL, but that is OT :) Maybe, but also valid :-) I took one look at the schemas here and wondered Why MySQL? This is Postgres territory. It's a case of LAMP tunnel vision. That and that people who start with LAMP don't learn SQL. This leads to code that is near impossible to port to a different database and when people actually want to do all the work to get the SQL to work on any database, the projects involved refuse the patches. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Recommendations for scheduler
On Saturday, August 02, 2014 11:33:30 AM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 01/08/2014 23:13, J. Roeleveld wrote: On 1 August 2014 19:32:36 CEST, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Up-front disclaimer: Mostly [OT] post. But at least I'll test drive it on Gentoo before putting it in production :-) New job, new environment. Existing persons suffer from 5-year-old-with-a-hammer syndrome and assume cron is the solution to all ills. Result: a towering edifice of cron jobs that may or may not clobber each other's work, may or may not work at all, and implement no error handling at all. But my god, can they spew out mail from STOUT But cron has only one event trigger: wall-clock time. And it's a very blunt weapon. I'm looking for recommendations of alternative schedulers that satisfy real-world business needs that need some other event trigger than what the time is right now. For those familiar with it, I'm looking for something with the useful feature set, without the useless features and without the price tag of ControlM Anyone care to share experiences? I'm also looking for a free alternative. At most of my clients, I see Tivoli Workload Scheduler (TWS) being used a lot. It has most things what you want from an intelligent multi host scheduler. Unfortunately, it also comes with a corresponding price tag. I have an unusual boss. He's a business owner and quite naturally profit-driven. He also employs smart people and expects us to maintain systems in-house. He's also a zealous FLOSS fan. So when I present him a price tag for software his first question is always is there any free as in freedom software suited for the job? Depends on the specific requirements. If you want: - time based start of a schedule - dependencies in said schedules and between schedules which can delay the actual start - stop of schedule if error occurs - ability to restart schedule from crashed point - have schedules operate over multiple machines (eg. part run on database, some on a compute-cluster, some other bit making nice graphs and printing it,...) Then you might be out of luck. If anyone has something that is already going along these lines, please let me know. I am more then willing to spend time and effort to assist in the development. Doing a project like that on my own in my extremely limited free time is not really an option. I'm still trying to wrap my brains around dealing with a boss that thinks like this :-) Hehe :) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On Saturday, August 02, 2014 11:18:32 AM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 01/08/2014 21:35, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 01/08/2014 20:17, James wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon at gmail.com writes: New job, new environment. Existing persons suffer from 5-year-old-with-a-hammer syndrome and assume cron is the solution to all ills. Result: a towering edifice of cron jobs that may or may not clobber each other's work, may or may not work at all, and implement no error handling at all. But my god, can they spew out mail from STOUT Sounds like a department full of computer scientist I inherited a few decades ago... I've met folks like that Brilliant in their chosen field but completely useless outside it? The kind of fellows who see nothing wrong with eating a barbeque'd steak with a spoon because they can get a result? I know nothing bout chronos, but I find it an interesting readymmv. http://nerds.airbnb.com/introducing-chronos/ http://airbnb.github.io/chronos/ https://github.com/airbnb/chronos Aaaah, now this sounds like something I can use. Proper dependency chains, Restful JSON interface so the devs can write code to drive it in automation. Good find, thanks! Unless I am missing something, chronos is not in the tree at all. Correct, it isn't in the tree. But there's nothing stopping me from getting it in there Neither are the dependencies. If you get it to work, don't forget to create a nice howto documentation as from what I found online, the documentation is incomplete and out of date. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flags handling
On Friday, August 01, 2014 12:26:59 PM Philip Webb wrote: 140731 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 10:47:29AM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote When reading pdf files, one expects images, so tiff and jpeg are reasonable flags. One does *NOT* expect audio stuff like phonon. And phonon *DEMANDS SOMETHING*. vlc is one of the options that satisfies phonon's demands. Or you could choose gstreamer and its gazillion plugins. Not quite (smile) ! -- I ran into this sent bugs to Gentoo + KDE ; the outcome was that I discovered that Phonon doesn't in fact demand that you install the actual sound software : it works to do 'USE=gstreamer --nodeps emerge phonon' Kdelibs then compiles successfully as well. If you compile KDE outside Portage, there's a nosound flag, but the Gentoo devs have implemented that to require 'USE=soundpkg, perhaps knowing that it cb happily ignored via '--nodeps'. Just don't expect this to be documented anywere (grimace). Do you still have the bug numbers for this? I have a few machines without any sound support. If I can remove the entire sound system from it, it would save time during the updates. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On Friday, August 01, 2014 07:11:59 AM Gevisz wrote: On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 20:17:54 +0200 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On 31 July 2014 16:19:21 CEST, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:03:09 -0400 Alec Ten Harmsel a...@alectenharmsel.com wrote: I can't comment on a long-term, real, proper solution, but for right now emerge --oneshot dev-perl/XML-Parser should at least allow you to continue building colord. It seems that it helped, but not the suggestions from # perl-cleaner --all output. Thank you. Did you run the commands and then rerun perlcleaner as the output mentions at the end of the text? No. I did not run perl-cleaner just after those 2 suggested commands because I had not noted that demand. So, my complaint that the suggested long-term solution does not work may be incorrect. The claim is incorrect. I did what it said in the output and it resolved the issue on my systems. However, I run perl-cleaner after # emerge --oneshot dev-perl/XML-Parser # emerge --update --deep --with-bdeps=y --newuse --backtrack=60 --ask world # emerge --depclean --ask So, I hope that the problem was fixed. It should be resolved now. I don't add the --backtrack part. It hasn't been needed for me ever since I started using Gentoo sometime in 2004. (Not sure when it got introduced?) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On Friday, August 01, 2014 11:00:11 AM Peter Humphrey wrote: On Thursday 31 July 2014 16:19:41 J. Roeleveld wrote: On 31 July 2014 16:03:09 CEST, Alec Ten Harmsel a...@alectenharmsel.com wrote: I can't comment on a long-term, real, proper solution, but for right now emerge --oneshot dev-perl/XML-Parser should at least allow you to continue building colord. Please do not top post. Far worse than top-posting is leaving reams and reams of quoted text in a reply that have nothing to do with your own contribution. I'm repeatedly surprised at how many old-timers forget that. Please snip irrelevancies out. Snipping emails using a mobile phone on a bumpy road doesn't work... If you know of a decent email client for Android that makes it simpler? -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On Friday, August 01, 2014 08:05:27 AM Tanstaafl wrote: On 8/1/2014 7:53 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Snipping emails using a mobile phone on a bumpy road doesn't work... So, you're replying to emails while driving? Yes bites tongue hard bashes knuckles harder Are you insane? Sometimes... But I don't drive myself when using my mobile. This is on a bus...
Re: [gentoo-user] What to put in chroot mtab
On 1 August 2014 21:32:54 CEST, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 01 Aug 2014 14:07:08 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: I run a couple of chroots on this box to build packages for other boxes on the LAN. So far, I haven't worked out what I should populate /etc/mtab with in each chroot. Is it enough to grep ext4 /etc/mtab /mnt/chroot/etc/mtab? That catches all the physical partitions, but I imagine I need to add some /proc, /sys and /dev entries as well, but is there a simple formula for doing this? Do you need anything in mtab in the chroot? I've been using chroots to build packages for slower machines for years and /etc/mtab has always been empty or non-existent, with no problems. df gets the hump when run inside the chroot, but the package building works fine. You don't need anything in mtab. I've been building packages for multiple machines for years. Never had any issues using them to update the rest. Only have issues with fetch restricted files blocking the use of a fully automated system. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] What to put in chroot mtab
On 1 August 2014 15:28:01 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: On Friday 01 August 2014 14:07:08 I wrote: I run a couple of chroots on this box to build packages for other boxes on the LAN. So far, I haven't worked out what I should populate /etc/mtab with in each chroot. Is it enough to grep ext4 /etc/mtab /mnt/chroot/etc/mtab? That catches all the physical partitions, but I imagine I need to add some /proc, /sys and /dev entries as well, but is there a simple formula for doing this? I meant to add that one chroot is 32-bit and the other is 64. The host is an i5 running openrc. It has been a good while since I used this. So, make sure it makes sense to you before trying this. This may not work if something has changed in the past several years. Use with caution if at all. This is a little script, if you want to call it that, that I used to do mine. It also lists the command to use to do a 32 bit chroot from a 64 bit rig. Here it is: root@fireball / # cat /root/xx.chroot-mount-32bit mount -o bind /dev /mnt/gentoo32/dev mount -o bind /dev/pts /mnt/gentoo32/dev/pts mount -o bind /dev/shm /mnt/gentoo32/dev/shm mount -o bind /proc /mnt/gentoo32/proc mount -o bind /proc/bus/usb /mnt/gentoo32/proc/bus/usb mount -o bind /sys /mnt/gentoo32/sys mkdir -p /mnt/gentoo32/usr/portage/ mount -o bind /usr/portage /mnt/gentoo32/usr/portage/ echo mounting finished echo run linux32 chroot /mnt/gentoo32 /bin/bash next root@fireball / # You may have different mount points at the very least so edit to match what you have. Again, things could have changed and that no longer will work. It may not be a bad idea to let someone who has done this more recently to give a thumbs up to that. That last command should be: linux32 chroot /mnt/gentoo32 /bin/bash Dale :-) :-) That script is too long :) cd /mnt/gentoo mount -o rbind /dev dev mount -o rbind /sys sys mount -o rbind /proc proc cp -L /etc/resolv.conf etc/resolv.conf cd .. chroot gentoo /bin/bash To undo: cd /mnt/gentoo umount -l proc sys dev If you need a 32bit chroot, put linux32 before the chroot like Dale mentioned. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On 1 August 2014 14:44:06 CEST, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 8/1/2014 8:42 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: But I don't drive myself when using my mobile. This is on a bus... Lol... sorry, I never ride a bus so didn't consider that possibility... ;) I have 2 options to get to my current customer: - car - bus Travel time for both is identical (door to door) Bus costs me less than 4 euros for a return trip. Car park is 12 euros a day (my employer pays for the car and fuel, so that doesn't enter the equation) Which means I can catch up on my personal email during the commute, safe money and not loose any time stuck in traffic (bus has seperate lanes) -- Joost Ps. I prefer to drive myself, but in this case it really doesn't make any sense. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On 1 August 2014 19:14:08 CEST, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 01/08/2014 10:07, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Friday, August 01, 2014 07:11:59 AM Gevisz wrote: On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 20:17:54 +0200 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On 31 July 2014 16:19:21 CEST, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:03:09 -0400 Alec Ten Harmsel a...@alectenharmsel.com wrote: I can't comment on a long-term, real, proper solution, but for right now emerge --oneshot dev-perl/XML-Parser should at least allow you to continue building colord. It seems that it helped, but not the suggestions from # perl-cleaner --all output. Thank you. Did you run the commands and then rerun perlcleaner as the output mentions at the end of the text? No. I did not run perl-cleaner just after those 2 suggested commands because I had not noted that demand. So, my complaint that the suggested long-term solution does not work may be incorrect. The claim is incorrect. I did what it said in the output and it resolved the issue on my systems. However, I run perl-cleaner after # emerge --oneshot dev-perl/XML-Parser # emerge --update --deep --with-bdeps=y --newuse --backtrack=60 --ask world # emerge --depclean --ask So, I hope that the problem was fixed. It should be resolved now. I don't add the --backtrack part. It hasn't been needed for me ever since I started using Gentoo sometime in 2004. (Not sure when it got introduced?) s/(Not sure when it got introduced)/$1 or even what it is for?/g There ya go, fixed that for ya. This appears to hold true for every Gentoo'er in the universe except 10 people in the magic $I_GROK_PORTAGE group. I myself am not in that group. I've followed a few recent discussions in the gentoo-dev list where the backtrack option got sorta explained. To me it sounds like a classical compromise between being quick or being thorough. With the choice being the same as when writing AI for a chess program. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On 1 August 2014 19:19:49 CEST, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 01/08/2014 13:53, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Friday, August 01, 2014 11:00:11 AM Peter Humphrey wrote: On Thursday 31 July 2014 16:19:41 J. Roeleveld wrote: On 31 July 2014 16:03:09 CEST, Alec Ten Harmsel a...@alectenharmsel.com wrote: I can't comment on a long-term, real, proper solution, but for right now emerge --oneshot dev-perl/XML-Parser should at least allow you to continue building colord. Please do not top post. Far worse than top-posting is leaving reams and reams of quoted text in a reply that have nothing to do with your own contribution. I'm repeatedly surprised at how many old-timers forget that. Please snip irrelevancies out. Snipping emails using a mobile phone on a bumpy road doesn't work... If you know of a decent email client for Android that makes it simpler? k9 mail is pretty good, but you still have to deal with the Android touchscreen interface which makes select-delete hard. This may be the actual root of the problem. The other solution is peace, tolerance and understanding on the part of complainers. We can see your mail client and it's not like you are a clueless Web2.0 newbie without street cred. I had to eat humble pie a few years ago and back off and stop being the biggest ass BOFH in the world when folks used a phone. I recommend people do this. One's number of friends goes up :-) I do regularly check the settings for html and bottom posting in k9mail. I had it revert back to (wrong) default a few months back. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On 1 August 2014 19:22:44 CEST, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 01/08/2014 14:44, Tanstaafl wrote: On 8/1/2014 8:42 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: But I don't drive myself when using my mobile. This is on a bus... Lol... sorry, I never ride a bus so didn't consider that possibility... ;) Bus, bus? What is this conveyance of which you speak? In your part of this rock it's usually a big long vehicle with a lot of people inside sitting on hard broken chairs. And some of the passengers opting for a nice view and having the luggage of the other passengers provide some comfort while sitting on the roof (Taken from various movies and documentaries situated in the continent you live in) -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Recommendations for scheduler
On 1 August 2014 19:32:36 CEST, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Up-front disclaimer: Mostly [OT] post. But at least I'll test drive it on Gentoo before putting it in production :-) New job, new environment. Existing persons suffer from 5-year-old-with-a-hammer syndrome and assume cron is the solution to all ills. Result: a towering edifice of cron jobs that may or may not clobber each other's work, may or may not work at all, and implement no error handling at all. But my god, can they spew out mail from STOUT But cron has only one event trigger: wall-clock time. And it's a very blunt weapon. I'm looking for recommendations of alternative schedulers that satisfy real-world business needs that need some other event trigger than what the time is right now. For those familiar with it, I'm looking for something with the useful feature set, without the useless features and without the price tag of ControlM Anyone care to share experiences? I'm also looking for a free alternative. At most of my clients, I see Tivoli Workload Scheduler (TWS) being used a lot. It has most things what you want from an intelligent multi host scheduler. Unfortunately, it also comes with a corresponding price tag. If anyone knows of an OS project with comparable features, please let me know. Failing this, it is on my list to start writing one myself when I get some spare time. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On 1 August 2014 20:17:05 CEST, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon at gmail.com writes: New job, new environment. Existing persons suffer from 5-year-old-with-a-hammer syndrome and assume cron is the solution to all ills. Result: a towering edifice of cron jobs that may or may not clobber each other's work, may or may not work at all, and implement no error handling at all. But my god, can they spew out mail from STOUT Sounds like a department full of computer scientist I inherited a few decades ago... I know nothing bout chronos, but I find it an interesting readymmv. http://nerds.airbnb.com/introducing-chronos/ http://airbnb.github.io/chronos/ https://github.com/airbnb/chronos cheers mate! James Looks interesting. Apart from it requiring a clustered environment (mesos). Unless I misunderstand the part where it says it runs on top of mesos? -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommendations for scheduler
On 1 August 2014 23:02:11 CEST, Martin Vaeth mar...@mvath.de wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: But cron has only one event trigger: wall-clock time. And it's a very blunt weapon. I'm looking for recommendations of alternative schedulers that satisfy real-world business needs that need some other event trigger than what the time is right now. I had a similar need recently, and since the discussion in https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-992780-highlight-.html had led to nothing satisfactory for me, I have written a scheduler tool which serves my needs (which might very well differ from yours...): The corresponding tool is still in beta testing phase: https://github.com/vaeth/schedule/ You can install it from the mv overlay (available over layman). Going to have a look at this soon. What are the features it currently has already and what are you planning on adding? -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Cant compile Openvz sources
On 1 August 2014 23:12:23 CEST, Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 31 July 2014, at 12:49 am, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: include/trace/events/kmem.h:528:1: aviso: se declaró ‘struct address_space’ dentro de la lista de parámetros [activado por defecto] include/trace/events/kmem.h:528:1: aviso: su ámbito es solamente esta definición o declaración, lo cual probablemente no es lo que desea [activado por defecto] More of us may be able to help if you set your language to English and resubmit your error messages. I believe this may be as easy as running `LC_MESSAGES=C make make modules_install` Related: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/87489 Stroller. Apart from rerunning the compile with a default locale like Stroller suggested. Can you also provide the command you used? The error looks similar (based on my very limited understanding of Spanish? ) to parallel build issues. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] What to put in chroot mtab
On 1 August 2014 23:33:05 CEST, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 1, 2014 3:46 PM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On 1 August 2014 15:28:01 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: On Friday 01 August 2014 14:07:08 I wrote: I run a couple of chroots on this box to build packages for other boxes on the LAN. So far, I haven't worked out what I should populate /etc/mtab with in each chroot. Is it enough to grep ext4 /etc/mtab /mnt/chroot/etc/mtab? That catches all the physical partitions, but I imagine I need to add some /proc, /sys and /dev entries as well, but is there a simple formula for doing this? I meant to add that one chroot is 32-bit and the other is 64. The host is an i5 running openrc. It has been a good while since I used this. So, make sure it makes sense to you before trying this. This may not work if something has changed in the past several years. Use with caution if at all. This is a little script, if you want to call it that, that I used to do mine. It also lists the command to use to do a 32 bit chroot from a 64 bit rig. Here it is: root@fireball / # cat /root/xx.chroot-mount-32bit mount -o bind /dev /mnt/gentoo32/dev mount -o bind /dev/pts /mnt/gentoo32/dev/pts mount -o bind /dev/shm /mnt/gentoo32/dev/shm mount -o bind /proc /mnt/gentoo32/proc mount -o bind /proc/bus/usb /mnt/gentoo32/proc/bus/usb mount -o bind /sys /mnt/gentoo32/sys mkdir -p /mnt/gentoo32/usr/portage/ mount -o bind /usr/portage /mnt/gentoo32/usr/portage/ echo mounting finished echo run linux32 chroot /mnt/gentoo32 /bin/bash next root@fireball / # You may have different mount points at the very least so edit to match what you have. Again, things could have changed and that no longer will work. It may not be a bad idea to let someone who has done this more recently to give a thumbs up to that. That last command should be: linux32 chroot /mnt/gentoo32 /bin/bash Dale :-) :-) That script is too long :) cd /mnt/gentoo mount -o rbind /dev dev mount -o rbind /sys sys mount -o rbind /proc proc cp -L /etc/resolv.conf etc/resolv.conf cd .. chroot gentoo /bin/bash To undo: cd /mnt/gentoo umount -l proc sys dev That's still too long :) With systemd-nspawn, you only do: systemd-nspawn -D /mnt/gentoo Systemd takes care of /dev, /sys, etc. If the container has systemd installed, you can do systemd-nspawn -bD /mnt/gentoo and the services inside the container will be started like in a regular boot (you'll need to set the root password for the container). Also, if you want to share the /usr/portage directory between host and container, you only need to systemd-nspawn --bind=/usr/portage -bD /mnt/gentoo Oh, and I forgot: to stop the container, just log out if the container runs OpenRC, or run systemctl poweroff if the container runs systemd. Regards. That script could easily be written in C and compiled and then called in a similar way as systemd-nspawn. What your command does is basically the same apart from doing something different from using chroots. Converting a perfectly working and efficiently running system to use something like systemd just to have a chroot environment is overly complex and convoluted. These solutions often cause more issues then the problem it tried to solve. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Cant compile Openvz sources
On 2 August 2014 01:00:34 CEST, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-08-01 18:33 GMT-03:00 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org: On 1 August 2014 23:12:23 CEST, Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 31 July 2014, at 12:49 am, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: include/trace/events/kmem.h:528:1: aviso: se declaró ‘struct address_space’ dentro de la lista de parámetros [activado por defecto] include/trace/events/kmem.h:528:1: aviso: su ámbito es solamente esta definición o declaración, lo cual probablemente no es lo que desea [activado por defecto] More of us may be able to help if you set your language to English and resubmit your error messages. I believe this may be as easy as running `LC_MESSAGES=C make make modules_install` Sorry. You are rigth. My bad. Related: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/87489 Stroller. Apart from rerunning the compile with a default locale like Stroller suggested. Can you also provide the command you used? I used: make -j12 make modules_install But is the same using make make modules_install Here is the output again. Now in english. Sorry for that :P Can you try building with make -j1 ? In other words, do not use parallel building? -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] What to put in chroot mtab
On 1 August 2014 23:44:11 CEST, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 4:39 PM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On 1 August 2014 23:33:05 CEST, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 1, 2014 3:46 PM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On 1 August 2014 15:28:01 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: On Friday 01 August 2014 14:07:08 I wrote: That's still too long :) With systemd-nspawn, you only do: systemd-nspawn -D /mnt/gentoo Systemd takes care of /dev, /sys, etc. If the container has systemd installed, you can do systemd-nspawn -bD /mnt/gentoo and the services inside the container will be started like in a regular boot (you'll need to set the root password for the container). Also, if you want to share the /usr/portage directory between host and container, you only need to systemd-nspawn --bind=/usr/portage -bD /mnt/gentoo Oh, and I forgot: to stop the container, just log out if the container runs OpenRC, or run systemctl poweroff if the container runs systemd. Regards. That script could easily be written in C and compiled and then called in a similar way as systemd-nspawn. And yet nobody has done it and got it included in most distributions. Because there is no need. If all you need is merge a few lines into a single command, puttincg it into a shell script is quicker and far easier to maintain. What your command does is basically the same apart from doing something different from using chroots. True, but still it's shorter ;) chroot.sh is only 9 characters. Naming the script 'a' would be even shorter. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] What to put in chroot mtab
On 1 August 2014 23:46:00 CEST, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry; I almost missed this. Actually systemd-nspawn does much more than chroot'ing and bind-mounting some dirs; it also runs the container in its own namespace. And it can add virtual networking a lot more stuff. See [1] for details. Regards. [1] http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-nspawn.html Sounds like overkill just to create a chroot to build packages. Is usefull if you want to isolate services into seperate containers. In which case this is just another system partitioning tool merged into the init system. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Cant compile Openvz sources
On 2 August 2014 02:17:28 CEST, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-08-01 21:02 GMT-03:00 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org: On 2 August 2014 01:00:34 CEST, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-08-01 18:33 GMT-03:00 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org: On 1 August 2014 23:12:23 CEST, Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 31 July 2014, at 12:49 am, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: include/trace/events/kmem.h:528:1: aviso: se declaró ‘struct address_space’ dentro de la lista de parámetros [activado por defecto] include/trace/events/kmem.h:528:1: aviso: su ámbito es solamente esta definición o declaración, lo cual probablemente no es lo que desea [activado por defecto] More of us may be able to help if you set your language to English and resubmit your error messages. I believe this may be as easy as running `LC_MESSAGES=C make make modules_install` Sorry. You are rigth. My bad. Related: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/87489 Stroller. Apart from rerunning the compile with a default locale like Stroller suggested. Can you also provide the command you used? I used: make -j12 make modules_install But is the same using make make modules_install Here is the output again. Now in english. Sorry for that :P Can you try building with make -j1 ? In other words, do not use parallel building? Nop. I get the same error. :/ In this case, check bugs.gentoo.org and if nothing there, file a new bug. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] depclean wants to remove all perl?
On Thursday, July 31, 2014 06:48:01 AM Mick wrote: On Thursday 31 Jul 2014 06:14:56 J. Roeleveld wrote: I always check the list from depclean to see if there is any package and/or version that I am actually using. If yes, I add it to the world file. (Emerge --noreplace) I don't add packages to my world file, let alone specific versions, unless I want them to be there. I let portage manage versions and dependencies. That's what I said as well. Please note, I mentioned that I am actually using . This includes: - programs I use - kernel - libraries I need for my own projects - dependencies for software that isn't in the portage tree (I should create a meta-package for those) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flags handling
On Thursday, July 31, 2014 08:34:09 AM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 31/07/2014 03:55, Walter Dnes wrote: On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 10:31:50PM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote Am 30.07.2014 21:48, schrieb Dale: While to me KDE is bloated, I just try to disable what I can and carry on. If my system was limited on resources, then I may use something else. and maybe you did exactly the wrong thing. KDE is very modular and reuses its modules as much as it can. Which also means: memory is only used once. There were once a very good (in my not so humble opinion. It think very highly of myself) comparism here: http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/ (url is dead btw) and if you actually use kde apps in kde - memory consumption is lower than in either gnome or 'leightweight' solutions like xfce or windowmaker+stuff. http://web.archive.org/web/20071229030604/http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/me mo ry/desktop_benchmark.html The problem with KDE apps is that they're imitating what MS did with Internet Explorer. They pointed to the itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeny little ie.exe that you could delete if you felt like doing so. They deliberately obfuscated that it was merely a front end to a ton of system libraries that you could not remove. Back when xpdf was being deprecated, various replacement options were suggested. I chose mupdf rather than the KDE app okular. Here's why. After multiple attempts at emerge -pv okular, I found I had to add at least the following to package.use to get it to work... dev-libs/libattica qt4 media-libs/phonon vlc media-video/vlc dbus xcb -ffmpeg dev-qt/qtcore qt3support dev-qt/qtdeclarative accessibility qt3support dev-qt/qtgui accessibility qt3support dev-qt/qtopengl qt3support dev-qt/qt3support accessibility dev-qt/qtsql qt3support sqlite dev-qt/qtsvg accessibility sys-libs/ncurses unicode Seems that if I want to emerge and use KDE's pdf reader, I need... phonon vlc (or gstreamer) libmpeg libmad net-dns/libidn dev-qt/qtwebkit ...***FOR A STINKING PDF READER***. Here's the emerge -pv okular output with USE flag listings edited out... [d531][waltdnes][~] emerge -pv okular | sed s/USE.*$// These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies done! [ebuild R] sys-libs/ncurses-5.9-r3:5 [ebuild N ] net-dns/libidn-1.28 [ebuild N ] kde-base/kde-env-4.12.5:4/4.12 [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libpcre-8.35:3 [ebuild N ] app-admin/eselect-qtgraphicssystem-1.1.1 0 kB [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qtcore-4.8.5-r2:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qtscript-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qtgui-4.8.5-r3:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qtsql-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qt3support-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qtdbus-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qtsvg-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qttest-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/designer-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qtopengl-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qtxmlpatterns-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] app-crypt/qca-2.0.3:2 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qtwebkit-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] dev-qt/qtdeclarative-4.8.5:4 [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2.2-r1 [ebuild N ] media-libs/libmpeg2-0.5.1-r2 [ebuild N ] media-libs/libmad-0.15.1b-r7 [ebuild N ] media-video/vlc-2.1.2:0/5-7 [ebuild N ] dev-util/automoc-0.9.88 9 kB [ebuild N ] kde-base/oxygen-icons-4.12.5:4/4.12 [ebuild N ] media-libs/qimageblitz-0.0.6-r1 [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libattica-0.4.2 [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libdbusmenu-qt-0.9.2 [ebuild N ] app-misc/strigi-0.7.8 [ebuild N ] media-libs/phonon-4.6.0-r1 [ebuild N ] media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.6.2 [ebuild N ] kde-base/kdelibs-4.12.5-r1:4/4.12 [ebuild N ] kde-base/katepart-4.12.5:4/4.12 [ebuild N ] kde-base/libkexiv2-4.12.5:4/4.12 [ebuild N ] kde-base/okular-4.12.5-r1:4/4.12 Total: 35 packages (34 new, 1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 309,990 kB I'm going to take issue with this post. Walter, you have completely misjudged what KDE is designed to do and are blaming it unfairly. KDE apps are not designed to run in isolation - they run in a greater context. That context is the KDE system. It was designed with the view that an app like okular will be installed alongside other similar apps that let you deal with other filetypes. Like audio, video, graphics, text. And so on. To do this, it needs the libs it is built on. And it needs a graphics toolkit - Qt. The reason you got such a long list of packages to install is because you do not have any Qt installed at all. If you did not have any X installed at all and wanted to emerge xpdf you would get a similar long list for exactly the same reason. The point I'm trying to make is that KDe was not designed with you in mind. KDE could never work for you because of your viewpoint and
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flags handling
Clicked send too soon... On Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:32:34 AM J. Roeleveld wrote: On Thursday, July 31, 2014 08:34:09 AM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 31/07/2014 03:55, Walter Dnes wrote: snipped Seems that if I want to emerge and use KDE's pdf reader, I need... phonon vlc (or gstreamer) libmpeg libmad net-dns/libidn dev-qt/qtwebkit ...***FOR A STINKING PDF READER***. Here's the emerge -pv okular output with USE flag listings edited out... [d531][waltdnes][~] emerge -pv okular | sed s/USE.*$// These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Total: 35 packages (34 new, 1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 309,990 kB I'm going to take issue with this post. Walter, you have completely misjudged what KDE is designed to do and are blaming it unfairly. KDE apps are not designed to run in isolation - they run in a greater context. That context is the KDE system. It was designed with the view that an app like okular will be installed alongside other similar apps that let you deal with other filetypes. Like audio, video, graphics, text. And so on. To do this, it needs the libs it is built on. And it needs a graphics toolkit - Qt. The reason you got such a long list of packages to install is because you do not have any Qt installed at all. If you did not have any X installed at all and wanted to emerge xpdf you would get a similar long list for exactly the same reason. The point I'm trying to make is that KDe was not designed with you in mind. KDE could never work for you because of your viewpoint and that viewpoint is in your sig. So please stop blaming KDE for doing what KDE does correctly and well. Just realise that you are not the target audience. +1 I quite like KDE and it worked quite well on my old netboot (Asus EEE 901 with 16GB SSD and 1GB ram) This worked quite well for me, until the mainboard fried... As an analogy most of the world wants a sedan so Toyota makes the Yaris for them. Actually, because governments are trying to get people to move into smaller cars, car companies ended up with motorised shopping carts like the Yaris. People who actually need to travel a lot on motorways do tend to prefer slightly bigger cars like a VW Golf, Ford Focus or Peugeot 308. People with smaller budgets then end up with the Polo, Fiesta or 208. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flags handling
On 31 July 2014 15:37:51 CEST, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 31/07/2014 12:45, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: So on that box you wouldn't choose a KDE program. Simple. Yes, it was simple. Everything on gentoo is just s simple ;) I think this is the first discussion about desktop environments I've ever seen that hasn't degenerated into a complete flame war. I love this list. Just wait till Neil, me and a few others swing the topic over to WW II fighter aircraft. The flames will start then. Speaking of which... One of my wishlist items is a fully functional B25. Would be great during parties with children around :) -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On 31 July 2014 15:58:17 CEST, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:36:38 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 31/07/2014 15:29, Gevisz wrote: In my today's system update I have got the following error message: * ERROR: x11-misc/colord-1.2.1-r1::gentoo failed (configure phase): * econf failed The actual error message is earlier than this point[1]. Please go through that referenced log, find the error message and report Yes, you are right. Earlier in the colord emege log I have found the following: checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool And even earlier in the emerge log were the following: * Messages for package dev-lang/perl-5.18.2-r1: * UPDATE THE PERL MODULES: * After updating dev-lang/perl you must reinstall * the installed perl modules. * Use: perl-cleaner --all And after running just now # perl-cleaner --all I have got the real trouble. The output is below. Shall I rename the Subject to perl failed to upgrade? # perl-cleaner --all * Beginning a clean up of .ph files * Excluding files for 5.18.2 and 5.18.2/x86_64-linux from cleaning * Locating ph files for removal * Updating ph files. * Ignore all No such file... messages! Can't open machine/ansi.h: No such file or directory Can't open sys/_types.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory * Locating packages for an update * Locating ebuilds linked against libperl * Adding to list: dev-perl/File-DesktopEntry:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-NamespaceSupport:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Authen-SASL:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/OLE-StorageLite:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Digest-Perl-MD5:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-Simple:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Digest-HMAC:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Net-SMTP-SSL:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-SAX-Base:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/File-MimeInfo:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Unicode-Map:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-LibXML:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Locale-gettext:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Crypt-RC4:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/File-BaseDir:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-Parser:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-SAX:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Spreadsheet-ParseExcel:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/IO-stringy:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/IPC-Cmd:0 * virtual/perl-IPC-Cmd:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-CoreList:0 * virtual/perl-Module-CoreList:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/IO:0 * virtual/perl-IO:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/File-Spec:0 * virtual/perl-File-Spec:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/CPAN-Meta:0 * virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-Build:0 * virtual/perl-Module-Build:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/ExtUtils-ParseXS:0 * virtual/perl-ExtUtils-ParseXS:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/version:0 * virtual/perl-version:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Archive-Tar:0 * virtual/perl-Archive-Tar:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-Load:0 * virtual/perl-Module-Load:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Test-Harness:0 * virtual/perl-Test-Harness:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/CPAN-Meta-Requirements:0 * virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta-Requirements:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Compress-Raw-Bzip2:0 * virtual/perl-Compress-Raw-Bzip2:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/IO-Compress:0 * virtual/perl-IO-Compress:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/ExtUtils-MakeMaker:0 * virtual/perl-ExtUtils-MakeMaker:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Parse-CPAN-Meta:0 * virtual/perl-Parse-CPAN-Meta:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Digest-MD5:0 * virtual/perl-Digest-MD5:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/ExtUtils-Manifest:0 * virtual/perl-ExtUtils-Manifest:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-Metadata:0 * virtual/perl-Module-Metadata:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Scalar-List-Utils:0 * virtual/perl-Scalar-List-Utils:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Compress-Raw-Zlib:0 * virtual/perl-Compress-Raw-Zlib:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Params-Check:0 * virtual/perl-Params-Check:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Time-Local:0 * virtual/perl-Time-Local:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/ExtUtils-CBuilder:0 * virtual/perl-ExtUtils-CBuilder:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-Load-Conditional:0 * virtual/perl-Module-Load-Conditional:0 * Adding to
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On 31 July 2014 16:03:09 CEST, Alec Ten Harmsel a...@alectenharmsel.com wrote: I can't comment on a long-term, real, proper solution, but for right now emerge --oneshot dev-perl/XML-Parser should at least allow you to continue building colord. Please do not top post. A long term solution is listed at the bottom of the output from perl-cleaner. On Thu 31 Jul 2014 09:58:17 AM EDT, Gevisz wrote: On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:36:38 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 31/07/2014 15:29, Gevisz wrote: In my today's system update I have got the following error message: * ERROR: x11-misc/colord-1.2.1-r1::gentoo failed (configure phase): * econf failed The actual error message is earlier than this point[1]. Please go through that referenced log, find the error message and report Yes, you are right. Earlier in the colord emege log I have found the following: checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool And even earlier in the emerge log were the following: * Messages for package dev-lang/perl-5.18.2-r1: * UPDATE THE PERL MODULES: * After updating dev-lang/perl you must reinstall * the installed perl modules. * Use: perl-cleaner --all And after running just now # perl-cleaner --all I have got the real trouble. The output is below. Shall I rename the Subject to perl failed to upgrade? # perl-cleaner --all * Beginning a clean up of .ph files * Excluding files for 5.18.2 and 5.18.2/x86_64-linux from cleaning * Locating ph files for removal * Updating ph files. * Ignore all No such file... messages! Can't open machine/ansi.h: No such file or directory Can't open sys/_types.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory * Locating packages for an update * Locating ebuilds linked against libperl * Adding to list: dev-perl/File-DesktopEntry:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-NamespaceSupport:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Authen-SASL:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/OLE-StorageLite:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Digest-Perl-MD5:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-Simple:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Digest-HMAC:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Net-SMTP-SSL:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-SAX-Base:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/File-MimeInfo:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Unicode-Map:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-LibXML:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Locale-gettext:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Crypt-RC4:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/File-BaseDir:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-Parser:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-SAX:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Spreadsheet-ParseExcel:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/IO-stringy:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/IPC-Cmd:0 * virtual/perl-IPC-Cmd:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-CoreList:0 * virtual/perl-Module-CoreList:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/IO:0 * virtual/perl-IO:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/File-Spec:0 * virtual/perl-File-Spec:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/CPAN-Meta:0 * virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-Build:0 * virtual/perl-Module-Build:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/ExtUtils-ParseXS:0 * virtual/perl-ExtUtils-ParseXS:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/version:0 * virtual/perl-version:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Archive-Tar:0 * virtual/perl-Archive-Tar:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-Load:0 * virtual/perl-Module-Load:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Test-Harness:0 * virtual/perl-Test-Harness:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/CPAN-Meta-Requirements:0 * virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta-Requirements:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Compress-Raw-Bzip2:0 * virtual/perl-Compress-Raw-Bzip2:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/IO-Compress:0 * virtual/perl-IO-Compress:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/ExtUtils-MakeMaker:0 * virtual/perl-ExtUtils-MakeMaker:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Parse-CPAN-Meta:0 * virtual/perl-Parse-CPAN-Meta:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Digest-MD5:0 * virtual/perl-Digest-MD5:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/ExtUtils-Manifest:0 * virtual/perl-ExtUtils-Manifest:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-Metadata:0 * virtual/perl-Module-Metadata:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Scalar-List-Utils:0 * virtual/perl-Scalar-List-Utils:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Compress-Raw-Zlib:0 *
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flags handling
On 31 July 2014 16:33:38 CEST, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:16:06 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote: Just wait till Neil, me and a few others swing the topic over to WW II fighter aircraft. The flames will start then. Speaking of which... One of my wishlist items is a fully functional B25. Would be great during parties with children around :) The B25 was a bomber, please try to stay on topic :P Last off topic one about planes in this thread. A model version is fun to drop stuff from for kids to collect after the bombing run -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On 31 July 2014 17:19:20 CEST, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:18:35 +0200 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On 31 July 2014 15:58:17 CEST, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:36:38 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 31/07/2014 15:29, Gevisz wrote: In my today's system update I have got the following error message: * ERROR: x11-misc/colord-1.2.1-r1::gentoo failed (configure phase): * econf failed The actual error message is earlier than this point[1]. Please go through that referenced log, find the error message and report Yes, you are right. Earlier in the colord emege log I have found the following: checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool And even earlier in the emerge log were the following: * Messages for package dev-lang/perl-5.18.2-r1: * UPDATE THE PERL MODULES: * After updating dev-lang/perl you must reinstall * the installed perl modules. * Use: perl-cleaner --all And after running just now # perl-cleaner --all I have got the real trouble. The output is below. Shall I rename the Subject to perl failed to upgrade? # perl-cleaner --all * Beginning a clean up of .ph files * Excluding files for 5.18.2 and 5.18.2/x86_64-linux from cleaning * Locating ph files for removal * Updating ph files. * Ignore all No such file... messages! Can't open machine/ansi.h: No such file or directory Can't open sys/_types.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory Can't open gnu/stubs-x32.h: No such file or directory * Locating packages for an update * Locating ebuilds linked against libperl * Adding to list: dev-perl/File-DesktopEntry:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-NamespaceSupport:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Authen-SASL:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/OLE-StorageLite:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Digest-Perl-MD5:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-Simple:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Digest-HMAC:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Net-SMTP-SSL:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-SAX-Base:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/File-MimeInfo:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Unicode-Map:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-LibXML:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Locale-gettext:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Crypt-RC4:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/File-BaseDir:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-Parser:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/XML-SAX:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/Spreadsheet-ParseExcel:0 * Adding to list: dev-perl/IO-stringy:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/IPC-Cmd:0 * virtual/perl-IPC-Cmd:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-CoreList:0 * virtual/perl-Module-CoreList:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/IO:0 * virtual/perl-IO:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/File-Spec:0 * virtual/perl-File-Spec:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/CPAN-Meta:0 * virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-Build:0 * virtual/perl-Module-Build:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/ExtUtils-ParseXS:0 * virtual/perl-ExtUtils-ParseXS:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/version:0 * virtual/perl-version:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Archive-Tar:0 * virtual/perl-Archive-Tar:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-Load:0 * virtual/perl-Module-Load:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Test-Harness:0 * virtual/perl-Test-Harness:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/CPAN-Meta-Requirements:0 * virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta-Requirements:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Compress-Raw-Bzip2:0 * virtual/perl-Compress-Raw-Bzip2:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/IO-Compress:0 * virtual/perl-IO-Compress:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/ExtUtils-MakeMaker:0 * virtual/perl-ExtUtils-MakeMaker:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Parse-CPAN-Meta:0 * virtual/perl-Parse-CPAN-Meta:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Digest-MD5:0 * virtual/perl-Digest-MD5:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/ExtUtils-Manifest:0 * virtual/perl-ExtUtils-Manifest:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Module-Metadata:0 * virtual/perl-Module-Metadata:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Scalar-List-Utils:0 * virtual/perl-Scalar-List-Utils:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Compress-Raw-Zlib:0 * virtual/perl-Compress-Raw-Zlib:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Params-Check:0 * virtual/perl-Params-Check:0 * Adding to list: perl-core/Time-Local:0
Re: [gentoo-user] colord failed to upgrade
On 31 July 2014 16:19:21 CEST, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:03:09 -0400 Alec Ten Harmsel a...@alectenharmsel.com wrote: I can't comment on a long-term, real, proper solution, but for right now emerge --oneshot dev-perl/XML-Parser should at least allow you to continue building colord. It seems that it helped, but not the suggestions from # perl-cleaner --all output. Thank you. Did you run the commands and then rerun perlcleaner as the output mentions at the end of the text? -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Ideapad-laptop
On 31 July 2014 19:40:07 CEST, Nilesh Govindrajan m...@nileshgr.com wrote: On Wed, 2014-07-30 at 16:32 +0530, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 30-Jul-2014 4:30 pm, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 30 Jul 2014 11:53:25 Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: So I got a new Lenovo G50. I found all the required drivers in kernel itself. Seems to be quite Linux friendly so far (not installed desktop yet). There's one problem though. The kernel module ideapad-laptop which apparently recognizes the hotkey stuff, backlight and some other things doesn't let me use wireless. rfkill shows it's hard blocked. Is there any way to change this? Some Google results tell me that this is related to the WiFi toggle via windows. The machine never contained windows ( I bought it with freedos). I'm not comfortable with opening it to remove CMOS battery as suggested by yet another Google search result. What does 'rfkill enable wlan0' give you? It should be able to override any hotkey setting. -- Regards, Mick The soft block gets removed, but hard block remains, and there's no hardware switch for the same. If I remove the module it works without any problems. I don't really understand the exact purpose of that module. Touchpad, brightness control, sound control, camera, radio everything works out of the box without the module. Except that I'm not able to toggle airplane mode using the hotkey, but that's not a big issue. I am not familiar with that module. But in a long distant past I wrote a module to handle the special keys on an ASUS laptop which were exposed via ACPI. I always assume these modules add support for special keys and settings not handled by any other driver. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] depclean wants to remove all perl?
On 30 July 2014 23:47:19 CEST, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: Having updated some perl packages, I ran perl-cleaner which failed with some blockers, I ran: emerge --deselect --ask $(qlist -IC 'perl-core/*') emerge -uD1a $(qlist -IC 'virtual/perl-*') as advised by perl-cleaner, before I ran perl-cleaner successfully. Following all this depclean give me a lng list of perl packages, but I am reluctant to hit yes, before I confirm that this correct: These are the packages that would be unmerged: perl-core/Module-Load-Conditional selected: 0.540.0 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-ExtUtils-Install selected: 1.590.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-ExtUtils-Command selected: 1.170.0-r5 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Archive-Tar selected: 1.900.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/File-Spec selected: 3.400.0 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Time-Local selected: 1.230.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/CPAN-Meta-Requirements selected: 2.122.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Test-Harness selected: 3.260.0 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Module-Load-Conditional selected: 0.540.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/ExtUtils-ParseXS selected: 3.180.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/IO-Compress selected: 2.60.0 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/CPAN-Meta selected: 2.120.921-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Compress-Raw-Bzip2 selected: 2.60.0 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Parse-CPAN-Meta selected: 1.440.400-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Params-Check selected: 0.360.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Module-Load selected: 0.240.0 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Scalar-List-Utils selected: 1.270.0 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Module-Build selected: 0.400.300-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Compress-Raw-Zlib selected: 2.60.0 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Digest-MD5 selected: 2.520.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-IPC-Cmd selected: 0.800.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/CPAN-Meta-YAML selected: 0.8.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none perl-core/Module-Metadata selected: 1.0.11-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-ExtUtils-Manifest selected: 1.630.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-ExtUtils-ParseXS selected: 3.180.0-r2 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-IO-Zlib selected: 1.100.0-r4 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Test-Harness selected: 3.260.0-r2 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Module-CoreList selected: 3.30.0 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Module-Load selected: 0.240.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Params-Check selected: 0.360.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Compress-Raw-Bzip2 selected: 2.60.0-r2 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Package-Constants selected: 0.20.0-r4 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-File-Temp selected: 0.230.0 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta-Requirements selected: 2.122.0-r2 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Test-Simple selected: 0.980.0-r5 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Digest selected: 1.170.0-r3 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Perl-OSType selected: 1.3.0-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Archive-Tar selected: 1.900.0-r2 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta selected: 2.120.921-r2 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Locale-Maketext-Simple selected: 0.210.0-r4 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Module-Metadata selected: 1.0.11-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-ExtUtils-CBuilder selected: 0.280.210-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-Parse-CPAN-Meta selected: 1.440.400-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-JSON-PP selected: 2.272.20-r1 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta-YAML selected: 0.8.0-r2 protected: none omitted: none virtual/perl-version selected: 0.990.200-r1 protected: none omitted: none All selected packages: virtual/perl-CPAN-Meta-2.120.921-r2 virtual/perl- Package-Constants-0.20.0-r4 perl-core/Compress-Raw-Bzip2-2.60.0 virtual/perl-
Re: [gentoo-user] NFS tutorial for the brain dead sysadmin?
On Sunday, July 27, 2014 08:44:02 PM Kerin Millar wrote: On 27/07/2014 17:55, J. Roeleveld wrote: On 27 July 2014 18:25:24 CEST, Stefan G. Weichinger li...@xunil.at wrote: Am 26.07.2014 04:47, schrieb walt: So, why did the broken machine work normally for more than a year without rpcbind until two days ago? (I suppose because nfs-utils was updated to 1.3.0 ?) The real problem here is that I have no idea how NFS works, and each new version is more complicated because the devs are solving problems that I don't understand or even know about. I double your search for understanding ... my various efforts to set up NFSv4 for sharing stuff in my LAN also lead to unstable behavior and frustration. Only last week I re-attacked this topic as I start using puppet here to manage my systems ... and one part of this might be sharing /usr/portage via NFSv4. One client host mounts it without a problem, the thinkpads don't do so ... just another example ;-) Additional in my context: using systemd ... so there are other (different?) dependencies at work and services started. I'd be happy to get that working in a reliable way. I don't remember unstable behavior with NFS (v2 back then?) when we used it at a company I worked for in the 90s. Stefan I use NFS for filesharing between all wired systems at home. Samba is only used for MS Windows and laptops. Few things I always make sure are valid: - One partition per NFS share - No NFS share is mounted below another one - I set the version to 3 on the clients - I use LDAP for the user accounts to ensure the UIDs and GIDs are consistent. These are generally good recommendations. I'd just like to make a few observations. The problems associated with not observing the first constraint (one filesystem per export) can be alleviated by setting an explicit fsid. Doing so can also help to avoid stale handles on the client side if the backing filesystem changes - something that is very useful in a production environment. Therefore, I tend to start at 1 and increment with each newly added export. For example:- /export/foo *(async,no_subtree_check,fsid=1) /export/foo/bar *(async,no_subtree_check,fsid=2) /export/baz *(async,no_subtree_check,fsid=3) If using NFSv3, I'd recommend using nolock as a mount option unless there is a genuine requirement for locks to be co-ordinated. Such locks are only advisory and are of questionable value. Using nolock simplifies the requirements on both server and client side, and is beneficial for performance. NFSv3/UDP seems to be limited to a maximum read/write block size of 32768 in Linux, which will be negotiated by default. Using TCP, the upper bound will be the value of /proc/fs/nfsd/max_block_size on the server. Its value may be set to 1048576 at the most. NFSv3/TCP is problematic so I would recommend NFSv4 if TCP is desired as a transport protocol. NFSv4 provides a useful uid/gid mapping feature that is easier to set up and maintain than nss_ldap. NFS4 requires all the exports to be under a single foldertree. This is a myth: http://linuxcostablanca.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/nfsv4-myths-and-legends.html. Exports can be defined and consumed in the same manner as with NFSv3. When I originally tried NFSv4, it refused to work unless they were all under the same directory. As I dislike that, I decided against using it. That was a long time ago, will revisit that part again later. Interesting link, I wonder how difficult it will be to combine that with Samba 4 and use the Samba AD structure for NFSv4 with either ZFS or BTRFS underneath. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] NFS tutorial for the brain dead sysadmin?
On 27 July 2014 18:25:24 CEST, Stefan G. Weichinger li...@xunil.at wrote: Am 26.07.2014 04:47, schrieb walt: So, why did the broken machine work normally for more than a year without rpcbind until two days ago? (I suppose because nfs-utils was updated to 1.3.0 ?) The real problem here is that I have no idea how NFS works, and each new version is more complicated because the devs are solving problems that I don't understand or even know about. I double your search for understanding ... my various efforts to set up NFSv4 for sharing stuff in my LAN also lead to unstable behavior and frustration. Only last week I re-attacked this topic as I start using puppet here to manage my systems ... and one part of this might be sharing /usr/portage via NFSv4. One client host mounts it without a problem, the thinkpads don't do so ... just another example ;-) Additional in my context: using systemd ... so there are other (different?) dependencies at work and services started. I'd be happy to get that working in a reliable way. I don't remember unstable behavior with NFS (v2 back then?) when we used it at a company I worked for in the 90s. Stefan I use NFS for filesharing between all wired systems at home. Samba is only used for MS Windows and laptops. Few things I always make sure are valid: - One partition per NFS share - No NFS share is mounted below another one - I set the version to 3 on the clients - I use LDAP for the user accounts to ensure the UIDs and GIDs are consistent. NFS4 requires all the exports to be under a single foldertree. I haven't had any issues in the past 7+ years with this and in the past 5+ years I had portage, distfiles and packages shared. /etc/portage is symlinked to a NFS share as well, allowing me to create binary packages on a single host (inside a chroot) which are then used to update the different machines. If anyone wants a more detailed description of my setup. Let me know and I will try to write something up. Kind regards Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ECC-ram, it is worth it.
On 26 July 2014 20:27:14 CEST, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday 26 Jul 2014 19:23:20 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 26.07.2014 19:58, schrieb Nikos Chantziaras: On 26/07/14 20:39, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: [...] and this, my children, is why I am using ECC ram. I don't really care if the porn I'm watching has one frame with corrupted pixels on it. but you will care when your kernel writes the next file right over the partition boundary. Ooh! Scary! O_O Isn't there some kind of kernel/fs check mechanism that ought to check this doesn't happen? There is. But all that happens in memory... -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
[gentoo-user] Help needed with ebuilds for pear.horde.org
Hi All,
I am trying to create an ebuild for Egroupware 14.1. (released this month)
To find out the dependencies, I am going through the setup check and am stuck
with the following:
**
Checking PEAR pear.horde.org/Horde_Imap_Client (2.16.0) is installed: False
PEAR::Horde_Imap_Client is needed by: EMailAdmin. You can install it by
running: pear channel-discover pear.horde.org ; pear install
pear.horde.org/Horde_Imap_Client
**
If I run those commands, it works, however, I prefer to use ebuilds for the
dependencies.
I tried to create some based on existing ebuilds from the kolab overlay (they
also use the pear.horde.org channel), but even though the install seems to
work, it still isn't found.
I also tried to adjust an existing PEAR ebuild to:
**
# Copyright 1999-2011 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
# $Header: $
inherit php-pear-r1
LICENSE=LGPL-3
SLOT=0
KEYWORDS=amd64
PHP_PEAR_CHANNEL=pear.horde.org
SRC_URI=http://pear.horde.org/get/${PEAR_PN}.tgz;
DEPEND=dev-php/PEAR-Horde_Channel
**
But I am unable to properly change the PEAR-channel.
I am certain I am missing something simple, but my google-fu is coming short.
If anyone is able to point me in the right direction, I would be very
grateful.
--
Joost Roeleveld
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] adobe flash
On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 05:05:43 PM Bill Kenworthy wrote: I have a couple of systems with flash that are always a pain to update because the checksums fail so you have to manually force a manifest rebuild first. As I have to update them anyway, is there a ways to override the portage checksums and say install anyway? Because this package always fails anyway, I cant see any security gain by having a manual update every-time anyway. I would be more interested in finding out why it fails? I use adobe flash myself and never experience a checksum issue with it. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] adobe flash
On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 07:31:35 PM Bill Kenworthy wrote: On 22/07/14 19:03, Dale wrote: J. Roeleveld wrote: On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 05:05:43 PM Bill Kenworthy wrote: I have a couple of systems with flash that are always a pain to update because the checksums fail so you have to manually force a manifest rebuild first. As I have to update them anyway, is there a ways to override the portage checksums and say install anyway? Because this package always fails anyway, I cant see any security gain by having a manual update every-time anyway. I would be more interested in finding out why it fails? I use adobe flash myself and never experience a checksum issue with it. -- Joost . Same here. I have it installed here and don't recall ever having a digest issue. It could be that something is off somewhere. If so, I'd rethink bypassing the checks. Dale :-) :-) Hmm, that's interesting. Caused me to look closer ... I am pulling from http-replicator which doesnt update the package if it cant see a name change (and adobe don't change the name on the package - just the directory its pulled from) so of course it fails checksum. Thanks for the hints to track this down. Sounds like you might have been running a very old version without realising? I personally would consider it a bug in http-replicator that it doesn't take the actual location or filedate into account. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc-2.17 fails and warning: setlocale: LC_ALL error
On 18 July 2014 11:18:27 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: J. Roeleveld wrote: Update: No issues with glibc. I am not doing any parallel builds (eg. default of -j 1 is used) Let me know if you want any files for comparison. -- Joost I tried the same tarball you are using and it still failed. Basically, I unpacked the thing, copied over the portage tree and distfiles and tried to emerge glibc and it failed. It has to be something wrong on my end here. Heck, this last time, I didn't even touch make.conf. I looked to make sure it was set to something sane but didn't need to change anything. I don't need sync servers or mirror servers either since I copy that over. This is weird. Dale :-) :-) I did do a new sync and downloaded the distfiles from the net. Eg. Didn't copy anything from.an existing environment. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc-2.17 fails and warning: setlocale: LC_ALL error
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 06:52:20 AM J. Roeleveld wrote: On 16 July 2014 19:26:39 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Dark Templar wrote: When I reinstalled gcc and glibc, migrating from non-multilib amd64 arch to multilib one, I just unpacked gentoo stage3 into temporary directory, chrooted there, made binary packages out of installed ones (quickpkg name), copied resulted binary packages and their metadata to host system (i.e. moved $chroot/usr/portage/packages into /usr/portage/packages) and installed those binary packages replacing current ones. It's fast (you don't have to build packages from scratch), and it didn't fail me even once, although I heard playing with glibc such way may be dangerous (particularly, downgrading it). I guess it works for other purposes too. I don't like installing from scratch if there is a way to fix it. I don't like that approach 'unpack stage on top of your system', because it will lead to system pollution: a lot of files might be no longer tracked by package manager after that. But that's just my experience and opinion. I hope it can help you. If I can install something as a binary and then get a clean emerge -e system/world out of it, I think it would be OK. Thing is, I'm concerned something is amiss with the stage3 tarball. If that is the case, I want to inform the person that overseas that so it can be fixed. Installing Gentoo is hard enough for someone seasoned but would be a nightmare for someone new to Gentoo. Now to figure out what is the root problem on this thing. Dale :-) :-) Dale. I will try to use the x86 stage3 on a VM today. Will let you know how far I get. -- Joost Update: Using a 32bit VM with current x86 stage3 file, glibc builds succesfully. (On first run) Will do a second emerge -ve @system when this one is finished. I used the following stage file: stage3-i686-20140708.tar.bz2 I have not change anything in /etc/portage -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc-2.17 fails and warning: setlocale: LC_ALL error
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 04:03:34 AM Dale wrote: J. Roeleveld wrote: Update: Using a 32bit VM with current x86 stage3 file, glibc builds succesfully. (On first run) Will do a second emerge -ve @system when this one is finished. I used the following stage file: stage3-i686-20140708.tar.bz2 I have not change anything in /etc/portage -- Joost Sounds good. I'm downloading that one and will try to install it next. Let's hope it was a one time event. Thanks for testing it. 2nd run active, doing it with @world now instead of @system. 211 packages. Only change done to /etc/portage/make.conf: Added FEATURES=buildpkg Will let you know when this run has finished. I should also be able to provide the package-dir to you if needed. Am using the latest stable gentoo-sources (3.12.21-r1) using the default config: # make mrproper # make distclean # make menuconfig (Only unset the 64bit kernel option) # make # make modules_install (This actually worked ;) ) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc-2.17 fails and warning: setlocale: LC_ALL error
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 11:19:36 AM J. Roeleveld wrote: On Thursday, July 17, 2014 04:03:34 AM Dale wrote: J. Roeleveld wrote: Update: Using a 32bit VM with current x86 stage3 file, glibc builds succesfully. (On first run) Will do a second emerge -ve @system when this one is finished. I used the following stage file: stage3-i686-20140708.tar.bz2 I have not change anything in /etc/portage -- Joost Sounds good. I'm downloading that one and will try to install it next. Let's hope it was a one time event. Thanks for testing it. 2nd run active, doing it with @world now instead of @system. 211 packages. Only change done to /etc/portage/make.conf: Added FEATURES=buildpkg Will let you know when this run has finished. I should also be able to provide the package-dir to you if needed. Am using the latest stable gentoo-sources (3.12.21-r1) using the default config: # make mrproper # make distclean # make menuconfig (Only unset the 64bit kernel option) # make # make modules_install (This actually worked ;) ) -- Joost Update: No issues with glibc. I am not doing any parallel builds (eg. default of -j 1 is used) Let me know if you want any files for comparison. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc-2.17 fails and warning: setlocale: LC_ALL error
On 16 July 2014 11:19:20 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Dale wrote: Helmut Jarausch wrote: On 07/16/2014 09:32:31 AM, Dale wrote: I tried this. I unpacked the stage3 tarball just like I would for a new install, in /mnt/gentoo of course. I set it up just enough to where I could try and emerge glibc and just see if it would complete or if it would fail. It failed. It seems to me that while it may be complaining about the kernel version, something else is really the issue. I'm using the latest kernel so it can't be that. I also installed linux-headers and tried again, still failed. What kernel version are you using? On one machine I have strange effects with kernel 3.15.x (including 3.15.5) Portage hangs. Attaching gdb to it one can see that hangs in the glibc call __epoll_wait_nocancel called from pyepoll_poll from PyRun_FileExFlags Just stepping back to 3.14.12 solves the problem. (I do have linux-headers-3.15 installed here) Helmut 3.15.5-gentoo I got a different tarball, going to test that. If it fails, may step back a kernel version and see if that helps. It's faster than re-installing from scratch again. ;-) Dale :-) :-) UPDATE: I downloaded a different stage3 tarball and I think I see progress. It has a couple errors that I had to fix, had to run gcc-config for one, but it looks like glibc is running longer than before. It seems to be compiling now. So, it seems that other tarball has some issues and needs a hammer. Now to figure out if I want to try and use the binary from this new tarball on the current install OR just install Gentoo again from scratch. Dale :-) :-) I would start from scratch. Who knows what else is broken? -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE plasma pager layout indicator
On 16 July 2014 20:26:19 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 16.07.2014 09:07, schrieb Dale: I have noticed something else odd as well. I use folder layout, like KDE3 had, for my KDE desktop setup. When I login to KDE, I have to switch to some other layout then switch back to folder to get my icons to show up. Once in a blue moon, it works as it should but most of the time, I have to go through this to get it to look like I have it set to look. It's a different issue but could have a common cause. It seems some setting/config doesn't get stored properly. Then when we login, we have to undo/redo to get it to work. I have been putting up with my issue for about a year or so. I haven't done any research as to bug reports etc because I'm not real sure what to look for. Could be totally different, could be related. Just thought it worth adding to the pot. ;-) Dale :-) :-) easiest way to test: new user. Copy over config files until problem occurs. I've done that before and it takes way to much time for me. What I may end up doing is just doing a rm on the kde directory. Thing is, even that may not fix the issue. Dale :-) :-) Don't forget the random stuff in ~/.local and maybe also other directories. I tend to keep important files outside my home directory and treat that as just a storage place of config files and browser cache. I have a symlink in my home directory pointing to where the important files are kept to make it quick to find. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Can emerge play a sound on either a successful/unsuccessful build?
On 16 July 2014 18:46:16 CEST, galiza.ce...@gmail.com wrote: J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org writes: On Monday, July 14, 2014 12:46:48 PM Neil Bothwick wrote: I actually have it send an alert to my phone with Posterous but you can do whatever you want. Which Posterous is this? When I google it, I only get information that it actually got shut down after being bought by Twitter. I am looking for a cheap method to get notifications to my mobile phone. I used to use a free SMS service via a company in SA. Maybe Telegram[1] fits your needs. You'd need: - The appropriate client on the phone side. - Telegram CLI [2] on the computer. - A little shell script, such as (usage: script USER MESSAGE) #!/bin/sh /path/to/telegram -B -k /path/to/tg.pub AAA msg $1 $2 safe_quit AAA You could also send logfiles (^msg^send_text, $2 being the path to text file) HTH [1] http://www.telegram.org [2] https://github.com/vysheng/tg -- JOOST This and pushover look interesting. But I also need something that doesn't require a data connection. I am occasionally in places with bad reception and SMS is often still usable. Never mind the cost of maintaining a data connection while roaming. (Receiving SMS is free in any country I care to visit with my contract) I don't mind paying for the service. But it needs to be affordable. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc-2.17 fails and warning: setlocale: LC_ALL error
On 16 July 2014 19:26:39 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Dark Templar wrote: When I reinstalled gcc and glibc, migrating from non-multilib amd64 arch to multilib one, I just unpacked gentoo stage3 into temporary directory, chrooted there, made binary packages out of installed ones (quickpkg name), copied resulted binary packages and their metadata to host system (i.e. moved $chroot/usr/portage/packages into /usr/portage/packages) and installed those binary packages replacing current ones. It's fast (you don't have to build packages from scratch), and it didn't fail me even once, although I heard playing with glibc such way may be dangerous (particularly, downgrading it). I guess it works for other purposes too. I don't like installing from scratch if there is a way to fix it. I don't like that approach 'unpack stage on top of your system', because it will lead to system pollution: a lot of files might be no longer tracked by package manager after that. But that's just my experience and opinion. I hope it can help you. If I can install something as a binary and then get a clean emerge -e system/world out of it, I think it would be OK. Thing is, I'm concerned something is amiss with the stage3 tarball. If that is the case, I want to inform the person that overseas that so it can be fixed. Installing Gentoo is hard enough for someone seasoned but would be a nightmare for someone new to Gentoo. Now to figure out what is the root problem on this thing. Dale :-) :-) Dale. I will try to use the x86 stage3 on a VM today. Will let you know how far I get. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] File timestamps got confused...why?
On Monday, July 14, 2014 04:42:40 PM Dale wrote: Stroller wrote: On Mon, 14 July 2014, at 6:54 pm, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: I am running Gentoo Linux, which I update on a ~daily basis. ... solfire:/home/userfstat smartlog.txt What package provides `fstat`, please? I don't have it installed on this machine, and the first google hit for fstat gentoo suggests it's a BSD command, unavailable on Linux. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-1853116.html#1853116 Stroller. In case you are not aware. I ran up on this ages ago and bookmarked this nifty site. http://www.portagefilelist.de/site/query It seems to show what you posted tho. Sort of. Dale :-) :-) stat is the closest I can find: $ stat notes File: ‘notes’ Size: 89 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 4096 regular file Device: 804h/2052d Inode: 656477 Links: 1 Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 1000/ joost) Gid: ( 100/ users) Access: 2014-07-08 10:00:01.297341996 +0200 Modify: 2014-07-08 10:00:01.297341996 +0200 Change: 2014-07-08 10:00:01.330675330 +0200 Birth: - -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Can emerge play a sound on either a successful/unsuccessful build?
On Monday, July 14, 2014 12:46:48 PM Neil Bothwick wrote: I actually have it send an alert to my phone with Posterous but you can do whatever you want. Which Posterous is this? When I google it, I only get information that it actually got shut down after being bought by Twitter. I am looking for a cheap method to get notifications to my mobile phone. I used to use a free SMS service via a company in SA. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] mysql to postgresql migration
On 15 July 2014 14:55:14 CEST, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Hello, I recently ran across this script: py-mysql2pgsql [1] and this discussion on it's origin [2]. I'm keenly interested in the recommendations of others for migrating mysql databases to postgresql and any comments on this aforementioned script or other methodologies TIA, James [1] https://github.com/philipsoutham/py-mysql2pgsql [2] http://www.tryolabs.com/Blog/2012/02/10/django-migrating-mysql-postgresql/ James, I haven't looked into this recently. But I believe that the DDLs and data can be migrated relatively easy. Just be aware that software specifically written using MySQLs version of SQL is unlikely to work on a different RDBMS without extensive rewrites. This is the biggest problem people are facing when porting websites to use a different database. What is the reason for migrating and what kind of data and applications are you using? -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: mysql to postgresql migration
On 15 July 2014 19:40:14 CEST, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: J. Roeleveld joost at antarean.org writes: I recently ran across this script: py-mysql2pgsql [1] and this discussion on it's origin [2]. I'm keenly interested in the recommendations of others for migrating mysql databases to postgresql and any comments on this aforementioned script or other methodologies [1] https://github.com/philipsoutham/py-mysql2pgsql [2] http://www.tryolabs.com/Blog/2012/02/10/django-migrating-mysql- postgresql/ James, I haven't looked into this recently. But I believe that the DDLs and data can be migrated relatively easy. Just be aware that software specifically written using MySQLs version of SQL is unlikely to work on a different RDBMS without extensive rewrites. So, If you run the same program, say gnucash, on top of mysql, then migrate the mysql dB it to pgsql, it will require an extensive rewrite? Not always. But if the software was written using the non standard SQL that is common when the developers only know MySQL then you are likely to find that the SQL is invalid for other databases. This shouild be an easy example, which is quite common (google). So, let's just say that I run across mysql -- pgsql quite often to the point that it's time for me to develop some slick_skills here. I deal with migrations and integration projects on a daily basis as part of my job. Some are simple. Some require extensive skills and knowledge. This is the biggest problem people are facing when porting websites to use a different database. What is the reason for migrating and what kind of data and applications are you using? Joost Another more serious problem: I'm not porting websites, but more working on science applications with huge data. Some of it is organized via mysql, others are more in the form of vary large test vectors (matricies) that are sparsely populated. Others portions are double float or other forms of scientific data. So in this case there is not a one-2-one semantic. But, I do need to extract (dump?) mysql into a form where I can later include it into a much larger, designed from the ground floor up, pgsql dB. I relaize this sort of effort is unique, but surely some additional slick_tools exist for this sort of effort? The tools that exist to make these things easier require plenty of practice and experience to use properly. For your usecase, if not too often, I would recommend exporting the DDL (all create table/index/ statements) and export the table contents to CSV files (with headers to ensure data goes back to correct columns) -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] media-gfx/blender-2.71 dependencies
On 9 July 2014 07:18:27 CEST, Dan O. d...@redchops.com wrote: I don't believe you pasted everything you meant to. That paste doesn't show what packages would need to be emerged. Please do not top post. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: media-gfx/blender-2.71 dependencies
On 10 July 2014 13:41:36 CEST, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/07/2014 12:11, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 11:48:47 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Not so much slipping, more like new job, new employer. It used to go like this: Q: Alan, can I ... insert something stupid here? A: No. Because I said so. Now piss off. I don't have quite the same street credd here yet, so now it's more like: Q: Alan, can I ... insert something stupid here? A: I don't recommend that because ... insert some politely worded well-thought out rationale here There must be some substantial benefits to compensate for all that tongue-biting :) Oh yes, there's a benefit all right. I'm now back in a place I was 3 years OK: When I go home at night, I don't suffer from an over-powering urge to murder my kids, dogs, wife and generally visit havoc and destruction on all humanity. My wife says I'm a nice guy again. She didn't like living with that imposter. That is a very good benefit. I only feel like getting rid of everyone except my family. :) -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Networkmanager on uclibc Gentoo system x86
On Wednesday, July 09, 2014 08:03:55 AM microcai wrote: 2014-07-09 0:49 GMT+08:00 João Jerónimo joao.jeronimo...@gmail.com: Hello. I installed the uclibc stage3 tarball no a x86 machine (I chose uclibc because the PC has only 256 MB of RAM). I'm currently trying to install glibc is fine with 256M, trying to use uclibc does not magically reduce the memory footprint. NetworkManager, but I ran into a problem, which is: NetworkManager needs 'policykit' USE flag to be applyed to consolekit package. This pulls-in policykit package as a dependency of consolekit, which in turn doesn't compile because it calls some funcions that uclibc doesn't implement. Can't I install networkmanager in uclibc systems, then? consolekit is not maintained anymore. try use systemd instead. It still works, please don't turn this into another You have to switch to systemd thread. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] About the time sync with Windows and Gentoo
On Tuesday, July 08, 2014 02:45:41 PM taozhijiang wrote: Hi, all I have installed dual OSes on my laptop: Microsoft Windows 7 and Gentoo. But I can not sync the time with the different OSes. By default, Windows shows the right time, but Gentoo failed, how to setup the system to fix the problem described above. I am in the Zone UTC+8, China/Beijing. Please check the hwclock configuration: ** # cat /etc/conf.d/hwclock # Set CLOCK to UTC if your Hardware Clock is set to UTC (also known as # Greenwich Mean Time). If that clock is set to the local time, then # set CLOCK to local. Note that if you dual boot with Windows, then # you should set it to local. clock=UTC ** In other words: Set the BIOS clock to the local time. Set the following in the /etc/conf.d/hwclock file: clock=local Also, ensure that MS Windows does the clock-changes between summer and winter time (if that exists where you live). -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] About the time sync with Windows and Gentoo
On Tuesday, July 08, 2014 03:27:45 AM Michael Cook wrote: On 07/08/2014 03:04 AM, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Tuesday, July 08, 2014 02:45:41 PM taozhijiang wrote: Hi, all I have installed dual OSes on my laptop: Microsoft Windows 7 and Gentoo. But I can not sync the time with the different OSes. By default, Windows shows the right time, but Gentoo failed, how to setup the system to fix the problem described above. I am in the Zone UTC+8, China/Beijing. Please check the hwclock configuration: ** # cat /etc/conf.d/hwclock # Set CLOCK to UTC if your Hardware Clock is set to UTC (also known as # Greenwich Mean Time). If that clock is set to the local time, then # set CLOCK to local. Note that if you dual boot with Windows, then # you should set it to local. clock=UTC ** In other words: Set the BIOS clock to the local time. Set the following in the /etc/conf.d/hwclock file: clock=local Also, ensure that MS Windows does the clock-changes between summer and winter time (if that exists where you live). -- Joost It's actually recommended for dual booting with Windows Vista+ to set Windows to UTC rather than setting Linux to local (Windows XP and earlier apparently don't play nicely/can't be set to UTC) This should tell you how: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/time#UTC_in_Windows Thank you for this. I don't often boot into MS Windows and deal with the change in clock when I get back into Linux afterwards. This should solve that :) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Networkmanager on uclibc Gentoo system x86
On 8 July 2014 18:49:19 CEST, João Jerónimo joao.jeronimo...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. I installed the uclibc stage3 tarball no a x86 machine (I chose uclibc because the PC has only 256 MB of RAM). I'm currently trying to install NetworkManager, but I ran into a problem, which is: NetworkManager needs 'policykit' USE flag to be applyed to consolekit package. This pulls-in policykit package as a dependency of consolekit, which in turn doesn't compile because it calls some funcions that uclibc doesn't implement. Can't I install networkmanager in uclibc systems, then? Thanks. JJ Didn't check the ebuilds, but with what you described. I don't think you can use NetworkManager with uclibc. Apart from that. With only 256MB memory. I would be reluctant to use tools with large dependencies. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] media-gfx/freecad-0.13.1830-r1 faild to compile
On 2 July 2014 13:05:11 CEST, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/07/2014 03:30, List Reader wrote: Hi! I have been trying to install media-gfx/freecad for a while, but I can't understand the build log. emerge -pqv =media-gfx/freecad-0.13.1830-r1 http://bpaste.net/show/426786/ emerge --info =media-gfx/freecad-0.13.1830-r1 http://bpaste.net/show/426793/ cat /var/tmp/portage/media-gfx/freecad-0.13.1830-r1/temp/build.log http://bpaste.net/show/426800/ Thank you Use of pasties here are frowned upon here (they go away whereas the list posting persists) Just copy the relevant portion of the log (not all of it!) and paste it in-line. That's what folks here are used to. Or simply attach it as a text file if you don't know what is the relevant part. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%
On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 06:52:10 AM Mick wrote: On Sunday 29 Jun 2014 13:05:04 Rich Freeman wrote: On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: What if I copied data to the drive until it was just about full. I'm thinking like maybe 90 or 95% or so. If I do that and run the test every few days, would it then catch a error after a few weeks or so of testing? I realize no one knows with 100% certainty... As you already said, nobody knows with 100% certainty. In the failures I've experienced I'd expect it to start catching errors within a few days. However, on those drives the relocated sector count never increases, which suggests that the firmware never relocated those sectors when overwritten, which seems brain-dead to me. If the drive relocates the sectors, then conceivably it could go quite a long time until having errors, probably in an entirely different set of sectors. Even if it doesn't relocate, the reliability of the bad sectors could be high or low. Rich What triggers a relocation? I also have a drive which shows a sector relocation pending, but for a few days now and after some tests that showed no errors, it won't relocate it. I think a write to that sector should force a relocation. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%
On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 11:06:59 AM Helmut Jarausch wrote: On 07/01/2014 10:58:45 AM, Dale wrote: Helmut Jarausch wrote: On 07/01/2014 10:30:44 AM, Dale wrote: I been wanting to get me something external but hadn't got around to looking yet. I didn't know they have a SATA version. I plan to avoid USB if I can. From my understanding, eSATA can be hotplugged and I have a couple of those connections. I 'believe' that eSATA is dead - just look how few products are available. I have 3 USB-3 drives which are very fast (more than 100 MB/sec) and if your motherboard doesn't have an USB-3 adapter, yet, it's very cheap. Helmut I do have a few USB3 connectors. I just figured USB would be a good bit slower. Plus, can USB power a 3.5 hard drive nowadays? Probably not. All of my external USB3 disks have a separate power supply. I only know of 2.5 USB-drivers that are powered via the same USB-cable. Never seen 3.5 ones that are USB-powered. I use 2.5 drives for my backups, as they are designed for laptop use, I have the feeling they are a bit more robust when it comes to accidental bumps. root@fireball / # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb /dev/sdb: Timing cached reads: 6604 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3303.39 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 542 MB in 3.01 seconds = 180.33 MB/sec root@fireball / # Try a real life example like dd. I have seen the above mentioned speed on disks with a file system on it which does limit the speed anyway. +1 -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%
On Tuesday, July 01, 2014 04:21:45 AM Dale wrote: J. Roeleveld wrote: root@fireball / # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb /dev/sdb: Timing cached reads: 6604 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3303.39 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 542 MB in 3.01 seconds = 180.33 MB/sec root@fireball / # Try a real life example like dd. I have seen the above mentioned speed on disks with a file system on it which does limit the speed anyway. +1 -- Joost I watched the dd process when I was erasing the old drive. I got about the same results. It started out a little over 200 and went as low as 170 or so close to the end. On average, about what hdparm shows. Close enough it seems. ;-) Yep, but do the same after adding a filesystem to the mix? Eg. mount it somewhere, then dd to a file on that drive. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Cross system dependencies
On Saturday, June 28, 2014 09:23:17 PM thegeezer wrote: On 06/28/2014 07:06 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Saturday, June 28, 2014 01:39:41 PM Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:36:11 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote: I need a way to add dependencies to services which are provided by different servers. For instance, my mail server uses DNS to locate my LDAP server which contains the mail aliases. All these are running on different machines. Currently, I manually ensure these are all started in the correct sequence, I would like to automate this to the point where I can start all 3 servers at the same time and have the different services wait for the dependency services to be available even though they are on different systems. All the dependency systems in the init-systems I could find are all based on dependencies on the same server. Does anyone know of something that can already provide this type of dependencies? Or do I need to write something myself? With systemd you can add ExecStartPre=/some/script to the service's unit file where /some/script waits for the remote services to become available, and possibly return an error if the service does not become available within a set time. That method works for any init-system and writing a script to check and if necessary fail is my temporary fall-back plan. I was actually hoping for a method that can be used to monitor availability and, if necessary, stop services when the dependencies disappear. -- Joost the difficulty is in identifying failed services. local network issue / load issue could mean your services start bouncing. the best way is to have redundancy so it doesn't matter as much I know that. A proper system for this would have a configurable amount of retries with a wait-time in between. having said all of that:: systemd will start servers and buffer network activity - how this works for non local services would be interesting to see. It would, but I am not going to migrate my servers to something like systemd without a clear and proven advantage. For me, that currently does not exist. It also would not work as not all the software I run will happily wait while the rest of the stack starts. I would end up in a bigger mess thanks to timeout issues during startup. with openrc : you could on the DNS server have a service which is just a batch script that uses watches for pid / program path in ps which outputs ACK or NAK to a file in an NFS share say /nfs/monitoring/dns Yes, but in order to access the NFS share, I need DNS to be running. Chicken- egg problem. then on the mail server you could have a service that polls /nfs/monitoring/dns for NAK or ACK you can then choose to have this service directly start your dependent services, or if you adjust /etc/init.d/postfix to have depends = mymonitorDNS which is an empty shell of a service. your watchdog service could stop / start the empty shell of a script mymonitorDNS, and then postfix depends on mymonitorDNS this would save you from i've just stopped the mail server for maintenance and my watchdogservice has just restarted it due to a NAKACK event That is the problem I have with these watchdog services. During boot, I want it to wait. But it needs to understand not to start a service when I stopped it during runtime. Otherwise it could prevent a clean shutdown as well... or... you could have a central master machine which has it's own services, watchdog and monitor... i.e. /etc/init.d/thepostfixserver start / depends on thednsserver which just runs # ssh postfixserver '/etc/init.d/postfix start' or... puppet and it's kin Last time I looked at puppet, it seemed too complex for what I need. I will recheck it again. Thanks, Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Cross system dependencies
On Sunday, June 29, 2014 09:35:33 AM Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 08:55:41 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote: or... puppet and it's kin Last time I looked at puppet, it seemed too complex for what I need. I will recheck it again. What about something like monit? Hmm... I looked into that before, don't recall why I didn't look into it properly before. Just had a look on the website, it looks usable, will need to check this. Will also replace nagios at the same time, which I find ok, but don't really like it. I might open a new thread at a later stage when I get round to trying it. Thanks, Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!
On Sunday, June 29, 2014 09:46:12 AM Peter Humphrey wrote: On Saturday 28 June 2014 11:25:10 Dale wrote: J. Roeleveld wrote: On 28 June 2014 16:54:52 CEST, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: It's Wakes Week here and we've just had a triple fly-by by a Hurricane from the Battle of Britain Commemorative Flight. Last Saturday it was a Spitfire. Yoo-hoo! I think I can just about remember the sound of those magnificent beasts from the 40s Apologies to those of a more serious disposition. Pictures or it didn't happen :) Seriously. If you do happen to be able to take pictures and/or videos. I would love a copy. -- Joost +1 Here's the Spitfire run. Hurricane to follow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuVn7R4AcY Thank you! :)
Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!
On 29 June 2014 18:38:11 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: Of course! I missed the Spitfire, so I don't know how high it flew, but the Hurricane sound from no more than a couple of hundred feet or so was among the two or three most impressive of my life. Both planes have V12 Rolls-Royce Merlin engines (I think). As each cylinder fired, the sound pressure went up extremely fast at the start of the exhaust beat, suggesting huge exhaust valves, and the deep-throated roar was ... just ... beyond description. The only engine to come close was an extraordinary 1/3 scale model of a nine- cylinder radial aero-engine I saw years ago at a national model engineering exhibition. The crankshaft was anchored to the frame, and the entire engine and prop rotated around it. That's what you call air-cooling! Absolutely fantastic when he fired it up once an hour or so! Yep. Some of those prop engines are very powerful, maybe not so efficient tho. Anyway, they sure do make some noise even if the engine is small. I don't think they have mufflers or if they do, it isn't much of one. I also think they burn methanol or something too. I'm not sure and it may even vary from one engine to another. I don't think they burn plain old gas like cars. If you are talking about model engines. The bigger ones run normal petrol, just like cars, lawn mowers, chain saws,. I live about 4 or 5 miles from a air force base here. We have mostly training type planes that fly over us but on occasion, we have something really big here. We have even had the space shuttle land there a few times. The B2 bombers have been there as well. Sounds like a good place to live! That's not Edwards, is it? I drove up to the gates once to see what they'd say. They were actually quite polite. I'm close to Columbus Air Force base in Mississippi. It has a huge runway. It is one reason the space shuttle lands here. It takes a long runway to land and take off when carrying that thing. I say space shuttle, it's mounted on the back of a 747 I think. What's more neat tho is the big bombers. My Dad several decades ago was doing a contract job at the base. For some reason they had the really big bombers out there with armed military guards everywhere. They wouldn't let anyone even near those things. He could see them real good tho. He said it looked like death, just plain death. Later on my Dad found out it was loaded up with bombs that they were moving somewhere else. Death was more accurate than he thought. I have heard some of the large planes when they start their engines and like I said, I'm several miles away and it is loud. Video just can't give you that even with a good sub-woofer. Even that wouldn't help much, I think. You'd need something that can handle an extremely rapid wave-front and high volumes. As you said - you had to be there. Yep, speakers can only do so much. Thanks for the link. My pleasure. I don't know when we'll get the Hurricane one - the man with the camera just put a two-word entry on Twitter this morning: Hashtag HEADACHE Oooops. Dale :-) :-) -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
[gentoo-user] Cross system dependencies
Hi all, This is something I have been looking for for a while now, but not found anything easily usable yet. I need a way to add dependencies to services which are provided by different servers. For instance, my mail server uses DNS to locate my LDAP server which contains the mail aliases. All these are running on different machines. Currently, I manually ensure these are all started in the correct sequence, I would like to automate this to the point where I can start all 3 servers at the same time and have the different services wait for the dependency services to be available even though they are on different systems. All the dependency systems in the init-systems I could find are all based on dependencies on the same server. Does anyone know of something that can already provide this type of dependencies? Or do I need to write something myself? I have been unable to locate anything via Google, but I might be using the wrong search words. Many thanks, Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!
On 28 June 2014 16:54:52 CEST, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: It's Wakes Week here and we've just had a triple fly-by by a Hurricane from the Battle of Britain Commemorative Flight. Last Saturday it was a Spitfire. Yoo-hoo! I think I can just about remember the sound of those magnificent beasts from the 40s Apologies to those of a more serious disposition. Pictures or it didn't happen :) Seriously. If you do happen to be able to take pictures and/or videos. I would love a copy. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Cross system dependencies
On Saturday, June 28, 2014 01:39:41 PM Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:36:11 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote: I need a way to add dependencies to services which are provided by different servers. For instance, my mail server uses DNS to locate my LDAP server which contains the mail aliases. All these are running on different machines. Currently, I manually ensure these are all started in the correct sequence, I would like to automate this to the point where I can start all 3 servers at the same time and have the different services wait for the dependency services to be available even though they are on different systems. All the dependency systems in the init-systems I could find are all based on dependencies on the same server. Does anyone know of something that can already provide this type of dependencies? Or do I need to write something myself? With systemd you can add ExecStartPre=/some/script to the service's unit file where /some/script waits for the remote services to become available, and possibly return an error if the service does not become available within a set time. That method works for any init-system and writing a script to check and if necessary fail is my temporary fall-back plan. I was actually hoping for a method that can be used to monitor availability and, if necessary, stop services when the dependencies disappear. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!
On Saturday, June 28, 2014 10:33:05 PM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 28/06/2014 16:54, Peter Humphrey wrote: It's Wakes Week here and we've just had a triple fly-by by a Hurricane from the Battle of Britain Commemorative Flight. Last Saturday it was a Spitfire. You have an actual flying Spitfire nearby? Wow! I thought Evelyn was the last airworthy model left anywhere. For those who don't know, Evelyn was a Mk IXe and spent years in a kid's playground in Pretoria (the city I grew up in) before someone started restoring her in the late 60s. She was rebuilt at Zwartkop Air Force Base (where I spent time as an apprentice) and stored at Lanseria Airport (where I've spent many a happy hour drinking fine wares at the restaurant above the apron). Last I heard, she was sold and ended up in Brazil... Considering there are companies selling flights in them: http://flywithaspitfire.com/ http://tigerairways.co.uk/spitfire-flights.html (from this one: To the best of our information there are about 50 Spitfires currently flying Worldwide. Of these only five are two-seaters (converted Mark 9’s), three in the UK and two in the USA) Never mind that there are quite a few scale models flying around :) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] [Way OT] Tally ho!
On Sunday, June 29, 2014 12:18:06 AM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 28/06/2014 22:44, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Saturday, June 28, 2014 10:33:05 PM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 28/06/2014 16:54, Peter Humphrey wrote: It's Wakes Week here and we've just had a triple fly-by by a Hurricane from the Battle of Britain Commemorative Flight. Last Saturday it was a Spitfire. You have an actual flying Spitfire nearby? Wow! I thought Evelyn was the last airworthy model left anywhere. For those who don't know, Evelyn was a Mk IXe and spent years in a kid's playground in Pretoria (the city I grew up in) before someone started restoring her in the late 60s. She was rebuilt at Zwartkop Air Force Base (where I spent time as an apprentice) and stored at Lanseria Airport (where I've spent many a happy hour drinking fine wares at the restaurant above the apron). Last I heard, she was sold and ended up in Brazil... Considering there are companies selling flights in them: http://flywithaspitfire.com/ http://tigerairways.co.uk/spitfire-flights.html (from this one: To the best of our information there are about 50 Spitfires currently flying Worldwide. Of these only five are two-seaters (converted Mark 9’s), three in the UK and two in the USA) Never mind that there are quite a few scale models flying around :) I reckon I was told only airworthy Spitfire in the world when it was actually onl airworthy Spitfire in Africa Typical :) I suppose that's what happens when you don't fact-check. That'll teach me :-) Yep, that should teach you :P Btw, I do not have all the info, but it could be that they meant last one of that particular model. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%
On 25 June 2014 07:05:03 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
J. Roeleveld wrote:
On 25 June 2014 01:09:03 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:
Howdy,
I run this test every once in a while. How bad is this:
root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc
smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local
build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
www.smartmontools.org
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_DescriptionStatus Remaining
LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Extended offlineCompleted: read failure 60%
16365 2905482560
# 2 Extended offlineCompleted: read failure 60%
16352 2905482560
# 3 Extended offlineCompleted without error 00%
8044 -
# 4 Extended offlineCompleted without error 00%
3121 -
And better yet, is there any way to tell it to not use that part and
finish the test? It seems it stopped when it got to that, or I
think
it
did.
Thoughts?
Dale
:-) :-)
Dale,
Not sure how to get it to go past. Think that is in the firmware of
the disk.
I would start with making a backup first.
--
Joost
That's a 3TB drive. I don't have anything big enough to back it up to.
Is there anyway to find out if this error is really serious or just a
run of the mill type error? I would think that if it was a run of the
mill error the drive would handle the error itself and I wouldn't even
see it. Something like marking the area as bad and just not trying to
use it anymore, even for the test.
Thanks. Any advice is appreciated. I need a hard drive guru. ;-)
Here is additional info:
root@fireball / # hdparm -i /dev/sdc
/dev/sdc:
Model=ST3000DM001-9YN166, FwRev=CC4C, SerialNo=Z1F0PKT5
Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw15uSec Fixed DTR10Mbs RotSpdTol.5% }
RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=unknown, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16
CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=5860533168
IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
PIO modes: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
AdvancedPM=yes: unknown setting WriteCache=enabled
Drive conforms to: unknown: ATA/ATAPI-4,5,6,7
* signifies the current active mode
root@fireball / #
Dale
:-) :-)
There are some options with smartctl you could try to force the drive to swap
that bad sector with a spare one.
A full disk read could also force that. Eg. Try ' dd if=/dev/sdc of=/dev/null '.
But, I usually order a replacement when Smart tests start throwing errors.
I know 3TB is a lot for you to have to backup, but it's also a lot of data to
loose...
--
Joost
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%
On Wednesday, June 25, 2014 01:44:23 PM Rich Freeman wrote: On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann ANY hard drive can fail the day after you buy it, a month after you buy it, and so on, though obviously the probability of a particular drive failing at any point in time may vary by what you pay for it. or if it was meant to be used the way you use it. Like I said, I'm certainly interested in any actual data that supports that drives sold to run 24x7 last any longer than desktop drives when run 24x7. Not hard data, but while still using desktop drives, I had a drive failure on average once or twice a year. Now with enterprise 24x7 drives, the failure rate has dropped to 1 in the past 3 years. That is, for both, using proper UPS equipment. Additionally, I noticed a definite speed increase after switching to enterprise disks. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] smartctrl drive error @60%
On 25 June 2014 01:09:03 CEST, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Howdy, I run this test every once in a while. How bad is this: root@fireball / # smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [x86_64-linux-3.14.0-gentoo] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_DescriptionStatus Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Extended offlineCompleted: read failure 60% 16365 2905482560 # 2 Extended offlineCompleted: read failure 60% 16352 2905482560 # 3 Extended offlineCompleted without error 00% 8044 - # 4 Extended offlineCompleted without error 00% 3121 - And better yet, is there any way to tell it to not use that part and finish the test? It seems it stopped when it got to that, or I think it did. Thoughts? Dale :-) :-) Dale, Not sure how to get it to go past. Think that is in the firmware of the disk. I would start with making a backup first. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] chown - not permited
On 10 June 2014 21:33:28 CEST, Joseph syscon...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/10/14 22:50, the wrote: On 06/10/14 22:37, Joseph wrote: I mount USB stick form camera and I can not change ownership (I'm login as root) drwxr-xr-x 9 root root 32768 Nov 18 2013 DCIM -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4 Nov 21 2013 _disk_id.pod drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 32768 Aug 14 2013 LOST.DIR I can read and write another USB stick but others I can not. How to control it? What filesystem does it contain and what mount options are you using? Depending on the filesystem it can be possible to mount with user/group permissions. One USB stick was ext2 the other was dos file system. I have problem with dos. I have commentd out in fstab: /dev/sdb1 /media/stickautonoauto,rw,user0 0 and let udisks mange it. It works. Except that now I have ugly long names, for ext2 I get: /run/media/joseph/2f5fc53e-4f4c-4e74-b9c4-fca316b47fea for dos I get: /run/media/joseph/3136-3934 with fstab entry they all were mounted under: /media/stick Joseph. If you give the filesystem a Label. Then udisks will use that instead of the UUID string. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] postgresql-9.1 start - ERROR
On Monday, June 09, 2014 10:12:25 PM Joseph wrote: On 06/09/14 22:08, Joseph wrote: After upgrade when I try to start postgresql I get error: /etc/init.d/postgresql-9.1 start * Starting PostgreSQL ... * start-stop-daemon: did not create a valid pid in `/var/lib/postgresql/9.1/data/postmaster.pid' * Check the log for a possible explanation of the above error. * /var/lib/postgresql/9.1/data/postmaster.log [ !! ] * ERROR: postgresql-9.1 failed to start What is is looking for? more information from: /var/lib/postgresql/9.1/data/postmaster.log LOG: database system was shut down at 2014-06-08 09:05:33 MDT LOG: database system is ready to accept connections LOG: autovacuum launcher started WARNING: pgstat wait timeout WARNING: pgstat wait timeout LOG: received smart shutdown request LOG: autovacuum launcher shutting down LOG: shutting down LOG: database system is shut down FATAL: exceeded maxAllocatedDescs (16) while trying to open directory /usr/share/zoneinfo FATAL: exceeded maxAllocatedDescs (16) while trying to open directory /usr/share/zoneinfo FATAL: exceeded maxAllocatedDescs (16) while trying to open directory /usr/share/zoneinfo FATAL: exceeded maxAllocatedDescs (16) while trying to open directory /usr/share/zoneinfo Joseph, Known issue. It is unclear if the issue is with PostgeSQL or timezone data or how Gentoo packages it. See bug: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=486556 I see 3 possible solutions: 1) Upgrade to PostgreSQL 9.2 2) Downgrade timezone-data to: sys-libs/timezone-data-2013c 3) manually delete the problematic symlink: /usr/share/zoneinfo/posix I have NOT tested any of these options myself. It is up to you to test this on your system. I think options 1 or 2 have the least amount of risk. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] What's with foomatic-filters and cups-filters?
Are you still here, still listening? Ye gods, this mail is 5x longer than I thought it would be. I personally have given up on printing period. I either randomly hit useful looking buttons in KDE's config widget hoping it will work, or at work I print to PDF, put it on a USB dongle and wander over to my wife's desk saying please print this on your windows machine. I usually get printing working from Linux before I get it working on MS Windows. Then again. Some printers accept a USB stick with PDFs and can print them natively. Those aren't too expensive either. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] problems with performance when booted using systemd
On Friday, June 06, 2014 01:59:18 AM cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. I am having some strange performance problems when booted under systemd. These problems happened a little bit under openrc, but are much more pronounced with systemd. I don't think it's necessarily systemd itself, just a setting that systemd does differently then openrc. See below for more. I am using just virtual consoles, no gui whatsoever at the moment. I also use tmux with 4 windows in one of the vcs. My system is an i7 processor, quod core and 16g of ram and 2g of swap space which appears not to be used. I am using uvesafb for the console, so I get 64x160 screens. Sounds similar to my laptop, except I run KDE and got 16g of swap (for hibernate) The first problem is that if I don't press any keystrokes for several minutes and then want to move to another vc, it takes about 3 or 4 seconds after the alt-left arrow or alt-right arrow command to take effect. Even within the same vt, if I don't do anything for several minutes, it takes several seconds till the keystroke echoes and something happens. Once I have done this, things act normally, but its kind of annoying. Sounds like a powersave setting. I used to get the same on my old laptop with spinning rust. SSDs tend to spin-up a lot quicker. Also, my load average seems to always be 1. I have looked at top and things seem to be OK, except that my cpu usage is like this: Tasks: 934 total, 2 running, 931 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie %Cpu(s): 12.5 us, 1.2 sy, 0.0 ni, 86.0 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem: 16450248 total, 9678656 used, 6771592 free, 1084088 buffers KiB Swap: 2097148 total,4 used, 2097144 free. 1147688 cached Mem PID USER PR NIVIRTRESSHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 9969 root 20 0 708 16 0 R 100.0 0.0 1549:10 v86d 579 root 30 10 0 0 0 S 9.1 0.0 16:09.93 speakup 11789 root 20 0 22524 2388 1116 R 0.7 0.0 0:00.03 top 7 root 0 -20 0 0 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:10.41 kworker/u:0H and onward ... This is an awful lot of tasks, I have never seen so many! That is a lot, I am currently running KDE, firefox and a citrix remote desktop thing. (oh, and skype and kopete and a few other items) KDE is installed with semantic-desktop, but the nepomuk stuff is disabled in system-settings. I have 200 tasks (yes, nice round figure) Anyone have any ideas? Thanks much. For the amount of tasks, check that you are not starting too many unneeded services. For the load-average of 1, shouldn't be too much of an issue, had similar in the past with a lot of stuff running and slow disks. For the freezing, I would suggest checking all the powersave options, especially the ones for the harddrives. Is there anything in the logs when this happens? Eg. check the logs right after the system becomes responsible again, maybe there is a hint there what is causing this. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] problems with performance when booted using systemd
On Friday, June 06, 2014 03:45:17 AM cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Friday, June 06, 2014 01:59:18 AM cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. I am having some strange performance problems when booted under systemd. These problems happened a little bit under openrc, but are much more pronounced with systemd. I don't think it's necessarily systemd itself, just a setting that systemd does differently then openrc. See below for more. I am using just virtual consoles, no gui whatsoever at the moment. I also use tmux with 4 windows in one of the vcs. My system is an i7 processor, quod core and 16g of ram and 2g of swap space which appears not to be used. I am using uvesafb for the console, so I get 64x160 screens. Sounds similar to my laptop, except I run KDE and got 16g of swap (for hibernate) The first problem is that if I don't press any keystrokes for several minutes and then want to move to another vc, it takes about 3 or 4 seconds after the alt-left arrow or alt-right arrow command to take effect. Even within the same vt, if I don't do anything for several minutes, it takes several seconds till the keystroke echoes and something happens. Once I have done this, things act normally, but its kind of annoying. Sounds like a powersave setting. I used to get the same on my old laptop with spinning rust. SSDs tend to spin-up a lot quicker. Also, my load average seems to always be 1. I have looked at top and things seem to be OK, except that my cpu usage is like this: Tasks: 934 total, 2 running, 931 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie %Cpu(s): 12.5 us, 1.2 sy, 0.0 ni, 86.0 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem: 16450248 total, 9678656 used, 6771592 free, 1084088 buffers KiB Swap: 2097148 total,4 used, 2097144 free. 1147688 cached Mem PID USER PR NIVIRTRESSHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 9969 root 20 0 708 16 0 R 100.0 0.0 1549:10 v86d 579 root 30 10 0 0 0 S 9.1 0.0 16:09.93 speakup 11789 root 20 0 22524 2388 1116 R 0.7 0.0 0:00.03 top 7 root 0 -20 0 0 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:10.41 kworker/u:0H and onward ... This is an awful lot of tasks, I have never seen so many! That is a lot, I am currently running KDE, firefox and a citrix remote desktop thing. (oh, and skype and kopete and a few other items) KDE is installed with semantic-desktop, but the nepomuk stuff is disabled in system-settings. I have 200 tasks (yes, nice round figure) Anyone have any ideas? Thanks much. For the amount of tasks, check that you are not starting too many unneeded services. For the load-average of 1, shouldn't be too much of an issue, had similar in the past with a lot of stuff running and slow disks. For the freezing, I would suggest checking all the powersave options, especially the ones for the harddrives. Is there anything in the logs when this happens? Eg. check the logs right after the system becomes responsible again, maybe there is a hint there what is causing this. Unless systemd is setting some powersave options, I certainly never set anything like that, this is a desktop machine, not even a laptop. Next time this happens I will check the logs. Does systemd set some powersave options by default? I do not know that for sure, best wait for more knowledgable systemd users to answer that. If it doesn't, then systemd itself is causing more freezes (as per your experience) then openrc. I would guess it does or at least with the default configuration. What you describe makes me think the disks are switched to powersave sooner with systemd. Can you provide the output of the following command: # hdparm -B /dev/sda to get the APM settings of the disk. (If you have multiple disks, please run it for the others as well. Question for others as well, how do you get the current setting for the spindown timeout set with hdparm -S value device ? I couldn't find it. I am happy with openrc and have no intention on switching to systemd as I haven't heard of a single feature that would actually make my life easier. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] problems with performance when booted using systemd
On Friday, June 06, 2014 04:46:35 AM cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Friday, June 06, 2014 03:45:17 AM cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Friday, June 06, 2014 01:59:18 AM cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. I am having some strange performance problems when booted under systemd. These problems happened a little bit under openrc, but are much more pronounced with systemd. I don't think it's necessarily systemd itself, just a setting that systemd does differently then openrc. See below for more. I am using just virtual consoles, no gui whatsoever at the moment. I also use tmux with 4 windows in one of the vcs. My system is an i7 processor, quod core and 16g of ram and 2g of swap space which appears not to be used. I am using uvesafb for the console, so I get 64x160 screens. Sounds similar to my laptop, except I run KDE and got 16g of swap (for hibernate) The first problem is that if I don't press any keystrokes for several minutes and then want to move to another vc, it takes about 3 or 4 seconds after the alt-left arrow or alt-right arrow command to take effect. Even within the same vt, if I don't do anything for several minutes, it takes several seconds till the keystroke echoes and something happens. Once I have done this, things act normally, but its kind of annoying. Sounds like a powersave setting. I used to get the same on my old laptop with spinning rust. SSDs tend to spin-up a lot quicker. Also, my load average seems to always be 1. I have looked at top and things seem to be OK, except that my cpu usage is like this: Tasks: 934 total, 2 running, 931 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie %Cpu(s): 12.5 us, 1.2 sy, 0.0 ni, 86.0 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem: 16450248 total, 9678656 used, 6771592 free, 1084088 buffers KiB Swap: 2097148 total,4 used, 2097144 free. 1147688 cached Mem PID USER PR NIVIRTRESSHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 9969 root 20 0 708 16 0 R 100.0 0.0 1549:10 v86d 579 root 30 10 0 0 0 S 9.1 0.0 16:09.93 speakup 11789 root 20 0 22524 2388 1116 R 0.7 0.0 0:00.03 top 7 root 0 -20 0 0 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:10.41 kworker/u:0H and onward ... This is an awful lot of tasks, I have never seen so many! That is a lot, I am currently running KDE, firefox and a citrix remote desktop thing. (oh, and skype and kopete and a few other items) KDE is installed with semantic-desktop, but the nepomuk stuff is disabled in system-settings. I have 200 tasks (yes, nice round figure) Anyone have any ideas? Thanks much. For the amount of tasks, check that you are not starting too many unneeded services. For the load-average of 1, shouldn't be too much of an issue, had similar in the past with a lot of stuff running and slow disks. For the freezing, I would suggest checking all the powersave options, especially the ones for the harddrives. Is there anything in the logs when this happens? Eg. check the logs right after the system becomes responsible again, maybe there is a hint there what is causing this. Unless systemd is setting some powersave options, I certainly never set anything like that, this is a desktop machine, not even a laptop. Next time this happens I will check the logs. Does systemd set some powersave options by default? I do not know that for sure, best wait for more knowledgable systemd users to answer that. If it doesn't, then systemd itself is causing more freezes (as per your experience) then openrc. I would guess it does or at least with the default configuration. What you describe makes me think the disks are switched to powersave sooner with systemd. Can you provide the output of the following command: # hdparm -B /dev/sda to get the APM settings of the disk. (If you have multiple disks, please run it for the others as well. Question for others as well, how do you get the current setting for the spindown timeout set with hdparm -S value device ? I couldn't find it. I am happy with openrc and have no intention on switching to systemd as I haven't heard of a single feature that would actually make my life easier. I don't have hdparm on the system, is it only for older disks? If memory serves, it did not work at all when I tried it as my disks are all /dev/sda, etc, but that may be wrong. It also works on new SATA drives and SSDs: # smartctl -a /dev/sda
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tuesday, June 03, 2014 11:59:07 AM Alexander Kapshuk wrote: Howdy, Just wanted to make sure I read the change logs shown below correctly. So far, I've been using sys-power/upower. Attempting to update sys-power/upower seems to require sys-apps/systemd to be pulled in as a dependency, which I don't want to do. If I understand the change log below correctly, I should uninstall sys-power/upower and install sys-power/upower-pm-utils instead. Is that right? Thanks. equery c sys-power/upower-pm-utils *upower-pm-utils-0.9.23 (26 May 2014) 26 May 2014; Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org +upower-pm-utils-0.9.23.ebuild, +files/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-clamp_percentage_for_overfull_batt.patch, +files/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-create-dir-runtime.patch, +files/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-fix-segfault.patch: Initial commit of upower 0.9 git branch for use with sys-power/pm-utils because upower master git branch removed support for it. Right now this is a copy of =sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r2 without USE=systemd because sys-apps/systemd users will be moving to =sys-power/upower-0.99. equery c sys-power/upower|sed -n '1,/instead/p' *upower-0.9.23-r3 (02 Jun 2014) 02 Jun 2014; Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org +upower-0.9.23-r3.ebuild: Leave 0.9.23-r3 with --disable-deprecated for sys-apps/systemd users. Users who want UPower with sys-power/pm-utils support will want to emerge =sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23 instead. Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tuesday, June 03, 2014 11:39:39 AM Tom Wijsman wrote: On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 11:30:11 + J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. Which is a lot better than to have it break by the lack thereof. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And who is going to maintain all that. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. The usage of a USE flag should not control runtime dependencies when the package does not link to it. Doing so will create extra configuration for the package and re-compilation for no underlying file change on disk. This should be avoided and instead can be conveyed to the user via post install messages if needed. http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/use-flags Then the dependencies should have been fixed prior to making this stable. I do not use Gnome and don't want systemd. I use KDE, which does not depend on systemd. Some of the packages, however, do depend on upower. Supposedly these would work the upower-pm-utils. I would expect the dependency to be fixed before marking this stable or the solution I mentioned to be implemented. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
It is marked stable. Otherwise it wouldn't cause blockers because it attempts to force an installation of systemd. -- Joost On 3 June 2014 12:06:26 CEST, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: On Tuesday 03 June 2014 11:48:22 J. Roeleveld wrote: Then the dependencies should have been fixed prior to making this stable. Actually, though it may be marked as stable, it isn't, by which I mean that I can't emerge -uaDvN world today - I get udev and systemd blocking each other. I ran another sync and tried again, but that wasn't the cause. Usually I fix blockages like this by removing the offending package and updating world, but that didn't help here. To be specific, this is what I did: 1. emerge -C sys-fs/udev-212 virtual/libgudev virtual/udev virtual/libudev sys-power/upower 2. added -systemd to make.conf USE flags 3. emerge -uaDvN world 4. got these blocks (I've switched word-wrap off for this): [blocks B ] sys-fs/udev (sys-fs/udev is blocking sys-apps/systemd-212-r5, sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4) [blocks B ] sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration (sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration is blocking sys-fs/udev-212-r1) [blocks B ] sys-apps/systemd (sys-apps/systemd is blocking sys-fs/udev-212-r1) Total: 17 packages (4 upgrades, 11 new, 1 in new slot, 1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 149,100 kB Conflict: 3 blocks (3 unsatisfied) * Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be * installed at the same time on the same system. (sys-fs/udev-212-r1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by =sys-fs/udev-208-r1:0/0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,gudev,introspection?,static-libs?] (=sys-fs/udev-208-r1:0/0[abi_x86_64(-),gudev]) required by (virtual/libgudev-208::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) =sys-fs/udev-208 required by (virtual/udev-208-r2::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) =sys-fs/udev-208:0/0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,static-libs?] (=sys-fs/udev-208:0/0[abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (virtual/libudev-208::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) (sys-apps/systemd-212-r5::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by =sys-apps/systemd-200 required by (sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) =sys-apps/systemd-207 required by (sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) Looks like there are still a few wrinkles to sort out yet. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Demise of Truecrypt - surprised I haven't seen t his discussed here yet?
On Tuesday, June 03, 2014 09:53:58 PM Matti Nykyri wrote: On Jun 2, 2014, at 18:29, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: I actually meant the software side: - How to wipe the keys and then wipe the whole memory. The dm-crypt module inside kernel provides a crypt_wipe_key function that wipes the memory portion that holds the key. It also invalidates the key, so that no further writes to the drive can occur. Suspending the device prior is recommended: dmsetup suspend /dev/to-device dmsetup message /dev/to-device 0 key wipe Thank you for this, wasn't aware of those yet. Does this also work with LUKS encrypted devices? When you boot into your kernel you can setup a crash kernel inside your memory. The running kernel will not touch this area so you can be certain that there is no confidential data inside. Then you just wipe the area of the memory of the original kernel after you have executed your crash kernel. So I do this by opening /dev/mem in the crash kernel and then mmap every page you need to wipe. I use the memset to wipe the page. Begin from physical address where your original kernel is located and walk the way up. Skip the portion where you crash kernel is! Crash kernel location is in your kernel cmdline and the location of the original kernel in your kernel config. Hmm.. this goes beyond me. Will need to google on this to see if I can find some more. Unless you know a good starting URL? I would keep the system controlling all that off the internet with only a null-modem cable to an internet-connected server using a custom protocol. Anything that doesn't match the protocol initiates a full lock-down of the house. ;) But it is much more convenient to control everything from you phone via internet. Just have everything setup in a secure manner. Anyways it's easier for a common burglar to break the window then to hack the server! And you can not steal the stereos by hacking the server ;) Perhaps, but I would have added security shutters to all the windows and doors which are also controlled by the same system. Smashing a window wouldn't help there. Especially if the only way to open those is by getting the server (which by then went into a full lock-down) to open them... Now only to add a halo fire suppression system to the server room and all you need to do is find a way to dispose of the mess ;) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Demise of Truecrypt - surprised I haven't seen t his discussed here yet?
On Monday, June 02, 2014 11:56:24 AM Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 05:27:44 -0500, Dale wrote: The second option does sound what I am looking for. Basically, if I log out but leave my computer on, leave home, some crook/NSA type breaks in and tries to access something or steals my whole puter, they would just get garbage for data. That seems to fit the second option best. If they steal your computer they will have to power it off, unless you are kind enough to leave them a large enough UPS to steal along with it, so any encryption will be equally effective. You only need a UPS that can keep a machine running for about a few minutes. First start the portable generator, then unplug the UPS from the wall and plug it into the portable generator. Then when in the car/van/truck/... plug it over from the portable generator into a 12V / 24V - 120/240V DC/AC converter and drive to a location where you have the tools to hack into a running machine. Best configure the machine to auto-power-down when it looses connection to a fixed device in your home, like the smart meter, bluetooth headset,... or anything else that has a built-in wireless capability. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Demise of Truecrypt - surprised I haven't seen t his discussed here yet?
On Monday, June 02, 2014 12:10:38 PM Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 06:04:44 -0500, Dale wrote: That said, my UPS claims it will run for about a hour or so. They could go quite a ways around here in a hour. Mine won't last that long, but it does make quite a racket when you disconnect the mains, maybe loud enough to have a thief leave it behind. Those alarms are silenced when plugged back into a powersource and usually there is a silence-button on the UPS. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Demise of Truecrypt - surprised I haven't seen t his discussed here yet?
On Monday, June 02, 2014 07:28:53 AM Rich Freeman wrote: On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 05:27:44 -0500, Dale wrote: The second option does sound what I am looking for. Basically, if I log out but leave my computer on, leave home, some crook/NSA type breaks in and tries to access something or steals my whole puter, they would just get garbage for data. That seems to fit the second option best. If they steal your computer they will have to power it off, unless you are kind enough to leave them a large enough UPS to steal along with it, so any encryption will be equally effective. If you're worried about casual thieves then just about any kind of properly-implemented encryption will stop them. If you're worried about a government official specifically tasked with retrieving your computer, my understanding is that it is SOP these days to retrieve your computer without powering it off for just this reason. They won't use your UPS to do it. Typically they remove the plug just far enough to expose the prongs, slide in a connector that connects it to a UPS, and then they pull it out the rest of the way now powered by the UPS. See something like: http://www.cru-inc.com/products/wiebetech/hotplug_field_kit/ Hmm... Those are nice, but can be easily built yourself with an off-the-shelf UPS. Presumably somebody who is determined will also have the means to retrieve the contents of RAM once they seize your computer. Besides directlly accessing the memory bus I think most motherboards are not designed to be secure against attacks from PCI/firewire/etc. Hmm... add something to auto-shutdown the computer when a hotplug event occurs on any of the internal ports and remove support for unused ports from the kernel. I wonder how they'd keep a computer from initiating a shutdown procedure or causing a kernel panic when it looses (wireless) connection to another device that is unlikely to be moved when powered up? -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Demise of Truecrypt - surprised I haven't seen t his discussed here yet?
On Monday, June 02, 2014 03:23:03 PM Matti Nykyri wrote: On Jun 2, 2014, at 16:40, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Monday, June 02, 2014 07:28:53 AM Rich Freeman wrote: On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 05:27:44 -0500, Dale wrote: The second option does sound what I am looking for. Basically, if I log out but leave my computer on, leave home, some crook/NSA type breaks in and tries to access something or steals my whole puter, they would just get garbage for data. That seems to fit the second option best. If they steal your computer they will have to power it off, unless you are kind enough to leave them a large enough UPS to steal along with it, so any encryption will be equally effective. If you're worried about casual thieves then just about any kind of properly-implemented encryption will stop them. If you're worried about a government official specifically tasked with retrieving your computer, my understanding is that it is SOP these days to retrieve your computer without powering it off for just this reason. They won't use your UPS to do it. Typically they remove the plug just far enough to expose the prongs, slide in a connector that connects it to a UPS, and then they pull it out the rest of the way now powered by the UPS. See something like: http://www.cru-inc.com/products/wiebetech/hotplug_field_kit/ Hmm... Those are nice, but can be easily built yourself with an off-the-shelf UPS. Presumably somebody who is determined will also have the means to retrieve the contents of RAM once they seize your computer. Besides directlly accessing the memory bus I think most motherboards are not designed to be secure against attacks from PCI/firewire/etc. Hmm... add something to auto-shutdown the computer when a hotplug event occurs on any of the internal ports and remove support for unused ports from the kernel. I wonder how they'd keep a computer from initiating a shutdown procedure or causing a kernel panic when it looses (wireless) connection to another device that is unlikely to be moved when powered up? Well i have a switch in the door of the server room. It opens when you open the door. That signals the kernel to wipe all the encryption keys from kernel memory. Without the keys there is no access to the disks. After that another kernel is executed which wipes the memory of the old kernel. If you just pull the plug memory will stay in its state for an unspecified time. You don't happen to have a howto on how to set that up? Swap uses random keys. network switches and routers get power only after firewall-server is up and running. networked powersockets? There is no easy way to enter the room without wipeing the encryption keys. Booting up the server requires that a boot disk is brought to the computer to decrypt the boot drive. Grub2 can do this easily. This is to prevent some one to tamper eith a boot loader. System is not protected against hardware tamperment. The server room is an RF-cage. I consoder this setup quite secure. Makes me wonder what it is you are protecting your server from. :) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Demise of Truecrypt - surprised I haven't seen t his discussed here yet?
On Monday, June 02, 2014 04:23:07 PM Matti Nykyri wrote: On Jun 2, 2014, at 17:52, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Monday, June 02, 2014 03:23:03 PM Matti Nykyri wrote: On Jun 2, 2014, at 16:40, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Monday, June 02, 2014 07:28:53 AM Rich Freeman wrote: On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 05:27:44 -0500, Dale wrote: The second option does sound what I am looking for. Basically, if I log out but leave my computer on, leave home, some crook/NSA type breaks in and tries to access something or steals my whole puter, they would just get garbage for data. That seems to fit the second option best. If they steal your computer they will have to power it off, unless you are kind enough to leave them a large enough UPS to steal along with it, so any encryption will be equally effective. If you're worried about casual thieves then just about any kind of properly-implemented encryption will stop them. If you're worried about a government official specifically tasked with retrieving your computer, my understanding is that it is SOP these days to retrieve your computer without powering it off for just this reason. They won't use your UPS to do it. Typically they remove the plug just far enough to expose the prongs, slide in a connector that connects it to a UPS, and then they pull it out the rest of the way now powered by the UPS. See something like: http://www.cru-inc.com/products/wiebetech/hotplug_field_kit/ Hmm... Those are nice, but can be easily built yourself with an off-the-shelf UPS. Presumably somebody who is determined will also have the means to retrieve the contents of RAM once they seize your computer. Besides directlly accessing the memory bus I think most motherboards are not designed to be secure against attacks from PCI/firewire/etc. Hmm... add something to auto-shutdown the computer when a hotplug event occurs on any of the internal ports and remove support for unused ports from the kernel. I wonder how they'd keep a computer from initiating a shutdown procedure or causing a kernel panic when it looses (wireless) connection to another device that is unlikely to be moved when powered up? Well i have a switch in the door of the server room. It opens when you open the door. That signals the kernel to wipe all the encryption keys from kernel memory. Without the keys there is no access to the disks. After that another kernel is executed which wipes the memory of the old kernel. If you just pull the plug memory will stay in its state for an unspecified time. You don't happen to have a howto on how to set that up? Well i have a deamon running and a self made logic device in COM-port. Very simple. It has a single serial-parallel converter to do simple IO. Currently it just controls one relay that powers the network-devices. I actually meant the software side: - How to wipe the keys and then wipe the whole memory. I consoder this setup quite secure. Makes me wonder what it is you are protecting your server from. :) Well just a hobby. I wanted to play with electronics. The server controls my heating, locks of the house, lights, airconditioning, fire-alarm and burglar-alarm. Gentoo-powered house... I would keep the system controlling all that off the internet with only a null-modem cable to an internet-connected server using a custom protocol. Anything that doesn't match the protocol initiates a full lock-down of the house. ;) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Demise of Truecrypt - surprised I haven't seen t his discussed here yet?
On Monday, June 02, 2014 07:14:27 PM Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 02.06.2014 13:28, schrieb Rich Freeman: On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 05:27:44 -0500, Dale wrote: The second option does sound what I am looking for. Basically, if I log out but leave my computer on, leave home, some crook/NSA type breaks in and tries to access something or steals my whole puter, they would just get garbage for data. That seems to fit the second option best. If they steal your computer they will have to power it off, unless you are kind enough to leave them a large enough UPS to steal along with it, so any encryption will be equally effective. If you're worried about casual thieves then just about any kind of properly-implemented encryption will stop them. If you're worried about a government official specifically tasked with retrieving your computer, my understanding is that it is SOP these days to retrieve your computer without powering it off for just this reason. They won't use your UPS to do it. Typically they remove the plug just far enough to expose the prongs, slide in a connector that connects it to a UPS, and then they pull it out the rest of the way now powered by the UPS. See something like: http://www.cru-inc.com/products/wiebetech/hotplug_field_kit/ only works with sockets of unsafe design - aka american stuff. Can not be used with Schuko sockets. Actually, it can be used with Schuko sockets, just a bit risky... 1) Strip the wire 2) split off the power wires 3) plug the powersupply directly onto the core of the cable. 4) unplug from the wall -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Organising btrfs subvolumes
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:57:58 PM Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Am 27.05.2014 09:59, schrieb Neil Bothwick: So far, btrfs looks good on my laptop - time to think about putting it on my desktop. Yeah, good luck with that. I am quite happy with btrfs so far ... no problems or disadvantages so far. And the hourly snapshots of / and /home on my desktop are really nice to have ;-) Hourly snapshots are nice, but I wonder how much need there is if the filesystem itself doesn't change very much. I am still happily using LVM with snapshots. Those are instantaneous as well and I can then backup the snapshot, which on my server takes between 2 hours (incremental) and 3 weeks (full) When a snapshot is backed up, it is removed. The process to create the snapshots runs daily, but I could also configure it to run more often. This means that when I start a daily backup, the incrementals are piling up as snapshots. With 15 different filesystems to backup, I didn't experience any issue with this. I wonder how btrfs would deal with a situation like this? -- Joost
[gentoo-user] Backups and snapshots [Was: Organising btrfs subvolumes]
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:31:26 AM Rich Freeman wrote: On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: I am still happily using LVM with snapshots. Those are instantaneous as well and I can then backup the snapshot, which on my server takes between 2 hours (incremental) and 3 weeks (full) When a snapshot is backed up, it is removed. The process to create the snapshots runs daily, but I could also configure it to run more often. This means that when I start a daily backup, the incrementals are piling up as snapshots. With 15 different filesystems to backup, I didn't experience any issue with this. I wonder how btrfs would deal with a situation like this? btrfs wouldn't have any issues with this at all. You'd have an advantage in that you wouldn't have to unmount the filesystem to cleanly create the snapshot (which you have to do with lvm). That, or a sync prior to creating the snapshot. :) If you're concerned about application-level consistency you still need to get applications to flush their writes/checkpoint/etc (which don't have to be on disk, but they do have to be sent to the kernel). Application-level consistency, for some of the filesystems, means stopping the application, taking a backup of the database, creating a snapshot and then restarting the application. For all the applications I run, the entire nightly process takes 2 minutes in total. During this time, services become temporarily unavailable. This is acceptable. If you want to get really crazy you could make use of btrfs send as well - which is a filesystem-level function which tracks the actual changes between snapshots. Think of it like librsync with full file comparisons (a very expensive mode that few use in practice) but it doesn't need to actually read the files or have access to the destination files to find the differences. Doing this does require keeping around a snapshot until all backups incrementally created against it are done (if there are going to be any). I have a yearly (full), monthly, weekly and daily. Each incremental is against the most recent one of itself or longer period. That means having to keep multiple snapshots active, which I prefer to avoid. But, it is a good idea for backing up desktops and laptops. But, you can always just create a snapshot, write it to backup with your favorite tool (it is just a directory tree), and then remove it as soon as you're done with it. Creating a snapshot is atomic at the filesystem level, though again if you want application level consistency you need to deal with that until somebody comes up with a transactional way to store files on Linux that is more elegant that fsyncing on every write. That would require a method to keep database and filesystem perfectly in sync when they are not necessarily on the same machine.
Re: [gentoo-user] Backups and snapshots [Was: Organising btrfs subvolumes]
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 05:12:50 PM J. Roeleveld wrote: On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:31:26 AM Rich Freeman wrote: On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: snipped Forgot to add: For fileservers, I am starting to feel that ZFS or BTRFS snapshots are easier to work with as it makes restoring files simpler. Does anyone know how these will handle (and perform) with a possible 300+ snapshots per filesystem (or volume, as I think it's called)? -- Joost
