Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.3.18 deletes exif data from images
Hi Luis Luis A. Florit wrote: Please excuse me, Mukund, but I will be very surprised if this has something to do with broken EXIF data. As I'm yet to see the actual original image in question, speculating about what is wrong with it is pointless. Please attach the image to the bug and we'll have a look at it and find out what is going on. There is (well was) only one place where EXIF info was discarded in GIMP, and hence I suggested what the problem be, but we may not know until you attach your image first to a bug and show it to us. Kind regards, Mukund signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.3.18 deletes exif data from images (2)
Hi Luis Luis A. Florit wrote: Compiling the trunk, I saw that GIMP (also version = 2.3.18) needs libexif = 0.6.15, while there is no RPM repository with libexif version bigger than 0.6.13. (Probably most RPM based distros have the libexif outdated). Ah good. So there lies your problem :-) Kind regards, Mukund signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.3.18 deletes exif data from images (2)
Luis A. Florit wrote: Compiling the trunk, I saw that GIMP (also version = 2.3.18) needs libexif = 0.6.15, while there is no RPM repository with libexif version bigger than 0.6.13. (Probably most RPM based distros have the libexif outdated). Observe that version libexif 0.6.15 has a delicate security bug that was only fixed in the last version 0.6.16 (2007-06-12). Btw I use Fedora 7 (RPM based) and we have 0.6.15 in it. Kind regards, Mukund signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] about carol
Hi, On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 16:39 -0400, Louis Desjardins wrote: Carol was at LGM this year and she was not hiding away, at least from what I saw. Anyone could meet her face to face. I had the chance to have a few short conversations with her but being the organiser time has not allowed us to discuss as much as we did in Lyon last year. I am not aware if anybody has discussed with her on the particular subject of her threads on IRC but in any event it would have been of course a nice occasion to do so. You are bringing up another point here. Carol had been explicitely asked not to show up at LGM and she also ignored this request. Of course since this is a public event, anyone can show up. But she has been on several GIMP meetings before and over the last years managed to take the fun out of such meetings and even spoiled them. The fact that she will be around was one of the main reasons for me not to come to Canada this year. If I would have met her again, I might have done something stupid. People who have been to Montreal have told me that she was a constant threat, annoying people and spreading misinformation. It is very harmful to have her appear on such events. And I definitely don't want anyone to get the impression that she's a member of the GIMP team. She has stopped her contributions long ago and she has been asked to leave several times now. It is about time that this finally happens. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.3.18 deletes exif data from images
Hi, On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 00:18 -0300, Luis A. Florit wrote: From aggressive answers, to unanswered mails (not that bad), It would help a lot if you could try to be more precise in your mails. That would avoid the need to ask for details. If a dialog is titled Save as JPEG, then why do you call it Save as ... several times? Your message was so imprecise that even experienced GIMP developers could not tell what exactly you are talking about. Several plug-in can save EXIF data and without the information which plug-in you are using, there is not much we can do. Also, your questions are rather aggressive. It would help a lot if you could try to understand that people are working on this project in their free time. If something breaks in the development version, then this does not happen with the intent of breaking something. It is also not a personal offense, but your mails make it look like one. Look at this for example: So: 1) Is the EXIF source in the all the 3 cameras (of 3 different brands) broken? 2) Why all the other graphic programs that I use (showfoto, gqview, gthumb, exiftool) always showed the EXIF data with no problem, and still show? 3) Why the Save EXIF data option in the Save as... dialog is no longer present? 4) Why GIMP deletes the EXIF data now? 5) If broken, why previous versions of GIMP preserve the EXIF data? GIMP 2.3.16 2.3.17 and 2.2.14 still work perfectly for me (in this respect; I had to stop using 2.3.17 because it crashed consistently, probably because of its known bug). Is this tone in any way helpful? The only thing you can achieve by putting it this way is to demotivate the developer working on this. to ignored bug reports in bugzilla (VERY bad). Please point me to any ignored bug reports. We take bug reports very seriously and I will not let you get away stating in public that we would ignore bug reports. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Webdesign is wrong
David, peter sikking wrote: We do imagine that a set of website graphics pieces gets _produced_ on a single canvas, and when everything works well together graphically, with a single 'cutting mask' all pieces are cut out and saved in the right web format, in a single action. I don't see how this can work in practice. I often need to hide or isolate layers before exporting the selection they affect we were thinking the same, so a cutting mask is not part of a layer... and many selections are a very small part of an element's area (say 1 pixel wide) because they will be tiled by the browser as part of a background image. that is what we expect, too... In other words, some manual work needs to be done with the majority of web graphics taken from a concept. can you tell me what you mean with manual work needs to be done? that can help us with our work. Comparatively few images are cut out as they are. I can clarify that in general we do not expect that some mock-up is taken, and then the bits are cut out, and finished. in general we expect that graphics artists set up the canvas and layers in any way that works for them: sometimes a creating continuous area and cutting out pieces from there, sometimes laying out pieces just as a set adjacent to each other. Set up variations of sets of graphics by duplicating layers, or by switching layers on and off, or by switching GEGL operations on or off? do whatever you want, we can handle it. use any combination of hand-made selections and one or more cutting masks (these contain any number of selections), be our guest. we feel that with this flexibility we cam truly support web graphics work in a flexible way. thanks for your feedback, --ps principal user interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Rudeness on gimp devel, version 754 (was '2.3.18 deletes exif data from images')
Von: Luis A. Florit [EMAIL PROTECTED] The point is, again, the constant rudeness in gimp devel list... From aggressive answers, to unanswered mails (not that bad), There's a how-to about asking and dealing with replies on mailing lists, titled How To Ask Questions The Smart Way: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html For this thread, one should have a look at http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#keepcool in particular. I found it very useful for any discussion - not limited to mailing lists and newsgroups - and recommend anyone who is participating in either to read it. to ignored bug reports in bugzilla (VERY bad). What exactly does ignored mean in this case? I do assume that you are not referring to the absence of comments or state changes - there are many reasons why this does happen, one of them could be that the bug is well written and does not require further questions. HTH, Michael -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kanns mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] about carol
2007/6/22, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: She has stopped her contributions long ago and she has been asked to leave several times now. It is about time that this finally happens. Hi Sven, Isn't there a way on the channels (IRC, bugtracker, mailing list) to simply restrain the access to a specific individual when things get to a point where repetitive demands and persuasion don't seem to give any results? Let's face it, I realize this is pretty unusual and must very rarely happen but there is a possibility that someone else steps in one day with the same behavior. While there are of course no ways to prevent this upstream can we at least make sure there are ways to prevent this person from being in contact with the community once the problem has been clearly identified? I really wish we can sort this out because this might happen elsewhere in any other project. It is not an exclusivity of the gimp team! Louis Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] about carol
Louis Desjardins wrote: 2007/6/22, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: She has stopped her contributions long ago and she has been asked to leave several times now. It is about time that this finally happens. Hi Sven, Isn't there a way on the channels (IRC, bugtracker, mailing list) to simply restrain the access to a specific individual when things get to a point where repetitive demands and persuasion don't seem to give any results? Let's face it, I realize this is pretty unusual and must very rarely happen but there is a possibility that someone else steps in one day with the same behavior. While there are of course no ways to prevent this upstream can we at least make sure there are ways to prevent this person from being in contact with the community once the problem has been clearly identified? I really wish we can sort this out because this might happen elsewhere in any other project. It is not an exclusivity of the gimp team! Louis Sven From my experience in a few OSS community's, this would seem to be a fairly rare incident. Some developers can probably come over snobby or arrogant but to be abusive (thats what I gather has happened) is something I havnt seen before. If I ever acted in a way that hurt the Blender3D community, I would be kicked out before I did too much damage. Its most surprising this behavior has been this tolerated for so long. Since carol had the composure to be civil with people face-to-face makes me think that she does KNOW BETTER... and that her behavior is something she allows herself online where one can have less inhabitation's saying offensive stuff. Its not like you are being unreasonable, Sven has said he wanted the old Carol back and if one day Carol decides she is ready to come back into the community - She could could earn back some respect and contribute again. I have know people to go through mental illness and have sympathy for her if this is the case, but that dosnt mean you let her hurt a project thats important to many people and the linux community at large. PS. I dont know what homo-erotic means exactly but hey- Whatever helps coders, and is safer then rugby. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] about carol
Campbell Barton writes: Since carol had the composure to be civil with people face-to-face makes me think that she does KNOW BETTER... I am not so sure. At LGM2007 there was at least one occasion where I was present when carol started her typical carol-speak, and (predictably) directing odd insinuative questions to one of the female developers present. I guess most of us others just thought oh. here we go again and tried to pretend we didn't listen (at least I did). Luckily the subject of carol's harrassment this time understoof what was going on and didn't bother feeding the troll, so nothing more serious happened. --tml ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] about carol
It would be helpful to get more input from yosh. -- Bill __ __ __ __ Sent via the CNPRC Email system at primate.ucdavis.edu ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] about carol
Hi Bill, On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 10:27 -0700, William Skaggs wrote: It would be helpful to get more input from yosh. He already said (in this thread) that he is very busy this week and that he will comment on it later. Can we please just calm down now and give him time to answer? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP project leadership (was: about carol)
Hi Louis, On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 08:38:59 -0400, Louis Desjardins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't there a way on the channels (IRC, bugtracker, mailing list) to simply restrain the access to a specific individual when things get to a point where repetitive demands and persuasion don't seem to give any results? This is not so simple, in part due to the way the GIMP project is organized (or not) :-). Short recap for those who are not familiar with the project: - When it comes to the code, neo (Sven Neumann) and mitch (Michael Natterer) are by far the most active developers. They have the final say on most technical decisions. Have a quick look at the ChangeLog and you will see which names appear frequently. Like many free software projects, GIMP is like an informal meritocracy, so those who contribute more have more authority over the technical aspects of the project. - But when it comes to the infrastructure such as the IRC server ircd.gimp.org, the web servers, the mailing lists and the gimp.org mail server and user accounts, yosh (Manish Singh) owns or operates most of it. He is also an active developer. Since he is the administrator of these servers or services, he is the only one who can restrain access to these channels. - In the past, we had several proposals for setting up some kind of code of conduct or guidelines for participation in the project. There were also some proposals about what to do when someone misbehaved. But these proposals were never formally approved and were never enforced. I think that the last attempt was initiated by bolsh (Dave Neary) before he decided to quit the project, mostly because of Carol. Of course we have some guidelines such as the List Etiquette published on our web site (http://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html) and some IRC rules on our wiki (http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/Irc). But these are recommendations and they are rarely enforced. Usually, Yosh has been swift in blocking access to people who misbehaved on this mailing list or on IRC, except for Carol. There are several reasons for that, including some that are related to Carol's past situation, but I don't think that it is up to me to explain them. I probably do not know half of these reasons anyway. Yosh has mentioned in a previous message that it will take him a bit more time to state his opinion on this matter and I respect that. Since he is the only one who can enforce any decision, there is not much point in arguing about Carol and continuing this discussion until he explains what he intends to do (and why, maybe). Let's face it, I realize this is pretty unusual and must very rarely happen but there is a possibility that someone else steps in one day with the same behavior. While there are of course no ways to prevent this upstream can we at least make sure there are ways to prevent this person from being in contact with the community once the problem has been clearly identified? I really wish we can sort this out because this might happen elsewhere in any other project. It is not an exclusivity of the gimp team! The problem that we have been facing with Carol for several years is quite unusual, and as far as I know, exclusive to the GIMP team (alas!). In part because Carol's behavior is rather unusual: sometimes she tries to help, sometimes she tries to mislead people, sometimes she harrasses people. And in part because we never took any effective measures against her, contrary to other annoying people who disturbed the project and were quickly excluded from this list or kicked from IRC. -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] index colour images: interp
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 00:30:04 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 21:13:42 +0200, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 10:55 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I was not intending to emphasise layers, although I was trying to cover the case where an indexed layer was added. The basic point is that this message is great if there is an indexed element in the image, otherwise it's clutter and we could prefer to avoid displaying this for non indexed images. This whole thread could have been avoided if you had taken the time to actually try this before you write a mail. The message is only shown when scaling indexed image. If you scale an RGB or grayscale image, no such hint is displayed. Sven Very sorry to have wasted your time. Of course I did test this but I was mistaken about the nature of the image I was testing with. It was a test image in png format. I looked at image props , colour profile where it states name : sRGB , info: default RGB working space. This lead me to mistakenly think it was an RGB image. Now I double check, it is in fact an indexed image which explains the message appearing as you say. Appologies for the noise. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer Hoping to make some useful outcome to this thread ... Indexed colour layers are always scaled without interpolation. This is incorrect. I suggest the following. Indexed colour layers are always scaled using nearest neighbour interpolation. Once 2.4 is out and there is a review of the interp naming strategy w.r.t. downscaling the use of NONE should be probably be changed as well. (A scaled up image with no interpolation has holes in it.) Even though rather simplistic, N.N _is_ interpolation. ;) ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.3.18 deletes exif data from images
* El 22/06/07 a las 8:53, Sven Neumann chamullaba: Hi, On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 00:18 -0300, Luis A. Florit wrote: From aggressive answers, to unanswered mails (not that bad), It would help a lot if you could try to be more precise in your mails. That would avoid the need to ask for details. If a dialog is titled Save as JPEG, then why do you call it Save as ... several times? Only you seemed not to know, or didn't want to know, where the Save EXIF data option is in GIMP. Alex Pounds knew exactly what I was talking about, and understand the same as me by Save as ... dialog. Your message was so imprecise that even experienced GIMP developers could not tell what exactly you are talking about. Several plug-in can save EXIF data and without the information which plug-in you are using, there is not much we can do. You answered as if no such option never existed, and not as if there were many. Also, your questions are rather aggressive. It would help a lot if you could try to understand that people are working on this project in their free time. Of course. If something breaks in the development version, then this does not happen with the intent of breaking something. I never said that. We are all here in our free time, we are all here to try to make GIMP better for others and for us. Not only the developers, but also the ones that bother reporting bugs. It is also not a personal offense, but your mails make it look like one. I don't understand where you read that. Look at this for example: So: 1) Is the EXIF source in the all the 3 cameras (of 3 different brands) broken? 2) Why all the other graphic programs that I use (showfoto, gqview, gthumb, exiftool) always showed the EXIF data with no problem, and still show? 3) Why the Save EXIF data option in the Save as... dialog is no longer present? 4) Why GIMP deletes the EXIF data now? 5) If broken, why previous versions of GIMP preserve the EXIF data? GIMP 2.3.16 2.3.17 and 2.2.14 still work perfectly for me (in this respect; I had to stop using 2.3.17 because it crashed consistently, probably because of its known bug). Is this tone in any way helpful? The only thing you can achieve by putting it this way is to demotivate the developer working on this. Sorry, but I see no aggression in the above quote. I just tried to point to Mukund that this had nothing to do with broken EXIF, giving several arguments for that. To be precise. BTW, it is interesting to notice that you cut the paragraph that was right before the one you quoted, where I wrote: : Please excuse me, Mukund, but I will be very surprised : if this has something to do with broken EXIF data. Do you also think that an argument that begins with Please excuse me... is aggressive? Probably not, but for some reason you cut that sentence and took the next out of context. And still, it is not aggressive. My apologies to Mukund if he felt that. to ignored bug reports in bugzilla (VERY bad). Please point me to any ignored bug reports. We take bug reports very seriously and I will not let you get away stating in public that we would ignore bug reports. My bug report was sent to bugzilla.redhat when Fedora 4 was out. bugzilla.redhat is dead now. But I sent this email, with subject still the same bug on April 30 to this list (Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 56, Issue 1, to be precise): : However, about a year or two ago, I reported a bug in Bugzilla: : the mouse buttons in GIMP main image window do nothing when I have : attached a my Wacom tablet. ONLY in GIMP. This happened with Fedora : 4,5,6 (fresh installs), with GIMP stable and devel versions. It is : the only program that I have this problem, and the bug is still alive. And just a quick search in http://bugzilla.gnome.org/ in this precise minute returned this: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=406440 (2007-02-10) http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=449590 (2007-06-20) So, 3 bugzilla reports of the same bug. 4 months and not a single answer. And still stated as unconfirmed! And still we cannot use the mouse in GIMP. So, yes, I state, publicly, again: this bug has been ignored for months (in fact, for years, since Fedora 4, and we are now in Fedora 7). No matter if you let me 'get away' or not. BTW, the thread of April 30 mentioned above was because a bug report I made in this list about a shift in the despeckle plugin was unanswered! I sent a second report (also included in the same Digest above): : Pals, : : I reported this bug in this list some time ago, and got no : answer (I think), and the 2.3.16 version still has the same bug: : The despeckle plugin shifts the image one pixel to the right, : and one to the bottom. Consequently, it is essentially useless. : If you draw in the middle of a white background a black cross : like this: : : x : xxx : x : : and run the despeckle plugin with radius 1, you get this asymmetric : output: : : x :
