Re: [Gimp-developer] How I modify gimp-2.99 to be more productive

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

Not to dissuade you from your GIMP contributions (which sound amazing), but
have you considered using Inkscape instead of GIMP for these tasks? I also
have to do a bunch of Blender renders + composition/photo editing bits, and
since Inkscape can link in external files, and auto-updates them when they
change in the file-system, I find it's generally no work at all to output a
series of high quality files with different compositions, all from the
command line. Even better, the setup is all GUI based inside Inkscape, so
it doesn't involve writing any special code, or plugins.

I still use GIMP for some colour touchups on the base file after rendering
sometimes if my blender compositing didn't produce quite the correct
colour. For assembling composites, though nothing is faster than Inkscape
in my experience. If you're interested in learning my techniques, I'm happy
to share. You can contact me offlist to compare notes.

Just putting that out there. :)
-C



On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:38 AM Thomas Manni via gimp-developer-list <
gimp-developer-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> since last summer, I occasionally make money as freelancer thanks to my
> Gimp user skills.
> I create photo-montages for artisan builder either in the context of
> obtaining building permit, or as a decision tool for their customers.
> Starting from a photo of the current existing place, I integrate elements
> to visually match what the builder envisage to do.
> Depending of the complexity of the project, I use Gimp 2.99 alone or a
> mixed of Gimp + Blender for modeling buildings.
>
> In each project, I create a lot of layers, layer masks and layer groups
> via the buttons at the bottom of the layers dock.
> I also make a lot of temporary selections with selection tools.
> After spending hours behind the screen with deadlines in mind (often from
> one day to the next), I have done several modifications to Gimp 2.99 to
> accelerate my work when doing repetitive basic tasks.
>
> To reduce the time interacting with the "new layer" dialog, a click on the
> new layer button automatically creates an empty layer with the size of the
> canvas.
> The dialog is still accessible via menu Layer > New Layer... or by
> shift-clicking the button.
>
> To reduce the time interacting with the "new layer mask" dialog, a click
> on the new layer mask button automatically creates a layer mask:
> - from the selection if the selection is not empty
> - white otherwise
> The dialog is still accessible via menu Layer > Mask > Add layer masks...
> or by shift-clicking the button.
>
> A click on the "new layer group" button creates a group at the position of
> the upper selected layer (in the layers hierarchy), and all selected layers
> are moved inside the group.
>
> When only one layer is selected and its mask is in edition mode, a click
> on the "delete selected layers" button deletes the layer mask.
>
> When a copy-paste is done, the floating selection is automatically
> transformed to a new layer.
>
> To reduce the time spend to deselect, the selection is automatically empty
> when
> - the selection is save to a channel
> - the selection is used to create a layer mask
> - the image or a layer is crop to the selection
> - the content of the selection is pasted as a new layer
>
> Also I have other modifications in my to-do list, like:
> - when removing the alpha channel of a layer, simply remove the alpha
> channel without affecting the pixels colors.
> - right-clicking on a layer mask will pop a dedicated menu for the mask
> (apply the mask, delete, show, edit, disable, to selection).
> This will make the layer menu shorter and easier to navigate on. (Only the
> Add layer masks will stay in the Layer menu).
> - add an option to apply transformation tools on a layer without affecting
> its layer mask.
>
> Finally, one thing I do a lot is to change the opacity of a layer with the
> mouse, move the cursor to the canvas and tip a keyboard shortcut (i.e to
> switch the active tool).
> Unfortunately, this does not work because the focus stays on the opacity
> slider, which is very frustrating (I have to first tip Escape every time).
> When the mouse cursor is on the canvas, keyboard shortcuts should trigger
> the action related to the canvas in priority, wherever the focus is.
>
> That said, I simply wanted to share with the community a feedback in a
> professional context where productivity matter and how changes can be done
> to improve the end-user experience.
> I think these changes could benefit to any user's workflow and could be
> integrated to the master branch since Gimp 3.0 is the opportunity for
> changes.
>
> Regards,
> Thomas Manni
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] batch processing

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

Imagemagick has a batch mode called "mogrify" so you can just use something
like this from the command line:

mogrify -format jpg -resize 3000 -define jpeg:extent=1000kb *.jpg

That will resize all jpegs in the directory to 3000px (height or width,
whichever is larger) and it will try to get close to 1000kb for the file
size.

For your use case you could also do:

mogrify -format jpg -resize 750 -quality 80 *.jpg

Hope it helps!

Note also that nautilus has the ability to be scripted with these commands
to execute on what you have selected.

I believe there is also already a script written for this to:


Install rotate and resize right-click functions:

sudo apt-get install nautilus-image-converter

restart of nautilus required


-C

On Sun, 11 Oct 2020, 06:41 Shlomi Fish,  wrote:

> Hi jcupitt !
>
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 17:05:18 +0100
> jcupitt--- via gimp-developer-list  wrote:
>
> > If you're comfortable at the command-line, imagemagick is very simple
> > and runs everywhere:
> >
> > https://imagemagick.org
> >
> > With bash you can enter:
> >
> > for i in *.jpg; do
> > convert $i --resize x768 resized_version_$i
> > done
>
> It is a good idea to wrap the $i in double quotes in bash and similar
> shells to
> prevent word splitting:
>
> * https://shlomif-tech.livejournal.com/14671.html
>
> * https://perl-begin.org/topics/security/code-markup-injection/
>
> >
> > My image processing package nip2 can batch-process in a GUI way,
> > though it's a bizarre program.
> >
> > https://github.com/libvips/nip2
> >
>
> Heh, it is nice that you admit that you think it is "bizarre". It shows
> maturity to admit that one's software application is not perfect.
>
> > 1. Start nip2
> > 2. Click "File / Open", navigate to the source directory, click on the
> > first image, shift-click on the last, click Open
> > 3. This will make a group of images, probably called A1. "Click
> > Toolkits / Image / Transform / Resize / Size to" to resize the group
> > 4. Select Vertical, 768, Lanczos3 in the scrap of GUI you see
> > 5. RIght-click on the name of the resize object (probably A2) and
> > select "Save as"
> > 6. In the dialog, navigate to a destination directory, enter eg.
> > "fred00.jpg" as the filename, and click Save
> > 7. The set of images will be saved as fred00.jpg, fred01.jpg, fred02.jpg
> etc.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 at 11:26, Drake Koefoed via gimp-developer-list
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > I would like to batch process a directory of images to h=768 retain
> aspect
> > > ratio.
> > >
> > > I have not seen a simple way to do this.  Something like the wonderful
> > > batch rename in Nautilus would be great if it exists or could be
> written.
> > > drakekoef...@mailfence.com
> > > ___
> > > gimp-developer-list mailing list
> > > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> > > List membership:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
> > > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
> > ___
> > gimp-developer-list mailing list
> > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> > List membership:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shlomi Fish   https://www.shlomifish.org/
> https://youtu.be/n6KAGqjdmsk - “Hurt Me Tomorrow”
>
> I also have versions of this code in COBOL.NET, Intercal, PDP‐10
> Assembly, J,
> APL, Windows NT 4.0 Batch script and Autocad Lisp — I’m sure you can handle
> all of them because none of them is Perl. ;-).
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - https://shlom.in/reply
> .
> ___
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Re: [Gimp-developer] liquid rescale plugin

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

I too would like to see this in GIMP by default.

Makes it easier to answer criticism like "GIMP doesn't have context aware
tools".

Very useful feature.

My 2p.
-C

On Thu, 4 Jun 2020, 16:35 jEsuSdA 8),  wrote:

> El 4/6/20 a las 16:29, Helmut Jarausch escribió:
>  > On 06/03/2020 07:40:03 PM, jEsuSdA 8) wrote:
>  >> Hi!
>  >>
>  >> Since long time ago I have been using the lqr (liquid rescale) plugin.
>  >>
>  >> As a web and graphical designer it is very useful to adjust any kind of
>  >> image to fits it into several design.
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> I noticed the plugin does not work anymore with Gimp 2.10.
>  >>
>  >> And I want ask you if there is any other way to do the same action. Is
>  >> there any other built-in or working plugin for doing liquid rescaling?
>  >>
>  >
>  > I've just recompiled gimp-lqr version 0.7.2 with a tiny patch - see
> below.
>  > It runs without error in GIMP GIT. I have no experience with it, so I
>  > cannot
>  > tell if works correct.
>  >
>  > Helmut
>  >
>  > Needed patch:
>  >
>  >   --- a/src/interface_I.c.ORIG2020-06-04 14:10:54.237033228 +0200
>  > +++ b/src/interface_I.c2020-06-04 14:19:20.898005308 +0200
>  > @@ -65,13 +65,13 @@
>  >
>  >   gint dialog_I_response = GTK_RESPONSE_OK;
>  >
>  > -PlugInUIVals *ui_state;
>  > -PlugInVals *state;
>  > -PlugInDialogVals *dialog_state;
>  > -gboolean features_are_sensitive;
>  > +extern PlugInUIVals *ui_state;
>  > +extern PlugInVals *state;
>  > +extern PlugInDialogVals *dialog_state;
>  > +extern gboolean features_are_sensitive;
>  >   InterfaceIData interface_I_data;
>  >
>  > -GtkWidget *dlg;
>  > +extern GtkWidget *dlg;
>  >   GtkWidget *coordinates;
>  >
>  >   gulong size_changed = 0;
>  > --- a/src/interface_aux.c.ORIG2020-06-04 14:10:54.237033228 +0200
>  > +++ b/src/interface_aux.c2020-06-04 14:21:52.512996954 +0200
>  > @@ -48,11 +48,11 @@
>  >
>  >   gint dialog_aux_response = GTK_RESPONSE_OK;
>  >
>  > -PlugInUIVals *ui_state;
>  > -PlugInVals *state;
>  > -PlugInDialogVals *dialog_state;
>  > +extern PlugInUIVals *ui_state;
>  > +extern PlugInVals *state;
>  > +extern PlugInDialogVals *dialog_state;
>  >
>  > -GtkWidget *dlg;
>  > +extern GtkWidget *dlg;
>  >
>  >   /***  Public functions  ***/
>  >
>
>
> El 4/6/20 a las 17:02, Lloyd Konneker via gimp-developer-list escribió:
>  > Possibly liquid rescale plugin will work now.  If you look at the github
>  > repository for the plugin, you can see that a bug was fixed recently.
>  > Maybe you just need to download a recent version.  If you say exactly
> what
>  > version of Gimp you are using, and where you downloaded the plugin,
> others
>  > might be able to help resolve whether there is any version of the plugin
>  > that works.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank all of you!
>
> I tested the github sources (I found it thanks to Lloyd) and the patch
> sent by Helmut and both of them works fine.
>
> Test:
> https://pasteall.org/media/4/e/4ebb1a2e53dd46a8dadac038f3e6b48b.png
>
>
> Thanks a lot!
> This is a "Gimp Must have" that really helps me to make my job more easy.
>
>
> As a suggestion, please, consider to add this plugin to gimp as a
> default tool. Users will be very grateful and happy!!
>
>
> Cheers!! ;)
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Re: [Gimp-developer] 2019 project report

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

Thanks to everyone for all the hard work in 2019!

-C

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020, 09:19 Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-developer-list, <
gimp-developer-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Our annual GIMP/GEGL report is out:
>
> https://www.gimp.org/news/2020/01/04/gimp-and-gegl-in-2019/
>
> Enjoy :)
>
> Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] About N-Point Deformation.

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

fwiw, it's been a very long time since this tool worked. I used to use it
all the time, so I miss it too. It's a shame it's abandoned, as it was one
of the power tools of GIMP.
I'd like to offer a bounty to get someone to fix it, however, all I can
offer is design work (logos, avatars, wallpapers, 3D stuff) and maybe some
fame in the form of a video of the tool, and who to thank for fixingit in
return, which I'm happy to do.

Any interested parties, just let me know. :) I'll sing your praises all
over the internet.

Thanks to everyone for the hard work on GIMP.
-C


On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 12:51 PM Alexandre Prokoudine via
gimp-developer-list  wrote:

> Hi Mario,
>
> I'm sorry to say that, but this tool is more or less abandoned and
> waiting for someone to pick it up and clean it up and complete it.
>
> Until then, it won't get any better than what you experience.
>
> Alex
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 2:44 PM Mario Mey via gimp-developer-list
>  wrote:
> >
> > [UPDATE]
> >
> > I tried several (not all) commits of GIMP and tested N-Point Deformation
> > tool. As I said before, about half of commits, this tool works very slow.
> > The other half, it crashes GIMP.
> >
> > QUESTION: Can I upload GIMP with flatpak to a version previous to the
> last
> > in the commit list? It is from 2018-10-27.
> >
> > Note: I'm on Debian 9 and the last version I tried (crash) is from
> > 2019-10-30. I also have another partition with Debian 10 with last
> version,
> > but I didn't test this tool there. If the tool crashes or not in actual
> > version is another issue. If it does, I'll report the bug, but for the
> > moment, I only need a version where I can use this tool fast and it
> doesn't
> > crash!
> >
> > El mar., 17 dic. 2019 a las 10:10, Mario Mey ()
> > escribió:
> >
> > > Hello there. I need to run GIMP in Debian 9 and I need N-Point
> Deformation
> > > tool. I installed from flatpak 2.10.14, but that tool crashes GIMP.
> So, I
> > > installed an old version, 2.10.0 RC2 (48MB flatpak file, from
> > > https://download.gimp.org/mirror/pub/gimp/v2.10/linux/). It works...
> but
> > > I saw that is an old version... and I don't really trust in this
> > > installation.
> > >
> > > Then, I learnt how to install a commit with flatpak. I tried to
> install a
> > > version from 2019/Jan. And it works... but N-Point Def tool works
> veeerryyy
> > > sloooww
> > >
> > > Does anybody knows if that tool is working well in a particular
> commit? I
> > > don't want to try eeeverryy commit.
> > >
> > > This is the list of commits:
> > >
> > > $ flatpak remote-info --log flathub org.gimp.GIMP
> > > GNU Image Manipulation Program - Create images
> and
> > > edit photographsID: org.gimp.GIMP
> > >
> Ref:
> > > app/org.gimp.GIMP/x86_64/stable
> > > Arch: x86_64
> > > Branch: stable
> > >  Version:
> 2.10.14
> > >
> > >License: GPL-3.0+ AND LGPL-3.0+
> > >   Collection: org.flathub.Stable
> > >   Download: 108.9 MB
> > >
> > > Installed: 308.1 MB
> > >  Runtime: org.gnome.Platform/x86_64/3.32
> > >
> > >Sdk: org.gnome.Sdk/x86_64/3.32
> > > Commit:
> > > 8003d469b2224a1abe54b45793c9692e822cacee860d94861f5fc5e43111a689
> > > Parent:
> > > 3fdfdf0963ba67629f287092229d9f5659bc9a2eeb1158c060b09d8a603acbcf
> > >Subject: Fix CPU detection on GEGL build. (3b047adf)
> > >   Date: 2019-10-30 00:56:11 +
> > >History:
> > >
> > > Commit:
> > > 3fdfdf0963ba67629f287092229d9f5659bc9a2eeb1158c060b09d8a603acbcf
> > >Subject: Fix typo! (a752f7df)
> > >   Date: 2019-09-02 20:28:05 +
> > >
> > > Commit:
> > > 798d8cd8a6a2ccf1bf21c0f5e9749dd4d97ecd511a3af1922d6fedf6c26e3a7c
> > >Subject: Release GIMP 2.10.12! (1366fa63)
> > >   Date: 2019-06-13 02:25:52 +
> > >
> > > Commit:
> > > 451758521226112dd7d4e2c4ce7fadaa93f69ce58c2f1afb70fb057db81f5e57
> > >Subject: Update to GEGL 0.4.16. (1d8cb1dd)
> > >   Date: 2019-05-09 05:02:52 +
> > >
> > > Commit:
> > > 5c8a3dc204a12d4695c5bb7e98ea3b3862d78e52c1cf0f9b021c1dae836ecc95
> > >Subject: Build GTK+2 with more patches. (d7578706)
> > >   Date: 2019-04-25 16:46:42 +
> > >
> > > Commit:
> > > fdbcfcbb8e5a4a6f484674208c6bbdf96c6e37fe2df21983a444069e5949276f
> > >Subject: Release GIMP 2.10.10! (781c0f7c)
> > >   Date: 2019-04-07 21:40:06 +
> > >
> > > Commit:
> > > 81dc4a6595d81ef6fe7b563dc046cf6dec2856a9628c1b8ff3178bf0547e6490
> > >Subject: Update some dependencies. (8cef7f17)
> > >   Date: 2019-04-04 18:14:23 +
> > >
> > > Commit:
> > > d0d12223774157ce64690d7096624741bdadc9490ac730ee2aa752eabf2ce0b1
> > >Subject: Downgrade ibus from shared-modules (d5d82037)
> > >   Date: 2019-04-03 20:07:35 +
> > >
> > > 

[Gimp-developer] Slight patches to the newest gimp logo

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

Hey folks, I see the GIMP logo has changed since 2.8.
I'd like to suggest the following patch to the logo, which improves the
overall look and scalability of the current design slightly.

Changes: made eye-outline black to better match the black outline effect of
the head, and added same width outline to paintbrush. The general graphics
rule for cartoony style logo with outlines is that IF you have them, they
all need to be the same colour. Otherwise, it makes the graphic look less
uniform.

Adding a slight black outline also makes the important shapes stand out
even when scaled very small.

I like all other changes to the logo, so well done whoever simplified it to
get rid of the blurred shadows from the 2.8 logo. :)

Please find the attached sample for review (new patched, version on the
right).

-C
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp logo

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

Ooops! Didn't see it was changed. Yes, mine is an older version, please go
with what Michael's version.

On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:11 AM Michael Natterer  wrote:

> On Tue, 2019-05-28 at 14:41 +0200, David wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm looking for the Gimp logo for use in film credits.
> >
> > Where can I find it in high quality?
>
>
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/blob/master/icons/Color/scalable/gimp-wilber.svg
>
> This is the current official logo. PLEASE don't use any of the
> other suggestions.
>
> Regards,
> Mitch
>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp logo

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

Sure. Feel free to add it to the repo. That's what I made it for. :)

No credit needed.

-C

On Wed, 29 May 2019, 08:44 Shlomi Fish,  wrote:

> On Wed, 29 May 2019 08:20:28 +0100
> C R via gimp-developer-list  wrote:
>
> > I also made this vector one in svg format, if that suits better:
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/ouqyez32cer1veq/gimp_2.8_logo.svg?dl=1
> >
> > -C
> >
>
> Thanks for sharing it. It looks great.
>
> > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 7:44 AM David 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm looking for the Gimp logo for use in film credits.
> > >
> > > Where can I find it in high quality?
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > David Rylander,
> > >
> > > Sweden
> > >
> > > --
> > > ***
> > > David Rylander
> > > Rylander animation
> > > Bergsrådsvägen 102, bv
> > > 12842 Bagarmossen
> > >
> > > tel: +46(0)708-461978
> > > www.rylanderanimation.se
> > > instagram: davidrylander
> > > twitter: RylanderAnim
> > > g+: rylle...@gmail.com
> > > ***
> > >
> > > ___
> > > gimp-developer-list mailing list
> > > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> > > List membership:
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
> > > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
> > >
> > ___
> > gimp-developer-list mailing list
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> > List membership:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>
>
>
> --
> -
> Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
> https://youtu.be/n6KAGqjdmsk - “Hurt Me Tomorrow”
>
> I hope that if it had not been clear before, it isn’t less clear now.
> — One of Shlomi Fish’s Technion Lecturers
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp logo

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

I also made this vector one in svg format, if that suits better:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ouqyez32cer1veq/gimp_2.8_logo.svg?dl=1

-C

On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 7:44 AM David  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for the Gimp logo for use in film credits.
>
> Where can I find it in high quality?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> David Rylander,
>
> Sweden
>
> --
> ***
> David Rylander
> Rylander animation
> Bergsrådsvägen 102, bv
> 12842 Bagarmossen
>
> tel: +46(0)708-461978
> www.rylanderanimation.se
> instagram: davidrylander
> twitter: RylanderAnim
> g+: rylle...@gmail.com
> ***
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Is there any way to free Gimp memory and avoid restarting it?

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

Does GIMP clear undo memory associated with images that have been closed
(without closing GIMP)?
Thanks for the great answers, everyone. I'm learning a lot about GIMP
memory management here!

-C

On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 9:14 AM Ofnuts  wrote:

> On 2/5/19 5:35 PM, jEsuSdA 8) wrote:
> > El 2/2/19 a las 9:58, Ofnuts escribió:
> >> The fact that the memory isn't marked free doesn't mean it is
> >> unusable. Tried in Gimp 2.10 on Ubuntu:
> >>
> >> - load 5 20MPx Jpegs: memory is 1.35GB
> >>
> >> - close all: memory still at 1.35GB
> >>
> >> - load them again: memory is 1.4GB
> >>
> >> - close all: memory still at 1.4GB
> >>
> >> - load them again: memory is 1.4GB
> >>
> >> - close all: memory still at 1.4GB
> >>
> >> So the memory seems reused...
> >
> > I was thinking about your tests and the values seems to be a bit
> > strange: I mean, I you load 5 images and Gimp takes 1.35GB Memory, why
> > when you close all the images gimp still taking 1.35GB instead of less
> > than?
> >
> > In the same way, if you load again the same images, why Gimp consumes
> > more memory and its memory consumption rises from 1.35 to 1.40... and,
> > again, when the images are closed the memory does not get back to a
> > lower value.
> >
> > I think this values can corroborate my theory about Gimp lack of
> > memory release I suffer and which is absolutely needed when working in
> > professional environments.
> >
> > Why Gimp does not free the memory?
> > Any idea?
>
>
> If memory was truly leaked,  I would have seen 1.35, 2.7, 4.05... Since
> there is no significant memory increase, we can assume that this memory
> is reused. For the rest, see Øyvind's answer.
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-web] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

GIMP is better than Photoshop for my purposes. No, it's not trying to copy
(which I think is the actual problem most people have with GIMP), and
therefore does some things differently as a result, and the tools are not a
one-to-one match (thankfully).
It's also free, completely cross-platform, and does not have nearly the
bloat that Photoshop has.
It's also faster on older hardware than Photoshop is with a tablet, but
maybe that's because GIMP doesn't require other bloated unfortunate
operating systems like windows and MacOS to run, both of which have their
own truly unfortunate set of restrictions.

What you want for illustration work is Krita. You should definitey look
more into it - It's a powerhouse of awesome features, which Photoshop users
would envy if they knew about them. Sure, you will have to get used to an
illustration workflow, but that's another reason why GIMP is seen as better
for photoediting tasks - That's really where it shines.

Disclaimer: I'm a career graphics and product designer, and after using
Photoshop from ver 2.5 (1992) all the way up to CS3, I decided to see how
much of my workflow I could switch to GIMP (mainly because of problems with
Windows and MacOS). After some initial growing pains, and a lot of GIMP UI
improvement over the years, I've been quite happily using GIMP every day
for work on cheap and light-weight laptops that barely run Windows 10
(forget about also running Photoshop).  GNU/Linux + GIMP allows me to do
this. (and Blender, Inkscape, Krita, etc.)

It seems people have no patience to learn new things or actually get
involved in a development community as the one that revolves around GIMP,
but these folks usually miss the point, and often the benefits of community
developed software.

-C

On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 5:48 AM Ken Moffat via gimp-developer-list <
gimp-developer-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 09, 2019 at 05:51:00AM +, Ryan Stark via
> gimp-developer-list wrote:
> > One question to ask is why are Procreate and Photoshop so popular with
> > digital painters and Photoshop wasn't even originally designed for this?
> > One major reason for this is the way the internal textures to the brushes
> > are handled. Photoshop isn't even super fast for painting but this
> feature
> > gives lovely brush textures. Clip Paint Studio does this but it does it
> in
> > a crap way.
> >
> I will note in passing that top-posting on developer mailing lists
> is generally regarded as bad form (on user lists it seems to be less
> unacceptable, although still a PITA), and even gmail can be beaten
> into shape for that.  But these 'digital painters' will need to
> speak up for themselves on either the -dev or -user lists before
> anyone will pay attention.
>
> Meanwhile, the gimp developers have made vast progress in the last
> year, for which I thank them (even if I don't agree with all their
> decisions re importing raw photos ;) : there are few developers, and
> they do not have infinite time to work on whatever interests them.
> I will suggest that this thread is a distraction to them and will go
> nowhere unless you are either willing to provide code, or to find
> someone whom you can sponsor to produce the code.
>
> I hope I will speak for most people here when I say that I don't use
> Photoshop and I had never heard of Procreate until you mentioned it.
> As a user of libre software, to me they appear to be irrelevant.
>
> ĸen
> --
> Take three of these a minute for four minutes.  Don't take with
> alcohol or you'll grow an extra head.
>   -- The Doctor
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Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-web] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

My GIMP pet peeves list is much longer than this, but I also see the
tremendous work being done by so very few dedicated individuals, and this
is why I temper my complaints with patience, understanding and gratitude.

It's more helpful for people to be involved with the project, and take time
to get to know what's being worked on, where help is needed, rather than
state everything that's wrong all at once as an overall criticism.

Those after a quick fix should definitely use other software, or fund
development as was suggested. It's probably not reasonable for most
designers to up and learn to code to fix what is broken in GIMP, but
kindness, encouragement, and patience is always appreciated. The more work
you do in the project, the better equipped you become to truly help.

It's community software after all. :)

PS- Inkscape does have diagonal guides as well. I have to say, they mostly
just get in the way. :)

To each their own.

-C



On Wed, 9 Jan 2019, 00:43 Simon Budig  Hi Ryan.
>
> Your collection of pet peeves is impressive. Yet I believe that your
> generalization that they must affect everybody is blown way out of
> proportion.
>
> Ryan Stark via gimp-developer-list (gimp-developer-list@gnome.org) wrote:
> > So many of Gimp's features seem unfinished. For example, look at the
> > guides. There are horizontal and vertical guides similar to Inkscape in
> > operation yet no diagonal guides which would be an obvious addition.
>
> Why not go a step further? Have e.g. bezier shaped guides you could
> manipulate freely? Wouldn't that be wonderful?
>
> Wait, thats already there. Never mind. What was your point again?
>
> > Applying any dynamics to a brush causes Gimp to go at an absolute snail's
> > pace. Why? And why on earth are all those hideous brushes, patterns etc
> > still included in Gimp when there are other better and free ones
> available?
> > This makes Gimp look very poor to any new user.
>
> Brushes and Patterns may get referenced by user scripts. We consider it
> a bad thing to break compatibility for no good reason (and "someone
> might not like this pattern" is not a good reason).
>
> Suggestions for new good patterns with a clear and unambigous statement
> about them being in the public domain are welcome.
>
> > The little sliders to
> > adjust values are not very good and text entry is horrible.
>
> Please elaborate.
>
> > You can't go
> > from from single window mode to multiple without your layout being messed
> > up.
>
> Works for me. What window manager do you use?
>
> > Having a UI like this without being able to save your windows layouts
> > is crazy.
>
> My window layout gets remembered. Again: What window manager do you
> use?
>
> > I've encountered many bugs and a few crashes in Gimp 2.10 which
> > never used to happen. For example there is some kind of problem where
> > certain actions with a mouse or pen causes docked tabs to constantly
> break
> > free without reason.
>
> Gimp 2.10 is pretty much rock solid for me. No idea what you're witnessing.
>
> > The problem is that some people may be prepared for a few problems,
> report
> > a few bugs etc but then it just gets tedious and they move to another
> app.
> > I believe many will do this with Gimp.
> > As for any contribution I could make, that would only be with using Gimp
> as
> > a painting app and the brushes because I've been through the brush
> engines
> > of just about every app out there. This is why I like Mypaint and the new
> > features. However, every time I try to use Gimp I end up in other
> programs,
> > including Clip Paint Studio which I run in Wine. I would much rather use
> > Gimp.
>
> But why don't you use the tool that works best for you? Why do you
> insist on using Gimp if it is as bad as you claim it to be?
>
> If Clip Paint Studio does everything you need, why switch?
>
> And I do mean this: I stopped evangelizing in favor of Gimp ages ago. If
> someone is happy with a tool there is nothing to gain to convince them
> to use a different tool, it always results in frustration about the fact
> that GIMP is different from the other tool.
>
> And it also leads to a lot of frustration on the developer side, because
> we then do get the pressure to align GIMP with the behaviour of the
> random other tool, because that is the one true way (tm) on how certain
> workflows have to work.
>
> > What are the solutions to these problems? I don't really know but i think
> > once some bad design decisions are made with an app it is very hard to
> fix
> > things. The developers or at least some developer who has a vision on how
> > to improve things is the most crucial component. I think the problem
> with a
> > lot of software is that the developers do not use the software
> extensively
> > or study how other programs do things.
>
> That is true and this matches our experience. We have a ton of bad
> decisions in the GIMP codebase (Images are always 8-bit RGB, right?) and
> their legacy haunts us to this very day, 

Re: [Gimp-developer] Please Help

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

Haha, just on April 1st, and only when you have not opened a document in a
while? Wow, that is an obscure Easter egg. I feel really hard-core to have
found that one!
I think until someone complains (for real), it's probably fine. Maybe patch
it to flash some other colour? Like purple, so it's not as symbolically
evil? Maybe make them actual easter eggs, or the notorious GIMP bell
pepper? :)



On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 10:19 PM Elle Stone 
wrote:

> On 12/12/2018 04:14 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-developer-list wrote:
> > Easter eggs that only show up on April 1 are that bad?
>
> Perhaps creepy red flashing eyes (relying on CR's description) isn't the
> sort of thing that makes people happy, generally speaking? What do you
> think?
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Please Help

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

Or a reminder of GIMP's independent nature. I found it a bit cool that I
located an Easter egg. But yea, could be cause for alarm or mistrust.

I doubt any of this is this user's problem.

Hopefully they will reply with more info.

-C

On Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 13:59 Elle Stone  On 12/12/2018 07:28 AM, C R via gimp-developer-list wrote:
> > Maybe. The eyes flash red under certain circumstances. It's quite
> creepy...
> > Though this is not a new thing in GIMP.:)
>
> If this is an actual fact - that sometimes Wilbur's eyes flash a color -
>   then here is a request that this very odd "feature" be considered a
> bug and removed.
>
> Creepy flashing eye colors randomly appearing under "certain
> circumstances" is not the sort of behavior that instills confidence in
> one's editing software.
>
> Best regards,
> Elle
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Please Help

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

>
> Maybe the OP doesn't like Wilber's head in the empty image window.
>

Maybe. The eyes flash red under certain circumstances. It's quite creepy...
Though this is not a new thing in GIMP. :)



>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

>
>
> Everything started because I was called a "backseat viewer", and therefore
> not allowed to say that scheduled releases are good. After that I was
> replying to that attitude, and not about whether rolling releases are
> better (which I had an extremely open mind about).
>

You said all sorts of things, made all sorts of assumptions. He's not wrong
about that. You were complaining about things that are factually wrong,
then when told you were wrong about those things, you got upset... like way
upset. :)


> The message you quoted is way after things started going bad.
>

That bit seemed pretty civil up until that statement. Redit makes it hard
to tell, I just followed the first path I found. If you came back later to
continue the rant at that point it all says "5 days ago". But whatever.


> As for your comparison with Starbucks, I don't abuse Starbucks employees
> and neither I abuse GIMP's staff.
>

You're not complaining about your coffee, you're complaining on what day
the coffee is getting better, and implying that GIMP doesn't listen to
their users (to which Alex rightly pointed out that all the 2.10 stuff
users asked for was done).

Making negative assumptions about GIMP developers is abusive, especially in
a community you don't know anything about. GIMP is community maintained
software, and Alex has been a part of that community for ages. So yes, you
will find that he knows much more than you do about the inner workings of
GIMP. He's on #gimp all the time and is helpful in lots of ways as an
active part of the community. You'd do well to listen, take the criticism,
and work on your own communication skills before jumping in and demanding
that no one hurt your feelers, because I don't see you trying very hard to
control your own temper in these threads.



> I also don't care about harsh words, I'm not a little snowflake.
>

You should. It's community software. Leveling abuse at volunteers trying to
make better software for you for free is kind of a dick move.


> I just want to know if GIMP is represented by Alexandre like he implies,
> and if the GIMP team is OK with attacking newbies and critics of GIMP
> saying they're backseat drivers that are not worth listening to and not
> worth explaining things.
>

You were not attacked. You were corrected. Show us how much you're not a
snowflake and be a bit civil yourself.


> I'm not the only one who shares the view that in GIMP there is this
> attitude of "if you didn't make it, you're not allowed to talk bad about
> it".
>

Nowhere did anyone keep you from talking about it. Not on Reddit, and not
on this mailing list.

If that's the culture at GIMP, I'm not gonna cry. Just say it.
>

Be nice, and you can expect the same in most circumstances. That's not just
GIMP culture, that's life in general.

-C


>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 16:00 C R  wrote:
>
>> From a third party perspective, this is where things kicked off in the
>> thread:
>>
>> "I didn't say you didn't include any features users ask for, I was just
>> justifying me complaining.
>>
>> Why do you guys have to get so pissy so quickly, is it GIMP's code that
>> makes you that, or you have to pass a "constantly-pissed-off" exam to
>> become a GIMP dev?
>> Jesus..."
>>
>> What baffles me is why people start ranting on forums, making all sorts
>> of wrong assumptions about GIMP dev motivations, and then expect everyone
>> involved to stumble over themselves trying to please them.
>>
>> This is not Starbucks - Abuse of staff will not go unchallenged. :)
>>
>> Frankly, I'm astounded at Alexandre's restraint.
>>
>> Just an outsider's perspective.
>> -C
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 2:01 PM Alexandre Prokoudine via
>> gimp-developer-list  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:48 PM Niccolo Brogi 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Regarding CCing people, my thread hasn't been approved, so I don't
>>> know if
>>> > people can read it.
>>> >
>>> > Regarding the rest, you don't have to present exhibits, we're not in
>>> > court. I'm giving you feedback about your behavior as someone who
>>> > represents the whole team (unless I got your pronuons wrong, you keep
>>> > saying "we"--possibly to give authority to your arguments--and you
>>> > misrepresent yourself as a developer of GIMP).
>>> >
>>>
>>> I have never claimed to be developer of GIMP, publicly or privately --
>>> you
>>> have zero proof of your claim. I actually correct people when they call
>>> me
>>> a developer, and I have enough verifiable proof o

Re: [Gimp-developer] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

And again, nothing is learned. More name calling, and it's everyone else
that's the problem.

If anyone else wondering why the sarcasm all the time, look in the mirror.
lol


On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:25 PM Niccolo Brogi  wrote:

> Fair enough. I guess people (total of 3 different people) that PMed me are
> dicks, too.
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 16:59 C R  wrote:
>
>>
>>> Everything started because I was called a "backseat viewer", and
>>> therefore not allowed to say that scheduled releases are good. After that I
>>> was replying to that attitude, and not about whether rolling releases are
>>> better (which I had an extremely open mind about).
>>>
>>
>> You said all sorts of things, made all sorts of assumptions. He's not
>> wrong about that. You were complaining about things that are factually
>> wrong, then when told you were wrong about those things, you got upset...
>> like way upset. :)
>>
>>
>>> The message you quoted is way after things started going bad.
>>>
>>
>> That bit seemed pretty civil up until that statement. Redit makes it hard
>> to tell, I just followed the first path I found. If you came back later to
>> continue the rant at that point it all says "5 days ago". But whatever.
>>
>>
>>> As for your comparison with Starbucks, I don't abuse Starbucks employees
>>> and neither I abuse GIMP's staff.
>>>
>>
>> You're not complaining about your coffee, you're complaining on what day
>> the coffee is getting better, and implying that GIMP doesn't listen to
>> their users (to which Alex rightly pointed out that all the 2.10 stuff
>> users asked for was done).
>>
>> Making negative assumptions about GIMP developers is abusive, especially
>> in a community you don't know anything about. GIMP is community maintained
>> software, and Alex has been a part of that community for ages. So yes, you
>> will find that he knows much more than you do about the inner workings of
>> GIMP. He's on #gimp all the time and is helpful in lots of ways as an
>> active part of the community. You'd do well to listen, take the criticism,
>> and work on your own communication skills before jumping in and demanding
>> that no one hurt your feelers, because I don't see you trying very hard to
>> control your own temper in these threads.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I also don't care about harsh words, I'm not a little snowflake.
>>>
>>
>> You should. It's community software. Leveling abuse at volunteers trying
>> to make better software for you for free is kind of a dick move.
>>
>>
>>> I just want to know if GIMP is represented by Alexandre like he implies,
>>> and if the GIMP team is OK with attacking newbies and critics of GIMP
>>> saying they're backseat drivers that are not worth listening to and not
>>> worth explaining things.
>>>
>>
>> You were not attacked. You were corrected. Show us how much you're not a
>> snowflake and be a bit civil yourself.
>>
>>
>>> I'm not the only one who shares the view that in GIMP there is this
>>> attitude of "if you didn't make it, you're not allowed to talk bad about
>>> it".
>>>
>>
>> Nowhere did anyone keep you from talking about it. Not on Reddit, and not
>> on this mailing list.
>>
>> If that's the culture at GIMP, I'm not gonna cry. Just say it.
>>>
>>
>> Be nice, and you can expect the same in most circumstances. That's not
>> just GIMP culture, that's life in general.
>>
>> -C
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 16:00 C R  wrote:
>>>
>>>> From a third party perspective, this is where things kicked off in the
>>>> thread:
>>>>
>>>> "I didn't say you didn't include any features users ask for, I was
>>>> just justifying me complaining.
>>>>
>>>> Why do you guys have to get so pissy so quickly, is it GIMP's code that
>>>> makes you that, or you have to pass a "constantly-pissed-off" exam to
>>>> become a GIMP dev?
>>>> Jesus..."
>>>>
>>>> What baffles me is why people start ranting on forums, making all sorts
>>>> of wrong assumptions about GIMP dev motivations, and then expect everyone
>>>> involved to stumble over themselves trying to please them.
>>>>
>>>> This is not Starbucks - Abuse of staff will not go unchallenged. :)
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, I'm astounded at Alexandre's re

Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-web] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

Well clearly he was harassing you with his facts and sarcasm.

You'll pull through though. I believe in you!
I've got to go now though. Have fun with whatever this is.

(thread muted)

-C


On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, 11:42 Niccolo Brogi  Why, Alexandre causes trauma..? I thought he was nice.
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:40 PM C R  wrote:
>
>> Happy you've found that support group you were looking for. :)
>>
>> Wishing you a speedy trauma recovery,
>> -C
>>
>> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, 11:04 Niccolo Brogi >
>>> ...in the meantime, I'm getting emails from people that see the whole
>>> thing exactly like me, and I assume fear harassment and won't say it out
>>> loud.
>>>
>>> How sad is this culture you've created.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 9:50 AM C R  wrote:
>>>
>>>> As someone who has worked many years alongside (at the desk next to)
>>>> customer service reps, I can verify that no amount of organisation or
>>>> pleasantries can quell the entitlement of anyone who thinks you owe them
>>>> something. Be that x feature in GIMP, or x release date for the next GIMP.
>>>> People are very much the same in that regard, and it's crushing to have to
>>>> deal with it all the time.
>>>>
>>>> People can be banned from the mailing list if they make too much of a
>>>> fuss, but I have to say Alexander's way of handling things is a nearly
>>>> flawless mix of not taking any shit (which, after all, why should GIMP
>>>> contribs suffer this after donating time to provide free software for the
>>>> world?) and being concise and helpful to those who approach with a
>>>> constructive attitude (as part of the community).
>>>>
>>>> We have not always seen eye to eye on things, but I'm always learning
>>>> stuff about handing trollish behaviour from this mailing list, thanks
>>>> primarily to Alex, also recognising the behaviour in myself and doing my
>>>> best to avoid making the same mistakes as people who can only complain
>>>> rather than be helpful (Alex PMs me if I go to far to the ranty side, even
>>>> in his defence). So that definitely isn't broken.
>>>>
>>>> Alex saves us on a regular basis from having to deal with trolls on all
>>>> our media platforms while keeping all ports of communication open for our
>>>> users.
>>>>
>>>> Every project should have one, but he's ours! ;)
>>>>
>>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>> -C
>>>> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, 08:17 Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-developer-list
>>>> >>>
>>>>> пт, 16 нояб. 2018 г., 6:40 Trevor Rose tarose.tre...@gmail.com:
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 3 — the solution to the problem is to tighten up your communications
>>>>> > channels, and to use some other technology rather than just an email
>>>>> group,
>>>>> > and in which alternative system a person must be logged in, and each
>>>>> post,
>>>>> > thread and comment/reply is not only better organised, but can be
>>>>> > identified as per user ID, GROUP, and ROLE ... PLUS AND MOST
>>>>> IMPORTANTLY
>>>>> > you can constrain each unit of communication by using mandatory
>>>>> fields and
>>>>> > filters, in order to force clearer communication and remove some
>>>>> amount of
>>>>> > abuse, while also being able to ban anyone who takes their passion
>>>>> beyond
>>>>> > an accepted threshold/limit.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Trevor,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm afraid I'm not a big believer in technical constraints as means to
>>>>> manage a community. We have a history of making it difficult for
>>>>> people to
>>>>> contribute to GIMP in any way. I would hesitate to make it even harder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your suggestion boils down to making initial communication more
>>>>> complicated
>>>>> while, indeed, more structured. It also seems to suggest some sort of
>>>>> pre-moderation which puts a heavier burden on those of us involved with
>>>>> moderation.
>>>>>
>>>>> So mailing lists are a tool that keeps communication open enough and
>>>>> takes
>>>>> just about the right amount of time to keep our sanity at the cost of
>>>>> rare
>>>>> outbursts like this one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having said all that, I would still appreciate examples of what you
>>>>> consider superior communication channels.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex
>>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>>> gimp-developer-list mailing list
>>>>> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
>>>>> List membership:
>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
>>>>> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Niccolo.
>>>
>> --
> Niccolo.
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-web] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

As someone who has worked many years alongside (at the desk next to)
customer service reps, I can verify that no amount of organisation or
pleasantries can quell the entitlement of anyone who thinks you owe them
something. Be that x feature in GIMP, or x release date for the next GIMP.
People are very much the same in that regard, and it's crushing to have to
deal with it all the time.

People can be banned from the mailing list if they make too much of a fuss,
but I have to say Alexander's way of handling things is a nearly flawless
mix of not taking any shit (which, after all, why should GIMP contribs
suffer this after donating time to provide free software for the world?)
and being concise and helpful to those who approach with a constructive
attitude (as part of the community).

We have not always seen eye to eye on things, but I'm always learning stuff
about handing trollish behaviour from this mailing list, thanks primarily
to Alex, also recognising the behaviour in myself and doing my best to
avoid making the same mistakes as people who can only complain rather than
be helpful (Alex PMs me if I go to far to the ranty side, even in his
defence). So that definitely isn't broken.

Alex saves us on a regular basis from having to deal with trolls on all our
media platforms while keeping all ports of communication open for our users.

Every project should have one, but he's ours! ;)

Just my thoughts.
-C

On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, 08:17 Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-developer-list <
gimp-developer-list@gnome.org wrote:

> пт, 16 нояб. 2018 г., 6:40 Trevor Rose tarose.tre...@gmail.com:
>
> >
> > 3 — the solution to the problem is to tighten up your communications
> > channels, and to use some other technology rather than just an email
> group,
> > and in which alternative system a person must be logged in, and each
> post,
> > thread and comment/reply is not only better organised, but can be
> > identified as per user ID, GROUP, and ROLE ... PLUS AND MOST IMPORTANTLY
> > you can constrain each unit of communication by using mandatory fields
> and
> > filters, in order to force clearer communication and remove some amount
> of
> > abuse, while also being able to ban anyone who takes their passion beyond
> > an accepted threshold/limit.
> >
>
> Hi Trevor,
>
> I'm afraid I'm not a big believer in technical constraints as means to
> manage a community. We have a history of making it difficult for people to
> contribute to GIMP in any way. I would hesitate to make it even harder.
>
> Your suggestion boils down to making initial communication more complicated
> while, indeed, more structured. It also seems to suggest some sort of
> pre-moderation which puts a heavier burden on those of us involved with
> moderation.
>
> So mailing lists are a tool that keeps communication open enough and takes
> just about the right amount of time to keep our sanity at the cost of rare
> outbursts like this one.
>
> Having said all that, I would still appreciate examples of what you
> consider superior communication channels.
>
> Alex
> ___
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> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Three cheers for GIMP! (was Re: ...attacks on GIMP critics around the Web)

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

I second that. Thanks to everyone who makes GIMP awesome.

No need to use Photoshop instead though, just be constructive.

If you see yourself as part of the community, you realise you're talking
with friends working for a common goal. This is the attitude that motivates
change to make GIMP better for everyone. A bit of patience helps too. :)

-C


On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:12 PM Chris Moller  wrote:

> I haven't a clue if the GIMP devs are paid for doing it or if it's just
> something they do but, regardless, it's a fabulous piece of software
> that merits thanks, not b1tching.  If you don't like it, downgrade to
> photoshop.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

> What falsehoods have I been spreading?
>

Because copy/pasting your own quotes to you from Reddit, which are still
there, is a good use of anyone's time.

Let's start with this: "by not setting dates to releases we
tell users to "f*** off"

Did you say that? Did you edit it away after the fact?
Don't feign innocence, you're not convincing anyone.



> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 5:39 PM C R  wrote:
>
>> I said spreading falsehoods about GIMP was a "dick move", and it is.
>> I ended my last reply with "look in the mirror" as in, look how you're
>> treating people in the GIMP community. Is that how you want to be treated?
>> No? Then stop it. :)
>>
> --
> Niccolo.
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

I said spreading falsehoods about GIMP was a "dick move", and it is.
I ended my last reply with "look in the mirror" as in, look how you're
treating people in the GIMP community. Is that how you want to be treated?
No? Then stop it. :)
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[C R via gimp-developer-list]

From a third party perspective, this is where things kicked off in the
thread:

"I didn't say you didn't include any features users ask for, I was just
justifying me complaining.

Why do you guys have to get so pissy so quickly, is it GIMP's code that
makes you that, or you have to pass a "constantly-pissed-off" exam to
become a GIMP dev?
Jesus..."

What baffles me is why people start ranting on forums, making all sorts of
wrong assumptions about GIMP dev motivations, and then expect everyone
involved to stumble over themselves trying to please them.

This is not Starbucks - Abuse of staff will not go unchallenged. :)

Frankly, I'm astounded at Alexandre's restraint.

Just an outsider's perspective.
-C



On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 2:01 PM Alexandre Prokoudine via
gimp-developer-list  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:48 PM Niccolo Brogi  wrote:
>
> > Regarding CCing people, my thread hasn't been approved, so I don't know
> if
> > people can read it.
> >
> > Regarding the rest, you don't have to present exhibits, we're not in
> > court. I'm giving you feedback about your behavior as someone who
> > represents the whole team (unless I got your pronuons wrong, you keep
> > saying "we"--possibly to give authority to your arguments--and you
> > misrepresent yourself as a developer of GIMP).
> >
>
> I have never claimed to be developer of GIMP, publicly or privately -- you
> have zero proof of your claim. I actually correct people when they call me
> a developer, and I have enough verifiable proof of that.
>
> If you think that continuos piling of factually wrong statements will help
> your cause, I suggest you rethink your stategy.
>
>
> > Take this feedback however you want. So can the rest of the team, but
> > considering you've been speaking on their behalf it's important that they
> > know what you're doing and that people aren't happy. If your behavior is
> > appropriate for someone who represents the team, good to know. If it's
> not,
> > don't speak on behalf of everyone else and at that point you can be as
> much
> > of an asshole as you want with both newbies and people who disagree with
> > you.
> >
>
> I will have to point out that name-calling, which you once again went for,
> is not welcome on our mailing lists as per code of conduct:
>
> https://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html
>
> "Please make sure that you add value to the discussion, avoid repetitive
> arguments, flamewars, trolling, and personal attacks."
>
> Please consider rethinking your interaction here.
>
> Good day to you.
>
> Alex
>
>
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 14:28 Alexandre Prokoudine <
> > alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 3:46 PM Niccolo Brogi 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> OK. If you're bad at talking to people (since people come with
> >>> misconceptions although you could easily change that), as someone who
> >>> doesn't only speak for himself, you should just not talk to people.
> >>>
> >>> It's also not just me,  many people have the same problem with you. I
> >>> guess it's you against the world.
> >>>
> >>> Let's see if the rest of the team is aware of your behavior, and --in
> >>> case they have the courage to approve my message or at least reply--if
> they
> >>> approve of it (BTW, why don't you CC them, if you are so sure your
> behavior
> >>> is OK?).
> >>>
> >>
> >> I don't need to CC people who are already subscribed to the mailing
> lists
> >> you posted to. This is how mailing lists essentially work: people get
> >> emails sent to those list.
> >>
> >>
> >>> I have thick skin (mind you, some people that have messeged me don't as
> >>> much, and are still upset about your attacks and were in tears),
> >>>
> >>
> >> Oh yes, about that. The allegations. Since there have been only two
> other
> >> problematic cases with users in the past week, I'm confident I can
> pinpoint
> >> the relevant threads.
> >>
> >> Exhibit A:
> >>
> >> >>> A day or two ago I dared criticize GIMP [...] and that alexlg guy
> >> came off the ropes so hard I was literally in tears over it. Just
> wanted to
> >> tell you how validating it was to see you jousting over the exact same
> >> ground with him just a few days earlier.
> >>
> >> This is this very thread:
> >>
> >>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9vneh8/gimp_2108_released/e9ex8sl/
> >>
> >> There was a quite justified complaint that text layers are hard to use
> in
> >> GIMP, which I readily agreed with. Nevertheless, this user came to say
> that
> >> lack of maturity of that feature is present because of GIMP team's
> "mindset
> >> of "you don't need it" and "we don't like it"". The harshest thing I
> said
> >> in response was point out evidence of the contrary, then saying
> "Facts...
> >> Always such an inconvenient thing, isn't it? :)".
> >>
> >> I'd love to see here the cause of alleged tears or coming hard off the
> >> ropes.
> >>
> >> And Exhibit B:
> >>
> >> >>> [...] He even went so far as to mention me by name in another 

Re: [Gimp-developer] Learning about GIMP

[C R]

Fortunately you can see exactly how developers are making modifications to
GIMP on gitlab:

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp

So the easy answer is that developers use a system called git to commit
changes to GIMP.

Hope it helps.

-C

On Tue, 19 Jun 2018, 07:30 Alexandre Prokoudine, <
alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 4:18 PM, jonathan henrick wrote:
>
> > Hello guys im doing a univeristy work and i need that you guys describe
> the process about changes at GIMP
>
> That sounds kike a very inspecific request to do your homework :)
>
> What do you need to know _exactly_?
>
> Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Symantec reports a virus when downloading 2.10 for Windows

[C R]

Likewise, make sure you only download from GIMP.org

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:56 AM, Jernej Simončič  wrote:
> On Monday, May 7, 2018, 12:24:59, Casper Børgesen wrote:
>
>> I expect the your file to be fine and Symantec to falsely detect it as
>> containing a virus.
>
> We can't do anything about that - report the problem to Symantec or
> switch to a less broken security product.
>
> --
> < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< https://eternallybored.org/ >
>
> If you can't fix it, feature it.
>-- Loman's law of product design
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] ANNOUNCE: GIMP 2.10.0 released

[C R]

Thanks for all the work! Well deserved beers indeed!

Cheers!
-C

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 5:31 PM, Shlomi Fish  wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 16:44:32 +0200
> Michael Natterer  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> After 6 years of development...
>>
>> We just released GIMP 2.10.0 \o/
>>
>
> thanks!
>
>> This is the first release of the new stable 2.10 series.
>>
>> For a complete list of changes since 2.10.0-RC2 please see the
>> "Changes" section below.
>>
>> There is also a release announcement on www.gimp.org:
>>
>> https://www.gimp.org/news/2018/04/27/gimp-2-10-0-released/
>>
>> Detailed release notes for 2.10, including many
>> screenshots and videos of new features, can be found here:
>>
>> https://www.gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.10.html
>>
>> Also, we're going to have some beers now...
>>
>> Happy GIMPing,
>> --Mitch
>>
>>
>> Download
>> 
>>
>>   GIMP 2.10.0 is available from:
>>
>>   https://download.gimp.org/pub/gimp/v2.10/
>>
>>   and from the mirrors listed at:
>>
>>   https://www.gimp.org/downloads/devel/#mirrors
>>
>>   The checksum of the tarball is:
>>
>>   5e91357ede5a5d5cb0db981ff8f9726c  gimp-2.10.0.tar.bz2
>>
>>
>> Overview of Changes from GIMP 2.10.0 RC2 to GIMP 2.10.0
>> ===
>>
>> Core:
>>
>>   - CLI option --show-playground visible in --help.
>>   - Sample point dockable now works with more than 4 sample points.
>>   - Various warnings removed, multi-threading officially not
>> "experimental" anymore…
>>   - Various fill and fade operations now use the current paint
>> composite mode, allowing for instance filling to paint over
>> transparent areas.
>>   - Default layer and paint modes are now Normal (instead of Legacy).
>>   - Be smarter about layer modes for new layers.
>>   - Get rid of the remaining places that were using the NORMAL_LEGACY
>> mode by default (painting, some more).
>>   - Improve painting speed even more by even more evil C++.
>>   - Flipping drawables is much faster because it's now working
>> tile-by-tile.
>>   - Gradient rendering is now much faster, using a cache.
>>
>> Plug-ins:
>>
>>   - Ripple plugin removed, compat PDB-API "plug-in-ripple" added
>> instead.
>>
>> PDB:
>>
>>   - New procedure: gimp-item-transform-translate.
>>   - Make gimp-item-transform-* transform linked items too.
>>   - Deprecate gimp-color-balance and gimp-layer-translate.
>>
>> Assets / Resources:
>>
>>   - New "Fun" category for brushes (moving the "Pepper" there, which
>> also gets improved resolution), and adding Wilber and GEGL brushes.
>>   - "Structure" brush obsoleted.
>>   - 5 new and more serious brushes.
>>
>> Translations:
>>
>>   - 6 translations were updated: Catalan, Danish, Finnish, Korean,
>> Polish, Swedish.
>>
>>
>> Contributors
>> 
>>
>>   Aryeom Han, Ell, Jehan, Matt Kraai, Michael Natterer, Pat David,
>>   Simon Budig, Ville Pätsi, luz.paz, Øyvind Kolås.
>>
>>
>> Translators
>> ===
>>
>>   Alan Mortensen, Anders Jonsson, Aryeom Han, Jordi Mas, Michael
>>   Natterer, Piotr Drąg, Simon Budig, Timo Jyrinki.
>>
>> ___
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>
>
>
> --
> -
> Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
> The Case for File Swapping - http://shlom.in/file-swap
>
> I'd rather live with a good question than a bad answer. — Aryeh Frimer
> — https://twitter.com/Marenda/status/752220030272729088
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Mandatory Use of GIMP?

[C R]

GIMP is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT
ANY SMOKEABILITY; without even the implied warranty of SMOKEABILITY or
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULARLY INEXPENSIVE HIGH.  See the GNU General
Public License for more details.

On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 10:52 PM, Michael Schumacher  wrote:
> On 04/23/2018 11:49 PM, Andrew Keene wrote:
>
>> Are you aware of any hacktivists involved with your development [...]
> We're reading this mail in the GIMP HQ during our
> pre-Libre-Graphics-Meeting stay in Sevilla and are just as surprised as
> you, dear fellow readers.
>
> Neither did anyone of the group write it in any heightened state of
> awareness.
>
> Honest.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Michael
> GPG: 96A8 B38A 728A 577D 724D 60E5 F855 53EC B36D 4CDD
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Mandatory Use of GIMP?

[C R]

As a designer who uses the latest development builds of GIMP every day in
production, and also the latest Krita, I can confirm there is no such code
in GIMP, nor in the 9 or so years in which I have used GIMP have I
encountered any of the issues described. I've always gotten GIMP from
GIMP.org and from official development repositories. Do be careful where
you get your GIMP!

-C


On Tue, 24 Apr 2018, 23:04 Simon Budig,  wrote:

> Hi Andrew.
>
> Andrew Keene (amke...@outlook.com) wrote:
> > Are you aware of any hacktivists involved with your development who
> > might use Denial of Service attacks against open source competitors?
> > You software is pretty good for a free open source image editing
> > program, but I have on several instances had the following experience:
> >
> >   1.  Sometimes, after installing GIMP, my system acts as if it has
> >   been hacked and I have to reinstall everything.
> >   2.  On several instances, I have found that sites like Krita.org
> >   become unavailable when I attempt to download their software.
> >
> > Is it possible that some worthless, petty piece of shit is
> > manipulating your very generous contribution to the world to further
> > an agenda of sociopathy? Do you thoroughly vet contributors for their
> > totalitarian goals?
>
> We are unaware of any activity in this direction and we are certain that
> the binaries distributed by us (gimp.org) don't contain anything that
> targets competitor products.
>
> That having said we have seen instances where gimp downloads from other
> sites were tainted with code not approved by us, hampering the user
> experience of the victim. If you've downloaded Gimp from any source and
> find it containing stuff you think that shouldn't be there, then we'd
> like to know about this including the site you've downloaded GIMP from,
> so that we can actually issue a specific warning.
>
> And for the records: we - speaking for the gimp development team here -
> are perfectly happy with people choosing their tool according to their
> tastes, we're perfectly fine if someone prefers Photoshop, Krita or
> anything else over GIMP.
>
> Bye,
> Simon
> --
>   si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Participation at Apple Developer Program

[C R]

> I just wanted to add that Kris is the person who makes things happen in
> GIMP for macOS. As far as I am concerned, as said earlier, he is therefore
> the one who should call the shots regarding such macOS build questions,
> rather than a vote (unless he wants to decide through a vote himself)
> because in the end, he is the one who has to make the grunt work here (as a
> volunteer, I remind).

+1
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSoC project query

[C R]

Is it possible to task the student(s) with getting more GEGL integration?
GIMP really needs that to speed up image processing and previews.

I mean like REALLY REALLY needs that more than just about any new toys
they can dream up. :)

My 2p.
-C

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine
 wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:04 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote:
>
>> Having read the above I had the idea that it could be worth having a student
>> work on one or more of the previous GSoC projects
>
> Google is usually extremely unhappy with this.
>
> Alex
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[Gimp-developer] Unified transform preview speed-up

[C R]

Whoever recently fixed the speed problems on the unified transform
previews, omgTHANKYOU!

:D

Thanks everyone for the hard work improving GIMP.
-C
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Re: [Gimp-developer] fix gimp

[C R]

I mean, I've definitely lost work because I forgot to hit Ctrl+S
occasionally... but 3 hours? That's not something I'd personally  blame on
developers... nor admit to an entire mailing list. :)

Just a thought.
-C




On 27 Dec 2017 9:42 pm, "Name Brand"  wrote:

> yeah I just lost 3 hours of solid work because your program couldn't handle
> me pushing the close button when I had preferences open, instead of the
> "okay button" and frankly I'm extremely pissed about it. Also integrate
> autosave you cavemen.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Using Gimp 2.8

[C R]

Can you post one of your raw files somewhere? It will make it easier to
advise a solution. :)

-C

On 13 Dec 2017 00:34, "Deb Kennedy via gimp-developer-list" <
gimp-developer-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> I am new to programand I am puzzled by the conversion I had to do in order
> to open the files I hadbuploaded.   I shot photos on the RAW setting on my
> camera. N70 Nikon. I wanted ti ability to make corrections so that is why I
> opted for that setting. I noticed they uploaded as NEF files but they were
> not readily available for viewing so  I then converted to JPEG using GIMP
> 2.8.  Now my inquiry is this. Why are the files all grainy /noisy? They
> appear as basically thumb print and when i tried changing the resolution in
> the GIMP 2.8 the photos still had very noticeable noise. Very pixelated.
> Annoyed i kept persistent to my task. To no avail. I need to upload said
> photos to a website Shutterfly for a book I  am putting together for a dear
> friend. Is there anything I can do with GIMP 2.8 that would allow for
> better results? Shutterfly gives me an error code that the NEF files are
> not acceptable and I have tried diligently to fix my dilemma. Can you
> kindly advise me? Perhaps there is away to go around this and end up with
> actual good quality resolution so that the book can be made? Unfortunately
> re-shooting is not an option. I live a state away from where I was taking
> photos.
> Any advice would be greatly helpful. Kindest Regards Dphotogirl
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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Re: [Gimp-developer] [FYI] Filter layer implementation in gimp-2.8+

[C R]

Krita currently has an implementation of this in addition to just
filters attached to specific layers.
Maybe it's worth looking over their shoulders for ideas, as they seem
to have handled it quite well.

Thanks for your work on GIMP!
-C

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 6:09 PM, sigetch  wrote:
> Thanks for your feedback!
>
> 2017年8月8日(火) 0:31 Alexandre Prokoudine :
>
>> As is usual with your fork, it's impressive work. I definitely like
>> some of the implementation specifics, although I can see that certain
>> things could be improved (I can elaborate on that, if you wish).
>>
>
> Thanks. Basically, purpose of my fork is to see what is good external
> specs, and where to implement functions to work functions correctly. If you
> like part of the specs, I'm happy to hear that.
>
>
>> Unfortunately, this cannot be backported to mainstream GIMP 'as is'.
>> Off top of my head:
>>
>> - It's based on GIMP 2.8 that uses obsolete tech.
>> - Your implementation doesn't use the "new" GimpFilterStack class
>> (available in git master since 2013) for stacking filters on a layer.
>> - XCF version in upstream's git master is already 10 now, while you
>> use v4, so that would make mainstream GIMP and your fork (even more?)
>> incompatible.
>
> ==snipped==
>
>> On yet another hand, I don't know how this will
>> play with proposed release order where non-destructive editing is
>> scheduled for 3.2.
>>
>
> As for road-map, it depends on the project's development policy.
> Personally, I think "non-destructive" and "filter layer" is not the same
> thing, because painting tool, transform tool, or other functions also have
> to be "non-destructive" at gimp 3.2. "Filter layer" is the sub-step toward
> the whole "non-destructive" concept.
> In another aspect, some of the graphics editor have "filter-layer" and
> "filter-mask." Both have pros and cons. I think several approaches can
> coexist for "non-destructive" editing concept.
>
> And as you mentioned, I also know there's no straight path to merge my work
> to upstream for now. (I used C++, that might be a big problem :) )
>
> My proposal is to start with discussion of the external specs for filter
> specs, and to launch low-priority "filter-layer" development sub-project.
>
> In my thoughts, following should be discussed to get things move forward.
>
> - Filter should be layer ? or attributes of the layer? I chose filter as
> layer design. GimpFilterStack seems to choose latter one.
>
> -  What kind of filter functions should be applied. In my work, PDB or
> plug-in function is applied. Alternative candidates is to use Gegl
> operations for filter.
>
> - How the filter should work with undo buffer? Currently in my branch, part
> of the undo operation is simply ignored.
>
> - How to deal with brush tool? Simple gegl operation chain may be annoying
> when brush tool updates underlying layer continuously.
>
> - What kind of GUI should be provided for filter configuration? PDB
> functions have good configuration dialog, but it is hard to use that kind
> of dialog from outside of PDB process.
>
> If you all like filter layer, I'd like to continue discussion.
>
> Regards,
> --
> seagetch
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Re: [Gimp-developer] New metadata editor

[C R]

Thanks a lot Ben!
-C

On 25 Jun 2017 15:21, "Ben" <draekko.softw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Just an update to say i've uploaded a new patch that fixes saving so now
> the editor should work fine.
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 06/21/2017 09:03 AM, C R wrote:
>
>> Excellent work! I look forward to giving a thorough testing after the
>> Inkscape hackfest is done.
>>
>> Thanks for doing this. It's going to be great not having to use other
>> software packages just to handle metadata.
>> I'm sure other graphic artists will agree, and I look forward to
>> shouting about it post-hackfest. :)
>> -C
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] request

[C R]

Was going to recommend this myself. I agree with Alex's suggestion:

Personally, I'd rather see a combobox in JPEG exporting options to select
background color, with these options: Black, White, Current Background
Color, Cyrrent Foreground Color.

Alex


If we do this, there is no need for a warning.


-C



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Re: [Gimp-developer] New metadata editor

[C R]

Excellent work! I look forward to giving a thorough testing after the
Inkscape hackfest is done.

Thanks for doing this. It's going to be great not having to use other
software packages just to handle metadata.
I'm sure other graphic artists will agree, and I look forward to
shouting about it post-hackfest. :)
-C


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Ben <draekko.softw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi C R,
>
> Updated the patch per Mitch's requirements, and fixed some issues with the
> importer/exporter portion of the code. That part probably needs more stress
> testing than i managed to give it (lol). I forgot to mention previously that
> the new editor also lets you save/load template files with your metadata
> depending on the various needs you may have. These are plain text xml files.
> See https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=769820 for the latest patch
> and there are screenshots posted as well to give you an idea of whats there.
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 06/18/2017 07:26 AM, C R wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Ben! This will be really useful!
>> -C
>>
>> On 17 Jun 2017 16:00, "Ben" <draekko.softw...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:draekko.softw...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I've updated the patches for a new metadata editor plugin. It adds
>> support for the fields supported by Photoshop/Bridge/Lightroom,
>> and GPS location data as well as keeping support for the original
>> GIMP IPTC fields. Now the same metadata can be handle between GIMP
>> and Adobe products.
>>
>> Unrelated to the editor are some issues with GIMP when saving some
>> XMP tags that need looking at.
>>
>> Enjoy.
>>
>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=769820
>> <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=769820>
>>
>> Ben
>>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Request information

[C R]

Hi Francesco - no need to be sorry. :)
Regarding your question, GIMP should be able to import and export EPS,
so it was not a concious decision to stop supporting the format or
anything. In fact in 2.9x development versions it's still there, still
working (both import and export).

To export the current project to EPS, follow these steps:

1. Go to the "File" menu and choose "Export As"
2. Then you can just type your file name like "yourfilename.eps" and
click the "Export" button
3. When you type .eps at the end of the file name, GIMP will
automatically pop up an export dialog for eps where you can choose the
options you want.

If these steps do not work for you, please advise where you are
getting stuck, and we will try to help you further.

Thanks for your compliments and for using GIMP!
-C







On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Francesco  wrote:
> Dear developers,
> I'm sorry, my name is Francesco, and I would first like to congratulate you 
> on the tremendous work that you are pursuing to develop GIMP.
> Thanks to you thousands of people can use a high-level graphics program, for 
> free. Thank you for that.
> I contact you to give you information, which I do not know if you are already 
> aware:
> In practice, this is the last version of GIMP (2.8.22) and I noticed that it 
> is not possible to import or export EPS files.
> I tried to apply the procedure listed on the official site's document page to 
> fix the problem (https://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-using-external-programs.html), 
> but I could not solve the problem problem.
> Since in the latest version of GIMP (2.8.22) I have noticed that it is quite 
> possible to import and export the EPS file, I would like to know that this is 
> a bug or a choice to permanently delete this file.
> Thank you in advance for any reply you want to give me, thank you again for 
> all your extraordinary work, and I take the opportunity to wish you a 
> wonderful day.
> So many gentle greetings
> Francis
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Please migrate to GitHub/CMake

[C R]

I find conversation typically more friendly on IRC. Also, it's really
awesome to be able to chat with project devs and others in the
community in near real-time capacity. It's also easier to joke and
share stuff without the need to spam the whole mailing list (not that
anyone is doing that). My understanding typically increases ten fold
every time I go ask questions. It's much easier to get opinions, and
discuss things. You'd really never hope to be able to replace all the
IRC conversations with mailing list stuff. It's a different dynamic
entirely.

That's just a personal experience. :)
-C



On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 8:20 PM, wwp  wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> On Sun, 7 May 2017 16:33:49 +0300 Shlomi Fish  wrote:
>
>> Dear Alexandre,
>>
> [snip]
>> As a side note regarding IRC - old does not necessarily imply it is bad (see
>> http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=two-kinds-of-fools ) 
>> and
>> one can normally find some unified clients to communicate on more than one
>> service.
>
> Agreed on that. The whole Claws Mail team is on IRC daily,
> communicating about dev topics as well as personal ones, we're a team,
> most of us are friends. It's sync and async ways of communicating, and
> we have a channel archive. It's fast and lightweight, public and
> private, can be done from a phone even, what would we want more or
> different? Another thing to re-invent? ;-). IRC is probably (w/ email)
> one of the oldest communication ways I se and still happy w/ it, it
> does the work.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>> Sun, 7 May 2017 16:08:24 +0300 Alexandre Prokoudine
>>  wrote:
>>
>> > On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 3:54 PM, gregory grey wrote:
>> >
>> > >>> Now, a person says "I'd like to suggest" and your reply is basically
>> > >>> "f*** off".
>> > >>
>> > >> It's an interesting way to interpret a simple 'no'.
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > Turning tables much? You should interpret the number of developers on
>> > > the projects into reasons of it being so.
>> >
>> > Irrelevant.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP license from the GIMP team ?

[C R]

Why just gimp? Why not include Inkscape, & Scribus, etc. and call it Remote
Design Studio (RDS) for short?

Just a thought.
-C

On 4 Apr 2017 7:48 a.m., "Simon Budig"  wrote:

> Hi Miguel.
>
> Entertainment Mobile wrote:
> > My understanding is that GIMP trademark and logo is free to use
> > according to GPL. However Google Team says that I must have the GIMP
> > team permission in order to use the word "GIMP" in the app name. Do
> > you know how we could obtain the GIMP team permissions to include the
> > word GIMP in the app name taking into account that our app provides
> > access to a GIMP desktop app ?
>
> Well, asking the GIMP team here is a good start.  :)
>
> Personally I consider it a bit misleading to include the name "GIMP"
> into a remote desktop app that happens to be used to connect to a remote
> gimp.
>
> The User Experience for this kind of application will always be tricky,
> since GIMP is designed for the desktop and is not really adjusted to the
> Android UI.
>
> I would prefer to reserve the name "GIMP" for an app that uses gimp's
> technology with a suitable UI layer. While we currently don't have any
> plans to do this it might happen in the future.
>
> I appreciate your efforts and your enthusiasm for gimp, but please try
> to find a different name for your application.
>
> Thank you,
> Simon
> --
>   si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Transformation obeying layer blending?

[C R]

Hi. :) I do not require credit for the donation, but if you want to
include it, you can just add CRogers, which is my /nick on nickserv.
Thanks for your help, and if you want any help with your animation or
presentation for LGM, let me know.
I did the one for Inkscape at last year's LGM, at the hackfest prior
to the event, and folks seemed to like it. :)
It was really last-minute though, so obviously the more lead time we
have, the better if can be.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/67wva0mryutll7d/inkscape_lgm_video_2016_finished.ogv?dl=0

You can email me directly if you would like to discuss the
animations/presentations, or I can meet you on #gimp and we can chat
there at your preference.
Really appreciate all the work you're doing on GIMP! It's well worth the funds.

At your service,
-C



On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Øyvind Kolås <pip...@gimp.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:53 AM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I will do a complete write up and video with my suggestions.
>> Thanks for your help, pippin! :)
>>
>> PS - I joined your Patreon last month. Are you getting the funds okay?
>> I've never signed up to one of these, so I wanted to make sure it's
>> working correctly.
>
> Thanks a lot for your support on Patreon - the funds accumulate
> correctly. It has motivated me to (over)spend time and energy on
> babl/GEGL/GIMP in the last couple of months; surviving financially
> works nicely as a carrot on top of the stubbornness that has fueled my
> past contributions. For LGM I plan to have a video/some motion
> graphics listing appreciation for donors, as well as a release of
> tidied up sources for the GEGL based tool used for last years lgm goat
> video, do you have a preferred rendition of your name for that
> purpose?
>
> /pippin - babl/GEGL lead develoer and maintainer - https://patreon.com/pippin
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Transformation obeying layer blending?

[C R]

I will do a complete write up and video with my suggestions.
Thanks for your help, pippin! :)

PS - I joined your Patreon last month. Are you getting the funds okay?
I've never signed up to one of these, so I wanted to make sure it's
working correctly.

-C

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Øyvind Kolås <pip...@gimp.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:14 AM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for the update. Is it possible it implement my temporary fix in
>> the meanwhile?
>> Not saying it should be a blocker, but it would help tremendously in
>> the interim.
>
> Integrating your comments/suggestions with bug #315051 would help
> track also your thinking on a possible interim solution - thus
> increasing the chance of it being fixed by GIMP UI contributors
> looking for unresolved issues.
>
> /pippin - GEGL maintainer - https://patreon.com/pippin
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Transformation obeying layer blending?

[C R]

Thanks Tobiasz, :) it's just my own experience as a long time Gimp user. If
anyone would like a proper use case write up on it, I can provide that as
well if it helps.

Thanks to everyone for all the work and help!
-C

On 5 Mar 2017 11:17 a.m., "Tobiasz Karoń" <unf...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What you proposed sounds very sensible to me. It would help a lot of
> situations, and I don't see any which it would harm.
>
> 4 mar 2017 6:51 PM "C R" <caj...@gmail.com> napisał(a):
>
>> The bad news is that opaque is still the default, so you have to take
>> time to adjust the opacity mode each and every time you restart GIMP.
>>
>> Thus, if you want to transform the layer in relation to what's under
>> it, you have to follow these steps:
>>
>> 1.Start the transform (scale, rotate, unified transform, etc.)
>> 2.Hide the current layer.
>> 3.Adjust the opacity of the transformation preview in the transform
>> tool options.
>> 4.Set grid to zero lines
>> 5.complete transformation
>> 6.Un-hide layer to see the results.
>>
>> Additionally, you have to do this for each tool you want to use for
>> transforming at least once per gimp session.
>>
>> This is a lot of work, when all you want to do is see what's under
>> your transformation while transforming.
>>
>> The steps could be reduced dramatically by changing some of gimps
>> defaults:
>>
>> 1.Start the transformation (GIMP automatically sets transforming layer
>> display to hidden. This is necessary to see the result of your
>> transformation in can see relation to what's below it. GIMP could also
>> set the transform visibility to 75% opacity by default, giving an even
>> better view of what the transformation is covering up. GIMP should
>> hide grid lines by default during transformation unless the user asks
>> for them. They have only ever really gotten in the way, and I have yet
>> to find any good use for them.)
>> 2.Complete the transformation (GIMP unhides the layer, thus showing
>> the transformation in its complete state at full opacity)
>>
>> So as you can see, this would cut down the work the user has to do a
>> lot when transforming. It would also bring GIMP's transforming into
>> the same ease of use as every other graphics program I've ever used
>> professionally. :) After having lived with it like this every working
>> day for the last 6 years, I have to say, it's still one of my biggest
>> gripes about GIMP's GUI. Can we fix it? Please? Pretty pretty please?
>> :)
>>
>> -C
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Peter O'Regan <peterore...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I see what you describe in 2.8 and I agree it would be useful. And
>> > fortunately, the development 2.9 build contains an opacity control in
>> the
>> > transformation tools to do just that! =)
>> >
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Tobiasz Karoń <unf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi!
>> >>
>> >> When doing transformations (scale, rotation, perspective transform) the
>> >> transformed layer "pops out" and transformed part of the image is fully
>> >> opaque and drawn on top of everything else together with the
>> transfomation
>> >> gizmo/controls/grid.
>> >>
>> >> Sometimes I'd like to be able to make this semi-transparent to be able
>> to
>> >> align one layer to another, laying underneath it.
>> >>
>> >> Sometimes I use the "Difference" blending type to compare two layers
>> and
>> >> align stuff precisely. For translation I can use the arrow keys and the
>> >> blending works, but for perspective transform, scaling or rotation - I
>> >> can't use my layer's blending while manipulating the transfomation, and
>> >> that'd be super useful at times.
>> >>
>> >> What do you think?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń
>> >>
>> >> http://soundcloud.com/unfa
>> >> ___
>> >> gimp-developer-list mailing list
>> >> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
>> >> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-
>> >> developer-list
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>> >>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Transformation obeying layer blending?

[C R]

The bad news is that opaque is still the default, so you have to take
time to adjust the opacity mode each and every time you restart GIMP.

Thus, if you want to transform the layer in relation to what's under
it, you have to follow these steps:

1.Start the transform (scale, rotate, unified transform, etc.)
2.Hide the current layer.
3.Adjust the opacity of the transformation preview in the transform
tool options.
4.Set grid to zero lines
5.complete transformation
6.Un-hide layer to see the results.

Additionally, you have to do this for each tool you want to use for
transforming at least once per gimp session.

This is a lot of work, when all you want to do is see what's under
your transformation while transforming.

The steps could be reduced dramatically by changing some of gimps defaults:

1.Start the transformation (GIMP automatically sets transforming layer
display to hidden. This is necessary to see the result of your
transformation in can see relation to what's below it. GIMP could also
set the transform visibility to 75% opacity by default, giving an even
better view of what the transformation is covering up. GIMP should
hide grid lines by default during transformation unless the user asks
for them. They have only ever really gotten in the way, and I have yet
to find any good use for them.)
2.Complete the transformation (GIMP unhides the layer, thus showing
the transformation in its complete state at full opacity)

So as you can see, this would cut down the work the user has to do a
lot when transforming. It would also bring GIMP's transforming into
the same ease of use as every other graphics program I've ever used
professionally. :) After having lived with it like this every working
day for the last 6 years, I have to say, it's still one of my biggest
gripes about GIMP's GUI. Can we fix it? Please? Pretty pretty please?
:)

-C



On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Peter O'Regan  wrote:
> I see what you describe in 2.8 and I agree it would be useful. And
> fortunately, the development 2.9 build contains an opacity control in the
> transformation tools to do just that! =)
>
> Peter
>
> On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Tobiasz Karoń  wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> When doing transformations (scale, rotation, perspective transform) the
>> transformed layer "pops out" and transformed part of the image is fully
>> opaque and drawn on top of everything else together with the transfomation
>> gizmo/controls/grid.
>>
>> Sometimes I'd like to be able to make this semi-transparent to be able to
>> align one layer to another, laying underneath it.
>>
>> Sometimes I use the "Difference" blending type to compare two layers and
>> align stuff precisely. For translation I can use the arrow keys and the
>> blending works, but for perspective transform, scaling or rotation - I
>> can't use my layer's blending while manipulating the transfomation, and
>> that'd be super useful at times.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> --
>> - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń
>>
>> http://soundcloud.com/unfa
>> ___
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>> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
>> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-
>> developer-list
>> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>>
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[Gimp-developer] Another thank you from a new fan

[C R]

Hey folks. Welcome back from Wilber Week. I had some nice comments
from a student of mine who has taken up GIMP after I taught her how to
get started using it for her artwork. She will be making commercial
products with it, as I do, and I asked her to write up a quick summary
of what she said to me in person.

So here it is, another thankyou letter from artists inspired by the
work you all put into GIMP, and of course, my thanks as usual. :)

Quote: from Anna Tong, illustrator, who works with watercolours -
-
So the first thing I love about Gimp (an obvious one I guess!) is that
it's free. I just find it so enabling and it has really allowed me to
make headway with my designs. I can't get over the fact that it is
free. Just fantastic.

I also like how it does follow quite a few similar tools on other
platforms, like the clone tool etc. which I recall from Photoshop, as
well as layering, and the colour sampling tool etc. I love how you can
open several files at once and switch back and forth (I can't recall
doing that on Photoshop but maybe I didn't know how).

At the moment I'm using it as a bit of a cross between Illustrator and
Photoshop. I take photos of my paintings and cut them out on Gimp and
rearrange them and then tweak them and draw bits here and there. It's
allowed me to play with colours and arrangements.

Hope this is enough, let me know if you need more! Please thank them
on my behalf!
-

Regards and thanks for all you do.
-C
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Wilber design version by Aryeom, during Wilber Week 2017

[C R]

Thanks for sharing! :)
I like the idea of reducing Wilber to some basic shapes.
Here are two more options for consideration:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/83ar1veirxmxba9/AADOngL7UG97CAbp2zqQLt_qa?dl=0

I think Wilber with no eyes looks more professional. However losing
the eyes does change the feeling of the logo. I also kinda like the
human/personal/friendly touch of the cartoon eyes. It really depends
on what image the project wants. :)

Thoughts?

-C



On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Jehan Pagès  wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Aryeom asked me to send the design idea that was made during Wilber
> Week. Can be used for instance on official T-shirts and alike.
> https://cloud.libreart.info/index.php/s/3UadzBVFFilVNkF
> Most devs present here with us already saw it, now here are the files!
>
> Jehan
>
> --
> ZeMarmot open animation film
> http://film.zemarmot.net
> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Wilber Logo

[C R]

Also, if you mean the docs folder in a gimp install, that svg actually
HAS been there (unchanged) forever. :)
I think round-about no one would find this version satisfying anymore...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1vq9lzsbjpogct3/ancient_wilber.png?dl=0

The construction kit has a slightly more modern version, but it's
still a far cry from the one on the splash in gimp 2.8.
Would someone like me to patch this kit with the new stuff?

There are closer svgs in the icons folders, however the only actual
graphic of the latest official gimp logo is a png. This is the png I
used the make my svg version a few years back.

Let me know if it would be useful to update these as well.

-C



On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:52 AM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> If you look in the source (docs) you will find the wilber construction kit
>> as well as an svg. Been there forever
>
> Think that falls under that "lost in the a git archive somewhere" thing I
> said earlier...
> What I'm saying is if the project wants it to be available to users, it
> should be on the website as well where normal users can find it along with
> information on how to use it (maybe a link to Inkscape would be useful as
> well).
>
> -C
>
>
>>
>>
>> Owen
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Wilber Logo

[C R]

> If you look in the source (docs) you will find the wilber construction
kit as well as an svg. Been there forever

Think that falls under that "lost in the a git archive somewhere" thing I
said earlier...
What I'm saying is if the project wants it to be available to users, it
should be on the website as well where normal users can find it along with
information on how to use it (maybe a link to Inkscape would be useful as
well).

-C



>
> Owen
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Wilber Logo

[C R]

Grrr, Wilbur -> Wilber! ;)

On 29 Jan 2017 6:48 p.m., "C R" <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I did an "Internet search" before making it, as none available at the time
> were based off the 2.8 splash screen version. This is why I made one, and
> then shared it with GIMP devs and the community. It's still one of the best
> ones available, and it's one I can vouch for being cc0 as I made it
> personally. GIMP's own page about the Wilber graphic warns against using
> other versions from outside sources as they may be (c) the artists. I made
> this version to be free with no attribution required so people could modify
> and use it freely. There may be other versions out there, but this is a
> high quality one can be considered safe to use for the project and it's
> more up to date than versions in the gimp website (with permission needed
> from GIMP devs for the commercial part, of course). I suggest the GIMP
> project use it on the official Wilbur page so more people have access to it
> as a resource.
>
> -C
>
> On 29 Jan 2017 6:21 p.m., "Kevin Cozens" <ke...@ve3syb.ca> wrote:
>
> On 2017-01-28 04:14 PM, C R wrote:
>
>> It seems to be missing from the official GIMP Wilber downloads page,
>> but a few years ago I made Wilbur in Inkscape, and gave it to the
>> project.
>> It's probably lost in a git archive somewhere. :)
>>
>
> If you do an Internet search there are plenty of instances of Wilber with
> the paint brush in his mouth that are in SVG format.
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Kevin.
>
> http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that
> distract
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
> | powerful!"
> #include  | --Chris Hardwick
>
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>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Wilber Logo

[C R]

I did an "Internet search" before making it, as none available at the time
were based off the 2.8 splash screen version. This is why I made one, and
then shared it with GIMP devs and the community. It's still one of the best
ones available, and it's one I can vouch for being cc0 as I made it
personally. GIMP's own page about the Wilber graphic warns against using
other versions from outside sources as they may be (c) the artists. I made
this version to be free with no attribution required so people could modify
and use it freely. There may be other versions out there, but this is a
high quality one can be considered safe to use for the project and it's
more up to date than versions in the gimp website (with permission needed
from GIMP devs for the commercial part, of course). I suggest the GIMP
project use it on the official Wilbur page so more people have access to it
as a resource.

-C

On 29 Jan 2017 6:21 p.m., "Kevin Cozens" <ke...@ve3syb.ca> wrote:

On 2017-01-28 04:14 PM, C R wrote:

> It seems to be missing from the official GIMP Wilber downloads page,
> but a few years ago I made Wilbur in Inkscape, and gave it to the
> project.
> It's probably lost in a git archive somewhere. :)
>

If you do an Internet search there are plenty of instances of Wilber with
the paint brush in his mouth that are in SVG format.

-- 
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include  | --Chris Hardwick

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Wilber Logo

[C R]

Yes I spelt it wrong a few times. It's me though. Is anyone shocked at this
point? ;)

On 28 Jan 2017 10:40 p.m., "Tobias Ellinghaus" <h...@gmx.de> wrote:

> Am Samstag, 28. Januar 2017, 21:14:56 CET schrieb C R:
> > Wilbur
>
> Wilber ;-)
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Wilber Logo

[C R]

Like I said, I'm not a lawyer. I don't own any rights to the GIMP logo. I
would not be the one to ask. I'd recommend making the graphic and then
asking for permission so the devs can see it. Note that they are away this
week at a hackfest and may be slow to respond.

Hope it helps. :)

-C

On 28 Jan 2017 9:50 p.m., "Riley Tallman" <rptall...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for your permission to use that logo you made!
>
> So just to be crystal clear, I do not need any special legal documentation
> approving me to modify and commercialize the GIMP logo Wilbur? Other than
> this email I suppose?
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:14 PM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It seems to be missing from the official GIMP Wilber downloads page,
>> but a few years ago I made Wilbur in Inkscape, and gave it to the
>> project.
>> It's probably lost in a git archive somewhere. :)
>>
>> I've included a temporary link to it if the project wants to put it up
>> for folks to use (no attribution is necessary). Included is an archive
>> with the vector (editable in Inkscape) as well as a high-res png
>> export. It's cc0, as are all the graphics I make for the projects. :)
>> Use and mod as you like:
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek1vzv1kkgdoybh/gimp_2.8_logo.zip?dl=1
>>
>> That said, I am not a lawyer, nor do I own claim ownership rights to
>> the original Wilber logo, and with cc0 I waive my rights to this work
>> as well. :)
>> For my part, I'm happy knowing more people will be wearing GIMP tees
>> and spreading awareness of the project.
>>
>> Riley - You might think about donating a portion of your profits to
>> the GIMP project - It's actually a pretty big selling point for a lot
>> of GIMP users, knowing a portion will go to supporting the project.
>> Also, you might get your company name on this really bad page:
>> https://www.gimp.org/about/merchandise.html
>>
>> I know right? Almost too good to be true! :D
>> -C
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Riley Tallman <rptall...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I would like to design t-shirts with the Wilber logo and commercially
>> sell
>> > those shirts online. I have not made the designs yet because I wanted to
>> > make sure that I have the right permission and legal ability to do so.
>> >
>> > The design will have nothing other than a modified version of the Wilber
>> > logo, and perhaps the text "GIMP".
>> >
>> > Let me know how to proceed,
>> > Thank you in advance!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Considerately,
>> > Riley Tallman
>> > ___
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>> > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
>> > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman
>> /listinfo/gimp-developer-list
>> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Considerately,
> Riley Tallman
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Wilber Logo

[C R]

It seems to be missing from the official GIMP Wilber downloads page,
but a few years ago I made Wilbur in Inkscape, and gave it to the
project.
It's probably lost in a git archive somewhere. :)

I've included a temporary link to it if the project wants to put it up
for folks to use (no attribution is necessary). Included is an archive
with the vector (editable in Inkscape) as well as a high-res png
export. It's cc0, as are all the graphics I make for the projects. :)
Use and mod as you like:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek1vzv1kkgdoybh/gimp_2.8_logo.zip?dl=1

That said, I am not a lawyer, nor do I own claim ownership rights to
the original Wilber logo, and with cc0 I waive my rights to this work
as well. :)
For my part, I'm happy knowing more people will be wearing GIMP tees
and spreading awareness of the project.

Riley - You might think about donating a portion of your profits to
the GIMP project - It's actually a pretty big selling point for a lot
of GIMP users, knowing a portion will go to supporting the project.
Also, you might get your company name on this really bad page:
https://www.gimp.org/about/merchandise.html

I know right? Almost too good to be true! :D
-C


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Riley Tallman  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to design t-shirts with the Wilber logo and commercially sell
> those shirts online. I have not made the designs yet because I wanted to
> make sure that I have the right permission and legal ability to do so.
>
> The design will have nothing other than a modified version of the Wilber
> logo, and perhaps the text "GIMP".
>
> Let me know how to proceed,
> Thank you in advance!
>
> --
> Considerately,
> Riley Tallman
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Wilber Logo

[C R]

Can you describe how you intend to modify it?
Also, it would be a good idea to make sure the version you want to
modify is an official one, and not one someone else made, because
those can be copyright, just as yours might be if you made a variation
of it.

See here (describes linking, downloading, and modification):
https://www.gimp.org/about/linking.html



On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Riley Tallman  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to design t-shirts with the Wilber logo and commercially sell
> those shirts online. I have not made the designs yet because I wanted to
> make sure that I have the right permission and legal ability to do so.
>
> The design will have nothing other than a modified version of the Wilber
> logo, and perhaps the text "GIMP".
>
> Let me know how to proceed,
> Thank you in advance!
>
> --
> Considerately,
> Riley Tallman
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP - the parasites are back

[C R]

Fixing the problem is okay with me. I realise I'm an unusual user
using trunk for production work. My boss would almost certainly
misunderstand that warning, so I'm hoping I can continue to distract
him from them while the problem is being fixed.

Does it need a new bug report?

Thanks.
-C

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Bill Skaggs <weska...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's not a user warning, it's a bug report intended for programmers, and
> the proper solution is to fix the bug.  It would probably be better if the
> term "attachment" had been used from the start rather than "parasite", but
> changing that now would be quite an involved process.
>
> Bill
>
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 3:22 AM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> This message keeps popping up every time I open an image from dropbox
>> :
>> Execution error for procedure 'gimp-image-attach-parasite':
>> 'gimp-comment' parasite validation failed: comment contains invalid UTF-8
>>
>> I would at least suppress this warning by default if there's no good
>> way of fixing the error.
>>
>> As a user, my first question would be:
>> "Why is gimp trying to attach a parasite to my image?"
>>
>> Me second thought would be "What is a parasite?" Sounds like
>> malware/tracking cookie type language.
>>
>> I recommend at least changing the verbiage of this warning. It's
>> embarrassing at best, and at worst, might lead people to assume their
>> copy of GIMP has malware.
>>
>> -C
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[Gimp-developer] GIMP - the parasites are back

[C R]

This message keeps popping up every time I open an image from dropbox
:
Execution error for procedure 'gimp-image-attach-parasite':
'gimp-comment' parasite validation failed: comment contains invalid UTF-8

I would at least suppress this warning by default if there's no good
way of fixing the error.

As a user, my first question would be:
"Why is gimp trying to attach a parasite to my image?"

Me second thought would be "What is a parasite?" Sounds like
malware/tracking cookie type language.

I recommend at least changing the verbiage of this warning. It's
embarrassing at best, and at worst, might lead people to assume their
copy of GIMP has malware.

-C
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Plans to resolve hotkey conflicts?

[C R]

It's been like that for ages. I'll go ahead and file a bug report, if no
one wants to fix it, or can't quickly.

Thanks.
-C

On 18 Dec 2016 6:12 pm, "Simon Budig" <si...@budig.de> wrote:

> C R (caj...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > > Uh. In what way isn't that the case currently?
> >
> > Try Alt-C, s for hue/saturation
> > Then try it again after you complete the hue saturation action
> > On the second run alt-C, s skips to Colourise
>
> Oh, indeed. That feels stupid.
>
> Bye,
> Simon
>
> --
>   si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Plans to resolve hotkey conflicts?

[C R]

> Uh. In what way isn't that the case currently?

Try Alt-C, s for hue/saturation
Then try it again after you complete the hue saturation action
On the second run alt-C, s skips to Colourise

Thanks.
-C


>
> GTK+ cycles through all the "conflicting" mnemonics. So (for british
> english) ALT-C, s, s  consistently brings you to "Colouri_se".



>
> I usually don't use the mnemonic-based menu navigation, so I might be
> missing something...
>
> Bye,
> Simon
> --
>   si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Legal?

[C R]

Neither of these appear to be violating the GPL. Unless there's proof
otherwise, the very worst that happens is more people get to be aware
of and use GIMP.

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine
 wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 10:03 AM, JOSEPH GRIFFITHS II wrote:
>> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/gimp-on-rollapp/eodhmnkhmnkmimhckfpkgmbmcgjkaddo?hl=en-US
>> rollapp is making money off of gimp and practically selling it in the
>> google web store!
>
> Good for them too.
>
> Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Amazon 3rd party selling copies of GIMP

[C R]

The GPL allows selling of GIMP provided the source code is also offered.
This particular listing also packages value added clip art, etc.

It should be determined beforehand that the GPL has been violated in order
to report a listing.

More info here: https://www.gimp.org/about/selling.html

-C

On 18 Dec 2016 12:29 pm, "David Heise"  wrote:

> https://www.amazon.com/Markt-Technik/b/ref=bl_dp_s_web_15352
> 299011?ie=UTF8=15352299011_brands_browse-bin=
> Markt%2BTechnik
>
> Amazon makes it hard to report problems with 3rd party sellers, but I
> wanted to make the people who work on GIMP and other free open source
> programs aware of these people if they want to do something about it.
> Maybe someone else will have better luck in figuring out how to report them
> to Amazon.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Plans to resolve hotkey conflicts?

[C R]

I will, I was just hoping it might be a quick fix.
Thanks.
-C


On 17 Dec 2016 1:27 pm, "Jehan Pagès" <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> wrote:

> By the way,
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 12:30 PM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > however could you fix the ones I've highlighted?
>
> You should open bug reports. I don't have time (or the will) to do
> this just now, and I will have forgotten about this in a few hours
> (and in a few days, this email will be lost in the bottom of my
> mailbox).
> If you want bugs to leave a trace and not be forgotten, you should
> open bug reports. They can then also be dealt by other developers (not
> only me) later on so you improve chances of seeing this being taken
> care of.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jehan
>
> > Thanks.
> > -C
> >
> >
> > On 17 Dec 2016 4:38 am, "Jehan Pagès" <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:10 AM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Thanks Alex.
> >> >
> >> > And I'm still getting overlaping hotkeys with:
> >>
> >> Ok so it seems you are talking of something different from what
> >> Alexandre linked. This commit was about duplicate shortcuts. You are
> >> talking about what GTK+ calls "mnemonics", which is this underlined
> >> character on menu items or buttons. This commit did indeed nothing
> >> related to mnemonics.
> >>
> >> I don't really know what is the deal with mnemonics because that's a
> >> real mess by design. Indeed having duplicated mnemonics is hard to
> >> check since a same action can be used in various contexts (different
> >> menus, dialogs…). In one case, it may be fine, but in others, it
> >> won't.
> >>
> >> I think I read someone saying that maybe GTK+ would be getting away
> >> from mnemonics in the long run but I can't find any actual reference
> >> to this (apart from the fact that it is not possible to see them by
> >> default in GTK+3 apparently, without pressing Alt). So I don't know.
> >>
> >> > s - Hue/Saturation, Colourise
> >>
> >> That's another case which shows the problem with mnemonics: by
> >> default, the label is "Colori_ze" (with a mnemonic on 'z'), but the
> >> translator changed it to 's' (obviously you are using UK English). So
> >> there is no conflicts in US English, but there is one in UK English.
> >> This is too much of a burden on translators to be able to change
> >> mnemonics (so should they be expected to check every place where they
> >> are used, as well as developers?).
> >>
> >> Anyway I don't really have good answers for you. You can try and open
> >> bug reports for the conflicts you find and we'll try to fix them. But
> >> we likely won't be 100% sure that we won't create new mnemonics
> >> conflicts somewhere else by fixing them in this specific menu. And the
> >> ones on translated strings will be even more annoying. Maybe we should
> >> ask translators to not change mnemonics even when the translation does
> >> not have the letter? (they would add a "(z)" at the end of the string.
> >> That's what they do in languages with indirect input like Japanese,
> >> though it could feel like a stepback for a lang such as UK English)
> >>
> >> Jehan
> >>
> >> > e - Desaturate, Color Temperature
> >> > x - Exposure, Retinex
> >> >
> >> > I'm running the gimp-edge repo.
> >> > The current one is:
> >> > gimp 2.9.5~58-0y0~ppa~9f15ad6
> >> >
> >> > It also seems there is a bug that forces the user to press the over
> >> > arrow to access the hotkeys for sub-menus.
> >> > For example, the key combination alt+c > e > d should call up the
> >> > desaturate dialog, but the user must use this combination instead:
> >> > alt+c > e > right arrow > d.
> >> >
> >> > Is this possibly a GTK bug?
> >> > All the styling on the new menus looks great btw.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> > -C
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
> >> > <alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:46 AM, C R wrote:
> >> >>> The Colour menu has again become a mess of conflicting hotkeys.
> >> >>> Can someone reassign/resolve them?
&g

Re: [Gimp-developer] Plans to resolve hotkey conflicts?

[C R]

I mean, I really don't care as long as it's consistent, and it never has
been in the past, for as long as I have used GIMP.

I should be able to hit a sequence of hotkeys to get to sub menu items, and
doing it again should get me to the same function each and every time I
perform them.

Reducing the number of hotkeys necessary to do each action would be nice,
but I'll take consistency over less keys any day because it takes longer to
see and figure out which overlaping mnemonic gtk decided to randomly choose
this time. It may seem like a small thing but it's really crippling to
workflow.

Thanks for your help.
-C


I think this would be the better fix. But then what of this case:
- 'a' is mnemonic for 'submenu 1'
- 'a' is mnemonic for 'item 1' under 'submenu 1'
- 'a' is mnemonic for 'item 2' (same level as submenu 1)

Hitting 'a' highlight 'submenu 1'. Should hitting again 'a' highlight
'item 2' on the same level or enter inside 'submenu 1' and highlight
'item 1'?
Of course, if hitting right arrow is mandatory to go inside the
submenu, that's not a problem, but since you felt it was a problem
earlier, I just wanted to raise the issue.

Second issue is that you usually want to have an item be directly run
(and not just highlighted) when it is a finale item. Otherwise should
we also hit Enter to activate?

> Can this behaviour be fixed?

Everything can be done, but since that's in GTK+:

- GTK+ devs must agree with the change of behavior.
- This cannot be for GIMP 2.10 because GTK+ is stable and don't accept
new features/change of behavior. Also GTK+3 itself just went stable so
that means it probably won't be doable for GIMP 3 even.

Jehan

> Thanks.
> -C
>
>
> On 17 Dec 2016 4:38 am, "Jehan Pagès" <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:10 AM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Thanks Alex.
>> >
>> > And I'm still getting overlaping hotkeys with:
>>
>> Ok so it seems you are talking of something different from what
>> Alexandre linked. This commit was about duplicate shortcuts. You are
>> talking about what GTK+ calls "mnemonics", which is this underlined
>> character on menu items or buttons. This commit did indeed nothing
>> related to mnemonics.
>>
>> I don't really know what is the deal with mnemonics because that's a
>> real mess by design. Indeed having duplicated mnemonics is hard to
>> check since a same action can be used in various contexts (different
>> menus, dialogs…). In one case, it may be fine, but in others, it
>> won't.
>>
>> I think I read someone saying that maybe GTK+ would be getting away
>> from mnemonics in the long run but I can't find any actual reference
>> to this (apart from the fact that it is not possible to see them by
>> default in GTK+3 apparently, without pressing Alt). So I don't know.
>>
>> > s - Hue/Saturation, Colourise
>>
>> That's another case which shows the problem with mnemonics: by
>> default, the label is "Colori_ze" (with a mnemonic on 'z'), but the
>> translator changed it to 's' (obviously you are using UK English). So
>> there is no conflicts in US English, but there is one in UK English.
>> This is too much of a burden on translators to be able to change
>> mnemonics (so should they be expected to check every place where they
>> are used, as well as developers?).
>>
>> Anyway I don't really have good answers for you. You can try and open
>> bug reports for the conflicts you find and we'll try to fix them. But
>> we likely won't be 100% sure that we won't create new mnemonics
>> conflicts somewhere else by fixing them in this specific menu. And the
>> ones on translated strings will be even more annoying. Maybe we should
>> ask translators to not change mnemonics even when the translation does
>> not have the letter? (they would add a "(z)" at the end of the string.
>> That's what they do in languages with indirect input like Japanese,
>> though it could feel like a stepback for a lang such as UK English)
>>
>> Jehan
>>
>> > e - Desaturate, Color Temperature
>> > x - Exposure, Retinex
>> >
>> > I'm running the gimp-edge repo.
>> > The current one is:
>> > gimp 2.9.5~58-0y0~ppa~9f15ad6
>> >
>> > It also seems there is a bug that forces the user to press the over
>> > arrow to access the hotkeys for sub-menus.
>> > For example, the key combination alt+c > e > d should call up the
>> > desaturate dialog, but the user must use this combination instead:
>> > alt+c > e > right arrow > d.
>> >
>> > Is this possibly a GTK bug?
&

Re: [Gimp-developer] Plans to resolve hotkey conflicts?

[C R]

Thanks for the explanation. I don't imagine it's possible to avoid them
all, however could you fix the ones I've highlighted? I guess a workaround
would be to change to the American English version? Seems not a good
solution.

Another fix would be to leave the mnemonics as they are, and just make it
possible to hit the same letter twice to get to the next one. - This works
the first time, but it switches which entry is highlighted each time the
combination is used. If it were simply consistent each time I'd consider it
a non-issue.

Can this behaviour be fixed?

Thanks.
-C


On 17 Dec 2016 4:38 am, "Jehan Pagès" <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:10 AM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks Alex.
> >
> > And I'm still getting overlaping hotkeys with:
>
> Ok so it seems you are talking of something different from what
> Alexandre linked. This commit was about duplicate shortcuts. You are
> talking about what GTK+ calls "mnemonics", which is this underlined
> character on menu items or buttons. This commit did indeed nothing
> related to mnemonics.
>
> I don't really know what is the deal with mnemonics because that's a
> real mess by design. Indeed having duplicated mnemonics is hard to
> check since a same action can be used in various contexts (different
> menus, dialogs…). In one case, it may be fine, but in others, it
> won't.
>
> I think I read someone saying that maybe GTK+ would be getting away
> from mnemonics in the long run but I can't find any actual reference
> to this (apart from the fact that it is not possible to see them by
> default in GTK+3 apparently, without pressing Alt). So I don't know.
>
> > s - Hue/Saturation, Colourise
>
> That's another case which shows the problem with mnemonics: by
> default, the label is "Colori_ze" (with a mnemonic on 'z'), but the
> translator changed it to 's' (obviously you are using UK English). So
> there is no conflicts in US English, but there is one in UK English.
> This is too much of a burden on translators to be able to change
> mnemonics (so should they be expected to check every place where they
> are used, as well as developers?).
>
> Anyway I don't really have good answers for you. You can try and open
> bug reports for the conflicts you find and we'll try to fix them. But
> we likely won't be 100% sure that we won't create new mnemonics
> conflicts somewhere else by fixing them in this specific menu. And the
> ones on translated strings will be even more annoying. Maybe we should
> ask translators to not change mnemonics even when the translation does
> not have the letter? (they would add a "(z)" at the end of the string.
> That's what they do in languages with indirect input like Japanese,
> though it could feel like a stepback for a lang such as UK English)
>
> Jehan
>
> > e - Desaturate, Color Temperature
> > x - Exposure, Retinex
> >
> > I'm running the gimp-edge repo.
> > The current one is:
> > gimp 2.9.5~58-0y0~ppa~9f15ad6
> >
> > It also seems there is a bug that forces the user to press the over
> > arrow to access the hotkeys for sub-menus.
> > For example, the key combination alt+c > e > d should call up the
> > desaturate dialog, but the user must use this combination instead:
> > alt+c > e > right arrow > d.
> >
> > Is this possibly a GTK bug?
> > All the styling on the new menus looks great btw.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > -C
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine
> > <alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:46 AM, C R wrote:
> >>> The Colour menu has again become a mess of conflicting hotkeys.
> >>> Can someone reassign/resolve them?
> >>>
> >>> Probably a good idea to get rid of some of the duplicate functions
> >>> like "drop shadow" and the proliferation of duplicate desaturate
> >>> actions. :)
> >>
> >> Done three weeks ago:
> >>
> >> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/commit/?id=
> 2a232398c4ad5a3108b5ad75be7bc8ef5d98e6fb
> >>
> >> Alex
> >> ___
> >> gimp-developer-list mailing list
> >> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> >> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-
> developer-list
> >> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
> > ___
> > gimp-developer-list mailing list
> > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> 

Re: [Gimp-developer] An idea / feature for future releases of GIMP

[C R]

> Already available since 2.9.2 :)

Oh hells yes! hotkeyed and everything! : hit the forward slash.
Thanks for pointing that out, Alexandre!

One small tweak: can the search pop up under the mouse cursor?
If one is using focus-follows-mouse in their wm (like I do), it's a
mad rush to mouse over the search box before it vanishes.

Maybe it could pop-up attached to the status bar so window-focusing is
not an issue?

Regardless, this is so cool. My girlfriend is going to love that
feature. Maybe as much as I do!
Thanks again everyone!

-C

>
> 16 дек. 2016 г. 1:19 пользователь "M. Hammoud" 
> написал:
>
>> Hi.
>> New users spend a lot of time looking for an effect / filter / brush / tool
>> / pattern in the multiple menu tabs, each with a long list of submenus,
>> each with a lot of sub-sub-items.
>> It would be great, if one could simply type in a box what they are looking
>> for, such as for example "Gaussian Blur" and gimp would look for this or
>> suggest closest potential results.
>>
>> Regards,
>> *M. M. HAMMOUD, **MSc, MCITP, PMP, PSM, Prince2, SSBB, CPD*
>>
>> *https://linkedin.com/in/marchammoud/
>> *
>> ___
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>> developer-list
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>>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] An idea / feature for future releases of GIMP

[C R]

+1
This is one of my favourite features of the Blender 3D UI.


On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 5:14 PM, M. Hammoud  wrote:
> Hi.
> New users spend a lot of time looking for an effect / filter / brush / tool
> / pattern in the multiple menu tabs, each with a long list of submenus,
> each with a lot of sub-sub-items.
> It would be great, if one could simply type in a box what they are looking
> for, such as for example "Gaussian Blur" and gimp would look for this or
> suggest closest potential results.
>
> Regards,
> *M. M. HAMMOUD, **MSc, MCITP, PMP, PSM, Prince2, SSBB, CPD*
>
> *https://linkedin.com/in/marchammoud/
> *
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[Gimp-developer] Plans to resolve hotkey conflicts?

[C R]

The Colour menu has again become a mess of conflicting hotkeys.
Can someone reassign/resolve them?

Probably a good idea to get rid of some of the duplicate functions
like "drop shadow" and the proliferation of duplicate desaturate
actions. :)

If help is needed picking the best versions to keep, let me know. I'm
happy to help in any way that I can. I assume the non-gegl based
actions are going away soonish?

Thanks!

-C
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[Gimp-developer] A little smile from more GIMP users

[C R]

One of my recent contacts emailed me today with this thankyou note.
Really, it's a thankyou to the devs and community of GIMP, so I thought I'd
share (with permission, of course):

"Thank you for sending me to Blender 3D.
I like it. I am learning to use it.
Please know that I have slowly got our entire office to drop our paid image
editors in favor of GIMP. (~20 users)
Thank you so much for continuing to support it."

-Redmond Silver

Gave me warm fuzzies.
-C
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

Hi Shlomi! Thanks for weighing in, and for sharing your motivations.
Also thanks for your past contributions and I too hope you can once again
find time to contribute to GIMP in the future.
I found your articles quite informative, and I like your comment about the
Tinfoil hat (What Linus said about SHA1 security was quite amusing).
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=linus-about-security-of-sha1

Hehehe.

Cheers.
-C

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Shlomi Fish <shlo...@shlomifish.org> wrote:

> Hi C R!
>
> (or in the spirit of Talk Like a Pirate Day - "High Sea, arrr!".)
>
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:19:54 +0100
> C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I run a London Linux Meet, where a bunch of Linux and open source folks
> > have drinks and discuss Linux, and free software.
> >
> > At the last meet I was showing off GIMP, as I often do when asked "what
> do
> > you do?" There's the usual ooohing and ahhing as I show what GIMP allows
> me
> > to do easily as a designer.
> >
> > This time, I got a strange comment from a new visitor to our group. He
> said
> > "GIMP development? What's the point of that?" in a rather sarcastic tone.
> >
> > In such cases I have to push down my annoyance with the tone and answer
> the
> > question properly, because I know such comments usually come from one of
> > two places:
> >
> > a) User has tried GIMP, but didn't take time to learn enough to get past
> > things that aren't obvious.
> > b) User has heard that GIMP is hard to use, and is not an adequate tool
> for
> > professionals.
> >
> > Both of these point of views are skewed, but I find all it takes is a
> short
> > walk-through and sometimes question answering about how to do what they
> > want. Most people just want a show, though. Someone to prove to them that
> > their preconceptions of GIMP are incorrect, or at least incomplete.
> >
> > In this case, I opted to give the fireworks/show. My weapons of choice
> this
> > time included the unified transform tool, the handle-transform tool, and
> > the warp transform tool-
> > "Without development, we (designers/users) would not have these new
> > features, which will be released in the next version, and are available
> now
> > via the gimp-edge repo."
> >
> > I love the change in expression. You can SEE the change from the
> sceptical
> > arm-foldedness, to hands-on hips, or chin-scratching that indicated not
> > only a change in perspective, but also imagining the possibilities.
> >
> > "Without dedicated people constantly working to improve GIMP, we would
> not
> > have any of this, and nothing to look forward to. It's an incredible
> gift,
> > and allows us to work with complete freedom. It's there for the taking,
> for
> > the enjoyment of everyone. All one has to do is reach for it with
> patience
> > that is necessary for learning (any) complex and extremely powerful
> > graphics application."
> >
> > I just wanted to again say thanks, and relay that even on days where it
> > seems no one has anything good to say about GIMP, you've got fans who
> > genuinely appreciate the work you do, and believe in what GIMP is, and
> > enjoy what it will become in the future with your tremendous efforts.
> >
> > You're presently causing ooohs and ahhhs, in London. :)
> >
> > The question: "What's the point?" is a curious one.
> > As a developer in the project, what are your reasons for working on GIMP?
> > What are your motivations? What do you enjoy most about it?
> >
>
> Well, it's been a while since I've intensively worked on GIMP, but I'll
> give it
> a shot. First of all, I'd like to answer the question why I am a proponent
> of
> FOSS. I find a lot of open source software cool and useful and in addition
> I
> had a bad experience with a certain proprietary software app (BitKeeper)
> that
> ended up becoming unavailable to me, and as a result decided to try to
> avoid
> proprietary software in the future as much as possible. I've written about
> it
> here -
> https://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/261w6v/why_i_
> do_not_trust_nonfoss_and_why_you_shouldnt/ .
>
> Since I like and prefer FOSS, and am a capable software developer
> (including in
> programming) I like to spend my time to improve it or otherwise promote it,
> in order to make it better and more popular. I covered my motivation and
> mentality in this post -
> http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il/msg56378.html
> .
>
> Now naturally, I found some b

Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

Yes, I always ask, because more often than not, it's just something small
that's got them stuck. This particular user had tried GIMP, and "found it
hard to use". I couldn't get any more clarification, as it was apparently
"several years ago" that they had tried to use GIMP and had "forgotten the
specifics". I give these folks the show to serve as motivation to try GIMP
again. He may return with questions, which I'm always more than happy to
answer.

 GIMP will never be as easy to use as Instagram. :)

Comments I've gotten from pro users that can be addressed directly by
interested developers:
1. Can't see what's being transformed because the guides get in the way. (I
tell them to turn guides to "none")
2. Can't see what's under what's being transformed because the
non-transformed layer stays under the transformation preview ( I tell them
to hide the layer that's being transformed, so they can see what they are
doing in relation to what's under it. Then un-hide the layer once the
transformation is complete)
3. Doesn't "handle CMYK" (I point them towards work-arounds like using
other applications to convert (no one I've talked to liked separate++ as a
solution to that one, unfortunately. :) )
4. The text layer doesn't stay as vector/editable text when you transform
it. (A known limitation of the current text tool implementation, I tell
them to try Inkscape or Scribus for text layout.)

My solutions to the above workflow bottlenecks:
1. Set the default for guides to "none". I've never found one situation
where they helped what I was doing, and they persistently get in the way
unless I turn them off.
2. Hide the layer that's being transformed while the transformation is in
progress, such that you can see the transformation preview in relation to
the rest of the image behind it.
3. Just toss in something that exports to a CMYK tiff using separate++. I
know this is not a cleam solution, but I doubt anyone would notice. Most
designers I've discussed this with are unaware of the difficulties, and are
happy to go with whatever the defaults are on Photoshop. It would be the
same for GIMP, I believe.
4. Text tool needs a lot of love, but that's not really news to anyone, I
think. :)

I would be happy to work directly with anyone who wants to tackle these, or
any other issues. :)

Thanks again for all the work!
-C

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Kevin Payne  wrote:

> >At the last meet I was showing off GIMP, as I often do when asked "what do
> >you do?" There's the usual ooohing and ahhing as I show what GIMP allows
> me
> >to do easily as a designer.
> >
> >This time, I got a strange comment from a new visitor to our group. He
> said
> >"GIMP development? What's the point of that?" in a rather sarcastic tone.
>
> 
>
> >The question: "What's the point?" is a curious one.
> >As a developer in the project, what are your reasons for working on GIMP?
> >What are your motivations? What do you enjoy most about it?
>
> You made some assumptions about what might have prompted such a question
> BUT did you actually ask them why they felt it necessary to ask? I'm sure
> it would be useful to know the basis for such an opinion,  which could then
> be addressed directly.
>
> Kevin
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

>
> Also, my apologies about hijacking. I thought you wanted to know why most
> people don't care about Gimp.
>

It's probably better to read an email/post carefully before responding.
That was not at all the question. :P

You could easily start a complaint email thread or a bug report for that
issue. It's not that I don't care about problems which (some) Mac users
have, it's that in this email thread, I care more about thanking developers
for their hard work, and getting to know about what motivates them. If
you're a developer, you could easily get involved with troubleshooting and
correcting any bugs you find. THEN you could possibly answer my question,
as a GIMP developer.

Just something to think about. :)

I will continue to post my positive experiences and successes with GIMP,
and  hope in the future they will not be seen as an invitation/excuse for
someone to complain.

-C


On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:57 C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> AFAIK, on Inkscape things just looks a bit uglier. On Gimp, it's either
>>> lose half the pixels, OR view everything at 2x zoomed.
>>
>>
>> So... zooming OUT is out of the question for some strange reason? :P
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>>>
>>
>> I lived through many mysteriously blurred images before I realized what
>>> was
>>> going on. On photos it may not be noticeable, but on screengrabs it
>>> certainly is.
>>>
>>
>> As a professional user, you use many screen-grabs in your work?
>> Not saying it's not an issue... but a "pretty major issue"... yea, no.
>> Doesn't sound like it to me.
>>
>> Also, it must be a Mac-only issue, because I've used GIMP on a 4K Dell
>> XPS 13 screen which annihilates the resolution on "retina" Macbooks, and it
>> was crisp as hell. No pixel doubling. Only issue is you had to zoom in a
>> lot because the pixels are so tiny. This was running Linux though. Maybe
>> we're just lucky? Inkscape had a worse time of the 4K screen because it has
>> to re-draw all the shapes. It was really slow, but DPI scaling cured it.
>> More pixels = more processor overhead. Ymmv.
>>
>> Thanks for hijacking my email thread to complain about your user issue,
>> btw.
>> -C
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Marius K.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:41 Michael Schumacher <schum...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On September 23, 2016 3:25:33 PM GMT+02:00, Marius Kjeldahl <
>>> > marius.kjeld...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > So the tl;dr is: there is no support for retina display (or other high
>>> dpi
>>> > displays).
>>> >
>>> > Or did I miss any other kissues in the post?
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Michael
>>> > ___
>>> > gimp-developer-list mailing list
>>> > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
>>> > List membership:
>>> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
>>> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>>> >
>>> ___
>>> gimp-developer-list mailing list
>>> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
>>> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-
>>> developer-list
>>> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>>>
>>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

>
> AFAIK, on Inkscape things just looks a bit uglier. On Gimp, it's either
> lose half the pixels, OR view everything at 2x zoomed.


So... zooming OUT is out of the question for some strange reason? :P

(snip)

>

I lived through many mysteriously blurred images before I realized what was
> going on. On photos it may not be noticeable, but on screengrabs it
> certainly is.
>

As a professional user, you use many screen-grabs in your work?
Not saying it's not an issue... but a "pretty major issue"... yea, no.
Doesn't sound like it to me.

Also, it must be a Mac-only issue, because I've used GIMP on a 4K Dell XPS
13 screen which annihilates the resolution on "retina" Macbooks, and it was
crisp as hell. No pixel doubling. Only issue is you had to zoom in a lot
because the pixels are so tiny. This was running Linux though. Maybe we're
just lucky? Inkscape had a worse time of the 4K screen because it has to
re-draw all the shapes. It was really slow, but DPI scaling cured it. More
pixels = more processor overhead. Ymmv.

Thanks for hijacking my email thread to complain about your user issue, btw.
-C


>
> Thanks,
>
> Marius K.
>
>
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 15:41 Michael Schumacher  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On September 23, 2016 3:25:33 PM GMT+02:00, Marius Kjeldahl <
> > marius.kjeld...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?
> >
> >
> > So the tl;dr is: there is no support for retina display (or other high
> dpi
> > displays).
> >
> > Or did I miss any other kissues in the post?
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Michael
> > ___
> > gimp-developer-list mailing list
> > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> > List membership:
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
> >
> ___
> gimp-developer-list mailing list
> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-
> developer-list
> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

Not to mention that GNU/Linux is NOT a Unix. ;P
At any rate, still curious to hear from real developers in the GIMP
project, and motivation for working on the project.

If I want to hear about why Mac enthusiasts don't like GIMP (or Inkscape),
I'll defo post the question to the GIMP user mailing list. :P

-C

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Marius Kjeldahl wrote:
> > Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?
>
> The blog post, among other things, states this:
>
> "Gimp and Inkscape ... both claim to support retina/hidpi displays"
>
> I dare you link to pages on gimp.org and inkscape.org that support this
> claim.
>
> Alex
> ___
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> developer-list
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>
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[Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[C R]

I run a London Linux Meet, where a bunch of Linux and open source folks
have drinks and discuss Linux, and free software.

At the last meet I was showing off GIMP, as I often do when asked "what do
you do?" There's the usual ooohing and ahhing as I show what GIMP allows me
to do easily as a designer.

This time, I got a strange comment from a new visitor to our group. He said
"GIMP development? What's the point of that?" in a rather sarcastic tone.

In such cases I have to push down my annoyance with the tone and answer the
question properly, because I know such comments usually come from one of
two places:

a) User has tried GIMP, but didn't take time to learn enough to get past
things that aren't obvious.
b) User has heard that GIMP is hard to use, and is not an adequate tool for
professionals.

Both of these point of views are skewed, but I find all it takes is a short
walk-through and sometimes question answering about how to do what they
want. Most people just want a show, though. Someone to prove to them that
their preconceptions of GIMP are incorrect, or at least incomplete.

In this case, I opted to give the fireworks/show. My weapons of choice this
time included the unified transform tool, the handle-transform tool, and
the warp transform tool-
"Without development, we (designers/users) would not have these new
features, which will be released in the next version, and are available now
via the gimp-edge repo."

I love the change in expression. You can SEE the change from the sceptical
arm-foldedness, to hands-on hips, or chin-scratching that indicated not
only a change in perspective, but also imagining the possibilities.

"Without dedicated people constantly working to improve GIMP, we would not
have any of this, and nothing to look forward to. It's an incredible gift,
and allows us to work with complete freedom. It's there for the taking, for
the enjoyment of everyone. All one has to do is reach for it with patience
that is necessary for learning (any) complex and extremely powerful
graphics application."

I just wanted to again say thanks, and relay that even on days where it
seems no one has anything good to say about GIMP, you've got fans who
genuinely appreciate the work you do, and believe in what GIMP is, and
enjoy what it will become in the future with your tremendous efforts.

You're presently causing ooohs and ahhhs, in London. :)

The question: "What's the point?" is a curious one.
As a developer in the project, what are your reasons for working on GIMP?
What are your motivations? What do you enjoy most about it?

-C
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Re: [Gimp-developer] How to retrieve the monitor profile from inside a plug-in

[C R]

I was thinking for my own purposes, but it might be a useful way to let
people test different configurations without having to change the defaults
they are used to. That's one thing I love about the AppImage, is it can
happily live right along side my installed ppa, and I have two versions of
GIMP, one that lets me assist others, and another tweaked to my preferences.

Also, remember how popular GIMPshop was for a while? It was mainly just a
ver of GIMP with re-mapped hotkeys.
I still hear people asking for it, and since that project is dead, it has
become a bit of a hazard...
http://askubuntu.com/questions/821983/how-to-install-gimpshop-on-ubuntu-16-04/821985#821985

A better option would be to have an AppImage with remapped hotkeys. I mean,
it's still not good, but better than people trying to install untrustworthy
tarballs with adware.

In the near future, I want to set up a website dedicated to sharing and
revising workflows in GIMP and other FLOSS programs.
I'd like to make a game of seeing how fast things can be done for various
workflows and revise mine, and share. It will be easier to identify
workflow bottlenecks, so the ones that are common between different tasks
can be addressed, plans drawn up, and submitted along with workflow
statistics to GIMP devs for consideration. I believe this would be much
more useful than simply complaining that one thing affects one workflow,
and offering half, or bad solutions to the problem.

It would be neat to let people try out new configs based on the
current-fastest setup without moving a lot of files around, and leaves devs
free to attend to more important things than hotkey preferences.

Thanks again for the info. :)
-C


On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Carmelo DrRaw <aferrero1...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> On 08 Sep 2016, at 09:01, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Indeed. I'm finding the speed to be roughly the same as I'm used to with
> the GIMP ppa.
>
> Out of curiosity, is it possible to package a different set of GIMP
> defaults with an AppImage?
> For example, say I wanted to:
>
> 1. Set NoHalo as the default interpolation mode for all transformations
> 2. Set the preview opacity to 75% during all transformations
> 3. Map (or remap) hotkeys
>
> Is there a way to do this in an AppImage?
>
>
> There might be a way to do that, but I would be very reluctant to do so,
> simply because each person has its own preferences…
>
> But you can easily copy your GIMP preferences over to the appimage, like
> this:
>
> cp -a $HOME/.config/GIMP/2.9 $HOME/.config/GIMP-AppImage/
> rm -f $HOME/.config/GIMP-AppImage/pluginrc
>
> Best,
> A
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> -C
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:33 PM, Carmelo DrRaw <aferrero1...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 07 Sep 2016, at 22:28, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> This is fantastic! I could see this become my preferred way to use GIMP.
>> G'MIC works like a charm, can't make it break. Used a 2000x2000 test
>> image, and it just flies!
>>
>>
>> At this point, the performances of the AppImage should be very close, if
>> not equivalent, to the standard GIMP.
>>
>> Well done, and thanks!
>>
>>
>> You are welcome!
>>
>>
>> -C
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 7:13 PM, Carmelo DrRaw <aferrero1...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, it worked!!!
>>>
>>> The only part which is still missing is the tracking of monitor changes.
>>>
>>> I have prepared a special GIMP AppImage with the patched gmic plug-in,
>>> if anyone is interested to test it and give some feedback:
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfo6okeqhx4kv5u/gimp-2.9
>>> .5-20160906.glibc2.15-x86_64.AppImage?dl=0
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrea
>>>
>>> > On 06 Sep 2016, at 18:35, Michael Natterer <mi...@gimp.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, 2016-09-06 at 16:47 +0200, Carmelo DrRaw wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 06 Sep 2016, at 16:41, Michael Natterer <mi...@gimp.org> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Tue, 2016-09-06 at 16:30 +0200, Carmelo DrRaw wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In GIMP git master, you would say
>>> >>>
>>> >>> gimp_preview_area_set_color_config (gimp_preview_get_area
>>> >>> (preview),
>>> >>> gimp_get_color_configuration
>>> >>> ());
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks! However, I assume that the ICC conversion is done in this
>>> >> case using 8-bits precision, right?
>>> >>
&g

Re: [Gimp-developer] How to retrieve the monitor profile from inside a plug-in

[C R]

Indeed. I'm finding the speed to be roughly the same as I'm used to with
the GIMP ppa.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to package a different set of GIMP
defaults with an AppImage?
For example, say I wanted to:

1. Set NoHalo as the default interpolation mode for all transformations
2. Set the preview opacity to 75% during all transformations
3. Map (or remap) hotkeys

Is there a way to do this in an AppImage?

Thanks!

-C

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:33 PM, Carmelo DrRaw <aferrero1...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> On 07 Sep 2016, at 22:28, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is fantastic! I could see this become my preferred way to use GIMP.
> G'MIC works like a charm, can't make it break. Used a 2000x2000 test
> image, and it just flies!
>
>
> At this point, the performances of the AppImage should be very close, if
> not equivalent, to the standard GIMP.
>
> Well done, and thanks!
>
>
> You are welcome!
>
>
> -C
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 7:13 PM, Carmelo DrRaw <aferrero1...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, it worked!!!
>>
>> The only part which is still missing is the tracking of monitor changes.
>>
>> I have prepared a special GIMP AppImage with the patched gmic plug-in, if
>> anyone is interested to test it and give some feedback:
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfo6okeqhx4kv5u/gimp-2.
>> 9.5-20160906.glibc2.15-x86_64.AppImage?dl=0
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea
>>
>> > On 06 Sep 2016, at 18:35, Michael Natterer <mi...@gimp.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Tue, 2016-09-06 at 16:47 +0200, Carmelo DrRaw wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On 06 Sep 2016, at 16:41, Michael Natterer <mi...@gimp.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, 2016-09-06 at 16:30 +0200, Carmelo DrRaw wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> In GIMP git master, you would say
>> >>>
>> >>> gimp_preview_area_set_color_config (gimp_preview_get_area
>> >>> (preview),
>> >>> gimp_get_color_configuration
>> >>> ());
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks! However, I assume that the ICC conversion is done in this
>> >> case using 8-bits precision, right?
>> >>
>> >> I would like to take advantage of the fact that G’MIC handles
>> >> floating-point precision, by doing the ICC conversion before the
>> >> conversion to 8-bits…
>> >
>> > Moreover, this API only makes sure an assumed-to-be-sRGB image
>> > is displayed correctly in 8 bit.
>> >
>> > You can omit this call, and feed color-corrected pixels to
>> > the preview directly, look at the GimpColorTransform API
>> > in libgimpcolor, which is a simple wrapper around lcms
>> > (which you don't need to use at all).
>> >
>> > For the image profile, use gimp_image_get_effective_color_profile(),
>> >
>> > for getting the transform, best use gimp_widget_get_color_transform()
>> > which will look up the right display profile by itself.
>> >
>> > Also, use gimp_widget_track_monitor() so you can recreate
>> > the transform when the window is moved to another monitor.
>> >
>> > For example code, grep for
>> >
>> > gimp_widget_get_color_transform
>> > gimp_widget_track_monitor
>> >
>> > in libgimpwidgets/ and app/widgets/
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > --Mitch
>> >
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> My question was if this is a plug-in against GIMP 2.8 (soon
>> >>> obsolete)
>> >>> or against GIMP git master.
>> >>>
>> >>> I wouldn't bother do add color management to a GIMP 2.8 plug-in
>> >>> and I have never tried.
>> >>
>> >> I see… G’MIC is already adapted to high bit depth and 2.9 API, so I
>> >> think it is worth adding proper color management.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Andrea
>> >>
>> >> ___
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>> >> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org <mailto:gimp-developer-
>> l...@gnome.org>
>> >> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-develop
>> <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-develop>
>> >> er-list
>> >> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list <
>> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] How to retrieve the monitor profile from inside a plug-in

[C R]

This is fantastic! I could see this become my preferred way to use GIMP.
G'MIC works like a charm, can't make it break. Used a 2000x2000 test image,
and it just flies!
Well done, and thanks!

-C

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 7:13 PM, Carmelo DrRaw 
wrote:

> Thanks, it worked!!!
>
> The only part which is still missing is the tracking of monitor changes.
>
> I have prepared a special GIMP AppImage with the patched gmic plug-in, if
> anyone is interested to test it and give some feedback:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfo6okeqhx4kv5u/gimp-2.9.5-
> 20160906.glibc2.15-x86_64.AppImage?dl=0
>
> Regards,
> Andrea
>
> > On 06 Sep 2016, at 18:35, Michael Natterer  wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 2016-09-06 at 16:47 +0200, Carmelo DrRaw wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 06 Sep 2016, at 16:41, Michael Natterer  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, 2016-09-06 at 16:30 +0200, Carmelo DrRaw wrote:
> >>>
> >>> In GIMP git master, you would say
> >>>
> >>> gimp_preview_area_set_color_config (gimp_preview_get_area
> >>> (preview),
> >>> gimp_get_color_configuration
> >>> ());
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thanks! However, I assume that the ICC conversion is done in this
> >> case using 8-bits precision, right?
> >>
> >> I would like to take advantage of the fact that G’MIC handles
> >> floating-point precision, by doing the ICC conversion before the
> >> conversion to 8-bits…
> >
> > Moreover, this API only makes sure an assumed-to-be-sRGB image
> > is displayed correctly in 8 bit.
> >
> > You can omit this call, and feed color-corrected pixels to
> > the preview directly, look at the GimpColorTransform API
> > in libgimpcolor, which is a simple wrapper around lcms
> > (which you don't need to use at all).
> >
> > For the image profile, use gimp_image_get_effective_color_profile(),
> >
> > for getting the transform, best use gimp_widget_get_color_transform()
> > which will look up the right display profile by itself.
> >
> > Also, use gimp_widget_track_monitor() so you can recreate
> > the transform when the window is moved to another monitor.
> >
> > For example code, grep for
> >
> > gimp_widget_get_color_transform
> > gimp_widget_track_monitor
> >
> > in libgimpwidgets/ and app/widgets/
> >
> > Regards,
> > --Mitch
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> My question was if this is a plug-in against GIMP 2.8 (soon
> >>> obsolete)
> >>> or against GIMP git master.
> >>>
> >>> I wouldn't bother do add color management to a GIMP 2.8 plug-in
> >>> and I have never tried.
> >>
> >> I see… G’MIC is already adapted to high bit depth and 2.9 API, so I
> >> think it is worth adding proper color management.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Andrea
> >>
> >> ___
> >> gimp-developer-list mailing list
> >> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org  gimp-developer-list@gnome.org>
> >> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-develop <
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-develop>
> >> er-list
> >> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list <
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP 2.9.x AppImage for testing

[C R]

Tested with:
Ubuntu 16.04 (64bit) with Gnome 3.18.5, 16GB RAM, Lenovo X220 Tablet,
Intel® Core™ i5-2520M CPU @ 2.50GHz × 4

All works well! Does this contain the MyPaint brush library? I can't seem
to find it if it's included.

Also, I only get the message "Should a desktop file ..." on the first run,
then I'm able to run the new desktop file like I do regularly (by hitting
the Super key, and typing GIMP). The appimage only should be run once,
correct?

The only other thing is that running GIMP from the app image is much slower
than GIMP installed from repo. That's probably to be expected, I guess, but
thought it was worth mentioning. It still loads faster than Photoshop! :)

Thanks a lot for all your work, and making this available to everyone!

-C


On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carmelo DrRaw 
wrote:

>
> > On 05 Aug 2016, at 11:16, Boudewijn Rempt  wrote:
> >
> > Cool! It seems to work on my 64 bits opensuse, but I get a lot of
> messages like:
> >
> > (gimp:29821): Gtk-WARNING **: /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/engines/libpixmap.so:
> wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32
>
> It might be that one needs to include the gtk engines in the AppImage...
>
> >
> > Is your recipe available somewhere?
>
> I have created a gist with the current version: https://gist.github.com/
> aferrero2707/2da99aae425eca8c8afb61b3fb5532f9  aferrero2707/2da99aae425eca8c8afb61b3fb5532f9>
>
> Thanks for checking!
>
> Andrea
>
> >
> > Boudewijn
> >
> > On Fri, 5 Aug 2016, Carmelo DrRaw wrote:
> >
> >> Last night I have prepared a first appimage for testing. It contains:
> >>
> >> - BABL, GEGL and GIMP from git
> >> - all default mypaint brushes
> >> - G’MIC plug-in from version 1.7.5_pre (latest available)
> >> - PhotoFlow plug-in for opening and processing RAW images
> >>
> >> * Link to the AppImage: https://www.dropbox.com/s/
> f57496onpct2zm7/gimp-2.9.5.glibc2.15-x86_64.AppImage?dl=0
> >>
> >> The usage is very simple:
> >>
> >> - download the appimage anywhere on your disk
> >> - make the .AppImage file executable with chmod u+x
> >> - run the .AppImage file from the console
> >>
> >>
> >> Any feedback is highly appreciated...
> >>
> >>> On 04 Aug 2016, at 18:47, Karl-Heinz Zimmer 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Carmelo,
> >>>
> >>> I am interesting in testing the appimage, my system: OpenSUSE Leap 42.1
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Karl-Heinz
> >>>
> >>> 2016-08-04 12:54 GMT+02:00 Carmelo DrRaw :
>  Dear all,
> 
>  I am working on an AppImage recipe that gets BABL, GEGL libmypaint
> and GIMP from git, compiles them and bundles them into a portable AppImage.
> >>> ..
>  Is there any volunteer for testing the experimental gimp appimage and
> give feedback? If yes, please specify which distribution will be used for
> testing.
> >>> ..
> >>
> >> ___
> >> gimp-developer-list mailing list
> >> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> >> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-
> developer-list
> >> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.krita.org, http://www.valdyas.org
>
> ___
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP 2.9.x AppImage for testing

[C R]

I'll be happy to test on Ubuntu 16.04

-C

On 5 Aug 2016 10:00 am, "Carmelo DrRaw"  wrote:

> Last night I have prepared a first appimage for testing. It contains:
>
> - BABL, GEGL and GIMP from git
> - all default mypaint brushes
> - G’MIC plug-in from version 1.7.5_pre (latest available)
> - PhotoFlow plug-in for opening and processing RAW images
>
> * Link to the AppImage: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f574
> 96onpct2zm7/gimp-2.9.5.glibc2.15-x86_64.AppImage?dl=0
>
> The usage is very simple:
>
> - download the appimage anywhere on your disk
> - make the .AppImage file executable with chmod u+x
> - run the .AppImage file from the console
>
>
> Any feedback is highly appreciated...
>
> > On 04 Aug 2016, at 18:47, Karl-Heinz Zimmer  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Carmelo,
> >
> > I am interesting in testing the appimage, my system: OpenSUSE Leap 42.1
> >
> > Cheers
> > Karl-Heinz
> >
> > 2016-08-04 12:54 GMT+02:00 Carmelo DrRaw :
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> I am working on an AppImage recipe that gets BABL, GEGL libmypaint and
> GIMP from git, compiles them and bundles them into a portable AppImage.
> > ..
> >> Is there any volunteer for testing the experimental gimp appimage and
> give feedback? If yes, please specify which distribution will be used for
> testing.
> > ..
>
> ___
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> /listinfo/gimp-developer-list
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Ctrl-Shift-clicking your way to a new layermask

[C R]

Hi Michael. The help that you need to revise the patch to your liking, is
it strictly code? Or would you like some user feedback for the changes you
want?

I would be happy to assist with the later if Ben is too busy to continue,
if you want to make the code changes yourself.

Thanks.
-C

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 7:10 AM, Michael Natterer <mi...@gimp.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 2016-07-14 at 08:01 -0400, Ben wrote:
> > Hi C,
> >
> > I just posted to the bug report where i was at on this issue. I'm
> > rather
> > tired of debating it and bending over making changes. It either
> > stands
> > as is or dies. Have a good one.
>
> As I explained in the patch, I'd like to discuss some things
> about the patch, especially an approach to bring such dialog
> defaults to preferences in a more general manner.
>
> I'm sorry that it took me so long to have a closer look, this
> is all done in free time of which I can't generate more, but
> I also can't push patches I'm not happy with just because of
> lack of time.
>
> Dunno how to proceed, the patch will clearly go in in some
> form, do you still want to discuss it?
>
> Regards,
> Mitch
>
> > On 07/01/2016 09:56 AM, C R wrote:
> > > Hi Ben / Draekko software.
> > > Looks Like Mich asked you to come to IRC to discuss changes to the
> > > patch.
> > > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759601
> > >
> > > Can you follow up with him?
> > >
> > > Thanks, for your work and your continued help to make the patch a
> > > part
> > > of GIMP.
> > > -C
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Joseph Bupe <joseph.b...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > <mailto:joseph.b...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, he is both.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > gimp-developer-list mailing list
> > List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-develop
> > er-list
> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
> ___
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> List membership:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
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>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] ANNOUNCE: GIMP 2.9.4 released

[C R]

Thanks to everyone for making this happen! I'm certainly looking forward to
trying out the new toys, fixes and revisions.

Cheers, and great work!
-C

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Michael Natterer  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We just released the second development snapshot in the
> GIMP 2.9.x series leading to GIMP 2.10.
>
> This is an unstable development preview and might crash
> or do whatever. If you try it for work, please save your
> images more often.
>
> For a complete list of changes since 2.9.2 please see the
> "Changes" section below. We will also post more detailed
> news about GIMP 2.9 on www.gimp.org soon, stay tuned.
>
> Happy GIMPing,
> --Mitch
>
>
> Download
> 
>
>   GIMP 2.9.4 is available from:
>
>   http://download.gimp.org/pub/gimp/v2.9/
>
>   and from the mirrors listed at:
>
>   http://www.gimp.org/downloads/#mirrors
>
>   Please use the torrent, it distributes
>   the download bandwidth across all mirrors:
>
>   http://download.gimp.org/pub/gimp/v2.9/gimp-2.9.4.tar.bz2.torrent
>
>   The checksum of the tarball is:
>
>   6b3d425a7949110eeb532badedf721f3  gimp-2.9.4.tar.bz2
>
>
> Overview of Changes from GIMP 2.9.2 to GIMP 2.9.4
> =
>
> Core:
>
>   Color Management:
>   - add new GimpColorTransform object to create abstraction from
> LittleCMS
>   - now color-managed:
> - layer/image/color palette/gradient/pattern previews
> - Color Picker tool
> - color buttons of GimpColorHistory
> - GimpFgBgEditor, as used e.g. in the toolbox
> - color selectors
> - DND widget
> - painting tools
> - copying layers/paste buffer between images
> - Colors applied to images
> - GimpColorPanel and its color dialog (color widgets in dialogs)
> - color areas created from menu actions
>   - color management for grayscale images, including setting preferred
> ICC profile
>   - add fast switching between color managed display and soft-proofing
>   - add a per-image "is color managed" switch and show the image's
> "is color managed" state in the window title string
>   - add basic support for creating images with color profiles
>   - add "Optimize" options for display and soft-proofing to optionally
> speed-up rendering at the cost of color fidelity
>   - add Image -> Color Management -> Save Color Profile to File...
>   - improve the naming of generated ICC profiles
>   - add a shortcut to the profile chooser dialog on OS X too
>   - don't let display color management settings affect file import
>   - enable color management when a profile is assigned to the image
>   - enable color management when the image is converted from/to
> grayscale
>   - pass the right color profile around in gimp_selection_float()
>   - hardcode the CMYK selector's conversion parameters, as well as NTSC
> parameters in babl/GEGL/GIMP
>   - have all previews track the monitor they are on
>
>   Core:
>   - add "Select -> Flood" select action
>   - add "Select -> Remove Holes" action
>   - add "Border style" combo to the "Select -> Border..." dialog
>   - do not request xcf compat mode when compat_toggle not sensitive
>   - initialize fontconfig in the background to be able to show a
> pulsing progress bar when rebuilding the list of fonts (typically,
> the first time GIMP runs)
>   - fix the Behind blending mode
>   - make Burn mode output match Gimp 2.8 (partial revert of bug 744265)
>   - improve file magic matching
>   - add a custom guide concept
>   - improve updating the statusbar messages and icons
>
>
> GUI:
>
>   Menus:
>   - move the image-duplicate action next to image-new
>   - add Image -> Color Management -> Color Management Enabled
>   - change "Select _Custom Color..." to "_Custom Color..."
>   - change "Export" to "Export..." in the File menu
>
>   Dialogs:
>   - include recently used colors in the Dockable Colors dialog
>   - add RGB-based Luminance channel to the Histogram dialog
>   - fix remembering the order of dockable dialogs
>
>   Preferences:
>   - reorder the prefs categories tree and rename some pages
>   - move "Snap Distance" to the prefs dialog's "Snapping" page
>   - add configuration for undo preview size
>   - clean-up Preferences -> Color Management
>   - add "Shortcut [some modifier] + Mousewheel" for changing pen size
>
>   Themes:
>   - rename theme "Default" into "System"
>   - add new GUI themes: Lighter, Light, Gray, Dark, Darker
>
>   Icons:
>   - add icon theme selection and make the icon theme path configurable
> in prefs
>   - preserve 2.8 pixel-perfect icon theme under the name "Legacy"
>   - add new symbolic icon theme for GIMP
>   - add a scalable icon theme and a configure option --enable-vector-
> icons
>
>   Widgets:
>   - add new GimpBufferSourceBox widget and use it in GimpOperationTool
>
>   View/Display:
>   - fix various bugs related to rotated canvas
>   - make GIMP not ignore 'Maximized' hints on startup in Windows
>   - enable 

Re: [Gimp-developer] Ctrl-Shift-clicking your way to a new layermask

[C R]

Hi Ben / Draekko software.
Looks Like Mich asked you to come to IRC to discuss changes to the patch.
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759601

Can you follow up with him?

Thanks, for your work and your continued help to make the patch a part of
GIMP.
-C

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Joseph Bupe  wrote:

> Well, he is both.
>
>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

> 1. I think the pencil tool should be renamed "Pixel Tool" if it's to stay
> > in the Tool box.
> > Reasons:
> >   A. Jaggies don't make for realistic simulated pencil marks
> >   B. There are better pencil-simulation tools in the Brush palate
>
> I am not sure that renaming a tool that old would be a good idea. People
> know
> what to look for, and at the end of the day it's just a name. No one
> expects
> it to be a realistic pencil. At least no one accustomed to the tool (see
> Product Vision for the intended target audience).
>


I don't see anything in the Product Vision that says tools need to stay the
way they are because that's the way they've been.
Maybe a link to the specific area of the document would help me understand.

>
>
> I am using the two in parallel all the time when drawing masks. The brush
> for
> the edges and the pencil to fill in the bulk. Reason: I want to be sure
> that
> anti aliasing doesn't leave half transparent areas. So I have my left hand
> on
> the keyboard to hit 'x', 'n' and 'b' and the right hand on mouse/stylus.
>

We (you and I), make masks the same way. I also use "d" to reset the true
black and true white for foreground and background.
'b' is the paths tool... did you mean 'p'? If you are painting a mask
inside an area, using the Pencil tool runs the risk of producing jaggies on
your nice anti-aliased edges, which is why I never use it for that.

Anyway, the effect would be the same if you switched from brush to brush
using just the paint tool, and the modifications I've mentioned.


> 3. The Pencil Tool could be gotten rid of entirely if #2 is done, and an
> > anti-aliasing checkbox is added to the brush options.
>
> As Simon already mentioned, there are two levels of anti
> aliasing/blurring/thresholding/whatever we want to call it. Would that
> switch
> turn off both?
>

Yes. It would "snap" as Simon would say. :)

see my #4 for improving how thresholding with a gradient across a fussy
edged brush could be improved.
100% hardness would produce results more or less identical to what you get
with the Pencil tool now.



> [...]
>
> Tobias
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

>
> Maybe you should write "I wish that someone else does".
>

When discussing possibilities, it is less important what I wish. My aim is
to provide good useful input, towards a consensus.
-C


On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Tobias Ellinghaus <h...@gmx.de> wrote:

> On Thursday 23 June 2016 08:43:55 C R wrote:
> > To recap:
> >
> > 1. I think the pencil tool should be renamed "Pixel Tool" if it's to stay
> > in the Tool box.
> > Reasons:
> >   A. Jaggies don't make for realistic simulated pencil marks
> >   B. There are better pencil-simulation tools in the Brush palate
>
> I am not sure that renaming a tool that old would be a good idea. People
> know
> what to look for, and at the end of the day it's just a name. No one
> expects
> it to be a realistic pencil. At least no one accustomed to the tool (see
> Product Vision for the intended target audience).
>
> > 2. I think Brush settings should be brush specific instead of tool
> > specific, and the brush should remember the modifications made to it
> > instead of the tool storing that information.
> > Reason: I can't think of a situation where you would want to use the
> > current Pencil tool, and Brush tool in tandem. If we're keeping it in the
> > Tool Box just to remember values between brushes, I'm not sure who it's
> > benefiting. :)
>
> I am using the two in parallel all the time when drawing masks. The brush
> for
> the edges and the pencil to fill in the bulk. Reason: I want to be sure
> that
> anti aliasing doesn't leave half transparent areas. So I have my left hand
> on
> the keyboard to hit 'x', 'n' and 'b' and the right hand on mouse/stylus.
>
> > 3. The Pencil Tool could be gotten rid of entirely if #2 is done, and an
> > anti-aliasing checkbox is added to the brush options.
>
> As Simon already mentioned, there are two levels of anti
> aliasing/blurring/thresholding/whatever we want to call it. Would that
> switch
> turn off both?
>
> [...]
>
> Tobias
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

To recap:

1. I think the pencil tool should be renamed "Pixel Tool" if it's to stay
in the Tool box.
Reasons:
  A. Jaggies don't make for realistic simulated pencil marks
  B. There are better pencil-simulation tools in the Brush palate

2. I think Brush settings should be brush specific instead of tool
specific, and the brush should remember the modifications made to it
instead of the tool storing that information.
Reason: I can't think of a situation where you would want to use the
current Pencil tool, and Brush tool in tandem. If we're keeping it in the
Tool Box just to remember values between brushes, I'm not sure who it's
benefiting. :)

3. The Pencil Tool could be gotten rid of entirely if #2 is done, and an
anti-aliasing checkbox is added to the brush options.
Reasons:
  A. It extends any benefits of aliased lines and makes it available as a
mixing item to make brushes more varied and flexible.
  B. It could be represented better and more visibly as a MyPaint brush,
rather than one more thing to clutter the tool box and accidentally click
instead of the brush tool. :)
  C. It may improve first impressions of GIMP, because all modern digital
illustration programs have pencil simulators, and the natural thing to do
is click on the first pencil icon you see and start sketching. The user is
currently greeted with jaggy pixel lines that you can't make look like real
pencil marks no matter how many options you tweak. :)

4. The Pencil tool, renamed Pixel Tool, could be improved upon by keeping
the hardness value slider, and dithering the resulting gradient on soft
brushes. This would be an excellent improvement, as it would make things
like pixel shading that much easier while preserving the retro. :)

I think that's it so far. :)

Thoughts?




On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 7:20 AM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In the interests of moving on with more important things than the
> symantics of "we", I can attempt to extract the team aspect from my
> verbiage.
>
> I can say for example: "It can be done this way." or "It might be decided
> that."
> It sounds cold, and impersonal to me, but if it allows us to move forward
> with discussing GIMP UI and features, then I'll do my best.
>
> -C
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 7:06 AM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So when I say "we can do this", I should say "I can do this"?
>> I do wonder if people actually read what I post. :)
>>
>> -C
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 6:34 AM, JLuc <j...@no-log.org> wrote:
>>
>>> As for the "we"
>>> Le 22/06/2016 22:48, C R a écrit :
>>>
>>>> I admit that I don't care at all who "we" includes. Substitute with
>>>> "interested parties". I'm well aware that even great ideas might never
>>>> get
>>>> priority. There are no promises, no guarantees. Right now "we" includes
>>>> just who is here. If we are not allowed to discuss what we, might do or
>>>> might want to do in the future, then I've missed the point entirely.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just a remark.
>>>
>>> Maybe you imagine that speaking as "we" or "interested parties"
>>> gives more weight to your words.
>>> But how do you know that all the 'I' we are dont disagree with
>>> what you think 'we' think or experience ?
>>> As a gimp user's, i havent granted anybody the right to speak on my
>>> behalf !
>>>
>>> So, I appreciate when contibutors speak as 'I', not 'we',
>>> - all the more when you "dont care at all who 'we' is" -.
>>>
>>> Beside being more honest,
>>> a clear "I" testimony will sound much stronger than a twisted "we".
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> :-)
>>> JLuc
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 Jun 2016 8:31 pm, "Tobias Ellinghaus" <h...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday 22 June 2016 18:28:45 C R wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Already answered this before. "We" is the community. The community is
>>>>>>
>>>>> made
>>>>>
>>>>>> of everyone involved in the GIMP project who can act to improve it.
>>>>>> So if
>>>>>> we as a community decide it's worth changing, then we can change it. I
>>>>>> mean, that's usually the point the point of the developer mailing
>>>>>> list,
>>>>>>
>>>>> no?
>>>>>
>>>>> There seems to be a mi

Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

In the interests of moving on with more important things than the symantics
of "we", I can attempt to extract the team aspect from my verbiage.

I can say for example: "It can be done this way." or "It might be decided
that."
It sounds cold, and impersonal to me, but if it allows us to move forward
with discussing GIMP UI and features, then I'll do my best.

-C

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 7:06 AM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So when I say "we can do this", I should say "I can do this"?
> I do wonder if people actually read what I post. :)
>
> -C
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 6:34 AM, JLuc <j...@no-log.org> wrote:
>
>> As for the "we"
>> Le 22/06/2016 22:48, C R a écrit :
>>
>>> I admit that I don't care at all who "we" includes. Substitute with
>>> "interested parties". I'm well aware that even great ideas might never
>>> get
>>> priority. There are no promises, no guarantees. Right now "we" includes
>>> just who is here. If we are not allowed to discuss what we, might do or
>>> might want to do in the future, then I've missed the point entirely.
>>>
>>
>> Just a remark.
>>
>> Maybe you imagine that speaking as "we" or "interested parties"
>> gives more weight to your words.
>> But how do you know that all the 'I' we are dont disagree with
>> what you think 'we' think or experience ?
>> As a gimp user's, i havent granted anybody the right to speak on my
>> behalf !
>>
>> So, I appreciate when contibutors speak as 'I', not 'we',
>> - all the more when you "dont care at all who 'we' is" -.
>>
>> Beside being more honest,
>> a clear "I" testimony will sound much stronger than a twisted "we".
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> :-)
>> JLuc
>>
>>
>> On 22 Jun 2016 8:31 pm, "Tobias Ellinghaus" <h...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 22 June 2016 18:28:45 C R wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> Already answered this before. "We" is the community. The community is
>>>>>
>>>> made
>>>>
>>>>> of everyone involved in the GIMP project who can act to improve it. So
>>>>> if
>>>>> we as a community decide it's worth changing, then we can change it. I
>>>>> mean, that's usually the point the point of the developer mailing list,
>>>>>
>>>> no?
>>>>
>>>> There seems to be a misunderstanding of how this software works. The
>>>> "community" (whoever that might include) can decide whatever it wants,
>>>> but
>>>> this is not a democracy, so the real decision is made by others. Mostly
>>>> mitch.
>>>> Who seems to stay away from all the bike shedding on this list more and
>>>> more.
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> Tobias
>>>> ___
>>>> gimp-developer-list mailing list
>>>> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
>>>> List membership:
>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
>>>> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>> List membership:
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>>>
>>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

So when I say "we can do this", I should say "I can do this"?
I do wonder if people actually read what I post. :)

-C


On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 6:34 AM, JLuc <j...@no-log.org> wrote:

> As for the "we"
> Le 22/06/2016 22:48, C R a écrit :
>
>> I admit that I don't care at all who "we" includes. Substitute with
>> "interested parties". I'm well aware that even great ideas might never get
>> priority. There are no promises, no guarantees. Right now "we" includes
>> just who is here. If we are not allowed to discuss what we, might do or
>> might want to do in the future, then I've missed the point entirely.
>>
>
> Just a remark.
>
> Maybe you imagine that speaking as "we" or "interested parties"
> gives more weight to your words.
> But how do you know that all the 'I' we are dont disagree with
> what you think 'we' think or experience ?
> As a gimp user's, i havent granted anybody the right to speak on my behalf
> !
>
> So, I appreciate when contibutors speak as 'I', not 'we',
> - all the more when you "dont care at all who 'we' is" -.
>
> Beside being more honest,
> a clear "I" testimony will sound much stronger than a twisted "we".
>
> Thanks in advance,
> :-)
> JLuc
>
>
> On 22 Jun 2016 8:31 pm, "Tobias Ellinghaus" <h...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>> On Wednesday 22 June 2016 18:28:45 C R wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Already answered this before. "We" is the community. The community is
>>>>
>>> made
>>>
>>>> of everyone involved in the GIMP project who can act to improve it. So
>>>> if
>>>> we as a community decide it's worth changing, then we can change it. I
>>>> mean, that's usually the point the point of the developer mailing list,
>>>>
>>> no?
>>>
>>> There seems to be a misunderstanding of how this software works. The
>>> "community" (whoever that might include) can decide whatever it wants,
>>> but
>>> this is not a democracy, so the real decision is made by others. Mostly
>>> mitch.
>>> Who seems to stay away from all the bike shedding on this list more and
>>> more.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Tobias
>>> ___
>>> gimp-developer-list mailing list
>>> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
>>> List membership:
>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
>>> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
>> List membership:
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
>> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

I admit that I don't care at all who "we" includes. Substitute with
"interested parties". I'm well aware that even great ideas might never get
priority. There are no promises, no guarantees. Right now "we" includes
just who is here. If we are not allowed to discuss what we, might do or
might want to do in the future, then I've missed the point entirely.
On 22 Jun 2016 8:31 pm, "Tobias Ellinghaus" <h...@gmx.de> wrote:

> On Wednesday 22 June 2016 18:28:45 C R wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Already answered this before. "We" is the community. The community is
> made
> > of everyone involved in the GIMP project who can act to improve it. So if
> > we as a community decide it's worth changing, then we can change it. I
> > mean, that's usually the point the point of the developer mailing list,
> no?
>
> There seems to be a misunderstanding of how this software works. The
> "community" (whoever that might include) can decide whatever it wants, but
> this is not a democracy, so the real decision is made by others. Mostly
> mitch.
> Who seems to stay away from all the bike shedding on this list more and
> more.
>
> [...]
>
> Tobias
> ___
> gimp-developer-list mailing list
> List address:gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> List membership:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
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>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

>
> > Speaking as a digital painter (samples available upon request), I can
> tell
> > you the Pencil tool does not replace a pencil brush. In fact, the pencil
> > tool acts nothing like a pencil at all. :) Could re-name it the
> > "pixel-tool" but it absolutely sucks at being a pencil in just about
> > every way it possibly could. ;)
>
> Perhaps you could list specific characteristics of a Pencil tool that
> would not suck? :)
>

Sure, but we already have multiple pencil tools in the MyPaint brushes that
would work great for that... anti-aliasing is essential for a realistic
pencil mark, don't you agree? :)

If the general idea is to make the Pencil tool (more) useful, pointing
> out existing deficiencies, then sketching a proposal would be a lot
> more constructive.
>

No, we're discussing the pencil tool as a digital painting tool. It's a bad
pencil tool, but it's NOT a bad pixel tool. That's my point. :)



> > Your input is welcome. It's important to find a good solution that makes
> > GIMP easier to use. Great ideas don't come from only seasoned digital
> > painters, so thanks for all your input.
> >
> > So thanks again for your contribution to the conversation.
> >
> > I'm not willing to get rid of it unless we can put the functionality
> > somewhere else.
>
> This part of the conversation puzzles me. Elle is acknowledged
> contributor to GIMP as per AUTHORS, but you aren't.


That's true. I've never heard of AUTHORS though. Is that acronym on the
website somewhere? :)


> So how come _you_
> welcome _her_ input?


Don't you? I definitely welcome her input, and I assume most people who
have been following and commenting on these lists do as well.

You're trying to say since I'm not a developer, I can't tell Elle that I
(and other designers and programmers, and other members of the community
that I know) value her input?

Or are you saying that my compliment and reassurance is worth nothing
because I'm not in the authors list? She expressed concern over her input
in an area of knowledge that I have lots of experience in... should I not
say that Elle's input is welcome?

When I say that it's welcome, that's because it is. That means that I'll
read it carefully, process it and think of new solutions to help in making
suggestions for GIMP, that can then be acted on (or not) by interested
parties.


> And who is that "we" that can put the
> functionality somewhere else? Am I missing a vital point here?
>

Already answered this before. "We" is the community. The community is made
of everyone involved in the GIMP project who can act to improve it. So if
we as a community decide it's worth changing, then we can change it. I
mean, that's usually the point the point of the developer mailing list, no?

I can't change it myself, nor would I presume to act by myself even if I
were able to. When I talk about things we are discussing related to GIMP, I
use "we" with the qualifier "can" because we can do it, if we decide we
want to. I'm not saying "we will", notice. Is that what you think? That I'm
trying to represent everyone, and make decisions for them? If so, please
understand, that's not at all what I mean.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 5:55 PM, C R wrote:
>
> > Speaking as a digital painter (samples available upon request), I can
> tell
> > you the Pencil tool does not replace a pencil brush. In fact, the pencil
> > tool acts nothing like a pencil at all. :) Could re-name it the
> > "pixel-tool" but it absolutely sucks at being a pencil in just about
> > every way it possibly could. ;)
>
> Perhaps you could list specific characteristics of a Pencil tool that
> would not suck? :)
>
> If the general idea is to make the Pencil tool (more) useful, pointing
> out existing deficiencies, then sketching a proposal would be a lot
> more constructive.
>
> > Your input is welcome. It's important to find a good solution that makes
> > GIMP easier to use. Great ideas don't come from only seasoned digital
> > painters, so thanks for all your input.
> >
> > So thanks again for your contribution to the conversation.
> >
> > I'm not willing to get rid of it unless we can put the functionality
> > somewhere else.
>
> This part of the conversation puzzles me. Elle is acknowledged
> contributor to GIMP as per AUTHORS, but you aren't. So how come _you_
> welcome _her_ input? And who is that "we" that can put the
> functionality somewhere else? Am I missing a vital point here?
>
> Alex
> ___
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

Hi Elle. :) Thanks for your input...


> I think Americo's suggestion (original topic of thread) was that the
> Hardness slider be removed from the list of options for the Pencil, simply
> because this slider doesn't seem to affect the actual paint applied using
> the Pencil.
>

Yes. I think we all agreed that was a good idea.

This suggestion seems like a good idea because it's confusing to users to
> have an available slider that doesn't actually do anything. Also the
> resulting list of tool options for the Pencil would be shorter, so there's
> less likelihood of the toolbox needing a slider to access all of the tool
> options menu, which is always a good thing.
>

Yep. You got it right-on-the-money. :)


The suggestion was subsequently made to remove the Pencil tool and add
> additional options to the Brush tool to allow to transform the Brush into
> the Pencil. Even if this were possible, doing this would:
>
>   * Make the current Brush options list longer, increasing the likelihood
> of the toolbox needing a slider to show all the Brush tool options.
>

*looks at gimp trunk* - Well, we seem to be well past the point where we're
caring about too many options... I have 3 pages of scrolldown already. ;)
We could decrease the spacing between the checkboxes and fit an extra
checkbox in there if it's really on the edge of being too much, I think...


>   * Increase the number of keyboard/click/etc actions that would be
> required for people who do use the Pencil for painting.
>

Speaking as a digital painter (samples available upon request), I can tell
you the Pencil tool does not replace a pencil brush. In fact, the pencil
tool acts nothing like a pencil at all. :) Could re-name it the
"pixel-tool" but it absolutely sucks at being a pencil in just about
every way it possibly could. ;)

  * Increase the possible combinations of sliders for the Brush tool, which
> would make the Brush options more confusing, less easy to use.
>

It's already really, really complicated. lol. However, take a look at the
myPaint brushes. See how each one has an icon that shows what the brush
does. It even shows whether it's supposed to be a pencil or not. Now
imagine a brush preset with a pencil on it, with pixels coming out the tip
in the way it does on canvas currently. That, imho is a far better solution
than having a pencil tool that doesn't act like a pencil.

Personally I've only been experimenting with digital painting over the last
> year or so, so take my input for what it's worth (complete amateur). But
> the Pencil tool seems pretty important because it creates hard edges on the
> brush stamps, which for various dynamics creates a different and often very
> pleasing result compared to the Brush tool (uses aren't limited to pixel
> art and drawing pixel-perfect boxes).
>

It actually destroys brushes, and it does not create hard edges so much as
it creates jagged ones. In digital painting, jaggies are not your friend.
The exception, of course is pixel art.

imho the 3 worst things you can have in a digital painting program (for
digital painting) are:
1. Visibly replicated brush patterns (the exception is repeated stamp-like
brushes like paw or footprints)
2. Bad anti-aliasing (or no anti-aliasing)
3. No tapering of line width based on acceleration or pressure. (The
exception is round or square oil-paint brushes, and some markers)

The MyPaint brush system combats a lot of these issues, as do recent
additions to GIMP's own brush options (all 5k of them. ;))

Your input is welcome. It's important to find a good solution that makes
GIMP easier to use. Great ideas don't come from only seasoned digital
painters, so thanks for all your input.

So thanks again for your contribution to the conversation.
-C



>
> Possibly the people who want to remove the Pencil tool simply don't use
> this particular painting tool?
>

I'm not willing to get rid of it unless we can put the functionality
somewhere else. That said, I've only ever used it for pixel art.


>
> Best,
> Elle
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

>
> You know, I actually reread, and I find the thread highly confusing.
>

I'll try to help explain, if it's not going to upset you...


> It starts with the hardness-parameter in the pencil tool, then goes on
> to how paintbrush is so similiar to the pencil tool, how the pencil tool
> can get removed, then pat getting confused that "hardness" would be the
> relevant property here (hint: it isn't)


I know, but from the user-perspective, it could be. However, I think it
should be a checkbox instead, because it would be annoying to have to go to
99% to get an anti-aliased edge. :)

then brush presets and then
> Americo (wrongly) claiming, that (currently!) "anti-aliasing" is the unique
> difference between pencil and paintbrush.


Maybe it's not, but you didn't explain your position very well, instead
suggesting that I try to use the brush tool to get the effect (which
doesn't work).
When I said it would not give the same results you thought it would, you
got tetchy. Don't get "tetchy". This is after you seemed to understand what
I was saying, which makes it even more confusing. Why get tetchy at all? :)



> Which I disputed. Then you
> proposed that a "pixel brush" (whatever that means - I read that as "a
> 1x1 hard-edged brush) would be an adequate replacement for the pencil
> tool (And no, a brush alone can't solve this problem).
>

Which I have explained 5 times now that this is only if it includes the
(topic of this thread) proposed no anti-aliasing checkbox. Yet, I'm not
getting tetchy back at you (except the once as an example of why we
shouldn't). :)
In fact, I'll be happy to repeat that however many times you like, in as
many ways as I can think of:

There should be no difference between a one-pixel brush (1x1, yes you are
correct) and the current "snapping" behaviour.
With other brushes, yes maybe.
But not with that 1px brush.


And now I am the one to blame for getting tetchy when all those weird
> terms are thrown around and everybody seems to talk about different
> things?
>

When I get frustrated to the point of becoming irritable, I generally back
off, and take a break to think about the problem a bit more. We all get
tetchy. It's important not to stay tetchy though for the purpose of
collaboration.

> You are describing the behaviour as "snapping". It's not snapping, it's
> > just not averaging.
> > The effect is the same, however. One click of the mouse, one pixel is
> > coloured in. It does not matter what you call it.
>
> Ah, "averaging". Another term that yet has not been used in this thread
> (I think).
>

Okay, then "thresholding". I think that's one you mentioned, use that
instead. :)


What does it mean to "average" a pixel brush on a drawable?
>

It could mean lots of things. For simplicity, let's take the Pencil tool as
an example:

1. A fuzzy pencil brush could take the threshold you mentioned and apply a
pixel-dithering algorithm across it to create a gradient, spanning that
threshold simulates alpha across the threshold rather than actually using
alpha.
2. A fuzzy pencil brush actually use alpha and use it across that
threshold, since, as you mentioned it's not only using aliasing algorithm,
it's applying a threshold to see which pixels are turned on or "snapped".
3. It could do a combination of 1 and 2.

The question applies to what people use the Pencil tool for. So far there's
two things that I can see from the list:

1. for making pixel art
2. for making pixel-perfect rectangles and horizontal and vertical lines.

I'm willing to consider more, that's just what's been mentioned so far, and
provides the context for which I'm basing possible ui changes (iff we
decide it satisfies or improves the tools or the GIMP UI).

Yes, that's "if and only if". Not a typo. :)


> And why is it not snapping when the pixel grids of the bŕush and the
> drawable keep getting aligned to pixel borders?
>

That's what anti-aliasing does... If you don't click directly in the center
of a pixel, it will average 1 pixels worth of colour across four pixels,
weighted by the click's proximity to the exact center of each of those four
pixels. You turn anti-aliasing off, the whole pixel's worth of colour will
be dumped into the pixel you clicked on. If you happen to click directly
inbetween two or four pixels, nearest neighbor algorithm will pick one of
them for you. It will not fill in two pixels or four pixels. If it did so,
it would produce chunky lines which are more than one-px wide/thick.


> The fun fact is, that neither the paintbrush nor the pencil tool "draw
> lines" in the sense of a line in inkscape. They just repeatedly stamp
> the brush onto the canvas (or an intermediate canvas for non-incremental
> painting) at certain coordinates. "Anti-Aliasing" in the sense of
> "rendering a vector polygon onto pixels cairo-style" does not apply here.
>

Another fun fact is that it doesn't matter. :)
Correct if wrong, but no matter whether you click, click and drag, or
click, then shift-click 

Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

I did, I just misunderstood. :) I also replied about it too with a
 possibly better solution to brush presets problems.

-C

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 2:44 PM, C R wrote:
> >> > I still recommend adding the no anti-aliasing option to the brush
> though
> >>
> >> That would involve somehow making GIMP to switch presets when swapping
> >> Wacom pens, for starters. As Liam pointed out before.
> >
> >
> >
> > Why would pen presets be affected?
>
> Read the entire email thread again :-P
>
> GIMP maps Wacom pens and pens' ends to different tools and remembers
> that mapping across sessions. Remove the Pencil tool, and you can't
> use one Wacom pen for Brush and another Wacom pen for Brush with AA
> off.
>
> Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

Ah, I think I see.
The presets could be stored as they are now, and the tool simply switched
with the checkmark.
We could also think about storing presets via brush instead of via tool.
That would be much more useful, imho.

-C

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 12:44 PM, C R <caj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I still recommend adding the no anti-aliasing option to the brush though
>>
>> That would involve somehow making GIMP to switch presets when swapping
>> Wacom pens, for starters. As Liam pointed out before.
>>
>
>
> Why would pen presets be affected?
> Also, we could just have the checkbox switch to the pencil tool
> automatically on the back end, if everyone really likes how it presently
> works. :)
> Obviously, switch back if unchecked.
>
> -C
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Alex
>> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

>
> > I still recommend adding the no anti-aliasing option to the brush though
>
> That would involve somehow making GIMP to switch presets when swapping
> Wacom pens, for starters. As Liam pointed out before.
>


Why would pen presets be affected?
Also, we could just have the checkbox switch to the pencil tool
automatically on the back end, if everyone really likes how it presently
works. :)
Obviously, switch back if unchecked.

-C




>
> Alex
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

> So if we get brush option to turn anti-aliasing off, we'll have 3 tools to
> make pixel art with..



Hahaha! What do you want to bet it probably works /slightly/ different than
either results from no anti-aliasing on brush, or the how the Pencil tool
works.
smh. ;) Obviously we have some things to decide. I still recommend adding
the no anti-aliasing option to the brush though, to use to test agains
these other methods.

-C


>
>
> -Petteri
>
>
> On 22.6.2016 13:40, Simon Budig wrote:
>
>> C R (caj...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>
>>> Have you actually tried to do what I outlined above?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you? lol
>>> No - I haven't. It's not currently possible to turn off anti-aliasing on
>>> the brush tool, so it's not possible to "test" it.
>>>
>> Ah, sorry. I missed that we're discussing hypothetical future
>> characteristics of the tools here. I was just looking at the current
>> difference between the pencil and the paintbrush tool.
>>
>> However, knowing how anti-aliasing works, your statement is incorrect...
>>>
>> Well, if you choose to label the behaviour I described as
>> "pixel-grid-snapping" (or the lack thereof) as "anti-aliasing" then it
>> is not me who is making the error here. I actually don't think that they
>> are the same.
>>
>> The paintbrush tool resamples the brush when the pixel grid of the brush
>>>
>>>> is not perfectly aligned to the pixel grid of the image.
>>>>
>>> Yes, but with anti-aliasing turned off (which you can't presently), it
>>> wouldn't.
>>>
>>> A perfect non-antialiased 1 pixel brush typically gets spread across
>>>> four adjacent pixels in the image, assuming you're working with a high
>>>> zoom level and don't specifically align the brush to the pixel grid of
>>>> the image.
>>>>
>>> I don't know why you would assume that. :)
>>> It's incorrect at any rate.
>>>
>> This is *exactly* what the current paint brush tool does. And it really
>> is no rocket science to test it. Just do as I explained above. I even
>> did just a few moments ago, even if I knew this behaviour for years.
>>
>> Anti-aliasing IS what average pixels to spread over a 4-pixel block.
>>> If you turn it off (which, again, you can't currently in the brush tool),
>>> and a single click with a 1px brush fills more than one pixel, then that
>>> would be incorrect behaviour.
>>>
>> The Pencil tool does two things (compared to the paintbrush) that are
>> independent of each other:
>>
>> a) it thresholds the alpha channel of the brush (with a quite low
>> threshold)
>>
>> b) it snaps the pixels of the brush to the pixels of the image, so that
>> no resampling occurs.
>>
>> This is the *current* state of Gimp. And it has been like this for ages.
>>
>> If we want to put that as an option into the paintbrush (and lose the
>> pencil) then describing both of these behaviours combined as
>> "anti-aliasing" is IMHO misleading and wrong.
>>
>> Bye,
>>  Simon
>>
>>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

>
>
> Ah, sorry. I missed that we're discussing hypothetical future
> characteristics of the tools here. I was just looking at the current
> difference between the pencil and the paintbrush tool.
>

Yes, it saves time if everyone reads the entire thread before commenting.
I'm guilty of this too sometimes, though, so don't worry about it. :)



> > However, knowing how anti-aliasing works, your statement is incorrect...
>
> Well, if you choose to label the behaviour I described as
> "pixel-grid-snapping" (or the lack thereof) as "anti-aliasing" then it
> is not me who is making the error here. I actually don't think that they
> are the same.
>

Anti-aliasing is a computer science  term used for rendering lines and
fills, and also for resampling.

You are describing the behaviour as "snapping". It's not snapping, it's
just not averaging.
The effect is the same, however. One click of the mouse, one pixel is
coloured in. It does not matter what you call it.
The options for drawing a line in a raster image are generally either

1.Anti-aliased
2.Nearest-neighbor (aliased, or "snapping" as you like to call it. :) )


> The paintbrush tool resamples the brush when the pixel grid of the brush
> > > is not perfectly aligned to the pixel grid of the image.
> >
> > Yes, but with anti-aliasing turned off (which you can't presently), it
> > wouldn't.
> >
> > > A perfect non-antialiased 1 pixel brush typically gets spread across
> > > four adjacent pixels in the image, assuming you're working with a high
> > > zoom level and don't specifically align the brush to the pixel grid of
> > > the image.
> >
> > I don't know why you would assume that. :)
> > It's incorrect at any rate.
>
> This is *exactly* what the current paint brush tool does. And it really
> is no rocket science to test it. Just do as I explained above. I even
> did just a few moments ago, even if I knew this behaviour for years.
>

Ah, I thought you understood. Please go back and read the entire email
thread.

*It's not "rocket science" to do that either, or to understand that it's
not possible to show what the brush tool would do with no anti-aliasing in
GIMP.
I already know that the brush tool currently averages, this whole thread is
about adding a feature to the brush tool to replace the pencil tool.*

* - Now, see how mean that sounded? Does it make you a bit angry? Aren't
you glad I don't use that same tone in the rest of this email? :)
Let's be nice to eachother.

Again, the behaviour would be the same, otherwise it would not be a
single-pixel line, and would be an error in the aliasing (or nearest
neighbor, or snapping).

The Pencil tool does two things (compared to the paintbrush) that are
> independent of each other:
>
> a) it thresholds the alpha channel of the brush (with a quite low
> threshold)
>
> b) it snaps the pixels of the brush to the pixels of the image, so that
> no resampling occurs.
>

Again, b) is no different than nearest-neighbor algorithm for drawing
aliased lines (or resampling images).


a) That's a more interesting issue. And is worth noting for brushes that
are not hard-edged, or have Alpha. To test we would have to turn off
anti-aliasing and see. It could be handled in lots of different ways. The
way the Pencil tool currently works in this regard may or may not be the
best.

For example, if you choose a fuzzy brush in the pencil tool, it's not fuzzy
at all. It's still a hard-edged circle. Would it not be better to dither
instead with solid pixels? You could do a lot more and much faster with
pixel art if this were the case.



> This is the *current* state of Gimp. And it has been like this for ages.
>
> If we want to put that as an option into the paintbrush (and lose the
> pencil) then describing both of these behaviours combined as
> "anti-aliasing" is IMHO misleading and wrong.
>

The behaviour for one-pixel brush like you described is not misleading or
wrong. If there are other side-effects, we can see what those are, and
correct or improve the behaviour as we like. As it is, there is no way to
test it in GIMP.

A logical first step would be to add the feature (which is a good one to
add to Brushes anyway), then see if it replaces the Pencil tool adequately.
If so, then replace it.
If not, then don't. :)

-C

--
  si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

> Have you actually tried to do what I outlined above?
>
>
Have you? lol
No - I haven't. It's not currently possible to turn off anti-aliasing on
the brush tool, so it's not possible to "test" it.
However, knowing how anti-aliasing works, your statement is incorrect...

The paintbrush tool resamples the brush when the pixel grid of the brush
> is not perfectly aligned to the pixel grid of the image.
>

Yes, but with anti-aliasing turned off (which you can't presently), it
wouldn't.


> A perfect non-antialiased 1 pixel brush typically gets spread across
> four adjacent pixels in the image, assuming you're working with a high
> zoom level and don't specifically align the brush to the pixel grid of
> the image.
>

I don't know why you would assume that. :)
It's incorrect at any rate.

Anti-aliasing IS what average pixels to spread over a 4-pixel block.
If you turn it off (which, again, you can't currently in the brush tool),
and a single click with a 1px brush fills more than one pixel, then that
would be incorrect behaviour.

-C


>
> The pencil tool doesn't do that.
>
> Bye,
> Simon
> --
>   si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

> C R (caj...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > A pixel brush seems like an adequate replacement for that functionality.
>
> Again, no.
>
> Try working with a pixel brush in a bigger magnification and check how
> the pixel-grid-snapping of the pencil tool makes a huge difference to
> the paintbrush.

If there's no anti-aliasing on the pixel brush, please explain how it would
differ from the behaviour of the pencil tool.

I think you'll find it wouldn't. :)

-C

>
> Bye,
> Simon
>
> --
>   si...@budig.de  http://simon.budig.de/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

A pixel brush seems like an adequate replacement for that functionality.

-C

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Ofnuts  wrote:

> On 21/06/16 17:00, Americo Gobbo wrote:
>
>>
>> the Pencil tool is a classic.
>>
>
> A little-used classic. It has its uses (pixel art), but on the whole I
> have much more often redirected pencil users to the brush that the reverse.
>
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

>
> While tossing around wild ideas, what about allowing people to add tool
> presets to their toolbox? That way you could have your pencil back by
> adding
> such a preset.
>

For the two tools in question, this feature already exists. It's called the
"Brushes" palate. ;)
-C




>
> Tobias
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[C R]

That's fine, except then you lose a dedicated tool to switch back and forth
from.

That said, I never ever have any use for the pencil tool. It would not make
me sad to see it go in favour of reducing number of tools.
It hardly seems worth having two tools that do the same thing apart from
one option.

My 2p.
-C



On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Ofnuts <ofn...@gmx.com> wrote:

> Shouldn't we instead get rid of the pencil tool and add a no-anti-aliasing
> option to the brush?
>
> On 20/06/16 20:51, C R wrote:
>
>> Yep, may as well. lol
>> -C
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Andrew Pullins <android2...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like a good idea
>>> On Jun 15, 2016 10:51 PM, "Americo Gobbo" <jag.rabi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>> The Hardness parameter to Pencil Tool is not utilized, but is present in
>>>> its Tool Options. Reading the documentation: “The Pencil tool is used to
>>>> draw free hand lines with a hard edge. The pencil and paintbrush are
>>>> similar tools. The main difference between the two tools is that
>>>> although
>>>> both use the same type of brush, the pencil tool will not produce fuzzy
>>>> edges, even with a very fuzzy brush. It does not even do anti-aliasing.”
>>>> If I have reason, I suggest delete the hardness Pencil parameter on tool
>>>> options, to avoid mistakes/misleading on the UI.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> americo
>>>>
>>>>
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