FOSS multimedia (was: ORPF - One Radio Per Family)
Jon 'maddog' Hall mad...@li.org writes: I am working on an article about FOSS multimedia, and I found this video which I thought was worth passing along; http://www.mdlf.org/en/main/multimedia/ On that note, for anyone else like me who missed this because they were spending 180 hours a week with their heads buried in code...: http://sitasingstheblues.com/ I think Nina Paley's now my hero, along with Dolph Lundgren. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [GNHLUG] Hey, Wiki, you're so fine... CentraLUG, 7 June 2010, Hopkinton Public Library
Ted Roche tedro...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to make it to this meeting, but would still like to contribute a pointer to Wikkid: https://launchpad.net/wikkid Cool! Have you used it? Anything really cool or really lame about it? I haven't actually used it, yet. I particularly like: * No locks. * Offline edits; fork-and-merge capability. * Easy to run locally. If Wikkid makes it possible to use an actual text-editor to edit page-texts, even better--then it'd basically resolve all of my gripes with Wikis over the past decade. The idea of using a modern version control system as the data store is intriging. TWiki uses RCS Indeed. About a decade ago, back when I was using and administering CVS, I tried to make use of TWiki's RCS-backed nature to integrate it with CVS and Emacs vc-mode. That... sort-of worked..., but not really. And, even if it *had* worked as well as CVS/RCS might have ultimately allowed, it wouldn't have worked anywhere near as well as something bzr-based could. while MediaWiki (and many, many others) use MySQL.. Yep. As far as I've seen, even where these MySQL-based projects have been able to invent their own limited-scope revision-control wheels, none of them appear to have even started thinking about solving any of the other problems that Penhey and co. are going to have pre-solved for them in Wikkid. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
Dan Jenkins d...@rastech.com writes: On 6/10/2010 2:11 PM, Bill Sconce wrote: I got an e-mail a couple of weeks ago, from a public library in a small New Hampshire town, with the subject HELP SAVE US FROM MICROSOFT! (I am not making this up.) Such a plea caused me to do some perhaps-foolish things. I called the library; I volunteered to help them; I omitted to ask what hardware was involved. Does anyone have experience, either with this laptop (Dell Dimension E5500) or with getting a $#! Broadcom adapter to work (a 4318 apparently) -- or experience which justifies a decision to just not do this? I've had almost no trouble getting Broadcom to work with Ubuntu and Mandriva distros. Just get the most current versions. I haven't had as much luck with Fedora and Centos, though I didn't really try to; just gave the folk network cards which did work and put the Broadcoms in Windows laptops. (I had a surplus of laptops to exchange components between, and an enormous time crunch to just get things working.) I just had a thought along those lines, myself: depending on how much Bill's time is worth to him, might it actually make sense to just donate the $10-per ($20 total?) required to buy Linux-compatible WiFi adaptors? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: SCO loses, Novell wins finally
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Jeffry Smith jsm...@alum.mit.edu wrote: Hopefully someone soon will put a stake through their heart, cut their head off, fill their mouth with garlic, put silver coins on their eyes, then burn them, cover them in holy water, and dump the ashes into a volcano. If they blew him up, put his head in a blender, and mailed the rest of the pieces to Norway, he'd still return from the grave. That was part seven. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
David Rysdam da...@rysdam.org writes: On 06/10/2010 05:32 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: Dan Jenkins d...@rastech.com writes: I haven't had as much luck with Fedora and Centos, though I didn't really try to; just gave the folk network cards which did work and put the Broadcoms in Windows laptops. (I had a surplus of laptops to exchange components between, and an enormous time crunch to just get things working.) I just had a thought along those lines, myself: depending on how much Bill's time is worth to him, might it actually make sense to just donate the $10-per ($20 total?) required to buy Linux-compatible WiFi adaptors? That was my very first thought as well. I was even going to ask what library it was. If it's one of the ones I visit, I'd be willing to chip in (or outright pay for it) too. If there are a lot of libraries being infected with Micros~1 generosity someone should form a roving band of Software Freedom Fighters... It's *us*. *We're* the Software Freedom Squad. Since when? Since *now*. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Recommendations...
Gerry Hull ge...@telosity.com writes: I just picked up an Lenovo X61 laptop the other day for a very good price. This 3lb unit is a dual-core t7...@2.6ghz, 4GB Ram and 100GB disk. I want to run Linux as the core operating system, and use VMWare to load Windows for my Windows work. I was thinking of Ubuntu 10.04. My question is should I do 32 or 64 bit? If I go 32-bit I will not be able to use all the ram, and if I go 64-bit I may not have all the drivers. What are your thoughts/recommendations? My wife has an X61, and the amd64 release of Debian 5.0 (Lenny) works perfectly on it. If Ubuntu 10.04 works for you in general, I don't see why it should be inherently more problematic to use the 64-bit version. One of our initial favourite things about going 64-bit was that, before there was a 64-bit build of the Flash plugin available, the 32-bit plugin would run `in' the 64-bit web-browser via nspluginwrapper, which meant that Flash would actually be in a separate process--which meant that when Flash crashed, it wouldn't take the browser down with it. Unfortunately, there's now a native 64-bit Flash plugin and more recent versions of the `flashplugin-nonfree' package use that instead of using nspluginwrapper; so Flash is back to taking the browser down with it, which means that there's one less advantage to running in 64-bit mode. It'd still go with it, though. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Recommendations...
Gerry Hull ge...@telosity.com writes: This is why I LOVE this list -- lots of great feedback. I'll go w/64-bit (trying it w/the live-CD first), and probably Virtualbox. BTW, I bought the X61 for $250, in mint condition, from Craigslist. Pretty good deal for a decent dual-core box. Oh, also: if you *do* run into any issues, take a look at ThinkWiki, the Linux/Thinkpad wiki: http://www.thinkwiki.org/ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: sourceforge what is going there?
Jeffry Smith jsm...@alum.mit.edu writes: One option would be to try FF with user-agent-switcher. I've logged into many sites with FF that claim to require IE, but when I use UAS to set FF to claim to be IE, they work fine. My favourite suggestion, which I saw somewhere a few weeks ago, is to try setting your User-Agent string to Googlebot -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Recommendations...
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Flaherty, Patrick pflahe...@wsi.com wrote: Flash 64bit is going away and java 64bit plugins for browsers are buggy for anything non-trivial. Are any 64-bit distros shipping 32-bit browser alternative packages? Seems to me that would solve the 32-bit browser plugin compatibility problem. http://packages.debian.org/stable/nspluginwrapper -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Recommendations...
Joseph Smith j...@settoplinux.org writes: On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:05:05 -0400, Gerry Hull ge...@telosity.com wrote: I'm also using the Oracle Version of Virtualbox. It is GNOME Desktop 2.30.0. After a cold start, if I try to start a VM in Virtualbox, I get the following pop-up: Virtualbox -- Error in suplibOsinit Kernel driver not installed (rc = -1908) with the suggestion of running: /etc/init.d/vboxdrv setup You could try adding that command to rc.local Or adding the symlink that's supposed to be in /etc/rc?.d/; e.g.: sudo ln --symbolic ../init.d/vboxdrv S99vboxdrv Except..., what? setup? What's it actually doing, anyway? Just modprobe'ing a driver into the kernel? Would it suffice to just add the name of the driver-module to /etc/modules? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Computer hardware poster by sonic84
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: I figure some here would appreciate this. http://sonic840.deviantart.com/art/Computer-hardware-poster-1-7-111402099 Standards are wonderful! There's so many to choose from! I actually got that quip as a fortune, recently. And I don't mean as output from the unix `fortune' program, I mean an actual paper fortune in an *actual fortune cookie* that actually came with Chinese take-out. I took this photograph as proof: http://www.hackerposse.com/~rozzin/standards.jpg -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Computer hardware poster by sonic84
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: Standards are wonderful! There's so many to choose from! I actually got that quip as a fortune, recently. And I don't mean as output from the unix `fortune' program, I mean an actual paper fortune in an *actual fortune cookie* that actually came with Chinese take-out. That's awesome! Hmmm. I wonder if some cookie company somewhere decided that they might as well use fortune(6) to obtain their copy... My bet is that they did a Web search for fortune quotes or something, and found... unix-style fortune files. This would mean that the meaning of fortune has basically come full circle--that the etymology has a loop in it. I wonder how many other etymologies are like that. Though, I can also imagine a comic scene in which the management at the fortune-cookie company is being asked to make a choice between two operating systems: one being Windows, which requires expensive licensing, specific hardware, layers of add-on security tools and procedures, regular comany-wide upgrade cycles and employee re-training, and a bunch of other things before the cookie-company can even start to consider what other third-party tools they'll need in order to actually *do stuff* (and how to procure the tools--and how to even *find* them...); and the other system being one that just boots up and starts printing fortunes on the screen (xscreensaver kicks on while the IT guy is busy answering questions about viruses relating to the first system). So, this one is infinitely more cost-effective, and is also specifically designed for generating fortunes? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Why does one interface interfere with another?
Greg Rundlett (freephile) g...@freephile.com writes: I have a system with two physical network interfaces; a cat45 ethernet port and a wireless card - otherwise known as any normal computer. I configured the wired interface (eth0) to be static by editing /etc/network/ interfaces (see bottom) and I let the network-manager applet handle the networking system, making my wireless interface address governed by DHCP. When the wired port has no connection (because I connect the cable to another system), the wireless gets all confused and doesn't connect. Sometimes it doesn't even show my wireless network (causing me to blame the Netgear wireless router and reboot the wireless router.) Trying a ping to the router, it tries to go through the wired address. Yes--you're telling the system to always bring up eth0 at boot, and to set your default gateway to something out through eth0. This happens even if there is NO wired connection from the time of boot. You're asking for this by specifying auto. It sounds like you want to use allow-hotplug and *not* auto; then you can have have network-manager or ifplugd manage the interface exclusively, sense whether there's a cable attached, and automatically ifup/ifdown the device when you connect/disconnect the cable. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux advocacy opportunity: Next generation 911 in NH
virgins...@vfemail.net writes: According to a recent Associated Press article, our insightful(?) leaders are contemplating upgrading New Hampshire's 911 system to accept multimedia such as text messages, photos, etc. They're requesting $4 million dollars for this... most of it for software(!) Does anybody see a great opportunity, here, for Linux advocacy? All that comes to mind for me is..., isn't `911 emergency call' exactly the sort of situation in which one wants synchronous, low-latency comms with ongoing `SYN/ACK' in both directions? And doesn't that rule out SMS and e-mail? But, yeah--if they're really intent on going through with this, they'd better damn well demand source so that we can know how, and even *if*, the system actually works; so that when someone dies because their `help me I'm trapped in a storm-drain' e-mail doesn't go through in time, everyone knows it's not a fault of the 911 system. Maybe NH 911 should establish a Facebook presence -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: And we thought they were dead :-)
Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org writes: BTW: The bankruptcy hearing scheduled for July 12th has been cancelled. *Again*? This is, what, the fourth time? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: In-house Ubuntu mirror.
Ken D'Ambrosio k...@jots.org writes: Hey, folks. I really like Ubuntu LTS -- indeed, it's what (most of) my servers are on. So... I'd like an in-house repository. I did that some years ago with Debian, but the repositories have gotten VASTLY larger, and I'm wondering if there's a trick I'm missing -- a graceful way -- on how to exclude the non-x86 (6432-bit) ports, other than inelegant rsync exclusions. apt-proxy? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Software Patents
Jon 'maddog' Hall mad...@li.org writes: Given that the patent system is an impingement on the liberties of 300,000,000 people (telling them what they may not do with their own property) to benefit one person or a small handful of his cohorts, the hurdle to prove the case ought to be set very, very high. I would argue that the impingement is on the liberties of 6.3 billion people. ... depending on where the patent is granted. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: FOSS multimedia
Mark E. Mallett m...@mv.mv.com writes: On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 12:22:26AM -0400, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: On that note, for anyone else like me who missed this because they were spending 180 hours a week with their heads buried in code...: http://sitasingstheblues.com/ I saw that quite a long time ago, but it must have gotten some recent buzz because I happened to notice over the weekend that it was one of the week's most downloaded films on archive.org's feature film collection (i.e., http://www.archive.org/details/feature_films ). I think Nina Paley's now my hero, along with Dolph Lundgren. Why Dolph? I can't even guess what to search for. Just read his Bio page on IMDB :) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Automatically mounting USB w/o GUI?
Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name writes: I want my USB drive to show up mounted on /media/some label after I plug it in. I don't mind having to type something on the command line to trigger it. In Solaris, I put a CD/Floppy/USB in and type volcheck. Then it checks for the presence of something and mounts it. I can type df and see where it mounts it. I don't run mount or anything else that requires root. If I want to use a file manager, I can. But I don't have to. pmount will get you the `mounting removable volumes/media without being root' feature. If you want it to happen *automatically*, you can try usbmount, or HAL + ivman. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Automatically mounting USB w/o GUI?
Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name writes: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: pmount will get you the `mounting removable volumes/media without being root' feature. /etc/fstab and the plain old mount command will get you the `mounting removable volumes/media without being root' feature. See the user, users, and owner options in mount(8), and the options field in fstab(5). -- Ben FWIW - pmount isn't on my Fedora system either. Hunh--I guess they don't install it by default. It does appear to be *in Fedora*, though: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/pmount -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Professional GCC support?
Tyson Sawyer ty...@j3.org writes: An excerpt from an email exchange where I work: A tool I just found out they spent $9k on (two floating licenses) called IAR says this about language support: _http://www.iar.com/website1/1.0.1.0/50/1/_ [...] Obviously there is also GCC for ARM processors. I was told IAR was purchased because management wanted to make sure nothing was holding up name in his work with the SAM7x camera controller. I'm told we can get support from IAR when we pay that much, and this does not exist when we decide to use GCC. It is my belief that that last statement is wrong. Can anyone point me to sources of professional support for GCC/G++ on embedded systems and some idea of what the pricing structure might be? This would be for a C/C++ on bare metal environment. Most of our work is on larger processors running Linux, but our microcontrollers have only recently started to be 32 bit systems that we might prefer to use GCC on. I'm looking for more than yeah, someone will take your money. I'm looking for something that provides a similar result to what is mentioned above. It would need to be support that keeps us on schedules. I'm not sure of specific details off the top of my head, but some names that come to mind: Monta Vista, Wind River, Allegro Consultants, Red Hat (GNUPro?); there are some others listed at the FSF's Service Directory: http://www.fsf.org/resources/service Could also try finding out where the active GCC maintainers all work ;) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
e-mail sync options?
This is going to start-off silly-sounding, but bear with me: My wife called and told me, a few months back, `Wikipedia is down!'. It took me a minute to figure out that she actually did mean that *Wikipedia* was down--not her laptop's WiFi, not our WAP, not our residential-grade DSL (*again*...), but Wikipedia. Of course, part of the reason that I was so befuddled by this was that *I* hadn't noticed. I'd consulted Wikipedia several times while it was down. Well, I'd consulted the Wikipedia *content*--not the web-site. When I bought my WikiReader, I had expected it to give me access to Wikipedia when *I* was offline, but it turned out that it also served me well when *Wikipedia* went offline. So, now I'm thinking: what other parts of the Internet can I download and carry around in my (offline) pocket? I know what you're thinking, and--for many aspects of the Internet-- you're right: that's just silly. But, for some things, is *does* make sense: e-mail, for example. Especially if I take the idea back to when *I'm* the one offline (like when I'm on a trip to Maine, working on one of my FOSS projects, and I realise that I need to dig something out of an e-mail thread to get past a block). Now, obviously I can't *send* or *receive* *new* e-mail unless I'm online, but I can *read* and *write* e-mail while offline. So, that's what I wanted to ask you all about (what better place to ask about e-mail than on an e-mail list? And I guess I'll take the answer *online*, for the time being...). The platforms where I care about this are on my laptop (running Debian), my desktop (idem), my server (idem), and on my FreeRunner (which is similar enough, inside). _What I want_: I'd like to be able to offline have access to my entire e-mail store from all devices--be able to search through and read messages, write messages and queue them for sending, move messages between folders, set/change flags on messages--and then have everything sync-up every which way when I go online: I want messages that have been queued for sending to be sent, I want messages that were already in the store(s) to have changes to their flags propagated, and I want new inbound messages to be retrieved and cached locally. Basically, I want everything mirrored everywhere, and I don't want to have to think about *where* something last changed. I could just write a suite of code to implement this myself, but maybe someone can save me the effort by pointing me to a canned solution :) _What I've tried_: Right now, I read my mail with Gnus in a Screen session on my server, talking to an IMAP server on the same host, which is also my MX and also services all of my SMTP needs. Mail is in a Maildir tree. Most of the flags are stored in the Maildir message status-bits (the trailing part of the message-files' names), but some flags are stored however the IMAP server does that. I occasionally run Claws Mail on the FreeRunner to read mail via IMAP, but all mail-reading/-writing is done through the Gnus/Screen session in the sky when I'm using either my laptop or desktop; though, if I can get a general N-way mail-sync solution in place, then I'd like to change that--and always read and write mail locally). The reason that Gnus is talking to a local IMAP server instead of just using the Maildir directly is partly that Gnus' Maildir support is basically terrible (and I should make an apology for the langauge, at this point, by paraphrasing Michael Elkins: all mail clients suck, but some suck less): the Gnus people invented their own method of storing message-flags *outside* of the Maildir flagspace, and Gnus assumes that it is the only thing reading the Maildir that cares about flags. To be fair, Gnus had to maintain its own list of flags when using Maildir, because it supports more flags than Maildir does (in other words, the other part of why I'm using a local IMAP server is that Maildir is also, in some aspects, terrible--though). Gnus appears to still suck (though less) even going through IMAP, because it doesn't quite have the right mapping between Gnus-internal and IMAP flags--Gnus' `expirable' and IMAP's `Deleted' seem analogous to me, but Gnus effectively doesn't map either flag in one space to *anything* in the other space, so all of my `expirable' messages just show up as `Seen' outside of Gnus, and all of my `Deleted' messages show up as `old' inside Gnus. I have a small hack in place that does equate `Deleted' and `expirable', but if anyone has another suggestion for working around this, or has an explanation of how I'm mistaken, or how VM-mode or something is better than Gnus, then I'd be appreciative. I've tried Thunderbird, and it doesn't look like a viable option-- partly because I can't stand the lousy built-in text-editor (though I guess there are extensions that'll kluge-in support for spawning an external editor), and because it doesn't have any functionality for cleaning-up the broken formatting in some of the messages that I
Re: e-mail sync options?
Ben Eisenbraun b...@klatsch.org writes: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:14:59AM -0400, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: _What I want_: I'd like to be able to offline have access to my entire e-mail store from all devices--be able to search through and read messages, write messages and queue them for sending, move messages between folders, set/change flags on messages--and then have everything sync-up every which way when I go online: I want messages that have been queued for sending to be sent, I want messages that were already in the store(s) to have changes to their flags propagated, and I want new inbound messages to be retrieved and cached locally. Basically, I want everything mirrored everywhere, and I don't want to have to think about *where* something last changed. This is what OfflineIMAP was written for: http://wiki.github.com/jgoerzen/offlineimap/ Here's an old Linux Journal article by the author talking about why he wrote and walking through some initial set up: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7232 Have fun. :-) Thanks, Ben--any thoughts on the `sync topology' question, since I've got 4+ machines where I want the mail-store kept in sync? If I can sync between machines on the same LAN segment when possible, and synch the laptop or handheld to the server in the sky when I'm off-lan, and then sync the laptop and the handheld to each other, and so forth..., then it seems like that'd be a win in terms of sync-speed (it's much faster to sync my laptop directly to my desktop the 100T than it is to sync either with the server in the sky, especially if I have to sync one with the sky-server and then the other with the one...; and it's *much* faster to sync the FreeRunner with anything local than over the GPRS link). But I know that tools that are just designed to sync pairwise can be utterly confused/broken by complex sync-topologies (so when I sync my files with Unison, for example, I normally just use a star topology-- and an eager one at that). Also, is it reasonable to start/stop offlineimap in my ifup/ifdown scripts, to have it keep a `running sync' while I'm online? How come systems don't do this by default? ;) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Qi-Hardware Nanonote group purchase?
Posted this at work also, then figured maybe someone on this list would be interested: I'm going to buy one of these to see how well it can replace my now-defunct, Rockbox-running iPod: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Hardware-Ben They're $99, but they ship from Hong Kong so shipping a single unit adds ~$30 to the price; shipping more units together increases the shipping-price but only ~logarithmically, so there's an opportunity to spread the shipping-cost out with a `group buy'; for example, it looks like shipping goes down to $11/unit if I order 5. Anyone interested? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Qi-Hardware Nanonote group purchase?
Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name writes: On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: Posted this at work also, then figured maybe someone on this list would be interested: I'm going to buy one of these to see how well it can replace my now-defunct, Rockbox-running iPod: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Hardware-Ben They're $99, but they ship from Hong Kong so shipping a single unit adds ~$30 to the price; shipping more units together increases the shipping-price but only ~logarithmically, so there's an opportunity to spread the shipping-cost out with a `group buy'; for example, it looks like shipping goes down to $11/unit if I order 5. Anyone interested? Is this the same as the Bennote in the latest Linux Journal? You caught me with my pants down--I have to admit that I don't subscribe to Linux Journal..., though someone's pointed out to me at least one interested article in it every month for the last six months or so. But, yes--it is. Now I'll have to go ask my friend for his LJ, again -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Qi-Hardware Nanonote group purchase?
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Thomas Charron twaf...@gmail.com wrote: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Hardware-Ben Am I right in that this thing cannot run an X server? It presents a framebuffer, so I see no reason why it couldn't except for RAM. I mean as in, you won't find a working X server, not sure it can, just write one yourself. :) RAM may or may not be a problem. It's got 32 MB, which is more than anything Project Athena had at first, but software seems to take up more and more memory as times goes on. Maybe swapping to flash? Maybe. Swapping to flash is often a more realistic option than people expect-- partly because modern flash-disks (with onboard controllers performing wear-levelling) are *way* more resilient than people expect, and partly because the way that swap ends up being used is vastly different from what people expect--most notably, if there are parts of a program's in-memory image that are rarely (or never) used, then those parts can get swapped-out (once) to make room in RAM for disk-buffer/-cache, and then may never be touched again. Of course, it all depends on the program--if Xorg and whatever client applications you want to run actually, *actively* use all of the memory that they allocate all the time, then maybe `swap to flash' (or even `swap' at all) isn't such a great option. One interesting thing to note, though, is that `active' doesn't just mean `the program is running'; even if something is running, if you're not interacting with it, and it's not doing something of its own accord, then there's a good chance that the entire process can safely be swapped out and then not touched until you switch back to it. It looks like a fresh instance of Xorg occupies ~14 MB of RAM on my laptop. Hmm -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Qi-Hardware Nanonote group purchase?
Shawn O'Shea sh...@eth0.net writes: On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: Posted this at work also, then figured maybe someone on this list would be interested: I'm going to buy one of these to see how well it can replace my now-defunct, Rockbox-running iPod: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Hardware-Ben Looks interesting. I'm waiting for the crop of Android-based PMPs coming out from the big names for my next iPod replacement. A few are in the pipe like the two announced at IFA in Germany this week. Samsung Galaxy Player 50 - http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/03/ samsung-galaxy-player-50-hands-on/ Philips GoGear Connect - http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/01/ philips-gogear-connect-hands-on/ Have you seen the Archos Android tablets? There are 2 of them out, right now (first hit the market late last year), also with other models on the way; it looks like Archos is actually behaving as a good member of the FOSS community, too. Radio Shack and Best Buy both carry some selection of them in stores, if you haven't seen them; if you have..., thoughts? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Qi-Hardware Nanonote group purchase?
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name wrote: RAM may or may not be a problem. It's got 32 MB, which is more than anything Project Athena had at first, but software seems to take up more and more memory as times goes on. Maybe swapping to flash? My 1st linux box was a 486 w/ 16MB ram and ran X just fine. I think it could w/ just 8MB. More was better of course. Yah, and these days the kernel takes up more than that. On my desktop here, vmlinux is 2.2 MB, initrd is 8.4 MB, and those are both compressed. X reports a resident size of 40 MB, although how much of that (if any) might actually be video card RAM I dunno. I bet none of it is video-card RAM; a significant (not necessarily majority, but significant) portion of the RAM `used by X', though, is shared libraries that are also used by other processes--and those are basically `gratis' since you'd be using them regardless. You need to pick over it with something like memstat; on my laptop, for example, the top allocations associated with an Xorg process (hosting an xterm) are, as per mstat: 9404k: PID 6649 (/usr/bin/Xorg) 4401k: /usr/lib/dri/i915_dri.so 6649 3364k: /lib/libc-2.7.so 1 1226 2874 2892 2930 3297 3312 3331 3347 3365 3366 3402 3511 3544 3550 3947 3970 4031 4054 4056 4112 4226 4243 4260 4261 4318 4320 4321 4344 4374 4376 4388 4402 4547 4560 4595 4621 4804 4805 4806 4807 4808 4955 5144 5151 5243 6561 6598 6648 6649 6655 6656 6683 2584k: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libpcidata.so 6649 2564k: /lib/libm-2.7.so 3511 3947 3970 4056 4112 4226 4260 4388 4955 6649 2552k: /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6.3.18 4226 6649 6655 2436k: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so 6649 2432k: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/intel_drv.so 6649 2428k: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libxaa.so 6649 2300k: /usr/lib/libXfont.so.1.4.1 4226 6649 2288k: /usr/lib/libdbus-1.so.3.4.0 3365 3366 3511 3970 4226 4243 4260 4261 4318 4320 4321 4344 4388 4402 4547 4560 5144 6649 The leading number is the amount of memory allocated privately by that item, and the trailing numbers after shared libraries are the PIDs of all of the processes using the shlib. Also, bear in mind that much of the memory-allocations associated with *X client* applications are inside the X server process -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Qi-Hardware Nanonote group purchase?
Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name writes: On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Mark Komarinski mkomarin...@wayga.orgwrote: On 09/05/2010 07:52 PM, Tom Buskey wrote: I have 2 systems running recent OpenBSD releases for SSH portals. One is a Sun Sparc with 96 MB ram and the other is a VM with 32 MB allocated to it. I'm not sure I could do that with any major current Linux dist. Maybe Slackware on i386. Open + Net BSD installs seem similar to Slack. I have Debian Lenny running on a Linksys NSLU2 (32MB RAM). And I run Ubuntu on a SmartQ 7 mid, an ARM based tablet w/ 256 MB and X11. And apt-get works. Is there a Debian based dist for the MIPS (?) chip in the Bennote? There are two Debian MIPS ports--big-endian and little-endian: http://www.debian.org/ports/mips/ There are multiple ways of installing the little-endian MIPS build of Debian documented on the Qi Hardware website: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Debian Caveat: http://sdschulze.dnsalias.org/~soeren/content/debian-nanonote-kernel.txt Debian is compiled with FPU support required. Our processor doesn't have any. Luckily, Linux can emulate it in software. Unluckily, this is very slow[...] I guess that might explain why Debian felt a little more sluggish on my FreeRunner than any of the OpenEmbedded-based systems did, too -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Android PMPs (was: Qi-Hardware Nanonote group purchase?)
Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: Shawn O'Shea sh...@eth0.net writes: On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: Posted this at work also, then figured maybe someone on this list would be interested: I'm going to buy one of these to see how well it can replace my now-defunct, Rockbox-running iPod: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Hardware-Ben Looks interesting. I'm waiting for the crop of Android-based PMPs coming out from the big names for my next iPod replacement. A few are in the pipe like the two announced at IFA in Germany this week. Samsung Galaxy Player 50 - http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/03/ samsung-galaxy-player-50-hands-on/ Philips GoGear Connect - http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/01/ philips-gogear-connect-hands-on/ Have you seen the Archos Android tablets? There are 2 of them out, right now (first hit the market late last year), also with other models on the way; it looks like Archos is actually behaving as a good member of the FOSS community, too. And, on that note..., it looks like Archos just added a whole slew of new Android (Froyo) PMPs-etc. devices to their listing, a week ago; to put it concisely: they come in 10.0, 7.0, 4.3, 3.2, and 2.8. There's also now an 8 one with a form more like a `picture-frame' (not to mention the 5 one that was introduced last year). It looks like, out of the new batch, they're currently selling the 3.2 one with the others due to sell next month. (I haven't seen this posted to Slashdot, yet--if anyone here would like the karma, go for it ;)). There's no indication (yet?) whether they're going to support the FOSS developer community on the new devices to the same extent they they support us on the ones from last year--but here's hoping. (Oh, and: is there a better shorthand than PMP? I keep reading android pimps, and it just... doesn't sit right...) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Android PMPs
Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name writes: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: (Oh, and: is there a better shorthand than PMP? I keep reading android pimps, and it just... doesn't sit right...) PIMEED.[1] -- Ben [1] Portable Individual Media Experience Enablement Device. Now available with Genuine People Personalities! Only from Sirius Cybernetics Corporation! MID - Mobile Internet Device. See SmartQ, CrunchTablet, even the Archos devices. PMP is a Portable Music Player. Most MIDs can do music. Seems like the market is big on synecdoche, right now--pick one random capability, and name the device by it. It's like people just can't handle the notion of `portable computer' yet. I remember someone being dumbfounded by the sight of a Nokia tablet, last year, apparently having difficulty with it not being a smartphone. The guy trying to explain it to him seemed just as dumbfounded, struggling to find any kind of straightforward terminology for it-- eventually settling on: It's a computer. It's basically a very tiny laptop. When I went into Radio Shack to buy an Archos 5, last night, the salesguy there said: Nobody *ever* buys that GPS--it's got way too many extra features. D'oh. If the Palm PDAs had WiFi, they'd qualify as MIDs. Turnabout: what does my *netbook* qualify as, if it *doesn't* have Wi-Fi? They may not have had the functionality of today's Android devices, but they got the price point. I'm not sure I'll ever buy a $400 tablet. The smaller ones are more like $100. http://www.archos.com/ says that even the 10.1 one is `less than $300'; but maybe that's what you mean-- `I'm not sure I'll ever even *see* an Android tablet as expensive as $400'? (I don't remember how Palm Pilots were priced, back in the day...) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Android PMPs
David Rysdam da...@rysdam.org writes: An agent or agents purporting to be Tom Buskey said: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: (Oh, and: is there a better shorthand than PMP? I keep reading android pimps, and it just... doesn't sit right...) [...] MID - Mobile Internet Device. See SmartQ, CrunchTablet, even the Archos devices. PMP is a Portable Music Player. Most MIDs can do music. If the Palm PDAs had WiFi, they'd qualify as MIDs. Which kind of proves that's not the right name for the category. Yes. I just call them tiny computers or portable computers. And one day, that will sound as strange as electronic computers does today. Looking back..., I think they were actually called palmtops (or palmtop computers, if you like longhand) when they were first introduced in the late 1980s. Maybe we can try that, again. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Android PMPs
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Lloyd Kvam pyt...@venix.com wrote: We expect to see iPads getting used by patients in hospital settings filling out forms (multiple choice - little or no typing). Earlier attempts with other tablets (running Windows) proved unworkable. I'm curious; what makes the iPad better for that than the 'doze tablet? I would think a form is a form, regardless of platform. Dunno about iPads, but I tried to use one of the Windows touchscreen computers when I was at Best Buy, a couple weeks back--I think it was an HP `TouchSmart'..., and all I can remember about the experience is that it was something that I didn't want to remember. (I've only used an iPad once briefly, in a store. I thought it seemed like a neat toy, but couldn't see myself spending $400 just to play an electronic marble maze game.) Oh, is *that* where Tom's $400 figure came from? I have to admit that I haven't been paying much attention to the iPad-- there are too many things that are actually new or interesting (or both!) on the market, competing for attention ;) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Touch-screens that work with Xorg/Linux? (was: Android PMPs)
Lloyd Kvam pyt...@venix.com writes: On Thu, 2010-09-09 at 09:00 -0400, Tom Buskey wrote: I'm not sure I'll ever buy a $400 tablet. I agree with that sentiment for myself. We have an iPad here on loan to make sure the web sites we support display nicely. The iPad is a great device for those folks who have trouble with regular mouse/keyboard interfaces. On that note (touchscreen computing), I'm looking to build a touchscreen-driven, freestanding jukebox appliance, and the major stumbling-block appears to be figuring out what touchscreen device I should use: there are plenty of touchscreen LCD monitors available on the market, today, and it looks like the `touch' part is basically always (some sort of) a USB device..., but it's never quite clear what *kind* of USB device they are--and whether Linux and Xorg will be able to drive them. It looks like there are something like 5 different types of `USB touchscreen' device that are explicitly supported upstream, and I've found some mention of patches to support other types--and by `types', it looks like I mean OEM components, not branded devices that I can buy as a consumer. Is anyone here familiar with using off-the-shelf touchscreens, and able to make a recommendation as what particular devices are most straight-forward to get working? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
X11 on small systems? (was: Qi-Hardware Nanonote group purchase?)
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:12 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: X reports a resident size of 40 MB, although how much of that (if any) might actually be video card RAM I dunno. I bet none of it is video-card RAM; a significant (not necessarily majority, but significant) portion of the RAM `used by X', though, is shared libraries that are also used by other processes--and those are basically `gratis' since you'd be using them regardless. I'm approaching the limits of my understanding now, but: I note that several of the shared libraries you list are specific to the X server, and thus aren't shared by any other process. Yes, however: several of the libraries that are exclusive to the X server are actually things that would (or could) be eliminated in different use-cases; the 4-MB Intel DRI module, for example, is unnecessary even on my laptop (unless I want accelerated 3-D, which I *almost* never do--even on my laptop); libfreetype could presumably be eliminated if we just used bitmap fonts (which is probably what one wants on a QVGA display, anyway). And, of course: there are plenty more, in the full listing, of all types--ones that are specific to the X server, ones that are specific to other applications (some of them X clients), and ones that are shared between all sorts of processes. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong (at all, let a lone by by slight of hand), just pointing out that there's deeper analysis necessary in order to actually figure out what the top-level memory-usage figures really mean. Though...: I've never used memstat before, but the manual page states that it reports virtual memory. I was looking at the RSS (resident segment size) column of ps. Oh, right--you did say resident, but I managed to miss it I think the whole bit about picking through with memstat is basically irrelevant, in that case, because...: Virtual size can include things which aren't main RAM. I'm going to go a step further, contradicting the prevailing wisdom of the Internet, and say that VSZ can even include that aren't even properly `allocated *virtual* memory'. What I mean is: RSS != (VSZ - (amount of memory paged out to swap)) Skimming grep'ing through Linux 2.6 source that I have on hand, it looks like mmap() contributes to VSZ but never to RSS, which I guess makes sense--and it would explain why, even though I'm *zero bytes* into swap, I still have a huge mismatch between VSZ and RSS for many of my processes. And that mmap business applies to shared libraries, if I recall correctly The only thing that comes to mind about how RSS might be misleading, here, is maybe some `unused regions' that *could* be swapped out (if you had /proc/sys/vm/swappiness cranked up, or had more disk I/O) but aren't. I guess, in general, you have to worry about copy-on-write pages from forks, but that's probably not so relevant here. The bit I mentioned earlier, about how a bunch of the memory that appears to be used by the X server process is actually allocated on behalf of client processes (some applications-- and toolkits--are *much* `worse' about this than others), may be most relevant, depending on whether you were actually running any X clients when you did your measurements. It would appear that memstat breaks out memory-mapped files, but how does it treat things like pages swapped to disk? Oh, it doesn't--at all. If you care about anything other than making sense out of VSZ figures, memstat's basically too dumb to be of service. But I'd say that the VSZ figures are what're most in need of a tool like memstat to explain them, so... :) Though, it *would* be nice to be able to get an idea about how much of that RSS figure was actually due to loading and using particular libraries. I don't know how one could go about doing that. If you just want to know whether Xorg can run on Ben Nanonote, it'd probably be most straight-forward (and maybe even more cost-effective, if your day-job pays hourly ;)) to just... buy one and try it out. :) (I wouldn't expect RSS to include RAM mapped from the video card, but I didn't know that for sure, hence my qualification earlier.) I could be mistaken, but my bet is based on the idea that Xorg just mmaps /dev/mem (and /dev/dri/card0 and stuff like that, too, I guess?) to get at graphics cards' resources. If you go through a full listing fro mmemstat, you'll actually see things like /dev/dri/card0 and /dev/mem as separate maps (in use exclusively by the X server, hopefully). -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: X11 on small systems?
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: Yes, however: several of the libraries that are exclusive to the X server are actually things that would (or could) be eliminated in different use-cases; the 4-MB Intel DRI module, for example, Good point. X.org doesn't necessarily have to be as heavy as it is on a desktop PC. And has been mentioned, there are more lightweight X servers out there. ... assuming that you even need an X server :) Virtual size can include things which aren't main RAM. I'm going to go a step further, contradicting the prevailing wisdom of the Internet, and say that VSZ can even include that aren't even properly `allocated *virtual* memory'. What I mean is: RSS != (VSZ - (amount of memory paged out to swap)) Contrary to popular belief and several OS GUIs, virtual memory does not mean using disk as virtual RAM. That is, virtual memory is *not* synonymous with swap space. Note that top(1), of all things, says: o: VIRT -- Virtual Image (kb) The total amount of virtual memory used by the task. It includes all code, data and shared libraries plus pages that have been swapped out. VIRT = SWAP + RES. p: SWAP -- Swapped size (kb) The swapped out portion of a task’s total virtual memory image. q: RES -- Resident size (kb) The non-swapped physical memory a task has used. Is it any wonder that people are confused? Virtual memory is the address space seen by a process and provided by the MMU. [... excellent description of paging and what virtual memory actually means, elided...] My expectation was that virtual size was the total size of all objects the kernel memory manager had associated with a given process's virtual memory space (not necessarily mapped). That would include all regular memory allocated, plus every mmap'ed file (and thus every shared library). Exactly--thank you for taking the time to paint the picture more vividly :) For X, that might also include video card RAM. It might even include things which have no real representation at all: blackfire$ sudo memstat | grep nvidia0 42560k: PID 3000 (/dev/nvidia0) 3278332k: /dev/nvidia0 3000 blackfire$ That's over 3 GiB. My video card has 256 MiB RAM, main RAM is 1 GiB. So whatever that is, it isn't hardware. [...] But in any event, virtual memory doesn't have any necessary correlation to committed primary or secondary storage (i.e., RAM or disk). Which reminds me: let's not forget /proc/sys/vm/overcommit* :) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: X11 on small systems? (was: Qi-Hardware Nanonote group purchase?)
Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: I'm going to buy one of these to see how well it can replace my now-defunct, Rockbox-running iPod: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Hardware-Ben They're $99, but they ship from Hong Kong so shipping a single unit adds ~$30 to the price; shipping more units together increases the shipping-price but only ~logarithmically, so there's an opportunity to spread the shipping-cost out with a `group buy'; for example, it looks like shipping goes down to $11/unit if I order 5. Anyone interested? [long thread about how likely it is that Xorg can run on Ben Nanonote...] If you just want to know whether Xorg can run on Ben Nanonote, it'd probably be most straight-forward (and maybe even more cost-effective, if your day-job pays hourly ;)) to just... buy one and try it out. :) On that note..., I'm looking to place my order sometime this week; if anyone's actually interested in co-shipping in that timeframe, let me know. I hear that Freedom Included http://www.freedomincluded.com/ is also likely to start selling Nanonotes some time in the next couple/few months, if anyone is interested `but not right now' (maybe you want to wait and see how I make out...). -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
New mobile Linux devices
It looks like Always Innovating just introduced a new revision of the Touchbook, as well as a palmtop tablet: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/smartbook.htm AND..., Yo Dawg, they put a computer inside the computer Too bad I just bought something else. :\ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Dual boot
David accidentally sent this to me instead of the list; bringing it back listward...: David Rose dr...@proviss.com writes: Josh, thanx for the feedback. When I do the steps you suggest, grub (v 0.97) gives me: Possible disks are: hd0 hd1 Based on that, how would I configure my grub conf file? What does it do/say when you try tab-completing on root (hd0, and root (hd1,? You can also actually run through a whole series of commands (all the way to boot) from GRUB's command-line interface-- should be quicker than `edit the grub.conf and see if it works', especially since you can verify things one command at a time. By the way, I currently have a work-around by disabling the primary drive in the BIOS, but that's hokey. I'd still like to get this working for convenience and my edification. That actually sounds like exactly the sort of thing I was talking about, as having potential to mess-up GRUB's notion of which drives have which number On 10/13/2010 11:10 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: John Abreauj...@blu.org writes: On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 5:58 PM, David Rosedr...@proviss.com wrote: I ran the fdisk -l sdb and it told me that there was an NTFS file system with the correct amount of space so it appears that it recognizes the drive. I tried (hd1,1) and it gives me an Error 22: No such partition. Grub's (hd1,1) corresponds to /dev/sdb2. Is the NTFS filesystem on /dev/sdb2? If it's actually on /dev/sdb1, then the grub equivalent would be (hd1,0) I don't think that's exactly true: if I recall correctly, GRUB (version 0.x) just counts the drives starting from zero, regardless of which controller or channel the drives are attached to. If Linux is calling it `sdb' because it's attached to the second controller, but there's no `sda' actually attached (or powered-on), then `sdb' in Linux may well be `hd0' in GRUB. Also, partition-numbers start at 1 only in GRUB 0.x (now called GRUB Legacy); in `GRUB 2' (version 1.x, which used to be called PUPA), partition-numbers start at *zero*. I didn't see it specified what version of GRUB is in use, though I guess it's GRUB 0.x (Legacy) from the `grub.conf' syntax used. And, David: are you just doing this by `brute force', rebooting every time to see if a change is viable? Or have you tried tab-completion in GRUB's command-shell? From the manual: To help you find out which number specifies a partition you want, the GRUB command-line (*note Command-line interface::) options have argument completion. This means that, for example, you only need to type root ( followed by aTAB, and GRUB will display the list of drives, partitions, or file names. So it should be quite easy to determine the name of your target partition, even with minimal knowledge of the syntax. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Dual boot
David Rose prov...@gmail.com writes: GNU GRUB version 0.97 (640K lower / 3072K upper memory) [ Minimal BASH-like line editing is supported. For the first word, TAB lists possible command completions. Anywhere else TAB lists the possible completions of a device/filename.] grub root (hd Possible disks are: hd0 hd1 grub root (hd0,0) Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7 grub root (hd1, Possible partitions are: Partition num: 0, Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83 Partition num: 1, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x8e grub root (hd1,0) Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83 OK, so GRUB says that your NTFS partition is (hd0,0) and that your Linux partition is (hd1,0); so now that we've done a sanity-check, I gather (never done it myself...) that you should be able to run through this sequence of commands to boot Windows (NOTE: don't change the drive- configuration--it'll cause the numbers the change): rootnoverify (hd0,0) makeactive chainloader +1 boot I'd try that on GRUB's command-shell, so that you can verify that each step is working--if you can't run through the whole series and end up booting the OS, at what point does something fail? Now, I note that this `Windows on (hd0,0) and Linux on (hd1,0)' is exactly the opposite of what you had in your first message, where you wrote: Initially, I had Windows as the first drive and tried to have the choice using boot.ini. I have since switched the drives[...] Have you since switched them back? Is that how the Windows disk became #0? Or is your computer doing something weird and, I don't know... randomising them at boot? And if the Windows disk is `the first one' (and I'm not entirely sure what that means with SATA + your BIOS...), how is it that you're booting into GRUB? Is GRUB installed into the boot-record on the Windows drive, or do you have the BIOS set up to `boot from the second drive', or...? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Boston Linux Meeting Wednesday, October 20, 2010 Hardware Hacking: Atomic Clock Building
Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net writes: On 10/14/2010 8:34 PM, John Abreau wrote: On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote: Federico builds an atomic clock out of a pocket-sized Sheevaplug device [...] Given that the event is still in the future (Oct 20), I don't think anyone went to it yet. :-[ OK, I jumped the gun :) I guess I'm relly ahead of everyone on this! That being said, are there any good primary sources that are affordable? This guy may know: http://leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: X failure after upgrade to Meerkat (Ubuntu 10.10)
Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net writes: On 10/17/2010 11:07 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: Bruce Labittbruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net writes: So how does one start the X configuration again? IIRC, there used to be routines like xf86config, etc that could be used to reconfig X. All I need to is to get the screen going again at some half decent resolution. Eventually, it would be nice to have something like 1600x1080 or so. Isn't /etc/X11/xorg.conf supposed to be basically empty on Ubuntu, these days, with everything autoconfigured? Just ensure that you have an applicable driver installed and it should work? Old, in computer terms, is yesterday! This card is OLD in the sense it only has 64M. So probably 5 YO. There really isn't anything in the xorg.conf file. 20-30 lines, mostly blank. Not like say 5 years ago, when there was tons of stuff there. What is nouveau? OK, found that. This is an experimental driver... And the driver from NVidia isn't? ;) Of course, experimental, in FOSS terms, often means something more like the API will probably change But, actually, there's another nvidia driver in Xorg called nv, which may have actually been what I was thinking of; the package for that would be xserver-xorg-video-nv. If you have to spare space, you can also install xserver-xorg-video-all, which will pull in *all* of the drivers and then you shouldn't need to worry about whether you have the one you need My question, this is supposed to be an upgrade - not a new install. So why didn't 'THEY' look at what was installed already, and use something that would actually work. I'm really surprised that this happened. I thought X problems were so yesterday, like GPF or BSOD... Kind of disappointed, that's all. Doesn't help get the distro more mainstream, IMHO. I'm gonna avoid going there--a lot of people wouldn't like what I'd have to say ;) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: DNS resolution issue.
Ken D'Ambrosio k...@jots.org writes: Don't forget, also, that host gildor.foo.local and host gildor both came back, ASAP, with valid responses. (Sidenote: I wonder if host bypasses nsswitch.conf entirely, and just checks DNS-specific files, such as resolv.conf. Updated: I guess so. I modified /etc/hosts to resolve gildor to 127.0.0.1. That's where ping, then, looks, as per nsswitch.conf, but host still goes to the DNS-resolvable IP. Which would explain the delay bit in the Ubuntu tech note, below.) Yes--host is specifically a DNS tool, just like nslookup. Also like nslookup, it's part of the BIND suite. From the manpage: NAME host - DNS lookup utility [...] DESCRIPTION host is a simple utility for performing DNS lookups. :^) If you want to do general queries using nsswitch, you can use the getent command, e.g.: getent hosts gildor.foo.local getent hosts gildor getent hosts gildor.local (note that the hosts is literal--getent is more generic than just hostname-lookups, so you need to specify which `database' to query; e.g.: hosts, passwd, group, shadow, aliases, ethers, protocols...). -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: X failure after upgrade to Meerkat (Ubuntu 10.10)
Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net writes: On 10/18/2010 12:43 PM, Benjamin Scott wrote: Something that hasn't been mentioned explicitly is that NVidia periodically retires support for older cards. When that happens, you have to go to their legacy driver, which doesn't receive enhancements. I'd guess they may also retire support for really old cards entirely. Any video suppliers that don't do this? Or, to quote you, they all s*ck? Well, ATI/AMD Intel have both FOSS'd their drivers so that the community can decide to pick them up and maintain them, if need be, for as long as there's interest--possibly forever. The viability of a company both keeping their drivers closed and maintaining them (themselves) *forever* seems dubious. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Recommended rsync tutorials?
Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name writes: On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.netwrote: I'm looking to use rsync on a cron job to do some 'backup'. I've read man rsync and a few 'tutorials'. It looks not too hard - this worries me. :) Anyone have a good/favorite tutorial on rsync that talks about how to do this over ssh and avoids common pitfalls? (like unmounted nfs...) lmgtfy, would not be too helpful. Done that, checked out a few of them, looking for something relatively understandable... Try it manually 1st. Put it into a script that you call in cron. You can setup ssh keys so you don't have passwords. Usually it's rsync -av source dest:dest-dir If you delete files on the source and want them deleted on the dest, use --delete And don't forget --dry-run to see what you're going to do before you do it, and --one-file-system to skip over (active) mountpoints. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Recommended rsync tutorials?
bruce.lab...@autoliv.com writes: gnhlug-discuss-boun...@mail.gnhlug.org wrote on 10/19/2010 10:17:56 AM: Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name writes: On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.netwrote: I'm looking to use rsync on a cron job to do some 'backup'. I've read man rsync and a few 'tutorials'. It looks not too hard - this worries me. :) [...] And don't forget --dry-run to see what you're going to do before you do it, and --one-file-system to skip over (active) mountpoints. Thanks for the tip on --dry-run. I don't understand --one-file-system, what does that do? From the manual: -x, --one-file-system This tells rsync to avoid crossing a filesystem boundary when recursing. This does not limit the user’s ability to specify items to copy from multiple filesystems, just rsync’s recursion through the hierarchy of each directory that the user specified, and also the analogous recursion on the receiving side during deletion. Also keep in mind that rsync treats a bind mount to the same device as being on the same filesystem. So, it tells rsync to *not go into* directories where another filesystem is mounted. If, for example, you do: rsync --archive / /var/spool/backup/ ... then rsync will try to copy *everything* into /var/spool/backup: including everything under /sys, /proc, /dev/shm, /dev/pts, any NFS or other network mounts, *and also* /var/spool/backup (in which case it'll try to copy /var/spool/backup to /var/spool/backup/var/spool/backup...). If, on the other hand, you do: rsync --archive --one-file-system / /var/spool/backup/ ... then rsync will just skip over all of those mountpoints. The find command has an equivalent switch (-mount or -xdev), if you just want to watch directory-traversal happen with/without mountpoints being skipped, e.g.: find / -xdev vs. find /. Oh, ALSO...: note that it *matters* to rsync whether you include a trailing slash when writing the paths to your directories. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: X failure after upgrade to Meerkat (Ubuntu 10.10)
Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net writes: On 10/19/2010 8:02 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: Did you try xserver-xorg-video-nv? If neither that nor nouveau works, and if your `old' machine is old enough to still have PCI slots be acceptible for a graphics card, I could probably give you a 3dfx card that would still work I haven't actually used it myself in a couple of years (which is like forever, in terms of Ubuntu releases), but the driver appears to sill be live: http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/xserver-xorg-video-tdfx I also have an ATI Radeon 9250 (also PCI) which I'm pretty sure is still supported (by the FOSS drivers--dunno about the proprietary ones, I never found a reason to try them), and which I might be willing to part with, though I've been considering using it myself as a replacement for an old inbuilt card that seems to be acting up Sorry for this obvious question. How does one change the active driver? Just edit xorg.conf and put in nv? What if there isn't an active xorg.conf? I renamed it so it would not be used. (What DOES X use if there is no xorg.conf?) Well, the first step would be ensuring that the xserver-xorg-video-nv package is actually installed--if everything's working right, and I guess if you don't also have some other driver that claims to support the card, presumably nv should just be used automatically? My own xorg.conf files, for all of the machines that I have on-hand right now are gargantuan and byzantine by today's standards (`... because my needs are big [and complicated]'); I'm not sure, off the top of my head, how to cut it down to something minimalistic Does nv support the GeForce 2 MX/MX400? That video card is listed by Nvidia now as legacy. I'm not sure what MX400 means, but the manpage mentions GeForce2 MX: http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/X11R7.0/doc/html/nv.4.html Looks like there are a few open bugs in Ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nv/+bugs ... but it's gotta be worth a try if you've got nothing now, right? ;) I may take you up on the video card offer. Naturally I need to flail and froth about a bit before I give up! Wouldn't be right without a little suffrin' I'll go dig around to make sure that I really do still have that 3dfx card... :) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Backup systems?
Cole Tuininga co...@code-energy.com writes: On 10/20/2010 01:31 PM, Tyson Sawyer wrote: I've been using backup-pc with good results. I started making my own rsync scripts and decided that I had better things to do and backup-pc had already done a better job than I ever would. Seconded. I've been using rsnapshot for backups for quite some time, but backuppc (once set up) has a lot more options to simplify restoration, etc. I've been working on switching over to it myself. I've been thinking of moving to rsnapshot myself (from my own mostly-equivalent script), but now I see that, according to Debian's statistics, it looks like rdiff-backup is about twice as popular: http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=rdiff-backup http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=rsnapshot Is there a reason for that? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Don't get caught up in the hype - the Zen of The Unix Philosophy
David Rysdam da...@rysdam.org writes: An agent or agents purporting to be Greg Rundlett (freephile) said: I liked this post which in summary is a reminder of the Unix Philosophy http://teddziuba.com/2010/10/taco-bell-programming.html ~95% of my coworkers would benefit from reading this essay. [...] (That said, I don't think xargs can launch processes on a remote machine, although maybe ./process can.) s/xargs/parallel/ = http://www.gnu.org/software/parallel/ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Representative Seth Cohn
Seth Cohn sethc...@gnuhampshire.org writes: On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Bill McGonigle b...@bfccomputing.com wrote: The first time I met Seth was in early 2006 at a House Committee Hearing. They were considering a bill to encourage the State IT organization to consider Open Source software before buying commercial solutions and a small contingent of GNHLUG'ers showed up to offer their support. [...] With the budget hole as large as it is, things like open source (ie 'free' software) might find the needed support, with the promise of saving both now and longer term. Since FOSS solutions are also more supportable by local engineers (both in terms of `tech support', and actual software maintenance), I wonder if people might also appreciate the quicker turn-around for issue-resolution, as well as the the `creating local jobs for engineers in NH' angle, these days. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: BarCamp Manchester 2010 on Saturday, November 20th
kenta kenta.k...@gmail.com writes: In lieu of a ManchLUG meeting this month I recommend attending BarCamp Manchester on November 20th. Hope to see some of the ManchLUG regulars there. While I'm not a ManchLUG regular yet, I plan on showing up for BarCamp-- it sounds awesome. Maybe I'll even be able to give an interesting presentation. Not sure I'll be able to stay through to 16:00, though. Out of curiosity, any idea as to which hours should be expected to be the most exciting? Do things usually take an hour or two to really get rolling? And do they tend to peter out before 16:00, or keep going strong and roll over into an after-party? Details from original post: On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:58 PM, kenta kenta.k...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone else planning on attending BarCamp Manchester this year on November 20th? For those unfamiliar, this is an un-conference geared toward technical topics such as: Programming frameworks, techniques, languages (C++/.net/python/ruby), web technologies (PHP, Drupal, Wordpress, HTML5), mobile technologies, networking, security, and electronics. The sessions presented that day are dependent on the attendees. As an attendee there is no obligation to be a presenter, but if you're looking to share something of interest all you have to do is write it up as a session at the beginning of the day, find a time slot and you're now a presenter. I'm thinking of not having a ManchLUG meet for November and recommending that we form an impromptu ManchLUG meeting at BarCamp if there is enough interest. Any takers? Further info and sign-up page for the event (it's free) is at: http://www.barcampmanchester.org -Kenta ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Novell agrees to be acquired by Attachmate.
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Kevin D. Clark kevin_d_cl...@comcast.net wrote: I barely trust people to drive in two dimensions, let alone three! My commute takes me a little while, so I have to drive in four. You may travel in four, but your direction and rate of movement along one dimension is fixed. You're not driving for that; you're just along for the ride. And you have limited influence over another dimension. So *driving*, it is more like 2.5 dimensions. Like the original Doom! No respawn or save games, though. Bummer. Yeah, jeez--I recently took a 4k-mile road-trip with my family, and about .7k miles in..., someone slammed into my (parked) car. I really wished I'd had some sort of revision-control, there-- it would have been great to just revert that whole `parking' series and re-do it with my car parked one more space to the right. Though, to be fair..., one *does* at least get some amount of control over *how fast* one moves forward through time (e.g.: the pot of coffee that I just brewed for my wife...). Coincidentally, I just caught the last half-hour of `The Exchange' on NHPR, where Laura Knoy was doing a call-in+interview with Howard Mansfield about his book... on time: http://www.nhpr.org/howard-mansfield-time-and-place There were, at least, a few interesting remarks from Mansfield in the last few minutes--something about the Amish having chosen to maintain control over `the clock' and choosing which technologies to accept or reject as a means to that end. I'm considering becoming techno-Amish (keeping my computers... and my flying car...). -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux has won
Ken D'Ambrosio k...@jots.org writes: On Wed, December 15, 2010 10:24 am, Benjamin Scott wrote: So, while I've been slaving away in the world of corporate IT, it appears Linux has quietly won the OS war. I just didn't notice. Linux may already be out-shipping Microsoft Windows. Oh, indeed. In the embedded market, Linux is there, and then some. Indeed, I'm toying with the idea of installing the third-party Linux distro for my Samsung, so I could browse SMB and NFS shares. *wonders if his microwave is Linux-based* Maybe not, but Electrolux *does* have a *fridge* that's Linux-based: http://www.enlightenment.org/?p=news/showl=ennews_id=26 A few years ago, I was at the movie-theatre down in Lowell, with a friend who had a thing for photo-booths, when I discovered that the photo-booth there was running Red Hat Linux. `Embedded Linux' was already pretty pervasive, even at that point-- having worked its way into a lot of types of devices that people don't even expect to be `digital' inside, let alone be `computers' (e.g.: photo-booths, A/V amplifiers and stereo equipment, batteries, telephones [before Android], the telephone *network*...). Now it's toys for small children, refrigerators, televisions, e-Books, motorcycles, guitars, personal audio-players, video games As Mark Weiser wrote in `The computer for the 21st Century' http://www.ubiq.com/hypertext/weiser/SciAmDraft3.html: The most profound technologies are those that disappear. They weave themselves into the fabric of everyday life until they are indistinguishable from it. They're the things that happen without anyone noticing that they happened-- change that become visible only in retrospective. And it's by design, actually. Part of what's going on here is that more and more `mundane' objects are advancing technologically and becoming `smart'; and, when they do, they use Linux--because Linux is the thing that's making that advance possible in the first place. Develop your own thing from scratch? Pay to license something more obscure, and get a smaller talent-pool? Linux is a commodity. You're not supposed to notice when it gets used, just like you're not supposed to notice when 5-volt circuits (with connectors made by what manufacturer?) get used. At least, that's my perspective from the inside--that's why *my* groups have been shipping Linux for the past decade :) The amazing thing is that Linux-uptake just seems to *keep accelerating* -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux has won
Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: Ken D'Ambrosio k...@jots.org writes: On Wed, December 15, 2010 10:24 am, Benjamin Scott wrote: So, while I've been slaving away in the world of corporate IT, it appears Linux has quietly won the OS war. I just didn't notice. Linux may already be out-shipping Microsoft Windows. Oh, indeed. In the embedded market, Linux is there, and then some. Indeed, I'm toying with the idea of installing the third-party Linux distro for my Samsung, so I could browse SMB and NFS shares. *wonders if his microwave is Linux-based* Maybe not, but [...] And..., Ben's GMail account just sent me a bounce-message about how it thought that message was spam. Anyone have any idea what's up with that? I heard that SORBs just started blocking the subnets used by the company hosting my mail-server as part of November 2010 DUHL expansion, and so some ISPs' customers can't receive e-mail from people using that hosting service. I thought GMail was supposed to be smarter than that, though. Maybe it was the list of suprisingly-related different types of devices that all run Linux--`too many words not previously known to be related to each other, you're either insightful or a spammer'? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: New Year's Cleaning
Ryan Stanyan ryan.stan...@gmail.com writes: On Saturday, January 01, 2011 12:06:20 pm Tom Buskey wrote: Both systems have CD and hard drives They booted up last time I used them. I don't remember the passwords. Knowing security on IRIX you don't have to worry about that :P You think you're being funny, but this sitution's now so common (and accepted) that there's a single-word, stigma-free term for it: whoever take's Tom's SGI is just going to have to jailbreak it. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [Fwd: Re: An Xmas present for you to peruse, comment, and mull..]
Jon 'maddog' Hall mad...@li.org writes: I will not comment on most of your discussion, since I think you and I agree that some of the words in Seth's document will be hard to prove as written, and perhaps should be modified so the opponents of the bill will not have statements to challenge. Indeed. If you want to make adherence to open, platform-neutral standards as part of your definition of Open Source in 21-R:10 then this part is fine. Only if it's also part of the definition of Proprietary It's not obvious to me that an Open-Source implementation of some weird `standard' that's only supported by that one (open) implementation is inherently *any worse* than a proprietary implementation of some weird `standard' that's only supported by that one (closed) implementation. Here we are making a definition of what is open. We do not have to necessarily address what is proprietary. If you want to further define what is standard, that is fine too. Right, what I mean here is: maybe a clause about standards-compliance should be part of a *general* `fitness' rule for software-`acquisition', but that's a separate issue from software-licensing. It doesn't make sense to put *additional* fitness-requirements for OSS acquisition/deployment *beyond* the restrictions that are placed on acquisition and deployment of proprietary packages. That'd accomplish the *opposite* of what we want. In forming our definition of open, maybe we should revisit: The Open Source Definition http://opensource.org/docs/osd The Free Software Definition http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html the Debian Free Software Guidelines http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines Don't define yourself into a corner by using a peculiar definition of OSS that may well block-out a significant portion of the actual OSS `free market' for which you're trying to make explicit inroads, when the proprietary market has no equivalent fitness-constraints. If we want to add appeal by talking about *tendencies* and *likelihoods* that OSS packages will conform to open conform to desirable standards, or the *capabilities* of OSS packages to be *made* to conform as part of the Integration process (even if they didn't `out of the box'!), we can do that without over-restraining the definition such that `OSS COTS that doesn't support a standard out-of-the-box doesn't count, and can still be excluded from consideration even though proprietary COTS that also doesn't support the standard is fine and can't be excluded'. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Ubuntu... downgrade? (64-bit - 32-bit)
Ryan Stanyan ryan.stan...@gmail.com writes: As far as I know you can't downgrade a 64-bit installation to a 32-bit one. I am not the most current in terms of Ubuntu knowledge but the closest I came to this was reinstalling all my media codecs in their 32-bit form What Ryan said--there's an `ia32-libs' package (and some other, related `ia32' packages) that can be installed on 64-bit systems to facilitate things like that. On Jan 25, 2011 10:00 PM, Ken Dapos;Ambrosio k...@jots.org wrote: Hey, all. I've got a big ol' RAID box that I use to store... well, pretty much everything. Threw 64-bit Ubuntu on it, 'cause, well, why not? I now know why not. I'm afraid I've fallen into the portable device rage, e.g., my Droid-X. Nifty thing, it is -- even set it up with VPN, SIP through my job, and all sorts of other fun stuff. Now I'd like to play video from my server on the phone. Unfortunately, its media player is pretty useless -- far better to generate video from the server, and stream it, apparently. But! 64-bit CODECs are also kinda lousy. And it's not like I have a oodles of RAM -- 2 GB -- so dropping to a 32-bit system won't really harm anything. But Googling that doesn't really help much. Any suggestions? What I'd *love* to do is an apt-get update;apt-get dist-upgrade, and be done with it. Somehow, though, I'm thinking it won't be that simple. I'd really like to avoid a full re-install -- a lot of configuration has gone into this silly thing, and, while I could backup /etc and pray that was enough, I'd prefer not to find out the hard way. Thanks for any suggestions, -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: APT/dpkg system within a system
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: apt-get -c /usr/unstable/etc/apt/apt.conf update WARNING! Be warned that it would appear APT does not pass it's root directory setting on to dpkg. Attempting to run an install with the above will cause APT to use package sources and dependency information from /usr/unstable/, but then invoke dpkg with the config normally used for the system. As a result, my system is now running some extremely borken combination of packages from lenny and sid. I see a reinstall in my near future. Depending on how many packages you pulled in from sid, you may actually be able to just downgrade them by specifying, e.g.: apt-get install $pkgname/lenny -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: rc script running twice ???
Drew Van Zandt drew.vanza...@gmail.com writes: Debian Linux (embedded), I'm in runlevel 2, and I'm seeing this when I run ps aux: root 496 0.0 1.9 2808 1232 ttyS0 S+ 00:00 0:00 /bin/sh /etc/ rc2.d/S40init_xuarts start root 498 0.0 0.8 2808 504 ttyS0 S+ 00:00 0:00 /bin/sh /etc/ rc2.d/S40init_xuarts start S40init_xuarts is a script of mine that I just put in /etc/init.d/ and linked from rc2.d. Why is it running twice? Can you do this again, but with ps faux instead--to capture the process-hierarchy? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Force apt-get to ignore dependencies?
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: Hey list, I've recently reinstalled Debian 5.0 lenny on my PC (after a unfortunate accident involving a package manager, a liquid lunch, and a pair of rubber bands). However, in the meantime, Debian has released squeeze as stable. In the progress of updating for that, debian-multimedia.org broke their oldstable archive (corresponding to lenny right now) and have taken it offline, so only their stable archive (corresponding to squeeze) is available. d-m.org was where I was getting my Adobe Flash package from. [...] Anyone got a clue they can spare? What's wrong with the `flashplugin-nonfree' package that Debian has in lenny-backports? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Force apt-get to ignore dependencies?
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: What's wrong with the `flashplugin-nonfree' package that Debian has in lenny-backports? On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: They conveniently kept a current release packaged in a real Debian package, not the download-an-executable-installer-for-you package one gets elsewhere. OK, but why is that a problem? You didn't say, so my question remains unanswered. I don't even understand how/why the word conveniently is supposed to apply, here--how do you, as an end user, even see any difference? And maybe I'm parsing download-an-executable-installer-for-you package wrong, or maybe you've parsed something wrong--are you objecting to the Debian package containing an exectuable postinst script (which is normal for Debian packages), or do you think that the postinst script is downloading an executable installer and then running that (it's not)? Or is it something else? And, regardless--whatever you think the issue is--why is it an issue? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Force apt-get to ignore dependencies?
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Alan Johnson a...@datdec.com wrote: If you don't want to fish through the repos, you will likely find it in /var/cache/apt/archives/ Alas, no. apt-get won't even download the package because it thinks there are unsolved dependencies. You can download a single package-file, by package-name, with aptitude download. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Force apt-get to ignore dependencies?
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: I don't even understand how/why the word conveniently is supposed to apply, here--how do you, as an end user, even see any difference? The Debian package downloads and runs an executable installer. d-m.org offered a proper packaging of the installed files. I'd go for that, but... is that even *legal*? In the USA? [...] or do you think that the postinst script is downloading an executable installer and then running that (it's not)? Except that it is. Read the package description. Go check the source, if you don't believe me. I did check the source, which is *why* I don't belive you ;) The postinst script just invokes the `update-flashplugin-nonfree' command that is shipped as part of the Debian package (/usr/sbin/update-flashplugin-nonfree), not downloaded on-demand. `update-flashplugin-nonfree' is a shell script that downloads: * a list of checksums from Debian * a PGP signature for the checksum-list (signed by the Debian dev.) * a tarball containing the plugin `.so' file from Adobe It verifies the PGP signature using the public key that was shipped in the Debian package (not downloaded dynamically), then it verifies the checksum on the Adobe tarball, then it extracts the .so from the tarball and verifies the checksum for *that*, then it moves the .so into the target directory, sets ownership and permissions, invokes the `update-alternatives' command to register the Adobe plugin with Debian's `alternatives' system. http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/flashplugin-nonfree I actually don't see anything about running a downloaded installer-app in the description, there, either--what am I missing? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Force apt-get to ignore dependencies?
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: The Debian package downloads and runs an executable installer. d-m.org offered a proper packaging of the installed files. I'd go for that, but... is that even *legal*? In the USA? IANAL, but I believe that's an open question. It prolly doesn't comply with the license document, but license documents do not have the force of law (much to the dislike of software publishers everywhere). I haven't agreed to the terms of the license. Well, it's a license, not a contract. So it..., er, `grants you license' to do things--like distribute. Of course, you're not the one distributing, so whatever. I was looking at it more from the perspective of the people who *are* or *would be* distributing--namely d-m and Debian, respectively. I asked, In the USA?, because debian-multimedia.org is registered to someone in France, and Debian no longer has their non-us section to work around bugs/misfeatures in the US legal system. I'm just thinking, it makes sense to me that Debian does it the way that they do (it's expensive enough just to get sued even if you're going to end up winning, and I don't anything to indicate that they would), and I'm surprised to see d-m doing it their (his?) way. Hopefully d-m doesn't get `ICEd' at some point: http://mimiandeunice.com/2010/11/28/authoritarian-update/ As far as copyright goes, similar things have been considered fair use by US courts in the past. It would have to go to court to decide, If you mean from your perspective as a user, I think I get what you mean (DJB was really big on that, as I recall--which was *one of* the reasons that it was such a PITA to use his software...). ... it extracts the .so from the tarball ... Okay, so it's ripping the files from Adobe's executable installer kit, rather than running same. It's really just downloading and unpacking a tarball, and the only file in the tarball is libflashplayer.so, so I'm not sure what there is to `run'. But...: All my individually enumerated complaints still apply in full. Yeah--I get your issue, now: which isn't so much an issue with how it's packaged or the trustworthiness of the source so much as that Debian's just not pushing out regular upgrades whenever upstream does (which actually seems to fit with their policies...). And while aptitude download flashplugin-nonfree (or whatever d-m calls it) will get you the package-file and allow you to install it with `dpkg --force-depends', it seems like you're right: you won't be able to have it just get upgraded automatically until d-m fixes their archive, and you're hosed in the interim. The only work-around I know to suggest is to just install the package from lenny-backports and regularly update it by running update-flashplugin-nonfree --install, maybe in a cron job or something (if there's a new version, it'll get it; if there isn't, it should be a no-op); there may be some sort of hook in APT that you can use to make it run that command for you at the end of every upgrade or dist-upgrade cycle, but I don't know. Personally, I decided to follow your advice on handling people who don't want you to work with them. Of coure, it helped that, in this particular case, the thing never really provided me with anything I needed, so I had only the problems to be rid of :) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Managing installs of Adobe Flash on Debian (was: Force apt-get to ignore dependencies?)
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: Hmm again. Okay, so I've just found something which makes me even less thrilled with Debian's approach (although this may be a new thing Adobe is doing so not really Debian's fault). Anyway, today at least, Adobe provides a .deb package: http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/install_flash_player_10_linux.deb Seems to install fine. I'll test it when I get back to my X console at home. :) But there you've still got the `doesn't automatically update via APT' situation, don't you (in which case, you might still be better off with the `lenny-backports' thing)? Or does Adobe actually have an APT archive, somewhere? I see that they have an apt: URL in use `for Ubuntu 9.04+', which presumably finds it in Ubuntu's stock archive (but no package by that name is visible at packages.ubuntu.com; maybe that's intentional...). And I'm inclined to go, `wait--isn't Ubuntu 9.04 2 years behind at this point?', but I guess that'd just-about equate to the Debian release that just came out, huh? ;) (and it looks like your .deb is supposed to be `for Ubuntu 8.04+'; maybe that means `works with the Debian released in 2009', maybe not). -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Managing installs of Adobe Flash on Debian
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:47 AM, Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: I see that they have an apt: URL in use `for Ubuntu 9.04+' ... Where's this you see that? :) Ah, found it. If one uses the Get Flash web page, APT shows up in the Versions drop down list. And then it produces this URL for the download: apt:adobe-flashplugin?channel=$distro-partner Reading elsewhere, it would appear Canonical is hosting a repository for Adobe. But Adobe appears to be hosting their own YUM repository. Humph. If you find some indicator of where this `adobe-flashplugin' thing is actually hosted..., then you could try adding Canonical's repository to your sources.list, setting APT::Default-Release in /etc/apt.conf such that Debian's archive is preferred by default, and specifically `pinning' the `adobe-flashplugin' package to Canonical's archive. That should actually get you exactly what you want--assuming that the package is actually compatible, and assuming that Canonical/Adobe does actually do ship timely updates for that package. Actually, since the package-name is different in Canonical's archive than it is in Debian's, you could probably forgo any explicit pinning. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Holy War(!): APT vs. RPM (was: Force apt-get to ignore dependencies?)
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Tom Buskey t...@buskey.name wrote: It's nice/sad to see Debian getting the symptoms of RPM hell that people always bring up. Debian -- or rather, dpkg/APT -- has always had the exact same behavior as RPM/YUM, it's just Debian bigots (who crawl out of the woodwork whenever package management is mentioned) were too blinded by zealotry to understand them. I know this isn't what you're addressing here (and, for what it's worth, I basically agree with you on the point you're making), but there /are/ actually some fairly deep differences in what RPM and dpkg do: they chose very different answers for all sorts of `system policy'-type questions like `do we use a binary database and provide a toolset that should meet the admin needs, or do we store everything in text-files that can be handled by existing text-manipulation tools' and `during upgrade, do we uninstall the old version *before* overwriting it with the new version, or *afterward*'. There are corners where people care about things like that at least quasi-legitimately, similarly to how/why they might care about other system-policy issues. Not that it really affects the `One True Way' arguments Both RPM and dpkg properly warn you if unmet dependencies exist. Both communities developed tools to solve dependencies for you. Debian came up with APT and put it into their distribution from an early age, which was a big win for Debian. Kudos to them for that. RPM derived systems had several different tools for a long time, which meant the command(s) to use varied by distro and release. You might use autorpm, rpmfind, up2date, etc. It wasn't until much later that everyone standardized on YUM. Additionally: There have been (or were) more people building third-party RPMs for a long time. Debian has long had the most native packages in their repository. Debian has a very slow release cycle, so Debian people are more likely to be running similar systems. Thus, Debian users were less likely to encounter a third-party package that had incompatible dependencies. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Distributed bug-tracking systems?
I switched over to the new-fangled distributed version control, a couple years ago, and have been utterly delighted. More recently, I came upon the idea of applying the same technology to *bug-tracking*; a few systems being: Bugs Everywhere http://bugseverywhere.org/ Simple Defects http://syncwith.us/ ditz http://ditz.rubyforge.org/ The idea of distributed bug-tracking--being able to go offline and still be able to file bug-reports and -resolutions without having to switch over to a different mode of operation (like `write it down in my notebook and remember transcribe it all into the BTS when I'm online again)--sounds pretty awesome. The idea of bundling the code's bug-state into the DVCS with the code itself--and not having to manually keep track of which branch contains which bugs/fixes--also sounds pretty awesome. I'm aware, of course, of various theoretical limitations in the whole idea (doing things like automatically passing bug-status across merges), but there are lots of things that are practicable regardless of theoretical issues (in theory, CVS never should have worked--but, in practice, it's been used to great success by zillions of developers for decades). So, I'm wondering: does anyone here have any experience doing distrubuted bug-tracking with tools BE, SD, ditz, or anything similar? How does it work? How do they compare? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Plug Computers for whole-home audio (was: [GNHLUG] REMINDER: ManchLUG: Tuesday April 19th @ Wings Your Way - Manchester NH)
kenta kenta.k...@gmail.com writes: A little bump for tomorrow night! UPDATE: Marc Nozell will bringing his new DreamPlug as well to show off in slot #3. Hm. I've really gotta find a way to start attending these things I've been considering getting one (or four...) plug computers to deploy as part of a PulseAudio- and MPD-based whole-home audio system, where I've currently deployed scavenged full-scale (and full-volume...) PCs as a proof of concept. My original plug-computer thought was that I'd buy some USB audio-adapters to use with them, and then I heard about the DreamPlug coming out with integrated audio. So, maybe that's an option--the big question to which I can't find an answer is: How's the audio quality on the DreamPlug? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Plug Computers for whole-home audio
Marc Nozell (m...@nozell.com) noz...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Ken D'Ambrosio k...@jots.org wrote: Actually, a confluence of events has me playing with my Sheeva today. By sheer circumstance, I - Need to replace my bedroom computer with something quiet - Bought a 10-port powered USB hub - Acquired, gratis, a USB-to-VGA converter - Saw a video of someone running Gnome off of a Sheeva plug. It seemed like the perfect setup for my Sheeva to step in. Unfortunately, for one, as of 9.10(?), Ubuntu no longer supports the Sheeva; they compile for a higher CPU than the Sheeva has. Then, my 16 GB SD card gave up the ghost. So I'm installing Debian on a newly acquired card; what with only 512 MB of RAM, I don't anticipate that I'll be making huge inroads into graphical editing or anything, but assuming I get it working as a workstation, it'll just be DamnCool(tm). pro-tip: to save your SD card from excessive writes, look at flashybrid. It works well for me. Actually...: Your SD card is almost certainly already doing wear-levelling internally, and can (barring it `just being a bad card', which happens) be expected to last for *years* even if you write to it with unusually high frequency. Contrary to popular belief, modern flash disks have *way better reliability* than HDDs. I should still have a copy of the explanation that I gave the last time someone asked me about this (should have posted it online...), but the ultra-short version is: if you do the math, you'll be surprised-- most of what people `know' about flash memory, which is based on what was true with the state of the art 20 years ago, is basically superstition at this point. *Embedded* flash memory is somewhat of a different story, but then it's more or less standard to implement software wear-levelling layers between raw flash and anything that will be generating writes. So, pro-tip: *do* consider putting a swap partition on your (wear-levelled) flash disk; you're probably not going to end up using it as `virtual memory' in the `extra scratch-space for programs to thrash and trash' sense, but it'll allow allocated-but-*idle* segments memory to be swapped-out and make room for disk-buffer/-cache. And that can speed things up..., and even reduce writes to disk :) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Buying NanoNotes again--group purchase?
So, the NanoNote that I bought back in September has turned out to be a fantastically good purchase for me, and my wife has started demanding that I get *her* one because she wants an `OMG that's so awesome' music-player just like the one that I now have (more on that later, in another post). As such, I intend to place an order for a second NanoNote in the next couple of days (so that I can give it to her for as a Mothers' Day present), so anyone else who's interested in getting one is again invited to do a `group buy' with me so that we can save on shipping. If you missed the conversation last time, here's a link to the thread: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.gnhlug/20262 They're [still] $99, but they [still] ship from Hong Kong so shipping a single unit [still] adds ~$30 to the price; shipping more units together increases the shipping-price but only ~logarithmically, so there's an opportunity to spread the shipping-cost out with a `group buy'; for example, it [still] looks like shipping goes down to $11/unit if I order 5. Anyone interested, this time? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Buying NanoNotes again--group purchase?
Someone asked me this off-list, but I'm going to reply on-list, for now, since someone else might be interested in the response...: what do you do w/ [your NanoNote] / use it for? Does it have wifi? There's a µSD WiFi card available that can be used with it, if you like that kind of thing (think back to when WiFi for full-scale laptops came in the form of PCMCIA cards). As I mentioned, my main use is as a (smart) portable music-player (I have a smart robojockey running on it, along with a UI that allows me to manually select tracks both by browsing and by searching--both of which are really helped by the presence of the keyboard; I'm drafting a longer explanation, right now...). And my wife wants one just to use as a music-player (`the problem I always have is that I hate queueing-up music manually', she says [and `shuffle' really kinda sucks :)]. I also have Guile, Python, and some other interpreters installed, so I can use it basically as a `programmer's calculator' to solve (or just help me think through) problems that would be awkward or impossible with the more usual pocket calculators. I'm in the middle of putting together patchsets for the `audio player'-related work/packaging that I've done for it, but there's a copy of my central `driver script', here: http://www.hackerposse.com/~rozzin/mpdjay Mm. Maybe I should find time to go give a presentation at ManchLUG, or something An alternate angle on the NanoNote would be, of course: Are you the sort of person who likes Lego Mindstorms? It's less expensive than Mindstorms :) On that note, people more inclined toward hardware-hacking apparently like to connect them to their arduinos via a `universal breakout-board' µSD module that some guys in Spain are selling. On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: So, the NanoNote that I bought back in September has turned out to be a fantastically good purchase for me, and my wife has started demanding that I get *her* one because she wants an `OMG that's so awesome' music-player just like the one that I now have (more on that later, in another post). As such, I intend to place an order for a second NanoNote in the next couple of days (so that I can give it to her for as a Mothers' Day present), so anyone else who's interested in getting one is again invited to do a `group buy' with me so that we can save on shipping. If you missed the conversation last time, here's a link to the thread: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.gnhlug/20262 They're [still] $99, but they [still] ship from Hong Kong so shipping a single unit [still] adds ~$30 to the price; shipping more units together increases the shipping-price but only ~logarithmically, so there's an opportunity to spread the shipping-cost out with a `group buy'; for example, it [still] looks like shipping goes down to $11/unit if I order 5. Anyone interested, this time? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Plug Computers for whole-home audio
Mark Komarinski mkomarin...@wayga.org writes: On 04/22/2011 09:41 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: Hm. I've really gotta find a way to start attending these things I've been considering getting one (or four...) plug computers to deploy as part of a PulseAudio- and MPD-based whole-home audio system, where I've currently deployed scavenged full-scale (and full-volume...) PCs as a proof of concept. My original plug-computer thought was that I'd buy some USB audio-adapters to use with them, and then I heard about the DreamPlug coming out with integrated audio. So, maybe that's an option--the big question to which I can't find an answer is: How's the audio quality on the DreamPlug? I don't want to go too off-topic on this, but I've been a very happy customer of the Logitech (formerly SlimDevices) Squeezebox series for a number of years. Off-topic? Well, you can use them with Linux, right? ;) It's really interesting that you're raising Squeezebox, because that was what I'd initially looked at--and then discarded the idea...: Newer models have integrated speakers and can sync between players so you have the same music in all rooms. Wait--sync meaning what, exactly? Play the same song? Synchronise control (play/pause/seek simultaneously in all rooms)? Match latency between all rooms? Something else? Maybe I should expand on what I'm doing...: I've setup multicast RTP with latency-matching across all nodes in the network; I have only one `channel' right now (in the radio-tuner or input-switching sense, not in the `mono vs. stereo' sense), but it's possible to define multiple channels/sources by giving them separate multicast addresses, and then switch a given receiver to another channel just by changing the multicast address on which that receiver listens. Because of the latency-matching, multiple receiver-nodes, to the extent that the ear can tell, all have their playback perfectly *time-synced* such that there's no `echo' or `reverb' effect when standing between two adjacent rooms with separate receivers. I actually compared this against how well two (different) FM radios in adjacent rooms sync to the same radio station, and the RTP system did better. :) (multicast RTP over ethernet + dynamic resampling-algorithms with latency-analysis on pentium-class CPUs with network time-sync... provides quite a convincing emulation of speaker-wire!) That it's MPD-based means that I can have a single playback- and playlist-control server for the entire house, accessible from anywhere on the network; in other words, I have multiple `single points of control'-- client UIs are available for desktop and laptop computers of all OSes, Android devices, my friends' Apple iThings, etc. There's even a central volume-control. Using MPD *also* means that I can use all of the tools/plugins that exist for MPD--like last.fm/audioscrobbler support, gmpc, and the `mpdjay' autojockey that I'm now running on my NanoNote (actually, I originally wrote that to deploy in the whole-house system, and it didn't even occur to me that I could run it on the NanoNote until my wife said, `OMG it's so awesome! Can you make me a portable version‽'). And MPD does gapless playback, with ReplayGain to automatically adjust for differences in overall volume between different tracks/albums, etc. As I understood it, Squeezebox is basically an entirely different animal, operating (mainly? only?) on a unicast `pull' model; nothing I've been able to find in their marketing-material says otherwise (at least, not in any obvious way); so I figured that simultaneous, multi-device playback on Squeezeboxes would end up being hokey at best..., and there's no mention of whether they do any of the other stuff (listed above) that's in my list of requirements. The server software is open source and there's clients for iOS and Android along with an open web API for remote control. They're a bit more expensive than Plug systems, but for me it's worth the extra cost (and Logitech sometimes has sales on refurb items). So, my perception was actually that the Squeezeboxen were more expensive `but' also *worse* than my plug-based solution, in the ways described above (i.e.: `not a good simulation of speaker-wire'); was I mistaken? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Plug Computers for whole-home audio
Lloyd Kvam pyt...@venix.com writes: On Fri, 2011-04-22 at 17:12 -0400, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: if you do the math, you'll be surprised-- most of what people `know' about flash memory, which is based on what was true with the state of the art 20 years ago, is basically superstition at this point. Everything I know about flash memory comes from this LWN article: http://lwn.net/Articles/428584/ Among other things, the article warns that the wear leveling algorithm is likely to be closely tied to the original device format. I don't think this contradicts anything Joshua wrote. If you want more detail, follow the link. (I had been routinely reformatting to ext3 thinking it did not matter...) Do you mean the part about block-sizes? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: MPD?
Derek Atkins warl...@mit.edu writes:
Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes:
I've setup multicast RTP with latency-matching across all nodes
in the network; I have only one `channel' right now (in the radio-tuner
or input-switching sense, not in the `mono vs. stereo' sense), but it's
possible to define multiple channels/sources by giving them separate
multicast addresses, and then switch a given receiver to another channel
just by changing the multicast address on which that receiver listens.
Because of the latency-matching, multiple receiver-nodes, to the
extent that the ear can tell, all have their playback perfectly
*time-synced* such that there's no `echo' or `reverb' effect
when standing between two adjacent rooms with separate receivers.
I actually compared this against how well two (different) FM radios
in adjacent rooms sync to the same radio station, and the RTP system
did better. :)
(multicast RTP over ethernet + dynamic resampling-algorithms
with latency-analysis on pentium-class CPUs with network time-sync...
provides quite a convincing emulation of speaker-wire!)
That it's MPD-based means that I can have a single playback- and
playlist-control server for the entire house, accessible from anywhere
on the network; in other words, I have multiple `single points of control'--
client UIs are available for desktop and laptop computers of all OSes,
Android devices, my friends' Apple iThings, etc. There's even
a central volume-control.
Using MPD *also* means that I can use all of the tools/plugins that exist
for MPD--like last.fm/audioscrobbler support, gmpc, and the `mpdjay'
autojockey that I'm now running on my NanoNote (actually, I originally
wrote that to deploy in the whole-house system, and it didn't even occur
to me that I could run it on the NanoNote until my wife said, `OMG it's
so awesome! Can you make me a portable version‽'). And MPD does gapless
playback, with ReplayGain to automatically adjust for differences
in overall volume between different tracks/albums, etc.
Okay, I'll bite...
Could you give more details on how you set this up? I'd not heard of
MPD until this email, so I just looked it up. It certainly exists in
Fedora 12 (my current desktop -- yeah, yeah, I know) and from my minimal
reading it sounds pretty cool.
What I'm more interested in learning about is how you set up MPD to
perform your multiple room synchronization, what clients you use, and
how/where you store your music and playlists on the network?
Sure.
MPD manages playlists on the server--it can be told by the clients
to load them, and also to create and store new ones. We generally
run GMPC on our desktop/laptop systems, though sometimes I like
ncmpc for its keyboard-friendly nature (and it's what I run
on my NanoNote..., but that's mostly another story).
MPD runs on the machine hosting all of the audio-files
(along with my mpdjay script, and GJay--and hopefully
some other modules for auxiliary smarts, soon) which is
setup as an RTP *sender* and without any local speakers.
All of the actual `audio output' is done on receiver-nodes
elsewhere on the network.
In /etc/mpd.conf, I tell it to use PulseAudio for output with
a stanza like:
audio_output {
typepulse
nameMPD Stream
sinkrtp
description what's playing on the stereo
mixer_type software
}
... where rtp is the name of a sink defined in /etc/pulse/default.pa via:
load-module module-null-sink sink_name=rtp format=s16be channels=2
rate=44100 description=RTP Multicast Sink
load-module module-rtp-send source=rtp.monitor
Keep all of the system clocks tightly synchronised so that PulseAudio
can actually determine the network latency (by comparing the source
timestamp on the RTP packets to the system time on the receiver), and
then it's just a matter of also running Pulseaudio on the other hosts--
but with those PulseAudio instances setup as *receivers*, which can
be done in the respective /etc/pulseaudio/default.pa files with...:
load-module module-rtp-recv
... or, if you have a GUI running on the receiver machine(s), you can
just toggle-on the `enable Multicast/RTP receiver' setting in paprefs.
Except..., it actually turns out to be a little more complicated,
because:
- PulseAudio defaults to doing something clever that *should*
make playback better (look up glitch-free audio) but which,
as I understand it, tends to trigger bugs in ALSA; so any
load-module module-udev-detect directives in default.pa may
need to be modified to be load-module module-udev-detect tsched=0
on each host.
- There were major problems in PulseAudio's latency-matching code
that weren't resolved until this past January; so you want
PulseAudio 0.9.23, but it doesn't actually exist yet
On Debian 6.0, I
Re: Buying NanoNotes again--group purchase?
Looks like I have 1 taker, so far--which brings the per-unit shipping cost down below $20. If anyone else is swayed be cheap(er) shipping, let me know before the weekend--which is when I'll be placing the order :) (Oh, and FYI: I'm local to Nashua, so convenient meetups for delivery range from ~Manchester down to ~Bedford, MA). Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: Someone asked me this off-list, but I'm going to reply on-list, for now, since someone else might be interested in the response...: what do you do w/ [your NanoNote] / use it for? Does it have wifi? There's a µSD WiFi card available that can be used with it, if you like that kind of thing (think back to when WiFi for full-scale laptops came in the form of PCMCIA cards). As I mentioned, my main use is as a (smart) portable music-player (I have a smart robojockey running on it, along with a UI that allows me to manually select tracks both by browsing and by searching--both of which are really helped by the presence of the keyboard; I'm drafting a longer explanation, right now...). And my wife wants one just to use as a music-player (`the problem I always have is that I hate queueing-up music manually', she says [and `shuffle' really kinda sucks :)]. I also have Guile, Python, and some other interpreters installed, so I can use it basically as a `programmer's calculator' to solve (or just help me think through) problems that would be awkward or impossible with the more usual pocket calculators. I'm in the middle of putting together patchsets for the `audio player'-related work/packaging that I've done for it, but there's a copy of my central `driver script', here: http://www.hackerposse.com/~rozzin/mpdjay Mm. Maybe I should find time to go give a presentation at ManchLUG, or something An alternate angle on the NanoNote would be, of course: Are you the sort of person who likes Lego Mindstorms? It's less expensive than Mindstorms :) On that note, people more inclined toward hardware-hacking apparently like to connect them to their arduinos via a `universal breakout-board' µSD module that some guys in Spain are selling. On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: So, the NanoNote that I bought back in September has turned out to be a fantastically good purchase for me, and my wife has started demanding that I get *her* one because she wants an `OMG that's so awesome' music-player just like the one that I now have (more on that later, in another post). As such, I intend to place an order for a second NanoNote in the next couple of days (so that I can give it to her for as a Mothers' Day present), so anyone else who's interested in getting one is again invited to do a `group buy' with me so that we can save on shipping. If you missed the conversation last time, here's a link to the thread: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.gnhlug/20262 They're [still] $99, but they [still] ship from Hong Kong so shipping a single unit [still] adds ~$30 to the price; shipping more units together increases the shipping-price but only ~logarithmically, so there's an opportunity to spread the shipping-cost out with a `group buy'; for example, it [still] looks like shipping goes down to $11/unit if I order 5. Anyone interested, this time? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: oddball upgrade question for Ubuntu 11.04
David Hardy belovedbold...@gmail.com writes: Greetings from northern Vermont and our continuing Mud Season! I just did a little upgrade dance from 10.10 to 11.04 Natty Narwahl on an older Dell desktop with 2GB RAM. I had burned both a CD and a USB stick with it but the box would not boot from either one, possibly a corrupted download, I'm guessing. On the third upgrade attempt via the System Update option (multiple possibly because of net traffic trying to do the same thing) it downloaded and installed the packages and rebooted but halted on the splash screen. Rebooted again and got to the login screen and then, presumably, the new 11.04 screen, which is black. Keyboard and clock are fine and everything looks like it might be OK, but I can't move or activate the mouse, although its cursor is visible on the screen. Tried different mice, ensured that the mouse port was on, rebooted again, and no joy in Mudville. Any thoughts? Do you have either AutoAddDevices or AutoEnableDevices disabled in xorg.conf? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Libre Graphics Magazine
In case anyone else was unaware of its existence (I just stumbled upon it myself, recently), Libre Graphics Magazine just published its second issue--available for purchase/subscription as dead trees or (free Free) download as PDF files: http://libregraphicsmag.com/ It's a pretty neat magazine--sort-of an `artists/developers crossover series'. I really like the general `interdisciplinary dialogue' aspect of it; oh, and some of the articles are really interesting--in a concrete way :) ... like: Pages 16-17 of the current issue (1.2) are an old-school `type this program into your computer and play with it' exercise. Page 40 begins an article on workflows..., which provides some more answers to Bruce's `How does one respond...' question from last month. Issue 1.1 also included a piece on making a vector horse into a vector unicorn (like magic!)... ... and another piece on historian-artistic honesty, the conservative bias of Wikipedia, and why it's important to acknowledge that, e.g.: it actually takes a lot of culling to get a collection of photographs where Hitler never smiles charismatically. There are, of course, also some `how to do X with Y' articles, interviews, pretty pictures It also includes links to reusable media to play with, a glossary of terms used in the issue at hand, and an index of software referenced-- with screenshots. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: eWaste collection event, 21 May, Manchester, NH
Jon \maddog\ Hall mad...@li.org writes: On Fri, 2011-05-06 at 17:29 -0400, Joseph Smith wrote: On 05/06/2011 04:19 PM, Ted Roche wrote: Details here: http://www.smalldog.com/ewastenh I found it humerus that they have a bunch of pics of Mac's on the webpage :-) Well, they are basically an Apple shop, so I guess they went with what they had. I will notice that the eWaste in that picture looks a lot newer and better than *my* eWaste. Well, like you said--they're basically an Apple shop ;) As to the buying- and disposing-habits in the Apple world..., maybe it's telling that the Apple world has a site like http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/. Then, maybe something analogous exists in the GNU/Linux world (or in the `old-fart unix-weenie' world!?), but I've never seen it :) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
The death of manual typewriters (was: eWaste collection event, 21 May, Manchester, NH)
David Hardy belovedbold...@gmail.com writes: I have long since lost track of, or simply lost, the couple of manual typewriters I used to have, and I am given to understand that Olivetti of Italy was/is? the last manufacturer of them. I think I saw this on Slashdot a week or two ago; but, quoting Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter#End_of_an_era: The last factory producing manual, non-electric typewriters[15], Godrej and Boyce in Mumbai, India, was closed down in 2011, after the annual production had fallen below 1000 units. Rapid industrial changes that embrace PC's and laptops also resulted in the decline of typewriters.[16] [...] [15] CBC News (April 26), World's last typewriter plant stops production, retrieved April 27, 2011 [...] [16] Daily Mail (April 26), The end of the line: Last typewriter factory left in the world closes its doors, retrieved April 27, 2011 On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:20 PM, Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Jon maddog Hall mad...@li.org wrote: I still have my old SEARS portable, manual (non-electric) typewriter in my closet. I still have my Corona Model 3 typewriter. Built circa 1920. Just Corona; it was before they merged with Smith. It belonged to my grandfather. It still works. I once used it to type a paper for middle/high school, when my PC crapped out for some reason (I had, of course, waited until the night before it was due). It has two shift keys: CAP and FIG, the later of which does numbers and punctuation. The shift keys actually shift the entire carriage/platen assembly up. Today, most college kids don't know what a typewriter is ... Why, when I was growing up, we didn't even have air! ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Boston Linux and Unix InstallFest XL REMINDER Tomorrow Saturday June 4, 2011
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org wrote: Boston Linux Installfest XL What makes this installfest bigger than the other ones? Are more attendees expected? I think he's running with LC_NUMERIC=la_RM, in which case `XL' is his localised representation of 40. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Boston Linux and Unix InstallFest XL REMINDER Tomorrow Saturday June 4, 2011
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: Boston Linux Installfest XL What makes this installfest bigger than the other ones? Are more attendees expected? I think he's running with LC_NUMERIC=la_RM, in which case `XL' is his localised representation of 40. I was joking, in case that wasn't obvious. :) Is LC_NUMERIC=la_RM a real thing for some stuff, or are you also joking? Yes, that was a HHOS joke :) la is an actual ISO-639-1 language-code, and it does actualy refer to ancient Latin, but there doesn't appear to be any code for Rome in ISO 639; so I used RM, because that's the closest thing I could find. Yes, I did spend a fair amount of time on the research for that joke... :) I tried it on my box Deb 5.0 box and was disappointed ls -l didn't output Roman numerals for the sizes. :) Did you add (or uncomment) la_RM (or la_RM.UTF-8?) in /etc/locale.gen and then run the locale-gen command? You know, a given locale isn't actually supported on Debian until you've done that (or had dpkg-reconfigure locales do it for you) :) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Boston Linux and Unix InstallFest XL REMINDER Tomorrow Saturday June 4, 2011
Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote: Boston Linux Installfest XL What makes this installfest bigger than the other ones? Are more attendees expected? I think he's running with LC_NUMERIC=la_RM, in which case `XL' is his localised representation of 40. I was joking, in case that wasn't obvious. :) Is LC_NUMERIC=la_RM a real thing for some stuff, or are you also joking? Yes, that was a HHOS joke :) la is an actual ISO-639-1 language-code, and it does actualy refer to ancient Latin, but there doesn't appear to be any code for Rome in ISO 639; so I used RM, because that's the closest thing I could find. Uh, of course I meant doesn't appear to be any code for Rome in ISO 3166. Yes, I did spend a fair amount of time on the research for that joke... :) I tried it on my box Deb 5.0 box and was disappointed ls -l didn't output Roman numerals for the sizes. :) Did you add (or uncomment) la_RM (or la_RM.UTF-8?) in /etc/locale.gen and then run the locale-gen command? You know, a given locale isn't actually supported on Debian until you've done that (or had dpkg-reconfigure locales do it for you) :) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fwd: Linux reference on subs
Jon \maddog\ Hall mad...@li.org writes: On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 07:24 -0400, Jeffry Smith wrote: http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/archive/331544-196/uss-new-hampshire-surfaces-on-seacoast.html quote: The $2.4 billion New Hampshire is so high-tech that it has no periscope, and uses Linux-based computers to provide deck officers with views of the outside world from various external cameras, using multiple parts of the spectrum. It was not until I read the comments to the article and saw that they were posted two years ago that I realized the article was written in October of 2008. It would be interesting to see how the Linux systems have performed after 2.5 years at sea. If anyone finds out..., the article in Wikipedia is pretty scant on details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New_Hampshire_(SSN-778) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Blogging for kids
Mark Komarinski mkomarin...@wayga.org writes: It's happened. My geek of a daughter (all of 8, with her own digital camera and my old laptop) asked to have her own website, which I assume means she wants to post pictures and write a blog. Now, now, stop what you're thinking. I have no intention of this going to the outside world, and that means I need to set it up on my Debian server in the basement so she can do whatever she wants. I need to have it local so I can monitor the content and who gets access to it, but I don't know what blogging software is out there that kids can easily understand and use. I imagine some of you have run into this in the past. What did you do? My child isn't quite old enough for any of this (despite what pictures of him with my NanoNote would seem to indicate...), so this is largely conjectural, but(t) my first inclination would be to try PyBlosxom w/ Markdown, which is what I gave to my non-tech wife to use for blogging: it's basically a smooth transition from `writing text in files' to `writing a weblog'-- the only real difference between the two is that she synchs her `weblog files' up the the server with unison-gtk. Of course, the other reason (maybe the real reason...) that I gave her PyBlosxom to work with is the `Suzuki method of blog education': I use it myself, so I'm well-equipped to address whatever questions she has--even ones to which I don't yet know the answer, because there's a basis for an honest investigative dialogue. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fwd: Linux reference on subs
Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:23 AM, mno...@embedded-unlimited.com wrote: US vessel, the Yorktown ..The entire network of Windows NT machines crashed. The Navy claims the ship was dead in the water for about three hours; There's not much real information on this, but supposedly the problem was in userland code: A divide by zero error crashed the database that supported the ship systems. Doesn't sound like an OS issue. Franky, I wouldn't want to trust my life to anything running on any general-purpose OS or software, be it Linux, Unix, Microsoft, Plan 9, whatever. I'd like something with known, documented, well-understood, finite, deterministic states and transitions, please. Preferably implemented in discrete controls with manual alternatives. FYI, Wikipedia says the the (Linux-based) USS New Hampshire's oxygen-generator failed, two months ago; cites Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/21/us-unitedtechnologies-submarine-idUSTRE72K7U420110321 Not clear what OS, if any, was running the generator. Dead in the water describes a whole other prospect there, though I think it was the estimable Bill Sconce who had a shirt that summed it up nicely: As a programmer, I find your faith in computers amusing. Yes. And..., um..., I'll forgo the opportunity to expand on that, for the time being :) I'll just say, `I like my science peer-reviewed, please'. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Do one thing well... (Flash)
Michael ODonnell michael.odonn...@comcast.net writes: One Year Later: Adobe Abandons 64-bit Linux Again: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2011/06/one-year-later-adobe-abandons.html This decision makes even less sense than it did a year ago. 32-bit processors have effectively become legacy technology. Even the low end of the market, nettops and netbooks, now mainly ship with 64-bit processors. Yet it seems Adobe is unable to maintain a 64-bit Flash player for any platform: not for Windows, not for MacOS, and certainly not for Linux. Indeed--where `whether something is 64bit-clean' was a natural question to ask a few years back, 64-bit machines were unusual `specialty' hardware, and many sofware projects just didn't have anyone involved who had access to such machines..., now I find myself fielding questions from users (though only occasionally!) about whether my packages are `known to work on 32-bit systems', and I know that I'm not alone-- I've seen messages on the mailing-lists for some of the embedded projects with which I'm involved, where people ask things like: Is it possible to get a build of the toolchain that runs on 32-bit hosts? I have a single 32-bit x86 machine left running in my workshop, and don't have any plans to replace it with a similar vintage when if it ever finally dies--I wouldn't even know where to get x86-32 hardware, anymore. Thank goodness for chroots and virtual machines, I guess. Reminds me of maddog's remark in his section on linuxpromagazine.com: http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/Paw-Prints-Writings-of-the-maddog/Do-not-say-Closed-Source-or-Proprietary-Software-instead-say-Legacy-Software ... that `closed source' it's not merely closed source, but `legacy'-- from the moment that the binaries ship. Seeing Adobe's comments, I posted this remark on identi.ca, yesterday: Adobe suprised that only 1% of downloads are for legacy software that doesn't work or doesn't exist (wait—what?): http://lwn.net/Articles/447576/ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: http://linuxbeard.com/
David Hardy belovedbold...@gmail.com writes: On the Linux beard thing, I grew mine a couple of years ago until, as our son informed me, I looked like a Civil War general. I was going to keep growing it until I got a full-time Linux gig finally, and a month ago I did. So, as it was at the point of getting tangled in the car seatbelts and car doors on entering and exiting the vehicle, I trimmed it back by a few pounds. I grew one starting in late 2001 or early 2002--beards were in extreme disrepute, at that time, and needed people of good character to come to their defense. Regarding the `inability to grow a natural beard' issue..., I offer for comparison... the `You must have a Moustache' requirement in The Eric Conspiracy: http://www.catb.org/~esr/ecsl/ Several creative workarounds are presented, including: Erik Rossen 1 coolness point for being the originator and/or discoverer of the prenatal mustache. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: http://linuxbeard.com/
David Hardy belovedbold...@gmail.com writes: I would think that if one was both a UNIX/Linux person AND a brewer, they would cancel each other out and thus no beard. But maybe that is only the case if one also takes up amateur radio and/or astronomy/telescope building. And what about home gunsmithing? And beekeeping? Oh, no--a UNIX beard... of BEES!? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: http://linuxbeard.com/
Michael ODonnell michael.odonn...@comcast.net writes: http://linuxbeard.com/ I subscribed to it via identi.ca, so that I can receive timely updates with all of the news in the world of Linux beards. If anyone else wants that (and you can even receive these updates via *SMS* on your *phone*..., though *I'm* not *that* interested...), cf.: http://identi.ca/user/remote/475071 -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Label-printers for CUPS/Linux?
I'm looking at possibly getting a label-printer to hook up to one of my Debian machines, and hoping that maybe someone here can give me some guidance because (1) I've never had a PC-driven label-printer and (2) I might be doing something unusual...: I want to use libvisualid to generate tags to keep my party-guests' drink-cups straight. If I can just print the glyphs directly onto smallish, sticky paper labels, then then the whole thing is straightforward. So, I'm looking for a label-printer that will work with my Linux machine, and that can print arbitrary graphics rather than just text or bar-codes. Any suggestions? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: TTY behavior during SSH sessions
Michael ODonnell michael.odonn...@comcast.net writes: Try the -t option to force pty allocation? ...I'm talking about the SSH option, in case it wasn't obvious. Also, note that sometimes (e.g.: if you're using ssh in a pipeline) you need *two* -t flags to indicate I really mean it, use PTYs!. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Browsers
Bill Sconce sco...@in-spec-inc.com writes: Someone has to post this... -Bill ___ Sent from my virusproofed Linux PC Cute signature :) And, on that note: I made a cute `Made with Debian GNU/Linux' image, mainly for use on the back of greeting-cards, after I got card with `Made with a Mac' on the back from some friends...: http://www.rozzin.com/graphics/made-with/debian-gnu+linux.png (I thought about the Apple version, and concluded `hey, maybe it'll have a positive effect 1% of the time. That might be better than 0%'...) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Browsers
Jon \maddog\ Hall mad...@li.org writes: On Wed, 2011-08-03 at 14:42 -0400, Brian St. Pierre wrote: On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Bill Sconce sco...@in-spec-inc.com wrote: 1. http://www.pcworld.com/printable/article/id,236944/printable.html If you use Internet Explorer, your IQ might be below average--at least, according to one study. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14389430 Draw your own conclusions about IE users -- that study was a hoax... Interesting to see the number of legitimate news organizations that just swallowed the hoax and reported on it without checking into it at all. Makes you wonder about the authenticity of other news items reported by them. Yes. It's called churnalism--cf.: http://www.onthemedia.org/2011/mar/04/churning-out-pr/transcript/ http://www.pbs.org/idealab/2011/03/churnalismcom-reveals-press-release-copy-in-news-stories068.html http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/04/21/135568766/everything-you-know-about-this-band-is-wrong (that last one is particularly interesting: it's an NPR journalist saying, more or less, `it's the PR people's fault--their press releases lie to us!'). The news-media still generally report that `Linux still has yet to get to even 1% market share', too--I want to know where they keep getting *that* figure. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Browsers
Ryan Lee Stanyan ryan.stan...@gmail.com writes: I think it's called news entertainment nowadays. Just make a huge headline libeling someone and then post the retraction weeks later buried somewhere in the back. Except that `online publishing' means `never having to print a retraction' (since you can just edit the stories in-place); cf.: http://www.thequickbrown.com/ -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: MPD+PulseAudio = cheap+fast+awesome whole-home audio
In case anyone's interested, I've expanded some on the response that I gave Derek about doing whole-home audio with MPD+PulseAudio, in my online journal: http://www.hackerposse.com/~rozzin/chronicle/whole-home-pulseaudio.html This version includes a few details that I missed in the last e-mail (like what I needed to do in order to get it working on the plug-computers), and copious hyperlinks to explainations of what the various software-packages are and how to do some possibly-obscure things in Debian. Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: Derek Atkins warl...@mit.edu writes: Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com writes: I've setup multicast RTP with latency-matching across all nodes in the network; I have only one `channel' right now (in the radio-tuner or input-switching sense, not in the `mono vs. stereo' sense), but it's possible to define multiple channels/sources by giving them separate multicast addresses, and then switch a given receiver to another channel just by changing the multicast address on which that receiver listens. [...] Okay, I'll bite... Could you give more details on how you set this up? I'd not heard of MPD until this email, so I just looked it up. It certainly exists in Fedora 12 (my current desktop -- yeah, yeah, I know) and from my minimal reading it sounds pretty cool. What I'm more interested in learning about is how you set up MPD to perform your multiple room synchronization, what clients you use, and how/where you store your music and playlists on the network? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Browsers
David Hardy belovedbold...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Jerry Feldman g...@gapps.blu.org wrote: Didn't know the Internet reached all the way up in Northern Vermont. It doesn't, actually. Many areas up here are still without internet at all, or they have dial-up/modem, and/or no cell phone access. A few party-line phone systems, too. As late as the 60s, three-quarters of the roads up here were unpaved. And only a four-drive from Boston. The pols and hacks keep promising the extension of broadband to the benighted hillbillies, but it just never seems to pan out. At Firebase Dave here, we have Verizon for our cells and Fairpoint for landline phone and internet. With regular outages of all. At least you *have* access to landline telephone service--recall that, some months back, Vermont was threatening to tell Fairpoint that they would no longer be allowed to do business in the state, due to general inadequacy of service provided. This came up in a conversation of mine, the other day, and I meant to look into how it all turned out; from your description, I guess the state proved to be less powerful than the utility-company? We gave one of Openmoko's WikiReader units to my wife's sister as a christmas-present, a couple years back, because she was in the same situation (either in Vermont, or in one of the more `Vermont-like' areas further up into New Hampshire; I don't remember which it was--she's been straddling the border for a while). It seems like a such a silly device, but she loved it--because it was her `connection'; I wrote a short blog-entry about it, at the time: http://www.hackerposse.com/~rozzin/chronicle/jenny-and-the-wikireader.html I'd initially lent her mine for a couple of weeks, just to get an idea of `what real people think'; then she returned it. When given her own, she said: Oh! I've been so *lonely* without it--whenever I have a question, I think `oh, I'll just... *oh*..., I don't have it anymore!' I also wrote some longer posts around the time when I bought mine, exploring, to some extent, some socio-economic and other elements that seemed to support the notion of tapping the `lower 90%' market: http://www.hackerposse.com/~rozzin/chronicle/the-wikireader.html http://www.hackerposse.com/~rozzin/chronicle/wikireader-review.html (though, on further reflection..., considering that there are all of 10 people in Vermont--even fewer than New Hampshire's 100-person population...) -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Terminology: FOSS vs. `Legacy Software'?
I originally wrote this as a private e-mail, but I figured I'd send it along to greater GNHLUG--because I realised that I would actually like to engage you all...: maddog has written a blog-post proposing that the terms closed-source and proprietary be replaced by the term legacy software: http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/Paw-Prints-Writings-of-the-maddog/Do-not-say-Closed-Source-or-Proprietary-Software-instead-say-Legacy-Software I've been thinking a lot about this, myself--following mainly from a couple of recent conversations with friends and family: one that came out of the `cobbled whole-home audio' thing, and another that took place upon someone seeing my NanoNote (sayng, `More Linux? Really, what can Linux do that Windows or Mac OS X can't?'); and, actually, now I remember that there was another relevant one-- with the owner of the local pharmacy down on Main St., about their digital signature-pads; and another with my wife (the nurse) about software-based medical devices and the modern `medical science' (or lack thereof) behind them I agree with the idea that maddog's expressed, but I'm not so sure about the specific choice of terminology. I should, perhaps, apologise for the length of this, up front (there's a pile of other suggested terms toward the end--actually, more toward the middle--with context between here and there...). I've been thinking about what terms would best help to articulate to `the typical uncaring luddite', which required me examine the terms in which *I* actually think about the issues; and I think it's, basically, mainly along two lines One way that I think about these issues is, as a maker, something like: I have a project to do, and my choices of collaborators are either a cooperative community, or a hostile corporation that's going to fight me at every step (and charge me a premium for it!). Which would you pick? I don't really care for the `Nerd Fight-Club' thing I guess that's in the same vein as `my favourite paintings are bought as blank canvases, et idem for books' And maybe it's telling that I really wanted to remember my friend's question as What can YOU do WITH Linux that YOU can't do WITH Windows or Mac OS X?, when I'm pretty sure that's not how he asked it. The second line of thought, which probably makes for more generally- applicable conversation, could be classed as the decison between `permanent vs. disposable' systems. Like, with the home-audio thing A friend and colleague remarked that it was `hilarious that I had cobbled together an audio system far nicer than what some major players in the home-audio market have been able to do'. My response to him was (bear with me...): The *really* funny part is that I *was* ready to just put a switch/amp into the basement and run speaker-wire all over the house..., but then I went looking into ways of doing remote control fo the switch/amplifier, and didn't find any open/standard mechanism for that other than goofy IR stuff (like `relay infrared signals through a wire to a serial port and write custom code to deal with the lack of standards in IR signalling'). Then I remembered that I knew of a company that made this sort of stuff-- because I'd actually worked there a few years back. Of course, when I was there, they were using a junky, home-grown protocol (with a single-layer `stack') which was basically unworkable for anyone outside the company (it was close enough to unworkable for people *inside* the company...). So, I thought: I wonder if they're off of their weird-proprietary-junk protocol yet..., or if anyone else has actually filled the `use open standards' hole'. So I looked at their current lineup, and found that it was using something called `Gridcast'--which made me wonder: `Gridcast'? WTF is that? Yet another weird, proprietary thing...? I was also reminded that their prices were multiple orders of magnitude more than I wanted to spend (especially for something that's not clearly extensible--throw-away stuff is supposed to be *cheap*...). Since it wasn't obvious that there was any open standard for doing remote control of audio switches, and the AV in the HomePlug AV term that I'd seen associated with `Gridcast' didn't actually seem to have anything to do with Audio or Video aside from being `a fast-enough link for audio and video'..., the thought occurred to me: maybe circuit-switching really is finally dead? So, then I went looking at all-digital audio distribution, went looking for ready-made products (like `Gridcast', I guess...), and ended up figuring that it was probably going to be quicker to just hack it up myself (possibly with some gently-repurposed standards) than to even figure out what any of the consumer products I saw were even
Re: Sad news, Philip Sbrogna
Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Charles Farinella cfarine...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.ledgertranscript.com/article/philip-sbrogna So I propose we collect any donations people might want to make and give to Reading Is Fundamental, per the above. Does anyone know any good way to do that in the Internet age? I suppose we could just pass a literal hat at the next LUG meeting, but it seems like someone has prolly come up with a website or something for this sort of thing by now. I've heard of people *trying* to do this with PayPal, but it didn't work out well--the trouble being that, unless you go through the process of forming a legal entity for the purpose of collecting and disbursing the funds, it's indistinguishable from a scam. As such, from what I've heard, PayPal tends to shut these things down; and I wouldn't bet on it going any more smoothly through other sites of the same vein. It's not particularly romantic, but someone could just post a make cheques payable to... notice to the mail-list -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Debian/Ubuntu bug-squashing hackathon, MIT SIPB, Sunday
An acquaintance forwarded this notice to me, the other day-- Events like these are a great way to `flex your brain' by working on different types of stuff and solving different types of problems that you don't normally work with; to learn new stuff, and also to meet new and interesting people with similar interests. Even if you're not familiar with how packaging or other stuff in Debian and Ubuntu works, there will be some people like me there who can show you the ropes. The message was originally sent to sipb-annou...@mit.edu, but, as I understand it, the event is open to the general public-- anyone else want to go? You're invited to the SIPB office [1] for a Debian/Ubuntu bug-squashing hackathon on Sunday, August 21, from 2 PM until late evening. This is an opportunity both to get a little more familiar with the systems that many SIPB projects build on, and to give back to them and the larger free software community. We're currently in between the last alpha and the first beta of Ubuntu's next release, as well as in the middle of the development cycle of Debian's. SIPB has run this sort of hackathon a couple of times before, and it's been popular and has gotten good work done. We're hoping to do that again [2]. We'll have a couple of Debian and Ubuntu developers to help you with understanding how these projects work and to help get fixes into Debian and Ubuntu. If you're looking to get involved with a SIPB project that uses Debian or Ubuntu and particularly Debian packaging, I especially encourage you to come, as this will be a good chance to learn more about packaging and potentially to help these projects by getting some of our local fixes upstream. As with all SIPB hackathons, we'll be getting snacks and dinner. We hope to see you there! [1] http://sipb.mit.edu/office/ [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/12/msg00513.html -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
