Re: [Goanet] Caste and Creed in Goa
Hi Venantius Ever so well said below that I can't resist this GoaNet post. Venantius, may I suggest that you could add one more point in your key first paragraph below. Belief in and practice of caste is ipso facto racist and of course, racism is abhorred in any civilised society let alone a Christian one. That the Catholic Church in Goa has been complicit in it for half a millennium and that so many of the clergy across its hierarchy in Goa and the Goan Diaspora uphold this foul creed and never say anything against it surely doesn't say much about the integrity of this religion. And Vasant, if interested, please see GoaNet archives where I have, over six years at least, written extensively and critically on several dimensions of caste among the Catholic Goans. I have also done so elsewhere and continue to do so. Cornel DaCosta From: Venantius J Pinto To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Wednesday, 11 August, 2010 22:35:59 Subject: Re: [Goanet] Caste and Creed in Goa Dear Vasant, Christians must not practice caste. Period. THEY MUST NOT/SHOULD NOT in professed egalitarian spirit-have anything to do with caste. This is true, and complex as may become more apparent by the end of this post. The charm of most system is they inherently involve exogamy and endogamy; although remarkably not exclusive Of course people do not wish to loose their sense of belonging, and others want/seek parity and even benign equality, They cannot deal with the idea of being Outcast themselves, but the idea of knowing where they stand as in Tum Konnalo is admirably ingenious don't you think? Most of the are from reasonably superior stock anyways. Besides the Hindus do not need this except for deeper specifics. I lived with a Hindu family for five year, and Baba would say, te vihirintle pav kha'un bhatle gele, but considered me as part of the family. An outsider who had come in, > From: Vasant Baliga > To: Goanet > Subject: [Goanet] Caste and Creed in Goa > (del) > How can the caste system be practised by followers of Jesus-it foxes me (del)
Re: [Goanet] OBAMA FEAR's HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST's..
Hi Santosh Obama has always claimed that he is a Christian. Do you have evidence that undermines his claim? Just curious that's all! Cornel From: Santosh Helekar To: estb. 1994!Goa's premiere mailing list Sent: Friday, 6 August, 2010 20:50:18 Subject: Re: [Goanet] OBAMA FEAR's HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST's.. --- On Fri, 8/6/10, M D wrote: > >Inspite of many Christian groups in America writing to Obama about the >random >attacks on Christians and vandalization of churches in India Obama >has so far >not spoken out against the Hindu fundamentalist’s or maybe >Obama is not a >Christian. > Obama is not a Christian. It is well known that he is an Iranian Arab muslim from Kenya. Cheers, Santosh * * * Was life in the *kudds* glamourised? Who said, "It appears that the Goanese (sic) are a roving people, prepared to go to any part of the world for well-paid employment"? How did Goans find their first toehold in the Gulf? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * * * * * Was life in the *kudds* glamourised? Who said, "It appears that the Goanese (sic) are a roving people, prepared to go to any part of the world for well-paid employment"? How did Goans find their first toehold in the Gulf? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Wren and Martin Was: Re: Writing slowly and getting confused by one's own words? (was Obama etc)
For once, I will break my own rule not to contribute to Goanet. Wren and Martin is an excellent source book on grammar. For my sins, I have often taught grammar privately to English kids who since the 1960s get no grammar at school whatsoever. Middle class parents and academics despair over the poverty of grammar among lots of students including university students and some English university staff too. Despite looking for something comparable and good to the material from Wren and Martin, I have failed to find it but regret not buying a pretty good grammar book by a woman author that I found at Mumbai airport in 2005. Now, I ask Frederick Noronha to enlighten me please about any English grammar book that I can use that is better than the original 1935 Wren and Martin. Grammar rules do not really change (except in the odd fashion case as in the split infinitive) and I would suggest further that as a journalist if Frederick drew on Wren and Martin, his own English ( and I say this kindly/supportively) would be much more grammatical and even perhaps idiomatic than it sometimes tends to be! Cornel From: Frederick Noronha To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" Sent: Friday, 26 March, 2010 19:33:53 Subject: [Goanet] Wren and Martin Was: Re: Writing slowly and getting confused by one's own words? (was Obama etc) My god, you guys are living in the past, men! Apparently, this blessed book: * Was published in 1935. * Is dated due to semantic change and advances in theoretical linguistics * Was written primarily for the children of British officers resident in India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wren_&_Martin JC, please put me out of my agony and confirm that your comments below were just in jest! FN PS: Here's more about your PC Wren http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._C._Wren On 26 March 2010 18:20, Nascy Caldeira wrote: > Excuse me for not writing: Jose-bab! I like to be simple and modern. > Your mention of 'Wren and Martin', suddenly jolted me awake. > I would recommend this book to all students of English in Goa and in India > as a whole. That way their comprehension will profoundly improve >> JC: Ite missa est ! >> >> jc >> recommended book for English Comprehension : Wren and >> Martin -- -- Frederick Noronha Books from Goa :: http://goa1556.goa-india.org
Re: [Goanet] Shiv Sena protests screening of Slumdog
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com Hi Sandeep I have just seen Slumdog Millionaire. I think it is a pretty good film that will particularly appeal to Western audiencesno wonder it has 10 Oscar nominations. I regret that for now, I just haven't got the time to explain why I thought the film was good. I would be most disappointed if the people of India were prevented from seeing the film because of Shiva Sena protests. Such censoring attempts are dispicable in my view. Cornel --- On Sat, 24/1/09, Sandeep Heble wrote: From: Sandeep Heble Subject: [Goanet] Shiv Sena protests screening of Slumdog To: goa...@goanet.org Date: Saturday, 24 January, 2009, 11:14 AM * G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * ANKA SERVICES For all your Goa-based media needs - Newspapers and Electronic Media Newspaper Adverts, Press Releases, Press Conferences www.ankaservices.com kam...@ankaservices.com Fringe groups like the Hindu Janajargruti Samiti(HJS) create unnecessary controversies to gain a base for themselves. The Shiv Sena too has virtually no base in Goa. Religion is often used by these orthodox elements to pull the wool over the eyes of the masses. Such groups have neither love nor respect for Hindu and Indic values which are based on the principles of diversity and pluralism. A couple of months back, when the HJS made a noise over the screening of Hussain's documentary Film at IFFI 08, instead of calling their bluff and showing them their due place, the CM directed the authorities to cancel the screening. It is only after some Filmmakers and delegates protested that the Government relented and the documentary Film was screened. The documentary Film "Through the eyes of the Painter", showcasing the beauty of Rajasthan through the famed Painter's eyes, ran to a packed audience while the HJS volunteers who had threatened to forcefully agitate ran into their mouse-holes. The sad part is that Digamber Kamat has proved to be a leader without a spine. Instead of protecting the rights of freedom of speech and expression, he gives undue importance to such fringe radical elements. The role of the media too is deplorable. They blow these issues out of proportion giving a lot of undue mileage to such groups, when such groups hardly command a universal respect in the society. During the Ganesh Chaturthi Festival some years back, members of this group came to my house to lodge their protest against a banner we had displayed in the Mahalaxmi Temple Hall to promote our festival programme. Their complaint was a silly one: the Ganesha on the banner was playing a flute which was blasphemy as flute is a symbol only of Lord Krishna. This was followed by a 15th Century discourse on orthodox Hindu values where principles of pluralism and liberalism were shred into a million pieces. These members subsequently walked away in a huff, quite upset, as I was unwilling to bend to their diktats. In the same year, the mischievous streak in me could not resist putting a bow in Krishna's hands instead of a "Sudarshana Chakra", on our Tableau displayed in St. Inez on the eve of Diwali. (The bow is normally associated with Lord Ram). Here is a picture of that (http://tinyurl.com/dhrm54 ). And the Flute-Ganesha continued for another 2 years :-) It is pertinent to note that these radical groups understand neither the essence nor the spirit of Hinduism where the Gods have consistently been depicted liberally. During the Ganesh festival, one has to travel across the length and breadth of Goa, into its villages, particularly in cultural centres like Cumbarjua, Marcel and Ammona to understand what Hinduism is: a glowing tapestry of ideas. Some of these pictures are available at this link: http://tinyurl.com/aw3qnq A fitting tribute to India's living civilization was given by Mark Twain when he wrote and I quote: "In religion, India is the only millionaire - the One land that all men desire to see, and having seen once, by even a glimpse, would not give that glimpse for all the shows of all the rest of the globe combined". It is the cultural beauty of Hinduism that has made s
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Hi Gilbert Thank you for indicating that brief reasons for post rejections by Goanet moderators would be helpful when they are deemed "inappropriate". That is indeed all critics of Goanet moderation have been asking for since Jan/Feb 2008. I am glad you have noted this point and responded to it even if through satire! Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not. I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves. Perhaps Boso in particular can now expound on his current vacuous view that "hell hath no fury like a poster scorned". I emphasise that, I didn't barge into Goanet and at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so as it would not be in Goanet's interests to do so. Perhaps hell hath no fury like a moderator scorned and exposed so easily! Cornel --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations > that the moderators can automatically added to the > "inappropriate post" > > "confusing" > "substituting chutzpah with learning" > "You have not read or understood the post you are > responding to" > "more Xapottam than knowledge" > "same old ... same old" > "More wind than substance" > "The brow-beating in your post is a poor substitute > for reasoning"
Re: [Goanet] BOOK REVIEW: The Tailor's Daughter by Ben Antao - Reviewed by Cornel DaCosta
Hi Gabe As I did not send the review of the Tailor's Daughter to Goanet intentionally, I wonder, with tongue and cheek, if it was "inappropriate" for Goanet moderators to 'appropriate' it for Goanet? Secondly, I have been unable to obtain your explanation as to how Eliza ought to have confronted Jorge. I can't enter into the site you indicated. So, please can you indicate in your own words what Eliza ought to have done? Just intrigued! Regards Cornel --- On Thu, 2/10/08, Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Comment: Instead of giving herself to Jorge, she should > have > confronted him thus:- > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXhkOpzoVrM
Re: [Goanet] Ruptured Cyber friendships must be healed
Hi Victor and Selma Despite our very first spat on Goanet, I reiterate strongly and publicly that, I have the highest personal regard for Frederick Noronha and his general vision for Goanet--that I have repeatedly said is an esteemed website for Goans generally. However, there are things that are seriously amiss on Goanet moderation linked to the rejection of posts. That, there is now virtually a 'litany' from so many people consistently and independently emphasising problems with Goanet moderation, suggests that they cannot all be wrong or have ill intentions to undermine Goanet. In fact their expressed concerns suggest the very opposite when also noting that their Goanet rejected posts can readily find welcome acceptance on other Goan related websites. Goanet theory and practice on moderation needs a serious re-think in my humble opinion. Minimally, for a web-site, it is punitively inclined and not at all user-friendly. It therefore needs much rectification and I will spell this out, yet again, as soon as I get an opportunity. Above all, any criticisms of Goanet moderation must be made available to mainstream Goanetters and not confined privately to a ding dong between a moderataor and a critic. Otherwise, mainstream Goanetters are regularly kept in the dark about issues that need to see the light of day. They really ought to have the opportunity to reflect on issues that are not unnecessarily first 'filtered through' by moderators with marked contrasting visions of what moderation means--assuming it is needed at all or at least to the vice like grip it currently holds. Indeed, I think Miguel more than anyone else has alluded to this particular point. Further, many of Mario's (among others) insightful observations on moderation need to be considered rather than invariably rejected out of hand. I believe Goanet is big enough to cope with any internal criticism and will be the better for acknowledging and addressing criticism instead of habitually having it dismissed as "inappropriate". I also think that, some recent thoughts from Eddie Fernandes, to systematically streamline the masses of information from Goanet is definitely worthy of serious consideration. Cornel DaCosta --- On Thu, 2/10/08, Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thank you for this excellent post, Selma. I have > made many friends through Goanet, and had many arguments > with posters who hold diametrically opposed views, but such > differences of opinion should not destroy friendships or the > regard members have for one another. > > > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, Carvalho > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > First of all let me say that the internet is an evil form > of communication. It denies us every form of sensory reception and yet > affords us the opportunity for intellectual stimulation. Given this > limitation, our friendships are formed based on shared opinions, but ruptured > at the drop of a hat...
Re: [Goanet] Open letter to Goanet and other Goan related websites
Hi Gilbert Apologies for being well behind in responding to hundreds of posts over several weeks but herewith a quick reply to make a few observations re your post. I hope you have not injured yourself falling off your chair, yet again! I also hope that you do not mind the numbering below for reasons of brevity: 1. I am not a professor of English at any institution. 2. Agreed that, (just like you), I am unlikely to change my language style nor my mind-set. Is there such a need and is this normal for middle-aged men? You surely must be joking! 3. My writing style has nothing to do with "a Shakespearean bent", "colonial mindset", being a "language snob" or "aristocratic squire". It is a style that the UK intelligentsia use in universities, and the quality press eg Times, Telegraph, Guardian, Independent and Sunday Observer, and in normal articulation with educated and professional people. It uses what Prof. Bernstein described as "the elaborated code" as opposed to the "restricted code" used by those who have a reading age of 10 and tend to confine their reading to tabloids like the Daily Mail, Sun etc. 4. Indeed, clearly as a contrarian (sorry biggish word!) you were not too long ago, all praise for my language--often erroneously describing it as the Queen's English. So praiseworthy were you that you requested me to review your publication 'On Thin Ice' after which you claimed that my review was the best review you had received and that it had indeed enhanced your book. Perhaps you have forgotten about all this in your haste to rush a post but I'd like to remind you that consistency in word and thought is an important consideration to bear in mind. 5. When the reading age is as low as 10, as indicated above, simple words are used but as the reading age goes higher, invariably, more complex and sophisticated terminology is the norm. Indeed, all professionals use an elaborated and also technical code including doctors, lawyers, academics, engineers and others. Also, a good yardstick might be to compare and contrast language use in novels from those fairly simplistic popular ones to pretty sophisticated and complex presentations for intelligent readers. In this sense, D. Oppenheimer's views are pretty redundant despite your enthusiasm for them--particularly with reference to your language needs in your professional repertoire. Ironically, his psychology texts are incredibly dense linguistically but the views you quote from him and as intended for American university students, suffice for magazines like the Readers Digest that caters for a 'middle of the road' readership rather than say the Economist. You may however, recall that, I had suggested you send your 'On Thin Ice' to the Readers Digest with the hope it might be reviewed there but I don't recall if you had tried to do so and had any luck. Regards Cornel --- On Sun, 28/9/08, Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ... I fell off the chair reading the post > of Augusto Pinto (I believe Professor of English in > Goa) replying to Cornel DaCosta... > Cornel's perennial problem was displayed in his latest > post, which follows his past patterns. Likely, Cornel is > not likely to change his writing style or his mindset...
Re: [Goanet] Open letter to Goanet and other Goan related websites...
Hi Hartman Six of my posts to Goanet and one to a private group including Frederick and Bosco, since Jan/Feb 2008, received nil responses with regard to my concern about the failure of moderation and excessive rejection of posts without explanation. Nor did the six make it on Goanet for serious lack of transparency. When others experienced the same and Santosh received "inappropriate" for his carefully crafted and polite petition to Goanet on behalf of several Goanetters, I felt that my Exocet was needed. But for this Exocet, you wouldn't have a clue about this little rumble. You would have been barred from hearing about it through active censorship on Goanet. I suggest that the other issues you have in mind have much the same genesis as corrupt practices also lacking in transparency. Don't you think that Goanet, emanating from an intelligencia, should be an examplar of good practice and transparency for others to emulate? However, do let me know what other priorities there are that you have in mind. I will happily fight for them if I consider them worth fighting for but I hope you are not arguing for the local nationalism of 'Goa for the Goans' that does not have a cat in hell chance of success in this globalised society of ours. Regards Cornel --- On Mon, 29/9/08, Hartman de Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Hartman de Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Open letter to Goanet and other Goan related websites... > > People, shouldn't we be getting exercised about larger > issues here and keep > our nit-picking under tighter control? > Regards, > Hartman de Souza
Re: [Goanet] Open letter to Goanet and other Goan related
Hi Sandeep I don't believe that Cecil and Frederick are having a good laugh at our and particularly Selma's expense. I have met both of them (FN and CP)and they definitely are intelligent and serious enough to understand what is going on currently at Goanet. I only hope they will not sink it by not taking so many criticisms seriously and acting on them. That Goanet does not follow its own rules and protocols over moderation is a disgrace. Cornel. > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think Selma probably misunderstood the context of > > Cecil's post, and its true intent. > > > While Selma is all upset and jittery, Cecil and Fred > must be having a good hearty laugh over this!
Re: [Goanet] Open letter to Goanet and other Goan related websites
Hi Santosh In my experience, I will agree with you that Viviana is quite happy to provide her name and reason for a post rejection. On this count I have the highest regard for her approach re Goanet and have nil disagreement with her. However, I think I'd find it easier to extract a tooth with a pair of pliers than get Bosco to provide his name and any reason for a post rejection. Moreover he has told me personally in Toronto that since April 2008, he was no longer a moderator. This assertion of his was definitely not true nor that moderation was undertaken by people as normal members of Goanet. As to Frederick for whom I definitely still hold in high esteem, perhaps you will have noted that I indicated that I was not attacking the person but the systemic mess that Goanet is in regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects. Cornel --- On Sat, 27/9/08, Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Open letter to Goanet and other Goan related websites > > I posted the questions to Goanet. But somebody rejected > them. The person who rejected them did not sign his name. > When Viviana and Bosco reject a post they invariably sign > their name. So it is unlikely that this rejection was from > them. As far as GoenchimXapotam is concerned, it was created > for the following purpose: > > "This is a forum for all outspoken Goans and Goaphiles > who want to happily engage in heated debates on an unlimited > and unrestricted assortment of controversial subjects." > > Nobody has his ego invested in that forum. Frederick is > free to badmouth it to his heart's content. In fact, it > would be courteous of him to post his rants there. > > Cheers, > > Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Open letter to Goanet and other Goan related websites
Hi Eddie Your suggestions for Goanet to adjust to the diversity of interests is quite interesting and original. However, with regard to your reply below, I definitely have no change in mind for Goanet. I am happy with it except for one simple point. Goanet protocols allow for a reason to be provided why a post is rejected as "inappropriate". This built in protocol is ignored almost always by Goanet moderation personnel. If not true, there would be some evidence that reasons are provided when they are requested. Unfortunately, they have NEVER worked for me and several others since Jan/Feb 2008. I would rather that Goanet stated that no reasons for rejections will be provided and I could live with that--after all, Goanet is a privilege and not a right to posters. However, it is the clandestine rejection of posts, that is the source of concern for me and many others and especially, the lack of any transparency re Goanet's own protocols on rejections. On another point, Santosh Helekar deserves a reply to his polite and reasoned petition (on behalf of several Goanet posters) about how the policy on rejected posts operates. To say that his carefully worded query is "inappropriate" hardly gives much credit to Goanet surely. It simply raises more questions than answers in the current controversy. I think if Frederick Noronha attempted to address the petition/query from Santosh it would win him plaudits currently--but of course, the petition from Santosh did not reach the Goanet membership and you would not have heard about it. It was eliminated by a nameless moderator as "inappropriate"--so hurrah for Goanet operation! Strangely, my specific concern about Goanet's rejection of posts policy does not seem to perturb Frederick particularly in his long reply to my open letter. Above all, regardless of whether Cecil played a joke re Frederick and regardless of my taking Cecil seriously, for some time, a number of unhappy Goanetters about post rejections had alerted me that Frederick lay at the heart of actual rejections and that Bosco was just the poster boy. I had refused to accept this view until now and I think I need persuading that there is not a demon at work on Goanet re post rejections. As to exactly who it might be with so many denials in the air is pretty irrelevant. What is relevant is that there is a problem that needs sorting out in terms of Goanet needing to follow its own rules/protocols or changing them because of its inability to operationalise them satisfactorily. Cornel > The discussion about GoaNet moderation has come as no > surprise but the acrimony it has generated causes me concern. There are > valid arguments..
[Goanet] Open letter to Goanet and other Goan related websites
e regarding his personal integrity in running an international web site with the hollow sham that "Goanet is where Goans connect" when instead hundreds of post rejections represent a major 'disconnect' without reasons. 3. Information about exactly who the moderators are is steeped in secrecy. Surely, it is incumbent on Frederick Noronha and his fellow site owners to make this information clear so as to curtail contradictory versions emanating from so called moderators of Goanet who pathetically try to remain nameless. 4. Another form of corruption is that Frederick Noronha appears to perform the role of a newspaper editor where indeed the editor traditionally has the last word (normally without explanation) regarding a letter to the editor. However, a web-site like Goanet is not run like a newspaper. It is indeed dependent on a large number of posters who sustain discourse. Unexplained rejections of posts on Goanet inevitably stifle such discourse. If such supression of posts by elimination did not take place, Frederick Noronha as one of the site owners would hardly appear at the top of the list for posts published virtually every month! Surely, his personal integrity requires some explanation re this peculiar conundrum or we should be informed that it is his personal greater glory that is important to him rather than Goanet being of purported concern about Goan matters in Goa and the Goan Diaspora. A cheeky question would be if anyone ever moderates any of the site owners' posts, and if not, why not? And why the implicit racket of them and us on Goanet? 4. It is corrupt if it is not made clear to posters that certain ideological positions are unacceptable or indeed that his 'chieftenship' Frederick Noronha, effectively dictates what is aceeptable or not. His role smacks of authoritarian censorship evident in communist and fascist regimes. This is particularly strange for someone who is purportedly a professional journalist and purportedly a strong advocate for democracy. Further, if the intelligencia in Goa of which Goanet is clearly a part, performs as Goanet does on the inexplicable rejection of posts in significant numbers, is it any surprise that Goa is in the absolute mess that it is in with regard to corruption? Put simply, Frederick Noronha and his fellow site owners seem to be complicit in the very corruption they pretend to disown and abhor. Openess in discourse is the key towards the elimination of the hidden hand of corruption that clearly permeates Goanet through and through. 5. Non explanation for the rejection of posts allows for the corrupt practice of avoiding reading or engaging with the posts received by the moderators. 6. The paradox for me is that India does have an excellent press that in many ways emulates the best traditions of the UK press in which nothing is sacred except what affects state security. How then is it possible that Frederick Noronha runs a Goanet 'racket' in which everyting is highly secretive and totally lacking in transparency? I am sure the many Goan websites where this post of mine will be transmitted, would like to have Frederick's answer to this question out of sheer curiosity if nothing else. Finally, for me, the annual report from Transparency International was most timely. Its appearance coincided precisely with a time when I was reflecting on corruption and lack of transparency on Goanet. I therefore have, with many regrets, to assert strongly that, Goanet is a seriously non transparent organisation with the hidden hand of corruption all over it. No other website that I am familiar with reaches the depth of corruption and non transparency as Goanet does. This trenchant criticism is not meant to be personal but it is the only way I can focus on the serious systemic shortcomings of Goanet. Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.
Re: [Goanet] Advice on immigrating back to goa
Hi Remy Whilst deleting endless posts, I cam across yours and wondered if you have made any decisions on your residential future. Regards Cornel --- On Thu, 4/9/08, Remy de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Remy de Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Goanet] Advice on immigrating back to goa > To: goanet@lists.goanet.org > Date: Thursday, 4 September, 2008, 12:17 PM > Hi, > > I have been a regular reader of goanet forums for the last > 6 months. I love > the Mario's, RP, Arwins, Selmas and Barads of this > forum and the ferocity in > which each side make their opinions. With some trust i > would like to put a > personnel questions to all the goanet forum readers. > Here is a brief background: > > I have been living in the UK for about 8 years with my wife > and two > kids.Before this i was in panjim-goa studied in goa and > pune. > Later immigrated to england via portuguese passport. > Currently, I work for a > hedge fund as a quant developer and i am 32 years old. I > own house, car and > everything seems normal and cosy. Except we miss the way of > life in goa. I > grew in caranzalem right by the beach, playing footbal and > cricket. > > In the last 2 years we have been thinking with some > intensity to return back > to Goa. Reasons are mainly > 1. We want kids to grow with a sense of community and > family. All family in > goa. > 2. Wife has no chance to advance her career as child care > is costly and we > think is not favourable in the long term development of the > child. > 3. I am very passionate about goa and want to be doing > something[may be > business and have some ideas] that will make a difference > to the good of the > society in goa/india. > > I have been back to goa for holidays a couple of times and > i know already > that there are somethings i will have to get used to back > again > 1. Traffic > 2. Cleaniness > 3. Crab mentality > 4. Bureaucracy and corruption > > However, i think i can overcome all this (am not sure of no > 1 :-)) > > My question really to anyone who would like to reply: > Am i being a fool or deluded to go back to goa as some > people tell me or is > this normal to some people to go back. This is a > big decision for us as family. > > Any replies and advice will be appreciated. > > Remy De Almeida
Re: [Goanet] Will ban on migrant labour serve Goa's cause?
Hi Avelino and Armstrong Thanks for your intelligent and insightful material on the considerable value of migrant labour in Goa. The same is absolutely true in the UK where UK Ltd would come to a standstill overnight without immigrant labour. Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. "D'Souza, Avelino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Will ban on migrant labour serve Goa's cause? > > Are the migrant labour of Goa, locally known as > Ghantis, who form an integral part of Goa's economy and life, responsible for many a wrong-doing in Goa? Are they a problem or a solution to the day to day > needs of Goans? > Hats off to them. Where Goans dare venture, they > have soiled their hand sand emerged successful. > > Yes, we find less and less Goans soiling their hands > in manual labour in our cities. > "We need the migrants, and we need them because > there are a lot of jobs in Goa that the Goans aren't prepared to do.
Re: [Goanet] Swindon Goans
Hi Selma One other place the early East African Goans initially settled in was in East Ham, London. Indeed, there were enough there for organised dances at which I actually played at least twice, including a wedding, but had clean forgotten about this. And incidentally, Cliff Pereira, the Goan anthropologist found some very early Goan gravestones of seamen there but I say this from memory. As to the Goans being elitist in East Africa, depending on the context, some may say it was so but the context would be pretty important to make such a claim. And yes, I have heard about a Goan school fine for speaking Konkani, but try as I may, I have no hard evidence about this. It may well be a rumour that I have indeed discussed with Eddie Fernandes. Cornel --- Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrot > To begin with, here is the teaser. I'm given to > understand that East African Goans are elitist, and > that in school they were fined for talking in > Konkani ...:-))
Re: [Goanet] (Goanet) State of affairs at the Goa Medical College
Folks It is shocking to hear how bad things are regarding medical provision today in Goa especially in emergencies and at the supposedly prestigious Goa Medical College. Once on just arriving in Goa in the 1970s on holiday, my young children were taken very ill having eaten egg-based sandwiches on a Swiss Air flight. I had to drive like someone demented, first trying to find a recommended doctor, and then desperatly trying to obtain urgently needed prescribed drugs from any pharmacy open late at night. After endless driving on unnamed and unlit roads, I stopped at Margao Hospicio where a kindly doctor gave me the drugs free that I needed so badly. In 1990, that is some time ago, I couldn't get an ambulance, for any amount of money, to have my very sick mother to a hospital in Vasco. Even worse was that when she died, I could only get an obliging truck driver to deliver her body home in the back of his open truck. Things were bad then and I can't believe they are even worse today. For God's sake, WHY? WHY? WHY? If it is possible for a collection to be made for an up to date ambulance in Goa, I would be the first to make a financial contribution if someone will please advise on this matter. Therefore, why is Goa over four decades after 1961 so backward in the provison of such basic essentials? And do the Western tourists know about this state of affairs? Peru for instance is not particularly well off as a country but they had excellent medical facilities (ambulances, English speaking doctors, nurses, equipment, drips and drugs for every requirement) when I was in need in August 2007 in the high altitude town of Cusco. Further, as a tourist, they readily collected me (accompanied by my wife)in an excellent ambulance, in next to no time from our hotel, treated me really well and only politely enquired if I had medical travel insurance when I was ready to leave hospital. I was indeed so impressed that I invited a particular young doctor who treated me to visit me and my family in London. Cuba too, a pretty poor country, has excellent medical provisions at no cost to the people there nor to tourists. I'm afraid I am intensely angry about the awful conditions in Goa as described by several posters and I really want to do something about it even if from faraway London. Just tell me someone--anyone, what the hell can I do to be of some help however minimal. And is it really as bad as I read in the Goanet posts? Please would someone reliable that I know, like Cecil, Miguel or Frederick provide confirmation on this last point? Cornel DaCosta PS How on earth does medical tourism operate in Goa when there is seemingly so little for the local people at a key hospital like the GMC? --- Agnelo Fernandes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > > In GMC, if an accident victim is brought to casualy, > it seems even a stretcher is not brought out to take him inside, unless one of the > relatives of the patients uses some contacts. > > It seems that there is no avaiablity of basic things > such as syringes, and injections, or IV drip in GMC. All these have to be bought by patients from private hospitals, and only then any treatment starts.
Re: [Goanet] Swindon Goans
Hi Edward Methinks you are mistaken. Unless you are better informed than I, the Goans from East Africa did not go to Slough and only a few did go to the Hounslow area when they first arrived. The main concentrations were in the Tooting Bec and Manor House areas that are of course locatable on the Northern and Picadilly tube lines. However this was quite some time ago but there were also places like Plumstead, Bexleyheath and areas around Norbury, Croydon etc. I will check up with friends and let you and Selma know if we can recall other places too. It is important to note that with increasing affluence, many moved out through individual mobility rather than group mobility. The main influxes were in 1968 from Kenya and 1972 from Uganda. Cornel --- edward desilva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Selma said:- > I am now gathering information on East African > Goans, and where they congregated when they first > arrived. :-) > - > Reply: > Go to Slowgh (as the Punjabis call it). > Some of the originals are still left in Hounslow and > Southall, you will have to dig them out. > ED.
Re: [Goanet] Why can't India develop world-class athletes???
Hi Edward Can I suggest "significantly" instead of "entirely"? But surely, Mario meant exactly what he intended in his precise and impeccable English and not what you think he should have said Edward! However, I am not sure we got much of an answer to the above subject line. And now, re a previous post of yours, the Goans in Swindon, do what any other immigrants do. Stay as close to work as possible to cut down on high commuting costs in the UK and also to allow them to work longer hours by way of overtime etc instead of spending time and money on travelling to more salubrious areas. A potential BNP or any other fascist group is also less likely to have a go at a tight-knit ethnic community and I don't think the non Goan Indian communities were unduly constrained in Slough because of a significant lack of English. Most spoke two or more languages including a smattering of English --but you may have better evidence on this than I have. And further to your query, I think and hope that the Swindon Goans will not unduly spill their blood fighting any itinerant fascists but will give it to needy blood banks instead. Of note too is that, living and working in Swindon is their choice irrespective of what anyone else may think of this choice vis a vis Goa. Put simply, if we were in their shoes, we would do exactly what they are doing. Incidentally at the Goan Association sports day where budding Olympians for 2012 were doing their stuff (25/8/08), I met a Goan bloke who had been in the UK via a Portuguese passport for just two days. He was staying with a friend but would find it impossible to continue in London independently, at least initially, because of the incredibly high rents. He was, however clear that he would try to get a mortgage as soon as possible so as to build capital and not "waste money to a landlord on rent". He definitely had Swindon in mind to maximise his earnings and where work of all kinds is still plentiful--notwithstanding the current financial crunch. Cornel --- edward desilva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I understand the word entirely, so does Venatius. > It is who who does not see the broader picture > attached to the word entirely. > As usual keep 'harping on' at a dead end of an > argument with the figment of your imagination based > on a single word.
Re: [Goanet] Aum Saiba Poltolli Vetam
Hi Antonio When in teacher training college a long time ago in Mombasa, Kenya, the 75 racial, community and gender mixed group were invariably called upon to put on a performance of different traditional dance, music etc. Sadly, we Goan students only seemed to know the tune and words of just one Konkani song--aum saiba poltolli vetam. The English (colonial) tutors jibed at us that it surely had to be our 'Goan national anthem'! However, with the steam seemingly building up re 'Go for the Goans' the ballad, with revised lyrics, could perhaps become Goa's 'national anthem' at long last but celebrating non immigration into Goa instead! Any chance Antonio? Cornel --- Antonio Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tarcar mama, (Boatman) > Aum saiba polltoli vetam ( please ferry me across > the river ) > Damuche lognac vetam ( going to attend Damu's > wedding ) > Maca saiba vatti dakoi ( pl.show me the way ) > Maca saiba vatte collona ( as I do not know the land > beyond) > > The Goan traditional song celebrates immigration > into economically vibrant > Goa ( not unlike the modern day influx ) > during the first two centuries of Portuguese rule.
Re: [Goanet] Violence against Christians in Orissa
Hi Marshall Thanks to articles from you and others on Goanet and to our UK newspapers, we have obtained a fairly clear idea about the atrocities taking place against the Christians in Orissa State. One does not have to be religious to totally denounce religious bigotry against any group and it is heartening to note, that "India's Prime Minister denounces 'national shame' in state of Orissa where 60 churches were burnt down." I am not sure how we can help to overcome this tragic situation but if there is a reliable collection to help the victims of the atrocity, I and I am sure other Goanetters in the UK would be more than happy to make a financial contribution (by cheque or whatever) as the very least we could do with immediate effect. Therefore, if possible, please advise on this matter. Regards Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > FR. THOMAS CHELLEN DESCRIBES THE ORISSA MOB ORDEAL > > Fr. Thomas Chellen, director of the pastoral center > that was destroyed with a bomb, had a narrow escape > after a Hindu mob nearly set him on fire. Currently > undergoing treatment at a Catholic hospital in > Orissa's capital Bhubaneswar, Fr. Chellen had this > horrifying experience to share with Catholic News > Service: > > "They had poured kerosene on my head, and one held a > matchbox in his hands to light the fire...
Re: [Goanet] The outsiders
Hi Bernado It may not have registered with you what was recently stated on Goanet. First, the Goan/Indian doctor in the Carribean is the "coolie doctor" as per the local people. Second, for argument sake, you compare a highly trained/qualified doctor with a coolie and this is nonsensical. Third to combat the problem of parts of Goa becoming open latrines, you studiously avoided the pragmatic argument from several Goanetters for permanent and portable toilets where appropriate. Fourth, I assert that any Goan would, to use your terms, "piss" and "shit" around if toilets were not available in given circumstances. Murmugao harbour (or as often referred to as Marmagoa) was one huge open air latrine for Goan men, women and children when 'camping' out for a night or two prior to catching a ship to British and Portuguese East Africa. This was also recorded on Goanet. Fifth, where do you think the Goans, among the other Indians, faced the call of nature during the long trek between Mombasa and Nairobi and then beyond to Kisumu and Kampala, prior to and during the construction of the railway? Not even their colonial masters doing that trek, largely on foot, had portable or any other toilets at the dawn of the 20th century. So wake up man, because it appears that in the cases above, you only read what you want to and shut your eyes to other detail. Please do not damn the workers who come to Goa because there is work for them. Public education over sanitation and the provision of sanitation facilities go hand in hand re any desired or required building construction work. Now let us see how you might respond to the above. Good wishes Cornel --- Bernado Colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Goans do migrate and have migrated for > centuries to other countries. But they do not p*iss > and shite around like the uncontrolled ghantis.
Re: [Goanet] GHANTII
eft behind in Goa by the Portuguese. Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- Gabriel de Figueiredo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Electricity. Water. Phones. They would have come to > the villages in good time, increasing the > infrastructure maintaining a balance between > availaibility and supply, instead of the haphazard > growth of supply without increasing the sources of > availability, which gave rise to rationing of water > and the frequent breakdowns (brownouts and > blackouts) of electrical supplies. > > What the Portuguese gave Goans. There's more to life > than electricity, running water, phones, colleges, > universities, banks. Basic education - by this I > don't mean literacy, but efforts to get everyone to > live decently. There might not have been grand > roads, but there was access to basic justice. In > general, people lived safe. There was no need for > bars on windows as was a requirement in cities like > Bombay of that time...
Re: [Goanet] From Siridao to Swindon (with fotos)
Selma Just a short response. Swindon is the fastest growing economic town/city in the whole of the EU. This is where the jobs are---hence the immigrants. Most immigrants anywhere want to make it economically and educationally however tough the initial conditions. The Goans are no exception. Many of your observations are interesting nevertheless even though I have rushed through the post for now. Cornel --- Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://goanvoice.org.uk/supplement/SwindonGoans.htm > > selma
Re: [Goanet] Goan friend earn A-levels
Hi Bernado A response to my post may not "merit a scribble" according to you. Further, you then request a definition of Indian ethnicity. However, I took you on re your contention that there was a connection between Goan Portuguese passport holders and a-level results. I prefer to stay with this contention of yours that you make but seem unable to defend. As to the concept of ethnicity, definitions are widely available in texts and the internet and I may spell this out to you when I have more time. At its simplest, you and I are ethnic Indians. I recognise this but you seem to have a slavish attachment to things Portuguese and despise your own inheritance and heritage that is historically Indian, notwithstanding the 450 year Portuguese interlude in Goa. Those Goans who are now students in the UK are classified ethnically as Indians and definitely not Portuguese as you seem to prefer. If you knew better, you would know that the Indians do excellently educationally in the UK and are only narrowly beaten by the ethnic Chinese but whose numbers are small. In contrast, the research on the Portuguese in the UK (as workers) indicate that they have the lowest education levels of all ethnic minority workers in the UK. Thus, can you not see that many a sensible Goan who lands in Portugal craves to enter the UK for better educational and employment opportunities that are not as extensively available in Portugal? I suggest that their Portugese attachmnet is zilch in most cases but this is rather unlike your attachmnet to former Portuguese colonial rule in Goa as though there was something glorious then, rather than brutal Portuguese dictatorship in our own life times. Believe you me, Bernardo, I personally experienced some of that brutality and had previously written about it on Goanet. Interestingly, we know that when some Goans went to Toronto, Canada, the children informed the teachers that they were not Indians but Portuguese. This embarrased their teachers no end but this scenario changed once the Goans there discovered that they were predominantly middle class but by saying they were Portuguese, they were effectively aligning themselves with the working class lowly educated and poor Portuguese in Toronto. If you knew facts such as the above and that India is a potential economic giant compared to Portugal, you might perhaps revise some of your thinking about that despicable word you use--"ghantis" for my fellow Indian brothers and sisters. By all means, do criticise Indian administration, bureaucracy and corruption in Goa but please stop fooling yourself that you are not ethnically Indian in Macau and that you will take your Indian ethnicity with you if you are forced out of Macau as a foreigner and then transport yourself to Portugal. Regards Cornel --- Bernado Colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I believe that your ingenuous remarks hardly merit a > scribble. Till today you have not offered a > definition of indian ethnicity. As for being angry > with the bharats they invaded my country and are on > the verge of destroying it...
Re: [Goanet] Goan friend earn A-levels
Hi Bernardo Your logic is seemingly strange for someone who has claimed to be 'UK returned' in previous posts. Most importantly, you have failed to show any causal connection, as imputed by you, between a Portuguese passport and 'A' level grades in the UK education sector. I now make a few further comments: a) There is no such thing as a "ghanti passport". b) Assuming you actually mean an "Indian passport" but can't get yourself to admit, utter or state this simple fact, those who have entry visas with an Indian passport do not have to wait at Heathrow or at any one of the many airports in the UK to be allowed in. Thousands gain entry every year. Much the same is reciprocated for our Indian (non-Portuguese) brothers and sisters in other countries including Portugal. c) your claim that anyone with a Portuguese passport can enter the UK is a fact because of the privilege of EU membership. However, for someone so pro the Portuguese and anti Indian as you clearly are, has it minimally struck you that those same Goans with Portuguese passports seek work in the UK in the main, do so in a fellow Commonwealth country just like India is? d) I have always been keen for those Goans who want to leave Goa for better pastures, to do so. That, many head straight for the UK appears sensible for them and I applaud their decision based mainly on economic criteria. Here, they will meet a great diversity of people of whom ethnic Indians, are the majority of the ethnic minority in the UK and they are as Indian by ethnic origin, as the Goans holding Portuguese passports as you too are, and irrespective of your Portuguese passport and Macau residence. You are ethnically an Indian and to date you have been unable to challenge this simple factual assertion of mine. So Bernardo, unlike you, I never need to be personal when I send material to Goanet. The facts speak largely for themselves irrespective of any qualification I may or may not have but to which you happen to have alluded! Now that I have expressed myself a little more fully than when I normally reply to you, I hope you and others can judge the relative merits in this little discussion for themselves. Regards as always Cornel DaCosta --- Bernado Colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With a ghanti passport our Goan friends would still > be at Heathrow airport trying to get an entry into > the UK. Therefore with Portuguese citzenship not > only for these Goans (A-levels), but all the strata, > from bramanekas, to mars and chamar to sudrekas has > been a boon. Your claim to be a dotor but it clearly > looks by your writings that you are a fator! > BC >
Re: [Goanet] Goan friends work hard to get their A-levels
Hi Bernardo Just curious! How does Portuguese citizenship have anything to do with A level results? I have been an A-level examiner for years and nationality simply does not feature in them. But you may know something I don't and it would be enlightening if you illuminated this matter please! Cornel --- Bernado Colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Clearly hard work pays off congrats to the kids and > thanks to their Portuguese citzenship!
Re: [Goanet] The Toronto Convention and Goanet moderation in particular and more!
phasising that food clearly identifies us most as Goans was not in the least bit appetising to Eugene but even now, I am left with an idea and its ramifications running in my head that I had not considered before. Isn't this what a good convention does to those attending? The responses to the speaker from the floor were themselves pretty illuminating in this instance. h) Dear Eugene has been the main critic of the Convention and it was entirely right that he had his say. There have been detailed criticisms of his criticisms and it is not necessary for me to go over some of them. However, I have posed the following question for myself re Eugene: was his criticism, fair, reasonable, constructive, specific to the Convention, and objective rather than personal? On all these criteria, I think Eugene went rather overboard and could have separated the underbelly of 'kitchen politics' on the Toronto scene and confined himself to the outcomes of the Convention as planned and not as he had imagined it would be. So my answers to the above are as follows: a) fair? not quite! b) reasonable? a bit short on this. c) constructive? a long way short! d) specific to the Convention? Rather wanting! d) objective rather than personal? Definitely not! I honestly think Eugene had too much of an axe to grind and this was a bit unfortunate as he has often been excellent on Goanet. So, goodbye to Toronto and a warm welcome to Sydney for the next Goan Convention. I hope many of us will make it there before Gabe organises one in Timbuktu that I would not miss for anything in the world! Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dear Cornel and Gabe, > I'm relieved that it was not me who was the > disseminater of this information. I did happen to > make a premature post on Goanet, which I thought > might have led to a misunderstanding. Whether we > have all been premature or not, remains to be seen > and should become clear within a couple of days. > With all the acrimony we have had from Toronto, I > don't know whether we will be missing an opportunity > or dodging the bullet if it doesn't come to London. > If it does come to London, we'll have to work > together to make it a success. > best, > selma
Re: [Goanet] From Lisbon to Toronto Part I
Hi Gabe Good questions from you that are now at least partially addressed by Victor. I can assure you that were you to organise such a Convention to a really exotic place like Timbuctoo, many people, including me, could not resist the urge to attend. So, is this Timbuctoo Convention a firm offer from you then Gabe? I'd need to start saving up for it immediately. On TV recently, the mystery of Timbuctoo was presented brilliantly and I would have no hesitation in assisting you to organise a Convention there! I am right behind you on this one Gabe! Regards Cornel --- Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > QUESTION: I understand how an organisation, like > Casa de Goa, were given the honour of hosting the Convention. > > I have asked this question here to no avail, could > you tell me how the Convention was allocated to Canada, what was the basis of acceptability; similarly what was the basis of the, so called > allocation to London? > > All we get is utter silence, on pertinent questions > asked. Could I turn up at the next convention and declare that I am taking the convention to Timbuctoo?
Re: [Goanet] From Lisbon to Toronto Part I
Hi Victor I took absolutely no "umbrage" at Rene informing me in Toronto that the next Goan Convention would be held in London. I was most surprised at this totally unexpected news when informed personally by Rene and expressed my reservations about the wisdom of doing so in such a short period of time. I am used to a lead time of about two years to set up a sound base when organising an international convention/conference in a very large city like London. I happen to have organised very successful one-week residential ones in a professional capacity and was therefore awed by Kevin's ability to have generated a very successful Convention in Toronto in such a short period of time. Again, I thank him and his committee sincerely for this major achievement and for something I definitely enjoyed for the intellectual stimulus it provided, for the very appropriate social programme and the networking provision. As to who organises such a Convention is really not my business at all assuming a modicum of support for it is generated to make it a success. Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- Victor Rangel-Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To the best of my knowledge, no law governs who > may or may not organize a Goan Convention. I did not > question Casa de Goa's authority to organize it in > Lisbon; I just went, participated, and contributed > to the best of my ability. > In Lisbon, when Kevin mooted the idea of > holding it in Toronto this year, enthusiasm was > running high, and many people thought it was an > excellent idea. I thought so too. > In Toronto, Renee announced his intention to > hold it in London next year. Cornel takes umbrage at > it, and perhaps some others will.
Re: [Goanet] Of Crabs and Goans
Hi Mario, Roland and others who may have commented on the perennial topic of the Goans and the crab mentality. Perhaps, I am one of the few who is highly sceptical of this supposed 'syndrome'. Increasingly, more and more people are involved in the process of democratisation and professionalisation within societies. Thus, the evaluation of a person's worth is undertaken by peers within professions, and also by the wider public that has phenomenal access to the media through the use of transparent yardsticks, and not by the layman with perhaps an uninformed and narrow agenda. Today, it is the wider knowledge-based and highly consumerist global community that determines a person's worth and not some in a tiny parochial community trying to 'pull others down' because of some absurd notion of envy in our open societies. These societies are predicated largely on individual endeavour, achievement and success and negligibly on former assumed or real background 'pedigree' any more. Of course, outside occupations and professions, there will be an opportunity to make judgements about personal integrity, judgement and worth but there is a diminished opportunity for one 'crab' to belittle another! This is especially true when a small community like the Goan community counts for less and less in the wider diverse world community of which we are all members. In short, the 'crab mentality' may have been around in the past. Today, it hardly matters at all outside parochial confines and could not be revived, with any effect, even if we tried hard to do so! Just some very quick thoughts. Cornel DaCosta --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The crab mentality is like obscenity. It's hard to > define precisely to an absolute legal standard > because standards of morality vary from place to place, but most of us can recognize it when we see it.
Re: [Goanet] The Mau Mau Film Festival
Hi Selma I have jumped many posts to reply to yours on the Mau Mau. Mau Mau was definitely an indigenous war against colonial rule as well as against white settler hegemony in Kenya. The colonial Government at the time was in hock with the settlers although the British Government had made it clear, much earlier that, African (or native) interests were paramount in the Colony. A key Goan name supporting this fight against Kenyan colonialism was Pio Gama Pinto who later paid with his life in 1965. I hope to complete 'A Life and a Cause: a Biography of Pio Gama Pinto' reasonably soon in which I will spell out the complexities of the situation including the implications of the Cold War. There were other Asians who strongly supported the African cause in Kenya at the time including Makan Singh, Fitz de Souza, Pran Lal Seth etc. But it is true that many Asians in Kenya sat on the fence regarding African anti-colonial aspirations even though they could anticipate African rule in Kenya in the light of Indian independence in 1947 and MacMillan's speech on the Wind of Change regarding British colonial rule. It was the speed of political change in African countries that was perhaps not quite anticipated. Although I was still at school during the well reported Emergency that used British troops, fighter aircraft etc to destroy Mau Mau in the forests and the surrounding areas, I recall my strong anti white settler feelings at the time and my particular detestation of the South African apartheid oriented settlers who not only wanted to hold on to perpetuity the stolen African lands, referred to as the White Highlands, but also wanted to hang on to Kenya as a segregated replicated version of racialised South Africa of the time. They were adamant that the Africans could never rule a country like Kenya at the time and they were strongly anti Indian/Asian too. Incidentally this was also around the time of the White Australia policy that I also utterly detested and had written about subsequently on Goanet. Many of us were also pretty cognisant of the awful racism against blacks in the USA at the time. We noted this in the papers, magazines and cinemas on Pathe News. Without a doubt, informed people would be celebrating the powerful rejection of colonialism by Mau Mau (a derogatory European label incidentally) instead of the more applicable term, the Resistance Land Army against colonial rule when all other peaceful approaches over decades had been exhausted in Kenya. History is finally being written that projects a truer version of events of the time than the colonial version by the rulers of the time. Cornel PS Regret written in haste! --- Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Mervyn, > Just out of curiosity, why do the Kenyans celebrate > Mau Mau? Wasn't it a rather unpleasant part of their > history. I am trying to gather some information on > this and am particularly interested in the role > Goans might have played and where their sympathies > lay.
Re: [Goanet] Reduplicatives !
Hi Francis I am dying to discover which "English visitor (I am sure you can guess who) derisively referred to the "moderator-foderator" in sarcastic tones." Pray Francis, who, when and where? Dear Francis, surely, this is perhaps forgivably made up to enhance your quite interesting subject line of Reduplicatives! Regards Cornel --- Francis Rodrigues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dr. Barad's recently discontinued thread on female > names touched a tickle spot - the nonsensical slang-rhyme of the Goan diaspora. > Fiendishly popular with Bombay Goans, it has been > sought to be classified as alliterative, when it is in fact known as a reduplicative!
Re: [Goanet] Goan Houses and Not Portuguese Houses
Hi Ana and Eddie Perhaps the appropriate terminology might be Portuguese era Goan houses (in Goa). I agree with Eddie's idea of replicating those old homes instead of putting up concrete monstrosities just as in the UK I rather like those mock Tudor homes. However, I suspect that costs and rental returns will determine what Goa now gets. Cornel DaCosta --- Eddie Fernandes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The traditional Goan houses are selling at premium > prices in Goa. Why do the builders not construct replicas of them instead of the mega developments > of concrete blocks?
Re: [Goanet] The Toronto Convention and Goanet moderation in particular
Selma I was not working on a rumour! In Toronto, I was approached by Rene Barreto who informed me that he would be taking responsibility for the 2009 Convention in London. This info surprised me totally but he asked for and received my assurance on the spur of the moment that, I would support him in principle. However, I did tell him that I had a preference for a bi-annual even rather than an annual one. I particularly felt that a year was too little time to get a Convention going in London, whoever organised it. Soon after, I heard from reliable sources that there were tensions among some, regarding the running of the Convention in London and indeed there have been explicit indications of this in Goanet posts emanating from London. The fact is that, Rene has invariably been associated with World Goa Day--something that seems not to have won too much favour in London--especially with the parent Goan Association, UK. If I am wrong on this, I am sure I will be soon corrected. I had also indicated to Rene, in writing that, I could not support the concept of a World Goa Day until it clearly indicated that, it was fully committed to the eradication of caste among Catholic Goans and that he was in a strong position to do this. After the Convention in Lisbon in 2007, I was informally approached by Rene if I would run a similar event in London. I asked for details as I did not know what the genesis of the Convention was, nor had I attended in Lisbon. However, I had also indicated that I was not too keen on being a Convenor. As far as I am concerned, I would not be willing to work towards a Goan Convention in London, outside the democratic framework of the Goan Association UK. Cornel --- Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm afraid I have to apologise for prematurely > starting this rumour. Faleiro, has publicaly stated > in Brazil that the convention will be moving to > Australia next.
[Goanet] The Toronto Convention and Goanet moderation in particular
Hi Bosco Now that the dust is settling over the Goan Convention held in Toronto, I'd like this opportunity to make some observations please: 1. I was simply unaware that there was so much tension and animosity re local politics, over the Convention that, for my money, was definitely a great success. OK, on hindsight (that is always so easy of course) there were things that were I a convener, I might have done differently such as avoiding parallel events as far as possible, so that, keynote addresses did not clash with workshops and thus reduce numbers at the keynotes. I might also have started the programme with an opening address by the convener on the first early afternoon or just prior to lunch, clearly defining the aims and objectives and intended outcomes for the Convention, some info on the physical layout of the Convention Centre with an emphasis on the location of restrooms etc, that is, after the registration requirements, and informal introductions took place. 2. After each keynote, rather than having questions and answers, I would have preferred the large group to break up into small informal groups, of say ten or so, to discuss the keynote in some depth and summarise a few key points and questions arising for the whole conference group to comment on collectively reasonably soon after. Such collective written info of points, using whatever technology is available, can also help the person writing a full report/evaluation of the entire conference proceedings later on. 3. A simple questionnaire re the event as a whole, at the end of the proceedings would be useful too. I assume there wasn't one. Unfortunately, I had to leave soon after the informative and enjoyable keynote address on Goan music by Francis Rodrigues. 4. Getting local people to attend an international conference is always difficult and perhaps one open free session to attract more local attendance might have been a consideration. The presentations by Wendell and Dean might have suited this purpose rather well especially as they followed each other. 5. In my experience, the best discussions among participants generally take place informally when a bar is open till late and situated within the precinct and geographically at the heart of conference proceedings. I appreciate that, this can be difficult in Canada because of the tight drinking laws, especially in educational institutions. However, this is quite unlike the situation at UK conferences and perhaps the organisers of the next Convention in the UK might bear this and other points above for consideration. However, I am rather wary of the tensions already becoming evident in London over the next Convention that, I for one, would like to see bi-annually rather than annually, not withstanding the pittance provided by the Goa Government to encourage an annual event! 6. I would definitely have liked to have dedicated time for the vexed issue of Goanet moderation by a Convention organised by GNAT. Nevertheless, I am pleased that, you and I were able to have a cordial discussion from the start and to the very end when you made time for a discussion with me on Goanet moderation. I appreciate that, you in particular, as well as Mervyn did try to find such time for this important issue despite the huge demands on you as well as Mervyn on other pressing matters like ferrying VIPs, the tiatro and mando groups to and from the Convention. a) I believe that, you appreciated my and several other people's major concern that, when a post is rejected, a simple reason has to be provided as is indeed provided for within Goanet 'rules' and is within the rubric. b) That the rejection term "inappropriate" is wholly inappropriate and meaningless as it could have a thousand or more interpretations. I noted your concern that a simple explanation for a rejected post could generate a further debate but i) I did not consider this a sufficient reason not to provide a simple reason for a rejection of a post and ii) I stated that, the moderator would normally have the right to curtail any emerging debate following a rejection when a reason was provided initially. In short, I hope I conveyed the view that a rejected post, without the briefest of an explanation, was truly unbecoming of Goanet/GNAT. c) You informed me that there were now several moderators within the general membership and that you yourself have not been at the helm of Goanet moderation since last April. Unfortunately, there was no time to discuss this startling info, when I am sure most of the membership were informed recently, that you, Viviana, Herman and Frederick were those who controlled moderation of posts. This new info from you raises questions about the 'training' if any, of moderators from all and sundry and also as to exactly who moderates the moderators as is normal in all moderating circumstances in my experience of moderation and to my knowledge of such situations. d) I had provided Herman, via Goanet, (copied to
Re: [Goanet] GOA UNIV - central university status or status quo
Dear Mr Godfrey Gonsalves I am just catching up with Goanet mail in my Inbox but want to thank you very much for providing a succinct account re the above theme of central university status or status quo. I have a general interest in Goa University and your account of competing interests and personalities has clarified many issues for me. Sincerly Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. > In an inconclusive debate whether a) The Goa > University should accept the Union Governments > proposal for upgradation to the Central University > status alongwith two others in MP and Chattisgarh > in the XI V year Plan or b) maintain its present > status as a State of Goa University; there were > several unanswered questions that put the select > gathering mainly of students faculty members of the > teaching fraternity and some NGO's that assembled at > the Institute Menezes Braganza Hall today 30th July, > 2008 at 1707 hrs under a newly christened forum > Citizens(of Goa) Initiative into suspicion and > doubt...
Re: [Goanet] Toronto Convention Music Seminar
Hi Dirven Alexis Regret I was not present at the "Convention's Music Seminar" that you referred to and I don't think I was aware of an event under this specific title at the Goan Convention, Toronto. However, I did attend the outstandingly good 'keynote' presentation on Goan music by Francis Rodrigues, the President of GNAT. I found it very absorbing and informative. Although I had met Francis just once when he was passing through London, I was not aware that he was a musicologist among many other things in his wide repertoire of interests. Indeed, I look forward to obtaining his forthcoming book on Goan music that he informed me about. There must be much music in his family too as his young son (regret I can't recall his name) performed with much versatility on the piano at the evening opening reception at the Convention. I had to miss the tiatro, Goan idol and mando presentations so that I could attend an old Punjabi friend's son's wedding celebration, in a rather distant place by taxi from Mississauga, called Maple. My long-time Kenyan friend would have found it difficult to forgive me if he had discovered that I had been in Toronto but did not attend his son's lavish wedding! However, I did attend the Convention Ball that was packed out and very well organised by Clara Rodrigues and her team. I also managed to meet some (additional) Goanetters there who were just names previously. But having crossed the 'pond', I would have loved to meet several others, particularly from North America in this instance. Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- Dirven Alexis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I only managed to get up to Toronto from Kansas > late Fri nite, to see the tiatro and magnificent > Ball. > Does anybody have any info on the Convention's Music > Seminar? There were all sorts of rumours swirling > about something quite extraordinary having taken place there. > The final Presentation was apparently packed - could > any netters enlighten me on this Music seminar - I think Cornel, Rene were mentioned as having attended. Zulema (Souza?) and Portugal's Virginia were quite fulsome in their praise!
Re: [Goanet] Debate on the future of Goa University
Hi Frederick Your photograph re Goa University under the caption "Debate on the future of Goa University" but without a commentary from you, might suggest that, attendance in the lecture theatre was very minimal on a particular day or session--if not normally so! I apologise if I may have missed your commentary about the issue in a different post but would value your comments on the past, present and future of Goa university as you see it, and which I visited twice. Once, this was per kind favour of Prof Alito Sequeira. I was provided the opportunity to address a group of MA history students. I talked to them about contrasting approaches to learning and teaching in the UK university sector compared to their learning and teaching at Goa university. They agreed with me that the pedagogic styles at university and college levels appeared to be significantly different in the two scenarios that I projected. On another occasion in 2006, my offer to do a presentation to faculty on Quality Control in UK universities was accepted by the Vice-Chancellor of Goa University. Unfortunately, this did not take place as my unexpected delayed visit to Goa, that year, came about at the start of the vacation period and few staff were around at the university. Hopefully, by now, you will have read my co-authored book (Usable Knowledges as the Goal of University Education) that I passed on to you in November 2007 and become aware of my particular interest in the structures and processes in university education. With this in mind, I wonder if you can throw some light on Goa University and as stated above--re the past, present and foreseeable future? I am particularly mindful of the two quotes below from different Goanetters who referred to the University thus: a) "During its reign of 22 years, it has managed to produce more cooks onboard ships, more packers in Swindon [UK], more houseboys in Kuwait and more illegal workers in the US than any other university." b) "Does being a State University mean that below-standard Goan faculty should get refuge here?" Also, by the same poster, "With GU becoming a central University at least more of the "bhailles" will be university grade rather than "pissing on the Panjim streets grade." I am sure you will appreciate that I am intrigued by competing views about GU as I have read some high quality material by faculty such as Alito Sequeira and Peter Ronald deSouza whom I have also met in Goa and London respectively. I am also further intrigued by at least one medical doctor and Goanetter who was once seemingly proud of his Goa University obtained credentials but now seems to say he is a Bombay University product! I have absolutely no axe to grind on this issue but do hope that, others in the know, about Goa University, will also help address my genuine queries in this post. Kind regards Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- "Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ à¥à¤°à¥à¤¡à¤°à¤¿ ठनà¥à¤° à¥à¤¨à¥à¤¯à¤¾ " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Debate on the future of Goa University > http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/2719525540/ > -- > FN * Independent Journalist http://fn.goa-india.org > 784 Nr Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa India > Ph +91-832-2409490 M: +91-9970157402 > 16,000+ photos from Goa: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/
Re: [Goanet] Goa a banana republik?
Hi Bernardo I read your post on why the [Catholic] Goans leave Goa today. But surely, the trend began in Portuguese times and this has perhaps become a cultural norm (like shedding Konkani too!) apart from the continuing lack of jobs for many. There are at least two other factors. Firstly, compared to Goa, the countries where the Goans emigrate tend to be richer and therefore, for many, it is easier to earn surplus money, assuming this is worthwhile, even in the short term, than it is possible for the one staying in Goa. Secondly, as discussed by Roland in Canada and myself previously, simple pragmatic 'orderliness' in daily life is an attractive proposition to many in the increasingly multicultural/diverse societies abroad. If, by way of an example, my grandfathers left Goa in the late 1890s and you and I have chosen to live outside Goa, I think you do accept in your post that it is not wrong for others to do so if that is their choice. Generally, it is not how 'bad' things are at home that make people leave but the rosy picture of what they have of abroad that makes them want to emigrate. I therefore do not accept your title of Goa as a banana republic bearing in mind that some 200 million people are on the move internationally. It is a comtemporary trend rather than exits from innumerable banana republics surely! In my view, it may be some time before exiting Goa for pastures abroad will lose its attraction but there are some signs of this happening already. Further, for many reasons, in India generally, many professionals are returning in the reverse brain drain from abroad. Regards Cornel PS Typed in haste. Sorry. --- Bernado Colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am utterly flabbergasted by the comments of the > erudite even mentioned in the Portuguese press dr. > Jason Keith Fernandes. Goans are told even today > that Goa is honky dory after the 'liberation'...
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention -- Part I and Part 2
Hi Eugene It was nice meeting you for the first time at the Goan Convention, Toronto and I hope you will remember to kindly let me have Professor Frank de Souza's book on the Goan character, written in Bombay, that I requested as well as its price and cost when posted to me. I have read your two long posts about the Convention and clearly, you appear to know a lot more than I could possibly know, about any intrigues surrounding the Convention and the Goan organisations in Toronto. OK, it is easy to be critical about any event or organisation but I wonder if perhaps you have been a wee bit too critical and less constructively so and if your critique could have been done more dispassionately? Just a thought, bearing in mind the phenomenal effort that obviously went into the organisation and management of the Convention. I am sure we do not want to discourage others from taking on this enormous task in future years, but no doubt, note will be made of some of the operational issues you have highlighted. Kind regards Cornel --- Eugene Correia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I did not write earlier as I expected the organisers > to give us their primary report. Ben Antao is listed > as Media Director and I thought he would give us a > rundown of the convention. Since it has not come so > far, I will provide my own views and opinions...
Re: [Goanet] TORONTO GOAN INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Tri Continental Film Festival 2008 July 25 - 30, 2008 Goa, India http://www.moviesgoa.org/page/tri_continental/ http://www.moviesgoa.org/tricon/schedule_2008.pdf --- Hi Bonefacio I booked rather late for the Goan Convention in Toronto. This was when my daughter expressed a sudden renewed burst of interest in discovering yet more things about her Goan heritage! She then asked if I would accompany her in this instance. It was hard to refuse! I therefore forsook the competing and infinitely cheaper visit to the Goan Festival in London that is invariably a great success with about 6000 people attending annually. However, I was glad Toronto won in this instance! We both had open minds about what we might expect and were pleasantly surprised and pleased with the entire programme. The 'keynote addresses' were very relevant to the theme of the Convention and prompted a range of questions from the floor. Several workshops were arranged and it was possible to choose whatever one wanted and learn so much. Further, the informal discussions among varied participants were also highly valuable from my perspective. The Convention prompted at least one participant to say that we in the Goan Diaspora could do more than just discuss issues about Goa at Goan Conventions and expressed the strong desire, circumstances allowing, to visit Goa and work voluntarily in a specialist capacity. If such voluntary hands-on support was welcomed in Goa, it could set a trend, if not happening already, for at least one key outcome stemming from the Toronto Convention. Any successful convention/conference manages a good balance between serious and thought provoking discussion, and a good quality social programme alongside. This was achieved extremely well at this Goan Convention in Toronto. >From my conference organising experience, I am aware that, it is not an easy task at all to arrange for one lasting for about a week and therefore want to congratulate Kevin Saldanha and his team of hard working organisers who generated this innovative, succesful and satisfying event. They assiduously took care of every detail, including meeting the many needs of the participants, and were particularly helpful to those of us who were unfamiliar with the convention setting in Mississauga. Despite the enormous time and energy they had invested in organising the event, they managed to save much warmth and cheer for the participants and this was much appreciated. There were two other things to note. It was wonderful to meet and discuss issues with several Goanetters who were just names previously as well as to make new acquaintances. Outside of and also at the Convention, I also managed to meet old friends resident in Toronto who proved to be as excellent hosts as the Convention organisers--leaving me with a truly warm feel for the many Torontonians I met on this trip. I only hope that the UK Goans will be able to reciprocate just as well when the Goan Convention is held in London. Having just flown back from Toronto I feel pretty jet lagged and 'groggy' but wanted to respond quickly to your post before contemplating reading the mountain of mail in my inbox. But for the sheer tiredness, I would have provided much more detail than I have done rather hurriedly above. Cornel DaCosta, London UK. --- Bonefacio Lopes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear All, > > Was the above convention a real success , since we > do not hear anything more on it. > Bonefacio
Re: [Goanet] Bridge over trouble community relations
Hi John Thanks for your long account. I'll keep my comment brief re the issue of racism in the UK. Yes, there are racist incidents from time to time, often pretty tiny but occasionally big. However, for the UK to absorb some 9% of the population (of the 60 million inhabitants) with ethnic minorities, or visible minorities, in the last few decades is an outstanding achievement by any standard. Deep down, in terms of its collective consciousness, the UK is liberal and broadly fair and it is this that has made so many visible minorities feel quite at home in the great diversity here. They are collectively in no hurry to leave, and also, many more want to immigrate and settle here. Hopefully there will be more inroads into the power structure by the visible minorities reasonably soon. The somewhat unexpected rapid change in the USA from the horrendous Civil Rights days, to today, with a potential black President, has much to emulate and help the UK progress much faster than it has done, on the 'race' score. Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- JOHN MONTEIRO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ed / Selma > > The general population of the United Kingdom is > far from racialist. There are pockets bigots that > tire of the endless influx of migrants, tired of the > fights between young hoodies or hoodlums who fight > for their bit of turf, be they black or asian, born > & bred in the UK or not who mimic 'gansta' > lifestyles, there are pockets of bigots & a minority > of the population who tire of 'terrorist activities' > mainly blamed on the life-style of the migrants who > are also born & bred in the UK, or not. > > Yes there are many pockets of bigotted racialists > here in the United Kingdom, they are the minority...
Re: [Goanet] Call to Parents & Students of Goa!
Dear Dr Barad For those like me, rather unfamiliar with the status of a Central university institution in India compared to what the university of Goa is at present, (and about which I am also unclear re its current status), it would be helpful to be informed about the pros and cons in any transition that may take place, why the change is proposed and by whom/which official body? Of interest too would be any official facts, about the recognition/standing that the University of Goa enjoys, nationally and internationally re its student product, research profile and any other features. Google is likely to have some such data but personal observations and reflections from those in Goa and close to the institution would particularly interest me. Kind regards Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- "Dr. U. G. Barad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Goa University SOLD OUT by handful people!!! > > Without any hesitation I would say Goa University > which stands tall for past > 22 years has been SOLD OUTRIGHT without any > consultative process and without > any discussion on its economic, social and cultural > implications...
Re: [Goanet] [Goanet-News] Goanet Reader: Portugal not doing enough ... (Mario Cabral e Sa, in Gomantak Times)
I think Mario Cabral e Sa needs to update his info and re-think his prejudices about those Goans who have sought Portuguese passports and have made it to Europe for work. In addition to those who will enter 'lower level' jobs initially, as most migrants have to anywhere, there are dentists, doctors, architects, engineers, teachers, IT skilled people and those in a range of professions who compete hard with others in the expanded EU and want those same jobs. There are others who have been adding to their Indian qualifications through study and working hard towards such endeavours in difficult personal circumstances. Come off it Mr Cabral e Sa, unlike you, I thoroughly respect fellow Goans who are among the two or so million in the current migration process globally. I'd want to applaud them and give them a hand in any way possible as it is pretty tough making your way in a totally different environment compared to susegad Goa where there invariably is family support and one does not need to endure the relative isolation of residence in a new cold country etc. They also remit finances and are likely to contribute greatly to Goa as have those Goans in the Gulf. But equally, I also thoroughly respect those Goans who could emigrate but have chosen instead to contribute constructively to Goa from within. Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. > Mario Cabral e Sa wrote: Surely, those Goans' sudden love for ex-Estado da > India's 'Patria' and clamour for Portuguese passports is but an undisguised attempt to infiltrate the European Union job market for low-end positions which have no native takers. > Most of those 'patriotas' know nothing about > Portugal,and do not intend to live in Portugal...
Re: [Goanet] Updates on Goans in East Africa dates
Hi Tony I had meant to mention with reference to one of your recent posts about musicians in East Africa, including the origins of Maliaka in Mombasa etc that, the night club you mentioned "The Sal Davis Nite Spot" in Nairobi, was owned and run by someone who attended my school (The Goan High School) in Mombasa. We knew him then as Salim Abdalla and indeed I have a professionally taken photograph of the first school orchestra, with a little Salim on the maracas! I had sent a copy of that photograph, with a requested article of mine, about my school experiences, for the brochure when the Goan High School, Mombasa, celebrated its 75th anniversary last year. I was aware that Sal had spent time in the 1970s in London, honing in on his singing skills and with a special interest in Sammy Davies Jr but was unaware, until you mentioned it that, he had a night club in Nairobi. I was lucky to visit all the places you mentioned in Tanzania including your birth-place in Iringa but although my amateur dance band (MDB) played at Greek owned hotels in Tanga twice, I did not get a chance to visit the Tanga Goan Club that you mentioned. We sure live in a small world and I too was pleased to receive Frederick's nostalgic details of Goan clubs/institutions in East Africa. I have also enjoyed Roland's material on Goan clubs in Bombay, and Cotton Mary of course, but only regret that I didn't know about such clubs when on several past short visits to Bombay. Regards Cornel --- Tony Barros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Frederick ! > Thanks very much for giving us a taste of nostalgia > and sending us down > memory lane...
Re: [Goanet] Original Hindu surname before conversion to Christianity
Like Ignatius Fernandes in the UK, I too should like to know more about Catholic Goan Hindu surnames prior to conversion but do take note of what Antonio Menezes has said about the absence of surnames, as such, at the time and why this was so. Clearly, Prajal Sakerdande's article on this topic would interest many if it appeared on Goanet and our thanks to Joegoauk too for keeping us informed on this theme. Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- ignatius fernandes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The article by joegoauk on hindu surnames is very > interesting > I always wanted to find my hindu surname before my > ancestors > were converted to Christian.
Re: [Goanet] Community colleges, are they possible in Goa?
Hi Frederick My awareness of the development of community colleges in the 'further' and 'higher' education sectors in the UK would provide strong support for them in the Goa scene you provided. Most importantly, they can provide a second chance to those who did not make it in education previously or are not aware that they can benefit from access to education in its broadest sense. They also demystify the gradual movement into 'higher' education to the broad spectrum of the local community and draw in people who can benefit greatly as mature students-- particularly in re-routing careers. Of this, I have had a great deal of experience in Education and Community Studies at this end and therefore would like to wish your hopes and endeavours well. To my mind, the mind-sets of the teachers in community colleges in fully understanding the ethos of such institutions become critical if such colleges are to succeed and thrive. Regards Cornel --- "Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ à¥à¤°à¥à¤¡à¤°à¤¿ ठनà¥à¤° à¥à¤¨à¥à¤¯à¤¾ " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Two institutions in Mapusa -- Xavier's and Britto's > -- have been > talking about the possibilities of having their > 'community colleges' > attached to their...
Re: [Goanet] Rethinking the Goan 'Revolution'
Hi Jason Thank you for an interesting essay generating so many ideas/thoughts for Goanet readers. All I might have added is a bit of a summary to the long piece and your suggestions on what is to be done. Kind regards Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- Jason Keith Fernandes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Rethinking the Goan 'Revolution' > Some weeks ago, in the heat of the summer, I > heralded a revolutionary > moment. As citizens took to the Gram Sabhas, I was > sure, that coming on the > heels of the opposition to the Regional Plan, we > could expect revolutionary > change in Goa...
Re: [Goanet] Fwd: False accusations and Bigotry on Goanet.
Hi Cecil I want to agree strongly with what you say below about Miguel. Among others I have corresponded with, and also met in Goa, I regard the contribution of Miguel, yourself and Frederick to be really outstanding, especially attitudinally to Goa. I appreciate such contribuion for those in Goa, but also value it on behalf of those of us who are now foreign nationals, but nevertheless concerned about what is going on currently in Goa. Cornel > Cecil Pinto wrote> Miguel is a far better human > being than?I will ever be and I can only hope that > the next generation,including my sons,can somehow > emulate his attitude to > life,work,ethics,knowledge-and Goa.?
Re: [Goanet] Goan Identity Movement - Networking New York Goans
Hi Arwin I may be coming in at the tail end of this discussion but immigration into the Western countries you mentioned has not and is not being determined by ethnicity that I think you are implying. Multiculturalism or diversity has been the dominant theme that welcomes diverse ethnicities. OK, in the UK, there is some current discussion about the supposed outcomes of the decades long policy of multiculturalism and some want to emphasise monoculturalism instead. However, this regressive proposition has come in too late to take root in a multicultural globalised world in my view and is unlikely to feature strongly in a nation that is already strongly multicultural and multi-ethnic and generally thriving on this. Entry to the UK looks for the 'best' people who will contribute economically and in other respects to the advancement of the nation and therefore, rightly emphasises Enlish language usage which is already the international language in any case. This is a positive step and rather the opposite of what I think you envisage for Goa by keeping ousiders out by your narrow definition of who are deemed outsiders and who are deemed insiders. I'd rather go for inclusivity of newcomers rather than their exclusion that I read in your posts and that I believe reflect a concept of narrow regional nationalism and identity. Cornel --- Arwin Mesquita <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Santosh, > > Should your questions be at all valid, surely they > should apply to all > identities across the world. But this is not the > case with Authorities in > the US, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Gulf etc > enforcing/updating already > strict controls to protect their identity and > interests or having policies > to integrate migrants into their identity e.g. > strict immigration controls, > migrants have to study the local language, history > etc.
Re: [Goanet] Why do some find it necessary to vomit in public?
Hi John Your long post to Jose presented me a totally different perspective from my understanding of what Jose was saying. Yours was truly an eye-opener in a big way. You really must feel a lot of pain about your past and I sympathise with you strongly. This is why I did try to help (in at least a small way) to discover the background of your father for the simple reason that if I were in your shoes, I would have liked to have some answers too. And of course, Goanet and the Goan Voice (UK) came in useful towards this end. By now, you will have received lots of answers to your questions, and yet, out of the blue and over time, I am sure you will receive further unexpected gems of info. Please rest assured that I will be happy to help further in any way I can. Kindest regards Cornel --- JOHN MONTEIRO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My original post was to stop people from being so > damn inhumane towards others on this forum. You > have excelled yourself in this. I will now place > you in Number One slot as a nasty person. One > without conscience or care. What have I ever done > to you that brings the worst of your outpourings > aimed at me? > > I apologise to everyone on this forum if you think > I have gone overboard with my private life, it is to > me, to my wife & all our close, and extended family, > an OPEN BOOK, a life well lived, in all its > entirerity, dark corners, bright lights, skeletons > pushed out of the cupboards...
Re: [Goanet] Why do some find it necessary to vomit in public?
Hi Jose This may be a bit late from me but I have to agree with you totally that it is a nonsense when people have to disclose personal things about themselves in public when nobody wants to know or care. Your subject line was particularly pertinent. Cornel --- "J. Colaco < jc>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What is wrong with you people who want to tell > everybody here about personal details of your parents, married/unmarried, sudra/chardo/brahman etc. Get a hold of yourself, guys. Do you really believe that the rest of us care enough to know this personal junk?
Re: [Goanet] June 18-- Let the Revolution Begin
To whom it may concern: 1. Hundreds of collaborative peace movements across the globe between Palestinians and Israelis see the issue in a humanistic way. Suggest one minimally looks at: www.mideastpeaceforum to start with. Google can be quite useful in this respect. 2. I disagree with Paulo about his interpretation that India had no right to Goa. Paulo's position, and some others is that, India was not a political entity when the Portuguese conquered Goa. This point is perhaps true although India was a geographical entity. Sometime, I hope to make a case against Paulo's position from a geopolitical and anti colonial point of view but this will have to wait for now. I think Mario has addressed this too but perhaps a little more in terms of conquest. Cornel --- Chris Vaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > By this reasoning the "peace process" in the Middle > East can be put to rest. > > Israel won. They should keep all the conquered > territories. > > Now that also settles the question of the millions > of Jews who were thrown > out by the Arabs with only the shirts on their back! > No rationale exists > for their claim for reparations or restitution. > Q.E.D. > Brilliant, Mario, absolutely brilliant! > Chris >
Re: [Goanet] Repeated use of the word Ghanti
Hi Samir Along with others in the past I have objected strongly to the term 'ghanti' as used on Goanet. As to what the moderators are doing about it is a good question. Wouldn't it be nice if you at least got an acknowledgement from Goanet about this concern? Regards Cornel DaCosta --- Samir Kelekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I take severe objections to the repeated use of the > word "ghanti" on Goanet > to deride the poor migrants. > > What are the moderators doing? > Ghanti is an utterly derogatory word.
Re: [Goanet] Of Gated Communities and Misinformation
Hi Selma I regret I have been away from Goanet posts for a few days watching a lot of sport and am only just catching up. If you insist that your residence is a "gated community" without sight of a gate or fence to stop anyone from entering the premises, that is your prerogative. You are welcome to believe and state what you like. Equally then, you have to give credence to my informed view, without you getting so emotional, that yours is not a gated community--the rather simple point I was making in initiating a debate. By way of an illustration, accommodation in a proper gated community in Bangalore and Delhi that I have seen for returning people re the current reverse brain drain, costs around £5000 or Rs 400,000 a month and I reckon someone would be paying at least £15,000 a month even if miles from central London for something similar. I will also accept it if you insist that you are indeed paying this kind of money (for a conventionally understood gated community and of the kind I have also seen in Rio and Chennai but am unaware of the cost), and perhaps £30,000 a month for your non-visible gated community accommodation bristling with electronic gadgetry! I am sure thousands of Goanetters will be suitably impressed too if you allow yourself to provide a clue as to how much your "gated community" accommodation may be costing you. Further, it is a fact that, your block of flats are not being rented or sold as part of a "gated community" otherwise, their cost would have been infinitely greater than they are priced on the market currently. Please check this out as the info may yet be there with the estate agents, assuming that the flats are not yet sold in the current depressed housing market. As the premises are not on any printed map because they are very new, I had to initially find out their location from estate agents who had the flats for sale on line. So, in sum, I put it to you that: a)you were unable to enter a simple debate on the idea of a "gated community" initiated by you and to which I responded entirely and strictly in terms of your tenor, and the context and content you supplied--nothing more and nothing less. b) at one point, you claimed that I must have missed the gate! Do check this point as a fact. In other words you initially took the line that there was indeed a visible gate that I had somehow missed as well as a substantial fence around, that I had also somehow missed! c) when you realised that you were getting yourself into a deep hole I suggest that, you switched to the idea of an electronic "gated community". Do you think that the sellers/renters would not have emphasised this point strongly in their sales literature if this were true? d) At absolutely no point have I referred to you as a "liar" for you to 'loudly' proclaim that you are not a liar. This is something that I found unexpectedly odd. Let me end by saying that, I really get quite tired of some Goans in the West, trying to impress fellow Goans, particularly in Goa/India with exaggerated spoken and written claims about rosy living conditions here. In my book, this is something terribly wrong to do. Providing an accurate picture is one thing but not something that may be quite untrue and grossly exaggerated. Therefore, surely if you so wish, the proveable fact of your monthly rent, for your electronically controlled, "gated community" accommodation, MINUS any physical signs of gates, should hopefully put an end to this totally unexpectedly contentious issue. Cornel PS I also note that in the info you chose to provide and supposedly from the owners, there suddenly is absolutely nothing there about a gated community with an electronic fence. --- Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In your hurry to castigate me and save 9000 members > from being deceived, you didn't even consider that > maybe you could potentially wrong as well. Gated > communities are found all the way from Rodeo drive > to the marsh-lands of Chennai all in varying degrees > and shades of prosperity. If the standards of mine > did not meet with your expectations of what a gated > community should be that is upto debate.
Re: [Goanet] Of Gated Communities and Misinformation
Hi Venantius I have not had a chance to get on to Goanet recently because of other commitments. However, please let me know when I have ever referred to anyone on Goanet as a "LIAR". If unable to do so, I am sure you will be inclined to retract your statement below as totally incorrect and uninformed. Regards Cornel DaCosta --- Venantius Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote My humble opinon > is that Dr. DaCosta > should not have use the word, liar.
Re: [Goanet] Of Gated Communities and Misinformation
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- South Asian Film Festival in Goa from Fri (June 27) to Mon (June 30) At Kala Academy, and ESG, Panaji, Goa http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-June/076384.html --- Hi Selma I have just noted, a bit late, your post below and therefore owe you a reply. I will try to be brief in the little time I have right now. 1 This discussion began with you telling some 9000 Goanetters that you lived in a "gated community" in London. Believe you me, this would be a major achievement by any London standard! There was no bile involved in me whatsoever but much concern that thousands of Goanetters, especially in Goa/India with some awareness of really expensive gated communities, and some in Delhi charging £5000 a month in rent, and new ones sprouting in India, should not be thoroughly misled by your claim that was entirely wrong intentionally or unintentionally. 2. Having noted that what you said was blatantly untrue, I said so, strictly in the spirit and context of your public forum post. 3. Despite the reasons provided by me, you insisted on your original claim re your gated community with unsustainable further claims to support your stance. 4. On reflection, please let us Goanetters know if you now accept that you were seriously mistaken about your gated community or if you still insist that you live in one. 5. Following your answer, we can definitely proceed further on other aspects of your claims about gated communities in the UK. I too have had a chance to read Google and other articles about gated communities in the UK and none indicate much enthusiasm for the relatively few that exist. 6. By way of info, in the 1930s or so, in Oxford, a number of walls had been built by the middle classes to separate themselves from the working class estates. These were referred to as the Cutteslowe Walls and a fascinating book about this fact may still be in print. Most certainly visitors often come to the site as they do the Berlin Wall site in Germany. The lesser known but nevertheless notorious Cuttoslowe Walls were eventually demolished after much acrimony, dispute and bitterness. But most importantly, it led to a general reluctance in the UK to separate/segregate people with gated communities (however wealthy some private people may be), and local authorities (municipalities) would be hard- pushed to permit the odd one. Even Downing Street was open to the public and I have taken photographs of friends and relatives at that famous door at No 10. This came to an end with the worsening crises in Ireland and when Irish terrorism reached London on a large scale. But of course, gated communities can be found rather a lot in parts of the USA, Columbia, Brazil and South Africa etc invariably for security/safety reasons. If I had to live in San Paulo or Rio (with among the highest murder rates in the world), for six months on an assignment, I would be stupid not to live in an expensive gated community, but thankfully, the UK is a long long way from such a situation and from the false impression you were naively providing to so many Goanetters, wittingly or unwittingly. Cornel --- Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The personal bile of your post knocked the wind out > of my sails but now that I've recovered, I have to > seriously contest your post for its utter lack of > facts. As usual, google will usually provide one > with facts, where posters find it appropriate to > make up their own.
Re: [Goanet] I will not be called a liar
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- South Asian Film Festival in Goa from Fri (June 27) to Mon (June 30) At Kala Academy, and ESG, Panaji, Goa http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-June/076384.html --- Hi John I found what Edward had to say about Selma totally unacceptable and am surprised the moderators let it through. When on earth are the 'Catholic' Goans going to junk the absolute humbug of caste? Cornel --- JOHN MONTEIRO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Re: [Goanet] No Goans in the East End of London?
Hi Gabe Thanks for your excerpt. I agree with the views expressed, the gist of which emphasises the need for non-whites at executive level re the television media. However, I wonder if the fact that Greater London has some 10% of the population who are non white leads to their greater general representation on the screen. When in the north of the country, the TV there appears to have fewer non whites. That having been said, at a World Goa Day meet in London, where I did a ten minute requested presentation a fortnight ago, among other things, I bemoaned the fact that we are yet to have a single Goan presenter on TV news when we have dozens of non Goan Indians doing an excellent job. Finally in today's Guardian on page 23 there is a whole page splash, but probably not in too much depth, on the situation foreigners are finding for themselves regarding their properties in Goa. Regards Cornel --- Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Excerpt: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jun/26/bbc.television > > COMMENT: There are many Goans living in the East End > of London, there is even an umbrella of Goans called 'Newham Goans'. I shall concede > though, that the predominant Asians in the East End > of London, are Bangladeshis.
Re: [Goanet] Montri's Expenses
Hi Tony I too have been staggered and disgusted at the size of hospiality expenses claimed by Ministers in Goa. But this may not be too different from substantial claims made by UK politicians for themselves while asking the public to economise on things like essential postage for official purposes or not to flush the toilet too often! Fortunately, all claims by politicians in the UK are now being scrutinised thoroughly and their perks reconsidered. This has been much influnced by the 'anger' displayed, particularly in the popular tabloid press. While I do not claim to give people in Goa any advice, I hope this info will be useful there to consider the need for firm scrutiny and reduction in the size of politicians' expense claims. The local daily papers could help greatly in this respect if they do not do so already. Cornel DaCosta --- Tony de Sa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The figures given by Lionel Messias on the opulent > indulgence of the Ministers by way of their food, drink and air fare bills are a constant > source of amazement to me.
Re: [Goanet] Of Gated Communities and Middle-class aspirations
Hi Selma I can't apologise enough if I upset you over my observations of your gated community or not. I will repeat that your premises are not a gated community as conventionally understood and what I have seen elsewhere. Minimally, a gated community lives within a clearly demarcated area that has a gate that keeps people out until permitted to enter by a resident or some kind of guard at the gate. Your premises had no gate in sight, nor a concierge to stop me getting in my car to your front door. A simple photograph would confirm my point. OK, there may have been cameras (assuming they were switched on) monitoring who gets in and out, but virtually every building in Greater London has surveillance by camera. Therefore, I want to suggest that if it was so easy for me to enter unchallenged, and also to leave your ungated area without a guard in sight, you may want to question the people who advertised the place to you as a gated community. I think you may have questions for them and on reflection may want to thank me for drawing your attention to this important point and not get taken in by the rhetoric of those renting/selling the place on false pretences. It is of course possible that, as people visit the site because flats are for sale, open entry becomes essential to the sellers of properties there, and an encouragement to people to drive into the site on the spur of the moment. Of course too, this further reduces any claim of it being a gated community at present! You refer to 100,000 people living in gated communities in the UK. This is in a population of 60,000,000 thus constituting only .0017 as a proportion of the population. A drop in the ocean surely and hardly worth emphasising as an illustration of the middle classes "huddling" together in gated communities--the main point of your piece. Further, .0017 of the residential population in gated communities could easily be missed even by satellite photography and would therefore readily be missed by me when driving around merely noting middle and working class areas. Wouldn't you agree? Let me finish by saying that the essence of what I said about the middle classes not living in gated communities in the UK definitely holds. It was the opposite of what you said and my statistical figure confirms this. Once again, I offer my unstinting apologies if I upset you. This was not the intention at all. I merely wanted to challenge your concept of a gated community on an open forum and in reply to your post on an open forum. Cornel PS The wrought iron decorative fence at the back of the premises was low enough and beautifully curvaceous and without spikes for any arthritic fellow like me to easily get over. It was no barrier consistent with the term a gated community! --- Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- On Mon, 6/23/08, CORNEL DACOSTA > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Oh dearie, dearie me, > I have no idea what this outburst is all about. I'm > sorry you didn't think my residence to be a gated > community. I'll have to take it up with the lettings > agent that sold it to us as one. It could also just > be that you missed the wrought-iron gates around it...
Re: [Goanet] Of Gated Communities and Middle-class aspirations
Hi Selma First, pray what gated community do you live in? And "paradise"? The mind boggles! I was able to drive right to your door-step without a gate in sight! (JC please note). There was very wide two-laned open entry to your block of new flats with welcome signs for people to view flats for sale that were quite reasonably priced too. There was absolutely no sign of any 'gatedness' (security consciousness/awareness) or 'gateitude' (attitude) if I can coin entirely new terms just for the hell of it! Further, I could tell very quickly that the location would definitely not need any kind of gates for a long time to come--if at all. Second, middle classes in different parts of the world will look for 'gatedness' depending on the environment. They most certainly do so in many cities in Brazil because murder rates are among the highest in the world in San Paulo, Rio etc. Indeed, well off middle classes there have to commute by helicopter to feel safe and have to employ armed guards too. In neighbouring Buenos Aires (Argentina) space that is money engendered, separates the poorer people from the better off and 'gatedness' of the Brazilian type seems not necessary--as far as I could tell. Third, in the UK, the middle classes definitely do not "huddle" together. They can afford to stay in more affluent spaced-out areas and particularly well away from council house type of working class areas. The middle classes, and especially those financially well off, progressively move to the more salubrious areas that are determined often by space that money buys, and generally not gates, to keep away the riff raff. In other words, the riff raff are physically distanced from the affluent middle classes and it is quite easy to distinguish areas by social class by just driving through them and I have yet to see a gated-community in my several decades here. In the built-up city, affluent areas generally do not have gates though individual homes may have electronic gates as the increased disparity between rich and poor in Blair's New Labour Britain has been a major contributer to crime. It sure takes quite a while to accurately 'suss' out living complexities in any country. Regards Cornel PS Re your expressed disappointment elsewhere about Dickens and his several affairs, were there not a number of women who colluded in the man's romantic and sexual desires? So, why just deride only him as you do? --- Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I woke up this morning to read that Britain would be > hit by gale-winds of upto 60 miles per hour. Looking > through the windows onto the garden that forms part > of the gated-community I live in, all seemed > blissfully calm. This, I realised is why the > middle-class the world over, huddle together and > cloister in gated communities. I took my daughter > out and played ball, secure in the knowledge that no > ill could come to our corner of paradise.
Re: [Goanet] Don't be over eager to emigrate to USA
Hi Gabe Thanks for the info about the poor in the USA. This has been common knowledge this side of the pond whatever Mario says. I had actually met with the respected black author and columnist, Gary Younge, last year to explore Mario's position on the American poor compared to the middle classes in Europe and got confirmation of the the true picture you and I have always known, and of course, you lived in the States longer than I did and we both freely chose to settle in the UK with no regrets. Re emigrating to the USA, we in the UK are creatures of habit, as are others of course, and would not now readily opt for the USA. Minimally life isn't bad at all in the UK even if we are somewhat congested in the big cities. Where on earth would one get free comprehensive medical care without questions asked about insurance cover etc and with absolutely no payment once one hits 60? Yes, Mario, it is free for us old cogers! We stop paying for health cover at 60. Unfortunately we were cheated on dental care by that comedian of a Prime Minister, Tony Blair. Where would one get free (yes free at 60) travel by train, tube, bus etc in Greater London that makes a car quite unnecessary? Where would one get the fantastic social and ethnic diversity that say London offers? Where else would one get quite the comprehensive quality of media and intellectual stimulation so easily and readily? And where can one be quite oneself as in the UK especially with its great pubs? OK it is far from perfect but for my money choosing between the UK and the USA is no brainer. Further, with a composite population of some 400 million and expanding, the EU of which we are an integral part, has a lot of diversity, history and sophistication compared to the smaller USA---population wise (300 million) and until very recently, blowing cash as though there were no tomorrow! However, there is nothing to beat the USA for those young people keen to get a good post-graduate scientific, engineering and medical education that opens wide career opportunities. On this count, I think the USA surpases any other country for considerable scope in PhD and post doctoral study---notwithstanding Edward's recent 'dictum' in his specialist area of 'knowledge' about the PhD! And oh yes, republicanism appeals to me and the space and its diversity is incredibly attractive in America. Above all, as in Australia, the greater availability of space reduces the need to live cheek by jowl that, in itself can generate tension in a society even though living in big cities is so attractive on both sides of the pond. Let me finish by suggesting that you have had two bites of the cherry on this issue of UK versus the USA. Poor Mario had responded by suggesting that the only test to ascertain the 'greatness' of the USA was to visit the place and note how many want to get there as migrants etc. However, a nameless moderator blocked his post ( I have a copy), saying, quite incorrectly of course, that Mario was "off [to]pic". How on earth a reply to a post can be off topic can only be understood by the incredibly strange logic of Goanet moderation! How do I know? I have been moderating Goanet moderators for a while and have found them seriously unable to adequately do the jobs they have taken on. Cornel --- Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It seems that the Middle class in the USA are really > equivalent to > 'the poor in Western Europe'
Re: [Goanet] The International Goan Convention July 2008 -
Edward It wouldn't hurt if you checked your facts before splashing them on Goanet. Persaud admitted that he had plagiarised material from sources that he did not acknowledge properly or at all. For this he got suspended from his medical Consultant post for three months. This had nothing to do with his qualifications which included eight degrees and at least one PhD. Further, telling right from wrong is a moral issue and not contingent on an academic qualification. Your unchecked facts on PhDs have also got negligible credibility. Do you think you are wasting our time because you have nothing better to do? I only ask because you have accused others on Goanet of doing just this! Cornel DaCosta PS Bookworms read intensely. "Copying" has nothing to do with being a bookworm! --- edward desilva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > PhD people (especially Indians) are book worms (that > is what I meant by saying copying). > Plus, we have a special case in UK, where a DR > Parsaud plagiarised for his PhD. QED. > ED.
Re: [Goanet] The International Goan Convention July 2008 - Brahmin Vol 3, Issue 742
Hello Rui I am really happy that you have responded to my post in reply to yours on the Brahmins. I am a democrat first and foremost and would fight for your right to discuss the Brahmin issue anywhere provided civilised language is used of course. It is unfortunate that Bosco de Mello articulated alarm that some might raise issues to do with caste among the Christian Goans at the Convention in Toronto. However, his position may provide a clue why he seems to be so uncomfortable over even trying to be evenhanded re the issue of caste on Goanet. Since, the start of 2008, he has definitely allowed the publicity of posts from caste adherents but blocked the anti-casteists attempting to reply to such posts. This has happened to me repeatedly and you may be rather surprised to hear that, three replies (including mine) were blocked when you presented your substantial and somewhat intriguing post on the Brahmins. It is only when I made a fuss and checked with eight Goanetters privately that, there really was not much in my post to you that, required it to be blocked that Bosco most grudgingly relented for the second time this month on a caste issue. I hardly need to tell you that there were strong words between us privately and I know for sure that this is only the beginning of a long war not about caste but about censorship on Goanet that would make Gobbels, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot blush if they were around. If I exaggerate, here is a £50 prize by cheque to the person who can provide a persuasive explanation for the following: While Rajan was 'admonished' by several Goanetters for his intemperate content on Goanet, he was allowed to gloat over it further. Simultaneously, a little post of mine was blocked without explanation. It had simply said to Santosh Helekar about one of Fr Ivo's posts thus: "I honestly get weary of Fr. Ivo's confusion over the remit of science and the remit of religion. Your answer below is spot on re the manifest confusion contained in his [Ivo's] point below." My £50 cash offer is applicable to Bosco too if he will rise to the occasion! As he has never provided me, Mario and several others a single reason (as permitted in Goanet criteria),why posts are blocked, perhaps a cash offer might do the trick this time! After all £50 is not an unreasonable sum in Canadian dollars! Because of the horrendous problem that anti-casteists face in trying to reply to posts like yours (that I have already welcomed for reasons of democracy in discourse) I have been forced to use strategies like "in using academic style" and capital letters from time to time to distract Bosco from blocking my posts. I would gladly not do this but I sincerely hope you understand my predicament and of several others who are forced to re-submit posts ad nauseam just to make a point. Today, I note with great interest, Mervyn Lobo's despair with Goanet moderation and a bit of history behind it. As I was the first to recently take on, in a big way, this nonsense we call Goanet moderation when it is in fact selective censorship, I look forward to see further developments in this area. And now belatedly, here are some comments in reply to your post to me. I am sorry I did not receive your earlier post in my inbox on Brahmins and the International Convention--hence my expressed curiosity about the issue. However, I will now respond, at least briefly, to some of the points you kindly reiterated to me by interspersing my comments with yours but in upper case simply to distinguish who said what: --- rui nuvo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - I could not make out what you meant by FIRMLY > with your appeal to the moderator. I might have mistaken it for just verbosity but as it is in upper > case perhaps it has an added significance which > would be nice to know. CORNEL: AS I INDICATED, I WAS UNCLEAR WHETHER YOU WERE SERIOUS OR JOKING OVER MATTERS, I WAS KEEN TO ILLUSTRATE THAT, I WAS TAKING A FIRM LINE OVER MY CONTENT---HENCE THE USE OF "FIRMLY" FOR EMPHASIS. > - For readers who need a rough gist of what I said > initially when I first started the thread, I have captured the main elements below. The thread was > targeted to the Brahmin caste group. Here it what I > said: > a) Identity: I come from a culture with a social > structure which is the caste system. Speaking purely for myself I made it clear that I come from > the Brahmin caste. I was addressing the Brahmins > because I understand them best. CORNEL: AS A REASONABLE PERSON I AM SURE THAT YOU WILL AGREE THAT IN ADDRESSING THE BRAHMINS, AS YOU SAY YOU DID, YOU WERE WITTINGLY OR UNWITTINGLY ALSO ADDRESSING THE VAST MAJORITY OF NON BRAHMINS ON GOANET. AGREED? > b) Problems: I touched upon problems that we face as > a global community. I touched upon the problems of dispersion, dilution and social creep. CORNEL: SURELY SUCH PROBLEMS ARE NOT SPECIFIC TO THE BRAHMINS. WOULD YOU AGREE ON THIS TOO? AND BY "SOCIAL CREEP" DO YOU MEAN SOCIAL CHANGE? > c) Solut
Re: [Goanet] The International Goan Convention July 2008 - Brahmin Vol 3, Issue 742
Chris Please let me know what kind of intelligence presents private discussion between us on to a public forum like Goanet? Also, how come you forgot to mention the obscene label for me by you that aroused my ire and that Kevin Saldanha most certainly knows about. I await. Cornel --- Chris Vaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hei, Rui-- > > How dare you make the allegation that Cornel lacks a > sense of humor? I saw > at least five such charges (I might have missed some > more) in your email > below. When I last made that suggestion, Cornel > went ballistic. He > assured me very emphatically and in no unmistakable > terms that when he > lectures high up in them ivory towers among the > intelligentsia, and the > wedding halls where he is a well recognized > toastmaster that he invariably > brings down the house and the assemblage guffaws > uncontrollably at his > humor. As a matter of fact I guffaw > uncontrollably every time he brings > forth the matter of caste and castigates Bamons on > the Goanet forum. Don't > you experience the same emotion when you read his > emails? > > Give the man a break, will ya? > > Chris > > > > - Original Message - > From: "rui nuvo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: [Goanet] The International Goan > Convention July 2008 - Brahmin > Vol 3, Issue 742 > > > > Hei Cornel, > > > > 0. - I could not make out what you meant by FIRMLY > with your appeal to the > > moderator. I might have mistaken it for just > verbosity but as it is in > > upper > > case perhaps it has an added significance which > would be nice to know. > > - Normally, when I have something to say I start a > thread. The least I > > expect is that a person responding to my thread > has read and understood > > it. > > Having said that I am favourably disposed to > clarify if I can, any > > difficulties that arise. Sometimes, a serious > question even off topic will > > get my considered response. In that case I make it > clear that it is a > > serious point and that I have a view on it. > However, when I am confronted > >
Re: [Goanet] Study in Australia - A query
Dear Osborn This is just to say that I had known your brothers Joeseph and Edwin from early years in school in Mombasa. I also knew your two sisters. Joe was in touch with me a lot over his last year. He invariably indicated how proud he was of your success as a doctor and I thought I'd just share this info with you. Sincerely Cornel DaCosta --- Osborn Viegas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear JoeGoaUK, > > You made an enquiry regarding need for a deposit of > 19 lakhs Rupees imposed > by an Australian University on your nephew who > seemingly has been awarded a > scholarship. > > I am currently the Professor of Obstetrics and > Gynaecology with an > Australian University (MONASH) that has a clinical > school in Malaysia and so > I thought I could help clarify matters. From my > enquiries, such a demand is > not generally asked for but may represent a sum of > money to ensure that the > candidate is able to leave Australia after he > graduates. This of course > could change if he adopts Residency status or indeed > Australian Nationality. > Given the need for graduates in Australia, and his > youth, he would stand a > very good chance of making Australia home if he so > wished. The sum of 19 > lakhs is not excessive in Australian terms and > should only be a deposit i.e > returnable at the end of his course. > > If it is on any help, my daughter has a legal > practice (migration Law) in > Sydney and might be in a position to answer some of > your queries. You could > get her Practice details from the web on > http://www.advocateimmigration.com.au/ourpeople_KathrynViegas.html > > I hope this will be of help and, on a separate note, > thank you very much for > the series of photographs that you have given us the > opportunity to enjoy. > > Best wishes > > Professor Osborn Viegas > > > > Professor Osborn Viegas > AM, MBChB, MD(Birm), FRCOG, FRANZCOG, DA > Professor of Reproductive Health > MONASH University, Johore Bahru > MALAYSIA > >
Re: [Goanet] June 19 -- Let the Revolution Begin
Hi Eugene Because of pressures of time, we can only read some of the posts that appear on Goanet and other sites. I therefore am forced to use my delete button rather a lot. However, there are some names that I will always read but it would be invidious to name them now. However, I bet most others do so too. Yours is one of them because I invariably find much good sense in what you say. Your paragraph below is a good example of what I also believe. We tend to respond quickly and invariably without any research that others think, rather erroneously, is needed on Goanet. Let them believe what they wish. They seek something that is simply unavailable for lack of time. It is the general fund of knowledge and experience that helps one to respond---and especially when one feels resonably safe about a given topic. Indeed, JoeGoaUK could do a good analysis beyond the number of times people have responded on Goanet per month or whatever. He could note what topics tend to be addressed by different respondents. That evidence would confirm that our range inevitably tends to be small but reasonably well informed. It is also for this reason that I absolutely frown on those who suddenly raise points totally unrelated to issues on the table for discussion. In this post, you have indeed been responding to one who does this habitually. Regards Cornel --- Eugene Correia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have said before and say it again that goanet is a > forum for discussion and NOT for scholarly debate. > For me to check facts and write would take long. > Besides, the location is a problem. > What are thrown on goanet are bits of information. > Not "manufactured" but as one heard or read it. In > all probability, one could err. Hence, the need for > corrections. Do we have the luxury of time to write > from deep research? > I have no problem if JC or PC challenge what I > write. It makes for good debate...
Re: [Goanet] The Rape of Goa...as a tool to Save Goa?
Hi Bosco or any other Goanet moderators who may be around but in hiding as always! I find Rajan's material disgusting in the extreme. I hope Bosco is not going to excuse himself this time by saying " I did not read it but intend to do so later." Truly, what a farce Goanet moderation has become. Is any sensible person in charge at all? Or, is it time to have a clean sweep of the tired and weary incompetent old-timers? Cornel DaCosta --- "Rajan P. Parrikar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To Goanet - > Apropos of the latest ejaculate of Jason Keith > Fernandes - I, on the other hand, have no > hesitation in certifying the Comrade's tool > as genuine. Presumably it is his thinking tool > as well. How sad, then, that it got waylaid > and walloped by the barely literate Babush > Monserrate some weeks ago at the Taleigao > gram sabha. But not to worry. As you can > see, the Comrade is still holding on to his > tool and "thoughts" are still oozing from it. > Warm regards, > r
Re: [Goanet] Mestisos & Anglo-Indians
Hi Antonio I don't think I understand your question about colour and caste. However, I have come across those claiming to be Brahmins from people who are very fair and virtually white, to those pretty dark. Indeed, some dark ones I met had discernible African features. Amazingly, they were introduced to me as Brahmin people from Saligao, of all places! Prior to meeting them, I had assumed that they were Sidhis and about whom I had done some reading. Yes, siblings like sisters or brothers of mixed heritage can be of totally different colours---but in the final analysis, we are all descended from African roots, deemed by anthropologists (of at least one persuasion), to be from East Africa where you and I lived in more recent times! Perhaps you might kindly re-phrase your question to me for a more coherent answer. Kind regards Cornel --- Antonio Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > N,B. Cornel, I am begining to have some doubts > about Catholic casteism. > Could it be ,in fact, racialism of dark skinned > mestisos ? India still > has its dwindling Anglo-Indian population whereas > Goan mestisos have > practically disappeared.
Re: [Goanet] The International Goan Convention July 2008 - Brahmin issues Vol 3, Issue 715
he Brahmins rape and kill many thousands of Dalits and invariably get away with it because of their considerable control of the legal process. There is so much about this in research studies, journalistic reports and information in the media and it really seems as though such information has simply passed you by. 7. And did you know that the Brahmins in some parts of India are now presenting themselves as underprivileged/the new poor--demanding the benefits Constitutionally made available to categories of historically disadvantaged minorities? There is increasing evidence of Brahmin and Dalit political co-operation for Government handouts and perhaps, you might comment on this as a Brahmin who historically looked down and still do on the lower castes. It does look as though through such co-operation, Bishop Tutu's notion of forgiveness is what the Dalits are providing their historic oppressors and not as you implicitly suggest that, the Brahmins do not need the kind of kindness that they have traditionally denied to others. 8.There is much more I could say about the Brahmins but will have to do so later. However, to be absolutely fair, the Brahmins have also done good work in India. Unfortunately, this gets overlooked by the much greater record of their bad deeds. 9. You present a most peculiar proposition that there must be a co-relation between caste and educational and economic success. Yes there is some. This is because across the world over there is a co-relation between material well-being and educational achievement. As the Brahmins historically oppressed those they considered beneath them, they appropriated more then their fair share of the resources and utilised them for education etc. So, my friend, it is not caste per se that made them achievers but the material prosperity and connections they had that, helped them to achieve more than their fair share. There is increasingly a level playing field with increased democracy and Brahmin achievement cannot be better than those lower down in the artificial caste hierarchy. Consequently, it truly must be most painful for a Brahmin to be assessed and appraised in most fields by those with technical skills coming from the majority non-Brahmin population. Let me finish by indicating that some of my best friends are of Brahmin stock due to historical circumstances. I do not hold this against them in the least, as most of them, unlike you, have seen the light of day about caste abomination and definitely do not ACT LIKE BRAHMINS. More than anything else, they are economically and materially successful to preclude the need to call on any notions of caste adherence and perhaps herein lies a clue as to why you might need to emphasise ever so much that you are a Brahmin! With greater educational opportunities and material progress, the old belief in caste pedigree is overwhelmed by the reality of an increasingly meritocratic society that is also relatively transparent. The dinosaurs who still believe in hereditary caste are being undermined all the time including now through Goanet posts. Cornel DaCosta --- rui nuvo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hei Mario 1. What Gabe said was "One does not have to be a Brahmin to espouse the qualities you have mentioned;". It is a fairly reasonable proposition would you not agree. Gabe then goes on to suggest that in his view and his experience that you display the very same qualities you abhor. Perhaps you may be a Brahmin after all :))).
Re: [Goanet] The International Goan Convention July 2008 - Brahmin Issues: Vol 3, Issue 735
Hi Gabe I note what you say. However, in response to Edward and Rui who clearly celebrate caste, by objective sociological criteria, Mario would be deemed middle class. OK, mixed messages have come from him mainly in non Goanet posts re the comparative prosperity in the USA and in Britain and to which I had responded---as a poor Brit of course. However, the whole of the capitalist world is going through economic crises that impinge quite a lot on the poorer countries too but I will leave it to Mario to respond to you, if he so wishes--- especially how the Americans across the social spectrum are coping currently. I think the term "peasants" is inaccurately used in the current flurry of emails on Goanet. Peasants are the salt of the earth and I personally would never deride them. Regards Cornel --- Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > RESPONSE: According to the man, the poor in the USA > are as well off as > the middle class Europeans; go tell it to the > peasants in the USA. > > That being the case, than the middle class in the > USA would be in a > different league compared to you or me! They would > class, themselves > as the equivalent of our millionaires. So by > European standards, the > man is a millionaire, could buy you and me and have > change left over...
Re: [Goanet] The International Goan Convention July 2008 - Brahmin Issues: Vol 3, Issue 735
Hi Rui You and Edward keep trying to be clever when cleverness does not really suit you both. Let me just give you one example interspersed below: --- rui nuvo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hei Mario, > Edward suggests that if you do not understand your > own caste to which you > belong then it is highly unlikely that you will > understand class to > which you do not belong and it is time you > re-discover your place :))). CORNEL: You are imposing caste on Mario which he neither recognizes nor accepts. To do this you guys are absolutely racist with a casteist bent. > CORNEL: Mario is definitely middle class in the America to which he belongs as a national of the country with a middle class education, outlook, lifestyle, income and social acceptance among his middle class peers and aquaintances---among many other things. Isn't it time you guys stopped using peasant logic on Goanet? Cornel DaCosta PS Re another earlier post, although Edward lives in the UK, he neither understands the term middle class nor the lineage and workings of the Free Masons. My next door neighbour happens to be one of the minority Free masons in a leafy suburb of Grater London. He is also as middle class as I am by any sociological criteria one may choose.
Re: [Goanet] RE.: Malaika (My Angel ) on YouTube
Hi Francis, Ruby and Tony Thanks for so much nostalgia and info about Malaika. Fadhili Williams who wrote the song was from my small home town Mombasa where many people were familiar to each other. The dance bands then and to this day have invariably been asked to play this tune all over the world. At a university farewell reception at the end of a week-long conference in Taipei, Taiwan, in April 2004, I was staggered to hear the Taiwanese dance quartet in attendance, play and their female singer sing Malaika in Swahili and then in Chinese as beautifully as I have ever heard. The saxophonist had a tenor and an alto on the low stage and I simply could not resist joining the band for Malaika to start with and a few other well known tunes. Regards Cornel --- Francis Rodrigues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Tony, > What a wonderful and beautifully-sketched write-up. > > A few words, if I may. > > Fadhili Williams did indeed compose the lyrics to > "Malaika", but > in all probability, was not the creator of that > delightful melody. > > A few years ago, whilst researching early folk-music...
Re: [Goanet] Inside Gate, India's Good Life; Outside, the Servants' Slums
Hi Rajan and Ruby In this post, I can't figure out exactly what either of you are saying about gated communities in India. Please can you clarify? Thanks Cornel --- "Rajan P. Parrikar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To Goanet - > > >This page was sent to you by: rubygoes at > hotmail.com. > >HI BOSCO AND GOANET. IT WOULD BE NICE IF THOSE > >ON GOANET WHO ARE OPPOSED TO GATED COMMUNITIES > >READ THIS ARTICLE. LIFE IS HARD FOR SLUM DWELLERS. > >QUITE DEPRESSING. THANK YOU.
Re: [Goanet] Roque Felix Dias RIP and the Cornel Trust Factor re Jose Colaco's reference to "distinguished service" from the deceased.
Hi Bosco My question to Jose was to let us know about R.F Dias's "distinguished service" that he (Jose) wrote about. I still await an answer to that question in the light of my personal knowledge of the deceased gentleman and an account of his sinister and underhand activity against Goan nationalists on behalf of the dictatorial government of Salazar. What further disclosure would Jose want beyond my short account of the man (R.F. Dias) who was known so well by so many, as well as his deeds in the township of Mombasa, Kenya? One part of the family of the man R.F. Dias helped to incarcerate in Goa, totally unjustifiably, lives in London. I am in close touch with that family who were more than happy for me to recount what I did on Goanet because it was the truth and widely known in Mombasa. Therefore, what I have provided to date is greater than what Jose has told us about the "distinguished service" of the deceased person. All Jose's follow-up questions are just a digression/distraction from my key question as to what made Roque Felix Dias' service "distinguished" in Jose's own words? Cornel DaCosta
Re: [Goanet] Photos of Porvorim disaster (and the PhDs)
Goanetters, Does Edward desilva have to display so much utter ignorance on Goanet about those with hard earned original PhDs? Surely, Goanet deserves more credibility than the utterances of ignoramuses. Santosh Helekar spells out this point very succinctly. Cornel DaCosta --- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- On Thu, 6/12/08, edward desilva > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTION IS DONE BY SCIENTISTS. > Original > > contributors are people with practical abilities > and > > instinct, not PhD.PhD people are copy cats. > What the above post says regarding the Ph.D. degree > is quite obviously utter nonsense. The poster has > not understood what was written in the post to which > he is responding. The poster clearly does not > appreciate why some of the most capable students > have opted to seek admission into Ph.D. programs in > the world's top universities, as well as India's > premier institutions such as the Indian Institute of > Science, Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, > Indian Statistical Institute, and Tata Institute of > Social Sciences. > > At the risk of insulting the intelligence of most > Goanetters who know better, to become a fully > qualified scientist in any field today one has to > obtain a Ph.D. or equivalent degree. One cannot > become a college or university professor in most > countries without obtaining a Ph.D. or equivalent > degree. Many present-day professions require a Ph.D. > degree e.g. Clinical Psychology, Molecular Genetics > and Neuropsychology.
Re: [Goanet] LIMERICK FOR THE DAY 128 - CASTE MENTALITY
Dear Shanti This is simply brilliant and on my favourite topic too! I hope you will put your ever so original compilations into a book reasonably soon. I would be the first to purchase a copy. Cornel --- Shanti Dhoot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > CASTE MENTALITY > > It is not quite judicious, to see the mote in > another's eye > > While at the same time, the beam in one's own, deny. > > The evil of caste in India pervades every society, > > With a great deal of notoriety and variety, > > Unless you are prepared in the face of facts, to > brazenly fly. > > What we need to do is totally extirpate this evil
Re: [Goanet] Walking in the Park for an MBBS
Hi Jose Once again you excel in your habit of deviating from the issue under question to something else totally unrelated--a characteristic often commented upon by other posters--that you just go on in endless circles that simply waste time and do not get anywhere. In other words, you do have a reputation for going round in circles! Agreed? You have just done this with the issue of the PhD compared to the MBBS re effort required at the heart of Rajan's post. Believe it or not, "Sourak and Padyatra" have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion on the table. You do the same again with reference to the discussion on the need for toilets for migrant workers so as not to despoil parts of Goa where there is construction work. At absolutely no time did those who supported the need for toilets ever indicate that they wanted to make Goa one big toilet or have portaloos as tourist attractions. This is entirely your flight of fancy to digrees from the issue that was specifically on the table for discussion. In your digression you also entirely overlook the subject title. Brilliant! Cornel --- "J. Colaco < jc>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > jc: I trust you do not have the experience in > "Sourak" or > "Padyatra" which are my specialties. > > I have no reason to argue with individuals who want to convert Goa into one big Toilet or in the short term ..install Portaloos all over the > place possibly, as tourist attractions.
[Goanet] Fwd: Re: Roque Felix Dias RIP
Note: forwarded message attached. Hi Bosco I wonder if this post for publication on Goanet has gone astray. I ask only because I have had no 'rejection' notification. Incidentally, I checked out the facts that I presented in this post with the family that suffered under Roque Felix Dias in Mombasa. There was total agreement with what I wrote as fact. Cornel DaCosta
Re: [Goanet] Photos of Porvorim disaster
Dear Dr Rajan Of course you were saying that the MBBS by comparison to the PhD "is a walk in the park." I had not overlooked your point but this is nevertheless where I disagree with you and my post to Jose makes this explicit. Cornel --- "Rajan P. Parrikar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I had included the "by comparison" which you > have forgotten to cite above. Therefore, you > are disagreeing strongly with something you > allege I have written but actually haven't. >
Re: [Goanet] LIMERICK FOR THE DAY 127 - CASTE MENTALITY
Hi Shanti Thanks for keeping up the good work on exposing caste and casteism among the Goans. However, I am sure that you will have noted that, I have confined myself strictly to Catholic Goans on this issue and provided a rationale for this stance previously. Our good Goanet friend, Gilbert Lawrence, who responded to you, was informed ever so politely and clearly that, it is not logically possible to be a strident anti-casteists, and a casteist at the same time. Cleraly, plain logic does not work in every case! Nor too was he willing to be persuaded that the Catholic Church in Goa has been "hand in glove with caste for half a millennium." However, I think that, minimally we can note that, nobody seems to be quibbling with my above assertion on Goanet--at least, not for now! I would also suggest that the two PhDs I read very diligently, and still have easy access to, addressed the issue about caste as a causative factor in social discrimination among East African Goans. They were not, repeat NOT as Gilbert suggests, about "an innate jealousy mentality"---a rather strange construct of his own. If he is even remotely correct, perhaps he could opine what on earth say, Mario and I could possibly be jealous about as strident Goan anti-casteists? Moreover, we could hardly be jealous of caste that we both reject and despise so absolutely. Further, Gilbert really should not be surprised when using his own words, "educated Goans who should know better" that educated people would generally be at the forefront of exposing humbug and hypocrisy in a given society and particularly their own. Indeed, to use an old saying, "it is the role of the intellectual to criticise his own society." I would equate the word "educated" as someone engaged with "intellectual" activity and am bemused that our friend Gilbert has some difficulty in grasping what has been said repeatedly by a number of anti-casteists on Goanet that the underpinning segregationist element in caste has prevented an integrated Catholic Goan society and sadly generated a divisive one instead. Thankfully, in many respects, caste is in retreat because it can't deal with educated folk and the material advances of so many in recent times. Regards Cornel --- Shanti Dhoot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Whether it is plain jealousy or a show of casteism, > > The sad truth is that it has led to many a schism > > Between one Goan and another > > When one should treat the other as a brother. > > The point is: when will our vision avoid this narrow > prism? > > From: Gilbert Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Goanet] LIMERICK - CASTE MENTALITY > > As usual a great talent is displayed again with your > limerick on this topic. > > What the East African experience, (and some current > Goanet posts) show is the issue is not caste but of "innate jealousy mentality" even among educated Goans who otherwise should know better.
Re: [Goanet] WHAT GOANS GAVE KENYA
Hi Bosco Many thanks for the info. It is much appreciated. Regards Cornel --- Bosco D'Mello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As we continue on this thread with more disconnected > comments from the subject line > I have no further explanations to what I first > wrote. Each one reading my comments is welcome to interpret them as they like.
Re: [Goanet] Walking in the Park for an MBBS
Hi Jose I know what Rajan said, among other things, that, compared to the PhD, the "MBBS is a walk in the park". This is the specific point that I focused on as Rajan was explicitly suggesting that the PhD was considerably more demanding in rigour and effort investment than the incredibly broad requirements for an MBBS. My experience in supervising high quality PhDs in a UK university and in acting as an external examiner for the MPhil and PhD, nationally and internationally (including the Caribbean incidentally), and simultaneously noting what MBBS people have to do with examples at home, no less, provided me a close insight into what I was talking about. Am I to take it that you possibly just might have had similar experience yourself? There is absolutely no spin in what I said but by adding "in isolation" to Rajan's sentence, you could be well accused, if we bothered to do so, of putting in some spin yourself! There is no need to be astounded by what I wrote Jose. In my long UK academic career I have written in much the reasonably coherent and lucid way as I write on Goanet except for the much needed referencing etc for academic material. If my fellow academics and publishers of books and academic papers find my writing style acceptable, as well as fellow Goanetters who have commended my writing INCLUDING YOU INCIDENTALLY, your current little hair-splitting quibble with what I expressed about Dr Rajan is rather too minuscule to be concerned about as was also the same, in the recent discussion on the need for toilets in Goa that, I am sure you will recall. Cornel DaCosta --- "J. Colaco < jc>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > jc's comment: > > I submit that Rajan did NOT state that "the "MBBS is > a walk in the > park" in isolation. > > What Rajan stated was that (I am paraphrasing here > ...original > attached infra) in COMPARISON to the rigours > (rigors) of obtaining a > PhD, obtaining "the "MBBS is a walk in the park". > > I absolutely and utterly agree with Rajan.
Re: [Goanet] Photos of Porvorim disaster
Dr Rajan I have to disagree with you strongly that the "MBBS is a walk in the park". The PhD is long in depth and narrow in width generally. The MBBS is incredibly wide but as one becomes a specialist, one does focus more narrowly in a given area. Re the PhD, those in the natural sciences usually take off beyond the stage where specific research has already been undertaken---generally by the supervising professor. In contrast, I will contend that in the humanities and social sciences, the start of a study is more tenuous and problematic in defining the area of study. This is why so many never finish---they seem to wrestle with the problem all their lives without getting round to submitting the tome for assessment! Strictly speaking the PhDs are the real doctors in the literature on the professions but it is normal to refer to the medical doctor as a doctor. In the UK at least, the surgeon sheds the title of Dr for Mr, Miss, Ms or Mrs on becoming a specialist with further training and study. In general such titles are unnecessary in ordinary usage as on Goanet, unless some kind of signalling is essential in specific situations. My one small worry is that when a dentist is referred to as a doctor there can be some room for public misunderstanding but I wouldn't deny the guy his tiny bit of status from a mere prefix. Not too long there was a healthy discussion on Goanet on the use of the title Professor. Cornel --- "Rajan P. Parrikar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Furthermore - although medical doctors also use > "Dr," the effort it takes to earn the PhD degree is > several orders of magnitude greater than what is > required for a mere MBBS degree. A PhD is > expected to have both width and depth. That is, > attain a broad understanding in his general area of > study and acquire highly specialized knowledge in > his specialty area. A significant amount of > advanced > coursework is required. There are residency > requirements, qualifying & candidacy examinations, > and a final oral defense. Finally, your thesis > represents an original investigation leading to advancement of knowledge in your chosen field. Only an MBBS, by comparison, is a walk in the park.
Re: [Goanet] WHAT GOANS GAVE KENYA
Hi Bosco
Just a brief response:
--- Bosco D'Mello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please note, the Church vis-a-vis Caste
> issues has nothing to do with the International Goan
Convention in Toronto in July 2008.
CORNEL: Many thanks. What you say above has been
noted. However, at no point in my post did I even
remotely suggest that the "Church vis-a vis caste" has
anything to do with the International Goan Convention
in July 2008.
I suggested unambiguously INSTEAD that, the Roman
Catholic Church in Goa WAKES up to its half-millennium
WAYWARD WAY OVER CASTE ("BEING HAND AND GLOVE WITH
CASTE"), to make an admission of this "REPUGNANT"
(using M. Maciel's cogent term) wrongdoing and to
ideally TIME such a declaration SYMBOLICALLY at the
Goan Convention in Toronto 2008. Therefore, are you
seriously telling us Bosco that, in the unlikely but
yet possible response by the Church to this pointed
wake-up call, it would not be timely while the
Convention was at full steam? And that, the
Convention organisers, like your good self, as
Vice-Chair, no less, would pretend that any message
from the Church, heard at the Convention, would not be
an opportunity to informally celebrate the Church's
wake-up call, irrespective of whether the item of
caste was scheduled or not?
You are also wrong that caste is written out from the
Convention. It is in fact mooted (I have the email
evidence) as one of several possible discussion topics
for the early morning of Thursday 23rd July 2008
because there are indications of a demand for a topic
such as this. Therefore, if it takes place, I very
much hope that you will be able to attend! Minimally,
such a discussion, akin somewhat to what emerged
peripherally at the last Convention held in Portugal,
will receive some airing and not, willy nilly be swept
under the carpet.
You might be rather surprised to note that, because I
have already articulated so much on the topic, I have
specifically NOT requested a discussion on caste, but
rather, something else that, is currently A MAJOR
PROBLEM. Several persons anticipate supplying evidence
for such a discussion that, hopefully you will
definitely be able to attend.
> casteism has no currency at this planned event to
> bring Goans together.
CORNEL : Thanks for making your desired wish
fulfilment so crystal clear but do bear in mind that,
as long as caste features in the Goan psyche among
those embedded in it, caste and casteism will remain
like the demons above us that have to be eliminated
sooner rather than later.
Kind regards and every good wish for the success of
the International Goan Convention in July this year.
Cornel
Re: [Goanet] Photos of Porvorim disaster
Hi Donacuriosa This is just a small point but in the UK, one can earn a doctorate in the three fields you mentioned--medicine, law and theology. This is where personal (but sometimes, even if rarely, colaborative) work is undertaken on a research topic with the aim of furthering human knowledge. Yes, there is a rush of people trying to get the prefix Dr but it is best earned the hard way for reasons of credibility. Otherwise, a guy with just a first degree (let alone the second and third phase) calls himself a doctor. This is however, the way things are going and of course, there are lots of places selling bogus PhDs because of the strong market for this 'commodity'. An interesting differnce between the UK and America is that the PhD in the UK is entirely a research degree but in America, there is a taught residential component and it is for this reason, I have had American academics register for a part-time PhD in the UK with minimal attendance that is now helped by email of course. The taught professional degree such as the EdD has now established itself in the UK but is very different from the PhD. Dr Cornel DaCosta > Rajan P. Parrikar writes To Goanet -Dr. Ferdinando > dos Reis Falcão wrote:> Because nowadays everyone > likes to a Dr. prefix to their > names, like > Ph.Ds, dentists, physiotherapists, etc. Anybody who > has an earned doctorate (PhD) is wellwithin his or > her right to use the title of "Dr." But to assume > that title for an honorary doctorate is a travesty.
Re: [Goanet] The burden of Goa's past!
Hi Bernado By your logic, the Brits gave the Indians the corner shops. Oh no Bernardo. There was plenty of work but a lot of Indians opened corner shops as small entrepreneurs. Today, they own huge supermarkets and mighty business enterprises the indigenous Brits would never dream of. I take it that your logic would also say the Brits gave the Indians many billionairs like the Mithals (spelling?) the richest man/family in the UK. Come off it Bernardo, your bias is showing. Our fellow Indian brothers did not emigrate at first from Goa but have done later in significant numbers, especially to the USA. Those who could, used the Portuguese passport route legitimately to Europe and as legitimately as you did to Macau surely. So, what's your beef as an ethnic Indian yourself? And, how do you reconcile the fact that today, there is a reverse brain drain to India with room for you too. Cornel --- Bernado Colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not sure what is the purpose of this ghanti writer. > Today Portugal has taken the burden of offering > citizenship to all Goans from Sudras to Bamons and > including bharatis who faked themselves in getting > Portuguese passports. > Arre ghanti writer, Goans are at helm of things in > Portugal and not your corner shops, that's what the > brits give you in Britain. > BC
Re: [Goanet] LIMERICK FOR THE DAY 124 - CASTE MENTALITY AMONG GOANS
Hi Shanti Thanks very much for your most beautiful and insightful limerick on caste mentality among the Goans. You must know that I have confined my criticism of this issue strictly to Catholic Goans for obvious reasons--the total incompatibility between Catholic belief and caste belief that absolutely nobody on Goanet has been able to challenge or dispute for the best part of five years. Maybe, I should offer a cash prize to receive a persuasive caste rationale from any 'Catholic' Goan anywhere! However, you clearly know a great deal that, you could share further with us please when you say among other things: "...sadly it is much alive...and "it manifests itself in many subtle ways... "...how persistent its practice remains... Shanti, I am sure you could elaborate on such points equally beautifully in your forthcoming limericks by expanding on your above superb lines with concrete examples for those who persistently pretend that caste is something pretty non-existent and thus consistently sweep it under the carpet in the classic trait of Goan hypocrisy as underpinned by your classic limerick. Kind regards Cornel --- Shanti Dhoot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > CASTE MENTALITY AMONG GOANS > > One had thought this question of caste > > Was abandoned by Goans and a thing of the past, > > But sadly it is very much alive, > > Somehow it manages to survive. > > How much longer will this ugly mentality last? > > It manifests itself in many subtle ways... > > And what does one really amaze > > Is how persistent its practice remains, > > Binding many Christians too in its chains > > Who still refuse their attitudes to re-appraise.
Re: [Goanet] WHAT GOANS GAVE KENYA
Dear Mervyn It was a real pleasure to read the many interesting responses you made to dear Gilbert on the issue of what the Goans gave to Kenya. In particular, I noted your firm "repugnant" view about caste among the [Catholic] Goans in Kenya. Your view echoes mine exactly on Goanet for the past few years, and if you ever put together a historical book on the subject line above, I will be delighted to write a chapter on Caste and Club, Among the Catholic Goans--the theme of one PhD thesis in Nairobi and another similar PhD about the Goans in Kampala. These two cover Kenya and Uganda but there is much about Tanzania, and especially, Dar es Salaam in many people's memories (Tony in New York and and Mervyn in Toronto come to mind readily), and in short accounts provided on Goanet and elsewhere. However, my position now is that, hard as it may be, we should try to FORGIVE those practitioners of historical caste practises among the 'Catholic' Goans in East Africa BUT NEVER TO FORGET THOSE THAT DERIDED SO MANY, FOR SO LONG. In saying the above, I was heartened to note a private message to me from a Goan author whom we briefly discussed when we met last week---that hopefully soon, even the memory of caste among the Catholic Goans will be forgotten and clearly, we should look forward to such a day! I also want to suggest that the parochial caste issue among the 'Catholic' Goans has largely been defeated (despite some desperate revivalist attempts under the guise of "our history and culture" on Goanet), in the Goan diaspora as well as the often referred to "crab mentality" that, can have no purchase in a largely transparent meritocratic Western culture. Likewise, we can hope for change in Goa, slowly but surely, through persuasion, but also, through sharp criticism when appropriate and necessary. I am sure that, regarding Gilbert's expressed desire for solidarity among the Goans the world over, we can agree that unbending segregationist caste adherence by some has been the root cause for discord and disunity among the 'Catholic' Goans but hopefully when the long war against caste has been finally won, the winners will be magnanimous and the losers gracious to help towards Goan solidarity worldwide. In saying this, and as an ardent anti-casteist, I extend my hand of reconciliation to caste adherents to help them shed their long bondage to the man made abhorrent concept of caste, and instead, help them to embrace the great leap forward to the freedom of castelessness. To succeed in this, there is however, one other hurdle--the Roman Catholic Church in Goa that, has wittingly or unwittingly, proveably been hand in glove (my repeated view on Goanet), with caste for half a millennium. Through the Archbishop no less, the Church has to be brave and bold enough to articulate for the first time ever, its recognition and acceptance that, the evil of caste among the Catholic Goans is, to use your very cogent term, entirely "repugnant" wrong and unacceptable. Hopefully, as known avid readers of Goanet, those in the Church hierarchy in Goa will finally hear and act on this repeated and important wake-up call. And finally, without rushing people too much, and as an eternal optimist, wouldn't it be a great delight to hear some semblance of a response, to the above, from the Church hierarchy, in time for the International Goan Convention in Toronto in July 2008? Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- Mervyn & Elsie Maciel wrote: In other,'disgraceful' incidents, I understand some Goans(happily I was not a victim) were openly discriminated against because of caste. I found this situation repugnant then and have not changed my views since. We also need to rid ourselves of an almost innate jealousy mentality where we can't see a fellow Goan excel in whatever field. Instead of complimenting the individual on his/her achievements, we seem hell bent on 'bringing them down'. Happily, I hope our younger generation will consign this attitude to history.
Re: [Goanet] Basic Info. Vol 3, Issue 644 (Mario Goveia) Vol 3, Issue 662
Dear Rui Nuvo Pardon my insatiable curiosity on Goanet but I am ever so intrigued by your unusual surname Nuvo. Please, will you be kind enough to throw some light on its origins and while at it, also on your sentence below? Many thanks Cornel DaCosta --- rui nuvo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mario may be more credible with his views of the > market then on his outpourings on Brahmins :)))
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Digest, Vol 3, Issue 658
Hi Chris I hope you don't mind my coming in re your fascinating discussion with Venantius about so many exciting musicians. However, I am generally curious about your term "back home" and the one often used by Goan diasporeans who are foreign (non Indian) nationals and to all purposes, entirely at home in, and now nationals of, say the USA, Canada, Britain, Australia/NZ etc. So my question is, how much of nostalgia is there in the Goan/Indian term "back home" and perhaps we might examine what is meant when using the term "back home"? I never use such a term and therefore, wonder if I am lacking in something you have expressed as though entirely natural? Just simply curious that's all. Regards Cornel --- Chris Vaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Do try to keep me in the know of happenings back > home as when they come to > your attention.
Re: [Goanet] More reasons why Powers should not be devolved
Hi Selma Pray, who exactly do you mean in your statement below--"each and every one of us is responsible for flaunting the law..." Does it include poor me, minding my own business from some 5000 miles away from Goa? And if so, how please? Cornel --- Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The reason Goa has become a land of lawlessness is > because each and every one of us is responsible for > flaunting the law whether it be at a senior level or > to satisfy our own petty and immediate needs.
Re: [Goanet] London stinks! but Goa can easily provides porta-loos
Hi Jose Colaco I will keep this reply short, but first, I crave the moderator's indulgence to please retain the whole of your response below for the simple reason that it provides the complete answer to your latest question "would you please direct me to a post wherin Jose Colaco has singularly opposed to having more toilets made available in Goa?" Compared to the posts from me, Eugene, Luisa, Mario, Jerry, Camillo and others, yours is the singular voice of non support for toilets, as well as of jocular derision (in the 5 points below) for the idea, and those who support the idea for toilets. I understand your oppositional logic very clearly but you cannot dispute the fact that you were the only person in this discussion who did not support the suggestion for more toilets to meet the needs of migrant workers. Simultaneously, and very oddly, you argued that Goa was a toilet. Finally, if you do want to raise further questions, please do so, but do not tangentially switch to something totally unrelated to the current post issue 'on the table' i.e. about the need for toilets for migrant workers as well as for others in Goa. Kind regards Cornel --- "J. Colaco < jc>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1. Those who believe that that it is a "temporary" > situation" involving a few workers coming to some little construction work - I > wish them well > > 2. Those who believe that (like - in most parts of > the world where construction work takes place.) this "construction crew" will move to the next 'construction site" when this present job > is completed ((like- in most parts of the world where construction work takes place.) - I > wish them well. > > 3: Those who believe that the Municipality of Bombay > (now called Mumbai) with its huge revenue base - was able to provide "portable toilets" to the thousands who enter the city every day ...and stay > permanently - many right outside the the brand new > buildings - I wish them well. I also invite them to take the shortest route between the two airports in Mumbai - aka the "scenic route". > > 4. On the other hand ...it just might be an idea > that tourism did not think about. Provide a 100 (or so) toilets per city...and make them a > Tourist Attraction. > > 5. We can always invite more people to come in and > keep the Porta-Loos clean...But what if the portable toilets actually become really portable and end up as being a Bhel Puri stand > in some village. > > I suppose - we might find some Goans patronising > that bhel puri stand too. Hey ...this is not too far-fetched. Have you really taken a look > at the present Bhel Puri stands that Goans frequent > or the alleged restaurants?
Re: [Goanet] leave UK
Hi Jane Churchill Alemao, the ignoramus, is talking through his hat. My best informed estimate is that there are perhaps 35,000 adult Goans in the UK of whom the majority live in Greater London. Those coming in more recently via the Portuguese passport route have increased numbers somewhat but I doubt the overall figure is much over 35,000, and Swindon where many of them live is a good 40 miles away from central London. There is little evidence that Goans are leaving the UK although young professionals now move around globally. The older ones have deep roots here including their children, grandchildren etc. In my view, what keeps many Goans here is the intellectual stimulas of a great city like London even though we are pretty overcrowded. Yes, there is a small minority of Goans who live on the dole (the disability allowance). Some live in council housing where the rent tends to be low. The welfare state provides a safety net so that no one has to beg or really be in need. However, this safety net is exploited by an increasing number and there is evidence that sometimes, 50% of a small town may be on disability benefit. Both major parties are trying hard to tackle this racket when able-bodied people feign long-term illness. They also complain, rather often that there are too many immigrants---the very people through who's work ethic and industriousness, there is a provision of valuable taxes to pay those sitting at home! It is no accident that there is plenty of work for immigrants in general--they are often not competing with indigenous people for work. Virtually every able-bodied person on the dole could get a job tomorrow if he/she wanted one. However, this is a complex issue that I can't go into here. As many Goans came to the UK in the 1960s and 70s from East Africa, they definitely had white collar and other skills for jobs that were available in plenty. Sometimes they had savings from East Africa. Most invested in a house on a mortgage ( a loan specifically for the purchase of a home) that often was repaid in 25 years. As land is in short supply and the demand for homes high, UK homes have appreciated substantially over the years and in general, people move home to a better property every seven years thus improving their assets. Residential homes are definitely overpriced by about 30% and while there are dips in their value when the economy is less good, the steady rise in value is remarkable. There could not be a better investment but it is really hard for newcomers to get on the property ladder currently. The better off Goans (perhaps 2-3%) own homes at about £1 million and more but the majority would be in the region of £300,000 to £500,000. Some have bought second properties in different parts of the world and even in the UK. However, they will all face death duty where the ceiling is on the low side of about £350,000. Thus total assets worth £500,000 would pay a tax of 40% on £150,000---payable in about six months of a death but there are provisions to help over such a burden on the family. When there is joint ownership, the death duty is not payable until the survivor dies. Both main parties are planning to put up the ceiling considerably when death duty becomes effective. The Conservatives to £1 million and Labour to about £700,000. While this will be good for those with substantial assets, it is anathema for poorer people who get disadvantaged even more. Happy to throw some light on Churchill's idiocy but my figures above are all best estimates to provide a flavour of what goes on here, rather than provide totally accurate ones. It is important to note however, that simply multiplying UK figures by say 80 rupees to the £ provides a very exaggerated and unhelpful estimate of wealth here. This place is incredibly expensive not only to people from India but even America on a low value dollar currently and Europe is even more expensive (to Brits too) because of the strength of the Euro. Cornel PS written in haste. Please excuse the typos and oh yes, not all Goans in the UK are UK citizens as I think you stated previously. Some are Indian, American, Canadian etc. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of jane gillian rodrigues > Sent: 31 May 2008 08:14 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; goanet@lists.goanet.org > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Goanet] leave UK > Please read e-mail of rajadhyaksha dated 30 May, > 2008, given below, wherein > PWD Minister Churchill Alemao has stated:- > > "Churchill said about 10 lakh Goan population is > residing in the UK; they > have bought properties worth lakhs and crorers"
Re: [Goanet] Goa is a Toilet
Hi Tony Perhaps we should move on from this issue of the need for toilets in Goa as you suggest. After all, so many have agreed that toilets are indeed needed whether in the towns/cities and where migrant workers are to be found on construction sites. However, just one person has questioned the viability of permanent toilet provision and even the provision of porta loos or portable toilets for construction workers. I therefore think that in bringing this discussion to an end, and to be fair, we should seek Jose Colaco's rationale for being singularly opposed to having more toilets made available in Goa and especially for migrant workers who have been forced to use any open space available to them. I very much hope that the moderator will make this small concession to Jose Colaco prior to the closure of this topic. Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- Tony de Sa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Moderators, > Hasn't this thread gone on long enough < nauseam>>? > Isn't it time to call it a day on this topic? > Tony
Re: [Goanet] God or no God
Hi Eugene Atheist or theist---I have always said let us respect the sincere and deeply held beliefs of others. However, there is no harm in trying to persuade the 'other' in a reasoned and rational way. In the case of Richard Dawkins, I believe he has alienated some people unnecessarily through his somewhat arrogant Oxford presentational style---especially on TV. However, his content in the God Delusion, even if not as much in depth as I would have wished, for a humanist, does make plenty of sense to an increasing number. For those who can't get enough on religion, do have a look at The Jesus Dynasty by James Tabor. It is pretty fascinating historically and questions much of what is taken for granted in contemporary Christianity. I hope it will not be 'banned' (and TV films made of it), in Goa as was the book and film by Dan Brown: The DA Vinci Code I have the tree books mentioned above and read several reviews of Hitchens and seen him debate issues on TV but have not yet read the key book referred to above. Cornel --- Eugene Correia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Christopher Hitchens is a known atheist and his > recent book, God is Not Great,created the usual noise. I haven't read the book but a longish review of it and an interview with him. > The other book that has been a forerunner to > Hitchen's book is The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. Together, these books carry forward Darwin's theory of man's existence without the intervention of god...
Re: [Goanet] Famous Goan Cancer Surgeon Makes a Curious Discovery
Hi George, Santosh, Jose and Gabe Yes, Dr Vaidya has done us Goans proud. On some university business recently, I happened to visit his university in Dundee and was in that pleasant small Scottish city for four days. I would have definitely looked him up if the current info was available earlier. I should also like to take this opportunity to comment on a post about "men in white coats" that was inclined to emphasise alternative medicine rather strongly and deride scientific medicine. Firstly, in general, medical doctors tend not to wear white coats! That usage seems to have been taken up by status seeking technicians when working in hospitals--at least in the UK. Secondly, while alternative scientifically untested remedies may help some patients in the short term, they may do more harm than good because the toxic ingredients sometimes used, like mercury, do an inordinate degree of damage to vital human organs. But I will make some allowances when 'alternative medicine' is used by a properly qualified doctor. Thirdly, today, I do not believe any sensible person would use alternative remedies for cases of say inflamed appendix, breast and other cancers, blockages in blood supply to the heart etc even when prompted to do so by the local unqualified quack and possible medical advice on Goanet! This is where surgery following scientific procedures is likely to provide the best, if not always perfect answers. Therefore, to deride scientific medicine may be rather short-sighted and send wrong signals to people in need of proper well-tested medication. Most certainly I know of one relatively recent case in Goa where faith in, and application of, a traditionally ground poultice concoction was used for breast cancer. It delayed access to proper scientific medication and sadly killed a young woman in double quick time. In brief, although not a medical person, pardon me for getting a bit weary of the over-emphases from time to time about alternative untested therapies used by our grandmothers in the case of our many ills. Cornel DaCosta, London, UK. --- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Outstanding. Simply outstanding. Congratulations to > Dr. Vaidya. > Regards, > George > --- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Please read the following and be proud: > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/HealthSci/Ind
Re: [Goanet] Goa has become a Toilet" - Kashmiri chillies
Hi Jerry Re toilets, if Bangalore can do so well, Goa can do as well surely. Cornel --- Jerry Fernandes said: > I have been to Bangalore bus station, and believe me > the toilet there is as good as star hotels toilet, > and very clean, and urinals were free.
