Re: [h-cost] knuckle length sleeves - how to?
--- Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I make cuffed sleeves, I simply cut them on the bias, and add enough length at the wrist to turn up to make the cuff. I fully line the sleeves. That way you can wear them knuckle length *and* turned back. I don't think I left them open at the wrist either - the bias cut gives quite a bit, enough to slip your hand through unless you have very big bones. Hope that makes sense. Do you cut the lining on the bias as well? How would cutting on the bias affect the rest of the sleeve, in comparison to the usual on the grain cutting? Also, do you cut your sleeves on the true bias or on a slight bias? I'd prefer not to cut the sleeve on true bias, mainly as that wastes a lot of expensive fabric which can be used for other things. /Lena ___ NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress
The caption says that the outfit is with sash and mask, not that it is FOR a masque. Presumably the mask is the black thing in her right hand. In this period riding habits were often made with the upper half exactly like men's clothing - Pepys mentions it as a new fashion in the 1660s. Sashes were commonly worn by army officers earlier in the century, either round the waist or diagonally, and were worn by civilians to give themselves a dashing, military appearance. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] knuckle length sleeves - how to?
--- Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I haven't looked up your source, but do I gather
that you're saying the
source doesn't have knuckle-length sleeves, but
you're adding them because
you like the look for your purposes?
That's right. The Bodleian 264 sleeves are tight and
end at the wrist. I've seen images of knuckle length
sleeves from later in the 14th century, but my notes
from that lecture are safely tucked away somewhere in
my office, so I can't get any details on time period
and/or region.
My plan was to make the sleeves knuckle length ('cos I
find it stylish), and later fix the dress up for
re-enactment/living history purposes (haven't decided
yet on removing cuffs for an earlier fashion or fixing
the neckline for a later fashion).
If I were doing them for my purposes, I'd follow
clues from my source.
However,
If I were doing them just for show, and not worried
about
historically correct methods, I'd try the following:
1. Build in the flare to the sleeve
2. If that doesn't work, add a small gusset as you
describe
3. If that looks wonky, make it a separate
attachment as you describe.
Hmm, that sounds like a good way to start with the
design that requires the least amount of extra bits
and then add on if it doesn't work.
I should note that I always create a first sleeve
for someone as a mockup,
which I baste into the armhole and fit on the body,
so it would be easy to
test various options. I try not to cut into my my
real fabric for the
sleeves till I know where I'm going. I will cut with
impunity on body
pieces, but I have found so many ways to screw up
sleeves, I'd rather make
my mistakes on something I don't mind wasting. And
then it saves me time
in the long run.
Cheap mock-up fabric is your friend... :-) Normally,
this would be my way of doing it as well, but lack of
time and no knowledgeable people to help me fit
clothes (within reasonable time distance) makes it
slightly awkward, so I have to resort to alternative
methods (i.e get it right the first time).
/Lena, who finds sleeves really awkward and difficult.
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Re: [h-cost] knuckle length sleeves - how to?
At 09:03 18/01/2006, you wrote: --- Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I make cuffed sleeves, I simply cut them on the bias, and add enough length at the wrist to turn up to make the cuff. I fully line the sleeves. That way you can wear them knuckle length *and* turned back. I don't think I left them open at the wrist either - the bias cut gives quite a bit, enough to slip your hand through unless you have very big bones. Hope that makes sense. Do you cut the lining on the bias as well? How would cutting on the bias affect the rest of the sleeve, in comparison to the usual on the grain cutting? Yes, I cut the lining on the bias too. The sleeve fits and gives allowing movement. (I use Hunnisett patterns.) Also, do you cut your sleeves on the true bias or on a slight bias? I'd prefer not to cut the sleeve on true bias, mainly as that wastes a lot of expensive fabric which can be used for other things. I cut on the true bias. Depending on the shapes of your other pieces and the width of the fabric, you can often get the sleeves out of the left-overs - I am a really *mean* cutter, and seldom have much left over unless I have badly miscalculated in the first place. I have been known to piece garments, as was done in many earlier times, in order to keep fabric quantities small. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th century purses
I've been looking at one very much like purse #2! There is one almost identical in the VA, different wording and different coloured leather. I wonder if it was a kit? Kelly/Estela - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] 17th century purses I've been looking at recreating some accessories from the 17th century, and I found this great site for purses. http://www.museumofbagsandpurses.com/eng_1600.html I'm interested in numbers 3 and 6. #3 looks like it's made from a flat rectangle folded in half. Would that be correct? Could it be open on top, or would there be some sort of fastener? Does anyone have and idea what size something like this would be? #6 looks like it is made from 4 half-football shapes, probably lined, with drawstrings. There is a similar bag on the following page, (http://www.museumofbagsandpurses.com/eng_1700.html) heavily embroidered. Can anyone tell me what kind of embroidery that is? It kind of looks like cross stitch to me. Yet another in that style here: http://www.witneyantiques.com/flat.items/embroidery17lg.htm But I can't make out the type of stitches used. I suck at hand work, but I can do basic stitches if I know what they are. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] knuckle length sleeves - how to?
I am finding this discussion of knuckle length sleeve discussion to be interesting. In other cultures of this same time period or fashion development, you can see a similar extra long sleeve in development. I am thinking of the 'hoof' cuff in northern Asia at the moment. The evolvement of the Mongolian style seems to deal with the same question of cutting the sleeve with cuff and then shaping it to fit arm and hand; or to make the sleeve and add the hoof shape...to line either extension in same or contrasting color and such. Kathleen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] knuckle length sleeves - how to? In a message dated 1/17/2006 7:26:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would cut the sleeve with a shaped flare at the cuff to go over the hand, not the add on pieces. I like the look better, personally, without that extra seaming. Indeed. And lining the extension so it can be turned up if you want is also an excellent idea. You might want to add some light interfacing from the wrist down. This will keep the part over the hand from crinkling up too much and help hold the shape if you turn it up. BTWI love the look of the over this kind of sleeve. And it is a pain to wearit's supposed to be. Like dragging hems in front, it's one of those signs of leisure. One of those yes I have servants who do everything for me messages. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] warming a castle
Precisely what I meant when referring to our cottage at the museum. The fire was lit each day as we arrived; in real life it would have been going all day and perhaps, banked down, all night, so the fireplace structure would have absorbed some of the heat (though a lot went up the chimney). Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18/01/2006 02:36 wrote: From the web site I note that this house is closed during the winter, from November through late March, and so doesn't really answer the question of how warm it would be if it was lived in all year round (including the fire places going at least all winter, possibly all year round) -- especially not when visited in April only a few weeks after opening again. (Another consideration is, even when it is open, is it kept heated when tourists aren't there, or are the fires only going during business hours?) __ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress
Hi, The scarf or sashet she is wearing seems to be embroidered. Could it be a silk satin? A taffeta would be two stiff. The skirt is made to look like the fronts of gentlemens jackets, and my guess is it only is made for the looks. A lady was never to be seen in culottes, my godness, never. The sash dont have any purpose at all, just fashionable to wear it. Bjarne - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:37 PM Subject: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress Hi guys. I'm making a loose interpretation of this outfit, and I know nothing about this period: http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg Can someone tell me about the sash she's wearing? What's it made of? Did it have a purpose, or did it just look pretty? Also, the skirt appears to be divided in the center front. Is it open to reveal a petticoat, or is this a split skirt or culottes? Thanks! Tea Rose ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th century purses
Hi Dawn, I think nr 3 is open in the top. It would be made of two rectangles, and it would probably be lined. Nr. 6 is made of 4 parts. The heavily embroidered is made with cross stitches. The last one is difficult to explain. To me it seems to be made on a heavily ribbed silk. The coloured parts must just have ben stitched with whipstitches to fill out the areas where it has to be. Using the ribs as a guide. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:18 AM Subject: [h-cost] 17th century purses I've been looking at recreating some accessories from the 17th century, and I found this great site for purses. http://www.museumofbagsandpurses.com/eng_1600.html I'm interested in numbers 3 and 6. #3 looks like it's made from a flat rectangle folded in half. Would that be correct? Could it be open on top, or would there be some sort of fastener? Does anyone have and idea what size something like this would be? #6 looks like it is made from 4 half-football shapes, probably lined, with drawstrings. There is a similar bag on the following page, (http://www.museumofbagsandpurses.com/eng_1700.html) heavily embroidered. Can anyone tell me what kind of embroidery that is? It kind of looks like cross stitch to me. Yet another in that style here: http://www.witneyantiques.com/flat.items/embroidery17lg.htm But I can't make out the type of stitches used. I suck at hand work, but I can do basic stitches if I know what they are. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sergers past topics
--- Melanie Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (now Asst. Prof. of Costume Design, Eastern Michigan University) Congratulations! Joannah. _ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress
The skirt is not split. But it may be seamed in the CF...and embroidered to show it is. If she were to ride, it would be side saddle. [Imagine wearing a train like that out in the country hunting!] The sash [looks like a brocaded or embroidered silk] is in imitation of men's wearlike the whole outfit. She even wears a man's wig The coat [a justicorps] has some interesting touches. For instance, the cuffs are obviously real...really turned up and held in place with that buttoned tab thing you can clearly see. She is also wearing her stock [a long fine linen strip wound around the neck] with the ends pulled through the button hole of her justicorps, a style known as a Steinkirk. It's impossible to tell if the waistcoat is really a garment or just some type of stomacher pinned to the corset. Since everything else about this outfit looks like it came from her husband's closet, I'd go for a real waistcoat. But either way is acceptable. She has a gun in one hand, but what is in the other? The powder? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress
In a message dated 1/18/2006 4:18:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The caption says that the outfit is with sash and mask, So THAT'S what is in the other hand! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Livrustkammaren/Sture Shirts
For those whom were asking for it, here it is. The Livrustkammaren Journal of the Royal Armoury Stockholm, Vol. IV:8-9 Stureskjortorna by Anna-Maja Nylen. It's a BIG file, I have zipped it, but be prepared. I have scanned everything LARGE so that details are preserved. http://outoftheattic.homeip.net/venetian_costuming.html I'll leave it up for a week or so then take it down. If anyone misses it while catching up to email, email me off list and I'll upload it again. Now that the file has been scanned, I can get on translating. That will take me some time, I'll get back to you on it. :-) Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th century purses
Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: Size? Not very big. They were sweetbags--i.e., a kind of period sachet that you carried about to ward off nasty odors. They were popular as gifts. Here's one from the Boston Museum of Fine Arts--theirs is 9 cm by 9 cm --yes, that less than 4 inches on a side: How would you carry one of these? In the hand? On the wrist? Hung from the belt? I don't seem to recall seeing these in the art of the period. Maybe I'm just missing something. Here's a site that describes one method of making one. http://www.bellomarisco.com/sweetbag.php She seems to say these were closet potpourri sachets. I guess they're not really purses. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Livrustkammaren/Sture Shirts
At 07:59 AM 1/18/2006, you wrote: For those whom were asking for it, here it is. The Livrustkammaren Journal of the Royal Armoury Stockholm, Vol. IV:8-9 Stureskjortorna by Anna-Maja Nylen. It's a BIG file, I have zipped it, but be prepared. I have scanned everything LARGE so that details are preserved. http://outoftheattic.homeip.net/venetian_costuming.html I'll leave it up for a week or so then take it down. If anyone misses it while catching up to email, email me off list and I'll upload it again. Now that the file has been scanned, I can get on translating. That will take me some time, I'll get back to you on it. :-) Kathy Kathy, I've never had much luck with zipped files since I never know how to unzip them. PDF I can deal with. How big is it as a PDF? That I would download immediately. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress
It looks to me as if the front could be a very deep sort of box pleat, with the front edges of the pleat forming the CF of the skirt. I am not basing this on any knowledge of the period, just how the drawing looks. ~Kimberley -Original Message- From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:31:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress Hi, The scarf or sashet she is wearing seems to be embroidered. Could it be a silk satin? A taffeta would be two stiff. The skirt is made to look like the fronts of gentlemens jackets, and my guess is it only is made for the looks. A lady was never to be seen in culottes, my godness, never. The sash dont have any purpose at all, just fashionable to wear it. Bjarne - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:37 PM Subject: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress Hi guys. I'm making a loose interpretation of this outfit, and I know nothing about this period: http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg Can someone tell me about the sash she's wearing? What's it made of? Did it have a purpose, or did it just look pretty? Also, the skirt appears to be divided in the center front. Is it open to reveal a petticoat, or is this a split skirt or culottes? Thanks! Tea Rose ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Livrustkammaren/Sture Shirts
Hi, There is a lovely book published by Livrustkammaren wich is called MODELEJON. It is about mens fashion from early renaissance to 1800's Its a fabulous book packed with gorgeous pictures, big and heavy two. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] warming a castle
Well, precisely! I have been smiling indulgently at this thread - some of us actually live in the UK, y'know, and seem to manage fine ;-) Jean Karen R Bergquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote I think we are failing to take a very important issue into consideration- acclimatization (sp?). I live near Chicago and after one of our bakingly hot summers, the first time the temperature dips down near freezing (especially if it's a sudden drop) I feel the cold quite a bit. By the end of the winter season , I am laughing at the idea of 32F being cold. Earlier this week we had a day that was up above 45F and there were people out in just tee-shirts and jeans. I also recently saw a piece on one of the educational channels about a woman who trained for years to swim in extremely cold water and eventually was able to swim between Alaska and Siberia in water that the experts say should have killed her in 20 minutes- she was able to swim in it for over 2 hours and come out none the worse for the experience. I realize this is an extreme example but it shows how well the human body can adjust to various temperatures. My opinion is that if you lived in the space all year round, not only would a constantly burning fire raise the average temp, YOU'D BE USED TO IT! Just my temperature tuppence, Karen Seamstrix On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:36:55 -0800 Sharon L. Krossa [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 7:35 PM + 1/17/06, Laura Dickerson wrote: A number of years ago we visited Cothele House in Cornwall on a cold rainy April day. It's a granite and slate Tudorish house with fancy woodwork and lots of tapestries on the walls. No electric lights, no central heating. There was a blazing fire in the great hall fireplace, but unless one was standing quite near the fire, it didn't seem to help much. Dark and damp and chilly, although it was at least out of the wind. From the web site I note that this house is closed during the winter, from November through late March, and so doesn't really answer the question of how warm it would be if it was lived in all year round (including the fire places going at least all winter, possibly all year round) -- especially not when visited in April only a few weeks after opening again. (Another consideration is, even when it is open, is it kept heated when tourists aren't there, or are the fires only going during business hours?) All those layers of woolen clothes seemed like a good idea. I have no doubt this is true -- indeed, it is still true in Britain, in my experience, even with central heating... Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: drawers
Having read quite a few penny dredfuls I have heard the term before. If you wad up a pice of cloth to a wound and then remove it and unfold the cloth you will have an impresionistic flower. So blood flowers on cloth. Not sure if that is exactly what they ment in the defination. just my penny's worth jonica . Looking KP up sangue in Florios' 1611 Italian-English KP Dictionary garners me a broad variety of derivatives KP that can be applied to a woman's menstrual blood. KP Looking up menses I get a period (pardon the pun) KP term for a woman's monthly: KP Me'nstruo: a womans monethly(sic) termes, issues, KP fluxes, sheddings or flowers. Also silver(?) among KP Alchemists. KP Flowers?! -- Best regards, jlkelleymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Livrustkammaren/Sture Shirts
I wish I knew. I only know that as a whole the entire set of scans is 29 megs. I wanted to make a PDF of them, but hubby, who actually knows how to do that, is down with a virus right now. So I did the best I could with what I had. 'sides, asking the computer demi god simple questions like this is taking ones' life into ones' hands... He has little patience for my fundamental queries. Ironic it is a virus that has him crashed on the couch at the moment. ;-) Sorry, I couldn't resist the bad joke. Anyone who wants to make a pdf of them, go right ahead. Kathy I've never had much luck with zipped files since I never know how to unzip them. PDF I can deal with. How big is it as a PDF? That I would download immediately. Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] pet hair
How on earth did medieval and renaissance folks keep their velvets and wools from looking like barnyard bedding? Surely even the servants of the wealthy had better things to do than pick cat hairs off the master's gowns? I've got two lint rollers and I just can't keep up with my two ginger tabbies. And no, they're not allowed in the costumes, but the hair gets there anyway. What do the rest of you do to keep your period clothing clean? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Livrustkammaren/Sture Shirts
I wish I knew. I only know that as a whole the entire set of scans is 29 megs. I wanted to make a PDF of them, but hubby, who actually knows how to do that, is down with a virus right now. So I did the best I could with what I had. 'sides, asking the computer demi god simple questions like this is taking ones' life into ones' hands... He has little patience for my fundamental queries. Ironic it is a virus that has him crashed on the couch at the moment. ;-) Sorry, I couldn't resist the bad joke. Anyone who wants to make a pdf of them, go right ahead. Kathy I've never had much luck with zipped files since I never know how to unzip them. PDF I can deal with. How big is it as a PDF? That I would download immediately. Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: drawers
jlkelley wrote: Flowers has been slang for quite a long time, and probably has an association with flowering and fertility, fruit and childbearing. I would bet it was in use long before drawers were worn. Dawn Having read quite a few penny dredfuls I have heard the term before. If you wad up a pice of cloth to a wound and then remove it and unfold the cloth you will have an impresionistic flower. So blood flowers on cloth. Not sure if that is exactly what they ment in the defination. just my penny's worth jonica . Looking KP up sangue in Florios' 1611 Italian-English KP Dictionary garners me a broad variety of derivatives KP that can be applied to a woman's menstrual blood. KP Looking up menses I get a period (pardon the pun) KP term for a woman's monthly: KP Me'nstruo: a womans monethly(sic) termes, issues, KP fluxes, sheddings or flowers. Also silver(?) among KP Alchemists. KP Flowers?! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: drawers
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, jlkelley wrote: KP Looking up sangue in Florios' 1611 Italian-English KP Dictionary garners me a broad variety of derivatives KP that can be applied to a woman's menstrual blood. KP Looking up menses I get a period (pardon the pun) KP term for a woman's monthly: KP Me'nstruo: a womans monethly(sic) termes, issues, KP fluxes, sheddings or flowers. Also silver(?) among KP Alchemists. KP Flowers?! Having read quite a few penny dredfuls I have heard the term before. If you wad up a pice of cloth to a wound and then remove it and unfold the cloth you will have an impresionistic flower. So blood flowers on cloth. Not sure if that is exactly what they ment in the defination. I wondered if it was just an archaic spelling for flows or a related word. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: drawers
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, Dawn wrote: jlkelley wrote: Flowers has been slang for quite a long time, and probably has an association with flowering and fertility, fruit and childbearing. OED has it back to c. 1400: c1400 Rel. Ant. I. 190 A woman schal in the harme blede For stoppyng of hure flowrys. 1527 ANDREW Brunswyke's Distyll. Waters Aiij, The same water..causeth women to have her flowres, named menstruum. 1662 R. MATHEW Unl. Alch. 106 It helpeth the stopping of the Flowers. 1741 in CHAMBERS Cycl. 1859 TODD Cycl. Anat. V. 666/2 The French term fleurs and the English flowers are now fallen into disuse. Of more interest, the etymology reads: Obs. [After F. fleurs: but this is regarded by French scholars as a corruption of flueurs: see FLUOR.] Fluor is defined as 1. A flow or flowing; a flux, stream. And it's also spelled that way rather far back: 1621 AINSWORTH Annot. Pentat. Gen. xviii. 11 The custome (or manner) of women, for the ordinary and naturall course of the body, or fluors. 1662 TRAPP Comm. 2 Sam. xi. 4 Her monethly fluors. 1754-64 SMELLIE Midwif. I. 110 The Fluor albus is no other than this Mucus discharged in too great quantity. In other words, the term for flows was a near-homonym for flowers and listerners could easily assume the two words were the same. So the original meaning probably had nothing to do with fertility, fruit, and childbearing, though I wouldn't be surprised if this speculative backformation made the term flowers seem reasonable to some users. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pet hair
I don't! I have a white cat and a black cat and between the two of them, they can hair up ANYTHING. I've got a lint brush (works better for me than the rollers) which works well on everything but fulled wool. I keep meaning to try vacuuming my fulled wool, but the vacuum is such a nuisance to get out that I never do. I'd love to have a quick fix, too. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress
OK, how are you guys seeing this dress? All the link brings up for me is an ad for Karen Augusta. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Cap of Maintenance
Might anyone here have a pattern for an SCA Pelican cap of maintenance they'ld be willing to share? And what color is it usually? Thank you for your help. Arlys ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Cap of Maintenance
Hi Arlys-- The cap is usually some shade of red. The look of the cap generally is reflected by the persona: eg: a 16th C woman might have a red caul. Someone I know with a German medieval persona has a small knitted cap. Depends on what you want. I don't have a cap of maintenance-- never got one. Monica (In the SCA: Baroness Dame Catriona MacDuff ) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Cynthia J Ley Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Cap of Maintenance Might anyone here have a pattern for an SCA Pelican cap of maintenance they'ld be willing to share? And what color is it usually? Thank you for your help. Arlys ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] pet hair
Reverse roll tape on your hand so the sticky side is out. Duct tape or that clear packing tape works pretty well. Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of E House Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:01 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet hair I don't! I have a white cat and a black cat and between the two of them, they can hair up ANYTHING. I've got a lint brush (works better for me than the rollers) which works well on everything but fulled wool. I keep meaning to try vacuuming my fulled wool, but the vacuum is such a nuisance to get out that I never do. I'd love to have a quick fix, too. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] warming a castle
Hi, I'm new to this group. Re: warming A metal stove cools off quickly. I understand that's why Europeans have those Tile Stoves. It takes long to heat, but also radiates heat for a long time. The trick is to keep it hot/warm for maximum comfort levels in the building. Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Jan 17, 2006, at 10:27 PM, REBECCA BURCH wrote: Well, I don't have any experience heating a stone castle, but when we lived near Diamond Lake (in the Cascade Mountains of the Pacific Northwest) we heated a 3 bedroom house with only one wood fired stove. There were still snow patches around in August!! The only way to be reasonably comfortable was to NEVER let the fire go completely out and wear lots of layers. If we did have occasion to leave for more than a day or so, the core of the house would be so cold that it would take a week or more to warm back up. The metal of the stove would radiate for about half a day, but more than that and you were sunk. Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Livrustkammaren/Sture Shirts
I made PDF files with CorelDraw. I can paste images into a page format, then export it as PDF. You might want to download a trila version to see if it is what you might use yourself. Then if you like it buy the full version. PageMaker is similar and is used for text files such as desktop publishing. Illustrator is a graphics file that can be used to make PDF files and image files. Try some of these. You might find one you like. I learned CorelDraw after applyin for a job. I didn't know that program so they loaned it to me. Now I use it all the time. It is very simple to use and lots on online help if you need it. I have learned many programs for graphics. It seems every place I try to work has it's own program that they prefer. I have to know some things in each and learned more on my own. I guess I'm doing something wrong that way. I still have no job using my skills in art. So I'm getting my teacher certification for elementary education as a back-up. Just my opinion. - Original Message - From: Kathy Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume List h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Livrustkammaren/Sture Shirts I wish I knew. I only know that as a whole the entire set of scans is 29 megs. I wanted to make a PDF of them, but hubby, who actually knows how to do that, is down with a virus right now. So I did the best I could with what I had. 'sides, asking the computer demi god simple questions like this is taking ones' life into ones' hands... He has little patience for my fundamental queries. Ironic it is a virus that has him crashed on the couch at the moment. ;-) Sorry, I couldn't resist the bad joke. Anyone who wants to make a pdf of them, go right ahead. Kathy I've never had much luck with zipped files since I never know how to unzip them. PDF I can deal with. How big is it as a PDF? That I would download immediately. Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It's never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pet hair
I don't think they cared. Animals were always in the house. Ever heard of a 3Dog Night? That meant the dogs slept on the bed to help heat the bed. So they wouldn't have worried about the air, would be my guess. With servants to do such mundaine ork, maybe they did the tiddying up of velvets and woolens. - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] pet hair How on earth did medieval and renaissance folks keep their velvets and wools from looking like barnyard bedding? Surely even the servants of the wealthy had better things to do than pick cat hairs off the master's gowns? I've got two lint rollers and I just can't keep up with my two ginger tabbies. And no, they're not allowed in the costumes, but the hair gets there anyway. What do the rest of you do to keep your period clothing clean? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Cap of Maintenance
I am not familar with that cap. What does one look like? - Original Message - From: monica spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:25 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cap of Maintenance Hi Arlys-- The cap is usually some shade of red. The look of the cap generally is reflected by the persona: eg: a 16th C woman might have a red caul. Someone I know with a German medieval persona has a small knitted cap. Depends on what you want. I don't have a cap of maintenance-- never got one. Monica (In the SCA: Baroness Dame Catriona MacDuff ) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Cynthia J Ley Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Cap of Maintenance Might anyone here have a pattern for an SCA Pelican cap of maintenance they'ld be willing to share? And what color is it usually? Thank you for your help. Arlys ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] pet hair
When I was young, my mom had a clothes brush which had metal bristles. She loved it. Maybe it worked better at removing hair, etc. I don't even know if you can get those anymore. Young lovers seek perfection, Old lovers learn the art of sewing shreds together And of seeing beauty in a multiplicity of patches - How To Make An American Quilt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Becky Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:11 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet hair I don't think they cared. Animals were always in the house. Ever heard of a 3Dog Night? That meant the dogs slept on the bed to help heat the bed. So they wouldn't have worried about the air, would be my guess. With servants to do such mundaine ork, maybe they did the tiddying up of velvets and woolens. - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] pet hair How on earth did medieval and renaissance folks keep their velvets and wools from looking like barnyard bedding? Surely even the servants of the wealthy had better things to do than pick cat hairs off the master's gowns? I've got two lint rollers and I just can't keep up with my two ginger tabbies. And no, they're not allowed in the costumes, but the hair gets there anyway. What do the rest of you do to keep your period clothing clean? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress
E House wrote: OK, how are you guys seeing this dress? All the link brings up for me is an ad for Karen Augusta. Try this http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/leloirX2.htm It's the 7th image down, Full hunting dress... 1692... Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Cap of Maintenance
The cap is a piece of regalia for the Order of the Pelican, an SCA Service (peerage) award. If you are not in the SCA, it probably not well known. As I said, it varies with the persona/ time period. Monica/ Catriona in SCA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Becky Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cap of Maintenance I am not familar with that cap. What does one look like? - Original Message - From: monica spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:25 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cap of Maintenance Hi Arlys-- The cap is usually some shade of red. The look of the cap generally is reflected by the persona: eg: a 16th C woman might have a red caul. Someone I know with a German medieval persona has a small knitted cap. Depends on what you want. I don't have a cap of maintenance-- never got one. Monica (In the SCA: Baroness Dame Catriona MacDuff ) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Cynthia J Ley Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Cap of Maintenance Might anyone here have a pattern for an SCA Pelican cap of maintenance they'ld be willing to share? And what color is it usually? Thank you for your help. Arlys ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pet hair
Does it not occur that some people do not worry about such things as pet furr unless you are out and about among people to whom such a vestige of barnyard appearance is a problem? Even in this modern age one will know or remember that when going here or there may make a difference as to what one might wear? Kathleen - Original Message - From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pet hair I don't! I have a white cat and a black cat and between the two of them, they can hair up ANYTHING. I've got a lint brush (works better for me than the rollers) which works well on everything but fulled wool. I keep meaning to try vacuuming my fulled wool, but the vacuum is such a nuisance to get out that I never do. I'd love to have a quick fix, too. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pet hair
I developed a tolerance for all the cat hair jokes I get from SCA friends. ;o) Basically, I do my best to keep the period clothing as far away from easy feline access as possible, and if I'm going to be sitting on something in the house when garbed, I make sure I've vacuumed, etc. I have 4 cats, with every possible color combination (one flame-point siamese, one half Maine Coon, one shaggy calico, and one ginger), so it doesn't do me much good to look for compatible colors. ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] pet hair How on earth did medieval and renaissance folks keep their velvets and wools from looking like barnyard bedding? Surely even the servants of the wealthy had better things to do than pick cat hairs off the master's gowns? I've got two lint rollers and I just can't keep up with my two ginger tabbies. And no, they're not allowed in the costumes, but the hair gets there anyway. What do the rest of you do to keep your period clothing clean? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] pet hair
I usually use a strip or two from a cheap roll of packing tape, but when I have nothing close to hand, I will very lightly dampen my hands in the nearest sink and gently rub the fur away. This seems to work with most fabrics. The trick is to get your hands just moist enough it grips the hair, but not so much you leave a hand print on yourself. :-) This has the added bonus of rubbing away any wrinkles and static in your garment too. Sheridan (domestic servant to a white/orange/grey calico and a black cat) - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:52 PM Subject: [h-cost] pet hair How on earth did medieval and renaissance folks keep their velvets and wools from looking like barnyard bedding? Surely even the servants of the wealthy had better things to do than pick cat hairs off the master's gowns? I've got two lint rollers and I just can't keep up with my two ginger tabbies. And no, they're not allowed in the costumes, but the hair gets there anyway. What do the rest of you do to keep your period clothing clean? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress
Oooh, fun images! In the hunting costumes the ladies wear their hair in the rugged and manly long flowing curls. Has anyone ever seen this hairstyle worn with feminine style dress for this time period? I also like the high heeled shoes with the ice skates strapped on. Cool! -Carol http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/leloirX2.htm It's the 7th image down, Full hunting dress... 1692... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress
In a message dated 1/18/2006 11:48:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oooh, fun images! In the hunting costumes the ladies wear their hair in the rugged and manly long flowing curls. Has anyone ever seen this hairstyle worn with feminine style dress for this time period? * In the particular example of this Hunting Costume, it definitely has a man's look. I've never seen hair worn down quite like that with the usual female dress. Never with a Mantua. You do get a sorta modification of the cocker spaniel look popular previously, usually coupled with the more conservative off the shoulder, boned bodice gowns still being worn for more formal occasions in the late 1600s. I once saw a painting of 3 ladies in waiting dressed as muses. All had the off the shoulder boned look with very horizontal hair dos with long loose curls, coming from the nape of the neck on 2 of the ladies and from the ends! of the horizontal main do on one. a very strange [and wonderful] do. But again, a costume look. A 17th century interp of ancient Greece. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] paned sleeves for Elizabethan - question
I've just cut out my paned sleeves and am planning to put a large gold bead at each join - but am wondering what is normally done with the underarm seam - do people join this seam or pane it as well? And if paned, do you sew a bed to match the rest of the sleeve or leave just plain? The dress is a ballgown - so people will see under the arm. I make Irish dance costumes - so know that beads under arms can tear fabric of the dress - so am naturally very cautious. Many thanks, Aylwen Garden ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
