Re: [hlcoders] Player position and view direction
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] in_main.cpp: CInput::CreateMove This function fills out the members of a CUserCmd structure which represents the player's input (regardless of the type of input device), the input is then sent to the server and processed by game movement to clip the player against the world, etc. The delta for movement is broken into components like this, forwardmove, sidemove, upmove. viewangles is the new viewangles from the input device (not a delta - I don't think) Regards, Paul On Jan 31, 2008 1:34 PM, Timothy Chilvers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hey all, I'm coding a modification for Source to play it in a VR system with motion capture as input. I've got the motion capture coded as far as a pair of vectors, one for the change in position since the last update and one for the change in viewing direction as a Euler angle. I'm having a problem regarding where to actually implement this change in the Source source (You guys must get tired of that, but it makes me smile...), so if anyone could give me a nudge in the right direction I'd be most appreciative. /Chilv -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Player position and view direction
So you have the two vectors coming in on the client machine correct? To get the best movement out of your information would be best to process it into a CUserCmd which would be sent to the server and then would run through the gamemovement code which would ensure certain constraints and this would also make it so that the player still moves like being controlled normally. I believe the CUserCmd has a support for two different movement vectors, one for forward movement and one for sidestepping movement which when combined in varying amounts create a direction of movement in 360degrees. It also has a viewangles member which you could set to the current player's angles plus your new change in angles. The CHLClient::CreateMove(...) is the starting point of CUserCmd creation, processing and Sending to the server. Somewhere in this would be the best place to put it. My personal thoughts are to put it in CInput::CreateMove(...). Because in there you will see that there are functions for processing the players data to generate Forward, Side Movement, etc. I think just replacing those function calls with calls to your own functions to generate values based on the VR would work. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Chilvers Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 1:34 PM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlcoders] Player position and view direction -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hey all, I'm coding a modification for Source to play it in a VR system with motion capture as input. I've got the motion capture coded as far as a pair of vectors, one for the change in position since the last update and one for the change in viewing direction as a Euler angle. I'm having a problem regarding where to actually implement this change in the Source source (You guys must get tired of that, but it makes me smile...), so if anyone could give me a nudge in the right direction I'd be most appreciative. /Chilv -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player position and view direction
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Beat you to the punch! Regards, Paul On Jan 31, 2008 2:10 PM, Christopher Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you have the two vectors coming in on the client machine correct? To get the best movement out of your information would be best to process it into a CUserCmd which would be sent to the server and then would run through the gamemovement code which would ensure certain constraints and this would also make it so that the player still moves like being controlled normally. I believe the CUserCmd has a support for two different movement vectors, one for forward movement and one for sidestepping movement which when combined in varying amounts create a direction of movement in 360degrees. It also has a viewangles member which you could set to the current player's angles plus your new change in angles. The CHLClient::CreateMove(...) is the starting point of CUserCmd creation, processing and Sending to the server. Somewhere in this would be the best place to put it. My personal thoughts are to put it in CInput::CreateMove(...). Because in there you will see that there are functions for processing the players data to generate Forward, Side Movement, etc. I think just replacing those function calls with calls to your own functions to generate values based on the VR would work. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Chilvers Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 1:34 PM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlcoders] Player position and view direction -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hey all, I'm coding a modification for Source to play it in a VR system with motion capture as input. I've got the motion capture coded as far as a pair of vectors, one for the change in position since the last update and one for the change in viewing direction as a Euler angle. I'm having a problem regarding where to actually implement this change in the Source source (You guys must get tired of that, but it makes me smile...), so if anyone could give me a nudge in the right direction I'd be most appreciative. /Chilv -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Does this mean, you would need to arrange the bouncd box lower? IE - - - - - - -- - - - - | Player Prone | |_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| Has other players would Bounce off the BOX when trying to jump over the proned player: --- | | | |0 | | -|- |---o || |--| / \ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Fods wrote: Does this mean, you would need to arrange the bouncd box lower? Yes. The crouched bounding box is lower than the standing bounding box. The prone bounding box should be lower than the crouched bounding box (after all, a prone player should be able to crawl under things that a crouched player could not)... +-+ | | | | | | +-+ | | | | | | | |+-+ +-+ +-++-+ standing crouchedprone -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Correct. I have the bounding box lower then the crouching bounding box. However because the box does no move, that could become a when a player turns while in the prone position as his feet could shoot out the other sides of a wall. Having the bound box big enough for the player to be able to turn probably isn't the way to go either because in smaller spaces, you start to jerk and get stuff. What I would like to do, is what happens in the map sdk_vehicles map with the jeep. When the player is driving jeep, if the player would turn the bound box gets a little bigger while the player turns then gets small again. (Really have to see it in 3rd person view to get an idea of what I am talking about) If I can figure out how they did the bounding box for the jeep, I will use this just for prone players. Which makes sense because a prone player has more contact on the ground, then someone standing. Maybe Yahn or someone can point me into the right direction of how to implement the vehicle bounding box onto a player? If you get a chance botman check out the sdk_vehicles map in 3rd person and look at how that bounding box works. This would be ideal for a prone player. r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: Jeffrey botman Broome [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player Position Fods wrote: Does this mean, you would need to arrange the bouncd box lower? Yes. The crouched bounding box is lower than the standing bounding box. The prone bounding box should be lower than the crouched bounding box (after all, a prone player should be able to crawl under things that a crouched player could not)... +-+ | | | | | | +-+ | | | | | | | |+-+ +-+ +-++-+ standing crouchedprone -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
r00t 3:16 wrote: I have been playing around with the player position for my prone. I believe that collision boxes (used around players) are axis aligned in Half-Life2 (as they were in Half-Life1). The collision box DOES NOT rotate as the player rotates. If you made this be the player collision box when the player was prone (head facing North, feet facing South)... +---+ | o | |/|\| | | | |/ \| +---+ ...here is what you would see when the player turn 90 degrees to the left... +---+ |/ |/ 0| |\ |\ | | +---+ ...notice the bounding box DOES NOT rotate along with the player. If you are going to do a prone position you would make a bounding box that looks like this... +-+ |o| | /|\ | ||| | / \ | +-+ ...which means you can't have the left or right side of your body be right up against colliding geometry in the level (axis aligned bounding boxes are a pain, aren't they?). -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Hmm, I think I understand what your saying. What if the movement left / right was limited to like 5 degrees? If they moved 5 degrees right or left the entire body would move? (sorry i just don't understand the axis aligned boxes yet ) r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: Jeffrey botman Broome [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player Position r00t 3:16 wrote: I have been playing around with the player position for my prone. I believe that collision boxes (used around players) are axis aligned in Half-Life2 (as they were in Half-Life1). The collision box DOES NOT rotate as the player rotates. If you made this be the player collision box when the player was prone (head facing North, feet facing South)... +---+ | o | |/|\| | | | |/ \| +---+ ...here is what you would see when the player turn 90 degrees to the left... +---+ |/ |/ 0| |\ |\ | | +---+ ...notice the bounding box DOES NOT rotate along with the player. If you are going to do a prone position you would make a bounding box that looks like this... +-+ |o| | /|\ | ||| | / \ | +-+ ...which means you can't have the left or right side of your body be right up against colliding geometry in the level (axis aligned bounding boxes are a pain, aren't they?). -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Actually cause things brings up another point, now that you show me this. I am going to be making a lean left / right also. This would basically the same case when leaning and the bounding box would need to be big enough to to the side the lean on. Something like. Lean left +--+ | 0 | | /|\| | | | | /\ | +--+ Lean Right +---+ | 0| | /|\ | | || | /\| +---+ r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: Jeffrey botman Broome [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player Position r00t 3:16 wrote: I have been playing around with the player position for my prone. I believe that collision boxes (used around players) are axis aligned in Half-Life2 (as they were in Half-Life1). The collision box DOES NOT rotate as the player rotates. If you made this be the player collision box when the player was prone (head facing North, feet facing South)... +---+ | o | |/|\| | | | |/ \| +---+ ...here is what you would see when the player turn 90 degrees to the left... +---+ |/ |/ 0| |\ |\ | | +---+ ...notice the bounding box DOES NOT rotate along with the player. If you are going to do a prone position you would make a bounding box that looks like this... +-+ |o| | /|\ | ||| | / \ | +-+ ...which means you can't have the left or right side of your body be right up against colliding geometry in the level (axis aligned bounding boxes are a pain, aren't they?). -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
r00t 3:16 wrote: Hmm, I think I understand what your saying. What if the movement left / right was limited to like 5 degrees? If they moved 5 degrees right or left the entire body would move? (sorry i just don't understand the axis aligned boxes yet ) Axis aligned means that the edges of the box ALWAYS line up with the X Y axis in the map (the box doesn't rotate when the player rotates). For example, you can't have the collision box around a player look like this (top down view)... __ / /^ / / | / / | / / | /_/| x-axis y-axis ...since the sloped side doesn't lie along the X axis (even if the player was rotated 15 degrees clockwise). -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
r00t 3:16 wrote: Actually cause things brings up another point, now that you show me this. I am going to be making a lean left / right also. This would basically the same case when leaning and the bounding box would need to be big enough to to the side the lean on. In most games, leaning is accomplished by sliding the camera out to the right (when leaning right) or the left (when leaning left) and having an animation that tilts the player's body to the right (or left). Your animator would have to make sure that the player's hit boxes don't extend outside the player's collision box when this lean animation is taking place (assuming the Half-Life2 still uses collision box detection first before trying to check for hit box collisions). If the animation leans outside of the collision box, the hit boxes will follow the bone positions in the skeletalmesh and people will shoot at those bones (head, right arm, etc), but since the bones are outside the collsion box, the player won't be hit (you have to hit the big player collision box first, before it checks to see which hit box you have hit). As long as the width of your player collision box is wide enough so that none of the animations will extend outside the collision box when those animations are played, players should be able to be hit when they are leaning left or right. -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
I haven't done lean yet for Source but how I did in the UT2004 version of my mod was similar to what you said. To prevent players from leaning into walls(and thus seeing through them etc) was to do a trace when trying to lean and while leaning. As far as 3rd person, I did the lean animation in code, rotating from a spine bone, I'm sure this can be done for Source as well with some set up in the QC before compiling. It's always best to do as much as you can with out involving artists ;). -- www.neotokyohq.com Quoting Jeffrey \botman\ Broome [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In most games, leaning is accomplished by sliding the camera out to the right (when leaning right) or the left (when leaning left) and having an animation that tilts the player's body to the right (or left). ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Is there a console command to be able to see this bounding box? So you can see exactly where it is located on the player, as well as other objects? r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: Justin Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player Position I haven't done lean yet for Source but how I did in the UT2004 version of my mod was similar to what you said. To prevent players from leaning into walls(and thus seeing through them etc) was to do a trace when trying to lean and while leaning. As far as 3rd person, I did the lean animation in code, rotating from a spine bone, I'm sure this can be done for Source as well with some set up in the QC before compiling. It's always best to do as much as you can with out involving artists ;). -- www.neotokyohq.com Quoting Jeffrey \botman\ Broome [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In most games, leaning is accomplished by sliding the camera out to the right (when leaning right) or the left (when leaning left) and having an animation that tilts the player's body to the right (or left). ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:26:46 -0500, r00t 3:16 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a console command to be able to see this bounding box? So you can see exactly where it is located on the player, as well as other objects? http://www.valve-erc.com/srcsdk/console/developer_console.html Check some of the cl_ or r_ commands. Jeffrey bortman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Hehehe, Bortman! (sorry) jeff broome wrote: Jeffrey bortman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Ian Tyrrell wrote: Hehehe, Bortman! (sorry) Yah! Bort! Bort! Bort! (hey, I can't type for shit. i've been at work 65 hours this week already and it's not even Friday yet). Crunch time sucks! Mind thinking not clearly. Sleep imminent. -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
ent_absbox player On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:26:46 -0500, r00t 3:16 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a console command to be able to see this bounding box? So you can see exactly where it is located on the player, as well as other objects? r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: Justin Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player Position I haven't done lean yet for Source but how I did in the UT2004 version of my mod was similar to what you said. To prevent players from leaning into walls(and thus seeing through them etc) was to do a trace when trying to lean and while leaning. As far as 3rd person, I did the lean animation in code, rotating from a spine bone, I'm sure this can be done for Source as well with some set up in the QC before compiling. It's always best to do as much as you can with out involving artists ;). -- www.neotokyohq.com Quoting Jeffrey \botman\ Broome [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In most games, leaning is accomplished by sliding the camera out to the right (when leaning right) or the left (when leaning left) and having an animation that tilts the player's body to the right (or left). ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Ty, I had to go do some reading up on axis bounding hitboxes :P Thanks for the link. r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: jeff broome [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player Position On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:26:46 -0500, r00t 3:16 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a console command to be able to see this bounding box? So you can see exactly where it is located on the player, as well as other objects? http://www.valve-erc.com/srcsdk/console/developer_console.html Check some of the cl_ or r_ commands. Jeffrey bortman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Nevermind im an idiot lol the bound box just needs to be big enough to hold the prone player no matter what direction they turn. As the box does not rotate with them (thought it did sorry) I just need to make it large enough to fit the player while prone r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: Jeffrey botman Broome [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player Position r00t 3:16 wrote: Actually cause things brings up another point, now that you show me this. I am going to be making a lean left / right also. This would basically the same case when leaning and the bounding box would need to be big enough to to the side the lean on. In most games, leaning is accomplished by sliding the camera out to the right (when leaning right) or the left (when leaning left) and having an animation that tilts the player's body to the right (or left). Your animator would have to make sure that the player's hit boxes don't extend outside the player's collision box when this lean animation is taking place (assuming the Half-Life2 still uses collision box detection first before trying to check for hit box collisions). If the animation leans outside of the collision box, the hit boxes will follow the bone positions in the skeletalmesh and people will shoot at those bones (head, right arm, etc), but since the bones are outside the collsion box, the player won't be hit (you have to hit the big player collision box first, before it checks to see which hit box you have hit). As long as the width of your player collision box is wide enough so that none of the animations will extend outside the collision box when those animations are played, players should be able to be hit when they are leaning left or right. -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
ok now that I can see what the bound box looks like. Instead of change the player from | to ___ I think the bound box needs to be change. Basically if you go into the game and type cl_ent_absbox 1 It will should you the bounding box while standing. That is basically what I need for when the player is prone. Currently (if you go crouch) I have something similar to the crouch probably a little smaller actually. If the bounding box needs to be around the entire player, this box will be huge unless I can rotate it . r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: Jeffrey botman Broome [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player Position Ian Tyrrell wrote: Hehehe, Bortman! (sorry) Yah! Bort! Bort! Bort! (hey, I can't type for shit. i've been at work 65 hours this week already and it's not even Friday yet). Crunch time sucks! Mind thinking not clearly. Sleep imminent. -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Position
Actually I think I found maybe a possible solution to this. If you load the map sdk_vehicles they change the box as the vehicle moves around, probably will need to do something similar. r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: r00t 3:16 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player Position ok now that I can see what the bound box looks like. Instead of change the player from | to ___ I think the bound box needs to be change. Basically if you go into the game and type cl_ent_absbox 1 It will should you the bounding box while standing. That is basically what I need for when the player is prone. Currently (if you go crouch) I have something similar to the crouch probably a little smaller actually. If the bounding box needs to be around the entire player, this box will be huge unless I can rotate it . r00t 3:16 CQC Gaming www.cqc-gaming.com - Original Message - From: Jeffrey botman Broome [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player Position Ian Tyrrell wrote: Hehehe, Bortman! (sorry) Yah! Bort! Bort! Bort! (hey, I can't type for shit. i've been at work 65 hours this week already and it's not even Friday yet). Crunch time sucks! Mind thinking not clearly. Sleep imminent. -- Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
