[IAEP] Marcel Minnaert

[Tony Anderson]

While at the iRods Userr Group Meeting at the University of Utrecht, I 
found this on the wall of the Minnaert building:


"Aren't most children's games basically an excellent series of science 
experiments?"


            Marcel Minnaert (1893-1970)

Tony

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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 129, Issue 26

[Tony Anderson]

Perhaps it would be more appropriate to discuss how SugarLabs has been 
able to use gitHub to manage the GTK transformation of the Sugar 
activities.  or to focus on the work of one project in GSOC or GCI. I 
would hope our goal from the session is to attract volunteers to support 
the effort.


Tony

On 12/25/18 5:00 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Pycon Cleavland 2019 Poster Session (IQRA MUHAMMAD)
2. Re: Pycon Cleavland 2019 Poster Session (Walter Bender)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 16:33:01 +0500
From: IQRA MUHAMMAD 
To: iaep 
Cc: samson goddy , Samson Goddy

Subject: [IAEP] Pycon Cleavland 2019 Poster Session
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi!

We have been working on this idea to present a Sugar Labs project at the
Poster session of Pycon Cleveland 2019. The PyCon 2019 conference, which
will take place in Cleveland, is the largest annual gathering for the
community using and developing the Open-Source Python programming language.
It would be a great opportunity to present a Sugar Labs Project at the
event and this will increase the outreach and a great chance to let people
know more about Sugar Labs.We are keen to have your suggestions on this and
also wish to discuss which Sugar Labs project would be appropriate to be
presented in a Poster Session in Pycon Cleveland 2019. It would be great,
if you could take out some time to give us some ideas on which Sugar Labs
project can we present for the poster session. The link below shows some of
the past projects presented in the Poster Session of Pycon 2018:

https://us.pycon.org/2018/schedule/posters/list/

Best Regards,
Iqra Muhammad
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--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 11:06:42 -0500
From: Walter Bender 
To: IQRA MUHAMMAD 
Cc: iaep , samson goddy
,  Samson Goddy 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Pycon Cleavland 2019 Poster Session
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 6:33 AM IQRA MUHAMMAD <
iqra.muhamma...@ce.ceme.edu.pk> wrote:


Hi!

We have been working on this idea to present a Sugar Labs project at the
Poster session of Pycon Cleveland 2019. The PyCon 2019 conference, which
will take place in Cleveland, is the largest annual gathering for the
community using and developing the Open-Source Python programming language.
It would be a great opportunity to present a Sugar Labs Project at the
event and this will increase the outreach and a great chance to let people
know more about Sugar Labs.We are keen to have your suggestions on this
and also wish to discuss which Sugar Labs project would be appropriate to
be presented in a Poster Session in Pycon Cleveland 2019. It would be
great, if you could take out some time to give us some ideas on which Sugar
Labs project can we present for the poster session. The link below shows
some of the past projects presented in the Poster Session of Pycon 2018:

https://us.pycon.org/2018/schedule/posters/list/

Best Regards,
Iqra Muhammad

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The Sugar Desktop and the majority of the Sugar activities are written in
Python, so it would make sense to focus there. (Sugarizer and Music Blocks
are JavaScript and hence would not be appropriate topics for this venue.)

To me the thing that is most interesting is the scaffolding we built into
Sugar to expose the underlying Python code to our users (e.g., view source)
and to encourage them to explore on their own (the copy mechanism that
gives them them their own copy of a an activity to modify, Pippy, which is
a Python playpen and can be used to create new Sugar activities, and Turtle
Blocks, that provides a Python version of anything they write in the Logo
block language. Also, the IRC activity, which invites newbie developers to
follow the discussions of seasoned developers. All of these are topics I
touched upon in my 2013 talk at PyCon.

regards.

-walter




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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 129, Issue 15

[Tony Anderson]

Thanks James for this frank statement. 'Involved' means a software 
developer who works according to SugarLabs gitHub procedures and 
communicates by sugar-devel. Those who are users of Sugar and dealing 
daily with the reality of its benefits and limitations are not involved 
but merely 'busy'.


It is ironic that this thread began from the efforts of 'uninvolved' 
Caryl Bigenho to recruit Sugar Labs participation in Scale.


Tony


On 12/21/18 11:02 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:04:15 +1100
From: James Cameron
To:iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] SCaLE 17X March7 -10, 2019
Message-ID:<20181221210414.gb5...@laptop.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thanks Alex,

Don't worry about Tony and Caryl.  Like the other 230 or so
subscribers, they are too busy to be involved.  Rest of us on
event-planning can keep them updated with occasional posts to IAEP.

In other words; we split our messaging; for the too busy uninvolved we
will say different things to what we say to the involved.

It is ever thus, in all our mediums.

-- James Cameron http://quozl.netrek.org/



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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 129, Issue 17

[Tony Anderson]

It is wonderful to see a real discussion of the educational use of Sugar 
on this list.


I am particularly interested in your programming syllabus for 5th grade
students. I am trying to introduce text programming (Python and 
Javascript) to

primary school students.

I assume you did this class with Sugar. Did you use Pippy or show 
students how to program using a text editor such as nano?


How will these students continue to develop their programming skills?

i am using Al Sweigart's Invent Your Own Games with Python as the basis 
for the python course. However, I haven't yet been able to see 
continuing effort past 'Hello World!'. I think this is largely because I 
am not able to stay at one school long enough for this to develop.


Tony


On 12/22/18 6:00 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:30:13 +0530
From: Rishabh Thaney
To: Peace Ojemeh
Cc: Jaskirat Singh, "OLPC para usuarios,
docentes, voluntarios y administradores",
SLOBs,  Vipul Gupta
, Walter Bender,
iaep, sugar-devel

Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] welcoming the new Sugar Labs
oversight   board members
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks for the update, Walter and congratulations to all the newly elected
members.

I would also like to help Samson and Vipul with outreach.
Would also like to share that we recently hosted an 'hour of code' with the
ACM student chapter of our college in which we went to a school and taught
basic programming to the students of 5th grade.



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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 129, Issue 12

[Tony Anderson]

IAEP has become nearly moribund with our current emphasis on 
developer-developer communication. I think this discussion should remain 
on IAEP to remind the subscribers that this is fundamentally an 
educational project not a software development project.


As I understand it, olpc is ok but OLPC belongs to OLPC. Olpc 2.0 came 
from TK's summit in Malaysia and had nothing to do with OLPC or 
hardware. It was a reference to a new direction for the project.


Tony

On 12/21/18 1:32 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Send IAEP mailing list submissions to
iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of IAEP digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: SCaLE 17X March7 -10, 2019 (Alex Perez)
2. An open Invitation to join Sugar Labs event planning mailing
   list (was: Re: SCaLE 17X March7 -10, 2019) (Alex Perez)
3. welcoming the new Sugar Labs oversight board members
   (Walter Bender)
4. Re: [Sugar-devel] welcoming the new Sugar Labs oversight
   board members (Jaskirat Singh)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 15:10:50 -0800
From: Alex Perez 
To: Caryl Bigenho 
Cc: "iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org" ,  Sameer
Verma , Aaron Kaplan ,
"georgejh...@gmail.com" , Jaskirat Singh
, Tim Moody ,  Kenneth
Wyrick 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] SCaLE 17X March7 -10, 2019
Message-ID: <5c1c217a.2080...@alexperez.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Caryl & others,

I have removed all of the recipients who are already members of the IAEP
mailing list from the CC: list, so they do not receive duplicate e-mails.

I will be in attendance at SCaLE 17x, along with my wife, who is
currently a first grade schoolteacher, and has taught second grade,
kindergarten, and pre-K here in California. Since this is a
volunteer-run, kid-friendly event, it has a fairly different emphasis
than a lot of other Linux-oriented conferences.

Since there are nearly 240 subscribers to the IAEP mailing list, I would
like to propose we peel off the discussion of the specifics to a
general-purpose "events" mailing list, with only the people who actually
wish to be involved in the specifics of this discussion. I can set one
up easily, and we can continue discussion there. Thoughts?

On the subject of the banner, see below...

Caryl Bigenho wrote:

We also need to decide on a possible new banner for the booth or
whether we might just use the one we already have. See the attached
photo of the booth at SCaLE 15X. If we want a new one, we should get a
design and order it right away. It always costs less if you order
early. The one in the photo lists most, but not all, of the various
organizations and projects that are offshoots from, or related to, the
old OLPC organization. Thus, the title "olpc 2.0."

I am strongly in favor of _not_ re-using this banner, for a few reasons:

- It has at least one domain on it that is no longer functional
- planet.sugarlabs.org lacks quality content these days, and I really
don't think we should be encouraging people to visit it
- "OLPC 2.0" is a bit of an odd term, and since this was a
proposed/prototyped piece of hardware at one time, if people googles the
term, they get nothing useful. Furthermore, since the OLPC Foundation
still is a legal entity which exists, and holds a current, valid
trademark on OLPC,  I am against using it on signage, without the
express written consent of OLPC, Inc, which is based in Miami.

I would personally prefer to emphasize "Sugar Labs" logo, and have it be
most prominent. If I print the banner, are there any objections to that?
Do you or does anyone else know who created the banner used at SCaLE
15x? Just curious.

SCaLE is in Pasadena again this year. There are a couple of hotels
close by and they usually offer a small discount to conference
attendees. There is also the possibility of some of us getting
together and renting a large house in the area via AirBnB or one of
the other rental companies. Availability for these right now is
excellent, but I expect they won't last long. If folks would like to
do this, we need to move on it soon.

Let's make this happen!

Caryl Bigenho (unofficial SCaLE 19X booth chairperson... unless
someone else wants to do it!)

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--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 15:30:34 -0800
From: Alex Perez 
To: iaep 
Cc: Caryl Bigenho 
Subject: [IAEP] An open 

[IAEP] Sugaractivities - aslo alternative

[Tony Anderson]

This is to announce an interim alternative for ASLO. It provides access 
to  activities from ASLO and from github/Sugarlabs where a repository 
has been created.


In Sugar, enter https://tony37.github.io/Sugaractivities as the url. 
This will display the main page providing access to the complete 
collection of Sugar activities.


The first button (tile) displays a README with more details.

At this moment the repository has 523 tested activities:

    124 which work in Sugar on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and Sugar 0.112 in 13.2.9.

  24 which have been ported to GTK+3 but fail to launch.

    210 gtk2 activities which work in Sugar 0.112 but not Ubuntu sugar.

  92 gtk2 activities which do not launch in Sugar 0.112

  64 activities from github/Sugarlabs which have not been ported to 
GTK+3 but work in Sugar 0.112.


    9 activities from github/Sugarlabs which do not launch in Sugar 
0.112.


Part of the goal of this effort is to set up an easy way for volunteers 
to identify activities which can be made to work. For example, 'import 
WebKit' to import 'WebKit2'. Sugar for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS has only 12 
activities installed. From this source, there are more than 100 
additional activities which can be downloaded by Browse, installed and 
launched.


This service is offered with a double your money back guarantee! Just 
send me questions, report problems, offers to contribute or flames. I'll 
try to respond as rapidly as possible. It is even launched on Friday the 
13th.


Tony

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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Initial tests of Sugar on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS

[Tony Anderson]

The next step in this process is to upload the working activities to the 
schoolserver and then downloading and installing on an XO-1.5 with the 
13.2.8 build to verify that these activities also work on an XO. This 
can then form a core of activities.


Part of the reduction in numbers from the 714 in ASLO came from deleting 
the GCompris activities. These are available by installation on gnome 
and then using a simple Sugar activity wrapper. Unfortunately 
maintaining these activities separately requires more investment of 
technical resources than are available. The sugar-web-activities were 
not tested and so should increase the number of available activities.


Tony

On Monday, 30 April, 2018 08:18 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
Thanks Tony. This will help a lot as we try to put the finishing 
touches on the new activity portal. Also, it will provide further 
guidance to the student working on GTK2 porting. As far as the Ubuntu 
bug, it is on our radar.


regards.

-walter

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:44 AM Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


On April 27, 2018 I downloaded the ubuntu-18.04-desktop-amd64.iso. I
generated a boot usb drive with dd. The usb stick was used to install
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS alongside Windows 10. Sugar was installed using sudo
apt-get install sucrose.

 From http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities, I scraped a list of
the most recent versions of each activity. This list contained 714
entries. However a number turned out to be empty or duplicates. These
reduced the list to 516 activities.

I them matched each item against the repostories in
'http://github.com/sugarlabs'. There were corresponding
repositories for
222 of the 516 activities. All of these repositories (.zip) were
downloaded to the Positivo. One turned out to be empty:
lybniz_graph_plotter.

The 221 repositories were unzipped and an attempt was made to build a
bundle with 'python setup.py dist_xo'. This process failed with
activities which included 'from sugar.activity import activity'.
These
have not yet been ported to GTK3. This reduced the number of
activities
to 106. Each of these activities was launched from the Home View
on the
Positivo. Of these 91 executed as expected. The others failed to
start
for various reasons.

The details are in the attached spreadsheet - all normal disclaimers
apply. The comment 'help' means I didn't really understand how to
work
the activity.

Some general comments. The availability of Sugar on an LTS version
of a
major distribution is an opportunity to demonstrate that the value of
Sugar is not limited to the XO. Unfortunately, the method to launch
Sugar is not obvious. You must click on your user panel to show the
password entry. Below, there is a 'gear' icon. You must click on
that to
choose Sugar. Then you need to enter your Ubuntu password.

On the first run, you are asked about colors, gender and age. In this
age with every site collecting private information for sale - this
does
not make a good first impression.

Sugar on Ubuntu launches to the (empty) Journal View! Ubuntu itself
provides a built-in set of welcome slides to introduce its new
features.
Sadly, Sugar launches to a brick wall. The user needs to know to
display
the Home View (using F3 or the Frame - F6).

The Sugar install is minimal compared to what we have become used to.
The Home View has 5 activities: Browse, Calculate, Chat, Pippy, and
Write. Installed but not favorites are ImageViewer, Jukebox, Log,
Read,
and Terminal. Presumably users are expected to install additional
activities from the 91 tested above. However, in general, these
bundles
are not available on activities.sugarlabs.org
<http://activities.sugarlabs.org> and require some technical
expertise to install from github.

On a positive note: connection to the internet and to the
schoolserver
was smooth. The Neighborhood View worked as expected. Downloads
from the
school server to the Journal worked as normal. As far as I could
tell,
the working activities showed normal screen coverage.

On Sugar with Ubuntu, you are your Ubuntu user - not olpc. Activities
available to all Sugar users on a laptop are in
/usr/share/sugar/activities. Activities installed by
sugar-install-bundle are in /home/yourusername/Activities and are
only
available to you. With some technical expertise you can copy an
activity
to the /usr/share/sugar/Activities directory to share it with
other users.

Tony

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--
Walte

[IAEP] Initial tests of Sugar on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS

[Tony Anderson]

On April 27, 2018 I downloaded the ubuntu-18.04-desktop-amd64.iso. I 
generated a boot usb drive with dd. The usb stick was used to install 
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS alongside Windows 10. Sugar was installed using sudo 
apt-get install sucrose.


From http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities, I scraped a list of 
the most recent versions of each activity. This list contained 714 
entries. However a number turned out to be empty or duplicates. These 
reduced the list to 516 activities.


I them matched each item against the repostories in 
'http://github.com/sugarlabs'. There were corresponding repositories for 
222 of the 516 activities. All of these repositories (.zip) were 
downloaded to the Positivo. One turned out to be empty: 
lybniz_graph_plotter.


The 221 repositories were unzipped and an attempt was made to build a 
bundle with 'python setup.py dist_xo'. This process failed with 
activities which included 'from sugar.activity import activity'. These 
have not yet been ported to GTK3. This reduced the number of activities 
to 106. Each of these activities was launched from the Home View on the 
Positivo. Of these 91 executed as expected. The others failed to start 
for various reasons.


The details are in the attached spreadsheet - all normal disclaimers 
apply. The comment 'help' means I didn't really understand how to work 
the activity.


Some general comments. The availability of Sugar on an LTS version of a 
major distribution is an opportunity to demonstrate that the value of 
Sugar is not limited to the XO. Unfortunately, the method to launch 
Sugar is not obvious. You must click on your user panel to show the 
password entry. Below, there is a 'gear' icon. You must click on that to 
choose Sugar. Then you need to enter your Ubuntu password.


On the first run, you are asked about colors, gender and age. In this 
age with every site collecting private information for sale - this does 
not make a good first impression.


Sugar on Ubuntu launches to the (empty) Journal View! Ubuntu itself 
provides a built-in set of welcome slides to introduce its new features. 
Sadly, Sugar launches to a brick wall. The user needs to know to display 
the Home View (using F3 or the Frame - F6).


The Sugar install is minimal compared to what we have become used to. 
The Home View has 5 activities: Browse, Calculate, Chat, Pippy, and 
Write. Installed but not favorites are ImageViewer, Jukebox, Log, Read, 
and Terminal. Presumably users are expected to install additional 
activities from the 91 tested above. However, in general, these bundles 
are not available on activities.sugarlabs.org and require some technical 
expertise to install from github.


On a positive note: connection to the internet and to the schoolserver 
was smooth. The Neighborhood View worked as expected. Downloads from the 
school server to the Journal worked as normal. As far as I could tell, 
the working activities showed normal screen coverage.


On Sugar with Ubuntu, you are your Ubuntu user - not olpc. Activities 
available to all Sugar users on a laptop are in 
/usr/share/sugar/activities. Activities installed by 
sugar-install-bundle are in /home/yourusername/Activities and are only 
available to you. With some technical expertise you can copy an activity 
to the /usr/share/sugar/Activities directory to share it with other users.


Tony



activities.ods
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.spreadsheet
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Re: Sugar Design Meeting/Reunión 21 September at 11 PM UTC IRC Sugar Meeting [DESIGN]

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Laura

Obviously, if these suggestions are shared, members of the community can 
respond and possibly make suggestions leading to
improvements. Equally obviously, if we don't know what they are - 
nothing can happen.


Tony


On 09/22/2017 01:59 PM, Laura Vargas wrote:



2017-09-22 12:22 GMT-05:00 Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>>:


Laura

"Shouldn't the Design team have a clear way to process all this
teacher's and children's (users) suggestions/ideas?"

I would love to see all these teacher's and children's suggestions
and ideas. Could you please share them with us?



Tony,

I still don't have the procedure clear.

What happens once the teacher's and children's ideas are shared?


Looks like there is no procedure defined currently.



Regards
Laura


Tony


On 09/22/2017 12:25 PM, Laura Vargas wrote:

Tony

The fact that you don't understand the idea/proposal is not relevant.

Please consider an answer about procedure is expected.


What happens once we (Sugar Labs Design Team) do get the user
requirement?

Shouldn't the Design team have a clear way to process all this
teacher's and children's (users) suggestions/ideas?

Regards

2017-09-22 9:48 GMT-05:00 Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>>:

** To be able to download new Activities directly from the
User Interface.*


I have no idea what you mean by this.  Downloading files from
the internet or from a school server is done by a browser
(e.g. webkit). In Sugar,
this capability is provided by the Browse activity. I think
most people would consider launching a browser as a normal
part of the user interface of their system.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you could describe
specifically what you mean by the Sugar user interface and
why Browse is not part of it.


Tony





On 09/22/2017 10:22 AM, Laura Vargas wrote:



    2017-09-22 8:37 GMT-05:00 Tony Anderson <t...@olenepal.org
<mailto:t...@olenepal.org>>:



On 09/22/2017 07:19 AM, Laura Vargas wrote:

Let's say for example a teacher on field suggests we
should make downloading new activities easy and
doable from the Sugar User Interface. What should
the teacher do with his/her idea? 



First, we need a way for the teacher to make that
request. Perhaps we need something on the SugarLabs web
site that steers a user to a support forum.


Yes Sugar Labs Website is an example of the many ways today
we can get the requirements from teachers.

That said the solution you suggest (using another activity)
doesn't respond to the requirement. The requirement in the
example was:
*
*
** To be able to download new Activities directly from the
User Interface.*


This feature requirement needs a *design process to
integrate the functionality within the experience and the
interface*.

Still, the teacher may not have the skills to do all this.


What happens once we (Sugar Labs Design Team) do get the
user requirement?

Shouldn't the Design team have a clear way to process all
this teacher's and children's (users) suggestions/ideas?


Moving to IAEP as the topic is relevant to teachers not only
developers

Regards

-- 
Laura V.

*I SomosAZUCAR.Org*

“Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
~ L. Victoria

Happy Learning!
#LearningByDoing
#Projects4good
#IDesignATSugarLabs
#WeCanDoBetter






-- 
Laura V.

*I SomosAZUCAR.Org*

“Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
~ L. Victoria

Happy Learning!
#LearningByDoing
#Projects4good
#IDesignATSugarLabs
#WeCanDoBetter






--
Laura V.
*I SomosAZUCAR.Org*

“Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
~ L. Victoria

Happy Learning!
#LearningByDoing
#Projects4good
#IDesignATSugarLabs
#WeCanDoBetter



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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Re: Sugar Design Meeting/Reunión 21 September at 11 PM UTC IRC Sugar Meeting [DESIGN]

[Tony Anderson]

Laura

"Shouldn't the Design team have a clear way to process all this 
teacher's and children's (users) suggestions/ideas?"


I would love to see all these teacher's and children's suggestions and 
ideas. Could you please share them with us?


Tony

On 09/22/2017 12:25 PM, Laura Vargas wrote:

Tony

The fact that you don't understand the idea/proposal is not relevant.

Please consider an answer about procedure is expected.


What happens once we (Sugar Labs Design Team) do get the user requirement?

Shouldn't the Design team have a clear way to process all this 
teacher's and children's (users) suggestions/ideas?


Regards

2017-09-22 9:48 GMT-05:00 Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>>:


** To be able to download new Activities directly from the User
Interface.*


I have no idea what you mean by this. Downloading files from the
internet or from a school server is done by a browser (e.g.
webkit). In Sugar,
this capability is provided by the Browse activity. I think most
people would consider launching a browser as a normal part of the
user interface of their system.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you could describe specifically
what you mean by the Sugar user interface and why Browse is not
part of it.


Tony





On 09/22/2017 10:22 AM, Laura Vargas wrote:



2017-09-22 8:37 GMT-05:00 Tony Anderson <t...@olenepal.org
<mailto:t...@olenepal.org>>:



On 09/22/2017 07:19 AM, Laura Vargas wrote:

Let's say for example a teacher on field suggests we
should make downloading new activities easy and doable
from the Sugar User Interface. What should the teacher do
with his/her idea? 



First, we need a way for the teacher to make that request.
Perhaps we need something on the SugarLabs web site that
steers a user to a support forum.


Yes Sugar Labs Website is an example of the many ways today we
can get the requirements from teachers.

That said the solution you suggest (using another activity)
doesn't respond to the requirement. The requirement in the
example was:
*
*
** To be able to download new Activities directly from the User
Interface.*


This feature requirement needs a *design process to integrate the
functionality within the experience and the interface*.

Still, the teacher may not have the skills to do all this.


What happens once we (Sugar Labs Design Team) do get the user
requirement?

Shouldn't the Design team have a clear way to process all this
teacher's and children's (users) suggestions/ideas?


Moving to IAEP as the topic is relevant to teachers not only
developers

Regards

-- 
Laura V.

*I SomosAZUCAR.Org*

“Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
~ L. Victoria

Happy Learning!
#LearningByDoing
#Projects4good
#IDesignATSugarLabs
#WeCanDoBetter






--
Laura V.
*I SomosAZUCAR.Org*

“Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
~ L. Victoria

Happy Learning!
#LearningByDoing
#Projects4good
#IDesignATSugarLabs
#WeCanDoBetter



___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Re: Sugar Design Meeting/Reunión 21 September at 11 PM UTC IRC Sugar Meeting [DESIGN]

[Tony Anderson]

** To be able to download new Activities directly from the User Interface.*


I have no idea what you mean by this.  Downloading files from the 
internet or from a school server is done by a browser (e.g. webkit). In 
Sugar,
this capability is provided by the Browse activity. I think most people 
would consider launching a browser as a normal part of the user 
interface of their system.


Perhaps it would be helpful if you could describe specifically what you 
mean by the Sugar user interface and why Browse is not part of it.



Tony




On 09/22/2017 10:22 AM, Laura Vargas wrote:



2017-09-22 8:37 GMT-05:00 Tony Anderson <t...@olenepal.org 
<mailto:t...@olenepal.org>>:




On 09/22/2017 07:19 AM, Laura Vargas wrote:

Let's say for example a teacher on field suggests we should
make downloading new activities easy and doable from the Sugar
User Interface. What should the teacher do with his/her idea? 



First, we need a way for the teacher to make that request. Perhaps
we need something on the SugarLabs web site that steers a user to
a support forum.


Yes Sugar Labs Website is an example of the many ways today we can get 
the requirements from teachers.


That said the solution you suggest (using another activity) doesn't 
respond to the requirement. The requirement in the example was:

*
*
** To be able to download new Activities directly from the User 
Interface.*



This feature requirement needs a *design process to integrate the 
functionality within the experience and the interface*.


Still, the teacher may not have the skills to do all this.


What happens once we (Sugar Labs Design Team) do get the user requirement?

Shouldn't the Design team have a clear way to process all this 
teacher's and children's (users) suggestions/ideas?



Moving to IAEP as the topic is relevant to teachers not only developers

Regards

--
Laura V.
*I SomosAZUCAR.Org*

“Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
~ L. Victoria

Happy Learning!
#LearningByDoing
#Projects4good
#IDesignATSugarLabs
#WeCanDoBetter



___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

[IAEP] Meeting August 4, 2017

[Tony Anderson]

I am amazed at the discussion on finance.

The governing bylaw is at 
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Decisions July 1, 2016.


Our Finance Manager is Adam Holt. He must authorize every petty cash 
transaction (<$200) and the board must approve all other transactions.


I am sure that in a given quarter, the number of approved transactions 
is less than a dozen.


The quarterly report is the starting balance, transactions reporting 
receipts, transactions reporting expenses, and an ending balance.


I suspect all of this could be could be recorded on fewer than a dozen 
80 column punched cards. (About 10^-6 GB).


Tony

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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 110, Issue 44

[Tony Anderson]

I don't understand the discussion of the visa issue. The visa is issued 
by the Consulate of France in Lagos. Make the stipulation that the money 
will not be transferred until the visa is in the passport. No government 
official in France is involved.


The proposal seems clear. Scratch is paying for Samson's trip and 
SugarLabs funds will pay for Ibiam's trip. So naturally the amounts 
needed from the two organizations is similar.


Apparently Scratch is willing to handle the cash flow problem which is 
wonderful. Neither of these travelers have personal funds to pay 
expenses pending re-imbursement.


Tony



On 05/23/2017 02:04 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Send IAEP mailing list submissions to
iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of IAEP digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: [SLOBS] [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference
   (Samson Goddy)
2. Re: [SLOBS] [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference (Adam Holt)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 18:13:59 +0100
From: Samson Goddy 
To: Adam Holt 
Cc: iaep , SLOBs 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello Adam,

The scratch community agrees to cover the $2,800 then get reimbursed as you
suggest.

So with this new development can we officially approve the motion so that
SFC can be inform about the reimbursement.

Ask you requested the Scratch community said funding they have for me is
around ~ €2200.

So i hope i have answer all questions.


On May 20, 2017 6:29 PM, "Adam Holt"  wrote:

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Samson Goddy 
wrote:


On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 5:29 PM, Adam Holt  wrote:


As such, a more financially judicious gamble might involve a carefully
thought-out proposal for one single individual to attend.  Likely an
individual who has the strongest track record of getting EU visas
approved?  Or perhaps an individual who has established contacts /
diplomatic connections within the French government, a high-level contact
who cares about children and free software etc, to guarantee the visa will
be approved?


More explanation please, i didn't really get the point.


You need to establish evidence that the visa will be approved.  A single
applicant (rather than two) confirmed by a high-level contact in the French
government might be the best way.

3) Laura Vargas is correct SFC cannot generally provide funds in advance,

so the mechanics of this entire proposal remain unclear.  Not reassuring
when flight prices are already rising less than 2 months before the event.
But possibly a (presumed) attendee can arrange a personal loan from a
friend, to cover all funds in advance, to be reimbursed by SFC later if
nothing goes wrong with the visa?


I will reach out to the scratch team in bordeaux then discuss about it.


Speak to them about the above legal question too -- it is possible they
have high-level contacts within the French govt, to provide the highest
level of assurance that a particular visa will be approved.

4) If an improved proposal is indeed appropriate at this late stage, what

community deliverables/artifacts will the attendee(s) publish and/or
contribute in the end, preferably on the public record for all to share?


I don't understand, could you explain more.


How specifically will attendee(s) document their contributions, in a more
permanent/global way -- whether via published photos, videos, ASLO,
http://scratch.mit.edu and/or a formal report?

(Most grant proposals of almost any kind require the applicant to specify
what kinds of community documentation will result from the trip...not just
social media, but that could be one part of it!)



ASIDE: What is the exact/estimated total that Scratch itself has offered

to contribute?


They will pay my(Samson) flight (PHC > Lagos > Paris > Bordeaux), hotel,
foods and visa.


Can you provide a rough estimate for this in USD?

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--

[IAEP] ASLO activities with no repository

[Tony Anderson]

There are 224 activities in ASLO which do not appear to have github 
repositories [see attachment]. Developers of some of these could be 
keeping a repository locally or on a personal github. If anyone has 
knowledge of a repository, I would appreciate that information. After 
traveling this week and next, my intent is to create repositories for 
these activities on github/sugarlabs from the bundle. Doing so, of 
course, does not affect any repository that may be found later since it 
could replace the one from the bundle.


The 109 GCompris activities are not shown because I am not sure what 
should be done. GCompris has released a new implementation which 
replaces the version on which these were based. The developer was 
Aleksey Lim. AFIK, they do not work with 0.110. An alternative is to use 
the current GCompris release on gnome with a Sugar wrapper. This adds 
about 200mb.


After reviewing git.sugarlabs.org, there are repositories which may 
represent up to 150 activities not included in ASLO. WIth the 632 
activities now in ASLO (including 109 GCompris), this brings the total 
possible activities to nearly 800.


Tony
 +ciudadano-2.xo
4562 acocinarseadicho-1.xo
4557 biodiv-6.xo
4371 boxes-22.xo
4235 breakout-80601.xo
4602 broadway-3.xo
4438 buscar_actividades-1.xo
4657 butia_ax12_id-4.xo
4621 butia_firmware-9.xo
4457 butialo-5.xo 
4688 buuble_toon_top-150.xo
4744 carrito-3.xo
4652 carteando_-1.xo
4397 castle-8.xo
4712 cazaproblemas_3-10.xo
4365 ceibalradio-1.xo
4777 cerminal-1.xo
4499 chrome-1.xo
4645 chutar-1.xo
4295 clics_player-1.xo
4753 comodo-3.xo
4372 conozco_actividades-1.xo
4442 conozco_elementos_quiímicos-1.xo
4316 conozco_numeros-9.xo
4649 contacts-1.xo
4662 contando_con_jamcito-1.xo
4771 cordova_angular_paint-1.xo
4493 crikey-61.xo
4760 crossword-1.xo
4620 cuadraditos-3 .xo 
4208 datamanager-2.xo
4769 dj_jarm-the_farmer-1.xo
4473 el_secreto_de_graken-4.xo
4379 eleusis-6.xo
4505 end_game-28.xo
4265 escribirespacial-61.xo
4698 espiritualidad_para_ni__os_1-1.xo
4699 espiritualidad_para_ni__os_2-1.xo
4700 espiritualidad_para_ni__os_3-1.xo
4701 espiritualidad_para_ni__os_4-1.xo
4702 espiritualidad_para_ni__os_5-1.xo
4703 espiritualidad_para_ni__os_6-1.xo
4574 evil-4.xo
4594 fantascar-1.xo
4788 farmer-1.xo
4262 firefox-6.xo
4758 football-1.xo
4284 geogebra-7.xo
4356 geojam-3.xo
4267 geoquiz-5.xo
4436 gnumeric-1.xo
4580 gogonews-1.xo
4724 gravatar-4.xo
4665 gtk_draw_area_example-1.xo
4651 gvsig_batovi_map_viewer-5.xo
4332 help_arabic-5.xo
4417 ideasnds-2.xo
4362 idle-2.xo
4601 image_thumbnail-8.xo
4710 incursion-1.xo
4386 insectos-1.xo
4449 instalador_java_de_unico_uso-1.xo
4723 install_sugar_web_services-1.xo
4667 install-1.xo
4381 jam_game_boy_advance-2.xo
4435 jamactivityflash-1.xo
4474 jamcalibre-2.xo
4355 jamedia-9.xo
4716 jamediaeditor-2.xo
4598 jamedialector-1.xo
4714 jamediapygihack-0.0.2.xo
4678 jamediaterminal-1.xo
4542 jamediavideoestudio-1.xo
4357 jamesene-2.xo
4572 jamultiplos-5.xo
4554 jpeces-tangram-6.xo
4407 juani_downloader-2.xo
4330 juegos_flash-2.xo
4045 jukebox-8.xo
4770 ka_view-1.xo
4224 kaleidoscope-12.xo
4260 karma-2.xo
4759 kunfu-1.xo
4495 landmine__english-2.xo
4496 landmine__khmer-2.xo
4740 learn_to_code-1.xo
4430 learn-61.xo
4269 leer_pendrive-1.xo
4089 library-1.xo
4256 lines-1.xo
4789 lion-2.xo  
4056 log-37.xo
4441 madagascar-2.xo
4272 mafh-3.xo
4722 manage_homeviews-1.xo
4445 mapa_ceibal-5.xo
4202 mapstats-1.xo
4416 mathme-1.xo
4633 mathtest-1.xo
4727 maze_web-2.xo
4762 measurebots-1.xo
4624 measurebutia-42.xo
4504 melloworld-3.gtk3.xo
4462 minecraft-1.xo
4448 mini_vmac-1.xo
4410 motioncapture-3.xo
4487 mousecam-4.xo
4654 music_keyboard-8.xo
4755 neko_arcoíris-1.xo
4743 neko-1.xo
4369 nes-1.xo
4650 new_patterns-1.xo
4248 nijafable-1.xo
4538 oct-29.xo
4374 oggconvert-1.xo 
4422 ominoes-9.xo
4241 ooo4kids-3.xo
4439 ooo4kidses-3.xo
4440 ooo4kidsfr-3.xo
4634 oopsy-1.xo
4305 open_video_chat-1.xo
4503 operajam-1.xo
4677 participaccion-2.xo
4500 pitivijam-1.xo
4385 pj_lite-5.xo
4384 pj-22.xo
4451 pmj-22.xo
4470 pursuit-22.xo
4790 pycut-1.0.1.xo 
4592 pygihack-1.xo
4476 python_tute-29.xo
4530 quake-1.xo
4198 Quiz-18.xo
4375 radio-9.xo
4028 read-99.xo
4081 record-99.xo
4382 rectangles-7.xo
4614 remember-1.xo
4725 retroscope-2.xo
4549 root_convert-1.xo
4787 safariactivity-1.xo
4707 sash-1.xo
4715 sdownloader-1.xo
4426 shapes-7.xo
4531 shock_therapy-6.xo
4273 simcity-4.xo
4472 simcom-26.xo
4534 simplegraph-3.xo
4671 sketchometry-3.xo
4502 skype-1.xo
4670 skytime-3.xo
4739 slides-2.xo
4460 sokoban-23.xo
4792 solar_system-1.xo
4468 soma-25.xo
4301 sonata-11.xo
4443 sort_game-1.xo
4679 spirituality_for_kids_1-3.xo
4680 spirituality_for_kids_2-3.xo
4681 spirituality_for_kids_3-3.xo
4684 spirituality_for_kids_4-3.xo
4686 spirituality_for_kids_5-3.xo
4685 spirituality_for_kids_6-3.xo
4236 stackattack-80601.xo
4541 star_catcher-32.xo
4494 sugar_file_manager-2.xo
4619 sugar_network-0.7.xo
4672 super_chef-2.xo
4718 surfingnow-2.xo
4655 swift_feet-1.xo
4794 

Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference (Adam Holt)

[Tony Anderson]

The only advice is to get busy with the visa application. It takes a 
minimum of 15 days to process. The step by step is outlined on those 
websites. The main
point it that they must spend a day in Lagos up front filling out the 
visa application. In my experience this is like renewing a driver's 
license - you don't make an appointment, you just go there and follow 
the instructions. They can find out before they go to Lagos what they 
need to bring: passport, birth certificate, extra passport photos and so 
on. They will then to return to Lagos to get the completed visa 
(normally the passport is kept by the consulate during the 15 days).


Personally, since we seem to be willing to fund individuals for past 
contributions to Sugar Labs, I think the contributions of Samson and 
Ibiam are indisputable.

It should be funded on that basis alone.

Tony

On 05/21/2017 11:14 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote:


Hi Tony,


These two guys seem to have their acts together on this one but are 
having difficulty getting it approved because people feel they may not 
be able to get all their "ducks in a row" in time to make it happen. 
If there is any help you can give them... advice, people to talk to to 
get it ready etc. it would be really great. They still lack one SLOB 
vote for approval. Too bad Samson can't vote for his own proposal 



Caryl


*From:* IAEP <iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org> on behalf of Tony 
Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net>

*Sent:* Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:49:05 PM
*To:* iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
*Subject:* Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] [SLOB] email motion re Scratch 
Conference (Adam Holt)

Samson and Ibiam will need a Shengen visa
(https://buzznigeria.com/schengen-visa/).

This is handled by the Consulate of France in Nigeria in Lagos
(http://www.vfsglobal.com/France/Nigeria/)

I would recommend they add a couple of days to the trip to visit Paris.
They could fly to Paris de Gaulle, take the train to Bordeaux (leaves
from the terminal) and then return by train from Bordeaux. OLPC France
plans to have some folks there who can help with the arrangements. I
expect to be there as well.

Tony


On 05/21/2017 01:49 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:
> Send IAEP mailing list submissions to
>iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>iaep-ow...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of IAEP digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: [SLOBS]  [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference (Adam 
Holt)

> 2. Re: [SLOBS] [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference
>(Samson Goddy)
> 3. Re: [SLOBS] [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference
>(Chihurumnaya Ibiam)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 13:29:47 -0400
> From: Adam Holt <h...@laptop.org>
> To: iaep <iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org>, SLOBs <sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> Subject: Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS]  [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference
> Message-ID:
> 

Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference (Adam Holt)

[Tony Anderson]

Samson and Ibiam will need a Shengen visa 
(https://buzznigeria.com/schengen-visa/).


This is handled by the Consulate of France in Nigeria in Lagos 
(http://www.vfsglobal.com/France/Nigeria/)


I would recommend they add a couple of days to the trip to visit Paris. 
They could fly to Paris de Gaulle, take the train to Bordeaux (leaves 
from the terminal) and then return by train from Bordeaux. OLPC France 
plans to have some folks there who can help with the arrangements. I 
expect to be there as well.


Tony


On 05/21/2017 01:49 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Send IAEP mailing list submissions to
iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
iaep-ow...@lists.sugarlabs.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of IAEP digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: [SLOBS]  [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference (Adam Holt)
2. Re: [SLOBS] [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference
   (Samson Goddy)
3. Re: [SLOBS] [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference
   (Chihurumnaya Ibiam)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 13:29:47 -0400
From: Adam Holt 
To: iaep , SLOBs 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS]  [SLOB] email motion re Scratch Conference
Message-ID:

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] New ASLO Project Definition

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Chris

Currently there are two text fields per activity in ASLO: Summary and 
Description.
This gets a bit more complicated since these text fields edited by the 
developer in github.


Perhaps this might work. Have a po directory in the activities/ 
directory of the bundle. When the activity page is selected Django can 
select the summary string from the appropriate po and send it to the 
html template. This method would work for both summary and description. 
With the pootle default to display the POT string, no harm can be done.


Sam Cantaro mentioned using webhooks to notify ASLO when a new activity 
version has been released. Perhaps such a hook could be used to notify 
you of the need to review localization for the activity and another hook 
to notify ASLO to update the bundle to integrate the localization.


Tony

On 05/19/2017 10:08 AM, Chris Leonard wrote:

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:

On 05/19/2017 09:24 AM, Chris Leonard wrote:
The more difficult question is how to localize the summary and description
of the individual activities. At present, it appears we don't attempt to
localize this information.

The first thought that pops into my mind is the very brief Activity
description that is in the activity.info file and is frequently, but
not always captured in the PO file for localization.  With that as
background, making changes to activity,info format to include a richer
description seems feasible as does doing a better job of tooling the
i18n so that these activity.info fields are more consistently captured
in the PO files.  Having ASLO parse the activity.info file of the
hosted packages relevant PO file seems a reasonable approach that
would mean that ASLO doesn't have to have separately maintained
knowledge of the Activities being hosted, it justs picks it up from
the upload of the package itself.  . Just a thought.

cjl
.



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Re: [IAEP] Back on Task... The 2017 Sugar Labs Mission Statement

[Tony Anderson]

Something like:

Sugar Lab's provides tools.

or

Sugar Labs provides Sugar.

Tony


On 04/30/2017 12:58 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote:


Hi Tony,


A mission statement needs to be very short and succinct. It should be 
short enough for you to write it on the back of a business card. The 
average "Joe" (or Mary, for that matter) doesn't have a clue (or 
care) who Jean Piaget, Seymour Papert, Cynthia Solomon, or Alan Kay 
are. It isn't the job of the mission statement to tell them. That is 
your job, should you decide it is needed.



As for listing all the iterations and forms of Sugar and the tools 
that support it, simply talking about a "collection of tools" does the 
job very nicely. If folks want to know more they can ask or look it up 
or you can tell them. But the mission statement doesn't have to list 
every flower in our beautiful garden!



Caryl

----
*From:* Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net>
*Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2017 6:31:24 PM
*To:* Caryl Bigenho; iaep; walter.ben...@gmail.com; Samson Goddy; 
Lionel Laske; Adam Holt; igna...@sugarlabs.org; Laura Vargas; sameer verma

*Subject:* Re: Back on Task... The 2017 Sugar Labs Mission Statement
Compare:

"Sugar Labs is a volunteer-run project whose mission is to reach 
global learners and educators with a collection of tools that enable 
them to explore, discover, create, and reflect in their local 
language. Sugar Labs distributes these tools freely and encourages its 
users to appropriate them, taking ownership and responsibility for 
their learning." (proposed motion)


/
/

"Sugar is a learning platform based on the constructionist educational 
principles of Jean Piaget, Seymour Papert, Cynthia Solomon, and Alan 
Kay. Sugar Labs is responsible to develop, distribute, and support 
Sugar with the help of a global volunteer community of contributors. 
Sugar Labs provides Sugar in two forms: Sugar for personal computers 
and XOs and Sugarizer (Sugar Mobile) for mobile devices and the Web." 
Motion approved January 2017.


It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Sugar Labs is not comfortable 
with its 'learning platform' but prefers to offer a set of tools from 
which our users can pick and choose.


Sugar as a learning platform supports collaboration, provides a 
Journal, uses icons to minimize dependence on language skills  and 
provides a common human interface to make easier discovery of new 
capabilities.


XSCE has been working with Kids on Computers. KOC did not even 
consider Sugar but chose UberMix. If you don't need a platform but are 
happy with a collection of tools, UberMix meets the need. 
(http://www.ubermix.org/about.html and 
https://opensource.com/life/13/2/kramden-institute-ubermix-digital-divide).


Tony


On 04/29/2017 12:52 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote:


Hi...


A few things...


First... Walter made this motion and it was seconded by several board 
members. Therefore it should be voted on, up or down, before 
considering Laura's substitute motion. I see nothing wrong with this 
mission statement. It is clear and concise and describes exactly what 
Sugar Labs is all about.



Walter's motion:


/Revise the Sugar Labs mission statement to "Sugar Labs is a 
volunteer-run project whose mission// is to reach global learners and 
educators with a collection of tools that enable them to explore, 
discover, create, and reflect in their local language. Sugar Labs 
distributes these tools freely and encourages its users to 
appropriate them, taking ownership and responsibility for their 
learning."/


/
/

Second... when you reply to an email, unless it is private SLOB 
business, please be sure you have included iaep in the addresses. 
Otherwise your messages look blank to everyone who isn't a SLOB 
member. It is called "sunshine."



Third... After the mission statement  is approved, or a 
substitute (but I hope it is this one), it will be time to consider 
long term goals for Sugar Labs. There should be only 4 or 5 at most. 
I have copies of 4 of the 5 that were proposed earlier. Walter may 
still have a copy of the 5th one. After the mission statement issue 
is settled, I'll send what I have out so you can all work on getting 
them just the way they should be.



Please understand, goals are NOT the same as objectives. They are 
much more general. Objectives are designed to help achieve the goals 
and have a definite form... /who/ will do /what/ by /when/, /how/ 
will it be done and /how/ will success be measured. Goals do NOT have 
these elements!



Proposals for future use of Sugar Labs funds should be directed to 
meet specific /objectives/ and thus our goals and our mission. They 
are all interconnected.



Caryl


P.S. Shouldn't there be a SLOB meeting today? I didn't see a notice 
on the iaep list.






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Re: [IAEP] Back on Task... The 2017 Sugar Labs Mission Statement

[Tony Anderson]

Compare:

"Sugar Labs is a volunteer-run project whose mission is to reach global 
learners and educators with a collection of tools that enable them to 
explore, discover, create, and reflect in their local language. Sugar 
Labs distributes these tools freely and encourages its users to 
appropriate them, taking ownership and responsibility for their 
learning." (proposed motion)


/
/

"Sugar is a learning platform based on the constructionist educational 
principles of Jean Piaget, Seymour Papert, Cynthia Solomon, and Alan 
Kay. Sugar Labs is responsible to develop, distribute, and support Sugar 
with the help of a global volunteer community of contributors. Sugar 
Labs provides Sugar in two forms: Sugar for personal computers and XOs 
and Sugarizer (Sugar Mobile) for mobile devices and the Web." Motion 
approved January 2017.


It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Sugar Labs is not comfortable 
with its 'learning platform' but prefers to offer a set of tools from 
which our users can pick and choose.


Sugar as a learning platform supports collaboration, provides a Journal, 
uses icons to minimize dependence on language skills  and provides a 
common human interface to make easier discovery of new capabilities.


XSCE has been working with Kids on Computers. KOC did not even consider 
Sugar but chose UberMix. If you don't need a platform but are happy with 
a collection of tools, UberMix meets the need. 
(http://www.ubermix.org/about.html and 
https://opensource.com/life/13/2/kramden-institute-ubermix-digital-divide).


Tony


On 04/29/2017 12:52 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote:


Hi...


A few things...


First... Walter made this motion and it was seconded by several board 
members. Therefore it should be voted on, up or down, before 
considering Laura's substitute motion. I see nothing wrong with this 
mission statement. It is clear and concise and describes exactly what 
Sugar Labs is all about.



Walter's motion:


/Revise the Sugar Labs mission statement to "Sugar Labs is a 
volunteer-run project whose mission// is to reach global learners and 
educators with a collection of tools that enable them to explore, 
discover, create, and reflect in their local language. Sugar Labs 
distributes these tools freely and encourages its users to appropriate 
them, taking ownership and responsibility for their learning."/


/
/

Second... when you reply to an email, unless it is private SLOB 
business, please be sure you have included iaep in the addresses. 
Otherwise your messages look blank to everyone who isn't a SLOB 
member. It is called "sunshine."



Third... After the mission statement  is approved, or a 
substitute (but I hope it is this one), it will be time to consider 
long term goals for Sugar Labs. There should be only 4 or 5 at most. I 
have copies of 4 of the 5 that were proposed earlier. Walter may still 
have a copy of the 5th one. After the mission statement issue is 
settled, I'll send what I have out so you can all work on getting them 
just the way they should be.



Please understand, goals are NOT the same as objectives. They are much 
more general. Objectives are designed to help achieve the goals and 
have a definite form... /who/ will do /what/ by /when/, /how/ will it 
be done and /how/ will success be measured. Goals do NOT have these 
elements!



Proposals for future use of Sugar Labs funds should be directed to 
meet specific /objectives/ and thus our goals and our mission. They 
are all interconnected.



Caryl


P.S. Shouldn't there be a SLOB meeting today? I didn't see a notice on 
the iaep list.




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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs mission statment

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Laura

With your and Walter's opinions, may be it is time to rethink mine.

With Sebastian's techniques the software tools can be run in any 
Gnome-compatible desktop. There is no need for Sugar.


SFC does not permit Sugar Labs to have labs. So without Sugar and 
without labs, perhaps after this mission statement, we to consider how 
to rename the project.


Tony


On 04/28/2017 11:48 AM, Laura Vargas wrote:

Dear Tony,

2017-04-27 22:37 GMT-05:00 Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>>:


Still amazing!


I hope you mean this in the good way! I certainly believe names of the 
tools we facilitate to children should be as accurate as possible. I 
partly joined Sugar Labs Community because of  this basic design 
principle.


What is important about Sugar Labs is Sugar and Sugarizer.


That's your opinion and it's Ok to have an opinion.

In my case my opinion is what is important about Sugar Labs is the 
Community = users + supporters.


Regards and blessings to you

--
Laura V.
*I SomosAZUCAR.Org*

“Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
~ Laura Victoria

Happy Learning!
#LearningByDoing
#Projects4good
#IDesignATSugarLabs
#WeCanDoBetter


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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs mission statment

[Tony Anderson]

Still amazing! What is important about Sugar Labs is Sugar and Sugarizer.
Microsoft offers a collection of tools:

1. Learning Suite by Microsoft
   Over 20 of Microsoft's most popular education tools and teacher
   resources - all in one place!
2. Flashcards by Microsoft
   Build memory and recognition skills with a modern twist on the
   classic learning tool.
3. Office 365 for Education
   Free email, shared documents, storage and more! Office 365 offers
   all the tools you and your students need to succeed.
4. Photosynth
   Help students learn through interactive 3D experiences.
5. Microsoft Mathematics 4.0
   Visualize math concepts to promote better understanding.
6. Kinect for Windows SDK
   Transform ordinary classroom experiences into extraordinary
   immersive education.
7. Math Worksheet Generator
   Create great math worksheets in seconds!
8. Digital Storytelling Teaching Guide
   The ancient tradition of storytelling meets the digital age.
9. Kodu
   Teach programming, problem-solving and collaboration in a creative
   'hands-on' environment.
10. Interactive Classroom
   Use classroom polls to improve student learning.
11. Microsoft SkyDrive
   Easily manage, store and securely share thousands of classroom
   documents all in one place.
12. Chemistry Add-in for Word
   The simple, easy way to include chemistry information in your Word
   documents.
13. Mouse Mischief
   A fun way to keep your students' attention and increase
   participation in the classroom.
14. Songsmith
   Help your students 'find their spark' in the classroom with music.
15. Accessibility Guide for Educators
   Empower all students with accessible technology.
16. Office Add-in for Moodle
   Manage your courses with Moodle and Office documents all in one place.
17. Microsoft Mathematics Add-in for Word and OneNote
   Create, calculate, solve and import mathematical equations in Word
   and OneNote.
18. WorldWide Telescope
   Explore outer space from your classroom.
19. Project Tuva
   Make physics fun with a new twist on classic lectures.
20. Ribbon Hero 2
   Learning Office is a game – really!
21. Small Basic
   The fun and easy way to learn programming.
22. Bing: The Getting Started Guide for Educators
   Quickly find what you need in a visual, organized way.
23. Microsoft Digital Literacy Curriculum
   Prepare your students for the digital future.

'https://elearningindustry.com/23-microsoft-free-teaching-tools-for-educators-education'

Should we compare Sugar to this list?

Tony




On 04/28/2017 08:20 AM, Walter Bender wrote:



On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


On 04/28/2017 12:00 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org> wrote:

"Sugar Labs is a community-run project whose mission is to
support a
collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates
learners to
discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate
such tools in
sustainable and creative manners".


Sugar Labs is not a project, it is a organization of volunteers
which develops, supports and distributes Sugar.


Sugar Labs is a member project of the Software Freedom Conservancy.


Sugar is not a collection of software tools. It is a carefully
designed software system to support constructive learning.


The version in the motion covers this, except for the "carefully 
designed" bits.



It is amazing to see a mission statement that does not mention
either Sugar or Sugarizer.


Well, one could argue that those are expressions Since I am using 
0.110, I haven't experienced save as for some time so I couldn't tell 
when you were changing the name through the save as dialog or through 
the activity toolbar. The feature should work the same for all 
activities including sugar-web. There should only be one setting 
(gsetting does not depend on sugar/sugar3/web).of the mission, not the 
mission itself.


-walter


Tony





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Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org



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[IAEP] Sugar Labs mission statment

[Tony Anderson]

On 04/28/2017 12:00 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

"Sugar Labs is a community-run project whose mission is to support a
collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to
discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in
sustainable and creative manners".


Sugar Labs is not a project, it is a organization of volunteers which 
develops, supports and distributes Sugar.


Sugar is not a collection of software tools. It is a carefully designed 
software system to support constructive learning.


It is amazing to see a mission statement that does not mention either 
Sugar or Sugarizer.


Tony





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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] motion for a new mission statement

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Jonas

IAEP is the catch all list for things that are not development or 
localization. This is why it is filled with threads on
sugar organizational issues (the slobs list is not open so that slob 
issues are duplicated on iaep). Believe me, I would live

iaep to discuss education.

Tony

On 04/24/2017 05:50 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

Quoting Tony Anderson (2017-04-24 11:10:36)

Thanks for clarifying that when I installed Sugar (sucrose) on Ubuntu
I was installing the Debian package.

Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian.



My problem with SOAS is this page;
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation. It starts
out by requiring the user to install Fedora to set up the livecd
tools.

SoaS is a derivative of Fedora.

I fail to see the relevancy of discussing this at the IAEP list,
however: IAEP is an abbreviation of "It's an Educational Project",
emphasizing that the topic is pedagogics, not technology.

Please avoid cross-posting to multiple lists with different topic!



The pages for Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora are much improved. The Debian
on RPi3 needs an update.

It's a wiki: Update it yourself.  If you feel unqualified then contact
those you believe more qualified and encourage them to update it.

Since it is technical pages, reaching out at the IAEP list won't work.


  - Jonas



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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] motion for a new mission statement

[Tony Anderson]

Hey, I think we are making progress! I appreciate your loyalty to your 
employer.


Thanks for clarifying that when I installed Sugar (sucrose) on Ubuntu I 
was installing the Debian package.


My problem with SOAS is this page; 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation. It starts 
out by requiring the user to install Fedora to set up the

livecd tools.

The pages for Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora are much improved. The Debian 
on RPi3 needs an update. Visitors to the sugarlabs site would appreciate 
a succinct and current list of supported software (as you do at 
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Releases), the 'Supported Systems' page was 
last touched in 2012.


I find dd to be a simple, no fuss, no muss way to make the usb stick. 
However, the web page could point to gui tools.


The real goal is to promote the idea that Sugar is available to 
non-technical visitors for them to install on their own computer.


Tony

On 04/24/2017 12:50 PM, James Cameron wrote:

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:58:45AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

My problem with this exercise is it again postpones action to
fulfill the mission.

The board is responsible for what it talks about and decides, and it
is not for me to complain about their prioritisation, since I'm not a
board member.

In my opinion, the board is not likely to take direct actions to
fulfill either of the mission statements, but they will make sure
nothing gets in the way of contributors who are working toward those
actions.

Some people are both board members and contributors; like Walter, and
anything he does which is a contribution isn't an action taken as a
board member.  Keep the ideas separate; this is a critical principle
of governance.

So what's getting in the way of contributors?


The most critical need (under any version of the mission statement)
is to make Sugar available on a wide range of contemporary platforms
so that we can escape the view that Sugar is locked to the XO. We
then need to wean developers and GSOC candidates from the
'development environment' so that they are testing Sugar by actual
use.

Go buy the latest One Laptop per Child product for a complete and
working Sugar desktop on a contemporary platform!  We are using Sugar
0.110 with about 40 activities pre-loaded!

Disclosure; my work is paid for by One Laptop per Child.


This doesn't appear to be as difficult as it appears. Ubuntu has
Sugar 0.106 available.

No, Ubuntu has Sugar 0.110 available.


Debian has a version which I hope to get running today.

Yay.  Same version, as it comes from the same place; because Ubuntu
uses the Debian packages unchanged.


A SOAS stick can be created by downloading the image and using
dd.

Who would use dd?  There are other tools promoted for this than dd.


However, no one has stepped up to make this prominent in the
website where browsers are likely to encounter Sugar.

It is prominent on wiki.sugarlabs.org and sugarlabs.org ("Get Sugar").

So your request is for search engine optimisation?  Where's Samson!


Google for sugar release is likely to take you to laptops.org (or
get you a wiki article on sugar).

Uh oh, you're in a filter bubble?  Please clear your browser history
or use a new private window before making such searches; there's no
way that a new Google Search user would find those sites in response
to such a query.  Mostly you get music videos, or SugarCRM software.


For marketing purposes Ubuntu and Debian are using sucrose as the
name.

No way!  (a) neither Ubuntu nor Debian market Sugar, and (b) that's
not what they use the name sucrose for.  It's for a package that
installs the Sucrose component of Sugar.


I think this can be confusing and is a leftover from Activity
Central.

No, it predates Activity Central.  You're thinking of Dextrose.
Sucrose was introduced by Walter Bender in his Sugar Digest of
2008-05-26 in reference to work by Simon Schampijer.  Activity Central
began involvement around 2010.

Still, Sucrose wouldn't be expected to be known or understood
by users, unless they are also acting as deployers.


So I believe there is real work to do,

Indeed, but not as you say.  ;-)



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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 109, Issue 52

[Tony Anderson]

Great find.

Thanks,

Tony

On 04/23/2017 11:28 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Send IAEP mailing list submissions to
iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of IAEP digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Sugar Labs Mission & The 6 lesson Schoolteacher (Dave Crossland)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:28:47 -0400
From: Dave Crossland 
To: iaep , Walter Bender

Subject: [IAEP] Sugar Labs Mission & The 6 lesson Schoolteacher
Message-ID:

Re: [IAEP] Motion To Approve 2017 Sugar Labs Mission Statement

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Caryl

In the January 2017 meeting, the SLOBS approved the following motion:

motion: "Sugar is a learning platform based on the constructionist 
educational principles of Jean Piaget, Seymour Papert, Cynthia Solomon, 
and Alan Kay. Sugar Labs is responsible to develop, distribute, and 
support Sugar with the help of a global volunteer community of 
contributors. Sugar Labs provides Sugar in two forms: Sugar for personal 
computers and XOs and Sugarizer (Sugar Mobile) for mobile devices and 
the Web."


This seems to satisfy the definition of a mission statement.

Tony

On 04/22/2017 01:12 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote:


Hello All,


This is long, but it needs to be done…


It’s time to “fish or cut bait” as they say. We need to move on with 
the Mission Statement and Goals for Sugar Labs. I am submitting a 
Mission Statement as a motion to be considered for approval at the 
April SLOB meeting. Then, with that in hand, we can move on to settle 
on _4-5 broad reaching goals_to go with the Mission Statement to be 
voted on in May or June.  Specific objectives would come after that.



Most of the things people have put on the wiki are neither a mission 
statement nor are they goals. They are Objectives. But most of them 
lack the specifics to be considered a true objective.



So… what _/do/_ we need in a Mission Statement?


First let’s take a peek at the current one… yes we do have one and I 
found it sitting right at the beginning of the Sugar Labs website 
(https://www.sugarlabs.org/)



/At Sugar Labs, we make a collection of tools that learners use to 
explore, discover, create, and reflect. We are non-profit and led by 
volunteers. We distribute these tools freely and encourage our users 
to appropriate them, taking ownership and responsibility for their 
learning./



Not bad for starters! Now let’s take a look at that Wikipedia says 
about Mission Statements:



*Definition:*

A *mission statement*is a short *statement*of an organization's 
purpose, identifying the scope of its operations: what kind of product 
or service it provides, its primary customers or market, and its 
geographical region of operation. ... The purpose of a *mission 
statement*is to focus and direct the organization itself.



Here is the Mission Statement I posted last month, based on an 
excellent document Walter had written about Sugar Labs:



Sugar Labs Mission Statement:

/The mission of Sugar Labs is to reach global learners (and educators) 
with powerful free and open source educational tools to help them in 
engage Constructionist learning./


//

So, with a minimum of editing, we can combine the two to get this:

*Sugar Labs Mission Statement:*

/The mission of Sugar Labs is to reach global learners and educators 
with a collection of tools that enable them to explore, discover, 
create, and reflect. We are a non-profit and led by volunteers. We 
distribute these tools freely and encourage our users to appropriate 
them, taking ownership and responsibility for their learning./


/
/

O.K. Let's see if that meets the criteria in the definition of a 
Mission Statement as stated above.


  * purpose... check! The whole statement
  * scope of operations... check! Global
  * kind of product or service or service... check! Learning tools
distributed freely
  * primary customers or market... check! Learners and educators
  * geographical region... check! Global

/
/

Therefore, I propose that the following motion be considered at the 
April SLOB meeting:


*_*

*
*

*The 2017 Mission Statement for Sugar Labs shall be as follows:*

*
*

/The mission of Sugar Labs is to reach global learners and educators 
with a collection of tools that enable them to explore, discover, 
create, and reflect. We are a non-profit and led by volunteers. We 
distribute these tools freely and encourage our users to appropriate 
them, taking ownership and responsibility for their learning./


/*_*
/



Now, some sample mission statements from a few well known 
organizations and businesses. You will note that some of the biggest 
and most successful have very simple, concise mission statements:



** “Google's mission statement* is “to organize the world's 
information and make it universally accessible and useful.”



* “The Free *Software Foundation*(FSF) is a nonprofit with a worldwide 
*mission*to promote computer user *freedom*. We defend the rights of 
all *software*users.”



** “Oxfam* is a global movement of people working together to end the 
injustice of poverty. ... Our *mission*: To create lasting solutions 
to poverty, hunger, and social injustice.”



** “Mission statement*. The *mission* of the Wikimedia Foundation is 
to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop 
educational content under a free license or in the public 

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Testing of Activities

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Walter,

Based on my understanding of the GitHub process, I posted issues 
documenting the problems.


Tony

On 04/20/2017 12:09 AM, Walter Bender wrote:
In the meantime, it may make sense to walk through all of the repos in 
sugarlabs on GH and ensure that those with changes get updated version 
numbers, new .xo and .gtar files, and we update ASLO and downloads. It 
seems our only mechanism for doing this is manual at the moment. Tony, 
if you publish the list of activities that are working properly from 
your recent tests, I will begin the process of updating version 
numbers (and ensuring that the correct repo path is in the 
activity.info <http://activity.info> bundle) and making the new bundles.


-walter

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Chris Leonard 
<cjlhomeaddr...@gmail.com <mailto:cjlhomeaddr...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Tony Anderson
<tony_ander...@usa.net <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:
> I spent the last two plus days testing the 137 activities with 
repositories
> in github/sugarlabs.

Thank you for this effort, clearly additional follow up is required
and I hope it occurs.

> Localization also needs some attention. The setup.py enables a
developer to
> generate a master Pot file while building a bundle for release
to ASLO. That
> is probably the limit of the developer's responsibility.
However, existing
> activities over time have developed localization for many
languages. Changes
> to the messages will need new translations. Perhaps the
developer can use
> diff to find differences in the Pot and to eliminate un-needed
changes and
> test that new messages are passed through. This could enable
prompt release
> of a new version without waiting for the localization team to
provide
> translations for dozens of languages.

For a very long time, instructions to developers have been "run the
POT generation and never ever touch anything in the PO directory
again, The L10n team will take care of the rest of it for you.".
Unfortunately over the course of time, with changes in Pootle
versions, migration of our repositories to GitHub and the decay of a
"pootle-helpers" script set originally created by Sayamindu Dasgupta,
the early tight and hands-free integration between Pootle and the
repos has suffered and much of the process has returned to manual
intervention.  The best path back to such a L10n nirvana is an
upcoming release of Pootle (ver 2.8) that brings back repo integration
through the implementation of the pootle-fs file system.

At the present time if the messages of an activity are being changed,
we are still dependent upon periodic refreshes of the POT file which
can be accomplished with "setup.py genpot".  I manually upload that
renewed template to Pootle and refresh the existing PO files from the
template and call for completion of any new strings.  With the
gracious help of James Cameron in generating refreshed POT files, this
process has been initiated (and substantially completed) for the
entire Fructose collection and I am systematically committing the
refreshed PO files to the GitHub repos.(feel free to examine/monitor
pull request activity by github user leonardcj).


https://github.com/leonardcj?tab=overview=2017-01-01=2017-01-31=%E2%9C%93

<https://github.com/leonardcj?tab=overview=2017-01-01=2017-01-31=%E2%9C%93>

As for suggesting the reuse of strings common to already translated
activities, this is clearly a "best i18n practice", that should be
encouraged.

I do envision sheparding us back to an enlightened era where
developers largely can expect localizers to take care of things for
them (primarily through a migration to the 2.8 version of pootle when
finally released (or possibly 2.8.1 bug fix version if one follows
traditional Microsoft upgrade best practices).  Ideally, Pootle would
take care of POT regeneration on the backend, as we used to have it
do.

cjl
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Re: [IAEP] [ASLO] Testing of Activities

[Tony Anderson]

I posted issues for each indicating the results of the tests.

Tony

On 04/19/2017 08:50 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

Do you have the details re the broken activities?

regards.

-walter

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


I spent the last two plus days testing the 137 activities with
repositories in github/sugarlabs.

Of these, 103 work on Ubuntu 16.04 sucrose. This leaves 34 which
do not work.

The biggest problem is version control. Most of these activities
were placed in github during GCI early in 2016. The two main
contributers apparently were unaware of the activity version
number in activity.info <http://activity.info>. As a result, even
after upgrading to GTK3 (sugar3), the version number was unchanged
from the original taken from ASLO. This caused a lot of lost time
as a test on the version in ASLO failed only to find that the
version in github worked.

In many cases the activity version shown to users of ASLO is not
the most recent version (and, indeed, is a non-working version
although there is a working version available). The most recent
version as the result of some quirk in procedure or software is
available by the 'view older versions' link. At the top of that
screen is the warning: Be careful with old versions.

Try to imagine the reaction of a Sugar user who downloads an
activity from ASLO which fails to start. I can't think of anything
more likely to turn off a learner.

It was possible to get several working by obtaining a missing
component or in case of the MaMaMedia activities, to remove
reference to abiword (losing the integral lessons). In other cases
the GCI contributors failed to complete the upgrade to GTK3 which
has the property that it is all or nothing. So in several cases,
the activity fails because of an indirect or overlooked reference
to gobject. One concern is activities based on a screen-size of
1200x900. One game activity is unplayable because essential
controls are off the screen (1024x768).

As a community we need to come up with standards and procedures
for creating and maintaining activities in github.

Presumably, this is managed by an Activity Team. While there
are many registered members and owners, many of them are not
active at the moment. The website description of the Activity Team
is obsolete (dates from 2014

Currently someone who wants to contribute an activity registers
with the developer hub on ASLO. This request is answered by email
similar to the procedure for joining an mail list. How is that to
be handled now.

It appears that most of the changes made by GCI contributors were
done by direct git commits. However, more generally, work on an
activity would be done on a clone to later be merged through the
PR process. As now, actual release of an activity to ASLO is done
by someone other than the developer. So one could imagine a
process where a responsible member of the Activity Team would
generate a bundle with setup.py and install the bundle as the most
recent version on ASLO with an updated version number.

Currently, ASLO displays information about the activity that is
not available in the bundle itself such as the developer, summary,
description, 'works with', release notes, home page, and
repository link. Perhaps the standard should be to include this
information in the bundles activity.info <http://activity.info> so
the ASLO page could be generated by examination of the bundle. The
'works with' needs to be expanded to show which platforms are
supported. In addition, it should show specific restrictions. A
classic is the level activity which requires an XO with an
accelerometer. Any other Sugar user should pass. Others require
special hardware such as a midi connection, a makeymakey or gogo
board, or Butia components.

Localization also needs some attention. The setup.py enables a
developer to generate a master Pot file while building a bundle
for release to ASLO. That is probably the limit of the developer's
responsibility. However, existing activities over time have
developed localization for many languages. Changes to the messages
will need new translations. Perhaps the developer can use diff to
find differences in the Pot and to eliminate un-needed changes and
test that new messages are passed through. This could enable
prompt release of a new version without waiting for the
localization team to provide translations for dozens of languages.

Tony
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[IAEP] Testing of Activities

[Tony Anderson]

I spent the last two plus days testing the 137 activities with 
repositories in github/sugarlabs.


Of these, 103 work on Ubuntu 16.04 sucrose. This leaves 34 which do not 
work.


The biggest problem is version control. Most of these activities were 
placed in github during GCI early in 2016. The two main contributers 
apparently were unaware of the activity version number in activity.info. 
As a result, even after upgrading to GTK3 (sugar3), the version number 
was unchanged from the original taken from ASLO. This caused a lot of 
lost time as a test on the version in ASLO failed only to find that the 
version in github worked.


In many cases the activity version shown to users of ASLO is not the 
most recent version (and, indeed, is a non-working version although 
there is a working version available). The most recent version as the 
result of some quirk in procedure or software is available by the 'view 
older versions' link. At the top of that screen is the warning: Be 
careful with old versions.


Try to imagine the reaction of a Sugar user who downloads an activity 
from ASLO which fails to start. I can't think of anything more likely to 
turn off a learner.


It was possible to get several working by obtaining a missing component 
or in case of the MaMaMedia activities, to remove reference to abiword 
(losing the integral lessons). In other cases the GCI contributors 
failed to complete the upgrade to GTK3 which has the property that it is 
all or nothing. So in several cases, the activity fails because of an 
indirect or overlooked reference to gobject. One concern is activities 
based on a screen-size of 1200x900. One game activity is unplayable 
because essential controls are off the screen (1024x768).


As a community we need to come up with standards and procedures for 
creating and maintaining activities in github.


Presumably, this is managed by an Activity Team. While there are 
many registered members and owners, many of them are not active at the 
moment. The website description of the Activity Team is obsolete (dates 
from 2014


Currently someone who wants to contribute an activity registers with the 
developer hub on ASLO. This request is answered by email similar to the 
procedure for joining an mail list. How is that to be handled now.


It appears that most of the changes made by GCI contributors were done 
by direct git commits. However, more generally, work on an activity 
would be done on a clone to later be merged through the PR process. As 
now, actual release of an activity to ASLO is done by someone other than 
the developer. So one could imagine a process where a responsible member 
of the Activity Team would generate a bundle with setup.py and install 
the bundle as the most recent version on ASLO with an updated version 
number.


Currently, ASLO displays information about the activity that is not 
available in the bundle itself such as the developer, summary, 
description, 'works with', release notes, home page, and repository 
link. Perhaps the standard should be to include this information in the 
bundles activity.info so the ASLO page could be generated by examination 
of the bundle. The 'works with' needs to be expanded to show which 
platforms are supported. In addition, it should show specific 
restrictions. A classic is the level activity which requires an XO with 
an accelerometer. Any other Sugar user should pass. Others require 
special hardware such as a midi connection, a makeymakey or gogo board, 
or Butia components.


Localization also needs some attention. The setup.py enables a developer 
to generate a master Pot file while building a bundle for release to 
ASLO. That is probably the limit of the developer's responsibility. 
However, existing activities over time have developed localization for 
many languages. Changes to the messages will need new translations. 
Perhaps the developer can use diff to find differences in the Pot and to 
eliminate un-needed changes and test that new messages are passed 
through. This could enable prompt release of a new version without 
waiting for the localization team to provide translations for dozens of 
languages.


Tony
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] 2017 Goals for Sugar Labs

[Tony Anderson]

I am afraid we are going down another rathole.

Walter has taken the time to write a set of proposed goals, so why are 
we talking about 2016 goals or writing new ones. As I think it should be 
clear, I want us to move past academic studies, discussing potential 
goals, writing detailed proposals and get on with the job.


While I get no response, I still believe it is clear to even the most 
casual observer that Sugar is locked into its association with the XO. 
Our primary goal should be to make Sugar available as supported software 
for the widest range of platforms.


Walter has suggested that making Sugar available as a supported release 
for the Raspberry Pi should be easy. Great! Then let's do it. If a Sugar 
release were available for the Pi, I would be happy to exhibit it at the 
Pi and More meeting in Trier on June 24, 2017. Before Walter can 
approach the Raspberry Pi Foundation to have Sugar included in NOOBS, it 
first has to be released and supported by Sugar Labs and proven through 
deployment.


Having Sugar distributed by the Raspberry Pi Foundation would be a much 
more important marketing step than anything I have seen mentioned in the 
past two years.


Walter believes that the Trisquel version of Sugar is supportable. If 
so, then let's put the image on Sugar Labs and document how to install it


The current SOAS image can be downloaded and installed by dd to a usb 
stick but you wouldn't know that from the Sugar Labs website. This is 
really easy to fix, so let's do it.


I can't believe there is no one in this community who knows enough about 
Windows 10 to suggest a method to implement Sugar there. So far the only 
technical suggestions I have seen came from Sean Daly many months ago. 
Microsoft has a partnership with Ubuntu to provide a Bash shell on 
Windows 10. I have yet to see an technical analysis of this opportunity 
as an approach to implement Sugar on Windows 10.


None of this will be easy. For example, many of our activities assume a 
1200x900 screen. If Sugar is to be supported on a range of platforms, 
this needs to be addressed. Sugar depends on wifi for collaboration. 
Supporting networking on a range of platforms will not be easy (the 
current Sugar on Ubuntu does not provide any networking support). The 
Record activity is our interface to a camera and microphone. This will 
not be easy to extend to support a range of hardware. PC hardware is 
moving to the amd64 architechture. This will affect Sugar releases - 
probably requiring arm, i686 and amd64 versions.


But all of this is a matter of doing, not talking.

Tony

On 04/11/2017 04:55 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote:


Sorry Laura, but I don't think you actually read what I wrote. Most of 
the "Goals" you refer and the objectives you refer to are really 
"activities." Please re-read my letter below and, if you think I am 
wrong, I suggest you Google "Goals vs Objectives vs Activities" to see 
what they really are.



As an educator I have spent many hours writing goals, objectives, and 
activities (many of the latter were actually to qualify for grant 
money). It was part of my job and that of many other educators.



Now, back to goals... We should start with 4 - 5 clear, concise, goal 
statements (each may cover a fairly broad topic). I suggest something 
simple, such as Google Docs as a place to start. When we have 
something concrete that most folks can agree with and support, it will 
then be time to move them to the wiki.



Remember the KISS principle. It is how to get things done! (also can 
be Googled or searched for in Wikipedia if you need clarification).



Caryl



*From:* Laura Vargas <la...@somosazucar.org>
*Sent:* Monday, April 10, 2017 11:45:26 AM
*To:* Caryl Bigenho
*Cc:* Samson Goddy; sameer verma; Lionel Laské; Adam Holt; 
igna...@sugarlabs.org; walter.ben...@gmail.com; Tony Anderson; George 
Hunt; José Miguel García; SLOBs; iaep; sugar-devel; Dave Crossland

*Subject:* Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] 2017 Goals for Sugar Labs
Hi Caryl and all,

Last year we - as a community - made the exercise to document a list 
of technical and organizational goals here at the wiki:


https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/2016_Goals

It may be the logical start point for an updated version.


As for Objectives, and according with our mission*, earlier this year 
I suggested:


[1] To sponsor any motivated, active individuals in need to continue 
doing the best they can to support our mission.


[2] To make sure our servers are safe and our systems are distributed.

[3] To maintain domains and trademarks.


As for the official mission I would be on favor of eliminating the 
text "Originally part of the One Laptop Per Child project" just 
because it is irrelevant.


From https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Mission


  *Mission

Sugar Labs^® <https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Trademark> is a 
volunteer-driven m

[IAEP] Fwd: Re: [Sugar-devel] 2017 Goals for Sugar Labs%

[Tony Anderson]

Sorry, this didn't get copied to IAEP as I intended but only webt to 
Sugar-Devel


Tony


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] 2017 Goals for Sugar Labs%
Date:   Mon, 10 Apr 2017 10:52:04 +0800
From:   Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net>
To: sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org



Hi, Walter

Thanks for this. I feel at long last the community may actually get 
involved in a serious discussion about what we are about and what we 
need to do.


Discussion about whether to support Trisquel or Raspberry Pi or Windows 
is a distraction. The fundamental requirement is that Sugar be available 
on mainstream platforms. The perception that Sugar is software limited 
to the XO should be replaced by Sugar as a effective learning platform 
available to anyone and usable on their own computer, free and 
unencumbered by eulas. Naturally, this requires that we make it so.


If a credible Raspberry Pi image is easy to do, for God's sakes do it! 
if it can be distributed as a part of NOOBs, do it! If Trisquel is a 
viable Sugar distribution, then for God's sake document where it can be 
obtained and how to install it.


Aslam Kishwer told me, 'Make Sugar available on Windows.' It doesn't 
matter if Windows is installed on 99% or 10%. Like it or not, Microsoft 
has made learning 'Office' the sine qua non of using computers in the 
classroom. It needs a Sugar image, installable as a Windows application 
(a la wubi).


A Sugar image needs to be a file that can be installed from a local 
computer. In remote locations, the internet may not be available. Even 
with available broadband access, downloading software directly to each 
of 40 computers is not practical.


A Sugar image needs to be supported by Sugar Labs and its community. 
Currently, the XO provides 0.110 while SOAS and Ubuntu 16.04 provide 
earlier versions. So the a Sugar release needs to be images for the 
supported platforms. Sugar activities need to work on supported releases 
(which will involve significant community effort to test in the release 
cycle).


Our intended users are not software developers and so the installation 
technique needs to be comfortable and not require steps unfamiliar to 
the average computer user.There are simple gui versions of dd which 
could be used. SOAS is installable by dd from an image. This is not a 
conclusion you would reach from the Sugar Labs site which starts with 
requiring the installation of Fedora!


In the context of 'making', I think we need to consider who are the 
'makers'. The makers are our Sugar users - primary school children. 
Unfortunately, Sugar Labs seems to be moving to a closed community of 
software developers and computer science students. As a result our 
support environment is evolving to tools not available to our users - 
translate.sugarlabs.org, github, and our current mantra: 'build a 
development environment'. All of these isolate our users from the 
'making' of Sugar (esp. activities and localization).


Our focus in programming in visual languages. This is a great start. 
However, it is what educators call scaffolding. We need to use the tools 
we have and develop others to help our users program in text languages - 
Python and Javascript (with HTML and CSS). Currently our focus is 'View 
Source'. This is not a path to encourage making and violates the 
constructionist principle to start from what the user knows. More 
effective would be to focus on 'Making Your Own Sugar Activity' and the 
supporting tools (PyTute, HelloWorld, HelloWebWorld, Pippy). Programming 
today in text languages is not more difficult than it was in Basic or 
Pascal on the Apple II.


One vehicle which supports the maker community is the Makerfaire. Adam 
Holt and his team have effectively represented Sugar at some of these. 
One requirement is to provide an opportunity for visitors to use the 
available computers to do something with the computer. There ia a Pi and 
More conference in Trier on June 24, 2017. I would love to be able to 
show Sugar on the Raspberry Pi there. The essential requirement is a 
viable and supported image that is available to the attendees. Ideally 
such an exhibit would show a Raspberry Pi as a server with XSCE and 
others as Sugar systems with monitors, keyboards, and mouses.


Tony

On 04/10/2017 08:03 AM, Walter Bender wrote:



On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com 
<mailto:d...@lab6.com>> wrote:


Hi

Thanks Walter. I'd like to better understand some additional
context before diving in :)

Does this mean Sameer you have stopped the project planning
process you started, and we should not expect you to restart it again?

At the most recent SLOB meeting Samson brought up the fact that we 
were still waiting and so I volunteered to write something up to get 
the conversation going again.



Walter, are these the goals for this year, or are they your
proposal for the goals for thi

[IAEP] Installing Sugar on standard PCs

[Tony Anderson]

I have tried to install Sugar on standard PCs (specifically a BGH 
Positivo from Rwanda). This computer has UEFI with secure boot enabled.


Ubuntu
I was able to install Ubuntu 16.04 from a usb stick in a 100GB 
partition. From this I was able to install Sugar with sudo apt-get 
install sucrose. The about computer shows this version to be 0.106. 
Sugar is executable at boot (or login) time by specifying the sugar 
interface.


SOAS
I was able to create a SOAS usb stick on Windows 8 using Rufus. 
Rufus has an iso mode which I used. The SOAS stick booted. The about 
computer showed it to be 0.108.


Rufus is easily available for installation on a Windows 8/10 system.

So the most urgent task seems to be to update the Sugar Labs web site 
'Get Sugar' to document how to install Sugar at least in these two cases.


Tony
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Tony Anderson]

On 03/02/2017 02:51 PM, Laura Vargas wrote:
As for the 2017 Budget, Sugar Labs needs doable specific proposals for 
funding and investing as a healthy financial planning should consider 
a minimum of 5 years ahead.


The real need is not for financial planning, but for planning. A real 
five-year plan would be the result of serious thinking by members of the 
community about what Sugar Labs needs to do so that Sugar can survive. 
The essential piece of that is that Sugar must be available as widely as 
possible. Thankfully, Lionel Laske has taken on creating a Sugar for 
mobile devices (and the cloud).


So what is needed is some serious technical and policy discussions on 
how this can be accomplished. The five-year plan should address release 
schedules, short and long-term support policies (Do we support Sugar on 
Windows 10 for five years?). Currently Sugar is implemented with 
separate login on Ubuntu. Is this what we want or would it be better for 
Sugar to be an gnome application like GIMP. We are maintaining source on 
github, but Debian is maintaining its own source repository. What is the 
connection. Is it possible to co-ordinate releases? if there is a Debian 
version of Sugar should it be based on our repository or theirs? If we 
have a Debian Sugar, do we also need a release for Ubuntu, for RPi? Is 
Sugarizer the successor to Sugar or do we maintain Sugar for Linux 
capable devices and Sugarizer for mobile devices? What is the role of 
the schoolserver in Sugar deployments. Do we believe that Sugar 
deployments will soon have broadband internet access 24/7 for free and 
so schoolservers will no longer be necessary? Do we believe that Sugar 
Labs mission is to support deployments on the wrong side of the gap 
which will not have affordable internet for the forseeable future and 
that school servers are an essential component of a Sugar deployment?


Yes, you can't tell volunteers what to work on. They make that decision. 
However, if volunteers understand the technical need and have the 
knowledge and experience to help, they generally will. So undertaking 
these sorts of technical discussions can help us get the volunteers we 
need.


Tony
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Tony Anderson]

Sorry Laura

The money is better kept in the bank until Sugar Labs has an objective 
and understands what kind of resources it needs.


It is good that Sugar Labs is considering a budget for this year (a 
gross dereliction last year). However, an organization makes a budget to 
fund its planned projects for the year. I have never heard of one that 
starts out with 'we have this money, how can we spend it.'


Our goal for localization should be to enable our users to perform 
localization on their own laptops, i.e. view it as an opportunity for 
constructive learning.
Naturally, the professionals can do it faster and more efficiently. That 
is always the problem when you are trying to develop the capabilities of 
learners, but that investment is the business we are in. Localization is 
interesting because the most important skill is knowledge of two 
languages such as English and Yoruba. This is precisely the skill that 
is readily available in a Sugar deployment in a Yoruba-speaking region 
(and not in a professional enclave in Boston).
In Peru, it is incomprehensible that we don't have current localization 
in every local language since every Peruvian child has a laptop with Sugar.


The major need for Sugar Labs is to create a process for releasing 
Sugarversions to be installed on current platforms: PCs, Raspberry Pi, 
and Windows 10. The resources capable of accomplishing that have 
professional skills and a day job. They need to be motivated to spend 
their own time. They need to be 'sung' heroes but will probably be 'unsung'.


First, an active contributor contributes to meet a perceived need. 
Currently, we greet potential contributors with 'create a development 
environment and fix a random bug'. We ask our potential contributors to 
be familiar with git (although it isn't actually used). We don't ask 
these candidates to become familiar with Sugar or read 'Making your own 
Sugar activity'.


We need to ask contributors to the build and distribute project what 
they know about uefi and grub2, livecd tools, making debian images for 
Raspberry Pi, and so on. This skill set is available at XSCE and I have 
never heard a discussion there about how those talented volunteers are 
to be compensated. Several are at ScaleX at this moment, a location 
where it might be possible to recruit some of the technical skills Sugar 
Labs needs. Adam Holt is there, so at least one SLOB could be working in 
the interest of Sugar Labs.


We have approved an 'outreachy' intern but I have no idea what project 
the intern will be asked to undertake (generating an SOAS image from our 
github repository would be high on my list). This seems to be our focus, 
recruiting resources without any idea of why these resources are needed.


Tony

On 03/02/2017 09:16 AM, Laura Vargas wrote:



2017-02-25 20:33 GMT-05:00 Tymon Radzik >:


Our funds deserve to be spent in more orgnization-beneficial way.


Hello Tymon,

Sorry it took me a while to reply.

This Budget discussion is an open door for proposals, please do share 
yours as this policy making is also an educational process and 
therefore an ideal arena for learning!



Open Badges are proposed as an award for historic achievements, there 
is no conflict of interest when you have numeric results that support 
your performance.


I think this discussion leads to the question of what would make a 
Sugar Labs member an *active contributo*r? and of course, would 
rewarding active contributors stimulate regular members to become 
active contributors?


Those are valid questions that should and can be easily tested with 
for example the implementation Open Badges.


I would say at least one of the following must happen for a given 
period of time for a regular member to be considered an active 
contributor:


1- The member contributed periodically to at least one of the Sugar 
Labs Teams.


2- The member has had active leaderships of at least one of the Sugar 
Labs Projects.


3- The member directly contributed with code and/or with Sugar 
Projects translations.



All this data is available from logs, wiki, mailing list, etc. I hope 
for the future of the community and it's users, the recognition of 
active contributors becomes soon an open strategy for Sugar Labs 
evolution.


:D

Regards,

--
Laura V.
*I SomosAZUCAR.Org*

“No paradox, no progress.”
~ Niels Bohr

Happy Learning!

Best,
Tymon






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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Tony Anderson]

 
through the school year. Since there was no funding for a schoolserver, 
this led to a roomserver - serving the documentation and other content 
from an SD card using SimpleHTTPServer.py and the adhoc networks.


The new science curriculum in Rwanda, thanks to the efforts of Eric 
Kemenyi at Rwanda Education Board, calls for school-age children to 
learn programming in Scratch, Etoys or Turtle Art. Amazingly, Sugar 
supports all three plus learning to program in Python and in web 
technology (static: html/css and animated: javascript). This is not to 
mention the essential tool for Linux users, bash scripting.


Imagine the excitement of a primary school student who discovers that it 
is possible to write a program in python (e.g. hello world) and have 
this program appear on the Home View (with the help of Pippy). Imagine 
the motivation to learn to make a custom icon for the program in svg. 
Imagine the motivation to make the program available to classmates by 
collaboration or via a schoolserver. This is the way constructive 
education should work - get a learner started at a simple level and show 
the path to increasing capability.


The educational potential of Sugar is amazing and amazingly neglected. 
Consider that we have deployments in Uruguay and Peru which have 
resulted in every person in both countries under the age of 20 being 
familiar with Sugar. The Sugar Labs community appears to be totally 
oblivious to this experience with remarks like - are there any computers 
with 13.2.8 installed? As most of you know, a pet peeve of mine is that 
localization is viewed by Sugar Labs as a professional enterprise, not a 
learning opportunity for our users.


Arguably, Sugar Labs has more experience with promoting constructive 1-1 
learning supported by computers than anyone on the planet. What 
advantage are we taking of this experience? Why don't we know how many 
laptops are deployed within a factor of 10? Why don't we know what 
version of Sugar is installed. (It is easy for developers to update 
Sugar hourly but it is another story to take Sugar on a three-day hike 
in the Andes to reflash the XOs). Most importantly, why don't we know 
what are the successes and failures of these deployments? Try to name a 
feature of Sugar introduced based on the experience of one of our 
deployments.


None of this has to do with the age of the XO. It is still the only 
alternative for deployments envisioned by the OLPC concept. Its design 
brilliantly met this requirement. Unlike brake pads, electronics don't 
wear out. There are components such as the battery that do. The 
solid-state store apparently does also.


So naturally, it would be helpful to have in serial production a $200 
laptop with the capabilities of the XO for new or expanding deployments. 
I have been looking for the past five years but have not found anything 
even close to a viable alternative.


Keeping the XOs running needs some product development. First, we need a 
replacement battery whose design avoids current transport restrictions 
on lithium batteries. The solid-state problem is much simpler: On the 
XO-1, go to the sd card image. On the later models, replace the micro-sd 
chip. In deployments, the major problem with the XO is not performance, 
it is storage capacity.


Tony

On 03/01/2017 06:04 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:

Thanks for clarifying :)

The question remains then: Is Sugar Labs to direct attention entirely 
to a few hundreds of very-to-somewhat old XO laptops maintained by 
experts like Tony and those in Caacupe, or to the millions of children 
who have computers/tablets capable of accessing/installing Sugarizer, 
or to some mix of the two; and if the latter, what mix is appropriate 
in 2017 and 2018?


On 1 March 2017 at 05:26, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


All models are obviously xo-1, xo-1.5, xo-1.75 and xo-4. Sugarizer
is not relevant since the XOs deploy Sugar. The Sugarizer
activities are mostly also available as Sugar web activities. We
are using the Python Turtle blocks.

Tony


On 02/28/2017 02:29 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:



On Feb 27, 2017 11:34 PM, "Tony Anderson" <tony_ander...@usa.net
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:

For what it's worth, Sugar 0.110 (OLPC OS 13.2.8) has been
installed on hundreds of XO laptops, all models in Rwanda.
The codebase is reaching these classrooms.


That is great to know!!! :)

What xo models are those?

Does anyone know of any other classrooms using the latest release?

I am not sure what you mean by the js codebase, but if you
mean the sugar web activities. Yes they are available for
optional installment (along with the other activities in ASLO)


Sugarizer





--
Cheers
Dave


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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Tony Anderson]

All models are obviously xo-1, xo-1.5, xo-1.75 and xo-4. Sugarizer is 
not relevant since the XOs deploy Sugar. The Sugarizer activities are 
mostly also available as Sugar web activities. We are using the Python 
Turtle blocks.


Tony

On 02/28/2017 02:29 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:



On Feb 27, 2017 11:34 PM, "Tony Anderson" <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


For what it's worth, Sugar 0.110 (OLPC OS 13.2.8) has been
installed on hundreds of XO laptops, all models in Rwanda. The
codebase is reaching these classrooms.


That is great to know!!! :)

What xo models are those?

Does anyone know of any other classrooms using the latest release?

I am not sure what you mean by the js codebase, but if you mean
the sugar web activities. Yes they are available for optional
installment (along with the other activities in ASLO)


Sugarizer


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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs 2017 Budget

[Tony Anderson]

For what it's worth, Sugar 0.110 (OLPC OS 13.2.8) has been installed on 
hundreds of XO laptops, all models in Rwanda. The codebase is reaching 
these
classrooms. I am not sure what you mean by the js codebase, but if you 
mean the sugar web activities. Yes they are available for optional 
installment (along with the other activities in ASLO)


Tony

On 02/25/2017 12:39 PM, Sam Parkinson wrote:

On Sat, 2017-02-25 at 08:36 +0530, Dave Crossland wrote:

Actually I am not convinced of this; I do not believe that the latest
releases of the Python codebase reach classrooms, and the js codebase
only reaches one.

One of the projects listed is social help. It's a fine idea, but a
cursory look at the site shows it has extremely low activity. I think
it would be better to shut it down.

Sugar tries to literally replace every part of the computer that a user
sees.  And believe it or not; that is a hard goal for a small free
software community.  3 people in their spare time can't replace the
years of work poured into every other desktop environment & their
software.

You're 100% spot on.  The future of SL is things like TurtleJS.



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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 107, Issue 29

[Tony Anderson]

I am glad to see this discussion focusing on the technical issues rather 
than hiring someone to advertise a non-product.


However, I think the discussion still misses the main point I was trying 
to make. If we want Sugar to be a learning platform of choice in
going forward, we must make it easily available on platforms that are in 
common use and not limit it to the XO. Making Sugar widely available
today requires multiple versions (Windows PC, Chromebooks, Android 
tablets, Raspberry Pi and so on). Our goal is to make it available to 
educators who are evaluating options for deployment so, for example, if 
it is readily available for the Windows PC (e.g. as an installable 
application), more educators will be able to find it and try it out.


It is incredibly discouraging to see emails in which an update to the 
StopWatch activity is hampered by a problem with qemu or an email from 
James Cameron describing an emergency patch to the Calculate activity 
which can be installed by building a new signed image!


One of the brilliant design decisions in Sugar is to support activities 
written in Python (and now html), provide them on 
activities.sugarlabs.org, and to provide version control by incrementing 
version numbers. Now we have gotten entangled in git, installing 
activiies by generating new images, virtual machines and who knows what 
other pitfalls.


If you want to update Calculate to sugar3, make a bundle and put it in 
aslo with an incremental increase in version number and an appropriate 
comment on the aslo page. Similarly, if you need a version of StopWatch 
which incorporates the latest translation strings (which, of course, are 
text in the base version), then do it, put it on ASLO with an 
incremented version number and a comment on the ASLO page.


It is possible for our users to write a new activity in Python and with 
pippy generate a valid Sugar activity. Why are we not featuring this 
unique and magnificent capability of Sugar?


Tony


On 02/19/2017 08:24 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1.  [SoaS] SoaS frustrations & call for proposals (Frederick Grose)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2017 13:17:49 -0500
From: Frederick Grose <fgr...@gmail.com>
To: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org, s...@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: [IAEP]  [SoaS] SoaS frustrations & call for proposals
Message-ID:
<CAEcBt+UuPHfGcO=cp2aru69nts17cq4rjlxv9jbojt638qx...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 12:18 AM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net>
wrote:


Consider an potential adopter who wants to try out Sugar. As Caryl knows
from Scale, an adopter wants to know:

1 - What are the capabilities of Sugar, what are its strengths, who is
using it, are there success stories, testimonials from users?
2 - How is it supported? If I were to deploy it and needed help, is it
available?
3 - How can I install it on my PC to try it out?

Going to the Sugarlabs website, the first screen features: Activities,
Wiki, Social Help. The next statement describes Sugar as a collection of
tools.
Being persistent, if you scroll down several screens, you get to a block:
Get Sugar featuring SOAS and Gnu/Linux.

For Sugar on a Stick, I am directed to another page. It starts out well -
how to make a stick with Windows (but 7). The instructions say to download
650MB and burn a CD. At this point the instructions become incoherent. They
say to mount a 2GB or more stick and then boot from the CD and start
running Sugar from it using the Terminal activity and su.

Then I am told that a change in Fedora 24 (the adopter is saying 'what's
that?') requires the use of the command:

sudo dnf install livecd-tools

No potential adopter would persist even to this point.

The other panel claims Sugar is available on most Gnu/Linux distributions.
The accompanying instructions from the links on this panel are even more
intimidating and provide evidence of lack of support for Sugar.

In fact, I believe that Ubuntu 16.04 enables yum install of Sugar 0.110.
This should be featured.

Like Pixel, I would like to see a current Sugar image available for
download which can be transfered to a usb stick by a single dd command.
This stick would operate as SOAS but also support installation in an
available block of hard drive on any amd_64 machine. A second image ideally
would be installable as a Window 

Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 107, Issue 15

[Tony Anderson]

Consider an potential adopter who wants to try out Sugar. As Caryl knows 
from Scale, an adopter wants to know:


1 - What are the capabilities of Sugar, what are its strengths, who is 
using it, are there success stories, testimonials from users?
2 - How is it supported? If I were to deploy it and needed help, is it 
available?

3 - How can I install it on my PC to try it out?

Going to the Sugarlabs website, the first screen features: Activities, 
Wiki, Social Help. The next statement describes Sugar as a collection of 
tools.
Being persistent, if you scroll down several screens, you get to a 
block: Get Sugar featuring SOAS and Gnu/Linux.


For Sugar on a Stick, I am directed to another page. It starts out well 
- how to make a stick with Windows (but 7). The instructions say to 
download 650MB and burn a CD. At this point the instructions become 
incoherent. They say to mount a 2GB or more stick and then boot from the 
CD and start running Sugar from it using the Terminal activity and su.


Then I am told that a change in Fedora 24 (the adopter is saying 'what's 
that?') requires the use of the command:


|sudo dnf install livecd-tools
|
No potential adopter would persist even to this point.

The other panel claims Sugar is available on most Gnu/Linux 
distributions. The accompanying instructions from the links on this 
panel are even more intimidating and provide evidence of lack of support 
for Sugar.


In fact, I believe that Ubuntu 16.04 enables yum install of Sugar 0.110. 
This should be featured.


Like Pixel, I would like to see a current Sugar image available for 
download which can be transfered to a usb stick by a single dd command. 
This stick would operate as SOAS but also support installation in an 
available block of hard drive on any amd_64 machine. A second image 
ideally would be installable as a Window application with a supported 
Windows installer (like wubi did). Finally, there should be a Debian 
image which can be copied to an SD card and booted by a Raspberry Pi 3 
(and possibly 2).


Finally, our hypothetical adopter should find this 'get Sugar' 
information on the main screen, not down six screens.


Tony

On 02/15/2017 11:20 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:15:05 +
From: Caryl Bigenho<cbige...@hotmail.com>
To: Bert Freudenberg<b...@freudenbergs.de>
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs<iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org>
Subject: Re: [IAEP] pixel
Message-ID:

<cy4pr19mb1061668d2fc5eef8cbbcd2cdcc...@cy4pr19mb1061.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

+1 for Tony's comment!

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2017, at 12:51 PM, Bert Freudenberg 
<b...@freudenbergs.de<mailto:b...@freudenbergs.de>> wrote:

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:35 AM, Tony Anderson 
<tony_ander...@usa.net<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:
This is what I hoped Sugarlabs would do:

https://opensource.com/article/17/1/try-raspberry-pis-pixel-os-your-pc

Tony

Isn't that exactly what SoaS does?

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation

- Bert -


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[IAEP] pixel

[Tony Anderson]

This is what I hoped Sugarlabs would do:

https://opensource.com/article/17/1/try-raspberry-pis-pixel-os-your-pc

Tony
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Debian complaints

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Walter

Of course, we need qualified volunteers to undertake the task. So far, 
our release managers have provided support for osbuild but have not 
undertaken to provide a release intended for adoption by a general user 
or by a institutional deployment. The Sugar Labs web site offers 
releases for many platforms, but the email discussion shows that none of 
these can really be considered a stable, tested release.


It appears that the Debian repository, if updated for 0.110 and then 
passing the Debian test procedures should be the proper basis for a 
Raspbian and Ubuntu release.


I would hope our community has some one with the skills and 
determination to take this on.


Tony

On 12/17/2016 09:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

Tony,

I cannot separate the desire to have an easy install on Debian from 
the work needed to achieve that goal. Hence my asking that we expand 
this discussion to include those who might be able to help us do that 
work.


-walter

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


Hi, Walter

We again seem to have a problem in communication. My concern is
not to solve a specific problem. My concern is to leverage this
Debian process to help
Sugar Labs offer an effective release of Sugar that can become a
viable alternative for educators to implement. This can not
require specific technical knowledge such as the sugar developers
have, but the ability to install Sugar on an ordinary laptop. This
is handled by Libre Office. I can install Libre Office on an Xo
with the following script:

echo 'install libreoffice'
cd libreoffice
sudo rpm -Uvh *.rpm
cd $here

where libreoffice is a directory containing the Libre Office rpms.
This requires no access to the internet nor any special technical
skills. The
overall script is

cd /run/media/olpc/xo175
bash xo-custom

where xo175 is the label of the USB drive.

Why can't we have something as simple for Sugar? Debian seems to
be spending some effort to package Sugar in their repository. Why
can't we expend
a little effort so that Sugar can be installed by dpkg -i sugar?

I addressed this to SLOBS because I think this is a Sugar Labs
issue, not a technical one.

Tony


On 12/17/2016 04:50 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

None of this seems like it would be difficult to resolve. We need
to find someone who is in the debian world to jump in. Can you
cross post to sugar-devel?

thx

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Tony Anderson
<tony_ander...@usa.net <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:

I continue to get messages like this - I suspect because I
signed up for pkg-sugar-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org
<mailto:pkg-sugar-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org>. However,
there doesn't appear to be anyone from the Sugar community
involved.

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:10:30 +0100
Source: sugar-imageviewer-activity
Binary: sugar-imageviewer-activity
Architecture: source all
Version: 62-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Sugar
Team<pkg-sugar-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org
<mailto:pkg-sugar-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org>>
Changed-By: Jonas Smedegaard<d...@jones.dk <mailto:d...@jones.dk>>
Description:
 sugar-imageviewer-activity - Sugar Learning Platform - image
viewing activity
Changes:
 sugar-imageviewer-activity (62-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Update copyright info:
 + Update URLs to reflect new Github home.
 + Extend coverage for Debian packaging.
   * Declare compliance with Debian Policy 3.9.8.
   * Fix broken path in desktop file.
   * Have git-buildpackage filter any .git* file.
   * Modernize CDBS use:
 + Generalize resolving build-dependency on python.
 + Build-depend on licensecheck (not devscripts).

Is there anyone who cares? Since Sugar Labs does not make a
Debian release of Sugar, perhaps we should tell Debian to
drop Sugar and forget about it.
Naturally, we would be turning our back on the opportunity to
create a Sugar release for Debian which would install on
Ubuntu and Raspbian and. potentially, Windows 10.
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-- 
Walter Bender

Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org






--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org



_

Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Future of Sugar Labs

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, All

I certainly appreciate the attention my email has received. However, I 
am disappointed that the responses do not reflect my main concern. I 
beleive
Sugar and Sugar Labs will fade away if it continues to be perceived as 
the software that comes on an XO. I believe Sugar Labs and Sugar should 
be perceived as in a similar relationship as Red Hat is to Fedora and 
Canonical is to Ubuntu.


We need to have releases of Sugar: Long-term-support, latest stable, and 
developer. These releases should be downloadable as a single image which 
can be installed from a livecd usb stick generated by a dd command. The 
starting point is probably SOAS - which is not now installable without a 
technically difficult use of livecd tools in a Fedora 24 installation 
(which is difficult since Fedora provides Fedora 25).


As an evaluation of Sugar Lab's success is that the Mexican deployment 
presented in the OLPC SF Summit chooses to use Sugar instead of UberMix.

(http://www.ubermix.org/).

We should be able to speak about Sugar deployments as we now speak about 
OLPC deployments. Sugar should be available for PCs and mobile devices 
with xo being considered as one of the supported environments.


If no action is taken except to discuss future academic papers about 
Sugar Labs and SLOB elections, I think both will become totally 
irrelevant. Current OLPC deployments will choose new hardware to replace 
XOs and install on this hardware Windows, Raspbian, Chrome OS, UberMix 
or other readily available and supported alternatives. Sugar will join 
APL and Cobol in computer history.


Tony

On 12/02/2016 07:16 AM, Dave Crossland wrote:


There is a IAEP thread "Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election" in early 
August that has more details about all this.


First, I want to note that while an 'election committee' has been 
mentioned, Walter said in that earlier thread:


I am of the opinion that SLOB does not have to approve individual
membership in committees. SLOB responsibility vis-a-vis committees
is to appoint a representative. So I don't think we need a motion.


As Caryl and Seb have reiterated on this thread: while they both 
helped run the election last year, they both said a few months ago 
that they are unable to volunteer for this year.


At that time I offered to volunteer, as did Samson; and I found a 
possible web app to run the election and suggested Samuel Cantero 
could set it up, and he graciously did set it up.


However, by September, (a) the GSOC project to make a font editor 
activity wound up, and (b)  Sameer offered to lead the vision thing, 
and until that is done I am not confident about taking any other 
actions, and (c) I accepted an employment offer by Google and have had 
less free time since then compared to when I was working as a 
consultant, so I haven't done more of the things I said I would do. I 
wrote on August 5:



So, I volunteer to do the following before the next SLOB meeting:

- I will ask Sam C to set up a new
sugar-annou...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 mailing list with
himself, myself, samson, caryl and seb as list admins.

- I will complete the review of all accounts on the wiki to mark
the ones that look like spammers

- I will make a final 'all possible members' email list

- I will draft the email that asks people to join the announce
list and explains why I am asking them to do this, and a motion to
approve the election email, and share it on the IAEP list for
community review

- I will ask SLOBs to post and second the motion

Then in early September I can send the email, and prepare a report
with the new list of members and similarly to before another draft
email soliciting board applications for SLOB to review and approve
in the October meeting.

Then in early October I can send that email, perhaps also with the
donation request, and then prepare a final email calling for votes
that SLOB can review and approve in the November meeting.

Then in early November the call for votes can go out, votes can
come in, and in early December the results can be announced.


I still think this process is a good one, but regretfully I am not 
going to be able to put much effort into this until January at the 
earliest.


So, I suggest that Samson and anyone who wants to volunteer to run the 
election take a look at that web app with Sam C and see if it really 
will work for Sugar Labs in 2016.


If not, http://civs.cs.cornell.edu was used last year and should be a 
suitable mechanism for people to cast votes.


Finally, I think the very next step is for whoever volunteers to run 
the election to come up with a list of members emails to solicit votes 
from. (Where the discussions last trailed off was in discussing who 
should be on this 'final members list' - I think we agreed to cast a 
very wide net, and I made some progress reviewing wiki accounts 

[IAEP] Future of Sugar Labs

[Tony Anderson]

The December meetings is coming soon. At the beginning of the year, 
Lionel Laske proposed that we
consider a vision for the future of Sugar Labs. Like a rock dropped in 
the pond, there was considerable discussion

initially which has died away to invisibility.

I would propose that Sugar Labs adopt the following at the next meeting:

Sugar is a learning platform based on the constructivist educational 
principles of Jean Piaget, Seymour Papert, and Alan Kay. Sugar Labs
is the organization responsible to develop, distribute, and support 
Sugar with the help of a global volunteer community of contributors. 
Sugar Labs
provides Sugar in two forms: Sugar for personal computers and XOs and 
Sugarizer (Sugar Mobile) for mobile devices.


Tony
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Re: [IAEP] Another school with XO laptops.

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Samson

Great work!

Tony

On 09/29/2016 12:13 PM, Samson Goddy wrote:


Hello,

Last time, I was discussing about laptops in Nigeria. I made contact 
with a school teacher in Bayelsa, Nigeria. According to her, the 
school still use the xo laptops. So that makes two schools in the 
Niger Delta region that owns the computers. The Akwa Ibom School and 
Bayelsa. I hope to get the teachers of these schools to come over to 
the Turtleartday in Abuja. To meet with us there by November. I will 
also visit these schools to see how they use the computers.




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[IAEP] Fwd: Re: Server-devel Digest, Vol 110, Issue 5

[Tony Anderson]

This thread somehow got separated from iaep and Sugar_dev. Sorry.

Tony


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: Server-devel Digest, Vol 110, Issue 5
Date:   Wed, 24 Aug 2016 08:28:41 +0200
From:   Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net>
To: 	server-de...@lists.laptop.org, IAEP SugarLabs 
<iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org>




Sugar Labs develops and supports Sugar. The goal of Sugar is to improve
the educational experience of its school age users. For the vast
majority of Sugar users who have limited or no access to the internet,
the school server is a vital and integral element of the improved
experience.

I understand your immediate concern is to register voters for 2017
election cycle, but the real question is how can Sugar work better with
a school server. XSCE has taken the responsibility for development of
the school server from OLPC. It is sad but true that XSCE deployments
are increasingly divorced from Sugar - largely because Sugar is viewed
as limited to the XO and because XO's are de facto unavailable for
deployment (except as recylcled).

What we should be asking is why our early users are now apparently
moving away from Sugar. Could it be because we take no interest in their
needs? Is Plan Ceibal still based on Sugar? What aspects of Sugar has it
found valuable and what limitations has it found? What about Rwanda?
What about Peru? What about Paraguay?

Tony

On 08/23/2016 06:00 PM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:

Send Server-devel mailing list submissions to
server-de...@lists.laptop.org

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Server-devel digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: Is XSCE a Sugar Labs project? (Anish Mangal)
2. Re: Is XSCE a Sugar Labs project? (Dave Crossland)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:25:26 +0530
From: Anish Mangal <anis...@umich.edu>
To: Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com>
Cc: server-devel <server-de...@lists.laptop.org>
Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Is XSCE a Sugar Labs project?
Message-ID:
<cafym-tjzbqanpmwejcb4713uv1vnu4-8utqvpeupsjcn_44...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I cannot say about SL membership but the XSCE does certainly cater to
non-sugar audiences. Most of the XSCE deployments in India I know of are
non sugar based. That said, a lot of XSCE deployments also use sugar and
olpc laptops. Recent builds of XSCE also contain sugarizer, and the
software certainly has components which support sugar/olpc laptops like
jabber, moodle integration, journal backup, sugar stats (xovis)

Hope this helps.

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:13 PM, Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com> wrote:


Hi

In http://www.mail-archive.com/iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org/msg17326.html
Caryl Bigenho <ca...@laptop.org> asked me to ask you all if you consider
XSCE a Sugar Labs project.

I'm assuming the answer is "no" but I was asked to confirm :)

As a follow up question, is anyone contributing to XSCE _not_ a members of
Sugar Labs?

I see Adam Holt, George Hunt, Tim Moody, and Anish Mangal are already
members; Jerry is not.

Jerry, would you like to be a SL member?

Would anyone else?

--
Cheers
Dave

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Re: [IAEP] Server-devel Digest, Vol 110, Issue 5

[Tony Anderson]

Sugar Labs develops and supports Sugar. The goal of Sugar is to improve 
the educational experience of its school age users. For the vast 
majority of Sugar users who have limited or no access to the internet, 
the school server is a vital and integral element of the improved 
experience.


I understand your immediate concern is to register voters for 2017 
election cycle, but the real question is how can Sugar work better with 
a school server. XSCE has taken the responsibility for development of 
the school server from OLPC. It is sad but true that XSCE deployments 
are increasingly divorced from Sugar - largely because Sugar is viewed 
as limited to the XO and because XO's are de facto unavailable for 
deployment (except as recylcled).


What we should be asking is why our early users are now apparently 
moving away from Sugar. Could it be because we take no interest in their 
needs? Is Plan Ceibal still based on Sugar? What aspects of Sugar has it 
found valuable and what limitations has it found? What about Rwanda? 
What about Peru? What about Paraguay?


Tony

On 08/23/2016 06:00 PM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:

Send Server-devel mailing list submissions to
server-de...@lists.laptop.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
server-devel-ow...@lists.laptop.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Server-devel digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: Is XSCE a Sugar Labs project? (Anish Mangal)
2. Re: Is XSCE a Sugar Labs project? (Dave Crossland)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:25:26 +0530
From: Anish Mangal 
To: Dave Crossland 
Cc: server-devel 
Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Is XSCE a Sugar Labs project?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I cannot say about SL membership but the XSCE does certainly cater to
non-sugar audiences. Most of the XSCE deployments in India I know of are
non sugar based. That said, a lot of XSCE deployments also use sugar and
olpc laptops. Recent builds of XSCE also contain sugarizer, and the
software certainly has components which support sugar/olpc laptops like
jabber, moodle integration, journal backup, sugar stats (xovis)

Hope this helps.

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:13 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:


Hi

In http://www.mail-archive.com/iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org/msg17326.html
Caryl Bigenho  asked me to ask you all if you consider
XSCE a Sugar Labs project.

I'm assuming the answer is "no" but I was asked to confirm :)

As a follow up question, is anyone contributing to XSCE _not_ a members of
Sugar Labs?

I see Adam Holt, George Hunt, Tim Moody, and Anish Mangal are already
members; Jerry is not.

Jerry, would you like to be a SL member?

Would anyone else?

--
Cheers
Dave

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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 101, Issue 9

[Tony Anderson]

+1

The mailing list seems like a good idea. involving the Board appears to 
be in order. I think the August meeting was a vacation for the members 
since no real Board business was discussed; however, I would assume that 
the membership of the Election and Membership Committee would be a 
proper topic at the September meeting.


Tony

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election (Caryl Bigenho)
2. Re: Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election (Sebastian Silva)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 08:23:10 -0600
From: Caryl Bigenho 
To: Dave Crossland 
Cc: Caryl Bigenho , iaep 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

This discussion really belongs to the SLOBS members and the leaders of the 
various projects. It is not for you and I, or any other individual members to 
decide.

Caryl

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 6, 2016, at 10:55 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

On Aug 6, 2016 11:29 PM, "Caryl Bigenho"  wrote:




From: d...@lab6.com
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 17:29:13 -0400

Subject: Re: [IAEP] Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election
To: ca...@laptop.org
CC: cjlhomeaddr...@gmail.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; 
samsongo...@sugarlabs.org


On 6 August 2016 at 16:01, Caryl Bigenho  wrote:

I disagree about XSCE


Is XSCE a Sugar Labs project?

You will have to ask the XSCE folks that question.

I will do :) Do you have any suggestions for criteria to evaluate how to define 
what is and is not a Sugar Labs owned project?


As far as I know, the project is self-funded by the volunteers who work on it. 
Most of them are members of Sugar Lab.

Yes, I've read their weekly call minutes and joined a call earlier this year :) 
I encourage anyone who hasn't to also do so :)

Are there any other related projects like this you suggest reaching out to?
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 09:44:22 -0500
From: Sebastian Silva 
To: Caryl Bigenho , Dave Crossland 
Cc: iaep 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

El 07/08/16 a las 09:23, Caryl Bigenho escribió:


This discussion really belongs to the SLOBS members and the leaders of
the various projects. It is not for you and I, or any other individual
members to decide.

Hi Caryl, Sugar Labs,

I welcomed Dave's proposal because he is merely proposing a new way to
keep track of members (a moderated mailman list instead of a "Google
spreadsheet").

It is the Membership and Election Committee's (main) duty to keep this
list up to date, and currently we do it manually on third party
infrastructure using non-free software.

Mailing lists are stable, easy to manage and maintain, and would make it
easier to manage in the future (it's automatic). The members mailman
list won't exist for general discussion but for official communication
from Sugar Labs to members and as the official registry of members.

Of course the committee has to agree on this. In order to be appointed
to Membership and Election committee a SLOBS vote was necessary, I would
be happy if Dave went through the process, especially if he has more
initiatives to improve our process.

Regarding who is, or not, entitled to become a member, I have never seen
anyone rejected from Sugar Labs; I find it hard to imagine, and I like
it that way.

Instead of raising the barrier to entry, I would prefer to enforce our
currency policy ("are you still 

Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 101, Issue 6

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

Clearly we should be looking for people who are supporting or sponsoring 
XO deployments with Sugar. You also did not mention
contributors to Sugar activities. What about contributors to 
support-gang (albeit an olpc list)? What about developers and users of

xsce (school server)?

Tony

On 08/06/2016 04:11 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election (Caryl Bigenho)
2. Re: Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election (Dave Crossland)
3. Re: Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election (Samson Goddy)


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:57:44 -0700
From: Caryl Bigenho 
To: Dave Crossland , "iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org"
, Samson Goddy ,
"sebast...@fuentelibre.org" 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hi Folks…
A few minutes away from "Camp Grandma and Grandpa" to check emails (it's nap 
time).
This is all well and good, however in the past (when I first joined Sugar Labs) members had to 
qualify by actually making some tangible "contribution" (not money) to Sugar Labs. This 
could be development of software or hardware, having a small deployment, hosting Sugar Labs and 
OLPC events, and the like. We didn't simply say, "Hey, why don't you sign up and be a 
member?"
What you are suggesting seems to throw away all criteria for membership, other than a 
person saying, "Sure, sign me up."
This cheapens both the organization and discounts the efforts of the many, many 
members who have done so much work in the past.
I do think getting the membership list up-to-date in a timely manner is a great idea 
and I am glad Dave is volunteering to do the job. The list we were left with for 
last year's election was a total mess and the names  of many folks, who were long 
time contributors, were missing. Hopefully we caught all of them by sending numerous 
emails keeping everyone up-to-date on the progress of the election. Many replied 
with "Hey, how come I didn't get my ballot yet?
I urge caution in going forward with this. We should end up with, hopefully, a 
complete, up-to-date list, with current valid email addresses, of all 
contributors to Sugar Labs projects (of any kind) who desire to be members. 
Bigger isn't better in this case. Quantity definitely does not mean quality.
Caryl
Now, off to get my nap! Five-year-olds can be exhausting and if she is napping 
now, she will go to bed late tonight!
From: d...@lab6.com
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 17:45:12 -0400
To: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; samsongo...@sugarlabs.org; ca...@laptop.org; 
sebast...@fuentelibre.org
Subject: [IAEP] Preparing for the 2017 SLOB Election


Hi
In today's meeting, Seb mentioned the 2017 SLOB election is coming up fast and 
should happen in (early) December.
The election commitee last year was Samson, Caryl, and Sebastian, and Seb 
invited me to join, which I am happy to :)
I suggest we start making steady progress and update the community at each 
monthly SLOB meeting for the next 4 meetings that remain this year.
http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_dd38dc6aa11d1a98 says "The top 
four candidates will serve 2 year terms and the next three will serve 1 year terms" 
and here's the ordered list:
1. Walter Bender2. Lionel Laské3. Adam Holt4. Sameer Verma5. Claudia Urrea6. 
Tony Anderson7. Jose Miguel Garcia
Therefore Tony, Jose Miguel, and Claudia's seats will be elected this year.
The first thing I think needs to be done is to get a confirmed list of members. 
I can take care of it this month.
Currently the member list is maintained in a Google Docs spreadsheet. Seb 
confirmed members were not contacted so far this year; the only activity is to 
add some new members to the sheet this year. Walter suggested a mass email to 
ask members to confirm/update their member status, and indeed it seems to me 
that the #1 purpose of the sheet is to have a list of people to email about 
Sugar Labs business.
So I propose that, since at the last meeting a motion to ask members for dinero 
passed, and since I have a large list of everyone who ever mailed a SL mailing 
list, everyone who every made a wiki account, and this members spreadsheet, I 
will mail all these people once to ask if they want 

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [SLOB] Meeting reminder

[Tony Anderson]

AFAIK there are no proposed motions to be considered at this meeting. 
This should leave ample time for a
financial report and a report from the Translations Community Manager - 
specifically providing an update on the status
of the Yoruba project. Last meeting we gave ourselves the task to 
appoint a Financial Manager. We need to discuss how this

is to be accomplished.

Tony

On 08/05/2016 04:16 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote:

Hi Guys…

I'll probably have to miss the meeting tomorrow as we are in the 
middle of "Camp Grandma and Grandpa." Our 5-year-old granddaughter is 
keeping us busy (_really_ busy).


See you all next month (if not tomorrow),
Caryl


From: walter.ben...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 18:20:27 -0400
To: sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: [IAEP] [SLOB] Meeting reminder
CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org; 
olpc-...@lists.laptop.org


We have a Sugar Labs oversight board meeting on Friday, 5 August at 
19UTC *. Please join us on irc.freenode.net  
#sugar-meeting


Among the discussion topics: Turtle Art Days in Abuja, Asuncion, and 
Montevideo


regards.

-walter

--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

* 
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160805T15=43=Sugar+Labs+oversight+board+meeting=cursive


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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

A lot of questions. I believe Sebastian Silva would be your best source.

Tony

On 07/15/2016 02:37 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:


Hi!

On 15 July 2016 at 00:14, Sebastian Silva > wrote:


> I am proposing a simple static site that hosts xo bundles, that is
> functionally equivalent to the php5 codebase.

Aleksey had proposed this:
http://school-network.org/hub/?view=Catalog=activity=featured


Alright! Back to this whole Sugar Network thing that I feel like I 
don't totally understand :) I have some immediate practical questions 
I hope you can answer :)


Where is the source code? https://notabug.org/school-network is gone.

If an instance of School Network is to become ASLO, does it provide 
the same APIs Sam has mentioned?


I also have some organizational questions :)

Why is the source code not in a Sugar Labs repo? Why is School Network 
not a Sugar Labs project? Who owns the school-network.org 
 domain?


Who owns the project? Will they be willing to shift the upstream to 
the Sugar Labs github org, and make School Network an official Sugar 
Labs project, and transfer ownership of the school-network.org 
 domain to Conservancy?


Who has been involved in its initiation and development?

Who are the current users of School Network?


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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Dave

This proposal needs some details.

ASLO supported many functions including the developer hub, 
authentication, and so on. A simple static site that is functionally 
equivalent is ambiguous.


Aleksey's proposal has been implemented and is on-line (sugar network). 
Is this what you are proposing to implement?


Are you volunteering to undertake this task? When would you expect to be 
able to get ASLO back online for our users?


Tony

On 07/15/2016 06:14 AM, Sebastian Silva wrote:

El 14/07/16 a las 11:43, Dave Crossland escribió:


We need a plan to move off this php5 codebase.

I am proposing a simple static site that hosts xo bundles, that is
functionally equivalent to the php5 codebase.


Aleksey had proposed this:
http://school-network.org/hub/?view=Catalog=activity=featured



.



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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

The obvious question is why? What functionality do we add for our users 
by rewriting everything in Python 3?


Tony

On 07/14/2016 06:43 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:



On Jul 14, 2016 12:26 PM, "Tony Anderson" <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:

>
> The problem is ASLO, our primary interface and support for our user 
community.

>
> If we are going the github route, we need to set up a means for 
updated versions of Activities to be made into bundles and installed 
on the ASLO repository.


It seems to me that the ALSO repository is dangerous unmaintained code 
and has been on its last legs for a while and those legs just broke. 
We can put them in a cast, but they are not going to heal.


We need a plan to move off this php5 codebase.

I am proposing a simple static site that hosts xo bundles, that is 
functionally equivalent to the php5 codebase.


> Presumably documentation (but no code) would be required to document 
a procedure to submit or update activities.


Right.

> In the case of ASLO, the code base is PhP. At one time, it was 
proposed to implement in Python using Django - following the lead of 
Mozilla. This apparently didn't happen. Jekyll is clearly a much 
better framework, it's website promises that installing Jekyll is 
sufficient to create a website. :)


Is mozilla addons still a libre codebase?

> The 'crumbling to dust' applies to the code not Python. Any software 
needs support. Most of the original developers of the Sugar activities 
have moved on to greener pastures. We have activities that failed 
because they incorporated object code which was not recompiled for 
ARM. We have activities that failed because they were build with 
hulahop. We have activities that failed because they imported Abiword. 
I have not seen a single example of a Sugar activity that had to be 
updated because of Python 2.7.


Right :)

Python 2.7 packages themselves will be dropped and all python 2 code 
needs porting to 3 well in advance of that.


Eventually all i386 packages will be dropped too.

We need to plan for these eventualities :)



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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

The problem is ASLO, our primary interface and support for our user 
community.


If we are going the github route, we need to set up a means for updated 
versions of Activities to be made into bundles and installed on the ASLO 
repository. Presumably documentation (but no code) would be required to 
document a procedure to submit or update activities.


In the case of ASLO, the code base is PhP. At one time, it was proposed 
to implement in Python using Django - following the lead of Mozilla. 
This apparently didn't happen. Jekyll is clearly a much better 
framework, it's website promises that installing Jekyll is sufficient to 
create a website. :)


The 'crumbling to dust' applies to the code not Python. Any software 
needs support. Most of the original developers of the Sugar activities 
have moved on to greener pastures. We have activities that failed 
because they incorporated object code which was not recompiled for ARM. 
We have activities that failed because they were build with hulahop. We 
have activities that failed because they imported Abiword. I have not 
seen a single example of a Sugar activity that had to be updated because 
of Python 2.7.


Tony


On 07/14/2016 02:47 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:



On Jul 14, 2016 8:15 AM, "Sam Parkinson" > wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Dave Crossland > wrote:

>>
>>
>> On 14 July 2016 at 07:13, Sam Parkinson > wrote:

>>>
>>> What do you mean?  ASLO is based on very old technology, which is 
going to get broken.

>>>
>>> 10/10 would love to improve ASLO.  I actually did an "ASLO2" 
effort a while ago, although that failed for reasons that are 
documented on my blog.  I would be up for using a AppStream and 
PackageKit based stack to reinvent the activity store experience though.

>>
>>
>> I think if ASLO can't be resuscitated, something VERY simple - a 
set of XO files and a Jekyll-like simple HTML site that links to them 
- would best replace it.

>
>
> Nice idea.  That is very simple!  But remember that you also needs 
search,


As a single page the browser search provides that. Site wide Google 
Search  provides that.


> i18n,

Its static content. i18n can be done inline.

> provide an api for Sugar to get list of bundles to update.

What is the current api URL schema and do we have examples of sample 
data or do we need to bring aslo back up?


Jekyll can provide structured data in html, XML, json, etc.

> The current ASLO also has other features, like a developer interface 
(how do devs submit updates to the static site)


Github pull request.

> and only showing the user activities that are compatible with the 
version of Sugar they are running.


They click the version and a <10 line JavaScript script hides the 
irrelevant information.


>>> Re Sugar using python2; a port to python3 was previously 
investigated as part of last years GSoC. We can port it baring our 
telepathy-python dependency.  (FYI there has not been a commit for 
telepathy salut or gabble in the past 2 years.  Dead upstream?


Salut could just be stable. The spec is at least a decade old. 
Telepathy and Gabble might be lost causes.


> Still, there are so many bugs that affect sugar.  10/10 would love 
to port collab to using something like Matrix.Org - the spec is *way* 
is more easy to understand than telepathy.


Yes matrix is very nice. However I don't know if it supports 
collaboration otself, I think we need a crdt library or something 
similar on top? Or was that the case with telepathy anyway?


> Telepathy seems much more complex than Sugar needs - we don't need 
abstract multi-backend support.


What are examples of Activities that deeply integrated collaboration? 
Write?


>> I think we should not upgrade to python3 but javascript.
>
>
> Py2 -> Py3 is a small change.  Py2 -> JS is massive.

The return on investment is the same, though.

> And moving to JS means you have to replace telepathy, for Py3, we 
can easily port the python-telepathy library ourselves (it is very 
small library)


Lionel already has real time collaboration working on Sugarizer, this 
is no biggie.


> What do you mean by javascript?  It is javascript and HTML?  Or 
javascript on top of GJS, using the same amazing Gtk+ technology stack?


I am proposing sunsetting the python codebase because it is crumbling 
to dust before our eyes. The Sugar Python codebase could go back to 
being maintained by OLPC Inc and Sugar Labs become a web shop. It 
seems the new "OLPC Laptop" will be running vanilla Ubuntu.


> One idea that had been in my mind recently is moving parts of 
sugar-toolkit-gtk3 to Vala or C.  In Vala/C, you can expose the 
objects via Gobject Introspection - meaning that they are accessible 
from Python{2,3}, Javascript, Vala, Perl, and probably more.  Don't 
know if it would be worth the barrier that it adds to 

Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

ASLO, which is our most used service to our user-base, is back online, 
but is not operational.

Yesterday, it reported a long list of error messages.

Apparently, it is another victim to 'deprecation'. Possibly the most 
important feature of Sugar today is that it is based on Python 2.7 which is

not being 'enhanced'.

At the next Board Meeting, we need to consider ,  how to restore this 
service and to see that it is properly supported going forward.


Certainly the developer hub needs to be re-considered in light of the 
decision to move the activities to github.


Tony

On 07/11/2016 06:00 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

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iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of IAEP digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: [Systems] Maintenance downtime today for OS upgrades
   (Sebastian Silva)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 09:26:43 -0500
From: Sebastian Silva 
To: Laura Vargas , Bernie Innocenti

Cc: "Lim, Aleksey" , systems
, Sugar Devel
, IAEP 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Systems] Maintenance downtime today for OS
upgrades
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

I restarted the wiki service for the pe.sugarlabs.org domain.

I run it in `screen` but I will make it a proper service or maybe apache
can launch it.


El 11/07/16 a las 09:17, Laura Vargas escribió:

Hi Bernie,

Thanks for the maintenance. This is tI report you our wiki is also down!

http://pe.sugarlabs.org/ir/

Thanks in advance.

2016-07-10 12:44 GMT-05:00 Bernie Innocenti >:

 On 10/07/16 12:57, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
 > On 09/07/16 19:15, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
 >
 >> Most notably, activities.sugarlabs.org
  is still down. It probably
 >> doesn't like PHP 7... The wiki is also very slow because I had to
 >> disable APC until I understand how to make Mediawiki use the
 new APCu.
 >
 > I'm still working to restore ASLO. It's an old codebase that was
 still
 > using PHP features that were deprecated in PHP 5.5 and removed
 in PHP 7...

 I finally got ASLO to display its front page, but activities are not
 being listed. I had to switch the DB backend to mysqli because the
 mysql
 extension has been removed in PHP7.

 Aleksey, since you're familiar with ASLO's codebase, would you be able
 to look into the outstanding issues?

 --
  _ // Bernie Innocenti
  \X/  http://codewiz.org
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--
Laura V.
I SomosAZUCAR.Org

Identi.ca/Skype acaire
IRC kaametza

Happy Learning!



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Re: [IAEP] Private emails (was Re: Save as)

[Tony Anderson]

Enough. Deciding to make actions of the Oversight Board public by 
posting them on another list is not a decision on the purpose of the 
SLOBs list.


Tony

On 07/10/2016 08:21 PM, Sebastian Silva wrote:


El 10/07/16 a las 13:17, Tony Anderson escribió:

Who made that decision? Where is it recorded? Is it a part of our
bylaws? How are we supposed to know that?

It has been affirmed many times over the years. But I guess it bears
repetition.

Recently Walter confirmed this intent and committed to forwarding emails
from SLOBS (with some criteria) when appropriate.
.



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Re: [IAEP] Save As

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Sebastian

I write a lot of spaghetti code. I don't know anywhere it is written 
that code can only be written or appear on github. Has this become the 
monopoly of software?


I am really sorry that you raise what you apparently believe are serious 
issues and are unable to discuss them.


You seem to have a lot of time to quibble over procedural issues.

Tony

On 07/10/2016 07:48 PM, Sebastian Silva wrote:


El 10/07/16 a las 12:42, Tony Anderson escribió:

I don't know how to respond. You are still addressing procedural
issues. Is there some reason you want to ask questions on a PR and not
address them with the developer or me?

That is inaccurate. The developer gets all of our comments in the PR.
You should be in the PR even if you don't plan to develop.

Why do you expect mentors to be active in github? I am not a developer
and have no intention to become one. I am a user of Sugar and support
its use at a number of sites. I would like Sugar to provide certain
features which I think will make it more useful.

Because it's Summer of *Code*. And because that is how improvements in
Sugar are done. It used to be in sugar-devel, but not anymore, and it's
not my decision to make.

The reason is that I just can't follow many dozen-message lenght threads
that switch topics all the time. Instead, PR are bite-sized and end with
a merge.
.



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Re: [IAEP] Private emails (was Re: Save as)

[Tony Anderson]

Who made that decision? Where is it recorded? Is it a part of our 
bylaws? How are we supposed to know that?


Tony

On 07/10/2016 07:45 PM, Sebastian Silva wrote:

El 10/07/16 a las 12:44, Tony Anderson escribió:


Recently it has become the 'public' alternative to the SLOBs list.

Actually, SLOBs list was never meant to be used except when privacy
concerns made it unavoidable.
.



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Re: [IAEP] Private emails (was Re: Save as)

[Tony Anderson]

Recently it has become the 'public' alternative to the SLOBs list.

Tony

On 07/10/2016 07:32 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:


On 10 July 2016 at 13:26, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


Where is our list regarding the educational goals of Sugar?


Threads regarding the educational goals of Sugar are not to do with 
software development technicalities so therefore happen on this list 
in addition to all other topics. Right?





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Re: [IAEP] Save As

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Sebastian

I don't know how to respond. You are still addressing procedural issues. 
Is there some reason you want to ask questions on a PR and not address 
them with the developer or me?


Why do you expect mentors to be active in github? I am not a developer 
and have no intention to become one. I am a user of Sugar and support 
its use at a number of sites. I would like Sugar to provide certain 
features which I think will make it more useful.


Tony





On 07/10/2016 06:06 PM, Sebastian Silva wrote:


El 10/07/16 a las 10:58, Tony Anderson escribió:

Hi,

In this private email, I want to express my disappointment that there
is only a discussion of procedure, not of substance. This appears to be a
current habit in our community.

You have both expressed concerns about the Sazve As feature in the PR
itself (One would think these comments would be sent to the developer
and in the context of GSOC, to the mentors. I would like ot make
certain your questions have been answered safisfactorally, if you
would take the time to reply to the point of the communication and not
to how it was done.


One would expect mentors to be active in Github. The response on
procedure was because it was bad procedure. You seem to enjoy doing
that, and at the same time avoid channels where people actually do the
work. I can't keep up with private threads, sorry. Please subscribe to
the relevant Sugar github channels. I tried to mention you but could not
find your github username anywhere (I guess it's buried in a private email).
.



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Re: [IAEP] Private emails (was Re: Save as)

[Tony Anderson]

Where is our list regarding the educational goals of Sugar?

Tony

On 07/10/2016 06:10 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:



On Jul 10, 2016 11:54 AM, "Tony Anderson" <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:

>
> However, since the various flaps concerning the Oversight Board, it 
is very

> hard to find a discussion in IAEP that has any connection to education.

My understanding is that this list is for threads not to do with 
software development technicalities but anything else to do with the 
project:


"Its An Education _Project_"



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Re: [IAEP] Private emails (was Re: Save as)

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Sebastian

I use private communication when I feel it is appropriate. There is no 
way for me to know when you or Sam place comments
on a PR, so that communication might as well be private. In the context 
of GSOC, it might have been appropriate to mention

this in a public or private email to Utkarsh and myself.

Since you are helping as mentor for this project, I am particularly 
surprised you did not inform me of your comment.


I agree that it is not good practice to fill the lists with email. 
However, since the various flaps concerning the Oversight Board, it is very
hard to find a discussion in IAEP that has any connection to education. 
I am sure you also are getting multiple emails from Dave Crossland - 
often I get as many as four copies.


Tony

On 07/10/2016 05:43 PM, Sebastian Silva wrote:

On 07/10/2016 02:51 PM, Sebastian Silva wrote:

Tony,

Please don't write in private.


Hi Tony,
I have asked that you do not write in private in the context of GSOC.

In response you copied IAEP _and_ sugar-devel. It's not a good practice
to use more than one list (I just learned this some time ago).

One list would suffice, or, in this case, since it is about a specific
Github PR, we can use that. The point is not to loose important
discussions where nobody can ever find them.

Thanks!
Sebastian
.



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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Save as

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Sebastian

Then, the word 'change' might be more appropriate. Note: I am not 
proposing it be changed in its current usage, but only in as the default 
text

in place of the current blank text.

Tony

On 07/10/2016 05:36 PM, Sebastian Silva wrote:


El 10/07/16 a las 10:34, Tony Anderson escribió:

It is hard to describe 'Untitled' as an innovation since it is used by
major applications everywhere.

I speak in the context of Sugar
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Re: [IAEP] Save as

[Tony Anderson]

It is hard to describe 'Untitled' as an innovation since it is used by 
major applications everywhere.


Tony


On 07/10/2016 02:51 PM, Sebastian Silva wrote:


Tony,

Please don't write in private.

"Untitled" is an innovation. Currently untitled documents carry the 
activity name.



El 10/07/16 a las 07:04, Tony Anderson escribió:

Hi, All

I don't understand why this has to be so difficult. If you have ever 
used an MS Office or Libre Office application, you know that you have 
the option to save and the option to save as. This means that you can 
'save', overwriting the document stored on disk (updating it) or save 
as, meaning you can store it as a new document with the name and 
location of your choosing.


In the case of Sugar, the document will be stored in the Journal so 
the user has no need or opportunity to choose a location. However, 
there is still a need to be able to 'save' or 'save as' .


Consider:

You open Paint and create a red X and save it as x. Then you open x 
and change the image to a blue O. You want to save it as O, so you 
change the name.

Now try to open X. It is gone.

Suppose you open Paint to show someone how to select a brush and give 
it a color. You scribble something. When asked for a name, you click 
on 'quit' because there is not need to save this image.


The alert should be simple:

*Please give your project a title.   [Untitled] Save Quit*

The default title is 'Untitled' not 'Write.activity'. If the user 
clicks save with the title unchanged, it is ignored. If the user 
clicks on Quit, the activity quits (with no save of the Document - 
but the metadata is saved). if the user resumes an activity the alert 
shows:


*Change the title to save as a new document[X]  Save Quit*

 The user changes the title [X] to [Y]. Then Save saves Y to the 
Journal and X is still in the Journal as well. If the user doesn't 
change and clicks Save, the X object is deleted and the new X version 
is saved. if the user clicks on Quit - the document is not saved, the 
original X document is in the Journal

and the activity quits.

Tony





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Re: [IAEP] Tony's comments on localization

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Sebastian

I have great difficulty understanding why we don't take advantage of 
that position to enlist our
users worldwide to assist by supplying their unique knowledge of their 
own language.


Tony

On 07/10/2016 04:24 PM, Sebastian Silva wrote:

Some of us believe Free Software and Sugar are in a unique position to
support languages which don't have support from mainstream systems.
Meanwhile there exists Windows in Cherokee already.


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Re: [IAEP] [UKids] "Physics with XO" by Guzmán Trinidad now available in English

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

You might take a look at 
"http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sdenka_Salas_-_The_XO_Laptop_in_the_Classroom;


Tony

On 07/04/2016 04:23 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:


On 4 July 2016 at 02:16, Sebastian Silva <sebast...@somosazucar.org 
<mailto:sebast...@somosazucar.org>> wrote:


Our team would like to share with the community the immediate
availability
<https://www.gitbook.com/book/icarito/physics-with-xo/details> [1]
of Guzmán Trinidad's "Physics with XO". It is a book that includes
30 experimental activities for the Physics Laboratory that utilize
the XO laptop's capabilities to attach sensors and create
interactive experiences.

This looks awesome! :D

Are there any other similar textbooks for other subjects?

We believe that knowledge production should be as widely
distributed as creativity is, and so we are proud to have been
able to help to disseminate Guzmán's work for use in Rwanda,
Philippines and other places where English is spoken. The original
book was written and published in Uruguay in 2011. This
translation was made possible thanks to the kind sponsorship of
Tony Anderson.

Thank you Tony!!
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[IAEP] Lion activity version 2

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Chris

i was able to complete the functionality of the Lion.activity (version 2 
in ASLO). However, since I am not capable of providing translations for 
any language but English, testing has been limited. I was able to 
'translate' the Chat activity to Urdu (using English text for the 
translated messages). The pocompile tool is included in the bundle so, 
there should be no need for other tools.


The translated po file was compiled to an mo file. When I set urdu as 
the language in Sugar 0.106 on an XO-1.75, the Chat activity showed 
English text where Urdu would be expected. Note: in 0.106 there is no po 
file for Urdu, so the Lion activity presented the strings from the pot 
file. (copying it as ur.po). The activity saves the original po file as 
ur.po.orig (or xx.po.orig where xx is the language). The original mo 
file is overwritten.


I believe with this activity, the Nigerian project could translate the 
eight activities to Yoruba in a matter of hours (or let me know what the 
problems are).


However, the important goal is that it is simple enough that our users 
in schools can themselves translate activities to their own native language.


Tony
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Re: [IAEP] July Meeting of the Board

[Tony Anderson]

Perhaps you need to be more careful in your comments. 'I have heard this 
before' sounds like distrust.


Tony

On 07/02/2016 07:09 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:


On 2 July 2016 at 05:00, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


I hope this allays Dave Crossland and other member's mistrust of
the Board. 



Its not that I mistrust the board or think things are being done 
'behind members backs.' Its that I see the board's processes as 
dysfunctional and at cross-purposes with the org's stated values. I 
don't mean to imply that the board members themselves are 
dysfunctional people, and I can only keep repeating that is not what I 
mean.


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[IAEP] July Meeting of the Board

[Tony Anderson]

I agree that the July meeting was much more effective. Motions were 
made, seconded, discussed and voted yea-nay in an orderly way. I hope 
this allays Dave Crossland and other member's mistrust of the Board.


On 1 July 2016 at 07:06, Tony Anderson<tony_ander...@usa.net>  wrote:


We got it. In the future, we will take greater care to cross-post votes by
email (hopefully rare since the meeting itself is public).


I've heard that before, and this seems proven sure to fail. But I
don't think I can make the case for improving the boards procedure any
more strongly.


However, I was struck by the total failure of the Board to address the 
business of Sugar Labs.


In summary, more than a Finance Manager, we need a budget. More than 
defining a Finance Manager position, we need one (note the position has 
been available to be filled since before I joined the Board). We need 
reporting on Sugar Labs business at the meeting (money, translation 
community, ongoing projects such as GSOC, and so on).


*Monthly Reports

Translation Community Manager

* In the April meeting, the Board appointed Chris Leonard as Translation 
Community Manager. Adam Holt modified the job description from this:


Report monthly to the Sugar Labs Oversight Board and to the community on 
the status of the translations program.


to this:

 * Report monthly to the Sugar Labs Oversight Board and to the
   community and to the public on the status of the translations
   program, preferably by blogging informally (blog posts can be any
   length) to http://planet.sugarlabs.org using plain language that is
   understandable to almost all.
 * Report every 4 months on tactical/strategic/financial choices;
   reports can be of any length and should be posted/archived together
   to a unique URL (linked from
   http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Translation-Community_Manager) one
   month prior to the completion of each 4-month cycle, mentioning:
 o What actually happened over current 4-month cycle and/or since
   the last report, including community/financial summaries
   (absolutely fine and no shame at all if actions were different
   from prior cycle's projections: we learn by doing or we don't
   learn at all!)
 o What can and should happen over the coming 4-month cycle?
   Community workflows are never 100% rational: how do we
   tactically nurture continuous improvement?
 o Long-term strategic/impact recommendations on an annual basis.
   Or optionally more often, if he/she is so inclined.


He apparently was concerned that the Board be informed of the current 
status of the translations program.


However, there was no such report for the May meeting, the June meeting 
or the July meeting. Presumably, the August meeting will see our first 
report -  the 4 months report.


In May the Board approved the Yoruba I18n Project committing $4000 from 
the TripAdvisor Grant. The motion included:


Milestone 1 - The initial payment of $350 USD will cover startup costs
(internet connection fees, localizer recruitment/training, etc.).
Payment is to be made upon successful completion of contractual
arrangements with fiscal sponsor (SFC).

No report was made on the progress of this project in either the June or 
July meetings. As a Board member, I have no idea whether this milestone 
has been met.


*Finance Manager*

At this July meeting, the Board passed a motion regarding a Finance 
Manager. My concerns here are both procedural and substantive.
It turned out that the motion moved by the Chair was one proposed by 
email from Adam Holt at 8pm UTC on July 1, one-hour before the meeting.
It has substantial differences from the version made available to the 
Board by Caryl Bigenho on June 30. According to the log of the meeting, 
the text was shown at 19:21 and the motion was approved at 19:31. In 
those ten minutes, the discussion showed that members of the Board had 
substantial reservations but voted in favor essentially to get it off 
the table (never a good reason for action).


Note: this meeting did not have a report on our finances - unless you 
want to count Adam's report (see following).


*Adam's report on Sugar Labs finances:*

On the substantive side, Adam offered his model of a Financial Manager's 
report. [I hope we can improve on this model.]


This report shows a balance (July 1, 2016) of $ -83,198.92. It is shown 
as a liability since the reporting is from SFC's perspective.


It then has a section labeled: UNPAID INVOICES as of 1 JULY 2016.

This section has six items, two for accounts receivable and four for 
accounts payable. It is not clear which, if any, of these represents an 
unpaid invoice.


The next, very long section, is labeled: INCOME/EXPENSES BY PROGRAM 
ACTIVITY as of 1 JULY 2016:


This seems to be a list of transactions recorded by SFC back to 2012 (I 
assume from when SL entered into a relationship with it). It includes 
both expenses and income items. The list is sep

Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...

[Tony Anderson]

Dave

We got it. In the future, we will take greater care to cross-post votes 
by email (hopefully rare since the meeting itself is public).


Tony

On 07/01/2016 12:57 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:

On 1 July 2016 at 05:45, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:

You need to distinguish between encouraging members to propose actions to be
taken by the Board and a motion made at a Board meeting by a member of the
Board, seconded and put to a vote of the Board members.

I got it :) Since motions made at a Board meeting by a member of the
Board, seconded and put to a vote of the Board members, are voted on
in private, would be willing to post a motion to improve the operation
of the project that requires votes to be emailed to the IAEP and SLOB
lists in order to be counted as valid?
.



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Re: [IAEP] Voting on GPLv3 motion

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Sam

This was in response to Dave Crossland's concern that the Board is 
acting in secret. The motion passed with 6 votes in favor and one 
abstention.


Tony

On 07/01/2016 11:55 AM, Sam Parkinson wrote:



On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> 
wrote:

Hi, Dave

This is what I have been able to find regarding the GPLv3 motion.

_At today's Sugar Labs oversight board meeting [1], we discussed the 
motion submitted by Sebastian Silva to finalize the transition from 
GPLv2 to GPLv3 for the Sugar core libraries (Sugar Activity 
developers are still free to choose whatever Libre license they 
prefer for their work.) See [2]. I second the motion and bring it to 
you in an email vote._


Didn't the motion pass?  I already merged the change of licence into 
the sugar repo, as per the approval.


Also, will we migrate sugar-toolkit-gtk3 to LGPLv3+?  What about 
sugar-datastore?



_
__
__Approve.__

__Tony Anderson__
__
_

_Approve._

__

_Sameer__
_

_Approve._

_
_
_BTW I'm worried about the fact that the Sugar-Web part (and so 
Sugarizer too) use the Apache 2.0 Licence. _

_I'm not a specialist but what imply a Licence migration ?_


These web people and their non copyleft liscenses.  I'm defiantly not 
a copyright holder for sugar-web, but aren't they worried about people 
stealing their work and rolling it into nonfree software?


Thanks,
Sam


_
_
_  Lionel._
_
_
_+1 para GPLv3 motion_
_
_
_
___
__Lic. José Miguel García__
__Montevideo - Uruguay_
_
__Approved!_
_
_
_Claudia_

Today at 8:04PM (ET) would be the deadline for the GPLv3 motion. (May 
13 @ 8:04PM ET)


So this vote was 6 in favor and one abstention.

Tony



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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

You need to distinguish between encouraging members to propose actions 
to be taken by the Board and a motion made at a Board meeting by a 
member of the Board, seconded and put to a vote of the Board members.


Tony



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[IAEP] Renewal of domain name

[Tony Anderson]

According to Walter (email of May 10 posted to SLOBs, IAEP, and 
Sugar-devel).



   Motion to pay for laboratoriosazucar.org
    domain


Did not think we needed a motion since it was already a done deal. We 
should talk with Bernie about this over the weekend: how to ensure the 
infrastructure team stays ahead of these issues.



Tony
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[IAEP] Yoruba I18n

[Tony Anderson]

At today's Sugar Labs oversight board meeting [1], we discussed the 
motion submitted by Chris Leonard to fund a program for translation of 
Sugar into Yoruba, one of the three main languages spoken in Nigeria. I 
second the motion and bring it to you in an email vote.


Members of the oversight board, please reply to this email solicitation 
for a vote on the following motion.


[text of the motion follows - this email from Walter was posted on IAEP]

Approve.

Tony Anderson

Approve.

Sameer



Disagree.

I don't see any evidence how Yoruba localization could increase the size 
of the Sugar community. I think we mix here two things:

- a localization project without any clear need on the field,
- a legitimate wish to thank an active and loyal contributor (Samson)
I can't be agree with the first one (including within the Trip Advisor 
deal): it's time and money for nothing.
I'm agree with the second one but may be we could imagine other ways to 
do that, i.e. ask Samson to work on more useful tasks. For example help 
on initiative like the Tony one to invent an auto localization process.


Best regards from France.

  Lionel.


+1 para Yoruba i18n motion

Sugiero que para futuras propuestas se especifique el impacto que tendrá 
en la comunidad. Es decir, cuáles y cuántos serán los beneficiarios de 
la traducción, y si esto ampliará significativamente el alcance de Sugar.


Saludos


___
Lic. José Miguel García
Montevideo - Uruguay

+1 to the motion.

Following Lionel's point, I suggest we create a list of languages and 
decide which ones are a priority (based on the potential impact) and 
look for people to do the job.


Claudia





Today at 7:38PM (ET) would be the deadline for the i18n motion.

So the result on this motion is five in favor, one opposed and one 
abstention.


Tony
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[IAEP] Voting on GPLv3 motion

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

This is what I have been able to find regarding the GPLv3 motion.

_At today's Sugar Labs oversight board meeting [1], we discussed the 
motion submitted by Sebastian Silva to finalize the transition from 
GPLv2 to GPLv3 for the Sugar core libraries (Sugar Activity developers 
are still free to choose whatever Libre license they prefer for their 
work.) See [2]. I second the motion and bring it to you in an email vote.__

__
__Approve.__

__Tony Anderson__
__
_

_Approve._

__

_Sameer__
_

_Approve._

_
_
_BTW I'm worried about the fact that the Sugar-Web part (and so 
Sugarizer too) use the Apache 2.0 Licence. _

_I'm not a specialist but what imply a Licence migration ?_
_
_
_  Lionel._
_
_
_+1 para GPLv3 motion_
_
_
_
___
__Lic. José Miguel García__
__Montevideo - Uruguay_
_
__Approved!_
_
_
_Claudia_

Today at 8:04PM (ET) would be the deadline for the GPLv3 motion. (May 13 
@ 8:04PM ET)


So this vote was 6 in favor and one abstention.

Tony

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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...

[Tony Anderson]

Adam - sorry, caught again by the 'reply list' button.

Tony

On 06/30/2016 07:10 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:

Hi, Dave

Your motion has never been presented to the Board. I have no specific 
knowledge that all members oppose it.


Your record of decisions includes many items that have never become 
before the Board. You annoy many of us by
your continual accusations that we are 'hiding' actions from the 
members of the Sugar Labs community.


From my point of view, the SLOBs list can be made public. Any 
necessary private communications can be made by private email.

With seven members, this is not so burdensome.

Tony

On 06/30/2016 06:56 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:

Hi

On 21 June 2016 at 23:00, Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com> wrote:

The reason I am feeling frustration is that Adam, a board member,
asked me to administer the board's record of decisions on the wiki,
and my effort to do so has been fettered: reports of motion outcomes
are reported by the chair - Walter - but I could not verify those
votes in the public mail archive.

Therefore I have offered a respectful motion to improve the
functioning of the organization by requiring votes on public motions
to be cross posted to the public mailing list and the private one in
order to be valid.

I am not sure why anyone opposes that motion, and why it was not
seconded and approved.

I would like the board to discuss this in the meeting tomorrow; why do
all board members oppose that motion, refusing to second it?


Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...

[Tony Anderson]

The following was my reply to Walter's request.

Hi Walter,

My intention was to vote in favor of the motion. Perhaps we need some 
standard way to vote so that it will be understood.


Tony

On 05/18/2016 02:01 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
Please respond to this request for your vote today. If you are going to 
abstain, then please do me the courtesy of telling me.


regards.

-walter

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 2:11 AM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:

Agreed.

Tony

Unfortunately my reply went only to the SLOBs list (a feature of the 
reply all button in Thunderbird).


Hola!
+1 para
Motion: to reimburse Edgar Quispe for expenses incurred representing 
Sugar Labs at the Traducción e interpretación en las lenguas originarias 
del Perú meeting in Lima. The cost is $168.88


Saludos!

This vote was addressed to the SLOBs list.

Adam's response:

I find the practice of retroactively voting for funds to be highly 
unprofessional, in all instances.


Nevertheless I am hereby voting in favor in this 1 instance, on the hope 
that Translation Community Manager Chris Leonard will begin improving 
the situation with a public blog going forward -- so everyone knows 
what's happening and why.


This reply went to SLOBs, IAEP, and Sugar-devel.

Lionel's response:


+1 for the remark of Adam.
+1 for the motion due to the relative small amount of money engaged.

   Lionel.

This reply went to the three lists.

Claudia's response:

+1 from me!

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 8:29 AM, José Miguel García 
<josemig...@argos.edu.uy> wrote:


Hola!
+1 para
Motion: to reimburse Edgar Quispe for expenses incurred 
representing Sugar Labs at the Traducción e interpretación en las 
lenguas originarias del Perú meeting in Lima. The cost is $168.88


Saludos!


___
Lic. José Miguel García
Montevideo - Uruguay
Claudia's response went only to the SLOBs list.

Sameer's response. This response went only to the SLOBs list.

+1

Sameer

On May 18, 2016 5:01 AM, "Walter Bender" <walter.ben...@gmail.com 
<mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Please respond to this request for your vote today. If you are going to 
abstain, then please do me the courtesy of telling me.


regards.

-walter

This appears to be 7 votes in favor of the motion. I apologize to any 
member who wished their response to be private. All a member should need to
have the vote recorded. I think members should be able to keep their 
comments private.


I'll try to look at the others, but I don't have more time at the moment.

Tony

On 06/30/2016 06:54 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:

On 27 June 2016 at 10:55, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:

Can you identify these motions. Most of the votes were cast at the meetings.
As far as I remember there were two email votes.

Five motions have passed since I joined the project and I can only
verify all 7 votes for 1 motion. The other 4 are:

AGREED MOTION 2016-21, Walter Bender: to reimburse Edgar Quispe for
expenses incurred representing Sugar Labs at the Traducción e
interpretación en las lenguas originarias del Perú meeting in Lima.
The cost is $168.88. (See
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2016-May/018196.html)

AGREED MOTION 2016-19: To pay for laboratoriosazucar.org domain
registration renewal

AGREED MOTION 2016-14: To fund a program to initiate the translation
of Sugar into Yoruba. The work would be led by Samson Goddy and
reviewed by Chris Leonard, in his role as Translation Community
Manager (See 
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2016-May/052588.html)

AGREED MOTION 2016-13 Dave Crossland: To update the Sugar License from
GPLv2 to GPLv3 
(http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2016-May/052588.html)
.



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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 99, Issue 115

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Dave,

I am new to the Board, but in most organizations they are specified in 
the bylaws (which I must confess I have never seen). In the absence, 
most organizations use Robert's Rules of Order.


Tony

On 06/30/2016 06:40 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:

On 30 June 2016 at 12:07, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:

According to standard rules of order

Where are these?
.



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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 99, Issue 115

[Tony Anderson]

Dave,

AFIK, it is true. Do you have any reference to show that the Sugar Labs 
Board has any different bylaws? I am new to the Board
and so at some historical point, the normal rules of order could have 
been changed.


The motion was not made by Sebastian, but by Walter. I think you need to 
re-read the log of the meeting. Non-members of the Board are welcome to 
propose actions by the Board, but Board members must take the action, if 
they so chose.


The vote by 'private thread' is not a Benghazi conspiracy theory. There 
is no one on the Board who is conspriing to keep secrets from the 
membership.
I really think your persistence in accusing the Board of conspiracy is 
out of line.


Tony

On 06/30/2016 06:33 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:

On 30 June 2016 at 12:07, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:

I posted no motion on June 4.
...
Making a comment is not a motion.

My apologies; you drafted it and I posted it in thread "Motion: to
undertake a fund raising drive." and it was not seconded.


According to standard rules of order, a motion must be 'moved' by
a member of the Board.

As far as I know, this is false.

Here is a copy of my earlier email which you did not respond to in your reply:

--- 8< ---

In http://www.mail-archive.com/iaep%40lists.sugarlabs.org/msg16403.html
Walter notes that

(a) the GPL motion - **which you voted to approve** - was submitted

(i) by email, and

(ii) by Sebastian, not a SLOB member, and

(b) it was voted on in a private thread on the SLOBs list, which
Walter regretfully informs us he forgot to CC to the lists.

--- 8< ---

I would like you to comment on these 4 points :)
.



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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 99, Issue 115

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

I posted no motion on June 4. According to standard rules of order, a 
motion must be 'moved' by a member of the Board. Making a comment is not 
a motion.


Tony

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: [Sugar-devel] [SLOB] meeting reminder (Dave Crossland)
2. Re: Simplified Version of A & B for Tomorrow's Meeting
   (Dave Crossland)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:47:55 -0400
From: Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com>
To: Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net>
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs <iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org>, sugar-devel
<sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org>
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [SLOB] meeting reminder
Message-ID:
<caeozd0zpjw_sf9_tkwn2zhu82oq75nxbobzfcnjfr_juzgh...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 30 June 2016 at 06:56, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:

I hope Chris Leonard's report will include the present status of his
arrangements with the Conservancy (is he officially on board, has he been
paid his stipend for May or for June? I would also like the report to
include the present status of the Nigerian project. In particular was the
first milestone met (setup) and payment made?

Chris, I would also like to see any and all material you have prepared
for the blog :)


I hope that Adam or someone will be able to report on our financial 'month'
with starting balance, revenue and expenses during the period, and ending
balance.

Me too :)


I am opposed to the second motion in the agenda.

My objections are:

(1) The only method to implement a donation is to write a paper check and
send it to the Conservancy. There is an attempt to provide a 'donate' option
to the Sugar Labs website, but I believe it has not been implemented.

I do not think that SLOB should be bothered with motions about which
methods of donation are permitted, and which are currently
implemented. That is a matter for Conservancy to decide and its Member
Projects should allow for funds to be accepted to their earmarked
funds with any of those methods; and it is up to the project's members
to implement the methods.


(2) Such a fund-raising activity should have a target amount. As far as know
this goal has not been set.

I agree that  fund-raising activity should have a target amount.

You posted a motion on June 4th:

"to undertake a fund raising drive. Arrangements will be made to
enable on-line contributions by PayPal, debit or credit card or other
means. Once the means to make contributions is in place, the Financial
Manager will initiate and lead the drive. The Sugar Labs web site will
show progress in donations toward the goal."

This was not seconded.

Lionel then called for motions to be minimised.

I therefore expect to carry out fund raising activities without making
motions to SLOBs for approval, and without a Finance Manager
appointed, since it seems no one at SLOBs is interested in giving
meaningful feedback on either motions about fund raising or about the
FM position.

I will take into account feedback offered to me by other members.


(3) I have no problem requesting each member to make a donation in an amount
they can afford. However, I strongly object asking members to identify
themselves as not having the means to make a donation of a specfied amount.
A statement like 'In order to meet our financial goal for the year, members
should try to donate at least $50 although donations in any amount are
welcome' would be acceptable.

Sounds good!


(4) We could identify donors of say $100 or more as sponsors or partners or
associates or sustaining members, There are many such designations
available.

Sure


The 'prominent placement' and 'release codename' are not acceptable without
clarification.

Cool, when I get there I'll let the community know


According to Dave Crossland, Caryl Bigenho wants the motion on the Financial
Manager to be on the agenda. Has she withdrawn her propsoed motion.

No, we haven't heard from her. I have now taken the liberty of posting
the 2 motions with my suggestions which she did not review.


--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:54:15 -0400
From: Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com>
To: Caryl Bigenho <cbige...@hotmail.com>
Cc: Adam Holt <h...@unleashkids.org>, samson goddy
<samsongo...@hotmail.com>, José Miguel Ga

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

Can you identify these motions. Most of the votes were cast at the 
meetings. As far as I remember there were two email votes.


Tony

On 06/27/2016 04:14 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:

On 27 June 2016 at 09:24, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:

If it is useful.

It surely is


Why do you care for specific emails for specific votes?

Transparency


Do you have any specific motions where there is concern about
whether it passed?

Each motion where I can not observe each vote is a grave concern for me
.



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[IAEP] Oversight Board Meeting

[Tony Anderson]

Based on the level of discussion in the email lists, there is apparently 
no longer any interest in having a Financial Manager or a Vision 
statement as topics for

Friday's meeting.


Tony
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

If it is useful. Why do you care for specific emails for specific votes? 
Do you have any specific motions where there is concern about

whether it passed?

Tony

On 06/27/2016 02:42 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:

Hi Tony

On 21 June 2016 at 23:00, Dave Crossland  wrote:

Please provide me with 7 links to 7 emails on a public mailing list
from 2016-05-05 to 2016-05-12 for each of the votes for this motion
that you say you are aware of.

Would you be willing to do this?

Cheers
Dave
.



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[IAEP] Sugar Vision

[Tony Anderson]

Yet another try.


Sugar Labs develops and supports Sugar. Sugar is a software system 
inspired by Alan Kay's Dynabook vision of a personal portable computer 
for children.
While originally designed and implemented for the One Laptop per Child 
XO laptop, Sugar is available to anyone (GPLv3) and for any computer 
supporting GNU/Linux or a standards-compliant browser.


Sugar provides a library of programs called activities. Anyone can 
contribute to this library including the children themselves. Sugar 
enables children to use these activities to learn both individually and 
by working with others. Sugar and its activities use icons to minimize 
dependency on text while supporting text in the child's own language. 
Activities offer a simple and consistent interface so skills discovered 
in one activity can be applied in another.


Sugar is designed to promote creation of new work which is saved in a 
single location, the Journal. The Journal provides easy access to 
inexperienced users. It enables users to see what they have created and 
to enrich these creations as their skills mature.


Tony
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Motion: to consider email votes on motions only valid if they are sent to both the SLOBs and IAEP mailing lists.

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Adam

I don't think this is relevant to this motion. Clearly, if such a 
negotiation were to happen, the Board could move to consider the
matter in 'executive session'. In the meantime, there is no reason not 
to make votes public (and the discussion of them in the meetings

which is already public.)

Tony

On 06/21/2016 05:41 PM, Adam Holt wrote:
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Walter Bender 
> wrote:


On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Dave Crossland > wrote:

Hi

I would appreciate public consideration of this motion by each
member of SLOB.

On 7 June 2016 at 10:00, Dave Crossland > wrote:

Motion: to consider email votes on motions only valid if
they are sent
to both the SLOBs and IAEP mailing lists.




-- 
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It is my belief (hope) that the only time a vote is only sent to
one list rather than both is when there is an oversight by the
sender. Vote should be public,


Should but not must.

There can be (have been, and might be in future be) times when Sugar 
Labs needs in-the-interim-confidential negotiations with 
billion-dollar sponsor/ally governments and orgs or all kinds.


Naturally merger/acquisition or multimillion-dollar sponsorship 
situations affect almost everyone, who cannot all be at the 
negotiating table, nor can all Board members cannot possibly always agree.


Hence it's generally a legal/fiduciary responsibility of the Executive 
Director (or similar) to consult privately with the Board in these 
kinds of high-stakes situations -- keeping as many as possible 
apprised of deliberations -- while preserving interim confidentiality 
wherever and whenever necessary to protect the full/strategic 
interests of 501(c)3 Sugar Labs.


but if the vote is forwarded to both lists after the fact, it
should still be valid.

-walter

-- 
Walter Bender

Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org


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http://unleashkids.org !



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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Motion to update current SL vision statement

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

It describes what we do. A mission statement usually describes the 
organizations goal, what it is trying to accomplish.


Tony

On 06/20/2016 05:17 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:


Hi

On 20 June 2016 at 03:23, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:



I disagree completely with this statement as a vision for Sugar Labs.


You already said that, but I am concerned with your position on the 
original. Laura quoted this in her email above, and it is on the wiki 
at https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Mission


"About Sugar Labs(R): Sugar Labs(R) is a volunteer-driven member 
project of Software Freedom Conservancy, a nonprofit corporation. 
Originally part of the One Laptop Per Child project, Sugar Labs 
coordinates volunteers around the world who are passionate about 
providing educational opportunities to children through the Sugar 
Learning Platform. Sugar Labs(R) is supported by donations and is 
seeking funding to accelerate development."


Do you have any issue with this statement?

--
Cheers
Dave


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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Oversight Board decisions page

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

On 06/20/2016 05:20 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Adam asked me to diligently maintain the list of SLOB decisions going
forwards, that Walter had put together from archives, at
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Decisions


I have reviewed this page. You have numbered the motions beginning with 
2016-1. There are missing numbers after 14. However, a

quick reading shows the board to have made decisive action on the motions.

One change I would like to see to this page. Mark pending motions as 
'proposed' or 'pending' and indicate who has submitted the motion.
Use the actual wording of the motion (normally shown in the Board 
meeting public log). For pending motions, use the words by the member who

proposed it, with their name and the date submitted (or last amended).

In many cases you have marked several motions as failed which were not 
made to the Board. (example, Motion 'B' 2016-28,29,30).


The dates above the motions do not seem to correspond to Board meeting 
dates. According to the approved motion 2016-3,


'Restrict email voting to 1 week going forward, to remove confusion from 
the current voting process, keeping focus.'


I had understood this to mean that urgent or emergency motions would be 
made on the SLOBs list and would be decided by email vote within
one week of the motion being moved and seconded. However, I have no 
recollection of this process being followed for most of the dates you give

for failed motions.

If I read this page correctly, you believe there are no pending motions. 
All motions are shown as agreed or failed.


Tony
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Motion to update current SL vision statement

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Laura

Unfortunately, this is not my vision of Sugar Labs or Sugar. I see Sugar 
as an educational opportunity provided to users of the OLPC XO
and others. Naturally, it takes software engineers to develop and 
maintain this software, but the vision must be about the result - Sugar 
and the

benefits if offers in an educational setting.

Tony

On 06/19/2016 05:06 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:

Hi

I would appreciate public consideration of this motion by each member 
of SLOB.


On 3 June 2016 at 14:25, Laura Vargas > wrote:


I hereby propose the motion to update current SL vision statement:

"About Sugar Labs(R): Sugar Labs(R) is a volunteer-driven member
project of Software Freedom Conservancy, a nonprofit corporation.
Originally part of the One Laptop Per Child project, Sugar Labs
coordinates volunteers around the world who are passionate about
providing educational opportunities to children through the Sugar
Learning Platform. Sugar Labs(R) is supported by donations and is
seeking funding to accelerate development."

To the new proposed text:

"Sugar Labs is a global community where you can learn how to
design, develop and deploy high-quality Free/LibreSoftware that
facilitates self-discovery learning experiences and collaboration
among young children of all continents."

What is the problem we are trying to solve?

- Current Vision Statement is not wrong – but certainly is not
inspiring or unique.
- Current Vision fails to define what we do as an output: we
provide infrastructure so that a community of people can produce
and deliver software to children.
- Current Vision fails to identify our unique "selling"
points: self-discovery learning experiences and collaboration
among young children of all continents.

Blessings and thank you very much for your attention.
-- 
Laura V.

I SomosAZUCAR.Org

Identi.ca/Skype acaire
IRC kaametza

Happy Learning!


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--
Cheers
Dave


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Re: [IAEP] SLOBS Meeting

[Tony Anderson]

Sean,

I understand the need is to have a financial report at each monthly 
meeting reporting on starting balance, amount received, amount paid, and 
ending
balance. This is under the control of SFC. Adam is our liason to SFC. So 
I think it is appropriate that he make this report.


Currently, there is no income, expenses are one-two transactions, and so 
such a report should be easy to make.


Tony

On 06/17/2016 05:35 PM, Sean DALY wrote:


On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Dave Crossland > wrote:


I'm confused ;D Do you want a volunteer, or do you want Adam to do
it? 




Is Adam's role preparing periodic finance status reports? Sorry if I 
missed that.

Sean



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Re: [IAEP] SLOBS Meeting

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

I don't understand your confusion. Currently Adam Holt has assumed 
responsibility for liason with SFC. SFC is responsible for managing SL's 
finances.
If you volunteer to take Adam's role, then we need to find out if he is 
willing to turn it over to you and then take the necessary steps to 
formalize this

relationship with SFC.

Tony

On 06/17/2016 05:16 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:15:22 -0400
From: Dave Crossland<d...@lab6.com>
To: Tony Anderson<tony_ander...@usa.net>
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs<iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org>, SLOBs
<sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org>
Subject: Re: [IAEP] SLOBS Meeting
Message-ID:
<caeozd0wqsq5choqdzeqf-mwh6amnfvq+xzkzvpoankxarxp...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On 17 June 2016 at 11:12, Tony Anderson<tony_ander...@usa.net>  wrote:


>I appreciate your enthusiasm. However, I wonder how this will work with
>Adam Holt as our liason with SFC and with SFC being our accountant.
>

I'm confused ;D Do you want a volunteer, or do you want Adam to do it?


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Re: [IAEP] SLOBS Meeting

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

I appreciate your enthusiasm. However, I wonder how this will work with 
Adam Holt as our liason with SFC and with SFC being our accountant.


Tony

On 06/17/2016 03:39 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:


On 17 June 2016 at 06:37, Sean DALY > wrote:


Concerning a Finance Manager, in my view the priority should be
finding a volunteer to step up.


I volunteer.


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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 99, Issue 60

[Tony Anderson]

I had a chance to skim through the log of this meeting.

I believe the discussion overlooks a fundamental point. The XOs (and 
particularly the XO-1s) are primarily deployed in
the developing world (Latin America and Africa). The schools have these 
laptops as donations or as purchases by their
government. Schools, in general, do not have funds to replace computers. 
They will just do without.


We must continue to provide an XO solution (including XO-1 which 
represents a plurality of the machines shipped). It really doesn't
matter in choosing a computer supports the latest gtk or webkit2 when 
the alternative is no computer at all. If we abandon support
for the XO, we present the user with static software which will continue 
to work as long as the hardware survives. However, it will
not be able to take advantage of any new capability that Sugar Labs 
develops.


I think we should recognize our obligation to support users of the XO as 
long as they are in use. This will probably mean that we
need to split ASLO to identify Sugar activities that won't work on the 
XO (and try to make as many new capabilities available for the

XO even if that means two versions).

Also, while I agree that supporting Chromebooks or other computers 
generally available in the marketplace is a valuable direction, we need to
be cautious. Currently, computer manufacturers have a two-year product 
life from announcement to end of production. They assume that
computers will be replaced after five years. Their interest is in 
shortening these cycles. The smartphone folks seem to want this cycle to 
be one

year and to take back the previous year's computer to get it off the market.

In this context, I think adopting a reference design or assuming that 
older computers can be recycled will just repeat the issues with the XO.


Sugar has an interesting structure. There is Sugar (now being referred 
to as a desktop which is ironic since the Sugar HIG were intended to
replace the desktop metaphor) and the Sugar activities. The real value 
of Sugar is the library of activities (and the capabilities they offer
through Sugar features such as the Journal, Collaboration, and HIG). 
Perhaps we could fork Sugar with a 0.106 baseline for the XO and a 0.110
baseline for other platforms. Then we could have ASLO represent which 
activities work with each of the two versions.


Perhaps, we could call one version Sugar XO and the other Sugar desktop.

I am also struck by the reaction to the offer of 172 XO-1s on ebay. My 
curiosity is to know the provenance of these XOs. They are clearly from a
deployment (charging racks). Where were they deployed? Why did the 
deployment render them surplus? What has that deployment done instead?


If we can finance the purchase, we should certainly do it. Out of 172 
units we could probably get 50% working. The spare parts can be very 
helpful
to deployments still trying to keep an inventory of XO-1s working 
(replace screens, keyboards, batteries, and so on).


Tony



On 06/14/2016 06:00 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total
   (Dave Crossland)
2. Sugar Labs Vision Discussion in 6 hours (Dave Crossland)
3. Re: 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total (Sean DALY)
4. Re: 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total
   (Dave Crossland)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 09:38:25 -0400
From: Dave Crossland 
To: Sean DALY 
Cc: A Holt , Sugar Labs Marketing
, iaep ,
Samuel Greenfeld 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 14 June 2016 at 09:16, Sean DALY  wrote:

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

That color combination has been very widely copied, even today.

I think the amount of copying ought to be seen as a metrics of success
for a brand.

Sure, except it dilutes the brand.

I am asserting that this dilution is a positive outcome - in the age
of cheap social media and memes, brands don't have control as they did
in the age of expensive mass media; and per the medium is the message
and all that, 

Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 99, Issue 16

[Tony Anderson]

Dave

Please compare the current version with the original proposed by Lionel 
Laske or yours before the goals were separated from the Vision or the
one proposed by Laura. Do you think that there is wide-spread agreement 
on the statement or that there has been no change in the past two

months?

When a motion fails to achieve a second, there is a reason. After 
discussion and rewriting, the motion to distribute funds to the mentors 
got my

second immediately.

The purpose of the Board meeting is to conduct the business of Sugar 
Labs. Note: at the last meeting, the emphasis on voting on a series of 
motions

resulted in no report from the Translation Community Manager.

Tony

On 06/05/2016 07:02 AM, Dave Crossland wrote:


Hi

On 4 June 2016 at 03:35, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


This discussion of procedures misses the point. Board meetings are
not for the purpose of voting yea/nea on motions.


What do you think the purposes of the board meetings are, then?

A majority of the Board members commented on these motions before
the meeting. These comments were consistent with the comments made
at the meeting with a couple of exceptions. We need to come to a
consensus on the motions before they are presented to the Board.


I disagree completely :) This is not a Quaker Meeting House! :) 
Consensus is explicitly not required: Motions can pass if 1 board 
member is willing to second the motion and 4 affirmative votes 
(majority of 7 seats) are made.


With the exception of motions to authorize payments, I don't see
that any of these motions have an urgency that justifies their
being passed immediately nor any harm to Sugar Labs resulting from
their not being passed on June 3.


I suggest you refer to Walter's email to understand the harm that has 
been done.


I appreciate the work and enthusiasm that you have brought to the
Vision motion. However, I don't understand your apparent
insensitivity to the obvious fact that these issues are very
important to the community and deserve the time needed to obtain
community understanding and commitment.

You have provided a valuable framework in which to have these
discussions and that is a major contribution. I hope that when the
community discussion has reached consensus on the wording of a
vision statement that you will be happy with the result and proud
of your contribution to it.


The community has had TWO MONTHS to get involved so far. How much time 
do you think is needed?


Perhaps I should be drafting a 2017 vision?

--
Cheers
Dave


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Re: [IAEP] Motion: to vote on each motion proposed by a, member

[Tony Anderson]

Sebastian,

Please identify a motion proposed by a member which has not been 
considered.


Naturally, consideration of a proposal is not necessarily approval.

Tony

On 06/04/2016 06:00 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Motion: to vote on each motion proposed by a member
   (Sebastian Silva)
2. Re: Sugar/OLPC Relations (Dave Crossland)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 10:39:39 -0500
From: Sebastian Silva 
To: Dave Crossland , SLOBs ,
iaep 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Motion: to vote on each motion proposed by a
member
Message-ID: <9ff0e258-8e0b-9a0e-f375-f038172b8...@fuentelibre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I too would support this motion. If people want to be SLOBs they should
consider community proposals not just their own ideas.


El 03/06/16 a las 17:59, Dave Crossland escribió:

Motion: to vote on each motion proposed by a member, dropping the
current practice of requiring a seconding before moving to a vote.


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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 09:53:36 -0600
From: Dave Crossland 
To: Samuel Greenfeld 
Cc: IAEP SugarLabs 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Sugar/OLPC Relations
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On 4 June 2016 at 09:35, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:


when I was discussing this with Peter a while back


Peter who? :)
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Subject: Digest Footer

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End of IAEP Digest, Vol 99, Issue 20



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Re: [IAEP] IAEP Digest, Vol 99, Issue 16

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

This discussion of procedures misses the point. Board meetings are not 
for the purpose of voting yea/nea on motions. A majority of the Board 
members
commented on these motions before the meeting. These comments were 
consistent with the comments made at the meeting with a couple of 
exceptions.


We need to come to a consensus on the motions before they are presented 
to the Board. With the exception of motions to authorize payments, I 
don't see that any of these motions have an urgency that justifies their 
being passed immediately nor any harm to Sugar Labs resulting from their 
not being passed on June 3.


I appreciate the work and enthusiasm that you have brought to the Vision 
motion. However, I don't understand your apparent insensitivity to the 
obvious fact that these issues are very important to the community and 
deserve the time needed to obtain community understanding and commitment.


You have provided a valuable framework in which to have these 
discussions and that is a major contribution. I hope that when the 
community discussion has reached consensus on the wording of a vision 
statement that you will be happy with the result and proud of your 
contribution to it.


Tony

On 06/04/2016 05:46 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 21:42:41 -0600
From: Dave Crossland
To: Walter Bender
Cc: iaep, SLOBs
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Motion: to vote on each motion proposed by
a   member
Message-ID:

Re: [IAEP] Motion to adopt the 2016 vision for Sugar Labs

[Tony Anderson]

I believe Sugar is intended to enable a computer to provide enhanced 
educational opportunities; especially to those who have limited access to
the Internet. One goal of Sugar is to bring to reality the educational 
concepts of Seymour Papert and Alan Kay.


Tony

On 06/03/2016 11:28 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 08:57:29 -0600
From: Dave Crossland
To: Laura Vargas
Cc: iaep, SLOBs
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Motion to adopt the 2016 vision for Sugar Labs
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi

I understood that the one-liner statement is a 'mission statement,'
and the 'vision statement' is the longer text that expresses the
details implied by the mission, the high level goals, and more
specific values.

The article you mention,
https://www.executestrategy.net/blog/write-good-vision-statement  , has
a good 'funnel' diagram showing this, with blocks for "values."

Here's a nice list of non profit mission statements:
https://topnonprofits.com/examples/nonprofit-mission-statements/

So I propose to adopt the following statement as the mission
statement, starting from your text and taking Sean's comments into
account:

To be a welcoming global community where anyone can learn how to
develop high-quality libre software that facilitates learning through
self-discovery and collaboration among young children of all
continents, and to make that software easily available to learners and
teachers.

Cheers
Dave


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Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Caryl

I totally agree. We should not require dues. We can ask for donations.

While the story is confused, my understanding is that the funds which 
you described as 'carelessly disbursed' were from a grant and not from 
donations to Sugar Labs.


Tony

On 05/24/2016 08:40 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote:

Hi All….

Busy time for us so I haven't had a chance to chime in on the motion 
for "dues." I personally do not care to contribute any unearmarked 
funds to SugarLabs. I am not at all pleased at the way funds have been 
carelessly disbursed to a select few in the past and feel no need to 
send my good money off to be used in a similar fashion.


Every year at tax time we enumerate our contributions in support of 
SugarLabs, and other sub-organizations, and I can assure you they are 
substantial They include such things as expenses to attend 
conferences, booth banners, printing costs for hand-outs etc. We reach 
hundreds of potential Sugar users and, occasionally, potential Sugar 
 "contributors."


Meanwhile, SugarLabs funds are freely distributed to others to cover 
their expenses to do similar things and other things that have far 
smaller "returns on investment." So, although I cannot vote on this 
(since I am not a member of SLOB), I do want to voice my opposition to 
this motion.


I am not alone in this.

I think if it passes you will lose many members who are strong 
supporters of Sugar and open source but feel, as I do, that SugarLabs 
is not the only way to do it. Put simply, they will "vote with their 
feet."


I have no objection to contributing something "in kind" in lieu of 
dues… a new banner, some clever swag or the like to use in marketing 
Sugar and SugarLabs. But, dues… no thanks!


Caryl


From: d...@lab6.com
Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 10:00:14 -0400
To: tony_ander...@usa.net
CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership 
Donations + Public Statements


Hi!

On 23 May 2016 at 09:44, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


I am not aware of any method to donate money to Sugar Labs. I
understand we need to make the donations to SFC and somehow have
the money arrive in our funds.


That's right.

The #1 service for member projects listed at 
http://sfconservancy.org/members/services/ is:


*Tax-Deductible, Earmarked Donations*

Member projects can receive earmarked donations through
Conservancy. Since Conservancy is a 501(c)(3) charity incorporated
in New York, donors can often deduct the donation on their USA
taxes. Additionally, the donors can indicate that their donation
should be used to advance a specific member project, and those
funds are kept in a separate account for the member project by
Conservancy. This structure prevents developers from having to
commingle project funds with their own personal accounts or having
to set up their own project specific account.

Since Conservancy is a tax-exempt organization, there are some
limits that the law places on what member projects can do with
their assets, but those limits are the same as if the project was
an independent non-profit entity. Usually, the project leadership
instructs Conservancy's leadership on how the project's funds are
spent. Conservancy spends these funds on the project's behalf on
any expenses that constitute appropriate activity under
Conservancy's 501(c)(3) not-for-profit mission. Some typical uses
of earmarked donations by Conservancy's member projects are:

  o funding travel expenses for project developers to attend
relevant conferences.
  o domain name fees, bandwidth costs, and computer equipment
purchases.
  o purchasing media for distribution of project software at
conferences and events.
  o paying key developers on a contractual basis to improve the
project's software and its documentation.
  o sponsoring and organizing conferences for the project.
  o trademark registration and enforcement.
  o FLOSS license enforcement and compliance activity.


http://sfconservancy.org/donate/ says,

*Donate to Our Member Projects*


Finally, Conservancy also maintains directed donation programs for
its member projects. Donation links for these directed donation
programs are typically found on the individual websites of our
members.


https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Donate says,

Mail us a check

Please make your check payable to:


Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc.

and place this note in the memo field:


Directed donation: Sugar Labs

Checks should then be mailed to:


Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc.

137 MONTAGUE ST STE 380

Brooklyn, NY 11201-3548

USA


This needs to be made very cl

Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

I am not aware of any method to donate money to Sugar Labs. I understand 
we need to make the donations to SFC and somehow have the money

arrive in our funds. This needs to be made very clear on the web site.

I am not referring to 'lying', I am referring to asking the question. If 
it is a donation, a person can donate what they feel comfortable with.


Tony

On 05/23/2016 03:24 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:


Hi

On 23 May 2016 at 09:07, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


I agree completely. However, if the donations are requested, I
think we should suggest 'typical' amounts.


Both my and Sean's motions include suggested amounts :)

This is a world-wide organization so we need to be careful about
defining 'self-identifying as low-income'.


Why? Anyone can lie about it, and that's totally fine with me.

So I would amend the motion to

Motion: To request donations from Sugar Labs Members and the
general public, to be allocated to the General Fund through the
SFC. A simple payment method will be implemented (e.g. Pay Pal,
credit/debit cards) ensuring tax-exemption where possible.


We don't need a motion to solicit general donations, nor state that a 
simple payment method will be implemented, because we already do both 
of those things :)


--
Cheers
Dave


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[IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Tony Anderson]

I agree completely. However, if the donations are requested, I think we 
should suggest 'typical' amounts. This is a world-wide organization so 
we need

to be careful about defining 'self-identifying as low-income'.

So I would amend the motion to

Motion: To request donations from Sugar Labs Members and the general 
public, to be allocated to the General Fund through the SFC. A simple 
payment method will be implemented (e.g. Pay Pal, credit/debit cards) 
ensuring tax-exemption where possible.


Tony

On 05/23/2016 10:42 AM, Sean DALY wrote:
Handing over marketing to anyone with a deep pocket is 
incomprehensible to me, I'd much rather just see "gold sponsor status" 
or something similar. Do people really need the recognition?


I'm also confused about the public statement bit - don't we already 
have member pages? Important contributions are made by members who 
already donate their time and would perhaps prefer not to donate funds 
too, do they get to do a public statement?


Social media offers a very effective means for microdonation 
fundraising drives, and we haven't done that yet. As I understand it, 
this is more like voluntary membership dues - a fundraising drive 
(which would be associated with a tangible goal, e.g. an alternate 
hardware platform) would be separate.


In my view, requesting conditions or offering perks shouldn't be 
associated with voluntary membership dues. I'd prefer the following:


Motion: To request donations from Sugar Labs Members, to be allocated 
to the General Fund through the SFC. The annual donation requested 
will be $12 USD from members who self-identify as low-income (such as 
students); $36, $120, or $600 USD from general members.


Sean



On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 8:05 PM, Dave Crossland > wrote:



Hi

Motion: To request a membership donation from each currently
active Sugar Labs Member to be allocated to the General Fund for
the calendar year of 2016, and a public statement about how they
use Sugar and why they are involved in Sugar Labs to post on the
website; there is no penalty for not paying a membership or not
providing a statement; by default members who donate will be kept
private, and requested to opt-in to be recognised. The donation
requested will be $12 USD from members who self-identify as
low-income (such as students); $36 USD from general members; $120
from members who can opt-in to be placed prominently on the
website; and $600 from members who can (privately if they wish)
submit a release codename, subject to SLOB approval.

--
Cheers
Dave

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Re: [IAEP] Windows is Coming

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Sean,

Do you mean commands written in text? The question may be whether Ubuntu 
programs can be started from a shortcut but I don't see how that would
not be possible. The information I read did not imply starting an os 
(although I suppose that could be done by a vm). What I read was that this
capability was an alternative to Cygwin. I don't have any hands-on 
experience to judge the quality of the MS/Ubuntu partnership.


However, I think the main point is that Sugar probably can be run in 
Windows 10 starting with the Ubuntu Sugar base. This might be a good 
project
for someone. One major advantage is that it would make it possible to 
demonstrate the capabilities of Sugar on a Windows machine for prospective

sponsors of olpc/Sugar deployments.

Tony

On 05/20/2016 12:37 PM, Sean DALY wrote:


On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


Windows 10 is making Ubuntu programs available by the command line
- which could be shortcuts.


Tony - text mode commandline only AFAIK, and Cygwin likely a better 
implementation


Sean



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Re: [IAEP] Sugar network/ School Network (Laura Vargas)

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Sebastian and Laura

Thanks, that clarifies things greatly.

Tony

On 05/20/2016 09:27 AM, Sebastian Silva wrote:

El 20/05/16 a las 01:40, Tony Anderson escribió:


Hi, Laura

I am sorry but that leaves me still unclear on the dependence on the
internet. If each machine becomes a node, why is it necessary for it
to be a server? Where is the main node? Where are the content resources?

Tony

Hi Tony,

I can respond the more technical aspects. The node service provides the
same API when running locally as it does when acting as a server. This
is so that clients can interact with the Sugar Network even when
completely disconnected. When a node is acting as server, it will
synchronize content resources with nodes acting as clients. Each client
node has a resource cache of limited size. For example, clients may
choose to 'keep' a Sugar activity for using offline. Aleksey tweaked the
node for performance under low memory and disk space conditions (even on
XO1).

The full set of content resources resides in the node acting as server.
This is the only difference. Server nodes have been designed to sync
with each other. Currently there is a node server running on
node.sugarlabs.org, with a front-end running at
http://network.sugarlabs.org/ . This node is what Laura calls the `main
node`. It is running exactly the same software as we have on each XO,
and currently provides service for thousands of XOs. We haven't worked
directly in schools to deploy local server nodes, but conceivably, we could.

Regards,
Sebastian
.



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