subject:"Re\: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment"

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-05 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 07:17:38 -0700, Scott Ford  wrote:

Here my example I was referring to initially..
 
Execution JCL:
 
typedef struct IRXJCL_type
{
  short int arg_length;
  char argument[22];
} IRXJCL_type;

    puts(this_param.argument);
  
IDFRACFC USER AA1122BB
 
Without the memset in this example the C code fails. I am not the C heavy a lot 
of folks are here,
but the ILC manual pretty much shows the same thing in examples going from C - 
Cobol - C ..
 
I count 22 characters in your output.  That plus a terminating \0 is 23,
overflowing a 22-character buffer.  It's remains a mystery that the
memset() (not quoted) changes this.

-- gil

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-05 Thread Charles Mills

dest needs to be 23 chars long in order to hold 22 usable characters plus a 
terminator.

This is the hazard of strcpy and strcat. You have a real hazardous program 
here. What if I executed it with 
PARM='NOWISTHETIMEFORALLGOODMEN TOCOMETOTHEAIDOFTHEPARTY'
?

Look into STL std::string.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Scott Ford
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

Here my example I was referring to initially..
 
Execution JCL:
 
//REXXC   JOB SYSTEMS,CLASS=A,MSGCLASS=X, //  
MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=4096K,NOTIFY=SYSUID
//STEP1   EXEC  PGM=TESTR1,PARM=('USER AA1122BB') //STEPLIB  DD 
DISP=SHR,DSN=SFORD.LINKLIB //SYSEXEC  DD DISP=SHR,DSN=IDF.CLISTLIB //SYSTSPRT 
DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSUDUMP DD SYSOUT=* //SYSTSIN  DD DUMMY
/*
-
C Program 
 
#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
#include string.h
typedef struct IRXJCL_type
{
  short int arg_length;
  char argument[22];
} IRXJCL_type;
IRXJCL_type this_param;
IRXJCL_type* param_ptr;
main(int argc, char *argv[])
  {
char dest[22];
int i = 1;
int s1;
memset(this_param.argument,'',sizeof(this_param.argument));
strcpy(dest,IDFRACFC );
strcat(dest,argv[1]);
strcat(dest, );
strcat(dest,argv[2]);
strcat(dest, );
strcpy(this_param.argument,dest);
puts(this_param.argument);
}
Output of Execution:
   J E S 2  J O B  L O G  --  S Y S T E M  A D C D  --  N O
 
08.13.47 JOB00170  WEDNESDAY, 05 SEP 2012 
08.13.47 JOB00170  IRR010I  USERID SFORDIS ASSIGNED TO THIS JOB.
08.13.47 JOB00170  ICH70001I SFORDLAST ACCESS AT 08:09:12 ON WEDNESDAY, SEPT
08.13.47 JOB00170  $HASP373 REXXCSTARTED - INIT 1- CLASS A - SYS ADCD
08.13.47 JOB00170  IEF403I REXXC - STARTED - TIME=08.13.47
08.13.48 JOB00170  IEF404I REXXC - ENDED - TIME=08.13.48
08.13.48 JOB00170  $HASP395 REXXCENDED
-- JES2 JOB STATISTICS --
  05 SEP 2012 JOB EXECUTION DATE
   10 CARDS READ
   51 SYSOUT PRINT RECORDS
0 SYSOUT PUNCH RECORDS
3 SYSOUT SPOOL KBYTES
 0.01 MINUTES EXECUTION TIME
 //  MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=4096K,NOTIFY=SYSUID
  IEFC653I SUBSTITUTION JCL - SYSTEMS,CLASS=A,MSGCLASS=X,MSGLEVEL=(1,1),
2 //STEP1   EXEC  PGM=TESTR1,PARM=('USER AA1122BB')
3 //STEPLIB  DD DISP=SHR,DSN=SFORD.LINKLIB
4 //SYSEXEC  DD DISP=SHR,DSN=IDF.PROD.ORA9421.CLISTLIB
5 //SYSTSPRT DD SYSOUT=*
6 //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
7 //SYSUDUMP DD SYSOUT=*
8 //SYSTSIN  DD DUMMY
  /*
ICH70001I SFORDLAST ACCESS AT 08:09:12 ON WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 5, 2012 
IEF236I ALLOC. FOR REXXC STEP1 IEF237I 0A82 ALLOCATED TO STEPLIB IEF237I 0AA1 
ALLOCATED TO SYSEXEC IEF237I JES2 ALLOCATED TO SYSTSPRT IEF237I JES2 ALLOCATED 
TO SYSPRINT IEF237I JES2 ALLOCATED TO SYSUDUMP IEF237I DMY  ALLOCATED TO 
SYSTSIN IEF142I REXXC STEP1 - STEP WAS EXECUTED - COND CODE  IEF285I   
SFORD.LINKLIBKEPT IEF285I   VOL SER NOS= ZCSYS1.
IEF285I   IDF.PROD.ORA9421.CLISTLIBKEPT IEF285I   VOL SER 
NOS= IDF001.
IEF285I   SFORD.REXXC.JOB00170.D101.?  SYSOUT IEF285I   
SFORD.REXXC.JOB00170.D102.?  SYSOUT IEF285I   
SFORD.REXXC.JOB00170.D103.?  SYSOUT IEF373I STEP/STEP1   /START 
2012249.0813 IEF032I STEP/STEP1   /STOP  2012249.0813
CPU: 0 HR  00 MIN  00.26 SECSRB: 0 HR  00 MIN  00.00 SEC
VIRT:60K  SYS:   476K  EXT: 8264K  SYS:11340K IEF375I  
JOB/REXXC   /START 2012249.0813 IEF033I  JOB/REXXC   /STOP  2012249.0813
CPU: 0 HR  00 MIN  00.26 SECSRB: 0 HR  00 MIN  00.00 SEC
  
IDFRACFC USER AA1122BB
 
Without the memset in this example the C code fails. I am not the C heavy a lot 
of folks are here, but the ILC manual pretty much shows the same thing in 
examples going from C - Cobol - C ..

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-05 Thread Scott Ford

Charles:
 
I get what your saying, this is a test program ..I understand, this is why I am 
asking ok  ?
This is why one asks questions of their collegues..
 
At least where I grew up in corn country .

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com/
 
 


 From: Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
  
dest needs to be 23 chars long in order to hold 22 usable characters plus a 
terminator.

This is the hazard of strcpy and strcat. You have a real hazardous program 
here. What if I executed it with 
PARM='NOWISTHETIMEFORALLGOODMEN TOCOMETOTHEAIDOFTHEPARTY'
?

Look into STL std::string.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Scott Ford
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

Here my example I was referring to initially..

Execution JCL:

//REXXC   JOB SYSTEMS,CLASS=A,MSGCLASS=X, //      
MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=4096K,NOTIFY=SYSUID
//STEP1   EXEC  PGM=TESTR1,PARM=('USER AA1122BB') //STEPLIB  DD 
DISP=SHR,DSN=SFORD.LINKLIB //SYSEXEC  DD DISP=SHR,DSN=IDF.CLISTLIB //SYSTSPRT 
DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSUDUMP DD SYSOUT=* //SYSTSIN  DD DUMMY
/*
-
C Program 

#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
#include string.h
typedef struct IRXJCL_type
{
  short int arg_length;
  char argument[22];
} IRXJCL_type;
IRXJCL_type this_param;
IRXJCL_type* param_ptr;
main(int argc, char *argv[])
  {
    char dest[22];
    int i = 1;
    int s1;
    memset(this_param.argument,'',sizeof(this_param.argument));
    strcpy(dest,IDFRACFC );
    strcat(dest,argv[1]);
    strcat(dest, );
    strcat(dest,argv[2]);
    strcat(dest, );
    strcpy(this_param.argument,dest);
    puts(this_param.argument);
}
Output of Execution:
                       J E S 2  J O B  L O G  --  S Y S T E M  A D C D  --  N O

08.13.47 JOB00170  WEDNESDAY, 05 SEP 2012 
08.13.47 JOB00170  IRR010I  USERID SFORD    IS ASSIGNED TO THIS JOB.
08.13.47 JOB00170  ICH70001I SFORD    LAST ACCESS AT 08:09:12 ON WEDNESDAY, SEPT
08.13.47 JOB00170  $HASP373 REXXC    STARTED - INIT 1    - CLASS A - SYS ADCD
08.13.47 JOB00170  IEF403I REXXC - STARTED - TIME=08.13.47
08.13.48 JOB00170  IEF404I REXXC - ENDED - TIME=08.13.48
08.13.48 JOB00170  $HASP395 REXXC    ENDED
-- JES2 JOB STATISTICS --
  05 SEP 2012 JOB EXECUTION DATE
           10 CARDS READ
           51 SYSOUT PRINT RECORDS
            0 SYSOUT PUNCH RECORDS
            3 SYSOUT SPOOL KBYTES
         0.01 MINUTES EXECUTION TIME
         //      MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=4096K,NOTIFY=SYSUID
          IEFC653I SUBSTITUTION JCL - SYSTEMS,CLASS=A,MSGCLASS=X,MSGLEVEL=(1,1),
        2 //STEP1   EXEC  PGM=TESTR1,PARM=('USER AA1122BB')
        3 //STEPLIB  DD DISP=SHR,DSN=SFORD.LINKLIB
        4 //SYSEXEC  DD DISP=SHR,DSN=IDF.PROD.ORA9421.CLISTLIB
        5 //SYSTSPRT DD SYSOUT=*
        6 //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
        7 //SYSUDUMP DD SYSOUT=*
        8 //SYSTSIN  DD DUMMY
          /*
ICH70001I SFORD    LAST ACCESS AT 08:09:12 ON WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 5, 2012 
IEF236I ALLOC. FOR REXXC STEP1 IEF237I 0A82 ALLOCATED TO STEPLIB IEF237I 0AA1 
ALLOCATED TO SYSEXEC IEF237I JES2 ALLOCATED TO SYSTSPRT IEF237I JES2 ALLOCATED 
TO SYSPRINT IEF237I JES2 ALLOCATED TO SYSUDUMP IEF237I DMY  ALLOCATED TO 
SYSTSIN IEF142I REXXC STEP1 - STEP WAS EXECUTED - COND CODE  IEF285I   
SFORD.LINKLIB                                KEPT IEF285I   VOL SER NOS= ZCSYS1.
IEF285I   IDF.PROD.ORA9421.CLISTLIB                    KEPT IEF285I   VOL SER 
NOS= IDF001.
IEF285I   SFORD.REXXC.JOB00170.D101.?              SYSOUT IEF285I   
SFORD.REXXC.JOB00170.D102.?              SYSOUT IEF285I   
SFORD.REXXC.JOB00170.D103.?              SYSOUT IEF373I STEP/STEP1   /START 
2012249.0813 IEF032I STEP/STEP1   /STOP  2012249.0813
        CPU:     0 HR  00 MIN  00.26 SEC    SRB:     0 HR  00 MIN  00.00 SEC
        VIRT:    60K  SYS:   476K  EXT:     8264K  SYS:    11340K IEF375I  
JOB/REXXC   /START 2012249.0813 IEF033I  JOB/REXXC   /STOP  2012249.0813
        CPU:     0 HR  00 MIN  00.26 SEC    SRB:     0 HR  00 MIN  00.00 SEC
  
IDFRACFC USER AA1122BB

Without the memset in this example the C code fails. I am not the C heavy a lot 
of folks are here, but the ILC manual pretty much shows the same thing in 
examples going from C - Cobol - C ..

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-05 Thread retired mainframer

Since this is perfectly legal C and C++, it seems you should be opening a
PMR with your compiler vendor.

:: -Original Message-
:: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
:: Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
:: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 4:51 PM
:: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
:: Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
::
:: On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 15:01:37 -0400, Thomas David Rivers wrote:
:: 
::cxx: t.c line 3:Error #144: a value of type const char [7] cannot
:: be used to initialize an entity of type char [6]
::  char s6[ 6 ] = wombat;
:: 
:: Is there any convenient way to perform this initialization?  (I don't
:: consider either overallocating the array or enumerating individual
:: chars in a multiple initializer convenient.)

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-05 Thread retired mainframer

The problem with using a pointer instead of an array is that the pointer
points to a string literal and any attempt to modify the literal invokes
undefined behavior.  A statement of the form
 s6[0] = 'x';
is legal with the array but not with the pointer.

The fact that the expression ptr[index] and index[ptr] are both legal and
equivalent is just an idiosyncrasy of the language.  Both will generate the
same code.

:: -Original Message-
:: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
:: Behalf Of McKown, John
:: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 5:35 AM
:: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
:: Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
::
:: What about
::
:: char *s6=wombat;
::
:: ?
::
:: This makes s6 a pointer to the characters
{'w','o','m','b','a','t','\0'}.
:: There is not really any difference between char s6[] and char *s6. You
:: can still do s6[0] which is the same as *s6. And s6[1] which is *(s6+1).
:: s6[n] is just an alternate way to say *(s6+n). Which is identical to
:: *(n+s6). Which is identical to n[s6]. As weird as that may be. I am not
:: sure what C++ would do with that.

snip

::  -Original Message-
::  From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
::  On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
::  Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:51 PM
::  To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
::  Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
:: 
::  On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 15:01:37 -0400, Thomas David Rivers wrote:
::  
:: cxx: t.c line 3:Error #144: a value of type const char [7]
:: cannot
::  be used to initialize an entity of type char [6]
::   char s6[ 6 ] = wombat;
::  
::  Is there any convenient way to perform this initialization?  (I don't
::  consider either overallocating the array or enumerating individual
::  chars in a multiple initializer convenient.)

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-04 Thread Charles Mills

Not sure what you mean.

char[] delimits strings with '\0' in every implementation in the world, I
think.

std::string allows any character and keeps track of length internally.
string::c_str() returns a '\0' terminated char[] everywhere.

I would be interested to see a char[] or std::string program that behaves
differently on z/OS and MS VC++. (I am of course excluding ASCII/EBCDIC
issues, and the contents of uninitialized or corrupted fields.)

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Scott Ford
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

Charles, 

Nope, C expects '0/' z/os delimited strings with x'40 unless you initialize
a field to low values

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

On Sep 3, 2012, at 10:59 PM, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote:

 I think std::string is pretty much identical across gcc, MS VC++, and
XLC++.

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-04 Thread Charles Mills

I had some getting going issues -- many of them simply because I was new to C 
as well as to z/OS C (but not new to z/OS itself).

I have since found it extremely accessible, and found the productivity gain 
over assembler to be addicting.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Shane Ginnane
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 1:28 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 17:11:24 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:

I am somewhat a beginner in C and java, written a Assembler and COBOL. 
I am also talk about C in batch or as a STC. I had to do sine digging to 
understand C threading and being able to Attach and assembler subtasks. One I 
found it good.  There also is a huge difference in writing C in Windoze or 
Linux or Unix and z/OS batch or STC. 

I can only concur. I found getting up to (a decidedly moderate) speed in z/OS C 
was a hard grind. I had no (external) doco, and the nuances of the big-iron 
implementation were a PITA. No background in LE probably didn't help.

Didn't take long to lapse back into assembler, and wash my hands of it 
completely.
Mind you, I'm probably going to have to take a closer look at the zLinux 
source-tree one day ...

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-04 Thread John Gilmore

C does not, at bottom, have strings.  It views them as arrays of
single characters.

When it was realized that this is at best a dubious notion,
nul-delimited strings were grafted on to the structure of C, and the
scar tissue shows.

It is, however, possible to declare a string without specifying its
length, using its initializing value to specify its length implicitly.
 Thus

char animal_name[] = 'wombat' ;

yields a six-character string that occupies seven characters of
storage inclusive of its EOS delimiter, x'00' or nul.

The constructions

char animal_name[5] = {'w','o','m','b','a','t'}
char animal_name[5] = 'wombat' ;

are rejected because their initializing values are incompatible with
their length specifications.

Elsewhere--in PL/I and its dialects, DB2, etc--strings are of two
different sorts, non-varying and varying, are also supported.

Varying strings are prefixed by, usually, a halfword current-length indicator.

Thus in PL/I

declare example character(254) varying ;

yields a string occupying 256 bytes, a halfword prefix followed by at
most 254 value bytes, with

0 = currentlength(example) = 254.


John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-04 Thread Thomas David Rivers


Charles Mills wrote:


Just because you *can* create a malformed string with no delimiter does not 
mean that my statement about proper C behavior is untrue.

It is a true statement that the z architecture stores integers in big-endian 
form. Nonetheless, I *can* create a little-endian

integer on z. That does not make the statement untrue.

BTW, C++ gives an error for the s6[6] = wombat case.

Charles
 



There is a different reason for this error - although it's done on 
purpose.  C++ is
much more strongly typed than C... it checks things more rigourously.  
You can imagine
given the ideas of function overloading, templates, etc... that the type 
system needs this

rigor to properly differentiate things.

The Dignus C++ compiler with this example yields these two error 
messages (which might

be more informative to the programmer):

  cxx: t.c line 3:Error #144: a value of type const char [7] cannot 
be used to initialize an entity of type char [6]

char s6[ 6 ] = wombat;
  cxx: t.c line 6:Error #144: a value of type const char [7] cannot 
be used to initialize an entity of type char [5]

char s5[ 5 ] = wombat;


 - Dave RIvers -

--
riv...@dignus.comWork: (919) 676-0847
Get your mainframe programming tools at http://www.dignus.com

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-04 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 15:01:37 -0400, Thomas David Rivers wrote:

   cxx: t.c line 3:Error #144: a value of type const char [7] cannot
be used to initialize an entity of type char [6]
 char s6[ 6 ] = wombat;
  
Is there any convenient way to perform this initialization?  (I don't
consider either overallocating the array or enumerating individual
chars in a multiple initializer convenient.)

Thanks,
gil

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-04 Thread John Gilmore

I had thought to have answered that question.  The C construct

char text character[] = 'Lincoln''s Doctor''s Dog' ;

does jobs of that sort.

--jg

On 9/4/12, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote:
 On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 15:01:37 -0400, Thomas David Rivers wrote:

   cxx: t.c line 3:Error #144: a value of type const char [7] cannot
be used to initialize an entity of type char [6]
 char s6[ 6 ] = wombat;

 Is there any convenient way to perform this initialization?  (I don't
 consider either overallocating the array or enumerating individual
 chars in a multiple initializer convenient.)

 Thanks,
 gil

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-03 Thread R.S.

W dniu 2012-09-02 18:42, Clark Morris pisze:

[...] COBOL seems to be fading on UNIX and Windows platforms [...]

Oh really? vbg

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-03 Thread John Gilmore

Clark Morris wrote:

begin extract
The costs to an ISV for distributing an application written in COBOL
can be high because of having to pay for a runtime license for each
machine.
end extract/

The use of COBOL as an implementation language by ISVs has always
been, if not exiguous,  very low.  COBOL is a user's language.

Many ISVs take care to ensure that their products are usable from
COBOL, but this is a very different matter.

Moreover, the LE (Language Environment) is already available in all of
the z/OS shops I am familiar with.

Can Mr Morris be thinking of an ISV product implemented in COBOL for
use by non-COBOL shops?  If so, a z/OS shop that purchased such a
product would incur licensing fees iff it wished [and was allowed] to
recompile that product.  This whole scenario is, however, a wildly
improbable one.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-03 Thread Clark Morris

On 3 Sep 2012 09:00:36 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

Clark Morris wrote:

begin extract
The costs to an ISV for distributing an application written in COBOL
can be high because of having to pay for a runtime license for each
machine.
end extract/

The use of COBOL as an implementation language by ISVs has always
been, if not exiguous,  very low.  COBOL is a user's language.

Many ISVs take care to ensure that their products are usable from
COBOL, but this is a very different matter.

Moreover, the LE (Language Environment) is already available in all of
the z/OS shops I am familiar with.

Can Mr Morris be thinking of an ISV product implemented in COBOL for
use by non-COBOL shops?  If so, a z/OS shop that purchased such a
product would incur licensing fees iff it wished [and was allowed] to
recompile that product.  This whole scenario is, however, a wildly
improbable one.

I am talking about Cobol in Windows and Unix/Linux environments.  The
reasons for decline in those environments would be different from
those in the z environments where COBOL seems to be dead ended in the
VM and VSE environments.  I believe that Microfocus has implemented a
number of the 2002 Standard features in their COBOL but licensing
issues are still a problem because of the need to distribute runtimes.
COBOL-IT also seems to be another vendor.

Clark Morris

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-03 Thread R.S.

W dniu 2012-09-03 16:52, Clark Morris pisze:

On 3 Sep 2012 00:44:00 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

W dniu 2012-09-02 18:42, Clark Morris pisze:

[...] COBOL seems to be fading on UNIX and Windows platforms [...]

Oh really? vbg

My comment is based on postings in comp.lang.cobol. The costs to an
ISV for distributing an application written in COBOL can be high
because of having to pay for a runtime license for each machine.

Do you really think that COBOLs position is caused by runtime licenses?

Or maybe it's allowed to say But he isn't wearing anything at all!?
COBOL is completely unpopular on LUW platforms, it as popular as
dinosaurs in the zoo. And it's not matter of any license fee.

Maybe this is the reason: The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its
teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-03 Thread Kirk Wolf

Scott,

Hearsay, hearsay :-)

We have found that Java performance can be excellent.   The biggest problem
is that Java programmers commonly write poor performing applications that
are bogged down with huge, expensive libraries and frameworks.   The same
can be said for huge Java applications servers.   Java makes it easy to use
and resuse literally thousands of Java libraries, but it also makes it easy
to use lots of CPU resources.   But it doesn't have to be that way, and the
Java Languages and SDK/JVM are not to blame.   Programmers need to not only
know how to use a library, but when to use it, and what the cost trade-offs
are.

I also don't understand your comments about C, can you elaborate?   The
z/OS C documentation is quite good I think.   A good C programmer with
knowledge of z/OS facilities (especially LE) can succeed with the IBM
tools, which include debuggers, profilers, assembler listings, etc, etc.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://dovetail.com


On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:

 John,

 With what heard about the Java performance hit, it's relativity a slow
 performer.
 What I see of C it's ok but, the documentation, good examples are lacking.
 The data types especial strings with z/os bring different than UnixI
 know these languages are evolving, my comments are negative criticisms of
 IBM.

 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com

 On Sep 1, 2012, at 4:26 PM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  IIRC, both C and PL/I use the same back end code generator, while COBOL
  does its own thing. That may be why COBOL seems to stay behind them.
  On Sep 1, 2012 2:49 PM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Indeed. The lack of improvements for EC12 may simply reflect where the
  COBOL folks are in their release cycle -- maybe they missed the window,
 and
  it's coming later. Or not.
 
  On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
  Clark,
 
  I seriously doubt COBOL is on a deathbed considering how java performs
 on
  a z/os.
  Secondly, a serious amount of banking is on legacy machines in COBOL.
  Banks aren't going to convert if it costs more money
 
  Scott ford
  www.identityforge.com
 
  On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca
  wrote:
 
  On 28 Aug 2012 06:55:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
 
  With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is
  greate! .. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12
 tech
  guide redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance
 items
  well 
 
  I notice that the language most used on the z, COBOL has NO
  improvements related to the EC12.  There are improvements for PL/1 and
  C/C++.  This speaks louder than anything else as to whether IBM thinks
  COBOL is on its deathbed.
 
  Clark Morris
 
  Regards
  Meral
 
  1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12
 
  The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and
  capacity
  for large scale
  consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points
  of
  the zEC12 contribute
  to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the
  z196.
  /Architecture implementation enhancements:
 
  Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other
  exploiters
 
  Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online
  re-compilation
  capability for Java workloads
 
  Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools,
  Java heap size and
  other large structures
 
  Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance
 
  Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
  zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
 
  Six processor cores per chip
 
  Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design
 
  Improved pipeline balance
 
  Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput
 
  Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput
 
  New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache
  structures for instructions
  and L2 operands
 
  Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses
 
  Bigger Level 2 cache with shorter latency
 
  Third level on-chip shared cache is doubled
 
  Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled
 
  Hardware and software prefetcher handling improvements
 
  Increased execution/completion throughput
 
  Improve fetch and store conflict scheme
 
  Enhance branch prediction structure and sequential instruction
  fetching
 
  Millicode performance improvements
 
  Optimized floating-point performance
 
  Faster engine for fixed-point division
 
  New second level branch prediction array
 
  One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core
 
  Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions
 
  Higher clock frequency at 5.5 GHz
 
  IBM CMOS 13S 32nm SOI technology with IBM eDRAM technology.
  zEC12 design enhancements:
 
  Increased total number of PUs available on

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-03 Thread Scott Ford

Kirk,

I am somewhat a beginner in C and java, written a Assembler and COBOL. 
I am also talk about C in batch or as a STC. I had to do sine digging to 
understand C threading and being able to Attach and assembler subtasks. One I 
found it good. There also is a huge difference in writing C in Windoze or Linux 
or Unix and z/OS batch or STC. 

Being old school part of my problem is relearning, but I am getting there. I 
have worked for another software vendor , well known one, our manuals and 
examples were good. IBM I think needs to work at their examples. The 
SYS1.SAMPLIB examples are good. 

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

On Sep 3, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Kirk Wolf k...@dovetail.com wrote:

 Scott,
 
 Hearsay, hearsay :-)
 
 We have found that Java performance can be excellent.   The biggest problem
 is that Java programmers commonly write poor performing applications that
 are bogged down with huge, expensive libraries and frameworks.   The same
 can be said for huge Java applications servers.   Java makes it easy to use
 and resuse literally thousands of Java libraries, but it also makes it easy
 to use lots of CPU resources.   But it doesn't have to be that way, and the
 Java Languages and SDK/JVM are not to blame.   Programmers need to not only
 know how to use a library, but when to use it, and what the cost trade-offs
 are.
 
 I also don't understand your comments about C, can you elaborate?   The
 z/OS C documentation is quite good I think.   A good C programmer with
 knowledge of z/OS facilities (especially LE) can succeed with the IBM
 tools, which include debuggers, profilers, assembler listings, etc, etc.
 
 Kirk Wolf
 Dovetailed Technologies
 http://dovetail.com
 
 
 On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 John,
 
 With what heard about the Java performance hit, it's relativity a slow
 performer.
 What I see of C it's ok but, the documentation, good examples are lacking.
 The data types especial strings with z/os bring different than UnixI
 know these languages are evolving, my comments are negative criticisms of
 IBM.
 
 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com
 
 On Sep 1, 2012, at 4:26 PM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 IIRC, both C and PL/I use the same back end code generator, while COBOL
 does its own thing. That may be why COBOL seems to stay behind them.
 On Sep 1, 2012 2:49 PM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Indeed. The lack of improvements for EC12 may simply reflect where the
 COBOL folks are in their release cycle -- maybe they missed the window,
 and
 it's coming later. Or not.
 
 On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
 Clark,
 
 I seriously doubt COBOL is on a deathbed considering how java performs
 on
 a z/os.
 Secondly, a serious amount of banking is on legacy machines in COBOL.
 Banks aren't going to convert if it costs more money
 
 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com
 
 On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca
 wrote:
 
 On 28 Aug 2012 06:55:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
 
 With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is
 greate! .. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12
 tech
 guide redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance
 items
 well 
 
 I notice that the language most used on the z, COBOL has NO
 improvements related to the EC12.  There are improvements for PL/1 and
 C/C++.  This speaks louder than anything else as to whether IBM thinks
 COBOL is on its deathbed.
 
 Clark Morris
 
 Regards
 Meral
 
 1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12
 
 The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and
 capacity
 for large scale
 consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points
 of
 the zEC12 contribute
 to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the
 z196.
 /Architecture implementation enhancements:
 
 Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other
 exploiters
 
 Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online
 re-compilation
 capability for Java workloads
 
 Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools,
 Java heap size and
 other large structures
 
 Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance
 
 Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
 zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
 
 Six processor cores per chip
 
 Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design
 
 Improved pipeline balance
 
 Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput
 
 Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput
 
 New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache
 structures for instructions
 and L2 operands
 
 Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses
 
 Bigger Level 2 cache with shorter latency
 
 Third level on-chip shared cache is doubled
 
 Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled
 
 Hardware

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-03 Thread Scott Ford

Sorry I hate iPad autocorrection

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

On Sep 3, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Kirk,
 
 I am somewhat a beginner in C and java, written a Assembler and COBOL. 
 I am also talk about C in batch or as a STC. I had to do sine digging to 
 understand C threading and being able to Attach and assembler subtasks. One I 
 found it good. There also is a huge difference in writing C in Windoze or 
 Linux or Unix and z/OS batch or STC. 
 
 Being old school part of my problem is relearning, but I am getting there. I 
 have worked for another software vendor , well known one, our manuals and 
 examples were good. IBM I think needs to work at their examples. The 
 SYS1.SAMPLIB examples are good. 
 
 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com
 
 On Sep 3, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Kirk Wolf k...@dovetail.com wrote:
 
 Scott,
 
 Hearsay, hearsay :-)
 
 We have found that Java performance can be excellent.   The biggest problem
 is that Java programmers commonly write poor performing applications that
 are bogged down with huge, expensive libraries and frameworks.   The same
 can be said for huge Java applications servers.   Java makes it easy to use
 and resuse literally thousands of Java libraries, but it also makes it easy
 to use lots of CPU resources.   But it doesn't have to be that way, and the
 Java Languages and SDK/JVM are not to blame.   Programmers need to not only
 know how to use a library, but when to use it, and what the cost trade-offs
 are.
 
 I also don't understand your comments about C, can you elaborate?   The
 z/OS C documentation is quite good I think.   A good C programmer with
 knowledge of z/OS facilities (especially LE) can succeed with the IBM
 tools, which include debuggers, profilers, assembler listings, etc, etc.
 
 Kirk Wolf
 Dovetailed Technologies
 http://dovetail.com
 
 
 On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 John,
 
 With what heard about the Java performance hit, it's relativity a slow
 performer.
 What I see of C it's ok but, the documentation, good examples are lacking.
 The data types especial strings with z/os bring different than UnixI
 know these languages are evolving, my comments are negative criticisms of
 IBM.
 
 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com
 
 On Sep 1, 2012, at 4:26 PM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 IIRC, both C and PL/I use the same back end code generator, while COBOL
 does its own thing. That may be why COBOL seems to stay behind them.
 On Sep 1, 2012 2:49 PM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Indeed. The lack of improvements for EC12 may simply reflect where the
 COBOL folks are in their release cycle -- maybe they missed the window,
 and
 it's coming later. Or not.
 
 On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
 Clark,
 
 I seriously doubt COBOL is on a deathbed considering how java performs
 on
 a z/os.
 Secondly, a serious amount of banking is on legacy machines in COBOL.
 Banks aren't going to convert if it costs more money
 
 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com
 
 On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca
 wrote:
 
 On 28 Aug 2012 06:55:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
 
 With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is
 greate! .. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12
 tech
 guide redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance
 items
 well 
 
 I notice that the language most used on the z, COBOL has NO
 improvements related to the EC12.  There are improvements for PL/1 and
 C/C++.  This speaks louder than anything else as to whether IBM thinks
 COBOL is on its deathbed.
 
 Clark Morris
 
 Regards
 Meral
 
 1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12
 
 The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and
 capacity
 for large scale
 consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points
 of
 the zEC12 contribute
 to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the
 z196.
 /Architecture implementation enhancements:
 
 Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other
 exploiters
 
 Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online
 re-compilation
 capability for Java workloads
 
 Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools,
 Java heap size and
 other large structures
 
 Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance
 
 Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
 zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
 
 Six processor cores per chip
 
 Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design
 
 Improved pipeline balance
 
 Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput
 
 Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput
 
 New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache
 structures for instructions
 and L2 operands
 
 Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-03 Thread Scott Ford

Charles, 

Nope, C expects '0/' z/os delimited strings with x'40 unless you initialize a 
field to low values

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

On Sep 3, 2012, at 10:59 PM, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote:

 I think std::string is pretty much identical across gcc, MS VC++, and XLC++.
 
 Charles
 
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
 Behalf Of Kirk Wolf
 Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 1:58 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
 
 Scott,
 
 Hearsay, hearsay :-)
 
 We have found that Java performance can be excellent.   The biggest problem
 is that Java programmers commonly write poor performing applications that
 are bogged down with huge, expensive libraries and frameworks.   The same
 can be said for huge Java applications servers.   Java makes it easy to use
 and resuse literally thousands of Java libraries, but it also makes it easy
 to use lots of CPU resources.   But it doesn't have to be that way, and the
 Java Languages and SDK/JVM are not to blame.   Programmers need to not only
 know how to use a library, but when to use it, and what the cost trade-offs
 are.
 
 I also don't understand your comments about C, can you elaborate?   The
 z/OS C documentation is quite good I think.   A good C programmer with
 knowledge of z/OS facilities (especially LE) can succeed with the IBM tools,
 which include debuggers, profilers, assembler listings, etc, etc.
 
 Kirk Wolf
 Dovetailed Technologies
 http://dovetail.com
 
 
 On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 John,
 
 With what heard about the Java performance hit, it's relativity a slow 
 performer.
 What I see of C it's ok but, the documentation, good examples are lacking.
 The data types especial strings with z/os bring different than 
 UnixI know these languages are evolving, my comments are negative 
 criticisms of IBM.
 
 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-02 Thread Clark Morris

On 1 Sep 2012 10:58:53 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

Clark,

I seriously doubt COBOL is on a deathbed considering how java performs on a 
z/os.
Secondly, a serious amount of banking is on legacy machines in COBOL. 
Banks aren't going to convert if it costs more money

COBOL seems to be fading on UNIX and Windows platforms (far cheaper to
develop in other languages due to run-time licensing requirements,
especially for ISVs).  Packages (SAP anyone) are reducing the number
of COBO? programs needed and many of the systems currently in use are
long in tooth and brittle.  The COBOL development environment has
lagged behind.  IBM hasn't implemented ANY of the major improvements
in the 2002 standard (EXIT PERFORM, true binary, USAGE BIT, floating
point usages leaving COMP-1 and COMP-2 for hex floating point, etc.).
IBM hasn't implemented the post 2002 standard usage and language for
decimal floating point and the new rounding options.  IBM hasn't
implemented a 64 bit mode for COBOL even though both C/C++ and PL/1
have it.  Java may perform poorly but a zaap running Java may be
cheaper than the same logic running on decently written COBOL on a
regular processor (my opinion of the ziips and zaaps is derisive).  

Clark Morris

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:

 On 28 Aug 2012 06:55:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
 
 With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is 
 greate! .. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12 tech 
 guide redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance items 
 well 
 
 I notice that the language most used on the z, COBOL has NO
 improvements related to the EC12.  There are improvements for PL/1 and
 C/C++.  This speaks louder than anything else as to whether IBM thinks
 COBOL is on its deathbed.
 
 Clark Morris
 
 Regards
 Meral
 
 1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12
 
 The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and capacity for 
 large scale
 consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points of the 
 zEC12 contribute
 to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the z196.
 /Architecture implementation enhancements:
 
 Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other
 exploiters
 
 Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online
 re-compilation
 capability for Java workloads
 
 Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools,
 Java heap size and
 other large structures
 
 Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance
 
 Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
 zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
 
 Six processor cores per chip
 
 Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design
 
 Improved pipeline balance
 
 Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput
 
 Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput
 
 New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache
 structures for instructions
 and L2 operands
 
 Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses
 
 Bigger Level 2 cache with shorter latency
 
 Third level on-chip shared cache is doubled
 
 Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled
 
 Hardware and software prefetcher handling improvements
 
 Increased execution/completion throughput
 
 Improve fetch and store conflict scheme
 
 Enhance branch prediction structure and sequential instruction
 fetching
 
 Millicode performance improvements
 
 Optimized floating-point performance
 
 Faster engine for fixed-point division
 
 New second level branch prediction array
 
 One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core
 
 Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions
 
 Higher clock frequency at 5.5 GHz
 
 IBM CMOS 13S 32nm SOI technology with IBM eDRAM technology.
 zEC12 design enhancements:
 
 Increased total number of PUs available on the system, from 96 to
 120, and number of
 characterizable cores, from 80 to 101
 
 Hardware System Area increased from 16 GB to 32 GB
 
 Increased default number of SAP processors per book
 
 New CFCC code available for improved performance
  Elapsed time improvements when dynamically altering the size of a cache 
 structure
  DB2 conditional write to a group buffer pool (GBP)
  Performance improvements for coupling facility cache structures to avoid 
 flooding the
 coupling facility cache with changed data and avoid excessive delays and 
 backlogs for
 cast-out processing
  Performance throughput enhancements for parallel cache castout processing 
 by
 extending the number of RCC cursors beyond 512
  CF Storage class and castout class contention avoidance by breaking up 
 individual
 storage class and castout class queues to reduce storage class and castout 
 class latch
 contention.
 New features available on the zEC12:
 
 Crypto Express4S performance enhancements
 
 Flash Express PCIe

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-01 Thread Scott Ford

Clark,

I seriously doubt COBOL is on a deathbed considering how java performs on a 
z/os.
Secondly, a serious amount of banking is on legacy machines in COBOL. 
Banks aren't going to convert if it costs more money

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca wrote:

 On 28 Aug 2012 06:55:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
 
 With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is greate! 
 .. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12 tech guide 
 redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance items well 
 
 I notice that the language most used on the z, COBOL has NO
 improvements related to the EC12.  There are improvements for PL/1 and
 C/C++.  This speaks louder than anything else as to whether IBM thinks
 COBOL is on its deathbed.
 
 Clark Morris
 
 Regards
 Meral
 
 1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12
 
 The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and capacity for 
 large scale
 consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points of the 
 zEC12 contribute
 to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the z196.
 /Architecture implementation enhancements:
 
 Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other
 exploiters
 
 Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online
 re-compilation
 capability for Java workloads
 
 Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools,
 Java heap size and
 other large structures
 
 Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance
 
 Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
 zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
 
 Six processor cores per chip
 
 Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design
 
 Improved pipeline balance
 
 Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput
 
 Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput
 
 New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache
 structures for instructions
 and L2 operands
 
 Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses
 
 Bigger Level 2 cache with shorter latency
 
 Third level on-chip shared cache is doubled
 
 Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled
 
 Hardware and software prefetcher handling improvements
 
 Increased execution/completion throughput
 
 Improve fetch and store conflict scheme
 
 Enhance branch prediction structure and sequential instruction
 fetching
 
 Millicode performance improvements
 
 Optimized floating-point performance
 
 Faster engine for fixed-point division
 
 New second level branch prediction array
 
 One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core
 
 Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions
 
 Higher clock frequency at 5.5 GHz
 
 IBM CMOS 13S 32nm SOI technology with IBM eDRAM technology.
 zEC12 design enhancements:
 
 Increased total number of PUs available on the system, from 96 to
 120, and number of
 characterizable cores, from 80 to 101
 
 Hardware System Area increased from 16 GB to 32 GB
 
 Increased default number of SAP processors per book
 
 New CFCC code available for improved performance
 – Elapsed time improvements when dynamically altering the size of a cache 
 structure
 – DB2 conditional write to a group buffer pool (GBP)
 – Performance improvements for coupling facility cache structures to avoid 
 flooding the
 coupling facility cache with changed data and avoid excessive delays and 
 backlogs for
 cast-out processing
 – Performance throughput enhancements for parallel cache castout processing 
 by
 extending the number of RCC cursors beyond 512
 – CF Storage class and castout class contention avoidance by breaking up 
 individual
 storage class and castout class queues to reduce storage class and castout 
 class latch
 contention.
 New features available on the zEC12:
 
 Crypto Express4S performance enhancements
 
 Flash Express PCIe cards to handle paging workload spikes and improve
 performance
 
 
 
 
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 you are not the addressee, you are responsible to keep the message 
 confidential. The sender has no responsibility for the accuracy or 
 correctness of the information in the message and its attachments. Our 
 company shall have no liability for any changes or late receiving, loss of 
 integrity and confidentiality, viruses and any damages caused in anyway to 
 your computer system.  
 
 Bu mesaj ve ekleri, mesajda gonderildigi belirtilen kisi/kisilere ozeldir ve 
 gizlidir. Bu mesajin muhatabi olmamaniza ragmen tarafiniza ulasmis olmasi 
 halinde mesaj iceriginin gizliligi ve bu gizlilik yukumlulugune uyulmasi 
 zorunlulugu tarafiniz icin de soz konusudur. Mesaj ve eklerinde yer alan 
 bilgilerin dogrulugu ve guncelligi konusunda gonderenin ya da sirketimizin 
 herhangi bir sorumlulugu

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-01 Thread zMan

Indeed. The lack of improvements for EC12 may simply reflect where the
COBOL folks are in their release cycle -- maybe they missed the window, and
it's coming later. Or not.

On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Clark,

 I seriously doubt COBOL is on a deathbed considering how java performs on
 a z/os.
 Secondly, a serious amount of banking is on legacy machines in COBOL.
 Banks aren't going to convert if it costs more money

 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com

 On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca
 wrote:

  On 28 Aug 2012 06:55:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
 
  With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is
 greate! .. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12 tech
 guide redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance items
 well 
 
  I notice that the language most used on the z, COBOL has NO
  improvements related to the EC12.  There are improvements for PL/1 and
  C/C++.  This speaks louder than anything else as to whether IBM thinks
  COBOL is on its deathbed.
 
  Clark Morris
 
  Regards
  Meral
 
  1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12
 
  The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and capacity
 for large scale
  consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points of
 the zEC12 contribute
  to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the
 z196.
  /Architecture implementation enhancements:
 
  Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other
  exploiters
 
  Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online
  re-compilation
  capability for Java workloads
 
  Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools,
  Java heap size and
  other large structures
 
  Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance
 
  Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
  zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
 
  Six processor cores per chip
 
  Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design
 
  Improved pipeline balance
 
  Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput
 
  Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput
 
  New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache
  structures for instructions
  and L2 operands
 
  Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses
 
  Bigger Level 2 cache with shorter latency
 
  Third level on-chip shared cache is doubled
 
  Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled
 
  Hardware and software prefetcher handling improvements
 
  Increased execution/completion throughput
 
  Improve fetch and store conflict scheme
 
  Enhance branch prediction structure and sequential instruction
  fetching
 
  Millicode performance improvements
 
  Optimized floating-point performance
 
  Faster engine for fixed-point division
 
  New second level branch prediction array
 
  One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core
 
  Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions
 
  Higher clock frequency at 5.5 GHz
 
  IBM CMOS 13S 32nm SOI technology with IBM eDRAM technology.
  zEC12 design enhancements:
 
  Increased total number of PUs available on the system, from 96 to
  120, and number of
  characterizable cores, from 80 to 101
 
  Hardware System Area increased from 16 GB to 32 GB
 
  Increased default number of SAP processors per book
 
  New CFCC code available for improved performance
  – Elapsed time improvements when dynamically altering the size of a
 cache structure
  – DB2 conditional write to a group buffer pool (GBP)
  – Performance improvements for coupling facility cache structures to
 avoid flooding the
  coupling facility cache with changed data and avoid excessive delays
 and backlogs for
  cast-out processing
  – Performance throughput enhancements for parallel cache castout
 processing by
  extending the number of RCC cursors beyond 512
  – CF Storage class and castout class contention avoidance by breaking
 up individual
  storage class and castout class queues to reduce storage class and
 castout class latch
  contention.
  New features available on the zEC12:
 
  Crypto Express4S performance enhancements
 
  Flash Express PCIe cards to handle paging workload spikes and improve
  performance
 
 
 
 
  This message and attachments are confidential and intended solely for
 the individual(s) stated in this message. If you received this message
 although you are not the addressee, you are responsible to keep the message
 confidential. The sender has no responsibility for the accuracy or
 correctness of the information in the message and its attachments. Our
 company shall have no liability for any changes or late receiving, loss of
 integrity and confidentiality, viruses and any damages caused in anyway to
 your computer system.
 
  Bu mesaj ve ekleri, mesajda gonderildigi belirtilen kisi/kisilere
 ozeldir ve gizlidir. Bu mesajin muhatabi

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-01 Thread John McKown

IIRC, both C and PL/I use the same back end code generator, while COBOL
does its own thing. That may be why COBOL seems to stay behind them.
On Sep 1, 2012 2:49 PM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Indeed. The lack of improvements for EC12 may simply reflect where the
 COBOL folks are in their release cycle -- maybe they missed the window, and
 it's coming later. Or not.

 On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:

  Clark,
 
  I seriously doubt COBOL is on a deathbed considering how java performs on
  a z/os.
  Secondly, a serious amount of banking is on legacy machines in COBOL.
  Banks aren't going to convert if it costs more money
 
  Scott ford
  www.identityforge.com
 
  On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca
  wrote:
 
   On 28 Aug 2012 06:55:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
  
   With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is
  greate! .. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12 tech
  guide redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance items
  well 
  
   I notice that the language most used on the z, COBOL has NO
   improvements related to the EC12.  There are improvements for PL/1 and
   C/C++.  This speaks louder than anything else as to whether IBM thinks
   COBOL is on its deathbed.
  
   Clark Morris
  
   Regards
   Meral
  
   1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12
  
   The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and
 capacity
  for large scale
   consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points
 of
  the zEC12 contribute
   to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the
  z196.
   /Architecture implementation enhancements:
  
   Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other
   exploiters
  
   Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online
   re-compilation
   capability for Java workloads
  
   Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools,
   Java heap size and
   other large structures
  
   Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance
  
   Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
   zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
  
   Six processor cores per chip
  
   Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design
  
   Improved pipeline balance
  
   Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput
  
   Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput
  
   New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache
   structures for instructions
   and L2 operands
  
   Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses
  
   Bigger Level 2 cache with shorter latency
  
   Third level on-chip shared cache is doubled
  
   Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled
  
   Hardware and software prefetcher handling improvements
  
   Increased execution/completion throughput
  
   Improve fetch and store conflict scheme
  
   Enhance branch prediction structure and sequential instruction
   fetching
  
   Millicode performance improvements
  
   Optimized floating-point performance
  
   Faster engine for fixed-point division
  
   New second level branch prediction array
  
   One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core
  
   Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions
  
   Higher clock frequency at 5.5 GHz
  
   IBM CMOS 13S 32nm SOI technology with IBM eDRAM technology.
   zEC12 design enhancements:
  
   Increased total number of PUs available on the system, from 96 to
   120, and number of
   characterizable cores, from 80 to 101
  
   Hardware System Area increased from 16 GB to 32 GB
  
   Increased default number of SAP processors per book
  
   New CFCC code available for improved performance
   – Elapsed time improvements when dynamically altering the size of a
  cache structure
   – DB2 conditional write to a group buffer pool (GBP)
   – Performance improvements for coupling facility cache structures to
  avoid flooding the
   coupling facility cache with changed data and avoid excessive delays
  and backlogs for
   cast-out processing
   – Performance throughput enhancements for parallel cache castout
  processing by
   extending the number of RCC cursors beyond 512
   – CF Storage class and castout class contention avoidance by breaking
  up individual
   storage class and castout class queues to reduce storage class and
  castout class latch
   contention.
   New features available on the zEC12:
  
   Crypto Express4S performance enhancements
  
   Flash Express PCIe cards to handle paging workload spikes and improve
   performance
  
  
  
  
   This message and attachments are confidential and intended solely for
  the individual(s) stated in this message. If you received this message
  although you are not the addressee, you are responsible to keep the
 message
  confidential. The sender has no responsibility for the accuracy or

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-01 Thread Scott Ford

John,

With what heard about the Java performance hit, it's relativity a slow 
performer.
What I see of C it's ok but, the documentation, good examples are lacking.
The data types especial strings with z/os bring different than UnixI know 
these languages are evolving, my comments are negative criticisms of IBM.

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

On Sep 1, 2012, at 4:26 PM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com wrote:

 IIRC, both C and PL/I use the same back end code generator, while COBOL
 does its own thing. That may be why COBOL seems to stay behind them.
 On Sep 1, 2012 2:49 PM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Indeed. The lack of improvements for EC12 may simply reflect where the
 COBOL folks are in their release cycle -- maybe they missed the window, and
 it's coming later. Or not.
 
 On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 Clark,
 
 I seriously doubt COBOL is on a deathbed considering how java performs on
 a z/os.
 Secondly, a serious amount of banking is on legacy machines in COBOL.
 Banks aren't going to convert if it costs more money
 
 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com
 
 On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca
 wrote:
 
 On 28 Aug 2012 06:55:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
 
 With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is
 greate! .. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12 tech
 guide redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance items
 well 
 
 I notice that the language most used on the z, COBOL has NO
 improvements related to the EC12.  There are improvements for PL/1 and
 C/C++.  This speaks louder than anything else as to whether IBM thinks
 COBOL is on its deathbed.
 
 Clark Morris
 
 Regards
 Meral
 
 1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12
 
 The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and
 capacity
 for large scale
 consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points
 of
 the zEC12 contribute
 to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the
 z196.
 /Architecture implementation enhancements:
 
 Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other
 exploiters
 
 Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online
 re-compilation
 capability for Java workloads
 
 Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools,
 Java heap size and
 other large structures
 
 Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance
 
 Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
 zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
 
 Six processor cores per chip
 
 Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design
 
 Improved pipeline balance
 
 Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput
 
 Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput
 
 New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache
 structures for instructions
 and L2 operands
 
 Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses
 
 Bigger Level 2 cache with shorter latency
 
 Third level on-chip shared cache is doubled
 
 Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled
 
 Hardware and software prefetcher handling improvements
 
 Increased execution/completion throughput
 
 Improve fetch and store conflict scheme
 
 Enhance branch prediction structure and sequential instruction
 fetching
 
 Millicode performance improvements
 
 Optimized floating-point performance
 
 Faster engine for fixed-point division
 
 New second level branch prediction array
 
 One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core
 
 Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions
 
 Higher clock frequency at 5.5 GHz
 
 IBM CMOS 13S 32nm SOI technology with IBM eDRAM technology.
 zEC12 design enhancements:
 
 Increased total number of PUs available on the system, from 96 to
 120, and number of
 characterizable cores, from 80 to 101
 
 Hardware System Area increased from 16 GB to 32 GB
 
 Increased default number of SAP processors per book
 
 New CFCC code available for improved performance
 – Elapsed time improvements when dynamically altering the size of a
 cache structure
 – DB2 conditional write to a group buffer pool (GBP)
 – Performance improvements for coupling facility cache structures to
 avoid flooding the
 coupling facility cache with changed data and avoid excessive delays
 and backlogs for
 cast-out processing
 – Performance throughput enhancements for parallel cache castout
 processing by
 extending the number of RCC cursors beyond 512
 – CF Storage class and castout class contention avoidance by breaking
 up individual
 storage class and castout class queues to reduce storage class and
 castout class latch
 contention.
 New features available on the zEC12:
 
 Crypto Express4S performance enhancements
 
 Flash Express PCIe cards to handle paging workload spikes and improve
 performance
 
 
 
 
 This message and attachments are confidential and intended solely for

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-09-01 Thread Scott Ford

Sorry, what I was trying say was that Java is a slow performer and C of Z/os 
outside Unix System Services is awkward based on examples I have seen and used. 
Where COBOL and Assembler don't suffer from these inadequacies. The are more 
seasoned languages

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

On Sep 1, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:

 John,
 
 With what heard about the Java performance hit, it's relativity a slow 
 performer.
 What I see of C it's ok but, the documentation, good examples are lacking.
 The data types especial strings with z/os bring different than UnixI know 
 these languages are evolving, my comments are negative criticisms of IBM.
 
 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com
 
 On Sep 1, 2012, at 4:26 PM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 IIRC, both C and PL/I use the same back end code generator, while COBOL
 does its own thing. That may be why COBOL seems to stay behind them.
 On Sep 1, 2012 2:49 PM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Indeed. The lack of improvements for EC12 may simply reflect where the
 COBOL folks are in their release cycle -- maybe they missed the window, and
 it's coming later. Or not.
 
 On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 Clark,
 
 I seriously doubt COBOL is on a deathbed considering how java performs on
 a z/os.
 Secondly, a serious amount of banking is on legacy machines in COBOL.
 Banks aren't going to convert if it costs more money
 
 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com
 
 On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Clark Morris cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca
 wrote:
 
 On 28 Aug 2012 06:55:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
 
 With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is
 greate! .. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12 tech
 guide redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance items
 well 
 
 I notice that the language most used on the z, COBOL has NO
 improvements related to the EC12.  There are improvements for PL/1 and
 C/C++.  This speaks louder than anything else as to whether IBM thinks
 COBOL is on its deathbed.
 
 Clark Morris
 
 Regards
 Meral
 
 1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12
 
 The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and
 capacity
 for large scale
 consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points
 of
 the zEC12 contribute
 to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the
 z196.
 /Architecture implementation enhancements:
 
 Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other
 exploiters
 
 Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online
 re-compilation
 capability for Java workloads
 
 Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools,
 Java heap size and
 other large structures
 
 Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance
 
 Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
 zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
 
 Six processor cores per chip
 
 Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design
 
 Improved pipeline balance
 
 Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput
 
 Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput
 
 New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache
 structures for instructions
 and L2 operands
 
 Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses
 
 Bigger Level 2 cache with shorter latency
 
 Third level on-chip shared cache is doubled
 
 Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled
 
 Hardware and software prefetcher handling improvements
 
 Increased execution/completion throughput
 
 Improve fetch and store conflict scheme
 
 Enhance branch prediction structure and sequential instruction
 fetching
 
 Millicode performance improvements
 
 Optimized floating-point performance
 
 Faster engine for fixed-point division
 
 New second level branch prediction array
 
 One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core
 
 Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions
 
 Higher clock frequency at 5.5 GHz
 
 IBM CMOS 13S 32nm SOI technology with IBM eDRAM technology.
 zEC12 design enhancements:
 
 Increased total number of PUs available on the system, from 96 to
 120, and number of
 characterizable cores, from 80 to 101
 
 Hardware System Area increased from 16 GB to 32 GB
 
 Increased default number of SAP processors per book
 
 New CFCC code available for improved performance
 – Elapsed time improvements when dynamically altering the size of a
 cache structure
 – DB2 conditional write to a group buffer pool (GBP)
 – Performance improvements for coupling facility cache structures to
 avoid flooding the
 coupling facility cache with changed data and avoid excessive delays
 and backlogs for
 cast-out processing
 – Performance throughput enhancements for parallel cache castout
 processing by
 extending the number of RCC cursors beyond 512
 – CF Storage class and castout class contention avoidance by

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-31 Thread Jim Mulder

 I still like the 
 concept of having IPL and NIP somehow resident on the SSD for very 
 fast loading. Perhaps in z/OS 2.3 grin.

  I would recommend against spending any of our development 
resources on that.  The actual loading of code contributes 
only a small amount of time to system initialization up through
Master Scheduler Initialization.

Here is an example of IPCS's  IPLDATA STATUS 
for a z/OS 1.13 IPL  on an EC12 processor:

*** IPL Statistics *** 
 
IEAIPL10  00:00:00.000  ISNIRIM - Read SCPINFO 
IEAIPL20  00:00:00.000  Test Block storage to 2G 
IEAIPL11  00:00:00.019  Fast FIND initialization 
IEAIPL31  00:00:00.000  LOAD service initialization 
IEAIPL30  00:00:00.000  Load IPLWTO. Allocate IPL Msg Q 
IEAIPL46  00:00:00.197  Read SCHIBs into IPL workspace 
IEAIPL49  00:00:00.000  Process Load and Default parameters 
IEAIPL50  00:00:00.357  IPL parmlib - process LOADxx and NUCLSTxx 
IEAIPL51  00:00:00.000  System architecture 
IEAIPL43  00:00:00.004  Find and Open IODF data set 
IEAIPL60  00:00:00.000  Read NCRs from IODF 
IEAIPL70  00:00:00.054  UIM environment - load CBD and IOS services 
IEAIPL71  00:00:00.048  Build DFT for each device 
IEAIPL08  00:00:00.000  Read EDT information from IODF 
IEAIPL40  00:00:00.028  Read MLTs from nucleus 
IEAIPL42  00:00:00.002  Read NMLs from nucleus (IEANynnn modules) 
IEAIPL41  00:00:00.361  Read PDS directory entries and CESD records 
IEAIPL05  00:00:00.000  Build and sort NUCMAP 
IEAIPL02  00:00:01.403  Load nucleus modules 
IEAIPL04  00:00:00.003  Allocate PFT and SQA/ESQA 
IEAIPL14  00:00:00.000  Build LSQA/ELSQA for Master 
IEAIPL09  00:00:00.015  IAXMI - PFT, master RAB,  etc. 
IEAIPL07  00:00:00.002  Update AMODE for nucleus resident SVCs 
IEAIPL03  00:00:00.009  Build UCBs, ULUT, etc. 
IEAIPL18  00:00:00.006  Copy and relocate EDT to ESQA 
IEAIPL99  00:00:00.109  Page frame table and cleanup 
 
Total IPL Time:  00:00:02.628 

*** NIP Statistics *** 
 
IEAVNIP0  00:00:00.015  NIP Base 
IEAVNIPM  00:00:00.051  Invoke NIP RIMs 
IEAVNPE6  00:00:00.065  Service Processor Interface 
IEAVNPFF  00:00:00.022  Loadwait/Restart 
IEAVNPA6  00:00:00.007  RTM - RTCT and recording buffer 
IEAVNPC6  00:00:00.008  WTO 
IEAVNPC3  00:00:00.006  Issue messages from IPL message queue 
IEAVNP24  00:00:00.017  SMS Open/Mount 
IEAVNP06  00:00:00.007  Machine Check 
IEAVNP27  00:00:00.007  Reconfiguration 
IEAVNPA2  00:00:05.958  IOS - Non-DASD UCBs 
IEAVNPCA  00:00:00.007  NIP Console 
IEAVNPB2  00:00:41.393  IOS - DASD UCBs 
IEAVNP11  00:00:00.027  Locate and Open master catalog 
IEAVNPC7  00:00:00.007  Open SYS1.SVCLIB 
IEAVNPOP  00:00:00.038  Open PARMLIB 
IEAVNPIL  00:00:00.005  Process IEALSTxx 
IEAVNPC4  00:00:00.023  Prompt for System Parameters 
IEAVNP03  00:00:00.005  Merge and analyze system parameters 
IEAVNPCF  00:00:00.003  Process system name and system variables 
IEAVNP76  00:00:00.015  Open LOGREC 
IEAVNPE8  00:00:00.003  RSM - Process REAL= 
IEAVNP23  00:00:00.036  Build GRS blocks in SQA 
IEAVNP04  00:00:00.037  ASM - Open page and swap data sets 
IEAVNPA8  00:00:00.007  VSM - Expand SQA 
IEAVNP14  00:00:00.076  ASM part 2 - Build SQA control blocks 
IEAVNPGD  00:00:00.001  Move console data to ESQA 
IEAVNP25  00:00:00.005  Process SVC= 
IEAVNP05  00:00:08.430  LPA, APF 
IEAVNP44  00:00:00.001  ASA Reuse stuff 
IEAVNPB1  00:00:00.000  Process CSCBLOC= 
IEAVNPE2  00:00:00.003  RACF SAF 
IEAVNPB8  00:00:00.010  Create CSA 
IEAVNP47  00:00:00.002  ENF 
IEAVNPD6  00:00:00.001  RTM - SDUMP, ABDUMP, ESTAE 
IEAVNP09  00:00:00.001  Build ASVT 
IEAVNPD8  00:00:01.200  RSM - Frame queues, VRREGN= and RSU= 
IEAVNP10  00:00:00.006  SRM - OPT=, IPS=, etc. 
IEAVNPD1  00:00:00.007  ABDUMP 
IEAVNPD2  00:00:00.012  SDUMP 
IEAVNPCX  00:00:00.001  Context services, registration services 
IEAVNPX1  00:00:00.001  NIP cleanup 
IEAVNPF5  00:00:00.025  PCAUTH 
IEAVNPF8  00:00:00.013  RASP 
IEAVNP1F  00:00:00.062  SRM - I/O measurement blocks 
IEAVNPC2  00:00:00.005  IOS - Move CDT to SQA 
IEAVNP51  00:00:00.025  TRACE 
IEAVNP20  00:00:00.003  Process CLOCK= 
IEAVNP21  00:00:00.122  TOD clock 
IEAVNPAR  00:00:00.118  Auto-Reply 
IEAVNP57  00:00:00.004  SDUMP 
IEAVNPF9  00:00:04.623  XCF 
IEAVNP33  00:00:00.764  GRS 
IEAVNPED  00:00:00.006  PROD 
IEAVNP26  00:00:00.425  SMS 
IEAVNPE5  00:00:03.007  LNKLST 
IEAVNPD5  00:00:00.120  Load pageable device support modules 
IEAVNP88  00:00:00.033  Allocation move EDT II
IEAVNPA1  00:00:00.649  CONSOLE 
IEAVNPDC  00:00:00.202  WLM 
IEAVNP16  00:00:00.044  EXCP appendages 
IEAVNP13  00:00:00.014  Prepare NIP/MSI interface 
IEAVNP17  00:00:00.001  GTF Monitor Call interface 
IEAVNPG8  00:00:00.004  VSM defined monitor call enablement
IEAVNP18  00:00:00.020  PARMLIB Scan Routine interface 
IEAVNPF2  00:00:00.030  Process IOS= 
IEAVNP15  00:00:00.071  Process VATLST 
IEAVNPRR  00:00:00.001  RRS 
IEAVNPOE  00:00:00.167  USS 
IEAVNPSC  00:00:00.004  SDC 
IEAVNPLE  00:00:00.033  System LE RIM 
IEAVNPUN  00:00:00.003  Unicode 
IEAVNPXL

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-31 Thread Shane Ginnane

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:29:12 -0400, Jim Mulder wrote:

 I still like the
 concept of having IPL and NIP somehow resident on the SSD for very
 fast loading. Perhaps in z/OS 2.3 grin.

  I would recommend against spending any of our development
resources on that.  The actual loading of code contributes
only a small amount of time to system initialization up through
Master Scheduler Initialization.

Say what ... why the hell is anybody worried about z IPL times ?.
IMHO it's a d'oh moment even in the toy-store - but z/OS ???.

Go make a coffee for the once-a-year event.

Maybe I missed something when I dropped off the thread.

Shane ...

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-31 Thread McKown, John

Well, we are very out of date, at least conceptually (and hardware wise). My 
manager wants us to IPL at least once a month just so we remember how to; and 
to valid that PARMLIB is in sync with any dynamic changes (APF and LNKLST 
mainly). The shutdown is about 99% automated (sometimes a glitch occurs and 
I've never figured out why, I can't get the sandbox to fail at all). The 
startup is 100% automated. The only time we have a problem is when we change a 
PARMLIB member (APF or LNKLST usually) and the startup fails somewhere along 
the line (like when CA-7 abended due to a bad PTF causing an S0C4 in production 
even though we had no problems on our sandbox). 

The IPL stuff was just trying to think about other uses for the Flash. But Pete 
Relston proved that it wouldn't help at all, even if we IPL'd weekly. The DB2 
and other uses are much more reasonable. IIRC, Hiperspaces used to prefer 
residing in Estore. I wonder if IBM will revive that with Flash to allow easy 
access for customer written code. Or perhaps they plan to make it an NDA 
interface to vendors to increase revenue. shrug. 

-- 
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 • N. Richland Hills • TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone •
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com • www.HealthMarkets.com

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snip
 
 Say what ... why the hell is anybody worried about z IPL times ?.
 IMHO it's a d'oh moment even in the toy-store - but z/OS ???.
 
 Go make a coffee for the once-a-year event.
 
 Maybe I missed something when I dropped off the thread.
 
 Shane ...


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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-31 Thread Bob Shannon

 Or perhaps they plan to make it an NDA interface to vendors to increase  
 revenue

Although IBM does charge vendors for some things, there are others such as the 
zIIP API which are available to vendors at no charge once the proper forms are 
signed.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-31 Thread Thomas Kern

There is something reassuring in the fact that these kinds of performance 
numbers are
available and looked at.

/Tom Kern

On 8/31/2012 02:29, Jim Mulder wrote:
 I still like the 
 concept of having IPL and NIP somehow resident on the SSD for very 
 fast loading. Perhaps in z/OS 2.3 grin.
 
   I would recommend against spending any of our development 
 resources on that.  The actual loading of code contributes 
 only a small amount of time to system initialization up through
 Master Scheduler Initialization.
 
 Here is an example of IPCS's  IPLDATA STATUS 
 for a z/OS 1.13 IPL  on an EC12 processor:
 
 *** IPL Statistics *** 
  
 IEAIPL10  00:00:00.000  ISNIRIM - Read SCPINFO 
 IEAIPL20  00:00:00.000  Test Block storage to 2G 
 IEAIPL11  00:00:00.019  Fast FIND initialization 
 IEAIPL31  00:00:00.000  LOAD service initialization 
 IEAIPL30  00:00:00.000  Load IPLWTO. Allocate IPL Msg Q 
 IEAIPL46  00:00:00.197  Read SCHIBs into IPL workspace 
 IEAIPL49  00:00:00.000  Process Load and Default parameters 
 IEAIPL50  00:00:00.357  IPL parmlib - process LOADxx and NUCLSTxx 
 IEAIPL51  00:00:00.000  System architecture 
 IEAIPL43  00:00:00.004  Find and Open IODF data set 
 IEAIPL60  00:00:00.000  Read NCRs from IODF 
 IEAIPL70  00:00:00.054  UIM environment - load CBD and IOS services 
 IEAIPL71  00:00:00.048  Build DFT for each device 
 IEAIPL08  00:00:00.000  Read EDT information from IODF 
 IEAIPL40  00:00:00.028  Read MLTs from nucleus 
 IEAIPL42  00:00:00.002  Read NMLs from nucleus (IEANynnn modules) 
 IEAIPL41  00:00:00.361  Read PDS directory entries and CESD records 
 IEAIPL05  00:00:00.000  Build and sort NUCMAP 
 IEAIPL02  00:00:01.403  Load nucleus modules 
 IEAIPL04  00:00:00.003  Allocate PFT and SQA/ESQA 
 IEAIPL14  00:00:00.000  Build LSQA/ELSQA for Master 
 IEAIPL09  00:00:00.015  IAXMI - PFT, master RAB,  etc. 
 IEAIPL07  00:00:00.002  Update AMODE for nucleus resident SVCs 
 IEAIPL03  00:00:00.009  Build UCBs, ULUT, etc. 
 IEAIPL18  00:00:00.006  Copy and relocate EDT to ESQA 
 IEAIPL99  00:00:00.109  Page frame table and cleanup 
  
 Total IPL Time:  00:00:02.628 
snipped
  
 IEEMB860  00:00:32.481  Uncaptured time:  00:00:00.079
  
 Total Time:  00:01:45.504  
 
  
   Note that loading the nucleus was only 1.403 seconds, and 
 CLPA was only 8.430 seconds. Out of the total of 105 seconds, 
 the largest contributors are initializing I/O devices (5.958 
 for non-DASD, 41.393 for DASD), and Dynamic Pathing (24.896).
 Together these acount for 69 of the 105 seconds.  Loading 
 from SSD would have no effect on this.
 
 Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-31 Thread Elpida Tzortzatos.

John,

Thank you for your comments, I do agree with you IPLing z/OS from Flash is 
something worth considering.


Elpida Tzortzatos
elp...@us.ibm.com

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-31 Thread Elpida Tzortzatos.

Shmuel,

There is a new architecture for writing and reading data to/from Flash 
Express but that architecture is not currently externalized.


Elpida Tzortzatos
elp...@us.ibm.com

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-31 Thread Jim Mulder

I am fairly sure 
 that there are only few differences between a zIIP and a CP 
 millicode load. I don't know, one way or the other, if a zIIP can 
 field I/O interrupts or do I/O type instructions. 

  zIIPs can and do use I/O instructions.  z/OS chooses to
enable zIIPs to field I/O interrupts for QDIO devices, but
not for other devices.

Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-31 Thread Clark Morris

On 28 Aug 2012 06:55:54 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

 With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is greate! 
 .. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12 tech guide 
 redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance items well 

I notice that the language most used on the z, COBOL has NO
improvements related to the EC12.  There are improvements for PL/1 and
C/C++.  This speaks louder than anything else as to whether IBM thinks
COBOL is on its deathbed.

Clark Morris

 Regards
 Meral

1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12

The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and capacity for 
large scale
consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points of the 
zEC12 contribute
to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the z196.
/Architecture implementation enhancements:

 Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other
exploiters

 Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online
re-compilation
capability for Java workloads

 Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools,
Java heap size and
other large structures

 Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance

 Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:

 Six processor cores per chip

 Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design

 Improved pipeline balance

 Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput

 Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput

 New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache
structures for instructions
and L2 operands

 Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses

 Bigger Level 2 cache with shorter latency

 Third level on-chip shared cache is doubled

 Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled

 Hardware and software prefetcher handling improvements

 Increased execution/completion throughput

 Improve fetch and store conflict scheme

 Enhance branch prediction structure and sequential instruction
fetching

 Millicode performance improvements

 Optimized floating-point performance

 Faster engine for fixed-point division

 New second level branch prediction array

 One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core

 Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions

 Higher clock frequency at 5.5 GHz

 IBM CMOS 13S 32nm SOI technology with IBM eDRAM technology.
zEC12 design enhancements:

 Increased total number of PUs available on the system, from 96 to
120, and number of
characterizable cores, from 80 to 101

 Hardware System Area increased from 16 GB to 32 GB

 Increased default number of SAP processors per book

 New CFCC code available for improved performance
 Elapsed time improvements when dynamically altering the size of a cache 
structure
 DB2 conditional write to a group buffer pool (GBP)
 Performance improvements for coupling facility cache structures to avoid 
flooding the
coupling facility cache with changed data and avoid excessive delays and 
backlogs for
cast-out processing
 Performance throughput enhancements for parallel cache castout processing by
extending the number of RCC cursors beyond 512
 CF Storage class and castout class contention avoidance by breaking up 
individual
storage class and castout class queues to reduce storage class and castout 
class latch
contention.
New features available on the zEC12:

 Crypto Express4S performance enhancements

 Flash Express PCIe cards to handle paging workload spikes and improve
performance




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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Dana Mitchell

Is it just me,  or is Flash Express not all that different than Expanded 
Storage ala 3090?

Dana

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Bob Shannon

 or is Flash Express not all that different than Expanded Storage ala 3090?

The concept is very similar;  the implementation is very different. Instead of 
designing a different type of memory they utilize off the shelf flash drives. I 
personally consider it to be like expanded storage, but that's probably 
blasphemous. However, if it walks likes a duck 

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread McKown, John

That was my first thought too. However, at least in the later modules, Expanded 
Storage was simply regular storage which was so configured. I.e. you could 
change Expanded Storage to normal Storage and vice versa. The Flash Express 
storage, from another poster, is actually implemented in an SSD drive inside 
the box. From his description, it was like the SSD drives you can buy. Makes me 
wonder why IBM did not implement it on an SSD PCIe card. An SSD drive is 
normally connected via a 6 Gbs SATA connection. Which requires a SATA card. The 
PCIe puts the SSD directly on the PCIe card along with the controller processor.

-- 
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone *
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

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Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The 
MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM


 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
 On Behalf Of Dana Mitchell
 Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:34 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
 
 Is it just me,  or is Flash Express not all that different than
 Expanded Storage ala 3090?
 
 Dana
 
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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread John Gilmore

It is apparently very much cheaper than expanded storage, and it is
being talked about more as an alternative to pseudo-DASD for some
medium-volume uses than as slower main storage

--jg.

On 8/30/12, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote:
 That was my first thought too. However, at least in the later modules,
 Expanded Storage was simply regular storage which was so configured. I.e.
 you could change Expanded Storage to normal Storage and vice versa. The
 Flash Express storage, from another poster, is actually implemented in an
 SSD drive inside the box. From his description, it was like the SSD drives
 you can buy. Makes me wonder why IBM did not implement it on an SSD PCIe
 card. An SSD drive is normally connected via a 6 Gbs SATA connection. Which
 requires a SATA card. The PCIe puts the SSD directly on the PCIe card along
 with the controller processor.

 --
 John McKown
 Systems Engineer IV
 IT

 Administrative Services Group

 HealthMarkets(r)

 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
 (817) 255-3225 phone *
 john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

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 contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
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 issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake
 Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of
 TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM


 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
 On Behalf Of Dana Mitchell
 Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:34 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

 Is it just me,  or is Flash Express not all that different than
 Expanded Storage ala 3090?

 Dana

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Pew, Curtis G

On Aug 30, 2012, at 9:58 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com 
wrote:

 Makes me wonder why IBM did not implement it on an SSD PCIe card.

The way I read the Technical Guide, that's what they did.

-- 
Curtis Pew (c@its.utexas.edu)
ITS Systems Core
The University of Texas at Austin

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Mike Schwab

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Pew, Curtis G
curtis@austin.utexas.edu wrote:
 On Aug 30, 2012, at 9:58 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com 
 wrote:

 Makes me wonder why IBM did not implement it on an SSD PCIe card.

 The way I read the Technical Guide, that's what they did.
 --
 Curtis Pew (c@its.utexas.edu)

Could you create IPL and Paging packs on these devices?  In case of
exceeding SSD write limits and the devices fail, you would have
replace volumes on reqular volumes too.  Of course, once you IPL you
the I/O rate should be fairly low, and paging packs should have very
low I/O.
-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Pew, Curtis G

On Aug 30, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote:

 Could you create IPL and Paging packs on these devices?  In case of
 exceeding SSD write limits and the devices fail, you would have
 replace volumes on reqular volumes too.  Of course, once you IPL you
 the I/O rate should be fairly low, and paging packs should have very
 low I/O.

Again, all I know is what I've read in the announcements and the IBM 
zEnterprise EC12 Technical Guide Redbook I downloaded Tuesday, but it looks 
like for now this storage is only available for paging, and for that matter it 
will only work if you have z/OS 1.13 with PTFs applied. Plans are to add an API 
so applications (DB2 and Java are specifically mentioned) can use it directly 
as cache. But it won't be a device in your hardware configuration; it won't be 
managed like a disk at all. It seems to really be more like expanded storage, 
just implemented very differently.

-- 
Curtis Pew (c@its.utexas.edu)
ITS Systems Core
The University of Texas at Austin

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Greg Shirey

For what it's worth, there was this post back on Jan 22, 2008: 

https://listserv.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0801L=IBM-MAINP=R93313I

Greg


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of zMan
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:00 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

snip 

Lynn Wheeler, we know you're out there. Would that you would weigh in here,
explain yourself?
-- 
zMan 

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Elpida Tzortzatos.

Flash storage is integrated on the zEC12 as PCI Express (PCIe) attached RAID 10 
cards which plug as cable connected pairs in the I/O expansion drawer.

Initially the main application of Flash Express is as an extension to main 
memory in z/OS where it is integrated within the memory hierarchy to provide 
increased system availability and resiliency. 

There are several examples of how Flash Express on System z as exploited in 
z/OS provides for additional system availability and resiliency that is 
transparent to applications and requires no application changes. 
With Flash Express the system can reduce workload and response time delays due 
increased memory pressure during periods of peak demand, transitions between 
different workloads, or during collection of diagnostics.  For example when the 
workload on a customer’s system shifts from a transactional workload during a 
prime shift to a batch workload and then again back to a transactional workload 
during the next prime shift, response time delays can occur. These delays can 
be drastically reduced when data for the next prime shift needs to be 
transferred from disk backing store into main memory.  The same occurs when 
data is needed to be transferred into main memory as part of a diagnostic dump. 
Flash Express’ fast IO rates and low IO latency provide for decreased first 
failure data capture time, faster page-ins, of critical work, and allow the 
system to return to normal workload operations a lot faster. 

In z/OS flash memory has been integrated within the memory hierarchy to provide 
higher levels of system availability and speed. As Databases and JVMs are 
consuming larger amounts of memory in order to provide better transactional 
response times, lowering the OS memory management cost can only help improve 
overall response times.  The very fast random access and higher IOPs for reads 
in flash memory relative to disk drives, have enabled z/OS to provide the 
support for Pageable Large (1MB) Pages. Managing memory in 1MB granularity vs. 
4KB provides application performance benefits by reducing memory management 
costs. In today’s data intensive applications with large access to buffers, 
exploiting Large Pages allows for transferring larger chunks of data at faster 
speeds between main memory and flash. That can translate to better performance 
for DB2, Java or other analytic workloads.

Elpida Tzortzatos
elp...@us.ibm.com

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Elpida Tzortzatos.

Flash storage is integrated on zEC12 as PCI Express (PCIe) attached RAID 10 
cards which plug as cable connected pairs in the I/O expansion drawer

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread McKown, John

Thanks for the clarification. It was my assumption based on guess what the 
announcement meant, but left unsaid. I can see how the life of the SSD would 
not really be of any concern. I still like the concept of having IPL and NIP 
somehow resident on the SSD for very fast loading. Perhaps in z/OS 2.3 grin.

-- 
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 • N. Richland Hills • TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone •
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com • www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
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Life and Health Insurance Company.SM


 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
 On Behalf Of Elpida Tzortzatos.
 Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 3:19 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
 
 John,
 
 Your comment in regards to when RSM sends paging data to flash is not
 accurate. If flash is available to a z/OS partition it will preferably
 be used for all paging data except for data needed for warm/quick
 starts like VIO. PLPA will be placed on both disk and flash . We use
 the PLPA disk copy for warm starts and the flash copy to resolve any
 PLPA page faults. All other paging data should go to flash as the first
 choice.
 
 Currently you can not IPL a z/OS system from Flash Express.
 
 In term of write endurance it should not be a concern, a lot of smart
 IBM engineers looked at the numbers and the life expectancy of the z
 Flash Express card pair should outlive its technology use. We expect
 customers will migrate to the next generation of flash technology long
 before wear out becomes an issue. In addition to wear leveling
 algorithms exployed at the SSD level, and over provisioning, additional
 z write reduction algorithms were used to extend the life of the SSDs.
 
 Elpida Tzortzatos
 elp...@us.ibm.com
 
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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread George Henke

Please check out the following excerpt.  Is it right?  Who is going to buy
obsolete inventory at the same price as current inventory?  Are there not
many resellers out there who will drop the price of the z196?



The three items below make going with the new processor a no brainer compar=
ed to a z196, even if there are not any specific features that help the CMS=
 workload.
   IBM does NOT provide fire sales to push out its old stock.  Therefo=
re, upgrading to a EC12 will not cost much more than upgrading to a z196 (t=
he upgrade calculations are a little higher for a two generation tech bump,=
 but only about 10% if adding MIPS).
   It will last longer before IBM freezes the in-tech HW and microcode=
 upgrades (z10 already has memory frozen; microcode will be frozen in June'=
13).  Expect between 2 and 3 years longer life from a EC12 compared to z196=
.
   The software is slightly cheaper compared to z196 AWLC.  Base 3 MSU=
s did not change; other AWLC products have the following discounts in what =
IBM is referring to as TU1 (Technology Update Pricing for AWLC).   Referenc=
e to IBM SW price document below.
o 4 -   45 MSUs   2.0%
  46 -  315 MSUs   4.0%
 316 - 1315 MSUs   4.5%
1316 - 2676 MSUs   5.0%
2677 - 5476 MSUs   6.0%
5477 - more MSUs   7.0%
http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=ANsubtype=CAa
ppname=gpateamsupplier=897letternum=ENUS212-320pdf=yes
http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=3DANsubtype=3DCAa=ppname=3Dgpateamsupplier=3D897letternum=3DENUS212-320pdf=3Dyes


-- 
George Henke
(C) 845 401 5614

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Mike Schwab

They don't build far ahead.  What is on the factory floor is already
sold and will be installed in 2 months.

So a customer can get a z196 in 2 months (or DR replacement in 2
weeks) or a EC12 in 6 to 12months.

Resellers of used equipment will start to drop prices when they start
getting a lot of equipment in.

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:22 PM, George Henke gahe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Please check out the following excerpt.  Is it right?  Who is going to buy
 obsolete inventory at the same price as current inventory?  Are there not
 many resellers out there who will drop the price of the z196?

 The three items below make going with the new processor a no brainer compar=
 ed to a z196, even if there are not any specific features that help the CMS=
  workload.
   IBM does NOT provide fire sales to push out its old stock.  Therefo=
 re, upgrading to a EC12 will not cost much more than upgrading to a z196 (t=
 he upgrade calculations are a little higher for a two generation tech bump,=
  but only about 10% if adding MIPS).
   It will last longer before IBM freezes the in-tech HW and microcode=
  upgrades (z10 already has memory frozen; microcode will be frozen in June'=
 13).  Expect between 2 and 3 years longer life from a EC12 compared to z196=
 .
   The software is slightly cheaper compared to z196 AWLC.  Base 3 MSU=
 s did not change; other AWLC products have the following discounts in what =
 IBM is referring to as TU1 (Technology Update Pricing for AWLC).   Referenc=
 e to IBM SW price document below.
 o 4 -   45 MSUs   2.0%
  46 -  315 MSUs   4.0%
 316 - 1315 MSUs   4.5%
1316 - 2676 MSUs   5.0%
2677 - 5476 MSUs   6.0%
5477 - more MSUs   7.0%
 http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=ANsubtype=CAa
 ppname=gpateamsupplier=897letternum=ENUS212-320pdf=yes
 http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=3DANsubtype=3DCAa=ppname=3Dgpateamsupplier=3D897letternum=3DENUS212-320pdf=3Dyes


-- 
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)

In
58fc7f986fcb804286e23b59decf420f65c10...@nwt-s-mbx1.rocketsoftware.com,
on 08/30/2012
   at 02:40 PM, Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com said:

The concept is very similar;  the implementation is very different.
Instead of designing a different type of memory they utilize off the
shelf flash drives.

The architecture doesn't specify what type of storage to use for
expanded storage, only the instructions to access it. The real
question isn't whether flash express uses off the shelf components but
whether it uses the old interface or adds a new one. When is the new
PoOps due?

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-30 Thread Scott Ford

ZMan I feel the same. I realize not everyone knows all the tech stuff we deal 
with and I value a second pair of eyes as long as they are respectful and 
relative to the topic, no problem.


Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

On Aug 30, 2012, at 11:59 AM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:24 AM, Ron MacRae ronmac...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
 
 While there may be small pieces of relevent information these tend to be
 hidden in vast ammounts of verbiage.  However you should have the
 capability to ignore all such posts and direct them to a SPAM folder, as I
 do, without too much pain?
 
 
 Right, I could ignore him entirely. But (a) it drags down the quality of
 the list; (b) he DOES make occasional relevant comments, which I'd hate to
 miss; and (c) it's rude, in a public forum. He knows better: he's been
 around.
 
 He did some interesting stuff, which I (and others) would like to hear
 about. But posting about something that happened to use the same name
 (Medusa) as a word that someone mentioned in passing makes it pretty
 clear that this is automated, and that makes it spam. As a member of the
 list, I'm going to say Please stop spamming to someone who should know
 better (I wouldn't bother with a headhunter or other non-entity).
 
 Plenty of venues cherish detailed technology history, anecdotes, war
 stories, failure and conflict recaps, digressions, etc. But people coming
 to IBM-MAIN for current zEnterprise discussions don't all want to wade
 through that. So it's best -- courteous -- to post in appropriate places.
 
 Lynn Wheeler, we know you're out there. Would that you would weigh in here,
 explain yourself?
 -- 
 zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it
 
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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-29 Thread R.S.

W dniu 2012-08-28 23:53, Eric Bielefeld pisze:

I'm curious - what do you do with all the cables coming in to the
machine. Obviously you have a power cable, and all the channel
cables. Do they get hung from the ceiling if you have no raised
floor?

Every machine (9672's, z900, z990, z9, z10, z196) *can be used* without
raised floor.
There is no black magic here: you have to connect 2 (4) thick power
cables and bunch of thin ESCON/FICON/OSA/SE cables. While not very
convenient it is perfectly feasible, especially if you get rid of the
doors.

--
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Lodz, Poland

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-29 Thread McKown, John

Why am I getting a vision of Medusa?  Or perhaps a sea anemone? Tentacles 
reaching out to entrap prey. Pity the small servers in the room, getting lashed 
with FICON cables. GRIN

-- 
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone *
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
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insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The 
MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM


 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
 On Behalf Of Skip Robinson
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 5:00 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
 
 With the EC12, according to our IBM rep, all cables come down from the
 ceiling, which is provided for in a slab-only data center.
 
 .
 .
 JO.Skip Robinson
 SCE Infrastructure Technology Services
 Electric Dragon Team Paddler
 SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
 626-302-7535 Office
 323-715-0595 Mobile
 jo.skip.robin...@sce.com
 
 
 
 From:   Eric Bielefeld eric-ibmm...@wi.rr.com
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Date:   08/28/2012 02:53 PM
 Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
 Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-
 m...@listserv.ua.edu
 
 
 
 I'm curious - what do you do with all the cables coming in to the
 machine.
  Obviously you have a power cable, and all the channel cables.  Do they
 get hung from the ceiling if you have no raised floor?
 
 --
 Eric Bielefeld
 Systems Programmer
 
 
  Skip Robinson jo.skip.robin...@sce.com wrote:
  No one has mentioned the enhancement that most interests us:the EC12
 can
 
  be installed in a data center *without raised floor*.  Slab floors
 have
  become de rigour for new built-from-scratch data centers. The z114
 can
 be
  mounted on slab but not the z196. This is the first Enterprise Class
  mainframe that can live happily in the brave new world.
 
  .
  .
  JO.Skip Robinson
 
 
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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-29 Thread Anne Lynn Wheeler

john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown, John) writes:
 Why am I getting a vision of Medusa?  Or perhaps a sea anemone?
 Tentacles reaching out to entrap prey. Pity the small servers in the
 room, getting lashed with FICON cables. GRIN

IBM 1991 (power) cluster scaleup with fiber-channel (FICON is layered on
top of base fiber-channel standard) was in fact code-named *MEDUSA*
... old email (fiber-channel was common use in non-mainframe long before
FICON):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

the cluster scaleup for commercial (128 systems), also referenced here
regarding early jan1992 meeting in ellison's conference room
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13

as part of IBM's ha/cmp product ... old posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

mainframe DB2 were complaining that if I was allowed to continue, it
would be a minimum of five years (if not decades) ahead of them.  the
issue was this predated IBM's non-mainframe DB2 products, so had to go
to other vendors to get RDBMS on IBM's non-mainframes. These vendors
tended to have relatively common source base for both their vax-cluster
and unix platforms ...  so the issue was to adapt their vax-cluster
support to unix platform and scale it up.

possibly within hrs of the last medusa email end of jan92, the
cluster-scaleup was transferred and we were told that we couldn't work
on anything with more than four processors. A couple weeks later, it was
announced as supercomputer for numerical intensive only ...  press from
17Feb1992 for *scientifica nd technical only*
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters1
another press item fro 11May1992
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters2

nearly 20yrs later ... From the Annals of Release No Software Before
Its Time (Power DB2 with cluster of 100 systems)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#43

rebranded pureScale ...
http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/28593.wss

current tpc-c (rdbms) results/rankings
http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-29 Thread Phil Smith

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Kirk Wolf wrote, in part:
assume that the CPACF Co-processor assists with UTF8-16 conversion
nstructions, as well as compression instructions.   I guess that somehow
IBM considers this crypto since its on the crypto co-processor.

Right. The EC12 Technical *Intro* (as oppposed to *Guide*) at 
http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks.nsf/RedpieceAbstracts/sg248050.html?Open 
says in part:
New hardware support for Unicode UTF8UTF16 bulk conversions (CU12/CU21)

So it appears that the point here is offload some fiddly bit-twiddling to the 
cheaper MIPS. I'd guess that it has to be more than some number of bytes to 
make that worthwhile, with the overhead added by the CEX call!

My motto: CEX is not always good :)
--
...phsiii

Phil Smith III
p...@voltage.commailto:p...@voltage.com
Voltage Security, Inc.
www.voltage.comhttp://www.voltage.com/
(703) 476-4511 (home office)
(703) 568-6662 (cell)


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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-29 Thread zMan

Lynn: This has nothing to do with EC12, or top-mounted cables. Are you
generating these posts programmatically? Please stop if so. You have some
interesting things to contirbute, but random word-matching doesn't qualify.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Anne  Lynn Wheeler l...@garlic.comwrote:

 john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown, John) writes:
  Why am I getting a vision of Medusa?  Or perhaps a sea anemone?
  Tentacles reaching out to entrap prey. Pity the small servers in the
  room, getting lashed with FICON cables. GRIN

 IBM 1991 (power) cluster scaleup with fiber-channel (FICON is layered on
 top of base fiber-channel standard) was in fact code-named *MEDUSA*
 ... old email (fiber-channel was common use in non-mainframe long before
 FICON):
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

 the cluster scaleup for commercial (128 systems), also referenced here
 regarding early jan1992 meeting in ellison's conference room
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13

 as part of IBM's ha/cmp product ... old posts
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

 mainframe DB2 were complaining that if I was allowed to continue, it
 would be a minimum of five years (if not decades) ahead of them.  the
 issue was this predated IBM's non-mainframe DB2 products, so had to go
 to other vendors to get RDBMS on IBM's non-mainframes. These vendors
 tended to have relatively common source base for both their vax-cluster
 and unix platforms ...  so the issue was to adapt their vax-cluster
 support to unix platform and scale it up.

 possibly within hrs of the last medusa email end of jan92, the
 cluster-scaleup was transferred and we were told that we couldn't work
 on anything with more than four processors. A couple weeks later, it was
 announced as supercomputer for numerical intensive only ...  press from
 17Feb1992 for *scientifica nd technical only*
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters1
 another press item fro 11May1992
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters2

 nearly 20yrs later ... From the Annals of Release No Software Before
 Its Time (Power DB2 with cluster of 100 systems)
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#43

 rebranded pureScale ...
 http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/28593.wss

 current tpc-c (rdbms) results/rankings
 http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp

 --
 virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

 --
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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-29 Thread Chip Grantham

zMan doesn't speak for me. 

Chipster




 



From:   zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date:   08/29/2012 11:19 AM
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU



Lynn: This has nothing to do with EC12, or top-mounted cables. Are you
generating these posts programmatically? Please stop if so. You have some
interesting things to contirbute, but random word-matching doesn't 
qualify.

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Anne  Lynn Wheeler 
l...@garlic.comwrote:

 john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown, John) writes:
  Why am I getting a vision of Medusa?  Or perhaps a sea anemone?
  Tentacles reaching out to entrap prey. Pity the small servers in the
  room, getting lashed with FICON cables. GRIN

 IBM 1991 (power) cluster scaleup with fiber-channel (FICON is layered on
 top of base fiber-channel standard) was in fact code-named *MEDUSA*
 ... old email (fiber-channel was common use in non-mainframe long before
 FICON):
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

 the cluster scaleup for commercial (128 systems), also referenced here
 regarding early jan1992 meeting in ellison's conference room
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13

 as part of IBM's ha/cmp product ... old posts
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

 mainframe DB2 were complaining that if I was allowed to continue, it
 would be a minimum of five years (if not decades) ahead of them.  the
 issue was this predated IBM's non-mainframe DB2 products, so had to go
 to other vendors to get RDBMS on IBM's non-mainframes. These vendors
 tended to have relatively common source base for both their vax-cluster
 and unix platforms ...  so the issue was to adapt their vax-cluster
 support to unix platform and scale it up.

 possibly within hrs of the last medusa email end of jan92, the
 cluster-scaleup was transferred and we were told that we couldn't work
 on anything with more than four processors. A couple weeks later, it was
 announced as supercomputer for numerical intensive only ...  press from
 17Feb1992 for *scientifica nd technical only*
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters1
 another press item fro 11May1992
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters2

 nearly 20yrs later ... From the Annals of Release No Software Before
 Its Time (Power DB2 with cluster of 100 systems)
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#43

 rebranded pureScale ...
 http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/28593.wss

 current tpc-c (rdbms) results/rankings
 http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp

 --
 virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-29 Thread Anne Lynn Wheeler

l...@garlic.com (Anne  Lynn Wheeler) writes:
 nearly 20yrs later ... From the Annals of Release No Software Before
 Its Time (Power DB2 with cluster of 100 systems)
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#43

 rebranded pureScale ...
 http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/28593.wss

 current tpc-c (rdbms) results/rankings
 http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#39 The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

EC12 announcement estimates it has 30% increase in DBMS thruput
(compared to z196)

old report estimated 5m tpmC for max configured z10 which could give a
guestimate of 7.5m tpmC for max configured z196 ... and at 30% increase
would give guestimate of 9.74m tpmC for max configured EC12. that could
put EC12 just below number two in the current tpmC rankings ... but
presumably an enormous way off in terms of price/tpmC.

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-29 Thread Tony Harminc

On 28 August 2012 10:55, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote:
 On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:49:21 -0400, Tony Harminc wrote:

 Presumably optionally disabled to comply with export restrictions?

Is there really anywhere these days you can send a mainframe to that
you can't send a crypto processor to? Surely no one in Cuba or Iran
can order up a zEC12 in any case, even if a handful of cheap GPUs have
more computing power.

 I had thought restrictions applied anywhere outside the U.S. and Canada.
 But I may be operating on outdated misinformation.

I pay little attention to the details of this stuff. Strong crypto is
ubiquitous and cheap, and much of it does not originate in the USA, so
efforts to control its export are doomed. Controlling exports of very
high end reliable computers, on the other hand, may well be both
feasible and effective.

 You forgot North Korea.

I gave only examples, and the list changes from time to time for
political reasons. Does it still include Taliban controlled areas of
Afghanistan, or would it be impolitic to suggest that such areas
still exist?

Tony H.

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Shane Ginnane

So 
IBM obviously couldn't use the z11 name and so the marketing intelligentsia 
came up with that marvellous ploy to fill the gap.

Let's hope they have dibs on the next few iterations of znumber, so we can 
avoid this farce again in future.

Shane ...

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Alvaro Guirao Lopez

Copyied from IBMVM list:

The zEC12 web page:

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/news/announcement/20120828_announce.html



2012/8/28 Alvaro Guirao Lopez alvarogui...@gmail.com

 OK, I was thinking in 101 available


 2012/8/28 Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com

 EC12, 120 cores, z196, 96 cores.

 On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 5:27 AM, Alvaro Guirao Lopez
 alvarogui...@gmail.com wrote:
  I did'nt see it, but I understand EC12 means Enterpise Class 12 (why
 12?)
 
  That could be the reason mainframezone had chaged the name to Enterprise
  Class.
 --
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 Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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 --
 Un saludo.
 Álvaro Guirao




-- 
Un saludo.
Álvaro Guirao

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Bob Shannon

Or maybe they went back to the old numbering system: z9, z10, z196, z12. Z196 
may have been justifiable from a marketing standpoint, but most people didn't 
know what it meant. Why the new machine is zEC12 instead of z12EC is also 
puzzling. Presumably there will be a zBC12 down the road.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread zMan

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.comwrote:

 Why not ZZtop?


Boo hiss.
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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Phil Smith III

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Alvaro Guirao Lopez
alvarogui...@gmail.com wrote:

I did'nt see it, but I understand EC12 means Enterpise Class 12 (why 12?)

 

12 comes after 11, and while the z196 wasn't called the z-anything-11, it
logically was. I think we can safely consider the z196 naming convention to
be an aberration, hopefully not to be repeated (although these are the same
folks who brought us the Magic Box and Super Human Software campaigns,
so anything's possible).

 

That could be the reason mainframezone had chaged the name to Enterprise
Class.


Hm? Thomas Publications aka Enterprise Systems Media changed Mainframe
Executive to Enterprise Executive, and z/Journal to Enterprise Tech Journal.
Enterprise Class was IBM's name for the big machines since the z9
machines. (As opposed, of course, to Business Class, which always struck
me as funny, since IBM essentially co-opted the name enterprise to be
synonymous with business back in 1990 with the ESA announcement. Reminds
me of a meeting I was in once, where a marketroid was describing something
about support options. Suppose we have three levels of support, he began.
Basic, Standard, and.um - he paused to think of a third name. Regular? I
suggested, which got me a dirty look!)

 

I believe the Thomas changes were to broaden the publications' appeal,
acknowledging the reality that nobody is *just* a mainframe shop any more.
With the zBX, even that hypothetical all-mainframe shop isn't necessarily
that any more.

 

.phsiii


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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Roberto Halais

There you go!

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9230661/IBM_goes_big_on_new_mainframe_with_fastest_chip_flash_memory

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Tom Ambros thomas_amb...@keybank.comwrote:

It cracks me up that there are about 12 posts about the name and nothing
about the content.

Thomas Ambros
Operating Systems and Connectivity Engineering
518-436-6433

From: Phil Smith III li...@akphs.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 08/28/2012 08:47
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Alvaro Guirao Lopez
alvarogui...@gmail.com wrote:

I did'nt see it, but I understand EC12 means Enterpise Class 12 (why 12?)

12 comes after 11, and while the z196 wasn't called the z-anything-11, it
logically was. I think we can safely consider the z196 naming convention
to
be an aberration, hopefully not to be repeated (although these are the
same
folks who brought us the Magic Box and Super Human Software campaigns,
so anything's possible).

That could be the reason mainframezone had chaged the name to Enterprise
Class.

Hm? Thomas Publications aka Enterprise Systems Media changed Mainframe
Executive to Enterprise Executive, and z/Journal to Enterprise Tech
Journal.
Enterprise Class was IBM's name for the big machines since the z9
machines. (As opposed, of course, to Business Class, which always struck
me as funny, since IBM essentially co-opted the name enterprise to be
synonymous with business back in 1990 with the ESA announcement. Reminds
me of a meeting I was in once, where a marketroid was describing something
about support options. Suppose we have three levels of support, he
began.
Basic, Standard, and.um - he paused to think of a third name. Regular?
I
suggested, which got me a dirty look!)

I believe the Thomas changes were to broaden the publications' appeal,
acknowledging the reality that nobody is *just* a mainframe shop any more.
With the zBX, even that hypothetical all-mainframe shop isn't necessarily
that any more.

.phsiii

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 05:11:56 -0500, Shane Ginnane wrote:

So 
IBM obviously couldn't use the z11 name and so the marketing intelligentsia 
came up with that marvellous ploy to fill the gap.

Let's hope they have dibs on the next few iterations of znumber, so we can 
avoid this farce again in future.
 
Who cares!?

What's in a name?  ...  -- WS

Actually, some things.  IBM didn't understand that the output of
uname -s is customarily used as an API by UNIX scripts when
they changed it from OS/390 to z/OS.  But IBM relented, and
uname now says we're at OS/390 1.23.  And even OS/390
has problems; the solidus breaks GNU autoconfigure.  IBM does
not much care to play well with others.

-- gil

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread McKown, John

Really? It would be impressive, but I'll be that name is copyrighted by the 
group. Of course there is always used by permission.

-- 
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 • N. Richland Hills • TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone •
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com • www.HealthMarkets.com

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 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
 On Behalf Of Richard Pinion
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:26 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
 
 Why not ZZtop?
 
 Richard and Vickie Pinion
 
 --- st...@trainersfriend.com wrote:
 
 From: Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.com
 To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 06:19:10 -0600
 
 On 8/28/2012 4:11 AM, Shane Ginnane wrote:
  So 
  IBM obviously couldn't use the z11 name and so the marketing
 intelligentsia came up with that marvellous ploy to fill the gap.
 
  Let's hope they have dibs on the next few iterations of znumber, so
 we can avoid this farce again in future.
 
 I dunno: z13 might be considered unlucky. Of course, so would EC13.  :-
 )
 
 
  Shane ...
 
 
 --
 
 Kind regards,
 
 -Steve Comstock
 The Trainer's Friend, Inc.
 
 303-355-2752
 http://www.trainersfriend.com
 
 * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment!
+ Training your people is an excellent investment
 
 * Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment
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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4)

Why not ZZtop?

Copyright violation?

--
Peter Hunkeler

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Richard Pinion

let's try ZZt0p

Richard and Vickie Pinion

--- peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com wrote:

From: Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4) peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com
To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:45:32 +0200

Why not ZZtop?

Copyright violation?

--
Peter Hunkeler

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_
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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Vernooij, CP - SPLXM

Hunkeler Peter  , KIUP 4 peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com wrote in
message
news:dc74548a025aff4a85f46926802a9b2308d2b...@chsa1035.share.beluni.net
...
 Why not ZZtop?
 
 Copyright violation?
 
 --
 Peter Hunkeler
 

And you cannot top *the* top, even not with 3 z's.
I ain't asking for much, IBM take me downtown, ... no that will never
turn into something good.

Kees.


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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Meral Temel (Garanti Teknoloji)

 With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is greate! 
.. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12 tech guide 
redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance items well 

 Regards
 Meral

1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12

The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and capacity for 
large scale
consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design points of the 
zEC12 contribute
to overall performance and throughput improvements as compared to the z196.
/Architecture implementation enhancements:
 Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other exploiters
 Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning online 
re-compilation
capability for Java workloads
 Enhanced DAT-2 for supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools, Java 
heap size and
other large structures
 Software directives implementation to improve hardware performance
 Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
 Six processor cores per chip
 Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design
 Improved pipeline balance
 Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput
 Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput
 New design for Level 2 private cache with separation of cache structures for 
instructions
and L2 operands
 Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses
 Bigger Level 2 cache with shorter latency
 Third level on-chip shared cache is doubled
 Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled
 Hardware and software prefetcher handling improvements
 Increased execution/completion throughput
 Improve fetch and store conflict scheme
 Enhance branch prediction structure and sequential instruction fetching
 Millicode performance improvements
 Optimized floating-point performance
 Faster engine for fixed-point division
 New second level branch prediction array
 One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core
 Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions
 Higher clock frequency at 5.5 GHz
 IBM CMOS 13S 32nm SOI technology with IBM eDRAM technology.
zEC12 design enhancements:
 Increased total number of PUs available on the system, from 96 to 120, and 
number of
characterizable cores, from 80 to 101
 Hardware System Area increased from 16 GB to 32 GB
 Increased default number of SAP processors per book
 New CFCC code available for improved performance
– Elapsed time improvements when dynamically altering the size of a cache 
structure
– DB2 conditional write to a group buffer pool (GBP)
– Performance improvements for coupling facility cache structures to avoid 
flooding the
coupling facility cache with changed data and avoid excessive delays and 
backlogs for
cast-out processing
– Performance throughput enhancements for parallel cache castout processing by
extending the number of RCC cursors beyond 512
– CF Storage class and castout class contention avoidance by breaking up 
individual
storage class and castout class queues to reduce storage class and castout 
class latch
contention.
New features available on the zEC12:
 Crypto Express4S performance enhancements
 Flash Express PCIe cards to handle paging workload spikes and improve 
performance




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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Knutson, Sam

These were the most interesting links I found so far and sent to my team in 
addition to the announce itself 

Announce 

http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?subtype=cainfotype=anappname=iSourcesupplier=877letternum=ENUSZG12-0262
 

Draft - IBM zEnterprise EC12 Technical Introduction

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks.nsf/RedpieceAbstracts/sg248050.html?Open 

Draft  - IBM zEnterprise EC12 Technical Guide

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redpieces/abstracts/sg248049.html?Open 

Non-IBM blog Mainframe Watch Belgium

http://mainframe-watch-belgium.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-new-ibm-zenterprise-ec12-technical.html
 

YouTube Video - IBM zEnterprise EC12 Walkthrough Video Featuring Nick Sardino

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N3QWegGFYYfeature=em-subs_digest 


The biggest surprise for me was zAware the new monitoring appliance running in 
an LPAR.  This appears to be chargeable and currently just monitoring messages 
but moving infrastructure overhead and function out of the z/OS space into an 
LPAR is the MIPS Vacuum for this type of workload I have hoped to see for a 
while now.

There is a heavily promoted webcast starting in less than an hour that should 
cover all this. 

    Best Regards, 

    Sam Knutson, GEICO 
    System z Team Leader 
    mailto:sknut...@geico.com 
    (office)  301.986.3574 
    (cell) 301.996.1318   
   
Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast... 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Meral Temel (Garanti Teknoloji)
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

 With the new machine,it seems like there is  A LOT  to read which is greate! 
.. You may find it usefull to check  this part of Draft EC12 tech guide 
redbook.I  think it is nice,because it summaries performance items well 

 Regards
 Meral

1.9.7 Main performance improvement drivers with zEC12

The zEC12 is designed to deliver new levels of performance and capacity for 
large scale consolidation and growth. The following attributes and design 
points of the zEC12 contribute to overall performance and throughput 
improvements as compared to the z196.
/Architecture implementation enhancements:
 Transactional Execution (TX) designed for z/OS, Java, DB2 and other 
exploiters  Runtime Instrumentation (RI) provides dynamic and self-tuning 
online re-compilation capability for Java workloads  Enhanced DAT-2 for 
supporting 2 GB large pages for DB2 buffer pools, Java heap size and other 
large structures  Software directives implementation to improve hardware 
performance  Decimal format conversions for COBOL programs.
zEC12 microprocessor design enhancements:
 Six processor cores per chip
 Enhanced Out Of Order (OOO) execution design  Improved pipeline balance  
Enhanced branch prediction latency and instruction fetch throughput  
Improvements on execution bandwidth and throughput  New design for Level 2 
private cache with separation of cache structures for instructions and L2 
operands  Reduced access latency for most of Level 1 cache misses  Bigger 
Level 2 cache with shorter latency  Third level on-chip shared cache is 
doubled  Fourth level book-shared cache is doubled  Hardware and software 
prefetcher handling improvements  Increased execution/completion throughput  
Improve fetch and store conflict scheme  Enhance branch prediction structure 
and sequential instruction fetching  Millicode performance improvements  
Optimized floating-point performance  Faster engine for fixed-point division  
New second level branch prediction array  One cryptographic/compression 
co-processor per core  Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions  
Higher clock frequency at 5.5 GHz  IBM CMOS 13S 32nm SOI technology with IBM 
eDRAM technology.
zEC12 design enhancements:
 Increased total number of PUs available on the system, from 96 to 120, and 
number of characterizable cores, from 80 to 101  Hardware System Area 
increased from 16 GB to 32 GB  Increased default number of SAP processors per 
book  New CFCC code available for improved performance – Elapsed time 
improvements when dynamically altering the size of a cache structure – DB2 
conditional write to a group buffer pool (GBP) – Performance improvements for 
coupling facility cache structures to avoid flooding the coupling facility 
cache with changed data and avoid excessive delays and backlogs for cast-out 
processing – Performance throughput enhancements for parallel cache castout 
processing by extending the number of RCC cursors beyond 512 – CF Storage class 
and castout class contention avoidance by breaking up individual storage class 
and castout class queues to reduce storage class and castout class latch 
contention.
New features available on the zEC12:
 Crypto Express4S performance enhancements

Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 13:55:43 +, Meral Temel (Garanti Teknoloji) wrote:

 One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core

Presumably optionally disabled to comply with export restrictions?
I'm told we have the cryptographic PRNG disabled on most of our
processors because it's separately priced.  Is that true?  Will it
ever change?

 Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions
 
Shouldn't that be UTF-8?  I had never heard of UTF-16, but apparently
Microsoft uses it, so it must be OK.

Is UTF8UTF16 properly deemed cryptography?  What about ROT-13?

-- gil

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Tony Harminc

On 28 August 2012 10:29, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote:

  One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core

 Presumably optionally disabled to comply with export restrictions?

Is there really anywhere these days you can send a mainframe to that
you can't send a crypto processor to? Surely no one in Cuba or Iran
can order up a zEC12 in any case, even if a handful of cheap GPUs have
more computing power.

Tony H.

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:49:21 -0400, Tony Harminc wrote:

 Presumably optionally disabled to comply with export restrictions?

Is there really anywhere these days you can send a mainframe to that
you can't send a crypto processor to? Surely no one in Cuba or Iran
can order up a zEC12 in any case, even if a handful of cheap GPUs have
more computing power.
 
I had thought restrictions applied anywhere outside the U.S. and Canada.
But I may be operating on outdated misinformation.

You forgot North Korea.

-- gil

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread burgess, christopher

It may be that is a generation 12 CMOS CPU.

 Thanks,
Chris Burgess
Phone: 1-800-445-2588 x42149
   1-508-249-2149
Fax: 1-508-544-2076
Email: burgess_christop...@emc.com







-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 13:55:43 +, Meral Temel (Garanti Teknoloji) wrote:

 One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core

Presumably optionally disabled to comply with export restrictions?
I'm told we have the cryptographic PRNG disabled on most of our processors 
because it's separately priced.  Is that true?  Will it ever change?

 Cryptography support of UTF8UTF16 conversions 
Shouldn't that be UTF-8?  I had never heard of UTF-16, but apparently 
Microsoft uses it, so it must be OK.

Is UTF8UTF16 properly deemed cryptography?  What about ROT-13?

-- gil

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Todd Last

According to today's virtual event, the EC12 is the 12th generation of modern 
mainframes.  Can anyone list out the 11 previous generations?

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:44:32 -0500, Todd Last wrote:

According to today's virtual event, the EC12 is the 12th generation of modern 
mainframes.  Can anyone list out the 11 previous generations?

Something like:

Matthew 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of 
Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his 
brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom 
begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
  ...

-- gil

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Kirk Wolf

From:
http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/core/basic/intl/faq.jsp#core-textrep

 The primitive data type char in the Java programming language is an
unsigned 16-bit integer that can represent a Unicode code point in the
range U+ to U+, or the code units of
UTF-16http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/core/basic/intl/faq.jsp#utf-16
.

Confusing eh?
I guess you would call what Java uses internally a UTF-16 subset.

So, technically not UTF-16, but practically UTF-16  (a two-byte UTF-16
subset)


On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.comwrote:

 On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:39:03 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:
 
 UTF-16 is used in Java (and other languages) as the internal
 representation
 of characters and strings (each character represented by two bytes).
 
 No.  Not according to:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-16

 UTF-16 (16-bit Unicode Transformation Format) is a character encoding
 for
 Unicode capable of encoding 1,112,064[1] numbers (called code points)
 in the
 Unicode code space from 0 to 0x10. It produces a variable-length
 result
 of either one or two 16-bit code units per code point.

 And:

 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2781.txt

The rules for how characters are encoded in UTF-16 are:

-  Characters with values less than 0x1 are represented as a
   single 16-bit integer with a value equal to that of the character
   number.

-  Characters with values between 0x1 and 0x10 are
   represented by a 16-bit integer with a value between 0xD800 and
   0xDBFF (within the so-called high-half zone or high surrogate
   area) followed by a 16-bit integer with a value between 0xDC00 and
   0xDFFF (within the so-called low-half zone or low surrogate area).

-  Characters with values greater than 0x10 cannot be encoded in
   UTF-16.

 -- gil

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread August Carideo

IBM System z z114 2818 mainframes
IBM System z z196 2817 mainframes
IBM System z z10 BC 2098 mainframes
IBM System z z10 EC 2097 mainframes
IBM Series z z9 BC Danu 2096 mainframes
IBM Series z z9 EC Danu 2094 mainframes
IBM zSeries 2086 mainframes
IBM zSeries 2084 mainframes
IBM zSeries 2066 mainframes
IBM zSeries 2066 mainframes for Linux
IBM zSeries 2064 mainframes



From:   Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date:   08/28/2012 12:29 PM
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU



Can anyone list out the 11 previous generations

9672 G1-G6
z800/900
z890/990
z9 EC/BC
z10 EC/BC
z196/z114

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 11:29:48 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:

From:
http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/core/basic/intl/faq.jsp#core-textrep

 The primitive data type char in the Java programming language is an
unsigned 16-bit integer that can represent a Unicode code point in the
range U+ to U+, or the code units of
UTF-16http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/core/basic/intl/faq.jsp#utf-16
.
Which does describe UTF-16 as a variable-length encoding of which
Java uses a subset.

Confusing eh?
I guess you would call what Java uses internally a UTF-16 subset.

So, technically not UTF-16, but practically UTF-16  (a two-byte UTF-16
subset)
 
That's more like UCS-2.  Big-endian or little-endian?

-- gil

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Kirk Talman

I thought we called them engines because each engine was two cores for 
redundancy and error detection.

IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU wrote on 
08/28/2012 06:52:08 AM:

 From: Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com

 EC12, 120 cores, z196, 96 cores.


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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread R.S.

W dniu 2012-08-28 16:29, Paul Gilmartin pisze:

On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 13:55:43 +, Meral Temel (Garanti Teknoloji) wrote:

One cryptographic/compression co-processor per core

Presumably optionally disabled to comply with export restrictions?
I'm told we have the cryptographic PRNG disabled on most of our
processors because it's separately priced. Is that true? Will it
ever change?

I really doubt it. CPACF is free of charge and AFAIK not restricted (I
don't know about Cuba or North Korea). Secure key cryptography requires
Crypto cards which cost money - like FICON or OSA card.

No special fee for PRNG, no special paid LIC (except CPACF).

BTW: I'm not including old machines - z/900 and older, which have had CCF.

--
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Lodz, Poland

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread shai hess

Why IBM manufacture new MF?
Any new customers using MF or any increasing MF processing?

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Kirk Talman rkueb...@tsys.com wrote:

 I thought we called them engines because each engine was two cores for
 redundancy and error detection.

 IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU wrote on
 08/28/2012 06:52:08 AM:

  From: Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com

  EC12, 120 cores, z196, 96 cores.


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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Scott Ford

1 pt for Kees

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

On Aug 28, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM kees.verno...@klm.com 
wrote:

 Hunkeler Peter  , KIUP 4 peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com wrote in
 message
 news:dc74548a025aff4a85f46926802a9b2308d2b...@chsa1035.share.beluni.net
 ...
 Why not ZZtop?
 
 Copyright violation?
 
 --
 Peter Hunkeler
 
 
 And you cannot top *the* top, even not with 3 z's.
 I ain't asking for much, IBM take me downtown, ... no that will never
 turn into something good.
 
 Kees.
 
 
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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread August Carideo

and it fits very few environments running now ( other then up-to-date  Z/os
shops )
and eliminated ESCON
there would have to be major lic cost saving to even look into this, which
I did not see mentioned



From:   shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date:   08/28/2012 01:31 PM
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU



Why IBM manufacture new MF?
Any new customers using MF or any increasing MF processing?

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Kirk Talman rkueb...@tsys.com wrote:

 I thought we called them engines because each engine was two cores for
 redundancy and error detection.

 IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU wrote on
 08/28/2012 06:52:08 AM:

  From: Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com

  EC12, 120 cores, z196, 96 cores.


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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Mark Post

 On 8/28/2012 at 01:31 PM, shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com wrote: 
 Why IBM manufacture new MF?

Because customers will buy them.

 Any new customers using MF or any increasing MF processing?

According to IBM, a total of 142-150 new customers since 2009.  Workload growth 
rate of existing customers is averaging around 30% per year.


Mark Post

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Mark Post

 On 8/28/2012 at 01:59 PM, shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com wrote: 
 On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Mark Post mp...@suse.com wrote:
 
  On 8/28/2012 at 01:31 PM, shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com wrote:
-snip-
  Any new customers using MF or any increasing MF processing?

 According to IBM, a total of 142-150 new customers since 2009.  Workload
 growth rate of existing customers is averaging around 30% per year.

  Using LINUX or ZOS?

Some of both.  I'm aware of some Linux-only new customers, and others that are 
z/OS customers.


Mark Post

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Dave Day

To me what would be more interesting would be some statistics on shops 
that migrated off the platform, and have since come back.


I doubt if after having gone thru the time and expense of converting to 
a unix or windows based platform, many would be willing to
pay that time and expense again, to come back, even if the current 
platform left a lot to be desired.


Another statistic that would be interesting is how many tried to leave, 
and failed.


--Dave

On 8/28/2012 1:08 PM, shai hess wrote:

I wish IBM will publish the real number about the total number of customers
of MF in all world.
The reason is that the feeling is that many MF site shutdown MF site.
Publish the real number can support many of us who work and support
mainly the MF computers.

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:59 PM, shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com wrote:



  On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Mark Post mp...@suse.com wrote:


On 8/28/2012 at 01:31 PM, shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com wrote:

Why IBM manufacture new MF?

Because customers will buy them.

  OK.



Any new customers using MF or any increasing MF processing?

According to IBM, a total of 142-150 new customers since 2009.

  Workload growth rate of existing customers is averaging around 30% per
year.

  Using LINUX or ZOS?
Mark Post

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  Thank.
God bless you,
Shai






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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Skip Robinson

No one has mentioned the enhancement that most interests us:the EC12 can 
be installed in a data center *without raised floor*.  Slab floors have 
become de rigour for new built-from-scratch data centers. The z114 can be 
mounted on slab but not the z196. This is the first Enterprise Class 
mainframe that can live happily in the brave new world. 

.
.
JO.Skip Robinson
SCE Infrastructure Technology Services
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com



From:   August Carideo august.cari...@avon.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date:   08/28/2012 10:41 AM
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU



and it fits very few environments running now ( other then up-to-date Z/os
shops )
and eliminated ESCON
there would have to be major lic cost saving to even look into this, which
I did not see mentioned



From:   shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date:   08/28/2012 01:31 PM
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU



Why IBM manufacture new MF?
Any new customers using MF or any increasing MF processing?


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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread August Carideo

who says you cant install a Z/9 or z/10 w/o a raised floor LOL

From:   Skip Robinson jo.skip.robin...@sce.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date:   08/28/2012 02:22 PM
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

No one has mentioned the enhancement that most interests us:the EC12 can
be installed in a data center *without raised floor*.  Slab floors have
become de rigour for new built-from-scratch data centers. The z114 can be
mounted on slab but not the z196. This is the first Enterprise Class
mainframe that can live happily in the brave new world.

.
.
JO.Skip Robinson
SCE Infrastructure Technology Services
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com

From:   August Carideo august.cari...@avon.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date:   08/28/2012 10:41 AM
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

and it fits very few environments running now ( other then up-to-date Z/os
shops )
and eliminated ESCON
there would have to be major lic cost saving to even look into this, which
I did not see mentioned

From:   shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date:   08/28/2012 01:31 PM
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Why IBM manufacture new MF?
Any new customers using MF or any increasing MF processing?

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread R.S.

W dniu 2012-08-28 19:54, Mark Post pisze:

On 8/28/2012 at 01:31 PM, shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com
wrote:

Why IBM manufacture new MF?

Because customers will buy them.

Any new customers using MF or any increasing MF processing?

According to IBM, a total of 142-150 new customers since 2009.

How do you know? Did IBM publish the number anywhere?

Workload growth rate of existing customers is averaging around 30%
per year.

IMHO it's not good measure. For example, my team just have got new
laptops. The number of team members didn't grow, the number of machines
par capita is still approx. 1. The number of MIPS (or other CPU speed
units) grew up over 100%.

BTW: Even IBM admit the number of mainframe datacenters is not growing
due to consolidation.

BTW: IMHO the most important feature of new machine is SSD paging
device. Similar to expanded memory in the times of ESA. Back to the
future...

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Edward Jaffe


On 8/28/2012 7:27 AM, Knutson, Sam wrote:

The biggest surprise for me was zAware the new monitoring appliance running in 
an LPAR.  This appears to be chargeable and currently just monitoring messages 
but moving infrastructure overhead and function out of the z/OS space into an 
LPAR is the MIPS Vacuum for this type of workload I have hoped to see for a 
while now.


When I first heard about this, I thought of you right away, Sam! I sorely wanted 
to ask if you had any direct input into this design! :-)


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
310-338-0400 x318
edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Knutson, Sam

Many shops especially IBM's largest customers have requirements that are met by 
the new zEC12.  There are significant costs savings possible.

They can save money by consolidating multiple footprints using the increased 
capacity and meeting performance challenges.
Some applications are limited to a single unit of work but are still very 
important to customers so faster processors are important in order to keep up 
with growth.
- 25% faster processors yielding 50% more capacity in a single footprint with 
up to 101 customer usable cores.

Software savings derived from a decrease in MLC rates can help offset price 
increases and growing software costs from usage

http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=ansubtype=caappname=gpateamsupplier=877letternum=ENUSZP12-0416
 

New technology Flash Express memory offers significant promise to eliminate I/O 
and reduce CPU cycles improve throughput for the workloads that can benefit 
looks like large page exploiters and dumping for diagnostic data capture right 
away.  Everything old is new again seems like Expanded Storage but the cost has 
been advertised as dramatically lower than central storage and with up to 6.4TB 
and a relatively short instruction path to get their compared even to SSD disk 
you can see some interesting applications beyond what is already coming.  A 
cost of $125K for 1.6TB of Flash Express was mentioned in today's post 
announcement chat room but I have not seen that confirmed yet so am very 
interested to see more detailed pricing.   

If IBM is investing significant ($1B) amounts of money in RD you would expect 
they are doing it to benefit customers who have needs they are willing to pay 
to meet.  Those same customers are investing in staying current on z/OS to 
protect their investment.   What else do you expect them to do?


    Best Regards, 

    Sam Knutson, GEICO 
    System z Team Leader 
    mailto:sknut...@geico.com 
    (office)  301.986.3574 
    (cell) 301.996.1318  
Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast... 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of August Carideo
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 1:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

and it fits very few environments running now ( other then up-to-date  Z/os 
shops ) and eliminated ESCON there would have to be major lic cost saving to 
even look into this, which I did not see mentioned



From:   shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date:   08/28/2012 01:31 PM
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU



Why IBM manufacture new MF?
Any new customers using MF or any increasing MF processing?


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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Eric Bielefeld

I'm curious - what do you do with all the cables coming in to the machine.  
Obviously you have a power cable, and all the channel cables.  Do they get hung 
from the ceiling if you have no raised floor?

--
Eric Bielefeld
Systems Programmer


 Skip Robinson jo.skip.robin...@sce.com wrote: 
 No one has mentioned the enhancement that most interests us:the EC12 can 
 be installed in a data center *without raised floor*.  Slab floors have 
 become de rigour for new built-from-scratch data centers. The z114 can be 
 mounted on slab but not the z196. This is the first Enterprise Class 
 mainframe that can live happily in the brave new world. 
 
 .
 .
 JO.Skip Robinson
 SCE Infrastructure Technology Services
 Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
 SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
 626-302-7535 Office
 323-715-0595 Mobile
 jo.skip.robin...@sce.com

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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Skip Robinson

With the EC12, according to our IBM rep, all cables come down from the 
ceiling, which is provided for in a slab-only data center. 

.
.
JO.Skip Robinson
SCE Infrastructure Technology Services
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com



From:   Eric Bielefeld eric-ibmm...@wi.rr.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date:   08/28/2012 02:53 PM
Subject:Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU



I'm curious - what do you do with all the cables coming in to the machine. 
 Obviously you have a power cable, and all the channel cables.  Do they 
get hung from the ceiling if you have no raised floor?

--
Eric Bielefeld
Systems Programmer


 Skip Robinson jo.skip.robin...@sce.com wrote: 
 No one has mentioned the enhancement that most interests us:the EC12 can 

 be installed in a data center *without raised floor*.  Slab floors have 
 become de rigour for new built-from-scratch data centers. The z114 can 
be 
 mounted on slab but not the z196. This is the first Enterprise Class 
 mainframe that can live happily in the brave new world. 
 
 .
 .
 JO.Skip Robinson


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Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

2012-08-28 Thread Roger W. Suhr

  Using LINUX or ZOS?

Both + z/VM

Roger

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of shai hess
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 1:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The IBM zEnterprise EC12 announcment

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Mark Post mp...@suse.com wrote:

  On 8/28/2012 at 01:31 PM, shai hess shai.h...@gmail.com wrote:
  Why IBM manufacture new MF?

 Because customers will buy them.

  OK.


  Any new customers using MF or any increasing MF processing?

 According to IBM, a total of 142-150 new customers since 2009.  
 Workload
 growth rate of existing customers is averaging around 30% per year.

  Using LINUX or ZOS?


 Mark Post

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 Thank.
God bless you,
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