KR> Tail Wheel

[Ken Hurley]

If anyone has an extra tail wheel assembly they want to sell i'm
interested. If you can bring it to the annual fly-in I'll settle up with
you there. Call or text 417-343-6888, kenhurley50 at gmail.com.

Picture is too big and exceeds email capacity.



Thanks

Ken Hurley
kenhurley50 at gmail.com
417-343-6888

KR> tail wheel

[Larry Flesner]

Here is the photo of the 6 inch pneumatic tailwheel that replaced the 
rumbling little 4 inch little solid wheel.  No more rumble.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8763.JPG

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail Wheel Spring

[Jeff Scott]

?
?

I would recommend the "Aviation Products"
tailwheel assembly that has served me well for
550 hours now. I think Mark Langford used that
same assembly on 56ML I modified it a while back
by having the arm lengthened a bit over one inch
and installed a Matco 6" fully pneumatic wheel
assembly (not shown in the photo). I love it!!
It totally eliminated all the rumble of the old
4" solid wheel. My KR handles on the ground as
well as any tri-gear with no braking action
required. The springs are Maule anti-shimmy
springs. The unit is steerable with breakaway
full swivel at about 30 degrees. I can spin the KR on one wheel on the ramp.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8714.JPG


Larry Flesner


I would recommend the same, except to buy the one with the 6" semi-pneumatic 
wheel.  I have over 1100 hrs on mine now.  I do recommend adding a flat washer 
type bushing to the bottom of the vertical shaft so you can use the top nut on 
the tailwheel to preload it to prevent shimmy.  Other than adjusting the 
preload about every 50 hrs or so, and replacing the bearings once or twice in 
20 years now, it has been about as good of a tailwheel as I have ever owned.  


-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM

KR> Tail Wheel Spring

[Jeff Scott]

?Anyways, my question today is about tail wheel springs.

If I?m lucky my plane will look a bit like Pete Brautigam?s, and he has a very 
nice looking tail wheel spring set up. Most of the KR?s I see pictures of do 
not have tail wheel connect springs, which seems quite unusual. Clearly it must 
be ok. Is it?

Cheers,
Owen Hughes
___
?
I am assuming you are referencing the springs on the tailwheel steering cables 
typically found on other aircraft.  I had them on my KR for a number of years.  
With a little slack in the steering cables, the springs were typically standing 
straight up while in flight.  Generally speaking they were good for creating 
drag, but didn't serve much of a useful function for the plane.  I eventually 
eliminated them and prefer to fly with just a little slack in the cables for 
the tailwheel steering.  So on the ground, the primary steering is with the 
rudder.  The cables to the tailwheel will turn the tailwheel a bit just before 
the rudder pedal bottoms out.  Tight turns are always going to be made with the 
brakes anyway.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM

KR> Tail Wheel bearings

[Mark Langford]

I also recommend the 20 degree Aviation Products tailwheel, as I've had 
zero problems with mine other than wheel bearings.  For that reason, I 
would buy the tailwheel assembly directly from the source, Aviation 
Products, at (805) 646-6042, rather than AS  It is less expensive 
than from AS, and you know for a fact that you are getting high 
quality sealed (and lubricated) wheel bearings with it.

If that sounds ridiculous, please see about a quarter of the way down 
http://www.n56ml.com/kgear.html , where I was sold dry, ungreased (and 
ungreaseable) bearings by AS, with no apologies.  I like to spread 
this word whenever possible.  There's no point in feeding the bears, and 
rewarding them for knowingly screwing builders!

And no, the above has nothing to do with springs on the tailwheel 
cables, but as you can see from the photo on the website, I don't have 
any springs either, just a little bit of slack to that they don't limit 
rudder travel at full stop.  Troy Petteway recommended this setup, and 
it works fine on both N56ML and N891JF.

If you are on a budget and like to make things yourself, the tailwheel 
setup shown in the KR2 plans works fine, weighs less, and is at least as 
aerodynamic as about anything else you could think of.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Tail Wheel Spring

[svd]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input on the aileron gap seals.

Many of the gap seals on KR?s I?ve seen on the web we made of a 10mil mylar. A 
few mentioned that they get sucked into the gap making control difficult, and 
most with the RAF 48 airfoil don?t see improved performance.  Could it be that 
a overly flexible gap seal, sucked into the gap, would also stick up beyond the 
gap creating a mini spoiler - negating any drag reduction of gap sealing?

Anyways, my question today is about tail wheel springs.  

If I?m lucky my plane will look a bit like Pete Brautigam?s, and he has a very 
nice looking tail wheel spring set up. Most of the KR?s I see pictures of do 
not have tail wheel connect springs, which seems quite unusual.   Clearly it 
must be ok.  Is it? 

Cheers,
Owen Hughes

KR> Tail wheel Block

[Phillip Matheson]

I was wondering if anyone has had problems with the tail wheel block coming 
loose or damaged on landing.
I was thinking of beefing mine up before I install the tail wheel.

If so what mods did you do?

Phil Matheson

-___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options 

KR> Tail wheel Block

[bjoenunley]

I am working on my tail wheel taday and also wondering what I can do to 
reinforce the attach points.?
I have installed additional 1/2 by 1/2 spruce suports in the tail section 
secured by T-88. ?
I am using spring steel. The attaching bolt holes are spaced approximately 8 
inches apart to disperse the landing loads.
Side note; Spring steel takes some effort to shape.
Joe Nunley?CW2 US Army Retired?JROTC Instructor?Baker Florida?

 Original message 
From: Phillip Matheson via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 07/25/2015  11:01 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: KRnet  
Cc: Phillip Matheson  
Subject: KR> Tail wheel Block 

I was wondering if anyone has had problems with the tail wheel block coming 
loose or damaged on landing.
I was thinking of beefing mine up before I install the tail wheel.

If so what mods did you do?

Phil Matheson

-
??

KR> Tail wheel spring

[Phillip Matheson]

Could someone let me know the dimensions for the KR supply ( Steve) tail 
wheel spring.

I have the Matco tail wheel that needs a 1 1/2 inch spring, what is the 
length you are using?

Phil matheson




___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options 

KR> Tail wheel spring

[Joe. E. Wallace]

Good to have you back Steve !  jw

Joe. E. Wallace
jwallacep51 at gmail.com



> On Jan 28, 2015, at 07:55, Steve G. via KRnet  wrote:
> 
> The only spring we have at the moment is old stock of the original plans 
> spring. It is marginal at best unless used on very light KR's. 
> 
> I haven't been in the office or at the hangar since I turned the website back 
> on. Thought I was going to have a few weeks to catch up but had construction 
> projects that needed to begin before planned. 
> 
> Steve Glover

KR> Tail wheel spring

[Flesner]

>Could someone let me know the dimensions for the KR supply ( 
> Steve) tail wheel spring.
>I have the Matco tail wheel that needs a 1 1/2 inch spring, what is 
>the length you are using?
>Phil matheson


I don't have the dimensions but here is what I'm using.  Works 
great.  Have since added a pneumatic tire.  Looks like it needs a cleaning.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8714.JPG

Larry Flesner 

KR> Tail wheel spring

[Mark Langford]

Phil Matheson wrote:

>I have the Matco tail wheel that needs a 1 1/2 inch spring, what is the
length you are using?

I've seen tail springs that were 4" long, and some that were probably 18"
long.  Apparently they both work.  Somewhere around 14"-16" seems to work
well, at least on my plane.  Length is a factor in determining the thickness
as well.  Most of us try a quarter inch thick, and if that' not enough, add
a reinforcing layer of 1/8" 4130  or something...a "built up" spring. 

 If width is your concern, as with the Aviation Products tail wheel, it's
easily ground down on the width where it interfaces with the tail spring
(see http://www.n56ml.com/kgear.html for a photo of that).  

Does nvAero even sell a tail spring?

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML at N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com 

KR> Tail wheel spring

[Steve G.]

The only spring we have at the moment is old stock of the original plans 
spring. It is marginal at best unless used on very light KR's. 

I haven't been in the office or at the hangar since I turned the website back 
on. Thought I was going to have a few weeks to catch up but had construction 
projects that needed to begin before planned. 

Steve Glover

Sent from my iPhone 6

> On Jan 28, 2015, at 05:02, Mark Langford via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> Phil Matheson wrote:
> 
>> I have the Matco tail wheel that needs a 1 1/2 inch spring, what is the
> length you are using?
> 
> I've seen tail springs that were 4" long, and some that were probably 18"
> long.  Apparently they both work.  Somewhere around 14"-16" seems to work
> well, at least on my plane.  Length is a factor in determining the thickness
> as well.  Most of us try a quarter inch thick, and if that' not enough, add
> a reinforcing layer of 1/8" 4130  or something...a "built up" spring. 
> 
> If width is your concern, as with the Aviation Products tail wheel, it's
> easily ground down on the width where it interfaces with the tail spring
> (see http://www.n56ml.com/kgear.html for a photo of that).  
> 
> Does nvAero even sell a tail spring?
> 
> Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
> ML at N56ML.com
> www.N56ML.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Tail Wheel spring

[Phillip Matheson]

Thanks Dan

I have been looking at you home made spring, not sure if the have the right 
materials at hand.

Thanks to the other reply as well.
Phil


-Original Message- 
From: Dan Heath via KRnet
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 10:14 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: Re: KR> Tail Wheel spring

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options 

KR> Tail Wheel spring

[Dan Heath]

You might want to check this out.  I will stop by the hangar today and get
the final thickness.



http://krbuilder.org/MakingTailWheelSpring/index.html




 TailWheelAndSpring_005.jpg





See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC







-Original Message-
>

>Can someone please let me know the thickness of the tail wheel spring, 

>I need to find a light leaf spring to cut and make one..

>Phil Matheson

+



-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 4302 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: 

KR> Tail Wheel spring

[Flesner]

>
>Can someone please let me know the thickness of the tail wheel spring, I
>need to find a light leaf spring to cut and make one..
>Phil Matheson
+

Didn't measure mine but it is in the 3/16" (4.76mm) to 1/4"(6.35mm) 
thick range by 1 3/4" wide.  I dressed down the wheel end by 1/8" on 
each side to fit the tail wheel assembly and then cold bent the 
spring to desired shape.  My spring came from an 80 year old 
automobile but I've heard the springs from a golf cart might work 
well.   Mine seems to have just the right amount of flex without 
being too "springy".   Speaking of tail wheels,  I really LOVE my 
Matco pneumatic tail wheel.  I have it mounted on slightly modified, 
lightest weight, Aviation Products tail wheel assembly.  No more 
RUMBLE, RUMBLE, RUMBLE..

Photo 
at  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8714.JPG  is 
with the old solid tire.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Tail Wheel spring

[brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com]

The plans version is 1/8", or 3.175mm for you Aussie types.  As you are
probably aware, the plans version does not stick very far aft and it is
fairly wide and it is a lot more likely to bend if you extend it.  I
extended mine some and used two pieces of 1/8" that I think were only
like an inch and a half wide to fit in a Matco tailwheel.  Mine were
spring steel and were heat treated and still bent. 


 Original Message 
Subject: KR> Tail Wheel spring
From: Phillip Matheson via KRnet 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Wed, November 19, 2014 8:40 pm
To: "KRnet" 

Can someone please let me know the thickness of the tail wheel spring, I

need to find a light leaf spring to cut and make one..

Phil Matheson

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to
change 
options 


___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to
change options

KR> Tail Wheel spring

[Phillip Matheson]

Can someone please let me know the thickness of the tail wheel spring, I 
need to find a light leaf spring to cut and make one..

Phil Matheson

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options 

KR> Tail wheel assy.

[Jeff Scott]

If interested, I have a one or more of these tailwheels sitting in my hangar 
I'd like to sell, in both 4" and 6" variants. ?I don't recall how many right 
now, but I'm thinking one of each. ?I'll have to go look in my bucket full of 
tailwheels to make sure of what I have.

I do make a slight modification to these tailwheels with the addition of a 
bronze thrust bushing so the top nut on the tailwheel can then be used to 
adjust the preload to dampen out any tendency to shimmy.

Additionally, I have a Scott 2000, Maule SFSA, Maule SFS-P8A, and most of a 
Scott 3200 for a Cessna round spring, all in need of overhaul, parts, or 
maintenance if someone is in need.

Please don't reply to the forum. ?Email me privately at .

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM


> - Original Message -
> From: Mark Langford
> Sent: 04/08/14 10:44 AM
> To: 'KRnet'
> Subject: Re: KR> Tail wheel assy.
> 
> Doran wrote:
> 
> >Wondering if anybody could send me some pictures of their tail wheel
> assembly?
> ?I would like to change mine over to a locking type.<
> 
> The "homebuilder's special" from Aviation Products is the ticket, but buy it
> direct from Aviations Products rather than AS or Wicks...it's cheaper, or
> at least it was last time I checked. And that certainly applies to
> replacement wheels, that is if you want grease in them! See
> http://www.n56ml.com/kgear.html for more on that...
> 
> Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
> ML at N56ML.com
> www.N56ML.com 

KR> Tail wheel assy.

[Mark Langford]

Doran wrote:

>Wondering if anybody could send me some pictures of their tail wheel
assembly?
   I would like to change mine over to a locking type.<

The "homebuilder's special" from Aviation Products is the ticket, but buy it
direct from Aviations Products rather than AS or Wicks...it's cheaper, or
at least it was last time I checked.  And that certainly applies to
replacement wheels, that is if you want grease in them!See
http://www.n56ml.com/kgear.html for more on that...

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML at N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com  

KR> Tail wheel assy.

[Doran Jaffas]

Wondering if anybody could send me some pictures of their tail wheel
assembly?
   I would like to change mine over to a locking type.
Thx
 Doran

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Jeff Scott]

I wouldn't call it wasted effort. ?FWIW, I agree that one should use the sealed 
bearings. ?The point I was trying to make was that your web page read like you 
seemed to think Aircraft Spruce was doing something with malicious intent. ?I 
don't believe that to be the case. ?But your point that if one buys the 
replacement wheel from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks, you also need to buy the 
better bearing is spot on.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM

> - Original Message -
> From: Mark Langford
> Sent: 08/27/13 05:41 AM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: Re: KR> Tail wheel assembly
> 
> Last night I wrote:
> 
> > I just checked both Spruce and Wicks websites, but could no longer find a 
> > distinction between the bearing without grease and the "heavy duty" 
> > bearing that actually has grease...
> 
> This morning I checked the 2012-2013 hard-copy version of the AS catalog, 
> and on page 276, under the heading of "Replacement Wheels for Homebuilder's 
> Special Tailwheels", they list both 4" and 6" "replacement wheels with tires 
> and bearings. These look like the dry-bearing wheels I received back in 
> 2009 and 2010 from AS Underneath these tailwheels is the heading 
> "Longlife Sealed Ball Bearings", which are now up to $9.75, with the 
> description "These high quality bearings are superior to standard bearings 
> furnished with homebuilder tailwheels", which says something about the 
> replacement tailwheels they sell. You be the judge.
> 
> Given that I can't prove something said three years ago on the phone, I've 
> removed the sentence "I also learned that Aircraft Spruce orders the 
> assembly from Aviation Products MINUS the wheel for some reason!", and added 
> "as their replacement" to the sentence "Although I didn't hear it from 
> Aviation Products, one must assume that AS substitutes the less expensive 
> R caster with the ungreased and unprotected bearings as their replacement 
> wheels and saves a few bucks."
> 
> Other than those two edits to clarify things, I stand behind every word in 
> that web page, and still think it's important that folks use a 
> greased-bearing replacement wheel in their Aircraft Products tailwheels, 
> like they came from the manufacturer. I spent the time to do the research 
> and to create that webpage to shed some light on a situation that needs to 
> be exposed and corrected, not just to vent. Hopefully I didn't waste my 
> time with that effort...
> 
> Mark Langford
> ML at N56ML.com
> website at http://www.N56ML.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Tail Wheel

[Craig Williams]

5,6,7,8" wheels for Scooters, power chairs, wheel chairs etc.? 
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/caster-wheel-power-chair.html





 From: Mark Jones 
To: KR Mail  
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 10:01 AM
Subject: KR> Tail Wheel


I just did a Google search on Mountain board wheels and the possibilities for 
you tail draggers are endless in pneumatic. Beautiful anodized aluminum wheels 
as well. Maybe this will help...

Mountain board wheel images:
http://www.google.com/search?q=mountain+board+wheels=isch=u=univ=X=468cUpZMx9rIAaSKgegH=2=0CF0QsAQ=1280=643


Mountain board wheels:
http://shop.mbs.com/accessories-10/mountainboard-wheels.html

Tires, tubes, bearings, wheels:
http://shop.mbs.com/accessories-10.html




Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com
___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Dene]

That would be the one Marc

Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
tel:27419560048
cell: 27845805003
Port Elizabeth
South Africa


-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Marc Baca
Sent: 27 August, 2013 9:15 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Tail wheel assembly

I think this might be the wheel that Dene is talking about.

http://www.matcomfg.com/TAILWHEEL6PNEUMATIC-idv-3373-13.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
options

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Dene]

Larry wrote:
" I've searched the world over and have yet to find a pneumatic 
wheel/tire in a 4 or even 6 inch that will work on our 
application.  I'd love to have one."

Larry, Matco make a beautiful CNC machined ally "mag" rim with a pneumatic
tyre on it. I fitted one to a whisper motor glider in December last year. If
I remember correctly it was 6". I am sure the wheel can be purchased
separate from the fork.

Regards
Dene Collett
Avlec Projects cc
tel:27419560048
cell: 27845805003
Port Elizabeth
South Africa

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Alan Middleton]

Hi Larry
Can you send me a photo of the attachments of the cables in the fuselage. Can 
you include the attachments And the exit points through the fuselage thank you 
so much alan

Alan Middleton 0407356948

On 27/08/2013, at 7:47 AM, Larry Flesner  wrote:

> At 05:04 AM 8/26/2013, you wrote:
>> What did you use and where can I find a tail wheel assembly + spring for my 
>> KR2ss 0200.
> 
> 
> It's hard to beat the assembly that Mark Langford and I ,and others,  have 
> used.  Mark had over 1000 hours on his and I have 500 on mine with not a 
> single shimmy or other problems.  Any lightweight spring , auto , golf cart, 
> etc. , would work.  Mark and I both use the lightweight, single fork, 4" 
> wheel unit.  I don't see this unit listed on either AS or Wick's site.
> 
> Aviation Products, Inc
> 114 Bryant St.
> Ojai, CA 93023
> ph/fax (805) 646-6042
> 
> http://www.n56ml.com/gear/100320027m.jpg
> 
> scroll down and read Mark's write up on the wheels from AS
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Mark Langford]

Last night I wrote:

> I just checked both Spruce and Wicks websites, but could no longer find a 
> distinction between the bearing without grease and the "heavy duty" 
> bearing that actually has grease...

This morning I checked the 2012-2013 hard-copy version of the AS catalog, 
and on page 276, under the heading of "Replacement Wheels for Homebuilder's 
Special Tailwheels", they list both 4" and 6" "replacement wheels with tires 
and bearings.  These look like the dry-bearing wheels I received back in 
2009 and 2010 from AS  Underneath these tailwheels is the heading 
"Longlife Sealed Ball Bearings", which are now up to $9.75, with the 
description "These high quality bearings are superior to standard bearings 
furnished with homebuilder tailwheels", which says something about the 
replacement tailwheels they sell.  You be the judge.

Given that I can't prove something said three years ago on the phone, I've 
removed the sentence "I also learned that Aircraft Spruce orders the 
assembly from Aviation Products MINUS the wheel for some reason!", and added 
"as their replacement" to the sentence "Although I didn't hear it from 
Aviation Products, one must assume that AS substitutes the less expensive 
R caster with the ungreased and unprotected bearings as their replacement 
wheels and saves a few bucks."

Other than those two edits to clarify things, I stand behind every word in 
that web page, and still think it's important that folks use a 
greased-bearing replacement wheel in their Aircraft Products tailwheels, 
like they came from the manufacturer.  I spent the time to do the research 
and to create that webpage to shed some light on a situation that needs to 
be exposed and corrected, not just to vent.  Hopefully I didn't waste my 
time with that effort...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[John Martindale]

Hi Ya Phil

Try the end of a Holden spring and a castering supermarket wheel.just
joking

.. but I did use the end of a small lower car spring leaf..the RR
supplied  plate was totally under strength, bent upwards over a short period
and cracked around the bolt hole.

I got custom mount welded by an aviation certified welder in Ballina. Very
reasonable price.

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

ph:61 2 6658 4767
m:0403 432179
email:john_martindale at bigpond.com
web site: http://john-martindale-kr2.zxq.net
-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Phillip
Matheson
Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013 8:04 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Tail wheel assembly

HI guys.

What did you use and where can I find a tail wheel assembly + spring for my 
KR2ss 0200.
I will need a engine mount seen as well.

Phil Matheson
Australia

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options 


___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
options


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6607 - Release Date: 08/25/13

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Mark Langford]

Jeff Scott wrote:

>> "FWIW, Marks rant about Aircraft Spruce and tailwheel bearings on the web 
>> page you referenced  is a bit unfair and 
>> has some statements that are... mis-informed. I didn't see any reason to 
>> challenge it at the time since I figured he was blowing off steam. But 
>> I'd hate to see that referenced as fact when the statements made on that 
>> page just aren't so."

The statement Jeff is talking about is the following paragraph.
I wrote: "So I called Aviation Products and asked what kind of bearing they 
put in their tailwheels and was told "heavy duty sealed bearings, greased 
for life is the only way we sell them...why wouldn't you use the best?" I 
also learned that Aircraft Spruce orders the assembly from Aviation Products 
MINUS the wheel for some reason! Although I didn't hear it from Aviation 
Products, one must assume that AS substitutes the less expensive R 
caster with the ungreased and unprotected bearings and saves a few bucks. 
And after your ungreased bearings rapidly wear out, you'll either buy a new 
tailwheel (with no grease), or if you're really enterprising, you'll put new 
bearings in it."

Back when I wrote this, I got my information from the lady that owns 
Aviation Products.  To make sure I wasn't crazy, I just spoke to her a few 
minutes by phone ago to check my facts.  She verified Jeff's statement that 
she only sells the assembly to both Wicks and AS WITH sealed bearings.  I 
would have sworn that I heard something to the contrary when I spoke to her 
about 2-3 years ago, but I'll admit it is possible that it was a 
miscommunication on my part.  I'd be amazed if that were the case, but it's 
possible.

Jeff also wrote:

>"Aviation products replaces the crappy bearing with a good bearing before 
>they sell it. Aircraft Spruce and Wicks sell the good bearing separately."<

I would have to challenge this with what Karen told me a few minutes ago, as 
well as back when I wrote the rant.  Aviation Products builds or at least 
assembles those tailwheel units essentially in house (she was bending tubing 
when I called her).  She installs only wheels that  have fully sealed and 
lubricated bearings, direct from  R Industrial Wheels.  She doesn't bother 
buying them without grease, because it makes no sense at all to do so. 
Also, having driven several of the bearings out of the wheel (which resulted 
in my rant), I'm pretty sure that the bearing is either useless or 
short-lived after it's driven out, so reselling it wouldn't work.  I never 
implied that anybody was removing sealed/greased bearings and replacing them 
with ungreased bearings, or the other way around...only substituting 
greaseless-bearing wheels for an application that clearly demands 
greased-bearing wheels.   Buy the correct greased-bearing wheel first and 
you're done.

One thing's for sure...selling a REPLACEMENT wheel that has no grease in it 
nor a plausible way to grease it doesn't make a bit of sense.  If anybody 
doubts this, please buy one and see for yourself.  And you are definitely 
correct Jeff, when you say "That simply doesn't make any business sense".

Jeff also wrote:

"Aircraft Spruce and Wicks sell the good bearing separately. It's actually a 
pretty common bearing that I found on the shelf at my local hardware store."

I just checked both Spruce and Wicks websites, but could no longer find a 
distinction between the bearing without grease and the "heavy duty" bearing 
that actually has grease, although the photos on the Wicks site look just 
like the ones a bought from AS that didn't have grease in them, and they 
even say in the description "tailwheels do not have grease zerks."I'm 
not sure why they'd mention that, this could mean they are greased but not 
sealed, which would likely work fine for our use.  I did call R Wheel back 
at the time of the rant to ask if they sold a version of that wheel without 
grease in it, and if so, how would one grease the bearing without damaging 
the wheel.  They do sell a dry version, and the answer was "you can't" 
lubricate it.  Like Jeff, I bought greased and sealed bearings from 
elsewhere (McMaster Carr in my case),

As a sanity check, anyone having a tailwheel (by itself) that is not yet 
installed that looks like the one at 
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/sonexwheel4.php or
http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/item/all-categories/4-tailwheel/twnp-4?=10=keyword==prod
 , 
please give it a shake and see if it rattles.  If it does, I'd be looking 
for a new tailwheel with a sealed bearing.  Please let me know if you find 
one of these, or evidence that you can or cannot find a wheel that is not 
greased available from either house.  I will amend the website based on my 
findings. My advice in the meantime would be to buy it direct from Aviation 
Products at http://www.apitailwheels.com/ to ensure it's a sealed and 
greased bearing.

I forwarded the rant to both AS and Wicks 

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Mark Jones]

>I think I read somewhere on this group, that someone was using the wheels 
>from wheel skates, (or whatever they are called). It seems that they bought 
>the skates from a thrift shop and had 8 or 10 wheels for just a few bucks.


Years ago I found a pneumatic tire which works excellent as a tail wheel. 
Pete Brautigam installed it on his KR and loves it. The best thing about it 
is that it is quiet and smooth over cracks. The tire wheel assembly is used 
on dirt downhill skateboards. The diameter is 6 inched if I remember 
correctly. I found them at a store called "Wheel and Sprocket. I never 
understood why more folks did not convert to the pneumatic wheel. Back then 
the tire and rim was about $20.


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Phillip Matheson]

HI guys.

What did you use and where can I find a tail wheel assembly + spring for my 
KR2ss 0200.
I will need a engine mount seen as well.

Phil Matheson
Australia

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options 

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Patrick Driscoll]

I think I read somewhere on this group, that someone was using the wheels 
from wheel skates, (or whatever they are called). It seems that they bought 
the skates from a thrift shop and had 8 or 10 wheels for just a few bucks. 
They had to replace them often but for the price, they thought it was worth 
the trouble.
Patrick Driscoll
Saint Paul, MN
patrick36 at usfamily.net
www.pensbypat.com
If you can read this, Thank a teacher
If you are reading this in English, thank a veteran 

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Jeff Scott]

The part number is [Part # 06-00401] at Aircraft Spruce. ?Wicks also carries 
the same unit. ?Mine is the 6" model of the same unit. ?I tried both on my KR 
and went back to the semi-pneumatic 6" version. ?The 6" tailwheel is a bit more 
drag, but much quieter when taxiing over cracks and expansion joints in the 
pavement. ?Additionally, because of the altitude where I'm based, my ground 
speeds are significantly higher during take off and landing, so I chose to stay 
with the 6" wheel. ?But as I said, there are many fine tailwheels out there and 
we all have our preferences for various reasons.

FWIW, Marks rant about Aircraft Spruce and tailwheel bearings on the web page 
you referenced ?<http://www.n56ml.com/kgear.html> is a bit unfair and has some 
statements that are... mis-informed. ?I didn't see any reason to challenge it 
at the time since I figured he was blowing off steam. ?But I'd hate to see that 
referenced as fact when the statements made on that page just aren't so. ?

When you buy the tailwheel assembly, whether from Aviation Products or through 
Aircraft Spruce or Wicks, it has the bearings that were installed by Aviation 
Products. ?When you buy a replacement wheel from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks, it 
comes with the bearing that was installed in the wheel. ?Obviously, Aircraft 
Spruce and Wicks are buying them from the same place as Aviation products. 
?Aviation products replaces the crappy bearing with a good bearing before they 
sell it. ?Aircraft Spruce and Wicks sell the good bearing separately. ?It's 
actually a pretty common bearing that I found on the shelf at my local hardware 
store. ?Even the crappy bearing will hold up for a long time if you grease it. 
?At any rate, I don't see any malicious intent on the part of Aircraft Spruce. 
?Perhaps some ignorance on the part of their parts buyers, but no malicious 
intent. ?And they certainly aren't removing bearings and replacing them with 
substandard bearings as suggested on Mark'she web page, then selling the 
originals back as an upgrade. ?That simply doesn't make any business sense 
considering how inexpensive they are. ?I've dealt with Jim Irwin and Aircraft 
Spruce for over 30 years now. ?While I sometimes see mistakes made by their 
buyers, I have never seen anything that I would consider to be malicous intent.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM


> - Original Message -
> From: Larry Flesner
> Sent: 08/26/13 03:47 PM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: Re: KR> Tail wheel assembly
> 
> At 05:04 AM 8/26/2013, you wrote:
> >What did you use and where can I find a tail wheel assembly + spring 
> >for my KR2ss 0200.
> 
> 
> It's hard to beat the assembly that Mark Langford and I ,and 
> others, have used. Mark had over 1000 hours on his and I have 500 
> on mine with not a single shimmy or other problems. Any lightweight 
> spring , auto , golf cart, etc. , would work. Mark and I both use 
> the lightweight, single fork, 4" wheel unit. I don't see this unit 
> listed on either AS or Wick's site.
> 
> Aviation Products, Inc
> 114 Bryant St.
> Ojai, CA 93023
> ph/fax (805) 646-6042
> 
> http://www.n56ml.com/gear/100320027m.jpg
> 
> scroll down and read Mark's write up on the wheels from AS
> 
> Larry Flesner

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Jeff Scott]

Phil,

I used the homebuilder spring [06-14500 ?$59.65] from Aircraft Spruce, then 
formed a second leaf to back it up. ?I used the homebuilders tailwheel as well, 
but there are a lot of tailwheel choices. ?I tried several and settled on this 
one as my favorite. [P/N 06-00403](Aircraft Spruce)

Send me an email off line if you want a copy of the Rand Robinson O-200 mount 
drawings so you can build your own.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM


> - Original Message -
> From: Phillip Matheson
> Sent: 08/26/13 04:04 AM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: KR> Tail wheel assembly
> 
> HI guys.
> 
> What did you use and where can I find a tail wheel assembly + spring for my 
> KR2ss 0200.
> I will need a engine mount seen as well.
> 
> Phil Matheson
> Australia
> 

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Virgil N.Salisbury]

 Could you use the spring off of an old office chair ? Virg


 On 8/26/2013 6:04 AM, Phillip Matheson wrote:
> HI guys.
>
> What did you use and where can I find a tail wheel assembly + spring 
> for my KR2ss 0200.
> I will need a engine mount seen as well.
>
> Phil Matheson
> Australia
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to 
> change options
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to 
> change options
>

KR> Tail wheel assembly

[Craig Williams]

Halfway down this page is what I used.

http://kr2seafury.com/9.html







 From: Phillip Matheson 
To: KRnet  
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:04 AM
Subject: KR> Tail wheel assembly


HI guys.

What did you use and where can I find a tail wheel assembly + spring for my 
KR2ss 0200.
I will need a engine mount seen as well.

Phil Matheson
Australia

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options 


___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options

KR> Tail Wheel and Spring

[Larry H.]

I think the Chevrolet Astro Van carbon/glass springs that Bob Polgreen has 
talked about would work perfectly for tail springs. Look in the archives for 
use as main landing gear struts and posts by Bob. My recollection is that they 
are readily available at your local wrecked car graveyard for cheap prices. One 
could make several tail springs with a set of these springs. Just a thought.
Larry H.

 




From: Dan Heath da...@windstream.net

Carbon, I understand, can be brittle and I need spring.  Other than that, no
reason, except that my friend let me bum all the cloth that I needed for it.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2010 - KR Gathering in Richmond, Ky - I39
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[hart...@charter.net]

Dan,
When I read your first post about the tail wheel it was quite clear to me that 
you were not blaming the tail wheel setup for the accident..and I admire 
you for not responding in anger to some of the caustic comments.  Thanks for 
getting the tail wheel discussion started.  We have not had many good building 
related discussions lately.
Also.is there any possibility that "Old Blue" could be rebuilt for static 
display?  For KR enthusiasts this is an historic airplane.
Rich Hartwig
Waunakee WI

KR> Tail Wheel and Spring

[Fred Johnson]

Dan,

Looked at your website on the tail spring construction, just curious as why
you didn't use some uni carbon in it to stiffen it up?

Looks great!

Fred Johnson
Reno, NV



Dan wrote:

I promised some better pics of the Tail Wheel from Aviation Products, and
the spring that I made to go with it.  So here they are:

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Myron (Dan) Freeman]

Hi guys and girls; 

AH HA! Now I think I understand why one or maybe more of the KR group got 

upset with my first post about the "Tail wheel/rudder interconnection". 

It seems that they might have took it that I was criticizing the KR tail
wheel/rudder design as dangerous, NOT SO! I'm sorry if I left that
impression. Many certified planes use the same set-up, so who am I to
criticize a time proven design. Perhaps [dangerous] was a poor choice of
words but I was having a tough time getting used to the plane and maybe ( I
) was dangerous with it and I was trying to find out why. I also said that I
(knew) something was wrong with the plane when maybe I should have said I
(thought) something was wrong because I didn't have that kind of trouble in
the plane I was taking tail wheel instruction in and my instructor wouldn't
ride in the KR so that kind of left me hanging on my own. I was hoping some
of you could help me out at the Gathering but of course that didn't work out


Now it seems that one or more of the KR group might have thought that I was 

blaming the tail wheel for my accident, again, NOT SO, I hadn't even touched


down yet when the accident occurred. Here's what happened. 

On approach to the MVN airport I was experiencing heavy turbulence from 

about 2500 ft. msl on down to the runway, something I was not prepared for 

because it was not mentioned in my weather briefing, if it had been I would 

have stayed home and maybe gone Friday instead. As I lined up for the runway


it felt like I was being pushed to the right side of the runway even though 

MVN reported winds of 050 degrees at 11 kts. for runway 5, so I began
drifting left to compensate and as I came over the end of the runway at 70
mph (the plane stops flying at just under 60 mph) and was about 2 or 3 feet
above of the runway the plane suddenly dropped out from under me, I guess
from a change in wind direction and I slammed down hard onto the ground and
I remember thinking "OH @%*^ there went the right landing gear". Then the
plane bounced back into the air and I tried to keep it from stalling and
suddenly I was looking straight at the ground and then nothing but concrete
as I slid across the taxiway. Then all I could think of was getting as far
away as I could in case the fuel ignited. So the accident had nothing to do
with the tail wheel at all and the KR tail wheel setup is as good as can be
had anywhere. I was just looking for a possible better way, but it appears
there is none unless you build a tri-gear. 

Now I know there are some in the KR group that have no use at all for
X-Plane and that's fine, many others do and enjoy it very much. It helps
keep their dream alive while their building. Of all of the simulators that
have come and gone, I like X-Plane the best and I've tried most of them. The
FAA even certifies an X-Plane version for student instruction. A couple of
friends of mine who are or have been commercial pilots have been checked out
in muti-million dollar commercial simulators and their comment was that they
are very, very good but not perfect and neither is X-Plane. 

Now I have read several articles on aircraft wheel alignment. Some have 

recommended slight toe-in (normal), at least one recommended slight toe-out
and gave reasons for it. I would guess it comes down to trial and error and
what works best for your plane. I set mine at zero, loaded and rolled and
hoped for the best. 

Happy New Year everybody 



Regards, 

Myron (Dan) Freeman 

Indpls, Ind. 46203-3570 

Home of the Indy 500, 

the World's most famous 

auto race. 

mfreem...@indy.rr.com 

?

KR> Tail Wheel and Spring

[Darren Crompton]

Hi Dan.

I have paid for and used Dreamweaver in the past and then came upon a very
good alternative called "NVU"  It is the software I use on my sites and find
it to be excelent.  You can download it from
http://net2.com/nvu/download.html and best of all.it's free.

Well done with the tail wheel.  I have picked up a similar tailwheel
assembly off an RV but have not yet put up the photos.  I had to weld a
bracket to turn a round tube from the assembly to a flat spring.


I had best get out and do some building.
-- 
Darren Crompton
AUSTRALIA

My building site: www.kr-2s.com
AN-BOLTS  www.an-bolts.com.au

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Randy Smith]

A simulate we can afford is really not much like flying. The simulators the 
airlines use are so real they will go from a type rating by simulator to a line 
check. The line check will be the first time in that type of plane. I know 
folks that use there desk top simulator to practice IFR and other things and I 
have had the opportunity to play with a couple of real nice ones and from my 
experience they are not the same.  I believe everyone should have a tailwheel 
endorsement. You would be surprised how it helps in all planes.

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Myron (Dan) Freeman <mfreem...@indy.rr.com> wrote:


From: Myron (Dan) Freeman <mfreem...@indy.rr.com>
Subject: RE: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 11:34 AM


Hi guys and girls;



My whole point in bringing up the subject of tail wheel/rudder and wheel
alignment was three fold. One was, was it just my lack of time and
experience in the plane (probably so) or two, was there a way to make it
easier to control, and three, to leave a more searchable title in the KR
archives for future reference.

By the way, this subject has nothing to do with the accident at all. That
was caused by gusting wind.

Also, X-Plane is not a perfect simulator, neither is a multi million dollar
airline simulator but it is fun and all that I and many others can afford. 

Now whether it can produce bad habits or not, yes it can if you let it, it's
up to you to practice good habits.

Have a great Christmas.

Regards, 

Myron (Dan) Freeman 

Indpls, Ind. 46203-3570 

Home of the Indy 500, 

the World's most famous 

auto race. 

mfreem...@indy.rr.com 

? 

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Myron (Dan) Freeman]

Hi guys and girls;



My whole point in bringing up the subject of tail wheel/rudder and wheel
alignment was three fold. One was, was it just my lack of time and
experience in the plane (probably so) or two, was there a way to make it
easier to control, and three, to leave a more searchable title in the KR
archives for future reference.

By the way, this subject has nothing to do with the accident at all. That
was caused by gusting wind.

Also, X-Plane is not a perfect simulator, neither is a multi million dollar
airline simulator but it is fun and all that I and many others can afford. 

Now whether it can produce bad habits or not, yes it can if you let it, it's
up to you to practice good habits.

Have a great Christmas.

Regards, 

Myron (Dan) Freeman 

Indpls, Ind. 46203-3570 

Home of the Indy 500, 

the World's most famous 

auto race. 

mfreem...@indy.rr.com 

? 

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Randy Smith]

I believe part of the tow-in tow-out is preference. I found on my KR with a 
copy of Dans gear in aluminum 0 worked well with me. I have a 47 and 74 
Bellanca downstairs and one of the first things I did was to align the wheels 
for 0. It made a big difference for me. 
For those thinking about tail wheels. Don't listen to anybody about how hard 
they are to fly. It is like when you learned to fly a tricycle gear. It was 
hard at first but after a few landing it becomes natural. About they only thing 
I really pay attention to when landing is witch way the wind is blowing down 
the runway. anything over 5 kts I land into the wind when I can.

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Larry Knox <la...@lebanair.com> wrote:


From: Larry Knox <la...@lebanair.com>
Subject: RE: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection
To: "'KRnet'" <kr...@mylist.net>
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 8:53 AM


Thanks, Larry this will work for me. I was going to set mine at 3/16 toe in
but will go with dead ahead. In the piper gear we try for 1/4 or better per
wheel toe in but that's piper gear. Cessna's we try for a little less but
still toe in. The 20 and 20/22 pipers are a little squirlie so we seem to
have better luck with a little more. Of course you have to do a gear spring
or bend to accomplish this as usually its caused from a ground loop or near
so and precision is a little hard to achieve. Again, thank,
la...@lebanair.com 

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Larry Flesner
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 6:16 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: RE: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

At 09:12 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>The DC3 and B17 suspensions work directly for and aft and up and down,
>therefore their toe in does not change with suspension movement.
>Barry Kruyssen
+++

That is true and I was using that to make a point.  The Diehl gear, 
in my opinion, has very little fore / aft movement, or at least not 
enough to be a factor.  I think that Mark Langford's and my slightly 
longer than standard, slightly reinforced, Diehl gear with over 1000 
hours of combined flight time would indicate that zero toe-in / 
toe-out works well.

While I don't question your statement "(Just apply your brakes and 
apply power and see how much they flex, mine move back about 6mm)." , 
that is not a condition your gear sees on most hard surface takeoffs 
and landings.  Rough sod could cause fore and aft movement but the 
effect on directional control has less effect with less tire to 
surface friction.  Any roughness causing the gear to flex aft will 
probably  call for immediate and aggressive rudder input to maintain 
directional control anyway, independent of gear alignment.

I think this subject is being over analyzed.  Go with what has been 
flight proven and move along.  Zero toe-in / toe-out on the Diehl 
gear works well and, if I were doing it again, is the setup I would use.

Larry Flesner


___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html


___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Larry Knox]

The guy that wrote the insert about his tail wheel problems probably ought
to do just that. He may have better luck figuring it out. la...@lebanair.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 6:48 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

Larry wrote:

>Builders can save themselves a lot of time by not trying to re-invent 
>the wheel (no pun intended) and copy one of the many proven designs 
l>ike mine, Langford's, Dan Heath's, or others.  
>As always, your results may vary.

>Larry Flesner

And of course you could also copy Horton or Jones' set up where the tail
wheel was actually installed on the opposite send of the airframe.
Sorry - couldn't resist- Merry Christmas All
Joe Horton
___


Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=9Q_vcHmEYKip4MvpFQM7CQAAJ1A9mk
8a0luj1TJO2sh3zRLgAAYAAADNAAAEUgA=
___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Larry Knox]

Thanks, Larry this will work for me. I was going to set mine at 3/16 toe in
but will go with dead ahead. In the piper gear we try for 1/4 or better per
wheel toe in but that's piper gear. Cessna's we try for a little less but
still toe in. The 20 and 20/22 pipers are a little squirlie so we seem to
have better luck with a little more. Of course you have to do a gear spring
or bend to accomplish this as usually its caused from a ground loop or near
so and precision is a little hard to achieve. Again, thank,
la...@lebanair.com 

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Larry Flesner
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 6:16 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: RE: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

At 09:12 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>The DC3 and B17 suspensions work directly for and aft and up and down,
>therefore their toe in does not change with suspension movement.
>Barry Kruyssen
+++

That is true and I was using that to make a point.  The Diehl gear, 
in my opinion, has very little fore / aft movement, or at least not 
enough to be a factor.  I think that Mark Langford's and my slightly 
longer than standard, slightly reinforced, Diehl gear with over 1000 
hours of combined flight time would indicate that zero toe-in / 
toe-out works well.

While I don't question your statement "(Just apply your brakes and 
apply power and see how much they flex, mine move back about 6mm)." , 
that is not a condition your gear sees on most hard surface takeoffs 
and landings.  Rough sod could cause fore and aft movement but the 
effect on directional control has less effect with less tire to 
surface friction.  Any roughness causing the gear to flex aft will 
probably  call for immediate and aggressive rudder input to maintain 
directional control anyway, independent of gear alignment.

I think this subject is being over analyzed.  Go with what has been 
flight proven and move along.  Zero toe-in / toe-out on the Diehl 
gear works well and, if I were doing it again, is the setup I would use.

Larry Flesner


___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com]

Larry wrote:

>Builders can save themselves a lot of time by not trying to re-invent 
>the wheel (no pun intended) and copy one of the many proven designs 
l>ike mine, Langford's, Dan Heath's, or others.  
>As always, your results may vary.

>Larry Flesner

And of course you could also copy Horton or Jones' set up where the tail wheel 
was actually installed on the opposite send of the airframe.
Sorry - couldn't resist- Merry Christmas All
Joe Horton
___


Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=9Q_vcHmEYKip4MvpFQM7CQAAJ1A9mk8a0luj1TJO2sh3zRLgAAYAAADNAAAEUgA=

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Larry Flesner]

At 09:12 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>The DC3 and B17 suspensions work directly for and aft and up and down,
>therefore their toe in does not change with suspension movement.
>Barry Kruyssen
+++

That is true and I was using that to make a point.  The Diehl gear, 
in my opinion, has very little fore / aft movement, or at least not 
enough to be a factor.  I think that Mark Langford's and my slightly 
longer than standard, slightly reinforced, Diehl gear with over 1000 
hours of combined flight time would indicate that zero toe-in / 
toe-out works well.

While I don't question your statement "(Just apply your brakes and 
apply power and see how much they flex, mine move back about 6mm)." , 
that is not a condition your gear sees on most hard surface takeoffs 
and landings.  Rough sod could cause fore and aft movement but the 
effect on directional control has less effect with less tire to 
surface friction.  Any roughness causing the gear to flex aft will 
probably  call for immediate and aggressive rudder input to maintain 
directional control anyway, independent of gear alignment.

I think this subject is being over analyzed.  Go with what has been 
flight proven and move along.  Zero toe-in / toe-out on the Diehl 
gear works well and, if I were doing it again, is the setup I would use.

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail wheel/rudder / crosswinds

[Larry Flesner]

At 03:16 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote:
>The conclusion was that when taking off or landing, until the tail 
>wheel leaves the ground, it is steering the plane down the runway 
>for the most part and if you have a crosswind you need to use rudder 
>to counteract the crosswind, but when you do, the tail wheel also 
>turns and steers you sideways which can result in a dangerous condition.
Myron (Dan) Freeman
+++

Dan,

There was a statement in your first post that I intended to reply to 
directly but failed.  Your statement above is incorrect.  If you have 
a steerable tail wheel and it is firmly on the ground during takeoff 
/ landing, it is the controlling factor.  You do not need rudder 
deflection in addition to correct for a crosswind.  If the crosswind 
is strong enough, you may need to hold some constant rudder pressure 
to keep the tail wheel from pivoting.  Once the tail wheel lifts, 
control is transferred to the rudder and you will need rudder 
deflection and the tail wheel will track rudder deflection 
angles.  But at that point the wheel is off the ground and 
contributes nothing to directional control.

My KR, and I'm guessing most KR's with a good tail wheel setup, 
handle cross winds very well.  The only thing to be cautious about is 
at the transition point when lifting the tail on takeoff and not over 
controlling when you change from peddle pressure to some amount of 
peddle movement.  It's not at all difficult and becomes second nature 
after a few flights.  If you just look ahead and keep the nose 
pointed in the direction of travel, it's a cake walk. :-)  In 
moderate to heavy cross winds, I hold the tail firmly on the ground a 
bit longer as it is the more positive control at lower speeds.  With 
an 0-200, you will need to hold a bit of right rudder, starting on 
the takeoff roll and during climb.

With proper gear setup, a tail dragger KR is no more difficult to fly 
than tri-gear, when flown correctly, and the control inputs for both 
are 95 percent the same. The only differences are in pitch before 
liftoff and after touchdown.

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Dan Heath]

Sure, http://krbuilder.org/MakingTailWheelSpring/index.html

Actually, that is on the first spring which was not stiff enough.  I'll get 
another pic today, and also get one showing the model number.  It is under 
"Tailwheel Spring" on the dropdown menu.


See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2010 - KR Gathering in Richmond, Ky - I39
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying has 
begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of 
Myron (Dan) Freeman
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:36 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

Do you have any pictures on your web site or a link to the Aviation Products
web site? I did a search but didn't find it.

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[John Martindale]

It is also very difficult to measure because it varies with weight and tail
attitude. Rolling the wheels along forwards on concrete with toe in leads to
the legs being pulled in which also alters it. It really needs to be done
consistently on a flat plate on ball bearings to remove all friction between
tyre and concrete.


John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
AUSTRALIA

ph: 61 2 6658 4767 (H)
mob: 0403 432179
email: john_martind...@bigpond.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Barry Kruyssen
Sent: Wednesday, 23 December 2009 2:13 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: RE: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

Zero toe in and zero camber are the what we are aiming for.

But our toe in changes with the forward movement because of our suspension
design. 

snip

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Larry Knox]

I think they only have a Ph/Fax number 805-646-6042 la...@lebanair.com 

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of 
Myron (Dan) Freeman
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 2:36 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[quote] Of course, I like the breakaway that I have now, from Aviation
Products, much better than any other that I have ever had. Dan Heath



Hi Dan;



Do you have any pictures on your web site or a link to the Aviation Products
web site? I did a search but didn't find it.



Regards, 

Myron (Dan) Freeman 

Indpls, Ind. 46203-3570 

Home of the Indy 500, 

the World's most famous 

auto race. 

mfreem...@indy.rr.com 

? 

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Larry Knox]

Maybe not an expert but expert info. 1/4 in per wheel is probably minimum
depending on the length and spring of you gear. Works for us on the hornet,
longer gear we use a little more, I'm sure you will get the real low down
from a real professional shortly it seems this net has a very valuable asset
in it field of professionals. la...@lebanair.com 

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+larry=lebanair@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+larry=lebanair@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Barry
Kruyssen
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 2:14 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: RE: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

Hi Dan

With regards to your wheel alignment.

Never, ever should you have toe out.  TOE OUT IS BAD.
Let me explain (from what I know), a small amount of toe in is required as
when the vehicle is moving forward, any movement (give, spring) in the
suspension (and steering on cars) will result in the wheels pivoting
backwards (every so slightly) and thus the wheels will end up parallel which
is where we want them. 

Now with toe out you will find that the vehicle will veer (dive) left or
right and when you correct it, it will over correct.  In cars (where I have
most of my limited experience in wheel aligning) toe out makes it hard to
drive a car straight on very smooth flat road, the car keeps wanting to
wander.

Having a toe in of zero will most likely result in toe out when the vehicle
is moving forwards.

Too much toe in will scrub the tyres causing unnecessary wear.

For more detail see may email in the archive
http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp dated 13 Feb 2008 and from
k...@bigpond.com.

My one cents worth (down from 2 cents due to the recession).
As per normal, your results may differ and I'm no expert.

Regards

Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com 
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2
RAA registered 19-3873
Australia


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Myron (Dan) Freeman
Sent: Wednesday, 23 December 2009 7:17 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection



I encountered problems during takeoff and landing with the plane wanting to
drift left even with no crosswind and after checking the wheel alignment I
discovered that the wheels were misaligned to the left by several inches
(measured at a 10 foot distance) and were toed-in, this I am told is not
good, if anything they should be toed-out slightly.

Anyway, after correcting the wheel alignment the plane taxied straight and
true but after several harrowing takeoffs and landings in mild crosswind
conditions I knew that something else was wrong with it.





___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Larry Knox]

Did I miss something. This seems like a lot of commotion about a tail wheel 
when Aviation Products Inc. 114 Bryant St. Ojai, CA 93023  Ph 805-646-6042 
makes a wonderful 4 or 6 in single or double fork full steerable, castering 
tail wheel assembly. They have medium hard solid rubber tires that sound and 
feel like a tube tire when taxiing or on the runway and have an amazing 
lifespan. They work better than any certified Mall tail wheel and as well as 
the Scott on my Stinson's and our Cessna's. You just can't go wrong.  $235 and 
$255 complete without the springs and chains. Works of the rudder horn and with 
the 6 in tire on N68KR she looks like a single arm Mall tail wheel with a bush 
wheel tire. la...@lebanair.com  Tell them we had you call. 

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of 
Myron (Dan) Freeman
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:17 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

Hi guys and girls;

Before the unfortunate accident with Ol' Blue I made the comment that every
time I thought that I had everything fixed I always seemed to find something
else to fix or change on the plane.

One of the things that I hadn't got around to was the tail wheel/rudder
interconnection. I knew It wasn't right but I wasn't sure how to fix it.

I did a search on the KR net and found 500 or more references to tail wheel,
most of which didn't concern my question but with so many, I could have
missed it.

Anyway, before I purchased Ol' Blue I did a walk around and discovered that
the rudder seemed to be disconnected from the tail wheel and the rudder
peddles as well. I also noticed that when sitting in the pilot seat and
working the rudder peddles that the rudder did not move but the tail wheel
did, which helped explain why the previous owner used the brakes to keep the
plane straight during takeoff and landing, something that my instructor told
me never to do, your instructor may differ. 

So I knew something was not right and that I would have to do something
about it after the purchase. 

Well it was a simple fix, the tail wheel springs were drawn too tight and
the rudder cables were limp so I added extensions and that took care of that
 The rudder and tail wheel worked together in unison.

I encountered problems during takeoff and landing with the plane wanting to
drift left even with no crosswind and after checking the wheel alignment I
discovered that the wheels were misaligned to the left by several inches
(measured at a 10 foot distance) and were toed-in, this I am told is not
good, if anything they should be toed-out slightly.

Anyway, after correcting the wheel alignment the plane taxied straight and
true but after several harrowing takeoffs and landings in mild crosswind
conditions I knew that something else was wrong with it.

I have had a lot of time to think through the problem since the accident and
I noted that I had the same problem with the real plane as I did with my
X-Plane model. The conclusion was that when taking off or landing, until the
tail wheel leaves the ground, it is steering the plane down the runway for
the most part and if you have a crosswind you need to use rudder to
counteract the crosswind, but when you do, the tail wheel also turns and
steers you sideways which can result in a dangerous condition. So what to do
about it?

X-Plane continues to evolve and new features are added all the time and
recently a fully controllable tail wheel has been added, that is you can set
it up to behave anyway you want it to from full castering to locked straight
for takeoff or anything in between. So I said let the experimenting begin
and see what works best especially in a crosswind. Using X-plane is much
safer and quicker than using a test plane like Ol' Blue.

Now I already know how a tail dragger reacts when the tail wheel and rudder
are linked together with no slack, I considered it dangerous in a crosswind
on pavement, grass is more forgiving.

I've tried a full castoring tail wheel in X-Plane and for me I thought it
was dangerous also.

A tail wheel that is fixed straight ahead is too hard to maneuver on
taxiways so that just leaves a castoring/lockable tail wheel or a
steerable/lockable tail wheel I believe, unless I've forgotten something.

So I decided to use X-Plane to see which method worked the best and safest.

With X-Plane I can set the tail wheel to lock straight ahead by pulling any
up elevator input during takeoff or landing. In the real plane you would
have to lock it manually with a pull cable. But having flown my KR-2 model
in X-plane for several hundred hours now, I find it much easier to land and
takeoff in crosswinds with a locked tail wheel when on pavement, grass as I
said is more forgiving even in X-Plane.

I don't know if there is anyone who is using a castering/locking tail wheel
on a KR but if there is I would like very much to hear their real world
input on this subject as w

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Barry Kruyssen]

Zero toe in and zero camber are the what we are aiming for.

But our toe in changes with the forward movement because of our suspension
design. Our legs are springs which stick out sidewards from and down and
therefore MUST flex in ALL directions, though for and aft should be very
minimal because of its shape. (Just apply your brakes and apply power and
see how much they flex, mine move back about 6mm).

The DC3 and B17 suspensions work directly for and aft and up and down,
therefore their toe in does not change with suspension movement.  Their
suspension is nothing like the average KR2 (apples and oranges :-). 

Again my one cents worth.

Merry Christmas All


Regards

Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com 
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2 
RAA registered 19-3873
Australia




-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Larry Flesner
Sent: Wednesday, 23 December 2009 10:53 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: RE: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection


>  TOE OUT IS BAD. Hi Barry; I come from an automotive background and 
> I felt the same way until I read an article that claimed that 
> toe-out was better, go figure, and now I cannot remember were I 
> read that but I'm still looking  mfreeman


++

Assuming no fore and aft flex in the gear, I want my wheels trying to 
roll in the same direction as the airplane is moving.  Anyone know 
what toe-in / toe-out the gear on a DC3 or B17 are set to.  I'm 
guessing it's zero toe-in / toe-out. :-)  How many years has the DC 3 
been flying, 70 years or so?

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Mark Langford]

The Aviation Products tailwheel is shown at 
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/misc/05120360m.jpg.  This is not really a 
proper installation because vertical axis of rotation is too far inclined. 
It should be more like 5-15 degrees, and what I have is about 30 degrees. 
These tailwheels come in about three different angles, so my advice would be 
to fit a tailwheel spring first, make careful meauresments, and order the 
one you need.  I've been reluctant to "fix" it because that would put the 
tailwheel down further, making my landing speed even higher due to the 
reduced angle before the tailwheel touches down.  The yellow tailspring is 
not the original, but one that Larry Flesner sent me that I believe he got 
from a junk yard.  It's spring steel, and I believe it's 5/16" thick, but it 
was still too springy with my rough tailwheel first landings that I do 
occasionally while trying to get the airplane into my short runway.  The 
1/8" thick 4130 spring on top is a sort of limiting stiffener which at least 
prevents the tailwheel from hitting the rudder, which is what it did before 
it was installed.  Also note that there's a quarter inch piece of rubber 
between the top spring and the tailwheel block, placed there to reduce noise 
transmission from the tailwheel while taxiing.

Sorry I didn't bother to clean this up before I took the photo, but was 
answering the same question for somebody a few months ago and snapped this 
to send to them.  This is what my tailwheel looks like after over 2000 hard 
landings.  One other thing to notice about this is the low angle between the 
rudder and tailwheel cables, as Larry was mentioning.  I have no springs, 
just a direct connection made inside the fuselage, with turnbuckles so that 
the tailwheel can be perfectly aligned with the rudder.  There is slight 
slack on the tailwheel, and the "spring" is a miniature bungee cord pulling 
the two opposite tailwheel cables together to keep them from rattling due to 
wind forces on the cables outside.

There's more on my main gear and alignment at 
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kgear.html .  This gear setup has served me 
well, and like Larry, I can't imagine how it could handle any better.  Troy 
Petteway, who's flown a lot of KRs, declared mine to be the best ground 
handling KR he'd ever taxied.  He's also owned and flown a LOT of more 
traditional tailwheel planes, and says in general that the KR has better 
ground handling than anything out there.  If setup up properly, KR ground 
handling is nothing to fear.  I've never "flown" X-plane, but my guess would 
be it'd be a great place to pick up bad habits that have no relation to 
flying the real thing...

Mark Langford
N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
website at http://www.N56ML.com

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Lee Van Dyke]

I like this group and most of the posts on this site.

But lets call BULLSHIT BULLSHIT.

Dan did you get your tailwheel endorsement from your instructor?  From what 
I  have read on the net about your accident it had nothing to do with your 
tail wheel/ rudder control.  But a gust of wind.  If you think about it 
there were several hundred hours on that plane with no other issues.  It is 
sad that you choose to put your thoughts about the accident on this net.

IT PISSES ME OFF THAT YOU THINK THAT THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THE TAILWHEEL/ 
RUDDER WHEN YOU DID NOT HAVE MORE THAN 4 TAKE OFF AND LANDINGS IN THAT PLANE 
PRIOR TO GOING TO THE GATHING.  YOU NOW CHOOSE TO FREAK OUT ALL OTHER PILOTS 
ABOUT THE TAILWHEEL CONTROL, AND ACCORDING TO ALL THE REPORTS ABOUT THE 
ACCIDENT IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACCIDENT.   I RECALL AN E-MAIL ABOUT 
THE FIRST FLIGHT OR TWO THAT YOU HAD IN THAT PLANE, THAT ENDED UP IN A 
REPAIR.

I am not picking on Dan in this E-mail, but I was told that I needed to 
change my retracts when I purchased my plane.  I have landed on a GRASS 
strip, a GRAVEL strip and off taxied off the runway at OSHKOSH and didn't 
get stuck or have the gear colapse. If you want to fly a KR1 or a KR2 or a 
KR2S, build it, fly it and have fun.

I did get my tailwheel endorsement prior to getting in my plane.  I did not 
have any KR time prior to getting into my plane.  My first flight/landing 
ended up 180 degrees to take off and going under telephone/cable wires.  ( I 
can give the full story at the camp fire)  but the bottom line is that it 
was not meant for this web site.

With your post, your thoughts about your flight, all that will influence 
what others will think about the plans of the airplane.  There is nothing 
wrong with the KR or the plans.  I feel your comments are unwarranted on 
this site right now.  When you have more time in a KR and have an Educated 
opinion then you should share it, and post your proven changes to the KR 
plan as well.

Lee Van Dyke
flying 'Snakebite' over 300 hrs
N420LV











> Before the unfortunate accident with Ol' Blue I made the comment that 
> every
> time I thought that I had everything fixed I always seemed to find 
> something
> else to fix or change on the plane.
>
> One of the things that I hadn't got around to was the tail wheel/rudder
> interconnection. I knew It wasn't right but I wasn't sure how to fix it.

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Larry Flesner]

>  TOE OUT IS BAD. Hi Barry; I come from an automotive background and 
> I felt the same way until I read an article that claimed that 
> toe-out was better, go figure, and now I cannot remember were I 
> read that but I'm still looking  mfreeman

++

Assuming no fore and aft flex in the gear, I want my wheels trying to 
roll in the same direction as the airplane is moving.  Anyone know 
what toe-in / toe-out the gear on a DC3 or B17 are set to.  I'm 
guessing it's zero toe-in / toe-out. :-)  How many years has the DC 3 
been flying, 70 years or so?

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Myron (Dan) Freeman]

[quote] Never, ever should you have toe out.  TOE OUT IS BAD.



Hi Barry;



I come from an automotive background and I felt the same way until I read an
article that claimed that toe-out was better, go figure, and now I cannot
remember were I read that but I'm still looking. It claimed that it would
forestall a ground loop.

If I find it I'll post it here so you can see their reasoning.

Anyway I set Ol' Blue at a slight bit of toe-in because I didn't believe the
article. 



Regards, 

Myron (Dan) Freeman 

Indpls, Ind. 46203-3570 

Home of the Indy 500, 

the World's most famous 

auto race. 

mfreem...@indy.rr.com 

? 

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Larry Flesner]

>  I don't have any
>close up photos.  In the photo at
>http://mysite.verizon.net/flesner/lf103.jpg you can see it is a very
>standard installation.
>Larry Flesner
>+++


I forgot to mention the one thing I did differently then most 
builders do.  I attached the tail wheel cable to the rudder cable 
inside the fuselage and they exit the fuselage through different fair 
leads.  I did this so the "pull angle" of the tail wheel cable is in 
line with the rudder cable and does not pull the rudder cable at an 
angle when rudder pressure is applied.  Most set ups have the cables 
connected outside the fuselage and, with the tail wheel on the ground 
and full rudder peddle deflection, you could be stressing your rudder 
stop if it is located at the rudder and not on the peddles 
themselves.  Any side loads on my tail wheel, when not running in 
line with the aircraft, are transferred in a straight line to my 
peddles and not pulling the rudder cable at an angle causing 
additional rudder deflection.  Clear as mud, right??

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Larry Flesner]

I don't think Aviation Products has a web site.  At least I couldn't 
find it.  There info is

Aviation Products Inc. (114 Bryant St. Ojai, CA 93023)  805-646-6042.

They have several models available.  You will want the lightest model 
which is a 4 inch wheel on a single fork.  You will have to determine 
if you want a unit to fit a flat tail spring or a rod and what the 
mount angle will be.  The unit I have is steerable through 30 degrees 
and then goes full swivel.  I personally think it is the best unit 
available on the market for the KR.  I use springs on my tail wheel 
hookup but I think Langford goes with cables only.  It will work 
either way.  I recall seeing photos of their available models with 
the spec's somewhere but I can't find them on the net.

As for toe-in, toe-out,  I don't think the Diehl gear has much flex 
fore and aft so I'd recommend going zero toe-in, toe-out.  Even with 
my 30 inch legs I have the wheels set at zero and it handles on the 
ground, takeoff and landing, as well as any tricycle gear.  I get 
zero uneven wear on the tires.  I think it is the ideal setup.

On the interconnect,  the rudder cables should be either spring 
loaded at the peddles or a closed loop system.  I went with the 
springs and it works well.  You will want your tail wheel cable to be 
just a wee bit slack so they allow the rudder cables to always be 
tight.  With this setup, any rudder input you need on takeoff / 
landing is applied equally to the tail wheel and the rudder.  With 
the wheel on the ground, it will be the controlling factor.  When it 
lifts off the ground, or before it settles on landing, you already 
have the correct input you need.  I can tell very little difference 
in the peddle movement needed for correction whether it is the tail 
wheel controlling or the rudder.

I'm not sure you could properly simulate in on X-Plane or other 
simulators as it will vary by the exact physical setup on each KR, 
ie. rudder size, tail wheel cable slack, fuselage length (rudder power), etc.

Builders can save themselves a lot of time by not trying to re-invent 
the wheel (no pun intended) and copy one of the many proven designs 
like mine, Langford's, Dan Heath's, or others.  I don't have any 
close up photos.  In the photo at 
http://mysite.verizon.net/flesner/lf103.jpg you can see it is a very 
standard installation.

As always, your results may vary.

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Myron (Dan) Freeman]

[quote] Of course, I like the breakaway that I have now, from Aviation
Products, much better than any other that I have ever had. Dan Heath



Hi Dan;



Do you have any pictures on your web site or a link to the Aviation Products
web site? I did a search but didn't find it.



Regards, 

Myron (Dan) Freeman 

Indpls, Ind. 46203-3570 

Home of the Indy 500, 

the World's most famous 

auto race. 

mfreem...@indy.rr.com 

? 

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Barry Kruyssen]

Hi Dan

With regards to your wheel alignment.

Never, ever should you have toe out.  TOE OUT IS BAD.
Let me explain (from what I know), a small amount of toe in is required as when 
the vehicle is moving forward, any movement (give, spring) in the suspension 
(and steering on cars) will result in the wheels pivoting backwards (every so 
slightly) and thus the wheels will end up parallel which is where we want them. 

Now with toe out you will find that the vehicle will veer (dive) left or right 
and when you correct it, it will over correct.  In cars (where I have most of 
my limited experience in wheel aligning) toe out makes it hard to drive a car 
straight on very smooth flat road, the car keeps wanting to wander.

Having a toe in of zero will most likely result in toe out when the vehicle is 
moving forwards.

Too much toe in will scrub the tyres causing unnecessary wear.

For more detail see may email in the archive 
http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp dated 13 Feb 2008 and from 
k...@bigpond.com.

My one cents worth (down from 2 cents due to the recession).
As per normal, your results may differ and I'm no expert.

Regards

Barry Kruyssen
k...@bigpond.com 
http://athertonairport.com.au/kr2
RAA registered 19-3873
Australia


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of 
Myron (Dan) Freeman
Sent: Wednesday, 23 December 2009 7:17 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection



I encountered problems during takeoff and landing with the plane wanting to
drift left even with no crosswind and after checking the wheel alignment I
discovered that the wheels were misaligned to the left by several inches
(measured at a 10 foot distance) and were toed-in, this I am told is not
good, if anything they should be toed-out slightly.

Anyway, after correcting the wheel alignment the plane taxied straight and
true but after several harrowing takeoffs and landings in mild crosswind
conditions I knew that something else was wrong with it.

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Dan Heath]

Merry Christmas to you also Dan, and that is good news on your recovery.

I have had the plans type and the breakaway tail wheel, both steerable, and 
have had no issues with either.  Of course, I like the breakaway that I have 
now, from Aviation Products, much better than any other that I have ever had.  
I think Larry and Mark L. both use this one.  When the tail wheel is on the 
ground, the plane goes where I point it, and has with all the different ones 
that I have used.  Before I had the breakaway, I used expansion springs to the 
wheel, but with the breakaway, I have it connected directly.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2010 - KR Gathering in Richmond, Ky - I39
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying has 
begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

-Original Message-


I don't know if there is anyone who is using a castering/locking tail wheel
on a KR but if there is I would like very much to hear their real world
input on this subject as well as those who use the plans style rudder/tail
wheel interconnection method. Your crosswind takeoff/landing technique would
be very informative to the rest of us.

KR> Tail wheel/rudder interconnection

[Myron (Dan) Freeman]

Hi guys and girls;

Before the unfortunate accident with Ol' Blue I made the comment that every
time I thought that I had everything fixed I always seemed to find something
else to fix or change on the plane.

One of the things that I hadn't got around to was the tail wheel/rudder
interconnection. I knew It wasn't right but I wasn't sure how to fix it.

I did a search on the KR net and found 500 or more references to tail wheel,
most of which didn't concern my question but with so many, I could have
missed it.

Anyway, before I purchased Ol' Blue I did a walk around and discovered that
the rudder seemed to be disconnected from the tail wheel and the rudder
peddles as well. I also noticed that when sitting in the pilot seat and
working the rudder peddles that the rudder did not move but the tail wheel
did, which helped explain why the previous owner used the brakes to keep the
plane straight during takeoff and landing, something that my instructor told
me never to do, your instructor may differ. 

So I knew something was not right and that I would have to do something
about it after the purchase. 

Well it was a simple fix, the tail wheel springs were drawn too tight and
the rudder cables were limp so I added extensions and that took care of that
 The rudder and tail wheel worked together in unison.

I encountered problems during takeoff and landing with the plane wanting to
drift left even with no crosswind and after checking the wheel alignment I
discovered that the wheels were misaligned to the left by several inches
(measured at a 10 foot distance) and were toed-in, this I am told is not
good, if anything they should be toed-out slightly.

Anyway, after correcting the wheel alignment the plane taxied straight and
true but after several harrowing takeoffs and landings in mild crosswind
conditions I knew that something else was wrong with it.

I have had a lot of time to think through the problem since the accident and
I noted that I had the same problem with the real plane as I did with my
X-Plane model. The conclusion was that when taking off or landing, until the
tail wheel leaves the ground, it is steering the plane down the runway for
the most part and if you have a crosswind you need to use rudder to
counteract the crosswind, but when you do, the tail wheel also turns and
steers you sideways which can result in a dangerous condition. So what to do
about it?

X-Plane continues to evolve and new features are added all the time and
recently a fully controllable tail wheel has been added, that is you can set
it up to behave anyway you want it to from full castering to locked straight
for takeoff or anything in between. So I said let the experimenting begin
and see what works best especially in a crosswind. Using X-plane is much
safer and quicker than using a test plane like Ol' Blue.

Now I already know how a tail dragger reacts when the tail wheel and rudder
are linked together with no slack, I considered it dangerous in a crosswind
on pavement, grass is more forgiving.

I've tried a full castoring tail wheel in X-Plane and for me I thought it
was dangerous also.

A tail wheel that is fixed straight ahead is too hard to maneuver on
taxiways so that just leaves a castoring/lockable tail wheel or a
steerable/lockable tail wheel I believe, unless I've forgotten something.

So I decided to use X-Plane to see which method worked the best and safest.

With X-Plane I can set the tail wheel to lock straight ahead by pulling any
up elevator input during takeoff or landing. In the real plane you would
have to lock it manually with a pull cable. But having flown my KR-2 model
in X-plane for several hundred hours now, I find it much easier to land and
takeoff in crosswinds with a locked tail wheel when on pavement, grass as I
said is more forgiving even in X-Plane.

I don't know if there is anyone who is using a castering/locking tail wheel
on a KR but if there is I would like very much to hear their real world
input on this subject as well as those who use the plans style rudder/tail
wheel interconnection method. Your crosswind takeoff/landing technique would
be very informative to the rest of us.

Here is a link to some who have had experience with it. 

http://www.mombu
com/aviation/aviators/t-advice-on-flying-pitts-with-haigh-locking-tailwheel-1
68451.html

I could only find two brands of locking tail wheels, the Raven and the Haigh
but I'm sure some enterprising individual could design and build one more
appropriate for a KR and a whole lot cheaper and share the design with the
KR group if it was worth while.

Also, I have two X-Plane, version 9.31, KR-2 models available with this new
feature for anyone who wants to try them, or I can just send them to the
several dozen individuals who are already using the older models.

Oh, and the doctor said I can drive again and start walking on my left foot,
praise the Lord.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year everybody. 

Regards, 

Myron (Dan) Freeman 

KR> Tail Wheel fun

[Dan Heath]

So, now, I guess that KR is in for a conversion.  Once the bug bites, you
might as well give in.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2009 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Ill
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

-Original Message-
You tail wheel  guys will be happy to hear I have now got 25 landing in my 
mates 1962 Pacer 150.

What a hoot, 

KR> Tail Wheel fun

[Phillip Matheson]

You tail wheel  guys will be happy to hear I have now got 25 landing in my 
mates 1962 Pacer 150.

What a hoot, and yes I did manage to get two good landing in. The last 5 in 
strong L & R cross winds.
And of course a few go arounds when she bounced.

Glad is was on the grass and not the sealed strip.

So I do admire you guys at grease them in all the time.

I will keep practicing.  At least it is only costing me the fuel.


Phil Matheson
SAAA Ch. 20  http://www.saaa20.org/
VH-PKR
Australia

EMAIL:   phillipmathe...@bigpond.com
KR Web Page: www.philskr2.50megs.com


---
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html 

KR> Tail Wheel Training

[Bavo]

Hi All,

Does anyone know of a flying school in Victoria (Australia) that does tail
wheel training?
I've tried everywhere I can think of without success.

Thanks,
John.

-- 
John Bavington
Secretary SAAA Chapter 20
P.O.Box 759 Sunbury 3429.
http://www.saaa.com/

http://au.geocities.com/johnbavington

KR> Tail Wheel Training

[Phil Matheson]

John
Come up to Sunny Tocumwal.
John William of Willams Aviation will sort you out.Call him on 
0427742523
0358742523

A bed available at my place anytime.

Phil Matheson
VH-PKR
Australia
KR Web Page
www.philskr2.50megs.com 

KR> Tail Wheel Training

[kr2]

Try RA-Aus for ultralight training, don't laugh as that is what I did.

regards
Barry Kruyssen
Cairns Australia

 Bavo  wrote: 
> Hi All,
> 
> Does anyone know of a flying school in Victoria (Australia) that does tail
> wheel training?
> I've tried everywhere I can think of without success.
> 
> Thanks,
> John.
> 
> -- 
> John Bavington
> Secretary SAAA Chapter 20
> P.O.Box 759 Sunbury 3429.
> http://www.saaa.com/
> 
> http://au.geocities.com/johnbavington
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Tail Wheel

[Charles Buddy & Cheryl Midkiff]

Dan,
I have a new one around somewhere. I'll try to locate the box I put it in 
and get back to you.

 Bud Midkiff
 Lynnwood, WA
 email: c.midk...@verizon.net
 my webpage:  http://mysite.verizon.net/res18ums/index.html



- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Heath" <da...@alltel.net>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 2:50 AM
Subject: KR> Tail Wheel


> For you guys who have converted to the tri-gear from a conventional, do 
> you
> still have the original tail wheel and does it need a new home?

KR> Tail Wheel

[Dan Heath]

For you guys who have converted to the tri-gear from a conventional, do you
still have the original tail wheel and does it need a new home?



da...@alltel.net 

Thanks,

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 

See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering

There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building
is over.

Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

KR> tail wheel

[Bill Starrs]

I would like to replace my tail wheel for my KR 1 any suggestions would be 
greatly appreciated . billsta...@peoplepc.com

KR> Tail wheel

[larry severson]

At 11:56 PM 11/27/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>It would be a shame if they were out of business.  Maybe it is not the same
>company.  The sticker on my Midget Mustang wheel says they are in Ojai, CA,
>phone 805-646-6042.  I would not be surprised if that area code has changed
>since the wheel has been there for a while.

I talked to them and received a tailspring from them in the last 3 weeks at 
the above phone number.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
lar...@socal.rr.com 

KR> Tail wheel

[raybeth...@sbcglobal.net]

Thanks, Larry
   Ray goree
- Original Message - 
From: "larry severson" <lar...@socal.rr.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:02 PM
Subject: RE: KR> Tail wheel


> At 11:56 PM 11/27/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>>It would be a shame if they were out of business.  Maybe it is not the 
>>same
>>company.  The sticker on my Midget Mustang wheel says they are in Ojai, 
>>CA,
>>phone 805-646-6042.  I would not be surprised if that area code has 
>>changed
>>since the wheel has been there for a while.
>

KR> Tail wheel

[raybeth...@sbcglobal.net]

   Brian,
In the archives, an E-mail of yours, mentioned Aviation Products for a tail 
wheel. I tried 
to contact them and was told they had gone out of business. Do you have any 
info 
on this?  Do you like your Matco unit? I am building a KR2S.
 Ray 
raybeth...@sbcglobal.net
Ray Goree
817-795-4779

KR> Tail wheel

[Brian Kraut]

It would be a shame if they were out of business.  Maybe it is not the same
company.  The sticker on my Midget Mustang wheel says they are in Ojai, CA,
phone 805-646-6042.  I would not be surprised if that area code has changed
since the wheel has been there for a while.

I checked Aircraft spruce and they are at this link.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/lg/tailwheels.html.  They are the ones
listed as the homebuilder's special wheels and all but one style is in
stock.  You can also get the ones for the 5/8" round spring and the spring
from www.mustangaeronautics.com although the flat springs would be better
suited to a KR.

I do like the Matco alot, but it is just a little heavier.  I still have the
Matco from my last KR and I will be using it on the 2S with a wheelchair
inflatable tire and a light weight aluminum wheel that I will make on my
lathe.

Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of raybeth...@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 10:44 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Tail wheel


   Brian,
In the archives, an E-mail of yours, mentioned Aviation Products for a tail
wheel. I tried
to contact them and was told they had gone out of business. Do you have any
info
on this?  Do you like your Matco unit? I am building a KR2S.
 Ray
raybeth...@sbcglobal.net
Ray Goree
817-795-4779
___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net

please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic

[Mark Jones]

A lot of you are looking for pneumatic tail wheels. Today, I found 5"
pneumatic tires and tubes. These are used on all terrain scooters. After
flying in Marti's KR2 with the solid type scooter tire and hearing how loud
the wheel is on the ground, I would switch over to this pneumatic tire
immediately. Wheel & Sprocket is the name of the store I was in that carries
these.  http://wheelandsprocket.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=12
  Unfortunately, they
are only located in Wisconsin. Maybe some of your local bike stores have
something similar.

Mark Jones (N886MJ) 
Wales, WI

KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic

[larry flesner]

At 01:23 PM 10/27/04 -0500, you wrote:
>A lot of you are looking for pneumatic tail wheels. Today, I found 5"
>pneumatic tires and tubes. These are used on all terrain scooters. 
>Mark Jones (N886MJ) 
>Wales, WI
+

Mark,

Can you get us any closer than the web addresses you listed?  I did
a search on their site and didn't find anything close.  Even a search
for "scooters" came up empty.

Thanks,

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic

[Mark Jones]

They do not list them on their web site. As soon as I seen the tire, I knew
it was what the tail draggers needed. The tire is 5" OD and I would estimate
inflated it is about 3/4" diameter. they had a price of $14.95 on the tire
and $9.95 on the tube. I forgot to check the hub price. This store is only a
couple blocks from where I work. I can get you more info if needed or pick
one up for you.

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI  USA
E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html


- Original Message - 
From: "larry flesner" <fles...@midwest.net>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 7:28 PM
Subject: KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic


> At 01:23 PM 10/27/04 -0500, you wrote:
> >A lot of you are looking for pneumatic tail wheels. Today, I found 5"
> >pneumatic tires and tubes. These are used on all terrain scooters.
> >Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> >Wales, WI
> +
>
> Mark,
>
> Can you get us any closer than the web addresses you listed?  I did
> a search on their site and didn't find anything close.  Even a search
> for "scooters" came up empty.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry Flesner
>
>
>
> ___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic

[Dan Heath]

I promise you tailwheel guys that you will never notice the noise because
you will be having so much fun. And even if you do, it is really no big
thing. I have 185 hours with one of them and it never bothered me a bit, not
even a single little bit. 

There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building
has expired.

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics 

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering

KR> Tail Wheel

[Mark Jones]

Attention Taildraggers !!! If you want a 5" pneumatic tire and tube hub, I 
will get them for you and ship them to you at exact store cost plus exact UPS 
shipping cost to you. I will require payment up front before I ship the set up 
to you and if you pay by PayPal, an additional 4% will be added to the cost to 
cover the PayPal fees. I will not make a penny doing this, as a matter of fact 
it will cost me some in gas and time ad shipping materials. But hey, I love the 
KR and the KR family and I will do anything I can to help out. If any profit 
were to be made from this in terms of a little extra with your payment, it will 
be deposited in the Prop Bank fund. 

If you want this set up, e-mail me direct at flyk...@wi.rr.com with your 
address and I will get back to you with your total cost including UPS shipping 
charges.

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI  USA 
E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at   
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html

KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic

[Doug Rupert]

Most industrial or farm supply stores carry them on larger heavy duty
casters, both 4" and 5" pneumatic swivel or straight. I opted for the 4"
myself as will be working off unimproved strip probably should have gone for
the 5 but wanted to save weight.
Doug Rupert
Simcoe Ontario.

KR> Tail Wheel

[larry flesner]

Mark,

I got "burnt" on looking for a pnuematic tire last year.  I found one on
a wheelchair and after buying the wheel and bearings (which turned 
out to be the wrong size) they couldn't get me the tire.

What's the actual diameter of the tire?
What's the axle size?
What's the width of the wheel at the axle?

I have enough worthless items laying around that I don't need to
add to the stack.

I do appreciate you willingness to help us taildraggers out on this.

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic

[larry flesner]

At 01:19 AM 10/28/04 -0400, you wrote:
>Most industrial or farm supply stores carry them on larger heavy duty
>casters, both 4" and 5" pneumatic swivel or straight.
>Doug Rupert
++

NO ONE , including farm supply stores, in this part of the state of
Illinois carries any pneumatic tires small enough for a tailwheel.

I started with a 6 inch solid and then switched to a 4 inch solid to
save a couple pounds on the tail.  I've been on grass enough to
know that it (the 4 inch) works just fine.  I'd even venture to say 
you won't be able to tell the difference between the 4 and 6.

With that said, I'd still like to have a pneumatic.

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail Wheel

[Mark Jones]

I have two guys that want these so today at lunch, I will go and purchase
one set, I will weigh them on my digital scale here at work, measure them
and take a digital photo of them. I will post the results and put a link to
the photo on the KR Net. 

Mark Jones
Mueller Sales Corporation
Ph: 262-781-5310
Fax:262-781-4130
E-mail: mjo...@muellersales.com
Web: www.muellersales.com


-Original Message-
From: larry flesner [mailto:fles...@midwest.net] 
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 8:06 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Tail Wheel



Mark,

I got "burnt" on looking for a pnuematic tire last year.  I found one on
a wheelchair and after buying the wheel and bearings (which turned 
out to be the wrong size) they couldn't get me the tire.

What's the actual diameter of the tire?
What's the axle size?
What's the width of the wheel at the axle?

I have enough worthless items laying around that I don't need to
add to the stack.

I do appreciate you willingness to help us taildraggers out on this.

Larry Flesner



___
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic

[Brian Kraut]

Could you put a picture on your web site?

Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Mark Jones
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:47 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic


They do not list them on their web site. As soon as I seen the tire, I knew
it was what the tail draggers needed. The tire is 5" OD and I would estimate
inflated it is about 3/4" diameter. they had a price of $14.95 on the tire
and $9.95 on the tube. I forgot to check the hub price. This store is only a
couple blocks from where I work. I can get you more info if needed or pick
one up for you.

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI  USA
E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html


- Original Message -
From: "larry flesner" <fles...@midwest.net>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 7:28 PM
Subject: KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic


> At 01:23 PM 10/27/04 -0500, you wrote:
> >A lot of you are looking for pneumatic tail wheels. Today, I found 5"
> >pneumatic tires and tubes. These are used on all terrain scooters.
> >Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> >Wales, WI
> +
>
> Mark,
>
> Can you get us any closer than the web addresses you listed?  I did
> a search on their site and didn't find anything close.  Even a search
> for "scooters" came up empty.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry Flesner
>
>
>
> ___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>



___
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic

[Mark Jones]

Check the link on the post I did this afternoon. Some very good photos
there.

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI  USA
E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html


- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kr...@engalt.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic


> Could you put a picture on your web site?
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Jones
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:47 PM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: Re: KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic
>
>
> They do not list them on their web site. As soon as I seen the tire, I
knew
> it was what the tail draggers needed. The tire is 5" OD and I would
estimate
> inflated it is about 3/4" diameter. they had a price of $14.95 on the tire
> and $9.95 on the tube. I forgot to check the hub price. This store is only
a
> couple blocks from where I work. I can get you more info if needed or pick
> one up for you.
>
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Wales, WI  USA
> E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
> Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at
> http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "larry flesner" <fles...@midwest.net>
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 7:28 PM
> Subject: KR> Tail Wheel - Pneumatic
>
>
> > At 01:23 PM 10/27/04 -0500, you wrote:
> > >A lot of you are looking for pneumatic tail wheels. Today, I found 5"
> > >pneumatic tires and tubes. These are used on all terrain scooters.
> > >Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> > >Wales, WI
> > +
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > Can you get us any closer than the web addresses you listed?  I did
> > a search on their site and didn't find anything close.  Even a search
> > for "scooters" came up empty.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Larry Flesner
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >
>
>
>
> ___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>
> ___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Tail Wheel

[raybeth...@sbcglobal.net]

  This is primarily for  John(?) Bouyea. The E-mail address I have for him 
did not work.
   I have been looking at the bouyea website and the pictures of your 
tailwheel assy.
It seems to raise the aft end by about 12 inches. I plan to do the same on my 
KR2S. I would 
like to know if this gives a good view over the instrument panel and are there 
any adverse 
effects on the amount of weight on the tail wheel?
Ray Goree
817-795-4779

KR> Tail Wheel

[The Weber's]

I my opinion if you raise the tail that much you will not be able to get as
much angle of attack on takeoff and will have to go faster to takeoff.
   Joe Weber
- Original Message - 
From: <raybeth...@sbcglobal.net>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:35 PM
Subject: KR> Tail Wheel


>   This is primarily for  John(?) Bouyea. The E-mail address I have for
him did not work.
>I have been looking at the bouyea website and the pictures of your
tailwheel assy.
> It seems to raise the aft end by about 12 inches. I plan to do the same on
my KR2S. I would
> like to know if this gives a good view over the instrument panel and are
there any adverse
> effects on the amount of weight on the tail wheel?
> Ray Goree
> 817-795-4779
> ___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Tail Wheel

[ifly...@aol.com]

Takeoff speeds should remain the same since you would be lifting the tail  
off the runway and then accelerating to takeoff speeds.  This of course is  for 
a normal takeoff.  For a shortfeild takeoff you would keep the tail on  the 
ground until the plane lifts off and the tailwheel could hinder short feild  
takeoff performance - not that the KR uses that much runway.  It is the  
landing 
distance that would suffer more.  I could perform better and slower  three 
point landings if my tailwheel were closer to the rudder but it is already  on 
about 6 inches away and I dont want to damage to rudder on a hard  landing.  
Bill

KR> Tail Wheel

[Orma]

For a shortfield takeoff you would keep the tail on  the
ground until the plane lifts off

Hello Net.

On a hard surface you are correct, but on sod, especially wet or some what
long, the tail wheel becomes that much more drag, and needs to be lifted off
to help acceleration.

Orma
Southfield, MI
N110LR celebrating 20 years
Flying, flying and more flying
http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/

KR> Tail Wheel

[Stan Campbell]

Wrong, for a shortfield t/o tail up for most airspeed.
--- Orma  wrote:

> For a shortfield takeoff you would keep the tail on 
> the
> ground until the plane lifts off
> 
> Hello Net.
> 
> On a hard surface you are correct, but on sod,
> especially wet or some what
> long, the tail wheel becomes that much more drag,
> and needs to be lifted off
> to help acceleration.
> 
> Orma
> Southfield, MI
> N110LR celebrating 20 years
> Flying, flying and more flying
> http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 




__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

KR> Tail Wheel

[John Bouyea]

Hi Ray.

The tail wheel setup didn't work for me, though there wasn't anything wrong
with it.  I don't think the filler block was 12" off the ground, but it was
higher than many of the tail draggers I saw at the Gathering this fall.  I
sold the tail wheel setup to Ed Blocher in Florida.  I seem to remember he
reworked it somehow.



I fly off 2000 feet of grass with children and dogs on the runway.  Over the
nose taxi visibility is as important to me as is the propeller.  It seemed
to taxi well and I lifted the tail in fast taxi a few times before I
converted to Diehl trigear.



John Bouyea

KR2 - hanging the engine accessories

KR2S - boat hanging from the rafters

john_0...@bouyea.net

www.bouyea.net



I have been looking at the Bouyea website and the pictures of your tail
wheel assy. It seems to raise the aft end by about 12 inches. I plan to do
the same on my KR2S. I would like to know if this gives a good view over the
instrument panel and are there any adverse effects on the amount of weight
on the tail wheel?

Ray Goree

817-795-4779

KR> tail wheel spring.

[Murray Gill]

Interesting "tail" Harold.  I wonder if anyone has done a tailwheel spring
in carbon fibre.  Would there be a weight saving in doing so?
Murray Gill

> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of Harold Woods
> Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2004 03:52
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Subject: KR> tail wheel spring.
>
>
> Hi Netters.
> You can take all the precautions that you want to create the perfect tail
> whel spring and find that it was in vain.Years ago a friend meticulously
> suitably hardened his to what was to be the correct hardnes. He was
> performing high speed taxi tests on a short runway with high rock
> and trees
> at one end. He cauciously accelerated  and was almost at the end
> when he got
> his tail up. I suggested that he should go back as far as
> possible  and give
> it full power, raise the tail , power back and run down the field tail up
> for a bit then slowdown.  He said "come in with me" ( I knew that
> it was not
> legal for me  to do so). He gave it full power but before he
> raised the tail
> we found ourselves at 20 feet up.The rock at the end looked like
> mountains!
> He cut the power but it kept on at 20 feet. He kept bringing the
> stick back
> to slow it down. I fealt the stall occur.The bottom dropped out, It hit
> fairly flat but hard. It bounced and eventually stopped. There was a new
> problem. The tail of the fuselage was dragging on the ground. The tail
> spring had broken into 5 pieces.To get it off the field we went to a local
> auto wrecker and had a temporary tail spring made. The man took
> an old auto
> spring,asked "where do you want the first bend". He applied the torch and
> bent it  as necessary. "What about the bolt holes?" Zap with the cutting
> torch!  We asked what about the tempering of the spring, to which
> he replied
> " It's as good now as before I heated it". He was right.We bolted it into
> place and got off the field. It worked perfectly and remained on the plane
> thereafter with out ever having any further problems.
> I sometimes wonder about all the fuss and blather that we worry about on
> some parts. Sorry about the long winded tale.
> Regards
> Harold Woods
> Orillia,ON.Can
> haroldwo...@rogers.com
>
>
>
> ___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> tail wheel spring.

[Dan Heath]

Carbon fiber is somewhat brittle, so I would not do that. I put an auto leaf
spring on the Little Beast after the original got twisted.



We have the normal spring on this KR, but it's extension is very short, so I
am anticipating no problems with the spring. I just wish I had that tail
wheel that I had on the Beast. 



I also think we worry about too many insignificant things, but who knows
what is insignificant until you ask?



See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics



Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC



da...@kr-builder.org



See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering



See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org

KR> tail wheel spring.

[Harold Woods]

Hi Netters.
You can take all the precautions that you want to create the perfect tail
whel spring and find that it was in vain.Years ago a friend meticulously
suitably hardened his to what was to be the correct hardnes. He was
performing high speed taxi tests on a short runway with high rock and trees
at one end. He cauciously accelerated  and was almost at the end when he got
his tail up. I suggested that he should go back as far as possible  and give
it full power, raise the tail , power back and run down the field tail up
for a bit then slowdown.  He said "come in with me" ( I knew that it was not
legal for me  to do so). He gave it full power but before he raised the tail
we found ourselves at 20 feet up.The rock at the end looked like mountains!
He cut the power but it kept on at 20 feet. He kept bringing the stick back
to slow it down. I fealt the stall occur.The bottom dropped out, It hit
fairly flat but hard. It bounced and eventually stopped. There was a new
problem. The tail of the fuselage was dragging on the ground. The tail
spring had broken into 5 pieces.To get it off the field we went to a local
auto wrecker and had a temporary tail spring made. The man took an old auto
spring,asked "where do you want the first bend". He applied the torch and
bent it  as necessary. "What about the bolt holes?" Zap with the cutting
torch!  We asked what about the tempering of the spring, to which he replied
" It's as good now as before I heated it". He was right.We bolted it into
place and got off the field. It worked perfectly and remained on the plane
thereafter with out ever having any further problems.
I sometimes wonder about all the fuss and blather that we worry about on
some parts. Sorry about the long winded tale.
Regards
Harold Woods
Orillia,ON.Can
haroldwo...@rogers.com

KR> Tail wheel endurance stats

[j stevens]

Hi all
 Lam in the process of enlarging my 3" tail wheel and need to know what 
the min weight and speed ratings should be for my KR2s.

thanks Joel



-- http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! --

KR>tail wheel

[larry flesner]

>From the way Larry has been progressing on his, I thought that he was an old
>time tailwheel pilot that had been stuck in a training wheel plane for a
>long time. 
>Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC
+++=

With my limited exposure to the "training wheel" I'm convinced that
I'd better consider it a permanant "training wheel".  To do otherwise
would be like turning your back on the "junkyard dog" !

Larry Flesner

KR>Tail Wheel

[Justin]

Ideally everyone would like a soft tailwheel. I found just that at the compton 
airshow/airfair yesterday. A scooter called the "Big Foot" has small air tires 
witch would work great as a tailwheel. This is not the big foot go-ped.Im 
working on gettign a phone # or website right now.
Justin
N116JW
www.geocities.com/attngrabber14/Home