[lace] Copyright
Hello All, Copyright is very important and I do not use copied patterns unless I own the original, but I think in Denmark they are going a little too far. The Danish lace association Knipling i Danmark no longer allows members to borrow from their library. Members may now only read the books and magazines when they visit the library. I was told that the Danish Culture Board does not allow the association to lend magazines and books out unless there is a written permission from the author or publisher. The lawyers they asked in this matter say their lending is letting because the association requires a membership fee for their members. The association says it is too much work to get a permission from all authors and publishers and although at least some magazine publishers allow lending, the association decided to not allow anyone to borrow anything in order not to break the law. Postage is very expensive, so I seldom borrow from the association myself, but sometimes it would be interesting to see a book before I decide if I want to buy it or not. Borrowing a book does not mean that I will make copies from it! What is your opinion on this? Are there any other lace associations that interprets the law like this? Ann-Marie Andersson Sweden - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Copyright
I was saddened to read that the Danish association are only letting personal visitors view their library. As I've said before, A lot of the research on music illegal downloads show that in the baby boomer generation do download illegally but go onto buy the music once they have heard it. I used to borrow lace books from the public library to see if I wanted to buy them. When I first started to make lace I earnt £406each mint after tax and a lace book was £20 -£25 so to buys book was a big investment for me. In real terms, many have dropped in price because our income is higher but the books are not much more than then but for many of the foreign language books I would like to look at them as the text is of limited use (I will often read how an Sutton describes doing a piece of lace even if I'm not going to make it because it may help with another piece.) Seeing vendors at lace days helps because you can look through the book but this is of no use to our lacemaking friends who are geographically isolated and can't make such events. Kind Regards Liz Baker On 27 May 2013, at 14:48, Ann-Marie Andersson a-...@telia.com wrote: snipped , but sometimes it would be interesting to see a book before I decide if I want to buy it or not. Borrowing a book does not mean that I will make copies from it! Ann-Marie Andersson Sweden - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Copyright-purpose and contradictions
I am finding this to be a very interesting conversation, since members of our little community are actually probably among the most copyright observant of people. US Copyright law is a balance that is supposed to give the creator the opportunity to profit for a limited time by having a monopoly on proceeds from the work with the understanding that eventually the work will pass into the public domain and the public will benefit from it. Thus everyone will benefit eventually from the temporary incentive given to the creator. Prior to 1978, US copyright was 25 years with an option to extend it another 25 years. Thus many authors died, forgot about it, had no heirs, etc. and the works passed into public domain rather quickly while they still had some value to the public. In 1978, the new copyright law came in with the rights to profit extended to 70 years after the author's death. The first thing created since 1978 to come into the public domain will do so in 2048, and that assumes that the author died on the very first day the law was signed. In most cases the work will not come into the public domain until 100 plus years after it was created. It is doubtful that there is much that will still be relevant or of value to the public by the time most items pass into public domain. The law was heavily influenced by Disney and a few other unusually profitable entities, certainly not with the idea of lace books in mind. One has to question whether the lines have been properly drawn. I think it is going to create a lot of tensions not fully felt yet, and actually result in a net loss of valuable intellectual material as people forget that it exists long before it goes into the public domain. Quite likely Catherine Barley's excellent book will be one example of this. The fact that Catherine Barley has had to become a broker of second hand copies of her own book is a particularly ironic development. Although the best solution to the problem would be for Catherine Barley to be able to profit from her own work, if there is absolutely no way for her to put out another edition or to publish on demand and if she only wants the effort not to go to waste and enrich second hand book dealers, could she give the copyright to Creative Commons and thus make the work available to all for free? If she still hopes that there will be a solution in the self publishing area, she might want to hesitate, but she might consider putting it in her will, or suggesting the option to her heirs. One thing that I think is happening that is quite fascinating, is that young people who have access to public domain books on the internet and who tend to be poor are deciding to limit their exposure to lace literature to those items that are in the public domain. Thus they are doing without the books that have been written in the interim and are preferring to reinvent the wheel rather than to take advantage of all the work done by our generation of authors. My visit to the Young Lacemakers Symposium, and also a conversation that I had with a young person encountered on Arachne revealed that in many cases the young are unaware of the universe of material that we have produced since the 1970s. For the most part it is not widely available on Amazon or in commercial bookstores. Also, even if they are aware of it, the prices which are entirely dictated by the cost of production and distribution of material on such a small scale, are prohibitively high, so that only the richest of young people could buy more than a few lace books. Market competition drives them away from the books that we have produced to the free material on the internet. I happen to think that our generation did a great service by taking books like the DMC ones with very few illustrations and making books with nice photos and diagrams, etc, but the price differential between the material that is free and everything under copyright is substantial, whereas the benefits are not as clear to many people. If young people are aware of the material that our generation has produced, they seem to think that if we could recreate it all from the books published prior to 1923 (date at which everything in the US is in public domain), they can too, and possibly in a different way. So, more than likely, Catherine's book will be forgotten in time, and someone else who has never seen Catherine's book, will take the materials in public domain, study pieces of lace, and then with a similar amount of effort and research create a similar book. So where is the benefit to the public from Catherine's work? There is none. I have to say that I am very impressed with the Deusche Kloppel Verband in that they have produced a curriculum, Lace for Beginners, in which they specifically say the material can be reproduced for teaching purposes. Although the curriculum is somewhat
RE: [lace] copyright
Hi All It is a shame that people break copyright. I for one am more than willing to share my patterns, but do like to have the credit for them. I suppose all we can do is be vigilant and hope that we win out in the end. Maureen E Yorks UK - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Copyright.
Maureen said This might be the time to remind people that if they have designed a pattern of any kind, that they make sure that their copyright is on the pattern and in such a place that it cannot be taken off. Unfortunately even in the old days carefully applied whiteout paint followed by a fresh photocopy would conceal many marks of origin, but with the onset of technology even a basic scanner and graphics programme will allow the unscrupulous to remove all traces of the originator's name and date. Perhaps we could make it as hard for them as possible by having watermarks stating copyright behind the design area, but then there is the problem that the design itself is harder to see. However, the seller's sometimes don't even bother to do this. One ebayer was selling copies of pages from Lace a while back and seemed surprised when told this was infringing copyright. However, she did remove them from sale and there has been no sign of her doing it again. I'm not sure what Antje and Pam can do when the culture in which this is happening has a very relaxed attitude to the issue. If the buyers don't mind that the pattern source is dishonest because the price is right, and no-one official is prepared to do anything, then the sellers have no compulsion to stop. I have been at meetings in Spain where home made photocopies of complete books were for sale quite openly and not just out of print ones. Jacquie in Lincolnshire - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] copyright
Jacquie is right. When the whole climate in a country disrespects copyright, it will really be an uphill battle to change that attitude. Do these lace days include suppliers who are selling actual printed books (printed and bound by legitimate publishers) for money? Such suppliers, as well as the designers, would also have an incentive to see respect for copyright in that more people would buy from them. I suppose it might be possible to use the internet and social media to get your point across. It would take a constant effort with delicate handling to make the perpetrators recognize that they are damaging real people. I did once find some of my patterns posted on someone's picasa page. Then I wrote to the individual. She was embarrassed, but readily agreed when I told her it was OK to leave the patterns there if she posted my name and a link to my website with the pattern. Lorelei - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] copyright articles
In the recent discussion about copyright law and practice, I mentioned that the beading world faced many of the same issues that the lace-making community does. Therefore, some might find the articles at this link of interest: http://tiny.cc/2bsqc Nancy Connecticut, USA, where it was _supposed_ to be sunny today and isn't :-( - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] copyright articles--correct URL
Sorry, made the wrong URL tiny. I think this is right. http://tiny.cc/guu5ta6thq NN From: Nancy Neff nnef...@yahoo.com To: Arachne lace@arachne.com Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 10:17:54 AM Subject: [lace] copyright articles In the recent discussion about copyright law and practice, I mentioned that the beading world faced many of the same issues that the lace-making community does. Therefore, some might find the articles at this link of interest: http://tiny.cc/2bsqc Nancy Connecticut, USA, where it was _supposed_ to be sunny today and isn't :-( - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
Hi All I agree with Alex totally. I am quite happy to let people have copies of any patterns I have designed, only ask that they acknowledge that it was my design.Many years ago I had a design pirated by another teacher!!! Sad really. Maureen E Yorks - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] Copyright
All my more recent prickings have their origin noted on the back before laminating. This way I can always go back to the source to find similar or to recommend to newbies. One trick I have learnt :-) My own designs - Torchon mainly and free off my website. Hugs Jenny B - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Copyright etc.
We are all made to feel so guilty about this copyright issue that we dare not breathe without thinking of potential issues involved. Thank you, Brian, for applying some common sense to this topic! Similar to students who cannot afford the software that they need to learn to later make some money by using it (and buying it as soon as they can, of course!). I don't blame them for using some evaluation copies just to learn the tools. Especially in the small lace making world we should share as much as we can to keep this craft alive. I know of a pattern creator who doesn't even allows for the lace made from her patterns to be displayed! This is so ridiculous - you may make the lace but then have to hide it from the world's eyes ... - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Copyright etc.
In a message dated 02/10/2010 11:10:21 GMT Daylight Time, ac...@achims.de writes: I know of a pattern creator who doesn't even allows for the lace made from her patterns to be displayed! But surely, if you have legitimately paid for the pattern, the lace you make from it is your own copyright as it is now the actual *thing*, with your personal differences due to thread choice etc. I'm sure that when in the past we have had posts about the minutiae of copyright and lace patterns, if you sell (or even lend) a book you are technically supposed to destroy the patterns/photocopies you made from that book, as those are what is copyright, but the lace you made from those patterns is exempt because it is your interpretation of the pattern. Not quite sure how the display aspect versus copyright would come into play if you want to display it via photos of your lace on a website (with proper credits, of course) but I really don't see how you can be stopped from displaying it in the flesh, as it were. Why doesn't she want as many people as possible to see her designs anyway? And surely if it is shown made by people other than herself, that demonstrates it is a good workable pattern. And what would she do if you did display it? Surely not have a hissy-fit in public, or ban you from her classes? Jacquie in Lincolnshire. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Copyright etc.
Hello Jacquie, Am 02.10.2010 um 12:42 schrieb laceandb...@aol.com: Why doesn't she want as many people as possible to see her designs anyway? And surely if it is shown made by people other than herself, that demonstrates it is a good workable pattern. And what would she do if you did display it? Surely not have a hissy-fit in public, or ban you from her classes? That's exactly the questions that came up in a discussion about her on a german lace list. Apparently she was afraid someone could take a photo at a lace exhibition and then reconstruct the pattern. But there's a simple solution - I just don't buy her patterns (which were quite simple Torchon patterns anyway, if I remember correctly). Best from Berlin, where it's sunny for a change and the beautiful autumn colours are starting to show up on the trees, Achim. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Copyright etc.
Prime example of someone being a little over precious if you ask me. It has clearly lost her sales in two ways. Firstly people like you Achim who won't now buy her designs and all the people who may have seen worked samples and bought designs from her. If the patterns are that simple torchon, chances are the same 'design' could be created by someone else independently by coincidence. I think it's a shame when people get precious like this as it can put people off getting into a rewarding hobby and meeting people who are mostly wonderful, sharing, friendly and inspiring makers and designers. Just my two pennyworth. Claire Allen Kent, UK staying in and having a lazy day with my son. Might even get my lace out in a minute. www.bonitocrafts.co.uk Crafty stuff I want to show off. That's exactly the questions that came up in a discussion about her on a german lace list. Apparently she was afraid someone could take a photo at a lace exhibition and then reconstruct the pattern. But there's a simple solution - I just don't buy her patterns (which were quite simple Torchon patterns anyway, if I remember correctly). - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] Copyright
Hi Arachnids I am surprised that any pattern designer who is so protective of her patterns that she will not allow lacemakers to show others lace they have made on her patterns even contemplates passing on her patterns, let alone publishes them. I think we all pass on the occasional pattern and one request I have is that you always write the source of the pattern on it when you pass it on, then if the person receiving the pattern enjoys making the lace she may purchase the book at some time. My real problem is when someone copies one of my patterns and sells it, and I know that at least one of my patterns was pirated by a supplier. Keep lacemaking Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] Copyright etc.
I was pleasantly surprised at the recent IOLI convention at Portland, that in the lesson I had with Elena Dickson, she was quite happy for us to photocopy pages from her books, if it was for ourselves, so that we could just take the necessary pages out with us, and not lug the whole book around. In fact I think she said she does that, herself, and suggested it was a good way to go if taking the Knotted lace out and about with us. We discussed the difficulty of getting the books to lie flat in a Photocopier, when they are the soft cover books! A Common Sense Aussie!! :) Seriously, I think we have to be aware of copyright, but not go overboard and get too tied in knots with it. Regards from Liz in Melbourne, Oz, where spring has sprung, today, - as Daylight Saving has kicked in for the summer! lizl...@bigpond.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] Copyright
Dear Arachnids I still have copyright for all my books. As far as I am concerned I have given the Arizonal University the right to publish it free on their site and I do not think Google can do anything about it because it is still within copyright. Could the University can take out copyright for any on their site that are out of copyright so that they can continue to provide their excellent free service? Then Google would have to make arrangements with them. Happy lacemaking Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
Alex, Nice idea but I don't think it would work legally. Initially copyright is owned by the creator of the work (for a limited period of time) or by whomever the creator sells it to. For example, I owned the copyright of the text of a book I wrote, until I accepted the payment of the commission for which I wrote it, after which the person paying me the commission owned the copyright. Material that has moved into the public domain means that it is owned by the public. No one can legally take out copyright for material they did not either create of the material or purchase from the current owner of the copyright (not just purchase a copy of the material). University of Arizona would have to pay the public for the copyright somehow... I put quotes around take out above because that's a misleading concept. Under our law, copyright is something inherently owned by the creator of anything of their own design or by a second party to whom it is sold (explicitly or implicitly, such as material created for an employer), whether the rights to the material are registered with the Library of Congress or not, and even whether or not the material is marked with a copyright declaration (although copyright is harder to enforce in the latter case). There is also the legal concept of fair use, by which we are allowed to copy excerpts from copyrighted material for personal use (but not for sale, even as excerpts). This is more complicated--e.g., how much can you copy? what is for sale--using it as course materials?, etc., and is typically addressed on a case-by-case basis (and preferrably by attorneys). Sorry to post such a long dissertation on the subject, but it is an important one for lacemakers to understand so we don't inadvertently violate our colleagues' copyrights to lace patterns, prickings, reconstructions, etc., no matter how strongly we may feel that material should be in the public domain. Also, I think Devon is quite correct in all her points about material under copyright but out-of-print etc. (One issue there is who owns the copyright--the publisher or the author? This issue is what underlies actors' and musicians' issues with their publishers, for example.) And finally, Tess should be applauded for her community spirit in making work for which she owns the copyright freely available to us (altho Devon's points there are valid also). --Nancy From: Alex Stillwell alexstillw...@talktalk.net To: lace@arachne.com Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 12:35:34 PM Subject: [lace] Copyright Dear Arachnids I still have copyright for all my books. As far as I am concerned I have given the Arizonal University the right to publish it free on their site and I do not think Google can do anything about it because it is still within copyright. Could the University can take out copyright for any on their site that are out of copyright so that they can continue to provide their excellent free service? Then Google would have to make arrangements with them. Happy lacemaking Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
The lawsuit only applies in the US. This was taken from the article, and an explanation of the 'different types' of books: Because this agreement resolves a United States lawsuit, it directly affects only those users who access Book Search in the U.S.; anywhere else, the Book Search experience won't change. Going forward, we hope to work with international industry groups and individual rightsholders to expand the benefits of this agreement to users around the world. This agreement helps define how our users may access different categories of books on Google Books. In-copyright and in-print books In-print books are books that publishers are still actively selling, the ones you see at most bookstores. This agreement expands the online marketplace for in-print books by letting authors and publishers turn on the preview and purchase models that make their titles more easily available through Book Search. In-copyright but out-of-print books Out-of-print books arent actively being published or sold, so the only way to procure one is to track it down in a library or used bookstore. When this agreement is approved, every out-of-print book that we digitize will become available online for preview and purchase, unless its author or publisher chooses to turn off that title. We believe it will be a tremendous boon to the publishing industry to enable authors and publishers to earn money from volumes they might have thought were gone forever from the marketplace. Out-of-copyright books This agreement doesn't affect how we display out-of-copyright books; we will continue to allow Book Search users to read, download and print these titles, just as we do today. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
Sue If you want to mane your pattern after someone special in your life that's fine, and you won't be breaking any rules just because someone else happened to call their pattern by the same name. It's very unlikely that your lady's name was unique, and even more unlikely that her first name (if that's what you are thinking of using) was unique, so name your pattern after her with pride and joy. Brenda On 4 May 2009, at 09:52, Sue wrote: The two reasons I started this process was because I wanted to hand on a lovely garter for my nieces and my nephews brides to wear at their weddings and then with the recent death of a very special lady I decided I wanted her name and joy of life to go with it. Brenda in Allhallows, Kent http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
[lace] Copyright
If this is of interest: From Circular 31 of the Copyright Office: Copyright protection extends to a description, explanation, or illustration of an idea or system, assuming that the requirements of the copyright law are met. Copyright in such a case protects the particular literary or pictorial expression chosen by the author. However, it gives the copyright owner no exclusive rights in the idea, method, or system involved. Suppose, for example, that an author writes a book explaining a new system for food processing. The copyright in the book, which comes into effect at the moment the work is fixed in a tangible form, will prevent others from publishing the text and illustrations describing the author’s ideas for machinery, processes, and merchandising methods. But it will not give the author any rights to prevent others from adopting the ideas for commercial purposes or from developing or using the machinery, processes, or methods described in the book. Without quoting the attorneys, they did clearly infer that one would have the right to sell an item made from a pattern, similar to sewing patterns, etc., but obviously the pattern itself is protected. They also stated that the percentage rule is a kind of rumor, and not a legal technicality. Also that many assumed copyrights may not stand up in a court of law, and that even registered copyrights, by no means a guarantee, and could give a false sense of security (paraphrased). There are so many variables that it is hard to completely qualify. I plan to drop this now, but wanted to share an excerpt of the pages and pages I was given. smile Susan - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
[lace] Copyright
There have been large and long debates on knitting and lace knitting lists about this kind of thing, and I have two friends who are patent/copyright attorneys who have advised me, and one did get into a discussion on a list. Some of the challenge on one of them was the owners of the list published patterns, and so wanted to overstate copyright to put fear into people, which perpetuated misinformation (such as you can't even make a working copy or photocopy something out of the library, even if out-of-print). To simplify, copyrights are to protect the designer from someone else taking their profit. That would be either to take a pattern, change authorship and get credit/profit from it, or take the pattern and use it to commercially produce goods, such as a manufacturer, or cottage business where someone would make dozens or thousands of goods from someone else's patterns. Of course the latter doesn't typically apply to bobbin lace. There are some inferences about a percentage of change to a pattern and then it becomes yours, and though that 10% rule is often stated, is not clear. There was one lace knit designer who was taking popular patterns, changing one stitch and sometimes the shape, like a triangle to a rectangle and putting her name on it. I call that a Cut and Paste designer and it doesn't feel morally right to me to ride on other's tails, but I digress. Sometimes old knitting patterns written out and then changed to charted are consider as getting/changing ownership. There are people doing that with Niebling patterns and many who won't buy them as they consider that infringement. I spoke to the author of a famous out-of-print book, and she stated that a working copy is legal, as have the attorneys I have spoken to. The attys also stated that there is also misunderstanding about copyright (and registered), as just putting the stamp on it, or even registering it has people assume that it in fact is protected, when legally the item may not be copyrightable, falling within copyright guidelines, and one example of this reminds me of a situation where I tried to patent a very cool system I had for diagnosis, but included soft goods and so it didn't qualify. Copyright of a pattern or artistic piece with words, and not pictures or an end-product/sample becomes another huge point. So many things to cover, but sometimes it boils down to the person or company that has money can bully the one that doesn't into complying, when the little guy is appropriate, and the power source is not, etc. So in short they stated that to make a working copy to save your original, and to make an item and sell it, would not generally be considered illegal. I know myself with my lace knitting patterns (I only have one now as a pdf download), that if someone knit that pattern for a wedding and charged for it, at this point in time I wouldn't have a problem with it, but if someone took that pattern (which took about 1800 hours with test knitting 6-7 times, and some sections up to two dozen times) I would not be happy and pursue. Essentially to me it is a moral issue, and the Golden Rule applies, or Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. That is the simplest way to state it, and if that was how life was lived, much of this wouldn't be an issue. I don't think most people would have a problem with someone selling one item they made from a pattern they created, and with the way needlework is valued overall, if they could get a good price, then kudos to them! Best, Susan Reishus www.SusanReishusDesigns.com who agrees with Brenda's statement: However, if you buy just a pattern sheet the most it's likely to have printed on it is the Copyright symbol (c) and the designer's name. That means you can't copy the pattern (other than for fair usage which does mean a copy to prick through and write notes on without damaging your 'original'), but it doesn't specifically exclude you from selling a derivative work. (In UK) even without the (c) on it an artistic work, which a BL pattern is, is automatically copyrighted at its creation, but not necessarily any derivative work. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
I follow this debate when it comes up, as best I can, but can I put a question to all those in the know please? I have been working on creating a pattern most of the afternoon, I have taken shapes, fans, spiders, dots trails and things and put them together in a way that fits (as I am working with the design package. I am not looking at books, but using different shapes to make what I hope will be a pattern I like and one I can work. I intend to give it a name (if it comes together and I like it enough) but without looking at every other torchon pattern book that is in print how can I be sure I have not repeated someone elses patterns. (I have quite a few but this is not a repeat of anything in those). It is not really likely to be an exact of anyone elses, but without looking how would I know? I dont intend to sell it, just to use it for a family piece but under my own name and under the design name I give it. Sue T There have been large and long debates on knitting and lace knitting lists about this kind of thing, and I have two friends who are patent/copyright attorneys who have advised me, and one did get into a discussion on a list. Some of the challenge on one of them was the owners of the list published patterns, and so wanted to overstate copyright to put fear into people, which perpetuated misinformation (such as you can't even make a working copy or photocopy something out of the library, even if out-of-print). - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
I think that when you have the evidence of your own design process, ie. stages in the evolution of the design that is a defence against stealing someone else's work. Obviously you have not stolen someone else's design and taken their work if you have created your own design but it resembles another person's. Devon In a message dated 5/3/2009 12:49:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hurwitz...@supanet.com writes: I follow this debate when it comes up, as best I can, but can I put a question to all those in the know please? I have been working on creating a pattern most of the afternoon, I have taken shapes, fans, spiders, dots trails and things and put them together in a way that fits (as I am working with the design package. I am not looking at books, but using different shapes to make what I hope will be a pattern I like and one I can work. I intend to give it a name (if it comes together and I like it enough) but without looking at every other torchon pattern book that is in print how can I be sure I have not repeated someone elses patterns. (I have quite a few but this is not a repeat of anything in those). It is not really likely to be an exact of anyone elses, but without looking how would I know? I dont intend to sell it, just to use it for a family piece but under my own name and under the design name I give it. Sue T There have been large and long debates on knitting and lace knitting lists about this kind of thing, and I have two friends who are patent/copyright attorneys who have advised me, and one did get into a discussion on a list. Some of the challenge on one of them was the owners of the list published patterns, and so wanted to overstate copyright to put fear into people, which perpetuated misinformation (such as you can't even make a working copy or photocopy something out of the library, even if out-of-print). - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com **The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376998x1201454298/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd=M ay5309AvgfooterNO62) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
Sue (and everyone) It isn't likely that you are repeating anyone else's pattern, although it could happen that yours is similar to one already existing. I for one don't see a problem with your method. You could include a small quirk , e.g.. an intentional mistake that only you and another lacemaker might notice, that will make the pattern unique ;) May I seque to a parallel: An acquaintance made and sold patchwork items of her own design. She paid people to do the piecework; first they had to sign a paper that they would not use her designs for themselves. Fair enough.The first pattern was a potholder of two squares of fabric stitched wrong sides together and turned, then topstitched. Not highly original in my estimation, and I wondered to myself, how do you copyright a square? On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Sue hurwitz...@supanet.com wrote: ok that is in print how can I be sure I have not repeated someone elses patterns. (I have quite a few but this is not a repeat of anything in those). It is not really likely to be an exact of anyone elses, but without looking how would I know? -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
I don't think you could copyright that in the US because it lacks sufficient uniqueness. You can't copyright the concept of the wheel or the word the either. I think there is an argument to be made that most torchon designs don't really have sufficient uniqueness, since they are rather simple. If it is simple enough that people are accidentally creating the same thing on a torchon design program, it is probably not unique or original enough to merit a copyright. Devon In a message dated 5/3/2009 1:55:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, walker.b...@gmail.com writes: Sue (and everyone) It isn't likely that you are repeating anyone else's pattern, although it could happen that yours is similar to one already existing. I for one don't see a problem with your method. You could include a small quirk , e.g.. an intentional mistake that only you and another lacemaker might notice, that will make the pattern unique ;) May I seque to a parallel: An acquaintance made and sold patchwork items of her own design. She paid people to do the piecework; first they had to sign a paper that they would not use her designs for themselves. Fair enough.The first pattern was a potholder of two squares of fabric stitched wrong sides together and turned, then topstitched. Not highly original in my estimation, and I wondered to myself, how do you copyright a square? On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Sue hurwitz...@supanet.com wrote: ok that is in print how can I be sure I have not repeated someone elses patterns. (I have quite a few but this is not a repeat of anything in those). It is not really likely to be an exact of anyone elses, but without looking how would I know? -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com **The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376998x1201454298/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd=M ay5309AvgfooterNO62) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
rather than simple...I think you mean conventional, the stitch elements are commonly combined (same as my erstwhile quilt designer - squares and rectangles in combination)(interesting, she was from the US). Then there are Torchon designers who go beyond convention, producing lace that is recognizable Torchon yet in a stylized form. Thank you for mentioning the word 'unique.' On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:18 AM, dmt11h...@aol.com wrote: I don't think you could copyright that in the US because it lacks sufficient uniqueness. You can't copyright the concept of the wheel or the word the either. I think there is an argument to be made that most torchon designs don't really have sufficient uniqueness, since they are rather simple. If it is simple enough that people are accidentally creating the same thing on a torchon design program, it is probably not unique or original enough to merit a copyright. -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
Hi: With some laces, particularly simple designs where you are on a grid system, it is quite possible for several people to independently design the same thing. That is nothing more than coincidence and it is not breaking the law. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to know what all the other designs look like and you don't have to be the judge of whether yours is too similar to another, since your designed your own. Let's say someone does sue you over the similarity between your design and hers. You still don't need to worry. If you have independently designed it you have your working diagrams and your test pieces and you've been talking about it with your friends and they'll probably see or hear about your test pieces and your problems and triumphs - there is, in other words, a trail of evidence that will protect you. Some people are deluded by the power of copyright: Many years ago a lacemaker I knew made a tape lace design in a simple trefoil pattern - the one that has three loops, one after the other, forming a leaf-like design. She wrote her name and the copyright symbol on it and proudly informed everyone that they were no longer permitted to make any lace using any form of any trefoil pattern, because she had copyrighted it. She honestly believed she had the power to take over a form of pattern that has been with us for thousands of years, and because she was a rather pugnacious woman nobody tried to talk her out of it. Fortunately she never tried to sue anybody. Adele North Vancouver, B.C. (west coast of Canada) I follow this debate when it comes up, as best I can, but can I put a question to all those in the know please? I have been working on creating a pattern most of the afternoon, I have taken shapes, fans, spiders, dots trails and things and put them together in a way that fits (as I am working with the design package. I am not looking at books, but using different shapes to make what I hope will be a pattern I like and one I can work. I intend to give it a name (if it comes together and I like it enough) but without looking at every other torchon pattern book that is in print how can I be sure I have not repeated someone elses patterns. (I have quite a few but this is not a repeat of anything in those). It is not really likely to be an exact of anyone elses, but without looking how would I know? I dont intend to sell it, just to use it for a family piece but under my own name and under the design name I give it. Sue T - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] Copyright
Along the same lines, I have seen a piece of lace submitted to an IOLI convention competition, which was extremely familiar to me. It did not take long to find the piece which I remembered. The person had made a new design by transforming an edging with a geometric design... to a design which had the edge on both sides (no footside). Because this was a geometric design to begin with, there was not a great deal of change to be made. She entered this in the original design class of the competition, and it gained an honor. I am being vague for obvious reasons. In conversations with others who are far more knowledgeable than I am in this regard, I was told that the rule of thumb is that there must be a certain percentage of change from the original in order to call it ones own. (15%, 20%?) But these same experts also said that whenever they published something that had significant elements of a traditional piece, they would give credit to the original, as in ...inspired by..., or ... in the style of... Now *that* I can live with. Clay Clay Blackwell Lynchburg, VA, USA Adele Shaak wrote: Hi: With some laces, particularly simple designs where you are on a grid system, it is quite possible for several people to independently design the same thing. That is nothing more than coincidence and it is not breaking the law. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to know what all the other designs look like and you don't have to be the judge of whether yours is too similar to another, since your designed your own. Let's say someone does sue you over the similarity between your design and hers. You still don't need to worry. If you have independently designed it you have your working diagrams and your test pieces and you've been talking about it with your friends and they'll probably see or hear about your test pieces and your problems and triumphs - there is, in other words, a trail of evidence that will protect you. Some people are deluded by the power of copyright: Many years ago a lacemaker I knew made a tape lace design in a simple trefoil pattern - the one that has three loops, one after the other, forming a leaf-like design. She wrote her name and the copyright symbol on it and proudly informed everyone that they were no longer permitted to make any lace using any form of any trefoil pattern, because she had copyrighted it. She honestly believed she had the power to take over a form of pattern that has been with us for thousands of years, and because she was a rather pugnacious woman nobody tried to talk her out of it. Fortunately she never tried to sue anybody. Adele North Vancouver, B.C. (west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
[lace] Copyright
how can I be sure I have not repeated someone elses patterns Sue Some designs are natural evolutions or inherent within their particular forms, such as torchon, or basic geometric patterns in knitted lace. These of themselves aren't really copyrightable as they are so prevalent, but in combination with other things or placement (to try to describe) may be. Many patterns/designs were passed on ages ago, by word of mouth and demonstration as there wasn't paper/writing reading readily available. Then written out instructions or printed word made laws applicable, and now charting designs (or shorthand), such as in lace knitting has made patterns more available for many reasons. One of which is that the design is often reflected in the chart, and with the internet, there is suddenly an inundation of sharing and information, etc. If it is your design, and you created it, then ultimately it is between you and God, IMHO. I worked and worked at a lace filling that would work for a design, and came up with one, and much later found out that it existed in a book, as there are only so many ways to simply work an open field/filling in lace knitting.I didn't copyright the filling, but the design itself and writing the thing from scratch was why I charged more for the pattern than some would. Rarely are these kinds of things done from scratch anymore. I suppose someone could state I stole the mesh from a book, but to my mind it is ultimately between myself and the Divine, and I don't really care what anyone else says as I know the truth. I also tried to write an edging and saw after much time why it hadn't existed. It was technically impossible, but I wrote one close to my wish and that was a lot of work too. Please don't let fear limit your creative process. We need new and different and perhaps more evolution in needlework. Elizabeth Zimmerman, a knitter, has said nothing new in the world can be designed in knitting, and called all things as unventing. It always bothered me from the first time I heard it and it is because it wasn't true. We have become more innovative the last ten years or so because of the internet and resurgence in knitting (some think that 9/11 fostered the nesting/knitting in the US), similar to how the lace was shared and modified as people became more nomadic and traveled or moved to other countries. Then there is the phenomena where people come up with identical (or nearly) things at the same time, like two guys showing up at the patent office simultaneously. Kind of like the hundredth monkey story. There will always be those who are sheep, and those who are sheep herders, raising their head above the maddening crowds, finding ideas and solutions and thinking about the betterment of the whole, without selfish agenda. Design, design girl! LOL We need more inspiration in the world! Of course creating, and love are the essence of being here, and if the two go together ... all the better! smile Best, Susan Reishus - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
[lace] Copyright
I have been following this thread and did not intend to make any comment. However, a friend's experience has made me think! First, just a cautionary warning, postings have come from countries all over the world and what applies in one country may be different in another! Now mt friends experience. She went into a local photocopying place and they refused to copy a pricking for her, pointing to the statement in the book that it was not allowed and she could not convince them that it would spoil the book to use it as a pricking. She accepted this, though they were quite happy for her to photocopy it herself! This lead to me thinking, would it be a good idea for all the national lace organisations to approach the publishers of our book and ask them to include a line in the front saying that we can copy one pricking for our own use? I know it would be a massive undertaking for someone to do this, but it would seem to be a way out of what is going to be an ever-growing and on-going problem for us!!! Sue Fink, Masterton, New Zealand - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright (long)
Dear spiders I'd just like to add my two pennyworth here as I have personal experience of copyright infringement. Whilst browsing through the books at Olympia (London) when visiting a large craft fair, I happened to notice a book on stumpwork so took it from the shelf and flicked through the pages. I thought I saw a pattern of the Swan with raised wings from my own book Needlelace, but thought it couldn't possibly be! However, this 'niggled' away at the back of my mind and I just had to go back and take another look, to satisfy my curiosity. Sure enough, it was my design and even though I did not want the book, I had to buy a copy to take home and compare with my own. Whilst waiting for my friend to arrive, I read the Introduction and Acknowledgements where my name and that of Jane Nicholas and Jill Nordfors Clark were acknowledged as having been a great influence, which was of course very generous of this lady and much appreciated. I then turned to the page for the swan and I quote 'One day a book arrived in the mail from my friend -- It was Needlelace Designs and Techniques by Catherine Barley. Along with a note . you need to design a swan to teach at seminar next year. So I did'! To my mind, this statement left the reader in no doubt that the design was her own. However, I traced off the pattern pieces and placed the tracing on top of the pattern in my own book to discover that it was exactly the same, even to the placement of pattern pieces on the page. There had been no attempt whatsoever to perhaps change the shape of the wings, or elongate and perhaps change the angle of the neck. I know a swan is a swan but... Flattering as it is, it is plagiarism! I had been having correspondence with an American lady who owned a needlelwork shop in the US and emailed her asking for her opinion. She was horrified and gave me names and addresses of two gentlemen in America who were taking up this issue which was apparently a big problem over there. She was also concerned about her own legal position as a retailer of both my book and that (self published) by the other person. Now that it had been brought to her notice about copyright infringement, how did she stand herself? She decided to no longer stock this other lady's book! I own the copyright of my book but did write to this lady pointing out that vast sums of money are paid in the music industry for plagiarism and that I had no intention of taking the matter any further but that she should be aware that others might not be so generous, namely publishers. I felt that she had committed this act in all innocence as she had actually mentioned my name twice in print, and surely would not have drawn attention to my own book, had she realised what she had done. She did respond with an apology saying that she had forgotten at the time, where the design had originated. My book was originally published in 1993 and hers in 2000. Authors of craft books do not write them to become wealthy ( as someone else has already pointed out) but to pass on their skills and knowledge to others, so that the craft may survive the passing of time. I for one, don't mind how many times folk copy patterns or if it is more than 10%. If someone buys a lace book and works their way through it as the author intended, having given a great deal of thought to making the patterns 'progressive', then particularly for bobbin lace patterns, the owner of the book would have to photocopy every pattern in the book to be able to work them. And why not! She has purchased the book and as far as I am concerned, it is hers to use as she pleases! Catherine Barley Henley-0n-Thames United Kingdom - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright/ covers
Thank you for explaining the difference between cover and cover (dust jacket). Now I understand what you are talking about :-) Ann-Marie, Sweden [EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev: I think there is a difference in terms here. What they are talking about when they say a book without a cover is when you have a paperback book with the cardboard like cover ripped off so that instead of a picture you have a piece of the interior paper on the front of the book. As opposed to a hardback book that has a cover which can be removed easily (in America often refered to as a Dust Jacket). Selling a hardbound book without the dust jacket is okay. Selling a paperback book that has the cover ripped off (thereby damaging the book) makes it illegal to sell because that's how a bookstore returns the book to the publisher for credit if they don't actually sell the book. Orla - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright
I get 75 pence for each copy of my books sold to the original purchaser. I get 75 pence for the one copy bought by a library. There are insufficient borrowings from the library for me to get the 1 penny per borrowing that authors can get (public lending right). Then the tax man demanded his 22 per cent of the huge amount I received. I get nothing from the person who buys it from the original purchase. I have to accept that I get nothing from a book resold, but I would be very annoyed if someone was so mean that they wanted to use the patterns for free by borrowing the book from the library. That shows they put no value on the work done by the designer. Would they be employed for no pay? I'm now happy to give away any of my work to anyone who wants it - I can afford to now. But when I originally wrote my books I did it because I needed to earn some money. I met a lacemaker last year who positively bragged about copying CDs and sticking her own labls on the copies, and borrowing lace books from the library and copying huge chunks of them as well as the patterns. She did not understand that copying from printed material is allowed for educational purposes and then for information or research only. Cearbhael wrote: I have seen classes where instructions were copied and I suspect they didn't write for permission...I think that is a widespread issue these days but it is hard to catch unless it is done on a large. I had a colleague who wrote text books, and who made more money out of suing educational establishments for infringement of copyright when more than the portion allowed to be copied for educational purposes was made than he did from royalties on sales. Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright/using lace books/other sundry matters
some more random ramblings on the matter wanted to use the patterns for free by borrowing the book from the library. That shows they put no value on the work done by the designer. Would they be employed for no pay? Nothing is really 'free' ;) The library user does pay in some way - at least here, we have to prove we live in the jurisdiction of the public library, ergo we are paying the taxes that support the library, before receiving the library card for borrowing privileges. As well, being a library user - if a title is popular, one might have to wait for months for a chance to borrow it, then might only have a short time with it before having to return it for the next user. The chance of being able to peruse a pristeen new book is limited - the lace books I would borrow in the past were well-thumbed! When I was first interested in learning lacemaking and borrowing library books on the subject, if we wanted our own copy, we could ask the local bookstore to order one in - they would contact the publisher,usually in the UK, then after months of waiting for the order to be processed it would be ours for about double the original cost. Often the store would wait until there were more titles to order, from that publisher - if none, then ordering a single book was impractical and we would find out we couldn't get the book after all! It leads me to wonder how libraries here decided to put lacemaking titles on their shelves, back in the 1980's . However way, I'm glad they did! I agree there is not much money at all in it for the book author - but again - should the book be out there and in use, or kept hidden except to a select group who pay outright for it? It is possible that the book borrower decides to invest in a copy of the title for themselves, too, especially now that buying books is easier than it used to be. I rarely borrow from a library now - returning library books on time was a scheduling hassle, and I so disliked having to pay the ensuing late fines ~ better to buy the book :) Authors and artists have a right to their due income though in reality neither profession is lucrative except for a few lucky enough to find a decent market. Most visual artists I know also have secondary jobs that provide their primary income ~ -- Bev in Sooke BC (on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright/using lace books/other sundry matters
It leads me to wonder how libraries here decided to put lacemaking titles on their shelves, back in the 1980's . My local library has a few lace books. Most of them contain statements that they were donated to the library by Robin Russ Handweavers. It's possible that other libraries also received donated lace books from various people. I try to make a point of checking out the lace books periodically, so they have a record of usage, since I'm sure there's very few people using them right now. The local lacemakers have their own libraries at home. If the books show no usage, they will be discarded. When I was a beginner, I checked out these books, and worked a pattern that I copied out of one. I found I could do it, and went on to later buy hundreds of lace books (over a period of years). Many authors earned money from me that might not have happened without that exposure through the library books. Perhaps library usage should be considered advertising. On a slightly different subject, I have audiobooks that carry a statement that they are not to be used by lending libraries. That company is trying to get every listener to have to buy a copy in order to hear the story. Most of my audiobooks do not say that, and I know my library has a large section of tapes or CD's to check out. I think I should put a library visit on my TO DO list. Happy lacing, Alice in Oregon -- where spring rains just started again - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright/ covers
What is so important of the cover? I have bought my books from the US in online shops and I think only one or two of them has a cover, the rest of them are like pocketbooks. My three books by Elwyn Kenn has no covers. Do the shops sell unlegitimate books then?? Or do they sell different kinds of books to other countries?? Regards Ann-Marie in Sweden [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.thebreastcancersite.com http://community.webshots.com/user/annma1 http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltmaid - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright/using lace books/other sundry matters
I rarely borrow from a library now - When I started lacemaking, my father had to feed, and pay tuition(?) for 6 other children. Those days I used to be a jack-of-all-trades with loaned books, but I finally concentrated on bobbin lace. If it wasn't for the library I might have never started at a later age and buy the books when I could afford from my own earnings, here they are http://www.librarything.com/profile/kantelier The copies of the early days ar now destroyed. In other words, the allmost nill income via libraries can be an investment for the future. Or you might harvest from preceding authors. Jo from the Netherlands - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Copyright/ covers
I think there is a difference in terms here. What they are talking about when they say a book without a cover is when you have a paperback book with the cardboard like cover ripped off so that instead of a picture you have a piece of the interior paper on the front of the book. As opposed to a hardback book that has a cover which can be removed easily (in America often refered to as a Dust Jacket). Selling a hardbound book without the dust jacket is okay. Selling a paperback book that has the cover ripped off (thereby damaging the book) makes it illegal to sell because that's how a bookstore returns the book to the publisher for credit if they don't actually sell the book. Orla From: Ann-Marie Lördal [EMAIL PROTECTED] What is so important of the cover? I have bought my books from the US in online shops and I think only one or two of them has a cover, the rest of them are like pocketbooks. My three books by Elwyn Kenn has no covers. Do the shops sell unlegitimate books then?? Or do they sell different kinds of books to other countries?? Regards Ann-Marie in - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Copyright/ covers
I think there is a difference in terms here. What they are talking about when they say a book without a cover is when you have a paperback book with the cardboard like cover ripped off so that instead of a picture you have a piece of the interior paper on the front of the book. As opposed to a hardback book that has a cover which can be removed easily (in America often refered to as a Dust Jacket). Selling a hardbound book without the dust jacket is okay. Selling a paperback book that has the cover ripped off (thereby damaging the book) makes it illegal to sell because that's how a bookstore returns the book to the publisher for credit if they don't actually sell the book. Orla From: Ann-Marie L?rdal What is so important of the cover? I have bought my books from the US in online shops and I think only one or two of them has a cover, the rest of them are like pocketbooks. My three books by Elwyn Kenn has no covers. Do the shops sell unlegitimate books then?? Or do they sell different kinds of books to other countries?? Regards Ann-Marie in - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright, copying - of lace patterns
This topic came from lace chat where the discussion is to do with original artworks (e.g. a painting). However, on the topic of 'copying' lace patterns, I shall add some random thoughts here: I agree it could be vexing if potential sales are hampered that a lace group buys a single of a pattern and shares copies amongst themselves - although I wouldn't call it stealing. Illegal use, sure (at least it is 'use'). What I would call 'stealing' is if someone were to put their own name on my design! As a lace pattern designer myself, there are considerations - ' do I want my designs out there and in use, or do I put a price on them, and try to control where they go? ' Regarding Torchon patterns: on the regular grid, simply by recombining the various stitch elements characteristic of this lace, they are easy to design for many of us. It isn't too difficult to look at a generic Torchon pattern or an existing lace and copy it from sight if one wants to - so this gave me the thought about protecting the design - a good way to protect a design is to make it distinctive, recognizable to lacemakers as 'that' designer's work - then if copied and passed around among friends, there won't be any doubt as to whose design it is. This gives respect to the design, even if money doesn't change hands, and protects the designer against someone else passing it off as their own. There are many, many ways to recombine Torchon stitches, and we can substitute one for another depending on the pattern. When I do a Torchon pattern 'from scratch' I'm not really confident in calling it 'original' unless I make a drastic change from convention. One thing I tried was putting a 5-leaf crossing where technically only 4 should go - it wasn't easy to work g - originality in Torchon is hard to pin down (pardon the pun). For copying lace patterns, therein lies a quandry also for the lacemaker - can we use 'copyright' lace patterns without copying them. Fortunately most copyright holders (and litigators) are agreeable to the personal use clause. If not, then they don't want us to use their patterns - and I guess better not to buy them ;) One last thing, I don't understand how re-selling an original copy is illegal. The buyer owns the piece of paper, not the design. And on that line, auction houses and secondhand bookstores would be in big trouble vbg but if there is a logical explanation, I'd welcome it. Others have weighed in, and I think I'll head off to do some lacing, or gardening... -- Bev in Sooke BC (on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada) On 4/17/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, we are one of the biggest designers of Torchon lace patterns. They are, in English law, copy right. You may not copy at all without our permission. We tell our customer we don't mind them copying the bought copy for their own use. It is illegal to copy and give away copies and it is illegal to sell the original after you have finished with it. All this I got from our solicitor - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright, and lace patterns
How wonderful if there was an infinite number of new books available to be bought and an infinite amount of money to be spent. But such is not the case. How horrid if second hand books had to be destroyed. How horrid if public libraries could not lend books for fear that copyright might be infringed by a borrower. How sad if teachers (of any kind, anywhere) could not use what information and resources they can find to teach with. How very sad if all this led to the irrevocable loss of information and knowledge. We have all of us had surrendipitous finds of old magazines, prickings, photos, postcards, books and or lace pieces that have contributed to our knowledge and pleasure as lace makers. All of us have shared our finds, even if only at guild 'show and tells'. That's how traditional knowledge is kept alive. Yes, there are issues of legality and commercial exchange. Yes, we need to acknowledge and respect the work, skill and creativity of those who produce originals, in whatever form or format. We also need to find ways of not impeading the free flow of information and expertise. I teach at university and one of my greatest challenges is to navigate the Canadian copyright laws and to teach my students how to cite their sources explicitely and completely. To be found plagiarizing could cost them the right to even be at university. Certainly, it would cost them any credibility as a researcher. On the other hand, none of us would be allowed to publich research if it was not based on prior work, the better to contextualize the newness of our contribution. Its a narrow bridge over a deep chasm. Honesty and transparency are paramount virtues. So is intellectual curiosity and the willingness to share. I hope we as lacemakers can find a way to both continue the tradition of lacemaking that preceeds us and to build a future store of innovative design and skilled execution for our descendants to admire and emulate. Lucie DuFresne Ottawa Guild of Lacemakers Ottawa Canada Hello all, Selling a book secondhand - the author (lace designer) makes no royalties from the book sold secondhand, so why not discourage the practice and have everyone buy a brand new copy, thus the designer can make some money! That is the only downer from secondhand sales that I can see, and of course owner #1 must keep no copies, Xeroxed or otherwise. Susie Johnson, School librarian in my former life. Morris Illinois Where I am waiting to hear how my Malamute is doing in Surgery this morning. HUGS [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] pictures of lace - copyright
On 14 Sep 2006, at 01:00, Tess Parrish wrote: I would certainly think that any old laces in your personal collections would be free to copy, but I think one would have to be careful about modern work. Certainly, any lace made from someone else's design might not be permitted, unless the designer gives written (emailed) permission. I could be wrong about that. This again opens up the whole can of worms about copyright! The details of copyright law vary from country to country but in general the principal is that an artistic work is copyrighted from its creation (you may need to register the copyright if you want to bring about a law suit) and only the copyright holder can grant permission to someone else to copy that work, other than for personal study. OK, that's straightforward enough with pictures and diagrams. The lace pattern itself; ie the arrangement of lines and dots on a piece of paper would certainly be copyrighted, but is an interweaving of threads, albeit based on those lines and dots, a *copy* of that pattern? Answers to the group please! Tess, if there is anything in my lace gallery that you would like to use for the Professor's site please let me know and I'll send you more detailed photos. Everything there is my own design and work so all the copyright is mine. http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/lace/lacepics/lacepics.html Brenda http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright adventure
Hi All, I think this belongs on lace, if not please forgive me! I finally got permission from all four designers of the US lace stamps! I have not been working on this all day, every day for a month but I have put a little time into it. Now I have written Debra Jenny for permission to reprint the IOLI portion of the article. When I started this I thought I only had to write Debra, I'd forgotten the designer holds the copyright to the patterns! I have had very nice communication with three of the lace makers and the daughter of one. Mary McPeek, who was one of the forces behind getting the stamps made, is 94 so I spoke to her daughter. She will tell Mary McPeek about the interest in the stamps, worldwide interest, after all these years! I'll mail the articles off after I hear from Debra. Jane in Vermont, USA where the very early crocuses across the street are in bloom!! Often at this time of year they're still under piles of snow. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright...
This is a very good spot to go to on the web to check Copyright infringement. It is specifically written for Copyright and educators This should apply to lace instructors whether you have one student or several. http://home.earthlink.net/~cnew/research.htm#Purpose%20of%20use Have a Great Day! Susie Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 815-942-3722 - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright...
In a message dated 24/05/2005 15:27:25 GMT Daylight Time, Susie Johnson writes: This is a very good spot to go to on the web to check Copyright infringement. It is specifically written for Copyright and educators This should apply to lace instructors whether you have one student or several. http://home.earthlink.net/~cnew/research.htm#Purpose%20of%20use Have a Great Day! This is a great site but guys please remember that this site is based on US law - you will need to check your home country's position on copyright. Regards Liz in London I'm back _blogging_ (http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee) my latest lace piece - have a look by clicking on the link or going to _http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee_ (http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright on Out of Print
Spiders, I contacted the UK Patents office and they wrote back first thing this morning - really lovely people and very helpful in going through the information on copying from out of print books. Basically, under UK law, if a book or document is out of print the same restrictions to copying it apply as if it was in print. Therefore, if you own the lace book / pattern you can copy it whether it is in print or out of print. If you don't own the book - you need to contact the author for permission to copy. Pure and simple. Regards Liz in London I'm back blogging my latest lace piece - have a look by clicking on the link or going to http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] copyright
Another thought just entered my mind. What happens when I die with all my lacemaking equipment. There are no guild I can give it to here. If my daughter don´t want to make lace, she has shown no interest so far, she is 28. Shall she threw it all away or make some money on it selling it second hand or can she give it away to someone who is interested in lace? Ann-Marie, Sweden http://community.webshots.com/user/annma1 http://www.ettklickforskogen.se/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] copyright/photographs
Good morning All, This subject seems to involve so many twists and turns but just two points stick me. Someone (sorry I can't remember who and I accidentally deleted your message when I was trying to highlight a quote) said that people wouldn't design/create new patterns if they didn't think they could profit from them. That may be true in the 'outside' commercial world but yet again I am sure does not apply to Lacemaking. Even people who manage to publish books do not make a living wage out of them, when you consider the years it takes to prepare, design and make samples of all of the work. The vast majority of new lace designs are made just because we feel the urge nad if friends like them we give them a copy and perhaps send them to our Lace guild magazine. One the recent OIDFA tour we visited many museums and galleries. In some we were allowed to take photographs in others not. (It sometimes changed with the groups going round) This was particularly strict in the various schools we visited. People didn't appreciate that we wanted photos to show the folks back home what kind of lace was being made, not to copy the designs. I was goign to put some of my pictures up on the web today but now I'm not so sure. Jean in Cleveland U.K. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] copyright and Romanian lace
Dear Spiders, I am perfectly happy for people who have purchased my Romanian Point Lace book to make any of the items from the patterns. That is the purpose of the book. I expect them to photo-copy the patterns for their own personal use. I would be very unhappy if they sold the finished items and profited from them. I would be even more unhappy if anyone copied my diagrams and used them in another publication. I was very pleased that Sulachona had made a doily from the lace photo without a drawn pattern. I considered it a compliment in that she had understood the technique by studying the book. Years ago I attended a class on cloth doll making tutored by Anne Dyer. She gave us the patterns as part of the class. I asked her if she minded people reproducing her dolls and she replied, no, if three people see an idea it is in the Public Domain and it would inspire her to produce something else. Angela Thompson back home at last after an adventurous stay in USA after Harrisburg IOLI. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright, my two penn'th
My understanding of copyright is that you are not permitted to *reproduce* something which is in copyright without permission. In UK, if you own a book, you are allowed to make copies for your own personal use, which means that if the book shows a short length of lace pattern you can make several copies to go around a roller pillow, or make 4 copies of a corner to make a square, plus the (enlarged) working copy which you doodle over etc. Reproduction of a lace pattern, or a dressmaking pattern, could be by photocopying, photography (film or digital), electronic scanning, tracing or skilled detailed drawing. Reproduction of a cookery recipe, or instructions for making the lace or dress could be by photocopying, photography (film or digital), electronic scanning, writing, typing, word processing or audio recording. Using the pattern/recipe to make a piece of lace, a dress or a cake is not reproduction of the original, but using the original as a tool. I can't see that your own photo of the lace you have made, the dress you have sewn, or the cake you have baked is a breach of copyright if you choose to publish it on a personal website. I design most of my own lace patterns, or if I use someone else's it is generally adapted quite a bit. That's because I like being creative and get more satisfaction from working my own designs. Over the years I've made a few pennies from selling BL patterns, but the financial return in consideration of the hours spent designing and making is very minimal. I also know that a lot of people will share patterns - 'we'll buy one each and make copies'. Whilst that's illegal it's hardly worth making a fuss about. Only if I saw someone selling my patterns without permission would I get upset. If I go to a lace day and see one of my designs on a pillow, or finished and on display I get a kick of pride knowing that I designed it, and I take it as a compliment that someone else liked the pattern enough to make it up. Brenda http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] copyright
Weronika If you have concerns about copyright and are thinking about putting adaptations up on a website, you really SHOULD go to the U.S. Copyright office website and review it very carefully. They will give you a fair amount of guidance. http://www.copyright.gov/ I'm not a lawyer but I can read instructions and for someone who is doing adaptations it is really essential that you understand the ground rules. And rather than get the rules from hearsay or somebody's opinion, you really should get it from the horse's mouth. Many years ago I designed some corners for patterns in the DMC Encyclopedia of Needlework and a Cluny pattern from the lace school at Le Puy. I have never published or sold those patterns because, even though the corner was entirely my own idea and a substantial addition to the original, I still didn't think I should. If you are clever enough to make substantial additions to a pre-existing pattern or adapt it to a different purpose, you sound like an incipient designer-in-the-making. You probably have it in you to design original patterns on your own. Perhaps it is time to begin. Count the adaptations as a step on the learning curve. Lorelei - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] copyright for crafters
Here are a couple sites that describe copyright laws in layman's language and how they pertain to crafters. The laws are American but copyright law differences between countries are not as dramatic as some people believe (mostly they affect books that are published in different versions in different countries, like UK and US versions of Harry Potter). I thought you might find these sites interesting. http://www.geocities.com/jbtocker/copyright/ http://www.girlfromauntie.com/copyright/index.asp Best wishes, Avital - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright
Another suggestion, which I have used, - is to contact the Author of the book, and get permission to use an adaptation of their work. I have done this twice, with 2 different authors, as I made lace by copying an old piece pictured in a book. I received permission, providing I gave the credit to them and the book. Usually, they are pleased that their book has inspired someone to that extent. The V A Museum, has also given me permission to lift a few flowers, and other ideas from their magnificent book, and try reproducing them. Just ask the relevant person, you may be pleasantly surprised by their helpful answer. from Liz in Melbourne, Oz, [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] copyright issues
Yes, Yes, Yes - do you think I want to trace patterns then prick them - I love the fact that I can photocopy the pattern then take a true pricking from it. In a message dated 28/08/2003 20:29:53 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As an aside, I consider the photocopy machine a bonafide lace tool :) Regards Liz Beecher - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
In a message dated 29/08/2003 23:34:37 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Whether Buck's pricking of the Channer Mat is even copyrightable by Bean or Buck is a thorny legal question, since Channer had published the mat previously and it was already in the public domain. I believe that the copyright is of the interpretation / version published. If you had access to the original pricking and trued up a pattern from there and published it with the permission of the owner of the original pricking (who owns the original pricking and therefore the copyright to that) then you would own the copyright to your version. But if you are going to court then don't quote me - get legal advice Liz - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] copyright issues
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I love the fact that I can photocopy the pattern then take a true pricking from it. But only if the photocopier doesn't distort the pattern - be warned, and do a sample copy first with accurately measured horizontal and vertical lines - or you might have anything but at true pattern! Printing processes are just as bad - the cakeband in Needlecraft or Needlework - can't remember which - several years ago caused one of my students major headaches. Thanks to contact with the designer, who was a friend of a friend, we discovered, on checking the magazine against her computer print out, the magazine pricking was 2mm narrower and 5mm shorter - and her design had been for Coton Perle 8 at virtually its will just fit in this grid point. After the distortion in the printing processes, it didn't fit at all! -- Jane Partridge - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright -- again :)
On Thursday, Aug 28, 2003, at 10:25 US/Eastern, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Devon)wrote: I had the interesting experience of writing an article for the IOL Bulletin and later receiving a request to translate it into German for publication in a German Lace Mag. I had no idea what the legal status of this request was. I had no objection to it being republished. In fact, I was flattered. I asked the IOL and they had no idea whether their permission was required, but said they had no objection. In general, for anything you publish in IOLI, you keep the copyright (probably because, while you get a thank you of some sort, you do not get *paid*. I wonder if I should be reporting my extra copies of the Bulletin and/or the thank-you bobbins to IRS, and pay taxes on them???), and their permision to republish (in English or any other language) is not needed, if someone else wants the article/pattern. Competition entries are a bit of a gray area, because, when you enter, you sign the permission for first dibs to go to IOLI -- the pattern/etc is still yours, and you can publish it anywhere you want, but only if IOLI is not interested in publishing it *first*. I always assume that anything I send for a publication in a magazine, is free for all, without any copyright issues involved; if Robin wants to copy a pattern for every member of her guild, I have no objection -- quite the opposite :) I used to get asked permission about reprints/copies, and responding was more trouble than it was worth, so then I tried putting in something like feel free to make copies, but give credit to me for designing with the patterns. I should have added: and let me know you've done so, as my reward; a pattern got reproduced, I only heard about it from third parties -- a lot of bad feelings all around :) I was also -- once -- asked to *sell* a pattern, and the woman had a hard time taking a no for the answer. It was the Swan (what else g). I told her it had been published in IOLI -- her customers don't subscribe to it (she was Swedish, I think)... I told her it was available to anyone who wanted it on a website -- her customers didn't know a URL from a U-Haul... I finally said that I wasn't ready to enter the tax quagmire for the cut I might be expected to get, and she gave up pestering me... For all I know, she'd found the website, printed it off, and is peddling the pattern to the un-clued. If she does, I think I'd be irritated a bit to learn about it, though it would be an irrational feeling -- I don't mind people copying for their (and/or ther friends') use; I don't mind people making up a pattern in a 100 copies to sell (either for personal profit or for the benefit of a charity), so why stick at someone copying a pattern to sell? All I can say is that, to me, it would not be honourable... To change the subject *slightly*... In many-messages-ago, Clay asked how one could possibly measure the 15-20% of skew, when it came to an original (artistic) design... Well, I know at least one person who'd done it *mathematically* :) Bought a cross-stitch kit, which depicted a sail-boat on a calm sea. Changed the *direction* in which the pennant was flying (so, OK, it no longer made sense from the *physics* perspective; but there's such a thing as artistic extension g), and entered it as an original design in a county crafts fair. Won, too, I seem to remember. And very proud of herself, for being so clever -- between the boat and the sea, the area of the pennant was well above the 15%... Takes all kinds :) Perhaps the IOL is missing a bet. It should have Tom write a regular feature called Copyright Corner Not a bad idea. Though Uncle Tom's Corner seems an inescapable title for the column and I doubt he'd like it :) - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
Tamara, You do have a way with wordsAnd, we're going to miss you at Sweet Briar in October... B.A. Tamara P. Duvall wrote: -- her customers didn't know a URL from a U-Haul... I finally said that I wasn't ready to enter the tax quagmire for the cut I might be expected to get, and she gave up pestering me... Not a bad idea. Though Uncle Tom's Corner seems an inescapable title for the column and I doubt he'd like it :) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
You are right, Tamara, I don't think the name has a ring I would want to be associated with. Besides there can't be that many legal questions to lace. Your reasoning is sound about the tax quagmire. It is not worth it. Unless you can show a profit every five years it is considered a hobby anyway (horse farms are 7 years). I have been a member of the Tax Court bar for 26 years. There are so few of you, compared to the population, that there is not ever going to be much of a profit in publishing anything. I don't even think that hour for hour you could make minimum wage making lace. It is a great hobby, keeps DW out of the bars and off the street, and is far less expensive than shopping. My advice to you all, is to forget these meaningless legalities, enjoy what you are doing, and spend more time lacing and less time worried about the rules of the game. Keep on Lacing, Tom Andrews - Original Message - From: Tamara P. Duvall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arachne lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 12:23 AM Subject: [lace] Copyright -- again :) On Thursday, Aug 28, 2003, at 10:25 US/Eastern, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Devon)wrote: I had the interesting experience of writing an article for the IOL Bulletin and later receiving a request to translate it into German for publication in a German Lace Mag. I had no idea what the legal status of this request was. I had no objection to it being republished. In fact, I was flattered. I asked the IOL and they had no idea whether their permission was required, but said they had no objection. In general, for anything you publish in IOLI, you keep the copyright (probably because, while you get a thank you of some sort, you do not get *paid*. I wonder if I should be reporting my extra copies of the Bulletin and/or the thank-you bobbins to IRS, and pay taxes on them???), and their permision to republish (in English or any other language) is not needed, if someone else wants the article/pattern. Competition entries are a bit of a gray area, because, when you enter, you sign the permission for first dibs to go to IOLI -- the pattern/etc is still yours, and you can publish it anywhere you want, but only if IOLI is not interested in publishing it *first*. I always assume that anything I send for a publication in a magazine, is free for all, without any copyright issues involved; if Robin wants to copy a pattern for every member of her guild, I have no objection -- quite the opposite :) I used to get asked permission about reprints/copies, and responding was more trouble than it was worth, so then I tried putting in something like feel free to make copies, but give credit to me for designing with the patterns. I should have added: and let me know you've done so, as my reward; a pattern got reproduced, I only heard about it from third parties -- a lot of bad feelings all around :) I was also -- once -- asked to *sell* a pattern, and the woman had a hard time taking a no for the answer. It was the Swan (what else g). I told her it had been published in IOLI -- her customers don't subscribe to it (she was Swedish, I think)... I told her it was available to anyone who wanted it on a website -- her customers didn't know a URL from a U-Haul... I finally said that I wasn't ready to enter the tax quagmire for the cut I might be expected to get, and she gave up pestering me... For all I know, she'd found the website, printed it off, and is peddling the pattern to the un-clued. If she does, I think I'd be irritated a bit to learn about it, though it would be an irrational feeling -- I don't mind people copying for their (and/or ther friends') use; I don't mind people making up a pattern in a 100 copies to sell (either for personal profit or for the benefit of a charity), so why stick at someone copying a pattern to sell? All I can say is that, to me, it would not be honourable... To change the subject *slightly*... In many-messages-ago, Clay asked how one could possibly measure the 15-20% of skew, when it came to an original (artistic) design... Well, I know at least one person who'd done it *mathematically* :) Bought a cross-stitch kit, which depicted a sail-boat on a calm sea. Changed the *direction* in which the pennant was flying (so, OK, it no longer made sense from the *physics* perspective; but there's such a thing as artistic extension g), and entered it as an original design in a county crafts fair. Won, too, I seem to remember. And very proud of herself, for being so clever -- between the boat and the sea, the area of the pennant was well above the 15%... Takes all kinds :) Perhaps the IOL is missing a bet. It should have Tom write a regular feature called Copyright Corner Not a bad idea. Though Uncle Tom's Corner seems an inescapable title for the column and I doubt he'd like it :) - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
At 01:23 AM 8/29/03 -0400, Tamara P. Duvall wrote: In many-messages-ago, Clay asked how one could possibly measure the 15-20% of skew, when it came to an original (artistic) design... You don't. If I change it X%, then it's mine is one of the most-persistent of the myths listed at http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/LINKS/TEXT/COPYRIGH.TXT I would appreciate any comments or corrections. -- Joy Beeson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/ http://home.earthlink.net/~beeson_n3f/ west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A. where it's raining and doesn't look as though it plans to let up any time soon, but partly cloudy is predicted for Labor Day Weekend. (Which features fireworks this year, thanks to a thunderstorm last July.) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
This reminds me of something my husband used to say to me when I used to say well, at least it keeps me out of the bars. He would always reply I wish you'd go to the bar, at least someone might buy you a drink, when was the last time someone bought you some thread or bobbins. LOL Patsy A. Goodman - Original Message - . It is a great hobby, keeps DW out of the bars and off the street, and is far less expensive than shopping. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
Joy, one should never quote themselves. The skew, using your words is a factual question and would go to a jury. Whether Buck's pricking of the Channer Mat is even copyrightable by Bean or Buck is a thorny legal question, since Channer had published the mat previously and it was already in the public domain. However, as to the mat. I thought is was a place mat for dinner but a bathmat may be more appropriate. The question is not as simple or straightforward as some have claimed on their web sites. Let me give you an example. In Harper and Rowe v. Nations 471 U.S. 539 the Supreme Court of the United States said the following: [17] The Senate Report confirms that Congress intended the unpublished nature of the work to figure prominently in fair use analysis. In discussing fair use of photocopied materials in the classroom the Committee Report states: A key, though not necessarily determinative, factor in fair use is whether or not the work is available to the potential user. If the work is out of print and unavailable for purchase through normal channels, the user may have more justification for reproducing it. And again in Twentieth Century Music Corp. v. Aiken: The immediate effect of our copyright law is to secure a fair return for an author's creative labor. But the ultimate aim is, by this incentive, to stimulate [the creation of useful works] for the general public good. Economists who have addressed the issue believe the fair use exception should come into play only in those situations in which the market fails or the price the copyright holder would ask is near zero. See, e.g., T. Brennan, Harper Row v. The Nation, Copyrightability and Fair Use, Dept. of Justice Economic Policy Office Discussion Paper 13-17 (1984); Gordon, Fair Use as Market Failure: A Structural and Economic Analysis of the Betamax Case and its Predecessors, 82 Colum.L.Rev. 1600, 1615 (1982). Then as to percent change there is this from the Court: The copyright owner's rights, however, are subject to certain statutory exceptions. §§ 107-118. Among these is § 107, which codifies the traditional privilege of other authors to make fair use of an earlier writer's work. [ In addition, no author may copyright facts or ideas. § 102. The copyright is limited to those aspects of the work -- termed expression -- that display the stamp of the author's originality. Yet copyright does not prevent subsequent users from copying from a prior author's work those constituent elements that are not original -- for example, quotations borrowed under the rubric of fair use from other copyrighted works, facts, or materials in the public domain -- as long as such use does not unfairly appropriate the author's original contributions. Ibid.; A. Latman, Fair Use of Copyrighted Works (1958), reprinted as Study No. 14 in Copyright Law Revision Studies Nos. 1416, prepared for the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, 86th Cong., 2d Sess., 7 (1960) (hereinafter Latman). Perhaps the controversy between the lower courts in this case over copyrightability is more aptly styled a dispute over whether The Nation's appropriation of unoriginal and uncopyrightable elements encroached on the originality embodied in the work as a whole. Perhaps because the fair use doctrine was predicated on the author's implied consent to reasonable and customary use when he released his work for public consumption, fair use traditionally was not recognized as a defense to charges [p*551] of copying from an author's as yet unpublished works. ? Ô Under common law copyright, the property of the author . . . in his intellectual creation [was] absolute until he voluntarily part[ed] with the same. American Tobacco Co. v. Werckmeister, 207 U.S. 284, 299 (1907); 2 Nimmer § 8.23, at 8-273. This absolute rule, however, was tempered in practice by the equitable nature of the fair use doctrine. In a given case, factors such as implied consent through de facto publication on performance or dissemination of a work may tip the balance of equities in favor of prepublication use. See Copyright Law Revision -- Part 2: Discussion and Comments on Report of the Register of Copyrights on General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law, 88th Cong., 1st Sess., 27 (H.R. Comm. Print 1963) (discussion suggesting works disseminated to the public in a form not constituting a technical publication should nevertheless be subject to fair use); 3 Nimmer § 13.05, at 13-62, n. [17] The Senate Report confirms that Congress intended the unpublished nature of the work to figure prominently in fair use analysis. In discussing fair use of photocopied materials in the classroom the Committee Report states: A key, though not necessarily determinative, factor in fair use is whether or not the work is available to the potential user. If the work is out of print and unavailable for purchase through normal channels, the user may have more justification for reproducing it. . And again in Twentieth
[lace] Copyright/Publishing
My publisher told me that the break-even point for book sales/publishing costs is 300 copies, and they won't normally publish anything unless they can sell at least that number. Obviously they want to sell more to make a profit, but the philosophy of the company is that even a small interest group should be able to buy books of interest to them. So, provided some books make a profit, they publish others they think worthy, even if they know they're unlikely to sell 300. I own the copyright on the contents of my books, which are digrammatic patterns and instructions on how to make various things for horses and riders. Although I'd be a bit peeved if someone copied the patterns and passed them on to their friends, I've got no objection to anyone setting up a cottage industry making horse rugs. They won't make a fortune because, like the lace world, the amateur horse world is relatively small, but if I've enabled someone to earn a few bob they wouldn't otherwise have been able to earn, then good luck to them. Jean in Poole - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright legacy
Marcie wrote: A greedy (or uncaring) publisher or uncaring (or hateful) relative could bury our work in much the same way as Miss Channer's work is being buried... for nearly 3/4 of a century after we die, or longer if a corporation can get hold of the copyright! I appreciate Vivienne and other's wish to make a fair return on their work and I would never advocate copying a *living* author's work, but for heaven's sake do you really want your *legacy* consigned to obscurity at the whim of someone else? If you register your book for Public Lending Right in the UK (an author is paid an extremely small pittance every time a book is borrowed from a public library to make up for loss of royalties) there is a reminder that you need to assign this to a person or organisation in your will. I contacted a lawyer friend, and asked about copyright. As a result, in my will my Public Lending Right, any royalties being earned if my books are still in print, and the copyright on them are assigned to the British Heart Foundation (a charity researching into heart disease) on my death, purely because DH survived 2 heart attacks. That way someone continues to benefit regardless of what the publisher or my relatives want. It's my right to decide. It's not a lot in monetary terms, but every little helps. I don't think many authors or artists have thought that their work forms part of their estate and therefore don't think about including it in their will. Jean in Poole - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] copyright issues
Hi everyone This is indeed 'ein weites Feld' and a topic that rears its head at least once a year on arachne, or so it seems ;) Robin wrote: Bev brings up something I've wondered about. If I buy the magazine with her design in it, would it violate copyright if I let my friend(s) copy her pattern? No, it doesn't violate copyright as far as I'm concerned, and I would consider it 'fair use'. . The pattern is copyright the designer, but not - at least not in the case of Canadian Lacemaker Gazette - not the property of the magazine itself. The pattern can be copied many times over for personal use - including giving to your friends - but not published somewhere else without the permission of the designer, and certainly not as someone else as the designer, and more importantly shall not be *sold* as such. How can this be policed? We rely on the likeminded principles of others. Admittedly, on one hand it would be nice for the magazine if everyone bought their own copy, but on the other hand - if several people are sharing the magazine, the purpose of the publication (as a vehicle to communicate information about lacemaking) is furthered - - it isn't as though it is a huge profit-making venture. Lace groups subscribe to the magazine, and other magazines like it, and one would assume group members borrow the magazines. They could photocopy what interests them in general, and will photocopy patterns for their own use in particular. I design little patterns for the fun of it, and am pleased if others enjoy them. I think this is the same for all who contribute their designs to our non-profit lace magazines. As an aside, I consider the photocopy machine a bonafide lace tool :) I have been asked by authors of articles that I've published in the Gazette to release permission for the article to be published somewhere else - this is no matter of the Gazette's. The author may publish their article anywhere they like. However, given the smallness of the lace community, and if I'm so asked, I suggest they change the article somewhat, in fairness to readers who have seen it already in the first publication. Some magazines have a policy of publishing only first-time articles; they do not like to publish something that has already appeared somewhere else (I don't know if that is a copyright issue, or just the organizations's policy). I've been nosing around checking out 'Mars' information sites - the National Research Council of Canada encourages use of the information at its site, with a few provisions - I think the wording is excellent for describing fair use. If anyone is interested, the info is here: http://www.hia-iha.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/notices_e.html -- bye for now Bev in Sooke, BC (west coast of Canada) and editor of Canadian Lacemaker Gazette http://www.lacegazette.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
