[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata in C Major - source?
So the anonymous composer might be a member of the nobility, or/and a
woman. Or it is a piracy of some kind
Regards
Stephan
Von meinem Samsung Galaxy Smartphone gesendet.
Ursprüngliche Nachricht
Von: Albert Reyerman
Datum: 03.06.18 07:54 (GMT+01:00)
An: Roman Turovsky , Luca Manassero
Cc: lute net
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata in C Major - source?
Conradi edition
New Pieces for the Lute
as Preludes, Allemands, Courants,
Giques, Menuets, etc.
Frankurt an der Oder
by Johann Gottfried CONRADI
1724
Johann Gottfried Conradi,
a known publisher from 1713 to 1735
in Frankfurt an der Oder
(a city situated at the river Oder,
about 50 km east of Berlin, Germany)
The frontispice and the preface of the edition
of music for 11-course lute from 1724 makes it
very clear, that he is a publisher who offers
this edition to the lovers of the lute (beeing
not too many) and that he would be pleased to
publish more music, also for 13 course lute,
if there would be any demand.
The composer still is unknown to us till today.
Albert Reyerman
TREE EDITION
Albert Reyerman
Finkenberg 89
23558 Luebeck
Germany
albertreyer...@kabelmail.de
www.tree-edition.com
0451 899 78 48
---
Fine Art Paintings
Anke Reyerman
www.anke-reyerman.de
Am 02.06.2018 um 23:28 schrieb Roman Turovsky:
> It seems the consensus is that Conradi was the publisher, but not the
> composer,
> who remains unidentified.
> RT
>
>
> On 6/2/2018 12:23 PM, Luca Manassero wrote:
>> Thank you, Ed.
>> In the meantime I got a few copies, but I'll order the facsimile
by
>> Tree Editions. I knew Conradi already, but wasn't aware that we
have
>> such a tiny bit of his music.
>> Luca
>> On sab, 02 giu 2018 14:07:30 +0200 Edward Martin
>> wrote
>>
>> You are correct Luca, Tree editions has the book. There are 3
basic
>> works, a suite in C Major, a suite in A major, and 2 incidental
>> pieces
>> in d minor. It is indeed fabulous music, and it is frustrating
that
>> there are not more pieces.
>> ed
>> On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 4:33 AM Luca Manassero
>> <[1]l...@manassero.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>Dear Lute list,
>>
>> I suddenly felt in love with the Conradi Sonata in C
>> Major as
>>
>>Roberto Barto plays it in this
>>
>>video: [1][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
>>
>>Can anybody please point me to the right facsimile or
>> manuscript for
>>
>>it?
>>
>>Is it the Leipzig III.10.34 reprinted by Tree Editions?
>>
>>Thank you in advance,
>>
>>Luca
>>
>>--
>>
>> References
>>
>>1. [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>
>> [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>> --
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:l...@manassero.net
>> 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
>> 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
>> 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>
>
>
> .
>
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata in C Major - source?
Conradi edition New Pieces for the Lute as Preludes, Allemands, Courants, Giques, Menuets, etc. Frankurt an der Oder by Johann Gottfried CONRADI 1724 Johann Gottfried Conradi, a known publisher from 1713 to 1735 in Frankfurt an der Oder (a city situated at the river Oder, about 50 km east of Berlin, Germany) The frontispice and the preface of the edition of music for 11-course lute from 1724 makes it very clear, that he is a publisher who offers this edition to the lovers of the lute (beeing not too many) and that he would be pleased to publish more music, also for 13 course lute, if there would be any demand. The composer still is unknown to us till today. Albert Reyerman TREE EDITION Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany albertreyer...@kabelmail.de www.tree-edition.com 0451 899 78 48 --- Fine Art Paintings Anke Reyerman www.anke-reyerman.de Am 02.06.2018 um 23:28 schrieb Roman Turovsky: It seems the consensus is that Conradi was the publisher, but not the composer, who remains unidentified. RT On 6/2/2018 12:23 PM, Luca Manassero wrote: Thank you, Ed. In the meantime I got a few copies, but I'll order the facsimile by Tree Editions. I knew Conradi already, but wasn't aware that we have such a tiny bit of his music. Luca On sab, 02 giu 2018 14:07:30 +0200 Edward Martin wrote You are correct Luca, Tree editions has the book. There are 3 basic works, a suite in C Major, a suite in A major, and 2 incidental pieces in d minor. It is indeed fabulous music, and it is frustrating that there are not more pieces. ed On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 4:33 AM Luca Manassero <[1]l...@manassero.net> wrote: Dear Lute list, I suddenly felt in love with the Conradi Sonata in C Major as Roberto Barto plays it in this video: [1][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU Can anybody please point me to the right facsimile or manuscript for it? Is it the Leipzig III.10.34 reprinted by Tree Editions? Thank you in advance, Luca -- References 1. [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:l...@manassero.net 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html .
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata in C Major - source?
Basically the same as for David Kellner selection of lute pieces?
Luca
On sab, 02 giu 2018 23:28:32 +0200 Roman Turovsky
wrote
It seems the consensus is that Conradi was the publisher, but not the
composer,
who remains unidentified.
RT
On 6/2/2018 12:23 PM, Luca Manassero wrote:
> Thank you, Ed.
> In the meantime I got a few copies, but I'll order the facsimile by
> Tree Editions. I knew Conradi already, but wasn't aware that we have
> such a tiny bit of his music.
> Luca
> On sab, 02 giu 2018 14:07:30 +0200 Edward Martin
> <[1]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> You are correct Luca, Tree editions has the book. There are 3 basic
> works, a suite in C Major, a suite in A major, and 2 incidental
pieces
> in d minor. It is indeed fabulous music, and it is frustrating that
> there are not more pieces.
> ed
> On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 4:33 AM Luca Manassero
<[1][2]l...@manassero.net>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Lute list,
>
> I suddenly felt in love with the Conradi Sonata in C Major as
>
> Roberto Barto plays it in this
>
> video: [1][2][3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
>
> Can anybody please point me to the right facsimile or manuscript for
>
> it?
>
> Is it the Leipzig III.10.34 reprinted by Tree Editions?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Luca
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [3][4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> [4][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[6]l...@manassero.net
> 2. [7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
> 3. [8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
> 4. [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
2. mailto:l...@manassero.net
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
6. mailto:l...@manassero.net
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata in C Major - source?
It seems the consensus is that Conradi was the publisher, but not the composer, who remains unidentified. RT On 6/2/2018 12:23 PM, Luca Manassero wrote: Thank you, Ed. In the meantime I got a few copies, but I'll order the facsimile by Tree Editions. I knew Conradi already, but wasn't aware that we have such a tiny bit of his music. Luca On sab, 02 giu 2018 14:07:30 +0200 Edward Martin wrote You are correct Luca, Tree editions has the book. There are 3 basic works, a suite in C Major, a suite in A major, and 2 incidental pieces in d minor. It is indeed fabulous music, and it is frustrating that there are not more pieces. ed On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 4:33 AM Luca Manassero <[1]l...@manassero.net> wrote: Dear Lute list, I suddenly felt in love with the Conradi Sonata in C Major as Roberto Barto plays it in this video: [1][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU Can anybody please point me to the right facsimile or manuscript for it? Is it the Leipzig III.10.34 reprinted by Tree Editions? Thank you in advance, Luca -- References 1. [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:l...@manassero.net 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata in C Major - source?
Thank you, Ed.
In the meantime I got a few copies, but I'll order the facsimile by
Tree Editions. I knew Conradi already, but wasn't aware that we have
such a tiny bit of his music.
Luca
On sab, 02 giu 2018 14:07:30 +0200 Edward Martin
wrote
You are correct Luca, Tree editions has the book. There are 3 basic
works, a suite in C Major, a suite in A major, and 2 incidental pieces
in d minor. It is indeed fabulous music, and it is frustrating that
there are not more pieces.
ed
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 4:33 AM Luca Manassero <[1]l...@manassero.net>
wrote:
Dear Lute list,
I suddenly felt in love with the Conradi Sonata in C Major as
Roberto Barto plays it in this
video: [1][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
Can anybody please point me to the right facsimile or manuscript for
it?
Is it the Leipzig III.10.34 reprinted by Tree Editions?
Thank you in advance,
Luca
--
References
1. [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
To get on or off this list see list information at
[4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:l...@manassero.net
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata in C Major - source?
You are correct Luca, Tree editions has the book. There are 3 basic works, a suite in C Major, a suite in A major, and 2 incidental pieces in d minor. It is indeed fabulous music, and it is frustrating that there are not more pieces. ed On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 4:33 AM Luca Manassero <[1]l...@manassero.net> wrote: Dear Lute list, I suddenly felt in love with the Conradi Sonata in C Major as Roberto Barto plays it in this video: [1][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU Can anybody please point me to the right facsimile or manuscript for it? Is it the Leipzig III.10.34 reprinted by Tree Editions? Thank you in advance, Luca -- References 1. [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:l...@manassero.net 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Daniel Winheld wrote: LP of a young Hopkinson Smith performing on the Widhalm lute- an unrestored 18 century swan-neck style 13 course instrument, miraculously in playing condition. No turntable, I actually don't know how it sounds. Quite good, on the whole, and well worth having. I think it suffers a bit from the circumstances -- museum lets musician use the instrument for a short time for a specific project, which discourage experimenting with stringing. So the extension basses are prominent and ringy and there's some clanginess to it. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
I think Schäffer's CD is re-issued on CD (http://www.amazon.com/French-Baroque-Suites-Reusner-Conradi/dp/B029VU) A great recordung which I would like to recommend wholeheartedly Thomas Daniel Winheld schrieb: And of course the fine rendition by the late Michael Schaffer of the A major suite on his recording of French Baroque Lute Suites, which was available on CD, don't think it's still in print, but used copies may be available. Definitely a must have. Dan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Yes, that's the one. The entire CD is on that high level. This is a good thread to note that many older generation, (but post heavy-lute, played with unformed or uninformed technique) are not the least bit obsolete- Chris Wilson comes first to my mind as an often exquisite player- particularly on one CD of early Italian repertoire. Last week at the music store where I work I grabbed an old LP of a young Hopkinson Smith performing on the Widhalm lute- an unrestored 18 century swan-neck style 13 course instrument, miraculously in playing condition. No turntable, I actually don't know how it sounds. If anyone really wants it, email me off list. Dan I think Schäffer's CD is re-issued on CD (http://www.amazon.com/French-Baroque-Suites-Reusner-Conradi/dp/B029VU) A great recordung which I would like to recommend wholeheartedly Thomas Daniel Winheld schrieb: And of course the fine rendition by the late Michael Schaffer of the A major suite on his recording of French Baroque Lute Suites, which was available on CD, don't think it's still in print, but used copies may be available. Definitely a must have. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
--020900070300040700030404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtpa.mediabeam.com id o0D9Or7L007645 There are two complete suites for baroque lute (and two more pieces) in the Conradi publication, that is housed now in the Leipzig Music Library (III.10.34) The pieces are engraved and printed on single sheets of paper each. The paper has a very large format: to print the TREE facsimile to a normal A4 page, I had to reduce the size to 80 % of the original. On the first page is printed: Neue Lautenstuecke, als Preludes, Allemands, Courants, Giques, Menuets, etc. Frankfurth an der Oder (the town) Bey Johann Gottfried Conradi (the publisher) Backside of the first page ,the only sheet to be printed double sided (translation into my own poor English). Cause there are not too many lovers of the lute, though these want to get often something new and curious, this may be a good news to them, that from the publisher of the present edition may be available more complete sonatas newly written for 13 courses, so that in this way could be served with more pieces of the same manner. From this, it is clear that Conradi is the publisher of the music. But no composer is mentioned. --- There have been two early recordings of the two complete suites (recorded by famous Wolf Erichson in the mid 70s on his own lable) one suite by Eugen Dombois: The Baroque Lute, Music By Kellner, Bach, Conradi, Weiss the other suite by Michael Schaeffer: French Baroque Lute Suites, DuFault, Gallot, Reusner, Conradi Both recordings are still available on SONY CLASSICAL CD ( e.g. from www.Amazon.de) The playing of both the lutenits is fantastic. I only can recommend these gems. I attach the first two pages of the Conradi print, but I am not sure of this is allowed and the lute list. Maya be , you will not get it. Albert Reyerman www.Tree-Edition.com Eugene C. Braig IV schrieb: Michael Schäffer recorded one Conradi suit along with Reusner on the German side of the LP and Gallot and DuFault on the French side. I think that was way back in the late '70s. It was a great early effort. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of albertreyer...@kabelmail.de Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:49 PM To: Daniel Winheld Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata There are more Conradi recordings: Neue Lautenstuecke Lutenist: Rainer Waldeck ww.earlymusic.com The Baroque Lute Sony CB621 Lutenist: Eugen Dombois Regards Albert TREE EDITION - Music for the Lute - Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:[1]www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 - Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft. Join The German Lute Society [3]www.lautengesellschaft.de - Daniel Winheld schrieb: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- References 1. http://www.Tree-Edition.com/ 2. mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de 3. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html . --020900070300040700030404 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN html head meta content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type title/title /head body bgcolor=#ff text=#00 There are two complete suites for baroque lute (and two more pieces)br in the Conradi publication, that is housed now in the Leipzig Music Librarybr (III.10.34) The pieces are engraved and printed on single sheets of paper each.br The paper has a very large format: to print the TREE facsimile to a normal A4 page,br I had to reduce the size to 80 % of the original.br br On the first page is printed:br Neue Lautenstuecke,br als Preludes, Allemands, Courants, Giques, Menuets, etc.br Frankfurth an der Oder (the town)br Bey Johann Gottfried Conradi (the publisher)br br Backside of the first page ,the only sheet to be printed double sidedbr (translation into my own poor English
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Michael Schaeffer actually recorded the A-major Conradi suite. I am fortuned to a have his CD - recorded from the 70's actually, he died in a care accident in a young age. Walter Gerwig had a long illness and refused western medicine intervention, because of his religious believe. I hope I did not start an other quarrel on the list. Normally I just listen, delete and practice the B- lute as much as my body can hold up Hermann Sadly it was also his last. He was already very ill during the recording and he died a few moths later. LvS Op 12 jan 2010, om 23:13 heeft Eugene C. Braig IV het volgende geschreven: Michael Schäffer recorded one Conradi suit along with Reusner on the German side of the LP and Gallot and DuFault on the French side. I think that was way back in the late '70s. It was a great early effort. Best, Eugene There are more Conradi recordings: Neue Lautenstuecke Lutenist: Rainer Waldeck ww.earlymusic.com The Baroque Lute Sony CB621 Lutenist: Eugen Dombois Regards Albert TREE EDITION - Music for the Lute - Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:[1]www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 - Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft. Join The German Lute Society [3]www.lautengesellschaft.de - Daniel Winheld schrieb: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- References 1. http://www.Tree-Edition.com/ 2. mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de 3. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Hi! A Google search on Conradi's name came up with this http://www.the-orb.net/bibliographies/st-john_bib.html 44. Author: Dithmar, Justus Christoph, 1677-1737. Vertot, abbe de, 1655-1735. Title:Geschichte des ritterlichen Johanniter-Orden : und dessen Herren-Meisterthums in der Marck, Sachsen, Pommern und Wendland / von Justus Christoph Dithmar ... Geschichte des Johanniter-Orden. Place:Franckfurth an der Oder : Publisher:Bey Johann Gottfried Conradi, Date: 1728. I think it is a bibliography about the Knights of St John. Conradi's name is given as a publisher of item 44 in the list. If this is right, I wonder what else he published? No reason a publisher should not compose lute music, of course! Best wishes martin On 11/1/10 17:31, Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net wrote: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- End of Forwarded Message To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Martin, That is true, that Conradi published books on a most varied list of subjects, such as law, medicine, botany, church history, etc. This particular book is one of them. I saw, a year ago, another book listed as having been published by Conradi. ed At 08:40 AM 1/12/2010, Martin Eastwell wrote: Hi! A Google search on Conradi's name came up with this http://www.the-orb.net/bibliographies/st-john_bib.html 44. Author: Dithmar, Justus Christoph, 1677-1737. Vertot, abbe de, 1655-1735. Title:Geschichte des ritterlichen Johanniter-Orden : und dessen Herren-Meisterthums in der Marck, Sachsen, Pommern und Wendland / von Justus Christoph Dithmar ... Geschichte des Johanniter-Orden. Place:Franckfurth an der Oder : Publisher:Bey Johann Gottfried Conradi, Date: 1728. I think it is a bibliography about the Knights of St John. Conradi's name is given as a publisher of item 44 in the list. If this is right, I wonder what else he published? No reason a publisher should not compose lute music, of course! Best wishes martin On 11/1/10 17:31, Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net wrote: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- End of Forwarded Message To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Michael Schäffer recorded one Conradi suit along with Reusner on the German side of the LP and Gallot and DuFault on the French side. I think that was way back in the late '70s. It was a great early effort. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of albertreyer...@kabelmail.de Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:49 PM To: Daniel Winheld Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata There are more Conradi recordings: Neue Lautenstuecke Lutenist: Rainer Waldeck ww.earlymusic.com The Baroque Lute Sony CB621 Lutenist: Eugen Dombois Regards Albert TREE EDITION - Music for the Lute - Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:[1]www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 - Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft. Join The German Lute Society [3]www.lautengesellschaft.de - Daniel Winheld schrieb: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- References 1. http://www.Tree-Edition.com/ 2. mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de 3. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Sadly it was also his last. He was already very ill during the recording and he died a few moths later. LvS Op 12 jan 2010, om 23:13 heeft Eugene C. Braig IV het volgende geschreven: Michael Schäffer recorded one Conradi suit along with Reusner on the German side of the LP and Gallot and DuFault on the French side. I think that was way back in the late '70s. It was a great early effort. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of albertreyer...@kabelmail.de Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:49 PM To: Daniel Winheld Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata There are more Conradi recordings: Neue Lautenstuecke Lutenist: Rainer Waldeck ww.earlymusic.com The Baroque Lute Sony CB621 Lutenist: Eugen Dombois Regards Albert TREE EDITION - Music for the Lute - Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:[1]www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 - Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft. Join The German Lute Society [3]www.lautengesellschaft.de - Daniel Winheld schrieb: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- References 1. http://www.Tree-Edition.com/ 2. mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de 3. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Sad indeed. Not Conradi, but I also like how he handled Haydn. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Lex van Sante Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:39 PM To: lute mailing list list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata Sadly it was also his last. He was already very ill during the recording and he died a few moths later. LvS Op 12 jan 2010, om 23:13 heeft Eugene C. Braig IV het volgende geschreven: Michael Schäffer recorded one Conradi suite along with Reusner on the German side of the LP and Gallot and DuFault on the French side. I think that was way back in the late '70s. It was a great early effort. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of albertreyer...@kabelmail.de Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:49 PM To: Daniel Winheld Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata There are more Conradi recordings: Neue Lautenstuecke Lutenist: Rainer Waldeck ww.earlymusic.com The Baroque Lute Sony CB621 Lutenist: Eugen Dombois Regards Albert TREE EDITION - Music for the Lute - Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:[1]www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 - Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft. Join The German Lute Society [3]www.lautengesellschaft.de - Daniel Winheld schrieb: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- References 1. http://www.Tree-Edition.com/ 2. mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de 3. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Dear Ed, Thanks a lot. This is extremely helpful and interesting as it sheds light on this confusing Conradi matter. I hope to listen to your recording someday! Regards, Nicolás -Mensaje original- De: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] En nombre de Edward Martin Enviado el: lunes, 11 de enero de 2010 12:25 Para: Nicolás Valencia; 'Daniel Shoskes' CC: 'LuteNet list'; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Asunto: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata Dear Nicolas and all, Thanks for inquiring about Conradi. You care correct, in that the pieces are from the 1724 edition.However, they are not by Johann Melchior or Johann Georg Conradi; they were published by Johann Gottfried Conradi, presumably the son of Johann Georg and brother to Johann Melchior Conradi. Whether or not Johann Gottfried was the composer is unclear, but he was the publisher. Prior to Art Ness' research, nothing was known about him. A year ago, I recorded the complete Conradi book, and in this CD, the program notes were composed partly by me, and Arthur Ness. Here are the notes from the CD, pertaining to what Art Nress discovered about Conradi: Two worthy exceptions are the compositions for eleven-course lute by Johann Gottfried Conradi from his Neue Lauten-Stücke als Preludes, Allemands, Courants, Gigues, Menuets etc. (Frankfurt an der Oder: Conradi, 1724), and by David Kellner from his XVI. [recte: XVII.] Auserlesene Lautenstücke bestehend in Phantasien, Chaconnen, Rondeau, Giga, Pastorel, Passe pied, Campanella, Sarabande, Aria Gavotte (Hamburg: Brandt, 1747). Little is known about Conradi. He was most likely a member of a dynastic family of musicians. No less than four persons named Johann Gottfried Conradi were prominently involved with music. One (1702-1776) was Danish royal mouth and tooth physician and a composer of popular operas. Another one (1820-1896) was a conductor, composer of choral music and author of a history of Norwegian music. Our Johann Gottfried (d. 1747) was most likely the son of the most famous musical Conradi, Johann Georg (1645-1699). He was director of music at the Bavarian court at Oettingen-Oettingen, but took leave between 1690 and 1698 to serve as director of the Theater am Gänsemarkt in Hamburg, the most important opera house in Germany. He was responsible for introducing and establishing the French operatic style in Germany. His troupe included the teenage Johann Mattheson who assisted at rehearsals and often took to the boards (before his voice broke, he sang female parts). A recent revival of Conradi's long lost opera Adriane enjoyed considerable critical acclaim. For many years the opera was known only from some arrangements of arias for Hamburger cithrinchen, attesting to the operas popular appeal. His son Johann Melchior succeeded him as music director in Oettingen-Oettingen. Our Conradi was principally occupied as a prolific publisher of learned works in medicine, botany, law, politics, geography, metaphysics, church history, etc. He was also a respondent to a dissertation on hydrope pectoris (dropsy) from the Viadrina, the university at Frankfurt an der Oder, suggesting that he held faculty status. Accordingly as a musician he surely must have collaborated with a distinguished student at the Viadrina from 1733 to 1738, the most famous and most prolific of the Bach sons, Carl Philipp Emmanuel Bach. While at the university, he (CPE Bach) supported himself as a harpsichord teacher and as director of various musical academies at the university. His works written at Frankfurt include nearly 30 solo-, duo-, and trio-sonatas, harpsichord concertos, etc., many intended for his own performance. Conradi could hardly have missed such youthful musical exuberance in his midst. The pieces contained in Conradi's book have many stylistically unique features. Although it is unclear if Conradi was the composer as well as publisher, the pieces seem to be composed by the same person and are of very high quality. At this point, we will have to consider the composer of these charming pieces to be anonymous, since we cannot establish whether the composer and publisher are one and the same. Surely they utilize many beautiful features, arpeggiation, long phrasing, thematic similarities, and surprising turns of harmony. The d minor Courante has a stunning effect: it begins in d minor, and the first section ends in the dominant A major, but commences into the next section with an opening statement in the distant key of F major. The effect is surprising, but gentle. The Suite in A Major achieves something seldom heard in other lute pieces in the same key. Whereas A major usually emits feelings of joy, stimulation or excitement, the A major pieces in this suite evoke feelings of tears and sadness. In particular the Allemande can only be characterized as filled with remorse
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
From: Peter Martin peter.l...@gmail.com There was a gentleman named Igor a little while ago, who was not afraid to offer adverse (rude, actually) opinions on YouTube lute videos. He was hounded off the list as a troll. Nobody has dared say anything since. P I believe I have taken umbrage at the quality of T.Satoh's recorded playing, on a number of occasions. RT == http://polyhymnion.org/swv Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes. 2010/1/10 Franz Mechsner [1]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk A little observation: as a rule, all performances are commented with exalted praize only (Welldonewonderful...) plus silence on anything which might be improved or on which one might be of different opinion - in strong contrast to the discussions where we can learn so much from each other... -- -- References 1. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
and honest but polite or at least respectful at the same time. I think we protect ourselves in the first place saying we are so unsecure and so far away from being an expert that we cannot utter anything... For instance I mostly do not really dare or bother to tell the waiter criticism about the meal, not to speak about wine, even if I really did not enjoy it, because I am not an expert fearing that actually the meal and/or wine might be absolutely o.k. like that... one feels so unsecure, but of course openly tells one's neighbours and compalins to THEM (what does this tell us???) ... hm... About a year ago I realized only in the evening that my trousers' fly had been open all afternoon. Many people MUST have seen it, but nobody told me. I sweared to myself if I would see somebody in the same situation I would tell him or her. I actually did so once or twice... but recently there was an extremely beautiful and tastefully clothed woman standing a little apart from me in the train, with her fly open, not so really wide, but visible... I did not dare to approach her and tell her, and said to myself why don't I pretend going to the loo and tell her on the way... I did not dare... of course with billions of reasons and excuses in my head telling me why I should NOT tell her... so I fear she had to realize the thing only in the evening, like my self once upon a time... But how to correct oneself and improve if NOBODY says ANYTHING... instead people create a not-so-comfortable social situation which you cannot really understand but you feel it... that's always the big problem with us, actively and passively. Hope that is not so diverting from the lute. F Dr. Franz Mechsner Hanse Institute for Advanced Study Lehmkuhlenbusch 4 D-27753 Delmenhorst/Bremen GERMANY E-mail: [3]franz.mechs...@unn.ac.uk Phone: +49 (0)4221 9160-215 Fax: +49 (0)4221 9160-179 __ Von: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu im Auftrag von chriswilke Gesendet: Mo 11.01.2010 01:31 An: Ed Durbrow; Daniel Shoskes; LuteNet list; Franz Mechsner Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata Hi Franz, I always try to include some positive constructive criticism when I comment on people's things. This is tough to do, though. Things must be worded very carefully in print or the most well-meaning advice can sound just mean. Of course, there's always a good glob of personal preference in there as well. Chris --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Franz Mechsner [5]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk wrote: From: Franz Mechsner [6]franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata To: Ed Durbrow [7]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp, Daniel Shoskes [8]kidneykut...@gmail.com, LuteNet list [9]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 9:44 PM A little observation: as a rule, all performances are commented with exalted praize only (Welldonewonderful...) plus silence on anything which might be improved or on which one might be of different opinion - in strong contrast to the discussions where we can learn so much from each other... -- To get on or off this list see list information at [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://lutegroup.ning.com/ 2. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 3. mailto:franz.mechs...@unn.ac.uk 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 6. mailto:franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk 7. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 8. mailto:kidneykut...@gmail.com 9. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Well, let me just say that I really appreciate the videos you and others put up. I come across some interesting lute repertoire that I may or may not transcribe for guitar ... and some of this music puts me one more step towards ordering a Liuto Forte. Thanks! Best, Mark -Original Message- From: Daniel Shoskes kidneykut...@gmail.com To: Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk Cc: chriswilke chriswi...@yahoo.com; Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp; LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:44 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata Ok, I started the ball rolling and was going to let it rest, but I feel compelled to make a few comments (realizing that this discussion is now across 2 threads). 1) Franz, please do have the courage of your convictions. You made a comment that was intended to be critical, even if couched in indirect terms ( I realize this group includes many non-native English speakers, but I think the most appropriate internet term is snarky). Either you don't like amateurs posting about their videos or, feeling insecure about criticizing them yourself, you wish others would do so on the group. It's OK, I'm a big boy with a thick skin. You mentioned academic criticism in the other thread; I think you'll find that the lute amateur world is populated by many people with advanced degrees and training in other fields that has not left them fragile to both constructive and harsh words. There are at least 2 other surgeons I know who play seriously on baroque lute (in addition to several other doctors and lawyers) and you know that our egos are second to none! 2) I've posted before about my reasons for making utube videos and I'm not going to rehash it all again (the archives has a good search function). In brief, it's an excellent tool for self examination, for sharing my playing with friends who will likely never see me play in person and, as someone who gets to play in real concerts maybe once or twice a year, a great motivation to work on new rep. There is no doubt that putting lute videos out in the ether also introduces people to the instrument for the first time and I've had much correspondence from people interested in trying the lute after seeing my videos. And there IS the ego stroking component, I've never been ashamed to admit that. Also, like David with his facial expressions, I've picked up that I breathe too heavily, sometimes sway too much and pinch courses together with my left hand when I barre, none of which I would have been able to tell without regular lessons or the videos. 3) Public comments posted in youtube are seldom helpful (either good or bad). I couldn't care less that some people are offended by the light bouncing off my bald head, or (sorry Franz) that they don't like me reading from a score having a stiff elderly demeanor (sorry, in my profession stiff and elderly don't often go together). Similarly, when people have commented how great I am and that my playing is better than Barto, I know it's not true. I thank them and then refer them to videos and recordings that really ARE great. On the other hand, I have received many private messages, from both amateurs and professionals, that had very helpful and constructive criticism. I know I have a long way to go on the instrument, but looking at my videos from 2 years ago, 1 year ago and 6 months ago, I feel that I've made progress. 4) Can watching yourself play lead to self improvement or does it just reinforce bad technique? Everyone's different. Watching myself, I think that the major things I need to work on are a) consistent tone production, especially controlling the difference in attack between gut and synthetic in the basses b) more horizontal playing of longer lines, with greater use of dynamic control and a lighter touch on the less important notes c) rapid release of tension in the right hand fingers to allow greater speed in the faster dance movements d) holding notes longer in the left hand when doing so creates effective harmonies and suspensions e) these are the general themes; each piece or style will have it's own deficiencies (eg. more variety in the inegale for the French baroque music (thanks Wilke!), a freer strum on my baroque guitar) 5) There are many subscribers to my utube channel who presumably are interested when I have new videos. Consequently I haven't posted to this list every time there is a new one and tried to be selective (I post more on the baroque lute list about baroque specific issues). I thought my 11 course gut vs 13 course synthetic video would be relevant given the multiple discussions about pros and cons of models and strings. I also thought that so few people have heard Conradi's music, that an intro might be fun. 6) Finally
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Daniel, I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... Interestingly, it talks about an aria transcribed for cithrinchen (a lute-like instrument popular in Hamburg in the late 17th century) by Johann Georg. This is something new to me too, as I didn't know this instrument either (I've read it's some kind of bell-shaped cittern). Regards, Nicolás To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
A facsimile of the Conradi Lute music is available from TREE EDITION www.Tree-Edition.com Nicolás Valencia schrieb: Daniel, I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... Interestingly, it talks about an aria transcribed for cithrinchen (a lute-like instrument popular in Hamburg in the late 17th century) by Johann Georg. This is something new to me too, as I didn't know this instrument either (I've read it's some kind of bell-shaped cittern). Regards, Nicolás To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html .
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
There are more Conradi recordings: Neue Lautenstuecke Lutenist: Rainer Waldeck ww.earlymusic.com The Baroque Lute Sony CB621 Lutenist: Eugen Dombois Regards Albert TREE EDITION - Music for the Lute - Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:[1]www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 - Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft. Join The German Lute Society [3]www.lautengesellschaft.de - Daniel Winheld schrieb: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- References 1. http://www.Tree-Edition.com/ 2. mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de 3. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
And of course the fine rendition by the late Michael Schaffer of the A major suite on his recording of French Baroque Lute Suites, which was available on CD, don't think it's still in print, but used copies may be available. Definitely a must have. Dan -- Rachel Winheld 820 Colusa Avenue Berkeley, CA 94707 rwinh...@comcast.net Tel 510.526.0242 Cell 510.915.4276 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
To repeat my comments to the group (since I replied privately inadvertently), I thought the music quite lovely, and very nicely played. Franz's point concerning the absence of constructive critical commentary may be pertinent. Since I'm working on Renaissance lute only, and am not familiar with Baroque lute literature or technique, I'll leave it to other Baroque players to consider Franz's point. Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Hi Franz, I always try to include some positive constructive criticism when I comment on people's things. This is tough to do, though. Things must be worded very carefully in print or the most well-meaning advice can sound just mean. Of course, there's always a good glob of personal preference in there as well. Chris --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk wrote: From: Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata To: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp, Daniel Shoskes kidneykut...@gmail.com, LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 9:44 PM A little observation: as a rule, all performances are commented with exalted praize only (Welldonewonderful...) plus silence on anything which might be improved or on which one might be of different opinion - in strong contrast to the discussions where we can learn so much from each other... -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
To make that clear: My criticism (if it was one at all) was not to the music, which I cannot really judge but enjoyed - maybe apart from the non-enthusiastic face and the eyes heavily occupied with reading the music... hm... but a certain kind of introvert elderly stiffness, seriousness and not-so-touching-the audience appeareance seems unfortunately wide-spread in lutenists (more than in normal classical musicians?). I love to see and feel the will to connect to the audience, I love to see that the player has an intelligent sovereign personal understanding of the music (sentipensando is a lovely word here) which he wants to share with the audience, I love warmhearted intelligent entertainment... so better close your eyes sometimes... Hm... there seems to rumour a devil inside me, I actually consider the baroque lute a monster, I imagine it is awfully difficult to master and as a result the liuto forte sounds better :-) ... apart from some extraordinary players... anyway, my point was that intelligent and insightful comments to the music are extremely helpful for understanding better and improve one's own (in my case humble) playing. That's why I like to attend masterclasses with teachers who really know to comment on music and playing, which is an art in itself and far from easy, I know. Franz Dr. Franz Mechsner Hanse Institute for Advanced Study Lehmkuhlenbusch 4 D-27753 Delmenhorst/Bremen GERMANY E-mail: [1]franz.mechs...@unn.ac.uk Phone: +49 (0)4221 9160-215 Fax: +49 (0)4221 9160-179 __ Von: nedma...@aol.com [mailto:nedma...@aol.com] Gesendet: So 10.01.2010 22:54 An: franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk; edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp; kidneykut...@gmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: Re: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata To repeat my comments to the group (since I replied privately inadvertently), I thought the music quite lovely, and very nicely played. Franz's point concerning the absence of constructive critical commentary may be pertinent. Since I'm working on Renaissance lute only, and am not familiar with Baroque lute literature or technique, I'll leave it to other Baroque players to consider Franz's point. Ned -- References 1. mailto:franz.mechs...@unn.ac.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Hi Chris, It's not only about the lute... The issue is really important and goes deep - how to be open and honest but polite or at least respectful at the same time. I think we protect ourselves in the first place saying we are so unsecure and so far away from being an expert that we cannot utter anything... For instance I mostly do not really dare or bother to tell the waiter criticism about the meal, not to speak about wine, even if I really did not enjoy it, because I am not an expert fearing that actually the meal and/or wine might be absolutely o.k. like that... one feels so unsecure, but of course openly tells one's neighbours and compalins to THEM (what does this tell us???) ... hm... About a year ago I realized only in the evening that my trousers' fly had been open all afternoon. Many people MUST have seen it, but nobody told me. I sweared to myself if I would see somebody in the same situation I would tell him or her. I actually did so once or twice... but recently there was an extremely beautiful and tastefully clothed woman standing a little apart from me in the train, with her fly open, not so really wide, but visible... I did not dare to approach her and tell her, and said to myself why don't I pretend going to the loo and tell her on the way... I did not dare... of course with billions of reasons and excuses in my head telling me why I should NOT tell her... so I fear she had to realize the thing only in the evening, like my self once upon a time... But how to correct oneself and improve if NOBODY says ANYTHING... instead people create a not-so-comfortable social situation which you cannot really understand but you feel it... that's always the big problem with us, actively and passively. Hope that is not so diverting from the lute. F Dr. Franz Mechsner Hanse Institute for Advanced Study Lehmkuhlenbusch 4 D-27753 Delmenhorst/Bremen GERMANY E-mail: [1]franz.mechs...@unn.ac.uk Phone: +49 (0)4221 9160-215 Fax: +49 (0)4221 9160-179 __ Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu im Auftrag von chriswilke Gesendet: Mo 11.01.2010 01:31 An: Ed Durbrow; Daniel Shoskes; LuteNet list; Franz Mechsner Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata Hi Franz, I always try to include some positive constructive criticism when I comment on people's things. This is tough to do, though. Things must be worded very carefully in print or the most well-meaning advice can sound just mean. Of course, there's always a good glob of personal preference in there as well. Chris --- On Sat, 1/9/10, Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk wrote: From: Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata To: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp, Daniel Shoskes kidneykut...@gmail.com, LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 9:44 PM A little observation: as a rule, all performances are commented with exalted praize only (Welldonewonderful...) plus silence on anything which might be improved or on which one might be of different opinion - in strong contrast to the discussions where we can learn so much from each other... -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:franz.mechs...@unn.ac.uk 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:46 PM, Franz Mechsner wrote: It's not only about the lute... The issue is really important and goes deep - how to be open and honest but polite or at least respectful at the same time. I think we protect ourselves in the first place saying we are so unsecure and so far away from being an expert that we cannot utter anything... Then there are others who will dismiss things out of hand as if there judgement was the last word and not take into consideration that the artist touched someone, whoever that person may be. It is very difficult. It is so much easier to say what is wrong with something than to say what is right with it and how the right things can be brought out more. There are situations that are set up for it. I pay to have a composition lesson once in a while in order to get some encouragement and practical suggestions. Usually I don't solve my immediate compositional problems but it is a kick in the pants. My teacher is very nice and always frames criticism by saying this is the effect such and such is producing, you could consider doing such and such and that would evoke such and such or something along those lines. Anybody other than a teacher doesn't really count, but I like praise and dislike criticism. Probably most people feel like that. Unless the person asks for criticism when posting a video, I take it more as a sharing thing. Some of the people here, we know either virtually or have met in person. I make no apologizes for saying well done when I see a friend do something well and appears to be making progress. If someone takes a video lesson from me, (I've done a couple) that is completely different, they have asked for help. But how to correct oneself and improve if NOBODY says ANYTHING... Lessons? Self examination?, i.e. watch the video and give yourself a lesson. instead people create a not-so-comfortable social situation which you cannot really understand but you feel it... that's always the big problem with us, actively and passively. Hope that is not so diverting from the lute. It is really a case of the emporer's new clothes. BTW, I probably check my fly 3 or 4 times before I walk into the classroom these days. :-) cheers, -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Wow! Really well done. Lots of taste and feeling. On Jan 10, 2010, at 6:27 AM, Daniel Shoskes wrote: Dear all: the very first piece of music that I heard performed live on a baroque lute was Conradi's C Major Sonata played by Bob Barto at LSA in 2003. I've finally gotten the courage to take a crack at it. Here are 3 movements: Prelude: [1][1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-cWBbgZQ2w Allemande: [2][2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOHFWPyZf_8 Menuet: [3][3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPkDIxuM_bk Danny -- References 1. [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-cWBbgZQ2w 2. [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOHFWPyZf_8 3. [6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPkDIxuM_bk To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [8]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [9]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-cWBbgZQ2w 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOHFWPyZf_8 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPkDIxuM_bk 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-cWBbgZQ2w 5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOHFWPyZf_8 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPkDIxuM_bk 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 9. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
A little observation: as a rule, all performances are commented with exalted praize only (Welldonewonderful...) plus silence on anything which might be improved or on which one might be of different opinion - in strong contrast to the discussions where we can learn so much from each other... -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
