[LUTE] Harp-Lute
Dear Rob, Congratulations on a very pleasing performance. Lucky you. I have long wanted to play such an instrument. There is an original harp-like instrument by Light - no frets and fingerboard, just harp-like strings - on sale for £3000 at Tony Bingham's shop in London. Details at http://www.oldmusicalinstruments.co.uk/instruments/instrument_list.php?cat=P S . Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Rob MacKillop Sent: 06 April 2013 20:13 To: Lute Subject: [LUTE] Harp-Lute Some of you might have a passing interest in the so-called harp-lute. Somebody gave a loan of one yesterday, by Edward Light, and also a tutor by him. I managed to knock out three tunes today. Video and more info here: [1]http://19th-centuryguitar.com/harp-lute/ Rob -- References 1. http://19th-centuryguitar.com/harp-lute/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Master of the Half Lengths
Many paintings are attributed to the so-called Master of the Half Lengths, and may be seen at [1]http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Master+of+the+half+lengths&tbm=isch &tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=2GqsUZydFOfX0QXp_4CQDg&vedDYQsAQ&biw6&bihH3 The three ladies making music together (top row, 6th painting along) are performing Claudin de Sermisy's "Jouyssance vous donneray". Does anyone know what music is being played by the other musicians, for example, the soloist (top row, 2nd painting along)? Stewart McCoy -- References 1. http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Master+of+the+half+lengths&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=2GqsUZydFOfX0QXp_4CQDg&vedDYQsAQ&biw%926&bihH3 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Master of the Half Lengths
Thanks, Arthur. I'll see if I can get hold of it. All the best, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Arthur Ness [mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net] Sent: 03 June 2013 13:58 To: Stewart McCoy Subject: Fw: "Paintings of lady concerts . . .'Jouissance'," (Imagio musicae 1 [1981]) It includes "Paintings of lady concerts . . .'Jouissance'," (Imagio musicae 1 [1981]). Colin has spent quite a bit of research time seeking out the identifications of music quoted in paintings. This is an anthology of his studies. Greetings, Arthur - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 8:02 AM Subject: "Paintings of lady concerts . . .'Jouissance'," (Imagio musicae 1 [1981])A library item you might like from worldcat.org >I thought you might be interested in this item at > http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/47225425 > > Title: Painting music in the sixteenth century : essays in > iconography > Author: H Colin Slim > Publisher: Aldershot,UK; Brookfield, USA : Ashgate, & Co.; 2002. > > ISBN/ISSN: 0860788695 9780860788690 > OCLC:47225425 > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Chord fingering
That E flat chord _a_ _b_ _b_ _c_ _d_ ___ Dan is right to say that much depends on the thickness of the end of your first finger, but I believe there are more people capable of covering all four strings of two courses with one finger, than a few double bass players with banana-like fingers. The E flat chord should ideally be played without a barré of any sort. You should aim between the second and third courses, with your first finger curved exactly as it would be if it were holding down just one course. Whenever I have said this to people in the past, their immediate reaction is, "I can't do it," and many give up at once. However, it is worth persevering. Covering four strings at a time with one fingertip is certainly daunting. At first you will probably manage to hold down the two middle strings (one string of each course), and the outside two strings make a faint, barely audible, damped noise. Be happy with that, and stick with it. Eventually, when you are not thinking about it, you will find that you are covering all four strings. A barré is not possible, because the open first course needs to sound. Half-barrés are not at all satisfactory, because the last joint of the finger is bent back the wrong way, which is not strong, and involves too much extra movement. If my fingering just won't work for you, you can try turning your left hand slightly, more as a violinist holds his hand, which enables the first finger to hold down a wider area across the strings. Turning your left hand like that can help with a chord which occurs in Galilei's intabulation of Palestrina's Vestiva i colli in _Il Fronimo_: _c__ _d_ _d_ _e_ _f_ ___ You should finger it as you would the E flat chord, with the added complication that the second joint of the first finger covers c1. That means the first finger holds down three courses - c1, d2, d3 - and the little finger is not used at all. In the Galilei intabulation, the little finger is needed for the next note: f4. In all of this, one should remember a rule I've never seen mentioned by anyone else, that you should normally put down first whichever finger is nearest to the bridge. That means, for the E flat chord or Galilei's chord, you should put down your third finger first. If you try playing these chords by putting the first finger down first, you'll never get anywhere. Stewart McCoy -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of jean-michel Catherinot Sent: 09 September 2013 13:33 To: Edward C. Yong; Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: chord fingering petit barre avec l'index; that's the canonical way. (Leroy,...). It works easily with a not wide spacing. __ De : Edward C. Yong A : Lute List Envoye le : Lundi 9 septembre 2013 12h19 Objet : [LUTE] chord fingering Hi collective wisdom of lutenists! is there a preferred fingering for this: _0_ _1_ _1_ _2_ _3_ ___ everything feels awkward :( Thanks everyone! Edward Chrysogonus Yong [1]edward.y...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Articles Needed
Dear Graham, You can acquire a legal copy of the facsimile edition of Dd.2.11 from the Lute Society via http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/catalogue . Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Graham Freeman Sent: 26 November 2013 13:28 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Articles Needed All, I'm away from my books at the moment and I wonder if anyone might be able to provide scans of the following; Ian Harwood. "A Lecture in Music", The Lute 45 (2005), 1-70 Also, I'd really like a scan of the scholarly introductory material for the new edition of the Matthew Holmes Lutebook. If anyone were able to help me out with these, I'd really appreciate it. Best, Graham Freeman To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Say love and Queen Elizabeth
Dear All, Earlier today I was accompanying Dowland's "Say love, if ever thou didst find". I remarked to the singer and gamba player, that people today often assume the song refers to Queen Elizabeth. Though not named, she is likely to be the song's "she". A similar use of the word "she" occurs in "Now, oh now I needs must part" and "Can she excuse". The titles of their instrumental settings, "The Frog Galliard" (Frog = Duc d'Alenc,on) and "The Earl of Essex Galliard", point us to the names of the characters referred to in "Now, oh now" and "Can she", which in turn suggest that the Queen must be the unnamed "she". The first few notes of "Now, oh now" match the first few notes of the well-known "Aria del Gran Duca", a piece first performed in 1589 in Florence for a Medici wedding. The Duc d'Alenc,on was the son of Marie de Medici, Queen of France, so Dowland appears to be using music for a grand duke at a successful Medici wedding in his song about a failed courtship by a different Medici grand duke. In the second part of "Now, oh now", there is a modulation to the supertonic; there is a similar modulation in the second part of "Monsieur's Almain". "Monsieur" was the name commonly used for the Duc d'Alenc,on; "Frog" was Queen Elizabeth's nickname for him. Many years ago I wrote on this list about "Now, oh now" and its associations, and there were some who were not convinced. They argued that such things were mere coincidences, yet musical references abound in music from this period. Another example is a quotation from "The Sacred End Pavan" in "Henry Unton's Funeral", showing that Henry has come to his own sacred end. Dowland's "Farewell" has links with a madrigal by Weelkes, and references to Dowland's Lachrimae for weeping (e.g. John Bennet's "Weep oh mine eyes") are ubiquitous. If the first few notes of "Now, oh now" point to the Duc d'Alenc,on, what about the first few notes of "Say love"? This afternoon I noticed that they are exactly the same as the first few notes of Dowland's "Queen Elizabeth's Galliard". Was Dowland using his own galliard to show that the song really is about the Queen? Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Say love and Queen Elizabeth
Dear Monica, Thank you for your two messages, and for correcting my mix-up of French queens. Yes, it was Catherine, not Marie, who was mother of Queen Elizabeth's "Frog". The Aria del Gran Duca was first performed at the Florentine Intermedii in 1589, and eventually became one of those tunes which everyone knew, and it turned up in many different guises. I am sure you are familiar with it yourself. Dowland visited Florence in 1595, and played the lute to Ferdinando I. He would no doubt have heard about Ferdinando's sumptuous wedding which had taken place six years earlier. He would have met Italian composers there, and it seems unlikely that the famous Aria would have passed him by. "Now, oh now" was published two years later in 1597. Catherine de' Medici was a Medici, so her son, the Duc d'Alencon, was the son of a Medici. Ferdinando I, at whose marriage the Aria was first performed, was also a Medici. There is a Medici link between Fernando and Alencon. Ferdinando was a great duke, the Gran Duca of the "Aria del Gran Duca". Alencon was also a duke, le Duc d'Alencon. Ferdinando and Alencon were both dukes. Much of what I wrote was already in the public domain, and the link between Alencon and "Now, oh now" has been accepted by most people now. What I think is a new discovery, is spotting the link between "Queen Elizabeth's Galliard" and "Say love". As with "Now, oh now", it's not just the melody notes which are the same; it's the bass and harmony which are the same too. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Monica Hall [mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: 23 January 2014 19:46 To: Stewart McCoy Cc: Lutelist Subject: Re: [LUTE] Say love and Queen Elizabeth Well - I don't know about the rest of it - but the Duc d'Alencon was the youngest son of Catherine de Medici, the wife of Henri II of France. Marie de Medici was the second wife of Henri IV and the mother of Louis XIII. The Duc d'Alencon died in 1584 and he wasn't a Medici grand duke - he was a prince of the house of Valois. The Medici wedding was between Ferdinando de Medici who was only very distantly related to Catherine and the French princess Christine of Lorraine of the Guise family. The link with Dowland seems rather tenuous. Would he even have known about the Medici wedding?. Monica - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" <[1]lu...@tiscali.co.uk> To: "Lute Net" <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 7:11 PM Subject: [LUTE] Say love and Queen Elizabeth > Dear All, > > > Earlier today I was accompanying Dowland's "Say love, if ever thou > didst find". I remarked to the singer and gamba player, that people > today often assume the song refers to Queen Elizabeth. Though not > named, she is likely to be the song's "she". > > > A similar use of the word "she" occurs in "Now, oh now I needs must > part" and "Can she excuse". The titles of their instrumental settings, > "The Frog Galliard" (Frog = Duc d'Alen,con) and "The Earl of Essex > Galliard", point us to the names of the characters referred to in "Now, > oh now" and "Can she", which in turn suggest that the Queen must be the > unnamed "she". > > > The first few notes of "Now, oh now" match the first few notes of the > well-known "Aria del Gran Duca", a piece first performed in 1589 in > Florence for a Medici wedding. The Duc d'Alenc,on was the son of Marie > de Medici, Queen of France, so Dowland appears to be using music for a > grand duke at a successful Medici wedding in his song about a failed > courtship by a different Medici grand duke. > > > In the second part of "Now, oh now", there is a modulation to the > supertonic; there is a similar modulation in the second part of > "Monsieur's Almain". "Monsieur" was the name commonly used for the Duc > d'Alenc,on; "Frog" was Queen Elizabeth's nickname for him. > > > Many years ago I wrote on this list about "Now, oh now" and its > associations, and there were some who were not convinced. They argued > that such things were mere coincidences, yet musical references abound > in music from this period. Another example is a
[LUTE] Say love and Queen Elizabeth
Dear Ron, The reactions to my email about a possible connection between Dowland's "Say love" and Queen Elizabeth's Galliard has drawn some predictable responses, including a welcome and encouraging " Fascinating. Bravo!" from Arthur. I can understand the reticence of Ralf and Howard in accepting musical allusions in the music of John Dowland. Of course there will be the same group of notes which appear in other compositions, a point Howard makes well, but are we to throw the baby out with the bath water? Some allusions are obvious, for example the notes of Swanee River appearing in Alexander's Ragtime Band, but others will be more obscure. Deciding whether a group of notes, a snippet of melody and/or harmony, is a coincidence or a deliberate allusion, is not always easy, and there will be a grey area, where some of us accept the notes as an allusion, and others see them as mere coincidence. We all draw the line in different places, some of us more cautious than others. However, I guess Dowland's use of the "Woods so wild" folk tune in "Can she excuse" has enough notes for most of us to accept as a musical allusion. Music c.1600, in particular madrigals, is full of word-painting, and some instances of it are more in evidence than others. The first four notes of Dowland's Lachrimae often appear where the text includes the word "weep". Is this an allusion to Dowland's Lachrimae, or mere coincidence? John Bennet's "Weep oh mine eyes" begins with AGFE in the bass, and with Dowland's characteristic rhythm. In John Ward's "Weep forth your tears", all six voices enter with a similar four-note descending motif, but not always with the tones and semitones in the same place. Were Bennet and Ward alluding to Dowland's Lachrimae? I think they were, because Dowland's pavan was so well known in England. However, in his book on Lachrimae, Peter Holman points out that the falling tetrachord motif occurs for moments of grief in works by Giovanni Gabrieli, Marenzio, Wert, Monteverdi, and even Josquin. On page 40 he writes, "to establish a credible connection between 'Lachrimae' and earlier compositions we need more than four notes in common." Lassus' well-known "Susanne un jour" was widely disseminated, and appeared in various guises c. 1600. Antoine Francisque included an intabulation of it at the start of his Tresor d'Orphée (Paris, 1600). We can speculate why the story of Susanna and the Elders and Lassus' setting of the words were so important at that time, but occupying first place in a collection of music is, I think, significant. The first item in Robert Dowland's Musical Banquet (London, 1610) is his father's "Sir Robert Sidney his Galliard." The first five notes are the same as Lassus' "Susanne un jour". Another setting of this galliard appears in Dd.2.11 as "Susanna Galliard", proving that the allusion to Lassus is deliberate. Diana Poulton, on page 150 of her book John Dowland, writes: "Without the use of the name 'Susanna' it might have been just possible to accept the opening phrase as a coincidence, but as it stands there can be little doubt that Dowland had the sixteenth-century _chanson_ in mind when he wrote his galliard." There is one more possible allusion which I have spotted in Dowland's music, which I don't think has been noticed before. Lassus' "Susanne un jour" also makes a cameo appearance at the start of John Dowland's First Book of Songs (London, 1597). In "Unquiet thoughts", for the words "I'll cut the string and make the hammer strike", there is an allusion to a passage towards the end of Lassus' "Susanne un jour". Mere coincidence? Perhaps, but in a world where hidden meanings abound - one has only to think of Shakespeare - I am inclined to think that there is more to music from this period than meets the eye. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ron Andrico Sent: 24 January 2014 13:09 To: R. Mattes; Stewart McCoy; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Say love and Queen Elizabeth Dear Ralf: Perhaps one is a bit hasty to pass judgement from afar on the sharpness of another person's tools without seeing the larger context of the work. I observe here and on other comment forums that it is easy to throw a good idea off-track by distracting with humorous associations. In the end, we learn fascinating historical connections through a perceptive eye, a discerning ear, and a complete immersion into the subject matter and it's context. I suppose one can find echoes of the cuckoo clock in nearly any musical phrase. Best, RA > Date: Fri,
[LUTE] Thibault MS
Dear Josef, Just in case you were unaware, there are two articles on the Thibault manuscript by Lewis Jones in _The Lute_, 1982 (part 2) and 1983 (part 1). In the 1982 article he gives transcriptions of eight pieces from the manuscript, including the Calata on fol. 53r, but not the basse danses. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Josef Berger Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 4:59 PM To: Hector Sequera ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thibault MS Hi Hector, thank you for the information. I hope that you'll be able to publish some of your research in scholarly journals, to make it more internationally accessible. I was mainly curious what you have written about the dances in the Thibault MS, and if there are any new concordances than those mentioned in Thibault 1958. I have the article by G.Thibault (Un manuscrit italien pour luth des premiA"res annA(c)es du XVIe siA"cle, pp. 43-76 in: J. Jaquot (ed.): Le luth et sa musique, Paris 1958) which contains transcriptions of pavana regia, saltarello, piva, pavana (fol.13r to 14r), a pavana (fol.25r) and a mysterious "calata" (fol.53). But Thibault (1958) did not include the basse danses of the manuscript (Basadanza, fol.15r and Spagna, fol.19v), so I was as hoping to find those somewhere.I found Sarge Gerbode's transcription of the Spagna in Thibault at [1]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/VMD/pdf/Vmd27_spagna.pdf , but not the Basadanza (which might be another version of the popular Spagna theme?) Best wishes Josef Berger 2014-07-11 16:11 GMT+02:00 Hector Sequera <[2]hectorl...@mac.com>: Dear Josef, My thesis is under contract by UMI so I cannot release it (you need to buy it via ProQuest in the USA). If you have any specific questions let me know. I am back at doing research on this topic and hope to publish something next year. All best wishes, Hector On 11 Jul 2014, at 14:57, Josef Berger <[3]harpolek...@gmail.com> wrote: > A Dear collective wisdom, > A does somebody of you have access to the thesis of Hector Sequera about > A the Thibault manuscript? Its PDF seems to be available only at the > A University of North Texas... > A [1][4]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ > A HA(c)ctor J Sequera (2004): Selected Lute Music from Paris, RA(c)s. > A Vmd. Ms. 27 from the BibliothA"que Nationale: Reconstruction, Edition, > A and Commentary. > A Best wishes from southern Sweden (which at this very moment feels > A rather than some part of Africa) > A Josef Berger > > A -- > > References > > A 1. [5]http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/VMD/pdf/Vmd27_spagna.pdf 2. mailto:hectorl...@mac.com 3. mailto:harpolek...@gmail.com 4. http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ 5. http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc4652/ 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Archives
Dear Wayne, How far back do the Lute Net Archives go? I have been trying to locate my first message to the Lute Net, which was on 8th September 1999, about the song "As I me walked", but I can't find any messages that long ago. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Archives
Dear Wayne, Thank you very much for your help. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: wayne cripps Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 6:17 PM To: Stewart McCoy Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Archives Hi Stewart - The "Official" lute mail list archives go back to the beginning, to a message from Caroline on Feb 11, 1992. These archives are in ftp form, at ftp://ftp.cs.dartmouth.edu/pub/lute (connect as guest, or "ftp") and are in multiple month files. These days you could download them all and store them on your computer for easy searching. Your message is there, in the file There are also various mail list archive sites on the web, and on Aug 29 2003 I started sending messages to mail-archive.com. Other people have signed up to send messages to other archive sites at various times. In the case of archive sites, I do not run the sites. I just direct messages that way, and the site owners do the rest. They have sometimes censored certain posts, or advertised pornography on the margins, and I have no control of that. Every message gets automatically added to the FTP archives after a week. I haven't gotten around to organizing the most recent years. Wayne On Sep 2, 2014, at 7:20 AM, Stewart McCoy wrote: Dear Wayne, How far back do the Lute Net Archives go? I have been trying to locate my first message to the Lute Net, which was on 8th September 1999, about the song "As I me walked", but I can't find any messages that long ago. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] "lute music of shakespeare's time' Newcomb
Dear Charles, This book is essentially a modern edition of William Barley, _A new Booke of Tabliture_ (London, 1596). Newcomb gives the tablature with a transcription into staff notation. His introduction uses a proper font, but all the music is copied by hand. There is a bit about Newcomb's edition at http://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-73080-3.html and about a facsimile edition of Barley's book at http://www.saulbgroen.nl/pdf/bandora.pdf (This last is followed by a description of a lute book from Mars.) There is a facsimile of Barley's book online at http://musickshandmade.com/lute/facbooks although I had problems accessing it with my computer just now. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Browne Sent: 05 April 2011 21:28 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] [lute]"lute music of shakespeare's time' Newcomb Dear lutelist. can anyone tell me whether this book is worth getting, for its music content? I understand that there was an article about it in JSTOR but I cant get it in our library and I was wondering about the book's contents thanks Charles To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] My first lute solo
Dear Êîíñòàíòèí Ùåíèêîâ, Well done for playing Queen Elizabeth's Galliard from memory. Am I right in thinking that you learned the piece from a transcription in staff notation, rather the original tablature? Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Êîíñòàíòèí Ùåíèêîâ Sent: 06 April 2011 17:02 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Net Subject: [LUTE] My first lute solo This is my first recording on lute solo. I am guitarist, I play lute 4 months. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeNbkf1u1SQ What do you think about it? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] My first lute solo
Dear Konstantin, Thanks for your message. The reason I thought you might have learned the piece from staff notation is that there is a wrong note (d1 instead of e1) which occurs four times (in bars 8, 16, 21 and 29). It is so easy to mix up accidentals when reading from staff notation - something I do frequently - but it is less likely to occur when reading from tablature. However, more important than these few notes is the overall impression of your performance, which I think is very good, and your phrasing and expression show an innate musicality. Good luck with your lute playing, and I look forward to further clips on YouTube. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Êîíñòàíòèí Ùåíèêîâ [mailto:konstantin.n...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 April 2011 12:15 To: Stewart McCoy Subject: Re: [LUTE] My first lute solo Hi, Stewart! You are partly right. In first time I played this piece on guitar from transcription. Later, when I started playing the lute I played from original tabulature. But the transcription is stuck deep in my memory what confuses me sometime. Konstantin Shchenikov To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Private lesson - s*p*a*m*m*e*r* again
Dear David, Pastor Steven contacted me too. If he arranges lessons for all the people he has contacted, Evelyn will be a busy girl. However, I would be happy to meet either or both of them on Mat 10th - a non-existent date for a non-existent Pastor and a non-existent daughter. All the best, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David van Ooijen Sent: 30 April 2011 21:44 To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: private lesson - s*p*a*m*m*e*r* again This time it's Pastor Steven fishing with his daughter as bait for your whatever's on your bank account (not much, if you're a musician ...). David -- Forwarded message -- From: pastor.steven Paul <[1]pastor.stevenpa...@yahoo.com> Date: 30 April 2011 19:34 Subject: private lesson To: Hello, How are you today?I got your contact email while searching for music or dance teacher on the internet. I have a daughter(Evelyn) who is interested studying music or dancing. Evelyn doesn't have any previous in the music but she is ready to learn.She's a 15 year old girl with a very sharp brain. she's coming down there to your location for the lessons. We base in Toronto but I just got a new job appointment in Edinburgh,UK and i want Evelyn to come over to your present location to attend the lessons before she will finally come to Edinburgh,UK to stay with me. If you have agreed to accept Evelyn as your student,please get back to me with the following information.. *Total fees for two months lessons(two hours lessons in a week) *Your teaching location and phone number. I want the lessons to start by Mat 10th. Looking forward to hearing from you. -- *** David van Ooijen [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [3]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** -- References 1. mailto:pastor.stevenpa...@yahoo.com 2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 3. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Sally Gardens
Very nice indeed. Well done. I hadn't realised that "sally" meant "willow". Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Guitar & Lute Sent: 24 May 2011 13:41 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Sally Gardens Sally Gardens from my book "The Magic Lute" performed by Trond Bengtson, this is really a wonderful wonderful performance of my arrangement and variation. Thank you so much for posting this Trond. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vgWcrEbIpE Allan www.guitarandlute.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Streaming lute gig
Musicians in the Middle Ages were strolling minstrels; lutenists play mediaeval music on a mediaeval instrument, so all lutenists must be strolling minstrels, who wander around when they play. When faced with this sort of thinking, I don't bother giving a potted history of the lute. Instead I explain that strolling minstrels strolled from one gig to the next, but when they got there, they actually sat down to play. I then ask for a chair without arms, a socket to plug in my amplifier, and free beer for the duration of the gig. It's important to give an authentic performance. Dressing up in daft outfits is a pain, and should be avoided at all costs. Charging extra for a performance in costume is a useful deterrent. You can be sure that anyone who wants you to dress up, is not interested in listening to the music. Always start with Greensleeves. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ron Andrico Sent: 06 June 2011 11:44 To: christophertstet...@gmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: streaming lute gig Chris: There is some pictorial evidence of strolling lutenists from the English masque and French ballet de cour. I'm only venturing a guess about this but perhaps the cinematic idea of the strolling lutenist came from the influence of German directors like Fritz Lang in the early days of Hollywood, incorporating echos of the Wandervogel aesthetic. Best wishes, Ron Andrico > Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 23:23:08 -0400 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: christophertstet...@gmail.com > Subject: [LUTE] Re: streaming lute gig > However, I'm wondering where the idea of the strolling lutenist comes > from. I'm not an expert, and I don't play one on TV, but I can't > recall any original pictorial or written sources indicating anyone > playing the lute and walking. Is it a 19th century romanticisation? > A pre-Raphaelite fantasy? Anyone know, or have an opinion? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] My playing
Dear Konstantin, Well done on your YouTube performance. There are many positive things you do, but you invite criticism, so here are a few thoughts, which I hope you will find helpful. Firstly your lute playing. Make sure you play every note cleanly. For example, I cannot hear e6 at the end of the second bar, although I can see that your third finger is in the correct place for it. I notice that there are places where you don't play exactly what is written. For example, you play |\ |\ |\ | |\ | a ___e__c__e___ _d___ _ _ _c___ instead of |\ |\ |\ | |\ | _ f__e__c__e___ _d___ _ _ _c___ and _e__ _a__ _c__ instead of _e__ _f__ _e__ _c__ I think it is better to stick with what Dowland wrote. You may find it easier to use a barré for |\ |\ |\ | |\ | _ 4f__3e__1c__3e___ _2d__ _ _ _1c__ Speed is a subjective matter, but I feel the song is a little too fast, and there is a feeling of rushing. The song is about love, so take your time. There are some things which need to be corrected by your singer friend. He has a nice voice well suited to lute songs, but he is singing in a foreign language, so makes a few mistakes. "Come again" needs to be more of a welcome, and one which includes the audience. His eyes need to be looking up, not glued to the music. The "t" of "delight" is lost, which is actually a very common thing with native English singers, but the "t" needs to be heard. The words "to share" should be "to hear". This is all very sensual stuff, with Dowland going through the senses, a courtship consisting of five increasingly erotic verbs: to see, to hear, to touch, to kiss, to die (which is nothing to do with death). Dowland is very careful to write crotchet rests, and, without hamming it up, it is appropriate to introduce some heavy breathing - a little audible gasp on each crotchet rest. It is very important to give the word "die" its full length (your friend clips it short each time). Many singers overlook the crotchet rest after "die", and think it is more musical to have a long, uninterrupted line, but this is not what Dowland wrote. The rests are very important, and all must be observed. The words "with they again" should be "with thee again". It is important to pronounce "th" correctly: "sympathy", not "sympa-tee", and "through", not "true". The letter "i" is not right in "sit", which your friend pronounces as "seat". The word "deadly" should sound "deddly", not "diddly". Dowland's "Come again" is one of the most erotic songs of all time. The words "come" and "die" have two meanings. If your singer friend can give more thought to the meaning of the words, sing from memory, look up, and gently seduce his audience, he will win many admirers. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Êîíñòàíòèí Ùåíèêîâ Sent: 06 June 2011 23:59 To: lute List Subject: [LUTE] My playing Hi, all Me and my friend recorded two songs by Jonn Dowland. I will be glad to know your opinions, tips. I wait criticism)) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riT4fMWnxaQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlnaVfE2-7Y Konstantin Shchenikov -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Bandora tunes
Dear Stuart, Very nice playing. It's a pleasant change to hear solos played on the bandora. I would guess that the instrument you are using has unequal fretting in some sort of meantone system, because the third of the last chord of the second piece is (inevitably?) slightly sharp. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Stuart Walsh Sent: 13 June 2011 12:29 To: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] bandora tunes I've got the Lute Society's bandora on loan. It's a nice instrument. used to have one years ago but I'd forgotten how difficult it is to get these things tolerably in tune. Here's a go at three very short pieces from Thomas Brown's 'Bandore and lyra viol book' (about which I know nothing), copied out years ago by Donald Gill. (And thanks to Peter Forrester). The tuning isn't quite right - but not too far out, I hope. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipGcIA8EUX8 and here's a couple of RT's uke tunes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f22GLlsLZug Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] What's the point to 'historical sound'
Dear Mathias, As a man of the cloth, you will know that music has long been able to have a powerful effect on the listener: "And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand; so Saul was refreshed. And was well, and the evil spirit departed from him." [1, Samuel, 16, 23] One can speculate about the extent of David's self-expression through music, and whether or not this was possible for someone living before the 19th century. The important thing for me, which transcends HIP/ non-HIP considerations, is the effect of the music we play on the listener. After hearing me play the lute in a primary school some years ago, the most disruptive pupil in the class wrote, "When I heard the lute, I felt I wanted to cry." Therein lies the point of what we do. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Mathias Roesel Sent: 02 July 2011 22:38 To: 'lutelist Net' Subject: [LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound' > Would you consider Lachrimae as a personal artistic expression of Dowland or > as an example of more general craftsmanship? An expression of his sublime art, certainly. I do resist the notion, however, that Dowland had personally fallen in love with queen Elizabeth. On the other hand, I had the opportunity to attend a recital where an American soprano sang this song and moved me to tears. I happened to make her acquaintance and came to know that she was endlessly sad because her husband had to live in the US while she was trying to settle in Europe. I won't go more into the details, think you'll get the idea. > Maybe Francesco, > Dowland or Weiss didn't feel about their art as we today imagine Beethoven felt > about his art, but does that make their art less of a personal expression? Okay, probably I have misunderstood what to you is a personal expression. To me it is expressing your own true emotions and feelings towards others. That is difficult business if there is no appropriate musical language for doing that. Composers from Beethoven to Wagner and Strauss (to name a few Europeans) invented a musical language so as to express personal feelings explicitly. > in essence there was no difference between Beethoven and earlier composers > like Weiss, Dowland or Francesco. There was a difference in their social role and > stature, the value and regard of their works, but perhaps not in their own > attitude to what must have been their children: ther compositions. We'll never know for sure as they didn't elaborate on this topic (as far as I know). There is an anecdote about Chopin that I read somewhere. When Chopin came to Paris, he heard a local pianist playing music by Chopin. Chopin is said to have been startled as that pianist was playing the music so emotionally > > But taking pieces of lute music as > > expressing personal emotions of their composers > > That could never be the basis of an interpretation. Only as a starting point of > how we would feel what we imagine the composer would have felt. Today's > interpreter is the translator of these feelings. Yes. Take e. g. the Tombeaux for Logy and for Cajetan by Weiss. Very expressive pieces, full of dark minor chords and remote keys. Perhaps we like to take them as personal expressions of grief. Weiss would not have dared, I suppose. > > settings that the music probably was performed in (like royal > > festivities with dances, civic parties etc.) > > How boring: music without emotions but historical setting only. I'm sorry? Festivities and parties without emotions? Without expression of true personal emotions, possibly, but certainly not without emotions! Every little musical phrase expresses gestures which are connected to emotions. That's the thing with any kind of code: If only you're trained to appreciate, you'll be able to enjoy. > For sure, the > programmes I play are full of historical references, I play early music after all, > but to make it into sounding music, the stuff that makes people cry or laugh, I > have to bring in emotions ... . of your own. > > rather than on possible personal > > expressions of the composers. > > .. and what better source of emotions, in a historical setting, can I draw on than > the emotions that the composer is conveying to me through his composition? The composer is conveying? The opposite is true, I think, in that we carry our emotions into what we hear because we always search for meaning. > 'Flow my tears' - what more do I need for inspiration? And that's what makes you an accomplished artist. I'm sure, though, you will perform it differently from E. Karamazov who didn't need more for inspiration as well. > That's the beauty of it: convince yourself and you'll convince your audience. And > if it doesn't work, find another job. ;-) People who are making music for their > audiences only, are entertainers. A good job, and we ca
[LUTE] Mersenne / ML
Dear Rainer, Thanks for your interesting observation about Mersenne. I had always assumed that the music on folio 1v of the ML lute book was associated with change-ringing. Bob Spencer cautiously suggests this as a possibility on page xxi of the facsimile: "Forty-six permutations of the scale of C major in bass clef, suggesting changes for bell ringers, or sight-singing exercises." The seventeenth century was when change-ringing evolved in England, so the connection with Folio 1v is not implausible. The first bar consists of a downward scale of 8 notes in C major. It is normal for bell-ringers to begin with a series of these downward scales, called rounds, before branching off onto some method or other. I think it is significant that the notes alter, from one bar to the next, with adjacent notes changing places, just as they do in bell-ringing. For example, after that first bar of CBAGFEDC, there comes CBAFGEDC. In other words, F and G (in 4th and 5th places) have swapped places. In the next bar we have CBAFEGDC, so G and E (in 5th and 6th places) have swapped places. This is what happens in change ringing. As far as I know, the changes on folio 1v do not make up a recognised method, but I could try to find out more. Wild speculation: one of the scribes of the ML Lute Book was into bell ringing. Further speculation: she was called Margaret. :-) All the best, Stewart. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Rainer Sent: 08 August 2011 18:52 To: Lute net Subject: [LUTE] Mersenne / ML Dear lute netters, as some of you may know Robert Spencer (editor of the facsimile edition of the ML lute book) was puzzled by the f 1v which contains a list of 46 permutations of 8 notes and by the list of factorials on 56r. Yesterday I noticed that Mersenne's HARMONICORVM LIBER PRIMVS published in 1636 (I am afraid I even don't know if this is a Latin version of his famous Harmonie Universelle) contains: * A complete list of all 24 permutations of 4 notes. * A list of factorials from 1 to 64. Note: 64! has 90 digits and this is probably the largest factorial calculated without computers. By the way, a complete list of all permutations of 8 notes would require to write down 8! = 40320 permutations, which is beyond discussion. Anyway, obviously the scribe computed 8! on f. 56r which probably is not a coincidence. Wild speculation: One of the scribes knew Mersenne's book. Rainer adS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Ian Harwood
Ian Harwood's obituary appeared in this morning's Daily Telegraph, and may be seen on line at [1]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/music- obituaries/8691938/Ian-Harwood.html His daughter Jenny told me that there would be an obituary in The Times and The Guardian as well. Stewart McCoy -- References 1. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/music-obituaries/8691938/Ian-Harwood.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] My Lord Chamberlain
Dear Val, Thanks for the clip. I would make two observations: 1) It would have been better if the player playing the low notes played nearer the bridge. That way you get clear, crisp chords in the bass, and sweet single-line notes in the treble. If the chords are played too far from the bridge, you tend to get splats (strings crashing together) as with this performance. Splats are a big problem with the lute, but not the guitar. 2) It is a mistake to keep stopping in the third section so as to make the change of left-hand position easier. If Dowland had wanted extra rests, he would have written them. By adding extra time for their convenience, they destroy the rhythm of the galliard. A quick search through YouTube produces the following variety of hand placement: As I suggest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBW1-Kectio&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsBr3RYcjX8&feature=related Not as I suggest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EIIb9-2L0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqgsI2lVEjc&feature=related Both ways: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR6Bx8gMVxY A complete cop-out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLDnkJUHS24 Best wishes, Stewart. PS to make Dowland turn in his grave - eight hands on one guitar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THJcvexjtGg&feature=related Cher Val, Merci pour le clip. Je ferais deux observations: 1) Il aurait valu mieux si le musicien qui joue les notes basses jouait plus près du chevalet. Comme ça on produit des accords clairs et vifs, tandis que les notes individuelles de la mélodie sont douces. Si on joue les accords trop loin du chevalet, les deux cordes d'une choeur peuvent se frapper, comme dans ce clip. C'est un grand problème chez le luth, mais pas chez la guitarre. 2) C'est une erreur si on s'arrête continuellement dans la troisième partie seulement pour faciliter le changement des mains. Si Dowland avait voulu plus de pauses, il les aurait écrites. En ajoutant du temps seulement pour les aider à changer position, ils détruisent le rhythme du gaillard. On peut trouver vite chez YouTube des façons différentes de tenir les mains: Ma suggestion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBW1-Kectio&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsBr3RYcjX8&feature=related Pas ma suggestion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EIIb9-2L0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqgsI2lVEjc&feature=related Les deux façons, l'une après l'autre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR6Bx8gMVxY Se défiler complètement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLDnkJUHS24 Amitiés, Stewart. PS pour faire Dowland se retourner dans sa tombe: huit mains sur une seule guitarre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THJcvexjtGg&feature=related -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Valery Sauvage Sent: 20 September 2011 13:20 To: le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] My Lord Chamberlain Another try : Une autre tentative... [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hudZxUzNNo Val. -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hudZxUzNNo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987
Whilst browsing through the lute music at the Bayerische Staatsbibliothek on line, I noticed an extraordinary intabulation of Claudin de Sermisy's Il me suffit in German lute tablature in Ms. Mus. 2987. The manuscript contains music in organ tablature, German lute tablature, French lute tablature and Italian lute tablature. What is so unusual about Il me suffit is that each of the four voices has been given a separate set of rhythm signs. I have only ever seen this once before, which was in Virdung's Musica getutscht und ausgezogen (1511). Seeing the voices intabulated separately in this way helps one understand why the system of one set of conflated rhythm signs evolved as the norm. It is just possible that this copy of Il me suffit was intended for four viols - after all, Hans Gerle used German tablature for viols - but having the four voices so compact, as a score rather than in separate parts, makes me think that the music was intended for lute solo. Underneath Il me suffit is the start of another piece, which I don't recognise. You can see how the scribe drew his "staves" and bar lines before writing in the numbers and letters for the notes with a rhythm sign for each note. There is a description of the manuscript in Boetticher's RISM volume, p. 224. You can see the manuscript at: [1]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00049370/images/inde x.html?id=00049370&fip=qrsqrseayaensdaseayaenqrsxdsydensdas&no=44&seite =15 Stewart McCoy. -- References 1. http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00049370/images/index.html?id=00049370&fip=qrsqrseayaensdaseayaenqrsxdsydensdas&no=44&seite=15 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987
Dear Arthur, Many thanks for your message. I now realise that what at first appears to be a useless, difficult-to-read intabulation of Il me suffit, is in fact a necessary half-way house, assuming one is trying to intabulate polyphonic music from a set of partbooks where there are no barlines. You have to create a score first to be able to intabulate the piece for solo lute. It also restores my faith in Virdung. His intabulation is a similar half-way house. Showing the intabulation process would have been more use to his readers than just giving them a finished intabulation they could find anywhere. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: A. J. Ness [mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net] Sent: 10 October 2011 00:09 To: Stewart McCoy; Lute Net Subject: Re: [LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 Dear Stewart, Mus Ms 2987 is a fascicle manuscript. That is several (3?) manuscripts bound together in the mid-19th century. (One fascicle is in the hand of Melchior Newsidler. Willi Apel has published the keyboard pieces.) Some of the pages were discovered in 1840 loose in one of the huge Lassus choir books (5 foot tall!), where they must have been for two centuries. I see no reason to doubt that they are the first stage in making an intabulation. There is, however, an unrelated manuscript in the Munich University library that has German tablature likewise in score format. But the pieces are for viols since some parts are labeled "Geygen." There's lute music in that manuscript also. Back across the street to D-Mbs. Mus Ms 1511C has some sketchy pages (lots of corrections) of intabuations of "Aspice dominum" by Jachet, followed by similar sketchy intabulation of Willaert's "Audi filia." Now in the middle of Aspice is a page of German tablature in SATB score format (fol. 3v). It's a tricky passage for "Audi filia" that the intabulator worked out in SATB tablature score and then copied into the tablature. At the end of that fascile is a dedication to a priest, "Al reverendo patre fra matio." (For a related matter see my response to Henner's inquiry.) AJN - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" To: "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 5:16 PM Subject: [LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 > Whilst browsing through the lute music at the Bayerische > Staatsbibliothek on line, I noticed an extraordinary intabulation of > Claudin de Sermisy's Il me suffit in German lute tablature in Ms. Mus. > 2987. The manuscript contains music in organ tablature, German lute > tablature, French lute tablature and Italian lute tablature. What is so > unusual about Il me suffit is that each of the four voices has been > given a separate set of rhythm signs. I have only ever seen this once > before, which was in Virdung's Musica getutscht und ausgezogen (1511). > Seeing the voices intabulated separately in this way helps one > understand why the system of one set of conflated rhythm signs evolved > as the norm. It is just possible that this copy of Il me suffit was > intended for four viols - after all, Hans Gerle used German tablature > for viols - but having the four voices so compact, as a score rather > than in separate parts, makes me think that the music was intended for > lute solo. Underneath Il me suffit is the start of another piece, which > I don't recognise. You can see how the scribe drew his "staves" and bar > lines before writing in the numbers and letters for the notes with a > rhythm sign for each note. There is a description of the manuscript in > Boetticher's RISM volume, p. 224. You can see the manuscript at: > > > [1]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00049370/images/inde > x.html?id=00049370&fip=qrsqrseayaensdaseayaenqrsxdsydensdas&no=44&seite > =15 > > > Stewart McCoy. > > > -- > > References > > 1. > http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00049370/images/index.ht ml?id=00049370&fip=qrsqrseayaensdaseayaenqrsxdsydensdas&no=44&seite=15 > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987
Dear Arthur, Many thanks for the reference to Hiroyuki Minamino's excellent article in The Lute. Yes, it's a pity the reproduction of the page from Ms Mus 2987 is so poor - details like the little horizontal lines for tied notes are completely lost - but at least we can see it clearly on line now. All the best, Stewart. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of A. J. Ness Sent: 11 October 2011 08:46 To: Lute List; Stewart McCoy Subject: [LUTE] Re: Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 Nothing New Under the Sun. The intabulation in score format from Mus Ms 2987 (fol. 2) is examined in context in Hiroyuki Minamino, "The Schlick-Virdung Lute Intabulation Controversy," The Lute 46 (2006): 54-67. Alas the reproduction of the Munich folio on page 57 is reduced and totally illegible. Here again is the link to that page: [1]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0004/bsb00049370/images/inde x.html?id=00049370&fip=qrsqrseayaensdaseayaenqrsxdsydensdas&no=44&seite =15 For more information on the topic, see Hiro's dissertation, "Sixteenth-Century Lute Treatises with Emphasis on Process and Techniques of Intabulation," Ph.D. diss., University of Chicago, 1988. ajn To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987
Dear David, Thanks for the reference to what you have written online about Virdung's intabulation of O haylige onbeflecte zart junkfrawschafft Marie. I too used to think that Virdung didn't know what he was doing, but having spotted Il me suffit in Ms. Mus. 2987 the other day, I came to the conclusion that he was not as daft as he appeared, or as daft as Schlick had made him out to be. Virdung was trying to show the intabulation process, not a completed intabulation, so he included "mistakes" which had yet to be ironed out, just as there are in Ms. Mus. 2987. I think Hiroyuki Minamino is spot on in his article - the one Arthur referred to - where he shows what Virdung was really trying to do. Schlick's criticism has more to do with personal animosity than incompetence on Virdung's part. All very interesting. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David van Ooijen Sent: 11 October 2011 11:34 To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Il me suffit in Ms Mus 2987 On 11 October 2011 09:45, A. J. Ness wrote: > Nothing New Under the Sun. The intabulation in score format from Mus > Ms 2987 (fol. 2) is examined in context in Hiroyuki Minamino, "The > Schlick-Virdung Lute Intabulation Controversy," The Lute 46 (2006): Or here: http://home.kpn.nl/ooije006/david/writings/maria_f.html David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Something old and something new - Conrad Paumann and Gilbert Isbin
Dear Stuart, I think "Ich beger nit mer" would be "Ich begiere nicht mehr" in modern German, meaning "I long no more". Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Stuart Walsh Sent: 26 November 2011 22:27 To: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Something old and something new - Conrad Paumann and Gilbert Isbin Paumann's 'Ich beger nit mer' from the Buxheimer Orgerlbuch. Paumann played the lute (and perhaps, fingerstyle) as well as the organ and - maybe - he played it in a similar way on both instruments. It fits a G lute well and only need five courses. Online German translators don't recognise 'beger', 'nit' nor 'mer' as German so I don't have a clue what the title means. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInorS2jmIk Gilbert Isbin's 'Recall', (August? 2011) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKJxE7mTkmg Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Something old and something new - Conrad Paumann and Gilbert Isbin
Dear Ralf, Thanks for correcting my mistake. I was mixing up the verb with the noun, die Begier (desire, longing). Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of R. Mattes Sent: 27 November 2011 00:12 To: Stewart McCoy; Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Something old and something new - Conrad Paumann and Gilbert Isbin On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:07:13 -, Stewart McCoy wrote > Dear Stuart, > > I think "Ich beger nit mer" would be "Ich begiere nicht mehr" in modern > German, meaning "I long no more". Just for the records: there's no such word as "begieren" - modern german verb is "begehren" (↗ mhd. 'gêren'). Cheers, RalfD To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Transposing lute tablature on sight
Transposing tablature at sight, or playing a keyboard instrument while reading tablature, are not impossible. I find the first tricky, and the second remarkably easy, as long as the tablature is French. It all depends on how you learned the lute in the first place. If you started with tablature, you are likely to see the letters only as positions on the fingerboard, and transposition will be well nigh impossible. If, on the other hand, you started with staff notation, those tablature letters are more likely to represent pitch, making transposition or playing the music straight on a piano much easier. Roman's point about temperament is a bit of a red herring, because the evidence points towards equal temperament being the norm for lute and viols by the beginning of the 17th century. Stewart McCoy To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Transposing lute tablature on sight
Dear David, To confirm what you say, Morley's oft-requested "It was a lover and his lass" is fearfully difficult for the lutenist to play at the printed pitch, but it works a treat transposed down a tone. It also helps singers who don't like singing top g", and my ears which don't like hearing top g". Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David van Ooijen Sent: 04 December 2011 19:09 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight On 4 December 2011 19:58, David Tayler wrote: > especially Airs to Cour but also English lute songs, and here down a > tone is the most common, followed by up a tone. I've noticed some lute songs become easier down a tone. Particularly Morley songs. I always wondered about his songs - were they written a tone lower but publisehd a tone up? Funny, that. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Transposing lute tablature on sight
Dear Martyn, I don't really want to speculate why Morley's songs are in the keys they are. The aim of my message was simply to make people aware, if they were not already, that "It was a lover and his lass" is much easier to play and sing when transposed down a tone from the printed pitch. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Martyn Hodgson [mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 05 December 2011 10:45 To: Stewart McCoy Subject: Re: [LUTE] Transposing lute tablature on sight Dear Stewart, But isn't it interesting that, if Morley did write the original in staff notation and the piece was then intabulated, this particular key was choosen? Or is the suggestion that whoever did it didn't think it mattered whatever key they put it in because the lutenist would transpose (on sight.). Why would they do this if they expected to generate sales? - or are you also suggesting that any 'experienced' lutenist at the time could transpose intabulated lute songs on sight? rgds Martyn --- On Mon, 5/12/11, Stewart McCoy wrote: From: Stewart McCoy Subject: [LUTE] Transposing lute tablature on sight To: "Lute Net" Date: Monday, 5 December, 2011, 10:03 Dear David, To confirm what you say, Morley's oft-requested "It was a lover and his lass" is fearfully difficult for the lutenist to play at the printed pitch, but it works a treat transposed down a tone. It also helps singers who don't like singing top g", and my ears which don't like hearing top g". Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David van Ooijen Sent: 04 December 2011 19:09 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight On 4 December 2011 19:58, David Tayler <[3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > especially Airs to Cour but also English lute songs, and here down a > tone is the most common, followed by up a tone. I've noticed some lute songs become easier down a tone. Particularly Morley songs. I always wondered about his songs - were they written a tone lower but publisehd a tone up? Funny, that. David To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vidan...@sbcglobal.net 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Ornithology
Dear Bernd, This question came up some years ago, and there were many interesting contributions. It may be possible to trace the thread in the Lute Net archives. There is a nice Anonymous "This merry pleasant spring" for voice and lute in the Turpyn Book of Lute Songs, and lute songs by John Bartlett: "Of all the birds", and nos 19-21 in his _Booke of Ayres_ (1606), including "The thrush did pipe full cleare". There are many pieces called "Robin", but almost certainly not associated with the bird of that name. Ravenscroft's "There were three ravens" could easily be arranged as a lute song. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Bernd Haegemann Sent: 11 January 2012 21:58 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] ornithology Dear all, please name me some lute pieces dedicated to birds. I have the whole Gallot collection, a Gautier "rossignol", there is the nice "rossignol" duet.. Thank your for your suggestions! Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Guitar temperament
Dear Dominic, It has to be equal temperament. The question of temperament crops up from time to time on this list, and some subscribers have expressed strong views either for or against having fretted instruments in equal temperament. Our debate echoes the same debate musicians had during the 16th and 17th century. Those in favour of unequal temperament will refer to evidence such as: 1) 16th-century vihuela players moving the 4th fret for the sake of pieces in flat keys, e.g. Luis Milan in 1536; 2) Christopher Simpson's _Compendium_ in 1667 describing how some viol players and theorbo men had an extra first fret on their instrument. Those in favour of equal temperament will refer to: 1) Galilei espousing equal temperament for lutes in 1582 with his 18:17 ratio for the placing of frets; 2) Praetorius stating unequivocally in 1619 that lutes and viols were fretted in equal temperament. Much of the evidence may be found in Mark Lindley's excellent _Lutes, Viols & Temperaments_ (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1984). One may fairly quibble about his dubious conclusion that Valderrabano must have used equal temperament (page 22), but there is a wealth of information on the subject supporting both sides of the argument. Your evidence derived from Bartolotti is an important contribution to the debate, and adds weight to the argument that baroque guitars were fretted in equal temperament. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dominic Robillard Sent: 18 January 2012 23:12 Cc: lute list lute list Subject: [LUTE] guitar temperament Hi luters, Bartolotti starts with a passacaille in book I. Each passacaille modulates to a different key. Was he ahead of Wagner? Were performers of passacailles through all keys allowed to stop to tune, and change fret spacing within a work? Was that okay and normal for the audience? Was there an audience? Equal temperament sounds so bad, it just can't be. I refuse to stop using meantone, 1/6, but I can't seem to get passed the 4th fret on my guitar. How many tastinos will it take? I was told by pros, including Stubbs, that things get looser up there, but I think that is just continuo talk. Even playing Sanz doesn't pan out, can anyone help? Dominic -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Chow Bente
Dear Leonard and David, John Robinson explains the origin of Chow Bent in footnote 133 on page 24 of the Introduction to the Lute Society facsimile of Dd.2.11, for which Rainer aus dem Spring is thanked in the Acknowledgements on page 8. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: 14 February 2012 03:25 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Chow Bente Haven't read Rainer's explanation but Chowbent is another name for Atherton Tunes were often named for towns, like "Edinboro" or "Richmond" and in some dialects tune is pronounced the same as town [1]http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Atherton/index.html aEUR~The lads of Chowbent were there And had brought their dogs to the bear But they had no time to play They danced away the day For thither then they had brought Knex To play Chowbent hornpipe, that Nick's Tommy's and Geffrey's shoon Were worn quite through to the tune' dt __ From: Leonard Williams To: Lute List Sent: Mon, February 13, 2012 5:12:28 PM Subject: [LUTE] Chow Bente The introduction to the Lute Society's facsimile edition of Matthew Holmes acknowledges the assistance of Rainer aus dem Spring and his explanation of the title of piece #256, "Chow Bente"; however, that explanation does not seem to appear in the edition. What is it (sounds Italian)? Thanks and regards, Leonard Williams To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Atherton/index.html 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Message for Ed Martin (names of lute strings)
Dear David, Thomas Robinson gives the names of the strings of a 6-course lute as follows: Treble. Small Meanes. Great Meanes. Contra-tenor. Tenor. Bass. Presumably the strings used for the 5th and 6th courses were too thick to be used for frets. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David R Sent: 15 February 2012 17:20 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Message for Ed Martin I was talking to someone the other day about viol fretting, specifically: using old strings as fret gut. Along with some information on that, he sent me this quote from Dowland. He didn't specify John or Robert: "therefore doe this; let the two first frets neerest the head of the Instrument (being the greatest) be of the size of your Countertenor, then the third and fourth frets must be of the size of your great Meanes : the fift and sixt frets of the size of your small Meanes : and all the rest sized with Trebles. These rules serue also for Viols, or any other kinde of Instrument whereon frets are tyed." I'm not familiar with the terms "countertenor," "great meanes" or "small means." I assume Dowland is referring to lute strings, but can anyone tell me which courses he's referring to? Also, I've been so out of touch over the last year or so, I've lost track of people's e-mail addresses. Ed Martin, can you drop me an e- mail? Something I wanted to ask you about: d_lu...@comcast.net. Thanks. David Rastall To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Ford Airs de Coeur
Dear Tom, You'll find the tablature at http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u4ujSrX0DgsC&dq=%22thomas+ford%22+%2B +lute&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=hX3jUgVnd2&sig=i_GiCbv0NH-sai6bo vDkVNk5q_0&hl=en&ei=QadTSq7XON6RjAeZla2LCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result &resnum=4#v=onepage&q=%22thomas%20ford%22%20%2B%20lute&f=false The music is for two lyra viols, so the tablature will need adjusting to fit on lutes, because the tuning of the viols is not the same as the lutes. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of t...@heartistrymusic.com Sent: 24 February 2012 18:07 To: Lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Ford Airs de Coeur Dear Lute Friends, A student of mine heard some Thomas Ford airs de coeur on public radio performed by Godelieve Monden and Narcisso Yepes. The selections are: Allemande Forget Me Not A Pavan A Galliard The Bagpipes The Wild Goose Chase Are these available anywhere in Fronimo or PDF? Thanks, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Funny story
I have just received this little story from a friend in Austria. Names have been removed to preserve anonymity. [The teacher] has a new guitar pupil, a seven-year-old boy called [...] . He came for his second lesson yesterday, and asked, what is that thing hanging on the wall there? - the lute. So it was explained to him, it is an old instrument, related to the guitar. The light dawned: "wie der Gorilla und der Mensch" ... Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Nazi rules for jazz performers
Dear Gary, Thank you for letting us see this extraordinary list of dos and don'ts compiled by a Nazi Gauleiter with regard to jazz. State interference in the performance of music is a sure sign that something is seriously wrong. In Great Britain you are not allowed to play sacred music at a civil wedding ceremony. On one occasion, when the bride was very late arriving, we musicians had to keep playing for a long time to keep everyone entertained. When I announced that we would next play Bach's Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring, the registrar stepped forward and told us that we were not allowed to play it, because it was sacred music. On another occasion, in a different part of the country, I was required to submit details of all music to played at a civil ceremony weeks beforehand, so that the registrar could vet the music, and ensure that the programme did not include any sacred pieces. A couple getting married at a civil ceremony cannot request music with sacred connotations, whatever reason they may have for wanting it played. Ironically, the Anglican Church allows any music, sacred or not, to be played during wedding ceremonies. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Gary Digman Sent: 13 March 2012 08:38 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers Famed Czech radical Josef Skvorecky recently died at 87 in his adopted land of Canada. In the Atlantic, JJ Gould remembers Skvorecky through his memoirs, including a detailed list of the rules for jazz performers during the Nazi occupation. The Reich's Gauleiter for the Nazi Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia issued a 10-point regulation that Gould calls "the single most remarkable example of 20th-century totalitarian invective against jazz." To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Being too clever, knowing always "how it is"...
Dear Arto, I'm not so sure. He may not be right. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Arto Wikla Sent: 14 March 2012 22:13 To: Lutelist List Subject: [LUTE] Being too clever, knowing always "how it is"... Dear lutenists, after having read every now and then some quite strong opinions "how it really is" here in our List, I cannot resist posting a perhaps slightly OT message, but there is a great wisdom in a comment by Charles Bukowski: "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts while the stupid ones are full of confidence." Actually that is very pessimistic, but anyhow all the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Being too clever, knowing always "how it is"...
Dear Eugene, Try playing a few scales, and remember the thread started with Arto in Finland. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Braig, Eugene Sent: 15 March 2012 11:03 To: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Being too clever, knowing always "how it is"... In fishes, depending upon the degree of group responsiveness, the "swarm" behavior is usually referred to as "shoaling" (for somewhat loose associations) or "schooling" (in more tight-knit associations). Closely schooling fishes often feature a highly developed lateralis system for acute hydrodynamic sensory perception. The classic example is found in the herring family (clupeids) that completely lack the lateral line along the body customarily associated with fishes, but that have a complex system of lateralis pores and canals entirely concentrated in the head and face. However, I'm having a really hard time relating all this to lutes...unless we are about to consider the benefits of fish glue. Tongue-in-cheekishly Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Franz Mechsner Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:45 AM To: wikla; Stewart McCoy Cc: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Being too clever, knowing always "how it is"... There's a nice story about "always knowing for sure" and leadership, this time in some fishes. It's not only amazing that a swarm of fishes stays together but that - at least in some species - swarms may change direction almost synchronously, like a big swimming organism. Now the story: Researchers found out that, in a certain species of fish, there was always a "leader" in a swarm who's direction all of the others followed. Of course the obvious question arose: What makes the natural leader here? Is it a particuarly clever fish? Or a fish who knows instinctively what direction is the best ist most circumstances? The answer which turned out was: Fishes have a tendency to adjust their direction with that of their neighbors in the swarm. There is always one fish in a swarm who does NOT adjust to any other fish - thus his direction wins over any other direction in the end. So much for apparent knowledge for sure and natural leadership. F Dr. Franz Mechsner Reader Northumbria University, Dept. of Psychology Northumberland Building Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 8ST (UK) Tel: +44(0) 191 243 7479 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] An anonymous (?) fantasia from Hortus Musarum (1552)
Dear Lex, Yes, the piece appears on folio 63v of Valderrábano's book. Phalèse nicked quite a few things from Valderrábano, and didn't always get them right. At the beginning of this piece three voices enter one after the other. It is odd that the second voice in both sources has an extra note to start, and I wonder if that is a mistake. What is definitely a mistake is Phalèse missing out one of Valderrábano's bars (which equals half one of Phalèse's bars), so that the bass doesn't imitate the other two voices. To aid comparison, I'll notate both sources in French tablature. (Don't forget to read the music with a mono-spaced font like Courrier, or the vertical alignment will go to pot.) The first four bars are the same in each source. |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ | |\ | | | |\ |\ | |\ | | | |\ |\ | |\ | | |. | | | | | | |. | | | | | | |. | | | _c__a__c__d__c__a__c_a__d_ca___ |_aa|_a__b_a|_a__|_ |_d_|_d_||_ |___|___||_ |___|___|_c__a__c__d_|_ |___|___||_ then they differ: Valderrábano |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ | |\ |\ | | | | | |\ |\ |\ |\ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | __c__c_d_c___a ___|___|d__b_d__|_ _d_|___|__d_|_ _c_|b__c___||_ c__a__c|__d|___a_c__|_ ___|___||_ Phalèse |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ | | | | | |\ |\ |\ |\ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | __c__c_d_c___a ___|___|d__b_d__|_ ___|___|__d_|_ _c_|b__c___||_ __c|__d|___a_c__|_ ___|___|________|_ Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Lex van Sante Sent: 02 April 2012 08:55 To: lute mailing list list Subject: [LUTE] Re: An anonymous (?) fantasia from Hortus Musarum (1552) This music also appears in Silva de Sirenas by Valderrabano of 1547. He probably is the composer. Lex Op 1 apr 2012, om 23:56 heeft Stuart Walsh het volgende geschreven: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0l5uYBgIMM > > > > Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Miking a lute/theorbo
Dear Brad, You can hear that tinny, brittle, distorted sound if you put your ear right up to the ribs of the lute as you play it. (It's easier with a lute than a theorbo.) A mike placed very close to the instrument will capture some of that tinny sound. If you listen to a lute or theorbo from 6-9 feet away, the sound will be totally different - the sound we expect to hear. It makes sense then, if you want a more natural sound, to put the mike two or three yards away from the instrument. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Brad Walton Sent: 03 April 2012 17:06 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] miking a lute/theorbo Hello folks, On the weekend I recorded two pieces in a professional recording studio. I was accompanying a singer on the theorbo. The recording engineer aimed two mikes quite close to the body of the theorbo. On the recording, the sound of the theorbo is very tinny and distorted, and bears almost no similarity to the natural/ acoustic sound of the instrument. Has anybody had experience with miking a lute or theorbo for recording? What mike placement gave you the best results so far as concerned fidelity to the natural sound of the instrument? Thanks, Brad To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Selling a guitar
A friend of mine is trying to sell a 4-course renaissance guitar. I suggested he try Wayne's site at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/forsale.html . Are there any other websites - lute, guitar, ukulele - where instruments can be advertised for sale? Any help much appreciated. Stewart McCoy -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/forsale.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Consort Suggestions Please
Dear Tom, I would advise using the lute to double the notes of the recorders, not for the lute to take an independent voice line. If that means the lute would have too many notes to play, play just the lowest parts. I don't think Dowland's Lachrimae would work well. There is much music to choose from, but a good starting place would be the 3-part songs published by Pierre Attaingnant in 1530. There is a modern edition edited by Bernard Thomas and published by London Pro Musica (LPM PC10). There is a supplementary publication (LPM PC10a) where the lowest two parts of some of these songs are intabulated for the lute. These intabulations were originally published by Attaingnant in 1529. You could also try the 3-part fantasies of William Byrd. There are some intabulations of these - the lowest two voices (more or less) of three - in Lbl Add MS 29246, one of Edward Paston's five extant lute books. You can always make your own intabulations, of course. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of t...@heartistrymusic.com Sent: 09 September 2012 18:12 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Consort Suggestions Please I have some friends who have had a recorder ensemble for many years. Formerly 4 players. They lost one of their main players some years ago, and they would like to re-group as a trio with me playing Renaissance lute. They inherited a fine collection of Renaissance and Baroque recorders, in all sizes including Bass, crumhorns, zincs, and even a sakpipa and a cornemuse from the founder of the ensemble. Does anybody have suggestions for composers and / or specific pieces that would fit well with 3 recorders, etc. and lute? Dowland's Lachrimae, perhaps? (I know that's 5 parts - but ... leave one out maybe ... ? ) Thanks in advance, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] English renaissance Christmas songs
Dear Ed, There is a lute intabulation Byrd's "Lullaby" in one of the Paston lute books. There is a modern intabulation of Byrd's "Out of the orient crystal skies" in _Eight Consort Songs by William Byrd_, published by Fretwork editions, FE3 A, in 1990. Both intabulations include the lowest four voices of five. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Martin Sent: 26 September 2012 19:02 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] English renaissance Christmas songs Dear Collective wisdom, I was just employed to perform in a number of concerts with a choral group in December. A special request is for one lute song, sung in English, with either a direct or implied Christmas theme. I am drawing a blank. any ideas? Thanks in advance, ed To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] The article by Annette Otterstedt about David Dolata's book about tuning
Having read David Dolata's book, and reviewed it for the Viola da Gamba Society, I was disappointed to read Annette Otterstedt's unkind review. Dolata produces a lot of evidence to show that unequal temperaments were used in the past for fretted instruments. For example, vihuelists advised moving the fourth fret for pieces which required a flat note on the second course â g' flat for an instrument in g' â instead of f'# required for other pieces. Otterstedt ignores this, and in her first paragraph dismisses the whole idea of frets being moved, because she does not know of a surviving instrument with marks on the neck. I wonder how many surviving vihuelas she has examined. Dolata argues the case for unequal fretting on viols, at least when they are played with an organ, because organs were not tuned in equal temperament. Otterstedt seems to be saying that viols would have been tuned in equal temperament, and so would have been deliberately out of tune with the organ. I don't see the sense in this. According to Thomas Mace (Musick's Monument, (1676), p. 242), one of the reasons for having an organ was to help keep the viols in tune: "Because the Organ stands us in stead of a Holding, Uniting-Constant-Friend; and is as a Touch-stone, to try the certainty of All Things; especially the Well-keeping the Instruments in Tune, &c." Of course there will be problems with some enharmonic notes, because the position of one fret affects all six strings, but I find it hard to imagine a viol player ignoring Mace's advice, ignoring the organ, and doggedly sticking to his own tuning. I like Dolata's book, and although I could find fault with some things â for example, I find his chatty style of writing a distraction, and I prefer to talk about "unequal temperament" rather than meantone temperament" for fretted instruments â there is a wealth of information for us to examine, and much food for thought. Dolata's aim is to encourage today's players to think about temperament and to use unequal fretting systems themselves, and he deserves credit for that. I tried accessing Otterstedt's review on line again this morning, but without success. Apparently it is now "forbidden". Stewart McCoy -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Johann Kropfgans
Dear Roland, Iâm afraid I donât know about these trios by Johann Kropfgans, but I would very much like to know more about them. I see from a quick search on the internet that Kropfgans wrote chamber music for the lute, violin and cello, including one in C minor, but I see no evidence of lute trios. It is possible that Lutz Kirchhof made his own lute trio arrangements from those chamber music pieces, but Iâm only guessing. Hopefully youâll be able to find out more. Best wishes, Stewart. From: [1]Roland Hayes Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:10 PM To: [2]Wayne ; [3]Stewart McCoy Cc: [4]lute net Subject: Johann Kropfgans He wrote 32 lute trios? What are the sources? I just heard one in c minor w/ Lutz Kerchoff. Outstanding!! r -- References 1. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org 2. mailto:wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lu...@tiscali.co.uk 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Johann Kropfgans
Dear Roland, There are some trios for lute, violin and cello by Johann Kropfgans in Brussels, Bibliothèque Royale de Belgique Albert 1er, Ms. II. 4088. Information about the manuscript is given by Wolfgang Boetticher, Handschriftlich Ãberlieferte Lauten- und Gitarrentabulaturen des 15. bis 18. Jahrhunderts, RISM Bvii (Munich: G. Henle Verlag, 1978), pp. 62-3. Incipits of the separate movements may be found on line at [1]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1&type=ms&ms=B-Br4088&lang=eng&in str=all&st=10 which you could use to see if any of it matches the music on the CD. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of Ms. II. 4088 sitting on my shelves here at home, although I do have copies of Ms. II. 4087 and Ms. II. 4089. They are faint xeroxes once owned by Diana Poulton, and sold off by Robert Spencer after her death. The xeroxes were in poor condition when I acquired them, and on one part of Ms. II. 4089, Robert Spencer has written, "illegible give away". As with other xeroxes owned by Diana Poulton, they are bound with a white plastic ring binder and given a thick paper cover in red or grey. It is interesting to see what she worked from, and although these documents would have been in better condition when she first had them, she would not have had the sort of detail we are used to now with computer images. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Roland Hayes Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:03 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ; mar...@gmlutz.de Subject: [LUTE] Re: Johann Kropfgans Apologies. I meant trio for lute violin and cello. r __ From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Markus Lutz Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:11:22 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Roland Hayes Subject: [LUTE] Re: Johann Kropfgans In one of the lexika of the end of the 18th or beginning of the 19th century there is a remark, that Johann Kropfgans wrote 32 lute trios, but I cannot say at the moment, in which one it is written. We only have some complete trios in Brusseles and in Berlin. In Brusseles there probably are some even written by himself. Best regards Markus Am 15.05.2018 um 23:43 schrieb Arthur Ness: > Hi Stephen, > > You got it ! ! ! > > > > 12 Trios lute, violin à ¢cello in B-Br Ms II 4088. Also the Pichler > piece in Ms II 4087 (viii) according to Tim Crawford. > > Meyer, Christian. "Les Manuscrits De Luth Du Fonds FÃÃà ©tis (Bruxelles, > BibliothÃÃà ¨que Royale Albert Ier, Mss II 4086-4089)." Revue Belge De > Musicologie / Belgisch Tijdschrift Voor Muziekwetenschap, vol. 50, > 1996, pp. 197à ¢216. JSTOR, JSTOR, [1]www.jstor.org/stable/3687046. > > Also listed with complete titles in Boetticher's RISM VII inventory, > pp. 62-4. These were from the FÃÃà ©tis collection and may have been > acquired from the Breitkopf auction of 1832 (can't find my notes). The > catalogue is extremely rare, but is about 1 à ½ inches thick.*** > Breitkopf decided to empty their warehouse of outmoded music. What a > treasure!! Unique copies of some of the Bach lute pieces were among > the offering. > > Stephan Olbertz, "An Unknown Lute Piece in a Keyboard Manuscript with > Works by Wilhelm Friedemann Bach," JLSA 44 (2012): 1-22. > > ***Copy in the University Library, Amsterdam (NO Longer in the > Amsterdam public library). > Enjoy, Roland! > > > > Arthur Ness > > arthurjn...@verizon.net > > -Original Message- > From: Stephan Olbertz > To: 'Lute Net' > Sent: Tue, May 15, 2018 4:24 pm > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Johann Kropfgans > Think of the galant lute trio like a piano trio... You get the idea ;-) > Best > Stephan > -UrsprÃÃà ¼ngliche Nachricht- > Von: lute-[2]a...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[3]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > Im Auftrag von Stewart McCoy > Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 21:05 > An: Lute Net > Betreff: [LUTE] Johann Kropfgans > Dear Roland, > IÃÃà ¢à ¢à ¬à ¢à ¢m afraid I donÃÃà ¢à ¢à ¬à Â
[LUTE] Dowland's Courante
This evening I had the pleasure of playing Dowland's "Were every thought an eye" from his Pilgrimes Solace (1612). It seemed very familiar, and then I recognised it as Dowland's Courante in Thomas Simpson's Taffel-Consort (1621). I didn't know of this concordance. I can find no mention of it in Diana Poulton's book John Dowland, and no mention in the introduction to the Scolar Press facsimile of A Pilgrimes Solace. Have I discovered something new, or is it already common knowledge? Stewart McCoy -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Music stands
Martin, There I was, waiting in the vestry of a church before a concert, wondering how on earth I could cope with a piece of music four pages long. Turning pages was not an option. I had to be able to see all four pages without page-turns. Unfortunately the fold-out arms of my old music stand would no longer stick out sideways to support the outer pages. The joints had become loose, so the arms just flopped down, as if struck by brewer's droop. What could I do to solve the problem, with only a few minutes before the concert began? I looked around in despair, but there was only the cupboard where the vicar's vestments were hanging. What could I find there to help me? Ah! Coat hangers! Just the job! They were ideal, made of thin, bendy wire. I borrowed two, and hooked them over the top of my folder, so that they were concealed from the audience, apart from bits of wire sticking out sideways from the folder, offering just enough support for the first and fourth pages. It worked a treat, and the concert was a resounding success. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Ron Andrico Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 11:06 PM To: Martin Shepherd ; Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: music stands Martin, for those longer multi-page pieces on a folding stand, I like to use a rigid piece of black foam-core board, cut to whatever length you like. Eminently functional and looks elegant from a few feet away. RA __ From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Martin Shepherd Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 3:47 PM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] music stands Can anyone recommend a good traditional metal music stand? I don't mean the very heavy orchestral stand, just a "normal" fold-out one. I ask because it seems that they're all made in China and are flimsy and unstable. I have one (I think it's Stagg) where the top attaches to the rest with just one rivet, so it just wobbles. I need the little fold-out arms so I can see three-page pieces, too. Thanks for any advice, M --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. [1]https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://www.avast.com/antivirus 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] De Visee
In discussing the plucking of strings with or without nails, I think it is important to keep Thomas Mace, _Musick's Monument_ (1676) in mind. He was, of course, referring to the lute, not the guitar, but I think his remarks on page 73 are relevant for both plucked instruments: "But in the doing of This, take notice, that you strike not your Strings with your Nails, as some do, who maintain it the Best way of Play, but I do not; and for This Reason; because the Nail cannot draw so sweet a Sound from a Lute, as the nibble end of the Flesh can do. I confess in a Consort, it might do well enough, where the Mellowness (which is the most Excellent satisfaction from a Lute) is lost in the Crowd; but Alone, I could never receive so good Content from the Nail, as from the Flesh; However (This being my Opinion) let Others do, as seems Best to Themselves." Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Roland Hayes Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 11:34 PM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] De Visee Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I understand, but I have always thought his lute pieces were merely arrangements of guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can establish the use of nails. And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most likely played theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet to arrive on the scene. Get [1]Outlook for Android This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and return the original message to us at i...@legalaidbuffalo.org -- References 1. https://aka.ms/ghei36 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Dd.5.20
We refer to the Cambridge consort manuscripts as if the four extant volumes now in Cambridge belonged to one set of books. In fact it is more likely that there were two separate sets, each of which had two of the extant part-books. I can't remember off the back of my head how the books are paired up. I should say that this is not my hypothesis. It was Ian Harwood who worked it out, and told me about it before he died. Details will be in his book on the English consort. The book was to have been published posthumously, but I don't know if it ever was. Stewart McCoy -Original Message- From: Jean-Marie Poirier Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 12:39 PM To: Rainer Cc: Lute net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dd.5.20 Lyle’s mistake obviously! I have a good copy from the library and “Holburnes farewell” in on folio 6r! Best, Jean-Marie Le 25 août 2019 à 11:26, Rainer a écrit : Dear lute netters, I wonder if anybody out there is familiar with the Cambridge consort books and may be able to help me. I have downloaded a digital copy of Dd.5.20/21 (bound together) from the LSA web site. Now I am comparing the books with entries in my Holborne edition and Nordstrom's article published in the LSA journal in 1972. Something is decidedly wrong here: According to Nordstom (page 87 of his article) Holborne's Farewell appears in Dd.5.20 on f. 5r. In my digital copy it appears on folio 6r. My first thought was that the MS might have two different foliations-one of them not visible in the poor digital copy. However: According to Nordstrom (page 82) Callinoe appears in Dd.5.20 on folios 3, 5 and 6, which matches the foliation in my digital copy. Any idea anybody? Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Dd.5.20
Rainer, Before he died, Ian Harwood wrote a book on the English consort. He talked to me about it, and gave me some of it to read to see what I thought. What I saw was excellent - a lifetime's work - but he died before finishing it. However, it was in a fairly advanced stage, and I thought someone was going to finish it for him and get it published. Sadly that seems not to have happened. Stewart. -Original Message- From: Rainer Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 7:15 PM To: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dd.5.20 On 25.08.2019 19:37, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote: Unfortunately not, so far, Stewart... Le 25/08/2019 à 19:29, Stewart McCoy a écrit : The book was to have been published posthumously, but I don't know if it ever was. Which book? Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Milan's name - Postludium to the CODA
Dear Antonio, A pleasure to make contact with you via this thread. Strictly speaking there is another example of Milan's tablature, albeit for guitar, in Melchiore de Barberiis, _Libro Decimo_ (Venice: Hieronymus Scotum, 1549). Most of the book contains music for the lute in Italian lute tablature, but at the end of the book are four short pieces for the 4-course guitar. The tablature for the guitar music is the same as Luys Milan's. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Antonio Corona Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 2:35 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Milan's name - Postludium to the CODA Dear G. C. As I stated before, it would be foolish to deny that Milán was influenced by Italian culture; what I do not find is evidence of any possible influence by the Italian lutenists before him. I, for one, would welcome any information about it, but I'm still waiting to be enlightened. As far as I know, with the exception of Dalza's, pavans "alla venetiana" and "alla ferrarese" which are quite different from Milan's, there is no Italian lute source of pavans before 1536 (Attaingnant does have some, but so far nobody here has proposed a French influence). An interesting point would be that, according to Milán, his pavans resemble those played in Italy (parecen en su ayre y compostura a las mesmas pauanas que en Ytalia se tañen). Valid questions would then be: what were his sources? Manuscripts? Did he listen to them? I have to admit this is a big lacuna in our knowledge of the matter, but so far we do not have any satisfactory answers: speculation may contribute to our peace of! mind, but not to our knowledge. Valencian tablature should be called, in fact, Milan's tablature: there are no other examples of it. To me this is another proof of Milán's unique condition (an interesting antecedent would be the Marineo Siculo fragment but that is, too, one of a kind). It could nevertheless be argued that Milán used rhytmic flags above each cipher, as can be found in Petrucci's previous publications (and unlike Casteliono in 1536 and later vihuelists), but that is all I can find in common. Since I am not Spanish, I feel I can hardly be found guilty of championing any issue of honour or ownership; I just try to judge from what available evidence can tell us and form my own criteria from it. I don't care where I step as long as there is a sound basis to justify where I place my feet. Best wishes Antonio P.S. What does "italianate music in a general sense" mean in the context of Milán´s pieces? On Thursday, 9 January 2020, 15:23:56 GMT-6, G. C. wrote: I meant to say: "An improvement to neapolitan tab" (Which was in Valencian hands at the time) (Also only one remaining ms. and de Milano at that!) It's fascinating to think of what influences were at work there.) G. On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 8:23 PM G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote: Pavanas in italian style, songs in italian, italianate music in a general sense, etc. etc. I don't understand this tip-toeing around the fact that Milan was heavily influenced by Italian art and (lutenist) culture, as many were around this time. And also his surname, which I cannot see has satisfyingly been explained yet. Not to speak about the fascinating Valencian tablature, an improvement (in my view) to italian tab which just didn't catch on. Are we afraid of steping on some misguided Spanish sense of honour and ownership for one of the early vihuelists here? Just intrigued G. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Milan's name - Postludium to the CODA
Dear Antonio, I have been searching my house high and low for my photocopy of Barberiis' _Libro Decimo_. It must be here somewhere, but I just can't find it. However, help is at hand at Sarge Gerbode's lute site. If you search there under "facsimiles", you will find a copy of Barberiis' book: http://www.gerbode.net/facsimiles/Barberiis_intabolatura_di_lauto_v10_1549/hh1v.png . The type face for the guitar music looks to me the same as for the lute music. It is interesting that the top line is marked "canto", presumably to clarify that this line represents the first course (highest in pitch), unlike all the lute music earlier in the book. By the way, although each of the guitar pieces has the title "Fantasia", they are really more modest in character. I would be very interested to know what the music is. There is a facsimile copy of Salinas' book at the IMSLP site. Please could you tell me which page he gives the tenor of Conde Claros. (I find the Latin heavy going.) Where possible I would like to link Spanish romances such as Conde Claros to simple melodies, to be able to create a more folky performance (unaccompanied, or with simple chords strummed on the guitar) than the sophisticated arrangements for voice and vihuela which survive in the vihuela books. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Antonio Corona Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 10:58 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Milan's name - Postludium to the CODA Dear Stewart What a pleasant surprise! I'm ever so glad to hear from you. Thank you very much for the information - I stand corrected, and happy to do so, Is it in the same type as the lute music? Sounds very intriguing. Best wishes, Antonio On Friday, 10 January 2020, 04:38:13 GMT-6, Stewart McCoy wrote: Dear Antonio, A pleasure to make contact with you via this thread. Strictly speaking there is another example of Milan's tablature, albeit for guitar, in Melchiore de Barberiis, _Libro Decimo_ (Venice: Hieronymus Scotum, 1549). Most of the book contains music for the lute in Italian lute tablature, but at the end of the book are four short pieces for the 4-course guitar. The tablature for the guitar music is the same as Luys Milan's. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Antonio Corona Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 2:35 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Milan's name - Postludium to the CODA Dear G. C. As I stated before, it would be foolish to deny that Milán was influenced by Italian culture; what I do not find is evidence of any possible influence by the Italian lutenists before him. I, for one, would welcome any information about it, but I'm still waiting to be enlightened. As far as I know, with the exception of Dalza's, pavans "alla venetiana" and "alla ferrarese" which are quite different from Milan's, there is no Italian lute source of pavans before 1536 (Attaingnant does have some, but so far nobody here has proposed a French influence). An interesting point would be that, according to Milán, his pavans resemble those played in Italy (parecen en su ayre y compostura a las mesmas pauanas que en Ytalia se tañen). Valid questions would then be: what were his sources? Manuscripts? Did he listen to them? I have to admit this is a big lacuna in our knowledge of the matter, but so far we do not have any satisfactory answers: speculation may contribute to our peace of! mind, but not to our knowledge. Valencian tablature should be called, in fact, Milan's tablature: there are no other examples of it. To me this is another proof of Milán's unique condition (an interesting antecedent would be the Marineo Siculo fragment but that is, too, one of a kind). It could nevertheless be argued that Milán used rhytmic flags above each cipher, as can be found in Petrucci's previous publications (and unlike Casteliono in 1536 and later vihuelists), but that is all I can find in common. Since I am not Spanish, I feel I can hardly be found guilty of championing any issue of honour or ownership; I just try to judge from what available evidence can tell us and form my own criteria from it. I don't care where I step as long as there is a sound basis to justify where I place my feet. Best wishes Antonio P.S. What does "italianate music in a general sense" mean in the context of Milán´s pieces? On Thursday, 9 January 2020, 15:23:56 GMT-6, G. C. wrote: I meant to say: "An improvement to neapolitan tab" (Which was in Valencian hands at the time) (Also only one remaining ms. and de Milano at that!) It's fascinating to think of what influences were at work there.) G. On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 8:23 PM G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote: Pavanas in italian style, songs in italian, italiana
[LUTE] Ballard 1612
Thanks, Rainer. Much appreciated. There are some other interesting books to be found at the same library. If you click on "Rechercher" and do a search for "luth", you'll find more tablature with a copy of Piccinini. There is also an interesting looking collection of songs by Chancy. Most intriguing are three song collections (in one volume) by François Berthod, who flourished in the 1650s. He took songs by well-known French composers, and replaced their words with a spiritual text. There is a brief Wiki article about him. On the title page of his books there is a left-handed lute-player with a six-string (single courses) lute. All the songs are for two voices - treble and bass - with both parts texted. There are no figures for the bass part, yet a chordal accompaniment on a lute or theorbo should nevertheless be possible. I would be interested to know what the songs are, to which Berthod set his spiritual text. There is no way of knowing from Berthod's collection, and although the library mentions composers like Bacilly and Le Camus, they don't seem to say who wrote which songs, and what the original words were. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Rainer Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2020 4:09 PM To: Lute net Subject: [LUTE] Ballard 1612 https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3446 Click under "Télécharger" Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Ballard 1612
Many thanks, Andreas. I've downloaded the two appendices, which are a mine of information, and which will keep me busy for some time. Good luck with your talk to the Lute Society. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Andreas Schlegel Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:53 AM To: Stewart McCoy Cc: lute list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ballard 1612 There's an important article on that topic by François-Pierre Goy: LA PRATIQUE DE LA PARODIE SPIRITUELLE DANS UN MONASTÈRE TROYEN AU XVIIe SIÈCLE les � Cantiques spirituels faits à la Visitassion Ste Marie � (F-T Ms. 1686) The book can be ordered here: [1]http://societe-champenoise-de-musicologie.org/Cahiers_remois_de_musi cologie.html Scroll to the third book. There are links to the two annexes which include some Airs with parodies by Berthod. On next Saturday I will speak at the Lute Society Meeting and play from the von Erlach lute book. The topic of the „travel" of melodies is one important part of my mini-recital at 11:30. [2]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/meetings I hope to see you there! Andreas Am 02.02.2020 um 00:37 schrieb Stewart McCoy : Thanks, Rainer. Much appreciated. There are some other interesting books to be found at the same library. If you click on "Rechercher" and do a search for "luth", you'll find more tablature with a copy of Piccinini. There is also an interesting looking collection of songs by Chancy. Most intriguing are three song collections (in one volume) by François Berthod, who flourished in the 1650s. He took songs by well-known French composers, and replaced their words with a spiritual text. There is a brief Wiki article about him. On the title page of his books there is a left-handed lute-player with a six-string (single courses) lute. All the songs are for two voices - treble and bass - with both parts texted. There are no figures for the bass part, yet a chordal accompaniment on a lute or theorbo should nevertheless be possible. I would be interested to know what the songs are, to which Berthod set his spiritual text. There is no way of knowing from Berthod's collection, and although the library mentions composers like Bacilly and Le Camus, they don't seem to say who wrote which songs, and what the original words were. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Rainer Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2020 4:09 PM To: Lute net Subject: [LUTE] Ballard 1612 https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3446 Click under "Télécharger" Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Andreas Schlegel Eckstr. 6 CH-5737 Menziken Festnetz +41 (0)62 771 47 07 Mobile +41 (0)78 646 87 63 i...@lutecorner.ch -- References 1. http://societe-champenoise-de-musicologie.org/Cahiers_remois_de_musicologie.html 2. https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/meetings
[LUTE] Ballard 1612
Thanks, Jean-Marie.Denise Launay's book sounds good, so I've ordered a copy from an Oxfam shop. The book should arrive in a few days. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Jean-Marie Poirier Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2020 8:17 AM To: Stewart McCoy Cc: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ballard 1612 Incidentally, on this topic of airs spirituels in France in the 17th century, the French musicologist Denise Launay on her book « La Musique Religieuse en France du Concile de Trente à 1804 » dévotes a whole chapter, with lots of examples, to these collections for one voice with or without bass... Happy reading, Jean-Marie Le 2 févr. 2020 à 00:40, Stewart McCoy a écrit : Thanks, Rainer. Much appreciated. There are some other interesting books to be found at the same library. If you click on "Rechercher" and do a search for "luth", you'll find more tablature with a copy of Piccinini. There is also an interesting looking collection of songs by Chancy. Most intriguing are three song collections (in one volume) by François Berthod, who flourished in the 1650s. He took songs by well-known French composers, and replaced their words with a spiritual text. There is a brief Wiki article about him. On the title page of his books there is a left-handed lute-player with a six-string (single courses) lute. All the songs are for two voices - treble and bass - with both parts texted. There are no figures for the bass part, yet a chordal accompaniment on a lute or theorbo should nevertheless be possible. I would be interested to know what the songs are, to which Berthod set his spiritual text. There is no way of knowing from Berthod's collection, and although the library mentions composers like Bacilly and Le Camus, they don't seem to say who wrote which songs, and what the original words were. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Rainer Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2020 4:09 PM To: Lute net Subject: [LUTE] Ballard 1612 https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3446 Click under "Télécharger" Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] The lute list is retiring soon
Hello Wayne, Thank you very much indeed for the lute list. It has been extremely beneficial to a great many people. It has helped us learn all sorts of things about the lute and its music, share our knowledge with others, and make friends with people all over the world. You have created something valuable, which I hope will continue somehow after you have left Dartmouth College. Good luck in your forthcoming retirement. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Wayne Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 8:04 PM To: lute net Subject: [LUTE] The lute list is retiring soon Hi - I have been running this lute mail list since 1998, and it has been interesting and fun. Now I am retiring from my job at Dartmouth College, and when I retire the computers that I have run will be shut down. This includes the mail servers that run the lute mail list. So it is time to retire from running the lute mail list too. I will also be closing my lute web page, my lute tablature page, and "Lutes For Sale" web page. If someone wants to take up running the lute mail list I suggest that they announce it on my list in the next month, while my list is still running. My list runs using software that I wrote, and I don’t recommend that someone else try to use it. I don’t know the last day yet, but I will make an announcement when my list actually closes. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Fret Calculator
Dear Daniel, Equal temperament is not really so yecchh. The narrow thirds of meantone are certainly more acceptable to the ear than the wide thirds of equal temperament, but some of the chords thrown up by an unequally tempered lute can be distinctly unpleasant. Equal temperament does have its uses, and there is plenty of evidence to show that it was used for lutes and viols at least from the second half of the 16th century. Fretted instruments were regarded by some as imperfect, because of their equal temperament, unlike keyboard instruments where unequal temperaments are more viable. It is fashionable nowadays to opt for 6th-comma meantone for the lute, and I am happy to go along with that with my renaissance lute, particularly for music by Francesco da Milano and others before 1550. However, I am starting to get fed up with having to tolerate out-of-tune chords on my unequally fretted theorbo, where a wider range of keys is the order of the day. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Daniel Winheld [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 December 2008 03:04 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fret Calculator Absolutely the best procedure; what I now use. I set frets by calculation only once, about 30 years ago. Came out so bad, I ran crying back to "EQUAL" (yecchh!) until about a month or so ago- not hard at all with a good tuner (and years of training, tuning my wife's harpsichord.) The cigar will always be a temporally unstable phenomenon; what with the nature of ambient humidity, temperature, the whims of organic visceral remains under tension, and of course one's own varying perceptual state. Nevertheless, I find tuning to go faster & more easily in 1/4 comma meantone, and the instrument itself seems to hold the tuning better- now that has to be an illusion. Dan >I can't see using a fret calculator for real world tuning, tune your >open strings in the temperament you wish and then set your frets >using the tuning box. >If you wish to tweak the open strings, tune the top string, then set >each fret with the box. >Then tune the double octave to the top string, set those frets to the >box. You will notice that the frets do not make exactly straight >lines, which is normal--and shows that the fret calculator won't work. >Then adjust the open strings anyway you like. You have to have the >double octaves in tune or you will really hear it. >This is the only system that will give you the actual, as opposed to >theoretical values, as it will compensate for drift--unless you tune by ear. >You will find, of course, that you will either have to choose between >sharps and flats, especially for the first fret, or use tastini. > >The fret caluclator will get you close, but still a few millimeters >from cigar. >Have fun! >dt > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] HD
Dear David, Some very nice playing indeed. Well done. Please could you say a little about the bowed bass instrument with five strings. What is it? Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: David Tayler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 December 2008 07:59 To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] HD youtube has gone HD. Check it out--just click the HD link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNQLJ1_HQ0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNQLJ1_HQ0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNYNJ85GgGc dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Baroque mandolin
Dear Ed, Interesting looking cittern recently acquired at the Shrine: http://www.usd.edu/smm/News/acquisitions.html I note some pretty mean fretting. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03 December 2008 23:23 To: Eugene C. Braig IV; Peedu Timo; Sauvage Valéry; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Baroque mandolin Dear Eugen and all, The name of that museum is no longer "The Shrine"but the National Music Museum. http://www.usd.edu/smm/ It offers a fantastic collection of lutes an old guitars. ed It is now called At 12:24 PM 12/3/2008 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: >Now called America's Music Museum. It used to be called the Shrine >to Music Museum. Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202 cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] HD
Dear David, Many thanks for your message. I fear I am straying off topic, but please could you confirm that the 1st string is the extra string, tuned to e', a fifth above the second string a, and that all the strings are tuned in fifths. Is this instrument associated with Bach's cello suites, and if so, having the extra string would presumably make the music simpler to play. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: David Tayler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 December 2008 16:46 To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: HD cello The 5 string cello enjoyed a wave of popularity in the baroque period, in some countries it was more popular than the four string version. That's an original instrument in the tideo. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] 5 string cello
Thanks, David. All very interesting. Stewart. -Original Message- From: David Tayler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 December 2008 01:54 To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] 5 string cello Yes, it is and E a fifth above the top string is the usual tuning, and the Bach suite for 5 string cello is for this instrument. However, it is excellent for 17th century music as well, although they often used the really big cello--cellos came in two sizes. The 5 string is normally the smaller size due to the higher pitch of the top string. The large size is rare nowadays, rarer still with all gut strings. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Tablature notation guidelines
Dear Tom, Alain Veylit's Django software will convert MIDI files to tablature automatically. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2008 20:16 To: List LUTELIST; howard posner Subject: [LUTE] Re: tablature notation guidelines One feature in Finale that I find very useful is you can import a MIDI file and it will notate it automatically (errors, of course, but much quicker than starting from scratch). This is a feature I would like to see built into Fronimo. Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Arbeau/ Warlock Pavane
Dear Garry, Good to know you're still around. Arbeau's Pavane, Belle qui tiens ma vie, is the only dance tune in his _Orchesographie_ in four-part harmony. You can find the music, the words, and a translation at: http://homepages.luc.edu/~avande1/belle-qui/belle-qui-tiens-ma-vie.htm All the best, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Garry Bryan [mailto:gar...@netins.net] Sent: 12 December 2008 16:30 To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Arebeau/ Warlock Pavane Greetings! I know I've been silent for a few years, but since there's been no dearth of postings to the list, I haven't felt obligated to contribute. I've been playing a piano arrangement of Peter Warlock's "Pavane" from the Capriol Suite, and I was wondering if anyone has (or knows of) an arrangement for renaissance lute? To be more precise, I'd like to get close to Arbeau's Pavane, Feel free to contact me off-list.. I hope that you are all as well as you are ornery! Garry -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] OT: Day Job
Dear Rob, Some very nice guitar playing. Best wishes for Christmas, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:luteplay...@googlemail.com] Sent: 18 December 2008 23:22 To: lute List Subject: [LUTE] OT: Day Job This is my day job: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pafdP07YdfU&feature=channel Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pafdP07YdfU&feature=channel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute cartoons
Dear David, Thank you very much for sharing your cartoons with us. They are great fun. Many I have seen already in Clifford's Early Music Review, but others are new to me. The Jehovah's Lutenists cartoon is one of my all-time favourites. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: David Hill [mailto:da...@romanglassmakers.co.uk] Sent: 27 December 2008 12:36 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Lute cartoons This is just to inform all Lute listers that, due to popular demand, I have now scanned in reasonable quality versions of many of my Lute cartoons that were originally drawn for Clifford Bartlett's Early Music Review, and posted them on this page of our day-job website: www.romanglassmakers.co.uk/david.htm Some of these gags have been circulating already, in varying quality (I found out about this when an acquaintance sent me one, unaware that I had drawn it), so I thought I'd make them available for the refrigerators, lute cases and notice boards of the lute playing world, FREE of charge. If you are sad enough to find any of these amusing, please feel free to copy, print and use them, though if you wish to include any of them in a publication, as greetings cards or even print them onto T shirts (as has happened already!) sending a brief note to me would be nice, just to let me know where and how you'd like to use it. I probably won't charge for it, but all I ask is, please respect my intellectual property - don't change the captions (I get enough of that from Clifford!), even if you DO think of an even funnier one; don't alter details of them in Photoshop (I will happily re-draw and send you any cartoon if you want it to resemble your duo/lute/banjo consort or whatever), so please get in touch before being tempted to fiddle about! If anyone would like a better quality scan or a coloured version, please let me know, and I'll always do my best to oblige. Oh, and if you don't get a particular gag, just let me know! Best Wishes, David PS Yes, I do know that the shape of Weiss' lute case is completely wrong. I'm not Vermeer. PPS Feel free to look at the glass pages, too! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Schrade's transcription
Dear Rainer and Albert, Thank you both very much indeed for your help. I now have exactly what I was after. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: albertreyer...@kabelmail.de [mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de] Sent: 15 January 2009 09:15 To: Stewart McCoy Subject: Re: [LUTE] Schrade's transcription Please find the first transcription page attached. Regards Albert TREE EDITION Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 >> Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft - Join the German Lute Society - www.Lautengesellschaft.de<< Stewart McCoy schrieb: >I am trying to assemble examples of various ways of transcribing lute >tablature. I particularly need a copy of the first page of music from >Leo Schrade's edition of Luis Milan's _El Maestro_. If anyone could >provide this, I would be extremely grateful. > > >Best wishes, > > >Stewart McCoy. > >-- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > . > >
[LUTE] Melchior Neusidler
Dear Richard, Presumably he didn't have an 11th fret, so his 11th fret is our 12th, if you see what I mean. :-) A similar thing happens, if I remember right, in the Holmes MSS in Cambridge, where the letter "m" is used for the 12th fret. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Richard Yates [mailto:rich...@yatesguitar.com] Sent: 27 January 2009 03:06 To: 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' Subject: [LUTE] Melchior Neusidler Why does M. Neusidler (Intabolatura di Liuto, 1566) uses the symbol 'X' for the tenth fret but 'XI' for notes that would normally be on the twelfth fret? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] French Trill
Dear Mathias, At last I have been able to look at Bocquet's Allemande, the one on page 76 of the CNRS edition. It is a fine piece, and I have been playing it all evening. Thanks for pointing me in its direction. -o-O-o- As far as the trill on the first chord is concerned, I believe it should be played with an appoggiatura, producing a dissonant 9th (C2), even though the piece begins with an anticipation of a2. There are many pieces in the French style which start with a dissonance, perhaps to capture the attention of the listener, perhaps just because they relished such dissonances, so often created by an ornament. The comma ornament, as far as I know, is consistently used for an appoggiatura from above, with or without any number of turns, depending on the context and the length of the note which is being ornamented. That means I would play | | |\ | | | | |. | ___a__#e___e __a__|___a)__c)'___a___'___|_ __"__|___a_|_ _|___a_|_ _|_|_ _|_|_ ///a something like this | | |\ |\ |\|\ |\ |\ |\ | | |\ |\ |\|\ | |\ | | | |\ |\ |\|\ | |\ | | | |\ | |\| | | | ___a___c_e_e___ __a__|___c_a_c_a_c_a__d_c_d_c__'___a___'_|_ __"__|___a___|_ _|___a___|_ _|___|_ _|___|_ ///a the rhythm signs don't quite add up, but hopefully they give an idea of the sort of thing I have in mind. If the music were fast, there would only be time for an appoggiatura (one extra note) __c)__ becomes __d_c__ (always with the dissonant appoggiatura on the beat, not before), but in this piece, I think there is always time for three extra notes, so __c)__ becomes __d_c_d_c__ -o-O-o- The # sign I would interpret as an ornament from below, either __#e__ becomes ___c_e___ (e.g. bar 1, for a short note) or __#f__ becomes __e_f_e_f__ (e.g. bar 2, for a long note) holding on to that first dissonant e1 as long as possible within reason. If I am right, that # = an ornament from below, you would get as much dissonance at the start of the second section as you would at the start of the first. The ornament comes on a long chord, so I would interpret | | | | | |. __c__|__#c__ __"__|___e__ _|___e__ _|__ _|__ like this | |\|\ |\ | | |\ | | |.|\ | __c__|___a_c_a_c __"__|___e__ _|___e__ _|__ _|__ The same chord appears in the penultimate bar, but there is not enough time for a turn, so I would play _ __#c_ ___e_ ___e_ _ _ as _ ___a__c__ ___e_ ___e_ _ _ -o-O-o- There is a brief appearance of a third ornament in bar 11: e4 has a curved line below. The curved line has to be different from #, so I suggest __e__ = __a_c_e__ u Those are only my thoughts, with the limited knowledge I have of lute music from this period, so I could well be hopelessly wide of the mark. I would be very interested to know what you and other lutenetters think about my interpretation of these ornaments. Best wishes, Stewart. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Two more videos
Dear David, By the time I got there, the first clip had unfortunately been removed from YouTube. The second one, the Dialogue on a Kiss, is very nicely performed, but if ever there was a time for singers to memorise a song, this was it. You can't convincingly look lovingly into each other's eyes whispering sweet nothings, if you have to keep looking at your folder of music for inspiration. Many years ago I sat in on a singers' workshop led by Anthony Rooley and Emma Kirkby. One singer sang a long piece by Vivaldi, followed by Flow my Tears by Dowland. The former was sung from memory; the latter wasn't. Emma Kirkby asked, "Why?". She wondered if Vivaldi was perhaps being treated with more respect than Dowland. In the pop world, we don't see singers' glued to their music. Imagine Madonna performing with a folder in her hand. Just a thought. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: David van Ooijen [mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com] Sent: 01 February 2009 22:00 To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] two more videos Editing & saving takes ages, not to mention uploading, but here are two more videos: Coprario: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ-IfEJe1Ys Henry Lawes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvqrWPXr_zc David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Non-Toy Theorbo for sale
Dear Howard, You are right to say that there was considerable variety in size, shape and tuning of the theorbo. Bigger instruments tend to be better for playing in consort or accompanying a singer, because the extra size gives a fuller sound. Smaller theorboes are better for tricky solo pieces. However, there is no reason why one shouldn't use a large instrument for solos (if your hands are big enough), or a small theorbo in a consort (as long as it is sufficiently audible). There are various 17^th-century sources which tell us things about theorboes, but it is futile to dismiss them all out of hand, just because they don't happen to have exactly the wording we want, or because what they say doesn't apply to all circumstances. We have to interpret what they say as best we can, and we may sometimes draw different conclusions. Thomas Mace (Musick's Monument, p. 208) explains how the tuning is determined by the size of the instrument. Of the theorbo he writes: "By Reason of the Largeness of It, we are constrain'd to make use of an Octave Treble-String, that is, of a Thick String, which stands Eight Notes Lower, than the String of a Smaller Lute, (for no Strings can be made so Strong, that will stand to the Pitch of Consort, upon such Large Sciz'd Lutes) and for want of a Small Treble-String, the Life and Spruceness of such Ayrey Lessons, is quite lost, and the Ayre much altered. Nay, I have known, (and It cannot be otherwise) that upon some Theorboes, they have been forc'd to put an Octave String in the 2d. String's Place; by reason of the very long Scize of the Theorboe, which would not bear a Small String to Its True pitch; because of Its so great Length, and the Necessity of setting the Lute at such a High Pitch, which must Agree with the rest of the Instruments." This concurs with the points Martyn made earlier, that the tuning of the theorbo is determined by the size of the instrument. The largest theorboes need the first two courses to be tuned an octave lower, because otherwise the strings would break. Smaller instruments may be tuned the same way, of course, but there is not the same need, since the shorter strings will not necessarily break at the higher octave. Some years ago I witnessed the re-invention of the theorbo on an early music course in Latvia. The students had been lent a lute, and one of the strings broke. It was the first course. All they had to hand was a metal guitar string, but they thought that tuning it up to pitch would put too great a strain on the instrument. Nevertheless, they used the guitar string, because that was all they had, but they tuned it an octave lower to be on the safe side. They did so without knowing about theorboes. Fortunately I had some spare lute strings, so the guitar string was taken off, and the theorbo became a lute again. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: howard posner [mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com] Sent: 17 February 2009 21:54 To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Non-Toy Theorbo for sale On Feb 17, 2009, at 12:19 PM, Mark Wheeler wrote: > To be fair to Martyn, he is merely using one of the fundamentals of > historical lute stringing, the highest string is tuned to the > highest pitch > that is possible with the thinnest useable string. > * * * > This is what they did back then, before modern stringing > possibilities. I'm very leery of "they" and "then," seeing as we're talking about thousands of players and instruments over a period of 150 years or so. Does some historical source say both "highest pitch possible" and "thinnest useable string" in discussing theorbos? And if so, is there any reason to believe that every theorbist subscribed to it? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Non-Toy Theorbo for rent
Thomas Mace concurs with what Martyn Hodgson had written on 17th^h February, to wit: "Of course pitch is relevant to instrument size: as pointed out earlier, it's precisely why the top one, or two, courses were obliged to be lowered an octave. The point, as previously (and tediously) pointed out, is that historically pitch was such that the highest course(s) were obliged to be lowered an octave (as the Old Ones tell us). However, for mysterious reasons, some modern players string small theorboes with low octaves on the second course even when wholly unnecessary at the pitch in which they play." I'm afraid I can't see much difference between them. One final point. At the end of his chapter on the theorbo, having discussed harmony and how to realise a figured bass, Mace explains, by implication, why re-entrant tunings may not be so aesthetically pleasing. On page 230 he writes: "Yet Note One Thing more, That (when we Talk of 3d's, 5th's, and 8th's) we are not Precisely Tyed to give just Those the very Notes to our Bass; but still according to our Best Conveniency, upon the Instrument; sometimes 10th's, 12th's, or 15th's; as you may perceive, I have done in some of Those Examples I set you; which are as the same Thing in Composition: For sometimes you will be very much put to It, to find your Parts Conveniently; especially when the Bass moves in the Lower Sphear; nor will your Parts be so Pleasant to It, if taken Near; but far Better Above, in Their Eights." Mace prefers the bright sound, for example, of 10ths above the bass, rather than gloomy 3rds, particularly when the bass line goes low. This concurs with his comments about losing "Life and Spruceness": a re-entrant tuning will turn many an ayrey 10th^ into a lifeless, spruceless 3rd. You will be right, of course, to say that things are not quite as simple as all that. I have confined my attention to Thomas Mace, but other theorbo players in England and abroad in the 17th century, will no doubt have had their own views, which are not necessarily the same as his. I know less about these characters, and would welcome more information about them. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. PS Thanks for your message about Praetorius, which has just come in. I am sure there is much we can learn from him. -Original Message- From: howard posner [mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com] Sent: 18 February 2009 02:28 To: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Non-Toy Theorbo for rent On Feb 17, 2009, at 3:42 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote: >There are various 17^th-century sources which tell us things about >theorboes, but it is futile to dismiss them all out of hand, just >because they don't happen to have exactly the wording we want, or >because what they say doesn't apply to all circumstances. Nobody suggested doing anything of the sort. I was responding to a categorical statement that "what they did back then" was tune "to the highest pitch that is possible with the thinnest useable string." If I read a statement like that, I immediately ask: 1. Who was THEY? There were players all over Europe, and we know that there were drastic differences in the sound of their instruments; e.g. Mersenne's comment that archlutes in Italy were louder than French theorbos (a suspicious statement, I know, since I doubt he heard them side by side, but still in line with what we know of Italian and French style of the day). 2. When was THEN? 1603? 1712? Was the the theorbo player in Handel's Giulio Cesare in London in 1724 stringing and playing his instrument the same way as the third theorbo player in Monteverdi's Orfeo in 1610? 3. What is the "thinnest useable string"? Is "thinnest useable" a valid concept? Assuming it is, what does it mean? The thinnest string that won't break as soon as you put it on and tune it up? Not likely. More likely the thinnest string that will give you a sound you like, which is to say, the criterion is not maximum thinness (which has been scientifically proven to equal minimum thickness) but the optimum thickness, which is to say the thickness the player likes, which is to say the whole concept of "thinnest useable string" is meaningless. This is one reason I was curious to know if any historical source says "highest pitch possible with the thinnest useable string." >"By Reason of the Largeness of It, we are constrain'd to make > use of an >Octave Treble-String, that is, of a Thick String, which stands > Eight >Notes Lower, than the St
[LUTE] Laurent de La Hyre
Dear Jaroslav, You hook the gut on to one of the buttons of your coat to stabilise the lute while you are holding it. I seem to remember Mersenne mentioning it. See also Robert Spencer's article on the theorbo in Early Music. It is likely that Mouton is holding his lute this way in the famous picture of him. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Jaros^3aw Lipski [mailto:jaroslawlip...@wp.pl] Sent: 21 February 2009 18:06 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre Oh, I've forgot 2 other interesting details. The frets are double (except last 2), made of a thin gut with knots on the treble side. Both theorbo and the lute on the table has a folded double piece of gut going in the middle of the back (longside). It starts from the end pin (which is visible on the theorbo) and ends on the white spot (glue?) close to the place where the body meets the neck. There is a loop attached to the long gut - maybe some sort of the system for keeping the instrument while playing. I don't think it served for hanging the instrument on the wall. They wouldn't waist such a long piece of gut for this purpose. I hang it with a very short piece of used string attached to the peg box. Best Jaroslaw -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Laurent de La Hyre
Dear Jaroslav, It's unlikely to be glue. It should be a little ivory peg like you get at the tail end of the lute for fitting a strap. You tie the gut tight between the two pegs, so that the gut lies flush with the ribs. All the best, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Jaros³aw Lipski [mailto:jaroslawlip...@wp.pl] Sent: 21 February 2009 22:01 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre BTW, am I right that the gut is fixed with some glue near the neck (white spot)? JL - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" To: "Lute Net" Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 10:14 PM Subject: [LUTE] Laurent de La Hyre > Dear Jaroslav, > > > You hook the gut on to one of the buttons of your coat to stabilise the > lute while you are holding it. I seem to remember Mersenne mentioning > it. See also Robert Spencer's article on the theorbo in Early Music. It > is likely that Mouton is holding his lute this way in the famous > picture of him. > > > Best wishes, > > > Stewart McCoy. > > > -Original Message- > From: Jaros^3aw Lipski [mailto:jaroslawlip...@wp.pl] > Sent: 21 February 2009 18:06 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre > > > Oh, I've forgot 2 other interesting details. > > > The frets are double (except last 2), made of a thin gut with knots > on > > the treble side. > > > Both theorbo and the lute on the table has a folded double piece of > gut > > going in the middle of the back (longside). It starts from the end > pin > > (which is visible on the theorbo) and ends on the white spot (glue?) > > close to the place where the body meets the neck. There is a loop > > attached to the long gut - maybe some sort of the system for keeping > > the instrument while playing. I don't think it served for hanging > the > > instrument on the wall. They wouldn't waist such a long piece of gut > > for this purpose. I hang it with a very short piece of used string > > attached to the peg box. > > > > > Best > > > Jaroslaw > > > -- > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > >
[LUTE] Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]
Dear Daniel, The point about keeping one's lute in bed is all about damp causing damage to the lute. A bed which is constantly used will be as dry a place as you can find for the lute, as long as you avoid the sweat etc between the sheets. Mace presents this gem of advice in an amusing way. Unfortunately the passage is often quoted out of context, laughed at, and misunderstood. People end up thinking that's all he had to say, that he was eccentric, cranky, unreliable, to be treated with caution, etc. Nothing could be more ridiculous. Mace was a player of the lute, viol and theorbo, a composer, an enthusiast, and he certainly knew what he was writing about. He could see that the music he had loved all his life - English music - was going out of fashion, and wanted to preserve as much useful, practical information as he could, for future generations, i.e. for us. We should read the book, and be grateful. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Daniel Winheld [mailto:dwinh...@comcast.net] Sent: 27 February 2009 16:41 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?] >What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'. > >(Descartes last words here) >dt "Don't walk away, René..." Storing lutes in beds. Smashed more theorbi than the airlines. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Comma, again
Dear Mathias, I agree with Martin. The length of an ornament (or grace) is determined by the length of the note, so # for a short note might be an upper mordent, but it could be a long trill if the note was long enough. Presumably the backfall grew into the appoggiatura. By the way, Dowland wrote about graces in one of his songs, "Comma again .. thy graces that refraine, to do me due delight". All the best, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Martin Shepherd [mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk] Sent: 06 March 2009 08:10 To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Comma, again Oops, I meant this to go to the list as well... Dear Mathias, The comma usually means a backfall - there are lots of nice examples in the ML (Sturt) lute book. When you have all three signs like this the implication is that the + sign is a forefall or double forefall (=wholefall, up two notes to the main note). The shake isn't necessarily a mordent - it can be a longer shake. Best wishes, Martin Mathias Rösel wrote: > Dear Collected Wisdom, > > the John Sturt lute ms. (London BM 38539) contains an almayne by Robert > Johnson on fol. 20v (named Hit and Take It, according to ed. Albert > Sunderman). > > There are three ornaments, viz. simple cross, double cross, and comma, > each set to the left of the related letter. Now, if + is a fall (Martin) > or a dissonance (Stewart), # is a shake = mordent or upper mordent > (Stewart), then what does that comma mean? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Comma, again
___d_b_b_a_b_a_b_a_||_ |__|_a___||_ _a__|__|_||_ |_a|_c___d___||_ a a [To keep things simple, I have kept Vallet's rhythm signs as he had them, but they do not, of course, apply to the extra notes I have added in.] Vallet is quite clear that both ornaments are essentially the same - "semblable a la precedente" - and that one's choice is largely determined by the length of the note being ornamented. Vivez Heureux, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: David Tayler [mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: 07 March 2009 17:41 To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Comma, again The length of the note does not specifically determine the length of the ornament, since that would in many cases break the rules of counterpoint and voice leading. In addition, there are many different ways to play a specific ornament, some of which are reversed in rhythm, some of which are simply shorter, some of which are medial. The classic example is the port de voix, which is performed shorter at the end of a piece than in the middle of piece, and that is only one example. However, as a general rule if the grace note is using the two thirds rule as a broad guideline, a longer note will have a longer ornament, however that is still subject to the other factors, of which parallel fifths is the most common, as well as the position within the piece, or, in the case of a texted piece, or a piece based on a texted piece, whether the ornament is connected with a specific affect. Because of these factors, ornaments are performed very differently depending on whether the bass line is moving or not, as well as whether the bass is stepwise or skippy, approached from above or below, and so on. The use of ornaments is presumably one of the main reasons for the "number" system of counterpoint in use at the end of the renaissance, as well as its implications for the study of figured bass--obviously, the ornament at a cadence changes the figures. dt t 02:01 PM 3/6/2009, you wrote: >Dear Mathias, > >I agree with Martin. The length of an ornament (or grace) is determined >by the length of the note, so # for a short note might be an upper >mordent, but it could be a long trill if the note was long enough. >Presumably the backfall grew into the appoggiatura. > >By the way, Dowland wrote about graces in one of his songs, "Comma again >.. thy graces that refraine, to do me due delight". > >All the best, > >Stewart. > >-Original Message- >From: Martin Shepherd [mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk] >Sent: 06 March 2009 08:10 >To: Lute List >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Comma, again > >Oops, I meant this to go to the list as well... > >Dear Mathias, > >The comma usually means a backfall - there are lots of nice examples in >the ML (Sturt) lute book. When you have all three signs like this the >implication is that the + sign is a forefall or double forefall >(=wholefall, up two notes to the main note). The shake isn't >necessarily a mordent - it can be a longer shake. > >Best wishes, > >Martin > > >Mathias Rösel wrote: > > Dear Collected Wisdom, > > > > the John Sturt lute ms. (London BM 38539) contains an almayne by >Robert > > Johnson on fol. 20v (named Hit and Take It, according to ed. Albert > > Sunderman). > > > > There are three ornaments, viz. simple cross, double cross, and comma, > > each set to the left of the related letter. Now, if + is a fall >(Martin) > > or a dissonance (Stewart), # is a shake = mordent or upper mordent > > (Stewart), then what does that comma mean? > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbos at 10 paces
Dear Howard, I have looked at the picture, and it is definitely Bill Carter. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: howard posner [mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com] Sent: 26 March 2009 16:31 To: Lutelist LUTELIST Subject: [LUTE] Theorbos at 10 paces Say what you will about Los Angeles Times critic Mark Swed's review of the English Concert in this morning's paper, it at least concentrated on the important stuff. Here's the beginning: > The battle of the bands did not go so far as theorbos at 10 paces. > Its a good thing too. Those strikingly tall 17th century lutes > could probably make decent weapons. And frankly, the outcome of a > match between Londons two best-known period instrument groups, > both of which appeared in Southern California in recent days, > wouldnt have been pretty. > > Under its burly music director, Richard Egarr, the Academy of > Ancient Music, which played Bachs Brandenburg Concertos on > Friday in Orange County, is a band of bruisers. Dressed in black, > they attacked Bach with raw, macho, exhilarating power and not a > lot of finesse. The AAMs theorbo player strummed furiously, > rocking the Renée and Henry Segerstrom Concert Hall as if he were > the Bruce Springsteen of the long lute. > > The English Concert, now led by Harry Bicket, a popular opera > conductor, came to Walt Disney Concert Hall on Tuesday. There was > a theorbo to be seen but not to be heard, so delicately was this > lute plucked. But the player fit right in with the formal, polite > ensemble, whose members sported white ties and tails. Bach, on the > first half of the program, was played as if it were fragile musical > china set out for teatime. Handel, after intermission, had more > drama. > The rest of the review can be seen at: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2009/03/david-daniels- a.html I find it interesting, BTW, that AAM would bring a theorbo along on a tour apparently devoted exclusively to the Brandenburgs. I wasn't at the concert (or the English concert one, though I wrote the program notes for it) but it appears to be a theorbo, not an archlute, from the picture accompanying Swed's review of that concert: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2009/03/academy-of- anci.html Does someone have a positive ID on the player? Bill Carter, perhaps? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Squares in a Treble
In The Schoole of Musicke (London, 1603), Thomas Robinson writes about ornamentation as follows: " Now you shall have a generall rule to grace it, as with pashionate play, and relishing it: and note that the longer the time is of a single stroke, that the more neede it hath of a relish, for a relish will help, both to grace it, and also it helps to continue the sound of the note his full time: but in a quicke time a little touch or jerke will serue, and that onely with the most strongest finger. Passionate play is to runne some part of the squares in a Treble (that is foure and foure) first loud, then soft, and so in a decorum, now louder, now softer, (not in extremitie of either) but as companie of other instruments, or farnesse off giveth occasion" Please could someone explain the meaning of "Passionate play is to runne some part of the squares in a Treble (that is foure and foure)"? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Squares in a Treble
Many thanks to Howard, Ed, David, and Ron for your thoughts on squares in a treble. I find it interesting that Thomas Robinson regards divisions as a form of passionate play, or (as I understand it) playing with expression. Tobias Hume talks about playing passionate too. I wonder what other references there are to passionate play, humouring a lesson, or generally playing with expression, and if divisions come into the equation. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Squares in a Treble
Thanks, Dana. An enjoyable tale. :-) However, I had in mind Tobias Hume, who, for the first couple of bars of his viol piece called "Deth" (no. 12 in _The First Part of Ayres_ (London, 1605)), he wrote "Play this pashenat after every straine". Then a bit further on, he cancels it out with "Play this as it stands". In other words, as far as Hume is concerned, there are two ways of performing a piece: "pashenat", and "as it stands". Elsewhere he indicates pizzicato - e.g. "your finger as before" - and col legno - "Drum this with the backe of your Bow". Such things are unfortunately rare, so I would be interested to know of similar indications, not just for the lute, but for other instruments too. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us [mailto:dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us] Sent: 07 April 2009 00:42 To: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Squares in a Treble On Mon, Apr 6, 2009, Stewart McCoy said: > I wonder what other references there are to passionate play I am reminded of an incident from my youth, singing in a madrigal group. We often began practice with a backrub chain and were all good friends, many had dated each other, some were paired for later marriage. One of the young ladies with whom I was particularly friendly (tho not intimate) attended straight from work, sans music, we shared mine. She being short, and I being tall, she sat in my lap and held the large loose-leaf binder while I peered over her shoulder. All was cozy and comfy for us, and as I was singing bass, she commented on the unexpected physical sensation of my resonant middle pressed up to her back and bottom. I suppose it might have led to a serious distraction as other young ladies might have insisted on trying out this new experience, but the director would have no more of it and insisted on more conventional seating. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Iconographia ruthenica
Dear Roman, Thank you for sharing this with us. I am amazed at the extraordinary variety - some short and fat, others long and thin, some plain, others more decorative - I would never have thought that you could have so many different types of moustache. There's lots of variety with the pipes and instruments too. :-) All the best, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: Roman Turovsky [mailto:r.turov...@verizon.net] Sent: 16 April 2009 01:24 To: Lutelist Subject: [LUTE] iconographia ruthenica For your perusal and delectation more images of Ukrainian lutes added to http://www.torban.org/mamai/ . RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Milan's tablature?
Dear Howard, There are four short pieces for the four-course guitar in Barberiis' _Libro Decimo_ (venice, 1549). The pieces are described as "Fantasie per sonar sopra la Chitara da sette corde". The tablature for all the lute pieces in the book is Italian, but it is Spanish/ Milan tablature for the guitar pieces. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of howard posner Sent: 07 May 2009 17:47 To: lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Milan's tablature? Can anyone think of a source other than Luis Milan in which the tablature uses numbers with the high string at the top? I'm pretty sure I've seen it, but can't recall where? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Milan's tablature?
Dear Reinier, Strictly speaking the tablature in Francesco's book is Neapolitan, i.e. numbers the right way up, but also with the open strings as number 1. That means all the numbers are one out from what you would normally expect. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Reinier de Valk Sent: 07 May 2009 18:15 To: howard posner; lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: Milan's tablature? Dear Howard, What comes to my mind immediately is Francesco da Milano's Intavolatura de viola o vero lauto, libro secondo -- perhaps that is what you are looking for? Kind regards, Reinier - Original Message - From: "howard posner" To: "lutelist" Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 6:46 PM Subject: [LUTE] Milan's tablature? > Can anyone think of a source other than Luis Milan in which the tablature > uses numbers with the high string at the top? I'm pretty sure I've seen > it, but can't recall where? > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute recordings in meantone
Dear Rob, This is a very interesting site. Congratulations on your nice playing at: http://classic-banjo.ning.com/video/electric-light-reel-picnic Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Rob MacKillop Sent: 22 May 2009 23:00 To: Roman Turovsky Cc: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute recordings in meantone There may be one or two of you interested in the banjo c.1860-1900 (as I am). There was a period of squabbles and unrest as players moved from fretless instruments to fretted ones. Many of the old (fretless) guys complained that the new frets forced you to play out of tune. Some makers responded by manufacturing instruments with split frets, as in this photo: [1]http://classic-banjo.ning.com/photo/zb-split-fret-detail?context=lat est The note in question is the third of a major chord - in A tuning (the older pitch - pitch rose to C tuning during this period) the C# was more called for than a Db. Rob -- References 1. http://classic-banjo.ning.com/photo/zb-split-fret-detail?context=latest To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute songs or pieces for wedding occasion
Dear Grzegorz, John Dowland's "Welcome, black night" is epithalamic. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Grzegorz Joachimiak Sent: 17 June 2009 09:34 To: Mathias Rösel Cc: lute List Subject: [LUTE] Odp: Re: lute songs or pieces for wedding occasion Why not, I forgot it. Thanks:) Do you associate more pieces like Dowlands Come again? Grzegorz Dnia 17-06-2009 o godz. 10:15 "Mathias Rösel" napisał(a): > How about e. g. Come Again? > > Mat > > "Grzegorz Joachimiak" schrieb: > > Dear friends, > > > > do you know any songs for lute with soprano or only lute pieces, wrotes > > for the wedding special occasion? > > > > Grzegorz > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Lato 2009 nadchodzi. Wybierz swoje wymarzone wakacje. Sprawdź oferty: http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fwakacje2009.h tml&sid=765
[LUTE] The Galliard
Dear David, It was Margaret Donnington, Robert's sister (I think), who first explained to me (on an early music course for viols in Cheltenham in 1973) that there were two basic sorts of galliard: 1) The fast galliard, where you have five jumps in the air - 1, 2, 3, 4, wait, 5. 2) The slow galliard, where the dancer puts in an extra step for an "and" - 1 and, 2 and, 3 and, 4 and, wait and, 6. The fast galliard would be suitable for 16th-century galliards like those published in Paris by Pierre Attaingnant. The slow galliard is more energetic, because of all the extra little steps, and would be suitable for galliards like John Dowland's Earl of Essex Galliard. This idea of there being two galliard types I heard re-iterated some years later by Layton Ring on one of the Lute Society courses at Cheltenham. He demonstrated how it would be impossible to play The Earl of Essex Galliard at the speed of someone dancing the fast galliard. Margaret Donnington and Layton Ring both made the same distinction between the two galliard types, but unfortunately I don't know what their evidence was. If anyone can tell me, I would be very interested to know. Whether or not they were right, I have found from playing Dowland's galliards, that it is a good idea to start by counting: "1 and, 2 and, 3, and", which helps you hold the speed back from the outset. I am sure Howard Posner is right in suggesting that there were many galliard speeds depending on several factors, and that like so many other dances, the galliard slowed down gradually over the years. Thomas Morley, in _A Plaine and Easie Introduction to Practicall Musicke_ (London, 1597), p. 181, says that the speed of the galliard is related to the speed of the pavan which precedes it: "After every pavan usually set a galliard (that is, a kind of musicke we made out of the other) causing it go by a measure, which the learned cal _trochaieam rationem_, consisting of a long and short stroke successivelie, for as the foote _trochaeus_ consisteth of one sillable of two times, and another of one time, so is the first of these two strokes double to the latter: the first beeing in time of a semibrefe, and the latter of a minime. This is a lighter and more stirring kinde of dauncing then the pavane consisting of the same number of straines, and looke howe manie foures of semibreves, you put in the straine of your pavan, so many times sixe minimes must you put in the straine of youre galliard." I think it is important not to let a casual glance at the music give you a fixed idea of what the speed should be. For example, it is possible to play the so-called "Sinkapace galliard" quite quickly. I mean the piece which starts |\ |\ |\ |\ | ||\ | | |. | | _fd__c__a __d__d__d__|_d___d__c__dd__|_ __d__d__d__|_d___d__d__a__c|_ __a__a_|_a___a_|_ ___|a__c___|_ ___|___|_ [to be read with Courier font] That is how the start of the dance appears in Adriaenssen's _Pratum Musicum_ (Antwerp, 1584), f. 81v. However, a little further on Adriaenssen gives the same piece with written-out divisions, "La mesme plus diminuee." Instead of a straightforward |\ |\ | |\ | | _a__ _ca__c__d__c__|_ _d_d__b_b__a__|_ __c__a__c_|_ _a__c_a_a_|_ c_d___|_ he gives the somewhat daunting |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ |\ | |\ |\ | | |\ _a__a_ _c__a___a_c_d_a_c_d___d_c_a_d_c_d_c_a_c_|_ _d__a_c_d_a_c_d___d_|_ |_ _a__c___a___|_ c___d___d___|_ The divisions might make one re-think what the tempo of the piece should be. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David van Ooijen Sent: 12 July 2009 07:22 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: The Galliard On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 7:45 AM, Franz Mechsner wrote: > wrote it with the cat on y lap and forgot editing... if this is kind of > an excuse... ... the best possible. You could start with R
[LUTE] The Galliard
Dear Dan, A fundamentally important question, and I hope many people will give their thoughts. I certainly wouldn't want to go much faster than minim = 120, but there are details which trouble me about the piece. In the setting for five viols/violins with lute, the lute has a couple of semiquavers in the first bar of the second section. In the consort version printed by Thomas Morley, there are eight semiquavers (halved to demi-semiquavers in Sydney Beck's edition) half way through the second section. I don't think these could be played (each note plucked separately, not slurred) at minim = 120. A speed of minim = 110 would be pushing it. If I had to choose a speed for those notes to be cleanly played, I would want something more in the region of minim = 100, but no slower. It's at that kind of speed where the count of 1 and, 2 and, 3 and, comes into its own to hold you back in the first bar. The Earl of Essex Galliard has the words "Can she excuse". If you think Essex is angry, you might want a speed as fast as you can go. If you think he is being more reflective about what could have been, a slower speed might be more suitable. I notice that the Julian Bream consort plays the consort version followed by the song at about minim = 114, and he fudges the eight semiquavers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZXfHhLebVE Also available on YouTube is a performance of the song by Valeria Mignaco and Alfonso Marin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fMk6YW6Xhk&feature=related Their speed is about minim = 126, although they slow down here and there to avoid it being relentless. It is an exciting speed, but not feasible for the consort version. The group Musica Ficta de Buenos Aires go a little faster than minim = 126. It is a bit of a scramble, and they slow down at the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKgkY85pMF0&feature=PlayList&p=29ABA0FC09 CDAA5D&index=0&playnext=1 I think their speed is too fast. I wonder if singers and their accompanists agree on a fast tempo, partly because the music is simple in enough to take it. Lutenists struggling with the consort setting will be looking for slower speeds, because otherwise they won't be able to play all the fast notes. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Winheld Sent: 24 July 2009 15:03 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: The Galliard Could someone suggest a likely metronome tempo? >It's possible. >dt > > This idea of there being two galliard types I heard re-iterated some > years later by Layton Ring on one of the Lute Society courses at > Cheltenham. He demonstrated how it would be impossible to play The Earl > of Essex Galliard at the speed of someone dancing the fast galliard. > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] The Galliard
Dear David, Many thanks for the link. I measured your performance closer to minim = 112, which is, I think, a very good speed for the piece. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David van Ooijen Sent: 24 July 2009 20:50 To: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: The Galliard On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote: > version printed by Thomas Morley, there are eight semiquavers (halved to I have a recording on my pages (scroll to somewhere over halfway): http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/soundclips_f.html I think it's somewhere near 110. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] The Galliard
Dear David, Many thanks for the link to your recording with Erica Schuller. Lucky you - she has a very nice voice. I measure your speed as just short of minim = 126. (My metronome measures minim = 120 and minim = 126, but nothing in between.) The song works well at that speed, although I wouldn't want it much faster. The notes of the song are relatively straightforward, so many different speeds are possible. However, Thomas Morley's consort setting is a different kettle of fish. One wants to be able to play all those semiquavers, yet not sacrifice a good speed for the sake of eight notes. To be practical, if there was a less able lutenist who really couldn't get his hands round those semiquavers, I would advise him to simplify those eight notes, rather than play the piece too slowly. By the way, I don't think it is necessarily a good thing to be able to sing the whole of the last line in one breath. Singers are trained to sing long lines, and that can certainly help the musical side of things, but so often with lute songs, the meaning of the words comes over more clearly, if sentences are chopped up into smaller groups. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[1]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler Sent: 24 July 2009 23:21 To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: The Galliard I recorded this at minim=140 with tenor Jeffrey Thomas, in retrospect it might have been a bit fast. He could really declaim the text perfectly. Above 120 and you can easily do the whole last section in one breath. Here's another version, I think it is a reasonable tempo, about the same as Valeria and Alfonso I think. [2]http://www.vimeo.com/5735296 One thing about learning it really fast, is that you reach a point and say, this is garbage. Then you slow it down a bit. I think if you look at all the performances of this piece, you will see every tempo imaginable, not just a slow and a fast version. dt -- References 1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://www.vimeo.com/5735296 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Manuscript additions to Denss
Dear Howard, Some time ago you were asking about tablature sources where the tablature is like Luis Milan's, i.e. Italian tablature upside down. I notice that there is some music added to one of Denss's books, which is in this kind of tablature: http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00031268/images/index.ht ml?id=00031268&fip=88.106.240.211&no=&seite=51 Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of G. Crona Sent: 26 August 2009 12:19 To: Lute mailing list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ein Newgeordent Kuenstlich Lautenbuch Where you'll also find: Denss Waissel Ochsenkuhn Bakfark + guitar & continuo stuff - Original Message - From: "Karl-L. Eggert" To: "Lute mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [english 100%] Re: Hans NeusiedleRe: Ein Newgeordent Kuenstlich Lautenbuch > Hi all, > there are also manuscripts digitalized. Go to "Suche" > [1]http://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/index.html?c=suchen&l=de > and enter the Stichwort: Mus.ms > you'll get a list of all ms. Click at any to see the pics. > Karl > - Original Message - > From: "David van Ooijen" <[2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com> > To: <[3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:40 AM > Subject: [english 100%] [LUTE] Re: Hans NeusiedleRe: Ein Newgeordent > Kuenstlich Lautenbuch > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Matteo > > Turri<[4]matteo.o.tu...@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> The Bavarian State Library provides a number of digitizations of > sheet > >> music > > > > Great resource. Pity the mss are not available. Anybody know if this > > is planned, too? > > > > David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Imbalance
Dear Monica, I don't think it is sad at all. We all have the opportunity to contribute to this list, whether we are men or women. The choice is ours. If there happen to be more men than women in Peter Martin's sample, so be it. That's the way it is. You could as well do a survey, as I did some years ago, to see how many contributors to the list had beards. Of those who responded, 70% had beards, and none of them was a woman. Donatella Galetti was the only female lute-netter to respond to the survey, and she confirmed that she didn't have a beard. (See the archives for 19th December 2004.) There have always been women who play the lute, at least as long as lutes were around. I have in mind those sideways-on pictures of women plucking lute-like instruments in ancient Egyptian pictures. You have only to look at a few old paintings from renaissance times to see a multitude of female lutenists, including our good Queen Elizabeth. As far as sources are concerned, we have the Jane Pickeringe lute book, the Margaret Board lute book, and the M (probably for Margaret) L lute book. A little later we have Mary Burwell's lute book and Lady Wemyss' book. There is the Thynne lute book, and one of the family members who used it was a young lady to be seen in a painting holding her lute. Some important patrons of music were women, including Isabella d'Este and Margaret of Austria in the early part of the 16th century. Even in times when women were treated very differently from men, music was a pursuit where women could flourish. So strongly was music seen to be associated with women, that macho Tobias Hume felt it necessary to confess that music was the only effeminate part of him. The situation is no different today. I think of Paula Chateauneuf, Lynda Sayce, Elizabeth Kenny, and many other women, who play the lute extremely well, and there are plenty of women who are fine musicologists too. It is a nonsense to say that the lute is a man's world, as if there were some latent prejudice we need to feel guilty about. We have enough barmy political correctness imposed upon us in other walks of life. May we be preserved from it here. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Monica Hall Sent: 10 September 2009 13:17 To: David Tayler Cc: Lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: Imbalance It is indeed a sad story. I suspect this is also the case in the classical guitar world which may have a knock on effect. It's still a man's world. Monica - Original Message - From: "David Tayler" To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:06 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Imbalance > It is a sad story. > d > > > At 12:54 AM 9/10/2009, you wrote: >>Of the last 100 individuals to post to this list, 95 were men. Is >> this >>representative of the wider lute world? Any ideas why? >> >>Peter >> >>-- >> >> >>To get on or off this list see list information at >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
[LUTE] Imbalance
Dear Stuart, Some years ago Jon Banks made a CD with the early music group Sirinu, which included some of those early 16th century lute trios. The trios made up about one third of the CD. I always take Jon's edition to Lute Society playing events, but the music never gets played. The rhythms are difficult, and few lutenists are happy to read staff notation. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[1]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Stuart Walsh Sent: 11 September 2009 23:36 To: nedma...@aol.com Cc: dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Imbalance nedma...@aol.com wrote: > I guess we were pretty good sight readers, Stuart. I had studed > percussion since Jr. High and was playing drums professionally at the > time. The other 'lutenists' were very good players - conservatory > trained - on their respective modern instruments. So we all did well > with the rhythmic complexities. Also, required at the workshop were > daily classes in doing exercises from Hindemith's Elementary Training > for Musicians. By the time you get into the third or fourth chapter > of that, you're having fun with rhythms! As a drummer, it was > actually the rhythmic 'interest' characteristic of much early > music that initially attracted me. Another memorable evening was > spent listening to recorder players trying to read through "Christe > Crosse" from T. Morley's "A Plain and Easy Introduction to Music" (if > I remember the title correctly). One would have to look to > contemporary - or at least modern - musical works to find similar > rhythmic complexity, I think. > > Ned > We had a classically-trained violinist stay with us for a while (Bartok no problem etc) - and I put some fifteenth century music in front of her (I chose something quite tricky!) and she was really quite flummoxed - for a couple of minutes anyway, but then sorted it out. What I find most shocking/surprising in this kind of music (as it is realised in modern editions) is seeing what looks like a simple melodic line which, if it were in 4/4 would be a simple as could be. But it's not on the the beat at all! But there is a beat and some of the other parts may be playing it - or not. (I can put up some juicy examples if anyone is interested) Jon Banks has been championing a repertoire (some textless chansons and other things) from around 1500 which he argues is for lute trio (or a trio of plucked instruments, probably of different sizes). He has written a book about it and the Lute Society (UK) has published some of the pieces. I have worked on some of the pieces (as an amateur) and I still don't feel at all confident at trying to play them with others. I'd be interested to know who is playing them. Stuart -- References 1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute and Harp duets
Dear Charles, There are many pictures of lute and harp duets from the 15th century. You may find suitable music from that period. It is possible that the lute noodled around with high, fast notes, while the harp played slower notes. I would look for pieces with a fancy upper part for the lute. Many years ago I arranged some of the trios in the Mellon chansonnier as lute duets: lute 1 took the top line, and lute 2 the lowest two lines. Some pieces worked extremely well like that. I suggest you try doing the likewise, but substitute the harp for lute 2. Please let us know how you get on. All the best, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Browne Sent: 16 October 2009 08:06 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] [Lute] Lute and Harp duets Greetings! does anyone on the list have any experience of playing duets with a harp (either renaissance or baroque lute)? I would be grateful for some help in terns of possible repertoire! Thanks Charles To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Great new spam-scheme! Re: Lessons/booking
Dear Peter, Thanks very much for the warning. A message from Benjamin Morgan arrived in my Inbox along with your message, and I had wondered what it was all about. Now I know. Barge poles spring to mind. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Martin Sent: 19 October 2009 13:00 To: Lute list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Great new spam-scheme! Re: Lessons/booking Same phone number, different scam, taking thousands off unsuspecting wedding planners: [1]http://vrccreative.blogspot.com/2008/05/wedding-planners-beware-of-t obi-and.html Stay away! P 2009/10/19 David van Ooijen <[2]d.v.ooi...@planet.nl> Look what the cat brought in this morning! David - was recently harassed by repeated phone calls from Africa by a Nigerian spammer asking for my banking details ... Mayor bother, the guy didn't stop caling me for days. -- Forwarded message -- From: Benjamin Morgan <[3]benjaminmorga...@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 5:11 AM Subject: Lessons/booking To: [4]d.v.ooi...@planet.nl Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-Path: [5]anonym...@192-168-253-173.dedicated.abac.net X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2009 03:09:21.0741 (UTC) FILETIME=[8DFC97D0:01CA5069] X-RecipientDomain: [6]planet.nl Hello My name is Benjamin Morgan. I am writing this on behalf of my friends. We would be in the country for a month dance holiday. As part of our holiday plan, we have decided to have some guitar lessons for beginners. What instrument and styles of music do you teach? How long have you taught guitar lessons? What is your musical education background? What is your payment policy? Do we need our own guitar, or can we alternatively hire a guitar? Date: 1st December 2009 to 22nd December 2009. Number of persons: 6 (Adults). Time: 1 to 2 hours daily (evening time). I would appreciate it if you could teach us the following Proper Techniques in Guitar Playing Basic Music Rudiments and Musical Terms Ability To Read Musical Notes And Guitar Tablature Comprehensive Study of Finger Picking Styles Extensive Chord Knowledge and Chord Progressions Kindly get back to me with the confirmation and charges per hour. Best Regards, Benjamin Morgan 11th Floor The McLaren Building 35 Dale End Birmingham United Kingdom B4 7LN Phone:+447011121989 To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Peter Martin Belle Serre La Caulie 81100 Castres France tel: 0033 5 63 35 68 46 mob: 0044 7971 232614 e: [8]peter.l...@gmail.com [9]www.silvius.co.uk -- References 1. http://vrccreative.blogspot.com/2008/05/wedding-planners-beware-of-tobi- and.html 2. mailto:d.v.ooi...@planet.nl 3. mailto:benjaminmorga...@yahoo.co.uk 4. mailto:d.v.ooi...@planet.nl 5. mailto:anonym...@192-168-253-173.dedicated.abac.net 6. http://planet.nl/ 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. mailto:peter.l...@gmail.com 9. http://www.silvius.co.uk/
[LUTE] Mr Strange Gregory hitts J. Whitfield
Dear Stuart, "Mr Strangs Gregery hitts" is in only one source - Cambridge University Library, Dd.2.11. There might well be a bar missing from the first strain, but it is impossible to be sure what the missing notes are or where they should be. The attribution to John Whitfield is incorrect. On folio 9v is a piece called "The Scottish Hunt's Up". The scribe, thought to be Matthew Holmes, couldn't fit all the music for that piece onto the page (9v), so he wrote the last few bars at the very bottom of the next folio (10r), and added the attribution to John Whitfield. On folio 10r Holmes copied Holborne's Ploravit Pavan and Lushier's Almain. He had a little bit of space left on folio 10r, so he copied "Mr Strangs Gregery hitts", with all the letters squashed up close together. Unfortunately he couldn't get to the end of the piece, so he put the last bit after the end of "The Scottish Hunt's Up" in the bottom right-hand corner of the page. These last few notes of "Mr Strangs Gregery hitts" got tangled up with "J. Whitfield", which explains how the false attribution arose. What puzzles me is why Holmes didn't carry on copying "The Scottish Hunt's Up" at the top of folio 10r. Perhaps he copied the Holborne and Lushier pieces before he had finished "The Scottish Hunt's Up". At all events, "Mr Strangs Gregery hitts" was copied last. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Stuart Walsh Sent: 12 November 2009 21:45 To: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Mr Strange Gregory hitts J. Whitfield Talking of 'Lute News', every issue has a supplement of pieces edited by John H. Robinson. The latest is "Twenty Continental Preludes and Exercisesfrom CUL MS 3056." He must have edited hundreds and hundreds of pieces over the years. Anyway, in 2000 Lute News no56, "Lute Music Ascribed or Dedicated to John Whitfield, Greene and Southwell", the second piece has this very strange title: "Mr Strange Gregory hitts J. Whitfield". And it's a nice little piece (a galliard?) - and it's not too difficult. A lot of the music in these supplements is tough going. In the scholarly notes, it is explained that this isn't really the title. It's not by (or for?) J. Whitfield. The title just is: "Mr Strange Gregery hitts" (Or "Mr Strange Gregery hills"). So (?) this might mean a man called Gregory Strange from a place abbreviated as hitts or hills? Anyway again, the first strain (of three) has only seven 'bars'. Is this likely in English lute music of this period? I just wonder if after bar 5 there could be a bar missing? I do try all the pieces in these supplements and I'm amazed at John H. Robinson's achievement. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Mr Strange Gregory hitts J. Whitfield
Dear Stuart, Sorry, I haven't a clue. All the best, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Stuart Walsh [mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com] Sent: 14 November 2009 08:47 To: Stewart McCoy Cc: Lute Net Subject: Re: [LUTE] Mr Strange Gregory hitts J. Whitfield Thanks, Detailed indeed! Any idea what "Mr Strangs Gregery hitts" means? Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
