Re: N810 is here -- whitout ogg support
Am Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2007 schrieb Steve Greenland: According to John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve A product such as internet tablets needs users (many users, not just oss enthusiasts) in order to get some traction on the market and to evolve. Therefore it makes sense to include mainstream media codex for non-developer costumers. On the other hand the internet tablets are not just commercial products but also a commitment by Nokia to support open source development ( see upstream projects such as hildon etc.). The business unit at Nokia taking care of the internet tablets have realiced that it reduces costs on the long run to participate on the open source development - taking and giving. So, we have a strong commitment from Nokia towards open source and nice internet tablets aiming at average users as well as linux power users and developers. The average user might not care as much about ogg support or not (keeping in mind that the number of ogg content on the web increases) but we linux power users do. And we have been asking for ogg (dsp based) support since the early 770 OS2005 days! I think the comunity would accept a clear no, we will not support ogg because ... by Nokia when they would release desperately needed information about the dsp and the source of the proprietary media player. Then the comunity could put the peaces together. It is always refreshing to take a look at the openmoko project, their mailing lists and wiki. So far there is 'just' a developer version of that open phone available, but the community is extremely creative and enthusiastic. They know where they are at - maybe it is because it is all about openness? Regards Krischan ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: chinook
Fred, I can't speak to your question with respect to the N810 since I don't have one yet. I can however, confirm that RDesktop does work on the N800 and I have used/tested it by VNC'ing into my N800 by means of TigntVNC running on Windows XP SP2 and used the rdesktop app on the N800 to manage, for example, Windows Server 2003 systems. Of course the keyboard in this configuration was connected to the XP system. On the other hand, I have been unable to use this mechanism to RDP into a Windows Vista system and I have not had the time to sort out the problem. Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC *Serving the SmartDigital^TM home, entrepreneurial enterprise, and emerging network service provider markets* * * Fred Chittenden wrote: On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:39:12 +0100 Simon Pickering [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: does anyone have anything built to test? love to try some apps on the N810 ... does n810 rdesktop work to an xp computer with n810 keyboard access and perhaps some way of making one of the button sets work as a mouse right and left click? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Idea: Route Finder Service
Hi, The excellent maemo mapper application can use both Google and OpenStreetMap as well as Microsoft Virtual Earth, possibly others. It also has a possibility to ask a web-service for a route between two locations. I see meamo mapper as a potential source of routes for the Route Finder Service. Regards, Lars Jonathan Greene skrev: Please don't hate for suggesting non-open source ideas ... ;) If we had a native google maps application it would take of quite a few of these needs... The new native app on Symbian is really excellent and integrates really nicely in the N95. I wonder if there are any lurkers here from Google... On 10/19/07, *Henri Bergius* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/19/07, Lars Persson Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My thought was that it would be possible to supply the service with a source and a destination address and have respond with a route and information about the route, for instance the estimated time. The Route Finder Service could then ask Google (or some other web-service) OR the GPS to calculate the route. An interesting optional backend would be using the OpenStreetMap data for route calculation. This would allow downloading the whole OSM data file (currently 900MB) to the device and making routes (and possibly generating maemo mapper map tiles!) without need for internet connection. OSM data files: http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ Some points about OSM-based route calculation: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/notes_from_the_state_of_the_map_conference.html#b3a9ee267eb9b35a1f048755da38 /Lars /Henri -- Henri Bergius Motorcycle Adventures and Free Software http://bergie.iki.fi/ Skype: henribergius Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jaiku: http://bergie.jaiku.com/ -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com -- Lars Persson Fink tfn: 08-722 42 15 Häradsdomarvägen 11 mob: 070-334 35 97 128 38 Skarpnäck ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: chinook
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 12:59:09PM +0300, Quim Gil wrote: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/ Hum, almost empty. Mid November, this is when the first real customers are going to start playing with Chinook. The N810 will come with the extras repository preconfigured, users will only need to activate it manually. Can we get all the useful packages (things like libraries and python 2.5) that are currently available only in the SDK repository copied to the extras repository? Today people have problems installing packages like kagu that live in extras but depend on packages from the SDK repo (python2.5-pygame, IIRC). Marius Gedminas -- Unix for stability; Macs for productivity; Palm for mobility; Windows for Solitaire signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: chinook
perfect - no python means quite a few things just won't work... On 10/19/07, Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 12:59:09PM +0300, Quim Gil wrote: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/ Hum, almost empty. Mid November, this is when the first real customers are going to start playing with Chinook. The N810 will come with the extras repository preconfigured, users will only need to activate it manually. Can we get all the useful packages (things like libraries and python 2.5) that are currently available only in the SDK repository copied to the extras repository? Today people have problems installing packages like kagu that live in extras but depend on packages from the SDK repo (python2.5-pygame, IIRC). Marius Gedminas -- Unix for stability; Macs for productivity; Palm for mobility; Windows for Solitaire -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHGPZwkVdEXeem148RAsnwAJ0cISMzvRafqNhUMtQhyCAzELYA9gCfU6hs JI39PSPPAz1l6cum0uMc7kg= =L33z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How important is it to fix this? I'm working on the assumption that you would only activate Show all packages in an emergency, but would usually leave it off (precisely because it decreases the useability so much). The problem is that while in theory, I could just display all the packages in a particular cagetory, or even only the users/* categories, in practice the category stuff is so screwed up that the only way to find anything is browsing the all lists. This screwup isn't your fault, of course; it's the lack of having a standard policy document to guide developers. Even what there is isn't consistent. Consider the 3-.x Making a package for the Application Manager in maemo 3.x document. It says: The AI only shows packages in the user section. Thus, your Section: field in the control file should be of the form user/SUBSECTION, where SUBSECTION is arbitrary. SUBSECTION should be a nice capitalised, English word like Ringtones Then it shows examples like: # user/accessories Accessories # user/communication Communication So, what goes in the control file? user/accessories or user/Accessories or user/accessories Accessories? Two of the three violate the previous definition, and the examples don't even follow the form. Writing policy (standards, basically) is hard, of course. (I was involved in a lot of the early Debian policy documentation.) But to have a working thirdparty developer community, it's necessary. A complete anarchy does not lead to good results. At lot people miss the fact that the reason Debian packages have such a good reputation (compared to RPMs, particulary RPMs from the Redhat 5-8 era), has very little to do with the technology of .deb and a huge amount to do with the Debian policy effort. Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I fully understand what it's doing but not why it's doing it. Since the act of doing the first update is the equivalent of apt-get update However if you use Adept/Synaptic/dpkg etc the act of the update accumulates all of this information in one act. No, they don't. Every time you start aptitude, it has to read the dpkg and apt database files and load its internal data structures, even if you haven't done an update. Every time you run an install, after it completes, aptitude has to re-read the files/caches and reload its internal data structures. The AM is doing the same, reading the dpkg database and loading its GUI list structures. What makes it painful is that you can only act on one package at time. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support and the repository question
According to Krischan Keitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The optimum may be between the two - meaning we need some kind of a quality management for the community efforts. To approve that just verified and checked apps are in the official and universe repositories. So that Jill Random and ourselves can benefit from rock solid high quality apps. What do you think? Who is going to do the testing and certification? It's a lot of work, and not particularly rewarding. And I can guarantee that sooner or later some developers will feel personally maltreated by any such group. Probably the easiest workable solution is something like the Debian unstable/testing process, whereby packages are uploaded to unstable, and migrate to testing after meeting certain criteria (no new serious bugs, installs with only other testing packages, etc.) But I'd settle for just getting people to use one repo, rather than setting up there own. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thursday 18 October 2007 11:30:34 Marius Gedminas wrote: I sincerely hope Maemo Extras rejects sourceless packages. Marius Gedminas Marius, I would hope that they reject binary packages period, in that like every distro I've worked with you submit a src (rpm deb tgz etc) and the distro builds from that file so that at least some assurance can be made that it's build from the correct environment. Actually, Debian requires a binary upload of at least one architecture. Then the autobuilders build for all the other architectures. About once a year someone proposes source-only uploads. The argument against is that with a binary upload, you have at least some hope that the developer has installed and tested the package. With source-only uploads, there the temptation to make just one little change and upload without building and testing. Maintaining an auto-build system is non-trivial. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 15:14 +0300, Eero Tamminen a écrit : Hi, ext Krischan Keitsch wrote: - mediaplayer not playing the file I think the problem is here, unfortunately :( Developper documentation is a little too scarce about media player, unfortunately. . Unfortunately. Am I wrong when I identify the missing source of the media player as part of the problem? Or has it been released yet? - file manager or browser not launching the media player properly This part works fine, mediaplayer is launched properly Please file bugs. sarcasm Like Bug 176, opened 2005-10-30? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 /sarcasm This is clearly a different issue. That bug is about ogg/theora support for N770 Mediaplayer, not about Mediaplayer in newer releases supporting user installed codecs. Bug about this should be something like this: STEPS TO REPRODUCE: 1. Install code package codec-foo from repository bar 2. Browse to URL foo.bar.org/songs.html and tap to the song.foo file EXPECTED RESULT: - Mediaplayer starts to play nice-song.foo And to do that, we need expected to work but doesn't work ogg support package. And unfortunately, neither mogg or ogg-support packages are in this state for n800 (one lack schema and the other is not registering the correct mimetype) :( -- Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 11:32 +0300, Kalle Valo a écrit : ext Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You know what the killer feature is? Automatic wifi connection. I absolutely hate it when I have to tap the silly little globe, then tap the connect menu item, then wait a few boring seconds for my wifi network to appear, then press ok. Only then I can ssh into my n800 and use apt-get. I could keep my tablet online all the time, of course, but then the battery wouldn't last till the end of the day. It should stay online for days, not hours. Something is wrong with your setup. I would guess that the AP is somehow broken regards to WLAN Power Save Mode. Can you try with some other AP to see if it helps? Also make sure that N800 isn't transmitting anything extra, for example transmitting a packet every second would kill the battery quite quickly. Just curious : is the n800 really supposed to last days when connected via Wifi (with full WLAN Power Save mode enabled), without any disconnect timeout and anything doing network access on the wifi link ? When I check battery applet (which is really great btw), I'm never sure if the in use time is applicable when being idle AND wifi connected. I know I disable network auto-connect and set disconnect timeout to 5min because I had bad experience with first IT2007 version (before full WLAN Power Save mode gconf key were given here). Maybe I should try it again.. -- Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810: any AZERTY keyboard?
Marius Vollmer a écrit : ext Jean-Christian de Rivaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Interresting, I missed this very important point, thanks for the info. I am Swiss French and I will buy the N810 as soon as possible, but I wonder what keyboard will be on the version buyable in Switzerland as the standard Keyboard here is a special one mixing German and French keys. I guess you get the German layout in Switzerland. Thanks for the info, I hope that your guess is right as the standard German keyboard in far more near the standard Swiss one (French standard keyboard is very different). Is there any picture of the N810 German keyboard somewhere on the Web ? Have a good day, -- Jean-Christian de Rivaz ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810: any AZERTY keyboard?
ext Jean-Christian de Rivaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Interresting, I missed this very important point, thanks for the info. I am Swiss French and I will buy the N810 as soon as possible, but I wonder what keyboard will be on the version buyable in Switzerland as the standard Keyboard here is a special one mixing German and French keys. I guess you get the German layout in Switzerland. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 12:11 +0200, Krischan Keitsch a écrit : Am Freitag, 19. Oktober 2007 schrieb Frederic Crozat: Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 11:59 +0300, Eero Tamminen a écrit : So, there shouldn't be any need for any Maemo specific specs, these things are documented in upstream projects. There should still be a tutorial how to do these things though. Tutorial is already available in Maemo 3.x SDK documentation, but we aren't sure it is working as expected, because of mediaplayer blackbox. If there are still some problems after codec has been correctly registered to gstreamer and mime-type database: - gstreamer not recognizing the file type correctly I don't think it is the case, using : gst-launcher filesrc location=test.ogg ! decodebin ! audioconvert ! dsppcmsink does work, so gstreamer is handling the file correctly. We are spinning in circles. We have been there too many times already! So, let's break the circle. Using incantation won't change things. I prefer action. - mediaplayer not playing the file I think the problem is here, unfortunately :( Developper documentation is a little too scarce about media player, unfortunately. . Unfortunately. Am I wrong when I identify the missing source of the media player as part of the problem? Or has it been released yet? It is one part of the problem but even if we had the source, it wouldn't ensure the problem is fixed. And I'm not in a mood to blame Nokia for not releasing Media Player source code. It is part of their policy to not release code from UI based application, I respect that, even if I regret it. So, now, the important thing is either to find if the gconf configuration for Media Player is wrong and can be fixed or if the problem is in Media Player itself (help from some Nokia dudes welcome here, hint hint :) - file manager or browser not launching the media player properly This part works fine, mediaplayer is launched properly Please file bugs. sarcasm Like Bug 176, opened 2005-10-30? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 /sarcasm I think you can drop this kind of reply. And I'm serious. This bring nowhere. As a sidenote, from my distribution persective (I'm GNOME maintainer at Mandriva), Maemo community fragmentation about packages and duplicated work is killing me :( There seems to be a lot of energy around there but often doing the thing or not using infrastructure available thanks to Garage (for instance, some people are only using garage as a way to ship files and don't store their source code in SVN). I have been wondering that as well many times. How come that this community is 'fragmented'? What is causing it? I don't think it is a problem of the community or infrastructure but more of a lack of common practices, which are already in place in various other distributions or project, from new people trying to work on Maemo-based software. -- Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810: any AZERTY keyboard?
The N810 will be available in a French AZERTY version. For the complete list of hardware variants, see Language support at: http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/ tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html Excellent! Thank you, Tomas. -- Laurent, Nantes (FR) - http://blog.lmartin.fr Apple MacBook Pro 15 Nokia Internet Tablet N800 Palm Treo 650 (unlocked GSM) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: chinook
http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/ Hum, almost empty. Mid November, this is when the first real customers are going to start playing with Chinook. The N810 will come with the extras repository preconfigured, users will only need to activate it manually. downloads.maemo.org is going to show OS2008 applications by default to PC users and N810 users are going to see this too. (N800/770 users wil previous OS versions will get their apps as default). All this to say that the sooner your packages hit the extras repository the earlier you will get (perhaps) some testing and (perhaps*perhaps) feedback from i.e. the 3 delmariachis I mean the 3/del bloggers of SF ;) and other people around using already the OS2008. -- Quim Gil - http://maemo.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810: any AZERTY keyboard?
Tomas Junnonen a écrit : ext Laurent MARTIN wrote: The N810 will be available in a French AZERTY version. For the complete list of hardware variants, see Language support at: http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html Interresting, I missed this very important point, thanks for the info. I am Swiss French and I will buy the N810 as soon as possible, but I wonder what keyboard will be on the version buyable in Switzerland as the standard Keyboard here is a special one mixing German and French keys. The must will be to let the customer make the choice at buying time based on pictures of all possible keyboard layout. Best Regards, -- Jean-Christian de Rivaz ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 11:59 +0300, Eero Tamminen a écrit : So, there shouldn't be any need for any Maemo specific specs, these things are documented in upstream projects. There should still be a tutorial how to do these things though. Tutorial is already available in Maemo 3.x SDK documentation, but we aren't sure it is working as expected, because of mediaplayer blackbox. If there are still some problems after codec has been correctly registered to gstreamer and mime-type database: - gstreamer not recognizing the file type correctly I don't think it is the case, using : gst-launcher filesrc location=test.ogg ! decodebin ! audioconvert ! dsppcmsink does work, so gstreamer is handling the file correctly. - mediaplayer not playing the file I think the problem is here, unfortunately :( Developper documentation is a little too scarce about media player, unfortunately.. - file manager or browser not launching the media player properly This part works fine, mediaplayer is launched properly Please file bugs. Before filling bugs against maemo, I think it would be better to only have one ogg support package available for 770 / n800 (and soon n810) to make sure efforts are not duplicated. As a sidenote, from my distribution persective (I'm GNOME maintainer at Mandriva), Maemo community fragmentation about packages and duplicated work is killing me :( There seems to be a lot of energy around there but often doing the thing or not using infrastructure available thanks to Garage (for instance, some people are only using garage as a way to ship files and don't store their source code in SVN). -- Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (touch screen)
ext Alan Williamson wrote: Maybe a silly question, but is the N810 still a touch screen device? Yes. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810: any AZERTY keyboard?
ext Laurent MARTIN wrote: Hi! When the N810 will be available in France, will it be shipped with an AZERTY keyboard or will it stay with its current QWERTY one? OK, I agree that QWERTY is much more powerful for system/development purposes but my contacts are nearly all French and I need easy access to éèçà... characters for sending emails. Any feedback welcome from early (happy N810 testers! TIA. The N810 will be available in a French AZERTY version. For the complete list of hardware variants, see Language support at: http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html Regards, Tomas ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: how to turn off and lock the n800 (answer)
So recapitulating, for those who were asking how to do it: * When the PowerKeyShortAction=softpoweroff the keys are locked * When the PowerKeyLongAction=softpoweroff the keys are NOT locked Wait, wait, wait ;-) As far as I've tested it on my N800, setpoweroff locks the keys and the screen in both situations, no matter on which Action (Short or Long) it has been affected. My N800 is configured with PowerKeyLongAction=softpoweroff since nearly the beginning and the keys are always locked as soon as I press the PowerKey for more than ~1.5 sec. Am I the only one? I can't imaging why things would differ depending on Short/LongAction... -- Laurent, Nantes (FR) - http://blog.lmartin.fr Apple MacBook Pro 15 Nokia Internet Tablet N800 Palm Treo 650 (unlocked GSM) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Hi, ext Krischan Keitsch wrote: Am Mittwoch, 17. Oktober 2007 schrieb Collin R. Mulliner: OGG is only a nerd feature and also has other problems, so Nokia (and other companies) just don't care. Maybe somebody can make a plugin (also this won't utilize the DSP). I don't agree with ogg = nerd feature. Linux as an open and free platform is way beyond nerd-state. Ogg is also about openness and freedom. They share the same philosophy. The OS of our internet tablets is based upon Linux, isn't it? So why is there no support for ogg? By the way: every time a new stylish personal media player from china is shown on engadget you will find more and more players with support for flac and ogg vorbis. Hmm, something is changing? I think whether Nokia is going to support ogg or not is somewhat besides the point. What should be supported is: - Addition of support for new codecs to the system (works, but the repository situation could be better) - All applications immediately able to use the new codecs - User opening a file (in browser or filemanager) encoded with the new codec should automatically open it in the correct player - Documenting how to achieve this This way Nokia doesn't need to be a bottleneck in getting new codecs for the users; community, commercial companies etc could then do it. - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Idea: Route Finder Service
Hi, I (like most others) saw the news of the N810, with built in GPS. Someone suggested that the maemo community could work for more location aware applications, that got me thinking about the idea of the Route Finder Service. Unfortunately I do not have the time or competence needed in order to actually implement this, so I am posting it in the hope that someone else may do it. I believe it would be nice to have a service that other applications can ask for routes, not IP-routes but routes between locations. This service could then utilize other route providing services (GPS, google, MS virtual earth, local subway webpage etc) to find the actual routes. I think it would be useful if the service provided some plugin functionality, preferably through some scripting language, so it would be easy to extend it towards different route providing services. For instance I believe most Subways have a web-page that you can ask to get information about trips, but they are all different, so the service would have to be adapted. Some examples: 1. If I select an address in my address book I could ask the application to give me directions on how to go there. 2. My calendar could check the location of my next appointment and get my current location from the GPS to send off an alarm a couple of minutes before I need to leave, based on the Route Finder service estimation of the travel time. Best Regards, Lars Persson Fink ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: External Monitor with N800
Kalle, Thank you! I think I'll give it a shot. If it works, great and I'll post the results. If it doesn't, lesson learned and I'll still post the results. Nick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kalle Valo Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 11:54 PM To: ext Dr. Nicholas Shaw Cc: maemo-users@maemo.org Subject: Re: External Monitor with N800 ext Dr. Nicholas Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My wife would like to display presentations, that reside on the N800, directly to a monitor without using another computer (such as what I do with VNC). In other words, presentation runs on the N800 and output displays on an external monitor. I believe we had a similar discussion several months back. Is this possible? The answer was, I believe, no but I want to verify. You are correct, N810 does not have video output. But there was a similar question posted to lwn.net and someone suggested to use USB2VGA for that: http://lwn.net/Articles/254916/ http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/AddVGAAdapter It might or might not work. But this would be a hacker project, not for normal users. -- Kalle Valo ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 11:32:12AM +0300, Kalle Valo wrote: ext Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I could keep my tablet online all the time, of course, but then the battery wouldn't last till the end of the day. It should stay online for days, not hours. I didn't mean to imply that it drains the battery in a few hours while idle. It drains the battery in a few hours of e-book reading, with the screen on. Keeping the tablet offline increases my e-book reading time a bit. Also, I have load-applet and statusbarclock installed, and these probably don't help with power savings. Marius Gedminas -- If it wasn't for C, we'd be using BASI, PASAL and OBOL signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Idea: Route Finder Service
Please don't hate for suggesting non-open source ideas ... ;) If we had a native google maps application it would take of quite a few of these needs... The new native app on Symbian is really excellent and integrates really nicely in the N95. I wonder if there are any lurkers here from Google... On 10/19/07, Henri Bergius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/19/07, Lars Persson Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My thought was that it would be possible to supply the service with a source and a destination address and have respond with a route and information about the route, for instance the estimated time. The Route Finder Service could then ask Google (or some other web-service) OR the GPS to calculate the route. An interesting optional backend would be using the OpenStreetMap data for route calculation. This would allow downloading the whole OSM data file (currently 900MB) to the device and making routes (and possibly generating maemo mapper map tiles!) without need for internet connection. OSM data files: http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ Some points about OSM-based route calculation: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/notes_from_the_state_of_the_map_conference.html#b3a9ee267eb9b35a1f048755da38 /Lars /Henri -- Henri Bergius Motorcycle Adventures and Free Software http://bergie.iki.fi/ Skype: henribergius Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jaiku: http://bergie.jaiku.com/ -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederic Crozat schrieb: And to do that, we need expected to work but doesn't work ogg support package. And unfortunately, neither mogg or ogg-support packages are in this state for n800 (one lack schema and the other is not registering the correct mimetype) :( The mogg source is up in the download section and in svn and it's easy to repackage! I am more than happy about solutions/patches! I don't have an N800 to try it out! Tilman PS. Rant is a good start, but action and contributions cannot be substituted. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHGKwg9ZPu6Yae8lkRAlJlAJ4jK/AEZ3xSTg2UjS6ZR65E1MOYRQCggdse g2MUU5SbAfQdZuPsPgg72uw= =3uUJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Hi, ext Krischan Keitsch wrote: - mediaplayer not playing the file I think the problem is here, unfortunately :( Developper documentation is a little too scarce about media player, unfortunately. . Unfortunately. Am I wrong when I identify the missing source of the media player as part of the problem? Or has it been released yet? - file manager or browser not launching the media player properly This part works fine, mediaplayer is launched properly Please file bugs. sarcasm Like Bug 176, opened 2005-10-30? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 /sarcasm This is clearly a different issue. That bug is about ogg/theora support for N770 Mediaplayer, not about Mediaplayer in newer releases supporting user installed codecs. Bug about this should be something like this: STEPS TO REPRODUCE: 1. Install code package codec-foo from repository bar 2. Browse to URL foo.bar.org/songs.html and tap to the song.foo file EXPECTED RESULT: - Mediaplayer starts to play nice-song.foo - Eero ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (In other words, it is conservative when removing things. Not like aptitude that goes and deletes half your OS if you are not careful.. :) Aww, cmon, this is mostly fixed in aptitude these days. Besides, it made life exciting! Yep, I should try aptitude again, but first impressions are hard to overcome... (I also don't the prolog impersonation that aptitude puts on sometimes: accept this solution or look at another equally obscure one?) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here (ogg support)
Am Freitag, 19. Oktober 2007 schrieb Frederic Crozat: Le vendredi 19 octobre 2007 à 11:59 +0300, Eero Tamminen a écrit : So, there shouldn't be any need for any Maemo specific specs, these things are documented in upstream projects. There should still be a tutorial how to do these things though. Tutorial is already available in Maemo 3.x SDK documentation, but we aren't sure it is working as expected, because of mediaplayer blackbox. If there are still some problems after codec has been correctly registered to gstreamer and mime-type database: - gstreamer not recognizing the file type correctly I don't think it is the case, using : gst-launcher filesrc location=test.ogg ! decodebin ! audioconvert ! dsppcmsink does work, so gstreamer is handling the file correctly. We are spinning in circles. We have been there too many times already! - mediaplayer not playing the file I think the problem is here, unfortunately :( Developper documentation is a little too scarce about media player, unfortunately. . Unfortunately. Am I wrong when I identify the missing source of the media player as part of the problem? Or has it been released yet? - file manager or browser not launching the media player properly This part works fine, mediaplayer is launched properly Please file bugs. sarcasm Like Bug 176, opened 2005-10-30? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 /sarcasm Before filling bugs against maemo, I think it would be better to only have one ogg support package available for 770 / n800 (and soon n810) to make sure efforts are not duplicated. Yepp! Convergence instead of parallel efforts! Time to puzzle should be over in order to mature this platform. As a sidenote, from my distribution persective (I'm GNOME maintainer at Mandriva), Maemo community fragmentation about packages and duplicated work is killing me :( There seems to be a lot of energy around there but often doing the thing or not using infrastructure available thanks to Garage (for instance, some people are only using garage as a way to ship files and don't store their source code in SVN). I have been wondering that as well many times. How come that this community is 'fragmented'? What is causing it? Regards Krischan ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On Thursday 18 October 2007 20:01:36 Steve Greenland wrote: According to James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: a. open AM b. get asked if I want to update package lists. c. click to browse installable packages. d. wait for update packages (why it just did an update.) Actually, the update here is updating the soon-to-be-displayed list of uninstalled packages; it's not re-doing the download of the Packages files. Steve I fully understand what it's doing but not why it's doing it. Since the act of doing the first update is the equivalent of apt-get update However if you use Adept/Synaptic/dpkg etc the act of the update accumulates all of this information in one act. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Am Mittwoch, 17. Oktober 2007 schrieb Collin R. Mulliner: OGG is only a nerd feature and also has other problems, so Nokia (and other companies) just don't care. Maybe somebody can make a plugin (also this won't utilize the DSP). I don't agree with ogg = nerd feature. Linux as an open and free platform is way beyond nerd-state. Ogg is also about openness and freedom. They share the same philosophy. The OS of our internet tablets is based upon Linux, isn't it? So why is there no support for ogg? By the way: every time a new stylish personal media player from china is shown on engadget you will find more and more players with support for flac and ogg vorbis. Hmm, something is changing? Regards Krischan ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Idea: Route Finder Service
On 10/19/07, Lars Persson Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My thought was that it would be possible to supply the service with a source and a destination address and have respond with a route and information about the route, for instance the estimated time. The Route Finder Service could then ask Google (or some other web-service) OR the GPS to calculate the route. An interesting optional backend would be using the OpenStreetMap data for route calculation. This would allow downloading the whole OSM data file (currently 900MB) to the device and making routes (and possibly generating maemo mapper map tiles!) without need for internet connection. OSM data files: http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ Some points about OSM-based route calculation: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/notes_from_the_state_of_the_map_conference.html#b3a9ee267eb9b35a1f048755da38 /Lars /Henri -- Henri Bergius Motorcycle Adventures and Free Software http://bergie.iki.fi/ Skype: henribergius Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jaiku: http://bergie.jaiku.com/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ext Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My personal pet peeve with the app manager is all those confirmation dialogs. Yeah, and there will be more in the future... There should be at least one before starting the operation, Please Ghod no. I confirmed the operation when I selected install or remove. In the rare occasion when I didn't mean to, the worst consequence is that I have to remove or re-install some app. The obvious exception, of course, is attempting to remove some required package, or removing something that's going to break dependencies. and we can't get rid of the legal Notice dialog for non-certified software. How about letting me mark repos as okay by meor is this just a case where I need to be a poweruser and use apt-get? When using the AM to install system software updates, there will be lots more: please take a backup, all applications will be closed, continue?, device will reboot, continue?, don't touch me while I do scary things to the kernel, maybe even more. We should try to combine these messages. This needs some thought -- in particular, what defines a system software update? Upgrading the whole system to ITS2008, sure. A kernel upgrade, probably. But what if the upgrade is just one required package? Remember, by doing per-package upgrades, you can get this kind of choice. Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Cannot execute ARM binary in scratchbox
TO: Maemo Users FROM: Sharath Mudalamane Subject: [Cannot execute ARM binary in scratchbox] Hello, I am trying to execute an arm binary on 386 using qemu-arm. I am unable to execute the binary generated. Can anyone who is familiar with this, help me? Please, see the logs to know what I have done. Please, correct me if have missed anything. More information about packages I have installed: Packages used for scratchbox - scratchbox-core-1.0.7-i386.tar.gz scratchbox-libs-1.0.7-i386.tar.gz scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm-1.0.5-i386.tar.gz scratchbox-devkit-cputransp-1.0.3-i386.tar.gz Installed scratchbox as mentioned in http://scratchbox.org/documentation/docbook/installdoc.html To setup TARGET (N800), I took guidance from http://scratchbox.org/documentation/docbook/tutorial.html Thanks and regards, Sharath Mudalamane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scratchbox log: [sbox-dummy: ~] sb-conf setup N800 -c cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm -t qemu-arm sb-conf: No such CPU-transparency method: 'qemu-arm'. Perhaps you forgot to select the devkit which includes it. [sbox-dummy: ~] sb-conf setup N800 -c cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm -d cputransp -t qemu-arm [sbox-dummy: ~] sb-conf select N800 Shell restarting... [sbox-N800: ~] [sbox-N800: ~] [sbox-N800: ~] sb-conf install -c [sbox-N800: ~] [sbox-N800: ~] [sbox-N800: ~] cd programs/ [sbox-N800: ~/programs] gcc -Wall hello.c -o arm-hello [sbox-N800: ~/programs] file arm-hello arm-hello: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped [sbox-N800: ~/programs] [sbox-N800: ~/programs] [sbox-N800: ~/programs] ./arm-hello /lib/ld-linux.so.3: No such file or directory [sbox-N800: ~/programs] ls arm-hello hello.c hello.c~ [sbox-N800: ~/programs] [sbox-N800: ~/programs] /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/bin/arm-linux-gcc -Wall hello.c -o arm-hello1 [sbox-N800: ~/programs] [sbox-N800: ~/programs] file arm-hello1 arm-hello1: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped [sbox-N800: ~/programs] ./arm-hello1 /lib/ld-linux.so.3: No such file or directory [sbox-N800: ~/programs] DISCLAIMER: This message (including attachment if any) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received this message by mistake please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message from your system. Any unauthorized use or dissemination of this message in whole or in part is strictly prohibited. E-mail may contain viruses. Before opening attachments please check them for viruses and defects. While MindTree Consulting Limited (MindTree) has put in place checks to minimize the risks, MindTree will not be responsible for any viruses or defects or any forwarded attachments emanating either from within MindTree or outside. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and MindTree shall not be liable for any improper, untimely or incomplete transmission. MindTree reserves the right to monitor and review the content of all messages sent to or from MindTree e-mail address. Messages sent to or from this e-mail address may be stored on the MindTree e-mail system or else where. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My personal pet peeve with the app manager is all those confirmation dialogs. Yeah, and there will be more in the future... There should be at least one before starting the operation, and we can't get rid of the legal Notice dialog for non-certified software. When using the AM to install system software updates, there will be lots more: please take a backup, all applications will be closed, continue?, device will reboot, continue?, don't touch me while I do scary things to the kernel, maybe even more. We should try to combine these messages. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: chinook
Only thing I saw in the repository was Open SSH which I installed. FBReader installed fine too using the one-click file with the new release. Unable to install ScummVM. Not sure why, that's the error that I got upon loading the .deb that was linked earlier. Term was pre-installed and procinfo worked - we did that right away! On 10/19/07, Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/ Hum, almost empty. Mid November, this is when the first real customers are going to start playing with Chinook. The N810 will come with the extras repository preconfigured, users will only need to activate it manually. downloads.maemo.org is going to show OS2008 applications by default to PC users and N810 users are going to see this too. (N800/770 users wil previous OS versions will get their apps as default). All this to say that the sooner your packages hit the extras repository the earlier you will get (perhaps) some testing and (perhaps*perhaps) feedback from i.e. the 3 delmariachis I mean the 3/del bloggers of SF ;) and other people around using already the OS2008. -- Quim Gil - http://maemo.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
