Re: [Mailman-Users] All my lists quit working!
On Jan 13, 2015, at 4:21 PM, Jan Steinman j...@ecoreality.org wrote: Thanks for your suggestions and help! From: Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com Log entries please. It never gets as far as Mailman. No log info occurs in mailman/error or mailman/qrunner. This is what shows up in mail.log: Jan 13 18:04:16 dns postfix/smtpd[49973]: connect from unknown[10.1.1.2] Jan 13 18:04:16 dns postfix/smtpd[49973]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[10.1.1.2]: 550 5.1.1 farm...@ecoreality.org: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table; from=j...@ecoreality.org to=farm...@ecoreality.org proto=ESMTP helo=[10.1.1.2] Jan 13 18:04:16 dns postfix/smtpd[49973]: disconnect from unknown[10.1.1.2] /etc/postfix/main.cf contains the following lines: virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual,hash:/var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman,hash:/etc/postfix/virtual_users alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,hash:/var/mailman/data/aliases Now we’re getting somewhere. Postfix thinks farm...@ecoreality.org is a virtual address and is trying to look it up in the virtual alias table but your Mailman aliases (per your original post) are in alias_maps which is only used for local (not virtual) addresses. I’ve never used virtual addresses in Postfix but I’d suggest looking at http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html for information on using Mailman with Postfix virtual domains. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] All my lists quit working!
On Jan 8, 2015, at 7:49 AM, Jan Steinman j...@bytesmiths.com wrote: First, the bad news: Mac OS X 10.6.8. Yea, I've read Mark's dire warning. Please don't shoot me. I'm hoping this is a generic sort of problem. OS X Server? or OS X (client)? When I send a message to ANY of the dozen or so lists I host, my MTA immediately says it doesn't know the addressee. Log entries please. /etc/postfix/main.cf contains the following lines: virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual,hash:/var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman,hash:/etc/postfix/virtual_users alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,hash:/var/mailman/data/aliases Please provide your postconf -n . That will show how postfix is actually configured, not how you think it is configured by providing just a few lines out of main.cf. The file /var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman is empty. The file /var/mailman/data/aliases has all my lists in it. The corresponding .db files for those two have the same timestamp as their corresponding text files. Here is an example of what is in the aliases file: # STANZA START: beaders # CREATED: Wed Jan 7 13:06:39 2015 beaders: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post beaders beaders-admin: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman admin beaders beaders-bounces: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman bounces beaders beaders-confirm: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman confirm beaders beaders-join:|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman join beaders beaders-leave: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman leave beaders beaders-owner: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman owner beaders beaders-request: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman request beaders beaders-subscribe: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe beaders beaders-unsubscribe: |/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe beaders # STANZA END: beaders I run dumpdb aliases.db and get: [- start marshal file -] Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/share/mailman/bin/dumpdb, line 156, in module msg = main() File /usr/share/mailman/bin/dumpdb, line 136, in main obj = load(fp) ValueError: bad marshal data Mailman’s dumpdb is for Python databases. aliases.db is not a Python database. Does this mean that dumpdb is bad, or does it mean that aliases.db is bad, or neither It means dumpdb is the wrong tool for dumping aliases.db. Any help (despite my using an unsupported version) appreciated! Show log entries and postconf -n as requested above as it looks correct at first glance. Also, check your master.cf to see if there are any overrides (-o) on your smtpd entry. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Re-formatting messages
On Thu, 17 Jul 2014, Peter Brooks wrote: I'm using a mailing list for a very specific application. All the e-mails arrive in a standard - but unfriendly format. How do I reformat them? If I could filter the messages through a unix script, that'd do the job perfectly. Is there a way to get mailman to pass e-mails through a script before sending them? I'd say you're thinking about this the wrong way. I'd make sure they're formatted correctly before Mailman ever sees them. Instead of having your MTA deliver them to Mailman, change the alias to deliver them to a script to reformat them, then have the script send them to Mailman. To complicate matters a little bit, I'm using a hosted machine, so I have to do everything through CPANEL. As Mark replied as I was writing, this is a problem. If this isn't possible, my next option would be to send the messages to a machine I do have control over - so, if there's a way to do this that needs root access then I'd like to know that too, because that's plan C. See above - I think plan C is the way to go. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Can Someone Explain This?
On May 9, 2014, at 2:08 AM, sherwin sherwi...@att.net wrote: I am recently having trouble posting messages to Ibiblio from my ATT mail account. There have been issues lately with AOL and Yahoo changing their headers, but I was not affected by this. My email postings to Ibiblio are being rejected with the following error: … mid...@lists.ibiblio.org: Command died with status 2: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post midfex. Command output: Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group mailman, but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group nobody. Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group mailman, or re-run configure, providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'. How can this be fixed? I assume you are just a user of a list at ibiblio.org? If so, you can’t fix it. Ibiblio.org has Mailman installed incorrectly. They need to install it correctly. This problem affects all lists managed by this Mailman installation so I assume you have also not been receiving any postings from this list. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.18 internal documentation suggestions
On Apr 30, 2014, at 9:57 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: May as well rewrite the doc ... here goes: from_alignment: Try to ensure that From is not misaligned with the author's domain, to conform with protocols like DMARC. [FIXME: I don't see how to avoid the double negative. Help?!] Seems to me saying “Try to ensure that 'From:' is “aligned” with …” does it. I’d prefer to put the header field name in quotes or otherwise distinguish it. Otherwise, it can be difficult to parse - is “from” the header or a preposition. But, I don’t like “author’s domain”. Who or what is the author? Why not just say “the Mailman server’s domain” since that’s what it’s going to be aligned with. 'no': Do nothing special. This is appropriate for anonymous lists. It is appropriate for dedicated announcement lists, unless the From address is not within the Mailman host's domain. [FIXME: Maybe None is a better value here. Of course that's not backward compatible, but with the name change it would be possible to check the old from_is_list.] None is better. No would only be appropriate if ‘yes’ was the other option. But backwards compatibility is important too (even if it’s not to most large computer companies :-( ). -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails from yahoo members, are getting rejected by yahoo, Service Unavailable.
On Apr 14, 2014, at 5:51 PM, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote: So what is being said here? When a yahoo poster sends an email to your list, that email is reflected to the rest of the other subscribers. Those other subscribers may or may not check yahoo's dmarc policy before accepting your list email. If they do reject your list message, then that equals 1 mailman bounce. After a few posts from yahoo members, the bounce scores increase and the other subscribers are unsubscribed. I think most of us are clear on that point. Where I’m confused (and I’m thinking that’s what Lindsay is asking about) is where you said Yes! (maybe start reading threads from the bottom up?) :-) in response to On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Joe Sniderman joseph.snider...@thoroquel.org wrote: On 04/13/2014 06:03 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Joseph Brennan bren...@columbia.edu wrote: Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote: DMARC works off of SPF as well. Not really. DMARC checks alignment of *both* DKIM and SPF, if either is broken DMARC fails. Nooo...If either one passes, DMARC passes. SPF does not check the From: header line, and that's where the troubles begin with DMARC. SPF checks sending IPs (of which your IPs won't match Yahoo's, thus breaking DMARC) Either an SPF failure or a DKIM failure will cause a DMARC rejection if p=reject. Even if that were the case, which it is not, SPF should pass - since typically the list is the envelope sender. To what are you saying “Yes”? With what are you agreeing? — Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on OS X, launchctl
On Mar 2, 2014, at 6:07 PM, Jim Wright j...@wrightthisway.com wrote: I've been lurking on this list for a few years now, and have been running Mailman 2.1.14 for a few years here. I have no idea what install tips I may have followed originally, but Mailman is generally working fine. The issue I'm running into is that Mailman needs to be restarted periodically, usually where I notice this is that at the beginning of the month Mailman doesn't send out it's usual monthly reminder. I only have 1 very low volume mailing list, so this is usually the first clue that it has stopped. I have several LaunchDaemons set up to perform various functions at various intervals, but like I said I'm not sure what steps I originally followed when setting this up, if I created these from scratch, etc. So, basically, I'm looking for help from any other OS X users that might have a working set of launchctl files that I could leverage, I'm currently running OS X 10.7.5 (non-Server) on the mail server. I think the real question you have to answer is why it needs to be restarted. I run Mailman on OS X (client) but am on the current Mavericks (10.9.2). My launchctl plist merely starts Mailman at boot (mailmanctl -s start) and exits (RunAtLoad true). It does not monitor and restart it and I do not have a problem with Mailman dying on me (but if it does, I have an hourly cron job that checks to make sure what should be running (more than just Mailman) is running. Rarely does it catch something). Unfortunately, as I understand it (I am not a launchd expert), launchd expects any program it starts to keep running. Programs that are started with a command that starts the daemon and then exit (such as Mailman’s mailmanctl command) do not fit the launchd model. In a normal launchd environment where it’s told to keep a program running with KeepAlive, it would see mailmanctl exit and restart it - obviously not what we want with Mailman. Since the command it is running is mailmanctl, it has not idea of what other processes start as a result so has no way to monitor them. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Newsletter Blast sending duplicates to subscribers
On Jan 8, 2014, at 6:03 AM, Doug Hutson d...@mrdirectint.com wrote: We've been using mailman for quite a long time now, and suddenly the last newsletter we sent out sent duplicates to random users as far as I can tell. All the people that have e-mailed us about this issue were specifically yahoo addresses. Reports of 4-50 duplicates per user were sent to them. We only have one list of users we send users to, and this is the first time this has ever happened. So, my question specifically... does anybody have advice in what I should look for as to why this happened? I would start with looking at the logs of your mail server. You want to figure out where the duplication is occurring. Was it sent to Yahoo more than once? Or was it accepted by Yahoo just once? If the latter, the duplication is happening at Yahoo and it is not your problem to solve. You didn’t say what mail server is being used but SMTP is designed not to lose mail. Therefore, a duplicate is preferable to losing mail. If the receiving SMTP server receives the mail but does not tell the sending server it has it (sending server sends “end of message” but receiving server does not acknowledge), then the sending server assumes something went wrong and tries to send it again. My guess would be it’s either happening between your outgoing SMTP server and Yahoo (or the next server if you’re relaying through another server) or internally in Yahoo. It’s very unlikely, particularly since you say it only happens with Yahoo, that it’s a problem in Mailman. Rather, it’s happening after Mailman is done with the message so is not a Mailman problem per se. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] attachment size?
On Tue, 10 Dec 2013, Glen Page wrote: Where do I control how large of an attachment a particular list will accept? I have a list member that needs to send an 8.6MB file to the list. I have message length set to 0 (max_message_size) but the message keeps getting rejected with a 552 5.3.4 Error: message file too big message. It's probably running afoul of a size limit set on the MTA and never making it to Mailman. But since you didn't say what MTA you're using, it's difficult to provide additional help in that area. If that's what it is, you'll probably get a faster response in an appropriate forum for that MTA. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mountain Lion server trouble
On Mar 29, 2013, at 4:32 PM, Allan Herman n...@rogers.com wrote: OK, here are steps taken for a (mostly) successful installation on Mountain Lion server, including migration from the apple-supplied mailman previously running under Lion. Primarily, subject to the following comments, I followed the steps in the Snow Leopard instructions at this page: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg56963.html As the author of the original, thank you for the update. Note that what I wrote was for OS X client, not Server. But I am stuck for now at Lion and after one attempt on a test system, not sure I want to try to move my server beyond Lion. Apple has changed way too much in Mountain Lion - compatibility with previous OS versions is just not in Apple's goals (and it's the mail server piece that has stopped me - never even got to Mailman). -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] again postfix+aliases+virtual_domains
On Dec 16, 2012, at 1:17 PM, ДП aspamkil...@yandex.ru wrote: First of all, when trying to communicate Postfix configurations, unedited, full output from `postconf -n` with possible munging of domain names (only if done consistently) is almost always preferable. Also main.cf in attachment. main.cf Giving us main.cf is NOT the same as postconf -n output. Main.cf shows us how you THINK the system is configured. Postconf -n shows us how the system is ACTUALLY configured. Requiring postconf -n rather than main.cf is one of the rules of the Postfix support mailing list for reasons (as stated above) that are just as valid here. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman needs 20 seconds to complete per email
Missing the most important thing which is a Postfix log. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ On Dec 3, 2012, at 3:27 AM, Karsten Becker karsten.bec...@ecologic.eu wrote: On 12/03/2012 07:16 AM, Stefan Foerster wrote: 1. postconf -n output, as well as master.cf excerpts of the smtpd services you access 2. postfix logs from a posting that get's delayed, if possible, delivery from outside to mailman and from mailman back to postfix 3. the corresponding mailman log Here we go, find the files attached. Just inform me if something is missing... If Ralf is wondering that he thinks he knows that kind of setup - the whole mailing stuff got set up using his book... :-) Regards Karsten master.cfpost.txtpostconf.confsmtp.txt-- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lstone19%40stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman needs 20 seconds to complete per email
A few comments below on selected lines: On Mon, 3 Dec 2012, Karsten Becker wrote: Dec 3 09:52:39 mail01 postfix/pipe[15199]: B0E971720080: to=karsten-t...@lists.foo.de, relay=mailman, delay=0.21, delays=0.05/0.01/0/0.16, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via mailman service) As I now see in your master.cf, you're using the postfix-to-mailman.py script. This is a third-party product and is not supported by the Mailman developers. I know nothing about postfix-to-mailman so I have no idea if that's the source of the delay. Dec 3 09:53:02 mail01 postfix/smtpd[15221]: 0D45F172007D: client=localhost[127.0.0.1] OK, now it's 23 seconds later but we're missing the connect from log line from Postfix. At this point, Postfix already has the message as evidenced by the queue-ID (0D45F172007D) in the message. So without seeing when the connect occurred, we don't know if the delay is in Mailman or Postfix. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman needs 20 seconds to complete per email
On Dec 3, 2012, at 9:22 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: Dec 3 09:53:02 mail01 postfix/smtpd[15221]: 0D45F172007D: client=localhost[127.0.0.1] OK, now it's 23 seconds later but we're missing the connect from log line from Postfix. At this point, Postfix already has the message as evidenced by the queue-ID (0D45F172007D) in the message. So without seeing when the connect occurred, we don't know if the delay is in Mailman or Postfix. Exactly, but I clain the delay is in the SMTP interaction between OutgoingRunner and Postfix. Karsten did send the additional log line showing the connect did not happen until 9:53:02. Maybe something is happening that is delaying Postfix in creating the SMTPD process. Maybe a slow DNS response (resolving 127.0.0.1 to localhost)? I'm not sure when Postfix would log the connect message in that case but since it logs the resolved hostname, I'm thinking at the end. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman needs 20 seconds to complete per email
On Dec 2, 2012, at 2:27 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: Likewise, within the same 2 seconds, OutgoingRunner will pick up the message and begin processing it. When done, it will write the post and smtp log entries. In the smtp log entries, the 21+ second processing time is the time in OutgoingRunner. All OutgoingRunner is doing is SMTP to the outgoing MTA (host and port set by SMTPHOST, default = 'localhost', and SMTPPORT default = 0, SMTPPORT = 0 implies port 25). It is that SMTP transaction that is taking 21 seconds because of some configuration or other issue in the outgoing MTA. A stab in the dark but it sounds like you might have postscreen (part of Postfix) or some other service on port 25 that is causing the delay. In this day and age, port 25 really should be used only for mail coming from outside destined for your server. I'd suggest creating another incoming Postfix port (e.g. 20025) that is exclusively for mail from Mailman being injected to Postfix. Configure it appropriately so that only lcoalhost or whatever other local hosts need it can use it. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] timeout settings?
I'd like to suggest that no one provide Mr. Cook any assistance. Since I helped answer a question of his some months ago, mycoachonline.com has been a persistent spam source on my server. The most recent piece of spam from his company was received 11 hours ago. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com On Sep 26, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Wayne Cook wc...@mycoachonline.com wrote: I seem to be getting a lot of connection timeout messages and I'd like to change my time out settingsand get some advice from the list on reducing the number of time outs. I'm running Mailman 2.1.14 on OSX 10.6 client (NOT server) with MailServe for snow leopard It seems like when I did this installation, there were tuning instructions I found that had information about changing time out settings, the number of threads and such, but I can't seem to find that information now and I use terminal so little that I don't want to play around and screw something up that's working fairly good. thanks W Wayne Cook wc...@mycoachonline.com http://www.mycoachonline.com/ --- I've flown faster than the speed of sound, stared down a shark while standing on the ocean floor and launched men into space. Care to join me tomorrow? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lstone19%40stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL redacts user addresses even with VERP and full personalization enabled
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012, Brad Knowles wrote: In fact, when you sign up for the AOL Feedback Loop (as I did years ago for the lists hosted at python.org), the instructions explicitly state that you may not use any information they give you to determine who the affected user is -- they're simply telling you that you have a problem that you need to fix on your end to keep spam from being generated in the first place, and it is not relevant which AOL user is complaining. And the problem that I'm trying to fix is that their user has violated MY TOS regarding reporting list mail (that they subscribed to) as spam. That AOL sent their Feedback Loop message to me is therefore part of the violation of my terms. So whose terms ends up governing when they're in conflict? Personally, I'm not going to worry about it. I'll use them as best I can to unsubscribe and server ban the offending subscriber. As I said, that AOL user has violated my terms and I am entitled to deal with that violation. If AOL were to ever call me on it, I'll worry about that then. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] more questions about Yahoo feedback loop and abuse complaints
On Jun 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: On 6/15/12 8:51 PM, David wrote: On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt ralf.hildebra...@charite.de wrote: * Thomas Hochstein mailman-us...@ml.th-h.de: Ralf Hildebrandt schrieb: Yahoo! users are truly special. AOL users are, too. (They also have a feedback loop.) Yeah, and it's even worse, since it tries to weed out all info one needs to identify the user :( Is there any method to identify the user from the AOL feedback loop? If not, how does AOL expect us to unsubscribe the user who complained? They DON'T expect you to unsubscribe the user who marked you as spam, but to stop the spammer who is sending out the email marked as spam. The whole system is based on the premise that the recipient (their customer) is totally innocent, and the send (your list) is the guilty party. They are telling you, as an ISP, to stop your customer (your list) from sending SPAM. They are totally missing that their customer at a previous point ASKED for the email (at least I am presuming you haven't bypassed the safeguards built into Mailman to avoid abuse) and now has used the Mark as spam button as a attempt to unsubscribe because they can't (or won't) figure out the proper way to do it. Sad to say, that does appear to be how AOL thinks. Their customers never make mistakes, etc. If a customer clicked Mark as spam, then it's spam and that point is not open to discussion. It's been a long while since I've received an AOL spam report but despite their redacting, I can usually figure out who did it my some sleuthing through the mail server logs. My policy for AOL users is straightforward and ruthless: do it once and you get banned from my lists and my server. I banned my cousin once (and in typical AOLuser fashion, denied clicking the button - and he used to work for AOL!). -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] more questions about Yahoo feedback loop and abuse complaints
On Jun 16, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Ralf Hildebrandt ralf.hildebra...@charite.de wrote: * David d...@fiteyes.com: Is there any method to identify the user from the AOL feedback loop? Of course, just use verp :) -- The last I knew, AOL redacts the user name in their notice. In other words, a something sent to this list marked as spam will show it as sent from mailman-users+redac...@python.org. I trace then from message ID and matching to my Postfix logs. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] more questions about Yahoo feedback loop and abuse complaints
On Jun 16, 2012, at 5:20 PM, David d...@fiteyes.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com wrote: On Jun 16, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Ralf Hildebrandt ralf.hildebra...@charite.de wrote: * David d...@fiteyes.com: Is there any method to identify the user from the AOL feedback loop? I trace from message ID and matching to my Postfix logs. Thanks, but I'm not sure how to do that. The message ID we get from AOL is something like snt0-p5-eas297e02bc8f051ef1aab0bfd3...@phx.gbl and it is related to the sender. This same ID will show up in the postfix log for every outgoing copy of that message from that sender. Could you explain how you trace from the message ID to your Postfix logs? (Maybe you use a different message ID?)- It's been a while so I must be misremembering. If not the message ID, then the postfix queue ID which IIRC is in the Received headers sent back by AOL. But looking back at my saved AOL spam reports, it's been over three years since a list subscriber did that to me so things may well have changed. Larry Stone la...@stonejongleux.com (and others) Sent from my iPad -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] looking for correct doc for configure
On Jun 3, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Larry Stone wrote: On Jun 3, 2012, at 1:09 AM, H wrote: All, Pretty new to Mailman, trying to install it and looking for the correct documentation to go with mailman-3.0.0b1 MHO, if you're new to Mailman, you should not be looking at 3.0 yet. 3.0.0b1 is the first beta release of the largely re-architected Mailman 3. Stick to the latest Mailman 2.1 production release (2.1.14) which is well documented, debugged, and supported. As you (the OP) found, 2.1.x installs and works very well. I think one thing worth adding is that in the Unix world, most of the public software such as Mailman tends to follow traditional versioning. Unlike the PC world where it seems somewhat common to call something a beta yet tell the users that it's ready to go (and then stay in perpetual beta), a beta here means that it's still being debugged. Until a release candidate version is put up, I would not use Mailman 3 unless I want to be a tester. For the 2.1.x tree, I believe recent release candidates have gone to the production version without change other than finishing the documentation. In short, don't be fooled by the PC world and perpetual betas. Mark will let us know when Mailman 3 is ready to use in a production environment. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] looking for correct doc for configure
On Jun 3, 2012, at 1:09 AM, H wrote: All, Pretty new to Mailman, trying to install it and looking for the correct documentation to go with mailman-3.0.0b1 MHO, if you're new to Mailman, you should not be looking at 3.0 yet. 3.0.0b1 is the first beta release of the largely re-architected Mailman 3. Stick to the latest Mailman 2.1 production release (2.1.14) which is well documented, debugged, and supported. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Sevier Issue with mails, are these compromised?
On Mon, 14 May 2012, Amit Bhatt wrote: Today, I've got an E-Mail from them saying that as per the mail policy, our members can send 500 mails per hour but we are exceeding the number of mails a day! While the fact is we have around 360 members and we send hardly 50 to 60 messages in entire day of 24:00. so, I am unable to understand what's wrong with us. Are some of our mails account got hacked and compromised? I suspect you don't understand how emails are counted. Each list message to each recipinet probably counts as one email. If I'm understanding you correctly, your are sending 50 to 60 messages per day to 360 users. 50 times 360 is 18,000 outgoing messages per day. Hostgator team has send me the number of messages and Email addresses sent from: -- sayeverything-boun...@sayeverything.org: 11,655 That fits with my assumption above. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] confirmation string is not working
Then check mm_cfg.py and make sure PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE hasn't been set to something ridiculously short. While Mark stated that the default is 3 days, we have no idea what your installation's setting for it is. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ On May 8, 2012, at 7:37 PM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: i tested even with a new request but still have the same issue, Thank You On 9 May 2012 05:56, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 5/8/2012 9:31 AM, dhanushka ranasinghe wrote: As you correctly mention when i click the link in the mail, it ask to click unsubscribe button unsubscripted ..After clicking , it get pormt another page called *Enter confirmation cookie* Any idea why this is happening.. The string you are entering has expired. These confirmations expire some time after they are sent. The time is set for the installation by setting PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE in mm_cfg.py. The default time is 3 days. If the confirmation email/invitation/??? was sent more than 3 days or whatever PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE is ago, the cookie has expired, and yoiu have to submit a new request. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lstone19%40stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stop working...help!
On Apr 22, 2012, at 7:31 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: Seun Ojedeji wrote: I was using mailman with postfix, then reading nice things about vpostmaster, i decided set it up to manage my user mail accounts. After setup, my mailman stopped delivering mails. Its returns with the error message below: ... So you replaced your Postfix MTA with some other MTA and you didn't teach the new MTA how to deliver to Mailman. Fixing this is a question for vPostMaster. It is not a Mailman issue per se, and various HowTo documents relating to configuring Mailman with Postfix are not going to help as long as you are using vPostMaster as your incoming MTA. Whatever MTA is listening on port 25 of your Mailman server has to be configured to deliver list mail to Mailman. I'd be surprised if anyone on this list is using vPostMaster as an MTA, thus it is unlikely you can get help here. It looks like vPostMaster is actually a package with management front end for installing/configuring Postfix and other stuff like ClamAV and SpamAssassin. Since he apparently had a working Postfix configuration, I suspect vPostMaster clobbered the configuration with something that knows nothing about Postfix. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting Up Mailman
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012, Wayne Cook wrote: I'm trying to move mailman from OSX server to OSX client on a mac mini with OSX 10.6 installed on the machine. I'm not a terminal expert, but can usually follow and figure things out, so I'm attempting to follow these instructions as closely as possible: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-May/069385.html I'm the author of that. Obviously I'm not doing something correctly because stuff isn't giving me the correct response when I check to see what python processes are running. I have some screen shots here: http://www.mycoachonline.com/mailmanshots/ Unfortunately, that page appears to be broken. Firefox just displays the alternate text and IE gives a red X. PS I think there is a typo in step 8 of the instructions, but I've tried it as written and the two ways that I think it should be written. It says create start_mailman.sh and the next line is vi mailman_start.sh, which may be correct if you know what you're doing, but to a novice like me it looks like one begins with start and the other begins with mailman...should it be as written or modified? That is an error. It is start_mailman.sh. But I am concerned that with three references in Step 8 to the file as start_mailman.sh and just the one as mailman_start.sh, you only THINK it's a typo. Even though it's Terminal and not a GUI, if you can't recognize that as an obvious typo, you might well be in over your head. Running server software requires an understanding of how things should be working to recognize when they're not working. And also, I assume familiarity with a Terminal text editor. While I've given you the format of the Terminal command to edit the file in vi (and vi is not the only way to edit a text file, it's just the one I know and use), I have not given you all the needed vi commands to create the file. If you merely typed the lines I said need to be be in the file without any vi commands, you did not end up with the file you need. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting Up Mailman
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012, Wayne Cook wrote: Your article is a LIFESAVER Larry, and I can GUARENTEE YOU that I'm in over my head! Hopefully with help I can muddle through this and learn something...the links to the screen shots should work now: http://www.mycoachonline.com/mailmanshots/ Screenshots of OS X windows aren't all that useful. They're just showing us that a file of the given name exists somewhere. It doesn't show us if it's exactly the right place or the contents. For the first window, two problems: 1) file name - as discussed in the previous note it should be start_mailman.sh and 2) more importantly, I'm pretty sure it's in the wrong directory. We want that in /var/root (at least we do if the that's where we told it would be mailman.plist) Please do the following in Terminal and send me the output including everything you typed and everything returned in response: cd /var/root ls -l *mailman* cat *mailman*.sh cd /Library/LaunchDaemons cat mailman.plist The start obviously failed but any output from it should be logged in /var/log/system.log. Try: grep -i mailman /var/log/system.log and include any output returned. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com On Wed, 18 Apr 2012, Wayne Cook wrote: I'm trying to move mailman from OSX server to OSX client on a mac mini with OSX 10.6 installed on the machine. I'm not a terminal expert, but can usually follow and figure things out, so I'm attempting to follow these instructions as closely as possible: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-May/069385.html I'm the author of that. Obviously I'm not doing something correctly because stuff isn't giving me the correct response when I check to see what python processes are running. I have some screen shots here: http://www.mycoachonline.com/mailmanshots/ Unfortunately, that page appears to be broken. Firefox just displays the alternate text and IE gives a red X. PS I think there is a typo in step 8 of the instructions, but I've tried it as written and the two ways that I think it should be written. It says create start_mailman.sh and the next line is vi mailman_start.sh, which may be correct if you know what you're doing, but to a novice like me it looks like one begins with start and the other begins with mailman...should it be as written or modified? That is an error. It is start_mailman.sh. But I am concerned that with three references in Step 8 to the file as start_mailman.sh and just the one as mailman_start.sh, you only THINK it's a typo. Even though it's Terminal and not a GUI, if you can't recognize that as an obvious typo, you might well be in over your head. Running server software requires an understanding of how things should be working to recognize when they're not working. And also, I assume familiarity with a Terminal text editor. While I've given you the format of the Terminal command to edit the file in vi (and vi is not the only way to edit a text file, it's just the one I know and use), I have not given you all the needed vi commands to create the file. If you merely typed the lines I said need to be be in the file without any vi commands, you did not end up with the file you need. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe:http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wcook%40mycoachonline. com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem creating mailing lists via webinterface in2.1.11
On Wed, 28 Mar 2012, Steve Matzura wrote: It would *never* be in my best interest not to give you all the info. The problem is, I don't know exactly what info you need or want, and what would be superfluous. Let's see if I can provide more below. Anything I've omitted, just ask and it shall be yours for the knowing. How about the error message you get when you try to create a list via the web interface. The one that you assumed we would somehow all know without you telling us (having never had an error when creating a list or if I did, not in recent years, I haven't the slightest clue what sort of error message you might have recieved). It seems rather likely that the error you received dealt with alias creation which you seem to want to think of as a second unrelated problem. I'd strongly suggest you start over and provide all relevant information in one post so we don't have to go through several messages to find the information you've dribbled out to us in multiple messages. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem creating mailing lists via webinterface in2.1.11
On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Steve Matzura wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:24:07 -0500 (CDT), you wrote: How about the error message you get when you try to create a list via the web interface. The one that you assumed we would somehow all know without you telling us (having never had an error when creating a list or if I did, not in recent years, I haven't the slightest clue what sort of error message you might have recieved). It seems rather likely that the error you received dealt with alias creation which you seem to want to think of as a second unrelated problem. Error already reported in a previous message, but here's the Reader's Digest version. After going through the process of creating a new list via the Web interface, the error message unknown virtual host is given, and no mailing list is created. Just to show you how confused this became, I thought unknown virtual host was the error being returned to someone trying to post. I do not recall you ever saying that was the error the web interface was returning. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Newer postfix: unused parameter: mailman_destination_recipient_limit=1
On Mar 9, 2012, at 3:17 PM, ml wrote: this depend version the postfix ks3 ~]# postconf -n | grep mailman alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases , hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,hash:/etc/mailman/aliases mailman_destination_recipient_limit = 1 virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual,hash:/etc/mailman/aliases ok on my machine While whether or not you get unused parameter warnings (and they are just warnings) depends on the Postfix version (the check was added in Postfix 2.9.0), whether or not mailman_destination_recipient_limit is used depends on whether or not you have defined a mailman transport in master.cf. If no mailman transport, then mailman_destination_recipient_limit is unused. If there is a mailman transport, then mailman_destination_recipient_limit is used. Postfix transports can be called anything you want to call them. There is nothing magic about a Postfix transport named mailman that ties it to GNU Mailman. So this is really a Postfix issue, not a Mailman issue. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Newer postfix: unused parameter: mailman_destination_recipient_limit=1
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012, Tanstaafl wrote:
Hi all,
I've had this parameter defined in my postfix ever since it was first set up
(not by me), and most everything I read online says it should be there.
But, the newer versions of postfix now provide warnings for unused
parameters, and that is what I'm getting for this one parameter:
myhost : Fri Mar 09, 13:16:12 : ~
# postconf -n | grep mailman
alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
virtual_alias_maps = ${mysql}/vam.cf,
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
postconf: warning: /etc/postfix/main.cf: unused parameter:
mailman_destination_recipient_limit=1
myhost : Fri Mar 09, 13:16:26 : ~
#
Anyone have any idea why? Am I indeed not using it? I'd rather not just
comment it out and test without some confirmation first, since this is a
production box.
transport_destination_recipient_limit is a Postfix parameter that is
specific to the named transport. If you don't have a transport named
mailman, then mailman_transport_destination_recipient is indeed unused.
-- Larry Stone
lston...@stonejongleux.com
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Re: [Mailman-Users] can I use a mailman list address as a (qmail)sender address?
On Tue, 7 Feb 2012, Stefan P. Wolf (NassRasur.com) wrote: Mark Sapiro wrote: I do not understand why this would be true? How does your MUA know that the list address is or is not a 'mail user' on your system? My MUA does not know about the server, my MUA knows about its own mail profiles. If mails are addressed to the list and come in on my PC and I hit reply then the MUA looks if it has a mail profile with the very same email address. I think there are a couple of issues that are leaving many of us confused. Why do you want to reply to email addressed to the list as the list rather than as you. That is not the way lists are normally used (e.g. I am replying to mail sent to this list as myself, not as the list). But if I can not use this email address for *sending* because I can not create this user on my server then this profile is useless and I have to create a different sending address which is not selected by the MUA automatically (instead the default mail profile is selected). Why does the list email address have to exist as a local user for you to send as it? Is your mail server doing a check to prevent mail being sent as from a non-existant user? While such checks (misguided in many cases, IMHO) can be set in many mail servers, it's not the default from my experience. If you have such checks, are they really needed? I don't recall if you described your environment but if it's one where you know all the users (as opposed to a public ISP), you probably don't need such checks. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] can I use a mailman list address as a (qmail)sender address?
On Wed, 8 Feb 2012, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Larry Stone writes: Why do you want to reply to email addressed to the list as the list rather than as you. That is not the way lists are normally used (e.g. I am replying to mail sent to this list as myself, not as the list). Yup. But he explained this. The list is the public face of a committee, and at least some outgoing mail should appear to be from the committee. I must have missed where he mentioned that. I started to wonder about about setting it as an anonymous list but that would affect all posts - both from user to the committee as well as responses from the committee. But maybe something could be done with two lists - one for the users to send to that is normal and a second that the committee replies via that is anonymous and has the main list as its only member (I think this is an umbrella list but having never used umbrella lists, I'm unsure). -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of Sympa (from Majordomo)
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Geoff Mayes wrote: If Mailman provided a way around the passwords in the clear issue, I'm pretty sure we'd go with Mailman ... My personal opionion is Mailman passwords are so insignificant that it really shouldn't be an issue. On the other hand, I recognize that you may have direction from above that because it's called a password, it needs to be ulta-secure (there are, unfortunately, too many bosses who don't understand security and don't understand that different types of systems have different security needs). How much damage could be done if a Mailman user password was compromised? How much damage could be done if my on-line banking password was compromised? The answers are very different yet there are many who want them secured in the same way. I so rarely use a Mailman password that I don't even try to remember it. If I need to use it on a Mailman system, I have it send it to me, use it, then forget it. If someone wants to mess up my subscription on a Mailman system, well, go ahead. I have far more important things in life to worry about. Also, consider how many other times passwords are sent in the clear, just not in email. A snail mail with a password is also a password sent in the clear yet few seem to have a problem with that. Maybe because I practice good password managment, I am less concerned about an email being snooped than I am about snail mail theft or privileged access abuses. I would not worry about Mailman passwords being sent in the clear and instead, urge users to use good password practices. For Mailman, encourage them to let Mailman assign a password (and thereby, not reuse a PW). Because no matter what you do, people will reuse passwords, use the same password for low and high security needs, use easy-to-guess passwords, write them down, and other things that just make Mailman's password concerns the least of your organization's security concerns. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] How to turn off plain text passwords?
Jeffrey Walton writes: The best I can tell, Mailman 2 did the wrong thing. The best I can tell, your expectations for Mailman's security and the software authors' expectations are completely different. As has already been explained, it is a low level of security designed to prevent (maybe I should just say discourage) mischief. It is not intended to be as secure as what secures your bank accounts. If your Mailman password is compromised, what is the most damage that can be done? Very little. Mailman works with Mail. SMTP mail is very insecure with headers, etc. easily spoofed (by design - just as I can easily spoof the sender on a piece of paper mail I drop in a mailbox). What good does high security on Mailman do if it's trivial to step around the gate? A good comparison would be the lock on most home bathrooms. It is designed to prevent someone from accidently walking in on you. It is not designed to prevent someone who is determined to get in that bathroom even though it is locked. You normally do not use the same types of locks on a bathroom as you use on your front door. Heck, a bank does not secure their lobby as tightly as they secure their vault. Are they wrong for doing that? Confer: list managers did not fix Mailman 2 (nor did they use other software which was secure). Why would you expect them to research and securely configure Mailman 3? List managers have nothing to do with this. Us list managers did not write the software. We're just higher level users of Mailman than the reader of a mailing list that uses Mailman. But we're still just users. If Mailman does not meet your needs due to it failing to meet the security requirements you personally have, don't use it. If you're just a reader of a list run through Mailman, then use a password you don't care about (by default, Mailman generates random passwords. I don't even bother to save them as I know I can recover it easily in the unlikely event I actually ever need it). -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] problem with Mailman on Mac OS X Snow Leopard client
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011, Graham Young wrote: Mail generated by Mailman hangs in my dedicated, on-board MTA's queue unless I remove a certain bit of custom Postfix configuration that I entered following instructions kindly posted here by one Larry Stone. I guess I'm best to answer this. The bit of custom Postfix configuration that I've experimented with removing is exactly as follows: hash:/etc/postfix/aliases The context in which this bit is supposed to appear is as follows: alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases. I just remove the bit, leaving: alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases. Again, with just this as remnant of my custom Postscript configuration, Mailman-generated mail gets sent. alias_maps is this list of aliases, local addresses which do not get delivered locally but rather get sent elsewhere. That could be another address (for instance, on my system, postmaster is an alias for me so I get all postmaster mail) or for Mailman, a pipe to the Mailman mail input script. The error message that Postfix repeatedly issues when I don't have the suspect portion of this bit of custom Postscript configuration removed is as follows: Oct 10 21:10:05 email postfix/local[75578]: fatal: open database /etc/postfix/aliases.db: No such file or directory It means exactly what it says. /etc/postfix/aliases.db does not exist. Finally, inasmuch as it may be relevant, I next post feedback that I get from a certain postconf command, specifically postconf alias_maps: alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases That should be the outpust of postconf -d alias_maps. -d means the default value. On my system (and I have never touched this part), /etc/aliases is a softlink to /etc/postfix/aliases (in other words, just a pointer to that file). So the real is why does /etc/postfix/aliases.db not exist. It's not really required and it isn't part of Mailman. I had assumed it was past of the standard Postfix installation on OS X client but perhaps not (or maybe it was and no longer is but I didn't realize that because I've been upgrading or moving all the way from 10.3. (a digression as to how aliases.db is created. aliases is a text file in a prescribed format. To turn it into the hash table Postfix wants to use, it's run through postmap. postmap hash:aliases created aliases.db) The purpose of that customization is to append Mailman's alias file to the existing alias file. If you don't have /etc/postfix/aliases.db, then don't include it in alias_maps. It's that simple. If you have a different aliases file, use that in place of /etc/postfix/aliases in alias_maps. The best way to do this is to look in your Postfix main.cf for an earlier definition of alias_maps. So if you find alias_maps = hash:foo, then replace my instructions with alias_maps = hash:foo, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases If there is no prior definition of alias_maps in main.cf, then do postconf -d alias_maps and then: alias_maps = (whatever postconf -d alias_maps returned), hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases However, please note that my instructions assume and expect familiarity with Postfix. If you don't understand Postfix, you will almost certainly have other problems in the future. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Blocked By Earthlink
On 6/20/11 1:01 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull at step...@xemacs.org wrote: We migrated the server to a VPS from speakeasy and added DKIM a couple of Uh, did you know this? steve@uwakimon ~ $ host speakeasy.com speakeasy.com has address 207.217.125.50 speakeasy.com mail is handled by 5 mx01-dom.earthlink.net. speakeasy.com mail is handled by 5 mx00-dom.earthlink.net. Speakeasy the ISP is speakeasy.net. Speakeasy.com is an unrelated software vendor. While I assume the OP is talking about Speakeasy.net, I do not see VPS mentioned as one of the services they offer (note that I am a very satisfied Speakeast.net DSL customer). -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list sends but doesn't receive mail.
On 4/18/11 1:53 AM, JRC Groups at joemailgro...@gmail.com wrote: I have read the page and also contacted Larry Stone. His instructions are for installation on OS X client and not OS X Server. I haven't found instructions on how to remove the Mailman version bundled by Apple with OS X Server. One of my concerns is that Apple's version and the downloaded version would both have several (if not all) files installed as default in the same location and this could lead to potential conflicts. With some more thought than my quick private reply to you last night, I don't think this is an issue. IIRC, you choose where to install Mailman and I believe it is self-contained in that directory. My latest instructions (for Snow Leopard) suggest /usr/local/mailman but previous versions suggested /Applications/mailman (and if you wanted to, you could call it something like /usr/local/my_private_copy_of_mailman_which_does_not_conflict_with_Apples which is inelegant but would work and I'm pretty sure really does not conflict :-) ). So long as the directory you pick does not exist, then you will not be at risk of a conflict. You would, of course, have to change that name throughout my instructions but that is trivial. The instructions do call for modifying some configuration files of other software (Postfix and Apache) but those files are intended to be user-modifiable and Apple provided updates should not be overriding your mofications. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.
On 4/3/11 1:42 AM, JRC Groups at joemailgro...@gmail.com wrote: I also can't imagine that it would be too difficult to install a new version of Mailman and manage it using its browser-based interface while ignoring Apple's System Administrator tool for this specific task. It should not be difficult. I'll repeat what I posted Wednesday: I'll add that there are a number of here who run Mailman on OS X Client. Searching the archives, you will find full step-by-step directions for installing it. Blowing away the Apple provided Mailman (or just ignoring it) and installing a clean unmodified version from source will give you, on OS X Server, the same as those of on Client have. Going through the process yourself will teach you far more than having someone do it for you. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.
On 3/30/11 7:36 PM, Brad Knowles at b...@shub-internet.org wrote: I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both cases, the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to install the real deal code as downloaded from list.org. I'll add that there are a number of here who run Mailman on OS X Client. Searching the archives, you will find full step-by-step directions for installing it. Blowing away the Apple provided Mailman (or just ignoring it) and installing a clean unmodified version from source will give you, on OS X Server, the same as those of on Client have. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Explicit destination causes implicit destination bounce
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011, Ian Gibbs wrote: Dear all, I have read http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030676 FAQ 1.9 about implicit destination. I am sending directly To: the list with no other recipients. The host_name setting is pumb.org.uk. The conversation I had with the SMTP server is shown below. It still results in an implicit destination error. Can anyone suggest why, please? You have no To: header (or any other headers for that matter). The recipient listed on a RCPT TO: command to the SMTP server (known in the SMTP world as the envelope recipient) is not the same as a To: header. Since the Mailman list address was not found in the message's non-existent To: or Cc: headers, it is an implicit destination. To SMTP, headers are part of the message's data. They are completely separate from the SMTP commands that tell an SMTP server what to do with the message (otherwise, BCC could not work. A BCC recipient never appears in the headers (or wouldn't be blind) but the BCC recipient must be in the RCPT TO: SMTP command as how else would the destination server know to deliver it to the BCC recipient). user@workstation:~$ telnet server 25 Trying IP... Connected to server. Escape character is '^]'. 220 server ESMTP Exim 4.71 Fri, 11 Mar 2011 14:43:29 + HELO workstation 250 server Hello workstation [89.16.174.50] MAIL FROM:external@email.address 250 OK RCPT TO:mail...@pumb.org.uk 250 Accepted DATA 354 Enter message, ending with . on a line by itself Subject:Testing from guinevere 3 This is a message 3 . 250 OK id=1Py3ZU-0003YI-Rz QUIT 221 server closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Explicit destination causes implicitdestination bounce
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: Larry's response is correct except for this one detail. Actually, this message has a Subject: header and a non-conformant This header and no body. The body must be separated from the headers by an empty line. Oops. I looked at the original way too quickly. Thanks, Mark, for correcting my post. The lesson in this is that SMTP, like almost all computer command sets, is very intolerant of even the slightest mistake. It does exactly what you tell it to do and has no idea what you meant when you get it wrong. Using Telnet to test SMTP has its uses (I do it to make sure the anti-spam controls on the commands works since that's hard to do by other means) but unless you are prepared to type everything in painful detail, expect weird results. Mailman is best tested with real messages sent by a proper MUA. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] does mailman ever automatically delete an expired email address?
On Thu, 10 Mar 2011, Jane Frizzell wrote: Hello Does mailman ever delete members from lists automatically for any reason? One of the owners of one of our lists (only 1 list seems to have been affected) recently reported that he had lost 100 users from his list. They were removed, not just marked as nomail. A primary look at some of the names lost. show that the addresses were no longer valid email addresses. Yes, Mailman's bounce processing will do so. The specifics as to how many bounces and how long to wait before removing the user can be set by the list administrator. I believe bounce processing is on by default. This is, in general, a good thing as excessive sending to dead addresses is a good way to get yourself on some of the anti-spam blacklists. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Missing password reminders
On Wed, 12 Jan 2011, Allan Hansen wrote: Hi all, I run Mailman 2.1.13 under Mac OS X Server 10.5.8. The mail delivery works fine (so far), but some of my subscribers insist that they are not getting the password reminders. One uses Google Mail, another Earthlink, so it's not provider specific. They assure me that the password reminder is not in their spam folder. The lists have password reminders turned on and the users have password reminders turned on. For the users that complain, I don't have bounces resulting from the reminders. Other users of the same lists get password reminders just fine. First, determine if it's actually your problem and if so, is it a Mailman problem or someplace else on your system. look at your mail server logs and see if the message went out. If the password reminder message is being accepted by their provider, then it is not your problem. If you don't see it being accepted, then determine where things are failing on your system. Is Mailman giving it to the mail server (Postfix on a Macintosh)? Once Postfix has it, Mailman has done its job. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list sends but doesn't receive mail.
On 12/8/10 2:01 PM, JRC Groups at joemailgro...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a simpler way than Terminal (command line) to edit these files and then resave them ? Something along the lines of a text editor. Or do I need to use Terminal to do it ? In this case, if Terminal is necessary, can you guide on how to take a step by step approach to getting it done ? I have never edited a file (specially a system file) in Terminal before and don't know how to go about it. This is somewhat off-topic for the Mailman list but if you want to do any sort of advanced system administration on a Macintosh, you need, IMHO, to be familiar with Unix shell commands and related utility. The Mac OS X Terminal program just creates a shell process and window where you then execute shell commands. At a minimum, you need to be familiar with certain basic commands like ls (directory) and commands for creating (touch among others), renaming/MoVing (mv), and deleting/ReMoving (rm) files and directories (mkdir, mv, and rmdir respectively). You also need to be familiar with one of the standard text editors (vi or emacs) as well as commands for dealing with file ownership (chown) and permissions (chmod). -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman right for us?
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Alison Epstein wrote: We're considering using Mailman for our organization's listservs. But I'm I'll save Mark the trouble of dealing with this part. Listserv (capital L) is the trademarked name of a competing mailing list managment product. It is not a generic term for a mailing list or mailing list management software. The word should generally not be used on this list. having trouble finding a demo to try or some screen snapshots so that I can even determine if this is the right software for us. I need something for our discussion lists. (We also have announce-only lists.) The discussion lists ideally would have an archive that is accessible. Also, some of our lists need to have the ability to have multiple moderators / posters who may or may not be list subscribers. For instance, we have staff in Jerusalem Chicago. We have mailing lists for each office, but all staff members can post to either list. For example: A Jerusalem staff member can send a message that only the Chicago staff will receive. Can you point me to a demo to try or a good place to find these answers? Mailman can do all that. There is no demo version because Mailman is a free product. Install it and see if it does what you need it to do. The FAQ (a link to it is at the bottom of every message on this list) can answer a lot of your questions including some HOW-TOs and installation guides. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Confirmation to Welcome Delay
On Mon, 24 May 2010, Greg Sims wrote: We are using mailman to support a 5,000 person distribution list. The majority of our interactions with users is by email between the users and the mailman software - humans do not get involved. The way our software is configured, the users see the following sequence to subscribe to our email list: 1. Web form is filled out to subscribe by user 2. Sever generates an email to the user to confirm the subscription request 3. User replies to the subscription confirmation to the server - typically hitting Reply and then Send 4. The user receives a Welcome to the mailing list email Our users are seeing a delay of 15 minutes between step 3 and step 4 above. Many times this delay is too much for our users to handle or confusing. This is especially the case when the time between step 1 and step 2 above is generally less than one minute. This delay between steps 3 and 4 many times results in the user sending an email to our webmaster - instead of waiting out the 15 minute delay. That does not sound like a Mailman issue but rather a mail delivery issue to your mail server. Is the mail server doing greylisting? That would cause the confirmation email to initially be deferred by the receiving mail server, then accepted the next time the sending server attempts to send it. How long until the next attempt to send is controlled by the sending server so I doubt they're all exactly 15 minutes. If it's not that, you will need to look at your logs (both mailman and the mail server) to figure out where the delay is being introduced. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Snow Leoparrd (MacOS X 10.6) CLIENT installation steps for Mailman (CORRECTED)
Mailman directly, we will have it run a script we put in root's home directory that does it a way I've found more reliable (by waiting one second after issuing the command to start mailman before it exits): a) In Terminal, change directory to /var/root/: cd /var/root b) Using your favorite text editor (vi, emacs, or whatever), create the file start_mailman.sh. For instance, with vi, type: vi mailman_start.sh And enter the lines: #!/bin/sh /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start sleep 1 Save and exit. c) Change permissions to make it executable: chmod 755 start_mailman.sh d) Create the Mailman startup preference file: cd /Library/LaunchDaemons touch mailman.plist c) Using your favorite method of text editing, add the following content to mailman.plist: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? plist version=1.0 dict keyDisabled/key false/ keyLabel/key stringmailman/string keyOnDemand/key true/ keyProgramArguments/key array string/var/root/start_mailman.sh/string /array keyServiceIPC/key false/ keyRunAtLoad/key true/ /dict /plist d) Verify the file ownership and permissions: ls -l You should see one of the lines saying something like: -rw-r--r-- 5 root wheel 170 12 May 11:21 mailman.plist e) If the permissions (rw-r--r--) are not correct, type: chmod 644 mailman.plist f) If the owner (root) or group (wheel) is not correct, type: chown root:wheel mailman.plist g) Go into launchctl and enable Mailman. This should also cause it to start immediately. launchctl load -w mailman.plist (the -w is very important. The Disabled attribute in the .plist is no longer used. Instead, Disabled status for all launchd plists is stored in /var/db/laubchd.db/com.apple.launchd/overrides.plist and is set/unset by the -w on the launchctl load/unload commands. Yes, it does seems needlessly complicated). Mailman should have started. To verify, open Terminal and type: ps -efw | grep python You should see a bunch of lines like this: 78 1099 1 0 0:00.01 ?? 0:00.01 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start 78 1101 1099 0 0:08.38 ?? 0:18.67 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s 78 1102 1099 0 0:07.29 ?? 0:17.57 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s 78 1103 1099 0 0:08.46 ?? 0:18.83 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s 78 1104 1099 0 0:08.14 ?? 0:18.16 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s 78 1105 1099 0 0:07.92 ?? 0:17.73 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s 78 1107 1099 0 0:07.72 ?? 0:18.54 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s 78 1108 1099 0 0:07.80 ?? 0:17.66 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s 78 1109 1099 0 0:00.07 ?? 0:00.19 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s 0 15583 15537 0 0:00.00 ttys0000:00.00 grep pyth (The numbers will vary. The important thing is that you see the qrunner processes.) Step 9) Enjoy! At this point, mailman should be ready to use. Read the documentation in your source directory for instructions on setting up your mailing lists. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lstone19%40stonejongleu x.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd
I know, I'm reopening a ten month old thread. But I think I have a good workaround. On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: --On 26. Juni 2009 20:22:13 +0900 Matthias Schmidt b...@admilon.net wrote: Am/On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:22:02 -0500 schrieb/wrote Larry Stone: On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at br...@bryanharrison.com wrote: I've built and installed Mailman 2.12 from current source code and have it running just fine under OS X Server 10.5.7, with on exception, which is not properly speaking a Mailman problem at all. If I start Mailman from the CLI, using /usr/share/mailman/bin/ mailmanctl -s start, all is well. If I allow launchd to start it ScaronI get an endless succession ofScaron Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master qrunner. Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 9 seconds The reason this happens is that launchd expects the processes it launches to stick around. They must not daemonize. But mailmanctl terminates after it has started the runners. I assume that Apple modified their own distribution of Mailman so that mailmanctl behaves differently. I'd suggest comparing the two. I've been playing around with Mailman on a 10.6 (Snow Leopard) machine. It's for testing right now (at the next refresh of Mac Minis or iMacs, I plan to buy one to replace my PPC iMac that is currently my everything server - for now I'm testing on my laptop, the only Intel Mac I currently have). So I found that unlike on the PPC iMac, where Mailman starts OK after about 75% of the boots, on the laptop, it consistently died. No stray process system.log message but perhaps that's a 10.5/10.6 difference. But I did see that the lock files were being created in $mailman_prefix/locks. So what's different? Well, the laptop is a lot faster. Factor? I think so. I know almost nothing about the internals of forking processes and daemonizing but if I have it right, when 'mailmanctl start' is run, it forks a second copy which daemonizes. Meanwhile, the first copy of mailmanctl exits. My guess is that the first copy was exiting and the process terminating before the second copy had performed whatever magic it does to deamonize and run on its own. My workaround, which appears to work so far, is to have launchd, rather than run mailmanctl directly (via a .plist in /Library/LaunchDaemons), instead run a script in root's home directory that runs mailmanctl, then sleeps for one second before exiting: #!/bin/sh /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start sleep 1 -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Snow Leoparrd (MacOS X 10.6) CLIENT installation steps for Mailman
mailman_start.sh And enter the lines: #!/bin/sh /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start sleep 1 Save and exit. c) Change permissions to make it executable: chmod 755 start_mailman.sh d) Create the Mailman startup preference file: cd /Library/LaunchDaemons touch mailman.plist c) Using your favorite method of text editing, add the following content to mailman.plist: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? plist version=1.0 dict keyDisabled/key false/ keyLabel/key stringmailman/string keyOnDemand/key true/ keyProgramArguments/key array string/var/root/start_mailman.sh/string /array keyServiceIPC/key false/ keyRunAtLoad/key true/ /dict /plist d) Verify the file ownership and permissions: ls -l You should see one of the lines saying something like: -rw-r--r-- 5 root wheel 170 12 May 11:21 mailman.plist e) If the permissions (rw-r--r--) are not correct, type: chmod 644 mailman.plist f) If the owner (root) or group (wheel) is not correct, type: chown root:wheel mailman.plist g) Go into launchctl and enable Mailman. This should also cause it to start immediately. launchctl load -w mailman.plist (the -w is very important. The Disabled attribute in the .plist is no longer used. Instead, Disabled status for all launchd plists is stored in /var/db/laubchd.db/com.apple.launchd/overrides.plist and is set/unset by the -w on the launchctl load/unload commands. Yes, it does seems needlessly complicated). Mailman should have started. To verify, open Terminal and type: ps -efw | grep python You should see a bunch of lines like this: 78 1099 1 0 0:00.01 ?? 0:00.01 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start 78 1101 1099 0 0:08.38 ?? 0:18.67 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s 78 1102 1099 0 0:07.29 ?? 0:17.57 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s 78 1103 1099 0 0:08.46 ?? 0:18.83 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s 78 1104 1099 0 0:08.14 ?? 0:18.16 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s 78 1105 1099 0 0:07.92 ?? 0:17.73 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s 78 1107 1099 0 0:07.72 ?? 0:18.54 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s 78 1108 1099 0 0:07.80 ?? 0:17.66 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s 78 1109 1099 0 0:00.07 ?? 0:00.19 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s 0 15583 15537 0 0:00.00 ttys0000:00.00 grep pyth (The numbers will vary. The important thing is that you see the qrunner processes.) Step 9) Enjoy! At this point, mailman should be ready to use. Read the documentation in your source directory for instructions on setting up your mailing lists. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Site password not functioning
On Thu, 1 Apr 2010, Rob wrote: Good morning, While dealing with a flood of returned mails generated by the monthly password reminders sent out today, I noticed that my site admin password no longer functions correctly. Mailman accepts the password, and I can make changes to records, but if I attempt, for instance, to view a user record and choose the 'List my other subscriptions' button, I get the The list administrator may not view the other subscriptions for this user. error. I know this worked previously, but I don't know what changed. ... This is Mailman 2.1.13 running on Mac OS X server 10.5.8 Did you install from sources or are you running the version Apple provides with OS X Server? If the latter, what probably changed is Apple updating you to 2.1.13 in the Security Update that came out last week (I'm assuming you must have installed that already). The Release Notes for the update say it upgraded Mailman. Apple's idea of security vulnerabilities can sometimes be considered as being the way you want to use a product is not the way they think you should be using it. Like every Security Update on OS X Client reconfiguring Postfix so that it does not listen to the outside world. Their idea is you don't run a full-blown mail server on Client so listening to the outside world is a vulnerability while for those of who do want the full-blown server, it's a feature. :-( (make note to self, make backup copies of the Postfix config files before installing the update this weekend). -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] List Limitations
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Richard Berta wrote: We're looking to start a new listserv Listserv is not a synonym for mailing list. Rather, it is the trademarked name for a competing brand of mailing list management software. Please do not use listserv in connection with GNU Mailman. with 3,000+ names, can the current system handle something of that size? Mailman can easily handle a list of that size. If you are to have an issue, it will be with your computer's resources (memory, disk space, etc.) and/or Internet bandwidth. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Macs Mailman software
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, PJ Mills User wrote: Does Mailman software work with Macs? Yes. Macintoshes have Unix as their underlying operating system so it is very possible. If you check the FAQ or search the archives, you will find much on the topic. Apple includes a modified version of Mailman with Mac OS X Server. Due to the changes Apple has made, it is unsupported by this group. Mailman can be installed and built from source on Mac OS X client. In the archives, you will find much on doing so including instructions I wrote on installing it on Tiger and notes on the upgrade to Leopard. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam filtering
On 2/17/10 7:56 AM, Geoff Shang at ge...@quitelikely.com wrote: 1. It's possible to use an IP address to block(at least temporarily) these messages. If I put this IP address into a Mailman spam filter, will this be checked *before* checking whether or not the person is a member of the list? I want to know if list admins can block these without bugging their site admins to do it upstream. Probably better to do this in the MTA, not Mailman. 2. One idea I came up with for rejecting spoofed mail is for the receiving SMTP server to somehow check if the sending one is an MX for the domain given in the From header. Are there any obvious problems with this approach? Is anyone actually doing this? It seems so simple that there surely must be some reason why it's not done. A bad idea. MX records identify servers that RECEIVE mail for the domain. They say nothing about which servers can SEND mail for the domain. While in many cases, they are the same servers, there is no requirement that they be so and many large ISPs split the functions. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Questions
On 2/9/10 7:39 AM, Boston-McCracken, Meghan at m.boston-mccrac...@healthnexus.ca wrote: I am the administrator of the Maternal Newborn and Child Health Promotion (MNCHP) listserv. Listserv is the trademarked name for L-Soft's mailing list management product. It is not the same as GNU Mailman . Please do not refer to a GNU Mailman list as a listserv or use listserv as a generic term for mailing lists or mailing list management software. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] closing account
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Per-Erik Ottosson wrote: Hi, I have for quite a long time ago, closing an account. Account name was nallesresa.se. I still get mail about how to renew your password, the list is not maintained. Can you remove it completely. You need to contact the administrators of the system that is sending you these messages. This list is for discussion by Mailman administrators of how to use Mailman. It is not a support list specific to the server that is sending you the messages nor do we have any access to that site. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010, King, Leslie wrote: Can your program work on a Mac? You've already had a couple of answers. I have written (and it should be found in the archives) installation instructions for various recent versions of Mac OS X. That said, and with no idea of what your expectations and capabilities are, it is not a piece of consumer software that you just copy on to your Macintosh and double-click. You will be turning your Macintosh into a server (no, you don't need to have Mac OS X Server), you will need a mail server running, you will be downloading the Mailman source and building it (requires Mac OS X Developer Tools), you will be modifying the internal web server on your computer, and you will need to modify system startup files (Mailman runs in the background). In short, you need to be a reasonably skilled system administrator. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Goodman, William wrote: Interesting... I also manage the mail servers, we use postfix with Amavid, ClamAV and Spamassassian. I know this is a mailman list but, is that (SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500) a postfix mail server configuration? Since you're also managing the mail servers, you should be able to look in the postfix logs to see what's happening. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Is There a list member limitation?
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Goodman, William wrote: I see things like below to users I know didn't receive the email. So you first assessment is correct they did receive it but they just can't find it. Uh no, the message below is a deferral. Postfix keeps retrying until it times out at which point is bounced. How long until it times out is a site configurable length of time (default five days, I think). to=u...@somewhere.com, relay=mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179]:25, delay=8.3, delays=0.02/4.4/0.67/3.3, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mail.somewhere.com[212.137.44.179] said: 451 u...@somewhere.com... Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Jan 13 15:25:00 my-mailserver postfix/smtp[28262]: B405E2D858F -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Dunivan Realtors List
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010, David Dunivan wrote: Please help. I just sent out my 1st email marketing flyer through LIstserv and I am getting a lot of complaints that their is no Unsubscribe Button. Please advise me on how I can get this done immediately to my account. I did not see this option under the Admin. Page. This is very important. My account is under lists.dunivanrealtors.com First, if you sent out a mass email marketing flyer and are getting lots of complaints, it sounds like you are probably a spammer. A well-managed mailing list, in general, had only subscribers who have opted-in and confirmed the opt-in. If people are immediately wanting to unsubscribe, it does not sound like it was confirmed opt-in. But if you're not a spammer, you are apparently at the wrong place. This mailing list is about Mailman. You asked about Listserv(tm) which is a competing mailing list manager. Now on the chance that you really are asking about Mailman and said Listserv because you think like way too many people that listserv is just a generic term for a mailing list manager rather than someone's trademarked brand name, Mailman just sends on what it is sent. If you want an unsunscribe button, you need to send your message as HTML and design it into the HTML. Mailman does send mailing list management headers in each message (always? or does that need to be turned on? I'm not sure) but that requires the reader to have an e-mail client that recognizes the headers and not all do. Also, this list is about the Mailman software itself. We have no access to the site running your list. You need to contact your site administrator about making chnages to your site. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Error running bin/mailmanctl restart
I recognize some of my words in what Paul has quoted below so let me comment. The discussion Paul is quoting from dealt with running Mailman on Mac OS X CLIENT whereas Paul is dealing with Mac OS X SERVER. OS X Server comes with a bastardized version of Mailman where as OS X Client has nothing except a Mailman account (Why is the account already there? Who knows!). The undocumented changes Apple has made have been talked about much before and I thought with the conclusion that the Apple provided version in Server is unsupported here due to the kind issues Paul is having. My suggestion would be to remove the Apple provided version of Mailman, the install the official version from source. Once the Apple version is gone, I see no reason that instructions for installing from scratch that I've previously posted would not work. Heck, they might even work fine in parallel with the Apple version (which obviously then should not be allowed to run). I'm pretty sure, if I remember my own instructions correctly, that I have Mailman self-contained within /Applications/mailman except for the startup file in /Library/LaunchDaemons (which might need to be given a slightly different name to avoid a conflict), the modifications to the Apache configuration file, and the modifications to the Postfix configuration file for the aliases (all of which should be preserved by any Apple upgrades). -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com On Thu, 17 Dec 2009, Paul Kleeberg wrote: I am ready to tear my hair out. Thanks to Mark, I got mailman up and running except for one minor hitch. In my log file I see an endless stream of: 12/17/09 11:56:49 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl) Throttling respawn: Will start in 10 seconds 12/17/09 11:57:00 AM com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl) Throttling respawn: Will start in 10 seconds Searching the archives, I found this (The thread starts at http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg53952.html): The only difference between my org.list.mailmanctl.plist and Apple's is my verb *start*, as opposed to Apple's *startf*. I'm baffled by *startf*, which is not supported by mailman and does nothing, either in the CLI or in org.list.mailmanctl.plist. Further on down in the messages I read: I just caught that Bryan notes that he receives an endless succession of those messages where as I see one and that's it. Comparing our launchd .plist files, I see a few differences: Bryan: keyOnDemand/key false/ Me: keyOnDemand/key true/ keyRunAtLoad/key true/ So I made that change to /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/org.list.mailmanctl.plist. Everything appeared to work fine, web interface works, creating a list works but qrunner does not to appear to start on bootup. it appears that I now have to manually run: sudo /usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start to get mailman to start. That concerns me. I need to know how to get it to start on boot and how to restart itself if it dies. When this is all done, I would be happy to summarize what I learned for http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030530. Paul -- Paul Kleeberg p...@fpen.org On Dec 17, 2009, at 9:35 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: Paul Kleeberg wrote: and get the following error: * Installation directory /var/mailman is not configured properly! * Directory must be owned by group _mailman: /var/mailman /var/mailman is has the settings root:wheel while the files inside are root:_mailman. Do I need to change the group of the /var/mailman directory for the install? I know that change is probably not significant, but I an not sure enough of my knowledge to know. It is only significant to configure in your case, but configure whant the prefix and var_prefix directories to be SETGID and Mailman's group so that subordinates created by make install will be the same. When you originally asked about this off line, I thought what you had would be OK because it was a working installation, but apparently it only works for Apple :( You need to chgrp _mailman /var/mailman chmod g+s /var/mailman to make configure happy. The prefix directory (/usr/share/mailman in your case) needs to be the same. Once I get this right, I plan on upgrading a 10.6.2 production server running 2.1.12rc1 to 2.1.12. FYI, 2.1.13rc1 is released and 2.1.13 final will be released next week barring the unexpected. It fixes several minor bugs in 2.1.12. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users
Re: [Mailman-Users] Error running bin/mailmanctl restart
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009, Steve Burling wrote: At one point, I compared the stock mailmanctl with that from the one Apple distributes with Mac OS X Server. The only difference was that the 'start' stanza in main() had been cloned as a 'startf' stanza, with a couple of relatively minor changes, primarily (if I remember correctly) to make it not daemonize, since things run from launchd aren't allowed to daemonize. I *think* that that's what's leading to the problem you see -- mailmanctl daemonizes, launchd cleans it up and it respawns, eventually triggering the error. I forgot about the deamonizing issue. But, it can sort of be worked around. In the note Paul quoted from, we have (and I am the Me in the quote; I forget who Bryan is): I just caught that Bryan notes that he receives an endless succession of those messages where as I see one and that's it. Comparing our launchd .plist files, I see a few differences: Bryan: keyOnDemand/key false/ Me: keyOnDemand/key true/ keyRunAtLoad/key true/ With OnDemand set to false, launchctl thinks you want mailmanctl always running. But mailmanctl daemonizes and exits so launchctl tries to restart it. With my OnDemand set to true and RunAtLoad set to true, launchctl tries to run mailmanctl once at boot and is done with it. That mailmanctl exits is find. But it comes at the cost of launchctl not knowing anything about Mailman after mailmanctl exits. It won't restart it if it subsequently dies (has not been a problem for me. I have a cron job that runs hourly and e-mails me if a qrunner is missing not that one ever is once it's up and running). But Paul mentioned that he tried OnDemand = true and RunAtLoad = true and no qrunners (Paul, did you reboot or force a reload of the launchd plist for mailman?). So we'd need to see log files as to what's happening. If there's nothing in any logfile (including system.log), then I'd guess the plist was never reloaded. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Getting ready to try my first install of mailman on OS-X
On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, John Lieber wrote: Beyond my control is that we are not using OS-X Server. That is a good thing. Installing on OS X Client means you do it the right way rather than having the Apple dain-bramaged version they include with Server. Awaiting a call that will get me access to the machine (remote location) to find out the specifics (Which OS version/etc). All I know is that it is a Mac Mini. Very possible it is Tiger (PowerPC)... Well, which version would be good to know. Tiger is actually better than Leopard as there is an unresolved issue with Leopard's system startup that occasionally causes the Mailman startup to fail. So for right now if anyone has any links that I can read up on or hints/tips/suggestions.. I currently have Mailman running on OS X Client and have posted installation instructions for both Panther and Tiger as well as notes on my upgrade to Leopard. The Tiger instructions can be found in the archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg33402.html. A search will let you find the Panther instructions and Leopard notes if you need those. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lstone19%40stonejongleux.com -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Taking a stab at Mailman on Mac OS X
On 11/26/09 12:12 AM, Larry Stone at lston...@stonejongleux.com wrote: Also, search the archives as I have posted detailed instructions on installing Mailman on Mac OS X. There is a version for Tiger (10.4) I posted on 7/17/05. Now that I had time to do the search myself, the URL is http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg33402.html. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Taking a stab at Mailman on Mac OS X
On 11/25/09 9:32 PM, Bill Catambay at and...@excaliburworld.com wrote: Is there anyone on this list who has successfully got Mailman running on Mac OS? As Mark posted, you need to install the developer tools. Also, search the archives as I have posted detailed instructions on installing Mailman on Mac OS X. There is a version for Tiger (10.4) I posted on 7/17/05. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature request: Emergency Broadcast
On 11/22/09 2:53 PM, Bill Catambay at and...@excaliburworld.com wrote: When I used Autoshare listserver software, it ran on my home server (a Mac), and I never had to rely on anyone for support (handled everything myself). Unfortunately, that software has not been updated in over 10 years and is no longer supported (there isn't even a version that runs on Mac OS X, only a classic version). I noticed my ISP offered mailing lists (using Mailman), and I made the move this year to migrate all my lists. Assuming you can still run servers at home with your ISP, you can run Mailman on Max OS X. While Apple provides a modified version with OS X Server, it is easy to install from source on OS X client and instructions to do so can be found in the Archived. I am currently running Mailman 2.1.12 on Leopard (on a PPC iMac not that that will make any difference). -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman current version?
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Christopher Adams wrote: I have been using Mailman 2.1.12 for awhile now and am migrating to a different server. When I looked on the website, I found two sources for the Mailman package, Launchpad and Gnu. It says that Gnu tends to lag behind in versions available. In Launchpad, it says the current version is 3.0.0a3 and Gnu has 2.1.12. I am pretty sure that the latter is the most current stable version and I have not seen any posts about a new version, so? I'm surprised none of the developers here have answered (unless I somehow missed it) but I assume the a in that 3.0.0a3 means alpha. In other words, a very preliminary first look version and not at all suitable for any sort of production work. I do recall a mention of a first alpha version of Mailman 3 but unless you're into heavy testing on a separate system, stay away from it for now. IMHO, the mailman team is very good about version numbering and officially calling something a production version when it's ready. Contrast that to the far too many projects that don't understand versioning and will put out a beta and then if it works, just say use the beta, it's the current latest working version. With Mailman, wait for an official production release as it will come when everything is ready. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd
On 6/26/09 6:22 AM, Matthias Schmidt at b...@admilon.net wrote: Am/On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:22:02 -0500 schrieb/wrote Larry Stone: On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at br...@bryanharrison.com wrote: I've built and installed Mailman 2.12 from current source code and have it running just fine under OS X Server 10.5.7, with on exception, which is not properly speaking a Mailman problem at all. If I start Mailman from the CLI, using /usr/share/mailman/bin/ mailmanctl -s start, all is well. If I allow launchd to start it ScaronI get an endless succession ofScaron Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master qrunner. Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 9 seconds Known issue, no idea why. I've been running Mailman on Client OS X since the Tiger days. As soon as I upgraded to Leopard, I started seeing this happen intermittently. I have a launchd plist almost identical to yours. It is intermittent for me. Probably happens about 1 in 3 boots. I try to remember to check that it's running after reboots. If not, I have a cron job that runs hourly to check for the proper number of qrunners and send me e-mail if any or all are missing. I have the same issue as Bryan (and my plist looks simular) and find this in my logs, when I start mailman via launchd, if I start it by CLI, I don't see this issue: Jun 26 20:16:29 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40673]: The master qrunner lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another Jun 26 20:16:29 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40673]: master qrunner is already running. Jun 26 20:16:29 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 9 seconds Jun 26 20:16:41 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40675]: The master qrunner lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another Jun 26 20:16:41 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40675]: master qrunner is already running. Jun 26 20:16:41 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds Jun 26 20:16:52 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40680]: The master qrunner lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another Jun 26 20:16:52 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40680]: master qrunner is already running. Jun 26 20:16:52 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds Jun 26 20:17:02 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40757]: The master qrunner lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another Jun 26 20:17:02 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40757]: master qrunner is already running. Jun 26 20:17:03 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds Jun 26 20:17:13 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40760]: The master qrunner lock could not be acquired because it appears as if another Jun 26 20:17:13 myMac org.list.mailmanctl[40760]: master qrunner is already running. Jun 26 20:17:13 myMac com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 8 seconds This is not the same issue as Bryan and I have. The log entries you have posted indicate that you are trying to start Mailman twice (the issue Bryan and I have is Mailman dying with the stray process message). Perhaps you have two different launchd scripts that try to to start Mailman. Launchd looks in both /System/Library/LaunchDaemons and /Library/LaunchDaemons. The former is supposed to be for Apple provided scripts with the latter for user/3rd party application scripts. My mailman.plist is in /Library/LaunchDaemons but you should check both and grep for mailmanctl. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd
On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at br...@bryanharrison.com wrote: If I allow launchd to start it ScaronI get an endless succession ofScaron Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master qrunner. Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 9 seconds I just caught that Bryan notes that he receives an endless succession of those messages where as I see one and that's it. Comparing our launchd .plist files, I see a few differences: Bryan: keyOnDemand/key false/ Me: keyOnDemand/key true/ keyRunAtLoad/key true/ Bryan does not have RunAtLoad but the default is false. I think this is why he sees the endless succession and I don't. Wiht RunAtLoad but OnDemand set true, my system tries once at startup and that's it. Bryan, due to OnDemand being false (meaning keep it running continuously), keeps trying. Another difference (but I think making no difference is: Bryan: keyProgram/key string/usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl/string keyProgramArguments/key array stringmailmanctl/string string-s/string stringstart/string /array Me: keyProgramArguments/key array string/Applications/Mailman/bin/mailmanctl/string string-s/string stringstart/string /array I don't have a Program key. I don't think this is relevant as I specify the full path in ProgramArguments which Bryan does not need to do since he specified the path in Program. The reason this happens is that launchd expects the processes it launches to stick around. They must not daemonize. But mailmanctl terminates after it has started the runners. I assume that Apple modified their own distribution of Mailman so that mailmanctl behaves differently. I'd suggest comparing the two. I'm not so sure. It worked fine for me under Tiger (client). Drew reports the same thing with OS X Server - worked fine under Tiger (10.4.x) and then the same problems as the rest of us with Leopard. Also, I can't say I agree that launchd expects the program to stick around. With it the way I have it set (RunAtLoad true and OnDemand true), it makes one attempt at startup and does not care after that whether it started or not. I'll note that I also have Clam-AV's daemon (clamd) starting the same way and it seems to work OK but some of the technical issues of launching daemon with launchd are beyond me. However, the launchd.plist(5) man page says: EXPECTATIONS Daemons or agents managed by launchd are expected to behave certain ways. A daemon or agent launched by launchd MUST NOT do the following in the process directly launched by launchd: o fork(2) and have the parent process exit(3) or _exit(2). o Call daemon(3) A daemon or agent launched by launchd SHOULD NOT do the following as a part of their startup initialization: Setup the user ID or group ID. o Setup the working directory. o chroot(2) o setsid(2) o Close stray file descriptors. o Change stdio(3) to /dev/null. o Setup resource limits with setrusage(2). o Setup priority with setpriority(2). o Ignore the SIGTERM signal. A daemon or agent launched by launchd SHOULD: o Launch on demand given criteria specified in the XML property list. More information can be found in launch(3). o Catch the SIGTERM signal. I'll leave it to those better into the technical end of things to interpret that relative to what mailmanctl does. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs OSX vs launchd
On 6/18/09 7:11 PM, Bryan Harrison at br...@bryanharrison.com wrote: I've built and installed Mailman 2.12 from current source code and have it running just fine under OS X Server 10.5.7, with on exception, which is not properly speaking a Mailman problem at all. If I start Mailman from the CLI, using /usr/share/mailman/bin/ mailmanctl -s start, all is well. If I allow launchd to start it I get an endless succession of Jun 18 16:50:26 org.list.mailmanctl[1697]: Starting Mailman's master qrunner. Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl[1697]): Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 1698 PPID 1 Python Jun 18 16:50:26 com.apple.launchd[1] (org.list.mailmanctl): Throttling respawn: Will start in 9 seconds Known issue, no idea why. I've been running Mailman on Client OS X since the Tiger days. As soon as I upgraded to Leopard, I started seeing this happen intermittently. I have a launchd plist almost identical to yours. It is intermittent for me. Probably happens about 1 in 3 boots. I try to remember to check that it's running after reboots. If not, I have a cron job that runs hourly to check for the proper number of qrunners and send me e-mail if any or all are missing. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] mail to non-existing list - Part two
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Jeff Bernier wrote: I have tested this by just making up names on-the-fly like nolist, or xyzlist, and get this result every time. Sounds like you have a catchall address pointing to the Mailman list address. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] MMDSR Question
On 2/15/09 1:43 AM, Brad Knowles at b...@shub-internet.org wrote: I never tried to run the script on a MacOS X machine. On the Linux and FreeBSD machines where I run it (including the server for python.org, where this list is hosted), I don't see these kinds of problems. I have MMDSR running on Mac OS X but as I recall, I made a lot of changes to it to both make it work and have it do what I wanted it to do. There were definitely some syntax changes and, I think, some binary file location differences to be to be accommodated. -- Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce handling is not user-friendly.
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, David Ingamells wrote: Please act on the following 2 points below as enhancements to MailMan. These arise from my membership of the bazaar mailing list. I am getting Your membership in the mailing list bazaar has been disabled due to excessive bounces messages regularly (every week) now. Curiously, up to the time of the excessive bounce message I don't miss any emails that failed to arrive from the mailing list. I have spoken to our sysadmin and he knows nothing about any bounces from our mail server. It is very annoying as I don't know what I can do about it with the information available to me. Furthermore I miss messages to the mailing list between the time that the membership is disabled until the time I can act upon the message. It also happened while I was on holiday and my membership almost got deleted. 1) Can you adapt mailman to support first sending a warning and allow the member a little time (e.g. a day) to react before the heavy-handed action of disabling the membership? Mailman is customizable in that area (per list). By default, mailman will need to see bounces on a certain number of days within a certain longer period before it disables the account. For instance, if mailman is configured to disable on five bounces (counting a maximum of one per day) within 14 days, it will continue to send until the fifth day with a bounce. After 14 days go by without a bounce, the data is considered stale and you start over with zero bounces. It's possible the list admin set it to disable you after just one bounce. There are situations where this might be the desired behavior but those are generally pretty few and far between. Once the membership is disabled, the disabled reminders are sent out weekly for a user-configurable number of weeks after which the recipient is unsubscribed. Sending a warning makes no sense since if mail is bouncing, usually all mail to that user is bouncing and it the warning will bounce too. 2) Can you you adapt mailman to send an example of (at least the header of) a bounced email with the message? Without this information I don't know how I can stop them as I don't know what, who or where the bounce is happening. That information is sent to the list owner. For my lists, almost always it's because the user abandoned the address and it went away. Your situation sounds like there is some issue between the list server and you that is causing an occassional message to be rejected with a permanent error. You said you're not missing any messages right up until the you are disabled message but how do you know for sure. The best thing would be to write to the list owner and ask him to forward the disabled message he receives (by default) the next time it happens. What could be causing the bounces is really not a Mailman issue but off the top of my head, possibilities are: 1) a misconfigured mail server that is rejecting mail with a permanent error for what is a transient error 2) mail being bounced by a spam filter 3) Auto-replies from your mail program back to the sender I'm sure there are others. How well they'll be recognized by the mailman bounce processor partially depends on certain list configuration options. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
On 8/13/08 1:07 AM, Brad Knowles at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, either way, we're screwed. AOL is determined to delete any and all data that would actually be useful to us in our jobs, and they are determined to file all these reports automatically. So do what I do -- file them automatically, in a folder that you never go look in. Why even receive them at that point? They're little more than spam themselves so maybe it's time to ban all mail from AOL as AOL will then be a known spammer. :-( -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] changes at aol
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008, Christopher X. Candreva wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote: I'm confused. How do you use the Message-ID for this? Even when messages are fully personalized, every recipient's message has the Message-ID of the original, incoming message. It may depend on how your MTA is set up. On my lists, there is an internal Received: line where the mailman machine hands off the message to itself. That message ID allows me to lookup the recipient despite AOL's obfuscation. Here's an example from a test list, luckly someone just tested it: (Mycroft is the border mail machine, Friday is the web/mailman server) If I had a complaint I would look up message ID m7DF2jJX008532 on host Friday. Received: from friday.westnet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by friday.westnet.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7DF2jJX008532 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:02:45 -0400 (EDT) That's not a Message ID, that's a queue ID. And yes, I do the same thing. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade questions - Best method suggestions requested
On 7/16/08 12:57 AM, Brad Knowles at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/15/08, Drew Tenenholz wrote: 1) Are there any significant changes to the FAQ for Apple upgrade I should know about? The Apple-related portion of the documentation has been contributed by other members of the community, so if you haven't seen any updates there, it is *NOT* safe to assume that the instructions are still valid. You could always try them and report back your experiences, and maybe hope that someone will be able to update the documentation to reflect that. As the author of the document referenced in the FAQ on installing Mailman on client Mac OS X, there are some significant changes for Leopard. I posted an update on 10/29/07 titled Mac OS X Leopard upgrade experience which should be findable in the archives. I do have one ongoing problem which is the Mailman startup, when started as part of system boot, fails about 2/3 of the time with the stray process message mentioned in the note referenced above. My solution to it is a cron job that runs hourly to alert me to missing qrunners (which obviously is useful for other mailman problems as well) and manually starting it when necessary. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request: Selective Mass Subscription
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008, Brad Knowles wrote: Michael Welch wrote: That said, my own need calls for the ability to do just that. And I've used it myself on numerous occasions. This is why I haven't made too much noise about stripping this function, or even turning it off by default. I trust myself to use it, and I'm willing to trust most of my users on certain systems, but I don't trust anyone else. Since I want to keep the feature for myself, I can't argue too loudly to remove it for everyone else. Brad, I'm glad you added that. But it raises an interesting topic of discussion which is why is e-mail held to a different standard than other means of communication. I know I've mentioned this before but as a side job, I assign soccer referees to soccer games. I need to periodically make announcements to them about upcoming games, etc. These officials are independent contractors - they are not employees. I use Mailman to handle mailings because I can e-mail to them 1) with it addressed to them personally (using Full Personaliztion) and 2) without revealing the addresses of other referees, all without having to BCC: them. Now have any of them given permission to be added to a mailing list? Nope, not one of them. Actually, most people don't even know it goes through a mailing list processor. But they have voluntarily provided their e-mail addresses to me when requesting games. When someone applies for games, I use mass subscribe to add them. I think it's reasonable to conclude that by applying, they have an expectation that I'll use the address they've provided to send them e-mail related to the games they've requested. Just as I'll use the phone numbers they've provided to call them and the snail mail address potentially to send them snail mail. Nobody asks for confirmed opt-in for snail mail mailings or phone calls. So why is e-mail held to a different standard? Note that this is my own server on its own address so I have no worries about customers abusing it. But note also that the way I use Mailman for these lists to my referees is very much outside the traditional mailing list model. And by the way, I also do run a few traditional lists and they are very much confirmed opt-in. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source
On 5/29/08 11:37 PM, Jim Popovitch at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:18 AM, David Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm. I must be missing something, as the system is still associating each Message-ID with all 250 list subscribers. VERP has nothing to do with Message-ID, and everything to do with Return-Path and Sender: ;-) With VERP and personalization, the Return-Path, instead of being [EMAIL PROTECTED] becomes [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I think you said you're using Postfix in which case you need recipient_delimiter = + in your main.cf so it knows about the plus signs in the return paths. When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't touch the Return-Path. As you have observed, the original message-ID is still preserved. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source
On Fri, 30 May 2008, David Newman wrote: When you then get the AOL TOS e-mail, you can figure out who the list recipient was as while AOL redacts the AOL recipient, they don't touch the Return-Path. I wish this were true, but it appears AOL gets to the Return-Path too: Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hmmm. I had one as recently as 5/15 and Return-Path was not touched nor some of the other places the address appears. It is frustrating that AOL wants to stop the unwanted e-mail but tries to make it difficult to figure out who is complaining. Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:02:11 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Client TOS Notification Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from rly-yc03.mail.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.205.146]) by air-yc04.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINYC44-1c4478a76c82e5; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:38:43 -0500 Received: from albion.stonejongleux.com (albion.stonejongleux.com [66.92.131.28]) by rly-yc03.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC32-1c4478a76c82e5; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:38:33 -0500 Received: from albion.stonejongleux.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albion.stonejongleux.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DAC2A5C24F for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:38:32 -0600 (CST) X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from [192.168.1.72] (unknown [192.168.1.72]) by albion.stonejongleux.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2312A5C1F1 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:38:27 -0600 (CST) ... Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-AOL-IP: 66.92.131.28 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : + X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) So neither Return-ID nor Message-ID identifies who's complaining. But...this might be something. The next message header contains an ESMTP ID that corresponds with exactly one AOL user in maillog: Received: from rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (rly-mh07.mail.aol.com [172.21.166.143]) by air-mh02.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMH024-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:45 -0400 Received: from mail.somedomain.com (mail.somedomain.com [666.666.666.666]) by rly-mh07.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMH074-be4483f8d3acf; Fri, 30 May 2008 01:14:35 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.somedomain.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55685B31C0 for redacted; Thu, 29 May 2008 22:14:34 - (UTC) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:log# grep -i B55685B31C0 /var/log/maillog May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/smtpd[25785]: B55685B31C0: client=localhost[127.0.0.1] May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/cleanup[21262]: B55685B31C0: message-id=[EMAIL PROTECTED] May 29 22:14:34 mail postfix/qmgr[23040]: B55685B31C0: from=[EMAIL PROTECTED], size=13344, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Given the above, is [EMAIL PROTECTED] the subscriber that's complaining? Or is it just a coincidence that that AOL user got listed first? I think so. With personalization on, Mailman is generating a separate e-mail for each user which passes through Postfix as separate messages with a unique ID in Postfix. Without personalization, Mailman could pass as few as one message to the MTA and let the MTA split it into all the destinations. With personalization, the message for each user comes to the MTA as a separate message. One of the tradeoffs of personalization is the increased workload for Mailman and the MTA. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords
On 5/29/08 6:23 AM, Charles Marcus at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/28/2008, Brad Knowles ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: From /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py: # Normally when a site administrator authenticates to a web page with the site # password, they get a cookie which authorizes them as the list admin. It # makes me nervous to hand out site auth cookies because if this cookie is # cracked or intercepted, the intruder will have access to every list on the # site. OTOH, it's dang handy to not have to re-authenticate to every list on # the site. Set this value to Yes to allow site admin cookies. ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = No Sorry, guess I should have looked a little closer... but thanks... I made the change and restarted mailman, and still have to log into each list, so I'm guessing this only applies to new lists? I'll have to run a command to make it apply to existing lists? Is your site password the same as the list admin passwords? My playing around with the feature says the site admin password must be different from the list admin password. Otherwise, it will be authenticated as the list password, not the site password, and you'll need to log into the other lists. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source
On Thu, 29 May 2008, David Newman wrote: Possibly this is some VERP config error on my part. I added the following to mm_cfg.py and rebooted: VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = Yes VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 You also need OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes Once you do that, the personalization option will appear on the appropriate admin page. You will probably need to restart httpd for it to appear. I doubt restarting the qrunners will be needed. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] sharing administrator passwords
On 5/28/08 5:22 AM, Charles Marcus at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/27/2008, Brad Knowles ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: The site admin password can be used to administer any list on the system. If you turn on the appropriate option in the mm_cfg.py file, you can even set it up so that you log into one list with the site admin password and you don't even have to provide a password to log into any of the other lists -- the cookie set by the first password login will be recognized by all the other lists. Wow, that would come in useful for me... what option is that? ALLOWS_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES. Set it to Yes in mm_cfg.py. From my empirical testing, the site admin password must be different than the list admin password (as a sole administrator for my system, I had them the same). If they're the same, it appears Mailman determines it to be the list password and never gets to the site password test and there never sets the site admin cookie. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] slightly OT: on not becoming a spam source
On 5/28/08 9:26 PM, David Newman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another is to enable VERP for your outgoing messages, this allows you to track the message ID to the individual user. That sounds very promising, thanks. Trying it now... I have all my lists VERPed for just that reason. Once I figure out who it is, they get unsubscribed with extreme prejudice (meaning they also get banned from the mail server). But you should be aware that will increase your outgoing mail load. Nothing I do is high enough frequency for that to be an issue but it can be for some people. Most of my lists are announcement lists. In fact, for some of them, the recipients aren't even aware it's a mailing list. I (as a side job) assign soccer referees for local leagues. Rather than sending out announcements to my referees with a long BCC: list, I add them to a private mailman list with VERP so they receive them with them as the To: recipient. That also lets me know who to remove when they decide that the easiest way to let me know that they're no longer interested in being notified of available games is to do a report as spam. :-( -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounces and disk quota exceeded
On 4/9/08 3:20 AM, Jo�ao Sá Marta at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding to the bounce feature: where can I get more detailed information, sepecifically /Your Membership Is Disabled/ warnings If a member as disk quota exceeded, how can he receive those warnings ? 1) The warning messages are sent periodically (weekly) for some period before the member is completely removed. It is likely that at some period that time, the member will delete some stuff and be back under quota. 2) The warning might be small enough to be received (keep the user under quota) even though the list message(s) were big enough to put him over quota (e.g. member has 10,000 bytes available; 100,000 byte list message is rejected but 1,000 byte you are disabled message is accepted). -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing mm_cfg.py for existing lists
On 4/8/08 5:20 AM, Jussi Hirvi at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, This problem is now solved, I think... Mark Sapiro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) kirjoitteli (7.4.2008 17:55): SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is a setting that affects all SMTP delivery. It is not a list setting. Setting it in mm_cfg.py and restarting Mailman is all that is required. Ok, that's good to know for sure! Why do you think it isn't effective? After restarting Mailman I still got Too many recipients errors in the Sendmail log (maillog). Now I checked again, and there are still Too many recipients errors, but when I check later entries, I find out that the Hotmail emails have finally been sent. The way you phrased that makes it sound like outgoing messages were merely being deferred for the too many recipients error and not bounced. If that's true, I hope you realize that changing the setting in Mailman only affects messages given to sendmail after you made the change. Anything already in sendmail's outgoing queue from before you made the change is not affected by the change as Mailman is no further involvement with the message at that point. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Ongoing delivery issues - First Yahoo, now AOL
On 3/9/08 10:34 AM, Paul at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you considered hosting yourself? Some ISP's actually do let customers run servers and have fixed IP address. Speakeasy.net is one of them. I've been using them for 7 years now, and consider them the best of the best. I'm with Speakeasy as well and completely agree with both the idea of doing it yourself (as I do on a Macintosh) and using Speakeasy. Besides just the fact that they have a servers permitted policy, they also have clueful technical support who will actually believe you when you say you've toubleshot your end and you're sure it's their problem (which is a rare in any event). On the rare occasions I need to call, the person who answers is almost always able to discuss the issue in real technical terms and deal with problem without having to refer it to level 2 or level 3 support. I also had no problem having them change the reverse DNS on my address to my domain name, something that makes spam detection software happier. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
On 2/20/08 6:06 AM, Rick Harris at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for the response. I have spent time testing individual mail to the same addresses from the same source and I am successful. What I failed to note in my posting is that this occurs when the mail is going to multiple addresses as in a normal post. If I go into my list and turn everyone off except for my Yahoo address, it will work EVERY time. Then I go back in and turn all of the addresses back on and the Yahoo addresses get deferred including mine. I'm not blaming Mailman...I'm just asking if there is something about Mailman that I can change that will overcome this. Changing anything about Yahoo would be like changing heaven and earth. Surely, someone else is experiencing this issue. Turn on VERP or full personalization. That will force mailman to generate a separate message for each recipient and Yahoo will see several messages each addresses to one recipient rather than one message addressed to multiple recipients. Unfortunately, when a recipient chooses to use a free e-mail service, they get what they're paying for. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] bots subscribing to lists via web forms to avoidmember-only restrictions
On 1/6/08 7:01 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (3) On the other hand, hard to read captchas are exactly that: hard to read. For humans, too. So introducing captchas the score is Spammers 2, Humans 0. Yes indeed. One that takes me two to three tries to match is annoying. I even found one I couldn't get right after half a dozen tries. I gave up. Their loss. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions being disabled
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, Robert Boyd Skipper wrote: Ok. Here is another problem. Today, I found that the subscriptions of twenty or so members have been disabled for excessive bounces. The message accompanying each disabled subscription is: :fail: Domain skipperweb.org has exceeded the max emails per hour. Message discarded. Now, this is odd, because there seems to have been only one message sent out for the whole day. The message seems pretty self-explanatory to me. It sounds like your provider limits you to a certain number of outgoing messages per hour and you've exceeded it. Depending on how you have mailman configured and how your your provider counts e-mails (by message or by recipient), one e-mail to the list will generate one or more outgoing messages. If you have VERP or full personalization turned on, then each message to the list will generate one outgoing message for each recipient. For example, with VERP on, if you have 120 members, then you generate 120 outgoing messages. If the limit is 100 per hour, then at least 20 of them will bounce (the exact number will depend on how many other outgoing messages you've sent that hour for other reasons, e.g., you message to this list). I did not receive any previous bounce notifications from these addresses, so if they are bouncing something with my listname on it, it isn't coming back to me in any way that I can find it. ... I have bounce processing turned on. The bounce_score_threshold is set for 5.0. With bounce processing turned on, you don't get notified until the bounce threshold is exceeded. Until then, the bounces get logged in the Mailman bounce log but that's it. So all of them have bounced five times before you were notified. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Making sure MailMan is running...
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Jason Pruim wrote:
I have looked around on the web and haven't found any info that I
understand about making sure that mailman is receiving and sending e-
mail that is sent into it. I just had a situation where on my site
(With real low volume lists) that it was not sending mail since the 11
of december...
Would it be best to watch for the qrunner process and make sure that's
running? Or is there a better way? I'm planning on writing this into a
Widget (For all you Macintosh people out there) if I can find a good
way to make sure this is up and running.
Is this for Mac OS X? It's not clear although you made the reference to
Macintoshes above.
I don't know anything about writing OS X widgets but as I've had an issue
with Mailman not starting reliably under Leopard, I set up a cron job to
run hourly and let me know if all the qrunners aren't there. It's pretty
simple:
#!/bin/sh
QRUNNERS=`ps -efw | grep -v grep | grep -c Python | awk '{ print $1 }'`
if [ $QRUNNERS != 9 ] ; then
{
echo Mailman qrunner problem | /usr/sbin/sendmail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
}
fi
Note that despite the sendmail command used there, that's really Postfix
as Postfix used the command sendmail (for Sendmail compatibility) as a
means of injecting mail. Note also that as written, the mail message will
be missing all RFC required headers but as it's going to myself, I don't
care. You could, of course, do something else there to provide
notification.
-- Larry Stone
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Shameless plug
On 11/19/07 3:26 PM, Barry Warsaw at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, you need to register with the site in order to vote. Sorry Barry, but I tried to register three times but never could match their visual identification part of the registration. It's harder to read than Ticketmaster's which I actually didn't think was possible. :-( In their attempt to make it unreadable by machines, they've succeeded in making it unreadable by humans. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Python 2.5.1
On 11/12/07 6:12 PM, Matt Zimmerman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Mailman 2.1.9 compatible with Python 2.5.1? The reason I ask is because I am having trouble configuring Mailman on a Solaris 10 sparc server. MM 2.1.9 with Python 2.5.1 is working fine for me on Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard). -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mac OS X Leopard upgrade experience
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007, Larry Stone wrote: 5) Startup is intermittently(?) failing due to what seems to be a Leopard, not mailman, issue. I'm not at all sure what that Stray process message means and have not turned up anything useful in a web search. Oct 29 07:36:46 Leoptest mailman[56]: Starting Mailman's master qrunner. Oct 29 07:36:46 Leoptest com.apple.launchd[1] (mailman[56]): Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 83 PPID 1 Python Nothing appears in the mailman logs but unless I'm mistaken, the Starting Mailman's ... message comes from mailmanctl so mailmanctl is launching but then dying with that Stray process error. The Leopard provided version of Python 2.5.1 and I have mailman 2.1.9. Update: this was perhaps a result of a mistake I made it creating the clone. I failed to notice that the clone volume had OS X's Ignore ownership on this volume attribute set meaning I ended up as the owner of every file on it. I re-cloned last night and went through the entire process again and once finished, have rebooted twice without encountering this stray process message. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Mac OS X Leopard upgrade experience
Wasting no time, I experiemented over the weekend with upgrading a clone of my test server (Power PC) from Mac OS X Tiger (10.4.x) to Leopard (10.5). It was not as smooth as could be and a number of configuration changes were needed and I still have a startup problem. However, once I work around the startup issue (#5 below), it all seems to be working. 1) Apple has changed all the application specific user IDs from ZZZ to _ZZZ (e.g. mailman becomes _mailman). This requires changes to Postfix (not a Mailman topic per se) and requires Mailman to be reconfigured and remade. 2) Xinetd is gone. If mailman or anything else was still being started via xinetd, it needs to be changed to start with launchd (launchd was introduced with Tiger). 3) Apache is now Apache2. The configuration file is /etc/apache2/httpd.conf rather than /etc/httpd/httpd.conf. Customizations in /etc/httpd/httpd/conf are not migrated. In addition, tighter directory security in Apache2 requires additional customizations to allow access to the Mailman directories (sorry, I don't have them handy to include in this note) 4) System shutdown does not seem to shutdown mailman cleanly anymore requiring a 'mailmanctl -s start' to get mailman going. I've changed my launchd startup file to add the -s. That obviously adds some risk but at least for my environment, it's minimal. 5) Startup is intermittently(?) failing due to what seems to be a Leopard, not mailman, issue. I'm not at all sure what that Stray process message means and have not turned up anything useful in a web search. Oct 29 07:36:46 Leoptest mailman[56]: Starting Mailman's master qrunner. Oct 29 07:36:46 Leoptest com.apple.launchd[1] (mailman[56]): Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 83 PPID 1 Python Nothing appears in the mailman logs but unless I'm mistaken, the Starting Mailman's ... message comes from mailmanctl so mailmanctl is launching but then dying with that Stray process error. The Leopard provided version of Python 2.5.1 and I have mailman 2.1.9. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for each list?
On 8/29/07 2:52 AM, wittygal at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have my account hosted on bluehost. I have 5 new email lists that have been transferred to me from other mailman lists on a closing isp. The problem is there are delays from when a message is receive until it is sent out. Blue host support tells me that mailman only supports up to 150 subscribers per list. Is this true? No. There are people running mailman with thousands of people on a list. I think there is some information on this in FAQ. What other reason could there be for such a problem. They tell me that phplist doesn't have the problems mailman does. Other reasons? Misconfiguration by them; resource limits they've applied. Who knows other than them. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Dragon wrote: Lots of us have done just that. I run my lists on a server owned by a friend and have pretty much free reign to do whatever I want. If you can justify the costs of doing so, it is a good solution. For people like me who do this both as a hobby and for a non-profit organization, the trick is finding a place to host that server that won't cost an arm and a leg. Other than my time of installing it and configuring it, I have no costs. I run it on my iMac that sits at home. My DSL provider has no problems with servers. Volume is low enough that my 384Kbps upstream is adequate. Until a few months ago, that iMac was also my main desktop machine. While it's now a dedicated server, there's nothing about Mailman and whatever MTA you use that requires them to be on a dedicated server - they'll be quite happy to chug along in the background. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL's Client TOS Notification
On 7/14/07 9:38 AM, Rick Pasotto at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have recently been getting some of these from one of my mailing lists. There is nothing in it (that I've been able to see) that would tell me who the user is that is rejecting the email. There are several AOL addresses subscribed but only one rejection each time a mailing goes out. 1) Have I overlooked something that would identify the user? Unfortunately, AOL, for privacy reasons, does not tell you who flagged it as SPAM. Which of course makes it completely useless for identifying who to remove from a mailing list. As Ralf indicated, VERP your mail. Yes it increases your outgoing load but at least you know who is doing it. My policy is, given these are recipient requested and confirmed subscriptions, first time, removal from the list and immediate mail server ban for mail from their address. If they try sending something to me, they'll get an SMTP reject that directs them to an information web page. After one year, they can request reinstatement (by sending to my Postmaster address which bypasses the ban) but no such AOLoser has ever done so. Second time, permanent and irrevocable mail server ban. All these lists have Attention AOL users: You have voluntarily subscribed to this list. If you report this message as spam, you will be unsubscribed and banned from this server in the footer (right below the unsubscribe information). 2) Why would AOL send such a useless email? Because it's AOL? :-) -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL's Client TOS Notification
On 7/14/07 12:42 PM, Zbigniew Szalbot at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, As Larry Stone mentioned, just put something in the headers and footers of every message, which tells AOL users that they will have their entire domain permanently banned from the list, if you get too many spam complaints. Then carry through on that threat when it happens. Simple. Simple - yes. Effective? Depends on what you are after. By doing it this way you are not really different from AOL, are you? You punish many users just because some other are thoughtless and lazy. When I offer something, I want people to use it, not ban it. Brad misunderstood or misstated what I do. I don't ban the domain (aol.com), I ban the user ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). I know this next gets a little away from Mailman and I can't say for other MTAs but it's simple to do in Postfix: In main.cf: smtpd_recipient_restrictions= ... check_sender_access hash:/etc/postfix/sender_checks, ... In sender_checks: # This file has to be compiled with postmap - # $ postmap hash:sender_checks # Sender is SMTP FROM argument # [EMAIL PROTECTED] banned for AOL TOS notice - 10/20/05 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 554 You have previously reported requested mail from here as SPAM - you are banned from this server (see http://www.stonejongleux.com/spamban.html - 10/20/05) (note that the above needs to be one line in the actual sender_checks file) -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL's Client TOS Notification
On 7/14/07 3:53 PM, Dave Dewey at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Ralf Hildebrandt ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): * Rick Pasotto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have recently been getting some of these from one of my mailing lists. Welcome to the wonderful world of AOL retards. There is nothing in it (that I've been able to see) that would tell me who the user is that is rejecting the email. There are several AOL addresses subscribed but only one rejection each time a mailing goes out. Do you use VERP to send out the mails? If you do that you can see who the culprit is. VERP doesn't work any longer for these, as of a couple months ago. They now redact ALL information that can be used to identify the user, including verp'd addresses. That's unfortunate. At this point, what's the point of getting them if they won't give you any useful information as to who doesn't want the list mail they requested. But it's always been clear that AOL assumes everyone outside is a spammer. They probably can't get their minds around the idea that some of their own customers subscribe to lists and then mark them as spam when they no longer want them rather than properly unsubscribing. And that we, as responsible list owners, want to get them off our lists. I know some will disagree but if it comes to it, then I just make it clear that I don't accept AOL users as subscribers. If they want to subscribe, they will have to do so from a real ISP. Messageid still works, for whatever reason it's the one piece of header info that isn't redacted at this point. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL's Client TOS Notification
On 7/14/07 8:26 PM, Brad Knowles at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/14/07, Larry Stone wrote: # [EMAIL PROTECTED] banned for AOL TOS notice - 10/20/05 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 554 You have previously reported requested mail from here as SPAM - you are banned from this server (see http://www.stonejongleux.com/spamban.html - 10/20/05) That's cool too, but is not scalable -- larger lists simply can't afford to put in that kind of separately work maintaining the list of users who are rejected for reasons like this. No disagreement there, Brad. I've only had four or five over the last couple of years. That's why I said at a certain point, you just say no to AOL subscribers. -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
