Re: [MlMt] messages expecting reply

[Randall Gellens]

On 30 Apr 2024, at 4:42, aisrael wrote:

I would like to include in a mailbox the messages which are waiting 
for an answer (this is easy : I just tag them, and create a smart 
mailbox that contains these tagged emails (but there may be other 
ways), but more complicated : I would like to remove them from this 
smart mailbox (for example by untagging them) when they receive an 
answer. I am pretty sure this problem has been treated in the past in 
this forum, but I can’t seem to find the right conversation.



What you want is a rule that:

 1. Detects that an incoming message is a part of a thread.
 2. That the previous message (or perhaps a previous message) in the 
thread is tagged with "awaiting-reply" (or whatever).

3. Removed the tag from the tagged message.

Or, alternately, a rule on the virtual mailbox that contains the tagged 
messages that removes the tag when a reply is received:


1. Message contains the tag.
2. Thread of the message has a later message.
3. Action: remove the tag.

I don't know you would do this. My experience with rules is that they 
act on a message based on criteria of the message (as opposed to 
checking a different message).


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Attachments when "send as new message

[Randall Gellens]

On 14 Feb 2024, at 14:42, Rob Russell via mailmate wrote:


Hi listers,

Quick one, is there a hidden setting somewhere in Mailmate that will 
allow 'Send as new message' to include attachments that were on the 
original message?


I often paste screen snippets from the clipboard to messages, which 
mailmate adds as an attachment with a markdown style reference to that 
image (yay), but if I choose to send that message as a new message, 
the attachments are missing, though the markdown links remain.


Or is there some technical reason why this is not possible.


Non-inline attachments, that is, those added by dragging an existing 
file into the attachments area of the composition window, or clicking 
the "+" in the attachments area of the composition window are preserved 
with "send as new message."


One work-around would be save the screenshot as a file, add that file as 
a non-inline attachment.


Something you can try (I haven't tried it so can't say if it works) is 
to save the screenshot as a file, then drag the file into the body of 
the message, where you'd paste a screenshot. MM might treat files 
differently from pasted images, regardless if inline or not.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] adding a mailbox

[Randall Gellens]

On 18 Jan 2024, at 10:28, Randy Bush wrote:


In release 6015 on MBP in Sonoma 14.2.1, all that’s needed:
1. Select your Source account in the left hand search bar.
2. Click (Menu>Mailbox>New IMAP Mailbox, “”), in the IMAP
   Source
   account where you’re creating a sub-mailbox.
3. Name the Untitled Mailbox. It’ll jump to there alpha-ordered
   position.


i right click the account in the sources window, otherwise the same.

but following your recipe exactly
  - does not jump into alpha sort
  - and if i quit mailmate and restart, it is not visible.  i have
to Edit Subscriptions and check it and commit
  - it has always been this way for me

14.2.1 and MM Version 1.14 (6010)


I have seen renamed mailboxes auto-sort, but not in many years. I 
have

had to manually move them for quite some time.


a.  those were the days :)


In my experience, I only need to subscribe with a few accounts. I
assume it depends on the IMAP server.


dovecot on deb11, also orifice360.


Most of my accounts are on my own EIMS server, with no such issues. It's 
my non-EIMS accounts that I have to subscribe to.



--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] adding a mailbox

[Randall Gellens]

On 17 Jan 2024, at 10:46, Randy Bush wrote:


henry,


In release 6015 on MBP in Sonoma 14.2.1, all that’s needed:
1. Select your Source account in the left hand search bar.
2. Click (Menu>Mailbox>New IMAP Mailbox, “”), in the IMAP 
Source

   account where you’re creating a sub-mailbox.
3. Name the Untitled Mailbox. It’ll jump to there alpha-ordered
   position.


i right click the account in the sources window, otherwise the same.

but following your recipe exactly
  - does not jump into alpha sort
  - and if i quit mailmate and restart, it is not visible.  i have
to Edit Subscriptions and check it and commit
  - it has always been this way for me

14.2.1 and MM Version 1.14 (6010)


I have seen renamed mailboxes auto-sort, but not in many years. I have 
had to manually move them for quite some time.


In my experience, I only need to subscribe with a few accounts. I assume 
it depends on the IMAP server.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Blocked images

[Randall Gellens]

On 4 Dec 2023, at 7:13, William Allen wrote:

I appreciate the fact that MM blocks the images embedded in emails 
since that is obviously a privacy concern. I also appreciate the fact 
that I can click on an image from a trusted correspondent to see it. 
My issue is that in newsletters that I get from certain trusted 
sources I can’t see the images at all. This isn’t true of all, so 
it isn’t that they’re all blocked but some are that I’d like to 
have access to. Any ideas?


Regards,
Bill


You can of course click "Download" or "Download All." I have a key bound 
to the command to fetch a specific image.


In the file Library/Application 
Support/MailMate/Resources/KeyBindings/.plist, I have:


l = "loadFocusedImage:";

Then I can hover over an image, and if I'm Ok with the URL, press 'l'.

--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] MailMate deleting wrong message

[Randall Gellens]

On 22 Nov 2023, at 4:27, Michael Nietzold wrote:

Is I am on Version 1.14 (5939) - is it safe just to download the .tbz 
and overwrite the MM app?


What I do is download and unpack the test/experimental version and then 
rename it to add the build number before the ".app", and then copy into 
/Applications. That makes it easy to see which version I'm running, and 
switch back (because the old version is still there).


For example, here's what MailMate's dock icon looks like on my system:


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] 3 333 333 messages

[Randall Gellens]

On 15 Aug 2023, at 13:17, Patrik Fältström via mailmate wrote:

> Just had to sit and wait for the right moment to make this screen dump...
>
> I like this product!
>
> Thanks Benny!
>
> Patrik
> ___
> mailmate mailing list
> mailmate@lists.freron.com
> https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Cool!

--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Delayed Send

[Randall Gellens]

On 8 May 2023, at 17:12, Malcolm Fitzgerald wrote:


I've just been reading the docs about delayed send.

From what I can see, the intention is to have a default delay that 
allows us to interrupt the delivery of mail within a short timeframe. 
Very good. And a control click on the menubar allows the option to 
"Send Now" regardless of the default settings. Also good.


It is a shame that this is a hidden setting. Many email are sent in 
haste. Having the ability to easily find a suitable balance between 
speed and caution would be great. Especially as SEND NOW is an 
optional override.


I think there is a lot of value in this feature and I'd like to see it 
upgraded to a preference dialog item.


I wasn't aware that MM had this option. Back in the Mac Eudora days, it 
had an option to make the default behavior "send now" or "queue" (and 
would change what the button said depending). Queue added the message to 
the outbound queue, which was sent at the next scheduled mail check. In 
my case, this was every 15 minutes, so I usually had 5-15 minutes after 
queuing a message to rethink it. Probably every couple of weeks there 
was a message where I realized after clicking "queue" that I wanted to 
reword something, or that I'd written something incorrect.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Running MailMate simultaneously in two locations

[Randall Gellens]

On 26 Apr 2023, at 7:52, Glenn Parker wrote:


On 25 Apr 2023, at 3:10, Randall Gellens wrote:
Having one client execute rules is a well-known way of using IMAP. In 
the old days when IMAP was first being designed, this was called an 
active client (the client is always on and actively moving/deleting 
messages).


Yes, I could designate one computer as the master, but that would mean 
never letting it “sleep” at all. I would rather not do that since 
these two computers may go days (or weeks) without being used for 
anything else. I am usually carefully to manage my instances in such 
circumstances, but I have also set up remote access so that I can 
tunnel in and quit MailMate if/when I forget.


Server-side rules might be an option, but I’m really not motivated 
to set it up on the Comcast/Xfinity platform.


It won't work to have two active clients, because messages will 
vanish and appear while a client is trying to operate on them.


IMHO, it’s not the end of the world to have a message disappear 
during a move operation, especially when it’s due to some other 
instance of MailMate that is already performing the intended move 
operation. And while server problems that could cause a message to 
disappear are not impossible, they are *vanishingly* unlikely.


I’m definitely not looking for some kind of out-of-band coordination 
here, just a more forgiving response to certain types of errors. I 
regard quietly taking a folder offline as a rather severe response. 
One simple option would be to back off and wait a minute before 
retrying. A more sophisticated option would be to check if the 
intended message move was already accomplished before complaining.


I can see the benefit of having MailMate react to errors in a 
smarter/more nuanced way. You can suggest it, and if Benny agrees he may 
add it to his list of features to implement. In the meantime, the 
easiest and quickest for you to deploy will be leaving a laptop or even 
a VM with MM running 7/24 to be the active client.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Running MailMate simultaneously in two locations

[Randall Gellens]

On 24 Apr 2023, at 11:32, Glenn Parker wrote:

I use MailMate on two computers in two physically separate locations. 
Each instance of MailMate uses a similar set of rules on my primary 
INBOX to relocate certain incoming email into dedicated folders. For 
example, the messages from this MailMate forum are directed into a 
MailMate folder. I realize there are other ways to manage this kind of 
thing in MailMate (isolating messages from email lists), but use a 
less sophisticated email client on my Android devices (AquaMail), and 
this style yields a fairly comfortable workflow for me across all my 
devices.


Having one client execute rules is a well-known way of using IMAP. In 
the old days when IMAP was first being designed, this was called an 
active client (the client is always on and actively moving/deleting 
messages).


I have found that I must be careful to avoid running my two MailMate 
instances at the same time. Otherwise they seem to get into a fight 
over who is going to execute the INBOX rules. When this happens, it 
typically generates a bunch of seemingly dire error messages from 
MailMate, and eventually causes MailMate to take one or more folders 
off-line.


It won't work to have two active clients, because messages will vanish 
and appear while a client is trying to operate on them. (Unless you 
create some sort of out-of-band mechanism for the clients to coordinate, 
but nothing like that exists now.)


There are some newer IMAP extensions that can help with this, but server 
support is uneven, and I haven't looked into if MailMate supports them, 
and at best they provide some more information about messages and 
mailboxes.


The way to do what you want is to either have one active client that is 
always running, and it is the only client that executes your rules, or, 
use server-side filtering. Some IMAP servers support Sieve, a mail 
filtering syntax. You edit your Sieve rules and the server executes 
them, typically during message delivery, so the rules are executed and 
messages are moved or deleted or replied to or whatever before any of 
your clients sees the message. If your server supports Sieve or another 
server-side filtering solution, that would be safer and more reliable.


My points here are two-fold. First, if you try the same thing, don’t 
be too surprised if you run into some complications. So far, this has 
not resulted in any loss of email for me, but having a folder quietly 
go off-line while you’re not looking can be confusing.


Second, I’d like to ask if MailMate could be more forgiving when it 
runs into this particular situation. That is to say, when moving 
messages between folders using automatic rules, if a message 
“disappears” during the operation, allow this to be treated as a 
soft error that can generate an (optional) warning, but don’t take 
any folders off-line.


The issue is that MailMate doesn't know why a message vanished during a 
move or why the server is reporting an error. It could represent some 
more serious problem.



--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] note or subject modification

[Randall Gellens]

On 5 Feb 2023, at 18:36, Randy Bush wrote:

the thing i miss most from VM is being able to edit a received 
message.

you could edit anything, headers, body, ...  but i think VM kinda died
some years ago.

randy


I don't know if that's what I miss most about Eudora, but it was 
something I used a lot and found very helpful.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] note or subject modification

[Randall Gellens]

On 5 Feb 2023, at 14:01, Malcolm Fitzgerald wrote:


On 6 Feb 2023, at 9:36, John Cooper wrote:

John Doherty via mailmate wrote (at 12:27 PM on Sunday, February 5, 
2023):


On Sun 2023-02-05 12:42 PM MST -0700,  
wrote:


I have one long-term and pretty regular correspondent who nearly 
always uses terrible subjects (e.g., "question") and has other sort 
of horrible email habits, like responding to existing threads with 
new messages with new subjects.




Seems like for many people, applying a descriptive tag to the 
discussion might be easier than force-applying a change of subject 
line to an extended thread.


This seems to be a much better solution. It's much more flexible and 
comprehensive than messing around with email subject lines. Especially 
as it seems like your friend will figure out how to break any scheme 
you invent to "organise" them. You can archive/copy email to specific 
mailboxes too.


I can see the usefulness of being able to tag messages, but that doesn't 
solve the problems for which being able to edit a received message is a 
solution.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] note or subject modification

[Randall Gellens]

On 5 Feb 2023, at 12:36, John Cooper wrote:


I miss Eudora's powerful abilities too, but as Benny mentioned, they 
become more difficult both to implement and to use an an IMAP world.


Eudora used IMAP APPEND to upload the edited message to the mail store, 
and DELETE/EXPUNGE to get rid of the original. Eudora applied any IMAP 
flags or states to the new message to match the old (e.g., READ, 
REPLIED, FLAGGED). Yes, other clients saw the edited message as new, but 
with the same flags as the old, and since most people using the feature 
used it on their personal mail (as opposed to a multi-user shared 
mailbox), meaning they were the one who edited the message, I'm not 
aware of anyone who used it becoming confused by it. (Come to think of 
it, it would probably be even more useful in a multi-user shared mailbox 
case.)


Can you or Benny clarify "more difficult both to implement and to use in 
an IMAP world"? As someone who used the feature extensively in an IMAP 
world, I didn't see any problems.



--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] note or subject modification

[Randall Gellens]

On 5 Feb 2023, at 11:42, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 5 Feb 2023, at 20:33, John Doherty via mailmate wrote:

Yup, I never even noticed before that this option existed and can't 
really think of why I would want to do it. But different strokes, 
etc. Maybe someone has a reason that I haven't thought of.


I believe the typical use case is something like this: Whenever 
receiving an email with a non-descriptive subject header such as 
“Help” or “Bug” (it happens a lot) then the recipient might 
want to rewrite the subject to something which makes it easier to 
identify later on. This was more easily done in the POP3 days since it 
would only affect local storage. With IMAP, the change needs to be 
synchronized with the server.


As I mentioned in the previous discussion of a feature to modify 
received messages, there are multiple situations where the ability to 
modify a received message is needed. Mac Eudora had an advanced setting 
that enabled an "Edit" command that allowed modifying any part of a 
received message. I found this extremely helpful, especially when a 
message was sent to me using a non-preferred address; I could edit the 
"To" header field and change it to the preferred address, so that when I 
replied the reply would be from the preferred address (I could have 
edited the reply to be from the right address, but that is too easy to 
forget). There's also the case Benny mentioned, of adding helpful detail 
to a Subject. Another case is adding notes to the body, such as notes 
from a phone call or such. This last use case could also be met by 
allowing adding a custom header field, such as "Notes: " (or even 
"Post-receipt-notes: " if you want to make it obvious).


Benny, please consider expanding this feature to be able to edit any 
header field or the body. At minimum, just add the ability to edit the 
address header fields as well as the subject would be really helpful.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Pasting text results in image - how to fix?

[Randall Gellens]

On 26 Jan 2023, at 8:18, Giovanni Lanzani wrote:


On 26 Jan 2023, at 12:23, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 22 Jan 2023, at 0:42, Scott wrote:


It'll only happen if the application putting it on the pasteboard 
added an image as well as text. I don't really know why any app would 
do that if it's really only text. (MailMate does not have any text to 
image conversion.)


That said, I recall changing something related to Office apps (at 
least Excel and Word), but I'm not sure it works in other cases. 
Please try and see if the latest beta behaves differently (r5937). If 
not, I'll revisit the issue (right now, I've forgotten the details :) 
).




Excel works indeed and you get a nice Markdown table. Pasting from 
Numbers (= Excel made by Apple) results in an image indeed.


I run into this most often when pasting from Numbers. In my cases, I'm 
most often just copying one or two cells and wanting to paste them as 
plain text, so ending up as a markdown table would be extra work, but I 
can see that as being what's most often desired by users in general.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Pasting text results in image - how to fix?

[Randall Gellens]

I agree, this is frustrating. I do the same -- cmd-tab into BBEdit then 
cmd-N, cmd-A, cmd-C, cmd-W, click "delete", cmd-tab to MailMate, cmd-P.


--Randall

On 21 Jan 2023, at 15:42, Scott wrote:


Hello,

For a while now (over a year, possibly more), I've found that when I 
paste text into a compose window on MailMate, instead of just getting 
the text, it is turned into a Pasted Image (PNG, I think).


This is somewhat infuriating, as I end up taking the same text from 
the Clipboard, pasting it into Sublime Text, select-all, copy, and 
THEN pasting it into MailMate.


Is it just me?  Is there a workaround?

The source text is often from various web-apps I use for work, but, no 
other application besides MailMate seems to have an issue with it.


I can take the same Clipboard and paste into a Terminal session, vim, 
any text editor, DevonThink, doesn't matter...always works.


But MailMate will almost always turn pasted text into an image.

I'm guessing there's extraneous information in the copied data which 
is making MailMate assume I'm trying to paste binary content, perhaps.


Would be great if someone knows a way around this!

Regards,

Scott

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Re: [MlMt] Feature Request: Time tracker in Message edit window

[Randall Gellens]

On 10 Nov 2022, at 1:10, mailm...@businessdatasystems.co.nz wrote:

I've found that a time tracker in the message edit window of another 
email client enhanced my focus.


The time tracker simply displayed the amount of time spend composing 
an email. After a configurable period the text displaying the time 
spent turned red to indicate that you had exceeded that amount of 
time.


It was extremely simple in the interface. I really appreciated it and 
would like to see it in MailMate.


I'm curious about your experience of this being helpful, because I would 
imagine it to be the opposite of helpful, a distraction that removed 
focus while thinking of how to word something. Is it maybe that you 
start to compose, then get distracted by something else, and the timer 
reminds you to finish?



--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Finer control of blacklist

[Randall Gellens]

On 20 Oct 2022, at 16:45, Henry Seiden wrote:

A one-off rule for spam filtering seems doomed to fail getting all 
possible combinations, eventually.


Obviously, such rules tend to be short-term to quiet whatever current 
surge is happening. That said, I find it very helpful, along with 
server-based rules to, e.g., block hosts that use IP addresses in their 
HELO/EHLO.


Mac Eudora had several features that made rule maintenance much easier. 
Two in particular: first, looking at a rule showed when it was last 
triggered; the list of rules showed a tiny dinosaur next to a rule that 
hadn't fired in a long time, making it easy to update or delete rules 
that no longer worked. Second, selecting one or more messages and 
opening the rules window highlighted the rules that the selected 
messages matched. That made it much easier to debug rules. Three more 
features that were very helpful: a "starts with" test in the rule 
syntax, a "near" test (for words that were near each other), and the 
ability to use a regular expression as a test.




I’m (un)lucky enough to have to filter many forms of junk mail 
including traditional spam, among several accounts. Four out of eight 
accounts have much more spam and much more activity, so I think that 
the more active with good (non spam mail) an account/source us the 
more junk you’ll get.


All-in-all, I filter all my incoming email with SpamSieve which does a 
great job overall. I happen to use a separate email drone set up 
outside of my MailMate app to do it and have been doing so for years.


But good luck to you.

Respectfully,

Henry Seiden
- -
Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 20 Oct 2022, at 19:02, Randall Gellens wrote:


On 18 Oct 2022, at 16:23, Malcolm Fitzgerald wrote:

I receive mail from a person that I always want to block. They 
always use the name "Steve Wroblewski" but they use a different 
email address each time. The options for blocking seem to be "User 
Name " or "".


Is it possible for me to block this person using their name? Or 
should I set up a rule for this? I simply want email from them to be 
permanently deleted.


I have a rule exactly like this in my "Spam (obvious) rule":

[From -> Name] [is] [xxx]

In my case, the spam has a consistent name and part of the subject, 
with different from and to addresses, and modifications of the 
subject, so my rule is a compound rule:


[All} of the following are true
   [From -> Name] [is] [Mel Gonzales]
   [Subject] [Contains] [Electronic Waste Collection]



-Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Finer control of blacklist

[Randall Gellens]

On 18 Oct 2022, at 16:23, Malcolm Fitzgerald wrote:

I receive mail from a person that I always want to block. They always 
use the name "Steve Wroblewski" but they use a different email address 
each time. The options for blocking seem to be "User Name " or 
"".


Is it possible for me to block this person using their name? Or should 
I set up a rule for this? I simply want email from them to be 
permanently deleted.


I have a rule exactly like this in my "Spam (obvious) rule":

[From -> Name] [is] [xxx]

In my case, the spam has a consistent name and part of the subject, with 
different from and to addresses, and modifications of the subject, so my 
rule is a compound rule:


[All} of the following are true
   [From -> Name] [is] [Mel Gonzales]
   [Subject] [Contains] [Electronic Waste Collection]



--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] [MAYBE SPAM] Comments in MM .plist files?

[Randall Gellens]

On 28 Sep 2022, at 0:01, Jolin Warren wrote:

> You can put comments in the KeyBindings files using /* comment */.

Thank you.

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[MlMt] New moveSignatureToTop/moveSignatureToBottom commands

[Randall Gellens]

Can someone give me a clue how to use these, please?

I added the following to my keybindings:

"^t" = "moveSignatureToTop:";
"^b" = "moveSignatureToBottom:";

When composing a message (e.g., a reply), these keys do nothing.

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[MlMt] Comments in MM .plist files?

[Randall Gellens]

I thought .plist files used standard XML/HTML comment syntax, e.g.,:



But putting such in a .plist file in ~/Library/Application 
Support/MailMate/Resources/KeyBindings/ causes MM to not accept any of 
the keybindings in the file.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Download some but not all blocked images

[Randall Gellens]

On 3 Sep 2022, at 9:51, Randy Bush wrote:


Is there any way to tell MM to download (and hence display inline)
some of them, without downloading the others? E.g., perhaps I want to
download and see the images from the CDN but not the buttons, and
especially not the image from the suspicious-sounding "ktclick.com".


i have dreams of MM putting up a selection menu; but that would be a
large kludge.  so i use little snitch to block well-known trackers.
and this does not seem to help with the one pixel "you read it." :(


I don't think it would need to be kludgy. The current list that MM shows 
when clicking the disclosure triangle would seem a natural place. MM 
could have a checkbox or button after each one to cause it to be 
downloaded. Perhaps two checkboxes or buttons, the second to add the 
domain to the blacklist. (Even better would be a preference to add regex 
to cause embedded external links to be blocked.)


--Randall
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[MlMt] Download some but not all blocked images

[Randall Gellens]

I'm using MM 5913. There's a disclosure triangle at the top of a message 
body showing the not-downloaded images, e.g.,:


Detected 7 external resources   Download (7)

Blocked 
(7)	https://d3k81ch9hvuctc.cloudfront.net/company/WyAeLe/images/92e98316-24b6-467b-a1f0-388bfd350f22.png 
(img src)


https://d3k81ch9hvuctc.cloudfront.net/company/WyAeLe/images/10e2368a-67a1-4082-a570-2cc18f8d69a8.jpeg 
(img src)


https://d3k81ch9hvuctc.cloudfront.net/company/WyAeLe/images/28e13f5d-a75e-4542-a81d-7032049ea2e0.jpeg 
(img src)


https://d3k81ch9hvuctc.cloudfront.net/assets/email/buttons/default/facebook_96.png 
(img src)


https://d3k81ch9hvuctc.cloudfront.net/assets/email/buttons/default/instagram_96.png 
(img src)


https://d3k81ch9hvuctc.cloudfront.net/assets/email/buttons/default/youtube_96.png 
(img src)


https://ct.klclick.com/q/DjZH0EoPKmjI30t9NOYB0w~~/AASl5QA~/RgRk9fHkPlcDc3BjQgpjBuRsE2NCn7iyUhlkZW5zdGVhQHJhbmR5LnBlbnNpdmUub3JnWAQABAzh 
(img src)


Is there any way to tell MM to download (and hence display inline) some 
of them, without downloading the others? E.g., perhaps I want to 
download and see the images from the CDN but not the buttons, and 
especially not the image from the suspicious-sounding "ktclick.com".


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Lines not wrapped in viewer

[Randall Gellens]

Hi Henry,

Thanks for trying to be helpful. In this case, the messages are HTML. 
Actually, they are multipart/alternative with a text/HTML and a 
text/plain body part. If I switch the MM viewer preferences to plain 
text, I can see the message.


Mailmate's "View ->HTML source" shows what appears to be a 
digested/interpreted version of the raw message. The bug may be in an 
HTML viewer or pre-processor that MM uses.


--Randall

On 30 Jun 2022, at 2:38, Henry Seiden wrote:


Randall,

FWIW, I have seen this in messages on another app (Mail) on an iPad. I 
suspect that the original message was composed on a different device 
than the one it is viewed on. For example message composed on a 80 
char/line device and hard wrapped. Opened on a narrower device like an 
iPhone in a less powerful app, this condition can occur.


MM is smart enough to wrap to the window size by default. There is a 
double-click setting in Viewer to open a message in a new window. 
Would this help if it were changed (Preferences>Viewer)?


Respectfully,

Henry Seiden
- -
Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 22 Jun 2022, at 9:11, Randall Gellens wrote:

I get a lot of mail where MM doesn't wrap the lines in the viewer, 
making the message very hard to read. I have to manually scroll right 
and left for each line.


The messages are multipart/alternative with text/plain and text/html 
body parts, passed through a mailing list.


--Randall
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[MlMt] Share -> Send Message fails

[Randall Gellens]

MailMate 58999 on MacOS 11.6.5.

Using the "share" function from Safari or Firerfox to send the current 
page via MailMate now drops all data. It used to create a draft message 
with the "Subject:" header field pre-filled with the page title and the 
body pre-filled with the URL. Now, it's all blank.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] New status icons

[Randall Gellens]

I'm fine with the attachments column as is. I'm not sure what you mean 
by "enabling importance." If I want to send a message with it, I use the 
drop-down to enable 'X-Priority', but in my experience no one pays any 
attention to it.


--Randall

On 23 Jun 2022, at 3:13, Henry Seiden wrote:


Randall,

I get it. Also somewhat problematic as to both, the flag and 
importance are shared in one column, as are status (unread, forwarded 
and replied). Could it be that those shared columns are in some ways 
more important, hence larger?


Since Benny and his team have chosen to include so much flexibility, 
not sure about all of that flexibility being necessary but if it is, I 
would agree that those leftmost could be in some way more adjustable 
than they are (currently neither in size of the icon nor column 
widths, though they are draggable in position).


As said previously, in my perfect world the particular sizes of those 
icons is good as is. Particularly, the rightmost column, signaling 
only an attachment. From what you say, I think you have no objection 
to that?


How do you enable importance, BTW?

Respectfully,

Henry Seiden
- -
Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 22 Jun 2022, at 17:30, Randall Gellens wrote:

My apologies: I meant to say that the status and flags are the two 
left-most columns.


--Randall

On 22 Jun 2022, at 8:39, Randall Gellens wrote:

The columns to the right are resizable by dragging, but the status 
and flags (two right-most columns) are not.



--Randall

On 22 Jun 2022, at 7:03, Henry Seiden wrote:


Hi Randall,

In MM v1.14, both Test Builds, r5898 and r5899 show the column 
widths in the Message window adjustable and the icons everywhere 
normal looking to me.


May I suggest you try saving your settings, then removing and 
reinstalling the app and save your previous settings without having 
MM open? I have found this useful as a general cure-all, for 
settings gone awry. (There’s a How-to in the Help menu>Rebuild 
Database>How to transfer MailMate Settings…). I use this when 
installing MM on test builds of new MacOS as well as 
troubleshooting. Maybe Benny has other advice, but that has worked 
for me in the past.


Good luck.

Respectfully,

Henry Seiden
- -
Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 22 Jun 2022, at 9:14, Randall Gellens wrote:

I updated to 58999 and the new status icons look gigantic. I'm 
using the three-pane view (mailboxes on left, table of contents on 
right, message view below). The column widths don't seem 
adjustable so I can't shrink the status column. Is there a way to 
switch to smaller icons?


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] New status icons

[Randall Gellens]

It's not "one character" wide, it's the width of a glyph that in my 
display (using 12-point font) is about three characters wide. If the 
glyph size was reduced, the column would be narrower.


--Randall

On 22 Jun 2022, at 9:21, Henry Seiden wrote:


Yes. Since they are only one character wide, it seems OK as is to me.

Respectfully,

Henry Seiden
- -
Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 22 Jun 2022, at 11:39, Randall Gellens wrote:

The columns to the right are resizable by dragging, but the status 
and flags (two right-most columns) are not.



--Randall

On 22 Jun 2022, at 7:03, Henry Seiden wrote:


Hi Randall,

In MM v1.14, both Test Builds, r5898 and r5899 show the column 
widths in the Message window adjustable and the icons everywhere 
normal looking to me.


May I suggest you try saving your settings, then removing and 
reinstalling the app and save your previous settings without having 
MM open? I have found this useful as a general cure-all, for 
settings gone awry. (There’s a How-to in the Help menu>Rebuild 
Database>How to transfer MailMate Settings…). I use this when 
installing MM on test builds of new MacOS as well as 
troubleshooting. Maybe Benny has other advice, but that has worked 
for me in the past.


Good luck.

Respectfully,

Henry Seiden
- -
Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 22 Jun 2022, at 9:14, Randall Gellens wrote:

I updated to 58999 and the new status icons look gigantic. I'm 
using the three-pane view (mailboxes on left, table of contents on 
right, message view below). The column widths don't seem adjustable 
so I can't shrink the status column. Is there a way to switch to 
smaller icons?


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] New status icons

[Randall Gellens]

My apologies: I meant to say that the status and flags are the two 
left-most columns.


--Randall

On 22 Jun 2022, at 8:39, Randall Gellens wrote:

The columns to the right are resizable by dragging, but the status and 
flags (two right-most columns) are not.



--Randall

On 22 Jun 2022, at 7:03, Henry Seiden wrote:


Hi Randall,

In MM v1.14, both Test Builds, r5898 and r5899 show the column widths 
in the Message window adjustable and the icons everywhere normal 
looking to me.


May I suggest you try saving your settings, then removing and 
reinstalling the app and save your previous settings without having 
MM open? I have found this useful as a general cure-all, for settings 
gone awry. (There’s a How-to in the Help menu>Rebuild Database>How 
to transfer MailMate Settings…). I use this when installing MM on 
test builds of new MacOS as well as troubleshooting. Maybe Benny has 
other advice, but that has worked for me in the past.


Good luck.

Respectfully,

Henry Seiden
- -
Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 22 Jun 2022, at 9:14, Randall Gellens wrote:

I updated to 58999 and the new status icons look gigantic. I'm using 
the three-pane view (mailboxes on left, table of contents on right, 
message view below). The column widths don't seem adjustable so I 
can't shrink the status column. Is there a way to switch to smaller 
icons?


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] New status icons

[Randall Gellens]

The columns to the right are resizable by dragging, but the status and 
flags (two right-most columns) are not.



--Randall

On 22 Jun 2022, at 7:03, Henry Seiden wrote:


Hi Randall,

In MM v1.14, both Test Builds, r5898 and r5899 show the column widths 
in the Message window adjustable and the icons everywhere normal 
looking to me.


May I suggest you try saving your settings, then removing and 
reinstalling the app and save your previous settings without having MM 
open? I have found this useful as a general cure-all, for settings 
gone awry. (There’s a How-to in the Help menu>Rebuild Database>How 
to transfer MailMate Settings…). I use this when installing MM on 
test builds of new MacOS as well as troubleshooting. Maybe Benny has 
other advice, but that has worked for me in the past.


Good luck.

Respectfully,

Henry Seiden
- -
Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 22 Jun 2022, at 9:14, Randall Gellens wrote:

I updated to 58999 and the new status icons look gigantic. I'm using 
the three-pane view (mailboxes on left, table of contents on right, 
message view below). The column widths don't seem adjustable so I 
can't shrink the status column. Is there a way to switch to smaller 
icons?


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] New status icons

[Randall Gellens]

On 22 Jun 2022, at 8:10, Henry Seiden wrote:


Randall,

Screenshot of [my Status icons in the Messages 
window](https://www.dropbox.com/s/eprlcm89yd3xhgi/M-M%20Status%20Icons_2022-06-22%20at%2011.04.26.png?dl=0 
)


Yes, that's how it looks for me as well. In my opinion, the status icons 
are much larger than they need to be, taking up screen real estate and 
somewhat distracting from the table of contents. Personally, I'd suggest 
about a 25-30% reduction in size.


and [on the Sidebar window 
portion](https://www.dropbox.com/s/rncpvpu98s5d6is/M-M%20Sidebar%20icons_2022-06-22%20at%2011.01.18.png?dl=0) 
as seen on my display (3008x1692 px).


Your mailbox icons are colorful while mine are monochromatic, but 
otherwise looks the same.



Note the text sizes.


Sorry, what about it?

--Randall



Respectfully,

Henry Seiden
- -
Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 22 Jun 2022, at 9:14, Randall Gellens wrote:

I updated to 58999 and the new status icons look gigantic. I'm using 
the three-pane view (mailboxes on left, table of contents on right, 
message view below). The column widths don't seem adjustable so I 
can't shrink the status column. Is there a way to switch to smaller 
icons?



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--Randall
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[MlMt] New status icons

[Randall Gellens]

I updated to 58999 and the new status icons look gigantic. I'm using the 
three-pane view (mailboxes on left, table of contents on right, message 
view below). The column widths don't seem adjustable so I can't shrink 
the status column. Is there a way to switch to smaller icons?


--Randall
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[MlMt] Lines not wrapped in viewer

[Randall Gellens]

I get a lot of mail where MM doesn't wrap the lines in the viewer, 
making the message very hard to read. I have to manually scroll right 
and left for each line.


The messages are multipart/alternative with text/plain and text/html 
body parts, passed through a mailing list.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Change the From address for some emails automatically

[Randall Gellens]

On 7 Jun 2022, at 6:26, leo wrote:


Hi all

For Mail which I receive from certain email addresses I want all my 
replies come from another email address.


Example
Say, I own the two email addresses l...@yahoo.com and l...@gmail.com 
(and have them both in MailMate). Now I receive an email to the 
address l...@yahoo.com, but when I reply I want the email to have as 
From address l...@gmail.com.


Can I achieve this somehow?


Most often, people want the opposite: reply email should be sent from 
the same address the message being replied to was directed towards.


Depending on the complexity of your MailMate setup (e.g., how many 
accounts you have and what other behaviors you want when MM chooses a 
reply address), there are a few approaches you can try.


The simplest would be in MailMate -> Preferences -> Composer, set "New 
Message: Default account is" to your Gmail account.


If your situation makes the above undesirable (e.g., you have other 
accounts where you want the reply from address to be derived from the 
sent to address), what I would try is to have a filter on the 
l...@yahoo.com account Inbox that moves all messages to the l...@gmail.com 
account Inbox (or, create a new IMAP folder in the l...@gmail.com account 
specifically for email sent to the Yahoo address, and have the Yahoo 
Inbox filter move messages there). The idea is to move the Yahoo account 
email to the Gmail account, so that replies by default will be sent from 
Gmail.


--Randall
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[MlMt] Search screwed up display of all mailboxes

[Randall Gellens]

I foolishly did a poorly-constructed search. I copied part of the 
subject of a message and then pasted that into the search control in the 
main view window. MM constructed a search with each word a separate 
search term, resulting in a very long search term. In the resulting 
display, the window expanded beyond the edge of my screen, the "From" 
column was shrunk to a tiny sliver and "Subject" column was expanded to 
fill the window. Unfortunately, this unusable view applies to every 
mailbox, even across restarts and new Viewer windows.



--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Download Images still downloads 1 pixel ones

[Randall Gellens]

On 9 May 2022, at 7:58, Sam Birch wrote:

And as Randy said, the reason why MailMate can’t “strictly 
block” 1-pixel images is that, in many cases, _MailMate has no way 
to know the size of the image until it fetches it from the remote 
server._


For example, here’s an  tag from spam message I recently 
received (re-wrapped for clarity, and domain changed to avoid being 
tagged as spam):


```
http://www.not-the-original-dom.ain/cljo8bq86/Cw4ear2u
2QPT6WIi5q6Mr2gNDEIIpk_24HKoK0Q7ulY/fSlEIVCxnTqw7304Z8k5-7DeoB8B
TUDm4NmMX28zpyXKVfWsVIjfNzFFKOiXLw399vfpzvuSHfoXwZGLWvq6TfyuQPAJ
OvdL7LOQ_tKLpSvPVXO1xJtHDimWEa5bpThzzWOgItSd6XMoWJdv7yKnLtzwcx3m
-zrp7icAZ_1CAcg”>
```

Can you tell that this is a 1-pixel image?

Neither can MailMate.


The difference between "Blocked" and "Strictly Blocked" is that the 
latter uses a list of known-undesirable sources? Given this, I assume 
the purpose of the warning that a 1-pixel image has been downloaded is 
to let the user know that the message whose embedded images were 
downloaded contains obvious trackers? Yet, the message may very likely 
be from a "good" source but sent using a commercial mail distribution 
service which adds its own trackers. It would be more helpful if the 
warning would add the source of each just-downloaded 1-pixel image to 
the "Strictly Blocked" list. Sort of a "Fool me once, shame on you; fool 
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Re: [MlMt] Download Images still downloads 1 pixel ones

[Randall Gellens]

On 7 May 2022, at 7:53, Henry Seiden wrote:


Hello Randall,

I use the download feature all the time to get single images (not 
Download All) and get the full item in my Downloads folder where it 
was set. Thinking that was the default, but not sure).


Further thoughts:
1. Could it be that your download isn’t being directed/specified to 
the proper place? Maybe not since the 1px file link is there.

2. Does a restart of the app or the machine make a difference

MM Preferences>Default Downloads Folder>select/specify the folder 
location (name/location), including a sub-folder. Note that in the 
Menu page there is a checkbox to “Insert file link when removing an 
attachment.” That may have something to do with what you see. Mine 
is checked by default.


Have a go at those settings.

My version is r5895, but I think those settings are the same in the 
release version.


Hi Henry,

I'm not trying to download attachments (I access attachments via their 
icon). I'm talking about the "Download All" and "Download" buttons that 
appear when a message contains embedded images. Some messages contain 
many embedded images and it isn't possible to know which ones I want to 
see. I appreciate that MailMate categorizes embedded images as either 
"blocked" or "strictly blocked," but I was hoping that 1-pixel images 
(which are obviously trackers/beacons) were categorized as "strictly 
blocked" and that "Download" (versus "Download All") wouldn't download 
them.


--Randall
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[MlMt] Download Images still downloads 1 pixel ones

[Randall Gellens]

Using the "Download" (not "Download All") button in the message display, 
MM still downloads 1 pixel images and then warns that it did so. Is 
there a way to download just the "real" images and not the obvious 
trackers (especially the 1 pixel ones)?


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Is there a way to schedule rules running in MailMate?

[Randall Gellens]

On 29 Apr 2022, at 6:09, Robert Wall wrote:


On 29 Apr 2022, at 7:55, Eric Sharakan wrote:


On 29 Apr 2022, at 8:41, Robert Wall wrote:

On Apr 29, 2022, at 7:28 AM, Randall Gellens 
 wrote:


On 28 Apr 2022, at 20:02, Bill Cole wrote:

On 2022-04-28 at 18:03:47 UTC-0400 (Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:03:47 
-0700)

Randall Gellens 
is rumored to have said:

This is what I do for all my archive and auto-delete functions, 
but it seems to me that the rules in the smart mailbox don't 
always fire until I click on the mailbox to view it, a bit like 
Schrödinger's mailbox. I also find this behavior in general, 
e.g., I see a new message arrive in my main Inbox that should 
have been moved by a rule to a different mailbox, but instead it 
sits in my Inbox for hours (maybe longer) but if I click on the 
mailbox to which it should have been moved, there it is and it's 
gone when I switch back to the Inbox. It seems that, for whatever 
reason, rules don't always trigger or at least the effect of them 
running isn't always visible. But other times they do seem to run 
automatically.


This is an IMAP artifact. You don't see the message in the new 
location until you resynch the new location.


You're saying that MailMate doesn't resync a mailbox after it moves 
a message? And furthermore, ignores IDLE, which my server supports 
and which MM issues? Even if that was the case (which seems very 
hard to believe), then how is that the rules do work as intended at 
other times?


I always just thought it was a minor UI glitch. When it happens to 
me, the moved message will sometimes be there for quite awhile- but 
if I switch to another mailbox and back quickly, it disappears as 
expected.


I'm pretty sure Benny has said in the past that this MM behavior is 
intentional, to prevent confusion caused by a message disappearing 
from (or appearing in) a mailbox you're currently looking at.


If it's intentional that it stay, then it's still glitched - because 
sometimes it disappears right away, and sometimes it doesn't.


In my opinion the behavior *should* be to process the rule 
immediately, and register the results of that processing in the UI. 
Otherwise you find yourself staring at messages and wondering why your 
rules aren't firing. :)


Yes, exactly. It would seem to make more sense to download the message, 
run it through the rules, then, if after that the message is put into a 
mailbox currently being viewed, update the display to show it.



--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Is there a way to schedule rules running in MailMate?

[Randall Gellens]

On 28 Apr 2022, at 20:02, Bill Cole wrote:


On 2022-04-28 at 18:03:47 UTC-0400 (Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:03:47 -0700)
Randall Gellens 
is rumored to have said:

This is what I do for all my archive and auto-delete functions, but 
it seems to me that the rules in the smart mailbox don't always fire 
until I click on the mailbox to view it, a bit like Schrödinger's 
mailbox. I also find this behavior in general, e.g., I see a new 
message arrive in my main Inbox that should have been moved by a rule 
to a different mailbox, but instead it sits in my Inbox for hours 
(maybe longer) but if I click on the mailbox to which it should have 
been moved, there it is and it's gone when I switch back to the 
Inbox. It seems that, for whatever reason, rules don't always trigger 
or at least the effect of them running isn't always visible. But 
other times they do seem to run automatically.


This is an IMAP artifact. You don't see the message in the new 
location until you resynch the new location.


You're saying that MailMate doesn't resync a mailbox after it moves a 
message? And furthermore, ignores IDLE, which my server supports and 
which MM issues? Even if that was the case (which seems very hard to 
believe), then how is that the rules do work as intended at other times?


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] remove text from incoming/outgoing emails

[Randall Gellens]

On 25 Apr 2022, at 9:02, Martin Dege wrote:

I want to purposefully remove them from incoming messages. That was my 
question. - so I don’t have to remove them every time something is 
forwarded.


This (editing messages) has come up before. Someone mentioned that there 
was a command to edit a message that they were trying to create a bundle 
to use. I'm not aware of any way to edit messages. I wish there was. Mac 
Eudora had an "edit" feature (only available in advanced mode) that 
allowed one to edit a message. When finished editing, Eudora would use 
IMAP APPEND to upload the edited message and would delete the original 
message. I found it extremely helpful to add notes and follow-up.


In your specific case, all I can think of would be to have a rule that 
exported the message to a folder, then have a shell script or Automator 
action, set to run when a file is added to the folder, that deleted the 
text and then re-sends the message to you using the command-line emate 
tool. I don't know if it would work to set the "From" to the original 
sender's "From" (your server might block it) but if so that would be the 
closest to what you want that I can think of.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Is there a way to schedule rules running in MailMate?

[Randall Gellens]

On 22 Apr 2022, at 8:44, Charlie Clark wrote:


On 21 Apr 2022, at 22:29, Robert Wall wrote:

TL;DR - I'd like to be able to fire off the mail rules for a given 
folder once per day.


Longer explanation:

I have a server that sends me status emails. A lot of status emails. 
And I need to receive these status emails not because I want to read 
every single one, but because if something goes sideways I need to be 
able to poke through the messages for clues / hints.


I don't need to keep these messages longer than a couple of weeks - 
30 days max.


And I have other situations where I'll get 3 or 4 messages for the 
same thing. Amazon order placed, Amazon order shipped, Amazon order 
delayed, Amazon order delivered being a good example. I only need to 
keep the last one.


So I have some existing rules that I can fire off manually which will 
look for stuff with certain subject lines / senders that's older than 
30 days or so, and clean those up - but I still have to run them 
manually.


I'm more than happy to use cron, launchd, or some sort of system 
automation to tell MailMate to do this if that's what's required. Or 
if there's a way in the software itself, that would be wonderful as 
well.


Any thoughts?


Yes. Based on something Bill Cole mentioned a while back I set up a 
virtual folder to collect such messages with a condition "date 
received is not within last" 30 days and a rule to delete the mails 
permanently.


This needs better documentation but shows the power and flexibility of 
MailMate's approach.


This is what I do for all my archive and auto-delete functions, but it 
seems to me that the rules in the smart mailbox don't always fire until 
I click on the mailbox to view it, a bit like Schrödinger's mailbox. I 
also find this behavior in general, e.g., I see a new message arrive in 
my main Inbox that should have been moved by a rule to a different 
mailbox, but instead it sits in my Inbox for hours (maybe longer) but if 
I click on the mailbox to which it should have been moved, there it is 
and it's gone when I switch back to the Inbox. It seems that, for 
whatever reason, rules don't always trigger or at least the effect of 
them running isn't always visible. But other times they do seem to run 
automatically.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Automatically changing subject line of incoming mails

[Randall Gellens]

I didn't realize there was a Change Subject command. Does anyone know if 
this only affects the cached message, or if MailMate uses APPEND to 
replace the message in the IMAP mailbox on the server? (Mac Eudora had 
an Edit command that let one edit any part of a message; for IMAP 
mailboxes APPEND was used.)


--Randall

On 23 Mar 2022, at 2:48, Pascal Felber wrote:


Hi,

I am using exclusively MailMate for all my mails, both personal and 
professional. Now our IT service has started adding prefixes to all 
incoming professional e-mails coming from the outside, which is really 
annoying (in particular they stack up when exchanging several emails 
back and forth).


I have seen that I can change the subject of one mail in my mailbox 
using the command "MailMate->Change Subject". Is there a simple way to 
automate the operation of renaming of a mail when it is fetched from 
the server (ideally using some simple regular expression to search for 
and replace a string/prefix)? Alternatively, can this be done manually 
by selecting multiple e-mails and triggering the command for batch 
renaming?


I can certainly try to make a bundle, but if one already exists (or 
one is close enough that I just need to customize it) that would be 
great!


Thanks,

Pascal
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Re: [MlMt] "Date Received" column width

[Randall Gellens]

Those are the built-in virtual mailboxes. I'd adjusted the date column 
width on the "All Messages" and "Inbox" (which is I think the "All 
Inboxes" you mentioned) but it doesn't seem to carry down to the 
individual mailboxes.


--Randall

On 9 Mar 2022, at 19:12, Henry Seiden wrote:


Randall,

Mailbox list left side menu>Mailboxes group. E.G. All Inbox, All 
Archives, All Drafts, etc.


If you change All Inbox column, you will affect all the sub-mailboxes 
under them. Likewise if you change the group, you affect all the 
subset mailboxes. That’s what I meant. Likewise the column width.


Of course changing the display size likewise affect all in different 
ways (Full-screen settings).


Respectfully,

Henry Seiden

Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 9 Mar 2022, at 19:09, Randall Gellens wrote:


Hi Henry,

I'm not sure what you mean by "each group" and "sub-set items" or how 
that is different from just dragging the column in the main viewer 
window to make it bigger. Do you mean in the auto-created virtual 
mailboxes at the top of the main viewer window?


--Randall

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Re: [MlMt] "Date Received" column width

[Randall Gellens]

Hi Henry,

I'm not sure what you mean by "each group" and "sub-set items" or how 
that is different from just dragging the column in the main viewer 
window to make it bigger. Do you mean in the auto-created virtual 
mailboxes at the top of the main viewer window?


--Randall

On 8 Mar 2022, at 20:01, Henry Seiden wrote:


Randall,

Setting the column width in the section of each group (example “Sent 
Items”) sticks it in All the sub-set items in my Test Build version 
r5874+. Maybe try that. Also the relative position of the column is 
likewise set for all other members. Not sure what the intent was 
originally.


Respectfully,

Henry Seiden

Techworks Pro Co.
E: infotechworksprocom
W: http://techworkspro.com

On 8 Mar 2022, at 22:06, Randall Gellens wrote:

The column width of "Date Received" keeps shrinking back to its 
default, which isn't wide enough to display some times, so it just 
shows the date. I manually enlarge it, but then at some point it's 
shrunk back again. Is there a way to get it to stick, or better, to 
have it automatically adjust?


It would also be nice to display just the time for messages received 
today.



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--Randall
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[MlMt] "Date Received" column width

[Randall Gellens]

The column width of "Date Received" keeps shrinking back to its default, 
which isn't wide enough to display some times, so it just shows the 
date. I manually enlarge it, but then at some point it's shrunk back 
again. Is there a way to get it to stick, or better, to have it 
automatically adjust?


It would also be nice to display just the time for messages received 
today.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] MM keeps demanding passwords

[Randall Gellens]

On 8 Mar 2022, at 8:54, Randall Gellens wrote:

I just changed the setting on the Login keychain, Hopefully that fixes 
it.


I'm happy to report that this does seem to have fixed it. I turned off 
"Lock keychain on sleep." (Although, from a security point of view, I'd 
want the keychain locked on sleep but automatically unlocked on 
authenticated wake, but there doesn't seem to be a way to do that.)


On 8 Mar 2022, at 9:24, i...@techworkspro.com wrote:


Randall,

Some accounts need App-Specific passwords to be used in MM. Could this 
be your problem? Specifically when i migrated from Apple Mail, iCloud 
needed those to both log in and send email. It is mentioned in the 
help guide and other docs. Some others like Google and Yahoo! send you 
to a website when relocating your mail client. Kinda the same steps to 
validate clients.


Thanks for the idea, Henry; in my case it was just normal IMAP accounts. 
The problem seems to be that the Keychain was getting locked when the 
machine went to sleep, and then MailMate got an error which it 
interpreted as the item being absent rather than the keychain being 
locked.



On 8 Mar 2022, at 9:46, Ian Petersen wrote:


Randall,

it pops up a dialog demanding the password for various accounts, 
claiming the password isn't in the keychain, which it is. I open 
Keychain Utility, copy the password to the clipboard, paste it into 
the box, and MM is happy for a while. Very annoying.


My Mailmate has done that for years through several OS versions and 
myriad MM versions. It happens a couple of times a month for me. I 
just shut down MM for an hour or so and it seems to be fine again. You 
don't even need to add the password again because it's already there. 
I think it's a glitch between MM and Keychain ...


It sounds like there may be some issues here. Is Benny aware of this?


On 8 Mar 2022, at 9:49, Alexandre Takacs wrote:

A bit tangential to the topic but still of interest (I think) is that 
if for whatever reason you missed your initial user / pass combination 
when setting up you account (especially with OAUTH) MM will have all 
kinds of issues with your account in the future, even if correct 
credentials are latter submitted. You’d rather want to redo it from 
scratch.


That sounds unpleasant. I hope Benny has some idea of what's going on.

--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] MM keeps demanding passwords

[Randall Gellens]

I just changed the setting on the Login keychain, Hopefully that fixes 
it.


--Randall

On 8 Mar 2022, at 7:50, Randall Gellens wrote:

I migrated from my long-time High Sierra laptop to a new one 
(currently running Big Sur as I had some problems with Monterey). 
Mailmate moved over mostly fine, but when the laptop has been idle for 
a while, or just when MM feels like it, it pops up a dialog demanding 
the password for various accounts, claiming the password isn't in the 
keychain, which it is. I open Keychain Utility, copy the password to 
the clipboard, paste it into the box, and MM is happy for a while. 
Very annoying.


I upgraded yesterday to 5852 but no difference.

--Randall
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[MlMt] MM keeps demanding passwords

[Randall Gellens]

I migrated from my long-time High Sierra laptop to a new one (currently 
running Big Sur as I had some problems with Monterey). Mailmate moved 
over mostly fine, but when the laptop has been idle for a while, or just 
when MM feels like it, it pops up a dialog demanding the password for 
various accounts, claiming the password isn't in the keychain, which it 
is. I open Keychain Utility, copy the password to the clipboard, paste 
it into the box, and MM is happy for a while. Very annoying.


I upgraded yesterday to 5852 but no difference.

--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Auto-typo

[Randall Gellens]

Thank you. That's also where the curly quotes were coming from.

--Randall

On 18 Feb 2022, at 14:05, Stephan Bösebeck wrote:


I would guess, it's OSX.

You can change the behaviour in Settings -> Keyboard -> Text. By 
default the checkbox for automatic correct is checked.


hope that helps.

On 18 Feb 2022, at 22:52, Randall Gellens wrote:

Running MailMate 5869 on MacOS 12, the composer auto-typos, e.g., 
changing “uid” to “did”. Is this a MailMate thing or a MacOS 
thing? I don’t see anything in the MailMate Composer settings for 
it.


--Randall

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[MlMt] Auto-typo

[Randall Gellens]

Running MailMate 5869 on MacOS 12, the composer auto-typos, e.g., 
changing “uid” to “did”. Is this a MailMate thing or a MacOS 
thing? I don’t see anything in the MailMate Composer settings for it.


--Randall

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Re: [MlMt] 'Date Received' in 5869

[Randall Gellens]

On 11 Feb 2022, at 11:05, Pete Resnick via mailmate wrote:


On 10 Feb 2022, at 20:24, Randall Gellens wrote:

Now that I’m on MacOS 12.2, I updated MailMate to 5869. The ‘Date 
Received’ column sometimes shows the time and sometimes not, even 
for messages received today. Messages showing the time and not are 
interspersed. Is this a preference? I’d prefer the time always, at 
least for messages today or last few days.


I make a bet all of those times are after 10am or 10pm: There's simply 
not enough room in the column. Make it wider.


Making the column wider fixed it. Thanks, Pete.

--Randall
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[MlMt] 'Date Received' in 5869

[Randall Gellens]

Now that I’m on MacOS 12.2, I updated MailMate to 5869. The ‘Date 
Received’ column sometimes shows the time and sometimes not, even for 
messages received today. Messages showing the time and not are 
interspersed. Is this a preference? I’d prefer the time always, at 
least for messages today or last few days.


![](cid:F5A45647-43E6-41D1-B724-DFF7BBA0B99F@randy.pensive.org 
"PastedImage.png")



--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Reinstalling MailMate after a Mac OS Erase and Install

[Randall Gellens]

As it happens, I’m in the process of migrating to a new laptop. 
Apple’s Migration Assistant utility did a remarkably poor job, 
transferring a few apps but no files in my library. I manually copied 
~/Library/Application Support/MailMate and 
~/Library/Preferences/com.freron.MailMate.plist. I had to reenter my 
account passwords and license key, but other than that, everything seems 
to be here.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] No longer seeing URL when hovering over links, or link text

[Randall Gellens]

I just fell back to 5673, which avoids the URL and weird box thing for 
links, but suffers from the Markdown issue where blank lines are 
dropped.


--Randall

On 28 Nov 2021, at 19:36, Bob Stern via mailmate wrote:


On 28 Nov 2021, at 12:48, Randall Gellens wrote:

I'm on 10.13.6 (High Sierra) and just updated to 5850 from the 
released 5673, and now I no longer get the actual URL pop-up when I 
hover over a link


5850 does not have that bug on my system running Catalina (10.15.x).

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[MlMt] No longer seeing URL when hovering over links, or link text

[Randall Gellens]

I'm on 10.13.6 (High Sierra) and just updated to 5850 from the released 
5673, and now I no longer get the actual URL pop-up when I hover over a 
link. I also see a large box with an "X" (looks like an envelope so is a 
bit confusing) in place of images and links, and I no longer see the 
link text (e.g., "Click for story"). Are these regression bugs from 5673 
to 5850, or some weird interaction?


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] SSL Certificate Expired

[Randall Gellens]

On 25 Nov 2021, at 9:02, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 24 Nov 2021, at 1:10, Ralph Alvy wrote:

I haven't used MM for a couple months and just went back to it and 
attempted to check for an update and was told the SSL Certificate has 
expired. What do I do about this?


macOS 10.14.6
Mailmate 1.13.2


Could you try again? (I've replaced some server certificates which 
should help resolve this issue.)


I just tried it, and no certificate error this time. Instead, I'm told 
"MailMate 5673 is the latest version available—you have version 5673." 
I suppose because I'm still on 10.13 (High Sierra).



--Randall

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Re: [MlMt] Markdown formatting

[Randall Gellens]

On 12 Nov 2021, at 12:22, Bill Cole wrote:


On 2021-11-12 at 13:34:46 UTC-0500 (Fri, 12 Nov 2021 10:34:46 -0800)
Randall Gellens 
is rumored to have said:

I just tried to check for an update but received the error "SSL 
certificate problem: certificate has expired", which might explain 
why I wasn't aware there was anything newer.


That's probably a consequence of the recent expiration of the root CA 
cert ("DST Root CA X3") on a secondary validation path for Let's 
Encrypt certificates. Sites serve the full trust chain of certs needed 
for all of their trust paths except for the root to all clients and 
many are still serving both the valid trust path and the one that 
relies on an expired root. There's actually no consensus on whether 
server and intermediate certs that were issued when a CA cert was 
valid should be considered invalid when the CA expires but the issued 
cert is still nominally valid.


The fixes for that base problem vary between systems and can be 
confusing because an app can use the OS's security layer and its 
keychains of trusted CA certs or the Apple-distributed antique OpenSSL 
with a PEM bundle of CA certs in /etc/ssl/cert.pem  or the MacPorts 
OpenSSL with the 'curl-ca-bundle' package that puts a link at 
/opt/local/etc/openssl/cert.pem which points to 
/opt/local/share/curl/curl-ca-bundle.crt. Or if you use Homebrew, you 
might have something in /usr/local/etc. Some apps may even bundle 
their own SSL libraries to do self-updates. I'm pretty sure MM just 
uses the system facilities, but if you have similar problems with 
other tools


If Keychain Access will let you do so, you should remove "DST Root CA 
X3" from your System Roots keychain.
On recent systems with SPI enabled, you can't do that so you can work 
around the problem by changing its Trust Settings to "Always Trust."


I don't seem to have such a certificate. Nothing matches "DST" or "X3" 
anywhere.



You also should check your keychains for multiple versions of the 
"ISRG Root X1" certificate, which SHOULD be a self-signed root CA cert 
in SystemRoots. However, you may also have another version in the 
System or login keychains which is NOT actually a root CA cert but 
rather is issued by that expired root CA cert. If you do have one of 
those, they need to go. If you are unable to remove non-root versions 
of the "ISRG Root X1" cert or do not have the root version in 
SystemRoots, you can get the current version from 
http://x1.i.lencr.org/ and import it into your System keychain. 
(imports into SystemRoots don't work.)


I only have one such certificate, which expires in 2035.  Serial number 
"00 82 10 CF B0 D2 40 E3 59 44 63 E0 BB 63 82 8B 00".



Given that I don't seem to have a "DST Root CA X3" cert and I have only 
one "ISRG Root X1" cert, what do you suggest?

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Re: [MlMt] Multiple rule interactions (was "Re: Filter(?) Message is moved to trash")

[Randall Gellens]

On 23 Nov 2021, at 2:47, Robert Brenstein wrote:

I was using such moving as you describe when I was using Eudora. 
Switching from POP to IMAP changed the paradigm. With Mailmate, I just 
leave messages in the Inbox and instead of moving have smart mailboxes 
to show those selected messages. For what you describe as Inbox, I 
have a smart mailbox called incoming. Same end effect with no physical 
movements and actually more control.


I have been using IMAP since last century, even with Eudora. I 
understand the advantages of virtual mailboxes, but I prefer the 
certainty and interoperability of using multiple real mailboxes. E.g., 
sometimes I access my mail using Mail on an iOS device, or even webmail. 
Virtual mailboxes are of course only useful within MailMate.


More to the point, I'd like to understand if the behavior I'm seeing is 
intentional or a bug. If the former, I'd like to see an explanation of 
how rules are supposed to work. If the latter, it'd be nice to have an 
idea of when it might be fixed.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Word count ?

[Randall Gellens]

On 22 Nov 2021, at 4:47, Nick Rich via mailmate wrote:

Is there a way to have Mailmate display a word count of what’s in  
the compose window? A live count would be brilliant (eg, live enough 
to increment each time I type a word) but even a ‘select and right 
click to get a word count’ function would be useful.


( Detail: I suppose I’d want it to count Markdown preview words 
rather than markdown source words, but I don’t suppose there is 
enough difference between the two to worry that much.  wc compatible 
counting would be fine. )


Apologies if I’m missing the obvious! My googling didn’t turn up 
anything.


I’m using Mailmate Version 1.14 (5843) on macOS Monterey (12.01)

Thanks for any thoughts!

Nick


When I'm composing something where I care about the word count, I 
typically compose in BBEdit, which has a live character/word/line count, 
then when I'm done I copy and paste into the MailMate compose window.


--Randall
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[MlMt] Multiple rule interactions (was "Re: Filter(?) Message is moved to trash")

[Randall Gellens]

I have some accounts where the Inbox rules are first a set of rules that 
each check for a certain value in a header field (often, the 'List-ID' 
field), and if so, add a keyword to the message and move it to a 
list-specific mailbox. Then there's a rule that, if the the 'To' and 
'Cc' header fields do not contain my address and the keyword added by 
the earlier rules doesn't appear, then move the message to a catch-all 
mailbox. The intent is that the messages left in the Inbox were 
addressed to me, messages for certain lists I care about are moved to 
their list-specific mailboxes, and everything else is in the catch-all 
mailbox.


However, what ends up happening is that messages are moved to the 
catch-all mailbox despite an earlier rule moving them to a list-specific 
mailbox (as evidenced by the keyword having been added). Are rules 
processed in an aggregate way, so that an earlier rule that moves a 
message is counteracted by a later rule? And an earlier rule that adds a 
keyword doesn't actually add it until after all rules have finished, so 
that other rules can't test it?


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Markdown formatting

[Randall Gellens]

On 12 Nov 2021, at 5:09, Patrick Okui wrote:


On 11 Nov 2021, at 2:08 EAT, Randall Gellens wrote:


On 9 Nov 2021, at 9:52, Steve Hodgson wrote:


I’m running Version 1.14 (5843). Seems ok today.


I'm still on 1.13.2, since I'm not on OS 11 yet and I believe 1.13.2 
is the latest for 10.anything. I find lots of formatting problems in 
markdown, including the need to add extra blank lines to get one to 
show up.


I’m on OS X 10.14.6 and currently on MailMate Version 1.14 (5820). 
Option + clicking on “check for update” in the MailMate menu 
offers me version 5845 which I’ll download shortly.


I can see in the release notes for 5845 the following under 
“Coding/Bulding related changes”:


“Requires macOS 10.12 (previously public release required 10.10).”


I just tried to check for an update but received the error "SSL 
certificate problem: certificate has expired", which might explain why I 
wasn't aware there was anything newer.



--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Markdown formatting

[Randall Gellens]

On 9 Nov 2021, at 9:52, Steve Hodgson wrote:


I’m running Version 1.14 (5843). Seems ok today.


I'm still on 1.13.2, since I'm not on OS 11 yet and I believe 1.13.2 is 
the latest for 10.anything. I find lots of formatting problems in 
markdown, including the need to add extra blank lines to get one to show 
up.


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Re: [MlMt] Filter(?) Message is moved to trash

[Randall Gellens]

On 9 Nov 2021, at 1:47, Fabian Blechschmidt wrote:


Good morning!

I have the problem, that a message is moved to Trash. Every time I 
move it back, it is moved into Trash again.


I can’t find a rule that explains that (neither on Mailmate nor on 
on server) and neither on the message, nor on the source or the 
activity viewer I can find any type of log, why this happens.


Is there anything which helps me to debug this? I searched through the 
mailing list, because I was sure I read something about it, but 
couldn’t find it.


Unfortunately, MailMate doesn't seem to log rule evaluations or actions, 
which would be terrifically helpful.


One thing I've resorted to is opening the file 'Library/Application 
Support/MailMate/Mailboxes.plist' in a text editor and looking for lines 
that have "trash", for example:


actions = (
{   mailbox = "trash";
type = "moveMessage";
},

This indicates a rule that moves a message to the trash. A line or so 
down there will be a line that contains


description = "foo";

Whatever is in quotes ("foo" in the example above) is the name of the 
rule. Look for a line with "filter =", this contains the actual rules of 
the filter (but you can more easily understand it by looking in the 
MailMate app at the "Rules" for the mailbox, and finding the rule with 
the same description. To find the mailbox that holds this rule, look for 
the closing ")" of the "rules = (".  It might be after a line such as:


);

That is, three tab characters, a close parenthesis and a semicolon. 
Following that should be the mailbox UUID (unique identifier), which is 
of the form


uuid = "imap://myuser@mymailserver/Inbox";

The part at the end is the name of the mailbox ("Inbox" in the example 
above).  The part after "imap://" is the account info for the IMAP mail 
server.



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[MlMt] Rule triggers but "move message" skipped

[Randall Gellens]

I often find messages that were processed by a rule in which actions of 
the rule such as adding a tag were done but a move message action was 
not, leaving the message in the wrong mailbox.  In one of my accounts, 
when this happens the messages stay in the Inbox.  In another of my 
accounts, the messages get moved to a catch-all mailbox.  The really odd 
thing about the behavior in this account is that all of the rules that 
move messages into mailboxes other than the catch-all mailbox add a tag 
that indicates they've been filed.  The messages that end up erroneously 
moved to the catch-all mailbox have this tag, which indicates they've 
been acted on by a rule that moved them elsewhere.  The the rule that 
moves messages into the catch-all mailbox has as one of its conditions a 
test that this tag does not appear.  So the messages are marked that 
they've been acted on by a rule that moved them elsewhere, and are moved 
by a rule that isn't supposed to act on messages so marked.  When I see 
such misfiled messages in the catch-all mailbox, I drag them to the 
Inbox for that account, whereupon they get correctly filed.  I wonder if 
there's some kind of timing hole that causes rules to act incorrectly?  
Or maybe some interaction between rules that I'm not taking into 
account?


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Machine specific header

[Randall Gellens]

One option to consider might be to Bcc messages from that account to a 
mailbox, and use that mailbox instead of "Sent".


--Randall

On 29 Jul 2021, at 4:29, MM_Arc wrote:


Randall,

Thanks for the hint, but since I’m looking at the “Sent” mailbox 
these have not been sent by the server.


So I fear I’ll have to dig into the other options

Regards

Marc

On 28 Jul 2021, at 23:52, Randall Gellens wrote:

Many mail servers add an initial 'Received' header field indicating 
the IP address from which the message was received.  Does your mail 
server do this or can it be configured to do so?  Or perhaps you want 
a host name and not an IP address?


--Randall

On 27 Jul 2021, at 3:24, MM_Arc wrote:


Hello,

At the office we are handling info-account with a number of users.

At rare occasions the need arises to be able to tell which 
workstation did send the mail . . .


So I’m wondering if there is a possibility to configure/add/set a 
specific header/tag based on the MM installation.


Thanks in advance,



Marc

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Re: [MlMt] Machine specific header

[Randall Gellens]

Many mail servers add an initial 'Received' header field indicating the 
IP address from which the message was received.  Does your mail server 
do this or can it be configured to do so?  Or perhaps you want a host 
name and not an IP address?


--Randall

On 27 Jul 2021, at 3:24, MM_Arc wrote:


Hello,

At the office we are handling info-account with a number of users.

At rare occasions the need arises to be able to tell which workstation 
did send the mail . . .


So I’m wondering if there is a possibility to configure/add/set a 
specific header/tag based on the MM installation.


Thanks in advance,



Marc

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Re: [MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?

[Randall Gellens]

The mailboxes do show up in an LSUB command.  But I just realized why MM 
wasn't seeing them.  In a case of brain fade, I forgot that the 
hierarchy separator character in this IMAP server isn't slash and I 
wasn't noticing that in the LIST and LSUB output all the other 
hierarchical mailboxes had a different delimiter character.  Manually 
TELNETting in and renaming them to use the correct hierarchy delimiter 
caused MM to see them.  I'm not sure if it's a bug that MM ignores a 
mailbox whose name contains a slash on a server where slash isn't the 
hierarchy delimiter.


Thanks for your help.

--Randall

On 5 May 2021, at 11:18, Bill Cole wrote:


On 2021-05-05 at 12:14:13 UTC-0400 (Wed, 05 May 2021 09:14:13 -0700)
Randall Gellens 
is rumored to have said:

The mailbox subscription pane stopped working at all, now it opens 
blank and just spins, never completing.


That's a real problem. Subscriptions are a basic IMAP feature and it 
should never be slow to get a response to a LSUB command.   
Unfortunately, MM doesn't log that pane's activity.


I now think the subscription list is immaterial, because checking the 
sources.plist file, I don't see any source that has a subscription 
list instead, each source has an unsubscribed list, which is empty 
for all sources except one.  All sources except that one contain:


clientUnsubscribedMailboxNames = ( );


I believe that is a red herring. That array seems to just be a way of 
maintaining exclusions from the server-side subscription list.


Every time I take an account offline and back online, MM connects as 
many sessions as it is set to for that source (3 by default) and on 
one of them it issues a NAMESPACE command followed by a LSUB command 
for each namespace. That provides what it needs to build its active 
source list, which is stored NOT in Sources.plist, but in 
Mailboxes.plist. I see no wildcard LIST commands used for sources 
using Dovecot, GMail, or CGP IMAP servers.


I suppose I could manually add the missing mailboxes to the 
mailboxes.plist file, but that seems fraught with potential errors.


I don't see much risk, since all you would want to manually add for a 
new source mailbox is a dictionary at the right level with the 
'previousUUID' and 'uuid' keys in MM's pseudo-URL format, being sure 
to fix the 'previousUUID' key of the relevant  existing one if you 
want to insert above the end of the list. The only potential errors I 
see are typos or getting the 'previousUUID' linkage wrong.





--Randall

On 4 May 2021, at 10:08, Randall Gellens wrote:

The mailboxes are there and show up in a standard IMAP LIST command. 
 I just can't seem to get MM to do that.  I haven't been able to see 
anything odd in the Activity Viewer, but I don't see MM ever issuing 
a LIST command.


--Randall

On 4 May 2021, at 7:16, Bill Cole wrote:

On 2021-05-03 at 10:34:12 UTC-0400 (Mon, 03 May 2021 07:34:12 
-0700)

Randall Gellens 
is rumored to have said:


On 2 May 2021, at 18:43, Bill Cole wrote:


On 2 May 2021, at 20:01, Randall Gellens wrote:

Thanks, I'd forgotten about subscriptions.  But where do I set 
it?  The Edit IMAP Account setting is only one pane, with no 
mention of subscriptions.  I've hunted through the menus.


You don't see an "Edit Subscriptions" button in the center 
section under the other IMAP Server settings?


Ah, thank you, it's there but I missed it.

However, the new mailboxes aren't in the list.


That's where I would start examining the IMAP sessions in MM's 
Activity Viewer and/or running manual IMAP sessions with something 
like the OpenSSL s_client tool. Maybe also check the IMAP server to 
make sure that it is recognizing the manually-created mailboxes. 
E.g. for Dovecot & Courier (and maybe all Maildir++ 
implementations?) there must be a zero-length file named 
maildirfolder and cur/new/tmp subdirectories in every maildir.


--
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b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
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Re: [MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?

[Randall Gellens]

The mailbox subscription pane stopped working at all, now it opens blank 
and just spins, never completing.


I now think the subscription list is immaterial, because checking the 
sources.plist file, I don't see any source that has a subscription list 
instead, each source has an unsubscribed list, which is empty for all 
sources except one.  All sources except that one contain:


clientUnsubscribedMailboxNames = ( );

I suppose I could manually add the missing mailboxes to the 
mailboxes.plist file, but that seems fraught with potential errors.


--Randall

On 4 May 2021, at 10:08, Randall Gellens wrote:

The mailboxes are there and show up in a standard IMAP LIST command.  
I just can't seem to get MM to do that.  I haven't been able to see 
anything odd in the Activity Viewer, but I don't see MM ever issuing a 
LIST command.


--Randall

On 4 May 2021, at 7:16, Bill Cole wrote:


On 2021-05-03 at 10:34:12 UTC-0400 (Mon, 03 May 2021 07:34:12 -0700)
Randall Gellens 
is rumored to have said:


On 2 May 2021, at 18:43, Bill Cole wrote:


On 2 May 2021, at 20:01, Randall Gellens wrote:

Thanks, I'd forgotten about subscriptions.  But where do I set it? 
 The Edit IMAP Account setting is only one pane, with no mention 
of subscriptions.  I've hunted through the menus.


You don't see an "Edit Subscriptions" button in the center section 
under the other IMAP Server settings?


Ah, thank you, it's there but I missed it.

However, the new mailboxes aren't in the list.


That's where I would start examining the IMAP sessions in MM's 
Activity Viewer and/or running manual IMAP sessions with something 
like the OpenSSL s_client tool. Maybe also check the IMAP server to 
make sure that it is recognizing the manually-created mailboxes. E.g. 
for Dovecot & Courier (and maybe all Maildir++ implementations?) 
there must be a zero-length file named maildirfolder and cur/new/tmp 
subdirectories in every maildir.


--
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b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
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Re: [MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?

[Randall Gellens]

The mailboxes are there and show up in a standard IMAP LIST command.  I 
just can't seem to get MM to do that.  I haven't been able to see 
anything odd in the Activity Viewer, but I don't see MM ever issuing a 
LIST command.


--Randall

On 4 May 2021, at 7:16, Bill Cole wrote:


On 2021-05-03 at 10:34:12 UTC-0400 (Mon, 03 May 2021 07:34:12 -0700)
Randall Gellens 
is rumored to have said:


On 2 May 2021, at 18:43, Bill Cole wrote:


On 2 May 2021, at 20:01, Randall Gellens wrote:

Thanks, I'd forgotten about subscriptions.  But where do I set it?  
The Edit IMAP Account setting is only one pane, with no mention of 
subscriptions.  I've hunted through the menus.


You don't see an "Edit Subscriptions" button in the center section 
under the other IMAP Server settings?


Ah, thank you, it's there but I missed it.

However, the new mailboxes aren't in the list.


That's where I would start examining the IMAP sessions in MM's 
Activity Viewer and/or running manual IMAP sessions with something 
like the OpenSSL s_client tool. Maybe also check the IMAP server to 
make sure that it is recognizing the manually-created mailboxes. E.g. 
for Dovecot & Courier (and maybe all Maildir++ implementations?) there 
must be a zero-length file named maildirfolder and cur/new/tmp 
subdirectories in every maildir.


--
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b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
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Re: [MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?

[Randall Gellens]

On 2 May 2021, at 18:43, Bill Cole wrote:


On 2 May 2021, at 20:01, Randall Gellens wrote:

Thanks, I'd forgotten about subscriptions.  But where do I set it?  
The Edit IMAP Account setting is only one pane, with no mention of 
subscriptions.  I've hunted through the menus.


You don't see an "Edit Subscriptions" button in the center section 
under the other IMAP Server settings?


Ah, thank you, it's there but I missed it.

However, the new mailboxes aren't in the list.
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Re: [MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?

[Randall Gellens]

Thanks, I'd forgotten about subscriptions.  But where do I set it?  The 
Edit IMAP Account setting is only one pane, with no mention of 
subscriptions.  I've hunted through the menus.


--Randall

On 2 May 2021, at 14:01, Bill Cole wrote:


On 2 May 2021, at 15:44, Randall Gellens wrote:

I'm using Mailmate version 1.13.2 (5673) on High Sierra 10.13.6.  I 
tried to organize some messages by creating a new IMAP mailbox and 
moving messages from a virtual mailbox into it, but Mailmate kept 
reporting IMAP errors.  So I quit Mailmate and used Telnet to 
manually create two mailboxes under a new mailbox and copy the 
messages it them.  No matter what I try, I can't get Mailmate to see 
these new mailboxes.


You need to edit the IMAP subscriptions list via the 'Mailbox->Edit 
IMAP Account...' command.


--
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[MlMt] Re-fetch mailbox list?

[Randall Gellens]

I'm using Mailmate version 1.13.2 (5673) on High Sierra 10.13.6.  I 
tried to organize some messages by creating a new IMAP mailbox and 
moving messages from a virtual mailbox into it, but Mailmate kept 
reporting IMAP errors.  So I quit Mailmate and used Telnet to manually 
create two mailboxes under a new mailbox and copy the messages it them.  
No matter what I try, I can't get Mailmate to see these new mailboxes.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Rules sometimes don't move messages

[Randall Gellens]

On 23 Mar 2021, at 9:36, Robert Goldman wrote:


On 23 Mar 2021, at 11:13, Randall Gellens wrote:

I'm running Mailmate version 1.13.2 (5673), which I think is the 
latest release version.  One of my rules adds a tag and moves the 
message to a different IMAP folder.  Lately, I've noticed that it 
unpredictably and randomly but repeatedly fails to perform the move.  
It does apply the tag, so I know it activated.  I don't see any 
errors in the Activity Viewer, but the errors might have been hours 
ago.  I checked /tmp/mailmate_logs, but the only file there is 
mailmate_parser_problems.log which reports some non-compliant message 
content.


I'm also having real problems with rules lately.  I absolutely have 
not been able to add rules that work, although most of my old rules 
seem to work.  I'd be *very, very* grateful if someone could post a 
HOWTO about rule debugging.


My previous approach was to make rules that would set flags, so that I 
could interactively tell if they were working, but now I have been 
having problems where rules will stop working when I add a conjunct, 
and not restore operation when I remove it.


You could try creating a new rule, as a test.

Are there files that we can examine to get a sense of what might be 
going wrong?


Not that I am aware of.  One trick you can do is use Edit -> Find -> 
Mailbox Search to manually create the exact conditions that are in the 
rule, and see if the search finds the messages you expect.


Am I right in thinking that the `Mailboxes.plist` file in 
`~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/` is where all the rules are 
stored?


Yes, that's where they are.  If you create a new rule and that works, 
you can look at both in the plist file and see if you can find any 
differences.


Is there some logging we could turn on to see when rules succeed at 
matching or fail?


Not that I am aware of.

--Randall
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[MlMt] Rules sometimes don't move messages

[Randall Gellens]

I'm running Mailmate version 1.13.2 (5673), which I think is the latest 
release version.  One of my rules adds a tag and moves the message to a 
different IMAP folder.  Lately, I've noticed that it unpredictably and 
randomly but repeatedly fails to perform the move.  It does apply the 
tag, so I know it activated.  I don't see any errors in the Activity 
Viewer, but the errors might have been hours ago.  I checked 
/tmp/mailmate_logs, but the only file there is 
mailmate_parser_problems.log which reports some non-compliant message 
content.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Finding rules

[Randall Gellens]

I've mentioned before that finding a rule that acted on a message can be 
quite frustrating, and I've sung the praises for the old Mac Eudora's 
feature that allowed one to select one or more messages and then see the 
rules that would operate on them.  Mac Eudora had a menu item that 
showed all rules, allowed editing/copying/deleting them.  Holding down a 
bucky bit (I think it was "option") when clicking this menu item with 
one or more messages selected opened the window and highlighted the 
rules that matched the selected message(s).  Super handy.


--Randall

On 25 Nov 2020, at 12:04, Glenn Parker wrote:


On 25 Nov 2020, at 13:14, Charlie Clark wrote:


On 25 Nov 2020, at 16:18, Glenn Parker wrote:

Rules are stored in ~/Library/Application\\ 
Support/MailMate/Mailboxes.plist


You can open it with TextEdit and search for “rule”. Probably 
safest to do this when MailMate is not running, or make a copy of 
the file to play around with.


Yes, I worked that out. Looks like it's a form of JSON, so I can 
probably write something to work with it. I can sort of understand 
why it's not accessible in another way from within MailMate but I 
think it could be useful to see filters / rules together.


I wasn’t thinking you would do any serious editing in TextEdit. This 
will allow you to find the location of the rule, after which you can 
go back to editing it inside MailMate as usual.


Glenn P. Parker
glenn.par...@comcast.net
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Re: [MlMt] Attachments column keeps disappearing

[Randall Gellens]

On 4 Sep 2020, at 19:38, Bill Cole wrote:


On 4 Sep 2020, at 22:01, Randall Gellens wrote:

I've noticed that the 'Attachments' column vanishes when I switch to 
a different mailbox and then back.  Mailmate 1.13.2 (5673).  Is this 
a bug or a setting I've gotten wrong?  I use 
View->Columns->Attachments to turn it on, but it gets turned off when 
I switch mailboxes.


This sounds like yet another manifestation of the long-lived bug 2045: 
https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672-mailmate/tickets/2045


Thanks.  Does seem to be the same bug.  The 'defaults delete 
com.freron.MailMate MmMailboxRelatedStates' suggested there has fixed 
it.


--Randall

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[MlMt] Attachments column keeps disappearing

[Randall Gellens]

I've noticed that the 'Attachments' column vanishes when I switch to a 
different mailbox and then back.  Mailmate 1.13.2 (5673).  Is this a bug 
or a setting I've gotten wrong?  I use View->Columns->Attachments to 
turn it on, but it gets turned off when I switch mailboxes.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Sort by time/date received rather than 'Date:' header field?

[Randall Gellens]

I have 'Date Received' as a column, but didn't think to click it.  
Thanks, Pete.


--Randall

On 31 Aug 2020, at 15:08, Pete Resnick wrote:

Right-click on the columns and show "Date Received" instead of "Date 
Sent". Or show both. Click on "Date Received" to sort by it.


pr
--
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All connections to the world are tenuous at best

On 31 Aug 2020, at 17:06, Randall Gellens wrote:

My server uses graylisting, so messages are sometimes delayed for 
anywhere from a few minutes to multiple hours (depending on the 
sending server's behavior).  MailMate seems to always sort by the 
'Date:' header field.  As a result, I often notice that a message has 
appeared above the messages I think I'm aware of.  I find this 
annoying.  Is there a way to have a mailbox view show messages in the 
order they arrived?


--Randall
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[MlMt] Sort by time/date received rather than 'Date:' header field?

[Randall Gellens]

My server uses graylisting, so messages are sometimes delayed for 
anywhere from a few minutes to multiple hours (depending on the sending 
server's behavior).  MailMate seems to always sort by the 'Date:' header 
field.  As a result, I often notice that a message has appeared above 
the messages I think I'm aware of.  I find this annoying.  Is there a 
way to have a mailbox view show messages in the order they arrived?


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] pasting text from Word into a message

[Randall Gellens]

On 30 Aug 2020, at 19:56, Patrik Fältström via mailmate wrote:

Randall, you should know this better than me, but it is when pasting 
you choose which one of the buffers one should get data from, not when 
copying. Right?


Yes, "paste as" works everywhere I'm aware of, so is probably the best 
choice here.  I only mentioned the "copy as" possibility because I 
thought it might be easier to configure a command to do it, and at least 
my version of Word and a few other apps I use allow choosing when 
copying.  For example, my version of OmniGraffle offers a regular copy 
and also copy as PDF, PNG, TIFF, SVG, AppleScript, and JavaScript.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Can I view account password?

[Randall Gellens]

The Spark login for Hotmail doesn’t allow any “reset password” 
feature. So I may need to reset it in some other client where I can 
configure a new password in 1Password, which will keep a record of it, 
then use that to login to Hotmail in Spark.


Normally, password resets are done at the mail provider using a web 
browser, not in an email client.  Can you go to hotmail.com and reset 
your password there?


--Randall

On 30 Aug 2020, at 14:24, Thomas Bartlett via mailmate wrote:


Thanks for the thoughts. See my interlinear responses below.


On Aug 30, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Sam Hathaway 
 wrote:


On 30 Aug 2020, at 4:55, Thomas Bartlett via mailmate wrote:


"com.apple.Exchange.oath-refresh-token."


Thomas,

You mean, “oauth-refresh-token”, right?


Yes. You’re right.



If your account is using OAuth, your mail client won’t store the 
account password.


The keychain items that MailMate stores for my GMail account (which 
uses OAuth) are:


com.freron.MailMate.Google.oauth-token
com.freron.MailMate.Google.oauth-refresh-token

Neither of these contain my GMail password.

By contrast, for my FastMail account (which uses application 
passwords), MailMate stores these items in the keychain:


imap.fastmail.com
smtp.fastmail.com


MailMate shows the server addresses for all seven of my email 
accounts.


These both contain the FastMail application password for my account.


MailMate only shows the password for my Yahoo account, not for the two 
Gmails, the iCloud.com , the Outlook, the Hotmail, 
my employer’s Exchange account.


Basically, if your provider uses OAuth, you’re SOL any you’ll 
probably have to reset your password.

-sam

P.S.: Why do you have so many email clients?! XD


Thanks for the explanation about OAuth, which I didn’t know but 
answers a long-standing question in my mind. Is four email clients 
really very many to have installed?  Anyway, I sort of drifted into 
trying out new ones, not being fully satisfied with any of them. And I 
sometimes find that one or another behaves eccentrically so drop it 
and go to another one.  I used MS Outlook on my PC for about 15 years 
and liked its Address Book very much. Then I moved to Mac OS platform 
and took up Mail, which I found inferior.  Then someone recommended 
MailMate, which does some things much better than Mail, but is 
sometimes complex beyond my level of expertise, as in the present case 
about passwords. Then someone recommended Spark, which is fine when 
working right, but it can be devilishly recalcitrant to configure.  
And, when I got Office 365 for Mac, it came with an improved MS 
Outlook, which has the advantage of working more seamlessly with the 
Microsoft Outlook mail and Hotmail. I have a 1TB solid state drive 
which is less than half full, so reduplication of downloaded mail 
isn’t a problem (yet).  Yes, it’s sometimes tedious to keep all of 
my accounts functioning properly in all four clients.  But right now, 
except for Hotmail in Spark, everything else is behaving as expected. 
The Spark login for Hotmail doesn’t allow any “reset password” 
feature. So I may need to reset it in some other client where I can 
configure a new password in 1Password, which will keep a record of it, 
then use that to login to Hotmail in Spark.


Thomas




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Re: [MlMt] pasting text from Word into a message

[Randall Gellens]

Is there perhaps an option in Word to copy as text? My version of Word 
has some "copy as..." options.


--Randall

On 29 Aug 2020, at 0:19, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 28 Aug 2020, at 23:43, Shoshanna Green wrote:

I'm running version 1.13.2 (5712), and when I copy text in Word and 
paste it into a message composer window, it turns into an attached 
.png image rather than text.


I'm pretty sure that only happens because Word puts a png on the 
pasteboard as an alternative to the text. I guess that's a feature, 
but it's a bit weird...



(Whereas if I copy text from
TextEdit, it pastes into a message correctly.) If I paste text from 
Word as quoted text, with command-option-V, it does paste as text; 
but then I have to un-quote and reflow it.


I know Word is the devil, but it's the unavoidable devil. How can I 
paste text from it into a message I'm composing? Or is this another 
in-progress feature/issue?


It's not a known issue, but it might be tricky to fix without breaking 
something else. I think the best is probably to add an explicit 
shortcut for pasting as text allowing the user to force MailMate to 
pick the text alternative. That would likely be ⌥⇧⌘V. I'll make 
a note of that.


--
Benny
https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/
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Re: [MlMt] Paragraphs

[Randall Gellens]

I forgot to mention that I tried the obvious:

~~~html
first paragraph
Next para
etc.
~~~

But it leaves the  and  tags in, which looks really awful.

--Randall

On 22 Aug 2020, at 15:50, Randall Gellens wrote:

I'm using Mailmate 1.13.1 (5671), which I think is the latest released 
version.  Sometimes, in Markdown mode, paragraphs are collapsed 
together.  Sometimes, adding additional blank lines between what I 
intend to be a paragraph fixes it, but other times not (likely 
depending on what other formatting I've done or attempted).  If I 
insert:


~~~html
~~~

in between my paragraphs, that kludges it, by inserting a normal blank 
line and then a blank HTML line in between.  It's ugly, but not as bad 
as no blank line.


--Randall
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[MlMt] Paragraphs

[Randall Gellens]

I'm using Mailmate 1.13.1 (5671), which I think is the latest released 
version.  Sometimes, in Markdown mode, paragraphs are collapsed 
together.  Sometimes, adding additional blank lines between what I 
intend to be a paragraph fixes it, but other times not (likely depending 
on what other formatting I've done or attempted).  If I insert:


~~~html
~~~

in between my paragraphs, that kludges it, by inserting a normal blank 
line and then a blank HTML line in between.  It's ugly, but not as bad 
as no blank line.


--Randall
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[MlMt] MM keeps re-asking for password

[Randall Gellens]

MailMate 1.13.1 on OS 10.13.6.

Most of my accounts are set up with a server address of 1.27.0.0.1, 
which uses an SSH tunnel to connect to the mail server.  Other accounts, 
including iCloud mail, go directly (not via the SSH tunnel).  All 
passwords are saved in the keychain.  Starting a few days ago, for some 
reason the SSH connection drops after a few hours, always while the 
machine running MM is idle (e.g., overnight or when I am out of the room 
for a few hours).  I haven't yet figured out why the SSH connection 
keeps dropping, but the only effect of that should be that MM loses 
connectivity with the server for the accounts that need the SSH tunnel.  
However, whenever I return to the machine and the tunnel has dropped, MM 
has a dialog box up asking me to re-enter the (app-specific) iCloud 
account password.  I put it in, check the box to save it in the 
keychain, and MM is happy until the next time the SSH connection drops.


The dialog says:

Enter password for “...” at “imap.mail.me.com”

Password does not exist in keychain.

	Note: If you use two-step verification or two-factor authentication 
then you probably need an application specific password.


https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204397

Please enter password for user name “...”.

--Randall

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Re: [MlMt] Response/forward chase

[Randall Gellens]

On 7 Jul 2020, at 10:04, aisrael wrote:

After I reply to an email, or forward it to someone else, I move these 
messages to mailboxes which are not necesssarily identical to the one 
where the original message is located (especially when the original 
message is still in the Inbox). How can I access these messages, 
starting from the original message? When I click twice on the straight 
or curved arrow that indicates the message has been answered or 
forwarded, I do not access anything (except, apparently,  when the 
reply is still located in the Reply mailbox).  Am I doing anything 
wrong?


Perhaps you want to create a "smart" mailbox that includes messages in 
both mailboxes (e.g., both the Inbox and the mailbox to which you move 
the message).  If you view messages in the "smart" mailbox, see if that 
shows the full thread.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Replicating Hey.com Features with MailMate

[Randall Gellens]

I don't know all that much about Hey.com, but Eudora had a very useful 
command "Make Filter".  It made it super easy to create a filter (a 
rule) based on the selected message(s).  Here's a shot:


![](cid:57686BA3-3E72-47C4-9025-AA2E3E5DDA07@randy.pensive.org 
"PastedImage.png")


It pre-filled the fields based on the selected message(s), and suggested 
a name for the "Transfer to new mailbox" choice.  Super handy.



--Randall

On 16 Jun 2020, at 2:22, Andrew Canion wrote:


Hi All,

I’ve written a post that might be of interest to the members of this 
list, describing how I have replicated many of the features of the new 
hey.com service in MailMate.


I hope this is considered on-topic for the list - apologies if not.

https://blog.andrewcanion.com/2020/06/16/replicating-heycom-features.html


Andrew Canion
and...@andrewcanion.com
andrewcanion.com
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Re: [MlMt] “Contains both $Junk and $NotJunk flags”

[Randall Gellens]

On 29 Jun 2020, at 12:17, Dave C wrote:

1. I deleted them then emptied the Deleted Messages folder by 
selecting all and pressing Delete key. They’re gone.


In theory, that should fix it, but it's possible the server didn't do 
the EXPUNGE because of the error.  The logs would show what the MailMate 
command was and how the server responded, and if the messages are still 
there or not.




2. Why is changing the flags on the messages more effective than 
deleting them?


Because the error is that both flags are set, which is not permitted, 
and which your server is enforcing (many servers ignore it).  If you 
reset one or both flags on the messages that have both, you immediately 
fix the problem.


If you take the account off line now, then put it back on line, force a 
resynchronization of all folders (including Deleted Messages), then 
search for messages with both flags, are any messages found?


--Randall



On 29 Jun 2020, at 10:03, Randall Gellens wrote:

When your search found four messages with both flags set, did you 
only delete them (which moves them to the Deleted folder) or did you 
also reset one or both flags?  The suggestion earlier was to search 
for messages that have both flags, then reset one or both flags on 
those messages, so that no messages have both flags.


--Randall

On 27 Jun 2020, at 20:26, Dave C wrote:


I took some time today to try to fix this.

I opened the log window and took the account online. I saw listed 
what I think are message numbers. One number matched a message which 
I deleted. The other one didn’t find a message.


I restarted MM and took that account online. Same results:

https://imgur.com/a/dmEFa5U

I did a “Mailbox Search” (Edit>Find) using criteria “Flag 
Contains $Junk” and “Flag Contains $NotJunk”.


This search turned up 4 or 5 messages which I deleted.

I restarted MM and took that account online. Same results.

Took it offline again.

Again I did a search with those same criteria. Zero messages. I 
looked for “$Junk” messages. Zero.


Not sure what to do next.

Thanks,
Dave


On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:51, Dave C wrote:


I get this error:
- - -
MailMate encountered the following error: “Server response: “I8 
BAD [CLIENTBUG] APPEND Contains both $Junk and $NotJunk 
flags”.”.

Mailbox: “Inbox”.
- - -
First question: What exactly is causing this error and how to fix 
it? “Try again” and “try later” simply result in repeated 
errors.


Second question: Why is this a fatal error? (I have to take the 
account off-line to get MM to continue). Shouldn’t this be an 
“informational” error and not cause the account to fail?


Thanks,
Dave

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Re: [MlMt] “Contains both $Junk and $NotJunk flags”

[Randall Gellens]

When your search found four messages with both flags set, did you only 
delete them (which moves them to the Deleted folder) or did you also 
reset one or both flags?  The suggestion earlier was to search for 
messages that have both flags, then reset one or both flags on those 
messages, so that no messages have both flags.


--Randall

On 27 Jun 2020, at 20:26, Dave C wrote:


I took some time today to try to fix this.

I opened the log window and took the account online. I saw listed what 
I think are message numbers. One number matched a message which I 
deleted. The other one didn’t find a message.


I restarted MM and took that account online. Same results:

https://imgur.com/a/dmEFa5U

I did a “Mailbox Search” (Edit>Find) using criteria “Flag 
Contains $Junk” and “Flag Contains $NotJunk”.


This search turned up 4 or 5 messages which I deleted.

I restarted MM and took that account online. Same results.

Took it offline again.

Again I did a search with those same criteria. Zero messages. I looked 
for “$Junk” messages. Zero.


Not sure what to do next.

Thanks,
Dave


On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:51, Dave C wrote:


I get this error:
- - -
MailMate encountered the following error: “Server response: “I8 
BAD [CLIENTBUG] APPEND Contains both $Junk and $NotJunk flags”.”.

Mailbox: “Inbox”.
- - -
First question: What exactly is causing this error and how to fix it? 
“Try again” and “try later” simply result in repeated errors.


Second question: Why is this a fatal error? (I have to take the 
account off-line to get MM to continue). Shouldn’t this be an 
“informational” error and not cause the account to fail?


Thanks,
Dave

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Re: [MlMt] URL in Subject -> no fast on-click filter possible

[Randall Gellens]

What is a one-click-filter?

--Randall

On 11 Jun 2020, at 8:51, Michael Nietzold wrote:


### when:

- i have a subject with a url inside:

  `Re: [alanshaw/david] https://david-dm.org is down (#163)`

- when i hoover over the subject the interesting part gets underlined

### what i see:

- when i click at any place there the url is opended


### what i expected

- when i click at any play the one-click-filter should activated (like 
on other subjects without a url)

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Re: [MlMt] Export and save

[Randall Gellens]

On 1 Jun 2020, at 8:47, aisrael wrote:

Thank you for all your answers, I will check these various apps, 
assuming they have a free trial version. Given the (very) high number 
of mails I have to keep, the efficiency of the Find function will be 
critical, as well as, if possible, the support of the hierarchical 
organisation of the mailboxes.


If you move your email to a new IMAP server (either one you run yourself 
or a service), then the hierarchy will be maintained provided you use an 
IMAP-to-IMAP import tool to move your mail.  As long as you use MailMate 
to access the mail, searching (finding) messages will be very quick, 
because MailMate builds local indexes.  If you want to sometimes use 
webmail or some other client that isn't MailMate and still want fast 
searching, then it's important to use an IMAP server (or service) that 
uses server-side indexing for fast searches.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Export and save

[Randall Gellens]

On 1 Jun 2020, at 7:52, aisrael wrote:

I know this has been treated repeatedly, but I can’t seem to find 
the relevant information : if my emails are deleted from the server 
(when I retire for example), how can I save all my mailboxes/emails 
locally (or on a server) in a searchable form, that would include the 
attachments?


I seem to remember there were commercial apps that can do that, but I 
don’t find the right info.


It depends on your interest and ability.  Once approach would be to run 
your own IMAP server, using a free or reasonably-priced server.  Another 
approach would be to find a new email provider that provides access via 
IMAP.  Once you've identified an IMAP server, you would use an IMAP 
import tool to move your email from your current IMAP server to your new 
one.


I'm in the process of setting up a new Dovecot IMAP server on a Mac 
Mini.  Dovecot is a free, open-source IMAP server.  It provides a robust 
IMAP transfer tool.


Dovecot:
https://www.dovecot.org

The tool to sync (or import) email:
https://wiki2.dovecot.org/Tools/Doveadm

However, these tools require familiarity with command lines.

--Randall
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[MlMt] Two suggestions to make working with rules easier

[Randall Gellens]

I have two suggestions that would make it easier to work with rules:

- Implement a "find" when viewing rules.  As an example, I have one rule 
that has maybe a hundred or two conditions.  I have to hunt through them 
manually to find one if I want to view or change it.  (I resort to 
opening the Mailboxes.plist file in BBEdit and viewing/editing there.)


- Implement a way that, when a message is selected, a command highlights 
the rules that did or would act on the message.  That can be a huge help 
when trying to figure out if a rule is or isn't working as expected.  
(Mac Eudora had this feature and it was super helpful.)


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] How do I ?

[Randall Gellens]

If I understand, you have a domain and have changed the provider that 
operates the IMAP and SMTP servers.  Your old provider still hosts all 
your old mail, but no longer accepts outbound mail.  Is that right?


Do you have two accounts, one with the old server settings to access 
your old mail, and one with the new server settings to access new mail 
and to send outbound mail?


So the problem is that when you read old email, a reply gets sent using 
the old SMTP server, which refuses it?


If I've understood, you have a few options.  One option would be to move 
all your old mail from your old IMAP server to your new one, and then 
delete your old account.


--Randall

On 20 May 2020, at 15:56, Annamarie Pluhar wrote:


Hi,

Asking for help rather than trying something out because I don’t 
want mess it up.


I moved a domain email to G Suites from my hosting provider 
Siteground. I get email fine. Sending is a problem because I can’t 
tell which of the email accounts I’m using in the “From” box : 
they both say annama...@sharinghousing.org. I don’t want to delete 
the Siteground account because I need the emails I got before the 
transfer. It’s a problem because if I choose the wrong one, the smtp 
server rejects it. As I write this.. Maybe I should simply put in the 
new smtp settings for the old account??? OR?  Can I fix the label in 
the from field somehow?


Hope this is clear. Thanks for help.

Annamarie

Annamarie Pluhar
802-451-1941
802-579-5975 (iPhone - not good when I'm at my desk.)
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Re: [MlMt] 2nd instance of MaiMate

[Randall Gellens]

I thought Marc wanted both instances running simultaneously (for 
example, one could be an active client applying rules and managing 
things more or less autonomously, while the other is used interactively 
for handling specific messages.)  To run multiple instances at the same 
time, I think a VM or separate machine or different user would work.  To 
run different instances serially (only one at a time), moving files back 
and forth via a script would work (Years back, I used a script that 
triggered when I switched Location, that killed the Retrospect daemon, 
renamed the active Retrospect configuration file to a specific name 
based on where it had come from, then renamed a Location-specific 
version of the Retrospect configuration file to be the active one.  It 
used extended file attributes to mark each file with the name of 
Location it went with.  That way, when I moved my laptop between home 
and work, the correct Retrospect configuration was active.)


--Randall

On 18 May 2020, at 16:54, Guillaume Barrette wrote:


Hi Randall,

   No, I was suggesting switching "profiles" between different 
MailMate opening.


Marc said that he wanted one instance handle its archive mailboxes and 
another one to its maintenance. So, I was saying to switch its data 
when he wants to do its maintenance and revert back for when he wants 
to do its normal stuff.


Therefore, that would be:

1. Run MailMate normally to do standard stuff
2. Close MailMate and move data
3. Open MailMate with new database and do the maintenance
4. Close MailMate and move back the data to return to normal stuff

Best,

--
Guillaume

On 18 May 2020, at 19:48, Randall Gellens wrote:


You're suggesting a script that:

(1) Runs MailMate
(2) Moves key files and folders while MailMate has them open
(3) Runs MailMate for second instance

Now there are two copies of MailMate running, one using the renamed 
files/folders, relying on file system semantics to keep the instances 
operating on the correct files?


When switching between apps (e.g., cmd-tab or Dock), how would one 
distinguish between the instances? Just the appearance of the viewer 
window?


--Randall

On 18 May 2020, at 7:46, Guillaume Barrette wrote:

Before seeing TJ's email, I thought of a manual solution, but now I 
think SwitchUp may be a better solution (less risky).


However, if you want to try, you can simply create a script (or do 
it manually) that would switch between 2 sets of MailMate associated 
files (data).


In short, you would need to switch the directories/files at:

- ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate
- ~/Library/Preferences/com.freron.MailMate.plist
- ~/Library/Caches/com.freron.MailMate
- ~/Library/Saved Application State/com.freron.MailMate.savedState

To do that, you can move them out or rename them and MailMate will 
create a new set when it starts again. Then you can switch between 
those 2 sets and you should get what you want (if I'm not missing a 
file).


So, I would say, I won't give you any guarantee, but if you feel 
confident in manipulating those files, you should be fine. Do a 
backup before and the first 2 directories should be the 2 most 
important since they are your data and the 2 others mainly some 
cached data.


Hope this helps!

Best,

--
Guillaume

On 18 May 2020, at 7:22, TJ Luoma wrote:


http://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/switchup/ was an application
designed to do just that: let you run multiple separate apps as the
same user.

It's no longer in active development, but seems to work fine in
Catalina. There's a 60-day trial on its website.

The only downside is that it's no longer in active development,
although it is still for sale.
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Re: [MlMt] 2nd instance of MaiMate

[Randall Gellens]

You're suggesting a script that:

(1) Runs MailMate
(2) Moves key files and folders while MailMate has them open
(3) Runs MailMate for second instance

Now there are two copies of MailMate running, one using the renamed 
files/folders, relying on file system semantics to keep the instances 
operating on the correct files?


When switching between apps (e.g., cmd-tab or Dock), how would one 
distinguish between the instances? Just the appearance of the viewer 
window?


--Randall

On 18 May 2020, at 7:46, Guillaume Barrette wrote:

Before seeing TJ's email, I thought of a manual solution, but now I 
think SwitchUp may be a better solution (less risky).


However, if you want to try, you can simply create a script (or do it 
manually) that would switch between 2 sets of MailMate associated 
files (data).


In short, you would need to switch the directories/files at:

- ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate
- ~/Library/Preferences/com.freron.MailMate.plist
- ~/Library/Caches/com.freron.MailMate
- ~/Library/Saved Application State/com.freron.MailMate.savedState

To do that, you can move them out or rename them and MailMate will 
create a new set when it starts again. Then you can switch between 
those 2 sets and you should get what you want (if I'm not missing a 
file).


So, I would say, I won't give you any guarantee, but if you feel 
confident in manipulating those files, you should be fine. Do a backup 
before and the first 2 directories should be the 2 most important 
since they are your data and the 2 others mainly some cached data.


Hope this helps!

Best,

--
Guillaume

On 18 May 2020, at 7:22, TJ Luoma wrote:


http://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/switchup/ was an application
designed to do just that: let you run multiple separate apps as the
same user.

It's no longer in active development, but seems to work fine in
Catalina. There's a 60-day trial on its website.

The only downside is that it's no longer in active development,
although it is still for sale.
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Re: [MlMt] AltaMail vs. Preside?

[Randall Gellens]

I nicely useful blog post, thanks for writing it and letting us know.  I 
especially appreciate the clear, early links to the app's privacy 
policies.


Just as an aside, you write "MailMate isn’t 'pretty.' Its interface is 
busy and dated-looking"  I am thoroughly sick of sleek and 
modern-looking interfaces that range from utterly useless to 
user-vicious.  It seems that every major web site and app has 
"modernized" their interface, making them clean, pretty, lots of empty 
space and pictures, at the cost of being able to see or do anything.


--Randall

On 14 May 2020, at 16:00, Bryce Wray wrote:


On 9 May 2020, at 12:07, Bryce Wray wrote:

A search of the list archives suggests that those of you seeking a 
MailMate-like experience on iOS have generally ended up with one of 
two apps, either AltaMail or Preside. I am trying both now—and, in 
the interests of full disclosure, wish to note that I plan to write a 
(totally unpaid-for) blog post about this subject—so I would 
appreciate knowing your feelings, if any, about each app **and** 
whether you’ve actually made either your go-to iOS mail app. *(Re 
the blog post: rest assured I would quote you by name* ***only*** *if 
you explicitly approve. I mainly just want to get a “sense of the 
room,” but would also appreciate some particularly cogent quotes if 
applicable.)*


Just following up to let you folks know that the blog post is now up 
at:

https://brycewray.com/posts/2020/05/battle-ios-email-heavyweights/

. . . and, as I note in the Acknowledgement at its end, I am **very** 
grateful to all of you who responded with your observations as 
requested. Many thanks! And please feel free to point out any errors 
you may find in the post. I’ll be more than happy to correct them.



Best wishes,

Bryce Wray
bw...@wraytx.com
https://brycewray.com
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Re: [MlMt] strikethrough

[Randall Gellens]

I resort to extracting the text into Word, editing there with change 
tracking enabled, then sending the Word document.  I've given up on 
Markdown in MailMate because most of the time what gets displayed in the 
preview doesn't match what I thought I was doing (e.g., italics preview 
as bold), and the copy of the message I get often doesn't look like the 
preview, so I can't rely on anything.


--Randall
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Re: [MlMt] Moving complete folder tree from one IMAP server to another

[Randall Gellens]

I haven't used Google's tools (and, speaking personally, Google is not 
the most standards-compliant organization, so I'd probably use them 
mostly for moving mail to or from Google rather than between non-Google 
systems), but I have used Dovecot's dsync tool to move between different 
IMAP servers.  See https://wiki2.dovecot.org/Migration/Dsync


--Randall

On 5 May 2020, at 11:47, Alexandre Takacs wrote:


Google Imapsync

Very powerful tool for this type of use.

On 5 May 2020, at 16:39, Fritz Slater via mailmate wrote:

I would like to move/copy a mailbox tree (i.e. mailboxes that contain 
other mailboxes) from one IMAP server account to another.  I tried 
just Option-drag and only the top mailbox was copied.  It is empty on 
the new server as it only contained other mailboxes.  How can I 
accomplish moving the entire tree?  Thanks.

-Jon
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A. Takacs
Augicom SA
+41 (22) 301 16 00
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