subject:"\[MOPO\] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception\?"

Hi Bruce,

First, it's another great testimonial to the service you provide, prior to
anyone bidding or buying (supersize enlargements), although to be fair,
your buyer who wrote you either has never bought from or visited the
Heritage, Cinemasterpieces sites (and now MPE), to name but 3, that offer
the enlarged images on their sites.

That being said, I wonder how much of a response you will get, at least
publicly, with regard to the question you posed about boosted colors being
a good marketing tool or a deceptive practice.

I presented this question on APF when images of the Heritage Berwick
posters began to appear on the HA site, once they had been washed, cleaned
and linen backed. It was (and is) very apparent that HA boosted the color
on many of those posters (to the point where some had the look of
oversaturated reprints).

In my comments and question, I repeatedly made mention of taking into
account differences in cameras used, lighting setups (or lack thereof) etc.
Some agreed and also made their own independent comments about this very
subject. Yet there were a handful, saying that NO boosting had been done,
how dare anyone accuse HA of doing such a thing and that kind of talk. No
one was suggesting that HA had committed any crime or murdered a newborn,
for goodness' sake, but that their photo dept had simply boosted and
saturated the poster images...lol

To this day (and that post was a week and a half ago), there has been no
response from HA directly about this color boosting question.

Because you asked for thoughts on this practice, I think that all poster
images should be presented as they actually look, battle scars and all
(unless restored and described as such). To present images of posters that
practically radiate off the page is deceptive, in the sense that they are
not a true representation, especially on high end items like the Berwick
Find. Not everyone can travel to Dallas to look at posters that HA auctions
(Berwick or others for that matter), so presenting an accurate image is
vital.

-Kerry





On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 4:59 AM, Bruce Hershenson
brucehershen...@gmail.comwrote:

 I received this e-mail from a customer yesterday:

 The  lobby card which I bought in the Tuesday February 14 auction arrived
 today in perfect condition, thanks to your superlative packing. I am
 delighted with the card, which is my favorite of all lobby cards. In fact,
 it actually looks even better in reality than in your scans, as the
 super-sized image brings up even the tiniest imperfection very clearly. I
 know nobody else who provides this enlargement service so you can see
 exactly what you are buying.

 I replied as follows:

 Thank you very much for your kind words! I have been buying through the
 mail for over 40 years, and I have always been amazed how many sellers
 would try to deceive you with poor quality photos that hide defects. Now,
 with modern day scanners, you can make scans that burn away defects
 (including even foldlines and pinholes), and people also use them to
 boost the colors of the item!

 Some people seem to feel this is just wise salesmanship, but to me it is
 both deceptive and thinking for the short term, because you may get the
 person to pay more *THIS *time, but you are likely to lose a customer
 when they see how they were deceived. The way I do things with honest
 images that show 'even the tiniest imperfection very clearly', as you put
 it, I know that I gain the customer's trust, and that they are likely to
 order again and again, so I think those auctions that have the other
 philosophy are being 'penny wise and pound foolish'.

 *What is YOUR **view on this?*

 --
 Bruce Hershenson and the other 24 members of the eMoviePoster.com team
 P.O. Box 874
 West Plains, MO 65775
 Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when we
 take lunch)
 our site http://www.emovieposter.com/
 our auctions http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html
 http://www.emovieposter.com/unused/signature/20111028Frankensteinemployeegroupphotosignature.jpg

  Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to:
 lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF
 MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.



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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

2012-03-03 Thread Richard C Evans

While I'd far rather sellers made a concerted effort to accurately represent 
lots, I can perhaps forgive a little tweak for improved presentation.

Though when something looks too vivid I think most collectors can easily spot 
it, so it seems a pointless exercise.

Besides, aren't collectors interested in paper that is actually old?

I'd just raised one particularly bad example on NSFGE.

I sold a Maltese Falcon Window card at Heritage a few years back. That one was, 
to my eye, accurately represented.

They're selling a superior example in the upcoming sale, and unless it's a 
particularly bizarre printing anomaly, they've seriously overdone it.

Terribly garish, reds look dayglo, lighter colours bleaching out.

They're really not doing the piece justice, it looks repulsive.

That said, and even leaving aside the Berwick lots, I think it's a particularly 
good and interesting sale.






On 3 Mar 2012, at 12:59, Bruce Hershenson wrote:

 I received this e-mail from a customer yesterday:
 
 The  lobby card which I bought in the Tuesday February 14 auction arrived 
 today in perfect condition, thanks to your superlative packing. I am 
 delighted with the card, which is my favorite of all lobby cards. In fact, it 
 actually looks even better in reality than in your scans, as the super-sized 
 image brings up even the tiniest imperfection very clearly. I know nobody 
 else who provides this enlargement service so you can see exactly what you 
 are buying.
 
 I replied as follows:
 
 Thank you very much for your kind words! I have been buying through the mail 
 for over 40 years, and I have always been amazed how many sellers would try 
 to deceive you with poor quality photos that hide defects. Now, with modern 
 day scanners, you can make scans that burn away defects (including even 
 foldlines and pinholes), and people also use them to boost the colors of 
 the item!
 
 Some people seem to feel this is just wise salesmanship, but to me it is both 
 deceptive and thinking for the short term, because you may get the person to 
 pay more THIS time, but you are likely to lose a customer when they see how 
 they were deceived. The way I do things with honest images that show 'even 
 the tiniest imperfection very clearly', as you put it, I know that I gain the 
 customer's trust, and that they are likely to order again and again, so I 
 think those auctions that have the other philosophy are being 'penny wise and 
 pound foolish'.
 
 What is YOUR view on this?
 
 -- 
 Bruce Hershenson and the other 24 members of the eMoviePoster.com team
 P.O. Box 874
 West Plains, MO 65775
 Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when we take 
 lunch)
 our site
 our auctions
 
 
 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
 ___
 How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
 Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
 In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
 The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
 



 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
   ___
  How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List

   Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L

The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

Kerry,

All super-sized images are not the same! Some *STILL *don't let you see
tiny imperfections like very small tears, faint smudges, etc. It has to do
with the technology of scanning and the settings on the scanner.

When I buy from anywhere online, I want what I see online to match what I
see when I open the package when the item arrives. If the online image
looked different, then to me that is deceitful.

Bruce

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 12:11 PM, lovenoir2 loveno...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Bruce,

First, it's another great testimonial to the service you provide, prior to
anyone bidding or buying (supersize enlargements), although to be fair,
your buyer who wrote you either has never bought from or visited the
Heritage, Cinemasterpieces sites (and now MPE), to name but 3, that offer
the enlarged images on their sites.

That being said, I wonder how much of a response you will get, at least
publicly, with regard to the question you posed about boosted colors being
a good marketing tool or a deceptive practice.

I presented this question on APF when images of the Heritage Berwick
posters began to appear on the HA site, once they had been washed, cleaned
and linen backed. It was (and is) very apparent that HA boosted the color
on many of those posters (to the point where some had the look of
oversaturated reprints).

In my comments and question, I repeatedly made mention of taking into
account differences in cameras used, lighting setups (or lack thereof) etc.
Some agreed and also made their own independent comments about this very
subject. Yet there were a handful, saying that NO boosting had been done,
how dare anyone accuse HA of doing such a thing and that kind of talk. No
one was suggesting that HA had committed any crime or murdered a newborn,
for goodness' sake, but that their photo dept had simply boosted and
saturated the poster images...lol

To this day (and that post was a week and a half ago), there has been no
response from HA directly about this color boosting question.

Because you asked for thoughts on this practice, I think that all poster
images should be presented as they actually look, battle scars and all
(unless restored and described as such). To present images of posters that
practically radiate off the page is deceptive, in the sense that they are
not a true representation, especially on high end items like the Berwick
Find. Not everyone can travel to Dallas to look at posters that HA auctions
(Berwick or others for that matter), so presenting an accurate image is
vital.

-Kerry

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 4:59 AM, Bruce Hershenson
brucehershen...@gmail.com wrote:

I received this e-mail from a customer yesterday:

The lobby card which I bought in the Tuesday February 14 auction
arrived today in perfect condition, thanks to your superlative packing. I
am delighted with the card, which is my favorite of all lobby cards. In
fact, it actually looks even better in reality than in your scans, as the
super-sized image brings up even the tiniest imperfection very clearly. I
know nobody else who provides this enlargement service so you can see
exactly what you are buying.

I replied as follows:

Thank you very much for your kind words! I have been buying through the
mail for over 40 years, and I have always been amazed how many sellers
would try to deceive you with poor quality photos that hide defects. Now,
with modern day scanners, you can make scans that burn away defects
(including even foldlines and pinholes), and people also use them to
boost the colors of the item!

Some people seem to feel this is just wise salesmanship, but to me it is
both deceptive and thinking for the short term, because you may get the
person to pay more *THIS *time, but you are likely to lose a customer
when they see how they were deceived. The way I do things with honest
images that show 'even the tiniest imperfection very clearly', as you put
it, I know that I gain the customer's trust, and that they are likely to
order again and again, so I think those auctions that have the other
philosophy are being 'penny wise and pound foolish'.

*What is YOUR **view on this?*

--
Bruce Hershenson and the other 24 members of the eMoviePoster.com team
P.O. Box 874
West Plains, MO 65775
Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when we
take lunch)
our site http://www.emovieposter.com/
our auctions http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html
http://www.emovieposter.com/unused/signature/20111028Frankensteinemployeegroupphotosignature.jpg

Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___ How
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to:
lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF
MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.

--
Bruce Hershenson and the other 24 members

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

I think Voltaire figured out a long time ago that nothing's perfect in this
best of all possible worlds. I think it's almost more important to give an
actual written description of the condition of the poster or lobby card
including any flaws. Simply showing a photo without pointing out things that
could easily be missed such as a light censor stamp or some light spotting
is being somewhat less than forthright. I can totally forgive the photo shop
color corrections because in many cases to not photo shop the photo will
result in a poster looking totally washed out or (worse yet) totally
browned, when in real life it is not. Provided there's a return policy for
dissatisfied buyers, I have no problem with correcting color in a photo shop
application.  FRANC 

-Original Message-
From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard C
Evans
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:22 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?


While I'd far rather sellers made a concerted effort to accurately represent
lots, I can perhaps forgive a little tweak for improved presentation. 

Though when something looks too vivid I think most collectors can easily
spot it, so it seems a pointless exercise.

Besides, aren't collectors interested in paper that is actually old?

I'd just raised one particularly bad example on NSFGE.

I sold a Maltese Falcon Window card at Heritage a few years back. That one
was, to my eye, accurately represented.

They're selling a superior example in the upcoming sale, and unless it's a
particularly bizarre printing anomaly, they've seriously overdone it.

Terribly garish, reds look dayglo, lighter colours bleaching out.

They're really not doing the piece justice, it looks repulsive.

That said, and even leaving aside the Berwick lots, I think it's a
particularly good and interesting sale.






On 3 Mar 2012, at 12:59, Bruce Hershenson wrote:


I received this e-mail from a customer yesterday:

The  lobby card which I bought in the Tuesday February 14 auction arrived
today in perfect condition, thanks to your superlative packing. I am
delighted with the card, which is my favorite of all lobby cards. In fact,
it actually looks even better in reality than in your scans, as the
super-sized image brings up even the tiniest imperfection very clearly. I
know nobody else who provides this enlargement service so you can see
exactly what you are buying.

I replied as follows:

Thank you very much for your kind words! I have been buying through the
mail for over 40 years, and I have always been amazed how many sellers would
try to deceive you with poor quality photos that hide defects. Now, with
modern day scanners, you can make scans that burn away defects (including
even foldlines and pinholes), and people also use them to boost the colors
of the item!

Some people seem to feel this is just wise salesmanship, but to me it is
both deceptive and thinking for the short term, because you may get the
person to pay more THIS time, but you are likely to lose a customer when
they see how they were deceived. The way I do things with honest images that
show 'even the tiniest imperfection very clearly', as you put it, I know
that I gain the customer's trust, and that they are likely to order again
and again, so I think those auctions that have the other philosophy are
being 'penny wise and pound foolish'.

What is YOUR view on this?

-- 
Bruce Hershenson and the other 24 members of the eMoviePoster.com team
P.O. Box 874
West Plains, MO 65775
Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when we take
lunch)
our site http://www.emovieposter.com/ 
our  http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html auctions
 
http://www.emovieposter.com/unused/signature/20111028Frankensteinemployeegr
oupphotosignature.jpg
http://www.emovieposter.com/unused/signature/20111028Frankensteinemployeegr
oupphotosignature.jpg 


Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.




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Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.




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In the BODY

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

Hi Bruce,

Yes, I agree, while not all supersize images are the same,  HA's hi
resolution, large images do allow for the viewing of imperfections, tiny
pin holes, smudges etc, wouldn't you agree? They have that process down,
all in all.

And as far as how a poster, WC etc looks upon arrival to one's home. It
certainly had better look as close to the online image as possible. I
couldn't agree with you more on this point, either.

-Kerry






On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Bruce Hershenson brucehershen...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Kerry,

 All super-sized images are not the same! Some *STILL *don't let you see
 tiny imperfections like very small tears, faint smudges, etc. It has to do
 with the technology of scanning and the settings on the scanner.

 When I buy from anywhere online, I want what I see online to match what I
 see when I open the package when the item arrives. If the online image
 looked different, then to me that is deceitful.

 Bruce


 On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 12:11 PM, lovenoir2 loveno...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Bruce,

 First, it's another great testimonial to the service you provide, prior
 to anyone bidding or buying (supersize enlargements), although to be fair,
 your buyer who wrote you either has never bought from or visited the
 Heritage, Cinemasterpieces sites (and now MPE), to name but 3, that offer
 the enlarged images on their sites.

 That being said, I wonder how much of a response you will get, at least
 publicly, with regard to the question you posed about boosted colors being
 a good marketing tool or a deceptive practice.

 I presented this question on APF when images of the Heritage Berwick
 posters began to appear on the HA site, once they had been washed, cleaned
 and linen backed. It was (and is) very apparent that HA boosted the color
 on many of those posters (to the point where some had the look of
 oversaturated reprints).

 In my comments and question, I repeatedly made mention of taking into
 account differences in cameras used, lighting setups (or lack thereof) etc.
 Some agreed and also made their own independent comments about this very
 subject. Yet there were a handful, saying that NO boosting had been done,
 how dare anyone accuse HA of doing such a thing and that kind of talk. No
 one was suggesting that HA had committed any crime or murdered a newborn,
 for goodness' sake, but that their photo dept had simply boosted and
 saturated the poster images...lol

 To this day (and that post was a week and a half ago), there has been no
 response from HA directly about this color boosting question.

 Because you asked for thoughts on this practice, I think that all poster
 images should be presented as they actually look, battle scars and all
 (unless restored and described as such). To present images of posters that
 practically radiate off the page is deceptive, in the sense that they are
 not a true representation, especially on high end items like the Berwick
 Find. Not everyone can travel to Dallas to look at posters that HA auctions
 (Berwick or others for that matter), so presenting an accurate image is
 vital.

 -Kerry





 On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 4:59 AM, Bruce Hershenson 
 brucehershen...@gmail.com wrote:

 I received this e-mail from a customer yesterday:

 The  lobby card which I bought in the Tuesday February 14 auction
 arrived today in perfect condition, thanks to your superlative packing. I
 am delighted with the card, which is my favorite of all lobby cards. In
 fact, it actually looks even better in reality than in your scans, as the
 super-sized image brings up even the tiniest imperfection very clearly. I
 know nobody else who provides this enlargement service so you can see
 exactly what you are buying.

 I replied as follows:

 Thank you very much for your kind words! I have been buying through the
 mail for over 40 years, and I have always been amazed how many sellers
 would try to deceive you with poor quality photos that hide defects. Now,
 with modern day scanners, you can make scans that burn away defects
 (including even foldlines and pinholes), and people also use them to
 boost the colors of the item!

 Some people seem to feel this is just wise salesmanship, but to me it is
 both deceptive and thinking for the short term, because you may get the
 person to pay more *THIS *time, but you are likely to lose a customer
 when they see how they were deceived. The way I do things with honest
 images that show 'even the tiniest imperfection very clearly', as you put
 it, I know that I gain the customer's trust, and that they are likely to
 order again and again, so I think those auctions that have the other
 philosophy are being 'penny wise and pound foolish'.

 *What is YOUR **view on this?*

 --
 Bruce Hershenson and the other 24 members of the eMoviePoster.com team
 P.O. Box 874
 West Plains, MO 65775
 Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when we
 take lunch)
 our site http://www.emovieposter.com/
 our auctions

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. And unless a
description is written in technical, bullet point fashion, pointing out
flaws, dings, rips (as well as it's positive aspects), a photo is 100%
crucial. No one would buy an item with only a paragraph of descriptive text
included.

As far as the comments made about the limitations in photography, you not
right here, Franc. Your example of a raw photo looking washed out or
totally browned would mean the initial photograph was taken (or lit)
incorrectly. A photographer who knows his craft would never turn over an
image such as you described, saying that it can be fixed in post. And if
they did, it would be the last thing he would shoot, if I had hired him.

If a poster has browned due to age or paper acid content, then show it--
dont artificially lighten it or the borders in photoshop. Many (including
myself), like to see the age and history of an item 70 or 80 years old. Who
wants it to look like it was printed yesterday?

And if there was, for example, a light censor stamp, that was difficult to
see, of course, that area should be a separate detail photo, tweaked with
and adjusted, to best show and see it. That, tho, is not a color boost
issue.

The question posed was regarding images that have been saturated or color
boosted; not how photoshop can best show possible imperfections or details
not seen readily.

-Kerry







On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Franc fdav...@verizon.net wrote:

 **
 I think Voltaire figured out a long time ago that nothing's perfect in
 this best of all possible worlds. I think it's almost more important to
 give an actual written description of the condition of the poster or lobby
 card including any flaws. Simply showing a photo without pointing out
 things that could easily be missed such as a light censor stamp or some
 light spotting is being somewhat less than forthright. I can totally
 forgive the photo shop color corrections because in many cases to not photo
 shop the photo will result in a poster looking totally washed out or (worse
 yet) totally browned, when in real life it is not. Provided there's a
 return policy for dissatisfied buyers, I have no problem with correcting
 color in a photo shop application.  FRANC

  -Original Message-
 *From:* MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Richard
 C Evans
 *Sent:* Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:22 PM
 *To:* MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
 *Subject:* Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
 deception?

 While I'd far rather sellers made a concerted effort to accurately
 represent lots, I can perhaps forgive a little tweak for improved
 presentation.

 Though when something looks too vivid I think most collectors can easily
 spot it, so it seems a pointless exercise.

 Besides, aren't collectors interested in paper that is actually old?

 I'd just raised one particularly bad example on NSFGE.

 I sold a Maltese Falcon Window card at Heritage a few years back. That one
 was, to my eye, accurately represented.

 They're selling a superior example in the upcoming sale, and unless it's a
 particularly bizarre printing anomaly, they've seriously overdone it.

 Terribly garish, reds look dayglo, lighter colours bleaching out.

 They're really not doing the piece justice, it looks repulsive.

 That said, and even leaving aside the Berwick lots, I think it's a
 particularly good and interesting sale.






  On 3 Mar 2012, at 12:59, Bruce Hershenson wrote:

 I received this e-mail from a customer yesterday:

 The  lobby card which I bought in the Tuesday February 14 auction arrived
 today in perfect condition, thanks to your superlative packing. I am
 delighted with the card, which is my favorite of all lobby cards. In fact,
 it actually looks even better in reality than in your scans, as the
 super-sized image brings up even the tiniest imperfection very clearly. I
 know nobody else who provides this enlargement service so you can see
 exactly what you are buying.

 I replied as follows:

 Thank you very much for your kind words! I have been buying through the
 mail for over 40 years, and I have always been amazed how many sellers
 would try to deceive you with poor quality photos that hide defects. Now,
 with modern day scanners, you can make scans that burn away defects
 (including even foldlines and pinholes), and people also use them to
 boost the colors of the item!

 Some people seem to feel this is just wise salesmanship, but to me it is
 both deceptive and thinking for the short term, because you may get the
 person to pay more *THIS *time, but you are likely to lose a customer
 when they see how they were deceived. The way I do things with honest
 images that show 'even the tiniest imperfection very clearly', as you put
 it, I know that I gain the customer's trust, and that they are likely to
 order again and again, so I think those auctions that have the other
 philosophy are being 'penny wise and pound

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

Get a grip. Someone selling $10 lobby cards isn't going to hire James Wong
Howe to shot his photos. So long as the photo is reasonable and the
decription is accurate, I don't need  to see an insert photo of every tiny
ding on the left edge. Life is too short.  FRANC

-Original Message-
From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of lovenoir2
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:59 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?

As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. And unless a
description is written in technical, bullet point fashion, pointing out
flaws, dings, rips (as well as it's positive aspects), a photo is 100%
crucial. No one would buy an item with only a paragraph of descriptive text
included. 

As far as the comments made about the limitations in photography, you not
right here, Franc. Your example of a raw photo looking washed out or totally
browned would mean the initial photograph was taken (or lit) incorrectly. A
photographer who knows his craft would never turn over an image such as you
described, saying that it can be fixed in post. And if they did, it would
be the last thing he would shoot, if I had hired him.

If a poster has browned due to age or paper acid content, then show it--
dont artificially lighten it or the borders in photoshop. Many (including
myself), like to see the age and history of an item 70 or 80 years old. Who
wants it to look like it was printed yesterday? 

And if there was, for example, a light censor stamp, that was difficult to
see, of course, that area should be a separate detail photo, tweaked with
and adjusted, to best show and see it. That, tho, is not a color boost
issue.

The question posed was regarding images that have been saturated or color
boosted; not how photoshop can best show possible imperfections or details
not seen readily.

-Kerry

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Franc fdav...@verizon.net wrote:

I think Voltaire figured out a long time ago that nothing's perfect in this
best of all possible worlds. I think it's almost more important to give an
actual written description of the condition of the poster or lobby card
including any flaws. Simply showing a photo without pointing out things that
could easily be missed such as a light censor stamp or some light spotting
is being somewhat less than forthright. I can totally forgive the photo shop
color corrections because in many cases to not photo shop the photo will
result in a poster looking totally washed out or (worse yet) totally
browned, when in real life it is not. Provided there's a return policy for
dissatisfied buyers, I have no problem with correcting color in a photo shop
application.  FRANC 

-Original Message-
From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard C
Evans
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:22 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?

While I'd far rather sellers made a concerted effort to accurately represent
lots, I can perhaps forgive a little tweak for improved presentation. 

Though when something looks too vivid I think most collectors can easily
spot it, so it seems a pointless exercise.

Besides, aren't collectors interested in paper that is actually old?

I'd just raised one particularly bad example on NSFGE.

I sold a Maltese Falcon Window card at Heritage a few years back. That one
was, to my eye, accurately represented.

They're selling a superior example in the upcoming sale, and unless it's a
particularly bizarre printing anomaly, they've seriously overdone it.

Terribly garish, reds look dayglo, lighter colours bleaching out.

They're really not doing the piece justice, it looks repulsive.

That said, and even leaving aside the Berwick lots, I think it's a
particularly good and interesting sale.

On 3 Mar 2012, at 12:59, Bruce Hershenson wrote:

I received this e-mail from a customer yesterday:

The  lobby card which I bought in the Tuesday February 14 auction arrived
today in perfect condition, thanks to your superlative packing. I am
delighted with the card, which is my favorite of all lobby cards. In fact,
it actually looks even better in reality than in your scans, as the
super-sized image brings up even the tiniest imperfection very clearly. I
know nobody else who provides this enlargement service so you can see
exactly what you are buying.

I replied as follows:

Thank you very much for your kind words! I have been buying through the
mail for over 40 years, and I have always been amazed how many sellers would
try to deceive you with poor quality photos that hide defects. Now, with
modern day scanners, you can make scans that burn away defects (including
even foldlines and pinholes), and people also use them to boost the colors
of the item!

Some people seem to feel this is just wise salesmanship, but to me it is
both deceptive

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

2012-03-03 Thread Jay Nemeth-Johannes

I posted on APF on this, that the boosting isn¹t necessarily intentional.
If you take Bruce¹s or Rich¹s photos and open them in Microsoft picture
manager or iPhoto on the Mac, select edit and then do autocorrect, you will
end up with an image with higher saturation and increased contrast.
Obviously both Microsoft and Apple believe that an accurate image is
somewhat hotter than an ANSI corrected image.

Further, your perception of the true appearance is influenced by a lot of
factors, not the least of which is the light you are viewing it under.
Bright light, dim light, incandescent, CFL, tube flourescent, daylight¹
flourescent, LED.  They are all going to make the picture pop¹ to varying
extents.

I am not sure I am willing to accuse Heritage of making the images too vivid
when it could simply be that they use the picture editor defaults for
corrections.
 
Jay Nemeth-Johannes
8901 N Rexleigh Dr 
Bayside, WI 53217 
(970) 290-9797 (Cell)
-- 

 
 
 -Original  Message-
 From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of  Richard
 C Evans
 Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:22  PM
 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
 Subject: Re:  [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
 deception?
 
 While I'd far rather sellers made a  concerted effort to accurately
 represent lots, I can perhaps forgive a  little tweak for improved
 presentation. 
 
  
 Though when something looks too vivid I think most  collectors can easily
 spot it, so it seems a pointless exercise.
  
 
  



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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

2012-03-03 Thread Robert Dennis

The color/contrast of the image you are viewing online is largely affected by 
the computer monitor you are viewing it with.

Robert

 From: Jay Nemeth-Johannes jay.johan...@smartsensorsystems.com
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU 
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception? 
I posted on APF on this, that the boosting isn’t necessarily intentional.  If 
you take Bruce’s or Rich’s photos and open them in Microsoft picture manager or 
iPhoto on the Mac, select edit and then do autocorrect, you will end up with an 
image with higher saturation and increased contrast.  Obviously both Microsoft 
and Apple believe that an accurate image is somewhat hotter than an ANSI 
corrected image.

Further, your perception of the true appearance is influenced by a lot of 
factors, not the least of which is the light you are viewing it under.  Bright 
light, dim light, incandescent, CFL, tube flourescent, ‘daylight’ flourescent, 
LED.  They are all going to make the picture ‘pop’ to varying extents.

I am not sure I am willing to accuse Heritage of making the images too vivid 
when it could simply be that they use the picture editor defaults for 
corrections.

Jay Nemeth-Johannes 
8901 N Rexleigh Dr 
Bayside, WI 53217 
(970) 290-9797 (Cell) 
-- 

-Original  Message-
From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of  Richard 
C Evans
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:22  PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re:  [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright  
deception?

While I'd far rather sellers made a  concerted effort to accurately 
represent lots, I can perhaps forgive a  little tweak for improved 
presentation.  

Though when something looks too vivid I think most  collectors can easily 
spot it, so it seems a pointless exercise.

Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com 
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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

First of all, quit being and sounding like a bitter, angry old woman all
the time. It is rather tedious.

Second, you said photos taken can appear brown or overexposed, even tho the
real image looks nothing like this. This is True.. if the one taking the
image doesnt know basic photographic skills and cannot judge an image to be
over or under lit (and many dont). James Wong Howe is not needed for
photography 101.

If you want to take photos of that look dark or browned, or so over-exposed
as to be blown out, go right ahead. (this is the comment you made about
images being photographed, without relying on photoshopped exposure
correction, which was NOT the subject of bruce's original question anyhow.
He was asking about image color being boosted or over saturated so as to
look more appealing).  With all due respect, Francis, go back and re-read
the original post.

Third, No one said an insert photo of every ding was necessary. I was
commenting on adjusting the contrast of a light tax stamp that might not be
visible otherwise (ALSO something you made reference to).

-Kerry



On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Franc fdav...@verizon.net wrote:

 **
 Get a grip. Someone selling $10 lobby cards isn't going to hire James Wong
 Howe to shot his photos. So long as the photo is reasonable and the
 decription is accurate, I don't need  to see an insert photo of every tiny
 ding on the left edge. Life is too short.  FRANC

  -Original Message-
 *From:* MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] *On Behalf Of *
 lovenoir2
 *Sent:* Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:59 PM
 *To:* MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
 *Subject:* Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
 deception?

 As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. And unless a
 description is written in technical, bullet point fashion, pointing out
 flaws, dings, rips (as well as it's positive aspects), a photo is 100%
 crucial. No one would buy an item with only a paragraph of descriptive text
 included.

 As far as the comments made about the limitations in photography, you not
 right here, Franc. Your example of a raw photo looking washed out or
 totally browned would mean the initial photograph was taken (or lit)
 incorrectly. A photographer who knows his craft would never turn over an
 image such as you described, saying that it can be fixed in post. And if
 they did, it would be the last thing he would shoot, if I had hired him.

 If a poster has browned due to age or paper acid content, then show it--
 dont artificially lighten it or the borders in photoshop. Many (including
 myself), like to see the age and history of an item 70 or 80 years old. Who
 wants it to look like it was printed yesterday?

 And if there was, for example, a light censor stamp, that was difficult to
 see, of course, that area should be a separate detail photo, tweaked with
 and adjusted, to best show and see it. That, tho, is not a color boost
 issue.

 The question posed was regarding images that have been saturated or color
 boosted; not how photoshop can best show possible imperfections or details
 not seen readily.

 -Kerry







 On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Franc fdav...@verizon.net wrote:

 **
 I think Voltaire figured out a long time ago that nothing's perfect in
 this best of all possible worlds. I think it's almost more important to
 give an actual written description of the condition of the poster or lobby
 card including any flaws. Simply showing a photo without pointing out
 things that could easily be missed such as a light censor stamp or some
 light spotting is being somewhat less than forthright. I can totally
 forgive the photo shop color corrections because in many cases to not photo
 shop the photo will result in a poster looking totally washed out or (worse
 yet) totally browned, when in real life it is not. Provided there's a
 return policy for dissatisfied buyers, I have no problem with correcting
 color in a photo shop application.  FRANC

  -Original Message-
 *From:* MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] *On Behalf Of 
 *Richard
 C Evans
 *Sent:* Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:22 PM
 *To:* MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
 *Subject:* Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
 deception?

 While I'd far rather sellers made a concerted effort to accurately
 represent lots, I can perhaps forgive a little tweak for improved
 presentation.

 Though when something looks too vivid I think most collectors can easily
 spot it, so it seems a pointless exercise.

 Besides, aren't collectors interested in paper that is actually old?

 I'd just raised one particularly bad example on NSFGE.

 I sold a Maltese Falcon Window card at Heritage a few years back. That
 one was, to my eye, accurately represented.

 They're selling a superior example in the upcoming sale, and unless it's
 a particularly bizarre printing anomaly, they've seriously overdone it.

 Terribly garish, reds look dayglo, lighter colours

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

2012-03-03 Thread Richard C Evans

If that is the case, it's probably high time they noticed and made effort to 
sort it out.
Seems ridiculous for a high end seller like Heritage to be victim of issues 
that a lot of others seem to easily avoid.


On 3 Mar 2012, at 23:12, Jay Nemeth-Johannes wrote:

 I posted on APF on this, that the boosting isn’t necessarily intentional.  If 
 you take Bruce’s or Rich’s photos and open them in Microsoft picture manager 
 or iPhoto on the Mac, select edit and then do autocorrect, you will end up 
 with an image with higher saturation and increased contrast.  Obviously both 
 Microsoft and Apple believe that an accurate image is somewhat hotter than an 
 ANSI corrected image.
 
 Further, your perception of the true appearance is influenced by a lot of 
 factors, not the least of which is the light you are viewing it under.  
 Bright light, dim light, incandescent, CFL, tube flourescent, ‘daylight’ 
 flourescent, LED.  They are all going to make the picture ‘pop’ to varying 
 extents.
 
 I am not sure I am willing to accuse Heritage of making the images too vivid 
 when it could simply be that they use the picture editor defaults for 
 corrections.
 
 Jay Nemeth-Johannes 
 8901 N Rexleigh Dr 
 Bayside, WI 53217 
 (970) 290-9797 (Cell) 
 -- 
 
 
 
 -Original  Message-
 From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of  
 Richard C Evans
 Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:22  PM
 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
 Subject: Re:  [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright  
 deception?
 
 While I'd far rather sellers made a  concerted effort to accurately 
 represent lots, I can perhaps forgive a  little tweak for improved 
 presentation.  
 
  
 Though when something looks too vivid I think most  collectors can easily 
 spot it, so it seems a pointless exercise.
  
 
  
 
 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
 ___
 How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
 Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
 In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
 The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
 



 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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   Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

I've been buying posters from Heritage for years. I've bought more in 
2011 than I did in 2010.
Many of these items have been expensive items, a number of which are 
hanging on the wall to my right while I am at this very desk


I am yet to receive any item that I feel was misrepresented 


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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

If anyone is sounding like a bitter old woman with too much time on her
hands or at least enough time to manufacture a non-existent concern, it's
you. Not everything in life is a matter of life or death and not every
teapot has a tempest in it, as someone else has pointed out. BTW, the name
is Franc. 

-Original Message-
From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of lovenoir2
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 6:37 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?

First of all, quit being and sounding like a bitter, angry old woman all the
time. It is rather tedious.

Second, you said photos taken can appear brown or overexposed, even tho the
real image looks nothing like this. This is True.. if the one taking the
image doesnt know basic photographic skills and cannot judge an image to be
over or under lit (and many dont). James Wong Howe is not needed for
photography 101.

If you want to take photos of that look dark or browned, or so over-exposed
as to be blown out, go right ahead. (this is the comment you made about
images being photographed, without relying on photoshopped exposure
correction, which was NOT the subject of bruce's original question anyhow.
He was asking about image color being boosted or over saturated so as to
look more appealing).  With all due respect, Francis, go back and re-read
the original post.

Third, No one said an insert photo of every ding was necessary. I was
commenting on adjusting the contrast of a light tax stamp that might not be
visible otherwise (ALSO something you made reference to).

-Kerry

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Franc fdav...@verizon.net wrote:

Get a grip. Someone selling $10 lobby cards isn't going to hire James Wong
Howe to shot his photos. So long as the photo is reasonable and the
decription is accurate, I don't need  to see an insert photo of every tiny
ding on the left edge. Life is too short.  FRANC

-Original Message-
From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of lovenoir2
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:59 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?

As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. And unless a
description is written in technical, bullet point fashion, pointing out
flaws, dings, rips (as well as it's positive aspects), a photo is 100%
crucial. No one would buy an item with only a paragraph of descriptive text
included. 

As far as the comments made about the limitations in photography, you not
right here, Franc. Your example of a raw photo looking washed out or totally
browned would mean the initial photograph was taken (or lit) incorrectly. A
photographer who knows his craft would never turn over an image such as you
described, saying that it can be fixed in post. And if they did, it would
be the last thing he would shoot, if I had hired him.

If a poster has browned due to age or paper acid content, then show it--
dont artificially lighten it or the borders in photoshop. Many (including
myself), like to see the age and history of an item 70 or 80 years old. Who
wants it to look like it was printed yesterday? 

And if there was, for example, a light censor stamp, that was difficult to
see, of course, that area should be a separate detail photo, tweaked with
and adjusted, to best show and see it. That, tho, is not a color boost
issue.

The question posed was regarding images that have been saturated or color
boosted; not how photoshop can best show possible imperfections or details
not seen readily.

-Kerry

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Franc fdav...@verizon.net wrote:

I think Voltaire figured out a long time ago that nothing's perfect in this
best of all possible worlds. I think it's almost more important to give an
actual written description of the condition of the poster or lobby card
including any flaws. Simply showing a photo without pointing out things that
could easily be missed such as a light censor stamp or some light spotting
is being somewhat less than forthright. I can totally forgive the photo shop
color corrections because in many cases to not photo shop the photo will
result in a poster looking totally washed out or (worse yet) totally
browned, when in real life it is not. Provided there's a return policy for
dissatisfied buyers, I have no problem with correcting color in a photo shop
application.  FRANC 

-Original Message-
From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard C
Evans
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:22 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?

While I'd far rather sellers made a concerted effort to accurately represent
lots, I can perhaps forgive a little tweak for improved presentation. 

Though when something looks too vivid I think most collectors can easily
spot it, so

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

2012-03-03 Thread Steven Hill

My take on boosted images is simple.
It's FINE to do that when presenting the images for use in a book, or other 
decoration.
It's NOT FINE to do that when presenting the images to sell the poster.
-S
 --
Steven Warren Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net shil...@yahoo.com 


 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

I agree, Steve. As i mentioned earlier, this discussion has also been
going on at APF. If someone wants to boost or enhance images in a book
or on their own site, containing posters in their collection that are
not for sale, that is all well and good.

Items for sale or auction, (and especially high end items) should be
shown as they truly are and appear (even after restoration or
backing). No extra color enhancement should be done to an item.

Ps- Others have expressed similar questions or observations, on other
poster message boards, franc. And isnt the purpose of a forum or
message board supposed to be a place to express opinions, observations
and to be able to ask questions without being jumped on? I wasnt
attacking you or HA.  Yet you reply with your Get a grip response.

If a simple question like Does HA boost or saturate their online
images? cannot be asked without individuals becoming upset or snippy,
then there is a problem.

-Kerry




On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Steven Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 My take on boosted images is simple.
 It's FINE to do that when presenting the images for use in a book, or other
 decoration.
 It's NOT FINE to do that when presenting the images to sell the poster.
 -S

 --
 Steven Warren Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net shil...@yahoo.com

 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
 ___ How to
 UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to:
 lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF
 MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.

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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

2012-03-03 Thread peter contarino

I have been buying from Heritage for years and have attended their auctions
as well. They have far and away the best and most accurate images.

 

Peter Contarino

 

From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of Franc
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 7:26 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?

 

Ditto. I've never bought anything from Heritage I wasn't satisfied with. How
many has lovenoir bought?  

-Original Message-
From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard
Halegua Comic Art
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 7:13 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?

I've been buying posters from Heritage for years. I've bought more in 2011
than I did in 2010. 
Many of these items have been expensive items, a number of which are hanging
on the wall to my right while I am at this very desk

I am yet to receive any item that I feel was misrepresented 

Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com

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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?


Kerry

#1 do you ever buy anything from Heritage
#2 if you buy anything from Heritage, have you ever gotten an item 
you feel was misrepresented?
#3 if you ever got an item you felt was misrepresented, did you 
explain any dissatisfaction to Grey Smith or any other Heritage employee
#4 if you explained any any dissatisfaction to Grey Smith or any 
other Heritage employee, did you get a satisfactory response


but really, #1 do you ever buy anything from Heritage
if not, then exactly why would you have a gripe?? which is exactly 
what you seem to have.
if yuo haven't bought anything from Heritage, then how do you know if 
Heritage has boosted any image color?
do you have anything in your possession that you bought that you can 
point to that has a color differential at all, or is everything you 
have stated in this thread - just as in the APF thread - just conjecture?

As I stated in the thread on APF, stating conjecture as fact is WRONG.
If you have nothing in your possession that you can point to that has 
had it's color boosted by Heritage, then you have no proof and 
everything you write of is just pure conjecture.






At 05:24 PM 3/3/2012, lovenoir2 wrote:

I agree, Steve. As i mentioned earlier, this discussion has also been
going on at APF. If someone wants to boost or enhance images in a book
or on their own site, containing posters in their collection that are
not for sale, that is all well and good.

Items for sale or auction, (and especially high end items) should be
shown as they truly are and appear (even after restoration or
backing). No extra color enhancement should be done to an item.

Ps- Others have expressed similar questions or observations, on other
poster message boards, franc. And isnt the purpose of a forum or
message board supposed to be a place to express opinions, observations
and to be able to ask questions without being jumped on? I wasnt
attacking you or HA.  Yet you reply with your Get a grip response.

If a simple question like Does HA boost or saturate their online
images? cannot be asked without individuals becoming upset or snippy,
then there is a problem.

-Kerry




On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Steven Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 My take on boosted images is simple.
 It's FINE to do that when presenting the images for use in a book, or other
 decoration.
 It's NOT FINE to do that when presenting the images to sell the poster.
 -S

 --
 Steven Warren Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net shil...@yahoo.com

 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
 ___ How to
 UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to:
 lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF
 MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.

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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

You started name-calling which in my book is a desperate attempt to silence
someone. I'll repeat get a grip. 

-Original Message-
From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of lovenoir2
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:24 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?

I agree, Steve. As i mentioned earlier, this discussion has also been going
on at APF. If someone wants to boost or enhance images in a book or on their
own site, containing posters in their collection that are not for sale, that
is all well and good.

Items for sale or auction, (and especially high end items) should be shown
as they truly are and appear (even after restoration or backing). No extra
color enhancement should be done to an item.

Ps- Others have expressed similar questions or observations, on other poster
message boards, franc. And isnt the purpose of a forum or message board
supposed to be a place to express opinions, observations and to be able to
ask questions without being jumped on? I wasnt attacking you or HA.  Yet you
reply with your Get a grip response.

If a simple question like Does HA boost or saturate their online images?
cannot be asked without individuals becoming upset or snippy, then there is
a problem.

-Kerry

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Steven Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 My take on boosted images is simple.
 It's FINE to do that when presenting the images for use in a book, or 
 other decoration. It's NOT FINE to do that when presenting the images 
 to sell the poster. -S

 --
 Steven Warren Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net shil...@yahoo.com

 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com 
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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

Rich.

If you construe my question or observations as gripes, then this is
truly fruitless. I was doing nothing of the kind, let me be clear. The
same I guess would apply to those others (on APF) that have asked or
commented on the same thing?

And one wonders why issues get blown out of proportion. Bruce asked
the question. A few have answered, myself included. I have never
griped--but made some observations. Isnt it about a healthy debate? it
is, IMO.

HA has some of the best auctions of this kind of rare material. That
is without question.

And no, I have not yet purchased from HA.

Again, if one cannot ask a question, -- or better yet, reply to the
question asked by another (meaning Bruce's earlier post), then what is
the reason for the forums in the first place?


-Kerry






On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Richard Halegua Comic Art
sa...@comic-art.com wrote:
 Kerry

 #1 do you ever buy anything from Heritage
 #2 if you buy anything from Heritage, have you ever gotten an item you feel
 was misrepresented?
 #3 if you ever got an item you felt was misrepresented, did you explain any
 dissatisfaction to Grey Smith or any other Heritage employee
 #4 if you explained any any dissatisfaction to Grey Smith or any other
 Heritage employee, did you get a satisfactory response

 but really, #1 do you ever buy anything from Heritage
 if not, then exactly why would you have a gripe?? which is exactly what you
 seem to have.
 if yuo haven't bought anything from Heritage, then how do you know if
 Heritage has boosted any image color?
 do you have anything in your possession that you bought that you can point
 to that has a color differential at all, or is everything you have stated in
 this thread - just as in the APF thread - just conjecture?
 As I stated in the thread on APF, stating conjecture as fact is WRONG.
 If you have nothing in your possession that you can point to that has had
 it's color boosted by Heritage, then you have no proof and everything you
 write of is just pure conjecture.






 At 05:24 PM 3/3/2012, lovenoir2 wrote:

 I agree, Steve. As i mentioned earlier, this discussion has also been
 going on at APF. If someone wants to boost or enhance images in a book
 or on their own site, containing posters in their collection that are
 not for sale, that is all well and good.

 Items for sale or auction, (and especially high end items) should be
 shown as they truly are and appear (even after restoration or
 backing). No extra color enhancement should be done to an item.

 Ps- Others have expressed similar questions or observations, on other
 poster message boards, franc. And isnt the purpose of a forum or
 message board supposed to be a place to express opinions, observations
 and to be able to ask questions without being jumped on? I wasnt
 attacking you or HA.  Yet you reply with your Get a grip response.

 If a simple question like Does HA boost or saturate their online
 images? cannot be asked without individuals becoming upset or snippy,
 then there is a problem.

 -Kerry




 On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Steven Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
  My take on boosted images is simple.
  It's FINE to do that when presenting the images for use in a book, or
  other
  decoration.
  It's NOT FINE to do that when presenting the images to sell the poster.
  -S
 
  --
  Steven Warren Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net shil...@yahoo.com
 
  Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
  ___ How
  to
  UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to:
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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

Kerry, it is correct that you can get on a soapbox such as MoPo or 
APF and publicly post and yes, an open discussion is endorsed.
However, there comes a point where facts are not always in the favor 
of the person posting.
You have admitted that you have never bought from Heritage, therefore 
you have no idea whether any of the conjecture you pose is even close 
to true, however if you go back back and read all of your posts both 
in this thread and on APF, some of your comments come across as 
stated facts and/or leading questions indicating facts. That's just wrong.


Bruce has a boner for Heritage, so he constantly stirs the pot and 
gins up the crowd. One can only guess what motivation he has and 
myself, while I have expressed privately to Bruce my opinions, I'm 
not in the habit of attacking my competitors in any way and at the 
same time, I'm not one to tell Bruce or Heritage how to do anything 
they do either commercially or personally. Bruce and Grey are both big boys


If I have a bone to pick with someone - and I'm not talking about 
posting about some stupid ebay seller who doesn't know how to ship - 
I may tell a friend, but I'm not all that likely to post about it 
publicly except in extreme cases, like if someone screws me straight 
up I might say something about that.


Bruce has done great things for the movie poster hobby over the last 
30 years and he was pretty good in comics before that.
Similarly, Heritage has done great things for the hobby in the last 
10 years. Grey Smith himself was no stranger to the movie poster 
hobby long before he took a job at Heritage (although I was not 
fortunate enough to have known him then).


as I stated on APF, the photography people at Heritage work 
autonomously from the Movie Poster people. The same goes for every 
division under the corporate umbrella at Heritage. Photographers work 
under certain teachings - color correction, image correction, certain 
lighting conditions, using high def CMOS element cameras, they use a 
photography table that opens up so you can put a poster down and then 
it closes so that a large glass panel presses down on the poster 
flattening it out for photography. They color match their monitors 
and their scanner or cameras so that what they see is what they get. 
They do all kinds of things that Bruce and I do not.


My own photos for my auctions aren't made to be color-perfect matches 
to the poster in front of me. My photos are meant specifically so 
that you can see condition issues. I don't use a CMOS camera. I don't 
have a professional photography table and I can't get away from the 
fluorescent lights that are installed in this place. But I have not 
had a single complaint EVER that my photos do not match the item I am 
selling and as a Heritage buyer my feelings are no different.


I don't see any benefits from anyone trying to run down someone else 
who is doing fantastic things for the poster hobby.





At 06:04 PM 3/3/2012, lovenoir2 wrote:

Rich.

If you construe my question or observations as gripes, then this is
truly fruitless. I was doing nothing of the kind, let me be clear. The
same I guess would apply to those others (on APF) that have asked or
commented on the same thing?

And one wonders why issues get blown out of proportion. Bruce asked
the question. A few have answered, myself included. I have never
griped--but made some observations. Isnt it about a healthy debate? it
is, IMO.

HA has some of the best auctions of this kind of rare material. That
is without question.

And no, I have not yet purchased from HA.

Again, if one cannot ask a question, -- or better yet, reply to the
question asked by another (meaning Bruce's earlier post), then what is
the reason for the forums in the first place?


-Kerry






On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Richard Halegua Comic Art
sa...@comic-art.com wrote:
 Kerry

 #1 do you ever buy anything from Heritage
 #2 if you buy anything from Heritage, have you ever gotten an item you feel
 was misrepresented?
 #3 if you ever got an item you felt was misrepresented, did you explain any
 dissatisfaction to Grey Smith or any other Heritage employee
 #4 if you explained any any dissatisfaction to Grey Smith or any other
 Heritage employee, did you get a satisfactory response

 but really, #1 do you ever buy anything from Heritage
 if not, then exactly why would you have a gripe?? which is exactly what you
 seem to have.
 if yuo haven't bought anything from Heritage, then how do you know if
 Heritage has boosted any image color?
 do you have anything in your possession that you bought that you can point
 to that has a color differential at all, or is everything you 
have stated in

 this thread - just as in the APF thread - just conjecture?
 As I stated in the thread on APF, stating conjecture as fact is WRONG.
 If you have nothing in your possession that you can point to that has had
 it's color boosted by Heritage, then you have no proof and everything you
 write of

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

2012-03-03 Thread kainbach

I completely agree as well...in addition a catalog or internet picture 
typically looks different than when you see it in person in full scale...how 
could you truly see the same image in a smaller or larger picture version than 
in real? The posters always looks so much better in real compared to the 
internet or catalogs. Simple.
Philipp

Sent via BlackBerry by ATT

-Original Message-
From: peter contarino pcontar...@triad.rr.com
Sender: MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 20:27:17 
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Reply-To: peter contarino pcontar...@triad.rr.com
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

I have been buying from Heritage for years and have attended their auctions
as well. They have far and away the best and most accurate images.

 

Peter Contarino

 

From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of Franc
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 7:26 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?

 

Ditto. I've never bought anything from Heritage I wasn't satisfied with. How
many has lovenoir bought?  

-Original Message-
From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard
Halegua Comic Art
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 7:13 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright
deception?

I've been buying posters from Heritage for years. I've bought more in 2011
than I did in 2010. 
Many of these items have been expensive items, a number of which are hanging
on the wall to my right while I am at this very desk

I am yet to receive any item that I feel was misrepresented 

Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com

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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

Kerry

Obviously you are allowed to post anything you want, but please try
hard to be sure it agrees with the opinions of those who disagree with
you.

Bruce

On 3/3/12, lovenoir2 loveno...@gmail.com wrote:
 Rich.

 If you construe my question or observations as gripes, then this is
 truly fruitless. I was doing nothing of the kind, let me be clear. The
 same I guess would apply to those others (on APF) that have asked or
 commented on the same thing?

 And one wonders why issues get blown out of proportion. Bruce asked
 the question. A few have answered, myself included. I have never
 griped--but made some observations. Isnt it about a healthy debate? it
 is, IMO.

 HA has some of the best auctions of this kind of rare material. That
 is without question.

 And no, I have not yet purchased from HA.

 Again, if one cannot ask a question, -- or better yet, reply to the
 question asked by another (meaning Bruce's earlier post), then what is
 the reason for the forums in the first place?


 -Kerry






 On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Richard Halegua Comic Art
 sa...@comic-art.com wrote:
 Kerry

 #1 do you ever buy anything from Heritage
 #2 if you buy anything from Heritage, have you ever gotten an item you
 feel
 was misrepresented?
 #3 if you ever got an item you felt was misrepresented, did you explain
 any
 dissatisfaction to Grey Smith or any other Heritage employee
 #4 if you explained any any dissatisfaction to Grey Smith or any other
 Heritage employee, did you get a satisfactory response

 but really, #1 do you ever buy anything from Heritage
 if not, then exactly why would you have a gripe?? which is exactly what
 you
 seem to have.
 if yuo haven't bought anything from Heritage, then how do you know if
 Heritage has boosted any image color?
 do you have anything in your possession that you bought that you can point
 to that has a color differential at all, or is everything you have stated
 in
 this thread - just as in the APF thread - just conjecture?
 As I stated in the thread on APF, stating conjecture as fact is WRONG.
 If you have nothing in your possession that you can point to that has had
 it's color boosted by Heritage, then you have no proof and everything you
 write of is just pure conjecture.






 At 05:24 PM 3/3/2012, lovenoir2 wrote:

 I agree, Steve. As i mentioned earlier, this discussion has also been
 going on at APF. If someone wants to boost or enhance images in a book
 or on their own site, containing posters in their collection that are
 not for sale, that is all well and good.

 Items for sale or auction, (and especially high end items) should be
 shown as they truly are and appear (even after restoration or
 backing). No extra color enhancement should be done to an item.

 Ps- Others have expressed similar questions or observations, on other
 poster message boards, franc. And isnt the purpose of a forum or
 message board supposed to be a place to express opinions, observations
 and to be able to ask questions without being jumped on? I wasnt
 attacking you or HA.  Yet you reply with your Get a grip response.

 If a simple question like Does HA boost or saturate their online
 images? cannot be asked without individuals becoming upset or snippy,
 then there is a problem.

 -Kerry




 On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Steven Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net
 wrote:
  My take on boosted images is simple.
  It's FINE to do that when presenting the images for use in a book, or
  other
  decoration.
  It's NOT FINE to do that when presenting the images to sell the poster.
  -S
 
  --
  Steven Warren Hill shil...@sbcglobal.net shil...@yahoo.com
 
  Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
  ___ How
  to
  UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to:
  lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type:
  SIGNOFF
  MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its
  content.

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 In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L

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-- 
Bruce Hershenson and the other 24 members of the eMoviePoster.com team
P.O. Box 874
West Plains, MO 65775
Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when we take
lunch)
our

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?


At 07:44 PM 3/3/2012, Bruce Hershenson wrote:

Kerry

Obviously you are allowed to post anything you want, but please try
hard to be sure it agrees with the opinions of those who disagree with
you.

Bruce


Bruce, I completely disagree with this characterization of the thread.

I'd say it's more along the lines of:
when you post accusations, it is best to post about those things 
that you have first-hand proof and experience about, so that your 
accusations will not later be disputed as completely false or even 
just potentially false


Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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 How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
   
  Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu

   In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
   
   The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

Do you think this window card was printed with these colors?

[image: Inline image 1]

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:07 PM, Richard Halegua Comic Art 
sa...@comic-art.com wrote:

 At 07:44 PM 3/3/2012, Bruce Hershenson wrote:

 Kerry

 Obviously you are allowed to post anything you want, but please try
 hard to be sure it agrees with the opinions of those who disagree with
 you.

 Bruce


 Bruce, I completely disagree with this characterization of the thread.

 I'd say it's more along the lines of:
 when you post accusations, it is best to post about those things that you
 have first-hand proof and experience about, so that your accusations will
 not later be disputed as completely false or even just potentially false




-- 
Bruce Hershenson and the other 24 members of the eMoviePoster.com team
P.O. Box 874
West Plains, MO 65775
Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when we take
lunch)
our site http://www.emovieposter.com/
our auctions http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html
http://www.emovieposter.com/unused/signature/20111028Frankensteinemployeegroupphotosignature.jpg

 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?

2012-03-03 Thread Toochis Morin

How does a bitter old woman sound different from a bitter old man?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 3, 2012, at 3:36 PM, lovenoir2 loveno...@gmail.com wrote:

 First of all, quit being and sounding like a bitter, angry old woman all the 
 time. It is rather tedious.
 
 Second, you said photos taken can appear brown or overexposed, even tho the 
 real image looks nothing like this. This is True.. if the one taking the 
 image doesnt know basic photographic skills and cannot judge an image to be 
 over or under lit (and many dont). James Wong Howe is not needed for 
 photography 101.
 
 If you want to take photos of that look dark or browned, or so over-exposed 
 as to be blown out, go right ahead. (this is the comment you made about 
 images being photographed, without relying on photoshopped exposure 
 correction, which was NOT the subject of bruce's original question anyhow. He 
 was asking about image color being boosted or over saturated so as to look 
 more appealing).  With all due respect, Francis, go back and re-read the 
 original post.
 
 Third, No one said an insert photo of every ding was necessary. I was 
 commenting on adjusting the contrast of a light tax stamp that might not be 
 visible otherwise (ALSO something you made reference to).
 
 -Kerry
 
 
 
 On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Franc fdav...@verizon.net wrote:
 Get a grip. Someone selling $10 lobby cards isn't going to hire James Wong 
 Howe to shot his photos. So long as the photo is reasonable and the 
 decription is accurate, I don't need  to see an insert photo of every tiny 
 ding on the  left edge. Life is too short.  FRANC
 -Original Message-
 From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of lovenoir2
 Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:59 PM
 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
 Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright 
 deception?
 
 As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. And unless a 
 description is written in technical, bullet point fashion, pointing out 
 flaws, dings, rips (as well as it's positive aspects), a photo is 100% 
 crucial. No one would buy an item with only a paragraph of descriptive text 
 included. 
 
 As far as the comments made about the limitations in photography, you not 
 right here, Franc. Your example of a raw photo looking washed out or totally 
 browned would mean the initial photograph was taken (or lit) incorrectly. A 
 photographer who knows his craft would never turn over an image such as you 
 described, saying that it can be fixed in post. And if they did, it would 
 be the last thing he would shoot, if I had hired him.
 
 If a poster has browned due to age or paper acid content, then show it-- dont 
 artificially lighten it or the borders in photoshop. Many (including myself), 
 like to see the age and history of an item 70 or 80 years old. Who wants it 
 to look like it was printed yesterday? 
 
 And if there was, for example, a light censor stamp, that was difficult to 
 see, of course, that area should be a separate detail photo, tweaked with and 
 adjusted, to best show and see it. That, tho, is not a color boost issue.
 
 The question posed was regarding images that have been saturated or color 
 boosted; not how photoshop can best show possible imperfections or details 
 not seen readily.
 
 -Kerry
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Franc fdav...@verizon.net wrote:
 I think Voltaire figured out a long time ago that nothing's perfect in this 
 best of all possible worlds. I think it's almost more important to give an 
 actual written description of the condition of the poster or lobby card 
 including any flaws. Simply showing a photo without pointing out things that 
 could easily be missed such as a light censor stamp or some light spotting is 
 being somewhat less than forthright. I can totally forgive the photo shop 
 color corrections because in many cases to not photo shop the photo will 
 result in a poster looking totally washed out or (worse yet) totally browned, 
 when in real life it is not. Provided there's a return policy for 
 dissatisfied buyers, I have no problem with correcting color in a photo shop 
 application.  FRANC 
 -Original Message-
 From: MoPo List [mailto:mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard C 
 Evans
 Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:22 PM
 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
 Subject: Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright 
 deception?
 
 While I'd far rather sellers made a concerted effort to accurately represent 
 lots, I can perhaps forgive a little tweak for improved presentation.
 
 Though when something looks too vivid I think most collectors can easily spot 
 it, so it seems a pointless exercise.
 
 Besides, aren't collectors interested in paper that is actually old?
 
 I'd just raised one particularly bad example on NSFGE.
 
 I sold a Maltese Falcon Window card at Heritage a few years back. That one 
 was, to my eye, accurately

Re: [MOPO] Are boosted images clever marketing or outright deception?