[ozmidwifery] Abby's Birth Announcement
HI, Sorry for the x-post, but thought I would share that thismorning at 3:46am I gave birth to a beautiful little girl, Runah. After a couple of days of crazy prelabour and 5 hours of active labour she was birthed in warm water, in my own home, into my friends hands with just her daddy, mummy and two friends there. After having a very traumatic c-section with my first daughter, this was truly amazing!! I am sore, tired and truly EMPOWERED!! Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Pinky McKay - an amazing woman
Hi, Just thought I would let everyone know that there is no way Pinky would ever be in agreement with the Ezzo's and their teachings. In fact Pinky spends quite a lot of time with parents difusing the terrible belief systems they have, that were put in place by such people as the Ezzo's, Tizzie Hall and Gina Ford. Pinky's books are wonderful as a tool against such teachings. They encourage parents to follow their instincts, trust in themselves and also give great practical advice when needed. I have met Pinky online and in real life and heard her speakshe is one of the best and most passionate speakers I have ever heard. Check out her site and read her books they are really gentle and wonderful. http://www.pinky-mychild.com/ I wonder Brenda if you were thinking of Tizzie Hall. She is a shocker and her attitude is terrible towards babies and children. She makes heaps of money out of really bad advice. But I won't get on to the Tizzie subject it makes me dizzie! lol! Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Watch Out The Ezzo's Are in Town!!
Hi, I hardly post here anymore but thought this was worth mentioning. If I had known earlier I would've been campaigning! The Ezzo's are in Victor Harbour, SA for the GFA National Conference this weekend. I can't imagine anything worse than spending a weekend listening to babies being left to cry and watching children getting smacked and disrespected! Not sure what anyone could do, but if I was there I would be picketing and yelling for childrens rights! Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] doula in the Hawkesbury?
Subject: [ozmidwifery] doula in the Hawkesbury? Hi all,Does anyone know of a doula in this area? Here is Bonny's details Janet. They are posted on a public site so I am sure she wouldn't mind me posting them here. Bonny Davies (Maternity and Birth Support)north-west sydney region: Hawkesbury Region (Windsor)ph: (02) 0414 457 293 Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] Fw: Joyous Birth Review: Episiotomies May Bring More Risks
Hi, Thought some people may find this interesting. Love Abby Subject: Joyous Birth Review: Episiotomies May Bring More Risks Review: Episiotomies May Bring More RisksBy CARLA K. JOHNSON, Associated Press WriterTue May 3,11:09 PM ETFor years, some doctors believed that an episiotomy, an incision toenlarge the vaginal opening during childbirth, would preventspontaneous tearing that would be harder to repair. They also believedthe procedure would help women avoid incontinence and improve theirsex lives.It turns out those beliefs were myths.A new review of 26 research studies shows that episiotomies are linkedwith a higher risk of injury, more trouble healing and more pain.Episiotomies also had no effect on incontinence, pelvic floor strengthor sexual function. Women who had the procedure waited longer toresume sex after childbirth. And their first post-birth intercoursecaused them more pain."This review puts together in one place all the evidence that we'renot getting the results we want," said Dr. Katherine Hartmann, thestudy's lead author and a researcher at the University of NorthCarolina.The review was published in Wednesday's Journal of the AmericanMedical Association.An episiotomy is usually a small cut deeper than the width of alarge metal paperclip and about as long, she said. But spontaneoustears often are smaller and don't need stitches.Many women and their doctors already know episiotomies haven't provenbeneficial, Hartmann said, adding that rates are dropping, but notfast enough.She estimated that 1 million women each year have unnecessaryepisiotomies, citing studies that indicate they are done in about 30percent of vaginal births.An Associated Press analysis of hospital data found there were 616,702episiotomies in 2002, but Hartmann said the procedures areunderestimated in hospital records.Since 1983, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologistshas said episiotomies should not be done routinely. Dr. Laura Riley,of ACOG's obstetrical practice committee, said most doctors alreadyknow they should be done only when the baby is in distress."I think the message has been out there a while," she said. Herhospital, Massachusetts General in Boston, only does them in about 8percent of births, she said.However, the numbers vary widely. Women are more likely to get anepisiotomy at some hospitals, Hartmann said. One study from themid-1990s found that episiotomy rates at Philadelphia hospitals variedfrom 20 percent to 73 percent.The Agency for Healthcare Quality and Research, which funded thereview, planned to post a summary on its Web site Tuesday afternoon.Pregnant women should discuss it with their doctors or midwives,Hartmann said."Just in time for Mother's Day," Hartmann said. "This is a big giftfor future mothers."Every woman and every baby and every family have the right to Joyous Birth! Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/joyousbirth/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[ozmidwifery] Expo this weekend
Hi, Homebirth Access Sydney is in need of your support. We need some more people to help out at the stand this weekend. I am sure we are all aware that in Australia less than 1% of births occur at home, it is a tragedy. Women do not seem to be aware of their options and choices for prenatal and birth support. Nor do women and their partners seem to be aware of the safety of homebirth and the amazing support that an independent midwife can offer. Pregnancy and parenting expos are a great way to bring awareness to womens birthing choices and to the services that independent midwives provide. It would be really wonderful if a few more Sydney midwives could join HAS in promoting homebirth at this expo. So far, only one midwife has put her hand up to volunteer and we need more. If you have just a couple of hours spare, please join us in giving women options and information. You can promote your services while you are there and help women and their partners become aware. It is a small step, but it is a small step in the right direction. More awareness on a grassroots level means more acceptance of midwives and homebirthing. Please email me if you want to help out. We still have spaces on Saturday 12pm-2pm and every afternoon. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby HAS Events Co-ordinator -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] HAS needs you at the PBC Expo
Hi Sydney Midwives, Homebirth Access Sydney would love if you could lend a couple of hours to come and help promote and raise awareness of the joys of homebirthing in Sydney. HAS is having a stall at the Parents, Babies and Childrens Expo from Friday 15th April to Sunday 17th April. We still have a couple of time slots open for someone to help man the stall. Friday 2pm-5pm, Saturday 10am-12pm and 2pm-5pm. It's a great opportunity to advertise yourself and homebirth. Please contact me offlist at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] big baby
I am unclear about some of this reply but when I said 'stressed about the size and labour' I meant (and this is what I needed from people), was that she needs to get her head away from worry about the size and birthing a big baby because that will inhibit and affect her ability to labour well - as in her own head space and find a way to be confident. So sorry Belinda, that was me misreading what you were saying. I have heard so many `professionals` telling women that they will have problems birthing because of their `big` babies, I thought that's what you had stressed to her. I think if you convey to her that her body will grow the perfectly sized baby for her to birth, it would be good for her to hear that. US are so unreliable, I don't know why they are still being used for guessing weight. Sorry again Belinda. I am feeling kinda fiesty about women and birth.didn't know whybut today I know why...I'm pregnant!! YAY!! Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Midiwves supporting in the Blue Mountains?
Hi, Are there any midwives on here that support women birthing in the upper Blue Mountains, or do you know of any? I already know of one, but was wondering if there were any others willing to come up. Thanks Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] Fwd: [AVN] After 11 years, Australia to lose volunteer-run consumer health lobby group
Thought that many people would be interested to know this is happening. I for one would be really upset if this great resource was shut down. Consumers need both sides to make informed decisions, without both sides there is no informed choice. Love Abby Meryl Dorey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]From: "Meryl Dorey" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:08:13 +1100Subject: [AVN] After 11 years, Australia to lose volunteer-run consumer health lobby groupDear everyone,Well, it's been a long, hard 11 years but I personally cannot continue tofight any more without help and help has not been forthcoming except from avery few extremely dedicated people - you know who you are. After 11 yearsof volunteering full time for this organisation, I am afraid I've come tothe end of my resources. We need $20,000 to continue - $50,000 to get to thepoint where we are not always borrowing from Peter to pay Paul - and we havenot been able to raise those funds so, on Monday, I will be contacting thenecessary authorities to discuss putting the AVN into bankruptcy and foldingthis organisation.Believe me, I don't want to see 11 years of my life go down the tubes, but Idon't see any other way out of this. As one of the members of our committeesaid when told about this, "I wonder why it is that those who want to deny others choice are the oneswho can get the money, and the help? I daresay most people are just toohappy to let others do the work for them - but come out screaming whensomething finally affects them. And people like the sceptics are just sofull of their own imagined importance that they attract all thepsuedo-intellectuals, and have no trouble financing all sorts ofconferences, awards, etc etc etc."The saddest thing is that parents and health consumers who choose naturaltherapies will not longer have us as their voice to be lobbying on theirbehalf and helping to inform anyone who cared to listen. The government willbe pleased. The mainstream medical community will be ecstatic. No doubt, theAustralian Sceptics will be declaring a national week of celebration at thedeath of the 'Anti-Vaccine Liars'.If you know of anyone who can help - please speak up now. If you can helpand haven't because you have put it off for one reason or another, stopputting it off - it's past time now.Otherwise, I'm afraid that next week, I will be closing this list down,disconnecting our phones and unfortunately, stopping production of thecurrent issue of Informed Choice magazine which is now at the printers.If you are a member of the AVN, please accept my sincere apologies. I nevermeant for this to happen and have done whatever was within my power toprevent it. It wasn't enough. No matter what (thank you Alan :-)Meryl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical or legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you implement that decision is yours and yours alone.To change your subscription options, go to the eGroups website at: http://www.egroups.com/ and log on.To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Power's On! __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/ozbirthing/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [ozmidwifery] big baby
I have discussed with her the probs with ultrasound weights, big babies, birth, she is very tall as is her husband, stressing about the size in labour affecting her labour. Maybe her body just grows big babies. If a womans body grows big babies, why would you stress how size can affect labour, that just sets up fear and stress for a woman. Her baby, is more than likely, growing perfectly to her body, so size in labour would not make any difference. That is what should be stressed to her, that her baby will be perfect for her body. In this day and age fear is pushed on women, why offer any more stress or fear for a woman to contend with? Lots of women around the world birth big and beautiful babies. If the focus is on the `problems` that the `professionals` see, that is what the womans focus will also become. Why not just let her be and focus on birthing her baby, rather than size, or this problem or that problem. I am reminded of a friend that had a `necessary` c-section because her baby was going to be over 10lbs, but alas, out came her scrawny 7lb, immature baby girl. Oh the joy of `accurate` diagnostic testing. Love Abby - who is wondering why mothers are not treated as the `professionals` -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Protein in Urine?
Hi, A client and I have been discussing protein in urine and how much is too much, when to get worried etc. She was admitted to hospital at 37 weeks with her daughter and induced, apparently due to high blood pressure and protein in her urine. A friend of hers had a similiar symptoms of pre eclampsia but was not admitted to hospital and went on to have a natural birth. So, my question is, can the test measure quantities of protein or just pick up protein in general. If it is in quantities, what level is too much? Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] MORE ACTIVE MANGAEMENT
Has anyone had any experience with women eating a chunk of raw placenta to stop pph? I have read a few things about it and was just wondering if anyone had experience with this. Thanks Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] 100% Caesarean rate at Baxter??
Hi, I have just heard, fifth hand, that at Baxter detention centre they are forcing all pregnant women to have a scheduled caesarean. Is this correct? If so, is there anything happening to change it? Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Fw: [birthings] [Fwd: want to learn]
Thought someone here might be able to share some knowledge and insight with this woman. Love Abby Original Message Subject: want to learnDate: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:14:05 -0800 (PST)From: Emily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Hi thereIm a 20 year old female, just finished my second year of medicine and am hoping to eventually work attending home births or set up a small birthing centre. I am passionately interested in pregnancy, birth and women's health but am having a lot of trouble finding people who will guide or teach me within the hospital setting. I am travelling to alice springs in februrary to do a placement at Alakura Indigenous women's centre. Before i go i would really like to get more experience that might make me more useful in my time there. I'm interested in attending home and hospital births, antenatal and postnatal visits and working with a lactation consultant/midwife or doula to learn more about helping women to breastfeed. I am based in newcastle. Any help would be greatly appreciated.RegardsEmily Dorman0400 372053Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=29916/*http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/birthings/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: The risk that follows caesarean
IN case any of your missed this. lots of mixed messages here! http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/The-risk-that-follows-caesarean/2004/12/ 16/1102787218025.html Regards,mAndrea Don't know if I am even game to read it! lol! On the c-aware list there has already been a response from a woman planning a vbac but know questioning some things. Why do people persist in printing rubbish? Not at all evidence based care or even intelligent thinking. It erks me s much. These people would be seemingly intelligent people yet they don't seem to know anything. The other morning on channel 9 they were talking about prem babies and they didn't mention one thing about kangaroo care, yet they mentioned stuff about babies not being able to regulate their temperature. This was during an interview with the expert on prems. I don't understand why the journalists don't look into things properly before printing and reporting such BS! Jumping off the soapbox now! Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...
Hm, was just on the phone to a friend talking about when this would get posted on here...Pinky are you on this list? lol! As if parents need more pressure to sleep and have children that should be sleeping through. Too much focus goes on how many hours a baby sleeps or if they are a good sleeper and not enough focus goes into parenting and night time parenting. Parenting is a 24hour a day 7 day a week job. I can't believe, thatpeople believe, that a three month old should be able to put herself back to sleep?? What about the studies showing that babies still get at least 25% of their nutrition at night time if they need it? What about their tiny tummies? What about the emotional and physical impacts on the child? What about the fact that we know so much more about the psychological effects that the Tresillian method has on the child?? What about the fact that this child has had her whole life rearranged and needs her mummy and daddy to nurture and care for her not take her to a strange place and have strangers`care` for her. I don't believe that Tresillian teaches how to "understand the perspective of the infants", how can they when they use 85 year old ideas that can cause psychological damage to such a young child. Their formula is not "sleep-inducing" it is `shut down for survival` inducing. It erks me that newspapers print such propaganda. Abby http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Thanks-baby-whisperers-now-we-can-all-sleep/2004/12/12/1102786955922.html This should be of interest to you...
[ozmidwifery] AAIMHI Policy Paper on Controlled Crying
Hi, Thought I would post a link to this for anyone that may not have seen it. The policy certainly challenges much of the popular thinking about sleep training and such. http://www.aaimhi.org/documents/position%20papers/controlled_crying.pdf Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...
I can't believe, thatpeople believe, that a three month old should be able to put herself back to sleep?? Sorry, I misread the age of the child and she was 7 months when they went to Tresillian. Still far too young in my opinion, she still has such a tiny tummy and babies usually wake if they need something, not just to be annoying and inconvenient. Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] Glucose Challenge Testing
Hi, Couple of questions about this- 1) Is this application normal or necessary, the fasting for so long I mean - "My midwife wants me to have a glucose challenge test that involves 12 hours fasting then a blood test, drinking a sugary drink, 1hr later another blood test, drinking another drink and then another hour later another blood test." I have never heard of someonehaving to fast for that long beforehand?? Seems like a strange thing to ask a pregnant woman to do. Any insight would be great. 2) Does anyone have any info, links, research etc about the accuracy, relevance/importance, evidence etc for the glucose test? Thanksin advance. Love Abby (P.S. Still working on the `evidence` aboutcontrolled crying, nutrition etc)
[ozmidwifery] Breech birth question
Hi, Just reading about breech births and differences of opinions between caregivers. Came across this comment, on a homebirth midwifes page and found it kinda odd. I would expect it from some Obs and hospital staff,but not sure what to make of this. There are other things on the page that I think are weird eg. semi reclined position, do this, do that, I'm in charge kind of attitude, but this comment struck me as `fear`. 7. At this point the baby must be born quickly. STAY CALM! It is possible for the baby to suffocate if not born within 5 minutes. Note: Time seems to stand still when we are under stress. Have an assistant keep track of time. What will seem like twenty minutes to you will have probably have been two! http://www.moondragon.org/obgyn/pregnancy/breechhome.html Any midwives out there that have differing views on breech births. I realise that these days most women are encouraged to have c-sections, but thought some of you would supported women at breech births. I have learnt from a couple of wise women that the best way for women to birth a breech baby is just like any other baby, her way in her time. Love Abby (P.S. She also warns against the advocation of the squatting position, where as Michel Odent believes it should be insisted that women birth a breech baby squatting?? Any thoughts??)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Breech birth question
Couple that with knowledge and common sense and you will cope with most midwifery situations including breech birth.marilyn Thanks for sharing Marilyn. I think that paragraph was pretty full on too..actually, I thought most of it was coming from a very "managed" and aggressive approach. Was your breech birth any different to your other births? It really interests me, the perspective of mothers birthing breech babies. I assume that most breech babies are "delivered" by c-section these days in hospitals and a lot of mothers believe this is the only way. Do you think that the high numbers of morbidity or injuryin breech birth statistics is because peope have not kept their hands and management out of the births? I wonder what the stats would be if there was a study done on completely natural breech births, not that stats tell everything, but it would be an interesting comparison of hospitals/home/managedto natural/ unmanaged. Love Abby- always thinking, always asking. lol.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Breech birth question
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Breech birth question
I really love your interest in all
the finer details of birth - your inquisitive nature will hold you well as you
watch all your births unfold - all in their own manner, positions and time
frame.
Thanks for the encouragement Sue. Sometimes my
inquisitive, questioning mind gets me in trouble! lol!I have also not long returned from Maggie Banks
Midwifery Intensive in New Zealand where we really bashed out breech births from
all perspectives and positions.
I am so keen to get along to one of Maggies intensives. I
am hoping to go sometime next year. Flights can be so cheap now and what a
wonderful way to spend a weekend!!If you run a breech
simulation through a plastic uterus, like we did many times in NZ, it appears
that the most accommodating position ie the easiest 'sweep' of the baby's head
through the bones and the perineum is with the pelvis tipped slightly forwards
ie mum leaning slightly back, but upright not sitting on her pelvis ('bed
dystocia' as Maggie calls it).
It is interesting that some `caregivers` can observe this
and then some cannot see the ease different positions create, not just in birth.
I have a very old obstetrics book and everything is shown on a plastic model. (I
got the book to cut up for some artworks I am doing). Every pic is the model
lying down or semi reclined, I just wonder how people don't notice the
`obstructions`, generally created in those
positions.However, 2 of my 3 homebirth breeches were
standing leaning forward which does allow baby to drop through well, but with
each of these, when the head was ready to be born ie after the nape of the neck
was visible, when asked to 'let go', both mothers spontaneously tipped
their pelvises forward (into the better sweeping position).
It is amazing how women will follow their bodies cues and
intuition if supported in that space. I love to hear these stories, they are so
few and far between, where a woman is encouraged to `let go`.
Cord cut immediately, off to the resus trolley, suctioned,
aspirated, shown to another midwife out the door - all before mum even had a
look!! Disgusting behaviour !!
That is disgusting! Women can be treated so badly, it is
an outrage. It is incredibly sad too. Did you want to deck him one
Sue??!!This makes senes to me anyway, as we all know the
difficulties sometimes faced with severe dystocias which sometimes end in
tragedy.
It makes sense to me too. I am sooo
keen to get along to an intensive now!! Even though I am not a midwife, I just
love learning from wise women about women. I think I would've loved to have
grown up watching heaps of births and sitting in womens circles!
lol!
I think that in the attempt to stop tragedy in birth, the
medical "professionals" have taken it too far and created many tragedies through
interventions. I am amazed and thankful for the life saving interventions when
they really are needed, but many cause more problems if used incorrectly etc.
The more I learn and hear about women, pregnancy and birth, the more I see that
there are tragedies that happen, and they sometimes are part of the `natural`
process of life and birth. Not sure if I am explaining how to express what I am
trying to say, or if this makes sense, it is hard to put into
words.
Birth is a dynamic process and we always have to be on out toes
and expectant, rather than complacent. But as you say Abby, 'the best way to
birth a breech baby is just like any other baby, her way in her
time.'SueAhhh Sue, I wish I had listened to my heart
and sought you for support at my birth when I lived in the Shire. Though, if it
had been a wonderful waterbirth at home I may not be where I am now, supporting
women.
Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re Stillbirth Memory ideas
When my sister lost her baby, my mum, other sister and I had a ceremony together. My sister and I each made her a small, quilted wall piece and my mum gave her a love, hope and charity gold charm. We gave them to her in a memory box that we had decorated. She kept the box hidden away for almost a year and didn't look at it. Now she has the two wall pieces up in her lounge room and she wears her charm. A friend of mine lost her little daughter and I am making tiny rainbow quilt for her. I think the black and white photos are a beautiful idea. I have seen a book and a couple of memorial websites with black and white photos, they are a beautiful reminder. Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet?
Hi, can anyone help me in locating info about the dangers of gentian violet? It was my understanding that in Oz we stopped recommending it quite some time ago because of some dangers?? My sister in America has been told to use it on her 4 week old daughter for thrush. Any info, especially online that I can access and email straight to her would be great. Please correct me if I'm wrong or if you have other ideas about the benefits etc. Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Gentian Violet?
A lactation consultant can help with this. Nicole C Thanks Joy, Nicole and Pinky. I'll pass on the info to my sister. All the info I found on the internet was people recommending it's good to know that it is safe. Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:cold epidurals
Why not just invent an artificial womb that can sit in the loungeroom for nine months with a little window in it so we can watch the fetus develop and if it's not quite 'right' just start all over again and then at exactly 40weeks gestation (no longer of course) open up the cupboard and voila - a baby! Funny you mention this Jo. A young woman I know, her mother is a midwife, is so terrified of pregnancy and birth that she said to me, the only time you'll see me having a baby is when they can grow one in an artificial womb. She was going on and on about the pain of childbirth and how pregnancy is such an inconvenience etc etc. I was shocked and wondered what on earth her mother had been telling her. Her mum works in a public hospital. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: (Adelaide)Meeting to Defend a Woman's Right to Choose
and how dare anyone take that right away. Nicole How dare anyone take away the right to live. It is a life being terminated. If I was about to be killed because someone decided I should be, then I sure hope someone would speak out for me. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Reclaiming Our Choices in Childbirth Conference 2005
Hi, Thought some might be interested in this. The speaker line up looks great. http://conference.ican-online.org/index1.htm Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: (Adelaide)Meeting to Defend a Woman's Right to Choose
Do pro abornists ever stop to think about all the 'WOMEN' that are aborted? Very well said.also, what about their RIGHT TO CHOOSE?! There is always so much focus on the right to choose for women to choose abortion, but pro choice people never talk about the person being killed and their choice. If it really is pro choice shouldn't it be every body that is involved, their choice. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidurals
It would be nice for us if all women were pro-active in determining their birth plan in advance in collaboration with their primary care-giver, be it GP, Obstetrician , or midwife, but sadly as we all know this is not the case with many women arriving at hospital for their baby's birth with no knowledge of the birth process, let alone knowing the effects of analgesia on bonding or breastfeeding. I know soo many women that have their birth plan fully researched and written out, discussed with care givers and most where caregivers have agreed, they come into the "birthing place" wherever it may be, give out multiple copies and noone takes any notice of them what-so-ever. If these "professionals" have made it so women believe they need them to birth, then these "professionals" need to educate, inform and share knowledge We live in a society of broken families, broken birth lines, mothers who were not even awake for the birth and we were taken from our mothers for hours..how will women learn and become proactive. Yes there are women that take the initiative and become proactive but it takes alot of guts, strength and frustration. It is not as easy as, "well I understand the birthing process and I have a great birth plan and I want a natural birth etc", women come up against fight after fight during pregnancy, labour and postnatally. From the whole, "how about you wee on this stick so I can know that you are REALLY pregnant" to, "we should talk about induction for your "late" baby" to "no really it's routine, you do need this shot of syntocinon" or, " oh! you wanted me to leave the cord pulsating...we couldn't do that, it is against protocol!" The uneducated "knowledge" has come from the people women are meant to trust. It makes me mad when I read or hear comments as above. If a woman has spent 8 months going on her monthly, then fortnightly, then weekly, maybe daily visits to her "professional" care giver, then she should know and understand the knowledge of the birth process. It is not the lack of knowledge on the woman's part that is the problem, it is the lack of educated knowledge shared that is the problem. Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: (Adelaide)Meeting to Defend a Woman's Right to Choose
I need to add that the intentions of my initial posting was merely to inform those who may be interested in attending, I don't see the advantage in voicing our indidviual opinions on this subject under this forum. cheers Megan Hi Megan, I think this was an emotive post so posting to a list of very passionate women is of course going to get individuals replies. For pro abortionists, they want to fight for their choice while, just as fiercely want to fight for womens and childrens choices. For me personally, the right to kill babies is something I cannot ignore, no matter where it is posted or brought up. I am appaulled that this woman is the adviser to the Minister for the Status of Women. She certainly will not be speaking on my behalf or on behalf of lots of the women in Australia. It really made me sick when I read this post. The fact that people assume that all australian women want that right whatever that right may be. Anyway...I am pretty sure everyone here knows my opinions on terminating your offspring. So no more personal opinions from me..until the next time. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: (Adelaide)Meeting to Defend a Woman's Right to Choose
For pro abortionists, they want to fight for their choice while, just as fiercely want to fight for womens and childrens choices. Oopps! This should've read, ...just as fiercely, pro lifers want to fight for womens and childrens choices Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] cold epidurals
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] cold epidurals This is also recommended be the hospitals here for birth of twins. Just in case. I have to say I am sitting here feeling sick to my stomach that this is happening to women, twins or not. What kind of uneducated, misinformation are they recieving to make them want to choose this?? I shudder at so many things that professionals do to women. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Gary Ezzo
been doing the right thing to let the baby cry for hours ... naturally nobody in the house has been getting any sleep and everyone is on edge!! Can anybody help me?Leanne. Hi Leanne, It makes me cringe and cry everytime I hear of another baby being tortured and a family being torn up because of this mans ridiculous teachings. There is a great site with heaps of info www.ezzo.info , I can't help out with a lactation consultant and ezzo has a dodgy way of making mothers believe that other professionals have no idea about child rearing. He uses brainwashing and cultish techniquesgrrr he makes me mad. All in the name of money! Hope you find some good info on that site. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Gary Ezzo
Great site Abby. marilyn It is a great site. I believe we all need to be really aware of this book and this mans teachings, his Becoming Babywise books are fast becoming one of Australias best selling childcare books and to be honest, it is frightening. All the major bookstores carry his books now and some of the stuff in those books is really worrying to me. Because people in the USA have spoken out against it and it is not selling so well now, they have focused marketing on Australia and other countries. It breaks my heart. He also has a great (sarcasm) book on Becoming Birthwise!! Doctors are s wonderful and vitally important did you know??!! Here are some examples of results of Babywise that I know. - 8 month old baby boy, nursing at the breast, accidentally bites his mum so gets flicked on the cheek. Same little guy is whacked, hard on his legs if he looks around while nursing and doesn't focus on the feed. - 7 week old baby left to cry because of her manipulative, sin nature. When told baby looks hungry mother replies with, no, she just is manipualtive. - baby cries on and off for 4 hours during the night while neighbours in flats listen wondering what could possibly wrong only to find out the next day that parents just leave him to cry. He needs to learn to self settle - 5 day old shut in a room by himself because he is being manipulative - father in hospital says that mum needs to start implimenting PDF ( parent directed feeding) when baby is just 2 hours old. I could go on and on and these are only stories from the very small group of people I know that use Babywise. It has been linked to failure to thrive, malnutrition, lots of mums only being able to feed for 6 weeks due to their milk supply disappearing, babies not wanting to feed because it is so traumatic. That is only for the babies, then he has Babywise 2 for toddlers in which you should hit your 5 month old if they want to touch their food because they need to learn highchair manners! I fell physically ill talking about it. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Fw: Joyous Birth Fw: axing of ABC George Negus
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:30 AM Subject: Joyous Birth Fw: axing of ABC George Negus Subject: axing of ABC George Negus Dear friends, I have just rung the ABC to congratulate the showing of a homebirth. Spoke to a VERY upset producer who informed me that she was tooupset to make comment as the program had just been 'AXED' !We need to call make our comments known. The number in melb for ABC is03) 96261500Please take the time callRegards Annie -- Annie Sprague, Independent Midwife34 Shiers StAlphington 3078WWW.clickonto.com.au/birthEvery woman and every baby and every family have the right to Joyous Birth! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/joyousbirth/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[ozmidwifery] Fw: [ozbirthing] FW: private midwife PLEASE
Sue Cookson, are you on this list? This is your area I think. Love Abby -Original Message- From: Monica Falconer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 25 October 2004 11:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: private midwife PLEASE Hi My name is Monica Falconer. I live between Byron Bay and Ballina NSW and would dearly love to be put into contact with a Private Midwife in our area. There are many Doula's but I have been unable to find a Midwife. PLEASE HELP if you can. Also great articles in the Sunday newspaper yesterday. Many thanks for any help --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 22/10/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 22/10/2004 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/ozbirthing/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] BMid Info Session
Hi, Today I attended the information session for the direct entry BMid at UTS. Sounded interesting, lots of people there, but I must admit I was disappointed to learn the NO alternative therapies will be taught. No herbs or anything. I find it so hard to accept that, in a course teaching about natural birth, alternative things can't be taught because they are apparently not evidence based but all medical interventions will be taught?? Sorry to rehash this subject I really don't want to get in another arguement about it. I went with a positive outlook and came away very disappointed. I find it hard to understand how learning to facilitate natural birth would include all medical interventions, but not all the natural tools we can use. How can student midwives learn to really be with woman if they are not given a chance to learn all the skills involved? To me it does still seem so medical. I really believe that the proof is there with alternative therapies, maybe just not the type of evidence that the medical professionals will accept. I really am feeling so disappointed as I was excited to go and see what was happening and maybe even get a little more tempted to study midwifery here, but now I just feel disillusioned. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Homebirth Poem by Matire O'Connor
No rush to get to hospital on time! No hospital gowns. No identity crisis. No clocks. No drips. No drugs. No rush to produce this baby. No poking or prodding. No stirrups. Just privacy. And freedom. No superbugs. No strangers. No waiting-rooms. No wiring up your womb to a fetal heart monitor. No screwing electrodes into your baby's scalp. No false positives, no rush to get the baby out. No 'emergency' section. No theatre lights, no high trolleys. No metal, no Dettol. Only the peace of your own bed in your own room. And your own germs. No amniotomies, no episiotomies. You want your perfect body intact. No rush to take your baby away. No nurseries. Early labour? Go for a walk. Go for a swim. Clean out the cutlery drawer. Call the shots. Call your midwife. Play music. Make coffee. Sit in the bathroom. Be on your own. Knowing your midwife is half the battle. You know your midwife for nine months. She tells you to take your time. No rush, no fear. Lie in a hot bath, or sit in a birth pool. Water eases the stress of labour. He holds your hand, makes hot toast, Massages your back, boils water. Your midwife listens to the baby's heartbeat. You trust her, and feel safe. No pushing, no pulling, no panic. No rush to get the baby out. You give birth standing up, or sitting down. Body wide open, baby slips out. You come back from earth. No rush to cut the cord. You watch it together, admire its rainbow colours. Marvel at this pulsating thing which has kept your baby alive. Three hearts beat in time. There is no rush. Only time. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Caesarean Debate on channel 9
Found this on another list.it was originally posted on Essential Baby. I am a producer at Channel 9 researching a story on the debate between people who support and oppose elective caesareans. I would like to talk to people who are interested in participating in this story If you would like to discuss this issue please contact Glenda Gaitz at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Has anyone studied through UTS?
Hi, Was just wondering a couple of thingshas anyone studied mid through UTS? If so, how did you honestly find the training? Woman centred or medical? Evidence based, natural etc? Also, does anyone know anything about Jill White the dean and how she views birth, her attitudes etc? They are starting BMid there next year and I am kind of tempted..well sort of..depending on what the teaching would be like. Does anyone know who any of the lecturers will be? Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] FFP
I believe all midwives and midwifery students should first ask themselves whether or not they want support from and association with any party that endorses a candidate who claims on national radio/print media/TV that all lesbians are witches and should be burnt at the stake. Maybe time to tread lightly, miriam Hi Miriam, I think most women on here would agree that we don't particularly agree with all that the parties in power stand for and say etc, but what this is about is finding support for women and birth. If they are going to be in power in the senate, then they are one party to lobby, we have to try and work with whatever we get when it comes to politics. I also read that it was one of their volunteers that said that comment..I don't know though, we don't have the TV so don't really get all the media hype. I also think that we can't believe everything we hear or read in the media. That's not to say that some weirdo might say that, even though it is not the way Jesus would act at all as he hung out with the outcasts of society, but I think that in the media things are blown way out of proportion, especially when it comes to christians. I believe we need all the support we can get to have the policies re: one to one midwifery, PI, birthing options etc changed in this country. It does not mean we have to form associations with parties, it just means gaining their support for midwives, women and birth. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] FFP
Dear All, The family First party are not a religious party, but a put the welfare of the family first party based on judeo-Christian principles (as are the Laws ofour country, our constitution etc). I heard the SA rep speaking and this came from his mouth. I then checked out the website and found nothing on maternity issues, but they are only a young party. I was disappointed though.Dear Abby, I believe God has called me to be a childbirth educator as a mission to women to empower them to trust in their God-given ability to birth their babies without intervention (Eve had only Adam to support her!). So yes, hopefully things will be changing! Love Fiona (grad/dip CE student).- we met at Active Birth Hi Fiona, I do believe that FF claim to not be a religious party, but they are strongly affiliated with AOG churches, from my understanding. Doesn't bother me, either way, every party is affiliated with something or someone. It is such a shame that they don't mention maternity issues/policies etc, but lots of parties and people don't see it as an important issuein my opinion it should be one of the most important issues. I think it's fantastic that God has called you to work with and encourage women. I believe He sparked my passion tooyou know "all things work together for good." Remind me what you look like? I am trying to remember who you are. Where do you live?
Re: [ozmidwifery] FFP
christians were the backbone of the homebirth movement and I am wondering if this is so with the FFP and if they would support midwives and PI insurance, NMAP etc.pondering marilyn Hi Marilyn, I have been thinking about that all day. To be honest, I don't know where they stand, but I think them more than any other party, could be easily convinced of the necessity of midwives, continuity of care, NMAP and PI. It is so strange how in america, as you say, the christians were the backbone of the homebirth movement, but here I have met hardly any christian women that trust in the design of their birthing bodies..maybe that will soon change. I am working on getting together a letter to send to Family First. I know there are some wonderful scriptures that support natural birth, midwifery and breastfeeding so I am on a mission so to speak!lol! I think, if approached from the right angle, honestly and biblically, that they would see the reality and the need. I noticed on their website that they are interested in mental health issues and I really want to work with that. We all know what a difference it would make to mums and their children, then society, if birth was bought back to its natural elements and if mothers had the care and support that they deserve. Just like that saying, gentle birth for a peaceful earth Could go on and on.I didn't know how I felt about them at first, still don't really, but what I do know is that I can speak their language more so than any other party, if that makes sense. They look pretty conservative thoughdon't know how they'd react to a dreadlocked, pierced, birth activist! We'll seelots of young christians are breaking out of the stereotypes and AOG churches usually have thriving youth groups. A woman on another list, (Janet are you on here?) has written to them to ask where they stand with midwifery so I'll let you know their response. wrote to another list earlier that good or bad, for midwifery and birth, I think it could be quite positive. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Trading place for midwifery and birth resources??
Hi, Is there any online trading place for people into birth in Australia? There are a few in the US that I have bought stuff from but I'd love to tap into any in Oz. I am a bit of a women and birth book fiend and love buying secondhand stuff so if you know of any please send a link. thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Midwifery Today Conference
Hi, Most people on here would probably know about this, but for those who don't, it looks like a great conference! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/conferences/eugene2005/program.asp Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Free standing birth centre idea
Hi, As much as I LOVE the idea of homebirth for all womenlolI know lots of women feel safer birthing in a birth centre or hospital. I do have a dream for an amazing birthing place, one day. Anywaythere is a great, practically new, birth centre attached to Nepean Hospital. I think it was used for about 6 months and has been closed for about three years ( don't quote those numbers because I am not definite), what I was thinking is that I wonder if someone could take it over as a free standing birth centre. The reasons for it being closed are not really clear, but mainly revolve around funding I think, so, I think in my idealistic mind, why couldn't someone take it on and so it was run as a seperate entity, yet attached to the hospital? Is this too way out? Who could do it? I have no idea, but I think it could work if someone knew how to make it work. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: What the Pollies are offering Midwifery? and women
Indeed, the Bible is full of dreadful cruelties towards women and children. Most of them God ordained...David Hi David, The Bible also has some beautiful and amazing things about women, children and babies. I don't want to get into a "it says, he says, she says" kind of thing, but just thought I would point out the positives as well as the negatives. There are some things in the Bible I would never be able to understand or defend, but there are also lots of amazing things aswell. Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Doppler anyone....?
So imagine the excitement, joy and peace of mind you could get frombeing able to hear your baby's heartbeat and movements. OR the terror and anxiousness from not being able to accurately find the heartbeat, or worry from an irregular or slow heartbeat!!and then the extra drs visits and ultrasounds to make sure baby is okay. Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] Induction by Rupture of Membranes
Hi, I've got a question about hospitals inducing etc. I have a client going to St George public and her EDD was the 5th, mum and bubs are doing wonderfully, heads 3/5 engaged, heart rate fine etc. Went to see doc today who swept and stretched, clients words, that was OMG that was painful, male doc. She's booked in for AROM on the 18th. After recent discussions about AROM, I am just wondering why anyone would suggest this? I thought first course of hospital action was prostagladin? What is the thinking behind trying to get labour started with AROM? From what I understand, a lot of you believe it is sometimes beneficial in second stage, so why would anyone think it was good for getting things started? Of course you all know how I feel about any of that, lol! But my job is to be there and support my client in whatever she chooses so, I've got a few ideas of natural induction techniques does anyone else want to share some too? My client is really keen for a natural birth with minimal interventions, she had a very traumatic experience last time (her words). She has read some great books and I am not really sure why she is just going along with what is happening but I want to give her some good natural options. Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Induction by Rupture of Membranes
Hi Leanne, If your client wants a normal birth she should avoid an induction unless it is medically indicated, not just because she is a couple of days past her due date. I know! I know! I actually don't understand why she is choosing to go along with it, she is very educated and has lots of great information so I guess it is something she wants to do. Thanks so much for the info about AROM etc and thanks so much for reminding me about time limits I had forgotten that and I will mention it to her. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Catty midwives
Hi Trish, I think we must be completely misunderstanding each other. As for the doula thing...well I think I made myself clear during the whole doula vs midwife conversation. I don't know how you see that what I was saying is in any way an attack on midwives, I am really sorry if it came across that way, as I said before, that was not my intent. I value midwives, appreciate midwives and have met some very amazing and inspiring midwives as also in the doulaing world. I know of no doula trainer that would be in it for the money. At the recent doula conference, alot of the trainers were there and I think everyone that was there would agree that the trainers were all in it for the women. I don't claim to be a professional anything nor do I hide behind just a mum I think you have misread what I was saying. I am not, by saying who I am, saying that nothing I say is valid, quite the contrary. I am really sorry Trish, that you see my disagreement with some opinions as pot shots. I actually see my opinion as valid as learned and as a consumer. I am unlearned against the training of a midwife, but am learned from what I have done through midwifery courses, doula training and self study. Though, most my learned opinions come from spending time with women, battered or not so battered, by the system. I'm sorry my comments came across as an attack. Please accept my apology, I had no malice toward midwives in my comments, I was stating my opinion and things I understood and had learned. Midwives (99.8% of them) are women, too. Many of them also identify as 'just a mum' (1/3 of my students are mothers in grad program, and about 1/2 in undergrad), and they would appreciate other mothers such as yourself standing with them.. I have to admit that I am not sure how I am not standing with them by disagreeing with the way the education system for midwives is? I believe, from reading your comments such as this one, that you are not understanding what I am saying. You could be a really useful pain in the for the slack and crappy care providers out there Oh Trish, if only you knew me in real life... (not supported by the evidence, however, as most women are happy with the care of midwives in whatever setting, so perhaps we need to tap into your samples, Abby). Could you direct me to the place where that evidence is Trish? As part of being a doula I have to get credit points each year and hand in reports, book reviews, attend workshops and we are encouraged research about everything we learn from all sides. ( I guess that answers your earlier thoughts) So i would love to read up on this evidence and write a report on it. I think it is fantastic that women are happy with services, how wonderful for those women. Unfortunately though, I get contacted mostly by the women that have had traumatic birth experiences, been treated badly etc etc. I also have friends that have had amazing experiences. Once again I will say that I think you have misunderstood my writings. I am not anti midwives, gosh not at all! I admit I am anti hospitals as an institution for birth, but that is a very personal choice for women and I respect that. I am sorry if I have said anything that offends you personally, really I am. I had no idea that speaking out about midwifery training in australia would be so offensive. The midwives and students I have spent time with felt the same way as I do, infact they opened my eyes to it. I hope your throat is feeling much better soon. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: uterine rupture 1998
I believe that you are coming from the right place in your heart, but sometimes we need to take a step back think about how others may perceive us if we want to be listened to at all. I am speaking as someone who has learnt this lesson skill recently. Your opinion is valued.Philippa ScottBirth Buddies Thanks for the advice Phillipa, I'll keep that in mind. lol! Funny how it seems that I don't already do that. It is hard with plain text. I'm sure it wouldn't of caused such a problem if I was talking IRL about it..or maybe it would because it does go against the grain, or maybe it would because I am not a midwife and haven't been there..who knows. I definitely didn't mean to cause any offense, I really was talking about the system. I will keep your advice in mind and keep on trying. Love Abby- always learning always standing corrected.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Labours commitment to PI insurance (X posted! sorry!)
This will be done byJuila Gilliard and it will focused on providing solutions to thelack of PI insurance country wide, not just for the NT. He sounded sincere and i really think they will deliver for midwives.Kirsten. Darwin. ~~~start life with a midwife~~~ That's excellent and inspiring news Kirsten! Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Question about Chickenpox
I was only about 5 days into my first week of midwifery training ( never had it as a child). Hope all goes well. Regards, Tina H. (Brisbane) Thanks Tina, we went to the docs today and it is not chickenpox. Her few spots on her arms and chest cleared up, she is prone to rashes, and she instead broke out in ulcers all through her mouth, about 15. My poor little girl, it must be so painful. The doc said it was some kind of viral mouth ulcer thing so we are just taking it easy, eating lots of soft bland food and I am washing my hands heaps. I got some great homeopathics from Brauer, one called Recovery for kids which seems to be helping amazingly. thanks again Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Catty midwives
Apology accepted Abby, and I meant pain in the as a true compliment. Trish Thanks Trish! I hope our paths cross one day. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: ARm was Re: [ozmidwifery] VE
I suggested that perhaps that was one of the hazards of her profession? Grr!!! Jo x HOMEBIRTH! HOMEBIRTH!HOMEBIRTH! Do you think there will come a day when the majority of women will stop putting up with medical professionals bullshit and start trusting themselves? I cringe when I hear some of the things that are said to women. Aren't bodily fluids a big part of labour? Isn't it about serving women not keeping yourself clean? I can understand the risks of infection, disease etc nowadaysso wear a eye shield, but don't stuff around with the natural process. I so believe that there is hardly ever a time, like probably 1%, when there is a real need for intervention and not necessarily medical. Sometimes all it takes is a change in position. I find it very unnerving that the traditional, natural methods are not taught to most aspiring midwives. It is scary, I don't know why women think they are so safe in hospitals??? (disclaimer: this comment is about hospitals and midwifery training in general, I am sure there are some amazing midwives in hospitals that are really with women and I am sure there are aspiring midwives that take it on themselves to learn from the wise ways of women.) Love Abby ~ who is a little shocked about some midwives opinions towards unnatural interventions. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: uterine rupture 1998
Hi Belinda, I will throw a flame - what is a traditional midwife and why is this person always without faults and seemingly all knowledgeable and sanctified. I don't think anyone thinks that traditional midwives are without faults or sanctified, however, I do believe that in their education they learn more about the natural processes than in our current midwifery courses. I don't think this makes them anymore or less, though, they often have less rates of intervention. Why should I as a midwife capable ofmanaging women with induction's, ctgs, multiple iv lines and drugs, catheters, monitors, ventilated babies, suction, uvcs uacs etc etc be classed as something other (therefore subtextually less than) this traditional midwife - where is she for sick women and babies who deserve a midwife. I believe traditional midwives are different. They often learn from another woman, on the job training so to speak, the wise ways rather than from books, in a classroom, in a hospital, from menetc. I guess the main difference I see, is that they don't see it as "managing" women or labour. In todays studies, from what I understand, student midwives are taught more about interventions and how to "manage" labour, rather than trusting a woman to birth her baby her way. Unfortunately much of the interventions you mention above are because of the system, not because women need them. Obviously there is a need in a very minimal percentage of cases, but most these interventions come from the way we are taught to believe birth has to be and from a lack of traditional knowledge within the hospital system and within women. I don't think this is the midwifes own problem but it stems from the training and conditioning. It is kinda like the difference between a naturopath and a doctor, one is naturally, wholistically trained ( though these days mostlythrough a college) and the other is medically trained, and not often wholistically. Please do not separate midwives, it maintains the divide and conquer problem which means we can do less than if we accept diversity and stand together. I think diversity is wonderful, though I would not put doctors and naturopaths in the same category. Would you not agree that current midwifery studies are not based on traditional, wise ways or even evidence based care in some schools? I find it hard not to seperate the two. That does not mean that midwives who are training now aren't good midwives, but they certainly are trained more as obstetric nurses and have to work hard to learn for themselves the wise and traditional ways of women. This traditional midwife vs obstetric nurse stuff is a huge bug bear of mine. I attend homebirth as well and am quite confident and comfortable independently, but my ability to work in labour wards and NICU settings does not mean I work as an obstetric nurse - ever. I also work very hard with students and know full well the dilemmas they endure in their training and can understand their frustration. Unfortunately, I've got to leave it there, just found my daughters first chickenpox and she is radiating heat. Great discussion though and I would love to finish this email another day. Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998
Hi Trish, Abby, could I ask where you are studying midwifery??? I'm not studying midwifery, nor did I say that I was. I do know quite a few students and midwives and have had numerous discussions with them about what they do and don't learn. I've read a fair bit about 'wise' women, don't romanticise some half-forgotten past. Don't idealise a model of training and education that isn't open to the scrutiny and evaluation of all its stakeholders. To talk about traditionally trained midwives is like talking about clouds. I think people have misunderstood what I am saying. I am not saying that traditional midwives are amazing godesses from the planet of enlightenment, I am saying that there is a difference between the way women use to learn and the way they learn now. Midwives are trained differently now, is that not correct? There is a difference in learning, there are big differences in what is taught etc etc. I do think it is very sad that student midwives no longer learn traditional methods in their training, wouldn't people agree with that? Why does "traditional" ways of learning mean that they are not open to "scrutiny and evaluation of all its stakeholders" Why not have a training program, apprenticeships etc for midwives that want to work with women at home or that was based on trusting a woman to birth and then have training for midwives that want to work in the hospital system etc? Why not have training that focuses on non intervention rather than focusing on intervention and having medical "tools" rather than natural tools? I know of midwives that couldn't give a stuff about the women they are caring for and want to work in an interventionistic way in hospitals and then I know midwives that want to work with women in their homes but don't feel like they got the training to support that. Similarly, to say most student midwives in Australia are taught obstetric nursing is an affront to those of us who struggle very hard to create curricula and learning opportunities to subvert systems that oppress women and midwives while allowing them to work safely in the system that is out there. Isn't it true though, that what is taught is more about working in the system than being with the women. From what I have heard, from conversations between student midwives and some qualified midwives is that they wished they had learnt more about being with women, natural ways of dealing with challenging, unexpected situations in labour and also to trust more in a womans ability to birth her baby. Would you have them learn for some ideal world in the future while the women of today suffer a lack of midwives who can work with them now? Why not learn for the ideal now, foster the trust of birth and then learn all the other stuff, why does it have to be the other way around. Why not teach student midwives the reverence of birth and women rather than foster the belief that birth is something that needs to be meddled with and fixed? I am not saying that this is what you in particular do, but isn't it true to say that a lot of universities do that? To be honest, I do think women already "suffer a lack of midwives who can work with them now". Have you listened to the incredible amount of stories coming from women who had their babies in a hospital setting, you know 6 months down the track when they start really thinking about what happened to them? Horrible "midwives", being treated like crap, not being acknowledged. I think that the majority of hospital "midwives" are not trained to work with women now, they are trained to work with the system, not the women. I'm with Belinda. While I believe not all midwives have the same qualities or levels of skill, it serves no purpose to create a schism, to pit us one against the other, but rather we should walk a mile in each others shoes and learn to critically evaluate why we are as we are, and determine how to make it better without blame and finger-pointing. I think that people are missing what I am saying because of already a set defensive attitude. I am not putting one AGAINST another, merely pointing out that yes, there are differences. I think it is hard to disagree with there being differences. Any blame and finger pointing I have is at the system not at any particular category of midwives. The 'lay' midwives I know, the homebirth midwives I have been priveleged to work alongside, and the 'direct entry' midwives I have met and am now helping to educate, are expected to be able to provide the spectrum of care not just for well women, but also for those who have emergencies and illness. These women need competent, fast thinking, appropriately acting midwives with a heart, and who can use EVERY tool at their disposal. I agree with the above completely, but I would ask, does the current training program for student midwives equip them with every tool? From what I have heard, no. I was at a very
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: uterine rupture 1998
I have spoken to a woman who ruptured after a very natural homebirth. It can happen even when all seems to be going well and no intervention has occurred fortunately she was okay although it was touch and go at one stage. She can no longer have children. I know midwives(independent) who believe the percentage for uterine rupture after a caeser to be around 12%. Hi Amanda, It is fortunate that she is okay, though very sad that she can't have more children. Thanks for sharing about her story, I haven't heardanyones storyin a natural, unhinderedVBAC before. Wow 12 % is a lot, I have never heard of that high a percentage before. the most I have heard of was 4% and that was from a scaremongering website. These are some of the rates I have read about. To be honest, I would be very worrisome about an independent midwife whose clients have a 12% rupture rate. "For the last 2 decades the uterine rupture rate has been documented by dozens of reputable studies to be stable at approximately 1%, with a low range of 0.5% to as high as 1.8%. The major point of difference between the high and low numbers is whether or not the labor was induced or augmented with prostaglandins and/or Pitocin." http://www.collegeofmidwives.org/prac_issues01/VBAC_waiver_2003.htm "80% (11,000 of 13,500) of single previous cesareans underwent a TOL with an 83% success rate and rupture rate of 0.6% and a rupture-related perinatal death rate of 0.18 per 1000 trials of labor. 54% (1600 of 3000)of two previous cesarean had a TOL, with a 75% success rate and a rupture rate of 1.8% and a perinatal death rate of 0.63. 30% (240 of 800)of three or more prior cesareans had a TOL, with a success rate of 79% and a rupture rate of 1.2% and no rupture related deaths (of course, the numbers in this group are much smaller -- only n=240 who had TOL, so a larger group would be needed to really observe the risks-- although I wonder where you might find a larger group?) " http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/icanvbac.html#Safety "I just opened the report from The Public Citizens health Research Group and here are some rupture stats: Flamm 1990 5,733 women laboring for VBAC, 10 ruptures (0.17%), Farmer 1991, 7,598 women, 61 ruptures, (0.8%), Meehan 1989; 1,350 women 6 ruptures (0.4%); Nielson 1989 1,008 women, 6 ruptures (0.6%)" Here is a great article if anyone wants to read it, just full of tidbits of information about the likelihood of rupture as opposed to being struck by lightning http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/vbacrisk.html Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: uterine rupture 1998
There is such a wide variation about how people are trained. I feel pretty lucky to have has midwifery training and then apprenticed with a group of midwives. I worked for about 18 more months as the apprentice. This was a fantastic time. One of the women who inspired me (Hi Annie Pop) told me that the longer I spent working in the hospital the more fear I would learn. I am eternally grateful t her for encouraging me to move out of hospitalised birth earlier rather than later! This is one way to blend the medicalised training with wise woman training.I believe that we need to work more with the wise women and I am still learning from and in awe of my mentors here in Fremantle (Hi Theresa and Mary). That's fantastic Sally. Were you able to apprentice with them as part of your practical training ie. was it able to be included as part of your course? Is this possible all over australia? Did you also have to work in the hospital? Sorry for all the questions, friends and I often talk about these things. I would love to study midwifery, though, I don't know if I want to "work" as a midwife. I would really love to volunteer as a midwife and offer support to women whenever the need arised. I am very reluctant to train in australia though and would love to train at a traditional midwifery house in the US, then apprentice with an independent midwife...but that would cost alot. So if apprenticing is an option in australia, that certainly makes it more appealing. I had the understanding that through australian training you had to do your prac in hospitals or, if you're very lucky, a birth centre, but that you are not able to do it with independent midwives. Please anyone correct me if I am wrong, I would love to be! lol! Our doula trainer, who is a midwife, said a similiar thing to us about hospitals and fear. I think it is so related to the fact that the only time you go to hospital when you are well is if you are having a baby. You go to hospital to get fixed and that is what is happening to women, that idea that birth is something that needs to be fixed. love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterinerupture 1998
Hi Trish, Abby, if I didn't think I was trying to impart a degree of wisdom, and assist students to find their own wisdom, together with the women (heard of the follow-through experience???) and the lovely midwives in hospitals who assist them with onsite learning, and the VERY occassional homebirth midwife who can take a student... then I would give it up. With (diminishing) respect, evaluate a curriculum or two, enrol in a midwifery program, and don't generalise what you see in a workshop of 10 midwives to what is taught in every curriculum in Australia. I don't know why, because I disagree with the training that I know of, this means that disrespect is okay. Whoa. I am just a mum, passionate about women and birth, with a voice. Please disagree with me, but I don't think comments like (diminishing) respect are necessary or helpful. I'm not really into personal attack in disagreements..well only with my husband! Maybe because I am only a mum and not a midwife then you see my opinion as threatening or not worth noting, so that warrants disrespect?? I don't know.whatever. I am not generalising from one workshop I attended. I believe in testimony as a conveyancer of truth. I have listened to qualified midwives, student midwives, teaching midwives, international midwives and student midwives,that have quit their courses because of lack of education, testimonies and stories of there education, or lack there of. I don't know where they went to school or trained, I do know they are/were unhappy with it. I'm going to leave it there Trish. I think you are seeing what I am saying in a really wrong light. I do not, never have and never would claim to have all the answers or even one answer. I do not claim to know how to fix the worlds problems or stop all maternal deaths. What I do know is that most birthing practices in this country suck! Women are being treated poorly by alot, not all, caregivers and something needs to change. I am a dreamer and a hoper. I find nothing wrong in dreaming of a better future for women in birth. I don't want to argue about this curriculum says this and this says that blah blah blah, I wouldn't even know. I only know what women have shared and what I have read. It would be a great shame if you quit midwifery. You seem a strong, knowledgeable woman committed to women, change and education. I think it is wonderful that teachers like you exist. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Question about Chickenpox
Hi, Wondering if any of you know if chickenpox can be carried by someone that doesn't actually have the virus? I am sure there is a word for this but I don't know what it is. My dd has chickenpox, we are pretty sure, and I have a client who could call at anytime. Wondering if you think it is safe to support her. Could I carry the virus? I had the pox when I was little and ended up in hospital so I am pretty sure I won't get it again. Thanks in advance for replies. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998
Many of the skills we learn don't come from the uni itself, it's when we are on clinical placements and with our follow thru woman that we learn the most. I am forever indebited to the woman who have allowed me to be with them and to the amazing midwives who offer their advice and support. It is them all who i learn the most off, not textbooks, not the uni.Cheers,Kirsten Darwin. Thanks for sharing about your uni Kirsten. It is great to hear positive comments about learning. It's also really great to hear about you working with independent midwives. Is this possible all over Australia, with every uni? Thanks Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Cochrane review on ARM
Further to the ARM discussion whether we like it or not some women will ask for ARM knowing all too well that it does significantly shorten labour!!! The full review is available on the Cochrane website.lisa Thanks for that Lisa. In all the info I had read and been taught, the average was 30minutes. I'm off to look at the full review now. Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998
Anyway, I hope my current perspective as a student is helpful.Jen 3rd year BMid, Melbourne Thanks Jen for sharing. It is such a shame that there is not the opportunity for practice of the theory you are learning. I was just recently talking to a friend about that. She had brought it up after watching a discussion on the BMid list. I often even wonder what is "normal" in our society, as in "Abby, I think the high standards that ACMI has set for us help ensure that we do know normal. Granted, this is still the hospital setting, but until community midwifery is more widely available to women midwives, the reality is that the majority of student midwives cannot gain experience in this setting." Is normal natural? (Just asking the question out loud) Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: uterine rupture 1998
The system is not perfect and in many cases is abhorrent, but comments such as yours makes one wonder why one bothers at all! How far does it go when we discuss the traditional midwife? Are we all to be walking around drunk, with warts on our noses?! Sorry couldnt help that!! But it is just this very subject that insults many midwives, especially those of us who work our butts of in hospital units to provide the best care we can.lisa Wow, some of you women sure are catty! Why so defensive? It's the system I was commenting on. My comments gatheredfrom women that have been involved in that system. What do you all do if a client comments on you personally? Do you get your backs up at them? No wonder women hardly ever want to complain about the crap care they get, it's scary!! (sigh) In my original response about midwives not being the primary carer in intervened labours eg someone wrote about that in regards to the VBAC case, my point was that the way midwives are trained these days they CAN still be the primary carer, which is what alot of the reply posts have been saying. You are saying that you learn to be competent in those circumstances, you know how to care for women in intervened labours etc etc. What comments makes you wonder why you bother?? Why do you bother, is it not for passion for women and birth, because you are drawn to it? If I was saying all midwives suck, leave it to the Obs, why do women need midwives when obs can handle it, I would understand the offense. My "comments" ,whatever offended you, were in no way meant to be offensive. I love midwives that are passionate about women, that see birth as a natural process and that support women whole heartedly. I am sorry if anything I have said comes across as offensive, that was in no way my intent. I sometimesthink I must write in another language. Love Abby (P.S. Haven't met any traditional midwives that are drunkards, with warts on their noses, I can see that that would be an offensive comment if one was a traditional midwife. The midwives I have met IRL and online are amazing women, committed to women 100% and most are very lovely looking.)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Question about Chickenpox
If you have had it then you can work with women, you should be immune now this is the hospital policy at wch Belinda Thanks for that Belinda. It's especially good to hear of hospital policy as I am sure most would have the same policy. I was pretty definite that I couldn't carry it, just wanted to ask the wise women on this list. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998
Kirsten wroteAs for the debate on VE's etc, just because we learn something does not mean we will all go out and perform them every 5 minutes! There are many skills taught to us that could be seen as unnecessary interventions, why as Andrea Robertson in the Midwife Companion ( love this book!) says, talking unnecessarily to a woman in labour and distracting her can slow things down! Personally i would rather be confident and competent in these skills so if i have to do them i am gentle and cause as less harm and discomfort as i can to the woman. I would hate to be ignoarant and say " i don't need these interventionalist skills" and then have to perform a VE and not be able to do it carefully and gently.There are still many woman out there who request them, even if you don't think so. Just wanted to clarify that I was not the only one that said I wasn't really into VEs. I also wanted to clarify that I didn't say that women don't request them, in fact I am sure that many women do. As they also request c-sections, epidurals, inductions and numerous other, mostly, unnecessary interventions. Does this mean then that it is right, physically, morally, ethically etc, to perform these interventions? Or is it better to aim for full education of pregnant women and their support people ( not midwives) so that they can make a fully informed choice themselves? I did "childbirth preparation" classes at a birth centre and it was more like "hospital preparation" classes. Not that all classes are like that. I am wondering how many women REALLY know their bodies, their capabilities, the necessary interventions as opposed to the not necessary etc etc. From being with alot of women just talking in everyday life, and that is heaps and heaps from conservative christians to wild tripped out hippies and ferals, one thing I have noticed heaps is that birthing women never knew that they could say no to VEs, this is discluding women that have decided to really educate themselves, usually after a traumatic experience. Nearly every woman I know or have spoken tothat has birthed in a hospital or birth centre setting has had at least one VE without knowing what it is for. Quite a few have had numerous VEs from different midwives and lots have had differing opinions on how "progressed" they are. Also, quite a few women, that had VEs described them as painful, invasive, humiliating, abusive, weird, unnecessaryand numerous other descriptive obscenities. They also have said they were not given a choice etc. ( If any of you are wondering, I do spend alot of time with mums that have had traumatic birth experiences, some natural occurences, but the majority caused by bad care). I wanted to ask Kirsten, when you said "I would hate to be ignoarant and say " i don't need these interventionalist skills" and then have to perform a VE and not be able to do it carefully and gently.", do you think that if you were "ignorant" and chose not to learn those interventionalist skills, that then your practice would be very different? Would you see things differently in a sense of there may be a problem, challenge etc and you would use non interventionalist skills? I really am interested, because I do believe that what we learn about birth affects our attitude towards birth. I personally don't think that women who choose to not learn interventionalist skills are ignorant. Maybe they see it differently, like they think about it differently, if a real problem did occur, then they would transfer and obstetric "professionals" could deal with that problem. I think that hospitals, interventions and all that stuff are WONDERFUL for life saving, IF, not when, it comes up. I don't believe that just because a woman asks for something then it should be given, I don't believe that is empowering to women or appropriate as a caregiver. Love Abby- sharing my opinion, not fact.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterinerupture 1998
I would also have to argue that many women out there who do not experience the type of birth we desire or see as wonderful and achievable do not see themselves as victims of an uncaring system. I would have to say that many of the women in my study would be pissed off if you categorised them as making poor choices, lacking insight, dreams or hope. Oh Belinda, I don't know how it came across to you that I was saying anything at all like the above. I'm not sure where in my posts this came across, but I am very sorry if it did. I don't know where you see that I was categorising women in that way, but I assure you and others I was not. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
ARm was Re: [ozmidwifery] VE
VEs are like perineal suturing and rupturing of membranes. They are a tool in the professional midwife's kit that should be used with caution, judgement, humanity and great respect. Hi, I wanted to ask when, if ever, anyone would use ARM? From my understanding, and I am completely open to correction, on average ARM only speeds up labour by 30mins if that and it carries with it a higher risk of prolapse, a babys head coming down in the wrong position and also tends to make labour much more painful for women. In my unlearned opinion, that would make it a very unnecessary intervention. I know, for me, it was when my midwife did that, that it all went downhill. I wonder if this often happens to women because it is unnecessary?? So I am curious as to when some people think it is necessary. Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VE, ARM etc..
There is some strong correlational evidence to suggest a shortened labour if ARM is performed late second stage or third stage and this may be of Hi Trish or anyone that knows, Could you please tell me where to find this evidence? This is contradictory to what I have read and learned, so I would like to read from the other side of thinking. Is there any links, books, papers etc that include this evidence? Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: uterine rupture 1998
While I do not support the notion that women desiring vbac are considered high risk or obstetric care, I do believe that once a decision is made to augment and/or induce a labour then the obstetrician needs to be consulted referred to and obstetric protocols need to be followed if the decision is made to augment/induce, even though midwives are providing the one-to-one care, it is now obstetric care. I think the way midwives are trained now, they can still be the carer if induction etc was chosen because they are trained basically as obstetric nurses, not really in the traditional sense of a midwife. (Throw the flames if you want, but this idea comes from student midwives themselves.) Though, I would question any midwife that agreed or suggested medical induction for any woman having a vbac, it hikes the risk factor up by heaps. A scarred uterus is usually only at a higher risk of rupture than an unscarred uterus when unnecessary interventions are performed ie induction. I haven't heard or read of any woman having a vbac that had a uterine rupture that was labouring completely naturally, with absolutely no interventions eg. natural or medical inductions, ve's, ARM etc. I have met one woman that ruptured, not after a c-section, but her second son was born so quickly and ferociously she ruptured. Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] VE
i would be happy to talk more, but would like to see what other midwives think? MM I am not a midwife ( though one day may be), but I too am interested to see what others say. The thought of VEs in labour makes me physically ill. I can still feel that disgusting mans hand checking me while he and the medwife held me down! If only women knew that, no, strangers do not need to put their hands inside you to check your progress. I think that what you said Mary is so important, the art of knowing has been ignored and is not experienced(in general) anymore, so it seems. From what I have learnt and read, VEs do more damage than good. Looking forward to hearing other midwives opinions. It is such a shame that midwives cannot legally have apprentices anymore, this is where aspiring midwives would learn and experience all those amazing aspects of being with woman. Love Abby (P.S. Mary, I think this is quotable! I believe that the art of knowing when a woman is in labour has been sacrificed on the alter of measuring labour by what one finds on vaginal examination. -Mary Murphy -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Fw: [UCbirthnews] New DVD - Unassisted Homebirth of Twins!
Thought this would be an amazing resource! Love Abby Dear Friends, I'm thrilled to announce that I've just added a wonderful new DVD to my bookstore: "Psalm Zoya - The Unassisted Homebirth of Our Twins," a film by Mindy Goorchenko. After watching this film, I immediately ordered 20 copies. Then I went back and watched it two more times. It's THAT good! Mindy caught her first baby herself, and a few minutes later, caught her second one - who came out easily, feet first! This is truly spectacular footage. Although the film is only 20 minutes long, it is well worth the money.Available in DVD only, itsells for $39.99 plus $6 postage and handling. Total: $45.99. To order by credit card call 303-444-4881 (9am-9pm Mountain time)or visit my bookstore for more options - http://unassistedchildbirth.com/books.htm That's all for now. Please feel free to forward this message. Love, Laura Laura ShanleyBornfree! The Unassisted Childbirth Pagehttp://UnassistedChildbirth.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Nataliedash
fairly regularly get a message via ozmidwifery from "Nataliedash" with an attachment and nothing in the body of the message. It invariably has a virus. Maybe the list moderator could block this sender?Lynda Hi Lynda, Nat has checked her machine and she has no viruses, she's not sure how it is coming from her address. I get them too, from Ozmid, but never from anywhere else from Nat and we send each other emails quite often. She has tried unsubbing and resubbing to the list, but this keeps happening. Weird, but no viruses are coming from her computer. Don't think this is much help to find out what the problem is, but thought I would let you know. Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] Good birthing places in Mitcham SA
Hi, A woman on another list is moving to Mitcham SA and is 36 weeks. She is looking at Flinders Medical Centre. Does anyone know of anywhere good to go? Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Good birthing places in Mitcham SA
We can help with options and so on. There is independant mw in the area she is going also. cheers Jo ps when we gunna have that chat Abby? I will be away fro the next two weeks so pencil me in your diary for the following weeks! Thanks Jo. I passed on the Birth Matters number already and also the numbers of Cares and Maternity Coalition. Just found a birth places summary on bubhub I think. One of the summarized things is Woman chooses birthing style in all the hospitals with birth centres it says yes but in all the others it says in consultation. Gee that peeves me!!! Whos decision is it? Anyway.about that chatthis is how my brain works these days.remember, forget, remember, forget, remember, forget...I am just getting used to my calender and writing things down, so I am putting it in now. Have a good holiday. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Put Midwifery Care on the Agenda Thurs Sep 30
Title: Put Midwifery Care on the Agenda Thurs Sep 30 I'll be there with bells on!! Love Abby - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: Julie Clarke ; OzMid List ; Pat Brodie ; Hannah Dahlen ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Lisa Metcalfe ; Nicole Christensen ; MC NSW Branch Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 12:21 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Put Midwifery Care on the Agenda Thurs Sep 30 Dear AllAs part of Maternity Coalitions election campaign, women are gathering outside Jackie Kellys electorate office in Penrith to highlight the lack of choice in maternity care (and particularly that the Nepean Birth Centre has remained closed for 3 years).Jackie Kelly is the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and is the member that the PM chose When launching his Medicare Package. Jackie was the Government rep at the federal launch ofNMAP in September 2002. Despite her personal support her Gov has done nothing to give women andfamilies choice in maternity care. We plan to remind her on Thursday Sep 30.We plan to make a strong and positive statement of the need for an election commitmenton what is such a critical part of a woman and families life.If you can possibly come we would appreciate your support.When: Thursday September 3011amWhere: Jackie Kellys electorate officecnr of Woodriff and Tindale StreetsPENRITHMore Details: Justine Caines or Jo Hunter0408210273 47519840
[ozmidwifery] LUDICROUS! Fw: Joyous Birth if this doesn't make you write a letter nothing will!
You have got to read thismy favourite part is where he says, "Home is the most dangerous place to have a baby. " My mind is running trying to figure out where to start with this bunch of BS!! Of course, it would be a male OB!!! When will they learn. - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 7:19 PM Subject: Joyous Birth if this doesn't make you write a letter nothing will! The EditorThe Weekly TimesP O Box 14999Melbourne 3001Tel: 9292 1584Fax: (03) 9292 2697Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Letters must be short and may be edited for space and legal reasons. Names andaddresses must be includedMIDWIFE-ONLY PLAN IS A BABY GAMBLEReplacing obstetricians with midwives will not fix the lack of birthing servicesin the country, argues, DR PIETER MOURIKDoes the Vic Govt really believe its plans to set up midwife-led maternity unitswill relieve the shortage of rural obstetricians?There is no question midwivesare recognised as skilled professionals who do a great job caring for women inlabour. However they are not trained to deal with complications beyond theirexperience or expertise. This is where an obstetrician is required to attend thelabour ward and take over the delivery.A normal delivery does not need an obstetrician in the labour ward, but mostwomen want to have the security that the most experienced person is making thedecisions and is immediately available. Seconds can make the difference betweena happy and successful outcome and a disaster.The silent majority of midwives continue to support the concept of teammidwifery with obstetricians.The vocal minority of midwives, who say they can do without obstetricians, andwho claim they are cheaper as they do not induce labour or perform instrumentaldeliveries or caesareans, are deluding themselves, the public and the Govt. theyare not comparing apples with apples. Midwives purposefully select heatlhy womenwith low risks and transfer those who do not deliver spontaneously to anobstetrician, so their statistics of successful outcomes are good.Women selected as low risk for a midwife delivery are not "no risk", as 30 percent develop problems during the pregnancy or in labour and have to betransferred to an obstetrician.No midwife can guarantee to a pregnant woman she can complete the job, while anobstetrician can always complete the delivery and deal with complications thatmay occur. That is the difference. The 0.2 per cent of women in Vic who chooseto deliver at home take increased risks to themselves and their babies andshould be informed of that fact by the midwife caring for them.Home is the most dangerous place to have a baby. The best compromise is todeliver in a birthing unit at a hospital. Patients can have the best of bothworlds where midwives work in collaboration with obstetricians, not incompetition.Unfortunately, the vocal minority of independent midwives seem to have positionsof influence and have convinced the Govt their wishes are what the majority ofmidwives and women want, when this is not true. These midwives should do whattwo of our local midwives have done: apply to medical school, complete six yearsof training then complete another six years to be a qualified obstetrician.They would be most welcome, particularly in rural centres, to help reverse thedecline in the number of doctors willing to deliver babies.*PETER MOURIK HAS BEEN A CONSULTANT OBSTETRICIAN IN WODONGA FOR 25 YEARS AND ISCHAIRMAN OF THE WODONGA OBSTETRIC SUB-COMMITTEE.Every woman and every baby and every family have the right to Joyous Birth! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/joyousbirth/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [ozmidwifery] LUDICROUS! Fw: Joyous Birth if this doesn't make you write a letter nothing will!
I am not clear where this was sourced from - can you help me out? The letter was published in The Weekly Times in Melbourne. I recieved the email on the Joyous Birth list and forwarded it on. Is that the info you wanted? Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] Fw: [BirthRage] controlling delivery pt 1
Hi, I know this is based on America, but it seems, similiar attitudes are becoming more common here too. Love Abby (P.S. There are three parts to this.) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: [BirthRage] controlling delivery pt 1 " Controlling Delivery "Increasingly, U.S. women choose not to have a conventional birth.By John Pope Of New Orleans Times PicayuneWhen Marilyn Hamilton learned she was pregnant, she was happy - then afraid. She would have no way of knowing when labor would start, how long it would last, how painful it would be and how much damage it might inflict on her and her child.So she plans to delivery by Cesarean section, even though at 21, she might be considered healthy enough to withstand a conventional labor and delivery when she gives birth in January." With the Cesarean section, you get a pretty good idea of when its going to happen and how you're going to feel ," Hamilton said. " I've read up on Cesarean sections and listened to the side effects, and I can handle that " Hamilton, of Slidell, La, is one of the growing number of American women who , doctors say, chose the procedure for a variety of reasons :* they want to schedule the birth so that they won't have to endure long, painful hours of labor.* they are afraid of labor pain* they are anxious about possible complications of vaginal delivery, such as incontinence, the risk of infecting the baby and weakening the muscles that provide support for some organs." Over the last two or three years, doctors are hearing more of these requests, " said Dr. Bruce Flamm of the University of California, Irvine, a spokesman for the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. " We used to think that a Cesarean section with no medical reason is a silly idea. I'm not so certain anymore" The oddest thing is that I dont know whether anyone knows whether this is a good or a bad trend . " In a change from their previous hard-line stance against using the procesudre without a medical reason, increasing numbers of doctors are acceding to their patients' wishes. Though the patient comes first, the doctor clearly benefit from a scheduled procedures. Even though a Cesarean section is a major abdominal operation, more women are delivering this way. From 1989 to 2002, the latest statistics available, the rate of such births rose by nearly 15 percent, from 22.8 percent to 26.1 percent, according to the National Center for Health Statistics. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]BirthRage webpage- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BirthRage Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BirthRage/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[ozmidwifery] Fw: [BirthRage] controlling delivery pt 2
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:02 AM Subject: [BirthRage] controlling delivery pt 2 " Controlling Delivery " Part 2By : John PopeOf the New Orleans Times PicayuneWenner contributed Patriot News reporter David to this storyObstetrics at a CrossroadsIn the Harrisburg region, the frequency of Cesarean sections appears flat, and the percentage is likely below the national average. At Holy Spirit Hospital in East Pennsboro Twp., Cesarean sections accounted for 22 percent of births in the most recent fiscal year. That's a slight decrease from 2002-03, when Cesareans accounted for 23 percent of births, and a slight increase from the previous fiscal year , whenthey accounted for 21 percent, hospital spokeswoman Lori Moran said.Dr. Kenneth Oken, when deliveres babies at Harrisburg Hospital, said he's heard of local women requesting Cesareans for non medical reasons, but "its very unusual. " " Usually, after we've discussed it, they've elected to go for the vaginal delivery, " he said. Oken regards vaginal delivery as slightly safer, and recommends it unless there's a medical reason to do otherwise. On the plus side, Cesareans allow deliveries to be scheduled at 39 weeks, which he said can eliminate a small number of stillbirths. On the downside, an elective Cesarean could prove unwise for a woman planning a large family. Possible consequences , including scar tissue and adhesions, could affect future deliveries, especially for someone who has had more than two Cesareans, Oken said. But Oken realizes his profession has reached a crossroads regarding deliveries and could be on the verge of a time when doctors inform patients about both kinds and patients chose." We are becoming more attuned to the fact that people would ask for (Cesarean) to avoid potential trauma to mom and baby, even though ( such trauma) is very rare, " he said. " We have to listen to what our patients want "He pointed out, however that a surge in Cesareans would drive up delivery costs, because of anesthesia, equiptment, and longer stays would cause space shortages in local maternity wards.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]BirthRage webpage- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BirthRage Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BirthRage/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[ozmidwifery] Fw: [BirthRage] controlling delivery pt 3
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:05 AM Subject: [BirthRage] controlling delivery pt 3 " Controlling Delivery " Part 3By John Pope Of New Orleans Times PicayuneContributing : David Wenner of Patriot-NewsControlling ChildbirthAlthough the United States has been criticized for its high rate of Cesarean sections, the operation is being performed more in other countries , too, according to the World Health Organization. The rates of Cesarean sections as percentages of hospital births in Great Britain and sub-Saharan Africa are about the same in the United States, but in Chile, the figure is 40 percent.The numbers do not show whether the doctors of the patients chose Cesarean sections. In what may be the first study of its kinds, doctors fround 14.7 percent of the pregnant women at New Orleans' Ochsner Foundation Hospital would request Cesarean sections.For years, that option did not exist for women without strong medical reasons, said Dr. Michael A. Finan, an Ochsner obstetrician- gynecologist who participated in the study. Besides, he said, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists had long pressured its members to bring down the rate of Cesarean sections. Criticism included swipes at doctors for encouraging a practice that was more a convenience for them- and a source of added income - than a medical necessity for women." The fact that we found that women are interested in having a C-secion as an option was a surprise, " Finan said. " The fact that 14 percent of women want that as an option is news... it may seem small, but it's a huge number . "The report, based on 157 women's responses to questionaires, appeared in the May issue of Female patient, a peer-reveiwed journal.The main reason women would chose Cesareans was to exercise as much control as possible over giving birth because they have become accustomed to planning othe parts of their lives, said Dr. Elizabeth Lapeyre, an Ochsner obstetrician-gynecologist and the study's lead author.Control is the one factor Ellen Manning to choose a Cesarean section when she gave birth to her second child three months ago. She delivered her first child vaginally after 16 hours of labor.Another component in the decision , she said, was her husbands family history of big babies.Her second child was born weighing 10 lbs,5 ounces. " When my doctor opened me up and saw the baby, she said he never would have come out through the birth canal , " Manning said.Despite the six week recuperation period, she said " I like having a Cesarean section because once you get in and have your epidural ( anesthesia) it takes 20 minutes. "Doctors might be more likely to go along with a woman's request or even recommend the procedure if she is expecting multiple births or has had children by Cesareans. Insurers yield to the doctor's decision and do not refuse to pay for the procedure on grounds that it is elective.The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologist is giving some flexibility to doctors who might not be willing to let women have the last word on how they want to give birth, said Dr. Gariella Pridjian, chairwoman of obstetrics and gynecology at Tulane University Health Sciences Center." The organization said there are situations when a woman can have more autonomy and choose to have a Cesarean section because there isnt sufficient evidence to show that one is better than the other, " she said, " but physicians don't have to perform them if they don't feel comfortable and if they feel the risks of a Cesarean section are greater ( than those) vaginal delivery. " From a strictly medical standpoint, the risk a Cesarean section poses to mother and child has been lowered to where it is equivalent to the risk of giving birth vaginally, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.The debate over Cesarean section versus vaginal delivery has plenty of opinion but no much science, said Dr. Thomas Nolan, cheif of obstetrics and gynecology at Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center .There are plenty of questions , he said.For instance, Nolan said, a Cesarean section requires anesthesia and can result in greater blood loss than a vaginal delivery, but an elective Cesarean section is cost-effective because no labor -and- delivery nurses are needed.For the physician, the Cesarean is worth a few hundred dollars more in fees than natural birth, Nolan said, but the economic advantage grows given that the doctor can schedule Cesareans with some precision and perform more of them in a given period of time.The back-and-forth has left doctors who delivery babies feeling whipsawed, especially if they have been practising for more than 20 years." We came through the ' 70's and ' 80's where we had this swing back to natural deliveries, where people wanted to deliver at home and
Re: [ozmidwifery] going off list for a while
SOrry , but 53 emails is too many to deal with. I'm going off list for a while till things are sorted out Kirsten blacker Wow Kirsten! You only get 53 emails? My husband is happy if there are under 200 a day with all my lists! lol! It use to be about 800 till I unsubbed. It will be good when this gets sorted though. I think Kim is working on it. Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Free Standing Birth Centres
I can hear my littleAkayrii calling for me, so I best get to bed.Goodnight, thanks for sparking the dream again!Love Abby Don't know what is going on, but I sent this email at about midnight last night, seems my emails are taking ages to come through?? love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Abby
I was sent hate email for weeks by having the ordasity to suggest some people are painting cs to be the easiest and safest type of birth and perhaps that is a little concerning as it is not the case.love Jo Lol! I can imagine! One of my clients visits there frequently and was telling me some of the things people write about. I got cut down by a midwife on another site because I was speaking out against the "light" discussion surrounding epidurals when a first time mum-to-be asked about good pain relief for labour. Love Abby (P.S. Thanks for the encouraging words.)
[ozmidwifery] Free Standing Birth Centres
Hi, Is there any such thing in Australia? Or are they all connected to hospitals or government run etc? Is it legal to have a free standing birth centre, if we don't have any in Australia? Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Free Standing Birth Centres
That's why I asked. Ever since I started really feeling "called" to supporting women during pregnancy and birth I have been looking at different ways women choose to birth. Ultimately it would be AMAZING if the 99% of women that could, would birth at home...though, I can't imagine that happening in the near future. Not only because of the costs or availablity, but also because of the way the majority of our culture, and women,think. So..then comes the idea for an amazing birth centre. I would love to hear some others ideas about what would make a good birth centre. I love the idea of The Farm, where families go to stay for a little while before and after the birth. I would love a place that was not just for "low risk" but for all kinds of "risk". A beautiful and inspiring place with outdoor birthing pools, rolling green hills, earth buildings, stone labrynths, complimentry therapies, organic foodah..I love to dream! And a place where aspiring midwives could apprentice with other wise women, maybe even a traditional midwifery learning centre. I can hear my littleAkayrii calling for me, so I best get to bed. Goodnight, thanks for sparking the dream again! Love Abby I'm another with the same dream! TaniaKim .You and I should talk, as I also have this same dream!!! :-)KatrinaGood question Abby! I have no idea but would like to know what the reason isapart from the standard line "not enough anesthetists". One of my dreams is to build one so I will be keen to see if anyone knows the answers!Kim.
[ozmidwifery] Prochiaden and breastfeeding?
Thought some of you wise women could help with a friends query. She has been prescribed Prochiaden 25mg for depression and she is breastfeeding her 2 month old. She was worried about the side effects and what effects that would have on bubs. I thought that most anti depressants would have similiar side effects listed ie. drowsiness, dizziness, nausea(? spelling) Do any of you know much about this drug? are there any safer anti depressants for pregnancy ( DISCLAIMER- I am actually not a fan of anti depressants at all. I believe most depression can be cured with exercise, nutrition and various therapies. However, she is adimant about taking them and so I want to find out the safest). Could someone look it up in, is it Dr Hales, book? Thanks so much. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] abortion and working with women etc
Perhaps its time you turned the attention and energy around and focus on yourself and look at what it is inside yourself that you can't accept. Is this really a serious comment? Because of the fact that I strongly disagree with something, then there is something I need to deal with. So.because I disagree strongly with child abuse, pornography, rape etc etc, then I will need to look inside myself to see what it is that I can't accept?? I am willing to speak out against, what I see as major problems in our world, so this means I have issues. I know I have issues, but I don't see speaking out against the norm as that being a sign of them. worry that someone who works with women regulary would hold such harsh views.How can you care and support them adequetly feeling the way you do? Do you ask each woman before you work with them about their "abortion status" and decline working with them if they have had an abortion? I love the "please don't judge women" comments and then the judgements. To the above statement, as if. If you knew mewell...you obviously don't. Just because I feel strongly against abortion and feel the need to speak out against it, doesn't mean the topic runs my life. I am not even going to answer the second question. So, I am guessing you are perfect, so you can care and support women adequately then? There are so many things in this world that people can disagree on. Here is a list that I think we would all have differing views on smacking children, co-sleeping, natural parenting, drugs in birth, breastfeeding, religion, politics etc etc, does this mean then, that because someone disagrees with you, then they are inadequate carers. What does a woman need to care adequately for a woman? Is it the "right" opinion or is it a heart and passion for her and her journey? Love Abby- please don't throw insults out, while telling me not to be judgemental.
[ozmidwifery] Fw: Joyous Birth Big sigh :) This is lovely
Subject: Joyous Birth Big sigh :) This is lovely http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw104008_20040910.htmGreat, short homebirth story! Love Abby Every woman and every baby and every family have the right to Joyous Birth! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/joyousbirth/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [ozmidwifery] re: abortion etc
Violence is perpetrated against women and children all over the world, lets not equate abortion in this, lets make the world a better place for women and children to be born into and to live. I'm not sure that I quite understand what you are saying, but I think you are saying that we shouldn't use violent sayings when talking about abortion. If that is correct then I would like to ask how you would describe it, if not violent. I believe that abortion is incredibly violent toward the unborn baby eg.dismemberment, limbs being torn fromthe body, being cut up and sucked out through a tube in a process called "menstrual extraction", "suction aspiration" tears the fetus and placenta into small pieces which are sucked through the tube into a bottle and discarded,poisoning-which we all know causes extreme pain in most cases,etc etc, I am not sure how else you can describe these things. They are definitely not loving and kind and gentle. What about the use of aborted babies bodies for research, is that too not violent? Let's face facts it is the killing of a life, life in its simplest most innocent form, how can anyone deny that. Even someone that is pro-abortion, I imagine, would have a hard time denying that those are all violent acts. It can also be very violent to women, physically and emotionally. It is a completely unnatural event, in most cases, and thus immeadiately creates risks. Having a vaccum stuck inside you to suck out the "contents", that you helped create, out of your uterus can of course pose a risk.Different procedures offer different risks, but here is a short list of damage that can be done -hemorrhage, infection, embolism, death, uterine perforation, cervical lacerations, pelvic inflammatory disease, increased risks of breast cancer, ectopic pregnancy, uterine damage etc etc. "National statistics on abortion show that 10% of women who undergo this procedure suffer from immediate complications. (1) Over one hundred different complications have been associated with induced abortion. Minor complications include: infections, bleeding, fevers, chronic abdominal pain, gastro-intestinal disturbances, vomiting, and Rh Sensitization. The nine most common major complications are infection, excessive bleeding, embolism, ripping or perforation of the uterus, anesthesia complications, convulsions, hemorrhage, cervical injury and endotoxic shock. (2) Can you imagine what an honest warning label might read like for such a procedure?! " Mary Cunningham Agee How can we honestly say that abortion is not a violent act, against a mother and her child. these are only the physical risks, but many women carry emotionalscars all their lives. Just as we see women very uninformed of the risks of intervention during childbirth, we too see the very uninformed choice of abortion. By trying to not see the reality of abortion procedures ie. how violent they are, are we not exactly the same as the doctors that gloss over intervention in pregnancy and childbirth? This is a quote from www.plannedparenthood.org and the kind of glossing over I am talking about A tube is inserted through the cervix into the uterus. A hand-held instrument gently empties the uterus. Please someone tell me where is the description of the "hand-held" instrument? Where is the description of what happens to the baby? How at all does this empower women in their choices? I wasn't going to enter my own thoughts into this but I am sick of women being told BS and am tired of people trying to see abortion as a "gentle" and loving thing to do for an unwanted baby. How many women do you think would really have an abortion if they could see the reality of what goes on, from what the drugs administered are doing to their bodies, to the baby being ripped apart, to a part of the being taken away? I appreciate Jeanine as she is talking about real empowerment. Encouraging women to take control of their fertility and their bodies rather than being fed BS about their "choices" ( obviously if a woman is raped then it is not her choice, but she should still be told about the realities of her choices. Some women that are raped feel like they get raped a second time if they have an abortion. I can't find the link but I think it was something like 1% of abortions in Australia are because of rape.) I find it so distressing that abortion is used as a general form of "birth control". Apparently "98% of abortions are for convenience (these reasons do not include medical purposes, rape or foetal deformities)." This email has bevome very long, so I will send a seperate one for other distressing facts about abortion. Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] Abortion Facts in Australia
Here are some, what I find, disturbing facts about abortion in Australia. -There are 100,000 abortions in Australia each year.-There are 800 abortions each week in NSW - approximately 40,000 annually.-There are 250,000 live births each year in Australia, which means that there are 2 aborted babies for every 5 born.-Worldwide, there are about 60-70 million abortions being carried out.-The average age of an aborted baby is 8 weeks.-There were only 40 adoptions in NSW in 1997.-Abortion is a multi-million dollar industry subsidised by the Australian taxpayer.-The top five abortionists in NSW earn $1.5 million per year from Medicare alone.-In Australia we now have a low birth rate (zero population growth), a high abortion rate and an aging population.-98% of abortions are for convenience (these reasons do not include medical purposes, rape or foetal deformities).In South Australia only 1% of abortions are claimed for medical grounds.Many women who have had abortions suffer from a condition known as Post-abortion syndrome No wonder abortionists are so keen to keep abortion going, they sure do reap the "benefits". Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] re: abortion etc
Vegetarianism and abortion, I find that incredibly ridiculous! I just can't get this comment out of my head. It is so ridiculous...so ridiculous that some women don't eat meat because they don't want to harm or killan animal, yet they will willfully, and by choice, harm and kill their unborn baby. I find this incredibly ridiculous. Abby
[ozmidwifery] Fw: Joyous Birth Fw: [birthnews] FW: raffle to support Jeanine Parvati Baker, birthkeeper
-Original Message-From: Sarah J Buckley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, 13 September 2004 8:12 PMTo: Sarah BuckleySubject: raffle to support Jeanine Parvati Baker, birthkeeper Dear friends I am organising the Australian branch of a US raffle to benefit my friendand mentorJeanine Parvati Baker. Jeanine Parvati Bakerhas been abirthkeeper, as she callsherself,for over 30 years.Jeanine Parvati wrote the first-ever book on prenatalyoga in 1972 (Prenatal Yoga and Natural Childbirth,recently revised)and has beenattending women as a lay midwife in her home state of Utah for a generation.A mother of 6 and grandmother, sheis also an accomplished herbalist (as her book Hygeia, A Woman's Herbal shows); astrologer and yogini. She also co-wrote the awesome Conscious Conception, one of my favourite-ever books.Jeanine Parvati coined the phrase Healing birth is healing the earth, and her life has been dedicated to this work foreveryoneon our planet. JP visited Australia in 1996, where she touched many lives and families, including mine. For more about JP and her writing, see her luscious site www.birthkeeper.com. Jeanine Parvati has been seriously unwell this year, and unable to work. A raffle has been organised by her friends, based in the US, with first prizeof a gorgeous king-size quilt,named Parvati's paradise. For a vision of the quilt, and more info about the raffle, see http://sparklinglotusink.com/PPQP.html(NB ticket prices on this site are in US Dollars). As well as the quilt, ancillary prizes include a copy of the book Lotus Birth (withchapter byJP - see http://www.acegraphics.com.au/product/book/bk663.html) and, for Australian supporters, three copies of the2005 Bellies Bots, Boobs and Babes calendars, valued at $15 each.(See http://www.cybercoast.com.au/homebirth/calendar.htm) Also an additional ancillary prize -- JP is donating her newest collection of writing, THE POSSIBLE MOTHER BOOKLET valued at $25AUS-- a compilation of her columns2002-2004 for the U.K. magazine, TheMother, see http://www.birthkeeper.com/Giftshop.html Tickets are as follows, in Australian dollars $5 (minimum purchase) for 4 tickets $10 for 8 tickets $15 for 13 tickets $20 for18 tickets $40 for 38 tickets $50 for 50 tickets Please deposit the money into my account (AUSTRALIA ONLY) , as below, and send me the receipt, along with your name,address, email andphone number. I will check and reply to you, send your details to the US where ticket numbers will be assigned to you, and forward the money toJPB's Australian account. She will draw the raffle personally on November 26th. Commonwealth Bank Account number BSB 063151 10056443 name- Sarah J Buckley Alternatively, you can make a cheque out to Jeanine A Baker and post to me at the address below. FOR THOSE IN THEUS, see the website http://sparklinglotusink.com/PPQP.html to buy tickets. Pleasehelp to spread the word for JP, our living treasure, and email on to your friends and contacts. Thank you for your support Blessings Sarah Sarah J Buckley245 Sugars RdAnstead, Qld 4070Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]"Healing birth is healing the earth"www.freestone.org/hygieia/additionalpostings.htmlwww.womenofspirit.asn.au/sarahjbuckleywww.birthlove.com/pages/sarahwww.mothering.com/11-0-0/html/11-2-0/ecstatic-birth.shtml Sarah J Buckley245 Sugars RdAnstead, Qld 4070Australia[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]"Healing birth is healing the earth"www.freestone.org/hygieia/additionalpostings.htmlwww.womenofspirit.asn.au/sarahjbuckleywww.birthlove.com/pages/sarahwww.mothering.com/11-0-0/html/11-2-0/ecstatic-birth.shtmlEvery woman and every baby and every family have the right to Joyous Birth! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/joyousbirth/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [ozmidwifery] re: abortion etc
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] re: abortion etc Abby, use your passion to work to reduce unwanted pregnancies, rather than judge those who make such a difficult choice. Just wanted to make it clear that I judge the action, not the woman. A very good friend of mine had an abortion, I love her but I hate the decision she made. I mourn for her baby. I also think that calling it as it is, isn't judging, it's just seeing the reality. Thanks for the reminder to work to help reduce unwanted pregnancies. I think it is important that we also remember that those "unwanted pregnancies" are not unwanted babies. There are hundreds of women and men around our country that would like to parent those babies through adoption. Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] re: abortion etc
I don't find it ridiculous that you would say it. Vegetarians are often held to much "higher" expectations than others, but just in case you hadn't noticed they are human too and liable to all such vagaries. Apparently refusing to eat animals or objecting to animal cruelty implies one is on another plane. Only to those who for some reason are offended by such a position. Vegetarians never portray themselves as "perfect". At least not in my experience (always the caveat). Oh the joys of email without emotion! lol! I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying. I was a vego for years and still now am 90%. So...I don't think anything of vegetarians, except, yes, they are human. I don't believe that what you eat makes you any more or any less of a person. My point being that I find it ironic that some vegos are so concerned by harming animallife, yet they will kill their own offspring. To me, this goes against their own philosophies, hence, irony. Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Vegan and pro-choice (was abortion etc)
We are talking about a procedure much more akin to the removal of unwanted/unviable flesh from a woman's body, to assess it from a purely medical point of view. I would love to hear this said to Gianna, the aborted fetus that lived to tell of her story. How can we call, something two people have partaked in creating unwanted/unviable flesh? The problem is, that piece of flesh has a soul, has nerve endings, can feel pain, can have eyes, ears, toes, finger, organs etc etc this is not just flesh. How can we assess anything from a purely medical view for our bodies are not purely medical. We are body, mind and spirit, living as one being. I find the idea of viability an interesting one, because, if a baby and mother were all alone, no support, but the baby was alive and born, would it then be okay for the mother to kill her baby? It certainly wouldn't be viable if she left it alone never to return. I agree that this is not a list to argue on and I don't really fancy arguing by email as so many things are misinterpreted. I will admit that I am a hypocrite in the fact of eating meat (though, as soon as I could I made a decision not to eat meat and started only when I felt my body needed it for a time) though I do hold human life in much higher regard, way above an animals life. I don't ever believe that their is a need for abortion. Most, true unviable pregnancies are naturally aborted by the mothers body. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
