Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Old thread, but never the less. Boris. I read you as you feel responsible when the reseiver don't get your message right. Why? Your english if a lot better than mine, from my point of view it seems better than many native speakers. Haven't it occured to you that the error might be in the other end of the line. Don't forget that you are talking to a bunch of dumb pricks ;-) -- MaritimTim http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/ 2011/2/25 Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com: Bob (W), you should know by now that I am perfectionist. I am noticing that as time passes it becomes worse. Each time I have to admit that I misunderstood the other person or point out that they misunderstood me makes me feel bad. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 24/02/2011 00:37, Bob W wrote: The Romans also had rhymes. Really? Examples? Found near the bottom of a wall in a brothel in Londinium. A centurion from near Clapham Junction Had a gladius that just wouldn't function For the rest of his life He mislead his poor wife With some snot on the shaft of his pilum They were rotten poets. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/27/2011 11:28 AM, mike wilson wrote: On 24/02/2011 00:37, Bob W wrote: The Romans also had rhymes. Really? Examples? Found near the bottom of a wall in a brothel in Londinium. A centurion from near Clapham Junction Had a gladius that just wouldn't function For the rest of his life He mislead his poor wife With some snot on the shaft of his pilum They were rotten poets. Londinium?! Are you sure it wasn't Limerick?! On the other hand it is entirely possible that Romans did not advance all the way north... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of mike wilson The Romans also had rhymes. Really? Examples? Found near the bottom of a wall in a brothel in Londinium. A centurion from near Clapham Junction Had a gladius that just wouldn't function For the rest of his life He mislead his poor wife With some snot on the shaft of his pilum They were rotten poets. Not half! Here's another example: The Romans thought rhyme an affront. Catullus said It's just a stunt. If I were to write Such a pile of old shite You'd call me a lyrical failure -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: mike wilson On 24/02/2011 00:37, Bob W wrote: The Romans also had rhymes. Really? Examples? Found near the bottom of a wall in a brothel in Londinium. A centurion from near Clapham Junction Had a gladius that just wouldn't function For the rest of his life He mislead his poor wife With some snot on the shaft of his pilum They were rotten poets. I thought the Irish invented the Limerick? - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3470 - Release Date: 02/26/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From Wikipedia: A limerick is a kind of a witty, humorous, or nonsense poem,[1] especially one in five-line anapestic or amphibrachic meter with a strict rhyme scheme (aabba), which intends to be witty or humorous, and is sometimes obscene with humorous intent. The form can be found in England as of the early years of the 18th century.[2] It was popularized by Edward Lear in the 19th century, although he did not use the term. On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 3:16 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: I thought the Irish invented the Limerick? -- Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
John's right. Ecke's wrong. On 2/25/2011 2:00 AM, eckinator wrote: 2011/2/24 John Sessomsjsessoms...@nc.rr.com: Sytyi golodnogo ne razumeet. That looks like Russian to me. razumeet? sounds like a place where people get together for a shave-in... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
[...] Bob (W), you should know by now that I am perfectionist. I am noticing that as time passes it becomes worse. Each time I have to admit that I misunderstood the other person or point out that they misunderstood me makes me feel bad. And these times are not passing if you know what I mean. Well, that's a matter for the psychiatrists, not for me! B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 25, 2011, at 12:12 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: Nothing prevents me to resolve not to use emoticons yet another round over and see if it leads me anywhere. Sounds like you're heeding Tim's suggestion. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: steve harley i _am_ using Thunderbird; i had noticed in passing that in Thunderbird /slashes/ make italics, but only when in the HTML view, and Tbird sometimes fails to terminate the italics correctly; but i more often use the plain text view; nonetheless by mentioning this you literally made me rethink my old-school assumption that the _underscore_ was the best way to indicate italics in plain text; each has its plusses -- /slashes/ are a better mnemonic for italics, but underlining (kin to underscores, but can't be done in plain text) was the equivalent to italics during the reign of the typewriter I'm using Thunderbird as well, and when reading in plain text view the /italics/, the _underscores_ and the *bold* all show up. They don't show up in the composition window when you're writing, and I'd never noticed before the quoted text doesn't show them either. Now I'll have to look to see if the quoted /italics/, _underscores_ and *bold* show up in the plain text view when reading. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3466 - Release Date: 02/24/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: steve harley On 2011-02-24 11:28 , steve harley wrote: On 2011-02-24 11:24 , Larry Colen wrote: I wonder if I have better than 1/2 a chance to mess things up with this sentence. Thunderbird handled that well, but try /usr/bin/curl ... ... this sentence may now be unduly italicized (well it wasn't, but i've seen incorrect italicization when lines like the above are reflected through mailing list software which produces HTML email from plain text messages) If it's HTML, Thunderbird converted it back to plain text for me. I can't see whether it's screwed up the HTML or not. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3466 - Release Date: 02/24/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: Ann Sanfedele Showing my age ( not that I haven't done that before), during the reign of the typewriter that I grew up with there were no italics at all. e.g. - http://www.willdavis.org/TilmanUnderwoodPort1932Junior611468.jpg Later - in the early 60's I used an IBM electric typewriter with a ball head, and you could change typeface by changing the little balls the type was on. as I recall, we used underlining to indicate what should be in italics if you were printing something in the newspaper, or a magazine or a book. And yes, you had to back up and type in the underlines under the words. ann I learned on one like this one. http://tinyurl.com/6cmsy2t ... or some similar late 50s vintage standard office typewriter. I learned to type in the mid 60s while I was in high school. The typewriters we used in class had all the key-caps replaced with blanks so you couldn't look at the keyboard to figure out where the letters were. You had to keep your eyes on the text on your copy stand. Nor could you look at the typescript to see if you were typing correctly. If the teacher caught you looking at the page while you were typing she'd slap you up against the back of the head with a ruler. If you were looking at the keys, you'd get your hand smacked. For practice at home, I had an old Remington that once belonged to my grandmother; one even older than your Underwood. http://machinesoflovinggrace.com/large/Remington12.jpg Typing on a computer is so much easier. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3466 - Release Date: 02/24/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
John, I learned typing in a summer high school class of 50 or 60.. The teacher was a former prison camp guard, and she was determined to teach these girls a secretarial skill ! ! ! I only used my art gum eraser (from the mechanical drawing class) ONCE before she confiscated it. How she snuck up behind me is still a mystery. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:09 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Ann Sanfedele Showing my age ( not that I haven't done that before), during the reign of the typewriter that I grew up with there were no italics at all. e.g. - http://www.willdavis.org/TilmanUnderwoodPort1932Junior611468.jpg Later - in the early 60's I used an IBM electric typewriter with a ball head, and you could change typeface by changing the little balls the type was on. as I recall, we used underlining to indicate what should be in italics if you were printing something in the newspaper, or a magazine or a book. And yes, you had to back up and type in the underlines under the words. ann I learned on one like this one. http://tinyurl.com/6cmsy2t ... or some similar late 50s vintage standard office typewriter. I learned to type in the mid 60s while I was in high school. The typewriters we used in class had all the key-caps replaced with blanks so you couldn't look at the keyboard to figure out where the letters were. You had to keep your eyes on the text on your copy stand. Nor could you look at the typescript to see if you were typing correctly. If the teacher caught you looking at the page while you were typing she'd slap you up against the back of the head with a ruler. If you were looking at the keys, you'd get your hand smacked. For practice at home, I had an old Remington that once belonged to my grandmother; one even older than your Underwood. http://machinesoflovinggrace.com/large/Remington12.jpg Typing on a computer is so much easier. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3466 - Release Date: 02/24/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: Bob W From: ... Cotty Sent: 24 February 2011 23:21 To: pentax list Subject: Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc On 23/2/11, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Writing was invented in approximately 4000 BC. Bob should know, he was there. I'm a Time Lord. B YANA - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3466 - Release Date: 02/24/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
I know - replying to myself. From: John Sessoms Now I'll have to look to see if the quoted /italics/, _underscores_ and *bold* show up in the plain text view when reading. They do. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3466 - Release Date: 02/24/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-25 09:14 , John Sessoms wrote: From: steve harley On 2011-02-24 11:28 , steve harley wrote: On 2011-02-24 11:24 , Larry Colen wrote: I wonder if I have better than 1/2 a chance to mess things up with this sentence. Thunderbird handled that well, but try /usr/bin/curl ... ... this sentence may now be unduly italicized (well it wasn't, but i've seen incorrect italicization when lines like the above are reflected through mailing list software which produces HTML email from plain text messages) If it's HTML, Thunderbird converted it back to plain text for me. I can't see whether it's screwed up the HTML or not. no, it's plain text all the way in this case ... my experiment suggests it's when _another_ list i'm on takes my plain text and subverts it to minimally marked-up HTML (it's not the smartest list software); then Thunderbird tries to interpret the // __ markup, but messes up sometimes -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-25 11:50 , John Sessoms wrote: I know - replying to myself. From: John Sessoms Now I'll have to look to see if the quoted /italics/, _underscores_ and *bold* show up in the plain text view when reading. They do. they sometimes don't for me; i'm getting the sense it's when TBird translates an HTML-only email to plain text -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-25 10:09 , John Sessoms wrote: I learned on one like this one. http://tinyurl.com/6cmsy2t while i learned on a Selectric, my favorite typewriter was the one i took when i traveled light after college, and didn't have access to the mainframe computers i was used to: http://mytypewriter.com/olivettilettera22c1950.aspx -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 24, 2011, at 10:25 PM, Christine Aguila wrote: On 24/2/11, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: if one takes all the time and trouble to describe the specifics of one's fart towards me, it obviously may indicate that they are full of some serious resentment toward my person. It is as if they would have hit me in the face, but since I am so many miles of internet plumbing away from them, they let their resentment through to me by that careful description of angle, speed or whatever details of that fart they put in there. Wow! I guess I'll have to follow the fart to understand this thread :-) Cheers, Christine Does your mother smell of elderberries? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
- Original Message - From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc On Feb 24, 2011, at 10:25 PM, Christine Aguila wrote: On 24/2/11, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: if one takes all the time and trouble to describe the specifics of one's fart towards me, it obviously may indicate that they are full of some serious resentment toward my person. It is as if they would have hit me in the face, but since I am so many miles of internet plumbing away from them, they let their resentment through to me by that careful description of angle, speed or whatever details of that fart they put in there. Wow! I guess I'll have to follow the fart to understand this thread :-) Cheers, Christine Does your mother smell of elderberries? No, does yours? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 25, 2011, at 8:14 PM, Christine Aguila wrote: - Original Message - From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc On Feb 24, 2011, at 10:25 PM, Christine Aguila wrote: On 24/2/11, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: if one takes all the time and trouble to describe the specifics of one's fart towards me, it obviously may indicate that they are full of some serious resentment toward my person. It is as if they would have hit me in the face, but since I am so many miles of internet plumbing away from them, they let their resentment through to me by that careful description of angle, speed or whatever details of that fart they put in there. Wow! I guess I'll have to follow the fart to understand this thread :-) Cheers, Christine Does your mother smell of elderberries? No, does yours? Nope, and my father isn't a hamster either. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
William Shakespear was a nerd then. Consider this: http://shakespeare.mit.edu/hamlet/hamlet.1.1.html Just on top of the page I see markup. Clearly, such a writer with such good a command of his native tongue could have produced a written dialog without need to resort to describing who goes where. In fact, it is pretty obvious to me that Bernardo is on location before Francisco join him wherever he might be. Boris stage directions are not markup. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/24/2011 10:03 AM, Bob W wrote: stage directions are not markup. B Here: http://shakespeare.mit.edu/othello/othello.4.2.html, roughly at 1/3rd of the page I find the following text: DESDEMONA O, heaven forgive us! OTHELLO I cry you mercy, then: I took you for that cunning whore of Venice That married with Othello. Raising his voice The last sentence is in italics and as you say is stage directions. I will need to be explained, Bob, how raising his voice is different from from smiling. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Bob, are you just cranky today? ann Boris asked for help and suggestions, indicated as usual that we could be brutal and honest. I gave my honest opinion unbrutally that people don't need all the emoticons to write well, now all of a sudden I'm the Grinch. If people don't want honest opinions they shouldn't ask for them. They should write instead 'please tell me something false that will confirm my own high opinion of myself'. Incidentally, I found an interesting piece of possible etymology last week. My boss asked me what the French is for 'grumpy old man' (can't imagine why she was asking me that!). I had to look it up - it is 'vieux grincheux'. I speculate that 'grincheux' is the origin of the word 'grinch'. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/24/2011 10:03 AM, Bob W wrote: stage directions are not markup. B Here: http://shakespeare.mit.edu/othello/othello.4.2.html, roughly at 1/3rd of the page I find the following text: DESDEMONA O, heaven forgive us! OTHELLO I cry you mercy, then: I took you for that cunning whore of Venice That married with Othello. Raising his voice The last sentence is in italics and as you say is stage directions. I will need to be explained, Bob, how raising his voice is different from from smiling. Boris the playwright is giving instructions to the actor. What you are doing is the same as having the actor read aloud the words 'raising his voice' during the performance. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/24/2011 10:21 AM, Bob W wrote: Boris asked for help and suggestions, indicated as usual that we could be brutal and honest. I gave my honest opinion unbrutally that people don't need all the emoticons to write well, now all of a sudden I'm the Grinch. No, you're not the Grinch. If people don't want honest opinions they shouldn't ask for them. They should write instead 'please tell me something false that will confirm my own high opinion of myself'. Right. I want honest opinions but I am not certain that I am understanding you fully, Bob. I'll try once more - I don't want to write better, or may be more precise to become a better writer. I want to communicate better. One is not fully equal to another. Incidentally, I found an interesting piece of possible etymology last week. My boss asked me what the French is for 'grumpy old man' (can't imagine why she was asking me that!). I had to look it up - it is 'vieux grincheux'. I speculate that 'grincheux' is the origin of the word 'grinch'. Cool! Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/24/2011 10:22 AM, Bob W wrote: the playwright is giving instructions to the actor. What you are doing is the same as having the actor read aloud the words 'raising his voice' during the performance. B I understand your point of view. Thanks for clarification. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Right. I want honest opinions but I am not certain that I am understanding you fully, Bob. I'll try once more - I don't want to write better, or may be more precise to become a better writer. I want to communicate better. One is not fully equal to another. email is a written medium, so if you want to communicate better by email you have to become a better writer. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/24/2011 10:28 AM, Bob W wrote: email is a written medium, so if you want to communicate better by email you have to become a better writer. B The alternative, as I see it, is to try to add to the plain text additional information similarly to stage instructions on the play. I still don't understand why do you dismiss this alternative on the spot. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Right. I want honest opinions but I am not certain that I am understanding you fully, Bob. I'll try once more - I don't want to write better, or may be more precise to become a better writer. I want to communicate better. One is not fully equal to another. email is a written medium, so if you want to communicate better by email you have to become a better writer. B one of the best writers of English in the last hundred years was George Orwell. His essay on writing is considered a classic. Read, mark, learn and inwardly digest: http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/patee.html B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/24/2011 10:36 AM, Bob W wrote: one of the best writers of English in the last hundred years was George Orwell. His essay on writing is considered a classic. Read, mark, learn and inwardly digest: http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/patee.html B Great many thanks. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
There are quite a few guide-to-the-net documents around, worth a web search if you are in doubt on such points. One is from the IETF, the people who designed and built the Interenet, and who set the standars for it. RFC 1885 - Netiquette Guidelines http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html On this question, it has: - Use mixed case. UPPER CASE LOOKS AS IF YOU'RE SHOUTING. - Use symbols for emphasis. That *is* what I meant. Use underscores for underlining. _War and Peace_ is my favorite book. - Use smileys to indicate tone of voice, but use them sparingly. :-) is an example of a smiley (Look sideways). Don't assume that the inclusion of a smiley will make the recipient happy with what you say or wipe out an otherwise insulting comment. One part I really wish more people would read: - Be brief without being overly terse. When replying to a message, include enough original material to be understood but no more. It is extremely bad form to simply reply to a message by including all the previous message: edit out all the irrelevant material. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-24 1:00, Boris Liberman wrote: That's fundamentally correct statement. It is just as fundamentally void of any practical meaning. MARK! -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ/AG) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Boris,
Don't worry, it's a reference you are missing.
The 'fart' business is from Monty Python comedy sketches 20+ years ago.
They were marvelous TV created in the UK and imported/exported around the world.
There is quite a group of followers on this list.
The comedy was witty and irreverent, Brits poking fun at themselves,
and the Roman Catholic Inquisition.
Regards, Bob S.
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote:
Jostein, if one takes all the time and trouble to describe the specifics of
one's fart towards me, it obviously may indicate that they are full of some
serious resentment toward my person. It is as if they would have hit me in
the face, but since I am so many miles of internet plumbing away from them,
they let their resentment through to me by that careful description of
angle, speed or whatever details of that fart they put in there.
On 2/23/2011 3:24 PM, AlunFoto wrote:
Boris, I think some of the success of the symbolic emoticons is the
very fact that they are not razorblade accurate.
Next thing you know, someone will insert
/Gut gass outlet - {degrees off compass North} /
instead of I fart in your general direction.
You have to ask yourself if that is really an improvement.
Jostein
2011/2/23 Boris Libermanbori...@gmail.com:
On 2/23/2011 2:57 PM, David Parsons wrote:
If someone wants to misconstrue what you have typed, emoticons won't
really help.
Absolutely. But I want to eliminate or minimize the situation where the
miscontrue-ment wasn't on purpose but merely because of misunderstanding
or
misuse of language. Latter happening usually on my part.
Boris
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Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Bob W., You were good in math. Surely you know that the only form of precise communications is the mathematical formula. It works because we have precise rules and definitions we have agreed upon in advance. Coming from mathematics to language, I find language a very frail and clumsy way to communicate. Perhaps this is why gesture and facial expressions are such an integral part of successful communications. And why face-to-face communications are so superior to other forms. Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: Right. I want honest opinions but I am not certain that I am understanding you fully, Bob. I'll try once more - I don't want to write better, or may be more precise to become a better writer. I want to communicate better. One is not fully equal to another. email is a written medium, so if you want to communicate better by email you have to become a better writer. B one of the best writers of English in the last hundred years was George Orwell. His essay on writing is considered a classic. Read, mark, learn and inwardly digest: http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/patee.html B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Well said. It's no accident that emoticons/smileys mostly refer to faces or sometimes to body language. There are well documented areas in the brain for recognition of facial expressions. Technical issues can be expressed in precise language, but language exchanges like banter that involve emotional content evade detailed written expression because for most of our existence we have relied on body language to supplement the spoken word. (The written word even loses aspects of speaking such as tone of voice.) This has really been made clear to me lately because I have a good friend on sabbatical in Paris and we talk via Skype. Her computer and my home computer have cameras, whereas the one in my office does not. Since Skype can do Jetson-style video phoning, I can actually experience the differences in the conversations when we can both see the others face or not. The not case has more misunderstanding and requires more clarification. On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote: Bob W., You were good in math. Surely you know that the only form of precise communications is the mathematical formula. It works because we have precise rules and definitions we have agreed upon in advance. Coming from mathematics to language, I find language a very frail and clumsy way to communicate. Perhaps this is why gesture and facial expressions are such an integral part of successful communications. And why face-to-face communications are so superior to other forms. Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: Right. I want honest opinions but I am not certain that I am understanding you fully, Bob. I'll try once more - I don't want to write better, or may be more precise to become a better writer. I want to communicate better. One is not fully equal to another. email is a written medium, so if you want to communicate better by email you have to become a better writer. B one of the best writers of English in the last hundred years was George Orwell. His essay on writing is considered a classic. Read, mark, learn and inwardly digest: http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/patee.html B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 24, 2011, at 1:00 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: The secret of making your meaning clear is to write clearly and simply. That's fundamentally correct statement. It is just as fundamentally void of any practical meaning. If A and B want to communicate, they have to be willing to establish a mutually clear means to do so. If A and B have different mother tongues or belong to different cultures, common language may not be enough. Regardless of the situation, common language is *all there is.* Last summer I spent several weeks doing -- well, I'm not sure what we were doing; not exactly tai chi; maybe some form of kung fu -- with the visiting father/father-in-law of Chinese neighbors. One morning I noticed him out in our parking lot going through an amazing balletic routine using a staff. I went out to ask him what he was doing. He didn't speak a word of English, I didn't speak a word of Chinese. He took me to his daughter's house, where we were able to communicate through her. Through her I indicated an interest in learning from him, and we agreed to meet at 8:00 AM every morning that we were both at home. For the rest of the summer, probably a couple of months, we met. He led. I followed -- as best I could. Not infrequently he would indicate disapproval and then demonstrate the correct way. Occasionally he would indicate approval. About the time he had to return home I got to a place where I felt I was really ready to learn. Each of us learned a few words of the other's language, and I mean a few. But he taught, I learned. We got to know each other. I sensed that we were alike in certain respects -- e.g., both being fitness freaks -- possibly in many. Those few words were trivial. We did not need them. They did not help. But we communicated. We communicated however we could, using whatever was common to us. There is no other way. If it's not common, fah ged about it. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: Boris Liberman Oh, and another one. Sytyi golodnogo ne razumeet. That looks like Russian to me. On 2/24/2011 9:04 AM, Larry Colen wrote: On Feb 23, 2011, at 9:03 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Ubi o ubi sub ubi mihi! semper ubi, sub ubi - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3464 - Release Date: 02/23/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-23 23:17 , Boris Liberman wrote: On 2/23/2011 10:47 PM, steve harley wrote: if i were to pick any emailism that irritates me, it would be top-posting, and after that excessive quoting; but i dance with them -- even sometimes use them myself What is it top-posting? perhaps the most-discussed meta-topic in the history of email ;? there are countless references, and i wish i could find an eloquent early flame war on the topic from the 80s, but this will do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting since long before Thunderbird, i've clung to the notion that _underscore_ indicates italics, but you've made me suddenly question that ... You can always install Thunderbird Portable, set it up and send yourself some e-mail to check what I am saying. i _am_ using Thunderbird; i had noticed in passing that in Thunderbird /slashes/ make italics, but only when in the HTML view, and Tbird sometimes fails to terminate the italics correctly; but i more often use the plain text view; nonetheless by mentioning this you literally made me rethink my old-school assumption that the _underscore_ was the best way to indicate italics in plain text; each has its plusses -- /slashes/ are a better mnemonic for italics, but underlining (kin to underscores, but can't be done in plain text) was the equivalent to italics during the reign of the typewriter -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 24, 2011, at 10:15 AM, steve harley wrote: On 2011-02-23 23:17 , Boris Liberman wrote: On 2/23/2011 10:47 PM, steve harley wrote: if i were to pick any emailism that irritates me, it would be top-posting, and after that excessive quoting; but i dance with them -- even sometimes use them myself What is it top-posting? perhaps the most-discussed meta-topic in the history of email ;? there are countless references, and i wish i could find an eloquent early flame war on the topic from the 80s, but this will do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting It even has the canonical example of why not to top post. since long before Thunderbird, i've clung to the notion that _underscore_ indicates italics, but you've made me suddenly question that ... You can always install Thunderbird Portable, set it up and send yourself some e-mail to check what I am saying. i _am_ using Thunderbird; i had noticed in passing that in Thunderbird /slashes/ make italics, but only when in the HTML view, and Tbird sometimes fails to terminate the italics correctly; I wonder if I have better than 1/2 a chance to mess things up with this sentence. but i more often use the plain text view; nonetheless by mentioning this you literally made me rethink my old-school assumption that the _underscore_ was the best way to indicate italics in plain text; each has its plusses -- /slashes/ are a better mnemonic for italics, but underlining (kin to underscores, but can't be done in plain text) was the equivalent to italics during the reign of the typewriter I never knew that. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-24 11:24 , Larry Colen wrote: I wonder if I have better than 1/2 a chance to mess things up with this sentence. Thunderbird handled that well, but try /usr/bin/curl ... ... this sentence may now be unduly italicized -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 24, 2011, at 10:28 AM, steve harley wrote: On 2011-02-24 11:24 , Larry Colen wrote: I wonder if I have better than 1/2 a chance to mess things up with this sentence. Thunderbird handled that well, but try /usr/bin/curl ... ... this sentence may now be unduly italicized I never did get around to putting a file on my website named +++ath -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-24 11:28 , steve harley wrote: On 2011-02-24 11:24 , Larry Colen wrote: I wonder if I have better than 1/2 a chance to mess things up with this sentence. Thunderbird handled that well, but try /usr/bin/curl ... ... this sentence may now be unduly italicized (well it wasn't, but i've seen incorrect italicization when lines like the above are reflected through mailing list software which produces HTML email from plain text messages) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
steve harley wrote: On 2011-02-23 23:17 , Boris Liberman wrote: On 2/23/2011 10:47 PM, steve harley wrote: if i were to pick any emailism that irritates me, it would be top-posting, and after that excessive quoting; but i dance with them -- even sometimes use them myself What is it top-posting? It's what I do sometimes :-) Steve continues... i _am_ using Thunderbird; i had noticed in passing that in Thunderbird /slashes/ make italics, but only when in the HTML view, and Tbird sometimes fails to terminate the italics correctly; but i more often use the plain text view; nonetheless by mentioning this you literally made me rethink my old-school assumption that the _underscore_ was the best way to indicate italics in plain text; each has its plusses -- /slashes/ are a better mnemonic for italics, but underlining (kin to underscores, but can't be done in plain text) was the equivalent to italics during the reign of the typewriter. Showing my age ( not that I haven't done that before), during the reign of the typewriter that I grew up with there were no italics at all. e.g. - http://www.willdavis.org/TilmanUnderwoodPort1932Junior611468.jpg Later - in the early 60's I used an IBM electric typewriter with a ball head, and you could change typeface by changing the little balls the type was on. as I recall, we used underlining to indicate what should be in italics if you were printing something in the newspaper, or a magazine or a book. And yes, you had to back up and type in the underlines under the words. ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
AAHH..I remember those days. No italics, bold was either all upper case or you backed up and retyped it about 3 more times. And God help you if you made a mistake while making three copies with carbon paper. :-) -p On 2/24/2011 1:05 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: steve harley wrote: On 2011-02-23 23:17 , Boris Liberman wrote: On 2/23/2011 10:47 PM, steve harley wrote: if i were to pick any emailism that irritates me, it would be top-posting, and after that excessive quoting; but i dance with them -- even sometimes use them myself What is it top-posting? It's what I do sometimes :-) Steve continues... i _am_ using Thunderbird; i had noticed in passing that in Thunderbird /slashes/ make italics, but only when in the HTML view, and Tbird sometimes fails to terminate the italics correctly; but i more often use the plain text view; nonetheless by mentioning this you literally made me rethink my old-school assumption that the _underscore_ was the best way to indicate italics in plain text; each has its plusses -- /slashes/ are a better mnemonic for italics, but underlining (kin to underscores, but can't be done in plain text) was the equivalent to italics during the reign of the typewriter. Showing my age ( not that I haven't done that before), during the reign of the typewriter that I grew up with there were no italics at all. e.g. - http://www.willdavis.org/TilmanUnderwoodPort1932Junior611468.jpg Later - in the early 60's I used an IBM electric typewriter with a ball head, and you could change typeface by changing the little balls the type was on. as I recall, we used underlining to indicate what should be in italics if you were printing something in the newspaper, or a magazine or a book. And yes, you had to back up and type in the underlines under the words. ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-24 12:05 , Ann Sanfedele wrote: Later - in the early 60's I used an IBM electric typewriter with a ball head, and you could change typeface by changing the little balls the type was on. as I recall, we used underlining to indicate what should be in italics if you were printing something in the newspaper, or a magazine or a book. And yes, you had to back up and type in the underlines under the words. though i learned to type on an IBM Selectric, my high school had only Courier and Elite balls -- two sizes, no italic -- and typing was taught with little of the nuance _typesetting_ involves; it was later, using Runoff and Scribe on a mainframe computer (early markup tools similar to Unix roff/troff), that it became clearer that underlining of foreign phrases, book titles, etc., was the exact analogue of italics in typeset books, and that if i were to submit a typescript for publication, my underlined material would be set in italics; -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Paul Sorenson wrote: AAHH..I remember those days. No italics, bold was either all upper case or you backed up and retyped it about 3 more times. And God help you if you made a mistake while making three copies with carbon paper. :-) -p Yes, indeed. They were very useful, though, in helping Mis Marple and others solve crimes because each machine had it's little quirks. ann On 2/24/2011 1:05 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: steve harley wrote: On 2011-02-23 23:17 , Boris Liberman wrote: On 2/23/2011 10:47 PM, steve harley wrote: if i were to pick any emailism that irritates me, it would be top-posting, and after that excessive quoting; but i dance with them -- even sometimes use them myself What is it top-posting? It's what I do sometimes :-) Steve continues... i _am_ using Thunderbird; i had noticed in passing that in Thunderbird /slashes/ make italics, but only when in the HTML view, and Tbird sometimes fails to terminate the italics correctly; but i more often use the plain text view; nonetheless by mentioning this you literally made me rethink my old-school assumption that the _underscore_ was the best way to indicate italics in plain text; each has its plusses -- /slashes/ are a better mnemonic for italics, but underlining (kin to underscores, but can't be done in plain text) was the equivalent to italics during the reign of the typewriter. Showing my age ( not that I haven't done that before), during the reign of the typewriter that I grew up with there were no italics at all. e.g. - http://www.willdavis.org/TilmanUnderwoodPort1932Junior611468.jpg Later - in the early 60's I used an IBM electric typewriter with a ball head, and you could change typeface by changing the little balls the type was on. as I recall, we used underlining to indicate what should be in italics if you were printing something in the newspaper, or a magazine or a book. And yes, you had to back up and type in the underlines under the words. ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 23/2/11, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: As Cotty recently teased/mocked me Don't take it personally Boz - it's a Brit-thing ;) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 23/2/11, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: or is this whole idea wrong from the start? This is the interwebthingy - the rules are there there are no rules ;-)))/// -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 23/2/11, AlunFoto, discombobulated, unleashed: I fart in your general direction. You have to ask yourself if that is really an improvement. Only if you're upwind. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 23/2/11, Steven Desjardins, discombobulated, unleashed: I do, however, need a simple one that represents flipping the bird. ;-) ..I.. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 23/2/11, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed: I also applaud your humility in that you're willing to ask about things like this and risk people telling you that you're doing things wrong. Seconded. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 23/2/11, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Writing was invented in approximately 4000 BC. Bob should know, he was there. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 23/2/11, John Francis, discombobulated, unleashed: I'd rather look at Ken Rockwell's images than read too many emoticons. Holy mackerel. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 24/2/11, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: if one takes all the time and trouble to describe the specifics of one's fart towards me, it obviously may indicate that they are full of some serious resentment toward my person. It is as if they would have hit me in the face, but since I am so many miles of internet plumbing away from them, they let their resentment through to me by that careful description of angle, speed or whatever details of that fart they put in there. On so many different levelsMARK. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Cotty Sent: 24 February 2011 23:21 To: pentax list Subject: Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc On 23/2/11, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Writing was invented in approximately 4000 BC. Bob should know, he was there. I'm a Time Lord. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Bob W., You were good in math. whatever gave you that idea? I was hopeless at it at school. What I was good at was languages and writing. I didn't get a mathematical qualification until I was in my late 30s, when I'd overcome the phobia that my teachers had beaten into me at school. Surely you know that the only form of precise communications is the mathematical formula. It works because we have precise rules and definitions we have agreed upon in advance. Coming from mathematics to language, I find language a very frail and clumsy way to communicate. The relative merits of mathematics and natural language aren't relevant here, nor am I suggesting to Boris that his normal writing is clumsy or that he needs to be more precise. On the contrary, it is Boris who is worried about the quality of his writing and inventing obscure ways of trying to explain to us what his writing is already telling us. Perhaps this is why gesture and facial expressions are such an integral part of successful communications. And why face-to-face communications are so superior to other forms. that's as may be, but we're not in a face-to-face situation. We're on a mailing list so writing is all we've got. These 'metamessages' that Boris has been adding to his normal writing are just another form of writing, but rather than helping to get his message across they are hindering it. For some reason known only to Boris he has decided that traditional writing is inadequate and that he can invent a better system. My message to Boris is this: Boris, your writing is fine. You don't need all the encrustations - they just make it worse. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/24/2011 10:28 AM, Bob W wrote: email is a written medium, so if you want to communicate better by email you have to become a better writer. B The alternative, as I see it, is to try to add to the plain text additional information similarly to stage instructions on the play. I still don't understand why do you dismiss this alternative on the spot. Boris because it's counterproductive. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
2011/2/24 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com: Sytyi golodnogo ne razumeet. That looks like Russian to me. razumeet? sounds like a place where people get together for a shave-in... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
It's a living language, and one of the powerful evolutionary forces leaning on it is the prevalence of written Internet-mediated communication. Some of this stuff will catch on, some not. You are part of the process. Go with what works for you until people tell you to stop or it starts feeling foolish. -T On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:01 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Hello there, PDML. As Cotty recently teased/mocked me and as Larry pointed out off-list, I am using things like /grin/, /smile/, /evil wink/ etc. I'd like to take a step back and have a bit of discussion thereof. You see, I find it useful and important to be able to attach some minimal emotional context or extra-textual context to my messages. Smileys (such as :-), ;-), 8-), etc) don't cut it IMO, as they are cryptic and even not always interpreted in the same way by different people. OTOH, if I were to describe my emotional state directly in plain words, that would be easier to read. In order to mark apart the actual text and the extra-textual context, I use slashes. Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. Now, question is - am I being abusive in this or is this whole idea wrong from the start? Surely I can stop using any extra-textual mark up whatsoever, but then I am afraid, the likelihood of being misunderstood or misunderstanding the other person on my own will be greater. Have your say. You can be brutal and honest or you can even do it off the list. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/25/2011 1:53 AM, Bob W wrote: The relative merits of mathematics and natural language aren't relevant here, nor am I suggesting to Boris that his normal writing is clumsy or that he needs to be more precise. On the contrary, it is Boris who is worried about the quality of his writing and inventing obscure ways of trying to explain to us what his writing is already telling us. Thanks, Bob. that's as may be, but we're not in a face-to-face situation. We're on a mailing list so writing is all we've got. These 'metamessages' that Boris has been adding to his normal writing are just another form of writing, but rather than helping to get his message across they are hindering it. For some reason known only to Boris he has decided that traditional writing is inadequate and that he can invent a better system. My message to Boris is this: Boris, your writing is fine. You don't need all the encrustations - they just make it worse. Well, then logically (given that under present circumstances logic is not part of math) if I want to improve, it will have to be purely the language. Bob (W), you should know by now that I am perfectionist. I am noticing that as time passes it becomes worse. Each time I have to admit that I misunderstood the other person or point out that they misunderstood me makes me feel bad. And these times are not passing if you know what I mean. Nothing prevents me to resolve not to use emoticons yet another round over and see if it leads me anywhere. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Oh, now I am torn, sir. On one hand you keep mocking me, which is mildly amusing and fine. On the other hand you just promoted me to the major Pentax deity (his name is Boz) and I am not sure if I deserve such a promotion. Boris On 2/25/2011 1:13 AM, Cotty wrote: On 23/2/11, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: As Cotty recently teased/mocked me Don't take it personally Boz - it's a Brit-thing ;) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/25/2011 1:36 AM, Bob W wrote: I'm a Time Lord. B There can be only one. And you're not the Doctor. Nonetheless, we can start calling you Bob Who. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 24/2/11, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: if one takes all the time and trouble to describe the specifics of one's fart towards me, it obviously may indicate that they are full of some serious resentment toward my person. It is as if they would have hit me in the face, but since I am so many miles of internet plumbing away from them, they let their resentment through to me by that careful description of angle, speed or whatever details of that fart they put in there. Wow! I guess I'll have to follow the fart to understand this thread :-) Cheers, Christine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
If someone wants to misconstrue what you have typed, emoticons won't really help. On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Hello there, PDML. As Cotty recently teased/mocked me and as Larry pointed out off-list, I am using things like /grin/, /smile/, /evil wink/ etc. I'd like to take a step back and have a bit of discussion thereof. You see, I find it useful and important to be able to attach some minimal emotional context or extra-textual context to my messages. Smileys (such as :-), ;-), 8-), etc) don't cut it IMO, as they are cryptic and even not always interpreted in the same way by different people. OTOH, if I were to describe my emotional state directly in plain words, that would be easier to read. In order to mark apart the actual text and the extra-textual context, I use slashes. Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. Now, question is - am I being abusive in this or is this whole idea wrong from the start? Surely I can stop using any extra-textual mark up whatsoever, but then I am afraid, the likelihood of being misunderstood or misunderstanding the other person on my own will be greater. Have your say. You can be brutal and honest or you can even do it off the list. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2/23/2011 2:57 PM, David Parsons wrote: If someone wants to misconstrue what you have typed, emoticons won't really help. Absolutely. But I want to eliminate or minimize the situation where the miscontrue-ment wasn't on purpose but merely because of misunderstanding or misuse of language. Latter happening usually on my part. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-23 4:01, Boris Liberman wrote: Now, question is - am I being abusive in this or is this whole idea wrong from the start? Surely I can stop using any extra-textual mark up whatsoever, but then I am afraid, the likelihood of being misunderstood or misunderstanding the other person on my own will be greater. I'm on your side Boris. I don't use them in every message, but occasionally I use emoticons or pseudo-HTML-tags to inject a bit of context into electronic messages in every venue I frequent, including at work. OTOH, at work, for example, the desire to put one into a message makes me think twice about whether I'm communicating my point appropriately. Techniques that can easily be misconstrued without an emoticon could indicate that I need to change my communication approach for that particular audience. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Boris, I think some of the success of the symbolic emoticons is the
very fact that they are not razorblade accurate.
Next thing you know, someone will insert
/Gut gass outlet - {degrees off compass North} /
instead of I fart in your general direction.
You have to ask yourself if that is really an improvement.
Jostein
2011/2/23 Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com:
On 2/23/2011 2:57 PM, David Parsons wrote:
If someone wants to misconstrue what you have typed, emoticons won't
really help.
Absolutely. But I want to eliminate or minimize the situation where the
miscontrue-ment wasn't on purpose but merely because of misunderstanding or
misuse of language. Latter happening usually on my part.
Boris
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Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
I certainly use them. I have simply found that I make many jokes that
people take seriously. When I put a smiley at the end, I get less of
that. I do, however, need a simple one that represents flipping the
bird. ;-)
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 8:24 AM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
Boris, I think some of the success of the symbolic emoticons is the
very fact that they are not razorblade accurate.
Next thing you know, someone will insert
/Gut gass outlet - {degrees off compass North} /
instead of I fart in your general direction.
You have to ask yourself if that is really an improvement.
Jostein
2011/2/23 Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com:
On 2/23/2011 2:57 PM, David Parsons wrote:
If someone wants to misconstrue what you have typed, emoticons won't
really help.
Absolutely. But I want to eliminate or minimize the situation where the
miscontrue-ment wasn't on purpose but merely because of misunderstanding or
misuse of language. Latter happening usually on my part.
Boris
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Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
I've always appreciated your interpretive clarifiers, Boris. They indicate a concern that you convey clear intent. To me, that speaks well of the writer. :) Jack --- On Wed, 2/23/11, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: From: Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2011, 5:10 AM On 2/23/2011 2:57 PM, David Parsons wrote: If someone wants to misconstrue what you have typed, emoticons won't really help. Absolutely. But I want to eliminate or minimize the situation where the miscontrue-ment wasn't on purpose but merely because of misunderstanding or misuse of language. Latter happening usually on my part. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
how about }-
2011/2/23 Steven Desjardins drd1...@gmail.com:
I certainly use them. I have simply found that I make many jokes that
people take seriously. When I put a smiley at the end, I get less of
that. I do, however, need a simple one that represents flipping the
bird. ;-)
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 8:24 AM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
Boris, I think some of the success of the symbolic emoticons is the
very fact that they are not razorblade accurate.
Next thing you know, someone will insert
/Gut gass outlet - {degrees off compass North} /
instead of I fart in your general direction.
You have to ask yourself if that is really an improvement.
Jostein
2011/2/23 Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com:
On 2/23/2011 2:57 PM, David Parsons wrote:
If someone wants to misconstrue what you have typed, emoticons won't
really help.
Absolutely. But I want to eliminate or minimize the situation where the
miscontrue-ment wasn't on purpose but merely because of misunderstanding or
misuse of language. Latter happening usually on my part.
Boris
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Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Boris, I think your fine as is. We all know your not a malicious or mischievous fellow. You have a good reputation here. Sometimes your clarifications are more than needed, but not bad. Regards, Bob S. On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 3:01 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Hello there, PDML. As Cotty recently teased/mocked me and as Larry pointed out off-list, I am using things like /grin/, /smile/, /evil wink/ etc. I'd like to take a step back and have a bit of discussion thereof. You see, I find it useful and important to be able to attach some minimal emotional context or extra-textual context to my messages. Smileys (such as :-), ;-), 8-), etc) don't cut it IMO, as they are cryptic and even not always interpreted in the same way by different people. OTOH, if I were to describe my emotional state directly in plain words, that would be easier to read. In order to mark apart the actual text and the extra-textual context, I use slashes. Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. Now, question is - am I being abusive in this or is this whole idea wrong from the start? Surely I can stop using any extra-textual mark up whatsoever, but then I am afraid, the likelihood of being misunderstood or misunderstanding the other person on my own will be greater. Have your say. You can be brutal and honest or you can even do it off the list. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Maybe }--- One dash for each joint and lots more symbolism.
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 9:20 AM, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote:
how about }-
2011/2/23 Steven Desjardins drd1...@gmail.com:
I certainly use them. I have simply found that I make many jokes that
people take seriously. When I put a smiley at the end, I get less of
that. I do, however, need a simple one that represents flipping the
bird. ;-)
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 8:24 AM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
Boris, I think some of the success of the symbolic emoticons is the
very fact that they are not razorblade accurate.
Next thing you know, someone will insert
/Gut gass outlet - {degrees off compass North} /
instead of I fart in your general direction.
You have to ask yourself if that is really an improvement.
Jostein
2011/2/23 Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com:
On 2/23/2011 2:57 PM, David Parsons wrote:
If someone wants to misconstrue what you have typed, emoticons won't
really help.
Absolutely. But I want to eliminate or minimize the situation where the
miscontrue-ment wasn't on purpose but merely because of misunderstanding or
misuse of language. Latter happening usually on my part.
Boris
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Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 08:19:51AM -0500, Doug Franklin wrote: On 2011-02-23 4:01, Boris Liberman wrote: Now, question is - am I being abusive in this or is this whole idea wrong from the start? Surely I can stop using any extra-textual mark up whatsoever, but then I am afraid, the likelihood of being misunderstood or misunderstanding the other person on my own will be greater. I'm on your side Boris. I don't use them in every message . . . And there's the significant point. An occasional stylistic markup is one thing. But I find that their presence distracts to the extent that it's hard to take a posting seriously with too many of them scattered around. And the format that Boris uses is a lot harder to ignore than one simple three-character emoticon at the end of the post. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 23, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote: I certainly use them. I have simply found that I make many jokes that people take seriously. When I put a smiley at the end, I get less of that. I do, however, need a simple one that represents flipping the bird. ;-) Bill Robb -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 23, 2011, at 1:01 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: Now, question is - am I being abusive in this or is this whole idea wrong from the start? Surely I can stop using any extra-textual mark up whatsoever, but then I am afraid, the likelihood of being misunderstood or misunderstanding the other person on my own will be greater. You aren't being abusive, there are times when they are slightly annoying or distracting. There are times, when being non-standard, they seem to obfuscate more than they clarify. There are generally two schools of thought on the subject. The first one is that people communicated by written word in the English language for many centuries without the use of emoticons. They should not be needed. On the other hand, we have people from a wide variety of cultures, with a wide range of ability in reading and writing of English. A great writer may not need emoticons to let the reader know when they are being sarcastic, but if James Thurber is on PDML, he's in full on lurk mode. Fortunately, most of the people on PDML, when they encounter something that seems like it might be offensive, assume an error in communication and interpret things as if they weren't meant to be offensive. There are a few people that seem to enjoy taking offense at what others say, and my feeling is, fuckem. There are a few fairly standard smilies such as :-) (for a smile) ;-) (for a flirty wink) but even those are not universal. Conservative use of them can convey an emotional subtext in a manner that most people will understand. Over use of them is rather annoying. Your use of /wink/ *guffaw* _stern look_ or whatever is kind of like using lojban, it might convey exactly what you mean, unfortunately nobody else understands it. Have your say. You can be brutal and honest or you can even do it off the list. You do a damn sight better in English than I do in either Russian or Hebrew, so I'm certainly wiling to cut you a bit of slack. My off list question was prompted because I could tell that you were trying to clarify rather than confuse, but that, at least for me, it wasn't working. I also applaud your humility in that you're willing to ask about things like this and risk people telling you that you're doing things wrong. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Keep it simple: I'm happy == :-) I'm grinning == ;-) My emotional state is hard to read but not happy == :-\ I'm sad == :-( I'm goofing around or being a prat == ]'-) Nyaa nyaah! == :-b omigod == =8^0 Piss off == Bill Robb On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:01 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Hello there, PDML. As Cotty recently teased/mocked me and as Larry pointed out off-list, I am using things like /grin/, /smile/, /evil wink/ etc. I'd like to take a step back and have a bit of discussion thereof. You see, I find it useful and important to be able to attach some minimal emotional context or extra-textual context to my messages. Smileys (such as :-), ;-), 8-), etc) don't cut it IMO, as they are cryptic and even not always interpreted in the same way by different people. OTOH, if I were to describe my emotional state directly in plain words, that would be easier to read. In order to mark apart the actual text and the extra-textual context, I use slashes. Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. Now, question is - am I being abusive in this or is this whole idea wrong from the start? Surely I can stop using any extra-textual mark up whatsoever, but then I am afraid, the likelihood of being misunderstood or misunderstanding the other person on my own will be greater. Have your say. You can be brutal and honest or you can even do it off the list. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
I sense a growing consensus. On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi gdigio...@gmail.com wrote: Keep it simple: I'm happy == :-) I'm grinning == ;-) My emotional state is hard to read but not happy == :-\ I'm sad == :-( I'm goofing around or being a prat == ]'-) Nyaa nyaah! == :-b omigod == =8^0 Piss off == Bill Robb On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:01 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Hello there, PDML. As Cotty recently teased/mocked me and as Larry pointed out off-list, I am using things like /grin/, /smile/, /evil wink/ etc. I'd like to take a step back and have a bit of discussion thereof. You see, I find it useful and important to be able to attach some minimal emotional context or extra-textual context to my messages. Smileys (such as :-), ;-), 8-), etc) don't cut it IMO, as they are cryptic and even not always interpreted in the same way by different people. OTOH, if I were to describe my emotional state directly in plain words, that would be easier to read. In order to mark apart the actual text and the extra-textual context, I use slashes. Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. Now, question is - am I being abusive in this or is this whole idea wrong from the start? Surely I can stop using any extra-textual mark up whatsoever, but then I am afraid, the likelihood of being misunderstood or misunderstanding the other person on my own will be greater. Have your say. You can be brutal and honest or you can even do it off the list. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: Boris Liberman Now, question is - am I being abusive in this or is this whole idea wrong from the start? Surely I can stop using any extra-textual mark up whatsoever, but then I am afraid, the likelihood of being misunderstood or misunderstanding the other person on my own will be greater. Have your say. You can be brutal and honest or you can even do it off the list. Boris It doesn't matter what you do, Cotty is going to find some reason to tease. That's Cotty. As far as I'm concerned, it's whatever floats your boat ... or as it was said in the vernacular of my youth, You do your thing, and I'll do mine. How can it be abusive or wrong to express your feelings honestly? If extra-textual mark-up allows you to express yourself more satisfactorily than emoticons do, then I see no reason for complaint or criticism. MY $0.02 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: Steven Desjardins I certainly use them. I have simply found that I make many jokes that people take seriously. When I put a smiley at the end, I get less of that. I do, however, need a simple one that represents flipping the bird. ;-) ..|. maybe? - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Writing was invented in approximately 4000 BC. Since then people have been able to write to each other quite successfully without needing emoticons, smilies, 'mark-up' and other non-standard orthography. I really don't know why people have suddenly decided to resort to privately-defined systems of non-communication. The secret of making your meaning clear is to write clearly and simply. If you're not writing in your first language then you have to take a bit of extra care and stick to the standard variety register of the language, avoiding archaic, precious or excessively formal or informal language. If you are using your first language then you have to remember that many of your readers are not, so take a bit of extra care and stick to the standard variety register of the language, avoiding archaic, precious or excessively formal or informal language. Bob -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman Sent: 23 February 2011 09:02 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc Hello there, PDML. As Cotty recently teased/mocked me and as Larry pointed out off-list, I am using things like /grin/, /smile/, /evil wink/ etc. I'd like to take a step back and have a bit of discussion thereof. You see, I find it useful and important to be able to attach some minimal emotional context or extra-textual context to my messages. Smileys (such as :-), ;-), 8-), etc) don't cut it IMO, as they are cryptic and even not always interpreted in the same way by different people. OTOH, if I were to describe my emotional state directly in plain words, that would be easier to read. In order to mark apart the actual text and the extra-textual context, I use slashes. Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. Now, question is - am I being abusive in this or is this whole idea wrong from the start? Surely I can stop using any extra-textual mark up whatsoever, but then I am afraid, the likelihood of being misunderstood or misunderstanding the other person on my own will be greater. Have your say. You can be brutal and honest or you can even do it off the list. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 23, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote: I certainly use them. I have simply found that I make many jokes that people take seriously. When I put a smiley at the end, I get less of that. I do, however, need a simple one that represents flipping the bird. ;-) Bill Robb :o) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 23, 2011, at 12:49 PM, Larry Colen wrote: Fortunately, most of the people on PDML, when they encounter something that seems like it might be offensive, assume an error in communication and interpret things as if they weren't meant to be offensive. There are a few people that seem to enjoy taking offense at what others say, and my feeling is, fuckem. I was going to take offense at your use of such language and tell you .|.. But then I decided it must be an error in your communication. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-23 12:31 , Bob W wrote: Writing was invented in approximately 4000 BC. Since then people have been able to write to each other quite successfully without needing emoticons, smilies, 'mark-up' and other non-standard orthography. i say capital letters are markup, along with all punctuation, spacing, and any use of puns or rhyme ;? I really don't know why people have suddenly decided to resort to privately-defined systems of non-communication. as opposed to publicly-defined systems of non-communication? (which is what a lot of business language seems to be) If you're not writing in your first language then you have to take a bit of extra care and stick to the standard variety register of the language, avoiding archaic, precious or excessively formal or informal language. i understand this sentiment, and i agree it's good to take such care in, say, business, but in the broader sphere i don't agree with have to ... stick to -- i like the interesting constructions that come from non-native speakers -- they refresh me and give me pause to reflect on my language; for example i listen to/watch Democracy Now! and i admire the fact that they let people say complicated things in heavily accented English without providing any help If you are using your first language then you have to remember that many of your readers are not, so take a bit of extra care and stick to the standard variety register of the language, avoiding archaic, precious or excessively formal or informal language. now that's markup! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On 2011-02-23 02:01 , Boris Liberman wrote: You see, I find it useful and important to be able to attach some minimal emotional context or extra-textual context to my messages. Smileys (such as :-), ;-), 8-), etc) don't cut it IMO, as they are cryptic and even not always interpreted in the same way by different people. you have a unique style, Boris; it's slightly self-conscious but very clear, and it doesn't irritate me at all; i don't think anyone can completely control context and interpretation, but they can certainly try ;? if i were to pick any emailism that irritates me, it would be top-posting, and after that excessive quoting; but i dance with them -- even sometimes use them myself Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. since long before Thunderbird, i've clung to the notion that _underscore_ indicates italics, but you've made me suddenly question that ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Writing was invented in approximately 4000 BC. Since then people have been able to write to each other quite successfully without needing emoticons, smilies, 'mark-up' and other non-standard orthography. i say capital letters are markup, along with all punctuation, spacing, and any use of puns or rhyme ;? indeed. The Romans did well enough with none of those. Perhaps with the exception of puns. I really don't know why people have suddenly decided to resort to privately-defined systems of non-communication. as opposed to publicly-defined systems of non-communication? (which is what a lot of business language seems to be) I worked from home yesterday, reading a book about that well-known oxymoron 'business intelligence'. Everything in it was useful and quite interesting (given the context), but they didn't need 120 pages to say it - they could have said it in no more than 30. They should have leveraged their dictionaries a bit more, and leveraged the word 'use' instead of 'leverage'. If you're not writing in your first language then you have to take a bit of extra care and stick to the standard variety register of the language, avoiding archaic, precious or excessively formal or informal language. i understand this sentiment, and i agree it's good to take such care in, say, business, but in the broader sphere i don't agree with have to ... stick to -- i like the interesting constructions that come from non-native speakers -- they refresh me and give me pause to reflect on my language; for example i listen to/watch Democracy Now! and i admire the fact that they let people say complicated things in heavily accented English without providing any help Yes. I didn't really mean have to. Everyone can do whateverage they want and leverage in any damned language they want. It all depends on how successfully they want to communicate. If you are using your first language then you have to remember that many of your readers are not, so take a bit of extra care and stick to the standard variety register of the language, avoiding archaic, precious or excessively formal or informal language. now that's markup! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. since long before Thunderbird, i've clung to the notion that _underscore_ indicates italics, but you've made me suddenly question that ... it doesn't really matter. They're all nerdisms, and using them in a photography mailing list is bad manners. Nerds very often assume that everyone else in the world is equally nerdy and knows all their nerdisms. This is one of the reasons why so many user interfaces are so irredeemably crap. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 23, 2011, at 14:52, Bob W wrote: Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. since long before Thunderbird, i've clung to the notion that _underscore_ indicates italics, but you've made me suddenly question that ... it doesn't really matter. They're all nerdisms, and using them in a photography mailing list is bad manners. Respectfully disagree, and wonder if there really is an 'elements of style' guideline specifically for a photography mailing list?? -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
I'm working on it, Charles. It will $16.99 USD from Amazon. I strongly recommend it. ;-) On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com wrote: On Feb 23, 2011, at 14:52, Bob W wrote: Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. since long before Thunderbird, i've clung to the notion that _underscore_ indicates italics, but you've made me suddenly question that ... it doesn't really matter. They're all nerdisms, and using them in a photography mailing list is bad manners. Respectfully disagree, and wonder if there really is an 'elements of style' guideline specifically for a photography mailing list?? -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 23, 2011, at 11:31 AM, Bob W wrote: The secret of making your meaning clear is to write clearly and simply. That's like saying the secret of clear photos is proper exposure and sharp focus. If it were easy, everybody would be a great photographer. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Feb 23, 2011, at 12:47 PM, steve harley wrote: On 2011-02-23 02:01 , Boris Liberman wrote: Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. since long before Thunderbird, i've clung to the notion that _underscore_ indicates italics, but you've made me suddenly question that ... I've always treated *stars* _underscores_ and CAPS each as a means of emphasis, though often what caps emphasize is THE COMPLETE CLUELESSNESS OF SOMEONE WHO LEAVES THE CAPSLOCK ON. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
The secret of making your meaning clear is to write clearly and simply. That's like saying the secret of clear photos is proper exposure and sharp focus. If it were easy, everybody would be a great photographer. well, as somebody else pointed out, if Boris thinks his English is unclear, inventing his own hieroglyphics isn't going to clarify it. If he's worried about the clarity of his English - and he shouldn't be - he should concentrate his efforts on improving it, not on inventing his own private language. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. since long before Thunderbird, i've clung to the notion that _underscore_ indicates italics, but you've made me suddenly question that ... it doesn't really matter. They're all nerdisms, and using them in a photography mailing list is bad manners. Respectfully disagree, and wonder if there really is an 'elements of style' guideline specifically for a photography mailing list?? Who knows? But that's not the point. The point is that using nerdisms in a community which is largely non-nerd is the equivalent of all those native English speakers who refuse to talk anything but English when they're abroad. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 01:45:50PM -0800, Larry Colen wrote: On Feb 23, 2011, at 11:31 AM, Bob W wrote: The secret of making your meaning clear is to write clearly and simply. That's like saying the secret of clear photos is proper exposure and sharp focus. If it were easy, everybody would be a great photographer. Well, maybe. But you don't want everybody thinking that over-processing their images to death is the way to go, either. I'd rather look at Ken Rockwell's images than read too many emoticons. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: Bob W Why slashes? Because in Thunderbird (and I thought it was standard, whereas I am probably wrong) the following applies: _underline_, *bold*, /italics/. Since _underline_ is for links and *bold* is for emphasis thus what remains is /italics/ for emotions. since long before Thunderbird, i've clung to the notion that _underscore_ indicates italics, but you've made me suddenly question that ... it doesn't really matter. They're all nerdisms, and using them in a photography mailing list is bad manners. Respectfully disagree, and wonder if there really is an 'elements of style' guideline specifically for a photography mailing list?? Who knows? But that's not the point. The point is that using nerdisms in a community which is largely non-nerd is the equivalent of all those native English speakers who refuse to talk anything but English when they're abroad. I would, however, suggest you examine your underlying assumption that PDML is largely non-nerd. Quotient appears fairly high to me. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
-Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sessoms [...] i say capital letters are markup, along with all punctuation, spacing, and any use of puns or rhyme ;? indeed. The Romans did well enough with none of those. Perhaps with the exception of puns. The Romans also had rhymes. Really? Examples? B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: Bob W Writing was invented in approximately 4000 BC. Since then people have been able to write to each other quite successfully without needing emoticons, smilies, 'mark-up' and other non-standard orthography. i say capital letters are markup, along with all punctuation, spacing, and any use of puns or rhyme ;? indeed. The Romans did well enough with none of those. Perhaps with the exception of puns. The Romans also had rhymes. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Top-posting? I can do that ;-) I see your point, but. The default style in Gmail seem to be top posting. I just follow the stream, because I'm lazy. -- MaritimTim http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/ 2011/2/23 steve harley p...@paper-ape.com: if i were to pick any emailism that irritates me, it would be top-posting, and after that excessive quoting; but i dance with them -- even sometimes use them myself -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
Stan Halpin wrote: On Feb 23, 2011, at 12:49 PM, Larry Colen wrote: Fortunately, most of the people on PDML, when they encounter something that seems like it might be offensive, assume an error in communication and interpret things as if they weren't meant to be offensive. There are a few people that seem to enjoy taking offense at what others say, and my feeling is, fuckem. I was going to take offense at your use of such language and tell you .|.. But then I decided it must be an error in your communication. stan Do I have to say Mark! ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Off Topic: emoticons, smileys, etc
From: Bob W From: John Sessoms [...] i say capital letters are markup, along with all punctuation, spacing, and any use of puns or rhyme ;? indeed. The Romans did well enough with none of those. Perhaps with the exception of puns. The Romans also had rhymes. Really? Examples? End rhyme is not a feature of classical Latin, but alliteration and homeoteleuton are. Since damn near every word in the language ends in *ae*, *am*, *em*, *um* or *us*, they'd be hard put NOT to rhyme. O Fortunatam natam me consule Romam. O happy Rome, born when I was consul - Cicero am, am, am I admit I had to look that up. My high school Latin is lost in the mists of time almost half a century ago. Still ... Latinus lingua mortuus ut mortuus ut existo iuguolo totus Romanorum quod est caedes mihi aliquantulus frenum Caesar aliquantulus Cicero succurro expleo locus qua rabidus populus vado LatinUS - mortuUS - totUS - aliquantulUS - locUS - rabidUS - populUS existO - CicerO - vadO 8-D - emoticonUS! - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
