Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
TTL flash requires a second exposure sensor in the mirror box. P-TTL does not. Pentax drops an "unreliable" feature and saves money. (P-TTL is more or less a software enhancement as opposed to a physical feature. In keeping with current trends most extra "features" seem to implemented in software if that can be done without a hardware change). If it becomes possible to read exposure from the actual imaging sensor in real time I expect that TTL may make a comeback, since it would be a software change. Pancho Hasselbach wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > TTL works on my *istDS to my satisfaction, by now, with those old > flashes I have. > I have a flash meter and know how to use it, but I think this would not > be wedding proof, e.g. Setting a flash to auto is OK too, the K100D I > owned for a short ime even transmitted the f-stop to my Metz 40MZ-2. > But then, with auto flash and preset f-stop, my KX does the job as well > - or my RB67, with 1/400 sync time ;-) > > So why drop TTL for those who own old flashes, if it is apparently > possible to implement both, at a not so high expense, I guess. > > I always believe there is a conspiracy, if things are not going the way > I want... > > Pancho > > Bruce Dayton schrieb: > >> Hello Pancho, >> >> My understanding of the move by all camera manufacturers away from TTL >> is that the reflectivity of the sensor/filter in front of it, made it >> problematic at best to read from that surface. Every manufacturer has >> found it necessary to pre-flash and read to set proper exposure rather >> than meter on the surface during exposure. If my *istD was any >> indicator, the Old TTL system was not too good. I don't think there >> was any major conspiracy to force us to buy new flashes. >> >> Nikon has been even worse going from TTL to D-TTL to I-TTL. So >> incomparability is even a bigger problem - especially if you had a >> flash for the middle version. >> >> > > -- Entropy Seminar: The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekend lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
My understanding, based on what was said by those who know the details for real, is that there were technical difficulties in implementing TTL flash metering with the image stabilization system and obtaining consistent metering. TTL flash metering with inconsistent results would be worse than no TTL flash metering at all. G On Mar 6, 2007, at 2:08 PM, Pancho Hasselbach wrote: > So why drop TTL for those who own old flashes, if it is apparently > possible to implement both, at a not so high expense, I guess. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Hi Bruce, TTL works on my *istDS to my satisfaction, by now, with those old flashes I have. I have a flash meter and know how to use it, but I think this would not be wedding proof, e.g. Setting a flash to auto is OK too, the K100D I owned for a short ime even transmitted the f-stop to my Metz 40MZ-2. But then, with auto flash and preset f-stop, my KX does the job as well - or my RB67, with 1/400 sync time ;-) So why drop TTL for those who own old flashes, if it is apparently possible to implement both, at a not so high expense, I guess. I always believe there is a conspiracy, if things are not going the way I want... Pancho Bruce Dayton schrieb: > Hello Pancho, > > My understanding of the move by all camera manufacturers away from TTL > is that the reflectivity of the sensor/filter in front of it, made it > problematic at best to read from that surface. Every manufacturer has > found it necessary to pre-flash and read to set proper exposure rather > than meter on the surface during exposure. If my *istD was any > indicator, the Old TTL system was not too good. I don't think there > was any major conspiracy to force us to buy new flashes. > > Nikon has been even worse going from TTL to D-TTL to I-TTL. So > incomparability is even a bigger problem - especially if you had a > flash for the middle version. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
mike wilson wrote: >> From: Bruce Dayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Date: 2007/03/05 Mon PM 11:16:19 GMT >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response >> >> Hello Pancho, >> >> My understanding of the move by all camera manufacturers away from TTL >> is that the reflectivity of the sensor/filter in front of it, made it >> problematic at best to read from that surface. Every manufacturer has >> found it necessary to pre-flash and read to set proper exposure rather >> than meter on the surface during exposure. If my *istD was any >> indicator, the Old TTL system was not too good. I don't think there >> was any major conspiracy to force us to buy new flashes. > > You aren't suggesting that digital does something as mundane and easy as TTL > flash in a worse way than film, are you? Naaah; not possible. The > manufacturers wouldn't stuff all those new, expensive flash guns under our > kilts, would they? > Sensor reflectivity was a major issue with plain TTL and digital. Only Fuji and Pentax ever got it working with anything approaching reliability, and both dumped plain TTL quickly (Note that Fuji did so with no economic benefit, since they only sell bodies, Nikon sells the lenses and flashes for Fuji bodies). Canon and Minolta simply used their pre-existing preflash metering systems while abandoning plain TTL, Nikon screwed around with D-TTL until they got it right with i-TTL and Olympus got lucky since they were introducing a whole new system anyways and had no reason to support OM TTL flashes. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
> > From: Bruce Dayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2007/03/05 Mon PM 11:16:19 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > Hello Pancho, > > My understanding of the move by all camera manufacturers away from TTL > is that the reflectivity of the sensor/filter in front of it, made it > problematic at best to read from that surface. Every manufacturer has > found it necessary to pre-flash and read to set proper exposure rather > than meter on the surface during exposure. If my *istD was any > indicator, the Old TTL system was not too good. I don't think there > was any major conspiracy to force us to buy new flashes. You aren't suggesting that digital does something as mundane and easy as TTL flash in a worse way than film, are you? Naaah; not possible. The manufacturers wouldn't stuff all those new, expensive flash guns under our kilts, would they? - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Hello Pancho, My understanding of the move by all camera manufacturers away from TTL is that the reflectivity of the sensor/filter in front of it, made it problematic at best to read from that surface. Every manufacturer has found it necessary to pre-flash and read to set proper exposure rather than meter on the surface during exposure. If my *istD was any indicator, the Old TTL system was not too good. I don't think there was any major conspiracy to force us to buy new flashes. Nikon has been even worse going from TTL to D-TTL to I-TTL. So incomparability is even a bigger problem - especially if you had a flash for the middle version. -- Bruce Monday, March 5, 2007, 2:33:46 PM, you wrote: PH> Cory, PH> this is one point which really sucks in terms of backward compatibility. PH> TTL flash ability was one of the reasons to replace the K100D with an PH> *istDS, in spite of the silly name (other main reason was the finder). PH> I use it with my Metz 40MZ-2 (SCA 3000), Metz 32CT2 (SCA 300), and will PH> use it with my AF280T, Metz 45CL-4 and even my Braun Ultrablitz 38M (SCA PH> 300, too). I even can dial in flash correction, and it works fine, PH> giving very nice fill-flash effects if desired. What even sucks more PH> about P-TTL is that it won't work with pre-A lenses, opposite to TTL. PH> With an external flash, at least, I can use my K lenses and get correct PH> TTL exposure, even with correction factors. This won't work with the PH> crappy bulitin P-TTL flash. PH> The only reason I see why Pentax dropped TTL flash compatibility is to PH> sell new flashes, at the expense of really annoying long term Pentax PH> customers. But I do have a bunch of flashes and feel no need for another PH> one. PH> This sucks, and I see no reason to buy any newer body which lacks such PH> easy-to-implement features. PH> My MZ-S (well, since last week both of them) can handle both TTL and PH> P-TTL flash. Apart from that, it has a feature with was strongly hyped PH> in a K10D review I read lately: MTF program curves. Yes, someone raves PH> about a really old Pentax feature, "rediscovered". PH> Oh, and my MZ-Sn even can do program shift (which could have been easily PH> implemented in *istDS, methinks, maybe as a feature to be enabled by PH> advanced users in the personal settings), and have that aperture thingy, PH> hehehe... PH> Just my 2C, PH> Pancho PH> cbwaters schrieb: >> After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking the >> K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to >> mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. >> I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn >> thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. >> The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old >> flashes. >> >> Here's their response: >> "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The >> recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. >> The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, >> however it will only work in manual mode." >> >> Now you know. >> >> Cory -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Thanks for the additional information. -- Bruce Monday, March 5, 2007, 3:04:18 PM, you wrote: GD> On Mar 5, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Bruce Dayton wrote: >> ... I'd like to hear some more detail about what you mean about the >> way >> you used to work. Are you just referring to working distances or >> certain scenes or poses or what? GD> I always had either the Rolleiflex or the Nikon with 28mm and 85mm GD> lenses. To get natural perspectives for flash shots, I worked at GD> about three-four set distances for groups, tables shots, and couples- GD> triples-quadruples. The old Mecablitz potato masher had good power so GD> I put a nice big diffuser on it ... a homemade version of the GD> Lightsphere, in hindsight. Figuring correct exposure was simply GD> setting 1/30-1/60 second and then the correct aperture for the GD> distance and power setting. GD> I didn't use flash that often, only when the guy who booked the GD> weddings asked me to do some of the standard pose shots. Normally he GD> did those and I did available light candids in B&W. It was a good GD> business, did it for about two years. GD> Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
On Mar 5, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Bruce Dayton wrote: > ... I'd like to hear some more detail about what you mean about the > way > you used to work. Are you just referring to working distances or > certain scenes or poses or what? I always had either the Rolleiflex or the Nikon with 28mm and 85mm lenses. To get natural perspectives for flash shots, I worked at about three-four set distances for groups, tables shots, and couples- triples-quadruples. The old Mecablitz potato masher had good power so I put a nice big diffuser on it ... a homemade version of the Lightsphere, in hindsight. Figuring correct exposure was simply setting 1/30-1/60 second and then the correct aperture for the distance and power setting. I didn't use flash that often, only when the guy who booked the weddings asked me to do some of the standard pose shots. Normally he did those and I did available light candids in B&W. It was a good business, did it for about two years. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Cory, this is one point which really sucks in terms of backward compatibility. TTL flash ability was one of the reasons to replace the K100D with an *istDS, in spite of the silly name (other main reason was the finder). I use it with my Metz 40MZ-2 (SCA 3000), Metz 32CT2 (SCA 300), and will use it with my AF280T, Metz 45CL-4 and even my Braun Ultrablitz 38M (SCA 300, too). I even can dial in flash correction, and it works fine, giving very nice fill-flash effects if desired. What even sucks more about P-TTL is that it won't work with pre-A lenses, opposite to TTL. With an external flash, at least, I can use my K lenses and get correct TTL exposure, even with correction factors. This won't work with the crappy bulitin P-TTL flash. The only reason I see why Pentax dropped TTL flash compatibility is to sell new flashes, at the expense of really annoying long term Pentax customers. But I do have a bunch of flashes and feel no need for another one. This sucks, and I see no reason to buy any newer body which lacks such easy-to-implement features. My MZ-S (well, since last week both of them) can handle both TTL and P-TTL flash. Apart from that, it has a feature with was strongly hyped in a K10D review I read lately: MTF program curves. Yes, someone raves about a really old Pentax feature, "rediscovered". Oh, and my MZ-Sn even can do program shift (which could have been easily implemented in *istDS, methinks, maybe as a feature to be enabled by advanced users in the personal settings), and have that aperture thingy, hehehe... Just my 2C, Pancho cbwaters schrieb: > After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking the > K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to > mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn > thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. > The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > flashes. > > Here's their response: > "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > however it will only work in manual mode." > > Now you know. > > Cory -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
I'm not saying it does cause problems - haven't really tested it much. I currently only have the 360FGZ for P-TTL and it is not powerful enough to put much of a modifier on it. I'd like to hear some more detail about what you mean about the way you used to work. Are you just referring to working distances or certain scenes or poses or what? -- Bruce Monday, March 5, 2007, 1:46:29 PM, you wrote: GD> Hmm. I'd have to see some evidence of problems, but I imagine that if GD> you're really diffusing the light a lot this could conceivably happen. GD> I don't see how the wedding photography could work with a preview ... GD> given that most of your shooting happens in very constrained, set GD> distances and poses, all you need to know is the right lens opening GD> for the given scenes. I used to do weddings way back in the mists of GD> time with a Nikon F and a Rolleiflex TLR, didn't even have an auto- GD> flash at that time, just a good-old-potato masher, and found that in GD> a reception situation I just had to know three-four setups and click GD> the aperture to the correct one for the situation. GD> With a digital preview, I'd calibrate my head to the setups more GD> accurately and then just dial in the aperture as needed. GD> Godfrey GD> On Mar 5, 2007, at 10:22 AM, Bruce Dayton wrote: >> Light modifiers are bounce cards, diffusers, umbrellas, light spheres, >> etc. Where I could imagine the problem is that the pre-flash systems >> only send out a very small pop to determine exposure. The situation >> becomes somewhat like when you try to meter past the capability of the >> meter - like old stop down - so the pre-flash is small and the light >> modifier cuts 3 stops of light and the little pop didn't put out 3 >> stops to begin with. Now the reading would be incorrect and the main >> flash pop would be too strong. Not saying it would always happen, but >> I could imagine problems with some kinds of modifiers - especially the >> stronger diffusers. >> >> In some situations, taking a shot and then looking at the histogram >> would work well. In wedding photography, that would mostly not work - >> you can't afford a test shot most of the time. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Hmm. I'd have to see some evidence of problems, but I imagine that if you're really diffusing the light a lot this could conceivably happen. I don't see how the wedding photography could work with a preview ... given that most of your shooting happens in very constrained, set distances and poses, all you need to know is the right lens opening for the given scenes. I used to do weddings way back in the mists of time with a Nikon F and a Rolleiflex TLR, didn't even have an auto- flash at that time, just a good-old-potato masher, and found that in a reception situation I just had to know three-four setups and click the aperture to the correct one for the situation. With a digital preview, I'd calibrate my head to the setups more accurately and then just dial in the aperture as needed. Godfrey On Mar 5, 2007, at 10:22 AM, Bruce Dayton wrote: > Light modifiers are bounce cards, diffusers, umbrellas, light spheres, > etc. Where I could imagine the problem is that the pre-flash systems > only send out a very small pop to determine exposure. The situation > becomes somewhat like when you try to meter past the capability of the > meter - like old stop down - so the pre-flash is small and the light > modifier cuts 3 stops of light and the little pop didn't put out 3 > stops to begin with. Now the reading would be incorrect and the main > flash pop would be too strong. Not saying it would always happen, but > I could imagine problems with some kinds of modifiers - especially the > stronger diffusers. > > In some situations, taking a shot and then looking at the histogram > would work well. In wedding photography, that would mostly not work - > you can't afford a test shot most of the time. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons why Nikon started making its own lighting modifiers(Diffuser, filters), especially the diffuser for the SB-800. That way they could test the system with the modifiers in place. If I'm doing anything more complicated than bounce umbrellas, I shoot in manual. Way more predictable. Bruce Dayton wrote: > Light modifiers are bounce cards, diffusers, umbrellas, light spheres, > etc. Where I could imagine the problem is that the pre-flash systems > only send out a very small pop to determine exposure. The situation > becomes somewhat like when you try to meter past the capability of the > meter - like old stop down - so the pre-flash is small and the light > modifier cuts 3 stops of light and the little pop didn't put out 3 > stops to begin with. Now the reading would be incorrect and the main > flash pop would be too strong. Not saying it would always happen, but > I could imagine problems with some kinds of modifiers - especially the > stronger diffusers. > > In some situations, taking a shot and then looking at the histogram > would work well. In wedding photography, that would mostly not work - > you can't afford a test shot most of the time. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Light modifiers are bounce cards, diffusers, umbrellas, light spheres, etc. Where I could imagine the problem is that the pre-flash systems only send out a very small pop to determine exposure. The situation becomes somewhat like when you try to meter past the capability of the meter - like old stop down - so the pre-flash is small and the light modifier cuts 3 stops of light and the little pop didn't put out 3 stops to begin with. Now the reading would be incorrect and the main flash pop would be too strong. Not saying it would always happen, but I could imagine problems with some kinds of modifiers - especially the stronger diffusers. In some situations, taking a shot and then looking at the histogram would work well. In wedding photography, that would mostly not work - you can't afford a test shot most of the time. -- Best regards, Bruce Monday, March 5, 2007, 9:48:31 AM, you wrote: GD> Not sure what you mean by "light modifiers" and how they would be any GD> different when using something that reads a P-TTL pre-flash and GD> something that reads the flash at exposure time. GD> I've had several dedicated TTL flash systems in the past. They had an GD> advantage when doing macro work or using filters as I had to do less GD> thinking about how to apply compensation for the light loss. But only GD> up to a point ... and that was with film. With digital preview, any GD> such situation is easily evaluated without even making an exposure. I GD> suspect that digital preview would have been a wonder when I was GD> using film SLRs... instant exposure feedback!!! for nothing!!! That's GD> what we used to waste hundreds of dollars on with polaroids ... :-) GD> Godfrey GD> On Mar 5, 2007, at 8:56 AM, Bruce Dayton wrote: >> My experience is somewhat similar, even though I do quite a bit of >> flash photography at weddings and events. If I am just doing daylight >> fill, then the AF360FGZ or AF540FGZ work very well as they can be >> dialed for compensation and support hi speed synch. Basically just >> dial in the amount of fill you want on the flash and start shooting >> just as if the flash wasn't there. >> >> When the flash is the primary light source, things change quite a bit. >> TTL or P-TTL on my *istD were fairly inconsistent. Not that I >> couldn't get a usable image, but that I couldn't get consistent >> exposure - usually underexposed. Since getting the K10D, I have shot >> two weddings using the AF400T in auto mode and have gotten a much >> better exposure overall and fairly consistent. I do kind of wonder >> how well the AF540FGZ would do in comparison. >> >> There is one benefit to the TTL method, although I don't know how well >> the P-TTL would actually work - that is when using light modifiers - >> especially strong ones - the theory is that the light hitting the >> sensor is measured for the exposure. But some of the light modifiers >> can eat up 2-3 stops of light. Since the P-TTL is a quicker, weaker >> flash, I could see how it might get misread. Can't say that I have >> really experimented enough to know but I could see some problems. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Not sure what you mean by "light modifiers" and how they would be any different when using something that reads a P-TTL pre-flash and something that reads the flash at exposure time. I've had several dedicated TTL flash systems in the past. They had an advantage when doing macro work or using filters as I had to do less thinking about how to apply compensation for the light loss. But only up to a point ... and that was with film. With digital preview, any such situation is easily evaluated without even making an exposure. I suspect that digital preview would have been a wonder when I was using film SLRs... instant exposure feedback!!! for nothing!!! That's what we used to waste hundreds of dollars on with polaroids ... :-) Godfrey On Mar 5, 2007, at 8:56 AM, Bruce Dayton wrote: > My experience is somewhat similar, even though I do quite a bit of > flash photography at weddings and events. If I am just doing daylight > fill, then the AF360FGZ or AF540FGZ work very well as they can be > dialed for compensation and support hi speed synch. Basically just > dial in the amount of fill you want on the flash and start shooting > just as if the flash wasn't there. > > When the flash is the primary light source, things change quite a bit. > TTL or P-TTL on my *istD were fairly inconsistent. Not that I > couldn't get a usable image, but that I couldn't get consistent > exposure - usually underexposed. Since getting the K10D, I have shot > two weddings using the AF400T in auto mode and have gotten a much > better exposure overall and fairly consistent. I do kind of wonder > how well the AF540FGZ would do in comparison. > > There is one benefit to the TTL method, although I don't know how well > the P-TTL would actually work - that is when using light modifiers - > especially strong ones - the theory is that the light hitting the > sensor is measured for the exposure. But some of the light modifiers > can eat up 2-3 stops of light. Since the P-TTL is a quicker, weaker > flash, I could see how it might get misread. Can't say that I have > really experimented enough to know but I could see some problems. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
I very much doubt if movement of the sensor would have any measurable effect on the amount of light reflected towards off-sensor metering. On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 09:01:17AM +0100, Henk Terhell wrote: > Pentax could have supported TTL only for SR switched off. > > Henk > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Thibouille > > Sent: 05 March, 2007 8:17 AM > > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > > > > Indeed metering on a sensor which is moving wouldn't be fun at all ;) > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
My experience is somewhat similar, even though I do quite a bit of flash photography at weddings and events. If I am just doing daylight fill, then the AF360FGZ or AF540FGZ work very well as they can be dialed for compensation and support hi speed synch. Basically just dial in the amount of fill you want on the flash and start shooting just as if the flash wasn't there. When the flash is the primary light source, things change quite a bit. TTL or P-TTL on my *istD were fairly inconsistent. Not that I couldn't get a usable image, but that I couldn't get consistent exposure - usually underexposed. Since getting the K10D, I have shot two weddings using the AF400T in auto mode and have gotten a much better exposure overall and fairly consistent. I do kind of wonder how well the AF540FGZ would do in comparison. There is one benefit to the TTL method, although I don't know how well the P-TTL would actually work - that is when using light modifiers - especially strong ones - the theory is that the light hitting the sensor is measured for the exposure. But some of the light modifiers can eat up 2-3 stops of light. Since the P-TTL is a quicker, weaker flash, I could see how it might get misread. Can't say that I have really experimented enough to know but I could see some problems. -- Best regards, Bruce Monday, March 5, 2007, 7:19:36 AM, you wrote: GD> I use a non-dedicated auto flash and/or manual multi-flash setup with GD> a flash meter, or just look at a preview exposure with histogram. I GD> have not seen much benefit in using a TTL or even P-TTL flash at all. GD> Where having a P-TTL compatible flash is of some interest to me is GD> that they support high speed sync for daylight fill. GD> I've seen both Nikon, Canon and other manufacturers go through GD> successive incompatible generations of auto-TTL flash metering GD> systems. Don't see why Pentax would be any exception. It's an area GD> where a lot of development is ongoing. GD> G GD> On Mar 5, 2007, at 1:42 AM, Henk Terhell wrote: >> Agreed. It is only that flash on my istD is so much easier to use and >> more accurate. I will have to live with the many miss hits because I >> keep forgetting to switch camera and flash modes. Or buy a P-TTL >> flash. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
I use a non-dedicated auto flash and/or manual multi-flash setup with a flash meter, or just look at a preview exposure with histogram. I have not seen much benefit in using a TTL or even P-TTL flash at all. Where having a P-TTL compatible flash is of some interest to me is that they support high speed sync for daylight fill. I've seen both Nikon, Canon and other manufacturers go through successive incompatible generations of auto-TTL flash metering systems. Don't see why Pentax would be any exception. It's an area where a lot of development is ongoing. G On Mar 5, 2007, at 1:42 AM, Henk Terhell wrote: > Agreed. It is only that flash on my istD is so much easier to use and > more accurate. I will have to live with the many miss hits because I > keep forgetting to switch camera and flash modes. Or buy a P-TTL > flash. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Agreed. It is only that flash on my istD is so much easier to use and more accurate. I will have to live with the many miss hits because I keep forgetting to switch camera and flash modes. Or buy a P-TTL flash. Henk > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Thibouille > Sent: 05 March, 2007 10:13 AM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > I agree but go explain to a lambda user that normal TTL works > when SR off but not on and PTTL always work. Pentax would get > flamed pretty quick for this. Just because it would seem > weird to most poeple. And reviews would bash it too IMO. > > 2007/3/5, Henk Terhell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Pentax could have supported TTL only for SR switched off. > > > > Henk -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
I agree but go explain to a lambda user that normal TTL works when SR off but not on and PTTL always work. Pentax would get flamed pretty quick for this. Just because it would seem weird to most poeple. And reviews would bash it too IMO. 2007/3/5, Henk Terhell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Pentax could have supported TTL only for SR switched off. > > Henk > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Thibouille > > Sent: 05 March, 2007 8:17 AM > > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > > > > Indeed metering on a sensor which is moving wouldn't be fun at all ;) > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Pentax could have supported TTL only for SR switched off. Henk > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Thibouille > Sent: 05 March, 2007 8:17 AM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > Indeed metering on a sensor which is moving wouldn't be fun at all ;) > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Indeed metering on a sensor which is moving wouldn't be fun at all ;) 2007/3/5, Boris Liberman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Henk, it has been said out loud in one of the interviews with Pentax > managers that Ken so generously translate to us - it was either support > for TTL or Shake Reduction. Reluctantly I have to agree with Pentax that > Shake Reduction is generally more appealing to more customers than TTL > support. > > Boris > > > > > Henk Terhell wrote: > > So that means that Pentax have supported TTL on bodies and flash units > > for about 27 years and then came out with a new top-line body that is > > handicapped to handle TTL-flash units produced over these days. This is > > a non-Pentax like strategy that I cannot understand, also if considering > > the effort Pentax must have put in to enable manually setting the SR for > > non-AF lenses. Of course, flashes are cheaper than most lenses. > > > > Henk > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Henk, it has been said out loud in one of the interviews with Pentax managers that Ken so generously translate to us - it was either support for TTL or Shake Reduction. Reluctantly I have to agree with Pentax that Shake Reduction is generally more appealing to more customers than TTL support. Boris Henk Terhell wrote: > So that means that Pentax have supported TTL on bodies and flash units > for about 27 years and then came out with a new top-line body that is > handicapped to handle TTL-flash units produced over these days. This is > a non-Pentax like strategy that I cannot understand, also if considering > the effort Pentax must have put in to enable manually setting the SR for > non-AF lenses. Of course, flashes are cheaper than most lenses. > > Henk -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Henk Terhell wrote: > So that means that Pentax have supported TTL on bodies and flash units > for about 27 years and then came out with a new top-line body that is > handicapped to handle TTL-flash units produced over these days. This is > a non-Pentax like strategy that I cannot understand, also if considering > the effort Pentax must have put in to enable manually setting the SR for > non-AF lenses. Of course, flashes are cheaper than most lenses. > > Henk Pentax has had three different TTL flash systems. Probably. > > >>-Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>Behalf Of Adam Maas >>Sent: 03 March, 2007 4:33 PM >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response >> >> >>No, the LX had TTL flash in 1980, 3 years before the SuperA. >>Teh SuperA >>was the first consumer TTL body from Pentax. >> >>-Adam >> >> > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
This and the fact that .. heck saw the price of the K10D ? C'mon... 2007/3/4, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > TTL doesn't seem to work very well with digital sensors. I suspect that > has a lot to do with the lack of support. > paul > On Mar 4, 2007, at 5:52 PM, Henk Terhell wrote: > > > So that means that Pentax have supported TTL on bodies and flash units > > for about 27 years and then came out with a new top-line body that is > > handicapped to handle TTL-flash units produced over these days. This is > > a non-Pentax like strategy that I cannot understand, also if > > considering > > the effort Pentax must have put in to enable manually setting the SR > > for > > non-AF lenses. Of course, flashes are cheaper than most lenses. > > > > Henk > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > >> Behalf Of Adam Maas > >> Sent: 03 March, 2007 4:33 PM > >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > >> > >> > >> No, the LX had TTL flash in 1980, 3 years before the SuperA. > >> Teh SuperA > >> was the first consumer TTL body from Pentax. > >> > >> -Adam > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
TTL doesn't seem to work very well with digital sensors. I suspect that has a lot to do with the lack of support. paul On Mar 4, 2007, at 5:52 PM, Henk Terhell wrote: > So that means that Pentax have supported TTL on bodies and flash units > for about 27 years and then came out with a new top-line body that is > handicapped to handle TTL-flash units produced over these days. This is > a non-Pentax like strategy that I cannot understand, also if > considering > the effort Pentax must have put in to enable manually setting the SR > for > non-AF lenses. Of course, flashes are cheaper than most lenses. > > Henk > >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of Adam Maas >> Sent: 03 March, 2007 4:33 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response >> >> >> No, the LX had TTL flash in 1980, 3 years before the SuperA. >> Teh SuperA >> was the first consumer TTL body from Pentax. >> >> -Adam >> >> > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
So that means that Pentax have supported TTL on bodies and flash units for about 27 years and then came out with a new top-line body that is handicapped to handle TTL-flash units produced over these days. This is a non-Pentax like strategy that I cannot understand, also if considering the effort Pentax must have put in to enable manually setting the SR for non-AF lenses. Of course, flashes are cheaper than most lenses. Henk > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Adam Maas > Sent: 03 March, 2007 4:33 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > No, the LX had TTL flash in 1980, 3 years before the SuperA. > Teh SuperA > was the first consumer TTL body from Pentax. > > -Adam > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
AFAIK, trailing curtain sync is a digital TTL feature. 2007/3/3, mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > John Francis wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 12:13:11AM +, mike wilson wrote: > > > >>I will eat Cotty's hat if any of the FGZ flashes do analogue TTL. > > > > > > I think Cotty might need a new hat ... > > > > According to the manual that comes with the AF540FGZ it supports > > TTL with the LX, 645 and Super Program (among others). I think > > that all of those cameras are old enough to use the earliest form > > of TTL, which is (I believe) what you are calling analogue TTL. > > > > > The manual does indeed say that the flash will do TTL with the bodies > you mention. But it also says (p68) that you can do trailing curtain > flash with TTL on the LX. That was not a feature of any Pentax flash > system I have seen up to now. Mainly because, I believe, the LX does > not have trailing sync contacts. > > Until someone actually tests the combination, I think the hat is aafe. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
mike wilson wrote: > jim wrote: > > >>On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 00:56:11 -0500, Adam Maas wrote: >> >> >> >>>mike wilson wrote: >>> >>> I will eat Cotty's hat if any of the FGZ flashes do analogue TTL. >> >> >>>Start eating, the FGZ's do all three types along with Auto thyristor >>>flash and manual, unlike the AF500 which only does digital and manual. >> >> >> >>Do hope it is very tasty:) >> >>I have a 360FGZ flash and it's manual on page 14 only lists 2 types of TTL. >>The P-TTL and TTL. >>it lists LX , Super A 645N and 67II usable with TTL (amongst others). >>I would say that with the ME Super, MG, MV that the flash would be able to >>set the shutter speed. >> >>Funny thing is tho the SF7 is listed on page 14 as not being able to do TTL >>or to use the AF spot beam >>The SF7 must be sent back to pentax to be modifyed to use both. The 540FGZ >>manual only lists the SF7 as not being able to do TTL, nothing about a >>modifcation. >>who would bother? > > > What the manuals say and what the flashes do may be two entirely > different things. According to the 540 manual, the LX can do trailing > sync flash. I'm really quite interested in this as the newer flashes > are really quite capable pieces of kit. > > My belief that there are two types of digital interface goes back to the two types of TTL interface > AF500FTZ, which specifically states in the manual that it will only work > in TTL with autofocus cameras and not all of those. This is backed up > by Boz's site, if you look at how the flash systems are divided up > there. If the digital interface only uses the digital pin to deal with > bells and whistles such as trailing sync but has the same basic TTL > function, that's a different dead cormorant. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
jim wrote: > On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 00:56:11 -0500, Adam Maas wrote: > > >>mike wilson wrote: >> >>>I will eat Cotty's hat if any of the FGZ flashes do analogue TTL. >>> > > >>Start eating, the FGZ's do all three types along with Auto thyristor >>flash and manual, unlike the AF500 which only does digital and manual. > > > > Do hope it is very tasty:) > > I have a 360FGZ flash and it's manual on page 14 only lists 2 types of TTL. > The P-TTL and TTL. > it lists LX , Super A 645N and 67II usable with TTL (amongst others). > I would say that with the ME Super, MG, MV that the flash would be able to > set the shutter speed. > > Funny thing is tho the SF7 is listed on page 14 as not being able to do TTL > or to use the AF spot beam > The SF7 must be sent back to pentax to be modifyed to use both. The 540FGZ > manual only lists the SF7 as not being able to do TTL, nothing about a > modifcation. > who would bother? What the manuals say and what the flashes do may be two entirely different things. According to the 540 manual, the LX can do trailing sync flash. I'm really quite interested in this as the newer flashes are really quite capable pieces of kit. My belief that there are two types of digital interface goes back to the AF500FTZ, which specifically states in the manual that it will only work in TTL with autofocus cameras and not all of those. This is backed up by Boz's site, if you look at how the flash systems are divided up there. If the digital interface only uses the digital pin to deal with bells and whistles such as trailing sync but has the same basic TTL function, that's a different dead cormorant. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
John Francis wrote: > On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 12:13:11AM +, mike wilson wrote: > >>I will eat Cotty's hat if any of the FGZ flashes do analogue TTL. > > > I think Cotty might need a new hat ... > > According to the manual that comes with the AF540FGZ it supports > TTL with the LX, 645 and Super Program (among others). I think > that all of those cameras are old enough to use the earliest form > of TTL, which is (I believe) what you are calling analogue TTL. > > The manual does indeed say that the flash will do TTL with the bodies you mention. But it also says (p68) that you can do trailing curtain flash with TTL on the LX. That was not a feature of any Pentax flash system I have seen up to now. Mainly because, I believe, the LX does not have trailing sync contacts. Until someone actually tests the combination, I think the hat is aafe. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
And, just to confirm, the AF540FGZ manual says it will do TTL flash with both those cameras (and with the original 645). On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 10:33:26AM -0500, Adam Maas wrote: > No, the LX had TTL flash in 1980, 3 years before the SuperA. Teh SuperA > was the first consumer TTL body from Pentax. > > -Adam > > > Jens Bladt wrote: > > I believe the first Pentax to support TTL-flash was (the European Camera of > > the Year 1983) Pentax Super A. 24 years ago. > > Regards > > > > Jens Bladt > > > > Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ > > http://www.jensbladt.dk > > +45 56 63 77 11 > > +45 23 43 85 77 > > Skype: jensbladt248 > > > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike > > wilson > > Sendt: 2. marts 2007 14:59 > > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > > > > Correct. I think it cannot be used with any camera earlier then about 1990 > > (can't be bothered to look it up...) other than in full belt manual. > >> From: Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Date: 2007/03/02 Fri PM 01:20:27 GMT > >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > >> > >> The AF540FGZ does both TTL and P-TTL, the AF500 does not do P-TTL or > >> analog TTL (the latter I'm not 100% sure of). > >> > >> -Adam > >> > >> > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
No, the LX had TTL flash in 1980, 3 years before the SuperA. Teh SuperA was the first consumer TTL body from Pentax. -Adam Jens Bladt wrote: > I believe the first Pentax to support TTL-flash was (the European Camera of > the Year 1983) Pentax Super A. 24 years ago. > Regards > > Jens Bladt > > Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ > http://www.jensbladt.dk > +45 56 63 77 11 > +45 23 43 85 77 > Skype: jensbladt248 > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike > wilson > Sendt: 2. marts 2007 14:59 > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > Correct. I think it cannot be used with any camera earlier then about 1990 > (can't be bothered to look it up...) other than in full belt manual. >> From: Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Date: 2007/03/02 Fri PM 01:20:27 GMT >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response >> >> The AF540FGZ does both TTL and P-TTL, the AF500 does not do P-TTL or >> analog TTL (the latter I'm not 100% sure of). >> >> -Adam >> >> -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Analog TTL because of the way it works. Now I'm writing from memory so please be cool with me ;) Analog TTL: One of the contact from the hotshoe (yeah the second contact introduced with TTL system) basicaly has two state: closed or open. It remains closed all the time, bcomes open when flash must fire and goes bacl top closed when flash must stop (or the other way around BTW, not sure anymore). As simple as that. Digital TTL (SF-serie,Z-serie,MZ-serie except MZ-M): a lot of information or exchanged with the camera (not only start/stop for the flash) but flash zoom, Iso, aperture blablabla... Good luck to transmit that i you need a contact for each information, obviously there's a digital protocol at work here. PTTL ( = Digital TTL v2 ?) The one you know, loves or ... hate ;) There's a little bit more information passed with Analog TTL but not directly linked to TTL: in programmed mode, you need aperture etc... otherwise TTL doesn't work in P mode (see Metz flash limited compatibility in Analog TTL and P mode). -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Start eating away! Since I discovered that the AF500FGZ only cost about half of what they originally wanted for the AF500FTZ , I just downloaded the AF500FGZ instructions. It clearly says that it does both TTL and P-TTL. This is a very versatile flash unit. It can be costumized (zoom) to fit many cameras, like 35mm, APS-digital, 645 and 67). Why call it analog TTL?. TTL just means that the camera has a built-in sensor in order to controle the flash duration - Through The Lens. The *ist D does TTL Regards. Jens Bladt Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af jim Sendt: 3. marts 2007 07:25 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 00:56:11 -0500, Adam Maas wrote: >mike wilson wrote: >> >> I will eat Cotty's hat if any of the FGZ flashes do analogue TTL. >> >Start eating, the FGZ's do all three types along with Auto thyristor >flash and manual, unlike the AF500 which only does digital and manual. Do hope it is very tasty:) I have a 360FGZ flash and it's manual on page 14 only lists 2 types of TTL. The P-TTL and TTL. it lists LX , Super A 645N and 67II usable with TTL (amongst others). I would say that with the ME Super, MG, MV that the flash would be able to set the shutter speed. Funny thing is tho the SF7 is listed on page 14 as not being able to do TTL or to use the AF spot beam The SF7 must be sent back to pentax to be modifyed to use both. The 540FGZ manual only lists the SF7 as not being able to do TTL, nothing about a modifcation. who would bother? James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 14:43 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.6/708 - Release Date: 03/02/2007 16:19 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
I believe the first Pentax to support TTL-flash was (the European Camera of the Year 1983) Pentax Super A. 24 years ago. Regards Jens Bladt Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike wilson Sendt: 2. marts 2007 14:59 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response Correct. I think it cannot be used with any camera earlier then about 1990 (can't be bothered to look it up...) other than in full belt manual. > > From: Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2007/03/02 Fri PM 01:20:27 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > The AF540FGZ does both TTL and P-TTL, the AF500 does not do P-TTL or > analog TTL (the latter I'm not 100% sure of). > > -Adam > > > Jens Bladt wrote: > > BTW: > > The AF500FGZ features both TTL and P-TTL, so it can be used successfully > > (TTL or P-TTL) with almost any Pentax SLR camera - since 1983 (Super A) with > > a few exceptions -like P30, P50, ... > > > > I'm gonna get me one of those soon - I whish :-) > > Regards > > > > Jens Bladt > > > > Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ > > http://www.jensbladt.dk > > +45 56 63 77 11 > > +45 23 43 85 77 > > Skype: jensbladt248 > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse- > > Fra: Jens Bladt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sendt: 2. marts 2007 11:40 > > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Emne: RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > > > > cbwaters wrote: > > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > >> however it will only work in manual mode." > >> > >> Now you know. > > > > Not true, body! > > Any dedicated flash can be used in ANY mode on the K10D. (Except they don't > > do TTL with the K10D - no flash does TTL on K10D!). > > > > There's is one exception though - flashes like the old AF500FTZ, that does > > NOT feature Automatic Aperture modes (it simply doesn't have a sensor in the > > flash unit). > > This flash sucks with the K10D - it does only full power or TTL!. > > > > The K10D does P-TTL - (which requires a P-TTL flash like the AF360FGZ or > > the AF540FGZ.), which is a sort of "pre-fire-and-meter" kind of TTL - > > perhaps superior to ordenary TTL, perhaps not. > > > > Regards > > Jens Bladt > > > > Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ > > http://www.jensbladt.dk > > +45 56 63 77 11 > > +45 23 43 85 77 > > Skype: jensbladt248 > > > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike > > wilson > > Sendt: 2. marts 2007 10:16 > > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > > > > > >> From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 12:17:43 GMT > >> To: "Pdml@pdml.net" > >> Subject: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > >> > >> After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking > > the > >> K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to > >> mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > >> I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn > >> thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. > >> The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > >> flashes. > >> > >> Here's their response: > >> "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > >> recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. > >> The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > >> however it will only work in manual mode." > >> > >> Now you know. > > > > A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those statements is that > > the older flashes will not do the "automatically set shutter speed and give > > 'ready' indication in the viewfinder". What Pentax calls "dedication". If > > the body will trigger the flash in manual mode, then auto must work. It > > requires the same trigger and makes its own decision as to when to quench. > >
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
On 3/3/07, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed: >I will eat Cotty's hat if any of the FGZ flashes do analogue TTL. That's my main meal if the K1D ever surfaces, do you mind! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 00:56:11 -0500, Adam Maas wrote: >mike wilson wrote: >> >> I will eat Cotty's hat if any of the FGZ flashes do analogue TTL. >> >Start eating, the FGZ's do all three types along with Auto thyristor >flash and manual, unlike the AF500 which only does digital and manual. Do hope it is very tasty:) I have a 360FGZ flash and it's manual on page 14 only lists 2 types of TTL. The P-TTL and TTL. it lists LX , Super A 645N and 67II usable with TTL (amongst others). I would say that with the ME Super, MG, MV that the flash would be able to set the shutter speed. Funny thing is tho the SF7 is listed on page 14 as not being able to do TTL or to use the AF spot beam The SF7 must be sent back to pentax to be modifyed to use both. The 540FGZ manual only lists the SF7 as not being able to do TTL, nothing about a modifcation. who would bother? James -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
mike wilson wrote: > Thibouille wrote: > >> AFAIK (but could be wrong) both 540FGZ and 360FGZ provide A mode and >> dedication (so can be used on a P3/P30 for example) and analogTTL >> (SuperA, 645, LX). So basicaly they work with anything Pentax you can >> put them on. >> >> For the 360 FGZ I'm pretty sure. > > Pentax has produced three systems of TTL flash. The first, analogue, > system and two digitial ones, the latter being P-TTL. Analogue flashes > will work on both "analogue" cameras and "digital" ones, except for > those that are exclusively P-TTL. The intermediate digital system works > only on the "digital flash" bodies such as the MZ series (maybe all the > autofocus cameras) and also on the original DSLR and some of its > immediate derivatives and (I think) the 67II. > > I will eat Cotty's hat if any of the FGZ flashes do analogue TTL. > Start eating, the FGZ's do all three types along with Auto thyristor flash and manual, unlike the AF500 which only does digital and manual. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 12:13:11AM +, mike wilson wrote: > > I will eat Cotty's hat if any of the FGZ flashes do analogue TTL. I think Cotty might need a new hat ... According to the manual that comes with the AF540FGZ it supports TTL with the LX, 645 and Super Program (among others). I think that all of those cameras are old enough to use the earliest form of TTL, which is (I believe) what you are calling analogue TTL. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Thibouille wrote: > AFAIK (but could be wrong) both 540FGZ and 360FGZ provide A mode and > dedication (so can be used on a P3/P30 for example) and analogTTL > (SuperA, 645, LX). So basicaly they work with anything Pentax you can > put them on. > > For the 360 FGZ I'm pretty sure. Pentax has produced three systems of TTL flash. The first, analogue, system and two digitial ones, the latter being P-TTL. Analogue flashes will work on both "analogue" cameras and "digital" ones, except for those that are exclusively P-TTL. The intermediate digital system works only on the "digital flash" bodies such as the MZ series (maybe all the autofocus cameras) and also on the original DSLR and some of its immediate derivatives and (I think) the 67II. I will eat Cotty's hat if any of the FGZ flashes do analogue TTL. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
On Fri, Mar 02, 2007 at 12:14:56PM +0100, Jens Bladt wrote: > > Any dedicated flash can be used in ANY mode on the K10D. (Except they don't > do TTL with the K10D - no flash does TTL on K10D!). > > There's is one exception though - flashes like the old AF500FTZ, that does > NOT feature Automatic Aperture modes (it simply doesn't have a sensor in the > flash unit). > This flash sucks with the K10D - it does only full power or TTL!. As you point out, nothing does TTL on the K10D. So the AF500FTZ isn't really a lot of use on the K10D. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
On Fri, Mar 02, 2007 at 11:20:44AM +0100, Jens Bladt wrote: > IMO Auto modes - especially programmet AE - never worked well with Pentax > cameras and a flash. > The camera will just set the shutter speed and aperture as if there was no > flash attatched! That's exactly contrary to my experience with the PZ-1p and AF500. Admittedly that's the best camera/flash combination I've seen from Pentax (I haven't used the K10D/540 enough to evaluate them). But on the PZ-1p it would balance the ambient and flash exposure to give the right exposure in every situation from bright California sunshine (where the flash contribution was just fill flash) to dark interiors (totally lit by the flash). The situation that impressed me the most was shooting inside an exhibition tent during the daytime, where it did indeed set the shutter speed close to what would have been chosen with no flash (thus only slightly under-exposing the background), and balanced this with quenching the flash to correctly expose the foreground objects. In my opinion this is precisely the right thing for the camera to do, and not something to complain about. In the absence of any additional user input I'm much happier with a camera that tries to produce an image that shows detail across the frame. The foreground objects are going to be illuminated principally by the flash, no matter what you do; that illumination will be controlled by quenching the flash when it has provided enough light. It's only the distant objects where the ambient light is the primary illumination, so exposing for those will indeed end up with settings similar to those without any flash. Short of repealing the laws of physics, I don't know what else you would expect. You can, of course, bias the camera to provide more or less flash output (by one to two stops). Using this in combination with exposure compensation allows you to control the exposure to get just about any effect you desire. But if you use it in full automatic it will try to avoid both overexposure of the foreground objects and underexposure of distant objects. Complaining about this is about as sensible as complaining that using the camera in full-automatic green mode doesn't provide the amount of motion blur (or depth of field, or shadow detail, or ...) that you wanted. There's a simple solution; use the tools and adjustments provided, rather than relying on the camera to do your thinking for you. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
No! No! Do _not_ measure with a cheap volt meter! Many cheap voltmeters are not very high ohmic. As a result it will "load" the trigger voltage point of the flash, reducing the measured voltage. This is specifically true for the flashes with high voltage, they mostly have a high impedance input circuit, resulting in a voltage on your cheap voltmeter, much lower than the voltage that your camera will feel! How ever many Pentax camera's can handle a high voltage. I have used 200 and 400V flashes on my Z-1 without problem. But when mounting the flash, take care that the 400V is not making contact with the other connection points, the monitor and the squelche contacts are maybe much more vulnerable. I did not test yet on my DS, maybe I better do not Jos Nick Wright wrote: > The reason older flash units might wreck a new dSLR is because some of > them had higher trigger voltages. You can check your flash's voltage > with a $5 voltmeter from WallyWorld. As long as it's under 6 volts (I > think) it will be safe on your camera. To check just put one of the > meter's probes on the center pin on the flash's foot, and the other > probe on the little metal tab on the side of the foot (while the flash > is on). Viola! > > On 3/1/07, Markus Maurer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Yes, the AF280T has auto modes like the AF400T and is only weaker at gn28 >> instead of gn40. >> greetings >> Markus >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of >> Paul Stenquist >> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:54 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response >> >> >> Does the 280T have an auto mode like the 400T? If so, it can be used in >> that mode, and it will probably function quite well. The 400T is quite >> good in auto mode on the K10D. >> Paul >> On Mar 1, 2007, at 7:17 PM, cbwaters wrote: >> >> >>> After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of >>> wrecking the >>> K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant >>> to >>> mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. >>> I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really >>> worn >>> thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of >>> late. >>> The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old >>> flashes. >>> >>> Here's their response: >>> "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The >>> recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the >>> AF540FGZ. >>> The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, >>> however it will only work in manual mode." >>> >>> Now you know. >>> >>> Cory >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> >>> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> >> > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
- Original Message - From: "Thibouille" Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > AFAIK (but could be wrong) both 540FGZ and 360FGZ provide A mode and > dedication (so can be used on a P3/P30 for example) and analogTTL > (SuperA, 645, LX). So basicaly they work with anything Pentax you can > put them on. > I just tried the AF540FGZ on an LX. With the flash set to auto, it forces sync speed and provides automatic exposure. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
AFAIK (but could be wrong) both 540FGZ and 360FGZ provide A mode and dedication (so can be used on a P3/P30 for example) and analogTTL (SuperA, 645, LX). So basicaly they work with anything Pentax you can put them on. For the 360 FGZ I'm pretty sure. 2007/3/2, mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Correct. I think it cannot be used with any camera earlier then about 1990 > (can't be bothered to look it up...) other than in full belt manual. > > > > From: Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 2007/03/02 Fri PM 01:20:27 GMT > > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > > The AF540FGZ does both TTL and P-TTL, the AF500 does not do P-TTL or > > analog TTL (the latter I'm not 100% sure of). > > > > -Adam > > > > > > Jens Bladt wrote: > > > BTW: > > > The AF500FGZ features both TTL and P-TTL, so it can be used successfully > > > (TTL or P-TTL) with almost any Pentax SLR camera - since 1983 (Super A) > > > with > > > a few exceptions -like P30, P50, ... > > > > > > I'm gonna get me one of those soon - I whish :-) > > > Regards > > > > > > Jens Bladt > > > > > > Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ > > > http://www.jensbladt.dk > > > +45 56 63 77 11 > > > +45 23 43 85 77 > > > Skype: jensbladt248 > > > > > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > > > Fra: Jens Bladt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sendt: 2. marts 2007 11:40 > > > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > > Emne: RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > > > > > > > cbwaters wrote: > > > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > > >> however it will only work in manual mode." > > >> > > >> Now you know. > > > > > > Not true, body! > > > Any dedicated flash can be used in ANY mode on the K10D. (Except they > > > don't > > > do TTL with the K10D - no flash does TTL on K10D!). > > > > > > There's is one exception though - flashes like the old AF500FTZ, that does > > > NOT feature Automatic Aperture modes (it simply doesn't have a sensor in > > > the > > > flash unit). > > > This flash sucks with the K10D - it does only full power or TTL!. > > > > > > The K10D does P-TTL - (which requires a P-TTL flash like the AF360FGZ > > > or > > > the AF540FGZ.), which is a sort of "pre-fire-and-meter" kind of TTL - > > > perhaps superior to ordenary TTL, perhaps not. > > > > > > Regards > > > Jens Bladt > > > > > > Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ > > > http://www.jensbladt.dk > > > +45 56 63 77 11 > > > +45 23 43 85 77 > > > Skype: jensbladt248 > > > > > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > > > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike > > > wilson > > > Sendt: 2. marts 2007 10:16 > > > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > > Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 12:17:43 GMT > > >> To: "Pdml@pdml.net" > > >> Subject: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > >> > > >> After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking > > > the > > >> K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to > > >> mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > > >> I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn > > >> thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. > > >> The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > > >> flashes. > > >> > > >> Here's their response: > > >> "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > > >> recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. > > >> The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > > >> however it will only work in manual mode." > > >> > > >> Now you know. > > > > > > A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those statements is > > >
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Finny thing, my old AF400T will still give flash ready signal in the viewfinder of the K10D. I suspect that the 280T will too. Same basic technology. -- Best regards, Bruce Friday, March 2, 2007, 1:15:53 AM, you wrote: >> >> From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 12:17:43 GMT >> To: "Pdml@pdml.net" >> Subject: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response >> >> After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking the >> K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to >> mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. >> I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn >> thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. >> The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old >> flashes. >> >> Here's their response: >> "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The >> recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. >> The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, >> however it will only work in manual mode." >> >> Now you know. mw> A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those mw> statements is that the older flashes will not do the mw> "automatically set shutter speed and give 'ready' indication in mw> the viewfinder". What Pentax calls "dedication". If the body mw> will trigger the flash in manual mode, then auto must work. It mw> requires the same trigger and makes its own decision as to when to mw> quench. mw> - mw> Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email mw> Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Correct. I think it cannot be used with any camera earlier then about 1990 (can't be bothered to look it up...) other than in full belt manual. > > From: Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2007/03/02 Fri PM 01:20:27 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > The AF540FGZ does both TTL and P-TTL, the AF500 does not do P-TTL or > analog TTL (the latter I'm not 100% sure of). > > -Adam > > > Jens Bladt wrote: > > BTW: > > The AF500FGZ features both TTL and P-TTL, so it can be used successfully > > (TTL or P-TTL) with almost any Pentax SLR camera - since 1983 (Super A) with > > a few exceptions -like P30, P50, ... > > > > I'm gonna get me one of those soon - I whish :-) > > Regards > > > > Jens Bladt > > > > Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ > > http://www.jensbladt.dk > > +45 56 63 77 11 > > +45 23 43 85 77 > > Skype: jensbladt248 > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse- > > Fra: Jens Bladt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sendt: 2. marts 2007 11:40 > > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Emne: RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > > > > cbwaters wrote: > > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > >> however it will only work in manual mode." > >> > >> Now you know. > > > > Not true, body! > > Any dedicated flash can be used in ANY mode on the K10D. (Except they don't > > do TTL with the K10D - no flash does TTL on K10D!). > > > > There's is one exception though - flashes like the old AF500FTZ, that does > > NOT feature Automatic Aperture modes (it simply doesn't have a sensor in the > > flash unit). > > This flash sucks with the K10D - it does only full power or TTL!. > > > > The K10D does P-TTL - (which requires a P-TTL flash like the AF360FGZ or > > the AF540FGZ.), which is a sort of "pre-fire-and-meter" kind of TTL - > > perhaps superior to ordenary TTL, perhaps not. > > > > Regards > > Jens Bladt > > > > Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ > > http://www.jensbladt.dk > > +45 56 63 77 11 > > +45 23 43 85 77 > > Skype: jensbladt248 > > > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike > > wilson > > Sendt: 2. marts 2007 10:16 > > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > > > > > >> From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 12:17:43 GMT > >> To: "Pdml@pdml.net" > >> Subject: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > >> > >> After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking > > the > >> K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to > >> mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > >> I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn > >> thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. > >> The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > >> flashes. > >> > >> Here's their response: > >> "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > >> recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. > >> The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > >> however it will only work in manual mode." > >> > >> Now you know. > > > > A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those statements is that > > the older flashes will not do the "automatically set shutter speed and give > > 'ready' indication in the viewfinder". What Pentax calls "dedication". If > > the body will trigger the flash in manual mode, then auto must work. It > > requires the same trigger and makes its own decision as to when to quench. > > > > > > - > > Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email > > Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
The AF540FGZ does both TTL and P-TTL, the AF500 does not do P-TTL or analog TTL (the latter I'm not 100% sure of). -Adam Jens Bladt wrote: > BTW: > The AF500FGZ features both TTL and P-TTL, so it can be used successfully > (TTL or P-TTL) with almost any Pentax SLR camera - since 1983 (Super A) with > a few exceptions -like P30, P50, ... > > I'm gonna get me one of those soon - I whish :-) > Regards > > Jens Bladt > > Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ > http://www.jensbladt.dk > +45 56 63 77 11 > +45 23 43 85 77 > Skype: jensbladt248 > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: Jens Bladt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sendt: 2. marts 2007 11:40 > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Emne: RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > cbwaters wrote: > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, >> however it will only work in manual mode." >> >> Now you know. > > Not true, body! > Any dedicated flash can be used in ANY mode on the K10D. (Except they don't > do TTL with the K10D - no flash does TTL on K10D!). > > There's is one exception though - flashes like the old AF500FTZ, that does > NOT feature Automatic Aperture modes (it simply doesn't have a sensor in the > flash unit). > This flash sucks with the K10D - it does only full power or TTL!. > > The K10D does P-TTL - (which requires a P-TTL flash like the AF360FGZ or > the AF540FGZ.), which is a sort of "pre-fire-and-meter" kind of TTL - > perhaps superior to ordenary TTL, perhaps not. > > Regards > Jens Bladt > > Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ > http://www.jensbladt.dk > +45 56 63 77 11 > +45 23 43 85 77 > Skype: jensbladt248 > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike > wilson > Sendt: 2. marts 2007 10:16 > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > >> From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 12:17:43 GMT >> To: "Pdml@pdml.net" >> Subject: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response >> >> After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking > the >> K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to >> mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. >> I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn >> thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. >> The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old >> flashes. >> >> Here's their response: >> "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The >> recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. >> The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, >> however it will only work in manual mode." >> >> Now you know. > > A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those statements is that > the older flashes will not do the "automatically set shutter speed and give > 'ready' indication in the viewfinder". What Pentax calls "dedication". If > the body will trigger the flash in manual mode, then auto must work. It > requires the same trigger and makes its own decision as to when to quench. > > > - > Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email > Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 > 14:43 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 > 14:43 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 > 14:43 > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 > 14:43 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 > 14:43 > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
> > From: Boris Liberman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 10:12:21 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > Hi! > > mike wilson wrote: > > A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those statements > > is that the older flashes will not do the "automatically set shutter > > speed and give 'ready' indication in the viewfinder". What Pentax > > calls "dedication". If the body will trigger the flash in manual > > mode, then auto must work. It requires the same trigger and makes > > its own decision as to when to quench. > > Well, that's not exactly right, what you say Mike. I have AF220T and it > gives "ready" indication in the viewfinder. Also I cannot set a shutter > speed to faster than X-sync even in manual mode. So dedication is preserved. > > However since the flash has no modes except TTL, I set my camera to > manual mode and fire it away. It always fires at full power and I have > to set aperture *manually* to get proper exposure. Otherwise, it works, > whatever "works" may mean in this context. > > Boris (who may have been confused by the language again) Well, I wasn't being totally detailed. 'Older flashes with "auto" capability' would have been a better description. The totally TTL flashes have always been a law unto themselves. I was only trying to rephrase what the writer meant, as what they wrote does not make entire sense to me. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
BTW: The AF500FGZ features both TTL and P-TTL, so it can be used successfully (TTL or P-TTL) with almost any Pentax SLR camera - since 1983 (Super A) with a few exceptions -like P30, P50, ... I'm gonna get me one of those soon - I whish :-) Regards Jens Bladt Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Jens Bladt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 2. marts 2007 11:40 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response cbwaters wrote: The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > however it will only work in manual mode." > > Now you know. Not true, body! Any dedicated flash can be used in ANY mode on the K10D. (Except they don't do TTL with the K10D - no flash does TTL on K10D!). There's is one exception though - flashes like the old AF500FTZ, that does NOT feature Automatic Aperture modes (it simply doesn't have a sensor in the flash unit). This flash sucks with the K10D - it does only full power or TTL!. The K10D does P-TTL - (which requires a P-TTL flash like the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ.), which is a sort of "pre-fire-and-meter" kind of TTL - perhaps superior to ordenary TTL, perhaps not. Regards Jens Bladt Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike wilson Sendt: 2. marts 2007 10:16 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 12:17:43 GMT > To: "Pdml@pdml.net" > Subject: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking the > K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to > mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn > thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. > The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > flashes. > > Here's their response: > "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > however it will only work in manual mode." > > Now you know. A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those statements is that the older flashes will not do the "automatically set shutter speed and give 'ready' indication in the viewfinder". What Pentax calls "dedication". If the body will trigger the flash in manual mode, then auto must work. It requires the same trigger and makes its own decision as to when to quench. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 14:43 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 14:43 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 14:43 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 14:43 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 14:43 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
cbwaters wrote: The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > however it will only work in manual mode." > > Now you know. Not true, body! Any dedicated flash can be used in ANY mode on the K10D. (Except they don't do TTL with the K10D - no flash does TTL on K10D!). There's is one exception though - flashes like the old AF500FTZ, that does NOT feature Automatic Aperture modes (it simply doesn't have a sensor in the flash unit). This flash sucks with the K10D - it does only full power or TTL!. The K10D does P-TTL - (which requires a P-TTL flash like the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ.), which is a sort of "pre-fire-and-meter" kind of TTL - perhaps superior to ordenary TTL, perhaps not. Regards Jens Bladt Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike wilson Sendt: 2. marts 2007 10:16 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 12:17:43 GMT > To: "Pdml@pdml.net" > Subject: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking the > K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to > mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn > thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. > The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > flashes. > > Here's their response: > "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > however it will only work in manual mode." > > Now you know. A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those statements is that the older flashes will not do the "automatically set shutter speed and give 'ready' indication in the viewfinder". What Pentax calls "dedication". If the body will trigger the flash in manual mode, then auto must work. It requires the same trigger and makes its own decision as to when to quench. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 14:43 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 14:43 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Hi! mike wilson wrote: > A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those statements > is that the older flashes will not do the "automatically set shutter > speed and give 'ready' indication in the viewfinder". What Pentax > calls "dedication". If the body will trigger the flash in manual > mode, then auto must work. It requires the same trigger and makes > its own decision as to when to quench. Well, that's not exactly right, what you say Mike. I have AF220T and it gives "ready" indication in the viewfinder. Also I cannot set a shutter speed to faster than X-sync even in manual mode. So dedication is preserved. However since the flash has no modes except TTL, I set my camera to manual mode and fire it away. It always fires at full power and I have to set aperture *manually* to get proper exposure. Otherwise, it works, whatever "works" may mean in this context. Boris (who may have been confused by the language again) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
IMO Auto modes - especially programmet AE - never worked well with Pentax cameras and a flash. The camera will just set the shutter speed and aperture as if there was no flash attatched! (Except of course for speed that will exeed the max sync speed (1/180 fro the K10D) The result is often using to large F- stops, regardless of the fact, that there might have been light (power) enough for a better aperture! You can of cource use Av, but then you never know if the flash is actually powerfull enough. And - if there's available light present - the speed may very well be to slow to freeze subject or camera movement. So, I always use "M" mode for flash photography. I will then evaluate the avaliable light, need for speed, DOF etc. IMO a good flash system would mean that the camera would KNOW (read) how powerfull the flash really is - and compare the data to the current focusing distance and to the amount of available light - and THEN decide/suggest the speed and the aperture - or ISO for that matter. Hey - I should take out a patent on this! Or perhaps someone already did? Nikon has some kind of 3D flash system, right? I can confirm, that AE will still work without a didcated flash - except for the sync speed limit, that will NOT be restricted to a useable sync speed. A simple check: If there's a flash ready light in the viewfinder (dedicated flash) - the sync speed limit will NOT be EXEEDED - no matter which MODE is used. Retards Jens Bladt Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af mike wilson Sendt: 2. marts 2007 10:16 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 12:17:43 GMT > To: "Pdml@pdml.net" > Subject: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking the > K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to > mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn > thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. > The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > flashes. > > Here's their response: > "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > however it will only work in manual mode." > > Now you know. A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those statements is that the older flashes will not do the "automatically set shutter speed and give 'ready' indication in the viewfinder". What Pentax calls "dedication". If the body will trigger the flash in manual mode, then auto must work. It requires the same trigger and makes its own decision as to when to quench. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 14:43 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 03/01/2007 14:43 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
> > From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2007/03/02 Fri AM 12:17:43 GMT > To: "Pdml@pdml.net" > Subject: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking the > K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to > mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn > thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. > The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > flashes. > > Here's their response: > "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > however it will only work in manual mode." > > Now you know. A pity that it is utter twaddle. My assumtion from those statements is that the older flashes will not do the "automatically set shutter speed and give 'ready' indication in the viewfinder". What Pentax calls "dedication". If the body will trigger the flash in manual mode, then auto must work. It requires the same trigger and makes its own decision as to when to quench. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
I believe the trigger voltage of the AF280T is aprr. 7-8 VOLT. This should not be a problem for the K10D. Or could it??? (I have used Metz 45 and 60, featureing voltages above 20-30 volts on the D for years. Scary, isn't it?) Naturally the TTL doesn't work, so use Auto-mode on the flash. And Manual mode or X-mode (1/180 sec) on the camera. BTW: Does anyone know how high the maximum trigger voltage might be (K10D)? http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html Jens Bladt Latest photographs: http://flickr.com/photos/bladt/ http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Bruce Dayton Sendt: 2. marts 2007 06:55 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response Kind of a poorly worded response. The reality is that the 280T can be used in it's automatic mode. You will need to set the camera to manual mode, however. So set a shutter speed to x synch or slower and set your f-stop to the flash setting. Set the flash to the ISO on camera and one of the two auto ranges. Fire away. I have already shot two weddings on my K10D and AF400T using Auto mode of the flash without any surprises. They are just saying the camera will need to be in manual mode. -- Bruce Thursday, March 1, 2007, 4:17:43 PM, you wrote: c> After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking the c> K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to c> mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. c> I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn c> thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. c> The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old c> flashes. c> Here's their response: c> "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The c> recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. c> The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, c> however it will only work in manual mode." c> Now you know. c> Cory -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/706 - Release Date: 02/28/2007 16:09 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/706 - Release Date: 02/28/2007 16:09 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Kind of a poorly worded response. The reality is that the 280T can be used in it's automatic mode. You will need to set the camera to manual mode, however. So set a shutter speed to x synch or slower and set your f-stop to the flash setting. Set the flash to the ISO on camera and one of the two auto ranges. Fire away. I have already shot two weddings on my K10D and AF400T using Auto mode of the flash without any surprises. They are just saying the camera will need to be in manual mode. -- Bruce Thursday, March 1, 2007, 4:17:43 PM, you wrote: c> After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of wrecking the c> K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant to c> mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. c> I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really worn c> thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of late. c> The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old c> flashes. c> Here's their response: c> "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The c> recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the AF540FGZ. c> The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, c> however it will only work in manual mode." c> Now you know. c> Cory -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
The reason older flash units might wreck a new dSLR is because some of them had higher trigger voltages. You can check your flash's voltage with a $5 voltmeter from WallyWorld. As long as it's under 6 volts (I think) it will be safe on your camera. To check just put one of the meter's probes on the center pin on the flash's foot, and the other probe on the little metal tab on the side of the foot (while the flash is on). Viola! On 3/1/07, Markus Maurer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, the AF280T has auto modes like the AF400T and is only weaker at gn28 > instead of gn40. > greetings > Markus > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Paul Stenquist > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:54 AM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response > > > Does the 280T have an auto mode like the 400T? If so, it can be used in > that mode, and it will probably function quite well. The 400T is quite > good in auto mode on the K10D. > Paul > On Mar 1, 2007, at 7:17 PM, cbwaters wrote: > > > After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of > > wrecking the > > K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant > > to > > mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > > I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really > > worn > > thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of > > late. > > The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > > flashes. > > > > Here's their response: > > "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > > recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the > > AF540FGZ. > > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > > however it will only work in manual mode." > > > > Now you know. > > > > Cory > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- ~Nick Wright http://blog.phojonick.com/ http://www.phojonick.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Yes, the AF280T has auto modes like the AF400T and is only weaker at gn28 instead of gn40. greetings Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Paul Stenquist Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:54 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response Does the 280T have an auto mode like the 400T? If so, it can be used in that mode, and it will probably function quite well. The 400T is quite good in auto mode on the K10D. Paul On Mar 1, 2007, at 7:17 PM, cbwaters wrote: > After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of > wrecking the > K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant > to > mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really > worn > thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of > late. > The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > flashes. > > Here's their response: > "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the > AF540FGZ. > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > however it will only work in manual mode." > > Now you know. > > Cory > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
> Does the 280T have an auto mode like the 400T? If so, it can be used in > that mode, and it will probably function quite well. The 400T is quite > good in auto mode on the K10D. Before I got my 540FGZ, I used a 280T for a couple years on my *istD. It performs very well in auto (non-TTL) mode. It has two auto modes, for close or far subjects, and switching between those modes is all you have to do to use the flash on a digital SLR. The flash's built-in thyristor will do the rest. Now if only there was a better way to keep the 280's battery door closed than a zip tie... ;) John -- http://www.neovenator.com http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: older flashes with K10, Pentax's response
Does the 280T have an auto mode like the 400T? If so, it can be used in that mode, and it will probably function quite well. The 400T is quite good in auto mode on the K10D. Paul On Mar 1, 2007, at 7:17 PM, cbwaters wrote: > After reading some posts a while back about the possibility of > wrecking the > K10's flash circuit by using older flash units, I have been reluctant > to > mount my 280T or 200T to the camera. > I looked at the new "digital ready" flashes online but I have really > worn > thin the good graces of the Finance Mistress with the purchases of > late. > The only remaining path was to ask Pentax if I could safely use my old > flashes. > > Here's their response: > "The K10D is not compatible with a TTL flash in automatic mode. The > recommended flashes are P-TTL types such as the AF360FGZ or the > AF540FGZ. > The AF220T and AF280T flashes can definitely be used on the new K10D, > however it will only work in manual mode." > > Now you know. > > Cory > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
