Re: [NF] X# Bandol 2.2 released to the public

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 17/12/19 12:11, Vince Teachout wrote:

On 12/17/19 7:42 AM, Koen Piller wrote:

Hi,
Correct,however if the #X would open an own email service, one can 
decide

to accept that or not, now I am 'forced' to read those messages several
times.


As other's have pointed out, a quick filter solves that problem 
entirely.  And nobody is 'forcing' you to read anything.



Save me the time please.

!
Why should OTHERS have to change their stuff to save YOU time?



Cool
So now I may post about Argentine's politics in this forum... and in 
Spanish!
You may use a filter if you're not interested, and besides, why should I 
have to change my stuff to save the FOX list people time? I always held 
the view that the TOPIC of the list should be meaningless. Don't you 
think so?


(should I declare the irony or you people are smart enough to notice it?)



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Re: [NF] Migrating Skills From Foxpro to Xojo

[Ricardo Araoz]

Hi Paul, I think your problem is "love". You just don't love the 
language, so I'd say ditch it and find something you love, you'll save a 
lot of effort. Why don't you try Python, and once you've got the bare 
basics of the language read Prentice Hall's "Rapid GUI programming with 
Python and Qt" by Mark Summerfield.


As for hiding your code there are nowadays a couple of apps that 
generate an exe file from Python with no hassles.


So check it out and see if you love this language.



On 22/2/19 14:04, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
I hijacked the original thread with a reply changing the subject and 
adding an [NF] flag to the subject because a small comment Kevin made 
caused me chase a different rabbit for a little bit. I have reviewed 
Xojo on a couple of different occasions over the past few years and I 
have tried to work my way through the book that was written to teach 
people how to program it and I find myself drifting by the 3rd or 4th 
chapter every time. Not a fault of the author; just rather a fault of 
me wanting something a little more advanced. Anyway, I've run into a 
couple of hurdles with trying to learn Xojo and perhaps someone here 
has some suggestions to help me out. Try not to laugh at what may be 
very dumb questions! :) 1) I build a lot of similar but customized 
apps using a shared library of tools I've developed over the past 25 
years. Every app I build contains a LOT of forms, reports and programs 
shared by all my applications as well as a lot of forms, reports and 
programs which are copied from previous projects and then customized 
for the current client. While I have seen multiple Xojo advocates 
confirm a similar process is possible, but I cannot find clear 
explanations of how to make that happen. 2) Every Foxpro application I 
build starts with a .PRG which reads a configuration .INI file and 
then setups up the environment, displays a splash screen, checks my 
version numbers, calls a database update process if a version change 
is detected and if all is good, it displays the main screen for the 
user. Once the user chooses to exit my application, a shutdown process 
is initiated and everything is closed in an orderly way. That having 
been said, I have been unable to find source code to a simple, 
complete Xojo application or instruction book that can walk me through 
the start to finish logic and firing order of all the start-up and 
shut-down events and allow me to compare that to the process I'm so 
familiar with in Foxpro. 3) Are there any good white-papers or books 
by Foxpro programmers that can provide insights into translating my 
Foxpro knowledge and skill directly into Xojo. I use Foxpro on a daily 
basis for my business because I cannot find a language that satisfies 
my clients' needs the way Foxpro does. I would love to be able to say 
I have a backup language like Xojo, but I get only so far before I 
give up and go back to what I know and love. So let's assume Kevin is 
correct when he states Xojo is " a viable language for VFP developers" 
because I do not want to go down the rabbit hole of considering all 
the other alternatives for this sake of this discussion and share with 
me any tips that can help me understand Xojo on a higher level beyond 
just creating a simple form. I want to understand Xojo at a Complete 
Deliverable Application level and talk about mimicking the features I 
depend upon in Foxpro to share a library of tools, forms and code 
across hundreds of similar custom applications. Paul H. Tarver 
-Original Message- From: ProfoxTech 
[mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kevin J Cully Sent: 
Friday, February 22, 2019 8:11 AM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: 
RE: false news Well, a lot of that article is correct, even though 
I don't want it to be. VFP as a *language* is as secure as the 
programmer programmed it to be. VFP as a *database* isn't secure 
itself. You can encrypt fields. You can encrypt the directory that the 
data is stored in. But DBF data isn't secure. You wouldn't store 
social security numbers or credit card numbers in Excel spreadsheets, 
right? I've haven't recommended DBFs for storage for over a decade 
now. There are better storage mechanisms such as Postgres, MariaDB, 
and even SQLite which can be set up as an encrypted database. VFP as a 
language is still valid, although it will never be able to create 
64bit applications but that is a different subject. [Insert Xojo plug 
here as a viable language for VFP developers.] I had a potential 
client where they based their primary keys based on employee Social 
Security Numbers. They didn't like it when I told them that they'd 
need a complete rewrite. Notice this would have been the case no 
matter what language/technology they were using. It was just piss poor 
design. It appears from the article, that when the vendor was notified 
of the situation, that they were able to quickly address it although 
the article didn't say what that solution 

Re: VFP in Windows on a Mac

[Ricardo Araoz]

Different colours for different people. I don't want to worry about the 
OS, only about the work I do IN the OS, I don't want to be bothered with 
new versions every other month. So I use Ubuntu Long Term distro. It is 
supported for a 5 year period, then I give it an extra 6 months for bugs 
to be discovered and upgrade to the next LT version.
With my home in an individual partition and doing a brand new install 
every 5 years I've never had a problem (that means you loose 4 to 6 
hours every 5 years to change version).


On 24/06/18 15:24, j...@johnweller.co.uk wrote:

Never having been taught Unix I find Linux confusing.  There are so many
distros, all different and all changing faster than the books can keep up
with them whereas the Mac is stable, well relatively.

John

John Weller
01380 723235
07976393631

-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech  On Behalf Of Jan Bucek
Sent: 23 June 2018 20:44
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: VFP in Windows on a Mac

Dne 22.6.2018 v 23:02 j...@johnweller.co.uk napsal(a):

I have had a nightmare installing the latest  Win 10 update.  The only
thing stopping me from throwing the PC out of the window and going out
and buying a Mac was the fact that I have a number of apps still in
use written in VFP which I need to maintain.  I was told recently that
I could run Windows on a Mac - has anyone any experience of running VFP

under Windows on a Mac?

Why Mac? I use Linux and WinXP in VirtualBox without any troubles for years.





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Re: Windows 10 April 2018 Update & ADS Server

[Ricardo Araoz]

"hold off the regular monthly updates for up to 30 days", god! I had 
forgotten what Wd$ was all about. Thanks for the reminder.



On 09/05/18 17:03, Ted Roche wrote:

One of my clients had to recreate all their RDP settings. Whether that
was related to this change, or just because the target machine changed
its DNS name and that didn't show until the monthly reboot, well, we
may never know.

The post I made earlier about blocking the "April Update" also had
some suggestions on settings you could use to hold off the regular
monthly updates for up to 30 days, to let someone else beta-test them
:) I set that up here on the couple of machines running Pro versions
of Windows. Not that I paid for them ;)


On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 3:41 PM, Fred Taylor  wrote:

Thanks Paul.  Now maybe I'll have to talk someone through how to change it,
since it's a remote site.


Fred

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 12:12 PM, Paul Hill  wrote:


On 9 May 2018 at 20:00, Fred Taylor  wrote:

We don't use Advantage, but we had a problem with a machine trying to use
remote desktop after the latest update for W10.  Had to uninstall it.  It
kept saying something about security corruption.

The old 'Allow remote connections to this computer' is enabled in
system settings and firewall is OK.
There is now a new setting 'Enable Remote Desktop On/Off' in Settings
-> Remote Desktop.

Thanks Microsoft.  I installed this update remotely and now I'm locked out.

--
Paul


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Re: [NF] How to block the Windows 10 April 2018 Update, version 1803, from installing

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 04/05/18 13:26, Ted Roche wrote:

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Alan Bourke  wrote:

On Fri, 4 May 2018, at 3:57 PM, AndyHC wrote:

Doesn't the "I'm on a metered connection" thing work?

It appears that it does.

However this forced update thing is only a problem for the Home version. The 
Pro, Enterprise and Education versions have a supported method of turning this 
behaviour off via a menu option or group policy, and anyone using Win 10 in a 
business or education context should be using one of those versions.


Yes. The "I'm on a metered connection" works for Home, too. I'm doing
family tech support on this one. However, I tried the "put on hold"
option for the 1803 update, and then switched the Ethernet to
unmetered and it _still_ installed the brand-new, unpatched, buggy
1803 "Feature Update" at 1.65 gigabytes. Microsoft's new motto of
"We're going to do what we think is good for you whether you like it
or not" is a bit presumptuous. Next time, I'm installing "Pro" on all
the machines I have to support.



So, all they have to do for you to open your wallet and pay for more 
than you need is to bugger you on the Home edition?


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Re: Unexpected results from a group by clause

[Ricardo Araoz]

Yup, it's like a "where" but it acts kind of after the grouping so you 
can use aggregate functions to limit the output.



On 30/03/18 11:32, Stephen Russell wrote:

The having clause allows the query to limit the output of the data set, it
doesn't refocus on the raw data for additional processing.

select
PO.[BuyFromBuinessPartner], PO.[PurchaseOrder], PO.[Division], POL.[Item],
POL.[Price]   -- all items needed in group by
, sum( POL.[OrderedQuantity]) totalQuant  -- reason for the group by
  from [dbo].[FactPurchaseOrders] PO
left join [dbo].[FactPurchaseOrderLines] POL
on PO.[PurchaseOrder] = POL.[PurchaseOrder]
and PO.[Division]= POL.[Division]
where PO.Division ='RCT'
and PO.OrderDate between '1-1-2018' and '4-1-2018'
group by PO.[BuyFromBuinessPartner], PO.[PurchaseOrder],
PO.[Division],POL.[Item], POL.[Price]

Having sum( POL.[OrderedQuantity]) > 10 -- Just show me anything
over 10 in quantity

HTH



On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 6:34 AM, Richard Kaye  wrote:


You can also add COUNT(*) to your query to see how many rows are
duplicated and use a HAVING to see just the duplicated rows.

--

rk

-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech  On Behalf Of
mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 12:37 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: Unexpected results from a group by clause

On 2018-03-29 23:00, Joe Yoder wrote:

I have an SQL select statement that includes a group by clause to order
the
output for reporting.  It gets its data from a table that potentially
includes legitimate duplicate records.

   SELECT account, date, memo, paid_amoun;
 FROM QB;
 GROUP BY account, date, memo, paid_amoun;
 INTO CURSOR det

I happened to discover that the output of the select statement does not
include duplicate records.  Is this expected behavior? If so , how
should
one group data with duplicate records?

Thanks in advance,

Joe


Hi Joe,

Replace the GROUP BY with the ORDER BY clause and it won't drop any
records.

hth,
--Mike



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Re: [NF] Reporting in Python (Django)

[Ricardo Araoz]

Don't use Django.


On 13/03/18 13:58, Thierry Nivelet wrote:

Great discussion, thanks for your insights!

So you use Django without doing Web App?
"/Django makes it easier to build better Web apps more quickly and 
with less code./"


Thierry Nivelet
FoxInCloud
Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud
http://foxincloud.com/

Le 13/03/2018 à 17:33, Ricardo Araoz a écrit :

Love Python. Don't do browser apps.


On 13/03/18 13:23, Thierry Nivelet wrote:

Ricardo,

Whatever the language you choose, you'll meet 2 serious obstacles 
down the road to a Web Application:


1. **Write responsive HTML/CSS/JS**: if you want to somehow clone 
the layout of the forms of your VFP desktop application, and render 
it as responsive HTML using - eg. - the Bootstrap framework, it'll 
take you up to 10 levels of nested divs to get a proper layout; no 
GUI editor at the rescue for that: you'll have to hard code using a 
text editor, and choose appropriate class and IDs without getting 
messed up; and it soon becomes very complex and difficult to handle, 
especially because CSS computes the layout for you based on the 
structure and rules you define. If you want a responsive layout, you 
can no longer set .left, .width, etc., you must let the browser 
compute positions and dimensions. Generating HTML is the area where 
your Python code will mostly be used and, strangely, this is only 
the emerged part of the iceberg as point 2. below explains.


2. **Maintain user state**: in your VFP code, each time you write 
'thisForm…' or 'this…' or 'alias.field', or read a public variable, 
you query (without knowing or realizing it) the user state, as it 
results from the succession of user actions applied to some initial 
state. In VFP, as a single instance of the application serves a 
single user, everything can persist in memory: easy and painless. On 
the Web conversely, as the same application can serve any user in 
any sequence, the user state can exist only if you somehow maintain 
it (save and restore). No framework, whether it's Python-based or 
C#-based, will ever do that for you. Then you have roughly 2 options 
to maintain the user state: **on the client or on the server**.


Maintaining the user state on the **client** requires to:

- write a lot of JavaScript, probably with some client-side 
framework such as jQuery, Angular or Ember (be aware that these 
frameworks are pretty conceptual and difficult to master properly; 
they at least require that you are very proficient in HTML/CSS/JS as 
they add several layers above these technologies). Whatever your 
choice, you write no Python here, just HTML, CSS and JS.


- use client side storage to create on the client something similar 
to a view that you'll submit to the server once user decides to 
save. This requires a good knowledge of web storage API, another 
JavaScript-centric technology


- expose all your business and presentation layer code to the 
outside world; just like you would expose all the VFP code you have 
in *.scx and *.vcx, except queries. You can only obfuscate this code 
(eg. minify renames variables in alpha sequence such as "a", "b", 
"c", "d", etc.), concealing it is impossible as the browser must 
read it.


This is the solution that most developers use nowadays; exchange 
with the server are merely data conveyed in the JSON format.


Maintaining the user state on the **server** requires to:

- write double code: client side code altering the user interface is 
almost the same, except it must query the user state from the server 
to take proper action; the amount of code is much higher, and client 
and server must somehow understand each other, this generally 
requires either being a 'full stack developer' or defining tight 
rules (eg. naming) between client and server.


- store user state on a server disk so that any web server can 
retrieve the state for any user at any time (forget about assigning 
server instances to specific users like in the desktop world, it 
just does not work for high user counts; a typical web app serves 
200 users and this figure can go up to several thousands)


- choose or define a format to store user state: could be a simple 
JSON string that the client JavaScript provides after each action 
(then you need to choose a scalable structure), or a table that you 
can easily query to, eg., find differences between states before / 
after user action.


FoxInCloud helps you dramatically in these 2 critical areas:

- **generate responsive HTML/CSS/JS code** from your VFP forms: 
FoxInCloud understand how controls are aligned and grouped on the 
page and builds the corresponding groupings (row, column, *-group) 
in the Bootstrap CSS system


- **automatically maintains user state**: because FoxInCloud runs 
your VFP forms on the server and these forms are object oriented, 
FoxInCloud is able to detect what the user actions change on the 
form and save these changes in a st

Re: [NF] Reporting in Python (Django)

[Ricardo Araoz]

le', 'enabled') that the user action can affect (custom 
properties being saved by default); FoxInCloud compares the state 
before and after user action to identify the visual changes that the 
browser must apply: you have strictly nothing to code to make this 
happen.


As I already often wrote, FoxInCloud can be regarded either as a 
final, or just an intermediary step to a Web Application; you can:
- take advantage of the generated HTML/CSS/JS to save months of 
writing responsive HTML
- judge whether the user state maintenance mechanism suits you and 
eventually recode a similar mechanism in Python (or other)
- mitigate between a server-side and client-side user state 
maintenance to save response time while protecting the code that you 
consider critical.


I would be delighted if VFP developers would consider FoxInCloud as a 
community-inspired effort, and would like to cooperate towards a 
future suitable migration path to the Web, rather than like a "take or 
leave" product with the VFP stigmata.


FoxInCloud does incorporate thorough software engineering thinking 
about running a Web Application while taking advantage of a Desktop 
Application background, going far beyond and above the mere language 
level which, in any case, does not and will never provide a complete 
solution to building a Web Application.


Thierry Nivelet
FoxInCloud
Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud
http://foxincloud.com/

Le 12/03/2018 à 23:53, Ricardo Araoz a écrit :
Thanks Thierry, but I've gone over to Python, love the language and 
libraries, gives me pleasure to write it. As for the 10x times, it 
might be true if you are left to your own devices. But thankfully it 
has loads of beautiful and useful libraries which allow me to keep 
writing a language I've come to love.


Cheers



On 12/03/18 15:04, Thierry Nivelet wrote:

Ricardo,

Unless learning Python is for you so important and compelling that 
you accept to spend 10x more time for the same result, did you look 
at FoxInCloud?


Thierry Nivelet
http://foxincloud.com/
Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud




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Re: [NF] Reporting in Python (Django)

[Ricardo Araoz]

Thanks Thierry, but I've gone over to Python, love the language and 
libraries, gives me pleasure to write it. As for the 10x times, it might 
be true if you are left to your own devices. But thankfully it has loads 
of beautiful and useful libraries which allow me to keep writing a 
language I've come to love.


Cheers



On 12/03/18 15:04, Thierry Nivelet wrote:

Ricardo,

Unless learning Python is for you so important and compelling that you accept 
to spend 10x more time for the same result, did you look at FoxInCloud?

Thierry Nivelet
http://foxincloud.com/
Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud


Le 12 mars 2018 à 18:58, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com> a écrit :

Ed, never worked with templating systems, but reading the examples I have a few 
doubts regarding their capabilities, maybe you know the answer to them?
In the example they define  items, but will the template generate a new 
title on top of every page?
Can you define page sizes, page footers, group headers and footers, group 
totals, running totals?




On 07/03/18 11:47, Ajit Abraham wrote:
Thanks Ed. I had seen that before - but as there was no GUI, I ignored it.
I need the GUI for absolute positioning of objects - similar to 
VFP/Crystal/Jasper report builders.

Will have another look at it.



While I don’t do much reporting in Python these days, I would recommend a 
simple templating system like Jinja or Mako to create the HTML output, and an 
HTML-PDF converter to create the output. I did a quick google around and found 
this article: http://pbpython.com/pdf-reports.html . It looks pretty 
straightforward.

-- Ed Leafe



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Re: [NF] Reporting in Python (Django)

[Ricardo Araoz]

Thanks Ed, you saved me a few hours of reading.



On 12/03/18 15:13, Ed Leafe wrote:

On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ed, never worked with templating systems, but reading the examples I have a few 
doubts regarding their capabilities, maybe you know the answer to them?
In the example they define  items, but will the template generate a new 
title on top of every page?

These are HTML generators, so there is just one  per document. Not sure 
how you would translate that to hard copy page breaks.


Can you define page sizes, page footers, group headers and footers, group 
totals, running totals?

Sure, the templates support embedded code, so you would be able to do that, but 
it isn't baked-in as in VFP or Crystal. Remember, they are HTML templates, not 
reporting templates.


-- Ed Leafe







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Re: [NF] Reporting in Python (Django)

[Ricardo Araoz]

Ed, never worked with templating systems, but reading the examples I 
have a few doubts regarding their capabilities, maybe you know the 
answer to them?
In the example they define  items, but will the template generate 
a new title on top of every page?
Can you define page sizes, page footers, group headers and footers, 
group totals, running totals?




On 07/03/18 11:47, Ajit Abraham wrote:
Thanks Ed. I had seen that before - but as there was no GUI, I ignored 
it.
I need the GUI for absolute positioning of objects - similar to 
VFP/Crystal/Jasper report builders.


Will have another look at it.


While I don’t do much reporting in Python these days, I would 
recommend a simple templating system like Jinja or Mako to create the 
HTML output, and an HTML-PDF converter to create the output. I did a 
quick google around and found this article: 
http://pbpython.com/pdf-reports.html . It looks pretty straightforward.


-- Ed Leafe




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Re: [NF] Reporting in Python (Django)

[Ricardo Araoz]

I've checked it out, I can see your point, it's a beautiful tool, but 
too many dependencies and a long product chain.
For simple database reports (that would be 98% of the time) I'll work 
with xlsxwriter and PollyReports which is close to the fox style but 
stays within python and keeps the design of your report and it's 
parameters within the language and will be easily portable.
Regarding the remaining 2% if I can't dodge the bullet I'll probably end 
up doing what you suggest (thanks for the tips Ajit, hadn't heard about 
until you mentioned it)


Cheers


On 08/03/18 12:06, Ajit Abraham wrote:

Thanks Ricardo,

On 08/03/2018 01:39, Ricardo Araoz wrote:
You could also check "relatorio" and "pod" if you are willing to work 
with open office.


Gaetan's Appy Framework does exactly that. It works with odt documents.
For simple reporting, it is ok. But for complex reports(which is easy 
in VFP), I found that had to do too much of tinkering.

Also it needs Libreoffice to run in silent mode to generate the pdf.

check out PollyReports which is not a graphical tool but a python lib 



Simply put, I have been spoilt by VFP. Hence hunting for the GUI

Ok. Seems that I will settle in for JasperReport.
These are the steps:
1. Prepare the data in XML format (Thanks to yattag library)
Along with the table data, I can pass adhoc values like the report 
title etc
2. Design the report through the free JasperStudio (same like VFP 
report design tool)
3. Generate PDF through Jadson Ribeiro's pyreport which is a wrapper 
for JasperStarter command-line tool.
This generates the PDF without any reporting service running in the 
background.


Ajit





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Re: [NF] Reporting in Python (Django)

[Ricardo Araoz]

I googled a bit. The ideal thing would be something that generates RML 
(ReportLab Markup Language) and then use python's rml2pdf library, but I 
havent found any graphical RML generator. You could also check 
"relatorio" and "pod" if you are willing to work with open office.
For a tool which uses detail bands, and total, subtotal, and group bands 
as well as page headers and footers you could check out PollyReports 
which is not a graphical tool but a python lib which depends on 
ReportLab, but allows good control for database reports, as for accuracy 
it works with points (that would be 72 points to an inch), or you could 
use ReportLab.lib.units which allows you to work in inches, cm, mm and pica.

HTH


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Re: [NF] Meeting our Ed!

[Ricardo Araoz]

LOL, yes you do.


On 06/03/18 12:26, Dave Crozier wrote:

Well we do have Aguer

Dave Crozier
Software Development Manager
Flexipol Packaging Ltd.



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seller to the buyer for which payment is then due. Until such time as the property in the 
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and bailee and keep the goods separate from those of the buyer and third parties and 
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-Original Message-
From: ProFox <profox-boun...@leafe.com> On Behalf Of Ed Leafe
Sent: 06 March 2018 15:24
To: ProFox Mailing List <profox@leafe.com>
Subject: Re: [NF] Meeting our Ed!

On Mar 6, 2018, at 8:39 AM, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com> wrote:


Hey! That's not a City scarf, that's an Argie scarf. Got the right colors but 
the wrong team. ;-)

It could be both. :)


-- Ed Leafe







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Re: [NF] Meeting our Ed!

[Ricardo Araoz]

Hey! That's not a City scarf, that's an Argie scarf. Got the right 
colors but the wrong team. ;-)



On 06/03/18 02:24, Ed Leafe wrote:

On Mar 5, 2018, at 5:20 PM, Kurt at VR-FX  wrote:


What the Halibut? Where's a link to a pic of you and Ed hanging out??? Come on 
- you know you owe us at least that much!!!

To be fair, it was Linda who took the photos, and we were stuck in metal tubes all day 
today (Manchester -> Dublin -> Washington, DC -> San Antonio). But now I'm back 
home, and before collapsing from exhaustion, I put together a quick album: 
https://photos.app.goo.gl/u9dQUxwBBpCQwuR32

That said, I can't thank Dave enough for being a wonderful host. Linda and I 
had planned a nice, leisurely weekend in Manchester after my conference in 
Dublin, but Mother Nature had other ideas. Dublin had the worst weather in 
decades while we were there 
(https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/people-urged-to-stay-indoors-as-blizzard-set-to-threaten-life-and-limb-1.3411319),
 and the airport was shut down for two days, canceling our original flights. We 
ended up flying into Manchester Sunday afternoon, where Dave was waiting for 
us. He drove us to the stadium, where we had a great time watching City win, 
even though we were stuck in the Chelsea section. He the took us to our hotel, 
but then it turned out that when we re-booked due to the storm, we had been 
moved to a different hotel much further away. No worries, as Dave the chauffeur 
got us to our hotel, waited while we dropped off our things, and then drove us 
back to his charming town, where we were joined by his wife

,

  and had an excellent meal. He then drove us all the way back to our hotel. We 
had to fly out early the next morning, and I can honestly say that without 
Dave's help, none of that would have been possible. Oh, and don't even get me 
started about the problems getting the tickets!

Next time we are able to make it to Manchester, we owe him several pints!

-- Ed Leafe







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Re: New Term: Zombie Language

[Ricardo Araoz]

Does anyone remember PL/I?


On 20/02/18 13:00, mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote:

On 2018-02-19 07:15, Alan Bourke wrote:

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018, at 11:49 AM, Ted Roche wrote:
On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:02 AM, Laurie Alvey  
wrote:

> I guess FORTRAN & PASCAL would qualify.
>

The only differentiation I might make is whether there are
implementations still out in the world. Pascal and Fortran have more
or less complete and free compilers available .


In the case of Pascal there's also Delphi and Oxygene in the
commercial products world. Pascal is far from a zombie language.



Pascal was one of my first true programming language loves. Beautiful 
language from my recollection of 30 years ago.



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Re: Foxpro/Programming Training Question

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 26/01/18 13:20, Dave Crozier wrote:

It is nice to say that VFP is still the only data centric language out there 
with an in-built datastore, which limited though it is (the 2Gb limit) allows 
the majority if not all stand alone desktop apps to be easily developed, tested 
and installed in both single and multi user modes.

Yes, I know Python is excellent as well as all the other "flavour of the day" 
languageslike Ruby, Java etc.  but they all require extensions here there and everywhere 
to function as a true development environment and everyone has their own favourite. There 
isn't a one product fits all solution.

Rightly or wrongly, there is only one set of development tools in VFP and you 
can get to master them very quickly - then you can use your skills on other 
more advanced/challenging languages.

I rest my case your honour!



I don't see it that way, what's wrong with having a modular language? So 
long as the modules integrate seamlessly into the language there is no 
real difference between an all-in-one and a modular language. If the 
integration of the modules is troublesome then you've got a big point.


In Python's case integration is fairly easy, what's difficult is 
deciding which of the many available modules for each task will you use, 
but hey, having a choice is good too. As for self contained datastore 
you may use sqlite module.
Only thing I miss from FP is to be able to generate a self contained 
executable easily and without hassle (with just one command). The other 
thing that may trip you is the constant updating of the language and the 
different modules you use in a project, and that sometimes they are not 
in sync bringing up some hassle, but you may always choose not to update 
the language and modules and do that at your own pace.



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Re: NF - MYSQL Server Free Edition

[Ricardo Araoz]

What about PostgreSQL?

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/oracles-biggest-database-foe-could-it-be-postgres/

https://www.slant.co/versus/4218/4221/~postgres_vs_oracle-database



On 16/12/17 01:55, mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote:

On 2017-12-15 15:43, Mike wrote:

Ted, I would (almost) give up my keyboard for the chance to get them
to use MariaDB or anything other than the Evil Empire's SQL Server.

Unfortunately, I'm not driving the bus on this one and they're
convinced that SqlServer and ultimately Azure is the only REAL game in
town.



M$ marketing wins again!  

Nothing against "the Evil Empire" but I just don't like using SQL 
Server as much as I do VFP, MySQL/MariaDB, Oracle.



[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: e: [NF] PyQT for desktop applications

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 08/06/17 22:49, Stephen Russell wrote:

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com> wrote:


Nice form!
Couple of questions. Can you program hot keys so as to not use the mouse
to save the order for example?
And I'd like to know the language you use to program this app. Or should I
say languages? And what about security, do you have to take care of it or
does the language/framework handle it?





100% java there and I do not think that you understand what a save is.  In
reality, you are progressing an order through all the phases of OE,
Production, Warehousing, Shipping.  There are many status changes that take
place with approvals and releases.

Each user can customize their version of every screen. What columns to
display and in what order in the grid as well as the sort.  All columns
have a search header on them to find what you need real quick.  It is a
pretty good ERP.



I like the interface, looks really good and fast.
Can you program hot keys?
What about security?

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Re: e: [NF] PyQT for desktop applications

[Ricardo Araoz]

Nice form!
Couple of questions. Can you program hot keys so as to not use the mouse 
to save the order for example?
And I'd like to know the language you use to program this app. Or should 
I say languages? And what about security, do you have to take care of it 
or does the language/framework handle it?




On 08/06/17 17:15, Stephen Russell wrote:

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 3:09 PM, Richard Kaye  wrote:


Salesforce? I cringe every time I have to use it. There's nothing
particularly intuitive about it, imho, at least out of the box.



This is the system I use, LN, and how to place a sales order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ros6m2BBI84

Only watch this if you can SPEED it up to 1.5x in speed.






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Re: [OT] - Could hear a pin drop

[Ricardo Araoz]

Besides which, why on earth would I want to go live in your kind of 
society? I'm perfectly happy in my country, love it here.
I might visit you though, my daughter tells me it's a beautiful country, 
but not right now.


Oh, and Mikey dear or should I call you "the Mikey"? (sorry about my 
poor English, is that the way an educated person should address white 
trash?), you've forgotten your geography lessons (did you ever attend 
school?), the rest of the world is not only Canada and Mexico. There are 
many other countries which have no common frontiers with you, so your 
wall is meaningless to me.



On 11/11/16 05:28, Geoff wrote:

He wont be building his $50B wall with its $10B/yr running costs. Unless
there are 5000 troops there. But it wont even work. Its just another of his
incredibly dumb ideas. I particularly liked his alternative to Obamacare
which was "something really, really good"

:)

-Original Message-
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan
Sent: Friday, 11 November 2016 6:15 PM
To: ProFox Email List <profox@leafe.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] - Could hear a pin drop

You better sneak into the country now before he builds the wall



- Original Message -
From: Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com>
To: ProFox Email List <profox@leafe.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] - Could hear a pin drop

Hey Michael, hello! Look, I'm not a US citizen. I'm from that legendary land
beyond your frontier. You know, the rest of the world? So for me it's not
either or, I couldn't care less for Hillary. You know, in legendary land
politics is not one dimensional, we don't define ourselves that way (well,
you know, educated people), we usually don't fall for simplistic answers, we
think and debate.

But please, clean your foaming lips, let's not fight. You don't have to
agree with my statement, just remember it and read it again in four
years that is, if you still have computers or, maybe the
corporations have the power, then when you read it try to remember what
Trump looked like before being elected.

Actually, knowing a bit about your recent history, and considering the vice
president is well accepted by the GOP leadership, if I were Trump I'd step
very carefully and never ride an open car through the streets of Dallas.


On 10/11/16 16:23, Michael Oke, II wrote:

But of course it wasn't demeaning and and contained a simple, yet
substantial, statement that you were unable to clarify so you chose to
attack me.  Congrats Killary.



-
Michael Oke, II
oke...@gmail.com
661-349-6221
-----

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 4:54 AM, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com> wrote:


LOL
Your answer reminded me of how the Donald would answer any serious
statement in the presidential debates.  A lot of words, demeaning,
and no real substance underneath all that.



On 09/11/16 22:33, Michael Oke, II wrote:


Your logic is so flawed that I'm not even sure what you are trying to

say.


-
Michael Oke, II
oke...@gmail.com
661-349-6221
---------

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com>

wrote:

Now we will be able to ascertain some things. If he manages to end
his

four years without getting into a really stupid war, and without
pressing the atomic button, and without making a fool of his
country, and without bankrupting USA, then we will know that the
president is just a figurehead and that it's the corporations that
really rule the USA.
OTOH well, it's been a good life so far, only comfort is that
those responsible will go down first.



On 09/11/16 14:26, Stephen Russell wrote:

Enough of the people who were sick and tired of the same old shit
from

our
leaders stood up and said UP YOURS.

Now can he lead a country better than he campaigned?  Has the
secret service terminated his twitter account yet?

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Jean Laeremans <
laeremans.jeanma...@gmail.com> wrote:

The fools have taken over the asylum


On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Adam Buckland <
adam.buckl...@eurohill.com>
wrote:

Britain : Brexit was the stupidest, most self-destructive act a
country


could ever undertake.

USA : Hold my drink


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [OT] - Could hear a pin drop

[Ricardo Araoz]

Hey Michael, hello! Look, I'm not a US citizen. I'm from that legendary 
land beyond your frontier. You know, the rest of the world? So for me 
it's not either or, I couldn't care less for Hillary. You know, in 
legendary land politics is not one dimensional, we don't define 
ourselves that way (well, you know, educated people), we usually don't 
fall for simplistic answers, we think and debate.


But please, clean your foaming lips, let's not fight. You don't have to 
agree with my statement, just remember it and read it again in four 
years that is, if you still have computers or, maybe the 
corporations have the power, then when you read it try to remember what 
Trump looked like before being elected.


Actually, knowing a bit about your recent history, and considering the 
vice president is well accepted by the GOP leadership, if I were Trump 
I'd step very carefully and never ride an open car through the streets 
of Dallas.



On 10/11/16 16:23, Michael Oke, II wrote:

But of course it wasn't demeaning and and contained a simple, yet
substantial, statement that you were unable to clarify so you chose to
attack me.  Congrats Killary.



-
Michael Oke, II
oke...@gmail.com
661-349-6221
-

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 4:54 AM, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com> wrote:


LOL
Your answer reminded me of how the Donald would answer any serious
statement in the presidential debates.  A lot of words, demeaning, and no
real substance underneath all that.



On 09/11/16 22:33, Michael Oke, II wrote:


Your logic is so flawed that I'm not even sure what you are trying to say.


-
Michael Oke, II
oke...@gmail.com
661-349-6221
-

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Now we will be able to ascertain some things. If he manages to end his

four years without getting into a really stupid war, and without pressing
the atomic button, and without making a fool of his country, and without
bankrupting USA, then we will know that the president is just a
figurehead
and that it's the corporations that really rule the USA.
OTOH well, it's been a good life so far, only comfort is that those
responsible will go down first.



On 09/11/16 14:26, Stephen Russell wrote:

Enough of the people who were sick and tired of the same old shit from

our
leaders stood up and said UP YOURS.

Now can he lead a country better than he campaigned?  Has the secret
service terminated his twitter account yet?

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Jean Laeremans <
laeremans.jeanma...@gmail.com> wrote:

The fools have taken over the asylum


On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Adam Buckland <
adam.buckl...@eurohill.com>
wrote:

Britain : Brexit was the stupidest, most self-destructive act a country


could ever undertake.

USA : Hold my drink


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [OT] - Could hear a pin drop

[Ricardo Araoz]

LOL
Your answer reminded me of how the Donald would answer any serious 
statement in the presidential debates.  A lot of words, demeaning, and 
no real substance underneath all that.



On 09/11/16 22:33, Michael Oke, II wrote:

Your logic is so flawed that I'm not even sure what you are trying to say.


-
Michael Oke, II
oke...@gmail.com
661-349-6221
-

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com> wrote:


Now we will be able to ascertain some things. If he manages to end his
four years without getting into a really stupid war, and without pressing
the atomic button, and without making a fool of his country, and without
bankrupting USA, then we will know that the president is just a figurehead
and that it's the corporations that really rule the USA.
OTOH well, it's been a good life so far, only comfort is that those
responsible will go down first.



On 09/11/16 14:26, Stephen Russell wrote:


Enough of the people who were sick and tired of the same old shit from our
leaders stood up and said UP YOURS.

Now can he lead a country better than he campaigned?  Has the secret
service terminated his twitter account yet?

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Jean Laeremans <
laeremans.jeanma...@gmail.com> wrote:

The fools have taken over the asylum

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Adam Buckland <
adam.buckl...@eurohill.com>
wrote:

Britain : Brexit was the stupidest, most self-destructive act a country

could ever undertake.

USA : Hold my drink


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [OT] - Could hear a pin drop

[Ricardo Araoz]

Now we will be able to ascertain some things. If he manages to end his 
four years without getting into a really stupid war, and without 
pressing the atomic button, and without making a fool of his country, 
and without bankrupting USA, then we will know that the president is 
just a figurehead and that it's the corporations that really rule the USA.
OTOH well, it's been a good life so far, only comfort is that those 
responsible will go down first.




On 09/11/16 14:26, Stephen Russell wrote:

Enough of the people who were sick and tired of the same old shit from our
leaders stood up and said UP YOURS.

Now can he lead a country better than he campaigned?  Has the secret
service terminated his twitter account yet?

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Jean Laeremans <
laeremans.jeanma...@gmail.com> wrote:


The fools have taken over the asylum

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Adam Buckland 
wrote:


Britain : Brexit was the stupidest, most self-destructive act a country
could ever undertake.

USA : Hold my drink

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [NF][RANT] I need to stop playing 20 questions...

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 26/02/16 14:20, Alan Bourke wrote:
Windows does a better job than almost anything bar certain big-iron 
mainframe operating systems in this respect. 


I never knew Linux was a "big-iron mainframe operating system". Wow! I'm 
big time now!



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Re: [NF] A Good Browser?

[Ricardo Araoz]

Chromium has an add-on, "The Great Suspender", that allows you to 
suspend tabs. That is, the tabs are there but the browser won't download 
the page until you tell it to. This speeds up the browser and you still 
get to have great number of tabs.



On 16/02/16 04:00, AndyHC wrote:
Looks like there is a like-for-like add-on (which you can install 
pre-v45 for continuity), also a tree format add-on (although I thought 
there was a long-term plan afoot for *all* browsers to stop 
add-ons/plug-ins?).
Also I have found that leaving multiple tabs open leads to PC 
performance degradation suggestive of a slow memory leak.


https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/*tab*-*groups*-removal

On 16/02/2016 00:49, Gene Wirchenko wrote:

Dear Vixens and Reynards:

 I used to use the latest version of Firefox.  With version 29.0, 
Mozilla screwed up the tabs horribly.  I upgraded back to 28.0 and 
have been running that version since.  Recently, I have started 
working for a company with a WordPress site.  I have had trouble with 
the CSS.  Thinking that it might be a browser issue, I decided to try 
a later version of Firefox, that being 44.0.2. The CSS problem was 
still there so I will probably have to look elsewhere for the cause 
of the problem (unless the problem is common to both Firefox versions).


 HOWEVER, the tabs are as bad as ever, and apparently, tab groups 
are about to be removed in version 45.  I use tab groups heavily.  
(STOMP, STOMP, STOMP!)


 So, my question is: What browser do you recommend and why?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko



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Re: [NF] Linux Ransomware now out

[Ricardo Araoz]

Oh, but there are lots of businesses running their software in linux. 
About needing to do "actual business", unless you are an IT company (and 
even then) your "actual business" is not done over a computer.
If you need to communicate, that'll be through the internet and that 
usually means you can use any OS.

There is design and payroll soft out there for linux, as well as games.
Maybe you are stuck in the 90's?

Of course there are specific niches that demand you to use wdws, but 
diminishing every year. For everyday use I find there's nothing I can't 
do in linux, that includes programming.


But it is not a competition, if you are perfectly happy with wdws please 
by all means stay there.
Those of us who have migrated will really enjoy hearing about your 
chores every time a new version comes out, it makes us feel fortunate 
and relieved.




On 20/11/15 12:24, Alan Bourke wrote:

On Fri, 20 Nov 2015, at 02:43 PM, Ricardo Araoz wrote:

Look Ted, those of us who've used Linux in anger know how good it is.
Those who haven't... well, they can keep buying Wds versions (every time
the company feels they need some extra money) and feeling all warm and
fuzzy and knowledgeable every time the find a work around some shitty
bug or some hidden stuff and are able to keep having things they already
had in the previous version, or paying out even more money for other
company's solutions to the mess.

Or they need to run the software that businesses need to do actual
business, design things, interoperate, pay people, or maybe play some
games when they go home.





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Re: [NF] Linux Ransomware now out

[Ricardo Araoz]

Look Ted, those of us who've used Linux in anger know how good it is.
Those who haven't... well, they can keep buying Wds versions (every time 
the company feels they need some extra money) and feeling all warm and 
fuzzy and knowledgeable every time the find a work around some shitty 
bug or some hidden stuff and are able to keep having things they already 
had in the previous version, or paying out even more money for other 
company's solutions to the mess.


Different strokes for different folks, no need to get excited about it. 
After all, it's their mess, and their money they are throwing down.



On 20/11/15 09:16, Ted Roche wrote:

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

I found it "interesting" that SEVEN of the TOP 25 lists of "Vulnerable
Products" are called "Windows" yet they roll all of the hundreds of
Linux builds under "Linux Kernel" No doubt many of the Windows flaws
are duplicate or cross-versions (since they are nearly all the same
product based on the same code.)

One of those is wrong, isn't it?

Linux is good about being OPEN about their issues and the fixes,
unlike Windows that ships a dozen updates every month whose
description says "This update addresses a problem in Windows." Well,
duh.

So what did you find "interesting" in the link?


On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:51 PM, Mike McCann  wrote:

Found this interesting, re: Linux.

https://www.cvedetails.com/top-50-products.php



-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 3:51 PM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Linux Ransomware now out

On 11/17/2015 8:13 PM, mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote:

I thought Linux was immune to all this crap?  You don't even need an
A/V software on Linux, right?

lol

Nope I don't think anyone said "immune" - just much harder to deploy.

You can bet your bottom dollar that companies like MS, and Apple are
looking for any way to discredit/attack Linux. In fact, this thing
smacks of Microsoft-ish "design": that is the software has a design flaw
so big it's practically useless. :)

-Charlie


On 2015-11-10 09:34, Stephen Russell wrote:

http://betanews.com/2015/11/09/linux-users-targeted-by-new-linux-encoder-1-e
ncryption-ransomware/



--
Stephen Russell
Sr. Analyst
Ring Container Technology
Oakland TN

901.246-0159 cell


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Re: [OT] Rugby World Cup

[Ricardo Araoz]

Not really popular. In my youth only played among british schools and a 
couple of clubs, now it has more popularity but not that much. We are 
football country.


On 21/10/15 18:44, Paul Hill wrote:

On 21 October 2015 at 00:04, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Should I make any comments on the subject?

I've still got £2 on Argentina to win in the office sweepstake!
Is rugby even popular in Argentina?

Gotta wonder about Georgia also...




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Re: [OT] Rugby World Cup

[Ricardo Araoz]

Should I make any comments on the subject?

:P


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Re: [OT] Rugby World Cup

[Ricardo Araoz]

LOL, we were close. We'll do better next time.
But I was referring to Argentina vs. Ireland game.


On 20/10/15 20:22, Sytze de Boer wrote:

No comments please. I'm a Kiwi



On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Ricardo Araoz <ricar...@gmail.com> wrote:


Should I make any comments on the subject?

:P



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Re: [NF] Evernote use cases and Q

[Ricardo Araoz]

Those of you into Linux might consider Basket http://basket.kde.org/ as 
an alternative for these tasks.



On 06/10/15 09:27, Malcolm Greene wrote:

RESENDING UNDER A MORE DESCRIPTIVE SUBJECT LINE.

Hi Mike,


Sounds like a good product per you and others here. I haven't tried it (yet). 
What do you use it to do, Malcolm?

I literally live in the Evernote application and use this application
for just about everything.

A quick (but not complete) list of how I use Evernote:

1. A personal diary notebook where I manage my time
2. Project specific notebooks for work I do for customers
3. A research notebook where I store notes on topics I research myself
4. An images notebook that I store interesting images/clipart in for
inspiration
5. A contact notebook where I track the people I've worked with
6. A coding notebook where I store coding snippets in a variety of
languages
7. Personal paperwork - scanned copies of important info -

For this list I think number 6 might be the most interesting for further
discussion. In the past I stored my code snippets in giant text files.
Searching these files became unwieldy because most of my searches became
linear searches. Being able to store each snippet in a note makes my
searches more efficient and doesn't clog up my drive. Using notes vs
files as containers for my snippets also allows me to store multiple
files in a snippet if a snippet is a group of files (code,
configuration, notes) and allows me to use colored text to distinguish
my own comments and concerns about specific code blocks in ways that
stand out visually more than abbreviations. If there's configuration
involved I can also include screenshots and everything is packaged in a
logical linear flow vs a random list of files in a zip archive.

I encourage others on this list to check out Evernote even if its for
nothing other than as a code snippet manager.

I'm happy to answer questions on this product or specific use cases.

Malcolm


[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [OT] Rugby World Cup

[Ricardo Araoz]

Saw the match. The Pumas held their ground, and were superior for the 
first 60 minutes. Our forwards did a good job. Pity about McCaw's trip, 
guess the pressure was too high (and he's known to live on the edge of 
the rules). Didn't like to see so many kicks from the Pumas, loosing 
control of the ball and loosing lots of ground every time until they 
recovered the ball, and they they kicked it again. You can't do that 
against the ABs, that is, unless you are prepared to loose as we did. We 
did beat Georgia to the ground though.
Anyway it seems we are between the best teams not only in football but 
in rugby too. ;c)



On 21/09/15 16:24, Paul Hill wrote:

The South African in my office is not impressed :-)

Argentina did well against New Zealand (the favorites by a long way).
Leading at half time was impressive.

No comments Ricardo?

On 21 September 2015 at 10:26, Dave Crozier  wrote:

Japan doesn't seem such a bad outside bet now though Paul!!

Dave

-Original Message-
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hill
Sent: 18 September 2015 22:16
To: ProFox Email List 
Subject: [OT] Rugby World Cup

Hi All,

Excited yet lol?

I drew Argentina and Samoa in our office sweepstake.
It could be worse.  My colleague drew USA and Japan!



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[OT] Mate -> Terere

[Ricardo Araoz]

There were some here who drank mate. In Argentina, Uruguay and Brasil 
the mate is done with hot water (just before boiling, between 75º and 
85ºC according to your preferences), in Paraguay it is done with cold 
water (and they usually add some citric juice) and is called terere 
(there is an accent in the last "e", I haven't used it in consideration 
to those who won't be able to see it properly).
Both mate and terere are drunk by yourself or shared in a circle of 
people who share the bombilla (sipping straw) as well as the conversation.
My daughter, who is travelling through Latin America in her motor bike, 
has posted an article about terere here :


http://www.hastaprontocatalina.com/remedios-para-el-terere-paraguay/

Sorry to say it's in Spanish so many of you'll have to use some 
translation engine to read it.




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Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

[Ricardo Araoz]

Will do next time I change version.

On 27/08/15 07:19, Paul Hill wrote:

On 26 August 2015 at 23:18, Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com wrote:

Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches to
Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online Amazon search
results will be displayed on your machine when you search for anything
within Unity.

Install Debian instead.  Don't support such blatent commercialisation
of a free OS.
Ubuntu is 90% Debian anyway.




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Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

[Ricardo Araoz]

Doh!
Didn't even look at the code.

On 27/08/15 11:00, Ted Roche wrote:

Sharp as a tack, Kurt. Exactly right.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Kurt Wendt kurt_we...@globetax.com wrote:

Actually - Ricardo - I think Ted meant that in a humorous way - although 
somewhat serious - that if we start talking NSA or Gov't in this message thread 
- that we are seriously moving into the realm of [OT] Territory. And, thus - 
he's suggesting that maybe those folks wanting to add to this thread in regards 
to NSA or Gov't should change the message subject to add [OT]. I could be wrong 
- but, me thinks not...

Right Ted??

:-)
-K-

-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo 
Araoz
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 8:52 PM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

Don't think that'll do. I have it from good source that for example ws 
encryption algorithms had to be sent as source code to nsa, to be returned as 
object code which would then be used in the OS. If key parts of the OS followed 
said path then there's nothing you can do about it.

On 26/08/15 20:12, Ted Roche wrote:

IF $MESSAGE$NSA OR $MESSAGE$government
SET $SUBJECT TO [OT]  + $SUBJECT
ENDIF


On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mike Copeland m...@ggisoft.com wrote:

Am I right that no one at MSoft (with the actual ability to 'know')
has ever denied that MSoft has installed back door access in Windows
for governmental use?

Not that there's anything wrong with that! he said to the people in
his computer.

Mike

Ricardo Araoz wrote:

Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches
to Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online
Amazon search results will be displayed on your machine when you
search for anything within Unity.
Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle
to disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though
with what MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other
gvt agencies (you have no toggle there to disable it).



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Re: [NF] Windows 10 Ultimate Windows Tweaker

[Ricardo Araoz]

Hahaha!
Isn't that sad? That you're happy to make a new OS to work as well as 
what you had three versions before.


On 27/08/15 11:02, Ted Roche wrote:

Looks good! Between that and Classic Shell, we can get Windows 10 to
work as well as Windows 7!

On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Alan Bourke alanpbou...@fastmail.fm wrote:

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/ultimate-windows-tweaker-4-windows-10

Freeware, brings many scattered settings together in one place, but
crucially has a Privacy tab where you can turn off all the mothership-
calling stuff.

--
   Alan Bourke
   alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm




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Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

[Ricardo Araoz]

Isn't Mint based on Ubuntu? Did they take away the spyware?

On 27/08/15 07:52, Ted Roche wrote:

Luckily, Linux's plan for world domination doesn't require desktops :)

Everyone else is abandoning the desktops for tablets, phones and mobile anyway.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 6:27 AM, Alan Bourke alanpbou...@fastmail.fm wrote:

  Don't support such blatent commercialisation
of a free OS.

Unfortunately it never will be the year of Linux on the desktop without
things like Ubuntu. Mint seems to be overtaking it a bit now though.

--
   Alan Bourke
   alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


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Re: [NF] Windows 10 Ultimate Windows Tweaker

[Ricardo Araoz]

Nice, what wds distro do you have? Or do you like the default shell?

On 27/08/15 12:23, Alan Bourke wrote:

Isn't that sad? That you're happy to make a new OS to work as well as
what you had three versions before.


See also the myriad forks of popular Linux distros (for example Kubuntu)
that exist because people don't like the current default shell.






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Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

[Ricardo Araoz]

Only in the last couple of versions and it can be disabled, which is not 
the case with other products.



On 26/08/15 16:18, Alan Bourke wrote:

Ubuntu does too, although I'm guessing you use a different distro.



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Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

[Ricardo Araoz]

Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches to 
Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online Amazon 
search results will be displayed on your machine when you search for 
anything within Unity.
Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle to 
disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though with 
what MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other gvt 
agencies (you have no toggle there to disable it).




On 26/08/15 18:43, Ted Roche wrote:

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Alan Bourke alanpbou...@fastmail.fm wrote:


Ubuntu does too, although I'm guessing you use a different distro.

Ubuntu does too, what?

Not an Ubu user, what are they up to?

Mostly I'm a Fedora, RedHat and CentOS user.

--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche  Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

[Ricardo Araoz]

Don't think that'll do. I have it from good source that for example ws 
encryption algorithms had to be sent as source code to nsa, to be 
returned as object code which would then be used in the OS. If key parts 
of the OS followed said path then there's nothing you can do about it.


On 26/08/15 20:12, Ted Roche wrote:

IF $MESSAGE$NSA OR $MESSAGE$government
   SET $SUBJECT TO [OT]  + $SUBJECT
ENDIF


On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mike Copeland m...@ggisoft.com wrote:

Am I right that no one at MSoft (with the actual ability to 'know') has ever
denied that MSoft has installed back door access in Windows for governmental
use?

Not that there's anything wrong with that! he said to the people in his
computer.

Mike

Ricardo Araoz wrote:

Ubuntu since version 12.01 does send the text of your local searches to
Canonical which in turn relays them to Amazon so that online Amazon search
results will be displayed on your machine when you search for anything
within Unity.
Anyway you go to system settings/privacy and there you have a toggle to
disable the relay of information. You cannot compare that though with what
MS does when it opens your machine to the NSA and other gvt agencies (you
have no toggle there to disable it).




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Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

[Ricardo Araoz]

Your OS should be like your wife, it shouldn't be allowed to testify 
against you :P


On 24/08/15 02:40, Jerry Wolper wrote:

Well, pirates get what they deserve. I'm far more concerned about the
false positives where MS decides VFP software named YourApp.EXE is
pirated and disable it.

Call me a hopeless romantic, but I prefer my operating system to, you know,
operate the system, not to worry about what software or data I might have
on the machine. I'd also strongly prefer that it not report back on me to
anybody.

-Jerry


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
   text/plain (text body -- kept)
   text/html
---


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Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

[Ricardo Araoz]

True, but at least I know google is selling my queries.
On the other hand the OS may sell..


On 14/08/15 16:29, Stephen Russell wrote:

On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Vince Teachout tea...@taconic.net wrote:


On 8/14/2015 3:09 PM, mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote:


On 2015-08-14 14:02, Ted Roche wrote:


snipped ... free to be browsed by police departments,
potential employers, insurance companies, and anyone willing to pay a
few dollars to look you up.



That seems very paranoid and I seriously doubt likely to happen.  Am I
being too naive?


In my opinion, yes.

--



Considering everything that is available about you today in is not an OS
that is doing it.  Google is the most passionate about selling your digital
soul.






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Re: [NF] Why Windows 10 Sucks..

[Ricardo Araoz]

Has anyone tried isolating 10 from the web for a couple of months (as in 
a VM)?
Would be nice to see if it complains. In a VM you could surf from within 
your host.


On 13/08/15 11:46, Fernando D. Bozzo wrote:

The solution is very simple : just use Linux as main OS and use Win10 only
in VirtualBox, as I do. This way you can use Windows only for some work
necessities and Linux for the rest.

It's the safest choice,  plus you can make snapshots of Virtual machines
just in case you need to recover something.
El 13/8/2015 4:16 p. m., Ted Roche tedro...@gmail.com escribió:


On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Alan Bourke alanpbou...@fastmail.fm
wrote:

So basically unless you're on the sort of version that corporate users
use, you'll have updates trickling on the whole time and there won't be
'line in the sand' service packs any more.


Well, I would be using the Pro version, so I'd have some control. But
MS spies on everything that's typed, makes it more difficult to
install some software (I prefer a custom HOSTS file, for example, and
a password manager that won't work with Edge browser, etc.) and would
prefer to have a lot more control of my environment, so I'm unlikely
to switch back to Windows as my primary OS, just use it for VFP and
some client work.

From what I understand, from a marketing perspective, there will not
be something called Service Pack 1 but that is a marketing message
and not the reality that there's going to be a mess of patches over
the first couple of months, and the idea that MS is saving up a big
batch of them cleanly integrated together plus some features that
didn't make the first release for a more carefully controlled release
*not called Service Pack One* just seems like good engineering
practices..


--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche  Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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Re: LAST PASS Hacked

[Ricardo Araoz]

Ken keeps them folded in his wallet, the whole bunch of nude photos :P

On 20/06/15 01:59, Geoff wrote:

It's the same as the nude photos hacked on the cloud.  Are they any safer on
someone else's server than your home computer - which is turned off most of
the time anyhow?  Of course, not taking nude photos and putting them
ANYWHERE that isn't encrypted is perhaps a more sensible idea or even... not
taking them at all.



-Original Message-
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ken Dibble
Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 9:45 AM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: LAST PASS Hacked



http://lifehacker.com/lastpass-hacked-time-to-change-your-master-passwo
rd-1711463571

Anything that's in the cloud can be hacked. My advice: unless there is an
essential, functional reason that is much more serious than personal
convenience to put something there, don't. You're only asking for trouble.

In the case of passwords: Do you really think it's safer to keep your
passwords on somebody's server that is potentially connected to every person
who has access to a computer on the internet, than to just keep them on a
piece of paper folded up in your wallet? Wallets are portable too.

When are people going to stop this magical thinking about computers?

Ken Dibble
www.stic-cil.org



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Re: [NF] All OSs are malware

[Ricardo Araoz]

Yes, the NSA compiles it. I guess they just check it's properly coded 
and then compile it so that you may have better security.


On 05/06/15 11:43, Alan Bourke wrote:

  All cryptographic code goes as source code to NSA and is returned as
object code to be used by windows

Does it? Source?




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Re: [NF] All OSs are malware

[Ricardo Araoz]

Verifiable? LOL
An MCP in the encryption area told me personally some 15 years ago (this 
is not hearsay), he had to send his source code and received executable 
code. He is top notch, I won't reveal his name.
As for verifiable or legitimate you may believe my word or not, 
don't really care.


On 06/06/15 12:13, Ted Roche wrote:

No, Ricardo, I believe when Alan said Source? he meant:

Can you be provide a verifiable, legitimate citation to your claim
that the NSA gets Microsoft's encryption source code and ships it back
to them as object code?

I'd be interested in reading that too.


On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com wrote:

Yes, the NSA compiles it. I guess they just check it's properly coded and
then compile it so that you may have better security.

On 05/06/15 11:43, Alan Bourke wrote:

   All cryptographic code goes as source code to NSA and is returned as
object code to be used by windows

Does it? Source?






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Re: [NF] All OSs are malware

[Ricardo Araoz]

All cryptographic code goes as source code to NSA and is returned as 
object code to be used by windows. So draw your own conclusions about 
what's going on there.
I'm concerned about privacy and ownership of my machine (and data) and 
I'm using Ubuntu Linux. Next time I have to change Linux version I'll 
probably go back to Debian.



On 04/06/15 08:33, Ted Roche wrote:

It's worthwhile to read the original op-ed, and consider the message,
regardless of the messenger:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/22/malware-viruses-companies-preinstall

Some good points in there.

On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Ted Roche tedro...@gmail.com wrote:

Well, sometimes it takes an extremist to point out a fundamental truth.

Recently I had to do a project on a brand-new Win 8.1 machine, never
before touched, and wanted to see what happened when I just stuck with
the default settings, as I know many of my users would. I was
astounded by all the EULAs I had to agree with, and the software
defaults were all to use MS cloud and MS remote services just to
operate the local machine: my user account is stored on some MS login,
my documents and pictures are stored on a OneDrive 'cloud' and MS
updates the machine whenever it feels like it. So, somewhere on a
cloud somewhere is a record of every time I logged in or out, or ran
specific software, or took a picture (along, no doubt with location
information), all kept safe from prying eyes by... who?

Stallman is a difficult man, on good days, but he is/was a brilliant
programmer, without whom the GNU toolchain would not have been around
to build Linux. His insights into why we want the source code to the
software that runs our computers are very valid, and worth
consideration. I have been a proud FSF member for years.
(http://www.fsf.org)


On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 3:32 AM, Alan Bourke alanpbou...@fastmail.fm wrote:

Privacy is of course an ever-growing concern but Stallman is as usual
just way too far over on the paranoid nutjob end of the scale.

--
   Alan Bourke
   alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm




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Re: [NF] Recomendations for a developer laptop

[Ricardo Araoz]

I don't get this, my Dell will boot Ubuntu in 60-70 seconds. Then my 
laptop will be on all day, unless suspended, coming up from suspension 
takes about 3 seconds. Why would I spend hard earned extra money to save 
60 seconds on a 10 to 16 hour day? Doesn't make sense to me.
As for general performance, an i5 with my 1Tb HD are more than what I 
need for everyday work. I don't edit video, and unless you are 
recommending a SSD drive for playing I don't think it's money well spent.


On 19/05/15 08:13, Peter Cushing wrote:

On 18/05/2015 12:32, Ted Roche wrote:

HDD: not all that important, as nearly everything we run is mirrored
on the LAN and backed-up to the internet.

If I was buying one now I wouldn't consider anything less than an SSD 
drive, just for the general performance increase especially booting.  
Even if you have a small boot drive and a larger main drive.


Peter






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Re: ProFox List Statistics for April 2015

[Ricardo Araoz]

Congratulations Virgil !!!
Best of luck.



On 01/05/15 12:37, Kurt Wendt wrote:

Ha ha - funny you should ask that. I too was Absolutely SHOCKED to see there 
were NO [OT] messages this month!

And - I think Virgil will not be as active in the forum - since I saw he has a 
new fulltime job.

So - Virgil - Congrats on getting that - as I know you really needed it!

Happy TGIF Day everyone!
-K-

-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bourke
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 11:20 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: ProFox List Statistics for April 2015

I haven't been on the non-tech list for years, where's Michael Madigan gone?

--
   Alan Bourke
   alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm


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Re: OT: A Haunting in Connecticut

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 30/06/12 02:11, Publius Maximus wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Lew Schwartz lew1...@gmail.com wrote:
 On cable 846 as I write. Here's the description:

 A dermatologist and a clairvoyant clear a Connecticut house of
 unwanted spirits. What the f@#!k is the clairvoyant supposed to do?
 Where do people get these ideas?
 The notion of unclean spirits has been around for centuries, and is
 entirely biblical. The word 'Ricardo' comes to mind...


Ok, ok, I get your hint. I'll take a shower.


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Re: [OT] A Haunting in Connecticut

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 30/06/12 07:42, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Ted's going to need an exorcist if you keep posting OT items incorrectly.
 It has to have brackets around the OT.  


Minimus, he's talking to you.

 - Original Message -
 From: Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com
 To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com
 Cc: 
 Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 3:00 AM
 Subject: Re: OT: A Haunting in Connecticut

 On 30/06/12 02:11, Publius Maximus wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Lew Schwartz lew1...@gmail.com wrote:
 On cable 846 as I write. Here's the description:

 A dermatologist and a clairvoyant clear a Connecticut house of
 unwanted spirits. What the f@#!k is the clairvoyant supposed to do?
 Where do people get these ideas?
 The notion of unclean spirits has been around for centuries, and is
 entirely biblical. The word 'Ricardo' comes to mind...

 Ok, ok, I get your hint. I'll take a shower.




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Re: [OT] A Haunting in Connecticut

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 30/06/12 13:37, Publius Maximus wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 30/06/12 07:42, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Ted's going to need an exorcist if you keep posting OT items incorrectly.   
  It has to have brackets around the OT.

 Minimus, he's talking to you.
 No, Dr. Lecter, he's talking *about* Ted.



He's talking about Ted *to* you when he says if YOU keep posting OT
items incorrectly.
Unless Ted is the OP and you *forgot* to cite his original post.

*Cheers*
*Hannibal*


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Re: [OT] Re: True purpose of Fast Furious

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 29/06/12 05:45, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Thank God Ricardo's words of wisdom are being archived for future generations 
 to enjoy.  


Don't like it? Tough!
You may leave OT whenever you want Michaela.



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Re: [OT] Big Brother with ProFox celebrities

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 29/06/12 11:51, MB Software Solutions, LLC wrote:
 You've seen that show Big Brother right? I'm thinking of who would
 be hilarious (in a train-wreck sense) to see in such a contest in the
 same house. Ricardo, Pete, Madigan, Leland, John VP (the Amarosa of
 the bunch)who else? Oh, and Steve Russell for comedic effect. Not
 me--I'd be too boring. My money's on Steve to win. At the very least,
 we'd see some good bbq. :-)


LOL. No weapons allowed!
We'll need knives though... for the bbq.


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Re: [OT] The sky is falling

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 29/06/12 12:53, Ken Kixmoeller (ProFox) wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Michael Oke, II oke...@gmail.com wrote
 They don't have to lay anyone off. The affordable care act makes it 
 acceptable to end employer funded health care and put the onus on the 
 employee as they will find a number of affordable plans at their disposal.
 This is the way it should be. There will be no reform of health care
 until all of the people are paying for it themselves. It is absurd
 that employers pay for health care. As long as it is free to the
 folks that still have fancy plans (employees of big companies, the
 governments and union folks), they will not care about costs.


Bull!
 Employers will always pay for health care once the free market comes
into play. If employees are required to pay for it they will always make
the math on how much money they effectively get into their pockets
before accepting the job. So in the end employers will pay (of course
they will transfer this cost to consumers as usual).



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Re: [OT] Re: True purpose of Fast Furious

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 28/06/12 17:02, Michael Oke, II wrote:
 You are in trouble with the OT cops. 


You are an ass, your son seems to be a half ass (that's because he's too
dumb to be a full ass), and this is probably a family trait, and they
are all asses.

And you know why do I allow myself to tell you this?.. Because you
think there should be no rules to avoid bothering those who don't want
to hear you bray.

So if you should not obey any rules, not even those of courtesy.
Why should I?...
..
.
ASSHOLE!!!



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Re: [OT] Re: True purpose of Fast Furious

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 28/06/12 19:06, Michael Oke, II wrote:
 Actually, you 'allow' yourself to do this because you are an asshole. I'll 
 ask you this once to not speak about my children or my family. 

Or what?

 If you took the time to notice, I chided him in a re-subjected email.

I did. I also noticed you were mocking the people who asked you (in a
very nice and polite way) to keep your shit off their plates.


  Of course you didn't notice, you were too busy being an asshole. 

 As for braying, please don't confuse my posts with the diarrhea that emanates 
 from your keyboard. 


I'll ask you this once to not speak about *EITHER* about my *diarrhoea*
or my keyboard.



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

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Re: [OT] Here's one for Pete - Gay Rights Icon arrested on child porn charges.

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 27/06/12 14:36, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Political capital my ass, it's people like you who allow this to happen in 
 the first place.   A hugely disproportionate number of gays are involved in 
 child molestation, yet people like you champion the cause of gays working 
 closely with children.   Shame on you .



Nice thinking!
Also a huge number of heterosexuals are involved in child molestation.
So I propose only eunuchs are allowed to work closely with children.
Do I have to explain eunuch or do you have your Webster at hand?


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Re: [OT] Here's one for Pete - Gay Rights Icon arrested on child porn charges.

[Ricardo Araoz]

You mean because I'm not after boys like you are? hahaha


On 27/06/12 19:56, Michael Madigan wrote:
 I'm chatting with a eunuch right now.   


 - Original Message -
 From: Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com
 To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com
 Cc: 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [OT] Here's one for Pete - Gay Rights Icon arrested on child 
 porn charges.

 On 27/06/12 14:36, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Political capital my ass, it's people like you who allow this to happen in 
 the first place.   A hugely disproportionate number of gays are involved in 
 child molestation, yet people like you champion the cause of gays working 
 closely with children.   Shame on you .


 Nice thinking!
 Also a huge number of heterosexuals are involved in child molestation.
 So I propose only eunuchs are allowed to work closely with children.
 Do I have to explain eunuch or do you have your Webster at hand?



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Re: [OT] RE: How to unsubscribe?

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 26/06/12 02:14, Adam Buckland wrote:
 Pete,

 A tip hereIf you want to avoid having An*l Sex then it's simple; stop 
 sleeping with gay men...


ROTFLMAO !!!

He can't help it!


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Re: [OT] The Global Warming house of cards is collapsing.

[Ricardo Araoz]

Were my two sentences too obscure for you boys?
Don't worry, I'll try to simplify it.
Would you like the 300 word vocabulary version?

Ok. Before we start. Do you boys understand the meaning of irony?


On 23/06/12 22:44, Michael Madigan wrote:
 It makes lots of sense to him and the voices in his head.   


 
 From: Michael Oke, II oke...@gmail.com
 To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com 
 Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 9:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [OT] The Global Warming house of cards is collapsing.

 You know that you make zero sense, right?


 Michael Oke, II
 661-349-6221

 Contents of this and all messages are intended for their designated 
 recipient. 

 On Jun 23, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 23/06/12 11:45, Michael Oke, II wrote:
 So much for settled science. An independent scientist is one whose word I'd 
 be more inclined to listen to. 

 And of course everybody knows that inclination is a BIG thing in
 science. Specially yours.
 Also of course everybody knows science is settled, it does not change,
 just like the bible.





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Re: [OT] The Global Warming house of cards is collapsing.

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 24/06/12 04:48, Michael Madigan wrote:
 ouyay eallyray areway away oronmay



LOL
And isn't it painful that a moron beats you every time?


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Re: [OT] 2012 plug-in Prius gets 13 miles range on just battery power

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 24/06/12 06:44, Michael Madigan wrote:
 What a tremendous breakthrough!So the ass-hat who buys this has to pay an 
 electrician to either run a dedicated 15 AMP 110 V outlet or a 220 outlet, 
 all for a whopping 13 mile range without gas.  

 That's 6.5 miles out and 6,5 miles back.

 Your mileage may vary. 

 Just don't turn on the air conditioning, the heater, the lights or the radio. 


 http://www.toyota.com/prius-plug-in/ 



I can just picture another moron making fun of the Wright brothers
because they only flew 100 yards and rose a few feet in the air.


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Re: [OT] Last gasp of race hustling

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 23/06/12 06:46, Michael Madigan wrote:
 At what point does this stop?  We've had a Black President,   Attorney 
 General,  Secretary of State,   National Security Advisor, head of the Joint 
 Chiefs, Surgeon General, Generals, Senators, Mayors, Governors, Congressmen, 
 CEOs, CFOs,

 At what point can we cut the America is a racist country crap? 



When Petey and you die?


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Re: [OT] The Global Warming house of cards is collapsing.

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 23/06/12 11:45, Michael Oke, II wrote:
 So much for settled science. An independent scientist is one whose word I'd 
 be more inclined to listen to. 


And of course everybody knows that inclination is a BIG thing in
science. Specially yours.
Also of course everybody knows science is settled, it does not change,
just like the bible.



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Re: [OT] - 10 reasons to ban gay weddings..

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 21/06/12 17:20, Adam Buckland wrote:
 Top ten reasons given to ban same-sex marriages:-
 1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things 
 like eyeglasses, polyester and air conditioning.
 2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging 
 around tall people will make you tall.
 3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy 
 behaviour. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal 
 standing and can sign a marriage contract.
 4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all 
 like many of the principles on which this great country was founded; women 
 are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still 
 illegal.
 5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; 
 the sanctity of marriages like Britney Spears' would be destroyed.
 6) The only valid marriages are those which produce children. Gay couples, 
 infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our 
 orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.
 7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only 
 raise straight children.
 8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the 
 values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have 
 only one religion in America.
 9) Children can never succeed without both a male and a female role model at 
 home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise 
 children.
 10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt 
 to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector 
 economy or longer life spans.


LOL
Good one mate!


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Re: [OT] - 10 reasons to ban gay weddings..

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 22/06/12 16:30, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Here's my list

 Top 3 reasons why homosexual marriage is a bad idea

 1.  Because 3% of deviants shouldn't get to decide what the other 97% do

LOL
3% wish to decide what 3% do. Is it too complicated for you to
understand? Should I try to simplify it?

 2.  Because there's nothing natural about 2 men having sex

OMG! It is industrial!

 3.  Because Europe thinks it's a good idea

Do you always think based on other people's ideas?



 
  From: Adam Buckland adam.buckl...@apac.co.uk
 To: ProFox Email List (profox@leafe.com) profox@leafe.com 
 Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 4:20 PM
 Subject: [OT] - 10 reasons to ban gay weddings..
  
 Top ten reasons given to ban same-sex marriages:-
 1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things 
 like eyeglasses, polyester and air conditioning.
 2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging 
 around tall people will make you tall.
 3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy 
 behaviour. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal 
 standing and can sign a marriage contract.
 4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all 
 like many of the principles on which this great country was founded; women 
 are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still 
 illegal.
 5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; 
 the sanctity of marriages like Britney Spears' would be destroyed.
 6) The only valid marriages are those which produce children. Gay couples, 
 infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our 
 orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.
 7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only 
 raise straight children.
 8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the 
 values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have 
 only one religion in America.
 9) Children can never succeed without both a male and a female role model at 
 home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise 
 children.
 10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt 
 to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector 
 economy or longer life spans.



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Re: [OT] - 10 reasons to ban gay weddings..

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 22/06/12 16:43, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Adam is a Gay American.  LOL


 - Original Message -
 From: Pete Theisen petethei...@verizon.net
 To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com
 Cc: 
 Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:37 PM
 Subject: Re: [OT] - 10 reasons to ban gay weddings..

 On 06/22/2012 11:34 AM, Gérard Lochon wrote:
 - Original Message -
 From: Adam Bucklandadam.buckl...@apac.co.uk
 10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never
 adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the
 service-sector economy or longer life spans.
 I LOVE american humour !
 Hi Gerard,

 Is satire humor? Is Adam American?

Did little puff arsehole here confuse satire with irony?


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Re: [OT] This should further their cause.

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 22/06/12 16:51, Michael Oke, II wrote:
 Now that is logic at work. 


 Michael Oke, II
 661-349-6221

 Contents of this and all messages are intended for their designated 
 recipient. 


Logic from someone that actually states that the mail is intended to
whom it is intended. LOL


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Re: [OT] This should further their cause.

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 22/06/12 18:13, Michael Oke, II wrote:
 FYI, my son typed that into my phone and I haven't bothered to change it. 


You mean to say your son is the .




 Michael Oke, II
 661-349-6221

 Contents of this and all messages are intended for their designated 
 recipient. 

 On Jun 22, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 22/06/12 16:51, Michael Oke, II wrote:
 Now that is logic at work. 


 Michael Oke, II
 661-349-6221

 Contents of this and all messages are intended for their designated 
 recipient. 

 Logic from someone that actually states that the mail is intended to
 whom it is intended. LOL





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Re: [OT] This should further their cause.

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 22/06/12 20:18, Michael Oke, II wrote:
 I'd be extremely careful with that line of thinking. 

What line of thinking?
Are you sure I am the designated recipient of this and all messages?


 Michael Oke, II
 661-349-6221

 Contents of this and all messages are intended for their designated 
 recipient. 

 On Jun 22, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 22/06/12 18:13, Michael Oke, II wrote:
 FYI, my son typed that into my phone and I haven't bothered to change it. 

 You mean to say your son is the .



 Michael Oke, II
 661-349-6221

 Contents of this and all messages are intended for their designated 
 recipient. 

 On Jun 22, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 22/06/12 16:51, Michael Oke, II wrote:
 Now that is logic at work. 


 Michael Oke, II
 661-349-6221

 Contents of this and all messages are intended for their designated 
 recipient. 

 Logic from someone that actually states that the mail is intended to
 whom it is intended. LOL






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[OT] El valioso tiempo de los maduros

[Ricardo Araoz]

Sorry but the translation I found sucked. So just for those of you who dig 
Spanish, maybe this will echo inside.

Conté mis años y descubrí, que tengo menos tiempo para vivir de aquí en
adelante, que el que viví hasta ahora...

Me siento como aquel chico que ganó un paquete de golosinas: las primeras
las comió con agrado, pero, cuando percibió que quedaban pocas, comenzó a
saborearlas profundamente.

Ya no tengo tiempo para reuniones interminables, donde se discuten
estatutos, normas, procedimientos y reglamentos internos, sabiendo que no se
va a lograr nada.

Ya no tengo tiempo para soportar absurdas personas que, a pesar de su edad
cronológica, no han crecido.

Ya no tengo tiempo para lidiar con mediocridades.
No quiero estar en reuniones donde desfilan egos inflados.

No tolero a maniobreros y ventajeros.

Me molestan los envidiosos, que tratan de desacreditar a los más capaces,
para apropiarse de sus lugares, talentos y logros. 


Detesto, si soy testigo, de los defectos que genera la lucha por un
majestuoso cargo.

Las personas no discuten contenidos, apenas los títulos.

Mi tiempo es escaso como para discutir títulos.

Quiero la esencia, mi alma tiene prisa... 

Sin muchas golosinas en el paquete... 

Quiero vivir al lado de gente humana, muy humana. 

Que sepa reír, de sus errores. 

Que no se envanezca, con sus triunfos. 

Que no se considere electa, antes de hora. 

Que no huya, de sus responsabilidades. 

Que defienda, la dignidad humana. 

Y que desee tan sólo andar del lado de la verdad y la honradez. 
Lo esencial es lo que hace que la vida valga la pena. 

Quiero rodearme de gente, que sepa tocar el corazón de las personas... 

Gente a quien los golpes duros de la vida, le enseñó a crecer con toques
suaves en el alma. 

Sí... tengo prisa... por vivir con la intensidad que sólo la madurez puede
dar. 

Pretendo no desperdiciar parte alguna de las golosinas que me quedan... 
Estoy seguro que serán más exquisitas que las que hasta ahora he comido. 

Mi meta es llegar al final satisfecho y en paz con mis seres queridos y con
mi conciencia. 

Espero que la tuya sea la misma, porque de cualquier manera llegarás...

 Mario de Andrade

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Re: [OT] El valioso tiempo de los maduros

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 19/06/12 10:26, Eurico Chagas Filho wrote:
 Bien traduzido, en portugues le sona bien tambien.
 Sorry my written Spanish sucks...

 E.


The text actually belongs to Brazilian poet Mario de Andrade. Maybe
you'll be able to google the original text.
Tu español es seguramente mejor que mi portugués.


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Re: [NF] He invented the Web.

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 16/06/12 10:26, Ed Leafe wrote:
 On Jun 15, 2012, at 10:06 PM, Michael Oke, II wrote:

 That said, no where did I say that he 'claimed to have invented the 
 Internet'.
 Kurt wrote:  I was skeptical by the title of this message - since many have 
 busted on Gore for claiming he invented The Web.

 Your reply: Gore's claim was about the Internet not just the web. 
 Berners-Lee, while a bit nuts, is the real deal.

   I'll leave it for those who are familiar with logic to parse your reply.


What does logic have to do with his replies?


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Re: [NF] He invented the Web.

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 16/06/12 12:51, Michael Madigan wrote:
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [NF] He invented the Web.

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 16/06/12 12:20, Michael Oke, II wrote:
[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: [OT] Beauty Pageant rigged?

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 15/06/12 17:00, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Obama's doing a fine job, what was I thinking? 



Finally!
I knew sooner or later you'd take your head out of your arse and take a
look.
Now, do you need some soap? To wash the shit out of your ears I mean.


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Re: [OT] Traitor-in-Chief

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 09/06/12 15:30, Michael Madigan wrote:
 How did someone with ties to known terrorists like Bill Ayers get a security 
 clearance in the first place?

H. really! How did he.h..
Is the NSA incompetent?
Or is Madigan an idiot?
Tough question mate.




 - Original Message -
 From: Pete Theisen petethei...@verizon.net
 To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com
 Cc: 
 Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2012 4:32 AM
 Subject: [OT] Traitor-in-Chief

 Hi Everybody,

 http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/leaker-chief_646839.html?page=1

 Turns out the boogieman of national security is an insider.


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Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 05/06/12 10:20, Nicholas Geti wrote:
 Your definition of idiot is a lot different than mine.

My definition is pretty simple.
Anyone who states that NO idiot can get rich is, by definition, an idiot.
If he also thinks that ANY idiot that inherits it will loose it, then he
is by definition an idiot squared.




 - Original Message - 
 From: Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com
 To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com
 Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 11:08 AM
 Subject: Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough


 On 24/05/12 15:57, Nicholas Geti wrote:
 But you called her an idiot. Idiots don't get rich and if they inherit it
 they lose it fast.

 That's an idiotic statement.
 Idiots do get rich. And if they inherit it, some of them don't loose it
 fast enough.





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Re: [OT] Get Up Stand Up

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 05/06/12 16:42, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Let's get this straight, waterboarding was bad, drone attacks are good? 


I'll get it straight for you. If you waterboard, then you are a torturer.
If you kill your enemy when there's a state of war then you are ok.
If you arrest (or kill if he resists with danger to your life) and send
to a judge a terrorist when you are not at war then you are ok.
If you MURDER (be it with drone plane, sniper, bomb, rocket etc.)
someone be it terrorist or not, then you are either a murderer or a
terrorist yourself.

Easy, right?


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Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 05/06/12 23:51, Nicholas Geti wrote:
 See http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/idiot?s=t for definition of 
 idiot

But it was YOU who started talking about MY definition of idiot. So to
now come up with a dictionary is, shall we say, idiotic.




 - Original Message - 
 From: Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com
 To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com
 Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 6:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough


 On 05/06/12 10:20, Nicholas Geti wrote:
 Your definition of idiot is a lot different than mine.
 My definition is pretty simple.
 Anyone who states that NO idiot can get rich is, by definition, an idiot.
 If he also thinks that ANY idiot that inherits it will loose it, then he
 is by definition an idiot squared.



 - Original Message - 
 From: Ricardo Araoz ricar...@gmail.com
 To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com
 Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 11:08 AM
 Subject: Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough


 On 24/05/12 15:57, Nicholas Geti wrote:
 But you called her an idiot. Idiots don't get rich and if they inherit 
 it
 they lose it fast.

 That's an idiotic statement.
 Idiots do get rich. And if they inherit it, some of them don't loose it
 fast enough.





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Re: [NF] Solar Plane flying today

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 05/06/12 10:39, Kurt Wendt wrote:
 Hey Pete - thanks for that link. The Animation - that zooms around the
 plane - and the Targets that pop up info on the parts - is very
 interesting indeed!!!

 -K-

 -Original Message-
 From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On
 Behalf Of Pete Theisen
 Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:11 AM

 Hi Everybody,
 http://www.solarimpulse.com/en/airplane/hb-sia/

 Guess he's up now . . .


So what's the big deal. We've had solar boats (that's sailboats for you
hillbillies) for millenia.


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Re: [OT] Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 31/05/12 18:00, Michael Madigan wrote:
 http://thelookingspoon.com/tlsimages/blog/2012/young_obama.jpg



You mean because in USA you usually vote idiots for president?

Village idiot - USA President hahahahaha


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Re: [OT] Filthy Bill at it again

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 24/05/12 13:41, Kurt Wendt wrote:
 I think you're just JEALOUS Pete - as I'm sure you would LOVE To be
 between those 2 women like he is in that Pic! I sure would!!!


He's not. He doesn't like women.


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Re: [OT] - Fox News Viwers are less informed than those who watch no TV...

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 24/05/12 19:14, Michael Madigan wrote:
 I wouldn't let your average NPR listener wash my car.


They might find out you are a puff?


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Re: [OT] - Fox News Viwers are less informed than those who watch no TV...

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 24/05/12 18:50, Michael Madigan wrote:
 They're just suggesting that a study by a terrible university isn't worth 
 much.  

He's just suggesting that they should question the study, not the
university.
Jsas! I'm getting tired of translating from English to Moron


  


 - Original Message -
 From: Ed Leafe e...@leafe.com
 To: ProFox Email List profox@leafe.com
 Cc: 
 Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [OT] - Fox News Viwers are less informed than those who watch no 
 TV...

 On May 24, 2012, at 2:58 PM, MB Software Solutions, LLC wrote:

 Fox News responded by focusing on Fairleigh Dickinson's academic record
 Ah, the old ad hominem argument. Glad to see that they stay true to form!



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Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 23/05/12 12:08, Kurt Wendt wrote:
 Excellent response there Ricardo - Touche!

 I actually changed my subscription to the list a few days back - so I
 can see the [OT] communications. However, so far I find it frustrating
 since it seems about the ONLY Topic on here is Obama Bashing - as well
 as Bashing of Dem's! Which is a really sad state of affairs. Its one of
 the reasons I hate to get involved with political discussions. 

 It seems that EVERY DAMNED Time a Dem gets to be President - the ENTIRE
 Time the Rep's keep trying to Bash the Pres.

The Peronistas do the same here. I think the behaviour characterizes
people only concerned with power, not with what they might do with it.


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Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 23/05/12 14:44, Kurt Wendt wrote:
 Generally speaking - I don't watch the news much. Its almost always about 
 death, killings, bombings and other Bad stuff. Hardly ever any Good news!

 When Bush got into office (of course part of the election was Fixed!) - and 
 then we had to see him on TV - it was EMBARRASING! Our country had the nerve 
 to put someone in the White House who sounded on TV - when he gave speeches - 
 like a Southern HillBilly! Just the way he spoke. It was LUDICROUS!

Well... actually a *northern* hillbilly. We are not *that* stupid here!


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Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 23/05/12 17:31, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Generally speaking - I don't watch the news much.

 I can tell.  



C'mon!

You can't tell right from left! Let alone tie your own shoes.


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Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 24/05/12 00:26, Michael Madigan wrote:
 They keep calling Sarah an idiot, are they honestly going to tell us that Joe 
 Biden is smarter than her?  


If he is not, then by your logic she is less of an idiot?
So *that's* how you finished school!


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Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 24/05/12 03:56, Michael Madigan wrote:
 I bet her net worth is now higher than Clueless Joe too.

So *that* is your measure of a human being. How much money they've got.
Hardly surprising.


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Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 24/05/12 15:57, Nicholas Geti wrote:
 But you called her an idiot. Idiots don't get rich and if they inherit it 
 they lose it fast.


That's an idiotic statement.
Idiots do get rich. And if they inherit it, some of them don't loose it
fast enough.


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Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 24/05/12 18:43, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Street whores are more ethical than Joe Biden.   


I believe him.
He's dated them all


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Re: [OT] Can't lie well enough or fast enough

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 22/05/12 16:12, Michael Madigan wrote:
 Anybody who votes for Obama a second time is a MORON.


And what's YOUR excuse?


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Re: [OT] Bammer cartoon

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 11/05/12 04:48, Michael Madigan wrote:
 All Limbaugh's wives were heterosexual women. 



Thanks! And me here thinking his wives were lesbian women with a twist
for masochism.


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Re: [OT] Bammer cartoon

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 10/05/12 12:21, Jean Laeremans wrote:
 On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Pete Theisen petethei...@verizon.net wrote:
 back in Jesus' days. Back then the 1 - 2% were content to privately
 sodomize and infect each other without public endorsement.
 Not your strong point ancient history methinks...


Not his strong point being a human being methinks...


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Re: [OT] Bammer cartoon

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 10/05/12 12:35, Jean Laeremans wrote:
 On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Pete Theisen petethei...@verizon.net wrote:
 Jean Laeremans wrote:
 On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Pete Theisen petethei...@verizon.net 
 wrote:
 back in Jesus' days. Back then the 1 - 2% were content to privately
 sodomize and infect each other without public endorsement.
 Not your strong point ancient history methinks...
 Hi Jean,

 I have 24 credits in Theology back in the day when credits meant
 something. How many Theology credits do you have that you would be
 qualified to judge me?
 --
 I meant history not fairy tales.


LOL
He's just an old choir boy that got abused by a priest, never able to
accept his latent homosexuality though.



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Re: [OT] Game of Thrones fans?

[Ricardo Araoz]

On 10/05/12 18:02, Eurico Chagas Filho wrote:
 I got four books, there is one missing, the last one.
 And I watched all episodes, some I downloaded...
 Big fan.


Got all books, watched all episodes. Not liking this second year though.


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