Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

I’m really curious what the frameset will end up priced at. And when those 
Ortho bars will be back! Haha. It they were a 25.4 instead of 26 bar clamp 
would make them seemingly perfect. Having to buy them and a new FacePlater 
means I’ll likely have Doom bend me something similar when they start 
taking orders again so I can keep the stem I have. 

On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 5:16:28 AM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> Here’s a front-on shot of that AI Crust fork crown, if anyone is 
> interested.
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> On Oct 31, 2022, at 9:35 PM, Hoch in ut  wrote:
>
> Thanks for the photo and details. 
>
>
> I don’t think stack will be an issue. It’s obvious made for swept back 
> riser bars (ie Ortho, Bosco, Albatross, etc). Handlebars look about level 
> with the saddle in the picture. I personally have my Romanceur set up with 
> about 1” drop (with Albatross). . 
> I’m looking forward to its release. I don’t do well with super upright 
> riding position( Gus, Suz, Clem). I like the slightly sporty riding 
> position with riser bars. 
>
> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:52:54 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> [image: 10502AD6-F020-4485-8CA5-11800239A776.jpeg]
>>
>> This is what my rear clearance looks like 29x2.5 Ehline. I know I know, 
>> take the boot off. Haha. 
>>
>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:51:04 PM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, it looks to me like steel blades in an aluminum crown - not 
>>> unlike the bontrager composite forks that were popular upgrades in the 
>>> early 90s.  I kind of dig it.  To each his own  but I also really like the 
>>> dropouts.  Reminds me of sturdy bmx forks - as well as early klunker 
>>> upgrade forks - not wallmart.  Clearly I'm swooned by historical references 
>>> though.
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 1:03:39 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>>
 Looks like a torture device. The only thing that rides worse than 
 straight aluminum forks, would be straight aluminum disc forks. I know:
 [image: IMG_0387 (2)s.JPG]

 Laing

 On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:37:11 PM UTC-4 DavidP wrote:

> Here's a recent teaser photo of the Crust AL bike:
>
> [image: crustbikes-al.jpg]
>
> -Dave (looking at too many bikes while finalizing parts for a Platy 
> build)
>
> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 11:34:04 AM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately there are no details yet, just teasers. Supposed to be 
>> something like the purple M2 specialized he’s been riding but with 27.5 
>> up 
>> to 2.6” tire and some tweaks he thinks will make it better. My favorite 
>> rides are mountain goating around and having to carry through sections. 
>> Exploration rides. So the light bike seems like it would be fun for 
>> that. 
>> But there are only 50 frames made for the first run. Made by a guy in 
>> Vermont I think. They will likely sell in seconds. No idea on a price 
>> for 
>> the frame/fork yet so who knows. Similar ugly as sin front dropouts as 
>> the 
>> Wombat is the only downside I could see from the teaser. Looks like 
>> something on a bike from Walmart. There is a picture on the ronsbikes 
>> instagram. 
>>
>> I looked but couldn’t find the full picture I had seen somewhere, 
>> sorry!
>>
>>
>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 8:04:21 AM UTC-7 Hoch in ut wrote:
>>
>>> I haven’t heard of the Ronnie aluminum ATB. Any details you can 
>>> post? A link? 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 6:26:46 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The only conclusion I can come up with is N+1. I thought, maybe 
 I’ll just sell my Susie, I absolutely love my Clem H. Had to take the 
 Clem 
 apart for service, it’s getting a new fork and a full powder coat job. 
 Tried to throw the 2.5 Ehline from my Susie in just to see. Honestly a 
 bit 
 tight for my comfort. The Susie has tons of tire clearance for mud 
 side to 
 side, I couldn’t get much more height because I’m within 3mm of the 
 brake 
 (rubber boot, without I guess a 2.8 would fit with similar room) in 
 the 
 rear. 

 My Susie rides more lively and (likely the tire size) smooth. 
 Unless I decide to have a custom frame made or go with something from 
 Tanglefoot (71 degree seat tube angle!), I can’t see selling the 
 Susie. I 
 just kinda wish it was 27.5” in my size.  I like the smaller wheel for 
 the 
 exploration riding I do. The Susie has more clearance and the tubes 
 flex a 
 lot to give a nice ride. The Clem is stout and ready for anything. 
 They are 
 both such great bikes, if they fit your bike needs. But, catch me on 
 the 
 right day and a large gold Susie might be for sale!

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Hoch in ut]

Thanks for the photo and details. 

I don’t think stack will be an issue. It’s obvious made for swept back 
riser bars (ie Ortho, Bosco, Albatross, etc). Handlebars look about level 
with the saddle in the picture. I personally have my Romanceur set up with 
about 1” drop (with Albatross). . 
I’m looking forward to its release. I don’t do well with super upright 
riding position( Gus, Suz, Clem). I like the slightly sporty riding 
position with riser bars. 

On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:52:54 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: 10502AD6-F020-4485-8CA5-11800239A776.jpeg]
>
> This is what my rear clearance looks like 29x2.5 Ehline. I know I know, 
> take the boot off. Haha. 
>
> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:51:04 PM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Actually, it looks to me like steel blades in an aluminum crown - not 
>> unlike the bontrager composite forks that were popular upgrades in the 
>> early 90s.  I kind of dig it.  To each his own  but I also really like the 
>> dropouts.  Reminds me of sturdy bmx forks - as well as early klunker 
>> upgrade forks - not wallmart.  Clearly I'm swooned by historical references 
>> though.
>>
>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 1:03:39 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like a torture device. The only thing that rides worse than 
>>> straight aluminum forks, would be straight aluminum disc forks. I know:
>>> [image: IMG_0387 (2)s.JPG]
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:37:11 PM UTC-4 DavidP wrote:
>>>
 Here's a recent teaser photo of the Crust AL bike:

 [image: crustbikes-al.jpg]

 -Dave (looking at too many bikes while finalizing parts for a Platy 
 build)

 On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 11:34:04 AM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Unfortunately there are no details yet, just teasers. Supposed to be 
> something like the purple M2 specialized he’s been riding but with 27.5 
> up 
> to 2.6” tire and some tweaks he thinks will make it better. My favorite 
> rides are mountain goating around and having to carry through sections. 
> Exploration rides. So the light bike seems like it would be fun for that. 
> But there are only 50 frames made for the first run. Made by a guy in 
> Vermont I think. They will likely sell in seconds. No idea on a price for 
> the frame/fork yet so who knows. Similar ugly as sin front dropouts as 
> the 
> Wombat is the only downside I could see from the teaser. Looks like 
> something on a bike from Walmart. There is a picture on the ronsbikes 
> instagram. 
>
> I looked but couldn’t find the full picture I had seen somewhere, 
> sorry!
>
>
> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 8:04:21 AM UTC-7 Hoch in ut wrote:
>
>> I haven’t heard of the Ronnie aluminum ATB. Any details you can post? 
>> A link? 
>>
>> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 6:26:46 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The only conclusion I can come up with is N+1. I thought, maybe I’ll 
>>> just sell my Susie, I absolutely love my Clem H. Had to take the Clem 
>>> apart 
>>> for service, it’s getting a new fork and a full powder coat job. Tried 
>>> to 
>>> throw the 2.5 Ehline from my Susie in just to see. Honestly a bit tight 
>>> for 
>>> my comfort. The Susie has tons of tire clearance for mud side to side, 
>>> I 
>>> couldn’t get much more height because I’m within 3mm of the brake 
>>> (rubber 
>>> boot, without I guess a 2.8 would fit with similar room) in the rear. 
>>>
>>> My Susie rides more lively and (likely the tire size) smooth. Unless 
>>> I decide to have a custom frame made or go with something from 
>>> Tanglefoot 
>>> (71 degree seat tube angle!), I can’t see selling the Susie. I just 
>>> kinda 
>>> wish it was 27.5” in my size.  I like the smaller wheel for the 
>>> exploration 
>>> riding I do. The Susie has more clearance and the tubes flex a lot to 
>>> give 
>>> a nice ride. The Clem is stout and ready for anything. They are both 
>>> such 
>>> great bikes, if they fit your bike needs. But, catch me on the right 
>>> day 
>>> and a large gold Susie might be for sale!
>>>
>>> Anybody else excited to see the new Ronnie Romance aluminum (gasp!) 
>>> ATB bike? 27.5x2.6 capable rim brake adventure bike. Nice. 
>>> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 4:33:36 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The only conclusion (?) I can get from this tire discussion on 
 Susie / Gus & possibly Clems is - get a duplicate set of wheels. One 
 for 
 pavement / gravel, and a dedicated set for MTB with proper knobbies. 
 Anything less seems a compromise?

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 30, 2022, at 12:14 PM, Brian Turner  
 wrote:

 

 I’m running the Ehline 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

And thank you Dave for tracking that down! It looks like a lot of fun for 
certain rides. I Think Keith is right about the steel blades. 

On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 1:52:54 PM UTC-7 Ryan Frahm wrote:

> [image: 10502AD6-F020-4485-8CA5-11800239A776.jpeg]
>
> This is what my rear clearance looks like 29x2.5 Ehline. I know I know, 
> take the boot off. Haha. 
>
> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:51:04 PM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Actually, it looks to me like steel blades in an aluminum crown - not 
>> unlike the bontrager composite forks that were popular upgrades in the 
>> early 90s.  I kind of dig it.  To each his own  but I also really like the 
>> dropouts.  Reminds me of sturdy bmx forks - as well as early klunker 
>> upgrade forks - not wallmart.  Clearly I'm swooned by historical references 
>> though.
>>
>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 1:03:39 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like a torture device. The only thing that rides worse than 
>>> straight aluminum forks, would be straight aluminum disc forks. I know:
>>> [image: IMG_0387 (2)s.JPG]
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:37:11 PM UTC-4 DavidP wrote:
>>>
 Here's a recent teaser photo of the Crust AL bike:

 [image: crustbikes-al.jpg]

 -Dave (looking at too many bikes while finalizing parts for a Platy 
 build)

 On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 11:34:04 AM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Unfortunately there are no details yet, just teasers. Supposed to be 
> something like the purple M2 specialized he’s been riding but with 27.5 
> up 
> to 2.6” tire and some tweaks he thinks will make it better. My favorite 
> rides are mountain goating around and having to carry through sections. 
> Exploration rides. So the light bike seems like it would be fun for that. 
> But there are only 50 frames made for the first run. Made by a guy in 
> Vermont I think. They will likely sell in seconds. No idea on a price for 
> the frame/fork yet so who knows. Similar ugly as sin front dropouts as 
> the 
> Wombat is the only downside I could see from the teaser. Looks like 
> something on a bike from Walmart. There is a picture on the ronsbikes 
> instagram. 
>
> I looked but couldn’t find the full picture I had seen somewhere, 
> sorry!
>
>
> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 8:04:21 AM UTC-7 Hoch in ut wrote:
>
>> I haven’t heard of the Ronnie aluminum ATB. Any details you can post? 
>> A link? 
>>
>> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 6:26:46 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The only conclusion I can come up with is N+1. I thought, maybe I’ll 
>>> just sell my Susie, I absolutely love my Clem H. Had to take the Clem 
>>> apart 
>>> for service, it’s getting a new fork and a full powder coat job. Tried 
>>> to 
>>> throw the 2.5 Ehline from my Susie in just to see. Honestly a bit tight 
>>> for 
>>> my comfort. The Susie has tons of tire clearance for mud side to side, 
>>> I 
>>> couldn’t get much more height because I’m within 3mm of the brake 
>>> (rubber 
>>> boot, without I guess a 2.8 would fit with similar room) in the rear. 
>>>
>>> My Susie rides more lively and (likely the tire size) smooth. Unless 
>>> I decide to have a custom frame made or go with something from 
>>> Tanglefoot 
>>> (71 degree seat tube angle!), I can’t see selling the Susie. I just 
>>> kinda 
>>> wish it was 27.5” in my size.  I like the smaller wheel for the 
>>> exploration 
>>> riding I do. The Susie has more clearance and the tubes flex a lot to 
>>> give 
>>> a nice ride. The Clem is stout and ready for anything. They are both 
>>> such 
>>> great bikes, if they fit your bike needs. But, catch me on the right 
>>> day 
>>> and a large gold Susie might be for sale!
>>>
>>> Anybody else excited to see the new Ronnie Romance aluminum (gasp!) 
>>> ATB bike? 27.5x2.6 capable rim brake adventure bike. Nice. 
>>> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 4:33:36 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The only conclusion (?) I can get from this tire discussion on 
 Susie / Gus & possibly Clems is - get a duplicate set of wheels. One 
 for 
 pavement / gravel, and a dedicated set for MTB with proper knobbies. 
 Anything less seems a compromise?

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 30, 2022, at 12:14 PM, Brian Turner  
 wrote:

 

 I’m running the Ehline 27.5 x 2.5 on my Gus currently. I had them 
 on a previous bike that was a dedicated trail bike, and I liked them 
 for 
 that purpose a lot, so I knew what to expect. So far, I’m riding my 
 Gus 
 50/50 dirt/pavement and I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised at how 
 well 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[iamkeith]

Actually, it looks to me like steel blades in an aluminum crown - not 
unlike the bontrager composite forks that were popular upgrades in the 
early 90s.  I kind of dig it.  To each his own  but I also really like the 
dropouts.  Reminds me of sturdy bmx forks - as well as early klunker 
upgrade forks - not wallmart.  Clearly I'm swooned by historical references 
though.

On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 1:03:39 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:

> Looks like a torture device. The only thing that rides worse than straight 
> aluminum forks, would be straight aluminum disc forks. I know:
> [image: IMG_0387 (2)s.JPG]
>
> Laing
>
> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:37:11 PM UTC-4 DavidP wrote:
>
>> Here's a recent teaser photo of the Crust AL bike:
>>
>> [image: crustbikes-al.jpg]
>>
>> -Dave (looking at too many bikes while finalizing parts for a Platy build)
>>
>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 11:34:04 AM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately there are no details yet, just teasers. Supposed to be 
>>> something like the purple M2 specialized he’s been riding but with 27.5 up 
>>> to 2.6” tire and some tweaks he thinks will make it better. My favorite 
>>> rides are mountain goating around and having to carry through sections. 
>>> Exploration rides. So the light bike seems like it would be fun for that. 
>>> But there are only 50 frames made for the first run. Made by a guy in 
>>> Vermont I think. They will likely sell in seconds. No idea on a price for 
>>> the frame/fork yet so who knows. Similar ugly as sin front dropouts as the 
>>> Wombat is the only downside I could see from the teaser. Looks like 
>>> something on a bike from Walmart. There is a picture on the ronsbikes 
>>> instagram. 
>>>
>>> I looked but couldn’t find the full picture I had seen somewhere, sorry!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 8:04:21 AM UTC-7 Hoch in ut wrote:
>>>
 I haven’t heard of the Ronnie aluminum ATB. Any details you can post? A 
 link? 

 On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 6:26:46 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> The only conclusion I can come up with is N+1. I thought, maybe I’ll 
> just sell my Susie, I absolutely love my Clem H. Had to take the Clem 
> apart 
> for service, it’s getting a new fork and a full powder coat job. Tried to 
> throw the 2.5 Ehline from my Susie in just to see. Honestly a bit tight 
> for 
> my comfort. The Susie has tons of tire clearance for mud side to side, I 
> couldn’t get much more height because I’m within 3mm of the brake (rubber 
> boot, without I guess a 2.8 would fit with similar room) in the rear. 
>
> My Susie rides more lively and (likely the tire size) smooth. Unless I 
> decide to have a custom frame made or go with something from Tanglefoot 
> (71 
> degree seat tube angle!), I can’t see selling the Susie. I just kinda 
> wish 
> it was 27.5” in my size.  I like the smaller wheel for the exploration 
> riding I do. The Susie has more clearance and the tubes flex a lot to 
> give 
> a nice ride. The Clem is stout and ready for anything. They are both such 
> great bikes, if they fit your bike needs. But, catch me on the right day 
> and a large gold Susie might be for sale!
>
> Anybody else excited to see the new Ronnie Romance aluminum (gasp!) 
> ATB bike? 27.5x2.6 capable rim brake adventure bike. Nice. 
> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 4:33:36 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> The only conclusion (?) I can get from this tire discussion on Susie 
>> / Gus & possibly Clems is - get a duplicate set of wheels. One for 
>> pavement 
>> / gravel, and a dedicated set for MTB with proper knobbies. Anything 
>> less 
>> seems a compromise?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2022, at 12:14 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I’m running the Ehline 27.5 x 2.5 on my Gus currently. I had them on 
>> a previous bike that was a dedicated trail bike, and I liked them for 
>> that 
>> purpose a lot, so I knew what to expect. So far, I’m riding my Gus 50/50 
>> dirt/pavement and I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised at how well 
>> they 
>> roll on paved surfaces. Pretty quiet, too. I doubt I’m going to be doing 
>> any long paved rides, but for knocking around town and shorter paved 
>> trips 
>> 30 mi or less, they are quite enjoyable. 
>>
>> All this said, if Jan H. decided to make a tire slightly bigger than 
>> the Umtanum or Fleecer Ridge in the 2.5” / 2.6” range, I would buy them 
>> in 
>> an instant. Those RH knobbies perform equally well and roll fast and 
>> quiet 
>> on all surfaces in my opinion and experience.
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>
>> I’ll chime in on the Teravail Ehline vs the Ranger. Granted, I ran a 
>> 3” Ranger tough vs the Light 2.5 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

Unfortunately there are no details yet, just teasers. Supposed to be 
something like the purple M2 specialized he’s been riding but with 27.5 up 
to 2.6” tire and some tweaks he thinks will make it better. My favorite 
rides are mountain goating around and having to carry through sections. 
Exploration rides. So the light bike seems like it would be fun for that. 
But there are only 50 frames made for the first run. Made by a guy in 
Vermont I think. They will likely sell in seconds. No idea on a price for 
the frame/fork yet so who knows. Similar ugly as sin front dropouts as the 
Wombat is the only downside I could see from the teaser. Looks like 
something on a bike from Walmart. There is a picture on the ronsbikes 
instagram. 

I looked but couldn’t find the full picture I had seen somewhere, sorry!


On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 8:04:21 AM UTC-7 Hoch in ut wrote:

> I haven’t heard of the Ronnie aluminum ATB. Any details you can post? A 
> link? 
>
> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 6:26:46 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The only conclusion I can come up with is N+1. I thought, maybe I’ll just 
>> sell my Susie, I absolutely love my Clem H. Had to take the Clem apart for 
>> service, it’s getting a new fork and a full powder coat job. Tried to throw 
>> the 2.5 Ehline from my Susie in just to see. Honestly a bit tight for my 
>> comfort. The Susie has tons of tire clearance for mud side to side, I 
>> couldn’t get much more height because I’m within 3mm of the brake (rubber 
>> boot, without I guess a 2.8 would fit with similar room) in the rear. 
>>
>> My Susie rides more lively and (likely the tire size) smooth. Unless I 
>> decide to have a custom frame made or go with something from Tanglefoot (71 
>> degree seat tube angle!), I can’t see selling the Susie. I just kinda wish 
>> it was 27.5” in my size.  I like the smaller wheel for the exploration 
>> riding I do. The Susie has more clearance and the tubes flex a lot to give 
>> a nice ride. The Clem is stout and ready for anything. They are both such 
>> great bikes, if they fit your bike needs. But, catch me on the right day 
>> and a large gold Susie might be for sale!
>>
>> Anybody else excited to see the new Ronnie Romance aluminum (gasp!) ATB 
>> bike? 27.5x2.6 capable rim brake adventure bike. Nice. 
>> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 4:33:36 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The only conclusion (?) I can get from this tire discussion on Susie / 
>>> Gus & possibly Clems is - get a duplicate set of wheels. One for pavement / 
>>> gravel, and a dedicated set for MTB with proper knobbies. Anything less 
>>> seems a compromise?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 30, 2022, at 12:14 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I’m running the Ehline 27.5 x 2.5 on my Gus currently. I had them on a 
>>> previous bike that was a dedicated trail bike, and I liked them for that 
>>> purpose a lot, so I knew what to expect. So far, I’m riding my Gus 50/50 
>>> dirt/pavement and I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised at how well they 
>>> roll on paved surfaces. Pretty quiet, too. I doubt I’m going to be doing 
>>> any long paved rides, but for knocking around town and shorter paved trips 
>>> 30 mi or less, they are quite enjoyable. 
>>>
>>> All this said, if Jan H. decided to make a tire slightly bigger than the 
>>> Umtanum or Fleecer Ridge in the 2.5” / 2.6” range, I would buy them in an 
>>> instant. Those RH knobbies perform equally well and roll fast and quiet on 
>>> all surfaces in my opinion and experience.
>>>
>>> On Oct 30, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>>
>>> I’ll chime in on the Teravail Ehline vs the Ranger. Granted, I ran a 3” 
>>> Ranger tough vs the Light 2.5 Ehline, but the Ranger was extremely slow in 
>>> comparison. I haven’t tried the Vittoria, but I’ve heard they are great 
>>> tires. That being said, when I need new tires they will likely be Rene 
>>> Herse Fleecer Ridge endurance casing. They are fantastic all around tires, 
>>> worth the extra $ in my experience. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 9:26:16 PM UTC-7 mkernan...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 If we’re talking tires,  take a look at the Kenda Booster Pro.   It 
 comes in 29x 2.6 and 27.5x2.8 and both in 120 TPI with standard casing and 
 a more puncture resistant casing,  both tubeless ready.I have the 
 29x2.2 version and they are a surprisingly fast and not buzzy on pavement 
 and very very grippy tire on gravel and single track.  I have them in the 
 standard casing and they feel really solid and don’t squirm with running 
 lower pressure.   

 A quick look at the tech specs and the claimed weights are very light 
 for a 29x2.6 tire( 681 +/-34 g for the standard casing and 763 +/- 38g for 
 the more puncture resistant casing.   Again,  I only have the 29x2.2 tires 
 so can’t speak of real world experience of the 29x 2.6 or 27.5x2.8 but if 
 the characteristics carry 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Hoch in ut]

I haven’t heard of the Ronnie aluminum ATB. Any details you can post? A 
link? 

On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 6:26:46 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> The only conclusion I can come up with is N+1. I thought, maybe I’ll just 
> sell my Susie, I absolutely love my Clem H. Had to take the Clem apart for 
> service, it’s getting a new fork and a full powder coat job. Tried to throw 
> the 2.5 Ehline from my Susie in just to see. Honestly a bit tight for my 
> comfort. The Susie has tons of tire clearance for mud side to side, I 
> couldn’t get much more height because I’m within 3mm of the brake (rubber 
> boot, without I guess a 2.8 would fit with similar room) in the rear. 
>
> My Susie rides more lively and (likely the tire size) smooth. Unless I 
> decide to have a custom frame made or go with something from Tanglefoot (71 
> degree seat tube angle!), I can’t see selling the Susie. I just kinda wish 
> it was 27.5” in my size.  I like the smaller wheel for the exploration 
> riding I do. The Susie has more clearance and the tubes flex a lot to give 
> a nice ride. The Clem is stout and ready for anything. They are both such 
> great bikes, if they fit your bike needs. But, catch me on the right day 
> and a large gold Susie might be for sale!
>
> Anybody else excited to see the new Ronnie Romance aluminum (gasp!) ATB 
> bike? 27.5x2.6 capable rim brake adventure bike. Nice. 
> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 4:33:36 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The only conclusion (?) I can get from this tire discussion on Susie / 
>> Gus & possibly Clems is - get a duplicate set of wheels. One for pavement / 
>> gravel, and a dedicated set for MTB with proper knobbies. Anything less 
>> seems a compromise?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2022, at 12:14 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I’m running the Ehline 27.5 x 2.5 on my Gus currently. I had them on a 
>> previous bike that was a dedicated trail bike, and I liked them for that 
>> purpose a lot, so I knew what to expect. So far, I’m riding my Gus 50/50 
>> dirt/pavement and I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised at how well they 
>> roll on paved surfaces. Pretty quiet, too. I doubt I’m going to be doing 
>> any long paved rides, but for knocking around town and shorter paved trips 
>> 30 mi or less, they are quite enjoyable. 
>>
>> All this said, if Jan H. decided to make a tire slightly bigger than the 
>> Umtanum or Fleecer Ridge in the 2.5” / 2.6” range, I would buy them in an 
>> instant. Those RH knobbies perform equally well and roll fast and quiet on 
>> all surfaces in my opinion and experience.
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>
>> I’ll chime in on the Teravail Ehline vs the Ranger. Granted, I ran a 3” 
>> Ranger tough vs the Light 2.5 Ehline, but the Ranger was extremely slow in 
>> comparison. I haven’t tried the Vittoria, but I’ve heard they are great 
>> tires. That being said, when I need new tires they will likely be Rene 
>> Herse Fleecer Ridge endurance casing. They are fantastic all around tires, 
>> worth the extra $ in my experience. 
>>
>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 9:26:16 PM UTC-7 mkernan...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If we’re talking tires,  take a look at the Kenda Booster Pro.   It 
>>> comes in 29x 2.6 and 27.5x2.8 and both in 120 TPI with standard casing and 
>>> a more puncture resistant casing,  both tubeless ready.I have the 
>>> 29x2.2 version and they are a surprisingly fast and not buzzy on pavement 
>>> and very very grippy tire on gravel and single track.  I have them in the 
>>> standard casing and they feel really solid and don’t squirm with running 
>>> lower pressure.   
>>>
>>> A quick look at the tech specs and the claimed weights are very light 
>>> for a 29x2.6 tire( 681 +/-34 g for the standard casing and 763 +/- 38g for 
>>> the more puncture resistant casing.   Again,  I only have the 29x2.2 tires 
>>> so can’t speak of real world experience of the 29x 2.6 or 27.5x2.8 but if 
>>> the characteristics carry over,  it is a wonderfully fast and grippy tire
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Luke Hendrickson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I appreciate it. ❤️
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:45:47 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Luke,

 I'm so sorry for your loss. What a nice story behind your Atlantis. The 
 build is great but the story behind it makes it extra special. Thanks for 
 sharing it with us!

 On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:16 PM Luke Hendrickson <
 phendr...@paulpath.net> wrote:

> I appreciate the input on the sorta terrain you’re on with them. Since my 
> Riv  is my 
> do-it-all, I spend time on fire roads, single track, paved, and 
> everything 
> in between. The Maxxis tires currently on the bike are tough wearing and 
> durable. Supple is sorta down the list in desired qualities 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Brian Turner]

I am also running Motolites on my Gus (54cm) and have a full 1cm of clearance from the brake cable on the front, and 7mm on the rear. 27.5x2.5 Ehlines. With that tight of a tolerance, I’d probably need to consult with someone who has real experience with a particular tire / same brake setup before I tried anything larger.On Oct 31, 2022, at 10:31 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:Great looking Gus! The XR2 is a great tire. They were sold out everywhere when I picked up the Ehline or I’d gave probably gone for them. I’d love to have a full cm of rear clearance between my brake. With the 2.5 Ehline and a DXR I have 3mm tops with the rubber brake noodle in place. I have plenty of space up front but the rear is very tight. I was really hoping for a 2.8 to fit easily but I don’t think it will. If I have to go to a 2.2 to have proper mud clearance the bike starts to make less sense for me. On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 7:18:17 AM UTC-7 psc...@gmail.com wrote:Speaking of tires for Gus, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Bontrager XR2.  Having ridden most of Rene Herse's offerings on several different bikes, including Fleecer Ridge on a Clem L (I no longer own), I am really enjoying the XR2 which feels a like a bigger RH tire.  It is relatively light for a 2.6 tire and has the characteristics I was looking for.  Fast rolling 120 TPI and evenly spaced knobbies all the way around.  They are a great option for Gus.  They just fit under Paul motolites with about 10mm of clearance at the brake cable crossing point just above the center of the tire. I like the benefit of this tire more than the benefit of this particular brake, and with this tight clearance I am now considering 'downgrading' to longer/taller V-brakes.  



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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

Great looking Gus! The XR2 is a great tire. They were sold out everywhere 
when I picked up the Ehline or I’d gave probably gone for them. I’d love to 
have a full cm of rear clearance between my brake. With the 2.5 Ehline and 
a DXR I have 3mm tops with the rubber brake noodle in place. I have plenty 
of space up front but the rear is very tight. I was really hoping for a 2.8 
to fit easily but I don’t think it will. If I have to go to a 2.2 to have 
proper mud clearance the bike starts to make less sense for me. 

On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 7:18:17 AM UTC-7 psc...@gmail.com wrote:

> Speaking of tires for Gus, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Bontrager 
> XR2.  Having ridden most of Rene Herse's offerings on several different 
> bikes, including Fleecer Ridge on a Clem L (I no longer own), I am really 
> enjoying the XR2 which feels a like a bigger RH tire.  It is relatively 
> light for a 2.6 tire and has the characteristics I was looking for.  Fast 
> rolling 120 TPI and evenly spaced knobbies all the way around.  They are a 
> great option for Gus.  They just fit under Paul motolites with about 10mm 
> of clearance at the brake cable crossing point just above the center of the 
> tire. I like the benefit of this tire more than the benefit of this 
> particular brake, and with this tight clearance I am now considering 
> 'downgrading' to longer/taller V-brakes.  
>
> [image: gus.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

The only conclusion I can come up with is N+1. I thought, maybe I’ll just 
sell my Susie, I absolutely love my Clem H. Had to take the Clem apart for 
service, it’s getting a new fork and a full powder coat job. Tried to throw 
the 2.5 Ehline from my Susie in just to see. Honestly a bit tight for my 
comfort. The Susie has tons of tire clearance for mud side to side, I 
couldn’t get much more height because I’m within 3mm of the brake (rubber 
boot, without I guess a 2.8 would fit with similar room) in the rear. 

My Susie rides more lively and (likely the tire size) smooth. Unless I 
decide to have a custom frame made or go with something from Tanglefoot (71 
degree seat tube angle!), I can’t see selling the Susie. I just kinda wish 
it was 27.5” in my size.  I like the smaller wheel for the exploration 
riding I do. The Susie has more clearance and the tubes flex a lot to give 
a nice ride. The Clem is stout and ready for anything. They are both such 
great bikes, if they fit your bike needs. But, catch me on the right day 
and a large gold Susie might be for sale!

Anybody else excited to see the new Ronnie Romance aluminum (gasp!) ATB 
bike? 27.5x2.6 capable rim brake adventure bike. Nice. 
On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 4:33:36 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> The only conclusion (?) I can get from this tire discussion on Susie / Gus 
> & possibly Clems is - get a duplicate set of wheels. One for pavement / 
> gravel, and a dedicated set for MTB with proper knobbies. Anything less 
> seems a compromise?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 30, 2022, at 12:14 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I’m running the Ehline 27.5 x 2.5 on my Gus currently. I had them on a 
> previous bike that was a dedicated trail bike, and I liked them for that 
> purpose a lot, so I knew what to expect. So far, I’m riding my Gus 50/50 
> dirt/pavement and I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised at how well they 
> roll on paved surfaces. Pretty quiet, too. I doubt I’m going to be doing 
> any long paved rides, but for knocking around town and shorter paved trips 
> 30 mi or less, they are quite enjoyable. 
>
> All this said, if Jan H. decided to make a tire slightly bigger than the 
> Umtanum or Fleecer Ridge in the 2.5” / 2.6” range, I would buy them in an 
> instant. Those RH knobbies perform equally well and roll fast and quiet on 
> all surfaces in my opinion and experience.
>
> On Oct 30, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>
> I’ll chime in on the Teravail Ehline vs the Ranger. Granted, I ran a 3” 
> Ranger tough vs the Light 2.5 Ehline, but the Ranger was extremely slow in 
> comparison. I haven’t tried the Vittoria, but I’ve heard they are great 
> tires. That being said, when I need new tires they will likely be Rene 
> Herse Fleecer Ridge endurance casing. They are fantastic all around tires, 
> worth the extra $ in my experience. 
>
> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 9:26:16 PM UTC-7 mkernan...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> If we’re talking tires,  take a look at the Kenda Booster Pro.   It 
>> comes in 29x 2.6 and 27.5x2.8 and both in 120 TPI with standard casing and 
>> a more puncture resistant casing,  both tubeless ready.I have the 
>> 29x2.2 version and they are a surprisingly fast and not buzzy on pavement 
>> and very very grippy tire on gravel and single track.  I have them in the 
>> standard casing and they feel really solid and don’t squirm with running 
>> lower pressure.   
>>
>> A quick look at the tech specs and the claimed weights are very light for 
>> a 29x2.6 tire( 681 +/-34 g for the standard casing and 763 +/- 38g for the 
>> more puncture resistant casing.   Again,  I only have the 29x2.2 tires so 
>> can’t speak of real world experience of the 29x 2.6 or 27.5x2.8 but if the 
>> characteristics carry over,  it is a wonderfully fast and grippy tire
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Luke Hendrickson  
>> wrote:
>>
>> I appreciate it. ❤️
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:45:47 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Luke,
>>>
>>> I'm so sorry for your loss. What a nice story behind your Atlantis. The 
>>> build is great but the story behind it makes it extra special. Thanks for 
>>> sharing it with us!
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:16 PM Luke Hendrickson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I appreciate the input on the sorta terrain you’re on with them. Since my 
 Riv  is my 
 do-it-all, I spend time on fire roads, single track, paved, and everything 
 in between. The Maxxis tires currently on the bike are tough wearing and 
 durable. Supple is sorta down the list in desired qualities (although some 
 Ultradynamico tires may be in my near future).

 Thanks again, Paul.

 —Luke

 On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:

> The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only 
> come in the DD Raceguard 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

The only conclusion (?) I can get from this tire discussion on Susie / Gus & 
possibly Clems is - get a duplicate set of wheels. One for pavement / gravel, 
and a dedicated set for MTB with proper knobbies. Anything less seems a 
compromise?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 30, 2022, at 12:14 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
> 
> 
> I’m running the Ehline 27.5 x 2.5 on my Gus currently. I had them on a 
> previous bike that was a dedicated trail bike, and I liked them for that 
> purpose a lot, so I knew what to expect. So far, I’m riding my Gus 50/50 
> dirt/pavement and I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised at how well they 
> roll on paved surfaces. Pretty quiet, too. I doubt I’m going to be doing any 
> long paved rides, but for knocking around town and shorter paved trips 30 mi 
> or less, they are quite enjoyable. 
> 
> All this said, if Jan H. decided to make a tire slightly bigger than the 
> Umtanum or Fleecer Ridge in the 2.5” / 2.6” range, I would buy them in an 
> instant. Those RH knobbies perform equally well and roll fast and quiet on 
> all surfaces in my opinion and experience.
> 
>>> On Oct 30, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>> 
>> I’ll chime in on the Teravail Ehline vs the Ranger. Granted, I ran a 3” 
>> Ranger tough vs the Light 2.5 Ehline, but the Ranger was extremely slow in 
>> comparison. I haven’t tried the Vittoria, but I’ve heard they are great 
>> tires. That being said, when I need new tires they will likely be Rene Herse 
>> Fleecer Ridge endurance casing. They are fantastic all around tires, worth 
>> the extra $ in my experience. 
>> 
>>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 9:26:16 PM UTC-7 mkernan...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>> If we’re talking tires,  take a look at the Kenda Booster Pro.   It comes 
>>> in 29x 2.6 and 27.5x2.8 and both in 120 TPI with standard casing and a more 
>>> puncture resistant casing,  both tubeless ready.I have the 29x2.2 
>>> version and they are a surprisingly fast and not buzzy on pavement and very 
>>> very grippy tire on gravel and single track.  I have them in the standard 
>>> casing and they feel really solid and don’t squirm with running lower 
>>> pressure.   
>>> 
>>> A quick look at the tech specs and the claimed weights are very light for a 
>>> 29x2.6 tire( 681 +/-34 g for the standard casing and 763 +/- 38g for the 
>>> more puncture resistant casing.   Again,  I only have the 29x2.2 tires so 
>>> can’t speak of real world experience of the 29x 2.6 or 27.5x2.8 but if the 
>>> characteristics carry over,  it is a wonderfully fast and grippy tire
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Oct 29, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Luke Hendrickson  
> wrote:
> 
 I appreciate it. ❤️
>>> 
 
 
> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:45:47 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
> Luke,
> 
> I'm so sorry for your loss. What a nice story behind your Atlantis. The 
> build is great but the story behind it makes it extra special. Thanks for 
> sharing it with us!
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:16 PM Luke Hendrickson 
>>  wrote:
>> I appreciate the input on the sorta terrain you’re on with them. Since 
>> my Riv is my do-it-all, I spend time on fire roads, single track, paved, 
>> and everything in between. The Maxxis tires currently on the bike are 
>> tough wearing and durable. Supple is sorta down the list in desired 
>> qualities (although some Ultradynamico tires may be in my near future).
>> 
>> Thanks again, Paul.
>> 
>> —Luke
>> 
>>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:
>>> The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only 
>>> come in the DD Raceguard compound, which I don't think is the supplest. 
>>> 
>>> They're just really fat and a little hard to push on pavement. But they 
>>> are a lot of fun on the single track, and until I get them into some 
>>> real mud, I think they're all I need. Basically, they ride like a 
>>> really good touring tire, I think. Plenty comfortable, plenty capable, 
>>> plenty durable, but not especially supple or fast.
>>> 
>>> Of course, the air pressure can really impact how supple they feel, and 
>>> to a degree, change how boggy they feel.
>>> 
>>> I'd really like a 2.5" or 2.6" tire with a similar tread and a suppler 
>>> casing. The Scwalbe Big Ones were a chubby 60mm and they were my 
>>> favorite for a long time. They weren't quite enough on single track,  
>>> and the skinnier G Ones - 57mm - probably won't be either.
>>> 
>>> I really think these fat G-Ones do so well on the single track because 
>>> of their chub, not the tread. And I'm going to keep them on at least 
>>> long enough for me to ride them in the deep sand at the beach this 
>>> winter. I have a feeling they'll do even better than the Big Ones there.
>>> 
>>> If the WTB Ranger was available in 27.5 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

This is slightly / funny to me. A fatbike was my first experience with 1. A 
rigid MTB, and 2. Large volume tires. The experience convinced me that with 
large volume tires I could not only get by but really enjoy Rigid. Then plus 
tires hit & I bought a Marin Pine Mountain 1, a rigid steel MTB with 2.8“ x 
27.5” tires. It was a freaking blast & relatively cheap @ under $1k. This in 
turn got me hot for a Jones 29 - “THE” rigid MTB. This preceded the Jones 
“plus” bikes, but I ran it comfortably with 29” x 3” up front & 2.5” in the 
rear. That bike also was a ton of fun everywhere I rode it. It simply rolled 
over everything. 
But, I developed a little spinal stenosis eventually requiring (successful) 
surgery. My surgeon suggested I move to a full suspension bike. What could I 
do? Doctors orders!:)
So I found a good deal on a Ibis Mojo 3. The Jones became my everything else 
other than trail bike. But as such, I started to notice hand / wrist issues 
with the Jones loop bar as well as the 12 degree sweep bars on the Ibis. Enter 
(finally) my interest in the Clem. I reasoned that the upright, sweptback, long 
wheelbase with plush tires might be just the ticket to replace the Jones.
I was right!! It’s been superb & easily the most comfortable bike to ride I 
have ever owned. But what surprised me was / is how much fun it is on the 
trail. Thus my extreme interest in getting either a Susie / Gus to replace the 
full squish bike or, get a second set of wheels for the Clem to get some proper 
trail tires for dedicated trail use. With the long wheelbase the ride is such 
that I think I can live without suspension. I had thought plus bikes where all 
but dead, but I see this crowd still loved them. Susie / Gus; best plus bikes 
ever?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 30, 2022, at 12:45 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
> 
> I agree and would love to see a RH tire in a larger size. So many of us 
> would I imagine! I remember reading that Panaracer is not able to make a 
> larger tire for them so I don’t know if it will happen. A 2.6 version would 
> sell like hotcakes I think!
> 
>> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 9:14:20 AM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I’m running the Ehline 27.5 x 2.5 on my Gus currently. I had them on a 
>> previous bike that was a dedicated trail bike, and I liked them for that 
>> purpose a lot, so I knew what to expect. So far, I’m riding my Gus 50/50 
>> dirt/pavement and I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised at how well they 
>> roll on paved surfaces. Pretty quiet, too. I doubt I’m going to be doing any 
>> long paved rides, but for knocking around town and shorter paved trips 30 mi 
>> or less, they are quite enjoyable. 
>> 
>> All this said, if Jan H. decided to make a tire slightly bigger than the 
>> Umtanum or Fleecer Ridge in the 2.5” / 2.6” range, I would buy them in an 
>> instant. Those RH knobbies perform equally well and roll fast and quiet on 
>> all surfaces in my opinion and experience.
>> 
 On Oct 30, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
 
>>> I’ll chime in on the Teravail Ehline vs the Ranger. Granted, I ran a 3” 
>>> Ranger tough vs the Light 2.5 Ehline, but the Ranger was extremely slow in 
>>> comparison. I haven’t tried the Vittoria, but I’ve heard they are great 
>>> tires. That being said, when I need new tires they will likely be Rene 
>>> Herse Fleecer Ridge endurance casing. They are fantastic all around tires, 
>>> worth the extra $ in my experience. 
>> 
>>> 
 On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 9:26:16 PM UTC-7 mkernan...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 If we’re talking tires,  take a look at the Kenda Booster Pro.   It comes 
 in 29x 2.6 and 27.5x2.8 and both in 120 TPI with standard casing and a 
 more puncture resistant casing,  both tubeless ready.I have the 29x2.2 
 version and they are a surprisingly fast and not buzzy on pavement and 
 very very grippy tire on gravel and single track.  I have them in the 
 standard casing and they feel really solid and don’t squirm with running 
 lower pressure.   
 
 A quick look at the tech specs and the claimed weights are very light for 
 a 29x2.6 tire( 681 +/-34 g for the standard casing and 763 +/- 38g for the 
 more puncture resistant casing.   Again,  I only have the 29x2.2 tires so 
 can’t speak of real world experience of the 29x 2.6 or 27.5x2.8 but if the 
 characteristics carry over,  it is a wonderfully fast and grippy tire
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>> On Oct 29, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Luke Hendrickson  
>> wrote:
>> 
> I appreciate it. ❤️
 
> 
> 
>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:45:47 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>> Luke,
>> 
>> I'm so sorry for your loss. What a nice story behind your Atlantis. The 
>> build is great but the story behind it makes it extra special. Thanks 
>> for sharing it with us!
>> 
>>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:16 PM Luke Hendrickson 
>>>  

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

I agree and would love to see a RH tire in a larger size. So many of us 
would I imagine! I remember reading that Panaracer is not able to make a 
larger tire for them so I don’t know if it will happen. A 2.6 version would 
sell like hotcakes I think!

On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 9:14:20 AM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’m running the Ehline 27.5 x 2.5 on my Gus currently. I had them on a 
> previous bike that was a dedicated trail bike, and I liked them for that 
> purpose a lot, so I knew what to expect. So far, I’m riding my Gus 50/50 
> dirt/pavement and I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised at how well they 
> roll on paved surfaces. Pretty quiet, too. I doubt I’m going to be doing 
> any long paved rides, but for knocking around town and shorter paved trips 
> 30 mi or less, they are quite enjoyable. 
>
> All this said, if Jan H. decided to make a tire slightly bigger than the 
> Umtanum or Fleecer Ridge in the 2.5” / 2.6” range, I would buy them in an 
> instant. Those RH knobbies perform equally well and roll fast and quiet on 
> all surfaces in my opinion and experience.
>
> On Oct 30, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>
> I’ll chime in on the Teravail Ehline vs the Ranger. Granted, I ran a 3” 
> Ranger tough vs the Light 2.5 Ehline, but the Ranger was extremely slow in 
> comparison. I haven’t tried the Vittoria, but I’ve heard they are great 
> tires. That being said, when I need new tires they will likely be Rene 
> Herse Fleecer Ridge endurance casing. They are fantastic all around tires, 
> worth the extra $ in my experience. 
>
>
> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 9:26:16 PM UTC-7 mkernan...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> If we’re talking tires,  take a look at the Kenda Booster Pro.   It 
>> comes in 29x 2.6 and 27.5x2.8 and both in 120 TPI with standard casing and 
>> a more puncture resistant casing,  both tubeless ready.I have the 
>> 29x2.2 version and they are a surprisingly fast and not buzzy on pavement 
>> and very very grippy tire on gravel and single track.  I have them in the 
>> standard casing and they feel really solid and don’t squirm with running 
>> lower pressure.   
>>
>> A quick look at the tech specs and the claimed weights are very light for 
>> a 29x2.6 tire( 681 +/-34 g for the standard casing and 763 +/- 38g for the 
>> more puncture resistant casing.   Again,  I only have the 29x2.2 tires so 
>> can’t speak of real world experience of the 29x 2.6 or 27.5x2.8 but if the 
>> characteristics carry over,  it is a wonderfully fast and grippy tire
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Luke Hendrickson  
>> wrote:
>>
>> I appreciate it. ❤️
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:45:47 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Luke,
>>>
>>> I'm so sorry for your loss. What a nice story behind your Atlantis. The 
>>> build is great but the story behind it makes it extra special. Thanks for 
>>> sharing it with us!
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:16 PM Luke Hendrickson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I appreciate the input on the sorta terrain you’re on with them. Since my 
 Riv  is my 
 do-it-all, I spend time on fire roads, single track, paved, and everything 
 in between. The Maxxis tires currently on the bike are tough wearing and 
 durable. Supple is sorta down the list in desired qualities (although some 
 Ultradynamico tires may be in my near future).

 Thanks again, Paul.

 —Luke

 On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:

> The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only 
> come in the DD Raceguard compound, which I don't think is the supplest. 
>
> They're just really fat and a little hard to push on pavement. But 
> they are a lot of fun on the single track, and until I get them into some 
> real mud, I think they're all I need. Basically, they ride like a really 
> good touring tire, I think. Plenty comfortable, plenty capable, plenty 
> durable, but not especially supple or fast.
>
> Of course, the air pressure can really impact how supple they feel, 
> and to a degree, change how boggy they feel.
>
> I'd really like a 2.5" or 2.6" tire with a similar tread and a suppler 
> casing. The Scwalbe Big Ones were a chubby 60mm and they were my favorite 
> for a long time. They weren't quite enough on single track,  and the 
> skinnier G Ones - 57mm - probably won't be either.
>
> I really think these fat G-Ones do so well on the single track because 
> of their chub, not the tread. And I'm going to keep them on at least long 
> enough for me to ride them in the deep sand at the beach this winter. I 
> have a feeling they'll do even better than the Big Ones there.
>
> If the WTB Ranger was available in 27.5 right now, I'd give that a 
> try. I hear good things about the Teravail Ehline 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Brian Turner]

I’m running the Ehline 27.5 x 2.5 on my Gus currently. I had them on a previous bike that was a dedicated trail bike, and I liked them for that purpose a lot, so I knew what to expect. So far, I’m riding my Gus 50/50 dirt/pavement and I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised at how well they roll on paved surfaces. Pretty quiet, too. I doubt I’m going to be doing any long paved rides, but for knocking around town and shorter paved trips 30 mi or less, they are quite enjoyable. All this said, if Jan H. decided to make a tire slightly bigger than the Umtanum or Fleecer Ridge in the 2.5” / 2.6” range, I would buy them in an instant. Those RH knobbies perform equally well and roll fast and quiet on all surfaces in my opinion and experience.On Oct 30, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:I’ll chime in on the Teravail Ehline vs the Ranger. Granted, I ran a 3” Ranger tough vs the Light 2.5 Ehline, but the Ranger was extremely slow in comparison. I haven’t tried the Vittoria, but I’ve heard they are great tires. That being said, when I need new tires they will likely be Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge endurance casing. They are fantastic all around tires, worth the extra $ in my experience. On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 9:26:16 PM UTC-7 mkernan...@gmail.com wrote:If we’re talking tires,  take a look at the Kenda Booster Pro.   It comes in 29x 2.6 and 27.5x2.8 and both in 120 TPI with standard casing and a more puncture resistant casing,  both tubeless ready.    I have the 29x2.2 version and they are a surprisingly fast and not buzzy on pavement and very very grippy tire on gravel and single track.  I have them in the standard casing and they feel really solid and don’t squirm with running lower pressure.   A quick look at the tech specs and the claimed weights are very light for a 29x2.6 tire( 681 +/-34 g for the standard casing and 763 +/- 38g for the more puncture resistant casing.   Again,  I only have the 29x2.2 tires so can’t speak of real world experience of the 29x 2.6 or 27.5x2.8 but if the characteristics carry over,  it is a wonderfully fast and grippy tireSent from my iPhoneOn Oct 29, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Luke Hendrickson  wrote:I appreciate it. ❤️On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:45:47 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com wrote:Luke,I'm so sorry for your loss. What a nice story behind your Atlantis. The build is great but the story behind it makes it extra special. Thanks for sharing it with us!On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:16 PM Luke Hendrickson  wrote:I appreciate the input on the sorta terrain you’re on with them. Since my Riv is my do-it-all, I spend time on fire roads, single track, paved, and everything in between. The Maxxis tires currently on the bike are tough wearing and durable. Supple is sorta down the list in desired qualities (although some Ultradynamico tires may be in my near future).Thanks again, Paul.—LukeOn Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only come in the DD Raceguard compound, which I don't think is the supplest. They're just really fat and a little hard to push on pavement. But they are a lot of fun on the single track, and until I get them into some real mud, I think they're all I need. Basically, they ride like a really good touring tire, I think. Plenty comfortable, plenty capable, plenty durable, but not especially supple or fast.Of course, the air pressure can really impact how supple they feel, and to a degree, change how boggy they feel.I'd really like a 2.5" or 2.6" tire with a similar tread and a suppler casing. The Scwalbe Big Ones were a chubby 60mm and they were my favorite for a long time. They weren't quite enough on single track,  and the skinnier G Ones - 57mm - probably won't be either.I really think these fat G-Ones do so well on the single track because of their chub, not the tread. And I'm going to keep them on at least long enough for me to ride them in the deep sand at the beach this winter. I have a feeling they'll do even better than the Big Ones there.If the WTB Ranger was available in 27.5 right now, I'd give that a try. I hear good things about the Teravail Ehline in 27.5 x 2.5, but it has a more aggressive tread than I want for riding on pavement.So for an all around bike that sees 50% single track and 50% pavement, I think these are about as good as it gets.PaulOn Friday, October 28, 2022 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:Paul – great info and analysis. How’re you liking the Schwalbes? I’m tempted by them. On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from another Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26" version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but still capable of riding black / double black trails. I 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

I’ll chime in on the Teravail Ehline vs the Ranger. Granted, I ran a 3” 
Ranger tough vs the Light 2.5 Ehline, but the Ranger was extremely slow in 
comparison. I haven’t tried the Vittoria, but I’ve heard they are great 
tires. That being said, when I need new tires they will likely be Rene 
Herse Fleecer Ridge endurance casing. They are fantastic all around tires, 
worth the extra $ in my experience. 

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 9:26:16 PM UTC-7 mkernan...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> If we’re talking tires,  take a look at the Kenda Booster Pro.   It comes 
> in 29x 2.6 and 27.5x2.8 and both in 120 TPI with standard casing and a more 
> puncture resistant casing,  both tubeless ready.I have the 29x2.2 
> version and they are a surprisingly fast and not buzzy on pavement and very 
> very grippy tire on gravel and single track.  I have them in the standard 
> casing and they feel really solid and don’t squirm with running lower 
> pressure.   
>
> A quick look at the tech specs and the claimed weights are very light for 
> a 29x2.6 tire( 681 +/-34 g for the standard casing and 763 +/- 38g for the 
> more puncture resistant casing.   Again,  I only have the 29x2.2 tires so 
> can’t speak of real world experience of the 29x 2.6 or 27.5x2.8 but if the 
> characteristics carry over,  it is a wonderfully fast and grippy tire
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 29, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Luke Hendrickson  
> wrote:
>
> I appreciate it. ❤️
>
>
>
> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:45:47 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Luke,
>>
>> I'm so sorry for your loss. What a nice story behind your Atlantis. The 
>> build is great but the story behind it makes it extra special. Thanks for 
>> sharing it with us!
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:16 PM Luke Hendrickson  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I appreciate the input on the sorta terrain you’re on with them. Since my 
>>> Riv  is my 
>>> do-it-all, I spend time on fire roads, single track, paved, and everything 
>>> in between. The Maxxis tires currently on the bike are tough wearing and 
>>> durable. Supple is sorta down the list in desired qualities (although some 
>>> Ultradynamico tires may be in my near future).
>>>
>>> Thanks again, Paul.
>>>
>>> —Luke
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:
>>>
 The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only 
 come in the DD Raceguard compound, which I don't think is the supplest. 

 They're just really fat and a little hard to push on pavement. But they 
 are a lot of fun on the single track, and until I get them into some real 
 mud, I think they're all I need. Basically, they ride like a really good 
 touring tire, I think. Plenty comfortable, plenty capable, plenty durable, 
 but not especially supple or fast.

 Of course, the air pressure can really impact how supple they feel, and 
 to a degree, change how boggy they feel.

 I'd really like a 2.5" or 2.6" tire with a similar tread and a suppler 
 casing. The Scwalbe Big Ones were a chubby 60mm and they were my favorite 
 for a long time. They weren't quite enough on single track,  and the 
 skinnier G Ones - 57mm - probably won't be either.

 I really think these fat G-Ones do so well on the single track because 
 of their chub, not the tread. And I'm going to keep them on at least long 
 enough for me to ride them in the deep sand at the beach this winter. I 
 have a feeling they'll do even better than the Big Ones there.

 If the WTB Ranger was available in 27.5 right now, I'd give that a try. 
 I hear good things about the Teravail Ehline in 27.5 x 2.5, but it has a 
 more aggressive tread than I want for riding on pavement.

 So for an all around bike that sees 50% single track and 50% pavement, 
 I think these are about as good as it gets.

 Paul

 On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> Paul – great info and analysis. How’re you liking the Schwalbes? I’m 
> tempted by them. 
>
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from 
>> another Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 
>> 26" 
>> version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it 
>> with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but 
>> still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love 
>> the 
>> way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued 
>> quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good 
>> things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm 
>> tasked 
>> with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect to 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Michael Williams]

If we’re talking tires,  take a look at the Kenda Booster Pro.   It comes in 
29x 2.6 and 27.5x2.8 and both in 120 TPI with standard casing and a more 
puncture resistant casing,  both tubeless ready.I have the 29x2.2 version 
and they are a surprisingly fast and not buzzy on pavement and very very grippy 
tire on gravel and single track.  I have them in the standard casing and they 
feel really solid and don’t squirm with running lower pressure.   

A quick look at the tech specs and the claimed weights are very light for a 
29x2.6 tire( 681 +/-34 g for the standard casing and 763 +/- 38g for the more 
puncture resistant casing.   Again,  I only have the 29x2.2 tires so can’t 
speak of real world experience of the 29x 2.6 or 27.5x2.8 but if the 
characteristics carry over,  it is a wonderfully fast and grippy tire

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Luke Hendrickson  
> wrote:
> I appreciate it. ❤️
> 
> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:45:47 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Luke,
>> 
>> I'm so sorry for your loss. What a nice story behind your Atlantis. The 
>> build is great but the story behind it makes it extra special. Thanks for 
>> sharing it with us!
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:16 PM Luke Hendrickson  
>> wrote:
>>> I appreciate the input on the sorta terrain you’re on with them. Since my 
>>> Riv is my do-it-all, I spend time on fire roads, single track, paved, and 
>>> everything in between. The Maxxis tires currently on the bike are tough 
>>> wearing and durable. Supple is sorta down the list in desired qualities 
>>> (although some Ultradynamico tires may be in my near future).
>>> 
>>> Thanks again, Paul.
>>> 
>>> —Luke
>>> 
>>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:
 The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only come 
 in the DD Raceguard compound, which I don't think is the supplest. 
 
 They're just really fat and a little hard to push on pavement. But they 
 are a lot of fun on the single track, and until I get them into some real 
 mud, I think they're all I need. Basically, they ride like a really good 
 touring tire, I think. Plenty comfortable, plenty capable, plenty durable, 
 but not especially supple or fast.
 
 Of course, the air pressure can really impact how supple they feel, and to 
 a degree, change how boggy they feel.
 
 I'd really like a 2.5" or 2.6" tire with a similar tread and a suppler 
 casing. The Scwalbe Big Ones were a chubby 60mm and they were my favorite 
 for a long time. They weren't quite enough on single track,  and the 
 skinnier G Ones - 57mm - probably won't be either.
 
 I really think these fat G-Ones do so well on the single track because of 
 their chub, not the tread. And I'm going to keep them on at least long 
 enough for me to ride them in the deep sand at the beach this winter. I 
 have a feeling they'll do even better than the Big Ones there.
 
 If the WTB Ranger was available in 27.5 right now, I'd give that a try. I 
 hear good things about the Teravail Ehline in 27.5 x 2.5, but it has a 
 more aggressive tread than I want for riding on pavement.
 
 So for an all around bike that sees 50% single track and 50% pavement, I 
 think these are about as good as it gets.
 
 Paul
 
 On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
> Paul – great info and analysis. How’re you liking the Schwalbes? I’m 
> tempted by them. 
> 
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>> Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from another 
>> Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26" 
>> version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it 
>> with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but 
>> still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love 
>> the way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get 
>> fatigued quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's 
>> all good things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but 
>> I'm tasked with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect 
>> to walk, which is healthy. I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up 
>> a Stooge mk6 when they come out next year to replace the Japhy, and put 
>> myself back in the realm of fully rigid steel bikes across the board. 
>> 
>> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the 
>>> last to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long 
>>> stem and backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it 
>>> makes the bike feel / handle are pretty much my 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Luke Hendrickson]

I appreciate it. ❤️

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:45:47 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com wrote:

> Luke,
>
> I'm so sorry for your loss. What a nice story behind your Atlantis. The 
> build is great but the story behind it makes it extra special. Thanks for 
> sharing it with us!
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:16 PM Luke Hendrickson  
> wrote:
>
>> I appreciate the input on the sorta terrain you’re on with them. Since my 
>> Riv  is my 
>> do-it-all, I spend time on fire roads, single track, paved, and everything 
>> in between. The Maxxis tires currently on the bike are tough wearing and 
>> durable. Supple is sorta down the list in desired qualities (although some 
>> Ultradynamico tires may be in my near future).
>>
>> Thanks again, Paul.
>>
>> —Luke
>>
>> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:
>>
>>> The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only 
>>> come in the DD Raceguard compound, which I don't think is the supplest. 
>>>
>>> They're just really fat and a little hard to push on pavement. But they 
>>> are a lot of fun on the single track, and until I get them into some real 
>>> mud, I think they're all I need. Basically, they ride like a really good 
>>> touring tire, I think. Plenty comfortable, plenty capable, plenty durable, 
>>> but not especially supple or fast.
>>>
>>> Of course, the air pressure can really impact how supple they feel, and 
>>> to a degree, change how boggy they feel.
>>>
>>> I'd really like a 2.5" or 2.6" tire with a similar tread and a suppler 
>>> casing. The Scwalbe Big Ones were a chubby 60mm and they were my favorite 
>>> for a long time. They weren't quite enough on single track,  and the 
>>> skinnier G Ones - 57mm - probably won't be either.
>>>
>>> I really think these fat G-Ones do so well on the single track because 
>>> of their chub, not the tread. And I'm going to keep them on at least long 
>>> enough for me to ride them in the deep sand at the beach this winter. I 
>>> have a feeling they'll do even better than the Big Ones there.
>>>
>>> If the WTB Ranger was available in 27.5 right now, I'd give that a try. 
>>> I hear good things about the Teravail Ehline in 27.5 x 2.5, but it has a 
>>> more aggressive tread than I want for riding on pavement.
>>>
>>> So for an all around bike that sees 50% single track and 50% pavement, I 
>>> think these are about as good as it gets.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>>
 Paul – great info and analysis. How’re you liking the Schwalbes? I’m 
 tempted by them. 

 On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from 
> another Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 
> 26" 
> version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it 
> with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but 
> still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love 
> the 
> way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued 
> quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good 
> things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm tasked 
> with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect to walk, 
> which 
> is healthy. I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up a Stooge mk6 
> when 
> they come out next year to replace the Japhy, and put myself back in the 
> realm of fully rigid steel bikes across the board. 
>
> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the 
>> last to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long 
>> stem 
>> and backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes 
>> the 
>> bike feel / handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a 
>> Susie. 
>> I know it goes against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am 
>> looking to get away from straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12 
>> degree backsweep bar for a 35 degree one. Feels better but does not feel 
>> as 
>> good as the Clem.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT 
>> Susie-Gus vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on 
>> Susie/Gus 
>> than Clem of similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even 
>> with a 
>> very short stem flat-ish bars are too far away. 
>>
>> mike
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Joe Mullins]

Luke,

I'm so sorry for your loss. What a nice story behind your Atlantis. The
build is great but the story behind it makes it extra special. Thanks for
sharing it with us!

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:16 PM Luke Hendrickson 
wrote:

> I appreciate the input on the sorta terrain you’re on with them. Since my
> Riv  is my do-it-all,
> I spend time on fire roads, single track, paved, and everything in between.
> The Maxxis tires currently on the bike are tough wearing and durable.
> Supple is sorta down the list in desired qualities (although some
> Ultradynamico tires may be in my near future).
>
> Thanks again, Paul.
>
> —Luke
>
> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:
>
>> The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only come
>> in the DD Raceguard compound, which I don't think is the supplest.
>>
>> They're just really fat and a little hard to push on pavement. But they
>> are a lot of fun on the single track, and until I get them into some real
>> mud, I think they're all I need. Basically, they ride like a really good
>> touring tire, I think. Plenty comfortable, plenty capable, plenty durable,
>> but not especially supple or fast.
>>
>> Of course, the air pressure can really impact how supple they feel, and
>> to a degree, change how boggy they feel.
>>
>> I'd really like a 2.5" or 2.6" tire with a similar tread and a suppler
>> casing. The Scwalbe Big Ones were a chubby 60mm and they were my favorite
>> for a long time. They weren't quite enough on single track,  and the
>> skinnier G Ones - 57mm - probably won't be either.
>>
>> I really think these fat G-Ones do so well on the single track because of
>> their chub, not the tread. And I'm going to keep them on at least long
>> enough for me to ride them in the deep sand at the beach this winter. I
>> have a feeling they'll do even better than the Big Ones there.
>>
>> If the WTB Ranger was available in 27.5 right now, I'd give that a try. I
>> hear good things about the Teravail Ehline in 27.5 x 2.5, but it has a more
>> aggressive tread than I want for riding on pavement.
>>
>> So for an all around bike that sees 50% single track and 50% pavement, I
>> think these are about as good as it gets.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>
>>> Paul – great info and analysis. How’re you liking the Schwalbes? I’m
>>> tempted by them.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from
 another Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26"
 version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it
 with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but
 still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love the
 way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued
 quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good
 things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm tasked
 with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect to walk, which
 is healthy. I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up a Stooge mk6 when
 they come out next year to replace the Japhy, and put myself back in the
 realm of fully rigid steel bikes across the board.

 On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the
> last to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long stem
> and backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes 
> the
> bike feel / handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a Susie.
> I know it goes against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am
> looking to get away from straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12
> degree backsweep bar for a 35 degree one. Feels better but does not feel 
> as
> good as the Clem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT
> Susie-Gus vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on Susie/Gus
> than Clem of similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even with 
> a
> very short stem flat-ish bars are too far away.
>
> mike
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the
>> updates about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a
>> Susie and a Clem L?

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[J]

Paul-
Regarding the tires you've mentioned having and considering I have ridden 
most. WTB Ranger 27.5x2.8" came stock on a hard tail a few years ago. They 
were a fantastic mate to the WTB wheels and stayed sealed for I don't know 
how long after the sealant had long dried up riding mostly MTB single track 
and desert track. They were great for pretty much everything on the East 
coast and PNW, but in the desert I decided I need some more sidewall tread 
tooth. I would consider them quite supply for MTB use. I switched to the 
G-Ones for an extended weekend tour with a fair bit of road on route, and 
found them no better rolling than the ranger, fairly grippy on hardpack 
single track and pretty awful on anyhting loose or wet. I switched back to 
the Ranger within a month. I bought a 2nd hand pair of wheels that came 
with 2.6" Vittoria Mezcals that I'd planned to just toss in the parts bin 
due to ugliness but they had a bit more tooth than the Rangers so I threw 
them on the hardtail for some extra grip in the AZ desert and on the first 
ride was blown away at how fast they were on the pavement for the miles 
leading to the trail head. I was faster on the a hardtail riding 27.5x2.6" 
tires than I was on my drop bar all road riding 650bx47mm tires, every time 
I tested the results. The Mezcals actually measure 2.8 on the WTB i40 rims. 
They are the fastest MTB tires I've ever used, and hold sealant great, 
fairly supple. Ugly, but fast. 

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 9:02:36 PM UTC-4 Paul Clifton wrote:

> The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only come 
> in the DD Raceguard compound, which I don't think is the supplest. 
>
> They're just really fat and a little hard to push on pavement. But they 
> are a lot of fun on the single track, and until I get them into some real 
> mud, I think they're all I need. Basically, they ride like a really good 
> touring tire, I think. Plenty comfortable, plenty capable, plenty durable, 
> but not especially supple or fast.
>
> Of course, the air pressure can really impact how supple they feel, and to 
> a degree, change how boggy they feel.
>
> I'd really like a 2.5" or 2.6" tire with a similar tread and a suppler 
> casing. The Scwalbe Big Ones were a chubby 60mm and they were my favorite 
> for a long time. They weren't quite enough on single track,  and the 
> skinnier G Ones - 57mm - probably won't be either.
>
> I really think these fat G-Ones do so well on the single track because of 
> their chub, not the tread. And I'm going to keep them on at least long 
> enough for me to ride them in the deep sand at the beach this winter. I 
> have a feeling they'll do even better than the Big Ones there.
>
> If the WTB Ranger was available in 27.5 right now, I'd give that a try. I 
> hear good things about the Teravail Ehline in 27.5 x 2.5, but it has a more 
> aggressive tread than I want for riding on pavement.
>
> So for an all around bike that sees 50% single track and 50% pavement, I 
> think these are about as good as it gets.
>
> Paul
>
> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>
>> Paul – great info and analysis. How’re you liking the Schwalbes? I’m 
>> tempted by them. 
>>
>> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from another 
>>> Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26" 
>>> version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it 
>>> with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but 
>>> still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love the 
>>> way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued 
>>> quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good 
>>> things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm tasked 
>>> with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect to walk, which 
>>> is healthy. I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up a Stooge mk6 when 
>>> they come out next year to replace the Japhy, and put myself back in the 
>>> realm of fully rigid steel bikes across the board. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the 
 last to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long stem 
 and backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes 
 the 
 bike feel / handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a Susie. 
 I know it goes against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am 
 looking to get away from straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12 
 degree backsweep bar for a 35 degree one. Feels better but does not feel 
 as 
 good as the Clem.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Luke Hendrickson]

I appreciate the input on the sorta terrain you’re on with them. Since my 
Riv  is my do-it-all, I 
spend time on fire roads, single track, paved, and everything in between. 
The Maxxis tires currently on the bike are tough wearing and durable. 
Supple is sorta down the list in desired qualities (although some 
Ultradynamico tires may be in my near future).

Thanks again, Paul.

—Luke

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 6:02:36 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:

> The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only come 
> in the DD Raceguard compound, which I don't think is the supplest. 
>
> They're just really fat and a little hard to push on pavement. But they 
> are a lot of fun on the single track, and until I get them into some real 
> mud, I think they're all I need. Basically, they ride like a really good 
> touring tire, I think. Plenty comfortable, plenty capable, plenty durable, 
> but not especially supple or fast.
>
> Of course, the air pressure can really impact how supple they feel, and to 
> a degree, change how boggy they feel.
>
> I'd really like a 2.5" or 2.6" tire with a similar tread and a suppler 
> casing. The Scwalbe Big Ones were a chubby 60mm and they were my favorite 
> for a long time. They weren't quite enough on single track,  and the 
> skinnier G Ones - 57mm - probably won't be either.
>
> I really think these fat G-Ones do so well on the single track because of 
> their chub, not the tread. And I'm going to keep them on at least long 
> enough for me to ride them in the deep sand at the beach this winter. I 
> have a feeling they'll do even better than the Big Ones there.
>
> If the WTB Ranger was available in 27.5 right now, I'd give that a try. I 
> hear good things about the Teravail Ehline in 27.5 x 2.5, but it has a more 
> aggressive tread than I want for riding on pavement.
>
> So for an all around bike that sees 50% single track and 50% pavement, I 
> think these are about as good as it gets.
>
> Paul
>
> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>
>> Paul – great info and analysis. How’re you liking the Schwalbes? I’m 
>> tempted by them. 
>>
>> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from another 
>>> Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26" 
>>> version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it 
>>> with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but 
>>> still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love the 
>>> way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued 
>>> quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good 
>>> things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm tasked 
>>> with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect to walk, which 
>>> is healthy. I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up a Stooge mk6 when 
>>> they come out next year to replace the Japhy, and put myself back in the 
>>> realm of fully rigid steel bikes across the board. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the 
 last to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long stem 
 and backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes 
 the 
 bike feel / handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a Susie. 
 I know it goes against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am 
 looking to get away from straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12 
 degree backsweep bar for a 35 degree one. Feels better but does not feel 
 as 
 good as the Clem.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:

 

 I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT 
 Susie-Gus vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on Susie/Gus 
 than Clem of similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even with 
 a 
 very short stem flat-ish bars are too far away. 

 mike

 On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a 
> Susie and a Clem L?
> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on 
> the 
> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a 
> full 
> suspension bike with relatively 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Paul Clifton]

The 2.8" G-Ones are OK. Not great. Definitely not bad. The 2.8s only come 
in the DD Raceguard compound, which I don't think is the supplest. 

They're just really fat and a little hard to push on pavement. But they are 
a lot of fun on the single track, and until I get them into some real mud, 
I think they're all I need. Basically, they ride like a really good touring 
tire, I think. Plenty comfortable, plenty capable, plenty durable, but not 
especially supple or fast.

Of course, the air pressure can really impact how supple they feel, and to 
a degree, change how boggy they feel.

I'd really like a 2.5" or 2.6" tire with a similar tread and a suppler 
casing. The Scwalbe Big Ones were a chubby 60mm and they were my favorite 
for a long time. They weren't quite enough on single track,  and the 
skinnier G Ones - 57mm - probably won't be either.

I really think these fat G-Ones do so well on the single track because of 
their chub, not the tread. And I'm going to keep them on at least long 
enough for me to ride them in the deep sand at the beach this winter. I 
have a feeling they'll do even better than the Big Ones there.

If the WTB Ranger was available in 27.5 right now, I'd give that a try. I 
hear good things about the Teravail Ehline in 27.5 x 2.5, but it has a more 
aggressive tread than I want for riding on pavement.

So for an all around bike that sees 50% single track and 50% pavement, I 
think these are about as good as it gets.

Paul

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> Paul – great info and analysis. How’re you liking the Schwalbes? I’m 
> tempted by them. 
>
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from another 
>> Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26" 
>> version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it 
>> with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but 
>> still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love the 
>> way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued 
>> quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good 
>> things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm tasked 
>> with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect to walk, which 
>> is healthy. I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up a Stooge mk6 when 
>> they come out next year to replace the Japhy, and put myself back in the 
>> realm of fully rigid steel bikes across the board. 
>>
>> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the 
>>> last to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long stem 
>>> and backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes the 
>>> bike feel / handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a Susie. 
>>> I know it goes against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am 
>>> looking to get away from straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12 
>>> degree backsweep bar for a 35 degree one. Feels better but does not feel as 
>>> good as the Clem.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT 
>>> Susie-Gus vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on Susie/Gus 
>>> than Clem of similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even with a 
>>> very short stem flat-ish bars are too far away. 
>>>
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
 about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
 Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
 Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a 
 Susie and a Clem L?
 My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
 comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on 
 the 
 bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
 suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
 off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
 me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
 like to ride on the full squish bike.
 Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and 
 capable on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some 
 experience riding a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. 
 The notion of a bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem 
 but 
 dedicated to singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
 Appreciate any 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Luke Hendrickson]

Paul – great info and analysis. How’re you liking the Schwalbes? I’m 
tempted by them. 

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from another 
> Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26" 
> version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it 
> with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but 
> still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love the 
> way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued 
> quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good 
> things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm tasked 
> with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect to walk, which 
> is healthy. I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up a Stooge mk6 when 
> they come out next year to replace the Japhy, and put myself back in the 
> realm of fully rigid steel bikes across the board. 
>
> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the last 
>> to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long stem and 
>> backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes the 
>> bike feel / handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a Susie. 
>> I know it goes against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am 
>> looking to get away from straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12 
>> degree backsweep bar for a 35 degree one. Feels better but does not feel as 
>> good as the Clem.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT 
>> Susie-Gus vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on Susie/Gus 
>> than Clem of similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even with a 
>> very short stem flat-ish bars are too far away. 
>>
>> mike
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
>>> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
>>> and a Clem L?
>>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
>>> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the 
>>> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
>>> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
>>> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
>>> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
>>> like to ride on the full squish bike.
>>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable 
>>> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding 
>>> a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a 
>>> bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Nick Shoemaker]

Just went full Hilli with my Clem, replacing some 2.25 G-One Allrounds with 
a 2.6 Mezcal (actual 2.55) in back and a 2.6 Nobby Nic (actual 2.4) in the 
front. Might as well be a new bike - can’t say enough good things about the 
Clem! Rode some technical singletrack today and had a blast! Some 
observations that may be helpful to others thinking of going full MTB with 
their Hillies:

-Clutch derailleur is going on asap! Dropped my chain thrice on chunky 
decents. In this context I think clutch easily trumps rapidrise

-Clem BB is lower than I’m used to (coming from FS 26”), even with the big 
2.6 tires. Not a showstopper, but had more pedal strikes than I’m used to.

-Alba/dirt drop combo was surprisingly great; no slippage to report, but I 
will probably tilt them down a bit next time to take some pressure off my 
wrists; I’m going to try Soma Ospreys next, but the swept back position 
combined with the long chainstays was incredibly confidence-inspiring. I 
let loose on a downhill jump line and the bike never came close to bucking 
me or forcing me airborne. Was still able to book it :)

-Big tires fit! The Mezcal 2.6 is huge. Probably too big for the rear 
(maybe), but it doesn’t rub on my Cliffhanger with a tube. No chain rub 
either using the new Riv 7s cassette. The Schwalbe 2.6 is way smaller, 
seems par for the course with Schwalbes though. Don’t give up on your Clem 
until you’ve maxed out the tires and dropped the pressure to 20ish or less!



On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:13:50 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Paul, just re-reading your post & looking at the pics. The G-Ones? Is that 
> your tire of choice for the trails you ride? I expected something more 
> aggressive but I bet they roll fast?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 20, 2022, at 11:43 AM, Paul Clifton  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I ride my Gus as my primary mountain bike. I have ridden a Rosco Bebe, and 
> MTBubbe, a Jones and a full suspension Knolly Warden on the same trails for 
> several years. All of then except for the Jones use 27.5 wheels: max tire 
> sizes = MTBubbe and Rosco Bebe 2.35", Jones 29x3", Knolly 2.5", Gus 2.8". I 
> didn't measure those, that's the nominal size of tire I run on them.
>
> Of them all, the Gus is my favorite for everything short of black diamond 
> downhill. I also don't jump or drop anymore (or for the time being) so on 
> blue/black flow trails, I brake over the table tops and roll around the 
> gaps.
>
> The Rosco Bebe and MTBubbe are similar to a Clem L in a lot of ways. The 
> Bebe has shorter chainstays, a 68 degree seat tube, and a longer effective 
> top tube, so it requires Bosco bars. The MTBubbe is a relatively short bike 
> in terms of modern Rivs, and it's extremely agile, yet stable. Like an old 
> school MTB but without the endo potential and twitchy handling. They are 
> both totally capable of handling all trails, and I've even ridden plenty of 
> black downhill trails on the MTBubbe with the seat lowered a bit, and I've 
> take a few good sized drops on it. It's all around just a really good 
> mountain bike. It's super agile and feels like riding a skateboard 
> sometimes, because it's so small. It fits me; it's just a little bike and I 
> love it.
>
> The Jones basically just rolls over anything without question. The huge 
> wheels really change the way I approach the trails. Which leads me to my 
> first big point
>
>- What size Gus/Susie would you get? *wheel size*
>
> 29er wheels vs 27.5 is a legitimate concern when thinking about a mountain 
> bike. I know I like 27.5 wheels better, but a lot of modern trails assume 
> you're riding a 29x2.5 to 29x2.8 tire and the size of the rocks and rollers 
> is engineered with that in mind. And bigger wheels just roll over more 
> stuff easier. For me, it's easy to let the Jones (and Knolly) get out of 
> control on descents, and on the Jones, it's harder to reign it in, because 
> the wheels just keep going. That's a rider thing, but my fat 27.5 Gus rolls 
> over everything, just without being completely unphased. It experiences the 
> bumps more, and therefore, so do it.
>
> My second big comment is about *dropper posts *- I would also like to 
> have a dropper post on my Gus, but I don't actually think it matters much. 
> I still like the Gus more than my Jones or Knolly that both have them. When 
> I get to the trail, I lower my seat about 2 cm and usually just leave it 
> that way. Short of really gnarly downhill stuff (and I do mean really 
> gnarly), I'm able to get my butt back far enough to handle it. I just 
> bought a QR seat post bolt, so that should make my life even easier.
>
> Which brings me to my third point: *handlebars*
> Riv put Boscos on the Gus and Susy. That makes for a great upright riding 
> position, but IME, they are bad for mountain biking. They hit my legs when 
> I go around switch backs and the wrist angle makes it hard to hang on 
> properly when I'm getting my butt back to go down steep stuff. I 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Igor]

I still want a susie or gus, again, but also find that I have a suspension 
fork and a carbon wheelset laying around that wouldn't work on either, ha! 
and I own two Stooge bikes...
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 10:22:44 PM UTC-4 jcbrya...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm right there with you, Garth. The best way for me to estimate fit is to 
> compare stack/reach and other frame dimensions to any of my current bikes 
> that fit me well. I also wish Rivendell would be more forthcoming with that 
> information. I get that they're trying to make things easier/simpler by 
> reducing it all down to PBH and PBH alone, but that doesn't quite do it for 
> a lot of us. I'm sure there's a reason they've taken down all their 
> geometry and stopped posting frame specs altogether but your guess is as 
> good as mine. I don't need them to go full bicycle quarterly but it'd be 
> nice to get some more details.
>
> Similarly, I have the same feeling about upright riding positions. I feel 
> much more stable on a bicycle with more weight over the front wheel. Maybe 
> it's just what I'm used to but I feel unstable and sluggish with all of my 
> weight over the rear of the bike. Maybe I'd have a better experience on a 
> long-wheelbase Riv that's designed around that position, but like you, I'm 
> perfectly happy hammering away in a somewhat-race-y position on my 
> somewhat-race-y bikes. For now, at least.
>
> Despite this, I still love looking at all the beautiful upright Rivs that 
> have been posted lately. The Platypus has some really attractive lines and 
> I've been enamored with the Susie/Gus frames ever since they came out. I 
> reckon I will reconsider my riding position someday, especially if I hang 
> onto the notion that I'd like it better on the right bike. Who knows, maybe 
> I'll end up with a Gus or a Platypus if my curiosity gets the best of me.
>
> On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>
>> ((( Laughing ))  I hate it when anyone asks "what's your pbh ?" It's 
>> like asking "what's your sign ?" As if it means what ... ? 
>> Going by crotch height alone totally ignores/assumes what frame reach 
>> someone may want/need. If you're a everyday cyclist it's very helpful to 
>> teach yourself about these things. Posting the frame stack and reach is 
>> very helpful, but the guys @Riv don't make it easily known. Bike fitters 
>> and formulas are all geared certain "outputs" that go along with their 
>> biased "inputs".  If you don't like their answers, it's better to do it 
>> yourself as no one knows you better. You can get creative and think outside 
>> the boxes of cycling "conventions"(like crank length for example), which 
>> largely go unchallenged by most. 
>>
>> Now, if I didn't know exactly the dimensions of a frame I need I may have 
>> bought other stock Rivs and been sadly disappointed and sold them due to a 
>> too short of frame reach. I don't dig the high bar/upright "driving Miss 
>> Daisy" thing at all either. I tried it and found I liked much more forward 
>> leaning positions and bars no higher than the saddle, even with Albatross 
>> bars. I'm as flexible on the bike as I ever was and will put on some drop 
>> bars over the winter as that's a good time to mess with such things. I can 
>> still ride in a comfortable race-like position and have a "heads up" view. 
>> Having a strong core is most helpful. I'm thoroughly enjoying 
>> riding fast with the pedal to the metal this year. Just hammer and stop 
>> thinking ! Ahahahahah !  Hammer hammer hammer and when you're done 
>> hammering . hammer some more ! It's not about time or distance, it's 
>> about F U N ! Just let go of "I am so and so thus limited to so and so" , 
>> and BE the fun ! Life is inherently FUN !, lest there be LIFE at all .  I 
>> can drive like Miss Daisy in my pickup truck but I don't want to ride my 
>> bike like that !Hammer time, yipeee ! 
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[J.C. Bryant]

I'm right there with you, Garth. The best way for me to estimate fit is to 
compare stack/reach and other frame dimensions to any of my current bikes 
that fit me well. I also wish Rivendell would be more forthcoming with that 
information. I get that they're trying to make things easier/simpler by 
reducing it all down to PBH and PBH alone, but that doesn't quite do it for 
a lot of us. I'm sure there's a reason they've taken down all their 
geometry and stopped posting frame specs altogether but your guess is as 
good as mine. I don't need them to go full bicycle quarterly but it'd be 
nice to get some more details.

Similarly, I have the same feeling about upright riding positions. I feel 
much more stable on a bicycle with more weight over the front wheel. Maybe 
it's just what I'm used to but I feel unstable and sluggish with all of my 
weight over the rear of the bike. Maybe I'd have a better experience on a 
long-wheelbase Riv that's designed around that position, but like you, I'm 
perfectly happy hammering away in a somewhat-race-y position on my 
somewhat-race-y bikes. For now, at least.

Despite this, I still love looking at all the beautiful upright Rivs that 
have been posted lately. The Platypus has some really attractive lines and 
I've been enamored with the Susie/Gus frames ever since they came out. I 
reckon I will reconsider my riding position someday, especially if I hang 
onto the notion that I'd like it better on the right bike. Who knows, maybe 
I'll end up with a Gus or a Platypus if my curiosity gets the best of me.

On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

> ((( Laughing ))  I hate it when anyone asks "what's your pbh ?" It's 
> like asking "what's your sign ?" As if it means what ... ? 
> Going by crotch height alone totally ignores/assumes what frame reach 
> someone may want/need. If you're a everyday cyclist it's very helpful to 
> teach yourself about these things. Posting the frame stack and reach is 
> very helpful, but the guys @Riv don't make it easily known. Bike fitters 
> and formulas are all geared certain "outputs" that go along with their 
> biased "inputs".  If you don't like their answers, it's better to do it 
> yourself as no one knows you better. You can get creative and think outside 
> the boxes of cycling "conventions"(like crank length for example), which 
> largely go unchallenged by most. 
>
> Now, if I didn't know exactly the dimensions of a frame I need I may have 
> bought other stock Rivs and been sadly disappointed and sold them due to a 
> too short of frame reach. I don't dig the high bar/upright "driving Miss 
> Daisy" thing at all either. I tried it and found I liked much more forward 
> leaning positions and bars no higher than the saddle, even with Albatross 
> bars. I'm as flexible on the bike as I ever was and will put on some drop 
> bars over the winter as that's a good time to mess with such things. I can 
> still ride in a comfortable race-like position and have a "heads up" view. 
> Having a strong core is most helpful. I'm thoroughly enjoying 
> riding fast with the pedal to the metal this year. Just hammer and stop 
> thinking ! Ahahahahah !  Hammer hammer hammer and when you're done 
> hammering . hammer some more ! It's not about time or distance, it's 
> about F U N ! Just let go of "I am so and so thus limited to so and so" , 
> and BE the fun ! Life is inherently FUN !, lest there be LIFE at all .  I 
> can drive like Miss Daisy in my pickup truck but I don't want to ride my 
> bike like that !Hammer time, yipeee ! 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Garth]

((( Laughing ))  I hate it when anyone asks "what's your pbh ?" It's 
like asking "what's your sign ?" As if it means what ... ? 
Going by crotch height alone totally ignores/assumes what frame reach 
someone may want/need. If you're a everyday cyclist it's very helpful to 
teach yourself about these things. Posting the frame stack and reach is 
very helpful, but the guys @Riv don't make it easily known. Bike fitters 
and formulas are all geared certain "outputs" that go along with their 
biased "inputs".  If you don't like their answers, it's better to do it 
yourself as no one knows you better. You can get creative and think outside 
the boxes of cycling "conventions"(like crank length for example), which 
largely go unchallenged by most. 

Now, if I didn't know exactly the dimensions of a frame I need I may have 
bought other stock Rivs and been sadly disappointed and sold them due to a 
too short of frame reach. I don't dig the high bar/upright "driving Miss 
Daisy" thing at all either. I tried it and found I liked much more forward 
leaning positions and bars no higher than the saddle, even with Albatross 
bars. I'm as flexible on the bike as I ever was and will put on some drop 
bars over the winter as that's a good time to mess with such things. I can 
still ride in a comfortable race-like position and have a "heads up" view. 
Having a strong core is most helpful. I'm thoroughly enjoying 
riding fast with the pedal to the metal this year. Just hammer and stop 
thinking ! Ahahahahah !  Hammer hammer hammer and when you're done 
hammering . hammer some more ! It's not about time or distance, it's 
about F U N ! Just let go of "I am so and so thus limited to so and so" , 
and BE the fun ! Life is inherently FUN !, lest there be LIFE at all .  I 
can drive like Miss Daisy in my pickup truck but I don't want to ride my 
bike like that !Hammer time, yipeee ! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Mackenzy Albright]

I think the PBH guideline is intended to be imperfect as are bodies. If one 
wanted exact physiological measurements you can goto a bike fitter and get 
exact measurements. With PBH it provides a wide margin of fit based on 
aesthetic preferences (or wheel size) within those margins as presented by 
Grant/Riv. I have an 89.5 give or take on the day (i have a crap neck and 
lower back and stiffness can definitely effect how I like my bike to fit) I 
can easily ride a 59 or 64 clem. I pretty well run a saddle height spindle 
to top of saddle 32.5" constantly. In terms of the chart I am exactly in 
the middle of the 59 as an ideal fit. I wouldn't size down as that is my 
aesthetic preference. I don't mind sizing up as I don't mind the look. As 
Grant has mentioned, with a step over the real limiting factor is the 
minimum post insertion. Even with the Clem Jr a few CM longer than the 
Clementine I can easily adjust fit with the stem and bar type. I also have 
them set up quite differently for different tasks. I've come to really 
appreciate the PBH as a guideline for fit vs any sort of "professional fit" 
guidelines. I have Ehlers danlos syndrome (crap ligaments) and often 
struggle to maintain aggressive positions for sustained periods. But I've 
found "riv fit" to be quite flexible and forgiving. I have really obsessed 
over fit in the past, but really have come to realize there is a large 
amount of flexibility if you're not a racer going for micro gains. 

@ frahm those Juan Martin bars look great! i am going to set my clem smith 
jr up with a similar bar and a shorty stem I think. Go chase some full 
squishy mtbs down the trails. 

On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 7:29:50 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: AC4E1E71-37BA-423D-B3B9-090C1C0160EB.jpeg]
>
>
>
> Thanks Paul! It’s just a small section of little trails close to home. 
> Spokane Valley, WA. Lots of fun lines to play around on. 
>
> I had these Crust Juan Martin bars on for a bit but switched back to the 
> Bosco. Ruptured a tendon climbing and using the brake has been tough. These 
> bars definitely make it a mountain bike instead of a cruiser! These are the 
> 720mm ones. After trying the wide 800mm bars for a while, narrower is just 
> easier and n my shoulders. 
>
>
> On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 6:45:30 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:
>
>> @frahm - Awesome shot. Looks like a fun trail. Where is that?
>>
>> @Jason - The Knolly is definitely a fun bike, but I consider moving to a 
>> hard tail all the time. I just don't get wild enough to take advantage of a 
>> full suspension bike. I kind of think i would still like to have a bike 
>> with some suspension in my stable. My shoulders are starting to feel the 
>> trail a little too much these days, but hopefully some strength and 
>> mobility work will sort that out. I definitely want to keep a bike around 
>> for the occasional trip to the downhill spots, so I'll prob always have 
>> something around with modern geo. 
>>
>> @rmrose
>> Handlebars - The bars I'm running definitely aren't straight, they just 
>> aren't anywhere near as swept back as the Bosco. Tumbleweed Pursuader 
>>  It's 
>> 50mm rise and 31 degree back sweep. It's also 800mm wide, which is too 
>> wide. I'm about to swap them for Velo Orange Seine bars, are narrower (750 
>> mm), have a little more sweep, and a little less rise. And I'll try Wavies 
>> after that, but I think 660mm wide is too narrow, and they may have too 
>> much sweep for my wrists ... We'll see. The main thing is that the Boscos, 
>> even with a 110mm stem, hit my knees going around switch backs. I love the 
>> upright position for cruising, but it just didn't work for trail riding. A 
>> shorter stem and wider bars does change the handling a bit - It's a little 
>> more responsive I'd say, so with the long stem and Boscos, the handling is 
>> a little mellower and the bike swoops a bit more.
>>
>> Tires - Yeah, G-one's are great! I've found that for me, aggressive tread 
>> is really only necessary when conditions get a little sloppy, and we got 
>> basically zero rain all summer, so I haven't needed it. We'll see what the 
>> fall brings, but we're not supposed to ride muddy trails either - but 
>> that's more like when the entire trail is just wet. When it rains two or 
>> three days a week, there are always muddy spots a day or two after it 
>> rains, but we've pretty much been cleared to ride at that point. Just not 
>> like the 24 hours after a solid storm. Anyway, the 2.8's G ones grip every 
>> bit of bone dry trail and rock I've thrown at them, and since I cruise on 
>> this bike too, I like running the smoothest tire that gets the job done. 
>> I'll prob try the Terravails eventually and I have some 57mm G one's to try 
>> out as well, but changing tubeless tires is a PITA so I might dig up some 
>> more wheels. My Knolly has pretty aggressive tires (Maxis Asegai in the 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Paul Clifton]

@frahm - Awesome shot. Looks like a fun trail. Where is that?

@Jason - The Knolly is definitely a fun bike, but I consider moving to a 
hard tail all the time. I just don't get wild enough to take advantage of a 
full suspension bike. I kind of think i would still like to have a bike 
with some suspension in my stable. My shoulders are starting to feel the 
trail a little too much these days, but hopefully some strength and 
mobility work will sort that out. I definitely want to keep a bike around 
for the occasional trip to the downhill spots, so I'll prob always have 
something around with modern geo. 

@rmrose
Handlebars - The bars I'm running definitely aren't straight, they just 
aren't anywhere near as swept back as the Bosco. Tumbleweed Pursuader 
 It's 
50mm rise and 31 degree back sweep. It's also 800mm wide, which is too 
wide. I'm about to swap them for Velo Orange Seine bars, are narrower (750 
mm), have a little more sweep, and a little less rise. And I'll try Wavies 
after that, but I think 660mm wide is too narrow, and they may have too 
much sweep for my wrists ... We'll see. The main thing is that the Boscos, 
even with a 110mm stem, hit my knees going around switch backs. I love the 
upright position for cruising, but it just didn't work for trail riding. A 
shorter stem and wider bars does change the handling a bit - It's a little 
more responsive I'd say, so with the long stem and Boscos, the handling is 
a little mellower and the bike swoops a bit more.

Tires - Yeah, G-one's are great! I've found that for me, aggressive tread 
is really only necessary when conditions get a little sloppy, and we got 
basically zero rain all summer, so I haven't needed it. We'll see what the 
fall brings, but we're not supposed to ride muddy trails either - but 
that's more like when the entire trail is just wet. When it rains two or 
three days a week, there are always muddy spots a day or two after it 
rains, but we've pretty much been cleared to ride at that point. Just not 
like the 24 hours after a solid storm. Anyway, the 2.8's G ones grip every 
bit of bone dry trail and rock I've thrown at them, and since I cruise on 
this bike too, I like running the smoothest tire that gets the job done. 
I'll prob try the Terravails eventually and I have some 57mm G one's to try 
out as well, but changing tubeless tires is a PITA so I might dig up some 
more wheels. My Knolly has pretty aggressive tires (Maxis Asegai in the 
front) and it really digs in to the soft stuff and grabs the slabs, but I 
haven't come close to washing out on the G Ones in the dry dirt or rocks at 
all.

Saddle Height - My saddle in those photos is at about 68cm. My PBH is like 
82cm, but I don't remember what shoes I was wearing when I measured it. My 
saddle height for path cruising is about 71cm, but, like I said, I drop it 
a couple CM for riding single track, and I don't always put it back up. For 
the medium Gus, my saddle height is just slightly too low to run a 
Carradice bag with a bagman rack, but it works great with a more typical 
rear rack. It's also a little too low to run a standard medium size 
BagsxBird saddle bag without a rack (I think).

Paul in AR

On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> This is why I think there are too many ways to screw up that measurement. 
> I am 5’10” and consistently measure PBH at or near 85-86. I have my saddles 
> at 72 across the board. I did have my saddles higher before moving to the 
> mid foot position.
> In any event, I sent an e mail to Antonio @ Riv to ask about the saddle 
> height on his Susie - 75.
> That settles it for me. If I get the opportunity to purchase a Susie / Gus 
> it will be the 53. Which is ok - I like 27.5 too!:)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 22, 2022, at 3:47 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I’m right there with you, Richard. I think PBH gets you in the ballpark, 
> but I always feel like a bit of an oddball whenever I read Rivendell talk 
> about how to figure it in relation to saddle height. 
>
> For example, I’m 5’8” with a 84cm PBH. However, my saddle height is 
> consistently 71-72cm across all my bikes, so I always feel like I’m riding 
> my saddles lower than I should be. But, if I raise them any higher, I get 
> knee pain immediately.
>
> On Oct 22, 2022, at 1:53 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:
>
> Paul, regarding your wheel size comments; what is your saddle height if I 
> may ask? I sometimes get a little frustrated by PBH measurements. There is 
> built in inaccuracy imho taking that measurement. Look at this pic of a Riv 
> staff bike. This is a size 56 with presumably 29” wheels. My best guess as 
> to my PBH would be 84. The owner of this bike is 85.5. If it were as simple 
> as that I might conclude that I should ride the 56 vs. the 53. BUT, if I 
> knew the saddle height of the pictured bike it would be more useful I 
> think. It is 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

Those numbers sound close enough in my world. I run 12 ish cm lower than my 
PBH and it feels perfect. I do ride in sandals all the time, flip flops a 
lot, so I think that has me slightly lower than recommended. At 10 cm less 
I have knee pain as well. 

On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 12:47:12 PM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’m right there with you, Richard. I think PBH gets you in the ballpark, 
> but I always feel like a bit of an oddball whenever I read Rivendell talk 
> about how to figure it in relation to saddle height. 
>
> For example, I’m 5’8” with a 84cm PBH. However, my saddle height is 
> consistently 71-72cm across all my bikes, so I always feel like I’m riding 
> my saddles lower than I should be. But, if I raise them any higher, I get 
> knee pain immediately.
>
> On Oct 22, 2022, at 1:53 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:
>
> Paul, regarding your wheel size comments; what is your saddle height if I 
> may ask? I sometimes get a little frustrated by PBH measurements. There is 
> built in inaccuracy imho taking that measurement. Look at this pic of a Riv 
> staff bike. This is a size 56 with presumably 29” wheels. My best guess as 
> to my PBH would be 84. The owner of this bike is 85.5. If it were as simple 
> as that I might conclude that I should ride the 56 vs. the 53. BUT, if I 
> knew the saddle height of the pictured bike it would be more useful I 
> think. It is complicated by the fact that I use a 2-3 cm lower saddle 
> height than a 84 PBH might suggest because I have adopted a mid foot pedal 
> position. I would love to know the saddle height of the pictured bike. Like 
> you, I like the 27.5 wheels and could probably make both sizes work.
>
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 20, 2022, at 11:43 AM, Paul Clifton  wrote:
>
> 
> I ride my Gus as my primary mountain bike. I have ridden a Rosco Bebe, and 
> MTBubbe, a Jones and a full suspension Knolly Warden on the same trails for 
> several years. All of then except for the Jones use 27.5 wheels: max tire 
> sizes = MTBubbe and Rosco Bebe 2.35", Jones 29x3", Knolly 2.5", Gus 2.8". I 
> didn't measure those, that's the nominal size of tire I run on them.
>
> Of them all, the Gus is my favorite for everything short of black diamond 
> downhill. I also don't jump or drop anymore (or for the time being) so on 
> blue/black flow trails, I brake over the table tops and roll around the 
> gaps.
>
> The Rosco Bebe and MTBubbe are similar to a Clem L in a lot of ways. The 
> Bebe has shorter chainstays, a 68 degree seat tube, and a longer effective 
> top tube, so it requires Bosco bars. The MTBubbe is a relatively short bike 
> in terms of modern Rivs, and it's extremely agile, yet stable. Like an old 
> school MTB but without the endo potential and twitchy handling. They are 
> both totally capable of handling all trails, and I've even ridden plenty of 
> black downhill trails on the MTBubbe with the seat lowered a bit, and I've 
> take a few good sized drops on it. It's all around just a really good 
> mountain bike. It's super agile and feels like riding a skateboard 
> sometimes, because it's so small. It fits me; it's just a little bike and I 
> love it.
>
> The Jones basically just rolls over anything without question. The huge 
> wheels really change the way I approach the trails. Which leads me to my 
> first big point
>
>- What size Gus/Susie would you get? *wheel size*
>
> 29er wheels vs 27.5 is a legitimate concern when thinking about a mountain 
> bike. I know I like 27.5 wheels better, but a lot of modern trails assume 
> you're riding a 29x2.5 to 29x2.8 tire and the size of the rocks and rollers 
> is engineered with that in mind. And bigger wheels just roll over more 
> stuff easier. For me, it's easy to let the Jones (and Knolly) get out of 
> control on descents, and on the Jones, it's harder to reign it in, because 
> the wheels just keep going. That's a rider thing, but my fat 27.5 Gus rolls 
> over everything, just without being completely unphased. It experiences the 
> bumps more, and therefore, so do it.
>
> My second big comment is about *dropper posts *- I would also like to 
> have a dropper post on my Gus, but I don't actually think it matters much. 
> I still like the Gus more than my Jones or Knolly that both have them. When 
> I get to the trail, I lower my seat about 2 cm and usually just leave it 
> that way. Short of really gnarly downhill stuff (and I do mean really 
> gnarly), I'm able to get my butt back far enough to handle it. I just 
> bought a QR seat post bolt, so that should make my life even easier.
>
> Which brings me to my third point: *handlebars*
> Riv put Boscos on the Gus and Susy. That makes for a great upright riding 
> position, but IME, they are bad for mountain biking. They hit my legs when 
> I go around switch backs and the wrist angle makes it hard to hang on 
> properly when I'm getting my butt back to go down steep stuff. I put a 35mm 
> stem and 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Brian Turner]

I’m right there with you, Richard. I think PBH gets you in the ballpark, but I always feel like a bit of an oddball whenever I read Rivendell talk about how to figure it in relation to saddle height. For example, I’m 5’8” with a 84cm PBH. However, my saddle height is consistently 71-72cm across all my bikes, so I always feel like I’m riding my saddles lower than I should be. But, if I raise them any higher, I get knee pain immediately.On Oct 22, 2022, at 1:53 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:Paul, regarding your wheel size comments; what is your saddle height if I may ask? I sometimes get a little frustrated by PBH measurements. There is built in inaccuracy imho taking that measurement. Look at this pic of a Riv staff bike. This is a size 56 with presumably 29” wheels. My best guess as to my PBH would be 84. The owner of this bike is 85.5. If it were as simple as that I might conclude that I should ride the 56 vs. the 53. BUT, if I knew the saddle height of the pictured bike it would be more useful I think. It is complicated by the fact that I use a 2-3 cm lower saddle height than a 84 PBH might suggest because I have adopted a mid foot pedal position. I would love to know the saddle height of the pictured bike. Like you, I like the 27.5 wheels and could probably make both sizes work.Sent from my iPhoneOn Oct 20, 2022, at 11:43 AM, Paul Clifton  wrote:I ride my Gus as my primary mountain bike. I have ridden a Rosco Bebe, and MTBubbe, a Jones and a full suspension Knolly Warden on the same trails for several years. All of then except for the Jones use 27.5 wheels: max tire sizes = MTBubbe and Rosco Bebe 2.35", Jones 29x3", Knolly 2.5", Gus 2.8". I didn't measure those, that's the nominal size of tire I run on them.Of them all, the Gus is my favorite for everything short of black diamond downhill. I also don't jump or drop anymore (or for the time being) so on blue/black flow trails, I brake over the table tops and roll around the gaps.The Rosco Bebe and MTBubbe are similar to a Clem L in a lot of ways. The Bebe has shorter chainstays, a 68 degree seat tube, and a longer effective top tube, so it requires Bosco bars. The MTBubbe is a relatively short bike in terms of modern Rivs, and it's extremely agile, yet stable. Like an old school MTB but without the endo potential and twitchy handling. They are both totally capable of handling all trails, and I've even ridden plenty of black downhill trails on the MTBubbe with the seat lowered a bit, and I've take a few good sized drops on it. It's all around just a really good mountain bike. It's super agile and feels like riding a skateboard sometimes, because it's so small. It fits me; it's just a little bike and I love it.The Jones basically just rolls over anything without question. The huge wheels really change the way I approach the trails. Which leads me to my first big pointWhat size Gus/Susie would you get? wheel size29er wheels vs 27.5 is a legitimate concern when thinking about a mountain bike. I know I like 27.5 wheels better, but a lot of modern trails assume you're riding a 29x2.5 to 29x2.8 tire and the size of the rocks and rollers is engineered with that in mind. And bigger wheels just roll over more stuff easier. For me, it's easy to let the Jones (and Knolly) get out of control on descents, and on the Jones, it's harder to reign it in, because the wheels just keep going. That's a rider thing, but my fat 27.5 Gus rolls over everything, just without being completely unphased. It experiences the bumps more, and therefore, so do it.My second big comment is about dropper posts - I would also like to have a dropper post on my Gus, but I don't actually think it matters much. I still like the Gus more than my Jones or Knolly that both have them. When I get to the trail, I lower my seat about 2 cm and usually just leave it that way. Short of really gnarly downhill stuff (and I do mean really gnarly), I'm able to get my butt back far enough to handle it. I just bought a QR seat post bolt, so that should make my life even easier.Which brings me to my third point: handlebarsRiv put Boscos on the Gus and Susy. That makes for a great upright riding position, but IME, they are bad for mountain biking. They hit my legs when I go around switch backs and the wrist angle makes it hard to hang on properly when I'm getting my butt back to go down steep stuff. I put a 35mm stem and Tumbleweed Pursuader bars on mine and it changed the ride for the better in nearly every possible way. The mostly straight bars still sometimes hit my legs on the sharpest downhill switch backs, but I think that's a me problem and not a bike problem (a dropper would prob help that though).Handling - The Gus handling is very responsive - like the best modern MTBs, it's really easy to change the direction of the front wheel, to quickly correct a line or keep it from flopping over when you hit a rock the wrong way. Unlike modern MTBs, it holds its line extremely well, on rough stuff AND when cruising. 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

Paul, just re-reading your post & looking at the pics. The G-Ones? Is that your 
tire of choice for the trails you ride? I expected something more aggressive 
but I bet they roll fast?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2022, at 11:43 AM, Paul Clifton  wrote:
> 
> 
> I ride my Gus as my primary mountain bike. I have ridden a Rosco Bebe, and 
> MTBubbe, a Jones and a full suspension Knolly Warden on the same trails for 
> several years. All of then except for the Jones use 27.5 wheels: max tire 
> sizes = MTBubbe and Rosco Bebe 2.35", Jones 29x3", Knolly 2.5", Gus 2.8". I 
> didn't measure those, that's the nominal size of tire I run on them.
> 
> Of them all, the Gus is my favorite for everything short of black diamond 
> downhill. I also don't jump or drop anymore (or for the time being) so on 
> blue/black flow trails, I brake over the table tops and roll around the gaps.
> 
> The Rosco Bebe and MTBubbe are similar to a Clem L in a lot of ways. The Bebe 
> has shorter chainstays, a 68 degree seat tube, and a longer effective top 
> tube, so it requires Bosco bars. The MTBubbe is a relatively short bike in 
> terms of modern Rivs, and it's extremely agile, yet stable. Like an old 
> school MTB but without the endo potential and twitchy handling. They are both 
> totally capable of handling all trails, and I've even ridden plenty of black 
> downhill trails on the MTBubbe with the seat lowered a bit, and I've take a 
> few good sized drops on it. It's all around just a really good mountain bike. 
> It's super agile and feels like riding a skateboard sometimes, because it's 
> so small. It fits me; it's just a little bike and I love it.
> 
> The Jones basically just rolls over anything without question. The huge 
> wheels really change the way I approach the trails. Which leads me to my 
> first big point
> What size Gus/Susie would you get? wheel size
> 29er wheels vs 27.5 is a legitimate concern when thinking about a mountain 
> bike. I know I like 27.5 wheels better, but a lot of modern trails assume 
> you're riding a 29x2.5 to 29x2.8 tire and the size of the rocks and rollers 
> is engineered with that in mind. And bigger wheels just roll over more stuff 
> easier. For me, it's easy to let the Jones (and Knolly) get out of control on 
> descents, and on the Jones, it's harder to reign it in, because the wheels 
> just keep going. That's a rider thing, but my fat 27.5 Gus rolls over 
> everything, just without being completely unphased. It experiences the bumps 
> more, and therefore, so do it.
> 
> My second big comment is about dropper posts - I would also like to have a 
> dropper post on my Gus, but I don't actually think it matters much. I still 
> like the Gus more than my Jones or Knolly that both have them. When I get to 
> the trail, I lower my seat about 2 cm and usually just leave it that way. 
> Short of really gnarly downhill stuff (and I do mean really gnarly), I'm able 
> to get my butt back far enough to handle it. I just bought a QR seat post 
> bolt, so that should make my life even easier.
> 
> Which brings me to my third point: handlebars
> Riv put Boscos on the Gus and Susy. That makes for a great upright riding 
> position, but IME, they are bad for mountain biking. They hit my legs when I 
> go around switch backs and the wrist angle makes it hard to hang on properly 
> when I'm getting my butt back to go down steep stuff. I put a 35mm stem and 
> Tumbleweed Pursuader bars on mine and it changed the ride for the better in 
> nearly every possible way. The mostly straight bars still sometimes hit my 
> legs on the sharpest downhill switch backs, but I think that's a me problem 
> and not a bike problem (a dropper would prob help that though).
> 
> Handling - The Gus handling is very responsive - like the best modern MTBs, 
> it's really easy to change the direction of the front wheel, to quickly 
> correct a line or keep it from flopping over when you hit a rock the wrong 
> way. Unlike modern MTBs, it holds its line extremely well, on rough stuff AND 
> when cruising. The length of the bike keeps it rolling smoothly, even when 
> the chunk tries to throw it around, so, unlike a full suspension modern MTB 
> with short chainstay and a steep seat tube, it's stable on more than just the 
> fast descents, ...
> 
> so there's Climbing - The Gus is the most fun I've had climbing on an MTB 
> ever. It is hard to get the front wheel up over ledges, but the back wheel is 
> always completely planted and when it grabs a rock, the pedals just keep it 
> rolling. Tubeless 27.5x2.8 tires just kind of squish into any surface and 
> push the bike on up. It's hard to describe, but it's really wonderful. As has 
> been mentioned, I also climb easier and faster on it than a lot of people on 
> modern MTBs around here, especially full squish, which I'm more and more 
> convinced gives up a lot in the climbing department.
> 
> I would absolutely choose my Gus for my single bike. The only reason I 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Joe Bernard]

I was reading a book a while back and tried to pinch the screen to zoom in. 
It was a real book. Paper. 

On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:32:42 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ha! Thanks. On a similar note, I use an iPad exclusively. My wife had 
> something on her laptop and I kept trying to scroll on the screen. Her 
> laptop does not do that…
>
> On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:25:13 AM UTC-7 Keith P. wrote:
>
>> I kept double tapping, trying to “like.”
>>
>> k.
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>
>> [image: BFA5A389-DD77-4A45-B579-DBF2F60C8BC2.jpeg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Because this thread needs some pictures. 
>> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from another 
>>> Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26" 
>>> version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it 
>>> with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but 
>>> still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love the 
>>> way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued 
>>> quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good 
>>> things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm tasked 
>>> with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect to walk, which 
>>> is healthy. I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up a Stooge mk6 when 
>>> they come out next year to replace the Japhy, and put myself back in the 
>>> realm of fully rigid steel bikes across the board. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the 
 last to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long stem 
 and backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes 
 the 
 bike feel / handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a Susie. 
 I know it goes against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am 
 looking to get away from straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12 
 degree backsweep bar for a 35 degree one. Feels better but does not feel 
 as 
 good as the Clem.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:

 

 I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT 
 Susie-Gus vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on Susie/Gus 
 than Clem of similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even with 
 a 
 very short stem flat-ish bars are too far away. 

 mike

 On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a 
> Susie and a Clem L?
> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on 
> the 
> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a 
> full 
> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really 
> good 
> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have 
> kept 
> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks 
> I 
> like to ride on the full squish bike.
> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and 
> capable on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some 
> experience riding a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. 
> The notion of a bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem 
> but 
> dedicated to singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>
> -- 
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 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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 .

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

Ha! Thanks. On a similar note, I use an iPad exclusively. My wife had 
something on her laptop and I kept trying to scroll on the screen. Her 
laptop does not do that…

On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 8:25:13 AM UTC-7 Keith P. wrote:

> I kept double tapping, trying to “like.”
>
> k.
>
> On Oct 21, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>
> [image: BFA5A389-DD77-4A45-B579-DBF2F60C8BC2.jpeg]
>
>
>
>
> Because this thread needs some pictures. 
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from another 
>> Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26" 
>> version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it 
>> with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but 
>> still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love the 
>> way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued 
>> quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good 
>> things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm tasked 
>> with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect to walk, which 
>> is healthy. I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up a Stooge mk6 when 
>> they come out next year to replace the Japhy, and put myself back in the 
>> realm of fully rigid steel bikes across the board. 
>>
>> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the 
>>> last to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long stem 
>>> and backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes the 
>>> bike feel / handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a Susie. 
>>> I know it goes against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am 
>>> looking to get away from straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12 
>>> degree backsweep bar for a 35 degree one. Feels better but does not feel as 
>>> good as the Clem.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT 
>>> Susie-Gus vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on Susie/Gus 
>>> than Clem of similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even with a 
>>> very short stem flat-ish bars are too far away. 
>>>
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
 about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
 Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
 Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a 
 Susie and a Clem L?
 My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
 comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on 
 the 
 bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
 suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
 off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
 me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
 like to ride on the full squish bike.
 Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and 
 capable on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some 
 experience riding a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. 
 The notion of a bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem 
 but 
 dedicated to singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
 Appreciate any comments / thoughts.

 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b917f76e-7f77-481b-b719-e63b4db2bc49n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3a3659b2-64e3-4968-8240-8cc010a0db6an%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
> [image: BFA5A389-DD77-4A45-B579-DBF2F60C8BC2.jpeg]
>
>

-- 
You 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Keith Paugh]

I kept double tapping, trying to “like.”

k.

> On Oct 21, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because this thread needs some pictures. 
>> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:42:12 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>> Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from another 
>> Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26" version) 
>> for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it with an 
>> Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but still 
>> capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love the way a 
>> hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued quicker on 
>> it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good things - I can 
>> still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm tasked with a little 
>> more care in my line choices and when to elect to walk, which is healthy. 
>> I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up a Stooge mk6 when they come 
>> out next year to replace the Japhy, and put myself back in the realm of 
>> fully rigid steel bikes across the board. 
>> 
>>> On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the last 
>>> to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long stem and 
>>> backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes the 
>>> bike feel / handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a Susie. 
>>> I know it goes against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am 
>>> looking to get away from straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12 
>>> degree backsweep bar for a 35 degree one. Feels better but does not feel as 
>>> good as the Clem.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:
> 
 
>>> 
 I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT Susie-Gus 
 vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on Susie/Gus than Clem 
 of similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even with a very 
 short stem flat-ish bars are too far away. 
 
 mike
 
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
>> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
>> and a Clem L?
>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
>> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on 
>> the bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - 
>> a full suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is 
>> really good off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and 
>> flexibility have kept me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock 
>> and root strewn tracks I like to ride on the full squish bike.
>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable 
>> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience 
>> riding a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The 
>> notion of a bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but 
>> dedicated to singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>> 
> 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> 
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b917f76e-7f77-481b-b719-e63b4db2bc49n%40googlegroups.com.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3a3659b2-64e3-4968-8240-8cc010a0db6an%40googlegroups.com.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Jason Fuller]

Yes good discussion! Paul, it's neat and surprising to hear from another 
Knolly rider here of all places - I rode a Chilcotin (the older 26" 
version) for a bunch of years!  Sold it about a year ago and replaced it 
with an Esker Japhy steel hardtail as a bike that was more my style, but 
still capable of riding black / double black trails. I absolutely love the 
way a hardtail climbs, and rides in general - I do find I get fatigued 
quicker on it vs. the full suspension bike, but otherwise it's all good 
things - I can still ride everything I ought to be riding, but I'm tasked 
with a little more care in my line choices and when to elect to walk, which 
is healthy. I'm fully committed to the plan of picking up a Stooge mk6 when 
they come out next year to replace the Japhy, and put myself back in the 
realm of fully rigid steel bikes across the board. 

On Thursday, 20 October 2022 at 15:24:26 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the last 
> to question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long stem and 
> backsweep of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes the 
> bike feel / handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a Susie. 
> I know it goes against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am 
> looking to get away from straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12 
> degree backsweep bar for a 35 degree one. Feels better but does not feel as 
> good as the Clem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT Susie-Gus 
> vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on Susie/Gus than Clem 
> of similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even with a very 
> short stem flat-ish bars are too far away. 
>
> mike
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
>> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
>> and a Clem L?
>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
>> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the 
>> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
>> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
>> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
>> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
>> like to ride on the full squish bike.
>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable 
>> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding 
>> a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a 
>> bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>>
>> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b917f76e-7f77-481b-b719-e63b4db2bc49n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

I wonder about this exactly. If something works for someone I am the last to 
question it. But, in my time off road with the Clem the long stem and backsweep 
of the Bosco are GOLD! This position and the way it makes the bike feel / 
handle are pretty much my only reason for considering a Susie. I know it goes 
against everything that says “mountain bike” but I am looking to get away from 
straight bars. Just today I swapped out a 12 degree backsweep bar for a 35 
degree one. Feels better but does not feel as good as the Clem.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Mike Packard  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT Susie-Gus 
> vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on Susie/Gus than Clem of 
> similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even with a very short 
> stem flat-ish bars are too far away. 
> 
> mike
> 
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates about 
>> additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie and 
>> a Clem L?
>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most comfortable 
>> bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the bike that I 
>> am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full suspension 
>> bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good off road and 
>> on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept me from giving 
>> it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I like to ride on 
>> the full squish bike.
>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable on 
>> these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding a 
>> rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a bike 
>> that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>> 
> 
> -- 
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Mike Packard]

I'm also enjoying this thread. One thing I've wondered about WRT Susie-Gus 
vs. Clem: Is the reach / effective top tube shorter on Susie/Gus than Clem 
of similar size? I have a 59 Clem L that is great but even with a very 
short stem flat-ish bars are too far away. 

mike

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
> and a Clem L?
> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the 
> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
> like to ride on the full squish bike.
> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable 
> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding 
> a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a 
> bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>
>

-- 
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[RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Paul Clifton]

I ride my Gus as my primary mountain bike. I have ridden a Rosco Bebe, and 
MTBubbe, a Jones and a full suspension Knolly Warden on the same trails for 
several years. All of then except for the Jones use 27.5 wheels: max tire 
sizes = MTBubbe and Rosco Bebe 2.35", Jones 29x3", Knolly 2.5", Gus 2.8". I 
didn't measure those, that's the nominal size of tire I run on them.

Of them all, the Gus is my favorite for everything short of black diamond 
downhill. I also don't jump or drop anymore (or for the time being) so on 
blue/black flow trails, I brake over the table tops and roll around the 
gaps.

The Rosco Bebe and MTBubbe are similar to a Clem L in a lot of ways. The 
Bebe has shorter chainstays, a 68 degree seat tube, and a longer effective 
top tube, so it requires Bosco bars. The MTBubbe is a relatively short bike 
in terms of modern Rivs, and it's extremely agile, yet stable. Like an old 
school MTB but without the endo potential and twitchy handling. They are 
both totally capable of handling all trails, and I've even ridden plenty of 
black downhill trails on the MTBubbe with the seat lowered a bit, and I've 
take a few good sized drops on it. It's all around just a really good 
mountain bike. It's super agile and feels like riding a skateboard 
sometimes, because it's so small. It fits me; it's just a little bike and I 
love it.

The Jones basically just rolls over anything without question. The huge 
wheels really change the way I approach the trails. Which leads me to my 
first big point

   - What size Gus/Susie would you get? *wheel size*
   
29er wheels vs 27.5 is a legitimate concern when thinking about a mountain 
bike. I know I like 27.5 wheels better, but a lot of modern trails assume 
you're riding a 29x2.5 to 29x2.8 tire and the size of the rocks and rollers 
is engineered with that in mind. And bigger wheels just roll over more 
stuff easier. For me, it's easy to let the Jones (and Knolly) get out of 
control on descents, and on the Jones, it's harder to reign it in, because 
the wheels just keep going. That's a rider thing, but my fat 27.5 Gus rolls 
over everything, just without being completely unphased. It experiences the 
bumps more, and therefore, so do it.

My second big comment is about *dropper posts *- I would also like to have 
a dropper post on my Gus, but I don't actually think it matters much. I 
still like the Gus more than my Jones or Knolly that both have them. When I 
get to the trail, I lower my seat about 2 cm and usually just leave it that 
way. Short of really gnarly downhill stuff (and I do mean really gnarly), 
I'm able to get my butt back far enough to handle it. I just bought a QR 
seat post bolt, so that should make my life even easier.

Which brings me to my third point: *handlebars*
Riv put Boscos on the Gus and Susy. That makes for a great upright riding 
position, but IME, they are bad for mountain biking. They hit my legs when 
I go around switch backs and the wrist angle makes it hard to hang on 
properly when I'm getting my butt back to go down steep stuff. I put a 35mm 
stem and Tumbleweed Pursuader bars on mine and it changed the ride for the 
better in nearly every possible way. The mostly straight bars still 
sometimes hit my legs on the sharpest downhill switch backs, but I think 
that's a me problem and not a bike problem (a dropper would prob help that 
though).

*Handling* - The Gus handling is very responsive - like the best modern 
MTBs, it's really easy to change the direction of the front wheel, to 
quickly correct a line or keep it from flopping over when you hit a rock 
the wrong way. Unlike modern MTBs, it holds its line extremely well, on 
rough stuff AND when cruising. The length of the bike keeps it rolling 
smoothly, even when the chunk tries to throw it around, so, unlike a full 
suspension modern MTB with short chainstay and a steep seat tube, it's 
stable on more than just the fast descents, ...

so there's *Climbing* - The Gus is the most fun I've had climbing on an MTB 
ever. It is hard to get the front wheel up over ledges, but the back wheel 
is always completely planted and when it grabs a rock, the pedals just keep 
it rolling. Tubeless 27.5x2.8 tires just kind of squish into any surface 
and push the bike on up. It's hard to describe, but it's really wonderful. 
As has been mentioned, I also climb easier and faster on it than a lot of 
people on modern MTBs around here, especially full squish, which I'm more 
and more convinced gives up a lot in the climbing department.

I would absolutely choose my Gus for my single bike. The only reason I 
haven't sold the Jones yet is that I want to get the Gus out on a 
singletrack bikepacking trip, just to see how it compares loaded. I'm sure 
it would make a great camping bike, especially on forest service roads, but 
I do wonder whether the 29er wheels on the Jones are better for loaded 
singletrack.

My only other comment is about *terrain*. As others have mentioned, where 
you 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Erik]

Ohh.  Yeah.  I talked to a machinist friend about that but got cold feet. 
 I was really worried about messing up something permanently.  I am clearly 
not adventurous enough! 

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 6:52:00 AM UTC-7 lconley wrote:

> I honed out my Bombadil with an automotive brake cylinder hone from 27.0 
> to 27.1+ before I took the plunge and got the reamer. Honing took a 
> loong time. It does have the advantage of not needing to go all the way 
> to 27.2 because most seatposts aren't a full 27.2.
>
> I did it so I could use a lugged Nitto seatpost - only available in 27.2. 
> Going to use the reamer on my 27.0 Guv'nor for the same reason.
>
> Laing
>
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:46:04 AM UTC-4 mcgr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I've thought about getting my 27.0 Hunq reamed to 27.2 for exactly this 
>> reason.  Maybe I should just do it already.
>>
>> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 8:50:56 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> Solution to putting 27.2 seat post into 26.8 seat tube:
>>>
>>> [image: Seat Tube Reamer s.jpg]
>>>
>>> Every 26.8 and 27.2 (and 27.0) ID seat tube that I have ever seen were 
>>> all the same 28.6 OD, so if you ride 27.2 droppers, reaming a 26.8 ID out 
>>> to 27.2 shouldn't bother you. You are only reducing the thickness by 0.008" 
>>> on the inside of the tube.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> -- 
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Erik]

1x11 works perfectly.  I had to get a fairly wide BB spindle to keep the 
chain off of the tire in the smallest gear, but it works beautifully.  I 
think I ended up running a 122.5 BB.The longer chain stays actually 
help mellow out the chain angle on the highest and lowest gears.  I’ve done 
this on my Atlantis in the past as well and have had no problems.

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 5:49:58 AM UTC-7 Richard Rose wrote:

> Interesting also that you are running 1 x 11? I guess I thought you needed 
> a boost frame for that? 
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Erik]

Not only do I have a quick release, I picked up an old Hite-Rite to go with 
it!  I salvaged the quick release from an old Bridgestone that’s been in my 
shed for a long time.  It’s certainly an option, but I did have problems 
with the post slipping.  Given that I’m not out charging around, stopping 
to set the seat height isn’t that onerous a task.  I have occasionally 
stopped and dropped the saddle with a hex key for longer descents.  Maybe 
I’m just overthinking the dropper post thing and need to embrace the quick 
release! 

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 5:16:13 AM UTC-7 mkernan...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hey Erik,   Sweet looking Gus!In reading your post it seems like your 
> missing a dropper option,   Have you considered putting on a quick release 
> at the seatpost binder bolt?   You said you’ve been riding many iterations 
> of MTBs since the 80s so I’m sure you’ve had a bike with one before.I 
> put one on my Atlantis and it’s great for dropping the seat post tool- free 
> when I want to get back a little.I think Riv might sell something on 
> their site.   It’s no dropper but it is helpful in some situations.   
>  -Mike  
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0CC5EF6D-3C23-402C-B55D-A09DBD7AC46B%40gmail.com
>  
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[lconley]

I honed out my Bombadil with an automotive brake cylinder hone from 27.0 to 
27.1+ before I took the plunge and got the reamer. Honing took a loong 
time. It does have the advantage of not needing to go all the way to 27.2 
because most seatposts aren't a full 27.2.

I did it so I could use a lugged Nitto seatpost - only available in 27.2. 
Going to use the reamer on my 27.0 Guv'nor for the same reason.

Laing

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 9:46:04 AM UTC-4 mcgr...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've thought about getting my 27.0 Hunq reamed to 27.2 for exactly this 
> reason.  Maybe I should just do it already.
>
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 8:50:56 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> Solution to putting 27.2 seat post into 26.8 seat tube:
>>
>> [image: Seat Tube Reamer s.jpg]
>>
>> Every 26.8 and 27.2 (and 27.0) ID seat tube that I have ever seen were 
>> all the same 28.6 OD, so if you ride 27.2 droppers, reaming a 26.8 ID out 
>> to 27.2 shouldn't bother you. You are only reducing the thickness by 0.008" 
>> on the inside of the tube.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 10:44:31 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Regarding my earlier comment - I know, and fully respect, that Grant 
>>> plans to never make a disc brake bike. Which is fine - sure, it limits 
>>> their function in certain scenarios, but I do really appreciate brands that 
>>> are willing to do what they want rather than follow market trends. It's 
>>> what makes Rene Herse, Jones, and others also worth cherishing even if you 
>>> don't necessarily feel the same way.  And I absolutely think that rim 
>>> brakes are just as good, if not better, than disc brakes for the majority 
>>> of riding that people do. 
>>>
>>> I think Hillibikes should be v-brake. If I want discs, I know where else 
>>> to look. It's great to have a V-brake option on the market! 
>>>
>>> It's more the seatpost size that really bugs me. I know it's a product 
>>> of the available seat clamp lug. Hopefully they will go 27.2 in the future 
>>> - then you can run a thudbuster, a dropper, or a regular seatpost. The 
>>> brake thing is a stylistic choice I respect, but the seatpost size is just 
>>> unfortunate.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 19:15:09 UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Thank you for the information.

 On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:22 AM 'Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch <
 rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Kim, that’s from 2021 — One year ago
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:59:27 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I know the deadline has come and passed. It does not indicate as to 
>> whether or not if this for the Clem Smith Jr. "H" or the "L" version. 
>> However, for information reasons:
>>
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/clem-lotto-tickets-on-sale-til-friday-the-15th?_pos=1&_sid=934df0537&_ss=r
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:02:12 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely. If I could pick one bike to do it all, I’d likely pick 
>>> up a Clem L frame. It crosses my mind often actually because I’ve 
>>> always 
>>> looked for the “one” bike to do it all. 
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:57:00 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 VERY interesting! 

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:

 

 I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully 
 appreciate this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable. 

 Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a 
 question about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.

 He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet 
 brazed (the Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The 
 Susie also fits a slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; 
 Susie 
 fit a 2.6. Other than that - they are similar!"

 Kim Hetzel
 Yelm, WA.



 On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it 
> as my mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike 
> in 
> quite a while. I did see the email that a second run was going to 
> happen. 
> It was supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I 
> got 
> didn’t show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, 
> no 
> mention of them for a while. 
>
> I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H 
> though. I love my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[James M]

I've thought about getting my 27.0 Hunq reamed to 27.2 for exactly this 
reason.  Maybe I should just do it already.

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 8:50:56 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> Solution to putting 27.2 seat post into 26.8 seat tube:
>
> [image: Seat Tube Reamer s.jpg]
>
> Every 26.8 and 27.2 (and 27.0) ID seat tube that I have ever seen were all 
> the same 28.6 OD, so if you ride 27.2 droppers, reaming a 26.8 ID out to 
> 27.2 shouldn't bother you. You are only reducing the thickness by 0.008" on 
> the inside of the tube.
>
> Laing
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 10:44:31 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Regarding my earlier comment - I know, and fully respect, that Grant 
>> plans to never make a disc brake bike. Which is fine - sure, it limits 
>> their function in certain scenarios, but I do really appreciate brands that 
>> are willing to do what they want rather than follow market trends. It's 
>> what makes Rene Herse, Jones, and others also worth cherishing even if you 
>> don't necessarily feel the same way.  And I absolutely think that rim 
>> brakes are just as good, if not better, than disc brakes for the majority 
>> of riding that people do. 
>>
>> I think Hillibikes should be v-brake. If I want discs, I know where else 
>> to look. It's great to have a V-brake option on the market! 
>>
>> It's more the seatpost size that really bugs me. I know it's a product of 
>> the available seat clamp lug. Hopefully they will go 27.2 in the future - 
>> then you can run a thudbuster, a dropper, or a regular seatpost. The brake 
>> thing is a stylistic choice I respect, but the seatpost size is just 
>> unfortunate.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 19:15:09 UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for the information.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:22 AM 'Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 Kim, that’s from 2021 — One year ago

 On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:59:27 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I know the deadline has come and passed. It does not indicate as to 
> whether or not if this for the Clem Smith Jr. "H" or the "L" version. 
> However, for information reasons:
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/clem-lotto-tickets-on-sale-til-friday-the-15th?_pos=1&_sid=934df0537&_ss=r
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:02:12 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Absolutely. If I could pick one bike to do it all, I’d likely pick up 
>> a Clem L frame. It crosses my mind often actually because I’ve always 
>> looked for the “one” bike to do it all. 
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:57:00 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> VERY interesting! 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully 
>>> appreciate this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable. 
>>>
>>> Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a 
>>> question about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.
>>>
>>> He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet 
>>> brazed (the Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The 
>>> Susie also fits a slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; 
>>> Susie 
>>> fit a 2.6. Other than that - they are similar!"
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it 
 as my mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in 
 quite a while. I did see the email that a second run was going to 
 happen. 
 It was supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I 
 got 
 didn’t show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, 
 no 
 mention of them for a while. 

 I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H 
 though. I love my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the 
 new 
 Clem L seems to be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as 
 head 
 tube angle and fork rake. 

 My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I 
 don’t think it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part 
 of 
 it. The extra height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the 
 chunky 
 stuff as well. The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring 
 forward 
 when I get on it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and 
 it is 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

Interesting also that you are running 1 x 11? I guess I thought you needed a 
boost frame for that? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2022, at 1:53 AM, Erik  wrote:
> 
> I’ve been running my Gus as my primary mountain bike for about six months 
> now and it does everything I want it to do and goes anywhere I want to go.  
> Some background: mountain biking has been my primary form of biking since my 
> teen years in the late 80s.  I started on rigid bikes, moved to front 
> suspension by the mid-nineties, but didn’t make the jump to full squish for 
> another ten years.  I recently sold off my last full suspension bike (Salsa 
> Horsethief) and used the proceeds to finance the Gus.  I turned 50 this year 
> and have realized that at this point in life that I don’t ride hard enough to 
> warrant the big suspension beasts.  I like to meander more than charge these 
> days and am happy to leave the in-air antics to the fitter and/or younger. 
> 
> On the Gus: I can ride it on any trail I rode on my FS bikes.  No problem.  
> It’s a bit slower downhill, but even better on climbs.  I run a large knobby 
> 2.6 up front and a 2.5 in the back, tubeless.  The squish of the big tires 
> makes all the difference and prevents too much bone and teeth rattling.  I 
> love the stability.  Love the handling, though it does have a bit of front 
> wheel flop that took some getting used to.  It climbs like a beast and I love 
> the comments from the hardcore riders out on the trails.  I regularly ride it 
> on the nasty, rocky, rutted trails at Upper Bidwell Park in Chico, CA, often 
> intermingling with the full-squish set on climbs but politely letting them go 
> first on downhills. The Paul Motolites work perfectly and I don’t miss discs 
> at all.  I have figured out how to set up these brakes to get the perfect 
> stopping power and modulation and have never had any problems with 
> controlling my bike.  
> 
> The ONLY thing I wish were different: I want a 27.2 seatpost clamp so I can 
> run a dropper.  I’m with Jason on this one.  I would like the option to move 
> the seat down for more technical descents where I need to lower my mass 
> toward the back wheel so I don’t go over the front.  Without a dropper, there 
> are some really steep, technical descents on my regular rides that I walk as 
> I can’t quite get the positioning I want.
> 
> Will posted some photos of my bike a while back: 
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/eriks-large-gus
> 
> It’s possible I’ll pick up another mountain bike at some point, perhaps one 
> with just front suspension, but that’s more about my problem with buying 
> bikes then it is about needing it for riding my local trails.  :-)
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Michael Williams]

Hey Erik,   Sweet looking Gus!In reading your post it seems like your 
missing a dropper option,   Have you considered putting on a quick release at 
the seatpost binder bolt?   You said you’ve been riding many iterations of MTBs 
since the 80s so I’m sure you’ve had a bike with one before.I put one on my 
Atlantis and it’s great for dropping the seat post tool- free when I want to 
get back a little.I think Riv might sell something on their site.   It’s no 
dropper but it is helpful in some situations.-Mike  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2022, at 4:57 AM, Richard Rose  wrote:
> 
> Your bike is beautiful! Your choice of handlebar is interesting. One reason 
> I am considering trading my suspended bike for a Susie is to get the exact 
> riding position that I have on the Clem but on a dedicated mtb. In my case 
> that means very high Bosco bars. The Clem is the only bike I own that does 
> not give me hand / wrist issues. I am trying swept back bars on the Ibis but 
> so far it’s not panning out.
> I rode rigid until age 65! Lower back surgery suggested to me that suspension 
> might be wise. It has worked well for me (dw link is for real) except for 
> this hand issue.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2022, at 1:53 AM, Erik  wrote:
>>> 
>> I’ve been running my Gus as my primary mountain bike for about six months 
>> now and it does everything I want it to do and goes anywhere I want to go.  
>> Some background: mountain biking has been my primary form of biking since my 
>> teen years in the late 80s.  I started on rigid bikes, moved to front 
>> suspension by the mid-nineties, but didn’t make the jump to full squish for 
>> another ten years.  I recently sold off my last full suspension bike (Salsa 
>> Horsethief) and used the proceeds to finance the Gus.  I turned 50 this year 
>> and have realized that at this point in life that I don’t ride hard enough 
>> to warrant the big suspension beasts.  I like to meander more than charge 
>> these days and am happy to leave the in-air antics to the fitter and/or 
>> younger. 
>> 
>> On the Gus: I can ride it on any trail I rode on my FS bikes.  No problem.  
>> It’s a bit slower downhill, but even better on climbs.  I run a large knobby 
>> 2.6 up front and a 2.5 in the back, tubeless.  The squish of the big tires 
>> makes all the difference and prevents too much bone and teeth rattling.  I 
>> love the stability.  Love the handling, though it does have a bit of front 
>> wheel flop that took some getting used to.  It climbs like a beast and I 
>> love the comments from the hardcore riders out on the trails.  I regularly 
>> ride it on the nasty, rocky, rutted trails at Upper Bidwell Park in Chico, 
>> CA, often intermingling with the full-squish set on climbs but politely 
>> letting them go first on downhills. The Paul Motolites work perfectly and I 
>> don’t miss discs at all.  I have figured out how to set up these brakes to 
>> get the perfect stopping power and modulation and have never had any 
>> problems with controlling my bike.  
>> 
>> The ONLY thing I wish were different: I want a 27.2 seatpost clamp so I can 
>> run a dropper.  I’m with Jason on this one.  I would like the option to move 
>> the seat down for more technical descents where I need to lower my mass 
>> toward the back wheel so I don’t go over the front.  Without a dropper, 
>> there are some really steep, technical descents on my regular rides that I 
>> walk as I can’t quite get the positioning I want.
>> 
>> Will posted some photos of my bike a while back: 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/eriks-large-gus
>> 
>> It’s possible I’ll pick up another mountain bike at some point, perhaps one 
>> with just front suspension, but that’s more about my problem with buying 
>> bikes then it is about needing it for riding my local trails.  :-)
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

Your bike is beautiful! Your choice of handlebar is interesting. One reason I 
am considering trading my suspended bike for a Susie is to get the exact riding 
position that I have on the Clem but on a dedicated mtb. In my case that means 
very high Bosco bars. The Clem is the only bike I own that does not give me 
hand / wrist issues. I am trying swept back bars on the Ibis but so far it’s 
not panning out.
I rode rigid until age 65! Lower back surgery suggested to me that suspension 
might be wise. It has worked well for me (dw link is for real) except for this 
hand issue.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2022, at 1:53 AM, Erik  wrote:
> 
> I’ve been running my Gus as my primary mountain bike for about six months 
> now and it does everything I want it to do and goes anywhere I want to go.  
> Some background: mountain biking has been my primary form of biking since my 
> teen years in the late 80s.  I started on rigid bikes, moved to front 
> suspension by the mid-nineties, but didn’t make the jump to full squish for 
> another ten years.  I recently sold off my last full suspension bike (Salsa 
> Horsethief) and used the proceeds to finance the Gus.  I turned 50 this year 
> and have realized that at this point in life that I don’t ride hard enough to 
> warrant the big suspension beasts.  I like to meander more than charge these 
> days and am happy to leave the in-air antics to the fitter and/or younger. 
> 
> On the Gus: I can ride it on any trail I rode on my FS bikes.  No problem.  
> It’s a bit slower downhill, but even better on climbs.  I run a large knobby 
> 2.6 up front and a 2.5 in the back, tubeless.  The squish of the big tires 
> makes all the difference and prevents too much bone and teeth rattling.  I 
> love the stability.  Love the handling, though it does have a bit of front 
> wheel flop that took some getting used to.  It climbs like a beast and I love 
> the comments from the hardcore riders out on the trails.  I regularly ride it 
> on the nasty, rocky, rutted trails at Upper Bidwell Park in Chico, CA, often 
> intermingling with the full-squish set on climbs but politely letting them go 
> first on downhills. The Paul Motolites work perfectly and I don’t miss discs 
> at all.  I have figured out how to set up these brakes to get the perfect 
> stopping power and modulation and have never had any problems with 
> controlling my bike.  
> 
> The ONLY thing I wish were different: I want a 27.2 seatpost clamp so I can 
> run a dropper.  I’m with Jason on this one.  I would like the option to move 
> the seat down for more technical descents where I need to lower my mass 
> toward the back wheel so I don’t go over the front.  Without a dropper, there 
> are some really steep, technical descents on my regular rides that I walk as 
> I can’t quite get the positioning I want.
> 
> Will posted some photos of my bike a while back: 
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/eriks-large-gus
> 
> It’s possible I’ll pick up another mountain bike at some point, perhaps one 
> with just front suspension, but that’s more about my problem with buying 
> bikes then it is about needing it for riding my local trails.  :-)
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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Erik]

I’ve been running my Gus as my primary mountain bike for about six months 
now and it does everything I want it to do and goes anywhere I want to go. 
 Some background: mountain biking has been my primary form of biking since 
my teen years in the late 80s.  I started on rigid bikes, moved to front 
suspension by the mid-nineties, but didn’t make the jump to full squish for 
another ten years.  I recently sold off my last full suspension bike (Salsa 
Horsethief) and used the proceeds to finance the Gus.  I turned 50 this 
year and have realized that at this point in life that I don’t ride hard 
enough to warrant the big suspension beasts.  I like to meander more than 
charge these days and am happy to leave the in-air antics to the fitter 
and/or younger. 

On the Gus: I can ride it on any trail I rode on my FS bikes.  No problem. 
 It’s a bit slower downhill, but even better on climbs.  I run a large 
knobby 2.6 up front and a 2.5 in the back, tubeless.  The squish of the big 
tires makes all the difference and prevents too much bone and teeth 
rattling.  I love the stability.  Love the handling, though it does have a 
bit of front wheel flop that took some getting used to.  It climbs like a 
beast and I love the comments from the hardcore riders out on the trails. 
 I regularly ride it on the nasty, rocky, rutted trails at Upper Bidwell 
Park in Chico, CA, often intermingling with the full-squish set on climbs 
but politely letting them go first on downhills. The Paul Motolites work 
perfectly and I don’t miss discs at all.  I have figured out how to set up 
these brakes to get the perfect stopping power and modulation and have 
never had any problems with controlling my bike.  

The ONLY thing I wish were different: I want a 27.2 seatpost clamp so I can 
run a dropper.  I’m with Jason on this one.  I would like the option to 
move the seat down for more technical descents where I need to lower my 
mass toward the back wheel so I don’t go over the front.  Without a 
dropper, there are some really steep, technical descents on my regular 
rides that I walk as I can’t quite get the positioning I want.

Will posted some photos of my bike a while 
back: https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/eriks-large-gus

It’s possible I’ll pick up another mountain bike at some point, perhaps one 
with just front suspension, but that’s more about my problem with buying 
bikes then it is about needing it for riding my local trails.  :-)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

Those are beautiful beautiful seatposts! I picked up the single bolt Nitto 
while waiting for my frame. The 2 bolt was impossible to find back then, 
like so many things. So far no issues with the single bolt other than much 
tougher to make small adjustments. 

Sorry for the thread derail. I still can’t say get one over the Clem, but I 
really do love this bike!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Brian Turner]

I also sympathize with the seatpost situation on most of the current Rivs. I had this gorgeous Paul TnH polished seatpost just languishing in my parts bin for the perfect bike - which I kinda thought might be my Gus… so image my dismay upon realizing it has (insert sad trombone) 26-point-freakin-8. Bummer. Good thing is, I sold it to fund a nice new Nitto 2-bolt seatpost, which was perfectly suitable.On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:55 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:I meant to say earlier that I do agree with you on the seatpost size Jason. I never plan to use a dropper but I’d have loved to use my Eriksen Sweetpost! That and some custom form of titanium tosco ish bars from Doom would make me even happier with my Susie. Everything is nicer with a touch of titanium!On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:44:31 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:Regarding my earlier comment - I know, and fully respect, that Grant plans to never make a disc brake bike. Which is fine - sure, it limits their function in certain scenarios, but I do really appreciate brands that are willing to do what they want rather than follow market trends. It's what makes Rene Herse, Jones, and others also worth cherishing even if you don't necessarily feel the same way.  And I absolutely think that rim brakes are just as good, if not better, than disc brakes for the majority of riding that people do. I think Hillibikes should be v-brake. If I want discs, I know where else to look. It's great to have a V-brake option on the market! It's more the seatpost size that really bugs me. I know it's a product of the available seat clamp lug. Hopefully they will go 27.2 in the future - then you can run a thudbuster, a dropper, or a regular seatpost. The brake thing is a stylistic choice I respect, but the seatpost size is just unfortunate.  On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 19:15:09 UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:Thank you for the information.On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:22 AM 'Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:Kim, that’s from 2021 — One year agoOn Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:59:27 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:I know the deadline has come and passed. It does not indicate as to whether or not if this for the Clem Smith Jr. "H" or the "L" version. However, for information reasons:https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/clem-lotto-tickets-on-sale-til-friday-the-15th?_pos=1&_sid=934df0537&_ss=rKim HetzelYelm, WA.On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:02:12 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:Absolutely. If I could pick one bike to do it all, I’d likely pick up a Clem L frame. It crosses my mind often actually because I’ve always looked for the “one” bike to do it all. On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:57:00 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:VERY interesting! Sent from my iPhoneOn Oct 19, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully appreciate this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable. Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a question about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet brazed (the Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The Susie also fits a slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; Susie fit a 2.6. Other than that - they are similar!"Kim HetzelYelm, WA.On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as my mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in quite a while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It was supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no mention of them for a while. I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. I love my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem L seems to be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head tube angle and fork rake. My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I don’t think it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part of it. The extra height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the chunky stuff as well. The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring forward when I get on it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and it is perfect for that. Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as can be. The Susie has more flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love the way the Susie rides. My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not a fair comparison in upright sitting. The Susie is very upright and my Clem not so much. Funny thing, I thought I was faster on the Clem. This week I am using the Susie and I’m actually slightly faster on it while feeling like I’m not working as hard. According to my gps data on my usual daily routes. Only 2 days so far 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

I meant to say earlier that I do agree with you on the seatpost size Jason. 
I never plan to use a dropper but I’d have loved to use my Eriksen 
Sweetpost! That and some custom form of titanium tosco ish bars from Doom 
would make me even happier with my Susie. Everything is nicer with a touch 
of titanium!

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:44:31 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Regarding my earlier comment - I know, and fully respect, that Grant plans 
> to never make a disc brake bike. Which is fine - sure, it limits their 
> function in certain scenarios, but I do really appreciate brands that are 
> willing to do what they want rather than follow market trends. It's what 
> makes Rene Herse, Jones, and others also worth cherishing even if you don't 
> necessarily feel the same way.  And I absolutely think that rim brakes are 
> just as good, if not better, than disc brakes for the majority of riding 
> that people do. 
>
> I think Hillibikes should be v-brake. If I want discs, I know where else 
> to look. It's great to have a V-brake option on the market! 
>
> It's more the seatpost size that really bugs me. I know it's a product of 
> the available seat clamp lug. Hopefully they will go 27.2 in the future - 
> then you can run a thudbuster, a dropper, or a regular seatpost. The brake 
> thing is a stylistic choice I respect, but the seatpost size is just 
> unfortunate.  
>
> On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 19:15:09 UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the information.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:22 AM 'Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Kim, that’s from 2021 — One year ago
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:59:27 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I know the deadline has come and passed. It does not indicate as to 
 whether or not if this for the Clem Smith Jr. "H" or the "L" version. 
 However, for information reasons:


 https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/clem-lotto-tickets-on-sale-til-friday-the-15th?_pos=1&_sid=934df0537&_ss=r

 Kim Hetzel
 Yelm, WA.


 On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:02:12 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

>
> Absolutely. If I could pick one bike to do it all, I’d likely pick up 
> a Clem L frame. It crosses my mind often actually because I’ve always 
> looked for the “one” bike to do it all. 
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:57:00 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> VERY interesting! 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully 
>> appreciate this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable. 
>>
>> Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a 
>> question about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.
>>
>> He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet 
>> brazed (the Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The 
>> Susie also fits a slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; 
>> Susie 
>> fit a 2.6. Other than that - they are similar!"
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as 
>>> my mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in 
>>> quite a 
>>> while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It 
>>> was 
>>> supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t 
>>> show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no 
>>> mention 
>>> of them for a while. 
>>>
>>> I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. 
>>> I love my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem 
>>> L 
>>> seems to be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head 
>>> tube 
>>> angle and fork rake. 
>>>
>>> My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I 
>>> don’t think it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part 
>>> of 
>>> it. The extra height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the 
>>> chunky 
>>> stuff as well. The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring 
>>> forward 
>>> when I get on it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and 
>>> it is 
>>> perfect for that. Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as 
>>> can 
>>> be. The Susie has more flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love 
>>> the 
>>> way the Susie rides. 
>>>
>>> My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not 
>>> a fair comparison in upright sitting. The Susie 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Jason Fuller]

Regarding my earlier comment - I know, and fully respect, that Grant plans 
to never make a disc brake bike. Which is fine - sure, it limits their 
function in certain scenarios, but I do really appreciate brands that are 
willing to do what they want rather than follow market trends. It's what 
makes Rene Herse, Jones, and others also worth cherishing even if you don't 
necessarily feel the same way.  And I absolutely think that rim brakes are 
just as good, if not better, than disc brakes for the majority of riding 
that people do. 

I think Hillibikes should be v-brake. If I want discs, I know where else to 
look. It's great to have a V-brake option on the market! 

It's more the seatpost size that really bugs me. I know it's a product of 
the available seat clamp lug. Hopefully they will go 27.2 in the future - 
then you can run a thudbuster, a dropper, or a regular seatpost. The brake 
thing is a stylistic choice I respect, but the seatpost size is just 
unfortunate.  

On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 19:15:09 UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank you for the information.
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:22 AM 'Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Kim, that’s from 2021 — One year ago
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:59:27 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I know the deadline has come and passed. It does not indicate as to 
>>> whether or not if this for the Clem Smith Jr. "H" or the "L" version. 
>>> However, for information reasons:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/clem-lotto-tickets-on-sale-til-friday-the-15th?_pos=1&_sid=934df0537&_ss=r
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:02:12 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 Absolutely. If I could pick one bike to do it all, I’d likely pick up a 
 Clem L frame. It crosses my mind often actually because I’ve always looked 
 for the “one” bike to do it all. 
 On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:57:00 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> VERY interesting! 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully 
> appreciate this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable. 
>
> Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a 
> question about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.
>
> He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet 
> brazed (the Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The 
> Susie also fits a slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; 
> Susie 
> fit a 2.6. Other than that - they are similar!"
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as 
>> my mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in 
>> quite a 
>> while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It was 
>> supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t 
>> show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no 
>> mention 
>> of them for a while. 
>>
>> I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. 
>> I love my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem L 
>> seems to be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head tube 
>> angle and fork rake. 
>>
>> My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I 
>> don’t think it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part 
>> of 
>> it. The extra height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the 
>> chunky 
>> stuff as well. The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring 
>> forward 
>> when I get on it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and it 
>> is 
>> perfect for that. Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as can 
>> be. The Susie has more flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love 
>> the 
>> way the Susie rides. 
>>
>> My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not 
>> a fair comparison in upright sitting. The Susie is very upright and my 
>> Clem 
>> not so much. Funny thing, I thought I was faster on the Clem. This week 
>> I 
>> am using the Susie and I’m actually slightly faster on it while feeling 
>> like I’m not working as hard. According to my gps data on my usual daily 
>> routes. Only 2 days so far so I’ll see if that holds true all week. 
>>
>> You won’t match a full squish bike on a Gus or Susie but the riding 
>> is still a blast! Just different. I had a jones LWB complete and I would 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Kim Hetzel]

Thank you for the information.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:22 AM 'Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Kim, that’s from 2021 — One year ago
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:59:27 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I know the deadline has come and passed. It does not indicate as to
>> whether or not if this for the Clem Smith Jr. "H" or the "L" version.
>> However, for information reasons:
>>
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/clem-lotto-tickets-on-sale-til-friday-the-15th?_pos=1&_sid=934df0537&_ss=r
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:02:12 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely. If I could pick one bike to do it all, I’d likely pick up a
>>> Clem L frame. It crosses my mind often actually because I’ve always looked
>>> for the “one” bike to do it all.
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:57:00 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 VERY interesting!

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:

 

 I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully
 appreciate this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable.

 Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a
 question about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.

 He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet brazed
 (the Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The Susie also
 fits a slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; Susie fit a 2.6.
 Other than that - they are similar!"

 Kim Hetzel
 Yelm, WA.



 On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as
> my mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in quite 
> a
> while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It was
> supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t
> show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no mention
> of them for a while.
>
> I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. I
> love my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem L
> seems to be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head tube
> angle and fork rake.
>
> My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I don’t
> think it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part of it. 
> The
> extra height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the chunky stuff as
> well. The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring forward when I
> get on it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and it is
> perfect for that. Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as can
> be. The Susie has more flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love 
> the
> way the Susie rides.
>
> My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not a
> fair comparison in upright sitting. The Susie is very upright and my Clem
> not so much. Funny thing, I thought I was faster on the Clem. This week I
> am using the Susie and I’m actually slightly faster on it while feeling
> like I’m not working as hard. According to my gps data on my usual daily
> routes. Only 2 days so far so I’ll see if that holds true all week.
>
> You won’t match a full squish bike on a Gus or Susie but the riding is
> still a blast! Just different. I had a jones LWB complete and I would
> definitely recommend the Susie over that. Jones makes a great bike in
> theory, but I think they (the completes at least) are wastefully 
> overbuilt.
> It was several lbs heavier than my Susie and the slowest I have ever been
> while riding a bike. My Susie has a more plush ride than the Jones did and
> is a better ride in all ways.
>
> Not sue I’ve said anything useful in my rambling but I highly
> recommend the Susie! I’m sure the Gus is equally awesome though! I think 
> if
> you have your Clem set up for commuting and the Gus/Susie set up for 
> trails
> there isn’t too much of an overlap to justify one.
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 6:39:49 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the
>> updates about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a
>> Susie and a Clem L?
>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most
>> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on 
>> the
>> bike 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

My understanding of what I’ve heard/read is the same as Brian’s, though his 
direct communication with Will might have given him more insight. One more 
run of filet frames for the Gus/Susie before they switch to TIG frames to 
save on the rising cost of having the brazed. It was also rumored to have 
at least an extra $200 over the last batch. No idea if they will do other 
changes than TIG welding or consolidating models. 

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 6:06:16 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:

> Just wanted to say that I’m really enjoying this thread. It’s very eye 
> opening and timely, as I’ve recently been reflecting on various Rivendell 
> wheelbases, older models vs newer, long vs medium vs short, and how these 
> relative terms have shifted over time and changed bike philosophy and 
> design and resulted in a distinct category of Rivendell models. I’ve not 
> ridden a super long Riv yet but I’m eager to try a Susie or Gus or a 
> successor. Thanks all. 
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:48:15 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Everything I now ride on the full squish bike I used to do on my Jones 
>> 29. That of course was a short wheelbase, tight chainstay bike with a 2.4” 
>> rear tire & a full 3” up front. It was always a blast, gobbling up roots & 
>> small rocks. It would take small drops in stride, 2’ at most and not at 
>> speed. I moved to suspension due to some back issues that I thought might 
>> be exacerbated by riding rigid. The Jones became my everything else bike 
>> and I like the Clem better for those uses, so I sold the Jones. But the 
>> Clem is just so comfy it has me thinking of doing without suspension once 
>> again.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 8:30 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I wouldn’t take this as gospel, but earlier this year in some email 
>> correspondence with Will from Rivendell, he mentioned that there would be 
>> another run of Susie / Gus frames either late this year or early next. He 
>> also mentioned that it MAY be the last run of these, and that they were 
>> considering consolidating the two into one bike instead of having two such 
>> similar models. Now, I don’t know if that means one of the two would go 
>> away, or both of them, or if it means a newly designed “Hillibike” that is 
>> a combination of the two. I simply can’t speculate on what he meant any 
>> more than that… but it’s something to keep in mind. 
>>
>>
>> I can’t *fully* speak to the capabilities of my Gus because I’ve only had 
>> it for 2 weeks now. However, in that amount of time I’ve put it through 
>> nearly all of the situations I intend to use it for and the types of 
>> terrain I plan to ride it on. I don’t consider myself a mountain biker per 
>> se, but I do enjoy riding a bike on rough terrain. Never owned a bike with 
>> suspension and never felt the need based on my riding style. I’ve been 
>> known to do a bit of underbiking with a loaded steel gravel bike. I’m 
>> firmly a “wheels on the ground” rider. I’m not jumping off rocks, hopping 
>> over logs, or screaming down hills picking technical lines. I’m typically 
>> riding rather slowly and methodically, simply enjoying the fact that I can 
>> even ride a bike on terrain that a lot of folks wouldn’t consider. Green 
>> and blue trails for this guy, and the tamer ones at that. I wanted to be 
>> able to pack 30-odd pounds along with me for bikepacking trips on chunky 
>> gravel, unmaintained forest roads, and exploring the occasional dry creek 
>> bed or crossing scenario. My Gus replaced my Surly Troll for all the riding 
>> mentioned above. Nothing crazy. Nothing technical. But I wanted it to be 
>> capable. The weight limitations listed on the Susie ruled it out for me. 
>> I’m not heavy, but not the lightest either (175-180 usually); but my weight 
>> + loaded gear + terrain made me go with Gus.
>>
>>
>> In the past two weeks, I’ve ridden my Gus (27.5 x 2.5 tires) 
>> approximately 150 miles; spanning several paved rail trail routes, an s24o 
>> along some rugged forest roads, and a couple of trips to local singletrack 
>> parks. It’s proved entirely capable in all situations thus far. It cruises 
>> along, carves turns, descends with confidence, and climbs like a mofo. 
>> Pretty much what I want it to do.
>>
>>
>> I think if you’re looking to replace a suspension mountain bike, or a 
>> bike with a dropper post, or a bike you’d typically be bombing over roots 
>> and hopping off rocks at speed, this bike AIN’T that.
>>
>>
>> Hope my limited experience helps a bit!
>>
>>
>> - Brian
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>
>> "long wheelbase progressive geometry" The next marketing ploy!
>>
>> I agree on the tire size. I’m not sure what wheels you are running, but 
>> the cliffhanger set up tubeless with a 2.4-5  would make it quite capable. 
>> Again, this is depending on your wants. I love a stable bike that can bomb 
>> some fun stuff and climb comfortably while 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[J J]

Just wanted to say that I’m really enjoying this thread. It’s very eye 
opening and timely, as I’ve recently been reflecting on various Rivendell 
wheelbases, older models vs newer, long vs medium vs short, and how these 
relative terms have shifted over time and changed bike philosophy and 
design and resulted in a distinct category of Rivendell models. I’ve not 
ridden a super long Riv yet but I’m eager to try a Susie or Gus or a 
successor. Thanks all. 
On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:48:15 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Everything I now ride on the full squish bike I used to do on my Jones 29. 
> That of course was a short wheelbase, tight chainstay bike with a 2.4” rear 
> tire & a full 3” up front. It was always a blast, gobbling up roots & small 
> rocks. It would take small drops in stride, 2’ at most and not at speed. I 
> moved to suspension due to some back issues that I thought might be 
> exacerbated by riding rigid. The Jones became my everything else bike and I 
> like the Clem better for those uses, so I sold the Jones. But the Clem is 
> just so comfy it has me thinking of doing without suspension once again.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 19, 2022, at 8:30 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I wouldn’t take this as gospel, but earlier this year in some email 
> correspondence with Will from Rivendell, he mentioned that there would be 
> another run of Susie / Gus frames either late this year or early next. He 
> also mentioned that it MAY be the last run of these, and that they were 
> considering consolidating the two into one bike instead of having two such 
> similar models. Now, I don’t know if that means one of the two would go 
> away, or both of them, or if it means a newly designed “Hillibike” that is 
> a combination of the two. I simply can’t speculate on what he meant any 
> more than that… but it’s something to keep in mind. 
>
>
> I can’t *fully* speak to the capabilities of my Gus because I’ve only had 
> it for 2 weeks now. However, in that amount of time I’ve put it through 
> nearly all of the situations I intend to use it for and the types of 
> terrain I plan to ride it on. I don’t consider myself a mountain biker per 
> se, but I do enjoy riding a bike on rough terrain. Never owned a bike with 
> suspension and never felt the need based on my riding style. I’ve been 
> known to do a bit of underbiking with a loaded steel gravel bike. I’m 
> firmly a “wheels on the ground” rider. I’m not jumping off rocks, hopping 
> over logs, or screaming down hills picking technical lines. I’m typically 
> riding rather slowly and methodically, simply enjoying the fact that I can 
> even ride a bike on terrain that a lot of folks wouldn’t consider. Green 
> and blue trails for this guy, and the tamer ones at that. I wanted to be 
> able to pack 30-odd pounds along with me for bikepacking trips on chunky 
> gravel, unmaintained forest roads, and exploring the occasional dry creek 
> bed or crossing scenario. My Gus replaced my Surly Troll for all the riding 
> mentioned above. Nothing crazy. Nothing technical. But I wanted it to be 
> capable. The weight limitations listed on the Susie ruled it out for me. 
> I’m not heavy, but not the lightest either (175-180 usually); but my weight 
> + loaded gear + terrain made me go with Gus.
>
>
> In the past two weeks, I’ve ridden my Gus (27.5 x 2.5 tires) approximately 
> 150 miles; spanning several paved rail trail routes, an s24o along some 
> rugged forest roads, and a couple of trips to local singletrack parks. It’s 
> proved entirely capable in all situations thus far. It cruises along, 
> carves turns, descends with confidence, and climbs like a mofo. Pretty much 
> what I want it to do.
>
>
> I think if you’re looking to replace a suspension mountain bike, or a bike 
> with a dropper post, or a bike you’d typically be bombing over roots and 
> hopping off rocks at speed, this bike AIN’T that.
>
>
> Hope my limited experience helps a bit!
>
>
> - Brian
>
> On Oct 19, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>
> "long wheelbase progressive geometry" The next marketing ploy!
>
> I agree on the tire size. I’m not sure what wheels you are running, but 
> the cliffhanger set up tubeless with a 2.4-5  would make it quite capable. 
> Again, this is depending on your wants. I love a stable bike that can bomb 
> some fun stuff and climb comfortably while getting me to and from the 
> trail. Deer and elk trail exploration, the bike shoulders surprisingly well 
> to get through some tough hike a bike. Could be the ATB the market “must” 
> have in a few years. 
>
> I won’t knock the sweet new bikes (or riders) that can fly through any 
> terrain at speeds that scare me! That’s just not what you buy one of these 
> bikes for. I love my Susie but can’t say that it would be a massive 
> difference over the Clem L if the Clem had similar wheels and tires. It’s a 
> 1 cm higher BB, not a huge difference. Run a shorter crank, your knees 
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

Everything I now ride on the full squish bike I used to do on my Jones 29. That 
of course was a short wheelbase, tight chainstay bike with a 2.4” rear tire & a 
full 3” up front. It was always a blast, gobbling up roots & small rocks. It 
would take small drops in stride, 2’ at most and not at speed. I moved to 
suspension due to some back issues that I thought might be exacerbated by 
riding rigid. The Jones became my everything else bike and I like the Clem 
better for those uses, so I sold the Jones. But the Clem is just so comfy it 
has me thinking of doing without suspension once again.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 8:30 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
> 
> 
> I wouldn’t take this as gospel, but earlier this year in some email 
> correspondence with Will from Rivendell, he mentioned that there would be 
> another run of Susie / Gus frames either late this year or early next. He 
> also mentioned that it MAY be the last run of these, and that they were 
> considering consolidating the two into one bike instead of having two such 
> similar models. Now, I don’t know if that means one of the two would go away, 
> or both of them, or if it means a newly designed “Hillibike” that is a 
> combination of the two. I simply can’t speculate on what he meant any more 
> than that… but it’s something to keep in mind. 
> 
> I can’t *fully* speak to the capabilities of my Gus because I’ve only had it 
> for 2 weeks now. However, in that amount of time I’ve put it through nearly 
> all of the situations I intend to use it for and the types of terrain I plan 
> to ride it on. I don’t consider myself a mountain biker per se, but I do 
> enjoy riding a bike on rough terrain. Never owned a bike with suspension and 
> never felt the need based on my riding style. I’ve been known to do a bit of 
> underbiking with a loaded steel gravel bike. I’m firmly a “wheels on the 
> ground” rider. I’m not jumping off rocks, hopping over logs, or screaming 
> down hills picking technical lines. I’m typically riding rather slowly and 
> methodically, simply enjoying the fact that I can even ride a bike on terrain 
> that a lot of folks wouldn’t consider. Green and blue trails for this guy, 
> and the tamer ones at that. I wanted to be able to pack 30-odd pounds along 
> with me for bikepacking trips on chunky gravel, unmaintained forest roads, 
> and exploring the occasional dry creek bed or crossing scenario. My Gus 
> replaced my Surly Troll for all the riding mentioned above. Nothing crazy. 
> Nothing technical. But I wanted it to be capable. The weight limitations 
> listed on the Susie ruled it out for me. I’m not heavy, but not the lightest 
> either (175-180 usually); but my weight + loaded gear + terrain made me go 
> with Gus.
> 
> In the past two weeks, I’ve ridden my Gus (27.5 x 2.5 tires) approximately 
> 150 miles; spanning several paved rail trail routes, an s24o along some 
> rugged forest roads, and a couple of trips to local singletrack parks. It’s 
> proved entirely capable in all situations thus far. It cruises along, carves 
> turns, descends with confidence, and climbs like a mofo. Pretty much what I 
> want it to do.
> 
> I think if you’re looking to replace a suspension mountain bike, or a bike 
> with a dropper post, or a bike you’d typically be bombing over roots and 
> hopping off rocks at speed, this bike AIN’T that.
> 
> Hope my limited experience helps a bit!
> 
> - Brian
> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
>>> 
>> "long wheelbase progressive geometry" The next marketing ploy!
>> 
>> I agree on the tire size. I’m not sure what wheels you are running, but the 
>> cliffhanger set up tubeless with a 2.4-5  would make it quite capable. 
>> Again, this is depending on your wants. I love a stable bike that can bomb 
>> some fun stuff and climb comfortably while getting me to and from the trail. 
>> Deer and elk trail exploration, the bike shoulders surprisingly well to get 
>> through some tough hike a bike. Could be the ATB the market “must” have in a 
>> few years. 
>> 
>> I won’t knock the sweet new bikes (or riders) that can fly through any 
>> terrain at speeds that scare me! That’s just not what you buy one of these 
>> bikes for. I love my Susie but can’t say that it would be a massive 
>> difference over the Clem L if the Clem had similar wheels and tires. It’s a 
>> 1 cm higher BB, not a huge difference. Run a shorter crank, your knees might 
>> love it! 
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 4:29:45 PM UTC-7 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>> I think the tires size definitely makes a huge difference in overall feel. 
>>> Even going from 2.2 on a narrow rim to 2.5 on a wide rim. If you've got a 
>>> chance, try to fit some ~2.4 tires on there and hit the trails. I found 
>>> some inexpensive second hand downhill tires to try it out and really 
>>> enjoyed it. Downhillers love upgrading and tires can be bought cheap. The 
>>> BB height also rises to a more reasonable height 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Brian Turner]

I wouldn’t take this as gospel, but earlier this year in some email correspondence with Will from Rivendell, he mentioned that there would be another run of Susie / Gus frames either late this year or early next. He also mentioned that it MAY be the last run of these, and that they were considering consolidating the two into one bike instead of having two such similar models. Now, I don’t know if that means one of the two would go away, or both of them, or if it means a newly designed “Hillibike” that is a combination of the two. I simply can’t speculate on what he meant any more than that… but it’s something to keep in mind. I can’t *fully* speak to the capabilities of my Gus because I’ve only had it for 2 weeks now. However, in that amount of time I’ve put it through nearly all of the situations I intend to use it for and the types of terrain I plan to ride it on. I don’t consider myself a mountain biker per se, but I do enjoy riding a bike on rough terrain. Never owned a bike with suspension and never felt the need based on my riding style. I’ve been known to do a bit of underbiking with a loaded steel gravel bike. I’m firmly a “wheels on the ground” rider. I’m not jumping off rocks, hopping over logs, or screaming down hills picking technical lines. I’m typically riding rather slowly and methodically, simply enjoying the fact that I can even ride a bike on terrain that a lot of folks wouldn’t consider. Green and blue trails for this guy, and the tamer ones at that. I wanted to be able to pack 30-odd pounds along with me for bikepacking trips on chunky gravel, unmaintained forest roads, and exploring the occasional dry creek bed or crossing scenario. My Gus replaced my Surly Troll for all the riding mentioned above. Nothing crazy. Nothing technical. But I wanted it to be capable. The weight limitations listed on the Susie ruled it out for me. I’m not heavy, but not the lightest either (175-180 usually); but my weight + loaded gear + terrain made me go with Gus.In the past two weeks, I’ve ridden my Gus (27.5 x 2.5 tires) approximately 150 miles; spanning several paved rail trail routes, an s24o along some rugged forest roads, and a couple of trips to local singletrack parks. It’s proved entirely capable in all situations thus far. It cruises along, carves turns, descends with confidence, and climbs like a mofo. Pretty much what I want it to do.I think if you’re looking to replace a suspension mountain bike, or a bike with a dropper post, or a bike you’d typically be bombing over roots and hopping off rocks at speed, this bike AIN’T that.Hope my limited experience helps a bit!- BrianOn Oct 19, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:"long wheelbase progressive geometry" The next marketing ploy!I agree on the tire size. I’m not sure what wheels you are running, but the cliffhanger set up tubeless with a 2.4-5  would make it quite capable. Again, this is depending on your wants. I love a stable bike that can bomb some fun stuff and climb comfortably while getting me to and from the trail. Deer and elk trail exploration, the bike shoulders surprisingly well to get through some tough hike a bike. Could be the ATB the market “must” have in a few years. I won’t knock the sweet new bikes (or riders) that can fly through any terrain at speeds that scare me! That’s just not what you buy one of these bikes for. I love my Susie but can’t say that it would be a massive difference over the Clem L if the Clem had similar wheels and tires. It’s a 1 cm higher BB, not a huge difference. Run a shorter crank, your knees might love it! On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 4:29:45 PM UTC-7 Mackenzy Albright wrote:I think the tires size definitely makes a huge difference in overall feel. Even going from 2.2 on a narrow rim to 2.5 on a wide rim. If you've got a chance, try to fit some ~2.4 tires on there and hit the trails. I found some inexpensive second hand downhill tires to try it out and really enjoyed it. Downhillers love upgrading and tires can be bought cheap. The BB height also rises to a more reasonable height for trails as well. I found the large clem jr pretty good on "baby head" sized rocks sticking out of trails for the speeds I ride. It deflects and bounces a lot less than other bikes I've noticed. Granted my reference of my previous bike was a romanceur with 26x2.1 tires which is short and twitchy. I've noticed a lot of "progressive" mtb geometry is getting long and slack (not unlike riv hillibikes). As Frahm had mentioned the huge difference is short chainstays and stp seat tubes. I'm curious if longer bikes will catch on in the next 5 years. Salsa and Specialized will release "long wheelbase progressive geometry" mountain bikes. haha On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 4:10:28 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:Nice, thanks for that input. My Clem is a new 52 and it has felt really good on smooth trails. But it was pretty rough relative to the squishy bike) on a heavily rooted section. But the tires are pretty 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

"long wheelbase progressive geometry" The next marketing ploy!

I agree on the tire size. I’m not sure what wheels you are running, but the 
cliffhanger set up tubeless with a 2.4-5  would make it quite capable. 
Again, this is depending on your wants. I love a stable bike that can bomb 
some fun stuff and climb comfortably while getting me to and from the 
trail. Deer and elk trail exploration, the bike shoulders surprisingly well 
to get through some tough hike a bike. Could be the ATB the market “must” 
have in a few years. 

I won’t knock the sweet new bikes (or riders) that can fly through any 
terrain at speeds that scare me! That’s just not what you buy one of these 
bikes for. I love my Susie but can’t say that it would be a massive 
difference over the Clem L if the Clem had similar wheels and tires. It’s a 
1 cm higher BB, not a huge difference. Run a shorter crank, your knees 
might love it! 

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 4:29:45 PM UTC-7 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I think the tires size definitely makes a huge difference in overall feel. 
> Even going from 2.2 on a narrow rim to 2.5 on a wide rim. If you've got a 
> chance, try to fit some ~2.4 tires on there and hit the trails. I found 
> some inexpensive second hand downhill tires to try it out and really 
> enjoyed it. Downhillers love upgrading and tires can be bought cheap. The 
> BB height also rises to a more reasonable height for trails as well. 
>
> I found the large clem jr pretty good on "baby head" sized rocks sticking 
> out of trails for the speeds I ride. It deflects and bounces a lot less 
> than other bikes I've noticed. Granted my reference of my previous bike was 
> a romanceur with 26x2.1 tires which is short and twitchy. 
>
> I've noticed a lot of "progressive" mtb geometry is getting long and slack 
> (not unlike riv hillibikes). As Frahm had mentioned the huge difference is 
> short chainstays and stp seat tubes. I'm curious if longer bikes 
> will catch on in the next 5 years. Salsa and Specialized will release "long 
> wheelbase progressive geometry" mountain bikes. haha 
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 4:10:28 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Nice, thanks for that input. My Clem is a new 52 and it has felt really 
>> good on smooth trails. But it was pretty rough relative to the squishy 
>> bike) on a heavily rooted section. But the tires are pretty small as noted. 
>> On a more rocky trail I frequent I would be concerned (I think?) about 
>> pedal strikes. But I really need to ride some more trails with this Clem. 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:38 PM, Mackenzy Albright  
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have a bullmoose bosco first gen 59cm Clementine with 2.2 tires and 
>> simworks flat 65 fenders with ample clearance for the type of riding I do. 
>> With the steeper headtube I find it a better commuter with a basket and 
>> light trail bike that is extremely comfortable and fun. it feels like a 
>> good bike with long chainstays. 
>>
>>
>> I also have a 64 Clem Smith Jr that I found I disliked as a commuter with 
>> a basket because of flop so have turned it into a designated hillibike. I 
>> was able to fit 2.5 maxxis tires with space to spare. The fit is almost 
>> identical to the 59cm with tosco's and a 90mm stem. It's an absolute blast 
>> on trails and descends and climbs like a dream. The way it floats I felt I 
>> could easily outpace a lot of other bikes with no squirm. I feel much more 
>> confident on trails than with the clementine. It marks what I enjoy about 
>> mountain biking/all terrain biking which is picking lines, riding light, 
>> pumping, and regulating speed accordingly. the long wheel base and slack HT 
>> really help it float. I have no intention of ever having a suspension bike. 
>> it's not how I want to relate or wish to engage to my environment. With the 
>> bike so long I feel like I have lots of room to move forward and back 
>> terrain pending. 
>>
>> I think a Gus or a SUS would be even a little more awesome for trails. 
>> But I'm happy with my clems and they do everything i want them to do. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 3:06:06 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I love the Susie / Gus for what they are, but I will admit I'd never 
>>> consider one for trail riding around here because of two deal-breakers: rim 
>>> brakes and 26.8 seatpost.  I can happily do without suspension, but a 
>>> dropper seatpost provides so much more off-road capability for pretty 
>>> minimal complexity. At least if were 27.2 we'd have options.  And disc 
>>> brakes not only improve performance and general enjoyment when things get 
>>> muddy, they also allow fatter tires and potentially fenders as well - there 
>>> isn't enough clearance with V-brakes to have both fat tires and fenders.  
>>>
>>> This has everything to do with where I live though - the Gus / Susie are 
>>> perfect for the California hills for which they're designed, I have no 
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Mackenzy Albright]

I think the tires size definitely makes a huge difference in overall feel. 
Even going from 2.2 on a narrow rim to 2.5 on a wide rim. If you've got a 
chance, try to fit some ~2.4 tires on there and hit the trails. I found 
some inexpensive second hand downhill tires to try it out and really 
enjoyed it. Downhillers love upgrading and tires can be bought cheap. The 
BB height also rises to a more reasonable height for trails as well. 

I found the large clem jr pretty good on "baby head" sized rocks sticking 
out of trails for the speeds I ride. It deflects and bounces a lot less 
than other bikes I've noticed. Granted my reference of my previous bike was 
a romanceur with 26x2.1 tires which is short and twitchy. 

I've noticed a lot of "progressive" mtb geometry is getting long and slack 
(not unlike riv hillibikes). As Frahm had mentioned the huge difference is 
short chainstays and stp seat tubes. I'm curious if longer bikes 
will catch on in the next 5 years. Salsa and Specialized will release "long 
wheelbase progressive geometry" mountain bikes. haha 


On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 4:10:28 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Nice, thanks for that input. My Clem is a new 52 and it has felt really 
> good on smooth trails. But it was pretty rough relative to the squishy 
> bike) on a heavily rooted section. But the tires are pretty small as noted. 
> On a more rocky trail I frequent I would be concerned (I think?) about 
> pedal strikes. But I really need to ride some more trails with this Clem. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:38 PM, Mackenzy Albright  
> wrote:
>
> I have a bullmoose bosco first gen 59cm Clementine with 2.2 tires and 
> simworks flat 65 fenders with ample clearance for the type of riding I do. 
> With the steeper headtube I find it a better commuter with a basket and 
> light trail bike that is extremely comfortable and fun. it feels like a 
> good bike with long chainstays. 
>
>
> I also have a 64 Clem Smith Jr that I found I disliked as a commuter with 
> a basket because of flop so have turned it into a designated hillibike. I 
> was able to fit 2.5 maxxis tires with space to spare. The fit is almost 
> identical to the 59cm with tosco's and a 90mm stem. It's an absolute blast 
> on trails and descends and climbs like a dream. The way it floats I felt I 
> could easily outpace a lot of other bikes with no squirm. I feel much more 
> confident on trails than with the clementine. It marks what I enjoy about 
> mountain biking/all terrain biking which is picking lines, riding light, 
> pumping, and regulating speed accordingly. the long wheel base and slack HT 
> really help it float. I have no intention of ever having a suspension bike. 
> it's not how I want to relate or wish to engage to my environment. With the 
> bike so long I feel like I have lots of room to move forward and back 
> terrain pending. 
>
> I think a Gus or a SUS would be even a little more awesome for trails. But 
> I'm happy with my clems and they do everything i want them to do. 
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 3:06:06 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I love the Susie / Gus for what they are, but I will admit I'd never 
>> consider one for trail riding around here because of two deal-breakers: rim 
>> brakes and 26.8 seatpost.  I can happily do without suspension, but a 
>> dropper seatpost provides so much more off-road capability for pretty 
>> minimal complexity. At least if were 27.2 we'd have options.  And disc 
>> brakes not only improve performance and general enjoyment when things get 
>> muddy, they also allow fatter tires and potentially fenders as well - there 
>> isn't enough clearance with V-brakes to have both fat tires and fenders.  
>>
>> This has everything to do with where I live though - the Gus / Susie are 
>> perfect for the California hills for which they're designed, I have no 
>> doubt. They just don't make as much sense here in BC.  The Jones, or a 
>> Stooge are the ideal rigid MTBs for me. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 06:39:49 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
>>> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
>>> and a Clem L?
>>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
>>> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the 
>>> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
>>> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
>>> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
>>> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
>>> like to ride on the full squish bike.
>>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

Nice, thanks for that input. My Clem is a new 52 and it has felt really good on 
smooth trails. But it was pretty rough relative to the squishy bike) on a 
heavily rooted section. But the tires are pretty small as noted. On a more 
rocky trail I frequent I would be concerned (I think?) about pedal strikes. But 
I really need to ride some more trails with this Clem. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:38 PM, Mackenzy Albright  
> wrote:
> 
> I have a bullmoose bosco first gen 59cm Clementine with 2.2 tires and 
> simworks flat 65 fenders with ample clearance for the type of riding I do. 
> With the steeper headtube I find it a better commuter with a basket and light 
> trail bike that is extremely comfortable and fun. it feels like a good bike 
> with long chainstays. 
> 
> I also have a 64 Clem Smith Jr that I found I disliked as a commuter with a 
> basket because of flop so have turned it into a designated hillibike. I was 
> able to fit 2.5 maxxis tires with space to spare. The fit is almost identical 
> to the 59cm with tosco's and a 90mm stem. It's an absolute blast on trails 
> and descends and climbs like a dream. The way it floats I felt I could easily 
> outpace a lot of other bikes with no squirm. I feel much more confident on 
> trails than with the clementine. It marks what I enjoy about mountain 
> biking/all terrain biking which is picking lines, riding light, pumping, and 
> regulating speed accordingly. the long wheel base and slack HT really help it 
> float. I have no intention of ever having a suspension bike. it's not how I 
> want to relate or wish to engage to my environment. With the bike so long I 
> feel like I have lots of room to move forward and back terrain pending. 
> 
> I think a Gus or a SUS would be even a little more awesome for trails. But 
> I'm happy with my clems and they do everything i want them to do. 
> 
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 3:06:06 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>> I love the Susie / Gus for what they are, but I will admit I'd never 
>> consider one for trail riding around here because of two deal-breakers: rim 
>> brakes and 26.8 seatpost.  I can happily do without suspension, but a 
>> dropper seatpost provides so much more off-road capability for pretty 
>> minimal complexity. At least if were 27.2 we'd have options.  And disc 
>> brakes not only improve performance and general enjoyment when things get 
>> muddy, they also allow fatter tires and potentially fenders as well - there 
>> isn't enough clearance with V-brakes to have both fat tires and fenders.  
>> 
>> This has everything to do with where I live though - the Gus / Susie are 
>> perfect for the California hills for which they're designed, I have no 
>> doubt. They just don't make as much sense here in BC.  The Jones, or a 
>> Stooge are the ideal rigid MTBs for me. 
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 06:39:49 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
>>> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
>>> and a Clem L?
>>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most comfortable 
>>> bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the bike that I 
>>> am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full suspension 
>>> bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good off road 
>>> and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept me from 
>>> giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I like to 
>>> ride on the full squish bike.
>>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable on 
>>> these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding a 
>>> rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a bike 
>>> that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>>> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

Mackenzy, you nailed the riding these bikes are made for. They are a blast. 
Rim brakes are absolutely fine in all conditions for riding at the speeds 
these bikes are made for. When I look at the geo on the Clem L, it is 
seemingly closer to a Gus/Susie and I’m sure it can be very close to as 
capable. The long wheelbase is such a smooth ride too! Far more capable 
than most would imagine. 

As far as a dropper post, I just don’t have any need for them. Picking 
lines and “under biking” has been something I have fun doing though. If you 
need disc brakes and a dropper post, you’re going fast enough to need full 
body protection. I don’t take it that serious these days. That kind of 
riding is probably best left to bikes made for it. Unfortunately, I use a 
setback post to be comfortable on these bikes. Droppers don’t have setback. 
And those new bikes with a 74-76 seat tube angle? That just sounds like a 
great way to ruin a comfortable bike ride…

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 3:38:34 PM UTC-7 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I have a bullmoose bosco first gen 59cm Clementine with 2.2 tires and 
> simworks flat 65 fenders with ample clearance for the type of riding I do. 
> With the steeper headtube I find it a better commuter with a basket and 
> light trail bike that is extremely comfortable and fun. it feels like a 
> good bike with long chainstays. 
>
> I also have a 64 Clem Smith Jr that I found I disliked as a commuter with 
> a basket because of flop so have turned it into a designated hillibike. I 
> was able to fit 2.5 maxxis tires with space to spare. The fit is almost 
> identical to the 59cm with tosco's and a 90mm stem. It's an absolute blast 
> on trails and descends and climbs like a dream. The way it floats I felt I 
> could easily outpace a lot of other bikes with no squirm. I feel much more 
> confident on trails than with the clementine. It marks what I enjoy about 
> mountain biking/all terrain biking which is picking lines, riding light, 
> pumping, and regulating speed accordingly. the long wheel base and slack HT 
> really help it float. I have no intention of ever having a suspension bike. 
> it's not how I want to relate or wish to engage to my environment. With the 
> bike so long I feel like I have lots of room to move forward and back 
> terrain pending. 
>
> I think a Gus or a SUS would be even a little more awesome for trails. But 
> I'm happy with my clems and they do everything i want them to do. 
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 3:06:06 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I love the Susie / Gus for what they are, but I will admit I'd never 
>> consider one for trail riding around here because of two deal-breakers: rim 
>> brakes and 26.8 seatpost.  I can happily do without suspension, but a 
>> dropper seatpost provides so much more off-road capability for pretty 
>> minimal complexity. At least if were 27.2 we'd have options.  And disc 
>> brakes not only improve performance and general enjoyment when things get 
>> muddy, they also allow fatter tires and potentially fenders as well - there 
>> isn't enough clearance with V-brakes to have both fat tires and fenders.  
>>
>> This has everything to do with where I live though - the Gus / Susie are 
>> perfect for the California hills for which they're designed, I have no 
>> doubt. They just don't make as much sense here in BC.  The Jones, or a 
>> Stooge are the ideal rigid MTBs for me. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 06:39:49 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
>>> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
>>> and a Clem L?
>>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
>>> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the 
>>> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
>>> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
>>> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
>>> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
>>> like to ride on the full squish bike.
>>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable 
>>> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding 
>>> a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a 
>>> bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Mackenzy Albright]

I have a bullmoose bosco first gen 59cm Clementine with 2.2 tires and 
simworks flat 65 fenders with ample clearance for the type of riding I do. 
With the steeper headtube I find it a better commuter with a basket and 
light trail bike that is extremely comfortable and fun. it feels like a 
good bike with long chainstays. 

I also have a 64 Clem Smith Jr that I found I disliked as a commuter with a 
basket because of flop so have turned it into a designated hillibike. I was 
able to fit 2.5 maxxis tires with space to spare. The fit is almost 
identical to the 59cm with tosco's and a 90mm stem. It's an absolute blast 
on trails and descends and climbs like a dream. The way it floats I felt I 
could easily outpace a lot of other bikes with no squirm. I feel much more 
confident on trails than with the clementine. It marks what I enjoy about 
mountain biking/all terrain biking which is picking lines, riding light, 
pumping, and regulating speed accordingly. the long wheel base and slack HT 
really help it float. I have no intention of ever having a suspension bike. 
it's not how I want to relate or wish to engage to my environment. With the 
bike so long I feel like I have lots of room to move forward and back 
terrain pending. 

I think a Gus or a SUS would be even a little more awesome for trails. But 
I'm happy with my clems and they do everything i want them to do. 

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 3:06:06 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I love the Susie / Gus for what they are, but I will admit I'd never 
> consider one for trail riding around here because of two deal-breakers: rim 
> brakes and 26.8 seatpost.  I can happily do without suspension, but a 
> dropper seatpost provides so much more off-road capability for pretty 
> minimal complexity. At least if were 27.2 we'd have options.  And disc 
> brakes not only improve performance and general enjoyment when things get 
> muddy, they also allow fatter tires and potentially fenders as well - there 
> isn't enough clearance with V-brakes to have both fat tires and fenders.  
>
> This has everything to do with where I live though - the Gus / Susie are 
> perfect for the California hills for which they're designed, I have no 
> doubt. They just don't make as much sense here in BC.  The Jones, or a 
> Stooge are the ideal rigid MTBs for me. 
>
> On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 06:39:49 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
>> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
>> and a Clem L?
>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
>> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the 
>> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
>> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
>> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
>> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
>> like to ride on the full squish bike.
>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable 
>> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding 
>> a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a 
>> bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

Good points for sure, but for the most part not for me. All trails within 2 
hrs. of me frown on riding in muddy / soft conditions - and I don’t do so. So 
fenders are never required. Disks are nice though. I don’t miss them where I 
ride the Clem but I might on certain high speed descents. The Susie will take 
as wide a tire as I would likely use. And, I have a dropper on my bike now & 
simply do not take advantage of it locally. But like you, these items have more 
to do with locale than anything else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:06 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
> 
> I love the Susie / Gus for what they are, but I will admit I'd never 
> consider one for trail riding around here because of two deal-breakers: rim 
> brakes and 26.8 seatpost.  I can happily do without suspension, but a dropper 
> seatpost provides so much more off-road capability for pretty minimal 
> complexity. At least if were 27.2 we'd have options.  And disc brakes not 
> only improve performance and general enjoyment when things get muddy, they 
> also allow fatter tires and potentially fenders as well - there isn't enough 
> clearance with V-brakes to have both fat tires and fenders.  
> 
> This has everything to do with where I live though - the Gus / Susie are 
> perfect for the California hills for which they're designed, I have no doubt. 
> They just don't make as much sense here in BC.  The Jones, or a Stooge are 
> the ideal rigid MTBs for me. 
> 
>> On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 06:39:49 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates about 
>> additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie and 
>> a Clem L?
>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most comfortable 
>> bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the bike that I 
>> am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full suspension 
>> bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good off road and 
>> on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept me from giving 
>> it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I like to ride on 
>> the full squish bike.
>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable on 
>> these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding a 
>> rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a bike 
>> that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Jason Fuller]

I love the Susie / Gus for what they are, but I will admit I'd never 
consider one for trail riding around here because of two deal-breakers: rim 
brakes and 26.8 seatpost.  I can happily do without suspension, but a 
dropper seatpost provides so much more off-road capability for pretty 
minimal complexity. At least if were 27.2 we'd have options.  And disc 
brakes not only improve performance and general enjoyment when things get 
muddy, they also allow fatter tires and potentially fenders as well - there 
isn't enough clearance with V-brakes to have both fat tires and fenders.  

This has everything to do with where I live though - the Gus / Susie are 
perfect for the California hills for which they're designed, I have no 
doubt. They just don't make as much sense here in BC.  The Jones, or a 
Stooge are the ideal rigid MTBs for me. 

On Wednesday, 19 October 2022 at 06:39:49 UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
> and a Clem L?
> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the 
> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
> like to ride on the full squish bike.
> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable 
> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding 
> a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a 
> bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

['Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Kim, that’s from 2021 — One year ago

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:59:27 AM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> I know the deadline has come and passed. It does not indicate as to 
> whether or not if this for the Clem Smith Jr. "H" or the "L" version. 
> However, for information reasons:
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/clem-lotto-tickets-on-sale-til-friday-the-15th?_pos=1&_sid=934df0537&_ss=r
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:02:12 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Absolutely. If I could pick one bike to do it all, I’d likely pick up a 
>> Clem L frame. It crosses my mind often actually because I’ve always looked 
>> for the “one” bike to do it all. 
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:57:00 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> VERY interesting! 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully 
>>> appreciate this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable. 
>>>
>>> Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a 
>>> question about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.
>>>
>>> He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet brazed 
>>> (the Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The Susie also 
>>> fits a slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; Susie fit a 2.6. 
>>> Other than that - they are similar!"
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as my 
 mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in quite a 
 while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It was 
 supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t 
 show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no mention 
 of them for a while. 

 I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. I 
 love my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem L 
 seems to be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head tube 
 angle and fork rake. 

 My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I don’t 
 think it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part of it. 
 The 
 extra height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the chunky stuff as 
 well. The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring forward when I 
 get on it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and it is 
 perfect for that. Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as can 
 be. The Susie has more flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love 
 the 
 way the Susie rides. 

 My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not a 
 fair comparison in upright sitting. The Susie is very upright and my Clem 
 not so much. Funny thing, I thought I was faster on the Clem. This week I 
 am using the Susie and I’m actually slightly faster on it while feeling 
 like I’m not working as hard. According to my gps data on my usual daily 
 routes. Only 2 days so far so I’ll see if that holds true all week. 

 You won’t match a full squish bike on a Gus or Susie but the riding is 
 still a blast! Just different. I had a jones LWB complete and I would 
 definitely recommend the Susie over that. Jones makes a great bike in 
 theory, but I think they (the completes at least) are wastefully 
 overbuilt. 
 It was several lbs heavier than my Susie and the slowest I have ever been 
 while riding a bike. My Susie has a more plush ride than the Jones did and 
 is a better ride in all ways.

 Not sue I’ve said anything useful in my rambling but I highly recommend 
 the Susie! I’m sure the Gus is equally awesome though! I think if you have 
 your Clem set up for commuting and the Gus/Susie set up for trails there 
 isn’t too much of an overlap to justify one. 

 On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 6:39:49 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a 
> Susie and a Clem L?
> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on 
> the 
> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a 
> full 
> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really 
> good 
> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Kim Hetzel]

I know the deadline has come and passed. It does not indicate as to whether 
or not if this for the Clem Smith Jr. "H" or the "L" version. However, for 
information reasons:

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/clem-lotto-tickets-on-sale-til-friday-the-15th?_pos=1&_sid=934df0537&_ss=r

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.


On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 8:02:12 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Absolutely. If I could pick one bike to do it all, I’d likely pick up a 
> Clem L frame. It crosses my mind often actually because I’ve always looked 
> for the “one” bike to do it all. 
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:57:00 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> VERY interesting! 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully 
>> appreciate this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable. 
>>
>> Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a question 
>> about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.
>>
>> He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet brazed 
>> (the Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The Susie also 
>> fits a slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; Susie fit a 2.6. 
>> Other than that - they are similar!"
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as my 
>>> mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in quite a 
>>> while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It was 
>>> supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t 
>>> show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no mention 
>>> of them for a while. 
>>>
>>> I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. I 
>>> love my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem L 
>>> seems to be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head tube 
>>> angle and fork rake. 
>>>
>>> My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I don’t 
>>> think it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part of it. The 
>>> extra height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the chunky stuff as 
>>> well. The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring forward when I 
>>> get on it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and it is 
>>> perfect for that. Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as can 
>>> be. The Susie has more flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love the 
>>> way the Susie rides. 
>>>
>>> My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not a 
>>> fair comparison in upright sitting. The Susie is very upright and my Clem 
>>> not so much. Funny thing, I thought I was faster on the Clem. This week I 
>>> am using the Susie and I’m actually slightly faster on it while feeling 
>>> like I’m not working as hard. According to my gps data on my usual daily 
>>> routes. Only 2 days so far so I’ll see if that holds true all week. 
>>>
>>> You won’t match a full squish bike on a Gus or Susie but the riding is 
>>> still a blast! Just different. I had a jones LWB complete and I would 
>>> definitely recommend the Susie over that. Jones makes a great bike in 
>>> theory, but I think they (the completes at least) are wastefully overbuilt. 
>>> It was several lbs heavier than my Susie and the slowest I have ever been 
>>> while riding a bike. My Susie has a more plush ride than the Jones did and 
>>> is a better ride in all ways.
>>>
>>> Not sue I’ve said anything useful in my rambling but I highly recommend 
>>> the Susie! I’m sure the Gus is equally awesome though! I think if you have 
>>> your Clem set up for commuting and the Gus/Susie set up for trails there 
>>> isn’t too much of an overlap to justify one. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 6:39:49 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
 about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
 Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
 Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a 
 Susie and a Clem L?
 My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
 comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on 
 the 
 bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
 suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
 off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
 me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
 like to ride on the full squish bike.
 Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and 
 capable on these trails as the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

Absolutely. If I could pick one bike to do it all, I’d likely pick up a 
Clem L frame. It crosses my mind often actually because I’ve always looked 
for the “one” bike to do it all. 
On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:57:00 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> VERY interesting! 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully 
> appreciate this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable. 
>
> Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a question 
> about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.
>
> He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet brazed 
> (the Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The Susie also 
> fits a slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; Susie fit a 2.6. 
> Other than that - they are similar!"
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as my 
>> mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in quite a 
>> while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It was 
>> supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t 
>> show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no mention 
>> of them for a while. 
>>
>> I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. I 
>> love my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem L 
>> seems to be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head tube 
>> angle and fork rake. 
>>
>> My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I don’t 
>> think it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part of it. The 
>> extra height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the chunky stuff as 
>> well. The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring forward when I 
>> get on it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and it is 
>> perfect for that. Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as can 
>> be. The Susie has more flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love the 
>> way the Susie rides. 
>>
>> My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not a 
>> fair comparison in upright sitting. The Susie is very upright and my Clem 
>> not so much. Funny thing, I thought I was faster on the Clem. This week I 
>> am using the Susie and I’m actually slightly faster on it while feeling 
>> like I’m not working as hard. According to my gps data on my usual daily 
>> routes. Only 2 days so far so I’ll see if that holds true all week. 
>>
>> You won’t match a full squish bike on a Gus or Susie but the riding is 
>> still a blast! Just different. I had a jones LWB complete and I would 
>> definitely recommend the Susie over that. Jones makes a great bike in 
>> theory, but I think they (the completes at least) are wastefully overbuilt. 
>> It was several lbs heavier than my Susie and the slowest I have ever been 
>> while riding a bike. My Susie has a more plush ride than the Jones did and 
>> is a better ride in all ways.
>>
>> Not sue I’ve said anything useful in my rambling but I highly recommend 
>> the Susie! I’m sure the Gus is equally awesome though! I think if you have 
>> your Clem set up for commuting and the Gus/Susie set up for trails there 
>> isn’t too much of an overlap to justify one. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 6:39:49 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
>>> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
>>> and a Clem L?
>>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
>>> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the 
>>> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
>>> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
>>> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
>>> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
>>> like to ride on the full squish bike.
>>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable 
>>> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding 
>>> a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a 
>>> bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>>>
>>> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

VERY interesting! 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Kim Hetzel  wrote:
> 
> 
> I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully appreciate 
> this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable. 
> 
> Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a question 
> about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.
> 
> He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet brazed (the 
> Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The Susie also fits a 
> slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; Susie fit a 2.6. Other 
> than that - they are similar!"
> 
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as my 
>> mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in quite a 
>> while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It was 
>> supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t show 
>> up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no mention of them 
>> for a while. 
>> 
>> I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. I love 
>> my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem L seems to 
>> be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head tube angle and 
>> fork rake. 
>> 
>> My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I don’t think 
>> it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part of it. The extra 
>> height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the chunky stuff as well. 
>> The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring forward when I get on 
>> it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and it is perfect for 
>> that. Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as can be. The Susie 
>> has more flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love the way the Susie 
>> rides. 
>> 
>> My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not a fair 
>> comparison in upright sitting. The Susie is very upright and my Clem not so 
>> much. Funny thing, I thought I was faster on the Clem. This week I am using 
>> the Susie and I’m actually slightly faster on it while feeling like I’m not 
>> working as hard. According to my gps data on my usual daily routes. Only 2 
>> days so far so I’ll see if that holds true all week. 
>> 
>> You won’t match a full squish bike on a Gus or Susie but the riding is still 
>> a blast! Just different. I had a jones LWB complete and I would definitely 
>> recommend the Susie over that. Jones makes a great bike in theory, but I 
>> think they (the completes at least) are wastefully overbuilt. It was several 
>> lbs heavier than my Susie and the slowest I have ever been while riding a 
>> bike. My Susie has a more plush ride than the Jones did and is a better ride 
>> in all ways.
>> 
>> Not sue I’ve said anything useful in my rambling but I highly recommend the 
>> Susie! I’m sure the Gus is equally awesome though! I think if you have your 
>> Clem set up for commuting and the Gus/Susie set up for trails there isn’t 
>> too much of an overlap to justify one. 
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 6:39:49 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
>>> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
>>> and a Clem L?
>>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most comfortable 
>>> bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the bike that I 
>>> am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full suspension 
>>> bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good off road 
>>> and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept me from 
>>> giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I like to 
>>> ride on the full squish bike.
>>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable on 
>>> these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding a 
>>> rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a bike 
>>> that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>>> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Richard Rose]

Interesting stuff. Yeah, my Clem being a current geo “Low” with Bosco’s 
probably has more in common with your Susie than with your Clem. I am very 
upright on it & it simply glides through twisty but smooth singletrack. I only 
have 1.9” / 48mm tires (Gravelking SS) on it. I imaging a Susie would be a bit 
stiffer & plusher with 2.6” or so tires. I am actually experimenting right now 
with swept back bars on the suspended bike in a (futile?) effort to get into a 
more Clem - like position on it. Apples & oranges I fear…

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 10:11 AM, Ryan Frahm  wrote:
> 
> Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as my 
> mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in quite a 
> while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It was 
> supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t show 
> up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no mention of them 
> for a while. 
> 
> I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. I love 
> my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem L seems to be 
> a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head tube angle and fork 
> rake. 
> 
> My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I don’t think 
> it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part of it. The extra 
> height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the chunky stuff as well. 
> The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring forward when I get on it. 
> I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and it is perfect for that. 
> Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as can be. The Susie has more 
> flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love the way the Susie rides. 
> 
> My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not a fair 
> comparison in upright sitting. The Susie is very upright and my Clem not so 
> much. Funny thing, I thought I was faster on the Clem. This week I am using 
> the Susie and I’m actually slightly faster on it while feeling like I’m not 
> working as hard. According to my gps data on my usual daily routes. Only 2 
> days so far so I’ll see if that holds true all week. 
> 
> You won’t match a full squish bike on a Gus or Susie but the riding is still 
> a blast! Just different. I had a jones LWB complete and I would definitely 
> recommend the Susie over that. Jones makes a great bike in theory, but I 
> think they (the completes at least) are wastefully overbuilt. It was several 
> lbs heavier than my Susie and the slowest I have ever been while riding a 
> bike. My Susie has a more plush ride than the Jones did and is a better ride 
> in all ways.
> 
> Not sue I’ve said anything useful in my rambling but I highly recommend the 
> Susie! I’m sure the Gus is equally awesome though! I think if you have your 
> Clem set up for commuting and the Gus/Susie set up for trails there isn’t too 
> much of an overlap to justify one. 
> 
>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 6:39:49 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates about 
>> additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie and 
>> a Clem L?
>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most comfortable 
>> bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the bike that I 
>> am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full suspension 
>> bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good off road and 
>> on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept me from giving 
>> it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I like to ride on 
>> the full squish bike.
>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable on 
>> these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding a 
>> rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a bike 
>> that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4e5172fd-1ba5-4401-b965-19799e75f813n%40googlegroups.com.

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To view this discussion on 

[RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Kim Hetzel]

I own a 2021 59cm Clem Smith Jr. "L". I am just beginning to fully 
appreciate this bicycle beyond it being very comfortable. 

Awhile back, I asked Will Keating from Rivendell Bicycle Works a question 
about the differences between the Suzie and the Clem.

He said, "The Susie is longer, has lighter tubing, and is fillet brazed 
(the Clems are tig welded) which makes them more expensive. The Susie also 
fits a slightly bigger tire - Clems max out at around 2.4; Susie fit a 2.6. 
Other than that - they are similar!"

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.



On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as my 
> mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in quite a 
> while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It was 
> supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t 
> show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no mention 
> of them for a while. 
>
> I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. I 
> love my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem L 
> seems to be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head tube 
> angle and fork rake. 
>
> My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I don’t 
> think it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part of it. The 
> extra height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the chunky stuff as 
> well. The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring forward when I 
> get on it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and it is 
> perfect for that. Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as can 
> be. The Susie has more flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love the 
> way the Susie rides. 
>
> My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not a 
> fair comparison in upright sitting. The Susie is very upright and my Clem 
> not so much. Funny thing, I thought I was faster on the Clem. This week I 
> am using the Susie and I’m actually slightly faster on it while feeling 
> like I’m not working as hard. According to my gps data on my usual daily 
> routes. Only 2 days so far so I’ll see if that holds true all week. 
>
> You won’t match a full squish bike on a Gus or Susie but the riding is 
> still a blast! Just different. I had a jones LWB complete and I would 
> definitely recommend the Susie over that. Jones makes a great bike in 
> theory, but I think they (the completes at least) are wastefully overbuilt. 
> It was several lbs heavier than my Susie and the slowest I have ever been 
> while riding a bike. My Susie has a more plush ride than the Jones did and 
> is a better ride in all ways.
>
> Not sue I’ve said anything useful in my rambling but I highly recommend 
> the Susie! I’m sure the Gus is equally awesome though! I think if you have 
> your Clem set up for commuting and the Gus/Susie set up for trails there 
> isn’t too much of an overlap to justify one. 
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 6:39:49 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
>> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
>> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
>> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
>> and a Clem L?
>> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
>> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the 
>> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
>> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
>> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
>> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
>> like to ride on the full squish bike.
>> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable 
>> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding 
>> a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a 
>> bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
>> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
>> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>>
>>

-- 
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[RBW] Re: Susie / Gus questions

[Ryan Frahm]

Hello! I picked up a Susie in the last run and have been using it as my 
mountain bike. That said, I have not ridden a suspension bike in quite a 
while. I did see the email that a second run was going to happen. It was 
supposed to be spring this year I think but since the ones I got didn’t 
show up till then I’m sure it will be next year at this point, no mention 
of them for a while. 

I haven’t ridden a Clem L so I can’t say, I do have a Clem H though. I love 
my Clem! The H has a little bit steeper head tube, the new Clem L seems to 
be a slightly closer spec to a Gus or Susie as far as head tube angle and 
fork rake. 

My Susie feels like riding on a cloud compared to the Clem and I don’t 
think it is just the tire size but I’m sure it plays a good part of it. The 
extra height of the BB on the Susie is very welcome in the chunky stuff as 
well. The tubes on the Susie feel full of like and spring forward when I 
get on it. I ride the Clem daily towing my daughter around and it is 
perfect for that. Load the Clem up with whatever and it is stable as can 
be. The Susie has more flex. Not sure if a Gus feels stiffer but I love the 
way the Susie rides. 

My Clem has an albatross bar and I have bosco’s on the Susie. So not a fair 
comparison in upright sitting. The Susie is very upright and my Clem not so 
much. Funny thing, I thought I was faster on the Clem. This week I am using 
the Susie and I’m actually slightly faster on it while feeling like I’m not 
working as hard. According to my gps data on my usual daily routes. Only 2 
days so far so I’ll see if that holds true all week. 

You won’t match a full squish bike on a Gus or Susie but the riding is 
still a blast! Just different. I had a jones LWB complete and I would 
definitely recommend the Susie over that. Jones makes a great bike in 
theory, but I think they (the completes at least) are wastefully overbuilt. 
It was several lbs heavier than my Susie and the slowest I have ever been 
while riding a bike. My Susie has a more plush ride than the Jones did and 
is a better ride in all ways.

Not sue I’ve said anything useful in my rambling but I highly recommend the 
Susie! I’m sure the Gus is equally awesome though! I think if you have your 
Clem set up for commuting and the Gus/Susie set up for trails there isn’t 
too much of an overlap to justify one. 

On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 6:39:49 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates 
> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available?
> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike?
> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie 
> and a Clem L?
> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most 
> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the 
> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full 
> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good 
> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept 
> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I 
> like to ride on the full squish bike.
> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable 
> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding 
> a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a 
> bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to 
> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued.
> Appreciate any comments / thoughts.
>
>

-- 
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