[RE-wrenches] eGauge login info for Blue Planet owners
Hi, Mechanics~ Blue Planet gave us a whole three days notice before shutting down their customer facing web monitor. The handy BPE_eGauge Guide .pdf file to help with our transition failed to include the username & password that end users need in order to get their data direct from eGauge. If any of the Wrenchies need this for their installed customer base, contact me off list. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Redundant gensets: Must I switch the neutral in the manual transfer switch?
Hi, Mechanix~ My off grid project gig has redundant 120y208 generators that need a 200a "break before make" manual transfer switch so the clients can choose machine A or machine B. The switch has a lockable center-off but I think the generators aren't set up for "lock out tag out". The machines & the xfer switch will all be indoors and about 10 feet apart. The AC power wires from each generator will be hard-wired to the transfer switch & piped in EMT. I had planned for the transfer switch to have a "solid neutral" bus bar (& I had planned to bond Neutral to Ground in that box), but a consulting EE tells me the neutral must be switched along with the three hots. The project is too remote to have an AHJ, but the clients have requested a wet stamp from the EE. I think his rationale is related to the N-G bond point location. When I asked about his suggested location, the EE wrote: "The N-G bond will be at each generator, so the neutral will be generated at the generator providing power to the facilities." Mick resumes: The genset installation document says "The generator set is shipped from the factory with the neutral and equipment ground not bonded together." So...these gensets are not like those portables where it's difficult to isolate the neutral. I've attached an image that shows what the EE is advocating. The manual xfer switch that I wish to use isn't made in "four poles" without going to the 400 amp version and the 400a switch won't physically fit the available space. Can I make a credible case for the transfer switch being the "point of first disconnect" instead of each generator taking turns at being the POFD? If the transfer switch is also the bond point, can't the Neutral from each generator happily meet at the neutral bus bar? OR: might the EE have a concern about a loop (from the Neutral of one genset through the bus bar then showing up on the terminal strip for the other genset? Code citations would be appreciated along with your advice, Wrenchies. During service intervals, both engines will be running for a brief interval. Example: Gen A may be carrying the loads while the mechanic manually runs Gen B as he completes an oil change. If I wire it as the EE wishes, will both running machines play well safety-wise if each genset has a N-G bond (with the equipment ground as their only common connection)? How would the safety aspects change if both machines are running but I've wired things per my original concept? Thanks as always, Mechanix. "The Wrench List is the Bomb!" Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] State of Charge Meter for Sol-Ark
Me again, Mechanics, with some corrections to my recent post. Solar Assistant may not be a US based provider. They publish pricing in US dollars but I was unable to log in or create an account. Watts247.com claims to be the only authorized US distributor. https://watts247.com/product/solar-assistant-remote-monitoring-mpp-solar-growatt-deye-sol-ark-sunsynk-and-many-bmss/ but their pricing pushes the system cost well above the cost for a TriMetric. I apologize for uploading wrong/incomplete information before, thanks. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] State of Charge Meter for Sol-Ark
~ This is yet another worthwhile topic with the Mechanics ~ Chris Mason wrote: "If you know someone who can set up a little raspberry pi with a display, you try this script. It's called solark-modbus." I did a google for Solark "raspberry pi" & the first link took me to this: https://solar-assistant.io/explore/solark For an amateur like me, getting the hardware and software from Solar Assistant has a lot of appeal, even if it costs more than a home brew setup. How 'bout that "single source accountability"? Original poster Jason Szumlanski may appreciate the video that I've linked below. The video creator connected a touch screen display directly to his Solar Assistant box: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXOVVMOGfNM I may try the S-A bundle with an EG4 battery for some off gridders in crisis. Their old Outback system doesn't even have a TriMetric monitor, but for about the same price as a TM-2020, we could get the SOC data, etc. directly from the BMS. I'd use the client's computer instead of a touch screen to keep the cost down. Acknowledged (to William Miller's point) the data would be no better than what the BMS can deliver. "Any port in a storm," however, and my new friends off the grid are in a terrible storm. As always, "The Wrench List is the Bomb!" Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Dab Esybox Mini 3 pump
Hi, Dave Angelini & All~ Dave posted his usual thoughtful remarks, reminding us that "Murphy" of the infamous law is...everywhere... My reply is below his remarks, thanks. "No experience but I am interested. I see your pump but it has not been out there long. I can't find it a Home Depot which I depend on for really remote clients. Can you get one fixed in the US or parts? Will it be affected by well water? The Scala2 has had failures and seems to last 3 years if the input water has sediment. Grundfos is a pain but they are there and will help for 2 years. Home Depot will give your money back if you use their CC for a year. All ears on this one!" Mick replies: I think the "home office" is in Italy & the earliest youtube video on the Esybox Mini was in 2015...so it does have some track time. They call it Mini3 now because they've changed to three vanes in the pump. Here's the contacts page for DAB USA for the intrepid seekers among us: https://dabpumps.us/en/CONTACTS A home sized pressurizing pump with updateable firmware--is that a good thing? But I digress. I gotta hold back on this until/unless there's more feedback from success stories in the field. I'm too old to continue my "earlier adopter" ways. "Do you know how to tell who the pioneers are? They're the ones with arrows in their back." Thanks, Dave, for your always helpful participation. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Dab Esybox Mini 3 pump
Hi, Mechanics~ Any experiences with the pump in my subject line? It's variable speed (constant pressure) in a similar category as Grundfos Scala2. I see the Scala2 has garnered some bad reviews for leakage problems, etc. The Esybox Mini seems to mostly have 5 stars. I'd be using it with an unpressurized holding tank, & prolly I can arrange for flooded suction. Thanks in advance. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius USA available 2023 & 2024 ?
Hi, Team and >>gosh<< I must apologize to connell.christop...@fronius.com and to Fronius. I'm sorry that I inadvertently fueled an untrue rumor about Fronius USA. Chris, I should have tracked you down for the correct answer before putting my question on the List. I will also correct this with my Greentech branch manager on Monday, Heaven permitting. I freaked out when my Greentech rep told me Fronius had left the building but I'm glad I don't have to re-shop the string inverter component after all. I did an AC coupled off grid project using Fronius Symo in 2019: No Drama, No Trauma. For those Wrenches who've wondered, "Why, Mick, why..." about off grid AC coupling: most of the rooftops that need PV for my 2023 opportunity will be inconvenient for running DC wires to the battery location. These same rooftops, however, will have AC sub-panels close by, so I had an "A-ha, negative loads!" moment. At least some of the PV will run through a charge controller in any case. I think the wattage from any AC coupled string inverters won't show up on Schneider Insight, so that's another reason for me to heed those Wrenches who suggest DC coupling for all of the PV. Thanks to all who've contributed to this thread. I think the thread should now extinguish & moderator Michael may wish to delete it from the archives. I appreciate accessing the "hive mind" on various 2023 PV inverters and again, Chris, I'm sorry to have caused a temporary smudge on Fronius USA. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Fronius USA available 2023 & 2024 ?
Hi, Mechanix~ I asked a Greentech location about quantity four Fronius string inverter PRIMO 6.0-1. (6kW AC output, single phase 240 volt 60 hz) This p/n is in the Greentech portal but my particular branch hasn't done much with Fronius. Today the branch manager told me "Fronius no longer exists." Can any of you confirm or correct this report? I have an off-grid opportunity for which I wish to AC couple some of the PV. If Fronius USA has indeed "left the building", are there other string inverters that can be selected for country code "off grid 60 hz"? I'd like for the PV inverters to only curtail their output wattage if there's a frequency shift from the grid forming inverter (frequency/watt). Schneider XW Pro units would be forming the grid. Schneider has a white paper # 990-6421 on AC coupling but this document is almost three years old & no help at all in finding compatible PV inverters. Rapid shutdown is not mandated for this gig & each array would be evenly illuminated. IIRC, the List hasn't been highly enamored with SolarEdge in recent years; is that still the consensus? Thanks as always; the Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] 200a manual xfer switch w/ small aux contact : who makes it?
Hi, Mechanix~ My off grid project needs dual 40kW diesel generators with easy manual selection between "A" or "B". The output from the manual switch would feed AC into a set of XW Pro inverter/chargers. I seek a 200a manual xfer switch that can also changeover the 12v+ generator automation wire with the same handle. Schneider DTU324N is 3 phase (solid neutral) so that does get me a third blade but since the trigger wire is only a few amps this p/n seems like overkill on size/weight and on cost. The manual switch unit doesn't need to make or break live power because folks always tend to shut down any nearby noisy engine before they do any switching. We also don't need 100k short circuit current rating because the machines can't fault as big as grid power can. Non-fusible seems best b/c each genset will have a 200a main breaker. I'd prefer to buy the switch inside a NEMA1 enclosure rather than getting a bare switch that would require me to mount it into a housing. The project won't be code inspected, so thanks in advance for any suggestions. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Outback Mate3SL = no web monitor due to a chip shortage
Hi, Mechanix~ Is the Mate3S in short supply for mid to late 2023? I see there's a "Lite" version with no internet capability--but are enough projects buying the Lite so those who want the full version can still get it from inventory? Thanks in advance; the Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Web based system monitoring via 4GLTE uplink?
Hi, Mechanix~ Web portals such as Optics-RE make for easy well-baby visits for off gridders. The prospective customers that I met yesterday aren't here full time so they may not want to commit $1200/year on satellite internet service, but the Verizon 4G signal is strong at the homesite. Which web-enabled battery based inverter platforms have a dongle for 4G LTE? I know we'd need a data type SIM card & I'd need to live with a slow refresh rate so the SIM wouldn't need data replenishment too often. This wouldn't be as good as if the site had real broadband, but maybe still better than nothing. So far, I've only found this type of accy with the Victron platform: their model GX LTE. Among the other platforms & hybrid inverters I've found next to nothing, but "the Wrench List is the Bomb" at knowing things that I don't. Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thanks in advance, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Lithium upgrade when Magnasine goes to float too soon
Hi, Mechanix~ I have several local clients with various different versions of Magnum pure sine inverters & all of the inverters seem to transition to the float stage soon after the charge cycle begins. I've observed this even when the inverters & batteries were brand new. I'm aware of the menus about adjusting the bulk time duration but even adjusting that to the longest setting never helped. Since these clients are all off grid with no generator automation, I just tweaked the float voltage to match the bulk voltage then instructed the clients to turn off their generator when the target voltage appears on their display. The batteries were always lead acid floodies. Now that some of these clients need better batteries (& I hope they can afford transitioning to lithium), are there any mfr's for drop in replacement lithium which don't care if the gen-powered charger can't shift downward for the float voltage? The customers' PV chargers all have a float function that does work right. I know that Blue Planet suggests 55.2v DC for all charge stages, but my Magnum systems are all either 12v nominal or 24v nominal, so I'll need to find a different brand that builds the lower voltage batteries. The clients can still shut down the generator when the target voltage is reached, but what if they fail to shut down soon after the setpoint is reached? I wouldn't want to put anybody's battery warranty at risk due to this strange charging quirk. Also, I'd like to know if any other Wrenchies have noticed this peculiarity with the Magnum inverters. Thanks in advance; the Wrench List is The Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Underground fault finder
Hi, Wrenchies~ Drake Chamberlain asked about renting a gadget to locate the point where an underground wire is broken. In my local region, the fellow who does "call before you dig" wire location services for the local power company is allowed to freelance in his off hours, using the instruments in his work vehicle. I think his particular setup is able to pinpoint the location of a wire break. Drake, it might be worth calling to see if this is an option for your project. The Wrench List is The Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] cable trays and battery cable
Hi, Mechanix~ Kirk Herander asked about cable trays & basing the wire calculations as if the wires are in "free air". The 2023 Article 100 definition of Free Air is unchanged from the 2020 NEC: 2023: "Open or ventilated environment that allows for heat dissipation and air flow around an installed conductor." However at the 2020 sessions for CMP6 Code Making Panel 6, the original draft language was: 2020 first draft: "Open or ventilated environment that allows for air flow around an installed conductor with no other conductors closer than one cable diameter and no insulation or building materials in contact with the conductor insulation for more than 75 mm (3 in.) for every 3 m (10 ft) of conductor." This is not the letter of the law since it was changed in the second draft but it does show the thinking process. I specified some cable tray recently which was "solid" on the sides & bottom (unlike some other types that are perforated or ladder style). This tray was for AC wires & the electricians did support the wires so there's ~ one cable diameter of air space around each insulated conductor. There's no forced air ventilation on this project; only natural convection via the open top of the trays. The wires were sized for "free air" conditions & there was no pushback from the AHJ. As with so many cases, this goes to the individual AHJ's interpretation, but the air-gaps seem more appropriate (compared to laying the wires in a heap) if one wants the installation to be interpreted as "free air", especially when the tray sides & bottom surface are solid as in this example. I hope this will be helpful; the Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter?
Hello, Blake Gleason & All the Mechanix~ Travis Jordan astutely suggested "David Katz's single row system on 4" posts, it would tilt to vertical and only be one mod high in portrait." Mick here: If the site would accommodate something as wide & low as what Travis described, you might ask Array Technologies if they can still furnish their DuraRack AT "adjustable tilt" mounts. These resemble their single axis Duratrack trackers, but without the automation electronics. Each one can mount 12 to 16 modules laid out like playing cards side by side. Seasonal tilt adjustment is handled by a geared down linear actuator which in turn is driven by a cordless drill. Maximum tilt is 60 degrees from horizontal; maybe that's steep enough or maybe not in Blake's extreme jobsite. I never had a suitable customer to match up with this solution, so I have no direct experience with it. It might be worth a phone call to Albuquerque 505.881.7567. As always, "The Wrench List is the Bomb!" Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 600vdc A or B switch
Hi, that SQD DTU361 suggested by Dave Tedeyan appears to have a center "off" position. The 600v Morningstar charge controller with A:B selectability doesn't have an "off" for the incoming PV. "The Wrench List is the Bomb!" Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Victron
Hello, Mechanix~ Dave Angelini had asked "if Victron is UL listed for a Grid application...?" I agree with Roberto Kruse that there's one Victron inverter/charger with a UL listing nowadays: the 24v MultiPlus rated 3KVA per unit. Some of the Victron charge controllers are also UL listed. However, "selling into the grid" is not supported by Victron in the US for now. To verify that, today I clicked the "Grid" tab in Victron's "VE Configure 3" software (which updates every time it is launched). A dozen or more "country codes" (aka grid code standards) can be selected in a drop-down but the US is not among those as of 2-6-2021. Dave had also asked, "can it easily work split phased?" To configure for 120/240 US power in the Victron platform, first one must buy Victron's USB converter dongle, pairs of identical inverter/chargers (from among the "120 volt" models), and some standard Cat5 cables. The firmware should be updated if the units are not already identical, then another piece of (free downloadable) Windows software is used to set up the phasing. I've never had a train wreck with the Victron software so far. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day
Happy Friday, Mechanix~ Drake Chamberlin wrote about the Radian inverter that began running a "too short" absorption interval after several years of normal operations. Drake said the possible culprit is inverter firmware per Outback; I wish to add a data point & follow up questions: I sold an Outback SE-830BLU-300AFCI Systemedge Package--which includes Outback batteries & all for quick deployment--to a longtime retail client in the Autumn of 2020. Firmware seems likely to be the latest version on all components since it shipped from OB so recently. The client's internet service to the site was lost along with everything else in a CA wildfire--so I can't look in remotely & I can't physically travel to the site. He has much prior experience with inverter/chargers, off grid living etc. but he's new to the Radian, Mate3s, etc. My off grid client reports his new Radian is shifting to float before the Absorption target voltage is even reached & the shift occurs around 56.1 volts battery voltage on the way up. The battery is cool, not warm. He's been through the menus & couldn't find a likely suspect for this behavior. The FM100 PV controller on the same system is able to push the battery to the absorption target then hang there as would be expected before it shifts to float. That's if the daylight lasts long enough, of course. As with Drake's client, my friend needs to be able to pump the battery to a higher state of charge with his generator than what he's getting. His upscale (but lead acid) Outback BLU batteries we bought in the package seem at risk of harm due to this problem--& I'm sure Drake has similar concerns. I asked the client to reboot the generator AC (breaker off, then back on) to see if he could push the battery closer to the absorb voltage that way but I am still waiting for that answer. Thanks to the clues & cues from Drake, I'll cut & paste this into a trouble ticket with OB. While waiting for that to percolate through the system, here's one more question for the hive mind: * When a Systemedge Package is purchased complete with batteries & all, are the chargers & the FNDC battery monitor already pre-programmed for the battery type & size? Here's hoping, and as always, the Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Modifying a plumbing vent
Hi, William Miller & the Wrenches~ This product line may be of interest to the thread: https://solarroofjack.com/ & the article linked below references 2016 revisions in the IAPMO standards & the IBC to address "diverting vent terminals". https://solarbuildermag.com/products/details-on-a-code-change-that-allows-for-solar-panels-above-plumbing-vent-pipes/ Please note this solution seems specific to ABS vent materials with no mention of PVC. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Puzzle: Dryer does not work during FXR battery charging
Hello, Mechanix~ Matt Sherald wrote about his dryer puzzle. I suggest the run capacitor solution discussed near the bottom of this webpage: http://mvvikingstar.blogspot.com/2013/03/summery-and-conclusion-compatibility.html The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Seeking one M215-60-2LL-S22-IG Enphase
Hello, Mechanics~ Enphase will "warranty replace" my client's failed unit--sort of. The ones they're shipping for replacement purposes are a different size & shape which may be a challenge to retrofit onto the Andalay PV module. Andalay was among the first "AC solar modules"--sort of. They integrate the M215 into the frame which is just fine--until now. Anyway, I may just buy one M215-60-2LL-S22-IG or the Siemens branded clone assuming that will integrate exactly the same with Enlighten, etc. Can any of the List participants confirm if the Siemens version will identically substitute? If anyone has one of these orphans (MC4 DC plugs & integrated ground), kindly contact me off-list with pricing including parcel ground shipping to CO 81147. Black or silver would be fine; new/never installed is preferred. Thanks in advance; The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] How much Li battery?
Greetings, All~ Mark Frye had asked: "...with a 4000w Outback Radian, AC coupled with 2000w of PV, what is the smallest Li battery I would want for stable operation?" Mick's reply: In the lithium arena, one often finds the ratings in kilowatt-hours rather than in amp-hours. This is an easy conversion for us energy nerds to make, so below I'm mainly using watts & watt-hours with occasional conversions to amp-hours. I suggest that you start with the spec sheet (of whichever brand lithium battery is on your radar), & see what the manufacturer says about "allowable rate of recharge". You may find that C/2 is an acceptable rate with several manufacturers, Mark--much faster than what we're accustomed to with typical lead-acid batteries. Let's assume: * ...that your AC coupled PV array crests around 1800 watts to the battery when there are no loads * ...that the battery is below 100% state of charge, and * ...that the solar conditions are optimal. Let's further assume that those conditions represent your battery's highest energy rate in either direction. 1800w X two hours = 3,600 watt-hours dividing by 48v nominal = 75 amp-hours in the above hypothetical situation. ++ The rate at which a battery can receive energy is (usually) also the rate at which it can comfortably deplete, so let's briefly look at the flip side: Assuming the battery mfr. wants the watt-hours to be no less than two times the maximum wattage, a 3600 watt-hour (C/2) battery should not be depleted faster than 1800 watts. Your 4kW Radian, Mark, could exceed that if the loads demand it--& maybe your loads don't. Motor starting surges should probably be part of the thinking & it wouldn't hurt to ask the mfr.'s opinion about short term surges which briefly deplete the battery faster than the hypothetical two hour rate. By approaching this question based on the battery manufacturer do's & don'ts, one improves the chance of getting warranty coverage should it later be needed. "What the large print giveth, the fine print taketh away." The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Seeking Magnum MP-ODE outdoor enclosure
Hello, Mechanix~ I've just learned Magnum's rainproof box to protect a single inverter, cc & mini panel is factory discontinued. My usual wholesalers don't have any leftovers. I spotted one in Ohio but the eBay seller doesn't want to ship it. If anyone knows where I might find one of these in the rusty & dusty bin, please contact me off list. Thanks in advance, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging
Hello, Jeff & All~ In the world of high end yachts, the crew needs to be able to plug in and charge in various regions of the world. Some marine oriented battery chargers are "universal input" & designed to run from 90v to 265 volts, 50/60 hz according to one spec sheet for the Victron Phoenix. The actual frequency tolerance may be more wide than what the specs say; check the manual to be sure. Jeff's suggested strategy puts the charger/battery/inverter in between the messy grid power and the loads. It's sort of a power quality buffer. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Two MPPT Charge Controllers, One PV Circuit
Greetings, Wrenchies~ Matt Sherald's subject today resembles a client inquiry that is on my radar this week--perfect timing! Dave Angelini & All~ What if only the PV array negatives are in parallel but the PV positives are divided across more than one charge controller? My client is on the Outback platform instead of Schneider, the battery negative is grounded & by extension the PV negatives are also grounded. Client has no DC GFI since it's an older installation & he would add three Flexmax 80 controllers; we'll put appropriate DC breakers on each PV+ & Battery+ controller wire. Client's Mate 1 is old school so the revved up Flexmax 100 (with no built in display) is not of much interest in this case. The reason the client needs to share PV negative across the controllers is it's a retrofit situation with some wires in place & no simple way to add more. No inspectors are involved & I see no technical problem. Your thoughts? The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Cybo Energy
Hello, Gary & All~ Cybo Energy is one of those rare companies where one can actually speak with the top guy. George Cheng, PhD, is their resident genius & communications with him are prompt & pleasant. I really appreciate that top level access. +1 to Cybo for innovation--they keep boldly taking their Cybo micro inverter line into new territory & carrying the UL listing with them. Running motorized loads on a "sun direct" basis always seemed a bit of a stretch because of pesky things like motor startup surge & inductive loading...so my only experience has been with their water heating type inverters where the resistive load always has a power factor of one. -1 to Cybo for not having a crazy long warranty to match other micro inverters, but Dr. Cheng is persuaded that would put them in a high risk situation. He's probably right about that because--hey--25 years is a long time. Around 2013, I was an early adopter on their water heating inverter. I mounted it indoors so there would be no heat loading on the case & I had to be very creative to contain the insulated wiring. I also was careful with ohm's law when choosing the resistive load (sending heat to an aquaculture tank) & I vetted the load resistance with George. The unit failed...& it seems like that was less than a year after initial power-up; George replaced it with their improved version but that also failed after a couple of years & the company was not willing to stand for another replacement. George told me that the unit had been re-designed again; to him that meant we should be happy to pay again because it's so much better. To me that meant the R & D was being done on the customer's nickel & my client declined to buy another one. I had paired it with four 60 cell LG Neons--around 330 watts each in that era. George told me that their early components were suffering due to the input DC voltage but he says now they're OK even for 72 cell modules. I have no other sales opportunities for it these daze, however, so someone else needs to try it & report back to the list after a few years. Telltale sign for the power pioneers: they're the ones with the arrows in their backs. On a brighter note: The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Cutting rail
Hello, Team~ This fine discussion has me considering a cordless bandsaw (28v Milwaukee). Can those who own a burly cordless bandsaw report if it's also productive on mild steel? We'll need to saw some C-purlin, square tubing, etc. in steel & using a grit wheel on a chop saw is harsh. Thanks in advance, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] heating lithium in cold weather
Hello, Jay & All~ Anytime the battery mfr. has a solution that is pre-baked into their product--that's +1 for avoiding later warranty disputes, etc. I'm glad to learn that LifeBlue is doing a "divert the charge DC method" for cold lithiums, which seems quite logical to me. ReLion brand lithium does the same "divert the charge until the battery warms" method in their LT (low temperature) products such as this: https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb100-lt but their LT's are 12v only & no bigger than 100 ah so far. List readers who'd like to connect 12v lithium monoblocs in series for a higher voltage pack...should not try that without mfr. approval. Series connection is old hat for lead acid monoblocs but tried & true assumptions may no longer hold. ReLion has UL certification across the board, methinks--check to make sure. ReLion has a "minimum advertised price" policy which should help the skilled tradespeople on this List. Another "cold friendly" feature with ReLion is: So long as the charging amperage is below 10% of the battery's rated ampacity (slower than a ten hour rate of charge), ReLion doesn't care how cold their normal lithiums are during recharge. Please double check that point with ReLion technical before, um, banking on it but that was their official corporate position in 2018. ++ I know at least one other mfr that offers their own baked in heating option (although it's not a "divert charge energy until the battery warms" method). This mfr. is Lithionics based in FL. Here's a document about their heat setup: https://lithionicsbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Lithionics-Battery-Heater-Kit-Option.pdf Note they can accommodate various pack voltages with this solution & they do a fair to good job of scaling bigger if that's needed. Lithionics architecture requires their BMS "battery management system" but it's also charger agnostic & doesn't require communication to the charger. If your capacity needs scale beyond one of their BMS units (and if I understood their explanation correctly) each BMS calculates its state of charge independent of the others even though the cells are ganged up as a bigger battery. Maybe that's a drawback, esp if one wants to view & use that data for user fuel gauge purposes. I hope this will be helpful info for the group. The Wrench List is the Bomb~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] IEEE 1547-2018 standard
Hello, Mechanix~ I don't want to actually own the standards document mentioned above...but does anyone have a summary for the behaviors that are required? I'm especially interested in the anti-islanding functions for 120/240 split phase 60 hz. I'll bet it's something like a window of acceptable voltage range, another window of acceptable frequency, and xyz milliseconds before the compliant device must disconnect if the power parameters are out of bounds. Ziehl.de builds this type of control in Europe but they haven't been asked about IEEE 1547-2018 before, so they've asked me to describe the functions. Acknowledged that many inverters already comply with this but I need the discrete control unit for something weird. I'll spare you the details. Thanks in advance, the Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tell me what I'm missing on 690.12 B(2)? Where does it say "module-level???"
Scot Arey wrote: > "How did “module-level” shutdown get taken as gospel truth?? I’m thinking a Fronius Primo with its RSD Quattro device mounted on an > array rail meets current 2017 code." Mick here: The issue is that if a Fronius type PV "string" is interrupted at the edge of the array, one still has open circuit voltage on the string that's much higher than the 80 volt limit. The MLPE "module level power electronics"--whether they're microinverters or DC optimizers--snub any sum of AC or DC voltage below 80 when they're in shutdown mode. Both of those solutions also optimize to the level of individual PV modules & they provide granular metering of the energy deliveries--but I assume those benefits are of little value to the project you're planning, Scot. I don't know the availability status for Midnite's SOB "Shut Off Box", but this segments the PV string during shutdown & it gets the voltage below 80 without the expense of optimization & granular monitoring. There are still "electronics" behind each PV module because these shutoffs are triggered by radio but it's not MLPE in the usual sense & the cost is relatively low since all they're doing is opening contactors. I hope this reply is helpful. The Wrench List is The Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] How can I mount one B-frame 3 phase breaker into an indoor box? (no UL needed)
Hello, Mechanix~ Square D BDL36100 caught my eye because it's a "unit mount" circuit breaker as in "bolt it down" & it also will mount to a DIN rail. This could serve my AC purpose better than their fusible disconnect H363, but I need to find an indoor type box to mount the breaker--preferably where the toggle pokes out the front & with adequate clearances, etc. "Why, Mick...oh why?" My possible project is ten time zones away from the nearest code inspector & it's off the grid. It's also ten time zones away from replacement fuses for the H363 so that's why I'm asking the group if anyone has ideas for the right box. "Service disconnect" rating is not required since it'll be connected to an engine generator with finite ability to feed a fault. The energy is British style 50 hz 3 phase in a wye pattern, 230 volts from each phase to the neutral & 415 volts phase to phase. UL markings are not required but maybe there's a panel board builder somewhere that already knows how to mount one in a box for me, or maybe I can do it myself if I get a jumping off point. Any inspirations would be heartily welcomed as usual. The Wrench List is the Bomb~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Shopping for an irradiance sensor that can connect to LAN local area network
Thanks for the responses on this subject line. Beyond polling the Wrenches I reached out to various suppliers. The Wrench comments that the sensor itself is always RS-485 seem borne out by my separate research. Some sensor vendors are integrating the necessary accessories for connection straight to the LAN local area network--Rainwise PVmet-100 is one example although their irradiance sensor doesn't mount in the plane of the PV array. Other sensor vendors point to third party suppliers to convert the raw sensor feed into actionable data. This probably costs less in money if I can acquire the additional know how. We can close the thread now; Thanks & Jolliness. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Shopping for an irradiance sensor that can connect to LAN local area network
Hello, Mechanix~ Any leads on finding this item would be appreciated. I'd like the sensor to be mounted in the same plane as the PV array. I think the communication protocol I need for this is Modbus/TCP. Thanks & Jolliness~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM
Allan S. sent follow up queries after my response to Drake's dilemma. Allan's queries are pasted below. Mick here: Sorry I didn't state my suggestion more clearly but, yes, in this situation the only way to know if the battery is worth trying to salvage is to pump it up nicely with a bunch of energy (meeting the battery mfr's "full charge parameters" or as close as possible)...shut off the generator & shut off the solar array...set the Tri-Metric (or other shunt based monitor) to measure "amp hours from full" & make sure the counter is starting at 0.00 amp hours from full...then impose loads on the battery bank & let it all run until the inverter shuts off due to low battery voltage. (The loads don't have to impose a steady "20 hour discharge rate" & we're not trying for laboratory accuracy. To give the battery a fair chance at proving its mettle, be sure the discharge rate is equitably chosen for the battery type & temperature, etc. To be "equitable", the servicing technician should run the test in a way that doesn't ask the battery to perform miraculously...just to perform within its design parameters.) Allan correctly states that 1.75 volts per cell is the "industry standard" discharge cut off point for lead acid batteries (@ 25 degrees C) so if the system is 48v nominal, that's 24 cells X 1.75 = 42.0 volts as the setpoint for the inverter's LBCO "low battery cutoff function". The amp-hour monitor will display the number of amp-hours that the battery was able to deliver before the inverter crashed on voltage & that value can be compared to the original rated capacity. So...although I must have muddled my explanation, Allan, the Tri-Metric type monitors can indeed measure & display the battery's amp-hour capacity. One must eliminate solar recharge during the test & any other variables such as generator run time...then there's only a battery, an inverter, some loads, and the amp-hour counting gizmo. >>An unhealthy battery will reach the failure point in a fairly short amount of time & for a fairly small amount of labor.<< A semi-healthy battery is a greater challenge because it takes longer to wring them out & the service tech may opt to educate the client on how to complete the "pump & dump" measurement after the tech leaves the site. If the client can be persuaded to install a shunt & an amp-hour meter, they'll also have better instrumentation in place to help them & their service technician down the road. Some clients will want to try an EQ charge or other measures & the ah counter will be able to display any improvements that result from those efforts...or the lack of improvements. As my Dutch solar buddy would say, "Meten is Weten": "Measuring is Knowing." A battery based energy system owner who only has a DC voltmeter is like a car owner whose only instrument is a tire pressure gauge. Definitely some clients balk at the expense & new learning required to retrofit a proper ah monitor, but better instrumentation may prove a good value to them in the long run. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham -- Forwarded message -- From: Sindelar Solar To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Bcc: Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 11:40:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM Mick, While I fully agree on the importance of a monitor such as the TriMetric, I'm confused by some of what you've written below. A TriMet (or any similar monitor for LA) can measure amp-hours removed and replaced, but it can't measure & display the battery bank's amp-hour capacity. Only taking the time to drain the bank at a measured rate will do that, and I have yet to have a customer want to pay me to do a battery capacity test down to 1.75 vpc at the 20-hour rate - or any rate for that matter. The TriMet is set up such that the installer tells the TriMet the battery capacity. In a case such as this, what number would you program into the TM as the amp-hour capacity? How would you determine this value? Thanks, Allan -- *Allan Sindelar* al...@sindelarsolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 cell* Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM
Hello, Drake & All~ Drake described his service dilemma about batteries bought elsewhere & whether to correct the original hinky pack wiring (copied below). My reply below may seem cynical & I may seem too eager to declare the existing battery as: "Failed". Call me jaded. Mick's $0.02 is: If there's no amp-hour monitor in the system, I suggest you first try to persuade the homeowner to buy a metering shunt & a modest amp-hour meter such as the Tri-Metric--which could be used to measure & display the battery bank's amp-hour capacity. If the client won't approve that expenditure (& hourly labor for explanations), the service tech is hamstrung. Nobody can measure the health of a battery bank by just looking at it or talking about it...and clients sometimes receive the inevitable "battery bad news" if they are shown the diminished capacity on a digital display after an equitably managed "pump & dump". Your thought, Drake, of holding back on any re-wiring of the battery pack...seems prudent...until the first set of amp-hour measurements are recorded as a baseline. From there...a common pattern is a series of attempted remediation efforts--all for pay, of course--until the homeowner acknowledges that it's time to start afresh. Oops, I left out an important step: getting a read on whether the client has the money for new batteries or not. I'm personally terrible at getting that reconnaissance done early enough. If the client isn't materially blessed to be able to get new batteries, they might be better off spending limited funds on fuel for the engine generator instead of on battery testing & tutorials. The Wrench List is the Bomb~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Drake > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 11:41:17 -0500 > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM > Hello Wrenches, > > An owner of an existing system has a bank of twenty, 100 AH, 12 V Deep > cycle batteries of the Batcap > <http://www.xstaticbatcap.com/what-is-a-batcap-.html> > <http://www.xstaticbatcap.com/what-is-a-batcap-.html>brand. > > The bank is made up of four sets of 5 batteries in parallel to produce *500 > AH battery sets at 12 V.* These four parallel sets are then wired in > series to give a 48 V nominal bank. > > The battery voltages vary from around 13 to 15 volts. The bank is about 5 > years old. The CEO of Batcap told the system owner that these batteries > have lasted up to 30 years in solar applications, so he has high > expectations for these batteries being around for a while. > > My first impulse is to rewire the bank in a normal series - parallel > configuration. But there are too many strings to do this without a bus bar. > Besides, the batteries are likely damaged, and rewiring them might cause > the bank to exhibit unsuspected problems. How much money is worth putting > into this bank? $0? > > The owner seems like a reliable guy who likely hired the wrong installer. > He could use some help. What would you do in this situation? Rewire the > bank, leave it well enough alone or run for the hills. > > Thanks, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > > > > > > *Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified > Solar PV 740-448-7328 *http://athens-electric.com/ > > ᐧ ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Trace or Outback autotransformer: step down but source has no neutral
Greetings, Wrenchies~ Below I've pasted a visual from the Trace T240 transformer product guide, circa 2000: [image: image.png] My client's 240vAC 60 hertz source circuit has the two hots but no neutral. They'd like to run some 120v tools & appliances, hence the autoformer. I see in the diagram that a neutral from the input side is not required, but: * In that event, can I ground the newly derived neutral without causing havoc? The main home where the 240v wires originate is about 150 feet away & the AC neutral is single point grounded there. Other cautions or caveats? Thanks in advance. The Wrench List is The Bomb~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Darfon hybrid inverters
Bill asked this: Hi folks--Does anyone have contact info for Darfon inverters? I've sent emails and called their website number, but the phone rings and then disconnects. We were interested in their H5000/5001 series inverters--they look good on the internet. Anyone know if these are actual products that will be released soon? Bill Hennessy Berks Solar, LLC 371 Centennial Rd Mertztown, PA 19539 o 610 682 4300 <(610)%20682-4300> c 484 560 4666 <(484)%20560-4666> NABCEP certified installer PA contractor #44411 www.berkssolar.com Mick here suggests: I think Moore Energy (sister company to PV Racking) is distributing this line out of Southampton, PA & I think they have the DC coupled hybrids now. The AC coupled version hybrid is still a ways out but the microinverter line is shipping now. (646) 520 7673 Jing Yu is the sales lady ji...@mooreenergy.net I've not sold any or installed any of these. "I have everything I need except customers," but the specs look interesting. Be sure to report back if you get some field experience with this. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array Mock-up Software
Greetings~ The original request by Chad Waits on this subject is pasted below for reference: Wrenches, > > Wondering what you folks are using for array mock-ups in your proposal > tools. Since Bright Harvest¹s array-o-metic went black, we¹ve tried Aurora > and Helioscope, but they seem to be too time consuming and functionally > more > than what we need. All we¹re looking to do is place some simulated modules > on a satellite photo with a program that is simple enough for a salesman to > use. Any input is appreciated. > > Thanks! > > Chad Waits > President/Owner Net Zero Solar > 101 W. 5th St., Tucson, AZ 85705 > > Mick's reply: The Unirac racking design tool: http://design.unirac.com/tool/ incorporates "augmented reality" features as you described, Chad. There is a learning curve but the tool is free & it can also generate a bill of materials for Unirac brand mounting hardware. Typing in the project location kicks up a satellite photo image as the bottom layer; I prefer using the touch screen on my notebook to zoom & move the satellite image. Next, the user draws rectangles or other shapes to define the "roof boundaries'; the "Clear All" button is handy if one needs a reset. When it's time to "Draw Panels" (sic) as the next layer, one should first specify the tilt of the roof. Since the visual always shows everything as it would look from a satellite, the drawn PV modules are dimensioned differently depending on the specified roof tilt. To me, the "Roof Edge Autofill" feature is too aggressive at holding the array field back from the edges of the roof--but one can cheat that in various ways or turn it off. The tool can only accommodate standard "jumbos" so far, but did I mention it's free? Power-Fab (aka Direct Power aka Pre-formed Line Products) I hope this will be helpful information. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Conext XW+ with external transfer switch & AC coupling question
Greetings, Wrenchies~ Sorry to add noise to the List but I messed up sending the images yesterday. First attached .png image is from page 2-9 from Schneider's Conext-XW-Multi-Unit-Power-System-Design-Guide-975-0739- 01-01_Rev-C_ENG.pdf Additional details would be welcomed from the group, if available. Specifically, I need to know which xfer switches can react properly based on what the SSR "solid state relay" is doing, and if any compatible xfer switches happen to have "grid only" circuit breaker slots resembling the Generac GenReady panelboard 0054532. A spec for the ratings needed on the SSR would be helpful, as well. The challenge of that SSR physically fitting inside the transfer switch housing in a code compliant matter is another kettle of fish. ++ I'm also needy today regarding Schneider's "AC-Coupled Smart Charge"; see second attached .png image: Mick here: Conext SW is less feature rich compared to Conext XW+ but this implies that XW+ is somehow dumber in how it charges the battery. Can anyone help me understand how "AC-Coupled Dumber Charge" differs from "AC-Coupled Smart Charge"? Thanks in advance for helping me avoid "dumber choices". The Wrench List is the bomb~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Conext XW+ with external transfer switch & AC coupling question
Greetings, Wrenchies~ Below .png image is from page 2-9 from Schneider's Conext-XW-Multi-Unit-Power-System-Design-Guide-975-0739-01-01_Rev-C_ENG.pdf [image: Inline image 1] Additional details would be welcomed from the group, if available. Specifically, I need to know which xfer switches can react properly based on what the SSR "solid state relay" is doing, and if any compatible xfer switches happen to have "grid only" circuit breaker slots resembling the Generac GenReady panelboard 0054532. A spec for the ratings needed on the SSR would be helpful, as well. The challenge of that SSR physically fitting inside the transfer switch housing in a code compliant matter is another kettle of fish. ++ I'm also needy today regarding Schneider's "AC-Coupled Smart Charge"; see second .png image: [image: Inline image 2] Mick here: Conext SW is less feature rich compared to Conext XW+ but this implies that XW+ is somehow dumber in how it charges the battery. Can anyone help me understand how "AC-Coupled Dumber Charge" differs from "AC-Coupled Smart Charge"? Thanks in advance for helping me avoid "dumber choices". The Wrench List is the bomb~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Are the 2016 Enphase M's a "buy" if there's no Rule 21 mandate?
Hi, Wrenchies~ Compliance with California's Rule 21 is at least one reason why Enphase retooled their product line this year. The now discontinued M215 & M250 micro inverters are showing up on closeout so...are they worth considering for folks outside California? Or: do the other benefits of the new IQ architecture make it worth jumping across & not looking back? I understand the IQ system is more forgiving on communications & it works with 72 cell super jumbos, bigger wattage, simpler trunk cabling, etc. My project opportunity is one circuit residential, 14 to 16 sixty cell jumbos (in three rows) & we can power the Envoy from a dedicated circuit. Maybe it comes down to >> Will the IQ inverters outlast the M215/M250 on the roof? The latter have given me no problems so I'm not knocking these recent M models, but 25 years is a long time from now. Thanks in advance; the Wrench List is the Bomb~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a solar critical backup panel 10H
Hi, Mechanix~ Here are two possible solutions to Scot Arey's quest: http://sequentpower.com/ http://energysentry.com/PP-residential-controllers.php I do not have hands on experience with either of these items, Scot, so be sure to report back if you try one of these. A google for "load sequencer" may turn up additional possibilities. I hope this will be helpful. The Wrench List is the bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] "DC current Injection": Whazzat?
Hi, Wrenchies~ My client has an AC coupled battery based setup. The batteries are good ol' lead floodies in pretty good health, the battery based inverter is Magnum MS4448PAE, & the string inverter is SolarEdge. There's also a Magnum ACLD "AC Load Diversion" control to regulate battery state of charge when there's no grid power. When there's no grid power & the system is on it's own, the SE inverter sometimes throws an error code 36 "DC current injection". This happens when the mongo blender is operated (Vitamix brand, older model) & again in a >no public power grid< situation. The error causes the synchronizing string inverter to de-couple from the Magnum then the standard five minute time-out ensues before a re-couple. I think DC current injection is when the transformer-less SE inverter pumps a blip of DC into the grid--or micro-grid when there's no grid power--and I guess DC injection is IEEE verboten because it compromises power quality/power purity. Can the experts confirm if this is correct understanding, explain how DC can show up on the AC, and offer suggestions other than a replacement blender? Thanks as always. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Wanted: AC centrifugal pump with soft start
Happy Friday, Mechanix~ Sometimes I encounter "off the grid clients" who pressurize their household plumbing using an AC centrifugal pump. When the pump starts, the batteries pucker & the lights flicker. I'm on the quest for surface mounted pressurizing pumps that are fitted with AC soft start motors. Shouldn't this be an idea whose time has come? 1/3 hp or 1/2 hp should suffice, which could be handled at either 120vAC or 240vAC. The technology is already available in submersible pumps such as "Grundfos SQ"...now we just need it ported over to a surface mounted centrifugal. Thanks in advance for any leads that might help me find a supplier for this type of pump. The Wrench List is the Bomb~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Translucent Backed Modules
Hello, Chad Waits & all~ Prism Solar has a facility right there in Tucson, Chad...so you can check them out. Prism builds frameless PV laminates with bifacial cells & a clear backer sheet. In addition to a 60 cell version they also have the same jumbo size laminate with only 48 cells so more daylight can get through. Mix & match? http://www.prismsolar.com/contact.php Be sure to report your opinions & experience back to us Wrenchies. Corporate provenance regarding Prism is among my big questions: are they making a sustainable profit? Is there a wealthy parent company? I'm also curious about where their products are built. With your strong sales prospect right there in Tucson, Chad, you're ideally situated to suss out these issues...& help us all. If any friendly folk might be traveling from the Tucson area to SW Colorado, I'd sort of like to buy a Prism sample for show & tell...so if anyone could safely transport same...I'll pay for the help. I know the company through whom I would buy the laminate but it seems crazy for me to motor freight a single unit...especially since it's another of my "maybe I'll find a customer who'll buy it" gambles. BTW for those who wrote about other brands: Panasonic bifacial/clear backer seems unavailable stateside for 2016. Solarworld is showing a bifacial/clear backer product in their literature but having built one demo project these also seem unavailable stateside for 2016. The Wrench List is the bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Canadian Solar / MC4 connectors in a marine environment
Hello, Kirk~ Shoals makes a solar connector "clamshell" that might work for you. It's intended to force an unlocking tool requirement atop old style MC3 connectors which otherwise do not lock. So...maybe it won't be big enough to surround the bigger MC4 type connectors. Some sealant might be wanted inside the clamshell. Here's the factory link: http://shoals.com/products/mc3-locking-clamshells/ ...and if you need only a small quantity of these, google for shoals clamshell & you'll find resellers. The old MC3's with their rubbery gaskets may be better in a corrosive environment, just a thought...so, Kirk, if you still have MC3 tooling plus plenty of time... The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Kirk Herander <vtso...@icloud.com> > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Cc: > Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2016 17:28:13 -0400 > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Canadian Solar / MC4 connectors in a marine > environment > > Hello, > > > > I am debugging a Florida ocean-side 35 kw array using 4 year old Canadian > Solar panels, which I’ve never had a high opinion of, installed by others. > > I’ve discovered several not-so-good problems, such as low insulation > resistance through the panels, ONLY when raining, early to mid-morning > condensation, or by using the last resort of spraying the panels with a > garden house and watching the SMA inverters shut down due to failing their > self “Riso” (that’s the IRT) test creating a ground fault error. > > That aside, what’s just as interesting is that about 8 or 9 of the module > interconnections were basically oozing the aqua-blue copper tarnish. I’ve > never seen this in any installation before. Either the MC4s weren’t crimped > and tightened at the factory well, or the connectors were seated poorly, > although that doesn’t seem to be the case. BTW, I replaced all these > dubious MC4 connectors and the ground faults still occur when the panels > are wet. > > The bigger issue is the panel warranty, but is there anything on the > market which could seal these connections, perhaps a type of “clamshell” to > provide an extra layer of protection, which is removable if need be? > There’s always glue-filled heat shrink, but ideally I don’t want anything > permanent surrounding the connectors. > > Has anyone ever seen what I’m describing in a marine environment? > > > > *Kirk Herander* > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC * > > *Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1991-2016* > > *www.vermontsolarnow.com <http://www.vermontsolarnow.com>* > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > NABCEPTM 2003 Inaugural Certificant > > VT RE Incentive Program Partner > > 802.863.1202 > > > > > > > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] #2 -#8 AWG Crimpers
Kirpal asked about a lug crimp tool in the smaller sizes. I like my ILSCO ILC-10-N since it can be squozed with one hand especially in #6 heavy lugs or smaller. Hold things in position with one hand squoze with the other. The handles are cushioned; tool length is about one foot long tip to tip; it's a controlled cycle on the crimp but there's also an easy release trigger in case the die was not rotated to the ideal position for the particular lug in use. Controlled cycle is nice even if one must switch to double handing the levers because by then the lug is slightly squozed and held in place by the spring mechanism. The swage is sort of a rhomboid after crimping...instead of a hex crimp as the finished product, for instance. There are two different dies...interchangeable...but I almost never put the bigger one in place. The smaller die rotates to four positions...labeled for #8, #6, #4, #2. The bigger lug says that's for #1 for #0 but it's a two handed operation in those bigger sizes so I tend to reach for my bigger Quick-Cable crunchers instead. I think this tool was a bit spendy but it's never failed and I bought it so long ago that I can't remember what I paid. Lesson there, right? I actually lost the bigger die for awhile and ILSCO was unwilling to sell me a replacement...but then hey I found the lost child and the hairpin retaining clip has kept it from wandering again. I trust this will be helpful, Friend Khalsa. Crimp On! The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Array easily adjustable from 30 to 90 degrees
Hi, Mechanix~ I got no reports from other purchasers about the MT Solar crating packaging. My post to the List did, however, generate an ouch! from the manufacturer. Michael Welch has authorized me to relay MT's response to the List along with one of the 2015 packaging photos they sent. Here's what Janelle @ MT Solar:says: ++ Hi Mick - One of our customers mentioned your post on Wrenches regarding our freight, and I wanted to reach out again and assure you that we have made several improvements to our method. We now strap and shrink wrap our pallets with heavy-duty plastic (see attached photos) and have had good luck with this so far. Although we've had our fair share of freight hiccups, I still have never, ever seen anything like what happened with your shipment. That was truly an anomaly and I can't begin to imagine what would go through someone's head as they cut apart a pallet and tossed it around piece by piece. To this day, I haven't used Midwest Motor Freight again. I would be delighted if you'd share these photos on Wrenches, or at least give our mounts another shot and post your own experience. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the improvements. Please let me know if you still have any questions or concerns. Thank you! ++ Mick concludes: Nobody could explain why my 2014 shipment from MT Solar arrived pre-unwrapped. Worst. Freight. Experience. Ever. Maybe my bundles were dropped from a lofty height in a tall freight terminal. Maybe that unnamed trucker is Murphy. Janelle worked hard to help us and she submitted a freight claim on our behalf. Seven months later, my customer got a phat check. If given the choice between paying full price for first quality or saving hundreds with cosmetic seconds, he might have actually chosen the seconds. Once some of the Mechanix on Re-Wrenches receive MT Solar shipments in good teamster resistant condition, I'm sure Janelle and all of us would appreciate seeing your feedback.on the List. I certainly will post a follow up once I get a chance to evaluate their packaging first hand. Pristine freight arrivals are important to us all. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array easily adjustable from 30 to 90 degrees
Hi, Wrenchies~ I would like to hear feedback from other purchasers about the MT Solar crating packaging. In 2014 we bought two of their six module poletop mounts, but in our case all the protective packaging got trashed somewhere along the way. It looked less like a shipment and more like a yard sale! I suspect that a nameless trucker purposely broke down our pallets to make things easier. With bulky bundles, it's important for the packaging to be teamster resistant...so a Wrench Wreport about MT's packaging would be appreciated. I might use these poletop racks again in the future, especially if MT Solar would switch to a powder coat for the steel instead of the wet painting process they were using in 2014. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Milwaukee Sub Scanner versus Bosch D-Tect versus others?
Hello, Mechanix~ Sub Scanner was mentioned a couple of seasons back so I wonder if those who bought in could weigh in with their opinions? My main goal is to scan through composition shingles and find the trusses for anchor points...with no goofs. Also I'd like to find wall studs when scanning through synthetic stucco exterior rigid foam insulation. Bosch D-Tect 150 is a more costly version in this glorified stud finder category; that one seems to have a bigger display and no need for calibration. Could I get user opinions on that? ...and then DeWalt had their version which picked up some bad reviews and I think that was replaced with a new model so now I'm thoroughly confused but looking for installer opinions on these type products. Contact me off List if there's an extra scanner-gizmo available for purchase or for lease. Thanks in advance. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] How can I calculate ROI when the kWh rate varies through the day?
Hello, Mechanix~ A client requested a pure grid tie PV quote and of course I wish to help him project ROI return on investment. PV Watts only allows a single value to be keyed for the cents per kilowatt-hour, but my customer is on a TOU time of use billing program, so from 1 P.M. to 5 P.M. the value of his generated power is ~50% of the value during all other sunny hours. Is there a more sophisticated ROI calculation tool that allows $0.xx per kilowatt hour for one time interval then $0.yy in for a different time interval? This particular situation then also needs $0.zz for a third interval to get an accurate projection. The rooftop is skewed to the east so that skews the power delivery to benefit those hours before the value per kilowatt hour drops, so the ideal ROI tool would factor in that non-180 degree azimuth orientation, roof pitch etc. If I can think of any way to make this question more complicated, I'll post a follow up (!) Thanks in advance. The Wrench List is da bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Thirsty batteries: Daily absorb cycles on top of grid powered float
Greetings, Mechanics~ My client's (flooded lead acid) battery is in Float almost all the time, courtesy of an XW inverter stack plus public utility power while the system waits in standby. Selling to grid is not enabled for complicated reasons, so here's the problem. Each day at sunup, the Midnite charge controls implement a new 3 stage charge cycle including a lengthy absorption interval. The batteries require frequent water additions and there may be other deleterious effects from running a complete bulk/absorb charge every day on a battery that's already highly charged. Possible solutions: (1) We could tweak the Midnite settings for a short absorption interval with less gassing...but if a prolonged grid outage should develop we would wish the absorption interval had not been shortened. (2) Your suggestions here, please. The client would be willing to update and/or reconfigure their Midnite software if that would help or the client would even consider hardware revisions. We chose the Midnite controllers in 2011 largely because of their 250 volt input ceiling, btw. Thinking ahead to my future but similar projects: Does any DC charge controller know that a new absorb cycle is not needed each day provided that the battery never dropped below Float the night before? A full cycle would still be wanted every 30 days or so just to stir things up, so that's almost like a 30 day equalization trigger only it would be a bulk trigger instead. OR: would selling to grid avert this problem since the battery backup with grid tie type inverter is aware that the battery never left the Float stage? OR: would AC coupling also avert this problem even if sell to grid is not enabled, for the same reason cited above? OR: Your suggestions here, please. Thanks Jolliness, Mechanix. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Poletop rack with easy tilt change...anybody got that?
Hi, My client wants one of the larger top of pole racks but we all know that adjusting the tilt on those is not easy once they're loaded with glass. Does anyone make a poletop rack with a geared adjustment which could be cranked by hand? OR: how about a satellite dish actuator to which power is applied to change the tilt? OR: Does the esteemed Wrench List have other options or suggestions to consider? Thanks as always. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] PV Wire without the outer jacket--no worries?
Hello, Mechanix~ I've recently learned there are two flavors of 600v photovoltaic wire. I thought all PV wire must be normally insulated plus jacketed with an outer PVC layer but now I see some material marked as photovoltaic wire but it only has a single layer of XLPE slightly thicker than the insulation on good ol' USE-2. Can any of you address the practical difference between the double jacket and single jacket versions of PV wire? Specifically, would the single jacket version still be appropriate for ungrounded installations? Thanks all around. The Wrench List is the bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Pump end repair needed_helical rotor SQFlex
Hello, Wrenchies~ I supplied the Grundfos SQFlex 11 SQF-2 helical rotor pump to a client back in the good old days before dear Grundfos decided us solar guys weren't good enough to shepherd their pumps. Serious drought caused the well to dry up; the pump got pulled but did not get a rinse-through with clean water. The mud inside the rotor dried out and cemented the rotor in place. I think the motor is fine but is repeatedly going into self-protect mode since things won't turn. My client needs a repair that I am not qualified to handle since...after all...I'm just a solar guy not good enough to receive customer support from the Mother Ship. ++ Authorized Grundfos pump guy #1 opened things up, declared that the machined rubber volute was chewed, and he offered to install parts from his shelf, but his parts were for model 6, not 11 so the gallons per minute would go way down. Authorized Grundfos pump guy #2--the wholesaler in El Paso from whom I originally bought the pump--says these are never repaired, just replaced and of course for close to $3000. + Non-authorized pump guy me finds the universe to be absurd at times but not this absurd...surely not this absurd... So there's my dilemma of the week, Friends. Kindly point the way to any shop that could repair this problem child. Thanks Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Security cameras for off grid home: Who has a low wattage solution?
Hello, all~ My client likes to watch what's going on at his remote cabin while he's away. The problem is the energy impact on his battery system resulting from the presently deployed system. + They're running a Windows XP desktop computer, circa 2010. That has software loaded which collects the video from about five cameras then the computer sequences that data out beyond the firewall, through the satellite modem, uplinked to Hughesnet then eventually can be viewed by my client far away. It's amazing this can work at all but just the computer box is ~100 watts running, 24/7. The cameras are relatively low in their wattage demand, and of course there's the satellite modem plus a router for the LAN local area network which are also relatively low wattage. If we were attempting energy triage, the satellite modem and LAN wifi router are most justifiable in terms of their energy impact relative to the benefit my client receives while at the cabin. The cameras are next most justifiable but of course those are useless without some way to serve the data, but the power demand for that computer is making me cranky...and we don't want cranky. + I think beginning with the Windoze operating system is one of the errors here but of course the video software is built for that OS. Surely someone sells a video streamer that's built from the ground up for this purpose and maybe running Java or some other code that's more appropriate to this solitary task. ...and surely that only needs a small percentage of the power demanded by a full blown Windows box. OK, I've done my part in describing the challenge. Now it's up to the crew to name that product! Just kidding; I will do some more legwork but it's often the case that the Wrenchies have already invented the wheel. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Thanks Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Brush sparking damaged motors running sun-direct
Hello, Motorheads~ and with a cc to SolarConverters since I'm casting in all directions for answers. Another solar guy left our town abandoned a pond aeration system. The owners asked me to be their new guy, but we're struggling with motor problems way too soon. +++ Original setup: Twelve 36 cell (~60 watt) Solarex modules wired all parallel, driving a SolarConverters PPT12/24-30 power pump tracker. The original array wiring work had to be redone. The S-C controller was configured to MPPT the ~17 volt array input and the control was factory defaulted to clamp the motor output at no more than 15vDC, as appropriate for the original 12 volt air motors. The Gast DC air motors are the type that pump up the airbrakes in big trucks. Each compressor head is direct coupled to a permanent magnet motor with the familiar look of old school Pacific Scientific aka Honeywell motors. The original 12v motor-compressors were well worn so we rewired the array ~34v MPPT, jumpered the SolarConverters controller to match, and bought the 24 volt version of the same type air motors. Another jumper in the S-C controller sets it to clamp the output at no more than 30v DC. Gast says no problem if their 24 volt air motor is fed 30 volts since they assume the truck alternator can push the voltage that high. We're loading those motors way lower than what they're rated for since we're only pushing air to the bottom of a nearby pond. The existing 30 amp controller seems super sized compared to what the motors need and the PV array is also way bigger than what the motors really need. My clamp meter is broke right now--which makes me feel like an amputee--so I can't get fresh numbers today but each motor only drew a few amps @ 30 volts when last I checked. Two motors are connected in parallel to the output of the single SolarConverters motor controller so *maybe that's a key to our problem:*the motors do not start reliably and this misbehavior is very unpredictable. When the 24v motors were new--around 2011--these problems did not present until after several months had passed. Tapping on a motor shell (as one may do with a balky car starter) sometimes gets it to spin up, so I think they're not commutating properly. We took one motor apart and the commutator bars looked badly chewed up. The brushes looked OK where they rub on the comm and the brushes still have some length left. Some cleanup effort on the comm bars improved things with that motor. ++ With both motors wired parallel--but obviously they won't commutate in synch with one another--I wonder if back emf from one motor (maybe when the brush crosses the commutator gap) might be spiking the other motor with a voltage surcharge that causes arcing at the brush/commutator interface? My DC voltmeter shows 30 volts steady at the motor screws but it's not a fancy meter and it may not be able to capture a higher voltage flicker. My client and I are frustrated, hoping for a logical explanation, and also looking for plan C to implement. The fish endure stress leading to death whenever the aeration fails, so I hope to get past these nervous times soon. * Could we add capacitance across each set of motor screws...or a zener diode? If so, how would I determine values to try? * Should we special order the SolarConverter with a flat 24 volt voltage clamp set by the factory instead of their standard 30 volt clamp? * Should we split things up with a dedicated controller for each motor? In that event, must we dedicate part of the PV array to each SolarConverter or can two controllers share the same overall solar array power supply? (All the glass is in the same plane, and partial shade only occurs during sunrise and sunset times.) Thanks as always for being the Motorheads Nonpareil. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GSCM-mini with Honda EM5000SX (SunHarvest)
Eric~ On the same control box that I re-examined just today: Terminals 9 10 on the GCSM-mini need to see the generator's AC output in order for the black box to know it's time to stop cranking the starter. The wiring diagram that you sent shows those terminals but doesn't show anything connected to them. I tapped off the generator's hot neutral with skinny wires to provide this run signal to the GCSM-mini. I inserted a tiny glass fuse/holder in the AC hot connection...just because... Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Mini Grid Controlled Generator (Was: Generator Controlled Mini Grid)
This is an interesting thread, Wrenches~ May I suggest looking through the opposite end of the telescope? I hasten to add that I have not had suitable clients to try this suggestion, but: Instead of using a synchronous wound generator (to which grid tie inverters might sync), consider using battery based inverters to establish the AC parameters, then match in an engine generator which is intended for grid tie. Grid-tie engine generators tend to be found in the combined heat and power world which includes jolly features such as heat reclamation and long life engines. The Marathon Ecopower is worth a look and also the Freewatt system from ECR...and maybe there are others these days as I haven't checked up on this for years now. Scaling these cogeneration machines down to modest residential size wattages has been a major hangup, it seems. One would need a good way to protect the battery from overcharge, as this is AC Coupling with various Murphy possibilities. The only other obstacle would be political. One would need to convince the grid tie generator guys to allow use of their machine in a synthetic grid installation. They may be busy enough without having to think about AC coupling into a battery based inverter system. Intrepid researchers are encouraged to report back so we can all learn. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Fix the Fluorescents: What about LED tubes for late 2012?
Hi, Knuckle-Busters~ It's lighting retrofit time and also time for me to review what I thought I knew about various lighting technologies. + Round one of the conversion involves well known RV brand T8 tubular fluorescent fixtures (3' long single tube). These have 24vDC ballasts which (in various brands) have failed way too often...and the tubes also are failing too soon. I've mostly decided to convert the circuits to good ol' American AC instead of DC, then I gotta select ballasts (to stay fluor) or convert to LED. Some of the List members handle lighting retrofits for better energy efficiency, etc. so I need a refresher course. +++ For AC ballasts, I'm focusing on the Programmed Start type which seem less destructive to the tubes when cycled on and off frequently. I could drive three tubes with one ballast but then a single bulb failure sends the whole group to black since the tubes connect in series. Is there a way to test a fluorescent tube using a volt-ohmmeter or other non-exotic method? The cost benefit of sharing a ballast among three fixtures goes smaller if it's a hassle at lamp replacement time. A failed ballast would be tricky to spot with three lamps adding more variables. + I see there are now T8 tubular LED lamps which of course deliver more lumens per watt and of course they are still costly. With no ballast to buy, if I compared devoting a $25 ballast to each fixture against converting to a $50 LED tube, it's only double the cost to go LED. Is LED now ready for prime time? I got on that band wagon too early because the white light units were moonlight blue, they seemed dimmer than a flashlight, color rendition was poor, and worst of all: My early LED purchases stopped working properly as should not be the case if LED is done right. Admittedly, my early LED buys were--don't get me started--designed for DC and I think the battery voltage fluctuation may play havoc with LED and also with the DC fluorescent ballasts. Final question: how could I be sure that new LED lights won't roach out in a few years? My untrained eye has never helped me avoid crummy tech before, so I guess it comes down to identifying one (or more) major manufacturer, maybe with a long warranty and a good likelihood of staying in business. My friends and I must stop buying junk that's going to break--even if it is all hyped up about being the New Latest Environmentally Correct Energy Saver. Those well known RV brand fluorescents are a case in point to say nothing of round two: DC driven CFL's! Thanks Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Walking back my error re: charge regulation methods
Hi, Wrenchies~ I've been remiss in failing to send props to Larry Crutcher regarding his clarification on how battery charge regulation really works. See his post copied below. I see my error in that current is not directly reduced by the charge device, but the controller pulses get shorter and shorter to keep from exceeding the absorption voltage as the battery's internal resistance rises. The internal resistance presents a sort of back pressure so the amperage does diminish, but the reduced amperage is more of an effect than a cause. I'll try to reprogram my remarks along those lines in future. I'm sorry for any mis-explaining from my side. Thanks, Larry, again I say: The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -- Forwarded message -- From: Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems larry@ starlightsolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:56:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid non-inverter battery charger recommendations? Hi MIck, I often see your explanation for absorption charge phase. Consider this: While charging, current is applied without voltage regulation (CC). At the charge set point, PWM control (CV) takes place to regulate voltage. There is no control over current as the battery internal resistance dictates this. For example, if you have a pure DC source at a constant voltage attached to a battery, once the battery reaches that voltage, charge current will naturally start to decrease. I find it interesting that many people, including some manufacturers, believe a PV charge controller or AC battery charger is adjusting or tapering the current supplied to a battery when it is the other way around. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems (928) 342-9103 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] weak voltage
Hello, Wrenchies~ Mac Lewis wrote about battery strangeness on the Sunny Island system for his clients. Here is a theory to consider, Mac. I once bought a 48v string of famous brand two volt cells in which one cell had been loaded backwards into its case. When hooked up according to the +/- markings on the case, this cell was discharging at the same time the rest of the string was charging so even though the others were running high during the charge, the end to end voltage immediately slumped to relatively low values after the charge was ended. The one cell was effectively missing in action. My client was a DIY type who was distant from my location but he owned a voltmeter that was still in the box. I coached him through a voltage walk up the string and sure enough we found the one increment that was subtracting from overall string voltage instead of adding to it. The famous battery supplier said this was impossible, they are checked three times, this never happens can't happen, blah blah...and they were only convinced when the cell was back in their shop and they could measure this for themselves. Even after they checked it, they said, It's the first time in our 20 + years with that brand that we have ever seen this. Black swan. At my request, the company paid to ship back the entire string and ship all new replacement cells to the client. This seemed important because the other 23 cells had been subjected to a high voltage per cell and had gotten a bit hot before the problem was discovered. Perhaps this theory is worth checking on site. Whatever you find to resolve this problem, Mac, be sure to report back on list so we can all learn. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Off-grid non-inverter battery charger recommendations?
Hi, Mechanix~ Bill Dorsett polled the group about recommended battery chargers for connection to a generator. Iota brand is the successor to Todd brand; I believe Iota bought the designs, tooling, etc. and these have appeal because of the relatively low cost per rated amp. They seem generator tolerant. The Todd design is a constant voltage type charger, however--basically an AC to DC converter with a fixed voltage output. In my experience, the 75 amp Todd type charger will deliver 75 amps only for a relatively short time when first connected to a low battery. As the battery's voltage comes up that presents a sort of back pressure which slows the rate of charge. That's not so bad if one has utility power always on to drive the charger, but if an engine generator is running... The inverter/chargers (with which we are all familiar) begin with a constant current part of the charge cycle--aka bulk charge. The charger is determined to sock the battery with the amperage we have requested in the setup; I think a pulse width modulation is going on where the charger hums up its voltage in order to keep the amps high even as the back pressure builds. When it's time for the absorption phase of the charge, the logic shifts to a constant voltage where the amps are gradually dialed lower in order to keep the battery at the target voltage so it can absorb. Ignoring the float phase which would come later, this overall charge regimen would be called CC/CV for constant current/constant voltage. The CV part of that is not much different from what a Todd style charger does; it's just that the Todd design does not precede that phase with a CC constant current phase. Some free-standing battery chargers have a CC/CV algorithm but those seem to cost as much or more than a comparably rated inverter/charger. Check the Magnum mod-square multi's, Bill, such as their RD series. As others on this List have noted, just the charge function is pretty good and since the inverter circuit is not pure sine, that keeps the cost lower. Built in time delay before it loads up the generator is an added benefit. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTWB outage monitor question
Happy Friday, all~ Allan Todd were discussing the issue where a reset type amp hour battery monitor (such as TriMetric) never gets to reset to full when operating on a GTWBB grid tie with battery backup system...because the battery stays in float and the monitor never sees a bulk charge voltage. The problem here seems to reside more with the chicken than with the egg. A battery in float for long intervals will actually still undergo some self discharge, so it needs an occasional rebulk charge to restore full state of charge. *Inverter manufacturers please take note that a simple addition to your code base could cause a GTWBB inverter to rev up the battery charge voltage back through the bulk/absorption phase on a calendar basis such as once per month. *Victron Energy already does this with their inverter/chargers but Victron is not certified for US terrestrial and it's not set up for grid tie. If the inverter system would do an occasional rebulk, that would also cause the battery capacity monitor to reset. Until that function becomes automatic within the inverter(s), the next best suggestion is for the client to manually simulate a power company blackout once per month by cycling the input AC breaker off, then on. This kicks up a bulk cycle, ensures good SOC on the battery, stirs up the electrolyte if the batteries are floodies, and resets the battery capacity monitor all with a single intervention. The same manual intervention might also serve as a good time for the owner to check water levels on a flooded pack, near the end of the charge cycle. The Wrench List is the bomb! Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Shunt question
Greetings, all~ Regarding Allan's shunt question: Definitely you will need the same ratio for the meter logic to work right. I have purchased from AEE Solar a 1000 amp shunt that drops 100 mv @ 1000 amps. This is the same ratio as a shunt that drops 50mv @ 500 amps. The photo makes this appear to be just a block of metal with no insulating base but I confirmed and found that it did arrive on a plastic base. I had to do some major mods to fit this into the Schneider XW power distribution panel because the overall height and other dimensions are different, but it worked out. I do not recall the part number for this but the AEEsolar website has a pretty good search function. Allan, you may contact me off list as always if I may assist further. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 1. Shunt question (Allan Sindelar) -- Forwarded message -- From: Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:37:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shunt question Wrenches, What are you using when you need a shunt larger than the standard 500A/50mV? The application: four Sunny Islands and a Radian in a large grid-tie with backup system. Total current flow through B- is rated 850A (using 125A SI DC breakers) or 1,050A (using 175A DC breakers) on a single large battery bank. Given uncertain continuous amperage, I should use a 1,000A shunt or even a 1,200A shunt, as Deltec recommends never exceeding 67% of a shunt's current rating for long. Deltec makes both; see http://www.deltecco.com/MKC-DC.html. The shunt will be installed inside of a Nottagutter-8, with a Midnite shunt bus on each side. The shunt will be used with the Sunny Island master to control overall SOC and charging parameters; there's no plan for a Tri-Metric in this system, as a Sunny Webbox will handle online monitoring per the customer's wishes. The 1,000 and 1,200A series MKC Deltec shunts are the same physical dimensions as the common 500A/50mV units. However, the larger units are still 50mV. Ralph Heisey of Bogart Engineering, in his Information on Shunts reference article (http://www.deltecco.com/MKC-DC.html), tells us to match the ratio of voltage drop to current - that is, just as a 500A shunt drops 50mV, a larger shunt with 1,000A flowing through it should drop 100mV. But all of the larger Deltec shunts are still rated 50mV. Who has done this and resolved the issue? What shunt did you use? Thank you, Allan -- *Allan Sindelar* *al...@positiveenergysolar.com* al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* *www.positiveenergysolar.com* http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ * * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] High L16 voltage situation
Hi, Nathan~ Your pesky overcharge situation sounds like a real pain given the long commute. 15.6 volts on a 12 volt battery implies zero restriction of the incoming energy, so this looks like a controller problem...or maybe it's a wiring problem that prevents proper controller operation. Make sure there's a -12 in the model number for your Morningstar Sunsaver controls, as those are voltage specific. Eliminate as many variables as possible, Nathan: unhook two of the 6v L-16's, leaving only two in a 12 volt string. Connect only one PV module through the 12v controller and see if the voltage will regulate properly. If you have a clamp style DC ammeter, clip around one lead in the charge circuit read the amps with good sun. If the battery voltage continues high while you see ~ 7-8 amps PV charge...the controller is failing to do its job. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Energy Remote Control
Todd All~ Either version of the Magnum Remote will also work with their optional module for amp-hour fuel gauge--called the BMK battery monitoring kit and yes, it's very similar to Tri-Metric functions. Either version of the Remote will also work with the module for AGS automatic generator start. However, the Advanced unit incorporates a time of day clock feature that's absent from the normal RC-50. If one wants to lock out generator run time during quiet hours, that can only be done with the Advanced Remote. There are other features such as LBX a-la SW4024 and the unit can also use grid power during certain hours/black other hours when the AC input is grid...but the generator timing feature seems most important to my clients. The great benefit of the standard Remote is ease of use. One hardly even needs to consult the instruction book as I'm sure you are aware. That simplicity is just not there with the more feature laden Advanced Remote. If stacking multiple inverters of the PAE type, the Router product is an even more elaborate form of Remote that can also manage the networked inverters. Complexity of operation takes another notch upward with that unit, however. I've never figured out how to hack the generator trigger decisions which are set from the factory. Possibly those are hard-coded and not accessible for tweaking purposes. The decision making process that causes the BMK/Remote to declare the battery as fully charged is also a bit inscrutable. They know more than we do, I suppose, or maybe more menus aren't always better. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Big idea suggestion for inverter/charger manufacturers
Greetings, all~ The following big idea hit me while in the hinterlands fussing with a generator driven inverter/charger setup. If any manufacturers of these Multi type inverters are listening, here's a feature that the off grid mechanics really need: ++ Automatic tuning of the generator AC amperage ceiling. The system monitors the AC frequency present on the inverter's genset in terminals. If the frequency drops to 54 hertz, the inverter/charger automatically imposes a lower ceiling for the amperage drawn from the genset, thereby lightening the load and allowing the engine to again sustain its design RPM. This autotune feature loads the generator to the maximum comfort level for that machine at that time. If the generator is out of tune, the amp ceiling will be reduced. If the generator has been freshly tuned, the amp ceiling is allowed to rise as high as the maximum level preset by the installer. ++ Please somebody work on this, or chime in if I'm missing some obvious reason why it can't work. It seems that a function of this sort would not require much computing power beyond that which is already built into the modern Multi. Here's to better off grid living through science. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV into a resistor: please advise
Hi, Technicians~ Thanks to all for the replies regarding PV behavior when the load is a resistor. My client wants to emulate the Divert function as with an old school Bobier NDR-30 charge controller ( also seen with Mr. Katz' Enermaxer controller from days gone by). The 2012 twist is that we've got higher solar wattage, higher array voltage and a wish to use normal 240v heat elements...and no NDR-30 style charge controller with a simple Divert connection bolt. Even once the control switching is figured out, the other problem is how to get a good percentage of available wattage to convert into heat. My takeaway from your astute comments is that MPPT type optimization would still be needed to maximize the power transmission...but the right MPPT optimizer would differ from anything now in production. Since the impedance (resistance) of any heat element would be wrong most of the time, the solar array would be hindered from what it could otherwise deliver. That's the crux of the problem, methinks. My client and I will proceed using no intervening electronics between the array and the heater, under the some heat is better than no heat concept. Since this project has no ability to sell excess solar wattage to the grid...but with grid power up and running the home most of the time...we want to reclaim some of the solar array capability as heat. Thanks again for shifting focus to consider the PV into a resistor issues. We can now return to our regularly scheduled programming. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] PV into a resistor: please advise
Hi, Wrenchies~ Kindly educate me regarding PV behavior when the load is a resistor. Here's a hypothetical situation: * Eight 250 watt PV modules (60 cells per module), all connected in series for peak ratings of 240 volts DC 8.3 amps * Lab type cell temperature illumination so that the eight would truly pump 2,000 watts *into an ideal load* * A 240 volt AC heating element designed for 2,000 watt heat dissipation at 240 volts AC...that's about 29 ohms resistance for the heat element * Connect the PV string to the heat element, with nothing in between except a fused disconnect. In the above situation, would the resistance of the heating element be all that's needed to force the PV array to operate near the peak wattage? Would the heater actually get 2,000 watts to turn into heat? +++ Now consider the same cell temperature but half the illumination. That's similar voltage but half the amps at peak wattage. If this is sent into the same 29 ohm resistor--again with no intervening electronics, could we count on 1000 watts of heat? If the answers come up no, would the power throughput be helped by a SolarConverters style MPPT pump controller (Linear Current Booster kinda thing), assuming that one could be found to operate in the 240 volt range? Thanks Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Remote switch needed for old school Trace DR inverter
Greetings, Mechanix~ My client du monde would like to acquire the remote on/off switch that plugs into the face of a DR series inverter. Since this part is way-discontinued, I'm hoping to find one in someone's rusty dusty. Contact me off list if you can supply this item new or used. If that fails, does anybody know how to hack this? I think there are four wires in the phone socket and only two of those are needed for a momentary switch to mimic the on/off button on the inverter face. The problem is not knowing which two wires from a phone cable to connect to a generic momentary switch. Thanks Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Morningstar relay driver configuration help
Sorry, bad terminology on my part. I was wishing for software that could do more than set the relay driver to respond to programmed parameters. If a training application could instruct the human on a wide range of end results, relay driver action that would be appropriate for each one, and the action of external components which would help meet those results, etc...that's more of what I was wishing for. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 1:53 AM, Hugh h...@scoraigwind.co.uk wrote: At 10:30 -0600 13/4/11, Mick Abraham wrote: I wish that M-star had some wizard type Windows software that could lead one through the setup. The wizard is the only way I know of for setting it up. I use 'MS view' and choose the relay driver wizard. I see they have a new edition out last month so I will download and try that. http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/support/item.cfm?ItemId=400 Seems pretty self-explanatory to me but the manual is there for reference too. I did not know that there was any other way to set them up. -- Hugh Piggott Scoraig http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] solar thermal/electric
Try this: www.schuco-us.com The phone number at the Union City, CA branch is: 510 477 0500 Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Brian Teitelbaum bteitelb...@aeesolar.comwrote: I don’t see it there either. You may have to call them Vaporware?? Brian T *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *jay peltz *Sent:* Thursday, April 14, 2011 4:40 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] solar thermal/electric Hi Brian, thanks, I couldn't find anything at this link? j On Apr 14, 2011, at 8:39 AM, Brian Mehalic wrote: Hey Jay, Think it might be the Schuco MPE/MP 02 model: http://www.schueco.com/web/us/commercial/solarstrom_und_waerme/products/photovoltaic_systems/pv_modules/Schueco_MPE_modules_in_the_MP02_series Brian On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 11:35 AM, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote: HI All, I saw a company, german if memory serves, that makes solar electric modules and solar thermal panels that are the same size and shape. I have a client that really wants them to integrate. Anybody know which company this is or maybe there are many? thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Brian Mehalic NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ R031508-59 PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor Solar Energy International Carbondale, CO 81623 http://www.solarenergy.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Morningstar relay driver configuration help
Hi, Nathan~ The Morningstar Relay Driver doesn't care regarding the channel number to which a certain trigger has been assigned. The unit will act when your parameters are met regardless of the channel number hierarchy. I wish that M-star had some wizard type Windows software that could lead one through the setup. The capabilities of that hardware are huge if only one can navigate the configuration issues. Adam Kehlenbeck at Morningstar provided me with good technical support in 2010. If you contact him be sure to ask if he or another M-star technician would be willing to join the Wrench List in order to educate us all. The manus would all save time trouble if they would address technical issues in an broadcast fashion; the Wrench List is the perfect medium for that. Adam's contact info is as follows: Voice: 1-410-312-9161, option 4 email: akehlenb...@morningstarcorp.comhttp://www.google.com/contacts/a/c/abrahamsolar.com/ui/ContactManager?titleBar=truehl=endc=true# Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Nathan Jones solardud...@yahoo.com wrote: Wrenches, I am trying to configure a Morningstar relay driver and am not sure I have the setpoints in the right sequence. I have the settings loaded into a file on the laptop with progressively higher battery voltages triggering more diversion loads but I'm not sure I have the correct order for this to occur. I started with channel 2 as the first trigger point and then used channel one as a second, or higher battery voltage diversion. Does it matter which channel is used progressively or will it default to whatever setting regardless of which channel? I would like to know I have this thing right so I don't have to field configure. Any input is appreciated as I have never used one of these units. Thanks, Nathan Jones Power Source Solar 417 827 0738 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] galvanized barn roofing
Daryl~ Take a look at the EJOT line of fasteners: http://www.ejot.com/ejot.de/EJOT_Solarbefestiger_Bau_2009--2749,websiteLang__en.htm These sort of look like a hanger bolt but they are machined to cram down on a fat rubbery washer as they are tightened. EJOT is showing up in some of the PV wholesaler inventories, and there are fastener companies with inventory in the US. Contact me off list if you have trouble finding a supplier via normal channels, and I'll think of a source or two to which I can point you. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 5:53 PM, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote: Hi Daryl, I have drilled a small pilot hole, put plenty of sealant around it, then lag through it with what ever foot you are using. I don't think the cost of flashing around each foot with a rubber boot and 15 screws is any better but its sure more costly in time and money. jay peltz power On Apr 7, 2011, at 2:28 PM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Does anyone have experience mounting arrays on barns with 24 wide galvanized roofing (not standing seam)? It is flat, not corrugated, but has an overlapping edge on either side. It's pretty much a standard on barn roofs around here, but I hesitate to penetrate any metal roof. How have others dealt with this type of material? Thanks for any information, Daryl Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design mbers.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Possible genset configuration error...but how do I convince my client!
Hello, Mechanics~ I went to a distant off grid jobsite where my client has an inverter/charger system set up for 120/240 60 hz system architecture. While investigating some screwy charge behavior I clipped my pretty good Extech clamp meter around the various AC wires from the generator, with the meter set for frequency display. The two hots looked good around 60 hz but the neutral was showing wacky frequency numbers much higher...and about double. The ground also showed similar wacky frequency numbers so I think there is a ground fault but my greater worry at present is the approximately double frequency which is showing up on the neutral. I suspect that the two hots are not perfectly 180 degrees out of phase to each other, but how do I convince my client of that and how do we fix it? The generator is...old...massive...noisy intimidating of course...and the type with taps that can be set to choose the type of power delivery that one wants. I fear that it may not have taps for good ol' single phase with two opposing hots, however. My client thinks it's set up for something called double delta and showed me a diagram that implies this to yield two hots and a neutral ordinary single phase. The voltage looks normal from each line to neutral and from line to line. It's just that puzzling frequency on the neutral that has me concerned. Charge performance actually cleaned up very well by the time I left the site but I fear that something is still amiss. Gosh! I didn't measure the amps on all lines but if the hots are not canceling each other out maybe the neutral is being required to carry more than just the imbalance current. Maybe I gotta go back and maybe some pointers or suggestions from the group would help me do a better job. Is there anything short of an oscilloscope that can help us figure this out? Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo problems
I don't know my HIPs from my HITs...wait that didn't sound right...but you see my problem. Heterojunction with Intrinsic Thin Layer = HIT. What = HIP? Thanks for taking a moment to address this question. Marco others: if anyone can find a Sanyo Tech Person who would join the Wrench List, it would help us all and probably also help Sanyo. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:51 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.comwrote: Esteemed colleagues, Regarding the Sanyo problems, I was mistaken. They’re having problems with their HIP models. I’m seeking clarification from the author of the article who I know to see whether there have been any HIT problems as well. My apologies. marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Benn~ If the company that built those batteries is a major brand name, I advise that you add neither water nor acid to the new cells. Check with the mfr, but most of the serious mfrs are using robotic fill equipment that is very precise. If some of the cells are older stock they may have self discharged a bit and the electrolyte level rises falls like the tide based on state of charge. I'll bet if you can EQ the batts to reach equal state of charge, you also will find the electrolyte level to equalize. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.comwrote: Hi Benn: Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 -- *From:* benn kilburn b...@daystarsolar.ca *To:* Wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AM *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries I'm curious of others experiences with testing new batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4 and 1-1/2 below full, which is 1/4 below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Hi, Benn~ When the batteries are chemically discharged, the plates absorb some of the volume of the electrolyte...and that lowers the tide. Upon recharge the chemicals that had been absorbed into the plates are driven back into solution...and that raises the tide. This is why one should never top up the levels on a battery which is electrically discharged. The problem with that is if/when the battery receives a good charge, the electrolyte level will rise, maybe enough to overflow through the cell caps. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 12:12 PM, benn kilburn b...@daystarsolar.ca wrote: Mick n' Nick, Thanks guys. I shoulda mentioned that the date code says they were mfgrd the 7th week of 2011 and the one exception, the 8th week. So they haven't been sitting too long. I have been in contact with the mfgr, and of course i will take their advice over anyone else's (gotta keep the warranty valid), but you cannot deny the value of the hands-on experience and insight from this list. They said to add distilled water after the initial charge, which is why i was only considering adding acid. I have asked about adding acid rather than water. Waiting for reply. Mick, you mentioned that the electrolyte levels may level once all batteries are at equal SOC. Can you elaborate? Do the plates become more or less 'absorbent' or does the chemical reaction change the volume of the liquid. I will watch this closely. cheers, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY -- From: m...@abrahamsolar.com Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:27:36 -0600 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Benn~ If the company that built those batteries is a major brand name, I advise that you add neither water nor acid to the new cells. Check with the mfr, but most of the serious mfrs are using robotic fill equipment that is very precise. If some of the cells are older stock they may have self discharged a bit and the electrolyte level rises falls like the tide based on state of charge. I'll bet if you can EQ the batts to reach equal state of charge, you also will find the electrolyte level to equalize. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.comwrote: Hi Benn: Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 -- *From:* benn kilburn b...@daystarsolar.ca *To:* Wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AM *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries I'm curious of others experiences with testing new batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4 and 1-1/2 below full, which is 1/4 below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tall pole mount
Hello, Holt~ Consider calling a company that specializes in outdoor sign installation. They could install the mast as a subcontractor. They also have wind loading tables for vertical surfaces instead of sloped tracker surfaces but that could get you a good start on the engineering. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:51 AM, d...@foxfire-energy.com wrote: Can you get creative? How about a Simple Timber Frame Jungle Gym /Tree House/Ground Mount.. a Screened in Summer Bug House /Studio??? How about a very large Hop Trellis? Personally I avoid Pressure treated.. I love working with native Cedar and Tamarack... Might want to get a good nail banger involved.. 30' is up there.. I do have a few pics if you're interested... good Luck. db Dan Brown Foxfire Energy Corp. Renewable Energy Systems (802)-483-2564 www.Foxfire-Energy.com NABCEP #092907-44 Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] Tall pole mount From: hol...@sbcglobal.net Date: Tue, March 22, 2011 9:13 am To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Situation: Client has limited locations for array due to trees. There is one spot that would work IF pole mount is 20-25' (that would put the array top edge at 30'+). Will need to incorporate tracker to maximize production. Will definitely be consulting structural engineer. Questions: Anyone tried this? Comments or lessons learned? Holt E. Kelly Holtek Fireplace Solar Products 500 Jewell Dr. Waco TX. 76712 254-751-9111 www.holteksolar.com -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP)
Polyphaser builds high speed surge arrestors--some of which are EMP rated--and some of which are military spec. They probably have a bit of that definitive information that Drake mentions, but maybe this is back in some dusty lab instead of front center on the website. Interesting thread, all. Be sure to report back to the List as you learn more...so we can all learn more... Jolliness~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Drake drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: Hi Ray, Allan and All, That is a very informative article. Our utility, American Electric Power (AEP) is taking steps to deal with the problem before it hits. This will include the ability to remotely disconnect areas of the grid and reconnect them from other sources. As I understand the issue, the EMP is caused by magnetic fields streaming through our environment. As a generator creates power when a wire cuts through a magnetic field, the moving field will create currents and voltages in conductors. Long electrical power lines will be strongly affected. Also affected are the conductors in micro chips and other electronic devices. The tiny conductors in computers can be burned by small electrical impulses, as evidenced by the fact that care must be taken when working inside a computer to ground your hand on the frame. A potential, generated by walking on a nylon carpet and arcing from your finger, can destroy your computer's processor. In a similar fashion, the conductors in a great number of electronic devices are susceptible to damage by potentials resulting from rapidly moving magnetic fields. As micro chips are in so many products these days, many things will not operate after a major EMP event, including the electronic ignitions in automobiles. In military context, an EMP may be generated in order to shut down a society by producing a high altitude nuclear blast. It is an effect that has been studied at length. We have not had any major, naturally occurring EMP activity since the micro electronic age began. My concern for the list is what the effect on PV systems will be. Having a spare inverter may not help, because it could be damaged even though it is not connected. But what about PV modules? They have very small conductors within them. Could a significant EMP produce enough potential to damage modules? If this were to become an issue, who would be liable for the damage? Lightning potential can be shunted to ground by proper grounding procedures. I'm not sure the same would be true for potential generated inside the busses of a module by a pulsed magnetic field. It would be good to get some definitive information about these issues. Drake At 02:34 AM 3/20/2011, you wrote: Hi Allan; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7819201/Nasa-warns-solar-flares-from-huge-space-storm-will-cause-devastation.html http://science.nasa.gov/heliophysics/big-questions/how-does-solar-variability-affect-human-society-technological-systems-and-the-habitability-of-planets/ http://science.howstuffworks.com/solar-flare-electronics.htm http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/showthread.php?t=10548 Should I shield all my electronics under my lead batteries, or is this our next Y2K non event? Ray On Mar 19, 2011, at 11:58 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: For those of us less aware of solar flare issues and what we might expect that relates to PV, could someone provide a good link to educate us? Thanks, Allan *Allan Sindelar* * al...@positiveenergysolar.com* NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* * www.positiveenergysolar.com* * * On 3/19/2011 11:48 AM, R Ray Walters wrote: Hi Drake; No, I don't have answers, just more of your same concerns. I had a high altitude (12,500 ft) installation damaged recently, possibly by a solar flare in Feb; we lost a C40 charge controller. At this point, I don't know if the flare was the cause or not, but I would expect more problems at higher altitudes. So far, my internet research says that the panels and batteries would be ok, but we might expect damage to electronics similar to the induced high voltages caused by lightning. Would grounding help? (I, too, also considered the Faraday cage) NASA is predicting the solar storm of a generation for 2012-2013, and I read of a similar EMP incident in the 1800s that set telegraph equipment on fire. I think very long utility lines and transformers at the ends of those lines are the most vulnerable, so this could be more of GridTie issue? R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Mar 19, 2011, at 8:53 AM, Drake wrote: Hello Wrenches, I had an inquiry concerning the effect of EMP on photovoltaic systems. We are heading
[RE-wrenches] Spot welding PV's to rails for theft prevention: bad idea?
Hello, we mounted some PV onesy modules as high as we could reach without a man-lift, but an enterprising thief could reach just as high. The side of pole mounts hold the bolt heads captive so I bought some aluminum breakaway nuts. However the nuts have a big diameter which would not fit inside the Kyocera PV frames. Has anyone tried spot welding the PV frames direct to the aluminum rails to which they are mounted? Would this over stress the glass laminate or cause other problems? I realize this would void the Kyo warranty but nothing voids system performance like a stolen PV module. Happy Friday, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] PV project in Atlanta area: seeking contractors
Hello, Wrenchies~ I've done some design work for a residential grid-tie with batteries PV project in the Atlanta region. This would involve Xantrex XW type inverter stacks, Midnite Classic controllers, AGM racked batteries, and roof mounted Sanyo PV modules. Total budget is between $150K $200K so it would require a season if I were to install this much hardware on my own...and I live a long way from the jobsite. I've been asked to write up specifications and solicit bids for the work. Contractors who wish to be considered for this project may contact me off list. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Meter base minimum conductor size
Try this, Carl~ Strip about 1.5 off the end of your skinny stranded wire then fold it in thirds before inserting it into the compression lug. It's still only one wire in case anyone should ask, but your inspector may balk. Try it and see as this would depend on the inspector's particular mindset. If you get failed, I would suggest copper split bolts to splice your skinny wires onto short bits of fatter wire. This solution is more clunky, more expensive, and a wire splice is always more risky than an uncut wire. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Carl Adams swingjun...@gmail.com wrote: Wrenches, We often use a conventional 100A meter base and analog meter as an independent metering system for inverter output. These meters typically have a minimum conductor size of #6 AWG. For smaller systems the inverter output conductors are smaller than #6 AWG. We have upsized the conductors to match the meter base requirement, but this adds expense. I am looking for other suggestions for resolving this. With Regards Carl Adams SunRock Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] outback mate question
Call Sandra Herrera or one of the other Outback techies, Jay. If I remember correctly, the Mate display shifts to Drop when the Mate detects the presence of Generator AC...or it's some other random and totally non-logical--but harmless--behavior. Maybe the newer versions don't do that. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 6:51 AM, Wayne Irwin wa...@pureenergysolar.comwrote: Jay, I have seen the same problem and like Kent, I also reset the Mate to factory defaults and reprogrammed all the AGS settings for the customer. Also no problems since. I would also recommend sending in the the mate for a free software up grade. Wayne Irwin Director of Engineering Pure Energy Solar International Inc. State Licensed Solar Contractor License # CVC56695 wa...@pureenergysolar.com pureenergyso...@hotmail.com http://pureenergysolar.com http://pureenergysolar.net/ 352 377-6527 Office 352 336-3299 Fax 352 316-1637 Cell The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you. Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:21:29 -0800 From: k...@coveoregon.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] outback mate question Jay, I've seen that happen. I concluded that it was associated with an AGS fault status. I also reset the Mate to factory defaults and reprogrammed all the AGS settings for the customer. No problem since then. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. jay peltz wrote: HI All, I'm curious if anyone can shed light on this one. I've got a customer whos telling me their mate changes from USE to drop on its own. they say they set it on USE, come back and check it and its on Drop? Ive never seen this one. any thoughts other than user error? system is 6 years old, probably original mate, no AGS, sealed fx thanks, jay peltz power PS the site is a 8hr drive each way, not my install, just trying to help out. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] questions about solar charging 72v UPS
Hi, Ron~ The Midnite Classic PV controller shows 72 volt nominal as one of the battery choices on its menu screen. That's about the only option I know of. Even though the HV controller from Apollo can accept a similar range of PV input voltage I think that unit stops at a 48v battery--maybe because of code problems with battery strings above 50 volts. For charging a 72 volt lead battery, consider a minimum of 36 X 6 = 216 PV cells in each charging string. Confirm that cell count suggestion with someone who knows more than I do about the Midnite controllers...such as boB Gudgel who is a frequent List contributor. I just unboxed my first Classic controller and I look forward to learning more about this item. With a 72 volt lead acid battery bank it will be difficult to maintain equal state of charge on the 36 chemical cells in each battery string. As you know, Ron, one can only add/remove energy through the whole battery string--barring new developments--so if some of those critters get out of line it will be tough to re-establish good discipline. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 8:07 PM, Ron Young solarea...@solareagle.com wrote: Hi All, I recently acquired some UPS units that are a high end portable units (GE GT3000). They are nearly new and I would like to rig them up as a standalone emergency back-up power source with a solar (or wind) charging option. These units have sine wave output and are a double conversion type, i.e. power out is isolated from power in by ac to dc to ac conversion. The main problem I have is that the battery pack is 72v. It is expandable and I can add up to four additional packs to increase the runtime to over three hours at half power (1200 watts). How do I charge this type of battery pack with solar? Is there a charge controller out there that will provide nominal 72v? http://www.gedigitalenergy.com/PowerQuality/catalog/gtseries.htm Best Regards, *Ron Young* earthRight Products - Solareagle.com Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products 1-877-925-2929 *blog*: http://www.earthrightsolar.tumblr.com *website*: http://www.solareagle.com *email*: sa...@solareagle.com 79F North Third Ave Williams Lake, BC V2G 2A3 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Parallel wire runs to increase size
Hi, Larry~ If you convert from American AWG wire gauge sizes to millimeters squared units...you can add the mm squared values together, then convert back to AWG. Here's one conversion chart among many which are available: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html When running wires in parallel as you describe, one cannot be assured that the amperage will divide proportionally to the various wire sizes...because the connection to one strand may be stronger/better than the connection to another one. The marine world has the ABYC; the RV world may have something similar...and those organizations may frown on the parallel wiring practice. I wouldn't lose much sleep over this, but I would consider sizing any overcurrent protection for the smallest conductor. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: Wrenches, Some of our business involves repairing poor PV solar installations on recreational vehicles. So often we wind up installing a roof junction box and running a second PV to controller wire and then replacing the controller to battery wire size. For instance, we may find a 10 gauge wire run to the controller. We then add #8, #6, #4 or even 2 gauge and parallel to the #10 depending on power and distance of the run. My question: Is there a calculator or chart that will tell me what the combination of any two wire sizes equate to? example: #10 + #4 = X Thanks. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems http://www.starlightsolar.com *powered by STARLIGHT*™ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Photosensor for 12VDC System with load controller
All one could do would be to test the car style relay. One brand may tolerate an overvoltage on the coil better than another. First connect the relay to your truck battery (engine running) and leave it energized a bit. Feel the case to get a baseline temperature. Then hook it up per our discussions and feel for heat. The PV voltage will be highest when the sun first comes up but before the C12 controller hooks on. That should be a brief duration. I fear that you will find too much heat dissipation for good long term reliability with this solution. If cost is the main problem with that Grainger relay you mentioned yesterday, try eBay. If physical size is too tight for a bigger relay to fit...but the coil runs too hot...you could try adding a resistor in series with the DC relay coil. The downside here is that the coil won't pull in until it sees a higher DC voltage. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Does anyone know if an automotive style 12V relay coil can handle the solar panel voltages common in a 12V nominal panel? This would be a low cost and small size solution that might work best in my case. A $6 relay can switch 40A – well over what I need to do. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Mick Abraham *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2011 9:43 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Photosensor for 12VDC System with load controller Maverick's suggestion would give the opposite action to what the original poster needs. The C12 night light function turns the load on after dark but Jason needs the opposite. The solar array can serve as your photocell, Jason. The PV +/- terminals in the C12 controller have no power on them at nighttime (check me on that with your voltmeter), but they are energized when there is sunshine. A relay coil connected parallel to the the PV +/- terminals on the C12 should fire when the sun is up and that coil would then release at sundown. Use a single pole single throw normally open relay with a DC coil, and connect the positive leg of your DC load across the normally open connection screws. Make sure the relay coil can accept a wide range of DC input, since it may encounter 20 volts across a 36 cell PV module when the sun first comes up. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:52 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com wrote: I have a customer with a Xantrex C12 charge controller with LVD controlling a 5A load. Their battery and PV are not large enough to run the load 24/7, and they don’t need it to run at night. I am thinking about recommending a photocell to disconnect the load at dusk and turn it back on at dawn. They are not interested in upgrading the PV and battery (too costly). Can anyone recommend a photosensor source, and maybe a model number? Other ideas welcomed… Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Photosensor for 12VDC System with load controller
Maverick's suggestion would give the opposite action to what the original poster needs. The C12 night light function turns the load on after dark but Jason needs the opposite. The solar array can serve as your photocell, Jason. The PV +/- terminals in the C12 controller have no power on them at nighttime (check me on that with your voltmeter), but they are energized when there is sunshine. A relay coil connected parallel to the the PV +/- terminals on the C12 should fire when the sun is up and that coil would then release at sundown. Use a single pole single throw normally open relay with a DC coil, and connect the positive leg of your DC load across the normally open connection screws. Make sure the relay coil can accept a wide range of DC input, since it may encounter 20 volts across a 36 cell PV module when the sun first comes up. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:52 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: I have a customer with a Xantrex C12 charge controller with LVD controlling a 5A load. Their battery and PV are not large enough to run the load 24/7, and they don’t need it to run at night. I am thinking about recommending a photocell to disconnect the load at dusk and turn it back on at dawn. They are not interested in upgrading the PV and battery (too costly). Can anyone recommend a photosensor source, and maybe a model number? Other ideas welcomed… Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Load testing batteries?
Hello, Jesse~ Instead of trying for laboratory precision, here's a way to measure the battery capacity using equipment that you may already own: * Gather up appropriate safety stuff: gloves, goggles, baking soda, distilled water, off duty fireman, blast protection, etc. * Connect only two of the 6 volt batteries in series to make a 12 volt battery string. Put those on charge once you're sure they're warmed up thawed out. Maintain about 75 degrees Fahrenheit air temperature in the testing area. Recharge quality is important if you want to give the batteries a fair opportunity to show what they can do. * Install a DC breaker between battery positive and the positive DC terminal on a 12 volt inverter. The inverter should be 500 watts or bigger with AC plug in receptacles; you can connect inverter negative to battery negative power it up on the DC side. * Plug into the inverter with an AC kilowatt-hour meter (such as Kill-a-Watt, the Brand meter, WattsUp?, etc.) then plug into the kWh meter with an adjustable blow dryer. * Switch on the hair dryer at a low setting then dial up on the heat until your AC meter shows about 360 watts of power draw. The battery pair, if new, should be able to sustain a drain like this for about ten hours--this is based on the 298 amp-hour rate for that battery on the Rolls spec sheet. * Run the blow dryer until the inverter shuts off due to low voltage, then read the number of AC watt-hours that were clocked by the kWh meter. 298 amp hours X 12 volt nominal = 3,576 watt-hours. Battery professionals would replace a battery if it fails to deliver 50% of the original rated power. * Repeat this same test with the other battery pairs. As mentioned, this approach is not scientifically perfect, but it might be done with minimal outlays for new equipment...and the results will be close enough. Jolliness~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Jesse Dahl dahlso...@gmail.com wrote: Wrenches, I have some (4) rolls 6 volt batteries 4000 series S-460. They are from a stand alone system in Ely, MN I have mentioned in a previous question. I had mentioned in the previous post that they were suspected to have been frozen (bulged cases). The owner took them out of the system, dumped the electrolyte out and added new electrolyte. I have no idea what she added or any specifics. I did a SG test today, all of the cells seemed to have 50% SOC, but I don't think that means anything. Most of the info I got from the last post and from my knowledge tells me the batteries are shot. They are 10 years old at least. What I'm asking, I guess, is what type of load tester would a person need to load test a battery like this. I have a cheap one, up 160Ah I believe, but I'm not sure if it will work this test. I have limited battery experience and would appreciate any help with testing methods. Thanks everyone, Jesse Sent from my iPad!!! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Load testing batteries?
My Brand brand kWh meter has non-volatile capture of the kWh data even when power is removed. I assumed that was true of the other kWh meters, also, but one would certainly want to check on that point. Dan's other points are helpful. If the clock is left out of the setup , one could still get a useful capacity number for the batteries. Batteries are rated in amp-hours...not watt-hours, of course, so there is some conversion math to be done. Similar testing could be done with an amp-hour meter on the DC side between battery and load...and that would be more precise for a couple of reasons. My suggested setup does not account for inverter inefficiency, for example, so it will tend to understate the actual capacity. The big advantage of my original suggested test rig is that the needed items are less exotic and more usable for other purposes. If Jesse doesn't already own one of those plug in watt-hour meters, he probably wants a good excuse to get one. Ditto for the mini inverter. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:42 AM, Exeltech exelt...@yahoo.com wrote: Once the electrolyte has been changed out, all bets are off for using SG as an indicator for state of charge. Jamie Surette gave excellent commentary on a similar thread recently on how to handle a situation such as this. Mick's suggested procedure (below) will work, with caveats. Be sure you use a meter that records accumulated watt-hour usage in non-volatile memory. You'll be connecting the meter on the AC-side of the inverter, and when the AC goes off due to low DC input voltage, the meter will go off as well. The basic Kill-A-Watt meter (and perhaps others?) forget everything when the power goes off. P3 (mfgr of the K-A-W meter) make a model P4460 that remembers values even when powered down. Others likely do as well. I would recommend using incandescent lamps as a safer and more easily adjustable load. Parallel three 100 watt lamps on a power strip. With a meter (above) measure the actual power drawn by the lamps. As a backup timer for testing batteries, I use an ordinary analog clock .. the type with moving hands (remember those?). Got mine from a big-box store. It uses 3 watts, so is an insignificant load compared to 300-400 watts. Set the clock to 12 am and start your test. The clock will stop with the total run time when the inverter shuts off. Speaking of inverters .. use a model that requires a manual reset after low-voltage shutdown. Some types will automatically start back up if the voltage rises high enough again. This could give you a bit of a false reading as to total capacity Be careful. Dan --- On *Wed, 1/26/11, Mick Abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com* wrote: From: Mick Abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Load testing batteries? To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 9:19 AM Hello, Jesse~ Instead of trying for laboratory precision, here's a way to measure the battery capacity using equipment that you may already own: * Gather up appropriate safety stuff: gloves, goggles, baking soda, distilled water, off duty fireman, blast protection, etc. * Connect only two of the 6 volt batteries in series to make a 12 volt battery string. Put those on charge once you're sure they're warmed up thawed out. Maintain about 75 degrees Fahrenheit air temperature in the testing area. Recharge quality is important if you want to give the batteries a fair opportunity to show what they can do. * Install a DC breaker between battery positive and the positive DC terminal on a 12 volt inverter. The inverter should be 500 watts or bigger with AC plug in receptacles; you can connect inverter negative to battery negative power it up on the DC side. * Plug into the inverter with an AC kilowatt-hour meter (such as Kill-a-Watt, the Brand meter, WattsUp?, etc.) then plug into the kWh meter with an adjustable blow dryer. * Switch on the hair dryer at a low setting then dial up on the heat until your AC meter shows about 360 watts of power draw. The battery pair, if new, should be able to sustain a drain like this for about ten hours--this is based on the 298 amp-hour rate for that battery on the Rolls spec sheet. * Run the blow dryer until the inverter shuts off due to low voltage, then read the number of AC watt-hours that were clocked by the kWh meter. 298 amp hours X 12 volt nominal = 3,576 watt-hours. Battery professionals would replace a battery if it fails to deliver 50% of the original rated power. * Repeat this same test with the other battery pairs. As mentioned, this approach is not scientifically perfect, but it might be done with minimal outlays for new equipment...and the results will be close enough. Jolliness~ Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Jesse Dahl
[RE-wrenches] Photowatt warranty: who can I call?
Greetings, all~ A client has some Photowatt 72 cell modules--PW1000 is the model if I remember correctly. The client wants to have a warranty related chat with Photowatt, but they left the US market some time ago. Can anyone supply proper contact information for the mother ship in France? Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Help me locate Light It Technologies aka Montana Light aka Don Smith
Hi, Mechanics~ My contact information for Montana Light aka Light It Technologies has gone stale. The (406) 683-2697 phone number doesn't work, and moderate internet searches have also failed to turn up the connection. I need some of those lighting adapters that screw into an Edison base lamp socket then allow an MR-16 projector style bulb to plug in. I think LIT is about the only place to get those so I would appreciate if someone could tell me how to find that company. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex PP inverter bypass breakers
Hello, Jeremy or Amy~ The T240 auto-transformer did not ever come factory-installed on a Trace Power Panel. The T240 was always just a part, but some technicians have field installed those onto the blank space on a single inverter Power Panel. T240 does incorporate some Square-D breakers and I believe there were some blank spaces which could be used as desired. The Square-D Mechanical Interlock allows a toggle between two (QO or QOU) adjacent breakers, so that only one breaker can be on at a time. (This accessory requires that the breaker on the right side is double pole. The LH breaker can be double pole or single pole.) The part number for the Mechanical Interlock part is QOU2DTILA. The Mechanical Interlock was used in the gray box(es) at top of the Trace Power Panel and in that case the Interlock is working with QO style breakers plugged into a mini-sized QO breaker box. The gray cover on those mini breaker boxes was always a funky fit over the breakers inside...something just didn't seem to line up properly. The same Mechanical Interlock can also work with QOU (Unit mount) breakers from Square-D and those are the ones which were used inside the T-240 transformer. The QOU's do not plug into a conventional breaker bus but instead they have mounting tabs so they can be bolted down, and they accept a wire on both ends of the breaker. Proper ampacity rating for AC breakers depends on the transfer switch rating for the inverter in question. For DR series inverters those breakers were rated for 30 amps. For SW series inverters the AC breakers were rated for 60 amps. Breaker model numbers for Square-D begin with the series...QO or QOU in this case...followed by one digit to indicate the number of poles...followed by two digits to indicate the ampacity rating. Example: a double pole unit mount style breaker with 30 amp rating would be number QOU230 Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 10:19 AM, All Solar, Inc. Jeremy Amy Rodriguez allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Wrenches, I am trying to locate part numbers for the square D breakers and interlock used for one of the old power panels from Xantrex with a T240 enclosure ( I believe), used as the inverter output / bypass. I also seem to remember there is a mounting issue with the breakers also as they come thru the front of the 'white' panel's lid. Thanks in Advance for any help All Solar Inc. Jeremy and Amy Rodriguez 1463 M St Penrose, CO 81240 www.asolarelectric.com Phone 719-372-3808 Fax 719-372-3804 Email allso...@scswifi.net Email allso...@live.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Contractor experience with SunMaxx aka Silicon Solar...care to share?
Hi, SunMaxx Solar is mainly focused on solar heat with a bit of PV on the side. I wish to receive feedback from the RE-Wrench community on this company, good or bad. Replies would be welcomed on-List or off-List. My only interest in this company is as a prospective customer. The company began in '06--not a lengthy track record--and I believe their original company name was Silicon Solar--not to be confused with Silicon Energy in the Pacific Northwest. Their thermal flat plate collectors are presently manufactured in Austria but US based production is allegedly on the radar screen. SunMaxx does have some serpentine (meander) type collectors and allegedly they support steam back collector evacuation methods...through strangely they say steam back is only for their harp style collectors instead of the serpentine units. The company also sells evacuated tube collectors. SunMaxx is partially owned by TRA-Mage, the Utah based racking supplier...so maybe there is some strong financial backing. NABCEP certified thermal designers are on staff with SunMaxx so that's another good sign. I've been hunting for thermal suppliers--other than Schuco--who are keen on steam back for overheat protection but I've found nothing else in the US market. I welcome any feedback reports as I consider the SunMaxx option. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Late 2010 Report: Magnum Advanced Remote Magnum switchgear
will be helpful, and I thank all List participants for their valuable assistance. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 volt grid tie inverter
Hi, I don't know if you mean 120 volt nominal or 120 volt peak power voltage, but assuming the latter: * Consider the PV Powered 2000 watt unit. Operating range begins at 114 volts DC which is still borderline, OR: * Enphase if the volts amps happen to work out with serendipity, OR: * Aurora also has a string inverter with a low minimum DC input voltage, but it's transformerless so it's double fuses, double insulated wire, etc. Let us give thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Bob Ellison reelli...@gmail.com wrote: I have a customer who wants to grid tie a 120 volt dc system Does anyone know of an inverter that can do this? Thanks Bob ellison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 volt grid tie inverter
Agreed, Glenn~ and that SMA unit has a nice low input voltage requirement. Bob, might your client be wanting a grid intertie capable inverter which can run on a 120 volt battery bank--the medium voltage battery system which Chad Lampkin had championed? If so, it's game over for several reasons, including the NEC. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Glenn Burt glenn.b...@glbcc.com wrote: I think there is still an SMA 700W inverter available that uses 120VAC. -Glenn -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bob Ellison Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:14 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120 volt grid tie inverter I have a customer who wants to grid tie a 120 volt dc system Does anyone know of an inverter that can do this? Thanks Bob ellison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] paralleling FM-60's
This sounds like a job for a single Apollo T-100. If you do that, Jay, be sure to wire the solar strings with somewhat more than 36 PV cells for every 12 volts of battery. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Kent Osterberg k...@coveoregon.com wrote: William, There are some issues with putting the charge controller at the other end of the feeder: 1. The advantage of a higher voltage feeder is lost. 2. The voltage drop in the feeder will mess up the charge controller's absorption and float set points. Say there is only 1% drop in the deeper, that's 0.14 volt for a 12 volt system (2x for 24 or 4X for 48 volts). If the feeder loss is more ... You could raise the set points at the regulator to offset the feeder loss, but the loss in the feeder is not a constant. 3. The charge controllers are not NEMA 3 rated, they need to be inside. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar William Miller wrote: Jay: Bad idea. The differences in tolerances within components will make one work harder than the other. They will never balance. Why not put the charge controllers at the other end of the feeder? William Miller At 08:06 AM 10/20/2010, you wrote: HI All, Say anyone ever paralleled mx/fm-60's? I have a unique situation that would be very expensive to pull additional wire however the existing wire is large enough to need 2 fm-60s' If I put a diode between them so they don't feed each other any problems that anyone knows of? thanks, jay ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator auto start
Atkinson Electronics was building some control units which I have found to be OK. I believe AEE Solar stocks these units...maybe SunWize others, too. Model GCSM mini would not have the end to end decision making ability that would replace a Mate type setup, but model GCSM would cover most of the bases, including voltage based triggers. GCSM does not contain a daily clock for time based control...so quiet time functions are not built in. I checked www.atkinsonelectronics.com moments ago; info on GCSM used to be easy to find on that site...no more...so maybe they've moved uptown and maybe that's even discontinued now. You might want to call the mfr to make sure it's still a current production item before buying a unit from wholesale inventory. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:36 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Can anyone point me in the direction of a good, autonomous generator auto start. We have an off grid system with a substantial array (8 kw) and using a dual OutBack 3648 PP, but we have not had good luck with generator auto start using the relays and Mate within the OutBack equipment. I would like to try something whose function would be to sense battery voltage and start based on adjustable settings. Any favorites out there? The customer has a new Onan 12 kw gennie. Thanks, Daryl ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
