Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Ken Schaal]

>From my experience with reflective roofs galvanized quickly ages becoming
less reflective! White is best aluminum paint next.
Ken Schaal
CommonWealth Solar

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:17 AM frenergy  wrote:

> This is a very timely discussion for us also as we have many
> Midnight MNPV6 discos in the sun.  Though we're careful about tightening
> wire landings, using contact cleaner for the fuses and fuse holders, some
> installs seem to get hotter than others.  We just started making a very
> simple sheet metal heat shield of sorts spaced away from the face of the
> disco for ventilation which keeps direct sun off the "face" of the disco.
> We don't paint this shield to give the galvanized surface a chance to
> reflect the IR.
>
> Its a retro which we've covered the cost for to prevent
> callbacks for blown (cooked?) fuses. I haven't done any before and after
> temp checks but I know from a long history of this kind of work that temps
> inside that disco will be substantially lower. They haven't been out in the
> field long enough to get any data.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net
>
> On 11/18/2020 5:13 PM, Ray wrote:
>
> What is the brand and model of the disconnect? Temp ratings of the
> terminals?  I've definitely had fuse holders not make good contact with the
> fuses and burn the fuses at one end, instead of in the middle.  Have you
> looked at it with a Thermal imaging camera when its operating to see if its
> hot on one end of the fuse?
>
> Second, depending on the temperature it would be hitting inside the
> enclosure in the sun, you could be exceeding the rating of the #6
> conductor.  Assuming terminals rated at 75C, then from 310.16, a #6 is
> rated 65 A, but derate for temperature of 114F inside the enclosure gets
> you to .82 x 65 = 53.3, which is a bit less than the 54.45 that Dave just
> calculated for continuous duty.
>
> What color is the disconnect painted?  any chance of painting it white?
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 11/18/20 4:16 PM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:
>
> Jason,
> Bright sunny days, disconnect on the west side of house, maybe in the sun?
> 43.56A * 1.25 for continuous duty = 54.45A. If these disconnects are also
> baking in the sun, maybe the extra ambient heat is enough to push it over
> the edge? Just a thought.
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> *Dave Tedeyan, PE*
> Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
>
> 110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
> o. *607.277.1118 x121*  f. 607.277.2119
> www.taitem.com
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[frenergy]

            This is a very timely discussion for us also as we have 
many Midnight MNPV6 discos in the sun.  Though we're careful about 
tightening wire landings, using contact cleaner for the fuses and fuse 
holders, some installs seem to get hotter than others.  We just started 
making a very simple sheet metal heat shield of sorts spaced away from 
the face of the disco for ventilation which keeps direct sun off the 
"face" of the disco. We don't paint this shield to give the galvanized 
surface a chance to reflect the IR.


            Its a retro which we've covered the cost for to prevent 
callbacks for blown (cooked?) fuses. I haven't done any before and after 
temp checks but I know from a long history of this kind of work that 
temps inside that disco will be substantially lower. They haven't been 
out in the field long enough to get any data.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net

On 11/18/2020 5:13 PM, Ray wrote:


What is the brand and model of the disconnect? Temp ratings of the 
terminals?  I've definitely had fuse holders not make good contact 
with the fuses and burn the fuses at one end, instead of in the 
middle.  Have you looked at it with a Thermal imaging camera when its 
operating to see if its hot on one end of the fuse?


Second, depending on the temperature it would be hitting inside the 
enclosure in the sun, you could be exceeding the rating of the #6 
conductor.  Assuming terminals rated at 75C, then from 310.16, a #6 is 
rated 65 A, but derate for temperature of 114F inside the enclosure 
gets you to .82 x 65 = 53.3, which is a bit less than the 54.45 that 
Dave just calculated for continuous duty.


What color is the disconnect painted?  any chance of painting it white?

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 11/18/20 4:16 PM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:

Jason,
Bright sunny days, disconnect on the west side of house, maybe in the 
sun? 43.56A * 1.25 for continuous duty = 54.45A. If these disconnects 
are also baking in the sun, maybe the extra ambient heat is enough to 
push it over the edge? Just a thought.

Cheers,
Dave

*Dave Tedeyan, PE*
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. _607.277.1118 x121_  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com 




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

ski <
>>>>>>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder about that. Of course, it could be the "inverter output
>>>>>>>>>> circuit" having a fault in the wiring still (an intermittent issue
>>>>>>>>>> somewhere within the IQ cable or home run wiring). But internal to 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> microinverter, is it possible that a fault could still occur at 
>>>>>>>>>> night? I
>>>>>>>>>> had a suggestion from another wrench that there are film capacitors 
>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>> AC output side, but are these isolated when there is no DC input? It 
>>>>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>>> unlikely that this would be an issue, but I have seen microinverters
>>>>>>>>>> reporting a couple of watts at night (in Enlighten). I'm not sure 
>>>>>>>>>> how real
>>>>>>>>>> that is.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause
>>>>>>>>>> BOTH a branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip 
>>>>>>>>>> simultaneously?
>>>>>>>>>> That seems odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, 
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> don't often see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder 
>>>>>>>>>> circuit
>>>>>>>>>> breakers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between
>>>>>>>>>> the BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I 
>>>>>>>>>> would think
>>>>>>>>>> this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of 
>>>>>>>>>> CH
>>>>>>>>>> feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM <
>>>>>>>>>> drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the
>>>>>>>>>>> inverters causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the 
>>>>>>>>>>> grid.
>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I
>>>>>>>>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That 
>>>>>>>>>>> was my
>>>>>>>>>>> first suspicion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
>>>>>>>>>>> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips 
>>>>>>>>>>> off at?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch
>>>>>>>>>>> circuit breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same 
>>>>>>>>>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Dave Tedeyan]

gt;>>>>>>>> breakers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between
>>>>>>>>> the BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would 
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH
>>>>>>>>> feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM <
>>>>>>>>> drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the
>>>>>>>>>> inverters causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the 
>>>>>>>>>> grid.
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I
>>>>>>>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That 
>>>>>>>>>> was my
>>>>>>>>>> first suspicion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
>>>>>>>>>> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips 
>>>>>>>>>> off at?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch
>>>>>>>>>> circuit breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch 
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which
>>>>>>>>>> breaker they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for 
>>>>>>>>>> about two
>>>>>>>>>> weeks and then trip again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole
>>>>>>>>>> system apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I 
>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>> that I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive
>>>>>>>>>> proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>>>>>>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we
>>>>>>>>>> will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I 
>>>>>>>>>> doubt I
>>>>>>>>>> have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the 
>>>>>>>>>> combined
>>>>>>>>>> breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were 
>>>>>>>>>> tripping
>>>>>>>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Of all the supply side connected

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jay]

>>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 2:05 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The breaker in the main panel IS tripping simultaneously with one of 
>>>>>>>>> the branch circuit breakers each time.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 12:43 PM Jay  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> A question that keeps nagging me is why do these breakers trip and 
>>>>>>>>>> not the breaker in the main panel?  
>>>>>>>>>> Presuming there is a 40 amp in the main
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I would have thought that given all the times the breakers have 
>>>>>>>>>> tripped at some point that one would have tripped and I can’t 
>>>>>>>>>> understand why not?  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Jay 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Jerry Shafer 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Wrenches
>>>>>>>>>>> Looking g at the bigger breaker tripping at the same time is very 
>>>>>>>>>>> likely do to response time of the breaker nothing more. As l 
>>>>>>>>>>> suggested in a previous message. Use a non bridged breaker to see 
>>>>>>>>>>> if it is one or both legs that trip. Also an eguage will help to 
>>>>>>>>>>> see what if anything leads up to the failure and when. 
>>>>>>>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>>>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 7:58 AM Jason Szumlanski 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder about that. Of course, it could be the "inverter output 
>>>>>>>>>>>> circuit" having a fault in the wiring still (an intermittent issue 
>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere within the IQ cable or home run wiring). But internal to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the microinverter, is it possible that a fault could still occur 
>>>>>>>>>>>> at night? I had a suggestion from another wrench that there are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> film capacitors on the AC output side, but are these isolated when 
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is no DC input? It seems unlikely that this would be an 
>>>>>>>>>>>> issue, but I have seen microinverters reporting a couple of watts 
>>>>>>>>>>>> at night (in Enlighten). I'm not sure how real that is.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause 
>>>>>>>>>>>> BOTH a branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip 
>>>>>>>>>>>> simultaneously? That seems odd to me. If any normal load branch 
>>>>>>>>>>>> circuit has a fault, you don't often see premises main breakers 
>>>>>>>>>>>> tripping, or even feeder circuit breakers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> would think this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure 
>>>>>>>>>>>> there are tons of CH feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch 
>>>>>>>>>>>> circuits downstream. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

in panel?
>>>>>>> Presuming there is a 40 amp in the main
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would have thought that given all the times the breakers have
>>>>>>> tripped at some point that one would have tripped and I can’t understand
>>>>>>> why not?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jay
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Jerry Shafer 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Wrenches
>>>>>>> Looking g at the bigger breaker tripping at the same time is very
>>>>>>> likely do to response time of the breaker nothing more. As l suggested 
>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>> previous message. Use a non bridged breaker to see if it is one or both
>>>>>>> legs that trip. Also an eguage will help to see what if anything leads 
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> to the failure and when.
>>>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 7:58 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>>>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder about that. Of course, it could be the "inverter output
>>>>>>>> circuit" having a fault in the wiring still (an intermittent issue
>>>>>>>> somewhere within the IQ cable or home run wiring). But internal to the
>>>>>>>> microinverter, is it possible that a fault could still occur at night? 
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> had a suggestion from another wrench that there are film capacitors on 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> AC output side, but are these isolated when there is no DC input? It 
>>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>> unlikely that this would be an issue, but I have seen microinverters
>>>>>>>> reporting a couple of watts at night (in Enlighten). I'm not sure how 
>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>> that is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause
>>>>>>>> BOTH a branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip 
>>>>>>>> simultaneously?
>>>>>>>> That seems odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, 
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> don't often see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder circuit
>>>>>>>> breakers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between
>>>>>>>> the BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would 
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH
>>>>>>>> feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM <
>>>>>>>> drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the
>>>>>>>>> inverters causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the 
>>>>>>>>> grid.
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I
>>>>>>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That 
>>>>>>>>> was my
>>>>>>>>> first suspicion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
>>>>>>>>> temperatures?

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

gt;>>>>> BOTH a branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip simultaneously?
>>>>>>> That seems odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, you
>>>>>>> don't often see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder circuit
>>>>>>> breakers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between the
>>>>>>> BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would think
>>>>>>> this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH
>>>>>>> feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the
>>>>>>>> inverters causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the 
>>>>>>>> grid.
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I
>>>>>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was 
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> first suspicion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
>>>>>>>> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips 
>>>>>>>> off at?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>>>>>>>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker
>>>>>>>> they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two 
>>>>>>>> weeks
>>>>>>>> and then trip again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole
>>>>>>>> system apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I 
>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>> that I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive
>>>>>>>> proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>>>>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we
>>>>>>>> will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I 
>>>>>>>> doubt I
>>>>>>>> have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined
>>>>>>>> breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were 
>>>>>>>> tripping
>>>>>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have
>>>>>>>> never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have 
>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>> many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I 
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue 
>>>>>>>> whatsoever.
>>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jerry Shafer]

gt;>>>> inverters causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the 
>>>>>>>> grid.
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I
>>>>>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was 
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> first suspicion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
>>>>>>>> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips 
>>>>>>>> off at?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>>>>>>>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker
>>>>>>>> they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two 
>>>>>>>> weeks
>>>>>>>> and then trip again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole
>>>>>>>> system apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I 
>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>> that I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive
>>>>>>>> proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>>>>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we
>>>>>>>> will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I 
>>>>>>>> doubt I
>>>>>>>> have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined
>>>>>>>> breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were 
>>>>>>>> tripping
>>>>>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have
>>>>>>>> never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have 
>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>> many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I 
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue 
>>>>>>>> whatsoever.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and
>>>>>>>> max string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the
>>>>>>>> string's associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped
>>>>>>>> again. We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the
>>>>>>>> breaker was less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice 
>>>>>>>> days
>>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000
>>>>>>>> watts but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra
>>>>>>>> careful going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max
>>>>>>>> published...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My story.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scot
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>>>>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>>>>>>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 
>>>>>>>> microinverters
>>>>>>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers
>>>>>>>> and the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
>>>>>>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
>>>>>>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
>>>>>>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and 
>>>>>>>> cap,
>>>>>>>> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a
>>>>>>>> different branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped
>>>>>>>> simultaneously. We checked that branch circuit and could not find any
>>>>>>>> fault. It seems unlikely that two branch circuit breakers would be 
>>>>>>>> faulty,
>>>>>>>> so we have now switched out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> culprit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers
>>>>>>>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on 
>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
>>>>>>>> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a 
>>>>>>>> fusible
>>>>>>>> disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line
>>>>>>>> fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on 
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> there is in fact a fault.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase
>>>>>>>> systems in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One 
>>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>>> out to be branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed 
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> different breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal 
>>>>>>>> fault
>>>>>>>> which eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke 
>>>>>>>> billowing out
>>>>>>>> of it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. 
>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>> case seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jay]

 branch circuits 
>>>>>>>>> downstream. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM 
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the 
>>>>>>>>>> inverters causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the 
>>>>>>>>>> grid.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I 
>>>>>>>>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That 
>>>>>>>>>>> was my first suspicion.
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High 
>>>>>>>>>>> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips 
>>>>>>>>>>> off at?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch 
>>>>>>>>>>>> circuit breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same 
>>>>>>>>>>>> branch this time. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which 
>>>>>>>>>>>> breaker they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for 
>>>>>>>>>>>> about two weeks and then trip again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole 
>>>>>>>>>>>> system apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel that I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an 
>>>>>>>>>>>> expensive proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this 
>>>>>>>>>>>> point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we 
>>>>>>>>>>>> will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt I have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the combined breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit 
>>>>>>>>>>>> breakers were tripping simultaneously with the combined output 
>>>>>>>>>>>> breaker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have 
>>>>>>>>>>>> never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> have seen many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried 
>>>>>>>>>>>> early on that I would be replacing fuses constantly, but that has 
>>>>>>>>>>>> not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>   

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

>>> at?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>>>>>>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker
>>>>>>> they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two 
>>>>>>> weeks
>>>>>>> and then trip again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole
>>>>>>> system apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel
>>>>>>> that I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive
>>>>>>> proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>>>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we
>>>>>>> will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I 
>>>>>>> doubt I
>>>>>>> have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined
>>>>>>> breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>>>>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have
>>>>>>> never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have 
>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>> many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I 
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue 
>>>>>>> whatsoever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and
>>>>>>> max string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the
>>>>>>> string's associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped
>>>>>>> again. We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the
>>>>>>> breaker was less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice 
>>>>>>> days
>>>>>>> since.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000
>>>>>>> watts but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra
>>>>>>> careful going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max
>>>>>>> published...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scot
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>>>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>>>>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>>>>>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 
>>>>>>> microinverters
>>>>>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers
>>>>>>> and the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
>>>>>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
>>>>>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
>>>>>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and 
>>>>>>> cap,
>>>>>>> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
>>>>>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
>>>>>>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems 
>>>>>>> unlikely
>>>>>>> that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now 
>>>>>>> switched
>>>>>>> out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers
>>>>>>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on 
>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
>>>>>>> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a 
>>>>>>> fusible
>>>>>>> disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line
>>>>>>> fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on 
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> there is in fact a fault.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase
>>>>>>> systems in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One 
>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>> out to be branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on
>>>>>>> different breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal 
>>>>>>> fault
>>>>>>> which eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing 
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> of it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This
>>>>>>> case seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

lt;
>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder about that. Of course, it could be the "inverter output
>>>>> circuit" having a fault in the wiring still (an intermittent issue
>>>>> somewhere within the IQ cable or home run wiring). But internal to the
>>>>> microinverter, is it possible that a fault could still occur at night? I
>>>>> had a suggestion from another wrench that there are film capacitors on the
>>>>> AC output side, but are these isolated when there is no DC input? It seems
>>>>> unlikely that this would be an issue, but I have seen microinverters
>>>>> reporting a couple of watts at night (in Enlighten). I'm not sure how real
>>>>> that is.
>>>>>
>>>>> The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause BOTH
>>>>> a branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip simultaneously? That
>>>>> seems odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, you don't
>>>>> often see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder circuit 
>>>>> breakers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between the
>>>>> BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would think
>>>>> this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH
>>>>> feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the inverters
>>>>>> causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the grid.
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I
>>>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was my
>>>>>> first suspicion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
>>>>>> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips off 
>>>>>> at?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>>>>>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker
>>>>>> they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks
>>>>>> and then trip again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole
>>>>>> system apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel
>>>>>> that I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive
>>>>>> proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we
>>>>>> will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt 
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined
>>>>>> breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>>>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have
>>>>>> never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have 
>>>>>> seen
>>>>>&

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Mac Lewis]

 there is no DC input? It seems
>>>> unlikely that this would be an issue, but I have seen microinverters
>>>> reporting a couple of watts at night (in Enlighten). I'm not sure how real
>>>> that is.
>>>>
>>>> The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause BOTH a
>>>> branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip simultaneously? That
>>>> seems odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, you don't
>>>> often see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder circuit breakers.
>>>>
>>>> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between the
>>>> BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would think
>>>> this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH
>>>> feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the inverters
>>>>> causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the grid.
>>>>> ---
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I
>>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was my
>>>>> first suspicion.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
>>>>> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips off 
>>>>> at?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>>>>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>>>>
>>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker
>>>>> they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks
>>>>> and then trip again.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
>>>>> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
>>>>> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. 
>>>>> I
>>>>> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>>>>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>>>>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined 
>>>>> breaker.
>>>>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have
>>>>> never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen
>>>>> many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would
>>>>> be replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the 
>>>>> string's
>>>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again.
>>>>> We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker
>>>>> was less than perfect from the start as 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would think
>>> this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH
>>> feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the inverters
>>>> causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the grid.
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I
>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was my
>>>> first suspicion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
>>>> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips off at?
>>>>
>>>> Ray Walters
>>>> Remote Solar
>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>
>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>>>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>>>
>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker
>>>> they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks
>>>> and then trip again.
>>>>
>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
>>>> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
>>>> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
>>>> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>>>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>>>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
>>>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>
>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
>>>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
>>>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
>>>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string's
>>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again.
>>>> We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker
>>>> was less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice days since.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>>>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My story.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters
>>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
>>&g

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Darryl Thayer]

In my experiance if the combiner is in the sun breakers will be hot
breakers are a thermal device and should be kept at room temperature.  Try
substituting the HCAC type breaker for the stanard breaker

On Thu, May 21, 2020, 8:57 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase
> IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each
> coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>
> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap,
> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>
> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely
> that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched
> out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.
>
> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers
> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another
> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible
> disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line
> fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if
> there is in fact a fault.
>
> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems
> in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be
> branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different
> breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault which
> eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing out of
> it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This case
> seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Amos Post]

;>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they 
>>>> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and 
>>>> then trip again.
>>>>  
>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system 
>>>> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I 
>>>> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. 
>>>> I really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>>  
>>>> Jason
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski 
>>>> >>> <mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> wrote:
>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will 
>>>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have 
>>>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined 
>>>> breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping 
>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>  
>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never 
>>>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many 
>>>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be 
>>>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM >>> <mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com>> wrote:
>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max 
>>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the 
>>>> string's associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We 
>>>> replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was 
>>>> less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice days since.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but 
>>>> in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful 
>>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published...
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> My story.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Scot
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> From: RE-wrenches >>> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> On Behalf Of Jason 
>>>> Szumlanski
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>>> To: RE-wrenches >>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase 
>>>> IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each 
>>>> coming into an Enphase AC combiner. 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and 
>>>> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been 
>>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 
>>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept 
>>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and 
>>>> cap, etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker. 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different 
>>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We 
>>>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems 
>>>> unlikely that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now 
>>>> switched out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers 
>>>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another 
>>>> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One 
>>>> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a 
>>>> fusible disconnect. Maybe the i

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

 on that I would be
>>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string's
>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again.
>>> We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker
>>> was less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice days since.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My story.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters
>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
>>> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap,
>>> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
>>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely
>>> that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched
>>> out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers
>>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another
>>> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
>>> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible
>>> disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line
>>> fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if
>>> there is in fact a fault.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase
>>> systems in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned
>>> out to be branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on
>>> different breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault
>>> which eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing out
>>> of it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This
>>> case seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>
>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jay]

s worried early on that I would be 
>>>>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max 
>>>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the 
>>>>> string's associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We 
>>>>> replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was 
>>>>> less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice days since.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts 
>>>>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful 
>>>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published...
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> My story.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Scot
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf 
>>>>> Of Jason Szumlanski
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>>>> To: RE-wrenches 
>>>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and 
>>>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters 
>>>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and 
>>>>> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been 
>>>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 
>>>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept 
>>>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and 
>>>>> cap, etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different 
>>>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We 
>>>>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems 
>>>>> unlikely that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now 
>>>>> switched out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers 
>>>>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on 
>>>>> another diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. 
>>>>> One thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a 
>>>>> fusible disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the 
>>>>> two line fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault 
>>>>> is on if there is in fact a fault.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems 
>>>>> in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to 
>>>>> be branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on 
>>>>> different breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal 
>>>>> fault which eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke 
>>>>> billowing out of it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker 
>>>>> multiple times. This case seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm 
>>>>> perplexed. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>> 
>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
Looking g at the bigger breaker tripping at the same time is very likely do
to response time of the breaker nothing more. As l suggested in a previous
message. Use a non bridged breaker to see if it is one or both legs that
trip. Also an eguage will help to see what if anything leads up to the
failure and when.
Jerry
Jerry

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 7:58 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I wonder about that. Of course, it could be the "inverter output circuit"
> having a fault in the wiring still (an intermittent issue somewhere within
> the IQ cable or home run wiring). But internal to the microinverter, is it
> possible that a fault could still occur at night? I had a suggestion from
> another wrench that there are film capacitors on the AC output side, but
> are these isolated when there is no DC input? It seems unlikely that this
> would be an issue, but I have seen microinverters reporting a couple of
> watts at night (in Enlighten). I'm not sure how real that is.
>
> The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause BOTH a
> branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip simultaneously? That
> seems odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, you don't
> often see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder circuit breakers.
>
> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between the BR220
> and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would think this
> would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH feeder
> breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM 
> wrote:
>
>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the inverters
>> causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the grid.
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>
>>
>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I confirmed
>> that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was my first
>> suspicion.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>>
>> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
>> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips off at?
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>
>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>
>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
>> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
>> then trip again.
>>
>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
>> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
>> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
>> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>
>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>
>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string's
>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>
>>
>>
>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We
>> replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was
>> less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice days since.
>>
>>
>>
>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>> going forward on IQ7

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

I wonder about that. Of course, it could be the "inverter output circuit"
having a fault in the wiring still (an intermittent issue somewhere within
the IQ cable or home run wiring). But internal to the microinverter, is it
possible that a fault could still occur at night? I had a suggestion from
another wrench that there are film capacitors on the AC output side, but
are these isolated when there is no DC input? It seems unlikely that this
would be an issue, but I have seen microinverters reporting a couple of
watts at night (in Enlighten). I'm not sure how real that is.

The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause BOTH a
branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip simultaneously? That
seems odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, you don't
often see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder circuit breakers.

I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between the BR220
and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would think this
would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH feeder
breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream.



On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM  wrote:

> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the inverters
> causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the grid.
> ---
>
>
>
> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
>
> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I confirmed
> that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was my first
> suspicion.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:
>
> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips off at?
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>
> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
> then trip again.
>
> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>
> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>
> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string's
> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>
>
>
> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We
> replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was
> less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice days since.
>
>
>
> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but
> in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful going
> forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published...
>
>
>
> My story.
>
>
>
> Scot
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>
>
>
> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase
> IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each
> coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>
>
>
> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[drake . chamberlin]

If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the inverters
causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the grid. 


---

On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was my first suspicion. 

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote: 


Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High temperatures?  Do 
you have any indication what time of day it trips off at?

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: 
Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.  

As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and then trip again. 

I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this point. 

Jason 

On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski  wrote: 

I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping simultaneously with the combined output breaker. 

Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever. 

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote: 

Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string's associated breaker in the Enphase combiner. 

We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice days since. 

This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published... 

My story. 

Scot 


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng 

I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each coming into an Enphase AC combiner. 

What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap, etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.  

Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.   

I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if there is in fact a fault. 

I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault which eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing out of it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This case seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.  

Jason Szumlanski 

Florida Solar Design Group 


___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jerry Shafer]

You can tighten up the graph to minutes, even seconds if you set it up to
do so
Jerry

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020, 10:01 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I didn't think an eGauge would provide that granular of detail if there is
> a very brief intermittent issue. If I'm wrong about that it might be worth
> a try.
>
> What I really want to do is install a separate breaker in the main panel
> for the Envoy so it doesn't lose power when the IQ Combiner main breaker
> trips. I wonder if that would provide me any insight into what's happening
> immediately after the PV branch circuit and feeder circuit trip.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 12:48 PM Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
>> Jason, Wrenches
>> Can you install a data logger, say an eguage so you can see spikes or a
>> frequency shift, surge, most anything.
>> Install two non connected breakers to isolate the line, just for testing
>> purposes and see if it's only one that pops.
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020, 9:11 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I considered that, but it's tripping at night, so it's not a power
>>> output issue. It does have #6 wire, so this could be done, but I don't
>>> think it's related. It's a genuine CH240 breaker. We even replaced it once
>>> before.
>>>
>>> At this point, I must have a fault or faults on the roof. Maybe a rodent
>>> chewed through some wires. I'm going to wait for another fault and then go
>>> pull the modules to check it out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 11:00 AM jay  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>>
>>>> My curiosity is about both breakers tripping.
>>>> I would suggest using a larger output breaker, I believe its a 40, put
>>>> in a 50 as a test.  I would assume the wire size will still be protected by
>>>> the 50.
>>>>
>>>> And I would also ask if the breakers are actual CH or clones?
>>>>
>>>> jay
>>>>
>>>> peltz power
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 7:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>>>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>>>
>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker
>>>> they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks
>>>> and then trip again.
>>>>
>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
>>>> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
>>>> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
>>>> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>>>>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>>>>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined 
>>>>> breaker.
>>>>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have
>>>>> never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen
>>>>> many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would
>>>>> be replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>>>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the 
>>>>>> string’s
>>>>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We rese

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

I didn't think an eGauge would provide that granular of detail if there is
a very brief intermittent issue. If I'm wrong about that it might be worth
a try.

What I really want to do is install a separate breaker in the main panel
for the Envoy so it doesn't lose power when the IQ Combiner main breaker
trips. I wonder if that would provide me any insight into what's happening
immediately after the PV branch circuit and feeder circuit trip.




On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 12:48 PM Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> Jason, Wrenches
> Can you install a data logger, say an eguage so you can see spikes or a
> frequency shift, surge, most anything.
> Install two non connected breakers to isolate the line, just for testing
> purposes and see if it's only one that pops.
> Jerry
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020, 9:11 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> I considered that, but it's tripping at night, so it's not a power output
>> issue. It does have #6 wire, so this could be done, but I don't think it's
>> related. It's a genuine CH240 breaker. We even replaced it once before.
>>
>> At this point, I must have a fault or faults on the roof. Maybe a rodent
>> chewed through some wires. I'm going to wait for another fault and then go
>> pull the modules to check it out.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 11:00 AM jay  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jason,
>>>
>>> My curiosity is about both breakers tripping.
>>> I would suggest using a larger output breaker, I believe its a 40, put
>>> in a 50 as a test.  I would assume the wire size will still be protected by
>>> the 50.
>>>
>>> And I would also ask if the breakers are actual CH or clones?
>>>
>>> jay
>>>
>>> peltz power
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 7:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>>
>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
>>> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
>>> then trip again.
>>>
>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
>>> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
>>> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
>>> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>>>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>>>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
>>>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>
>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
>>>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
>>>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
>>>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the 
>>>>> string’s
>>>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again.
>>>>> We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker
>>>>> was less than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>>>>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>>>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…
>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jerry Shafer]

Jason, Wrenches
Can you install a data logger, say an eguage so you can see spikes or a
frequency shift, surge, most anything.
Install two non connected breakers to isolate the line, just for testing
purposes and see if it's only one that pops.
Jerry


On Mon, Jun 1, 2020, 9:11 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I considered that, but it's tripping at night, so it's not a power output
> issue. It does have #6 wire, so this could be done, but I don't think it's
> related. It's a genuine CH240 breaker. We even replaced it once before.
>
> At this point, I must have a fault or faults on the roof. Maybe a rodent
> chewed through some wires. I'm going to wait for another fault and then go
> pull the modules to check it out.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 11:00 AM jay  wrote:
>
>> Hi Jason,
>>
>> My curiosity is about both breakers tripping.
>> I would suggest using a larger output breaker, I believe its a 40, put in
>> a 50 as a test.  I would assume the wire size will still be protected by
>> the 50.
>>
>> And I would also ask if the breakers are actual CH or clones?
>>
>> jay
>>
>> peltz power
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 7:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>
>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
>> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
>> then trip again.
>>
>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
>> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
>> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
>> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
>>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>
>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
>>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
>>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
>>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s
>>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again.
>>>> We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker
>>>> was less than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>>>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My story.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters
>>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
>>>> the combine CH240 breaker in the 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

I considered that, but it's tripping at night, so it's not a power output
issue. It does have #6 wire, so this could be done, but I don't think it's
related. It's a genuine CH240 breaker. We even replaced it once before.

At this point, I must have a fault or faults on the roof. Maybe a rodent
chewed through some wires. I'm going to wait for another fault and then go
pull the modules to check it out.



On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 11:00 AM jay  wrote:

> Hi Jason,
>
> My curiosity is about both breakers tripping.
> I would suggest using a larger output breaker, I believe its a 40, put in
> a 50 as a test.  I would assume the wire size will still be protected by
> the 50.
>
> And I would also ask if the breakers are actual CH or clones?
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
> On Jun 1, 2020, at 7:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>
> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
> then trip again.
>
> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>
>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s
>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again.
>>> We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker
>>> was less than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My story.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters
>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
>>> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap,
>>> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
>>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely
>>> that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched
>>> out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

The problem is the intermittent nature of the problem. It can take 2-weeks
or more to trip again. The owner is not going to want to leave a string off
for an indefinite period of time.



On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 11:00 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> Run the system without the branch that tripped. Sorry if I missed that you
> have done this. I appreciate you reminding me why I keep all of the
> electronics inside. I get tempted[image: Wink]
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/3184eed65ad0009b17f7a1eb448e78663d79c7d8?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.sti.net%2Foffgridsolar%2F&userId=1613865&signature=7eb043f982852f6d>
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 10:23:35 -0400, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>
> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
> then trip again.
>
> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>
>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string's
>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again.
>>> We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker
>>> was less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice days since.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My story.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters
>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
>>> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap,
>>> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
>>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely
>>> that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

That was the second thing I checked after the j-box. They all appear to be
good. I replaced a questionable one, but the tripping continued. I have
seen end cap issues before, especially if the hang down and get wet.

There are no excess connectors with sealing caps, so it's not that, either.



On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:28 AM August Goers  wrote:

> Hi Jason - I know I've mentioned this before, but were you able to verify
> that the branch trunk cable end caps are properly installed? We've had a
> few cases of intermittent breaker tripping where the end caps were not
> installed, had fallen off, or not properly installed. A little moisture
> leads to shorts.
>
> August
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 7:23 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>
>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
>> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
>> then trip again.
>>
>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
>> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
>> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
>> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
>>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>
>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
>>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
>>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
>>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s
>>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again.
>>>> We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker
>>>> was less than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>>>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My story.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters
>>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
>>>> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
>>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
>>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
>>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap,
>>>> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
>>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simul

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I confirmed
that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was my first
suspicion.



On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray  wrote:

> Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High
> temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips off at?
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>
> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
> then trip again.
>
> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>
>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s
>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again.
>>> We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker
>>> was less than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My story.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters
>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
>>> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap,
>>> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
>>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely
>>> that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched
>>> out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers
>>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another
>>> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
>>> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Maverick Brown]

Jason

Can you check for heat? How close is the branch breaker to the main breaker? 
Maybe the bus bar is loose or the breaker is loose or wire is loose somewhere 
causing heat to trip the breaker. 

Thank you,

Maverick


> On Jun 1, 2020, at 9:24 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit breaker 
> tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time. 
> 
> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they are 
> landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and then 
> trip again.
> 
> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system apart. 
> At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I need to 
> replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I really 
> don't know what else to do at this point.
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski 
>>  wrote:
>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will see). 
>> Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have two 
>> microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker. I 
>> was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping simultaneously 
>> with the combined output breaker.
>> 
>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never seen 
>> a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many 
>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be 
>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max 
>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s 
>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We 
>>> replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was 
>>> less than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but 
>>> in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful going 
>>> forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> My story.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Scot
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>> To: RE-wrenches 
>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase 
>>> IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each 
>>> coming into an Enphase AC combiner. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and the 
>>> combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been tripping 
>>> simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 months. It 
>>> was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept investigating that 
>>> string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap, etc. Finally we 
>>> swapped out the BR220 breaker. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different branch 
>>> circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We checked 
>>> that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely that 
>>> two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched out 
>>> the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers crossed. 
>>> If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another 
>>> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One 
>>> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible 
>>> disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line 
>>> fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if 
>>> there is in fact a fau

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[jay]

Hi Jason,

My curiosity is about both breakers tripping.  
I would suggest using a larger output breaker, I believe its a 40, put in a 50 
as a test.  I would assume the wire size will still be protected by the 50.  

And I would also ask if the breakers are actual CH or clones?

jay

peltz power

> On Jun 1, 2020, at 7:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit breaker 
> tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time. 
> 
> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they are 
> landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and then 
> trip again.
> 
> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system apart. 
> At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I need to 
> replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I really 
> don't know what else to do at this point.
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski 
>  <mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> wrote:
> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will see). 
> Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have two 
> microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker. I was 
> just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping simultaneously with 
> the combined output breaker.
> 
> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never seen 
> a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many combined 
> output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be replacing 
> fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  <mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com>> wrote:
> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max string 
> length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s 
> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
> 
>  
> 
> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We 
> replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was 
> less than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.
> 
>  
> 
> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but in 
> reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful going 
> forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…
> 
>  
> 
> My story.
> 
>  
> 
> Scot
> 
>  
> 
> From: RE-wrenches  <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> On Behalf Of Jason 
> Szumlanski
> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
> To: RE-wrenches  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
> 
>  
> 
> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase IQ 
> system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each coming 
> into an Enphase AC combiner. 
> 
>  
> 
> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and the 
> combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been tripping 
> simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 months. It was 
> always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept investigating that string, 
> checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap, etc. Finally we swapped out 
> the BR220 breaker. 
> 
>  
> 
> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different branch 
> circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We checked that 
> branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely that two 
> branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched out the 
> CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.  
> 
>  
> 
> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers crossed. 
> If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another diagnostic 
> step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One thought I had was 
> to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible disconnect. Maybe 
> the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line fuses so at least I 
> could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if there is in fact a 
> fault.
> 
>  
> 
> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems in 
> the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be 
> branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different 
> breakers. Another time we had an inverter w

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Run the system without the branch that tripped. Sorry if I missed that
you have done this. I appreciate you reminding me why I keep all of the
electronics inside. I get tempted  

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go
where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail
offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 10:23:35
-0400, Jason Szumlanski  wrote:  Well, that didn't resolve it. The main
breaker and a branch circuit breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was
the same branch this time.   As my next diagnostic step I swapped two
circuits (on which breaker they are landed). If history is a guide, it will
work for about two weeks and then trip again.   I'm dumbfounded. I really
don't want to have to tear this whole system apart. At this point, if I
have to remove all the modules, I feel that I need to replace all of the
trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I really don't know what
else to do at this point.   Jason
  On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM
Jason Szumlanski  wrote:I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker
was compromised (we will see). Since it happened that two different strings
tripped, I doubt I have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to
be the combined breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers
were tripping simultaneously with the combined output breaker.   Of all the
supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never seen a
combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many combined
output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be replacing
fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever. 


On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:

Actually, we had a IQ7
string loaded up to its max panel size and max string length and in the
spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string's associated breaker in
the Enphase combiner. 

We reset but of course that breaker was impaired
and it tripped again. We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We
suspect the breaker was less than perfect from the start as we've add
equally nice days since. 

This almost reminds me of loading up Outback
FM80. It says 4,000 watts but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike.
I will be extra careful going forward on IQ7 string length when going to
the max published... 

My story. 

Scot 

FROM: RE-wrenches  ON BEHALF OF
Jason Szumlanski
SENT: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
TO: RE-wrenches

SUBJECT: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng  

I'm trying
to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase IQ system.
There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each coming into an
Enphase AC combiner.   

What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch
circuit breakers and the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load
center have been tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times
in the last 6 months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we
kept investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and
cap, etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.

Fast forward 4
weeks, and we got another call. This time a different branch circuit
breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We checked that branch
circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely that two branch
circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched out the CH240
main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.

I'm not totally
confident in this resolution and I have my fingers crossed. If that doesn't
work, does anyone have any suggestions on another diagnostic step? These
intermittent problems are a major hassle. One thought I had was to switch
to a supply side interconnection with a fusible disconnect. Maybe the
intermittent fault would blow one of the two line fuses so at least I could
narrow it down to which line the fault is on if there is in fact a fault.  


I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems
in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be
branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different
breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault which
eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing out of
it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This case
seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.

Jason Szumlanski
 

Florida Solar Design Group   

 
___
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Alliance

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Bryan Norkunas]

Are the module pv connectors, the same brand as the pv connectors on the 
Enphase inverters?

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc. 

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 Description: Description: cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470 Please print only 
if necessary.

 

NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the 
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by 
replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Monday, June 1, 2020 7:24 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

 

Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit breaker 
tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time. 

 

As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they are 
landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and then trip 
again.

 

I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system apart. 
At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I need to 
replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I really 
don't know what else to do at this point.

 

Jason

 

 

On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski 
 wrote:

I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will see). 
Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have two 
microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker. I was 
just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping simultaneously with 
the combined output breaker.

 

Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never seen a 
combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many combined 
output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be replacing fuses 
constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.

 

 




 

 

 

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:

Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max string 
length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s associated 
breaker in the Enphase combiner.

 

We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We 
replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was less 
than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.

 

This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but in 
reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful going 
forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…

 

My story.

 

Scot

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

 

I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase IQ 
system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each coming into 
an Enphase AC combiner. 

 

What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and the 
combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been tripping 
simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 months. It was 
always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept investigating that string, 
checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap, etc. Finally we swapped out 
the BR220 breaker. 

 

Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different branch 
circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We checked that 
branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely that two branch 
circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched out the CH240 main 
breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.  

 

I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers crossed. If 
that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another diagnostic step? 
These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One thought I had was to switch 
to a supply side interconnection with a fusible disconnect. Maybe the 
intermittent fault would blow one of the two line fuses so at least I could 
narrow it down to which line the fault is on if there is in fact a fault.

 

I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems in 
the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be branch 
circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different breakers. 
Another time we had an inverte

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[August Goers]

Hi Jason - I know I've mentioned this before, but were you able to verify
that the branch trunk cable end caps are properly installed? We've had a
few cases of intermittent breaker tripping where the end caps were not
installed, had fallen off, or not properly installed. A little moisture
leads to shorts.

August




On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 7:23 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>
> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
> then trip again.
>
> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
> really don't know what else to do at this point.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
>> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>
>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s
>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again.
>>> We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker
>>> was less than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My story.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters
>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
>>> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap,
>>> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
>>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely
>>> that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched
>>> out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers
>>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another
>>> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
>>> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible
>>> disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line
>>> fuses so at least I

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Ray]

Is it at all weather related?  Rain, or high humidity?  High 
temperatures?  Do you have any indication what time of day it trips off at?


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit 
breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.


As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker 
they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two 
weeks and then trip again.


I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system 
apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that 
I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive 
proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this point.


Jason


On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski 
<mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> wrote:


I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we
will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I
doubt I have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be
the combined breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit
breakers were tripping simultaneously with the combined output
breaker.

Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have
never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I
have seen many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried
early on that I would be replacing fuses constantly, but that has
not been an issue whatsoever.





*

*


On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com>> wrote:

Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size
and max string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it
tripped the string’s associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.

We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it
tripped again. We replaced and never had an issue going
forward. We suspect the breaker was less than perfect from the
start as we’ve add equally nice days since.

This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says
4,000 watts but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike.
I will be extra careful going forward on IQ7 string length
when going to the max published…

My story.

Scot

*From:* RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> *On Behalf
Of *Jason Szumlanski
*Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
    *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with
and Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9
microinverters each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.

What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit
breakers and the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed
load center have been tripping simultaneously. It has happened
about four times in the last 6 months. It was always the same
branch circuit breaker, so we kept investigating that string,
checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap, etc. Finally
we swapped out the BR220 breaker.

Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a
different branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped
simultaneously. We checked that branch circuit and could not
find any fault. It seems unlikely that two branch circuit
breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched out the
CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.

I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my
fingers crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any
suggestions on another diagnostic step? These intermittent
problems are a major hassle. One thought I had was to switch
to a supply side interconnection with a fusible disconnect.
Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line
fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the
fault is on if there is in fact a fault.

I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with
Enphase systems in the past. Neither of them were systems I
installed. One turned out to be branch circuits that were not
properly paired up and landed on different breakers. Another
time we had an inverter with an internal fault which
eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke
billowing out of it. That happened after resetting a trip
breaker multiple times. This case seems to be unrelated to
those issues. I&#x

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit breaker
tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.

As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
then trip again.

I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I
really don't know what else to do at this point.

Jason


On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
> I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>
> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:
>
>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s
>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>
>>
>>
>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We
>> replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was
>> less than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.
>>
>>
>>
>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts
>> but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…
>>
>>
>>
>> My story.
>>
>>
>>
>> Scot
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters
>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>
>>
>>
>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
>> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap,
>> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>>
>>
>>
>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely
>> that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched
>> out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers
>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another
>> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
>> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible
>> disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line
>> fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if
>> there is in fact a fault.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems
>> in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be
>> branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different
>> breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault which
>> eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing out of
>> it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This case
>> seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>>
>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker.
I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
simultaneously with the combined output breaker.

Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.






On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:

> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s
> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>
>
>
> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We
> replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was
> less than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.
>
>
>
> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but
> in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful going
> forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…
>
>
>
> My story.
>
>
>
> Scot
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>
>
>
> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase
> IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each
> coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>
>
>
> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap,
> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>
>
>
> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely
> that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched
> out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.
>
>
>
> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers
> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another
> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible
> disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line
> fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if
> there is in fact a fault.
>
>
>
> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems
> in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be
> branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different
> breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault which
> eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing out of
> it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This case
> seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.
>
>
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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> Check out or u

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Chad Waits]

Trial and error only unfortunately.

Chad Waits
President-Net Zero Solar
Cell: (520) 270-4873



On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 8:14 AM Jay  wrote:

> Hi Chad
>
> Was the enphase monitoring able to locate the bad inverter? Or trial and
> error?
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz power.
>
> On May 21, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Chad Waits 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Yeah. We've had them trip in the evening as well. Just never come back
> online when the sun comes up. We've replaced breakers and meggered all
> wires. The only solution we've found is isolating that one bad inverter and
> replacing it.
>
> really frustrating.
>
> Chad Waits
> President-Net Zero Solar
> Cell: (520) 270-4873
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:15 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing I don't have a bad inverter problem since this is occurring
>> on two different strings. But I guess I can't rule it out.
>>
>> I should also have mentioned that the breakers apparently trip in the
>> middle of the night more often than not. I know that because the envoy goes
>> offline. So this does not seem to be a power production issue. The
>> inverters should be sleeping at the time that the breakers trip.
>>
>> I also ruled out rain. The first couple of times I suspected something
>> got wet, but subsequent tripping occurred during dry spells.
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020, 10:12 AM Chad Waits 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Jason,
>>>
>>> We have experienced this on multiple systems over the past 2 years. We
>>> have one system where 1 inverter pops an entire sub offline that has 72
>>> other inverters in it (screenshots attached). The only way we have been
>>> able to isolate the problem inverter(s) is to start first with isolating
>>> circuits, and then unplugging individual inverters until the culprit is
>>> found. We've had multiple cases escalated to top engineers and we have yet
>>> to get an explanation of what is going on. Obviously something in the bad
>>> inverter(s) is creating a catastrophic short but what is causing that has
>>> not been revealed to us.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd appreciate anything you may find out in your investigations.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Chad Waits
>>> President-Net Zero Solar
>>> Cell: (520) 270-4873
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 6:57 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>
 I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and
 Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters
 each coming into an Enphase AC combiner.

 What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
 the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
 tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
 months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
 investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap,
 etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.

 Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
 branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
 checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely
 that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched
 out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.

 I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers
 crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another
 diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
 thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible
 disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line
 fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if
 there is in fact a fault.

 I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase
 systems in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned
 out to be branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on
 different breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault
 which eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing out
 of it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This
 case seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.

 Jason Szumlanski
 Florida Solar Design Group


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[scot.arey]

Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max string 
length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s associated 
breaker in the Enphase combiner.

 

We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We 
replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was less 
than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.

 

This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but in 
reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful going 
forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…

 

My story.

 

Scot

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

 

I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase IQ 
system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each coming into 
an Enphase AC combiner. 

 

What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and the 
combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been tripping 
simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 months. It was 
always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept investigating that string, 
checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap, etc. Finally we swapped out 
the BR220 breaker. 

 

Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different branch 
circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We checked that 
branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely that two branch 
circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched out the CH240 main 
breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.  

 

I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers crossed. If 
that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another diagnostic step? 
These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One thought I had was to switch 
to a supply side interconnection with a fusible disconnect. Maybe the 
intermittent fault would blow one of the two line fuses so at least I could 
narrow it down to which line the fault is on if there is in fact a fault.

 

I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems in 
the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be branch 
circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different breakers. 
Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault which eventually"blew 
up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing out of it. That happened 
after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This case seems to be unrelated 
to those issues. I'm perplexed. 

 

Jason Szumlanski

Florida Solar Design Group

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jay]

Hi Chad 

Was the enphase monitoring able to locate the bad inverter? Or trial and error?

Jay

Peltz power. 

> On May 21, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Chad Waits  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yeah. We've had them trip in the evening as well. Just never come back online 
> when the sun comes up. We've replaced breakers and meggered all wires. The 
> only solution we've found is isolating that one bad inverter and replacing it.
> 
> really frustrating.
> 
> Chad Waits
> President-Net Zero Solar
> Cell: (520) 270-4873
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:15 AM Jason Szumlanski 
>>  wrote:
>> I'm guessing I don't have a bad inverter problem since this is occurring on 
>> two different strings. But I guess I can't rule it out.
>> 
>> I should also have mentioned that the breakers apparently trip in the middle 
>> of the night more often than not. I know that because the envoy goes 
>> offline. So this does not seem to be a power production issue. The inverters 
>> should be sleeping at the time that the breakers trip.
>> 
>> I also ruled out rain. The first couple of times I suspected something got 
>> wet, but subsequent tripping occurred during dry spells.
>> 
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020, 10:12 AM Chad Waits  
>>> wrote:
>>> Hey Jason,
>>> 
>>> We have experienced this on multiple systems over the past 2 years. We have 
>>> one system where 1 inverter pops an entire sub offline that has 72 other 
>>> inverters in it (screenshots attached). The only way we have been able to 
>>> isolate the problem inverter(s) is to start first with isolating circuits, 
>>> and then unplugging individual inverters until the culprit is found. We've 
>>> had multiple cases escalated to top engineers and we have yet to get an 
>>> explanation of what is going on. Obviously something in the bad inverter(s) 
>>> is creating a catastrophic short but what is causing that has not been 
>>> revealed to us.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'd appreciate anything you may find out in your investigations.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Chad Waits
>>> President-Net Zero Solar
>>> Cell: (520) 270-4873
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 6:57 AM Jason Szumlanski 
  wrote:
 I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase 
 IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each 
 coming into an Enphase AC combiner. 
 
 What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and 
 the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been 
 tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 
 months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept 
 investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and 
 cap, etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker. 
 
 Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different 
 branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We 
 checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems 
 unlikely that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now 
 switched out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.  
 
 I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers 
 crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another 
 diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One 
 thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a 
 fusible disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two 
 line fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is 
 on if there is in fact a fault.
 
 I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems 
 in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to 
 be branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on 
 different breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault 
 which eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing 
 out of it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. 
 This case seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed. 
 
 Jason Szumlanski
 Florida Solar Design Group
 
 
 ___
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>>> 
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wre

[RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Jason Szumlanski]

I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase
IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each
coming into an Enphase AC combiner.

What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and the
combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been tripping
simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 months. It
was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept investigating that
string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap, etc. Finally we
swapped out the BR220 breaker.

Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different branch
circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We checked
that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely that
two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched out
the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.

I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers crossed.
If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another
diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible
disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line
fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if
there is in fact a fault.

I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems
in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be
branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different
breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault which
eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing out of
it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This case
seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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