Re: [sage-devel] SuiteSparse and sage and sparse_matrix.LU()

[Thierry Dumont]

Le 05/02/2024 à 11:30, Dima Pasechnik a écrit :





A good implementation of LU decomposition ought actually to take non-square 
matrix as input, and have the indices adjusted appropriately in the algorithm,
so it's indeed a bit strange that superLU only takes square matrices (?). 
Perhaps it's a good idea to look at its docs and the source code.





Actually, SuperLU whas developed for people (like me) who solve 
discretized Partial Differential Equations. In that case, matrices are 
quite always square matrices. It is an old program. The idea whas that 
given the fact that new non zero terms appear during the 
LU-factorization, but  that we can predict where they appear and 
minimize the amount of these news terms, there exists a class of rather 
large problems (but not too large! -say less than 10^6 unknowns-) for 
which a direct method, efficiently coded,  could be faster than an 
iterative one (and this is true).


t.d.


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Re: [sage-devel] Poll: deprecate backslash operator

[Thierry Dumont]

Le 08/10/2023 à 18:24, Emmanuel Charpentier a écrit :
BTW :the changes and  advances made in Sage since the last edition of 
this book may warrant a revision, possibly a new edition. If only for 
the installation procedures (Conda installation, WSL on Windows, Github 
replacing Trac, etc...) and the interfaces (Jupyter replacing the Sage 
notebook, emacs as an alternative to command line, etc...).


Yes, for sure... It would be great. We just need manpower, time, and so 
on :-)



Le mercredi 4 octobre 2023 à 23:43:38 UTC+2, Nils Bruin a écrit :

On Wednesday, 4 October 2023 at 10:41:36 UTC-7 Thierry Dumont wrote:

In "Computational Mathematics with SageMath" we have some
backslash...


Indeed, I found on page 43 the example:

sage: 123 + \
: 345
468

which does not work presently. The first mention of "\" as an
operator is on page 162, where it's given as a shorthand for
solve_right in a table (with "/" as a shorthand of solve_left)
It also occurs on p168 (sect. 8.2.2) [twice] , p281, p283 (with
explanation), p302 (in a summary table). Even in the sections where
it is used, `\` is used much more often as a line continuation .

As far as the book is concerned, I think certainly fixing "\" to
work as line continuation is definitely more important for its
correctness, since that's used in much more places in the book (and
also in all the chapters where `\` is used as an operator). In all
the places except the summary table on p302, I saw the alternative
solve_right spelling explicitly mentioned. So impact of deprecating
the notation is rather limited. You could just add it to an
errata/updates list.

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Re: [sage-devel] Poll: deprecate backslash operator

[Thierry Dumont]

In "Computational Mathematics with SageMath" we have some backslash...

So, if we deprecate it, we will have problems with the doctests 
asociated,... and with the book.


I don't like the backslash for solving linear systems, but even Julia 
has adopted it, probably for Matlab users...


t.d.

Le 01/10/2023 à 05:17, Nils Bruin a écrit :

Deprecate please.

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[sage-devel] Python PEP 703: no more Interpreter lock

[Thierry Dumont]

With PEP 703, Cpython will move (slowly) to a non GIL implementation, 
allowing true multi-threading. It will take time (-> 3.15) and will be 
optional at the beginning. See:

 https://peps.python.org/pep-0703/
Which consequences for the Python part of Sage ? Are there many parts 
which could be multi-threaded ?


t.d.

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[sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] Sage 10.0.rc2 released

[Thierry]

Hi,

https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/35571 is trivial to review, and
will prevent Sage to ship a dangerous version of the openssl standard
package to the users for the next release.

Some of the "High severity" vulnerabilities can be exploited on the
clients by malicious servers. There is no need to be malicious to run a
malicious server: some of the several friendly servers that provide
mathematical databases that Sage connects to might be poorly secured
(e.g. some are running Python2 software on a distro that still activates
TLS 1.0 and TLS 1.1).

Ciao,
Thierry




Le Sun, May 07, 2023 at 05:02:30AM -0700, Volker Braun a écrit :
> As always, you can get the latest beta version from the "develop" git 
> branch. Alternatively, the self-contained source tarball is at 
> http://www.sagemath.org/download-latest.html
> 
> 
> 8aa721379a5 (tag: 10.0.rc2, github/develop) Updated SageMath version to 
> 10.0.rc2
> c1aea0aa2bc gh-35552: fix the linter once more
> bbf5695a71a gh-35594: Remove some circular imports in `sage.rings`, 
> `sage.symbolic`
> 21529544e7d gh-3: update eclib to version 20230424
> 686e1c6d0be gh-35524: Accept system openblas 0.3.23 and newer (needed for 
> archlinux)
> 5bd81deae14 (tag: 10.0.rc1) Updated SageMath version to 10.0.rc1
> 
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[sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] Sage 10.0.rc0 released

[Thierry]

Hi,

Le Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 10:43:35AM +0100, Dima Pasechnik a écrit :
> Thanks, it's now https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/35571

Could this straightforward ticket be set to blocker and reviewed for the
next official release ?

Ciao,
Thierry


> 
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 10:32 AM Thierry
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Sage's current openssl version (3.0.5) hass several "High severity"
> > vulnerabilities, see https://www.openssl.org/news/vulnerabilities.html
> >
> > It would be nice to have the fixes included in the next Sage release. I am 
> > not
> > using github, here is a pull request (literally) to fix this :
> >
> >   git pull https://lipn.univ-paris13.fr/~monteil/hebergement/sage/sage.git 
> > openssl.3.0.8
> >
> > (commit hash : 997a6bd35a17f5511bb12552bd676597b09f1eaf)
> > I checked the hash of the tarballs against the GPG signatures by upstream 
> > developers.
> >
> > Tarball at : https://www.openssl.org/source/openssl-3.0.8.tar.gz
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Thierry
> >
> > P.S. Note that 3.1.0. has been very recently released, however 3.0.x is LTS 
> > and will
> > not have structural changes. Just in case, here is a verified branch :
> >
> >   git pull https://lipn.univ-paris13.fr/~monteil/hebergement/sage/sage.git 
> > openssl.3.1.0
> >
> > (commit hash : 9229a2be66dc0e4f2e3f677aa515a33bfe72a873)
> > Tarball at : https://www.openssl.org/source/openssl-3.1.0.tar.gz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Le Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 07:46:00AM -0700, Volker Braun a écrit :
> > > As always, you can get the latest beta version from the "develop" git
> > > branch. Alternatively, the self-contained source tarball is at
> > > http://www.sagemath.org/download-latest.html
> > >
> > >
> > > f3acd42678a (tag: 10.0.rc0, github/develop) Updated SageMath version to
> > > 10.0.rc0
> > > eca2a773d08 gh-35543: Cleaning set partition
> > > 9d8c9c05117 gh-35542: some fixes for cython-lint in various places
> > > e1e119463ae gh-35534: some cython-lint fixes in matroids/
> > > 133a345bacb gh-35533: Fix bug in graph.maximum_average_degree
> > > 3c2ba826156 gh-35530: some minor details in interfaces
> > > 12cea800735 gh-35526: fix pycodestyle E271 and E502 in pyx files
> > > a03f09cf594 gh-35525: cython-lint and some doc cleanup for expression.pyx
> > > e9b67cc117a gh-35521: `sage.combinat.sf`: re-enable a doctest
> > > cc0ea4d66f4 gh-35518: Improve PolynomialSequence.connected_components()
> > > a38a25a261e gh-35515: Bug in integer valued polys
> > > 803c7aacaee gh-35514: Don't force ecl lisp with `maxima -l ecl` on command
> > > line.
> > > 20d2edd1736 gh-35513: Silence initialization of giac
> > > 64c205c7d51 gh-35512: Improve PolynomialSequence.connection_graph()
> > > implementation
> > > db2fa5d13b1 gh-35511: Fix Graph.add_clique() for one vertex
> > > 0ff23f67772 gh-35510: Make BooleanPolynomial.variables() way faster
> > > e3636bd579c gh-35509: some cython-linting in matrix/ folder
> > > 2c7e16e5faf gh-35507: fix pycodestyle E303 in schemes
> > > 98595ef8661 gh-35506: add check for pycodestyle E502 in python files
> > > 80f3fd99d04 gh-35504: `build/pkgs/sphinx_{copybutton,basic_ng}`: Add conda
> > > info
> > > 41c256ae647 gh-35499: Fix test output for ipywidgets 8.0.5, part deux
> > > 3740e145432 gh-35478: Remove unused code from GAP interface
> > > b25229b6647 gh-35476: scipy: Patch out test requiring internet access
> > > eafd5215a28 gh-35472: Implement the Feichtner-Yuzvinsky rings for lattices
> > > 957e627f023 gh-35465: Fix conda workflow
> > > 1fc3fee5bed gh-35463: Add iterator over minimum distance k dominating sets
> > > ecd162be3dc gh-35462: Iterator over the minimal distance k dominating sets
> > > c18a3fbfe72 gh-35446: add method is_simple to permutations
> > > ef68bee7ccf gh-35443: Fix slow doctests or mark # long time
> > > c005c006d4e gh-35431: Documentation improvements for rounding methods
> > > 15a5078afaa gh-35389: `sage.rings.finite_rings.residue_field`:
> > > Modularization fixes
> > > 9ff469adb9c gh-35375: Fix minimal kernel basis corner cases
> > > 55ebb79b65a gh-35306: `sage.groups.matrix_gps`: Modularization fixes for
> > > imports
> > > 8bcce63b6a1 gh-35305: `sage.quadratic_forms`: Modularization fixes for
> > > imports
> > > 97b45d80a7c (tag: 10.0.beta9) Updated SageMath version to 10.0.beta9
> > >
> > > --
> > > You recei

[sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] Sage 10.0.rc0 released

[Thierry]

Hi,

Sage's current openssl version (3.0.5) hass several "High severity"
vulnerabilities, see https://www.openssl.org/news/vulnerabilities.html

It would be nice to have the fixes included in the next Sage release. I am not
using github, here is a pull request (literally) to fix this :

  git pull https://lipn.univ-paris13.fr/~monteil/hebergement/sage/sage.git 
openssl.3.0.8

(commit hash : 997a6bd35a17f5511bb12552bd676597b09f1eaf)
I checked the hash of the tarballs against the GPG signatures by upstream 
developers.

Tarball at : https://www.openssl.org/source/openssl-3.0.8.tar.gz

Ciao,
Thierry

P.S. Note that 3.1.0. has been very recently released, however 3.0.x is LTS and 
will
not have structural changes. Just in case, here is a verified branch :

  git pull https://lipn.univ-paris13.fr/~monteil/hebergement/sage/sage.git 
openssl.3.1.0

(commit hash : 9229a2be66dc0e4f2e3f677aa515a33bfe72a873)
Tarball at : https://www.openssl.org/source/openssl-3.1.0.tar.gz




Le Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 07:46:00AM -0700, Volker Braun a écrit :
> As always, you can get the latest beta version from the "develop" git 
> branch. Alternatively, the self-contained source tarball is at 
> http://www.sagemath.org/download-latest.html
> 
> 
> f3acd42678a (tag: 10.0.rc0, github/develop) Updated SageMath version to 
> 10.0.rc0
> eca2a773d08 gh-35543: Cleaning set partition
> 9d8c9c05117 gh-35542: some fixes for cython-lint in various places
> e1e119463ae gh-35534: some cython-lint fixes in matroids/
> 133a345bacb gh-35533: Fix bug in graph.maximum_average_degree
> 3c2ba826156 gh-35530: some minor details in interfaces
> 12cea800735 gh-35526: fix pycodestyle E271 and E502 in pyx files
> a03f09cf594 gh-35525: cython-lint and some doc cleanup for expression.pyx
> e9b67cc117a gh-35521: `sage.combinat.sf`: re-enable a doctest
> cc0ea4d66f4 gh-35518: Improve PolynomialSequence.connected_components()
> a38a25a261e gh-35515: Bug in integer valued polys
> 803c7aacaee gh-35514: Don't force ecl lisp with `maxima -l ecl` on command 
> line.
> 20d2edd1736 gh-35513: Silence initialization of giac
> 64c205c7d51 gh-35512: Improve PolynomialSequence.connection_graph() 
> implementation
> db2fa5d13b1 gh-35511: Fix Graph.add_clique() for one vertex
> 0ff23f67772 gh-35510: Make BooleanPolynomial.variables() way faster
> e3636bd579c gh-35509: some cython-linting in matrix/ folder
> 2c7e16e5faf gh-35507: fix pycodestyle E303 in schemes
> 98595ef8661 gh-35506: add check for pycodestyle E502 in python files
> 80f3fd99d04 gh-35504: `build/pkgs/sphinx_{copybutton,basic_ng}`: Add conda 
> info
> 41c256ae647 gh-35499: Fix test output for ipywidgets 8.0.5, part deux
> 3740e145432 gh-35478: Remove unused code from GAP interface
> b25229b6647 gh-35476: scipy: Patch out test requiring internet access
> eafd5215a28 gh-35472: Implement the Feichtner-Yuzvinsky rings for lattices
> 957e627f023 gh-35465: Fix conda workflow
> 1fc3fee5bed gh-35463: Add iterator over minimum distance k dominating sets
> ecd162be3dc gh-35462: Iterator over the minimal distance k dominating sets
> c18a3fbfe72 gh-35446: add method is_simple to permutations
> ef68bee7ccf gh-35443: Fix slow doctests or mark # long time
> c005c006d4e gh-35431: Documentation improvements for rounding methods
> 15a5078afaa gh-35389: `sage.rings.finite_rings.residue_field`: 
> Modularization fixes
> 9ff469adb9c gh-35375: Fix minimal kernel basis corner cases
> 55ebb79b65a gh-35306: `sage.groups.matrix_gps`: Modularization fixes for 
> imports
> 8bcce63b6a1 gh-35305: `sage.quadratic_forms`: Modularization fixes for 
> imports
> 97b45d80a7c (tag: 10.0.beta9) Updated SageMath version to 10.0.beta9
> 
> -- 
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[sage-devel] Democratic issue: rushing decisions

[Thierry]

Hi,

several developers asked for delays, to respect people with a busy
schedule, to allow a constructive debate, to explore all possibilities,
to move away from the noise and confusion related to a minor event
[1,2,3,4,5,6].

Democracy is not a race, i wish such a simple and reasonable request to
be respected.

Ciao,
Thierry

[1] John : "I don't see a reason to rush a vote"
https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/q5V9ov5FAAAJ

[2] Jan : "I don't think the move is so urgent though"
https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/0Lk5pzdjBwAJ

[3] Vincent : "For me the discussion in this thread is very premature"
https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/ZTXx_speBwAJ

[4] Sébastien : "The urgency of short term issues does not imply the 
urgency of long term issues"
https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/B19uBWUJCAAJ

[5] Travis : "First off, we need to slow down significantly as we do not 
have an general clear consensus about doing this move."
https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/E3_sU2Y6CAAJ

[6] Thierry : "one month break is a bare minimum."
https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/STo_AT9qFgAJ

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: incremental migration to github? [prompted by FUNDING issues!!!] + general flakiness of trac

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 01:30:05AM -0400, David Roe wrote:
> While I strongly support the shift to github, I also agree with Travis that
> we should vote on a change this major, and give the community enough time
> to weigh in.  I would also encourage people on both sides of the debate to
> give everyone the benefit of the doubt.  To those who have been putting in
> a ton of work attempting to fix trac in recent weeks, our broken
> infrastructure is both frustrating and gives a sense of urgency.  To those
> who have spent over a decade using trac, the most recent iteration of this
> discussion (starting four days ago) feels very rushed.
> 
> Here's a proposal on a timeline for making a decision (I welcome feedback
> from anyone who thinks this is too fast or too slow).
> 
> * We spend another few days discussing pros and cons and refining the
> proposed workflows.


The academic year is starting (at least in France), people are already
very busy with all sort of administrative things. I personally have to
attend a conference next week and my PhD student is going to defend in
the beginning of October.

Also, several people have already explicitely requested for a break (if
not a truce, given the level of agressivity).

I would like to contribute to the important question of the evolution of
our development tools, but given the conditions and how they affect my
mental health, as for me, one month break is a bare minimum. Blitzkrieg,
state of emergency, false dilemma, and policy of fait accompli can not
be part of a healthy decision-making.

Ciao,
Thierry





> * I'll volunteer to collate the arguments that have been made into a list
> of pros and cons together with a concrete proposal, and we can send out an
> email in a separate thread announcing a vote later this week.
> * The deadline for voting will be one week from the announcement (so, late
> next week).
> * If the consensus of the community is to switch to github, then a smaller
> group can proceed with implementation (I'm also willing to be involved in
> that effort).
> David
> 
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 1:13 AM 'Travis Scrimshaw' via sage-devel <
> sage-devel@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >> But people nowadays who start with GitHub never have to go through
> >>>> archaic setup steps such as those that we document at
> >>>> https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/developer/trac.html#trac-authentication-through-ssh,
> >>>> which --- even when it is working --- is major friction for the project.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I think it has been just far too long since you uploaded your ssh key to
> >>> GH. The server cannot magically know your ssh public key.
> >>>
> >>
> >> You are missing that the new contributors will already have set up their
> >> GitHub for virtual everything else that they work on. There is no
> >> additional such cost for starting to work on a new project that's also
> >> hosted on GitHub.
> >> This is a just tiny bit of the big network effects that will come.
> >>
> >
> > This is true, they do have to do it for our separate project. However,
> > your characterization that the current setup is archaic is false unless you
> > want to call what GH does archaic too. I also don't agree that it is a
> > major friction point; all of my experience/feedback has been people have
> > the most trouble getting user names to access trac and dealing with our
> > coding/doc standards.
> >
> > --
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> > .
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: incremental migration to github? [prompted by FUNDING issues!!!] + general flakiness of trac

[Thierry]

On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 04:07:48PM +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
[...]
> 
> Several people promised to look for academic hosting for trac. Nothing
> came out of it.

Please do not rewrite history, as it adds violence to violence. There
have indeed been offers for academic hosting, the VM were ready, but the
cloud hosting was enforced, and you was promoting this.

Ciao,
Thierry

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: incremental migration to github? [prompted by FUNDING issues!!!] + general flakiness of trac

[Thierry]

Hi,

"[prompted by FUNDING issues!!!]" ???

Back in 2016, when cloud hosting was imposed over academic hosting,
William promised "to pay for it indefinitely", see
https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ed_ya-d-k_E/m/jYoR6opODAAJ

If only for this reason, there is no funding issue.

The fact is that the the magic cloud ideology turned into a disaster,
years after years, from askbot in 2014 (thanks again to Niles and OSU
sysadmins for their involvement in its academic hosting during six
years !), to the wiki a few months ago, and now trac+git.

I have been involved in rescuing those services, and putting them back
in a safe place. What do the facts tell us about academic hosting, in
2022 ?

- askbot is academically hosted and works pretty well.
  Fees to the Sage community: 0$ per year

- patchbot server is academically hosted and works pretty well.
  Fees to the Sage community: 0$ per year

- I bet that most patchbot clients are run from academic desktops.
  Fees to the Sage community: 0$ per year

- wiki is academically hosted and works pretty well.
  Fees to the Sage community: 0$ per year

- the backup server (which currently backs up askbot and wiki) is 
  academically hosted and works pretty well.
  Fees to the Sage community: 0$ per year

- most download mirrors are academically hosted and work pretty well.
  Fees to the Sage community: 0$ per year

For this reason also, and given the number of universities around the
world, there is no funding issue. The rest is FUD.

Ciao,
Thierry



On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 02:54:06AM -0700, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> I am resurrecting this thread, as in addition of trac continuing to eat up 
> funds (at a rate of over US$ 10 per day at the moment), it has gotten 
> increasingly broken. In particular, in the last 2 weeks no new developers 
> can really join the project, as there is no normal* way to add new ssh keys 
> into trac accounts, and it's not possible to push/pull with "new" github 
> ssh keys, i.e. keys that were not already "known" to trac, i.e. added to 
> the trac store of ssh keys before the last breakage happened.
> 
> As far as funding is concerned, attempts to bring trac to a "free" hosting 
> stalled (see earlier messages in this thread).
> 
> A further longer term issue is that trac software is basically on life 
> support, and it's only matter of time it will become totally obsolete. 
> 
> Such a move will allow a considerable simplification of our devops, and 
> free up quite a bit of developer time
> to do interesting work rather than messing around with semi-obsolete stuff 
> such as trac, gitolite, etc. 
> 
> Importantly, Volker, the release manager, is willing to proceed with the 
> move.
> 
> Also, various Sage upstream (and downstream) projects have moved away from 
> trac to github, e.g. Cython, or away from another system to github, e.g. 
> CPython, GAP, jupyter, etc...
> 
> There is a trac ticket to manage the proposed move, 
> https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30363 tentatively set for Sage 9.8.
> 
> I've conducted few experiments with a tool to import trac sites to 
> github: https://github.com/svigerske/trac-to-github, which in particular 
> allows to import trac tickets as github issues; a result of running it on 
> few tickets
> may be inspected 
> here: https://github.com/dimpase/trac_to_gh/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aclosed
> (Here issues 1-10 correspond to trac tickets one to one :-))
> Further work on trac-to-github will be needed, in particular to properly 
> link branches in our git tree, but it's doable,
> and we have volunteers to do it.
> 
> We'd like to hear about serious objections to the move, if any.  
> 
> 
> 
> *) normal - i.e. using trac interface; we (probably) still have a way to 
> modify the repository of ssh keys used by trac manually.
> 
> On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 10:53:54 AM UTC Frédéric Chapoton wrote:
> 
> > Erik, did you stop the Orsay runners for gitlab ? It seems that the docker 
> > build there for 9.3.b9 is stuck by lack of runners.
> >
> > https://gitlab.com/sagemath/sage/-/pipelines
> >
> > Frédéric
> >
> > Le jeudi 11 mars 2021 à 13:25:52 UTC+1, erik@gmail.com a écrit :
> >
> >> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 1:20 PM E. Madison Bray  
> >> wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> > On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:52 PM Dima Pasechnik  
> >> wrote: 
> >> > > 
> >> > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:11 AM Dima Pasechnik  
> >> wrote: 
> >> > > > 
> >> > > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 4:00 PM E. Madison Bray  
> >> wrote: 
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 11:33 PM tobia...@gmx.de  
> 

Re: [sagemath-admins] Fwd: [sage-devel] Re: incremental migration to github? [prompted by FUNDING issues!!!] + general flakiness of trac

[Thierry]

Hi,

let me forward the email of Frédéric as a whole, so that the thread remains
complete.

- Forwarded message from Frédéric Chapoton  -

Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 12:15:25 +0200
From: Frédéric Chapoton
To: sagemath-adm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [sagemath-admins] Fwd: [sage-devel] Re: incremental migration
to github? [prompted by FUNDING issues!!!] + general flakiness of trac

Dear sage developers and maintainers,

Whereas I agree that we currently have two issues, I do not agree on the
necessity to switch to github and certainly not urgently.

* The first issue is the cost of google compute engine. This is under
investigation and can be lowered by creating a new project. This should be
do-able and could save us 3 $ per day.
* The second issue is about new users entering new ssh keys. There is hope
to fix that and in the mean-time one could ask new users to send sshkeys to
some of us.

My own preference would be to go on using trac, for some years, as this is
serving us quite well. We should not change this for superficial and
temporary reasons.

The serious reasons that I see are : money and the futre of the trac
software itself.

In my opinion, money is the only serious issue, and I would like to see
trac heberged by some university. There are already several services in
France, so another country would be better. Germany ? Somebody must step
forward.

About the trac software, it now has a python3-compatible version, available
on most linux distributions. We should aim to use that. Once done, the
situation will be stable.

As a side matter, it seems to me that gitlab is much more in the spirit of
open source software. We should rather not bow under the power of large
private companies.

Frédéric

-



On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 12:15:13PM +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 11:15 AM Frédéric Chapoton  
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear sage developers and maintainers,
> >
> > Whereas I agree that we currently have two issues, I do not agree on the 
> > necessity to switch to github and certainly not urgently.
> 
> it is a disaster that new people can't come aboard easily. It really is 
> urgent.
> A convoluted system to get new developers onboard and contributing is
> a very bad omen for open-source projects, it really is.
> 
> E.g. try to contribute to something like OpenBSD - I'd sure most
> potentail contributors  run away screaming,
> upon learning that they must use CVS and e-mail patches around for approval.
> 
> >
> > * The first issue is the cost of google compute engine. This is under 
> > investigation and can be lowered by creating a new project. This should be 
> > do-able and could save us 3 $ per day.
> 
> but this is far from free, still, and hosting prices are to go with
> the energy prices, up and up.
> It's really spending money on a questionable luxury, instead of
> something useful.
> 
> > * The second issue is about new users entering new ssh keys. There is hope 
> > to fix that and in the mean-time one could ask new users to send sshkeys to 
> > some of us.
> >
> > My own preference would be to go on using trac, for some years, as this is 
> > serving us quite well. We should not change this for superficial and 
> > temporary reasons.
> 
> the reasons are not supreficial, in particular, trac+gitolite software
> is obsolete.
> I cannot imagine a new project that would choose it as a platform.
> 
> >
> > The serious reasons that I see are : money and the futre of the trac 
> > software itself.
> >
> > In my opinion, money is the only serious issue, and I would like to see 
> > trac heberged by some university. There are already several services in 
> > France, so another country would be better. Germany ? Somebody must step 
> > forward.
> >
> > About the trac software, it now has a python3-compatible version, available 
> > on most linux distributions. We should aim to use that. Once done, the 
> > situation will be stable.
> 
> Why do you think so? The bus factors of trac and gitolite software are
> very, very small.
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor)
> As well as the bus factor for our trac instance.
> 
> >
> > As a side matter, it seems to me that gitlab is much more in the spirit of 
> > open source software. We should rather not bow under the power of large 
> > private companies.
> Let's not get into this argument. I don't see how paying Google's
> adware criminals US$4000 per year is more ethical than moving over to
> GitHub (which, by the way, gives us a bit of money,
> via GitHub sponsors system :-)).
> Besides, moving from GitHub to GitLab is rather easy, compared to move
> from trac to Git**b.
> 
> Dima
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Frédéric
> >
> >
> > Le ven. 9 sept. 2022 à 11:55, Dima Pasechnik  a écrit :
> >>
> >> -- Forwarded message -
> >> From: Dima Pasechnik 
> >> Date: Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 10:54 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [sage-devel] Re: incremental migration to github?
> >> [prompted by FUNDING issues!!!] + general flakiness of trac

[sage-devel] source and build artifacts mixed ?

[Thierry]

Hi,

i recently found that the src/sage directory was cluttered with some .c
and some .so files, and that the build artifacts were back in the src/
directory. What is the rationale behind this move ?

Ciao,
Thierry

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: MSC-2020 -- Class 52: Convex and Discrete Geometry -- CAS Citations from 2000 to 2021

[Thierry]

Hi,

let me take the opportunity to promote the use of the get_systems
function from sage.misc.citation which allows to see and acknowledge
which upstream packages were used by Sage for some computation, e.g.

sage: from sage.misc.citation import get_systems
sage: R. = PolynomialRing(QQ)
sage: I = R.ideal([R.random_element(), R.random_element()])
sage: get_systems('I.groebner_basis()')
['Singular']

Ciao,
Thierry


On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 03:13:11AM -0700, 'Travis Scrimshaw' via sage-devel 
wrote:
> Indeed, it is not only great to see that Sage is increasing in the number 
> of citations* but also the total number of papers citing mathematics 
> software.
> 
> Best,
> Travis
> 
> * In algebraic combinatorics, I sometimes notice that people give an 
> acknowledgement that they have used Sage to help with their paper without 
> actually citing Sage. This makes it harder for simple data mining tools to 
> pick up I think. I also know of some papers that have used Sage to 
> construct examples without even an acknowledgement... So there work to do 
> on making sure the broader math community does properly cite (or at least 
> acknowledge) the use of a CAS. (As I say this, I think I forgot to cite 
> Mathematica in one of my papers that one of my coauthors used somewhat 
> extensively...)
> 
> 
> On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 2:44:10 PM UTC+9 kcrisman wrote:
> 
> > I take this opportunity to thank the Sage community and the developers of 
> >> related softwares integrated for this Huge effort and to let you know of 
> >> the positive comments that I receive form the research community in 
> >> MSC-52. 
> >> THANK YOU SO MUCH!
> >>
> >> If you are interested in a deeper analysis, I produced detailed graphics 
> >> and provide the raw data in a Jupyter notebook on my webpage:
> >>
> >> https://jplab.github.io/sage_cite.html
> >
> >
> > Great post! 
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] boolean value of inequality

[Thierry]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 03:13:23PM +, Thierry wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 03:56:00PM +0200, Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
> > Am I doing something wrong? I would have expected the last line to return
> > False.
> > 
> > ┌┐
> > │ SageMath version 9.6, Release Date: 2022-05-15 │
> > │ Using Python 3.10.4. Type "help()" for help.   │
> > └┘
> > sage: hr=(x^2+2*x+1)
> > sage: hl=(x+1)^2
> > sage: bool(hl==hr)
> > True
> > sage: bool(hl!=hr)
> > True
> 
> This is definitely a bug. Note that 
> 
> sage: a = hl != hr
> sage: bool(a)
> True
> 
> but
> 
> sage: bool(a.expand())
> False
> 
> This is due to the fact that there is a call to is_trivial_zero instead
> of is_zero somewhere in the __bool__ method for symbolic expressions.
> 
> Let me open a ticket and push a branch.

It is https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/34341

Ciao,
Thierry

> 
> Ciao,
> Thierry
> 
> 
> > 
> > -- 
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Re: [sage-devel] boolean value of inequality

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 03:56:00PM +0200, Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
> Am I doing something wrong? I would have expected the last line to return
> False.
> 
> ┌┐
> │ SageMath version 9.6, Release Date: 2022-05-15 │
> │ Using Python 3.10.4. Type "help()" for help.   │
> └┘
> sage: hr=(x^2+2*x+1)
> sage: hl=(x+1)^2
> sage: bool(hl==hr)
> True
> sage: bool(hl!=hr)
> True

This is definitely a bug. Note that 

sage: a = hl != hr
sage: bool(a)
True

but

sage: bool(a.expand())
False

This is due to the fact that there is a call to is_trivial_zero instead
of is_zero somewhere in the __bool__ method for symbolic expressions.

Let me open a ticket and push a branch.

Ciao,
Thierry


> 
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[sage-devel] trailing sage-ipython processes in patchbots

[Thierry]

Hi,

while running a patchbot client, i see a lot of unfinished processes
whose command is "python3 /home/sagemath/sage/src/bin/sage-ipython -i"
at various dates, indicating that something is not killed properly. The
phenomenon is not new. Any hint on how to fix that ?

Ciao,
Thierry

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Re: [sage-devel] Trying to fix trac #18488(solve() ignores conjugate)

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 01:47:52PM -0700, Utkarsh Sharma wrote:
> I recently came across https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18488 and I wanted 
> to try fixing the issue. After going through past discussions and the 
> solve() method in src/sage/symbolic/relation(which, I believe, is the 
> solve() method being referred to here), I figured out that it uses maxima's 
> solve() method, so the bug must be in maxima's solve() method.
> 
> So how do I go about solving this issue? one obvious solution would be to 
> fix the maxima bug, but is there anything else that can be done?

The following procedure is common:

- reproduce the bug within maxima (you can get a maxima console with
  "sage -maxima" command)
- if the bug shows an issue in the interface between Sage and maxima,
  fix it within Sage (with a corresponding doctest)
- if the bug actually comes from maxima, then report the bug upstream
  https://sourceforge.net/p/maxima/bugs/
- once the bug is fixed, either wait for the new maxima version, or add
  the corresponding patch in SAGE_ROOT/build/pkgs/maxima/patches/ so
  that the bug is fixed in Sage (depending on the emergency)
- a common mistake at this point is to close the Sage ticket. Don't do
  that. Instead, add a doctest showing that the bug is fixed, so that we
  get informed if it reappears.

Ciao,
Thierry



> I think 
> first we could check whether the bug is being encountered or not, and if it 
> was encountered, We could provide an alternate solution, like solving for 
> the real and imaginary parts separately, or maybe solving for the conjugate 
> and then take the conjugate of both sides of the equation. Those are just 
> my initial thoughts, I thought it would be best to start a conversation 
> here before going any further.
> 
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] Re: Sage 9.5 released

[Thierry]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 11:32:03AM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 11:25:39 AM UTC-7 Thierry 
> (sage-googlesucks@xxx) wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 11:19:52AM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote: 
> > > Marc Culler's macOS binary packaging gets it right -- he just builds all 
> > > optional packages that happen to build without errors and includes them 
> > in 
> > > the binary package. It does not increase the overall size by much. 
> >
> > Why not shipping binaries with and without optional packages on the 
> > mirrors for all distros ?
> >
> 
> Let's not go back to providing binaries. Nobody took care of them for 
> years: They were being built routinely as part of Volker's scripts, but 
> nobody bothered to check that they actually work.

I lost interest in building tons of binaries because there was an
alternative, and i agree that anything we set up should be taken care
of. If setting up a new build infrastructure solves an actual issue,
then why not ?

Ciao,
Thierry



> 
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] Re: Sage 9.5 released

[Thierry]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 11:19:52AM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 10:26:59 AM UTC-7 Nils Bruin wrote:
> 
> > If we're going to allow for/promote packaging as an easy way to get access 
> > to sage, I think we need to reevaluate how we provide optional packages as 
> > well. Currently, our optional packages are basically *build time* optional 
> > (their inclusion or exclusion can lead to changes how other modules 
> > operate, for instance). That means in a packaged environment, they are 
> > optional *for the packager*, not for the user.
> >
> 
> The old idea of providing a binary and then offering optional packages via 
> compilation from source was fundamentally flawed. Setting up the build 
> environment is the hard part, and asking the users who opted for the binary 
> to do so is just inviting trouble.
> 
> Marc Culler's macOS binary packaging gets it right -- he just builds all 
> optional packages that happen to build without errors and includes them in 
> the binary package. It does not increase the overall size by much. 

Why not shipping binaries with and without optional packages on the
mirrors for all distros ?

Ciao,
Thierry



> In distribution packaging (debian, conda, ...), optional packages are just 
> ... packages, and no specific Sage infrastructure for that is needed. In 
> addition, we do already have a mechanism to advise users which distribution 
> package they need to install with their distribution's package manager. 
> See 
> https://wiki.sagemath.org/ReleaseTours/sage-9.2#System_package_information_for_optional_packages_at_runtime
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] Re: Sage 9.5 released

[Thierry]

Hi,

a few years ago, i used to build 16 binaries in a row at each release
for various Debian and Ubuntu versions and architectures. Then, i
stopped because Jan Groenwald dedicated some machines at AIMS to build
binaries. If necessary, i could try to setup such a builder for a bunch
of binaries for more distros.

The binaries worked pretty well on foreign machines, so what changed
since this period ?

Also, there used to be a SAGE_FAT_BINARY variable that was supposed to
ensure that the binary does not depend on the libraries provided by the
distro. Is it less efficient today ?

Ciao,
Thierry



On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 05:15:51AM -0700, kcrisman wrote:
> If we're moving away from providing binaries, then this is a good way to 
> go, well organized.  Below a few minor notes about the sagemath-tobias 
> link, I hope they are helpful.  My apologies in advance for any bike 
> shedding, though I tried to be pretty concrete.
> 
> 1. Is it possible to have a short bullet list for the three/four options
> * Linux
> * Mac
> * Windoze
> * Cloud
> that link to those, immediately below "Where would you like to run 
> SageMath?"?  I'm pretty sure Sphinx makes that possible.  Even a little bit 
> of needed scrolling leads to people just not caring.
> 
> 2. I'd also recommend Linux be last - this page is designed for people who 
> are not comfortable installing source software, I guess.  (Similarly, no 
> development as first option?)
> 
> e. Alternately, one could have the first decision point be "develop or not" 
> - that would be my preference, but obviously would be an annoying bit of 
> work with perhaps not that much marginal gain.  Still, that seems to be the 
> great divide in Sage, not so much platform, and would allow for people who 
> want to just use Sage in the cloud to see that option very early.  It's not 
> like people on (say) Windows don't also use the cloud, so the four-way 
> partition could be somewhat misleading to less careful readers (which many 
> internet users are when in a hurry) in practice, though of course not in 
> principle.
> 
> 3. Do the binaries/packaging allow for all optional packages and/or using 
> Cython/Fortran?  I recall this coming up not only on this list, but also 
> sometimes when I've tried to show people Cython usage as a "great feature" 
> of Sage that doesn't work in some environments.  If the answer to any of 
> these is not, you might need another part of the decision tree, or at least 
> a link to something about optional packages in each "no development" part.
> 
> 4. A link to some Windows doc on what WSL is would probably be pretty 
> helpful, since presumably a lot of Windows users who like doing math have 
> never heard of it.
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Trouble with SSH access

[Thierry]

Hi,

could you please retry ?

(i will send details on sagemath-admins)

Ciao,
Thierry



Le Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:24:53PM +, Thierry a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> i had a quick look at the trac/git box: when a SSH pubkey is added from
> the trac website, the /srv/git/repositories/gitolite-admin.git
> repository is updated accordingly, so it seems it is not an issue
> between trac and gitolite, the transfer seems to work well.
> 
> However, the file /srv/git/.ssh/authorized_keys is then touched (its
> timestamp changes), but its content is unmodified, which explains why
> you can not be authenticated. I have no idea why (nor which recent
> change in the config could have caused this "immutability"). I do not
> maintain this box, so I did not attempt any action to fix this.
> 
> Ciao,
> Thierry
> 
> 
> 
> Le Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 01:48:11PM -0700, Tristan Phillips a écrit :
> > Thank you Maxime. Attached is my debug log.
> > 
> > -Tristan
> > 
> > On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:29:37 AM UTC-7 maxime...@inria.fr wrote:
> > 
> > > On 4/8/22 22:08, Tristan Phillips wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I just wanted to mention that I seem to be having the same issues as 
> > > > Antoine. I tried both an RSA 2048 and a ed25519.  I also tested that 
> > > > these keys worked for SSH access on GitHub.
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > > Tristan
> > >
> > > Yes, it seems that the distribution of the SSH keys from trac accounts 
> > > to trac git server is not working anymore.
> > >
> > > Maybe someone having access to the server can see some debug logging ?
> > >
> > > In any case, I would be happy to help with that.
> > >
> > > best,
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Maxime
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > -- 
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Re: [sage-devel] Trouble with SSH access

[Thierry]

Hi,

i had a quick look at the trac/git box: when a SSH pubkey is added from
the trac website, the /srv/git/repositories/gitolite-admin.git
repository is updated accordingly, so it seems it is not an issue
between trac and gitolite, the transfer seems to work well.

However, the file /srv/git/.ssh/authorized_keys is then touched (its
timestamp changes), but its content is unmodified, which explains why
you can not be authenticated. I have no idea why (nor which recent
change in the config could have caused this "immutability"). I do not
maintain this box, so I did not attempt any action to fix this.

Ciao,
Thierry



Le Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 01:48:11PM -0700, Tristan Phillips a écrit :
> Thank you Maxime. Attached is my debug log.
> 
> -Tristan
> 
> On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 3:29:37 AM UTC-7 maxime...@inria.fr wrote:
> 
> > On 4/8/22 22:08, Tristan Phillips wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I just wanted to mention that I seem to be having the same issues as 
> > > Antoine. I tried both an RSA 2048 and a ed25519.  I also tested that 
> > > these keys worked for SSH access on GitHub.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Tristan
> >
> > Yes, it seems that the distribution of the SSH keys from trac accounts 
> > to trac git server is not working anymore.
> >
> > Maybe someone having access to the server can see some debug logging ?
> >
> > In any case, I would be happy to help with that.
> >
> > best,
> >
> > -- 
> > Maxime
> >
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Proposal: make Jupyterlab a standard package

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 10:51:06AM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On Tue, 2022-03-22 at 13:47 +0000, Thierry wrote:
> > 
> > "Standard" also means "be shipped within the source tarball" that is
> > self-contained and does not require network connexion to be installed.
> > 
> 
> True, but it would be just as easy to ship the tarballs for packages
> that are optional and enabled by default as it is to ship them for
> packages that are standard.

I just wanted to point that we still need a "standard vs optional"
distinction for this purpose.

Regarding make options, maybe it could be nice to ship all possible make
options (--enable-*, --disable-*) for every package, so that we can
override defaults easily ?

Ciao,
Thierry


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Re: [sage-devel] Proposal: make Jupyterlab a standard package

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 07:58:07AM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On Tue, 2022-03-22 at 03:44 -0700, Eric Gourgoulhon wrote:
> > 
> > Maybe it is time to make it a standard package in Sage. 
> > 
> 
> If so, please make it optional via a --disable-jupyterlab flag. (We
> already have one for the standard notebook, --disable-notebook.)
> 
> Hijack, sorry: with these flags starting to accumulate, now would be a
> good time to go back and make sense of our standard vs optional
> designation. In most packages, anything that has a --disable flag is
> de-facto optional, but the default (enabled or disabled) can be set
> per-package. In sage, we use "optional" to mean "optional and disabled
> by default." Historically "standard" has meant "not optional and
> therefore always enabled," but more and more these days it means
> "optional but enabled by default."

"Standard" also means "be shipped within the source tarball" that is
self-contained and does not require network connexion to be installed.

Ciao,
Thierry


> I think anything that can be disabled (such as jupyterlab) should be
> "optional," but that we should be able to mark optional packages as
> enabled by default. So the "optional" distinction would just mean "give
> it a ./configure flag." This would avoid the semantic confusion of
> "standard" packages that can be disabled via hand-written --disable
> flags.
> 
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: minimal requirements

[Thierry]

On Thu, Feb 03, 2022 at 04:05:05PM -0800, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> And https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/spkg/_prereq.html#spkg-prereq 
> has formatted versions of this information.

Thanks, this is the kind of lists i was looking for.

Ciao,
Thierry


> On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 3:59:00 PM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> 
> > README.md links to the files build/pkgs/*_prereq*/distros/*.txt for this 
> > purpose.
> >
> > Yes, the installation guide needs improvements; this is 
> > https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/33088
> > (which needs help).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 2:51:44 PM UTC-8 Thierry 
> > (sage-googlesucks@xxx) wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> the install from source documentation used to separate between minimal
> >> requirements to build Sage and the optional packages that avoids
> >> building things that can be provided by the distro. It seems that the
> >> two list have been merged on recent documentation:
> >>
> >> https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/installation/source.html
> >>
> >> Is there a place where we could find publically (not in
> >> SAGE_ROOT/build/pkgs/_prereq) the very minimal requirements to build
> >> Sage on some distros ?
> >>
> >> Ciao,
> >> Thierry
> >>
> >>
> 
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[sage-devel] minimal requirements

[Thierry]

Hi,

the install from source documentation used to separate between minimal
requirements to build Sage and the optional packages that avoids
building things that can be provided by the distro. It seems that the
two list have been merged on recent documentation:

https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/installation/source.html

Is there a place where we could find publically (not in
SAGE_ROOT/build/pkgs/_prereq) the very minimal requirements to build
Sage on some distros ?

Ciao,
Thierry

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Re: [sage-devel] Sage and the Pyjion JIT compiler

[Thierry Dumont]

Le 31/01/2022 à 08:01, Matthias Koeppe a écrit :
We may be able to speed up the parts of Sage that are implemented in 
Python using the Pyjion JIT compiler (https://www.trypyjion.com/). 
Running the Sage test suite with  Pyjion activated works remarkably 
well; there are only a small number of crashes and test failures. I 
haven't checked whether there are any actual speedups for Sage code.

https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/32845


Interesting ! How does it compares to numba or pythran ?

It is less intrusive... but what about types which are not python native 
ones ? also numba is "numpy frendly" and allows multitreading; here?

What about classes ?

If I have time, I'll try on numerical computations.
Yours
t.d.

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: 32768

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 08:37:52AM -0800, William Stein wrote:
[...]
> 
> 
> Amazing.  Does anybody reading this use 32-bit Linux?

Not using on a daily basis, but in in october 2021, i built a Sage
Debian Live 32 bit because Nicolas was going to teach Sage in Burkina
Faso (and i was teaching Sage in Algeria a couple of weeks later), and
to be honest, cygwin is too slow to be used during such a tutorial. The
image can still be downloaded at:

https://lipn.univ-paris13.fr/~monteil/hebergement/bobo/2021-10-16-sage_9.4-debian_bullseye-live_20210407.img
sha256sum : 7b6b9c6bc57bfd177286d20e7878e456aec67cda398d88bf3a43f291badbeaf9

Such Sage binaries are built within a qemu VM.

Note that not all optional packages are installed (some failed to
build), and some doctests are failing, which is why i did not release it
(and because i still want to fix some things in the SDL itself). But it
still contains most of Sage.

What seems clear to me is that, as i stopped to release SDL for a while,
the number of 32bit issues increased (by lack of pressure), also, most
upstream projects seem not test fo 32bit architecture anymore.

Apparently, there was at least one student with a 32bit laptop in
Burkina Faso, none in Algeria. The next SDL will be 64bit, though we
could continue to use my qemu machinery to build and test for 32bit
arcitecture.

Ciao,
Thierry

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[sage-devel] Unreachable-code warnings in GiNaC / sagelib / sage-9.5.rc1

[Thierry Thomas]

Hello,

Trying to upgrade Sage to 9.5 on FreeBSD, I'm encountering an infinite
loop in doc-inventory--reference-manifolds.

When investigating for this problem (not yet solved), I noticed several
warnings in sagelib / ginac when compiled with clang:

sage/symbolic/ginac/cmatcher.cpp:548:17: warning: code will never be executed 
[-Wunreachable-code]
ret_val = false;
^
sage/symbolic/ginac/cmatcher.cpp:761:17: warning: code will never be executed 
[-Wunreachable-code]
ret_val = false;
^

sage/symbolic/ginac/numeric.cpp:981:9: warning: code will never be executed 
[-Wunreachable-code]
setflag(status_flags::evaluated | status_flags::expanded);
^~~
sage/symbolic/ginac/numeric.cpp:4368:34: warning: code will never be executed 
[-Wunreachable-code]
throw std::runtime_error("iquo: bad input");
 ^
sage/symbolic/ginac/numeric.cpp:4406:34: warning: code will never be executed 
[-Wunreachable-code]
throw std::runtime_error("iquo2: bad input");
 ^~

These lines could simply be removed, unless some other behaviour was
intended?

Regards.
-- 
Th. Thomas.

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Re: [sage-devel] ask.sagemath.org down ?

[thierry]

Hi,

apparently, there was a big electricity cut in the North of Paris and
the one PDU did not restart correctly. Hopefully, someone will restart
the host soon.

Ciao,
Thierry


On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 05:03:51PM +0200, Jan Groenewald wrote:
> Down for me too (from South Africa and from Germany)
> 
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 at 16:04, Emmanuel Charpentier <
> emanuel.charpent...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > About  Dec 28, 2021 15:00 CET ask.sagemath.org doesn't answer. ISTR that
> > it runs on some computer at Université Paris Sud.
> >
> > Can someone check me on this ?
> >
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> > .
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
>   .~.
>   /V\ Jan Groenewald
>  /( )\www.aims.ac.za
>  ^^-^^
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ask.sagemath.org issues - do we need it?

[Thierry]

On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 07:00:54AM -0800, kcrisman wrote:
> Some hopefully-useful comments:
> 
> Overall, I am not sure why the project is running this server. I think we 
> > are spreading ourselves pretty thin here. There is also:
> > - https://groups.google.com/g/sage-support
> > - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/sage
> >
> 50 questions in last 6 months - thankfully, not as many about the Sage ERP 
> software as in the past - so nowhere near the volume of ask.sagemath?  But 
> see below.
> 
> > - https://stackexchange.com/search?q=sage
> > - https://mathoverflow.net/search?q=sage
> >
> negligible
>  
> Also https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/sagemath - 50 
> questions in the past 18 months. 
> 
> Though I haven't had time to contribute to any of these regularly since 
> somewhat before the pandemic, my observations are twofold on this:
> 1) The same people were helping on both the SE sites and ask.sagemath
> 2) The response time and quality (and number of answers) were all better on 
> ask.sagemath
> It's possible this has changed recently, but more likely it is just that 
> some of the networking issues have made it less reliable, but haven't 
> improved service on the other sites. Contributors to answers have liked 
> ask.sagemath.

An additional benefit from ask.sagemath is that is it well referenced on
search engines, so that answers posted there can be used as a knowledge
database.

> I do notice that ask.sagemath has for some time only reported "0 years
> ago" for recent questions - I don't think the askbot developer
> (https://askbot.com) has been super productive lately and of course we
> don't have the ability to support that software as well as Sage
> itself.  That seems to be more of a sticking point, though I think
> Thierry and Samuel will have some relevant comments on that.

This "0 years ago" comes from a change in some javascript where, there
is a jump from hours to years, without knowing about days and months.

Maybe it is fixed on another upstream branch. Note that we are still on
the 0.7.x branch since migrating requires some work. Indeed, when we
upgrade, we need to run some migration scripts that update the database
structure. Unfortunately, our database scheme is not exactly the same as
the official one since in the early years, ask.sagemath was installed by
askbot developper himself, who adapted the db to some needs (perhaps
William can say more about that). We already fixed a lots of such
things, but when i moved ask.sagemath in emergency last year from Ohio
State University to Paris North University, i updated the versions until
i fall on some database migration issue and did not go further. This
might not be that hard to fix, but it is pretty boring (one have to
understand where is the bug, do some sql to adapt our tweaked database
to what it is supposed to be, and try again to see if the migration
script pass).

If someone from the community is willing to give a try, i could set up a
separated container, that is a duplicate of the current production
server and provide an SSH access.

> As for sage-support, it's always surprising to me how many "customers"
> simply disappear as soon as you mention asking a question there -
> somehow they either want a Q site, or to ask on Facebook, or
> whatever.  I don't really know why this happens, but clearly the Q
> sites (in toto) are necessary.

It is a pity that sage-support is not well referenced by search engines
since there are some pretty good answers there. If i understand
correctly, on discourse it is possible to ask and answer questions by
email, so that people that prefer the sage-support way could contribute
as well. However, i think that merging ask.sagemath and sage-support
into some discourse instance and keep all links well redirected will
require quite some work.

Ciao,
Thierry


> Finally, to anticipate a question that has come up in the past on this 
> issue, I had previously inquired with a SE employee about transferring 
> data, and it seems it's not really a viable option.  (As a very tangential 
> note, one could make a similar observation about Trac versus GH/GL - could 
> one take all those very useful discussions and import them?)
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] ask.sagemath.org issues - do we need it?

[Thierry]

On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:37:06PM +, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:31 PM Thierry
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 11:20:31AM -0800, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> > > I have received a report that ask.sagemath.org account management is 
> > > broken:
> > > > das "recover account" jedoch funktioniert jedoch nicht.
> > > > wenn man auf den button klickt passiert lange nichts, und irgendwann 
> > > > "504
> > > Gateway Time-out".
> > >
> > > I don't normally use ask.sagemath.org myself, but to reproduce the 
> > > reported
> > > error, I've tried logging in using Google and also eventually got a 504.
> > > https://ask.sagemath.org/account/signin/complete-oauth2/?state==email+profile+https%3A%2F%2Fwww.googleapis.com%2Fauth%2Fuserinfo.profile+https%3A%2F%2Fwww.googleapis.com%2Fauth%2Fuserinfo.email+openid=0=consent#
> > >
> > > Overall, I am not sure why the project is running this server. I think we
> > > are spreading ourselves pretty thin here. There is also:
> > > - https://groups.google.com/g/sage-support
> > > - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/sage
> > > - https://stackexchange.com/search?q=sage
> > > - https://mathoverflow.net/search?q=sage
> > >
> > > Is any of the information at
> > > https://wiki.sagemath.org/Infrastructure#ask.sagemath.org still current?
> >
> > The information there is up-to-date. The issue about account recovery is
> > due to the fact that the current server is not configured to send
> > emails.
> 
> We can fix a smtp server (a smarthost) for askbot, just like we do for
> trac - trac cannot send emails itself,
> due to GCE restrictions, but it certainly can use a smarthost to send emails.

This should be doable, it seems to only need the host name, the user
name on the smarthost and its password.

Ciao,
Thierry



> Dima
> 
> 
> > However, sending an email to sage-askbot-ad...@googlegroups.com
> > should lead to some admin changing the user's password (we did that in
> > the past).
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Thierry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/da62341d-d157-405c-9ea1-ea5f316d54c7n%40googlegroups.com.
> >
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Re: [sage-devel] ask.sagemath.org issues - do we need it?

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 11:20:31AM -0800, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> I have received a report that ask.sagemath.org account management is broken:
> > das "recover account" jedoch funktioniert jedoch nicht.
> > wenn man auf den button klickt passiert lange nichts, und irgendwann "504 
> Gateway Time-out".
> 
> I don't normally use ask.sagemath.org myself, but to reproduce the reported 
> error, I've tried logging in using Google and also eventually got a 504.
> https://ask.sagemath.org/account/signin/complete-oauth2/?state==email+profile+https%3A%2F%2Fwww.googleapis.com%2Fauth%2Fuserinfo.profile+https%3A%2F%2Fwww.googleapis.com%2Fauth%2Fuserinfo.email+openid=0=consent#
> 
> Overall, I am not sure why the project is running this server. I think we 
> are spreading ourselves pretty thin here. There is also:
> - https://groups.google.com/g/sage-support
> - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/sage
> - https://stackexchange.com/search?q=sage
> - https://mathoverflow.net/search?q=sage
> 
> Is any of the information at 
> https://wiki.sagemath.org/Infrastructure#ask.sagemath.org still current?

The information there is up-to-date. The issue about account recovery is
due to the fact that the current server is not configured to send
emails. However, sending an email to sage-askbot-ad...@googlegroups.com
should lead to some admin changing the user's password (we did that in
the past).

Ciao,
Thierry




> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Docker images no longer being build and is gitlab still maintained?

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 07:32:18PM +, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2021, 15:38 William Stein,  wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 2:32 AM Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> > > On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 10:12 AM Maarten Derickx
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What are the specs that the dedicated builder would need? In terms of
> > cpu + ram + diskspace?
> > >
> > > nothing spectacularly big, but somehow it manages to run out of
> > > smallish disk space on an INRIA (or was it Paris Sud, aka Paris
> > > Saclay?).
> > >
> > > Like, in might need more than 20 Gb or 50Gb free space for some reason.
> > > Nothing too bug, a reasonable modern desktop would do the job ---if we
> > > don't let it run on every push into the repo.
> >
> > There is still a powerful server at Univ of Washington that I bought using
> > a grant specifically for Sage development
> > (nearly a decade ago!) that could be used for building Docker images. It's
> > very powerful and has tons of disk space.
> > The drawback is it could just go "poof" at any moment, and it could be a
> > very long time until it comes back, if ever.
> > But for building docker images, that's probably fine.
> 
> can it be used as a gitlab or/and github runner for sagemath org?
> 
> I guess I don't have an account there, but it would be good to get one.

If this ressource is not fully used, i am also volonteering to get an
account and setup some specific (e.g. 32bit) patchbots there.

Ciao,
Thierry



> Dima
> 
> 
> > wstein@kucalc:~/cocalc-docker/linux$ df -h .
> > FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> > tank/home/wstein  2.7T  252G  2.5T  10% /home/wstein
> > wstein@kucalc:~/cocalc-docker/linux$ uptime
> >  07:30:53 up 904 days, 20:11,  9 users,  load average: 0.67, 0.61, 0.52
> > wstein@kucalc:~/cocalc-docker/linux$ free -g
> >   totalusedfree  shared  buff/cache
> > available
> > Mem:251  11  41   2 198
> >   198
> > Swap:   255   1 254
> > wstein@kucalc:~/cocalc-docker/linux$ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep processor
> > |wc -l
> > 48
> >
> > -- William
> >
> > >
> > > Dima
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 19:13:14 UTC+1 dim...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, 27 Nov 2021, 17:07 Maarten Derickx, 
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I noticed on https://hub.docker.com/r/sagemath/sagemath/ that there
> > haven't been any updates of the official sagemath docker image since
> > 9.3.beta8-py3 about 9 months ago.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On that page it mentions "Every push to our GitLab repository
> > triggers a pipeline in GitLab CI which pushes the actual images to Docker
> > Hub."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Now I had a look at the pipelines on gitlab
> > https://gitlab.com/sagemath/sage/-/pipelines?page=1=all=success
> > the last succesful run of the pipelines was about 8 months ago. So gitlab
> > pipelines being broken seems to explain why no new images are being pushed
> > to dockerhub.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So I am wondering, is gitlab being phased out/abandoned, or do we
> > still support it and do we just need to show it some love?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> It needs quite a bit of love, in form of a gitlab runner that doesn't
> > run out of disk space (a dedicated runner at France runs of disk space).
> > > >>
> > > >> It's perhaps the time to switch over to GitHub.
> > > >> Mattias Koeppe should have an idea how much effort this would entail.
> > > >>
> > > >> Dima
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks,
> > > >>> Maarten
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "sage-devel" group.
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> > send an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
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> >

[sage-devel] Mirrors and binaries for MacOS and Windows

[Thierry]

Hi,

i have to tell various people how to install Sage on their OS and i am a
bit confused about MacOS and Windows installers.

Regarding MacOS, the installation guide [1] speaks about alternative
binaries than the ones that are available on the mirrors, explaining
that those "have been signed and notarized, eliminating various errors
caused by Apple’s gatekeeper antimalware protections".

My first question is: if such binaries are better, why don't we
distribute similar binaries on the mirrors ? Which binaries should be
recommended ?

Regarding Windows, the mirrors propose a 9.2 version of Sage (0.6.2
installer), but the last release available on [2] is Sage 9.3 (0.6.3
installer)

My second question is: is the 9.3 ready for use and recommended, and if
yes, why isn't it available through the mirrors ?

Ciao,
Thierry

[1] https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/installation/binary.html#macos

[2] https://github.com/sagemath/sage-windows/releases

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: how to benefit from spkg-configure.m4 ?

[Thierry]

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:19:14PM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 11:10:33 AM UTC-7 Thierry 
> (sage-googlesucks@xxx) wrote:
> 
> > > > I would like to run all self tests (with SAGE_CHECK='yes'), but if
> >
> > > some self-test fails, i want to log which package failed, and then 
> > > > resume with the further packages. 
> > > 
> > > This is SAGE_CHECK=warn 
> >
> > Great, thanks ! Where can i find the list of failed tested packages 
> > afterwards ?
> 
> 
> The build system gives a report at the end of the build based on scanning 
> the log files. 
> Look for "look_for_errors" in build/make/install for this mechanism.

Thanks for the pointer. Actually, using SAGE_CHECK='warn' is broken and
does not report anything, see https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/32781

Ciao,
Thierry


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Re: [sage-devel] Re: how to benefit from spkg-configure.m4 ?

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 08:57:47AM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 5:59:36 AM UTC-7 Thierry 
> (sage-googlesucks@xxx) wrote:
> 
> > Here is another request, in the same vein 
> > towards being able to build and test most things without human 
> > intervention, especially in order to maintain some pressure for 32bit 
> > systems:
> 
> 
> Are you aware that we are automatically testing 32bit on GH Actions?

Given the amount of failure i am getting when trying to build and check
32bit Sage binary (i did not build SDL for 2 years), it seems those are
not enough to maintain pressure on Sage code for 32bit compatibility. In
particular, some packages were updated while their self-tests failed
(and did not before). Anyway, i have to build dedicated binary for SDL
and rebuild 32-bit patchbots, and i would like to run self-test as much
as possible.

> > I would like to run all self tests (with SAGE_CHECK='yes'), but if
> > some self-test fails, i want to log which package failed, and then
> > resume with the further packages.
> 
> This is SAGE_CHECK=warn

Great, thanks ! Where can i find the list of failed tested packages
afterwards ?

Ciao,
Thierry


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Re: [sage-devel] Re: how to benefit from spkg-configure.m4 ?

[Thierry]

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 02:01:30PM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> There's no such make target, but a ticket to add such 
> targets: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/31501

Thanks for the pointer. Here is another request, in the same vein
towards being able to build and test most things without human
intervention, especially in order to maintain some pressure for 32bit
systems:

I would like to run all self tests (with SAGE_CHECK='yes'), but if some
self-test fails, i want to log which package failed, and then resume
with the further packages.

Currently, when a self-test fails, the build breaks, i can workaround
this with some while loop, however, i would like to know which packages
caused the error, so that i could design an optimal SAGE_CHECK_PACKAGES
variable for the next build and and report the failed ones on trac and
upstream.

Also, regarding optional packages, i would like to install them all with
a series of --enable- (or with a dedicated configure option) and
log every package that failed to build.

The overall goal is both to propose huge builds like in Sage Debian
Live, and to run patchbots with all (if not all) optional packages, both
32 and 64 bits so that they remain under control.

Ciao,
Thierry




> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 12:35:57 PM UTC-7 Thierry 
> (sage-googlesucks@xxx) wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > let "pack" be an optional package with a spkg-configure.m4 file, and
> > assume that an equivalent package is installed from the distro and that
> > ./configure asserts that "using system package; SPKG will not be
> > installed".
> >
> > If i do "make pack", the package is installed anyway. What would be the
> > make command to install pack unless the distro provided ?
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Thierry
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: what is in SAGE_ROOT/pkgs/sagemath-standard ?

[Thierry]

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 02:02:45PM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> See 
> https://wiki.sagemath.org/ReleaseTours/sage-9.4#New_location_for_distribution_package_sources:_SAGE_ROOT.2Fpkgs

Thanks for the pointer.

Unfortunately, it does not mention the sagemath-standard/build/ and its
4 subdirectories.

Ciao,
Thierry




> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 12:28:22 PM UTC-7 Thierry 
> (sage-googlesucks@xxx) wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > a new SAGE_ROOT/pkg/ appeared, and contains sagemath-standard/build/
> > which weights 3,2G and contains 4 directories:
> >
> > cythonized/
> > lib.linux-x86_64-3.9/
> > scripts-3.9/
> > temp.linux-x86_64-3.9/
> >
> > What is the purpose of those directory ? Which could be removed without
> > breaking Sage runtime ? Which could be removed without taking some time
> > when re-running make build ?
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Thierry
> >
> >
> 
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[sage-devel] how to benefit from spkg-configure.m4 ?

[Thierry]

Hi,

let "pack" be an optional package with a spkg-configure.m4 file, and
assume that an equivalent package is installed from the distro and that
./configure asserts that "using system package; SPKG will not be
installed".

If i do "make pack", the package is installed anyway. What would be the
make command to install pack unless the distro provided ?

Ciao,
Thierry

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[sage-devel] what is in SAGE_ROOT/pkgs/sagemath-standard ?

[Thierry]

Hi,

a new SAGE_ROOT/pkg/ appeared, and contains sagemath-standard/build/
which weights 3,2G and contains 4 directories:

cythonized/
lib.linux-x86_64-3.9/
scripts-3.9/
temp.linux-x86_64-3.9/

What is the purpose of those directory ? Which could be removed without
breaking Sage runtime ? Which could be removed without taking some time
when re-running make build ?

Ciao,
Thierry

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Re: [sage-devel] Adding tickmarks and its formats to bounding frame in 3d

[Thierry]

Hi Paul,

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 12:25:25PM -0700, Paul wrote:
> To SageDevs,
> Tick marks on 3d plots was mentioned in this ticket 
> see https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/12402.
> Three.js was added but tickmarks functionality has not been complete. It 
> would be implemented for each axis. There would be two parameters 
> "ticks" and "ticks_formatter". For each parameter, there would be a list of 
> three dicts, one per axis, or a single dict controlling all three axes. 

Do you have some code to share ? If yes, feel free to open a ticket, see
the developer guide: https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/developer/ Do not
hesitate to ask for more details if needed.

Ciao,
Thierry


> Paul
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Remove nose package?

[Thierry]

Hi,

nose selftests are broken, networkx and cvxopt selftests are broken
because they still rely on nose (in Sage), while upstream now relies
on pytest. Symengine does not rely on nose (nor pytest), but on cmake.

- fix for cvxopt: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/32598 (needs_review)
- fix for networkx: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/32597 (needs_review)

- removal of nose (proposal): https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/32595

Now that Sage does not rely on nose anymore, i am +1 for its removal
(and will put #32595 on needs_review if we agree on this).

By the way, should pytest become standard ?

Ciao,
Thierry






On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:53:36PM +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:52 PM Isuru Fernando  wrote:
> 
> > > It looks to be required to run tests for networkx, cvxopt and
> > symengine.  Will tests for those packages just need to be run after
> > installing nose manually?
> >
> > At least for symengine, we can change to pytest. I suppose other packages
> > can too.
> >
> 
> networkx switched to pytest, cf.
> https://networkx.org/documentation/stable/developer/contribute.html#contributor-guide
> 
> >
> > Isuru
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 4:49 PM David Roe  wrote:
> >
> >> I don't have a strong opinion on whether to drop nose or not, but I was
> >> curious how it was used in Sage.  It looks to be required to run tests for
> >> networkx, cvxopt and symengine.  Will tests for those packages just need to
> >> be run after installing nose manually?
> >> David
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 5:35 PM Isuru Fernando  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Building the nose package requires 'use_2to3' in setuptools, but the
> >>> latest setuptools version
> >>> has dropped support for 'use_2to3'. We can either run 2to3 manually or
> >>> drop the nose
> >>> package. Since nose hasn't had an update since 2016 and is unmaintained,
> >>> I think it's time
> >>> to drop it.
> >>>
> >>> Isuru
> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>> .
> >>>
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> >> .
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Re: [sage-devel] Allow for --user pip installs for sage?

[Thierry]

Hi,

for what it worth, i am +1 for letting the random user to pip-install
her own packages, either on ~/.local as William suggested, and/or in
~/.sage/local as it used to be the case (this location ensures that 
Python packages unrelated to some Sage activity will not add noise).

Ciao,
Thierry




On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 01:16:16PM -0700, William Stein wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:46 PM Nils Bruin  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Presently,
> >
> > $ sage -pip install --user .
> >
> > fails (at least for me, with a vanilla sage install on FC33) with
> >
> > ERROR: Can not perform a '--user' install. User site-packages are not 
> > visible in this virtualenv.
> >
> > Perhaps it's worth having this?
> >
> > Also, I noticed:
> >
> > $ sage --python3 -c "import sys; print(sys.path)" ['', 
> > '/usr/lib64/python39.zip', '/usr/lib64/python3.9', 
> > '/usr/lib64/python3.9/lib-dynload', 
> > '/usr/local/sage/sage-git/local/lib64/python3.9/site-packages', 
> > '/usr/local/sage/sage-git/local/lib/python3.9/site-packages']
> >
> > note that the first enstries in this list actually refer to the system 
> > python, not the sage python! I think that means that any patched package 
> > installs that sage uses will be shadowed by the system installations. 
> > That's probably not what is meant.
> 
> On CoCalc I think we explicitly patch the Sage we provide to include ~/.local:
> 
> ~$ sage --python3 -c "import sys; print(sys.path)"
> ['', '/ext/sage/sage-9.3/local/lib/python39.zip',
> '/ext/sage/sage-9.3/local/lib/python3.9',
> '/ext/sage/sage-9.3/local/lib/python3.9/lib-dynload',
> '/home/user/.local/lib/python3.9/site-packages',
> '/ext/sage/sage-9.3/local/lib/python3.9/site-packages',
> '/ext/sage/sage-9.3/local/lib/python3.9/site-packages/awalipy-0.4-py3.9-linux-x86_64.egg']
> 
> Also note that all the other path entries are our sage install (not
> the system python, which is crazy, as you point out).
> 
> For us, it's very very important that "pip install --user" just works.
> Also, for us, usually people are working in a very clean well defined
> environment (a cocalc project), which they are using for a  very
> specific "project" (e.g., teaching or taking a specific class, or
> writing a paper), so using ~/.local is very reasonable.I see at
> [1] that our page about installing packages "into sage is not
> supported", and it should be updated to say that "sage --pip install"
> does work.   We also make pip default to --user so actually "pip
> install" does just work.
> 
> I just found a "random" package on pypi:
> 
> ~$ sage --pip install pytype
> Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not writeable
> Collecting pytype
> ...
> ~$ sage
> ┌┐
> │ SageMath version 9.3, Release Date: 2021-05-09 │
> │ Using Python 3.9.2. Type "help()" for help.│
> └┘
> sage: import pytype
> sage:  # yeah
> 
> IMHO, this is pretty good user experience.
> 
> Sometimes people do break their sage installs via installing stuff
> into ~/.local, but it's also easy to fix by just deleting ~/.local
> and starting over, and it's usually very clear this is the problem
> based on the traceback.
> 
>  -- William
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Outdated instructions in "git the hard way"

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 02:05:36PM +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021, 19:39 Simon King,  wrote:
> 
> > Hi Dima,
> >
> > On 2021-09-09, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> > > I think that 'git trac' is mainly used by the release manager - I
> > > won't recommend it to newcomers.
> >
> > No, I'm not a release manager, but I find it very practical to be able
> > to do "git trac pull 12345" instead of doing a series of commands that
> > I simply don't manage to memorise.
> >
> 
> assuming that "trac" points to our Git server (as it normally done) this is
> just
> 
> git pull trac 


This is not "just": your suggestion hides the fact that you have to
copy/paste the name of the ticket branch from a webbrowser, which is
boring and takes time.

The point of the "git trac" command is to link git branches with trac
tickets, so that you do not have to do it by hand.

Ciao,
Thierry




> 
> > Best regards,
> > Simon
> >
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> > .
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Outdated instructions in "git the hard way"

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 09, 2021 at 03:04:37AM -0700, 'Martin R' via sage-devel wrote:
> Actually, I use "git trac" a lot.  Mainly "git trac try", "git trac pull" 
> and "git trac create".  I find it very convenient to only pass the trac 
> ticket number.

I use it a lot too. Let me also mention "git trac find" which, combined to
"git blame" allows you to discover which ticket introduced some feature or
bug, then you can add the participants in CC of a ticket corresponding to
that feature or bug.

Ciao,
Thierry


 
> Martin
> 
> dim...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 9. September 2021 um 10:43:58 UTC+2:
> 
> > I think that 'git trac' is mainly used by the release manager - I
> > won't recommend it to newcomers.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:36 AM Vincent Delecroix
> > <20100.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > +1 : Learning git is a useful skill. And a developer is likely to
> > > know git already.
> > >
> > > Le 09/09/2021 à 09:49, Eric Gourgoulhon a écrit :
> > > > Also the title of that section, "Git the hard way", should be changed. 
> > It
> > > > should rather be "Git the *standard* way" IMHO.
> > > >
> > > > Eric.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le mercredi 8 septembre 2021 à 00:47:44 UTC+2, Nils Bruin a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >> On:
> > > >>
> > > >> https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/developer/manual_git.html
> > > >>
> > > >> it is suggested to start with
> > > >>
> > > >> git clone https://gitlab.com/sagemath/dev/tracmirror.git
> > > >>
> > > >> however, the gitlab mirror is stuck at 9.3. The github mirror tracks 
> > the
> > > >> development tree much better. Shouldn't we be pointing people to that
> > > >> instead? Or perhaps straight to trac.sagemath.org ?
> > > >>
> > > >> Incidentally, on FC 33 and FC 34, the default settings are pretty 
> > strict
> > > >> for cryptographic signatures, and "ssh g...@trac.sagemath.org info" 
> > fails
> > > >> as a result. A way of making FC >=33 more accepting of outdated 
> > signature
> > > >> schemes is by:
> > > >>
> > > >> sudo update-crypto-policies --set LEGACY
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > .
> >
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: workers for docker images on gitlab

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 09:10:08PM +0300, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> Someone has to set up a worker with enough resources.

What are the requirements ? Is it possible to run unprivileged
docker for such task ? Is there a straightforward doc somewhere ?

Ciao,
Thierry


> The worker at U. Paris-Sud runs out of disk space.
>  
> On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, 21:06 Frédéric Chapoton,  wrote:
> 
> > Same problem still stands. We will not have docker images for 9.4. Can
> > somebody care ?
> >
> > Frederic
> >
> > Le jeudi 1 avril 2021 à 09:54:22 UTC+2, Frédéric Chapoton a écrit :
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> it would be good to make sure that sage 9.3 will have a correct docker
> >> image.
> >> But since recently (9.3.b9), the gitlab setting seems no longer to work.
> >>
> >> https://gitlab.com/sagemath/sage/-/pipelines
> >>
> >> Maybe missing workers ? Can somebody do domething please ?
> >>
> >> Frédéric
> >>
> >> PS. Please patchbot client owners upgrade to pachtbot 3.0.2
> >>
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> > .
> >
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Re: [sage-devel] block vector

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Fri, Jul 09, 2021 at 06:30:57AM +0200, Clemens Heuberger wrote:
> 
> Is there any recommendation on how to construct "block vectors" (in analogy
> to `sage.matrix.special.block_matrix`) in readable way?
> 
> We probably do not have subdivisions of vectors in the same way as we have
> subdivisions of matrices, but still: the options I see so far are
> 
> sage: v1 = vector([1, 2])
> sage: v2 = vector([3, 4])
> sage: iterable = [v1, v2]
> sage: vector(sum((tuple(v) for v in iterable), tuple()))
> (1, 2, 3, 4)
> 
> or
> 
> sage: v1 = vector([1, 2])
> sage: v2 = vector([3, 4])
> sage: iterable = [v1, v2]
> sage: vector(block_matrix([[matrix(v) for v in iterable]]))
> (1, 2, 3, 4)
> 
> None of this options seem to be very readable.
> 
> Any objections to introduce something like
> 
> def block_vector(iterable):
> return vector(sum((tuple(v) for v in iterable), tuple()))
> 
> in `sage.modules.free_module_element.pyx` or other suggestions?
> 
> I am currently reviewing #21235 and such "block vectors" are constructed
> repeatedly to work together with block matrices.

You provided a wrong ticket number.

Ciao,
Thierry


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Re: [sage-devel] ask.sagemath.org down ?

[Thierry]

On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 09:25:00AM +, Thierry wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 12:00:36AM -0700, Emmanuel Charpentier wrote:
> > I could connect to ask.sagemath.org on Jul 8, 2021 at about 7:30 CEST, but 
> > no longer around 8;30 CEST. Air conditioning acting up again ?
> 
> Probably not this time, i did reboot the host this morning but something went
> wrong apparently, since i can not access the box. I will request a physical
> reboot and see what happened.

The box is restarted seamlessly, it was locked at BIOS time, for no apparent
reason.

Ciao,
Thierry



> Ciao,
> Thierry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
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Re: [sage-devel] ask.sagemath.org down ?

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 12:00:36AM -0700, Emmanuel Charpentier wrote:
> I could connect to ask.sagemath.org on Jul 8, 2021 at about 7:30 CEST, but 
> no longer around 8;30 CEST. Air conditioning acting up again ?

Probably not this time, i did reboot the host this morning but something went
wrong apparently, since i can not access the box. I will request a physical
reboot and see what happened.

Ciao,
Thierry





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Re: [sage-devel] ask.sagemath.org is down

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 12:07:39AM +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 11:58 PM Diego Sejas
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hello! It seems it happened again. I am unable to access Ask SageMath. Are 
> > there any news about this matter?
> 
> indeed. wiki down too, as expected. :-(


A similar air conditioning outage as last week happened, so the
sysadmins decided not to restart most of the machines until an audit by
some electrician is done on Monday. Let us hope they will identify the
source of the problem.

Ciao,
Thierry



> > On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 11:09:49 AM UTC-4 Thierry (sage-googlesucks@xxx) 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jun 05, 2021 at 10:29:07PM +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> >> > On Sat, 5 Jun 2021, 21:50 John H Palmieri,  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > As pointed out in another message, ask.sagemath.org is down. Can anyone
> >> > > help?
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > https://wiki.sagemath.org
> >> >
> >> > is down as well (they are hosted in more or less the same place)
> >> >
> >> > And this is a bad failure. We need wiki as much as we need trac.
> >>
> >> I got some news: there has been an outage of the air conditioning in the
> >> server room, so everything was shut down. As it is still hot in the
> >> room, the box that hosts ask and wiki will be restarted tomorrow. In any
> >> case we have backup.
> >>
> >> Good to know that building was not burning
> >> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-ovh-fire-idUSKBN2B20NU
> >>
> >> Ciao,
> >> Thierry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > --
> >> > > John
> >> > >
> >> > > --
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> >> > > .
> >> > >
> >> >
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Re: [sage-devel] ask.sagemath.org is down

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Sat, Jun 05, 2021 at 10:29:07PM +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2021, 21:50 John H Palmieri,  wrote:
> 
> > As pointed out in another message, ask.sagemath.org is down. Can anyone
> > help?
> >
> 
> https://wiki.sagemath.org
> 
> is down as well (they are hosted in more or less the same place)
> 
> And this is a bad failure. We need wiki as much as we need trac.

I got some news: there has been an outage of the air conditioning in the
server room, so everything was shut down. As it is still hot in the
room, the box that hosts ask and wiki will be restarted tomorrow. In any
case we have backup.

Good to know that building was not burning
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-ovh-fire-idUSKBN2B20NU

Ciao,
Thierry




> 
> > --
> > John
> >
> > --
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> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/6ed60f74-51d7-4d2a-9af6-b0cbc472348bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> > .
> >
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[sage-devel] Sage-9.3: error in dochtml/manifolds / matrix_real_double_dense / MPFR / matplotlib

[Thierry Thomas]

Hello,

Trying to build Sage-9.3 on FreeBSD, it fails in dochtml/manifolds, with
the following trace:

[manifolds] # extension module 'sage.matrix.matrix_real_double_dense' loaded 
from 
'/usr/ports/math/sage-9.3/work/build/usr/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/matrix/matrix_real_double_dense.cpython-38.so'
[manifolds] # trying 
/usr/ports/math/sage-9.3/work/build/usr/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/matrix/matrix_double_dense.cpython-38.so
[manifolds] # extension module 'sage.matrix.matrix_double_dense' loaded from 
'/usr/ports/math/sage-9.3/work/build/usr/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/matrix/matrix_double_dense.cpython-38.so'
[manifolds] # extension module 'sage.matrix.matrix_double_dense' executed from 
'/usr/ports/math/sage-9.3/work/build/usr/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/matrix/matrix_double_dense.cpython-38.so'
[manifolds] import 'sage.matrix.matrix_double_dense' # 
<_frozen_importlib_external.ExtensionFileLoader object at 0xa14c32790>
[manifolds] # extension module 'sage.matrix.matrix_real_double_dense' executed 
from 
'/usr/ports/math/sage-9.3/work/build/usr/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/matrix/matrix_real_double_dense.cpython-38.so'
[manifolds] import 'sage.matrix.matrix_real_double_dense' # 
<_frozen_importlib_external.ExtensionFileLoader object at 0xa155e0100>
get_str.c:157: MPFR assertion failed: size_s1 >= m
[manifolds] 
/usr/ports/math/sage-9.3/work/build/usr/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/manifolds/chart.py:docstring
 of sage.manifolds.chart.RealChart.plot:104: WARNING: Exception occurred in 
plotting chart-1
[manifolds]  from 
/usr/ports/math/sage-9.3/work/sage-9.3/src/doc/en/reference/manifolds/sage/manifolds/chart.rst:
[manifolds] Traceback (most recent call last):
[manifolds]   File 
"/usr/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/matplotlib/sphinxext/plot_directive.py",
 line 483, in run_code
[manifolds] exec(code, ns)
[manifolds]   File "", line 4, in 
[manifolds]   File "", line 9, in sphinx_plot
[manifolds] NameError: name 'matplotlib' is not defined
[manifolds] 
/usr/ports/math/sage-9.3/work/build/usr/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/sage/manifolds/chart.py:docstring
 of sage.manifolds.chart.RealChart.plot:121: WARNING: Exception occurred in 
plotting chart-2
[manifolds]  from 
/usr/ports/math/sage-9.3/work/sage-9.3/src/doc/en/reference/manifolds/sage/manifolds/chart.rst:
[manifolds] Traceback (most recent call last):
[manifolds]   File 
"/usr/local/lib/python3.8/site-packages/matplotlib/sphinxext/plot_directive.py",
 line 483, in run_code
[manifolds] exec(code, ns)
[manifolds]   File "", line 7, in 
[manifolds]   File "", line 9, in sphinx_plot
[manifolds] NameError: name 'matplotlib' is not defined

Sage 9.2 builds fine with the same external dependencies (i.e. mpfr
4.1.0, Python 3.8.9, matplotlib 3.4.1 and Sphinx 3.5.2), and I cannot
find what could cause this error. Any idea?
-- 
Th. Thomas.

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Re: [sage-devel] docker latest is 9.1 not 9.2

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, May 04, 2021 at 04:50:35PM +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 10:11 AM E. Madison Bray  wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 2:30 PM julian...@fsfe.org
> >  wrote:
[...]
> > I've restarted the gitlab-runner service.  It apparently started
> > hanging at some point for no apparent reason.  Simply kicking it with
> > a `sudo systemctl restart gitlab-runner` seems to have done the trick.
> 
> It's running out of disk space while attempting the build: I see
> 
> tee: logs/install.log: No space left on device
> 
> in https://gitlab.com/sagemath/sage/-/jobs/1231174714#L1361

Is there a way to manage gitlab runners "à la patchbot" ? I mean with a
simple procedure to allow anyone contribute computational ressources
with no administrative cost, and rootless ?

That would probably be helpful, since many people in the Sage community
will probably be willing to help, there are so many computational
ressources sleeping in many labs (small grids, but also desktops with
lot of cores and RAM which are used to ckeck email and browse the web).

How do running a gitlab runner compares with running a patchbot in terms
of RAM/CPU/Disk/bandwidth cost ?

Ciao,
Thierry




> >
> > If anyone would like to have access to the server hosting the
> > gitlab-runner service please send me an SSH public key.
> >
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Re: [sage-devel] How to install Cryptominisat-5.0.1 version in Sage-8.7 Inbox

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 04:16:42AM -0700, Dheeraj Sharma wrote:
> 
> Sir,
> 
> It has been required by the reviewer. I have submitted article in April 
> 2019.
> Reviewer does require to work in cryptominisat-5.0.1 specifically.
> 
> Please, tell the procedure.


This sound more like a question for ask.sagemath.org than sage-devel.

Anyway, if you want your reviewer to run Sage with cryptominisat-5.0.1,
you can suggest to use the live USB key Sage Debian Live 8.6 on which
cryptominisat-5.0.1 is installed, see

https://www.sagemath.org/download-liveusb.html
https://sagedebianlive.metelu.net/

Note that this Sage version runs Python 2.

Ciao,
Thierry



> On Saturday, 27 March 2021 at 14:04:06 UTC+5:30 dim...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > this is certainly not recommended for "normal" use. 
> >
> > If you are trying to reproduce computations done years ago, perhaps try 
> > installing a standalone version of cryptominisat, generate the input, and 
> > feed it into the solver.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 27 Mar 2021, 06:57 Dheeraj Sharma,  wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Sir,
> >>
> >> I have to specifically work on cryptominisat-5.0.1 version. I have tried 
> >> to install it by running command "./sage -p cryptominisat-5.0.1" on 
> >> terminal window (that is opened in Sage folder). But it is showing the 
> >> following statements:
> >>
> >> dheeraj@dheeraj-Latitude-5490:~/sage/sage_installation/sage-8.7$ ./sage 
> >> -p cryptominisat-5.0.1
> >> Attempting to download package cryptominisat-5.0.1
> >> >>> Checking online list of optional packages.
> >> >>> Checking online list of experimental packages.
> >> >>> Checking online list of huge packages.
> >> Error: could not find a package matching cryptominisat-5.0.1
> >>Try 'sage --package list' to see the available packages
> >>There is no package similar to cryptominisat-5.0.1
> >> You can find further packages at http://files.sagemath.org/spkg/
> >>
> >>
> >> I have further opened the web link provided in it. I have found that 
> >> cryptominsat-5.0.1 is available on following link.
> >> http://files.sagemath.org/spkg/upstream/cryptominisat/index.html
> >>
> >> Please, tell me the procedure to install cryptominisat-5.0.1.
> >>
> >> I am working on following operating system.
> >> Distributor ID: Ubuntu
> >> Description: Ubuntu 14.04.6 LTS
> >> Release: 14.04
> >> Codename: trusty
> >>
> >> With Regards,
> >> Dr. Dheeraj Kumar Sharma
> >> Assistant Professor
> >> Department of Electronics & Comm. Engg.
> >> National Institute of Technology, Kurukshetra
> >> Mob. No. +91-7206435934 <+91%2072064%2035934>,
> >>   +91-9897715970 <+91%2098977%2015970>
> >>   
> >>   
> >>
> >> -- 
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> >> email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
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> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAMTmor4-ZCztGPcEWv9wgeGuHUbz7eeT3qyHJGFJxnKE81mbgA%40mail.gmail.com
> >>  
> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAMTmor4-ZCztGPcEWv9wgeGuHUbz7eeT3qyHJGFJxnKE81mbgA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> >> .
> >>
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Replacing %display latex with %display html

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 11:20:05AM -0700, Eric Gourgoulhon wrote:
> PS: IMHO, things like %display latex or %display html are hindrances for 
> newcomers.

I understand that this is not the point, but for what it worth, i prefer
the default to remain the current plain text, as it provides more
explicit information, which are good to newcomers.

Example:

Univariate Polynomial Ring in X over Rational Field

vs

Q[X]

Ciao,
Thierry



> Le mardi 23 mars 2021 à 19:13:10 UTC+1, Eric Gourgoulhon a écrit :
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > Le mardi 23 mars 2021 à 16:49:07 UTC+1, Kwankyu Lee a écrit :
> >
> >> Hi all, 
> >>
> >> Changes by ticket #31536 may cause unexpected regressions in Sage in 
> >> jupyter notebook.  Please test and leave comments. 
> >>
> >> Here is the address: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/31536
> >>
> >
> > May I take the opportunity of this thread and ticket to ask why the LaTeX 
> > display of Sage objects in the Jupyter notebook is not performed via the 
> > standard Jupyter/IPython way for LaTeX rich output? This standard way 
> > amounts to simply  implementing a method _repr_latex_ , cf. 
> > https://ipython.readthedocs.io/en/stable/api/generated/IPython.display.html
> >
> > https://ipython.readthedocs.io/en/stable/api/generated/IPython.core.formatters.html?highlight=_repr_latex_#IPython.core.formatters.LatexFormatter
> >
> > For instance,  in a Sage Jupyter notebook, if one does
> >
> > class A(SageObject):
> >
> > def __init__(self, data):
> > self._data = data
> >
> > def _repr_latex_(self):
> > return '$' + str(latex(self._data)) + '$'
> >
> > s = A(sin(x^2))
> > s
> >
> > s is then automatically latex-rendered via MathJax without the need to 
> > type %display latex. The current treatment of LaTeX rich output in Sage 
> > looks much more complicated than that and apparently, no use of 
> > _repr_latex_ is done. 
> >
> > Eric.
> >
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Downgrade R to optional? See #31409.

[Thierry]

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 02:50:06PM -0800, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 1:55:54 PM UTC-8 Thierry 
> (sage-googlesucks@xxx) wrote:
> 
> > Until now, what i saw with WSL is that people have to install a 
> > GNU/Linux distro within WSL, to log in on it and then install and run 
> > Sage within WSL. 
> >
> > I wonder : is there a way to provide a windows executable installer that 
> > boostraps the whole stack WSL/GNU/Linux/Sage and provides a desktop icon 
> > that transparently starts Sage within WSL and opens a webbrowser within 
> > windows that connects to the WSL/GNU/Linux/Sage/jupyter instance via 
> > http ? 
> >
> 
> https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30505 has some pointers that go into this 
> direction.

Thanks.

> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Downgrade R to optional? See #31409.

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 01:37:19PM -0800, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> I have opened https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/31485 - Meta-ticket: Sage on 
> WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux)

Until now, what i saw with WSL is that people have to install a
GNU/Linux distro within WSL, to log in on it and then install and run
Sage within WSL.

I wonder : is there a way to provide a windows executable installer that
boostraps the whole stack WSL/GNU/Linux/Sage and provides a desktop icon
that transparently starts Sage within WSL and opens a webbrowser within
windows that connects to the WSL/GNU/Linux/Sage/jupyter instance via
http ?

Ciao,
Thierry



> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 1:10:01 PM UTC-8 emanuel.c...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tarc#31409 <https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/31409>, E. Madison Bray 
> > proposed to make R an optionalpackage only on Windows (which should be made 
> > possible by an upcoming patch of Matthias Koeppe).
> >
> > I replied :
> >
> > Arghhh…
> > This would be a documentation nightmare (explaining why a ticket is 
> > “optionally optional” is awkward at the very minimum…). It would also 
> > “froze” the idea of Windows 10 being a “second-class citizen” as far as 
> > Sage is concerned.
> >
> > I’m starting to consider promoting a WSL2 port as the preffered windows 
> > platform,and preparing a deprecation of the Cygwin port, which remains 
> > necessary as long as Windows versions <10 remain relevant only as rthe 
> > “sanest” way out of this predicament (“sane” being an hyperbole, of 
> > course…).
> >
> > This, IMHO, deserves further discussion.
> >
> > Le mercredi 10 mars 2021 à 13:30:06 UTC+1, erik@gmail.com a écrit :
> >
> >> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 6:13 PM Nathan Dunfield  
> >> wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> > An update: I just tried three different binary versions on Linux: The 
> >> Ubuntu 20.04 binary posted at SageMath.org, the sagemath/sagemath:develop 
> >> Docker image, and conda on RHEL 7. None of them "just worked" with "sage 
> >> -i 
> >> foo". The Docker image and conda failed completely with 
> >> > 
> >> > make: *** No rule to make target 'all-toolchain'. Stop. 
> >> > 
> >> > I got farther with the Ubuntu binary. Choosing "sage -i pyflakes", it 
> >> successfully pip-installed pyflakes and then started rebuilding all of 
> >> Sage 
> >> from scratch, starting with libpng, pkgconf, etc. So in some sense this 
> >> worked --- I was able to abort the build and import pyflakes --- but in 
> >> the 
> >> end was equivalent to building Sage from source if I hadn't stopped it. 
> >>
> >> Yes, this has been a persistent problem. It's a problem on 
> >> Sage-Windows as well. In the past I've gotten it to work, but every 
> >> time people make changes to the build system (which is often) it tends 
> >> to break again, and as Matthias pointed out there is a not a 
> >> well-established process for testing this (I try to test it manually 
> >> but don't always remember to; or sometimes I do test it, but throw up 
> >> my hands when it doesn't work because I don't want to hold up the 
> >> release any longer). 
> >>
> >> A big part of the problem is that the system for installing packages 
> >> is badly interwoven with the build system for Sage itself. There is a 
> >> good reason for this: If one of sagelib's build dependencies is 
> >> changed, it is necessary to rebuild sagelib. 
> >>
> >> For optional/experimental packages I think we should try to 
> >> disentangle them a bit better from the "normal" build system. They 
> >> really should be "drop-in" and not require a rebuild of sagelib. 
> >>
> >> Part of my original goals for developing the "DESTDIR" build system 
> >> was so that it would eventually be easier to build binary packages for 
> >> optional packages. I wanted to be able to use this on Windows, for 
> >> example, by allowing users to select optional packages by just 
> >> unpacking pre-built tarballs, but I never got around to materializing 
> >> that goal. Of course, if such a system did exist it should be 
> >> available for other platforms as well. 
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 9:00:22 AM UTC-6 Nathan Dunfield wrote: 
> >> >> 
> >> >> To what extent does installing optional packages "just work" with the 
> >> current binary 

Re: [sage-devel] Re: documentation of external packages, versionned online Sage doc

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 04:30:34PM -0800, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
[...]
> For a proposal for packaging of the documentation of Sage itself - please
> see https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29868 (pip-installable packages
> sagemath-doc-src, sagemath-doc-inventory, sagemath-doc-html,
> sagemath-doc-pdf) - comments and help with the implementation are welcome
> here too.

Regarding Sage's own documentation, a useful feature, while not related
to the release process, would be to keep online documentation of each
release, that is having:

https://doc.sagemath.org/VERSION/ for each release, and having
https://doc.sagemath.org/current/ pointing to the doc of the last
release.

Currently some links on the web (e.g. on ask.sagemath.org) are outdated
as the discussion does not correspond to the current state of the doc.

Ciao,
Thierry

> Matthias
>
>
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Help needed with adding user packages as optional/experimental packages

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Mon, Feb 08, 2021 at 10:42:59AM -0800, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
[...]
> As Vincent has pointed out, we currently do not use version
> constraints for
> these (downstream) user packages.

I think that if we do not provide explicit version of downstream
packages, we are going to run into troubles, as we can not expect users
to use latest Sagemath version when they install some downstream
package.

To take the previous example:

https://github.com/mkauers/ore_algebra/commit/8c678f9c70aee8df211c04211dd2f7e230a4770f

without versionning on our side, if a user tries to install ore_algebra
after 7 November 2017 while using 8.0, they would get import errors.

Note also that this downstream change was done during the preparation of
8.1 (that was released on 7 December 2017), so even up-to-date
non-developer users would have been running 8.0 at that time and
therefore get errors.

On Mon, Feb 08, 2021 at 01:17:34PM +0100, Vincent Delecroix wrote:
[...]
> $ cat ore_algebra/requirements.txt
> git+https://github.com/mkauers/ore_algebra@6826ac49b4cdf66a563449aced21a2fd1fd085c9#egg=ore_algebra
>
> If instead ore_algebra would properly release on PyPI, the
> sage side of things would be simpler.

I do not see how having ore_algebra in PyPI would fix the issue of not
providing downstream versions.

Ciao,
Thierry

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Help needed with adding user packages as optional/experimental packages

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Sun, Feb 07, 2021 at 04:49:23PM -0800, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> The first few user packages have been added in 9.3.beta7:
> ore_algebra, sage_flatsurf, admcycles, slabbe, surface_dynamics.

We should notice that, contrary to other packages, those packages should
be considered as downstream (not upstream), and this should be reflected
in our release process.

Indeed, their code get adapted after Sage changes, see e.g. (randomly
chosen examples):

https://github.com/mkauers/ore_algebra/commit/2d71b50ebad81e62432482facfe3f78cc4961c4f
https://github.com/mkauers/ore_algebra/commit/8c678f9c70aee8df211c04211dd2f7e230a4770f

For upstream packages (especially important ones), they should usually
be merged in the beginning of a new release (on beta[n] with small n),
so that incompatibilities could be reported and fixed before the
official release.

In the current case, it should be the opposite, after downstream adapted
their code to our changes, so that those packages are not broken for the
official release.

Hence, there should be a way to update the versions of such packages
during beta[-1] (the one before rc0), at least those packages should be
tagged "downstream" somewhere (e.g.  whithin SPKG.rst file or whatever),
so that someone could have a look before the rc.

While our naming of development releases is pretty poor (beta or rc), we
should perhaps indicate somewhere which intervals are reserved for
backward-incompatible changes, and so on.

Another question: what happens if at the end of a Sage release cycle,
the downstream package is still broken ? Shall we remove the package
from build/pkgs ? Shall we add a temporary patch within the spkg
directory ? Or add a "broken" keyword for the "type" file ?

Ciao,
Thierry


 
> On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 7:41:48 PM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> 
> > Meta-ticket https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/31164 proposes to add user 
> > packages, such as those listed at  
> > https://wiki.sagemath.org/SageMathExternalPackages, to the Sage 
> > distribution as "pip" packages. This has the following benefits:
> >
> >- They will be automatically included in our reference manual and Sage 
> >website (https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29655).
> >- We have GitHub Actions workflows in place 
> >(tox-optional.yml, tox-experimental.yml), which will automatically try 
> > to 
> >build the packages on each beta release. This provides continuous 
> >integration that will allow us to catch unintended breaking changes 
> > during 
> >the Sage development cycle.
> >
> > Help is needed with this task. 
> > - If a package listed at 
> > https://wiki.sagemath.org/SageMathExternalPackages is outdated (does not 
> > work with a current version of Sage), it will be helpful to add a note to 
> > the wiki page and to notify the package authors.
> > - If a package seems to work with current Sage, help by creating a ticket 
> > for the inclusion in Sage and list the ticket in meta-ticket 
> > https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/31164
> > - If a significant package is neither listed in build/pkgs/ nor in the 
> > wiki page, please add it. 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] lrcalc 2.0

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Sun, Feb 07, 2021 at 03:25:12PM +0100, Thierry Thomas wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> lrcalc has been upgraded to 2.0: see
> <https://bitbucket.org/asbuch/lrcalc/src/master/ChangeLog>

Here is a ticket for the upgrade: https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/31355

> Is it expected that Sage 9.3 support it, or is it safer to keep
> lrcalc-1.3?

It depends on whether it is ready on time. The API changed, hence the
Sage interface has to be updated.

Any help welcome.

Ciao,
Thierry


> Regards.
> -- 
> Th. Thomas.
> 
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[sage-devel] lrcalc 2.0

[Thierry Thomas]

Hello,

lrcalc has been upgraded to 2.0: see


Is it expected that Sage 9.3 support it, or is it safer to keep
lrcalc-1.3?

Regards.
-- 
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Re: [sage-devel] Use SymEngine as a symbolic mathematics backend for SAGE

[Thierry Dumont]

There was a message from B. Paisse some days ago, about C (++) and Julia 
for CAS.


May be this https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.06134v1.pdf
is interesting.

t.d.

Le 22/01/2021 à 15:07, Dima Pasechnik a écrit :

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 8:04 PM parisse  wrote:


Well, searching for "lisp infix notation" is not very convincing (unless I 
missed something?), compared to built-in infix support. You might prefer Lisp to C/C++, 
it's your choice, but I don't see any objective reason that one should stay away from 
C/C++. And Giac is a proof that one can actually write a CAS in C/C++, that compares very 
well with the Lisp-based CAS Maxima.


Maxima is ~40 years old with a bit of work done since then, but the
core is that old, as far as I know:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macsyma

As for staying away from C++,  most people who might be trying to do
something with supposedly state of the art library like boost,
would run away screaming, closely followed by 100 screens of error messages :-)
Or, now mostly gone (?), iterator_traits (my closest encounter with
C++, contributing to CGAL, 20 years ago, where these had to be
generated by a script for some classes, otherwise compilers kept
crashing...)






Le jeudi 21 janvier 2021 à 18:07:14 UTC+1, dim...@gmail.com a écrit :


On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 7:13 PM parisse  wrote:


As the author of a CAS, I can state that you need much more than 2 weeks to 
learn a programming language to make a CAS, and much much more if you want to 
be fast. Life is short, therefore choose your programming language carefully! I 
don't regret my choice for C (+ C++ STL and operator redefinition) made 20 
years ago, because C can interact with a lot of languages (including 
compilation to Javascript). If I had to choose today, I would perhaps choose 
Julia. Not Python, it's much too slow. I don't know for Lisp speed, but it's 
not a language I would choose anyway, I like to write e.g. a+b*c when I do 
algebraic computations in my source code.


There are macro packages for infix maths in Common Lisp, so this by no
means should be a deal-breaker for anyone.

Needless to say, C++ has its own can of worms, which anyone who tried
to used it might easily produce, as a reason to stay
away from it.



Le mercredi 20 janvier 2021 à 19:47:01 UTC+1, rjf a écrit :


I think you have to figure that there is a difference in productivity of people 
who just learned Python in high school and would really like to write a 
computer algebra system
versus people who know more mathematics, are comfortable spending 2 weeks 
learning lisp, spending ?? (weeks? months?) studying the state of the art in
computer algebra systems as evolved over 60 years, and want to contribute to 
advancing the art (rather than re-programming the easy stuff).
I am under the impression that learning python is a reasonable stepping stone 
to learning lisp.

As far as checking results for various systems, there is a category of CAS bugs 
that are syistem independent.
That is, they occur in many systems! Sometimes they depend on secretly dividing 
by zero, or doing something
that is invalid at a singularity. So "Maple and Mathematica and ... all agree" 
does not mean they are right!

I think my essential point previously is that rewriting easy stuff (in a 
different language) typically fails to push the frontier.



On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 5:54:51 AM UTC-8 kcrisman wrote:



As to the question of replacing backends, there is already a ticket (which I 
cannot find right now, my apologies) which started the process of seeing what 
doctests would fail if we went to Sympy as default. Presumably something 
similar could be done with this engine (I don't know if it is more for 
low-level symbolics or also things like integration).



In particular, the (very minimal) documentation (really an API is all) makes it 
seems more a replacement for things like Ginac (already in C++), not Maxima et 
al. I don't know if that would provide a noticeable speedup per se, though the 
SageManifolds ticket mentioned parallelization so perhaps it is better suited 
for that?


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Re: [sage-devel] How to review a ticket?

[Thierry]

Hi,

you could ask for a trac acount as explained in the developer guide:

https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/developer/trac.html#obtaining-an-account

Ciao,
Thierry


On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 06:55:33AM -0800, Siddharth Bhat wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> I'm trying to learn how to review Trac tickets,and am unfortunately failing 
> at it. 
> 
> I want to leave some comments on this file: 
> https://git.sagemath.org/sage.git/diff/src/sage/homology/finite_topological_spaces.py?id=fc4c726665c7bf25c83a7fae6f04420e19086d69
> 
> which corresponds to this trac ticket:
> https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30400#no3
> 
> but I can't find anything in the interface that lets me do so. I see that 
> the others have posted comments, such as this:
> 
> https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30400#comment:15
> 
> How do I post such a comment? 
> 
> Best,
> ~Siddharth
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: "Real Field" -> "Real Floating-point Field"

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 10:19:25AM -0700, Nils Bruin wrote:
> I like RealFloats and ComplexFloats as well; however, I think it's too 
> early to relinquish RR and CC. There's no "exact real field" presently and 
> if it is ever realized, it should probably be called ExactRealField or 
> something similar to stress that it is NOT what people generally expect it 
> to be for the coming 25 years at least (because programming and calculators 
> will continue to deal primarily with floats). Any implementation of 
> ExactRealField will need to prove itself over an extended time period and 
> in a variety of applications before we can propose it as a default choice.

The question is not about exact or inexact, not even about the
implementation of its elements (we can even imagine that RR is not a
parent anymore), it is about having a home for the abstraction of the
real field, in the mathematical sense. Its elements can not have an
exact representation anyway (if only for a cardinality reason). So, it
is not to replace an implementation with another, but to have something
that covers all existing representations.

Currently, we have the following behaviours:

sage: oo in RR
True

sage: NaN in RR
True

sage: RIF(0,1) in RR
False

and while i have no problem to see such behaviour for, say, RDF, i would
like RR to be, among other features to be discussed, a generic container
that will tell whether some Sage object represents a real number or not.

I have a pretty long list of doctests (and implementation) that an
abstraction of the genuine real field, as a container, should satisfy,
and the previous examples will not hold. However,

sage: RDF(1.1) in RR
True

will still hold, no worry about that !

Ciao,
Thierry


> Leave the default values of RR and CC to what they are until it's clear 
> that there's a uniformly better default for them.
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: "Real Field" -> "Real Floating-point Field"

[Thierry]

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 11:43:01AM +0100, John Cremona wrote:
> I like RealFloats (RF) and ComplexFloats (CF).  Since float is a type
> in both Python and C, they seem reasonable as names for a type/class
> in Sage too.  I can imagine many people wanting to predefine RR=RF and
> CC=CF to make their own code backward-compatible, but it seems to be
> to be a good thing to have the short names RF and CF to remind one
> that we are *not* using some idealised implementation of genuine real
> or complex numbers.

But then, how would you call the real double field (RD ?), the real ball
field (RB ?), the real interval field (RI ?), and so on ?

I like the idea that the genuine fields/rings have 2 letters as many people
use in their LaTeX newcommands : ZZ, QQ, AA, RR, CC

and their approximations use 3 letters RFF, RBF, RIF, ... (could be RFN,
RBN, RIN, or similar).

In any case, i am not sure we should promote the current implementation
of RR so much (MPRF), as RDF is much faster and allows tu use more
external libraries, and RBF is more reliable and as fast.

Ciao,
Thierry


> This is a big change, so we should make sure that many people have a
> chance to give their opinion.
> 
> John
> 
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 at 10:24, Samuel Lelievre  
> wrote:
> >
> > 2020-10-15 08:21:06 UTC, John Cremona:
> > >
> > > I was expecting someone more pedantic than me to point out that this set
> > > is not a field in the mathematical sense. Since this is a big change 
> > > anyway
> > > (at least to a lot of doctest outputs) should we think more carefully 
> > > about
> > > what we want to call RR? Instead of "Real floating-point field with x bits
> > > of precision" we could have "Real floating-point numbers with x bits of
> > > precision" perhaps. (With an implied "The set of" in front).
> >
> > Good point!
> >
> > I like "Real floating-point numbers with x bits of precision"
> > with short name RFN for real floating-point numbers.
> >
> > Or shorter: "RealFloats" -> "Real floats with x bits of precision",
> > short name RF for the standard one with 53 bits of precision.
> >
> > Consistency would dictate to rename and change the string representation
> > for all of the following:
> >
> > - ComplexField -> ComplexFloats
> > - RealField -> RealFloats
> >
> > - ComplexDoubleField -> ComplexDoubleFloats
> > - RealDoubleField -> RealDoubleFloats
> >
> > - ComplexBallField -> ComplexFloatBalls
> > - ComplexBallField -> RealFloatBalls
> >
> > - ComplexIntervalField -> ComplexFloatIntervals
> > - RealIntervalField -> RealFloatIntervals
> >
> > and maybe more sort-of-fields that can be listed using:
> > ```
> > sage: [g for g in globals() if 'ield' in g]
> > ```
> >
> > - ComplexLazyField -> ComplexLazyFloats?
> > - RealLazyField -> RealLazyFloats?
> >
> > - MPComplexField -> MPComplexFloats?
> >
> > What about pAdicField?
> >
> > Of course we can do things one at a time, but it's good to plan ahead
> > and maybe have a meta-ticket to keep track of what is done and what
> > needs to be done.
> >
> > Side remark: should ComplexIntervalFieldElement, FieldElement
> > and NumberFieldElement be removed from the global namespace?
> >
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: "Real Field" -> "Real Floating-point Field"

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 01:21:06AM -0700, John Cremona wrote:
> I was expecting someone more pedantic than me to point out that this set is 
> not a field in the mathematical sense.  Since this is a big change anyway 
> (at least to a lot of doctest outputs) should we think more carefully about 
> what we want to call RR?   Instead of "Real floating-point field with x 
> bits of precision" we could have "Real floating-point numbers with x bits 
> of precision" perhaps.  (With an implied "The set of" in front).


I hope i am not that pedantic, but this has been discussed 6 years ago
when i was asked to provide more details on the proposal of having a
genuine real field in Sage:

https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/17713#comment:3

However, i am currently not that shocked with the word "field", as there
are some notions of "pseudo fields" (perhaps even "quasi field"), where
axioms are satisfied for most tuples, though i would like Sage to know
which objects are genuine fields, and which objects are pseudo-fields.

Note also that in some algoritms, there are choices that depends on
whether the parent is a (pseudo-)field or not, now i am not sure that
considering such parents ony as a bunch of numbers is enough, even for
the user.

Perhaps "Real floating-point pseudofield with x bits of precision" ?

Ciao,
Thierry



> 
> John
> 
> On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 9:04:55 AM UTC+1 Kwankyu Lee wrote:
> 
> > +1 as well of course. A harder question is whether we are ready to 
> >> replace the Python names RealField and RR with RealFloatingField and 
> >> RFF, so that the names RealField and RR could be used for the genuine 
> >> real field. 
> >>
> >
> > I wonder if there is a real prospect that  the genuine real field is ever 
> > implemented. If not, then we lose the name RealField for good...
> >
> >  
> >
> 
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[sage-devel] Re: "Real Field" -> "Real Floating-point Field"

[Thierry Dumont]

Le 14/10/2020 à 20:48, Matthias Koeppe a écrit :
> On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 11:28:08 PM UTC-7, vdelecroix wrote:
> 
> I would like to discuss the patchbomb at
> 
>     https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/24523
> 
> 
> The ticket hopes to change the string representation from
> "Real Field with XX bits of precision" to "Real Floating-point
> field with XX bits of precision".
> 
>  
 +1

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<>

Re: [sage-devel] Re: "Real Field" -> "Real Floating-point Field"

[Thierry]

Hi,

+1 as well of course. A harder question is whether we are ready to
replace the Python names RealField and RR with RealFloatingField and
RFF, so that the names RealField and RR could be used for the genuine
real field.

Ciao,
Thierry


On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 02:13:29AM -0700, Michael Jung wrote:
> +1 from my side, too.
> 
> vdelecroix schrieb am Mittwoch, 14. Oktober 2020 um 08:28:08 UTC+2:
> 
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I would like to discuss the patchbomb at
> >
> > https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/24523
> >
> > The ticket hopes to change the string representation from
> > "Real Field with XX bits of precision" to "Real Floating-point
> > field with XX bits of precision".
> >
> > Rationale: it was quite unfortunate from the beginning that
> > RealField and ComplexField mean "floating-point arithmetic".
> > On the one hand, one would like to be able to work with the
> > (abstract) Parent modeling the real numbers (eg for coercions).
> > On the other hand, in the setting of computer algebra it is
> > very often much better to work with interval arithmetic or
> > balls rather than floating-point. The ticket is a small
> > step towards getting the genuine "RealField" standing for
> > the set of real numbers. See
> >
> > https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/17713
> >
> > I think this deserves an agreement from other developers! Any
> > comment very welcome.
> >
> > Best
> > Vincent
> >
> >
> 
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[sage-devel] libnauty: args inversed in spkg-configure.m4

[Thierry Thomas]

Hello,

I´m working on Sage-9.2.beta14, and I noticed that 2 args are switched
in AC_SEARCH_LIBS: densenauty is the function and nauty is the library:

--- build/pkgs/libnauty/spkg-configure.m4.orig  2020-10-02 15:26:33 UTC
+++ build/pkgs/libnauty/spkg-configure.m4
@@ -2,6 +2,6 @@ SAGE_SPKG_CONFIGURE([libnauty], [
   SAGE_SPKG_DEPCHECK([nauty], [
 dnl The library is actually installed by the nauty spkg.
 AC_CHECK_HEADER([nauty/nauty.h], [], [sage_spkg_install_libnauty=yes])
-AC_SEARCH_LIBS([nauty], [densenauty], [], [sage_spkg_install_libnauty=yes])
+AC_SEARCH_LIBS([densenauty], [nauty], [], [sage_spkg_install_libnauty=yes])
   ])
 ])

 Best regards.
-- 
Th. Thomas.

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[sage-devel] 9.2 beta 14

[Thierry Dumont]

On Ubuntu 20-04 after a make distclean:

-compilation ok.
-make ptestlong: all tests passed.

t.d.

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Re: [sage-devel] Build of 9.2beta14 failing on Ubuntu - Python 3.8.5

[Thierry Dumont]

Yes, readline has changed since a recent upgrade of Ubuntu (20-04.
make distclean
and rebuild will solve the problem (after a long compilation time).
t.d.

Le 02/10/2020 à 02:27, Kiran Kedlaya a écrit :
> I just tried to build 9.2beta14 on my Ubuntu laptop and am getting an
> error in python3-3.8.5 (the systemwide Py3 is 3.8.2, although maybe I
> should just wait a few days for Ubuntu to drop 20.10). 
> 
> The key line in the log seems to be
> 
> [python3-3.8.5] ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'readline'
> 
> even though readline-8.0 itself built successfully.
> 
> Kiran
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: unable to open some sobj-files computed on earlier versions of sage with sage9.1

[thierry]

Hi,

perhaps a poor man's approach that could be considered in the strategy
is to extend the ability of Sage to provide to the user a way to
regenerate from the interpreter the objects that it constructed, with
the sage_input function:

sage: M = random_matrix(ZZ,3,3) 

 
sage: sage_input(M) 

 
matrix(ZZ, [[1, -3, 1], [-3, 0, 1], [4, -3, -1]])

Such a non-binary "format" (a sequence of Sage commands) seems to be
more stable in the longer term, and if something got wrong due to
backward incomatibilities, one can still deal with it by hand.

Unfortunately, this method is not complete:

sage: ZZ['x'].random_element()  

 
4*x + 1
sage: sage_input(_) 

 
R. = ZZ[]
4*x + 1

but

sage: GF(9)['x'].random_element()
2*z2 + 2
sage: sage_input(_) 

 
ValueError: Can't convert 2*z2 + 2 to sage_input form

Ciao,
Thierry



On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 03:58:24PM +0200, E. Madison Bray wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 3:56 PM E. Madison Bray  wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 9:02 PM TB  wrote:
> > >
> > > One disadvantage of pickle is safety, in the computer security sense. See 
> > > the warning at [1] about it, that it is possible to execute arbitrary 
> > > code during unpickling. This of course also happens to be useful in Sage 
> > > [2].
> > >
> > > If it happens that your data can be (easily) represented as iterated 
> > > Python containers (tuples, lists, dicts or sets) containing strings, 
> > > integers or booleans, then a textual format can be a good fit. JSON, YAML 
> > > or even ast.literal_eval [3] sound appropriate. More complex objects are 
> > > indeed more complex to handle. At least for polynomials the parser at [4] 
> > > might help.
> > >
> > > JSON or YAML are interoperable, which is important if you would like to 
> > > use the data in another system. It does mean that doing something clever 
> > > with the data might still require porting code from Sage that handles the 
> > > data.
> >
> > I have suggested many times because of this that Sage needs a standard
> > interfacing for converting Sage Objects to JSON-compatible data
> > structures (which would have to be defined, preferably along with a
> > schema, for any and all types that want to support this).  Possibly
> > with some optional support for BSON for more efficient binary
> > representation of large objects.
> >
> > I would be happy to help with such an effort from the technical side,
> > but I'm not the best person to lead it since it cuts to the core of
> > the subject of mathematical data interchange, a subject on which there
> > are experts, and I am not one of them.
> >
> > But I really do wish we would de-emphasize the use of pickle for
> > saving Sage objects.  It's perfectly good for caching certain
> > computations and storing large computational results to disk for
> > near-future use, as well as for distribution over clusters and the
> > like.  But we need to make it very clear to users that this is *not*
> > an archival data format, while at the same time offering something
> > better that is.
> 
> P.S. I think it would be extremely cool if Sage adopted the ASDF file
> format for serializing Sage Objects, as it supports a mix of
> structured metadata and binary data, which would be useful for a broad
> range of purposes.  But I'm biased ;)
> https://asdf-standard.readthedocs.io/en/1.5.0/
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: https://wiki.sagemath.org/ReleaseTours/sage-9.2

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 02:09:10AM -0700, c.ed...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm one of the authors of 30243 <https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30243> on 
> the enumeration/manipulation of fully commutative elements in Coxeter 
> groups. I'd be happy to add a short section on it under Combinatorics, but 
> I'm not sure how to log in to the wiki. The help page says I can use my 
> trac account, but I log into trac through Github, and as such I have a 
> token instead of a password.

You should request a genuine (some people call it legacy) trac account,
see https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/developer/trac.html#obtaining-an-account

Ciao,
Thierry



> -- Chase
> 
> On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 3:08:05 PM UTC-6 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> 
> > On Saturday, August 8, 2020 at 11:10:17 AM UTC-7, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> >>
> >> Let's prepare the release tour for the upcoming 9.2 release by 
> >> collaborative editing.
> >>
> >> https://wiki.sagemath.org/ReleaseTours/sage-9.2
> >>
> >
> > Could someone contribute a brief exposition of the user-visible changes 
> > brought by the updates to Sphinx, IPython, the Jupyter notebook?
> >
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Adding support for discrete differential geometry for SAGE?

[Thierry]

Hi,

this looks great. One important point that might be missing in the
discussion, especially if you do not have any code written yet, would be
to review existing optimized libraries, that could be interfaced within
Sage, instead of reinventing the wheel, see e.g.
https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/tutorial/interfaces.html
https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/thematic_tutorials/cython_interface.html

To mention a few libraries of possible interest:

https://www.cgal.org/
https://polymake.org/
https://dgtal.org/

Ciao,
Thierry




On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:23:14PM -0700, Siddharth Bhat wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've posted two "meta-tickets" with list out the basic discrete 
> differential geometric objects I would be interested to add first. I tried 
> to model it after the SageManifolds meta-ticket 
> <https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18528>
> 
> 1. Discrete Exterior calculus 
> <https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30196#ticket>: 
> https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30196#ticket
> 2. Discrete Meshes and duals <https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30197#ticket>: 
> https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30197#ticket 
> 
> I'm not sure I did this right :) So, should I:
> 1. break out _each_ of the bullet points into a separate ticket
> 2. start working on the "most basic" of them? (For example, let's say 
> adding discrete k-forms)
> 3. Submit code, have it reviewed
> 4. Have code accepted
> 5. Pick new bullet point, goto step 2?
> 
> Thanks a lot,
> ~Siddharth
> 
> 
> On Monday, 20 July 2020 15:05:51 UTC+5:30, Eric Gourgoulhon wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Le lundi 20 juillet 2020 01:17:39 UTC+2, Travis Scrimshaw a écrit :
> >>
> >> Hi Siddharth,
> >>That sounds like a good idea.
> >>
> >
> > +1 !
> >
> > What you will need to do is create a number of tickets to add in the 
> >> corresponding functionality. Once you have a proposal (which you can ask 
> >> questions on said tickets), it will be reviewed, where suggestions and 
> >> comments will be given on possible design decisions.
> >>
> >
> > If not done already, have a look at the Sage Developer's Guide 
> > <https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/developer/>. FWIW, a kind of summary 
> > adapted to smooth manifolds development is here 
> > <https://sagemanifolds.obspm.fr/contrib.html>.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Eric.
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Apple on ARM

[Thierry Dumont]

Some weeks ago, there was a post on this list (or an other sage list)
where somebody said he succeeded compiling sage on a Raspberry 4... so...
t.

Le 23/06/2020 à 14:11, Dima Pasechnik a écrit :
> Sage used to work on ARM chips, we stopped testing on it due to lack of
> hardware in 2015 or so.
> 
> We can pick it up again.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 23 Jun 2020, 13:03 kcrisman,  > wrote:
> 
> See e.g.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/21/21298607/first-arm-mac-macbook-pro-imac-ming-chi-kuo-wwdc-2020
> 
> When Apple moved to Intel, there were definitely some impacts for
> Sage - obviously needing to provide two sets of binaries - but I
> wonder if maybe the Sage ecosystem is a lot more stable w.r.t.
> processors this time around (e.g. assembly code already available
> for major upstream packages).  Maybe it's so trivial that I am
> foolish for mentioning it, but I thought I would ask if anyone has
> thoughts on this, as I couldn't find anything on this forum about it
> yet.
> 
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> .
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: conditional install of optional package

[Thierry]

Hi,

thanks for the answer.

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 04:01:15PM +0100, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
[...]
> yes, this would install everything in  (assumning there
> are no contradicting options
> such as mpir vs gmp, no dependencies --- which is actually the biggest
> problem in this, as deps can't be easilty controlled with a plain list
> of packages--- etc), but would be slower than first building the
> string to call ./configure with,
> then calling configure once, and finally "make build" once.

I am not sure to understand: the build/pkgs/*/dependencies files are not
taken into account in that build process ? What wrong could happen with
dependencies ?

> It might fail at some point, but your loop might fail just as well, right?

Yes, i want the procedure to stop when there is a failure, while keeping
what was done until then, i do not want parallel build for optional
packages.

> yes, or, better if foo won't build you can
> 
> ./configure --disable-foo
> 
> to get rid of exactly the request to build foo.
> So in your loop you may have a check for the condition of
> `make build` and call
> ./configure --disable-${i}
> if it failed.
> 

OK, i will disable packages once they are built.

Ciao,
Thierry

> 
> there is also a funtionality of tox available fot testing things, but
> I am not familiar with it.
> 
> HTH
> Dima
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > Also, what should i do if i want to run self tests at the same time ? I
> > used to do:
> >
> > sage -i -c foo
> >
> > is there a ./configure replacement for that ?
> 
> no, but there is always
> 
> export SAGE_CHECK=yes
> 
> to effect package's self-tests
> 
> 
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Thierry
> >
> > [1]
> > https://trac.sagemath.org/query?keywords=~sdl=id=summary=status=type=priority=milestone=component=priority
> >
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: conditional install of optional package

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 08:46:42AM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> In general, to add a configure option, you can always do the following:
> 
>   ./configure $(./config.status --config) --enable-bar

Nice tip, tanks !

Thierry


> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: conditional install of optional package

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 09:51:20PM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> ./configure --enable-cbc && make

OK thanks. I notice that if i do

   ./configure --enable-foo
   ./configure --enable-bar
   make build

it seems that only bar is installed, right ?


If i want to make a progressive loop over packages, i should iterate
like that :

for i in  ; do
/configure --enable-${i}
make build
done

Correct ?

Note that i make checkpoints, since i am used encounter problems in
building/testing packages for SDL (which is 32bit) [1], and i did not
build SDL for a while so i am expecting some issues.  Hence, i can not
do a single run like:

./configure --enable-foo --enable-bar [...]


Now, since ./configure --enable-foo seems to modify the following bunch
of files:

./build/make/Makefile-auto
./build/make/Makefile
./build/bin/sage-build-env-config
./build/pkgs/sage_conf/src/setup.cfg
./build/pkgs/sage_conf/src/sage_conf.py
./logs/pkgs/config.log
./config.status
./src/bin/sage-env-config
./src/Makefile

should i end with a bare 

./configure

to let those file return in a kind of "default state" ?


Also, what should i do if i want to run self tests at the same time ? I
used to do:

sage -i -c foo

is there a ./configure replacement for that ?

Ciao,
Thierry

[1]
https://trac.sagemath.org/query?keywords=~sdl=id=summary=status=type=priority=milestone=component=priority

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[sage-devel] conditional install of optional package

[Thierry]

Hi,

i am on the way to build a version of Sage Debian Live for 9.1. I would
like to benefit from the spkg-configure.m4 feature when installing
optional packages, as much as possible.

Say, i want to install cbc, looking at build/pkgs/cbc/distros/debian.txt
i install coinor-cbc coinor-libcbc-dev from the distro.

However, when i do 

sage -i cbc

it still installs cbc from Sage spkg, which i would like to avoid. What
is the command that installs cbc (say) only if the distro replacements
are not installed on the system ?

Ciao,
Thierry

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Re: [sage-devel] Physics related tutorials

[Thierry]

Dear Furkan,

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 05:34:36AM -0700, Furkan Semih Dündar wrote:
> Dear All,
> 
> My name is Furkan Semih Dündar.
> 
> I am a new member of the group and a physicist in Turkey. So I would like 
> to contribute physics related tutorials to the Sage web page.
> 
> The topics may include classical mechanics (Lagrangian and Hamiltonian), 
> quantum mechanics (matrix mechanics and the Schrödinger equation), General 
> relativity (if I figure out how to do tensor calculus on Sage) and so on.

A good starting point seems to be https://sagemanifolds.obspm.fr/

There are already some tutorials with explicit examples there, see the
"Examples" section. If you have questions, you could also ask them on
https://ask.sagemath.org/questions/

> I downloaded the source code for the version 9.1 and compiled it last night 
> on Fedora 32.
> 
> Are there any suggestions on how to organize the tutorials? For example 
> should I open a separate topic on physics or include the physics related 
> applications on math related topics? (For example classical mechanics in 
> differential equations?)

It really depends on the content, i would suggest to first write the
tutorials you have in mind, and then see where they fit best
(sagemathfold webpage, wiki, thematic tutorials, homepage of some
lecture, etc).

Ciao,
Thierry


> Best wishes,
> Furkan.
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Packaging Sage?

[Thierry Thomas]

Le dim. 10 mai 20 à 16:02:51 +0200, Julien Puydt 
 écrivait :

> > TL;TR: Packagers, how do you deal with Sage to package it for your
> > Linux distribution (or *BSD system)?
> 
> 
> For Debian, we use our packages as much as possible ; the repository
> can be seen here:
> 
> https://salsa.debian.org/science-team/sagemath

Thanks Julien and Dima! I did not find the group sage-packaging, and
I´ll check the Debian pages.
-- 
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[sage-devel] Packaging Sage?

[Thierry Thomas]

Hello,

TL;TR: Packagers, how do you deal with Sage to package it for your Linux
distribution (or *BSD system)?

Details:

Sage has been ported to FreeBSD many years ago (4.8), but now the port
is lagging and no more packages are built; I'm trying to fix it.

Problem: on FreeBSD, packages are built (by a porter or in the
compilation farm) as a regular user, and installed in a staging
directory (DESTDIR); then the package is installed as root in the final
$PREFIX (ldconfig and so on are executed).

The naming may differ, but many packaging systems have a similar
mechanism.

But Sage cannot be built with this method: the global install target is
a no-op, and every sub-package is built and installed during the build
target, under $SAGE_LOCAL, and everything is built relatively to this
directory. If you try to move the resulting bits to another directory,
it becomes unusable.

$SAGE_DESTDIR is handled, but does not solve this problem.

A first way to deal with it is to use as many system packages as
possible (see #27330): Sage´s libraries built around a system package
are safe.

For example, with the stock sage-9.1.rc3, when setting SAGE_LOCAL to my
staging directory, these errors are emitted for cvxopt:

Error: 'lib/python3.7/site-packages/cvxopt/umfpack.so' is referring to 
/usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage
Error: 'lib/python3.7/site-packages/cvxopt/base.so' is referring to 
/usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage
Error: 'lib/python3.7/site-packages/cvxopt/amd.so' is referring to 
/usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage
Error: 'lib/python3.7/site-packages/cvxopt/misc_solvers.so' is referring to 
/usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage
Error: 'lib/python3.7/site-packages/cvxopt/blas.so' is referring to 
/usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage
Error: 'lib/python3.7/site-packages/cvxopt/gsl.so' is referring to 
/usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage
Error: 'lib/python3.7/site-packages/cvxopt/cholmod.so' is referring to 
/usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage
Error: 'lib/python3.7/site-packages/cvxopt/glpk.so' is referring to 
/usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage
Error: 'lib/python3.7/site-packages/cvxopt/lapack.so' is referring to 
/usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage
Error: 
'lib/python3.7/site-packages/sage/numerical/backends/cvxopt_sdp_backend.so' is 
referring to /usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage
Error: 'lib/python3.7/site-packages/sage/numerical/backends/cvxopt_backend.so' 
is referring to /usr/ports/math/sage/work/stage

When using cvxopt from a system package (see #29665), these errors are
resolved. Unfortunately, even if the proposed method seems OK from my
packager´s POV, it seems that this is not the way to go: see #29023.

Several interesting propositions exist in #29133 (#21566), and things
like #29653 are also helping, but these are middle or long term goals.

And so my initial question: how do you package the actual releases? (9.0
or 9.1)

Many thanks for reading and for your feedback!
-- 
Th. Thomas.

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Re: [sage-devel] Online SageDays on the occasion of the 9.1 release?

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, May 05, 2020 at 12:49:33PM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> Would people be interested in some Zoom SageDays on the occasion of the 
> upcoming 9.1 release?

There is a similar open proposal for days109 :
https://wiki.sagemath.org/days109

That said, i am -1 for zoom.

Ciao,
Thierry



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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Want to add generalised Newton's method for solving a nonlinear systems of equations to Sage

[Thierry Dumont]

Hello,

The question is : what sort of problem do you want to solve ? with what
method ?

Is this a pure Newton-(Raphson) method?

A) If yes:
 1) If you compute in RDF floats (that is: your machine floating points
  numbers, aka "double" in C), the best you have to do is to use the
scipy implementation, and hope (like always with Newton method) that it
will converge. It will also be slow, because the F and DF functions will
be coded in pure python (maybe, this will not be a problem if you want
to solve small problems). I think there is no need to add a new method
for RDF. May be creating an optimized method (using cython ?) could be
interesting.

See:
https://docs.scipy.org/doc/scipy/reference/generated/scipy.optimize.newton.html
for the scipy implementation.

 2) If you want to compute in an other set of numbers, there is nothing
(as far as I know) in Sage. For example, the Newton method can be
implemented un interval arithmetic (RealIntervalField or RealBallField).
But implementing something a bit generic is certainly not so easy.

B) If no:
That is to say you are interested by implementing a generalized Newton,
or quasi Newton method, something like that...
These methods are very specialized, and I am not sure it will be an
useful tool. But I can be wrong.

Yours,

Thierry.



Le 02/05/2020 à 00:28, Daniel Khodabakhsh a écrit :
> Sorry forgot to give details on the algorithm I want to add.
> 
> Here's a Wikipedia link o
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_method#Nonlinear_systems_of_equations>n
> the subject.
> 
> To summarise, it's an iterative numerical method, similar
> to sage.numerical.optimize.find_root
> <http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/numerical/sage/numerical/optimize.html#sage.numerical.optimize.find_root>
>  but
> whose usage would be closer to sage.symbolic.relation.solve
> <http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/reference/calculus/sage/symbolic/relation.html#sage.symbolic.relation.solve>.
> 
> Not sure if google groups supports LaTeX but here's a try:
> $$x_{n+1} = x_{n} - J_F(x_n)^{-1}F(x_n)$$
> 
> On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 3:09:34 PM UTC-7, Daniel Khodabakhsh wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have a generalised implementation of Newton's method for solving a
> nonlinear system of equations that I want to add to Sage.
> This would be my first potential contribution so I had a few
> questions before I can move forward.
> 
> Questions #1:
> The reason I wrote an implementation was because I couldn't find
> this algorithm in Sage. Before I proceed, could someone confirm that
> this indeed doesn't already exist?
> 
> Questions #2:
> If it really isn't part of Sage yet, which module should I add this to?
> 
> Once I get this information I'll work on integrating it into the
> recommended module and create a new ticket on https://trac.sagemath.org/
> 
> If I have the process wrong please let me know!
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Rounding in Sage

[Thierry]

By the way, an excellent ressource to teach those kind of things and
check carefully what happens is the sign_mantissa_exponent method:

sage: a = RR(1.1)
sage: a
1.10
sage: a.sign_mantissa_exponent()
(1, 4953959590107546, -52)

Ciao,
Thierry




On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 05:34:44PM +0200, Marc Mezzarobba wrote:
> Hi Simon,
> 
> Simon King wrote:
> > According to IEEE 754, the default rounding mode for floating-point
> > operations is "round half to even". However, in examples it seems that
> > the rounding roule in RR is: "round half away from zero if the total
> > number of decimal digits in the result is odd and towards zero if the
> > total number of decimal digits of the result is even
> 
> I don't think I'm able to provide a complete answer, but here a a few 
> elements.
> 
> In principle, I think both RR and RDF should comply with IEEE-754 
> rounding rules (in the case of RDF, provided your platform does). In 
> particular, simply converting a rational number to a certain RealField 
> should (as far as I understand) round it to that field's precision 
> according to that field's rounding mode.
> 
> However, the examples you posted to sage-support, e.g.,
> 
> sage: round(3.55, ndigits=1)
> 3.5
> sage: round(3.555, ndigits=2)
> 3.56
> 
> test much more than that. First, the round() toplevel function is a huge 
> mess, see #25827 for some observations about it. Second, when you write 
> 3.55, the preparser does not turn that into code that creates a 
> RealNumber. An intermediate type called RealLiteral is used, with its 
> own “features” related to rounding, see in particular #15542. Third, 
> while any binary floating-point number can in principle be represented 
> exactly in decimal, Sage sometimes tries to be clever when displaying 
> floating-point numbers, which can involve rounding them again, see in 
> particular the docstring of RealNumber.str().
> 
> Hope this helps...
> 
> -- 
> Marc
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Rounding in Sage

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 02:10:28PM -, Simon King wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> A few days ago, I asked on sage-support about rounding in Sage. But
> since there was no answer and since it is relevant to my teaching in the
> upcoming semester, let me repost here (with modifications).

An appropriate place seems to be : https://ask.sagemath.org/questions/

> According to IEEE 754, the default rounding mode for floating-point
> operations is "round half to even". However, in examples it seems that
> the rounding roule in RR is: "round half away from zero if the total
> number of decimal digits in the result is odd and towards zero if the
> total number of decimal digits of the result is even". Does that conform
> to an established standard?
> 
> For teaching, it would be nice to have a customisable rounding function
> that in particular allows rounding for different bases (binary, decimal,
> etc), and allows to chose different rules (always round to 0, always
> round away from 0, always round to +infty, always round to -infty,
> round half to 0, round half away from 0, round half to +infty, round
> half to -infty, round half to even, round half to odd, round half
> alternatingly to 0 and away from 0, do the rounding in RR, ...).
>
> Is there such function in Sage? Otherwise I would just write a custom
> function for my course.

RR is a shortcut for RealField(), but the RealField function has a `rnd`
option, see:

sage: RealField?

Ciao,
Thierry


> Best regards,
> Simon
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Sage on FreeBSD

[Thierry Thomas]

Hello,

A work-in-progress has been proposed in the FreeBSD Phabricator at

https://reviews.freebsd.org/D24195

Its aim is to upgrade the actual port to 9.0.

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Re: [sage-devel] nt.sagenb.org and sagenb.org

[Thierry]

Hi,

what i can do is first to keep a backup of those files.

For information: the math laboratory of Orsay (Paris 11) is offering a
VM with 1TB of disk space dedicated to Sage backup. I am not member of
that university, but i have admin permissions on that box. Currently,
there is a daily backup of ask.sagemath.org and a fixed backup of the
former files.sagemath.org

We could set up other backups (trac, wiki, etc), but we need an ssh
acces for that.

Ciao,
Thierry



On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 12:17:16PM -0700, kcrisman wrote:
> 
> 
> On Monday, March 9, 2020 at 1:46:05 PM UTC-4, Thierry 
> (sage-googlesucks@xxx) wrote:
> >
> > Hi, 
> >
> > we should do something with those file, since there are very good ideas 
> > in there. 
> >
> > How large is the whole nt.sagenb.org + sagenb.org data ? 
> >
> > Ciao, 
> >
> 
> 
> I know that the public sagenb.org worksheets live in a Cocalc project that 
> has occasionally been edited by a number of people; William can undoubtedly 
> give you access. 
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: sagelib does not compile : /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -larb

[Thierry]

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 11:25:25AM -0700, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
> https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29287 fixes it.

It worked, thanks !

Thierry


> 
> On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 12:51:17 PM UTC-4, Thierry 
> (sage-googlesucks@xxx) wrote:
> >
> > Hi, 
> >
> > for the first time in a while, i did a "make distclean" to test the 
> > `spkg-configure.m4` feature. I am running a pretty standard Debian 
> > buster with x86_64 arch. 
> >
> > I installed all dependencies listed in 
> > $SAGE/src/doc/en/installation/debian.txt and 
> > $SAGE/src/doc/en/installation/debian-optional.txt 
> >
> > I ran ./confiure and make 
> >
> > However, i can not compile sagelib anymore, i get some : 
> >
> > [sagelib-9.1.beta8] /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -larb 
> > [sagelib-9.1.beta8] collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status 
> >
> > The full log can be found at : 
> > https://tmpsage.metelu.net/sagelib-9.1.beta8.log 
> >
> > What is wrong ? 
> >
> > Ciao, 
> > Thierry 
> >
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] sagelib does not compile : /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -larb

[Thierry]

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 01:42:23AM +0800, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 12:51 AM Thierry
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > for the first time in a while, i did a "make distclean" to test the
> > `spkg-configure.m4` feature. I am running a pretty standard Debian
> > buster with x86_64 arch.
> >
> > I installed all dependencies listed in
> > $SAGE/src/doc/en/installation/debian.txt and
> > $SAGE/src/doc/en/installation/debian-optional.txt
> >
> > I ran ./confiure and make
> >
> > However, i can not compile sagelib anymore, i get some :
> >
> > [sagelib-9.1.beta8] /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -larb
> > [sagelib-9.1.beta8] collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
> >
> > The full log can be found at :
> > https://tmpsage.metelu.net/sagelib-9.1.beta8.log
> >
> > What is wrong ?
> a known bug. See https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29365

Thanks, i was looking for the "-larb" string in trac without success.

Ciao,
Thierry


> >
> > Ciao,
> > Thierry
> >
> >
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[sage-devel] sagelib does not compile : /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -larb

[Thierry]

Hi,

for the first time in a while, i did a "make distclean" to test the
`spkg-configure.m4` feature. I am running a pretty standard Debian
buster with x86_64 arch.

I installed all dependencies listed in
$SAGE/src/doc/en/installation/debian.txt and
$SAGE/src/doc/en/installation/debian-optional.txt

I ran ./confiure and make

However, i can not compile sagelib anymore, i get some :

[sagelib-9.1.beta8] /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -larb
[sagelib-9.1.beta8] collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status

The full log can be found at :
https://tmpsage.metelu.net/sagelib-9.1.beta8.log

What is wrong ?

Ciao,
Thierry


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Re: [sage-devel] nt.sagenb.org and sagenb.org

[Thierry]

Hi,

we should do something with those file, since there are very good ideas
in there.

How large is the whole nt.sagenb.org + sagenb.org data ?

Ciao,
Thierry



On Mon, Mar 09, 2020 at 10:05:49AM -0700, William Stein wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Somebody asked me about a link to a public notebook on the long-gone server
> "nt.sagenb.org" at
> 
> https://mathoverflow.net/questions/54255/upper-bounds-for-ranks-of-modular-jacobians
> 
> 
> so I tracked down the files for nt.sagenb.org.  If anybody is interested in
> converting the 175 published files
> from nt.sagenb.org to sage worksheets (or Jupyter notebooks) and publishing
> them somewhere
> (e.g., on share.cocalc.com and github.com), let me know and I'll give you
> access.
> 
> I also still own the domain name sagenb.org, so if somebody wanted to put
> in some effort they could even
> make all the old sagenb.org links do something sensible.
> 
> Anyway, volunteer(s) welcome, since I don't have the bandwidth to do this
> all myself, but I do know where
> all the data is...
> 
>  -- William
> 
> -- 
> William (http://wstein.org)
> 
> -- 
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Buiding sage on a Raspberry Pi 4B

[Thierry Dumont]

I wanted to say "...have NO spool ..."

Apologize.

t.d.

Le 31/12/2019 à 19:10, Thierry Dumont a écrit :
>
> Are you sure you don't have a problem with the size of the ram ? You
> certainly have spool virtual memory partition.
>
> I have run some programs on a PI (3) (not Sage), and when the memory
> was full, I have got some segmentation faults (this should not happen,
> but..). This was on raspbian, two years ago.
>
> Yours,
>
> t.d.
>
> Le 31/12/2019 à 11:36, Jaap Spies a écrit :
>> I did run the failing tests! This is really frustrating.
>>
>>
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings/tests.py # Killed due to
>> segmentation fault NOW: All test passed!!
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_rational_field.py # Killed due
>> to segmentation fault NOW: All test passed!!
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/combinat/ncsf_qsym/ncsf.py # Killed due to
>> segmentation fault NOW: All test passed!!
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/structure/coerce_dict.pyx # 1 failure
>> len(LE) Expected 1 Got: 50 
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/modular/modform_hecketriangle/abstract_space.py # Killed due
>> to segmentation fault NOW: All test passed!!
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/modform/cuspidal_submodule.py #
>> Timed out  NOW: All test passed!!  in NB 51.16 seconds
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/arithgroup/congroup_gammaH.py #
>> Timed out total time 1832.3 seconds NOW: All test passed in 11.74 seconds
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/combinat/designs/evenly_distributed_sets.pyx  # Timed out
>> NOW:  All test passed in 8.11 seconds
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/modform/tests.py # Times out
>> 1822.7 seconds NOW: All test passed in 4.12 seconds 
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/sets/set.py # Times out 1821.5 seconds 
>> NOW: All test passed in 2.08 seconds
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/misc/weak_dict.pyx  # 11 doctests failed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/cpython/dict_del_by_value.pyx # 1 doctest
>> failed 
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2019 at 10:58:38 AM UTC+1, Jaap Spies wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, December 30, 2019 at 11:21:34 PM UTC+1, Jaap Spies wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll make a bash script to do the tests stand alone.
>>
>>
>>
>> bash test_errors_rc1 >> err.log 2>&1 &
>>
>> Resume:
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings/tests.py # Killed due to
>> segmentation fault 
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_rational_field.py # Killed
>> due to segmentation fault 
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/rings/function_field/function_field.py  # All tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/schemes/cyclic_covers/cycliccover_finite_field.py  # All
>> tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/combinat/sf/macdonald.py  # All tests
>> passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/combinat/ncsf_qsym/ncsf.py # Killed
>> due to segmentation fault 
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/algebras/lie_algebras/classical_lie_algebra.py  # All
>> tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/rings/function_field/function_field_valuation.py  # All
>> tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings/number_field/number_field.py  #
>> All tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/geometry/cone.py  # All tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/modular/btquotients/pautomorphicform.py  # All tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/arith/misc.py  # All tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/graphs/strongly_regular_db.pyx  # All
>> tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/structure/coerce_dict.pyx # 1 failure
>> len(LE) Expected 1 Got: 50 
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/modular/modform_hecketriangle/abstract_space.py # Killed
>> due to segmentation fault 
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/modform/find_generators.py  #
>> All tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/modform/cuspidal_submodule.py
>> # Timed out  
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/schemes/toric/chow_group.py  # All
>> tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long 
>> src/sage/groups/matrix_gps/finitely_generated.py  # All tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings/function_field/ideal.py  # All
>> tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/misc/functional.py  # All tests passed
>> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Buiding sage on a Raspberry Pi 4B

[Thierry Dumont]

Are you sure you don't have a problem with the size of the ram ? You
certainly have spool virtual memory partition.

I have run some programs on a PI (3) (not Sage), and when the memory was
full, I have got some segmentation faults (this should not happen,
but..). This was on raspbian, two years ago.

Yours,

t.d.

Le 31/12/2019 à 11:36, Jaap Spies a écrit :
> I did run the failing tests! This is really frustrating.
>
>
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings/tests.py # Killed due to segmentation
> fault NOW: All test passed!!
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_rational_field.py # Killed due to
> segmentation fault NOW: All test passed!!
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/combinat/ncsf_qsym/ncsf.py # Killed due to
> segmentation fault NOW: All test passed!!
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/structure/coerce_dict.pyx # 1 failure
> len(LE) Expected 1 Got: 50 
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/modular/modform_hecketriangle/abstract_space.py # Killed due
> to segmentation fault NOW: All test passed!!
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/modform/cuspidal_submodule.py #
> Timed out  NOW: All test passed!!  in NB 51.16 seconds
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/arithgroup/congroup_gammaH.py #
> Timed out total time 1832.3 seconds NOW: All test passed in 11.74 seconds
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/combinat/designs/evenly_distributed_sets.pyx  # Timed out
> NOW:  All test passed in 8.11 seconds
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/modform/tests.py # Times out 1822.7
> seconds NOW: All test passed in 4.12 seconds 
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/sets/set.py # Times out 1821.5 seconds 
> NOW: All test passed in 2.08 seconds
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/misc/weak_dict.pyx  # 11 doctests failed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/cpython/dict_del_by_value.pyx # 1 doctest
> failed 
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 31, 2019 at 10:58:38 AM UTC+1, Jaap Spies wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, December 30, 2019 at 11:21:34 PM UTC+1, Jaap Spies wrote:
>
>
>
> I'll make a bash script to do the tests stand alone.
>
>
>
> bash test_errors_rc1 >> err.log 2>&1 &
>
> Resume:
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings/tests.py # Killed due to
> segmentation fault 
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_rational_field.py # Killed
> due to segmentation fault 
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings/function_field/function_field.py 
> # All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/schemes/cyclic_covers/cycliccover_finite_field.py  # All
> tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/combinat/sf/macdonald.py  # All tests
> passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/combinat/ncsf_qsym/ncsf.py # Killed due
> to segmentation fault 
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/algebras/lie_algebras/classical_lie_algebra.py  # All
> tests passed
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/rings/function_field/function_field_valuation.py  # All
> tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings/number_field/number_field.py  #
> All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/geometry/cone.py  # All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/modular/btquotients/pautomorphicform.py  # All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/arith/misc.py  # All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/graphs/strongly_regular_db.pyx  # All
> tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/structure/coerce_dict.pyx # 1 failure
> len(LE) Expected 1 Got: 50 
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/modular/modform_hecketriangle/abstract_space.py # Killed
> due to segmentation fault 
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/modform/find_generators.py  #
> All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/modform/cuspidal_submodule.py #
> Timed out  
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/schemes/toric/chow_group.py  # All
> tests passed
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/groups/matrix_gps/finitely_generated.py  # All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings/function_field/ideal.py  # All
> tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/misc/functional.py  # All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/rings/number_field/totallyreal_rel.py 
> # All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/hypergeometric_motive.py  # All
> tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/categories/loop_crystals.py  # All
> tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/algebras/iwahori_hecke_algebra.py  #
> All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/schemes/curves/projective_curve.py  #
> All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/modular/overconvergent/genus0.py  # All
> tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  src/sage/combinat/permutation.py  # All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/rings/number_field/number_field_ideal.py  # All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long 
> src/sage/combinat/designs/orthogonal_arrays_find_recursive.pyx  #
> All tests passed
> ./sage -t --long  

Re: [sage-devel] Simple integral raises AttributeError

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Wed, Dec 04, 2019 at 07:38:34AM -0800, Eric Gourgoulhon wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In Sage 9.0.beta8 we have
> 
> sage: a = var('a')
> sage: integrate(1/(x^4 + x^2 + a), x)
> ...
> AttributeError: 'RootSum' object has no attribute '_sage_'
> 
> The same error occurs in Sage 8.9, but not in Sage 8.8 (and below). In Sage 
> 8.8, we have instead:
> 
> sage: a = var('a')
> sage: integrate(1/(x^4 + x^2 + a), x)
> integrate(1/(x^4 + x^2 + a), x)
> 
> Note that RootSum is a SymPy object. Actually, in Sage 9.0.beta8, forcing 
> the algorithm to 'maxima' yields the same result as in Sage 8.8:
> 
> sage: integrate(1/(x^4 + x^2 + a), x, algorithm='maxima')
> integrate(1/(x^4 + x^2 + a), x)
> 
> So it seems that since Sage 8.9, when integrate() is not capable to find an 
> answer via Maxima, it tries SymPy but is not capable to translate the 
> result back to Sage. I could not find a ticket about this. Shall I open one?

For what it worth, the change was done at
https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/27958

Ciao,
Thierry


> Eric. 
> 
> PS: for the record, a primitive of 1/(x^4 + x^2 + a) is
> 
> sage: b = sqrt(1 - 4*a)
> sage: f = sqrt(2)/b*(arctan(sqrt(2)*x/sqrt(1 - b))/sqrt(1 - b)  - 
> arctan(sqrt(2)*x/sqrt(1 + b))/sqrt(1 + b))
> 
> as we can check:
> 
> sage: diff(f, x).simplify_full()
> 1/(x^4 + x^2 + a)
> 
> 
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Re: [sage-devel] Request for comments: add a "domain=" option to symbolic integration methods/functions

[Thierry]

Hi,

On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 04:41:20PM -0800, rjf wrote:
> I mentioned in answer to another thread about Maxima/domain/integration
> the caution that this is likely missing the point.
> Setting a domain or passing this setting to Maxima is not a solution.
> It is likely a symptom that you are making a mathematical error.
> 
> quoting in part..
> 
> Since log() is in general multivalued, any answer that
> ignores this possibility may fall into a trap.  Setting a domain
> to something or other does not necessarily avoid the trap.
> An example that is simpler and perhaps reminiscent of this
> kind of error is to assert that   sqrt(x^2) is x  or abs(x), when
> YOU KNOW there are UNDENIABLY (except if x=0)  TWO square roots,  x, -x.
> Even if you know that x is positive,  there are still two
> square roots. sqrt(9) has 2 values.
> 
>   Unless you want
> to define sqrt as something else. ..
> 
>  end quote..
> 
> Maybe as another illustration of how blunt an instrument is
> the "domain" declaration, consider  that you have computed
> a value for s, which is supposed to be 1, but because of a
> numerical roundoff, comes out as 0.9...
> computing z :=sqrt(s-1), which should be 0, turns out to be
> complex.   What do you really want to do?   Are you OK
> with computing w:= z-z  which is real, but whose computation
> wandered very slightly into the complex domain?
> 
> 
> The use of declarations for integration results is probably
> an attempt to react to naivety or stubbornness based
> on "if my freshman calculus teacher said XXX and you
> said YYY  then you are wrong".  Leading to (for example)
> spewing out log (abs(...))  instead of log(...), and other mathematically
> logically subtle errors caused by the complaint,  "But I haven't learned 
> about
> sqrt(-1) so that can't occur in the answer to any questions
> that I ask."
> 
> Perspective:  you can diddle with trying to set domains
> "right" but you have probably missed the boat in the
> system design and are unlikely to be able to patch it.
> This issue was sort of understood in, roughly, 1974
> by the people working on Macsyma, who figured there
> was not the time or money and maybe not the smarts
> to do a new design.  Mostly subsequently, other systems
> were built that more-or-less duplicated the design that
> we thought was not going to work.  It is possible, even likely, to
> design a system that works just fine for algebra, but
> doesn't work for complex analysis.  (just look up the
> grad course in your college catalog and see if you can
> do the homework problems using Sage.)

In case someone would like to give a try, could you please provide some
details of what would have been a good design ?

Ciao,
Thierry


> Sorry for being such a pessimist, but some of us have
> been there.
> 
> Regards
> 
> RJF
> 
> 
> On Friday, November 29, 2019 at 3:46:59 PM UTC-8, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> >
> > On 11/29/19 2:01 PM, Emmanuel Charpentier wrote: 
> > > Dear list, 
> > > 
> > > We have a non inconsiderable stock of tickets whose analysis ends up 
> > > with someting amounting to "bug due the domain:complex option in 
> > > Maxima", and no solution in view. 
> >
> > Which tickets? Are they all integration? 
> >
> >
> > > Couldn't we work around this problem by offering a "domain=" option 
> > > (default value =complex") which, when set, would wrap the call to 
> > > Maxima's library in a pair of Maxima statements setting (temporarily) 
> > > "domain:real" ? A "try: ... except: ... finally:..." statement would 
> > > probably be the right way to do it. 
> > > 
> >
> > I added Expression.simplify_real() to do this during simplification, so 
> > the sketchy domain-twiddling code is there for the taking. 
> >
> 
> -- 
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Re: [sage-devel] building Sage docs on small VMs

[Thierry]

Hi,


On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 01:00:17PM +, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> How does one switch off multiprocessing in docbuild?
> (it's ludicrous not being able to build docs on a VM with 2GB of memory)

Not an answer but a workaround: to build Sage doc for SDL on
pentium3-emulated VM, i do:

   false ; while [ ! ${?} = 0 ] ; do make doc ; done

Ciao,
Thierry


> [dochtml] [reference] valuations: 1 todos, 14 index, 1495
> citations, 13 modules
> [dochtml] [reference] ... done (483 todos, 2097 index, 1506 citations,
> 2047 modules)
> [dochtml] [reference] preparing documents... skipping loading of indexes... 
> done
> [dochtml] [reference] The inventory files are in
> local/share/doc/sage/inventory/en/reference.
> [dochtml] Build finished. The built documents can be found in
> /home/dimpase/sage/local/share/doc/sage/inventory/en/reference
> [dochtml] Building reference manual, second pass.
> [dochtml]
> [dochtml] Error building the documentation.
> [dochtml] Traceback (most recent call last):
> [dochtml]   File "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/runpy.py",
> line 174, in _run_module_as_main
> [dochtml] "__main__", fname, loader, pkg_name)
> [dochtml]   File "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/runpy.py",
> line 72, in _run_code
> [dochtml] exec code in run_globals
> [dochtml]   File
> "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage_setup/docbuild/__main__.py",
> line 2, in 
> [dochtml] main()
> [dochtml]   File
> "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage_setup/docbuild/__init__.py",
> line 1693, in main
> [dochtml] builder()
> [dochtml]   File
> "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage_setup/docbuild/__init__.py",
> line 332, in _wrapper
> [dochtml] getattr(get_builder(document), name)(*args, **kwds)
> [dochtml]   File
> "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage_setup/docbuild/__init__.py",
> line 526, in _wrapper
> [dochtml] build_many(build_ref_doc, L)
> [dochtml]   File
> "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage_setup/docbuild/__init__.py",
> line 280, in build_many
> [dochtml] _build_many(target, args, processes=NUM_THREADS)
> [dochtml]   File
> "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage_setup/docbuild/utils.py",
> line 257, in build_many
> [dochtml] if reap_workers(waited_pid, waited_exitcode):
> [dochtml]   File
> "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage_setup/docbuild/utils.py",
> line 227, in reap_workers
> [dochtml] w.start()
> [dochtml]   File
> "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/multiprocessing/process.py",
> line 130, in start
> [dochtml] self._popen = Popen(self)
> [dochtml]   File
> "/home/dimpase/sage/local/lib/python2.7/multiprocessing/forking.py",
> line 121, in __init__
> [dochtml] self.pid = os.fork()
> [dochtml] OSError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory
> [dochtml]
> [dochtml] Note: incremental documentation builds sometimes cause spurious
> [dochtml] error messages. To be certain that these are real errors, run
> [dochtml] "make doc-clean" first and try again.
> make[3]: *** [Makefile:2041: doc-html] Error 1
> make[3]: Leaving directory '/home/dimpase/sage/build/make'
> make[2]: *** [Makefile:1852: all-start] Error 2
> make[2]: Leaving directory '/home/dimpase/sage/build/make'
> 
> real 14m21.762s
> user 13m16.489s
> sys 0m30.801s
> ***
> Error building Sage.
> 
> -- 
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