Re: [Sugar-devel] no module named sugar.activity.activity

[Tony Anderson]

It is sad that these developers do not have access to Sugar installed on 
an XO. The process of upgrading from GTK2 to GTK3 is simple and 
practical. The original version of the activity can be run directly. The 
new version can be installed in parallel. As changes are made they can 
be directly tested. Then the GTK3 version can be uploaded to GitHub.


Tony

On 1/29/20 2:09 PM, James Cameron wrote:

Yes, that's an expected traceback.  It is caused because the "Sugar
Toolkit for GTK 2" software is not installed on your computer.

Ubuntu 18.04 does not have a package for this software.  It was
removed in the interval between Ubuntu 16.04 and 18.04, in turn
because other GTK 2 packages were removed.

You can download Ubuntu 16.04 and install Sugar, and this will give
you GTK 2 support for Sugar activities so you can run them before
porting them to GTK 3.

Or you can download OLPC OS 18.04.0 and run it in a VM, and this will
combine Ubuntu 18.04 with GTK 2 support;

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0

We also explain in the native sugar development environment
documentation how to install "Sugar Toolkit for GTK 2" from source
code, but given your experience so far I really do not recommend
trying this.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 01:37:30PM +0530, Abhishek Tanwar wrote:

Sorry I posted the wrong traceback by mistake. Here is the traceback I wanted
to post . I am really sorry

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/bin/sugar-activity", line 219, in 
     main()
   File "/usr/bin/sugar-activity", line 163, in main
     module = _import_(module_name)
   File "/usr/share/sugar/activities/Arithmetic.activity/arithmetic.py", line
28, in 
     import dobject.groupthink.sugar_tools as sugar_tools
   File "/usr/share/sugar/activities/Arithmetic.activity/dobject/groupthink/
sugar_tools.py", line 20, in 
     from sugar.activity.activity import Activity, ActivityToolbox
ImportError: No module named sugar.activity.activity

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 1:30 PM Chihurumnaya Ibiam <[1]
ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com> wrote:

 The traceback you posted shows you didn't import Gdk but used it, make sure
 Gdk is imported.

 On Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 8:33 AM Abhishek Tanwar <[2]
 abhishektanwar...@gmail.com> wrote:

 I am trying to port [3]https://github.com/sugarlabs/arithmetic to GTk3
 but when i run the activity to understand the working(with GTK) it
 throws an error "no module named sugar.activity.activity".I searched
 google for any potential solutions but could not find anything .

 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/bin/sugar-activity", line 219, in 
     main()
   File "/usr/bin/sugar-activity", line 214, in main
     instance = create_activity_instance(activity_constructor,
 activity_handle)
   File "/usr/bin/sugar-activity", line 48, in create_activity_instance
     activity = constructor(handle)
   File "/usr/share/sugar/activities/compress-activity.activity/
 Compress.py", line 42, in _init_
     canvas = PyApp()
   File "/usr/share/sugar/activities/compress-activity.activity/
 CompressCanvas3.py", line 504, in _init_
     if Gdk.Screen.width() >= 1200:
 NameError: global name 'Gdk' is not defined
 Exited with status 1, pid 1692 data (', mode 'w' at
 0x7f0fd82a3ae0>, 'f5b6d864dcbea56c6345d8d0394716abe77d46e7')

 I setup my development environment by following [4]https://github.com/
 sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/ubuntu.md and I am working on ubuntu
 18.04.
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References:

[1] mailto:ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com
[2] mailto:abhishektanwar...@gmail.com
[3] https://github.com/sugarlabs/arithmetic
[4] https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/ubuntu.md
[5] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[6] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Using ad hoc network, was Re: XO laptop as wireless remote terminal for Internet-in-a-Box

[Tony Anderson]

Thanks for that, I will try to get it working with the laptops I have at 
the moment. This hardware issue will have to be checked on every

laptop at the schools we are working with.

Tony

On 03/12/2019 12:38, James Cameron wrote:

G'day Tony,

I've just tested with OLPC OS 13.2.10, and this method is working fine
with XO-1.5, XO-1.75, and XO-4.  It does not work properly with XO-1.

The shared or private switch does not block the communication at all,
since the HTTP connection does bypass Telepathy.

Most likely causes of what you describe are;

1.  wireless radio electrostatic discharge damage to one of the
laptops in the room,

2.  break of antenna cable to one of the laptops in the room.

When either of these occur, there can be two ad hoc networks formed
with the same name, but containing different laptops.  This will give
errors in Browse when you try to load the content via port 8000.

Both of these conditions are highly likely as the laptops age; ESD is
cumulative, and the plasticiser evaporates from the cable insulation
making it brittle.

It only takes one laptop in a room to cause this.

A quick test depends on the Network Neighbourhood.  If the other
laptops can be seen, then they do share the same ad hoc network
network.  If they cannot be seen, they might not share the same
network.

Another test is to "ping IP" where IP is the IP address you mentioned
as being shared.  If this does not respond with "64 bytes from ..."
repeatedly, then there is something fundamentally wrong with the ad
hoc wireless network.

It does not work the same way with XO-1 because XO-1 offers IEEE
802.11s mesh channels instead.  XO-1 can join an ad hoc network if one
is already formed by XO-1.5 or later, but cannot form a new one.

With an unlocked laptop you can test the antennas using firmware;
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Antenna_testing

Should you need a laptop unlocked, send me the serial number.

(removed CC support-gang, as I'm not subscribed.)

On Tue, Dec 03, 2019 at 09:40:41AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:

The dicussion below  appears to refer to the use of an XO to administer a
schoolserver. I urgently need help at the other end: using an XO toserve
content in a classroom using 'SimpleHTTPServer'. This is an installed Python
module that enables an XO to serve content via an ad-hoc network. The
content is put on a usb pendrive or an sd card. It is mounted on an XO which
acts as the server. This XO connects to an ad hoc network The system moves
to the pendrive as the working directory. Note: XO laptops in Rwanda have at
most 2GB storage.  It issues python -m SimpleHTTPServer. The XO serves
content on a selected port (by default 8000). The provider notes the url
shown on the Frame network widget (right-click). This IP adddress is written
on a blackboard.

The client XOs connect to the same ad hoc network. They open Browse and
issue an http request such as http 169.258.9.16:8000 where the address is
the IP address on the blackboard. The return is a list of files and folders
in the pendrive root or the index.html page in the root. That page can
display an index to the content, a subset of the IIAB content (e.g. pdfs
from Rachel or Sugar activities or Phet simulations). This technique has
proven very valuable in classrooms that cannot be reached by a router from
the schoolserver or in schools which do not have a school server. It costs
only the price of the usb device. An 8gb device provides 4 times the storage
capacity of the XO.

My problem is that this no longer works (13.2.9 Sugar 0.112). The server XO
does not see the http requests from the clients XOs. My suspicion is the
shared|private switch in private mode blocks the communication over the
ad-hoc network. It would help lots of students and teachers if this problem
can be resolved. Perhaps there is a way to enable the network without
becoming dependent on the collaboration system.

Tony



On 02/12/2019 19:00, support-gang-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

 1. XO laptop as wireless remote terminal for Internet-in-a-Box
(Nathan Riddle)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:35:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan Riddle 
To: support-g...@lists.laptop.org
Subject: [support-gang] XO laptop as wireless remote terminal for
Internet-in-a-Box
Message-ID: <1214647805.1373408.1575304544...@email.ionos.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

[Sugar-devel] Using ad hoc network, was Re: XO laptop as wireless remote terminal for Internet-in-a-Box

[Tony Anderson]

The dicussion below  appears to refer to the use of an XO to administer 
a schoolserver. I urgently need help at the other end: using an XO 
toserve content in a classroom using 'SimpleHTTPServer'. This is an 
installed Python module that enables an XO to serve content via an 
ad-hoc network. The content is put on a usb pendrive or an sd card. It 
is mounted on an XO which acts as the server. This XO connects to an ad 
hoc network The system moves to the pendrive as the working directory. 
Note: XO laptops in Rwanda have at most 2GB storage.  It issues python 
-m SimpleHTTPServer. The XO serves content on a selected port (by 
default 8000). The provider notes the url shown on the Frame network 
widget (right-click). This IP adddress is written on a blackboard.


The client XOs connect to the same ad hoc network. They open Browse and 
issue an http request such as http 169.258.9.16:8000 where the address 
is the IP address on the blackboard. The return is a list of files and 
folders in the pendrive root or the index.html page in the root. That 
page can display an index to the content, a subset of the IIAB content 
(e.g. pdfs from Rachel or Sugar activities or Phet simulations). This 
technique has proven very valuable in classrooms that cannot be reached 
by a router from the schoolserver or in schools which do not have a 
school server. It costs only the price of the usb device. An 8gb device 
provides 4 times the storage capacity of the XO.


My problem is that this no longer works (13.2.9 Sugar 0.112). The server 
XO does not see the http requests from the clients XOs. My suspicion is 
the shared|private switch in private mode blocks the communication over 
the ad-hoc network. It would help lots of students and teachers if this 
problem can be resolved. Perhaps there is a way to enable the network 
without becoming dependent on the collaboration system.


Tony



On 02/12/2019 19:00, support-gang-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

1. XO laptop as wireless remote terminal for Internet-in-a-Box
   (Nathan Riddle)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:35:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Nathan Riddle 
To: support-g...@lists.laptop.org
Subject: [support-gang] XO laptop as wireless remote terminal for
Internet-in-a-Box
Message-ID: <1214647805.1373408.1575304544...@email.ionos.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

An XO(*) laptop can be used as a wireless remote terminal for Internet-in-a box 
(IIAB) on a RaspberryPi computer.

Directly, the Browse Activity (or Firefox on XO's) is not compatible with IIAB; 
however, SSH with XO's X11 Forwarding (no sound) can display IIAB screens.

In August, a post by George Hunt demonstrated wifi "AP client" plus AP on Pi 
prompted a look at using wireless. Earlier, a USB wired connection was being used with 
SSH / X11 Forwarding.   A wireless connection was thought to have some advantages.

The full Debian Desktop has a Chromium Browser, so the SSH link starts Desktop 
/Chromium or Chromium Browser directly.   IIAB is then started in Chromium 
Browser. There is also access to a large part of the Debian Desktop.

Can anyone point to a way to start IIAB directly after SSH into RaspberryPi ??

Used was the standard method of setting up a wireless, headless Pi :   connect 
Pi and XO to wireless router and ssh pi@raspberrypi (ip address 192.168.128.4) 
with XO laptop. Commands from the XO installed IIAB on a RaspberryPi Zero W.

Unfortunately, the AP client of George Hunt's shortcut would not survived IIAB 
installation and was abandoned for the simple method.   Still, wlan0 survived, 
but was blocked without an inet address. IIAB had been configure for unblocked 
gateway.

Any suggestions for enabling wlan0 so internet service is available ??

Multiple (2) XO laptops can connect to IIAB AP and small programs, such as 
Terminal and Calculator, will work separately on each of the remotes. Large 
programs, such as Chromium and Libre Office when started on the second remote, 
just open another Tab on the first remote.   These are not server version 
programs, but the programs that appear to download do work.

Chromium is very slow and may be due to typing "lookahead" . By contrast, IIAB 
seems to run at a speed similar to the usual XO speed.   The wireless version, 
surprisingly, seems to run faster than the wired version.   On IIAB, the Content Menu 
takes a long time.

Nathan 

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] From OLPC XO To Positivo: Rwanda Sets The Bar Higher

[Tony Anderson]

The main portal for Rwanda education is https://reb.rw/index.php?id=6. 
Dr. NIYIZAMWIYITIRA Christine is
Head of ICT in Education Department. She would be the in regard to the 
OLPC Program which is  now merged into ICT in Education.


REB is located at:

    Rwanda Education Board (REB)

    Stadium Road, Remera
    P.O. BOX 3817, Kigali, Rwanda

    Tel: (+250) 255121482/ 3020
        e-mail: i...@reb.rw

    website: www.reb.rw

ICT in Upper Primary is included in the science curriculum:  See 
https://reb.rw/fileadmin/cAompetence_based_curriculum/syllabi/Upper_Secondary/SCIENCE/SET_Upper_primary_V2.pdf


Note: The curriculum includes explicit lessons on Scratch, Turtle Art, 
and E-Toys. In addition units are included on the Sugar and Gnome 
interfaces to the XO.


Tony


On 25/11/2019 21:46, Alex Perez wrote:
It would be good and helpful to attempt to make contact with anyone 
within Rwanda that is using Sugar on Positivos, official or otherwise, 
but also anyone who is involved with the official distribution of 
Positivos within Rwanda. Can you help us on this front, Samson?



Walter Bender <mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com>
November 25, 2019 at 6:57 AM


On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 4:38 AM Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


The current school year in Rwanda is just ending and the new year
starts
January 6. The Positivos have been distributed to GS (Groupe
Scolaire)
schools which are public with grades from entry to S3 (9th grade).

The ICT Curriculum is based on Windows - with some planned
expansion to
include mobile techniques. The Positivos are distributed with
Windows 10
installed.  Neither the Positivos or XOs currently include touch
screen
technology.

Note: as far as I know, Rwanda is the largest still active XO
deployment. The need is to find a bridge between the student's three
years of primary school XO experience and their further ICT
instruction.The Positivo hard drive is large enough to support an
Ubuntu/Sugar install alongside.. Some teachers are making this
install
on their own initiative. The article hints that Rwanda may take
official
advantage of this opportunity.


Please let us know if there is anything we can do to support this 
effort.



I am currently in Rwanda working with Care 4 Kids, a German
philanthropy
supporting the use of the XO. Care 4 Kids provides interns - local A
Level graduates in ICT to selected schools. In 2019 these interns
supported five GS schools in Kigali province (XO ICT enrollment
in the
thousands). In 2020, there will be five two-person teams of interns.
Four teams supporting  a school in one of the provinces and
working with
teachers from five surrounding schools. The Kigali team will
continue to
support the five 2019 schools. Their support provided in the native
language has proven effective and popular.


Is there a translation team we could tap into?

As far as bridging the two worlds, some of our apps could be 
gateways, such as Music Blocks, which run just as well in Windows as 
Sugar.



Tony

On 25/11/2019 01:56, James Cameron wrote:
> Thanks Samson.
>
> For Sugar Labs, the most important part is "the machines will
have the
> same modules (interface) for children lesson," so there's an
> opportunity for Sugar Labs to remain involved.
>
> I don't know what operating system REB are using, but OLPC OS
18.04.0
> based on Ubuntu 18.04.2 and Sugar will likely work straight away on
> PC-compatible laptops, and can be customised and rebuilt.  Our OLPC
> servers do see update requests from countries were we have not
> distributed our PC-compatible laptops, which is cool.
>
> On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 12:17:21PM +0100, Samson Goddy wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I saw this article online, and I thought it should be an
interesting read[1].
>>
>> [1][1]https://ktpress.rw/2019/11/
>> from-olpc-xo-to-positivo-rwanda-sets-the-bar-higher/
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> --
>>
>>    Samson Goddy
>>
>>    Twitter: [2]https://twitter.com/samson_goddy
>>    Email: [3]samsongo...@sugarlabs.org
<mailto:samsongo...@sugarlabs.org>
>>                [4]samsongo...@gmail.com
<mailto:samsongo...@gmail.com>
>>
>>    Website: [5]https://samsongoddy.me/
>>
>> References:
>>
>> [1]

https://ktpress.rw/2019/11/from-olpc-xo-to-positivo-rwanda-sets-the-bar-higher/
>> [2] https://twitter.com/samson_goddy
>> [3] mailto:samsongo...@sugarlabs.org
<mailto:samsongo...@sugarlabs.org>
>> [4] mailto:samsongo...@gmail.co

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] From OLPC XO To Positivo: Rwanda Sets The Bar Higher

[Tony Anderson]

The current school year in Rwanda is just ending and the new year starts 
January 6. The Positivos have been distributed to GS (Groupe Scolaire) 
schools which are public with grades from entry to S3 (9th grade).


The ICT Curriculum is based on Windows - with some planned expansion to 
include mobile techniques. The Positivos are distributed with Windows 10 
installed.  Neither the Positivos or XOs currently include touch screen 
technology.


Note: as far as I know, Rwanda is the largest still active XO 
deployment. The need is to find a bridge between the student's three 
years of primary school XO experience and their further ICT 
instruction.The Positivo hard drive is large enough to support an 
Ubuntu/Sugar install alongside.. Some teachers are making this install 
on their own initiative. The article hints that Rwanda may take official 
advantage of this opportunity.


I am currently in Rwanda working with Care 4 Kids, a German philanthropy 
supporting the use of the XO. Care 4 Kids provides interns - local A 
Level graduates in ICT to selected schools. In 2019 these interns 
supported five GS schools in Kigali province (XO ICT enrollment in the 
thousands). In 2020, there will be five two-person teams of interns. 
Four teams supporting  a school in one of the provinces and working with 
teachers from five surrounding schools. The Kigali team will continue to 
support the five 2019 schools. Their support provided in the native 
language has proven effective and popular.


Tony

On 25/11/2019 01:56, James Cameron wrote:

Thanks Samson.

For Sugar Labs, the most important part is "the machines will have the
same modules (interface) for children lesson," so there's an
opportunity for Sugar Labs to remain involved.

I don't know what operating system REB are using, but OLPC OS 18.04.0
based on Ubuntu 18.04.2 and Sugar will likely work straight away on
PC-compatible laptops, and can be customised and rebuilt.  Our OLPC
servers do see update requests from countries were we have not
distributed our PC-compatible laptops, which is cool.

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 12:17:21PM +0100, Samson Goddy wrote:

Hello everyone,

I saw this article online, and I thought it should be an interesting read[1].

[1][1]https://ktpress.rw/2019/11/
from-olpc-xo-to-positivo-rwanda-sets-the-bar-higher/

Regards

--

   Samson Goddy

   Twitter: [2]https://twitter.com/samson_goddy
   Email: [3]samsongo...@sugarlabs.org
               [4]samsongo...@gmail.com

   Website: [5]https://samsongoddy.me/

References:

[1] 
https://ktpress.rw/2019/11/from-olpc-xo-to-positivo-rwanda-sets-the-bar-higher/
[2] https://twitter.com/samson_goddy
[3] mailto:samsongo...@sugarlabs.org
[4] mailto:samsongo...@gmail.com
[5] https://www.sugarlabs.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Releasing activities on ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

At a minimum I hope activities releassed to ASLO have been tested on the 
XO (intel and arm). If not, at least the description could note that the 
activity is not supported on the XO.


Tony


On 7/22/19 4:29 PM, Swarup N wrote:

Hello,
I wish to release activities on ASLO. This is in part of work for GSoC 
2019.
I have been testing activities on Fedora 18, Ubuntu 18.04, and Ubuntu 
16.04 (not yet, but I plan to start). Are there any other platforms I 
need to test on?


Are there any release notes I need to include? Is there a format I 
need to follow?

What is procedure to bundle activities in .xo format?

Thanks.

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[Sugar-devel] Marcel Minnaert

[Tony Anderson]

While at the iRods Userr Group Meeting at the University of Utrecht, I 
found this on the wall of the Minnaert building:


"Aren't most children's games basically an excellent series of science 
experiments?"


            Marcel Minnaert (1893-1970)

Tony

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Request for Comments: What's missing for a Sugar 1.0 release?

[Tony Anderson]

Naturally I can only speak of the locations where I am supporting laptop 
deploymens: Rwanda and Pakistan. In Rwanda there are nearly 400,000 
laptops deployed at approcimately 1600 primary schools. These are a mix 
of XO-1, XO-1.5 and XO-1.75. Most of the XO-1.5s unfortunately have only 
2GB storage. In Pakistan, there are approximately 1000 XO-1 and XO-1.5s 
deployed. The XO-1.5s have been configured with 16GB storage. The number 
deployed  will grow in 2019 due to the transfer of XO-4 laptops from 
Australia. These are configured with 8GB storage.


All of these laptops have been updated, most to 13.2.9. Some were 
upgraded to 13.2.8 and have not yet been updated to 13.2.9.  This is the 
latest ugly release, an essential requirement for flash, mp3 and mp4 
instructional materials.


Tony

On 5/20/19 3:52 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:
I'm curious how often those XO machines are updated to the latest 
release of Sugar.


Does anyone have any estimates for how many machines are in active use 
and how many are really upgraded?


On Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:18 AM Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


Sugar Labs are the only people on the planet who believe 0.114 >
0.98. The primary requirement is that it works on all models of
the XO (still by far the dominant platform for Sugar). It should
be documented by an update to Documentation 0.106.

Tony


On 5/20/19 6:36 AM, Alex Perez wrote:

Folks,

Six years and ~two months ago, way back in March of 2013, the
then-current SLOBs decided to make "the next release" version
1.0. This didn't happen, and instead, 0.99.0 was released on
2013-06-27 instead.

Seehttps://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Meeting_Minutes-2013-03-21

I'd like to request that the community at-large share their
opinions with regards to what they feel are _must-have_ (not
"nice to have") items for a "Sugar 1.0" release. Please reply to
this thread with your thoughts.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Request for Comments: What's missing for a Sugar 1.0 release?

[Tony Anderson]

Sugar Labs are the only people on the planet who believe 0.114 > 0.98. 
The primary requirement is that it works on all models of the XO (still 
by far the dominant platform for Sugar). It should be documented by an 
update to Documentation 0.106.


Tony


On 5/20/19 6:36 AM, Alex Perez wrote:

Folks,

Six years and ~two months ago, way back in March of 2013, the 
then-current SLOBs decided to make "the next release" version 1.0. 
This didn't happen, and instead, 0.99.0 was released on 2013-06-27 
instead.


Seehttps://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Meeting_Minutes-2013-03-21 



I'd like to request that the community at-large share their opinions 
with regards to what they feel are _must-have_ (not "nice to have") 
items for a "Sugar 1.0" release. Please reply to this thread with your 
thoughts.


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Toolkit Installation Sugar v0.113

[Tony Anderson]

+1

On 5/14/19 8:41 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
Any chance of a 0.113.1 maintenance release [1] to make this patch 
available? Seems unreasonable to expect mere mortals to find and apply 
patches just to get started.


regards.

-walter

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maintenance_release

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 11:46 AM Alex Perez > wrote:


Aniket,

You have hit a known bug for 0.113. Please see
https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/issues/822

I should also point out that this was an easily search-able issue,
and would encourage you to use Google or your preferred search
engine, when you encounter issues like this in the future.

This bug will be fixed in 0.114, whenever that is released, which
I have no direct control over. For now, you can download

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/commit/a83257bcf791e237afb55ed37f04d776f0fd927b.patch/
and patch Sugar manually, using the 'patch' command.

ANIKET MATHUR wrote on 5/14/19 4:12 AM:

Greetings everyone,

I was installing Sugar v0.113 using the Native Sugar build method
here

.
I was using Ubuntu 18.10. After installation, on running Sugar I
received the error message "ImportError: No module named sugar3".
Need help with a couple of questions
1) Is there a need to have a build of the older version for
v0.113 to work properly?
(never paid attention to that before).
 2) What is the correct procedure for installing v0.113?
Thanks!


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Re: [Sugar-devel] first-time only issues

[Tony Anderson]

Incredible! We are having trouble identifying tasks that need doing.

Try:

    Over 100 Sugar Activities in ASLO which fail to start.
    Many activities which do not have a repository in github.com/sugarlabs
    Many activities still dependent on gtk3 and other deprecated moduless

Tony


On 5/3/19 2:02 PM, James Cameron wrote:

Thanks.  Yes, it makes sense.

But it is like directing an investigation.  A true and well-done
investigation is one where the investigator is independent of bias.

When we bias the newcomers toward certain tasks, we tend only to get
those tasks done.  An example is how we've had many activities ported
to GTK 3 and still not yet released.

I've got "Maintain an activity" on my "How to get started as a Sugar
Labs developer";

http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2019-April/056615.html

And also on our "Contribute code"

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/contributing.md#modifying-activities

There seems to be a hope that the reason why we don't have newcomers
doing this is because they find it too hard, and they want something
easier, like changing colours.

I'm not sure that this is true.  I think the reasons why we don't have
newcomers doing anything this are far more profound;

1.  very few other people are doing anything; development has slowed,

2.  work done by others earlier has not been merged, or not released,

3.  there are more interesting things to do,

A way to be sure is to ask our newcomers why they chose not to do
anything.  Or why a newcomer made a few patches and did not help to
get an activity released.  We might also ask the oldtimers why they
have chosen not to help, or not to learn new skills.

On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 11:08:44AM +0530, Amaan Iqbal wrote:

I meant if the color palette update(actual update in the code), Improvised look
(in the code), suggestion etc is of some value, then their PR can directly be
merged.

Also we can have a section in each repo Readme for some 'expected
functionalities' to have, which the newcomers can directly update. So that they
can get the feel of getting the PR merged.

For redundant codes, the newcomers may find 2 places where similar code is
appearing and remove either of them and send corresponding PR.

Regarding console errors, we may have basic issues, specific to each error say
of datatype mismatch etc which doesn't block the expected behavior but better
to fix them. These issues can be worked upon by the newcomers and will require
finding out which module is located where. This will help them dig deeper into
the code base and contribute further.

I hope it makes sense.

Thanks,
Amaan

On May 3, 2019 9:37 AM, "James Cameron" <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:

 Interesting idea.  But I've an ethical problem with creating issues
 that don't need to be fixed, and will never merge.  It seems arbitrary
 and unfair to a new contributor.

 On the other hand, some of the issues you listed have general value;
 such as minimising console output.

 On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 09:05:07AM +0530, Amaan Iqbal wrote:
 > I have a suggestion here. We may create some issues with beginner labels,
 such
 > that solving it may not be really helpful to us at first, but it can give
 > insights of the code base to the new contributors.
 >
 > For instance, an issue for trying new color palette for our SugarLabs
 website.
 > Or an issue for trying different border radius, color to a section of any
 > activity  etc.
 >
 > These may be useful in the long run especially if a new contributor can
 come up
 > with something out of the box. Or atleast it will help them get familiar
 to our
 > code base.
 >
 > These can be marked as 'reserved for beginners'. Some examples of these
 issue
 > can be
 > * Try color palette ABC to our website
 > * Try color palette EFG to our website
 > * Change the border radius of xyz element to make it look better
 > * Update padding/look of xyz section of abc activity
 > * Come up with 2 instances of redundant codes in xyz repo of SugarLabs
 > * Come up with the idea of 2 features improvement for xyz repo
 > * Come up with an idea to implement xyz functionality
 > * Minimize console errors of abc activity
 >
 > I guess some of these would be interesting to the user even if they don't
 know
 > how to code. It will definitely help in attracting a good number of new
 > contributors.
 >
 > Also, it would not affect the development time of the experienced
 contributors
 > since these issues would not require deep understanding of the code base
 or any
 > skill.
 >
 > Thanks,
 > Amaan
 >
 >
 > On May 3, 2019 4:07 AM, "James Cameron" <[1][2]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:
 >
 >     You're saying leave some flaws rather than fix them.
 >
 >     In general that's a good idea for attracting new 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Outreach Plans 2019 - PyCon Cleveland (Tony Anderson)

[Tony Anderson]

Hi,

Touche.

Tony



On 5/1/19 6:43 AM, D. Joe wrote:

On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 09:00:24AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

Agreed. I think Sugarizer has a better immediate opportunity to attract new
users than Sugar/Python.

Be that as it may, it's an odd thing to mention in a thread about promoting 
Sugar at a Python conference.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Fedora 30 SoaS (Sugar on A Stick) final released

[Tony Anderson]

The current SOAS installation page 
(https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation) includes 
the caution:


*Important change since Fedora 24 SoaS*
The/livecd-iso-to-disk/installation script is no longer packaged in the 
SoaS .iso file. Starting with Fedora 24, if you want a Live USB with 
persistent storage, you must install the/livecd-tools/package to obtain 
the installation script and the SYSLINUX boot loader. Use this command 
to obtain the installer:|sudo dnf install livecd-tools|


Does this new release resolve this issue so that the iso via dd provides 
persistence and uses the full usb stick?


Tony

On 4/30/19 10:58 PM, Alex Perez wrote:
The Fedora 30 release was earlier today, and with it comes the Fedora 
30 Sugar on a Stick environment, which now has functional 
collaboration, out of the box. It includes Sugar 0.113, which 
incorporates the necessary fixes.



For those who would like to try or use Fedora 30 Sugar on a Stick, you 
can download these ISO images, and use DD, win32diskimager, or your 
preferred raw image writing utility to stick the contents on a USB 
drive. Alternatively, the two ISOs below can be booted as a Virtual 
Machine, using VirtualBox, Parallels, Hyper-V, and other 
virtualization software.


Here are your download links:

https://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/30/Spins/x86_64/iso/Fedora-SoaS-Live-x86_64-30-1.2.iso 



https://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora-secondary/releases/30/Spins/i386/iso/Fedora-SoaS-Live-i386-30-1.2.iso 



https://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/30/Spins/armhfp/images/Fedora-SoaS-armhfp-30-1.2-sda.raw.xz 




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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Outreach Plans 2019 - PyCon Cleveland

[Tony Anderson]

I think you missed my point. Software is developed and maintained to 
serve the needs of its users, in our case primary school children.


Tony

On 4/22/19 9:40 PM, D. Joe wrote:

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 03:42:52PM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

What Sugar Labs needs to survive is users. If our count of active users
reaches zero, there will be no need for developers (or Sugar Labs).

A developer must be also a user.

So, it's possible to have a user base only of developers.

As has been pointed out, a user base that contains no developers though will 
bitrot to nothing.




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Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: SOAS on R-Pi

[Tony Anderson]

I hope you are successful in this initiative. It is exactly what we need 
to document as part of the education project.


Tony


On 4/23/19 11:43 AM, Hilary Naylor wrote:

Hi James,
Thank you, that's very helpful. However, isn't there a way to have a 
choice between sugar and the raspbian desktop? I see that .xsession 
has two entries, both of which are "sugar" -- could the other be the 
name of the raspbian desktop? From what I've read so far it might be 
LXDE. ??

thanks
Hilary

---
Hilary Naylor, Ph.D.
www.a2zed.us 
Oakland CA


On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 10:59 PM James Cameron > wrote:


G'day Hilary,

As you used "echo sugar >> .xsession" to make it run Sugar on reboot,
and you want to stop that from happening, remove the file.

"rm .xsession"

Do that in Terminal, then reboot.

Alternatively, reinstall Raspbian using the downloads from Raspberry
Pi Foundation;

https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

The page you link to is about Debian.  Raspbian is not Debian, but is
derived from it.

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 10:43:13PM -0700, Hilary Naylor wrote:
> Hi,
> Samson advises I forward this query to you>>>
> I started from this page
> [1]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/debian.md#
> using-sugar-0110-on-debian
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Hilary Naylor <[2]hnay...@gmail.com
>
> Date: Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 10:35 PM
> Subject: Re: SOAS on R-Pi
> To: Samson Goddy <[3]samsongo...@gmail.com
>
>
> But now I can't get it back to raspian! I followed the commands
on this page:
> [4]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Raspbian
>
> I guess this makes it run sugar on reboot
> echo sugar >> .xsession
> so how do I make it run raspbian on reboot?
>
>
> ---
> Hilary Naylor, Ph.D.
> [5]www.a2zed.us 
> Oakland CA
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 10:15 PM Hilary Naylor
<[6]hnay...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>     I got it working! :)
>
>     ---
>     Hilary Naylor, Ph.D.
>     [7]www.a2zed.us 
>     Oakland CA
>
>     On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 5:13 PM Hilary Naylor
<[8]hnay...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>         Hi Samson,
>         Starting from this page:
>       
 [9]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/debian.md#
>         using-sugar-0110-on-debian
>         Stretch is a raspian image so there is not the
opportunity (that I know
>         of) to do this:
>           ☆ when asked mid-way through install what to include,
deselect all,
>         So I open Terminal and enter
>
>         sudo apt install sucrose lightdm
>
>          Result:
>         E: Unable to locate package sucrose
>
>         Advice?
>         thanks
>         Hilary
>
>         ---
>         Hilary Naylor, Ph.D.
>         [10]www.a2zed.us 
>         Oakland CA
>
> References:
>
> [1]

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/debian.md#using-sugar-0110-on-debian
> [2] mailto:hnay...@gmail.com 
> [3] mailto:samsongo...@gmail.com 
> [4] https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Raspbian
> [5] http://www.a2zed.us/
> [6] mailto:hnay...@gmail.com 
> [7] http://www.a2zed.us/
> [8] mailto:hnay...@gmail.com 
> [9]

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/debian.md#using-sugar-0110-on-debian
> [10] http://www.a2zed.us/

> ___
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-- 
James Cameron

http://quozl.netrek.org/


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Outreach Plans 2019 - PyCon Cleveland

[Tony Anderson]

I think it should be possible to have an exhibit at All Things Open. 
Typical booth is a table wide enough for two people to sit side by side 
and talk with people as they pass by.  Most booths have a backdrop 
identifying the organization and showing related images - generally as a 
lead-in to discussions. I don't know how to begin a discussion with the 
Open Source people on reserving a space.


Caryl Bigenho has a lot of experience in this after several years of 
exhibiting Sugar at the Scale conference in Los Angeles. As most 
organizations do, we could have an exhibit in a box ready to send to a 
conference as the opportunity arises.


Calls for papers at Open Source are open.

Tony

On 4/21/19 5:37 AM, Vipul Gupta wrote:

Hey Tony,

All Things Open is an awesome conf (i just discovered it today, Thanks),
I liked several of the points you made regarding the representation of 
Sugar Labs at conferences such as PyCon's. That's exactly what I was 
hoping for while focusing on the Education Summit of PyCon Cleveland. 
These conferences are a great opportunity to represent the work Sugar 
Labs have done, and attract new supporters and contributors. I hope 
Samson, Ibiam and everyone else heading out there takes full benefit 
of the unlimited potential that PyCon has to offer.


Also, please do collaborate or discuss on the mailing list any 
conference or summit that would help further our cause and outreach 
goals. I would be more than happy to help draft proposals or even try 
to get a booth in Open Spaces so as to represent Sugar Labs and all 
its offerings to a wider audience especially educators and students. I 
am already in the process to create a google form on seeking speakers 
in our community who would like to help out with this and be present 
at future conferences for Sugar Labs. I think some good would surely 
come out this if we all work together.


Cordially,
Vipul Gupta
Mixster <https://mixstersite.wordpress.com/> | Github 
<https://github.com/vipulgupta2048>



On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 7:12 AM Tony Anderson <mailto:t...@olenepal.org>> wrote:


Hi, Samson

At the time I will be in Germany. I expect to attend Europython in
Basel July 8-14. I also plan to attend All Things Open in Raleigh
NC October 13-15

Tony

On 4/15/19 5:02 PM, Samson Goddy wrote:

Hi Tony,

I agree with you. Are you coming to Pycon?


Regards

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 9:55 AM Tony Anderson
mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:

What Sugar Labs needs to survive is users. If our count of
active users
reaches zero, there will be no need for developers (or Sugar
Labs).

A Conference like PyCon is an opportunity to show that Sugar
is a viable
educational platform. So marketing does not need to be
concerned about
$, it needs to be concerned about the characteristics of
Sugar that make
it an attractive option for educators. At such a conference
it is
possible to make presentations - ofen there is an educational
track.
More importantly there is an opportunity to have an exhibit
(booth).
This booth can provide many examples of Sugar running on
platforms other
than the XO (make sure there some XO pictures visible since this
attracts interest to a booth.) Sugarizer can demonstrate that
Sugar is
available for smartphones, tablets and other devices. Sugar
can show its
capabilities on Ubuntu, Raspbian. Windows is a special case
since
Miccrosoft has been able to lock educators into Windows.
Showing that
Sugar is viable in a Windows-based deployment may be beyond
our current
cabability.

Our goal should be to attract new contributors and to find new
deployment opportunities.

Tony

On 4/15/19 2:28 PM, James Cameron wrote:
> You've all had an interesting discussion.  I'll add my
points now; in
> the form of questions and answers.
>
>
> Q: are there funds available for marketing?
>
> A: in motion 2019-01 on 4th January, the Oversight Board
preserved the
> GSoC 2018 mentor stipends for marketing,
>
>
> Q: are there any other funds available for marketing?
>
> A: yes, the Oversight Board could spend up to about $90k,
but such a
> spend would have to have compelling justification.  Swag isn't
> compelling.
>
>
> Q: have funds been spent on marketing?
>
> A: yes, the Oversight Board agreed to spend money on travel
for two
> members to PyCon 2019.
>
>
> Q: how will the rest of the funds be spent?
>
&

Re: [Sugar-devel] Interested in Joining GSOD 2019

[Tony Anderson]

I don't think we have completed plans for GSOD yet. However, the current 
user documentation for Sugar is at help.sugarlabs.org. How to work with 
the  documentation is described in the section 'Contribute to this 
manual'. The main web site: www.sugarlabs.org describes how to set up 
Sugar - in my experience Ubuntu 18.04 represents the most useful host - 
particularly because Sphinx is easy to install.


Tony


On 4/18/19 4:28 AM, R wrote:

Hello everyone,

I’m a freelance writer and 2nd year student in Software Engineering from 
Universiti Malaysia Sarawak. I’m interested in joining GSOD 2019.

May I know the plans and requirements for GSOD?

Thank you in advance.

Best Regards,
Ariessa Norramli
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Outreach Plans 2019 - PyCon Cleveland

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Samson

At the time I will be in Germany. I expect to attend Europython in Basel 
July 8-14. I also plan to attend All Things Open in Raleigh NC October 13-15


Tony

On 4/15/19 5:02 PM, Samson Goddy wrote:

Hi Tony,

I agree with you. Are you coming to Pycon?


Regards

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019, 9:55 AM Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


What Sugar Labs needs to survive is users. If our count of active
users
reaches zero, there will be no need for developers (or Sugar Labs).

A Conference like PyCon is an opportunity to show that Sugar is a
viable
educational platform. So marketing does not need to be concerned
about
$, it needs to be concerned about the characteristics of Sugar
that make
it an attractive option for educators. At such a conference it is
possible to make presentations - ofen there is an educational track.
More importantly there is an opportunity to have an exhibit (booth).
This booth can provide many examples of Sugar running on platforms
other
than the XO (make sure there some XO pictures visible since this
attracts interest to a booth.) Sugarizer can demonstrate that
Sugar is
available for smartphones, tablets and other devices. Sugar can
show its
capabilities on Ubuntu, Raspbian. Windows is a special case since
Miccrosoft has been able to lock educators into Windows. Showing that
Sugar is viable in a Windows-based deployment may be beyond our
current
cabability.

Our goal should be to attract new contributors and to find new
deployment opportunities.

Tony

On 4/15/19 2:28 PM, James Cameron wrote:
> You've all had an interesting discussion.  I'll add my points
now; in
> the form of questions and answers.
>
>
> Q: are there funds available for marketing?
>
> A: in motion 2019-01 on 4th January, the Oversight Board
preserved the
> GSoC 2018 mentor stipends for marketing,
>
>
> Q: are there any other funds available for marketing?
>
> A: yes, the Oversight Board could spend up to about $90k, but such a
> spend would have to have compelling justification.  Swag isn't
> compelling.
>
>
> Q: have funds been spent on marketing?
>
> A: yes, the Oversight Board agreed to spend money on travel for two
> members to PyCon 2019.
>
>
> Q: how will the rest of the funds be spent?
>
> A: apart from reserving funds for marketing expenses relating to
> SCaLE, and not yet applied for, the Oversight Board has made no
other
> decision.
>
> However, the board has received some marketing plans, has asked for
> changes, and will hear any proposals.
>
>
> Q: will a proposal or marketing plan have greater merit if it comes
> from a team who call themselves marketing?
>
> A: no, because;
>
> - the Oversight Board has not formed a marketing team,
>
> - our original marketing team, who had people qualified in
marketing,
>    left long ago,
>
> - the Oversight Board consist of developers or other subject matter
>    experts, can see a claim for legitimacy a mile off, and
discount it
>    easily,
>
>
> Q: but isn't there's a marketing team on the Wiki?
>
> A: it is out of date.
>
>
> Q: but aren't there a whole lot of teams on the Wiki?
>
> A: it is out of date.  Please work together with all of Sugar Labs,
> don't look for a team.
>
>
> Q: does the Software Freedom Conservancy control the funds?
>
> A: to a limited extent.  The Conservancy will act on decisions
by the
> Oversight Board provided those decisions are legal and follow
> Conservancy policies, so any marketing also has to follow those
> policies.
>
>
> Comment;
>
> Gathering more developers who are active is our key to survival as a
> community.  If our count of active developers reaches zero,
there will
> be a short delay and then something in the environment will
change and
> Sugar, Sugarizer or Music Blocks won't be usable.  That is one of
> reasons why we are engaged with Google Summer of Code and Google
> Season of Docs.
>
> We have some people who are interested in helping but have yet to
> learn the skills to contribute actively.  I'd like to see that
change.
> Get started with programming, write new Sugar activities, fix
> activities, and write documentation.
>
>
> Q: what will happen if I do nothing except talk?
>
> A: nothing.  ;-)
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 201

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Outreach Plans 2019 - PyCon Cleveland (Tony Anderson)

[Tony Anderson]

Agreed. I think Sugarizer has a better immediate opportunity to attract 
new users than Sugar/Python.


On 4/15/19 5:37 PM, Lionel Laské wrote:


Hi Tony,

+1 on this.

BTW Sugar/Python is not the only way to grow user base.
For your information, we're currently deploying Sugarizer in 3 schools 
in the Saint-Ouen city near Paris. It means about 150 Android tablets 
with Sugarizer OS installed on it, used by few hundred children.


Regards.

    Lionel.


Le lun. 15 avr. 2019 à 11:03, <mailto:sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org>> a écrit :



Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 15:42:52 +0800
    From: Tony Anderson mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>>
To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Outreach Plans 2019 - PyCon Cleveland
Message-ID: mailto:a42719ae-037d-9224-c420-fb98df7a6...@usa.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

What Sugar Labs needs to survive is users. If our count of active
users
reaches zero, there will be no need for developers (or Sugar Labs).

A Conference like PyCon is an opportunity to show that Sugar is a
viable
educational platform. So marketing does not need to be concerned
about
$, it needs to be concerned about the characteristics of Sugar
that make
it an attractive option for educators. At such a conference it is
possible to make presentations - ofen there is an educational track.
More importantly there is an opportunity to have an exhibit (booth).
This booth can provide many examples of Sugar running on platforms
other
than the XO (make sure there some XO pictures visible since this
attracts interest to a booth.) Sugarizer can demonstrate that
Sugar is
available for smartphones, tablets and other devices. Sugar can
show its
capabilities on Ubuntu, Raspbian. Windows is a special case since
Miccrosoft has been able to lock educators into Windows. Showing that
Sugar is viable in a Windows-based deployment may be beyond our
current
cabability.

Our goal should be to attract new contributors and to find new
deployment opportunities.

Tony


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Outreach Plans 2019 - PyCon Cleveland

[Tony Anderson]

What Sugar Labs needs to survive is users. If our count of active users 
reaches zero, there will be no need for developers (or Sugar Labs).


A Conference like PyCon is an opportunity to show that Sugar is a viable 
educational platform. So marketing does not need to be concerned about 
$, it needs to be concerned about the characteristics of Sugar that make 
it an attractive option for educators. At such a conference it is 
possible to make presentations - ofen there is an educational track. 
More importantly there is an opportunity to have an exhibit (booth). 
This booth can provide many examples of Sugar running on platforms other 
than the XO (make sure there some XO pictures visible since this 
attracts interest to a booth.) Sugarizer can demonstrate that Sugar is 
available for smartphones, tablets and other devices. Sugar can show its 
capabilities on Ubuntu, Raspbian. Windows is a special case since 
Miccrosoft has been able to lock educators into Windows. Showing that 
Sugar is viable in a Windows-based deployment may be beyond our current 
cabability.


Our goal should be to attract new contributors and to find new 
deployment opportunities.


Tony

On 4/15/19 2:28 PM, James Cameron wrote:

You've all had an interesting discussion.  I'll add my points now; in
the form of questions and answers.


Q: are there funds available for marketing?

A: in motion 2019-01 on 4th January, the Oversight Board preserved the
GSoC 2018 mentor stipends for marketing,


Q: are there any other funds available for marketing?

A: yes, the Oversight Board could spend up to about $90k, but such a
spend would have to have compelling justification.  Swag isn't
compelling.


Q: have funds been spent on marketing?

A: yes, the Oversight Board agreed to spend money on travel for two
members to PyCon 2019.


Q: how will the rest of the funds be spent?

A: apart from reserving funds for marketing expenses relating to
SCaLE, and not yet applied for, the Oversight Board has made no other
decision.

However, the board has received some marketing plans, has asked for
changes, and will hear any proposals.


Q: will a proposal or marketing plan have greater merit if it comes
from a team who call themselves marketing?

A: no, because;

- the Oversight Board has not formed a marketing team,

- our original marketing team, who had people qualified in marketing,
   left long ago,

- the Oversight Board consist of developers or other subject matter
   experts, can see a claim for legitimacy a mile off, and discount it
   easily,


Q: but isn't there's a marketing team on the Wiki?

A: it is out of date.


Q: but aren't there a whole lot of teams on the Wiki?

A: it is out of date.  Please work together with all of Sugar Labs,
don't look for a team.


Q: does the Software Freedom Conservancy control the funds?

A: to a limited extent.  The Conservancy will act on decisions by the
Oversight Board provided those decisions are legal and follow
Conservancy policies, so any marketing also has to follow those
policies.


Comment;

Gathering more developers who are active is our key to survival as a
community.  If our count of active developers reaches zero, there will
be a short delay and then something in the environment will change and
Sugar, Sugarizer or Music Blocks won't be usable.  That is one of
reasons why we are engaged with Google Summer of Code and Google
Season of Docs.

We have some people who are interested in helping but have yet to
learn the skills to contribute actively.  I'd like to see that change.
Get started with programming, write new Sugar activities, fix
activities, and write documentation.


Q: what will happen if I do nothing except talk?

A: nothing.  ;-)


On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 12:58:14AM +0530, Sumit Srivastava wrote:

Hi, Vipul, Jaskirat, and all members of SL community!

These days I'm thinking about two things:

1. How to expand the SL developer community?

2. How do we move towards the vision for sugar labs that was discussed a few
weeks ago in an email thread?

As of now, I've some ideas for *1*, but need more inputs from everyone. Shall I
start a new thread for new inputs?

And yes, I'm constantly thinking about how can we make great things happen in
the community. Glad that you noticed.

Regards
Sumit

On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 12:51 am Jaskirat Singh, <[1]juskirat2...@gmail.com>
wrote:

 Thanks Vipul for taking this up, The funds that were granted by Google  for
 GSOC ( I guess ) remains with the community and it is being controlled by
 SFC of which Sugar Labs is a member project.
 I see that Sumit initiated about swags, but maybe it might not have been
 made to move further due to absence of the budget proposal.

 So if anyone of us can try working on proposal for marketing along with a
 marketing team that would be great and would become easy for Board to
 review and add up their decisions.

 On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 12:39 am Vipul Gupta <[2]vipulgupta2...@gmail.com
 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Google Season of Docs-2019

[Tony Anderson]

Clearly, you want to contribute to our documentation. GSOC makes clear 
that Sugar Labs has at least three separate elements: Sugar, Sugarizer 
and Music Blocks. I would like to see you help us with the Sugar 
documentation. This is found at help.sugarlabs.org. This documentation 
is made with Sphinx (http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/stable/). Detailed 
information is provided in help.sugarlabs.org/how to contribute.


We are just beginning to think about how to participate in GSOD as you 
can see from the https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoD link which is 
essentially a stub. However, the above information in help.sugarlabs.org 
is enough to enable you to make immediate contributions. As an example, 
we need a section describing how to download and install the SOAS 
version of Sugar. There are some differences in SOAS from Sugar as 
implemented for the XO - e.g. SOAS does not have a 'Gnome interface'. 
Another section is needed to document how to set up Ubuntu 18.04 
alongside Windows and how to install Sugar (sucrose) to work with 
Ubuntu. This version does provide the 'gnome interface' via Ubuntu 
itself but switching between Sugar and Ubuntu is not intuitive. A third 
option is Sugar on the Raspberry Pi where the alternate interface is 
Raspbian. These topics may be directly useful to you as you need to be 
able to use Sugar and to make screenshots.


Documentation of Sugar in the context of the XO is important since that 
is the environment in which over 90% of our users operate. Further 
documentation that emphasizes pictures (mostly screenshots) and 
minimizes text is critical since the majority of our uses do not speak 
English as a native language and attend schools where the medium of 
instruction is the native language.


Looking forward to seeing you contribution. Please feel free to ask for 
help on Sugar-Devel and to the Sugar Labs education committee by the 
IAEP mailing list or to me directly if I can be of help.


Yours,

Tony


On 4/15/19 2:34 AM, shivanshu raj shrivastava wrote:

Thanks for the quick information.

Shivanshu Raj Shrivastava
B.Tech 3rd year,
Electronics and Communication Department
IIT Roorkee, India
Contact:+91-9425646127,+91-8006470279


On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 6:15 PM Amaan Iqbal > wrote:


Hello Shivanshu,

Welcome to SugarLabs. As such, there is no prerequisite for
contributing to SugarLabs. You can visit
https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoD to see our updates about GSoD
anytime as mentioned by Vipul.

Best way to begin is to start contributing to any of our
repositories on https://github.com/sugarlabs/ with the
technologies you are already familiar with.

Here is a list by James to get started.

New to Sugar Labs? Unlock these achievements.  Work from top to
bottom.

1.  Use Sugar or Sugarizer,


https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/how-can-i-help.md

    * by using Sugar or Sugarizer you will learn how it works, and
      what can be improved.

    * mandatory,

2.  Read our Code of Conduct,


https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

    * especially note the need to choose an appropriate forum, and
      remind others to do the same,

    * mandatory,

3.  Join the developer mailing list,

https://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

    * for asking questions and helping others,

    * subscribe before posting,

    * don't use digest mode if you plan to post messages or
replies,
      as it breaks threads,

    * try to keep discussions public; the default reply mode is
      private, use reply-all,

    * mandatory,

4.  Get a GitHub account,

https://github.com/

    * for reporting issues that you won't fix,

    * for fixing problems in source code,

    * recommended,

5.  Join the Sugar Labs GitHub organisation,

https://github.com/sugarlabs

    * for regular source code contributors, and reviewers, by
      invitation, contact one of the existing members,

    * helpful for mail notification of GitHub activity,

    * optional,

6.  Join as a Member of Sugar Labs,

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Members

    * requires some contribution; code, documentation,
translations,
      maintenance, running a Sugar deployment, or any other
      non-trivial activities which benefit Sugar Labs,

    * reviewed by committee,

    * optional,

7.  Get a wiki.sugarlabs.org  account,

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/

    * needed for maintaining Wiki content,

    * needed as part of moving Wiki content to GitHub,

    * for subscribing to edit 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Draft for submission(Maintaining 25 activities)

[Tony Anderson]

The idea that a competent programmer will spend the summer working on 
Sugar activities is exciting. However, the activities selected are the 
best maintained in our repertoire. The following is a list of 25 
activities that don't work (fail to start). These are activities from 
the ASLO archive. In general they are implemented in GTK and so need 
porting to GTK3 In most cases, no gitHub repository has been created. 
There are some which are architecture dependent and will need to select 
the correct binary from Intel, ARM, or 64-bit on launch.


Listen and Spell vocabulary, spelling, pronunciation isseu: Espeak
Anno Read with annotations issue: WebKit
Bubble toon top implements bubble popping game issue: Hulahop
Classroom Shares Sugar screen with connected XOs issue: subprocess call
Clic Player Game issue:Hulahop
Crikey Enhanced version of Measure issue: Dbus
EatBoom addition game issue: Flash
Elements activity on chemical elments issue: Hulahop
Image Processor apply image operations: blur, sharpen, ... issue: evince
JamCalibre Calibre issue: Calibre binary not found
JamEdit source code editor with highlighting issue: gtksourceview2
Joke Machine build library of jokes issue: Abiword
Jpeces Tangrams issue: X window
Madagascar information about Madagascar issue: Hulahop
Mathematical Adventure Fortune Hunter Role-playing game issue: vte
MathMe math game issue: launch issue
Minecraft emulates minecraft issue: Java
Neko cat follows XO mouse issue: gtksourceview2
Produce puzzle solve systems of equations with fruit as unknowns issue: vte
Puzzleton jigsaw puzzles issue: stop button
Restore restore part of backup-restore issue: stop button
Sketchometry fast sketching with geometrical shapes webkit issue
Sugar File Manager a file manager for sugar issue: gnomefs
Synonym_antonym activity improve vocabulary issue: malformed bundle
xophoto operations on photos, export-import from removable device issue: 
needs module wnck


bonus:

Bridge erect a bridge without letting it fall into the gap issue: box2d
Block Party implements tetris issue: sound
Blender 3D graphics issue:  bad bin file
Dr. Geo geometry issue: squeakvm

Tony


On 4/7/19 11:37 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
Looks good to me. Nice to see all the commit activity and links to 
open issues.


regards.

-walter

On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 4:48 AM aniket mathur 
mailto:aniketmathur...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Hello everyone, I am Aniket Mathur, attached is the pdf of my GSoC
proposal (Maintaining 25 activities). It is slightly modified as
compared to my last attachment. Thanks!
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [GSOC] Proposals for Create new set of activities

[Tony Anderson]

Walter,

The XO version (OLPC OS) is apparently capped at F18. There is also an 
apparent cap on the version of WebKit. I wish I had time to try this but 
I doubt I will be able to try it in the near term.  This is something 
that could be done by a GSOC candidate as part of getting on-board.


Tony


On 4/7/19 11:41 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
I did make (needs to be updated) xo bundling of Music Blocks in a 
Browse activity wrapper. The problem was, it would not run the synth 
on older machines. (It works in my F29 environment.) If you can 
confirm that MB works in Browse in your environment, I'll be inspired 
to update the bundle.


regards.

-walter

On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 4:52 PM Tony Anderson <mailto:t...@olenepal.org>> wrote:


Scratch is heavily used in Rwanda. The users do not find the 1.4
version
as a limitation.

As far as I can see, Music Blocks was not developed as a Sugar
Activity.
A worthwhile first step would be to see if it works in Gnome on an
XO.
This is presumably something a candidate with access to an XO can
do to
show interest and competence. This could provide insight into
whether it
would be feasible or worthwhile to port Music Blocks to Sugar

Tony


On 4/5/19 5:59 AM, James Cameron wrote:
> We have 17 draft or final proposals.  Most have also been
published on
> sugar-devel@, but not all.  None have addressed the Scratch related
> ideas.
>
> That's fine.  It's up to the students what they want to work on.  We
> gave them many ideas.  If Scratch were so important, we would have
> given them less ideas.
>
> I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with the ideas that
> mention Scratch.  Port Sugarizer activities to Sugar has the most
> detailed description;
>
>

https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md#port-sugarizer-activities-to-sugar
>
> I do think we are wrong to assume and hope that a student will adopt
> an idea.  If I were a student, I'd note;
>
> * it's not a new thing, but a port of an existing thing,
>
> * the technical complexity, or challenge, especially the work that
>    would be required in WebKit to support audio, (Browse, #85),
>
> * the history of little progress in the code that needs to be
>    maintained,
>
> * that few of the mentors have made any successful steps toward the
>    goal, and;
>
> * there's been more hot air (talk) than action (coding),
>
> I don't think we should be complaining about what students have
failed
> to propose.  We should be encouraging instead.
>
> So to any students out there thinking of a first, second, or third
> proposal, consider "Port Sugarizer activities to Sugar". ;-)
>
> On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 12:22:48PM +0100, Chihurumnaya Ibiam wrote:
>> I'm happy to see the students bring in their own ideas too, I'm
saying these
>> activity ideas are being neglected,
>> as all proposals suggested so far have been pointing towards
creating something
>> new, while that's great we also
>> need to improve on what already exists.
>> Although there wasn't a specified number of activities to be
created but I
>> don't think creating just one activity would be
>> great as proposals so far are only referring to creating just
one new activity,
>> while the idea says a "new set of activities".
>> For Scratch, there's also a mention in the "Port sugarizer
activities to Sugar"
>> idea but so far I've not seen a proposal for that.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ibiam Chihurumnaya
>> [1]ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com <mailto:ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 9:18 AM Rahul Bothra
<[2]rrbot...@gmail.com <mailto:rrbot...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>      Thanks for the suggestion.
>>
>>      I disagree. I am happy to see the students bringing in
their own ideas for
>>      activities.
>>      FWIW, we have already mentioned the suggested ideas, as
well as the
>>      resources to understand user experience. I would like to
give students the
>>      freedom to decide what they want to work on
>>
>>      On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 5:55 AM Chihurumnaya Ibiam <[3]
>> ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com
<mailto:ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>          Hi Everyone,
>>
>>          I've looked at the proposals for [4]create a new set
of activities and
>>          n

Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sugar- devel] My GSoC proposal for create new set of activities for Sugar

[Tony Anderson]

If you can do one of these two well enough to become part of the Sugar 
Activities Library in the GSOC period, it will be a notable achievement. 
Most of our GSOC projects fail to be finished and so the effort is lost 
as the participants return to school. As a professional programmer, I 
used to estimate the time required and then double it. I found most 
often that estimate was optimistic!


Tony

On 4/8/19 12:15 AM, Sumit Srivastava wrote:
You can write the third activity as a bonus activity and mention the 
fact that you might be able to complete these two activities before time.


If you can do things really fast, I'd suggest you to make some more 
pull requests really fast, because you've only mentioned one unmerged PR.


Regards

On Sun, 7 Apr 2019, 8:50 pm Rushabh Vasani, > wrote:


Thank you for your response !

 I have a doubt that, are my 2 activities enough for these 3
months. I am not able to figure out because I think I can do it in
only 2 months but my cousin who is my guide for GSoC told me to
only propose 2 activities. Though I am thinking that if I'll
complete these tow earlier I'll go for third one. So I am
proposing only 2 activities for now.

Thank you.


On Sun 7 Apr, 2019, 7:41 PM Sumit Srivastava
mailto:sumitsrisu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you, good idea of using resnet 50 for mecho. I had
something similar in my mind.

On Sun, 7 Apr 2019, 7:33 pm Rushabh Vasani,
mailto:vasanirushab...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

This is a doc file and PDF of my proposal for create new
set of activities please review it and give me feedback
and suggestions for it.
Apologising for sending it late.
Thank you !


--
Rushabh
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [GSOC] Proposals for Create new set of activities

[Tony Anderson]

Scratch is heavily used in Rwanda. The users do not find the 1.4 version 
as a limitation.


As far as I can see, Music Blocks was not developed as a Sugar Activity. 
A worthwhile first step would be to see if it works in Gnome on an XO. 
This is presumably something a candidate with access to an XO can do to 
show interest and competence. This could provide insight into whether it 
would be feasible or worthwhile to port Music Blocks to Sugar


Tony


On 4/5/19 5:59 AM, James Cameron wrote:

We have 17 draft or final proposals.  Most have also been published on
sugar-devel@, but not all.  None have addressed the Scratch related
ideas.

That's fine.  It's up to the students what they want to work on.  We
gave them many ideas.  If Scratch were so important, we would have
given them less ideas.

I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with the ideas that
mention Scratch.  Port Sugarizer activities to Sugar has the most
detailed description;

https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md#port-sugarizer-activities-to-sugar

I do think we are wrong to assume and hope that a student will adopt
an idea.  If I were a student, I'd note;

* it's not a new thing, but a port of an existing thing,

* the technical complexity, or challenge, especially the work that
   would be required in WebKit to support audio, (Browse, #85),

* the history of little progress in the code that needs to be
   maintained,

* that few of the mentors have made any successful steps toward the
   goal, and;

* there's been more hot air (talk) than action (coding),

I don't think we should be complaining about what students have failed
to propose.  We should be encouraging instead.

So to any students out there thinking of a first, second, or third
proposal, consider "Port Sugarizer activities to Sugar".  ;-)

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 12:22:48PM +0100, Chihurumnaya Ibiam wrote:

I'm happy to see the students bring in their own ideas too, I'm saying these
activity ideas are being neglected,
as all proposals suggested so far have been pointing towards creating something
new, while that's great we also
need to improve on what already exists.
Although there wasn't a specified number of activities to be created but I
don't think creating just one activity would be
great as proposals so far are only referring to creating just one new activity,
while the idea says a "new set of activities".
For Scratch, there's also a mention in the "Port sugarizer activities to Sugar"
idea but so far I've not seen a proposal for that.

--

Ibiam Chihurumnaya
[1]ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 9:18 AM Rahul Bothra <[2]rrbot...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Thanks for the suggestion.

 I disagree. I am happy to see the students bringing in their own ideas for
 activities.
 FWIW, we have already mentioned the suggested ideas, as well as the
 resources to understand user experience. I would like to give students the
 freedom to decide what they want to work on

 On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 5:55 AM Chihurumnaya Ibiam <[3]
 ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Hi Everyone,

 I've looked at the proposals for [4]create a new set of activities and
 none has addressed any of the activities proposed in the idea, although
 the project idea encourages new ideas but I think that we should
 clearly state the importance of the ones suggested as they're very
 important.
 Scratch for one is very important as it's currently widely used and
 having it in sugar would mean more users.

 I think that the importance of these ideas should be stated and they
 shouldn't be neglected as they have.

 Issue [5]#63.

 --
 
 Ibiam Chihurumnaya

 [6]ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com

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References:

[1] mailto:ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com
[2] mailto:rrbot...@gmail.com
[3] mailto:ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com
[4] 
https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md#create-a-new-set-of-activities
[5] https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/issues/63
[6] mailto:ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com
[7] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[8] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC Proposal for "New Sugar Activity"

[Tony Anderson]

It appears that you are making one activity out of two. It might be 
easier to construct two separate Sugar activities.


The second activity seems to depend on internet access. Perhaps 
two-thirds of our users have limited or no access to the internet.


Perhaps it is possible to construct the activity to access data 
alternatively from a usb drive (Storage on an XO laptop is very limited).


Keep in mind that our users do not speak English as a native language 
and are certainly not familiar with Latin. The Latin names are fair 
since they are equally unfamiiar to everyone. However, these names 
identify a set of objects with similar characteristics. Call it a canine 
or a dog, it is still referring to a four-legged mammal, etc. However, 
the characteristics of many phyla are not familiar to the average user.


Consider in making your activities how understandable any text used will 
be. Users who encounter problems, hit the stop button. The mantra is 
'low floor, high ceiling'.


Tony

On 4/2/19 3:31 AM, Manan Goel wrote:

Hi
This is my proposal for a New Sugar Activity. Please take a look at it 
and tell me how I could improve it.

Regards
Manan Goel

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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC: Proposal for "Create new activities"

[Tony Anderson]

Good start.

A reasonable way to start would be to install the server in gnome so 
that it works on the XO. This is going to be a bit tricky because Sugar 
on the XO is based on Fedora 18. One of the current modules required by 
pip is not supported by Fedora 18.


In considering how I might proceed, I decided it would be easiest to 
install Jupyter on Ubuntu 18.04 and use the sucre install of Sugar to 
build and test the 'Jupyter-activity' wrapper, pushing off the XO 
dependency issues.




Tony


On 3/30/19 1:49 PM, Muhammad Usman wrote:
I have personally used jupyter for a long time, so I have a fair 
amount of experience using it.


As I can see, jupyter-notebook kind of requires the whole GSoC period, 
therefore I would consider it as a separate project from the other and 
write a different proposal for it.


As for the design of the project, My understanding of going about 
doing the project is:
- Install jupyter using pip. Install additional libraries such as 
Latex to allow for the rendering of notebook as pdf and so on.
- Start with the jupyter server and modify the server to use journal, 
removable devices along with using the file system.

- Make changes to frontend to display the notebook options appropriately.
- Display each language as a separate notebook option.
- Write a wrapper around the server controlling the starting of server 
and the shutdown on exiting.

- Have examples and getting started tutorials.
- Lastly, have a detailed user documentation.

Thanks,
Muhammad Usman

On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 5:09 AM 
<mailto:sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org>> wrote:


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 16:38:47 +0800
    From: Tony Anderson mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>>
To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC: Proposal for "Create new activities"
Message-ID: mailto:a3f8d544-a6f6-35be-5fe1-6cc8e138d...@usa.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

The Jupyter Notebook project is of particular interest to me.

Over the past several GSOC periods, developers have had a problem
completing their projects within the allotted time. You are
proposing to
take on several projects, any one of which is a big load for one
summer.

If you undertake the Jupyter Notebook project, I would hope that
is your
only task for the summer. Completing it in a usable form in the GSOC
period would be a major, noteworthy accomplishment.

The Jupyter Notebook started life as ipython. The Jupyter
implementation
supports multiple programming languages (e.g. bash, python, web
(javascript, html5, css), and many others. It can also be used to
make
interactive lessons on science and mathematics topics independent of
programming).

The essence of the ipython server is that it accepts a url for a file
(*.ipynb). It then processes this file displaying cells and running
cells interactively based on the requirements of the notebook
author and
input from the user.

As an activity, (called for example, Jupyter-activity), it should
resume
.ipynb files in the Journal. The browser for this activity can be the
Browse activity (testing to be sure that the WebKit browser in the
Browse activity supports Jupyter). This is unlikely to be a
show-stopper. If executed with start-new, it should enable the
user to
designate a notebook to run (among those in the Journal, Documents
folder, or a mounted removable device). It should also enable a
user to
create a notebook.

The technology involved in this project is Jupyter. The team at
Jupyter
is friendly and helpful, in my experience. I doubt there will be an
significant need to modify the Browse activity. One limitation that
could be addressed en passant is that when Browse is resumed, it
launches a new instance rather than opening a tab in a running copy.
This is OK but seems primitive compared to other browsers.

There is a large library online of Jupyter notebooks with many
tutorials. The first step in this project is to become familiar with
these notebooks. Jupyter can be installed on Linux distributions via
Anaconda - but this is overkill for the XO. It can also be
installed by
yum (apt for Ubuntu) but better by pip.

The storage available to the XO is extremely limited (XO has 1GB,
other
models have 4GB). This means that the Anaconda implementation which
incorporates many additional valuable packages is probably too
large for
Sugar on an XO (still over 80% of the systems in the wild). Even
so, the
Pip install may need some optional capabilities such as Latex and
MatLab.

One of the critical parts of an implementation frequently gets
left to
the end and then is not done - user documentation. Thanks to Gonza

Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC proposal : creating new activity for Sugarizer

[Tony Anderson]

There is already a python sugar activity 'WordSearch' which for some 
reason does not appear in the Sugar Activities Library. Version 3 has 
the ability for the teaher (user) to prepare a list of words. The 
activity then creates the 'puzzle box' and allows the user to find the 
hidden words. The list of words is a simple text file with one word per 
line. It is put into the Journal and resumed (the activity process 
text/plain mime-type files).


If you would like a copy I can send one as an attacthment. Naturally 
what you propose would need to be writtten as a web activity.


Tony


On 3/29/19 3:35 AM, Sanjana Mundhra wrote:


Hey all!

I am Sanjana Mundhra, a third year B.Tech student from The LNM 
Institute of Information Technology, Jaipur.


Sugarizer has been providing some amusing learning activities for 
children and I hope to add mine to the list. What I came up with is a 
word search game with a few tweaks and variations.


 The game consists of letters of words placed in a grid. The objective 
of this puzzle is to find and mark all the horizontally, vertically, 
or diagonally placed words hidden inside the box. Click and drag over 
a word to check it off the list. They are fun to play, but also 
educational- in fact, many teachers make use of them.



  This will encourage the children to:

  * *Explore new topics.* Many word search puzzles have a theme to
which all the hidden words are related. Some of these are just for
fun, but a *topic* can also introduce essential vocabulary that
every child should possess.
  * *Improve spelling.* Young minds can learn new words and their
*spellings* by intensively searching for them, letter by letter,
in the puzzle. In fact they are rehearsing the spelling over and
over in their minds as they look for the letters the word contains.
  * *Improve concentration.* A valuable skill, concentration is
required to successfully complete this puzzle. It encourages the
brain to stay focused.
  * *Enhance visual acuity.* Eyes that are trained regularly to look
for small details will be stronger and more effective in many
situations.
  * *Form strategies.* Form various algorithms and strategies to
search quickly for words without even realising it.


We can add diagonal & backward written words at higher difficulty 
levels. Often a list of the hidden words is provided, but more 
challenging puzzles may let the player figure them out. On a more 
advanced level, word searches are good ways to demonstrate the use of 
searching algorithms. Other variations include solving given math 
puzzles and searching for the answer in the grid.



I am well acquainted with React js, a technology widely used in this 
organization and hope to contribute to it this summer as my GSOC 2019 
project. After studying the present activities in Sugarizer, I feel 
its a place where learning meets fun and I think this activity will 
help take this trend onward. This is just a rough idea of my proposal, 
all reviews and suggestions are most welcome.



Regards,

Sanjana Mundhra


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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC: Proposal for "Create new activities"

[Tony Anderson]

The Jupyter Notebook project is of particular interest to me.

Over the past several GSOC periods, developers have had a problem 
completing their projects within the allotted time. You are proposing to 
take on several projects, any one of which is a big load for one summer.


If you undertake the Jupyter Notebook project, I would hope that is your 
only task for the summer. Completing it in a usable form in the GSOC 
period would be a major, noteworthy accomplishment.


The Jupyter Notebook started life as ipython. The Jupyter implementation 
supports multiple programming languages (e.g. bash, python, web 
(javascript, html5, css), and many others. It can also be used to make 
interactive lessons on science and mathematics topics independent of 
programming).


The essence of the ipython server is that it accepts a url for a file 
(*.ipynb). It then processes this file displaying cells and running 
cells interactively based on the requirements of the notebook author and 
input from the user.


As an activity, (called for example, Jupyter-activity), it should resume 
.ipynb files in the Journal. The browser for this activity can be the 
Browse activity (testing to be sure that the WebKit browser in the 
Browse activity supports Jupyter). This is unlikely to be a 
show-stopper. If executed with start-new, it should enable the user to 
designate a notebook to run (among those in the Journal, Documents 
folder, or a mounted removable device). It should also enable a user to 
create a notebook.


The technology involved in this project is Jupyter. The team at Jupyter 
is friendly and helpful, in my experience. I doubt there will be an 
significant need to modify the Browse activity. One limitation that 
could be addressed en passant is that when Browse is resumed, it 
launches a new instance rather than opening a tab in a running copy. 
This is OK but seems primitive compared to other browsers.


There is a large library online of Jupyter notebooks with many 
tutorials. The first step in this project is to become familiar with 
these notebooks. Jupyter can be installed on Linux distributions via 
Anaconda - but this is overkill for the XO. It can also be installed by 
yum (apt for Ubuntu) but better by pip.


The storage available to the XO is extremely limited (XO has 1GB, other 
models have 4GB). This means that the Anaconda implementation which 
incorporates many additional valuable packages is probably too large for 
Sugar on an XO (still over 80% of the systems in the wild). Even so, the 
Pip install may need some optional capabilities such as Latex and MatLab.


One of the critical parts of an implementation frequently gets left to 
the end and then is not done - user documentation. Thanks to Gonzalo 
Odiard, Sugar has an excellent documentation capability based on Sphinx 
- see help.sugarlabs.org. The 'Jupyter-activity' will need documentation 
that meets the needs of primary school students with limited computer 
experience and limited skills in Englsih. This could include a 
recommended library of Jupyter notebooks which can be used on the XO 
(esp. bash, python, and web langauges).


Tony

Tony

On 3/29/19 3:52 PM, James Cameron wrote:

Thanks, interesting.

Technical comments; Jupyter Notebook Activity, you suggest stripping
down Browse activity.  You might instead presume Browse is present
and call it directly.  This is what the Wikipedia activity does.  It
isn't what the Help activity does.

Please also consider the design and user requirements input in this
closed issue; https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/issues/13 Especially
note Jupyter Lab; a richer environment than a browser alone.

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 06:22:03PM +0530, Muhammad Usman wrote:

Hello all!
I am Muhammad Usman. I am sharing my draft proposal for Create New Activities
and Write activity in Sugarizer. Please do take a look at it and let me know
your thoughts.
[1]https://gist.github.com/usmanmuhd/ce60a3dd2c43fd5c5fe5154b5bc18750

Regards,
Muhammad Usman

References:

[1] https://gist.github.com/usmanmuhd/ce60a3dd2c43fd5c5fe5154b5bc18750
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GTranslator-1?

[Tony Anderson]

Thanks. At the moment I am focusing on which activities work and which 
don't. This looks like a good strategy when I get further down the trail.
I think there are probably a number of activities where we should wrap 
the upstream modules and make it easier to keep up-to-date (per GCompris).


Tony.

On 3/8/19 1:49 PM, James Cameron wrote:

Cause was Ezequiel Pereira's commit
https://github.com/sugarlabs/GTranslator/commit/01910f94b43057252a160d027869004b0d2a3057
which added binaries for certain systems only, with the assumption
that those systems would have the libgtksourceview library already
installed.

You might be able to fix it by installing that library, but not if the
library version has changed since.

The v1 bundle in activities.sugarlabs.org is correct for XO-1 and
XO-1.5 only.

The only difference between the v1 bundle and the head of the master
branch on GitHub is Ezequiel's commit.

I suggest long term remove the binaries, remove all libraries except
libsugarize, bring the shell script closer to what it was, and install
the gtranslator package for the operating system.

On Fri, Mar 08, 2019 at 01:18:38PM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

The activity GTranslator Version 1 in ASLO (dated June 30, 2010) is not the
same as the version in github.com/sugarlabs.

The github version 1 - dated Jan. 27, 2016 attempts to execute correct
binaries for i686, Arm, and amd-64. However, it fails to start in either of
the first two cases: "error while loading shared libraries:
libgtksourceview-3.0.so.1: cannot open shared object file.

Tony

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[Sugar-devel] GTranslator-1?

[Tony Anderson]

The activity GTranslator Version 1 in ASLO (dated June 30, 2010) is not 
the same as the version in github.com/sugarlabs.


The github version 1 - dated Jan. 27, 2016 attempts to execute correct 
binaries for i686, Arm, and amd-64. However, it fails to start in either 
of the first two cases: "error while loading shared libraries: 
libgtksourceview-3.0.so.1: cannot open shared object file.


Tony

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Help-21 fails to start

[Tony Anderson]

James,

Thanks for getting me on the right track.

unzipp help-activity-master.zip (download from Godiard's github repo)
install sphinx (pippy install python-sphinx).
go to the unzipped help-activity folder:
    cd /home/tony/Downloads/help-activity-master
    make html
using Nautilus (files), open html/index.html in browser.

This works independent of Sugar.

Tony

On 3/7/19 3:02 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:

Thanks. I'll keep trying to see if I can find a path.

Tony

On 3/7/19 2:47 PM, James Cameron wrote:

Yes, as I said, both Sphinx and "make html" are needed before making
the bundle.

On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 02:43:33PM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:
I am trying to install help-20 (from Godiard's repository). I 
downloaded the
zip and put it in an XO-1.75 in /home/olpc/Documents. I then 
unzipped it and

ran python setup.py dist_xo. I then installed the activity via
sugar-install-bundle. However, it behaves as before.

I am speculating that what is expected to happen is that the html 
versions
of the documentation are to be created via the make html. I am 
speculating
that this make command depends on an installed python-sphinx 
package. I was
able to install the Sphinx on my Ubuntu laptop by pippy. However, 
pippy does

not appear to be installed on the XO's.

My next step is to try the make html to see if it generates the html
version.

Tony


On 3/6/19 11:25 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Thanks for your interest.

There's no Help-21 yet.  Latest is Help-20.

https://github.com/godiard/help-activity is the most recent source
code, not https://github.com/sugarlabs/help-activity.  The latter is
an informative fork.

There should be no html/index.html file in the repository, as it is a
file generated by building.  The repository is not an activity bundle,
but source code for building an activity bundle.  The instructions to
build the bundle include
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Help/Contribute#How_to_get_freshest_Help_sources, 


in particular the dependencies such as Sphinx must be installed, then
use "make html", and the dist_xo target of setup.py

You'll also see that setup.py is quite different to other activities.

I'm yet to make a new release of Help since v20 in 2015, but it is on
my list to do.  In deploying it as v20.1 on OLPC laptops, I maintain a
separate branch, and patch the Sugar version to match what is
installed.

https://github.com/godiard/help-activity/issues has a list of issues.

On Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:41:11AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:
The version of the Help activity in github.com/sugarlabs has only 
an es

folder in the html folder. It fails to start when trying to display
html/inde.html (not found).

Tony

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Help-21 fails to start

[Tony Anderson]

Thanks. I'll keep trying to see if I can find a path.

Tony

On 3/7/19 2:47 PM, James Cameron wrote:

Yes, as I said, both Sphinx and "make html" are needed before making
the bundle.

On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 02:43:33PM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

I am trying to install help-20 (from Godiard's repository). I downloaded the
zip and put it in an XO-1.75 in /home/olpc/Documents. I then unzipped it and
ran python setup.py dist_xo. I then installed the activity via
sugar-install-bundle. However, it behaves as before.

I am speculating that what is expected to happen is that the html versions
of the documentation are to be created via the make html. I am speculating
that this make command depends on an installed python-sphinx package. I was
able to install the Sphinx on my Ubuntu laptop by pippy. However, pippy does
not appear to be installed on the XO's.

My next step is to try the make html to see if it generates the html
version.

Tony


On 3/6/19 11:25 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Thanks for your interest.

There's no Help-21 yet.  Latest is Help-20.

https://github.com/godiard/help-activity is the most recent source
code, not https://github.com/sugarlabs/help-activity.  The latter is
an informative fork.

There should be no html/index.html file in the repository, as it is a
file generated by building.  The repository is not an activity bundle,
but source code for building an activity bundle.  The instructions to
build the bundle include
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Help/Contribute#How_to_get_freshest_Help_sources,
in particular the dependencies such as Sphinx must be installed, then
use "make html", and the dist_xo target of setup.py

You'll also see that setup.py is quite different to other activities.

I'm yet to make a new release of Help since v20 in 2015, but it is on
my list to do.  In deploying it as v20.1 on OLPC laptops, I maintain a
separate branch, and patch the Sugar version to match what is
installed.

https://github.com/godiard/help-activity/issues has a list of issues.

On Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:41:11AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

The version of the Help activity in github.com/sugarlabs has only an es
folder in the html folder. It fails to start when trying to display
html/inde.html (not found).

Tony

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Help-21 fails to start

[Tony Anderson]

I am trying to install help-20 (from Godiard's repository). I downloaded 
the zip and put it in an XO-1.75 in /home/olpc/Documents. I then 
unzipped it and ran python setup.py dist_xo. I then installed the 
activity via sugar-install-bundle. However, it behaves as before.


I am speculating that what is expected to happen is that the html 
versions of the documentation are to be created via the make html. I am 
speculating that this make command depends on an installed python-sphinx 
package. I was able to install the Sphinx on my Ubuntu laptop by pippy. 
However, pippy does not appear to be installed on the XO's.


My next step is to try the make html to see if it generates the html 
version.


Tony


On 3/6/19 11:25 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Thanks for your interest.

There's no Help-21 yet.  Latest is Help-20.

https://github.com/godiard/help-activity is the most recent source
code, not https://github.com/sugarlabs/help-activity.  The latter is
an informative fork.

There should be no html/index.html file in the repository, as it is a
file generated by building.  The repository is not an activity bundle,
but source code for building an activity bundle.  The instructions to
build the bundle include
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Help/Contribute#How_to_get_freshest_Help_sources,
in particular the dependencies such as Sphinx must be installed, then
use "make html", and the dist_xo target of setup.py

You'll also see that setup.py is quite different to other activities.

I'm yet to make a new release of Help since v20 in 2015, but it is on
my list to do.  In deploying it as v20.1 on OLPC laptops, I maintain a
separate branch, and patch the Sugar version to match what is
installed.

https://github.com/godiard/help-activity/issues has a list of issues.

On Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 10:41:11AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

The version of the Help activity in github.com/sugarlabs has only an es
folder in the html folder. It fails to start when trying to display
html/inde.html (not found).

Tony

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[Sugar-devel] Helo-21 fails to start

[Tony Anderson]

The version of the Help activity in github.com/sugarlabs has only an es 
folder in the html folder. It fails to start when trying to display 
html/inde.html (not found).


Tony

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURE] Create an adapter that calls the third parties/libraries for better maintainability.

[Tony Anderson]

Alejandro García

Generally, I believe you first need to know how to do something several 
times before deciding to automate. In that case, the question is whether 
the automation will be used enough to justify the implementation time 
and effort and whether the automation will make the process enough 
faster and easier to be worthwhile. Being inherently lazy, I love the 
idea of software which makes my life easier. However, most often I have 
spent more time implementing the solution than it would have cost to do 
the job directly.


Would you be willing to spend some time working on some of these 
critical problems directly? You are pointing to serious issues which at 
the moment are not being handled by Sugar_Devel. The following is a list 
off the top of my head of open issues. Some of these can be handled 
directly and simply. Others such as the activity.info issue may take 
some development effort.


Collaboration is considered an important capability for an activity. How 
many activities now support collaboration. How many use Collabwrapper? 
How many of these are suitable for porting to Colllabwrapper?


How many activities in ASLO are based on pygames. As I understand it, 
upgrade to gtk3 depends on using pygames with olpcgames. This is 
currently done with only one activity (Simulate Activity). How many 
activities depend on pygames? What is required to use olpcgames with 
pygames? Is a special gtk3 compatible version of pygames required?


How many activities in ASLO are not yet ported to GTK3? In general any 
activity in ASLO which does not have a github repository. However, there 
are activities in github which have not been converted (and some 
attempted conversions).


The sound in Block Party is not working because of an incorrect use of 
C-Sound. Are there any other activities affected? What is required to 
fix the problem?


The Bridge activity fails because of its use of Box2D. How many 
activities depend on Box2D? What is the required version of Box2D and 
what is required to interface to it?


There are some activities which depend on Java runtime. The Java-1 
activity is intended as a 'shim' but is not capable. How should Java be 
installed as a possibly optional sugar tool so that it can be used by 
any activity that needs it?


There are activities that still use deprecated parameter names in 
activity.info. The solution is to put a warning in the log outpu of that 
activity. How hare would it be to prepare a script that fixed the 
property names in all activities in ASLO? This one involves small 
changes to many activities so some means acceptable to James Cameron 
will be needed to make these changes to the activities in ASLO (and in 
gitHub). Putting the changes in the form of a Pull Request by script may 
be prohibitive.


There are activities that still use hulahop although that has been gone 
since 0.98. Which activiteis have this problem and is there a common way 
to upgrade to WebKit? (Note: this means these activities have not been 
available to our users for years!).


There are activities which fail because of a dependency on vte. How many 
and what is the issue that causes them to fail?


As always, the first step in solving a problem is to identify it. 
Solution space should be avoided until this is done. I don't have enough 
information to believe that development of a general software tool is 
the most effective way forward.


One exception may be to develop an automated means to test the suite of 
activities in a specific execution environment. From what I have seen, 
what might be practical is a Bash or Python script which downloads via 
Browse each activity in turn, executes it, and determines whether the 
activity started or failed to start, and then erases it. In many cases, 
regression with new releases results from changes in the dependencies. 
Often they cause the activity to fail to start.
Detecting this outcome may be facilitated by a change to Sugar which 
causes a specific signal when an activity fails to start that the script 
can use. A more complicated step may be to mine the logs to report the 
problem encountered. This is of lower priority since the number of 
failed activities should be small and consulting the logs is not difficult.


There is a lot of work to be done and much of it of immediate, direct 
and significant value to our user community.


Tony


On 2/16/19 2:27 AM, Alejandro García wrote:
I want to reduce the impact of an update of a third party in all the 
activities, avoiding the need of change each activity when it happens.


Examples of what I want to avoid are the activities that were updated 
from gtk2 to gtk3 and those that still need to be updated.



On Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 11:28 PM James Cameron  wrote:


On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 10:04:02PM -0600, Alejandro García wrote:
> Let's discard the adapter/shim (main goal is to reduce the
dependency).
>
> Isn't there anything that we can do 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Tony Anderson]

Naturally, the key is volunteer activity by the community. As always 
identify the non-working activities, identify common problems which can 
be handled such as conversion to GTK3, and anyone who wants take that 
on. For testers and reviewers, get help from out users. If we set up a 
'help' path to our users, we might start getting input on the problems 
they have encountered.


Tony



On 1/24/19 2:28 AM, James Cameron wrote:

No, thanks!  What my time can accomplish was given only as an
indication of the size of the solved part of the overall problem.

OLPC continues to pay me to work on our education solution, which
includes Sugar and these activities.  The rest of my time is already
sold.

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 07:27:56AM -0500, Dave Crossland wrote:

James, are you soliciting SL pay you as a contractor to fix Activities not on
the list?

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019, 1:15 AM James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 Nice idea, but hasn't happened yet, and I don't expect it to ever
 happen without scaling up the number of testers and fixers.

 We just don't have enough people paying attention.

 How would you propose that attention be purchased?  Sugar Labs has
 $95k we could spend.  You've seen from the list what my time can
 accomplish each year, and that's not 100% of my time.

 On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 08:03:16AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
 > My original point was that as a community we should view the activities
 on
 > ASLO as a corpus to be treasured and protected. No activity can be either
 > abandoned or orphaned. It is the responsibility of the community. When a
 > change 'upstream' breaks an activity or set of activities, the problem
 > should be resolved as soon as possible.
 >
 > Tony
 >
 > On 1/23/19 6:07 AM, James Cameron wrote:
 > >On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 09:54:08PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote:
 > >>On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 9:13 PM James Cameron <[1][2]qu...@laptop.org>
 wrote:
 > >>
 > >>     On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 01:29:56PM -0500, Devin Ulibarri wrote:
 > >>     > Hi,
 > >>     >
 > >>     > This was my experience:
 > >>     >
 > >>     >   • I came into SugarLabs community at the time that this
 migration was
 > >>     >     beginning to happen.
 > >>     >   • I started a GH account because that is where I was told the
 software
 > >>     was
 > >>     >     being maintained.
 > >>     >   • I have continued to "go with the flow" and work via GH
 although I
 > >>     have come
 > >>     >     to understand more of the history and context of this
 matter.
 > >>     >
 > >>     > These are my thoughts and opinions:
 > >>     >
 > >>     >   • I remember an argument that one reason to move to GH is
 "that is
 > >>     where all
 > >>     >     the developers are", but since our migration I have seen so
 many kids
 > >>     >     (usually GCI) set up new accounts with GH in order to
 contribute to
 > >>     SL (and
 > >>     >     to participate in GCI). This makes me think that many people
 are
 > >>     willing to
 > >>     >     join our development regardless of whatever tools/services
 we use,
 > >>     and
 > >>     >     whatever tool/services we use, if they are not yet setup
 with them,
 > >>     they
 > >>     >     are willing to get setup in order to join development.
 > >>     >   • Another argument seems to boil down to "we will be more
 productive
 > >>     using GH
 > >>     >     because we need not worry about the hassle of maintaining
 our own
 > >>     code
 > >>     >     hosting service". Is there evidence that we are more
 productive now
 > >>     than
 > >>     >     before? Not having the opportunity to learn/use the other
 systems, I
 > >>     would
 > >>     >     only be guessing.
 > >>
 > >>     Not much evidence, it's about the same.  Like any tooling, you get
 > >>     good at it with time.  More productive now through the pull
 request
 > >>     and issue integration, but less productive through loss of
 situational
 > >>     awareness; changes are hidden in GitHub rather than being posted
 to
 > >>     sugar-devel@, and new developers fixate on their favourite
 > >>     r

Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Tony Anderson]

My naive view is that if we seriously undertake the task, others will join.

As an example, now that we have Sugar on Ubuntu 18.04, we could easily 
install every activity on a laptop and test in Sugar by launching to see 
if it shows the opening screen or gives 'failed to start'. In the latter 
case, the Log activity can show the immediate cause of failure. In 
almost every case, the activity did run but has died of software rust.


Tony

On 1/23/19 8:15 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Nice idea, but hasn't happened yet, and I don't expect it to ever
happen without scaling up the number of testers and fixers.

We just don't have enough people paying attention.

How would you propose that attention be purchased?  Sugar Labs has
$95k we could spend.  You've seen from the list what my time can
accomplish each year, and that's not 100% of my time.

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 08:03:16AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:

My original point was that as a community we should view the activities on
ASLO as a corpus to be treasured and protected. No activity can be either
abandoned or orphaned. It is the responsibility of the community. When a
change 'upstream' breaks an activity or set of activities, the problem
should be resolved as soon as possible.

Tony

On 1/23/19 6:07 AM, James Cameron wrote:

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 09:54:08PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote:

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 9:13 PM James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 01:29:56PM -0500, Devin Ulibarri wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > This was my experience:
 >
 >   • I came into SugarLabs community at the time that this migration was
 >     beginning to happen.
 >   • I started a GH account because that is where I was told the software
 was
 >     being maintained.
 >   • I have continued to "go with the flow" and work via GH although I
 have come
 >     to understand more of the history and context of this matter.
 >
 > These are my thoughts and opinions:
 >
 >   • I remember an argument that one reason to move to GH is "that is
 where all
 >     the developers are", but since our migration I have seen so many kids
 >     (usually GCI) set up new accounts with GH in order to contribute to
 SL (and
 >     to participate in GCI). This makes me think that many people are
 willing to
 >     join our development regardless of whatever tools/services we use,
 and
 >     whatever tool/services we use, if they are not yet setup with them,
 they
 >     are willing to get setup in order to join development.
 >   • Another argument seems to boil down to "we will be more productive
 using GH
 >     because we need not worry about the hassle of maintaining our own
 code
 >     hosting service". Is there evidence that we are more productive now
 than
 >     before? Not having the opportunity to learn/use the other systems, I
 would
 >     only be guessing.

 Not much evidence, it's about the same.  Like any tooling, you get
 good at it with time.  More productive now through the pull request
 and issue integration, but less productive through loss of situational
 awareness; changes are hidden in GitHub rather than being posted to
 sugar-devel@, and new developers fixate on their favourite
 repositories.

 >   • In theory, SL running its own version control, seems to me like it
 would be
 >     a) more fun for someone interested in this kind of work, b) a
 learning
 >     opportunity, and c) gives maximum freedom/flexibility to the ways in
 which
 >     we would like to do development.

 [2]git.sugarlabs.org hasn't needed any significant maintenance, and is
 probably insecure now because of vulnerabilities that haven't been
 patched.

 [3]bugs.sugarlabs.org has needed updates, but they have generally worked
 well.

The spam issue made it almost unusable.

 >   • I would rather be using software that is licensed under a FLOSS
 license
 >     than a proprietary license. [4]gnu.org came up with some criteria to
 evaluate
 >     "code hosting services" such as GH: [1][5]https://www.gnu.org/
 software/
 >     repo-criteria.html (which, btw, gets an "F", the lowest grade) The
 whole
 >     reason I am in this in the first place is because I believe the free/
 libre
 >     model of software to be the best for society and education.

 Yes, I agree.  Setting up an instance of GitLab could be done, but we
 would need someone willing to do that and maintain it.  Or we could
 use GitLab directly as other projects have done.

What does that accomplish at this point? (That being said, I use GitLab for
other projects and it works just fine.)

A

Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Tony Anderson]

My original point was that as a community we should view the activities 
on ASLO as a corpus to be treasured and protected. No activity can be 
either abandoned or orphaned. It is the responsibility of the community. 
When a change 'upstream' breaks an activity or set of activities, the 
problem should be resolved as soon as possible.


Tony

On 1/23/19 6:07 AM, James Cameron wrote:

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 09:54:08PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote:

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 9:13 PM James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 01:29:56PM -0500, Devin Ulibarri wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > This was my experience:
 >
 >   • I came into SugarLabs community at the time that this migration was
 >     beginning to happen.
 >   • I started a GH account because that is where I was told the software
 was
 >     being maintained.
 >   • I have continued to "go with the flow" and work via GH although I
 have come
 >     to understand more of the history and context of this matter.
 >
 > These are my thoughts and opinions:
 >
 >   • I remember an argument that one reason to move to GH is "that is
 where all
 >     the developers are", but since our migration I have seen so many kids
 >     (usually GCI) set up new accounts with GH in order to contribute to
 SL (and
 >     to participate in GCI). This makes me think that many people are
 willing to
 >     join our development regardless of whatever tools/services we use,
 and
 >     whatever tool/services we use, if they are not yet setup with them,
 they
 >     are willing to get setup in order to join development.
 >   • Another argument seems to boil down to "we will be more productive
 using GH
 >     because we need not worry about the hassle of maintaining our own
 code
 >     hosting service". Is there evidence that we are more productive now
 than
 >     before? Not having the opportunity to learn/use the other systems, I
 would
 >     only be guessing.

 Not much evidence, it's about the same.  Like any tooling, you get
 good at it with time.  More productive now through the pull request
 and issue integration, but less productive through loss of situational
 awareness; changes are hidden in GitHub rather than being posted to
 sugar-devel@, and new developers fixate on their favourite
 repositories.

 >   • In theory, SL running its own version control, seems to me like it
 would be
 >     a) more fun for someone interested in this kind of work, b) a
 learning
 >     opportunity, and c) gives maximum freedom/flexibility to the ways in
 which
 >     we would like to do development.

 [2]git.sugarlabs.org hasn't needed any significant maintenance, and is
 probably insecure now because of vulnerabilities that haven't been
 patched.

 [3]bugs.sugarlabs.org has needed updates, but they have generally worked
 well.

The spam issue made it almost unusable.

 >   • I would rather be using software that is licensed under a FLOSS
 license
 >     than a proprietary license. [4]gnu.org came up with some criteria to
 evaluate
 >     "code hosting services" such as GH: [1][5]https://www.gnu.org/
 software/
 >     repo-criteria.html (which, btw, gets an "F", the lowest grade) The
 whole
 >     reason I am in this in the first place is because I believe the free/
 libre
 >     model of software to be the best for society and education.

 Yes, I agree.  Setting up an instance of GitLab could be done, but we
 would need someone willing to do that and maintain it.  Or we could
 use GitLab directly as other projects have done.

What does that accomplish at this point? (That being said, I use GitLab for
other projects and it works just fine.)

All I can think of is closer compliance with intent of FSA 2(b), that
any and all software and documentation distributed by the Project will
be distributed solely as Free Software.  But I've not heard from the
Conservancy on this.

I don't think there are any other things that would be accomplished,
so it's not something I'm inclined to ask about.

But I acknowledge Devin's concern; I too would rather be using
software that is licensed FLOSS than what we currently do.


 >
 > Devin
 >
 > On Tue, 2019-01-22 at 07:15 +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
 >
 >     Walter,
 >
 >     I will try. I am moving on Feb 3 to Palawan. I'll try to get to it
 then. My
 >     principal concern re GSOC is to define projects with manageable scope
 -
 >     many of the past projects ended undelivered.
 >
 >     Tony
 >
 >    

Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Tony Anderson]

Walter,

I will try. I am moving on Feb 3 to Palawan. I'll try to get to it then. 
My principal concern re GSOC is to define projects with manageable scope 
- many of the past projects ended undelivered.


Tony

On 1/21/19 3:10 PM, Walter Bender wrote:



On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 3:44 AM James Cameron <mailto:qu...@laptop.org>> wrote:


Fascinating, I never thought the move to GitHub was ever going to
achieve all that.  It was to enable a shutdown of the unmaintained
gitorious instance at git.sugarlabs.org
<http://git.sugarlabs.org>. Which still hasn't happened
because it is still useful, in turn because this community hasn't the
time to do the necessary leg work to finish the move to GitHub.


I would be curious what is still on Gitorious that hasn't been migrated.

FWIW, my principle motivations for the move were (1) as James points 
out -- on less piece of infrastructure for us to maintain; and (2) 
GitHub for better or worse is much more familiar to and likely to be 
discovered by potential developers. I think GH has been a decent tool 
which requires minimal effort on our part. Not sure that the latter 
really amounts to too much.


Re Tony's point about the ownership model, I don't see that anything 
we are doing suggests we don't want to continue to support individual 
contributions. I interpreted James's list not as a matter of ownership 
but rather a surfacing of what is actually happening re maintenance. 
In some sense, what is being articulated is the equivalent of the 
Fructose vs Honey nomenclature of the past where the core developers 
are saying: "These activities will be maintained. Cannot speak for 
everything else."


That said, I think Tony makes a great point re thinking about the 
pedagogical implications of our choices, which have had little if any 
input from the learning side of the house. Would be great to get more 
input to help us in regard to what is most valuable to our users 
(whether they know it or not). @Tony Anderson 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net> would be great if you could rework you 
thoughts about Python into a GSoC idea.


regards.

-walter

In short, it has nothing to do with the tools, and everything to do
with contributors.

I'll continue to focus on the activities I've got on my list.  That
doesn't mean I won't help with the other activities, but I won't
necessarily spend as much time with the others.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar
activities,
> this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the
move of the
> activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in
which individuals
> develop, contribute and own activities. There can be no
abandoned or orphaned
> activities in a community support model.
>
> It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two
factors which made
> that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar
software support such
> as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities
necessary and,
> second, that many of the original contributors are no longer
involved with
> Sugar.
>
> GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community
would support
> Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice
support for
> activities has become increasingly limited to a small number of
ones selected
> for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.
>
> The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via
ASLO.
> Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub
which have not
> been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There
is even
> confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that
developers can use
> any method they chose. What is controlled is the repository on
gitHub. Any
> changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are invisible until
they are submitted
> as a new version.
>
> Educational intent
>
> What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy
of Sugar.
> Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code
working,
> submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the
software tools
> needed to develop activities in Sugar - no cross-development,
containers, or
> virtual environments. Instead of requesting new contributors to
demonstrate
> their technical proficiency by putting their name on the XO icon
in the Home
> View, identify some real examples of changes that would improve
Sugar. There
> are plenty available:
>
> Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of
 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, James

This is a disagreement with Walter from day one. ASLO is a means to 
maintain the library of Sugar activities in use for nearly a decade. 
Introducing gitHub created an obstacle for our users as contributors. 
Another disagreement I have with Walter is the concept of replacing 
ASLO. This has been tried more than once without meeting the test of 
providing something better. The reasns I mentioned were the ones Walter 
offered in justification of the change.


Gitorious was not a part of the conversation because it was never part 
of the ASLO process. You may remember my faux pas in trying to assist in 
the transition  to gitHub. As I see the process proposed by Walter, each 
activity on ASLO, should have a corresponding repository on Sugar Labs 
gitHub. Contributors should submit new versions of activities as Pull 
Requests. These submissions should be reviewed and tested by Sugar users 
before release. When released, the new versions should be put on ASLO 
for use by our community. There is nothing in this process that requires 
(or should require) a contributor to use gitHub, gitorious or, indeed, 
any version control system. The version control comes through the 
submission process. Certainly, no developer should develop on SugarLabs 
github. It should only see Pull Requests reflecting new versions. 
Naturally this process is essentially different from that which applies 
to Sugar development.


Tony


On 1/21/19 10:44 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Fascinating, I never thought the move to GitHub was ever going to
achieve all that.  It was to enable a shutdown of the unmaintained
gitorious instance at git.sugarlabs.org.  Which still hasn't happened
because it is still useful, in turn because this community hasn't the
time to do the necessary leg work to finish the move to GitHub.

In short, it has nothing to do with the tools, and everything to do
with contributors.

I'll continue to focus on the activities I've got on my list.  That
doesn't mean I won't help with the other activities, but I won't
necessarily spend as much time with the others.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:

While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar activities,
this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the move of the
activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in which individuals
develop, contribute and own activities. There can be no abandoned or orphaned
activities in a community support model.

It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two factors which made
that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar software support such
as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities necessary and,
second, that many of the original contributors are no longer involved with
Sugar.

GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community would support
Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice support for
activities has become increasingly limited to a small number of ones selected
for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.

The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via ASLO.
Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub which have not
been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There is even
confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that developers can use
any method they chose. What is controlled is the repository on gitHub. Any
changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are invisible until they are submitted
as a new version.

Educational intent

What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy of Sugar.
Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code working,
submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the software tools
needed to develop activities in Sugar - no cross-development, containers, or
virtual environments. Instead of requesting new contributors to demonstrate
their technical proficiency by putting their name on the XO icon in the Home
View, identify some real examples of changes that would improve Sugar. There
are plenty available:

Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of switching to
gnome by clicking on the big toe.
When you take a screenshot and switch to the Journal to give it a title, you
must use the Frame to return, not the Activity key.
The kids love the ability to customize their laptop with a background picture.
Unfortunately this often makes the icons in the Home View invisible.
Add Jupyter Notebook as a built-in capability of Sugar (possibly as a service
of Browse).
Help solve problems with a long list of activities (such as the lack of sound
in Block Party).
Find a way for Browse to support the css FlexBox.

Stop using Pippy as a ceiling to our users learning to program in Python. They
can work up to 'Make your own Sugar Activities'.  Start with the Hello World
activity. Explain GTK and its benefits. PyDebug provides recipes for many
common coding

Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Tony Anderson]

While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar 
activities, this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the 
move of the activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in 
which individuals develop, contribute and own activities. There can be 
no abandoned or orphaned activities in a community support model.


It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two factors which 
made that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar software 
support such as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities 
necessary and, second, that many of the original contributors are no 
longer involved with Sugar.


GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community would 
support Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice 
support for activities has become increasingly limited to a small number 
of ones selected for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.


The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via ASLO. 
Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub which 
have not been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There 
is even confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that 
developers can use any method they chose. What is controlled is the 
repository on gitHub. Any changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are 
invisible until they are submitted as a new version.

*
*
*Educational intent*

What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy of 
Sugar. Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code 
working, submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the 
software tools needed to develop activities in Sugar - no 
cross-development, containers, or virtual environments. Instead of 
requesting new contributors to demonstrate their technical proficiency 
by putting their name on the XO icon in the Home View, identify some 
real examples of changes that would improve Sugar. There are plenty 
available:


Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of switching 
to gnome by clicking on the big toe.
When you take a screenshot and switch to the Journal to give it a title, 
you must use the Frame to return, not the Activity key.
The kids love the ability to customize their laptop with a background 
picture. Unfortunately this often makes the icons in the Home View 
invisible.
Add Jupyter Notebook as a built-in capability of Sugar (possibly as a 
service of Browse).
Help solve problems with a long list of activities (such as the lack of 
sound in Block Party).

Find a way for Browse to support the css FlexBox.

Stop using Pippy as a ceiling to our users learning to program in 
Python. They can work up to 'Make your own Sugar Activities'.  Start 
with the Hello World activity. Explain GTK and its benefits. PyDebug 
provides recipes for many common coding situations. Stop hiding the 
Terminal and Log activities - try to encourage them to become favorites. 
Soon we could see a new generation of user-programmers as we did in 
Uruguay.


Along this theme, we should embrace the RPI and its compatriots as a way 
to make embedded computing tangible. It would not be difficult to 
connect such a device via the Ad Hoc network so that it could be used to 
transfer a program written on an XO to the device and execute it with 
the user seeing the results on LEDs (e.g. Sense Hat).


Tony

On 1/20/19 3:48 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
I noticed Dimensions fell off the list. I will take that one on as I 
think it is of real value.


-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 8:44 AM James Cameron > wrote:


Thanks. So the list looks like;

# Walter Bender

* Music Blocks,
* Turtle Blocks JS,

# Rahul Bothra

* CowBulls,
* Flappy,
* Cedit,
* Polari,

# James Cameron

* Abacus,
* Browse (master),
* Browse (fedora 18 - webkit - v157.x),
* Calculator,
* Chart,
* Chat,
* Clock,
* Develop,
* Distance,
* Finance,
* Find Words,
* Fototoon,
* Fraction Bounce,
* Gears,
* GetBooks,
* Help,
* ImageViewer,
* Implode,
* Jukebox,
* Labyrinth,
* Letters,
* Log,
* Maze,
* Measure,
* Memorize,
* Moon (master),
* Moon (fedora 18 - gtk2 - v17.x),
* MusicKeyboard (master),
* MusicKeyboard (fedora 18 - csound - v8.x),
* Paint,
* Physics,
* Pippy,
* Poll,
* Portfolio,
* Read (master),
* Read (fedora 18 - webkit - v118.x),
* Record (master),
* Record (fedora 18 - gstreamer - v10x),
* SimpleEnglishWikipedia,
* Speak,
* StopWatch,
* Story,
* Terminal,
* TurtleBlocks,
* Words,
* Write,

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 09:04:50AM -0500, Walter Bender wrote:
> I am actively maintaining Music Blocks and Turtle Blocks JS.
> I just haven't had the bandwidth to do much beyond that of late.
That said, I
> am happy to kibbutz on any 

Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC project ideas

[Tony Anderson]

This project was not completed given the limited time available to GSOC 
projects. It fell victim to the common problem of expanding the goals 
beyond the available resources. Currently I believe Jupyter Notebook is 
a better solution if it can be added to Sugar.


Tony

On 1/18/19 7:40 AM, James Cameron wrote:

G'day Utkarsh,

Thanks, very interesting.  Would you like the activity to be hosted at
Sugar Labs?  At the moment you have it in your own profile.  I'm not
surprised I'd forgotten all about it, and perhaps others had too.

I note there are no releases tagged and no bundle available from
activities.sugarlabs.org; do you plan anything like that?  Is it ready?

On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 05:29:06PM +0530, utkarsh Dhawan wrote:

Hi James,

Web Confusion was an activity part of GSOC 2015. You can find the reference
here [1] the project was developed by me and Vibhor under the mentorship of
Tony. The activity basically revolves around interactive tasks divided into
various levels. You can find an example in the attachment below.

[1] [1]https://github.com/crusher95/webconfusion

Thanking You,
Utkarsh Dhawan
(Developer/Student)

Note:Please Consider The environment before printing.

On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:20 PM James Cameron <[2]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:

 G'day Utkarsh,

 What can you tell us about this Web Confusion project?  I've searched
 and I can't it.

 We have in Sugarizer the activities Etoys, Jappy, Scratch, and Turtle
 Blocks.  We have in Sugar also the activities Pippy, Develop, and
 PyDebug.  All are offline capable.

 We also have Music Blocks, as a web app.  There are also many other
 web apps for teaching children how to code.  All are online capable.

 Or do you mean adding the Turtle Confusion shape challenges to the
 Turtle Blocks JavaScript activity?  I think they are already there,
 no?

 On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 11:50:01AM +0530, utkarsh Dhawan wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > Is the Web Confusion project still in the pipeline? Since I think it was
 an
 > amazing project to teach young kids about programming languages at an
 early
 > stage. Also I think the scope for the same can be increased to other
 languages
 > like python.
 >
 > Thanking You,
 > Utkarsh Dhawan
 > (Developer/Student)
 >
 > Note:Please Consider The environment before printing.
 >
 > On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 6:40 AM Walter Bender <[1][3]
 walter.ben...@gmail.com>
 > wrote:
 >
 >     We have some ideas contributed by Rahul and myself. But nothing from
 anyone
 >     else. Please add your ideas here [1] this week as organization
 applications
 >     are due soon.
 >
 >     regards.
 >
 >     -walter
 >
 >     [1] [2][4]https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md
 >     --
 >     Walter Bender
 >     Sugar Labs
 >     [3][5]http://www.sugarlabs.org
 >     [4]
 >     ___
 >     Sugar-devel mailing list
 >     [5][6]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 >     [6][7]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
 >
 > References:
 >
 > [1] mailto:[8]walter.ben...@gmail.com
 > [2] [9]https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md
 > [3] [10]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
 > [4] [11]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
 > [5] mailto:[12]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 > [6] [13]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

 > ___
 > Sugar-devel mailing list
 > [14]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 > [15]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

 --
 James Cameron
 [16]http://quozl.netrek.org/
 ___
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References:

[1] https://github.com/crusher95/webconfusion
[2] mailto:qu...@laptop.org
[3] mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com
[4] https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md
[5] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
[6] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[7] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[8] mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com
[9] https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md
[10] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
[11] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
[12] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[13] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[14] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[15] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[16] http://quozl.netrek.org/
[17] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[18] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel





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Re: [Sugar-devel] Need help with setting up development environment on ubuntu

[Tony Anderson]

On Ubuntu, activities are stored in a system folder: 
/usr/share/sugar/activities. However any activity can be made local in 
/home/username/Activities.
The activities are written in Python and so changes can be made directly 
in the source code. The changes can be tested by running the activity. 
Print statements and error messages are shown by the Log activitiy.


Tony

On 1/11/19 11:01 AM, Mayank Kaushik wrote:
I tried to setup a development environment on ubuntu using 
https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/development-environment.md 
.On this link I tried the "Packaged Sugar" method but it only has very 
few activities.I want to test and make changes to memorize 
activity,please help me with how to get going.

Thankyou

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Porting to Python 3: GSoC 2019

[Tony Anderson]

This 'ideas list' is hard to follow:

The criteria are excellent. Howver there appears to be only one idea, 
not a list.


The idea is to port Sugar to Python 3 - this seems to be a necessity 
-not an idea. However, the description seems to limit this idea to 
porting only the telepathy interface to Python 3.


I had understood that the underlying idea was to implement the 
'collabwrapper'  and that activity developers can then replace the 
collaboration code with this toolkit capability. In this way the Python 
3 port would be only coded once and reused in several activities.


It would seem prudent to inventory the activities that need this 
capability - my guess is on the order of a dozen out of 400+. Such an 
inventory would enable prioritization and an evaluation of the ability 
of the collabwrapper to provide a common api.


Tony

On 12/31/18 1:33 PM, Rahul Bothra wrote:

Hi Ravi,

Thank you for showing your interest in participating in GSoC with 
Sugar Labs.


On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 2:18 PM Ravi Teja > wrote:
> I went through the newly created ideas list here 
.


That's great. We'll be adding in more ideas soon.

> Please guide me where to get started with the idea of
> *Porting** Sugar and core activities to Python 3*.

Please see the Idea description and the list of Suggested Issues. From 
now on,

please use the Sugar-Devel mailing list (cc) instead of private mail ;-)

Regards
Rahul Bothra


On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 2:18 PM Ravi Teja > wrote:


Hello Rahul, I am a GSoC 2019 aspirant, wanting to contribute to
Sugar Labs. I went through the newly created ideas list here
.
Please guide me where to get started with the idea of *Porting
Sugar and core activities to Python 3*.

Best Regards,
Ravi Teja Gannavarapu.


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Re: [Sugar-devel] welcoming the new Sugar Labs oversight board members

[Tony Anderson]

I could not determine if this site is open. To benefit from the content 
on this site it would be necessary to provide offline copies.


Tony

On 12/22/18 7:00 PM, Rishabh Thaney wrote:
Sounds like a good idea, you mean for the activities mentioned in the 
previous mail?


I will be exploring more activities listed on the HOC website, and 
come up with more ideas to implement ours.


Interested people can also join, would be fun working on this :)

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 at 12:19 AM, Walter Bender 
mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com>> wrote:


We'll need to write up a "Teacher's Guide" for each activity.

On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 1:47 PM Rishabh Thaney
mailto:rishabhtha...@gmail.com>> wrote:



On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 at 7:48 PM, Walter Bender
mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com>> wrote:



On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 1:00 AM Rishabh Thaney
mailto:rishabhtha...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Thanks for the update, Walter and congratulations to
all the newly elected members.

I would also like to help Samson and Vipul with outreach.
Would also like to share that we recently hosted an
'hour of code' with the ACM student chapter of our
college in which we went to a school and taught basic
programming to the students of 5th grade.

I was wondering if Sugar Labs also participates in the
ACM Hour of code which takes place every year.
Would also like to discuss the possibility of
partnering with Code.org and to see if we can list an
activity here:
https://hourofcode.com/in/en/learn

Which I believe would help in outreach and supporting
a bigger cause as well.
I would request everyone to please share any relevant
inputs on this.

I've watched with dismay over the years as we have gone
from summer of code to month of code to week of code to
day of code to hour of code. That said, I know nothing
about marketing and obviously this is a good outreach
opportunity.

Ideas:
(1) Sugar on RPi install party
(2) Sugar on a Stick install party
(3) Write your first interactive paint program in Turtle
Blocks
(4) Write your first song in Music Blocks
(5) Do X, Y, or Z with a Sugarizer activity.


Thanks for these insights, I think we can list most of these
as interactive modules here:
https://hourofcode.com/in/en/learn

So that people conducting more such programs can also be
provided with our resources which can be used for the HOC.

Though, will have to check how to go about with listing them
and are there any guidelines that need to be followed.



Happy holidays!


Thx


Best
Rishabh

-- 
Thanks & best regards

Rishabh Thaney
+91.999.909.3117
rishabhtha...@gmail.com 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rishabhthaney/

regards.

-walter
-- 
Walter Bender

Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

-- 
Thanks & best regards

Rishabh Thaney
+91.999.909.3117
rishabhtha...@gmail.com 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rishabhthaney/



-- 
Walter Bender

Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

--
Thanks & best regards
Rishabh Thaney
+91.999.909.3117
rishabhtha...@gmail.com 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rishabhthaney/


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Website Update for a/b testing

[Tony Anderson]

I didn't read everything but it appears this has to do with 
www.sugarlabs.org and not Sugar.


Our fundamental problem is the perception that Sugar is limited to the 
XO platform. Not only do we need to focus on Sugar for
other platforms but on the basic question: What does Sugar offer that 
makes it a compelling choice for education in schools? Once that is 
decided, it would be appropriate to use the website to convey the 
message to the public.


Tony

On 12/21/18 5:36 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Has this been done yet?  It has been very quiet since I gave this
summary.

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 08:06:44AM +1100, James Cameron wrote:

Thanks.

Gathering together the information so far;

1.  meeting of community members during an oversight board meeting,
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/2018/meeting-log-2018-12-07
chose a goal (A/B content testing), and a team of volunteers,

2.  meeting of the team came up with several plans,
http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/2018-12-09
and an article on the value and process of A/B testing,
https://circaedu.com/hemj/understanding-the-value-of-ab-testing/

3.  Peace has forged ahead and made a mock-up of some design changes,
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-December/056034.html

Could the team please;

- decide how to measure engagement; e.g. time on page, click-through
   to downloads; this is the metric,

- begin to measure, to establish the baseline,

- make some hypothesis,

- establish which metrics will define pass or fail,

- design an experiment,

- run the experiment,

- assess the results and come to a conclusion,

- iterate back to the hypothesis step,

I've turned on the GitHub Wiki feature for the repository
https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs in case you'd like to use
that for sharing your work in a central place.  Otherwise you might
use wiki.sugarlabs.org.

Thanks for working on this!

--
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Install sucrose

[Tony Anderson]

Alex,

Thanks. Well done.

Tony

On 12/10/18 6:25 PM, Alex Perez wrote:

Tony,

Thanks. I have updated it with the two additional commands required, 
the first of which activates the universe repo, and, if it's already 
installs is a no-op:


https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/ubuntu.md


Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>
December 10, 2018 at 9:35 AM
Hi, Alex

I used https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/ubuntu.md.

Tony


On 12/10/18 5:12 PM, Alex Perez wrote:


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Alex Perez <mailto:ape...@alexperez.com>
December 10, 2018 at 9:12 AM
Tony,

Can you cite the documentation you were using? Nowhere in this 
process is that cited, and without it, this one line command can't be 
added. Do you have a wiki account? If so, please feel free to add it 
to the appropriate page yourself, but it would also be helpful for 
you to actually cite the content you are referencing here.


Regards,
Alex Perez


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Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>
December 10, 2018 at 8:48 AM
Hi, James

Alex Perez identified the problem correctly. I needed to run:

sudo apt-get update

before

sudo apt install sucrose

For me, the real concern is that someone attracted to try Sugar may 
be turned away be incomplete installation instructions.


Tony



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James Cameron <mailto:qu...@laptop.org>
December 9, 2018 at 7:16 PM
Just now, tested Ubuntu 18.04 and 18.04.1 installation media by
installing Sugar.  The universe repository was already enabled, and
"sudo apt install sucrose" completed normally.  After restart, and
Sugar selected from login, everything worked fine.

There's no error "package not found".  When you try to install a
package that is not listed, you get "E: Unable to locate package
sucrose".

One scenario where "sudo apt install sucrose" may say "E: Unable to
locate package sucrose" is where the system does not have internet
access, or where access was not available during a critical period
after boot when the Ubuntu system automatically updates the package
list.  Missing network drivers is a common cause.  Nothing to do with
Sugar though, and we won't document all the foibles of Ubuntu.

Please do update the Debian Wiki if it is in error.  Not really our
responsibility here at Sugar Labs, so we rely on interested people to
do it.

On Mon, Dec 03, 2018 at 10:10:54AM +, Tony Anderson wrote:

Sadly, this is not the problem. The Universe repository was enabled.

wiki.debian.org/sugar/#Running the Sugar interface says Upcoming Debian 9
"Stretch" will include 0.110. (We are on 0.112).
Packages overiview for Debian Sugar Team says sugar: 0.110.0-3 as stable and
0.112.6 with 7 bugs and unstable. Naturally I don't know whether any of this
refers to 'sucrose' in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.

Tony

On 12/1/18 6:12 PM, Alex Perez wrote:

 Tony,

 It sounds like you do not have the 'universe' apt repository enabled, since
 this is where the sucrose package lives, according to [1]https://
 packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/sucrose

 With Ubuntu 18.04, you should just be able to run "sudo add-apt-repository

 universe" and enable it.

 [2]Tony Anderson
 Friday, November 30, 2018 9:34 PM
 I am trying to install sugar on a Windows laptop.

 I was able to get 50gb unallocated space and installed ubuntu 18.04
 LTS.

 The command 'sudo apt install sucrose' returned package not found.

 Tony

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References:

[1]https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/sucrose
[2]mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net
[3]mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[4]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[5]mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[6]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel



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Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>
December 3, 2018 at 2:10 AM
Sadly, this is not the problem. The Universe repository was enabled.

wiki.debian.org/sugar/#Running the Sugar interface says Upc

Re: [Sugar-devel] Install sucrose

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Alex

I used https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/ubuntu.md.

Tony


On 12/10/18 5:12 PM, Alex Perez wrote:

Tony,

Can you cite the documentation you were using? Nowhere in this process 
is that cited, and without it, this one line command can't be added. 
Do you have a wiki account? If so, please feel free to add it to the 
appropriate page yourself, but it would also be helpful for you to 
actually cite the content you are referencing here.


Regards,
Alex Perez


Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>
December 10, 2018 at 8:48 AM
Hi, James

Alex Perez identified the problem correctly. I needed to run:

sudo apt-get update

before

sudo apt install sucrose

For me, the real concern is that someone attracted to try Sugar may 
be turned away be incomplete installation instructions.


Tony



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James Cameron <mailto:qu...@laptop.org>
December 9, 2018 at 7:16 PM
Just now, tested Ubuntu 18.04 and 18.04.1 installation media by
installing Sugar.  The universe repository was already enabled, and
"sudo apt install sucrose" completed normally.  After restart, and
Sugar selected from login, everything worked fine.

There's no error "package not found".  When you try to install a
package that is not listed, you get "E: Unable to locate package
sucrose".

One scenario where "sudo apt install sucrose" may say "E: Unable to
locate package sucrose" is where the system does not have internet
access, or where access was not available during a critical period
after boot when the Ubuntu system automatically updates the package
list.  Missing network drivers is a common cause.  Nothing to do with
Sugar though, and we won't document all the foibles of Ubuntu.

Please do update the Debian Wiki if it is in error.  Not really our
responsibility here at Sugar Labs, so we rely on interested people to
do it.

On Mon, Dec 03, 2018 at 10:10:54AM +, Tony Anderson wrote:

Sadly, this is not the problem. The Universe repository was enabled.

wiki.debian.org/sugar/#Running the Sugar interface says Upcoming Debian 9
"Stretch" will include 0.110. (We are on 0.112).
Packages overiview for Debian Sugar Team says sugar: 0.110.0-3 as stable and
0.112.6 with 7 bugs and unstable. Naturally I don't know whether any of this
refers to 'sucrose' in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.

Tony

On 12/1/18 6:12 PM, Alex Perez wrote:

 Tony,

 It sounds like you do not have the 'universe' apt repository enabled, since
 this is where the sucrose package lives, according to [1]https://
 packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/sucrose

 With Ubuntu 18.04, you should just be able to run "sudo add-apt-repository

 universe" and enable it.

 [2]Tony Anderson
 Friday, November 30, 2018 9:34 PM
 I am trying to install sugar on a Windows laptop.

 I was able to get 50gb unallocated space and installed ubuntu 18.04
 LTS.

 The command 'sudo apt install sucrose' returned package not found.

 Tony

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References:

[1]https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/sucrose
[2]mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net
[3]mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[4]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[5]mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[6]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel



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Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>
December 3, 2018 at 2:10 AM
Sadly, this is not the problem. The Universe repository was enabled.

wiki.debian.org/sugar/#Running the Sugar interface says Upcoming 
Debian 9 "Stretch" will include 0.110. (We are on 0.112).
Packages overiview for Debian Sugar Team says sugar: 0.110.0-3 as 
stable and 0.112.6 with 7 bugs and unstable. Naturally I don't know 
whether any of this refers to 'sucrose' in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.


Tony

On 12/1/18 6:12 PM, Alex Perez wrote:


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Alex Perez <mailto:ape...@alexperez.com>
December 1, 2018 at 10:12 AM
Tony,

It sounds like you do not have the 'universe' apt repository enabled, 
since this is where the sucrose package lives, according to 
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/su

Re: [Sugar-devel] Install sucrose

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, James

Alex Perez identified the problem correctly. I needed to run:

sudo apt-get update

before

sudo apt install sucrose

For me, the real concern is that someone attracted to try Sugar may be 
turned away be incomplete installation instructions.


Tony

On 12/10/18 3:16 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Just now, tested Ubuntu 18.04 and 18.04.1 installation media by
installing Sugar.  The universe repository was already enabled, and
"sudo apt install sucrose" completed normally.  After restart, and
Sugar selected from login, everything worked fine.

There's no error "package not found".  When you try to install a
package that is not listed, you get "E: Unable to locate package
sucrose".

One scenario where "sudo apt install sucrose" may say "E: Unable to
locate package sucrose" is where the system does not have internet
access, or where access was not available during a critical period
after boot when the Ubuntu system automatically updates the package
list.  Missing network drivers is a common cause.  Nothing to do with
Sugar though, and we won't document all the foibles of Ubuntu.

Please do update the Debian Wiki if it is in error.  Not really our
responsibility here at Sugar Labs, so we rely on interested people to
do it.

On Mon, Dec 03, 2018 at 10:10:54AM +, Tony Anderson wrote:

Sadly, this is not the problem. The Universe repository was enabled.

wiki.debian.org/sugar/#Running the Sugar interface says Upcoming Debian 9
"Stretch" will include 0.110. (We are on 0.112).
Packages overiview for Debian Sugar Team says sugar: 0.110.0-3 as stable and
0.112.6 with 7 bugs and unstable. Naturally I don't know whether any of this
refers to 'sucrose' in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.

Tony

On 12/1/18 6:12 PM, Alex Perez wrote:

 Tony,

 It sounds like you do not have the 'universe' apt repository enabled, since
 this is where the sucrose package lives, according to [1]https://
 packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/sucrose

 With Ubuntu 18.04, you should just be able to run "sudo add-apt-repository

 universe" and enable it.

 [2]Tony Anderson
 Friday, November 30, 2018 9:34 PM
 I am trying to install sugar on a Windows laptop.

 I was able to get 50gb unallocated space and installed ubuntu 18.04
 LTS.

 The command 'sudo apt install sucrose' returned package not found.

 Tony

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References:

[1] https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/sucrose
[2] mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net
[3] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[4] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[5] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[6] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Install sucrose

[Tony Anderson]

Sadly, this is not the problem. The Universe repository was enabled.

wiki.debian.org/sugar/#Running the Sugar interface says Upcoming Debian 
9 "Stretch" will include 0.110. (We are on 0.112).
Packages overiview for Debian Sugar Team says sugar: 0.110.0-3 as stable 
and 0.112.6 with 7 bugs and unstable. Naturally I don't know whether any 
of this refers to 'sucrose' in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.


Tony

On 12/1/18 6:12 PM, Alex Perez wrote:

Tony,

It sounds like you do not have the 'universe' apt repository enabled, 
since this is where the sucrose package lives, according to 
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/sucrose


With Ubuntu 18.04, you should just be able to run "sudo 
add-apt-repository universe" and enable it.

Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>
Friday, November 30, 2018 9:34 PM
I am trying to install sugar on a Windows laptop.

I was able to get 50gb unallocated space and installed ubuntu 18.04 LTS.

The command 'sudo apt install sucrose' returned package not found.

Tony

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Re: [Sugar-devel] GCI plan for chatbot functionality and updating website to bootstrap v4.1.x

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Amaan

You are, of course, aware that a chatbot capability is offered by the 
Speak Activity based on Alice. Alice can be 'taught' so that its dialogs 
can be improved. With a simple modification, it can be made to respond 
by default: 'I don't know'. to a question such as 'What is the third 
planet?' to which the user responds: 'The third planet is Mars' would 
become the bots answer to that question. It would be a simple change to 
add multiple chatbots so that a user could build their own.


Naturally, this approach has the benefit of 'low entry' and 'no ceiling' 
to which we aspire in enabling our learners to learn and to learn how to 
learn.


Tony


On 12/2/18 12:10 PM, Amaan Iqbal wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I am attaching the plans which our GCI students have created for 
having a chatbot functionality on our website and for updating our 
website to Bootstrap 4.1 which will result in removal of dependency on 
some plugins like owl-carousel and many other custom stylings.


Please find the links below. Any reviews would be appreciated.

Plan for Chatbot functionality 

Plan for updating the website to bootstrap 4.1.x 




Regards,
Amaan


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Install sucrose

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Alex,

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

I had suspected that the instructions on the Sugar wiki were not 
complete. We spent time changing the markup to gitHub but apparently not 
time testing the instructions.


Tony


On 12/1/18 6:12 PM, Alex Perez wrote:

Tony,

It sounds like you do not have the 'universe' apt repository enabled, 
since this is where the sucrose package lives, according to 
https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/sucrose


With Ubuntu 18.04, you should just be able to run "sudo 
add-apt-repository universe" and enable it.

Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>
Friday, November 30, 2018 9:34 PM
I am trying to install sugar on a Windows laptop.

I was able to get 50gb unallocated space and installed ubuntu 18.04 LTS.

The command 'sudo apt install sucrose' returned package not found.

Tony

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[Sugar-devel] Install sucrose

[Tony Anderson]

I am trying to install sugar on a Windows laptop.

I was able to get 50gb unallocated space and installed ubuntu 18.04 LTS.

The command 'sudo apt install sucrose' returned package not found.

Tony

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Re: [Sugar-devel] SL Marketing meeting?

[Tony Anderson]

In my experience the active developers understand git much better than 
Sugar. I'd prefer active users in an educational deployment.


Tony

On Saturday, 20 October, 2018 01:34 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Why?  They usually don’t know enough to explain Sugar, let alone be an 
ambassador.  I’d prefer active developers.  ;-)


On 20 Oct 2018, at 8:17 am, Sumit Srivastava  wrote:

+1 on ambassador program.

I'd like to suggest to make everyone who participates in Sugar Labs during GCI 
an ambassador too.

Regards
Sumit Srivastava

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018, 11:49 pm Samson Goddy,  wrote:
For those who missed the meeting. Here are the logs



Regards

Samson

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 1:15 PM Samson Goddy  wrote:
Hello all,

Friendly reminder!! The meeting will be at 17:00 UTC


See you there!!

Regards

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 11:25 AM Sidhant Bhavnani  
wrote:
Looking forward to it. I have some ideas of how to go about integrating some of 
it into GCI.

Regards,
Sidhant Bhavnani

On Fri 12 Oct, 2018, 12:59 PM Samson Goddy,  wrote:
I don't plan to work alone. I plan to work with everyone. My mail wasn't 
specific to any group of persons.

I add "thought" for more ideas of what to discuss because it is open.

It is an open space anyone can contribute.

Regards

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018, 8:05 AM James Cameron  wrote:
Marketing related?  So is everything we do.

Don’t exclude the people who aren’t willing to meet in yet another meeting?  If 
you do, you’ll just be ignored.  Let’s work together instead.


On 12 Oct 2018, at 7:55 am, Samson Goddy  wrote:

Noted, but I also believe they are Marketing related.



On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 9:43 PM James Cameron  wrote:
Only one of your topics are relevant to Marketing; the first one.

The other topics are best suited for the board, or the mailing lists.

Please don’t try to hold new meetings just to avoid the existing meetings and 
collaborations?  Work to build consensus rather than dividing into more 
subgroups.

I don't understand this part of the mail. Avoid existing meetings and 
collaboration?

Could you throw more light on these points.


On 12 Oct 2018, at 1:27 am, Samson Goddy  wrote:

Hello All,

Since 2016 [1], we haven't really talked about the marketing plan for SL. I am 
making an open call for have a meeting by tomorrow.  17:00 UTC [2]

Share your thought?

Topics ranging from;

1. Outreach (SL Ambassador, swag)
2. Sugar roadmap
3. Sugar Labs goals [3]
4. Deployment







[1] https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team
[2] https://www.worldtimeserver.com/convert_time_in_UTC.aspx
[3] https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Goals/2018_Submissions
--

Samson Goddy
Twitter: https://twitter.com/samson_goddy
Email: samsongo...@sugarlabs.org
 samsongo...@gmail.com

Website: https://samsongoddy.me/


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Twitter: https://twitter.com/samson_goddy
Email: samsongo...@sugarlabs.org
 samsongo...@gmail.com

Website: https://samsongoddy.me/




--

Samson Goddy
Twitter: https://twitter.com/samson_goddy
Email: samsongo...@sugarlabs.org
 samsongo...@gmail.com

Website: https://samsongoddy.me/


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[Sugar-devel] Sugaractivities - aslo alternative

[Tony Anderson]

This is to announce an interim alternative for ASLO. It provides access 
to  activities from ASLO and from github/Sugarlabs where a repository 
has been created.


In Sugar, enter https://tony37.github.io/Sugaractivities as the url. 
This will display the main page providing access to the complete 
collection of Sugar activities.


The first button (tile) displays a README with more details.

At this moment the repository has 523 tested activities:

    124 which work in Sugar on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and Sugar 0.112 in 13.2.9.

  24 which have been ported to GTK+3 but fail to launch.

    210 gtk2 activities which work in Sugar 0.112 but not Ubuntu sugar.

  92 gtk2 activities which do not launch in Sugar 0.112

  64 activities from github/Sugarlabs which have not been ported to 
GTK+3 but work in Sugar 0.112.


    9 activities from github/Sugarlabs which do not launch in Sugar 
0.112.


Part of the goal of this effort is to set up an easy way for volunteers 
to identify activities which can be made to work. For example, 'import 
WebKit' to import 'WebKit2'. Sugar for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS has only 12 
activities installed. From this source, there are more than 100 
additional activities which can be downloaded by Browse, installed and 
launched.


This service is offered with a double your money back guarantee! Just 
send me questions, report problems, offers to contribute or flames. I'll 
try to respond as rapidly as possible. It is even launched on Friday the 
13th.


Tony

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Temporarily removed tony37 from GitHub organisation sugarlabs

[Tony Anderson]

Great! Again, my apology for the mistake.


Tony


On Thursday, 12 July, 2018 09:52 AM, James Cameron wrote:

GitHub support has restored the repositories.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Temporarily removed tony37 from GitHub organisation sugarlabs

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, James

I went wrong! I was deleting obsolete repositories in my account. I did 
not realize that the list included Sugarlabs repositories, assuming that 
I was working only in my own. My sincerest apology and I hope that 
developers have a clone of these repositories. I believe that I should 
not be enabled on the Sugarlabs github repository. My only need to 
access the site is to download.



On Thursday, 12 July, 2018 08:38 AM, James Cameron wrote:

G'day Tony,

Please check that your account is secure, and nobody else is using it.

Four repositories were deleted by tony37 about 19 hours ago, and they
contained active development.  See attached screenshot.

I've temporarily removed tony37 from the GitHub organisation until we
can find out what went wrong.

https://github.com/organizations/sugarlabs/settings/audit-log

Developers with pull requests, please standby while I contact GitHub
support.  Keep a backup of your work somewhere.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [sugarlabs/foodforce2-activity] Port to Gtk+3 (#1)

[Tony Anderson]

Are you really saying that the 100+ activities ported to GTK+3 are 
simply changes and do not represent a new version?


When do you expect it will  be possible to release any of these ports. 
So far the only one I know is the release of turtleblocks v 218 by 
Walter Bender. I believe the github/repositories for activities need to 
represent working versions and should at least be one  version number 
above those in ASLO preceding the changes. I see no reason for using 
pull requests for less than a new version.


Let the users test the activity. The activity should be tested to see 
that Browse downloads, installs and that the activity can start in 
Ubuntu Sugar (18.04 LTS) and in build 13.2.9. If the new version does 
not work in one of these environments, add this fact to the release notes.


Tony

On Monday, 09 July, 2018 10:59 PM, James Cameron wrote:


We are not using git as a version control system only; we're also 
using it as a change control system. So version number changes are 
only needed when a new release of an activity is to be made.


It is up to the contributor whether to include that in their pull 
request. I'll accept pull requests with or without version number 
changes; but if someone includes a version number change, then I'll 
expect also;


  * full testing of the activity features, (for which others can help),
  * updated translations,
  * updated NEWS file,
  * review of licensing,
  * updated README.md file,
  * several other interesting things, see the checklist - maintainer

,
  * the pull request to be "vN", where N is the version number.

—
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub 
, 
or mute the thread 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [sugarlabs/help-activity] Port to Python3 (#4)

[Tony Anderson]

This activity displays static web sites. I would seem better to port 
this as a sugar web activity than to Python3.


Tony


On Thursday, 05 July, 2018 03:42 AM, James Cameron wrote:


You need to remove those unintended changes; not remove the files 
altogether. Your aggregate change 
 shows you 
are removing |po/Help.pot| and |translated_po/es/Help.po|, and still 
have changes you've made to |translated_po/ht/Help.po|. Please read 
the aggregate change carefully. I've no idea why you are changing 
those files; they /do/ look more recent, did you get them from 
somewhere interesting? Perhaps they could be the subject of another 
pull request.


—
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, 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] licensing question

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, D. Joe

Sugar users should not need to do any of this. For some reason, the 
developers decided that somehow the installed activity should be git 
init. The setup.py complains if the master is not a git repository (as 
it is when downloaded as a zip). While this is not a problem for an 
Ubuntu system, an XO does not have the storage capacity for .git. What 
Sugar users expect and deserve to have is the ability to click on an 
activity in ASLO, have it downloaded and installed by Browse in Sugar.


On Thursday, 24 May, 2018 07:52 PM, D. Joe wrote:

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 02:27:59PM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

[personal calumny and squabbling elided]

The only way Sugar users can access activities not already installed
is by ASLO (unless we have some really carefully hidden source).

Open the Terminal activity

if not yet installed, install git from upstream repos, eg

   dnf install git

or

   apt install git

depending on the underlying distro (which, remember, constitutes the bulk of 
the system and on which Sugar has a hard dependency).

Then

   git clone https://example.com/some/path

at this point, what's done depends on the package in question, but it's 
entirely possible to launch an activity from that directory, or to install it 
by copying it into ~/Activities

That's off the top of my head, from memory, and may require some minor tweaks, 
but I did see 10 people do this within the last month.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [ASLO] Idea of a "Quiz" based activity

[Tony Anderson]

This capability is provided currently by the Quiz activity (originally 
developed in Austria as the ImageQuiz activity). While the current 
version has not been updated on ASLO, it is in use in Rwanda. 
Essentially, the teacher prepares a text file similar to the method used 
by Moodle, e.g.


Name the capital of Rwanda. {=Kigali}

Which of these countries did not qualify for the World Cup? {=United 
States of America ~Russia ~Germany ~Brazil}


The Quiz Activity is installed on the XO. The quiz can be downloaded by 
Browse from the schoolserver to the Journal. To take the quiz, the 
student resumes Quiz from the Journal.


Tony


On Monday, 11 June, 2018 03:33 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

I always thought something along the lines of Geo Safari would be cool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoSafari

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 8:23 AM Rahul Bothra 
> wrote:


Hi everyone,

I had an idea of a quiz based activity which can be used for
conducting quizzes/evaluative components by teachers.

A user (teacher) can create a quiz in the activity, by adding
question-answer pairs, save the quiz, and share it with the students.
(Questions can be objective or short subjective.)

Users (students) can load the copy of the quiz in the activity and
attempt the quiz.
Students can then store the attempted copy of the quiz and share
it with the teacher, who can then evaluate the same


While I am not working on it at the moment, please share your
feedback on the following:
1. Does any such activity already exists? (I couldn't find any on
ASLO)
2. Do we have sugar users who _might_ find such an activity useful ?
3. Any improvements/ feature suggestions


Thanks and regards
Rahul Bothra (Pro-Panda)
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURE] Add a reset button to Sugar

[Tony Anderson]

If you want to do this, ensure it is enabled by a gsetting.

First this use case does not apply to Sugar on Ubuntu since each user 
has a separate account. Also, activities installed by the user goes into 
the user's Activities directory. Finally, Sugar cannot and should not 
touch the user's account in Ubuntu.


For the XO, the user account is olpc regardless of who is actually using 
the computer. Activities added are available to all users and may well 
be needed by all to complete school assignments. The Journal is a record 
of the user's activities - including documents prepared by the user. The 
user may need access to those documents to continue the work. Certainly 
the user should not be forced to start over. Since the user is OLPC, I 
have no idea what a 'create new user' prompt would be. Naturally, the 
new user can change the nick, as always.


Tony


On Sunday, 10 June, 2018 02:34 PM, Rahul Bothra wrote:

Hi all,

Feature: Add a "reset sugar" button

Button action:
 - Remove additional activities installed by the user, leaving only 
the pre installed set

 - Remove all journal entries
 - Remove the user account; user should get the "create new user" 
prompt on logging in the next time


Possible use case:
 - While transfer of computer from one user to another

Please share your opinions on the same.

Thanks
Rahul Bothra (Pro-Panda)


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Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO shut down target date? (was: licensing question)

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

I appreciate the attempt to discuss this issue.

My take is that James is reflecting his view that there is no difference 
between Sugar and a Sugar activity - they all get built together. I am 
ignorant of the benefit of using Debian or Fedora packaging. The xo 
bundle is a zip file and is not dependent on packaging. This may have 
some benefit in building SOAS.
By the way I mean 'live' as in a live cd which can be booted without 
touching the host or used for installation.


For the past decade, Sugar builds have been released with a selected set 
of activities. Normally the set in OLPC builds has included as many 
activities as there was room on the XO (fewer on XO-1 than the other 
models).  This apparently from an assumption that once distributed, 
users have no opportunity to add new activities.


Actually, ASLO provided that capability. However, the XOs in Peru and 
Uruguay (by a deliberate use of the root password to prevent it) did not 
have realistic access to ASLO.


When I volunteered in Nepal, it was immediately obvious that the limited 
storage of the XO required a school server - a local computer with 
content that can be downloaded to the Journal as desired and then 
deleted when not needed. So one of the requirements was to provide a 
local version of ASLO (http://schoolserver/sugaractivitie). This has 
been available for several years.


This year I decided on a major project to update this capability by 
fixing broken activities and providing as rich a library as possible. 
The priority changed with the release of Ubuntu 18.04 LTS which does not 
support gtk2. Fortunately Gtk3 is essentially syntactic sugar requiring 
no logical changes to the activities. I suspect that gtk2 activities 
which work on an XO also work on Sugar with Ubuntu 16.04 - but the LTS 
feature is compelling for dealing with the problem.


The entire ALSO library including all activities in the github repo 
requires only 5GB. With a current laptop with an Ubuntu installation, 
this can easily be installed on the local computer (I use 
/home/username/aslolite). This is a powerful opportunity - every 
activity is available to be fixed, making a new version level. It is 
easy to write scripts to test every activity for conformance to 
standards (e.g. which activities use class instead of exec or are gtk2 
or web or Gtk3).


In my experience about 50% of the activities do not work. This platform 
provides a base for quickly testing activities on an XO and recording 
whether they work or not and providing some comment about the problem. I 
used the platform to test the xo bundles created from the github repos. 
The ratio of 103/191 fits this experience.


Tony

On Saturday, 26 May, 2018 12:50 AM, Dave Crossland wrote:



On 25 May 2018 at 00:47, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


ASLO provides access to Sugar activities (*.xo bundles). Ways in
which users get Sugar is not relevant. 



When James said, "plenty of disk space these days to include all 
working activities in a build", that suggested to me that that this is 
relevant; when users 'sudo apt-get install sucrose' will they also get 
all working activities?


In my experience, XO users install Sugar from the images on
laptop.org <http://laptop.org>. 



James, surely "plenty of disk space these days" doesn't apply to 
images built for XO-1 machines?


For Ubuntu, I assume sudo apt-get install sucrose. SOAS is not
live and the usb stick is built from the SOAS image (dd). 



To clarify, when you say, "SOAS is not live", do you mean the last 
SOAS image was released a long time ago?


I haven't yet tried Sugar on RPI but I believe this is a sudo
apt-get sucrose to Raspbian.


I would expect so

In each case a number of activities selected by the packager is
included. However, users should be able to access the entire library.


If a packager includes all working activities, then users can and do 
access the "entire" library.


The fundamental problem is to fix the broken activities.


True; but, even as more broken activities become fixed, given the 
actually used packager's images include all working activities, the 
situation remains the same.


Current statistics taken a few minutes ago show that there are 327
activities available on ASLO alone. These are generally gtk2
activities which are not usable in the Ubuntu Sugar. There are 191
activities with github repos. Of these, 103 work on the Ubuntu
Sugar and are available as xo bundles from aslolite.


Good to know. Are those gtk2 .xo bundles 'broken'?

Cheers
Dave


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Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO shut down target date? (was: licensing question)

[Tony Anderson]

ASLO provides acess to Sugar activities (*.xo bundles). Ways in which 
users get Sugar is not relevant. In my experience, XO users install 
Sugar from the images on laptop.org. For Ubuntu, I assume sudo apt-get 
install sucrose. SOAS is not live and the usb stick is built from the 
SOAS image (dd). I haven't yet tried Sugar on RPI but I believe this is 
a sudo apt-get sucrose to Raspbian.


In each case a number of activities selected by the packager is 
included. However, users should be able to access the entire library.


The fundamental problem is to fix the broken activities.

Current statistics taken a few minutes ago show that there are 327 
activities available on ASLO alone. These are generally gtk2 activities 
which are not usable in the Ubuntu Sugar. There are 191 activities with 
github repos. Of these, 103 work on the Ubuntu Sugar and are available 
as xo bundles from aslolite.


Tony

On Friday, 25 May, 2018 11:38 AM, James Cameron wrote:

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 10:56:10PM -0400, Dave Crossland wrote:

On 23 May 2018 at 23:29, Walter Bender <[1]walter.ben...@gmail.com> wrote:

 On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 11:26 PM Dave Crossland <[2]d...@lab6.com> wrote:

 On Wed, May 23, 2018, 8:54 PM James Cameron <[3]qu...@laptop.org>
 wrote:

 Tony's insistence on ASLO continues to amuse me.  Most distribution
 of
 activities now happens through bundles, tarballs, and GitHub.  ASLO
 is
 rarely used by distributors or indeed useful for anything except
 personal searches for broken activities.  Tony's numbers make it
 plain.  My own plan is to remove the link to "activities" in Browse
 default page; plenty of disk space these days to include all
 working
 activities in a build.

 Good to hear real world usage of aslo has entered terminal decline.
 When will it be turned off?

 I am not a fan of the current activity server, but I am a fan of having
 lots of activities for our users to explore beyond the ones that were
 chosen for them.

James, when you say "Most distribution of activities now happens through
bundles, tarballs, and GitHub," could you provide a percentage split guess for
that? My guess is that its 90% bundles in OLPC images, 5% tarballs from ASLO or
similar, and 5% Github.

Happy to help, Dave!

My perception is also based on private feedback from deployments, from
people at OLPC, from people using GitHub, and from mailing list posts.

Several instances of a class of bug "canary in coal mine" afflict
ASLO, GitHub, and downstreams such as Fedora and Debian.  Tracking
these bugs also gives me an idea of demand in those channels.

In past two years, my estimates of distribution by channel are;

- 50% in OLPC images, or images prepared by schools using OLPC tools,
   or software updates, using a bundle cache at
   ,

- 35% in Fedora SoaS images, Sugar Live Build, Debian packages, or
   Ubuntu packages, using GitHub clones, or tarballs from GitHub or
   ,

- 10% as bundles downloaded from ASLO using Browse (because of
   reputational damage with bundles rarely working or updated),

- 5% direct from GitHub; by skilled users and developers.

However, I don't have measurements.  I'd like to hear of measurements,
but we don't typically have tracking mechanisms.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] licensing question

[Tony Anderson]

Thanks for this. ASLO is our access to a rich library of Sugar 
activities. It has and continues to work well. Walter's recent post of 
Turtle Blocks version 218 is exemplary of the proper process and that it 
works.


The problem with ASLO is neglect of the actvities. Walter initiated a 
move of activity source code to github. The apparent goal of this 
initiative is to deal with the fact that the original contributor of 
most activities is no longer activie. Moving the source to github has no 
technical basis (the source code for an activity is in the xo bundle and 
has the advantage of being the code actually executed on the device. It 
is to open up maintenance of the activities to any member of the 
community - something not possible in the ASLO process.


One of the problems in ASLO is that the activity is claimed to work with 
all versions of Sugar bewteen 0.82 and 0.104 - something which not 
verifiable and probably not true.


One option is to assert that activities work on 0.110 and 0.112 since 
that assertion can be tested. We could have an LTS version of Sugar and 
assert that activities will be updated to work on that version over a 
period of time. Along with this we need a help line (h...@sugarlabs.org 
where users can report problems or ask how to accomplish a particular 
task, or to request a new capability. This could be monitored by 
experienced users (support gang). This technique was accomplished for 
OLPC by Adam Holt and was one of the most important factors in expanding 
use of the XO.


Tony


On Friday, 25 May, 2018 01:56 AM, Alex Perez wrote:

Folks,

These attitudes are totally unhelpful, and I urge you to drop it, stop 
hurling insults. To be honest, I think both of you have valid points, 
and for the time being, I am not a fan of shutting down the legacy 
ASLO, until we have data that it's _really_ not being used. Removing 
the link from the landing page of the next version of sugar is a 
different thing entirely, so let's not conflate them. The deployed 
base on XO machines is largely running very old versions of Sugar, and 
many of those activities likely work fine with those old versions of 
Sugar. This is something I do not think James is considering, but 
perhaps I'm wrong.


We have access logs for ASLO. We can easily determine how often, and 
which, activities are downloaded. I do not personally know which server.


What we may lack, metric-wise, is what the version of Sugar on the 
client machine is. Is this encoded into the user agent of the custom 
browser, by chance? I assume not, but it's worth asking the question.



Tony Anderson <mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>
May 23, 2018 at 11:27 PM
James Cameron's devotion to alternate facts is what is amusing 
(actually sad). The only way Sugar users can access activities not 
already installed is by ASLO (unless we have some really carefully 
hidden source).


Tony




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James Cameron <mailto:qu...@laptop.org>
May 23, 2018 at 5:54 PM
Copyright on the source code of these activities is held by their
original authors, and not by Sugar Labs.

The ASLO process is a distribution of software by Sugar Labs, and the
licenses are in the source code bundles.  It makes no real difference
what was entered into ASLO as metadata, what matters is the copyright
and license declaration in the source code.

Up until last year, ASLO did not require a license.  A pending change
to ASLO had not been put into production.  Since that change, each new
upload to ASLO has had to have a license field added if there wasn't
one.  But again, this license field is only a summary, and has little
bearing.  What matters is the copyright and license in the source.

Whether Sugar Labs has received a letter or not is immaterial; but as
a distributor Sugar Labs need only check that the license is
acceptable before distributing.

One of the issues at hand is bundling of TurtleBlocksJS inside
Sugarizer.  Sugarizer does not use ASLO, so what ASLO did or does is
immaterial.

TurtleBlocksJS is AGPLv3+ in js/activity.js, has bundled source of
various other licenses, and has no license metadata in activity.info.

I agree that one solution is for the authors of TurtleBlocksJS to
relicense their work to one more compatible with Sugarizer's Apache
2.0 license.  Another is for Sugarizer to relicense.  Best would be a
path from AGPLv3+ to Apache 2.0; I've not found one yet.

Perhaps the new availability of Scratch on Sugarizer reduces the demand
for TurtleBlocksJS.

I certainly don't agree with Tony's suggestion there has been
arbitrary choice of license in GitHub repositories, and have acted and
will act to change any incorrect choice.

The other issue of porting from Python to JavaScript is creating a
derivative work, so the original license does apply.

If the source license is GPLv2 then ask the original cop

Re: [Sugar-devel] [sugarlabs/sugar-docs] Port to GTK+ 3 Guide (#149)

[Tony Anderson]

This link shows nothing of what was done. How is this version a better 
documentation of the conversion process than the original?


Ideally, the Wiki speaks to our users and potential users. The gitHub 
speaks to developers. Perhaps this move is appropriate because the
existing pages describe how to do the conversion, a task for developers. 
However, where is the page that explains to our users how they benefit from
this conversion? For example, users need to know how recent a build they 
need to install in order to use gtk+3. We still have many XO users with 
Sugar 0.82.


Tony

On Saturday, 07 April, 2018 11:49 AM, Rudra Sadhu wrote:


#150 
Please review.

—
You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub 
, 
or mute the thread 
.




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Re: [Sugar-devel] aslolite (was: ASLO shut down target date? (was: licensing question))

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Walter,

I have been working on an alternative 'aslolite' to ASLO which will work 
on a schoolserver. This requires all of the activity bundles be local. 
Access is by a simple web interface  The entire aslolite is < 5GB. If 
this space were available somewhere online, I could share aslolite with 
the community.


Users with an Ubuntu Sugar would download the folder (could be tarball). 
From file://home/username/aslolite/index.html they can browse all 514 
activities, click on one of interest, which Browse will download and 
install. The activity can be immediately launched from the Home View. 
Bundles for activities in github were built by setup.py from the 
repository. Others were downloaded directly from ASLO.


Current limitations are some missing icons, summary descriptions are 
from ASLO and need the ones from activities with summarize in 
activity.info. The update to TurtleBlocks-218 has not been made. If it 
is ready, a bundle of MusicBlocks should be made and included.


The activity tile does contains a help button for those activities with 
Help.


Aslolite should work from an XSCE server for an XO deployment.

Tony

On Thursday, 24 May, 2018 11:29 AM, Walter Bender wrote:



On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 11:26 PM Dave Crossland > wrote:




On Wed, May 23, 2018, 8:54 PM James Cameron > wrote:




Tony's insistence on ASLO continues to amuse me. Most
distribution of
activities now happens through bundles, tarballs, and GitHub. 
ASLO is
rarely used by distributors or indeed useful for anything except
personal searches for broken activities.  Tony's numbers make it
plain.  My own plan is to remove the link to "activities" in
Browse
default page; plenty of disk space these days to include all
working
activities in a build.


Good to hear real world usage of aslo has entered terminal
decline. When will it be turned off?


I am not a fan of the current activity server, but I am a fan of 
having lots of activities for our users to explore beyond the ones 
that were chosen for them. So it seems we need some way for them to 
explore, even if deployments (and deployers) feel otherwise.


-walter

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Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org



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Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO shut down target date? (was: licensing question)

[Tony Anderson]

When 'deprecated', meaning a better alternative is available. This could 
be ASLOv3 when it is completed, fully tested and made available In other 
words, not 'real soon now'.


Tony

On Thursday, 24 May, 2018 11:26 AM, Dave Crossland wrote:



On Wed, May 23, 2018, 8:54 PM James Cameron > wrote:





Tony's insistence on ASLO continues to amuse me.  Most distribution of
activities now happens through bundles, tarballs, and GitHub.  ASLO is
rarely used by distributors or indeed useful for anything except
personal searches for broken activities.  Tony's numbers make it
plain.  My own plan is to remove the link to "activities" in Browse
default page; plenty of disk space these days to include all working
activities in a build.


Good to hear real world usage of aslo has entered terminal decline. 
When will it be turned off?




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Re: [Sugar-devel] licensing question

[Tony Anderson]

James Cameron's devotion to alternate facts is what is amusing (actually 
sad). The only way Sugar users can access activities not already 
installed is by ASLO (unless we have some really carefully hidden source).


Tony

On Thursday, 24 May, 2018 08:54 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Tony's insistence on ASLO continues to amuse me.  Most distribution of
activities now happens through bundles, tarballs, and GitHub.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] licensing question

[Tony Anderson]

The bulk of the Sugar Activities were contributed through the ASLO 
process. This process assumes that the contributor is the 
copyright-holder. The contributor was asked to specify a license. 
Unfortunately that selection is not displayed on ASLO. Therefore, it is 
likely that the license clause in the activities in Github were 
arbitrarily chosen.


If SugarLabs has not received a letter from a lawyer in 10 years 
probably means that there is no objection or that the copyright holder 
sees our use as fair use.


If gplv3 is ok, it would seem that turtleblocks.js needs to change 
license to gpl3 - something that Walter is fully authorized to do.


Tony


On Thursday, 24 May, 2018 07:46 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

Thank you!

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 7:03 PM Adam Holt > wrote:


On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 6:41 PM, Walter Bender
> wrote:

We are struggling with a licensing question [1] and were
hoping that the SFC might be able to advise us. Can you please
reach out to them in your role as liaison?


I've emailed Karen Sandler (SFConservancy) asking how/who we
should approach -

Adam

thx

-walter

[1] https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer/issues/48

-- 
Walter Bender

Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

-- 
Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @

http://unleashkids.org !



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Re: [Sugar-devel] State of Sugar

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Bastien


Attached is a spreadsheet which shows the current status (subject to 
clerical error).


Tony


On Tuesday, 22 May, 2018 01:08 PM, Bastien wrote:

Hi James and all,

let me deliberately sidetrack the issue at stake with a larger issue
which I'm curious about: what is the current activity status of Sugar?

Since I've been unsubscribed from the list a few years ago (because my
@laptop.org alias somehow died), I've missed a lot.  I'm aware of GSoC
projects and of Sugarizer, but I would love to get an overview of all
Sugar development...

James Cameron  writes:


Yes, perhaps that's what I'll do once the commit rate
by others falls below 10% of mine.

... the sentence above woke me up: does it means that your commit
activity is more than 9x the activity of *all* other contributors?

That would not be completely surprising (or insane or unhealthy) since
Sugar is a free software and most free softwares I know are led by the
(heroic) effort of a single individual.

But I may misunderstand your statement.

So let me try a few questions:

- What part(s) of Sugar (including activities) is mostly active?

- Who is using/testing those active parts?

- Who is contributing to Sugar code (including activities)?

- Who is supporting Sugar development (including Google through the
   GSoC)?  Is the OLPC association still somehow involved?

Sorry if those questions sound naive, I'm just trying to catch up
and understand better the ecosystem at large.

Thanks!





aslo.inventory_working.ods
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.spreadsheet
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [sugarlabs/ajedrez-activity] Adding A Suitable License (#1)

[Tony Anderson]

I have already done it since i am not burdened by the process you impose.



On Tuesday, 22 May, 2018 12:03 PM, James Cameron wrote:

The situation of unreleased yet ported activities is not a consequence
of process, but of missing-in-action activity maintainers, and porting
by GCI and GSoC.

Your choice not to contribute your time for this is noted.

It is a tempting move; I could simplify my work by focusing on
maintaining activities for laptop production rather than share with
you and others.  Yes, perhaps that's what I'll do once the commit rate
by others falls below 10% of mine.

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:51:16AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

Naturally it is easy to comment on what you haven't read.

When you propose a change to practice - it certainly isn't going to match.
Current practice finds us with almost 80 activities which have
been ported to GTK3 and which are not available to users via ASLO.

I am an activity maintainer - sadly not to benefit SugarLabs but for
deployments with a school server. However, the result will be to make these
activities available for 1000+ users.

Tony

On Tuesday, 22 May, 2018 10:32 AM, James Cameron wrote:

TL;DR.  Too long, didn't read.

What I did read doesn't match with the situation and practice; and
you're not an activity maintainer, so I don't think you know what you
are talking about.

Development process is optimised for activity maintainers, not
integrators and certainly not users.

If any activity maintainers have the time to stop maintaining
activities and respond to these points from Tony, please let me know
what you think.

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 10:08:36AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

You repeated that I destroyed something. Ignoring commits does not mean there
was destruction. I apologize again for my ignorance of the fact that people
were developing and maintaining activities in cyberspace.

Git history or no, the important point is to have working activities available
to our users and prospective users. This is the vital role of ASLO.

My comment about + was, of course, that I see no improvement in GTK3 over GTK2
but only the cost of its deliberately incompatible implementation. So far, it
appears that Gimp has been unable to complete the port even though GTK was
created as a toolkit for Gimp. They may skip GTK3 and start directly to GTK4.

I think your contributing document is incomplete and needs to be modified. The
most important point is that applying procedures necessary for Sugar OS
development to activity developers is unnecessary overkill.

The Contributing section applies only to Sugar OS and ought not be applied to
activities. Following are my comments on 'Modifying Activities'.

[1]Modifying Activities

Most activity repositories can be found in our [2]GitHub sugarlabs organization
. An alternative fact.  At present about 20% are there. (198/514).

A few activity repositories are somewhere else; read the activity/activity.info
file, check the metadata on the [3]activities.sugarlabs.org app store, or the
[4]Activity page on wiki.sugarlabs.org, or our deprecated [5]gitorious instance
. No, The starting point should be a clone of the repository on github/
SugarLabs or the current version on ASLO if no repository is on github.

For new activities, see [6]Write your own Sugar desktop activity, or [7]Write
your own Sugar web activity, then make a new repository in your GitHub account,
put the source code in it, then ask the [8]systems@ list to move it to the
GitHub sugarlabs organization.

Excellent. This should also be the model for new versions of an activity. This
is a workable procedure where [9]syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org is manned by the
Activity Team. So a typical procedure would be to clone an activity to a
personal computer with Sugar. The developer makes changes such as a port to
GTK3. During the port, the activity is launched and the log is checked to see
why it is not starting. When the contributor has completed a new version it is
pushed to the contributors github. The contributor sends an email to [10]
syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org notifying the Activity Team that a new version is
ready for release.

After modifying an activity, a new release may be needed. Some activities have
no maintainer, so you may need to be the maintainer for a short time.

The original model was that one person was responsible for an activity - but
could bring on co-contributors. New versions were submitted to ASLO and after
review released (normally by Walter Bender). However this model has changed.
Activities in github are maintained by the community regardless of the original
author or contributor - e.g ports to GTK3. A maintainer suggests someone
dealing with an issue while a developer is adding a new feature. The
distinction is not significant - all are contributors.

[11]Checklist - anyone

   • [12][ ] make a fork and clone it, (clone seems sufficient) Generally,
 developers are likely to clone to their own laptop and work there).

   • [13

Re: [Sugar-devel] [sugarlabs/ajedrez-activity] Adding A Suitable License (#1)

[Tony Anderson]

Naturally it is easy to comment on what you haven't read.

When you propose a change to practice - it certainly isn't going to 
match. Current practice finds us with almost 80 activities which have

been ported to GTK3 and which are not available to users via ASLO.

I am an activity maintainer - sadly not to benefit SugarLabs but for 
deployments with a school server. However, the result will be to make 
these activities available for 1000+ users.


Tony

On Tuesday, 22 May, 2018 10:32 AM, James Cameron wrote:

TL;DR.  Too long, didn't read.

What I did read doesn't match with the situation and practice; and
you're not an activity maintainer, so I don't think you know what you
are talking about.

Development process is optimised for activity maintainers, not
integrators and certainly not users.

If any activity maintainers have the time to stop maintaining
activities and respond to these points from Tony, please let me know
what you think.

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 10:08:36AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

You repeated that I destroyed something. Ignoring commits does not mean there
was destruction. I apologize again for my ignorance of the fact that people
were developing and maintaining activities in cyberspace.

Git history or no, the important point is to have working activities available
to our users and prospective users. This is the vital role of ASLO.

My comment about + was, of course, that I see no improvement in GTK3 over GTK2
but only the cost of its deliberately incompatible implementation. So far, it
appears that Gimp has been unable to complete the port even though GTK was
created as a toolkit for Gimp. They may skip GTK3 and start directly to GTK4.

I think your contributing document is incomplete and needs to be modified. The
most important point is that applying procedures necessary for Sugar OS
development to activity developers is unnecessary overkill.

The Contributing section applies only to Sugar OS and ought not be applied to
activities. Following are my comments on 'Modifying Activities'.

[1]Modifying Activities

Most activity repositories can be found in our [2]GitHub sugarlabs organization
. An alternative fact.  At present about 20% are there. (198/514).

A few activity repositories are somewhere else; read the activity/activity.info
file, check the metadata on the [3]activities.sugarlabs.org app store, or the
[4]Activity page on wiki.sugarlabs.org, or our deprecated [5]gitorious instance
. No, The starting point should be a clone of the repository on github/
SugarLabs or the current version on ASLO if no repository is on github.

For new activities, see [6]Write your own Sugar desktop activity, or [7]Write
your own Sugar web activity, then make a new repository in your GitHub account,
put the source code in it, then ask the [8]systems@ list to move it to the
GitHub sugarlabs organization.

Excellent. This should also be the model for new versions of an activity. This
is a workable procedure where [9]syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org is manned by the
Activity Team. So a typical procedure would be to clone an activity to a
personal computer with Sugar. The developer makes changes such as a port to
GTK3. During the port, the activity is launched and the log is checked to see
why it is not starting. When the contributor has completed a new version it is
pushed to the contributors github. The contributor sends an email to [10]
syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org notifying the Activity Team that a new version is
ready for release.

After modifying an activity, a new release may be needed. Some activities have
no maintainer, so you may need to be the maintainer for a short time.

The original model was that one person was responsible for an activity - but
could bring on co-contributors. New versions were submitted to ASLO and after
review released (normally by Walter Bender). However this model has changed.
Activities in github are maintained by the community regardless of the original
author or contributor - e.g ports to GTK3. A maintainer suggests someone
dealing with an issue while a developer is adding a new feature. The
distinction is not significant - all are contributors.

[11]Checklist - anyone

   • [12][ ] make a fork and clone it, (clone seems sufficient) Generally,
 developers are likely to clone to their own laptop and work there).

   • [13][ ] check if what you want to change is available already in any other
 branches or forks - no, the base for any change needs to be the activity
 master on github. If code is ready somewhere in cyberspace, it needs to be
 merged to the activity master to make a new version.
   • [14][ ] make and test your changes, changes can be made in the Activities
 folder in Ubuntu or an XO Sugar. This process allows immediate testing of
 changes.

   • [15][ ] if your changes add a new feature or will affect users; update the
 NEWS file, the README.md file, and the help-activity, when commiting a new
 version, there needs

Re: [Sugar-devel] [sugarlabs/ajedrez-activity] Adding A Suitable License (#1)

[Tony Anderson]

 documentation for 47
   activites of 514. The help activity is an activity. However, the
   documentation is part of the Sugarlabs web site. At the moment it is
   much more practical to leave the help activity out of this process
   except if a new version of the help activity itself is being submitted.
   //

 *

   ///for activities that include a tarball release, or where Fedora or
   Debian packages may be made, create a tarball using //|python
   setup.py dist_source|//, and upload tarball to
   download.sugarlabs.org using shell account, /I have no knowledge of
   what this is about - but I don't know how a contributor would know
   where Fedora or Debian packages may be made. Why does this matter
   for an activity?
   //

 *

   /create bundle using //|python setup.py dist_xo|//, test that it can
   be installed by Browse, and upload to activities.sugarlabs.org using
   developer account./ This absolutely needs to be done. The test with
   setup.py, installing with Browse is a task for the contributor. The
   'upload to activities.sugarlabs.org' task is the primary
   responsibility in this section and of the Activity Team. This
   neglect of this task makes about 80 activities which have been
   ported to GTK3 unavailable to our users.

In summary,

Activities are developed and maintained by community contributors. A 
contributor can be expected to develop a new version of an activity on 
their own computer offline. The availability of Sugar on Ubuntu makes 
this a particularly attractive development environment. When a 
contributor has completed and tested, the git repository is pushed to 
the contributors github account and an email message sent to 
syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org. The Activity Team verifies the basics: the 
new version produces a bundle by setup.py, the version number has been 
incremented, the bundle can be installed by Browse, the activity 
launches and starts. Once verified the Activity Team installs the bundle 
in its addon id directory in ASLO and updates the addon interface. Any 
repository for an activity which is not in github/SugarLabs (or better 
github/SugarActivities) is invisible to the process. Any contributor 
intervention for an activity should start from the github repository, if 
any or from a bundle downloaded from ASLO, if not.


Tony

On Tuesday, 22 May, 2018 07:44 AM, James Cameron wrote:

There were two repositories.  You destroyed, by ignoring, commits to
those repositories.  You've done it several times now; but I'm not
surprised, as you aren't an activity maintainer yet.

GTK+ is the name to the toolkit according to both The GTK+ Project and
Wikipedia.  It deserves a "+" because that's the name the authors
used.  I'll continue to credit their work by using the proper name.

https://www.gtk.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTK%2B

The list of tasks for an activity maintainer is in
https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/contributing.md#checklist---maintainer
and already includes incrementing a version number.

Translations should be merged to honour the work done by translators;
it is the same activity, based on recursive comparison of files.

I don't plan to make this activity available for Ubuntu Sugar, because
it is in terrible shape.  If someone were to maintain it, then I'd be
a bit more interested.

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 07:10:36AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

I really wish you would be a bit more careful with the facts. There was no
repository for this activity, so it is impossible that i destroyed anything.

Why would you merge translations from one activity to another when neither has
been ported to GTK3?

Porting to GTK3 (no evidence that it deserves a +), should affect the wrapper
code and not the binary. Making this activity or gnuchess available for the
Ubuntu Sugar would be helpful.

A simple alternative is to install gnuchess on the Gnome desktop and then
prepare a simple wrapper from the HelloWorld activity (GTK3 version in the
repository). The wrapper would execute gnuchess in Sugar.

EndGame activity is a different animal as it teaches simple end games in chess.

I appreciate your including release in the set of tasks, something which has
not been done. One of your bullets should be to increment the version number.

Tony

On Monday, 21 May, 2018 05:10 PM, James Cameron wrote:

 [1]@yashagrawal3, you might defer this activity to later in your list,
 because it will be a huge time sink. This activity needs much more than a
 COPYING file. It needs;

   □ restoring the git history lost when [2]@tony37 created the repository
 from a bundle instead of using [3]http://git.sugarlabs.org/ceibal-chess
 or [4]https://github.com/alesegovia/ceibal-chess
   □ add license metadata in activity.info (which can be found in [5]
 @alesegovia's repository), along with a license for the embedded
 binary,
   □ removing the MANIFEST file,
   □ updating the embedded binary to the latest ve

Re: [Sugar-devel] [sugarlabs/ajedrez-activity] Adding A Suitable License (#1)

[Tony Anderson]

I really wish you would be a bit more careful with the facts. There was 
no repository for this activity, so it is impossible that i destroyed 
anything.


Why would you merge translations from one activity to another when 
neither has been ported to GTK3?


Porting to GTK3 (no evidence that it deserves a +), should affect the 
wrapper code and not the binary. Making this activity or gnuchess 
available for the Ubuntu Sugar would be helpful.


A simple alternative is to install gnuchess on the Gnome desktop and 
then prepare a simple wrapper from the HelloWorld activity (GTK3 version 
in the repository). The wrapper would execute gnuchess in Sugar.


EndGame activity is a different animal as it teaches simple end games in 
chess.


I appreciate your including release in the set of tasks, something which 
has not been done. One of your bullets should be to increment the 
version number.


Tony



On Monday, 21 May, 2018 05:10 PM, James Cameron wrote:


@yashagrawal3 , you might defer this 
activity to later in your list, because it will be a huge time sink. 
This activity needs much more than a COPYING file. It needs;


  * restoring the git history lost when @tony37
 created the repository from a bundle
instead of using http://git.sugarlabs.org/ceibal-chess or
https://github.com/alesegovia/ceibal-chess
  * add license metadata in activity.info (which can be found in
@alesegovia 's repository), along
with a license for the embedded binary,
  * removing the MANIFEST file,
  * updating the embedded binary to the latest version and including
other architectures; or adding a dependency that must be resolved
before installing the activity.
  * perhaps merging translations from the SimpleGNUChess activity on
https://translate.sugarlabs.org
  * testing,
  * porting to GTK+ 3,
  * testing,
  * release.

@alesegovia  may have some ideas on how 
to proceed.


—
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub 
, 
or mute the thread 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Response in Re: you needed Assistance

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Bastien,

It's the chicken and the egg issue. It is really hard to recruit people 
to work on activities because of the high learning curve. I am sure we 
could get some help from Rwanda but the technical experience is entirely 
with Windows and so git already is over the top.


The original design of Sugar took this into account. An installed 
activity is in /home/olpc/Activities with all of the source code 
immediately available. Changes to the source code can be made and tested 
on the XO.


I think we could get close to this environment by recognizing that 
someone can change the code on their own Sugar system and test it there. 
When they have fixed a problem or completed building and testing a new 
capability, they can then use github as a means to upload the changes to 
be merged by the Activity Team.


With the actvities, the code repos are on ASLO since every activity is 
its own repo. All that is needed is to unzip the bundle, git init the 
folder, and add to github.


This works because we don't have the concerns necessary when adding and 
changing the Sugar OS code.


Tony


On Saturday, 19 May, 2018 04:01 PM, Bastien wrote:

Hi Tony,

Tony Anderson <t...@olenepal.org> writes:


The same basic principal applies to the activities, but I believe that
we should have a github.com/sugaractivities for repositories of Sugar
activities.

I'm too far away from Sugar development for my opinion to really
weight in here, but this sounds like a good idea.

Also, on a more general level: we tend to focus on gathering code
repos while the problem often stems out of sparsed developers.

So perhaps this all should be about *gathering developers* first,
repositories next.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Response in Re: you needed Assistance

[Tony Anderson]

Sugar has two separate components: Sugar OS and Sugar activities. I 
don't believe anyone believes that the source code for Sugar OS should 
be anywhare a developer wants. Developers are free and should develop on 
their own repository often on their own development machine. The goal of 
the development is to improve Sugar in a future release. When ready, the 
developer needs to upload the change to SugarLabs github repository 
(e.g. by a PR). Back in the day, a pull request was a signal that a 
change was proposed and that other developers should pause until the 
change was merged. In this method the pull request was made for a very 
short time before it was merged and developers were free to check their 
changes to see if they were affected. Many developments use this 
technique to manage continuous integration where at any moment a build 
can be made from the repository to make sure it does not have 
regressions and to test the new capability.


So there is never a requirement that a developer does their work on the 
SugarLabs github, but there is a requirement that all changes that go 
into a release be made there.


The same basic principal applies to the activities, but I believe that 
we should have a github.com/sugaractivities for repositories of Sugar 
activities. All releases of activities to ASLO should be made from the 
github/sugaractivities repostory by the Activity Team. The git 
procedures for activities should not be the same as for Sugar OS since 
the requirements are completely different.


For Sugar OS, the code in mulitple repositories must be integrated to 
make a release and the developers are working concurrently on changes 
for the next release. Testing also needs to be much more extensive 
(hence, the value of continuous integration, automated regression tests 
and so on.


Sugar activities are developed and released by individual activity. This 
means far less collaborative work on a specific activity - most fixes 
and development are done by individuals for that particular activity. 
Further, the cost of a mistake is minimal. First, it affects at most one 
activity. Second, the user has a ready fallback to the previous version 
and even the ability to fix the problem themselves since the activity 
contains all of the code.


Keeping the two separate, enables having different development 
procedures and safety checks.


Because of the confusion in implementation of github, we are in a 
situation that nearly two hundred activities with github repositories 
are unavailable to Ubuntu users of Sugar - wasting the effort of many 
GCI and GSOC contributors. Currently there are only 10 activities 
available for the Ubuntu Sugar. This is apparently the consequence of 
attempting to apply procedures appropriate and necessary for Sugar OS to 
the Sugar activities.


I really appreciate your raising these questions about the goal of your 
project.


Tony

On Saturday, 19 May, 2018 05:40 AM, James Cameron wrote:

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 11:14:45PM +0200, Bastien wrote:

Hi James,

James Cameron  writes:


People have often said "we should migrate them all to GitHub", but as
far as I can see the only _sensible_ justification is where pull
requests are to be merged by multiple developers.

Another justification would be to help *discovery* of repositories by
potential contributors.

Yes.  On the other hand we have too many already, and no lack of
opportunities for potential contributors.


While I recognize enforcing a central authority is not good, there is
still value in encouraging people to use https://github.com/sugarlabs
which is what the Github button does on the homepage.

Yes, sure, encourage.  But not to mandate.

My practice is to fork newly discovered repositories into
https://github.com/sugarlabs

And then turn off Issues, Projects, Wiki features, only allow Merge
commits.

An example is yet another Sugar Labs related repository by a developer
created outside Sugar Labs;

https://github.com/amanharitsh123/sugarizer-school-box

Forked to Sugar Labs;

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugarizer-school-box

And appears to contain many similar commits to existing Sugar Labs
repository from last year;

https://github.com/sugarlabs/rpi23-gen-image

GitHub as a confusion creation tool.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] FAQ on Sugarizer

[Tony Anderson]

At the cited meeting, I was prepared to update the status of activities 
on ASLO and github. However, there was

no interest.

A quick summary: There are 514 activities divided into three groups:
    83  which have the current version from github installed on aslo 
(http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities/)
   104 which are in github but not installed on aslo (and hence not 
available to our users)

   324 which are installed in ASLO but not in github

The primary problem with the 104 activities is the failure to update the 
version number. This appears to result from an
erroneous instruction that the update to the version should be made by 
the mythical maintainer. This is contrary to Sugar practice
over the past 10+ years. The practice has been for the 
developer/maintainer to update the version number when releasing a change.
As an example, the version number of Turtle Blocks (Art) is 216. Only 
the person making the changes knows when the implementation is

complete and ready for release and so must commit the version number change.

It would be a simple matter to update the version numbers (I have for 
the school server aslolite). As a result, our users on Ubuntu may have 
access to 187 activities.


It is amazing when we are worried about code coverage to find several 
activities in github that do not have setup.py. Certainly, whoever is 
posting changes to github can take the time to run python setup.py.


There were three activities where setup.py failed due to errors in po. 
In two cases, the file contained duplicate entries - this was trivial to 
fix. In another, setup.py crashed in genpot!


Along with wanting Music Blocks in Sugarizer, it would be nice to find 
it in ASLO. Without a specific release, the user is left to find out 
whether the current code is in a stable state. This, of course, is the 
reason for version numbers. It separates tested releases from ongoing 
development versions.


A essential element of the github process is to mark versions as 
released so that real maintainers can reproduce the environment in a bug 
report.


Reports from users would be more likely if they were given serious 
attention instead of the normal handwaving. My report on the version 
problem with HelloWorld - chosen as a simple example of the problem - 
was to remove it from public view!


What we have needed for a long time is a system like the one Adam Holt 
created at OLPC - a h...@sugarlabs.org monitored by a volunteer team 
that would respond and try to find a solution to the problems (support 
gang).


Tony



On Thursday, 17 May, 2018 05:25 AM, Walter Bender wrote:



On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:09 PM James Cameron > wrote:


On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 10:27:59PM +0200, Lionel Laské wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've read on a recent sugar-meeting questions regarding Sugarizer
> packaging.
> Because I've just released version 1.0,

Thanks for the reminder; I've rebased the Sugar Labs clone of your
Sugarizer repository.

> I think it's the right time to build a Sugarizer FAQ. I'm answering
> below on questions asked during this meeting but I will be please to
> add to this future FAQ all questions you're interested to ask. Don't
> be shy :-)

My remaining question at the end of my mail.


I'll post my questions at the end as well.


> Who is responsible of the packaging of Sugarizer ? Who choose
> activities distributed inside Sugarizer ?
>
> I'm choosing all activities integrated into the Sugarizer package.
>
> It's an editorial choice. It's also a way to simplify use of
> Sugarizer by non technical guys.
>
> Finally it's a way to ensure a good quality: I spent lot of time
> before each release to test each activity on each supported platform
> (Chrome, Firefox, Safari, EDGE, Android, iOS, ChromeOS, Windows 10).

Thanks.  This is the same strategy I use for OLPC OS on Fedora and
Ubuntu, and for Sugar Live Build.  The results are;

- completeness,

- complementary activities, due to careful selection,

- reduced software defects distributed, due to full testing.

I've done this because the individual activity model only worked
when there was a feedback path from the end-user to an activity
maintainer.  Without activity maintainers, I've had to take most of
that role myself.  Without feedback, fatal bugs have gone undetected
for months to years at a time.


As a sometimes activity maintainer, my biggest issue is that I get 
zero feedback from the deployments about bugs or anything else for 
that matter. This is true for both Sugar and Sugarizer.



> BTW all deployment is free to change (add/remove) activities
> packaged in Sugarizer - see below.
>
>
>
> Is it possible to change activities package into Sugarizer ?
>
> Because each activities has it's own directory in Sugarizer, It's
> easy to 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Where shall I start contributing?

[Tony Anderson]

So let's discourage his help. I would be happy to work with him on 
coming up with a reasonable protocol.


Tony

On Saturday, 12 May, 2018 11:52 AM, James Cameron wrote:

On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 07:23:21AM +0530, Jaskirat Singh wrote:

Hello !

One of the GSOC aspirant is working on the "Beginner guide for new comers"
along with the mentors. So i think this will soon help us in providing an
appropriate path to the new contributors.

Thanks.  You are talking about Pratul Kumar,
https://medium.com/@pratulkumar/gsoc-introduction-to-the-community-ed47e04e3051

Pratul should become an activity maintainer before being trusted to guide
beginner developers to that same goal.

Back on 14th February, when Pratul first mentioned their interest in
the project, I mentioned several risks and gave links to our existing
beginner guides written by Rahul, pipix51, Walter, and I.  These
guides continue to be updated.

Perhaps the mentors might help?  I don't think so.  Mentors that
Pratul met with are Jaskirat Singh, Divyanshu Rawat, Abdulazeez
Abdulazeez and Shivang Shekhar.  None of these are an activity
maintainer.

Perhaps the other mentors might help?  I don't think so.  Wiki page
also mentions Hrishi Patel, Rishabh Thaney and Samson Goddy.  None of
these are an activity maintainer, though Hrishi has had a go at making
changes to Sugar Toolkit documentation.

What will Pratul do about the problem of our collective failure to
maintain Sugar activities?  There's a challenge.  ;-)



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Where shall I start contributing?

[Tony Anderson]

I am not 'surprised' by this - I am shocked! There are only 10 
activities installed on the Ubuntu Sugar. The rest must be obtained from 
ASLO. Ubuntu 18.04 does not support GTK. The net effect is that few of 
the activities on ASLO will work in Sugar on Ubuntu.


We have wasted precious technical resources to perform the port and then 
failing to deliver the results to our users. Fixing this would seem to 
be within the scope of the 'Say no to GTK' project.


The purpose of the spreadsheet is to make our status visible. We need to 
operate in the real world. I believe we should clearly distinguish 
between ASLO (the activities in activities.sugarlabs.org/activities/ and 
ASLO the addon interface. Our problem with ASLO is primarily the poor 
state of the activities/ and not the interface (which has its own 
problems, of course). The spreadsheet is based on activities/. During my 
professional life, it was considered mandatory to collect the facts and 
make a plan before implementation. I think you will be pleasantly 
surprised when a contributor has a specific task that is clearly needed 
and clearly defined.


Even if I had time to maintain activities, I would probably still not 
consider that a good use of my time. The update procedure is 
inappropriate to the task. Contributing an update to an activity does 
not require the procedures appropriate for Sugar itself. A problem with 
an activity only affects that activity so the maximum risk for error is 
limited. In the original ASLO procedure, the registered contributor 
updates the version with each change. Each submitted change was reviewed 
- normally by Walter Bender - before being added to ASLO. I shudder to 
think the time that would be required to update the version number for 
Hello World from 6 to 7.


Tony


On Saturday, 12 May, 2018 09:15 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Yes, and that's in my linked guide to contributing.

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/contributing.md#modifying-activities

Don't be surprised at the "not the same" situation.  Changes (commits)
to activities are made on GitHub without updating the version number
and making a release.  This is so that changes can be combined and
tested before a release, instead of making a release after every
change.  But at the moment, without activity maintainers, the changes
don't get tested, changes don't get released, bundles don't get made,
and upload isn't happening.  These steps are missing;

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/contributing.md#checklist---maintainer

Incidentally, I'm certain ASLOv3 won't help with that; because it
won't do anything to combine and test changes; the human intelligence
step in making a release.  Barking up the wrong tree.

Thanks for the spreadsheet views, but I fear they will do nothing
except to make our human problem so much larger by making it more
visible.  ;-)

Could you be an activity maintainer instead?  I'm maintaining Record
at the moment, and have nearly finished porting to GTK+ 3 and
GStreamer 1.14.  I've been at it on and off since 2016, and it has
consumed most of my week.

On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 08:30:58AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

I believe our immediate need is maintenance on ASLO
(Acitivities.SugarLabs.org). It is going to take another day or two to
complete reviewing the bundles from http://github.com/SugarLabs; however, it
is evident that a large number have the name version number as the version
on ASLO but are not the same. Sadly, this means that many of the conversions
to GTK3 are not available to users with Sugar on Ubuntu.

When finished I will post an updated spreadsheet showing the problem
bundles.

Tony

On Saturday, 12 May, 2018 08:19 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Someone asked me privately how they might contribute.  My answer may
be useful to others.

Someone said;

where should I start?

Thanks for your question.

1.  don't ask this question privately if you don't need to; Sugar Labs
is an open community project, and this kind of question is best asked
in public on sugar-devel@ mailing list, so that you get the most
complex of responses, from which you can average or integrate.

2.  my recent post "How to get started as a Sugar Labs developer" may
be helpful; rather than quote it here, I'll link to it;

http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-April/055284.html

3.  our documentation for new contributors suggests many things, so be
sure to read these documents;

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/how-can-i-help.md
https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/contributing.md

4.  you might follow along behind the GSoC teams, and read their
meeting minutes, use http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/ to watch for new
meetings, to learn how others work,

5.  you will know from my GitHub activity that my contribution is
coding.  If you do coding, you will talk to me quite a bit.  If you do
something other than coding, I might not answer

Re: [Sugar-devel] Where shall I start contributing?

[Tony Anderson]

I believe our immediate need is maintenance on ASLO 
(Acitivities.SugarLabs.org). It is going to take another day or two to 
complete reviewing the bundles from http://github.com/SugarLabs; 
however, it is evident that a large number have the name version number 
as the version on ASLO but are not the same. Sadly, this means that many 
of the conversions to GTK3 are not available to users with Sugar on Ubuntu.


When finished I will post an updated spreadsheet showing the problem 
bundles.


Tony

On Saturday, 12 May, 2018 08:19 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Someone asked me privately how they might contribute.  My answer may
be useful to others.

Someone said;

where should I start?

Thanks for your question.

1.  don't ask this question privately if you don't need to; Sugar Labs
is an open community project, and this kind of question is best asked
in public on sugar-devel@ mailing list, so that you get the most
complex of responses, from which you can average or integrate.

2.  my recent post "How to get started as a Sugar Labs developer" may
be helpful; rather than quote it here, I'll link to it;

http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-April/055284.html

3.  our documentation for new contributors suggests many things, so be
sure to read these documents;

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/how-can-i-help.md
https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/contributing.md

4.  you might follow along behind the GSoC teams, and read their
meeting minutes, use http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/ to watch for new
meetings, to learn how others work,

5.  you will know from my GitHub activity that my contribution is
coding.  If you do coding, you will talk to me quite a bit.  If you do
something other than coding, I might not answer much.  Someone else
would help you instead.

--

Disclosure statement; I'm a contributor to Sugar Labs and am paid by
One Laptop per Child.  It is in my interest if you work on Sugar
activities that OLPC uses.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Chrome Books?

[Tony Anderson]

Except access to Ubuntu, Python, and Sugar.

Tony


On Wednesday, 09 May, 2018 01:47 PM, James Cameron wrote:

Sugarizer is available now in the Chrome Web Store, there's no need to
add Linux native app support.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Meeting #2 of the project Setting up activity server.

[Tony Anderson]

Clearly my intent with the inventory is to identify those activities 
that are working (and in which environments). Hopefully, Caryl Bigenho's 
educational committee can get information from the users as to which of 
the non-working activities should have priority to bring back into 
working order. The 87 activities are working when generated by 
bundle-builder on both Ubuntu and the XO (needs further testing but the 
one's tested so far with one exception have worked on an XO-1.5). So I 
don';t see what extensive effort will be needed to keep them working.


Where we need to be realistic is in stating that an activity works on 
Sugar versions from 0.84 to 0.112. In general activities should be 
supported only with the current release of Sugare github.


I was hoping there was a place on github.com/sugarlabs where we could 
post the spreadsheet so that it can be kept up to date reflecting the 
current status.


Aside from the port to gtk3, the primary problem seemed to be webkit. Is 
there a way to import webkit that works with both Ubuntu 18.04 and 
13.2.9? Do we need to have two separate versions of activities - one for 
Ubuntu and one for 13.2.9?


Tony


On Monday, 07 May, 2018 03:17 PM, James Cameron wrote:

Thanks, this will be useful for anyone deploying Sugar on Ubuntu
18.04.

I think the best thing to do is to concentrate on the 87 working
activities and keep them working.  That will take about 50% of our
effort for the next year.

Then fix the activities that did work on the XO-1.5 with Fedora 18 and
did not work on Ubuntu 18.04.

Activities that don't work on either are defunct, and not worth
fixing, or someone would have done so by now.

I don't think official repositories are at all necessary, until and
unless the activities can be made to work.  My preference is to remove
from github.com/sugarlabs activities that can't be made to work in a
reasonable time ... i.e. the past year.

On Mon, May 07, 2018 at 01:50:29PM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

Attahed is a spreadsheet inventory of the Sugar activities on ASLO. Except for
clerical errors, this is accurate and complete as of mid-April, 2018. It
reports on 537 activities. With a very nine exceptions, each activity has an xo
bundle on ASLO ([1]http://downloads.sugarlabs.org/activities). The first column
gives the folder name. The fourth column is the bundle (file name).

The bundles tested on Ubuntu were built (setup.py) from the github repository
(fifth column). There is no assurance that this bundle corresponds to the
bundle with that name on ASLO itself. The testing on the XO-1.5 is not
complete. This testing was done by downloading the bundle built on Ubuntu to
the XO from the schoolserver. The ten activities on the Ubuntu install were not
independently tested.

In Summary, the spreadsheet shows 528 sugar activities (bundles). Of these, 224
have repositories on github. Of these, 87 work on 0.112 on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.

My assumption is that the official repository for each activity is on
github.com/sugarlabs/. Any bundle released to ASLO is built from the that
repository. This implies a need to get official repositories established for
the 304 activities which do not have one. A reasonable first focus is on the
137 repositories that do not produce a working version.

These numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt. For example,
sugar-web-activities are shown among the 304 only because of the testing
procedure. However, with help from interested parties, the spreadsheet can be
made more accurate. It probably needs to be put up on the Sugarlabs site -
possibly on github. I am certainly willing to follow instructions in this
regard.

My primary motivation is to provide an inventory of Sugar activities on the
schoolserver which users can download and install. The school server view is
similar to that cited by Walter. It requires only the simplest of html5 and
javascript. The display is data driven. The primary problem is to know which of
the activities are viable. It can be very discouraging to download an activity
and have it return 'did not start'.

Tony

On Monday, 07 May, 2018 11:02 AM, Thomas Gilliard wrote:

 On 05/06/2018 07:17 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

 On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:00 PM Tony Anderson <[2]t...@olenepal.org>
 wrote:

 Hi, Walter

 Is there a link to a description of the proposed new server? I
 assume that what you mean is that a new physical server will become
 host to ASLO. Naturally, I am much more interested in the
 capabilities of the service than the server.

 I am referring to [3]https://aslo3-devel.sugarlabs.org (I see James
 answered you while I was typing this.)

 looks like [4]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/thumb/2/29/
 SN-0.3_Offline.png/800px-SN-0.3_Offline.png
 sugar network  [5]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Tutorial

  


 It is really hard for me to s

Re: [Sugar-devel] Meeting #2 of the project Setting up activity server.

[Tony Anderson]

Attahed is a spreadsheet inventory of the Sugar activities on ASLO. 
Except for clerical errors, this is accurate and complete as of 
mid-April, 2018. It reports on 537 activities. With a very nine 
exceptions, each activity has an xo bundle on ASLO 
(http://downloads.sugarlabs.org/activities). The first column gives the 
folder name. The fourth column is the bundle (file name).


The bundles tested on Ubuntu were built (setup.py) from the github 
repository (fifth column). There is no assurance that this bundle 
corresponds to the bundle with that name on ASLO itself. The testing on 
the XO-1.5 is not complete. This testing was done by downloading the 
bundle built on Ubuntu to the XO from the schoolserver. The ten 
activities on the Ubuntu install were not independently tested.


In Summary, the spreadsheet shows 528 sugar activities (bundles). Of 
these, 224 have repositories on github. Of these, 87 work on 0.112 on 
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.


My assumption is that the official repository for each activity is on 
github.com/sugarlabs/. Any bundle released to ASLO is built from the 
that repository. This implies a need to get official repositories 
established for the 304 activities which do not have one. A reasonable 
first focus is on the 137 repositories that do not produce a working 
version.


These numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt. For example, 
sugar-web-activities are shown among the 304 only because of the testing 
procedure. However, with help from interested parties, the spreadsheet 
can be made more accurate. It probably needs to be put up on the 
Sugarlabs site - possibly on github. I am certainly willing to follow 
instructions in this regard.


My primary motivation is to provide an inventory of Sugar activities on 
the schoolserver which users can download and install. The school server 
view is similar to that cited by Walter. It requires only the simplest 
of html5 and javascript. The display is data driven. The primary problem 
is to know which of the activities are viable. It can be very 
discouraging to download an activity and have it return 'did not start'.


Tony

On Monday, 07 May, 2018 11:02 AM, Thomas Gilliard wrote:




On 05/06/2018 07:17 PM, Walter Bender wrote:



On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:00 PM Tony Anderson <t...@olenepal.org 
<mailto:t...@olenepal.org>> wrote:


Hi, Walter

Is there a link to a description of the proposed new server? I
assume that what you mean is that a new physical server will
become host to ASLO. Naturally, I am much more interested in the
capabilities of the service than the server.

I am referring to https://aslo3-devel.sugarlabs.org (I see James 
answered you while I was typing this.)
looks like 
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/thumb/2/29/SN-0.3_Offline.png/800px-SN-0.3_Offline.png

sugar network https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Tutorial


It is really hard for me to see any connection between
activity.info <http://activity.info> and an activity service
(which supplies information about activities and downloads the
bundle  on request).I assume these consistency tests are made
before a new activity version is released and is part of the
process of creating a github repository.


The database for ASLO3 is derived from the activity.info 
<http://activity.info> files. But those data need cleaning up. This 
is why we have not gone live with the new server.


The python script can use a loop on the list of bundles:

for activity in activities:

 #use zipfile to read the activity.info
<http://activity.info> file

 #count or test for any property

 #report (e.g. print ) result of test by activity

#report summary of loop execution


I do not have any idea of what you are referring to by a
screenshot. I certainly hope there is no intent to add a
screenshot to an activity bundle. It may be fun to revel in
storage available on a PC but the overwhelming number of our
users have XO laptops with very limited storage. This is similar
to the trend to make Sugar more dependent on the internet. For
example, sudo apt-get install sucrose is difficult to accomplish
in a room with 40 laptops and no internet, the current situation
in Rwanda with the Positivo laptop.


We use screenshots in the activity portal. They need not be included 
in the bundles.



Tony

On Monday, 07 May, 2018 09:35 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

This particular discussion was about activity.info
<http://activity.info> because the student is working on getting
the activity server on line and cleaning up the activity.info
<http://activity.info> files is an essential step.

I interpret https://github.com/sugar-activities as an
attempt to provide a separate place for Sugar activity
repositories based on download.sugarlabs.org/activities
<http://download.sugarlabs.org/

Re: [Sugar-devel] Meeting #2 of the project Setting up activity server.

[Tony Anderson]

If you believe it is trash, remove it. It is trash only in that there 
was no follow-up. You and Walter seem to want everything in one bucket. 
In the past few days I have spent a lot of time on github using search 
to find out if there is a repository for an activity. So, if you feel it 
is correct, delete the sugaractivities trash.


The list of tries to clean up ASLO shows the problem. Each attempt 
started by trashing ASLO and beginning again. What is needed is to 
leverage what we have. I believe the first step is to make an up-to-date 
inventory of the Sugar activities and their status. That is my current 
focus.


Never is a long time.

"Rather than stuff
around with ASLO, we really need activity maintainers who will release
new activity versions."

Agreed.

Version numbers are treated in Sugar as text, so you are certainly 
correct. An activity version could be 'wonderful'.
However, the bundle browse-157.3.xo shows the version number. We could 
have myactivity-wonderful.xo.


This number by convention should be an integer incremented by a new 
release. This immediately informs the user that if the installed 
activity (List View) version number is less than the current version 
number on ASLO, there is a possible update. The original guidelines were 
to increment version numbers by 1.


Bundle deletion should never be done automatically. It requires a 
thoughtful decision. The decision to block Hello World illustrates our 
fundamental problem. We choose to 'deprecate' since it means the problem 
is no longer a problem and no further action is needed. Blocking Hello 
World doesn't seem much simpler than building a bundle by setup.py from 
the repository (after updating the version number to 7) and then 
installing in on ASLO. I know you are capable of both steps. Having a 
simple activity that users can refer to when attempting to build their 
own activity should be an essential part of our educational objective. 
Blocking does serve the purpose of eliminating the problem.


Tony

On Monday, 07 May, 2018 09:49 AM, James Cameron wrote:

No surprise that this meeting didn't discuss an activity server or
WikiPort, because (a) the questions were about a private mail (there
was no link), and (b) the new term WikiPort is Vipul's name for the
project.

I interpret https://github.com/sugar-activities as trash left lying
around by a previous contributor.  It ruins code and text searches on
GitHub, because there are so many matches in the wrong place.  I've
had two contributors misidentify repositories because of it.

While it would be nice to clean up ASLO, this is obviously never going
to happen, because we've had so many people try already, then fail.
ASLOv2, then ASLOv3, and we're still on ASLOv1.  I've fixed a few
things, 'cause I can code in PHP.  It's not hard.  Rather than stuff
around with ASLO, we really need activity maintainers who will release
new activity versions.

You're wrong about the version numbers.  Sugar supports version
numbers with any number of periods separated by numbers.  Our
specification of version number is
https://developer.sugarlabs.org/sugar3/sugar3.bundle.bundleversion.html

(For others, "real" is FORTRAN for floating point.  Both Tony and I
used Fortran.)

Yes, automatic bundle deletion should be done.  Any volunteers to do
it?  Thought not.  https://github.com/sugarlabs/browse-activity/issues/81

On Mon, May 07, 2018 at 09:20:08AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:

I read the log and didn't see any discussion of either an activity server or a
WikiPort. Most of the discussion seems to focus on 'activity.info'.

I interpret [1]https://github.com/sugar-activities as an attempt to provide a
separate place for Sugar activity repositories based on download.sugarlabs.org/
activities. The number of activities mentioned is consistent with the current
content of ASLO. (see [2]http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities/)

A simple python script can process the activity.info in activity bundles very
quickly. Simply download every activity bundle and then use import zipfile to
read the activity.info file and check it for whatever is interesting. I
generally use ls -1 *.xo > list to create a file. The python script can easily
form a list of activities from this file.

Our primary goal must be to provide information and support for our users and
prospective users. There is no reason for a user ever to know that there is an
activity.info file or indeed an Activities folder. The original design provides
the information needed for Sugar to register and execute the activity within
the activity.py framework. In this spirit, the repository link should join the
website link on ASLO where it is visible to the user.

In the spirit of view source, wouldn't it be helpful to have documentation
giving the  user a map of Sugar and the role of the various modules? This could
start with the information in activity.py. (/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/
sugar3/activity/activity.py). This

Re: [Sugar-devel] Meeting #2 of the project Setting up activity server.

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Walter

Is there a link to a description of the proposed new server? I assume 
that what you mean is that a new physical server will become host to 
ASLO. Naturally, I am much more interested in the capabilities of the 
service than the server.


It is really hard for me to see any connection between activity.info and 
an activity service (which supplies information about activities and 
downloads the bundle  on request).I assume these consistency tests are 
made before a new activity version is released and is part of the 
process of creating a github repository.


The python script can use a loop on the list of bundles:

for activity in activities:

 #use zipfile to read the activity.info file

 #count or test for any property

 #report (e.g. print ) result of test by activity

#report summary of loop execution


I do not have any idea of what you are referring to by a screenshot. I 
certainly hope there is no intent to add a screenshot to an activity 
bundle. It may be fun to revel in storage available on a PC but the 
overwhelming number of our users have XO laptops with very limited 
storage. This is similar to the trend to make Sugar more dependent on 
the internet. For example, sudo apt-get install sucrose is difficult to 
accomplish in a room with 40 laptops and no internet, the current 
situation in Rwanda with the Positivo laptop.


Tony

On Monday, 07 May, 2018 09:35 AM, Walter Bender wrote:
This particular discussion was about activity.info 
 because the student is working on getting the 
activity server on line and cleaning up the activity.info 
 files is an essential step.


I interpret https://github.com/sugar-activities as an attempt to
provide a separate place for Sugar activity repositories based on
download.sugarlabs.org/activities
. The number of
activities mentioned is consistent with the current content of
ASLO. (see http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities/)


Yes. We have an on-going effort to migrate to a new activity server 
which is both easier to maintain and a richer experience for our users.


A simple python script can process the activity.info
 in activity bundles very quickly. Simply
download every activity bundle and then use import zipfile to read
the activity.info  file and check it for
whatever is interesting. I generally use ls -1 *.xo > list to
create a file. The python script can easily form a list of
activities from this file.


We are concerned about a number of inconsistencies with the data, 
including license, summary, screen shots, etc.


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Meeting #2 of the project Setting up activity server.

[Tony Anderson]

I read the log and didn't see any discussion of either an activity 
server or a WikiPort. Most of the discussion seems to focus on 
'activity.info'.


I interpret https://github.com/sugar-activities as an attempt to provide 
a separate place for Sugar activity repositories based on 
download.sugarlabs.org/activities. The number of activities mentioned is 
consistent with the current content of ASLO. (see 
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities/)


A simple python script can process the activity.info in activity bundles 
very quickly. Simply download every activity bundle and then use import 
zipfile to read the activity.info file and check it for whatever is 
interesting. I generally use ls -1 *.xo > list to create a file. The 
python script can easily form a list of activities from this file.


Our primary goal must be to provide information and support for our 
users and prospective users. There is no reason for a user ever to know 
that there is an activity.info file or indeed an Activities folder. The 
original design provides the information needed for Sugar to register 
and execute the activity within the activity.py framework. In this 
spirit, the repository link should join the website link on ASLO where 
it is visible to the user.


In the spirit of view source, wouldn't it be helpful to have 
documentation giving the  user a map of Sugar and the role of the 
various modules? This could start with the information in activity.py. 
(/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sugar3/activity/activity.py). This 
could lead in to James Simmons description of how to make a Sugar 
activity. The Hello World activity could be used as intended - as the 
simplest example. The problem with the wiki pages is not the mark up 
method but the organization and content.


Our priority task is to clean up ASLO. The activity version in ASLO 
needs to be released from the github repository with a meaningful 
version number (an integer not a real number). The activities need to be 
tested to see that they work in the Ubuntu 18.04 environment as well as 
in 13.2.9. We need to have a clear picture of the activities which are 
not working and the cause. It may be necessary to have different 
versions for Ubuntu and for 13.2.9. As well there may have to be 
different versions for the Intel processors and the Arm processors. ASLO 
needs to be modified to accommodate that need. There are activities 
which probably should be dropped. The Java activity works well but is 
not an activity. It installs Java - a one-time execution.


We also need to remember that the XO has very limited storage. It is 
essential that the installed activity not be git enabled. Currently the 
Browse activity not only downloads and installs an activity, it leaves a 
copy of the bundle in the Journal. This doubles the storage cost of an 
activity. It burdens our user with the need to switch to the Journal and 
erase the bundle. As developers we need to ask what is the effect a 
proposed change have on the size of the installed activity. Currently 
13.2.9 installed on an XO-1 or on a 2GB XO-1.5 gives the user about 
300MB of available storage.


Tony



On Monday, 07 May, 2018 02:42 AM, Vipul Gupta wrote:

Hi folks,

We are just done with our second meeting, of the project Setting up 
the activity server and WikiPort. Do refer to the logs for the 
updates, all comments and suggestions are appreciated. The blog with 
the updates is going to be uploaded soon on my blog Mixster.


*Logs are here* - 
http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2018-05-06T16:43:50
*Tracker (updated)* - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VdzjA-DnEBh0ntHY17ktXlp7c2pIofq8458gSCTwiSM/edit?usp=sharing


Happy Contributing !!

Cordially,
Vipul Gupta
Mixster  | Github 




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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC Project: Migration of Activities wiki-pages to GitHub

[Tony Anderson]

SugarLabs is our site to communicate with our users and prospective 
users. GitHub is our site to support SugarLabs development. In this 
meeting it is pointed out that maintaining two versions of the wikipages 
will be difficult (obvious, since we are unable to maintain even one). 
The evil word 'deprecation' was used (I would have preferred - 
improved). It is logical to maintain markdown pages describing the 
technical design of an activity (such as Browse or Turtle Blocks). 
However, we need documentation for users with screenshots showing the 
intended method of use and providing challenges to show advanced 
capabilities. ASLO needs more help to enable users to make informed 
decisions on which activities to download and install.


Our current direction seems to lead to us talking only to ourselves.

Tony


On Friday, 04 May, 2018 10:54 PM, divyanshu rawat wrote:

Hi Everyone,

We are done with our first meeting with Rudra Sadhu and he is doing 
great.
Here are the logs of today's meeting: 
http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2018-05-04T14:17:25.

Please share your opinions and suggestions.
And we will be doing the next meeting on next Friday at the same time 
1600 CET.


Best
Divyanshu

‌

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:40 PM, divyanshu rawat 
> wrote:


I will be there to attend.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 10:38 PM, Onuwa Nnachi Isaac
> wrote:

Sounds good.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 18:07 Rudra Sadhu > wrote:

Lets startthis Friday. 1600 CET.
> sure, I'll be present. All community members are invited
to join as well.

Nice article by the way, I made some corrections regarding
some typos.
> thanks a lot! I've rectified them in the blog.

regards,
Rudra Sadhu

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Onuwa Nnachi Isaac
>
wrote:

Greetings from Nigeria,

Welcome to Sugar Labs.

Lets start this Friday. 1600 CET.

We'll use the #sugar IRC.

Nice article by the way, I made some corrections
regarding some typos.

Link to the correction



Warm Regards

Nnachi Isaac Onuwa
https://about.me/iamonuwa




On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Rudra Sadhu
> wrote:

Greetings!

Thank You for the opportunity to work with Sugar
Labs under the banner of Google Summer of Code
this year.

I recently published an introductory blog post[1],
describing my GSoC 2018 journey.
Hope you'll love giving it a read.

To my mentors (Divyanshu Rawat and Onuwa Nnachi
Isaac) :
Let me know your preferences to set up a regular
set of meeting times to discuss the project.
I would prefer them to be on #sugar so that other
community members could possibly join.



Looking forward to a great summer. :)

Thanks,
Rudra Sadhu

[1] https://rdrsadhu.github.io/blog/gsoc2018/




-- 


*Divyanshu Rawat / Software Developer *
*divyanshu.r46...@gmail.com /
+41 779807546 / +91 8003856439*

GSOC Mentor 2018 at Sugalabs, GCI 2017 Mentor at Sugar Labs
Stanford Scholar Initiative, *Harvard Innovation Labs,
UnternehmerTUM GmbH *
*www.divyanshurawat.me *

Twitter  LinkedIn
 Github
 Stack Overflow
 Behance





--

*Divyanshu Rawat / Software Developer *
*divyanshu.r46...@gmail.com / +41 
779807546 / +91 8003856439*


GSOC Mentor 2018 at Sugalabs, GCI 2017 Mentor at Sugar Labs
Stanford Scholar Initiative, *Harvard Innovation Labs, UnternehmerTUM 
GmbH *

*www.divyanshurawat.me *

Twitter  LinkedIn 
 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Initial tests of Sugar on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Walter

No, I am trying to see what runs with a standard LTS and Sugar Install 
(still think it is not good for the brand to sudo apt-get install 
sucrose instead of sugar).
I assume our goal is to create a repository of activities on ASLO that 
is not dependent on gtk2 so that a future build can eliminate the 
storage cost of providing two versions of Sugar.


Tony

On Tuesday, 01 May, 2018 07:52 AM, Walter Bender wrote:



On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:44 AM Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


On April 27, 2018 I downloaded the ubuntu-18.04-desktop-amd64.iso. I
generated a boot usb drive with dd. The usb stick was used to install
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS alongside Windows 10. Sugar was installed using sudo
apt-get install sucrose.

 From http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities, I scraped a list of
the most recent versions of each activity. This list contained 714
entries. However a number turned out to be empty or duplicates. These
reduced the list to 516 activities.

I them matched each item against the repostories in
'http://github.com/sugarlabs'. There were corresponding
repositories for
222 of the 516 activities. All of these repositories (.zip) were
downloaded to the Positivo. One turned out to be empty:
lybniz_graph_plotter.

The 221 repositories were unzipped and an attempt was made to build a
bundle with 'python setup.py dist_xo'. This process failed with
activities which included 'from sugar.activity import activity'.
These
have not yet been ported to GTK3. This reduced the number of
activities
to 106. Each of these activities was launched from the Home View
on the
Positivo. Of these 91 executed as expected. The others failed to
start
for various reasons.


Did you try installing the GTK2 toolkit packages? I would think that 
the GTK2 activities would still run with the toolkit installed.



The details are in the attached spreadsheet - all normal disclaimers
apply. The comment 'help' means I didn't really understand how to
work
the activity.

Some general comments. The availability of Sugar on an LTS version
of a
major distribution is an opportunity to demonstrate that the value of
Sugar is not limited to the XO. Unfortunately, the method to launch
Sugar is not obvious. You must click on your user panel to show the
password entry. Below, there is a 'gear' icon. You must click on
that to
choose Sugar. Then you need to enter your Ubuntu password.

On the first run, you are asked about colors, gender and age. In this
age with every site collecting private information for sale - this
does
not make a good first impression.

Sugar on Ubuntu launches to the (empty) Journal View! Ubuntu itself
provides a built-in set of welcome slides to introduce its new
features.
Sadly, Sugar launches to a brick wall. The user needs to know to
display
the Home View (using F3 or the Frame - F6).

The Sugar install is minimal compared to what we have become used to.
The Home View has 5 activities: Browse, Calculate, Chat, Pippy, and
Write. Installed but not favorites are ImageViewer, Jukebox, Log,
Read,
and Terminal. Presumably users are expected to install additional
activities from the 91 tested above. However, in general, these
bundles
are not available on activities.sugarlabs.org
<http://activities.sugarlabs.org> and require some technical
expertise to install from github.

On a positive note: connection to the internet and to the
schoolserver
was smooth. The Neighborhood View worked as expected. Downloads
from the
school server to the Journal worked as normal. As far as I could
tell,
the working activities showed normal screen coverage.

On Sugar with Ubuntu, you are your Ubuntu user - not olpc. Activities
available to all Sugar users on a laptop are in
/usr/share/sugar/activities. Activities installed by
sugar-install-bundle are in /home/yourusername/Activities and are
only
available to you. With some technical expertise you can copy an
activity
to the /usr/share/sugar/Activities directory to share it with
other users.

Tony

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Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Initial tests of Sugar on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS

[Tony Anderson]

The next step in this process is to upload the working activities to the 
schoolserver and then downloading and installing on an XO-1.5 with the 
13.2.8 build to verify that these activities also work on an XO. This 
can then form a core of activities.


Part of the reduction in numbers from the 714 in ASLO came from deleting 
the GCompris activities. These are available by installation on gnome 
and then using a simple Sugar activity wrapper. Unfortunately 
maintaining these activities separately requires more investment of 
technical resources than are available. The sugar-web-activities were 
not tested and so should increase the number of available activities.


Tony

On Monday, 30 April, 2018 08:18 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
Thanks Tony. This will help a lot as we try to put the finishing 
touches on the new activity portal. Also, it will provide further 
guidance to the student working on GTK2 porting. As far as the Ubuntu 
bug, it is on our radar.


regards.

-walter

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:44 AM Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


On April 27, 2018 I downloaded the ubuntu-18.04-desktop-amd64.iso. I
generated a boot usb drive with dd. The usb stick was used to install
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS alongside Windows 10. Sugar was installed using sudo
apt-get install sucrose.

 From http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities, I scraped a list of
the most recent versions of each activity. This list contained 714
entries. However a number turned out to be empty or duplicates. These
reduced the list to 516 activities.

I them matched each item against the repostories in
'http://github.com/sugarlabs'. There were corresponding
repositories for
222 of the 516 activities. All of these repositories (.zip) were
downloaded to the Positivo. One turned out to be empty:
lybniz_graph_plotter.

The 221 repositories were unzipped and an attempt was made to build a
bundle with 'python setup.py dist_xo'. This process failed with
activities which included 'from sugar.activity import activity'.
These
have not yet been ported to GTK3. This reduced the number of
activities
to 106. Each of these activities was launched from the Home View
on the
Positivo. Of these 91 executed as expected. The others failed to
start
for various reasons.

The details are in the attached spreadsheet - all normal disclaimers
apply. The comment 'help' means I didn't really understand how to
work
the activity.

Some general comments. The availability of Sugar on an LTS version
of a
major distribution is an opportunity to demonstrate that the value of
Sugar is not limited to the XO. Unfortunately, the method to launch
Sugar is not obvious. You must click on your user panel to show the
password entry. Below, there is a 'gear' icon. You must click on
that to
choose Sugar. Then you need to enter your Ubuntu password.

On the first run, you are asked about colors, gender and age. In this
age with every site collecting private information for sale - this
does
not make a good first impression.

Sugar on Ubuntu launches to the (empty) Journal View! Ubuntu itself
provides a built-in set of welcome slides to introduce its new
features.
Sadly, Sugar launches to a brick wall. The user needs to know to
display
the Home View (using F3 or the Frame - F6).

The Sugar install is minimal compared to what we have become used to.
The Home View has 5 activities: Browse, Calculate, Chat, Pippy, and
Write. Installed but not favorites are ImageViewer, Jukebox, Log,
Read,
and Terminal. Presumably users are expected to install additional
activities from the 91 tested above. However, in general, these
bundles
are not available on activities.sugarlabs.org
<http://activities.sugarlabs.org> and require some technical
expertise to install from github.

On a positive note: connection to the internet and to the
schoolserver
was smooth. The Neighborhood View worked as expected. Downloads
from the
school server to the Journal worked as normal. As far as I could
tell,
the working activities showed normal screen coverage.

On Sugar with Ubuntu, you are your Ubuntu user - not olpc. Activities
available to all Sugar users on a laptop are in
/usr/share/sugar/activities. Activities installed by
sugar-install-bundle are in /home/yourusername/Activities and are
only
available to you. With some technical expertise you can copy an
activity
to the /usr/share/sugar/Activities directory to share it with
other users.

Tony

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[Sugar-devel] Initial tests of Sugar on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS

[Tony Anderson]

On April 27, 2018 I downloaded the ubuntu-18.04-desktop-amd64.iso. I 
generated a boot usb drive with dd. The usb stick was used to install 
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS alongside Windows 10. Sugar was installed using sudo 
apt-get install sucrose.


From http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities, I scraped a list of 
the most recent versions of each activity. This list contained 714 
entries. However a number turned out to be empty or duplicates. These 
reduced the list to 516 activities.


I them matched each item against the repostories in 
'http://github.com/sugarlabs'. There were corresponding repositories for 
222 of the 516 activities. All of these repositories (.zip) were 
downloaded to the Positivo. One turned out to be empty: 
lybniz_graph_plotter.


The 221 repositories were unzipped and an attempt was made to build a 
bundle with 'python setup.py dist_xo'. This process failed with 
activities which included 'from sugar.activity import activity'. These 
have not yet been ported to GTK3. This reduced the number of activities 
to 106. Each of these activities was launched from the Home View on the 
Positivo. Of these 91 executed as expected. The others failed to start 
for various reasons.


The details are in the attached spreadsheet - all normal disclaimers 
apply. The comment 'help' means I didn't really understand how to work 
the activity.


Some general comments. The availability of Sugar on an LTS version of a 
major distribution is an opportunity to demonstrate that the value of 
Sugar is not limited to the XO. Unfortunately, the method to launch 
Sugar is not obvious. You must click on your user panel to show the 
password entry. Below, there is a 'gear' icon. You must click on that to 
choose Sugar. Then you need to enter your Ubuntu password.


On the first run, you are asked about colors, gender and age. In this 
age with every site collecting private information for sale - this does 
not make a good first impression.


Sugar on Ubuntu launches to the (empty) Journal View! Ubuntu itself 
provides a built-in set of welcome slides to introduce its new features. 
Sadly, Sugar launches to a brick wall. The user needs to know to display 
the Home View (using F3 or the Frame - F6).


The Sugar install is minimal compared to what we have become used to. 
The Home View has 5 activities: Browse, Calculate, Chat, Pippy, and 
Write. Installed but not favorites are ImageViewer, Jukebox, Log, Read, 
and Terminal. Presumably users are expected to install additional 
activities from the 91 tested above. However, in general, these bundles 
are not available on activities.sugarlabs.org and require some technical 
expertise to install from github.


On a positive note: connection to the internet and to the schoolserver 
was smooth. The Neighborhood View worked as expected. Downloads from the 
school server to the Journal worked as normal. As far as I could tell, 
the working activities showed normal screen coverage.


On Sugar with Ubuntu, you are your Ubuntu user - not olpc. Activities 
available to all Sugar users on a laptop are in 
/usr/share/sugar/activities. Activities installed by 
sugar-install-bundle are in /home/yourusername/Activities and are only 
available to you. With some technical expertise you can copy an activity 
to the /usr/share/sugar/Activities directory to share it with other users.


Tony



activities.ods
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.spreadsheet
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Review Request of GSoC Proposal: Making a Beginner Guide

[Tony Anderson]

Is this a 'beginner' in the community of developers or a beginning user 
of Sugar?


Tony


On Monday, 26 March, 2018 09:09 AM, Pratul Kumar wrote:

Hello,
Thanks for the guidance, reviews and feedbacks.

Kindly help me with the answer to one of the questions of "You and 
Community".


Question: If your project is successfully completed, what will its 
impact be on the Sugar Labs community? Give 3 answers, each 1-3 
paragraphs in length. The first one should be yours. The other two 
should be answers from members of the Sugar Labs community, at least 
one of whom should be a Sugar Labs GSoC mentor. Provide email contact 
information for non-GSoC mentors.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xzn-ub8pBCQuz9-RfltzHqDZqY7uZ2xF77MFP_9fKzw/edit?usp=sharing


Thanks,
Pratul Kumar

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Pratul Kumar 
> wrote:


Hello,

Thanks for providing feedback and guiding me in the right direction.
I have worked on it and tried to add them and make things bit more
refined.


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xzn-ub8pBCQuz9-RfltzHqDZqY7uZ2xF77MFP_9fKzw/edit?usp=sharing



Kindly have a look at it and if there is something which can be
improved, kindly let me know,
I will be more than happy to work on it.

Regards,
Pratul Kumar

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, James Cameron > wrote:

G'day Pratul,

Thanks for the opportunity to comment on your draft proposal.

Your proposal suffers from lack of measurable controls for
risks.  In
general, you've added responses to the risks which are mostly
either
aspirational, hopeful, or procedural.  Some of the responses don't
address the risks.

For reference, here is what I had previously written on these
risks;

http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055030.html



Please do not use HTML for the beginner guide. Instead, please use
Markdown.  Markdown has a wider audience of authors.  HTML
should be
generated automatically.

Please consider better controls for risk #3.  My post on 14th
February
gave some ideas.  Just claiming that you'd like to keep
working on the
project after GSoC ... doesn't seem probable.  It is aspirational.

--
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/




-- 
*

​
Pratul Kumar | S**ophomore LNMIIT** | +91-8107525493*

*GCI Mentor* SugarLabs*, Mentor* & Beta Tester at
*Coursera*,* HKUST University
**Stanford* Scholar Internship,* Mozilla* Club Captain LNMIIT,
*Head of Developers* Group *HackerEarth*
LinkedIn Github





--
*
​
Pratul Kumar | S**ophomore LNMIIT** | +91-8107525493*

*GCI Mentor* SugarLabs*, Mentor* & Beta Tester at
*Coursera*,* HKUST University
**Stanford* Scholar Internship,* Mozilla* Club Captain LNMIIT,
*Head of Developers* Group *HackerEarth*
LinkedIn Github




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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Activity-Team] Request to review GSoC Proposal

[Tony Anderson]

As always, the question is the impact on our users. The traditional 
source of information for users is http://www.sugarlabs.org and 
http://www.laptop.org and, especially the wiki pages. The traditional 
source for activities is http://activities.sugarlabs.org (ASLO). So far 
the effect of gitHub has been to reduce the value of these two sources. 
In many cases the activities on ASLO have been superceded by ones on 
gitHub or other git repository but are not available to our users. The 
documentation of activities on ASLO has never been adequate but now no 
effort will be made to improve it. This continues the trend toward Sugar 
being a playground for the technical elite.


Tony


On Monday, 26 March, 2018 07:05 AM, James Cameron wrote:

My assessment of project impact;

Originally documentation was separate because we had non-coding
developers and tool chains that varied by type of developer.  Now we
use GitHub the tool chains are combined.

With the project as described, documentation will be concentrated in
the source code repository for an activity, reducing ongoing
maintenance.

We have less active Wiki contributors than we ever did, and in the
current threat environment a Wiki requires significant monitoring and
administration; we recently lost some system administrators and gained
new ones; using GitHub allows us to outsource system administration.

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 01:43:01AM +0530, Vipul Gupta wrote:

Hello,

I have submitted the first draft of my GSoC proposal and shared it with edit
access permission on Google GSoC website with Sugar Labs. Please review,
comment and write a review how my proposal would help the community. Even if it
is just one line.

I would really like to work on this project under the activity team and
contribute further on Sugar Labs for a greater good.

If you do not have access to the Google GSoC website for Sugar Labs. Hit me up
on @vipulgupta2048 or reply to this thread. I will promptly reply with google
docs link of my proposal.

Thanking you

Cordially,
Vipul Gupta
[1]Mixster | [2]Github

References:

[1] https://mixstersite.wordpress.com/
[2] https://github.com/vipulgupta2048


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Madagascar efforts of OLPC-FR, recently reported in English

[Tony Anderson]

Thank God, a post about educational use of Sugar! I was very depressed 
reading the list of proposed GSOC activities. Many of the projects 
relate to Musicblocks, a true educational development but which after 
several years of work is still not available to users on ASLO. 
Meanwhile, no GSOC project has followed up on Caryl Bigenhos 
documentation of the TamTam activities or suggestions on use of the 
music keyboard activity.


Not only is there a proposal to continue the effort to move from GTK to 
GTK3, not there is mention of GTK4! In addition, there is now effort to 
port to Python 3. All of these activities may be necessary to avoid 
bitrot, but do not add any educational benefit to the user.


The items mentioned below could be GSOC projects as well as many 
others.  A GSOC project could offer specific parts lists and 
documentation to support use of the XO microphone per Physics on the XO 
(Guzman Trinidad). A GSOC project could update and expand the work of 
Sdenka Z. Salas-Pilco, 'The XO Laptop in the classroom.'


So often GSOC projects are undertaken by participants with no experience 
with Sugar or the XO. I have attempted to teach programming with Turtle 
Blocks (we need to settle on whether the activity is Turtle Blocks or 
Turtle Art to help avoid confusion among Sugar users). Sadly, the 
learners lost their projects because Turtle Blocks does not save the 
project to the Journal.


 The GSOC project does not address the educational opportunity to 
involve learners in the process - it is intended for the linguistic 
elite. Where better to find linguistic skills in a language than in the 
country where it is spoken. There is a tremendous opportunity to involve 
English learners in providing translations for an activity to the local 
language which gets no traction in the Sugar community.


The Browse activity still lacks developer tools. Fortunately the current 
version provides a way to request any url to be downloaded. In teaching 
html and css, the user can show his page by the file:// protocol but 
there is no easy way to upload a page to the school server so the 
learner can share their page with classmates. The WebKit version in 
Browse does not support flexbox, an essential capability for responsive 
design. This means teaching page layout with tables.


A major educational need is the ability of an XO to broadcast slides to 
the other laptops in a classroom. Projectors are very costly - 
particularly if they are able to show a bright display in a classroom. 
There are at least three activities that attempt to address this 
problem. A GSOC project could take this on with help from the new 
standard collabwrapper.


We continue to direct new members in the community to tasks such as 
bug-fixing rather than toward contributions to the educational project. 
There is more to Sugar than compliance to flake or the demands of Debian 
testing.


Tony



On Wednesday, 21 March, 2018 03:22 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Thanks!The

The study is available as PDF
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/15391523.2017.1388200?needAccess=true

Consequences for Sugar Labs development priorities are;

- Record activity is critical for home use, relevant to family
   dynamics; so we must urgently port this to GTK+ 3 in order that it
   remains available,

- Turtle Art activity was not often understood (page 11, "most (use)
   limited to a disorganized set of juxtaposed bricks"), so an embedded
   ramp up or tutorial may be helpful,

- Ruler activity was in lessons; so we must urgently fix whatever is
   stopping it from working in order that it remains available,

- Record activity needs a mirror mode for hairstyling, (page 12),

- an activity for providing a light source, (page 12, page 14),

- an activity focusing on drill and practice of memory may be of use;
   something like the spaced repetition of Mnemosyne, Anki or Memrise.

In case anyone needs a shortened URL, the media article is also
accessible as https://theconversation.com/the-93305



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Proposal] Sugarizer School Box - GSoC '18

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Rishabh Nambiar,

The critical feature of your proposal is to provide a dedicated RPI 
method to make Sugarizer available to a classroom set of XOs via the ad 
hoc networks.
Technical skills at a deployment are minimal so simplicity is vital. 
What is needed is an image which can be copied to an sd chip ready for 
use. Ansible and other tools can be used, of course, to make the image.


Despite Sugar's emphasis on collaboration, almost nothing has been done 
to characterize performance of the ad hoc networks in sustained use such 
as you propose. You will need to make arrangements with an XO deployment 
to test your image in a classroom setting to determine how many XOs can 
be supported using Sugarizer concurrently with acceptable response.


Does it matter if all the XOs are connected to the same network, e.g. Ad 
hoc 6? Would it be better to distribute the laptops across the three 
networks? How do the laptops connect to the Sugarizer server?


You may need to have a Sugarizer icon which can be joined by the XOs, 
emulating the current collaboration mechanism. The current versions of 
Sugar show the user his own url on the ad hoc network but not the url of 
the server. It may be possible to give the server a fixed url which 
could be accessed from the Browse activity. Currently the links in the 
Browse are given by a web page stored in /home/olpc/.library_pages on 
the XO. Changing that would require each XO to be updated. 
Alternatively, perhaps each user could be instructed to use 
http://192.168.1.1 (i.e. the url of the server) and then to make that 
url the initial page for Browse. This will require simple and clear 
instructions which the teacher can provide to the students.


Most GSOC projects attempt too much and so end up only partially 
complete. This project should be mentored by Lionel Laske or a colleague 
to ensure that it can be completed and the result made available to the 
community. This is an important initiative. Currently in Rwanda there 
are more that 50,000 students with access to XOs but no access to a 
schoolserver or to the internet.


Tony

On Thursday, 15 March, 2018 04:14 PM, Rishabh Nambiar wrote:

Hi everyone!
I'm Rishabh Nambiar and I've introduced myself to @sugar-devel in 
February:

http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055078.html

I've been working on my proposal for a while and I'd like to share it 
everyone.

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Rishabhnambia
Project: Sugarizer School Box

It would be great if I could get some feedback and pointers for 
improvements.
This is only a draft and your input will be really important for my 
final proposal!


Thank you!
Rishabh Nambiar.







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Re: [Sugar-devel] Impact of the Sugarizer School Box | Rishabh Nambiar |

[Tony Anderson]

This is exactly how the xsce server works so you may get valuable help 
from that community (xsce or iiab).


A continuing issue is performance of the server in a classroom or 
school. One metric is the number of simultaneous connections the device 
can support (a classroom of 40-60 is not uncommon). Response time to 
requests to the server can be limited by the size of memory, the speed 
of access to the sd card, or the processor speed. I would be very 
interested in the methodology you propose since that process would apply 
equally to the schoolserver.


One issue is to characterize the workload - how often does a user 
request a transaction from the server, what is the time between requests 
(when the user is reading the response to the previous request), how 
much processing is required for a request (e.g. a text search), how much 
information is required to satisfy a request (e.g. size of file 
download). So far as I know no one has attempted this characterization 
for a classroom. This load could be different for Sugarizer than for 
Sugar, but the effort would be valuable in any case).


Tony

On Friday, 02 March, 2018 11:16 PM, Rishabh Nambiar wrote:


Hi everyone,
I had a quick chat with Michaël about moving forward with this GSoC 
project where he mentioned that the impact of the project should be 
discussed with the community:



_http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055078.html_

_http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055079.html_


*Impact of the Sugarizer School Box*

An instructor walks into a classroom, equipped with a Raspberry Pi 3 
or Zero W with a pre-installed version of the proposed Sugarizer 
School Box distribution that Sugar Labs will be working on.
He/she simply connects the Pi to a power supply and instantly, a local 
WiFi network is set up, a Sugarizer server session starts 
automatically and they’re ready to go!


Students can log in to the WiFi AP made by the Pi and visit 
sugarizer.org (any other fixed url) on their local 
tablets/laptops/phones. So any computer connected to this WiFi can use 
the Sugarizer client and any tablet/phone with Sugarizer apps will 
benefit from the collaboration and backup features on the server. All 
of these student devices will be served by the Pi Wifi AP.



  *Issues*


Processing Power

We’ll have to see how the Pi’s can cope with the load of serving 
multiple students along with the overhead of running a browser session 
for a client and the connected display.
I have a Raspberry Pi B+ and a Pi Zero W at my disposal that I can use 
to test this so I’ll post the results of combining sugarizer-server 
and a WiFi AP soon. It should do the job as we will not be having too 
many students on one Pi.



Network Limitations

It's a straightforward process to set up a local AP for the Pi with 
the sugarizer-server running but if there is a need for Internet 
connectivity, then we'll have to set up an Ethernet bridge to make 
this possible which is also not very complicated.


*UX*

The setup process in a classroom should ideally just be connecting the 
Pi to a power supply.
Minor UX features like an auto-redirect to sugarizer.org after 
connecting to the WiFi AP can be implemented.



*If anyone from the community has any opinions or concerns about how 
any part of the School Box experience should be, then that’d be awesome.*


Regards,
Rishabh Nambiar.




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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Journal: extend click selection in a range via shift key press

[Tony Anderson]

The original goal of the Sugar HIG was to move away from the desktop 
model and to make most functions available by clicking on icons. The Journal
now requires nearly every action to be made by selection from a menu 
which is longer than most 'file' menus. First, a click on the icon 
should resume the activity whose icon is shown without any need to deal 
with a palette. Second, a palette should be toggled by a right-click as 
in a context menu. It should stay open until either the cursor is 
clicked off the menu or an option is clicked. Currently a palette 
disappears if you move the cursor away for a microsecond making moving 
from the icon to the cursor require very steady movement - something 
that is diificul on an XO, especially for a young child.


Tony

On Thursday, 01 March, 2018 09:53 AM, Rahul Bothra wrote:

Greetings,

Current feature in journal selection(of checkboxes)
 - 'click' toggles the checkbox
 - 'ctrl + click' produces no change
 - 'shift+click` produces no change

Proposed feature:
 - 'click' toggles the checkbox
 - 'ctrl + click` toggles the checkbox
 - 'shift + click` will select the entire range of checkboxes between 
currently clicked checkbox and the previous checkbox clicked


This proposed feature is identical to list of mails in gmail.
For reference: https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/issues/786

This could be an improvement to the Multple selection feature
Kindly give your opinion


Thanking you

Rahul Bothra
@Pro-Panda


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Re: [Sugar-devel] critical vs pinned repositories, was New pull request reviewers; Rahul and Yash

[Tony Anderson]

This thread illustrates the crazy situation we have put ourselves in. 
Now we don't use github because we have too many repositories.


The simple solution is to separate repositories into a Sugar collection 
and an Activity collection. The use of fructose (and honey,...) should 
be deprecated. The terms have no meaning and are confusing. Can you 
imagine the user launching the chat-fructose.activity (not to mention 
translating 'fructose' to 100+ languages). Searching 300+ activities is 
not necessary if they are sorted alphabetically (abacus.activity, 
write.activity) and would be made easier if the activity names in ASLO 
matched the repostory names.


The repositories in Sugar should be ones required for a build. A build 
requires co-ordinated use of multiple repositories. Activities should be 
independent of each other and of Sugar builds. The maker of a build 
selects the activities to include in the build from those released.


Browse illustrates the problem with using common dependencies. Now it is 
critical to use the Browse version which works with the right build. 
This is contrary to the spirit of activities - that Sugar exists to 
provide the execution environment for activities. Meanwhile, the 
functionality of Browse becomes increasingly impaired. For example, 
Browse cannot download or resume html pages. It does not have 
configuration capabilities. A 404 error triggers a google search even 
when the connection is to a school server. It is not able to display 
console.log statements in javascript. It is not able to show the source 
code of a web page. It is not capable of saving a web page in the 
Journal (it saves urls of open tabs which is normally useless and 
consumes time discovering that the XO is not online).


Meanwhile, moving development support to github is making it more 
difficult for users to modify their own installation. First, we chose 
'view source' which suggests 'look but don't touch'. Then we wrapped 
Python programming in pippy where a user can create an activity by pippy 
magic. This, of course, hides the process from the user -- similar to 
the effect of using Dreamweaver to create html/css. Now we have taken 
development support away from the user who does not have ready internet 
access (i.e. more than half our users).


Tomorrow I am scheduled to give a class to secondary school students on 
programming. The students are already capable of using the Terminal 
activity to navigate and manage the XO file system. Generally I 
encourage them to use the Documents folder since it is visible in the 
Journal activity.


I plan to start with the Hello World activity. The repository for this 
activity is hello-world-fork-master - this for the activity intended to 
illustrate the simplest possible activity!!! To display 'Hello World!' 
on the screen takes 42 lines of python code. The hello-world-fork-master 
repository is a conversion of the original to gtk3 but continues to be 
version 6!


I have moved the toolbar related code to a separate file - toolbar.py. 
This file is imported into activity.py. This reduces the number of lines 
from 42 to 10. This is version 7.


More importantly, this activity is a useful template for user-developed 
activities. Al Sweigart has written three books on Python programming 
for children and has given them a Creative Commons license!  My plan for 
the class is to show the students how to make Al Sweigart's examples 
into Sugar activities by copying the hello-world.activity to 
guessing-game.activity and updating activity.info in the new activity. 
Then the students can copy and paste their code into activity.py.


None of the programs in the Al Sweigart's first two books use GTK (only 
print and raw_input). Naturally this is a problem for a Sugar activity 
which displays print statements in the log and requires gtk to display 
text on the screen. However, this is a learning opportunity for the 
students.


I truly wish some of this community effort and ingenuity were applied to 
making Sugar a better educational environment, giving our users the 
opportunity to explore and create rather than restricting it to elite 
developers.


Tony




On Wednesday, 28 February, 2018 08:34 AM, Walter Bender wrote:



On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 10:02 PM, James Cameron > wrote:


My list of critical repositories was on a thread focused on Sugar
desktop and Python activity code review.  It is less relevant for
Sugar Labs as a whole.

The mismatch at heart is GitHub's scalability of features for large
open source projects with many repositories.  We have 292 at the
moment.  Most are orphaned or abandoned.  Using search is critical.

Once a developer is familiar with our repository layout, the problem
disappears for them.  Does our ramp-up documentation explain well
enough?  I don't think I've heard many "where is X?" questions.

We could waste a lot of time moving 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Migration from bugs.sugarlabs.org to Github

[Tony Anderson]

With the help of Google, I was able to find the 0.112 page. Note that 
www.sugarlabs.org has a link 'get sugar'; however, this link mentions 
only 0.110.
Debian supports 0.112 with Buster, a version in testing. Ubuntu is 
waiting for the release of Buster. Fedora 28 is scheduled for release in 
May 2018.


I was unable to find a reference to a live build on the 0.112 page.

The only reference to the XO is:


 "Fedora 18 on OLPC XO

For OLPC XO laptops, using OLPC OS 13.x (Fedora 18), use the OLPC 
packages, and update only the Sugar packages to 0.112.olpc.x, like this:


sudo yum update sugar*
sudo service olpc-dm restart"


I won't quibble about the one command. However, this process requires 
that the XO be connected to the internet.


It is possible to install a version of Yum on the XO that supports a 
downloadonly option. This option downloads and shows the rpms


required by the update. With an unreliable internet connection with 
download speed of 56kb, installing 0.112 on multiple


machines requires a method to install by local files.


However all of this begs the question, why is this so damn difficult?


A command line tool *olpcosbuild* with three arguments: model, version, 
and activities could generate an installable image (.zd and .zip) for 
the selected model.


Models are XO1, XO1SD, XO1.5, XO1.75, XO4. Versions are 0.112 or latest. 
The third argument names a text file in the local directory which lists 
the activities to be installed, e.g.



Browse 157.2

Record latest

TurtleBlocks latest


For Debian, a similar command line tool *debianbuild* with two 
arguments: version and activities. This would produce a debian package 
installable on any standard computer which supports dpkg. Options could 
be provided for --stretch, --buster, --raspbian.



With these tools, we could install and test or use a new version of 
Sugar at any time without any knowledge of GitHub, pull requests and the 
like. Users could report issues which developers could reliably and 
conveniently reproduce.


Tony

On Saturday, 16 December, 2017 11:04 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Yes, you can extract the source code for the 0.110 release and apply fixes, but 
nobody seems to want to do that, which is no surprise as 0.112 is the stable 
release now.  Many bugs were fixed.

Yes, Sugar was released as 0.112.  At the same time a Sugar Live Build was 
released, which can be booted or installed on any standard PC or laptop.

Users with OLPC OS 13.2.8 can install Sugar 0.112 very easily; one command.

Users with OLPC OS 16.0.4 can install Sugar 0.112 very easily; with a GUI or 
two commands.

All this is on the Wiki page for 0.112.

Fedora SoaS was stabilised without including Sugar 0.112, and the next version 
of SoaS will likely have it.  Our hard working Fedora packagers are busy and 
sometimes miss announcements.

Next versions of Debian, Ubuntu and Fedora will also have Sugar 0.112, if the 
developers of those projects continue in the way they have before.

Sugar 0.112 is indeed a release, and as I said above, is available for users 
and integrators, not just developers.

No, there is nobody looking at providing Fedora 27 for the XO.  Such an effort 
would need huge resources.

I've complained that ASLO does not have maintainers; yes, and we have called 
for maintainers in the most recent GSOC, and gave maintenance as an option, but 
the outcome was to engineer yet another version of ASLO.  It is not released.

I've also complained that activities do not have maintainers; and that is a 
problem of greater severity.  More and more activities no longer work.  I'm 
hard pressed to keep even the core set of activities tested and working.  A 
thankless task.

I think we do understand that potential contributors are not Sugar users.  It 
is very evidence as they speak of their plans or make pull requests.

We lack testers because nobody has the resources to test with.  We have 
provided a release, in October, and it is complete and stable.  Yet we have no 
testers testing it.

No, I cannot countenance making an OLPC OS release that is not tested.

So I take it you have refused Sugar 0.112 stable.  That's good to know, and it 
confirms what I had already suspected; there are no people interested in Sugar 
0.112 stable or the Sugar Live Build, and so there are almost no people who 
need a new OLPC OS release with Sugar 0.112 in it.  All our major customers of 
OLPC OS make their own builds, and these automatically include Sugar 0.112.  
I'll change my opinion if I see good evidence of testing.

On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 08:57:36AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:

What I mean by version control in this context is that git can extract the
source code matching the 0.110 release. This would enable bugs reported against
0.110 to be reproduced and corrections applicable to 0.110 to be made and
released immediately. The subject of this thread: Migration from
bugs.sugarlabs.org to Github was responded to appropriately. What