Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:54:43 -0500, Leonidas Jones wrote: But then, how would a novice user even know that about:config even exists, if not for the advice of a knowledgeable user, or reading a detailed Knowledge Base article? Seems to me its not exactly the kind of thing one just stumbles upin accidentally. You've never heard of google? Phil -- Philip Chee phi...@aleytys.pc.my, philip.c...@gmail.com http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief, oh Night, and so be good for us to pass. [ ]Consult a real expert - Call your mother! * TagZilla 0.066.6 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:51:38 -0800, Rufus n...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I guess this doesn't surprise me. Just one more example of the interface not being in step with the code...now I can't trust what I see in about:config or what it actually does either? Thanks. But hasn't that always been the case, stretching back into netscape? I believe that there are some vestigial files as well... jim And that's why I'm not a fan of fiddling with about:config...user input/control should be provided in user Preference panels - it's one thing if I come here and get info on a workaround from a knowledgeable individual, in advance of a forthcoming fix, but as a general, generic user I should never even have to think about about:config. Just trying to get people to think before/when they code. -- - Rufus Why be critical of the coding and structure? The price is right. :-) Observationally, i could make a case for why both things i mentioned are as they are. A quick character string search in the profile subdirectory tree branch show about 27 files (after deducting email containers and a couple other likely candidates) containing the word Netscape. So what? I don't care why, it most likely has to do with program dependencies. The first one i looked at was install.rdf and referenced netscape navigator. Until Seamonkey 2.0, the bookmarks.html file was headed with: !DOCTYPE NETSCAPE-Bookmark-file-1 !-- This is an automatically generated file. It will be read and overwritten. DO NOT EDIT! -- And guess what? If you export bookmarks from Seamonkey 2.0.1, the resulting file *still is* headed that way. And so what? Some program probably expects to see that, and if the export routine was rewritten for 2.0, whoever wrote it found the header to be irrelevant -- it could say this file fresh from Alpha Centauri if that was what some subroutine expected to see OR maybe they just saw no reason to change it. Not changing it did not hurt anyone. Now that verbose explanation was about vestigial (or dependent, internally or externally) parts within files, but i think you can extrapolate that to the other things mentioned. Use Occam's razor. Now, I am stumped on transferring over 500 bookmarks to a fresh installation of 2.0.1 from another in-network installation of 2.0.1. On that, i need help and it may or may not exceed 'click this button'. jim ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Philip Chee wrote: On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:54:43 -0500, Leonidas Jones wrote: But then, how would a novice user even know that about:config even exists, if not for the advice of a knowledgeable user, or reading a detailed Knowledge Base article? Seems to me its not exactly the kind of thing one just stumbles upin accidentally. You've never heard of google? Phil Certainly, but I would expect that would lead them to an article explaining its use. Lee ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Philip Chee wrote: On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:54:43 -0500, Leonidas Jones wrote: But then, how would a novice user even know that about:config even exists, if not for the advice of a knowledgeable user, or reading a detailed Knowledge Base article? Seems to me its not exactly the kind of thing one just stumbles upin accidentally. You've never heard of google? Which leads you to the primary sources he mentioned. So why mention google? -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: jim wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:15:20 -0800, Rufus n...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: [JS in MailNews] As I am sure you know, but for those who do not, in about:config: javascript.allow.mailnews Set to true. That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 HTH Jens I guess this doesn't surprise me. Just one more example of the interface not being in step with the code...now I can't trust what I see in about:config or what it actually does either? Thanks. But hasn't that always been the case, stretching back into netscape? I believe that there are some vestigial files as well... jim And that's why I'm not a fan of fiddling with about:config...user input/control should be provided in user Preference panels - it's one thing if I come here and get info on a workaround from a knowledgeable individual, in advance of a forthcoming fix, but as a general, generic user I should never even have to think about about:config. And someone will tell you you can use voodoo to add config things to your custom preferences, which I personally think is even less obvious. But the root issue is that stuff should work and the tricks should be documented elsewhere than the source or some developer's notes. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Philip Chee wrote: On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:54:43 -0500, Leonidas Jones wrote: But then, how would a novice user even know that about:config even exists, if not for the advice of a knowledgeable user, or reading a detailed Knowledge Base article? Seems to me its not exactly the kind of thing one just stumbles upin accidentally. You've never heard of google? Phil I wouldn't necessarily be recommending Google. The head of Google is so mad at the head of Googles' recent statement that privacy and security is of little concern to Google, That he has recommended that anyone that uses Mozilla Not to use Google and use Bing instead. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:54:00 -0500, Leonidas Jones wrote: Philip Chee wrote: On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:54:43 -0500, Leonidas Jones wrote: But then, how would a novice user even know that about:config even exists, if not for the advice of a knowledgeable user, or reading a detailed Knowledge Base article? Seems to me its not exactly the kind of thing one just stumbles upin accidentally. You've never heard of google? Phil Certainly, but I would expect that would lead them to an article explaining its use. Experience from the Firefox support people suggests that naif users are more likely going to find a link to a badly written article that says do this to get that without explaining the wherefores, mostly because the author of that blog or forum post just copied that information from somewhere else without understanding it either. Phil -- Philip Chee phi...@aleytys.pc.my, philip.c...@gmail.com http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief, oh Night, and so be good for us to pass. [ ]Mary had a little lamb. The doctor was surprised. * TagZilla 0.066.6 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 10-01-08 3:40 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Phillip Jones schrieb: The head of Google is so mad at the head of Googles' recent statement that privacy and security is of little concern to Google, That he has recommended that anyone that uses Mozilla Not to use Google and use Bing instead. Not sure what the head of Google has against the head of Google, but if you mean the statement from Asa, he's not a head of anything, just a Mozilla employee, and he stated his personal opinion. I meant the head of Mozilla was so mad at the head of Google ... It was in cNet, ZDnet, and Computerworld that Mozilla s/Mozilla/Asa (a.k.a. Mozilla Worker) was recommending the use of Bing over Google ...for those concerned about privacy. as the result of the head of Google saying in speech s/speech/interview with CNBC he gave, that securityand privacy was of little concern to Google. He said nothing about security. What he said was If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. Then went on to warn users that all info stored by Google could be made available to the authorities under the US Patriot Act. Sorry for my bad proofreading They all had Asa the head of Mozilla. No, they didn't. Asa is not. A quick search for cnet mozilla google asa, and I get http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10413473-56.html, which states that Asa is Director of Community Development. See, this is why I bug you (and everyone else) about adding links to your references, so people can see how much of your claims are your own misinterpretation. To bring it back to Phillip Chee's point, he meant that novice users often find out about about:config through search engine results, whether that be Google or any other search engine. -- Chris Ilias http://ilias.ca List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia Keeper of the Knowledge Base: https://support.mozilla.com/kb/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Bill Davidsen wrote: Rufus wrote: jim wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:15:20 -0800, Rufus n...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: [JS in MailNews] As I am sure you know, but for those who do not, in about:config: javascript.allow.mailnews Set to true. That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 HTH Jens I guess this doesn't surprise me. Just one more example of the interface not being in step with the code...now I can't trust what I see in about:config or what it actually does either? Thanks. But hasn't that always been the case, stretching back into netscape? I believe that there are some vestigial files as well... jim And that's why I'm not a fan of fiddling with about:config...user input/control should be provided in user Preference panels - it's one thing if I come here and get info on a workaround from a knowledgeable individual, in advance of a forthcoming fix, but as a general, generic user I should never even have to think about about:config. And someone will tell you you can use voodoo to add config things to your custom preferences, which I personally think is even less obvious. But the root issue is that stuff should work and the tricks should be documented elsewhere than the source or some developer's notes. Agreed. I don't mind learning to work around by visiting a forum, doing a Google search, or consulting a knowledge base - but I do mind that workaround not being of a temporary nature...a VERY temporary nature. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
jim wrote: On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:51:38 -0800, Rufus n...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I guess this doesn't surprise me. Just one more example of the interface not being in step with the code...now I can't trust what I see in about:config or what it actually does either? Thanks. But hasn't that always been the case, stretching back into netscape? I believe that there are some vestigial files as well... jim And that's why I'm not a fan of fiddling with about:config...user input/control should be provided in user Preference panels - it's one thing if I come here and get info on a workaround from a knowledgeable individual, in advance of a forthcoming fix, but as a general, generic user I should never even have to think about about:config. Just trying to get people to think before/when they code. -- - Rufus Why be critical of the coding and structure? The price is right. :-) Observationally, i could make a case for why both things i mentioned are as they are. A quick character string search in the profile subdirectory tree branch show about 27 files (after deducting email containers and a couple other likely candidates) containing the word Netscape. So what? I don't care why, it most likely has to do with program dependencies. The first one i looked at was install.rdf and referenced netscape navigator. Until Seamonkey 2.0, the bookmarks.html file was headed with: !DOCTYPE NETSCAPE-Bookmark-file-1 !-- This is an automatically generated file. It will be read and overwritten. DO NOT EDIT! -- And guess what? If you export bookmarks from Seamonkey 2.0.1, the resulting file *still is* headed that way. And so what? Some program probably expects to see that, and if the export routine was rewritten for 2.0, whoever wrote it found the header to be irrelevant -- it could say this file fresh from Alpha Centauri if that was what some subroutine expected to see OR maybe they just saw no reason to change it. Not changing it did not hurt anyone. Now that verbose explanation was about vestigial (or dependent, internally or externally) parts within files, but i think you can extrapolate that to the other things mentioned. Use Occam's razor. Now, I am stumped on transferring over 500 bookmarks to a fresh installation of 2.0.1 from another in-network installation of 2.0.1. On that, i need help and it may or may not exceed 'click this button'. jim ...ok...now I know just what kind of spaghetti you're dealing with... -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:36:32 -0500, jim j...@earthlink.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:03:31 -0800, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net.invalid in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: snip but having the ability to quickly change path/user enmass in prefs.js is what enables me to easily transport an entire .mozilla folder to another machine have it working in a matter of minutes. Machine 1: WIn XP SP2 Seamonkey 2.01 Machine 2: WIn XP SP2 Seamonkey 2.01 I am trying to make Machine 2 have the same bookmarks and bookmarks toolbar as Machine 1. The following 1,2,3 worked fine with FF: 1. close app. 2. Locate Machine 1's places.sqlite and copy to same directory on Machine 2. 3. Reopen app on Machine 2. It does not seem to work with Seamonkey, which *appears* to grab the last backup copy of places.sqlite on Machine 2 and use that. (that is, when replaced with machine 1's Seamonkey's places.sqlite. So my question is just which parameter(s) in prefs.js do you change? jim Basically, I am starting over so I am reposting the original message. So far, Sea Monkey 2.0.1 has defeated me in this. The idea is to clone 2.01 form machine 1 (aka M1)to Machine 2 (aka M2) and the particulars of my last failures follow: 1. Uninstalled SM 2.0.1 from M2. 2. Reinstalled SM 2.0;.1 on M2 without launching after install complete. Copied entire SM profile (about 34 subdirectories) from DS in M1 to M2) 3. Prepped prefs.js by doing mass change of M1 name (jim) to M2 name (PC1) (operation detail -- Qedit reported 11 changes made, EXCEPT I did not change 2 entries specifically for IRC in Prefs.js where jim is the user name and those CMD entries did not refer to DS location) 4. Replaced places.sqlite on m2 with m1 copy. 5. started SM2 on M2. 6. Result of intended operation -- failure PLUS. The PLUS was that not only did I have no bookmarks transferred *but* the personal toolbar was also locked *and* that the personal toolbar was now locked to drag drop items from the Navigation window. (The profile copy was successful since the Adblock icon now appeared on Personal toolbar -- and was operable -- of M2 browser and all subfolders, filters and mail were present and operable in M2 SM email client.) End initial attempt at elegant symphony. :-) (it should have worked) Enter Plan B: 1. Export bookmarks from M1 to file (bookmarks.html) on shared folder on M1. 2. Import bookmarks to M2 (using manage bookmarks) 3. For that session, there were 536 objects in bookmark manager and bookmarks did exist from toolbar call of bookmarks but not on Personal Toolbar. 4. I unset and reset bookmarks toolbar as personal toolbar. Result: Personal toolbar populated with proper bookmarks and folders. BUT When i closed and reopened SM on M2, all bookmarks had disappeared. (I did Plan A and Plan B complete operations several times) Any ideas? jim ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:15:20 -0800, Rufus n...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: [JS in MailNews] As I am sure you know, but for those who do not, in about:config: javascript.allow.mailnews Set to true. That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 HTH Jens I guess this doesn't surprise me. Just one more example of the interface not being in step with the code...now I can't trust what I see in about:config or what it actually does either? Thanks. But hasn't that always been the case, stretching back into netscape? I believe that there are some vestigial files as well... jim ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
jim wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:15:20 -0800, Rufus n...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: [JS in MailNews] As I am sure you know, but for those who do not, in about:config: javascript.allow.mailnews Set to true. That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 HTH Jens I guess this doesn't surprise me. Just one more example of the interface not being in step with the code...now I can't trust what I see in about:config or what it actually does either? Thanks. But hasn't that always been the case, stretching back into netscape? I believe that there are some vestigial files as well... jim And that's why I'm not a fan of fiddling with about:config...user input/control should be provided in user Preference panels - it's one thing if I come here and get info on a workaround from a knowledgeable individual, in advance of a forthcoming fix, but as a general, generic user I should never even have to think about about:config. Just trying to get people to think before/when they code. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: jim wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:15:20 -0800, Rufus n...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: [JS in MailNews] As I am sure you know, but for those who do not, in about:config: javascript.allow.mailnews Set to true. That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 HTH Jens I guess this doesn't surprise me. Just one more example of the interface not being in step with the code...now I can't trust what I see in about:config or what it actually does either? Thanks. But hasn't that always been the case, stretching back into netscape? I believe that there are some vestigial files as well... jim And that's why I'm not a fan of fiddling with about:config...user input/control should be provided in user Preference panels - it's one thing if I come here and get info on a workaround from a knowledgeable individual, in advance of a forthcoming fix, but as a general, generic user I should never even have to think about about:config. Just trying to get people to think before/when they code. But then, how would a novice user even know that about:config even exists, if not for the advice of a knowledgeable user, or reading a detailed Knowledge Base article? Seems to me its not exactly the kind of thing one just stumbles upin accidentally. Lee ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: jim wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:15:20 -0800, Rufus n...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: [JS in MailNews] As I am sure you know, but for those who do not, in about:config: javascript.allow.mailnews Set to true. That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 HTH Jens I guess this doesn't surprise me. Just one more example of the interface not being in step with the code...now I can't trust what I see in about:config or what it actually does either? Thanks. But hasn't that always been the case, stretching back into netscape? I believe that there are some vestigial files as well... jim And that's why I'm not a fan of fiddling with about:config...user input/control should be provided in user Preference panels - it's one thing if I come here and get info on a workaround from a knowledgeable individual, in advance of a forthcoming fix, but as a general, generic user I should never even have to think about about:config. Just trying to get people to think before/when they code. But then, how would a novice user even know that about:config even exists, if not for the advice of a knowledgeable user, or reading a detailed Knowledge Base article? Seems to me its not exactly the kind of thing one just stumbles upin accidentally. Lee That's my point, exactly. If the code works he should even have to know. And if he has a problem he can come to a forum and ask. My wish/hope is that the code works and nobody has a problem - I know that can't/won't happen 100%, but I'd sure like to see 90% or better in a stable release. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:03:31 -0800, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net.invalid in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: snip but having the ability to quickly change path/user enmass in prefs.js is what enables me to easily transport an entire .mozilla folder to another machine have it working in a matter of minutes. Machine 1: WIn XP SP2 Seamonkey 2.01 Machine 2: WIn XP SP2 Seamonkey 2.01 I am trying to make Machine 2 have the same bookmarks and bookmarks toolbar as Machine 1. The following 1,2,3 worked fine with FF: 1. close app. 2. Locate Machine 1's places.sqlite and copy to same directory on Machine 2. 3. Reopen app on Machine 2. It does not seem to work with Seamonkey, which *appears* to grab the last backup copy of places.sqlite on Machine 2 and use that. (that is, when replaced with machine 1's Seamonkey's places.sqlite. So my question is just which parameter(s) in prefs.js do you change? jim ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/31/2009 09:36 AM, jim wrote: On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:03:31 -0800, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net.invalid in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: snip but having the ability to quickly change path/user enmass in prefs.js is what enables me to easily transport an entire .mozilla folder to another machine have it working in a matter of minutes. Machine 1: WIn XP SP2 Seamonkey 2.01 Machine 2: WIn XP SP2 Seamonkey 2.01 I am trying to make Machine 2 have the same bookmarks and bookmarks toolbar as Machine 1. The following 1,2,3 worked fine with FF: 1. close app. 2. Locate Machine 1's places.sqlite and copy to same directory on Machine 2. 3. Reopen app on Machine 2. It does not seem to work with Seamonkey, which *appears* to grab the last backup copy of places.sqlite on Machine 2 and use that. (that is, when replaced with machine 1's Seamonkey's places.sqlite. So my question is just which parameter(s) in prefs.js do you change? jim I copy the entire mozilla folder over to machine 2. I then open the prefs.js in the profiles and modify all references of the machine 1 to match. For example if machine 1 user is named GGxG in prefs.js: C:\\Documents and Settings\\Jim\\Application Data\\Mozilla\\Profiles\\default\\ But machine 2's user is named Bill, I just do a mass search replace on Jim and change to Bill, so that the result is: C:\\Documents and Settings\\Bill\\Application Data\\Mozilla\\Profiles\\default\\ Save that's it. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/31/2009 01:33 PM, NoOp wrote: ... match. For example if machine 1 user is named GGxG in prefs.js: Sorry, should be is named Bill in prefs.js C:\\Documents and Settings\\Jim\\Application Data\\Mozilla\\Profiles\\default\\ But machine 2's user is named Bill, I just do a mass search replace on Jim and change to Bill, so that the result is: C:\\Documents and Settings\\Bill\\Application Data\\Mozilla\\Profiles\\default\\ Save that's it. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/31/2009 01:35 PM, NoOp wrote: On 12/31/2009 01:33 PM, NoOp wrote: ... match. For example if machine 1 user is named GGxG in prefs.js: Sorry, should be is named Bill in prefs.js Argh... anyway you get the picture. C:\\Documents and Settings\\Jim\\Application Data\\Mozilla\\Profiles\\default\\ But machine 2's user is named Bill, I just do a mass search replace on Jim and change to Bill, so that the result is: C:\\Documents and Settings\\Bill\\Application Data\\Mozilla\\Profiles\\default\\ Save that's it. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:36:21 -0800, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net.invalid in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: On 12/31/2009 01:35 PM, NoOp wrote: On 12/31/2009 01:33 PM, NoOp wrote: ... match. For example if machine 1 user is named GGxG in prefs.js: Sorry, should be is named Bill in prefs.js Argh... anyway you get the picture. C:\\Documents and Settings\\Jim\\Application Data\\Mozilla\\Profiles\\default\\ But machine 2's user is named Bill, I just do a mass search replace on Jim and change to Bill, so that the result is: C:\\Documents and Settings\\Bill\\Application Data\\Mozilla\\Profiles\\default\\ Save that's it. LOL! Yes, I get the picture. Thanks. Happy New year, jim ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:20:42 +0100, Robert Kaiser wrote: On the other hand, it's not that broadly spread knowledge so probably pretty advanded anyhow. And about:config is already hidden, you only get it by entering it manually and acknowleding a warning (though people didn't understand the warning wanting to be somewhat funny). In the en-GB language pack, the warning says Here be dragons. As I said elsewhere, obviously in Britain, dragons are considered more dangerous than lawyers. Phil -- Philip Chee phi...@aleytys.pc.my, philip.c...@gmail.com http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief, oh Night, and so be good for us to pass. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
MCBastos wrote: Interviewed by CNN on 29/12/2009 18:16, Robert Kaiser told the world: Rufus schrieb: ...maybe just Toolbar Items? Or Personal Toolbar Items? What I have thought about is Personal Bookmark Items, which is about as long as the current one and goes better in line with the current name of the toolbar, though still pointing to bookmarks. Maybe even just Personal Bookmarks, but that could be too little precise. I have to disagree. Generally speaking, ALL bookmarks are personal inasmuch as they are a personal customization, and the ones in the toolbar aren't any more personal than the other ones. Sorry, you're forgetting that some programs (including one that shall remain nameless) come with a built-in set of bookmarks (favorites), and those cannot realistically be called personal. I've been upgrading my installations of Netscape, Mozilla, and SeaMonkey for so long that I've forgotten whether our programs come with any built-in bookmarks. For me, the confusing bit here is items, which strikes me as meaningless clutter. In toolbar items I understand the necessity, but in bookmark items it looks like what the Korean grammarians call a count word. You see, they don't normally mark their nouns for number, but if you want to say something like two books you say two volume of book, just as we say two pieces of advice instead of two advices. Anyway, I find Personal Toolbar Items perfectly acceptable, and Personal Bookmarks perfectly acceptable as well. If you said Bookmark Toolbar Items, I would understand it as items on the bookmark toolbar, which makes sense. I don't see how to make sense of Toolbar Bookmark Items. What about something like Quick Bookmarks? That's fairly descriptive -- they are bookmarks, but they are easier to access (and therefore quicker) because they are in a toolbar. To me that would suggest speed/ease of creation, not of access. But YMMV. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:50:38 +1100, Daniel d...@albury.nospam.net.au in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I would not tell the elderly lady across the street to open prefs.js in her favorite editor (as if she had one or knew what it was), ...but she *IS* part of the masses, so she is exactly whom you *ARE* advocating to fiddle with prefs.js! You totally missed the point of my saying us masses. You feel that there is no striation in the masses -- only an elite and a proletariat. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Leonidas Jones schrieb: I suspect its a labeling mismatch, probably due to the difference in naming between SM and FF. In SM it has always been the Personal Toolbar, going back to Moz Suite days, in FF, its been the Bookmarks toolbar as long as I can remember. Yes, it's probably connected to that one. And I have, since my very early Netcape days, always thought as Personal Toolbar as a very bad name, esp. as it just contained bookmark items all the way until we introduced customization - now it can contain anything, and all the main toolbars are personal in some way... I think that we should probably rename that bar some time, though I'm not 100% sure yet of what the better name would be. I fully agree though that having both Bookmarks and Bookmarks Toolbar Items in the customization is probably easy to confuse and we could think about finding a better name for the latter in a further version, e.g. 2.1 (not that we cannot change any strings in 2.0.x for localization reasons). Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus schrieb: Oh - and with 2.0.1, the previous grayed out empty items in my Bookmarks list under 2.0 went away. We fixed that Mac-specific bug in the update, yes. I think we even mentioned that in the release notes. Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus schrieb: ...shame on Firefox, then. Why? I could see calling it Toolbar Bookmark Items, though. That would be wrong grammar. They are items in the toolbar that represent bookmarks, or items in the bookmark toolbar (Personal Toolbar is a bad and confusing name for new users), so the grammatically correct word order is bookmarks toolbar items. I agree that it's easy to confuse with the Bookmarks button, so I'm open to suggestions for improvement, as long as they are grammatically correct - we only can implement a change in 2.1 though, as 2.0.x cannot take any string changes for localization reasons. Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Daniel schrieb: Us masses should not even be, directly, touching prefs.js!! Make the changes in user.js and let SM copy them into prefs.js!! Right, you shouldn't touch prefs.js - the masses should also never touch or have a user.js at all, though (IMHO, we even should remove that feature as about:config is better nowadays). And the masses also should not ever need to touch about:config as well, everything a normal mass-user should need to look into is the graphical preferences window. Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Robert Kaiser wrote: Daniel schrieb: Us masses should not even be, directly, touching prefs.js!! Make the changes in user.js and let SM copy them into prefs.js!! Right, you shouldn't touch prefs.js - the masses should also never touch or have a user.js at all, though (IMHO, we even should remove that feature as about:config is better nowadays). And the masses also should not ever need to touch about:config as well, everything a normal mass-user should need to look into is the graphical preferences window. Robert Kaiser How about some type of switch for average user and expert user. Expert user would be as now allows User.js files and working with about:config. Th Average user mode would have no ability to create a USER.js or and about:config would be hidden. That way after a person has dealt with SM for a year or two could then turn on expert mode to get the powers we now. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Robert Kaiser wrote: Leonidas Jones schrieb: I suspect its a labeling mismatch, probably due to the difference in naming between SM and FF. In SM it has always been the Personal Toolbar, going back to Moz Suite days, in FF, its been the Bookmarks toolbar as long as I can remember. Yes, it's probably connected to that one. And I have, since my very early Netcape days, always thought as Personal Toolbar as a very bad name, esp. as it just contained bookmark items all the way until we introduced customization - now it can contain anything, and all the main toolbars are personal in some way... I think that we should probably rename that bar some time, though I'm not 100% sure yet of what the better name would be. I fully agree though that having both Bookmarks and Bookmarks Toolbar Items in the customization is probably easy to confuse and we could think about finding a better name for the latter in a further version, e.g. 2.1 (not that we cannot change any strings in 2.0.x for localization reasons). Robert Kaiser Actually, I think Personal Tolbar is fine, since it is the one toolbar that would differ from one person's installation to another, at least way back when. Now you can create any number of personalized toolbars. I would leave the name alone, since people are used to it. Lee ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Robert Kaiser wrote: Daniel schrieb: Us masses should not even be, directly, touching prefs.js!! Make the changes in user.js and let SM copy them into prefs.js!! Right, you shouldn't touch prefs.js - the masses should also never touch or have a user.js at all, though (IMHO, we even should remove that feature as about:config is better nowadays). And the masses also should not ever need to touch about:config as well, everything a normal mass-user should need to look into is the graphical preferences window. Robert Kaiser I haven't even kept a user.js since the editable about:config came through. Its easier and safer. The problem with user.js is that while you can add prefs easily, you still have to remove them by editing prefs.js, which can have disastrous results. On the other hand, a lot of old line users are very accustomed to user.js, so unless there is a compelling reason to remove it, why not let it stay. Lee ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones wrote, on 2009-12-29 13:41: Robert Kaiser wrote: Daniel schrieb: Us masses should not even be, directly, touching prefs.js!! Make the changes in user.js and let SM copy them into prefs.js!! Right, you shouldn't touch prefs.js - the masses should also never touch or have a user.js at all, though (IMHO, we even should remove that feature as about:config is better nowadays). And the masses also should not ever need to touch about:config as well, everything a normal mass-user should need to look into is the graphical preferences window. Robert Kaiser How about some type of switch for average user and expert user. Expert user would be as now allows User.js files and working with about:config. Th Average user mode would have no ability to create a USER.js or and about:config would be hidden. That way after a person has dealt with SM for a year or two could then turn on expert mode to get the powers we now. I have suggested that some time ago when Kairo made a public query before the launch of SM 2.0. I did say that because many users I try to convince to adopt SeaMonkey reply that Firefox is simpler and easier that SM (although this exactly one of the many reasons I personally do NOT use Firefox). ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Robert Kaiser wrote: Leonidas Jones schrieb: I suspect its a labeling mismatch, probably due to the difference in naming between SM and FF. In SM it has always been the Personal Toolbar, going back to Moz Suite days, in FF, its been the Bookmarks toolbar as long as I can remember. Yes, it's probably connected to that one. And I have, since my very early Netcape days, always thought as Personal Toolbar as a very bad name, esp. as it just contained bookmark items all the way until we introduced customization - now it can contain anything, and all the main toolbars are personal in some way... I think that we should probably rename that bar some time, though I'm not 100% sure yet of what the better name would be. I fully agree though that having both Bookmarks and Bookmarks Toolbar Items in the customization is probably easy to confuse and we could think about finding a better name for the latter in a further version, e.g. 2.1 (not that we cannot change any strings in 2.0.x for localization reasons). Robert Kaiser I like Toolbar Bookmarks Items or some variation on that - at least that makes it more distinguishable from Bookmarks on a fast glance. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: ...shame on Firefox, then. Why? I could see calling it Toolbar Bookmark Items, though. That would be wrong grammar. They are items in the toolbar that represent bookmarks, or items in the bookmark toolbar (Personal Toolbar is a bad and confusing name for new users), so the grammatically correct word order is bookmarks toolbar items. I agree that it's easy to confuse with the Bookmarks button, so I'm open to suggestions for improvement, as long as they are grammatically correct - we only can implement a change in 2.1 though, as 2.0.x cannot take any string changes for localization reasons. Robert Kaiser Yeah - and that did trip me up a few days a go. But as you mentioned they really are Bookmarks, they are in the Toolbar, and it need to be a distinct from Bookmarks. It's having Bookmarks first in line that makes it awkward... ...maybe just Toolbar Items? Or Personal Toolbar Items? -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rubens wrote: Phillip Jones wrote, on 2009-12-29 13:41: Robert Kaiser wrote: Daniel schrieb: Us masses should not even be, directly, touching prefs.js!! Make the changes in user.js and let SM copy them into prefs.js!! Right, you shouldn't touch prefs.js - the masses should also never touch or have a user.js at all, though (IMHO, we even should remove that feature as about:config is better nowadays). And the masses also should not ever need to touch about:config as well, everything a normal mass-user should need to look into is the graphical preferences window. Robert Kaiser How about some type of switch for average user and expert user. Expert user would be as now allows User.js files and working with about:config. Th Average user mode would have no ability to create a USER.js or and about:config would be hidden. That way after a person has dealt with SM for a year or two could then turn on expert mode to get the powers we now. I have suggested that some time ago when Kairo made a public query before the launch of SM 2.0. I did say that because many users I try to convince to adopt SeaMonkey reply that Firefox is simpler and easier that SM (although this exactly one of the many reasons I personally do NOT use Firefox). Same here. I found Firefox to be far less flexible/user configurable. This isn't an idea without precedent - my ISP has just started offering an advanced presentation choice for it's webmail interface...unfortunately, they've REALLY screwed up the transition and the advanced version seems to have been pulled for the last few days... -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:41:22 -0500, Phillip Jones pjon...@kimbanet.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: How about some type of switch for average user and expert user. Expert user would be as now allows User.js files and working with about:config. Th Average user mode would have no ability to create a USER.js or and about:config would be hidden. That way after a person has dealt with SM for a year or two could then turn on expert mode to get the powers we now. You don't really think there is actually a hidden to those that wish to see, or a non-ability to create/modify a file for those that wish? Obviously, the crux of what I said was those that wish because the innards of the computer now are effectively hidden to a majority of users. BTW, your final premise is unworkable because at the end of the 'year or two' the most you could have would be someone competent at which options to click. Other than that, you have a great idea. :-) jim ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus schrieb: ...maybe just Toolbar Items? Or Personal Toolbar Items? What I have thought about is Personal Bookmark Items, which is about as long as the current one and goes better in line with the current name of the toolbar, though still pointing to bookmarks. Maybe even just Personal Bookmarks, but that could be too little precise. Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones schrieb: How about some type of switch for average user and expert user. Expert user would be as now allows User.js files and working with about:config. Th Average user mode would have no ability to create a USER.js or and about:config would be hidden. Big switches are often UI failures. In any case, the user.js issue is core Mozilla platform, the decision would need to be there and they are not looking for removing user.js support as far as I know, so take as just some random crazy thing running round in my head :P On the other hand, it's not that broadly spread knowledge so probably pretty advanded anyhow. And about:config is already hidden, you only get it by entering it manually and acknowleding a warning (though people didn't understand the warning wanting to be somewhat funny). Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: ...maybe just Toolbar Items? Or Personal Toolbar Items? What I have thought about is Personal Bookmark Items, which is about as long as the current one and goes better in line with the current name of the toolbar, though still pointing to bookmarks. Maybe even just Personal Bookmarks, but that could be too little precise. Robert Kaiser Any of those sound ok to me. ...but the Personal Bookmarks one gets me back to where that folder came from in my Bookmarks list...only thing I can think of is that it got imported from IE many years ago when I first started using NS/MS/SM, and I've just kept using that leftover folder. So I'd check and try to make sure you wouldn't be duplicating a name that might get imported/migrated - from IE in particular, seeing as there are so many IE installs out there. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:20:42 +0100, Robert Kaiser ka...@kairo.at in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: snip (though people didn't understand the warning wanting to be somewhat funny). Robert Kaiser At least one person found it worth an audible laugh -- me. The idea of voiding a warranty on something that was free is choice. I even showed it to a Lenovo tech I know for its humor value... jim ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/29/2009 05:13 AM, Robert Kaiser wrote: Daniel schrieb: Us masses should not even be, directly, touching prefs.js!! Make the changes in user.js and let SM copy them into prefs.js!! Right, you shouldn't touch prefs.js - the masses should also never touch or have a user.js at all, though (IMHO, we even should remove that feature as about:config is better nowadays). And the masses also should not ever need to touch about:config as well, everything a normal mass-user should need to look into is the graphical preferences window. Robert Kaiser Perhaps not the masses; but having the ability to quickly change path/user enmass in prefs.js is what enables me to easily transport an entire .mozilla folder to another machine have it working in a matter of minutes. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
NoOp wrote: Perhaps not the masses; but having the ability to quickly change path/user enmass in prefs.js is what enables me to easily transport an entire .mozilla folder to another machine have it working in a matter of minutes. Sure, that's the power of text-based and/or easy-to-read storing formats. But then, anyone editing configuration files manually is probably not the masses, as you state. ;-) Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Interviewed by CNN on 29/12/2009 18:16, Robert Kaiser told the world: Rufus schrieb: ...maybe just Toolbar Items? Or Personal Toolbar Items? What I have thought about is Personal Bookmark Items, which is about as long as the current one and goes better in line with the current name of the toolbar, though still pointing to bookmarks. Maybe even just Personal Bookmarks, but that could be too little precise. I have to disagree. Generally speaking, ALL bookmarks are personal inasmuch as they are a personal customization, and the ones in the toolbar aren't any more personal than the other ones. What about something like Quick Bookmarks? That's fairly descriptive -- they are bookmarks, but they are easier to access (and therefore quicker) because they are in a toolbar. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... BOFH excuse #201: RPC_PMAP_FAILURE * TagZilla 0.0661 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org on Seamonkey 2.0 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
MCBastos wrote: Interviewed by CNN on 29/12/2009 18:16, Robert Kaiser told the world: Rufus schrieb: ...maybe just Toolbar Items? Or Personal Toolbar Items? What I have thought about is Personal Bookmark Items, which is about as long as the current one and goes better in line with the current name of the toolbar, though still pointing to bookmarks. Maybe even just Personal Bookmarks, but that could be too little precise. I have to disagree. Generally speaking, ALL bookmarks are personal inasmuch as they are a personal customization, and the ones in the toolbar aren't any more personal than the other ones. What about something like Quick Bookmarks? That's fairly descriptive -- they are bookmarks, but they are easier to access (and therefore quicker) because they are in a toolbar. Personal Toolbar is the best is where you personalize the specific items you want quick access to. The way I use Bookmarks If I find a site I want to save to go back to on occasion I simply bookmark it. That means it they are just loose in the bookmarks Folder. However I have some items that I go to at least once a week if not once a day I place them within sub folders, or loose on The Personal Toolbar I don't even use the sub folder created by SM from Scratch other than what I create on the Personal Toolbar. I don't put anything else other than bookmarks on the personal Toolbar. So to me the most apt description is Personal Toolbar. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Robert Kaiser wrote: NoOp wrote: Perhaps not the masses; but having the ability to quickly change path/user enmass in prefs.js is what enables me to easily transport an entire .mozilla folder to another machine have it working in a matter of minutes. Sure, that's the power of text-based and/or easy-to-read storing formats. But then, anyone editing configuration files manually is probably not the masses, as you state. ;-) Robert Kaiser I didn't dream of modifying about config items until I went to last version or two of Mozilla. And I've been a User of Mozilla Products since Netscape Navigator 3.0.1.a Gold. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Rufus wrote: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: /snip/ /snip/ I suspect its a labeling mismatch, probably due to the difference in naming between SM and FF. In SM it has always been the Personal Toolbar, going back to Moz Suite days, in FF, its been the Bookmarks toolbar as long as I can remember. Lee That's what I seem to recall...and that there is also a Personal Items or Personal Bookmarks folder included by default in a newly created Profile - right? Personal Toolbar Folder in my profile. Lee That's what I have too. And I also have a Personal Bookmarks folder that I believe is a default include. But SM is acting properly, even though the menu item says one thing and the folder says another. Not being a code-head, I assume there's a pointer which isn't dependent on the folder name? Seeing as it's working...or should the installer/migration have renamed it? Oh - and with 2.0.1, the previous grayed out empty items in my Bookmarks list under 2.0 went away. On Mac Version of SM 2/2.0.1 The personal Toolbar Shows as Personal Tool Bar when you go to Bookmark Menu and choose Manage Bookmarks and also on the View Menu it shows as Personal Toolbar. Must be a PC thing. Actually for what it does it should be named Personal Toolbar. Why? because it a Place you want to personally keep up with every day or keep at the ready for added convenience. On FireFox it is called Bookmarks bar in both places. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Philip Chee wrote: On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:14:55 -0800, Leonidas Jones wrote: I suspect its a labeling mismatch, probably due to the difference in naming between SM and FF. In SM it has always been the Personal Toolbar, going back to Moz Suite days, in FF, its been the Bookmarks toolbar as long as I can remember. As far as I know in Firefox it is still officially called the Personal Toolbar although of course most users refer to it as the Bookmarks toolbar. Phil No, in 3.5.6 its called Bookmarks Bar which is confusing and redundant in a way. Inside Bookmarks Folder directory; is a Bookmarks Bar? FF 3.5.6 -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 10:48:31 +1100, Daniel d...@albury.nospam.net.au in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. Us masses should not even be, directly, touching prefs.js!! Make the changes in user.js and let SM copy them into prefs.js!! That, sir, is your opinion. I do not share it. Assuming that aspect (user.js/prefs.js) works the same way it used to. It is totally unnecessary because prefs.js is called into memory and drags user.js with it, hence, the changes -- or the errors -- *effectively* are part of the mother memory file -- which happens to have started as the textual file prefs.js. I would not tell the elderly lady across the street to open prefs.js in her favorite editor (as if she had one or knew what it was), but I have no problem with doing so myself, if necessary. I normally make the changes desired in the about:config utility. *PRIOR* to it's existence -- and that may go back to Netscape, I don't know nor care -- i did make changes in prefs.js. I do not consider myself part of a priesthood, I consider myself part of the masses. Now, it is my opinion that those who make statements like you did above must consider themselves to be several cuts above the 'masses'. A bit like a counselor/teacher in a daycare school of infants in concept. If you want to keep it a secret, compile it with a proprietary compiler -- and then you can bet that someone is going to find a way to decompile it. Do you disagree? (This microcosm leads to a larger subject, but I don't think I will broach that in this thread) jim ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Rufus wrote: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: /snip/ /snip/ I suspect its a labeling mismatch, probably due to the difference in naming between SM and FF. In SM it has always been the Personal Toolbar, going back to Moz Suite days, in FF, its been the Bookmarks toolbar as long as I can remember. Lee That's what I seem to recall...and that there is also a Personal Items or Personal Bookmarks folder included by default in a newly created Profile - right? Personal Toolbar Folder in my profile. Lee That's what I have too. And I also have a Personal Bookmarks folder that I believe is a default include. But SM is acting properly, even though the menu item says one thing and the folder says another. Not being a code-head, I assume there's a pointer which isn't dependent on the folder name? Seeing as it's working...or should the installer/migration have renamed it? Oh - and with 2.0.1, the previous grayed out empty items in my Bookmarks list under 2.0 went away. On Mac Version of SM 2/2.0.1 The personal Toolbar Shows as Personal Tool Bar when you go to Bookmark Menu and choose Manage Bookmarks and also on the View Menu it shows as Personal Toolbar. Must be a PC thing. Actually for what it does it should be named Personal Toolbar. Why? because it a Place you want to personally keep up with every day or keep at the ready for added convenience. On FireFox it is called Bookmarks bar in both places. Agreed. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
jim wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 10:48:31 +1100, Danield...@albury.nospam.net.au in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. Us masses should not even be, directly, touching prefs.js!! Make the changes in user.js and let SM copy them into prefs.js!! That, sir, is your opinion. I do not share it. Assuming that aspect (user.js/prefs.js) works the same way it used to. It is totally unnecessary because prefs.js is called into memory and drags user.js with it, hence, the changes -- or the errors -- *effectively* are part of the mother memory file -- which happens to have started as the textual file prefs.js. I would not tell the elderly lady across the street to open prefs.js in her favorite editor (as if she had one or knew what it was), ...but she *IS* part of the masses, so she is exactly whom you *ARE* advocating to fiddle with prefs.js! but I have no problem with doing so myself, if necessary. I normally make the changes desired in the about:config utility. *PRIOR* to it's existence -- and that may go back to Netscape, I don't know nor care -- i did make changes in prefs.js. I do not consider myself part of a priesthood, I consider myself part of the masses. Now, it is my opinion that those who make statements like you did above must consider themselves to be several cuts above the 'masses'. A bit like a counselor/teacher in a daycare school of infants in concept. If you want to keep it a secret, compile it with a proprietary compiler -- and then you can bet that someone is going to find a way to decompile it. Do you disagree? (This microcosm leads to a larger subject, but I don't think I will broach that in this thread) jim No, Sir, I do not agree, but am merely suggesting that those that are unsure, or who just don't have a clue, should not fiddle where they can, inadvertently, do damage to to the programs operation!! The programs designers have given us (you, me, and the unsure) the safer method, so why not use it and promote its use! -- Seasons greeting, one and all and may next year be a better one! Daniel ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: I also noted not long ago that setting sizes for the Navigation and Personal Toolbars is a bit strange/non-intuitive - when it comes to setting button size. I like large buttons in the Nav bar, and small ones in the Personal bar...but the Customize option changes both - once you change it. There is a dance you can do to get back to where I began, but it seems you can't right-click and Customize either bar by itself - only in the Nav bar...same core issue? No, you should be able to right-click in the Personal Toolbar and set the icon size for that toolbar (it won't affect your bookmark folders, though). Try right-clicking close to the Home button. /Stefan That did work, thanks. It's just very hard to target an area that will respond to the right-click so I must have stumbled around to what you said at random previously. Seems to actually be a bit easier to find your target with the old Modern Theme than the new Default...but I think you've explained why. Interesting that you get a different contextual menu depending on which side of the separator you click on, but once you've seen it and know what's what, it's clear. And on trying that, I just discovered this: when I bring up the Customize option, the Bookmarks Items folder appears in the Toolbar even though I'd previously dragged it out - but then is not there once I close Customize; like it's hidden vise removed. But the end result is what I want(ed) displayed on exit - have you seen that? Again, this is with the old Modern Theme. No, I haven't seen that. If you can find a way to reproduce it (might want to try with a new profile etc), it's probably worth filing a bug. /Stefan I just looked at it again and tried dragging it out to make sure - it was then that I noted I'd confused Bookmarks Toolbar Items for Bookmarks. All is well on that one... I found a workaround that solves the targeting problem for right-click - go into Customize and add a Space between the Home button and the Bookmarks Toolbar Items folder in the Toolbar - that helps nicely. But now I'm curious - in my Bookmarks the folder is called Personal Toolbar Folder, and in the Customize menu it's called Bookmarks Toolbar Items - hence my previous confusion on a quick glance. Is that because I migrated my Profile from SM 1.1.18, or is it actually a labeling mis-match? i.e.; if I had started with a brand new Profile would the two say the same thing? -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: Rufus wrote: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: /snip/ I just looked at it again and tried dragging it out to make sure - it was then that I noted I'd confused Bookmarks Toolbar Items for Bookmarks. All is well on that one... I found a workaround that solves the targeting problem for right-click - go into Customize and add a Space between the Home button and the Bookmarks Toolbar Items folder in the Toolbar - that helps nicely. But now I'm curious - in my Bookmarks the folder is called Personal Toolbar Folder, and in the Customize menu it's called Bookmarks Toolbar Items - hence my previous confusion on a quick glance. Is that because I migrated my Profile from SM 1.1.18, or is it actually a labeling mis-match? i.e.; if I had started with a brand new Profile would the two say the same thing? I suspect its a labeling mismatch, probably due to the difference in naming between SM and FF. In SM it has always been the Personal Toolbar, going back to Moz Suite days, in FF, its been the Bookmarks toolbar as long as I can remember. Lee ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Rufus wrote: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: /snip/ I just looked at it again and tried dragging it out to make sure - it was then that I noted I'd confused Bookmarks Toolbar Items for Bookmarks. All is well on that one... I found a workaround that solves the targeting problem for right-click - go into Customize and add a Space between the Home button and the Bookmarks Toolbar Items folder in the Toolbar - that helps nicely. But now I'm curious - in my Bookmarks the folder is called Personal Toolbar Folder, and in the Customize menu it's called Bookmarks Toolbar Items - hence my previous confusion on a quick glance. Is that because I migrated my Profile from SM 1.1.18, or is it actually a labeling mis-match? i.e.; if I had started with a brand new Profile would the two say the same thing? I suspect its a labeling mismatch, probably due to the difference in naming between SM and FF. In SM it has always been the Personal Toolbar, going back to Moz Suite days, in FF, its been the Bookmarks toolbar as long as I can remember. Lee That's what I seem to recall...and that there is also a Personal Items or Personal Bookmarks folder included by default in a newly created Profile - right? -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Philip Chee wrote: On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:14:55 -0800, Rufus wrote: But now I'm curious - in my Bookmarks the folder is called Personal Toolbar Folder, and in the Customize menu it's called Bookmarks Toolbar Items - hence my previous confusion on a quick glance. Is that because I migrated my Profile from SM 1.1.18, or is it actually a labeling mis-match? i.e.; if I had started with a brand new Profile would the two say the same thing? It is a (semi-deliberate) labelling mismatch. When I implemented customizable toolbars in Navigator, I chose to follow the name that Firefox uses for the equivalent thingummybob which in this case is Bookmarks Toolbar Items. Phil ...shame on Firefox, then. I could see calling it Toolbar Bookmark Items, though. At least then it would be easier to differentiate on a quick glace of the menu as well as making sense. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Rufus wrote: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: /snip/ /snip/ I suspect its a labeling mismatch, probably due to the difference in naming between SM and FF. In SM it has always been the Personal Toolbar, going back to Moz Suite days, in FF, its been the Bookmarks toolbar as long as I can remember. Lee That's what I seem to recall...and that there is also a Personal Items or Personal Bookmarks folder included by default in a newly created Profile - right? Personal Toolbar Folder in my profile. Lee That's what I have too. And I also have a Personal Bookmarks folder that I believe is a default include. But SM is acting properly, even though the menu item says one thing and the folder says another. Not being a code-head, I assume there's a pointer which isn't dependent on the folder name? Seeing as it's working...or should the installer/migration have renamed it? Oh - and with 2.0.1, the previous grayed out empty items in my Bookmarks list under 2.0 went away. No Personal Bookmarks folder in a clean profile, sorry. Lee ...hmmnnn...I wonder where that came from? Imported IE Favs when I first installed years ago? Mystery...anyway, I've been using it for some time...that's a laugh. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
NoOp wrote: On 12/25/2009 05:09 PM, Rufus wrote: NoOp wrote: ... What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? Actually, my 89 y.o. grandmother, her 60 y.0. live-in nurse, my 2nd grade nephew, and multiple relatives that haven't the simplest clue about browsers email clients use SeaMonkey daily. As do nearly one hundred of my commercial client installations. And do they manipulate about:config, or do any of the more advanced workarounds that you suggest for us power users? Yes. I support them remotely, and generally they can follow instructions pretty well. All I'm saying is that an average user should not have to resort to such in order to solve problems or implement preferences - and that the basic program should be informative and flexible enough that they shouldn't have to. So go find another program that will suit your needs. I don't usually say this, but I think it's time that you get a grip regarding SeaMonkey, or move on to something else that suits your requirements. Your continued bitching about SeaMonkey not meeing this, or that, or whatever, has quite frankly become quite irritating. In all honesty, I'm begining to pity the company that you work/consult for. ...remember that next time you travel by air...from engines to ATC. A lot of the tech pubs written in support of those operations are standardized to a 6th to 8th grade user level. Well, let's see... I probably started working on US government aircraft well before you were born - does circa 1971 work for you?. I worked for McDonnell Douglas for many years. I've been reading and working with (including editing) tech manuals (US covernment and civilian) for over 30 years. Most of the time that I've ended up editing such manuals was due to some dit that decided that they should have been written at a 6th to 8th grade user level I then needed to edit them so that someone with a reasonable reading comprehension could actually understand them. ...I should look you up in the book, then. What would you propose SeaMonkey be dumbed down to? Would you propose that about:config, prefs.js, and other user modifiable sections simply not become available? I would propose that the basic, non-extended, as delivered product be coded to suit the widest possible user base, so that the widest number of users can use it - easily. As delivered, it is dumbed down by default, and I seriously doubt that many of your relatives go editing component files of the app on their own...at least, not without consulting you. I would propose that you either: 1) find another product, or 2) write your own. For if SeaMonkey ever becomes what you desire I will certainly do #1 above. SM 1.1.18 is what I desire. It works quite nicely, and I'll keep using it. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus skriver: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Then there was the whole of the new default more Mac-like interface...I was only able to tolerate that about four days, then I replaced it with the other Modern one. And I'm a Mac user...I do have to say, the folks on Thunderbird did a way better job making a Mac-like Mac presentation - kudos there. I guess it's obvious, but you have seriously failed to communicate what you actually thought was so wrong with the theme changes. /Stefan I did in detail, but in another thread...so I saw no need to repeat that. I think the thread had SM 2.0 - A Mac User's Observations in the title. But briefly, as I recall everyone had some common complaints with it - the most common one being it's lack of grippies; and the best solution I recall for that was to make the entire bar area a grippie for snap open/close of the sidebar and such. That was a real convenience deal-breaker for me using a laptop, and probably the single biggest reason I switched to the other Theme. Another was that certain areas of the navigation bar are not intuitively available to right-click - some of the larger areas that seem like they should respond to a right-click don't respond. And I think described a number of other issues which gave rise to particular problems for a laptop user...if you want, I can look back and re-post here - but I've been saving all of my observations for drafting formal bug reports. One of the big reasons I haven't written formal bug reports (yet - I have been quoted in the too-small buttons report thread) is that I've become pretty confident that they won't be responded to as a result of all the single-ended venom I've read over the too-small buttons. I think the first (sidebar grippies) falls in the theme category. I've been trying to figure out how that can be solved and still retaining a modern mac look. If the whole area should respond to open/close clicks it might conflict with the drag behaviour. It might be possible to design something in line with Apple's Mail, though. The navigation bar right-click issue is a core bug that I think is already filed. I think what happens is that the topmost area is still considered a title bar by the back-end code and thus it doesn't respond to right-clicks. /Stefan ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Then there was the whole of the new default more Mac-like interface...I was only able to tolerate that about four days, then I replaced it with the other Modern one. And I'm a Mac user...I do have to say, the folks on Thunderbird did a way better job making a Mac-like Mac presentation - kudos there. I guess it's obvious, but you have seriously failed to communicate what you actually thought was so wrong with the theme changes. /Stefan I did in detail, but in another thread...so I saw no need to repeat that. I think the thread had SM 2.0 - A Mac User's Observations in the title. But briefly, as I recall everyone had some common complaints with it - the most common one being it's lack of grippies; and the best solution I recall for that was to make the entire bar area a grippie for snap open/close of the sidebar and such. That was a real convenience deal-breaker for me using a laptop, and probably the single biggest reason I switched to the other Theme. Another was that certain areas of the navigation bar are not intuitively available to right-click - some of the larger areas that seem like they should respond to a right-click don't respond. And I think described a number of other issues which gave rise to particular problems for a laptop user...if you want, I can look back and re-post here - but I've been saving all of my observations for drafting formal bug reports. One of the big reasons I haven't written formal bug reports (yet - I have been quoted in the too-small buttons report thread) is that I've become pretty confident that they won't be responded to as a result of all the single-ended venom I've read over the too-small buttons. I think the first (sidebar grippies) falls in the theme category. I've been trying to figure out how that can be solved and still retaining a modern mac look. If the whole area should respond to open/close clicks it might conflict with the drag behaviour. It might be possible to design something in line with Apple's Mail, though. Mail.app Sidebar does at least snap open/shut if you drag the window edge far enough...which is ok working on a desktop, but that implementation also becomes a bit cumbersome if you're working in a smaller space and with smaller windows, like on a laptop. Since I use 2.0.1 primarily on my MacBook Pro, I always try to point out that I'm making my commentary from a small screen user's POV. I really think the idea someone suggested of being able to click anyplace on the Sidebar bar and have it snap closed or open to the previous position (acting like a grippie, but without a real grippie) has a lot of merit - that would allow you to retain the current look of the panes...which I don't really have an issue with. Would also work nicely with a small window, I think. In fact, if Mail.app would act as above, that would be an improvement for Mail.app, IMO. The navigation bar right-click issue is a core bug that I think is already filed. I think what happens is that the topmost area is still considered a title bar by the back-end code and thus it doesn't respond to right-clicks. /Stefan That makes a bit more sense - I was thinking it was the graphics of the Theme presentation itself and not something else because I pretty much took care of it to better satisfaction by switching Themes. I also noted not long ago that setting sizes for the Navigation and Personal Toolbars is a bit strange/non-intuitive - when it comes to setting button size. I like large buttons in the Nav bar, and small ones in the Personal bar...but the Customize option changes both - once you change it. There is a dance you can do to get back to where I began, but it seems you can't right-click and Customize either bar by itself - only in the Nav bar...same core issue? -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus skriver: I also noted not long ago that setting sizes for the Navigation and Personal Toolbars is a bit strange/non-intuitive - when it comes to setting button size. I like large buttons in the Nav bar, and small ones in the Personal bar...but the Customize option changes both - once you change it. There is a dance you can do to get back to where I began, but it seems you can't right-click and Customize either bar by itself - only in the Nav bar...same core issue? No, you should be able to right-click in the Personal Toolbar and set the icon size for that toolbar (it won't affect your bookmark folders, though). Try right-clicking close to the Home button. /Stefan ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: I also noted not long ago that setting sizes for the Navigation and Personal Toolbars is a bit strange/non-intuitive - when it comes to setting button size. I like large buttons in the Nav bar, and small ones in the Personal bar...but the Customize option changes both - once you change it. There is a dance you can do to get back to where I began, but it seems you can't right-click and Customize either bar by itself - only in the Nav bar...same core issue? No, you should be able to right-click in the Personal Toolbar and set the icon size for that toolbar (it won't affect your bookmark folders, though). Try right-clicking close to the Home button. /Stefan That did work, thanks. It's just very hard to target an area that will respond to the right-click so I must have stumbled around to what you said at random previously. Seems to actually be a bit easier to find your target with the old Modern Theme than the new Default...but I think you've explained why. Interesting that you get a different contextual menu depending on which side of the separator you click on, but once you've seen it and know what's what, it's clear. And on trying that, I just discovered this: when I bring up the Customize option, the Bookmarks Items folder appears in the Toolbar even though I'd previously dragged it out - but then is not there once I close Customize; like it's hidden vise removed. But the end result is what I want(ed) displayed on exit - have you seen that? Again, this is with the old Modern Theme. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus skriver: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: I also noted not long ago that setting sizes for the Navigation and Personal Toolbars is a bit strange/non-intuitive - when it comes to setting button size. I like large buttons in the Nav bar, and small ones in the Personal bar...but the Customize option changes both - once you change it. There is a dance you can do to get back to where I began, but it seems you can't right-click and Customize either bar by itself - only in the Nav bar...same core issue? No, you should be able to right-click in the Personal Toolbar and set the icon size for that toolbar (it won't affect your bookmark folders, though). Try right-clicking close to the Home button. /Stefan That did work, thanks. It's just very hard to target an area that will respond to the right-click so I must have stumbled around to what you said at random previously. Seems to actually be a bit easier to find your target with the old Modern Theme than the new Default...but I think you've explained why. Interesting that you get a different contextual menu depending on which side of the separator you click on, but once you've seen it and know what's what, it's clear. And on trying that, I just discovered this: when I bring up the Customize option, the Bookmarks Items folder appears in the Toolbar even though I'd previously dragged it out - but then is not there once I close Customize; like it's hidden vise removed. But the end result is what I want(ed) displayed on exit - have you seen that? Again, this is with the old Modern Theme. No, I haven't seen that. If you can find a way to reproduce it (might want to try with a new profile etc), it's probably worth filing a bug. /Stefan ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: I also noted not long ago that setting sizes for the Navigation and Personal Toolbars is a bit strange/non-intuitive - when it comes to setting button size. I like large buttons in the Nav bar, and small ones in the Personal bar...but the Customize option changes both - once you change it. There is a dance you can do to get back to where I began, but it seems you can't right-click and Customize either bar by itself - only in the Nav bar...same core issue? No, you should be able to right-click in the Personal Toolbar and set the icon size for that toolbar (it won't affect your bookmark folders, though). Try right-clicking close to the Home button. /Stefan That did work, thanks. It's just very hard to target an area that will respond to the right-click so I must have stumbled around to what you said at random previously. Seems to actually be a bit easier to find your target with the old Modern Theme than the new Default...but I think you've explained why. Interesting that you get a different contextual menu depending on which side of the separator you click on, but once you've seen it and know what's what, it's clear. And on trying that, I just discovered this: when I bring up the Customize option, the Bookmarks Items folder appears in the Toolbar even though I'd previously dragged it out - but then is not there once I close Customize; like it's hidden vise removed. But the end result is what I want(ed) displayed on exit - have you seen that? Again, this is with the old Modern Theme. No, I haven't seen that. If you can find a way to reproduce it (might want to try with a new profile etc), it's probably worth filing a bug. /Stefan I just looked at it again and tried dragging it out to make sure - it was then that I noted I'd confused Bookmarks Toolbar Items for Bookmarks. All is well on that one... -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufus n...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. A computer is only as smart or dumb as the user. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones wrote: fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. A computer is only as smart or dumb as the user. ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/25/2009 04:07 PM, Rufus wrote: ... ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. Nonsense. Please don't advocate this. If you'd like dumbed down look elsewhere. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? Actually, my 89 y.o. grandmother, her 60 y.0. live-in nurse, my 2nd grade nephew, and multiple relatives that haven't the simplest clue about browsers email clients use SeaMonkey daily. As do nearly one hundred of my commercial client installations. I don't usually say this, but I think it's time that you get a grip regarding SeaMonkey, or move on to something else that suits your requirements. Your continued bitching about SeaMonkey not meeing this, or that, or whatever, has quite frankly become quite irritating. In all honesty, I'm begining to pity the company that you work/consult for. What would you propose SeaMonkey be dumbed down to? Would you propose that about:config, prefs.js, and other user modifiable sections simply not become available? ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. A computer is only as smart or dumb as the user. ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? You'd have more trouble with the Grandma than the 3 or 4 year old. I worked for a school system system as a Audio-Visual Electronics Technician. when computers first came out (TI-88, Commodore 64 and 128, Apple II, Apple IIe, Winn 286, 386, Epson Equity, IBM PS1 and 2. I found that the Kids took to the computers like ducks to water. while the teachers were scared to even tun the computers on. Often a 5, 6, 7 year old was assigned to turn the computer on and get it running. one funny incident one of the librarian gave a program Floppy to a Child. the child came back a minute or two later saying teacher need her to come get the computer going. she went and fond that they had a TI-88 which used cartridges. and she had asked for floppy that to go in an Apple IIe and folded it up to put in the slot of the TI-88. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/25/2009 04:39 PM, NoOp wrote: On 12/25/2009 04:07 PM, Rufus wrote: ... ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. Nonsense. Please don't advocate this. If you'd like dumbed down look elsewhere. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? Actually, my 89 y.o. grandmother, her 60 y.0. live-in nurse, my 2nd Apologies; should be 'my 89 y.o. mother mother-in-law'. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
NoOp wrote: On 12/25/2009 04:07 PM, Rufus wrote: ... ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. Nonsense. Please don't advocate this. If you'd like dumbed down look elsewhere. ...if you look elsewhere, you'll very likely be surprised what you find. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? Actually, my 89 y.o. grandmother, her 60 y.0. live-in nurse, my 2nd grade nephew, and multiple relatives that haven't the simplest clue about browsers email clients use SeaMonkey daily. As do nearly one hundred of my commercial client installations. And do they manipulate about:config, or do any of the more advanced workarounds that you suggest for us power users? All I'm saying is that an average user should not have to resort to such in order to solve problems or implement preferences - and that the basic program should be informative and flexible enough that they shouldn't have to. I don't usually say this, but I think it's time that you get a grip regarding SeaMonkey, or move on to something else that suits your requirements. Your continued bitching about SeaMonkey not meeing this, or that, or whatever, has quite frankly become quite irritating. In all honesty, I'm begining to pity the company that you work/consult for. ...remember that next time you travel by air...from engines to ATC. A lot of the tech pubs written in support of those operations are standardized to a 6th to 8th grade user level. What would you propose SeaMonkey be dumbed down to? Would you propose that about:config, prefs.js, and other user modifiable sections simply not become available? I would propose that the basic, non-extended, as delivered product be coded to suit the widest possible user base, so that the widest number of users can use it - easily. As delivered, it is dumbed down by default, and I seriously doubt that many of your relatives go editing component files of the app on their own...at least, not without consulting you. But being as flexible and extensible as it is through add-ons, it can also be smartened up to suit just about any user's needs - and that's one of it's strongest points, IMO. I personally don't use any add-ons, because the basic app has always served to do what I care to do. As far as meeting my needs and preferences - SM 1.1.18 did that, and continues to do so...so I'll likely stick with it, and revert my upgrades until the 2.x series gains more maturity. Yeah, it's got a couple flaws, but nothing as annoying to me as the latest releases...and it's got a larger built in user feature set - which is really the crux of what I like about it. So I'll continue to use 1.1.18 and accept what comes with that. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. A computer is only as smart or dumb as the user. ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? You'd have more trouble with the Grandma than the 3 or 4 year old. I worked for a school system system as a Audio-Visual Electronics Technician. when computers first came out (TI-88, Commodore 64 and 128, Apple II, Apple IIe, Winn 286, 386, Epson Equity, IBM PS1 and 2. I found that the Kids took to the computers like ducks to water. while the teachers were scared to even tun the computers on. Often a 5, 6, 7 year old was assigned to turn the computer on and get it running. one funny incident one of the librarian gave a program Floppy to a Child. the child came back a minute or two later saying teacher need her to come get the computer going. she went and fond that they had a TI-88 which used cartridges. and she had asked for floppy that to go in an Apple IIe and folded it up to put in the slot of the TI-88. I can totally agree with you...and that's part my the point about addressing the whole as opposed to the few. We're locked in a very similar debate at work right now, the basis of which boils down to how younger aviators train, vs what older aviators are used to seeing on their displays. Very heated generationally based discussion/argument that's gone on for a year now, and likely to go on for another year...not to mention that the bottom line is that the initial implementation really could end up risking someone's life, in the opinion of some crew members. So what do you do? We're at least building in the option to turn this new feature off, and revert to the previous (simpler) display. Yeah - the day may come long after I'm gone when the new display will be the standard, but that's NOT today. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones wrote: fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. A computer is only as smart or dumb as the user. No truer words were ever spoken. what we used to call GIGO. :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus skriver: Then there was the whole of the new default more Mac-like interface...I was only able to tolerate that about four days, then I replaced it with the other Modern one. And I'm a Mac user...I do have to say, the folks on Thunderbird did a way better job making a Mac-like Mac presentation - kudos there. I guess it's obvious, but you have seriously failed to communicate what you actually thought was so wrong with the theme changes. /Stefan ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Then there was the whole of the new default more Mac-like interface...I was only able to tolerate that about four days, then I replaced it with the other Modern one. And I'm a Mac user...I do have to say, the folks on Thunderbird did a way better job making a Mac-like Mac presentation - kudos there. I guess it's obvious, but you have seriously failed to communicate what you actually thought was so wrong with the theme changes. /Stefan I did in detail, but in another thread...so I saw no need to repeat that. I think the thread had SM 2.0 - A Mac User's Observations in the title. But briefly, as I recall everyone had some common complaints with it - the most common one being it's lack of grippies; and the best solution I recall for that was to make the entire bar area a grippie for snap open/close of the sidebar and such. That was a real convenience deal-breaker for me using a laptop, and probably the single biggest reason I switched to the other Theme. Another was that certain areas of the navigation bar are not intuitively available to right-click - some of the larger areas that seem like they should respond to a right-click don't respond. And I think described a number of other issues which gave rise to particular problems for a laptop user...if you want, I can look back and re-post here - but I've been saving all of my observations for drafting formal bug reports. One of the big reasons I haven't written formal bug reports (yet - I have been quoted in the too-small buttons report thread) is that I've become pretty confident that they won't be responded to as a result of all the single-ended venom I've read over the too-small buttons. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/25/2009 05:09 PM, Rufus wrote: NoOp wrote: ... What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? Actually, my 89 y.o. grandmother, her 60 y.0. live-in nurse, my 2nd grade nephew, and multiple relatives that haven't the simplest clue about browsers email clients use SeaMonkey daily. As do nearly one hundred of my commercial client installations. And do they manipulate about:config, or do any of the more advanced workarounds that you suggest for us power users? Yes. I support them remotely, and generally they can follow instructions pretty well. All I'm saying is that an average user should not have to resort to such in order to solve problems or implement preferences - and that the basic program should be informative and flexible enough that they shouldn't have to. So go find another program that will suit your needs. I don't usually say this, but I think it's time that you get a grip regarding SeaMonkey, or move on to something else that suits your requirements. Your continued bitching about SeaMonkey not meeing this, or that, or whatever, has quite frankly become quite irritating. In all honesty, I'm begining to pity the company that you work/consult for. ...remember that next time you travel by air...from engines to ATC. A lot of the tech pubs written in support of those operations are standardized to a 6th to 8th grade user level. Well, let's see... I probably started working on US government aircraft well before you were born - does circa 1971 work for you?. I worked for McDonnell Douglas for many years. I've been reading and working with (including editing) tech manuals (US covernment and civilian) for over 30 years. Most of the time that I've ended up editing such manuals was due to some dit that decided that they should have been written at a 6th to 8th grade user level I then needed to edit them so that someone with a reasonable reading comprehension could actually understand them. What would you propose SeaMonkey be dumbed down to? Would you propose that about:config, prefs.js, and other user modifiable sections simply not become available? I would propose that the basic, non-extended, as delivered product be coded to suit the widest possible user base, so that the widest number of users can use it - easily. As delivered, it is dumbed down by default, and I seriously doubt that many of your relatives go editing component files of the app on their own...at least, not without consulting you. I would propose that you either: 1) find another product, or 2) write your own. For if SeaMonkey ever becomes what you desire I will certainly do #1 above. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Jens Hatlak wrote: That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 Jens: I don't care about Javascript in mailnews (as long as it's not on bt default), but I think that it should be possible to turn it on for RSS. -- David Wilkinson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Philip Chee wrote: Well it's back partially (or going to be back partially) but only for *non* mailnews content such as RSS feeds and other third party contentTabs (in Thunderbird). Yes, I think it is important to allow different settings for RSS and mailnews. -- David Wilkinson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
NoOp wrote: On 12/22/2009 06:39 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: NoOp wrote: ---snip--- But apparently do not understand the risks associated with html and javascript in emails. You can of course choose to ignore the default settings SeaMonkey/about:config allows you to do that. ---snip--- JavaScript was in html mail as far as back perhaps Netscape Navigator 3.0.1.a Gold. and the h=whole time not once did I experience a Problem And I have viewed many a html or newsgroup post with JavaScript in it and not once a problem. Yet recently there is all the fear of JavaScript. Talk about something dangerous, talk about Active-X. Active-X is a lot more Dangerous than JavaScript. SeaMonkey doesn't run Active-X so the reference isn't relevant here. You've also been advocating html javascript in email for as long as I remember. I wonder how your spam rate is? Also keep in mind that you run a Mac, so the issues of something spinning up on your Mac vs that of a Windows user is perhaps different. Just because you've kept the blinders on all these years doesn't mean that html javascript in emails is a good thing. Google will certainly show you that. I have very little spam. I have one email box have open just to catch spam. and this one that I have been using for years I average about 4 to 5 pieces a day. SM Spam filtering works well Plus My computer is set up to operate in stealth mode. If anyone else that has a Mac might be able explain better what that is. Plus my ISP doesn't use static IP. and uses DHCP. On the mailbox I keep as a spam Catcher the spam filtering I have set up through my ISP's web-mail catches some and about once a week I go into web mail and dump spam the have retained in junk folder I look and to see whats what and delete about once a a week. I expect I have less spam than most of the other here do. On the spam catcher account I am considering the Possibility of instead of sending to a Junk folder just to delete out right . But their is always the possibility some one legit might post and might be caught in the filtering. SM's filtering might be better if I dump the training data File I haven't reset it in years. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones wrote: Rather that take out features because a few very few consider it a Risk. Use common sense. allow the users decide. Up until it was banned there has always been a choice in the the preferences all the way back to the beginning of communicator and possibly Netscape Navigator 3.0.1.a Gold to turn it on or off. The reason the option was there is that it was known even back then that Javascript is a risk! It isn't a few who consider Javascript a risk: the inverse is actually true. What happened recently? Have people even experienced users become dumber?? If people screw up let them take responsibility for their own actions. Experience has really got nothing to do with it. It's like claiming that because you are an experienced driver, nothing can crash into your car. Java Years ago was the scourge of the day. But It was be made relatively safe. It was put in what is called a sandbox. Can't be JavaScript be altered to do the same? I suppose the Difference is That Java was created by Sun a big company. while JavaScript was created by the developers on Netscape/ Mosaic that are not around anymore. Java was always an isolated environment, and in particular applets were never intended to be able to affect the actual system. Just like almost any piece of software it has had some security problems, but they've been fixed as they've become known. Javascript is entirely different. Having said all that, for those who insist on exposing their computers to risk, of having their personal details stolen, or becoming part of botnets, then the choice should be there, but defaulted to off. They should also be criminally liable if that results in their computer becoming part of a botnet, just the same as allowing your house to be used as a base for criminal activity. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones wrote: NoOp wrote: On 12/22/2009 06:39 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: NoOp wrote: ---snip--- But apparently do not understand the risks associated with html and javascript in emails. You can of course choose to ignore the default settings SeaMonkey/about:config allows you to do that. ---snip--- JavaScript was in html mail as far as back perhaps Netscape Navigator 3.0.1.a Gold. and the h=whole time not once did I experience a Problem And I have viewed many a html or newsgroup post with JavaScript in it and not once a problem. Yet recently there is all the fear of JavaScript. Talk about something dangerous, talk about Active-X. Active-X is a lot more Dangerous than JavaScript. SeaMonkey doesn't run Active-X so the reference isn't relevant here. You've also been advocating html javascript in email for as long as I remember. I wonder how your spam rate is? Also keep in mind that you run a Mac, so the issues of something spinning up on your Mac vs that of a Windows user is perhaps different. Just because you've kept the blinders on all these years doesn't mean that html javascript in emails is a good thing. Google will certainly show you that. SM I aware doesn't use active-X, and Apple has the good since not to allow it period in their OS. But I made the reference to it because it is a far , far, far greater risk that JavaScript ever will be. Rather that take out features because a few very few consider it a Risk. Use common sense. allow the users decide. Up until it was banned there has always been a choice in the the preferences all the way back to the beginning of communicator and possibly Netscape Navigator 3.0.1.a Gold to turn it on or off. What happened recently? Have people even experienced users become dumber?? If people screw up let them take responsibility for their own actions. Java Years ago was the scourge of the day. But It was be made relatively safe. It was put in what is called a sandbox. Can't be JavaScript be altered to do the same? I suppose the Difference is That Java was created by Sun a big company. while JavaScript was created by the developers on Netscape/ Mosaic that are not around anymore. ...hmmnnn...I recall asking for some common sense some time ago...still waiting, it seems... -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
David Wilkinson wrote: Philip Chee wrote: Well it's back partially (or going to be back partially) but only for *non* mailnews content such as RSS feeds and other third party contentTabs (in Thunderbird). Yes, I think it is important to allow different settings for RSS and mailnews. Personally, I'd like to ability to turn it on/off for each subscription in Mail/News/RSS individually in the Property Pane - that would be ultimate goodness! -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
David Wilkinson wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 I don't care about Javascript in mailnews (as long as it's not on bt default), but I think that it should be possible to turn it on for RSS. I think it is on for RSS, and that's also what the first link I provided said (for news feeds JavaScript is enabled). If that's not true that's probably a bug and even then it might already be fixed on trunk (2.1pre). HTH Jens -- Jens Hatlak http://jens.hatlak.de/ SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker http://smtt.blogspot.com/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
In news:-tednwpy2ey3ra_wnz2dnuvz_qkdn...@mozilla.org, Phillip Jones pjon...@kimbanet.com wrote: Rather that take out features because a few very few consider it a Risk. Use common sense. allow the users decide. This doesn't have to do with people simply considering javascript to be a risk. It has to do with them considering a javascript implementation with no working security model to be something it would be irresponsible to ship. What happened recently? A code review which found that the security model formerly implemented for mailnews had bitrotted with no one paying attention to it for years, followed by attempts to come up with a viable security model. The attempts made some progress, but the people working on it eventually decided it wasn't worth devoting their efforts to it. -- »Q« /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / against html e-mailX http://asciiribbon.org/ / \ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: David Wilkinson wrote: Philip Chee wrote: Well it's back partially (or going to be back partially) but only for *non* mailnews content such as RSS feeds and other third party contentTabs (in Thunderbird). Yes, I think it is important to allow different settings for RSS and mailnews. Personally, I'd like to ability to turn it on/off for each subscription in Mail/News/RSS individually in the Property Pane - that would be ultimate goodness! In general I think you complain too much about minor problems with workarounds and appreciate too little of the goodness, but on this one I agree. This is my computer, I want to make the decisions about what to run and how to run it, and while I agree that javascript should be off by default, I want to enable it by service (default for all mail or all news), by source (mail account, news server, RSS feed), and by folder (newsgroup, folders filled by message filters). Actually I have a suggestion on how to do this, below the server or feed level allow js to be enabled on a per-message basis in message filters. So I can enable for just some small number of people I trust, or one mailing list, or whatever. Total flexibility with minimal code to maintain. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Daniel wrote: One wonders why there is that screen warning about fiddling with about:config, if the average user is now expected to do things in about:config?? Doing things in about:config is like fiddling with the registry in Windows. It has the potential for vast changes in behavior, good, bad, and unexpected. I have no problem with the warning, if it scares off someone who should be scared off, good. If it prevents one you never told me whine on the list, good on that too. I would like a command line option for reset config to default to tell users about. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
NoOp wrote: about:config javascript.allow.mailnews;false set to true. You might want to look into prefbar; it essentially is a front end (and more) to about:config settings. You can add your own buttons, and could add a button to toggle that setting with a single click. http://prefbar.mozdev.org/ It's the first thing that I install in SeaMonkey. Also see: http://prefbar.mozdev.org/help/ Thank you. Something I knew had to be there but never took the time to find. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: Just been looking over the user options between the two, and I have to say that as far as the user is concerned, 1.1.18 had/has far more user flexibility for configuration, far more informative dialog boxes, buttons I could actually use, and with few exceptions behaved as I wanted it to... I went to 2.0 the day RSS was added, and I have had few problems (I keep the tar ball for a stable version handy in case an upgrade sucks). With two exceptions I have had no issues which I consider major, the bad to awful support for multiple profile conversion and the lack of a meaningful forms manager have stopped me from going to 2.0 on a few machines. There was one bug of note, the problem with authenticating nntp servers, that eventually got fixed after people got tired of posting bs here about it being set up wrong. ...and then there's the missing Form Manager. I didn't/don't use the Form Manager, but after looking it over in 1.1.18 I'm beginning to wonder why - the only shortcoming I can find is that I can't tell if the user option for encrypt vs obscure also pertains to information stored in the Form Manager...which is probably the only reason I can think of as to why I've never used it. If/when the Form Manager is returned, encrypting it's contents should be implemented if it wasn't previously. And the user should be informed of the specifics and applicability of any encryption scheme employed within the text in the associated function's dialog boxes. Given a need for options, functionality, and features, I seriously doubt I'll be upgrading my G4 and Intel iMac machines from SM 1.1.18 anytime soon. And I may just go back and downgrade my G5 iMac...one experimental installation is enough for me. I can't imagine running 1.1.xx on any new machine (I set up 4-5/month) unless it was tasked for filling in forms. And when I get the time from other bugs in other programs and writing a book, I will really test drive the two extensions I have had people suggest to me. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus schrieb: Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: Martin Freitag wrote: Afaik Mail/News does not execute Javacript in SM2, so you turn it on/off for the browser individually ;-) Yes - that's my point. There are some digital art groups I subscribe to where I'd like to have it on...SM 1.1.18 allowed me to choose - now I can't. You're saying you really getting Mails with Javascripts? I never saw that. What are those scripts doing in an email? not knowing just what form of encryption is being applied where and to what Browser? MailNews? Password and Forms Managers, and when storing or retaining PII in general - it was pretty clear in the past that SM 1.1.x was using strong 128 bit encryption for Password storage...in 2.x.x they dropped the notification text from the dialog, and when it comes to encryption I never assume anything - other than that if you don't specifically tell me otherwise I assume that I'm vulnerable. Hum, okay I never noticed that, I guess that could easily be fixed once a bug is filed. That's the most notable one - though I recently discovered (last night) that there's some funkiness going on with the Customization of the Taskbars too - if you select use small icons it changes both the Navigation and Personal Taskbars to small. If you then select use large icons it changes both the Navigation and Personal Taskbars to large. I cannot confirm that: http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8031/smtoolbarsmall.png http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/340/smtoolbarbig.png Tried several times, no problems switching individually. Only thing I noticed it that the personal bar won't get bigger, no matter what setting is being chosen. And I found I could only right-click up a contextual menu if I right clicked in the Navigation Taskbar - that was the confusing part; I should have been able to select either independently, I would think. That's intuitive. It is, it says settings-bla for _this_ bar and (at last for me) it behaves that way, too. regards Martin -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - http://www.asciiribbon.org/index-de.html ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
NoOp wrote: On 12/21/2009 11:12 AM, Rufus wrote: Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: Just been looking over the user options between the two, and I have to say that as far as the user is concerned, 1.1.18 had/has far more user flexibility for configuration, far more informative dialog boxes, buttons I could actually use, and with few exceptions behaved as I wanted it to... Which configuration options and buttons are missing for you now? Have you filed enhancements bugs for them? Martin Not being able to turn Javascript on for the Browser or Mail/News individually, not knowing just what form of encryption is being applied where and to what, smaller non-user friendly buttons, no Forms Manager...to name a few. about:config javascript.allow.mailnews;false set to true. All that is well and good, but far more than an average user should have to do. It's most grievous example of a user selection which was there previously and removed that I can think of - and such a simple one at that. I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. You might want to look into prefbar; it essentially is a front end (and more) to about:config settings. You can add your own buttons, and could add a button to toggle that setting with a single click. http://prefbar.mozdev.org/ It's the first thing that I install in SeaMonkey. Also see: http://prefbar.mozdev.org/help/ I'm not in the habit of using plugins, but Prefbar looks like it may have some merit...for other reasons than just the Mail/News script control. Thanks. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Leonidas Jones wrote: [JS in MailNews] As I am sure you know, but for those who do not, in about:config: javascript.allow.mailnews Set to true. That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 HTH Jens -- Jens Hatlak http://jens.hatlak.de/ SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker http://smtt.blogspot.com/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Jens Hatlak wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: [JS in MailNews] As I am sure you know, but for those who do not, in about:config: javascript.allow.mailnews Set to true. That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 HTH Jens I guess this doesn't surprise me. Just one more example of the interface not being in step with the code...now I can't trust what I see in about:config or what it actually does either? Thanks. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: /snip/ snip If Firefox/Thunderbird are harbingers of what's to become of SM due to the SM team not being able to maintain their own code content for functionality, then I'll just stick with SM 1.1.18 and call it good - like some enterprise users I know that still depend on Netscape. I've tried to get those users to upgrade from NS to SM in the past, I'm not really sure I have a reason to do that any longer. No I don't think so. Isn't the point of the SeaMonkey project to reintegrate the split projects into a workable suite? I would suggest giving it some time. It works very well for my personal use. For business use it may take a while longer. Lee No, Lee, the point of the SeaMonkey Project is (or should that be was) to continue the development of the Mozilla Suite, which was abandoned by Mozilla (org or com or whatever) once Firefox and Thunderbird had become established. Now, as SM is a volunteer enterprise, I've got no problems with the team taking the Open Source FF and TB code and incorporating them as part of the suite (no need to re-invent the wheel, here!!), but, IMHO, SM Suite should never have to become FFTB plus a few bits and pieces. And, Lee, for what it's worth, rather than just siting back bitching, I now intend to assist the SM development as much as I can. Previously, the web account I was on and, even more so, being on dial-up, restricted me from helping but now that I've gone wireless, I have a greater ability to help out with smoke-testing (whatever that is) new releases and dual-booting Win7 and Mandriva Linux, I hope I will be able to do some cross platform comparision work, just as you do! Daniel ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: NoOp wrote: On 12/21/2009 11:12 AM, Rufus wrote: Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: snip about:config javascript.allow.mailnews;false set to true. All that is well and good, but far more than an average user should have to do. It's most grievous example of a user selection which was there previously and removed that I can think of - and such a simple one at that. I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. One wonders why there is that screen warning about fiddling with about:config, if the average user is now expected to do things in about:config?? Daniel ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Jens Hatlak wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: [JS in MailNews] As I am sure you know, but for those who do not, in about:config: javascript.allow.mailnews Set to true. That won't have any effect. JS in MailNews is gone for good: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Javascript.allow.mailnews The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 HTH Jens That's mosst unfortunate, but thanks for the information. Lee ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Daniel wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: /snip/ snip If Firefox/Thunderbird are harbingers of what's to become of SM due to the SM team not being able to maintain their own code content for functionality, then I'll just stick with SM 1.1.18 and call it good - like some enterprise users I know that still depend on Netscape. I've tried to get those users to upgrade from NS to SM in the past, I'm not really sure I have a reason to do that any longer. No I don't think so. Isn't the point of the SeaMonkey project to reintegrate the split projects into a workable suite? I would suggest giving it some time. It works very well for my personal use. For business use it may take a while longer. Lee No, Lee, the point of the SeaMonkey Project is (or should that be was) to continue the development of the Mozilla Suite, which was abandoned by Mozilla (org or com or whatever) once Firefox and Thunderbird had become established. Now, as SM is a volunteer enterprise, I've got no problems with the team taking the Open Source FF and TB code and incorporating them as part of the suite (no need to re-invent the wheel, here!!), but, IMHO, SM Suite should never have to become FFTB plus a few bits and pieces. And, Lee, for what it's worth, rather than just siting back bitching, I now intend to assist the SM development as much as I can. Previously, the web account I was on and, even more so, being on dial-up, restricted me from helping but now that I've gone wireless, I have a greater ability to help out with smoke-testing (whatever that is) new releases and dual-booting Win7 and Mandriva Linux, I hope I will be able to do some cross platform comparision work, just as you do! Daniel Bravo, Daniel. First encouraging words I've heard since 2.x was released! -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/22/2009 05:10 PM, NoOp wrote: On 12/22/2009 05:04 PM, NoOp wrote: On 12/22/2009 02:02 PM, Jens Hatlak wrote: ... The reason that the pref is still appearing in about:config is that the relevant patch applies against core code which follows different time schedules. The pref will be removed from about:config in SeaMonkey 2.1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=248280 Actually it's still there. Whether or not it still works I don't know as I don't accept email with html javascript. However, this seems to tie back to: Sorry, I read 2.1 as 2.0.1. My apologies. And checking from: Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.3a1pre) Gecko/20091222 Lightning/1.1a1pre SeaMonkey/2.1a1pre I see that the option is no longer there. Again, apologies to Jen. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
NoOp wrote: ---snip--- But apparently do not understand the risks associated with html and javascript in emails. You can of course choose to ignore the default settings SeaMonkey/about:config allows you to do that. ---snip--- JavaScript was in html mail as far as back perhaps Netscape Navigator 3.0.1.a Gold. and the h=whole time not once did I experience a Problem And I have viewed many a html or newsgroup post with JavaScript in it and not once a problem. Yet recently there is all the fear of JavaScript. Talk about something dangerous, talk about Active-X. Active-X is a lot more Dangerous than JavaScript. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/22/2009 06:39 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: NoOp wrote: ---snip--- But apparently do not understand the risks associated with html and javascript in emails. You can of course choose to ignore the default settings SeaMonkey/about:config allows you to do that. ---snip--- JavaScript was in html mail as far as back perhaps Netscape Navigator 3.0.1.a Gold. and the h=whole time not once did I experience a Problem And I have viewed many a html or newsgroup post with JavaScript in it and not once a problem. Yet recently there is all the fear of JavaScript. Talk about something dangerous, talk about Active-X. Active-X is a lot more Dangerous than JavaScript. SeaMonkey doesn't run Active-X so the reference isn't relevant here. You've also been advocating html javascript in email for as long as I remember. I wonder how your spam rate is? Also keep in mind that you run a Mac, so the issues of something spinning up on your Mac vs that of a Windows user is perhaps different. Just because you've kept the blinders on all these years doesn't mean that html javascript in emails is a good thing. Google will certainly show you that. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/22/2009 08:37 PM, NoOp wrote: On 12/22/2009 06:39 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: NoOp wrote: ---snip--- But apparently do not understand the risks associated with html and javascript in emails. You can of course choose to ignore the default settings SeaMonkey/about:config allows you to do that. ---snip--- JavaScript was in html mail as far as back perhaps Netscape Navigator 3.0.1.a Gold. and the h=whole time not once did I experience a Problem And I have viewed many a html or newsgroup post with JavaScript in it and not once a problem. Yet recently there is all the fear of JavaScript. Talk about something dangerous, talk about Active-X. Active-X is a lot more Dangerous than JavaScript. SeaMonkey doesn't run Active-X so the reference isn't relevant here. You've also been advocating html javascript in email for as long as I remember. I wonder how your spam rate is? Also keep in mind that you run a Mac, so the issues of something spinning up on your Mac vs that of a Windows user is perhaps different. Just because you've kept the blinders on all these years doesn't mean that html javascript in emails is a good thing. Google will certainly show you that. Sorry, forgot to add: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html#IV-A-9 (you do know who cert is... right?) quote 10. Disable scripting features in email programs Because many email programs use the same code as web browsers to display HTML, vulnerabilities that affect ActiveX, Java, and JavaScript are often applicable to email as well as web pages. Therefore, in addition to disabling scripting features in web browsers (see Disable Java, JavaScript, and ActiveX if possible, above), we recommend that users also disable these features in their email programs. /quote Rufus may have some reason to want to enable javascript in emails, but if so I'd posit that he's working in an environment that is pretty unstable. My recommendation to him (and you) is to find another email client be done with it. I'm sure that both of you Mac users have alternatives... just do it. Simple as that. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
NoOp wrote: On 12/22/2009 08:37 PM, NoOp wrote: On 12/22/2009 06:39 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: NoOp wrote: ---snip--- But apparently do not understand the risks associated with html and javascript in emails. You can of course choose to ignore the default settings SeaMonkey/about:config allows you to do that. ---snip--- JavaScript was in html mail as far as back perhaps Netscape Navigator 3.0.1.a Gold. and the h=whole time not once did I experience a Problem And I have viewed many a html or newsgroup post with JavaScript in it and not once a problem. Yet recently there is all the fear of JavaScript. Talk about something dangerous, talk about Active-X. Active-X is a lot more Dangerous than JavaScript. SeaMonkey doesn't run Active-X so the reference isn't relevant here. You've also been advocating html javascript in email for as long as I remember. I wonder how your spam rate is? Also keep in mind that you run a Mac, so the issues of something spinning up on your Mac vs that of a Windows user is perhaps different. Just because you've kept the blinders on all these years doesn't mean that html javascript in emails is a good thing. Google will certainly show you that. Sorry, forgot to add: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html#IV-A-9 (you do know who cert is... right?) quote 10. Disable scripting features in email programs Because many email programs use the same code as web browsers to display HTML, vulnerabilities that affect ActiveX, Java, and JavaScript are often applicable to email as well as web pages. Therefore, in addition to disabling scripting features in web browsers (see Disable Java, JavaScript, and ActiveX if possible, above), we recommend that users also disable these features in their email programs. /quote Rufus may have some reason to want to enable javascript in emails, but if so I'd posit that he's working in an environment that is pretty unstable. My recommendation to him (and you) is to find another email client be done with it. I'm sure that both of you Mac users have alternatives... just do it. Simple as that. ...yeah...most artists are unstable. You just have to accept that and deal with it. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: Just been looking over the user options between the two, and I have to say that as far as the user is concerned, 1.1.18 had/has far more user flexibility for configuration, far more informative dialog boxes, buttons I could actually use, and with few exceptions behaved as I wanted it to... Which configuration options and buttons are missing for you now? Have you filed enhancements bugs for them? Martin Not being able to turn Javascript on for the Browser or Mail/News individually, not knowing just what form of encryption is being applied where and to what, smaller non-user friendly buttons, no Forms Manager...to name a few. I've already been informed that things like the Forms Manager are dead and gone for good. And yes - I've filed a bug about the small buttons, but the individual who put them there doesn't seem inclined to correct his mistake. As for the info in the dialog boxes - I plan to submit bugs, but I'm still contemplating just how to write them and for which dialog boxes. Or if it's even worth the effort given the state of the roadblocking going on over the small button issue. I'm already looking for and trying alternatives to SM - I looked at Firefox on the Mac last night...totally unsuitable, given how much I like what I get with SM 1.1.18. If Firefox/Thunderbird are harbingers of what's to become of SM due to the SM team not being able to maintain their own code content for functionality, then I'll just stick with SM 1.1.18 and call it good - like some enterprise users I know that still depend on Netscape. I've tried to get those users to upgrade from NS to SM in the past, I'm not really sure I have a reason to do that any longer. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus schrieb: Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: Just been looking over the user options between the two, and I have to say that as far as the user is concerned, 1.1.18 had/has far more user flexibility for configuration, far more informative dialog boxes, buttons I could actually use, and with few exceptions behaved as I wanted it to... Which configuration options and buttons are missing for you now? Have you filed enhancements bugs for them? Martin Not being able to turn Javascript on for the Browser or Mail/News individually, Afaik Mail/News does not execute Javacript in SM2, so you turn it on/off for the browser individually ;-) not knowing just what form of encryption is being applied where and to what Browser? MailNews? smaller non-user friendly buttons, This only targets the progress window of downloads, right? I haven't seen other buttons shrinking in SM2 that much. no Forms Manager...to name a few. This is no button and no preference ;-) (though I know many people are missing it of course) I've already been informed that things like the Forms Manager are dead and gone for good. Only until someone steps in to develop one. Martin -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - http://www.asciiribbon.org/index-de.html ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
