Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
C.E. Forman wrote: Worse, he got screwed out of a great item he really wanted, which he won fair and square, and which he'll probably never find at that price again. It's more that than the money. Yes, but it's not nearly as damaging, as most things in Real Life are. Remember, it's just a hobby. A fun one; one we're dedicated to. But in the end -- and I'll paraphrase Dani Berry here -- nobody ever said on their deathbed, I wish I had collected more software. When you get screwed out of $800 you can bitch, but not $40. Interesting. Where exactly is the financial cutoff point between being allowed and not being allowed to bitch? When it's more money than I've lost. ;-) There are other measures, like when it's more money than dinner and a movie or other disposable dollar values; $40 is just within that value. If Dave ever took his wife or girlfriend out to dinner and a movie, he spent just about that much money. $800 isn't disposable; $40 is. Just my $0.02 ;-) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
C.E. Forman wrote: I certainly wouldn't hold it against you. Actually I'd feel a bit guilty taking a mint saucer for $10 (not to mention worried about getting screwed over... witness the misfortune Dave Aston went through when he used BuyItNow on a Suspended mask for $5.00). Huh?? Please explain -- I'm unfamiliar with this and would love to know what happened. I've outsniped friends, I've been outsniped by friends. I've never held a grudge over losing an auction. You guys are great. I *love* being able to call you my close friends. But I am first and foremost a collector. I was a collector before I met all of you, and a collector I will always remain. As a collector, my Prime Directive is to complete my own collection. B-) Of course, there are self-imposed barriers against using tactics such as thievery, fraud, etc., to accomplish this goal. But sniping is not one of them. :-) I think the best practice is I'm planning on bidding on this one and both parties can work it out between themselves. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
C.E. Forman wrote: (glances sideways at C. E. Forman) Well, *almost* all of us... ;-) Heh, I totally deserve this. B-) But it does beg the question... Is it not equally greedy of the rest of the abandonware scene to just *expect* me to open my prize shrinkwrap, taking a chance that the disk has already gone bad and that I will end up with nothing to show for it? Of course not. But sometime in the future, maybe far, far into the future, you will have two copies of this. It is *then* that your color and substance will be measured. ;-) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
I certainly wouldn't hold it against you. Actually I'd feel a bit guilty taking a mint saucer for $10 (not to mention worried about getting screwed over... witness the misfortune Dave Aston went through when he used BuyItNow on a Suspended mask for $5.00). Huh?? Please explain -- I'm unfamiliar with this and would love to know what happened. Shoppe column, Jim. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
C.E. Forman wrote: I certainly wouldn't hold it against you. Actually I'd feel a bit guilty taking a mint saucer for $10 (not to mention worried about getting screwed over... witness the misfortune Dave Aston went through when he used BuyItNow on a Suspended mask for $5.00). Huh?? Please explain -- I'm unfamiliar with this and would love to know what happened. Shoppe column, Jim. Just finished reading it. Maybe I'm under-reacting, but it looked as if the promise of a Suspended mask forced Dave to throw good money after bad. By the 2nd month I would've obviously given up. He got screwed for $40 and about 6 hours (total) of his time -- that's unfortunate, but he should consider himself lucky. I got screwed out of $800 once, so forgive me if his comments sounds more like bitching and overreacting than anything else. When you get screwed out of $800 you can bitch, but not $40. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Just finished reading it. Maybe I'm under-reacting, but it looked as if the promise of a Suspended mask forced Dave to throw good money after bad. By the 2nd month I would've obviously given up. He got screwed for $40 and about 6 hours (total) of his time -- that's unfortunate, but he should consider himself lucky. I got screwed out of $800 once, so forgive me if his comments sounds more like bitching and overreacting than anything else. Worse, he got screwed out of a great item he really wanted, which he won fair and square, and which he'll probably never find at that price again. It's more that than the money. When you get screwed out of $800 you can bitch, but not $40. Interesting. Where exactly is the financial cutoff point between being allowed and not being allowed to bitch? -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Jim Leonard wrote: Hugh Falk wrote: Just for the record. Chris and I both sniped about the same time (just a few seconds left). I ended up winning because my max bid was higher. Like Jim said, that's what it really came down to. Isn't that all it ever comes down to? It's not quite that simple. I can't remember the exact values, but let's look at the two possible scenarios: a) The highest bid was at $90. At the same time Hugh snipes for $200, Chris for $190. RESULT: Hugh takes the cake for $191 b) The highest bid was at $90. Some days before, Hugh spots the auction and lets Chris know he's going for it. Chris hadn't noticed that auction before Hugh pointed it out, so he drops it on Hugh's behalf. Hugh snipes for $200. RESULT: Hugh takes the cake for $91 So that's a $100 difference. Now, at least where I live, $100 more at the end of the month makes a hell of a lot of a difference... Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Sniping
True, that would have made the deal even better (As it is, I kept the games, including the Starcross saucer, and sold the rest for about $600 more than what I paid for it all). However, reserving a bid isn't always the right thing to do either. I'll use myself as the example: Let's say you tell me about a lot you plan to bid on. I hadn't seen it yet. So according to your plan I should back off. However, I run a standard series of searches once a week, and let's say it would have found that lot as well. Does that mean I should back off just because you found it a couple of days before I did? I don't think so. That is less fair than sniping. Especially since there is nothing wrong with sniping. There are only three types of people that are negatively affected by sniping: 1) Buyers who don't really put their maximum bid on the line. If you try to get a title at a bargain, and aren't willing to pony up your true maximum, you are likely to get out-sniped. Solution -- put your true maximum, then you don't have to worry about snipers. You'll either get it, or it would have cost more than you were willing to pay. This is also true when sniping. 2) Sellers. You can argue that sniping lowers the chance of inflating the price above normal auction value. When two hard-headed people get into a price war over an item it is good for the seller. Sniping also keeps the seller in the dark until the very end, causing them to be nervous about how much they will make. However, this is the nature of auctions in the real world as well. You never know what you're getting until the hammer drops. Solution -- as a seller, I say none necessary. 3) Ebay stock holders -- when items sell for more, Ebay earns more commission. Solution -- I'll leave that to eBay to figure out. Sniping is a good tool for buyers, and you should learn to use it. Regards, Hugh -Original Message- From: Pedro Quaresma [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Sniping Jim Leonard wrote: Hugh Falk wrote: Just for the record. Chris and I both sniped about the same time (just a few seconds left). I ended up winning because my max bid was higher. Like Jim said, that's what it really came down to. Isn't that all it ever comes down to? It's not quite that simple. I can't remember the exact values, but let's look at the two possible scenarios: a) The highest bid was at $90. At the same time Hugh snipes for $200, Chris for $190. RESULT: Hugh takes the cake for $191 b) The highest bid was at $90. Some days before, Hugh spots the auction and lets Chris know he's going for it. Chris hadn't noticed that auction before Hugh pointed it out, so he drops it on Hugh's behalf. Hugh snipes for $200. RESULT: Hugh takes the cake for $91 So that's a $100 difference. Now, at least where I live, $100 more at the end of the month makes a hell of a lot of a difference... Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Sniping
Hugh Falk wrote: True, that would have made the deal even better (As it is, I kept the games, including the Starcross saucer, and sold the rest for about $600 more than what I paid for it all). However, reserving a bid isn't always the right thing to do either. I'll use myself as the example: Let's say you tell me about a lot you plan to bid on. I hadn't seen it yet. So according to your plan I should back off. However, I run a standard series of searches once a week, and let's say it would have found that lot as well. Does that mean I should back off just because you found it a couple of days before I did? I don't think so. Oh, I think it is. It was either our very own Tom Hlavaty or another collector (R.J. Pickles, I don't think he's on the list) who taught me that bidding Code of Honor for collectors. And I know it's just not me or Tom or Richard using this Code. Want an example? One other collector, who's also on the list, recently found an item we both wanted. Look Pedro: Auction #XX. Mine.. Perfectly normal, I hadn't seen it before, it had also happened the other way around before, so why worry about it? He won it, I'm happy to say it. That is less fair than sniping. Especially since there is nothing wrong with sniping. When you're sniping against someone you know/respect/are friends to, then there's something _very_ wrong with sniping. There are only three types of people that are negatively affected by sniping: 1) Buyers who don't really put their maximum bid on the line. If you try [snip] 4) Buyers who do not expect to be backstabbed. Sniping is a good tool for buyers, and you should learn to use it. Sniping is a good tool, but it's also a dangerous tool. Now I'm seriously considering the idea I mentioned before about mentioning on the sig my watched auctions. Regards, Hugh All the best, Pedro Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Pedro Quaresma wrote: b) The highest bid was at $90. Some days before, Hugh spots the auction and lets Chris know he's going for it. Chris hadn't noticed that auction before Hugh pointed it out, so he drops it on Hugh's behalf. Hugh snipes for $200. RESULT: Hugh takes the cake for $91 But that's not what I was referring to; both parties *did* want the item. My point is that, sniping or not, it all comes down to the maximum bid when more than one person wants the item. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Jim Leonard wrote: Pedro Quaresma wrote: b) The highest bid was at $90. Some days before, Hugh spots the auction and lets Chris know he's going for it. Chris hadn't noticed that auction before Hugh pointed it out, so he drops it on Hugh's behalf. Hugh snipes for $200. RESULT: Hugh takes the cake for $91 But that's not what I was referring to; both parties *did* want the item. My point is that, sniping or not, it all comes down to the maximum bid when more than one person wants the item. That's true Jim, but that was not the point of my first post. The basic idea behind my first post was: if you an item, let the others know you want it. That will avoid sniping between friends. I can even imagine a new scenario c) The highest bid was at $90. Hugh spots the auction and lets Chris know he's going for it. Chris says he'd seen it also and he wants it. They discuss it between themselves who wants it more badly. Hugh says he'll go as high as $200. Chris says he'll only go as high as $190. Chris drops out because he knows he won't win. RESULT: Hugh takes the cake for $91. (this one has also happened to me before) Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Jim Leonard wrote: Pedro Quaresma wrote: Let's say you tell me about a lot you plan to bid on. I hadn't seen it yet. So according to your plan I should back off. However, I run a standard series of searches once a week, and let's say it would have found that lot as well. Does that mean I should back off just because you found it a couple of days before I did? I don't think so. Oh, I think it is. It was either our very own Tom Hlavaty or another collector (R.J. Pickles, I don't think he's on the list) who taught me that bidding Code of Honor for collectors. And I know it's just not me or Tom or Richard using this Code. If someone informs me that they're bidding on a lot that I haven't seen before, I back off. If someone informs me that they're bidding on a lot that I *have* seen (and, most likely, already have a snipe order on), I am not going to change my plans. I will *tell* the other guy that I already have a snipe order on that item -- that I am still going to bid or have already bid -- but I will not back off of an item I always intended to bid on just because some else asks me not to. That was precisely what I said :) If you hadn't seen it before, let him have it. If you had seen it before, don't drop out. There are special cases, such as I really need this last piece to complete my Wizardry collection! or This box means I'll have a full set of box variations! or something. That's fine; I'm not cruel. But asking me to not bid on something I have already put a snipe order on is unreasonable. Sure, I agree with you 100% here. There are special cases and requests. When you're sniping against someone you know/respect/are friends to, then there's something _very_ wrong with sniping. If they asked me to not bid on something I had already seen, wouldn't they be at fault and not me? Sure, if you had already seen it. Otherwise, that was the point of my reserving idea: if, when you see the item for the first time, find out that the highest bid is mine, therefore you know I'm interested in it, so this situation is the same as the I've seen it and notified you before you've seen it, IMO. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
To Pedro: Let's assume there's a complete Akalabeth, with an unknown reserve, and a Buy It Now of $400. You place a bid, but the reserve isn't met. Now, would I hesitate to use BIN? Oh no. To me the game is worth that much, and I would buy it right away, even though you 'reserved' it by placing a bid. I have been clashing with other collectors on eBay before (Dan comes to mind), and it was a fun experience. No hurt feelings if someone outbids me (they obviously value the item more than I do). Thing is, if you do sniping right (e.g. bidding the absolute most that you're willing to pay), you can't lose! You either win the item, or someone else gets it for a price that you feel is not acceptable anymore. And there will still be enough bargains in between, even if a particular auction ends close to the maximum you are willing to pay. /Alexander -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Alexander Zoller wrote: To Pedro: Let's assume there's a complete Akalabeth, with an unknown reserve, and a Buy It Now of $400. You place a bid, but the reserve isn't met. Now, would I hesitate to use BIN? Oh no. To me the game is worth that much, and I would buy it right away, even though you 'reserved' it by placing a bid. I wouldn't. I simply cannot decide whether to go or not against friends based on how much I want something. There is no price for friendship or respect from a friend collector :) If you'd found it, placed a high bid not meeting the reserve price, and I really wanted it (and found it after your bid), I would most probably mail you first saying I'm interested in the item, mind if I go in, I'm willing to go as high as $, etc. If you wanted it badly too, I'd drop out. I have been clashing with other collectors on eBay before (Dan comes to mind), and it was a fun experience. No hurt feelings if someone outbids me (they obviously value the item more than I do). Thing is, if you do sniping right (e.g. bidding the absolute most that you're willing to pay), you can't lose! Look at scenarios b) and c) from my previous mails: Hugh could have more $100 (ficticious value) than what he has now. You either win the item, or someone else gets it for a price that you feel is not acceptable anymore. And there will still be enough bargains in between, even if a particular auction ends close to the maximum you are willing to pay. Maybe that's my problem, but, for me, it's not a matter of winning or losing. I will not crawl over other collectors. Remember we're not talking about sniping against one unknown guy or other. We're talking about sniping and bidding against each other. And that, I simply refuse to do. /Alexander Before I forget: currently watching eBay auctions #1288974805 and #1288929524 :P Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Pedro Quaresma wrote: Maybe that's my problem, but, for me, it's not a matter of winning or losing. I will not crawl over other collectors. Remember we're not talking about sniping against one unknown guy or other. We're talking about sniping and bidding against each other. And that, I simply refuse to do. I think you're under the impression that most of us are backstabbing greedy hoarders that don't care about fellow collectors at all. Honestly, I think we've proven that, as a whole, we care about the hobby and community enough that that's not the case. (glances sideways at C. E. Forman) Well, *almost* all of us... ;-) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Sniping
Pedro, I don't know why you consider sniping backstabbing (see your previous e-mail). It is the most truthful method of bidding there can be. You bid what you want to pay...period. It is up front with no devious, hidden intentions. I didn't say sniping was backstabbing. I said sniping _could_ be a backstab, as in I'm going to win! I'm going to win! 3...2...1... ouch! I lost! That hurts! ;) Talk about backstabbing...that's exactly what you're proposing below. You're suggesting that Chris and I get into a private bidding war through e-mail. This becomes a huge game of poker. I say I'm willing to pay $200...but am I really? Or am I really just willing to pay $90 and want Chris to drop out? Since you're honest, and you and Chris truthfully respect each other, obviously you won't do that. If I'm willing to pay $200, I should bid $200 (by sniping or beforehand). That is the fair, up-front way to do it. Put your money where your mouth is. I've got nothing against you bidding $200 :) I just mentioned that it was possible that you'd win it for $91 instead of $191. Otherwise, it opens the door to deception and bluffing. As mentioned, I believe it's impossible that two collectors do it to each other. At least, as far as we list members are concerned. Also, it is a lot of wasted time between Chris and I haggling when somebody else could come in and bid $300. If I back off a game, and it is won by some third party, I'll be seriously upset. If you both end up finding out that Chris would've gone higher than you, and then someone beats Chris to it, then obviously he'd have beaten you too... You're under some misconception that seeing an ad on eBay entitles you to it, when in reality there are hundreds of other people out there (that you may or may not know) who have also seen it and have the same rights as you. If you want it, put your maximum bid and walk away. Wait until after it has sold to discuss it with others. Otherwise, we'll all just look for new listings the second they come out and send an e-mail to this group...mine. Even then, some third party not-in the group could likely win it, and you would be depriving the rest from making bids. Once again: I mentioned situations b) and c) because I think situations like a) can be avoided between list members. If someone guy out there I don't know is trying to get item # and I want it too, sure, I'll most probably snipe him if I can :) Hugh -Original Message- From: Pedro Quaresma [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 10:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Sniping Jim Leonard wrote: Pedro Quaresma wrote: b) The highest bid was at $90. Some days before, Hugh spots the auction and lets Chris know he's going for it. Chris hadn't noticed that auction before Hugh pointed it out, so he drops it on Hugh's behalf. Hugh snipes for $200. RESULT: Hugh takes the cake for $91 But that's not what I was referring to; both parties *did* want the item. My point is that, sniping or not, it all comes down to the maximum bid when more than one person wants the item. That's true Jim, but that was not the point of my first post. The basic idea behind my first post was: if you an item, let the others know you want it. That will avoid sniping between friends. I can even imagine a new scenario c) The highest bid was at $90. Hugh spots the auction and lets Chris know he's going for it. Chris says he'd seen it also and he wants it. They discuss it between themselves who wants it more badly. Hugh says he'll go as high as $200. Chris says he'll only go as high as $190. Chris drops out because he knows he won't win. RESULT: Hugh takes the cake for $91. (this one has also happened to me before) Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe
RE: [SWCollect] Sniping
Pedro, This is going to come across as harsh, but please don't take it that way. I'm not angry and I don't harbor any bad feelings about you, but this is the plain facts: This argument is not about stepping on friends toes or hurting feelings. This argument is about saving money. Your whole reason for bringing up this idea of reserving a lot is so it can save you money...or in the case of our example, it would have saved me money. I've lost sniping battles with Chris in the past, and there were no hurt feelings. He was willing to pay more...he deserved it. It is the same concept you propose except that instead of negotiating via e-mail (with potential for bluffing), we negotiated instantly with our bids. Whoever wants it more gets it for the price they were REALLY willing to pay. If you weren't REALLY willing to pay it, don't say that you are. The main problem with your proposal is that it only punishes the people that you know...your friends. They have to back off (not able to offer what they really want to pay for it). But all of the people that you don't know still get to bid. Your method for saving money is flawed because you can't possibly know all the players involved. There is a chance that it will work if the person you contact is the only other interested party. But there is also greater probability that your method will have no effect, or even worse, may cause hurt feelings because you excluded somebody you know and you didn't even win it yourself. It is not worth the risk or effort. Just bid what you're willing to pay, and it will all work out. Hugh -Original Message- From: Pedro Quaresma [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Sniping Alexander Zoller wrote: To Pedro: Let's assume there's a complete Akalabeth, with an unknown reserve, and a Buy It Now of $400. You place a bid, but the reserve isn't met. Now, would I hesitate to use BIN? Oh no. To me the game is worth that much, and I would buy it right away, even though you 'reserved' it by placing a bid. I wouldn't. I simply cannot decide whether to go or not against friends based on how much I want something. There is no price for friendship or respect from a friend collector :) If you'd found it, placed a high bid not meeting the reserve price, and I really wanted it (and found it after your bid), I would most probably mail you first saying I'm interested in the item, mind if I go in, I'm willing to go as high as $, etc. If you wanted it badly too, I'd drop out. I have been clashing with other collectors on eBay before (Dan comes to mind), and it was a fun experience. No hurt feelings if someone outbids me (they obviously value the item more than I do). Thing is, if you do sniping right (e.g. bidding the absolute most that you're willing to pay), you can't lose! Look at scenarios b) and c) from my previous mails: Hugh could have more $100 (ficticious value) than what he has now. You either win the item, or someone else gets it for a price that you feel is not acceptable anymore. And there will still be enough bargains in between, even if a particular auction ends close to the maximum you are willing to pay. Maybe that's my problem, but, for me, it's not a matter of winning or losing. I will not crawl over other collectors. Remember we're not talking about sniping against one unknown guy or other. We're talking about sniping and bidding against each other. And that, I simply refuse to do. /Alexander Before I forget: currently watching eBay auctions #1288974805 and #1288929524 :P Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
There is no price for friendship or respect from a friend collector :) True! You are absolutely right. I think it's hard to determine a bidding pattern or behaviour when it comes to competing with other collectors. Maybe Akalabeth was a bad example, as it's an exceptionally coveted item. There are dozens, even hundreds of less sought-after items out there that I wouldn't mind letting go if someone else requests me to do so. After all, everything will turn up on eBay again. Patience is a virtue ;-) Fact is, I often snipe an auction about 2-4 seconds before it ends, not knowing that another collector is determined to do the same, so we end up bidding against each other. It comes with the habit of practicing a rather efficient way of bidding, so to speak. /Alexander -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Sniping
Hugh, I understand your point of view, but I merely wanted to state mine. This argument isn't indeed about stepping on toes or hurting friends, because we don't do that to each other (stepping on toes may happen accidentaly, but that's it), but about saving each other serious cash. I'd like to restate that I really don't believe the potential for bluffing you mentioned is possible between list members. We're like a very close family! ;) In conclusion: I still like the reserving idea, whether by warning others or by placing a low bid. If you hadn't seen it before, it should be mine. If you had, we both run for it: that's the Way of the Collector! (tm) ;) All the best, Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish Hugh Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24-10-2001 16:52 Solicita-se resposta a swcollect Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: Assunto: RE: [SWCollect] Sniping Pedro, This is going to come across as harsh, but please don't take it that way. I'm not angry and I don't harbor any bad feelings about you, but this is the plain facts: This argument is not about stepping on friends toes or hurting feelings. This argument is about saving money. Your whole reason for bringing up this idea of reserving a lot is so it can save you money...or in the case of our example, it would have saved me money. I've lost sniping battles with Chris in the past, and there were no hurt feelings. He was willing to pay more...he deserved it. It is the same concept you propose except that instead of negotiating via e-mail (with potential for bluffing), we negotiated instantly with our bids. Whoever wants it more gets it for the price they were REALLY willing to pay. If you weren't REALLY willing to pay it, don't say that you are. The main problem with your proposal is that it only punishes the people that you know...your friends. They have to back off (not able to offer what they really want to pay for it). But all of the people that you don't know still get to bid. Your method for saving money is flawed because you can't possibly know all the players involved. There is a chance that it will work if the person you contact is the only other interested party. But there is also greater probability that your method will have no effect, or even worse, may cause hurt feelings because you excluded somebody you know and you didn't even win it yourself. It is not worth the risk or effort. Just bid what you're willing to pay, and it will all work out. Hugh -Original Message- From: Pedro Quaresma [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Sniping Alexander Zoller wrote: To Pedro: Let's assume there's a complete Akalabeth, with an unknown reserve, and a Buy It Now of $400. You place a bid, but the reserve isn't met. Now, would I hesitate to use BIN? Oh no. To me the game is worth that much, and I would buy it right away, even though you 'reserved' it by placing a bid. I wouldn't. I simply cannot decide whether to go or not against friends based on how much I want something. There is no price for friendship or respect from a friend collector :) If you'd found it, placed a high bid not meeting the reserve
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Wow, I missed a lot today. Stupid business-use-only Internet rules... Assuming the rest of you haven't already beaten the subject to death, let me add my own thoughts here. I can understand where Pedro is coming from, though I disagree with his view. Let me use an extreme example to illustrate mine: I would really like a shrinked saucer. I've lost the last three shrinked saucer auctions I've seen on eBay, because I chose not to bid as high as the winner. By your rules, the next time one goes up, I can e-mail everybody I know, call dibsies on it, and they're not allowed to bid. I end up with a mint, wrapped saucer for the minimum bid of $9.99. That's *ludicrous*! It'd be stupid to *not* outbid me in that instance. Yet by your rules, if someone does so, they're a backstabber. If I lost to you in this instance, I certainly wouldn't hold it against you. Actually I'd feel a bit guilty taking a mint saucer for $10 (not to mention worried about getting screwed over... witness the misfortune Dave Aston went through when he used BuyItNow on a Suspended mask for $5.00). And if people can get away with calling dibsies on an item before the auction is over, what's to stop them from claiming the next rare item *before* it goes up? Could I not say to all the other collectors, Hey, it's MY turn. The next shrinked saucer to go up on eBay is mine. No one else may bid on it. This would incite far, far more accusations and fights than sniping, not to mention no one would respect the request. Keeping prices down is a nice thought, as noble as they come, but not everyone is going to want to help someone get a rare item for less. It only takes one serious opponent to drive the price into the stratosphere. You can't prevent this, so why sit out because of it? Plus, the fact is, e-mailing everybody about a great auction one plans to snipe isn't a very smart thing to do. The sole tactical advantage of sniping is to avoid drawing attention to the item you want to win. Why spoil that by proclaiming the auction number to the world? If someone can't keep a secret until the auction is over, how can they reasonably expect someone else to exercise similar restraint by not bidding? The best way to keep someone from bidding on an item they don't know about would be to... not tell them in the first place! I think this all boils back down to snipers versus non-snipers. Think about it: If every one of us bid on all of our auctions in the last 10 seconds, we would never know whom we were bidding against until it was all over. No hard feelings, because any outsniping would be intentional. I'm not saying we should all adopt this method, I'm just saying, if sniping can drive *that* much of a rift between collectors, maybe their friendship wasn't all that strong to begin with. There is *always* another copy of a game out there. I've outsniped friends, I've been outsniped by friends. I've never held a grudge over losing an auction. You guys are great. I *love* being able to call you my close friends. But I am first and foremost a collector. I was a collector before I met all of you, and a collector I will always remain. As a collector, my Prime Directive is to complete my own collection. B-) Of course, there are self-imposed barriers against using tactics such as thievery, fraud, etc., to accomplish this goal. But sniping is not one of them. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
(glances sideways at C. E. Forman) Well, *almost* all of us... ;-) Heh, I totally deserve this. B-) But it does beg the question... Is it not equally greedy of the rest of the abandonware scene to just *expect* me to open my prize shrinkwrap, taking a chance that the disk has already gone bad and that I will end up with nothing to show for it? Think about it, won't you? Thank you. B-) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
1) Buyers who don't really put their maximum bid on the line. If you try to get a title at a bargain, and aren't willing to pony up your true maximum, you are likely to get out-sniped. Solution -- put your true maximum, then you don't have to worry about snipers. You'll either get it, or it would have cost more than you were willing to pay. This is also true when sniping. Very true, all of this. One thing I'd like to mention, though, about true maximum bids, is that there's always a bit of a grey area around them. Say I bid (in advance) $400.05, and you come along and try to snipe at the last second with $400.01. I had the highest bid, you lose by 4 cents. And naturally, you're PISSED. Would you have gone $400.06 knowing you'd win? Almost certainly. When you're dealing with increments in pennies, or, as is admittedly more often the case, a dollar at a time, it's very hard to set an absolute cutoff point. There's always the chance you'd consider going just one dollar higher. Especially after you've just lost, there's a definite psychological impact to losing a great auction. I suspect this is why so many snipe victims feel cheated and outraged. The final tally shows they were outbid by a dollar, but because of proxy bidding the winner may have gone anywhere from $1 to $1 million higher. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Now what do I mean by reserving an auction? First, my most (and not mine only) important policy: I never bid against friends, period. I usually reserve my auctions by making a low bid (I'm not famous, so I'm sure nobody stalks my name), then going for a snipe when/if possible. Optionally, if I'm trading emails with someone, I let them know Look, I found item number #99, looks very nice, and I'm going for it, and therefore I know that person won't bid against me. This can work, but it assumes the other person is willing to hold off sniping. Personally, if someone points out a great auction to me, I'll usually hold off if they want me to. But if I've been watching something for days, and someone comes along and says PLEASE don't bid on this!!!, I'm not going to change plans, especially if it's something I've been after for a long time. This isn't fair to me, trying to lay a guilt-trip, so I've vowed not to let it work. Ditto if someone I know bids on an item I've been watching for days, wanting for awhile, and was planning to snipe anyway. Sure, if you've also seen it before someone says please don't bid, it's acceptable to run against him (although I'd say you should mention that to him, and I'm sure you do). But you know it's easy to find a good deal that nobody else has spotted, so you can use the reserve plug for those cases. I guess I'll start including, on my signature to this mailing list, the auctions I'm following ;) Consider yourselves warned. B-) Well, if you ever go on an auction I reserved because you've spotted it too, make sure you reserve it too (with a bid $.01 above mine) instead of sniping me, or else I'll tell your address to the Vogons! :) Pedro PS: When will you be auctioning your Dark Heart of Uukrul for $1? 0:) Pedro R. Quaresma [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] So long, and thanks for all the fish http://www.salvador-caetano.pt http://www.globalshop.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Pedro Quaresma wrote: Sniping is very useful indeed. Most probably will save you a lot of money and, as Chris mentioned, will prevent others from stalking your username. But... Consider for example the amount of cash that Hugh (IIRC it was Hugh) lost for that Apple auction because Chris sniped him some seconds later! Now that wouldn't have happened if either one had reserved the auction by any means. I consider this not a problem with sniping but rather a problem with Hugh's bid, which wasn't high enough. I've concluded, through 6 week's research :-) that sniping doesn't change anything fundamental: it still comes down to whose maximum bid is higher. If Chris's wasn't higher than Hugh's, sniping or not Hugh would have won. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
C.E. Forman wrote: Consider yourselves warned. B-) No skin off my back. Like I said, it all comes down to maximum bids. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Sniping
Just for the record. Chris and I both sniped about the same time (just a few seconds left). I ended up winning because my max bid was higher. Like Jim said, that's what it really came down to. Best regards, Hugh -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 3:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Sniping Pedro Quaresma wrote: Sniping is very useful indeed. Most probably will save you a lot of money and, as Chris mentioned, will prevent others from stalking your username. But... Consider for example the amount of cash that Hugh (IIRC it was Hugh) lost for that Apple auction because Chris sniped him some seconds later! Now that wouldn't have happened if either one had reserved the auction by any means. I consider this not a problem with sniping but rather a problem with Hugh's bid, which wasn't high enough. I've concluded, through 6 week's research :-) that sniping doesn't change anything fundamental: it still comes down to whose maximum bid is higher. If Chris's wasn't higher than Hugh's, sniping or not Hugh would have won. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Hugh Falk wrote: Just for the record. Chris and I both sniped about the same time (just a few seconds left). I ended up winning because my max bid was higher. Like Jim said, that's what it really came down to. Isn't that all it ever comes down to? -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Sniping
Wow, we have a total difference of opinion on the value (meaning market value) of this lot. Of course there's a few things I know that you don't about it. 1) It's within driving distance...so no shipping charges. 2) It includes a Starcross saucer in VG/F condition (most people would call it F/F, but I'm very critical). This alone makes it worth the price. 3) Throw in original folio versions of Mission Asteroid, Wizard and Princess, Zork, The Prisoner and Time Zone and this lot is worth much more. There are other games of lesser value as well. 4) The Apple II is just in stellar condition. The nicest I've ever seen truthfully, complete with boxes, etc. the last time I sold one similar to this (not as nice actually) it sold for over $500. That was about 2 years ago though and I don't expect to get that much for this one. But complete in boxes is VERY important in hardware value. 5) They also sold me (because I called and asked) a complete collection of byte magazines -- from #1 to the last one published with all special issues...about 280 magazines in total. I am keeping the ones with game-related material and selling the rest. Depending on the timing and luck, I will make about $500 - $1000 on the mags alone. Aside from the games and the 20 or so magazines that I'm keeping, everything else is going on eBay. This lot is the most valuable lot in the world to me! Because I'm getting some truly exquisite games, and I should make a profit in the process. When all is said and done, I hope to make about $1000 in total and get the games for free on top of that. Of course I realize it is up to the eBay fates and that figure could range from $10 profit to $2000 profit. Either way I get the games :-) I will keep you all posted about my progress just as an experiment in eBay success or failure. I have many little rules to selling success on eBay (as I'm sure most of you do). The first one is never sell anything in the summer before labor day. eBay is much slower during this time (great for buyers, bad for sellers of course). So these items aren't going up for a few more days. I'll keep you posted. Hugh -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Sniping Hugh Falk wrote: Speaking of more sniping. Here's one C.E. and I both sniped recently. He lives even more dangerously than I...he bid 1 second later than me (6 seconds before close) :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1260285866 However, if he wasn't involved, I could have saved a couple hundred bucks :-( Geezus, you *both* paid too much for this. I value the entire thing at $250, tops. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Chris Newman wrote: My peak lunacy was bidding $2500 for a flown-to-the-moon flag, framed by the crew of Apollo XIV. Fortunately I was outbid... What did it finally go for? My birthdate is August 1st, 1971. For bonus points, can you tell me what Apollo-related date of significance that is? -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Chris Newman boldly stated: My peak lunacy Ouch, bad pun! was bidding $2500 for a flown-to-the-moon flag, framed by the crew of Apollo XIV. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: Vintage Pac-M*n necktie (The asterisk is to keep from mucking up people's Usenet search results. Replace it with an a, if you didn't know.) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
C.E. Forman wrote: How did you get your bid in exactly 3 seconds before auction end? Because I'm very, very good. B-) Actually I just do the standard procedure: Two windows open, one with a place bid button at the ready, the second my refresh window (with graphics turned off so it loads faster). Hit Ctrl-R repeatedly in the last minute, switch windows and click when it gets down to about 10 seconds. Sometimes there's a bit of a lag, so you cut it a few seconds closer than planned. I've actually had my bid time be the EXACT second the auction closed, and I still won. (Runner-up was PISSED! B-) There are snipe services, such as VRane.com and eSnipe.com, that will connect to eBay a specified number of seconds before the auction's close and bid on your behalf. You have to give them your user ID and password, though, plus you're relying on their servers being up in addition to eBay's. Personally I only use these if I'm not going to be home when the auction closes. I enjoy the heart-ramming adrenaline high you can only get from sniping in person. Good grief! I asked the question tongue-in-cheek because I was half expecting you to report which service (esnipe, etc.) you used. As frequently happens, I was very surprised by your answer. :-) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
C.E. Forman wrote: There are snipe services, such as VRane.com and eSnipe.com, that will I bought 500 points on eSnipe last night and started a watch on two items. connect to eBay a specified number of seconds before the auction's close and bid on your behalf. You have to give them your user ID and password, though, plus you're relying on their servers being up in addition to eBay's. Personally I only use these if I'm not going to be home when the auction closes. I enjoy the heart-ramming adrenaline high you can only get from sniping in person. I don't (my high is *winning* the auction ;-) so I think I'll just merge my existing practices with sniping and be done with all the stress. :) BTW: I tried AuctionTamer last night and was pretty impressed. It still doesn't do some things that would help me specifically (like automatically running an arbitrary number of searches every time I start it up) but does do some nice things like automatically interact with esnipe -- and when I use up my points with esnipe, it has its own built-in sniping that is free (I have DSL so my machine is always on and connected, so this is great for me -- wish I hadn't spent the money on esnipe points). It also automates some common tasks, like leave feedback reminders and some other stuff that I'll explore in more detail tonight. Let's hope your little education on sniping proves true (or, as Hugh Falk puts it, 100% guaranteed) because I'm sniping 2 things that I had previously gotten into long drawn out bidding wars with some people -- and guess what, they've already placed their bids on the same items. I'll keep you guys posted on whether or not my first official sniping practices work out for me. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Jim Leonard wrote: Chris Newman wrote: My peak lunacy was bidding $2500 for a flown-to-the-moon flag, framed by the crew of Apollo XIV. Fortunately I was outbid... What did it finally go for? I think it sold for close to $3000. What makes it tragic, and also a good indication of how newbies are vulnerable on ebay, is the condition. The scum seller included a picture of the item, from about 2 feet away at an oblique angle. You could not make out any detail. I e-mailed him asking for a close-up picture. He sent one blurry shot from a foot away, and at a 45 degree angle. You could not make out any detail. So I called him: Hi, I'm calling about your Apollo XIV flag you have for sale on ebay. (Silence) Oh. How did you get my number? It's a service ebay has, in case you need to ask questions. (More silence). Mmm. I was wondering if I could see the item before I bought it. I know you're based in Florida, and I'm in New York, but for such a high-value item it might be worth a trip. (TOTAL silence -- does not encourage my halting request to see the thing). The conversation went on a little longer. Afterwards, ignoring the warning bells giving me a migraine from all the clanging, I made my bid. Afterwards I wrote the winner to asked how he liked it. The item was is such BAD shape he actually created an auction of the same item -- not to sell it -- but to show the world what he paid three grand for. The frame was rotted, the statement of authenticity signed by the crew was covered with moth holes, as was the flag, and the flag was stained! It looked like it was baked in the Florida sunlight for 30 years. Gr! My birthdate is August 1st, 1971. For bonus points, can you tell me what Apollo-related date of significance that is? Hmmm, well 13 was in April 1970, and 17 was in December 1972. That leaves 14,15,16. 14 was delayed about 10 months because of the accident, so I'll guess that it was when Apollo XV touched down on Hadley Rille? I'm bad with dates. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Chris Newman wrote: what he paid three grand for. The frame was rotted, the statement of authenticity signed by the crew was covered with moth holes, as was the flag, and the flag was stained! It looked like it was baked in the Florida sunlight for 30 years. Aren't you glad you lost the bid then? BTW: An update for the rest of you: I did eventually get my sound card from the guy who had extremely poor communication skills. He mailed it IN IT'S ORIGINAL BOX with just some mailing labels slapped on the outside of the shrinkwrap. Argh! However, lucky for him, it arrived in astonishingly good condition, so I left him a neutral instead of a negative. My birthdate is August 1st, 1971. For bonus points, can you tell me what Apollo-related date of significance that is? Hmmm, well 13 was in April 1970, and 17 was in December 1972. That leaves 14,15,16. 14 was delayed about 10 months because of the accident, so I'll guess that it was when Apollo XV touched down on Hadley Rille? I'm bad with dates. It was the first use of the moon buggy on the surface of the moon! -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Chris Newman wrote: Speaking of sniping... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1266370886 How did you get your bid in exactly 3 seconds before auction end? -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Hugh Falk wrote: Speaking of more sniping. Here's one C.E. and I both sniped recently. He lives even more dangerously than I...he bid 1 second later than me (6 seconds before close) :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1260285866 However, if he wasn't involved, I could have saved a couple hundred bucks :-( Geezus, you *both* paid too much for this. I value the entire thing at $250, tops. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Jim Leonard boldly stated: It sounds like you run a lot of searches. Ebay will only let me store 15 saved searches; is there any way to queue up a lot of searches (more than 15) and run them every few days? I used to maintain a private page at my web site for eBay searches. It consisted of a pulldown with a description of my search terms, a checkbox for searching descriptions or not, and a button to execute the search. (It also had some other eBay-related links stuff on it, but the above was the heart of it.) I loaded in a small frame across the top and targeted it to the main area below. I haven't had much time for eBay lately, but I think it's up to date with their current search forms. I can send it to you (or post it here), if anyone's interested. 4.) eBay provides a feature allowing you to save up to 15 searches. Use it, and use it well. For instance, searching on (infocom,zork,ultima,akalabeth,serenia,cranston,softporn,drash) will turn up the best collectible games in one decisive blow, and you still get 14 more searches after that. A comma is the seperator??? What a bizarre system. I'll read up more on the search syntax. Thanks! Gee, Jim, you've been using eBay *how* long? I guess it's safe to say you're not hard core (yet). More specifically, ORs are done by enclosing a comma separated list of words in parentheses (sp?). ANDs are done just by listing words separated by spaces. (But be sure not to put spaces on either side of the commas in your ORs!) For example, (q bert,qbert) will find auctions with qbert, q and bert, and even q*bert. (It turns out some characters, like * are treated as a word separator, so Q*bert, Q-bert, and Q Bert all match a search on q bert.) BTW, this reminds me of another eBay search feature. They limit the number of characters you can enter in their search forms. But if you use a custom page like mine, you can enter longer searches. Particularly useful for entering a long list of words NOT to include (e.g. (q bert,qbert) -(atari,colecovision,2600,Nintendo,NES,SNES,PC,playstation,dreamcast,gameboy,game boy)). -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: Vintage Pac-M*n necktie (The asterisk is to keep from mucking up people's Usenet search results. Replace it with an a, if you didn't know.) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Lee K. Seitz wrote: I haven't had much time for eBay lately, but I think it's up to date with their current search forms. I can send it to you (or post it here), if anyone's interested. I'd be curious to see it, thanks. 4.) eBay provides a feature allowing you to save up to 15 searches. Use it, and use it well. For instance, searching on (infocom,zork,ultima,akalabeth,serenia,cranston,softporn,drash) will turn up the best collectible games in one decisive blow, and you still get 14 more searches after that. A comma is the seperator??? What a bizarre system. I'll read up more on the search syntax. Thanks! Gee, Jim, you've been using eBay *how* long? I guess it's safe to say Since 1997. But I've never had a reason to snipe before; I always entered my bid and walked away. you're not hard core (yet). More specifically, ORs are done by I hope you're not suggesting that not being a hard core ebay bidder is a bad thing :-) enclosing a comma separated list of words in parentheses (sp?). ANDs are done just by listing words separated by spaces. (But be sure not to put spaces on either side of the commas in your ORs!) For example, (q bert,qbert) will find auctions with qbert, q and bert, and even q*bert. (It turns out some characters, like * are treated as a word separator, so Q*bert, Q-bert, and Q Bert all match a search on q bert.) Cool, thanks for the info. BTW, this reminds me of another eBay search feature. They limit the number of characters you can enter in their search forms. But if you use a custom page like mine, you can enter longer searches. Particularly useful for entering a long list of words NOT to include (e.g. (q bert,qbert) -(atari,colecovision,2600,Nintendo,NES,SNES,PC,playstation,dreamcast,gameboy,game boy)). More excellent info, thanks! -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 08/29/2001 11:18:36 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Geezus, you *both* paid too much for this. I value the entire thing at $250, tops. Well no, I won't say what makes it worth more but it IS worth more than the final bid. The winnah!! can tell you what makes the lot so valuable. This is a good example of my lot theory and people searching on your name to find things to bid on, these two guys sniped it but if they had bid earlier it may have got a lot more attention. Yes, but my $250 quote was indeed for the entire lot. Apples are $20 nowadays and the Pascal stuff was worthless to those guys. In fact, I was going on the entertainment software bundle alone only and I still think they paid too much for it. And the shipping won't be trivial either... But, such is life. We all do what we want to do. There is a time when you have to stand back, appreciate your collection, and be happy for what you have. My original philosophy (bid once and walk away) is probably going to be my mode of operation for a while because, quite frankly, I've got way too much going on in my life to be checking ebay twice a day, setting timepieces to match up with PST within the second, and stressing out over sniping. It's not my living. I understand that for some people here, it *is* their living, but I'd rather have piece of mind and a lower stress level (and, most importantly, more time for other projects). -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Jim, You realize you've achived the perfect Zen state to not let ebay consume you. Not everyone is so calm about it! Good for you. I try to do what you do -- I force myself to walk away because I'll keep increasing my bids and wind up spending 40% more than I had planned. Way to go. Jim Leonard wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 08/29/2001 11:18:36 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Geezus, you *both* paid too much for this. I value the entire thing at $250, tops. Well no, I won't say what makes it worth more but it IS worth more than the final bid. The winnah!! can tell you what makes the lot so valuable. This is a good example of my lot theory and people searching on your name to find things to bid on, these two guys sniped it but if they had bid earlier it may have got a lot more attention. Yes, but my $250 quote was indeed for the entire lot. Apples are $20 nowadays and the Pascal stuff was worthless to those guys. In fact, I was going on the entertainment software bundle alone only and I still think they paid too much for it. And the shipping won't be trivial either... But, such is life. We all do what we want to do. There is a time when you have to stand back, appreciate your collection, and be happy for what you have. My original philosophy (bid once and walk away) is probably going to be my mode of operation for a while because, quite frankly, I've got way too much going on in my life to be checking ebay twice a day, setting timepieces to match up with PST within the second, and stressing out over sniping. It's not my living. I understand that for some people here, it *is* their living, but I'd rather have piece of mind and a lower stress level (and, most importantly, more time for other projects). -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Jim Leonard boldly stated: Lee K. Seitz wrote: I haven't had much time for eBay lately, but I think it's up to date with their current search forms. I can send it to you (or post it here), if anyone's interested. I'd be curious to see it, thanks. Sent in private e-mail. you're not hard core (yet). I hope you're not suggesting that not being a hard core ebay bidder is a bad thing :-) No, just not the norm for this group. 8) -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/ Wanted: Vintage Pac-M*n necktie (The asterisk is to keep from mucking up people's Usenet search results. Replace it with an a, if you didn't know.) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
It sounds like you run a lot of searches. Ebay will only let me store 15 saved searches; is there any way to queue up a lot of searches (more than 15) and run them every few days? Not automatically through eBay. I think you can have eBay mail you the results of 3 saved searches daily or every 3 days. I'm on eBay almost every day, so I just do it manually. Takes about 10-15 minutes, and the number of items I find makes it well worth it. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
How did you get your bid in exactly 3 seconds before auction end? Because I'm very, very good. B-) Actually I just do the standard procedure: Two windows open, one with a place bid button at the ready, the second my refresh window (with graphics turned off so it loads faster). Hit Ctrl-R repeatedly in the last minute, switch windows and click when it gets down to about 10 seconds. Sometimes there's a bit of a lag, so you cut it a few seconds closer than planned. I've actually had my bid time be the EXACT second the auction closed, and I still won. (Runner-up was PISSED! B-) There are snipe services, such as VRane.com and eSnipe.com, that will connect to eBay a specified number of seconds before the auction's close and bid on your behalf. You have to give them your user ID and password, though, plus you're relying on their servers being up in addition to eBay's. Personally I only use these if I'm not going to be home when the auction closes. I enjoy the heart-ramming adrenaline high you can only get from sniping in person. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1260285866 Geezus, you *both* paid too much for this. I value the entire thing at $250, tops. That's probably because the auction text doesn't mention that the Starcross game is the saucer package. Hugh and I both asked, but the seller never posted it publicly. That's another piece of good advice: If you're not sure what package/release an item is, ask! If the seller says it's Ultima for the Apple II, ask if it's the Origin or the CPC release. Of course, there is a downside to this: The seller may decide to add this info to the auction, and then everyone will know. (I've lost count of the number of times someone selling BattleTech: The Crescent Hawk's Inception has told me, Sorry, it doesn't have a pin, somebody else asked me that too. Then the next time I check the page, he's added this fact to the description.) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Chris Newman wrote: You realize you've achived the perfect Zen state to not let ebay consume you. Not everyone is so calm about it! Good for you. I try to do what you do -- I force myself to walk away because I'll keep increasing my bids and wind up spending 40% more than I had planned. Way to go. Thanks! (at least, I'm hoping what you wrote wasn't sarcasm ;-) I think my ebay attitude coincides with my recent epiphany that I need to simplify my life or die in a few years. Exercise, lower stress levels, following a regular schedule, etc. Pretty much the opposite of how I've lived life as a hacking miscreant for the past 17 years. I guess turning 30 years old was, in and of itself, an epiphany ;-) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
[SWCollect] Sniping
I abhor sniping. Not because of what it is or what it does, but how people react to it, both good and bad. Proxy bidding is a joy to behold: You bid once, with your maximum, and ebay/whatever will automatically up the bid until you hit your maximum. If someone outbids you at the last second, no problem -- you wouldn't have paid more than your maximum anyway. This is how I bid 99% of the time. I see something I want, think good and hard about the *absolute maximum* I'd pay for something, and then I bid that maximum amount. I don't give it a second thought; in fact, I don't even have ebay email me if I've been outbid. Based on this operating philosophy, I just simply cannot comprehend sniping. Some people perform sniping on this list -- even *enjoy* it. To those people, I ask you the following questions: 1. Why do you snipe when you can just enter in a maximum and walk away? 2. If you lose a bid due to someone else sniping you, do you get angry/frustrated? PS: This is an honest curious question -- I'm not mad that someone out-sniped me or anything. The goal of these questions is not to talk badly about sniping, but to try to understand why it exists when proxy bidding makes it unnecessary. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Jim Leonard wrote: [snip] 1. Why do you snipe when you can just enter in a maximum and walk away? * If you bid early, and you bid primarily on game software, bidding early says loud and clear, look! cool stuff! (I actually find some of the stuff I get by searching for certain early-bidders. It's actually a good way of finding things.) * If you have only so much money to spend, and want multiple items, you're better off waiting as long as you can. For example, you have $100 to spend; there are 10 games that you want; on each, you're willing to pay as much as $20. You can't bid $20 on all of them right away, as you could be driven above your limit. It's better to wait on these as long as you can, and see how the first auctions go before you decide what to do with the later ones. * Bidding early has a tendency to get you into a bidding war with newbies (who have a tendency to pay too much). If you don't tip your hand you minimize this risk from those people with low ratings who are willing to pay WAY over value. * Bidding early puts you at risk of ye olde bid-and-retract trick. eBay has moved to reduce the viability of this trick, but it's still something to keep in mind. -- Stephen -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
In a message dated 08/28/2001 2:00:44 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: PS: This is an honest curious question -- I'm not mad that someone out-sniped me or anything. The goal of these questions is not to talk badly about sniping, but to try to understand why it exists when proxy bidding makes it unnecessary. For one it is exciting and makes it possible to get a bargain. If you have your max bid in someone can come along and test it (I've seen people drive up a person's bid to the max for fun) Tom -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
In a message dated 08/28/2001 2:00:44 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 2. If you lose a bid due to someone else sniping you, do you get angry/frustrated? Oh yes I can by the way, especially if it happens quite a few times by the same person with a fast connect, one guy always gets in in the last 1-2 secs. Tom -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also it prevents shilling (sp)? THIS is the first valid reason I've seen *for* sniping. However, it works both ways -- if someone is going to employ a shill, won't the shill just bid the minimum amount the seller wants for the item as his maximum bid? Just a thought. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
In a message dated 08/28/2001 2:39:22 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THIS is the first valid reason I've seen *for* sniping. However, it works both ways -- if someone is going to employ a shill, won't the shill just bid the minimum amount the seller wants for the item as his maximum bid? Just a thought. Nah, they would just use a reserve I would guess. If they shill they can do the testing thing to drive the bid that was made up to the max. Tom -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
In a message dated 08/28/2001 2:36:52 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * If you bid early, and you bid primarily on game software, bidding early says loud and clear, look! cool stuff! (I actually find some of the stuff I get by searching for certain early-bidders. It's actually a good way of finding things.) Why is this an issue? Is it because you draw attention to yourself? If so, why is that a bad thing? This is valid also, say you find a lot of games that has a treasure in it (maybe you emailed the seller for some specifics on an item you thought might be a good one). If you bid early there are people who check what you are bidding on and this alerts them to something they probably would have never found. It happens!!! Tom -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Alexander Zoller wrote: Why do you snipe when you can just enter in a maximum and walk away? Because placing my maximum bid days before the auction ends may result in newbie bidders nibbling away at my bid, thus driving up the price. Bidding at the last possible moment ensures that nobody gets a chance to react to my bid. Hm. This is a legitimate reason -- but in order to be ethical, ebay needs to restructure how they do things. Meaning, they should hide the current price and just let everyone bid their maximum. At the end of the auction, show who won. Here's an excellent guide to sniping: http://members.home.net/cruenti/ebay/snipe.html An excellent article, thanks! My final thoughts: I think it's only moral and ethical if the current bid were hidden from everyone before the auction was over, but the chances of changing ebay is as likely as me winning the lottery. And even if I could lobby ebay to change, they never would, since the underlying psychology of why people snipe ultimately makes ebay more money :-( Rest of the list: No more discussion on this is needed, BTW, I have my answer. Thanks to all who responded. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 08/28/2001 2:37:28 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How can you tell they were testing it and not honestly bidding for the item? Well usually a person has a max around a round figure, say $100 for fun. Someone will increase bids below the round figures, say $24.09, 49.09, 74.09, 99.09 until they catch the max. The 99.09 would drive it to $100 instead of $102.xx or whatever so you know you have reached the limit. I saw someone drive up an item to the max of $2000 just for fun, they had no intention of buying the item. Ouch. I think I understand now; they'll bid in $.50 increments until the system won't let them bid something that won't break past the minimum-allowable bid? Geez. It sounds like everyone *has* to snipe in order for the system to be fair. This is really starting to stink :) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Sniping
I am a confirmed sniper... C.E. and I have out sniped one another on a few occasions. We've talked afterwards, and while there is usually disappointment, there is never hard feelings because that's the way it has to be done if you're a serious collector on eBay. The main reason I snipe is that you can absolutely get items for less money if you snipe. I 100% guarantee it. The reason is that the theory of proxy bidding is not the reality. Most people do not really bid their maximum on first bid. I learned this early on when I first started on eBay. Let's say you bid $50 for a game one week before the auction ends. Then, one day before the auction ends, somebody bids $51. You think, well what does $2 matter? So you bid again. Then the other person does the same. I have seen this time and time again on eBay. This is an old trick of auctions. Proxy bidding is not a service for the buyer (unless you have unlimited funds and very limited time). It is a service to the seller and to the auction house. That is how they drive the price up beyond what you would normally pay for an item. Their goal is to get you in a bidding war...ideally to where it becomes a matter of principle, and you will have the item at any cost. Most people don't get into this mentality, but all it takes is two people to drive the price up and get more money for the seller and therefore the auction house as well. If you are a buyer, it is in your best interest to snipe. It is the greatest buyer advantage eBay has over a traditional auction...a set time limit. There is no auctioneer who will keep the auction going until he is sure all people are done bidding. It requires more effort on the part of a sniper (you can't just bid and walk away), but you will get the item for less, and you are assured of either getting the item or at the very least only having to bid your true maximum. Hugh -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 5:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Sniping Stephen S. Lee wrote: On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Jim Leonard wrote: [snip] 1. Why do you snipe when you can just enter in a maximum and walk away? * If you bid early, and you bid primarily on game software, bidding early says loud and clear, look! cool stuff! (I actually find some of the stuff I get by searching for certain early-bidders. It's actually a good way of finding things.) Why is this an issue? Is it because you draw attention to yourself? If so, why is that a bad thing? * If you have only so much money to spend, and want multiple items, you're better off waiting as long as you can. For example, you have $100 to spend; there are 10 games that you want; on each, you're willing to pay as much as $20. You can't bid $20 on all of them right away, as you could be driven above your limit. It's better to wait on these as long as you can, and see how the first auctions go before you decide what to do with the later ones. But that isn't sniping -- that's just waiting a while before bidding your maximum. I'm talking about intentionally waiting until seconds before the auction. * Bidding early has a tendency to get you into a bidding war with newbies (who have a tendency to pay too much). If you don't tip your hand you minimize this risk from those people with low ratings who are willing to pay WAY over value. In my experience, these people rarely pay up and, being the second bidder, I get the item anyway. And using proxy bidding the way it was meant to work means that you *don't* get into bidding wars. * Bidding early puts you at risk of ye olde bid-and-retract trick. eBay has moved to reduce the viability of this trick, but it's still something to keep in mind. Huh? What's that? I'm unfamiliar with that practice...? BTW, thanks for the detailed responses. I still haven't been given an acceptable proof for the legitimacy of sniping, but I appreciate the willingness to help me understand why people do it. I'll reiterate that sniping doesn't really bother me from the *auction* standpoint -- when I bid my maximum, most of the time I see people bidding at the last few seconds and losing because the proxy bids me closer to my maximum by a buck or two. What bothers me is *why* people do it. I guess I'd need a degree in psychology to try to understand... -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Jim Leonard wrote: Stephen S. Lee wrote: On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Jim Leonard wrote: [snip] 1. Why do you snipe when you can just enter in a maximum and walk away? * If you bid early, and you bid primarily on game software, bidding early says loud and clear, look! cool stuff! (I actually find some of the stuff I get by searching for certain early-bidders. It's actually a good way of finding things.) Why is this an issue? Is it because you draw attention to yourself? If so, why is that a bad thing? If you draw attention to yourself, that increases competition, meaning you'll have to pay more on average. You know, increased demand and all that. Actually, lately it looks like you're a good target for this, so maybe I'll intrude on your auctions (just because what you bid on tends to be cool stuff, and it's easier to search for your bids than to search for 300 things I want individually). There's a specific example given somewhere at YOIS (the photograph of Meretzky Adams). * If you have only so much money to spend, and want multiple items, you're better off waiting as long as you can. For example, you have $100 to spend; there are 10 games that you want; on each, you're willing to pay as much as $20. You can't bid $20 on all of them right away, as you could be driven above your limit. It's better to wait on these as long as you can, and see how the first auctions go before you decide what to do with the later ones. But that isn't sniping -- that's just waiting a while before bidding your maximum. I'm talking about intentionally waiting until seconds before the auction. Right, but (at least when I have money to spend, which I don't until my next paycheck rolls in) often this means waiting until the last hour or so, given how close many auctions end. Often, if the auctions are by the same person, and you're interested in several of them (which happens often), the auctions end only a couple minutes apart, and you *do* have to snipe in order to do this. * Bidding early has a tendency to get you into a bidding war with newbies (who have a tendency to pay too much). If you don't tip your hand you minimize this risk from those people with low ratings who are willing to pay WAY over value. In my experience, these people rarely pay up and, being the second bidder, I get the item anyway. And using proxy bidding the way it was meant to work means that you *don't* get into bidding wars. Huh? Proxy bidding makes automatic bids. If you place an early high bid, and a newbie wants a particular item badly, a newbie who has no sense of value will often keep placing successive bids until he's got your proxy bid of $60 beat. If you wait (and newbies often don't know about sniping), you can easily overtake his tentative bid of $10. You can save a LOT of money this way, because you are not tipping your hand that you value a particular item highly. Also, in my experience I rarely get these items. Getting the item as the second-highest bidder has happens to me twice in about a hundred or so lost auctions (if I lose an auction I'm bidding on seriously, I'm almost always second). * Bidding early puts you at risk of ye olde bid-and-retract trick. eBay has moved to reduce the viability of this trick, but it's still something to keep in mind. Huh? What's that? I'm unfamiliar with that practice...? Place a high bid, and retract it, so you know what the other's bid is exactly. (This isn't legal on eBay, but it still happens.) Also, bidding early leaves you open to people who drive up your bid just because they can. -- Stephen -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Jim, I know you said you had all the info you wanted on sniping, but I'll share my experience anyway if anyone cares to listen. When I first arrived on eBay, I was a total newbie. Saw something I liked, stuck a bid on it. Not necessarily the max I'd go, I was still feeling out the system. But, long story short, a bunch of people saw me and immediately started searching on my ID. He's found some good stuff, let's watch what he's bidding on so we'll know about it too. Nothing wrong with doing that. I search on other people's IDs all the time. Because you can. I learned fast. Proxy bidding is great, but it leaves you vulnerable to someone who's easily willing to outbid your maximum. The Meretzky/Adams photo Stephen refers to was my second win on eBay, and I ended up paying about $48 for it because another collector found it by scoping my activity. (That was high at the time, but I would've easily bid that amount now.) The solution I came up with was, wait to bid until it's closer to the time the auction closes, so there's less chance of someone seeing your bid attached to an item. The snipe is the ultimate example of this tactic. It works great for poorly listed items (Suspected Face-Mask Game by Info-Com) that other bidders might not see... unless another known collector draws their attention to it. Fact: I've personally won more rare/valuable items using sniping than I have without. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Jim Leonard wrote: [snip] Maybe this leads into another question: I would like to watch several auctions to see what happens to them, but doing so manually is a chore. Is there a (free) service or piece of software that will let me set up auctions to watch? What's wrong with the service eBay provides? You're limited to watching 20 items, but in my experience this is adequate. -- Stephen -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
C.E. Forman wrote: to an item. The snipe is the ultimate example of this tactic. It works great for poorly listed items (Suspected Face-Mask Game by Info-Com) that Hey, just how *do* you find poorly-listed items? I've found stuff purely by accident that was mis-named just as badly as the above AND was totally mis-categorized (it was under Magazines -- I'm not kidding). I found it almost completely randomly, but do you guys actually search for these things? I imagine you would, because it's almost guaranteed you'd get something decent for 4 bucks. How do you actually find stuff so poorly categorized and named? -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Stephen S. Lee wrote: On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Jim Leonard wrote: [snip] Maybe this leads into another question: I would like to watch several auctions to see what happens to them, but doing so manually is a chore. Is there a (free) service or piece of software that will let me set up auctions to watch? What's wrong with the service eBay provides? You're limited to watching 20 items, but in my experience this is adequate. Didn't know about it. :-) Can you use it to watch people as well? I had no idea people watched other people... I had no idea some of you were watching *me* (shudder) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Hey, just how *do* you find poorly-listed items? I've found stuff purely by accident that was mis-named just as badly as the above AND was totally mis-categorized (it was under Magazines -- I'm not kidding). I found it almost completely randomly, but do you guys actually search for these things? I imagine you would, because it's almost guaranteed you'd get something decent for 4 bucks. How do you actually find stuff so poorly categorized and named? Lots of ways: 1.) Obscure search terms, such as old computer game, flying saucer package, etc. Things the people who search on Infocom or Starcross will miss if it's improperly listed. 2.) Misspellings. Yes, search on people's typos. I've found items using Invisi-Clues and Kings Quest more often than you'd think. 3.) Browsing categories. It takes time, but it's worth it. My faves are the ones for Apple II / Vintage Mac, Atari Games, Commodore, and the all-encompassing vintage games. 4.) eBay provides a feature allowing you to save up to 15 searches. Use it, and use it well. For instance, searching on (infocom,zork,ultima,akalabeth,serenia,cranston,softporn,drash) will turn up the best collectible games in one decisive blow, and you still get 14 more searches after that. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Jim Leonard wrote: Stephen S. Lee wrote: On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Jim Leonard wrote: [snip] Maybe this leads into another question: I would like to watch several auctions to see what happens to them, but doing so manually is a chore. Is there a (free) service or piece of software that will let me set up auctions to watch? What's wrong with the service eBay provides? You're limited to watching 20 items, but in my experience this is adequate. Didn't know about it. :-) It is one of eBay's most handy little tools. Exploit it :) Can you use it to watch people as well? I had no idea people watched other people... I had no idea some of you were watching *me* (shudder) You can't watch other people like this (you *can* watch sellers like this, but not bidders), and you can't watch bidders at all if they're from certain countries. Watching bidders is done by manually using eBay's search by bidder function every time you feel like watching what others are doing. The ways to avoid this are to (1) move to one of said certain countries (like Germany), or (2) snipe, or at least refrain from bidding until the final few hours the auction is open. -- Stephen -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Speaking of sniping... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1266370886 ha ha ha C.E. Forman wrote: Hey, just how *do* you find poorly-listed items? I've found stuff purely by accident that was mis-named just as badly as the above AND was totally mis-categorized (it was under Magazines -- I'm not kidding). I found it almost completely randomly, but do you guys actually search for these things? I imagine you would, because it's almost guaranteed you'd get something decent for 4 bucks. How do you actually find stuff so poorly categorized and named? Lots of ways: 1.) Obscure search terms, such as old computer game, flying saucer package, etc. Things the people who search on Infocom or Starcross will miss if it's improperly listed. 2.) Misspellings. Yes, search on people's typos. I've found items using Invisi-Clues and Kings Quest more often than you'd think. 3.) Browsing categories. It takes time, but it's worth it. My faves are the ones for Apple II / Vintage Mac, Atari Games, Commodore, and the all-encompassing vintage games. 4.) eBay provides a feature allowing you to save up to 15 searches. Use it, and use it well. For instance, searching on (infocom,zork,ultima,akalabeth,serenia,cranston,softporn,drash) will turn up the best collectible games in one decisive blow, and you still get 14 more searches after that. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Speaking of sniping... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1266370886 ha ha ha C.E. Forman wrote: Hey, just how *do* you find poorly-listed items? I've found stuff purely by accident that was mis-named just as badly as the above AND was totally mis-categorized (it was under Magazines -- I'm not kidding). I found it almost completely randomly, but do you guys actually search for these things? I imagine you would, because it's almost guaranteed you'd get something decent for 4 bucks. How do you actually find stuff so poorly categorized and named? Lots of ways: 1.) Obscure search terms, such as old computer game, flying saucer package, etc. Things the people who search on Infocom or Starcross will miss if it's improperly listed. 2.) Misspellings. Yes, search on people's typos. I've found items using Invisi-Clues and Kings Quest more often than you'd think. 3.) Browsing categories. It takes time, but it's worth it. My faves are the ones for Apple II / Vintage Mac, Atari Games, Commodore, and the all-encompassing vintage games. 4.) eBay provides a feature allowing you to save up to 15 searches. Use it, and use it well. For instance, searching on (infocom,zork,ultima,akalabeth,serenia,cranston,softporn,drash) will turn up the best collectible games in one decisive blow, and you still get 14 more searches after that. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
Speaking of sniping... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1266370886 ha ha ha C.E. Forman wrote: Hey, just how *do* you find poorly-listed items? I've found stuff purely by accident that was mis-named just as badly as the above AND was totally mis-categorized (it was under Magazines -- I'm not kidding). I found it almost completely randomly, but do you guys actually search for these things? I imagine you would, because it's almost guaranteed you'd get something decent for 4 bucks. How do you actually find stuff so poorly categorized and named? Lots of ways: 1.) Obscure search terms, such as old computer game, flying saucer package, etc. Things the people who search on Infocom or Starcross will miss if it's improperly listed. 2.) Misspellings. Yes, search on people's typos. I've found items using Invisi-Clues and Kings Quest more often than you'd think. 3.) Browsing categories. It takes time, but it's worth it. My faves are the ones for Apple II / Vintage Mac, Atari Games, Commodore, and the all-encompassing vintage games. 4.) eBay provides a feature allowing you to save up to 15 searches. Use it, and use it well. For instance, searching on (infocom,zork,ultima,akalabeth,serenia,cranston,softporn,drash) will turn up the best collectible games in one decisive blow, and you still get 14 more searches after that. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
46 new messages, 44 from this list, its unlikely I'll contribute any new insight. But for the record, I'll snip anything except when the auction ends when I can't be in front of my PC. Anyway: - I use the watch list so people don't search for my bids - I also use the watch list to cut back on bidding on everything. Gives me time to think if I really want it. Also allows me to prioritize. - Cutting back on cost is good. When I started snipping, I did so at the 30 second marker. I've had people bid again within that window (+$50!) If I was more daring, I'd have saved the cash. And one absolutely dirty trick (in theory of course)... if someone is constantly warring with you (usually for multiple items from the same seller) you can get a feel for their limits, look at their bidding list, and crank up the bids on things you don't want that they're bidding on. They'll (hopefully) deplete their cash and not fight so hard for the items you really want. The risk is obvious, though. Did someone already say this? Not sniping has an advantage though. Intimidation. If someone is good and does a little research and sees that their opponent has deep pockets, they may reconsider bidding at all. This doesn't always work, but sometimes if I really could go either way on something, I'll stay away from vetran bidders. Or deep-pocketed newbies. I recently passed on a IIgs game that I saw was pursued by a list member. I passed solely on the premise of the bidder and it being a would be nice instead of a must have. The money I save usually scores me a half-dozen or so would be nice titles that go with one bid (mine). Dan -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Sniping
46 new messages, 44 from this list, its unlikely I'll contribute any new insight. But for the record, I'll snip anything except when the auction ends when I can't be in front of my PC. Anyway: - I use the watch list so people don't search for my bids - I also use the watch list to cut back on bidding on everything. Gives me time to think if I really want it. Also allows me to prioritize. - Cutting back on cost is good. When I started snipping, I did so at the 30 second marker. I've had people bid again within that window (+$50!) If I was more daring, I'd have saved the cash. And one absolutely dirty trick (in theory of course)... if someone is constantly warring with you (usually for multiple items from the same seller) you can get a feel for their limits, look at their bidding list, and crank up the bids on things you don't want that they're bidding on. They'll (hopefully) deplete their cash and not fight so hard for the items you really want. The risk is obvious, though. Did someone already say this? Not sniping has an advantage though. Intimidation. If someone is good and does a little research and sees that their opponent has deep pockets, they may reconsider bidding at all. This doesn't always work, but sometimes if I really could go either way on something, I'll stay away from vetran bidders. Or deep-pocketed newbies. I recently passed on a IIgs game that I saw was pursued by a list member. I passed solely on the premise of the bidder and it being a would be nice instead of a must have. The money I save usually scores me a half-dozen or so would be nice titles that go with one bid (mine). Dan -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
