Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
I guess the only real solution is to make it a closed project, where you would have to apply to get access, and only real collectors would be admitted. But I fear that's just delaying the inevitable, really. Unfortunately I don't believe there's much of a chance of stopping a counterfeiter *before* he does it. And if we were to say only real collectors could join, someone's bound to get upset, probably rightly so. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Totally disagree here; having an item still in original shrinkwrap is a testament of time, and much rarer than an open box, of course. Really though, it's just amazing to have an item after X years still in the condition and orginal packaging that it would have been in at the little ma pa shop that originally sold it. I've always felt unbroken shrinkwrap has a kind of Schroedinger's Cat value to it. Suppose you have the only currently known copy of a rare game (long-time list people know which one I'm talking about B-). Then suppose you opened it to play, but found out the disk has deteriorated and is no longer readable. I imagine everyone here would agree you've devalued the game, whether it's from opening the shrinkwrap, or from taking a game that *could* still be playable and turning it into a game that definitely is not. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Brian the Fist schrieb: I always like to throw a bone in the gears.. It's not so hard to get access to a shrinkwrap machine. How do you know, if you get a shrinkwrapped game, that it is in the ORIGINAL shrinkwrap? Especially if there are no price tags or anything. If you never open it, how would you ever know? Carbon dating? The pungent odour? To me it is absurd to collect shrinkwrapped games at not open them - you're just opening yourself wide to scammers (not that I'd ever do that.. dum-de-dum..) Anyhow, when I get a shrinkwrapped game (rarely) the shrinkwrap is the first thing to go (unless I'm reselling it of course). When it comes to Infocom games I am pretty certain I can tell a rewrap from an original one. It's not only that I know what the shrink looked like that was used by Infocom, but there are other telltale signs as well: dust particles under the shrink, edgewear where there shouldn't be any, fingerprints, etc. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
I am already doing this Chris, you've seen my site haven't you? If I am inadvertantly helping counterfeiters, I'm sorry but for me at least, the benefit (hi-res scans) outweighs the risk. Anyhow, there are only a very few games that are amenable to easy counterfeiting - basically those sold in a cardboard folder with the instructions printed right on it, and nothing else, and we know to be cautious of their origins when buying these... C.E. Forman wrote: This reminds me. Awhile back Sarinee Achavanuntakul (of Underdogs) and I were talking about setting up a site for cataloguing the exact contents of game packages. Gameprops.com, I believe it was to be called. It was to be something like a more specialized version of Moby, concentrating on package variations and lists of what was in them. Possibly scans too, though with all the counterfeiting lately I'm nervous about an undertaking like that now. I did some fundamental database design, and we got as far as actually registering the domain name, but it just never went anywhere from there. - Original Message - From: Per-Olof Karlsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 6:12 AM Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase Well, I kinda see it as preserving a legacy. How many originally shrinked versions of a game will be around in fifty years? Yeah, of course I understand this view. :) I'd much rather preserve the whole package though. I like to make scans of the contents for instance, which is rather hard when it's shrinkwrapped. ;) I think one of the more important tasks we as collectors have is to document history. - Peo -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- -- Howard Feldman, Author of The Search for Freedom A Computer Fantasy Role-Playing Game Visit its Homepage at http://deep.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Per-Olof Karlsson wrote: Counterfeiters are always a problem. If the images are of high quality enough (which we all want them to be), I'm sure we'd run into problems. The only real way to solve it is by crippling the image in some way, either by introducing some watermark or just insert a logo at a crucial spot - however this makes it less enjoyable for the rest of us.. Same goes with the idea of having the pics in such a quality that it would look like crap if printed (low quality jpeg's, for instance). Nobody really wants that either. Though, the biggest problem with logos et al is that given enough Photoshop skills you can always get rid of them, or even make a low quality jpeg look exactly like the real thing. There are many ways to watermark images such that they cannot be tampered with. If this becomes a reality, bring the concept up again and I'm sure we can think of something. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
But I agree that for very rare items the data should be preserved as well, if a game would otherwise be lost, once the original medium is deteriorated. As long as 1 person perserves the data, it can be copied. An original shrinkwrapped box can't be copied. :) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
The reason why I said that CGC is a scam is because people pay them a lot of money to grade their books, then they turn around and charge a premium for those books, and other people are foolish enough to pay that extra money for things like a 9.2 DC Comics Presents 61 just because its CGC-graded. It has the added negative side-effect of locking comic books away in slabs, never to be read again. (But they're worth so much money!) Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 6:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase Stuart Feldhamer wrote: That's another scam...don't get me started. At the risk of spawning another monster OT thread, I have to know: Why is slabbing a scam? Is it because their ratings are worthless? Or is it because it hardens the market so that you can't make deals, etc.? Also, any comic book collectors on this list: What happened to the market? I collected Alan Moore books in the 1980s as they came out, and in the early 1990s they were worth more than $20 a book. Now I couldn't get more than $1-$2 apiece for them... Did something happen to the market? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Well, I kinda see it as preserving a legacy. How many originally shrinked versions of a game will be around in fifty years? Yeah, of course I understand this view. :) I'd much rather preserve the whole package though. I like to make scans of the contents for instance, which is rather hard when it's shrinkwrapped. ;) I think one of the more important tasks we as collectors have is to document history. - Peo -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Lee K. Seitz wrote: Yeah, and these discussions have a very familiar ring to them. I was going to go back and look at our discussion, but discovered the archive only goes back to late January 2003. I didn't realize we were losing access to messages as we went along. Glad I'm saving some of them for reference. It's YTD? Crap, I had no idea either. Luckily I am keeping a local archive of all the messages. I'll see what I can do about getting that online. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Per-Olof Karlsson wrote: Well, I kinda see it as preserving a legacy. How many originally shrinked versions of a game will be around in fifty years? Yeah, of course I understand this view. :) I'd much rather preserve the whole package though. I like to make scans of the contents for instance, which is rather hard when it's shrinkwrapped. ;) I think one of the more important tasks we as collectors have is to document history. ..which is exactly why I started MobyGames. :) We have stuff in our collections that NOBODY has heard of ;-) -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Jim Leonard stated: Also, any comic book collectors on this list: What happened to the market? I collected Alan Moore books in the 1980s as they came out, and in the early 1990s they were worth more than $20 a book. Now I couldn't get more than $1-$2 apiece for them... Did something happen to the market? The entire comic book market, both new and back issues, has been spiraling downwards since the late '90s crash. Too many speculators (and publishers catering to them with all the multi-cover and cover enhancement crap) plus the transition from being available in grocery stores, drug store, etc. to only being available in specialty shops. Guess what, if comic books are in places that people normally frequent, you don't keep attracing new readers! You're stuck with the same audience, who will slowly dwindle away. I'd also guess that the rise of eBay (and the Internet in general) has done bad things to the back issue market. It used to be that you if you wanted a certain issue, you had to find it at your local shop. (Or mail order, but that's a bit of trouble.) I spent some time going to comic shops any time my family was out of town on vacation to find stuff I wanted. Now, you just sit down, fire up the browser and either go to eBay or a dealer like www.milehighcomics.com and you can find almost anything you want. Thus, on a local level demand for many items goes down, not to mention the stores are now completing with other stores all around the country instead of just the one on the other side of town. OTOH, I sold all my TRANSFORMERS back issues back in the late '90s after the series was canceled for pennies (well, maybe quarters) on the dollar. The toys and the comics are now cranking up again and I probably could get a lot more for them if I still had them now. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Ive just told Stefan this, but for the rest: n All EA folder-type games were shrinkwrapped when new, so this is obviously a used game. n The tape on the disk sleeves is not supposed to be there, somebody probably but them there due to damages on the sleeve. n The tape on the right-hand side of the sleeve is a common thing for dealers to do when they re-sell used games. This is mainly done to prevent things from falling out of the sleeve _and_ from preventing would-be thiefs to snatch something from the inside n I agree to the mis-use of the term new Ive got many shrinkwrapped games that are obviously new but which are far from mint (crushed boxes, lots of price tags, tears in the shrink and so on). I think the best way to describe a really new game is MINT SEALED as suggested by BL. Cheers, Peo From: BL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: den 15 januari 2004 16:28 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase Is there an auction link you can provide? I don't know too much about Wasteland, but I do know that if it's not in the original shrinkwrap, it technically is not NEW. If he had it already, why would he open it? Some inexperienced sellers/collectors will call something NEW if it looks new, even if it's open. Technically, NEW isn't even an accepted term among collectors, and MINT SEALED is the equivilent toperfect condition, still in original shrinkwrap. Under accepted terms, this one would be MINT or VERY GOOD. - Original Message - From: Stefan Lindblom To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:12 AM Subject: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase Hello group, My name is Stefan and I am gamoholic. :) I need some advice, preferrably from someone who knows what a NEW copy of Wasteland should look like. I have included a picture of a game I just bought. He declared it to be NEW, and said he got this one for christmas 88-89, but that he already had the game so he never played this one. First of all there is a piece of tape on the front cover, as you can see. It is appearantly a pricetag, which immidiately suggests it was bought used. There is also some kind of tear to the right of the cover, also visible, where there was some kind of tape. I assume some tape was used to hold the box together? (since it is a fold-out) Manuals appear to be new and not used. But regarding the disks. The two disc sleeves are put together using some kind of white tape, this looks very unprofessional but I have seen that kind of tape before on original old games so I am not sure. Some input would be appreciated, so I know whether or not to complain. /Stefan
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
BL wrote: Is there an auction link you can provide? I don't know too much about Wasteland, but I do know that if it's not in the original shrinkwrap, it technically is not NEW. If he had it already, why would he open it? Some inexperienced sellers/collectors will call something NEW if it looks new, even if it's open. Technically, NEW isn't even an accepted term among collectors, and MINT SEALED is the equivilent to perfect condition, still in original shrinkwrap. Under accepted terms, this one would be MINT or VERY GOOD. Once a game is opened, it is not MINT any more. Maybe now is a good time to re-introduce the reason this list was originally started: The MobyScale. CEF and myself were talking over email one day that we were frustrated with MINT showing up all over the place when the game was clearly not mint. What is mint? What is very good? So I started this list with CEF, Hugh, Tom H., and others and we all came up with a standard of grading software called the MobyScale (since there was no better name and MobyGames was adopting it for their user have/want list feature). You can read it all here: http://www.mobygames.com/info/MobyScale So, now you know. Since we all use the same scale, we have an exact understanding of what Fine is, or what Ancient Land of Ys (PC): Box G, Media F, Manual G, Registration Card IM means :-) (It means the item is in poor shape ;-) To answer Stefan: You have a complete release but it is nowhere in new quality or condition. No tape should be there; no price stickers should be directly on the box/folder itself. The sleeves should not be taped or damaged. One other thing: The PC release was never in a folder, only the later box style, so if you have PC disks with that package then somebody made it out of parts :) -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Per-Olof Karlsson wrote: think the best way to describe a really new game is MINT SEALED as suggested by BL. Sealed but crushed games are also covered in the MobyScale :) See previous post. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
My bad Jim, I'm actually a little rusty! :) That descrepency with Near Mint's definition that we had a conversation about last year was never ironed out though huh? (the descrep. being that Near Mint: No noticable defects, but not sealed, which makes a Sealed but not in perfect Mint condition an impossible rating, becuase NM implies no wrap. - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase BL wrote: Is there an auction link you can provide? I don't know too much about Wasteland, but I do know that if it's not in the original shrinkwrap, it technically is not NEW. If he had it already, why would he open it? Some inexperienced sellers/collectors will call something NEW if it looks new, even if it's open. Technically, NEW isn't even an accepted term among collectors, and MINT SEALED is the equivilent to perfect condition, still in original shrinkwrap. Under accepted terms, this one would be MINT or VERY GOOD. Once a game is opened, it is not MINT any more. Maybe now is a good time to re-introduce the reason this list was originally started: The MobyScale. CEF and myself were talking over email one day that we were frustrated with MINT showing up all over the place when the game was clearly not mint. What is mint? What is very good? So I started this list with CEF, Hugh, Tom H., and others and we all came up with a standard of grading software called the MobyScale (since there was no better name and MobyGames was adopting it for their user have/want list feature). You can read it all here: http://www.mobygames.com/info/MobyScale So, now you know. Since we all use the same scale, we have an exact understanding of what Fine is, or what Ancient Land of Ys (PC): Box G, Media F, Manual G, Registration Card IM means :-) (It means the item is in poor shape ;-) To answer Stefan: You have a complete release but it is nowhere in new quality or condition. No tape should be there; no price stickers should be directly on the box/folder itself. The sleeves should not be taped or damaged. One other thing: The PC release was never in a folder, only the later box style, so if you have PC disks with that package then somebody made it out of parts :) -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
BL wrote: My bad Jim, I'm actually a little rusty! :) That descrepency with Near Mint's definition that we had a conversation about last year was never ironed out though huh? (the descrep. being that Near Mint: No noticable defects, but not sealed, which makes a Sealed but not in perfect Mint condition an impossible rating, becuase NM implies no wrap. It implies no wrap but you can always use the Sealed modifier. There are six main grades (Mint Sealed, Near Mint, Fine, Very Good, Good, and Excess Defects) and a few recognized modifiers (Sealed, Compressed, Torn Wrap, Item Missing, Bad Media, and a specialized shorthand for several conditions called Missing Minor Component). So the grade would be Near Mint, Sealed (or, if you prefer shorthand, NM (S)), which would imply the game is still sealed, but it has some crushed corners or something. Does that resolve the discrepancy? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Well yeah, I am aware you could do that, but it could be confusing to those who don't know. I'm just thinking it could be streamlined to some degree. Why assume or not assume any sealed quality on any of six grades if there is a modifier to handle the condition? I would propose a 2 changes to the scale: MINT SEALED changed to MINT with the possibility of the S modifier. NEAR MINT very light shelf wear, no specific defects, just not BRAND SPANKING, also with the possibility of the S modifier. (aka better than FINE, but not MINT) - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase BL wrote: My bad Jim, I'm actually a little rusty! :) That descrepency with Near Mint's definition that we had a conversation about last year was never ironed out though huh? (the descrep. being that Near Mint: No noticable defects, but not sealed, which makes a Sealed but not in perfect Mint condition an impossible rating, becuase NM implies no wrap. It implies no wrap but you can always use the Sealed modifier. There are six main grades (Mint Sealed, Near Mint, Fine, Very Good, Good, and Excess Defects) and a few recognized modifiers (Sealed, Compressed, Torn Wrap, Item Missing, Bad Media, and a specialized shorthand for several conditions called Missing Minor Component). So the grade would be Near Mint, Sealed (or, if you prefer shorthand, NM (S)), which would imply the game is still sealed, but it has some crushed corners or something. Does that resolve the discrepancy? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
I support this view too. Shrinkwrapped items to me are interesting mainly because I know it's all in the box, and if mint also that it's all in perfect condition. Other than that, I'm not too interested. I can be found removing the shrink when I'm curious enough and don't have an open copy around. As long as my game is in excellent condition and complete, I'm happy! I do keep many of them still in wrap due to the financial aspect of things, but I wouldn't be too surprised if this attitude would go away much like it did with comic books. If you can't see what's inside, look at the stuff that came with it, then what's the point? Other than being an investment, I see no reason at all to keep it in shrinkwrap. - Peo -Original Message- From: Feldhamer, Stuart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: den 15 januari 2004 21:45 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase This thing with shrinkwrap reminds me of when the comic book companies started to polybag some of their comics...essentially to shrinkwrap them. There was a whole debate as to whether polybagged comics that had been opened were worth less than sealed copies. The consensus eventually was something like screw the comic companies, this is BS, I'm not going to start buying 2 copies of every comic to preserve the value of my collection while still being able to read it, so an opened polybagged comic came to have the same value as a sealed one. The comic companies pretty much stopped doing it too. Stuart -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Per-Olof Karlsson wrote: things, but I wouldn't be too surprised if this attitude would go away much I don't think it will go away, because computer game software has *always* come wrapped or sealed in some way. Hell, even Akalabeth came in a bag. That is completely different from comics, whose value was *never* tied to bags, always condition, until companies started bagging them. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
I don't think it will go away, because computer game software has *always* come wrapped or sealed in some way. Hell, even Akalabeth came in a bag. That is completely different from comics, whose value was *never* tied to bags, always condition, until companies started bagging them. This is true. But still, what's the point of having a package you can't do anything with? It's about as exciting as having a comic or why not an ordinary book sealed in plastic. Guaranteed new, yes, but hardly interesting in any other aspect. (neglecting financial value now) - Peo -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
BL wrote: I understand the scale, there is just the point with Mint Sealed and Near Mint implying the state of the shrink on the product while there's also a modifier for Sealed.. It just seems redundant to me. In essense MS and NM are the same thing, except for the wrap. So why not M with or without S to replace NM? If you don't want to change it, that's fine, I'm just pointing out the anomoly that it is and what makes the most sense to me. You write M with or without S but you seem to be overlooking the fundamental definition of Mint: Mint items must be sealed. If the item is no longer factory-original sealed, it cannot be called mint. So there is no such thing as M without S. MS and NM are indeed the same thing except for the wrap. But you're looking at the scale without considering most collections; the majority are unsealed/unwrapped. That is why Sealed is an optional modifier. Perhaps it's because I'm one of those shrinkwrap nuts you mentioned. :) I only collect stuff still in shrinkwrap.. maybe an occasional exception. In anycase, I can't be alone, and if anything, more and more people are seeking You aren't alone but you are definitely in the minority. For example, I don't know a single collector on this list who maintains an entirely shrinkwrapped collection. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Per-Olof Karlsson wrote: I don't think it will go away, because computer game software has *always* come wrapped or sealed in some way. Hell, even Akalabeth came in a bag. That is completely different from comics, whose value was *never* tied to bags, always condition, until companies started bagging them. This is true. But still, what's the point of having a package you can't do anything with? It's about as exciting as having a comic or why not an ordinary book sealed in plastic. Guaranteed new, yes, but hardly interesting in any other aspect. (neglecting financial value now) Hey, I'm in total agreement with you there. In fact, I routinely crack the wrap on my software if I want to play the game (instead of downloading a badly-cracked copy, or running a different version in an emulator, etc.). Of course, this gives die-hards like CEForman and Tom H. the shivers whenever I tell them I removed the wrap from a piece in my collection, but hey, I want to play (or preserve) the damn thing ;-) I'm not saying the sealed = more $$ formula is fair and just, but it is extremely accurate in determining how much something will fetch on ebay or in trade. I think it's unanimous that, in terms of dollar value, sealed non-sealed. So the scale was built with that in mind. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
I'm not saying the sealed = more $$ formula is fair and just, but it is extremely accurate in determining how much something will fetch on ebay or in trade. I think it's unanimous that, in terms of dollar value, sealed non-sealed. So the scale was built with that in mind. Absolutely, sealed copies are always more expensive. Actually, I even like that, because it's easier to buy near-mint copies at more down-to-earth prices.. ;) - Peo -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
I think this is partially because on ebay, we have to assume that nobody can be trusted. If the game had a good pedigree, it might not matter as much whether or not the shrinkwrap was still there. Stuart -Original Message- From: Per-Olof Karlsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase I'm not saying the sealed = more $$ formula is fair and just, but it is extremely accurate in determining how much something will fetch on ebay or in trade. I think it's unanimous that, in terms of dollar value, sealed non-sealed. So the scale was built with that in mind. Absolutely, sealed copies are always more expensive. Actually, I even like that, because it's easier to buy near-mint copies at more down-to-earth prices.. ;) - Peo -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Jim Leonard stated: BL wrote: I would propose a 2 changes to the scale: (I should warn you that changes to the scale were debated heavily for months before being finalized. If the scale is constantly changing, nobody will use it. Therefore, in order for a change to be made to the scale, you would have to point out a significant flaw in logic or definition.) Yeah, and these discussions have a very familiar ring to them. I was going to go back and look at our discussion, but discovered the archive only goes back to late January 2003. I didn't realize we were losing access to messages as we went along. Glad I'm saving some of them for reference. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Jim wrote: You write M with or without S but you seem to be overlooking the fundamental definition of Mint: Mint items must be sealed. Hehe, I understand fully the concepts at hand; but it's that way because that's the way you guys made the scale.. what I was suggesting would require a change you see. Nevertheless, I can see this isn't going anywhere fast, so I'll just drop it. :) Brad - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase BL wrote: I understand the scale, there is just the point with Mint Sealed and Near Mint implying the state of the shrink on the product while there's also a modifier for Sealed.. It just seems redundant to me. In essense MS and NM are the same thing, except for the wrap. So why not M with or without S to replace NM? If you don't want to change it, that's fine, I'm just pointing out the anomoly that it is and what makes the most sense to me. You write M with or without S but you seem to be overlooking the fundamental definition of Mint: Mint items must be sealed. If the item is no longer factory-original sealed, it cannot be called mint. So there is no such thing as M without S. MS and NM are indeed the same thing except for the wrap. But you're looking at the scale without considering most collections; the majority are unsealed/unwrapped. That is why Sealed is an optional modifier. Perhaps it's because I'm one of those shrinkwrap nuts you mentioned. :) I only collect stuff still in shrinkwrap.. maybe an occasional exception. In anycase, I can't be alone, and if anything, more and more people are seeking You aren't alone but you are definitely in the minority. For example, I don't know a single collector on this list who maintains an entirely shrinkwrapped collection. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
On Jan 15, 2004, at 3:31 PM, Jim Leonard wrote:
[Snip]
Hey, I'm in total agreement with you there. In fact, I routinely
crack the wrap on my software if I want to play the game (instead of
downloading a badly-cracked copy, or running a different version in an
emulator, etc.). Of course, this gives die-hards like CEForman and
Tom H. the shivers whenever I tell them I removed the wrap from a
piece in my collection, but hey, I want to play (or preserve) the damn
thing ;-)
I'm the same. If it is a game for me the shrinkwrap goes (if it is
for resale I'll leave it alone). I want all the goodies at hand when I
play the game because that's the most fun for me. Leaving a game in
the shrinkwrap is like buying a valuable painting and then locking it
away never to look at it or like having a girlfriend and never kissing
her. ;-)
I'm not saying the sealed = more $$ formula is fair and just, but it
is extremely accurate in determining how much something will fetch on
ebay or in trade. I think it's unanimous that, in terms of dollar
value, sealed non-sealed. So the scale was built with that in mind.
I agree that weighting a sealed game higher is the way to go in the
scale. People ('the market') values virginal items higher in general.
--
Edward Franks
--
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Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Stefan Lindblom schrieb: Hello group, My name is Stefan and I am gamoholic. :) I need some advice, preferrably from someone who knows what a NEW copy of Wasteland should look like. I have included a picture of a game I just bought. He declared it to be NEW, and said he got this one for christmas 88-89, but that he already had the game so he never played this one. It's definitely not new. When I bought my Wasteland fifteen years ago it was shrinked and there was no tape holding the disk sleeves together. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Per-Olof Karlsson schrieb: I support this view too. Shrinkwrapped items to me are interesting mainly because I know it's all in the box, and if mint also that it's all in perfect condition. Other than that, I'm not too interested. I can be found removing the shrink when I'm curious enough and don't have an open copy around. As long as my game is in excellent condition and complete, I'm happy! I do keep many of them still in wrap due to the financial aspect of things, but I wouldn't be too surprised if this attitude would go away much like it did with comic books. If you can't see what's inside, look at the stuff that came with it, then what's the point? Other than being an investment, I see no reason at all to keep it in shrinkwrap. Well, I kinda see it as preserving a legacy. How many originally shrinked versions of a game will be around in fifty years? Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
Ed said: Leaving a game in the shrinkwrap is like buying a valuable painting and then locking it away never to look at it or like having a girlfriend and never kissing her. ;-) Well unlike vintage sealed computer games, you can unwrap a chick over and over again. There's no comparison :) Brad - Original Message - From: Marco Thorek [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase Edward Franks schrieb: I'm the same. If it is a game for me the shrinkwrap goes (if it is for resale I'll leave it alone). I want all the goodies at hand when I play the game because that's the most fun for me. Leaving a game in the shrinkwrap is like buying a valuable painting and then locking it away never to look at it or like having a girlfriend and never kissing her. ;-) Heh, you can't have the same girlfriend twice (ok, provided you don't manage to meet twins ;-) Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase
I always like to throw a bone in the gears.. It's not so hard to get access to a shrinkwrap machine. It's not impossible to tell the difference between an original and reshrink job. Here's some snippets people made from a thread about re-shrinking early last year: - Not sure if this applies in all cases but I've noticed the shrink on reshrinks is usually a crisper type of plastic. Also had a game where I was not sure if it was original or reshrink. The shrink was partially torn It had a sticker on it I wanted to remove so I used the hairdryer (best tip I EVER got for removing stickers). Lo and behold the shrink shrunk big time, shriveled up (and it was the crisp type of plastic). I've never had this happen with an original shrink. - Something that has been re-wrapped should have rough or uneven seams/lines/edges where the wrap halves were burnt together. - The quality of the shrinkwrap can usually tell you. Factory wrap differs significantly from store re-wrap. - Edge wear, distinct scratches or scrapes under shrinkwrap is a tell tale sign. - to my knowledge, no rewrap will have the 1/4th inch (or so) hole on the wrap that is characteristic of a factory wrap. Brad - Original Message - From: Brian the Fist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Need advice regarding a Wasteland purchase I always like to throw a bone in the gears.. It's not so hard to get access to a shrinkwrap machine. How do you know, if you get a shrinkwrapped game, that it is in the ORIGINAL shrinkwrap? Especially if there are no price tags or anything. If you never open it, how would you ever know? Carbon dating? The pungent odour? To me it is absurd to collect shrinkwrapped games at not open them - you're just opening yourself wide to scammers (not that I'd ever do that.. dum-de-dum..) Anyhow, when I get a shrinkwrapped game (rarely) the shrinkwrap is the first thing to go (unless I'm reselling it of course). BL wrote: Well, I kinda see it as preserving a legacy. How many originally shrinked versions of a game will be around in fifty years? Marco Exactly Marco.. couldn't have said it better myself. -- -- Howard Feldman, Author of The Search for Freedom A Computer Fantasy Role-Playing Game Visit its Homepage at http://deep.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
