Re: [GTALUG] A dos port of the Linux program neofetch.

[BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-04-28 06:38:


MySysInf is a port of a BASH script called Neofetch

The program lists a bunch of interesting things about your System.


I run it on at least one system, and it's a nice *initial* screen when 
starting a terminal session (invoked by the last line of .bashrc).




There seem to be a lot of variants of this program!
I've added an entry for fetch4fd and MySysInf to the Wikipedia page.


Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia.

I looked at the linked page, and...

> Neofetch development has been discontinued as of April 26, 2024. [5]

Awe, shoot.  I guess it's pretty complete now anyway.


https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch/issues/2453

> This repository has been archived by the owner on Apr 26, 2024. It is
> now read-only.


> dylanaraps/README.md
>
> Have taken up farming.

Oh, I can relate, good luck, good sir.


Oh, gawd, he wrote a *file manager* in bash, as well as his own Linux 
distro.


I'd take up another occupation too after that.


rb


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Re: [GTALUG] When a web page goes to next level

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Karen Lewellen via talk wrote on 2024-04-05 06:31:

I, in my lower graphics browser, Lynx in this case, get text of the 
article,  and wonderful alt-tag descriptions of the images..no zoom 
messiness.


That's great!




On Thu, 4 Apr 2024, Gron Arthur via talk wrote:

I find that it is too distracting, and takes away from the content.


Now I wonder, if you set your OS to `prefers-reduced-motion` if their 
CSS detects that and changes some styles to ... reduce the motion within 
the page?



https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/prefers-reduced-motion

i.e.

In Plasma/KDE: System Settings > Workspace Behavior -> General 
Behavior > "Animation speed" is set all the way to right to

"Instant".

In GTK/GNOME: Settings > Accessibility > Seeing > Reduced animation
is turned on.

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Re: [GTALUG] When a web page goes to next level

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Gron Arthur via talk wrote on 2024-04-04 11:31:


Am I a curmudgeon?


Probably - you're here with us, in good company...


I find that it is too distracting, and takes away 
from the content.  It becomes hard to focus on the facts of the story.


I can see your point, but I'm not sure I agree in this case.

i.e. transitioning from a map to areal photograph or drone footage 
really helps envision the transformation of the landscape, for me.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] When a web page goes to next level

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

William Witteman wrote on 2024-04-03 12:07:


I am going to poke around the source and see if I can make any sense of it


There's some pretty fancy things going on, it will not be easy to figure 
out (for me, anyway).



It's quite interesting how, when looking at the Inspect web dev tool, 
one sees the CSS class updating as one scrolls.


i.e. border sizes resize as an item scrolls in & out of view, as well as 
widths, etc.



So much going on, yet it works perfectly (well, there are some errors in 
console, but don't seem to affect anything that I can tell).



rb
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[GTALUG] When a web page goes to next level

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

CBC has a story up today (about "Buried rivers flow under Canadian 
cities...").

> Discover where ancient rivers flow under Canadian cities | CBC News
>
> Ancient rivers once nourished and protected the lands where we built
> our biggest cities. Now, they’re buried underground. Is it finally
> time to let them see daylight?
>
> https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/features/2024/daylighting-rivers/


The design of this page is outstanding! A lot of parallax effects, 
things fade between section, gentle rotation zoom effects, videos,...



I've seen similar on BBC in the past, but even then, this is next-level 
web page design.




I highly recommend scrolling through it, if for simply marvelling at the 
presentation. It's as beautiful as any web design can be.



Kudos to

> Design and development: Andrew McManus, Adam Nyx, CBC News Labs


rb
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Re: [GTALUG] [DISCUSS] Backdoor found in widely used Linux utility

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

L. V. Lammert wrote on 2024-03-29 13:08:


Seems to make the case to only use standard tools like gzip?


Nah, reading further on it (comments on ArsTechnica.com are great - lots
of links to follow), this compromises ssh, you don't need xz.


There's some talk that issues with Postgres and Valgrind were spotted a
while back; unsure if related but sounds quite similar.


Debian, Ubuntu, Macs, and Fedora were all targeted. Mac's "brew" had an
upgrade today of xz from v5.6 to v5.4 - so it was rolled back there.

Ubuntu didn't include the changes; Debian and Fedora did, briefly (as I
understand it).


This could have been on the scale of HeartBleed or larger. If all the
computers running sshd on Debian and Fedora had this vulnerability on
them, it'd be catastrophic.

Ala SolarWinds, etc.


The questions being asked are, who is Jia Tan (JiaT85), and the others
who petitioned to get these updates into other packages - they have
Scandanavian and Indian names, popped up like sock puppets requesting
these "new features in xz get merged", then disappeared.



This was only discovered because someone happened to be testing
something and a ½ second delay in rejecting ssh connections caught his
attention.

Wow, we all just dodged a bullet.


Oops, Kali Linux distributed the backdoor'd code:

https://www.kali.org/blog/about-the-xz-backdoor/

The impact of this vulnerability affected Kali between March 26th to 
March 29th, during which time xz-utils 5.6.0-0.2 was available. If 
you updated your Kali installation on or after March 26th, but

before March 29th, it is crucial to apply the latest updates today
to address this issue.



The Linux kernel uses xz for squashfs compression:

https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20240320183846.19475-1-lasse.col...@tukaani.org/t/



It seems to have made its way into Debian Sid:


After observing a few odd symptoms around liblzma (part of the xz
package) on Debian sid installations over the last weeks (logins with
ssh taking a lot of CPU, valgrind errors) I figured out the answer:

The upstream xz repository and the xz tarballs have been backdoored.


https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2024/03/29/4




Careful: the exploit code ends up in liblzma, which on typical binary
distributions package separately from xz-utils. On vulnerable
distributions, that package gets pulled in (without pulling in
xz-utils) when installing sshd.

So whether the distribution included xz-utils by default doesn't
affect whether you're vulnerable.


https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/backdoor-found-in-widely-used-linux-utility-breaks-encrypted-ssh-connections/?comments=1=42712832







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Re: [GTALUG] [DISCUSS] Backdoor found in widely used Linux utility

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

L. V. Lammert wrote on 2024-03-29 13:08:


Seems to make the case to only use standard tools like gzip?


I'm not sure.

I stick with gzip & bzip myself, but this was an extremely clever 
approach and I'm not sure if xz got targeted because it's a smaller 
developer group or if xz is more gullible.



I suspect everyone's going to be on the lookout going forward for such 
things.


There's already a lot of examining of previous commits by this character 
who integrated themself to a number of packages with innocuous prior 
commits.



Interesting story, and only caught by a series of coincidences (someone 
doing performance testing noticed some timing issues with failed ssh 
attempts and dug into it further).



rb

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[GTALUG] Backdoor found in widely used Linux utility

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Backdoor found in widely used Linux utility breaks encrypted SSH 
connections



Malicious code planted in xz Utils has been circulating for more
than a month.


https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/backdoor-found-in-widely-used-linux-utility-breaks-encrypted-ssh-connections/


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Re: [GTALUG] Securely wiping SSDs

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Giles Orr via talk wrote on 2024-03-23 07:50:


I have, for many years, used "Darik's Boot and Nuke" on a USB stick to
securely wipe spinning hard disks.  It takes a long time, but I mostly
understand and trust the process.


I'm going to take a contrarian stance and suggest that the best way is 
to run a pass or two of `dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/$disk ...` then just 
sell or donate the otherwise usable device.



Our data is valuable, but not *that* valuable.

Anyone coming into possession of a new device is going to think "new 
storage!" not "if I can pull a few bits of data from this device, I can 
destroy someone's life and finances".



They'll plug it in to a computer, it won't be readable at all since it's 
not NTFS, and they'll format it NTFS and store their data on it.


The NSA, etc. isn't out to get us (through forensic data recovery on 
discarded devices).



https://xkcd.com/538/


Also, reduce e-waste and support those that are in dire financial 
straights. Pre-format it with NTFS, download https://gtalug.org onto the 
drive, donate it to someone who'll use it and be thankful for the 
opportunity.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] DOS > bash

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote on 2024-03-22 06:56:


What you want is
rename .sh '' *.sh
which means
for each filename matched by *.sh
change every occurrence of ".sh" in its name
to '' (empty)


Ah, that's a clever idea - the glob at the end so that rename can grab 
the first two parameters and apply those to all the remaining params 
(list of files to operate on).



Thanks

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] DOS > bash

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

William Park via talk wrote on 2024-03-21 18:27:


for I in *.sh ; do mv ${I} ${I%%.sh} done


That will change 'x.sh' to 'x' without trailing dot.


Exactly what's desired.



Ubuntu/Debian distros will include 'rename' where you can use regex.
How does `rename` (a Perl program, I believe?) handle globbing and 
pathname expansion?



i.e. in a folder with 3 files: one.sh, two.sh, file.tar, typing:

rename *.sh *

means rename gets passed these parameters:

one.sh two.sh one.sh two.sh file.tar


I'd be curious how they handle that (I expect requiring params to be 
quoted).



Thanks

rb
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Re: [GTALUG] Debian Live Linux -- Change Overlay Filesystem -- From Tempfs Ramdisk To Hard Drive ?? [was] Re: Debian Live Linux -- Overlay Filesystem -- Where Allocated ??

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Steve Petrie via talk wrote on 2024-03-21 08:19:


some Debian packages I install, *disappear every time I boot my linux
PC, which is often daily*. So, I sometimes find myself occasionally
re-installing a disappeared Debian package.
It might be worth looking into Ventoy for creating a bootable USB stick 
with persistent storage.


I haven't tried it myself, but it gets a lot of attention and sounds 
like it might help your situation.



rb
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[GTALUG] DOS > bash

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Okay, clickbait subject line, but hear me out.


I had a bunch of files called *.sh for backing up stuff.

I decided to use `run-parts` to run the entire folder of shell scripts 
at once.


`run-parts` won't run *.sh files (?!?), they need to be *.s-h or 
something dumb.



I wanted to REName *.sh -> *.


In DOS: `ren *.sh *.`

In bash, that will not work (with file globbing & pathname expansion 
enabled by default).



I had to do this instead:

for I in *.sh ; do
mv ${I} ${I%%.sh}
done


Clearly, DOS > bash.


(Told ya so, Hugh.)

rb
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Re: [GTALUG] .local question

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-02-26 22:43:


I'm creating an experimental NextCloud server.


How'd that go?


Related, did you try switching "mdns4_minimal" in nsswitch.conf to solve 
the .local problem?



rb
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Re: [GTALUG] .local question

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-02-27 15:39:


/etc/nsswitch.conf has a line:
hosts:  files myhostname mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] resolve 
[!UNAVAIL=return] dns

So I'm guessing that the nc.local is being resolved by "myhostname",
not mdns4_minimal.


I don't understand why "myhostname" is in there (but that's probably a 
failing on my part).



What if you switch "myhostname" and "mdns4_minimal" in nsswitch.conf and 
restart whichever services necessary, see if that works?




Fingers crossed it's that simple and you're up & running afterwards.


rb
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Re: [GTALUG] .local question (Off Topic: how did you acquire a /24?)

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

James Knott via talk wrote on 2024-02-27 14:50:


That may be because more & more traffic is moving to IPv6.


I suspect this is the case, although I'm still a bit surprised pricing 
would go down at all.





Also - how does one use them behind a residential ISP?


Probably the way I use my /56 IPv6 prefix.  I route it.


I'm more thinking how does one get an entire /24 routed *to* one's home 
ISP address?


Wouldn't the ISP have to be on board somewhere?

And the AS that controls that /24? Does an AS even have control over it?


/not a networking guru...

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Re: [GTALUG] .local question (Off Topic: how did you acquire a /24?)

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-02-26 22:43:


(I have /24 globally routable IP addresses.)


I'm curious about the story behind how you acquired what's become such a 
rare item?



Also - how does one use them behind a residential ISP?


Do you have your own AS number?



This all sounds quite interesting if you don't mind sharing some of the 
details for the nerdy amongst us.




Thanks,

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] .local question

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-02-26 22:43:


I'm starting to use .local.  So machines declare
their hostname and mDNS / bonjour gets to resolve name.local.  Neat.


I ought to look into using .local myself, instead of when I had DDNS 
running. Sounds interesting.




Tonight I'm creating an experimental NextCloud server.  Let's say it's
hostname is nc.

- ping nc.local works
- ssh nc.local works
- host nc.local works
- Firefox and even links cannot see nc.local.

Why is that?


I'm not sure, but I suspect somehow `ping`, `ssh`, and `host` avoid mDNS 
entirely.



For your situation to work, it appears you need to tweak your 
/etc/nsswitch.conf file:



https://superuser.com/questions/1417190/why-do-i-need-to-change-the-order-of-hosts-in-nsswitch-conf

https://askubuntu.com/questions/678372/chrome-and-firefox-can-not-resolve-the-same-host-name-dig-can


Basically, there should be a line which prioritizes mdns4_minimal over 
dns, similar to:


> hosts: files mdns4_minimal dns


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Re: [GTALUG] Air Canada claims its chatbot is liable, not AC!

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Ron / BCLUG via talk wrote on 2024-02-16 10:35:


I particularly like this part:


Coincidentally, it was just yesterday that I caught one of Canada's most 
talented comedians do a 4 minute skit on dealing with the frustration of 
*human* customer service at "Air Canaday":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kq2SaRwXeo


If my customer support agents behaved like that, I'd consider replacing 
them with chatbots too.


Although the better solution would be retraining (after an introduction 
to corporal punishment).



Very talented writing, acting, and editing on display there.

Truly a Canadian who deserves wider recognition.

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Re: [GTALUG] Air Canada claims its chatbot is liable, not AC!

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Don Tai wrote on 2024-02-16 12:02:


With AI hallucinations being quite common


Yes, but let's not keep stating that as though AIs are the only source 
of bad or wrong information on the internet.



And limiting it to the internet is reductive itself - humans produce 
mountains of wrong information, and worse, sometimes intentionally.


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Re: [GTALUG] Air Canada claims its chatbot is liable, not AC!

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-02-16 08:25:




There's surely more to this story.


Standard operating procedures - "it wasn't us, guv, it was a contractor".


I particularly like this part:

> Air Canada argued Moffatt could have found the correct information
> about bereavement rates on another part of the airline's website.
>
> But as Rivers pointed out, "it does not explain why the webpage titled
> "Bereavement Travel" was inherently more trustworthy than its
> chatbot."
>
> "There is no reason why Mr. Moffatt should know that one section of
> Air Canada's webpage is accurate, and another is not," Rivers wrote.


Also, where CBC looked up any similar cases on CanLII:

>A survey of the Canadian Legal Information Institute — which maintains
> a database of Canadian legal decisions — shows a paucity of cases
> featuring bad advice from chatbots; Moffatt's appears to be the first.

We can bet everything we own that it won't be the last...


rb
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Re: [GTALUG] meeting idea: AI Explorers' Reports

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-02-13 18:49:


AI is an exploding field.  Lots of stuff is new to us.  Many of us are
trying things.

I think that it would be interesting if those of us that have experimented
would chat in a meeting about their experiences.


I've probably mentioned before how I asked ChatGPT to help me write some 
SQL that had utterly confounded me (joining 3 tables and aggregating 
some results).


Its answer was correct (use a cross join between two unrelated tables, A 
& C, then aggregate against table B).


I was impressed.


The other day I watched a Fireship YouTube channel compare ChatGPT 4 vs 
Gemini.



He fed each some minified JS and the results not just de-minified it, 
but explained what it did.  Nice.



Then, he asked "write a poem about JavaScript in the style of Bukowski".

ChatGPT gave up and wrote something in the style of a limerick or something.

Gemini - wow, that was some very impressive writing!

A dark and moody poem about writing JS through the night, full of angst, 
it seemed pretty spot on from what I remember about Bukowski's writing 
style.


Interesting and advanced rhyming schemes used too.


I foresee a lot of use in both creative writing and writing & debugging 
software.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Odd Ethernet Behaviour

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Alvin Starr via talk wrote on 2024-02-12 20:38:

Honestly, I won’t do that.  About three weeks ago I had gotten 
approval for a new static ip address, at which point I asked for them 
to allow me to ssh to that address.  I was *refused* and told I had to 
use a VPN because they “have to protect shh from the internet.”  (!!!)


So, why not set up a VPN?



This is a risk unaware Microsoft centric answer.


It's a "Why are there incoming connections to our network?!? And what is 
their purpose? And where do they end up? Who is controlling them?" issue.


Imagine being in charge of a large network and seeing countless 
connections to end points inside the network and having no idea what 
they're doing - that *should* scare any IT / network admin.




And this is not just a government issue its a big company based issue.


Yup, agreed 100%.


My personal belief is that companies believe that if they pay for the 
service then they have someone they can sue if things go wrong.
Look at the recent set of remote access and data migration products that 
have had VERY large corporate and government customers and big security 
breaches.


And suing after the fact accomplishes pretty much nothing. Data is 
"gone", reputation is ruined, time is wasted recovering, etc.



It's more like, "here's a product we trust to manage incoming 
connections, and if everyone's using this then we can control our 
network much better".


Whether the trust is misplaced or not in any specific product, the idea 
is valid.




But seriously if you can find a service that they will port forward to 
your computer you can then just put SSH on that port and have your access.


Doubtful that IT is going to assist with port forwarding or any method 
of allowing un-monitored and unfettered incoming connections.


Better would be to:

a) install a VPN like IT said
b) use ssh to connect to an outside computer with reverse-tunnelling (I 
forget the term here) and go in through the outside computer



My 2¢

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Odd Ethernet Behaviour

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Peter King via talk wrote on 2024-02-12 13:56:


Ethtool says the new card is running at 1000Mb/s.


That's the link speed, not necessarily reflective of the bandwidth 
provided by upstream.



A different computer behind the same switch (which claims to have 
gigabit ethernet: TP-Link AC1750) also gets those upload and download 
speeds.


It is, of course, possible that the UofT has throttled my bandwidth, or 
the bandwidth to the building I am located in.


That's where my suspicion immediately goes (or the switch itself if not 
the building).



Maybe open a ticket with support as a next step?  They ought to be able 
to clarify what speed you should be getting.



rb
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Re: [GTALUG] An anomaly with the `date` command

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Colin McGregor via talk wrote on 2024-01-30 14:14:


For calendar oddities try typing the following into a BASH terminal :

cal 9 1752

The seemingly odd result will be correct for what is now Halifax, Nova
Scotia, but incorrect for what is now Quebec City, Quebec. Anyone know
why?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Style_1752

> dropped 3–13 September to transition to the Gregorian calendar.[1]
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Re: [GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Steve Petrie via talk wrote on 2024-01-16 05:41:

A. SSO (single sign on) -- Is it an SSO offer, when my Firefox 
browser "helpfully" asks me if I would like it [my browser] to 
"remember" my login credentials ??


No, SSO where one signs in to a site they've never visited via their 
Google or GitHub account, for example.




I always respond in the NEGATIVE to these "helpful"  browser offers.


So, you type in user and password every time you log into every site?


I can't imagine the internet being very useful in that case, but 
everyone's got different risk tolerances, plus I may be misunderstanding 
your method of logging in to sites.


I guess I don't understand how having one's browser save username and 
(hopefully long) password combos gets "scare quotes" around "helpful".



rb

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[GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Alvin Starr via talk wrote on 2024-01-12 20:11:

It is defiantly not useful for getting correct technical answers to 
problems.


That's not my experience.

I guess that depends on the definition of "correct technical answers", 
because it (i.e. ChatGPT) can be excellent at giving correct answers to 
technical (coding) problems.



Got an SQL problem that requires a contrived joining of multiple tables 
and have tried every left-join / right-join, CTE / subquery combo and 
just can't get it to work after *hours* of trying?



Feed the problem into ChatGPT and get a correct answer in seconds.


Got some weird behaviour in JS where asynchronous code and variable 
scoping issues are colliding to give weird behaviour?


Feed the code to ChatGPT, ask "what's wrong", and have it spit out 
corrected code *AND* and explanation of what's wrong with the code it 
was provided.



Stunning.


And, it's just a generic LLM.  I've heard experienced developers saying 
surprisingly positive things about GitHub's Copilot for quite a while now.




As for the SQL issue - all search queries on Qwant / DDG / Google lead 
to "how to join tables in SQL"; utterly useless. I know that reasonably 
well.



And, who hasn't had a search lead them to StackOverflow where the 
highest rated answer is strongly condemned further in the comments as 
being wrong / out of date / insecure, etc.?


Lots of incorrect answers supplied by humans.


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] lazy jail server admin forced to act

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

ac via talk wrote on 2024-01-08 02:22:


the ~ means if it is not from your servers it is also okay.

the - means ONLY from your severs.


The link I posted earlier (linuxbabe.com) had an interesting take on "~" 
vs "-" and why the former is preferable:


If a multi-host (postfix) site receives your mail (like Google?) and it 
gets relayed between their servers (perhaps main one is down for 
maintenance), and the final server gets the mail from the backup, sees 
"-", it may reject it.


Not sure if this is correct, but did cause pause for thought and am 
considering changing "-" to "~" on my domains.





Your SPF "should" maybe say:

mimosa.com. IN  TXT "v=spf1 +a +mx
+ip4:206.248.139.113 +ip4:98.158.128.23"


If I recall correctly, it's best to put IP addresses earlier in the list 
to save DNS look-ups, saving a tiny bit of time.



> (Your post did not include the "+" BEFORE the mx in the entry...)

True, and I agree it's best to include them to be as specific as 
possible on the author's intentions, however the "+" is the default, 
hence implied.


But, I agree, use them anyway.


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] lazy jail server admin forced to act

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-01-07 19:29:

You probably need to add a google authentication record to your 
domain name to | reduce the chance of your email messages being 
rejected by gmail.


I don't know what that is.

Googling responses suggest you might be talking about a Google 
Worspace thing.  I don't have a Google Workspace.


Yeah, I don't think Google authentication is useful for email:

https://support.google.com/a/answer/183895?hl=en.


Verify your domain with a TXT record

Why do I need to do this?

We don't want someone else to use your domain to sign up for Google 
Workspace. You can help us keep your domain safe by showing us that 
you are the owner.



Have you verified your SPF and DKIM via some online site such as:

https://mxtoolbox.com/dkim.aspx ?


Also, do you have IPv6 on your server?  Is postfix using it?  That'll 
probably fix Gmail spam issues, seems most Gmail is via IPv6.



rb
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Re: [GTALUG] lazy jail server admin forced to act

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-01-07 09:27:


Mails from my domain have started to be rejected by gmail.
To placate gmail, I've added an SPF record to my doman:


Another trick to help with email delivery to Google is to implement IPv6 
in Postfix if it's available.



rb
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Re: [GTALUG] lazy jail server admin forced to act

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-01-07 10:10:


| You may find that you need DKIM and DMARC as well. If you’re using
| postfix it’s fairly easy to hook opendkim in.

| My biggest hurdle was trying to find clear concise guides.

Links?


https://www.linuxbabe.com/mail-server/setting-up-dkim-and-spf



| How to read this:

|   mx:
|   email sent by mimosa.com should only come from its servers
|   declared in MX DNS records

In other words, this test only marks good things.  Then the "~all" says 
anything that isn't good is bad.


More "untrustworthy, use your own judgment" than out-and-out bad (as I 
understand it).


The link above has me reconsidering my choice of -all, I need to review 
my domains and SPF records to ensure I'm using ~all instead of -all.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] meeting Tuesday?

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2024-01-05 22:58:


The venue might be changed from our Big Blue Button room.  Our host, LPI,
was set to switch from BBB to some NextCloud facility.

If we don't get further directions, try
   https://blue.lpi.org/b/eva-zjc-gjy-kgl


If the BBB site isn't working when the meeting time rolls around (it is 
loading now - just tested it), there was an email to Ops list with 
Nextcloud account credentials for GTALUG.



We could give that a try for a meeting.


GTALUG user has ability to create users, so any Ops list members can 
have a look around and even create a user for personal use.



There's a Talk room set up, and a spreadsheet with the beginnings of a 
collection of Canadian LUG contacts.



rb
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Re: [GTALUG] Debian 12 takes too long to boot and login

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Giles Orr wrote on 2023-12-17 15:19:


One of my favourite recent discoveries are the abilities of
`systemd-analyze`.  `systemd-analyze blame` shows how long every step
in the boot process took.  It's worth looking at, but doesn't account
for the fact that many of these things run in parallel.  So to better
understand what's causing the_real_  delays, try `systemd-analyze
critical-chain`.  The output is fascinating and I hope helpful ... but
please keep in mind that I never got further than that so I can't tell
you how to speed up the problem areas ...  But the last command may at
least focus your search in the `dmesg` output.


This is an excellent tool!

Thanks for bringing it up; I'm embarrassed to have forgotten to mention it.


I just looked at mine and it's quite revealing.


I recall now someone having slow boot issues and looking at their 
`systemd-analyze` output, it took a couple seconds to see that postfix 
was the culprit.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Debian 12 takes too long to boot and login

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Kevin Cozens via talk wrote on 2023-12-17 14:43:

Any clues as to why Debian takes 4 to 5 times as long? I'm hoping there 
is some bad configuration out of the box causing Debian 12 to be acting 
so slow. Anyone have any ideas where I should start looking? If I can't 
get to the bottom of the problem I will be staying with Linux Mint. 


Try `dmesg | less` and see if anything eye-catching is in there.


Also, `journalctl` with some option like `--boot=-1` for *previous* boot 
logs, or for running in Mint with separate partitioning, `journalctl 
--directory=/path/to/debian/logs`.



Note that `journalctl -k` or `journalctl --dmesg` will show only kernel 
messages, like `dmesg`...



Hope this helps somehow.

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] tiny GNAME change that I don't like

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2023-12-17 09:23:


Am I the only one who cares about the loss of this feature?


Probably not, and I hope you find a suitable solution, but Gnome + loss 
of features = why people move away from Gnome. It's become a meme.



I've heard Gnome is better for accessibility and *maybe* HiDPI, but for 
all the built-in tools (file managers, text editors, terminal / 
consoles, etc. ad nauseam), the tools are of higher calibre in KDE 
world. And feature non-removal is, itself, a feature.



Sorry I can't otherwise contribute to the issue at hand.
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Re: [GTALUG] AI Alliance

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote on 2023-12-06 09:49:

I've been saying for some time that GTALUG badly needs a serious 
conversation on scope and focus.


This evening's meeting feels, in retrospect, quite fruitful in this regard.



We now need to be advocates for openness in the cloud and AI.


And on this topic, I'd like to drop a mention of the newest Hot Thing™
in AI: Mistral, an upstart French challenger to OpenAI et al:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/12/new-french-ai-model-makes-waves-by-matching-gpt-3-5-on-benchmarks/

That means we're closer to having a ChatGPT-3.5-level AI assistant 
that can run freely and locally on our devices, given the right 
implementation.



ArsTechnica user 4qu4rius made a comment with a link to a blog post 
supposedly from Google AI devs, saying:


We’ve done a lot of looking over our shoulders at OpenAI. Who will 
cross the next milestone? What will the next move be?


But the uncomfortable truth is, we aren’t positioned to win this
arms race and neither is OpenAI. While we’ve been squabbling, a
third faction has been quietly eating our lunch.

I’m talking, of course, about open source. Plainly put, they are 
lapping us.


https://www.semianalysis.com/p/google-we-have-no-moat-and-neither


(https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/12/new-french-ai-model-makes-waves-by-matching-gpt-3-5-on-benchmarks/?comments=1=42429450)



So, interesting times where only 54 weeks ago, OpenAI devs shocked the 
world with the release of ChatGPT 3.x, and now devs in the field are 
being shocked by open sourced (Apache licensed) AIs.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Browsers (and Thorium to be specific)

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote on 2023-11-24 08:07:

Thorium  is basic Chrome that is compile-time 
optimized for new CPUs.

Still does Chrome sync and plugin store.
Won't run on any system that doesn't have an AVX2-capable CPU.
As a result, it claims a conventional Chrome experience but noticeably 
faster.


Apparently the same dev has done the same to Firefox, called Mercury 



Oh, now that does sound interesting!

I don't think my old box has AVX2 support (nope, just AVX).


I'm usually quite hesitant / skeptical around "boutique" browsers since 
it takes so much skill and talent (quantitatively and qualitatively) to 
implement properly.


Usually someone's trying a browser because it's "not bloated" with 
things that... are web standards. I don't trust my browsing to their 
competence.



This Thorium project (Mercury, actually) does sound very interesting.


If you give it a try, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Browsers (and Thorium to be specific)

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Don Tai via talk wrote on 2023-11-23 15:46:

I by default don't run JS, and then with the Noscript plugin, grant js 
access. Many sites will block you without JS running. Though I depend on 
FF, which usually works, I don't mind if web sites crack and don't 
render well.


I ran with default no JS for years and years, then I just stopped.

Wasn't worth the breakage, and for a good decade or so now many of the 
best & brightest developers have been hired by big tech to implement 
safer, more sand-boxed JS environments.



I think I have U-Block set to disable 3rd party scripts, all the rest 
allowed by default, blocked if problematic.



A much more pleasant web experience.


I like to point out that if it weren't for the capabilities that modern 
JS has, we'd be trying to have monthly meetings with Win32 apps in WINE, 
faffing about constantly with tech issues, probably having to resort to 
mobile devices, ...


Linux would be largely unusable for a lot of modern web usage.

I've become kinda fond of poor ol' JavaScript, it doesn't deserve the 
reputation it has.



rb
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Re: [GTALUG] mbox vs Maildir [was Re: Linux friendly email providers?]

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2023-11-23 22:20:

I don't remember seeing that corruption in the last few decades of using 
mbox.


I didn't notice it 'til transferring providers and looking back at old 
message folders. No idea how long it's been lurking around.


Probably nothing of value lost, but ... data loss is enough to make me 
very, very concerned.



The horrors of in-band signalling are well known -- maybe the 
software I use reflects that knowledge.


Pretty sure a power outage while writing to a multi-megabyte file would 
be enough corrupt it with most software? Unless some form of atomic 
transactions / file system journal is used?


And when all messages are in one file, it can cascade. Apparently.


Particularly annoying when a screen full of messages (in the messages 
pane) have no subject, date, correspondents, and looking into the mbox 
there are HTML messages, and mime encoded parts - a nightmare to try to fix.



As John pointed out, a "From" mid message needs special handling too - I 
don't know if that is handled differently in Maildir, but sure feels 
like a sloppy hack.




You mentioned that you were running out of space on your system. If a 
lot of that space is mail messages, I would bet that Maildir is costing 
you a lot of it. Each message is taking a multiple of the allocation 
unit size (1KB? 4KB?) and a large part of that is likely unused (the 
tail of the last unit). My intuition would be that since mail messages 
are usually short, and the distribution of sizes isn't uniform, you are 
probably using at least 25% more disk space with Maildir.


Probably true, but if a file gets corrupted, I only lose one message, 
and it's more likely to be recoverable.



Also, consider RAID-1: 100% extra disk space versus storage capacity.

Often seen as worthwhile, for similar reasons.


I dunno, I may decide to switch back, but so far it's been working well.



If anyone's considering running Maildir, I recommend the layout=FS 
option set in mail_location.


Otherwise a folder structure like:

Archives/2023/11

shows 3 entries in the file system of server like:

.Archives
.Archives.2023
.Archives.2023.11

Ugh.


Cheers,

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] roundcube test, is Linux friendly email providers?

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Karen Lewellen wrote on 2023-11-23 15:03:


I engaged the keystroke on the submit button, getting a 510 server error.


I had a quick look for a 510 error and didn't see anything.

Will have another look later.


When I raised the JavaScript friendly lever, moving next to the links as 
an a chain browser, I learned why.
here the coding on that send button just says button, as in not intended 
to work with the entre key.
final JavaScript friendly  more graphical browser, elinks, which can be 
built that way shows the button coded as harmless.
from a web contact access guideline standpoint, that hints at someone 
using JavaScript 0,  which is an absolute shame because from my simple 
test absolutely everything else works.


I see there's a JS event tied to the send button, but it seems innocuous:

function onclick(event) {
return rcmail.command('send', '', this, event)
}



Way to reach their support team?


There's an Issues header link at this URL:

https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail

There are 299 currently shown.

That'd be the best way to see what a resolution might look like.


This could be quite an amazing tool, perhaps there is a configuration 
that fixes this issue?


I don't think so; not aware of anything off the top of my head.

Anyone else here know RoundCube?



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Browsers (and Thorium to be specific)

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote on 2023-11-23 11:38:

It is pretty annoying that chrome has become the new IE. Lots of web 
developers only use chrome and don't care that their javascript or html 
doesn't work on other browsers anymore.


I too find it annoying.

Especially since the standards are so well implemented by all (both) the 
major browsers, and the cutting edge features should gracefully degrade 
but not break the site.



Any examples of a site that doesn't work with Firefox?


I might give one a try; it's beautiful and sunny outside and I'm not 
just not feeling angry enough.  Need something to fix that.




rb
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux friendly email providers?

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Karen Lewellen wrote on 2023-11-22 22:10:


 2, either allows for user name / password log in directly with a web
 interface,


RoundCube web interface okay?

>
actually, you would be doing a number of people a huge favor if I can 
test this.
While roundcube has been suggested, there is some confusion around how 
well it can function with speech.

so, delighted to test that theory for sure.


A test account has been set up and credentials sent off-list.


Please let us know how RoundCube works for you.


I forgot to mention, but there's a plugin enabled in RoundCube allowing 
you to change your password.



Let us know how well it works, and good luck!

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Linux friendly email providers?

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Karen Lewellen wrote on 2023-11-22 22:10:

Will I have say a folder for the sent mail, one for my current 
inbox..allowing me to clear some of that down, my contact list?


Contact list - that's not really part of email as I understand it.

However, I could set up contacts & calendaring on one of my Nextcloud 
instances.




In short  if you remember what basic gmail look like?


Not at all.



I suppose you create a spam folder as well?


I believe it's set up to auto-create folders when required.

i.e. a brand new account only has Inbox.

Sending a first message ought to create Sent.  etc.


As for spam, I'm actually not running any normal spam filtering.

With the smtp rules locked in place, the only spam I've encountered is 
some persistent Canada Post campaign coming from various IPs.


I may add that to my home-made mail filter that I'm working on.


With the checks in place before accepting email, it seems very little 
gets through.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Linux friendly email providers?

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Howard Gibson via talk wrote on 2023-11-22 21:06:

Handy tip folks -- Start your emails with a line feed at the top of the 
page. This will separate your content from the blurb corporate email 
servers will attach warning your recipients how evil and dangerous you 
are.


This is an interesting idea. I've seen mbox files get corrupted (all 
mailbox messages in one file, and a line like "From: " is the message 
delimiter. Terrible!)


So, blank line might help with that.


I've recently switched to using Maildir format (server *and* 
Thunderbird).  One message per file.


Thunderbird says it's not fully supported, but it works fine. The 
unsupported features are in how Maildir *renames* a file (often also 
with moving it via hard linking) to reflect changes in status (Read, etc.)


The Read, replied-to, etc. are stored elsewhere in Thunderbird.


I am considering taking out a URL for my website. If I contract 
with a service that provide email, I should be able to download that 
through popmail, right?


Unsure what's meant by "taking out a URL" -- registering a domain?

Anyway, POP should be provided by all email services (except Google 
apparently), it's literally a single line or 3 of configuration file 
entries and is probably enabled by default. So, those that don't offer 
it have to remove the feature (as I understand it).


Also, it saves on disk space if the user immediately downloads and 
deletes the messages, and that's a significant resource - disk space.


At least, it is in my situation.



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Re: [GTALUG] Linux friendly email providers?

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Karen Lewellen wrote on 2023-11-22 22:10:



1, allow me to export all of my gmail content to them.


I could provide that ability, see below.


I may need to get a better picture, have never used Thunderbird.


I've been thinking a lot about this. Thunderbird being a GUI, it may be
difficult for you to use.

And, I'm completely unfamiliar with Alpine / Mutt.


Chances are, the Gmail messages are stored locally in mbox format (all
messages for a mailbox / folder are stored in one file).


My server stores in the Maildir (one message per file) format.

Hence, a tool like Thunderbird can help here.


Need to think on this more.



2, either allows for user name / password log in directly with a
 web interface,


RoundCube web interface okay?


actually, you would be doing a number of people a huge favor if I can
test this. While roundcube has been suggested, there is some 
confusion around how well it can function with speech. so, delighted

 to test that theory for sure.


I will set up something for you to try. Was hoping to have it ready now,
but... /excuses



or where I can ssh into a shell or workspace and find an email 
client, think Alpine for example.


Can you run Alpine locally in your DOS-like environment?

I ask, because I could provide ssh access, *but*, email is stored under
a virtual user's account, not individual Linux users' accounts.

So, ssh-ing in would still require connecting to the server (localhost)
via IMAP and smtp; no file system access to messages.

Unless I can think up some hack with hard-links?





Hmmm. Hadn't considered that.

Perhaps ssh with ForceCommand=/usr/bin/alpine ?


um... my lack of direct Linux awareness is showing. Still, perhaps?


That was just me thinking out loud - it'd be an option set on the 
server's sshd_config file.



If it helps, I ssh into  the shell  dreamhost provides my office, 
finding alpine there. Better example, i use  the current compile of 
sshdos to reach shellworld, which is rooted in Ubuntu.


Can I just say, it's great that you're able to use ssh in your 
environment, and kudos!



 there are 
browsers that can provide the what to do with an email link,

assuming that the interface does not manage the job..but you likely
know this.


I wish I knew more about the various aria settings for web devs to 
enable accessibility. Seems the features are there but often overlooked.




How much storage does your email use? My VPS is fairly restricted 
on space (it can be upgraded).

>
Oh there is allot I can dump, of course if I can ever see it again. 
Not much of the standard gmail would provide..what sort of limit?


At the moment, I'm using 96% of my storage(!). Looks like I've got deal 
with that, and quickly.


How much storage depends on how much $. It's not expensive, I'd have to 
look at the pricing.




As far as "exporting" from another account - I used Thunderbird to
 drag & drop all messages between (active) IMAP accounts when 
setting up new system.

>
How does that look exactly? Will I have say a folder for the sent 
mail, one for my current inbox..allowing me to clear some of that 
down, my contact list? In short  if you remember what basic gmail 
look like? I suppose you create a spam folder as well?


When migrating, I set up a new account m...@domain.tld with IMAP & smtp 
set to new domain IPs, use Thunderbird to copy all messages / folders 
from m...@domain.tld account (with IMAP pointing to old IPs) to 
m...@domain.tld, then rename on server and in Thunderbird me2@ to me@.


It's a bit convoluted.  I could probably come up with something better, 
but having 2 sets of servers serving m...@domain.tld is always going to be 
awkward.





Another question - were you wanting your own domain, or is the 
domain irrelevant?


I had not considered the question, too busy seeking mail client ideas
and getting very very confused. as it turns out I have two domains
that are kept at gkg.net, but are not associated with a hosting plan.
if that is  too complicated,


It should be do-able without too much difficulty.

Most of my domains are @FirstnameLastname.tld which wouldn't be 
appropriate. But I have a couple others to use; migration of those 
should be done by end of month.




Sorry this took so long to put together.

Still trying to anticipate any / all obstacles.


I'll set up a test account and send you a link to RoundCube - interested 
to hear about how that works.



rb
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux friendly email providers?

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

Karen Lewellen via talk wrote on 2023-11-22 18:25:

let me be more specific..some of you tech wizards run your own mail 
servers laughs.


I'm guilty of putting myself through that.  Have run email on a small 
domain for a few years and am in the process of moving several more to 
an entirely new system.


Been *really* deep in the various configuration options for multi-domain 
email setup.



for context, although google is removing access to basic html in 
January, they pulled my access to it early..and without warning on Monday.


Oh no!

Yet another step in the ongoing decline of Google.



So, what I am seeking now is a provider that  can..
  1, allow me to export all of my gmail content to them.


I could provide that ability, see below.


2, either allows for user name / password log in directly with a web 
interface,


RoundCube web interface okay?


or where I can ssh into a shell or workspace and find an 
email client, think Alpine for example.


Hmmm. Hadn't considered that.

Perhaps ssh with ForceCommand=/usr/bin/alpine ?


3, where I can also send email, in theory once I have all of my gmail 
content, I can set that email to forward without losing access to a 
great deal of personal, professional, and legal files.

Yes, something like Mutt might or might be configured for imap.gmail.com
However, I am not a programmer, and given all the changes google is 
making, wonder how long they will allow third party access of that type.
Would rather locate something Linux friendly,  and even pay for a door 
then need to construct my own house if that makes sense.

any good options?


I've considered offering email services, this might be something I could do.


How much storage does your email use? My VPS is fairly restricted on 
space (it can be upgraded).



As far as "exporting" from another account - I used Thunderbird to drag 
& drop all messages between (active) IMAP accounts when setting up new 
system.





Another question - were you wanting your own domain, or is the domain 
irrelevant?




Cheers,

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) torque spec of impact wrench

[Ron / BCLUG via talk]

William Park via talk wrote on 2023-11-03 00:07:

Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque? 


I think the impacting has an effect, else the tools wouldn't have it (it 
requires clutches and other extras that must be there for a reason).




  In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?


I'm thinking a resounding yes.


I've got one of these:

> 
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/maximum-8-5a-nut-busting-corded-single-speed-impact-wrench-with-led-work-light-1-2-in-0542099p.0542099.html?rq=impact+wrench+maximum#srp



My only gripe is that it is single-speed, not variable speed.

But it's handled anything I've thrown at it.

Lists for $150, often on sale for $99.

Might want an impact rated socket to match the lug nut size.


Also, like Evan said, penetrating oil (can use ATF fluid instead).


Also, application of heat to lug nuts can expand them enough to help - 
got a torch?




Good luck.

Ron

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Re: [GTALUG] journalctl / systemctl [was: Re: Debian has suddenly become unstable]

[BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2023-10-12 08:02:

I'd also prefer "journalctl" to be shorter to type. Also, ctl seems to 
be redundant: what other command can you give the journal? On my system, 
"jou" TAB completes to "journalctl".


Yeah, the length of the names, especially `systemctl` having competing 
tab completions up to `systemc` has always been a bit of a PITA.



I really ought to set up an alias, but I'm too lazy, so suffer through 
typing the full command. Maybe this'll prompt me to make an alias, 
*finally*.

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Re: [GTALUG] Debian has suddenly become unstable

[BCLUG via talk]

Bob Jonkman via talk wrote on 2023-10-11 22:02:


One thought might be to disable cups (`journalctl disable --now cups`)


Did you mean 'systemctl disable --now cups'  ???


Yes, I meant that. "Oops!"


Thanks for catching that Bob...


rb

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[GTALUG] RISC-V presentation -- join now

[BCLUG via talk]

https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-china-tech-war-risc-v-chip-technology-emerges-new-battleground-2023-10-06/


Further to RISC-V, there's an interesting presentation going on *right 
now* at the St Louis LUG/UUG:


> MAIN: Risc-V Architecture Differences


https://us06web.zoom.us/j/83629156939?pwd=Aae1zXZi6LUJN9b6nKzz8fM9Lt7XuK.1


Come & join us - this guy's really well informed.


rb
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Re: [GTALUG] Debian has suddenly become unstable

[BCLUG via talk]

Giles Orr via talk wrote on 2023-10-11 15:30:

debugging Linux crashes. The `dmesg` command is useless, as it only 
shows the log since the last boot.


The tool for inspecting previous boot logs would be:

## Logs from *previous* boot for `lp` and `cups`:
`journalctl --boot -1 --unit lp --unit cups`



I noticed was this, the only line of consequence about a millisecond
before the reboot: 2023-10-10T11:36:23.839046-04:00 sli7d 
systemd-modules-load[399]: Inserted module 'lp'


I don't have a printer, and I hadn't just done a "print-to-PDF" or 
anything like that


One thought might be to disable cups (`journalctl disable --now cups`)
and see if that helps (Common Unix Print Service)...



Is it possible that Samba was triggering "lp"-related stuff which was
causing the crash?


That's possible - I can't recall much about samba, but maybe look into
printer(s) is/are being shared and disable that feature.



I suppose I could reboot and select and older kernel and see if that
was stable ... Suggestions on how to better debug this would be most
welcome. Does blacklisting the "lp" module sound like a good idea?


Those also sound like good ideas.


Good luck.
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Re: [GTALUG] How do I get wlan0 interface for WiFi with any MAC

[BCLUG via talk]

Kevin Cozens via talk wrote on 2023-10-11 12:05:

What udev(?) rule do I need to add to have the WiFi device come up as 
wlan or wlan0 regardless of the MAC address that may be associated with 
the WiFi device?


My first thought: netplan, and found a link explaining it here:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1317036/how-to-rename-a-network-interface-in-20-04


Basically, in /etc/netplan/10-my-config.yaml:

  ethernets:
enp2s0:
  match:
macaddress: $my_mac_address
  set-name: eth0

Then, `netplan try`, and if the syntax is okay, there's a 120 second 
timer to go to another terminal and `ip link` to see if you now have 
`eth0`. It will auto-revert if one doesn't press [Enter] during the 120 
second timer.



Worked for me...



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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[BCLUG via talk]

Peter King via talk wrote on 2023-10-11 08:50:


Checked the logs, which wasn't helpful; there was no persistent log


Unsure of your setup, but this may be useful for someone:

## See the selection of previous boot logs:
journalctl --list-boots

## Check the logs from the *previous* boot:
journalctl --boot -1

## To check the *previous* boot logs for udev and postfix
## (random examples):
journalctl --boot -1 --unit udev* --unit postfix



## If booted from USB and wanting to check previous non-USB boot,
## add a --directory pointing to the HD:
journalctl --directory /mnt/myHD/var/log/journal/... --boot -1



etc.


Was very concerned about "systemd is using binary logging, this breaks 
everything!" way back when, however...


Turns out, journalctl is pretty powerful and has some really great features.

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Re: [GTALUG] help moving a hard drive into a different computer?

[BCLUG via talk]

Karen Lewellen via talk wrote on 2023-09-25 16:09:

I'm afraid I'm a bit far away to be able to assist with installing a 
hard drive in person, but this caught my eye:



my cell phone having someone accessing its sim code to dial it remotely


I'm going to guess your phone number is showing up in the call display 
on other phones?


If that's accurate, it's just spoofing of the call display system. As 
far as I know, it's extremely unlikely someone's accessed you SIM card 
remotely.


That would require you to be a target of a nation-state level adversary, 
and even then might be unlikely.



But spoofing call display info is trivial for robo-callers, spammers, 
and scammers.



So, unless anyone points out errors in my understanding, you can 
probably rest assured that your mobile device is safe.




Best of luck with the hard drive,

Ron (rb)

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Re: [GTALUG] Ad Hoc network Question On Ubuntu

[BCLUG via talk]

Jim Ruxton via talk wrote on 2023-09-21 12:26:

Is there a way to set the IP address 
for the ad hoc network via the command line?


Try `nmcli` - network manager CLI - it handles a lot of that kind of 
stuff and has handy tab-completion.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Introduction (really just a new nick)

[BCLUG via talk]

joeDoe via talk wrote on 2023-09-20 12:27:

> I'm looking for a new provider as mine
> changed their offer and it doesn't suit me so much any more.

Gandi.net?

They've recently switched their policy from 3 free 3GB mailboxes per 
domain registered to zero, instead charging $5 / month for one 10GB mailbox.


It's like they want customers to leave.  I understand running email is a 
nightmare, but I imagine quite a few customers will go elsewhere. They 
got me for one month's fee already.



I'm gonna try a VPS at https://websavers.ca - CAD $5/m is reasonable for 
a VPS. 2GB RAM, only 10GB storage; that's okay.




But, I've been experimenting with running my own email server as part of 
a Freedombox (a Debian Pure Blend).


Interesting, I just was looking at a .ca site featuring FreedomBox.

I'd noticed a rejected email in my mail server logs due to no PTR record 
for the sending domain.  I think it's *your* server, in fact.



I've not got a PTR record on mine at the moment, checking in with 
support on websavers.ca to see how that works.  Their "Client Centre" is 
standard with each account, and PTR records can be managed there. Nice.




rb

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Re: [GTALUG] looking for a general purpose boot media to keep in case of distasters

[BCLUG via talk]

[Re-sending this message, didn't get copy. Apologies if duplicate.]



bitmap via talk wrote on 2023-09-20 10:02:

Does this OpenSUSE image come with a broad range of tools? The debian, 
ubuntu, manjaro and others I have lying around are just the very basics. 
Am often missing something needed.


I seem to recall that Knoppix was a popular distro for repairing broken 
systems. This may be out-dated though.



Also, ventoy is a tool that allows multiple bootable distros on a single 
USB stick, and I think allows some persistent storage.


i.e. Use ventoy to install knoppix / whatever on a stick, boot the stick 
and install any missing tools, configure sshd, add scripts, etc., then 
next boot time everything ought to be available.



I haven't yet tried this myself, just giving my 2¢ on how I'd approach 
things.



rb
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Re: [GTALUG] looking for a general purpose boot media to keep in case of distasters

[BCLUG via talk]

bitmap via talk wrote on 2023-09-20 10:02:

Does this OpenSUSE image come with a broad range of tools? The debian, 
ubuntu, manjaro and others I have lying around are just the very basics. 
Am often missing something needed.


I seem to recall that Knoppix was a popular distro for repairing broken 
systems. This may be out-dated though.



Also, ventoy is a tool that allows multiple bootable distros on a single 
USB stick, and I think allows some persistent storage.


i.e. Use ventoy to install knoppix / whatever on a stick, boot the stick 
and install any missing tools, configure sshd, add scripts, etc., then 
next boot time everything ought to be available.



I haven't yet tried this myself, just giving my 2¢ on how I'd approach 
things.



rb
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Re: [GTALUG] Websites down after upgrade

[BCLUG via talk]

William Witteman wrote on 2023-09-15 07:03:


FIXED!

I looked at /etc/apache2/ports.conf, and the "Listen 443" directives are 
wrapped in a conditional that requires the ssl module.


So I ran
sudo a2enmod ssl
...and then
sudo systemctl restart apache2

Now all my sites are back. Thank you!


That's awesome, congrats on having everything back up!


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Websites down after upgrade

[BCLUG via talk]

William Witteman via talk wrote on 2023-09-15 05:47:

The websites are a mix of static pages and Wordpress blogs - all Virtual 
Hosts.


None of them resolve, and I am getting "unable to connect" messages - 
but nothing is showing up in the /var/log/apache2/error.log or the 
access.log.


Do the vhosts have separate log files? If so, anything in those 
indicating an issue?



Apache is running - I can see the restarts in the error log - but 
nothing is happening when I try to hit a page.


Anything revealed by running

`curl --head $site`
`curl --head --location $site`

?


Does this ring any bells for anyone? Is there a new configuration 
wrinkle that I didn't adapt to?


I don't run Debian, it doesn't ring any bells, but I thought I'd throw a 
couple ideas out there to see if it helps at all.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] mail oddity [was Re: Debian Linux as-a-router Guide]

[BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2023-09-08 07:04:


I sent this yesterday.
To talk@gtalug.org  and jamonat...@gmail.com
I got a bounce message from ubuntu-users-ow...@lists.ubuntu.com
("Post by non-member to a members-only list")

How would this get to the ubuntu users list with my address on it?

| From: Jamon Camisso via talk
| To:talk@gtalug.org
| Cc: Jamon Camisso
| Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 14:54:30 -0400
| Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Debian Linux as-a-router Guide


There's something weird going on in the world of mailing lists.


First, it appears Jamon works/worked at Canonical, so there's a 
tangential relation to lists.ubuntu.com.



Two days ago, I got a weird message from someone I barely know via a LUG 
that was "Checking in" and "Is this email still valid for you? There is 
something important I'd like to discuss."


Checking list archives, the From: was valid, but the ReplyTo: had a 
couple extra numbers on the end, then a different domain.



Very odd. Maybe he was hacked? The mailing list itself?


Then, yesterday I awoke to a flood of incoming bounce messages from *MY* 
mail server.


Someone logged into my server as ad...@bclug.ca (SASL plain auth), and 
started sending messages full of base64-encoded attachments (spam).



That scared me - how did this happen?!?


I shut down postfix, archived the queue then analyzed it, then deleted 
it. Changed my SASL password (a very lengthy one before & after), and it 
appears to be okay now?




Maybe there's some automated attack going on against small Linux email 
lists / servers?




Also, there was a back-scatter issue a few / several months ago 
targeting a user and/or mailing list in SF.




TL;DR:

I dunno why you got the bounce from Ubuntu lists.



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Re: [GTALUG] Boot fails into Linux

[BCLUG via talk]

sciguy via talk wrote on 2023-09-04 10:49:

1) I noticed two swap partitions. Was that me being absent-minded when I 
did the installation/upgrade a year ago? Then I noticed:


Any ideas?


I'm not sure about the EFI partitions, but using the `swapon` and 
associated tools (swapoff, swaplabel), you can check which swap area is 
being used, enable / disable them (multiple swap areas are allowed, it 
appears), etc.



Interestingly, the man page says:

> The swaplabel utility allows changing the
>   label or UUID on an actively used swap device.

But I'm not having success with that (using /dev/sda5).

> swaplabel -L myswap /dev/sda5
>
> swaplabel: /dev/sda5: failed to write label: Text file busy

Disabling swap (`swapoff -a`) then `swaplabel -L myswap /dev/sda5` does 
not complain, but also doesn't seem to work.




I'm not sure I actually have any understanding of this. At all.

Hopefully someone can chime in with answers / suggestions to our issues.


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] GNOME automatically sleeps your computer

[BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2023-09-01 05:54:


  Is there really no way to tweak this in the GUI?

There is a way.  A user can change what GNOME does when they are logged in

   settings: Power: (Power Saving Options) Automatic Suspend: off


Thanks for the feedback Hugh - that seems reasonable.



But this has no effect on GDM (the login screen)
or any other user.


Oh, I hadn't considered that.

Now I'm wondering why mine (KDE) would do if left at log-in screen.

Thinking back, I recently set up a laptop for remote access, returned 
home, logged in, and it shut down moments later. Neglected to disable 
power saving shut-downs.




I want a system-wide setting.


Entirely reasonable.


rb
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Re: [GTALUG] GNOME automatically sleeps your computer

[BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote on 2023-08-24 06:31:


GNOME, at least on Fedora 38 and on debian 12, will put your computer
to sleep if the mouse and keyboard haven't been used for 15 minutes.

This makes the rather rash assumption that a computer running GNOME is
only doing GNOME things, and only for a person active at the console.


I would contend that automatic sleeping is not rash, but to be expected 
from the majority of users, especially on laptops, and especially newer 
users who a distro may want to avoid frustrating.




There are many things for which this assumption is wrong.  Here are some
for my desktop computer:


These tasks are all either advanced-level or server-focused, which most 
of the time won't even have a keyboard (i.e. VPSs).







I don't think that this should be a GNOME function since GNOME doesn't
know everything about a machine.


I hate to defend Gnome devs, but they can't set defaults that will work 
for 100% of users 100% of the time; they have to make some assumptions.


Maybe even enabling telemetry for making informed decisions in exactly 
this type of situation.


I'm gonna side with them here - I find it a reasonable assumption 
(although maybe 15 minutes is a bit too soon).





To suppress sleep (but only when on AC power) on Fedora 38, create a
file "/etc/dconf/db/site.d/do-not-suspend", owned by root, and put in
it these two lines, not indented:

[org/gnome/settings-daemon/plugins/power]
sleep-inactive-ac-timeout=0


Now *that* is obnoxious if there isn't a method within the default GUI 
to easily change this behaviour!




That doesn't work in debian.  If I remember correctly, this does:


Also obnoxiously obtuse.


Is there really no way to tweak this in the GUI?

I trust you would've found it were it easy, so I'll chalk it up to 
another reason to (personally) stay far away from Gnome.




Cheers,

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] internet service speed test tip

[BCLUG via talk]

Kevin Cozens via talk wrote on 2023-08-24 21:26:


TL;DR: run the test from a fast computer.


Some thing is either very wrong with the web page, you need a better 
browser or something else was running in the background that affected 
performance. My "slow" AMD FX8320 computer is able to use the Rogers 
speed test page and the numbers I got are about what I expected to see. 
One should not need a "fast" computer just to run a speedtest.


I, too, have an AMD FX8320 and measured 970Gbps on speed testing, using 
speedtest.net which may (or may not) have used my ISP's servers.


Have also seen 300 Mbps via speedtest.net (subscribed FTTH speed) that 
used a server in Portland, Oregon - not my ISP's.




Not sure what to make of Hugh's, Kevin's, and my results, but just 
adding my 2¢ to to the conversation.




rb

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Re: [GTALUG] [offtopic] Opinions on Freedom Mobile, please

[BCLUG via talk]

James Knott via talk wrote on 2023-08-03 05:40:

I wish I could remember the procedure I followed to enable WiFi 
calling, but am drawing a blank.


What phone do you have?  Bear in mind, not all plans support it.


Pixel 4a.
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Re: [GTALUG] [offtopic] Opinions on Freedom Mobile, please

[BCLUG via talk]

Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote on 2023-08-03 00:52:


Made the switch.
Fairly seamless.
The two people on staff (Steeles/Dufferin location) were knowledgeable 
and set things up seamlessly.


Nice.

I confirmed that I had (and was able to use) cell coverage in the subway 
stations and tunnels between Pioneer Village (Steeles) and Wilson.


Also, nice.  Nice² even.


My one burp is that I'm having an issue turning on Wifi Calling, seems 
to be a handshake issue between phone and carrier. Will investigate.


I wish I could remember the procedure I followed to enable WiFi calling, 
but am drawing a blank.


Once enabled though, it works quite well, even when initiating a call at 
home (WiFi) and walking outside range onto LTE. Seamless.



Speedtest reports 267Mbps down/66.5 Mbps up at home (though I neglected 
to do a "before" test with Koodo).


Crap, that's ~4-5x faster down and ~10x faster up than my home internet 
connection serving 5 people.



Best of luck with it.
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Re: [GTALUG] [offtopic] Opinions on Freedom Mobile, please

[BCLUG via talk]

James Knott via talk wrote on 2023-08-02 05:53:

On the lower bands, 5G provides a small improvement over 4G. However, 
there are new, 5G only bands.  For example, Rogers has service on 3.5 
GHz, which provides a significant performance improvement.  I've seen 
over 400 Mb with it.


Is that due to 5G itself, or the paucity of devices supporting it, hence 
lack of congestion?


Also, honest question for those more knowledgeable: does a doubling of 
frequency (i.e. 1700MHz to 3500MHz) equate to a doubling of bandwidth?



Cheers,

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] [offtopic] Opinions on Freedom Mobile, please

[BCLUG via talk]

Evan Leibovitch wrote on 2023-08-02 07:58:

I associate the Wind brand with the former Egyptian ownership, which I'd 
always thought was a little sketchy and a reason I stayed away in the 
early days


Ah, right. And there was Russian involvement at some level too, I seem 
to recall?


Still, as a name, Wind Mobile > Freedom Mobile IMHO.

I just reflexively react to anything with "Freedom", "Liberty", or 
"Family" in the name by expecting them to actually advance the opposite.




Most of the top-tier and second-tier brands from the Big Three appear to 
throttle rather than charge for overages (and allow you to "top up" max 
speed data).


That's good.  I'm pretty sure Wind was first to do that in Canada?


They also introduced the `tab`, where others had `free` new phones.  It 
made the cost of a new device quite clear, and replaced extortionate 
Early Termination fees with "pay off your tab and you're free to go".


And they'd unlock your device (carrier unlock, not firmware).


Pretty sure, now that I think back on it, that Wind Mobile introduced 
quire a few consumer-friendly policies that may now be the norm.





I'm curious why you're interested in 5G?


I've been told that the latency improvement is even more useful than the 
speed boost in some uses.


And that is correct, something I'd forgotten about.


Speaking of latency and veering slightly off topic, anyone interested in 
a VPN from mobile device to (usually home LAN) would be well advised to 
check out WireGuard.


High throughput (approaching theoretical maximum for the underlying 
carrier) and very fast to re-establish connections when moving from, 
say, WiFi to LTE.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] [offtopic] Opinions on Freedom Mobile, please

[BCLUG via talk]

Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote on 2023-08-01 20:09:

They have a 5G plan for the same money that I'm paying Koodo for 4G with 
10GB more per month.


Already sounds enticing.

I too have been a customer for ~10 years and recently got a free upgrade 
on data:


I used to get 250 MB (yes, megabytes), seems I now have 705MB (odd 
number) and it's Freedom and Nationwide data.


So, yay.

Also, in BC we'd get free access to Shaw WiFi in a lot of locations 
which helped reduce my actual LTE data to 250MB or less monthly, easily.



And one thing I really appreciate is that Wind Mobile would throttle 
users when they hit their data caps instead of charging a fortune for 
overages. I'll always appreciate that.



Pretty well everywhere I usually go these days is within Freedom's 5G 
coverage area. with 4G elsewhere (including the non-Freedom "nationwide" 
network coverage).


I'm curious why you're interested in 5G?

I thought it was mostly something more useful for the mobile service 
providers (higher capacity per tower, etc.) and the slight increase in 
speed seen by devices wasn't really significant. Of course, I could be 
wrong, and your situation might be enlightening.




Still, I have a few concerns. Reviews for Freedom on Trustpilot are 
plentiful and almost universally vicious. So long as everything Just 
Works my customer service interactions tend to be limited to initial setup.


Does anyone here have any real-life data points to offer? Thanks!


Their front line support has been frustrating in the past, as with most 
companies. ESL script readers can be difficult to discuss technical 
issues with.  That said, there's been some really good service on some 
calls.


All in all, it's pretty infrequent that I need support these days, so I 
wouldn't be too concerned about that.



I think some of the animosity toward them lingers from the "olden days", 
plus there's a certain level of mobile device snob that frowns upon "the 
poors" who seemingly can't afford anything better than Wind / Freedom.


It's a weird attitude, but it's out there.



Finally, there's a really handy app & web site that allows users to 
track *actual* coverage as measured by their devices and see real world 
results:


> https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=302=490

Check your favourite locations, the coverage of individual towers, 
specific carriers & bands, etc.  Great and clever tool!



Best of luck with it...

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Favorite desktop manager?

[BCLUG via talk]

o1bigtenor wrote on 2023-07-27 15:33:


Nope IT removed almost all options from users because they think that
they're the only ones that understand how to use a computer.
Anyone who's worked IT knows the average user does not understand how to 
use a computer:


* typing "google" into the search bar instead of the URL bar (when those 
were separate)
* moving their hand to the mouse to click "google.com" in the search 
results (painful to watch)
* storing documents all across the file system instead of on the network 
share (see previous example)
* etc. ad nauseam - the stories are legion and it's indisputable that 
"the average" computer user does not understand how the things work




And what's with - - - - the - - - - writing - - - - "style" - - - - ? Is
there - - - - a - - - - reason?


Yes there is - - - have you ever noticed how in speech there is a rhythm
to it? Or perhaps you interact seldom with mouth breathers? Its an attempt
at massaging written language into a shape closer to that of speech.


Reads like the writings of someone experiencing a stroke or Tourettes, 
probably not the effect you're looking for.


Also, one usually tries to avoid "mouth breathers". That's considered a 
Bad Thing™ (unsophisticated).



> it is fascinating to me that the first computer that I used was
> easiest to use along with the widest capabilities - - - - some
> almost 40 years ago.

Weird. I have a computer that I can speak to and it mostly understands 
me and speaks back.  Harder to get "more human" than that (not that I 
use it often, but a modern phone has remarkable capabilities).


How did that 40 year old computer connect to a network?

Could it display images?

Support a comprehensive GUI?

Contain sensors for acceleration, radio communications, GPS?

Was it *really* more capable than today's computers? Hard to believe.


> Supposedly I can use special characters

Ï dö nót hâvé ïßūës - trÿ lóökĩñg īńțô "Compose Keys".

Alternately, I sometimes speak to my phone to get special characters, 
then share the clipboard to my computer to paste into documents:


> 我唔知
> 唔係難
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Re: [GTALUG] Favorite desktop manager?

[BCLUG via talk]

o1bigtenor wrote on 2023-07-27 14:23:

In my view computers should change to suit humans, not the 
other way around.



So thankful that I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Is 
there any way to make this louder


Sounds like you guys hate CLI environments and probably use Siri /
Google Assistant / Alexa / *voice*  as a near ideal human-like 
user interface then?


Hmm - - - - I remember the advertisements early on in 
microcomputers - - - - you know - - - - "computing your way"

implying that an IT department wasn't going to force you to do things
the way they wanted. That was considered a great idea - - - - until
those same IT departments - - - - now responsible for fleets of 
microcomputers - - - well - - - they decided that they're the only 
ones who understand how a computer should be used.


Those IT departments weren't wrong.

You may have noticed that the world has changed, and for example,
letting users store all their documents all over their PCs is a disaster
when it comes to backing up business documents.

So, IT removed some options from users, because typical users don't
"understand how a computer should be used".

Do what you want on your own computers, but at work you cannot store
critical documents in C:\WINDOWS\VERYIMPORTANTFINANCIALS\THISMUSTBESAVED.doc



You know  - - - - where you only have a gui environment - - - or 
where you only have a cli environment - - - - or where your cli 
environment stifles flexibility - - - - (shall I go on ?).


Again, do what you want with *your own* computers.


And what's with - - - - the - - - - writing - - - - "style" - - - - ? Is
there - - - - a - - - - reason?




Desktop environments take their name and derive the concept from 
offices in the pre-electronic age. Window managers sound like 
something only pertinent to computers. Like terminals.


As such the technology makes it easier to work with for most of us. 
(Except for the idea of 0 being an actual counter as it is in only 
the computing world.)


I'm confused as to what point you're trying to make now.



Sounds quite un-Linuxy.


What - - - - you're not going to regale us on how you use VT-100 
terminals for so very many years as you perfected your use of 
assembly language?


No, that would be stupid.

I'm just pointing out "computers that work like humans" (or "change to 
suit humans") and "command line interfaces" seem rather mutually exclusive.


Humans communicate verbally for the most part until we all learned to 
type - we changed to work in a more computer-centric manner.



And I love working in a CLI. But I'm working in the computer's way,
it's not working in a human way.

It's highly efficient to know bash, etc., yet shells are rather unlike 
any human to human communication techniques.



Hence my semi-jesting message about how much we really want computers to 
suit humans, as the computer interfaces that most suit typical humans 
are anathema to computer geeks and LUG members.

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Re: [GTALUG] Favorite desktop manager?

[BCLUG via talk]

o1bigtenor via talk wrote on 2023-07-27 03:50:


In my view computers should change to suit humans, not the other way
around.



So thankful that I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
Is there any way to make this louder


Sounds like you guys hate CLI environments and probably use Siri / 
Google Assistant / Alexa / *voice* as a near ideal human-like user 
interface then?



Desktop environments take their name and derive the concept from offices 
in the pre-electronic age. Window managers sound like something only 
pertinent to computers. Like terminals.



Sounds quite un-Linuxy.










I say this partially in jest, but also to point out the seeming 
contradiction in what I inferred as the points being made.

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Re: [GTALUG] Favorite desktop manager?

[BCLUG via talk]

mwilson--- via talk wrote on 2023-07-25 11:18:


what do other people use and like?


KDE Plasma.

I like having the best tools at my finger tips and KDE has that. A few 
example follow; by no means a complete list:


Best file manager since OS/2's FM/2.  File selection addition and 
removal with single click: no need to ctrl+click.


Best console / terminal (konsole), supporting mouse-hover on file paths 
for previews, etc.


Virtual desktop "overview" feature to see & manage my applications and 
virtual desktops by moving my mouse to a "hot corner" - I still miss the 
visuals of "desktop cube" but this is actually more useful.



And, of course, KDEconnect to integrate my phone into my desktop, 
allowing me to:


* send files seamlessly between devices
* share clipboard contents
* get notifications on desktop of phone events (incoming calls, SMSs, 
etc.), mute incoming calls, pause media when calls come in,...

* reply to SMSs from the desktop
* allow my computer keyboard to be an input device for my phone
* "find my phone" by ringing it
* see phone's LTE connectivity, battery status, etc. from desktop
* open web pages I'm viewing on desktop directly onto phone
* etc.



I like the enormous amount of configurability, but one does not have to 
tweak all the options.


It's fast and lighter weight than ever before.

I have an old computer, but can still afford a few CPU cycles to make my 
UI/UX beyond pleasant. Runs quickly, looks great.



My 2 cents.

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Red Hat Paywall...

[BCLUG via talk]

Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote on 2023-07-04 03:39:


My take:

 2. IBM doesn't really give a damn about Alma and Rocky, they're just
incidental casualties. The #1 and maybe only target of the
subscription-wall action is IBM's longtime arch-enemy Oracle, which
may now be forced to actually maintain its own distro


This was one of my first thoughts too - Oracle will no longer be able to 
"leech" off of RedHat, which is rather delicious considering Oracle's 
reputation.




 4. I see an opportunity for SUSE which maintains both an
enterprise-Linux focus and good community relations. Are they up to
it? As a longshot maybe even Oracle could try to seize the moment
and try a charm offensive to attract a community... but that's
unlikely considered its many burned bridges (Solaris, OpenOffice, Java)


That's an interesting idea - the rise of SUSE / OpenSuse. I kinda like 
the idea - I don't have personal experience with it, but it seems 
well-regarded.


Seems the whole English speaking world (of podcasters and YouTubers) has 
a bit of a blind spot to SUSE and they probably deserve more attention.


Good call, hope it pans out.


As for Oracle, they have free / cheap cloud hosting for tiny instances, 
so maybe they'll try a charm offensive, however even with a free 
tiny-VPS, they don't seem to have much mind share.


I can't really see this.  Charm & Oracle don't belong in the same sentence.


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Red Hat Paywall...

[BCLUG via talk]

Giles Orr via talk wrote on 2023-07-04 18:09:


But for the last several years systemd has been rock-steady, and once
you wrap your head around the basics, it's a LOT easier to use than
maintaining those damn /etc/rc.N/  folders.  At least that's been my
experience.


My experience too - systemd is fine and is much easier to maintain, 
better documented, and has more features.



And, since it's used in all the major Linux distros, I feel reasonably
comfortable that it's thoroughly tested.



If I reject systemd via a "boutique" distro, what else am I giving up?

Devuan - is the team there large enough to keep up with the 
ever-changing security issues, features, etc?


If systemd were anathema to someone, shouldn't they move to BSD, where a 
large and experienced team exists?




Thought I'd add my 2c


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Toshiba Satellite L500 rejects Linux

[BCLUG via talk]

Giles Orr via talk wrote on 2023-06-16 05:53:


The problem is solved.  I think it's worth reporting here in the
manner of Hugh's "War Stories" because it was so weird.


These "War Stories" posts are always worth a read.


Nice job on trouble-shooting.

Having all this in the back of my mind may help someday, so thanks for 
posting.



rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora 38 is out

[BCLUG via talk]

Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote on 2023-04-24 19:44:

For security, of course deprecation can be a good idea. But this isn't 
for security. This is merely FSF being petty.


Yeah, it's weird.

--
root@b0x1 [~]
 └─» # for F in $(which egrep fgrep rgrep) ; do file ${F}; cat ${F} ; 
echo ; done

/usr/bin/egrep: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable
#!/bin/sh
exec grep -E "$@"

/usr/bin/fgrep: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable
#!/bin/sh
exec grep -F "$@"

/usr/bin/rgrep: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable
#!/bin/sh

exec grep -r "$@"
--

There's not much to maintain there, doesn't make sense.



Per https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2022-09/msg1.html:

>  The egrep and fgrep commands, which have been deprecated since
>  release 2.5.3 (2007), now warn that they are obsolescent and should
>  be replaced by grep -E and grep -F

Huh.  Deprecated since 2007, that's quite a while.


Have various distros been substituting redirect shell scripts in lieu of 
separate binaries?



rb
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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora 38 is out

[BCLUG via talk]

Stewart Russell via talk wrote on 2023-04-21 14:55:



I never, ever use fgrep or egrep and I think it's a bad idea.


Well, that's me told.



When I read your quote of my message, it occurred to me that I done 
messed up.



What I meant to say was, "I don't use them, and I think it's a bad idea 
*to remove them*". I was (in my head) referring to the original subject 
but failed to make that clear.



I still think that scripts really ought to use long-form options, but I 
am generally against removing choices unless the alternative it too much 
a burden.  This case doesn't seem to fit that definition though.



Sorry for the mix-up.
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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora 38 is out

[BCLUG via talk]

Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote on 2023-04-21 10:45:


I hear that it ships with the latest GNU grep, which removes fgrep
and egrep. This could be considered a bad idea: 
https://mastodon.social/@cks/110232377928840323


I never, ever use fgrep or egrep and I think it's a bad idea.


However, the reason being it breaks a lot of scripts, while valid, also
raises the issue that scripts ought to use the long form of all options
for future readability and maintenance.


I've fielded questions on why, i.e., an `rsync` script wasn't performing
well.

Translating the `rsync -a -b -c -d 1 -e -f -g ...` to long-form options
indicated a couple issues with somewhat contradictory options (likely a
copy/paste from Stack Overflow) that became immediately apparent.


So, `egrep` would be `grep --extended-regexp`, `fgrep` should be `grep
--fixed-strings` and `rgrep` should be `grep --recursive` in scripts.



`man grep`:

In addition, the variant programs egrep, fgrep and rgrep are  the 
same as  grep -E,  grep -F,  and  grep -r, respectively.  These 
variants are deprecated, but are provided for backward

compatibility.



My 2¢


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Canadian hosting?

[BCLUG via talk]

Znoteer via talk wrote on 2023-04-11 16:58:


baremetal.ca They're in BC.


Cool - I hadn't heard of them.

Oh, looks like they do "web hosting" but I don't see VPSs listed.


Also, I just cannot do business with companies that think including 
emoji / smiley faces in official company documents is something one does.


I may have an unpopular opinion on that matter, but it's not an 
incorrect opinion.


Who's with me?  There's room atop this hill for us all to die upon.


rb
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Re: [GTALUG] Canadian hosting?

[BCLUG via talk]

Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote on 2023-04-10 12:14:

I know that Akamai Cloud (formerly Linode) has dedicated root Linux 
servers in Toronto, but is there anyone else non-terrible*? There's a 
potential client who absolutely must have all data and processing hosted 
in Canada. I realize there's probably a 3x (or more) premium for 
in-country hosting.


Any suggestions/caveats greatly appreciated.



Promos abound for Linode via various Linux / OSS podcasts, i.e.:

https://latenightlinux.com/

> Go to https://linode.com/latenightlinux and get started with $100
> credit.


There's also Canadian Web Hosting - not just located in Canada but
Canadian-owned, from $7 CDN / month:

https://www.canadianwebhosting.com/vps

https://www.canadianwebhosting.com/hosting/compare_our_products/



I can only endorse the LNL podcast, no personal experience with any of
these hosting providers...


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] war story: gtalug.org's filled up

[BCLUG via talk]

(Someone already replied to and addressed this, but since I'd already 
typed it up, gonna send it anyway.)



o1bigtenor via talk wrote on 2023-04-05 12:34:


a great way
to reduce the problem caused by a runaway var file was to use separate
/var and /usr partitions (from / and /home).


That *may* help with preserving space on /, but now you have 2 more 
partitions to manage, and if /var runs out of space, you're still in 
trouble.




Plus, if /usr runs out of space, there'll be trouble installing anything.


Really, that just shifts the problem around without solving much.


My 2
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Re: [GTALUG] penguin.gtalug.org disk got full

[BCLUG via talk]

D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote on 2023-04-04 15:07:

| I suspect it has to do with manual installation: those types of 
packages are | flagged as to not be auto-removed, so something. | |

| See if gitlab shows up in: | | apt-mark showmanual

Quite right: gitlab-runner is there.  And a bunch of other stuff.

I'm used to Red Hat's dnf which replaces old versions with new ones.
 At least I think that it does.

# apt list --installed gitlab-runner Listing... Done 
gitlab-runner/stretch,now 15.10.1 amd64 [installed] N: There are 152 
additional versions. Please use the '-a' switch to see them.


Does this mean that 153 versions are installed?  I imagine not.


I don't see gitlab-runner as a package in my Ubuntu repos, but I believe
the 153 versions are all different versions that currently exist in the
repo.

I tested this with Firefox, and `apt
show firefox` contained:


Version: 111.0.1+build2-0ubuntu0.22.04.1~mt1

...

"N: There are 2 additional records. Please use the -a switch to see 
them."


Whereas `apt show firefox -a` indicates there are versions 110.x, 111.x 
and snap available.



So, all the un-removed packages in cache corresponding with existing 
entries in the repo may explain why `apt autoclean` didn't clear up much 
space (if I recall the situation correctly), since `man apt autoclean` says:



autoclean (and the auto-clean alias since 1.1) Like clean, autoclean
clears out the local repository of retrieved package files. The
difference is that it only removes package files that can no longer
be downloaded

"Can no longer be downloaded"...


Still, weird that the repo contains so many out-of-date versions; I'd 
have expected them to be removed when they're deprecated.



Also, I *think* that's where `apt mark minimize-manual` can clear out 
some of the cruft that exists post-upgrade.




Might be worth a try?


rb

[Re-directed this to the mailing list, since hopefully there's something 
of interest to the general community in here and nothing confidential.]

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Re: [GTALUG] Update borked my system

[BCLUG via talk]

Bob Jonkman via talk wrote on 2023-03-27 21:06:

To drag a window without toolbars press ALT and drag the window from its 
middle.


Relatedly, Alt+Right-button-drag resizes.

Can be handy...


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Update borked my system

[BCLUG via talk]

A couple thoughts, as it's getting late... I've pasted the latest 
versions available to a KDEneon distro below, ready to run.



Maybe try these (might require a --reinstall switch passed), see if 
there are fewer broken packages afterwards?:



apt install grub-efi-amd64-bin=2.06-2ubuntu14.1
apt install grub-efi-amd64-signed=1.187.3~22.04.1+2.06-2ubuntu14.1

apt install gwenview=4:22.12.3-0xneon+22.04+jammy+release+build15
apt install kdeconnect=22.12.3-0xneon+22.04+jammy+release+build22

apt install kwin-x11=4:5.27.3-0xneon+22.04+jammy+release+build33
apt install kwin-common=4:5.27.3-0xneon+22.04+jammy+release+build33
apt install kwin-data=4:5.27.3-0xneon+22.04+jammy+release+build33

apt install 
libkf5filemetadata-bin=5.104.0-0xneon+22.04+jammy+release+build15


apt install libkf5sysguard-data=4:5.27.3-0xneon+22.04+jammy+release+build19

apt install plasma-nm=4:5.27.3-0xneon+22.04+jammy+release+build20

apt install shim-signed=1.51.3+15.7-0ubuntu1

BONUS:

apt install neon-desktop=4+p22.04+trelease+git20230227.1438


## kwin-wayland
## kwin-wayland-backend-drm




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Re: [GTALUG] Update borked my system

[BCLUG via talk]

Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote on 2023-03-27 01:20:

Is there a command that can let me just force everything to the current 
stable release without me having to go through the whole 
install-from-usb-stick thing?


I recently did a silly thing: upgraded my system Python installation via 
a PPA.


That meant that a `do-release-upgrade` took me to a version of Python 
that was slightly behind the one installed via PPA.



I had all kinds of problems, sounding similar to yours.


This post put me on the right track, allowed me to fix it quite painlessly:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/10b9rsr/comment/j4dqhqx


Lessons learnt:

* mess with Python in a venv
* man apt-patterns
* apt mark minimize-manual


I wonder if this will produce more legible output:

apt list ?broken


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Update borked my system

[BCLUG via talk]

Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote on 2023-03-27 01:20:

I like KDE Neon, it's a like "Kubuntu without snaps but with the newest 
KDE".


Yeah, KDEneon is *great*.


It does have snaps however.  Never been a problem, for me at least.


Try `snap list` to see them.

I have chromium, "bare", core18, core20, cups, gnome-stuff 1 & 2, 
gtk-common-themes, and snapd in my list.



Anywho, I'm looking at your package error list, see if I can remember 
how to fix that.



rb


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Re: [GTALUG] Reminder: General Meeting - Tuesday, March 14th at 7:30 PM

[BCLUG via talk]

Alan Heighway via talk wrote on 2023-03-13 05:44:


NFTs: seizing the memes of production


That discussion title is definitely worth a thumbs-up, well done.
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Re: [GTALUG] New WiFi router?

[BCLUG via talk]

Alex Kink via talk wrote on 2023-03-08 04:19:

I would suggest one of those ridiculous looking TP-Link units with 
several antennas.


I haven't had to upgrade a router in a while, but Jim Salter
(ArsTechnica writer, 2.5Admins.com podcaster, Syncoid/Sanoid author,
SysAdmin guru, ZFS evangelist) recommends TP-Link routers for most use
cases, and he generally knows his stuff quite well.



Remember how our homebrew router embarrassed off-the-shelf options?
Go make your own.


https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/04/the-ars-guide-to-building-a-linux-router-from-scratch/


Also of interest:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02/the-ars-technica-semi-scientific-guide-to-wi-fi-access-point-placement/
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Re: [GTALUG] Ubuntu Pro - a new, non-optional walled garden from Canonical

[BCLUG via talk]

Stewart Russell via talk wrote on 31/01/2023 06.22:

The following packages seem to be under 'esmapps', only available 
through Ubuntu Pro:


     ansible imagemagick imagemagick-6-common imagemagick-6.q16
     libimage-magick-perl libimage-magick-q16-perl libjs-jquery-ui
     libmagick++-6-headers libmagick++-6.q16-8 libmagick++-6.q16-dev
     libmagickcore-6-headers libmagickcore-6.q16-6 libmagick++-dev
     libmagickwand-6-headers libmagickwand-6.q16-6 libmaven3-core-java
     libopenexr25 libopenexr-dev libpython2.7-dbg libpython2.7-minimal
     libpython2.7-stdlib python2.7 python2.7-dbg python2.7-minimal


I made a little script to check which repository a similar list is 
pulled from, and they all came from "universe".


i.e. A community-curated repository, like Arch's AUR.


So, if running pure Ubuntu, no universe packages are installed by default.

Various "flavours" of Ubuntu are not under this restriction.


Ubuntu Pro (as I understand it) provides access to Canonical's patches 
to universe prior to them being pushed upstream, accepted & merged, 
packaged, and redistributed.



Also, I think that the latest Ubuntu universe doesn't have this restriction?


I made a brief post and added the script:

> https://bclug.ca/ubuntu-pro/


rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Ubuntu Pro - a new, non-optional walled garden from Canonical

[BCLUG via talk]

Stewart Russell via talk wrote on 31/01/2023 06.22:


Ubuntu Pro is free-of-charge for "personal" users for up to five
machines.


Linux Downtime podcast mentioned Ubuntu Pro in Episode 64
(https://linuxdowntime.com/linux-downtime-episode-64/).

In the modern world where we run more and more software from outside 
our distros’ repositories, how do we know what to trust?


The host, Joe Ressington, said, "I just install from my distro's repos,
so I feel safe (though maybe naïvely)."

Martin Wimpress, the developer of the Mate Desktop, current Canonical
employee, etc., raised an interesting counter point.

"Are you installing from the 'universe' repo? Because that's not (as)
curated by Canonical.  Unless you're using Ubuntu Pro."


Various "flavours" can include software from the "universe" archive by
default, Ubuntu does not. Generally speaking, the universe archive is
community-maintained.


Timestamps: 01m10s to 03m15s, with Ubuntu Pro mentioned specifically
just before the 3 minute mark.

It's a 20 minute podcast.



Direct link to audio file:

https://content.libsyn.com/p/6/0/0/600f3f9f874f6c82/LDT64.mp3

rb
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[GTALUG] [OT] Re: war story: firefox performance rathole (matrix.io)

[BCLUG via talk]

William Park via talk wrote on 30/01/2023 17.14:


OFF-TOPIC: This "vacant home tax" is just commie stupid.


That's one opinion.



This means that, you can't own 2 houses inside Toronto.


No, it does not mean that. At all.

It means that one can't sit empty. Huge difference.
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Re: [GTALUG] Is there a digest format for the GTALUG talk mailing list?

[BCLUG via talk]

sciguy via talk wrote on 2022-12-18 09:04:


BCLUG via talk wrote on 2022-12-18 05:08:

I just tested it, and it doesn't switch me to digest, would need
to unsubscribe and resubscribe:


I just tried unsubscribing and resubscribing -- I was never given
the option to have a digest format there either.




Probably the option wasn't set at the first item this page:

https://gtalug.org/mailman/admin/talk/digest


Can list members choose to receive list traffic bunched in digests?




I tried subscribing to the digest with a different account:


- Results:
No one can subscribe to the digest of this list!

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Re: [GTALUG] Is there a digest format for the GTALUG talk mailing list?

[BCLUG via talk]

BCLUG via talk wrote on 2022-12-18 05:08:


Send a message to talk-requ...@gtalug.org:


subscribe [password] [digest|nodigest] [address=]

The next argument may be either: `nodigest' or `digest' (no 
quotes!). If you wish to subscribe an address other than the

address you sent this request from, you may specify
`address=' (no brackets around the email address, and no
quotes!)


I just tested it, and it doesn't switch me to digest, would need to 
unsubscribe and resubscribe:



The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
original message.

- Results:
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Re: [GTALUG] Is there a digest format for the GTALUG talk mailing list?

[BCLUG via talk]

sciguy via talk wrote on 2022-12-18 02:22:

I went through the mailing list configuration page and while I found a 
ton of things that can be tweaked, there appeared to be nothing on 
getting a daily digest format of this mailing list. Is there such a 
thing for GTALUG?


I had to check for myself, and ... yeah, no "digest" options on the website.


There may be a way around that:

Send a message to talk-requ...@gtalug.org, with subject containing the 
word "help" (no quotes).



The results show sending another message to that address can get one on 
the digest version of the list:



subscribe [password] [digest|nodigest] [address=]
Subscribe to this mailing list.  Your password must be given to
unsubscribe or change your options, but if you omit the password, one
will be generated for you.  You may be periodically reminded of your
password.

The next argument may be either: `nodigest' or `digest' (no quotes!).
If you wish to subscribe an address other than the address you sent
this request from, you may specify `address=' (no brackets
around the email address, and no quotes!)


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Re: [GTALUG] Cannot get a network in Linux (Ubuntu) after using Windows 10

[BCLUG via talk]

sciguy via talk wrote on 2022-12-17 12:14:

When I say I can't get a network, I mean that my Linux OS can't see any 
external hardware, including the router. And of course, I can't get the 
Internet.


When in W10 (as I am now), I checked the router "config pages" and I 
noticed that it has two different IP addresses - one to the W10 hostname 
and one the Linux hostname, on the same machine.


Any ideas?


Sounds like Windows & Linux are using different host names as part of 
their dhcp client requests, I suspect. Hence the different IP addrs.



Is there any IP bound to the NIC in Linux?

> ip addr show

Is the link "up"?

> ip link show


If both seem valid, perhaps re-fetching an IP from the router:

> dhclient -r [iface_name]
> dhclient -v [iface_name]



Those are just a couple thoughts off the top of my head, but maybe 
enough to get you on the right track.



Good luck!

rb

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Re: [GTALUG] Weird pivot from the Linux Foundation: Overture Maps Foundation

[BCLUG via talk]

Stewart Russell via talk wrote on 2022-12-15 07:01:

Membership in the Overture foundation is also very costly: $3000 
US/year to contribute, $3M US/year to be on the steering committee.


From the Ars story, that's cheap to these companies:

If Overture Maps succeeds, it could lower costs for everyone. 
Overture member companies are expected to pay an annual membership 
fee to the foundation, with members on the "Steering" tier paying $3 
million per year and dedicating 20 engineers to the project (sign-ups

are currently open). That's nothing compared to what a big company
will pay for access to the Google Maps API. When Uber held its IPO in
2019, the company reportedly paid $58 million for Google Maps API
access over the previous three years, and that was mostly before the
Google Maps price hike. $3 million a year is a bargain compared to
that.



$3,000,000 *plus* 20 engineers - that kind of resources can get things done.

Also, "Qualified Nonprofits / Government" tier of membership is $0:

https://overturemaps.org/become-a-member/


Also, a Polish "find a pharmacy with medicine I require" site was priced
out of Google Maps and investigated the alternatives (interesting
comparison images of different mapping products), and made this claim:

Some options we could reject quickly for various reasons. 
OpenStreetMap is not supposed to be directly used by commercial 
sites


https://www.inderapotheke.de/blog/farewell-google-maps



So, I can see the case for Overture Maps if they compete with Google (or
can't afford them), and OSM licensing means OSM is unavailable.


The partners in Overture are not particularly well known for their 
open-source friendliness.


Ars again:


The code to "help developers process and effectively use Overture map
data and the global entity reference system" will eventually be on
GitHub. Initially, the foundation aims to release "basic layers
including building, road, and administrative information," with later
plans to introduce "new layers such as places, routing or 3D building
data."


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Re: [GTALUG] Weird pivot from the Linux Foundation: Overture Maps Foundation

[BCLUG via talk]

Stewart Russell via talk wrote on 2022-12-15 07:01:

The Linux Foundation, a global nonprofit organization enabling 
innovation through open source, today announced the formation of the 
Overture Maps Foundation , a new 
collaborative effort to develop interoperable open map data as a 
shared asset that can strengthen mapping services worldwide.



The thing is, we already have a mature global map database with 
interoperable data and services: OpenStreetMap




It sounds like OSM data *structures* are the issue, and "Overture data
will be available for use by the OSM community..."

One of the Overture site FAQs asks about OpenStreetMap and its 
relationship to Overture: "Overture is a data-centric map project, 
not a community of individual map editors. Therefore, Overture is 
intended to be complementary to OSM. We combine OSM with other 
sources to produce new open map data sets. Overture data will be 
available for use by the OpenStreetMap community under compatible 
open data licenses. Overture members are encouraged to contribute to 
OSM directly."


It sounds like the Overture Foundation is unhappy with the 
OpenStreetMap data structure and wants to clean things up, saying, 
"Open map data can lack the structure needed to easily build map 
products. Overture will define and drive adoption of a common, 
well-structured, and documented data schema to create an easy-to-use 
ecosystem of map data."


As anticipated, Ars has a write-up about it:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/linux-amazon-meta-and-microsoft-want-to-break-the-google-maps-monopoly/
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Re: [GTALUG] Forced off DSL by Bell

[BCLUG via talk]

Alvin Starr via talk wrote on 2022-11-21 20:02:


I have a cottage with a 3Mbit DSL service and the DSL service is
rock solid.

The back haul from the fiber connect point on the other hand is
little better than 2 tin cans and a string.

How does one test the DSL service between customer and CO only?

Is that a ping test?  Am I misunderstanding everything (again)?


I'm just trying to understand how to go about it should I find myself in 
similar circumstances.



Thanks,

rb
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