Re: Window-eyes 9.5.4 and Thunderbird 91.2

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Which voice is the one you might hear on WE startup? It sounds like the 
synthesizer is speaking English with an accent.


On 1/10/2022 12:23 PM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:

Glad ya like it, and I hope you never lose it.

On 1/10/2022 8:35 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
That's really weird.  DecTalk is so much clearer and louder than 
eloquence. It's even better if you have an external one; because when 
they made dectalk 32, they apparently lost the original specs, so they 
had to cobble it together however they could, so it's not as good as 
the external, but it's still better than eloquence.  Artic is the 
first synthetic speech I had in my first computer, which was one of 
those evas things with dos in it.  Pam.


-Original Message- From: Larry Higgins via Talk
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2022 1:43 PM
To: Nick Sarames via Talk
Cc: Larry Higgins
Subject: Re: Window-eyes 9.5.4 and Thunderbird 91.2



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Re: Window-eyes 9.5.4 and Thunderbird 91.2

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Wow! I really like Eloquence, especially compared to (what is it) deck 
talk? Whatever

the WE default speech synthesizer is.
On 1/8/2022 11:57 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
Browse mode to read emails?  I'm not doing it on the web.  Oh, the thing 
I don't like about eloquence, which is what jaws has, is not only that 
it sounds like it's drunk with a plugged up nose, but that if there is 
no punctuation mark after a certain amount of time, it starts winding 
down like its batteries are dying.  After all these years, they have 
never fixed that. Shame on them!  Pam.


-Original Message- From: Larry Higgins via Talk
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2022 10:15 AM
To: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
Cc: Larry Higgins
Subject: Re: Window-eyes 9.5.4 and Thunderbird 91.2



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Re: Repeating Web page names

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I could just write, be glad it's accessible. I just ignore it and go 
about my business. Generally, I either scroll through headings or use 
the page down key to get where I want to be on the website.


On 7/21/2021 3:23 AM, Mike via Talk wrote:

#

Hello Everyone



A couple of months ago, We has started repeating web page names. It 
always says the page name 3 times and this appears to be every page I 
visit.  Needless to say, I am getting very fedup with it.




I am using Windows 10 Home, WE 9.5.4.0 with Brave browser.



Any suggestions would be very welcome.



With thanks in advance



Mike.



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Re: Google Chrome - Download the Fast, Secure Browser from Google

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

	For me, Chrome was pretty straight forward. For the most part, I'm 
doing the same thing I did on IE. One thing though, when you click on 
the icon for Chrome, you are already in the address bar, so you can just 
type the URL you want. If you're on a website and you want to go to a 
different one, type control l, and then type the new URL.


On 3/6/2021 8:00 PM, Carol Smith via Talk wrote:

Hi Rod,

Thank you for your offer.  The link you sent was for Canada, but I was 
able to find the one for the U.S.  I ran the installer, but know nothing 
about Chrome.  I would appreciate it if you could help me get started 
with it.  Thank you.

Do you need ny number?

Carol

On 3/5/2021 6:40 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:

Hi Carol,

Below is the link to the download page for Google Chrome.
If you would like, I can always call you and we can discuss it on the 
phone.

Anyway, this will get you started. Smile.

Good luck,

Rod

https://www.google.com/intl/en_ca/chrome/

https://www.google.com/intl/en_ca/chrome/?back=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fclient%3Dsafari%26as_qdr%3Dall%26as_occt%3Dany%26safe%3Dactive%26as_q%3DChrome+windows+download%26channel%3Daplab%26source%3Da-app1%26hl%3Den 



Sent from Outlook for iOS

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Fwd: New to the list, saying hello

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Since I've been accused of belaboring this, I may as well continue. I am 
just curious why replying causes the message to disappear, but 
forwarding the message does not.



 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Re: New to the list, saying hello
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 23:10:06 -0500
From: Chester Thrash via Talk 
Reply-To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
CC: Chester Thrash 

I sure hate I missed getting Window-Eyes before they closed. Have a 
blessed night.


--
Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners - of  whom I am the 
worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the 
worst of  sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as 
an example for those who would  believe on him and receive eternal life. 
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only  God, be honor 
and glory for ever and ever. Amen. If we have limits, they are self imposed
 Our world is waiting for praying Christians who understand their place 
in the plans and purposes  of God. Darkness is never dispelled by 
shouting at it, but by allowing light to shine through it.  May the 
light of Christ shine through you as you take seriously this call to 
prayer in the midst of  warfare.

-- Dave Butts
Prayer is an absolute of what is to be, according to God's Will. Lack of 
prayer, is an absolute of  personal despair!

Matthew 21:22
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall 
receive. I had rather stand with God and be judged by the world, than to 
stand with the world and be judged by God.’ "You can't be part of a 
denomination and follow the Bible and you can't be part of the Church of 
Christ without following the Bible." from Gary McDade of The Everlasting 
Gospel program on GBN Your brother in Christ, Chester Thrash Website: 
http://www.samobile.net/users/audioguy/ Home Phone:404-996-6731, cell: 
404-901-8835
Address: 2449 East Club Drive Northeast, Apt.507A, Brookhaven, Georgia 
30319-3380
YouTube Channel: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTtqeMrvhMNl7pz87HRVJyg?view_as=subscriber

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Re: New to the list, saying hello

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Why or how did  it disappear when I hit reply? I don't remember whether 
I hit reply, or reply all.


On 2/23/2021 9:15 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:

Okay, Nick. If this block of text did magically vanish from within the middle 
of the message, I agree. Regardless of the subject, a 27 line lecture for a 
signature lacks consideration for anyone trying to read a thread. It makes it 
very difficult, especially for those of us who can't visually skim over it. And 
it would not be allowed on most mailing lists.

Chester, I'm sure your zealous effort is done with good intention, however, you 
should consider the practical implications. An old friend of mine started doing 
this a year or so ago on a list we'd both been on for about the last twenty 
years. And when the moderators kindly asked him to stop, he stubbornly refused, 
leaving them no choice but to ban him from the list. And those moderators had 
absolutely no problem with reasonable contextual expressions of faith.

Regards,
Tom


-Original Message-
From: Talk  On 
Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 8:57 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Cc: Nick Sarames 
Subject: Re: New to the list, saying hello

OK, there needs to be clarrification here, because for some reason, his
entire e-mail was not shown in my reply:


I sure hate I missed getting Window-Eyes before they closed. Have a
blessed night.


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Re: New to the list, saying hello

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I don't have an issue with that.

On 2/22/2021 2:13 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:

If someone wants to put God bless  as their signature  for their emails, I 
don't see how it harms anyone on this list.


-Original Message-
From: Talk  On Behalf Of 
Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 1:51 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Cc: Nick Sarames 
Subject: Re: New to the list, saying hello

This is not a free speech issue.

On 2/22/2021 11:34 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:

Nick,

Where's the so-called discussion? And who gave you the right to revoke
our freedom of speech. Faith is forbidden, but thy will be done. This
is called a double standard. If "Have a blessed night" offends you to
the point of taking the time to dictate how others may speak, you need help.

God speed,
(This is an act of good will, not a sales pitch. According to the
Oxford English dictionary it means: an expression of good wishes to a
person starting a journey.) Tom


-Original Message-
From: Talk
 On
Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 2:46 AM
To: Chester Thrash via Talk 
Cc: Nick Sarames 
Subject: Re: New to the list, saying hello

Some of us question the validity of your deity. For that reason,
listers are prohibited from discussing said topic..

On 2/21/2021 11:10 PM, Chester Thrash via Talk wrote:

I sure hate I missed getting Window-Eyes before they closed. Have a
blessed night.


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Re: New to the list, saying hello

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

OK, there needs to be clarrification here, because for some reason, his 
entire e-mail was not shown in my reply:



I sure hate I missed getting Window-Eyes before they closed. Have a 
blessed night.


--
Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners - of  whom I am the 
worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the 
worst of  sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as 
an example for those who would  believe on him and receive eternal life. 
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only  God, be honor 
and glory for ever and ever. Amen. If we have limits, they are self imposed
Our world is waiting for praying Christians who understand their place 
in the plans and purposes  of God. Darkness is never dispelled by 
shouting at it, but by allowing light to shine through it.  May the 
light of Christ shine through you as you take seriously this call to 
prayer in the midst of  warfare.

-- Dave Butts
Prayer is an absolute of what is to be, according to God's Will. Lack of 
prayer, is an absolute of  personal despair!

Matthew 21:22
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall 
receive. I had rather stand with God and be judged by the world, than to 
stand with the world and be judged by God.’ "You can't be part of a 
denomination and follow the Bible and you can't be part of the Church of 
Christ without following the Bible." from Gary McDade of The Everlasting 
Gospel program on GBN Your brother in Christ, Chester Thrash Website: 
http://www.samobile.net/users/audioguy/ Home Phone:404-996-6731, cell: 
404-901-8835
Address: 2449 East Club Drive Northeast, Apt.507A, Brookhaven, Georgia 
30319-3380
YouTube Channel: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTtqeMrvhMNl7pz87HRVJyg?view_as=subscriber

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On 2/22/2021 8:48 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
I agree.  Notice how defensive he got.  That should tell you something. 
If I wrote on this list the I had a pet talking rock, do you think 
anyone would really care.  No, because there is no such thing.  In many 
cases, their denial of God is really more of a hatred of God.  He is 
right, I don't know what he believes adnd I really don't care, so if I 
chose to say God bless you all or whatever, what is the problem  As I 
said before, very interesting.  And yes, it is a matter of free speech

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Mon, 22 Feb 2021, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:

If someone wants to put God bless  as their signature  for their 
emails, I don't see how it harms anyone on this list.



-Original Message-
From: Talk  On 
Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk

Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 1:51 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Cc: Nick Sarames 
Subject: Re: New to the list, saying hello

This is not a free speech issue.

On 2/22/2021 11:34 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:

Nick,

Where's the so-called discussion? And who gave you the right to revoke
our freedom of speech. Faith is forbidden, but thy will be done. This
is called a double standard. If "Have a blessed night" offends you to
the point of taking the time to dictate how others may speak, you 
need help.


God speed,
(This is an act of good will, not a sales pitch. According to the
Oxford English dictionary it means: an expression of good wishes to a
person starting a journey.) Tom


-Original Message-
From: Talk
 On
Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 2:46 AM
To: Chester Thrash via Talk 
Cc: Nick Sarames 
Subject: Re: New to the list, saying hello

Some of us question the validity of your deity. For that reason,
listers are prohibited from discussing said topic..

On 2/21/2021 11:10 PM, Chester Thrash via Talk wrote:

I sure hate I missed getting Window-Eyes before they closed. Have a
blessed night.


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Re: New to the list, saying hello

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

This is not a free speech issue.

On 2/22/2021 11:34 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:

Nick,

Where's the so-called discussion? And who gave you the right to revoke our
freedom of speech. Faith is forbidden, but thy will be done. This is called
a double standard. If "Have a blessed night" offends you to the point of
taking the time to dictate how others may speak, you need help.

God speed,
(This is an act of good will, not a sales pitch. According to the Oxford
English dictionary it means: an expression of good wishes to a person
starting a journey.)
Tom


-Original Message-
From: Talk  On
Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 2:46 AM
To: Chester Thrash via Talk 
Cc: Nick Sarames 
Subject: Re: New to the list, saying hello

Some of us question the validity of your deity. For that reason, listers
are prohibited from discussing said topic..

On 2/21/2021 11:10 PM, Chester Thrash via Talk wrote:

I sure hate I missed getting Window-Eyes before they closed. Have a
blessed night.


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Re: New to the list, saying hello

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

You know nothing about my beliefs. As for prohibition, you know the answer.

On 2/22/2021 12:33 PM, Butch Bussen wrote:
Prohibited by who?  I don't care that you don't believe, so why should 
care that I do?  Kind of interesting don't you think?

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Mon, 22 Feb 2021, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:

Some of us question the validity of your deity. For that reason, 
listers are prohibited from discussing said topic..


On 2/21/2021 11:10 PM, Chester Thrash via Talk wrote:

 I sure hate I missed getting Window-Eyes before they closed. Have a
 blessed night.


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.

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Re: New to the list, saying hello

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Some of us question the validity of your deity. For that reason, listers 
are prohibited from discussing said topic..


On 2/21/2021 11:10 PM, Chester Thrash via Talk wrote:
I sure hate I missed getting Window-Eyes before they closed. Have a 
blessed night.



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WE & Youtube

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

		Is anyone having any issues with Window-eyes & Youtube? I'm unable to 
click on the search box. WE reads the "search" text but browse mode is 
not turning off. Actually when I turn it off manually, I still can't 
type in the box. Ironically (OK it's really not irony) I can search 
Youtube if I use Internet Explorer, not Google Chrome.

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Re: copying and pasting

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

When I want to copy a URL, I press either f3 or f6, then contro x, then 
control c.


On 12/13/2020 12:21 PM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
Do I use that when copying a url to put into a browser?  Because that's 
when I was having trouble copying and pasting.  The rest of the time, I 
was able to use the old copy and paste, like if I was moving files and 
stuff.  Pam.


-Original Message- From: net bat via Talk
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 11:56 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: net bat
Subject: Re: copying and pasting

press f8 at the beginning of the text and f8 on the end of the text you 
want to

copy.

-Original Message- From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 8:49 AM
To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
Cc: Pamela Dominguez
Subject: copying and pasting

I know how to do the regular copy and paste, but I remember that in the 
last
window eyes, they changed it.  I have some questions.  It seems that the 
new
one worked in certain instances, and that you used the regular copy and 
paste,
meaning the control c and control v, the rest of the time.  When I go to 
copy
email addresses, do I use the new one or the old one, and how do I use 
the new
one?  I don’t remember the key strokes for that.  Thanks for anybody’s 
help.

Pam.


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Re: unsubscribe

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

On 8/9/2020 3:48 AM, Mike via Talk wrote:

Hello


Your unsubscribe message has come to the group.


   You should find a link at the bottom of all messages which will 
enable you to unsubscribe.



Best wishes


Mike.

Your unsubscribe message has come to the group.


Mike.

On 09/08/2020 06:11, Patricia Haring via Talk wrote:


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Re: Another test

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Look at the bottom of this e-mail. The info is there.

On 7/11/2020 2:52 AM, anthonyborg001--- via Talk wrote:

Hello tom

Can you please explain to me how to unsubscribe from this list?
Thanks in advance

Anthony

-Original Message-
From: Talk  On
Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk
Sent: 10 July 2020 18:23
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Cc: tom.kings...@charter.net
Subject: RE: Another test

I hear ya, Larry. I just recently switched to Outlook in Office 365 because
Microsoft has done a phenomenal amount of work to make things accessible.
But I still have good ol' Thunderbird installed. I've got to see if there's
an easier way to move between folders and accounts. It's such a breeze with
TB.
Good luck,
Tom


-Original Message-
From: Talk  On
Behalf Of Larry Higgins via Talk
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 10:02 AM
To: Tom Kingston via Talk 
Cc: Larry Higgins 
Subject: Re: Another test

Thanks Tom. Sure hope I've got this thing fixed once and for all.


Just wondering, how does this still survive? I'm sure glad it does, but ...

On 7/10/2020 8:46 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:

Both test messages came through.



On 7/10/2020 9:28 AM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:


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Re: outlook email

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I am using Thunderbird (which is an e-mail client) with the e-mail 
coming from outlook.com I have never paid.


http://www.outlook.com

On 4/4/2020 4:34 PM, BK via Talk wrote:

Hello, I have never used outlook. Is there a free outlook email client I
can download and install on my harddrive? Or, do I have to by MS office
or use outlook with a 365 subscription? If I can download the program
without the office suite, please tell me where or send me the link. Any
help is appreciated.

Butch

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Re: A Question Or Two

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Yes, you are correct - it's Windows 8.1, thanks for the suggestions.

On 2/28/2020 7:08 AM, Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk wrote:
When you said "8.4" you really meant Windows 8.1, which was the last one 
before Windows 10.
If you meant Window-Eyes 8.4, it is not going to work on Windows 10 at 
all. You should be running Window-Eyes 9.5.4 if possible.
For installing Windows 10, if it is an older version, you can get 
Narrator started with Windows-Enter. For the versions of the last couple 
of years, you can start Narrator with ctrl-Windows-Enter. When I did an 
install back in 2015, the disability answer desk didn't exist. But I put 
an AM radio near the computer to get a sense of whether there was disk 
activity, the processor was waiting for input, etc. This helped a little.

Also, Aira or BeMyEyes might be helpful during the setup process.



Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD

-Original Message----- From: Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 11:29 PM
To: Loy Green via Talk
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: A Question Or Two

Thanks. I guess I should take the plunge sooner than later.

On 2/27/2020 10:15 PM, Loy Green via Talk wrote:
I was a long time user of Window Eyes, WE 9.5.4 will somewhat work 
with Win10. But no earlier versions of WE. I got JAWS free when WE was 
sold. I started using JAWS then and kept WE and would use it 
sometimes.WE actually works best on a few sites even now, but not well 
on others. There is also a good free screen reader NVDA. I keep all 
three screen readers installed but mostly use JAWS now. Going from 8.4 
to 10 should not be hard to learn. Microsoft disability probably would 
help you or you can down load the Windows Upgrade assistant and do it 
yourself. Original Message ----- From: "Nick Sarames via Talk" 


To: "Window-Eyes Discussion List" 
Cc: "Nick Sarames" 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 9:42 PM
Subject: A Question Or Two


So I'm still procrastinating. I'm currently using the latest 
Window--eyes and the that precedes Windows 10 (maybe it's Windows 
8.4?). If I knew for certain that WE is reasonably compatible with 
Windows 10 but my concern is that WE won't work at all. I guess my 
question is, is it more difficult to learn Jaws or Windows 10? Should 
I download Jaws before worrying about Windows 10? I really don't do 
much more than surfing and e-mailing, and the occasional ordering of 
food and miscellaneous products. Also, is it possible for the 
Michrosoft Disabilities desk to install Windows 10 using remote 
assist, and if so, would you recommend it?


If you would prefer e-mailing me privately, feel free.

nicksara...@msn.com

Thanks in advance.

Nick Sarames
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Re: A Question Or Two

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

It's interesting how experiences vary. I found 8.1 & WE to work well 
together. Do you think I should download Jaws before or after I download 
Windows 10?


On 2/28/2020 1:25 AM, Curtis Delzer via Talk wrote:
window-eyes actually worked and works better with windows ten than it 
ever did with 8.1


for 8.1 didn't have any start menu.

Curtis Delzer
HS
K 6 V F O
Rialto, CA

cur...@calweb.com

On 2/27/2020 6:42 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
So I'm still procrastinating. I'm currently using the latest 
Window--eyes and the that precedes Windows 10 (maybe it's Windows 
8.4?). If I knew for certain that WE is reasonably compatible with 
Windows 10 but my concern is that WE won't work at all. I guess my 
question is, is it more difficult to learn Jaws or Windows 10? Should 
I download Jaws before worrying about Windows 10? I really don't do 
much more than surfing and e-mailing, and the occasional ordering of 
food and miscellaneous products. Also, is it possible for the 
Michrosoft Disabilities desk to install Windows 10 using remote 
assist, and if so, would you recommend it?


If you would prefer e-mailing me privately, feel free.

nicksara...@msn.com

Thanks in advance.

Nick Sarames
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Re: A Question Or Two

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Thanks. I guess I should take the plunge sooner than later.

On 2/27/2020 10:15 PM, Loy Green via Talk wrote:
I was a long time user of Window Eyes, WE 9.5.4 will somewhat work with 
Win10. But no earlier versions of WE. I got JAWS free when WE was sold. 
I started using JAWS then and kept WE and would use it sometimes.WE 
actually works best on a few sites even now, but not well on others. 
There is also a good free screen reader NVDA. I keep all three screen 
readers installed but mostly use JAWS now. Going from 8.4 to 10 should 
not be hard to learn. Microsoft disability probably would help you or 
you can down load the Windows Upgrade assistant and do it yourself. 
Original Message - From: "Nick Sarames via Talk" 


To: "Window-Eyes Discussion List" 
Cc: "Nick Sarames" 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 9:42 PM
Subject: A Question Or Two


So I'm still procrastinating. I'm currently using the latest 
Window--eyes and the that precedes Windows 10 (maybe it's Windows 
8.4?). If I knew for certain that WE is reasonably compatible with 
Windows 10 but my concern is that WE won't work at all. I guess my 
question is, is it more difficult to learn Jaws or Windows 10? Should 
I download Jaws before worrying about Windows 10? I really don't do 
much more than surfing and e-mailing, and the occasional ordering of 
food and miscellaneous products. Also, is it possible for the 
Michrosoft Disabilities desk to install Windows 10 using remote 
assist, and if so, would you recommend it?


If you would prefer e-mailing me privately, feel free.

nicksara...@msn.com

Thanks in advance.

Nick Sarames
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A Question Or Two

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

So I'm still procrastinating. I'm currently using the latest 
Window--eyes and the that precedes Windows 10 (maybe it's Windows 8.4?). 
If I knew for certain that WE is reasonably compatible with Windows 10 
but my concern is that WE won't work at all. I guess my question is, is 
it more difficult to learn Jaws or Windows 10? Should I download Jaws 
before worrying about Windows 10? I really don't do much more than 
surfing and e-mailing, and the occasional ordering of food and 
miscellaneous products. Also, is it possible for the Michrosoft 
Disabilities desk to install Windows 10 using remote assist, and if so, 
would you recommend it?


If you would prefer e-mailing me privately, feel free.

nicksara...@msn.com

Thanks in advance.

Nick Sarames
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New Spades Table

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Hi0, we need two players.
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Re: Braille Users, a bit off-topic

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I primarily use one hand for most of what I do, so in the case of 
Braille, I use the left hand, and specifically my index finger for 
reading. I was fortunately to have a rather rare device, a Perkins 
one-handed brailer. It's kinda cool because the 1-2-3 keys stay locked 
in a down position until you press space, or 4-5-6 keys pop the others 
up. Others can explain it a lot better than I can.

On 11/10/2019 8:37 PM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
> I can remember being asked "which is your braille finger?" when somebody 
> wanted to show me something.  I asked them what is a braille finger?  I 
> read with all my fingers.  If I had to have a preference, it would be 
> the middle three on both hands.  Pam.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Natalie via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 7:09 PM
> To: David via Talk
> Cc: Natalie
> Subject: Re: Braille Users, a bit off-topic
> 
> I've never heard that you use all 8 fingers to read braille. They just
> have to come along as you read.  I find that my left index finger is my
> main reading finger although I'm trying to train my right one, too.  It
> reads but very slowly and usually takes care of the ends of lines.  My
> left middle finger will work in an emergency.  With the Optacon it's the
> left index and possibly the middle would do, again in an emergency.
> 
> 
> Natalie
> 
> On 11/10/2019 6:55 PM, David via Talk wrote:
>> I know this is a bit off-topic, yet been wondering and wanted to hear
>> people's opinion on the matter. it seems this somehow have been
>> discussed before, still, what do you think.
>>
>> As any Braille user will know, we are supposed to use 8 fingers for
>> reading fast and effeciently. That is, the fingers on both hands, except
>> our thumbs. True enough, thumbs ar on the page, but I am not aware if
>> anyone would claim that they really read with their thumbs. When
>> discussing Braille reading back in time, my impression is that though we
>> use 8 fingers on the page, seemingly particularly ONE finger stands out
>> to be the number-one for reading. That finger is the one the user will
>> prefer, should he ever need to read something with only one finger. And
>> you often do want to do one-finger-reading. Whenever you are to find a
>> volume in your bookshelf, or you are to read the Braille tag telling the
>> color of your cloghing, or any other narrow and tight places. Try
>> searching for the page number in a book, using 8 fingers. Smile.
>>
>> My big wondering here, could be three-fold - at least. First of all, is
>> this the case, that you have one "main finger" for reading Braille?
>> Secondly, if so, say you are a right-handed person, is your prefered
>> finger then on your left or right hand; and consequently same question
>> for left-handed people. Number three, which finger is your prefered one?
>> Will it be your Index-finger, Middle-finger or does your preference sit
>> with any of the others? Even, we could be tempted to ask if people find
>> the same finger being their main "seeing" finger, whenever you are to
>> explore your way on any surface, or perform daily tasks around the
>> house, office or workshop.
>>
>> Those who happen to be users of the no-longer manufactured reading
>> equipment named Optacon, would be using mainly one finger, due to the
>> very shape of the Optacon itself. And though it might be nice to know
>> alternative on that equipment, my question widens out for Braille users
>> in general, due to that being a more representative group.
>>
>> For one, I find that I have one finger, that is of special good service.
>> Whether it comes to Braille, or simply just "seeing" what I am doing
>> when working, that one finger is my top preference. Should I - for any
>> reasons - find that the finger is out of business for a day or two,
>> braille reading as well as many daily living tasks, become somehow more
>> challenging. And I could think of people suffering from Diabetes - who
>> have to punch their finger tips seveeral times a day - probably they
>> prefer to leave their prefered-finger untouched by any puncher.
>>
>> Not to disturb you all in making up your own mind, for now I will leave
>> it untold which finger I personal find most useful. If anyone feels like
>> sharing their experience, or know of any study that has been dealing
>> with the matter, it would be nice to hear your feedback. Otherwise,
>> maybe this message might just have made you aware of something of lesser
>> interest, yet quite puzzling.
>>
>> Sorry, to those who find it too much off-topic.
>> ___
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
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Re: Thunderbird

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I wish your advice could be beneficial to me, but my issue is more basic 
and probably won't be solved until I finally upgrade to Windows-10. I 
like Thunderbird a lot. I don't receive a lot of e-mails, so it's easy 
for me to scroll down and find e-mails without keyboard shortcuts. My 
only issue is the same one I've had for months - when I'm composing an 
e-mail, I can only read what I wrote upon pressing the backspace key. 
Surely you can see how that could be an inconvenience (smile). But maybe 
I'll try your solution, maybe, somehow, it will solve other problems.

On 11/10/2019 3:18 PM, David via Talk wrote:
> Been playing a bit around, and thought to just share one tiny experience
> with you all.
> 
> 
> A good while ago, Thunderbird had an update, which included some
> Calendar functionality. If you were in the list of mails, and started to
> tab your way on the screen, you ended up with a load of "empty spots".
> That is, you press the tab-key, and WinEyes reports silence. Going to
> the View-menu, by Alt-V, you could see an entry named Calendar, usually
> reported to be grayed out, so you could not really do much about it.
> Further, you had an entry named "today", and even when you enter this
> submenu, and make sure it is turned off, it still seems to be in your
> way somehow, on the main screen.
> 
> 
> A day or two ago, I decided to explore the features of plugins and
> extensions for Thunderbird; which in effect, is much what Apps have been
> for WinEyes. They can extend, or expand the functionality of the
> program. Or, they could get very much in our way. Smile.
> 
> 
> I realized, that Thunderbird - by its own mind - have decided to install
> such a thing on my computer. Likely, this is something that
> automatically comes bundled with newer versions of the software, and
> thereby gets installed without the user's agreeing through the upgrade
> process. Happily, this kind of extra blah-blah can be removed, and I
> will in short terms show you how.
> 
> 
> 1. In the main screen of Thunderbird, hit Alt-T, to get to the Tools menu.
> 
> 2. Arrow down a couple of times, till you get to the AddOn manager, and
> hit Enter.
> 
> 3. You end up in a screen, holding a couple of links. Tab once or twice,
> to land on one of them. Turn off Browse Mode, with Ctrl-Shift-A.
> 
> 4. The screen has several tabs. To move around between them, maybe the
> best way is to tab your way around the screen, til you land on the
> tab-header line, where you can use your arrows, to choose the desired one.
> 
> 5. What you are looking for now, is the extension section of the screen.
> Once you have focused that one, press the tab key till you land on the
> list of installed extensions.
> 
> 6. You are specially interested in an extension named "Lightening".
> Arrow your way down the list, till you have focused that one.
> 
> 7. You've got two choices here. Either tab till you land on REMOVE, or
> hit the App-key (Shift-F10), and arrow till you get to REMOVE; then hit
> Enter.
> 
> 8. You will hear the screen reader telling you that the AddOn will be
> removed upon restart. So, Hit Ctrl-F4, to make sure to close the AddOn
> Manager.
> 
> 9. Close Thunderbird altogether, by hitting Alt-F4, and then upon
> waiting for a scond or two, restart your Email program.
> 
> 
> When restarted, you will find that Thunderbird's main screen, will
> behave a little more like in the "old days". Going to the View menu,
> both the "Today" and "Calendar" entries, will have disappeared
> altogether. And if you use your Tab-key in the main screen, you will no
> longer meet any silent spots. At least one issue has been removed from
> your planet. Smile.
> 
> 
> Now, if we only could have founde a way of setting up Thunderbird in
> such a way that it will let us edit our outgoing messages, and specially
> so our replying to a message, we could actually have seen Thunderbird
> again becoming a fully accessible piece of software; even for WinEyes
> users. Not sure if such a tweak is possible, but my guess is that a
> theme, or some adjustment in the very settings of the software will be a
> couple of places to look. If anyone have ideas, please share.
> 
> 
> Hope this might help some of you.
> 
> 
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Re: Test

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

So far, so good.

On 5/23/2019 8:39 PM, Brenda via Talk wrote:
> Hello list, I am just testing it because I unsubscribed with my Windstream 
> email but hopefully I have not deleted my Gmail email so that I will still 
> get emails from this list.
> 
> Dictated and sent from my iPhone
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Re: Help MLB.com

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Maybe turn off browse mode. sometimes, buttons and links can appear 
which you don't find in browse mode.

On 4/14/2019 4:53 PM, Robert Ringwald via Talk wrote:
> I have paid my $19.99 to mlb.com to renew for this season. I have a new 
> password. Cannot find where to log in. Help!
> 
> Bob
> r...@ringwald.com
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Re: Link for Game day audio website

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Remember, it's about making money. It's in the best interest of software 
developers to require consumers to upgrade.

On 3/2/2019 2:00 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
> I think it is a crock they require you to hav e an almost new computer. 
> For an audio feed?  They lump tv and tatio into the same thing.  Hell, 
> it should work with explorer atleast on seven.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2 Mar 2019, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
> 
>> I called and complained I helped make the previous  version accessible it
>> looks like I'm in for another round of battle.  This is bullshit They 
>> made
>> it accessible before it took 2 or 3 years.  The Android app isn't 
>> accessible
>> either.    Trust me I will not quit until it is fully accessible again.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk 
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
>> Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 10:18 AM
>> To: Dennis Long via Talk
>> Cc: Butch Bussen
>> Subject: RE: Link for Game day audio website
>>
>> 't know, not sure you can.  Last year they went to this combined page 
>> for TV
>> and radio which I don't find speech friendly.  Also it is very 
>> particular on
>> what will let you play the games on.  Their requirements says computer 
>> has
>> to be no more than 3 years old.  In seven, explorer won't work, you 
>> have to
>> use firefox.  I called and complained and they didn't seem to care much.
>> Also, I had to give them a different credit card number,  and they 
>> said they
>> couldn't do it on the phone, had to do it on line.  I told them I 
>> tried that
>> and couldn't make their page work with speech.  They finally had someone
>> call me back.  I wish they'd stuck with their old page and player.
>> I used my Amazon echo last year and it worked, but you couldn't get 
>> archived
>> games.  This year they say the Amazon skill won't be available as they 
>> are
>> improving it.  Didn't they have the whole off season to do that?
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 2 Mar 2019, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>>
>>> How do you get to the volume controls for the player?
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk
>>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer via Talk
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 12:56 AM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: Curtis Delzer
>>> Subject: Re: Link for Game day audio website
>>>
>>> http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mpa/index.jsp
>>> -
>>> Curtis Delzer, HS.
>>> WB6HEF
>>> San Bernardino, CA
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
>>> For membership options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dennisl1
>>> 982%40
>>> gmail.com.
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>>
>> world.net.
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Re: Link for Game day audio website

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Did you try a Google search? Try this:

https://www.mlb.com/live-stream-games

Or this:

https://www.mlb.com/live-stream-games/subscribe/gameday-audio

On 3/1/2019 10:00 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
> What is the link for MLB game day audio website?
> 
> ___
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Re: Windows 10 with narrator and jaws

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

As others here have suggested, you might be surprised how much you can 
find through Google and Youtube.

On 2/26/2019 9:55 AM, Ron or Susan Denis via Talk wrote:
>     I too am having to learn windows 10 and to make it harder, I am also 
> learning a new computer which lacks a manual.  Any help transitioning 
> from windows 7 to windows 10 would be appreciated.  While I'm asking, 
> anyone have a manual for an asus v75n1a?  RD.
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Brenda via Talk
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 7:51 PM
> To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
> Cc: Brenda
> Subject: Windows 10 with narrator and jaws
> 
> Hi Listers,
> 
> Before my win7 machine dies and/or win7 is no longer supported I decided 
> to learn to use my win10 laptop.
> 
> I like Narrator for most windows things but still need jaws for ff, tb, 
> and chrome.
> 
> I can’t figure out MS edge which is the only internet program that works 
> with narrator. It sure would be nice to be able to use it in case jaws 
> gets too expensive.
> 
> Windows mail is usuable, but I still have a lot to figure out.
> 
> Any tips on Ms edge or win10 with jaws or narrator would be appreciated. 
> I’ll save learning NVDA for later as that would just be too much to learn.
> 
> Thanks for any tips etc.
> 
> Brenda
> Still missing Window-Eyes but trying to move on.
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
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Re: Weather Or Not - After Reinstallation of Window-Eyes For Office

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

You're welcome to e-mail me off list, or is it just for paid clients?

On 1/19/2019 3:16 PM, Amanda Lee via Talk wrote:
> Ok I'll download yours.  I obtained the first version from the actual site
> and then I downloaded another person's archive.
> 
> Now, I can't read messages very well.  I opened the reading pane and
> unchecked everything and I still can't read most messages unless I forward
> them and they still don't resolve very well.  Outlook  also just received an
> update so I'm sure it's possible that something changed.
> 
> When I get this sorted out, I sure will save copies of what works!
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Amanda Lee
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
>  On Behalf
> Of Rod Hutton via Talk
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2019 11:19 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> Cc: Rod Hutton 
> Subject: RE: Weather Or Not - After Reinstallation of Window-Eyes For Office
> 
> Hi Amanda,
> 
> I'm not sure whether you simply have a corrupt app package, but you can find
> the most current version of the app in my public DropBox folder.
> The name of the file you're looking for is:
> weatherornot4.0.0.wepm
> and the URL of my DropBox folder is:
> http://bit.ly/2gX64M0
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Rod
> 
> Sent from Outlook for Windows
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk  On
> Behalf Of Amanda Lee via Talk
> Sent: January 18, 2019 3:21 PM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
> Cc: Amanda Lee 
> Subject: Weather Or Not - After Reinstallation of Window-Eyes For Office
> 
> First, I wish I would have thought to try the repair feature of WE Diag when
> it wouldn't sync with my authorized version of Office.
> 
>   
> 
> So I resorted to reinstalling WE for Office and of course all of the Apps
> which aren't standard were removed.
> 
>   
> 
> When I installed Weather Or Not, it now does not recognize
> address/City/State or Zipcode.  It was working earlier today before WE and
> Office stopped working together.
> 
>   
> 
> I certainly have other resources for Weather but I very much enjoyed that
> App to keep track of a few favorite places without having to click through a
> number of webpages.
> 
>   
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> 
>   
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
>   
> 
> Amanda Lee
> 
>   
> 
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Re: Weather Or Not - After Reinstallation of Window-Eyes For Office

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I realize that this isn't the appropriate forum for the following 
question (but it's where I was introduced to braille.wunderground.com), 
but is there a comprehensive weather site that is easy to navagate with 
a possibly outdated screen reader and Windows OS? Weather.gov is 
confusing (at best) and Wunderground has its issues as well.

On 1/18/2019 3:20 PM, Amanda Lee via Talk wrote:
> First, I wish I would have thought to try the repair feature of WE Diag when
> it wouldn't sync with my authorized version of Office.
> 
>   
> 
> So I resorted to reinstalling WE for Office and of course all of the Apps
> which aren't standard were removed.
> 
>   
> 
> When I installed Weather Or Not, it now does not recognize
> address/City/State or Zipcode.  It was working earlier today before WE and
> Office stopped working together.
> 
>   
> 
> I certainly have other resources for Weather but I very much enjoyed that
> App to keep track of a few favorite places without having to click through a
> number of webpages.
> 
>   
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> 
>   
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
>   
> 
> Amanda Lee
> 
>   
> 
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Re: Mail Client

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Thanks Bernie (looking forward to your observations) - sure seems like 
Windows may be part of the issue, regardless of how little that makes 
sense to me. But I've come to learn, when you have lots of software, 
things happen.

On 12/26/2018 11:43 AM, Bernie Perella via Talk wrote:
> Hi Larry,  Just this morning with reluctance, I decided to update Tbird
> to version 60.  With the update installed, it is running fine on windows
> 1809 and the last version of WE.  I have no problems either reading or
> composing messages.  I have been reading messages on this list and have
> been trying to figure out what might be causing problems for Nick and
> others.  I believe the problem might be coming from the WE setfiles.  I
> will write to Nick to see if we can figure things out.
> 
> On 12/21/2018 8:20 PM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
>> It may be Nick that since I am still on 1803 that the problems just
>> haven't had an opportunity to present themselves. Are you on 1809? I
>> think I have those version numbers correct.  Anyway no feature update
>> yet, most likely because I need to update my HD video card to a newer
>> model, but I'm not certain about that either.
>>
>>
>> Sure hope your situation improves, and mine stays the same .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/2018 6:57 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>> I always assumed it was a WE issue only, but maybe Windows is a
>>> component of the problem?
>>>
>>> On 12/21/2018 2:03 PM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
>>>> I sure wish I knew just what I'm doing right. I'm just afraid I'll
>>>> wake
>>>> up with the same issue any day now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Using Windows 10 and the final version of WE.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/21/2018 12:33 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>>>> I'm using Windows-8 and have exactly the same issues. I can't read my
>>>>> saved drafts either. As you would expect, I can read sent messages.
>>>>> Woah
>>>>> is I.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/21/2018 8:16 AM, David via Talk wrote:
>>>>>> Nice try, but in Thunderbird, even when writing this reply, it
>>>>>> does give
>>>>>> no result. That is, Ctrl-Insert-C, tells me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          No Cursor Found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can write the message, and the speech will echo my typing. If i
>>>>>> Backspace, I can hear one character at a time, as they are
>>>>>> deleted. But
>>>>>> any use of the Arrows, or things like Ctrl-Home, Ctrl-End - yields no
>>>>>> speech at all. That is even if the cursor actually moves. Have
>>>>>> tried the
>>>>>> Ctrl-S, for saving the message - like someone suggested. No help
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Strange why some reports they have no trouble with the newest
>>>>>> Thunderbird. Unless it has to do with the fact that I am still
>>>>>> running
>>>>>> under Win7, and likely will be for yet a while.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/21/2018 1:34 PM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
>>>>>>> Another thing you can try is Control+Insert+C. This makes
>>>>>>> Window-Eyes
>>>>>>> search for the cursor. It will usually say either "uses system
>>>>>>> cursor"
>>>>>>> or "no cursor found."
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/21/2018 4:19 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thanks Bob, yeah, similar issues - fortunately my Thunderbird
>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>>> spell check (I thinkit's Thunderbird which provides the spell
>>>>>>>> check, but
>>>>>>>> who knows). What stinks is, if I leave the composing window, I
>>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>>> know where I am in the e-mail. I have to assume the cursor is
>>>>>>>> where I
>>>>>>>> left it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/20/2018 9:38 PM, Robert Ringwald via Talk wrote:
>>>>>>>

Re: Mail Client

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I'm using Windows-8.

On 12/21/2018 8:20 PM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
> It may be Nick that since I am still on 1803 that the problems just 
> haven't had an opportunity to present themselves. Are you on 1809? I 
> think I have those version numbers correct.  Anyway no feature  update 
> yet, most likely because I need to update my HD video card to a newer 
> model, but I'm not certain about that either.
> 
> 
> Sure hope your situation improves, and mine stays the same .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/21/2018 6:57 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>> I always assumed it was a WE issue only, but maybe Windows is a
>> component of the problem?
>>
>> On 12/21/2018 2:03 PM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
>>> I sure wish I knew just what I'm doing right. I'm just afraid I'll  wake
>>> up with the same issue any day now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Using Windows 10 and the final version of WE.
>>>
>>> On 12/21/2018 12:33 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>>> I'm using Windows-8 and have exactly the same issues. I can't read my
>>>> saved drafts either. As you would expect, I can read sent messages. 
>>>> Woah
>>>> is I.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/21/2018 8:16 AM, David via Talk wrote:
>>>>> Nice try, but in Thunderbird, even when writing this reply, it does 
>>>>> give
>>>>> no result. That is, Ctrl-Insert-C, tells me:
>>>>>
>>>>>         No Cursor Found.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I can write the message, and the speech will echo my typing. If i
>>>>> Backspace, I can hear one character at a time, as they are deleted. 
>>>>> But
>>>>> any use of the Arrows, or things like Ctrl-Home, Ctrl-End - yields no
>>>>> speech at all. That is even if the cursor actually moves. Have 
>>>>> tried the
>>>>> Ctrl-S, for saving the message - like someone suggested. No help there
>>>>> either.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Strange why some reports they have no trouble with the newest
>>>>> Thunderbird. Unless it has to do with the fact that I am still running
>>>>> under Win7, and likely will be for yet a while.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/21/2018 1:34 PM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
>>>>>> Another thing you can try is Control+Insert+C. This makes Window-Eyes
>>>>>> search for the cursor. It will usually say either "uses system 
>>>>>> cursor"
>>>>>> or "no cursor found."
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/21/2018 4:19 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks Bob, yeah, similar issues - fortunately my Thunderbird 
>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>> spell check (I thinkit's Thunderbird which provides the spell
>>>>>>> check, but
>>>>>>> who knows). What stinks is, if I leave the composing window, I won't
>>>>>>> know where I am in the e-mail. I have to assume the cursor is 
>>>>>>> where I
>>>>>>> left it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/20/2018 9:38 PM, Robert Ringwald via Talk wrote:
>>>>>>>> Nick,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am using windows 10, win-eyes 9.5.4., and WLM. The same thing has
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> happening to me. It didn't used to do this. It started happening
>>>>>>>> all of
>>>>>>>> a sudden for no apparent reason.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I bring up WLM, I can write an email and see what I am writing.
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> that, while writing the 2nd email, I can't see or hear what I am
>>>>>>>> writing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have to close WLM and thenn open it. Then I can see what I am
>>>>>>>> writing.
>>>>>>>> But again, only the first email. Then have to close and re-open WLM
>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Bob
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Original

Re: Mail Client

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I always assumed it was a WE issue only, but maybe Windows is a 
component of the problem?

On 12/21/2018 2:03 PM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
> I sure wish I knew just what I'm doing right. I'm just afraid I'll  wake 
> up with the same issue any day now.
> 
> 
> Using Windows 10 and the final version of WE.
> 
> On 12/21/2018 12:33 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>> I'm using Windows-8 and have exactly the same issues. I can't read my
>> saved drafts either. As you would expect, I can read sent messages. Woah
>> is I.
>>
>> On 12/21/2018 8:16 AM, David via Talk wrote:
>>> Nice try, but in Thunderbird, even when writing this reply, it does give
>>> no result. That is, Ctrl-Insert-C, tells me:
>>>
>>>        No Cursor Found.
>>>
>>>
>>> I can write the message, and the speech will echo my typing. If i
>>> Backspace, I can hear one character at a time, as they are deleted. But
>>> any use of the Arrows, or things like Ctrl-Home, Ctrl-End - yields no
>>> speech at all. That is even if the cursor actually moves. Have tried the
>>> Ctrl-S, for saving the message - like someone suggested. No help there
>>> either.
>>>
>>>
>>> Strange why some reports they have no trouble with the newest
>>> Thunderbird. Unless it has to do with the fact that I am still running
>>> under Win7, and likely will be for yet a while.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On 12/21/2018 1:34 PM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
>>>> Another thing you can try is Control+Insert+C. This makes Window-Eyes
>>>> search for the cursor. It will usually say either "uses system cursor"
>>>> or "no cursor found."
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/21/2018 4:19 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Bob, yeah, similar issues - fortunately my Thunderbird contains
>>>>> spell check (I thinkit's Thunderbird which provides the spell 
>>>>> check, but
>>>>> who knows). What stinks is, if I leave the composing window, I won't
>>>>> know where I am in the e-mail. I have to assume the cursor is where I
>>>>> left it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/20/2018 9:38 PM, Robert Ringwald via Talk wrote:
>>>>>> Nick,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am using windows 10, win-eyes 9.5.4., and WLM. The same thing has
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> happening to me. It didn't used to do this. It started happening 
>>>>>> all of
>>>>>> a sudden for no apparent reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I bring up WLM, I can write an email and see what I am writing.
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> that, while writing the 2nd email, I can't see or hear what I am
>>>>>> writing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to close WLM and thenn open it. Then I can see what I am
>>>>>> writing.
>>>>>> But again, only the first email. Then have to close and re-open WLM
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message- From: Nick Sarames via Talk
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:44 PM
>>>>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>>>>> Cc: Nick Sarames
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mail Client
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If anyone has a solution to the arrow problem I have, you are
>>>>>> welcome to
>>>>>> e-mail me privately:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nicksara...@msn.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I am composing a message, I am unable to read what I have just
>>>>>> written.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/20/2018 9:01 AM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm not sure just how much I've ultimately got to add here, but I 
>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>> at least say this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My version of Thunderbird updated on me without either permission or
>>>>>>> encouragement. Naturally I did a double-take and hoped and prayed 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> my ability to edit would continue, and with my good luck or divine
>>>>>>> 

Re: Mail Client

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I'm using Windows-8 and have exactly the same issues. I can't read my 
saved drafts either. As you would expect, I can read sent messages. Woah 
is I.

On 12/21/2018 8:16 AM, David via Talk wrote:
> Nice try, but in Thunderbird, even when writing this reply, it does give
> no result. That is, Ctrl-Insert-C, tells me:
> 
>       No Cursor Found.
> 
> 
> I can write the message, and the speech will echo my typing. If i
> Backspace, I can hear one character at a time, as they are deleted. But
> any use of the Arrows, or things like Ctrl-Home, Ctrl-End - yields no
> speech at all. That is even if the cursor actually moves. Have tried the
> Ctrl-S, for saving the message - like someone suggested. No help there
> either.
> 
> 
> Strange why some reports they have no trouble with the newest
> Thunderbird. Unless it has to do with the fact that I am still running
> under Win7, and likely will be for yet a while.
> 
> 
> 
> David
> 
> On 12/21/2018 1:34 PM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
>> Another thing you can try is Control+Insert+C. This makes Window-Eyes
>> search for the cursor. It will usually say either "uses system cursor"
>> or "no cursor found."
>> Regards,
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/2018 4:19 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>> Thanks Bob, yeah, similar issues - fortunately my Thunderbird contains
>>> spell check (I thinkit's Thunderbird which provides the spell check, but
>>> who knows). What stinks is, if I leave the composing window, I won't
>>> know where I am in the e-mail. I have to assume the cursor is where I
>>> left it.
>>>
>>> On 12/20/2018 9:38 PM, Robert Ringwald via Talk wrote:
>>>> Nick,
>>>>
>>>> I am using windows 10, win-eyes 9.5.4., and WLM. The same thing has
>>>> been
>>>> happening to me. It didn't used to do this. It started happening all of
>>>> a sudden for no apparent reason.
>>>>
>>>> If I bring up WLM, I can write an email and see what I am writing.
>>>> after
>>>> that, while writing the 2nd email, I can't see or hear what I am
>>>> writing.
>>>>
>>>> I have to close WLM and thenn open it. Then I can see what I am
>>>> writing.
>>>> But again, only the first email. Then have to close and re-open WLM
>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>> -Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message- From: Nick Sarames via Talk
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:44 PM
>>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>>> Cc: Nick Sarames
>>>> Subject: Re: Mail Client
>>>>
>>>> If anyone has a solution to the arrow problem I have, you are
>>>> welcome to
>>>> e-mail me privately:
>>>>
>>>> nicksara...@msn.com
>>>>
>>>> When I am composing a message, I am unable to read what I have just
>>>> written.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/20/2018 9:01 AM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
>>>>> I'm not sure just how much I've ultimately got to add here, but I must
>>>>> at least say this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My version of Thunderbird updated on me without either permission or
>>>>> encouragement. Naturally I did a double-take and hoped and prayed that
>>>>> my ability to edit would continue, and with my good luck or divine
>>>>> intervention, it continued to function as it should.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing that really annoys me is that every time I go to open up the
>>>>> program, it takes an eternity to load and otherwise settle down. I was
>>>>> told that I  should remove all add ons, but the only one I have is the
>>>>> spellchecker, and removing that didn't help either, but I wasn't going
>>>>> to go without that  one anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I said all that only to say that I haven't encountered the editing
>>>>> problem at all, up to this point anyway - knock on wood.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/20/2018 6:15 AM, Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk wrote:
>>>>>> On this Windows 7 machine I am still using Windows Live Mail 2012.
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> not sure where you can get it. You would need the SET files and apps
>>>>>> that GW developed for it. It has its quirks, but works well for me.
>>>>>> You m

Re: Mail Client

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Thanks Bob, yeah, similar issues - fortunately my Thunderbird contains 
spell check (I thinkit's Thunderbird which provides the spell check, but 
who knows). What stinks is, if I leave the composing window, I won't 
know where I am in the e-mail. I have to assume the cursor is where I 
left it.

On 12/20/2018 9:38 PM, Robert Ringwald via Talk wrote:
> Nick,
> 
> I am using windows 10, win-eyes 9.5.4., and WLM. The same thing has been 
> happening to me. It didn't used to do this. It started happening all of 
> a sudden for no apparent reason.
> 
> If I bring up WLM, I can write an email and see what I am writing. after 
> that, while writing the 2nd email, I can't see or hear what I am writing.
> 
> I have to close WLM and thenn open it. Then I can see what I am writing. 
> But again, only the first email. Then have to close and re-open WLM again.
> 
> -Bob
> 
> 
> -----Original Message- From: Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 5:44 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Nick Sarames
> Subject: Re: Mail Client
> 
> If anyone has a solution to the arrow problem I have, you are welcome to
> e-mail me privately:
> 
> nicksara...@msn.com
> 
> When I am composing a message, I am unable to read what I have just 
> written.
> 
> On 12/20/2018 9:01 AM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
>> I'm not sure just how much I've ultimately got to add here, but I must
>> at least say this.
>>
>>
>> My version of Thunderbird updated on me without either permission or
>> encouragement. Naturally I did a double-take and hoped and prayed that
>> my ability to edit would continue, and with my good luck or divine
>> intervention, it continued to function as it should.
>>
>>
>> One thing that really annoys me is that every time I go to open up the
>> program, it takes an eternity to load and otherwise settle down. I was
>> told that I  should remove all add ons, but the only one I have is the
>> spellchecker, and removing that didn't help either, but I wasn't going
>> to go without that  one anyway.
>>
>>
>> I said all that only to say that I haven't encountered the editing
>> problem at all, up to this point anyway - knock on wood.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/20/2018 6:15 AM, Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk wrote:
>>> On this Windows 7 machine I am still using Windows Live Mail 2012. I'm
>>> not sure where you can get it. You would need the SET files and apps
>>> that GW developed for it. It has its quirks, but works well for me.
>>> You may want to work with Thunderbird and NVDA, but I have no
>>> experience with that combination.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
>>> http://lras.home.sprynet.com
>>> -Original Message- From: David via Talk
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 3:02 AM
>>> To: WE English Mailinglist
>>> Cc: David
>>> Subject: Mail Client
>>>
>>> Listers,
>>>
>>> Could need a bit of info here.
>>>
>>>
>>> As you know, the latest updates to Thunderbird, have broken the
>>> accessibility when writing new messages, as well as replying to any
>>> message received. Seeing how they slowly broke down any cooperation with
>>> WE in Firefox, I do take the guess, this is just the beginning of the
>>> end for our ability to use Thunderbird along with WinEyes. I do cling to
>>> my WinEyes, among other things, due to the fact that it is the only
>>> screen reader that to a certain extent works with some websites I am
>>> relying on. Like for instance our local grocery store, where neither
>>> NVDA or Jaws will let me do my shopping properly. Only good old WinEyes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyway, I want to have a backup for my mailing activity, the day when
>>> Mozilla finally pulls the plug for WinEyes and Thunderbird. What
>>> alternatives do we have, now adays? I know some of you have mentioned
>>> Becky. Is that the only one? Outlook, OK, but that demands me running
>>> Office - and does it work with all versions of office? Should I decide
>>> to go for things like Becky, will there be a steep learning curve? And
>>> will there be any particular settings or twixings to be done in my
>>> screen reader?
>>>
>>>
>>> Any feedback you might have, I am open ears. If you have some idea as to
>>> the functionality with any of the other screen readers, along with a
>>> given mail client, I want to know your experiences. Would be great,
>>> could I find a mail client, which 

Re: Mail Client

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Did you contact the Microsoft disability desk, or for that matter, Jaws 
to to enquirer about ways to make the software accessible to your 
grocery site? Maybe not all avenues have been exhausted. For that 
matter, did you contact the local store? It's a long shot, but you never 
know. As for e-mail clients, I'm not sure. I'd rather not switch clients 
(Thunderbird) and sweat it out until I finally decide I need to learn Jaws.

On 12/20/2018 3:02 AM, David via Talk wrote:
> Listers,
> 
> Could need a bit of info here.
> 
> 
> As you know, the latest updates to Thunderbird, have broken the
> accessibility when writing new messages, as well as replying to any
> message received. Seeing how they slowly broke down any cooperation with
> WE in Firefox, I do take the guess, this is just the beginning of the
> end for our ability to use Thunderbird along with WinEyes. I do cling to
> my WinEyes, among other things, due to the fact that it is the only
> screen reader that to a certain extent works with some websites I am
> relying on. Like for instance our local grocery store, where neither
> NVDA or Jaws will let me do my shopping properly. Only good old WinEyes.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I want to have a backup for my mailing activity, the day when
> Mozilla finally pulls the plug for WinEyes and Thunderbird. What
> alternatives do we have, now adays? I know some of you have mentioned
> Becky. Is that the only one? Outlook, OK, but that demands me running
> Office - and does it work with all versions of office? Should I decide
> to go for things like Becky, will there be a steep learning curve? And
> will there be any particular settings or twixings to be done in my
> screen reader?
> 
> 
> Any feedback you might have, I am open ears. If you have some idea as to
> the functionality with any of the other screen readers, along with a
> given mail client, I want to know your experiences. Would be great,
> could I find a mail client, which worked with whichever screen reader i
> happen to have up running at any time.
> 
> 
> Oh, and two more questions:
> 
> Where to get the client you might suggest? And is it for free, Annual
> payment, or Lifetime priced?
> 
> 
> Thanks alot, all of you.
> 
> 
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Re: Latest Thunderbird

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

This is what I was talking about last week. I can't use the arrow keys 
while composing a message.. Same is true for replying.

On 12/3/2018 10:07 AM, Natalie via Talk wrote:
> This happens to me, too, but more with Reply.  Can't proofread my 
> messages as it goes somewherre else or doesn't speak.  I'm replying to 
> your message but don't want to use backspace or even, once, arrow keys. 
> Updated a few days ago. If I want to reply I usually open a new message.
> 
> 
> Natalie Johnson
> 
> On 12/3/2018 8:32 AM, David via Talk wrote:
>> Yesterday, Thunderbird wanted to update itself. I let it do so, hoping
>> to stay up-to-date with all security.
>>
>>
>> Everything has worked fine here, with Thunderbird and WE9.54.
>>
>>
>> After updating Thunderbird, I have done a real restart of my computer,
>> as I know this usually is necessary when updating things.
>>
>>
>> Now I can navigate the lists of mails in TB, and opening them, I can
>> read the content just fine.
>>
>>
>> But whenever I try to write a message, WE has big trouble. It echoes
>> well enough my typing, and if I use the backspace I will be told what
>> character is being deleted. But try using the Arrow-keys, to navigate
>> what you are writing; it simply does not work. If you Shift-Tab back to
>> edit the subject line, WE is silent as to what is in the subject field.
>> Tabbing back to the main body of the posting, all WE will say, is
>>
>>       About:Blank.
>>
>> Should you decide to try turning on Browse mode, WE lets you do so, and
>> then just dings at any keystroke - even the Tab-key. And just forget to
>> turn off browse mode again, you are told that Browse mode is not 
>> available.
>>
>>
>> Listers,
>>
>> Is this the end for newer versions of the mailing program - just as well
>> as we have seen with the newest versions of the Firefox browser? If so,
>> is there any place to download the latest working version of
>> Thunderbird? Or, is it my computer that is all mixed up? Anyone else
>> seeing these behaviors?
>>
>>
>> I managed to write - and edit my postings - by help of NVDA. So
>> apparently, that screen reader keeps up with Mozilla's ever ongoing
>> eagerness of changing layout. Have not yet tried Jaws, so don't know if
>> any of the above will apply.
>>
>>
>> thanks for any feaedback.
>>
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/nataliej%40kingcon.com.
>>  
>>
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> 
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Re: Problem With WE & Thunderbird

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Of course, after I pressed alt-space, I arrowed down to maximize, and it 
said maximize disabled. But I hit enter anyway, we'll see.

On 11/28/2018 4:46 AM, Michael via Talk wrote:
> make sure the window is maxamized.
> 
> On 28/11/18 8:41 pm, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>> Thanks, so what am I doing wrong? I can't read the e-mail I am
>> composing, at least not when I use arrow keys.
>>
>> On 11/28/2018 4:36 AM, Michael via Talk wrote:
>>> not a problem.
>>>
>>> cheers Micael.I WAS ABLE TO TYPE AND EMAIL IN THUNDER BIRD WITH We
>>>
>>> On 28/11/18 7:36 pm, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>>> But I am still having difficulty reading my e-mail while composing it.
>>>>
>>>> On 11/28/2018 3:34 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>>>> Just as an adendum, I restarted my computer, and that has helped with
>>>>> many of my issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/28/2018 3:24 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>>>>> Hello:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't want to clutter this list (too much), so if someone who is
>>>>>> knowledgeable about Thunderbird, can e-mail me off list, I would
>>>>>> appreciate that. I just gave permission for Thunderbird to give me
>>>>>> updates. As a result, WE is less compatible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And as I write this, I can't use the arrow keys to check what I 
>>>>>> wrote.
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>>>>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
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Re: Problem With WE & Thunderbird

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

But I am still having difficulty reading my e-mail while composing it.

On 11/28/2018 3:34 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
> Just as an adendum, I restarted my computer, and that has helped with
> many of my issues.
> 
> On 11/28/2018 3:24 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>> I don't want to clutter this list (too much), so if someone who is
>> knowledgeable about Thunderbird, can e-mail me off list, I would
>> appreciate that. I just gave permission for Thunderbird to give me
>> updates. As a result, WE is less compatible.
>>
>> And as I write this, I can't use the arrow keys to check what I wrote.
>> ___
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Re: Problem With WE & Thunderbird

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Just as an adendum, I restarted my computer, and that has helped with 
many of my issues.

On 11/28/2018 3:24 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
> Hello:
> 
> I don't want to clutter this list (too much), so if someone who is
> knowledgeable about Thunderbird, can e-mail me off list, I would
> appreciate that. I just gave permission for Thunderbird to give me
> updates. As a result, WE is less compatible.
> 
> And as I write this, I can't use the arrow keys to check what I wrote.
> ___
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Problem With WE & Thunderbird

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Hello:

I don't want to clutter this list (too much), so if someone who is 
knowledgeable about Thunderbird, can e-mail me off list, I would 
appreciate that. I just gave permission for Thunderbird to give me 
updates. As a result, WE is less compatible.

And as I write this, I can't use the arrow keys to check what I wrote.
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Re: strange message popping up

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

If you can cut and paste some of the text, maybe do a Google search - 
perhaps others (outside of this list) have experienced this issue.

On 9/3/2018 4:09 PM, David via Talk wrote:
> Won't know what this message is all about, so can't help you directly.
> 
> 
> Still, I wanted to let you know, that I find NVDA generally is good at
> picking up dialogs. So, if possible, whenever the dialog comes up, try
> loading NVDA, and switch to the dialog. See if it will read the screen
> to you.
> 
> 
> Going by memory, I wonder if Insert-B, would read the whole screen to
> you. Again by memory, I think that works in both NVDA and Jaws.
> 
> 
> Hope you get the meaning of the dialog, and can take care of your issue.
> 
> 
> On 9/3/2018 3:22 PM, BK via Talk wrote:
>> Hello, I keep getting a message that wants to update something on my
>> laptop. The message pops up and gives me these choices, "Let's get back
>> on track. Restart now. Wait an hour."
>> If anything else is in the dialog, Jaws won't read it, so I have no idea
>> where this message is coming from. Does anyone know if this is a windows
>> 10 update, or what? Any help is appreciated.
>>
>> Butch
>>
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Re: Considering VoiceOver

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

But sometimes it's true. So many key commands we associate with WE or 
Jaws (or an e-mail client for that matter) are actually Microsoft commands.

On 8/27/2018 5:41 PM, geodom--- via Talk wrote:
> Whatever company you call blames the other guy, rather than themselves 
> or their products.  Pam.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 10:46 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Tony C
> Subject: Re: Considering VoiceOver
> 
> Yep! They always blame it on anything except jaws. lmao.
> 
> -Original Message- From: geodom--- via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 9:09 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: geo...@optonline.net
> Subject: Re: Considering VoiceOver
> 
> Oh yeah!  So Microsoft can ping pong it back to them!  Right!  Pam.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 7:15 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Tony C
> Subject: Re: Considering VoiceOver
> 
> Jaws still isn't that great. lol. If I set jaws to load at the log on
> screen, and the PC goes to sleep, when I wake it up jaws will not speak. I
> have to hope and cross my fingers and try logging in. then I can start
> window eyes because jaws still will not run. Once I start WE then I can 
> turn
> it off and start jaws and it speaks. I left jaws back in 2004 because it
> didn't work well with a site builder I ws using and WE worked just fine. I
> have never had a productive encounter with FS tech support. 95 percent of
> the time they tell you to contact Microsoft. LIKE, WHAT?
> 
> -Original Message- From: geodom--- via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 2:34 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: geo...@optonline.net
> Subject: Re: Considering VoiceOver
> 
> But I could do more with window eyes with the computer right out of the 
> box.
> Pam.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Dennis Long via Talk
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 11:31 PM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Cc: Dennis Long
> Subject: RE: Considering VoiceOver
> 
> Jaws is a very good screen reader.  People need to give it time.  You 
> didn't
> learn WindowEyes over night and you won't learn Jaws over night either.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of CJ MAY via Talk
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 4:12 AM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Cc: CJ MAY
> Subject: RE: Considering VoiceOver
> 
> I did consider going down this route but I am basically lazy and it would
> mean learning a new operating system. I am so familiar with the Microsoft
> operating system and Windows that in the end I bit the bullet and went over
> to Jaws.
> Do I still miss Window-eyes? Yes, but migrating to Jaws hasn't been as
> challenging as I feared and it helped being so familiar with the Windows
> operating system.
> 
> Alison
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk  On
> Behalf Of George Savory via Talk
> Sent: 23 August 2018 18:57
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> Cc: George Savory 
> Subject: Considering VoiceOver
> 
> Listers,
> Been using Win-Eyes  since Win-Eyes 3X. As Win-Eyes will not be updated, I
> am strongly considering going to VoiceOver on Apple. Using VoiceOver on my
> iPhone with Safari works perfectly. I don't know if Jaws will ever work 
> well
> with websites that use calenders; besides, I won't have to be upgrading a
> screen reader  everytime there is an upgrade
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Re: Hello

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Hmm, when did this become a religious list?

On 7/22/2018 7:02 AM, Chester Thrash via Talk wrote:
> Welcome to the group. Hope you all will have a really blessed day today.
> 
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Re: still having same problem with toggle

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I'm in a similar situation, and while I'm pleased with 8.1, remember 
that as of 2020, it will not be supported (if I am correct).

On 6/26/2018 4:47 AM, peter Chin via Talk wrote:
> Hello Rod,
> 
> You have been so helpful. It's thanks to people like you and tom and 
> many others on this list tha I have been able to keep going with 
> Window-Eyes. I have refused to update to Windows 10 for now, at least 
> and am still using Windows 8.1 which serves my purposes. Maybe if I hear 
> that the new Narrator is really useful, I might update to Windows 10.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 12:12 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Rod Hutton
> Subject: RE: still having same problem with toggle
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> It is possible that you have outdated versions of some of the default 
> Window-Eyes apps.
> Unfortunately, the App Central app repository seems to be off-line at 
> present, and so I have placed a zip archive containing the default 
> Window-Eyes apps in my DropBox.
>> From within this archive, I recommend installing Office Enhanced and 
>> Outlook 
> Enhanced just to be certain you have the most up to date versions of 
> these apps.
> The link to this archive in my DropBox is:
> http://bit.ly/2tqUf3i
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Rod
> 
> Sent from Outlook 2010 for Windows
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
> Behalf Of Kurlander Richard (75) via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 2:10 PM
> To: cur...@calweb.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Kurlander Richard (75)
> Subject: RE: still having same problem with toggle
> 
> I don't know why at work it gives me a problem no problem at home.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+rkurlan=schools.nyc@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
> Behalf Of Curtis Delzer via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 1:25 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> Cc: Curtis Delzer 
> Subject: Re: still having same problem with toggle
> 
> I am running the latest updated windows and we9.5.4 and mine does say "
> "voice global toggle scope"  in the keyboard menu.
> -
> Curtis Delzer, HS.
> WB6HEF
> San Bernardino, CA
> 
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 12:46:19 +
> "Kurlander Richard \(75\) via Talk"  wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> When I am in the  keyboard menu and I go to voice and hit the tab key
>> I hear toggle only  in order to hear voice global toggle scope I must
>> hit the enter key twice why? This happens when there is a toggle
>> involved no matter which menu you are in. this happens with 1709
>> windows version that I am using a t work at home doesn't happen use
>> ver 1803 and in fact never happened on my  home machine. If you can
>> help me fix the problem please call me 2128021633 -Original
>> Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rkurlan=schools.nyc@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>> Behalf Of Orlando Enrique Fiol via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:12 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
>> Cc: Orlando Enrique Fiol 
>> Subject: Re: still having same problem with toggle
>>
>> At 04:06 PM 6/5/2018, Kurlander Richard \(75\) via Talk wrote:
>>  >Whenever I go to  the keyboard settings it says toggle button I have 
>>  >to hit enter twice to hear for example voice global toggle scope. Why?
>>  >I am using windows 10 version 1709 my it. Guy just reimaged the 
>>  >machine and the problem isn't fixed.
>>
>>
>> In this case, the toggle button will rotate you between global and app 
>> settings. If you choose global, your settings will be applied to all 
>> setfiles.
>> Orlando Enrique Fiol
>>
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Re: `news about jws

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Lots of silly comments on this list.  Who came to whom regarding the 
merger?  That is not a rhetorical question.  I am asking sincerely.  Who 
broached whom?

On 4/28/2018 7:18 AM, Tony C via Talk wrote:
> If you think the price is going to decrease, you are living in a dream 
> world. The whole reason of getting rid of WE was to have a "choke-hold" 
> on screen reader users.
> 
> -Original Message- From: bj colt via Talk
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2018 4:03 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: bj colt
> Subject: Re: `news about jws
> 
> Hi Lynn,
> 
> My apologies if the names I called those at the top of the tree in VFO
> offended you. My sheer anger and frustration has overwhelmed me. It is
> rarely I make such statements and more so on this list. I've never been so
> angry or upset at a situation where blind people will be forced to pay much
> more than they are just now. Please believe me it won't be the same 
> price as
> now. That I can guarantee. Just look at the price of Microsoft windows 365
> office. Remember, that is not just for one or two years. that is for life.
> When we bought a copy of Office that copy lasted and will last for years.
> I'm still using a 2007 copy of office on my windows 7 machine. If I had 
> paid
> a monthly subscription for that length of time. I could have bought at 
> least
> 8 copied of office.
> 
> I could say a lot more Lynn regarding the merger and subsequent demise of
> Window-eyes. Call it conspiracy theory or not. Had this happened in the up
> they would have been referred to the Monopolies commission. I don't
> apologies for using those names because that is how I feel towards them.
> Them meaning those at the top. Not the employees. I am not normally this 
> way
> about things and don't easily get annoyed. People that know me would agree
> with that. I hate to see blind or disabled people getting ripped off and
> treated the way we are.
> 
> I recently learned that companies who produce adaptive technology for the
> disabled and blind get government grants. How much I have no idea. I have a
> copy of jws and will continue to use window-eyes till I can't use it any
> more.
> 
> Live long and prosper, John
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Thunderbird Question

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Is it called trash?  I seem to have two trash folders, one contains all 
my deleted e-mails and the other seems to be empty.

On 4/26/2018 10:27 AM, L Urie via Talk wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm using the latest version of Thunderbird.  I want to check my junk 
> folder.  However, I can't find where it is.  If anyone can point me in 
> the right direction, it would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Lee
> 
> 
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Re: Musings and touching base

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Have you contacted Ameritrade?  Have you tried multiple screen readers 
and web browsers?

On 4/12/2018 7:59 PM, Manny Gee via Talk wrote:
> Greetings to all,
> 
> I second Brenda's well wishes to GW Micro Staff!
> 
> It is unfortunate that monopolies keep propping up in different
> industries via mergers and acquisition.
> 
> case in point is Window Eyes being bought by Jaws parent company, and
> then stopping any further updates for Window Eyes.
> The other, is Scottrade, which had a website and an Elite program, which
> were both totally blind accessible. Ameritrade bought Scottrade then
> proceeded to throw away both the website and the elite program, and the
> Ameritrade website and trading programs are not accessible to the blind.
> 
> In a sane world, How can this be justified?
> Stay well and May The Force be with us all!
> 
> Manny
> 
> 
> 
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Re: screen reader compatibility

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Not mentioning WE is the responsible thing to do.  Different people have 
different needs, and accessible to one person may not be accessible to 
another.  And while things may work now, you never know when suddenly, 
something you did not consider may cause a problem.

On 3/30/2018 2:02 PM, David via Talk wrote:
> Interesting enough. Good thing some of us still are at Win7 or 8, and
> from what I can see, will not be affected by these changes.
> 
> 
> Just keep in mind, dropping support does not necessarily mean stop
> working. It's been several years now, since GW dropped support for XP,
> but from what certain users tell, apparently WinEyes still runs well
> enough under that OS. In case the same would be the situation this time,
> you might still be able to run WinEyes under the updated Win10. You just
> won't be heard, should you report any trouble down the line. And if it
> works, why despair. That is why, I feel there was kind of a hole in the
> information. They simply just left WinEyes out of the whole story, with
> a quick note that it was no longer being manufactured; as if we did not
> know that already. (smiles). Would have been more helpful, and far less
> disturbing, had they told the reader to what extent they think WinEyes
> still might be working in the new environment.
> 
> 
> Time will show, and if i got the message right, this will take place in
> less than two weeks time, so the wait should not be too long for anyone.
> Will be interesting to read user feedbacks, on how it all affects WinEyes.
> 
> 
> On 3/29/2018 4:49 PM, brice Mijares via Talk wrote:
>>
>>   I copied this from another list.Hi everyone,
>> Below is an update on screen reader compatibility notice and a
>> schedule of events regarding Version 1803:
>> A few weeks ago I sent out a preliminary notice regarding compatible
>> screen readers with Windows 10 Version 1803. The below notice replaces
>> the preliminary one and should be considered official compatibility
>> notice from this forum cluster:
>> Windows 10 Version 1803 compatible screen readers: any screen reader
>> supporting Version 1703 or later will work, although you may need to
>> install releases optimized for 1803. The following are known
>> compatible screen readers:
>> • Narrator : yes.
>> • NonVisual Desktop Access: 2018.1.1 or later.
>> • JAWS for Windows: 18.0.4350 or later, 2018.1802.78 or later.
>> • ZoomText: 11.5 or later.
>> • Any screen reader declaring support for Version 1703 (Creators
>> Update) or later (except Window-Eyes).
>> Note: Window-Eyes is no longer supported as a compatible screen reader
>> from this forum cluster as the product was discontinued.
>> Also, based on latest information available, the tentative schedule of
>> events regarding Version 1803 (on this forum cluster) is as follows:
>> • Around April 3, 2018 or whenever it happens: Version 1803 build will
>> be sent to release preview Insiders. From that day on, the entire
>> forum cluster will enter Version 1803 era.
>> • Around April 10, 2018: Version 1803 makes public debut.
>> • April 11, 2018 or at most 24 hours after public release: critical
>> standby begins. This is a 72-hour period where all activity on the
>> Win10 forum will be suspended except for Version 1803 upgrade reports
>> and impressions. This is also the period when Microsoft staff and
>> screen reader vendor reps will get temporary moderator privileges so
>> they can pass on critical information for screen reader users (please
>> show them respect during that time).
>> • Between 1803 release date and 60 days after: countdown for Version
>> 1709 is in effect. During this time cumulative update notices for both
>> 1709 and 1803 will be sent to the forum cluster.
>> • June 30, 2018 or end of 60 day countdown, whichever happens earlier:
>> cumulative update announcements for 1709 will cease. The next KB alert
>> for 1709 will be on April 2019 once it exits consumer support.
>> • December 2018: cumulative update for 1803 will cease.
>> • October 2019: last KB alert for 1803 as it exits consumer support.
>> The above schedule is subject to change – depends on when Version 1803
>> will hit the air.
>> Cheers,
>> Joseph
>> _._,_._,_
>>
>> Groups.io Links:
>> You receive all messages sent to this group.
>> View/Reply Online (#22858) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute
>> This Topic | New Topic
>> Mute #winten1803
>> Windows 10 Screen Reader Users
>> United under the banner of Windows 10, sharing our expertise, serving
>> the community
>>
>> Email and website addresses:
>> * Subscribing: win10+subscr...@groups.io
>> * Posting: wi...@groups.io
>> * Leaving: win10+unsubscr...@groups.io
>> * Contacting the leadership team: win10+ow...@groups.io
>> * Group website: http://groups.io/g/win10
>> * Forum wiki (publicly viewable): http://groups.io/g/win10/wiki
>> Change Your Subscription
>> Group Home
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>> _._,_._,_
>> 

Re: top bottom index

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

You need to read this list thoroughly.  Someone else posted the Jaws 
equivalent of top-bottom.

On 3/23/2018 9:24 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:
> I would like to see Jaws to be able to speak top bottom like Window Eyes?
> 
> -Original Message- From: BK via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:57 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: BK
> Subject: Re: top bottom index
> 
> Found it, thank you Tom. Now, do you or anyone on the list know if Jaws
> has an equivalent, speak top bottom, setting?
> 
> Butch
> 
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Re: Did You Accidentially Delete A Message? {Was} NVDA mailing list

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Hi, can you e-mail me off list?  I have a TB question regarding two junk 
folders, thanks.

nicksara...@msn.com

On 3/1/2018 1:46 PM, brice Mijares via Talk wrote:
> I have both a junk folder and a trash folder in Thunderbird. I clear 
> both out by selecting select all followed by shift delete.
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Re: Did You Accidentially Delete A Message? {Was} NVDA mailing list

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Also remember that Youtube and its parent company Google can be valuable 
resource.  There are likely thousands of videos and podcasts on any 
subject (no matter how obscure) you can imagine.

On 3/1/2018 11:42 AM, David via Talk wrote:
> For all members of the list,
> 
> As a friendly reminder:
> 
> 
> We all eventually touch that Delete-key, when it was inconvenient. That
> important message should not have been deleted; and what do you do now?
> 
> 
> First of all, all the mail clients I have been in touch with, do have a
> Trash folder. Whenever you hit the Delete-key, messages typically are
> moved there. They are not altered, or modified in any way. As a matter
> of fact, do you go to the trash folder of your mail program, you can
> quickly "re-insert" the message, back inot the folder it originally
> belonged to. So, before asking the group members to send out yet another
> message, generating extra clutter on the list, and taking up time from
> others, may you please check your trash folder first.
> 
> 
> One thing is, when you have deleted a message that is several days,
> weeks or even months old. It then could be a mess to try refinding it in
> the trash folder. But if you know it is only a few days ago the original
> message was received, it should be not too hard to bring it back on-stage.
> 
> 
> Oh for sure, there is a way to permanently delete a message. It might
> often be a combo with the delete-key, like Shift-Del, or Ctrl-Del -
> depending on your mail client. Did you happen to use that combo when
> deleting the message? Please, don't despair all yet. At the bottom of
> any message from the list, there is a short note that reads:
> 
> 
> List archives can be found at 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> 
> How about that? Smiles.
> 
> And then, what if you are using a web-based mail service? I was under
> the impression that even those services do offer the Trash feature,
> although they might name it indifferently.
> 
> OK, was it only a short note you are looking for, like a mail address or
> some subscription information, it might not be too hard for others to
> retype and resend the info. But what about when you ask for a
> wtep-through guide of some sort? Besides, even refinding subscription
> info or the like, might take a bit of time from others, in their sincere
> wish to help you out.
> 
> Again, I did not mean to discourage anyone from asking questions on the
> list. I just wanted to remind all, that sometimes our mistakes do call
> for a tiny bit of fooling around, on our own computer. Smiles. Let's ask
> the list, when we do not have a chance of getting to the info ourselves,
> or when we know someone might have an answer that works the best.
> 
> this list is not the worst, believe me. I have seen lists where people
> tend to ask the same old questions over and over again, or spread the
> same old story or other information. It seems no trouble, it is only a
> line or two. But did you all know, an electronic mail holds numerous
> lines. It has a load of technical information enclosed, to let the
> servers between you and the recipient know how to handle the message. If
> the mail is written in HTML, it will hold loads and hives of coding.
> All-in-all, even if you only typed in 23 characters, your actual load on
> the net servers might be more like 1000. In today's world, 1000
> characters, or approx one Kilobyte, might seem harmless. But what do you
> think, if one thousand users do the same? Or even, remember when you ask
> a question, someone has to reply, and their reply might hold even a copy
> of your message, raising the total load into the multiples. As a matter
> of fact, even small clutter on every list, might bgenerate tons of
> unnecessary net resources. And net resources are not out of the blue.
> They do take servers to spin, fans to cool, and distribution centrals
> for the cabling to operate. All of this takes electricity. Well, not
> much to bother, but still might be worth to remind us all sometimes.
> 
> BTW, it was told on the radio the other day, that when you have a video
> conference with your friend - say over services like Skype, the two of
> you are actually generating loads of net resource consumption.
> "Ah," you might think, "Can't really amount into anything much. After
> all, it is all electronics!"
> Surprise! At least I got quite astonished, when learning that such a
> simple video conference, actually consumes electrical power, equal to
> that of having TWO refridgerators running simultaneously and continiously.
> 
> Anyone wondered why we pay for our internet subscription? Smiles.
> 
> 
> On 3/1/2018 4:31 PM, BK via Talk wrote:
>> Hello, the other day someone posted the address to join the NVDA email
>> list. I accidently deleted it. Will you please resend the info to join
>> that list? Sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks.
>>
>> Butch
>>
>> ___
>> Any views or 

Re: from window eyes to jaws to NVDA

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I realize that you can't speak for others, and that each of us has 
different needs, priorities, and biases, but I wonder why why some find 
Jaws to be clunky while others (such as you) are quite satisfied.  I 
wonder if using "outdated" software (such as Windows-7) contributes to 
the problem.

That said, while I took advantage of the Jaws offer, I have yet to 
migrate to Jaws and have yet to download Windows-10.  Things are running 
smoothly and I hate to rock the boat.  The other issue which makes me 
hesitate is Jaws' reliance on the insert key.  I use a left-handed 
keyboard with the microsoft feature Sticky Keys and have never really 
understood how to incorporate the insert feature with the caps lock key, 
but I digress.

On 2/22/2018 3:10 PM, lynn white via Talk wrote:
> Not to be contrary, I've been a Jaws user at home for over three years 
> and love it after being a devoted Window-Eyes user since almost day one.
> 
> 
> I used Jaws for a number of years at work.  But, when they offered a 
> great home use program, I jumped at the chance and was glad that I did 
> even though I hated to see Window-Eyes go.
> 
> 
> My personal feeling is that one is better served by having access to 
> more than one screen reader as well as learning more than one internet 
> browser.  Praise the Lord that we have choices.
> 
> 
> I will say that these upgrades to these products gets rather expensive. 
> Not blaming Freedom Scientific.  But, when you have a family and/or you 
> also have other interests or needs, even the sma program becomes another 
> cost that requires budget juggling.
> 
> 
> On 2/22/2018 12:36 PM, brice Mijares via Talk wrote:
>> I also think Jaws sucks! I wasted money migrating to jaws. Don't 
>> remember the cost for 2 upgrades, somewhere around 120 bucks. I gave 
>> it  a go for about one month and said F it! Been using NVDA ever 
>> since. occasionally use window eyes navigating windows itself, like 
>> control, panel, settings etc. MS one core voice David sounds pretty 
>> good in NVDA.
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Re: version 9.5.4

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Since VFO (apparently) no longer supports WE, why do you need a serial 
number?  Why not just take a chance that there are old versions (for 
download) floating around the net?

On 2/22/2018 4:05 PM, Donald L. Roberts via Talk wrote:
> I hope this request won't cause any list member to get bent out of shape as
> it certainly is not intended to offend anyone.
> 
> Yesterday, I contacted V F O to request a link to the Window-eyes version
> 9.5.4.  I did so because my copy is acting flaky, so I wanted to completely
> uninstall and subsequently reinstall it.  Unfortunately, my CD has been
> damaged and is now unplayable.  V F O said that they discontinued that
> service, so I am now up the creek without a paddle if or until some kind
> soul will provide me with a copy of the program along with a serial number.
> I know my serial number, but it does me no good because I do not believe
> that I could substitute my serial for the one on another user's CD.
> 
> So I will say no more but hope that some kind list member will write me off
> list at:
> 
> donald.robert...@gmail.com .
> 
> Thanks for any assistance.
> 
> Don Roberts
> 
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Re: Problem when on websites

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

In IE, you can also press f4.

On 2/4/2018 12:04 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
> Peter,
> :I've always done the same, just with Alt-D to go to the address bar and 
> then F6 to return to the page, and it works fine. I can't read the text 
> immediately with the arrows because it's all selected by default. So I 
> just press Control-C to copy it, which is the only reason I'm going 
> there anyway. But if I arrow back and forth a bit it will start reading 
> after IE catches up and deselects the URL.
> For what it's worth, this is on Windows 10.
> Hth,
> Tom
> 
> 
> On 2/3/2018 1:43 AM, peter Chin via Talk wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I hope someone can help me with a strange problem I have when on the 
>> internet. I am using Window-Eyes on a Windows8.1 machine and I 
>> normally use IE to get to web pages. I used to be able to get the url 
>> of the page I am on by pressing F6 when I can read the url with my 
>> arrow keys and copy it to my clipboard. About a month ago, this 
>> suddenly changed. Now when I press F6 I can no longer read the url 
>> with my arrow keys to copy it to my clipboard, though I can read it 
>> with  my mouse when I route mouse to cursor.  How can I regain this 
>> capability?
>>
>> I hope what I have described makes sense and I hope someone can help 
>> me out.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
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Re: Windows-10 Upgrade Question

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Thanks, I have Windows-8.1, and the latest WE.

On 1/11/2018 11:58 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
> you need to uninstall window eyes first if you have windows 7 because 
> the video drivers are not the same with windows 10.
> you also need window eyes version 9.2 or higher before it will run on 
> windows 10.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 4:53 PM
> To: Nick Sarames via Talk
> Cc: Butch Bussen
> Subject: Re: Windows-10 Upgrade Question
> 
> Yep, Rod is right.  pro is $200 after the cut off date.  I upgraded a
> couple of my machines just because.  Not my main ones yet.  Had lots of
> problems, long long story.  In neither case would the upgrade program
> work.  had to use their media creater and get full version and then did
> upgrade from that.  Also, in both cases, window-eyes seemed to have a
> conflict leaving it.  Had to do a uninstall and reinstall.  First
> machine I had we set to run at startup and it just put the machine in a
> loop rebooting, so had to blow that completely away, so no way to go
> back to seven on that one.  On the second machine, I set it not to run.
> When I tried, locked up the machine, so I just rebooted.  Are we having
> fun yet?
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
> 
> 
> rOn Thu, 11 Jan 2018, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Rod, I realize there are issues with WE & 10, but as far as you
>> know, can WE handle the basics?  My hope was to be able to get
>> comfortable (somewhat) with 10 before tackling Jaws.
>>
>> On 1/11/2018 7:12 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
>>> Hi Nick,
>>>
>>> Well, all I can do is recommend that you read the following page 
>>> carefully and I believe you will conclude that the upgrade is free 
>>> until Jan. 16, and, after then, you'll be paying the usual cost of 
>>> the version of Windows 10 you require:
>>>
>>> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rod
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk 
>>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
>>> Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
>>> Sent: January 11, 2018 3:23 AM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>>> Cc: Nick Sarames <nicksara...@msn.com>
>>> Subject: Windows-10 Upgrade Question
>>>
>>> This is sort of one of those questions where, Mommy says no,  but I'm
>>> hoping Daddy will say yes.  I clicked on the Windows-10 upgrade, and I'm
>>> given the choice to run or save.  I'd like to be able to save the file
>>> until after the free upgrade has passed (when a 3rd party (my sighted
>>> friend) can assist me.  A rep from Microsoft disability says my request
>>> cannot be accomplished.  Is this true?  Is there any other way around
>>> it?  And while I'm at it, how much will this upgrade cost after the
>>> deadline?  Please Daddy?  Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Nick
>>> ___
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Re: Windows-10 Upgrade Question

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Thanks Rod, I realize there are issues with WE & 10, but as far as you 
know, can WE handle the basics?  My hope was to be able to get 
comfortable (somewhat) with 10 before tackling Jaws.

On 1/11/2018 7:12 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
> Hi Nick,
> 
> Well, all I can do is recommend that you read the following page carefully 
> and I believe you will conclude that the upgrade is free until Jan. 16, and, 
> after then, you'll be paying the usual cost of the version of Windows 10 you 
> require:
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rod
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: January 11, 2018 3:23 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Cc: Nick Sarames <nicksara...@msn.com>
> Subject: Windows-10 Upgrade Question
> 
> This is sort of one of those questions where, Mommy says no,  but I'm
> hoping Daddy will say yes.  I clicked on the Windows-10 upgrade, and I'm
> given the choice to run or save.  I'd like to be able to save the file
> until after the free upgrade has passed (when a 3rd party (my sighted
> friend) can assist me.  A rep from Microsoft disability says my request
> cannot be accomplished.  Is this true?  Is there any other way around
> it?  And while I'm at it, how much will this upgrade cost after the
> deadline?  Please Daddy?  Thanks in advance.
> 
> Nick
> ___
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Windows-10 Upgrade Question

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

This is sort of one of those questions where, Mommy says no,  but I'm 
hoping Daddy will say yes.  I clicked on the Windows-10 upgrade, and I'm 
given the choice to run or save.  I'd like to be able to save the file 
until after the free upgrade has passed (when a 3rd party (my sighted 
friend) can assist me.  A rep from Microsoft disability says my request 
cannot be accomplished.  Is this true?  Is there any other way around 
it?  And while I'm at it, how much will this upgrade cost after the 
deadline?  Please Daddy?  Thanks in advance.

Nick
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Re: ITunes

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

So what was the album?

On 1/5/2018 12:25 PM, Tom Fairhurst via Talk wrote:
> Sorry about the previous message. I got my hands on the wrong keys for the 
> subject line. I was frustrated about ITunes not downloading an album I’d 
> purchased. I later discovered that the purchase did notgo through. I tried it 
> today, andit worked.
> 
> From: Tom Fairhurst
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 12:39 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: OTimes
> 
> O jave tje ;atest versopm pf OTimes pm Womdpws 8/ O cam
> t dpwm;pad tje ;ast a;bi, O [irchaed. I have bookmarked an Apple article on 
> this but it seems a bit fuzzy. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Re: New frustrations with TB, please help

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I probably don't do as much with TBird as you do, but if you can get to 
your inbox (for example), can't you ignore the filters option?

On 12/17/2017 4:35 AM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
> Well Nick, no problem finding my inbox, but the filter thing, as well as 
> this annoyance of not being able to close TD just will not go away. At 
> least there is that usual faithful remedy of the task manager. It seems 
> to work every time. Only wish I had a shortcut directly to the TB option 
> without having to wait for the manager to open .
> 
> 
> The only other problem approaching this one was when I was being told 
> that messages were being considered as junk. That time, if I remember 
> correctly, just pressing F8 got rid of that one. Something to do with 
> the preview pane, or whatever that is called. Sorry, I'm half asleep, 
> and my meds seem to be having their effect .
> 
> 
> On 12/17/2017 2:58 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>> I've had this occasionally.  Usually I tab around (frantically) until I
>> can find my inbox.
>>
>> On 12/16/2017 5:41 PM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
>>> Hey listers,
>>>
>>>
>>> Since spending four days in the hospital after dropping the DTBM on my
>>> foot, something has started to happen with my Thunderbird that is not
>>> helping with my recuperation.
>>>
>>>
>>> For some reason, I keep getting a box that seems to ask me if I wish to
>>> filter some messages with the key commands of ctrl-shift-k, but it is in
>>> an edit box that I cannot move around in, and for some reason, maybe
>>> related to this, it is making it impossible to close TB as a Window
>>> using F4. Therefore, I have to use the task manager to shut down TB.
>>>
>>>
>>> Could it be that TB has been updated since I've been away, and now
>>> presenting me with these new issues?
>>>
>>>
>>> Well,my foot is really starting to hurt again, so I'd better sign out
>>> and hope that one of you can help me out of this rather irritating mess.
>>>
>>>
>>> Any help will surely be greatly appreciated,
>>>
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>> ___
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Re: New frustrations with TB, please help

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I've had this occasionally.  Usually I tab around (frantically) until I 
can find my inbox.

On 12/16/2017 5:41 PM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
> Hey listers,
> 
> 
> Since spending four days in the hospital after dropping the DTBM on my 
> foot, something has started to happen with my Thunderbird that is not 
> helping with my recuperation.
> 
> 
> For some reason, I keep getting a box that seems to ask me if I wish to 
> filter some messages with the key commands of ctrl-shift-k, but it is in 
> an edit box that I cannot move around in, and for some reason, maybe 
> related to this, it is making it impossible to close TB as a Window 
> using F4. Therefore, I have to use the task manager to shut down TB.
> 
> 
> Could it be that TB has been updated since I've been away, and now 
> presenting me with these new issues?
> 
> 
> Well,my foot is really starting to hurt again, so I'd better sign out 
> and hope that one of you can help me out of this rather irritating mess.
> 
> 
> Any help will surely be greatly appreciated,
> 
> 
> Larry
> 
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Re: Is there a start up sound for sound for JAWS or a way to enable one?

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Does Windows have a startup sound?  My Windows-7 had one, but 8.4 hasn't 
made a sound.  Maybe I have to change a setting - I just haven't 
bothered because of WE.

On 12/12/2017 6:50 PM, brice Mijares via Talk wrote:
> That's a good question! Both Window Eyes and NVDA have a start up and 
> unloading sound.
> 
> On 12/12/2017 3:15 PM, Ashley Breger via Talk wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone hi guys,
>> I was just wondering does anybody know if there is anyway to enable a 
>> start up sound for jaws?
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>> Thanks,
>> Ashley
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Re: Help with JAWS spell checking in Outlook and Word

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Clarification question, I mainly write in my e-mail program Thunderbird. 
  And when I spell check,, I first press f-7.  What is the derivation of 
that hot key?

On 11/29/2017 2:45 PM, Rebecca Lineberger via Talk wrote:
> I know W-E gave us its own way to check spelling, but I've used the alt-f7
> method for spellchecking for years in Window-Eyes.  Just to play with JAWS
> and my Office 2010, I tried the old f7 way.  JAWS does a nice job, saying
> and then spelling the incorrect word, then doing the same for what it
> suggests as the preferred replacement.  The only thing I had to remember is
> that enter is for ignore, not change.  LOL. If you don't like the suggested
> replacement, tab once to a list box with all the suggestions.  You can arrow
> down through them and JAWS says and spells each.  If you continue to tab
> through, you will find a grammar box which you can uncheck if you choose.
> JAWS continues to find misspellings automatically without your having to
> press f7 again.
>   My hands just automatically press alt-f7.  If you want to check the
> spelling of the suggestion, which JAWS does not give you with this method,
> just press insert numpad 5 twice.
> For any other misspellings you'll need to press the alt-f7 again each time
> as you do with the alt-apostrophe in W-E. .
> Rebecca
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+drlineberger=embarqmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 1:59 PM
> To: Van Lant, Robin via Talk
> Cc: Tom Kingston
> Subject: Re: Help with JAWS spell checking in Outlook and Word
> 
> Hmm. I haven't had any problems with Window-Eyes. And I'm running the latest
> fall creators update. That's why I have little incentive to figure out JAWS.
> Actually I've spent more time with NVDA. I don't think either are on par
> with Window-Eyes. But if I can get the freebie working I'll go that route.
> Good luck,
> Tom
> 
> 
> On 11/29/2017 1:35 PM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote:
>> Thanks, Tom.  Not as friendly on the fingers and it seems to automatically
> expand the context menu before I even know what word is highlighted, but I'm
> glad to have an option to play with.   Yeah, I've been pokey about the
> migration process, but I keep having weird silencing issues in Window Eyes,
> so I'm really trying to get myself onto JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+robin_van_lant=key@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>> Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 11:13 AM
>> To: Van Lant, Robin via Talk
>> Cc: Tom Kingston
>> Subject: Re: Help with JAWS spell checking in Outlook and Word
>>
>> Robin,
>> I don't know about JAWS as I've barely gotten beyond wrestling with it for
> a bit here and there. But Word itself has a keyboard shortcut to jump to the
> next spelling or grammatical error: Alt+F7.
>> Here's a link to a page with all the keyboard shortcuts.
>> http://www.keyxl.com/aaa2cd7/445/Microsoft-Word-2010-keyboard-shortcut
>> s.htm
>> Hth,
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On 11/29/2017 12:40 PM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote:
>>> All,
>>> I'm struggling with the transition to JAWS as it relates to spell
> checking a Word document or Outlook email.  I absolutely loved the Window
> Eyes feature allowing me to move to each  error with Alt semicolon and
> apostrophe.   I really did not get the hang of navigating the Spell checking
> dialog efficiently.   So, to those who have made the transition, can you
> guide me as to the best way to spell check?  I'm in Office 2010.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Robin Van Lant | Sr. Program Manager
>>> Strategy & Performance Management | Key Equipment Finance
>>> 720-304-1060 | robin_van_l...@key.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential
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> information.
>>>
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>>> future e-mail offers for products or services from Key send an e-mail
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Re: typing passwords with jaws

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I mentioned this before, but at least on one occasion, I was typing my 
password in a field, and WE read aloud the password I was typing, which 
told me I was in the wrong field.  Generally WE will tell you which edit 
box you are in, but not always.

On 11/18/2017 1:44 PM, Marvin Commerford via Talk wrote:
> Sorry to be a bit of a crab but a novel idea might be to practice typing 
> until you get good enough to type passwords accurately.  I've been 
> working with blind students for over 10 years.  They know from the 
> beginning that they need to get good enough with the keyboard to 
> correctly type passwords.  They do the work to get better which pays off 
> for them in doing all of their computer work.  The copy and paste method 
> of enterring passwords is interesting. However, if people have enough 
> skills to do that they may be close to being able to type them in.
> 
> On 11/18/2017 6:32 AM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote:
>> I have a friend that has a file with all of her passwords and other 
>> log-in information.  She copies hers from that list in order to make 
>> sure it is correct.
>>
>> Carol
>>
>> On 11/18/2017 1:31 AM, net bat via Talk wrote:
>>> and why do home bodies need this?
>>> there's no one here to see the passwords. so why can't i turn the 
>>> stars off like window eyes can?
>>> i only have 3 tries before i am locked out of my accounts.
>>> and some of them will only  unlock my accounts by sending me a unlock 
>>> code by mail. not by email. so i could be locked out for weeks.
>>> i have to use window eyes for passwords. or type them in note pad and 
>>> copy and paste them into the password fields.
>>> we should have the choice to speak or not speak the keys you press in 
>>> the password fields.
>>> my requests to f/s just falls on deaf ears.
>>> they have not responded to any of my jaws questions to date.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Dennis Long via Talk
>>> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 9:35 PM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>>> Cc: Dennis Long
>>> Subject: RE: typing passwords with jaws
>>>
>>> It's done this way for security.  Think about it a sighted person 
>>> couldn't
>>> see it either it would appear as stars or dots.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk 
>>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
>>> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 8:02 PM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: Nick Sarames
>>> Subject: Re: typing passwords with jaws
>>>
>>> WE does the same thing, and as much as I don't like not knowing what 
>>> I am
>>> typing, I like the security of knowing I am typing my password in the
>>> correct field.
>>>
>>> On 11/17/2017 5:56 PM, BK via Talk wrote:
>>>> Hello, jaws says star, star, star, when I type in a password. Does
>>>> anyone know how to change this so that jaws will say what is actually
>>>> being typed. I like to hear the actual characters, so I know I am
>>>> typing the password correctly. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Butch
>>>>
>>> ___
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Re: typing passwords with jaws

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

A good sighted typest doesn't look at the keyboard when he/she types. 
Why should it be any different for us?

On 11/18/2017 1:31 AM, net bat via Talk wrote:
> and why do home bodies need this?
> there's no one here to see the passwords. so why can't i turn the stars 
> off like window eyes can?
> i only have 3 tries before i am locked out of my accounts.
> and some of them will only  unlock my accounts by sending me a unlock 
> code by mail. not by email. so i could be locked out for weeks.
> i have to use window eyes for passwords. or type them in note pad and 
> copy and paste them into the password fields.
> we should have the choice to speak or not speak the keys you press in 
> the password fields.
> my requests to f/s just falls on deaf ears.
> they have not responded to any of my jaws questions to date.
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Dennis Long via Talk
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 9:35 PM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Cc: Dennis Long
> Subject: RE: typing passwords with jaws
> 
> It's done this way for security.  Think about it a sighted person couldn't
> see it either it would appear as stars or dots.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 8:02 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Nick Sarames
> Subject: Re: typing passwords with jaws
> 
> WE does the same thing, and as much as I don't like not knowing what I am
> typing, I like the security of knowing I am typing my password in the
> correct field.
> 
> On 11/17/2017 5:56 PM, BK via Talk wrote:
>> Hello, jaws says star, star, star, when I type in a password. Does
>> anyone know how to change this so that jaws will say what is actually
>> being typed. I like to hear the actual characters, so I know I am
>> typing the password correctly. Thanks.
>>
>> Butch
>>
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Re: typing passwords with jaws

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

WE does the same thing, and as much as I don't like not knowing what I 
am typing, I like the security of knowing I am typing my password in the 
correct field.

On 11/17/2017 5:56 PM, BK via Talk wrote:
> Hello, jaws says star, star, star, when I type in a password. Does
> anyone know how to change this so that jaws will say what is actually
> being typed. I like to hear the actual characters, so I know I am typing
> the password correctly. Thanks.
> 
> Butch
> 
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Re: Firefox Save Mode

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I'm not sure if I am implimenting the work-around correctly, but I'm 
getting an error message saying something like:

access denied - you will need to provide administrator permission to 
hange these settings.  Click continue to complete this operation.

On 10/26/2017 2:08 AM, David via Talk wrote:
> Debby,
> 
> You are right. Shortly after my posting the workaround, yet another
> version (56.01) came out from Mozilla, and swoopsy, there all
> accessibility flew out the windows. The recent version of Firefox, in
> very short and sharp words, is USELESS for WinEyes users.
> 
> 
> I personally ended up going for the business version, as someone kindly
> suggested. So far, have had positive experience with it, and find it
> promissing to not having to fool around with new who-knows-why updates,
> every six weeks or so.
> 
> 
> If you seemingly have got Firefox up running in its safe mode, maybe I
> have a tiny bit of helpful info for you. Instead of having to manually
> remembering to start Firefox with the added Command line parameter, it
> should be possible to have it do so by hitting a hotkey. Please note, I
> have not tested this myself, so take it for whatever it might be worth
> to you.
> 
> 
> 1. Go to your Desktop.
> 
> 2. Focus the Firefox Icon.
> 
> 3. Hit the Shift-F10, alternatively, the App-key; and choose Properties.
> 
> 4. Go down to the editbox where it asks for the program name, and insert
> the -safe-mode parameter after the name, separated with a space. Please
> note the dashes in the parameter.
> 
> 5. While you are in this dialog, you might want to tab over to the
> hotkey part, and define yourself a quick-key for loading Firefox. For
> instance, I have defined Alt-Ctrl-F, which is quick and smooth way of
> loading the software from anywhere.
> 
> 6. Tab to OK, and hit Enter.
> 
> 
> If everything goes well, you now should have Firefox start up in safe
> mode, every time you hit your new hotkey.
> 
> 
> Plese, may you be ware, in cases where you press Enter on a link in an
> Email, Firefox will load directly. In such cases, if Firefox is not yet
> loaded, it will load in normal mode. You hence might want to always keep
> a Firefox window, loaded in Safe Mode, open on your screen. Even a blank
> page should do.
> 
> 
> Again, should you find the workarounds fail, perhaps it might be time to
> give the business edition a spin.
> 
> 
> For the records, I installed it directly on top of my version 56, and it
> came up with all my history and favorites (bookmarks) ready to go.
> Should you want to make sure, you might follow the instructions Rod
> posted a few days ago, for backing up your bookmarks from firefox, prior
> to running the installation. It all was done in less than five minutes
> here, and it is good to have an otherwise stabil and nice browser back
> in business.
> 
> 
> I do take the opportunity to apologize to all, for any inconveniences my
> initially posted workarounds might have caused. They were clearly
> working at the moment, but Mozilla wanted it the other way around. Even
> sighted people complain, and yet, the updates are forced on you, even
> with the updating feature turned off in the Firefox settings. Nothing
> more to do. And yet, so far the business eedition might be the reliable
> way to go for the next few months. That is, if you don't want to switch
> to another screen reader, hoping that Mozilla won't break all support
> for assisistive technology altoghether in some version to come.
> 
> 
> On 10/26/2017 5:18 AM, Debby Franson via Talk wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> I tried the Firefox safe mode, and it worked. I could browse the page
>> as expected and I could get to the menus. I will need to start FF this
>> way, because, when I closed the browser and launched it again, I was
>> back to the ding with the silent treatment and no menus.
>>
>> Debby
>>
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Re: Firefox query

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

What doesn't work any longer?  Control/n still works for me.

On 10/22/2017 4:50 AM, net bat via Talk wrote:
> it doesn't work anymore
> 
> -Original Message----- From: Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2017 1:16 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Nick Sarames
> Subject: Re: Firefox query
> 
> Did you try control-shift-a?  Actually, if you've been reading the
> threads of the last few days, you're gonna have to open another window
> in Firefox, control-n.
> 
> On 10/22/2017 2:29 AM, Jesse delMuro via Talk wrote:
>> Hi guys.
>>
>>
>>     So, trying to utilize Firefox much like IE but in many cases, if not
>> all, the webpages load but MSAA (or browse mode) isn't on
>> automatically.  Never seen _that before, so how to get it too work or
>> turn it on using Mozilla Firefox?  Any help much appreciated.
>>
>> Jesse
>>
>>
>> On 10/21/2017 9:52 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
>>> firefox 52 is the last version that will fully work with window eyes.
>>> there is still the 52.4 for businesses esr
>>> and it upgrades once per year. around march of next year.
>>> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/all/
>>> -Original Message- From: Debby Franson via Talk
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 6:59 PM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: Debby Franson
>>> Subject: Firefox Updated and I'm Unable to Navigate
>>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I didn't have this problem until today when Firefox updated. I can
>>> only tab
>>> and Shift-Tab through the links with MSAA turned off. The arrow keys do
>>> nothing, and, if MSAA is turned on, I only get a ding and no navigation
>>> works. I have never seen this behavior before today.
>>>
>>> I'm using Windows 7 32 bit with Window-Eyes 9.5.4.0.
>>>
>>> Debby
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>
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Re: Firefox query

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Did you try control-shift-a?  Actually, if you've been reading the 
threads of the last few days, you're gonna have to open another window 
in Firefox, control-n.

On 10/22/2017 2:29 AM, Jesse delMuro via Talk wrote:
> Hi guys.
> 
> 
>     So, trying to utilize Firefox much like IE but in many cases, if not 
> all, the webpages load but MSAA (or browse mode) isn't on 
> automatically.  Never seen _that before, so how to get it too work or 
> turn it on using Mozilla Firefox?  Any help much appreciated.
> 
> Jesse
> 
> 
> On 10/21/2017 9:52 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
>> firefox 52 is the last version that will fully work with window eyes.
>> there is still the 52.4 for businesses esr
>> and it upgrades once per year. around march of next year.
>> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/all/
>> -Original Message- From: Debby Franson via Talk
>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 6:59 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Debby Franson
>> Subject: Firefox Updated and I'm Unable to Navigate
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I didn't have this problem until today when Firefox updated. I can 
>> only tab
>> and Shift-Tab through the links with MSAA turned off. The arrow keys do
>> nothing, and, if MSAA is turned on, I only get a ding and no navigation
>> works. I have never seen this behavior before today.
>>
>> I'm using Windows 7 32 bit with Window-Eyes 9.5.4.0.
>>
>> Debby
>>
>>
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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

While I believe what you say, why are there so many Jaws users, even 
some here, who swear by Jaws?  They can't all be ignorant, can they? 
What I am guessing is happening is, each screen reader has its issues 
and some websites work better on WE, and other websites work better on 
Jaws.  Of course, that is a separate issue from other issues involving 
the overall stability of each reader.

On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
> Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
> Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
> usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
> when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
> the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
> Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
> am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
> product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
> trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
> charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
> because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
> Narrator do.
> 
> So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
> view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
> be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
> thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.
> 
> Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
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Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

The consensus seems to be that WE, overall, is better.  I have yet to 
use Jaws, but the more I read here, the more I realize that we each have 
different systems and needs.  So while you can't seem to pay your credit 
card, others can.  And while you can do certain things, others can't.  I 
think I'll just craw into a hole.

On 10/10/2017 1:33 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:
> you might as well junk it now.
> 2018 release will be in about 2 weeks.
> f s has had the same 27 years as window eyes had  and it still doesn't 
> work as good.
> i can't even pay my credit card with it. a web page that is suppose to 
> be jaws compatible doesn't work.
> window eyes works fine.
> money talks. if gwmicro was the one that had all the money it would of 
> been f s that would be out of business now.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Bob Tinney via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:01 AM
> To: Chuck Adkins via Talk
> Cc: Bob Tinney
> Subject: Re: Window-eyes and Jaws, thoughts
> 
> Chuck,
> 
> 
> I agree with you!  My s m as were carried over from W E, but when I have
> to pay for an upgrade, Jaws will disappear from my computer.
> 
> Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net
> 
> On 10/10/2017 8:33 AM, Chuck Adkins via Talk wrote:
>> Well, I've been using Jaws for a while now and I must confess the
>> Window-eyes was the much better product both in speed, browsing,
>> usability, layout, and so much more. Like on the Ohio Lottery Website,
>> when reading the pick 5 Jaws will not scroll down continuously down
>> the page like NVDA, Narrator, and Window-eyes do. I also find
>> Window-eyes synthesizer support was much better. I am not whining, I
>> am just bemoaning the fact that a company got by with trashing a
>> product completely, borrowing or using nothing from the product they
>> trashed and acting like Window-eyes never existed, not to mention
>> charging so much for the product. Don't give me that similar stuff,
>> because I've found webpages where Jaws just doesn't work and NVDA and
>> Narrator do.
>>
>> So why won't I just shut up? I will, just wanted to point out in my
>> view what I've realized, and hopefully NVDA, Narrator and others will
>> be able to say Thank You to VFO for pushing us to a day when a 2
>> thousand dollar screen reader is no longer need.
>>
>> Thanks for reading, I'm now shutting up.
>> ___
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> 
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Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Actually the work-around still works on my system, stay tuned.

On 10/9/2017 3:00 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
> Hi Nick,
> 
> Yes, the workaround no longer helps.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rod
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: October 9, 2017 1:32 PM
> To: Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Cc: Nick Sarames <nicksara...@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
> 
> Did you try the work-around (control-n)?
> 
> On 10/9/2017 1:29 PM, Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk wrote:
>> Maybe that's what happened, but I'm not sure of that.
>> A new 56.01 update was available when I checked this morning. I am going
>> to reboot and try again, but my first finding with this new minor update
>> is that browse mode is no longer available anywhere in Firefox. You can
>> still read the menus and can tab to items, but are not even offered the
>> possibility of opening browse mode with Window-Eyes. The plot thickens!
>>
>>
>>
>> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
>> http://lras.home.sprynet.com
>> -Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
>> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:24 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Rod Hutton
>> Subject: RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> I can certainly confirm that your workaround, namely, to open another
>> tab, wherein Window-Eyes works as before.
>> My guess is that, on startup, the set file is not associated with the
>> browser window, but, rather, with the Firefox application window.
>> I've run into this problem before, when, all of a sudden, focus got lost
>> and stuck in the application window, since this is all I heard when I
>> read the title bar.
>> This hadn't happened for some time, and we'll see what happens now that
>> I can begin testing it again.
>> Thanks so much for your effort in diagnosing this problem, and we'll
>> report back our experiences.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Rod
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>> Behalf Of David via Talk
>> Sent: October 8, 2017 8:31 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; Lloyd
>> Rasmussen <l...@sprynet.com>
>> Cc: David <trailerda...@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
>>
>> Seems this is going to be the kind of never-ending story.
>>
>>
>> This morning, I had to restart my computer for some reason. After
>> rebooting, all the sudden I do see the same behavior in Firefox, as
>> reported by others. You can turn off Browse mode, and tab around the
>> website. You can reach all the menus. But with browse mode turned on,
>> there is absolutely no luck in having WinEyes read anything to you.
>>
>>
>> Now, i would not let this throw me off. I have been experimenting quite
>> a bit here now, and here is at least some kind of a workaround. Wonder
>> if some of you - who have trouble with Firefox 56 - please could report
>> back if you see the same behavior.
>>
>>
>> 1. Open Firefox.
>>
>> 2. Open any website of your choice, by typing in the address in the
>> address bar, and hitting enter, just like you have always done.
>>
>> 3. The site comes up, but you cannot navigate it with WinEyes.
>>
>> 4. Try turn off Browse mode, and now use tab. Do you hear the different
>> links and controls spoken?
>>
>>
>> Then the workaround.
>>
>> 1. with all firefox windows closed, open Firefox, and direct it to any
>> website you might like.
>>
>> 2. Hit Ctrl-N, and a new session of Firefox will open in a separate window.
>>
>> 3. In this new window, open any website you desire - even the very same
>> one you opened in the first window.
>>
>> 3. The website in the new ((or second) window, can be navigated just
>> like ever before.
>>
>> 4. Go back to the first window you had opened with Firefox, and close it
>> with F4.
>>
>> 5. From here, keep navigating Firefox as much as you like, in the newest
>> window. You even can open as many windows and tabs as you want, and
>> WinEyes seems to work just fine.
>>
>>
>> The ones of you, who have been able to work with Firefox 56 so far, have
>> you rebooted your computer after updating to this version? If not, I am
>> starting to wondering if ther

Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Thanks, well, I pretty much only use Firefox for Youtube, and that is 
with Browse Mode turned off, although lately Youtube has been working 
better in IE.

On 10/9/2017 3:00 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
> Hi Nick,
> 
> Yes, the workaround no longer helps.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rod
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: October 9, 2017 1:32 PM
> To: Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Cc: Nick Sarames <nicksara...@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
> 
> Did you try the work-around (control-n)?
> 
> On 10/9/2017 1:29 PM, Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk wrote:
>> Maybe that's what happened, but I'm not sure of that.
>> A new 56.01 update was available when I checked this morning. I am going
>> to reboot and try again, but my first finding with this new minor update
>> is that browse mode is no longer available anywhere in Firefox. You can
>> still read the menus and can tab to items, but are not even offered the
>> possibility of opening browse mode with Window-Eyes. The plot thickens!
>>
>>
>>
>> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
>> http://lras.home.sprynet.com
>> -Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
>> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:24 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Rod Hutton
>> Subject: RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> I can certainly confirm that your workaround, namely, to open another
>> tab, wherein Window-Eyes works as before.
>> My guess is that, on startup, the set file is not associated with the
>> browser window, but, rather, with the Firefox application window.
>> I've run into this problem before, when, all of a sudden, focus got lost
>> and stuck in the application window, since this is all I heard when I
>> read the title bar.
>> This hadn't happened for some time, and we'll see what happens now that
>> I can begin testing it again.
>> Thanks so much for your effort in diagnosing this problem, and we'll
>> report back our experiences.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Rod
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>> Behalf Of David via Talk
>> Sent: October 8, 2017 8:31 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; Lloyd
>> Rasmussen <l...@sprynet.com>
>> Cc: David <trailerda...@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
>>
>> Seems this is going to be the kind of never-ending story.
>>
>>
>> This morning, I had to restart my computer for some reason. After
>> rebooting, all the sudden I do see the same behavior in Firefox, as
>> reported by others. You can turn off Browse mode, and tab around the
>> website. You can reach all the menus. But with browse mode turned on,
>> there is absolutely no luck in having WinEyes read anything to you.
>>
>>
>> Now, i would not let this throw me off. I have been experimenting quite
>> a bit here now, and here is at least some kind of a workaround. Wonder
>> if some of you - who have trouble with Firefox 56 - please could report
>> back if you see the same behavior.
>>
>>
>> 1. Open Firefox.
>>
>> 2. Open any website of your choice, by typing in the address in the
>> address bar, and hitting enter, just like you have always done.
>>
>> 3. The site comes up, but you cannot navigate it with WinEyes.
>>
>> 4. Try turn off Browse mode, and now use tab. Do you hear the different
>> links and controls spoken?
>>
>>
>> Then the workaround.
>>
>> 1. with all firefox windows closed, open Firefox, and direct it to any
>> website you might like.
>>
>> 2. Hit Ctrl-N, and a new session of Firefox will open in a separate window.
>>
>> 3. In this new window, open any website you desire - even the very same
>> one you opened in the first window.
>>
>> 3. The website in the new ((or second) window, can be navigated just
>> like ever before.
>>
>> 4. Go back to the first window you had opened with Firefox, and close it
>> with F4.
>>
>> 5. From here, keep navigating Firefox as much as you like, in the newest
>> window. You even can open as many windows and tabs as you want, and
>> WinEyes seems to work just fine.
>>
>>
>> The ones of you, who have been able to work with Firefox 56 so far, have
>> you rebooted 

Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Did you try the work-around (control-n)?

On 10/9/2017 1:29 PM, Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk wrote:
> Maybe that's what happened, but I'm not sure of that.
> A new 56.01 update was available when I checked this morning. I am going 
> to reboot and try again, but my first finding with this new minor update 
> is that browse mode is no longer available anywhere in Firefox. You can 
> still read the menus and can tab to items, but are not even offered the 
> possibility of opening browse mode with Window-Eyes. The plot thickens!
> 
> 
> 
> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
> http://lras.home.sprynet.com
> -Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:24 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Rod Hutton
> Subject: RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> I can certainly confirm that your workaround, namely, to open another 
> tab, wherein Window-Eyes works as before.
> My guess is that, on startup, the set file is not associated with the 
> browser window, but, rather, with the Firefox application window.
> I've run into this problem before, when, all of a sudden, focus got lost 
> and stuck in the application window, since this is all I heard when I 
> read the title bar.
> This hadn't happened for some time, and we'll see what happens now that 
> I can begin testing it again.
> Thanks so much for your effort in diagnosing this problem, and we'll 
> report back our experiences.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Rod
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
> Behalf Of David via Talk
> Sent: October 8, 2017 8:31 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Lloyd 
> Rasmussen 
> Cc: David 
> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
> 
> Seems this is going to be the kind of never-ending story.
> 
> 
> This morning, I had to restart my computer for some reason. After
> rebooting, all the sudden I do see the same behavior in Firefox, as
> reported by others. You can turn off Browse mode, and tab around the
> website. You can reach all the menus. But with browse mode turned on,
> there is absolutely no luck in having WinEyes read anything to you.
> 
> 
> Now, i would not let this throw me off. I have been experimenting quite
> a bit here now, and here is at least some kind of a workaround. Wonder
> if some of you - who have trouble with Firefox 56 - please could report
> back if you see the same behavior.
> 
> 
> 1. Open Firefox.
> 
> 2. Open any website of your choice, by typing in the address in the
> address bar, and hitting enter, just like you have always done.
> 
> 3. The site comes up, but you cannot navigate it with WinEyes.
> 
> 4. Try turn off Browse mode, and now use tab. Do you hear the different
> links and controls spoken?
> 
> 
> Then the workaround.
> 
> 1. with all firefox windows closed, open Firefox, and direct it to any
> website you might like.
> 
> 2. Hit Ctrl-N, and a new session of Firefox will open in a separate window.
> 
> 3. In this new window, open any website you desire - even the very same
> one you opened in the first window.
> 
> 3. The website in the new ((or second) window, can be navigated just
> like ever before.
> 
> 4. Go back to the first window you had opened with Firefox, and close it
> with F4.
> 
> 5. From here, keep navigating Firefox as much as you like, in the newest
> window. You even can open as many windows and tabs as you want, and
> WinEyes seems to work just fine.
> 
> 
> The ones of you, who have been able to work with Firefox 56 so far, have
> you rebooted your computer after updating to this version? If not, I am
> starting to wondering if there could be something going on.
> 
> 
> Why I had to reboot my computer this morning, was because I had started
> Jaws, and it reported that an update for version 18.04 was available.
> After updating, it requested the computer rebooted.
> 
> 
> Funny thing is, that yesterday my WinEyes worked perfectly well with
> Firefox 56. This morning, updating Jaws and then rebooting the computer,
> my WinEyes starts to have trouble with Firefox.
> 
> 
> Sure, it all would be coincidents, wouldn't it? And of course, we could
> go on asking if anyone who are having no trouble with WinEyes in
> Firefox, also do not have Jaws installed, or even have not updated their
> Jaws version. i would have been willing to uninstall Jaws, just to make
> sure there is no cross-over issues, but would that not cause me to use
> an extra Jaws installation when reinstalling it on the computer? Or,
> does Jaws recognize it has already been installed here before, and hence
> abstain from counting the new reinstallation against my three available
> installations under the license? I really would have been willing to
> say, there would be no way for Jaws to interfere, all the time only
> WinEyes is loaded on the computer. But still, it all makes me wonder a bit.

Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Yeah, your work-around seems to work!

On 10/8/2017 8:30 AM, David via Talk wrote:
> Seems this is going to be the kind of never-ending story.
> 
> 
> This morning, I had to restart my computer for some reason. After
> rebooting, all the sudden I do see the same behavior in Firefox, as
> reported by others. You can turn off Browse mode, and tab around the
> website. You can reach all the menus. But with browse mode turned on,
> there is absolutely no luck in having WinEyes read anything to you.
> 
> 
> Now, i would not let this throw me off. I have been experimenting quite
> a bit here now, and here is at least some kind of a workaround. Wonder
> if some of you - who have trouble with Firefox 56 - please could report
> back if you see the same behavior.
> 
> 
> 1. Open Firefox.
> 
> 2. Open any website of your choice, by typing in the address in the
> address bar, and hitting enter, just like you have always done.
> 
> 3. The site comes up, but you cannot navigate it with WinEyes.
> 
> 4. Try turn off Browse mode, and now use tab. Do you hear the different
> links and controls spoken?
> 
> 
> Then the workaround.
> 
> 1. with all firefox windows closed, open Firefox, and direct it to any
> website you might like.
> 
> 2. Hit Ctrl-N, and a new session of Firefox will open in a separate window.
> 
> 3. In this new window, open any website you desire - even the very same
> one you opened in the first window.
> 
> 3. The website in the new ((or second) window, can be navigated just
> like ever before.
> 
> 4. Go back to the first window you had opened with Firefox, and close it
> with F4.
> 
> 5. From here, keep navigating Firefox as much as you like, in the newest
> window. You even can open as many windows and tabs as you want, and
> WinEyes seems to work just fine.
> 
> 
> The ones of you, who have been able to work with Firefox 56 so far, have
> you rebooted your computer after updating to this version? If not, I am
> starting to wondering if there could be something going on.
> 
> 
> Why I had to reboot my computer this morning, was because I had started
> Jaws, and it reported that an update for version 18.04 was available.
> After updating, it requested the computer rebooted.
> 
> 
> Funny thing is, that yesterday my WinEyes worked perfectly well with
> Firefox 56. This morning, updating Jaws and then rebooting the computer,
> my WinEyes starts to have trouble with Firefox.
> 
> 
> Sure, it all would be coincidents, wouldn't it? And of course, we could
> go on asking if anyone who are having no trouble with WinEyes in
> Firefox, also do not have Jaws installed, or even have not updated their
> Jaws version. i would have been willing to uninstall Jaws, just to make
> sure there is no cross-over issues, but would that not cause me to use
> an extra Jaws installation when reinstalling it on the computer? Or,
> does Jaws recognize it has already been installed here before, and hence
> abstain from counting the new reinstallation against my three available
> installations under the license? I really would have been willing to
> say, there would be no way for Jaws to interfere, all the time only
> WinEyes is loaded on the computer. But still, it all makes me wonder a bit.
> 
> 
> OK, I could live with the extra hazzle, of always opening a Firefox
> session, and then hitting Ctrl-n, and start my browsing from the new
> session. The thing that now puzzles me, is why things work in the second
> session, but never in the first, of Firefox. Could that be due to some
> bug in the browser, or is the second session opening with different
> settings - deep down in the hundreds of settings of the browser? Wonder
> if a report to Mozilla would bring some clarification here, but not sure
> where or how to submit any bug report to the Mozilla team.
> 
> 
> To spin a little bit further on the whole issue, I did try Firefox in
> its dedicated safe mode, and there I was able to navigate with WinEyes.
> it of course might all be due to some kind of add-on, that troubles
> WinEyes in the newest Firefox version. But that all will have to be
> determined through intensified further investigation.
> 
> 
> Till now, these are my findings, and I hope others can contribute with
> further findings, confirmations and ideas for solutions. Somehow seems
> we have to trace exactly what causes the issue, before we can start
> determining if WinEyes and Firefox 56+ can ever be made to work
> hand-in-hand.
> 
> 
> All just for your information.
> 
> 
> On 10/7/2017 7:02 PM, Evan Reese via Talk wrote:
>> That was me, using WE 8.4 on a Windows 7 laptop with Firefox 56.0 32 bit.
>> I just had it open and went to three different sites, including the
>> BARD site. It works the same as always for me.
>> Evan
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk
>> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 9:32 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen
>> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
>>
>> I am puzzled that 

Re: Firefox 56.0 does not work with W E

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I generally use Firefox for navagating Youtube.  What I've noticed is WE 
only works in Firefox if you turn browse mode off.

On 10/5/2017 11:03 AM, Bob Tinney via Talk wrote:
> I guess that I'm gradually being forced to Jaws.
> 
> 
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Re: Crossing over to the dark side was Re: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Sometimes Linkedin has outdated information.  It's the responsibility of 
the account holder (if he/she chooses) to update his/her resume.

On 10/2/2017 10:31 PM, Brenda via Talk wrote:
> So far I have not hadFirefox update automatically. It occasionally asks 
> me to update and I say remind me later.
> 
> Just in case, I hate to admit it but, I'm using jaws.  Once I get more 
> comfortable with jaws I'll update to FF56.
> 
> It is breaking my heart not to use Window-eyes. today I've mostely used 
> jaws.  I did switch to W-e to see if I was missing something on a 
> website, but things were the same with W-e and jaws which means I must 
> be doing ok with jaws. I miss the sound of the tip of the day upon 
> start-up and the piano scale when exiting window-eyes.
> 
> Just for fun I did a search for Doug Geoffray and found an entry on 
> Linkedin. I could only access basic info (and once a day at that) 
> because I'm not a member.  It says he is still at VFO in compliance and 
> is working to make jaws compliant with other programs or something like 
> that.  I think someone said he announced on another list that he was 
> leaving vfo, but maybe he was just leaving an area of contact with 
> customers.  Maybe that is why jaws seems to work better lately.  It 
> would be nice to know doug was somewhere helping to make jaws as good as 
> Window-Eyes.
> 
> I think this FF issue will force alot of us to learn jaws - I need FF so 
> I'm sadly forced into it.
> 
> Brenda
> On 10/2/2017 12:33 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>> If your using windows7 and are willing to jump through hoops IE use 
>> internet
>> explorer reinstall fire fox everytime it updates etc you will be fine 
>> for a
>> few years.  Do I think in 3 years you will be able to use WE on 
>> win10?  NO.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk 
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 7:12 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Tony C
>> Subject: Re: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate
>>
>> Yep! I've noticed that everytime Windows updates that WE develops more 
>> and
>> more glitches. It's becoming less and less useable.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Dennis Long via Talk
>> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 8:54 PM
>> To: mattc...@verizon.net ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>> Cc: Dennis Long
>> Subject: RE: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate
>>
>> Unfortunately I don't think you can do much.  This is what will happen 
>> more
>> and more with WE.  Jaws updated to fix  a firefox release.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk 
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Matthew Chao via Talk
>> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 9:37 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Matthew Chao
>> Subject: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate
>>
>> Hi, any Window-Eyes Users Still Out There.  I just updated Firefox, 
>> and when
>> I try to navigate with MSAA mode on, I just get a ding where before I 
>> could
>> go up and down the page.  How can I change it so it works?  What
>> happened?--Matthew Chao.
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>> author
>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dennisl1982%40 
>>
>> gmail.com.
>> For subscription options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> List archives can be found at
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>> author
>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tch828%40media 
>>
>> combb.net.
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>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> List archives can be found at
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>> author
>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dennisl1982%40 
>>
>> gmail.com.
>> For subscription options, visit
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>>
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>> author 

Re: inaccessible website

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Thanks, I never use the "J, K, L" keys (I'll have to try them) ; I just 
turn Browse Mode off and then use the arrow keys if I'm on the Next 
button.  What's been happening is the setup will be there for a few 
minutes (mute, next, pause etc.).  Then all of a sudden, those buttons 
are replaced by other stuff (like this video).

On 9/21/2017 3:53 PM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
> Nick,
> 
> YouTube is working fine here in IE, FF, and Chrome. I just toggle browse 
> mode off and the J, K, and L keys work as rewind, pause/play, and fast 
> forward, respectively.
> 
> Hth,
> Tom
> 
> 
> On 9/21/2017 5:22 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>> Suddenly, Youtube has become less accessible than before.  Generally, I
>> find Youtube and WE work together better if I use Firefox, but this
>> evening, I have problems with moving ahead and backward in the stream.
>> Anyway, if anyone has suggestions, feel free to e-mail me off list.
>>
>> nicksara...@msn.com
>>
>> I'm going to try rechecking my Youtube settings.
>>
>> On 9/15/2017 5:17 PM, Juan Hernandez via Talk wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I am working on a project for work.  I need some examples of horrible
>>> accessible on a website.
>>> If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Juan Hernandez
>>> juanhernande...@gmail.com
>>> 619-750-9431 (M) |  858-777-3311 (F)
>>> My WebSite | Twitter | FaceBook | LinkedIn
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk
>>> [mailto:talk-bounces+juanhernandez98=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk
>>> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 1:32 PM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>>> Cc: Josh Kennedy <joshuakennedy...@comcast.net>
>>> Subject: Re: low cost jaws it does exist
>>>
>>> you can get the low cost jaws by calling 1-800-444-4443 extension 
>>> 1101 and
>>> asking to buy jaws through the jaws for fixed income program.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/15/2017 3:29 PM, mr. Chikodinaka Nickarandidum Oguledo via Talk 
>>> wrote:
>>>> how do I get it?
>>>> my wife is giving birth for the first time  hour first child
>>>>
>>>> On 9/15/17, lynn white via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
>>>>> That's clever.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/15/2017 12:32 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>>>>> Actually we don't know that - you could be a VFO bot, or perhaps you
>>>>>> might want another life?  Maybe she should've written:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "get another life!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/15/2017 10:47 AM, Josh Kennedy via Talk wrote:
>>>>>>> Don't you think that statement of get a life is contradicting 
>>>>>>> itself?
>>>>>>> How can I get a life when I already have a life? And I already 
>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>> life because I am alive. And you know I am alive because I am 
>>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>>> here typing this message. If I did not get or have a life 
>>>>>>> already, then
>>>>>>> I could not be sitting here and typing this message to you, now 
>>>>>>> could
>>> I?
>>>>>>> Because I would not be alive in the first place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/15/2017 12:48 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
>>>>>>>> Get a life and hope for the bonus of compassion and empathy for
>>>>>>>> others. You'll be much happier.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/14/2017 6:33 PM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ...get a job and stop bothering people for hand outs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 14, 2017 9:35 AM, "Josh Kennedy via Talk"
>>>>>>>>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> hello
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just talked to Hal from VFO. He called me and left me a 
>>>>>>>>>> message.
>>>>>>>>>

Re: inaccessible website

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Suddenly, Youtube has become less accessible than before.  Generally, I 
find Youtube and WE work together better if I use Firefox, but this 
evening, I have problems with moving ahead and backward in the stream. 
Anyway, if anyone has suggestions, feel free to e-mail me off list.

nicksara...@msn.com

I'm going to try rechecking my Youtube settings.

On 9/15/2017 5:17 PM, Juan Hernandez via Talk wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am working on a project for work.  I need some examples of horrible
> accessible on a website.
> If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Juan Hernandez
> juanhernande...@gmail.com
> 619-750-9431 (M) |  858-777-3311 (F)
> My WebSite | Twitter | FaceBook | LinkedIn
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+juanhernandez98=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 1:32 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Cc: Josh Kennedy <joshuakennedy...@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: low cost jaws it does exist
> 
> you can get the low cost jaws by calling 1-800-444-4443 extension 1101 and
> asking to buy jaws through the jaws for fixed income program.
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/15/2017 3:29 PM, mr. Chikodinaka Nickarandidum Oguledo via Talk wrote:
>> how do I get it?
>> my wife is giving birth for the first time  hour first child
>>
>> On 9/15/17, lynn white via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
>>> That's clever.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/15/2017 12:32 PM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>>>> Actually we don't know that - you could be a VFO bot, or perhaps you
>>>> might want another life?  Maybe she should've written:
>>>>
>>>> "get another life!"
>>>>
>>>> On 9/15/2017 10:47 AM, Josh Kennedy via Talk wrote:
>>>>> Don't you think that statement of get a life is contradicting itself?
>>>>> How can I get a life when I already have a life? And I already have a
>>>>> life because I am alive. And you know I am alive because I am sitting
>>>>> here typing this message. If I did not get or have a life already, then
>>>>> I could not be sitting here and typing this message to you, now could
> I?
>>>>> Because I would not be alive in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/15/2017 12:48 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
>>>>>> Get a life and hope for the bonus of compassion and empathy for
>>>>>> others. You'll be much happier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/14/2017 6:33 PM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:
>>>>>>> ...get a job and stop bothering people for hand outs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 14, 2017 9:35 AM, "Josh Kennedy via Talk"
>>>>>>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hello
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just talked to Hal from VFO. He called me and left me a message.
>>>>>>>> Anyway
>>>>>>>> he told me about a program that VFO already has in place for people
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> need low-cost jaws. He told me this is a special program and for
> some
>>>>>>>> reason its not advertised on their website but he said he would make
>>>>>>>> a note
>>>>>>>> to at least get information about it posted up there. So here is
>>>>>>>> what he
>>>>>>>> said. For people who cannot afford jaws, you call in and through
>>>>>>>> this jaws
>>>>>>>> affordability program for $125 you get jaws home version with 0
>>>>>>>> smas. But
>>>>>>>> if you pay $225 you get jaws home version with two smas. When I am
>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>> with Christmas and stuff I'm gunna take advantage of this for sure!
>>>>>>>> I also
>>>>>>>> suggested to hal about a program to activate jaws on a monthly
>>>>>>>> basis, $225
>>>>>>>> comes down to $12 per month. He said he would make a note of that
>>>>>>>> also. So
>>>>>>>> yes folks low cost jaws does exist. get more info by calling:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>

Re: low cost jaws it does exist

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Actually we don't know that - you could be a VFO bot, or perhaps you 
might want another life?  Maybe she should've written:

"get another life!"

On 9/15/2017 10:47 AM, Josh Kennedy via Talk wrote:
> Don't you think that statement of get a life is contradicting itself? 
> How can I get a life when I already have a life? And I already have a 
> life because I am alive. And you know I am alive because I am sitting 
> here typing this message. If I did not get or have a life already, then 
> I could not be sitting here and typing this message to you, now could I? 
> Because I would not be alive in the first place.
> 
> 
> On 9/15/2017 12:48 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
>> Get a life and hope for the bonus of compassion and empathy for 
>> others. You'll be much happier.
>>
>> On 9/14/2017 6:33 PM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:
>>> ...get a job and stop bothering people for hand outs.
>>>
>>> On Sep 14, 2017 9:35 AM, "Josh Kennedy via Talk" 
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 hello


 I just talked to Hal from VFO. He called me and left me a message. 
 Anyway
 he told me about a program that VFO already has in place for people who
 need low-cost jaws. He told me this is a special program and for some
 reason its not advertised on their website but he said he would make 
 a note
 to at least get information about it posted up there. So here is 
 what he
 said. For people who cannot afford jaws, you call in and through 
 this jaws
 affordability program for $125 you get jaws home version with 0 
 smas. But
 if you pay $225 you get jaws home version with two smas. When I am done
 with Christmas and stuff I'm gunna take advantage of this for sure! 
 I also
 suggested to hal about a program to activate jaws on a monthly 
 basis, $225
 comes down to $12 per month. He said he would make a note of that 
 also. So
 yes folks low cost jaws does exist. get more info by calling:

 1-800-444-4443 extension 1101


 This news is very exciting! in a year or so my son will probably be 
 doing
 more advances stuff with microsoft office and Jaws will probably be 
 needed
 because it works good with that office suite. I am glad that low 
 cost jaws
 really exists.


 Josh


 -- 
 sent with mozilla thunderbird

 -- 
 sent with mozilla thunderbird

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>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
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>>>  
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>> ___
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit 
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Re: low cost jaws it does exist

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

And it's irrelevant because the policy is in place.

The world is not against me.

On 9/14/2017 7:00 PM, lynn white via Talk wrote:
> That's just plain cruel.  I'm sorry but that just shows no heart 
> whatsoever.
> 
> 
> I happen to be fortunate enough that I can buy products.  So, my comment 
> is not meant to be self serving.
> 
> 
> I know that there are people within our community with their hands out. 
> But, telling someone to get a job and stop bothering people for handouts 
> is just insensitive and errogant.
> 
> 
> On 9/14/2017 5:33 PM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:
>> ...get a job and stop bothering people for hand outs.
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2017 9:35 AM, "Josh Kennedy via Talk" 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> hello
>>>
>>>
>>> I just talked to Hal from VFO. He called me and left me a message. 
>>> Anyway
>>> he told me about a program that VFO already has in place for people who
>>> need low-cost jaws. He told me this is a special program and for some
>>> reason its not advertised on their website but he said he would make 
>>> a note
>>> to at least get information about it posted up there. So here is what he
>>> said. For people who cannot afford jaws, you call in and through this 
>>> jaws
>>> affordability program for $125 you get jaws home version with 0 smas. 
>>> But
>>> if you pay $225 you get jaws home version with two smas. When I am done
>>> with Christmas and stuff I'm gunna take advantage of this for sure! I 
>>> also
>>> suggested to hal about a program to activate jaws on a monthly basis, 
>>> $225
>>> comes down to $12 per month. He said he would make a note of that 
>>> also. So
>>> yes folks low cost jaws does exist. get more info by calling:
>>>
>>> 1-800-444-4443 extension 1101
>>>
>>>
>>> This news is very exciting! in a year or so my son will probably be 
>>> doing
>>> more advances stuff with microsoft office and Jaws will probably be 
>>> needed
>>> because it works good with that office suite. I am glad that low cost 
>>> jaws
>>> really exists.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> sent with mozilla thunderbird
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> sent with mozilla thunderbird
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
>>> For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/o
>>> ptions.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jadedangelpromises%40gmail.com.
>>> For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/l
>>> istinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
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>>> rivate.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>>
>> ___
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lynnwhite360%40radioforlife.info.
>>  
>>
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> 
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> 
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>  
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Re: low cost jaws it does exist

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Well, at least you're being constructive.

On 9/14/2017 6:33 PM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:
> ...get a job and stop bothering people for hand outs.
> 
> On Sep 14, 2017 9:35 AM, "Josh Kennedy via Talk" 
> wrote:
> 
>> hello
>>
>>
>> I just talked to Hal from VFO. He called me and left me a message. Anyway
>> he told me about a program that VFO already has in place for people who
>> need low-cost jaws. He told me this is a special program and for some
>> reason its not advertised on their website but he said he would make a note
>> to at least get information about it posted up there. So here is what he
>> said. For people who cannot afford jaws, you call in and through this jaws
>> affordability program for $125 you get jaws home version with 0 smas. But
>> if you pay $225 you get jaws home version with two smas. When I am done
>> with Christmas and stuff I'm gunna take advantage of this for sure! I also
>> suggested to hal about a program to activate jaws on a monthly basis, $225
>> comes down to $12 per month. He said he would make a note of that also. So
>> yes folks low cost jaws does exist. get more info by calling:
>>
>> 1-800-444-4443 extension 1101
>>
>>
>> This news is very exciting! in a year or so my son will probably be doing
>> more advances stuff with microsoft office and Jaws will probably be needed
>> because it works good with that office suite. I am glad that low cost jaws
>> really exists.
>>
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>> --
>> sent with mozilla thunderbird
>>
>> --
>> sent with mozilla thunderbird
>>
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
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>> ptions.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jadedangelpromises%40gmail.com.
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>> rivate.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>
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Re: window-eyes open source?

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

But it's more than that, these agencies have a responsibility (to their 
clients) to ensure that they have a stable product to work with, backed 
up by a financially solvent company.

On 9/12/2017 6:51 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
> But these charities and agencyes, etc. that you talk about refusing to 
> pay for jaws would have to be knowledgeable enough to know that they 
> have this alternative, and interested enough to learn about it, rather 
> than just easily going with the status quo.  Pam.
> 
> -Original Message- From: David via Talk
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 3:09 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: David
> Subject: Re: window-eyes open source?
> 
> You know, I too am tempted to believe, NVDA will take over some screen
> reader users. For one thing, as NVDA becomes yet more powerful, and
> widely known, it might happen that paying authorities or cherities, will
> refuse to pay hundreds (or in translated version thousands) of dollars
> for Jaws. And due to the dominance VFO currently has on the asistive
> market, they can raise the price as they desire.
> 
> No. NVDA is far from good enough for a professional run, in a work
> position where effeciency counts. It does come short when comes to
> certain pieces of software, and it takes some modification and
> scripting, to have it up running. Jaws is, like it or not, a
> full-fledged screen reader, in many cases working somehow right out of
> the box. Sure, I did say somehow. Not even WinEyes did always work right
> out of the box; or why did we get the app feature of WinEyes, do you think?
> 
> But for the general home user, who wants to write and read emails, who
> has already invested in a scanner and OCR software, and who needs to
> perform general activities on the net (paying bills, checking the weekly
> offer of their favorite store, and lookup something on Yahoo or
> Google)... For those users, I am ready to say NVDA already will be close
> to good enough. I don't really see too much that Jaws performs, or does
> better, than NVDA on that front.
> 
> 
> VFO bought AISquared, and in effect GWMicro. Since the agreement of the
> merge is not publicly known, we do not know how that all came around, or
> what was the thought behind. Who initiated and so forth.
> 
> <    IF
> 
> the intension was to grow bigger, they really managed; for the time
> being. Was the idea of it all to control the market? Well, somehow maybe
> they have currently managed. But there is something about being the
> biggest and only one in town. You also will have to deal with ALL the
> queries. And, though the world map looks far more International today
> than two decades ago, many customers are facing ecconomic issues that
> might affect their chances of buying a wildly priced product. Somehow,
> we could think this to be some of the consequences of the WEForOffice
> program, which did open up for even the less bolstered wallet to provide
> the needy one with a full-fledged screen reader. Now that this program
> eventually will be obsolete, NVDA might be the choice -even the ONLY
> choice - for many a private user. Or, they might - if their activity
> does not rely solely on Windows - leave the whole computer world
> together, and go mobile.
> 
> 
> The somehow dominant position VFO has taken at the moment, might hence
> not be the fact we see tomorrow. That will all depend much on what
> happens in the electronic world all generally. A decade ago, prior to
> the first IPhone, everyone would have claimed that Windows was here to
> stay. Then came the first IPhone, then the IPad, and today many a user
> does not even own a computer any longer. Recently, I did see a
> relatively up-to-date Android device, straight from the store shelf,
> with all warrantees intact, advertised well under 100 dollars. Turn it
> on, hold two fingers anywhere on the screen, and your device is fully
> loaded with a screen reader, in less than five minutes. Just HOW well
> will Jaws face that figure? Buy yourself a computer for anything from
> 300 to 1500 dollars, invest another 1200 dollars of software, add on
> 1200 for the screen reader; spend an hour or two in installing,
> licensing and updating your brand new pet. Guess you see my point. You
> do all of this, should you need to. But for the user who doesn't need to?
> 
> 
> Further, keep in mind, that many who turns blind today, already are
> quite familiar with Android and Phone/Ipad products. Being the kind of
> equipment many - even school kids - now aday are acquainted with, they
> might not even have the skills needed for starting out with a computer.
> Turning blind today, you don't have one or two years to spend in a
> special institution for the blind, hoping to learn something
> old-fashioned, then imagining yourself getting back into some kind of a
> daily living. You simply HAVE TO get going more or less right away. And
> since you already own the mobile device, and all you need is to activate
> 

Re: window-eyes open source?

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Just because something dominates a market, doesn't mean it is a monopoly.

On 9/10/2017 11:51 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
> The problem is that FS has too much of a monopoly in the paid market.
> Monopolies are illegal.
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 8:51 PM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Cc: Dennis Long
> Subject: RE: window-eyes open source?
> 
> It is far from being as good as jaws!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Loy via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 6:55 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Loy
> Subject: Re: window-eyes open source?
> 
> NVDA is not far from being as good as JAWS and  I can see it happening that
> people will download the free program instead of paying hundreds of dollars
> for a very similar program.
>- Original Message -
>From: Josh Kennedy via Talk
>To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>Cc: Josh Kennedy
>Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 4:23 PM
>Subject: Re: window-eyes open source?
> 
> 
>Why couldn't it happen?
> 
> 
> 
>On 9/10/2017 3:47 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>> I don't see that happening.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf
> Of Josh Kennedy via Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:08 PM
>> To: David; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Josh Kennedy
>> Subject: Re: window-eyes open source?
>>
>> I wonder what VFO would do if NVDA starting eating into their business
> profits? If free open source NVDA would become way more popular than jaws
> and would still be open source?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/10/2017 2:54 AM, David wrote:
>>> Matter of fact, this question was raised a couple of days after the
>>> anouncement of the discontinued development of WinEyes. I will get
>>> back to what Doug said back then. First of all, let's take a quick look
> at facts.
>>>
>>> Had it been as easy as WinEyes would have been a stand-alone software,
>>> with all its coding done 'in-house', things would have been pretty
> easy.
>>> And had it been that Doug and Dan had been the only ones to develop
>>> the software, they could have decided whatever they wanted.
>>>
>>> Things are not that easy!
>>> First of all, what doug pointed out, was that to get the better
>>> functionality of WinEyes, they had to reach certain agreements with -
>>> for instance Adobe - to get access to third-party software, kind of
>>> behind the scene. If they open-sourced the code, now these techniques
>>> might be disclosed to the public, threatening the products of the
>>> third-party manufacturer. In turn, this of course would lead to
>>> people, not working on assistive technology at all, to get hold of the
>>> key for the backdoor of - say Adobe's reader - and use it for unwanted
>>> activity, or even malware development.
>>>
>>> Secondly, WinEyes had a feature of offering you loads of apps. Many of
>>> them are open-sourced, but WinEyes holds a chance for the app
>>> developer to cryptize his code, for protecting against peekers. This
>>> was a benefit, for instance when the app has to access a server, and
>>> maybe even use some login credencials, to perform the activity.
>>> Without me knowing for sure, we could think of an app like
>>> WeatherOrNot, which has to access a server, retrieve weather details,
> and process them for you.
>>> Now if the developer has reached a given agreement with the
>>> weather-server provider, that his app will gain free access, under the
>>> condition of not disclosing the login credencials, we are in trouble
>>> in open-sourcing WinEyes. By doing so, we would disclose the
>>> cryptizing code, opening up for people to break the cryptized code of
>>> the app, get to the credencials, and then misuse it.
>>>
>>> Part of the agreement GW made with their app developers, by providing
>>> the cryptizing feature, was to keep the app code an enclosed program.
>>> They might get into legal issues, should they disclose the cryptizer,
>>> thereby lay bare the very code of the app developer, who in turn might
>>> sue GW for breaking the agreement. This is kind of backed up, by a
>>> message Doug posted several years back, when someone claimed they had
>>> broken the cryptizer.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, it has been confirmed from Aaron, that some of the apps
>>> directly from GW, like AppGet, do hold credencials for accessing the
>>> servers of GW. It is unlikely that they want to have these credencials
>>> open-sourced. In particular so, if you remember the attack someone
> 

Re: window-eyes open source?

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

How well has Linux done in terms of penetrating the market?

On 9/10/2017 4:23 PM, Josh Kennedy via Talk wrote:
> Why couldn't it happen?
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/10/2017 3:47 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>> I don't see that happening.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk 
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:08 PM
>> To: David; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Josh Kennedy
>> Subject: Re: window-eyes open source?
>>
>> I wonder what VFO would do if NVDA starting eating into their business 
>> profits? If free open source NVDA would become way more popular than 
>> jaws and would still be open source?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/10/2017 2:54 AM, David wrote:
>>> Matter of fact, this question was raised a couple of days after the
>>> anouncement of the discontinued development of WinEyes. I will get
>>> back to what Doug said back then. First of all, let's take a quick 
>>> look at facts.
>>>
>>> Had it been as easy as WinEyes would have been a stand-alone software,
>>> with all its coding done 'in-house', things would have been pretty easy.
>>> And had it been that Doug and Dan had been the only ones to develop
>>> the software, they could have decided whatever they wanted.
>>>
>>> Things are not that easy!
>>> First of all, what doug pointed out, was that to get the better
>>> functionality of WinEyes, they had to reach certain agreements with -
>>> for instance Adobe - to get access to third-party software, kind of
>>> behind the scene. If they open-sourced the code, now these techniques
>>> might be disclosed to the public, threatening the products of the
>>> third-party manufacturer. In turn, this of course would lead to
>>> people, not working on assistive technology at all, to get hold of the
>>> key for the backdoor of - say Adobe's reader - and use it for unwanted
>>> activity, or even malware development.
>>>
>>> Secondly, WinEyes had a feature of offering you loads of apps. Many of
>>> them are open-sourced, but WinEyes holds a chance for the app
>>> developer to cryptize his code, for protecting against peekers. This
>>> was a benefit, for instance when the app has to access a server, and
>>> maybe even use some login credencials, to perform the activity.
>>> Without me knowing for sure, we could think of an app like
>>> WeatherOrNot, which has to access a server, retrieve weather details, 
>>> and process them for you.
>>> Now if the developer has reached a given agreement with the
>>> weather-server provider, that his app will gain free access, under the
>>> condition of not disclosing the login credencials, we are in trouble
>>> in open-sourcing WinEyes. By doing so, we would disclose the
>>> cryptizing code, opening up for people to break the cryptized code of
>>> the app, get to the credencials, and then misuse it.
>>>
>>> Part of the agreement GW made with their app developers, by providing
>>> the cryptizing feature, was to keep the app code an enclosed program.
>>> They might get into legal issues, should they disclose the cryptizer,
>>> thereby lay bare the very code of the app developer, who in turn might
>>> sue GW for breaking the agreement. This is kind of backed up, by a
>>> message Doug posted several years back, when someone claimed they had
>>> broken the cryptizer.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, it has been confirmed from Aaron, that some of the apps
>>> directly from GW, like AppGet, do hold credencials for accessing the
>>> servers of GW. It is unlikely that they want to have these credencials
>>> open-sourced. In particular so, if you remember the attack someone
>>> gave them a few years back, when the code of the GWToolkit was hacked,
>>> and gave many a WinEyes user quite a shock the morning they turned on
>>> their computer, and got a threatening message on their screen.
>>>
>>> Mind you, GW got into a cooperation with Microsoft, when they
>>> introduced the WEForOffice program. Even here, they told that this
>>> agreement would put them in specially close relationship with the
>>> ingeneers of Microsoft. Who knows what closures might be involved
>>> there, and which would be broken, had WE got open-sourced.
>>>
>>> Now let's move back to the answer Doug gave back in the spring this
>>> year. The above is a bit of an elaboration of what he said. You will
>>> find his answer in the archives, but in very short terms:
>>>    NOPE! WinEyes code CANNNOT go open-source; If for no other
>>> reasons, due to the infringement of third-party agreements involved.
>>>
>>> All of this, actually leads me to once again raising the very question:
>>>    Does VFO even have access to the WinEyes code?
>>> VFO might have bought AISquared, thereby also the former GWMicro. But
>>> they might not have bought the copyright of the source-code. And
>>> perhaps that was never intended either. Seems all they wanted, was to
>>> rid the market of any competition, period. Who knows, maybe Doug
>>> 

Re: window-eyes open source?

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

That's a lot to ask of a non-profit making institution which likely does 
not have the budget to market its product.

On 9/10/2017 1:07 PM, Josh Kennedy via Talk wrote:
> I wonder what VFO would do if NVDA starting eating into their business 
> profits? If free open source NVDA would become way more popular than 
> jaws and would still be open source?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/10/2017 2:54 AM, David wrote:
>> Matter of fact, this question was raised a couple of days after the
>> anouncement of the discontinued development of WinEyes. I will get back
>> to what Doug said back then. First of all, let's take a quick look at 
>> facts.
>>
>> Had it been as easy as WinEyes would have been a stand-alone software,
>> with all its coding done 'in-house', things would have been pretty easy.
>> And had it been that Doug and Dan had been the only ones to develop the
>> software, they could have decided whatever they wanted.
>>
>> Things are not that easy!
>> First of all, what doug pointed out, was that to get the better
>> functionality of WinEyes, they had to reach certain agreements with -
>> for instance Adobe - to get access to third-party software, kind of
>> behind the scene. If they open-sourced the code, now these techniques
>> might be disclosed to the public, threatening the products of the
>> third-party manufacturer. In turn, this of course would lead to people,
>> not working on assistive technology at all, to get hold of the key for
>> the backdoor of - say Adobe's reader - and use it for unwanted activity,
>> or even malware development.
>>
>> Secondly, WinEyes had a feature of offering you loads of apps. Many of
>> them are open-sourced, but WinEyes holds a chance for the app developer
>> to cryptize his code, for protecting against peekers. This was a
>> benefit, for instance when the app has to access a server, and maybe
>> even use some login credencials, to perform the activity. Without me
>> knowing for sure, we could think of an app like WeatherOrNot, which has
>> to access a server, retrieve weather details, and process them for you.
>> Now if the developer has reached a given agreement with the
>> weather-server provider, that his app will gain free access, under the
>> condition of not disclosing the login credencials, we are in trouble in
>> open-sourcing WinEyes. By doing so, we would disclose the cryptizing
>> code, opening up for people to break the cryptized code of the app, get
>> to the credencials, and then misuse it.
>>
>> Part of the agreement GW made with their app developers, by providing
>> the cryptizing feature, was to keep the app code an enclosed program.
>> They might get into legal issues, should they disclose the cryptizer,
>> thereby lay bare the very code of the app developer, who in turn might
>> sue GW for breaking the agreement. This is kind of backed up, by a
>> message Doug posted several years back, when someone claimed they had
>> broken the cryptizer.
>>
>> Furthermore, it has been confirmed from Aaron, that some of the apps
>> directly from GW, like AppGet, do hold credencials for accessing the
>> servers of GW. It is unlikely that they want to have these credencials
>> open-sourced. In particular so, if you remember the attack someone gave
>> them a few years back, when the code of the GWToolkit was hacked, and
>> gave many a WinEyes user quite a shock the morning they turned on their
>> computer, and got a threatening message on their screen.
>>
>> Mind you, GW got into a cooperation with Microsoft, when they introduced
>> the WEForOffice program. Even here, they told that this agreement would
>> put them in specially close relationship with the ingeneers of
>> Microsoft. Who knows what closures might be involved there, and which
>> would be broken, had WE got open-sourced.
>>
>> Now let's move back to the answer Doug gave back in the spring this
>> year. The above is a bit of an elaboration of what he said. You will
>> find his answer in the archives, but in very short terms:
>>       NOPE! WinEyes code CANNNOT go open-source; If for no other reasons,
>> due to the infringement of third-party agreements involved.
>>
>> All of this, actually leads me to once again raising the very question:
>>       Does VFO even have access to the WinEyes code?
>> VFO might have bought AISquared, thereby also the former GWMicro. But
>> they might not have bought the copyright of the source-code. And perhaps
>> that was never intended either. Seems all they wanted, was to rid the
>> market of any competition, period. Who knows, maybe Doug simply hit the
>> Delete-key, the last thing before he handed in the key for the Office
>> front-door?
>>
>> And to assume that VFO's tech personel would bother to plow the
>> thousands of lines of coding for WinEyes, in hope of hitting the
>> technique used to perform a simple task, is out of range. It would take
>> hours, days or even weeks, to figure why things have been done the way
>> they were. Or, to find the part of a signed contract, that 

Re: question about re installing wineyes

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Why?

On 9/9/2017 9:11 PM, Josh Kennedy via Talk wrote:
> when stuff is no longer supported it should really be open source 
> otherwise it will be lost to time.
> 
> On 9/9/2017 12:47 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
>> Hi Russ and all,
>>
>> As memory serves, you do have to enter the correct name when you 
>> install Window-Eyes.
>> Regardless whether I'm right about that point, as much as this thread 
>> seems to entertain the idea of sharing retail copies of Window-Eyes, I 
>> think you'll run into copyright infringement if you do this.
>>
>> Hth,
>>
>> Rod
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk 
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Russ Kiehne via Talk
>> Sent: September 9, 2017 9:23 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
>> Cc: Russ Kiehne 
>> Subject: Re: question about re installing wineyes
>>
>> It's my understanding it doesn't matter what name you put in, it's the
>> serial number that matters.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Carol and Roger via Talk
>> Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 10:38 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Carol and Roger
>> Subject: Re: question about re installing wineyes
>>
>> Only sort of.  The serial number is assigned to a specific person, so
>> the name and any other information that is asked for during installation
>> would need to be the same for both people. So, if you gave me your copy
>> and did not tell me your information, your copy, on my PC would still be
>> a demo copy.
>>
>>
>> On 9/8/2017 12:44 PM, brice Mijares via Talk wrote:
>>> If I sent someone a copy of my last installation copy, that person would
>>> still need an activation code or it would go into demo mode. Isn't this
>>> correct?
>>>
>>> On 9/8/2017 8:57 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk]
>>>
>>>   wrote:
 Hi Loy,

 Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I was referring to why you thought it would be
 okay for someone to use someone else's copy of WE simply because it was
 no longer being developed.
 I would think it is still the property of VFO, and, therefore,
 infringement of copyright to let someone else use it.

 Thanks,

 Rod

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk
 [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
 Behalf Of Loy via Talk
 Sent: September 8, 2017 11:37 AM
 To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
 Cc: Loy 
 Subject: Re: question about re installing wineyes

 If you are in the US, you never had to activate WE. I think in some
 countries you had to have a dongle.
     - Original Message -
     From: Rod Hutton via Talk
     To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
     Cc: Rod Hutton
     Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 11:01 AM
     Subject: RE: question about re installing wineyes


     Hi Loy,

     If you truly know this, then, that's fine.
     I don't feel as certain about this as you seem to be.
     If you can explain this a bit, I'd appreciate it.

     Best,

     Rod

     -Original Message-
     From: Talk
 [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
 Behalf Of Loy via Talk
     Sent: September 8, 2017 10:40 AM
     To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
     Cc: Loy 
     Subject: Re: question about re installing wineyes

     There has never been an online activation. I doubt that you can 
 get a
 downloadable copy from VFO now, but if you can get a copy from someone
 else then you could install it. Being it is no longer being sold or
 developed then using some one else's copy would not matter.
   - Original Message -
   From: Micallef Michael at FITA via Talk
   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
   Cc: Micallef Michael at FITA
   Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 10:24 AM
   Subject: RE: question about re installing wineyes


   And then after installation of WE how about the online 
 activation?

   -Original Message-
   From: Talk
 [mailto:talk-bounces+michael.micallef=gov...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
 Behalf Of aad leeflang via Talk
   Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 12:07 PM
   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
   Cc: aad leeflang
   Subject: Re: question about re installing wineyes

   ok thanks
   i used window eyes 9.4 on my old pc but i did not get a cd newer
 than 9.0.
   i downloadee most versions.
   but how do i get a more acurate version though?
   or is there a way to copy the files from my old pc to my new pc.
   i guess not.
   aad
   On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:46:16 +
   Rod Hutton 

Re: Window-eyes & Reading Attachments

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Well, I'm not sure exactly.  I guess I'm wondering how to get past all 
those umlauts.  I assume the umlauts have to do with the inability to 
read what is actually in the attachment.

On 9/6/2017 5:30 PM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote:
> Is your question about all the umlauts and such or just about opening and 
> reading an Excel file?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+robin_van_lant=key@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 3:04 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Nick Sarames
> Subject: Window-eyes & Reading Attachments
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to clutter this list, so if someone is able to assist me off 
> list, I would appreciate that.
> 
> nicksara...@msn.com
> 
> I have an excel file (I think it's an excel file) which contains the rosters 
> in my Fantasy Baseball league.  I have never really learned how to read this 
> sort of attachment, but would like to find out if it is readable (lots of 
> umlauts and circumflexes), thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> I don't want to clutter this list, so if someone is able to assist me off 
> list, I would appreciate that.
> 
> nicksara...@msn.com
> 
> I have an excel file (I think it's an excel file) which contains the rosters 
> in my Fantasy Baseball league.  I have never really learned how to read this 
> sort of attachment, but would like to find out if it is readable (lots of 
> umlauts and circumflexes), thanks in advance.
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> Nick
> 
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Window-eyes & Reading Attachments

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I don't want to clutter this list, so if someone is able to assist me
off list, I would appreciate that.

nicksara...@msn.com

I have an excel file (I think it's an excel file) which contains the
rosters in my Fantasy Baseball league.  I have never really learned how
to read this sort of attachment, but would like to find out if it is
readable (lots of umlauts and circumflexes), thanks in advance.


I don't want to clutter this list, so if someone is able to assist me
off list, I would appreciate that.

nicksara...@msn.com

I have an excel file (I think it's an excel file) which contains the
rosters in my Fantasy Baseball league.  I have never really learned how
to read this sort of attachment, but would like to find out if it is
readable (lots of umlauts and circumflexes), thanks in advance.

Nick


Nick

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Re: App updates

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I think I would.

On 9/5/2017 5:52 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have updates for a couple of my apps, and even a new app or two, but VFO is 
> no longer accepting app submissions.
> Is anyone still interested enough in Window-Eyes to wish for someone to set 
> up an independent website for the purpose of app updates?
> I am trying to get a handle on who is still interested in receiving support 
> for Window-Eyes, and so please circulate this question to any Window-Eyes 
> users you know.
> 
> Sincere thanks,
> 
> Rod Hutton
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
> 
> For membership options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/nicksarames%40msn.com.
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> .
> 
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Re: contacting Doug.

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I am realmly unclear as to what VFO has done since the acquisition. 
Forget about what they did before the "mehrger (that's no longer 
relevant).  While it would be nice for VFO to continue with  production 
of WE, thus selling two "competing" screen readers, it's likely not a 
good business decision, and whether we like it or not, Jaws is more 
popular, which logistically makes more sense.

On 8/22/2017 2:07 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
> I agree.  VFo doesn't seem like a family, more like  an evil captain of a 
> pirate ship driving his slave crew to the bitter end.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy via 
> Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 2:04 PM
> To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> 
> Cc: Loy 
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
> like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of 
> WE and AISquared.
>- Original Message -
>From: Brenda via Talk
>To: Butch Bussen via Talk
>Cc: Brenda
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
>Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> 
>I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes.
>but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more
>control.
> 
>I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them
>Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was
>acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt
>selling out to VFO was in their best interest.
> 
>It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but
>refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too.
>Perhaps not.
> 
>True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but
>for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the
>term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm
>still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they
>are helping me deal with the situation.
> 
>I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well
>- I'll
>  move on eventually.
>Brenda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
>> Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had
>> a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was
>> this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>>
>>> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that
>>> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give
>>> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes
>>> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though
>>> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say
>>> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time
>>> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context
>>> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had
>>> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.
>>> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the
>>> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really
>>> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Dennis Long via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
>>> Cc: Dennis Long 
>>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.
>>> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Reeva Webb via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: Reeva Webb
>>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2,
>>> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
>>>
>>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never
>>> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls
>>> Of Jericho
>>>
>>> Reeva
>>>
>>> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via 

Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

According to whom?

On 8/21/2017 12:14 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
> Because their still needs to be improvements made to Window-Eyes, for 
> example, Edge support, it needs rewritten braille support, it needs 
> touchscreen support, it needs this and that.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Nick 
> Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:12 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Nick Sarames
> Subject: Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
> 
> Why would they?
> 
> On 8/20/2017 9:22 PM, Debby Franson via Talk wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> I wonder if VFO would ever sell the code.
>>
>> Debby
>>
>> At 12:37 PM 8/20/2017, Dennis Long via Talk wrote
>>> They won't give code up.  Come on think that through.  What company
>>> do you know that gives code that was a product that was sold for
>>> profit to just give it away.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Sky Mundell via Talk
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 1:19 PM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>>> Cc: Sky Mundell
>>> Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>>>
>>> They might give the Window-Eyes code up to a company like Humanware.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Dennis Long via Talk
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:04 AM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>>> Cc: Dennis Long
>>> Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure they own the code.  I say this for a few reasons 1
>>> they bought AI Squared and their products.  What are their products?
>>> WE is one of those.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Sky Mundell via Talk
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:46 PM
>>> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>>> Cc: Sky Mundell
>>> Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>>>
>>> I hope it does VFO didn't say anything about owning the Window-Eyes
>>> code or anything.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Olusegun
>>> -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:06 AM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
>>> Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
>>> Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>>>
>>> Tom, hopefully I'm not being overtly patronizing especially now that
>>> Window-Eyes is dead!!  That aside, Window-Eyes is an impressive
>>> screen reader whose ageless awareness outshines the sun!  Maybe--just
>>> maybe--someday, someone will UNSCRAMBLE the Window-Eyes code and PORT
>>> IT OVER to Android thus avoiding some crappy nonsense on the part of V F O.
>>> Should that happen, it's glorious days migh yet return again!
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Olusegun
>>> Denver, Colorado
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
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>>>
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Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Why would they?

On 8/20/2017 9:22 PM, Debby Franson via Talk wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I wonder if VFO would ever sell the code.
> 
> Debby
> 
> At 12:37 PM 8/20/2017, Dennis Long via Talk wrote
>> They won't give code up.  Come on think that through.  What company do 
>> you
>> know that gives code that was a product that was sold for profit to just
>> give it away.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Sky
>> Mundell via Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 1:19 PM
>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>> Cc: Sky Mundell
>> Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>>
>> They might give the Window-Eyes code up to a company like Humanware.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Dennis
>> Long via Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:04 AM
>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>> Cc: Dennis Long
>> Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>>
>> I'm pretty sure they own the code.  I say this for a few reasons 1 they
>> bought AI Squared and their products.  What are their products?  WE is 
>> one
>> of those.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Sky
>> Mundell via Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:46 PM
>> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>> Cc: Sky Mundell
>> Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>>
>> I hope it does VFO didn't say anything about owning the Window-Eyes 
>> code or
>> anything.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Olusegun
>> -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:06 AM
>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
>> Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
>> Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>>
>> Tom, hopefully I'm not being overtly patronizing especially now that
>> Window-Eyes is dead!!  That aside, Window-Eyes is an impressive screen
>> reader whose ageless awareness outshines the sun!  Maybe--just
>> maybe--someday, someone will UNSCRAMBLE the Window-Eyes code and PORT IT
>> OVER to Android thus avoiding some crappy nonsense on the part of V F O.
>> Should that happen, it's glorious days migh yet return again!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Olusegun
>> Denver, Colorado
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
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>> author
>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
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Re: contacting Doug.

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

The smaller one still has to agree to it.

On 8/19/2017 1:56 AM, michaels mail via Talk wrote:
> Ian very well said.
> The thing in life is the bigger  companys swallow up the smaller ones.
> cheers Michael.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Ian Westerland via Talk
> Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 8:04 AM
> To: Sky Mundell via Talk
> Cc: Ian Westerland
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> 
> Hello everyone.  I am still using Window-Eyes and the various Android
> apps in my smart phone but I think the 4 B's might apply here to FS,
> Jaws and screen reading access generally.
> 
> What are the 4 B's?
> 
> Big, Bigger, Biggest, Bust.
> In the longr term, some good will come of it all depending on who thinks
> about what is behind the need for top quality Screen reading access.
> There are some good things around.
> Just some thoughts I've had as I have observed and participated in some
> of this Accessibility change and development.
> 
> Ian Westerland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/19/2017 7:24 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
>> FS is getting desperate to hang onto their market at any cost. With 
>> JAWS having a monopoly in the paid market now, the price of JAWS might 
>> go up.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:42 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Reeva Webb
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> You can tell fs starting to get desperate. Fs 10 or 15 years ago 
>> wouldn't have given you discounts on anything. For most the out of the 
>> box accessibility, android, apple etc. will work for what they need to 
>> do. I'm curious though, is anyone from gw or pre merger ai2 still 
>> around.? Everyone i can think of seems to be gone.
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
>> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
>> Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2017 1:00 PM, "Joseph Norton via Talk" < 
>> talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, I think I see where you’re going with this.
>>>
>>> Are you saying things may be getting to a point where the cost of
>>> maintaining JAWS is greater than anyone wants to pay in terms of
>>> keeping the company going?
>>>
>>> I know it’s not because of Narrator being a superior product on the
>>> Windows side.  It is improving, but, not enough for many of us to get
>>> rid of JAWS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>
>>> From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:02 PM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Dennis Long'
>>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> Well, Michael, I once opined that the war Freedom Scientific could not
>>> win in the courts, was well fought and won outside; with its cohorts
>>> and coterie of friends, it succeeded in drowning the boat!
>>>
>>> The merger with AI Square came to me as a surprise; I didn't want to
>>> see it happen, but what voice do I have?
>>>
>>> I long for the day when all these adaptive equipment
>>> developers/manufacturers can TRADE THEIR STOCKS publicly; may be, just
>>> may be, they'll have better stability!  Now, we keep our eyes on the
>>> sparrow, Jaws may be taking its last breath as the venture capitalists
>>> will soon squash its fins!  Then it'll be Apple and Google to fill the
>>> void at least here in the United States!
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Olusegun
>>> Denver, Colorado
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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>>  

Window-eyes & Reading Attachments

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I don't want to clutter this list, so if someone is able to assist me
off list, I would appreciate that.

nicksara...@msn.com

I have an excel file (I think it's an excel file) which contains the
rosters in my Fantasy Baseball league.  I have never really learned how
to read this sort of attachment, but would like to find out if it is
readable (lots of umlauts and circumflexes), thanks in advance.

Nick
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Re: Taking the Plunge: Installing JFW18

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I am not sure how long I will continue to use WE, nor am I sure when I 
will download Jaws (I did take advantage of the VFO offer) but which is 
recommended, changing WE so that it doesn't automatically speak at 
startup, or not having Jaws talk at startup.  I guess my actual question 
is how do I change WE startup settings? My concern is, if I am 
downloading Jaws, and I turn off WE during the download,  I don't really 
want to rely on Jaws at startup, until I know how to use it.

On 7/29/2017 12:42 PM, Mike Pietruk via Talk wrote:
> I am ready to do my first install of JFW18 on a test pc which now has the
> latest and last version of WE.
> I realize that both screen readers cannot be run simultaneously, but it's
> ok to have both WE and JFW installed as long as only one is talking.
> Am I correct on that?
> 
> Secondly, I believe that I need to readjust WE's start-up settings so that
> the program never comes up talking.
> Once I do this and make certain that the setting change has taken place, I
> presume I can go, with WE talking to the run dialogue,
> type in the path to the program (saved as c:\jfw64.exe", shut down WE
> before hitting the return key, and the installation will begin with me
> receiving some form of speech when it's ready for me to do something.
> 
> Is my interpretation correct, or is there something that I have missed in
> what I need to do?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> And, yes, I have read the opening installment of
> Raul's tutorial but he doesn't mention any of what I have written but
> presume is the proper way to proceed.
> 
> 
> Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere,
> diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
> - Groucho Marx
> 
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Re: WE Remote assistance

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I didn't even know WE had remote assistance until maybe a month ago, sigh.

On 7/25/2017 5:25 PM, via Talk wrote:
> Hi:
> 
>   
> 
> Speaking of remote assistance, I assume that will also go away once the GW
> Micro servers go down.  Am I right about this?
> 
>   
> 
> Thanks!
> 
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Re: Good Bye

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

And what if you find NVDA does not meet your needs in the long run? 
After all, NVDA isn't made by God.  As I said, if you never use Jaws, 
you can not come up with a rational justification for not taking 
advantage of a free offer.

On 7/25/2017 12:01 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
> I already know how jaws works, that is why when the day finally comes, 
> I'll learn nvda.
> I've only been doing this stuff since 1983, but I guess 'm just not 
> smart.  Let me see, jaws is the screen reader built by God, thou shalt 
> not put other screen readers before me.
> 
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
> 
>> You would be smart to take the Jaws offer and start learning it so 
>> that when
>> that day comes you have an idea how Jaws works.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk 
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Kevin Huber via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 10:57 AM
>> To: Patricia Krinke; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Good Bye
>>
>> Hi:
>>
>> Let's face it.  The Window-eyes ship is sinking and VFO is offering us a
>> lifeboat, albeit for a limited time, so unless you want to go down 
>> with the
>> ship, or try to swim through the ocean, you'd better grab a spot in 
>> one of
>> the available lifeboats, (I.E. JAWS, NVDA, etc.
>> Not that i don't use Window-eyes myself, but I am using NVDA more and 
>> more
>> and when I get my JAWS license, I will probably use Window-eyes less and
>> less.  She was a good ship, but she's gone now.  Thanks to that big 
>> iceberg,
>> the VFO takeover.
>>
>> Kevin Huber
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/25/17, Patricia Krinke via Talk  wrote:
>>> I am with you!
>>>
>>>
>>> Trish
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Butch Bussen via Talk
>>> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 9:20 PM
>>> To: Pastor Gil Pries ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: t...@window-eyes.com
>>> Subject: Re: Good Bye
>>>
>>> I find it strange everyone is jumping ship.  Sure there may come a day
>>> when I have to go to something else like nv d a, but for now,
>>> window-eyes is working just fine.  It is fascinating how quickly
>>> people abandond something that is still working, because some day it may
>> not.
>>> 73
>>> Butch
>>> WA0VJR
>>> Node 3148
>>> Wallace, ks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On
>>> Mon, 24 Jul 2017, Pastor Gil Pries  via Talk wrote:
>>>
 The time  has come for me to leave the list.

 I am a Jaws user, and not a Window-eyes user anymore.

 May all go well with all of you.



 Pastor Gil

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Re: how to obtain windoweyes downloadable CD

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

You might be better off calling the Verizon Disabilities desk.

On 7/25/2017 8:35 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
> If you call, do they still help you with window eyes?  I have that 
> problem where messages from yahoogroups don't track correctly.  When 
> they downloaded window eyes for me, the problem cleared up.  When I 
> downloaded window eyes for myself, the problem came back.  So, I figure 
> if I can get them to download window eyes for me, it might clear up the 
> problem again.  I don't know what causes it, and nobody seems to.  Pam.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Loy via Talk
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 10:43 PM
> To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: how to obtain windoweyes downloadable CD
> 
> You can email or call AISquared techsupport and they will give you a 
> link for the download of the full version. I just downloaded a copy fore 
> myself. I would do it before July 31 when the migration to JAWS offer 
> ends. No one knows if they will issue a download after that.
> 
> Are sure Doug is no longer with AISquared?
>   - Original Message -  From: Butch Bussen via Talk
>   To: michaels mail ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>   Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 10:26 PM
>   Subject: Re: how to obtain windoweyes downloadable CD
> 
> 
>   Yes, but Doug isn't there any more.  Speculation on my part, but I'd bet
>   the farm they won't issue a cd.  Everyone is supposed to bow to the jaws
>   God and be greatful.
>   73
>   Butch
>   WA0VJR
>   Node 3148
>   Wallace, ks.
> 
> 
>   On Tue, 25 Jul 2017, michaels mail via Talk wrote:
> 
>   > I do not think that way will work.
>   > I emailed Doug months back and he sent me a link for the full latest 
> window
>   > eyes.
>   > Cos remember this year we had  that cirtifcation issue.
>   > Cheers Michael.
>   >
>   > -Original Message- From: Jeff Weiss via Talk
>   > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:56 AM
>   > To: Dennis Long ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>   > Subject: Re: how to obtain windoweyes downloadable CD
>   >
>   > You know that you can still go through window-eyes help, check for 
> updates,
>   > and then download the latest version update.
>   > I hope you have saved passed cd's and you can use the last cd--I 
> think back
>   > to window-eyes 8.0 and then install this latest update.
>   > As far as buying a replacement cd if you have lost yours, I have 
> know idea
>   > if they will still sell you one for $20 like they used to or not.
>   > I keep every cd and every update that I get, just so I can install 
> on my
>   > other computers without downloading again.
>   > hth,
>   > Jeff Weiss
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > -Original Message- From: Dennis Long via Talk
>   > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 2:04 AM
>   > To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>   > Subject: how to obtain windoweyes downloadable CD
>   >
>   > Hi, how do I get my WindowEyes cd so I can download it and save it?
>   >
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Re: how to obtain windoweyes downloadable CD

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

While you have to do what is best for you, don't cut off your nose to 
spite your jaws.  I don't care if someone never uses Jaws, there is no 
rational basis for not taking advantage of a free offer.

On 7/24/2017 11:07 PM, Darrell Bowles wrote:
> I'm trying to use both NVDA and Narrator as well as dolphin  screen reader, 
> so I don't have to bow to the "JAWS god."
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
> Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 11:05 PM
> To: Butch Bussen <but...@shellworld.net>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; michaels mail <michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au>
> Subject: Re: how to obtain windoweyes downloadable CD
> 
> To be fair, why do they owe anyone a WE CD?  Besides, I'm sure if one goes to 
> Ebay ar Amazon, he'll find what he needs.
> 
> On 7/24/2017 10:26 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
>> Yes, but Doug isn't there any more.  Speculation on my part, but I'd
>> bet the farm they won't issue a cd.  Everyone is supposed to bow to
>> the jaws God and be greatful.
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017, michaels mail via Talk wrote:
>>
>>> I do not think that way will work.
>>> I emailed Doug months back and he sent me a link for the full latest
>>> window eyes.
>>> Cos remember this year we had  that cirtifcation issue.
>>> Cheers Michael.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Jeff Weiss via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:56 AM
>>> To: Dennis Long ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: how to obtain windoweyes downloadable CD
>>>
>>> You know that you can still go through window-eyes help, check for
>>> updates, and then download the latest version update.
>>> I hope you have saved passed cd's and you can use the last cd--I
>>> think back to window-eyes 8.0 and then install this latest update.
>>> As far as buying a replacement cd if you have lost yours, I have know
>>> idea if they will still sell you one for $20 like they used to or
>>> not.
>>> I keep every cd and every update that I get, just so I can install on
>>> my other computers without downloading again.
>>> hth,
>>> Jeff Weiss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Dennis Long via Talk
>>> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 2:04 AM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>>> Subject: how to obtain windoweyes downloadable CD
>>>
>>> Hi, how do I get my WindowEyes cd so I can download it and save it?
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
>>> For membership options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jeff-weiss%40sbcglobal.net.
>>>
>>> For subscription options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>> List archives can be found at
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>>
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>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
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>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/michaelandjeanie%40aapt.net.au.
>>>
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>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>> ___
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>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
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>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/butchb%40shellworld.net.
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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