date:20130819

On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:04 AM, John Firebaugh
john.fireba...@gmail.comwrote:

 iD 1.1 displays relationship memberships in the sidebar much like P2 does.
 We plan to add additional functionality (e.g. highlighting routes on the
 map, visual rendering of turn restrictions) in future versions, but feel
 that 1.1 makes relations visible enough to sufficiently address the concern
 of unintentional damage. As has been discussed before, we are not planning
 to add intrusive Are you sure? warnings to iD. Such second-guessing
 disrupts legitimate workflows and turns away new users, who typically
 already feel anxiety about doing something wrong.


Having fixed (or helped to fix) damaged relations created by well meaning
P2 editors, I think the problem predates iD.
An intrusive Are you sure, really sure: newbie! would be intrusive.  But
that's not the only option. Consider the educational opportunity.  A
message more on the order of:

*Hey, we just noticed that you've edited part of a `relation` for the
first time.  Relations can be a bit tricky, want to learn more? [YES] [NO]
[Don't Bug Me I'm An Expert]*

iD is already brim full of helpful little messages, why not for a subjects
that are really opaque, like relations (and multipologons)?

---
Is there research behind the assertion that messages 'turn away new users'?
 If that's an assumption, not research, then
consider the possibility that new users with 'anxiety about doing something
wrong' might in fact feel comforted by a system with safety brakes,
training wheels, and parachutes.  Something more of a message that *hey,
if we notice anything tricky we'll let you know*.

Just to test this out I went and damaged a relation using P2, iD and JOSM.
 It was JOSM that did the best job of warning me what I was about to
commit.  With iD the relation info was below the fold on the info pane,
and without knowing what I was looking for, I would have missed it.
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[OSM-talk] Upcoming potential website features

2013-08-19 Thread Paul Norman

I'm trying something new to get more visibility to upcoming potential 
website changes, as well as recent website changes. I won't include the 
introductory material next time, but it's worth explaining what I'm 
doing this time. The purpose is both to get a wider audience for the 
discussion of changes and to inform people what's going on. 

For more information about this message and the criteria, see the github 
repo https://github.com/osmlab/openstreetmap-upcoming-features

My criteria for inclusion are 

* User facing: I won't generally include changes that aren't visible on 
osm.org 

* Changes in functionality: I won't count changes that are purely bug 
fixes or changes that aren't apparent to the user 

* Noticeable: There are lots of minor changes to the website to fix 
minor issues. Many of these are immediately merged. 

* Would benefit from comments: I only include changes that stand a 
reasonable chance of being merged in the near future, or changes that 
would benefit from a wider audience 

Feedback on these criteria is welcome, but I have no intention of 
posting every little website change to the list. If you want that, 
follow the issue trackers. 

Most changes are in the openstreetmap-website project at 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website although I will 
include other projects if I'm aware of interesting changes. 

== Changes == 

If you have comments on these changes, the best place is on the 
appropriate github page for the change, which I try to link.

=== Make iD default editor ===
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/453

Makes iD the editor that opens up by default when users click Edit

=== Convert user navigation to a dropdown menu ===
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/447

Turns the links in the top-right into a drop-down menu.

Deployed at http://user.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/

=== Add a help jumping-off page ===
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/456

Adds a new help tab to the top, with links on that tab replacing the 
current Documentation and Help Center. Add new links to other resources. 

=== Rationalize multiple locate me type functions ===
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/373 

Discussion about confusion and duplication between Where am I?, home 
and the new geolocation button. Suggestions of removal of Where am I? 

== Significant merges == 

Add attribution control #423 

Add welcome page #338


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[OSM-talk] Mapping flooded Khartum in OpenStreetMap on the World Humanitarian Day 19-Aug 2013.

2013-08-19 Thread nicolas chavent

Hi all,

Below is an email related to the World Humanitairian Day of this 19-Aug
2013 by Severin which has been posted on HOT and French speaking talk lists.
Have a quick read and join this mapping effort focused in Khartum.

Excellent day,
Nicolas

-
Mapping flooded Khartum on the World Humanitarian Day 19-Aug 2013.


Hi,

19-Aug 2013 is the world humanitarian day [1]

Within this initiative, we are proposing to join a remote mapping campaign
targetting the most flooded areas of Khartoum (Sudan).
Details on this crisis are available through Relief Web: flood report [2],
sudan weekly report [3].
More info about the HOT response on the English [4] and French [5] wiki
page for this disaster.

3 Jobs have been set on the HOT Tasking manager:
- Task no 289 [5]: a few tasks are left with mapping of streets and
buildings
- Task no 292 [6]: neighborhoods located South East from the town where
streets only have to be mapped in this first task.
- Task no 293 [7]: neighborhoods located West from the River where streets/
roads only have to be mapped given the size of the area

Thanks in advance for all of those who will be part of this mapping
Best,

Severin


[1] = http://worldhumanitarianday.org/fr
[2] = http://reliefweb.int/map/sudan/sudan-flash-floods-06-aug-2013
[3] =
http://reliefweb.int/report/sudan/sudan-humanitarian-bulletin-issue-32-5-11-august-2013
[4] = http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2013_Sudan_floods
[5] = http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/289
[6] = http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/292
[7] = http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/293


-- Forwarded message --
From: Severin MENARD severin.men...@gmail.com
Date: 2013/8/19
Subject: [Talk-ht] 19 août, journée mondiale de l'aide humanitaire,
cartographie de Khartoum
To: Discussions sur OSM en français talk...@openstreetmap.org,
OSM-Talk-Haiti talk...@openstreetmap.org, talk...@openstreetmap.org 
talk...@openstreetmap.org, talk-cm talk...@openstreetmap.org, 
talk...@openstreetmap.org talk...@openstreetmap.org,
talk...@openstreetmap.org


Bonjour,

Le 19 août est la journée mondiale de
l'humanitairehttp://worldhumanitarianday.org/fr
.

Dans le cadre de cet événement nous vous proposons de participer à la
cartographie à distance des zones les plus inondées de Khartoum au Soudan.
Plus d'informations sur la page wiki OSM, désormais aussi en français :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:2013_Sudan_floods

Il y a trois jobs du Tasking Manager (gestionnaire de tâches) qui sont
d;evolu à cette réponse de crise :

   - no 289 http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/289 où il reste quelques dalles
   avec des rues et bâtiments à cartographier
   - no 292 http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/292 qui couvre une zone au
   sud-est de la ville ; sules les rues sont cartographiées dans cette
   première étape
   - no 293 http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/293 qui comprend une grande
   partie des quartiers à l'ouest du fleuve où seules rues sont à
   cartographier compte tenu de la surface


Merci d'avance à tous les participants !

Séverin


2013/8/16 Severin MENARD severin.men...@gmail.com

 Bonsoir à tous,

 Merci à tous ceux qui ont participé à la cartographie sur le job du
 Tasking Manager. Le travail est pratiquement déjà achevé.
 J'ai ajouté deux autres jobs que vous pouvez trouver dans la page wiki :
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2013_Sudan_floods. Pour visualiser
 facilement l'étendue de la zone habitée sur la partie Ouest de la ville,
 j'ai ajouté la zone résidentielle dans OSM :
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/15.6776/32.4622

 Compte tenu de leur étendue, dans un premier temps, il s'agit de
 cartographier les rues.

 Bien cordialement,

 Severin

 HOT (Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team)


 2013/8/10 Severin MENARD severin.men...@gmail.com

 Bonsoir à tous,

 Khartoum, la capitale du Soudan, subit depuis début août de très fortes
 pluies qui donne lieu à des inondations et des zones totalement sous les
 eaux, faisant déjà plusieurs victimes. Les prévisions météorologiques
 annoncent un maintien des conditions météorologiques. Vous pouvez suivre
 l'évolution de la situation sur khartoumflood.crowdmap.com.

 La réponse humanitaire est coordonnée sur le terrain par le PNUD.

 J'ai créé un premier job du Gestionnaire de tâches de HOT (*OSM Tasking
 Manager*) afin de coordonner la cartographie des quartiers de Marabee El
 Shareif et Soba East: http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/289. D'autres
 quartiers viendront. Je vais aussi créer bientôt une page wiki.

 SVP cartographiez tous les rues et bâtiments de la zone du job afin
 d'obtenir la situation pré-crise, sur laquelle une analyse des dommages
 sera effectuée. La donnée OSM sur Khartoum est téléchargeable dans
 différents formats SIG à partir du service HOT Export ; j'y ai configuré
ce
 job :

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



Il giorno 18/ago/2013, alle ore 19:04, John Firebaugh 
john.fireba...@gmail.com ha scritto:

 As has been discussed before, we are not planning to add intrusive Are you 
 sure? warnings to iD. Such second-guessing disrupts legitimate workflows and 
 turns away new users, who typically already feel anxiety about doing 
 something wrong.


with that approach (letting the users incidentally damage turn restrictions or 
other relations without warning by deleting members or combining them in a 
harmful way ) new users will get even more anxious as they will get mailed by 
others afterwards.

Relations are fragile and if they are almost hidden for the mapper a warning 
should be the minimal precaution (or alternatively don't let iD users do these 
kind of edits where relations are involved and would be damaged).

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Lester Caine


Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

As has been discussed before, we are not planning to add intrusive Are you 
sure? warnings to iD. Such second-guessing disrupts legitimate workflows and turns 
away new users, who typically already feel anxiety about doing something wrong.


with that approach (letting the users incidentally damage turn restrictions or 
other relations without warning by deleting members or combining them in a 
harmful way ) new users will get even more anxious as they will get mailed by 
others afterwards.

Relations are fragile and if they are almost hidden for the mapper a warning 
should be the minimal precaution (or alternatively don't let iD users do these 
kind of edits where relations are involved and would be damaged).


I used to get irritated by what seemed to be unnecessary warnings, but now I'd 
prefer to see even more of them. I could make a case for an 'expert' switch to 
disable them selectively, but that would be something I'd probably leave off. 
Often the warning is a prompt to cross check what one is doing.


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Janko Mihelić

2013/8/19 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com



 Relations are fragile and if they are almost hidden for the mapper a
 warning should be the minimal precaution (or alternatively don't let iD
 users do these kind of edits where relations are involved and would be
 damaged).


A turn restriction issue was opened on ID Github page 9 months ago, and I
commented about preserving existing turn restrictions 5 months ago:

https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues/224#issuecomment-14895836

I still think preserving existing relations should be a priority.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Brad Neuhauser

Back to the original question about iD being the default editor:

Originally at least part of the thinking behind iD was to have a
newbie-friendly editor [0].  As seen before and in this thread, more
advanced users want to keep adding functionality, which will tend to make
it less simple and friendly.  This is understandable for any number of
reasons (don't like Flash, know Potlatch 2 isn't being actively developed
any longer, don't want to use JOSM, want uniform options across editors,
etc).

Would it be make sense (and be possible) to have a super-basic version of
iD be the default, and have people be able to opt-in to a more advanced
version through their user preferences and/or the existing Edit tab
dropdown?  Maybe when you saved with the basic version, there could be a
prompt to try the more advanced version of iD?

This may be a pain technically or culturally (main issue being where do you
draw the line?  but really, would a total newbie need to edit
multipolygons, or create turn restrictions, or load custom imagery?).  Just
thought I'd bring it up.

Cheers, Brad

[0] from the iD wiki page: *iD* is an OpenStreetMap
editorhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editorprogrammed in
JavaScript http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:JavaScript (usable directly in
the browser) with the aims to be *simple* and *friendly*.

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:

 2013/8/19 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com



 Relations are fragile and if they are almost hidden for the mapper a
 warning should be the minimal precaution (or alternatively don't let iD
 users do these kind of edits where relations are involved and would be
 damaged).


 A turn restriction issue was opened on ID Github page 9 months ago, and I
 commented about preserving existing turn restrictions 5 months ago:

 https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues/224#issuecomment-14895836

 I still think preserving existing relations should be a priority.

 Janko

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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Frederik Ramm


Hi,

On 19.08.2013 15:01, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

with that approach (letting the users incidentally damage turn restrictions or 
other relations without warning by deleting members or combining them in a 
harmful way )


It has been claimed often that iD damages relations. Can we somehow 
substantiate that claim?


Could anyone provide a detailed description of a non-esoteric use case 
that involves


* a kind (and structure) of relation that is very common and thus likely 
to be encountered by a new contributor;


* a simple-looking edit that is likely to be made by a new contributor 
and that results in a broken relation in iD?


In what way will the relation be broken, and what indication (if any) 
does iD display about the problem?


This is a honest question because I haven't researched the claims in 
depth and I know that for some users it is already sufficient if they 
find a totally complex situation which exists about three times in all 
of OSM and then on top of that construct an unusal maneuvre and then cry 
foul if the editor exhibits a weakness in that situation.


It is clear that allowing a user to inadvertently break something and 
get nasty emails afterwards is the worst possible user experience we can 
provide. But I would like to get a feeling about just how likely this is 
to happen. There's a certain threshold below which it is probably not 
worth discussing improvements to the editor.


If iD has a problem with relations that will, for one in 500 new 
contributors, lead to them receiving nasty email, being embarrassed by 
what they did, and leaving the project, then that is a number that would 
easily be offset by the clear advances in usability that iD brings. If 
on the other hand this were likely to happen to one in 50 new users then 
maybe a more diligent approach is required.


Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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Re: [OSM-talk] New welcome page

On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 9:04 AM, John Firebaugh john.fireba...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Martin,

 On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:18 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
 dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:

 Could we extend the basic terms on the new welcome page?


 The new users I talk to tell me that the number one reason they were
 hesitant to start contributing to OSM was that it presented itself as
 complex, highly technical, and easy to mess up.


To the extent that's the problem, then there is a natural path of solution:
 find a set of modest but useful scenarios for new users to get started
with.  Don't try to feed them the entire enchilada all at once: find
smaller discrete tasks that can be done, observed and appreciated.  Map a
nearby toilet.  Check out that street sign and verify it is correct.
 Draw roads in this area, Meet a mapper in your area and help answer a
question of ground knowledge...
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Re: [OSM-talk] Endorsing properietary social platforms

On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote:

 I think this is a great solution to the tension between OSM not
 endorsing proprietary data sites and enabling people to do what they
 want to do.


Moving discussion to the project in question:
https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues/1706
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread NopMap

Hi!

I have just worked through all the previous posts here and experimented with
the test instance in my home turf. The short anwer is: No, I do not believe
that ID is in a state to make it the default editor, especially not to
welcome newbies.

The long answer:

I still see very bad performance in Firefox. I noticed that editing has been
limited to zoom 16 and higher which is a very crude way to limit the data
displayed. But it also makes orientation very difficult when you have to
move around. Even when there are not many lines to display, ID remains
jumpy, dragging of the map rather results in two jumps for moving a full
screen with up to one second delay in denser areas.

I agree with the previous posts that ID is not a suitable editor for
beginners/as default as long as it presents destructive operations in such a
prominent manner. I'm referring to the delete button but also to the
make-square, make-round and rotate options. You do not need these to draw
streets on top of tracks or aerial imagery, which is the basic start of
mapping. I have never used them at all. But they can be very destructive for
existing geometry. An expert mode where you can add those operations later
might be a good solution.

I tried deleting a few things and there was no warning that I was acting
destructively. The warning before saving is too general and the list of
change objects also does not indicate whether I did something dangerous. I
believe that immediate warnings when you do something dangerous (and an
expert switch to disable them later) would be very helpful to prevent damage
and teach the user how to proceed.

What's more, the existing icons would confuse me as a newcomer. For ways,
there is a move-around icon (which is useful), if I click on a node, only
delete is shown, nothing else. In particular, there is no move-around icon.
As a powermapper I know that I can directly drag the node and don't need it,
but to a newcomer the absence might suggest that you should rather delete
the node with the prominent trashcan and re-create it somewhere else.

The wording on the delete button is also misleading. It says: remove this
from the map. But that is not what it does. It deletes it from the
database, not from any particular map. This encourages the common
misunderstanding that OSM is a map and of course unnecessary deletions.

On the other hand, some very useful functions seem to be missing. Or at
least they are not offered as icons and I couldn't figure out how to do it.
One is click on end node of line and continue drawing it (click on node in
P2). Another is copy tags from similar way (r in P2).

There is some relation handling, but the visibility of relations is still
insufficient. They are shown in the sidebar, but with all instances I tried,
the normal tags took up all the visible space in the bar and you had do
scroll down to read anything about relations. As they are not marked on the
map in any way, they are still invisible to the unsuspecting user. If you
don't know that there must be a relation there and directly look for it,
they remain totally invisible.

I found the handling of multipolygons very confusing. I clicked a MP area
and the sidebar showed Multipolygon. Pretending that I didn't know what
that is I clicked i, only to be rewarded with there is no documentation
for this key. I deleted some of the members with the message not
downloaded and ID accepted that without warning. I see no way a newcomer
had any chance to use this.

I agree with the previous posts that OSM should not create a connection to
Facebook, Twitter or any other social service without conscious choice by
the user or in a way that suggests that it is an integral part of OSM or
that membership there is required in any way. A good solution might be a
plain share link on the save page that leads you to a setting where you
can opt-in to your favorite services if you like to. Or maybe you could
detect the Facebook session and tracking cookies and show it the button only
if you have an active session. But currently it looks like OSM is simply
advertising for Facebook.

bye, Nop

--
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http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Making-iD-the-default-editor-on-osm-org-tp5773770p5774123.html
Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Alex Barth

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 5:27 PM, NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote:

 I still see very bad performance in Firefox. I noticed that editing has
 been
 limited to zoom 16 and higher which is a very crude way to limit the data
 displayed. But it also makes orientation very difficult when you have to
 move around. Even when there are not many lines to display, ID remains
 jumpy, dragging of the map rather results in two jumps for moving a full
 screen with up to one second delay in denser areas.


Hey there -

- FF version
- area you tested
- OS

Would be great to know.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread John Firebaugh

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:01 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 with that approach (letting the users incidentally damage turn
 restrictions or other relations without warning by deleting members or
 combining them in a harmful way ) new users will get even more anxious as
 they will get mailed by others afterwards.


Well, we could try sending them polite emails, welcoming them to the
community, expressing appreciations for their contributions, and
constructively suggesting how to improve their future edits.

John
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:59 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 Hi,
 it has been proposed to make the newly released iD v1.1 the default editor
 on openstreetmap.org, meaning that if someone doesn't explicitly chose an
 editor they will open iD instead of Potlatch.



To try and summarize key points, on topic of is iD ready to take over from
P2...

   1. Potlatch is not maintained, and seems unlikely to be maintained.  iD
   is the only presently viable way forward.

   2. iD is quite slow on older systems, and a suitable fallback to P2 has
   not yet been shown.

   3. There are concerns about how cushioned the editing experience is:
   if iD makes new users feel sufficiently comfortable they won't do damage,
   and if iD protects (or at least warns) enough about potentially damaging
   activity.  iD is presumed to be more suitable for new mappers: that
   assertion has not been definitely proven yet the chance that assertion is
   correct makes some experienced editors nervous.

   4. There are concerns that iD (and thus osm.org) will promote Facebook
   and Twitter, over other social networks.

   5. There are concerns that iD makes deletion of features more prominent
   in the UI, compared to prior editors.

   6. At least one user is concerned that anonymous bug reports are not
   possible at https://github.com/systemed/iD

   7. There are concerns that in simplifying the editing experience (see
   #2) some complex topics are not explained (e.g. relations, multipologons).

   8. Social features, to help integrate a new mapper into community or
   correct editing mistakes, are not present yet.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Frederik Ramm


Nop,


I'm referring to the delete button but also to the
make-square, make-round and rotate options. You do not need these to draw
streets on top of tracks or aerial imagery, which is the basic start of
mapping.


Quite a few people start with tracing buildings nowadays, a task for 
which this functionality is very important. By no means should tracing 
of buildings be an expert task!


(It would be cool if the make square tool would reject the making 
square of very un-square things like roundabouts, but all our other 
editors will happily square a circle for you so it would be a bit unfair 
to demand different from iD I think.)



I tried deleting a few things and there was no warning that I was acting
destructively. The warning before saving is too general and the list of
change objects also does not indicate whether I did something dangerous.


Our current entry-level editor, Potlatch 2, doesn't warn that you're 
acting destructively when deleting objects either. A couple good ideas 
have been floated about reducing the trash-can prominence in iD; don't 
you think that might already solve the problem?



I believe that immediate warnings when you do something dangerous (and an
expert switch to disable them later) would be very helpful to prevent damage
and teach the user how to proceed.


I think one shouldn't be religious about warnings/questions/popup 
messages - sure it's a UI challenge to do them well but simply not doing 
them at all, ever, doesn't automatically mean you have a good UI. 
However, a pop-up message every time you have deleted something would 
surely be stretching it!


-- Going off on a tangent here and leaving the scope of immediate iD 
improvements - someone else has posted that a while ago in a different 
discussion. Maybe we are far too obsessed with trying to make sure 
nothing is ever broken in an edit session. Maybe we should focus more on 
post-processing of edits. Give users the option of saying I'd like 
someone else to review my edit. If user does that, a special tag 
(review=yes) is set on the changeset. A list/map of such changesets 
for review could then be generated and processed by users who are 
interested in helping. Before too long we'll have feature where 
changesets can be commented/discussed which would go nicely with this.



What's more, the existing icons would confuse me as a newcomer.


Then again, only real newcomers count in that department - of course 
*my* first time with iD was confusing because I was used to other 
editors, and it will have been no different with you.



I agree with the previous posts that OSM should not create a connection to
Facebook, Twitter or any other social service without conscious choice by
the user


There seems to be a potential solution to this - making these things 
into post-edit plugins that the user would activate. The open question 
is whether the current options (FB, Twitter) should be shelved until 
plugins are available, or kept live until plugins are available. There's 
a github issue here https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues/1706 - tmcw 
has already said that the issue is low priority on his side but of 
course anybody else with Javascript proficiency for whom this is a high 
priority could chip in with a pull request any time!


Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 -- Going off on a tangent here and leaving the scope of immediate iD
 improvements - someone else has posted that a while ago in a different
 discussion. Maybe we are far too obsessed with trying to make sure nothing
 is ever broken in an edit session. Maybe we should focus more on
 post-processing of edits. Give users the option of saying I'd like someone
 else to review my edit. If user does that, a special tag (review=yes) is
 set on the changeset. A list/map of such changesets for review could then
 be generated and processed by users who are interested in helping. Before
 too long we'll have feature where changesets can be commented/discussed
 which would go nicely with this.


+100 on this.  OSM editing for a first timer is lonely.
There's no evidence anyone in the project cares until you make a mistake
(then you get pillored).

Mistakes themselves are not a problem in a system with undo.
But in a database with millions of nodes, something has to focus checking,
else bad edits just drop as needles into the haystack.
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[OSM-talk] New users and post-edit processing (was Making iD the default editor on osm.org)

2013-08-19 Thread Kathleen Danielson

I also think this is a great idea. To me, the idea that we can release a
piece of software until it's perfect because if a new user makes a mistake
he or she will received nasty emails is fundamentally flawed. Granted,
there's a bit of hyperbole in there, but I appreciate this different view
of the issue.

As we approach the status of having fully mapped the world, we will
inevitably need to increasingly shift our focus to map maintenance over
creation. Granted, many people are already doing that excellently, but the
issue of map gardening deserves more attention so that more people can
participate and maintain and improve the quality of OSM's data.




On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:

 On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.orgwrote:

 -- Going off on a tangent here and leaving the scope of immediate iD
 improvements - someone else has posted that a while ago in a different
 discussion. Maybe we are far too obsessed with trying to make sure nothing
 is ever broken in an edit session. Maybe we should focus more on
 post-processing of edits. Give users the option of saying I'd like someone
 else to review my edit. If user does that, a special tag (review=yes) is
 set on the changeset. A list/map of such changesets for review could then
 be generated and processed by users who are interested in helping. Before
 too long we'll have feature where changesets can be commented/discussed
 which would go nicely with this.


 +100 on this.  OSM editing for a first timer is lonely.
 There's no evidence anyone in the project cares until you make a mistake
 (then you get pillored).

 Mistakes themselves are not a problem in a system with undo.
 But in a database with millions of nodes, something has to focus checking,
 else bad edits just drop as needles into the haystack.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Toby Murray

We aren't trying to make The Perfect Editor here.  We are trying to replace
an aging editor with something more current. Let us not make perfection the
enemy of progress. Of course there are still improvements to be made but iD
is definitely a fantastic bit of code. We can keep bikeshedding it until
the cows come home but at some point a switch needs to be thrown.

Some specific responses:

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 4:27 PM, NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote:


 I agree with the previous posts that ID is not a suitable editor for
 beginners/as default as long as it presents destructive operations in such
 a
 prominent manner. I'm referring to the delete button but also to the
 make-square, make-round and rotate options. You do not need these to draw
 streets on top of tracks or aerial imagery, which is the basic start of
 mapping. I have never used them at all. But they can be very destructive
 for
 existing geometry. An expert mode where you can add those operations later
 might be a good solution.


So basically, you don't like the radial context menu. That is mostly a UI
design decision. These operations are not all that much less prominent in
P2. They were just in a box down in the corner of the map instead of
at-the-ready under your mouse cursor. Initially I wasn't sold on the radial
menus but I think they work reasonably well here. Every once in a while
they get in the way of something I want to select but most of the time they
are pretty handy.


 I tried deleting a few things and there was no warning that I was acting
 destructively. The warning before saving is too general and the list of
 change objects also does not indicate whether I did something dangerous. I
 believe that immediate warnings when you do something dangerous (and an
 expert switch to disable them later) would be very helpful to prevent
 damage
 and teach the user how to proceed.


This is identical behavior to P2. I just tried deleting ways that were
members of turn restriction and bus route relations in P2. No warning, just
silent deletion. This is not a reason that would prevent iD from replacing
P2.



 The wording on the delete button is also misleading. It says: remove this
 from the map. But that is not what it does. It deletes it from the
 database, not from any particular map. This encourages the common
 misunderstanding that OSM is a map and of course unnecessary deletions.


So what is your suggestion for new text on this button? You can't explain
the difference between a map rendering and a geodatabase in a tooltip.


 On the other hand, some very useful functions seem to be missing. Or at
 least they are not offered as icons and I couldn't figure out how to do it.
 One is click on end node of line and continue drawing it (click on node
 in
 P2). Another is copy tags from similar way (r in P2).


You just select the line tool and click on the end of a way. It
automatically continues the existing way. I will concede that this isn't
exactly obvious. Do you have a suggestion to make it better? I think the P2
behavior would be inconsistent with the rest of the UI in iD. Maybe just
make the tooltip say Add or extend... instead of just Add?



 There is some relation handling, but the visibility of relations is still
 insufficient. They are shown in the sidebar, but with all instances I
 tried,
 the normal tags took up all the visible space in the bar and you had do
 scroll down to read anything about relations. As they are not marked on the
 map in any way, they are still invisible to the unsuspecting user. If you
 don't know that there must be a relation there and directly look for it,
 they remain totally invisible.


Again, this is pretty similar to current P2 behavior and not something that
should block iD from replacing P2 as the default. I think P2 does display
some relation types slightly more prominently. But for example turning
restrictions are rendered on the map as a somewhat meaningless icon on the
via node. Other than that you have to switch to Advanced mode to see most
relation information. This is even further removed from visibility than at
the bottom of the side panel in iD.



 I agree with the previous posts that OSM should not create a connection to
 Facebook, Twitter or any other social service without conscious choice by
 the user or in a way that suggests that it is an integral part of OSM or
 that membership there is required in any way. A good solution might be a
 plain share link on the save page that leads you to a setting where you
 can opt-in to your favorite services if you like to. Or maybe you could
 detect the Facebook session and tracking cookies and show it the button
 only
 if you have an active session. But currently it looks like OSM is simply
 advertising for Facebook.


I view having to click on the buttons as sufficient opt-in. I mean
seriously... who in their right mind would think that a share on Facebook
button is some kind of official endorsement of Facebook by OSMF? There are
share,

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Stephen Hope

On 20 August 2013 07:57, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:


 I think one shouldn't be religious about warnings/questions/popup messages
 - sure it's a UI challenge to do them well but simply not doing them at
 all, ever, doesn't automatically mean you have a good UI. However, a pop-up
 message every time you have deleted something would surely be stretching it!


No, I don't think it is, as long as there is a Don't show me this message
again mechanism in the message itself, or alternatively you could just
show it once. Think of it like tutorial mode in a game, turned on by
default for beginners. The computer game industry has spent a lot of time
working out how to get casual users up to speed on new software, some of
their techniques are worth looking at.


 -- Going off on a tangent here and leaving the scope of immediate iD
 improvements - someone else has posted that a while ago in a different
 discussion. Maybe we are far too obsessed with trying to make sure nothing
 is ever broken in an edit session. Maybe we should focus more on
 post-processing of edits. Give users the option of saying I'd like someone
 else to review my edit. If user does that, a special tag (review=yes) is
 set on the changeset. A list/map of such changesets for review could then
 be generated and processed by users who are interested in helping. Before
 too long we'll have feature where changesets can be commented/discussed
 which would go nicely with this.



Yes - and if some-one asks for a review, we should ask the reviewer to send
a response - even if it just says every thing looks OK to me

 In fact, I'd go further - in whatever mechanism we are using to get the
changesets that need reviewing, I'd also add the option to review any new
users first (few?) changeset that did not ask for review. We don't
necessarily need to respond to these, but a mechanism to easily identify
ones that haven't been reviewed would be good.

I've seen this idea work in other crowd sourced efforts. As long as we are
upfront about the fact that your first few efforts might be sanity checked,
people don't seem to mind.

Stephen
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread John Firebaugh

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

It has been claimed often that iD damages relations. Can we somehow
substantiate that claim?

Could anyone provide a detailed description of a non-esoteric use case
that involves

* a kind (and structure) of relation that is very common and thus likely
to be encountered by a new contributor;

* a simple-looking edit that is likely to be made by a new contributor and
that results in a broken relation in iD?

In what way will the relation be broken, and what indication (if any) does
iD display about the problem?

The two examples that are most commonly given are deleting then re-drawing
(rather than adjusting in place) a section of road that is a member of a
route relation, and merging or splitting ways in that are members of a turn
restriction.

Of these two, the first is more likely to meet your criteria, route
relations being much more common than turn restrictions, and merging ways
being somewhat uncommon of an action for a new contributor. I haven't
actually seen changesets that exhibit either of these cases, however. I
don't have any empirical data to back it up, but my hunch is that they
occur significantly less frequently than one would expect given the level
of concern over them.

Comparing iD to P2:

* P2 displays colored strokes for ways that are members of route relations;
iD does not. We plan to implement this eventually for iD, but until then
one could argue that this makes route relations slightly more visible in P2.
* But on the other hand, relation memberships are only displayed in the
advanced tab of the P2 sidebar, whereas they are always visible in iD.
* Neither editor has a warning when you delete a way that is a member of a
route relation.
* Neither editor has a warning when you merge a way that is a member of a
turn restriction.
* iD displays modified relations in the save UI. P2 does not.
* iD just does the right
thinghttps://github.com/systemed/iD/blob/e631faa185358b8b85732d46f1734881342dc4e1/test/spec/actions/split.js#L401-L496when
you split ways that are members of a turn restriction. P2 does not.

I think that overall, users will be less likely to accidentally damage
relations with iD than with P2.

John
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[OSM-talk] Photo Competition

2013-08-19 Thread Rob Nickerson

Hi All,

To get you excited for State of the Map in 17 days time, we have launched a
photo competition to find the most usual object / sign / situation found
whilst surveying.

You don't need to be attending SOTM 2013 to enter this competition so head
over to the blog post [1] or wiki page [2] to find out more.

Regards,
Rob
stateofthemap.org

p.s. Do not reply with your photos here - they will not be picked up by the
SOTM team.

[1] http://2013.stateofthemap.org/blog/photo-competition/
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2013/Competition
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Kai Krueger

brycenesbitt wrote
5. There are concerns that iD makes deletion of features more prominent
in the UI, compared to prior editors.

In all this discussion if the delete feature, or rectanglify is too
prominent, I always wonder why people don't just undo the accidental
mistake? Even as an experienced mapper I have made enough accidental
mistakes by e.g. deleting the wrong thing, or moving whole land areas
instead of just a node, or the editor did something I did not expect it to
do or I did something else destructively by mistake. And I have done this in
all the editors I have used including JOSM. However, I hope that I have
always noticed that what I just did was unintentional and hit the undo
button. (In that respect I am rather glad OSM got rid of the live edit
mode of Potlatch where the option of undo, or in the worst case just close
the editor without saving, was not possible)

So one line of questioning should be: Do people not notice what they have
done? Do people intend to do those actions, because they did not understand
that this was wrong? Do people not find the undo button? Does the editor too
often do things they didn't expect and got so frustrated that they saved the
broken result anyway?

Apart from in the last case, reducing the prominence of the delete and
rectanglify buttons likely won't really help. Both delete and rectanglify
really are pretty basic functions that any new user is likely to seek out,
so hiding it isn't going to help.

Amongst the people who do new user training and therefore have a great
opportunity to observe newbies and understand where they go wrong, has
anyone observed this specific issue of unintended deletions getting into the
DB? Do they have any insights as to what went wrong in the human-editor
interaction?

Are there other user interface changes possible to make people more aware of
what they are doing? I.e. make sure that e.g. deleting something is visually
obvious? Perhaps the currently selected object needs to be bright yellow,
in which case any changes to that object becomes much more prominent and you
can't just accidentally do something to the object without noticing? This
may well even be helpful to experienced mappers to make sure they know what
is going on. Particularly if you have an inteligent editor which tries to
guess what you wanted to do and automatically do it for you.

On the other hand, is this really an issue with iD? Or does it happen just
as much in other editors and a small error rate is simply inevitable in a
collaborative project like OSM?

Kai

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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Kai Krueger

Toby Murray-2 wrote
We aren't trying to make The Perfect Editor here. We are trying to
replace
an aging editor with something more current. Let us not make perfection
the
enemy of progress.

Although a perfect editor would of course be nice, it isn't really
achievable so yes, we don't want to let the perfect be enemy of progress.
But we do want to make sure it actually is progress.

Pretty much all of the people discussing here how newbies interact with
editors are actually experienced mappers. Once you have gained a certain
level of experience for a while, it is really quite difficult to put your
self in the shoes of a newcommer and understand how they see the world.
Somethings you might think are complicated and try and thoroughly explain
(or hide the complexity) might not be that difficult and newbies might find
it condescendingly dumbed down, other things you might not even have
considered as a point of confusion totally baffles a newcommer. E.g. is the
sentence on the new welcome page An editor is a program or website you can
use to edit the map blindingly obvious, misleadingly simplified, or an
important relevant piece of information to newbies?

It would be great if we could have some actual data comparing how P2 (the
current default editor) performs against iD. Is iD already an overall
improvement? Or do the remaining issues like performance in Firefox or
relations support totally overshadow the benefits of iD?

Perhaps we could have another go at thinking about A/B testing. I.e. have at
random some people get iD as default during signup and some new signups
still have P2 as default. Then after a while we can track certain statistics
and see if there are significant, measurable differences and make an
informed objective decision (rather than a biased subjective one).

Of cause it isn't easy to come up with good summery statistics. But things
like % of people who signup saving at least one edit. % of people who do
more than one editing session, % of people who get (angry) mails from other
mappers might give a good initial indication of overall how one editor
performs compared to the other.

Kai

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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013-08-19 Thread Jason Remillard

Hi,

Since everybody is pilling onto this, here is my 2 cents.

I find the P2 editor completely unusable, it is too slow, its is very
hard to use, and requires me to enable a completely insecure plugin to
run. I would not be involved in the project if I did not discover JOSM
shortly after starting. It is not like P2 is a joy to use.

I look around my area and there are 100's of people that made an
account and either made no changes or just one change and left. The
map is not even close to being completed or perfect. I would be
*delighted* to fix a couple broken relations or remap something that
was deleted by mistake, if we could get more mappers in my area. We
need more people mapping more than anything else.

ID's first impressions are so much better than P2, it is a
no-brainier, make it the default. Do it now.

Also, for what its worth, I have fixed more new mapper mistakes done
in P2 than ID since ID went live.

Jason







On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 2:59 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 Hi,

 it has been proposed to make the newly released iD v1.1 the default
 editor on openstreetmap.org, meaning that if someone doesn't explicitly
 chose an editor they will open iD instead of Potlatch.

 Refer to the previous thread In the works: iD 1.1 for details on that
 release.

 The relevant GitHub pull request is here:

 https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/453

 It is likely that this pull request will be merged (i.e. accepted and
 incorporated into the OSM web site) in the near future unless there are
 important reasons not to.

 Bye
 Frederik

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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 74, Issue 7

2013-08-19 Thread Li Xia

Is marking source:GeoScience Australia considered attribution?

Li.

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:00 PM, talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:

Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
talk-au@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than Re: Contents of Talk-au digest...

Today's Topics:

1. Incorporating public information into OSM - Legal situation
(Brett Russell)

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 19:49:43 +1030
From: Brett Russell brussell...@live.com.au
To: OSM Australia mailing list talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [talk-au] Incorporating public information into OSM - Legal
situation
Message-ID: snt149-w80b55e70cf0cc334abdef7af...@phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have been working on OSM maps for bushwalking and this has generated a
fair bit of interest. A few people have taken up mapping and one person
approached me on lifting rivers and streams data from the 1:250,000
publicly available data. My response was no as it is likely copyrighted
and OSM requires no restriction be placed on the data. Not to be defeated
he wrote to A/g Manager, Information Product Management Policy Unit
Information Management Corporate Services | GEOSCIENCE AUSTRALIA and
received this reply.

Thank you for your email enquiry in regards to copyright and Creative
Commons. The material available as a free download under a Creative
Commons Attribution 3.0 Australia licence is still under copyright. We
are releasing many of our products under the CC-BY licence which means
that you may share (copy, distribute and transmit the work), remix and
make adaption or even make commercial use of the work. The only
condition for using the product under this licence is that you must
attribute Geoscience Australia.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/au/deed.en

If you have any further questions or would like me to send you the
attribution statement we require please let me know.

Regards

Given that this data (rough as it might be) might be available what is the
OSM community thoughts on an Australia wide approach? Basically has anyone
been down this road. I would imagine the challenge would be to identify
what data is available under what license.

Anyway your thoughts please.

Cheers

Brett

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End of Talk-au Digest, Vol 74, Issue 7
**

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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 74, Issue 7

2013-08-19 Thread Paul Norman

Source tags don't provide any kind of attribution because they can be (and
are) removed at any time by any user of the database. Attribution is
provided by listing on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors

From: Li Xia [mailto:lisxia1...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 5:50 AM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 74, Issue 7

Is marking source:GeoScience Australia considered attribution?

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Re: [talk-au] Incorporating public information into OSM - Legal situation

2013-08-19 Thread Daniel O'Connor

CC-BY-A is fine to my knowledge - you can fulfill the attribution
requirements with an appropriate attribution in the wiki.
See:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Australian_government_public_information_datasets
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Make_sure_data_license_is_OK

I'd go back and go one further and ensure we have explicit permission (ie:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission),
which seems likely to be granted, and then knock yourself out :)

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Brett Russell brussell...@live.com.auwrote:

Thank you for your email enquiry in regards to copyright and Creative
Commons. The material available as a free download under a Creative Commons
Attribution 3.0 Australia licence is still under copyright. We are
releasing many of our products under the CC-BY licence which means that you
may share (copy, distribute and transmit the work), remix and make adaption
or even make commercial use of the work. The only condition for using the
product under this licence is that you must attribute Geoscience Australia.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/au/deed.en

If you have any further questions or would like me to send you the
attribution statement we require please let me know.

Regards

Anyway your thoughts please.

Cheers

Brett

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Re: [Talk-br] Má importação em Sobradinho

2013-08-19 Thread Nelson A. de Oliveira

Nesse changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16556781
dá para ver.
É bem estranho onde existe acentuação (que aparece com símbolo errado)
e ruas com nome Rua

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Re: [Talk-de] Frage zum JOSM Windows Installer und -Webstart

2013-08-19 Thread jotpe

Java Webstart bei Wikipedia

Bei jedem Start einer Java-Web-Start-Anwendung kann überprüft werden, ob
neuere Komponenten vorliegen. So kann der Anwender stets mit der aktuellen
vom Autor des Programms zur Verfügung gestellten Version arbeiten. Eine
einmal heruntergeladene Version einer Anwendung bleibt solange in einem
Zwischenspeicher (engl. Cache http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cache) auf
der Festplatte des Clients, bis bei der Prüfung festgestellt wird, dass
eine neue Version vorliegt und diese geladen werden muss. Somit werden
unnötige Downloads verhindert, und es wird trotzdem sichergestellt, dass
immer die aktuelle Programmversion läuft.

Am Sonntag, 18. August 2013 schrieb Tirkon :

 Windows:
 Wenn eine neue JOSM Version vorliegt, wird man zwecks Update auf diese
 Seite geführt:
 http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/De:WikiStart
 Der dort befindliche JOSM Windows Installer ist recht groß. Ändett
 sich bei einem Update auf eine neue Version mehr als nur JOSM.exe?

 JOSM wird recht oft uupgedated. Wäre es nicht sinnvoll, wenn neben dem
 großen JOSM Windows Installer ein kleiner JOSM Windows Updater
 angeboten würde, der nur die benötigten Teile (möglicherweise nur
 JOSM.exe) austauscht?


 Webstart:
 Zu diesen Fragen habe ich auf
 http://www.java.com/de/download/faq/java_webstart.xml
 keine Antwort gefunden.

 Läuft JOSM hier lokal auf dem PC oder einem Webserver, wie der Name
 vermuten lassen könnte? Wenn letzteres, auf welchem Webserver? Können
 Plugins wie bei der Windows Version installiert werden? Bleiben alle
 Einstellungen nach dem Schließen erhalten?


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Re: [Talk-de] Frage zum JOSM Windows Installer und -Webstart

2013-08-19 Thread tumsi




 Original-Nachricht 
Betreff: [Talk-de] Frage zum JOSM Windows Installer und -Webstart
Datum: Sun Aug 18 2013 21:44:48 GMT+0200
Von: Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de
An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org


Windows:
Wenn eine neue JOSM Version vorliegt, wird man zwecks Update auf diese
Seite geführt:
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/De:WikiStart
Der dort befindliche JOSM Windows Installer ist recht groß. Ändett
sich bei einem Update auf eine neue Version mehr als nur JOSM.exe?

JOSM wird recht oft uupgedated. Wäre es nicht sinnvoll, wenn neben dem
großen JOSM Windows Installer ein kleiner JOSM Windows Updater
angeboten würde, der nur die benötigten Teile (möglicherweise nur
JOSM.exe) austauscht?


Das kannst Du auch manuell machen. Ich lade nie die exe herunter sondern 
nur die josm-tested.jar und ersetze damit die entsprechende Datei im 
JOSM Installationsverzeichnis. Meines Wissens macht der Installer auch 
nichts anderes...


 Webstart:
 Zu diesen Fragen habe ich auf
 http://www.java.com/de/download/faq/java_webstart.xml
 keine Antwort gefunden.

 Läuft JOSM hier lokal auf dem PC oder einem Webserver, wie der Name
 vermuten lassen könnte? Wenn letzteres, auf welchem Webserver? Können
 Plugins wie bei der Windows Version installiert werden? Bleiben alle
 Einstellungen nach dem Schließen erhalten?

Ergänzend zu der Antwort von jotpe sei noch gesagt: JOSM läuft dann bei 
Dir lokal auf dem Rechner.



Viele Grüße,
Constanze

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[Talk-de] Deutschland Grenze Relation 1.111.111

2013-08-19 Thread Jörg Frings-Fürst

Moin,

kann sich mal jemand die Grenze von Deutschland (Rel. 1.111.111)
anschauen? 

Ich sehe da ein großes Loch im Westen. Zwischen Holland und Frankreich
fehlt einiges.

Beim schnellen Durchschauen der Änderungen ist mir jetzt nichts
gravierendes aufgefallen.

CU

Jörg




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Re: [Talk-de] Anwender in der Nähe

2013-08-19 Thread Florian Lohoff


Hi,

On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 11:55:48PM +0200, Jo wrote:
 Was ich mich schon einige Zeit erwunsche is die Möglichkeit eine Botschaft
 zu erfassen, dann zu sagen in welches Gebiet der relevant ist. In zweiter
 Schritt, würde sie dann von jemand nachgelesen und wenn Openstreetmap
 related und kein Spam weitergeschikt. Dann brauchen wir natürlich
 Freiwilliger die die in verschiedene Sprachen nachlesen wollen/konnen.

Quasi News/Blog/RSS feed mit regionalbezug. Den kann dann jeder User
sich pollen oder eben wenn zustimmung existiert ja auch per mail
bekommen. (Ich moechte bitte mails)

Man müsste das Diary erweitern - Zum einen um nur regional sichtbare
Eintraege und um Notifications für eben in dieser Region ansässige oder
aktive mapper.

Flo
PS: man müsste - Delegativ :)
-- 
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutschland Grenze Relation 1.111.111

Jörg Frings-Fürst wrote
 Ich sehe da ein großes Loch im Westen. Zwischen Holland und Frankreich
 fehlt einiges.
 Beim schnellen Durchschauen der Änderungen ist mir jetzt nichts
 gravierendes aufgefallen.

Hi Jörg, was hast du denn für Probleme mit meinem Baby? (1)
Von der Geometrie ist/war das teil prima im Schuß. Habe gerade noch eine
Auswertung (2) gefahren, die ohne 111 nicht funktionieren würde.

Könnte es sein, dass du dir die Rel im Josm anschaust? Der hat nämlich
Probleme, Relationen, die aus mehreren Sub-Relationen bestehen, vernünftig
darzustellen.

Gruss
walter

1) Ich hab das Teil vor langer Zeit erfunden und erfreue mich immer noch
dran. Am meisten Arbeit war es, die Id 111 zu schnappen als die gerade
vergeben wurde ;)
2) http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=355378#p355378







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Re: [Talk-de] Deutschland Grenze Relation 1.111.111

2013-08-19 Thread Jörg Frings-Fürst

Hallo Walter,

ja ich habe es mit josm angeschaut. ;-((

Werde dann mal schauen ob es dazu schon einen Bugreport gibt.

Danke.

CU Jörg

Am Montag, den 19.08.2013, 02:32 -0700 schrieb Walter Nordmann:
 Jörg Frings-Fürst wrote
  Ich sehe da ein großes Loch im Westen. Zwischen Holland und Frankreich
  fehlt einiges.
  Beim schnellen Durchschauen der Änderungen ist mir jetzt nichts
  gravierendes aufgefallen.
 
 Hi Jörg, was hast du denn für Probleme mit meinem Baby? (1)
 Von der Geometrie ist/war das teil prima im Schuß. Habe gerade noch eine
 Auswertung (2) gefahren, die ohne 111 nicht funktionieren würde.
 
 Könnte es sein, dass du dir die Rel im Josm anschaust? Der hat nämlich
 Probleme, Relationen, die aus mehreren Sub-Relationen bestehen, vernünftig
 darzustellen.
 
 Gruss
 walter

[...]
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[Talk-de] PostgreSQL nach pbf

2013-08-19 Thread Jörg Frings-Fürst

Hallo,

gibt es eine einfach Möglichkeit aus einer Postgresql Datenbank im
Snapshotschema einen durch ein Polygon abgegrenzten Bereich in ein
pfb-File zu schreiben?

Ich habe bis jetzt nur osmosis mit einem Zwischenschritt über eine
bounding-box gefunden.

$OSMOSIS \
--read-pgsql host=XX database=XX user=XX password=XX \
--dbb left=6.56 right=5.69 top=50.20 bottom=49.43 completeWays=true \
--bounding-polygon file=LU.poly completeWays=true \
--wb file=LU.osm.pbf 

CU 

Jörg

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Re: [Talk-de] Deutschland Grenze Relation 1.111.111

Jörg Frings-Fürst wrote
 Hallo Walter,
 
 ja ich habe es mit josm angeschaut. ;-((
 
 Werde dann mal schauen ob es dazu schon einen Bugreport gibt.

danke, hätte ich auch schon lange machen sollen. 
Es liegt wohl daran, dass er Objekte in aufsteigender Folge runterlädt und
einen weiteren Durchgang machen müsste um auch noch die anderen zu
erwischen. Das wohlmöglich noch rekursiv.

Gruss
walter





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Re: [Talk-de] Deutschland Grenze Relation 1.111.111

nö, parallel -  ein ziemlich kühner Versuch meinerseits wurde damals eiskalt
abgeschmettert. Hab die Sache danach etwas aus den Augen verloren, sorge
aber dafür, dass die Rel technisch sauber bleibt.

Hauptproblem war, dass alle Anwendungen, die was mit den Rohdaten der
Grenzen machen, auf rekursive Algorithmen umgestellt werden müssten.

Gruss
walter



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Re: [Talk-de] Deutschland Grenze Relation 1.111.111

2013-08-19 Thread fly

On 19.08.2013 18:06, Walter Nordmann wrote:
 nö, parallel -  ein ziemlich kühner Versuch meinerseits wurde damals eiskalt
 abgeschmettert. Hab die Sache danach etwas aus den Augen verloren, sorge
 aber dafür, dass die Rel technisch sauber bleibt.
 
 Hauptproblem war, dass alle Anwendungen, die was mit den Rohdaten der
 Grenzen machen, auf rekursive Algorithmen umgestellt werden müssten.

Ich kann die multiline relation immer öfter verwenden und wenn ich mir
die aktuelle Diskusion auf tagging@ über Täler und Gebirge bzw. sonstige
Region anschaue frage ich mich wie es denn sonst möglich sein soll die
Kontinente zu taggen.

Aber auch im Microbereich komme ich nich ohne sie aus, oder wie taggt
Ihr eine Stützmauer mit darauf eine Hecke mit Zaun ?


cu
fly


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[Talk-de] Bundestagswahl 2013, Wahlkreise in OSM

2013-08-19 Thread Harald Schwarz


Hallo,
ich habe angefangen die 299 Wahlkreise für die Bundestagswahl 2013 in OSM 
einzutragen.

Die Eingabe erfolgte in folgender Weise:
Zuerst habe ich für jeden Wahlkreis eine Relation angelegt und in diese als 
Mitglieder die
in OSM schon fast vollständig vorliegenden Grenzrelationen eingetragen, aus 
denen sich ein
Wahlkreis zusammensetzt.  Wahlkreis 1, Flensburg - Schleswig setzt sich zum 
Beispiel zusammen,
Aus der Stadt Flensburg und dem Landkreis Schleswig. Andere Wahlkreis sind 
identisch mit einem Landkreis, wieder andere bestehen aus n Gemeinden aus zwei 
nebeneinanander leigenden Wahlkreisen.

Es konnten auf diese Weise schon viele Wahlkreise in OSM erfasst werden. Aber 
bei einigen Großstädten fehlen noch die notwendigen Stadt-Bezirks- und  
Stadt-Teil-Grenzen.

Um nun für eine Wahlkreis eine Grenzrelation zu erzeugen, war es notwendig, die 
Aussengrenze der beteiligten
adminstrativen Grenzen eines Wahlkreises zu ermitteln.

Dafür wurden alle Grenzwege der administrativen Teilgebiete eines Wahlkreise 
mittels der Overpass-Api abgefragt.
Binnengrenzen unterscheiden sich von Aussengrenzen, dadurch, dass sie zu zwei 
Verwaltungseinheiten gehören und damit bei einer Zählung mehrfach vorkommen. 
Aussengrenzen kommen bei diesem Verfahren nur einmal vor.

Die so gewonnenen Aussengrenzen wurden dann für jeden Wahlkreis mittels JOSM in 
die richtige Reihenfolge gebracht und in den OSM-Datenbestand eingefügt.

Es sind schon sehr viele der 299 Wahlkreise eingetragen. Bei einigen ist es 
noch nicht möglich, diese aus den OSM-Daten zu generieren, da die betreffenden 
Grenzen in OSM noch nicht erfast sind. (Meist fehlende Stadtteilgrenzen)

Nur zwei Wahlkreise in Berlin stimmen nicht mit den bei OSM üblichen 
administrativen Grenzen überein. Hier müssen neue Grenzwege eingetragen werden.

Bei einigen Wahlkreisen muss ich noch nacharbeiten.

Ich habe angefangen eine Wiki-Seite für OSM über die Wahlkreise zu erstellen, 
aber da muss noch einiges klarer dargestellt werden.  Ihr findet die Infos 
unter: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Wahlkreise

Liebe Grüße
  Harald
  black_bike

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Re: [Talk-de] Bundestagswahl 2013, Wahlkreise in OSM

naja, begeistert bin ich gerade nicht. 
Bei der Election-Relation handelt es sich -mal wieder- um eine total
überflüssige Sammel-Relation. Sie enthält in Listenform alle Städte, Orte,
... die sich innerhalb der Grenze eines Wahlkreises befinden. 
Die Frage Welcher Ort liegt in welchem Wahlkreis? lässt sich wesentlich
besser durch einfach spatiale Abfrage der OSM-Daten beantworten.
Sammel-Relationen dieser Art sind a) aufwändig zu erstellen, b) oft
unvollständig, c) total unnötig.

Die Wahlkreisgrenzen als Grenz-Relationen mit vernünftigem Tagging
aufzunehmen, finde ich dagegen in Ordnung.

Normalerweise sollte man sich *vorher* an die Community wenden und nicht
kurz vor Torschluss; wohlmöglich in der Hoffnung, dass man dann die - meiner
Ansicht nach unnötige - Knochenarbeit von der Croud erledigt bekommt. Ich
werde auf jeden Fall nicht die etwa 16  fehlenden Member in meinem
Wahlkreis 178 nachtragen. Mir reicht die Wahlkreisgrenze.

Gruss
walter



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Re: [Talk-de] Bundestagswahl 2013, Wahlkreise in OSM

2013-08-19 Thread Harald Schwarz

Hallo Walter,

leider kann ich deiner Argumentation nicht zustimmen. Die von mir angelegten
Mitgliedsrelationen sind nicht total überflüssig ,sondern enthalten
Informationen, die sich allein mit einfachen spatialen Abfragen nicht
beantworten lassen.

Nehmen wir als Beispiel den von dir angeführten Wahlkreis 178, Rheingau-Taunus
- Limburg.
Er ist, wie übrigens schon die meisten anderen Wahlkreise auch; schon komplett
in OSM erfasst.
Es gibt keine 16 fehlenden Member. Die Mitglieder der Relation entsprechen
genau der Beschreibung des Wahlkreises durch
den Bundeswahlleiter. Sie enthält den Rheingau-Taunus-Kreis und vom Landkreis
Limburg-Weilburg die zehn Gemeinden
Bad Camberg, Brechen, Dornburg, Elbtal, Elz, Hadamar, Hünefelden, Limburg an
der Lahn, Selters und Waldbrunn.

Es ist wohl nicht trivial, genau diese Aufzählung mittels einer einfachen
spatialen Abfrage aus den OSM-Daten und
der Grenz-Relation zu gewinnen. Das geht nur mit erheblichem Aufwand.

Ich habe die Mitgliedsrelation auch genutzt um die Grenzrelation eines
Wahlkreises zu ermitteln. Die von mir schon geleistete, und nicht von der Croud
eingeforderte Knochenarbeit, bestand darin, die Mitgliedsrelationen anzulegen
und mit den notwendigen Mitgliedern zu füllen. Nachdem das geschen war, konnte
daraus mit einer einfachen Betrachtung der benutzten Grenzwege ermittelt
werden, welche dieser Wege die Aussengrenze des Wahlkreises bilden.
Ohne Mitgliedsrelation gäbe es also die Grenzrelationen nicht.

Ich fordere auch nichts von der Croud, sondern gebe meinen kleine Teil zum
großen Ganzen. Was übrigens nicht möglich wäre, wenn nicht schon flächendeckend
administrative Grenzen vorhanden wäremn.

Was noch fehlt, und wo wirklich Hilfe notwendig ist, ist das Eintragen von
Stadtbezirks- und Stadtteilgrenzen in einigen Großstädten. Hier ist es
notwendig, das man Quellen findet, die das Eintragen dieser Grenzen in OSM
zulassen.

Liebe Grüße
Harald
black_bike

Gesendet: Montag, 19. August 2013 um 21:52 Uhr
Von: Walter Nordmann pil...@hotmail.com
An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Bundestagswahl 2013, Wahlkreise in OSM
naja, begeistert bin ich gerade nicht.
Bei der Election-Relation handelt es sich -mal wieder- um eine total
überflüssige Sammel-Relation. Sie enthält in Listenform alle Städte, Orte,
... die sich innerhalb der Grenze eines Wahlkreises befinden.
Die Frage Welcher Ort liegt in welchem Wahlkreis? lässt sich wesentlich
besser durch einfach spatiale Abfrage der OSM-Daten beantworten.
Sammel-Relationen dieser Art sind a) aufwändig zu erstellen, b) oft
unvollständig, c) total unnötig.

Die Wahlkreisgrenzen als Grenz-Relationen mit vernünftigem Tagging
aufzunehmen, finde ich dagegen in Ordnung.

Normalerweise sollte man sich *vorher* an die Community wenden und nicht
kurz vor Torschluss; wohlmöglich in der Hoffnung, dass man dann die - meiner
Ansicht nach unnötige - Knochenarbeit von der Croud erledigt bekommt. Ich
werde auf jeden Fall nicht die etwa 16 fehlenden Member in meinem
Wahlkreis 178 nachtragen. Mir reicht die Wahlkreisgrenze.

Gruss
walter

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Re: [Talk-de] Bundestagswahl 2013, Wahlkreise in OSM

2013-08-19 Thread Florian Lohoff

Hi Harald,

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:46:25PM +0200, Harald Schwarz wrote:
 Hallo Walter,
 
 leider kann ich deiner Argumentation nicht zustimmen. Die von mir
 angelegten Mitgliedsrelationen sind nicht total überflüssig ,sondern
 enthalten Informationen, die sich allein mit einfachen spatialen
 Abfragen nicht beantworten lassen.

Ich muss Walter beipflichten - Reine Sammel-relation wie von dir untern
aufgefuehrte Liste von Gemeinden lassen sich genauso OSM Datenbank
extern ablegen und bei Bedarf die Grenzen zusammensetzen, es Bedarf 
dazu keiner relation um dieses zu tun.

Relationen sind dafuer gedacht Beziehungen von Elementen untereinander
zu beschreiben. Node A ist die Blitze die auf der Straße B in Richtung
C bei Geschwindigkeit D ein Foto macht.

Das ganze macht deshalb Sinn das in relationen abzulegen weil sich
eben NodeIDs oder WayIDs aendern koennen.

Wenn ich aber Gemeindeschluessel habe, oder Namen dann kann ich eben
die Grenzen auch anders als mit relationen Adressieren.

Ich will nicht sagen das die Arbeit falsch oder umsonst war, aber die
Daten haben genau 2-3 Monate relevanz danach besteht die Gefahr das sie
einfach vor sich hin erodieren.

Das das ein einfacherere Weg ist als ein Excel zu pflegen mag ja sein.

Wie versionierst du denn eigentlich die Wahlkreise? D.h. wenn sich ein
Wahlkreis von BTW 2013 zu 2017 aendert?

Aenderst du dann die relation oder kommt eine neue WK178 BTW 2017 dazu?

Ohne Versionierung ist das ganze ja wirklich in 3 Monaten obsolet
wie das mappen von Autos.

Flo
-- 
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Re: [Talk-de] Bundestagswahl 2013, Wahlkreise in OSM

Harald Schwarz wrote
Es ist wohl nicht trivial, genau diese Aufzählung mittels einer einfachen
spatialen Abfrage aus den OSM-Daten und
der Grenz-Relation zu gewinnen. Das geht nur mit erheblichem Aufwand.

naja, ich hatte vorhin mal 5 Minuten Zeit:

... Ohne Mitgliedsrelation gäbe es also die Grenzrelationen nicht

über deine Arbeitsstechnik (was war zuerst da - Henne oder Ei?) mag ich
nicht urteilen. Allerdings erschienen mir die Sammel-Relationen nicht als
Mittel zum Zweck der Erfassung der Wahlkreisgrenzen, sondern als von dir
gewünschte und auch so in OSM zu verbleibende Relationen.

Ich habe vorhin auch etwas gestutzt, weil in meinem Wahlkreis anstelle von
27 Städten nur 11 Member vorhanden waren. Inzwischen ist mir klar, der RTK
deckt fast die Hälfte der Fläche ab und ist komplett drin. Aber was sollen
dann die Einzelflächen im Wahlkreis wenn ich nicht nicht mal alle Städte
sondern ein Mischmasch aus Kreisen und Städten vorfinde? Damit kann man noch
nicht mal eine vernünftige Auswertung fahren - man müsste doch auf die
Stadtgrenzen zurückgreifen. Somit machen diese Sammel-Relationen noch
weniger Sinn. Ich würde die nach getaner Arbeit - also jetzt - löschen.

Da sollte es eigentlich verbindliche und legale Infos bei den Wahlämtern
oder beim Bund geben.

Gruss
walter

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[Talk-de] Velomap für Linux-Nutzer?

2013-08-19 Thread Manuel Reimer


Hallo,

ich wollte mir gerne testhalber die Velomap auf mein Garmin packen.

Bisher konnte ich aber nur EXE-Dateien zum Runterladen finden. Wo finde 
ich das Image, das ich einfach auf die SD-Karte kopieren kann?


Danke im Voraus

Gruß

Manuel


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Re: [Talk-de] Velomap für Linux-Nutzer?

2013-08-19 Thread Henning Scholland

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Versuch einfach mal, die exe-Datei zu entpacken.

Henning

Am 19.08.2013 23:26, schrieb Manuel Reimer:
 Hallo,
 
 ich wollte mir gerne testhalber die Velomap auf mein Garmin
 packen.
 
 Bisher konnte ich aber nur EXE-Dateien zum Runterladen finden. Wo
 finde ich das Image, das ich einfach auf die SD-Karte kopieren
 kann?
 
 Danke im Voraus
 
 Gruß
 
 Manuel
 
 
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Re: [Talk-de] Velomap für Linux-Nutzer?

2013-08-19 Thread Dirk Sohler

Manuel Reimer schrieb:
 Bisher konnte ich aber nur EXE-Dateien zum Runterladen finden. Wo
 finde ich das Image, das ich einfach auf die SD-Karte kopieren kann?

Aktuell wohl gar nicht, vgl. Abschnitt „A: Installing Maps to Computer“

http://www.velomap.org/tutorials/enbeginners-starting-guide-dewo-beginnen-tutorial/

Klingt für mich nach „So geht es für Windows. Für Linux: Entpackt mal
die exe, und probiert selbst, oh, und nehmt Wine.“

Da es für meine Zwecke auf die Freizeitkarte tut, die schon als
Fertiges Image runterladbar ist, habe ich Velomap nach dem ersten
angucken der Seite links liegen gelassen.

Grüße,
Dirk

-- 
Local time :: Ortszeit :: DE-HH
2013-08-19T23:52:02+0200


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[Talk-de] Anzahl lanes bei forward und backward und turn

2013-08-19 Thread Gertrud Simson

Hallo,

ich habe gestern ein bisschen mit lanes und turn:lanes gespielt. Dabei habe
ich diese teilweise z.B. folgendermaßen eingetragen:

lanes=3
lanes:*backward*=1
turn:lanes:*forward*=through|right

oder:

lanes=5
lanes:*backward*=3
turn:lanes:*forward*=through|right
turn:lanes:*backward*=left|through|right



In den Beispielen fehlt also jeweils lanes:forward=2
Dies ergibt sich jedoch theoretisch im Normalfall aus den ersten beiden
Zeilen. Wenn ich mir im Wiki hier:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:lanes#Beispiele  das vorletzte
und das drittletzte Beispiel anschaue, frage ich mich, ob es doch sinnvoll
ist generell immer lanes:forward=* *und* lanes:backward=* anzugeben
(natürlich vorrausgesetzt es ist keine Einbahnstraße wie z.B. bei
Autobahnen).

Ist das sinnvoll oder unnötig?

VG
Klumbumbus
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[Talk-de] Hack-Weekend Karlsruhe 5./6. Oktober

2013-08-19 Thread Frederik Ramm


Hallo,

   im Oktober ist wieder ein Hack-Weekend in Karlsruhe:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Karlsruhe_Hack_Weekend_October_2013

Wie immer sind alle herzlich willkommen!

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [Talk-de] Velomap für Linux-Nutzer?

2013-08-19 Thread Tim Michelsen

 Bisher konnte ich aber nur EXE-Dateien zum Runterladen finden. Wo finde
 ich das Image, das ich einfach auf die SD-Karte kopieren kann?
https://github.com/btittelbach/openmtbmap_openvelomap_linux

also: aber habe ich nicht getested:
https://github.com/quatauta/openmtbmap-scripts
https://github.com/rpoisel/openmtbmap-py



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[Talk-it] Sentieri su mappe sul territorio

2013-08-19 Thread emmexx

Ho percorso nei giorni scorsi (ma non solo) dei sentieri che non hanno
segnavia standard.
I segnavia sono in genere generici (Linea Cadorna) ma vi sono vari
itinerari e i segnavia non li distinguono.
I percorsi sono presenti su mappe cartacee e su mappe poste su cartelli
presenti all'inizio o alla fine degli itinerari.

Non mi e' chiaro, dopo precedenti discussioni su argomenti simili, se e'
lecito inserire questi percorsi in osm.

grazie
maxx

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Re: [Talk-it] Qualità edifici importati

2013-08-19 Thread girarsi_liste


Il 19/08/2013 11:48, Simone Saviolo ha scritto:

Ciao a tutti,

scusate lo sfogo. Sto guardando Varazze (SV), e più edifici vedo (con
source=Regione Liguria), più mi chiedo cosa si sono fumati in Regione.
Edifici mancanti, storti, topografie palesemente inventate, suddivisioni
fantasiose tra edifici con muri in comune, addirittura pareti sporgenti
o rientranti che decisamente non esistono! Mi viene da chiedermi se è
davvero così interessante avere dati del genere nella mappa! Senza
contare le considerazioni sulla serietà della fonte...


Il principio degli open data è proprio questo, poter vedere ciò che fino 
a poco prima veniva negato, per cui, se la regione ha fatto cavolate, la 
critica è di per sè un motivo per cui gli open data funzionano, se tu 
non sapessi niente, non penseresti male... ed a volta a 
pensar male ci si azzecca... :)



--
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Re: [Talk-it] Qualità edifici importati

2013-08-19 Thread Leonardo

Chi è che ha effettuato l'import? Comunque guardando il centro di 
Varazze non vedo questi problemi :/ Sono anche allineati 
sufficientemente con la PCN2006, potresti indicarmi una zona dove ci 
sono tutti questi problemi?


Leonardo

Il 19/08/2013 11:48, Simone Saviolo ha scritto:

Ciao a tutti,

scusate lo sfogo. Sto guardando Varazze (SV), e più edifici vedo (con 
source=Regione Liguria), più mi chiedo cosa si sono fumati in Regione. 
Edifici mancanti, storti, topografie palesemente inventate, 
suddivisioni fantasiose tra edifici con muri in comune, addirittura 
pareti sporgenti o rientranti che decisamente non esistono! Mi viene 
da chiedermi se è davvero così interessante avere dati del genere 
nella mappa! Senza contare le considerazioni sulla serietà della fonte...


Ciao,

Simone


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Re: [Talk-it] Qualità edifici importati

2013-08-19 Thread sabas88

Il giorno 19 agosto 2013 11:48, Simone Saviolo
simone.savi...@gmail.comha scritto:

 Ciao a tutti,


Ciao Simone,


 scusate lo sfogo. Sto guardando Varazze (SV), e più edifici vedo (con
 source=Regione Liguria), più mi chiedo cosa si sono fumati in Regione.
 Edifici mancanti, storti, topografie palesemente inventate, suddivisioni
 fantasiose tra edifici con muri in comune, addirittura pareti sporgenti o
 rientranti che decisamente non esistono! Mi viene da chiedermi se è davvero
 così interessante avere dati del genere nella mappa! Senza contare le
 considerazioni sulla serietà della fonte...


Questo è quello che ha passato il convento :D

Generalmente sono quasi decenti, ma ci sono dei casi come quelli che citi
ed altri, ma ho pensato che importando il possibile (si sono persi per
strada interi fogli della ctr, tipo nel savonese, spezzino e nord di
genova) forse si motivava ad intervenire sulla mappa chi conosce le zone.
(sono errori di geometria, non di posizionamenti errati)

Ho passato un mese importando manualmente gli edifici del centro storico di
Genova ed aprendo certi spazi perchè non risultavano dei vicoli... Però il
risultato alla fine è che sono riuscito a mettere a posto molte cose
mancanti.

Le altre aree invece le abbiamo importate diversi mesi fa una via l'altra
con le intenzioni di cui sopra.


  Ciao,

 Simone


Ciao,
Stefano



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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione italiana della nuova schermata di benvenuto OSM

2013-08-19 Thread Leonardo

Quinta revisione, trasformato tutto da voi-tu. Questa potrebbe essere 
quella definitiva quindi vi invito a dare un vostro parere e se tutti 
sono d'accorto, la inoltriamo a chi di dovere :)


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nW-KNzGZ788yoM7BPxujCkVAb3gGHpOcuvyfqLP1lw8/edit?usp=sharing

Forza con i commenti!

Leonardo

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Re: [Talk-it] Qualità edifici importati

2013-08-19 Thread Mario Pichetti


Il 19/08/2013 12:08, sabas88 ha scritto:




Il giorno 19 agosto 2013 11:48, Simone Saviolo 
simone.savi...@gmail.com mailto:simone.savi...@gmail.com ha scritto:


Ciao a tutti,


Ciao Simone,

scusate lo sfogo. Sto guardando Varazze (SV), e più edifici vedo
(con source=Regione Liguria), più mi chiedo cosa si sono fumati in
Regione. Edifici mancanti, storti, topografie palesemente
inventate, suddivisioni fantasiose tra edifici con muri in comune,
addirittura pareti sporgenti o rientranti che decisamente non
esistono! Mi viene da chiedermi se è davvero così interessante
avere dati del genere nella mappa! Senza contare le considerazioni
sulla serietà della fonte...


Questo è quello che ha passato il convento :D

Generalmente sono quasi decenti, ma ci sono dei casi come quelli che 
citi ed altri, ma ho pensato che importando il possibile (si sono 
persi per strada interi fogli della ctr, tipo nel savonese, spezzino e 
nord di genova) forse si motivava ad intervenire sulla mappa chi 
conosce le zone. (sono errori di geometria, non di posizionamenti errati)


Ho passato un mese importando manualmente gli edifici del centro 
storico di Genova ed aprendo certi spazi perchè non risultavano dei 
vicoli... Però il risultato alla fine è che sono riuscito a mettere a 
posto molte cose mancanti.


Le altre aree invece le abbiamo importate diversi mesi fa una via 
l'altra con le intenzioni di cui sopra.


Ciao,

Simone


Ciao,
Stefano


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http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14817479

Ho visto, Simone, effettivamente gli edifici sarebbero da rivedere...un 
tantinino:-)


Basandomi su quello che vedo da satellite, Bing, Google, ecc. non hanno 
niente a che vedere con la realtà.


Urge un restiling:-) :-), possibilmente effettuato da mappatori del posto.

Gli import sono una bella cosa, ma IMHO, richiederebbero una valutazione 
adeguata.


Saluti a tutti, Mario

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Re: [Talk-it] Qualità edifici importati

2013-08-19 Thread Simone Saviolo

Il giorno 19 agosto 2013 12:08, sabas88 saba...@gmail.com ha scritto:




 Il giorno 19 agosto 2013 11:48, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.comha 
 scritto:

 Ciao a tutti,


 Ciao Simone,


 scusate lo sfogo. Sto guardando Varazze (SV), e più edifici vedo (con
 source=Regione Liguria), più mi chiedo cosa si sono fumati in Regione.
 Edifici mancanti, storti, topografie palesemente inventate, suddivisioni
 fantasiose tra edifici con muri in comune, addirittura pareti sporgenti o
 rientranti che decisamente non esistono! Mi viene da chiedermi se è davvero
 così interessante avere dati del genere nella mappa! Senza contare le
 considerazioni sulla serietà della fonte...


 Questo è quello che ha passato il convento :D


Lo so... ma che razza di convento abbiamo?! :-D


 Generalmente sono quasi decenti, ma ci sono dei casi come quelli che citi
 ed altri, ma ho pensato che importando il possibile (si sono persi per
 strada interi fogli della ctr, tipo nel savonese, spezzino e nord di
 genova) forse si motivava ad intervenire sulla mappa chi conosce le zone.
 (sono errori di geometria, non di posizionamenti errati)


Per carità, non è che rovinino la mappa, ma mi urta lo stesso vederli. A
Vercelli abbiamo disegnato gli edifici uno a uno; non pretendo di dire che
il catasto potrebbe buttar via le sue mappe e usare i nostri disegni :-D
però insomma, la qualità è un'altra.

Occhio, non intendo solo dire che non dovremmo avere dati così
approssimativi in OSM, mi stupisco proprio del fatto che la Regione abbia
dati del genere.


  Ho passato un mese importando manualmente gli edifici del centro storico
 di Genova ed aprendo certi spazi perchè non risultavano dei vicoli... Però
 il risultato alla fine è che sono riuscito a mettere a posto molte cose
 mancanti.

 Le altre aree invece le abbiamo importate diversi mesi fa una via l'altra
 con le intenzioni di cui sopra.


Eh, li si rifiniranno allora! Io non sono sul posto, conosco bene le strade
perché ci sono andato in vacanza per 14 anni, ma non posso mettermi a fare
rilevamenti di persona adesso.

Ciao,

Simone
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Re: [Talk-it] Qualità edifici importati

2013-08-19 Thread sabas88

Il giorno 19 agosto 2013 12:41, Simone Saviolo
simone.savi...@gmail.comha scritto:


 Questo è quello che ha passato il convento :D


 Lo so... ma che razza di convento abbiamo?! :-D


Ho fatto una mappa di prova dei torrenti di Genova con il reticolo
idrografico per pubblicarla in un gruppo FB che seguo ed alcuni che erano
intervenuti durante l'alluvione hanno commentato citando diversi torrenti
mancanti, al che ho rimandato l'import :D


 Generalmente sono quasi decenti, ma ci sono dei casi come quelli che citi
 ed altri, ma ho pensato che importando il possibile (si sono persi per
 strada interi fogli della ctr, tipo nel savonese, spezzino e nord di
 genova) forse si motivava ad intervenire sulla mappa chi conosce le zone.
 (sono errori di geometria, non di posizionamenti errati)


 Per carità, non è che rovinino la mappa, ma mi urta lo stesso vederli. A
 Vercelli abbiamo disegnato gli edifici uno a uno; non pretendo di dire che
 il catasto potrebbe buttar via le sue mappe e usare i nostri disegni :-D
 però insomma, la qualità è un'altra.


Cavolo che obbrobrio! Adesso mi registro perchè non ce la faccio più a
vedere una mappa con quegli errori (citazione dal futuro)


 Occhio, non intendo solo dire che non dovremmo avere dati così
 approssimativi in OSM, mi stupisco proprio del fatto che la Regione abbia
 dati del genere.


  Ho passato un mese importando manualmente gli edifici del centro
 storico di Genova ed aprendo certi spazi perchè non risultavano dei
 vicoli... Però il risultato alla fine è che sono riuscito a mettere a posto
 molte cose mancanti.

 Le altre aree invece le abbiamo importate diversi mesi fa una via l'altra
 con le intenzioni di cui sopra.


 Eh, li si rifiniranno allora! Io non sono sul posto, conosco bene le
 strade perché ci sono andato in vacanza per 14 anni, ma non posso mettermi
 a fare rilevamenti di persona adesso.


Ci basta un edit approssimativo :P


 Ciao,

 Simone

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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione italiana della nuova schermata di benvenuto OSM

2013-08-19 Thread Mario Pichetti


Il 19/08/2013 12:12, Leonardo ha scritto:
Quinta revisione, trasformato tutto da voi-tu. Questa potrebbe essere 
quella definitiva quindi vi invito a dare un vostro parere e se tutti 
sono d'accorto, la inoltriamo a chi di dovere :)


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nW-KNzGZ788yoM7BPxujCkVAb3gGHpOcuvyfqLP1lw8/edit?usp=sharing 



Forza con i commenti!

Leonardo

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Hai fatto un ottimo lavoro, ma se devo proprio dare il mio parere, ci 
sono ancora molte lacune.


Benvenuto su OpenStreetMap, la mappa libera e modificabile del mondo. 
Ora che ti*se**i* registrato, *sei* pronto per iniziare a mappare. *Qui 
*troverai una guida rapida con le informazioni più importanti da 
conoscereecc.



Ciao Mario.





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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione italiana della nuova schermata di benvenuto OSM

2013-08-19 Thread Leonardo


Ciao,

proprio per questo è necessario commentare sul documento :D

Comunque la frase originale è questa:

Welcome to OpenStreetMap, the free and editable map of the world. Now 
that you're signed up, you're all set to get started mapping. Here's a 
quick guide with the most important things you need to know.


La ripetizione è inevitabile purtroppo se vogliamo mantenere il testo 
originale. Qualche suggerimento?


Leonardo

Il 19/08/2013 13:16, Mario Pichetti ha scritto:

Il 19/08/2013 12:12, Leonardo ha scritto:
Quinta revisione, trasformato tutto da voi-tu. Questa potrebbe 
essere quella definitiva quindi vi invito a dare un vostro parere e 
se tutti sono d'accorto, la inoltriamo a chi di dovere :)


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nW-KNzGZ788yoM7BPxujCkVAb3gGHpOcuvyfqLP1lw8/edit?usp=sharing 



Forza con i commenti!

Leonardo

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Hai fatto un ottimo lavoro, ma se devo proprio dare il mio parere, ci 
sono ancora molte lacune.


Benvenuto su OpenStreetMap, la mappa libera e modificabile del mondo. 
Ora che ti*se**i* registrato, *sei* pronto per iniziare a mappare. 
*Qui *troverai una guida rapida con le informazioni più importanti da 
conoscereecc.



Ciao Mario.







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Re: [Talk-it] Qualità edifici importati

2013-08-19 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



Il giorno 19/ago/2013, alle ore 12:41, Simone Saviolo 
simone.savi...@gmail.com ha scritto:

 Per carità, non è che rovinino la mappa, ma mi urta lo stesso vederli.


secondo me i dati importati se non sono buoni danneggiano OSM in generale, 
perché chi comincia  e si guarda cosa hanno fatto gli altri o non comincia 
proprio a mappare (effetto contrario rispetto ad una mappa vuota) oppure 
eventualmente si adatta a ciò che vede.

ciao,
Martin



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Re: [Talk-it] Sentieri su mappe sul territorio

2013-08-19 Thread emmexx

Il 08/19/2013 01:46 PM, Dario Zontini scrisse:
 Personalmante se trovo un sentiero con dei cartelli all'inizio e fine,
 non saranno sentieri ufficiali CAI ma qualche ente (ufficio turistico,
 comune, parco, ecc...) propongono quel'itinerario rendendolo ufficiale
 e pertanto anche solo  a livello locale è un percorso conosciuto.

Il problema, forse avrei dovuto chiarire meglio, risiede nella natura di
questi itinerari, fatti da tratti di diversa tipologia. Non sempre si
tratta del tipico sentiero di montagna che si imbocca e ti porta a
destinazione, senza bivi o altro che renda non univoco quel percorso.

Nel mio caso, senza il riferimento alla mappa ci si perderebbe di sicuro
(anche con la mappa a volte ci si perde). E sull'utilizzo di mappe prive
di licenza esplicita compatibile con la odbl, la lista si e' espressa
piu' volte contro.

grazie
maxx

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[Talk-it] Aiuto per funzione di JOSM

2013-08-19 Thread Giuseppe Amici


Nella situazione di linee sovrapposte (ad esempio aree adiacenti),
in JOSM selezionando il segmento comune si ottiene la selezione  di una
sola delle aree interessate.
In questa situazione esiste un modo per passare all'altra area che ha il
segmento in comune?
Grazie dell'interessamento
Beppe


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Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto per funzione di JOSM

2013-08-19 Thread Simone Saviolo

Il giorno 19 agosto 2013 16:14, Giuseppe Amici
giuseppeam...@virgilio.itha scritto:


 Nella situazione di linee sovrapposte (ad esempio aree adiacenti),
 in JOSM selezionando il segmento comune si ottiene la selezione  di una
 sola delle aree interessate.
 In questa situazione esiste un modo per passare all'altra area che ha il
 segmento in comune?
 Grazie dell'interessamento
 Beppe


Sì, c'è: clicca col tasto centrale (o con la rotellina, è lo stesso).

Ciao,

Simone
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Re: [Talk-it] Qualità edifici importati

2013-08-19 Thread Leonardo Frassetto

Secondo me la verità sta nel mezzo: una zona senza niente non invoglia per
nulla a migliorare (soprattutto ricalcare gli edifici dalle ortofoto), ma
una zona caricata con dati raffazzonati fa sprecare tempo nel sistemare gli
errori di import.

È per questo che nei miei import nel Veneto degli edifici e degli utilizzi
del suolo sto molto attento alla procedura per caricare il riquadro nella
maniera più pulita e allineata possibile con la realtà.

Leonardo


Il giorno 19 agosto 2013 15:13, Martin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.comha scritto:



 Il giorno 19/ago/2013, alle ore 12:41, Simone Saviolo 
 simone.savi...@gmail.com ha scritto:

  Per carità, non è che rovinino la mappa, ma mi urta lo stesso vederli.


 secondo me i dati importati se non sono buoni danneggiano OSM in generale,
 perché chi comincia  e si guarda cosa hanno fatto gli altri o non
 comincia proprio a mappare (effetto contrario rispetto ad una mappa vuota)
 oppure eventualmente si adatta a ciò che vede.

 ciao,
 Martin



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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione italiana della nuova schermata di benvenuto OSM

2013-08-19 Thread Leonardo Frassetto

Era per far parte di quel gruppo di lingue presenti al debutto della nuova
pagina di benvenuto :)


Il giorno 19 agosto 2013 15:00, Damjan Gerl dam...@damjan.net ha scritto:

 Solo una nota: tutta la traduzione si può fare tramite translatewiki

 questo il link:
 http://translatewiki.net/w/i.**php?title=Special:Translate**
 group=out-osm-0-alllanguage=**itfilter=action=allhttp://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translategroup=out-osm-0-alllanguage=itfilter=action=all

 Ciao
 Damjan


 19.08.2013 - 13:34 - Leonardo:

 Con google docs ho paura di no, bisognerebbe usare transifex o servizi
 simili :(

 Comunque ho aggiunto il testo integrale in inglese sul fondo del
 documento per riferimento.

 Leonardo

 Il 19/08/2013 13:28, Francesco Pelullo ha scritto:


 Si, penso sarebbe più immediato se dividessimo il googledoc in due
 colonne. In quella di sinistra metterei il testo originario, ed in quella
 di destra il testo tradotto con i commenti.

 Si può fare?

 Ciao
 /niubii/

 Il giorno 19/ago/2013 13:23, Leonardo kinetocor...@gmail.com mailto:
 kinetocor...@gmail.com** ha scritto:


 Ciao,

 proprio per questo è necessario commentare sul documento :D

 Comunque la frase originale è questa:

 Welcome to OpenStreetMap, the free and editable map of the world.
 Now that you're signed up, you're all set to get started mapping.
 Here's a quick guide with the most important things you need to
 know.

 La ripetizione è inevitabile purtroppo se vogliamo mantenere il
 testo originale. Qualche suggerimento?

 Leonardo

 Il 19/08/2013 13:16, Mario Pichetti ha scritto:

 Il 19/08/2013 12:12, Leonardo ha scritto:

 Quinta revisione, trasformato tutto da voi-tu. Questa potrebbe
 essere quella definitiva quindi vi invito a dare un vostro
 parere e se tutti sono d'accorto, la inoltriamo a chi di dovere :)

 https://docs.google.com/**document/d/1nW-**
 KNzGZ788yoM7BPxujCkVAb3gGHpOcu**vyfqLP1lw8/edit?usp=sharinghttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1nW-KNzGZ788yoM7BPxujCkVAb3gGHpOcuvyfqLP1lw8/edit?usp=sharing


 Forza con i commenti!

 Leonardo

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  Hai fatto un ottimo lavoro, ma se devo proprio dare il mio
 parere, ci sono ancora molte lacune.

 Benvenuto su OpenStreetMap, la mappa libera e modificabile del
 mondo. Ora che ti*se**i* registrato, *sei* pronto per iniziare a
 mappare. *Qui *troverai una guida rapida con le informazioni più

 importanti da conoscereecc.


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Re: [Talk-it] Qualità edifici importati

2013-08-19 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



Il giorno 19/ago/2013, alle ore 17:45, Leonardo Frassetto 
kinetocor...@gmail.com ha scritto:

 Secondo me la verità sta nel mezzo: una zona senza niente non invoglia per 
 nulla a migliorare


se fosse vero avremmo ancora una mappa vuota ;-)

ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Qualità edifici importati

2013-08-19 Thread Leonardo Frassetto

Riformulo meglio, una zona già con una base solida in partenza (strade
principali, poligoni degli edifici) invoglia maggiormente a portare
ulteriori migliorie a quello già presente. Gli import non servono a
inserire i microdettagli (ovvero i negozi, sentieri, fontanelle,ecc...) ma
a evitare un lavoro francamente noioso di ricalco degli edifici e degli
utilizzi del suolo. Secondo me è qui che OSM può brillare rispetto a
Google, nel livello di dettaglio dell'informazione.


Il giorno 19 agosto 2013 18:28, Martin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.comha scritto:



 Il giorno 19/ago/2013, alle ore 17:45, Leonardo Frassetto 
 kinetocor...@gmail.com ha scritto:

  Secondo me la verità sta nel mezzo: una zona senza niente non invoglia
 per nulla a migliorare


 se fosse vero avremmo ancora una mappa vuota ;-)

 ciao,
 Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Sentieri su mappe sul territorio

2013-08-19 Thread Luca Delucchi

2013/8/19 Alberto Nogaro bartosom...@yahoo.it:


 Mi sembra un caso per un tag trail_visibility con valore almeno
 intermediate. Se il tracciato lo devi ricavare dalla mappa priva di licenza
 non puoi usarlo, ma se lo hai percorso e rilevato personalmente, perché non
 inserirlo?


+1, anche se hai seguito una carta con il copyright ora quel sentiero
te lo conosci e non lo copi dalla mappa

 Ciao,
 Alberto



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Re: [Talk-it] Frecce con indicazioni

2013-08-19 Thread Luca Delucchi

2013/8/17 emmexx emm...@tiscalinet.it:


 Usare guidepost non mi sembra appropriato ma nemmeno information=board
 mi convince.

 Cosa suggerite?


di usare guidepost con historic=yes

 grazie
 maxx


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Re: [Talk-co] ¿Fotos aéreas para OSM Bogotá?

2013-08-19 Thread Ariel Nunez

Yo vi una de estas hace dos días sobrevolando la vía 40 como a 8 metros de
altura.

2013/8/16 hyan...@gmail.com hyan...@gmail.com

http://www.eltiempo.com/colombia/bogota/lanzan-plan-piloto-de-vehiculos-aereos-no-tripulados_12997962-4

Autoridades vigilarán a Bogotá con cámaras aéreas

Por: REDACCIÓN BOGOTÁ https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ElTiempo/posts |

6:14 p.m. https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ElTiempo/posts | 16 de Agosto
del 2013 https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ElTiempo/posts
[image: Drones Bogotá]

El plan piloto fue presentado este viernes. En un mes habrá resultados.
Foto: Archivo particular

La Alcaldía anunció puesta en marcha de plan piloto. Sobrevolará Ciudad
Bolívar.

Con el ánimo de mejorar la supervisión de la movilidad, la vigilancia de
las calles de Bogotá, el monitoreo de eventos masivos y el apoyo al sistema
de emergencias, el alcalde Gustavo Petro anunció este viernes el
lanzamiento de un plan piloto con Vehículos aéreos no tripulados (Vat),
dotados con cámaras de muy buena resolución, las cuales serán monitoreadas
desde un centro especial.

Las pequeñas aeronaves se verán en la localidad de Ciudad Bolívar y los
resultados de las pruebas se analizarán dentro de un mes y medio para
establecer el grado de eficacia del sistema.

Al final de estos estudios, si nos reportan eficiencia, serán una parte
importante de nuestro sistema 123, Sistema Civil de Emergencias de
Seguridad, señaló Petro durante una rueda de prensa en la que presentó los
Vat.

El Alcalde añadió que las imágenes captadas desde estos aparatos, guiados
a control remoto, ayudarán con los mapas y la cartografía.

Las entidades más beneficiadas con esta tecnología serán la Policía, los
Bomberos, el Fopae y la Secretaría de Movilidad.

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Re: [Talk-co] ¿Fotos aéreas para OSM Bogotá?

2013-08-19 Thread hyan...@gmail.com

Chévere.

Un marcado deseo dentro de esta comunidad siempre ha sido contar con
imágenes aéreas actualizadas. Dimos una larga batalla hace unos años para
obtenerlas desde el Gobierno; ahora los distritos (al menos el de Bogotá)
están generándolas, quizás pueda ser una puerta a tocar.

Personalmente me inclino por el DIY [0], hace poco hice un taller en
#Trewa2013 [1] para fotos aéreas con globos. Es muy sencillo y divertido
lanzarlos, las cámaras (con disparo contínuo) se consiguen desde $100.000
en Mercado Libre y, mejor aún, están las GoPro, con tan solo 75 gr. de
peso, lo que abarata el proyecto, ya que se requiere menos helio por cada
lanzamiento. Definitivamente el viento es un factor de éxito, por lo tanto
es mejor esperar por el día/hora correcto, cuando este sea inferior a los
10 Km/h (no olvide usar sus guantes).

También está la opción de adquirir UAV, 3DRobotics ofrece los ardupilots
[2] listos para volar desde USD$600. Personalmente sueño con un Sensefly
eBee [3]; sin embargo, por su precio/calidad sería más indicado para un
emprendimiento.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_it_yourself
[1]
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/115460425105245295380/albums/5910976088129231137
[2] http://ardupilot.com/
[3] http://www.sensefly.com/drones/ebee.html

El 19 de agosto de 2013 14:32, Ariel Nunez ingenieroar...@gmail.comescribió:

Yo vi una de estas hace dos días sobrevolando la vía 40 como a 8 metros de
altura.

2013/8/16 hyan...@gmail.com hyan...@gmail.com

http://www.eltiempo.com/colombia/bogota/lanzan-plan-piloto-de-vehiculos-aereos-no-tripulados_12997962-4

Autoridades vigilarán a Bogotá con cámaras aéreas

Por: REDACCIÓN BOGOTÁ https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ElTiempo/posts |

6:14 p.m. https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ElTiempo/posts | 16 de Agosto
del 2013 https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ElTiempo/posts
[image: Drones Bogotá]

El plan piloto fue presentado este viernes. En un mes habrá resultados.
Foto: Archivo particular

La Alcaldía anunció puesta en marcha de plan piloto. Sobrevolará
Ciudad Bolívar.

Las pequeñas aeronaves se verán en la localidad de Ciudad Bolívar y los
resultados de las pruebas se analizarán dentro de un mes y medio para
establecer el grado de eficacia del sistema.

El Alcalde añadió que las imágenes captadas desde estos aparatos, guiados
a control remoto, ayudarán con los mapas y la cartografía.

Las entidades más beneficiadas con esta tecnología serán la Policía, los
Bomberos, el Fopae y la Secretaría de Movilidad.

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Re: [Talk-pt] Tradução da próxima welcome page

2013-08-19 Thread Jorge Gustavo Rocha


Obrigado, Francisco.

Já fui ao translatewiki registar-me e aguardo permissão para contribuir 
com o que falta traduzir. Entretanto, as traduções que vi parecem-me 
bastante sensatas.


Abraço,

Jorge

Em 19-08-2013 15:34, f.dos.san...@free.fr escreveu:

O merge foi feito no site principal ontem :
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/commit/56fd5c4d90c7d3757fb97ff16c40aaa307ae1d22

Por isso deve ser a versão inglesa que vêm os novos inscritos.

O processo de tradução normal é reestabelecido ou seja as traduções são 
efeituadas com o translatewiki :
https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translategroup=out-osm-sitefilter=!translatedaction=translate

Vou la dar uma ajudazinha ...


- Mail original -
From: Alexandre Neto senhor.n...@gmail.com
To: Lista de discuss#227,o para Portugal talk-pt@openstreetmap.org
Date: 19/08/2013 10:41:02
Subject: Re: [Talk-pt]  Tradução da próxima welcome page




Bom dia,

Aparentemente o Welcome-2 Branch já não se encontra disponível. No master branch não 
encontro nenhuma secção Welcome page. Não percebo onde isso foi parar.


Alexandre Neto



2013/8/16 Alexandre Neto  senhor.n...@gmail.com 




Eu posso ajudar! Mas só depois de segunda-feira.

Alexandre neto
No dia 15 de Ago de 2013 10:41,  f.dos.san...@free.fr  escreveu:




Ola pessoal,

Um pedido[1] foi feito para ajudar a traduzir a futuro pagina de bem-vindo do 
site OSM :

http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/welcome.png

Por enquanto a tradução tem que ser feito por um pull request no github 
(welcome-2 branch).
A secção a traduzir é a secção “welcome-page:” :

https://github.com/osmlab/openstreetmap-website/blob/welcome-2/config/locales/en.yml#L1151-L1194

Alguém para ajudar ou deixamos os amigos Brasileiros o fazer ?


[1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-August/067830.html

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Departamento de Informática
Universidade do Minho
4710-057 Braga
Tel: +351 253604480
Fax: +351 253604471
Móvel: +351 910333888
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[Talk-pt] Limites administrativos no wiki

2013-08-19 Thread f . dos . santos

Ola,

Fiz varias alterações nas páginas do wiki dos limites administrativos, em 
resumo :

A página [1] descreve o processo de importação da CAOP em geral.
A ideia é de juntar todas as informações importantes e no final fazer uma 
versão em inglês para ser apresentada a lista impo...@openstreetmap.org

A página [2] (uma subpage da primeira) detalhe o trabalho do primeiro programa 
« caop_build ».
Será também criado outra subpage par o programa « caop_diff » quando este ficar 
mais completo.
Cada programa terá assim a sua propria página, facilitando assim a sua 
comprehensão.

Em [3] temos o estado atual dos limites administrativos, foi feito com a 
comparação entre os dados OSM (em data 2013-08-18) e os dados CAOP 2012 (usando 
o programa caop_diff). Foi criado uma subpage para cada distrito e regiões 
autônomas.

Toma nota que nessas paginas o objeto OSM (relação) indicado é o objecto que 
corresponde geometricamente a um limite administrativo CAOP (quando ela 
exista). Pode haver erro no admin_level (exemplo Açores em admin_level 5) ou 
mesmo admin_level inexistante (exemplo Vila Flor), a comparação consegue 
identificar este casos.

O nome indicado é o nome CAOP convertido pelo programa (por ordem alfabetica) o 
que pode ser diferente do nome na relação e pode aparecer um pouco estranho, 
exemplo Funchal (Santa Luzia) ou Funchal (Santa Maria Maior) no concelho do 
Funchal, se calhar era melhor só guardar Santa Luzia ou Santa Maria Maior como 
nome de freguesia.

Aguardo os vossos comentários sob o conteudo e presentação dessas páginas.

Francisco.

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Importa%C3%A7%C3%A3o_da_CAOP

[1] 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Importa%C3%A7%C3%A3o_da_CAOP/Transforma%C3%A7%C3%A3o_dos_dados

[3] 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Portugal/Limites_administrativos

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Re: [Talk-ca] App for mapping running/cycling itineraries/routing

2013-08-19 Thread Daniel Begin

Bonjour Yves,
Il y a toujours moyen d'utiliser le tag ele=* (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ele ) sur chaque coordonnée d'intérêt
mais pour ce qui est de faire apparaître la valeur aux intersections, c'est
plus une question liée au programme de rendu (rendering)...

Daniel


-Original Message-
From: Yves Moisan [mailto:ymoi...@videotron.ca] 
Sent: August-18-13 17:18
To: Gregory
Cc: talk-ca
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] App for mapping running/cycling itineraries/routing




 Z-data (or elevation data) isn't generally stored in OSM. It can kind 
 of work for points (especially peaks) but doesn't so much for ways.
 Map renderings (e.g. OpenCycleMap.org) or routing (e.g. 
 CycleStreets.net) tend to supplement OSM data with SRTM data for 
 elevation. There's a lot of information and help available on mixing 
 SRTM with OSM.
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Srtm
Thanx Greg.  IIRC, SRTM is raster data with a pixel with at best 90 X 90 m.
Even if it were 30 X 30 m, it would still be quite coarse for a running
path.  Strava.com is overkill for my needs.  For the altitude, all I'm
interested in really is a way to tag altitudes to vertices of 
locations I know and have them show up as a cross section.   Thanx for 
your pointers.

Yves

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[OSM-talk-fr] Circuits vélotourisme en Vaucluse

2013-08-19 Thread Tony Emery

Bonjour à tous,

Comme vous le savez peut-être déjà, la ville d'Orange vient de se doter de 3
circuits de vélotourisme. En accord avec l'office de tourisme, j'ai donc
réalisé des plans à inclure dans la publication faite par le Conseil Général
de Vaucluse et, comme vous vous en doutez, ces plans sont réalisé sous
OpenStreetMap.

Voici donc les documents concernant les 3 circuits avec les plans OSM
intégrés. Je penses que les autres circuits vont aussi basculer vers OSM.

De la Pierre aux Galets (Orange-Châteauneuf du Pape)
http://cnstlltn.com/master/65842e11-fc49-41b6-881a-bc7c612ae91d/de%20la%20pierre%20aux%20galets_05_print%20bd.pdf
  

D'Orange à Caderousse
http://cnstlltn.com/master/987475ed-5aad-4538-92ab-8f7314bbbcc4/de%20orange%20a%20caderousse_fr9_print%20bd.pdf
  

Paysages de Jean-Henri Fabre
http://cnstlltn.com/master/1bffe2e3-cb25-4abe-a2b1-78b83c7556dc/paysages%20de%20jean%20henri%20fabre_06_%20print%20bd.pdf
  

Bonne lecture



-
Tony EMERY
Administrateur OpenStreetMap.fr
Mandataire Grand Sud-Est
Géomaticien  chef de projets
--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Circuits-velotourisme-en-Vaucluse-tp5773991.html
Sent from the France mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nominatim : type d'objets OSM retrouvés

2013-08-19 Thread David Crochet


Bonjour

Le 18/08/2013 23:09, Yves Pratter a écrit :

Je ne suis pas à l'aise avec cet outil : j'ai trouvé Grave yard ici :
https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ASearchTranslationsquery=Osm%3AGeocoder.search+osm+nominatim.prefix.amenity.grave+yard

mais pas yard. C'est un oubli dans la version anglaise, ou ce mot se
trouve ailleurs dans translatewiki.net http://translatewiki.net ?


Translatewiki ne propose qu'ne traduction que si les concepteur du 
logiciel mettent un mot, un terme, une expression, un message autorisé à 
la traduction. Si Yard n'est pas traduisible, c'est que l'on ne pourra 
pas le traduire.


Cordialement

--
David Crochet

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu des libellés bidirectionnels (support pour l'écriture arabe ou hébreu)

2013-08-19 Thread Bruno Cortial

Le 18 août 2013 21:40, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/36.25233/1.97501

 On constate ici dans TOUS les rendus Mapnik un bogue pour l'affichage des
 textes bidirectionnels : l'affichage n'est correct QUE s'il n'y a pas de
 saut de ligne au milieu du libellé

 Ainsi un libellé bilingue comme:
   Nom latin - NOM ARABE
 devient bien après réordonnancement linéaire des glyphes (sur une seule
 ligne):
   Nom latin - EBARA MON

 Mais ça se complique en cas de saut de ligne (pour des libellés trop
 longs, ou contenant des espaces):
   Nom latin
   - EBARA
   MON
 est complètement faux, alors que la solution correcte serait plutôt:
   Nom latin
   - MON
   EBARA

 Autrement dit ce n'est pas parce que la partie écrite en arabe se lit de
 droite à gauche qu'il faut couper la partie coupée à droite et la placer
 SOUS la partie conservée à gauche.

 Mapnik ne respecte donc pas l'ordre des mots car même en arabe les lignes
 se lisent du haut vers le bas et nom du bas vers le haut.

 Le rendu bidirectionnel Mapnik (nécessaire pour l'arabe, l'hébreu) est
 faux partout aussi bien sur le site .org que sur les rendus français et
 même d'autres (OpenCycleMap, etc.).

 A qui renvoyer l'anomalie?


Bonjour,
C'est par là: https://github.com/mapnik/mapnik/issues
Il faut regarder les bugs existants tagués text-symboliser et/ou harfbuzz
(bib de gestion des caractères UTF).

Il y a eu un travail réalisé l'année dernière sur les placements de texte,
mais ton cas ne semble pas évoqué :
http://mapnik.org/news/2012/08/04/gsoc2012-status7/
http://mapnik.org/news/2012/07/22/gsoc2012-status5/

A+
Bruno
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 19 août, journée mondiale de l'aide humanitaire, cartographie de Khartoum

Et hop: http://openstreetmap.fr/2013-08-19-journee-mondiale-humanitaire


Le 19 août 2013 04:22, Severin MENARD severin.men...@gmail.com a écrit :

 Bonjour,

 Le 19 août est la journée mondiale de 
 l'humanitairehttp://worldhumanitarianday.org/fr
 .

 Dans le cadre de cet événement nous vous proposons de participer à la
 cartographie à distance des zones les plus inondées de Khartoum au Soudan.
 Plus d'informations sur la page wiki OSM, désormais aussi en français :
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:2013_Sudan_floods

 Il y a trois jobs du Tasking Manager (gestionnaire de tâches) qui sont
 d;evolu à cette réponse de crise :

- no 289 http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/289 où il reste quelques dalles
avec des rues et bâtiments à cartographier
- no 292 http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/292 qui couvre une zone au
sud-est de la ville ; sules les rues sont cartographiées dans cette
première étape
- no 293 http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/293 qui comprend une grande
partie des quartiers à l'ouest du fleuve où seules rues sont à
cartographier compte tenu de la surface


 Merci d'avance à tous les participants !

 Séverin


 2013/8/16 Severin MENARD severin.men...@gmail.com

 Bonsoir à tous,

 Merci à tous ceux qui ont participé à la cartographie sur le job du
 Tasking Manager. Le travail est pratiquement déjà achevé.
 J'ai ajouté deux autres jobs que vous pouvez trouver dans la page wiki :
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2013_Sudan_floods. Pour visualiser
 facilement l'étendue de la zone habitée sur la partie Ouest de la ville,
 j'ai ajouté la zone résidentielle dans OSM :
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/15.6776/32.4622

 Compte tenu de leur étendue, dans un premier temps, il s'agit de
 cartographier les rues.

 Bien cordialement,

 Severin

 HOT (Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team)


 2013/8/10 Severin MENARD severin.men...@gmail.com

 Bonsoir à tous,

 Khartoum, la capitale du Soudan, subit depuis début août de très fortes
 pluies qui donne lieu à des inondations et des zones totalement sous les
 eaux, faisant déjà plusieurs victimes. Les prévisions météorologiques
 annoncent un maintien des conditions météorologiques. Vous pouvez suivre
 l'évolution de la situation sur khartoumflood.crowdmap.com.

 La réponse humanitaire est coordonnée sur le terrain par le PNUD.

 J'ai créé un premier job du Gestionnaire de tâches de HOT (*OSM Tasking
 Manager*) afin de coordonner la cartographie des quartiers de Marabee
 El Shareif et Soba East: http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/289. D'autres
 quartiers viendront. Je vais aussi créer bientôt une page wiki.

 SVP cartographiez tous les rues et bâtiments de la zone du job afin
 d'obtenir la situation pré-crise, sur laquelle une analyse des dommages
 sera effectuée. La donnée OSM sur Khartoum est téléchargeable dans
 différents formats SIG à partir du service HOT Export ; j'y ai configuré ce
 job : http://export.hotosm.org/en/jobs/4233.

 Pour ceux qui ne connaissent pas le Tasking Manager (pas encore traduit
 en français malheureusement), il suffit de cliquer sur l'onglet Task et de
 sélectionner une case dans la carte, qui vous est alors réservée pour les
 deux prochaines heures. Si la case vous semble trop grosse pour le temps
 que vous avez à consacrer pour cartographier, vous pouvez la diviser en
 quatre en cliquant sur Split it.

 Cliquez ensuite sur votre éditeur préféré. Pour JOSM, il faut que la
 fonction télécommande soit activée dans les préférences et que JOSM soit
 déjà ouvert.

 Une fois la tâche faite, vous retournez sur la page du *Tasking Manager* et
 cliquez sur Mark task as done (vous pouvez ajouter un commentaire dans la
 zone jsute au-dessus si besoin). La case apparaît alors en rouge.


 Merci à celles et ceux qui participeront !

 Bien cordialement,


 Séverin

 HOT (Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team)







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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Circuits vélotourisme en Vaucluse

Tu as fait comment pour ce fond carto ? Une copie d'écran ? Ca suffit en
résolution pour une impression papier ?
Une sortie en double résolution est plus appropriée pour une impression.

Je crains que si les traits de coupe sont respectés, la mention
d'attribution sur la carte va partir à la poubelle une fois passé au
massicot...

Le 19 août 2013 08:34, Tony Emery tony.em...@yahoo.fr a écrit :

Bonjour à tous,

Comme vous le savez peut-être déjà, la ville d'Orange vient de se doter de
3
circuits de vélotourisme. En accord avec l'office de tourisme, j'ai donc
réalisé des plans à inclure dans la publication faite par le Conseil
Général
de Vaucluse et, comme vous vous en doutez, ces plans sont réalisé sous
OpenStreetMap.

Voici donc les documents concernant les 3 circuits avec les plans OSM
intégrés. Je penses que les autres circuits vont aussi basculer vers OSM.

De la Pierre aux Galets (Orange-Châteauneuf du Pape)

http://cnstlltn.com/master/65842e11-fc49-41b6-881a-bc7c612ae91d/de%20la%20pierre%20aux%20galets_05_print%20bd.pdf

D'Orange à Caderousse

http://cnstlltn.com/master/987475ed-5aad-4538-92ab-8f7314bbbcc4/de%20orange%20a%20caderousse_fr9_print%20bd.pdf

Paysages de Jean-Henri Fabre

http://cnstlltn.com/master/1bffe2e3-cb25-4abe-a2b1-78b83c7556dc/paysages%20de%20jean%20henri%20fabre_06_%20print%20bd.pdf

Bonne lecture

-
Tony EMERY
Administrateur OpenStreetMap.fr
Mandataire Grand Sud-Est
Géomaticien chef de projets
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nominatim : type d'objets OSM retrouvés

Et là c'est Grave qui a besoin d'être traduit et pas Yard... ceci
explique peut être cela ?


Le 19 août 2013 08:52, David Crochet david.croc...@online.fr a écrit :

 Bonjour

 Le 18/08/2013 23:09, Yves Pratter a écrit :

 Je ne suis pas à l'aise avec cet outil : j'ai trouvé Grave yard ici :
 https://translatewiki.net/w/i.**php?title=Special%**
 3ASearchTranslationsquery=**Osm%3AGeocoder.search+osm+**
 nominatim.prefix.amenity.**grave+yardhttps://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ASearchTranslationsquery=Osm%3AGeocoder.search+osm+nominatim.prefix.amenity.grave+yard

 mais pas yard. C'est un oubli dans la version anglaise, ou ce mot se
 trouve ailleurs dans translatewiki.net http://translatewiki.net ?


 Translatewiki ne propose qu'ne traduction que si les concepteur du
 logiciel mettent un mot, un terme, une expression, un message autorisé à la
 traduction. Si Yard n'est pas traduisible, c'est que l'on ne pourra pas
 le traduire.

 Cordialement

 --
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[OSM-talk-fr] Repère de nivellement manquant

2013-08-19 Thread Nicolas Dumoulin

Bonjour,

Je viens de repérer sur le terrain un repère de nivellement manquant, ici :
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2423836813
Il faudrait donc vérifier un de ces quatres que la base importée est toujours 
présente, et à la bonne place.

Au passage, les coordonnées de ce point sont erronées. Le point est 200m à 
l'est (environ) par rapport aux coordonnées de la fiche. Sur la carte, on le 
voit bien sur la rive droite, loin du pont sur la Monne, alors qu'il est bien 
indiqué près du pont […], sur la rive gauche. Sur le terrain (magnifique), le 
médaillon est bien à quelques mètres du pont, sur la rive gauche.
Je tombe de haut ! Gare aux repères de nivellement (et peut-être géodésique) !


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nominatim : type d'objets OSM retrouvés

2013-08-19 Thread Yves Pratter

 Je ne suis pas à l'aise avec cet outil :
Toujours pas à l'aise avec la navigation, mais j'ai trouvé la page de base pour 
osm : https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:Open_Street_Map

 Translatewiki ne propose qu'ne traduction que si les concepteur du logiciel 
 mettent un mot, un terme, une expression, un message autorisé à la 
 traduction. Si Yard n'est pas traduisible, c'est que l'on ne pourra pas le 
 traduire.
C'est exactement ça. L'astuce consiste à leur faire part de cet oubli ;-)

D'après la page du projet dans translatewiki, j'en déduis qu'il faut mettre un 
ticket dans le projet OSM directement : https://trac.openstreetmap.org

Hors après une recherche, il semble que l'attribut utilisé historic = grave ne 
soit pas standard (94 utilisations indiquées par taginfo).
Il faudrait utiliser historic = tomb (1607 utilisations)

J'ai fait la modification mais la traduction n'existe pas pour autant :-D
Voici le ticket : https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4958

--
Yves

Pour info, la tombe de Jim Morrison était cartographiée comme un calvaire 
historic = wayside_cross.
De plus il y a en a une deuxième à coté ;-)

Il y a 27 autres tombes cartographiées avec historic=wayside_cross au Père 
Lachaise ;-)

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau Rendu des Tuiles France - partie 2

2013-08-19 Thread Pieren

2013/8/18 Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr:

 MBTiles est bien un format d'image même s'il contient en interne des
 sous-images, son but est de stocker une image plus grande afin de pouvoir la
 servir facilement par morceaux sans avoir à faire des calculs compliqués.
 Mais c'est un format spécifique qui ne se justifie plus du tout.

Ben, d'après ce que je comprend en lisant la doc, MBTiles est une base
de données avec une table pour les tuiles (dales) et une autre table
contenant les coordonnées de ces tuiles. Le tout est stocké dans un
fichier unique. Dire que c'est un format d'image, c'est comme dire que
.zip ou .tar sont des formats d'image.

 Ce format n'est pas adapté à une utilisation sur autre chose qu'un serveur de
 tuiles avec de nombreux accès clients concurrents. Il n'est pas efficace sur
 une utilisation embarquée (où presque tous les accès seront quasi-séquentiels
 avec très peu ou pas de concurrence.

La discussion revient à choisir entre un système avec un gros fichier
avec toutes les images dont l'accès est géré par sqlite ou des tas
d'images avec un système de fichiers optimisé pour l'accès à des
millions de petits fichiers et qui supporte l'usage des liens
symboliques pour les tuiles bleues (et dont les optimisations peuvent
perdre de leur intérêt sur des disques de type SSD).

Franchement, il faut être un crack pour prédire à l'avance lequel des
deux systèmes est le plus performant. Il y a aussi l'interaction avec
le cache ram des tuiles qui atténue sensiblement les questions d'accès
concurentiels en lecture.

Pour en revenir à la question initiale, MBTiles est un format bien
pratique pour échanger un ensemble de tuiles dans un seul fichier.
Mais il l'est surtout si le destinataire peut directement s'en servir.

Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] man_made=power_pole et man_made=power_tower

2013-08-19 Thread François Lacombe

Bonjour,

La proposition actuellement en cours sur les lignes électriques a été mise
à jour à la suite de cette discussion.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_transmission_refinement#man_made.3Dpower_tower_or_man_made.3Dpower_pole

La proposition introduit maintenant man_made=power_pole
man_made=power_tower mais ne prévoit pas la dépréciation de power=pole ou
power=tower

Tout cela pour :
- Utiliser man_made=* au lieu de power=* lorsqu'on a besoin de power=* pour
autre chose
- Néanmoins permettre une transition vers man_made mais plus lente que dans
le cas d'une dépréciation nette.

Comme indiqué, les valeurs power_tower et power_pole onté été choisies par
défaut mais peuvent être modifiées selon les divers souhaits qui pourront
être exprimés ici.

Bonne journée.

*François Lacombe*

francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu
http://www.infos-reseaux.com

Le 16 août 2013 09:11, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com a écrit :

Le 15/08/2013 13:15, Christophe Merlet a écrit :

Le 15/08/2013 12:01, Pieren a écrit :

2013/8/15 Christophe Merlet red...@redfoxcenter.org:

Hier et aujourd'hui des gros changeset ont été fait pour rajouter les
balises man_made=power_pole et man_made=power_tower aux pylones
électriques
existants déjà balisé en power=pole et power=tower.

G. Surtout que c'est Vincent qui fait ça alors qu'il sait qu'on
doit discuter avant de lancer ce genre de changements massifs.

Oups...
Je ne m'était pas rendu compte que ça allait aussi vite.
C'est vraiment (presque) trop simple.

Je ne comprends pas l’intérêt de ces modifications et je propose qu'elles
soit annulées.

+1
Tu t'en charges ?

Perso j'ai pas envie de rentrer dans une guerre d'édition et c'est plutot
à la task force d'OSM et de son bot de reverter ce genre de modif. La
discussion date d'avant-hier et manifestement certains ont décider malgré
tout de modifier plus de 5 millions de noeuds en force en dépit des
réticences exprimées !!!

Il n'y aura pas de guerre, Christophe.
Mais non, ça n'est pas un passage en force. Juste un test qui a (un
peu/beaucoup) débordé...
Je n'ai pas beaucoup de temps ce matin pour m'en expliquer. Promis, je le
fait ce soir.

Mille excuses pour l’émoi que ça a pu causer.
--
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[OSM-talk-fr] Comment cartographier des bassins filtrants ?

2013-08-19 Thread Yves Pratter

Bonjour,

Quel attribut mettre pour les bassins filtrants de station d'épuration de 
Grimonpont ?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/234071862

A défaut, je mettrais landuse=basin.

Il serait peut-être utile de définir un nouveau tag car c'est un système qui se 
développe de plus en plus ?

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Circuits vélotourisme en Vaucluse

2013-08-19 Thread Tony Emery

cquest wrote
 Je crains que si les traits de coupe sont respectés, la mention
 d'attribution sur la carte va partir à la poubelle une fois passé au
 massicot...

Je le crains aussi. Je vais envoyer un message à l'ADTHT pour qu'ils
rectifient le tir.

Du coup, j'ai commencé à renseigner les itinéraires vélo sur OSM avec les
attributs et la couleur du circuit.
Quel est le meilleur site pour exploiter ces infos ?



-
Tony EMERY
Administrateur OpenStreetMap.fr
Mandataire Grand Sud-Est
Géomaticien  chef de projets
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment cartographier des bassins filtrants ?

2013-08-19 Thread Nicolas Dumoulin

Le lundi 19 août 2013 11:27:53 Yves Pratter a écrit :
 Bonjour,
 
 Quel attribut mettre pour les bassins filtrants de station d'épuration de
 Grimonpont ? http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/234071862
 
 A défaut, je mettrais landuse=basin.
 
 Il serait peut-être utile de définir un nouveau tag car c'est un système qui
 se développe de plus en plus ?

Si je comprends bien, c'est une station d'épuration par lagunage ?
Dans ce cas, j'aurai bien vu une spécialisation de man_made=wastewater_plant
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dwastewater_plant
Pour l'instant les landuse=basin sont plutôt utilisés pour la gestion des flux 
d'eau non souillée (retention/detention/inflitration). On pourrait aussi 
ajouter basin=waste_water (7 occurences dans la base), mais je trouve plus 
logique pour ma part de le ramener avec les autres techniques d'épuration.

Mes 2 centimes …
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment cartographier des bassins filtrants ?

2013-08-19 Thread Christophe Merlet


Le 19/08/2013 11:27, Yves Pratter a écrit :

Bonjour,

Quel attribut mettre pour les bassins filtrants de station d'épuration
de Grimonpont ?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/234071862

A défaut, je mettrais *landuse=basin*.

Il serait peut-être utile de définir un nouveau tag car c'est un système
qui se développe de plus en plus ?


Le wiki semble proposer d'utiliser landuse=basin + 
basin=infiltration/detention/retention

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbasin

Cependant, j'avais lu il y a quelque temps dans le wiki une migration 
vers natural=water + water=basin , mais je ne retrouve pas. J'ai du le 
rêver, car je suis responsable de 24 water=basin sur 106 dans taginfo !!

Je vais revenir sur landuse=basin...


Librement,
--
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Circuits vélotourisme en Vaucluse

Le 19 août 2013 11:31, Tony Emery tony.em...@yahoo.fr a écrit :
 cquest wrote
 Je crains que si les traits de coupe sont respectés, la mention
 d'attribution sur la carte va partir à la poubelle une fois passé au
 massicot...

 Je le crains aussi. Je vais envoyer un message à l'ADTHT pour qu'ils
 rectifient le tir.


Il suffit de déplacer l'attribution en bas à droite de la carte... sa
place habituelle ;)


 Du coup, j'ai commencé à renseigner les itinéraires vélo sur OSM avec les
 attributs et la couleur du circuit.
 Quel est le meilleur site pour exploiter ces infos ?



Ils devraient être visibles sur
http://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/fr/?zoom=13lat=44.12632lon=4.80326hill=0.235route=0.51

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment cartographier des bassins filtrants ?

2013-08-19 Thread Yves Pratter


 Si je comprends bien, c'est une station d'épuration par lagunage ?
Exactement :-)

 Dans ce cas, j'aurai bien vu une spécialisation de man_made=wastewater_plant
Ce n'est pas un type de station d'épuration (au sens d'usine), mais plutôt un 
bassin spécialisé.

Dans tous les cas, je ne sais pas comment faire de propositions dans OSM…

 Pour l'instant les landuse=basin sont plutôt utilisés pour la gestion des 
 flux 
 d'eau non souillée (retention/detention/inflitration).
D'après le lien 
http://www.bluelinks2008.org/fr/Chantiers/bassinsFiltrants.html, l'eau à la 
sortie du dernier bassin est parfaitement propre.

Je pensais à landuse=basin car au niveau du rendu ça me semble plus parlant, 
plus visible.

 logique pour ma part de le ramener avec les autres techniques d'épuration.
Oui.

On pourrait ainsi étiqueter plus précisément les bassins de décantation et 
d'aération bien visible sur les orthophotos.
Sedimentation (water treatment)
Aerated lagoon
Anaerobic lagoon

--
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment cartographier des bassins filtrants ?

2013-08-19 Thread Pieren

2013/8/19 Nicolas Dumoulin nicolas_openstreetmap@dumoulin63.net:

 Si je comprends bien, c'est une station d'épuration par lagunage ?
 Dans ce cas, j'aurai bien vu une spécialisation de man_made=wastewater_plant
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dwastewater_plant

plutôt une spécialisation du tag landuse=basin (le wastewater_plant
étant l'installation dans son ensemble, non ?).

 Pour l'instant les landuse=basin sont plutôt utilisés pour la gestion des flux
 d'eau non souillée (retention/detention/inflitration). On pourrait aussi
 ajouter basin=waste_water (7 occurences dans la base), mais je trouve plus
 logique pour ma part de le ramener avec les autres techniques d'épuration.

landuse=basin + basin=filtration
ou
landuse=wetland + wetland=filtration
ou
waste_water=filtration
ou
waste_water_treatment=filtration
ou
sewage=filtration

etc

Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Amélioration rendu FR sur les zooms faibles...