Re: [talk-au] Classifying settlements (Was Re: Filling in blank space (Was Re: Tagging towns by relative importance, not just population size))

[David Bannon]

On 5/10/23 14:41, Warin wrote:


Community hall, Police, Fire say 10 each

Store, fuel, mechanic say 20 each

Nurse medical facility, RFDS clinic say 30

Doctors say 40

Hospital say 100

I'd wonder if we are building an impossible to manage rule set. For 
example, many small town doctor's clinic only have a doctor there one or 
two days a week. So, a full time doctor is worth 40 points, so, a one 
day a week one is 8 points ? Many, many "towns" have a community hall 
(or even a Mechanic's Institute) but very many of them have fallen into 
such disrepair its unsafe to go in. And a Hospital, thats one with an 
Emergency Department or just a couple of beds and and a pair of 
overworked nurses ?  How long since that Store was open ? A mechanic ?  
Well, the guy at the servo can help you change a tyre (but only if you 
have a real spare tyre, what are you doing out here with a temporary one 
anyway ?).


My point is there are varying degrees of all these things, I am unsure 
too many mappers are willing or able to obtain the necessary detail.


Davo
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Re: [talk-au] Usage of Openstreetmap at EMSINA

[David Wales via Talk-au]

On 26 August 2022 12:15:54 pm AEST, Graeme Fitzpatrick  
wrote:
>One thing that I'd love feedback on if possible is street numbers,
>particularly for rural areas?
>
>Does anybody use them & are they of any use?

I use them in Organic Maps for my personal navigation!

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[talk-au] definition of PSV (Public Service Vehicles) in Australia

[David Vidovic via Talk-au]

Hi all,
In regards to PSV (Public Service Vehicles), I understand this encompasses 
buses/coaches.
For a "bus only" way such as a bus bay, I see common tagging [access=no] + 
[psv=yes] used.
Does anyone know if a Taxi is considered a "public service vehicle" and 
therefore able use the busy bay way? Or does [access=no] inherently prevent 
this and it would need a separate [taxi=yes] tag?
cheers,David
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[talk-au] How to create an exception for buses where way tag is [parking:lane:left = no_stopping] ?

[David Vidovic via Talk-au]

Hi, 
In Sydney, we have a situation where buses service bus stops along the M2 
Motorway.
Cars and Ride Share vehicles are not permitted to stop at these bus stops.
To prevent vehicles stopping, I believe I can use the common tagging method 
[parking:lane:left = no_stopping] on a way segment
BUT, I don't want this tag to prevent buses from being able to service the bus 
stop.
Is there an exception tag or some other kind of tag that could allow buses to 
stop?
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Re: [talk-au] OSM Notes

[David Wales via Talk-au]

I'm guilty of leaving some abandoned notes! I got the notifications when they 
were cleaned up recently.

I mostly left the notes because I was using StreetComplete, and wanted to 
capture data that StreetComplete couldn't capture. I intended to come back and 
resolve the notes, but clearly forgot!

However, I did double check some of the recently closed notes, and at least one 
had been closed without incorporating the information (postbox collection time) 
into the map. I took the opportunity to belatedly add this.

Regards,
David Wales

On 7 March 2022 10:31:08 am AEDT, stevea  wrote:
>On Mar 2, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
>> Have they simply forgotten that they posted them, so a reminder would og 
>> their memory; or as suggested, do they want somebody else to do the actual 
>> mapping work for them?
>
>Let's not forget that a Note is often added by a "lesser experienced" mapper 
>(or maybe not even a mapper at all, I think there might be methods for 
>non-Contributors to add a Note, like through certain apps...please correct me 
>if I'm wrong).  They add a Note because it is "better than leaving a noticed 
>error," but they can't (or won't) fix it themselves.  So, YES, they DO want 
>somebody else to do the actual mapping work for them.  There is nothing wrong 
>with this, it is part of why Notes exist, so let's incorporate that knowledge 
>into why somebody posted a Note in the first place:  it isn't so we can 
>grumble at their "laziness," it is to "request an assist" by a mapper who 
>comes along later and says "yup, there's a problem here, I know how to fix it, 
>and they whack away the error into mapping data bliss."  (Right there, for 
>that issue).  And, "another one (Note) bites the dust."
>
>As we Resolve a Note, it's a full round-trip on what is supposed to happen 
>with them.  Even one at a time this is true, but especially when you get 
>national-scope efforts to fix these (thousands at a time), the quality of our 
>map data just goes up, up, up.  I smile at the thought of it:  such feedback 
>loops are wonderful.
>
>Congrats on the Weekly Newsletter horn-toot!
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Re: [talk-au] Deletion of walking tracks/paths

[David Wales via Talk-au]

In my area there are walks which are:

1. In a published local guide
2. Practically invisible on the ground, except for bits of red tape hanging 
from tree branches every 50-100 metres!
3. Definitely unofficial

I've traced them from my personal GPX recordings, and named them according to 
the name in the guide (with permission from the author of the guide).

Is this good practice? Or bad practice?

Regards,
David Wales

On 25 January 2022 7:53:18 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 at 19:22, Little Maps  wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrew, thanks for compiling the walking tracks page, it’s a great
>> resource. It would be good to extend this later on to have separate pages
>> for walking tracks, vehicle tracks and MTB paths, since these issues keep
>> coming up on the forum.
>
>
>Good idea, and eventually these pages could be linked to from
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian%20Tagging%20Guidelines.
>Vehicle tracks should be less controversial and easier. MTB paths is a can
>of worms, I feel the global tagging practises aren't quite there yet, but
>happy to help out with a page.
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Re: [talk-au] Review of road surface tags in Victoria

[David Bannon]

What a brilliant piece of work !  And a good outcome too. 
Thanks for that effort.
David
On Fri, 2021-12-03 at 14:22 +1100, Little Maps wrote:
> Hi folks, for anyone interested in rural roads, I’ve put together a
> very nerdy review of the super accuracy of OpenStreetMap’s road
> surface tags (sealed vs unsealed) in Victoria. Lots of maps and
> tables. Hope you find it informative. Cheers Ian
> 
> 
> https://littlemaps692810600.wordpress.com/2021/12/03/openstreetmap-on-australian-roads-how-accurate-are-road-surface-tags-in-victoria/
> 
> 
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Re: [talk-au] Sufficient permission?

[David Wales]

As an example, this path is called "The Ruins Track" by the author of
the guide, as it passes the ruins of an old settlers cottage:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/855355616

This part of the track is called "Racklyefts Finger Track":
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/856270065

Due to the existence of the guide, and the lack of signs on the ground,
I imagine that most people use the names in the guide, or no name at
all. However, I do not belong to a local walking group, so I don't know
if there are other conventions.

However, the author of the guide has walked all the tracks himself, and
created and maintains some of them.

On 7/10/20 9:54 am, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-au wrote:
>
>
>
> Oct 6, 2020, 23:10 by daviewa...@disroot.org:
>
> "You may use any names I have applied to tracks as my main
> intention is to get people walking."
>
> I am not a lawyer but it sounds like something that is at least
> intended to be
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-domain-equivalent_license like say
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL
>
> note that there is also special mailing list (legal-talk).
>
> I am more worried about
>
> You will find names in the guide that are not accepted
> geographical names,
> but by becoming common usage names they will eventually be adopted.
> I am fitting (nailing) laminated signs with map to trees.
>
> part - are this names already used by people except author of the guide?
>
> (I just added place=locality with name used by people from a single
> camping spot[1], so
> my standards are not high - but some actual use should be present)
>
> [1]
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7973988988#map=16/49.4727/21.3801
> 
>
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[talk-au] Sufficient permission?

[David Wales]

Hi all,

I like to walk tracks with my GPS running, and trace them into OSM
afterwards.

A long time ago, I sent an email to Robert Sloss, who makes lots of
bushwalking guides in my region. I asked if it was OK for me to use the
track names from his books to name the tracks in OSM. (Many of the
tracks are not signposted, so you can't find out the name on the ground.)

His reply was

"You may use any names I have applied to tracks as my main intention is
to get people walking."

Does this sound like sufficient permission for OSM?
The full email chain is pasted below:

From: "Robert Sloss" 
To: "'David Wales'" 
Subject: RE: OpenStreetMap Bushwalking tracks
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:43:06 +1000

Hi David

I have no objection to using the name Cadastral; I used this name as there
is no street nae for the right of way between the two properties. 

You will find names in the guide that are not accepted geographical names,
but by becoming common usage names they will eventually be adopted. I am
fitting (nailing) laminated signs with map to trees. \

You may use any names I have applied to tracks as my main intention is to
get people walking.

Regards 

Robert Sloss 

-----Original Message-
From: David Wales [mailto:daviewa...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 6:16 PM
To: rob...@robertsloss.com.au
Subject: OpenStreetMap Bushwalking tracks

Hi Robert,

I have recently gone on a bushwalk in the Buxton area, using your book
Bushwalking - Cycling : Wollondilly & Macarthur.
I logged the route using a GPS, and have traced the track onto
OpenStreetMaps.

(See this link: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-34.24863/150.51763 )

However, I have not added the name of the track, because it was not
signposted.
According to your book, the track name is Cadestral Track, but I thought I
should ask your permission before copying that name.

For future reference, do you mind if I use the names from your book to name
trails I trace on OpenStreetMap from GPS tracks?

Regards,
David Wales.



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Re: [talk-au] NSW LPI Data

[David Wales]

Hmm...
We might have a problem then, because we've been using the following
endpoint to generate our address points:
https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/sixmaps/PropertyAddress/MapServer/3/query

I was hoping to move to using the following instead, as it provides
better locations for the addresses in some cases:
https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/sixmaps/PropertyAddress/MapServer/2

However, if we don't actually have permission for these endpoints, we're
going to either need to get permission somehow, or revert and restart
with the correct endpoint! :(

Some guidance would be good here!

Regards,
David Wales

On 25/7/20 5:45 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> It should still apply, but as always only the services listed
> at 
> https://www.spatial.nsw.gov.au/products_and_services/web_services/access_web_services
>  are
> covered, the Property Address endpoint is not directly listed and
> therefore cannot be assumed to be openly licensed.
>
> On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 at 17:35, David Wales  <mailto:daviewa...@disroot.org>> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> As part of the NSW Address Import
> 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia_NSW_Property_and_Address_Import>,
> we have been relying (I think) upon the following explicit permission:
>
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/New_South_Wales_Government_Data
>
> However, the links mentioned in the permission no longer exist, as
> the LPI services have migrated to SIX maps.
> I'm just wanting to double-check that the permission still applies
> at the new location, and if so, does it apply to all the arcgis
> endpoints available in SIX maps? For example, the following:
> 
> https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/sixmaps/PropertyAddress/MapServer/2
>
> Regards,
> David Wales
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[talk-au] NSW LPI Data

[David Wales]

Dear all,

As part of the NSW Address Import
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia_NSW_Property_and_Address_Import>,
we have been relying (I think) upon the following explicit permission:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/New_South_Wales_Government_Data

However, the links mentioned in the permission no longer exist, as the
LPI services have migrated to SIX maps.
I'm just wanting to double-check that the permission still applies at
the new location, and if so, does it apply to all the arcgis endpoints
available in SIX maps? For example, the following:
https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/sixmaps/PropertyAddress/MapServer/2

Regards,
David Wales


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Re: [talk-au] Working with local government

[David Wales]

I imagine this approach would work better on nodes than on ways.
But I imagine that the number of keys with changed nodes would be much
fewer than the total number of keys, allowing the unchanged nodes to be
easily updated, and reducing the conflation burden.

On 20/7/20 5:24 pm, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-au wrote:
> (1) pollution of tags by such keys is irritating
> (2) people may split, move, delete, edit or copy such tag
>
> wikidata key is slightly better - but requires wikidata entries
>
> Jul 20, 2020, 04:33 by daviewa...@disroot.org:
>
> Is there any reason against using a custom tag as a linking key?
>
> e.g. some_import_object_id=123456
>
> Then when you need to update the data, you can match the key in
> OSM with the key in the source data.
>
> On 19 July 2020 11:21:04 pm AEST, Andrew Harvey
>  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 at 22:28, Greg Dutkowski
> mailto:greg.dutkow...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Thanks for everyone's input.
> Sebastien best understood what I am trying to do.
> It seems inefficient for local government to make their
> data open and then hope the OSM community translates it to
> OSM tagging. 
>
> Better for local government to put their data directly
> into OSM and maintain a two way link to their data.
>
>
> While that is certainly welcome, I would never have an
> expectation of it. I expectat that all public funded works are
> made open without restrictions on use (of course subject to
> privacy concerns or other special considerations) so at least
> the OSM community can use it if we like, anything above and
> beyond this is a welcome contribution.
>
> If a local government is thinking about this, I'd just say
> engage with us so we can all work together.
>  
>
> Examples and tools from anyone who is trying to keep
> external data in sync with OSM will be most useful.
>
>
> There are some conflation tools
> at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Conflation but
> they appear to all need a lot of coding to get up and running.
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Working with local government

[David Wales]

Is there any reason against using a custom tag as a linking key?

e.g. some_import_object_id=123456

Then when you need to update the data, you can match the key in OSM with the 
key in the source data.

On 19 July 2020 11:21:04 pm AEST, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 at 22:28, Greg Dutkowski 
>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> Thanks for everyone's input.
>> Sebastien best understood what I am trying to do.
>> It seems inefficient for local government to make their data open and
>then
>> hope the OSM community translates it to OSM tagging.
>>
>Better for local government to put their data directly into OSM and
>> maintain a two way link to their data.
>>
>
>While that is certainly welcome, I would never have an expectation of
>it. I
>expectat that all public funded works are made open without
>restrictions on
>use (of course subject to privacy concerns or other special
>considerations)
>so at least the OSM community can use it if we like, anything above and
>beyond this is a welcome contribution.
>
>If a local government is thinking about this, I'd just say engage with
>us
>so we can all work together.
>
>
>> Examples and tools from anyone who is trying to keep external data in
>> sync with OSM will be most useful.
>>
>
>There are some conflation tools at
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Conflation but they appear
>to
>all need a lot of coding to get up and running.
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Re: [talk-au] Aboriginal languages

[David Wales]

I certainly think there is scope within OSM for these indigenous
boundaries and names to be mapped.
However, as has been brought up earlier in this discussion, I don't know
if there is much authoritative data under a compatible license.

In this case, I would suggest making contact with your local indigenous
groups and teaching them how to use OSM.
This might even be a case where OSM can create some spatial data which
is not available anywhere else, based on direct indigenous knowledge.

Regards,
David Wales

On 2/6/20 10:41 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 08:21, Ian Sergeant  <mailto:inas66%2b...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> I don't see that mapping Nations is an option, I see it as
> almost criminal that we don't already.
>
>
> Surely the essential question to be asked here, is whether these
> boundaries fit into the OSM model, which is largely inspired by
> the ordinance survey, where every boundary can be placed as a
> surveyable marker.
>
> So, while they deserve attention and focus, if they can't be
> verified and measured, then perhaps OSM isn't the right tool.
>
>
> Suburb boundaries usually don't have anything physical on the ground
> to survey, but we still include them where they actually exist and are
> a concept that is recognised by people.
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Re: [talk-au] Question about houses

[David Wales]

Realised that I replied directly, rather than to the list...
Reply below:

Hi James,

If there is only one building at the address, I would merge the building
and the address point.
You can mark the entrance as described here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:entrance

If there is more than one building, add a perimeter, and merge the
address to that:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Addresses#Multiple_buildings_for_one_housenumber

Note that according to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Addresses
there are several options for tagging buildings with addresss, but the
above are my preferred methods.

Regards,
David

On 29/3/20 9:11 am, Dion Moult wrote:
> Hello James!
>
> FYI those addresses you see were likely created as part of the NSW
> address import project - that is why they are in the middle of the lot
> :) Please feel free to improve on its accuracy by merging it into an
> actual building!
>
> Dion Moult
>
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Sunday, March 29, 2020 9:08 AM, Graeme Fitzpatrick
>  wrote:
>
>> G'day James & welcome!
>>
>> Personally, I've always gone with either #3, with the address node at
>> the driveway, or drawn the building & added the address details to that.
>>
>> Either way seems to work, in the they render, & also appear in an
>> address search (at least on OSMand!)
>>
>> Good luck & have fun!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 at 21:47, James Cridland > <mailto:ja...@cridland.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello, folks - first time poster here, and (while I first edited
>> OSM a while ago) this my first time doing a lot of work in it to
>> make it nicer.
>>
>> I'm adding the buildings around where I live. They're all
>> individual buildings, mainly houses. In my part of Australia
>> we've address points, which come from the local council. They're
>> in the middle of the lot - not necessarily in the middle of the
>> building on the lot.
>>
>> Should I be:
>> 1. Adding the building outlines and moving the address points to
>> the centre of the building?
>> 2. Adding the building outlines and dropping the address point
>> onto the outline, so they're merged?
>> 3. Adding the building outlines and dropping the address point
>> onto the outline at the entrance, so they're merged?
>> 4. What the hell are you doing James, don't touch the address points?
>>
>> Looking at the renderer: if I do #3, that moves the street number
>> to the entrance of the property, which is quite helpful,
>> especially for a building on a corner.
>>
>> -- 
>> Tel/SMS/Signal/WhatsApp: +61 447 692743
>> Podnews <https://podnews.net/> · My radio trends newsletter
>> <https://james.crid.land/> · Speaking and consultancy
>> <https://james.cridland.net/>
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Re: [talk-au] Shoulder and cycle usage

[David Wales]

If they have a painted bicycle lane, surely that would make it a bicycle lane, 
rather than a shoulder?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway#Cycle_lanes

On 21 January 2020 2:18:05 pm AEDT, "Sebastian S."  wrote:
>Hi, what is the view of tagging road shoulders and particularly when
>they have painted bicycle signs?
>
>Motorways would be another candidate.
>
>A wiki entry for shoulder exists but is very basic
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shoulder
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Re: [talk-au] (no subject)

[David Wales]

Hello James,

Are you new here?
Welcome to Australia's OpenStreetMap mailing list!

Regards,
David

On 14 January 2020 11:18:31 pm AEDT, James Oliver 
 wrote:
>Hello
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Re: [talk-au] Way has been simplified...

[David Wales]

By default OSMAnd shows things which may be of interest to mappers.

If you don't want to see these notes, you can turn the feature off.

On 12 January 2020 1:18:42 pm AEDT, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 12/1/20 12:37 pm, Sebastian S. wrote:
>> When using OSMAnd for routing I came across the following note: "way 
>> has been simplified using a error criteria of 3m" it is usually in 
>> green text.
>> Does anyone know what this means, why do we need the note? What 
>> purpose does it serve?
>
>
>This is usually from an import of data. The data may have many points 
>(nodes in OSM) that lead to data bloat.
>
>JOSM has a tool that reduces the number of nodes such that any error 
>will be less than 3 meters from the original information, 'simplify
>way'.
>
>
>It may be better to have these as 'comment=*' rather than 'note=*'?
>They 
>should only be for other mappers to see if they have some concern with 
>the data.
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[David Wales]

Thanks all,

Changeset:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79209273

On 5/1/20 9:15 pm, Warin wrote:
> There are some 944 of them in the data base .. so they should be
> documented.
>
> I'd be pleased to add a few more, along with the suggested tags.
>
> On 05/01/20 21:02, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>> Okay with me though it would be good if that tag was documented
>> at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 20:15, Sebastian S. > <mailto:mapp...@consebt.de>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> Similar to schools the building should be tagged
>>
>> building=fire_station
>>
>> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=fire_station
>>
>>
>> On 5 January 2020 4:55:26 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey
>> mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, this
>> is 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature.2C_one_OSM_element,
>> there should only be one amenity=fire_station for a single
>> fire station.
>>
>> Where possible I prefer to trace the site boundary as this
>> can be useful information and put all the tags on that, and
>> then just have a way inside it with building=yes an none of
>> the fire station tags.
>>
>> But I think it's also fine to just have a node, or to just
>> have the building without the site as interim solutions or
>> for fire stations where the extent is just the building which
>> don't have a yard.
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 15:27, David Wales
>> mailto:daviewa...@disroot.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Somewhat related to this.
>>
>> Camden West Rural Fire Service has both a traced
>> building, *and* a traced site border.
>> Both are currently tagged with amenity=fire_station.
>>
>> The building has the rest of the identifying tags.
>>
>> I feel that it makes sense to only have one feature
>>     tagged with amenity=fire_station, and the rest of the
>> tags. Should this be the building, or the site border?
>>
>> See link below:
>> 
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=724460466#map=20/-34.05818/150.67674
>>
>> Regards,
>> David Wales
>>
>> On 4/1/20 2:39 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess
>>> mailto:mapp...@consebt.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Andrew,
>>> I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.
>>>
>>> branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
>>> name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks
>>> like, but branch should be just "Narrabeen", without the
>>> "Fire Station" words. Then you could still have
>>> name=Narrabeen Fire Station.
>>>  
>>>
>>> Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was
>>> the name.
>>>
>>> I've also added
>>> building =    fire_station
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fire Station Operators

[David Wales]

Somewhat related to this.

Camden West Rural Fire Service has both a traced building, *and* a
traced site border.
Both are currently tagged with amenity=fire_station.

The building has the rest of the identifying tags.

I feel that it makes sense to only have one feature tagged with
amenity=fire_station, and the rest of the tags. Should this be the
building, or the site border?

See link below:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=724460466#map=20/-34.05818/150.67674

Regards,
David Wales

On 4/1/20 2:39 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 14:14, Sebastian Spiess  <mailto:mapp...@consebt.de>> wrote:
>
> Andrew,
> I've done one. Just clarifying regarding the branch.
>
> branch  =   Narrabeen Fire Station
> name   =  Fire and Rescue NSW Station 068 Narrabeen
>
>
> I can't see clearly from Mapillary what the singe looks like, but
> branch should be just "Narrabeen", without the "Fire Station" words.
> Then you could still have name=Narrabeen Fire Station.
>  
>
> Is this how you suggested? Before the branch tag was the name.
>
> I've also added
> building =    fire_station
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/79179815
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Bush Fire Neighbourhood Safer Places

[David Wales]

According to the NSW RFS:

"Neighbourhood Safer Places are a place of last resort during a bush fire 
emergency.

They are to be used when all other options in your bush fire survival plan 
can't be put into action safely."

https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/plan-and-prepare/neighbourhood-safer-places

On 4 January 2020 6:11:15 pm AEDT, Graeme Fitzpatrick  
wrote:
>On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 at 12:21, adam steer  wrote:
>
>>
>> In Vic these are only used as a last resort. Not sure if 'assembly
>point'
>> translates to 'only come here if there are absolutely no other
>options, and
>> this place might not be safe anyway'.
>>
>>
>> It seems that 'neighbourhood safer places' means something different
>> across borders. Can anyone in emergency services comment?
>>
>
>The Qld version is similar
>https://www.ruralfire.qld.gov.au/BushFire_Safety/Neighbourhood-Safer-Places/Pages/default.aspx
>
>"An NSP is a local open space or building where people may gather, as a
>last resort, to seek shelter from a bushfire."
>
>  Thanks
>
>Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Phone number updates

[David Wales]

For future reference, (e.g. if we want to do this in NSW), I've pieced
together half of what would be needed to automate this process...

The following Overpass query will allow one to export all the phone
numbers from Victoria to JOSM. You can then filter to select just those
which don't start with '+61'.

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/PlR

The hard part of course is writing some code to do something interesting
with these numbers.
But I'm confident that by the time I figure that out, the MapRoulette
task will be finished!

I'll just keep working at the MapRoulette...

On 30/12/19 8:45 pm, Phil Wyatt wrote:
> Hi Warin, 
>
> Near the borders there are a few anomalies so unless the area codes
> are listed I just leave them
>
> Cheers - Phil, 
> On the road with his iPad 
>
>> On 30 Dec 2019, at 8:04 pm, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> On 30/12/19 08:39, David Wales wrote:
>>> My thought was that processing a subset of the formats could deal
>>> with a good chunk of the numbers, and the rest could be left for
>>> MapRoulette.
>>>
>>> For example, some code could look at every number in Victoria,
>> Caution .. are you certain that everywhere in Victoria use the same
>> area code? It is not the case in some states.
>> I'd check area codes in the west of the state that might use central
>> australian time.
>>
>>> remove all the spaces and special symbols and check if it is 10
>>> digits long, with the first two being '03'. In that case, perform
>>> the transformation '03' -> '+61 3  '.
>>>
>>> The other cases could be left for MapRoulette.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, I don't think I have time at the moment to put this
>>> together myself. :(
>>>
>>> On 29/12/19 9:44 pm, Phil Wyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi David,
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> It may be for someone more skilled than me however there are lots
>>>> of combinations that need to be taken into account
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Those with no area codes
>>>>
>>>> Those with area codes in ()
>>>>
>>>> Those with area codes but no international code
>>>>
>>>> Those with international code but no + sign at the start
>>>>
>>>> Spaces or dashes between numbers or no spaces
>>>>
>>>> Grouping of numbers +61 x  
>>>>
>>>> 1300/1800 numbers that need to be tagged phone:AU
>>>>
>>>> Those without enough numbers
>>>>
>>>> Inconsistent area codes in some areas (NSW/VIC border areas)
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> …to mention just a few that I have found…
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Cheers – Phil
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> *From:*David Wales 
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, 29 December 2019 9:34 PM
>>>> *To:* talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Phone number updates
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> I did a few.
>>>>
>>>> Surely this would be a prime target for an automated edit?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> David Wales
>>>>
>>>> On 29/12/19 2:22 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 at 12:36, Phil Wyatt >>> <mailto:p...@wyatt-family.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> feel free to join me if you want some mind numbing
>>>> entertainment for an hour or two.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> It is certainly that! :-)
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> WA and Tasmania already completed
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> As is Qld :-)
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>  Thanks
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Graeme
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [talk-au] Phone number updates

[David Wales]

I did a few.

Surely this would be a prime target for an automated edit?

Regards,
David Wales

On 29/12/19 2:22 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 at 12:36, Phil Wyatt  <mailto:p...@wyatt-family.com>> wrote:
>
> feel free to join me if you want some mind numbing entertainment
> for an hour or two.
>
>
> It is certainly that! :-)
>  
>
> WA and Tasmania already completed
>
>
> As is Qld :-)
>
>  Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
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Re: [talk-au] Kathmandu + OSM

[David Wales]

They're even using Leaflet, which I'm sure suggests the correct
attribution if you use all the default settings!

On 3/12/19 10:24 am, Adam Horan wrote:
> The tiles seem to be coming from tile.osm.org  -
> i thought that was a no-no ? Might depend on whether their site counts
> as 'heavy usage' https://operations.osmfoundation.org/policies/tiles/  ?
>
> I feel they do deserve some credit for actually using OSM rather than
> google maps (although they do use google maps for directions)
>
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 08:55, Andrew Harvey  > wrote:
>
> There is also a wiki
> page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution to
> try to keep track of these kinds of issues.
>
> On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 at 23:39, Ben Kelley  > wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> I noticed that Kathmandu's web site (the clothing retailer,
> rather than the city in Nepal) uses OSM for their store
> locator, but it does not include the correct copyright
> information. https://www.kathmandu.com.au/stores
>
> I sent them some feedback on their web site to this effect, so
> I'll see how it goes.
>
>  - Ben.
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Re: [talk-au] (NSW) Email Update – Changes to permanent speed limits

[David Wales]

Thanks Mateuz,

That is helpful.

On 16 November 2019 7:27:47 pm AEDT, Mateusz Konieczny 
 wrote:
>Note that CC 4.0 is not significantly helpful, without special waiver
>it is also incompatible with ODBL
>See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/ODbL_Compatibility
>
>AFAIK: 
>
>(1) planning survey may be done based on even fully copyrighted data
>without trouble
>(2) data incompatible with ODBL is by definition incompatible with ODBL
>
>Creating notes based on a copyrighted source sounds OK (I am not a
>lawyer!)
>as long as people will not use them more than for planning survey.
>Note that confirming note to be true is not sufficient.
>
>I would suggest notes in form
>"according to an official source on licence incompatible with OSM there
>is a new speed limit here since X"
>to ensure that somebody will not copy copyrighted data by accident or
>due lack of understanding.
>
>Or getting needed waiver, what would make data ODBL compatible.
>
>15 Nov 2019, 21:26 by daviewa...@disroot.org:
>
>> I have since signed up to the service.
>> Clicking on the link in the email takes me to a page on the website,
>which is explicitly CC 4.0. I suspect this means it is OK to manually
>add a note or FIXME requesting resurvey.
>>
>> I don't think that should cause trouble with the ODBL, because you're
>not importing the data.
>>
>> (Open to correction here)
>>
>> Regards,
>> David Wales
>>
>> On 14 November 2019 5:15:07 am AEDT, David Wales
> wrote:
>>
>>> A relevant paragraph from the terms of use:
>>>
>>> "The Service is intended for personal use only. You must not use it
>for business purposes or re-supply the information to others."
>>>
>>> This seems at odds with the CC 4.0 license which the website itself
>is under!
>>>
>>> I suspect you would need to either track down the original data
>source behind the emails, or you would need to contact Transport for
>NSW to get permission. 
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 November 2019 10:21:58 pm AEDT, Luke Stewart
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In case you were not aware, there is a bi-monthly service from the
>NSW government advising when and where new speed limits have been
>introduced across the state, allowing us to keep our maxspeeds up to
>date.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.saferroadsnsw.com.au/emailupdates.aspx
>>>>
>>>> I was considering adding a note to the locations that have been
>changed each time the email is sent, but would this count as adding
>non-copyrighted data, even though it would only request a resurvey?
>>>>
>>>> Interested to hear your thoughts,
>>>> Luke
>>>>
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Re: [talk-au] (NSW) Email Update – Changes to permanent speed limits

[David Wales]

I have since signed up to the service.
Clicking on the link in the email takes me to a page on the website, which is 
explicitly CC 4.0. I suspect this means it is OK to manually add a note or 
FIXME requesting resurvey.

I don't think that should cause trouble with the ODBL, because you're not 
importing the data.

(Open to correction here)

Regards,
David Wales

On 14 November 2019 5:15:07 am AEDT, David Wales  wrote:
>A relevant paragraph from the terms of use:
>
>"The Service is intended for personal use only. You must not use it for
>business purposes or re-supply the information to others."
>
>This seems at odds with the CC 4.0 license which the website itself is
>under!
>
>I suspect you would need to either track down the original data source
>behind the emails, or you would need to contact Transport for NSW to
>get permission. 
>
>Regards,
>David
>
>
>
>On 13 November 2019 10:21:58 pm AEDT, Luke Stewart
> wrote:
>>In case you were not aware, there is a bi-monthly service from the NSW
>>government advising when and where new speed limits have been
>>introduced
>>across the state, allowing us to keep our maxspeeds up to date.
>>
>>https://www.saferroadsnsw.com.au/emailupdates.aspx
>>
>>I was considering adding a note to the locations that have been
>changed
>>each time the email is sent, but would this count as adding
>>non-copyrighted
>>data, even though it would only request a resurvey?
>>
>>Interested to hear your thoughts,
>>Luke
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Re: [talk-au] (NSW) Email Update – Changes to permanent speed limits

[David Wales]

A relevant paragraph from the terms of use:

"The Service is intended for personal use only. You must not use it for 
business purposes or re-supply the information to others."

This seems at odds with the CC 4.0 license which the website itself is under!

I suspect you would need to either track down the original data source behind 
the emails, or you would need to contact Transport for NSW to get permission. 

Regards,
David



On 13 November 2019 10:21:58 pm AEDT, Luke Stewart 
 wrote:
>In case you were not aware, there is a bi-monthly service from the NSW
>government advising when and where new speed limits have been
>introduced
>across the state, allowing us to keep our maxspeeds up to date.
>
>https://www.saferroadsnsw.com.au/emailupdates.aspx
>
>I was considering adding a note to the locations that have been changed
>each time the email is sent, but would this count as adding
>non-copyrighted
>data, even though it would only request a resurvey?
>
>Interested to hear your thoughts,
>Luke
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[David Wales]

I would use access=destination

On 7 November 2019 10:21:26 pm AEDT, Sebastian Spiess  
wrote:
>Hello List,
>
>how do you map a 'local traffic only' sign as this one? 
>https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/FkY8gmlGX2NmhUARyveMQw
>
>Following https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access states
>"...Note 
>that "access only for residents" is private..."
>
>Would this not break navigation in apps etc?
>
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Re: [talk-au] Admin Boundaries of Australia

[David Wales]

I believe we have a waiver for PSMA admin boundaries. 

See here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_data_catalogue

Regards,
David Wales

On 1 November 2019 11:21:36 pm AEDT, wambac...@posteo.de wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I've been referred to this source for the admin boundaries of
>Australia: 
>https://psma.com.au/product/administrative-boundaries/ I have no 
>intention of importing this data, but would like to know what you think
>
>about the license.
>
>I found http://psma.com.au/psma-data-copyright-and-disclaimer/ and in
>it 
>https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/au/
>
>The cc 2.5 seems to have the usual requirements like attribution,
>*which 
>is impossible for OSM*.
>
>"Attribution - You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the 
>license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any 
>reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor 
>endorses you or your use."
>
>I suspect that the subject is thereby ticked off.
>
>Regards
>
>walter, Germany
>
>(Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator)
>
>-- 
>My projects:
>
>Admin Boundaries of the World
><https://wambachers-osm.website/boundaries>
>Missing Boundaries 
><https://wambachers-osm.website/index.php/projekte/internationale-administrative-grenzen/missing-boundaries>
>Emergency Map <https://wambachers-osm.website/emergency>
>Postal Code Map (Germany only) <https://wambachers-osm.website/plz>
>Fools (QA for zipcodes in Germany)
><https://wambachers-osm.website/fools>
>Postcode Boundaries of Germany
><https://wambachers-osm.website/pcoundaries>
>OSM Software Watchlist 
><https://wambachers-osm.website/index.php/osm-software-watchlist>
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Re: [talk-au] LPI NSW Lot Boundaries—worthwile to request?

[David Wales]

Not completely redundant. 

Would your proposal allow one to see lot boundaries and satellite imagery at 
the same time, without having to switch back and forth to the LPI base map?

On 24 October 2019 11:20:55 am AEDT, Luke Stewart 
 wrote:
>I didn't notice the lot boundaries on the base map but it seems you're
>right. In which case it would make this proposal redundant. Thank you
>for
>pointing that out.
>
>Cheers,
>Luke
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Re: [talk-au] Facebook RapiD Roads

[David Wales]

I'm sure it would be a valuable data source to make use of. However, I'm 
certain many other countries have a much greater need. Our road coverage is 
close to 99% from memory. (I can't remember the exact figure or reference.)

We also have pretty good access to government data in many states.

No harm in asking though.

(Now, if they enabled quality building outlines, that would be a game changer.)

On 16 October 2019 11:44:28 am AEDT, Phil Wyatt  wrote:
>Hi Folks,
>
> 
>
>Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it would be worthwhile to ask
>for
>Australia as part of Facebooks project?
>
> 
>
>https://github.com/facebookincubator/RapiD/blob/master/COUNTRY_REQUESTS.md
>
> 
>
>Just curious to peoples thoughts.
>
> 
>
>Cheers - Phil
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[talk-au] Australia Wiki Page

[David Wales]

The Australian wiki page has been updated with a nice banner which
contains links to various categories of information.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia

However, a couple of these links don't appear to go anywhere:

- Map Status: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia#Status
- Links: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia#Links

Should the page be re-organised to reflect these categories, or should
these non-existent links be removed?

Regards,
David Wales



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Re: [talk-au] Centrelink locations

[David Wales]

I've sent the waiver, and added it to the catalogue.

On 27/9/19 12:01 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> I haven't sent one, feel free to send one and add it to the catalogue
> (even if you don't hear back, if it's helpful to keep track of what
> we've sent and when).
>
> On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 at 21:41, David Wales  <mailto:daviewa...@disroot.org>> wrote:
>
> Dear Talk-AU,
>
> I have found a dataset on data.gov.au <http://data.gov.au> with
> Centrelink addresses, locations and opening hours.
>
> 
> https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-70c2b2fe-2a32-450e-98dc-453fe4a02aae/details?q=Centrelink
>
> I was unable to find this data in the Australian data catalogue.
>
> It is licensed as Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Australia.
>
> Has a waiver already been sent for this data, or should I send one?
>
> Regards,
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping 'private roads'

[David Wales]

So long as access and gates are correctly tagged, I can't see a reason not to 
map private roads.

On 5 October 2019 8:34:59 pm AEST, Mateusz Konieczny  
wrote:
>
>
>
>5 Oct 2019, 01:44 by 61sundow...@gmail.com:
>> The problem here is that some raise the "not map the interiorprivate
>roads in detail" as not mapping them at all
>>
>Are they not mapping them or also 
>(incorrectly) deleting what others 
>mapped?
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Re: [talk-au] Undiscussed edits to Australian Tagging Guidelines on tagging footpaths/cycleways (Was: Discussion D: mapping ACT for cyclists – complying with ACT law)

[David Wales]

Why did he remove the bridge tag?

On 5 October 2019 8:16:35 pm AEST, Andrew Davidson  wrote:
>On 4/10/19 10:53 pm, Andy Townsend wrote:
>> 
>>
>https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1698#issuecomment-134914770
>
>> 
>
>Thanks for that. I hadn't realised there was yet another prioblem with 
>using the path tag: highway=path bicycle=designated is currently 
>rendered differently to highway=path bicycle=yes. As previously 
>discussed, in Australia the only difference between yes and designated 
>can be the cycleway being old enough for the bikes to have worn the 
>markings off. So we'd end up with a map that just tells us where the 
>signage is still OK.
>
>> the likes of https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24377739 in 
>> Perth would also fit too.  
>
>Oh marvelous. Having edited the wiki page he's now editing the map to 
>match his new tagging policy:
>
>http://osm.mapki.com/history/way.php?id=24377739
>
>> the 1-liner descriptions you 
>> see at e.g. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/highway#values 
>> reflect this use
>
>Classic OSM documentation...the one hand can't agree with the other.
>
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Re: [talk-au] Discussion H: public transport – the end game

[David Wales]

This is a good point.

Is there a moderator who could check if something like this is the case?

Regards,
David

On 2 October 2019 10:46:00 pm AEST, Mateusz Konieczny  
wrote:
>
>
>2 Oct 2019, 09:19 by e...@mapillary.com:
>
>> For the health of the mailing list, it would make sense to limit his
>communications so we're not bombarded daily with his emails.
>>
>Volume is not the biggest problem -
>and it would be probably acceptable.
>
>For me main problem is "fire and forget"
>mode.
>
>Is he even reading replies?
>
>Maybe he is unable to respond because
>he had monthly digest or something
>similarly problematic?
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Re: [talk-au] Discussion E: how to find faults in maps

[David Wales]

An example from the page Warin linked which may interest you is the
[Bicycle Tags map][1].
[1]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle_tags_map)

For example, [here is Canberra][2] with all 'highway=cycleway' and
'bicycle=yes' tagged ways highlighted:
[2]:
http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~ligfietser/fiets/index.html?map=cycleways=13=-35.32063=149.12057=B00TFT

Another link from the page Warin mentioned is [Osmose][3].
[3]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmose

Here is [an example][4] with just cycleway errors flagged in Canberra:
[4]:
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/#zoom=13=-35.2845=149.122==1%2C2%2C3=cycleway=

If you have some knowledge of a tag that should be applied, you can use
JOSM filters to find which ways are missing the tag. For example, I use
filters to find roads which are missing speed limits.

Here are an [introduction][5] and [documentation][6] for JOSM filters.
[5]: https://blog.mapbox.com/using-filters-in-josm-99a7415f6235
[6]: https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Dialog/Filter

An example filter is ('|' means inclusive 'OR'):

    highway=cycleway | bicycle=yes | bicycle=designated
   
By default, filters hide the selected tags. I have selected the 'invert'
option to hide everything except the selected tags.

See an [example of the above filter][7] here.
[7]: https://imgur.com/VNmUDWN

Regards,
David Wales

On 29/9/19 8:50 am, Warin wrote:
> On 29/09/19 07:30, Herbert.Remi via Talk-au wrote:
>>
>> I welcome your comments.
>>
>
> 1) This is not Australian specific.
> 2) The topic is an FAQ
> 3) Before you post .. do some research
>
> Read and use the tools from here 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quality_assurance
>
> There are at least 264 fixmes in the ACT, that is more than 'dozens'
> you state.
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Discussion C: mapping on the street

[David Wales]

Hi Herbert,

Have you tried any of the apps listed on the Wiki?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Software/Mobile


Android:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Android

iOS:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Apple_iOS

For editing on iOS I have used Go Map:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Go_Map!!

On Android I use Vespucci and StreetComplete:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vespucci

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete

StreetComplete allows one to place a note on the map with an image attached. 
You can then view the note and the image in iD or JOSM. StreetComplete also 
suggests edits to apply directly to the map, such as adding opening hours, etc.

Vespucci allows editing of pretty much anything, but is a bit tricky to use 
with a touchscreen because of this.

Go Map!! is similar to Vespucci, but on iOS with a slightly simpler interface. 

Some navigation applications such as OSMAnd allow for limited editing and 
creation of points of interest. For instance, I used it to add some shops 
directly to the map recently.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OsmAnd

Regards,
David Wales

On 27 September 2019 9:05:18 am AEST, "Herbert.Remi via Talk-au" 
 wrote:
>Discussion C: mapping on the street
>OSM is great. I showed it to an organisation as large A0 maps of
>Canberra. The largest size that I could print. The maps still covered
>the whole board table when I left. I demonstrated an android app to the
>CEO. They had never heard of OSM of course. "Its a bit like Google
>maps." I cannot tell you how often I have heard that. I hope it will
>get the conversation going. Thank you for everybody's efforts. :-)
>But to the point…
>
>mapping on the street
>It is new and exciting, with people in the cafes but OSM says the
>street building site. We have all experienced this.
>JOSM and ID editors are excellent, but you cannot take them with you.
>The ACTmapi Images 2019 are great, but they are almost a year out of
>date. GPX tracks help but the editing is post-processing. It would be
>ideal to correct the maps in real-time on the street. Canberra is
>changing so fast, it is hard to keep up with.
>It would be best to map on the street. When something needs correcting
>mark it with a comment (or photo) for correction immediately (FIXME).
>The app would run on the smartphone continuously showing the most
>current maps, can this be done?
>I welcome your comments.
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[talk-au] Centrelink locations

[David Wales]

Dear Talk-AU,

I have found a dataset on data.gov.au with Centrelink addresses, locations and 
opening hours. 

https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-70c2b2fe-2a32-450e-98dc-453fe4a02aae/details?q=Centrelink

I was unable to find this data in the Australian data catalogue. 

It is licensed as Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Australia.

Has a waiver already been sent for this data, or should I send one?

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Re: [talk-au] topic A: the platform itself

[David Wales]

I am a member of some international OSM Slack channels.

However, because it requires a whole different app (which I only have space for 
on my computer), I only check it monthly at best.

On the other hand, I read every talk-au message within a few days of original 
posting, because they all arrive in my email inbox on my phone.

If the number of talk-au emails reaches overwhelming levels, it might be 
necessary to investigate other solutions. However, I don't think we have 
reached that point yet.

If we ever did explore alternatives, I would prefer an open platform, which we 
can host ourselves, rather than Slack or some other proprietary system.

Regards,
David

On 20 September 2019 4:31:44 pm AEST, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
>Hi,
>
>On 9/20/19 03:14, Herbert.Remi via Talk-au wrote:
>> I will post several concerns and information on several issues, but
>the
>> first is this platform itself. 
>
>You call this platform a "forum" which is ok in the abstract sense, but
>note that there is actually an Australia forum in addition to this
>Australia mailing list
>(https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=24). The forum
>provides a slightly different user experience but is used less.
>
>In other countries, people have set up Slack channels or Facebook
>groups
>or even more esoteric channels of communication, in addition of or as a
>replacement for mailing lists - browse
>https://github.com/osmlab/osm-community-index if you want to get an
>idea.
>
>There's no strict rule about where the OSM community should discuss
>their issues, however media that requires prior registration with a
>third-party entity - like Slack or Facebook - are sometimes frowned
>upon
>as they give control over who can participate to that third party and
>might require the participant to agree to wide-ranging exploitation of
>their personal data by a commercial entity.
>
>In Germany where I hail from, the forum and the mailing list are used
>by
>about the same number of (but largely different) people, and since the
>total number of contributors is large enough to guarantee lively
>discussion on both, that's totally fine. Germany also has mailing lists
>for individual states but they are used very little, and even
>state-specific issues would often be discussed on the nationwide list
>to
>ensure they get enough attention.
>
>Speaking very generally, OSM has achieved the success it has with a
>"just do it" attitude: Instead of saying, 15 years ago, "BEFORE we
>start, let's come up with a good data scheme and a feature catalogue",
>people said "let's just start and then fix things as we go along".
>
>My recommendation would be to just stat discussing whatever needs
>discussing on the talk-au mailing list and branch out as the need
>arises. If something is worth discussing then a non-ideal UI should not
>be the blocker, and if it is, then maybe the issue is not so important.
>
>Bye
>Frederik
>
>-- 
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>E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [talk-au] [Imports] Australia / Victoria / Melbourne - VicMap Property

[David Wales]

Forwarding this to talk-au.

On 1/9/19 9:57 am, Simon Jackson wrote:
> *Short Version:*
> https://arcg.is/0Tu8Tb*
> *
> Start a discussion on incorporating the VicMap Property dataset into OSM.
> *
> *
> *Longer Version:*
> DELWP is the state agency for Victoria in Australia, whom are
> authoritative providers of the VicMap dataset.
> *
> *
> *The Data*
> The VicMap dataset consists of a number of layers that have been made
> available as open data under a creative commons license.  
>
> An update of the data is made available every couple of weeks via a
> few different endpoints.  
>
> There are a couple of layers that as an OSM user, I would would be of
> value to consider for an initial bulk import
>  of data, and then
> potentially looking at workflows to sync the importing of the
> incremental deltas through periodically.
>
> */VicMap Property:/*
> https://discover.data.vic.gov.au/dataset/property-view-vicmap-property  
>
> */VicMap Address:/*
> https://discover.data.vic.gov.au/dataset/address-vicmap-address  
>
> *
> *
> *Who am I?*
>
>   * I use OSM as a basemap and for network analysis, but I have not
> contributed to OSM (I plan to do a small area of VicMap Property
> on my street after this email using the ArcGIS OSM tools). 
>   * Day job is at Esri Australia, and work with the VicMap team, so
> might be able to field any Qs into that team if need be.  (Today
> is Sunday, this request is nothing to do with work).
>   * I would be happy toassist in the the import process
> 
> ,
> but of course wanted to reach out to the OSM community first and
> get an understanding on how (if at all) I can help.
>
>
> Thanks
> Simon
>
>
>
> Further Reference:
> https://twitter.com/SimonGIS/status/1120967795406032896 
>  
> WMS
> Server: 
> http://services.land.vic.gov.au/catalogue/publicproxy/guest/dv_geoserver/wms?SERVICE=WMS
>
>
>
> -- 
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> +61 (0)447735786
>
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Re: [talk-au] play ground locations and much more from open data source but how?

[David Wales]

If you want some practice with this sort of thing, feel free to help out with 
the NSW Address import:

https://gitlab.com/dionmoult/osm-nsw-address-import

On 18 August 2019 2:13:04 pm AEST, Andrew Davidson  wrote:
>On 18/8/19 11:07 am, Herbert.Remi via Talk-au wrote:
>> how to do this?
>
>Step 1 read this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines
>
>> I want to upload the play ground locations to OSM.
>
>It's not just a case of "uploading". A large number of playgrounds in 
>Canberra have already been mapped. Most of the work for a playgrounds 
>import would be checking all of the existing mapped playgrounds and 
>figuring out if they are in the dataset, missing from the dataset, or 
>don't exist on the ground. Then you need to work out if the playgrounds
>
>in the ACTmapi dataset are in the right location and actually exist.
>
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Re: [talk-au] Residential Poolside Building

[David Wales]

I mainly do it if I need a break from adding useful data... And it makes the 
map look pretty.

Also, could it be useful for fire fighters?

On 13 August 2019 9:50:01 am AEST, Andrew Davidson  wrote:
>On 13/8/19 09:22, Ian Sergeant wrote:
>> For OSM it's nothing more than a colouring-in exercise.
>
>Once again it depends on what use you think the data is going to be
>used 
>for. If you're interested in selling tennis court maintenance services 
>then it's useful information. Maybe you're interested in the spatial 
>distribution of tennis courts and their relationship to polo grounds?
>
>> I agree with Andrew that marking a building next to a private
>swimming pool
>> as anything other than "building=yes", almost always calls for pure
>> speculation.  Whether it's a pool shed, cabana or outside dunny.
>
>Unless source=survey 
>
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Re: [talk-au] Residential Poolside Building

[David Wales]

I think in this day and age, we can't really consider anything private
if it's visible from space...

Apple appears to be mapping backyard tennis courts now.
https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps

Just make sure that you tag them as access=private !

On 12/8/19 7:58 pm, Warin wrote:
> On 12/08/19 19:46, Benjamin Ceravolo wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been tracing in residential swimming pools and I have not as yet
>> found an appropriate tagging for the small poolside buildings that
>> (from my experience); may have an area to get changed and to store
>> pool-toys, chemicals and other pool care items.
>>
>> My current guess is just to mark it as: building=yes
>>
>> If there are any other tags I have missed or if I'm just being blind
>> and missing something obvious, I would like to hear your
>> option/response.
>
> Caution: there are some who object to 'private' things being mapped.
>
> These buildings my have toilets and showers too, tags exist for these.
> I would like a tag for changing rooms, some sports venues have them,
> some beach side buildings have them. Amenity=changing_rooms?
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Removing "WikiProject" prefix

[David Wales]

Hi Daniel,

Sounds good!

Thanks.

On 26 July 2019 7:05:53 am AEST, dcapillae  wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am Daniel, from Spain. I would like to change the name of the wiki 
>pages related to the Australia mapping project to remove the 
>"Wikiproject" prefix following the pages name conventions [1].
>
>The name of the pages related to the Australia mapping project would be
>
>"Australia" (name of place) instead of "Wikiproject Australia", as 
>recommended by the wiki conventions. It is a change that I have already
>
>made in United States [2], Canada [3], Spain [4], and all 
>Spanish-speaking countries [5] on the Wiki.
>
>I could make the necessary changes, and also add the "Country" template
>
>[6] to the Australia project page, although this change is optional.
>
>All pages with "WikiProject" prefix will be redirected automatically. 
>There will be no broken links in any case.  I'll make sure everything 
>works correctly, just like now.
>
>Do you like the idea? I have posted this message on the wiki in case
>you 
>prefer to comment there [7].
>
>Thank you for you attention! Greetings from Spain.
>
>Regards,
>Daniel
>
>[1] 
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wiki_organisation#Pages_naming_convention
>[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States
>[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada
>[4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Spain
>[5]
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Spanish_speaking_countries
>[6] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Country
>[7] 
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:WikiProject_Australia#Removing_.22WikiProject.22_prefix
>
>
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[talk-au] Map use without attribution

[David Wales]

Hi Talk-AU,

I've just noticed some OSM tiles which are being used without attribution.
https://www.westernsydney.edu.au/future/our-campuses/liverpool-city-campus.html

Here is the same location in OSM:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Liverpool%2C%20nsw#map=17/-33.92121/150.92614

Is this substantial enough to be worth contacting the website owner?

Relevant links:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Substantial_-_Guideline

Regards,
David Wales




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Re: [talk-au] Maxweight signs question

[David Wales]

Hi Mateusz,

One of the NSW signs is on this page:

https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/heavy-vehicles/index.html

Some other variations can be seen in these OpenStreetCam images.
Note that OpenStreetCam sometimes crops the edges of the images,
depending on the aspect ratio of your browser window. Resizing the
window, or clicking and dragging the image will allow you to see the
edges of the images:

https://openstreetcam.org/details/1348929/761/track-info
https://openstreetcam.org/details/1348929/763/track-info
https://openstreetcam.org/details/1348929/766/track-info
https://openstreetcam.org/details/1348929/779/track-info
https://openstreetcam.org/details/1359722/744/track-info
https://openstreetcam.org/details/1343611/1763/track-info

Regards,
David Wales

On 24/6/19 10:24 am, Ewen Hill wrote:
> Good morning  Mateusz ,
>    A lot of the tertiary roads in Australia are under local government
> authority ownership Mateusz. So we have a single Federal Government
> and then the states and territories and finally under that local
> government. In Victoria, there are 77 local government authorities
> (mainly shires and councils).
>  
>   A lot of these rural shires have little money and so a lot of older
> signs may be still found, especially on creek crossings on dirt roads
> that are pre standardisation. Also, the state governments looks after
> a lot of the forest reserves through their "conservation" department
> or similar. These signs on logging roads may also differ, mainly due
> to the vastness of the network.
>
> The axle signs I haven't seen but as a cyclist I don't look too
> closely at these. I do know that there is a Victorian database of road
> and bridge limits however I don't know where copyright sits but would
> have a decent guess that it is not available to OSM.
>
> Thanks for all your work. 
>
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:49, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com
> <mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 24/06/19 05:49, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>> How weight limit signs in Australia looks like? Especially on
>> bridges?
>>
>> I found https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/signs/regulatory
>> with "Bridge load limit signs" that have two examples:
>> https://www.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0020/42824/r6-3.png
>> https://www.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0013/42700/r6-17.png
>>
>> is the same set of signs used in 5 other states?
> Similar
> https://nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/378221/hvdh-section5.pdf
>> is "per axle group" commonly used or is it an extremely rare
>> curiosity?
> Most don't drive trucks so they pay no attention to them.
>
> There are maximum weights and dimensions that vehicle have to
> comply with. Major roads have bridges that withstand those
> maximums so they have no signs for that. It is only on lesser
> roads where a bridge cannot carry that maximum load that you
> should find these signs. I would think short bridges may well
> carry axle limits.
>
>
>> is this sign using short ton or long ton or normal tonnes (=1000
>> kg) as an unit?
>>
> We are a metric country now. So 1tonne = 1000kg.
>> -
>>
>> According to sources that I also encountered design like US
>> signs, like
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_R12-1.svg
>> is at least sometimes used in Australia.
>>
>> Is it correct? (my sources were quite dubious so...)
>
> Unfortunately the road signs are under Australian Standard, AS
> 1743:2018. Australian Standards are copyright ... most will say
> that is ridiculous!
> But there we are. So finding examples of signs can be difficult. I
> can go and look at the AS, but I cannot copy it (I did have the
> capability at work, but had to declare it - special licence) ... I
> can photo signs beside the road ... There are some examples in
> learn to drive booklets, but I have not found any with the truck
> weight limits as yet.
>
> Some older signs may still be found but they will be replace with
> AS 1743:2018 signs.
> See
> 
> https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/BuildingRoads/StandardsTechnical/RoadandTrafficEngineering/TrafficManagement/AustralianStandardSigns/Pages/home.aspx
> for some old examples.
>
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Wadbilliga Road south east NSW marked 4WD only

[David Wales]

Forgot to reply to the list...
Take 2.
Also, here is a description http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showpost.php?s=df502a2c56c4e13e0de74c9fa678bd02=1449763=2>
of the road from someone who has driven it:


Hi Warin,

Is it possible for a road to be both tertiary AND 4WD only?
The LPI Base Map appears tertiary, but the LPI NSW Imagery is definitely
a dirt road.
It's hard to tell from the imagery whether the dirt road is 4WD only.

The National Parks website describes it as a 4WD touring route, although
it doesn't specifically say that is impassable for 2WDs:
https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/things-to-do/4wd-touring-routes/wadbilliga-road-drive

This website describes it as:

"Difficulty: Moderate
Length: 10km to 30km
Type:
Sharp Rocks
Steep ascents/descents
River crossing(s)"

https://tracks.4x4earth.com/4wd-track/wadbilliga-road/820

Regards,
David Wales

On 18/6/19 4:05 pm, Warin wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This appears to be an error. On the LPI Base map it looks like a
> tertiary rd..
>
> Way: Wadbilliga Road (380747553) ... this extends to the east as well.
>
>
> Any objections to removing the 4WD only and upping it to tertiary class?
>
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Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Currently, OSM is rendering water throughout the suburbs of Perth

[David Wales]

Thanks Simon.

Good to know.

On 17 June 2019 9:45:24 pm AEST, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
>Should be fixed now thanks to Tom Hughes, seems as if the unpacking of
>the coastline files ran out of space.
>
>Note: neither a private slack channel nor a "relatively" obscure
>mailing
>list are suitable channels for reporting operational problems. The
>general OSM IRC channel or the operations github repo issue tracker are
>what you should be using is you really want something to be fixed.
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Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Currently, OSM is rendering water throughout the suburbs of Perth

[David Wales]

Zooming to at least level 15 in Egypt shows water coverage too.
I think it's definitely a rendering issue.

On 17/6/19 6:16 pm, David Wales wrote:
> Consensus on Slack is that it is a rendering issue specific to
> Australian tile mirrors.
> When I route my VPN through the Netherlands or the US, the water goes
> away.
> But routing through Japan is still flooded...
>
> Do we know who runs rendering for tiles in this region?
>
> Regards,
> David Wales
>
> On 17/6/19 5:12 pm, Warin wrote:
>> The Great Flood continues. I note it is happening in Perth .. so not
>> an issue with the Tasman Sea as I thought.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16/06/19 20:52, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>>> It happens regularly in many places across the world. It is a data
>>> issue,
>>> especially as rendering bug would become visible after map style update.
>>>
>>>
>>> 16 Jun 2019, 12:02 by ewen.h...@gmail.com:
>>>
>>> Hi, 
>>>   Has anyone else noticed that the great flood of 2019 is on us.
>>> I can't find the issue so is it a mapping issue or a rendering
>>> issue please as I cannot find the source?
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Currently, OSM is rendering water throughout the suburbs of Perth

[David Wales]

Consensus on Slack is that it is a rendering issue specific to
Australian tile mirrors.
When I route my VPN through the Netherlands or the US, the water goes away.
But routing through Japan is still flooded...

Do we know who runs rendering for tiles in this region?

Regards,
David Wales

On 17/6/19 5:12 pm, Warin wrote:
> The Great Flood continues. I note it is happening in Perth .. so not
> an issue with the Tasman Sea as I thought.
>
>
>
> On 16/06/19 20:52, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>> It happens regularly in many places across the world. It is a data issue,
>> especially as rendering bug would become visible after map style update.
>>
>>
>> 16 Jun 2019, 12:02 by ewen.h...@gmail.com:
>>
>> Hi, 
>>   Has anyone else noticed that the great flood of 2019 is on us.
>> I can't find the issue so is it a mapping issue or a rendering
>> issue please as I cannot find the source?
>>
>
>
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[talk-au] Tagging frontage roads

[David Wales]

Dear Talk-AU,

Should frontage roads be tagged with names?

I have read the wiki page:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Frontage_road

Consider this changeset:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/71199742

I am not sure if the two frontage roads should tagged with the name of
the main road ("Thirlmere Way"),
or if they should be left unnamed.

(The street address of the houses on the frontage roads is "Thirlmere Way".)

Regards,
David Wales



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Re: [talk-au] use of addr:unit

[David Wales]

Hi Sebastian,

My current approach is to keep the node which refers to the general
address (e.g. addr:housenumber=115),
and to put the other nodes (e.g. 1/115, 2/115, 3/115, 4/115) into a
'FOR-MANUAL-REVIEW' file.

My theory is that if someone is motivated to map them properly, they can
then do the full 3D indoor mapping!

Regards,
David Wales

On 19/5/19 1:41 pm, Sebastian S. wrote:
> Well David my question originated from the address import undertaking.
> As I was dispersing nodes I though why not combine all into one and
> add the information via the unit tag.
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> On 17 May 2019 2:14:00 pm AEST, David Wales 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> If you want to go crazy, you could try Simple Indoor Tagging:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Simple_Indoor_Tagging
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Indoor_Mapping
>
> This allows you to separately map each floor of the building, thus
> allowing each address to be mapped specifically!
>
> Regards,
> David Wales
>
> On 17/5/19 9:53 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>> Agreed,  if it's an apartment block, then just the street address
>> should be enough. The unit field would be more helpful for say
>> townhouses where the units are spread out and you could tag
>> individually, or shops as Graeme notes.
>>
>> There is
>> also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building:flats which
>> you can add to t he block of flats/apartments to tag how many
>> units are contained in the building. This is useful for people to
>> determine density (even though most people would just use GNAF
>> etc for this rather than OSM, some new developments OSM could be
>> ahead of GNAF and the other state address databases).
>>
>> On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 08:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick
>> mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 May 2019 at 23:51, Andrew Harvey
>> mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> To me they are all the same. I think addr:flats given
>> it's documented on the wiki and is in use is the best tag
>> to use. Open to other opinions.
>>
>>
>> I usually just tag the whole building with the street address
>> (100 This Street, Somewhere, QLD, 1234), & then only add
>> individual unit numbers for shops / offices etc (shop=butcher
>> is Unit 1, 100 This Street ...), rather than residential units.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] use of addr:unit

[David Wales]

Hi Sebastian,

If you want to go crazy, you could try Simple Indoor Tagging:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Simple_Indoor_Tagging
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Indoor_Mapping

This allows you to separately map each floor of the building, thus
allowing each address to be mapped specifically!

Regards,
David Wales

On 17/5/19 9:53 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> Agreed,  if it's an apartment block, then just the street address
> should be enough. The unit field would be more helpful for say
> townhouses where the units are spread out and you could tag
> individually, or shops as Graeme notes.
>
> There is
> also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building:flats which you
> can add to t he block of flats/apartments to tag how many units are
> contained in the building. This is useful for people to determine
> density (even though most people would just use GNAF etc for this
> rather than OSM, some new developments OSM could be ahead of GNAF and
> the other state address databases).
>
> On Fri, 17 May 2019 at 08:13, Graeme Fitzpatrick
> mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, 16 May 2019 at 23:51, Andrew Harvey
> mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> To me they are all the same. I think addr:flats given it's
> documented on the wiki and is in use is the best tag to use.
> Open to other opinions.
>
>
> I usually just tag the whole building with the street address (100
> This Street, Somewhere, QLD, 1234), & then only add individual
> unit numbers for shops / offices etc (shop=butcher is Unit 1, 100
> This Street ...), rather than residential units.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] What data is useful - request for ideas

[David Dean]

Hi Bob,

You're doing some great work with collecting imagery data with Mapillary.
We really appreciate that sort of data available for armchair mapping.

I'd love to meet up for a coffee when you are back up in Armidale, and talk
about your data collection process. I've been meaning to try and get some
comprehensive coverage of Armidale in Mapillary, but haven't really made
any proper moves in that direction just yet.

- David

On Tue, 7 May 2019 at 21:56, Bob Cameron  wrote:

> I don't do much OSM editing, but being permanently on the road in
> Australia I take Mapillary images that are a useful information layer.
>
> I would like to get an idea about what routes and features are useful for
> OSM editors, so that in my travels I can provide the best data.
>
> - Up until December last year I only uploaded 1280x720 images. I am now
> doing 4K (3840x2160)
> - Since mobile data costs are high I upload roughly every 3 months in NE
> NSW over NBN. The daily take is around 10-20GB.
> - I do not traverse cities or large towns. I am mostly on country roads
> and in smaller towns
> - I am currently near St George Qld going towards Griffith then up to
> Armidale in late May. I then embark for WA through Broken Hill, do some
> circling on the Eyre Peninsula, across to Norseman WA and probably the SW.
> - I don't do off road, but gravel is okay.
> - My username is bob3bob3. If you wish to check some of my 4K images, look
> around Armidale NSW and the Snowy.
>
> Ideas please?
>
> Thanks, Bob
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Re: [talk-au] Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data into OSM

[David Sisourath]

Hi all,

The import of street and park trees in Hobsons Bay has been complete. You may 
see the results on the import account 
page<https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/HobsonsBayCityCouncil_Import/history>.

I intend to continue the import of other Hobsons Bay open data, and have 
updated the import catalogue 
page<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue/Hobsons_Bay_City_Council>
 to match this. These datasets are much smaller than the street and park trees 
dataset, and all data will be checked with current OSM data before uploading.


Regards,

David

From: David Sisourath<mailto:david.sisour...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2019 3:34 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data into OSM

Hi,

I intend to import tree data in the Hobsons Bay LGA into OSM.

The data has been verified by myself with aerial imagery and DELWP/VicMap 
boundaries.

I will be importing small squares of data at a time, including the tree 
circumference, species (if known) or genus (if species unknown). Tree 
circumference in the data are grouped by ranges of 150mm. I have taken the 
maximum of these ranges to be the circumference in my code.

A source tag will be attached to each tree node imported, 
source=data.gov.au:Hobsons Bay City Council, and also on the relevant 
changesets.

A waiver has been signed by Hobsons Bay and is available on both the Australian 
Data Catalogue page and the 
Contributors<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Hobsons_Bay_City_Council_data>
 page.

Any questions or feedback regarding the import would be highly appreciated, 
including whether the approach to the circumference tag, and source tag is 
acceptable.


Regards,

David

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Re: [talk-au] Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data into OSM

[David Sisourath]

I will be adding the source tag to each tree imported, I also find that this 
may be useful to other contributors.

I have performed another import, this time in an area with existing trees in at 
St Anthony Court Reserve. Manual checking and merging of these trees has been 
performed.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/69238418

If there are no objections, I will be proceeding with the import in line with 
the details on the Import Catalogue page.

Thanks,
David


From: cleary 
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 11:23:13 AM
To: OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data into OSM


I have great respect for Andrew Harvey's mapping and I would generally defer to 
his views. However in this instance, I would say that I have found it generally 
useful if the source of information is included with individual items, whether 
trees, roads, waterways, buildings etc to assist any future edits. In the past, 
the lack of any source has sometimes caused me to think that the contributor 
has used a non-approved source for the information.  Further, if I am 
re-visiting an area of the map and have contradictory information, knowing the 
source of the original information may help to explain why I have now perceived 
a discrepancy and assists in determining whether or not modification might be 
necessary.  Sometimes it is possible to retrace and identify information from 
the original changeset but if multiple changes have been made, I find it 
difficult to trace back to the original .



On Mon, 15 Apr 2019, at 10:38 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 22:31, Sebastian Spiess 
mailto:mapp...@consebt.de>> wrote:

Are there guidelines how to mark the import in the changeset? Not having read 
up on it but I would think the changeset should reference the wiki page for the 
import?
I think just adding the link in the changeset comment should suffice.
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Re: [talk-au] Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data into OSM

[David Sisourath]

Hi Sebastian,

Thanks for the feedback. The trees seen in the adjacent Wyndham City Council 
have actually been manually mapped by another contributor.

I will change the changeset comments to be ‘Hobsons Bay Tree Import - 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue/Hobsons_Bay_City_Council’.

I have also decided to create a dedicated OSM account for the import. This will 
be called HobsonsBayCityCouncil_Import with the user description linking to the 
import page.

Let me know if anything on the import page is unclear or if anything needs 
changing. I will be undertaking another test import, this time in an area with 
existing trees.

Thanks,
David


From: Sebastian Spiess 
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 10:31:36 PM
To: David Sisourath; Andrew Harvey
Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data into OSM


Hi David,

I'd like to say that the test import looks very impressive on the map. Thank 
you for your effort on this.

Are there guidelines how to mark the import in the changeset? Not having read 
up on it but I would think the changeset should reference the wiki page for the 
import?

For those who are interested in the import, see the wiki here: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue/Hobsons_Bay_City_Council

Cheers, Seb

On 14/4/19 10:45 pm, David Sisourath wrote:
Thanks Andrew, I have looked at all of the tags in the raw data and have 
created a Python file to process this.

I have considered the ‘Unknown’, ‘Not Applicable’ and also removed the trees 
where they are ‘stumps’ or ‘vacant’.

The data is linked here:
https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-80051ffe-04d5-4602-b15b-60e0d0e3d153/

I have actually proceeded with a test import on a small area in Seabrook. A 
reason why I think a source tag would be useful is the identification of 
imported trees in subsequent updates from Council being imported.

I note that this test import is easily reversible by me if plans do not 
eventuate.

The test import changeset is here:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/69182499#map=16/-37.8860/144.7627

Also, there is a non-existent boundary through Seabrook Primary School that 
renders on Mapnik. I noticed this during the test import and am unsure of the 
issue here.


Regards,

David



From: Andrew Harvey <mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 9:56:38 PM
To: David Sisourath
Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data into OSM

Great working on sourcing those waivers!

Do you either have a sample .osm file or could you post an example of what 
tags/values will be imported? Can you say anything further about how you will 
transform the data? ie. removing "Unknown" values etc.

Regarding the source tag, I think it must be on the changeset, but can 
optionally be on each object as well. It was once pointed out to me that the 
source on the object may lead to editors thinking they can't change/touch the 
object, and it can also be misleading when changes subsequently happen. Mind 
you, I still add source, source:geometry, source:name etc. tags where I feel 
it's appropriate manually, I just don't think it's essential to have them on 
each object.

Feel free to post a link to this thread 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2019-April/012577.html as a 
changeset tag or comment to help link the import back to this discussion.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2019 at 15:35, David Sisourath 
mailto:david.sisour...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,

I intend to import tree data in the Hobsons Bay LGA into OSM.

The data has been verified by myself with aerial imagery and DELWP/VicMap 
boundaries.

I will be importing small squares of data at a time, including the tree 
circumference, species (if known) or genus (if species unknown). Tree 
circumference in the data are grouped by ranges of 150mm. I have taken the 
maximum of these ranges to be the circumference in my code.

A source tag will be attached to each tree node imported, 
source=data.gov.au:Hobsons Bay City Council, and also on the relevant 
changesets.

A waiver has been signed by Hobsons Bay and is available on both the Australian 
Data Catalogue page and the 
Contributors<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Hobsons_Bay_City_Council_data>
 page.

Any questions or feedback regarding the import would be highly appreciated, 
including whether the approach to the circumference tag, and source tag is 
acceptable.


Regards,

David
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Re: [talk-au] Rock Overhangs

[David Wales]

I support natural=rock_overhang, or something similar. 

David

On 14 April 2019 10:14:44 pm AEST, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>Ok, thanks for the feedback. Let's gather some global thoughts on this,
>I've posted
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-April/044554.html
>
>On Sun, 14 Apr 2019 at 16:23, Roger Browne 
>wrote:
>
>> I've never been happy about "natural=cave_entrance", yet I have used
>it
>> several times because it seems to be the least bad of the tags
>currently in
>> use.
>>
>> The use of "amenity' is just wrong, because an amenity is something
>that
>> is provided for a purpose (such as a cafe, bicycle parking, a
>charging
>> station, a table, etc):
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:amenity
>> Furthermore, every other type of "shelter" has a
>deliberately-constructed
>> roof (hut, picnic shelter, changing shed, sunshade, etc).
>>
>> A rock overhang is something natural that just exists. To my mind it
>> absolutely belongs under "natural". The ideal would simply be
>> "natural=rock_overhang". A map should tell it like it is, and not
>> complicate things by trying to "fit a square shelter_type into a
>round
>> amenity".
>>
>> Roger.
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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 142, Issue 14

[David Sisourath]

Hi Mateusz,

Thanks for the feedback.

I have read the Import Guidelines and I will be documenting the import on the 
wiki by tomorrow noon and you will see this on the import catalogue page at 
that time.

I do not think that the outdated tree circumference data would be an issue. 
Going by what Google says, it takes around 10 years for trees to gain 150mm to 
their circumference, and thus move into the next range of values.

This goes on to the next point of future imports or updates of data. I have put 
in a source tag to allow easy identification of imported trees. Future imports 
may need to involve a lot more manual checking. I would welcome you to suggest 
a way forward for updates in the future.

There are a not insignificant amount of trees in the Seabrook Sandstone Point 
and Carinza Reserve areas, manually mapped either through survey or aerial 
imagery. Note that outside these two reserves, there are only 11 other existing 
trees within the Hobsons Bay City Council area.

In most instances I will keep the location of the existing tree if alignment 
with aerial imagery is accurate, and add relevant circumference and species 
tags from Council data if possible.

I hope this resolves some of your concerns.


Regards,

David


Message: 3
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2019 09:47:22 +0200 (CEST)
From: Mateusz Konieczny 
Cc: "talk-au@openstreetmap.org" 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data
into OSM
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


Note that https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines 
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines> requires
some documentation of import itself on the wiki.

Apr 14, 2019, 7:34 AM by david.sisour...@hotmail.com:

>
> including the tree circumference
>
>
 Are there plan to update it in the future or delete once outdated (especially 
for currently young trees)?
Or skip data that will get outdated very quickly?


>
> Any questions or feedback regarding the import would be highly appreciated, 
> including whether the approach to the circumference tag, and source tag is 
> acceptable
>
>
Are there any individual trees mapped in this area? If yes - how you will avoid
both duplicating existing ones or deleting data with quality better than in the 
import?

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--

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Re: [talk-au] Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data into OSM

[David Sisourath]

Thanks Andrew, I have looked at all of the tags in the raw data and have 
created a Python file to process this.

I have considered the ‘Unknown’, ‘Not Applicable’ and also removed the trees 
where they are ‘stumps’ or ‘vacant’.

The data is linked here:
https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-80051ffe-04d5-4602-b15b-60e0d0e3d153/

I have actually proceeded with a test import on a small area in Seabrook. A 
reason why I think a source tag would be useful is the identification of 
imported trees in subsequent updates from Council being imported.

I note that this test import is easily reversible by me if plans do not 
eventuate.

The test import changeset is here:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/69182499#map=16/-37.8860/144.7627

Also, there is a non-existent boundary through Seabrook Primary School that 
renders on Mapnik. I noticed this during the test import and am unsure of the 
issue here.


Regards,

David



From: Andrew Harvey 
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 9:56:38 PM
To: David Sisourath
Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data into OSM

Great working on sourcing those waivers!

Do you either have a sample .osm file or could you post an example of what 
tags/values will be imported? Can you say anything further about how you will 
transform the data? ie. removing "Unknown" values etc.

Regarding the source tag, I think it must be on the changeset, but can 
optionally be on each object as well. It was once pointed out to me that the 
source on the object may lead to editors thinking they can't change/touch the 
object, and it can also be misleading when changes subsequently happen. Mind 
you, I still add source, source:geometry, source:name etc. tags where I feel 
it's appropriate manually, I just don't think it's essential to have them on 
each object.

Feel free to post a link to this thread 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2019-April/012577.html as a 
changeset tag or comment to help link the import back to this discussion.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2019 at 15:35, David Sisourath 
mailto:david.sisour...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,

I intend to import tree data in the Hobsons Bay LGA into OSM.

The data has been verified by myself with aerial imagery and DELWP/VicMap 
boundaries.

I will be importing small squares of data at a time, including the tree 
circumference, species (if known) or genus (if species unknown). Tree 
circumference in the data are grouped by ranges of 150mm. I have taken the 
maximum of these ranges to be the circumference in my code.

A source tag will be attached to each tree node imported, 
source=data.gov.au:Hobsons Bay City Council, and also on the relevant 
changesets.

A waiver has been signed by Hobsons Bay and is available on both the Australian 
Data Catalogue page and the 
Contributors<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Hobsons_Bay_City_Council_data>
 page.

Any questions or feedback regarding the import would be highly appreciated, 
including whether the approach to the circumference tag, and source tag is 
acceptable.


Regards,

David
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[talk-au] Importing Hobsons Bay City Council tree data into OSM

[David Sisourath]

Hi,

I intend to import tree data in the Hobsons Bay LGA into OSM.

The data has been verified by myself with aerial imagery and DELWP/VicMap 
boundaries.

I will be importing small squares of data at a time, including the tree 
circumference, species (if known) or genus (if species unknown). Tree 
circumference in the data are grouped by ranges of 150mm. I have taken the 
maximum of these ranges to be the circumference in my code.

A source tag will be attached to each tree node imported, 
source=data.gov.au:Hobsons Bay City Council, and also on the relevant 
changesets.

A waiver has been signed by Hobsons Bay and is available on both the Australian 
Data Catalogue page and the 
Contributors<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Hobsons_Bay_City_Council_data>
 page.

Any questions or feedback regarding the import would be highly appreciated, 
including whether the approach to the circumference tag, and source tag is 
acceptable.


Regards,

David
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Re: [talk-au] Shout out

[David Wales]

Fair enough.

Probably worth loading up some LPI NSW imagery and seeing if things look 
legitimate. 



On 10 April 2019 4:14:50 pm AEST, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Quible... no change set comments.
>It does look good, but I have not bothered to check any of it.
>
>
>On 10/04/19 16:08, Dion Moult wrote:
>> Awesome work! The user in question is "balcoath" - it looks great!
>>
>>
>> Dion Moult
>>
>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>> On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 1:43 PM, David Wales
> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Talk-AU,
>>>
>>> I just noticed evidence of some serious mapping commitment around
>Revesby.
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, one person has been tracing all the buildings
>in
>>> this area, for the last 8 years!
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/-33.9537/151.0142
>>>
>>> Impressive!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> David Wales
>>>
>>> Talk-au mailing list
>>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>>
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[talk-au] Shout out

[David Wales]

Hi Talk-AU,

I just noticed evidence of some serious mapping commitment around Revesby.

As far as I can tell, one person has been tracing all the buildings in
this area, for the last 8 years!

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/-33.9537/151.0142

Impressive!

Regards,
David Wales



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Re: [talk-au] Large contribution to update OSM rural / offroad tracks in Australia

[David Wales]

Hi James,

What license is that data under?
Is it owned by the users or by your company? 

Assuming it is owned by your company, would you be releasing the data itself, 
or just using it within your company to add tracks to OSM?

Do you know about the database of GPS tracks which is collected by 
OpenStreetMap, and available for anyone to use as a map overlay? Could your 
data be added to that?

Or were you thinking of something else?

Regards,
David Wales

On 3 April 2019 3:59:16 pm AEDT, James Nuccio  wrote:
>Hi OSM community!
>
>I'm relatively new to using and contributing to OSM but must say I'm
>really
>getting into it.  I am currently building a navigation app targeted
>towards
>the 4wding market which makes use of OSM.  Part of our offering is to
>geo-track our users as they navigate through the bush to better
>understand
>the 4wd tracks themselves.
>
>A byproduct of this process is that we have hundred of traces to be
>able to
>validate the geometry of current tracks, as well as add new tracks to
>the
>database.  All of these traces are an aggregation of user data, not
>traces
>of individual users.
>
>I am keen to get this info back into OSM but I'm looking for help as I
>don't have capacity to do so myself.  However I'd still like the
>contributions to be entered under my OSM userid.
>
>Is this something anyone can help with?  I'm based in Melbourne if that
>makes a difference.
>
>Cheers
>James
>
>-- 
>*James Nuccio*
>Founder and CEO
>Newtracs
>
>
>Web: www.newtracs.com.au
>Instagram: @newtracs4x4 <http://www.instagram.com/newtracs4x4>
>Facebook: @newtracs <http://www.facebock.com/newtracs/>
>Twitter: @newtracs <http://www.twitter.com/newtracs>
>
>
>
>-- 
>*James Nuccio*
>Founder and CEO
>Newtracs
>
>
>Web: www.newtracs.com.au
>Instagram: @newtracs4x4 <http://www.instagram.com/newtracs4x4>
>Facebook: @newtracs <http://www.facebock.com/newtracs/>
>Twitter: @newtracs <http://www.twitter.com/newtracs>
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Re: [talk-au] Rock Overhangs

[David Wales]

I tend to agree with Warin here.
Unless some human has carved the cave out, I don't think it should count
as an amenity!

On 1/4/19 9:07 am, Warin wrote:
> I object. 
> amenity=shelter I see as a man made object, some with better shelter
> than others.
> I think these should remain in the 'natural key space, possibly
> natural=overhang?
> 
> But then what do I know???
> 
> amenity=shelter has
> shelter_type
> =rock_shelter - A
> rock shelter is a shallow cave-like opening at the base of a bluff or cliff
> 
> and that looks to fit perfectly!
> 
> I'd not tag them as camp sites, let people evaluate them and the
> surrounds themselves for camping rather than suggest a place.
> 
> 
> On 01/04/19 08:39, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>>
>> > when (how deep) does a rock overhang / shelter become an actual cave? :-)
>>
>> Some judgement is needed, but the ones I've seen are pretty clear cut
>> as being one or the other.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dshelter just says
>> "A shelter  is
>> small place to protect against bad weather conditions." which is
>> mostly what these overhangs are used for, so I think it's the
>> appropriate tag. If that shelter is frequently used as a camp site
>> (now, not just historically) then can be tagged tourism=camp_site with
>> a few extra tags
>> from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism=camp_site to help
>> distinguish this small camp site from the larger ones.
>>
>>
>> Is "not meant for sleeping, no cooking or heating equipement inside"
>> supposed to be a criteria for a shelter?
>>
>> I would say no. We should tag the rock overhang for what it is, and
>> use tourism=camp_site to say if it's commonly used for sleeping too.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 08:07, Graeme Fitzpatrick > > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 at 18:14, Andrew Harvey
>> mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Rock overhangs (rock shelters) have been quite extensively
>> mistagged in Australia as natural=cave_entrance.
>>
>> Are there any objections to re-tagging these overhangs tagged
>> as natural=cave_entrance to amenity=shelter +
>> shelter_type=rock_shelter?
>>
>>
>> No real objection, Andrew, but when (how deep) does a rock
>> overhang / shelter become an actual cave? :-)
>>
>> Also noticed in the discussion comments on  
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter_type
>>
>>
>> "Can you look if this could be tagged as a
>> shelter ? 
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Champlitte,_%C3%A9craigne.jpg Tounoki
>> 
>> 
>>  (talk
>> 
>> )
>> 14:16, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
>>
>> If it is open to the public, not meant for sleeping, no
>> cooking or heating equipement inside, then yes, you could
>> use amenity
>> =shelter
>>  +shelter
>> =weather_shelter 
>> 
>> "
>>
>> Is "not meant for sleeping, no cooking or heating equipement
>> inside" supposed to be a criteria for a shelter?
>>
>> Some of the overhangs I've seen are pitch black underneath from
>> many thousands of years of cooking fires, & are acknowledged as
>> places that Aboriginal peoples camped during bad weather - does
>> that mean they're not shelters? (although I don't know what else
>> they would then be?)
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Help with overlapping features

[David Wales]

Hi Graham,

See this list of iD keyboard shortcuts:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID/Shortcuts

I think you need to select the connected nodes, and press 'D'.

Regards,
David

On 29 March 2019 12:07:39 pm AEDT, Graeme Fitzpatrick  
wrote:
>Hi
>
>Just doing some mapping around here
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/-28.8636/153.5756
>after a weeks holiday down there :-)
>
>If you have a look, there's a bit of a mess.
>
>The outer of the riverbank is 50 m's from the water up on dry land,
>wetlands have been marked in as also going up onto dry land, including
>over
>a road, footpath & houses!, & the boundary of the residential area has
>been
>tied to the riverbank, which is also tied to the footpath :-(
>
>Any easy way of fixing this, because I really don't want to delete
>everything & re-draw them!
>
>Thanks
>
>Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Help with overlapping features

[David Wales]

Hi Graham, 

Are you just wanting to unglue the ways from each other, so that you can move 
things around without moving other things around? 

On 29 March 2019 12:07:39 pm AEDT, Graeme Fitzpatrick  
wrote:
>Hi
>
>Just doing some mapping around here
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/-28.8636/153.5756
>after a weeks holiday down there :-)
>
>If you have a look, there's a bit of a mess.
>
>The outer of the riverbank is 50 m's from the water up on dry land,
>wetlands have been marked in as also going up onto dry land, including
>over
>a road, footpath & houses!, & the boundary of the residential area has
>been
>tied to the riverbank, which is also tied to the footpath :-(
>
>Any easy way of fixing this, because I really don't want to delete
>everything & re-draw them!
>
>Thanks
>
>Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Sydney mapathon

[David Wales]

Hi Ben and Dion,

Saturdays are normally good, but I'm moving house on the 23rd!
So if that's the date, I won't be able to make it.

Regards,
David Wales

On 18/3/19 1:29 pm, Ben Kelley wrote:
> Practically it will probably need to be a weekday evening, as we are not
> open on the weekend.
> 
> Also it will need to be a time I can make it. :)
> 
> 
>  - Ben Kelley
> 
> On 18/3/19 13:03, Dion Moult wrote:
>> Hey Ben! Thanks for the option!
>>
>> I'm going to tentatively suggest meeting this Saturday, 23rd March,
>> say after lunch, so 2:30pm? Just for a very informal mapping session
>> to see how things go, doesn't have to be a large crowd or anything?
>>
>> Ben, do you think it will be possible for us to use your office at
>> that time? I do not have a laptop, so I'm not sure if computers can be
>> used, or if that is against company policy?
>>
>> My company in North Sydney, walking distance from the train station,
>> offers wifi, but although I've started asking internally, there is a
>> little red tape before they might say yes to anything like providing
>> refreshments and allowing strangers in the office. Although I think
>> they might support this.
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>>
>>



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Re: [talk-au] Sydney mapathon

[David Wales]

Hi Dion,

I would be happy to meet up for an afternoon of mapping.
Saturdays are usually best for me.

Regards,
David Wales

On 15/3/19 11:26 am, Dion Moult wrote:
> Thanks for all the responses!
> 
> Interested people in joining:
> - Dion Moult (myself)
> - David Anderson (coworker at HDR)
> - David Wales
> - Sebastian
> 
> Currently Ritva is helping contact EWB to see if they are interested in
> running one in Sydney (as Engineers Without Borders is helping run one
> in Brisbane)
> 
> We are in need of an experienced mapper who can guide us in cases of
> uncertainty :)
> 
> I wonder, if prior to a larger event we are keen to simply just meet up
> casually for a weekend afternoon somewhere in Sydney and do some mapping
> together to see how we fare? If things work out well that might give us
> a bit of confidence to grow the group and do it a bit more regularly :)
> 
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
> 
> 
> 
>  Original Message 
> On 11 Mar. 2019, 5:08 pm, Sebastian < mapp...@consebt.de> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello Dion,
> Hello all,
> 
> I am also interested in a mapathon as well as connecting with other
> mappers on the Northern Beaches.
> 
> With regards to experience I am not sure where I should place myself.
> Have mapped a few things but I'm learning something new most days.
> 
> Regards,
> Sebastian
> 
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Re: [talk-au] Sydney mapathon

[David Wales]

Hi Dion,

I would be interested in participating.
I don't know of I count as experienced, but I'm happy to help any newbies!

Regards,
David Wales

On 11 March 2019 8:05:58 am AEDT, Dion Moult  wrote:
>Good morning all!
>
>I recently had a chat with Ritva from WSP in Brisbane, who told me how
>they organised mapathons as part of the missing maps initiative in
>Brisbane.
>
>I was inspired by this and checked the upcoming events page on missing
>maps (http://www.missingmaps.org/events/) but did not see any events
>listed in the Sydney region (did I miss something perhaps?)
>
>I'm wondering if there are any other Sydneysiders who are keen on a
>mapathon, and if there are any experienced Sydney mappers who can help
>lead such a mapathon and guide newcomers (I find that I am quite
>uncertain when mapping things on HOTOSM Tasks, due to the non-city like
>nature of the satellite images). I think there will be some the
>architecture company I work at who would be interested in
>participating, and although I can't speak for WSP, they have a Sydney
>branch who I assume might be interested in joining. I can help organise
>things like venue and catering.
>
>Thoughts? Volunteers?
>
>Sent from ProtonMail mobile
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Re: [talk-au] NSW LPI address import

[David Wales]

I've fixed all the bugs I know about in the script now.
I have included an updated README in the same branch as the bug fixes
for the script, so they will all arrive together when it is merged.

On 18/2/19 10:47 am, Dion Moult wrote:
> G'day Joel!
> 
> Yes, suburbs sit in that folder for a minimum of 2 weeks to allow peer
> comments, and then we upload if there are no issues.
> 
> You can read more here:
> 
> https://gitlab.com/dionmoult/osm-nsw-address-import
> 
> daviewales is working on some great scripts to improve the import
> process, so we might need to update the README :)
> 
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
> 
> 
> 
>  Original Message 
> On 17 Feb. 2019, 11:55 pm, Joel H. < jo...@disroot.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> If all is well with the data, Do we upload?
> 
> P.S. I'm still in the middle of Brisbane City's import, so I can't
> help right now, But I'll jump in later in the month.
> 
> 
> On 11/2/19 7:28 am, Dion Moult wrote:
>> Hey talk-au,
>>
>> This is just a reminder that the NSW LPI address import project is
>> still going on, and that you can review any datasets in the
>>     following repo. Some of the manual steps have been automated a
>> little bit more thanks to great work by David Wales, but it is
>> still a human review process at the end of the day so we are doing
>> a bit here a bit there.
>>
>> https://gitlab.com/dionmoult/osm-nsw-address-import/tree/master/review
>>
>> Gitlab has a subscribe feature somewhere I think.
>>
>> A list of suburbs that are currently in the review directory are
>> as follows:
>>
>> Camellia, Concord West, Denistone East, Denistone West, Denistone,
>> East Ryde, Galston, Harris Park, Liberty Grove, Meadowbank,
>> Melrose Park, Newington, North Ryde, Tahmoor.
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> On 18 Dec. 2018, 11:07 pm, David Wales < daviewa...@disroot.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks Dion,
>>
>> I'll get back to the repo in the next day or so. I had a quick
>> look, and it seemed pretty comprehensive, but I haven't had a
>> chance to try it out yet.
>>
>> Andrew, I could make a custom OsmAnd map with address data,
>> but it would spoil the point of using OsmAnd for me! I use it
>> because it motivates me to improve Open Street Map!
>>
>> On 18 December 2018 12:05:28 am AEDT, Andrew Harvey
>>  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 at 23:38, Dion Moult  
>> wrote:
>>
>> I also use OsmAnd a lot and lack of addresses is a big
>> bugbear! Admittedly sometimes I cheat and search for
>> the address on an app called "Transportr" on the
>> F-Droid store before I do my routing in OsmAnd, but I
>> digress. 
>>
>>
>> You could process the GNAF address points data into OsmAnd using 
>> [1]
>> and [2], so you get full address support without needing to 
>> actually
>> import anything into OSM. I did this and it works okay.
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OsmAndMapCreator
>> [2] https://github.com/openaddresses/oa2osm
>> 
>> 
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>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Turn lanes review

[David Wales]

Thanks Joel,

I was using 'Lane and road attributes', but I see that 'Enhanced lane
and road attributes' is different. I'll try it out.

Regards,
David Wales

On 18/2/19 12:06 am, Joel H. wrote:
> Are you using Map Paint styles in JOSM? These help you visually see what
> your road tags are doing.
> 
> "Enhanced Lane and road attributes" is the one you want, It's under View
>> Map Paint Style > Preferences
> 
> I don't know if it would be helpful in this situation, or if you already
> use it. But it has helped me a great deal :)
> 
> On 7/2/19 3:18 pm, David Wales wrote:
>> Dear Australian Mappers,
>>
>> I have completed my first attempt at adding lane and turn:lane tagging
>> to a freeway intersection. However, I'm not entirely confident that I'm
>> doing it right!
>>
>> Please help me to fix any issues before I upload it!
>> Here is a link to the changeset:
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zvq48ml34bcc6y6/Picton%20Road%20Freeway%20Turnlanes.osm.zip?dl=0
>>
>> Regards,
>> David Wales
>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] NSW LPI address import

[David Wales]

Hi Joel,

If the data has been available for review for at least two weeks, feel free to 
upload it after reviewing it.

Then, move the file to the 'uploaded' directory, and submit a merge request so 
we can keep track of everything.

If you need to make small changes, please include those in the merge request, 
so the 'uploaded' directory matches what was actually uploaded.

Regards,
David Wales

On 17 February 2019 11:55:37 pm AEDT, "Joel H."  wrote:
>If all is well with the data, Do we upload?
>
>P.S. I'm still in the middle of Brisbane City's import, so I can't help
>right now, But I'll jump in later in the month.
>
>
>On 11/2/19 7:28 am, Dion Moult wrote:
>> Hey talk-au,
>>
>> This is just a reminder that the NSW LPI address import project is
>> still going on, and that you can review any datasets in the following
>> repo. Some of the manual steps have been automated a little bit more
>> thanks to great work by David Wales, but it is still a human review
>> process at the end of the day so we are doing a bit here a bit there.
>>
>>
>https://gitlab.com/dionmoult/osm-nsw-address-import/tree/master/review
>>
>> Gitlab has a subscribe feature somewhere I think.
>>
>> A list of suburbs that are currently in the review directory are as
>> follows:
>>
>> Camellia, Concord West, Denistone East, Denistone West, Denistone,
>> East Ryde, Galston, Harris Park, Liberty Grove, Meadowbank, Melrose
>> Park, Newington, North Ryde, Tahmoor.
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> On 18 Dec. 2018, 11:07 pm, David Wales < daviewa...@disroot.org>
>wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks Dion,
>>
>> I'll get back to the repo in the next day or so. I had a quick
>> look, and it seemed pretty comprehensive, but I haven't had a
>> chance to try it out yet.
>>
>> Andrew, I could make a custom OsmAnd map with address data, but
>it
>> would spoil the point of using OsmAnd for me! I use it because it
>> motivates me to improve Open Street Map!
>>
>> On 18 December 2018 12:05:28 am AEDT, Andrew Harvey
>>  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 at 23:38, Dion Moult
> wrote:
>>
>> I also use OsmAnd a lot and lack of addresses is a big
>> bugbear! Admittedly sometimes I cheat and search for the
>> address on an app called "Transportr" on the F-Droid
>store
>> before I do my routing in OsmAnd, but I digress. 
>>
>>
>> You could process the GNAF address points data into OsmAnd
>using [1]
>> and [2], so you get full address support without needing to
>actually
>> import anything into OSM. I did this and it works okay.
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OsmAndMapCreator
>> [2] https://github.com/openaddresses/oa2osm
>>
>
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>>
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[talk-au] Splitting buildings with shared walls

[David Wales]

Hi all,

I recently uploaded this changeset:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/67214720#map=18/-34.22342/150.59303

However, I received some JOSM validation errors, and thought I should
double check to see if I've made a mistake.

JOSM warned of 'Crossing buildings', particularly in the region from 129
to 139 Remembrance Driveway. (The link above zooms to this point.)  

However, I'm not sure how to fix this error, or if it is perhaps a false
positive.

Prior to this changeset, all the buildings on this block were traced as
a single giant building. Using the LPI Base Map, and the LPI Imagery, I
split it into individual buildings with shared walls. I did this by
using the 'Draw Nodes' tool to draw the shared wall, and the 'Split
Object' tool to split the building into two.

Regards,
David Wales



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Re: [talk-au] Turn lanes review

[David Wales]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your feedback.
I've edited the changeset and uploaded it:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/67040007

Regards,
David Wales

On 9/2/19 5:02 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> I'm not sure I follow your example, but...
> 
> The rule of thumb is to only split the way when there is a physical
> barrier preventing moving from one lane to the other.
> 
> As for Key:lanes, according to
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lanes it's only for marked
> lanes, but Microsoft has been adding many Key:lanes even when
> unmarked, though there's a bit of discussion about this
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:lanes.
> 
> On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 at 08:41, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
>>
>> So what is considered "best practice" when it comes to lanes - physical or 
>> theoretical markings?
>>
>> Situation: you have a two-lane, one-way, primary road with an exit coming up.
>>
>> Your road is marked as highway=primary, one_way=yes, lanes=2
>>
>> Should you map in an actual, physical lane splitting off to the left along 
>> the curve of the exit ramp, marked as =primary_link, lanes=1; or change the 
>> =primary to lanes=3, turn:lanes=slight_left|none|none?
>>
>> I'll openly admit that I add extra physical lanes because I think it "looks" 
>> better that way & makes more sense to follow a "real" road on the map, 
>> rather than just be told "turn slightly left".
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme



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[talk-au] Turn lanes review

[David Wales]

Dear Australian Mappers,

I have completed my first attempt at adding lane and turn:lane tagging
to a freeway intersection. However, I'm not entirely confident that I'm
doing it right!

Please help me to fix any issues before I upload it!
Here is a link to the changeset:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zvq48ml34bcc6y6/Picton%20Road%20Freeway%20Turnlanes.osm.zip?dl=0

Regards,
David Wales



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[talk-au] Residential road tagging

[David Wales]

Hello!

I came across an interesting tagging situation while working on this
MapRoulette Challenge:
https://maproulette.org/mr3/browse/challenges/3257

At this location,
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id#map=19/-34.06296/150.76212
Linum road is tagged as both a residential road, and a service road.

From the LPI NSW Base Map, I'm pretty sure that both segments are meant
to be Linum Road. However, from the LPI NSW Imagery, I'm not sure if
both should be tagged as residential, or if the current tagging with
part residential and part service road is correct.

Thoughts?

Regards,
David Wales



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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[David Wales]

Why not:

name=Stand F, Strathfield Station
addr:street=Albert Road

On 22/1/19 11:26 am, Michael Collinson wrote:
> In Sweden, I have seen the "F" going into the ref tag. Just a thought, I
> don't recall how it affects rendering in common schemes. Con: Clash with
> a more rigorous ref num giving by the transport authority, "40459" or
> such. Another (complementary) practice is to put just "F" as the name -
> which has the secondary benefit of being more likely to render out in a
> crowded space. The other detail perhaps being better suited to the
> corresponding bus_station node/area/relation.
> 
> Else, +1 from me, the proposal seems useful to me as a smart refinement
> of local practice.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 2019-01-22 10:26, Warin wrote:
>> Are there any dissenters? 
>> I'll give it a week.
>> Any feed back from other places In Australia? 
>> On 21/01/19 20:00, cleary wrote:
>>> As a regular user of public transport, I agree.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, at 4:39 PM, Warin wrote:
 Hi,


 At present the names of bus stops goes something like

 name=Strathfield Station, Albert Rd (Stand F).


 The web transport trip planers direct you to Stand F, yet this is not 
 very visiblein OSM renderings as that information is last.


 Would it not be best to have the name put the more detailed information 
 first and the generalproximity information last, much like an address?

 Such as

 name=Stand F, Albert Rd, Strathfield Station


 Thoughts?


>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[David Wales]

I don't know what the OSM convention is for this, but I tend to agree with 
Nemanja. It makes more sense to split the two halves of the road, rather than 
have them as a single way. 

On 22 January 2019 8:23:35 am AEDT, "Nemanja Bračko"  wrote:
>@Warin,
>
>I personally do not see why is it wrong if you split? It is just two
>segments merged in one node. Geometry and data are exactly the same
>just it
>is represented as two, instead of one line.
>
>If we go deeper in this issue, it is actually wrong, because you have
>marked/mapped 2 physical segments with just one line. Angle is not
>natural
>for any road. However, it doesn't make any difference in routing so it
>is
>acceptable to be mapped as one line in cases like this.
>
>Thanks,
>Nemanja
>
>On Mon, 21 Jan 2019, 21:33 Ben Kelley,  wrote:
>
>> Personally I think that's a handy warning.
>>
>>- Ben
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue., 22 Jan. 2019, 07:25 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 22/01/19 02:45, Nemanja Bračko wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree on that, but that's the way how this tool works.
>>>
>>>
>>> So you will have to accept that the tool is wrong and ignore its
>output.
>>>
>>> Altering the map to comply with a tool that is wrong is wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [talk-au] Brisbane City Address Import

[David Wales]

Hi Joel,

I have had a quick look at the address data file in JOSM, and it looks
pretty good. When you split it by suburb / region, will you share the
smaller region files so other mappers can help with the review /
conflation / upload process?

Regards,
David Wales

On 13/1/19 11:13 pm, Joel H. wrote:
> Here is my processed OSM file
> 
> https://github.com/zayuim/osm-misc/blob/master/BrisbaneAddressesOfficialOnly.osm.xz
> 
> The BCC dataset has issues with overlapping nodes and dupe addresses, I
> ended up removing all other address types and only getting the official
> ones (as opposed to the alternates).
> 
> And now the data is a lot better.
> 
> 
> My plan is to split the data either by suburb or as squares.
> 
> 
> -Joel
> 
> On 13/1/19 6:24 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>> Another option is take the CSV export from OpenAddresses
>> http://results.openaddresses.io/sources/au/qld/brisbane_city_council
>> and use https://github.com/openaddresses/oa2osm to convert it to .osm.
>>
>> It has options for title case, remapping tags, it already combines the
>> road name and road type together, and converts to WGS84.
>>
>> But if you've already done it, best post the processed .osm file you
>> plan on importing and the procedure you're planning on using.
>>
>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 at 15:46, Joel H.  wrote:
>>> Hi no need. I figured out all I needed with a simple python script I found 
>>> online and LibreOffice Calc.
>>>
>>> On 13/1/19 12:59 pm, David Wales wrote:
>>>
>>> If you create a repository for your import scripts, and create some
>>> issues, I'm happy to help out.
>>>
>>> Have a look at Dion Moult's import repository for the NSW LPI Address
>>> data for some ideas. We are importing suburb by suburb, and putting
>>> changesets up for review on the repository before uploading them.
>>> https://gitlab.com/dionmoult/osm-nsw-address-import
>>>
>>> This Brisbane import should be *much* more straightforward than the NSW
>>> LPI import, because you have access to all the data upfront.
>>>
>>> On 13/1/19 1:52 pm, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:
>>>
>>> - What does the "ADDRESS USE TYPE" field mean? And should it be
>>> preserved?
>>>
>>> Hi, just guessing, when a property fronts onto two roads, 'Uprn
>>> (official location)' is where their mail is delivered and 'Alternate' is
>>> the other frontage.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [talk-au] Brisbane City Address Import

[David Wales]

If you create a repository for your import scripts, and create some
issues, I'm happy to help out.

Have a look at Dion Moult's import repository for the NSW LPI Address
data for some ideas. We are importing suburb by suburb, and putting
changesets up for review on the repository before uploading them.
https://gitlab.com/dionmoult/osm-nsw-address-import

This Brisbane import should be *much* more straightforward than the NSW
LPI import, because you have access to all the data upfront.

On 13/1/19 1:52 pm, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:
>> - What does the "ADDRESS USE TYPE" field mean? And should it be
>> preserved?
> 
> Hi, just guessing, when a property fronts onto two roads, 'Uprn
> (official location)' is where their mail is delivered and 'Alternate' is
> the other frontage.
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [talk-au] NSW LPI address import

[David Wales]

Thanks Dion,

I'll get back to the repo in the next day or so. I had a quick look, and it 
seemed pretty comprehensive, but I haven't had a chance to try it out yet.

Andrew, I could make a custom OsmAnd map with address data, but it would spoil 
the point of using OsmAnd for me! I use it because it motivates me to improve 
Open Street Map!

On 18 December 2018 12:05:28 am AEDT, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 at 23:38, Dion Moult  wrote:
>> I also use OsmAnd a lot and lack of addresses is a big bugbear!
>Admittedly
>> sometimes I cheat and search for the address on an app called
>"Transportr" on
>> the F-Droid store before I do my routing in OsmAnd, but I digress.
>
>You could process the GNAF address points data into OsmAnd using [1]
>and [2], so you get full address support without needing to actually
>import anything into OSM. I did this and it works okay.
>
>[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OsmAndMapCreator
>[2] https://github.com/openaddresses/oa2osm
>
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Re: [talk-au] NSW LPI address import

[David Wales]

Thanks Andrew,

I'll make sure to tag them as part of the NSW LPI address import.

I'll also make sure that no hand mapped addresses are lost or duplicated.

Do I need to create a new account for this import, or is it OK to upload under 
my own account, provided it is properly tagged?

On 17 December 2018 5:30:27 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>Hi David,
>
>The process Dion set up is a valid way to contribute (at the same time
>you're not restricted to only using that approach).
>
>From my point of view, so long as
>
>1. these changesets are somehow tagged or noted as being part of the
>NSW LPI Address import
>2. addresses which are already mapped in OSM are not lost in the
>process, since these are potentially more accurate, and potentially
>more ground truthed
>
>then it's fine to proceed as you see fit.
>
>On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 at 11:00, David Wales 
>wrote:
>>
>> Hello Talk-AU,
>>
>> I sent this message earlier with the subject ‘Hello!’, but somehow it
>got PGP encrypted on the way!
>> So, here it is again, hopefully not encrypted.
>>
>> I am an Australian mapper, interested in participating in the NSW LPI
>address import.
>> I have found the wiki page, along with the talk-au discussion and the
>imports list discussion.
>>
>> I have also found Dion Moult’s address import repository on Gitlab.
>> I have started reviewing the changesets listed in the review
>directory by opening new issues in the repository for any issues I
>find.
>> Once I have reviewed a changeset, and fixed any issues, should I
>upload it to OSM and submit a pull request to fix the changeset and
>move it to the ‘uploaded’ directory? Or does it need more review than
>that?
>>
>> Regards,
>> David Wales
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[talk-au] NSW LPI address import

[David Wales]

Hello Talk-AU,

I sent this message earlier with the subject ‘Hello!’, but somehow it got PGP 
encrypted on the way!
So, here it is again, hopefully not encrypted.

I am an Australian mapper, interested in participating in the NSW LPI address 
import 
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia_NSW_Property_and_Address_Import>.
I have found the wiki page 
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia_NSW_Property_and_Address_Import>,
 along with the talk-au 
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2018-June/011937.html> 
discussion and the imports 
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2018-June/005547.html> list 
discussion.

I have also found Dion Moult’s address import repository on Gitlab. 
<https://gitlab.com/dionmoult/osm-nsw-address-import>
I have started reviewing the changesets listed in the review directory 
<https://gitlab.com/dionmoult/osm-nsw-address-import/tree/master/review> by 
opening new issues in the repository 
<https://gitlab.com/dionmoult/osm-nsw-address-import/issues/2> for any issues I 
find.
Once I have reviewed a changeset, and fixed any issues, should I upload it to 
OSM and submit a pull request to fix the changeset and move it to the 
‘uploaded’ directory?   Or does it need more review than that?

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[talk-au] Hello!

[David Wales]

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[talk-au] Registration now open for FOSS4G SotM Oceania Community Day

[David Dean]

Hi everyone,

With less that a month to go until the exciting inaugural FOSS4G SotM
Oceania conference, we have now opened registration for our Community Day,
which will be on Friday 23rd November at the Old Arts Building at the
University of Melbourne.

Everyone in the open-source and open-data geospatial community is welcome,
attendance will be free, with catering provided, and you absolutely don't
need to be registered for the conference itself to attend.

Please feel free to turn up for the whole day (9am-5pm) or for any part of
the day that suits you. We will be hosting mapathons, geospatial software
codesprints, how-to workshops and many other exciting events run by you,
our great open-source and open-data community members.

I look forward to seeing you there, so please head to
https://foss4g-oceania.org/program/community-day to get more information,
or directly to http://communityday.foss4g-oceania.org/ to register to let
us know you are coming!

Please pass this email or send the above links to anyone you think might be
interested, and happy mapping!

David Dean,
Community Day Organiser,
FOSS4G SotM Oceania.

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[talk-au] Open geospatial projects wanted for FOSS4G SotM Oceania Community Day

[David Dean]

Hi everyone,

FOSS4G SotM Oceania is hosting a contribution-sprint Community Day on the
final day of the conference, Friday 23rd of November, in the Old Arts
Building at the University of Melbourne. Participation in the Community Day
will be free-of-charge and all participants will be welcome, regardless of
their involvement with the large conference or not.

Projects wanted!

With less than 3 months until Community Day, we are looking for people to
lead open-source and open-data geospatial events that could help open GIS
projects to benefit from concentrated contribution-sprints from members of
the geospatial community.

If you know of any projects that might be interested in receiving
contributions, please let us know by filling out the form at
https://foss4g-oceania.org/attend/community-day/community-day-proposal.

All projects will be publicised on our Community Day page within a few days
of submission, and participants will be able to register for your project
closer to the Community Day. We will keep in touch with you, as a project
organiser, right up until the Community Day itself to ensure a successful
outcome for your project.

Any questions?

We are looking forward to an exciting Community Day as part of FOSS4G SotM
Oceania, and please do not hesitate to reach out and ask if you have any
questions about how our Community Day can help an open-source or open-data
geospatial project important to you.

Thanks,

David Dean
dd...@ieee.org
Coordinator, FOSS4G SotM Oceania Community Day
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Re: [talk-au] bushtrax.com images

[David Findlay]

Does OSM have a way to show that photo is available at a particular node?
I'd rather contribute photos and photospheres to OSM than Google
Earth/Streetview, but if they're not easily found and viewed by users
there's not a lot of value. Thanks,

David

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:45 AM <fors...@ozonline.com.au> wrote:

> Hi Keith
>
> Thanks for your map contributions and for joining this discussion.
> This discussion was about establishing general principles for the use
> of the viewpoint and image tags rather than any criticism of your
> specific edits.
> No disrespect was intended to you or your website.
>
> You say "Regarding the accuracy of the photos trust me you will have
> to drive to that point and have a look yourself"
> There is no dispute about the accuracy or value of the photos, rather
> questions of whether to link to them in OSM and what object the link
> should be attached to.
>
> Take two examples:
> Node: River crossing (5536892190)
> The photo contains valuable information on track conditions but it is
> not taken from a viewpoint "A place where tourists, visitors, hikers
> might like to visit and take photographs. A place, often high, with a
> good view of surrounding countryside or notable buildings. Sometimes
> called a vista point or scenic area/point, lookout or overlook"
> The photo would have been better linked from the ford Node: 5536892207
> rather than creating a viewpoint.
>
> Node: SE (5536892237)
> Again this photo conveys valuable information about track conditions
> on the descent to the beach but is not taken from what can be
> described as a viewpoint. If anything, I think the photo should be
> linked to that section of track.
>
> Tony
>
> >  I am the author of bushtrax.com and added those links to OSM. I also
> have
> > added quite a few 4wd tracks from the gpx files on the same site. As I
> have
> > found out another person has added one of those files under their name. I
> > just filled in all the relevant info.
> >
> > 
> > Regarding the accuracy of the photos trust me you will have to drive to
> > that point and have a look yourself, I have been photographing the coast
> > using moving map software and a gps for nearly 17 years.
> >
> > The viewpoint aspect is just that, I am standing on the Barron Lookout
> and
> > this is the view. I don't see the point of putting the viewpoint icon on
> > the road out the front of the Bremer Bay Caravan Park.
> >
> > The tracks over time are realigned due to shifting dunes storms washing
> > them away or the managers of the land have deemed the track unsuitable
> and
> > altered the route. It also maps the rehabilitation that is carried out by
> > volunteers and the land managers staff. Some of the earliest efforts go
> > back as far as 1991, They are still there and in use today.
> > 
> >
> > I have found plenty of these photos on other forums etc over the years
> but
> > they just used to link to the photo and left the photo on the server. No
> > problems from me. As in the case of of a Fairfax journalist who pinched
> one
> > early this year, he made himself look like fool.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > Keith
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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[talk-au] Farewell to Brisbane from me, OSM Brisbane will continue

[David Dean]

For those who don't already know, I have left Brisbane for Armidale, and
won't be organising OSM events in Brisbane anymore.

I have asked Joel Hansen, a very eager Brisbane mapper to help to ensure
that Brisbane OSM events keep running. You should hear from him very soon
about the next event!

Please feel free to visit https://bit.ly/maptimeau to join the Maptime
Australia slack channel to stay in touch.

Happy Mapping!

- David
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[talk-au] Beaudesert Mapping Party Next Weekend (10th Feb)

[David Dean]

Hi fellow mappers!

Only one week to go to our Beaudesert Mapping Party! Don't forget that I
would be happy to give you a lift from basically anywhere in Brisbane if
you are a bit daunted by the distance [1].

I also have a few more free car phone mounts (with thanks to Mapillary!) to
help with Photo Mapping if you are into that sort of thing.

The mapping party will be starting at 9am on Saturday 10th Feb, and we will
be meeting in the morning for coffee, then surveying, and enjoying a free
lunch in the Scenic Rim Council building while we help each other with our
iDing and JOSMing, etc.

More details on the event are at
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/beaudesert-mapping-party-tickets-41303789747
and please use that link to RSVP so we can plan appropriate amounts of food.

If you can't make it to Beaudesert, please turn up for the monthly
Geospatial Network in Brisbane City on Wed 7 Feb (
https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/brisbane-geospatial-network-wed-7-feb-2018-tickets-42339610916)
and keep representing OSM to the local GIS community (I won't be able to be
there myself, unfortunately though).

- David

[1] About an hour:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=graphhopper_car=-27.4690%2C153.0235%3B-27.9876%2C152.9960
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Re: [talk-au] How do I map left only turning lanes on a motorway?

[David Dean]

Hi Joel,

I believe that that example is not mapped correctly, as the turning lane
should only become a separate way when it reaches an actually, physical
separation. While it is just a turning lane, it should just be indicated by
lane tagging on the main way.

I'd move the separation up to the physical separation, and map the turning
lane information on the main way.

We have a few of those in the Brisbane area where intersections are overly
complicated because an early (no longer active) mapper really liked mapping
turning lanes as separate ways, and not all have been fixed.

- David

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 at 16:59 Joel H. <95.5.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, I'm adding lane data to the Inner City Bypass in Brisbane.
>
> In this spot here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/23615424 there is 3
> lanes, however the left turn only lane is already mapped as a separate
> motorway link. My intention is to add turning lane data to this part of
> the ICB.
>
> Should I map this third left lane on the ICB and move the linking lane
> closer to the turn off. Or should these lanes be as separate roads, as
> it is now with the linking lane having 1 lane and the ICB having 2.
>
>
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[talk-au] Beaudesert Mapping Party Coming Soon (10th Feb!)

[David Dean]

Hi everyone, and welcome to (almost) February,

February's Mapping Party for Brisbane will be a little bit out of town this
time: Beaudesert, but I hope I can encourage a good turnout.

The mapping party will be on Saturday 10th Feb, and we will be meeting in
the morning for coffee, then surveying, and enjoying a free lunch in the
Scenic Rim Council building while we help each other with our iDing and
JOSMing, etc.

If anyone is a bit daunted by the trip from Brisbane to Beaudesert [1], I'd
be happy to give you a lift there and back, so let me know. I'm happy to
grab you from basically anywhere in Brisbane.

More details on the event are at
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/beaudesert-mapping-party-tickets-41303789747 and
please use that link to RSVP so we can plan appropriate amounts of food.

If you can't make it to Beaudesert, please turn up for the monthly
Geospatial Network in Brisbane City on Wed 7 Feb (
https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/brisbane-geospatial-network-wed-7-feb-2018-tickets-42339610916)
and keep representing OSM to the local GIS community (I won't be able to be
there myself, unfortunately though).

- David

[1] About an hour:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=graphhopper_car=-27.4690%2C153.0235%3B-27.9876%2C152.9960
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping Indigenous Place Names

[David Dean]

Oh,

And one more thing: At its best OpenStreetMap is about local mappers
mapping what is of interest to them, so we should be attempting to engage
with out local indigenous community and asking them what their local
language is and what features in OSM (or that we can add to OSM) are
important to them.

Some of this might stretch the 'verifiable on the ground' rule a little,
but I think if there is significant local knowledge, it is fair game for
the map.

- David

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 at 14:03 David Dean <dd...@ieee.org> wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> Thanks for the great responses. I'm glad I kicked off this thread.
>
> I don't think there is a problem with indicating a name:aus tag if the
> local aboriginal name for an area/feature is known, but you haven't done
> further research to find the actual language code applicable.
>
> However, it should be a goal to update all name:aus tags to move them to
> the appropriate real tags based on the iso639-3 tags. I'm not sure at that
> stage whether the name:aus tags would be useful to stay or not. Any ideas?
>
> I am pushing this myself, as I want to build a rendering of OSM that is
> focused on the local indigenous knowledge across the country, but I guess
> this means I'm going to need to do a bit more work to find out the iso639-3
> tags for all indigenous languages in Australia, and maybe even some idea of
> what tags are local to what areas.
>
> This is clearly not going to be trivial, but what that's worth doing is? :)
>
> - David
>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 at 08:45 Andrew Harvey <andrew.harv...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 26 January 2018 at 23:33, David Dean <dd...@ieee.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Absolutely. If the more specific language code is known, it should be
>>> used.
>>>
>>
>> Indeed Tasmania uses a lot of name:xtz eg.
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/123026960 and
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/vql, Uluru uses name:pjt, hopefully there
>> are a lot more. I think name:aus should only really be used if you don't
>> know which more specific ISO code to use.
>>
>> On 27 January 2018 at 07:53, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Should the English language ones be recorded as name:eng=Ayers Rock ?
>>>
>> I think they may be entered as alt_name, possibly they also should be
>>> recorded as name:eng too (a duplication).
>>>
>>
>> name:eng and name:en are the same thing according to
>> https://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/langcodes_name.php?code_ID=130
>>
>> The English name of Uluru is Uluru not Ayers Rock. I'd be in favour of
>> moving Ayers Rock to the old name. official_name could still be "Uluru /
>> Ayers Rock" as that's what's it's officially designated as.
>>
>> I'd prefer we didn't use name=Uluru (Ayers Rocks) and instead just used
>> name=Uluru as it should be left up to data consumers how they want to
>> display alternate names, with Ayers Rock either as old_name or alt_name.
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>>
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping Indigenous Place Names

[David Dean]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the great responses. I'm glad I kicked off this thread.

I don't think there is a problem with indicating a name:aus tag if the
local aboriginal name for an area/feature is known, but you haven't done
further research to find the actual language code applicable.

However, it should be a goal to update all name:aus tags to move them to
the appropriate real tags based on the iso639-3 tags. I'm not sure at that
stage whether the name:aus tags would be useful to stay or not. Any ideas?

I am pushing this myself, as I want to build a rendering of OSM that is
focused on the local indigenous knowledge across the country, but I guess
this means I'm going to need to do a bit more work to find out the iso639-3
tags for all indigenous languages in Australia, and maybe even some idea of
what tags are local to what areas.

This is clearly not going to be trivial, but what that's worth doing is? :)

- David

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 at 08:45 Andrew Harvey <andrew.harv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 26 January 2018 at 23:33, David Dean <dd...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> Absolutely. If the more specific language code is known, it should be
>> used.
>>
>
> Indeed Tasmania uses a lot of name:xtz eg.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/123026960 and
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/vql, Uluru uses name:pjt, hopefully there are
> a lot more. I think name:aus should only really be used if you don't know
> which more specific ISO code to use.
>
> On 27 January 2018 at 07:53, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Should the English language ones be recorded as name:eng=Ayers Rock ?
>>
> I think they may be entered as alt_name, possibly they also should be
>> recorded as name:eng too (a duplication).
>>
>
> name:eng and name:en are the same thing according to
> https://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/langcodes_name.php?code_ID=130
>
> The English name of Uluru is Uluru not Ayers Rock. I'd be in favour of
> moving Ayers Rock to the old name. official_name could still be "Uluru /
> Ayers Rock" as that's what's it's officially designated as.
>
> I'd prefer we didn't use name=Uluru (Ayers Rocks) and instead just used
> name=Uluru as it should be left up to data consumers how they want to
> display alternate names, with Ayers Rock either as old_name or alt_name.
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping Indigenous Place Names

[David Dean]

Andy,

Absolutely. If the more specific language code is known, it should be used.

Do you know where a list of these language codes for Australian Indigenous
languages might be found? It took me long enough to find the aus code on
https://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php, and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-2_codes. 'nys' isn't listed
on either of them.

I'm no expert (I'm trying to learn more), but
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aboriginal_languages seems to
suggest that most of Australia can be considered to belong to the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pama%E2%80%93Nyungan_languages, but I can't
seem to find any sort of language code for that group.

- David

On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 at 22:28 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

> On 26 January 2018 at 12:09, David Dean <dd...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
> > I've done a little research, and added the following
>
> > Please use the name:aus (aus is the general ISO639-2 code for Australian
> > Aboriginal Languages) to indicate the indigenous names of places.
>
> While I strongly support the recording of indigenous names, with a
> language code, surely more specific codes should be used where
> possible? For instance, 'nys' for Noongar (in WA)?
>
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[talk-au] Mapping Indigenous Place Names

[David Dean]

Hi everyone,

I've done a little research, and added the following section to the
Australian Tagging Guidelines at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Places,
and the Multilingual names page at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names:

Please use the name:aus (aus is the general ISO639-2 code for Australian
Aboriginal Languages) to indicate the indigenous names of places. It would
be useful to do this even when the generally used name is indigenous, to
allow for a potential indigenous rendering of our maps.

I hope we can all agree that this is an excellent idea, and starting adding
these everywhere we can. Here's my first go:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/55769062.

So far we currently have about 4 name:aus tags in the whole country (see
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/voW). We can do better that that!

- David

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[talk-au] Brisbane Photo Mapping Party January 13th - Free Swag!

[David Dean]

Hi everyone!

Two quick things:

1) While it's mostly me at this stage (See
https://mapillary.github.io/mapillary_greenhouse/ctm/brisbane/) , Brisbane
is doing great (
https://mapillary.github.io/mapillary_greenhouse/global-challenge/) at the
global Mapillary #CompleteTheMap PhotoMapping Challenge. I'd love your
help. Just download the Mapillary App on Android or IPhone, and join in the
fun.

2) If you want to know more about Photo Mapping, we are running a Photo
Mapping Party in two weeks time in the Brisbane City Botanic Gardens
(Saturday January 13th at 3pm). Details on EventBrite (
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/osm-completethemap-photo-mapping-party-tickets-41298321391)
- please RSVP!. I have a bunch of free swag from Mapillary (car and bike
phone mounts, t-shirts, stickers), so **everyone who turns up should be
able to get some free goodies!**

Oh, and in February, don't forget we will be having a Mapping Party in
Beaudesert (on Saturday Feb 10th). Details on EventBrite (
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/beaudesert-mapping-party-tickets-41303789747)
, but I'll send a reminder email closer to the event.

Thanks everyone, and happy mapping!

- David
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Re: [talk-au] MS open maps

[David Bannon]

Jubal, I think its great you should be putting in an effort like that. 
One little worry however, many roads in Australia travel across very 
lightly populated areas and are often quite unsuitable for certain 
vehicles and drivers who are inexperienced with the conditions. Such 
roads are often quite optimistically named, "Plenty Highway", "Gunbarrel 
Highway" and many, many more.


Please don't make any assumptions about such things, apart from putting 
misleading information in the map, lives could be put at risk.


Sticking to urban areas might be  good idea.

And I note you plan to work on waterways too. We have a lot of water 
ways in Australia, however, most of them don't have any water in them .


David


On 22/12/17 10:54, Jubal Harpster wrote:


Hi Everyone,

You may have noticed some Microsoft folks present on the mailings 
lists and Australian Slack channels in the past few months.  Microsoft 
have convened a small Open-Maps team that is starting to work on the 
OSM data in Australia. Our team is not importing data, using 
algorithms or robot edits to improve the map, we are using iD & JOSM 
to make improvements.


The OSM data in Australia is in phenomenal condition thanks to the 
existing contributors. The list of projects we’re working on is 
publicly visible on our github repo here: 
(https://github.com/Microsoft/Open-Maps).  We welcome feedback, please 
feel free to reach out to individual members of the team listed here 
(https://github.com/Microsoft/Open-Maps/wiki/Open-Maps-Team-at-Microsoft) 
to myself directly or to the whole team at openm...@microsoft.com 
<mailto:openm...@microsoft.com>


Thanks,

-Jubal Harpster

Microsoft



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[talk-au] #CompleteTheMap and Upcoming Brisbane OSM Events in January and February

[David Dean]

Hi everyone!

I've been a little quiet lately, but we have some announcements of new
OpenStreetMap events happening around Brisbane into January and February,
and I thought you might be interested.

1) Mapillary has started a #CompleteTheMap challenge
<https://openstreetmap.us16.list-manage.com/track/click?u=f9d4c3db0d039ad4bed7a1489=8b8a7661e0=9555fe5c8c>
 and Brisbane is competing
<https://openstreetmap.us16.list-manage.com/track/click?u=f9d4c3db0d039ad4bed7a1489=aaec5c4c34=9555fe5c8c>.
If you want to help get photos into Mapillary and available for use in
OpenStreetMap please join Mapillary now, and get started Photo Mapping! The
challenge has already started, and continues until January 31st.

2) If you want to know more about Photo Mapping, we are running a Photo
Mapping Party
<https://openstreetmap.us16.list-manage.com/track/click?u=f9d4c3db0d039ad4bed7a1489=9a469a362e=9555fe5c8c>
in
the Brisbane City Botanic Gardens on Saturday January 13th at 3pm. Details
on EventBrite
<https://openstreetmap.us16.list-manage.com/track/click?u=f9d4c3db0d039ad4bed7a1489=e2130f5746=9555fe5c8c>,
but I'll send a reminder email closer to the event.

3) If you want to travel a bit further for a Mapping Party in February,
then I have a deal for you! We will be conducting a Mapping Party in
Beaudesert
<https://openstreetmap.us16.list-manage.com/track/click?u=f9d4c3db0d039ad4bed7a1489=645d21d98f=9555fe5c8c>
(on
Saturday Feb 10th) to capture as much of the town and surrounding areas as
we can on the day. Details on EventBrite
<https://openstreetmap.us16.list-manage.com/track/click?u=f9d4c3db0d039ad4bed7a1489=732efcfed1=9555fe5c8c>,
but I'll send a reminder email closer to that event too!

Thanks everyone, and happy mapping!

- David
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