date:20060323




You understood what was written, Judy. People think 
you pretty much don't 'get' anything that's written on TT. I believe you do 
'get' the odd bit.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 15:43
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  Well what are you about Lance Muir
  Are you doing what God has called someone else to 
  do?
  Are you criticizing what you think someone else is 
  doing that God didn't tell them to do?
  Are you hearing God as to what he wants you to 
  do?
  How do you know you are hearing God since noone can 
  know truth according to you?
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:06:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Operative _expression_ 'what they believe God has 
called them to do'?

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Let me get this straight JD.
  By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who 
  believe Genesis as it is
  written - Right??
  
  PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and the 
  Pat Robertsons of this
  world? You may have to eat those words one day 
  because both are busy
  about what they believe God has called them to do 
  and who are you to
  denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 14 
  theological expert...
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I 
suppose, but I must say something here -- 
the conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and 
religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism 
(radical fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the 
first step will not be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal 
with the situation outside the school setting. The 
church has done an excellent job in this regard with the High School 
population -- but it has forsaken the University campus' 
without a fight. Truth will win out if compared to that 
which has no bearings. The failure, here, is with the 
church and its seeming inability to continue with the college age 
population. It -- religion - simply does not 
need to be in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and 
minds of the college age student. 

The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as 
it does with the unwanted-infant population. If the 
church could place 1.4 million newborns each year -- 
abortion would be EASILY defeated. But , as long as we 
think that after birth,it is all up to the infant, 
well, the battle will rage. 

In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do 
not want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue 
almost undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat 
Robertsons of this world running anything of an evangelistic 
nature.

jd








-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Lance wrote:   If 
  Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then   you are a 'sectarian 
  loonie' , David.   I'm sectarian only in the sense 
  that the holy and the profane ought to be  separate. I am not 
  sectarian within the group of those who have submitted  unto 
  Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.   Lance wrote: 
He is a brother in Christ who believes   
  differently than you on some matters.   Now, if that makes 
  him what you say   then, that makes you what I say. 
He is not a liberal loony for believing differently 
  from me. The moniker  was offered because of his statement 
  about how acknowledgement of our  Creator did not belong in 
  schools. He made an irrational statement,  assuming tha t CNN 
  reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ,  then I 
  expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other 
   believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then 
  he will  continue to support the working of iniquity that 
  seeks to remove the  acknowledgment of God our Creator from 
  the schools. What he said was very  damaging to our society, 
  to believers who want to acknowledge God the  Creator in their 
  study of origins. To think that science and the  
  acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists 
  but not  from theologians, and certainly not from the Right 
  Reverend Doctor Rowland  Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. 
David Miller   --

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad




Or, she swims in a shallow pond, Judy.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 15:45
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
  Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
  
  
  
  I think she adjusts and adapts to theperceived 
  depth of those she is addressing Lance
  
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: 
  "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Baloney.
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of Lance  Even at this late date such a response 
  is unworthy of you. Israel,  on some  occasions (see it's 
  Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- 
  Original Message -   From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
   Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A 
  Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin: Purim  2006-Not 
  All Authority is BadBut Israel 
  oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!)  iz 
-Original Message-  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of Kevin  Deegan  Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 
  2006 4:06 PM  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  
  Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is Bad 
Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often 
  by believers,  has  adopted the role of 
  oppressor.   ROTFL  That is 
  Ludicrous on the face of it.  Where did you pick this whopper 
  up?   Perhaps you need a Geography 
  lesson!  http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html 
   Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of  
  California,  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic 
  dictatorships with 640  TIMES her  size, 60 TIMES her 
  population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab  propagandists 
  call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone  believe 
   them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of 
   the  lands called Arab, be responsible for the 
  political  dissatisfaction of  22 Arab countries? How 
  can the 13 million Jews in the world  (almost 5  
  million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems  
  of  the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 
  1.4 billion  Muslims  worldwide? 
I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too 
   Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament 
   of  David before he meets Goliath!  
  LOL --- 
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:   Lance chimes in: Just like you 
  and I, Linda, John has gone on  the odd  'rant'. 
  but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC!  Sadly, 
   Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has 
   adopted the  role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE 
  WHEN IN POWER.  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 
   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi 
  Daniel  Lapin:  Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
  Bad
  There is little point in talking with someone who knows me  
  better  than I know me. Such arrogant 
  surmising is the product of the  kind  of 
  narrowness that I disregard.  
   jd  
   -- Original message 
  --   From: 
  "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Jd, I never said the 
  Jews will be restored Outside of the  church;  
  they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews  
  more  than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to 
  me that you do.  Your  stereotypes and slurs 
  are very revealing. Izzy  
 
  Romans 11  Israel Is Not Cast 
  Away  1I say then, God has 
  not (A)rejected His people, has He?  (B)May  it 
  never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of  
  Abraham,  of the tribe of Benjamin. 
2God (D)has 
  not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew  (F)Or do 
   you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about 
   Elijah, how  he pleads with God against 
  Israel?  
   3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR 
  PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN  DOWN  YOUR ALTARS, AND I 
  ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY  LIFE." 
4But what is 
  the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT  for  
  Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 
5In the same 
  way then, there has also come to be at the  present 
   time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 
6But (J)if it 
  is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of  works, 
  otherwise grace is no longer grace.  
   7What then? What (K)Israel is 
  seeking, it has not obtained,  but  those who were 
  chosen obtained it, and the rest were  (L)hardened; 
8just as it is 
  written, 
   
  "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, 
   
  EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, 
   
  DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."  
   9And David says, 
   
  "(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?




Somone would post a perceptive email then, Iz would 
say 'Bob's your uncle' while you would pull out your electronic concordance so 
as to cite every contra verse you could locate.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 17:35
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in 
  Genesis literal or figurative?
  
  There you go again - as is your custom. You make 
  these great outlandish accusations
  and then when asked for evidence you shrink back and 
  put it all off on someone else.
  There has got to be a psychological term for ppl like 
  you, I know what my husband
  would say - something about bull dog mouth and 
  humming bird tail 
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
I watched whilst the two of you shot down the 
best of the 'layer-outers'. 
Close mindedness is the operative _expression_. 
Sad, sad, sad!

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Your observations are delusions Lance; I have 
  learned much during my time on TT
  Just because you have no insight does not negate 
  the reality. Nor does it let you off
  the hook. If you have all of this insight 
  that DavidM and myself lack then it is your
  responsibility to lay it out. 
  judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Judy:Short of intervention by the Spirit of 
God, I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown 
anything on TT by anyone. I've observed 
this over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with this. 


  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  If this were so Lance it would behoove you 
  who are in the "know" to lay it
  out clearly and succinctly so that we might 
  be corrected. So far I have not
  seen anything but tongue in cheek comments 
  that are often snide along with
  Personal shots and 
  put downs. So what is your problem??
  
  
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
  Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the 
  day in Genesis literal or figurative?
  
  
  David:My interpretation of what you just said:
  
  'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've 
  tried so hardto get you to come around to see things our (God's) 
  way. You do not see themour (God's) way so, you do not see at 
  all!
  
  Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm 
  'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two 
  of you apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only 
  SOMETIMES that which is spokenof as being 'orthodox' and the 
  teaching of Scripture overlap.
  
  The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of 
  Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a 
  vis both Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on 
  some occasions, are presumptuousto the nth degree!!
  
  
  - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
  March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis 
  literal or figurative?
  
  
   Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between 
  Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been 
  trying so hard to get you to see it. Martin Luther, if he was 
  here, would be trying so hard to get you to see it. 
  You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture 
  is not the same thing. We repent if we walk contrary to 
  Scripture. We do not necessarily repent if we depart 
  from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others to repent if they 
  depart from Orthodoxy. The standard of Orthodoxy and 
  the standard of the Bible are two different things. Why 
  can't you see that? David 
  Miller - Original Message -  
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: Re: 
  [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or 
  figurative? David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the 
  light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the Triune nature of 
  God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy that 
  is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD 
  but, that does not change what it is in this 
  context. - Original Message

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




Or, as on TT, theologically unknowing while 
spiritually alive. This is much more the case.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 18:52
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  So true, so true KD
  
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:54:02 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
A man may be Theologically knowing while spiritually 
DEAD.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: 

  
  Let me get this straight JD.
  By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who 
  believe Genesis as it is
  written - Right??
  
  PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and the 
  Pat Robertsons of this
  world? You may have to eat those words one day 
  because both are busy
  about what they believe God has called them to do 
  and who are you to
  denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 14 
  theological expert...
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I 
suppose, but I must say something here -- 
the conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and 
religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism 
(radical fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the 
first step will not be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal 
with the situation outside the school setting. The 
church has done an excellent job in this regard with the High School 
population -- but it has forsaken the University campus' 
without a fight. Truth will win out if compared to that 
which has no bearings. The failure, here, is with the 
church and its seeming inability to continue with the college age 
population. It -- religion - simply does not 
need to be in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and 
minds of the college age student. 

The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as 
it does with the unwanted-infant population. If the 
church could place 1.4 million newborns each year -- 
abortion would be EASILY defeated. But , as long as we 
think that after birth,it is all up to the infant, 
well, the battle will rage. 

In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do 
not want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue 
almost undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat 
Robertsons of this world running anything of an evangelistic 
nature.

jd








-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Lance wrote:   If 
  Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then   you are a 'sectarian 
  loonie' , David.   I'm sectarian only in the sense 
  that the holy and the profane ought to be  separate. I am not 
  sectarian within the group of those who have submitted  unto 
  Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.   Lance wrote: 
He is a brother in Christ who believes   
  differently than you on some matters.   Now, if that makes 
  him what you say   then, that makes you what I say. 
He is not a liberal loony for believing differently 
  from me. The moniker  was offered because of his statement 
  about how acknowledgement of our  Creator did not belong in 
  schools. He made an irrational statement,  assuming tha t CNN 
  reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ,  then I 
  expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other 
   believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then 
  he will  continue to support the working of iniquity that 
  seeks to remove the  acknowledgment of God our Creator from 
  the schools. What he said was very  damaging to our society, 
  to believers who want to acknowledge God the  Creator in their 
  study of origins. To think that science and the  
  acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists 
  but not  from theologians, and certainly not from the Right 
  Reverend Doctor Rowland  Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. 
David Miller   --  
  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you 
  may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) 
  http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to 
  receive posts from this lis t, send an email to  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have

Re: [TruthTalk] Henry Morris




Citing someone's CV makes them unembarrassing? 


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 16:13
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Henry 
  Morris
  
  I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR group over 
  there. 
  
  What exactly are you embarrassed about?
  
  Henry Morris
  B.S., with honors in civil engineering, Rice University, Houston, TX, 
  1939 
  Hydraulic Engineering
  M.S., University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, 1948 
  Ph.D., University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, 1950 
  LL.D
  Litt.D
  Faculty member at Rice University (1942-46), University of Minnesota 
  (1946-51), University of Southwestern Louisiana (1951-56) and Southern 
  Illinois University (1956-57)
  Former head of the Department of Civil Engineering at the Virginia 
  Polytechnic Institute and State University (1957-1970)
  Author of over 45 books regarding Creation-Evolution
  David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  David 
Miller wrote: I hate it when theologians are 
embarrassed of giving glory to the Creator in 
school.Lance wrote: You do KNOW, do you not David, 
that that's NOT the source of his embarrassment? Rowan 
Williams is not embarrassed concerning our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not 
unlike many, are embarrassed over believers turning 
non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)There is more to this 
issue that this. Is he embarrassed of certain brands of creationism? Of 
course. I am too. I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR 
group over there. At the same time, they serve a purpose in what they 
do, and we should not revolt to them so much that we accept the 
atheistic and scientific agenda of removing all references to the 
Creator from our public schools.You say it is a NON-ISSUE? I 
consider such a statement ignorant in the extreme. Deceptive to the 
core. There is one thing that the ICR group has illustrated, and that is 
that this is an issue.I talked with a student a few months ago, John 
Boyles, just before he was elected to be President of Student Government 
at the University of Florida. I talked with him about the persecution my 
daughter is undergoing at UF just because she believes the Bible that 
homosexual behavior is sinful. He confided to me that he applied for a 
Rhodes scholarship to study theology at Oxford. He was turned down 
because he argued in his oral examination / interview that the idea of 
Intelligent Design should be considered in the classroom. If this was a 
non-issue, these professors of theology would have tolerated his 
creationist convictions. I wish I could convey to you the grief this man 
carried over his own religious persecution by those who would not have 
him study theology because he believed intelligent design theories 
should be considered in school.I truly believe that these modern 
theologians assume that scientists are well studied in origins and are 
deeply convicted about the truth of evolutionary processes and the 
absurdity of the teaching of Genesis. When the truth comes out, they 
will be the ones who will be greatly embarrassed in the day of our Lord. 
The philosopher Thomas Khun was right in how he depicted the way science 
really operates. These theologians who object to Creationist models of 
origins should pay attention to him just a little bit more.David 
Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned 
with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 
4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from 
this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be 
unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an 
e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
  subscribed.
  
  
  Yahoo! 
  Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low 
rates.

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?




What gender are you when offering up an 
opinion?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 16:15
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in 
  Genesis literal or figurative?
  The STANDARD of ORTHODOXY in RW's eyes as shown in his own 
  words is The opinions of Men in the consensus of his churchDavid 
  Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  Lance, 
you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the 
teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see 
it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to 
see it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture 
is not the same thing. We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do 
not necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon 
others to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy. The standard of 
Orthodoxy and the standard of the Bible are two different things. Why 
can't you see that?David Miller- Original Message 
- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 
AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or 
figurative?David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' 
thought concerning theTriune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd 
appear to be an heresythat is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE 
TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, thatdoes not change what it is in this 
context.- Original Message - From: "David Miller" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 
2006 13:14Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or 
figurative? Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that 
modalism is an error, so how can you use the word repent in 
regards to this? Do you really think it is a sin for someone 
to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead? 
David Miller - Original Message -  From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 
AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or 
figurative? In short, Modalism !! 
Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who 
manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy 
Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd 
-- Original message --  From: Judy Taylor 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE 
FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, one person in three 
manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 
"Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: ONE GOD IN 
THREE PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in 
Diversity. Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in 
Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in 
Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence. 
iz If your idea were so JD then Jesus would 
have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" just as we are 
... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said if someone had seen 
him they had seen the Father because he did only what he 
first saw the Father do and he said only what he first heard 
from the Father. This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD. 
Unifying around rebellion is what the end times 
"harlot church" is all about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 
+ [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We shall be one as He and 
the Father are one, someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of 
diversity is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same 
Christ does not mean that unity in diversity does not exist. 
jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Agreed! I to 
hate all the isms and all the ologies. In fact I don't see why we 
can not lay them aside so that we may recognize the faith 
once delivered to the saints and "walk in Truth" or reality. Jesus 
was not referring to any "Unity in diversity" in 
John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and the Father are 
One Is "Unity in diversity" how you see the Godhead or "Trinity?" 
JD On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Sectarianism! Amen! Have you 
(of course you have) taken note of those who so identify 
others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus reflective 
of a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the 
truth. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It has occurred to 
me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, is not my 
real complaint. Henceforth and forever more, I will be opposed to 
sectarianism. The legal content of the sectarian is often different 
-- but the sectarian is the same kind of cat, regardless of his/her 
stripes. They are the ones who oppose the unity concerns expressed 
by Christ in John 17. There can be unity in

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad




I don't believe so Lance. I do believe she has her own 
ideas - that she is faithful where
God has her and that she is weary of the constant 
carping and criticism that one must
endure on this list. When I came it wasn't like 
this but this is what it has become.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:00:50 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Or, she swims in a shallow pond, 
  Judy.
  
From: Judy Taylor 



I think she adjusts and adapts to 
theperceived depth of those she is addressing Lance


On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: 
"ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Baloney.
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Lance  Even at this late date such a response 
is unworthy of you. Israel,  on some  occasions (see 
it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!
- Original Message -   From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A 
Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin: Purim  
2006-Not All Authority is BadBut 
Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!)  
iz   -Original Message- 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Kevin  Deegan  Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 
2006 4:06 PM  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
 Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is Bad 
  Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often 
by believers,  has  adopted the role of 
oppressor.   ROTFL  That is 
Ludicrous on the face of it.  Where did you pick this 
whopper up?   Perhaps you need a Geography 
lesson!  http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html 
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of  
California,  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic 
dictatorships with 640  TIMES her  size, 60 TIMES 
her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab  
propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone  
believe  them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of 
one percent of  the  lands called Arab, be 
responsible for the political  dissatisfaction of  
22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world  
(almost 5  million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed 
for the problems  of  the 300 million Arabs, who 
have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion  Muslims  
worldwide?   I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH 
too  Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call 
for disarmament  of  David before he meets 
Goliath!  LOL   
  --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:   Lance chimes in: Just like you 
and I, Linda, John has gone on  the odd  'rant'. 
but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC!  Sadly, 
 Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has 
 adopted the  role of oppressor.This is WHO WE 
ARE WHEN IN POWER.  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from 
Rabbi Daniel  Lapin:  Purim 2006-Not All 
Authority is Bad   
 There is little point in talking with someone who 
knows me  better  than I know me. 
Such arrogant surmising is the product of the  kind 
 of narrowness that I disregard.  
 jd  
 -- Original message 
--   From: 
"ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Jd, I never said 
the Jews will be restored Outside of the  church; 
 they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike 
Jews  more  than any other unbelievers. It 
is obvious to me that you do.  Your  
stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy 
   
 Romans 11 
 Israel Is Not Cast Away 
 1I say then, God has not 
(A)rejected His people, has He?  (B)May  it 
never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of  
Abraham,  of the tribe of Benjamin. 
  2God (D)has 
not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew  (F)Or do 
 you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about 
 Elijah, how  he pleads with God against 
Israel?  
 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR 
PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN  DOWN  YOUR ALTARS, AND 
I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY  LIFE." 
  4But what is 
the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT  for 
 Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO 
BAAL."  
 5In the same way then, there has 
also come to be at the  present  time (I)a 
remnant according to God's gracious choice.  
 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is 
no longer on the basis of  works, otherwise grace is no 
longer grace.  
 7What then? What (K)Israel is 
seeking, it has not

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad




I offer up as evidence Kevin, Judy, David, Dean and 
Iz.Say n'more, say n'more, a nod's as good as a wink.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 16:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
  Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
  
  And we have been been here so long and you have 
  offered 
  WHAT EVIDENCE?
  
  O I forgot Lances BASELESS ASSERTIONS qualify as 
  Evidence.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  David:It's 
because this is that which passes for evidence with such as yourself. 
I've seen that for a long time.- Original Message - From: 
"David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
Sent: March 22, 2006 10:26Subject: Re: 
[TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not 
All Authority is Bad Sadly, Lance, you do not see that you 
are the one who offers only a "harumph." Kevin presented actual 
evidence for consideration. David Miller 
- Original Message -  From: "Lance Muir" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:  
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A 
Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All 
Authority is Bad David/Kevin: 'Good point'? As I 
said recently to David concerning theology/science/logic; should you 
respond only with 'harumph' in the face of mounting evidence then, 
you ought to be speaking only with those who  hold your 
views on things. This is a 'cultish' approach and, is inherently 
dangerous. - Original Message -  
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
 Sent: March 21, 2006 17:56 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad 
ROTFLOL. Good point, Kevin. David 
Miller - Original Message -  
From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:05 
PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad Lance says Israel, many times 
oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of 
oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on 
the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper 
up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! 
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a 
democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 
22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 
60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab 
propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone 
believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one 
percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the 
political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 
million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were 
in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, 
who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims 
worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH 
too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for 
disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! 
LOL --- Lance Muir 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: 
Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. 
but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, 
Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted 
the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN 
POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A 
Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All 
Authority is Bad There is 
little point in talking with someone who knows me better 
than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the 
kind of narrowness that I 
disregard. 
jd -- Original message 
--  From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said 
the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will 
be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more 
than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. 
Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. 
Izzy Romans 
11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God 
has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! 
For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of 
the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not 
rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not 
know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, 
how he pleads with God against 
Israel? 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR 
PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!




Are you now or, have you ever been a member 
of.?Senator McCarthy lives! See 'Good Night and Good Luck'.. 


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 16:39
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
  sheppard opresses Giant!
  
  STILL WAITING
  Do you support books in Canadian Libraries that encourage Suicide 
  Bombing?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in spite 
of all the evidence.

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
  sheppard opresses Giant!
  
  After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little 
  aggitated.
  
  Please provide one quote:
  Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin
  Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete 
  annihilation of an Arab state
  Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead 
  arabs
  Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory 
  above their heads
  Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah 
  thinks of them
  where Jews torture muslims
  Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!
  Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing 
  bombing muslims
  Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslims
  
  The Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on 
  it's face!
  Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little 
  intimidating! LOL
  
  http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php
  Suicide bombing endorsed in kids 
  book recommended by Canadian libraries
  
  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts
  The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic 
  terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, 
  mutilated and burnt yesterday.
  In addition to supporting WMD 
  thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN 
  Libraries???
  
  Are these Jewish BOYS
  
  
  Then again Who is oppressing who?
  They oppress their own people!
  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/
  Turning a blind eye to child suicide 
  bombers - Where's the outrage over the 
  Palestinians' mistreatment of children?
  ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?
  
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  Even 
at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some 
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- 
Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: 
March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from 
Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! 
(Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin 
Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often 
by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. 
ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you 
pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography 
lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel 
in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, 
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES 
her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare 
Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare 
anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of 
one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the 
political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 
million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were 
in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, 
who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims 
worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH 
too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for 
disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! 
LOL --- Lance Muir 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just 
like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, 
my goodness, JOHN IS IN

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?




I don't use "electronic concordances" Lance, sorry to 
disappoint you. Would it be a
big surprised to you to know that some have God's Word 
deep within - I mean in the heart?
You know His Words are life to those who find them and 
health to all their flesh. IMO it is
folly to waste much time on the various winds and fads 
that pass through along with your
"best layer-outers"

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:03:19 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Somone would post a perceptive email then, Iz 
  would say 'Bob's your uncle' while you would pull out your electronic 
  concordance so as to cite every contra verse you could locate.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

There you go again - as is your custom. You make 
these great outlandish accusations
and then when asked for evidence you shrink back 
and put it all off on someone else.
There has got to be a psychological term for ppl 
like you, I know what my husband
would say - something about bull dog mouth and 
humming bird tail 

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  I watched whilst the two of you shot down the 
  best of the 'layer-outers'. 
  Close mindedness is the operative _expression_. 
  Sad, sad, sad!
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Your observations are delusions Lance; I have 
learned much during my time on TT
Just because you have no insight does not 
negate the reality. Nor does it let you off
the hook. If you have all of this insight 
that DavidM and myself lack then it is your
responsibility to lay it out. 
judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Judy:Short of intervention by the Spirit 
  of God, I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown 
  anything on TT by anyone. I've observed 
  this over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with this. 
  
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

If this were so Lance it would behoove you 
who are in the "know" to lay it
out clearly and succinctly so that we might 
be corrected. So far I have not
seen anything but tongue in cheek comments 
that are often snide along with
Personal shots 
and put downs. So what is your problem??


From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the 
day in Genesis literal or figurative?


David:My interpretation of what you just said:

'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've 
tried so hardto get you to come around to see things our (God's) 
way. You do not see themour (God's) way so, you do not see at 
all!

Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! 
I'm 'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES 
the two of you apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and 
only SOMETIMES that which is spokenof as being 'orthodox' and 
the teaching of Scripture overlap.

The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching 
of Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis 
a vis both Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on 
some occasions, are presumptuousto the nth degree!!


- Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in 
Genesis literal or figurative?


 Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between 
Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been 
trying so hard to get you to see it. Martin Luther, if he 
was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see 
it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the teaching 
of Scripture is not the same thing. We repent if we 
walk contrary to Scripture. We do not necessarily 
repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon 
others to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy. The 
standard of Orthodoxy and the standard of the Bible 
are two different things. Why can't you see 
that? David Miller - 
Original Message -  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22,

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!




Only because you have a short memory.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 16:49
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
  sheppard opresses Giant!
  HEY I will HIGH FIVE ya on that! ; )David 
  Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  There 
were many years of TruthTalk without Lance and JD. No, it was not a lot 
of backslapping.David Miller- Original Message - 
From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 1:27 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
sheppard opresses Giant!Hmm curiouser  
curiouserBehind the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM  KD? 
As John, the good bishop said, without the you-know-who's on TT it'd be 
one grand backslapping 'hail fellow well met'- Original Message 
- From: David MillerTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
March 22, 2006 13:10Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard 
opresses Giant!Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the 
"harumph" in spite of all the evidence.David Miller- 
Original Message - From: Kevin DeeganTo: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 
PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses 
Giant!After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little 
aggitated.Please provide one quote:Where a Jew calls an arab a 
Rat Dog or verminWhere a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the 
complete annihilation of an Arab stateWhere the Jews through a party 
while dancing on the bodies of dead arabsWhere Jews carry the entrails 
of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above their headsWhere a jew 
drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah thinks of 
themwhere Jews torture muslimsShow me a picture of a Jew dressed up 
as a Human bomb!Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos 
) endorsing bombing muslimsShow me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing 
muslimsThe Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - 
Ludicrous on it's face!Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does 
look a little intimidating! 
LOLhttp://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.phpSuicide bombing 
endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian 
librarieshttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/postsThe 
body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists 
blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and 
burnt yesterday.In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do 
you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN 
Libraries???Are these Jewish BOYSThen again Who 
is oppressing who?They oppress their own 
people!http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/Turning a blind eye to 
child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the Palestinians' 
mistreatment of children?ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot 
MISHAP?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Even at this 
late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on someoccasions 
(see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message 
- From: "ShieldsFamily"To:Sent: March 21, 2006 
21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
Purim2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses 
its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original 
Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan 
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by 
believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. 
ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you 
pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography 
lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in 
RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, 
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES 
her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare 
Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone 
believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one 
percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political 
dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in 
the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed 
for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties 
to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID 
OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like 
the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets 
Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir 
wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John 
has gone on the odd 'rant'. but,

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!




Yes, yes, yes (breaks dow in tears - sissy that he 
is) put the cuffs on me as I now see that I support all of these with my tax 
dollars. But, but, but..I then scratch my chin while thinking of that which our 
neighbour to the south actually does with actual weapons of mass destruction, 
with the foreign policy, through it's intelligence agencies on it's own 
citizenry and on...Yikes! IT IS AN EVIL EMPIRE THAT WILL BE JUDGED! 


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 16:43
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
  sheppard opresses Giant!
  
  Lance says Hmm curiouser  
  curiouserBehind the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM  KD? As 
  John, the good bishop said, without the you-know-who's on TT it'd be one grand 
  backslapping 'hail fellow well met'
  
  Ba Da Boom
  Ba Da Bing
  Thats all folks still no evidence!
  
  Do you support "Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book 
  recommended by Canadian libraries" ?
  Personal funding of WMD Weapons of 
  Mass Destruction with your own Retirement funds?
  Turning a blind eye?
  H!
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



Hmm curiouser  curiouserBehind 
the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM  KD? As John, the good 
bishop said, without the you-know-who's on TT it'd be one grand backslapping 
'hail fellow well met'

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David 
  Miller 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 13:10
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
  sheppard opresses Giant!
  
  Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in 
  spite of all the evidence.
  
  David Miller
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 
12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy 
faced sheppard opresses Giant!

After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little 
aggitated.

Please provide one quote:
Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin
Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete 
annihilation of an Arab state
Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead 
arabs
Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory 
above their heads
Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what 
Jehovah thinks of them
where Jews torture muslims
Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!
Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing 
bombing muslims
Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslims

The Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on 
it's face!
Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little 
intimidating! LOL

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php
Suicide bombing endorsed in kids 
book recommended by Canadian libraries

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts
The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic 
terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, 
mutilated and burnt yesterday.
In addition to supporting 
WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in 
CANADIAN Libraries???

Are these Jewish 
BOYS


Then again Who is oppressing who?
They oppress their own people!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/
Turning a blind eye to child suicide 
bombers - Where's the outrage over the 
Palestinians' mistreatment of children?
ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot 
MISHAP?

Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
Even 
  at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some 
  occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), 
  OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: 
  "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  Sent: March 21, 2006 
  21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
  Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But 
  Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) 
  iz -Original Message- From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin 
  Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
  Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad




More time for BSF, Judy.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:10
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
  Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
  
  I don't believe so Lance. I do believe she has her 
  own ideas - that she is faithful where
  God has her and that she is weary of the constant 
  carping and criticism that one must
  endure on this list. When I came it wasn't like 
  this but this is what it has become.
  
  On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:00:50 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Or, she swims in a shallow pond, 
Judy.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  
  
  I think she adjusts and adapts to 
  theperceived depth of those she is addressing Lance
  
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: 
  "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Baloney.
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of Lance  Even at this late date such a 
  response is unworthy of you. Israel,  on some  
  occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!  
- Original Message -   From: 
  "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
   Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A 
  Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin: Purim  
  2006-Not All Authority is Bad
  But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!)  
  iz   -Original Message- 
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of Kevin  Deegan  Sent: Tuesday, March 
  21, 2006 4:06 PM  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
   Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is 
  Bad   Lance says Israel, many times 
  oppressed and, often by believers,  has  adopted 
  the role of oppressor.   ROTFL 
   That is Ludicrous on the face of it.  Where did 
  you pick this whopper up?   Perhaps you 
  need a Geography lesson!  http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html 
   Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of 
   California,  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile 
  Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640  TIMES her  
  size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab 
   propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone 
   believe  them! How can Israel, which occupies 
  one-sixth of one percent of  the  lands called 
  Arab, be responsible for the political  dissatisfaction of 
   22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world 
   (almost 5  million fewer than they were in 1939!) 
  be blamed for the problems  of  the 300 million 
  Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion  
  Muslims  worldwide?   I 
  guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too  Israel 
  Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament  
  of  David before he meets Goliath!  
  LOL 
  --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:   Lance chimes in: Just like 
  you and I, Linda, John has gone on  the odd  
  'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC!  
  Sadly,  Israel, many times oppressed and, often by 
  believers, has  adopted the  role of 
  oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. 
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 
   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from 
  Rabbi Daniel  Lapin:  Purim 2006-Not All 
  Authority is Bad   
   There is little point in talking with someone who 
  knows me  better  than I know me. 
  Such arrogant surmising is the product of the  kind 
   of narrowness that I disregard.  
   jd  
   -- Original message 
  --   From: 
  "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Jd, I never said 
  the Jews will be restored Outside of the  church; 
   they will be become believers. You say you don't 
  dislike Jews  more  than any other 
  unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do.  
  Your  stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. 
  Izzy   
Romans 
  11  Israel Is Not Cast 
  Away  1I say then, God 
  has not (A)rejected His people, has He?  (B)May 
   it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of 
   Abraham,  of the tribe of Benjamin. 
2God 
  (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew  (F)Or 
  do  you not know what the Scripture says in the 
  passage about  Elijah, how  he pleads with God 
  against Israel?  
   3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED 
  YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN  DOWN  YOUR

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Your Mutha has been wearing combat boots too!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Or, she swims in a shallow pond, Judy.- Original Message -   From: Judy Taylor   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Sent: March 22, 2006 15:45  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is BadI think she adjusts and adapts to theperceived depth of those she is addressing Lance  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Baloney.[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance 
 Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel,  on some  occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message -   From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is BadBut Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!)  iz   -Original Message-  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kevin  Deegan  Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is Bad   Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers,  has  adopted the role of oppressor.   ROTFL  That is Ludicrous on the face of it.  Where did you pick this whopper up?   Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!  http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html  Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of
  California,  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640  TIMES her  size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab  propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone  believe  them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of  the  lands called Arab, be responsible for the political  dissatisfaction of  22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world  (almost 5  million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems  of  the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion  Muslims  worldwide?   I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too  Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament  of
  David before he meets Goliath!  LOL --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on  the odd  'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC!  Sadly,  Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has  adopted the  role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin:  Purim 2006-Not All Authority is BadThere is little point in talking with someone who knows me  better  than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the  kind  of narrowness that I disregard.   jd   -- Original message --   From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the  church;  they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews 
 more  than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do.  Your  stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11  Israel Is Not Cast Away  1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He?  (B)May  it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of  Abraham,  of the tribe of Benjamin.   2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew  (F)Or do  you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about  Elijah, how  he pleads with God against Israel? 
  3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN  DOWN  YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY  LIFE."   4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT  for  Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."   5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the  present  time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.   6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of  works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.   7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, 
 but  those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were  (L)hardened;   8just as it is written,  "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,  EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,  DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."   9And David says,  "(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,  AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
  10"(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,  AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER."   11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did  they?  (Q)May it never be! But by their transgression

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

David Oppresses Goliath! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somone would post a perceptive email then, Iz would say 'Bob's your uncle' while you would pull out your electronic concordance so as to cite every contra verse you could locate.- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 17:35 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?There you go again - as is your custom. You make these great outlandish accusations and then when asked for evidence you shrink back and put it all off on someone else. There has got to be a psychological term for ppl like you, I know what my husband would say - something about bull dog mouth and humming bird tail On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:31 -0500 "Lance Muir"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I watched whilst the two of you shot down the best of the 'layer-outers'. Close mindedness is the operative _expression_. Sad, sad, sad!From: Judy Taylor Your observations are delusions Lance; I have learned much during my time on TT Just because you have no insight does not negate the reality. Nor does it let you off the hook. If you have all of this insight that DavidM and myself lack then it is your responsibility to lay it out. judytOn Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Judy:Short of intervention by the Spirit of God, I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown anything on TT by anyone. I've observed this over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with this. From: Judy Taylor If this were so Lance it would behoove you who are in the "know" to lay it out clearly and succinctly so that we might be corrected. So far I have not seen anything but tongue in cheek comments that are often snide along with Personal shots and put downs. So what is your problem?? From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? David:My
interpretation of what you just said:'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried so hardto get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do not see themour (God's) way so, you do not see at all!Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm 'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of you apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that which is spokenof as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture overlap.The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a vis both Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on some occasions, are presumptuousto the nth degree!! - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do not necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy. The standard of Orthodoxy and the standard of the Bible are two different things. Why can't you see
that? David Miller - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, that does not change what it is in this context. - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March
21, 2006 13:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how can you use the word repent in regards to this? Do you really think it is a sin for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead? David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? In short, Modalism !! Modalism
The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

HIGH Five[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:"Believe in God's word" is fundy code for "believe as I do." When we have been dispersed, take with you the knowledge that not one single Rad Fundy has given any of us a clue as to what "doctrine" they are talking about. You must obey the commandments !!! they yell to the others. What commandments --- love one another, treat others as you would be treated, do not judge with finality, strive to be as mature as God is? Do not lust. Be angry and sin not? Is that it? They make it sound as if they have commandments no else has -- and it turns out , they do
 not. Just a big deal over the very same things all of uspractice. Sigh  jd-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] myth (this writersubjugates us to her narrow notions, permits usnofaith in God per se)On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:08:08 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:..jt:  ppl of faith believe God's Word 
		New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




What is the point in pursuing dead letters when one 
can
feast on a "living Word"

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:04:45 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Or, as on TT, theologically unknowing while 
  spiritually alive. This is much more the case.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

So true, so true KD


On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:54:02 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  A man may be Theologically knowing while spiritually 
  DEAD.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  

Let me get this straight JD.
By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who 
believe Genesis as it is
written - Right??

PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and 
the Pat Robertsons of this
world? You may have to eat those words one day 
because both are busy
about what they believe God has called them to 
do and who are you to
denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 
14 theological expert...

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I 
  suppose, but I must say something here 
  -- the conflict (speaking for myself) is not between 
  science and religion. It is between religion and 
  fundamentalism (radical fundamentalism, if you 
  will.) Knowing that the first step will not be last step 
  for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal with the situation outside the 
  school setting. The church has done an excellent job 
  in this regard with the High School population -- but it 
  has forsaken the University campus' without a fight. Truth 
  will win out if compared to that which has no 
  bearings. The failure, here, is with the church and 
  its seeming inability to continue with the college age 
  population. It -- religion - simply does not 
  need to be in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts 
  and minds of the college age student. 
  
  The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just 
  as it does with the unwanted-infant population. If 
  the church could place 1.4 million newborns each year 
  -- abortion would be EASILY defeated. But , as 
  long as we think that after birth,it is all up to the 
  infant, well, the battle will rage. 
  
  In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do 
  not want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either 
  venue almost undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and 
  Pat Robertsons of this world running anything of an evangelistic 
  nature.
  
  jd
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Lance wrote:   
If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then   you are a 
'sectarian loonie' , David.   I'm sectarian only in 
the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be  
separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have 
submitted  unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. 
  Lance wrote:   He is a brother in 
Christ who believes   differently than you on some 
matters.   Now, if that makes him what you say  
 then, that makes you what I say.   He is not a 
liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker 
 was offered because of his statement about how 
acknowledgement of our  Creator did not belong in schools. 
He made an irrational statement,  assuming tha t CNN 
reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ,  then 
I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other 
 believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, 
then he will  continue to support the working of iniquity 
that seeks to remove the  acknowledgment of God our Creator 
from the schools. What he said was very  damaging to our 
society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the  
Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the 
 acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from 
scientists but not  from theologians, and certainly not from 
the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland  Williams, Archbishop of 
Canterbury.   David Miller   
--  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned 
with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer every 
man." (Colossians 4:6)

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad




Exactly, you have set yourself up as a judge of ppl who 
knows nothing about what is
important and exhibitsinordinate affection for 
worldly foolishness and the wisdom
of Hollywood.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:12:02 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I offer up as evidence Kevin, Judy, David, Dean 
  and Iz.Say n'more, say n'more, a nod's as good as a 
  wink.
  
From: Kevin Deegan 

And we have been been here so long and you 
have offered 
WHAT EVIDENCE?

O I forgot Lances BASELESS ASSERTIONS qualify as 
Evidence.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
David:It's 
  because this is that which passes for evidence with such as yourself. 
  I've seen that for a long time.- Original Message - From: 
  "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  Sent: March 22, 2006 10:26Subject: 
  Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
  2006-Not All Authority is Bad Sadly, Lance, you do not 
  see that you are the one who offers only a "harumph." Kevin 
  presented actual evidence for consideration. David 
  Miller - Original Message -  From: "Lance 
  Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
   Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:42 
  AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
  Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad 
  David/Kevin: 'Good point'? As I said recently to David concerning 
  theology/science/logic; should you respond only with 'harumph' in the 
  face of mounting evidence then, you ought to be speaking only with 
  those who  hold your views on things. This is a 'cultish' 
  approach and, is inherently dangerous. 
  - Original Message -  From: "David Miller" 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:  
  Sent: March 21, 2006 17:56 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
  Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
  Bad ROTFLOL. Good point, 
  Kevin. David Miller - 
  Original Message -  From: "Kevin Deegan" 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
   Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 
  5:05 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi 
  Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
  Bad Lance says Israel, many times 
  oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of 
  oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on 
  the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper 
  up? Perhaps you need a Geography 
  lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html 
  Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of 
  California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic 
  dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population 
  and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel 
  "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can 
  Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands 
  called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction 
  of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world 
  (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for 
  the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties 
  to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I 
  guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing 
  the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before 
  he meets Goliath! 
  LOL --- Lance Muir 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: 
  Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 
  'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! 
  Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by 
  believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO 
  WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 
  12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from 
  Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
  Bad There is little point 
  in talking with someone who knows me better than I know 
  me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of 
  narrowness that I disregard. 
  jd -- Original message 
  --  From: "ShieldsFamily" 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said 
  the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will 
  be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more 
  than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. 
  Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. 
  Izzy 
  Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say 
  then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May 
  it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of 
  Abraham, of the tribe of 
  Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His

Re: [TruthTalk] Henry Morris

So then you answer the questionWhat is so embarrasing about him? Just more PsychoAssertionISM? And Back slappingShould we put it on the list with Data showing David oppresses Goliath CPP funding of WMD Canadian library support of Suicide BombingLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Citing someone's CV makes them unembarrassing? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 16:13 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Henry MorrisI'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR group over there. What exactly are you embarrassed about?Henry Morris B.S., with honors in civil engineering, Rice University, Houston, TX, 1939 Hydraulic Engineering M.S., University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, 1948 Ph.D., University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, 1950 LL.D Litt.D Faculty member at Rice University
(1942-46), University of Minnesota (1946-51), University of Southwestern Louisiana (1951-56) and Southern Illinois University (1956-57) Former head of the Department of Civil Engineering at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (1957-1970) Author of over 45 books regarding Creation-Evolution David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Miller wrote: I hate it when theologians are embarrassed of giving glory to the Creator in school.Lance wrote: You do KNOW, do you not David, that that's NOT the source of his embarrassment? Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many, are embarrassed over believers turning non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)There is more to
this issue that this. Is he embarrassed of certain brands of creationism? Of course. I am too. I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR group over there. At the same time, they serve a purpose in what they do, and we should not revolt to them so much that we accept the atheistic and scientific agenda of removing all references to the Creator from our public schools.You say it is a NON-ISSUE? I consider such a statement ignorant in the extreme. Deceptive to the core. There is one thing that the ICR group has illustrated, and that is that this is an issue.I talked with a student a few months ago, John Boyles, just before he was elected to be President of Student Government at the University of Florida. I talked with him about the persecution my daughter is undergoing at UF just because she believes the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful. He confided to me that he applied for a Rhodes scholarship to study
theology at Oxford. He was turned down because he argued in his oral examination / interview that the idea of Intelligent Design should be considered in the classroom. If this was a non-issue, these professors of theology would have tolerated his creationist convictions. I wish I could convey to you the grief this man carried over his own religious persecution by those who would not have him study theology because he believed intelligent design theories should be considered in school.I truly believe that these modern theologians assume that scientists are well studied in origins and are deeply convicted about the truth of evolutionary processes and the absurdity of the teaching of Genesis. When the truth comes out, they will be the ones who will be greatly embarrassed in the day of our Lord. The philosopher Thomas Khun was right in how he depicted the way science really operates. These theologians who object to Creationist
models of origins should pay attention to him just a little bit more.David Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Spoken like a true studen of RJR.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 22, 2006 21:05
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  Let's have them Teach Dominion Theology in school ; 
  )[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major 
school system  I am sure we can 
find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to 
worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to 
believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE 
DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!

jd

-- 
  Original message -- From: Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
  religious ppl have many
  and varied points of view about anything and 
  everything and this is no
  measure by which to gauge what is needful or 
  true.

  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 

WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
-- HUH ???

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  So?
  There isn't a single view of the whole church 
  that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. What does 
  that prove? judyt

  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I 
know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by 
the whole church. 

jd

-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 

   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 

   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
  purpose.

  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 

   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If 
  this 
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the fundies 

   -- go for it. But I doubt that it 
  can. What a shame 
   that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 

   the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 

   to introduce the Creator to others. 
  In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
  notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be 
  forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like 
  thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.

  David Miller

  Yahoo! 
  Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low 
rates.

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad





What is that supposed to mean?
It's no trouble to maketime for BSF or others who 
edify .. glorifying God with the fruit of
their lips.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:22:45 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  More time for BSF, Judy.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

I don't believe so Lance. I do believe she has her 
own ideas - that she is faithful where
God has her and that she is weary of the constant 
carping and criticism that one must
endure on this list. When I came it wasn't 
like this but this is what it has become.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:00:50 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Or, she swims in a shallow pond, 
  Judy.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 



I think she adjusts and adapts to 
theperceived depth of those she is addressing Lance


On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: 
"ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Baloney.
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Lance  Even at this late date such a 
response is unworthy of you. Israel,  on some  
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!  
  - Original Message -   From: 
"ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A 
Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin: Purim  
2006-Not All Authority is Bad
But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!)  
iz   -Original Message- 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Kevin  Deegan  Sent: Tuesday, March 
21, 2006 4:06 PM  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
 Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad   Lance says Israel, many times 
oppressed and, often by believers,  has  adopted 
the role of oppressor.   ROTFL 
 That is Ludicrous on the face of it.  Where did 
you pick this whopper up?   Perhaps you 
need a Geography lesson!  http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html 
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of 
 California,  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile 
Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640  TIMES her  
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare 
Arab  propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how 
dare anyone  believe  them! How can Israel, 
which occupies one-sixth of one percent of  the  
lands called Arab, be responsible for the political  
dissatisfaction of  22 Arab countries? How can the 
13 million Jews in the world  (almost 5  million 
fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems  
of  the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties 
to 1.4 billion  Muslims  
worldwide?   I guess DAVID OPPRESSED 
GOLIATH too  Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like 
the UN call for disarmament  of  David before he 
meets Goliath!  LOL  
   --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:   Lance chimes in: Just like 
you and I, Linda, John has gone on  the odd  
'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC!  
Sadly,  Israel, many times oppressed and, often by 
believers, has  adopted the  role of 
oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from 
Rabbi Daniel  Lapin:  Purim 2006-Not All 
Authority is Bad   
 There is little point in talking with someone 
who knows me  better  than I know 
me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the  
kind  of narrowness that I disregard. 
  jd 
  -- 
Original message --  
 From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Jd, I never 
said the Jews will be restored Outside of the  church; 
 they will be become believers. You say you don't 
dislike Jews  more  than any other 
unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do.  
Your  stereotypes and slurs are very 
revealing. Izzy   
  Romans 
11  Israel Is Not Cast 
Away  1I say then, God 
has not (A)rejected His people, has He?  (B)May 
 it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of 
 Abraham,  of the tribe of Benjamin. 
  2God 
(D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew  (F)Or 
do  you not know what the

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?




IFF David had 'nukes' (news flash - he does) then, 
yes.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:26
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in 
  Genesis literal or figurative?
  
  David Oppresses Goliath!
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



Somone would post a perceptive email 
then, Iz would say 'Bob's your uncle' while you would pull out your 
electronic concordance so as to cite every contra verse you could 
locate.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 17:35
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day 
  in Genesis literal or figurative?
  
  There you go again - as is your custom. You make 
  these great outlandish accusations
  and then when asked for evidence you shrink back 
  and put it all off on someone else.
  There has got to be a psychological term for ppl 
  like you, I know what my husband
  would say - something about bull dog mouth and 
  humming bird tail 
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
I watched whilst the two of you shot down 
the best of the 'layer-outers'. 
Close mindedness is the operative 
_expression_. Sad, sad, sad!

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  Your observations are delusions Lance; I have 
  learned much during my time on TT
  Just because you have no insight does not 
  negate the reality. Nor does it let you off
  the hook. If you have all of this 
  insight that DavidM and myself lack then it is your
  responsibility to lay it out. 
  judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Judy:Short of intervention by the 
Spirit of God, I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown 

anything on TT by anyone. I've observed 
this over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with 
this. 

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  If this were so Lance it would behoove 
  you who are in the "know" to lay it
  out clearly and succinctly so that we 
  might be corrected. So far I have not
  seen anything but tongue in cheek 
  comments that are often snide along with
  Personal shots 
  and put downs. So what is your problem??
  
  
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
  Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is 
  the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
  
  
  David:My interpretation of what you just said:
  
  'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've 
  tried so hardto get you to come around to see things our 
  (God's) way. You do not see themour (God's) way so, you do not 
  see at all!
  
  Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! 
  I'm 'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES 
  the two of you apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES 
  and only SOMETIMES that which is spokenof as being 'orthodox' 
  and the teaching of Scripture overlap.
  
  The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching 
  of Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong 
  vis a vis both Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of 
  you, on some occasions, are presumptuousto the nth 
  degree!!
  
  
  - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
  March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in 
  Genesis literal or figurative?
  
  
   Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between 
  Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has 
  been trying so hard to get you to see it. Martin Luther, 
  if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see 
  it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the 
  teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. We 
  repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do not 
  necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call 
  upon others to repent if they

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

You're soo deep, Iz.
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Baloney.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some
 occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!

 - Original Message - 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
 adopted the role of oppressor.

 ROTFL
 That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
 Where did you pick this whopper up?

 Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
 http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
 SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
 size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
 propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
 them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
 lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
 the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
 worldwide?

 I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
 Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
 David before he meets Goliath!
 LOL

 --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
 Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
 role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
 Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

   There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
 than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
 of narrowness that I disregard.

   jd

 -- Original message -- 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
 they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
 than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
 stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

 Romans 11
 Israel Is Not Cast Away
  1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
 it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
 of the tribe of Benjamin.

  2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
 you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
 he pleads with God against Israel?

  3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
 YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.

  4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for
 Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.

  5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
 time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

  6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
 works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

  7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
 those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;

  8just as it is written,
  (M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
  EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
  DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.

  9And David says,

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.)
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

You're soo deep, Iz.
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Baloney.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on 
some

occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
Purim

2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
adopted the role of oppressor.

ROTFL
That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
Where did you pick this whopper up?

Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
worldwide?

I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
David before he meets Goliath!
LOL

--- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

  There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
of narrowness that I disregard.

  jd

-- Original message -- 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

Romans 11
Israel Is Not Cast Away
 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
of the tribe of Benjamin.

 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
he pleads with God against Israel?

 3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.

 4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for
Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.

 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
those who were chosen obtained

[TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As 
has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
"harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved includes the 
long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless 
information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


  
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major 
school system  I am sure we can 
find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to 
worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to 
believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE 
DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! 
jd



From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
  religious ppl have many
  and varied points of view about anything and 
  everything and this is no
  measure by which to gauge what is needful or 
  true.
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 

WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
-- HUH ???

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  So?
  There isn't a single view of the whole church 
  that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. What does 
  that prove? judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I 
know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by 
the whole church. 

jd



-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
  
   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
  
   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
  purpose.
  
  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
  
   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If 
  this 
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the fundies 
  
   -- go for it. But I doubt that it 
  can. What a shame 
   that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
  
   the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
  
   to introduce the Creator to others. 
  In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
  notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be 
  forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like 
  thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.
  
  David Miller
  


  
  
  Yahoo! 
  Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low 
rates.

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad









You are only bothered by the fact that I
couldnt care less about your (or jds) opinion of me. The
Lord is the One whose opinion matters to me, and before Him alone I stand or
fall. He tells me not to waste my time trying to reason with hardened
hearts, as that is His realm and not mine. (Gnash your teeth.) izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
5:01 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special
Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad







Or, she swims in a shallow pond, Judy.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 22, 2006
15:45





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A
Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

















I think she adjusts and adapts to
theperceived depth of those she is addressing Lance

















On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 You're soo deep, Iz.
\
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Baloney.






  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Lance
  Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, 
 on some
  occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
 Lapin: Purim
  2006-Not All Authority is Bad
 
 
  But Israel
oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) 
 iz
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Kevin 
 Deegan
  Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
 Lapin: Purim
  2006-Not All Authority is Bad
 
  Lance says Israel,
many times oppressed and, often by believers, 
 has
  adopted the role of oppressor.
 
  ROTFL
  That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
  Where did you pick this whopper up?
 
  Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
  http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
  Israel in RED
, is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of 
 California,
  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 
 TIMES her
  size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare
Arab
  propagandists call Israel expansionist!
And how dare anyone 
 believe
  them! How can Israel,
which occupies one-sixth of one percent of 
 the
  lands called Arab, be responsible for the political 
 dissatisfaction of
  22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world

 (almost 5
  million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems

 of
  the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4
billion 
 Muslims
  worldwide?
 
  I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
  Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament 
 of
  David before he meets Goliath!
  LOL
 
 
 
  --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 
  Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on

 the odd
  'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! 
 Sadly,
  Israel,
many times oppressed and, often by believers, has 
 adopted the
  role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from
Rabbi Daniel 
 Lapin:
  Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
 
 
  There is little point in talking with someone who
knows me 
 better
  than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the
product of the 
 kind
  of narrowness that I disregard.
 
  jd
 
  -- Original message
-- 
  From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Jd, I never said the Jews will be
restored Outside of the 
 church;
  they will be become believers. You say you don't
dislike Jews 
 more
  than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that
you do. 
 Your
  stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy
 
 
 
  Romans 11
  Israel Is Not Cast Away
  1I say then, God has not
(A)rejected His people, has He? 
 (B)May
  it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of 
 Abraham,
  of the tribe of Benjamin.
 
  2God (D)has not rejected His
people whom He (E)foreknew 
 (F)Or do
  you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about 
 Elijah, how
  he pleads with God against Israel?
 
  3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE
KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN 
 DOWN
  YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY 
 LIFE.
 
  4But what is the divine
response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT 
 for
  Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO
BAAL.
 
  5In the same way then, there
has also come to be at the 
 present
  time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
 
  6But (J)if it is by

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




There are as many 'species' of creationists as 
fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up 
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your 
honor.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? 
  As has already been noted "Only when we prove
  evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
  "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
  this level of proof has not been achieved includes 
  the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
  Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
  scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
  would you want to warp young minds with useless 
  information that is not proven? judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  

  I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
  systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
  Amazing
  
  Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
  major school system  I am sure 
  we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would 
  have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea 
  what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE 
  DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! 
  jd
  
  
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything and 
everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful or 
true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 
  
  WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
  -- HUH ???
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the whole 
church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does 
that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I 
  know this -- 
  there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon 
  by the whole church. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 

 IMO. But creationism in the 
schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 

 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 

 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If 
this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 
 education without it being coopted by the 
fundies 
 -- go for it. But I doubt that it 
can. What a shame 
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 

 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 

 to introduce the Creator to others. 
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be 
forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like 
thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.

David Miller

  
  


Yahoo! 
Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low 
  rates.

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable of doing. Too
bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.)
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 You're soo deep, Iz.
 - Original Message - 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Baloney.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on 
 some
 occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!

 - Original Message - 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
 Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
 adopted the role of oppressor.

 ROTFL
 That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
 Where did you pick this whopper up?

 Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
 http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
 SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
 size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
 propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
 them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
 lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
 the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
 worldwide?

 I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
 Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
 David before he meets Goliath!
 LOL

 --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
 Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
 role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
 Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

   There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
 than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
 of narrowness that I disregard.

   jd

 -- Original message -- 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
 they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
 than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
 stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

 Romans 11
 Israel Is Not Cast Away
  1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
 it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
 of the tribe of Benjamin.

  2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
 you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
 he pleads with God against Israel?

  3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
 YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE

Re: [TruthTalk] Trailer of a new movie: Freedom to Fascism




There is no 'mark of the beast', Marlin. Wait just 
a sec...Tim LaHay does have a new book coming out in June (June 6.06...is that 
666?) I take it all back. If Tim says it.

--- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Marlin halverson 
  Sent: March 22, 2006 21:49
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Trailer of a new 
  movie: Freedom to Fascism
  
  Some of the contentis about taxes, but there are 
  prophetic ramifications to buying and selling and the mark of the beast. 
  There are three media players to choose from for the preview.
  
  http://www.freedomtofascism.com/w_high.html

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

More of your PsyhcoassertionISM? Besides you prefer Opinions of one as RW with NO ABSOLUTE MORALS and No clear idea of what he believes. He is afloat on the sea of consensus. Lets call a meeting of men to get all the opinions tally them till we get consensus or majority. What a basis for Truth! Catholic Bishop Rowan Williams is all about OPINIONShttp://episcopalwomenscaucus.org/ruach/Fall2002_vol23_2_3/01Archbishop.html The consensus has a MIND: Williams said the declaration against homosexual unions and the ordination of practicing homosexuals "declares clearly what is the mind of the overwhelming majority in the Communion" IN MY OPINION since the
consensus(general) MIND 'Despite the levels of bitter controversy over sexuality in the Communion, I do not hear much enthusiasm for revisiting in 2008 the last Lambeth Conference's resolution on this matter. In my judgement, we cannot properly or usefully re-open the discussion as if Resolution 1.10 of Lambeth 1998 did not continue to represent the general mind of the Communion.' 2008 Letter from RW - Lambeth 2008 http://www.evangelicals.org/news.asp?id=357The majority conviction is after all just a Majority OPINION "I have to distinguish plainly between personal theories and interpretations and the majority conviction of my Church, and have always tried to make such a distinction when I have been questioned on this subject," he
said. "My ideas have no authority beyond that of an individual theologian." Check the SOURCE Fellas why not read the letter yourself? Letter sent to all 38 primates of the Anglican Church in 1998 Lambeth Resolution http://cpsajoburg.org.za/socres/sexuality/sex_refl/sex_ref12.html Afraid of facts, like to live in Ignorance? Make it sound Holy whilst he does his subversive "work" What is Bishop Williams' solution to "a substantial problem for the sacramental unity of the Communion"? He hints: "my main hope will be to try and maintain a prayerful listening to Scripture envisaged by Lambeth". It's not a very promising assurance. It sounds rather like the usual
p.c. cant, ostensibly espousing a cautious moderation while in fact permissive in the face of radical change. By now, we know what "prayerful listening" too often means: endless "dialogue" in which all points of view are entertained equally, and leading to the overturning of the official consensus. Dec 2002 Anglican Free PressWell there you have more facts now WHAT is your OPINION? And why can't you guys do your own Homework? Truth can not be found in the consensus of a group of SOPHISTS and that by design! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What gender are you when offering up an opinion?- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 16:15 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? The STANDARD of ORTHODOXY in RW's eyes as shown in his own words is The opinions of
Men in the consensus of his churchDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do not necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy. The standard of Orthodoxy and the standard of the Bible are two different things. Why can't you see that?David Miller- Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning theTriune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresythat is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, thatdoes not change what it is in this context.- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how can you use the word repent in regards to this? Do you really think it is a sin for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead? David Miller - Original Message
- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? In short, Modalism !! Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd -- Original

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

When did it change Judy?Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't believe so Lance. I do believe she has her own ideas - that she is faithful where God has her and that she is weary of the constant carping and criticism that one must endure on this list. When I came it wasn't like this but this is what it has become.On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:00:50 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Or, she swims in a shallow pond, Judy.
From: Judy Taylor I think she adjusts and adapts to theperceived depth of those she is addressing Lance On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baloney.[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance
Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is BadBut Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of
California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is BadThere is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews
more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." 4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained,
but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened; 8just as it is written, "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." 9And David says, "(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10"(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER." 11(P)I say then, they did not

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Are they indeed?

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 07:09
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable of doing. 
Too

bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.)
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

You're soo deep, Iz.
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Baloney.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
Purim

2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on
some
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
Purim

2006-Not All Authority is Bad

But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
adopted the role of oppressor.

ROTFL
That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
Where did you pick this whopper up?

Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
worldwide?

I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
David before he meets Goliath!
LOL

--- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

  There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
of narrowness that I disregard.

  jd

-- Original message -- 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

Romans 11
Israel Is Not Cast Away
 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
of the tribe of Benjamin.

 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
you not know what the Scripture says in the

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




But only One Creator and only one kind who believe what 
is written as is.
Take your pick. I see no point in running after more 
darkness and/or presumption. 

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  There are as many 'species' of creationists as 
  fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up 
  with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your 
  honor.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? 
As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
"harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved includes 
the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless 
information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
major school system  I am 
sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you 
would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the 
slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be 
happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT 
SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd



From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
  religious ppl have many
  and varied points of view about anything and 
  everything and this is no
  measure by which to gauge what is needful or 
  true.
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 

WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
-- HUH ???

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  So?
  There isn't a single view of the whole 
  church that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. What 
  does that prove? judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. 
I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
upon by the whole church. 

jd



-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary 
  process, 
   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
  
   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious 
  on purpose.
  
  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests 
  God 
   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) 
  If this 
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the 
  fundies 
   -- go for it. But I doubt that it 
  can. What a shame 
   that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom 
  forces 
   the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful 
  opportunity 
   to introduce the Creator to others. 
  In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
  notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be 
  forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies 
  like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing 
  this.
  
  David Miller
  


  
  
  Yahoo! 
  Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low 
rates.

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad




It didn't Lance, you are lacking eyes 
thatsee

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:16:19 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  When did it change Judy?Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  



I don't believe so Lance. I do believe she has her 
own ideas - that she is faithful where
God has her and that she is weary of the constant 
carping and criticism that one must
endure on this list. When I came it wasn't 
like this but this is what it has become.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:00:50 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Or, she swims in a shallow pond, 
  Judy.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 



I think she adjusts and adapts to 
theperceived depth of those she is addressing Lance


On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: 
"ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Baloney.
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Lance  Even at this late date such a 
response is unworthy of you. Israel,  on some  
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!  
  - Original Message -   From: 
"ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A 
Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin: Purim  
2006-Not All Authority is Bad
But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!)  
iz   -Original Message- 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Kevin  Deegan  Sent: Tuesday, March 
21, 2006 4:06 PM  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
 Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad   Lance says Israel, many times 
oppressed and, often by believers,  has  adopted 
the role of oppressor.   ROTFL 
 That is Ludicrous on the face of it.  Where did 
you pick this whopper up?   Perhaps you 
need a Geography lesson!  http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html 
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of 
 California,  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile 
Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640  TIMES her  
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare 
Arab  propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how 
dare anyone  believe  them! How can Israel, 
which occupies one-sixth of one percent of  the  
lands called Arab, be responsible for the political  
dissatisfaction of  22 Arab countries? How can the 
13 million Jews in the world  (almost 5  million 
fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems  
of  the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties 
to 1.4 billion  Muslims  
worldwide?   I guess DAVID OPPRESSED 
GOLIATH too  Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like 
the UN call for disarmament  of  David before he 
meets Goliath!  LOL  
   --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:   Lance chimes in: Just like 
you and I, Linda, John has gone on  the odd  
'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC!  
Sadly,  Israel, many times oppressed and, often by 
believers, has  adopted the  role of 
oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from 
Rabbi Daniel  Lapin:  Purim 2006-Not All 
Authority is Bad   
 There is little point in talking with someone 
who knows me  better  than I know 
me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the  
kind  of narrowness that I disregard. 
  jd 
  -- 
Original message --  
 From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Jd, I never 
said the Jews will be restored Outside of the  church; 
 they will be become believers. You say you don't 
dislike Jews  more  than any other 
unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do.  
Your  stereotypes and slurs are very 
revealing. Izzy   
  Romans 
11  Israel Is Not Cast 
Away  1I say then, God 
has not (A)rejected His people, has He?  (B)May 
 it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of 
 Abraham,  of the tribe of Benjamin. 
  2God 
(D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew  (F)Or 
do  you not know what the Scripture says in the 
passage about  Elijah, how  he

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




Is it just possible that we may be going out on a 
note of agreement, Judy? 'One Creator'! Amen! 'believe what is written as is' 
Amen once again as I most certainly do. (flee) darkness and/or presumption! That 
makes for three Amen's, Judy. Now what can we do to convince David Miller and 
Kevin about that which we (you and I) believe?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 07:26
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  But only One Creator and only one kind who believe 
  what is written as is.
  Take your pick. I see no point in running after more 
  darkness and/or presumption. 
  
  On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
There are as many 'species' of creationists as 
fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up 
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your 
honor.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
  JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
  evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
  "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
  this level of proof has not been achieved 
  includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
  abandoned
  Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
  scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
  would you want to warp young minds with useless 
  information that is not proven? judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  

  I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
  systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
  Amazing
  
  Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
  major school system  I am 
  sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you 
  would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the 
  slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be 
  happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT 
  SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd
  
  
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything 
and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful 
or true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 
  
  WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
  -- HUH ???
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the whole 
church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What 
does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I 
  do. I know this -- 
  there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
  upon by the whole church. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary 
process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the 
schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a 
fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 

ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being 
facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests 
God 
 is somehow in control as the 
Creator(?) If this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 

 education without it being coopted by the 
fundies 
 -- go for it. But I doubt that 
it can. What a shame 
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!

Another Popular liberal Fable!  It is laughable how those that claim to be so with it are lost in a fog of fableISM  while they inherit the wind. The facts bear out that McCarthyISM was CORRECT about Communist infiltration of the US government includingeven White House advisors!  Do your homework"A fool has no delight in understanding, but in expressing his own heart." Proverbs 18:2  "He who trusts in his own heart is a fool" Proverbs 28:26   "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, 'He catches the wise in their own craftiness'; and again, 'The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.'" 1 Corinthians
 3:19-20  their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools..." Romans 1:20-22  "The way of a fool is right in his own eyes." Proverbs 12:15  the companion of fools will be destroyed." Proverbs 13:20  CLOSE YOUR EYES NOW OBJECTIONABLE FACTS BELOW  VENONA transcripts and material from Eastern bloc intelligence archives after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991show that the general contention that Communist spies had infiltrated the federal government was true. The American Communist Party (CPUSA) had senior members in the pay of the Soviet Union. Communist spies included Julius Rosenberg and Theodore Hall, who gave nuclear secrets to the Soviets, and Harry Dexter White, who was the founding head of the (IMF) International Monetary Fund. Alger Hiss, a highly placed State Department officer and the first, interim Secretary General of the United Nations, was also a Soviet agent,Harry Hopkins, one of Franklin Delano Roosevelts top advisors, was also an agent  http://www.nsa.gov/venona/index.cfmhttp://www.cia.gov/csi/books/venona/venona.htm  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/venona/intercepts.htmlOK open your eyes now.  http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article2539.html  Venona: What My Father Didnt Knowby Alan Caruba14 August 2003  Joe
 McCarthy was right, but by now his name has been turned into a dirty word by the same liberal, leftist propaganda machine that today is trying to convince Americans the President lied to them about Iraq.  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Are you now or, have you ever been a member of.?Senator McCarthy lives! See 'Good Night and Good Luck'.. - Original Message -   From: Kevin
 Deegan   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Sent: March 22, 2006 16:39  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!STILL WAITING  Do you support books in Canadian Libraries that encourage Suicide Bombing?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in spite of all the evidence.David Miller- Original Message -   From: Kevin Deegan   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 PM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little aggitated.Please provide one quote:  Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin  Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete annihilation of an Arab state 
 Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead arabs  Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above their heads  Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah thinks of them  where Jews torture muslims  Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!  Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing bombing muslims  Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslimsThe Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on it's face!  Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little intimidating! LOLhttp://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php  Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended
 by Canadian librarieshttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts  The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and burnt yesterday.  In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN Libraries???Are these Jewish BOYS  Then again Who is oppressing who?  They oppress their own people!  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/  Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the
 Palestinians' mistreatment of children?  ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!

Only because you have a short understanding as in ; ) Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Only because you have a short memory.- Original Message -   From: Kevin Deegan   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Sent: March 22, 2006 16:49  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!  HEY I will HIGH FIVE ya on that! ; )David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   There were many years of TruthTalk without Lance and JD. No, it was not a lot of backslapping.David Miller- Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 1:27 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!Hmm curiouser  curiouserBehind the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM  KD? As John, the good bishop said, without the you-know-who's
 on TT it'd be one grand backslapping 'hail fellow well met'- Original Message - From: David MillerTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: March 22, 2006 13:10Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in spite of all the evidence.David Miller- Original Message - From: Kevin DeeganTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little aggitated.Please provide one quote:Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or verminWhere a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete annihilation of an Arab stateWhere the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead arabsWhere Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above their
 headsWhere a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah thinks of themwhere Jews torture muslimsShow me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing bombing muslimsShow me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslimsThe Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on it's face!Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little intimidating! LOLhttp://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.phpSuicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian librarieshttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/postsThe body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and burnt yesterday.In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN
 Libraries???Are these Jewish BOYSThen again Who is oppressing who?They oppress their own people!http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the Palestinians' mistreatment of children?ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on someoccasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily"To:Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction
 of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Apparently so, Lance.  In the past I have often attempted to reason with you
and your friends, as Judy and David and Kevin still do, with facts and
reasonable discussion.  But instead of responding with further discussion,
one is only met with belittling, derision and mocking. Anything that comes
from faith and the heart, from the Bible or the Holy Spirit is scorned.
That type of response is what eventually causes the Lord to turn a person
over to their sin until they have had their fill of it.  There comes a time
when Believers should no longer strive with scoffers. Matthew 7:6
 Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before
swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to
pieces. One can only wait with an open heart for the prodigals to repent and
return.  That is why I look forward to David closing TruthTalk, as it
currently seems to provide too much of a forum for men to sin and bring
judgment upon themselves. I hope one day to embrace each and every one of
you on the other side, where we will all be adoring Jesus together. Matthew
19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them,  With people this is
impossible, but with God all things are possible.  Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 6:19 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Are they indeed?


- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 07:09
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad


 Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable of doing. 
 Too
 bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
 Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.)
 - Original Message - 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad


 I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 You're soo deep, Iz.
 - Original Message - 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad


 Baloney.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
 Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on
 some
 occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!


 - Original Message - 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
 Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad


 But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
 Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
 adopted the role of oppressor.

 ROTFL
 That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
 Where did you pick this whopper up?

 Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
 http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
 SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
 size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
 propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
 them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
 lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
 the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!




Preach it bro! (a modest tribute (bro) to someone 
who appears trapped in the 60's musically but, not theologically)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 07:41
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
  sheppard opresses Giant!
  
  Only because you have a short understanding as in ; ) 
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



Only because you have a short 
memory.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 16:49
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
  sheppard opresses Giant!
  HEY I will HIGH FIVE ya on that! 
  ; )David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  There 
were many years of TruthTalk without Lance and JD. No, it was not a lot 
of backslapping.David Miller- Original Message - 
From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 1:27 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy 
faced sheppard opresses Giant!Hmm curiouser  
curiouserBehind the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM  
KD? As John, the good bishop said, without the you-know-who's on TT 
it'd be one grand backslapping 'hail fellow well met'- Original 
Message - From: David MillerTo: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: March 22, 2006 13:10Subject: 
Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses 
Giant!Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the 
"harumph" in spite of all the evidence.David Miller- 
Original Message - From: Kevin DeeganTo: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 
PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses 
Giant!After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a 
little aggitated.Please provide one quote:Where a Jew calls 
an arab a Rat Dog or verminWhere a leader of the nation of Israel 
calls for the complete annihilation of an Arab stateWhere the 
Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead arabsWhere 
Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above 
their headsWhere a jew drives his car through a crowd to show 
them what Jehovah thinks of themwhere Jews torture 
muslimsShow me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human 
bomb!Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) 
endorsing bombing muslimsShow me Jewish TV shows endorsing 
Bombing muslimsThe Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the 
GIANT - Ludicrous on it's face!Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard 
boy does look a little intimidating! 
LOLhttp://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.phpSuicide bombing 
endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian 
librarieshttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/postsThe 
body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists 
blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and 
burnt yesterday.In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP 
funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN 
Libraries???Are these Jewish BOYSThen again 
Who is oppressing who?They oppress their own 
people!http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/Turning a blind eye 
to child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the 
Palestinians' mistreatment of children?ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? 
Slingshot MISHAP?Lance Muir 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Even at this late date such a response 
is unworthy of you. Israel, on someoccasions (see it's Lebanese 
incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: 
"ShieldsFamily"To:Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: 
[TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim2006-Not 
All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by 
EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original 
Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin 
Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often 
by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. 
ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you 
pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography 
lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel 
in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, 
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES 
her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

AGAIN you show your Short Comprehension I am NOT a REFORMED CATHOLIC. wrong slot Lance, better take it to your friends for a consensusWhat do you know of RJR? Not as much as you think, I suppose. He is NOT a Fundamentalist Like Papa like son, bring out the stake Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spoken like a true studen of RJR.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 21:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Let's have them Teach Dominion Theology in school ; )[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system
I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!jd-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true.
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ???From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judytOn Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. jd-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The world in which we live would rejectany mention of God in the evolutionary process,IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could
that not be considered the beginnings of a fanaticalfundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose.John wrote: But to allow a mere statement that suggests Godis somehow in control as the Creator(?) If thiscould be presented into the secular system ofeducation without it being coopted by the fundies-- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shamethat radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forcesthe Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunityto introduce the Creator to others. In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is
the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.David MillerYahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Apparently not, Linda.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 07:47
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Apparently so, Lance.  In the past I have often attempted to reason with 
you

and your friends, as Judy and David and Kevin still do, with facts and
reasonable discussion.  But instead of responding with further discussion,
one is only met with belittling, derision and mocking. Anything that comes
from faith and the heart, from the Bible or the Holy Spirit is scorned.
That type of response is what eventually causes the Lord to turn a person
over to their sin until they have had their fill of it.  There comes a 
time

when Believers should no longer strive with scoffers. Matthew 7:6
 Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before
swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you 
to
pieces. One can only wait with an open heart for the prodigals to repent 
and

return.  That is why I look forward to David closing TruthTalk, as it
currently seems to provide too much of a forum for men to sin and bring
judgment upon themselves. I hope one day to embrace each and every one of
you on the other side, where we will all be adoring Jesus together. 
Matthew

19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them,  With people this is
impossible, but with God all things are possible.  Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 6:19 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Are they indeed?

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 07:09
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable of doing.
Too
bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.)
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
Purim

2006-Not All Authority is Bad

You're soo deep, Iz.
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
Purim

2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Baloney.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on
some
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
adopted the role of oppressor.

ROTFL
That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
Where did you pick this whopper up?

Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
lands called Arab, be responsible for the political

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

NEWS FLASH! http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAELDo you have a similar one citing Jews saying similar? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IFF David had 'nukes' (news flash - he does) then, yes.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 06:26 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?David Oppresses Goliath! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somone would post a perceptive email then, Iz would say 'Bob's your uncle' while you
would pull out your electronic concordance so as to cite every contra verse you could locate.- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 17:35 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
There you go again - as is your custom. You make these great outlandish accusations and then when asked for evidence you shrink back and put it all off on someone else. There has got to be a psychological term for ppl like you, I know what my husband would say - something about bull dog mouth and humming bird tail On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I watched whilst the two of you shot down the best of the 'layer-outers'. Close mindedness is the operative _expression_. Sad, sad, sad!From: Judy Taylor Your observations are delusions Lance; I have learned much during my time on TT Just because you have no insight does not negate the reality. Nor does it let you off the hook. If you have all of this insight that DavidM and myself lack then it is your responsibility to lay it out. judytOn Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Judy:Short of intervention by the Spirit of God, I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown anything on TT by anyone. I've observed this over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with this. From: Judy Taylor If this were so Lance it would behoove you who are in the "know" to lay it out clearly and succinctly so that we might be corrected. So far I have not seen anything but tongue in cheek comments that are often snide along with Personal shots and put downs. So what is your problem?? From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? David:My interpretation of what you just said:'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried so hardto get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do not see themour (God's) way so, you do not see at all!Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm 'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of you apprehendTHE TEACHING OF
SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that which is spokenof as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture overlap.The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a vis both Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on some occasions, are presumptuousto the nth degree!! - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see
it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do not necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy. The standard of Orthodoxy and the standard of the Bible are two different things. Why can't you see that? David Miller - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the
light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, that does not change what it is in this context. - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how can you use the word repent in

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




Is KD a pseudonym for Gary North? Have you finally 
come out of hiding after the Y2K fiasco? I do believe that were we to remove the 
hoods from some on TT we would see that which underlies the hatred that you 
spread throughout the mid-east and, elsewhere.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 07:50
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  AGAIN you show your Short Comprehension
  I am NOT a REFORMED CATHOLIC.
  wrong slot Lance, better take it to your friends for a consensus
  
  What do you know of RJR?
  Not as much as you think, I suppose.
  He is NOT a Fundamentalist
  Like Papa like son, bring out the stake
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

Spoken like a true studen of RJR.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 21:05
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
  on Creationism
  Let's have them Teach Dominion Theology in school ; 
  )[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
Amazing


Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
major school system  I am 
sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you 
would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the 
slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be 
happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT 
SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!

jd



-- 
  Original message -- From: Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
  religious ppl have many
  and varied points of view about anything and 
  everything and this is no
  measure by which to gauge what is needful or 
  true.
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 

WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
-- HUH ???

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  So?
  There isn't a single view of the whole 
  church that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. What 
  does that prove? judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. 
I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
upon by the whole church. 

jd



-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary 
  process, 
   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
  
   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious 
  on purpose.
  
  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests 
  God 
   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) 
  If this 
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the 
  fundies 
   -- go for it. But I doubt that it 
  can. What a shame 
   that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom 
  forces 
   the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful 
  opportunity 
   to introduce the Creator to others. 
  In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
  notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be 
  forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies 
  like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing 
  this.
  
  David Miller
  


  
  
  Yahoo! 
  Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You are only bothered by the fact that I couldnt care less about your (or jds) opinion of me. The Lord is the One whose opinion matters to me, and before Him alone I stand or fall. He tells me not to waste my time trying to reason with hardened hearts, as that is His realm and not mine. (Gnash your teeth.) izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:01 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Or, she swims in a shallow pond, Judy. - Original Message - From: Judy
Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 15:45Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is BadI think she adjusts and adapts to theperceived depth of those she is addressing LanceOn Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baloney. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance Even at this late date such a response is
unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is BadBut Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography
lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab
countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is BadThere is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Nice attempt to CYA Kevin but, I'd suggest to rent
'The Control Room' as a rebuttal.

- Original Message -

From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: March 23, 2006 07:52
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in
Genesis literal or figurative?

NEWS FLASH!
http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm
RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST
ISRAEL

Do you have a similar one citing Jews saying similar?
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

IFF David had 'nukes' (news flash - he does)
then, yes.

- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: March 23, 2006 06:26
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day
in Genesis literal or figurative?

David Oppresses Goliath!
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Somone would post a perceptive email
then, Iz would say 'Bob's your uncle' while you would pull out your
electronic concordance so as to cite every contra verse you could
locate.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: March 22, 2006 17:35
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the
day in Genesis literal or figurative?

There you go again - as is your custom. You
make these great outlandish accusations
and then when asked for evidence you shrink
back and put it all off on someone else.
There has got to be a psychological term for
ppl like you, I know what my husband
would say - something about bull dog mouth
and humming bird tail

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

I watched whilst the two of you shot
down the best of the 'layer-outers'.
Close mindedness is the operative
_expression_. Sad, sad, sad!

From: Judy Taylor

Your observations are delusions Lance; I
have learned much during my time on TT
Just because you have no insight does not
negate the reality. Nor does it let you off
the hook. If you have all of this
insight that DavidM and myself lack then it is your
responsibility to lay it out.
judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Judy:Short of intervention by the
Spirit of God, I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown

anything on TT by anyone. I've
observed this over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll
disagree with this.

From: Judy Taylor

If this were so Lance it would
behoove you who are in the "know" to lay it
out clearly and succinctly so that we
might be corrected. So far I have not
seen anything but tongue in cheek
comments that are often snide along with
Personal shots and put downs. So what is your
problem??

From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

David:My interpretation of what you just said:

'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen.
We've tried so hardto get you to come around to see things
our (God's) way. You do not see themour (God's) way so,
you do not see at all!

Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two
make! I'm 'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only
SOMETIMES the two of you apprehendTHE TEACHING OF
SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that which is
spokenof as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture
overlap.

The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual
teaching of Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of
you are wrong vis a vis both Scripture'steaching and

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

I am talking about what we teach in school and Judy comes back with something about"the secret things" and then Kevin, bless his little heart, comes back with something about reading the Bible --- NEW FLASH !!! ObviouslyTT as a DISCUSSION GROUP died some time ago !!

Over here , guys !! I am the one talking about .. oh, never mind.

You guys are a hoot !! At least I don't have to worry about defending myself since none of us are talking about the same things -- and you guysbelieve unity is "speaking and thinking the same things??""LOL !!

-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is in the Bible READ IT[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

what on earth are you talking about, Judy !!! Secret things ??? So you decided to just stay off subject? Whatever.

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Some ppl are willing to let God be God JD
The secret things belong to the Lord and as Kevin says; let the ppl serving
Caesar fumble around and follow whatever way the wind is blowing.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:34:20 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Someone said
render to Cesear what is Cesear's [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. That A E were spirit people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that says it took God 144 hours to speak words that canbe spoken in 24 seconds !!! I just did it in 24 big ones !! including a drink of water because my mouth was getting dry.

Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad Fundies cannot agree on much of anything. Which version goes into the school system ??? We are still waiting??

-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Don't you get it JT?
TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!
The opinions of Men are the key.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

So?
There isn't a single fiew of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this --
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church.

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]

John wrote:
The world in which we live would reject
any mention of God in the evolutionary process,
IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could
that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical
fundamentalist take-over of the culture?
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
But to allow a mere statement that suggests God
is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this
could be presented into the secular system of
education without it being coopted by the fundies
-- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame
that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces
the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity
to introduce the Creator to others.
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.

David Miller

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses.

My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. 

jd 

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system  I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd



From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful or true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 
WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ???

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. 

jd



-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 
 education without it being coopted by the fundies 
 -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame 
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
 to introduce the Creator to others. 
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.

David Miller





Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad


Yet, how much time did you spend doing the same to others !!?? Give me a break.

jd

-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable of doing. Too  bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz   -Original Message-  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is Bad   Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.)  - Original Message -  From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is Bad I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz -Original Message-   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir   Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim   2006-Not All Authority is Bad You're soo deep, Iz.   - Original Message -   From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  To:   Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim   2006-Not All Authority is Bad   Baloney. -
Original Message-   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir   Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim   2006-Not All Authority is Bad Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on   some   occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!   - Original Message -   From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  To:   Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim   2006-Not All Authority is Bad  
; But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message-   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan   Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:   Purim   2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has   adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL   That is Ludicrous on the face of it.   Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!   http://www.masada2000.org/
geography.html   Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,   SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her   size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab   propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe   them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the   lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of   22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5   million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of   the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims   worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too   Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of   David before he meets Goliath!   LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd   'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,   Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the   role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:   Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad   There is little point in ta
lking with someone who knows me better   than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind   of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message --   From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;   they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more   than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your   stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11   Israel Is Not Cast Away   1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May <
BR>  it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,   of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Oh, I guess he does KNOW, Judy.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 23, 2006 08:29
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism

  What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You 
  are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big 
  banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In 
  fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time 
  for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean 
  evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who 
  digresses.

  My point? If the church had not surrendered its college 
  ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need 
  this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our 
  senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that 
  WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB 
  -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD 
  --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the 
  lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time 
  preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of 
  benevolent blessings to others. 

  jd 

  -- 
Original message -- From: Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? 
As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
"harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved includes 
the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless 
information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
major school system  I am 
sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you 
would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the 
slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be 
happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT 
SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
  religious ppl have many
  and varied points of view about anything and 
  everything and this is no
  measure by which to gauge what is needful or 
  true.

  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 

WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
-- HUH ???

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  So?
  There isn't a single view of the whole 
  church that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. What 
  does that prove? judyt

  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. 
I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
upon by the whole church. 

jd

-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary 
  process, 
   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 

   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious 
  on purpose.

  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests 
  God 
   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) 
  If this 
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the 
  fundies 
   -- go for it. But I doubt that it

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad




Were someone to retrieve all of the 'Shields 
family' posts then, place them alongside the knpraise' posts with an eye to 
genuine content.case closed!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 08:32
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special 
  Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
  
  Yet, how much time did you spend doing the same to others 
  !!?? Give me a break.
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable 
of doing. Too  bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz  
 -Original Message-  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
 Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM  To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad   Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. 
(That's gwine reach me.)  - Original Message -  
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
 Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36  
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad I'm 
just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz  
   -Original Message-   From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir  
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM   To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim   2006-Not All Authority 
is Bad You're soo deep, Iz.  
 - Original Message -   From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  To: 
  Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22 
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
Lapin: Purim   2006-Not All Authority is Bad   
Baloney. 
- Original Message-   From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir  
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM   To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A 
Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim   2006-Not 
All Authority is Bad Even at this late 
date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on   some 
  occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES! 
  - Original Message 
-   From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  To: 
  Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49 
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi 
Daniel Lapin: Purim   2006-Not All Authority is Bad  
 ; But Israel oppresses its 
enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz
 -Original Message-   From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM  
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Subject: 
Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:  
 Purim   2006-Not All Authority is Bad 
Lance says Israel, many times 
oppressed and, often by believers, has   adopted the 
role of oppressor. ROTFL 
  That is Ludicrous on the face of it.  
 Where did you pick this whopper up?   
  Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!  
 http://www.masada2000.org/ geography.html   
Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, 
  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships 
with 640 TIMES her   size, 60 TIMES her population and 
ALL the oil. How dare Arab   propagandists call Israel 
"expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe   them! How 
can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the  
 lands called Arab, be responsible for the political 
dissatisfaction of   22 Arab countries? How can the 13 
million Jews in the world (almost 5   million fewer than 
they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of   the 
300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims  
 worldwide? I guess 
DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too   Israel Oppressing 
the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of   David 
before he meets Goliath!   LOL   
  --- Lance 
Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
 Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone 
on the odd   'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO 
WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,   Israel, many times 
oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the   
role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.  
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  
 Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11

[TruthTalk] Thinking..............


   Subject: FW: Thinking..
  
   It started out innocently enough.
  
   I began to think at parties now and then -- to loosen up.
   Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I
   was more than just a social thinker.
  
   I began to think alone -- to relax, I told myself -- but I
   knew it wasn't true.  Thinking became more and more
   important to me, and finally I was thinking all the time.
   That was when things began to sour at home.
  
   One evening I had turned off the TV and asked my wife about
   the meaning of life.  She spent that night at her mother's.
  
   I began to think on the job.  I knew that thinking and
   employment don't mix, but I couldn't stop myself.  I began
   to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau and
   Kafka.  I would return to the office dizzied and confused,
   asking, What is it exactly we are doing here?
  
   One day the boss called me in.  He said, Listen, I like
   you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has
   become a real problem.  If you don't stop thinking on the
   job, you'll have to find another job.
  
   This gave me a lot to think about.  I came home early after
   my conversation with the boss.
  
   Honey, I confessed, I've been thinking...  I know
   you've been thinking, she said, and I want a divorce!
  
   But Honey, surely it's not that serious.  It is serious,
   she said, lower lip aquiver.  You think as much as college
   professors, and college professors don't make any money, so
   if you keep on thinking, we won't have any money!
  
   That's a faulty syllogism, I said impatiently.
  
   She exploded in tears of rage and frustration, but I was in
   no mood to deal with the emotional drama.  I'm going to
   the library, I snarled as I stomped out the door.  I
   headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche.
  
   I roared into the parking lot with NPR on the radio and ran
   up to the big glass doors...  They didn't open!  The
   library was closed!
  
   To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out
   for me that night.  Leaning on the unfeeling glass,
   whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye.
   Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life? it asked.
  
   You probably recognize that line.  It comes from the
   standard Thinker's Anonymous poster.  Which is why I am
   what I am today: a recovering thinker.
  
   I never miss a TA meeting.  At each meeting we watch a
   non-educational video; last week it was Porky's. Then we
   share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the
   last meeting.
  
   I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home.
   Life just seemed...easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped
   thinking.
  
   I think the road to recovery is nearly complete for me.
  
   Today, I registered to vote as a Democrat.
  
  
   
  



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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[TruthTalk] FW: ....A MUST to see...February 2, 2006 Rainbow at Elam Bend (McFall, Missouri)













.A MUST to see...February 2, 2006 Rainbow at Elam Bend (McFall, Missouri)



















Click
here: February 2, 2006 Rainbow at Elam Bend (McFall, Missouri)

Re: [TruthTalk] Thinking..............


Began drinking heavily
Used my parent's influence to squeeze into Yale
Party, party, party
Used more parental influence to get into big oil
Got wealthy, got out before the collapse
Yet more influence to wangle my way into baseball
Noticed that I could no long think
Switched to the Republican party
the rest is history

You're incredulous?   Watch Jon Stewart, Jay Leno and David Letterman's 
clips of me. Nuff said
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: March 23, 2006 09:09
Subject: [TruthTalk] Thinking..





  Subject: FW: Thinking..
 
  It started out innocently enough.
 
  I began to think at parties now and then -- to loosen up.
  Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I
  was more than just a social thinker.
 
  I began to think alone -- to relax, I told myself -- but I
  knew it wasn't true.  Thinking became more and more
  important to me, and finally I was thinking all the time.
  That was when things began to sour at home.
 
  One evening I had turned off the TV and asked my wife about
  the meaning of life.  She spent that night at her mother's.
 
  I began to think on the job.  I knew that thinking and
  employment don't mix, but I couldn't stop myself.  I began
  to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau and
  Kafka.  I would return to the office dizzied and confused,
  asking, What is it exactly we are doing here?
 
  One day the boss called me in.  He said, Listen, I like
  you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has
  become a real problem.  If you don't stop thinking on the
  job, you'll have to find another job.
 
  This gave me a lot to think about.  I came home early after
  my conversation with the boss.
 
  Honey, I confessed, I've been thinking...  I know
  you've been thinking, she said, and I want a divorce!
 
  But Honey, surely it's not that serious.  It is serious,
  she said, lower lip aquiver.  You think as much as college
  professors, and college professors don't make any money, so
  if you keep on thinking, we won't have any money!
 
  That's a faulty syllogism, I said impatiently.
 
  She exploded in tears of rage and frustration, but I was in
  no mood to deal with the emotional drama.  I'm going to
  the library, I snarled as I stomped out the door.  I
  headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche.
 
  I roared into the parking lot with NPR on the radio and ran
  up to the big glass doors...  They didn't open!  The
  library was closed!
 
  To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out
  for me that night.  Leaning on the unfeeling glass,
  whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye.
  Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life? it asked.
 
  You probably recognize that line.  It comes from the
  standard Thinker's Anonymous poster.  Which is why I am
  what I am today: a recovering thinker.
 
  I never miss a TA meeting.  At each meeting we watch a
  non-educational video; last week it was Porky's. Then we
  share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the
  last meeting.
 
  I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home.
  Life just seemed...easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped
  thinking.
 
  I think the road to recovery is nearly complete for me.
 
  Today, I registered to vote as a Democrat.
 
 
 





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


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Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism


With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place "creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below. Amen. 

And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, at the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side.  Scary. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your honor.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system  I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd



From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful or true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 
WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ???

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. 

jd



-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 
 education without it being coopted by the fundies 
 -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame 
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
 to introduce the Creator to others. 
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.

David Miller





Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

'helter skelter' h? Perhaps 
appropriate.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 23, 2006 10:06
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism

  With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place 
  "creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below. 
  Amen. 

  And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring 
  hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run 
  helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, at 
  the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side. 
   Scary. 

  jd

  -- 
Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

There are as many 'species' of creationists as 
fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up 
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your 
honor.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism

  Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
  JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
  evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
  "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
  this level of proof has not been achieved 
  includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
  abandoned
  Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
  scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
  would you want to warp young minds with useless 
  information that is not proven? judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
  systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
  Amazing

  Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
  major school system  I am 
  sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you 
  would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the 
  slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be 
  happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT 
  SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd

  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything 
and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful 
or true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 

  WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
  -- HUH ???

  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the whole 
church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What 
does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I 
  do. I know this -- 
  there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
  upon by the whole church. 

  jd

  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary 
process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the 
schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a 
fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 

ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being 
facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests 
God 
 is somehow in control as the 
Creator(?) If this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 

 education without it being coopted by the 
fundies

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

2006-03-23 Thread ttxpress




(he needsto be absolute 
onwhat he's 'high-fiving', Bro:)


On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 03:27:27 -0800 (PST) 
Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

||

jd/*g:


  
  
  "Believe in God's word" is * [typical techno legalistic..] code 
  for * " * [we're all damned 
  goin' t'hell fer not] believe[ing] as [they tell 
  usto]."
  
  They make it sound as if they have* 
  [conquered the intellect with 
  truth].. and it turns out , they *[sense neither God's heart nor 
  mind]..

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism






On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:29:33 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You 
  are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big 
  banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In 
  fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time 
  for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean 
  evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who 
  digresses.
  
  "Let there be" is hardly an evolvement. Who is it who 
  was laughing at me for believing it even took one whole day
  Wasn't that you JD?
  
  My point? If the church had not surrendered its college 
  ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need 
  this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our 
  senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that 
  WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB 
  -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD 
  --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the 
  lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time 
  preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of 
  benevolent blessings to others. jd 
  
  Check the gospels again JD. Jesus always taught 
  before he ministered and this is the example left to us.
  If you are ministering as the oracles of God, rather 
  than your own opinion and he is blessing your words,
  then you should also have signs following just as He 
  did.
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? 
As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
"harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved includes 
the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless 
information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
major school system  I am 
sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you 
would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the 
slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be 
happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT 
SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd



From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
  religious ppl have many
  and varied points of view about anything and 
  everything and this is no
  measure by which to gauge what is needful or 
  true.
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 

WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
-- HUH ???

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  So?
  There isn't a single view of the whole 
  church that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. What 
  does that prove? judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. 
I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
upon by the whole church. 

jd



-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary 
  process, 
   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
  
   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious 
  on purpose.
  
  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests 
  God 
   is somehow in control as the Creator(?)

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism





Know what Lance? Nothing earthshaking 
coming from that direction.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:33:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Oh, I guess he does KNOW, Judy.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: March 23, 2006 08:29
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
on Creationism

What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? 
You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a 
"big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient 
family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there 
has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's 
wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not 
exist. But, now, it is I who digresses.

My point? If the church had not surrendered its college 
ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not 
need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and 
our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving 
that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB 
-- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD 
--- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the 
lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time 
preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of 
benevolent blessings to others. 

jd 

-- 
  Original message -- From: Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
  JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
  evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
  "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
  this level of proof has not been achieved 
  includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
  abandoned
  Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
  scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
  would you want to warp young minds with useless 
  information that is not proven? judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  

  I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
  systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
  Amazing
  
  Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
  major school system  I am 
  sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you 
  would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the 
  slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be 
  happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT 
  SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd
  
  
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything 
and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful 
or true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 
  
  WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
  -- HUH ???
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the whole 
church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What 
does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I 
  do. I know this -- 
  there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
  upon by the whole church. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary 
process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the 
schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a 
fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 

ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being 
facetious on purpose.

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




Lance 
wrote:
 There are as many 'species' of 
creationists as fish.

The same can be said for evolutionists. So what is your point? 


David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:02 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  There are as many 'species' of creationists as 
  fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up 
  with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your 
  honor.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
Creationism

Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? 
As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
"harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved includes 
the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless 
information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
major school system  I am 
sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you 
would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the 
slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be 
happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT 
SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd



From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
  religious ppl have many
  and varied points of view about anything and 
  everything and this is no
  measure by which to gauge what is needful or 
  true.
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 

WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
-- HUH ???

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  So?
  There isn't a single view of the whole 
  church that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. What 
  does that prove? judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. 
I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
upon by the whole church. 

jd



-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary 
  process, 
   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
  
   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious 
  on purpose.
  
  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests 
  God 
   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) 
  If this 
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the 
  fundies 
   -- go for it. But I doubt that it 
  can. What a shame 
   that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom 
  forces 
   the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful 
  opportunity 
   to introduce the Creator to others. 
  In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
  notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be 
  forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies 
  like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing 
  this.
  
  David Miller

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




Homer Simpson, while attempting to steal a candy 
bar from a vending machine, got his arm stuck. He dragged that one over to 
another for a second attempt thus getting both arms securely locked in. Somehow, 
with his nose, he managed to dial 911 for assistance. The operator asked Homer 
'Are each of your hands wrapped around candy bars?' Homer replied, 'your point 
being?'

David: You sound a little like Homer in your 
reply.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 10:59
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  Lance 
  wrote:
   There are as many 'species' of 
  creationists as fish.
  
  The same can be said for evolutionists. So what is your 
  point? 
  
  David Miller
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:02 
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
Creationism

There are as many 'species' of creationists as 
fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up 
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your 
honor.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
  JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
  evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
  "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
  this level of proof has not been achieved 
  includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
  abandoned
  Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
  scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
  would you want to warp young minds with useless 
  information that is not proven? judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  

  I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
  systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
  Amazing
  
  Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
  major school system  I am 
  sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you 
  would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the 
  slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be 
  happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT 
  SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd
  
  
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything 
and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful 
or true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 
  
  WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
  -- HUH ???
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the whole 
church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What 
does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I 
  do. I know this -- 
  there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
  upon by the whole church. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary 
process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the 
schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a 
fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 

ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being 
facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests 
God 
 is somehow in control as the

RE: [TruthTalk] on Creationism









And they are just as fishy. iz











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
 Miller
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
10:00 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism







Lance wrote:





 There are as many 'species' of
creationists as fish.











The same can be said for evolutionists. So what is your
point? 











David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: Lance Muir






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 7:02 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism











There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a
million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your
honor.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
06:44





Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism











Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD? As has already been noted Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with harmonizing evolutionism with theism. Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven? judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing











Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system  I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to
worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe.
but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE
TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd























From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



I surmised as much JD; my point being
that religious ppl have many





and varied points of view about anything
and everything and this is no





measure by which to gauge what is
needful or true.











On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 





WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM --
HUH ???












From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



So?





There isn't a single view of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either. What
does that prove? judyt











On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know
this -- 





there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the
whole church. 











jd























-- Original message -- 
From: David Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:





 The world in which we live would reject 





 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 





 IMO. But creationism in the schools?
Could 





 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 





 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 





ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose.











John wrote:





 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 





 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 





 could be presented into the secular system of 





 education without it being coopted by the fundies 





 -- go for it. But I doubt that it can.
What a shame 





 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 





 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 





 to introduce the Creator to others. 





In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are
notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden
inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of
Canterbury who are doing this.











David Miller









































Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

I enjoyed, and shared, both of your posts earlier 
today. I probably shan't be sharing this one.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 23, 2006 13:40
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism

  And they are just as 
  fishy. iz

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David MillerSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:00 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism

  Lance 
  wrote:

   There are as 
  many 'species' of creationists as fish.

  The same can be said for evolutionists. So what 
  is your point? 

  David 
  Miller

- Original Message - 

From: Lance 
Muir 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: 
Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:02 AM

Subject: Re: 
[TruthTalk] on Creationism

There are as many 'species' of 
creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and 
they'd come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my 
case your honor.

  - Original Message - 

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 

  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 
  23, 2006 06:44

  Subject: 
  [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

  Why advocate teaching what you 
  don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we 
  prove

  evolution do we need to concern 
  ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence 
  that

  this level of proof has not been 
  achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
  abandoned

  Darwinism because they became 
  convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So 
  why

  would you want to warp young minds 
  with useless information that is not proven? 
  judyt

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  I'm talking about fundy creationist versions 
  in the school systemsand you are talking about religious 
  people!!! Amazing

  Maybe we should install a different 
  creationist version for every major school system 
   I am sure we can find enough fundy 
  ideas to go around. That way , you would have to 
  worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea 
  what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS 
  BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE 
  !! jd

From: Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as 
much JD; my point being that religious ppl have 
many

and varied 
points of view about anything and everything and this is 
no

measure by 
which to gauge what is needful or 
true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Do you even know what this thread is 
  about, Judy? 

  WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE 
  CIRRICULUM -- HUH 
  ???

From: Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?

There isn't 
a single view of the whole church that is agreed 
upon

by the 
whole church either. What does that prove? 
judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Perhaps the Bishop has the same 
  concerns I do. I know this -- 

  there isn't a single view of 
  creationism that is agreed upon by the whole 
  church. 

  jd

-- Original message 
-- From: "David 
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

John 
wrote:

 The

RE: [TruthTalk] on Creationism









Darn. J











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
12:46 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism







I enjoyed, and shared, both of your posts earlier today. I
probably shan't be sharing this one.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
13:40





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism









And they are just as fishy. iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
10:00 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism







Lance wrote:





 There are as many 'species' of
creationists as fish.











The same can be said for evolutionists. So what is your
point? 











David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: Lance Muir






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 7:02 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism











There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a
million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your
honor.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
06:44





Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism











Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD? As has already been noted Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with harmonizing evolutionism with theism. Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven? judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing











Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system  I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout
consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but
you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE
TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd























From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



I surmised as much JD; my point being
that religious ppl have many





and varied points of view about anything
and everything and this is no





measure by which to gauge what is
needful or true.











On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 





WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM --
HUH ???












From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



So?





There isn't a single view of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either. What
does that prove? judyt











On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know
this -- 





there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the
whole church. 











jd























-- Original message -- 
From: David Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:





 The world in which we live would reject 





 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 





 IMO. But creationism in the schools?
Could 





 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 





 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 





ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose.











John wrote:





 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 





 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 





 could be presented into the secular system of 





 education without it being coopted by the fundies 





 -- go for it. But I doubt that it can.
What a shame 





 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 





 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 





 to introduce the Creator to others. 





In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are
notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden
inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of
Canterbury who are doing this.











David Miller









































Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




You remind me, Lance, of another show... Back to the Future, where Biff is 
hitting Marty McFly on the head, "Hello, Hello, Anybody Home? Think, 
McFly, Think."

To further elucidate my point:having numerous creationist 
models of origins is not a reason to exclude them from our educational 
system. There are numerous models of evolution as well. The premise 
by which you think you can rest your case is ratherelusive.

David Miller


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:09 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  Homer Simpson, while attempting to steal a candy 
  bar from a vending machine, got his arm stuck. He dragged that one over to 
  another for a second attempt thus getting both arms securely locked in. 
  Somehow, with his nose, he managed to dial 911 for assistance. The operator 
  asked Homer 'Are each of your hands wrapped around candy bars?' Homer replied, 
  'your point being?'
  
  David: You sound a little like Homer in your 
  reply.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
David 
Miller 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: March 23, 2006 10:59
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
Creationism

Lance 
wrote:
 There are as many 'species' 
of creationists as fish.

The same can be said for evolutionists. So what is your 
point? 

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:02 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  There are as many 'species' of creationists 
  as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd 
  come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case 
  your honor.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
on Creationism

Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
"harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved 
includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that 
the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless 
information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


  
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
systemsand you are talking about religious 
people!!! Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for 
every major school system 
 I am sure we can find enough fundy 
ideas to go around. That way , you would have to 
worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea 
what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. 
CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE 
YOU FREE !! jd



From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  I surmised as much JD; my point being 
  that religious ppl have many
  and varied points of view about anything 
  and everything and this is no
  measure by which to gauge what is needful 
  or true.
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Do you even know what this thread is about, 
Judy? 
WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
-- HUH ???

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  So?
  There isn't a single view of the 
  whole church that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. 
  What does that prove? judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I 
do. I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
upon by the whole church. 

jd



--

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




Homer was speaking with a rather buxom country 
singer. Said she to Homer, 'Homer, my eyes are up here.' Homer replied, 'I've 
made my choice.'

You've made your choice about many things, David. 


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 14:06
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  You remind me, Lance, of another show... Back to the Future, where Biff 
  is hitting Marty McFly on the head, "Hello, Hello, Anybody Home? Think, 
  McFly, Think."
  
  To further elucidate my point:having numerous creationist 
  models of origins is not a reason to exclude them from our educational 
  system. There are numerous models of evolution as well. The 
  premise by which you think you can rest your case is 
ratherelusive.
  
  David Miller
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:09 
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
Creationism

Homer Simpson, while attempting to steal a 
candy bar from a vending machine, got his arm stuck. He dragged that one 
over to another for a second attempt thus getting both arms securely locked 
in. Somehow, with his nose, he managed to dial 911 for assistance. The 
operator asked Homer 'Are each of your hands wrapped around candy bars?' 
Homer replied, 'your point being?'

David: You sound a little like Homer in your 
reply.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David 
  Miller 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 10:59
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  Lance 
  wrote:
   There are as many 
  'species' of creationists as fish.
  
  The same can be said for evolutionists. So what is your 
  point? 
  
  David Miller
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:02 
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
Creationism

There are as many 'species' of creationists 
as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd 
come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my 
case your honor.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
  on Creationism
  
  Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
  JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
  evolution do we need to concern ourselves 
  with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence 
  that
  this level of proof has not been achieved 
  includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
  abandoned
  Darwinism because they became convinced that 
  the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
  would you want to warp young minds with 
  useless information that is not proven? judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  
  

  I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
  systemsand you are talking about religious 
  people!!! Amazing
  
  Maybe we should install a different creationist version for 
  every major school system 
   I am sure we can find enough 
  fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to 
  worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea 
  what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. 
  CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE 
  YOU FREE !! jd
  
  
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being 
that religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about 
anything and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is 
needful or true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Do you even know what this thread is about, 
  Judy? 
  WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
  -- HUH ???
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the 
whole

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have destroyed 
any opportunity for creationism in schools. The problem is that the 
scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of a Creator 
departs from science. Lance's position of theistic evolution is flatly 
rejected by science. So the Fundies are not hindering creationism in 
schools. Scientists are. Are you really blind to this fact?

David Miller


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place 
  "creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below. 
  Amen. 
  
  And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring 
  hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run 
  helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, at 
  the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side. 
   Scary. 
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

There are as many 'species' of creationists as 
fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up 
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your 
honor.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
  JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
  evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
  "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
  this level of proof has not been achieved 
  includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
  abandoned
  Darwinism because they became convinced that the 
  scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
  would you want to warp young minds with useless 
  information that is not proven? judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  

  I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
  systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! 
  Amazing
  
  Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every 
  major school system  I am 
  sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you 
  would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the 
  slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be 
  happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT 
  SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd
  
  
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being that 
religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything 
and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful 
or true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 
  
  WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
  -- HUH ???
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the whole 
church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What 
does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I 
  do. I know this -- 
  there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
  upon by the whole church. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary 
process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the 
schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a 
fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 

ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being 
facetious on purpose.

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




David says that 'the scientific establishment 
has...'. Look, David, if the generalization works for you then, OK! I already 
told you that I'd supply the names of real, as opposed to pretend, scientists, 
who are themselves believers (I supplied a couple of names) who hold to a 
variety of positions on this matter. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 14:20
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have 
  destroyed any opportunity for creationism in schools. The problem is 
  that the scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of a 
  Creator departs from science. Lance's position of theistic evolution is 
  flatly rejected by science. So the Fundies are not hindering creationism 
  in schools. Scientists are. Are you really blind to this 
  fact?
  
  David Miller
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
Creationism

With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place 
"creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below. 
Amen. 

And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring 
hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run 
helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, at 
the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side. 
 Scary. 

jd

-- 
  Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  There are as many 'species' of creationists 
  as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd 
  come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case 
  your honor.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
on Creationism

Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with 
"harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved 
includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that 
the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless 
information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


  
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
systemsand you are talking about religious 
people!!! Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for 
every major school system 
 I am sure we can find enough fundy 
ideas to go around. That way , you would have to 
worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea 
what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. 
CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE 
YOU FREE !! jd



From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  I surmised as much JD; my point being 
  that religious ppl have many
  and varied points of view about anything 
  and everything and this is no
  measure by which to gauge what is needful 
  or true.
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Do you even know what this thread is about, 
Judy? 
WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM 
-- HUH ???

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  So?
  There isn't a single view of the 
  whole church that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. 
  What does that prove? judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I 
do. I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
upon by the whole church. 

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

John wrote:
 Believe in God's word is fundy
 code for believe as I do.

After all this time, you still don't understand.  If it is code for 
anything, it is:  line up with my understanding of God's Word here, or show 
me what the true understanding of God's Word is and help me to line up with 
it.

The liberals say, God's Word can interpreted in many different ways so that 
none of us can be sure what it means; therefore, nobody can be dogmatic 
about any particular viewpoint.

John wrote:
 When we have been dispersed, take with
 you the knowledge that not one single Rad
 Fundy has given any of us a clue as to what
 doctrine they are talking about.

I think Kevin is the only fundamentalist left on TT.  He certainly does not 
fit your characterization from my perspective.  He has patiently explained 
what doctrine he is talking about.

John wrote:
 You must obey the commandments  !!!
 they yell  to the others.   What commandments
 ---   love one another,  treat others as you would
 be treated,  do not judge with finality,   strive to
 be as mature as God is?   Do not lust.  Be angry
 and sin not?   Is that it?

 They make it sound as if they have commandments
 no else has  --  and it turns out , they do not.
 Just a big deal over the very same things all of us
 practice.
 Sigh

You should ask yourself why some of us hear a fundamentalist like Kevin and 
say, Amen!, while others hear him and say, Oh My!  If everyone were 
truly all practicing the same thing, we would not hear both of these 
reactions.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith and 
speaking? What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to do 
with how long it took for the world to come into being? I don't understand 
your point.

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:29 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. 
  That A  E were spirit people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or 
  an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that says it took God 144 
  hours to speak words that canbe spoken in 24 seconds 
  !!! I just did it in 24 big ones !! including a 
  drink of water because my mouth was getting dry. 
  
  Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad Fundies cannot agree 
  on much of anything. Which version goes into the school system 
  ??? We are still waiting??
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Don't you get it JT?
TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!
The opinions of Men are the key.Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  So?
  There isn't a single fiew of the whole church 
  that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. What does that 
  prove? judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know 
this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the 
whole church. 

jd



-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
  purpose.
  
  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
  
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the fundies 
  
   -- go for it. But I doubt that it 
  can. What a shame 
   that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 

   the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
   to introduce the Creator to others. 
  In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
  notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden 
  inschools. It is the liberal loonies like 
  thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.
  
  David Miller
  



Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make 
PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David:Limiting our 'case study' to yourself and Judy, please demonstrate 
where either one of you were brought, via Scripture, to a more genuine 
'lining up'. No David, you are fundamentalists!
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 14:29
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

John wrote:

Believe in God's word is fundy
code for believe as I do.

After all this time, you still don't understand.  If it is code for
anything, it is:  line up with my understanding of God's Word here, or 
show
me what the true understanding of God's Word is and help me to line up 
with

it.

The liberals say, God's Word can interpreted in many different ways so 
that

none of us can be sure what it means; therefore, nobody can be dogmatic
about any particular viewpoint.

John wrote:

When we have been dispersed, take with
you the knowledge that not one single Rad
Fundy has given any of us a clue as to what
doctrine they are talking about.

I think Kevin is the only fundamentalist left on TT.  He certainly does 
not

fit your characterization from my perspective.  He has patiently explained
what doctrine he is talking about.

John wrote:

You must obey the commandments  !!!
they yell  to the others.   What commandments
---   love one another,  treat others as you would
be treated,  do not judge with finality,   strive to
be as mature as God is?   Do not lust.  Be angry
and sin not?   Is that it?

They make it sound as if they have commandments
no else has  --  and it turns out , they do not.
Just a big deal over the very same things all of us
practice.
Sigh

You should ask yourself why some of us hear a fundamentalist like Kevin 
and

say, Amen!, while others hear him and say, Oh My!  If everyone were
truly all practicing the same thing, we would not hear both of these
reactions.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




"I don't understand your point." = "Are you mocking 
the concept I do understand?"

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 14:32
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith and 
  speaking? What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to do 
  with how long it took for the world to come into being? I don't 
  understand your point.
  
  David Miller
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:29 
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
on Creationism

So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. 
That A  E were spirit people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 
or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that says it took God 
144 hours to speak words that canbe spoken in 24 seconds 
!!! I just did it in 24 big ones !! including 
a drink of water because my mouth was getting dry. 

Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad Fundies cannot 
agree on much of anything. Which version goes into the school 
system ??? We are still waiting??

jd

-- 
  Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Don't you get it JT?
  TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!
  The opinions of Men are the key.Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

So?
There isn't a single fiew of the whole church 
that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does 
that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know 
  this -- 
  there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by 
  the whole church. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 

 IMO. But creationism in the 
schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 

 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 

 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If 
this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 
 education without it being coopted by the fundies 

 -- go for it. But I doubt that it 
can. What a shame 
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 

 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 

 to introduce the Creator to others. 
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden 
inschools. It is the liberal loonies like 
thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.

David Miller

  
  
  
  Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make 
  PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




Actually, there is some good stuff that comes from ICR too. As I said 
before, they serve a function in our society which I think is good.If I'm 
not too embarrassed to read Lance Muir, I will not be too embarrassed to read 
ICR approved material. :-)

David Miller


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:47 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articlesaction="">
  Polonium Radiohalos: The Model for Their Formation Tested and 
  Verified
  http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articlesaction="">
  
  But being that it is ICR research you may be too embarrassed to read it. 
  ; )
  
  http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=homeaction="">David 
  Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  David 
Miller wrote: Have you read Creation's Tiny Mystery, 
by Robert Gentry?Lance wrote: No, I've not but, what would I 
learn were I to do so, David?I'm glad you 
asked.There are several things you would learn:1. You would 
learn about the evidence for polonium halos indicating that the basement 
rocks of the earth were created rapidly, in minutes, rather than cooling 
over a million years.2. You would see a clear example of how science 
operates by constructing hypotheses and testing those hypotheses, 
falsifying each one.3. You would learn about the bigotry in science 
against publishing articles that suggest a creationist model of 
origins.4. You would learn a little about how a court room judge 
relied upon expert testimony to the exclusion of examining scientific 
evidence.The book is an easy read, and it breaks down the science 
into very simple concepts. It is well worth the read by anyone 
interested in the creation versus evolution controversy.David 
Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned 
with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 
4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from 
this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be 
unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an 
e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
  subscribed.
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




Thanks for that compliment (?), David. BTW, I'm not 
embarrassed to read them either.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 14:39
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  Actually, there is some good stuff that comes from ICR too. As I 
  said before, they serve a function in our society which I think is 
  good.If I'm not too embarrassed to read Lance Muir, I will not be too 
  embarrassed to read ICR approved material. :-)
  
  David Miller
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:47 
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
on Creationism

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articlesaction="">
Polonium Radiohalos: The Model for Their Formation Tested and 
Verified
http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articlesaction="">

But being that it is ICR research you may be too embarrassed to read 
it. ; )

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=homeaction="">David 
Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
David 
  Miller wrote: Have you read Creation's Tiny 
  Mystery, by Robert Gentry?Lance wrote: No, I've not but, 
  what would I learn were I to do so, David?I'm glad you 
  asked.There are several things you would learn:1. You 
  would learn about the evidence for polonium halos indicating that the 
  basement rocks of the earth were created rapidly, in minutes, rather 
  than cooling over a million years.2. You would see a clear 
  example of how science operates by constructing hypotheses and testing 
  those hypotheses, falsifying each one.3. You would learn about the 
  bigotry in science against publishing articles that suggest a 
  creationist model of origins.4. You would learn a little about how 
  a court room judge relied upon expert testimony to the exclusion of 
  examining scientific evidence.The book is an easy read, and it 
  breaks down the science into very simple concepts. It is well worth 
  the read by anyone interested in the creation versus evolution 
  controversy.David Miller--"Let your speech be 
  always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to 
  answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you 
  do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a 
  friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
__Do You 
Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

To believe fundamental Christianity means to accept fundamental tenets of 
Christianity.  To believe fundamentalism means to embrace a sect of 
Christianity which hammers on the fundamentals.  What if that ism sect 
said that only the KJV was inspired, or that believers need to sell all, 
forsake possessions, and live in communes like the early believers did, or 
that anyone who did not speak in tongues and heal the sick were not living 
in the same faith as the early believers?  I could go on and on.  The 
problem with believing in any ism is that if error creeps into the ism 
sect at all, it infects the whole group.  So I prefer the concept of 
believing in fundamental Christianity but not believing in fundamentalism.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Then maybe you can flesh it out for the rest of us.
I am sure Lance can not/will not

I am sure we can see the difference, but just what are the symptoms of that 
particular ISM?

David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Lance wrote:
 Fundamental Christianity is [fine]...
 FundamentalISM ought not be
 believed by anyone.

FWIW: I can appreciate this distinction Lance makes.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David:It's too late in the game to say that which needs be said here re:your 
self-contradictory approach. It may well be another David Miller that I've 
been reading on TT for the last year or two.

Pass.
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 14:47
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

To believe fundamental Christianity means to accept fundamental tenets of
Christianity.  To believe fundamentalism means to embrace a sect of
Christianity which hammers on the fundamentals.  What if that ism sect
said that only the KJV was inspired, or that believers need to sell all,
forsake possessions, and live in communes like the early believers did, or
that anyone who did not speak in tongues and heal the sick were not living
in the same faith as the early believers?  I could go on and on.  The
problem with believing in any ism is that if error creeps into the ism
sect at all, it infects the whole group.  So I prefer the concept of
believing in fundamental Christianity but not believing in fundamentalism.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Then maybe you can flesh it out for the rest of us.
I am sure Lance can not/will not

I am sure we can see the difference, but just what are the symptoms of 
that

particular ISM?

David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Lance wrote:

Fundamental Christianity is [fine]...
FundamentalISM ought not be
believed by anyone.

FWIW: I can appreciate this distinction Lance makes.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Henry Morris




I'm embarrassed about some of the arguments they make. Morris is not 
really a scientist and does not seem to understand the science side very 
well. I've spoken to Morris in person one on one, so my opinion is not 
based solelyupon what I have read from him. ICR operates like a 
religious organization in approving of certain people and disapproving of 
others. This is not to say that everything they do is bad. On the 
contrary, they have made good contributions to the subject. From the 
perspective of science, however, it is a lot of religion to wade through.

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:13 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Henry 
  Morris
  
  I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR group over 
  there. 
  
  What exactly are you embarrassed about?
  
  Henry Morris
  B.S., with honors in civil engineering, Rice University, Houston, TX, 
  1939 
  Hydraulic Engineering
  M.S., University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, 1948 
  Ph.D., University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, 1950 
  LL.D
  Litt.D
  Faculty member at Rice University (1942-46), University of Minnesota 
  (1946-51), University of Southwestern Louisiana (1951-56) and Southern 
  Illinois University (1956-57)
  Former head of the Department of Civil Engineering at the Virginia 
  Polytechnic Institute and State University (1957-1970)
  Author of over 45 books regarding Creation-Evolution
  David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  David 
Miller wrote: I hate it when theologians are 
embarrassed of giving glory to the Creator in 
school.Lance wrote: You do KNOW, do you not David, 
that that's NOT the source of his embarrassment? Rowan 
Williams is not embarrassed concerning our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not 
unlike many, are embarrassed over believers turning 
non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)There is more to this 
issue that this. Is he embarrassed of certain brands of creationism? Of 
course. I am too. I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR 
group over there. At the same time, they serve a purpose in what they 
do, and we should not revolt to them so much that we accept the 
atheistic and scientific agenda of removing all references to the 
Creator from our public schools.You say it is a NON-ISSUE? I 
consider such a statement ignorant in the extreme. Deceptive to the 
core. There is one thing that the ICR group has illustrated, and that is 
that this is an issue.I talked with a student a few months ago, John 
Boyles, just before he was elected to be President of Student Government 
at the University of Florida. I talked with him about the persecution my 
daughter is undergoing at UF just because she believes the Bible that 
homosexual behavior is sinful. He confided to me that he applied for a 
Rhodes scholarship to study theology at Oxford. He was turned down 
because he argued in his oral examination / interview that the idea of 
Intelligent Design should be considered in the classroom. If this was a 
non-issue, these professors of theology would have tolerated his 
creationist convictions. I wish I could convey to you the grief this man 
carried over his own religious persecution by those who would not have 
him study theology because he believed intelligent design theories 
should be considered in school.I truly believe that these modern 
theologians assume that scientists are well studied in origins and are 
deeply convicted about the truth of evolutionary processes and the 
absurdity of the teaching of Genesis. When the truth comes out, they 
will be the ones who will be greatly embarrassed in the day of our Lord. 
The philosopher Thomas Khun was right in how he depicted the way science 
really operates. These theologians who object to Creationist models of 
origins should pay attention to him just a little bit more.David 
Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned 
with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 
4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from 
this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be 
unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an 
e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
  subscribed.
  
  
  Yahoo! 
  Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low 
rates.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Good.  Please write me with a review when you have done so.  I would be 
interested in how a theistic evolutionist would consider this information.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

I will give it a read, David.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 13:44
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

 David Miller wrote:
 Have you read Creation's Tiny
 Mystery, by Robert Gentry?

 Lance wrote:
 No, I've not but, what would I learn
 were I to do so, David?

 I'm glad you asked.

 There are several things you would learn:

 1.  You would learn about the evidence for polonium halos indicating that
 the basement rocks of the earth were created rapidly, in minutes, rather
 than cooling over a million years.

 2.  You would see a clear example of how science operates by constructing
 hypotheses and testing those hypotheses, falsifying each one.

 3.  You would learn about the bigotry in science against publishing
 articles
 that suggest a creationist model of origins.

 4.  You would learn a little about how a court room judge relied upon
 expert
 testimony to the exclusion of examining scientific evidence.

 The book is an easy read, and it breaks down the science into very simple
 concepts.  It is well worth the read by anyone interested in the creation
 versus evolution controversy.

 David Miller

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

I'm not a good communicator, Lance.  I have been convinced of this, and I 
become more convinced the older I get.  I try really hard, but I am 
frequently misunderstood.  Nothing I have tried can cure this.  It is a 
thorn in my side that only grace enables me to endure.  It constantly 
humbles me to realize how bad I am at communicating.

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


I do know this Iz, that my friends and I have puzzled more over David than
anyone on TT over the years. We don't know if he WON'T or CAN'T see.(I opt
for won't.)
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:46
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


 Yes, it's always the fault of the communicator (whenever attempting to
 communicate with you-know-who.) iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:30 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

 It just might be the case that YOU are not as good a communicater as YOU
 believe yourself to be, David. Ah well, David, soon a long rest from TT
 and,

 onto things more important!
 - Original Message - 
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 22, 2006 13:08
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


 Lance wrote:
 As to mantras David, yours 'I have only
 the truth and, all of the truth all of the time
 is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality.

 This is not my mantra.  We have a communication problem here.  I do not
 believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time.
 I
 don't believe that is true about anybody.

 David Miller
 Too tired with being misunderstood to continue...

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know
 how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

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 --
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 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

The CNN report:  Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams 
said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no.

So how have I mischaracterized him?

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE
YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped,
David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe,
Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you
and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes)
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


 Lance wrote:
 If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then
 you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.

 I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be
 separate.  I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted
 unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

 Lance wrote:
 He is a brother in Christ who believes
 differently than you on some matters.
 Now, if that makes him what you say
 then, that makes you what I say.

 He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me.  The moniker
 was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our
 Creator did not belong in schools.  He made an irrational statement,
 assuming that CNN reported him accurately.  If he is a brother in Christ,
 then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other
 believers correct him.  If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will
 continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the
 acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools.  What he said was very
 damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the
 Creator in their study of origins.  To think that science and the
 acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but
 not
 from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland
 Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.

 David Miller

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

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 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh

I talked to Carl once on the telephone.  He was kind enough to return my 
phone call.  The problem is that he made some huge mistakes in regards to 
the Paluxy River beds and it greatly hurt the evidence that might actually 
be there for a recent creation.  The evolutionists were all over his mistake 
and have discounted his entire work because of it.  The jury is still open 
for me on this matter, because I have seen the bias of scientists first 
hand.

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh


DAVEH:   Note to DavidM and other TTers.  For the first time, I just
watched a half hour of Carl Baugh's TBN (Thursday nights) program about
science and the Bible.  How do you folks perceive him?

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


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Re: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, Promises etc




Thank you, Judy, for being perceptive and understanding me.

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:35 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, 
  Promises etc
  
  Then I suggest that those of you who are titillated 
  by this kind of thing take G with you and
  form your own List because this is not only rude it 
  is divisive and sectarian - Oh thou discerner
  of sects  DM does not do this. He 
  works hard to try and communicate with others wherever
  they are at -This is preferring one's 
  brother/sister - in LOVE. An alien concept to some.
  
  On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:26:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
It should be obvious why G does this. 
It is to some of us. 

jd

From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  
  
  

  

  Hey Iz; you and your husband are in the 
  medical field. What do they say about ppl
  who like to dialogue with themselves all 
  the time like this? I note none of these are 
  questions
  they are all answers. What was the 
  question?
  
  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:21:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  

..e.g., "Take a guard..Go, make the tomb as secure 
as you know how" means thatPilate knew, implictly,that he 
never could 'wash his hands' ofJC (who was, 
quiteinterestingly, 
apprehending him)


On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:11:47 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  ..the 
  difference betw her  Pilate is that his language, implicitly, his 
  notion of having 'apprehended'JC, is 
  suspect
  
  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:41:10 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
..in 
her psyche, the writer already knows the notion is 
suspect

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:28:55 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  myth 
  (note the quotes)
  
  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:51:52 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

.. 
apprehend Christ..
||

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism


And who is going to present these competing versions of creation -- the average Joe school teacher ?? Do you have any idea what an antagonist educator would do with such information? Actually, this "creationism in the school" thingy is really starting to sound like a bad idea !! 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

You remind me, Lance, of another show... Back to the Future, where Biff is hitting Marty McFly on the head, "Hello, Hello, Anybody Home? Think, McFly, Think."

To further elucidate my point:having numerous creationist models of origins is not a reason to exclude them from our educational system. There are numerous models of evolution as well. The premise by which you think you can rest your case is ratherelusive.

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

Homer Simpson, while attempting to steal a candy bar from a vending machine, got his arm stuck. He dragged that one over to another for a second attempt thus getting both arms securely locked in. Somehow, with his nose, he managed to dial 911 for assistance. The operator asked Homer 'Are each of your hands wrapped around candy bars?' Homer replied, 'your point being?'

David: You sound a little like Homer in your reply.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: March 23, 2006 10:59
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

Lance wrote:
 There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish.

The same can be said for evolutionists. So what is your point? 

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your honor.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system  I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd



From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful or true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 
WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ???

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. 

jd



-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 
 education without it being coopted by the fundies 
 -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame 
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
 to introduce the Creator to others. 
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism


Daivd, I have several books on my shelves written by Christian scientists proclaiming some version of theistic evolution.

Secondly,you and are both members of the fundamentalist community. If you have missed the M.O. of any number of our brethren, I haven't.  

Look at Pat Robertson. A Dufus of major proportions. He has his foot in his mouth so often they now measure that cavity in terms of shoe size !!

The cause of Christ would becomeeven more difficult if we allowed this to happen.  At least the way it is now, we (the Christian community) can somewhat hide these guys from society. The KKK was made up of mostly Christian claiming people. 

Can you imagine? "OK, students,we have just completedour study on evolution from a scientific point of view. Now , we enter into the Christian notion of creation -- or should I say the several versions of same !! (and the teacher smiles.) We only had space in the text book for five such theories. I personally do not believe any of them -- and I need to make that clear to you before "they" pass some law that says I cannot influence your thinking with such a statement -- but I will do the best I can.Before I begin, how many of you care about any of this... show of hands, please . I said "show of " . oh, I get get it. Well , we have to consider each of these accounts of creation, anyway, and there will be a test. I must say, it seems a bit odd for me. I mean, I wil
l be making a presentation of a biblical nature, but , of course, we are not permitted to present from the Bible -- so I really do not know why this is not being done in church .. but here goes ..."


jd



-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have destroyed any opportunity for creationism in schools. The problem is that the scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of a Creator departs from science. Lance's position of theistic evolution is flatly rejected by science. So the Fundies are not hindering creationism in schools. Scientists are. Are you really blind to this fact?

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place "creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below. Amen. 

And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, at the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side.  Scary. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your honor.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system  I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd



From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful or true.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? 
WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ???

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

So?
There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this --

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

David:You articulate well. You apprehend, IMO, less well. You write like a 
'neat freak'.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 14:58
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

I'm not a good communicator, Lance.  I have been convinced of this, and I
become more convinced the older I get.  I try really hard, but I am
frequently misunderstood.  Nothing I have tried can cure this.  It is a
thorn in my side that only grace enables me to endure.  It constantly
humbles me to realize how bad I am at communicating.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

I do know this Iz, that my friends and I have puzzled more over David than
anyone on TT over the years. We don't know if he WON'T or CAN'T see.(I opt
for won't.)
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:46
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Yes, it's always the fault of the communicator (whenever attempting to
communicate with you-know-who.) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:30 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

It just might be the case that YOU are not as good a communicater as YOU
believe yourself to be, David. Ah well, David, soon a long rest from TT
and,

onto things more important!
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 13:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Lance wrote:

As to mantras David, yours 'I have only
the truth and, all of the truth all of the time
is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality.

This is not my mantra.  We have a communication problem here.  I do not
believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time.
I
don't believe that is true about anybody.

David Miller
Too tired with being misunderstood to continue...

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
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know

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http://www.InnGlory.org

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http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, 
I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools 
either.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

The CNN report:  Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, 
Williams

said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no.

So how have I mischaracterized him?

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE
YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped,
David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe,
Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you
and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple 
yikes)
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Lance wrote:

If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then
you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.

I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be
separate.  I am not sectarian within the group of those who have 
submitted

unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Lance wrote:

He is a brother in Christ who believes
differently than you on some matters.
Now, if that makes him what you say
then, that makes you what I say.

He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me.  The moniker
was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our
Creator did not belong in schools.  He made an irrational statement,
assuming that CNN reported him accurately.  If he is a brother in Christ,
then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other
believers correct him.  If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will
continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the
acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools.  What he said was 
very

damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the
Creator in their study of origins.  To think that science and the
acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but
not
from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor 
Rowland

Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
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know

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Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh

David:Would you apply the word 'bias' equally to yourself and, to Judy with 
the same force?
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 15:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh

I talked to Carl once on the telephone.  He was kind enough to return my
phone call.  The problem is that he made some huge mistakes in regards to
the Paluxy River beds and it greatly hurt the evidence that might actually
be there for a recent creation.  The evolutionists were all over his 
mistake

and have discounted his entire work because of it.  The jury is still open
for me on this matter, because I have seen the bias of scientists first
hand.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh

DAVEH:   Note to DavidM and other TTers.  For the first time, I just
watched a half hour of Carl Baugh's TBN (Thursday nights) program about
science and the Bible.  How do you folks perceive him?

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

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know

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Re: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, Promises etc

David:Are you that insecure?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 

  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 23, 2006 15:09
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, 
  Promises etc

  Thank you, Judy, for being perceptive and understanding me.

  David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:35 
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, 
Promises etc

Then I suggest that those of you who are titillated 
by this kind of thing take G with you and
form your own List because this is not only rude it 
is divisive and sectarian - Oh thou discerner
of sects  DM does not do this. He 
works hard to try and communicate with others wherever
they are at -This is preferring one's 
brother/sister - in LOVE. An alien concept to some.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:26:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  It should be obvious why G does this. 
  It is to some of us. 

  jd

  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Hey Iz; you and your husband are in the 
medical field. What do they say about ppl
who like to dialogue with themselves 
all the time like this? I note none of these are 
questions
they are all answers. What was 
the question?

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:21:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  ..e.g., "Take a guard..Go, make the tomb as 
  secure as you know how" means thatPilate knew, 
  implictly,that he never could 'wash his hands' 
  ofJC (who was, quiteinterestingly, apprehending 
  him)

  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:11:47 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

..the 
difference betw her  Pilate is that his language, implicitly, 
his notion of having 'apprehended'JC, is 
suspect

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:41:10 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  ..in 
  her psyche, the writer already knows the notion is 
  suspect

  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:28:55 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

myth (note the quotes)

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:51:52 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  .. 
  apprehend Christ..
  ||

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


David !! Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you have ever written. First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. 

Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually speak) is rather simple -- you have somehow lost the context of my statement. My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24 hour period. To say that it is metaphorical doesnot mean that God did not create the world and even in the sequence depicted -- at least not to me. Such an admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be "scientific" as we understand that term , today. Look -- do you really believe that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!?? And "rest up " for what? Com'on David, this is impossible. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith and speaking? What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to do with how long it took for the world to come into being? I don't understand your point.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. That A  E were spirit people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that says it took God 144 hours to speak words that canbe spoken in 24 seconds !!! I just did it in 24 big ones !! including a drink of water because my mouth was getting dry. 

Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad Fundies cannot agree on much of anything. Which version goes into the school system ??? We are still waiting??

jd

-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Don't you get it JT?
TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!
The opinions of Men are the key.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


So?
There isn't a single fiew of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. 

jd



-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 
 education without it being coopted by the fundies 
 -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame 
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
 to introduce the Creator to others. 
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.

David Miller




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Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

You funny guy, you! Point well made, 
Homer..

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 23, 2006 16:20
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism

  Daivd, I have several books on my shelves written by 
  Christian scientists proclaiming some version of theistic 
  evolution.

  Secondly,you and are both members of the fundamentalist 
  community. If you have missed the M.O. of any number of our 
  brethren, I haven't.  

  Look at Pat Robertson. A Dufus of major proportions. He 
  has his foot in his mouth so often they now measure that cavity in 
  terms of shoe size !!

  The cause of Christ would becomeeven more difficult if 
  we allowed this to happen.  At least the way it 
  is now, we (the Christian community) can somewhat hide these guys from 
  society. The KKK was made up of mostly Christian 
  claiming people. 

  Can you imagine? "OK, students,we have just 
  completedour study on evolution from a scientific point of 
  view. Now , we enter into the Christian notion of creation 
  -- or should I say the several versions of same !! (and the 
  teacher smiles.) We only had space in the text book for five such 
  theories. I personally do not believe any of them -- and I 
  need to make that clear to you before "they" pass some law that says I 
  cannot influence your thinking with such a statement -- but I will 
  do the best I can.Before I begin, how many of you care 
  about any of this... show of hands, 
  please . I said "show of " 
  . oh, I get get it. Well , we have to consider each of 
  these accounts of creation, anyway, and there will be a 
  test. I must say, it seems a bit odd for me. I mean, I wil l 
  be making a presentation of a biblical nature, but , of course, we 
  are not permitted to present from the Bible -- so I really do not 
  know why this is not being done in church .. but here 
  goes ..."

  jd

  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have 
destroyed any opportunity for creationism in schools. The problem is 
that the scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of 
a Creator departs from science. Lance's position of theistic evolution 
is flatly rejected by science. So the Fundies are not hindering 
creationism in schools. Scientists are. Are you really blind to 
this fact?

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism

  With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place 
  "creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below. 
  Amen. 

  And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring 
  hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run 
  helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, 
  at the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side. 
   Scary. 

  jd

  -- 
Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

There are as many 'species' of creationists 
as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd 
come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my 
case your honor.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
  on Creationism

  Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
  JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
  evolution do we need to concern ourselves 
  with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence 
  that
  this level of proof has not been achieved 
  includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
  abandoned
  Darwinism because they became convinced that 
  the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
  would you want to warp young minds with 
  useless information that is not proven? judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
  systemsand you are talking about religious 
  people!!! Amazing

  Maybe we should install a different creationist version for

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

You have risen to new heights, soon to be appointed 
ARCHbishop, John.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 23, 2006 16:36
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism

  David !! Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you have 
  ever written. First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. 

  Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of time 
  to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually speak) is 
  rather simple -- you have somehow lost the context of my 
  statement. My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24 hour 
  period. To say that it is metaphorical doesnot 
  mean that God did not create the world and even in the sequence 
  depicted -- at least not to me. Such an admission , on 
  my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be "scientific" 
  as we understand that term , today. Look -- do you 
  really believe that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he needed 
  a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!?? And "rest up " for 
  what? Com'on David, this is impossible. 

  jd

  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith 
and speaking? What does how long it takes for him to speak words have 
to do with how long it took for the world to come into being? I don't 
understand your point.

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:29 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
  on Creationism

  So which fundamentalist version of creation do you 
  support. That A  E were spirit people. A 6000 year 
  date or a 10,000 or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that 
  says it took God 144 hours to speak words that canbe 
  spoken in 24 seconds !!! I just did it in 24 big 
  ones !! including a drink of water because my mouth was 
  getting dry. 

  Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad Fundies cannot 
  agree on much of anything. Which version goes into the school 
  system ??? We are still waiting??

  jd

  -- 
Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Don't you get it JT?
TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!
The opinions of Men are the key.Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  So?
  There isn't a single fiew of the whole church 
  that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. What does 
  that prove? judyt

  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I 
know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by 
the whole church. 

jd

-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 

   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 

   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
  purpose.

  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 

   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If 
  this 
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the fundies 

   -- go for it. But I doubt that it 
  can. What a shame 
   that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 

   the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 

   to introduce the Creator to others. 
  In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
  notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be 
  forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like 
  thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.

  David Miller

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make 
PC-to-Phone Calls to

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




Supply all the names of real scientists that you like, Lance. It does 
not change the facts about the position of the scientific establishment. 
I'm talking about organizations like theNational Academy of 
Sciences. They make a big legal case concerning howcreation science 
is religion and therefore it is ILLEGAL to teach it in public schools. Any 
mention of a Creator makes it RELIGION instead of SCIENCE. Their position 
is that science and religion occupytwo separate realms of human 
experience. They accept the fact thatmany scientists are deeply 
religious, but they insist that the two cannot be combined. 
Therefore,any mention of a Creator in science is forbidden. 

I reject the notion that science and religion do not overlap.

By the way, the NAS also makes bigmention of how most religious 
groups have concluded that evolution is not at odds with their descriptions of 
creation and human origins. In other words,the scientific 
establishmentloves guys like R. Williams who help them keep the 
acknowledgement of God out of the classroom.

David Miller


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:30 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  David says that 'the scientific establishment 
  has...'. Look, David, if the generalization works for you then, OK! I already 
  told you that I'd supply the names of real, as opposed to pretend, scientists, 
  who are themselves believers (I supplied a couple of names) who hold to a 
  variety of positions on this matter. 
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
David 
Miller 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: March 23, 2006 14:20
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
Creationism

I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have 
destroyed any opportunity for creationism in schools. The problem is 
that the scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of 
a Creator departs from science. Lance's position of theistic evolution 
is flatly rejected by science. So the Fundies are not hindering 
creationism in schools. Scientists are. Are you really blind to 
this fact?

David Miller


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place 
  "creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below. 
  Amen. 
  
  And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring 
  hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run 
  helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, 
  at the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side. 
   Scary. 
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

There are as many 'species' of creationists 
as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd 
come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my 
case your honor.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
  on Creationism
  
  Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
  JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
  evolution do we need to concern ourselves 
  with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence 
  that
  this level of proof has not been achieved 
  includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
  abandoned
  Darwinism because they became convinced that 
  the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why
  would you want to warp young minds with 
  useless information that is not proven? judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  
  

  I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
  systemsand you are talking about religious 
  people!!! Amazing
  
  Maybe we should install a different creationist version for 
  every major school system 
   I am sure we can find enough 
  fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to 
  worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea 
  what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. 
  CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE 
  YOU FREE !! jd

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


Well  gosh . thank you !!
I am out of the office for awhile -- but it trulyhas been fun !!

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

You have risen to new heights, soon to be appointed ARCHbishop, John.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: March 23, 2006 16:36
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David !! Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you have ever written. First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. 

Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually speak) is rather simple -- you have somehow lost the context of my statement. My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24 hour period. To say that it is metaphorical doesnot mean that God did not create the world and even in the sequence depicted -- at least not to me. Such an admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be "scientific" as we understand that term , today. Look -- do you really believe that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!?? And "rest up " for what? Com'on David, this is impossible. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith and speaking? What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to do with how long it took for the world to come into being? I don't understand your point.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. That A  E were spirit people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that says it took God 144 hours to speak words that canbe spoken in 24 seconds !!! I just did it in 24 big ones !! including a drink of water because my mouth was getting dry. 

Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad Fundies cannot agree on much of anything. Which version goes into the school system ??? We are still waiting??

jd

-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Don't you get it JT?
TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!
The opinions of Men are the key.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


So?
There isn't a single fiew of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. 

jd



-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 
 education without it being coopted by the fundies 
 -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame 
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
 to introduce the Creator to others. 
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.

David Miller




Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




Let the teacher decide what is relevant. They don't teach all the 
competing ideas of evolution either, so what is the problem? The problem 
of censorship should concern you because the truth is not afraid of 
evidence. You should be concerned whenever one side uses legal maneuvers 
and rhetoric to prevent the other side from being heard.

David Miller


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:50 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  And who is going to present these competing versions of creation 
  -- the average Joe school teacher ?? Do you have any 
  idea what an antagonist educator would do with such 
  information? Actually, this "creationism in the school" 
  thingy is really starting to sound like a bad idea !! 
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

You remind me, Lance, of another show... Back to the Future, where Biff 
is hitting Marty McFly on the head, "Hello, Hello, Anybody Home? 
Think, McFly, Think."

To further elucidate my point:having numerous creationist 
models of origins is not a reason to exclude them from our educational 
system. There are numerous models of evolution as well. The 
premise by which you think you can rest your case is 
ratherelusive.

David Miller


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:09 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  Homer Simpson, while attempting to steal a 
  candy bar from a vending machine, got his arm stuck. He dragged that one 
  over to another for a second attempt thus getting both arms securely 
  locked in. Somehow, with his nose, he managed to dial 911 for assistance. 
  The operator asked Homer 'Are each of your hands wrapped around candy 
  bars?' Homer replied, 'your point being?'
  
  David: You sound a little like Homer in your 
  reply.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
David 
Miller 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: March 23, 2006 10:59
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
Creationism

Lance 
wrote:
 There are as many 
'species' of creationists as fish.

The same can be said for evolutionists. So what is your 
point? 

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance Muir 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 
  7:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  There are as many 'species' of 
  creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of 
  computers and they'd come up with.well...what they've already come 
  up with. I rest my case your honor.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy Taylor 
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: March 23, 2006 
06:44
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: 
Williams on Creationism

Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves 
with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence 
that
this level of proof has not been achieved 
includes the long list of scientists and others who have 
abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced 
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So 
why
would you want to warp young minds with 
useless information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


  
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school 
systemsand you are talking about religious 
people!!! Amazing

Maybe we should install a different creationist version for 
every major school system 
 I am sure we can find enough 
fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to 
worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest 
idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. 
CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL 
MAKE YOU FREE !! jd



From: 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism




I know many scientists who are Christians and hold to theistic 
evolution. That does not mean that they bring that view in when they 
practice science. They are not allowed and they will be the first to tell 
you.

I don't see myself as a fundamentalist, but I'm not going to fight with 
those who characterize me as such.

I like Pat Robertson. He is not a dufus from my perspective.

I do not favor the idea of forcing the teaching of creation in 
schools. I am against the notion of forbidding teachers from dealing with 
this subject matter. I'm against theidea of it being illegal to 
teach creationscience in schools.I have known many high school 
teachers that would not have the problem that you outline below.

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:20 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  Daivd, I have several books on my shelves written by 
  Christian scientists proclaiming some version of theistic 
  evolution.
  
  Secondly,you and are both members of the fundamentalist 
  community. If you have missed the M.O. of any number of our 
  brethren, I haven't.  
  
  Look at Pat Robertson. A Dufus of major proportions. He 
  has his foot in his mouth so often they now measure that cavity in 
  terms of shoe size !!
  
  The cause of Christ would becomeeven more difficult if 
  we allowed this to happen.  At least the way it 
  is now, we (the Christian community) can somewhat hide these guys from 
  society. The KKK was made up of mostly Christian 
  claiming people. 
  
  Can you imagine? "OK, students,we have just 
  completedour study on evolution from a scientific point of 
  view. Now , we enter into the Christian notion of creation 
  -- or should I say the several versions of same !! (and the 
  teacher smiles.) We only had space in the text book for five such 
  theories. I personally do not believe any of them -- and I 
  need to make that clear to you before "they" pass some law that says I 
  cannot influence your thinking with such a statement -- but I will 
  do the best I can.Before I begin, how many of you care 
  about any of this... show of hands, 
  please . I said "show of " 
  . oh, I get get it. Well , we have to consider each of 
  these accounts of creation, anyway, and there will be a 
  test. I must say, it seems a bit odd for me. I mean, I wil l 
  be making a presentation of a biblical nature, but , of course, we 
  are not permitted to present from the Bible -- so I really do not 
  know why this is not being done in church .. but here 
  goes ..."
  
  
  jd
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have 
destroyed any opportunity for creationism in schools. The problem is 
that the scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of 
a Creator departs from science. Lance's position of theistic evolution 
is flatly rejected by science. So the Fundies are not hindering 
creationism in schools. Scientists are. Are you really blind to 
this fact?

David Miller


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on 
  Creationism
  
  With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place 
  "creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below. 
  Amen. 
  
  And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring 
  hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run 
  helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, 
  at the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side. 
   Scary. 
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

There are as many 'species' of creationists 
as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd 
come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my 
case your honor.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
  on Creationism
  
  Why advocate teaching what you don't know 
  JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove
  evolution do we need to concern ourselves 
  with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence 
  that

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Interesting.  I think I hear much, much better than I articulate.  In fact, 
I'm sure of it.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

David:You articulate well. You apprehend, IMO, less well. You write like a
'neat freak'.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 14:58
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

 I'm not a good communicator, Lance.  I have been convinced of this, and I
 become more convinced the older I get.  I try really hard, but I am
 frequently misunderstood.  Nothing I have tried can cure this.  It is a
 thorn in my side that only grace enables me to endure.  It constantly
 humbles me to realize how bad I am at communicating.

 David Miller

 - Original Message - 
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

 I do know this Iz, that my friends and I have puzzled more over David than
 anyone on TT over the years. We don't know if he WON'T or CAN'T see.(I opt
 for won't.)
 - Original Message - 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 22, 2006 14:46
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

 Yes, it's always the fault of the communicator (whenever attempting to
 communicate with you-know-who.) iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:30 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

 It just might be the case that YOU are not as good a communicater as YOU
 believe yourself to be, David. Ah well, David, soon a long rest from TT
 and,

 onto things more important!
 - Original Message - 
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 22, 2006 13:08
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

 Lance wrote:
 As to mantras David, yours 'I have only
 the truth and, all of the truth all of the time
 is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality.

 This is not my mantra.  We have a communication problem here.  I do not
 believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time.
 I
 don't believe that is true about anybody.

 David Miller
 Too tired with being misunderstood to continue...

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Do you think it should be illegal to teach in schools, or do you just think 
it is good advice not to mention the Creator in schools?

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then,
I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools
either.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

 The CNN report:  Asked if creationism should be taught in schools,
 Williams
 said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no.

 So how have I mischaracterized him?

 David Miller

 - Original Message - 
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

 David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE
 YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped,
 David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe,
 Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you
 and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple
 yikes)
 - Original Message - 
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

 Lance wrote:
 If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then
 you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.

 I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be
 separate.  I am not sectarian within the group of those who have
 submitted
 unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

 Lance wrote:
 He is a brother in Christ who believes
 differently than you on some matters.
 Now, if that makes him what you say
 then, that makes you what I say.

 He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me.  The moniker
 was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our
 Creator did not belong in schools.  He made an irrational statement,
 assuming that CNN reported him accurately.  If he is a brother in Christ,
 then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other
 believers correct him.  If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will
 continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the
 acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools.  What he said was
 very
 damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the
 Creator in their study of origins.  To think that science and the
 acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but
 not
 from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor
 Rowland
 Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.

 David Miller

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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




I don't know why you are getting so emotional over this.

I think that when God spoke, in many situations, it took some time for what 
he said to take place. For example, if he spoke for the land masses to 
divide from the water, it took less than a minute to say it, but hours for the 
land and water to do what he said.He also may have been involved in 
other ways that we don't understand right now. Do you see it 
differently? It does not have anything to do with resting for the next 
day.

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:36 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  David !! Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you have 
  ever written. First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. 
  
  Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of time 
  to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually speak) is 
  rather simple -- you have somehow lost the context of my 
  statement. My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24 hour 
  period. To say that it is metaphorical doesnot 
  mean that God did not create the world and even in the sequence 
  depicted -- at least not to me. Such an admission , on 
  my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be "scientific" 
  as we understand that term , today. Look -- do you 
  really believe that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he needed 
  a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!?? And "rest up " for 
  what? Com'on David, this is impossible. 
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith 
and speaking? What does how long it takes for him to speak words have 
to do with how long it took for the world to come into being? I don't 
understand your point.

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:29 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
  on Creationism
  
  So which fundamentalist version of creation do you 
  support. That A  E were spirit people. A 6000 year 
  date or a 10,000 or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that 
  says it took God 144 hours to speak words that canbe 
  spoken in 24 seconds !!! I just did it in 24 big 
  ones !! including a drink of water because my mouth was 
  getting dry. 
  
  Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad Fundies cannot 
  agree on much of anything. Which version goes into the school 
  system ??? We are still waiting??
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Don't you get it JT?
TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!
The opinions of Men are the key.Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  So?
  There isn't a single fiew of the whole church 
  that is agreed upon
  by the whole church either. What does 
  that prove? judyt
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I 
know this -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by 
the whole church. 

jd



-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
  
   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
  
   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
  purpose.
  
  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
  
   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If 
  this 
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the fundies 
  
   -- go for it. But I doubt that it 
  can. What a shame 
   that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
  
   the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
  
   to

Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh

Lance wrote:
 Would you apply the word 'bias' equally
 to yourself and, to Judy with the same force?

No, I would not.

I have a bias, but it is not as strong as the bias in place when a person 
has the establishment behind him.  The establishment makes people a little 
lazy in their thinking.  Me, I have to be right if I'm disagreeing with the 
establishment.  They only have to tote the party line, and that reinforces 
their bias.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh


David:Would you apply the word 'bias' equally to yourself and, to Judy with
the same force?
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 15:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh


I talked to Carl once on the telephone.  He was kind enough to return my
 phone call.  The problem is that he made some huge mistakes in regards to
 the Paluxy River beds and it greatly hurt the evidence that might actually
 be there for a recent creation.  The evolutionists were all over his
 mistake
 and have discounted his entire work because of it.  The jury is still open
 for me on this matter, because I have seen the bias of scientists first
 hand.

 David Miller


 - Original Message - 
 From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:31 PM
 Subject: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh


 DAVEH:   Note to DavidM and other TTers.  For the first time, I just
 watched a half hour of Carl Baugh's TBN (Thursday nights) program about
 science and the Bible.  How do you folks perceive him?

 -- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
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 know
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism