Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on my own dime. I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS. It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic. Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway. They even go Pick one better: an IF statement doesn't need an END. They all require one, right, so why not assume it? I love that thinking. Learn some Python. You'll be glad you did. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
So your company hired you to write in Python with no work experience in Python? -Original Message- From: Louie Bergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 12:21 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on my own dime. I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS. It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic. Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway. They even go Pick one better: an IF statement doesn't need an END. They all require one, right, so why not assume it? I love that thinking. Learn some Python. You'll be glad you did. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie Bergsagel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on my own dime. I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS. It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic. Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway. They even go Pick one better: an IF statement doesn't need an END. They all require one, right, so why not assume it? I love that thinking. Learn some Python. You'll be glad you did. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
For a single line. I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's supposed to end. With a semi colon? Horrible. Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines. -Original Message- From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie Bergsagel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on my own dime. I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS. It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic. Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway. They even go Pick one better: an IF statement doesn't need an END. They all require one, right, so why not assume it? I love that thinking. Learn some Python. You'll be glad you did. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
On 09/12/12 17:38, Wjhonson wrote: For a single line. I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's supposed to end. With a semi colon? Horrible. Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines. Why don't you take the OP's advice and learn some Python! I don't know the language but, actually, imho it's pretty obvious how the IF would know :-) Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
If it's multi-line, the compiler doesn't know, and keeps adding code to the ELSE section. DAMHIKT :-) Amen to your last statement! Charlie On 12-09-2012 11:38 AM, Wjhonson wrote: For a single line. I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's supposed to end. With a semi colon? Horrible. Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines. -Original Message- From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie Bergsagel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on my own dime. I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS. It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic. Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway. They even go Pick one better: an IF statement doesn't need an END. They all require one, right, so why not assume it? I love that thinking. Learn some Python. You'll be glad you did. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else syntax that is the one that trips me. Basic If cond Then blah End Else blah End Delphi If cond Then Begin blah; End Else Begin blah; End; VB.NET If cond Then blah Else blah End If .. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome! But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the syntactic vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course which is always horrible. grin Brian Sent from my iPad On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: For a single line. I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's supposed to end. With a semi colon? Horrible. Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines. -Original Message- From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie Bergsagel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on my own dime. I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS. It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic. Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway. They even go Pick one better: an IF statement doesn't need an END. They all require one, right, so why not assume it? I love that thinking. Learn some Python. You'll be glad you did. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
if not(cond) then Jump Label1 cmd1 cmd2 Jump Label2 * Label1: cmd3 cmd4 * Label2: That's all folks I think SMI's RPL has this type of requirement If you mean the IF knows when it ENDS because it hits a JUMP that's not a very nice solution -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 10:06 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else syntax that is the one that trips me. Basic If cond Then blah End Else blah End Delphi If cond Then Begin blah; End Else Begin blah; End; VB.NET If cond Then blah Else blah End If .. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome! But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the syntactic vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course which is always horrible. grin Brian Sent from my iPad On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: For a single line. I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's supposed to end. With a semi colon? Horrible. Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines. -Original Message- From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie Bergsagel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on my own dime. I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS. It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic. Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway. They even go Pick one better: an IF statement doesn't need an END. They all require one, right, so why not assume it? I love that thinking. Learn some Python. You'll be glad you did. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
I don't have time for this Give us all a break -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: 09 December 2012 19:01 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue if not(cond) then Jump Label1 cmd1 cmd2 Jump Label2 * Label1: cmd3 cmd4 * Label2: That's all folks I think SMI's RPL has this type of requirement If you mean the IF knows when it ENDS because it hits a JUMP that's not a very nice solution -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 10:06 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else syntax that is the one that trips me. Basic If cond Then blah End Else blah End Delphi If cond Then Begin blah; End Else Begin blah; End; VB.NET If cond Then blah Else blah End If .. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome! But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the syntactic vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course which is always horrible. grin Brian Sent from my iPad On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: For a single line. I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's supposed to end. With a semi colon? Horrible. Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines. -Original Message- From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie Bergsagel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on my own dime. I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS. It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic. Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway. They even go Pick one better: an IF statement doesn't need an END. They all require one, right, so why not assume it? I love that thinking. Learn some Python. You'll be glad you did. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users Click https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== 1O3VGvZQIqY7TB0O9Dz9j4aDK!jBrZYucwFoPzuIXnePg== to report this email as spam. Epicor Software (UK) is a limited company registered in England Wales. Registration Number: 2338274. Registered Office: 6th Floor, One London Wall, London EC2Y 5EB This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. Any views and/or opinions expressed in this e-mail are of the author only and do not represent the views of Epicor Software (UK) Limited or any other company within its group. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Why are you responding? -Original Message- From: Martin Braid mbr...@epicor.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 11:04 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue I don't have time for this Give us all a break -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: 09 December 2012 19:01 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue if not(cond) then Jump Label1 cmd1 cmd2 Jump Label2 * Label1: cmd3 cmd4 * Label2: That's all folks I think SMI's RPL has this type of requirement If you mean the IF knows when it ENDS because it hits a JUMP that's not a very nice solution -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 10:06 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else syntax that is the one that trips me. Basic If cond Then blah End Else blah End Delphi If cond Then Begin blah; End Else Begin blah; End; VB.NET If cond Then blah Else blah End If .. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome! But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the syntactic vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course which is always horrible. grin Brian Sent from my iPad On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: For a single line. I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's supposed to end. With a semi colon? Horrible. Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines. -Original Message- From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie Bergsagel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on my own dime. I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS. It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic. Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway. They even go Pick one better: an IF statement doesn't need an END. They all require one, right, so why not assume it? I love that thinking. Learn some Python. You'll be glad you did. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users Click https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== 1O3VGvZQIqY7TB0O9Dz9j4aDK!jBrZYucwFoPzuIXnePg== to report this email as spam. Epicor Software (UK) is a limited company registered in England Wales. Registration Number: 2338274. Registered Office: 6th Floor, One London Wall, London EC2Y 5EB This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. Any views and/or opinions expressed in this e-mail are of the author only and do not represent the views of Epicor Software (UK
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
From: Martin Braid I don't have time for this Give us all a break I completely agree. This is nonsense. And for historical accuracy and with some relevance to Pick, RPL did and still does support one or multi-line IF just like every other language on the planet. So please, done already? T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Those of use who *wish* to discuss it can continue, and those who don't want to read it, should stop reading it and whining about being *forced* to read it ;) You aren't. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
So sad. Do you have any hobbies? Other than creating havoc on respectable U2 lists I mean. I can recommend a good psychiatrist. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: 09 December 2012 20:15 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Those of us who *wish* to discuss it can continue, and those who don't want to read it, should stop reading it and whining about being *forced* to read it ;) You aren't. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users Click https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== DcA+CTCYoVqysIEwS6ur!2UDK!jBrZYuczOTml8Ao4xWg== to report this email as spam. Epicor Software (UK) is a limited company registered in England Wales. Registration Number: 2338274. Registered Office: 6th Floor, One London Wall, London EC2Y 5EB This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. Any views and/or opinions expressed in this e-mail are of the author only and do not represent the views of Epicor Software (UK) Limited or any other company within its group. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Let me hold up a mirror to the person who wanted this thread to end. Stop... talking :) seems like a good solution to me -Original Message- From: Martin Braid mbr...@epicor.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 12:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue So sad. Do you have any hobbies? Other than creating havoc on respectable U2 lists I mean. I can recommend a good psychiatrist. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: 09 December 2012 20:15 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Those of us who *wish* to discuss it can continue, and those who don't want to read it, should stop reading it and whining about being *forced* to read it ;) You aren't. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users Click https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== DcA+CTCYoVqysIEwS6ur!2UDK!jBrZYuczOTml8Ao4xWg== to report this email as spam. Epicor Software (UK) is a limited company registered in England Wales. Registration Number: 2338274. Registered Office: 6th Floor, One London Wall, London EC2Y 5EB This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. Any views and/or opinions expressed in this e-mail are of the author only and do not represent the views of Epicor Software (UK) Limited or any other company within its group. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
I do pretty well with a QWERTY keyboard, since I've been using one all my life, starting with an old Underwood typewriter. I don't think I want to try to learn the Dvorak keyboard at this point. I have enough frustrations in my life. :-) Thanks for the tip, though. Actually I did start playing the guitar again after my stroke. I did OK and can strum a little with my right hand, but I certainly won't win any awards. Can you play a guitar with just one hand? Thanks, Charlie On 11-03-2012 5:36 AM, Wols Lists wrote: On 02/11/12 16:31, Charlie Noah wrote: Left handed only, when I used to be right handed? Try and get a left-handed-dvorjak keyboard layout. If you're on windows you should be able to find a key mapping somewhere. It'll then take some getting used to :-) but it should make life easier. I swear by trackballs and ergonomic keyboards, then other people curse when they use my workstation (at one job, I had my ergonomic and an ordinary keyboard plugged in, for people borrowing my desk. I don't think I went as far as trackball plus mouse, though). Another tip, learn to play piano or classical guitar - it'll improve your typing :-) There are a few pieces specially written for left hand (a famous pianist lost his right hand in the Great War). I'm actually right-handed, left-eyed, which means I'm forced to be partially ambidextrous. Cheers, Wol On 11-02-2012 10:54 AM, Wjhonson wrote: Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing Took me from 42 wpm to 78 wpm in two weeks. I'm not kidding ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
On 05/11/12 12:36, Charlie Noah wrote: I do pretty well with a QWERTY keyboard, since I've been using one all my life, starting with an old Underwood typewriter. I don't think I want to try to learn the Dvorak keyboard at this point. I have enough frustrations in my life. :-) Thanks for the tip, though. Actually I did start playing the guitar again after my stroke. I did OK and can strum a little with my right hand, but I certainly won't win any awards. Can you play a guitar with just one hand? I'd probably have major difficulty, but then I'm a classical guitarist - which is why I'm a six-fingered typist. My left hand is fine, but I hunt-n-peck with the first two fingers on my right hand. But if you can strum, and manage the chord changes with the left hand, it should certainly help. How much control do you have with right hand? If you can manage to finger-pick it might help in lots of ways - then again it might not. If you think you can do it, get an easy classical guitar tutor and have a go. Sorry to hear about the stroke though, I've much enjoyed the chatting on the list(s) over the years, and it's not the news one wants to hear. I can understand your frustrations, I'm a carer, and while I'm not looking after someone who's had a stroke it's still easy to see how difficult it is. It's so frustrating to have to teach my wife how to use her laptop - things she knows how to do but doesn't know how to do. She'll know she knew but she doesn't have a clue - and then it just comes back as if it never went! Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
On 02/11/12 16:31, Charlie Noah wrote: Left handed only, when I used to be right handed? Try and get a left-handed-dvorjak keyboard layout. If you're on windows you should be able to find a key mapping somewhere. It'll then take some getting used to :-) but it should make life easier. I swear by trackballs and ergonomic keyboards, then other people curse when they use my workstation (at one job, I had my ergonomic and an ordinary keyboard plugged in, for people borrowing my desk. I don't think I went as far as trackball plus mouse, though). Another tip, learn to play piano or classical guitar - it'll improve your typing :-) There are a few pieces specially written for left hand (a famous pianist lost his right hand in the Great War). I'm actually right-handed, left-eyed, which means I'm forced to be partially ambidextrous. Cheers, Wol On 11-02-2012 10:54 AM, Wjhonson wrote: Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing Took me from 42 wpm to 78 wpm in two weeks. I'm not kidding ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
On 02/11/12 02:49, Bill Haskett wrote: Kind of reminds me of my phone. It's gotten so many functions, that barely work, now I can't even make a simple phone call. So I ditched my Android and went to a pay-as-you-go simple phone. Now I can receive and make calls without any problems. Who'd have thought? :-) :-) I follow Linus on Google+ and there's been a major rant about screen resolution and how laptops (and indeed desktops) are now so lo-res. The typical top-end laptop ten years ago had a screen res about 2000x1280. Now it's pretty much impossible to find anything above 1080! (And no, hi-res does not necessarily equal small. When working close-up at a large screen it often is the difference between readable and unreadable - large HD screens are meant to be viewed at a distance far too far away for sensible working.) Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
There's a comedy radio show I listen to, and a few weeks back they had a 'My New App Does ..' round. One of the contributors said (paraphrased) I've got a brilliant new app! It shows a set of numbers on my display.. and if you press them in the right order .. it sends a message to one of your friends.. And you know what? If they respond - you can even talk to each other! Whoever would have thought of adding that to a phone? Brian -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wols Lists Sent: 02 November 2012 10:57 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue On 02/11/12 02:49, Bill Haskett wrote: Kind of reminds me of my phone. It's gotten so many functions, that barely work, now I can't even make a simple phone call. So I ditched my Android and went to a pay-as-you-go simple phone. Now I can receive and make calls without any problems. Who'd have thought? :-) ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
I'm with you, Bill. My phone makes and receives calls - period. I think you might be able to text on it (remember having to press 3 numbers to get 1 letter?) - but I don't use it. The best part - it costs me $99/year! And no, I don't talk on it while driving. Charlie Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store Home of Safety Net Shipping http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232) On 11-01-2012 9:49 PM, Bill Haskett wrote: Kind of reminds me of my phone. It's gotten so many functions, that barely work, now I can't even make a simple phone call. So I ditched my Android and went to a pay-as-you-go simple phone. Now I can receive and make calls without any problems. Who'd have thought? :-) Bill P.S. Now I'm waiting for the new Thinkpad X1 to get a better docking station and offload my business email to the cloud, where I can securely store and access 10Gb of archived email. Then I'll just walk around with a phone that works and an ultra-thin ultra-fast workstation I can open up and access the internet in a few seconds, to get whatever I need (and be able to read it and interface by typing 70 wpm). Ahhh... - Original Message - *From:* 3xk547...@sneakemail.com *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 11/1/2012 4:25 PM *Subject:* Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue In the mainstream, it's generally understood that one must be in a constant learning cycle, or skills get outdated in a matter of 6-18 months. So .NET people need to understand the difference between WebForms and MVC, and adapt to generics, lambdas, and dynamic types. Java people need to adjust to changes in frameworks, networking, security, and XML parsing. PHP people need to understand competing frameworks as well as balance their server-side skills with JavaScript and related client frameworks. Any browser developer needs to shift with browser changes, now HTML5, CSS3, etc. And some of us need to do all of the above and then some. But what changes in the Pick world? Not much. And how do a lot of Pick people respond to that? By not feeling a need to do anything but R83-compatible BASIC. There are a lot of jobs out there for developers of new UI's for existing MV apps, but few people available who can satisfy the demand. And yet Pick people have had nearly two decades to improve their skills. Every developer here should be qualified for the job associated with this thread, because that ad looks pretty much like any other ad in this industry these days. I'm not trying to paint every Pickie as a dinosaur or a laggard - far from it. I'm just saying there are too many people who still only know BASIC while there have been any number of opportunities to move beyond that. And there are any number of examples of people in the mainstream who are in a constant mode of adaptation to prove that this is not only possible but the established norm. We are where we are in the Pick industry because Pick people generally become complacent in the belief that they are already using the best database in the world, so they don't need to learn anything else. That's just wrong at so many levels. That cripples the industry, making it more difficult for VARs to sell their software and for the DBMS providers to continue investing in this niche market. And let's face it, the additional problem that many here face is that the developer base is now aging, and it's difficult to start from scratch and jump on Mr Toad's Wild Technology Ride. We just can't do that anymore - myself included. What this means is that many people need to recognize their own limitations, and transition their approach to finding employment and consulting gigs. Position as a manager rather than as a programmer. Profile your skills as a problem solver who can get qualified people to write code, rather than competing with a million people who can write code but can't solve real world business problems. Sell your understanding of business rules, because this is an area where you excel compared to all of those people who can write code but have no idea what to write. T From: John Lorentz David Jordan wrote: you have to change the way you get the job interview. Only works if there are jobs available. In Portland, the long list of what people are looking for in skills when hiring does not include Pick (or other varieties). And years of experience in the field plus knowledge of xxx (say, PHP) does not equal five years of experience in PHP specifically using tools x and y in their equation, and you don't get past the initial screening. So I scramble to get what I can. Right now, I'm working QA on a contract and haven't had a chance for a permanent job for seven years now. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Come on Charlie, texting is cool and it is easy. If I want to talk to my son in France for instance, I send him a text to switch on his PC so we can use Skype to actually talk and vice versa. The workshop sending me a text that my bike is ready to be collected - now how cool is that? You're an American and you guys had letters on your phone keys for ages. OK if you would have to remember that B is hitting 2 twice and S is hitting 7 four times I could see your point, but it's really not that difficult when the letters are actually displayed on the keys and you soon get the hang of it. I bought a phone with especially big keys so I can see the letters because my eyes are not what they used to be. ;-) And no, it's not one of those so called smart phones - it cost me just 15£ including bluetooth and camera - and no contract. On 02/11/2012 12:07, Charlie Noah wrote: I'm with you, Bill. My phone makes and receives calls - period. I think you might be able to text on it (remember having to press 3 numbers to get 1 letter?) - but I don't use it. The best part - it costs me $99/year! And no, I don't talk on it while driving. Charlie Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store Home of Safety Net Shipping http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232) ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Just old fashioned, I guess, Mecki. My phone has 12 buttons: 1-0, * and #, and the necessary Send, End, Menu and cursor arrows. That's enough buttons for me. I know what you mean about the eyes not being what they used to be. I've been looking for an easier to read keyboard, maybe with black letters on white or yellow keys. I've tried lighted keys and they never worked very well. The painted (or inked) letters rub off so fast, and I've never mastered touch typing. Having only one hand to type with doesn't help, either. And speaking of being old fashioned, do you know it's almost impossible to get a keyboard with the big, L shaped Enter key and the \ on the top row next to the Backspace key? Getting older by the second, Charlie On 11-02-2012 7:52 AM, Mecki Foerthmann wrote: Come on Charlie, texting is cool and it is easy. If I want to talk to my son in France for instance, I send him a text to switch on his PC so we can use Skype to actually talk and vice versa. The workshop sending me a text that my bike is ready to be collected - now how cool is that? You're an American and you guys had letters on your phone keys for ages. OK if you would have to remember that B is hitting 2 twice and S is hitting 7 four times I could see your point, but it's really not that difficult when the letters are actually displayed on the keys and you soon get the hang of it. I bought a phone with especially big keys so I can see the letters because my eyes are not what they used to be. ;-) And no, it's not one of those so called smart phones - it cost me just 15£ including bluetooth and camera - and no contract. On 02/11/2012 12:07, Charlie Noah wrote: I'm with you, Bill. My phone makes and receives calls - period. I think you might be able to text on it (remember having to press 3 numbers to get 1 letter?) - but I don't use it. The best part - it costs me $99/year! And no, I don't talk on it while driving. Charlie Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store Home of Safety Net Shipping http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232) ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing Took me from 42 wpm to 78 wpm in two weeks. I'm not kidding -Original Message- From: Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 6:07 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Just old fashioned, I guess, Mecki. My phone has 12 buttons: 1-0, * and #, and the necessary Send, End, Menu and cursor arrows. That's enough buttons for me. I know what you mean about the eyes not being what they used to be. I've been looking for an easier to read keyboard, maybe with black letters on white or yellow keys. I've tried lighted keys and they never worked very well. The painted (or inked) letters rub off so fast, and I've never mastered touch typing. Having only one hand to type with doesn't help, either. And speaking of being old fashioned, do you know it's almost impossible to get a keyboard with the big, L shaped Enter key and the \ on the top row next to the Backspace key? Getting older by the second, Charlie On 11-02-2012 7:52 AM, Mecki Foerthmann wrote: Come on Charlie, texting is cool and it is easy. If I want to talk to my son in France for instance, I send him a text to switch on his PC so we can use Skype to actually talk and vice versa. The workshop sending me a text that my bike is ready to be collected - now how cool is that? You're an American and you guys had letters on your phone keys for ages. OK if you would have to remember that B is hitting 2 twice and S is hitting 7 four times I could see your point, but it's really not that difficult when the letters are actually displayed on the keys and you soon get the hang of it. I bought a phone with especially big keys so I can see the letters because my eyes are not what they used to be. ;-) And no, it's not one of those so called smart phones - it cost me just 15£ including bluetooth and camera - and no contract. On 02/11/2012 12:07, Charlie Noah wrote: I'm with you, Bill. My phone makes and receives calls - period. I think you might be able to text on it (remember having to press 3 numbers to get 1 letter?) - but I don't use it. The best part - it costs me $99/year! And no, I don't talk on it while driving. Charlie Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store Home of Safety Net Shipping http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232) ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Left handed only, when I used to be right handed? On 11-02-2012 10:54 AM, Wjhonson wrote: Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing Took me from 42 wpm to 78 wpm in two weeks. I'm not kidding -Original Message- From: Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 6:07 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Just old fashioned, I guess, Mecki. My phone has 12 buttons: 1-0, * and #, and the necessary Send, End, Menu and cursor arrows. That's enough buttons for me. I know what you mean about the eyes not being what they used to be. I've been looking for an easier to read keyboard, maybe with black letters on white or yellow keys. I've tried lighted keys and they never worked very well. The painted (or inked) letters rub off so fast, and I've never mastered touch typing. Having only one hand to type with doesn't help, either. And speaking of being old fashioned, do you know it's almost impossible to get a keyboard with the big, L shaped Enter key and the \ on the top row next to the Backspace key? Getting older by the second, Charlie On 11-02-2012 7:52 AM, Mecki Foerthmann wrote: Come on Charlie, texting is cool and it is easy. If I want to talk to my son in France for instance, I send him a text to switch on his PC so we can use Skype to actually talk and vice versa. The workshop sending me a text that my bike is ready to be collected - now how cool is that? You're an American and you guys had letters on your phone keys for ages. OK if you would have to remember that B is hitting 2 twice and S is hitting 7 four times I could see your point, but it's really not that difficult when the letters are actually displayed on the keys and you soon get the hang of it. I bought a phone with especially big keys so I can see the letters because my eyes are not what they used to be. ;-) And no, it's not one of those so called smart phones - it cost me just 15£ including bluetooth and camera - and no contract. On 02/11/2012 12:07, Charlie Noah wrote: I'm with you, Bill. My phone makes and receives calls - period. I think you might be able to text on it (remember having to press 3 numbers to get 1 letter?) - but I don't use it. The best part - it costs me $99/year! And no, I don't talk on it while driving. Charlie Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store Home of Safety Net Shipping http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232) ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
http://simply.engcen.com/JobAdCareerJet.asp?JobID=1253361 Really don't these people get actual... you know... specs? What did they do skip some words? Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Clearly they meant something like either/or ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
So me a person who wants* to work in RPL, and I'll show you desperate. On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: http://simply.engcen.com/JobAdCareerJet.asp?JobID=1253361 Really don't these people get actual... you know... specs? What did they do skip some words? Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Clearly they meant something like either/or ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
I bet they get a lot of people who are thinking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPL_%28programming_language%29 instead of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realtime_Programming_Language The latter article, by the way, could stand an expert hand to expand it. I only used the language for four months. -Original Message- From: Clifton Oliver w...@oliver.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 8:50 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue So me a person who wants* to work in RPL, and I'll show you desperate. On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: http://simply.engcen.com/JobAdCareerJet.asp?JobID=1253361 Really don't these people get actual... you know... specs? What did they do skip some words? Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Clearly they meant something like either/or ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
I have all of the relevant experience. So what does that say about me? Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com Very experienced U2 programming staff ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
I have experience with Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation and RPL (which was Microdata's very proc-like language). Actually, I have a few more, too. Gonna call me a liar, Will? :-) Charlie Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store Home of Safety Net Shipping http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232) On 11-01-2012 10:46 AM, Wjhonson wrote: http://simply.engcen.com/JobAdCareerJet.asp?JobID=1253361 Really don't these people get actual... you know... specs? What did they do skip some words? Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Clearly they meant something like either/or ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Usually if your experience is more than five years old, employers don't consider it. By the way, I notice that all the people who responded saying they had it, aren't actually looking Can any of you actually write an input and update routine in RPL right now, without consulting a manual? -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 10:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin. Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS... Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
I could pretend to do all of these, but frankly, I've never actually written production RPL code. I've also not written anything in about 2 years in Revelation and that was for Revelation G (really old) so I'm not sure it would count. I think that the RPL is the killer. There are people who have done work on multiple MV platforms who can do all the rest, though if you're not talking Revelation G, then Revelation is different, and you have to have done more than just BASIC coding. Of course, as noted, people with that depth of skill are not generally on the hunt... -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: November-01-12 10:06 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Usually if your experience is more than five years old, employers don't consider it. By the way, I notice that all the people who responded saying they had it, aren't actually looking Can any of you actually write an input and update routine in RPL right now, without consulting a manual? -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 10:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin. Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS... Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
HA! I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a GREAT acronym! They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their naming! David W. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin. Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS... Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
So what does SMILE stand for ? Barry Rogen Senior Programmer/Analyst PNY Technologies, Inc. (973) 560-5327 bro...@pny.com We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems. John W Gardner -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:38 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue HA! I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a GREAT acronym! They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their naming! David W. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin. Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS... Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
well, it WAS the 60's. love in's, etc. On 11/1/2012 10:37 AM, David Wolverton wrote: HA! I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a GREAT acronym! They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their naming! David W. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin. Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS... Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
System Marketing Inc. Language Extender for Generalized (Global?) Information Retrieval Language System -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Barry Rogen Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue So what does SMILE stand for ? Barry Rogen Senior Programmer/Analyst PNY Technologies, Inc. (973) 560-5327 bro...@pny.com We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems. John W Gardner -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:38 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue HA! I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a GREAT acronym! They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their naming! David W. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin. Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS... Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
It was the precursor to RPL. Just as GIRLS was the precursor to PICK. SMI's Language Extender. Brian -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Barry Rogen Sent: 01 November 2012 18:01 To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue So what does SMILE stand for ? Barry Rogen Senior Programmer/Analyst PNY Technologies, Inc. (973) 560-5327 bro...@pny.com We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems. John W Gardner -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:38 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue HA! I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a GREAT acronym! They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their naming! David W. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin. Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS... Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Thanks Barry Rogen Senior Programmer/Analyst PNY Technologies, Inc. (973) 560-5327 bro...@pny.com We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems. John W Gardner -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 2:08 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue System Marketing Inc. Language Extender for Generalized (Global?) Information Retrieval Language System -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Barry Rogen Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue So what does SMILE stand for ? Barry Rogen Senior Programmer/Analyst PNY Technologies, Inc. (973) 560-5327 bro...@pny.com We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems. John W Gardner -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:38 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue HA! I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a GREAT acronym! They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their naming! David W. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin. Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS... Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Not sure where to jump in on this thread so I'll start at the top. First, like Doug Averch, Charlie Noah, Brian Leach, and others here, I actually do have experience with all of the technologies AND applications defined. So once again your commentary has over-reached your limited understanding of the world around you. Heck, if I wanted to close my business and move back to Chicago, I might apply for the position. But I don't. :) Second, I believe this site is looking for someone with some permutation of the described skills, not all of them. They say RPL/D3 are qualifications but U2, etc are a plus, meaning if someone has skills with U2 they're probably trainable. You were correct that they meant either/or ... and they DID say a plus which means it's Not a Requirement. In your eagerness to criticize you missed and/or ignored key words - an oversight which would further disqualify you for the position. Third, RPL is still alive and well, used to run a Lot of large and small shops and for new development. It's only supported now over D3, so again the mention of U2, jBase, Rev, etc is an attempt to find someone who can learn something new. (Rather difficult for some people in this market, easy for others.) Would I start a new project with RPL? No. Do I think it has a long-term future? No. But people have been saying the same thing about Pick in general for a couple decades now. Just remember that the only way some of you could get U2 into a new prospect a few years ago was by slinging around the IBM moniker - now that you don't have that anymore, U2 is as much an anomaly in the mainstream as RPL is among Pick people. Be careful about throwing rocks in this small glass house. T From: Wjhonson http://simply.engcen.com/JobAdCareerJet.asp?JobID=1253361 Really don't these people get actual... you know... specs? What did they do skip some words? Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar Clearly they meant something like either/or ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
I did a lot of RPL coding in the 80s. I remember when I left that job telling them that I would rather slide down a razor blade into a vat of alcohol than write one more line of RPL code. But that's just my opinion. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.net wrote: I could pretend to do all of these, but frankly, I've never actually written production RPL code. I've also not written anything in about 2 years in Revelation and that was for Revelation G (really old) so I'm not sure it would count. I think that the RPL is the killer. There are people who have done work on multiple MV platforms who can do all the rest, though if you're not talking Revelation G, then Revelation is different, and you have to have done more than just BASIC coding. Of course, as noted, people with that depth of skill are not generally on the hunt... Depends where you're located, I guess. In the last dozen years here in Portland, I've been at two places that dropped Universe for other platforms, and another that outsourced all their system work to a company in California so that they could use my position to instead hire a project manager who was a friend of the department head. (Oh, and one company that suddenly laid off 25% of their employees one day.) Since 1999, I've nearly _always_ been on the hunt... John ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
A good CEO knows the first rule of employing. First look at attitude, then capability and last experience. When you write a resume, don't list experience, list your capability to pick up languages, ability to adapt and ability to understand the business. It is also worth looking at how to get jobs a different way to the usually job markets. Politicians spin bad news to good news, your competitors in the job market spin their lack of ability to win jobs. Step back and look at your resume a different way. Regards David Jordan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
You're not interviewing with the CEO for this job :) You're lucky if you get past the junior level trainee in the recruiters office Oh you have 20 years of experience in D3? Well they also want to make sure you know Power Point -Original Message- From: David Jordan da...@dacono.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 2:14 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue A good CEO knows the first rule of employing. First look at attitude, then capability and last experience. When you write a resume, don't list experience, list your capability to pick up languages, ability to adapt and ability to understand the business. It is also worth looking at how to get jobs a different way to the usually job markets. Politicians spin bad news to good news, your competitors in the job market spin their lack of ability to win jobs. Step back and look at your resume a different way. Regards David Jordan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
hmm and there was I thinking it was tiime for RPL.NET. All it would need is a tortuously non obvious syntax for property and method setting and class instantiation and it would be job done.. just need another buffer type for handles.. C instantiate my form and return handle IS ^1 MyForm ELSE \XNothing doing\END C set title property to hello MV ^1.Title hello C get value of client width indirectly MV %2 ClientWidth MV %3 ^1.%2 C double it F;%3;%3;+;?^1.%2 Cshow it MX ^1.Show Couldn't be more legible. Brian Sent from my iPad On 1 Nov 2012, at 19:32, charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote: I did a lot of RPL coding in the 80s. I remember when I left that job telling them that I would rather slide down a razor blade into a vat of alcohol than write one more line of RPL code. But that's just my opinion. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
I didn't say it was easy, I am saying if you want to increase your opportunity change the dynamics. You can curse and disparate the selection until the cows come home and it won't change a thing, you have to change the way you get the job interview. Regards David Jordan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Where's my pitchfork? -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Cc: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 3:22 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue hmm and there was I thinking it was tiime for RPL.NET. All it would need is a tortuously non obvious syntax for property and method setting and class instantiation and it would be job done.. just need another buffer type for handles.. C instantiate my form and return handle IS ^1 MyForm ELSE \XNothing doing\END C set title property to hello MV ^1.Title hello C get value of client width indirectly MV %2 ClientWidth MV %3 ^1.%2 C double it F;%3;%3;+;?^1.%2 Cshow it MX ^1.Show Couldn't be more legible. Brian Sent from my iPad On 1 Nov 2012, at 19:32, charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote: I did a lot of RPL coding in the 80s. I remember when I left that job telling them that I would rather slide down a razor blade into a vat of alcohol than write one more line of RPL code. But that's just my opinion. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
and I overlooked the obvious, using the ! buffer for IEnumerable.. its a winner. Now, lambdas.. that might be a challenge.. they're already ugly enough. B Sent from my iPad On 1 Nov 2012, at 22:25, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: Where's my pitchfork? -Original Message- From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Cc: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 3:22 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue hmm and there was I thinking it was tiime for RPL.NET. All it would need is a tortuously non obvious syntax for property and method setting and class instantiation and it would be job done.. just need another buffer type for handles.. C instantiate my form and return handle IS ^1 MyForm ELSE \XNothing doing\END C set title property to hello MV ^1.Title hello C get value of client width indirectly MV %2 ClientWidth MV %3 ^1.%2 C double it F;%3;%3;+;?^1.%2 Cshow it MX ^1.Show Couldn't be more legible. Brian Sent from my iPad On 1 Nov 2012, at 19:32, charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote: I did a lot of RPL coding in the 80s. I remember when I left that job telling them that I would rather slide down a razor blade into a vat of alcohol than write one more line of RPL code. But that's just my opinion. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:23 PM, David Jordan da...@dacono.com.au wrote: you have to change the way you get the job interview. Only works if there are jobs available. In Portland, the long list of what people are looking for in skills when hiring does not include Pick (or other varieties). And years of experience in the field plus knowledge of xxx (say, PHP) does not equal five years of experience in PHP specifically using tools x and y in their equation, and you don't get past the initial screening. So I scramble to get what I can. Right now, I'm working QA on a contract and haven't had a chance for a permanent job for seven years now. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
In the mainstream, it's generally understood that one must be in a constant learning cycle, or skills get outdated in a matter of 6-18 months. So .NET people need to understand the difference between WebForms and MVC, and adapt to generics, lambdas, and dynamic types. Java people need to adjust to changes in frameworks, networking, security, and XML parsing. PHP people need to understand competing frameworks as well as balance their server-side skills with JavaScript and related client frameworks. Any browser developer needs to shift with browser changes, now HTML5, CSS3, etc. And some of us need to do all of the above and then some. But what changes in the Pick world? Not much. And how do a lot of Pick people respond to that? By not feeling a need to do anything but R83-compatible BASIC. There are a lot of jobs out there for developers of new UI's for existing MV apps, but few people available who can satisfy the demand. And yet Pick people have had nearly two decades to improve their skills. Every developer here should be qualified for the job associated with this thread, because that ad looks pretty much like any other ad in this industry these days. I'm not trying to paint every Pickie as a dinosaur or a laggard - far from it. I'm just saying there are too many people who still only know BASIC while there have been any number of opportunities to move beyond that. And there are any number of examples of people in the mainstream who are in a constant mode of adaptation to prove that this is not only possible but the established norm. We are where we are in the Pick industry because Pick people generally become complacent in the belief that they are already using the best database in the world, so they don't need to learn anything else. That's just wrong at so many levels. That cripples the industry, making it more difficult for VARs to sell their software and for the DBMS providers to continue investing in this niche market. And let's face it, the additional problem that many here face is that the developer base is now aging, and it's difficult to start from scratch and jump on Mr Toad's Wild Technology Ride. We just can't do that anymore - myself included. What this means is that many people need to recognize their own limitations, and transition their approach to finding employment and consulting gigs. Position as a manager rather than as a programmer. Profile your skills as a problem solver who can get qualified people to write code, rather than competing with a million people who can write code but can't solve real world business problems. Sell your understanding of business rules, because this is an area where you excel compared to all of those people who can write code but have no idea what to write. T From: John Lorentz David Jordan wrote: you have to change the way you get the job interview. Only works if there are jobs available. In Portland, the long list of what people are looking for in skills when hiring does not include Pick (or other varieties). And years of experience in the field plus knowledge of xxx (say, PHP) does not equal five years of experience in PHP specifically using tools x and y in their equation, and you don't get past the initial screening. So I scramble to get what I can. Right now, I'm working QA on a contract and haven't had a chance for a permanent job for seven years now. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Tony, As usual, you make some good points, however, I have a little different viewpoint. For the past 20 years I have worked for several mom and pop companies. These companies have refused to provide training for their employees including me and are very slow to adopt new developments in this business. I get reasons like, for what I'm paying you, you should already know ever thing, when so and so got back from training, they told me 'I know enough to get started, but I'm no expert', so no more training. (I guess the boss thinks a few days in class make you an expert!), I'll send you when we get a customer to buy the xyz product and several more I can't remember at the moment. Once, I was charged with supporting a customer with a new product and I was allowed to attend the same 3 day FREE training as the customer!! The customer had a couple of programmers that dug into it and within a couple of DAYS they knew more about it than I did, but I was still supposed to act like I knew what I was doing! Very frustrating. Any kind of Pick related training is always somewhere else and when the employer won't pay for you to go, what do you do? I understand it costs a lot but not being properly trained costs too. It seems a lot of employers want someone with specific experience instead of looking at your potential and ambition. Regards, Don Robinson From: Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue In the mainstream, it's generally understood that one must be in a constant learning cycle, or skills get outdated in a matter of 6-18 months. So .NET people need to understand the difference between WebForms and MVC, and adapt to generics, lambdas, and dynamic types. Java people need to adjust to changes in frameworks, networking, security, and XML parsing. PHP people need to understand competing frameworks as well as balance their server-side skills with JavaScript and related client frameworks. Any browser developer needs to shift with browser changes, now HTML5, CSS3, etc. And some of us need to do all of the above and then some. But what changes in the Pick world? Not much. And how do a lot of Pick people respond to that? By not feeling a need to do anything but R83-compatible BASIC. There are a lot of jobs out there for developers of new UI's for existing MV apps, but few people available who can satisfy the demand. And yet Pick people have had nearly two decades to improve their skills. Every developer here should be qualified for the job associated with this thread, because that ad looks pretty much like any other ad in this industry these days. I'm not trying to paint every Pickie as a dinosaur or a laggard - far from it. I'm just saying there are too many people who still only know BASIC while there have been any number of opportunities to move beyond that. And there are any number of examples of people in the mainstream who are in a constant mode of adaptation to prove that this is not only possible but the established norm. We are where we are in the Pick industry because Pick people generally become complacent in the belief that they are already using the best database in the world, so they don't need to learn anything else. That's just wrong at so many levels. That cripples the industry, making it more difficult for VARs to sell their software and for the DBMS providers to continue investing in this niche market. And let's face it, the additional problem that many here face is that the developer base is now aging, and it's difficult to start from scratch and jump on Mr Toad's Wild Technology Ride. We just can't do that anymore - myself included. What this means is that many people need to recognize their own limitations, and transition their approach to finding employment and consulting gigs. Position as a manager rather than as a programmer. Profile your skills as a problem solver who can get qualified people to write code, rather than competing with a million people who can write code but can't solve real world business problems. Sell your understanding of business rules, because this is an area where you excel compared to all of those people who can write code but have no idea what to write. T From: John Lorentz David Jordan wrote: you have to change the way you get the job interview. Only works if there are jobs available. In Portland, the long list of what people are looking for in skills when hiring does not include Pick (or other varieties). And years of experience in the field plus knowledge of xxx (say, PHP) does not equal five years of experience in PHP specifically using tools x and y in their equation, and you don't get past the initial screening. So I scramble to get what I can. Right now, I'm working QA on a contract and haven't had a chance for a permanent job for seven years now
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
Kind of reminds me of my phone. It's gotten so many functions, that barely work, now I can't even make a simple phone call. So I ditched my Android and went to a pay-as-you-go simple phone. Now I can receive and make calls without any problems. Who'd have thought? :-) Bill P.S. Now I'm waiting for the new Thinkpad X1 to get a better docking station and offload my business email to the cloud, where I can securely store and access 10Gb of archived email. Then I'll just walk around with a phone that works and an ultra-thin ultra-fast workstation I can open up and access the internet in a few seconds, to get whatever I need (and be able to read it and interface by typing 70 wpm). Ahhh... - Original Message - *From:* 3xk547...@sneakemail.com *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 11/1/2012 4:25 PM *Subject:* Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue In the mainstream, it's generally understood that one must be in a constant learning cycle, or skills get outdated in a matter of 6-18 months. So .NET people need to understand the difference between WebForms and MVC, and adapt to generics, lambdas, and dynamic types. Java people need to adjust to changes in frameworks, networking, security, and XML parsing. PHP people need to understand competing frameworks as well as balance their server-side skills with JavaScript and related client frameworks. Any browser developer needs to shift with browser changes, now HTML5, CSS3, etc. And some of us need to do all of the above and then some. But what changes in the Pick world? Not much. And how do a lot of Pick people respond to that? By not feeling a need to do anything but R83-compatible BASIC. There are a lot of jobs out there for developers of new UI's for existing MV apps, but few people available who can satisfy the demand. And yet Pick people have had nearly two decades to improve their skills. Every developer here should be qualified for the job associated with this thread, because that ad looks pretty much like any other ad in this industry these days. I'm not trying to paint every Pickie as a dinosaur or a laggard - far from it. I'm just saying there are too many people who still only know BASIC while there have been any number of opportunities to move beyond that. And there are any number of examples of people in the mainstream who are in a constant mode of adaptation to prove that this is not only possible but the established norm. We are where we are in the Pick industry because Pick people generally become complacent in the belief that they are already using the best database in the world, so they don't need to learn anything else. That's just wrong at so many levels. That cripples the industry, making it more difficult for VARs to sell their software and for the DBMS providers to continue investing in this niche market. And let's face it, the additional problem that many here face is that the developer base is now aging, and it's difficult to start from scratch and jump on Mr Toad's Wild Technology Ride. We just can't do that anymore - myself included. What this means is that many people need to recognize their own limitations, and transition their approach to finding employment and consulting gigs. Position as a manager rather than as a programmer. Profile your skills as a problem solver who can get qualified people to write code, rather than competing with a million people who can write code but can't solve real world business problems. Sell your understanding of business rules, because this is an area where you excel compared to all of those people who can write code but have no idea what to write. T From: John Lorentz David Jordan wrote: you have to change the way you get the job interview. Only works if there are jobs available. In Portland, the long list of what people are looking for in skills when hiring does not include Pick (or other varieties). And years of experience in the field plus knowledge of xxx (say, PHP) does not equal five years of experience in PHP specifically using tools x and y in their equation, and you don't get past the initial screening. So I scramble to get what I can. Right now, I'm working QA on a contract and haven't had a chance for a permanent job for seven years now. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
TonyG wrote: *Profile your skills as a problem solver who can get qualified people to write code, rather than competing with a million people who can write code but can't solve real world business problems. Sell your understanding of business rules, because this is an area where you excel compared to all of those people who can write code but have no idea what to write.* I know it's difficult to find a position in this economy but from the employer side I can tell you it's been difficult to find people who even acknowledge that the world of technology reaches beyond their current skillset. One of the questions I ask in every interview is what have you learned and applied recently? and yet more times than not I get blank stares instead of a real answer. Well guess what? Nobody is going to pay you to get trained, but do it anyway. There are copious resources available for free or low cost to get started, and once you get started you'll find more stuff to learn with less to invest. Get creative. That's what we've been doing for our employers for years, so why not do it for yourself? Sure, you're tired, there's no time to learn, yada, yada. Do it anyway. Learn or burn. Not that anyone cares, but I have a deal with myself that has served me well for decades. Commit to yourself that any investment in your yourself must come with a payout of a factor of the investment. For me, that factor is 100x. In other words, if I spend $50 on a book I commit to myself to learn enough from that book to earn $5K. If I spend an hour of time learning something, then I commit to finding 100 hours of opportunity to apply what I have learned. Certainly through the years there've been a few duds, but more often than not this has worked splendidly. The key to the whole deal is in committing to execute the payout. If you can't be counted on to pay yourself back for an investment in yourself, why would an employer want to make a similar commitment? I know, I know... preaching to the choir. Or am I? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
