Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I generally double-click on a picture to open it and then double-click on that 
to full-screen it.  If it's larger than the screen the picture gets reduced 
in size to fit.  If i have a lot of pics to look through then instead of 
Full-screening it i go to the menus and choose

View - Slideshow

and use the keyboard arrows to flick through or just let it run
Regards from 
Tom :)  






 From: Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net
To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013, 5:46
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 

On 04/16/2013 11:22 PM, anne-ology wrote:
         ah, yes; and photography is such fun.



 On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:53 PM, les hlhow...@pacbell.net wrote:

 On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 11:08 -0700, Girvin Herr wrote:
 Tom,
 +5
 Don't get me started on this subject!
 I use 640x480 (300K) on my photos, which are reasonable file sizes to
 attach to messages and they look good enough to me at 4x5 photo paper
 sizes.  I have no intention of blowing my photos up to 8x10 or larger.
 That blowup is where the larger pixel count is good, but who does that
 regularly?  I keep getting photos from relatives of their grandson, etc.
 that are so detailed I can see the pores on the kid's face, but I can't
 see the entire picture on the screen at once!  It is frustrating to
 scroll around the photo on my screen to get some idea of what the photo
 is about.  Sometimes I just don't bother.  Life is too short.

 One thing that is enabling this megapixel bloat is the increasing size
 of the memory cards.  For example, my camera, at 640x480 (300K), is
 showing  photos available with a few shots already on it and with an
 8GB card.  At 4608x3456 (16M), it is down to 1877 photos.  Yes, it is a
 16 megapixel camera.
 Girvin


Why not open the file in a viewer that lets you zoom the size? Gwenview
is one, GIMP is another. Probably a whole batch, some better than others.

--doug

-- 
Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides.  A.M. 
Greeley


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Girvin Herr]

Tom,
Thanks, I will try that double-click next time.
Girvin


On 04/17/2013 02:21 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
I generally double-click on a picture to open it and then double-click on that to full-screen 
it.  If it's larger than the screen the picture gets reduced in size to fit.  If i have a lot 
of pics to look through then instead of Full-screening it i go to the menus and choose

View - Slideshow

and use the keyboard arrows to flick through or just let it run
Regards from
Tom :)



snip

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[les]

On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 22:22 -0500, anne-ology wrote:
ah, yes; and photography is such fun.
 
 
 
 On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:53 PM, les hlhow...@pacbell.net wrote:
 
 On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 11:08 -0700, Girvin Herr wrote:
   Tom,
   +5
   Don't get me started on this subject!
   I use 640x480 (300K) on my photos, which are reasonable file sizes to
   attach to messages and they look good enough to me at 4x5 photo paper
   sizes.  I have no intention of blowing my photos up to 8x10 or larger.
   That blowup is where the larger pixel count is good, but who does that
   regularly?  I keep getting photos from relatives of their grandson, etc.
   that are so detailed I can see the pores on the kid's face, but I can't
   see the entire picture on the screen at once!  It is frustrating to
   scroll around the photo on my screen to get some idea of what the photo
   is about.  Sometimes I just don't bother.  Life is too short.
  
   One thing that is enabling this megapixel bloat is the increasing size
   of the memory cards.  For example, my camera, at 640x480 (300K), is
   showing  photos available with a few shots already on it and with an
   8GB card.  At 4608x3456 (16M), it is down to 1877 photos.  Yes, it is a
   16 megapixel camera.
   Girvin
  
  
   On 04/16/2013 04:03 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
Hi :)
They do and it does. :D
   
This mega pixel malarky is hilarious.  Everyone else is racing to
  get more and more mega-pixels (is 12 or 16 mega-pixels the standard issue
  now?) so that they can have more noise and distortions and file-sizes like
  a herd of elephants trying to stampeded down my phone-line.  One company is
  trying to market a 4 Mega-pixels camera that gives a better quality image
  by not adding in random fuzziness.  However everyone is going to say this
  16 megapixels MUST be better than 4 right?  4 is old isn't it?.  meanwhile
  we getting stunning photos of Mars done on  'old' 2 megapixels cameras.  It
  wouldn't be quite so bad if mega-pixel really meant anything.  It clearly
  does NOT mean 1,000 pixels (or 1,024 in computers)
Regards from
Tom :)
   
   
   
   
   

From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2013, 2:45
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
   
   
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:
   
Hi :)
Most on-line dictionaries (in the top 10 according to a google
  search) agree that
A neologism is a newly coined term, word, or
phrase, that may be in the process of entering common use, but has
  not
yet been accepted into mainstream
but my fav is Mirriam-Webster's bucking the trend amusingly
a meaningless word coined by a psychotic.
   
Even though it is not apt it's still quietly amusing, to me at
least, sorry Felmon bud! :)
no problem but seriously, if the people in the telly were constantly
sending _you_ neologisms, don't pretend it wouldn't unsettle you a bit
too.
   
F.
   
Regards from Tom :)
   
   
   
   
   
   

From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Monday, 15 April 2013, 21:59
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
   
   
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:
   
very interesting, yes indeed  ;-)
   
well, the more I read this list, 'the more I seem to
  learn, yet the
stupider I feel'  ;-)
(the glorified typewriter has so surpassed me)
   
I note you've used a 'new' word; acronymonious seems to
  fit well in
this saga -
yet I hope you didn't mis-type acrimonious  ;-)
(oh, surely not)
I did not mistype. I went neologistic on you.
   
F.
   
   
   
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
  wrote:
   
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:
 yikes, sounds as if I need further information -
or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)
   
not sure how the further discussion would be relevant to you if
  you just
want to use the tool. the link I gave you explains the things
  pdftk can do.
you can then decide if it might be useful.
   
the next step is to determine if you find it convenient to use.
   
of course, if you are also interested in how the tool is built,
  then
that's a different matter.
   
   
 Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay
  tuned  ;-)
Ah, acronyms  ;-)
tk := http://www.acronymfinder.com/**TK.html
  http://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
(well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind
  tends to wander
- puns are so much fun  :-)  )
   
don't mean to be acronymonious about it but all disciplines and
occupations use abbreviations and have specialist dictionaries

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
They do and it does. :D  

This mega pixel malarky is hilarious.  Everyone else is racing to get more 
and more mega-pixels (is 12 or 16 mega-pixels the standard issue now?) so that 
they can have more noise and distortions and file-sizes like a herd of 
elephants trying to stampeded down my phone-line.  One company is trying to 
market a 4 Mega-pixels camera that gives a better quality image by not adding 
in random fuzziness.  However everyone is going to say this 16 megapixels MUST 
be better than 4 right?  4 is old isn't it?.  meanwhile we getting stunning 
photos of Mars done on  'old' 2 megapixels cameras.  It wouldn't be quite so 
bad if mega-pixel really meant anything.  It clearly does NOT mean 1,000 
pixels (or 1,024 in computers)
Regards from 
Tom :)  






 From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2013, 2:45
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:

 Hi :)
 Most on-line dictionaries (in the top 10 according to a google search) agree 
 that 
 A neologism is a newly coined term, word, or 
 phrase, that may be in the process of entering common use, but has not 
 yet been accepted into mainstream
 but my fav is Mirriam-Webster's bucking the trend amusingly
 a meaningless word coined by a psychotic.

 Even though it is not apt it's still quietly amusing, to me at 
 least, sorry Felmon bud! :)

no problem but seriously, if the people in the telly were constantly 
sending _you_ neologisms, don't pretend it wouldn't unsettle you a bit 
too.

F.

 Regards from Tom :) 






 
 From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
 To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
 Sent: Monday, 15 April 2013, 21:59
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 

 On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:

        very interesting, yes indeed  ;-)

        well, the more I read this list, 'the more I seem to learn, yet the
 stupider I feel'  ;-)
                (the glorified typewriter has so surpassed me)

        I note you've used a 'new' word; acronymonious seems to fit well in
 this saga -
            yet I hope you didn't mis-type acrimonious  ;-)
                (oh, surely not)

 I did not mistype. I went neologistic on you.

 F.




 On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:

         yikes, sounds as if I need further information -
            or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)


 not sure how the further discussion would be relevant to you if you just
 want to use the tool. the link I gave you explains the things pdftk can 
 do.
 you can then decide if it might be useful.

 the next step is to determine if you find it convenient to use.

 of course, if you are also interested in how the tool is built, then
 that's a different matter.


         Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned  ;-)

        Ah, acronyms  ;-)
            tk := 
 http://www.acronymfinder.com/**TK.htmlhttp://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
        (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to 
 wander
 - puns are so much fun  :-)  )


 don't mean to be acronymonious about it but all disciplines and
 occupations use abbreviations and have specialist dictionaries -
 general-purpose dictionaries won't do.

 F.




 On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:


   Felmon,

 Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

   
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftk
 https://en.wikipedia.**org/wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk



 So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime
 Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't 
 pretty,
 but functional.

 I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in
 the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc 
 to
 build it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own
 gui
 code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be
 surprised
 if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
 Girvin Herr


 good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

 makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various platforms.

 I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off 
 of
 Windows or something.

 I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

 F.




 On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:

   On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:

   snip


   I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was
 confused
 by the discussion of desktop environments.

 it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the
 Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui
 interface on Linux.

 Felmon

   snip




 -- 
 Felmon Davis

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   you're cute and knowledgeable - a great combination!



On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:

very interesting, yes indeed  ;-)

   well, the more I read this list, 'the more I seem to learn, yet the
 stupider I feel'  ;-)
   (the glorified typewriter has so surpassed me)

   I note you've used a 'new' word; acronymonious seems to fit well in
 this saga -
   yet I hope you didn't mis-type acrimonious  ;-)
   (oh, surely not)


 I did not mistype. I went neologistic on you.

 F.




 On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:


yikes, sounds as if I need further information -

   or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)


 not sure how the further discussion would be relevant to you if you just
 want to use the tool. the link I gave you explains the things pdftk can
 do.
 you can then decide if it might be useful.

 the next step is to determine if you find it convenient to use.

 of course, if you are also interested in how the tool is built, then
 that's a different matter.


Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned  ;-)


   Ah, acronyms  ;-)
   tk := 
 http://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.htmlhttp://www.acronymfinder.com/**TK.html
 http://www.**acronymfinder.com/TK.htmlhttp://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
 

   (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to
 wander
 - puns are so much fun  :-)  )


 don't mean to be acronymonious about it but all disciplines and
 occupations use abbreviations and have specialist dictionaries -
 general-purpose dictionaries won't do.

 F.




 On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:


  Felmon,

  Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

   
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk
 https://en.**wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftk
 
 https://en.wikipedia.**org/**wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.**
 wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk




 So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime
 Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't
 pretty,
 but functional.

 I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in
 the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc
 to
 build it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its
 own
 gui
 code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be
 surprised
 if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
 Girvin Herr


  good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

 makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various
 platforms.

 I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off
 of
 Windows or something.

 I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

 F.




  On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:

  On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:


  snip


  I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was

 confused
 by the discussion of desktop environments.

 it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the
 Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui
 interface on Linux.

 Felmon

  snip




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All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   ah, yes; and photography is such fun.



On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:53 PM, les hlhow...@pacbell.net wrote:

On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 11:08 -0700, Girvin Herr wrote:
  Tom,
  +5
  Don't get me started on this subject!
  I use 640x480 (300K) on my photos, which are reasonable file sizes to
  attach to messages and they look good enough to me at 4x5 photo paper
  sizes.  I have no intention of blowing my photos up to 8x10 or larger.
  That blowup is where the larger pixel count is good, but who does that
  regularly?  I keep getting photos from relatives of their grandson, etc.
  that are so detailed I can see the pores on the kid's face, but I can't
  see the entire picture on the screen at once!  It is frustrating to
  scroll around the photo on my screen to get some idea of what the photo
  is about.  Sometimes I just don't bother.  Life is too short.
 
  One thing that is enabling this megapixel bloat is the increasing size
  of the memory cards.  For example, my camera, at 640x480 (300K), is
  showing  photos available with a few shots already on it and with an
  8GB card.  At 4608x3456 (16M), it is down to 1877 photos.  Yes, it is a
  16 megapixel camera.
  Girvin
 
 
  On 04/16/2013 04:03 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
   Hi :)
   They do and it does. :D
  
   This mega pixel malarky is hilarious.  Everyone else is racing to
 get more and more mega-pixels (is 12 or 16 mega-pixels the standard issue
 now?) so that they can have more noise and distortions and file-sizes like
 a herd of elephants trying to stampeded down my phone-line.  One company is
 trying to market a 4 Mega-pixels camera that gives a better quality image
 by not adding in random fuzziness.  However everyone is going to say this
 16 megapixels MUST be better than 4 right?  4 is old isn't it?.  meanwhile
 we getting stunning photos of Mars done on  'old' 2 megapixels cameras.  It
 wouldn't be quite so bad if mega-pixel really meant anything.  It clearly
 does NOT mean 1,000 pixels (or 1,024 in computers)
   Regards from
   Tom :)
  
  
  
  
  
   
   From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
   To: users@global.libreoffice.org
   Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2013, 2:45
   Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
  
  
   On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:
  
   Hi :)
   Most on-line dictionaries (in the top 10 according to a google
 search) agree that
   A neologism is a newly coined term, word, or
   phrase, that may be in the process of entering common use, but has
 not
   yet been accepted into mainstream
   but my fav is Mirriam-Webster's bucking the trend amusingly
   a meaningless word coined by a psychotic.
  
   Even though it is not apt it's still quietly amusing, to me at
   least, sorry Felmon bud! :)
   no problem but seriously, if the people in the telly were constantly
   sending _you_ neologisms, don't pretend it wouldn't unsettle you a bit
   too.
  
   F.
  
   Regards from Tom :)
  
  
  
  
  
  
   
   From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
   To: users@global.libreoffice.org
   Sent: Monday, 15 April 2013, 21:59
   Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
  
  
   On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:
  
   very interesting, yes indeed  ;-)
  
   well, the more I read this list, 'the more I seem to
 learn, yet the
   stupider I feel'  ;-)
   (the glorified typewriter has so surpassed me)
  
   I note you've used a 'new' word; acronymonious seems to
 fit well in
   this saga -
   yet I hope you didn't mis-type acrimonious  ;-)
   (oh, surely not)
   I did not mistype. I went neologistic on you.
  
   F.
  
  
  
   On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
 wrote:
  
   On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:
yikes, sounds as if I need further information -
   or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)
  
   not sure how the further discussion would be relevant to you if
 you just
   want to use the tool. the link I gave you explains the things
 pdftk can do.
   you can then decide if it might be useful.
  
   the next step is to determine if you find it convenient to use.
  
   of course, if you are also interested in how the tool is built,
 then
   that's a different matter.
  
  
Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay
 tuned  ;-)
   Ah, acronyms  ;-)
   tk := http://www.acronymfinder.com/**TK.html
 http://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
   (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind
 tends to wander
   - puns are so much fun  :-)  )
  
   don't mean to be acronymonious about it but all disciplines and
   occupations use abbreviations and have specialist dictionaries -
   general-purpose dictionaries won't do.
  
   F.
  
  
  
   On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
 wrote:
  
   On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:
  
  Felmon

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Doug]

On 04/16/2013 11:22 PM, anne-ology wrote:

ah, yes; and photography is such fun.



On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:53 PM, les hlhow...@pacbell.net wrote:

On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 11:08 -0700, Girvin Herr wrote:

Tom,
+5
Don't get me started on this subject!
I use 640x480 (300K) on my photos, which are reasonable file sizes to
attach to messages and they look good enough to me at 4x5 photo paper
sizes.  I have no intention of blowing my photos up to 8x10 or larger.
That blowup is where the larger pixel count is good, but who does that
regularly?  I keep getting photos from relatives of their grandson, etc.
that are so detailed I can see the pores on the kid's face, but I can't
see the entire picture on the screen at once!  It is frustrating to
scroll around the photo on my screen to get some idea of what the photo
is about.  Sometimes I just don't bother.  Life is too short.

One thing that is enabling this megapixel bloat is the increasing size
of the memory cards.  For example, my camera, at 640x480 (300K), is
showing  photos available with a few shots already on it and with an
8GB card.  At 4608x3456 (16M), it is down to 1877 photos.  Yes, it is a
16 megapixel camera.
Girvin



Why not open the file in a viewer that lets you zoom the size? Gwenview
is one, GIMP is another. Probably a whole batch, some better than others.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides.  A.M. 
Greeley


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   yikes, sounds as if I need further information -
   or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)

   Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned  ;-)

   Ah, acronyms  ;-)
   tk := http://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
   (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to wander
- puns are so much fun  :-)  )



On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:

  Felmon,
 Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk

 So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime
 Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't pretty,
 but functional.

 I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in
 the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to
 build it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own gui
 code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be surprised
 if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
 Girvin Herr


 good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

 makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various platforms.

 I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off of
 Windows or something.

 I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

 F.




 On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:

 On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:

  snip

 I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was confused
 by the discussion of desktop environments.

 it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the
 Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui
 interface on Linux.

 Felmon

 snip




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Felmon Davis]

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:


  yikes, sounds as if I need further information -
  or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)


not sure how the further discussion would be relevant to you if you 
just want to use the tool. the link I gave you explains the things 
pdftk can do. you can then decide if it might be useful.


the next step is to determine if you find it convenient to use.

of course, if you are also interested in how the tool is built, then 
that's a different matter.



  Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned  ;-)

  Ah, acronyms  ;-)
  tk := http://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
  (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to wander
- puns are so much fun  :-)  )


don't mean to be acronymonious about it but all disciplines and 
occupations use abbreviations and have specialist dictionaries - 
general-purpose dictionaries won't do.


F.





On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:


 Felmon,

Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk

So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime
Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't pretty,
but functional.

I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in
the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to
build it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own gui
code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be surprised
if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
Girvin Herr



good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various platforms.

I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off of
Windows or something.

I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

F.





On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:


On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:

 snip



I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was confused
by the discussion of desktop environments.

it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the
Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui
interface on Linux.

Felmon


snip







--
Felmon Davis

Appearances are not everything; it just looks like they are.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Girvin Herr]

I always try to expand acronyms when I first use them in text.  That is 
good writing form and good communication, which is what writing is all 
about.  However, it Is beyond the scope of these messages to describe 
the terms.  That task is left as an exercise to the student.

I always say: when I stop learning, it is time to bury me.

Oh, pdftk is probably an acronym for Portable Document Format Tool Kit.  
But it is a software program, so the term is atomic, meaning it is 
inseparable, and it can mean anything the programmer wants it to.

Class dismissed!
Girvin Herr


On 04/15/2013 08:26 AM, anne-ology wrote:

yikes, sounds as if I need further information -
or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)

Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned  ;-)

Ah, acronyms  ;-)
tk := http://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
(well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to wander
- puns are so much fun  :-)  )



On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:

  Felmon,

Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk

So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime
Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't pretty,
but functional.

I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in
the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to
build it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own gui
code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be surprised
if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
Girvin Herr


good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various platforms.

I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off of
Windows or something.

I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

F.




On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:


On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:

  snip
I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was confused
by the discussion of desktop environments.

it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the
Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui
interface on Linux.

Felmon


snip






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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   very interesting, yes indeed  ;-)

   well, the more I read this list, 'the more I seem to learn, yet the
stupider I feel'  ;-)
   (the glorified typewriter has so surpassed me)

   I note you've used a 'new' word; acronymonious seems to fit well in
this saga -
   yet I hope you didn't mis-type acrimonious  ;-)
   (oh, surely not)



On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:

yikes, sounds as if I need further information -
   or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)


 not sure how the further discussion would be relevant to you if you just
 want to use the tool. the link I gave you explains the things pdftk can do.
 you can then decide if it might be useful.

 the next step is to determine if you find it convenient to use.

 of course, if you are also interested in how the tool is built, then
 that's a different matter.


Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned  ;-)

   Ah, acronyms  ;-)
   tk := 
 http://www.acronymfinder.com/**TK.htmlhttp://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
   (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to wander
 - puns are so much fun  :-)  )


 don't mean to be acronymonious about it but all disciplines and
 occupations use abbreviations and have specialist dictionaries -
 general-purpose dictionaries won't do.

 F.




 On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:


  Felmon,

 Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

   
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftk
 https://en.wikipedia.**org/wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk
 


 So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime
 Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't pretty,
 but functional.

 I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in
 the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to
 build it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own
 gui
 code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be
 surprised
 if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
 Girvin Herr


 good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

 makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various platforms.

 I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off of
 Windows or something.

 I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

 F.




 On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:

  On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:

  snip


  I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was
 confused
 by the discussion of desktop environments.

 it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the
 Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui
 interface on Linux.

 Felmon

  snip



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Felmon Davis]

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:


  very interesting, yes indeed  ;-)

  well, the more I read this list, 'the more I seem to learn, yet the
stupider I feel'  ;-)
  (the glorified typewriter has so surpassed me)

  I note you've used a 'new' word; acronymonious seems to fit well in
this saga -
  yet I hope you didn't mis-type acrimonious  ;-)
  (oh, surely not)


I did not mistype. I went neologistic on you.

F.





On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:


   yikes, sounds as if I need further information -

  or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)



not sure how the further discussion would be relevant to you if you just
want to use the tool. the link I gave you explains the things pdftk can do.
you can then decide if it might be useful.

the next step is to determine if you find it convenient to use.

of course, if you are also interested in how the tool is built, then
that's a different matter.


   Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned  ;-)


  Ah, acronyms  ;-)
  tk := 
http://www.acronymfinder.com/**TK.htmlhttp://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
  (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to wander
- puns are so much fun  :-)  )



don't mean to be acronymonious about it but all disciplines and
occupations use abbreviations and have specialist dictionaries -
general-purpose dictionaries won't do.

F.





On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:



 Felmon,


Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftk
https://en.wikipedia.**org/wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk





So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime
Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't pretty,
but functional.

I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in
the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to
build it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own
gui
code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be
surprised
if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
Girvin Herr



good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various platforms.

I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off of
Windows or something.

I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

F.





On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:

 On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:


 snip



 I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was

confused
by the discussion of desktop environments.

it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the
Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui
interface on Linux.

Felmon

 snip







--
Felmon Davis


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Most on-line dictionaries (in the top 10 according to a google search) agree 
that 
A neologism is a newly coined term, word, or 
phrase, that may be in the process of entering common use, but has not 
yet been accepted into mainstream
but my fav is Mirriam-Webster's bucking the trend amusingly
a meaningless word coined by a psychotic.

Even though it is not apt it's still quietly amusing, to me at least, sorry 
Felmon bud! :)
Regards from 
Tom :)  







 From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Monday, 15 April 2013, 21:59
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:

       very interesting, yes indeed  ;-)

       well, the more I read this list, 'the more I seem to learn, yet the
 stupider I feel'  ;-)
               (the glorified typewriter has so surpassed me)

       I note you've used a 'new' word; acronymonious seems to fit well in
 this saga -
           yet I hope you didn't mis-type acrimonious  ;-)
               (oh, surely not)

I did not mistype. I went neologistic on you.

F.




 On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:

        yikes, sounds as if I need further information -
           or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)


 not sure how the further discussion would be relevant to you if you just
 want to use the tool. the link I gave you explains the things pdftk can do.
 you can then decide if it might be useful.

 the next step is to determine if you find it convenient to use.

 of course, if you are also interested in how the tool is built, then
 that's a different matter.


        Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned  ;-)

       Ah, acronyms  ;-)
           tk := 
http://www.acronymfinder.com/**TK.htmlhttp://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
       (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to wander
 - puns are so much fun  :-)  )


 don't mean to be acronymonious about it but all disciplines and
 occupations use abbreviations and have specialist dictionaries -
 general-purpose dictionaries won't do.

 F.




 On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:


  Felmon,

 Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftk
 https://en.wikipedia.**org/wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk



 So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime
 Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't pretty,
 but functional.

 I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in
 the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to
 build it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own
 gui
 code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be
 surprised
 if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
 Girvin Herr


 good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

 makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various platforms.

 I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off of
 Windows or something.

 I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

 F.




 On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:

  On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:

  snip


  I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was
 confused
 by the discussion of desktop environments.

 it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the
 Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui
 interface on Linux.

 Felmon

  snip




-- 
Felmon Davis


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Felmon Davis]

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:


Hi :)
Most on-line dictionaries (in the top 10 according to a google search) agree that 
A neologism is a newly coined term, word, or 
phrase, that may be in the process of entering common use, but has not 
yet been accepted into mainstream

but my fav is Mirriam-Webster's bucking the trend amusingly
a meaningless word coined by a psychotic.

Even though it is not apt it's still quietly amusing, to me at 
least, sorry Felmon bud! :)


no problem but seriously, if the people in the telly were constantly 
sending _you_ neologisms, don't pretend it wouldn't unsettle you a bit 
too.


F.


Regards from Tom :) 








From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Monday, 15 April 2013, 21:59

Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem


On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:


       very interesting, yes indeed  ;-)

       well, the more I read this list, 'the more I seem to learn, yet the
stupider I feel'  ;-)
               (the glorified typewriter has so surpassed me)

       I note you've used a 'new' word; acronymonious seems to fit well in
this saga -
           yet I hope you didn't mis-type acrimonious  ;-)
               (oh, surely not)


I did not mistype. I went neologistic on you.

F.





On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:


        yikes, sounds as if I need further information -

           or need to keep studying ... ... ...  ;-)



not sure how the further discussion would be relevant to you if you just
want to use the tool. the link I gave you explains the things pdftk can do.
you can then decide if it might be useful.

the next step is to determine if you find it convenient to use.

of course, if you are also interested in how the tool is built, then
that's a different matter.


        Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned  ;-)


       Ah, acronyms  ;-)
           tk := 
http://www.acronymfinder.com/**TK.htmlhttp://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
       (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to wander
- puns are so much fun  :-)  )



don't mean to be acronymonious about it but all disciplines and
occupations use abbreviations and have specialist dictionaries -
general-purpose dictionaries won't do.

F.





On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:



  Felmon,


Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Pdftk
https://en.wikipedia.**org/wiki/Pdftkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk





So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime
Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't pretty,
but functional.

I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in
the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to
build it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own
gui
code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be
surprised
if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
Girvin Herr



good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various platforms.

I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off of
Windows or something.

I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

F.





On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:

  On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:


  snip



  I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was

confused
by the discussion of desktop environments.

it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the
Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui
interface on Linux.

Felmon

  snip







--
Felmon Davis


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--
Felmon Davis

Chastity and virtue are their own punishment.
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Girvin Herr]

Felmon,
Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk

So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime 
Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't pretty, 
but functional.


I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in 
the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to 
build it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own 
gui code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be 
surprised if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.

Girvin Herr


On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:

On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:


snip
I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was 
confused by the discussion of desktop environments.


it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the 
Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui 
interface on Linux.


Felmon

snip


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Felmon Davis]

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013, Girvin Herr wrote:


Felmon,
Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk

So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime 
Environment (JRE) interfaces with.  From my experience, it isn't pretty, but 
functional.


I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in the 
package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to build 
it.  But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own gui code, 
so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced.  I would be surprised if pdftk 
does not use the standard Java gui.

Girvin Herr


good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various 
platforms.


I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off 
of Windows or something.


I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

F.




On 04/13/2013 11:24 PM, Felmon Davis wrote:

On Sat, 13 Apr 2013, Tom Davies wrote:


snip
I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was confused by 
the discussion of desktop environments.


it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the Windows 
and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui interface on 
Linux.


Felmon

snip





--
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Live your live such that you need not hide your diary.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)  
I had  a feeling i was missing some wrinkles by accident and made a few 
mistakes.  There were a few wrinkles i was trying to skate over to try to make 
it simpler to understand.  

1.  I didn't know tk = tool kit, and gtk = gnome tool kit, that makes more 
sense of it to me now.  

2.  People did really seem to like the older versions of KDE and Gnome and a 
lot of people were somewhat shocked by how they both made such radical changes 
in their newer versions.  They both seem to have settled down a lot and become 
more accepted now so it might be worth leapfrogging over their .0 releases and 
going straight to their more recent versions.  Xfce is quite popular but 
perhaps that is a warning?  Perhaps they plan to do something radical?  As it 
is right now it's a tad heavier (ie more fully functional) than i expected.  
Enlightenment, Openbox, LxDE and tons of others are far, far  lighter.  I 
enjoyed Enlightenment but only used it briefly.  LxDE looked far too much like 
Windows in the implementation i used and i hated all the blues so much i 
couldn't bear it long enough to change them!  Oddly i am quite happy with Unity 
now although i can understand why others don't.  It kinda pre-empted Win8's UI 
but the implementation is less
 rammed down people's throats and gives us something a more familiar by 
default.  So if you are on Xfce can i recommend you try LxDE and Enlightenment 
(assuming it's not a pita to just quickly try them!  I'm not sure if it would 
involve compiling things and if it did i would avoid them)

3.  Superfluous or not is not the issue.  Some apps just have Qt at the front 
of their names, eg QtPartEd as the KDE equivalent of GPartEd with both using 
PartEd as their main back-end.  Other apps use a K, such as Kate; whereas Gnome 
apps use a G, such as Gedit.  

I tried to avoid mentioning apps that don't have those letters as indicators 
and i'm sure some apps accidentally use those letters without realising they 
have significance or as a deliberate attempt to buck against the 'rules'.  (not 
really rules at all of course, possibly not even unofficial guidelines)  


Gtk apps do run in KDE but they don't look pretty.  KDE gives them Win95-style 
borders and title-bars doesn't it?  My neighbour grumbles on about it as tho it 
meant the end of the world. 


The other way around, Qt on Gtk-based DEs - I'm not sure if there are still 
some Qt apps that don't run in some Gnome DE's or going wider to other 
Gtk-based ones but usually i would use the Gnome equivalent of such programs.  
I'm quite happy with Brasero, for example.  It does more than i need.  
Sometimes i even prefer GnomeBaker.  I really don't need the sophisticated 
tools built-into the KDE nearest equivalent.   


It's interesting to hear that Qt was proprietary!!  A bit of a shocker for me!  
Surely it is OpenSource by now?
Regards from 

Tom :)  






 From: Girvin Herr girvin.h...@sbcglobal.net
 

Tom,
My 2-cents.

On 04/12/2013 10:15 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

snip /

tk stands for Tool Kit, so truncating GTK (Gnome Tool Kit) is not entirely 
proper.

snip /

I have switched to Xfce, since IMHO KDE 4 is still a basket case even though 
it is release 10 (4.10) on my Slackware 14.0 distro! From what I am hearing on 
other forums, I am not alone in switching.  The K people had a very stable KDE 
in 3.5 and they were only up to release 5 (3.5).  I was sorry to see that 
stability go for an entire rewrite in KDE 4.


 
 Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles;
 1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really a 
 WM (=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE) and 
 Xfce apps work well in Gnome.

Not so.  From my experience, most of the apps without a K prefix are written 
with GTK, so they can run on the most DEs.  I ran GTK apps on KDE.

snip /

KDE is and has been, built on the QT libraries, so the QT is redundant.  K* 
can assume QT.  Most if not all of the other DEs are built on the GTK 
libraries.  In my experience, there are many more applications built on GTK 
than QT.  Apps built on GTK will run on KDE, however, I am not sure apps built 
for KDE will run on all GTK DEs.  I know for a fact that KDE apps will run 
well on Xfce, I am doing so.  In fact, I was amazed at how well they do run.  
The QT library was proprietary at one time (Trolltech).  I don't know if the 
current version is.  GTK is open source (GNU) licensed.

 
 I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going to 
 get deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like about 
 GnuLinux is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but 
 somehow manage to grow and learn from each other or make use of each others 
 achievements and even build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)
 Regards from
 Tom :)
 
Yours in enlightenment.
Girvin Herr


-- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I forgot the original question!  I got carried away on the tangent Anne started 
(always best to blame someone else.  Right?) by asking what is tk?  lol
Regards from
Tom :)  






 From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 21:53
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:

       Thanks for this summation -

I wonder what the original question was? I seem to have missed a part 
of the exchange.

           as for now, it's 'clear as mud'  ;-)

       Felmon - I'm studying the page you sent me.

I hope it can be of help; I've only ever used the Linux version but I 
imagine they aren't too different.

F.




 On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

 Hi :)
 Programs with tk (or more usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are
 for a one type of DE for GnuLinux.  Sometimes a G is used instead.  The
 other main type of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.

 Often programs have a back-end or command-line tool that does most of
 the heavy lifting and then different front-ends or Guis are put on for
 each of the 2 main types.

 Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro might
 have 2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE.  If you
 choose the 'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other DE
 or get a different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'.
 Tim at Kracked Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so he
 installs both.  It makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can use
 choose more apps.

 DE = Desktop Environment.  The main 2 are Gnome and KDE.  Most of the rest
 (Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able to
 use front-ends written for one or the other.

 Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles;
 1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really
 a WM (=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE) and
 Xfce apps work well in Gnome.  Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more fully
 functionally if you know what i mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G
 (stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but then that's a pain because
 the app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to reach
 everyone.
 2.  Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE
 makes sense but why the Qt?  Well, until recently Qt was less streamlined
 and was a lot of the weight in KDE.  Now it is a lot faster and lighter it
 seems that Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not
 quite enough of it for Tim's requirements.
 3.  Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't that
 make it the DE of choice!?  Oddly not.  It's been forked in at least 2 or 3
 different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can
 also run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular
 amongst purists)

 I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going
 to get deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like about
 GnuLinux is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but
 somehow manage to grow and learn from each other or make use of each others
 achievements and even build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)
 Regards from
 Tom :)


   --
  *From:* anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
 *To:* Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
 *Cc:* users@global.libreoffice.org
 *Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013, 16:29

 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

       Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
           and how to acquire it ...
               or is this something only for Linux users  ;-)

       The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
 these 'glorified-typewriters'  :-)



 On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:


 Hi Jay,

 Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
 exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
 drawings that can't be omitted.

 David


 what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself a
 pdf then use pdftk.

 pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.

 take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via
 pdftk.

 the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find it hard to remember) but at
 the same time very simple.

 Felmon



 From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
 To: users@global.libreoffice.org
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

 On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:

 I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import
 many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a
 single

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi Anne :)
Really don't worry about my answer!  I kinda wish i could pull it!  it's 
becoming quite interesting but is sooo far off-topic and tangential that it's 
not even in orbit of anything anymore.  
Regards from
Tom :)







 From: anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk 
Cc: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu; users@global.libreoffice.org 
users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 21:46
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 


   No apologies necessary - 
   it was just me being 'cute' again  ;-)

   Your response might make sense to me after I figure out what's what on 
that link - still studying it.





On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:


Hi :)
Yes, sorry about that!  When i started writing it all seemed clear in my mind 
but then somehow i got a bit lost after the 1st sentence and never found my 
way back to solid ground.  

Felmon's answer said much the same i think but was much shorter and clearer.  
Plus the link too.  Altogether much better!
Apols and regards from 
Tom :)  








 From: anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk 
Cc: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu; users@global.libreoffice.org 
users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 18:23

Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 


       Thanks for this summation -
           as for now, it's 'clear as mud'  ;-)

       Felmon - I'm studying the page you sent me.



On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

Hi :)
 Programs with tk (or more
 usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are
 for a one type of DE for GnuLinux.  Sometimes a G is used instead.  The
 other main type of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.

 Often programs have a back-end or command-line tool that does most of
 the heavy lifting and then different front-ends or Guis are put on for
 each of the 2 main types.

 Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro might
 have 2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE.  If you
 choose the 'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other DE
 or get a different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'.
 Tim at Kracked Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so he
 installs both.  It makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can use
 choose more
 apps.

 DE = Desktop Environment.  The main 2 are Gnome and KDE.  Most of the rest
 (Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able to
 use front-ends written for one or the other.

 Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles;
 1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really
 a WM (=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE) and
 Xfce apps work well in Gnome.  Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more fully
 functionally if you know what i mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G
 (stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but then that's a pain because
 the app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to reach
 everyone.
 2.  Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE
 makes sense but why the Qt?  Well,
 until recently Qt was less streamlined
 and was a lot of the weight in KDE.  Now it is a lot faster and lighter it
 seems that Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not
 quite enough of it for Tim's requirements.
 3.  Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't that
 make it the DE of choice!?  Oddly not.  It's been forked in at least 2 or 3
 different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can
 also run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular
 amongst purists)

 I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going
 to get deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like about
 GnuLinux is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but
 somehow manage to grow and learn from each other or make use of
 each others
 achievements and even build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)
 Regards from
 Tom :)


   --
  *From:* anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
 *To:* Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
 *Cc:* users@global.libreoffice.org
 *Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013, 16:29

 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem


       Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
           and how to acquire it ...
               or is this something only for Linux users 
 ;-)

       The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
 these 'glorified-typewriters'  :-)



 On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:
 
 
  Hi Jay,
 
  Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   so you've joined NASA  ;-)
  they've come a long way since first landing on the moon; will you
be the first to land on each of the planets  ;-)
  in order from Mercury to Venus to Earth to Mars to Jupiter to
Saturn to Uranus to Neptune to Pluto  ;-)
 then back again  ;-)

   Well, if we're going off on a tangent ... ... ...   ;-)



On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 7:44 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Hi Anne :)
 Really don't worry about my answer!  I kinda wish i could pull it!  it's
 becoming quite interesting but is sooo far off-topic and tangential that
 it's not even in orbit of anything anymore.
 Regards from
 Tom :)



   --
  *From:* anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
 *To:* Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk
 *Cc:* Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu; users@global.libreoffice.org 
 users@global.libreoffice.org
 *Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013, 21:46

 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

No apologies necessary -
it was just me being 'cute' again  ;-)

Your response might make sense to me after I figure out what's what
 on that link - still studying it.



 On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

 Hi :)
 Yes, sorry about that!  When i started writing it all seemed clear in my
 mind but then somehow i got a bit lost after the 1st sentence and never
 found my way back to solid ground.

 Felmon's answer said much the same i think but was much shorter and
 clearer.  Plus the link too.  Altogether much better!
 Apols and regards from
 Tom :)



   --
  *From:* anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
 *To:* Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk
 *Cc:* Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu; users@global.libreoffice.org 
 users@global.libreoffice.org
 *Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013, 18:23

 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

   Thanks for this summation -
   as for now, it's 'clear as mud'  ;-)

   Felmon - I'm studying the page you sent me.



 On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk
 wrote:

 Hi :)
  Programs with tk (or more usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are
  for a one type of DE for GnuLinux.  Sometimes a G is used instead.  The
  other main type of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.
 
  Often programs have a back-end or command-line tool that does most of
  the heavy lifting and then different front-ends or Guis are put on
 for
  each of the 2 main types.
 
  Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro
 might
  have 2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE.  If you
  choose the 'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other
 DE
  or get a different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'.
  Tim at Kracked Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so
 he
  installs both.  It makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can
 use
  choose more apps.
 
  DE = Desktop Environment.  The main 2 are Gnome and KDE.  Most of the
 rest
  (Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able
 to
  use front-ends written for one or the other.
 
  Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles;
  1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really
  a WM (=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE)
 and
  Xfce apps work well in Gnome.  Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more fully
  functionally if you know what i mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G
  (stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but then that's a pain
 because
  the app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to reach
  everyone.
  2.  Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE
  makes sense but why the Qt?  Well, until recently Qt was less streamlined
  and was a lot of the weight in KDE.  Now it is a lot faster and lighter
 it
  seems that Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not
  quite enough of it for Tim's requirements.
  3.  Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't
 that
  make it the DE of choice!?  Oddly not.  It's been forked in at least 2
 or 3
  different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can
  also run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular
  amongst purists)
 
  I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going
  to get deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like
 about
  GnuLinux is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but
  somehow manage to grow and learn from each other or make use of each
 others
  achievements and even build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)
  Regards from
  Tom :)
 
 
   --
   *From:* anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
  *To:* Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
  *Cc:* users

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
This was the post that sent me veering off-course.  Gtk or Tk apps often seem 
to have been ported to Windows but that might just be because i notice them more
Regards from 
Tom :)  






 From: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:15
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:

       Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
           and how to acquire it ...
              or is this something only for Linux users  ;-)

you can find information about versions for Windows at 
http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/; looks like the 
direct link to the Windows stuff is: 
http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_server-1.45-windows-setup.msi

I find pdftk a god-send.

F.


       The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
 these 'glorified-typewriters'  :-)




 On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:


 Hi Jay,

 Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
 exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
 drawings that can't be omitted.

 David


 what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself a
 pdf then use pdftk.

 pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.

 take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via pdftk.

 the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find it hard to remember) but at
 the same time very simple.

 Felmon



 From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
 To: users@global.libreoffice.org
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

 On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:

 I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David


  What OS are you using?

 In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file
 and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not
 know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file
 at once but would need to format the text.



 --
 Felmon Davis



-- 
Felmon Davis

Ralph's Observation:
    It is a mistake to let any mechanical object realise that you
    are in a hurry.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Actually this Steve is just describing a 2 or 3 click answer.  It's technically 
easier than the importing into Draw method but sounds more complicated because 
of unfamiliarity.  The use of names of things makes it sound complicated too 
but when you get through that it's amazingly simple.  If he were with you 
showing you or in screenshot or a YouTube video you would see what he means 
more clearly
Regards from
Tom :)  






 From: anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
To: Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.com 
Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 16:22
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 

       This seems to be a much longer way of editing  ;-)

           my way - open in LO's Draw program then edit page by page or
within each page;
              and/or save from the Draw program to whichever extension you
so desire.

       Well, I've always followed the KISs method - especially when it
comes to this 'glorified typewriter'  ;-)



On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:22 AM, Steve Edmonds
steve.edmo...@ptglobal.comwrote:

Hi.
 I just tried an interesting thing.
 Uploaded a PDF with images to google drive. Right clicked the PDF and open
 with google docs. Then the PDF was converted to a google doc and I could
 download the PDF as an odt and edit it.

 Steve

 On 2013-04-06 10:50, Tom Davies wrote:

 Hi :)
 Ouch!  Single images are ok as you can right-click and save them or even
 just drag them out of the Pdf sometimes but if it's tons of logos or
 overlapping images then it can be a total Pita.  My cheating way was to use
 Gimp to import (luckily only a page or 2 at a time and only a couple in the
 entire thing), crop and resize, sometimes change RGB into indexed and
 then alpha channel the white-space and plonked on the page.  After a few of
 those people stopped sending me stuff as Pdfs! :))
 Regards from
 Tom :)






 From: David Ronis ro...@ronispc.chem.mcgill.ca
 To: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
 Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org
 Sent: Friday, 5 April 2013, 22:28
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem


 Hi Jay,

 Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
 exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
 drawings that can't be omitted.

 David



 From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
 To: users@global.libreoffice.org
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

 On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:

 I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David


  What OS are you using?

 In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file
 and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not
 know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file
 at once but would need to format the text.

 --
 Jay Lozier
 jsloz...@gmail.com




-- 
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All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   This seems to be a much longer way of editing  ;-)

   my way - open in LO's Draw program then edit page by page or
within each page;
  and/or save from the Draw program to whichever extension you
so desire.

   Well, I've always followed the KISs method - especially when it
comes to this 'glorified typewriter'  ;-)



On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:22 AM, Steve Edmonds
steve.edmo...@ptglobal.comwrote:

Hi.
 I just tried an interesting thing.
 Uploaded a PDF with images to google drive. Right clicked the PDF and open
 with google docs. Then the PDF was converted to a google doc and I could
 download the PDF as an odt and edit it.

 Steve

 On 2013-04-06 10:50, Tom Davies wrote:

 Hi :)
 Ouch!  Single images are ok as you can right-click and save them or even
 just drag them out of the Pdf sometimes but if it's tons of logos or
 overlapping images then it can be a total Pita.  My cheating way was to use
 Gimp to import (luckily only a page or 2 at a time and only a couple in the
 entire thing), crop and resize, sometimes change RGB into indexed and
 then alpha channel the white-space and plonked on the page.  After a few of
 those people stopped sending me stuff as Pdfs! :))
 Regards from
 Tom :)






 From: David Ronis ro...@ronispc.chem.mcgill.ca
 To: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
 Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org
 Sent: Friday, 5 April 2013, 22:28
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem


 Hi Jay,

 Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
 exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
 drawings that can't be omitted.

 David



 From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
 To: users@global.libreoffice.org
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

 On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:

 I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David


  What OS are you using?

 In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file
 and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not
 know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file
 at once but would need to format the text.

 --
 Jay Lozier
 jsloz...@gmail.com




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
   and how to acquire it ...
  or is this something only for Linux users  ;-)

   The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
these 'glorified-typewriters'  :-)



On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:


 Hi Jay,

 Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
 exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
 drawings that can't be omitted.

 David


 what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself a
 pdf then use pdftk.

 pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.

 take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via pdftk.

 the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find it hard to remember) but at
 the same time very simple.

 Felmon



 From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
 To: users@global.libreoffice.org
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

 On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:

 I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David


  What OS are you using?

 In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file
 and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not
 know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file
 at once but would need to format the text.



 --
 Felmon Davis


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   Gimmicks' library ???  ;-)
   what's in this? and where is it located? and ... ... ... ???

   Just curiously wondering  :)



On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Fernand Vanrie s...@pmgroup.be wrote:

Op 05/04/2013 22:18, David Ronis schreef:

  I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?

 it can surly been automated, import the PDF in draw and then export the
 elements to a writerdoc, you will find a lot of code in the Gimmicks
 library (gettextsgetdrawstrings)

 hope it helps

 Fernand

If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   interesting  ;-(  ;-)

   Now I'm confused ... well, that's not anything new ...
   why should this method work for me and not not for others  ;-)

   Well, the more I learn of these 'glorified typewriters', the less I
seem to know  ;-)



On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:09 PM, David Ronis
ro...@ronispc.chem.mcgill.cawrote:

When I open the PDF file and try to export it, all I see are graphics
 formats (e.g., .bpm, .jpeg, .wfm etc.).  I've tried several and they are
 importable into my document (as a picture), but it seems that only one
 page was exported, which is more complicated than copying and pasting
 from each page of the draw object.

 In the mean time, I've discovered a free conversion site,
 www.zamzar.com, and they were able to convert the PDF files to odt (with
 the images as bitmaps.  Now here's another strange thing:  I can use LO
 to open the converted file and the document looks as I expect; however,
 when I insert the file (insert-file) into my larger document, only the
 text is picked up, leaving blank spaces where the images should go.

 This sounds like a bug, but perhaps there is some setting that controls
 this.  One other thing: when I open the single/converted pdf-odt
 document, the navigator shows draw objects and graphics objects as 0.



 On Sat, 2013-04-06 at 08:36 +0200, Fernand Vanrie wrote:
  Op 05/04/2013 22:18, David Ronis schreef:
   I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import
 many
   documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a
 single
   file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
   (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).
  
   I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
   the document, but that is painful.
  
   Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?
  it can surly been automated, import the PDF in draw and then export the
  elements to a writerdoc, you will find a lot of code in the Gimmicks
  library (gettextsgetdrawstrings)
 
  hope it helps
 
  Fernand
 If not,
   consider this a feature request.
  
   David
  


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Felmon Davis]

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:


  Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
  and how to acquire it ...
 or is this something only for Linux users  ;-)


you can find information about versions for Windows at 
http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/; looks like the 
direct link to the Windows stuff is: 
http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_server-1.45-windows-setup.msi


I find pdftk a god-send.

F.



  The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
these 'glorified-typewriters'  :-)




On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:




Hi Jay,

Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
drawings that can't be omitted.

David



what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself a
pdf then use pdftk.

pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.

take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via pdftk.

the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find it hard to remember) but at
the same time very simple.

Felmon




From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:


I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
(I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
the document, but that is painful.

Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
consider this a feature request.

David


 What OS are you using?


In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file
and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not
know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file
at once but would need to format the text.




--
Felmon Davis





--
Felmon Davis

Ralph's Observation:
It is a mistake to let any mechanical object realise that you
are in a hurry.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   Thank you.



On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:

Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
   and how to acquire it ...
  or is this something only for Linux users  ;-)


 you can find information about versions for Windows at 
 http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/**pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/;
 looks like the direct link to the Windows stuff is: 
 http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/**pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_**
 server-1.45-windows-setup.msihttp://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_server-1.45-windows-setup.msi
 

 I find pdftk a god-send.

 F.



   The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
 these 'glorified-typewriters'  :-)




 On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:



  Hi Jay,

 Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
 exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
 drawings that can't be omitted.

 David


 what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself a
 pdf then use pdftk.

 pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.

 take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via
 pdftk.

 the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find it hard to remember) but at
 the same time very simple.

 Felmon



  From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
 To: users@global.libreoffice.org
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

 On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:

  I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import
 many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a
 single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David


  What OS are you using?


 In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file
 and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not
 know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file
 at once but would need to format the text.



  --
 Felmon Davis



-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Programs with tk (or more usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are for a 
one type of DE for GnuLinux.  Sometimes a G is used instead.  The other main 
type of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.  

Often programs have a back-end or command-line tool that does most of the 
heavy lifting and then different front-ends or Guis are put on for each of 
the 2 main types.  

Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro might have 
2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE.  If you choose the 
'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other DE or get a 
different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'.  Tim at Kracked 
Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so he installs both.  It 
makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can use choose more apps.  

DE = Desktop Environment.  The main 2 are Gnome and KDE.  Most of the rest 
(Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able to use 
front-ends written for one or the other.  

Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles;  
1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really a WM 
(=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE) and Xfce 
apps work well in Gnome.  Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more fully 
functionally if you know what i mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G 
(stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but then that's a pain because the 
app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to reach everyone.  
2.  Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE makes 
sense but why the Qt?  Well, until recently Qt was less streamlined and was a 
lot of the weight in KDE.  Now it is a lot faster and lighter it seems that 
Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not quite enough of it 
for Tim's requirements.  
3.  Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't that make 
it the DE of choice!?  Oddly not.  It's been forked in at least 2 or 3 
different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can also 
run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular amongst 
purists)  

I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going to get 
deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like about GnuLinux 
is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but somehow manage to 
grow and learn from each other or make use of each others achievements and even 
build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)  
Regards from 
Tom :)  






 From: anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
To: Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu 
Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 16:29
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 

       Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
           and how to acquire it ...
              or is this something only for Linux users  ;-)

       The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
these 'glorified-typewriters'  :-)



On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:


 Hi Jay,

 Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
 exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
 drawings that can't be omitted.

 David


 what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself a
 pdf then use pdftk.

 pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.

 take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via pdftk.

 the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find it hard to remember) but at
 the same time very simple.

 Felmon



 From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
 To: users@global.libreoffice.org
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

 On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:

 I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David


  What OS are you using?

 In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file
 and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not
 know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file
 at once but would need to format the text.



 --
 Felmon Davis


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   Thanks for this summation -
   as for now, it's 'clear as mud'  ;-)

   Felmon - I'm studying the page you sent me.



On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

Hi :)
 Programs with tk (or more usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are
 for a one type of DE for GnuLinux.  Sometimes a G is used instead.  The
 other main type of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.

 Often programs have a back-end or command-line tool that does most of
 the heavy lifting and then different front-ends or Guis are put on for
 each of the 2 main types.

 Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro might
 have 2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE.  If you
 choose the 'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other DE
 or get a different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'.
 Tim at Kracked Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so he
 installs both.  It makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can use
 choose more apps.

 DE = Desktop Environment.  The main 2 are Gnome and KDE.  Most of the rest
 (Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able to
 use front-ends written for one or the other.

 Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles;
 1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really
 a WM (=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE) and
 Xfce apps work well in Gnome.  Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more fully
 functionally if you know what i mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G
 (stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but then that's a pain because
 the app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to reach
 everyone.
 2.  Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE
 makes sense but why the Qt?  Well, until recently Qt was less streamlined
 and was a lot of the weight in KDE.  Now it is a lot faster and lighter it
 seems that Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not
 quite enough of it for Tim's requirements.
 3.  Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't that
 make it the DE of choice!?  Oddly not.  It's been forked in at least 2 or 3
 different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can
 also run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular
 amongst purists)

 I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going
 to get deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like about
 GnuLinux is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but
 somehow manage to grow and learn from each other or make use of each others
 achievements and even build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)
 Regards from
 Tom :)


   --
  *From:* anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
 *To:* Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
 *Cc:* users@global.libreoffice.org
 *Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013, 16:29

 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

   Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
   and how to acquire it ...
   or is this something only for Linux users  ;-)

   The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
 these 'glorified-typewriters'  :-)



 On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:
 
 
  Hi Jay,
 
  Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
  exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
  drawings that can't be omitted.
 
  David
 
 
  what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself a
  pdf then use pdftk.
 
  pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.
 
  take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via
 pdftk.
 
  the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find it hard to remember) but at
  the same time very simple.
 
  Felmon
 
 
 
  From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
  To: users@global.libreoffice.org
  Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
  Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400
 
  On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:
 
  I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import
 many
  documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a
 single
  file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
  (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).
 
  I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
  the document, but that is painful.
 
  Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
  consider this a feature request.
 
  David
 
 
   What OS are you using?
 
  In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file
  and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not
  know if this would less or more painful. You would

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[anne-ology]

   No apologies necessary -
   it was just me being 'cute' again  ;-)

   Your response might make sense to me after I figure out what's what
on that link - still studying it.



On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Hi :)
 Yes, sorry about that!  When i started writing it all seemed clear in my
 mind but then somehow i got a bit lost after the 1st sentence and never
 found my way back to solid ground.

 Felmon's answer said much the same i think but was much shorter and
 clearer.  Plus the link too.  Altogether much better!
 Apols and regards from
 Tom :)



   --
  *From:* anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
 *To:* Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk
 *Cc:* Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu; users@global.libreoffice.org 
 users@global.libreoffice.org
 *Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013, 18:23

 *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

   Thanks for this summation -
   as for now, it's 'clear as mud'  ;-)

   Felmon - I'm studying the page you sent me.



 On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk
 wrote:

 Hi :)
  Programs with tk (or more usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are
  for a one type of DE for GnuLinux.  Sometimes a G is used instead.  The
  other main type of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.
 
  Often programs have a back-end or command-line tool that does most of
  the heavy lifting and then different front-ends or Guis are put on
 for
  each of the 2 main types.
 
  Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro
 might
  have 2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE.  If you
  choose the 'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other
 DE
  or get a different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'.
  Tim at Kracked Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so
 he
  installs both.  It makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can
 use
  choose more apps.
 
  DE = Desktop Environment.  The main 2 are Gnome and KDE.  Most of the
 rest
  (Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able
 to
  use front-ends written for one or the other.
 
  Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles;
  1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really
  a WM (=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE)
 and
  Xfce apps work well in Gnome.  Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more fully
  functionally if you know what i mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G
  (stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but then that's a pain
 because
  the app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to reach
  everyone.
  2.  Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE
  makes sense but why the Qt?  Well, until recently Qt was less streamlined
  and was a lot of the weight in KDE.  Now it is a lot faster and lighter
 it
  seems that Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not
  quite enough of it for Tim's requirements.
  3.  Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't
 that
  make it the DE of choice!?  Oddly not.  It's been forked in at least 2
 or 3
  different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can
  also run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular
  amongst purists)
 
  I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going
  to get deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like
 about
  GnuLinux is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but
  somehow manage to grow and learn from each other or make use of each
 others
  achievements and even build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)
  Regards from
  Tom :)
 
 
   --
   *From:* anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
  *To:* Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
  *Cc:* users@global.libreoffice.org
  *Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013, 16:29
 
  *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

 
   Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
   and how to acquire it ...
   or is this something only for Linux users  ;-)
 
   The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
  these 'glorified-typewriters'  :-)
 
 
 
  On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:
 
  On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:
  
  
   Hi Jay,
  
   Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
   exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
   drawings that can't be omitted.
  
   David
  
  
   what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself
 a
   pdf then use pdftk.
  
   pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.
  
   take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via
  pdftk.
  
   the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Felmon Davis]

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013, anne-ology wrote:


  Thanks for this summation -


I wonder what the original question was? I seem to have missed a part 
of the exchange.



  as for now, it's 'clear as mud'  ;-)

  Felmon - I'm studying the page you sent me.


I hope it can be of help; I've only ever used the Linux version but I 
imagine they aren't too different.


F.





On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

Hi :)

Programs with tk (or more usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are
for a one type of DE for GnuLinux.  Sometimes a G is used instead.  The
other main type of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.

Often programs have a back-end or command-line tool that does most of
the heavy lifting and then different front-ends or Guis are put on for
each of the 2 main types.

Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro might
have 2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE.  If you
choose the 'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other DE
or get a different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'.
Tim at Kracked Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so he
installs both.  It makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can use
choose more apps.

DE = Desktop Environment.  The main 2 are Gnome and KDE.  Most of the rest
(Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able to
use front-ends written for one or the other.

Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles;
1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really
a WM (=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE) and
Xfce apps work well in Gnome.  Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more fully
functionally if you know what i mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G
(stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but then that's a pain because
the app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to reach
everyone.
2.  Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE
makes sense but why the Qt?  Well, until recently Qt was less streamlined
and was a lot of the weight in KDE.  Now it is a lot faster and lighter it
seems that Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not
quite enough of it for Tim's requirements.
3.  Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't that
make it the DE of choice!?  Oddly not.  It's been forked in at least 2 or 3
different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can
also run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular
amongst purists)

I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going
to get deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like about
GnuLinux is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but
somehow manage to grow and learn from each other or make use of each others
achievements and even build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)
Regards from
Tom :)


  --
 *From:* anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
*To:* Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu
*Cc:* users@global.libreoffice.org
*Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013, 16:29

*Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

  Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
  and how to acquire it ...
  or is this something only for Linux users  ;-)

  The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
these 'glorified-typewriters'  :-)



On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:




Hi Jay,

Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
drawings that can't be omitted.

David



what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself a
pdf then use pdftk.

pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.

take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via

pdftk.


the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find it hard to remember) but at
the same time very simple.

Felmon




From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:


I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import

many

documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a

single

file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
(I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
the document, but that is painful.

Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
consider this a feature request.

David


 What OS are you using?


In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file

Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Girvin Herr]

Tom,
My 2-cents.

On 04/12/2013 10:15 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
Programs with tk (or more usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are for a one 
type of DE for GnuLinux.  Sometimes a G is used instead.  The other main type 
of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.
tk stands for Tool Kit, so truncating GTK (Gnome Tool Kit) is not 
entirely proper.


Often programs have a back-end or command-line tool that does most of the heavy lifting and 
then different front-ends or Guis are put on for each of the 2 main types.

Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro might have 
2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE.  If you choose the 
'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other DE or get a 
different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'.  Tim at Kracked 
Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so he installs both.  It 
makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can use choose more apps.

DE = Desktop Environment.  The main 2 are Gnome and KDE.  Most of the rest 
(Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able to use 
front-ends written for one or the other.
I have switched to Xfce, since IMHO KDE 4 is still a basket case even 
though it is release 10 (4.10) on my Slackware 14.0 distro! From what I 
am hearing on other forums, I am not alone in switching.  The K people 
had a very stable KDE in 3.5 and they were only up to release 5 (3.5).  
I was sorry to see that stability go for an entire rewrite in KDE 4.


Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles;
1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really a WM 
(=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE) and Xfce 
apps work well in Gnome.
Not so.  From my experience, most of the apps without a K prefix are 
written with GTK, so they can run on the most DEs.  I ran GTK apps on KDE.

Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more fully functionally if you know what i 
mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G (stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but 
then that's a pain because the app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to 
reach everyone.
2.  Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE makes 
sense but why the Qt?  Well, until recently Qt was less streamlined and was a 
lot of the weight in KDE.  Now it is a lot faster and lighter it seems that 
Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not quite enough of it 
for Tim's requirements.
3.  Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't that make 
it the DE of choice!?  Oddly not.  It's been forked in at least 2 or 3 
different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can also 
run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular amongst 
purists)
KDE is and has been, built on the QT libraries, so the QT is redundant.  
K* can assume QT.  Most if not all of the other DEs are built on the GTK 
libraries.  In my experience, there are many more applications built on 
GTK than QT.  Apps built on GTK will run on KDE, however, I am not sure 
apps built for KDE will run on all GTK DEs.  I know for a fact that KDE 
apps will run well on Xfce, I am doing so.  In fact, I was amazed at how 
well they do run.  The QT library was proprietary at one time 
(Trolltech).  I don't know if the current version is.  GTK is open 
source (GNU) licensed.


I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going to get 
deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like about GnuLinux 
is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but somehow manage to 
grow and learn from each other or make use of each others achievements and even 
build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)
Regards from
Tom :)


Yours in enlightenment.
Girvin Herr


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)  
Also 2 things;  

1.  It might be worth uploading your Pdfs to Google-docs and the opening them 
with Google-docs to save as Odt.  Someone here recently said that seemed to 
solve all their problems with Pdfs so it would be interesting to see if yours 
work too.  

2.  if you right-click on images in a Pdf it generally allows you to Save 
Graphic.  Of course this way you have to place them again.  

3.  If you just copypaste text straight out of the Pdf and into a document as 
Unformatted text and then apply styles it might end up with a much more 
consistent document but again you would have to follow 2 above in order to get 
all the pictures/photos/logos/images back in.  

Good luck and regards from 
Tom :)








 From: Girvin R. Herr girvin.h...@sbcglobal.net
To: david.ro...@mcgill.ca 
Cc: Fernand Vanrie s...@pmgroup.be; users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Sunday, 7 April 2013, 21:48
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 
David,
LibreOffice allows graphics to have placeholders in case rendering such 
takes a lot of time when scrolling.  Maybe yours are turned off.  Try  
Tools - Options - LibreOffice Writer - View
Under Display, there should be a checkbox titled Graphics and 
objects.  Make sure this is checked.
Hope this helps.
Girvin Herr


David Ronis wrote:
 When I open the PDF file and try to export it, all I see are graphics
 formats (e.g., .bpm, .jpeg, .wfm etc.).  I've tried several and they are
 importable into my document (as a picture), but it seems that only one
 page was exported, which is more complicated than copying and pasting
 from each page of the draw object.

 In the mean time, I've discovered a free conversion site,
 www.zamzar.com, and they were able to convert the PDF files to odt (with
 the images as bitmaps.  Now here's another strange thing:  I can use LO
 to open the converted file and the document looks as I expect; however,
 when I insert the file (insert-file) into my larger document, only the
 text is picked up, leaving blank spaces where the images should go.

 This sounds like a bug, but perhaps there is some setting that controls
 this.  One other thing: when I open the single/converted pdf-odt
 document, the navigator shows draw objects and graphics objects as 0.



 On Sat, 2013-04-06 at 08:36 +0200, Fernand Vanrie wrote:
  
 Op 05/04/2013 22:18, David Ronis schreef:
    
 I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?
      
 it can surly been automated, import the PDF in draw and then export the 
 elements to a writerdoc, you will find a lot of code in the Gimmicks 
 library (gettextsgetdrawstrings)

 hope it helps

 Fernand
    
   If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David


      
    

  

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Girvin R. Herr]

David,
LibreOffice allows graphics to have placeholders in case rendering such 
takes a lot of time when scrolling.  Maybe yours are turned off.  Try  
Tools - Options - LibreOffice Writer - View
Under Display, there should be a checkbox titled Graphics and 
objects.  Make sure this is checked.

Hope this helps.
Girvin Herr


David Ronis wrote:

When I open the PDF file and try to export it, all I see are graphics
formats (e.g., .bpm, .jpeg, .wfm etc.).  I've tried several and they are
importable into my document (as a picture), but it seems that only one
page was exported, which is more complicated than copying and pasting
from each page of the draw object.

In the mean time, I've discovered a free conversion site,
www.zamzar.com, and they were able to convert the PDF files to odt (with
the images as bitmaps.  Now here's another strange thing:  I can use LO
to open the converted file and the document looks as I expect; however,
when I insert the file (insert-file) into my larger document, only the
text is picked up, leaving blank spaces where the images should go.

This sounds like a bug, but perhaps there is some setting that controls
this.  One other thing: when I open the single/converted pdf-odt
document, the navigator shows draw objects and graphics objects as 0.



On Sat, 2013-04-06 at 08:36 +0200, Fernand Vanrie wrote:
  

Op 05/04/2013 22:18, David Ronis schreef:


I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
(I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
the document, but that is painful.

Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?
  
it can surly been automated, import the PDF in draw and then export the 
elements to a writerdoc, you will find a lot of code in the Gimmicks 
library (gettextsgetdrawstrings)


hope it helps

Fernand


  If not,
consider this a feature request.

David


  



  


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Fernand Vanrie]

Op 05/04/2013 22:18, David Ronis schreef:

I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
(I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
the document, but that is painful.

Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?
it can surly been automated, import the PDF in draw and then export the 
elements to a writerdoc, you will find a lot of code in the Gimmicks 
library (gettextsgetdrawstrings)


hope it helps

Fernand

  If not,
consider this a feature request.

David





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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Steve Edmonds]

On 2013-04-07 09:25, Doug wrote:

On 04/06/2013 01:22 AM, Steve Edmonds wrote:

Hi.
I just tried an interesting thing.
Uploaded a PDF with images to google drive. Right clicked the PDF and 
open with google docs. Then the PDF was converted to a google doc and 
I could download the PDF as an odt and edit it.


Steve 

Information please: what is a google drive?

--doug


Hi.
Google keeps changing the name of things.
When you get a gmail account you have a thing also called google docs 
which might now be called google drive.
When you sign into your gmail account it is up the top google navigation 
bar.

Steve

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Steve Edmonds]

But I still have 5GB for free, and that doesn't include documents 
converted to google docs which are free and not counted in your quota.

Steve

On 2013-04-07 10:06, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
It's a Cloud storage space provided by Google,  Generally with these Cloud 
spaces they let you have just enough for free that you get hooked into using it 
which tempts you into paying for a more useful size.
Regards from
Tom :)







From: Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Saturday, 6 April 2013, 22:25
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

On 04/06/2013 01:22 AM, Steve Edmonds wrote:

Hi.
I just tried an interesting thing.
Uploaded a PDF with images to google drive. Right clicked the PDF and open with 
google docs. Then the PDF was converted to a google doc and I could download 
the PDF as an odt and edit it.

Steve

Information please: what is a google drive?

--doug

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Ahh, you can use google-docs without having a gmail account.  I can login using 
my yahoo account.  Gmail obviously integrates it better to make it easier to 
use.  I think there is a small amount of space just from using google-docs.  I 
think google-drive is an extra amount of space you can use.  

I get 5Gb from Ubuntu One but that doesn't seem to have some of the clever 
functionality google's offerings have but on the other hand it automatically 
syncs with my Ubuntu machine at home and then again with my Ubuntu machine at 
work.  I think google's syncs with google phones and things?   
Regards from
Tom :)  






 From: Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.com
To: Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net 
Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Saturday, 6 April 2013, 23:28
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 

On 2013-04-07 09:25, Doug wrote:
 On 04/06/2013 01:22 AM, Steve Edmonds wrote:
 Hi.
 I just tried an interesting thing.
 Uploaded a PDF with images to google drive. Right clicked the PDF and open 
 with google docs. Then the PDF was converted to a google doc and I could 
 download the PDF as an odt and edit it.
 
 Steve 
 Information please: what is a google drive?
 
 --doug
 
Hi.
Google keeps changing the name of things.
When you get a gmail account you have a thing also called google docs which 
might now be called google drive.
When you sign into your gmail account it is up the top google navigation bar.
Steve

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[David Ronis]

When I open the PDF file and try to export it, all I see are graphics
formats (e.g., .bpm, .jpeg, .wfm etc.).  I've tried several and they are
importable into my document (as a picture), but it seems that only one
page was exported, which is more complicated than copying and pasting
from each page of the draw object.

In the mean time, I've discovered a free conversion site,
www.zamzar.com, and they were able to convert the PDF files to odt (with
the images as bitmaps.  Now here's another strange thing:  I can use LO
to open the converted file and the document looks as I expect; however,
when I insert the file (insert-file) into my larger document, only the
text is picked up, leaving blank spaces where the images should go.

This sounds like a bug, but perhaps there is some setting that controls
this.  One other thing: when I open the single/converted pdf-odt
document, the navigator shows draw objects and graphics objects as 0.



On Sat, 2013-04-06 at 08:36 +0200, Fernand Vanrie wrote:
 Op 05/04/2013 22:18, David Ronis schreef:
  I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
  documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
  file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
  (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).
 
  I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
  the document, but that is painful.
 
  Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?
 it can surly been automated, import the PDF in draw and then export the 
 elements to a writerdoc, you will find a lot of code in the Gimmicks 
 library (gettextsgetdrawstrings)
 
 hope it helps
 
 Fernand
If not,
  consider this a feature request.
 
  David
 
 
 
 

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[David Ronis]

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
drawings that can't be omitted.

David


-Original Message-
From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:
 I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David


What OS are you using?

In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file 
and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not 
know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file 
at once but would need to format the text.

-- 
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 04/05/2013 05:18 PM, Jay Lozier wrote:

On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:

I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
(I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
the document, but that is painful.

Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
consider this a feature request.

David



What OS are you using?

In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text 
file and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do 
not know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire 
file at once but would need to format the text.




The most painless option is find a PDF to .doc [.odt] conversion 
package. I know that there are some low costing package that do this, 
but I would like to see a free one somewhere.


The large project and many documents seem to me that if the number 
is large enough, you would want to have an auto-conversion package for 
the PDF documents.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I tend to find importing as plain text and then applying styles saves me hours 
and hours.  Before doing that people's mad formatting would drive me nuts.  

I've managed to stop them sending me Pdfs too.  Mostly it was the argument 
about being consistent through-out the newsletter but it also helped to 
respect people's aims rather than their results and the positive comments from 
readers didn't hurt.  It depends how slavish you have to be.  This answer (to 
stand up for yourself) may not help.  

Regards from
Tom :)  







 From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Friday, 5 April 2013, 22:18
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 
On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:
 I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David


What OS are you using?

In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file 
and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not 
know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file 
at once but would need to format the text.

-- 
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Ouch!  Single images are ok as you can right-click and save them or even just 
drag them out of the Pdf sometimes but if it's tons of logos or overlapping 
images then it can be a total Pita.  My cheating way was to use Gimp to import 
(luckily only a page or 2 at a time and only a couple in the entire thing), 
crop and resize, sometimes change RGB into indexed and then alpha channel the 
white-space and plonked on the page.  After a few of those people stopped 
sending me stuff as Pdfs! :))
Regards from
Tom :)  






 From: David Ronis ro...@ronispc.chem.mcgill.ca
To: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com 
Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Sent: Friday, 5 April 2013, 22:28
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
 

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
drawings that can't be omitted.

David


-Original Message-
From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:
 I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
 documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
 file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
 (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

 I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
 the document, but that is painful.

 Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
 consider this a feature request.

 David


What OS are you using?

In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file 
and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not 
know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file 
at once but would need to format the text.

-- 
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

[Felmon Davis]

On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, David Ronis wrote:



Hi Jay,

Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
drawings that can't be omitted.

David


what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself 
a pdf then use pdftk.


pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.

take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via 
pdftk.


the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find it hard to remember) but 
at the same time very simple.


Felmon



-Original Message-
From: Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400

On 04/05/2013 04:18 PM, David Ronis wrote:

I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import many
documents from my colleagues, some in word or PDF formats, into a single
file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert-File... on a PDF file
(I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).

I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
the document, but that is painful.

Is there a way to make File-Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
consider this a feature request.

David



What OS are you using?

In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file
and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not
know if this would less or more painful. You would have the entire file
at once but would need to format the text.




--
Felmon Davis

He who gives promptly gives twice.  -- Miguel de Cervantes

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