Re: [Vo]:are smartlists working? vortex-L test
Still works here. > > On Aug 15, 2019 at 8:32 PM, William Beatywrote: > > > test (( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))) William J. > Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, > WA 206-762-3818 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci >
[Vo]:Elon Musk HyperLoop
This thing might not be that important or ever be built etc., but I did like the thought process revealed by the design. He seeks niches or exclusions in otherwise impossible general characterizations of a problem, and unique solutions emerge. The not-fully-evacuated tube is probably the primary example. Overall technically pretty interesting. But as a practical matter, I think a cramped windowless pod pulling .5g here and there in addition to smaller frequency swaying amounts to The Last Train to York-ville for most non-fighter pilot citizens. R.
RE: [Vo]:Meteorite with diatoms in Polonnaruwa , Sri Lanka
Jones Beene wrote: Why is skepticism running high? Typical knee-jerk reaction probably. No doubt, but also maybe because the structure of the diatom objects aren't the slightest bit ambiguous, unlike other previous cell-like objects seen in meteorites. Also they've gone further now and claimed that a sample contained water and live cells (link below), so it's starting to sound more like contamination from rain or groundwater. I hope this gets resolved definitively. Re ACC, I'm sure he'd have loved this happening right in his own back yard. - Rick From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:59 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Meteorite with diatoms in Polonnaruwa , Sri Lanka Why is skepticism running high? Typical knee-jerk reaction probably. With those fabulous images, the evidence for diatoms looks pretty solid. The red rain sounds like a SciFi plot. that would cause some doubt - but not those images. Too bad ACC is not around to comment. From: Rick Monteverde You may have heard of this already, and it involves the usual suspects (Wickramasinghe). Skepticism running very high on it as I would have expected. But hey, that's some photo. If it is a meteorite and is not ground contamination, then Wow, and don't fall asleep outside with your mouth open! First publication: http://www.buckingham.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Polonnaruwa-meteorite .pdf Additional material: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF_TOtgZoS0 http://journalofcosmology.com/JOC21/Polonn2.pdf http://www.newsfirst.lk/news1st/node/19982 - Rick
RE: [Vo]:Conjunction of Meaningfully Parallel Events
Years ago one afternoon, I was at a stop sign and the Moody Blues were on the radio, singing the words Timothy Leary's dead. Oh no, he's outside, looking in. At that moment, I looked over to the sidewalk to see a white haired gentleman looking back at us who looked kind of familiar. Yes, it really was him, in town with that Watergate guy to do their debate show at a venue just a couple of blocks away. But wait, here's the kicker. As we pulled away from the stop sign, my girlfriend, who was unaware of any of this, spontaneously asked: What does synchronicity mean? Seriously, I have no doubt whatsoever that some days the Universe is out to get me. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 11:53 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Conjunction of Meaningfully Parallel Events or CMPE. The classic case is Carl Jung's scarab story where a patient is telling him about a dream in which she's given a gold scarab. As she does, a gold scarab beetle is tapping at the window of Jung's office. So there you have two events, foretelling the dream, the appearance of the scarab, and they both share one striking parallel which is a golden scarab. Probably more than you want to know: http://www.skeptiko.com/robert-perry-on-the-science-of-synchronicity/ Unless we are experiencing a gateway opening: http://copycateffect.blogspot.mx/2012/07/aurora-synchro.html Caution: read these at your own risk. T
RE: [Vo]:Equivalence breaks down.
The gravity from mass always has a component of divergence, but linear acceleration doesn't. Am I correct to think that is one of the reasons equivalent is used instead of identical? R. -Original Message- From: itsat...@gmail.com [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Hollins Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:57 AM To: vortex-l Subject: [Vo]:Equivalence breaks down. http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25331/ The equivalence principle is one of the more fascinating ideas in modern science. It asserts that gravitational mass and inertial mass are identical. Einstein put it like this: the gravitational force we experience on Earth is identical to the force we would experience were we sitting in a spaceship accelerating at 1g. Newton might have said that the m in F=ma is the same as the ms in F=Gm1m2/r^2.
RE: [Vo]:Magnetic alignment in grazing and resting cattle and deer
Maybe they just don't like the sun in their face? -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson [mailto:orionwo...@charter.net] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 3:23 AM To: Vortex Subject: [Vo]:Magnetic alignment in grazing and resting cattle and deer Apparently it's true! http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2008/08/22/0803650105 Abstract We demonstrate by means of simple, noninvasive methods (analysis of satellite images, field observations, and measuring deer beds in snow) that domestic cattle (n = 8,510 in 308 pastures) across the globe, and grazing and resting red and roe deer (n = 2,974 at 241 localities), align their body axes in roughly a north-south direction. Direct observations of roe deer revealed that animals orient their heads northward when grazing or resting. Amazingly, this ubiquitous phenomenon does not seem to have been noticed by herdsmen, ranchers, or hunters. Because wind and light conditions could be excluded as a common denominator determining the body axis orientation, magnetic alignment is the most parsimonious explanation. To test the hypothesis that cattle orient their body axes along the field lines of the Earth's magnetic field, we analyzed the body orientation of cattle from localities with high magnetic declination. Here, magnetic north was a better predictor than geographic north. This study reveals the magnetic alignment in large mammals based on statistically sufficient sample sizes. Our findings open horizons for the study of magnetoreception in general and are of potential significance for applied ethology (husbandry, animal welfare). They challenge neuroscientists and biophysics to explain the proximate mechanisms. --- Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Vector vortex coronagraph breakthrough on exoplanet observations
I don't know how it works, but I like the name, and I like what it does: 2 meter class telescopes getting not just little speckly dots next to the parent star, but big fat planet signals with the star zeroed out completely. Not going to see continents any time soon, but probably fine for spectroscopy as far as I know. Said to be able to image earth-sized planets out to 30 LY. I was wondering if a secondary coronagraph can be rigged against the light from the larger planets to catch moons. http://www.universetoday.com/2010/04/15/could-an-amateur-astronomer-snap-a-p icture-of-an-exoplanet/ - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI
RE: [Vo]:The BLOOM BOX
Don't forget the electric car in the garage. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 9:12 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:The BLOOM BOX http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/411/ I think Bloom Energy is looking to install 100 Kilowatt power units in everyone's houses. These will be flex-fuel, but likely running mostly on natural gas. They will also probably produce heat, and cooling, as well as power, making the devices roughly 85% efficient (thus generating two times less greenhouse gas emissions than a power plant per unit of power used.) Not very geeky considering that the mean electric power consumption for an average house is 1 kW. A 10 kW unit should be adequate. Terry
RE: [Vo]:The BLOOM BOX
The thing's huge! And add the fuel tank too. Not practical for a car. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 9:41 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:The BLOOM BOX On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Rick Monteverde r...@highsurf.com wrote: Don't forget the electric car in the garage. Nope. That's where I put the blooming Bloombox. The car needs about 20 hp to take me to work. That's about 30 kWh both ways. Considering I sleep with the lights off, I should be able to top it off before work. It's the HVAC that will be the kicker. I foresee a business in residential load management centers.
RE: [Vo]:Pycno-pockets?
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax ... maybe those bacteria are smarter than we think. Interesting statement, reflecting a notion that's starting to catch on from different disciplines and directions. That would also explain the coincidence of natural gas (or oil, if that's the case) and helium. Nice hook to astrobiology too - possible implications for remote detection methods? Link below to a purely chemical example from a few years ago, but not methane. I'm tired of methane.g http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2843-acidic-clouds-of-venus-could-harb our-life.html R.
RE: [Vo]:Pycno-pockets?
Jones Beene: ... there are zillions of moons out there to colonize Of course there are a few right here in our own neighborhood that are decent candidates for deep bio activity. And aside from that one where we are to attempt no landing..., we wouldn't have to fight off those annoying blue people just to have a look. - R.
RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
Horace - The object was low in the SSW about an hour after sunset. Still working on finding out the viewing angle and umbra position, but the max sight angle was around 22 degrees. Came up vertically from the horizon out of the SSW, turned towards the west and moved parallel to the horizon for a while, then back down towards the SW as it darkened and winked out. I'm assuming there that the loss of light was due to a change of attitude of the object's reflective surface since it appeared at the end to have been moving towards more sunlight. I looked up ISS orbits and watched it make a good overhead pass the other night at about 20 minutes later than the UFO sighting for a comparable view. Apparent speed through the sky was around the same or a bit faster, and the pale yellow color changed to the orange, then reddish orange color as the ISS approached the umbra and went out, at the end it was similar in color to the UFO. The UFO was much brighter though, and had the reddish orange color through most of its flight, as opposed to the ISS showing that color only for the last couple of seconds of its path. The UFO seemed a little more yellow right at first as it was rising up in the sky and was at its brightest. Up would be coming from the SSW, away from the sunset and towards shadow. The sunset that day was more colorful too, so it may have contributed to the orange color over a wider altitude range. I would say that after a fresh look at the ISS, the UFO was probably a rather large object. It was substantially brighter than I've ever seen the ISS, and the ISS, now completed and in full sail, is pretty spectacular. R. From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheff...@mtaonline.net] Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 10:32 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting? I wrote: If the object was ever in a direction approximately due north or south of you, i.e. on a line perpendicular to the sunset location, then the altitude h I provided fairly closely applies to the object for that time t in the table. If it was mainly east or west then another calculation is needed. I would say anything above 100,000 feet, or 18.9 miles, was probably not a military jet, and certainly not a passenger jet. That altitude h corresponds to about 22 minutes after surface darkness - to whatever degree such darkness needs to be defined. From experience there, I know it gets dark pretty fast in Hawaii after sunset - especially compared to here - where sunsets can take a very long time. 8^) If you observed the object an hour after sunset then I'd say it was well past the 22 minutes after darkness mark. A general compass direction thus may be sufficient information for a definitive answer. That far after sunset, an hour, taken even alone, is a pretty strong indication it was not an airplane. I overlooked the fact that if the object were to the east of you then the umbra plane would be even higher. It is only when the object was to the west of you that there can be any doubt at all. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]:Traffic accident deaths in Japan hit 57-year low
The tech from the link below interests me. I'd like to see something like that tied to vehicle tax fees for pay as you drive efficiency. Eventually this could evolve into an aviation-style control system like a TCA for heavily used corridors during peak use for a more fair distribution of taxes and fees, an incentive to reduce congestion, reduce accidents, and perhaps the ability to fine tune traffic flow on the fly. I don't particularly care for the little fiberglass bubble cars, but the Minority Report freeway is an eventual must-have. An e-highway system might be able to pay for itself along the way, whereas these muni train fiascos are unaffordable, and inappropriate on many levels. They're ramming one down our throats here (Oahu) with a 6++ billion price tag, and we can't even pay to keep our kids in school now even though wealready pay some of the highest taxes in the country. http://insurancetech.com/business-intelligence/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=2 22002974 R. From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 7:00 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Traffic accident deaths in Japan hit 57-year low Okay, I found the graph. The article is in Japanese but the graph has Western dates, from 1950 to 2009 (as opposed to the Japanese date system): http://mainichi.jp/select/jiken/news/20100103km040014000c.html There was a slight increase in the late 1980s. The decline after 1992 is attributed to increased severity and enforcement of the drunken driving laws and reckless driving laws, which seems likely to me. The total number of accidents was 736,160 (29,987 fewer than 2008), with 908,874 people injured. Drunken driving caused 264 fatalities, compared the peak of 1,161 in 2000. (They only began recording this category separately around 1992.) In 1970 they launched the first war against traffic accidents mainly with improvements to roads and traffic signals (it says here) but also with seat belt laws. The second war to reduce accidents began in 1988. Other news articles on this subject say that roughly half of the fatalities in 2009 were attributed to elderly drivers. The minimum age for a driver's license in Japan is 18, and most people do not drive before age 20, so accidents by young drivers and teenagers are rarer than in the U.S. Driver education courses and the test you have to pass to get a license are much more strict, and expensive, than in the U.S. The fatality rate is lower per capita than the U.S. I expect because people drive less, and speeds are lower. Pedestrian fatalities used to be higher per capita than the U.S., because urban roads are crowded and many do not have sidewalks. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Traffic accident deaths in Japan hit 57-year low
Jed wrote: That's invasive . As I understand it, privacy is currently the biggest knock so far against these kinds of schemes. Technically they are very doable now and for a small fraction of rail costs for a given urban path. They will supposedly know when and where you were if the data is personally identifiable, which in the end it must be for billing purposes. Then of course there's fears of hacking, etc. - the usual for life in the (computer) clouds. But these kinds of challenges can be met given serious motivation and effort. Health care, terrorism, transportation, taxes user fees - tech is taking us down the road to pervasive monitoring whether we like it or not. Libertarian/conservative though I am, yet I think trading some privacy in return for freedom, while intrinsically undesirable, is actually not too bad a trade these days where the benefits are significant. But trading freedom for security is still to be avoided if at all possible. I think some people confuse privacy with general freedom. For instance I couldn't care less about some doofus TSA employee seeing me in a highly detailed body scanner if it means I remain free travel by air while minimizing terror threats. Might bother some celebrities a bit. Let 'em go by boat then. It's not like their pictures aren't on the internet already. - R. From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 10:54 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Traffic accident deaths in Japan hit 57-year low From the article Rick Monteverde linked to: MyRate is designed for safe drivers, comments Richard Hutchinson, Progressive's MyRate general manager. It's for people who drive fewer miles than average, at low-risk times of day and keep alert for others on the road. They don't make fast lane changes or follow too closely behind other drivers so they don't have to over-react or slam on the brakes. Drivers who choose to sign up for MyRate receive a device that plugs into a port in their car and measures how, how much and when the car is being driven. . . . That's invasive, but I like it! I'd go for it, if it were available in Atlanta, and if it works with a 16-year-old Geo Metro. I'd like to see something like that tied to vehicle tax fees for pay as you drive efficiency. Eventually this could evolve into an aviation-style control system like a TCA for heavily used corridors during peak use for a more fair distribution of taxes and fees, an incentive to reduce congestion, reduce accidents, and perhaps the ability to fine tune traffic flow on the fly. Good ideas, all. In Japan they are pushing vigorously for more automated driving, with things like radar and accident warning systems, and intelligent computers that warn when pedestrians or other cars may be crossing ahead. This is often featured on the nightly news. I do not think they have any near-term plans for fully automated highways, but RD in that direction is proceeding in both the U.S. and Japan. On one hand, it looks to me as if these gadgets they intend to install soon will cost a fortune. On the other hand, they had 736,160 accidents and 908,874 people injured in Japan -- as noted in the second article I cited. That must have cost billions of dollars. Reducing that by even a modest percent would save a lot of money and anguish. It is like the cost of emergency RD for the H1N1 vaccine. Imagine how many millions of hours of misery and lost work-hours that prevented! The dollar cost of automobile accidents in the U.S. is roughly $230 billion in hospital bills alone. The cost in human lives is ~40,000 per year, or roughly as much as much as the Korean war, repeated every year, for the last 50 years. Throwing $100 billion per year at the problem to reduce this toll would be well worth it. U.S. automobile fatality rates (fatalities per passenger mile) have declined, but I do not think they have fallen as much as in Japan. Per 100 million vehicle miles, rates fell from 1.73 to 1.28 between 1994 and 2008 (14 years). See: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year The absolute number of people killed per year has fallen from a peak at around 50,000 in 1979 to 40,000 today. Compared to population and total driving this is a 36% decline. That is impressive, but not as impressive as the 70% decline in Japan since their peak in 1970. Their population has not increased significantly since 1980, so this 70% decline is also per capita and probably pretty close to the decline per passenger mile. To some extent, with modern automobiles, we trade off death in accidents for both injuries and for the destruction of the vehicle. That is to say, we have fewer deaths but more people are gravely injured, with multiple fractures of the legs and so on. Air bags save their lives but they end up in the hospital for long periods. Also, automobiles absorb
RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
We don't get many sightings out here, we're a distinct dull spot on the UFO observation map. This is the my first sighting spanning 40 years here of something having a real chance of being anomalous. By coincidence we have the chief of state vacationing here, and some of the more conventional rings of security are easily seen. The ships offshore, military flights in patterns not usually flown, etc. I've read of accounts and seen the videos of anomalous things lurking on the periphery of military operations, but it's highly speculative that it might have had anything to do with the sighting. I still have to run the numbers, and I wanted to get outside to re-check and identify the stars near its path, but it was overcast last night. I did find some useful astronomy websites, found out that the upper limb of the sun (including that atmospheric distortion margin) was 13.84 degrees below the horizon at the time, a bit after official marine twilight (pretty dark). R. -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson [mailto:orionwo...@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:00 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting? From: Terry Blanton Sounds like a Fastwalker. Aurora? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:The Norway Spiral
More like torsion on a powerful weapon, but hey - at least he was right about that 19.5 degree latitude for planetary swirls, volcanoes, sunspots, etc. R. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:14 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:The Norway Spiral Was not a stray rocket test. It was a test of a powerful torsion weapon. Or so says Hoagland: http://www.enterprisemission.com/Norway-Message.htm Terry
RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
Horace - My sighting wasn't just after sunset, it was just after nightfall - total darkness. There was just a vague hint of fading light on the horizon, but the sky surrounding the object, which was relatively low in the southwest, was already black. I did find something on the after-sunset atmospheric distortion - they say add 6 arc minutes to the apparent semidiameter of the sun. I'll try to muddle through your figures in a little while. I sure appreciate the help, thanks. - R. From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheff...@mtaonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:08 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting? In case there is any doubt, the following is my final answer - unless of course I find other mistakes! 8^) On Dec 29, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Horace Heffner wrote: Hi Rick, Coincidentally, I saw something similar yesterday (Dec 28, 2009) around noon AKST, (about 11 orbits later) west of Palmer AK, but heading SW. It was one small finger width at arms length above the horizon. It had a periodic (about 10 second) flash to it, so I assumed it might be a booster, but strange it was heading SW, not SE or NE, or just S. Of course a U-turn is not a typical satellite maneuver, nor did I see that! The altitude h to the directly overhead sun midline is given by: h = r_earth * ( SQRT(1 + sin^2 theta) -1) Given time after sunset t we have: theta = (t/(8.64x10^4 s))*(2*Pi) radians = (t/(1440 min))*(2*Pi) radians Earth radius, r_earth, at Hawaii is about 3951 mi. Here are some numbers: t (min) theta (radians) h (miles) 1 0.00436331944 0.03760073165 5 0.02181659722 0.93976780755 100.04363319444 3.75594358 200.08726638889 14.973936498 300.13089958333 33.506081478 600.26179916667 130.1553394 900.39269875 279.3533269 Since the above is time after total sunset, you don't have to correct for the angular width of the sun. However, even total sunset is not good enough to black out an object though, due to light diffraction. Clearly not enough time, i.e. shortly after sunset, passed to rule out an airplane. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]:Personal:Little help with UFO sighting?
Sunset at my location in Honolulu that day was 5:59 PM, sighting was at 6:58 PM. I'll look for a star chart to get the sighting angle for the object. - R.
[Vo]:Little help with UFO sighting?
Saw an orange fire colored UFO last night just after nightfall. The path was that of an object flying in a curved path at high altitude (a u-turn, basically), definitely not a satellite, and a bit brighter than a good space station sighting. Even through 8x binoculars it appeared as a point source. The time of day, the sighting angle, and the variable characteristics of the light over the two minutes or so the object was visible suggests it was reflected light from the setting sun on the lower surface of a solid object, but given that the sky was almost completely dark at my location at that point, my guess is that its altitude could have been above the atmosphere. I've seen conventional aircraft reflecting sunset's light after local sunset, and though the appearance was similar, in those cases it was much closer to sunset and sky was still quite light. Once it gets dark, I think such reflections tend to be in satellite territory. Anyway, since I can find the sight angle because of its passage near identifiable stars, the time, and my location on that date, it should be possible to calculate the earth's shadow line from the setting sun and see where my sight line crosses it. That would tell me if it was just an airplane at very high altitude, or something maneuvering up a bit higher than conventional aircraft can reach. Anybody have an idea how I would go about that (umbra?) line? Thanks, - Rick
RE: [Vo]:The discovery of Hydra-Jinn
I can't wait until the detection threshold comes down - like to the level of moons around these big planets. Bet that's where the action is as long as the system is in the liquid water zone. R.
RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Nick Palmer uploads video on Climategate
Michael - Thanks for the link. Hardly anything smells as bad to a greenie liberal these days as an oil company lobbyist, but the old saying: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I can appreciate anyone helping to reveal or hold forth against the AGW hoax and the accompanying fraud being perpetrated against us even if their contribution is discredited in many people's eyes because of their industrial or political affiliations. I endorse the changes Cooney made to the documents, as they were appropriate and truthful corrections to lies and distortions such as may be (occurring) inserted in place of the incorrect is (occurring). TMK Cooney and the Bush administration did not actually suppress the reports or attempt to hijack science like these climate hoaxers are doing and has been recently revealed, but I wish they had since this stuff is completely fraudulent to begin with. Remember too that this was for an administration based policy, and is subject to whatever the administration wants to say or not - it's a political prerogative in the first place. All administrations, current included, have the right to control what they themselves say or release, and should continue to have it. GW may be (has been?) happening, but there is no scientific basis to AGW claims, although I believe people should have the general freedom to publish for either one, or just about anything else for that matter in the proper venue. That's one of the main points arising from climategate, but it's not the only one, despite attempts by hoaxers and true believers to spinimize the damage. R.
RE: [Vo]:Crematorium to use burning bodies to generate electricity
Terry: I sure you remember the ending to this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Boy_and_His_Dog One of my favorites. I heard from the media back in around 1980 that J. Falwell was a really bad guy. No internet back then. He had a rally at the state capitol here and I lived nearby, so I went down to watch him. Do you remember from the movie the Michaels - androids with smiles stuck on their faces? Falwell had several Michaels, and there was a scene almost out of the movie when Falwell called someone out of the crowd he had previously met to come up onto the stage, a slightly built Filipino man. The Michaels apparently didn't get the memo, and as he climbed up the stairs to the stage one of them picked the poor little guy up in the air and looked he was about to give him some sort of farm accident (pop his head like a zit) with Falwell struggling from behind to get the Michael's attention and release his victim. Through the whole thing the sanctimonious smile on the Michael's face never changed! In the movie the Dear Leader asked his security guy or engineer to see about getting those smiles fixed, and so it seems he never did. Although the incident was funny and amazing at the time, I believe that movie was made some years before Falwell arose to notoriety but the similarities between Falwell and the crazy religious dictator with his killer robots were horrifying. I left the rally that day with the same feeling in my stomach I got swimming in dark water near a harbor entrance and seeing a fin cutting water towards me that was so big at first I mistook it for a submarine conning tower. Glad it all worked out: the giant shark just wanted the fish guts washed off deck by a returning sampan, and Falwell has since diminished to nothing. And ... wait for it...at least the shark had good taste!* R. (*Spoiler alert: paraphrasing the last line from the movie)
RE: [Vo]:Crematorium to use burning bodies to generate electricity
Terry - Back in the day I'd go large. Now I hide from them along with the other sane folks. - R. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Crematorium to use burning bodies to generate electricity I haven't seen it . . . yet; but, I'll put it in my Netflix queue. What are you doing here with all those 50 ft. curls on the islands?!? Don't body surf 50 footers? :-) Terry
RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Nick Palmer uploads video on Climategate
Jed Wrote: I expect the researchers are guilty of suppressing opposing points of view through the peer-review system, but the other accusations are silly. Yeah, a real minor thing, that. Nick Palmer has zero credibility on this particular issue as he has openly advocated on this forum that it should be ILLEGAL to voice opposition to the theories of global warming! Suck on that, you intellectually inferior First Amendment huggers. To actually achieve that would be the ultimate expression of the inherently vicious suppressive intent of such people, the nature of which has been exposed not only by those emails, but right here as well by Mr. Palmer's previous comments. Just say No to Democracy and Diversity should be their slogan. I've also noted a corresponding increase in the calls to criminalize opposition to the current US administration's policies as well. There must not be the slightest doubt that such laws, if they ever are implemented in the US, will end in tears and probably bloodshed, whether it's the left or the right who succeeds in that goal. This is a very serious matter, and not all the frogs in this pot are oblivious to the rising temperature of the water (NPI). Now I doubt that those advocating and attempting such suppression in either the GW or political categories will ultimately be successful, I think too many people see it for what it is. But it will happen without active participation and effort by those who oppose such shenanigans. Our most grievous error would be believing that it can't happen here: it is happening now. You leave it to a few who find themselves virtually unopposed in writing their own agenda, and tyranny happens - it's human nature. That's why we have systems with checks and balances, and that's why you see those opposed to democracy and diversity of ideas constantly engaged in an effort to dismantle those very checks and balances. They know exactly what stands in the way of their goals. - R.
RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Nick Palmer uploads video on Climategate
Stephen wrote: ... I can't help but think any assertion that expressing any particular belief should be ILLEGAL [in the United States] must be nothing more than a personal expression of frustration, or possibly a straw man set up to start an argument. ... I think what NP was referring to was for the UK, and he said or implied that there is precedence for such a thing there and that he was basically optimistic that it could happen. We First Amendment huggers (believers) here in the US tend to react less favorably to such moves than do the poor blighted furriners in Europe who have demonstrated a tendency to embrace true tyranny over the years. But like I said, our worst mistake would be thinking it can't happen here. - R.
RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Nick Palmer uploads video on Climategate
I got 404 on that link. - R. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:sa...@pobox.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 5:31 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Nick Palmer uploads video on Climategate On 12/09/2009 05:51 PM, Michel Jullian wrote: You're right Rick that suppression can occur even in the US: http://premiereslignes.blogs.nouvelobs.com/archive/2009/12/08/enfumes.html (in French, sorry) snip
RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Nick Palmer uploads video on Climategate
Nick Palmer wrote: I think you're going to have to dig up some evidence of that Rick. Perhaps you have been listening to too many Limbaugh'esque talk show propagandists without critical analysis. Done. Been listening to you. Clear references to your desire that voiced opposition to your dearly held religious AGW and political beliefs should be banned by legislation: Specifically in a global warming thread - no right: You have no right to risk everybody else futures with your over-confident view. I know you are American, but Christ does your national ego know no limits? And in reference to conservative speech in the context of opposition to liberalism or green philosophy - legislated against : Lies and propaganda tending to increase hate crimes is rightly legislated against over here. Some Yanks have got very strange and often dangerous ideas about what the ideas of free speech and freedom of action should allow. - R.
RE: [Vo]:OT: Scientists grow pork meat in a laboratory (Follow-up)
Sure it's propagated from a clean tested starter batch, etc. The problem is that what you don't know can kill you, and there's so much that is unknown, and so much that can kill you. Do you know how much of the human genome is of recent (and ancient) viral and bacterial origin? Are you aware of how much modification goes on from such sources, and would you even consider such a thing as a risk? The conventional answers would likely be no, but you might want to take a look at some of the recent discoveries on horizontal gene transfer and the activation of dormant sequences. The same factors in less similar meat, or the GMO's that the food hippies are so terrified of, might not be as risky or familiar to human tissue as the stuff in 'close' meat. Familiarity breeds danger. So there's that and the damaged proteins and their coding, prions, unknown triggers for cancers and other diseases, mutations, etc. I could go on and on here but for the sake of brevity let's just say that the gods simply do not approve. Someday maybe when genetics is completely understood and can be properly engineered, I might take a bite of that sandwich. But certainly not now. Rent the movie Gattaca from 12 years ago if you haven't seen it, and think about how incredibly complex life's coding is, and how little we really know about its processes and interactions. And I apologize for previously misspelling soylent, if there is a correct way to spell a made-up movie word. R.
RE: [Vo]:OT: Scientists grow pork meat in a laboratory (Follow-up)
Jed wrote: Many right-wing commentators believe the trends are opposite, and that freedom and self determination is decreasing. These people don't know much about history. What I wrote was a right-wing comment, precisely because I, as do these people, know enough about history to know how much freedom we still retain, and thus my/our alarm at how fast we are reverting to the bad old ways in the name of the progressive movement. But perhaps this thread has become purely political and should stop soon. I'm done with it. R.
RE: [Vo]:OT: Scientists grow pork meat in a laboratory (Follow-up)
So then Jed sez: Ah, then you know the wrong history, or you misinterpret it, you poor dears. I'm well aware there was far less freedom in all categories in the past, not to mention elsewhere in the world today. My regret is that we are willingly giving up what we have now to return to a form of tyranny effectively not very different from it. And yet you accuse me (and those like me) of not understanding what's involved here. Frankly I think it is an intentional mischaracterization. You're far too smart not to know better. - R.
RE: [Vo]:Quote from Wrangham book
Terry - (Gasp!) Jed does not like sushi?! LOL! Me too, reading that was a bit like the head rush I get from the usual overdose of fresh wasabi! - R.
RE: [Vo]:OT: Scientists grow pork meat in a laboratory (Follow-up)
This is rather scary. If they can do pig, could long pig be far behind? Soilent is... R.
RE: [Vo]:ALARM US?!?: The Abduction Paradigm
Why not both? Best photograph I never took and forever kick myself for missing: at a state fair, in a stall for cattle, there was a First Place ribbon over Boopsie or whatever, and a sign thanking Safeway for purchasing etc. etc. And there was a ~12 year old girl who apparently raised it, with her arms around its neck, crying her eyes out. :( R. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 6:23 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:ALARM US?!?: The Abduction Paradigm Food or pets according to Charles Fort. Some have speculated that they feed on fear. They are symbiotes who ensure that mankind does not destroy itself; but, remains in a constant state of war in order to drain energy from our emotions. Yikes! (burp) Terry
RE: [Vo]:Question about hot glass
Oh it's glowing all right at those temperatures. It's just clear. Now if you get a layer on the surface, even a very thin one, of something that reacts with the atmosphere, and it will go opaque because of the reacting compounds at the surface. Tin bloom on float glass, applied color or additives, nasty polluted kiln atmosphere from previous pottery glaze use, etc. will cause the surface to become rather opaque to some degree. Good clean clear glass though is always clear at process and furnace temperatures. I suppose if the background behind the clean glass is dark, then the glow might overwhelm what you actually see and it could look opaque, but it is still clear. Get some light behind it and it becomes readily apparent. R. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:sa...@pobox.com] Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 6:57 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Question about hot glass Rick Monteverde wrote: The hot (1800+ degF) and warm (1450+ degF) glass I've worked with always stays clear. Glass from a furnace is extremely clear, you can look at the bottom of the pot and it looks like there's nothing in there. In this case it's presumably also not glowing, or at least not much, and that would seem to fit with the claim that it absorbs just as it radiates. The really weird thing is when gold metal gets translucent. Noticed it for years but never believed my eyes were telling me the truth. Say what?? Could you please provide more info on this? This teaser is a killer! R. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:sa...@pobox.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 3:38 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Question about hot glass I ran across an explanation of a blackbody which I actually understood a week or so back (totally unexpected, it was in the introductory chapter to a QM book), and since then I've been fiddling around with gedanken experiments involving black boxes with little holes in them and the second law of thermodynamics. And it appears to me that, according to the second law of thermodynamics, if glass is heated red-hot or orange-hot, and it's actually seen to be glowing orange, it should also turn *opaque* to visible light while it's at that temperature.
RE: [Vo]:Question about hot glass
The hot (1800+ degF) and warm (1450+ degF) glass I've worked with always stays clear. Glass from a furnace is extremely clear, you can look at the bottom of the pot and it looks like there's nothing in there. The really weird thing is when gold metal gets translucent. Noticed it for years but never believed my eyes were telling me the truth. R. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:sa...@pobox.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 3:38 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Question about hot glass I ran across an explanation of a blackbody which I actually understood a week or so back (totally unexpected, it was in the introductory chapter to a QM book), and since then I've been fiddling around with gedanken experiments involving black boxes with little holes in them and the second law of thermodynamics. And it appears to me that, according to the second law of thermodynamics, if glass is heated red-hot or orange-hot, and it's actually seen to be glowing orange, it should also turn *opaque* to visible light while it's at that temperature.
RE: [Vo]:Black Silicon
I'm not sure if it's an amateur level process to deposit an even, superthin layer of TiO2 on to the glass (silica) nanostructures, but even I've anodized plain Ti metal with a battery charger and Coke (regular, not diet) as the electrolyte. Diatom silica structures operate as photonic crystals, but I don't think it's clear to anyone what purpose that has, if it has something to do with gathering light for photosynthesis or if it's for some other purpose outside the organism. I've not spent much time looking into the subject, but it's pretty interesting. Nature does fantastic things on the nanoscale at a collectively large scale with dramatic effects. I guess that's why the nanotech bandwagon has so many riders at the moment. -Original Message- From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheff...@mtaonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 7:16 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Black Silicon Titanium diox ide itself is a semi-conductor. There are also a great many ways to pacify the surface of titanium: http://www.finishing.com/1200-1399/1265.shtml http://www.electrohio.com/Finishing/TiAnodizing/TiAnodizing.htm The resulting surface nano-structures produce differing colors, including black. All sorts of ordinary chemicals can be used, including TSP (trisodium phosphate, a detergent). Pacified titanium surfaces might be a great thing for amateur development of solar cell material. It is also notable that Ti is CF active, and Pd, Zr, and other potentially CF active metallic salts are very effective at Ti surface pacification. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]:Black Silicon
Algae again - diatoms have been tried with some success. Stuck to the conductive substrate, they are coated with a layer of titanium dioxide. Photons ping around in the fancy geometric nanostructures for increased hits on the dye-sensitized stuff thereby knocking loose more electrons, or something like that. http://tinyurl.com/msnat6 Coat with palladium compound for a LENR electrode? Tinfoil hat extra credit: http://www.astrographics.com/GalleryPrintsIndex/GP2122.html Aren't those the same hieroglyphics as seen on certain i-beam structures from New Mexico? Take a careful look at how the symbols repeat and even form in different rotations of 90 degree increments. Isn't bio-morphology interesting?! - Rick
RE: [Vo]:Do it backwards: added 1997-style, science-based Vortex
I still have Vortex-C in my email folder list, but it's empty and I forget what it was for. Vortex Classic? - Rick
RE: [Vo]:Smoke Ring?
Inadvertent condensation near the rim of a visually cloaked disc shaped field-effect craft? - Rick
RE: [Vo]:New drill to make geothermal easier
Geothermal wells are in place today where the heat source is nearer to the surface, and have been for some time. Water goes down the pipe, picks up heat, comes up steam. Why do you think that wouldn't work? - Rick _ From: David Jonsson [mailto:davidjonssonswe...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:36 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:New drill to make geothermal easier Wait a moment. The magma is hot becasue it is pressurised. When you pick it up to earth it will expand and cool. Do some calculation on it and see how much heat is left. There is no difference if you pump a fluid down to the magma. It will get pressurized as it go down and will heat up because of that. It will coll when rising. That there is an energy source to keep the heat in the interior is not well proven. It could just be a pressure effect. In fluids this heat gradient is well known but almost entirely ignored for solids. David David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370 On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Alexander Hollins alexander.holl...@gmail.com wrote: http://gizmodo.com/5291538/romulan-planet-drill-now-in-testing-stages-for-re al Now, I've got a question. If we drill down to magma, and use that heat for power generation... aren't all powerplants just heat pumps? we generate the power while letting heat flow naturally down the line to colder climes. which would be. the crust,the ground, the air? wouldn't that cause a global warming if done on a large scale as well?
RE: [Vo]:New drill to make geothermal easier
As you said, but also gas emissions from the geothermal wells have proven to be a far greater problem than waste heat. They had a big problem with hydrogen sulfide and other stuff in Puna, Hawaii. There can also be ground water changes and other issues when a near-surface source is tapped. Deeper wells might be different on that count, but in any case if the system doesn't use some sort of closed loop generation, toxic gasses will be an issue. Not to mention splitting the earth in half, etc. - Rick -Original Message- From: Nick Palmer [mailto:ni...@wynterwood.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:22 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:New drill to make geothermal easier snip If geothermal proved to be a problem, I think it would be easily soluble. Nick Palmer On the side of the Planet - and the people - because they're worth it
RE: [Vo]:Calcium - sodium serendipity?
Horace - Free association^2 ... Some theories hold that some of the tiny calcium particles in some water supplies are formed by nanobacteria. Water with special properties (healing, etc.), for instance Arkansas hot springs water, have a high concentration of these organisms(?). Don't know if the organic and inorganic forms would be different in regards to your morning overunity cuppa, but they do look very different in their surface appearance. Maybe the old Beer commercial was right: It's the water. Video of nanobacteria being rudely awakened when their shells dissolve, and a comparison with inorganic calcium phosphate crystals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXO58edpIU8 - Rick -Original Message- From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheff...@mtaonline.net] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:54 AM To: Vortex-L Subject: [Vo]:Calcium - sodium serendipity? This is just an observation that may or may not be serendipitous, but striking enough to me to document it. This morning I thought my electric coffee pot was malfunctioning.
RE: [Vo]:When two wrongs make a right
Dunno, I forget. I seem to remember something about burning aluminum, even. I think there's quite a few things out there that aren't practical because they take too much energy to make. That's why they haven't been explored. -Rick -Original Message- From: itsat...@gmail.com [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Hollins Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:33 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:When two wrongs make a right The problem is just that , conversion efficiency. The more conversions you make, the more entropy in teh system, the more energy lost. What are you going to make other than electricity? We have internal combustion motors, and we have electical motors. so, if not electricity, then some new burnable fuel? made how?
RE: [Vo]:politics and religion
Just go to PayPal and send to Bill's email address: bi...@eskimo.com and he'll get it. - Rick -Original Message- From: Steven Krivit [mailto:stev...@newenergytimes.com] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:41 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:politics and religion Taking the lead on anything is not easy. I think we should be working with Bill to help find ways to mutually support his leadership. (and contribute too, by the way) Bill, you have Paypal or do we write checks?
RE: [Vo]:When two wrongs make a right
Couldn't a broad build-out of nuke plants make electricity cheap enough, at least in dedicated operations, to use the resulting electric power in the cost-effective manufacture of synthetic transportation fuels? At the extreme end of the scale where your source energy cost goes very low, all sorts of manufacturing pathways to various fuels and storage schemes might become practical. Such schemes wouldn't otherwise be considered now where the energy efficiency ratio for production is poor. Cars don't have to actually run on electricity if power is cheap enough. - Rick _ From: Chris Zell [mailto:chrisrz...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:32 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:When two wrongs make a right I don't understand the emphasis on energy sources that make electricity, especially nuclear. Growth in demand is slowing particularly since the economy has slowed and may only recover weakly. Nuclear and solar can replace coal but not oil. Why worry about charging electric cars? Who will be able to afford them when Prius sales have dropped 40+%? Can we charge them with surplus generation at 3 am? Will people buy a 32K Japanese electric car or a 40K GM Volt? We need transportation fuels, not nuclear and not even much solar.
RE: [Vo]:Brain scanning headsets!Sigh.
Mashing that with Natal and an interface to X10 might be kinda fun. Leaking pen wrote: It actually picks up brain waves, from my understanding. snip
RE: [Vo]:Shanahan goes off the deep end! -- The psychology of bigotry
I don't think Randi would be interested in a female child, so you're off the hook there.
RE: [Vo]:The Science of Greenhouse Effect...Time for some balance?
Nice shot on the messenger, well done! (got anything on his message? ) -Original Message- From: Nick Palmer [mailto:ni...@wynterwood.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Science of Greenhouse Effect...Time for some balance? Ferenc Miskolczi - balance? - oh please! Before you now it he will be proving his theories using the size, relationships and angles of the great pyramids. http://www.realclimate.org/wiki/index.php?title=Ferenc_Miskolczi Nick Palmer On the side of the Planet - and the people - because they're worth it
RE: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture
-Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:34 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture That may be incorrect, but it is not nonsense. It is supported by some data and some theory. The assertion made by Fink -- that high CO2 levels do not affect human respiration therefore the global warming hypothesis must be wrong -- is not supported by data or theory. It is a straw man logical fallacy; he is refuting an argument that no one makes. - Jed [Fink] may be incorrect, but it is not nonsense. It is supported by some data and some theory. The assertion made by [Rothwell] -- that [Fink's claim is wrong and therefore the global warming hypothesis must be right] -- is not supported by data or theory. It is a straw man logical fallacy; he is refuting an argument that no one makes.
RE: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture
Jed - What Jeff said later. I was just having fun with your response, no harm intended. - Rick -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:21 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture Rick Monteverde wrote: The assertion made by Fink -- that high CO2 levels do not affect human respiration therefore the global warming hypothesis must be wrong -- is not supported by data or theory. . . . [Fink] may be incorrect, but it is not nonsense. It is supported by some data and some theory. Okay, what data and theory? Where is it published? What are you talking about? I have never heard of anything like that, and Fink did not supply the names of papers or references. The assertion made by [Rothwell] -- that [Fink's claim is wrong and therefore the global warming hypothesis must be right] -- is not supported by data or theory. It is a straw man logical fallacy; he is refuting an argument that no one makes. My assertion was not a straw man. Fink clearly made the argument that there is no danger from global warming as long as CO2 levels do not affect human respiration. (To put it another way, he claimed that the basis of the global warming hypothesis is rooted in measurements or assertions about CO2 affecting human respiration.) That is unprecedented and without any scientific basis as far as I know. If you know of some foundation for this, Rick, please enlighten us. Or if you claim that is not Fink's argument, then what was it? - Jed
RE: [Vo]:The Science of Greenhouse Effect...Time for some balance?
The message, despite the link, was clearly ad-hominem. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:sa...@pobox.com] Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:13 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Science of Greenhouse Effect...Time for some balance? The page in question was actually directed at his message, not the messenger, despite the title. There was no ad hominem involved at all. Anyone unclear on this should go read the page to which Nick posted the link, which directly addresses Miskolczi's arguments regarding global warming. Nothing at all that I saw on that page attacked Mizkolczi, the man.
RE: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture
Jed wrote: If you would like to argue that salt or CO2 in the wrong places in the wrong amounts are not pollutants, let's see some reasons. Wait a minute! - Anthropogenic contributions of CO2 to the atmosphere is warming earth's climate (and we're at the tipping point now, etc.) If you say it's not, show me some reasons. In your version of a science forum, you can just make up pure scientifical sounding nonsense like that, perhaps justified by political reasons, then tell us if we can't show evidence that it isn't true, we should basically just shut up and smell the socialism? Ok, I'll play: - Invisible elves from the Crab Nebula in Orion are controlling the Federal Reserve Bank from their base on the back side of the moon. And that explains everything that's happened to the US economy lately, as confirmed by numerous people who have studied these things carefully and can't possibly be wrong. There it is. Hmpf. - Rick
RE: [Vo]:Compression and LENR?
I love garage floor 'experiments'. g The effects you describe are from recombination though, right? - Rick -Original Message- From: Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. [mailto:hoyt.stea...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 1:55 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Compression and LENR? I had a 1 oz bar of D loaded palladium once that had blown up and looked like a pillow. I whacked in with a sledge hammer on my garage concrete floor, and indeed, it made quite a loud bang and blew a ragged hole in the side of the palladium. On another occasion, I'd heard you could light these with a flame, and indeed it burned red hot for a few minutes 'til all the D had been exhausted. Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona US http://HoytStearns.com
RE: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE
For a fresh scientific angle on the numerous inconsistencies in Darwinism: http://www.panspermia.com
RE: [Vo]:send Bill B some money for putting up with a lot
Good call, Frank. - Rick _ From: fznidar...@aol.com [mailto:fznidar...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:11 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:send Bill B some money for putting up with a lot I did. _ Huge http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221836042x1201399880/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215073686%3B37034322%3Bb savings on HDTVs from Dell.com!
RE: [Vo]:send Bill B some money for putting up with a lot
I have an account on PayPal, so I just click Send Money and put Bill's email address in as the target. - Rick -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:10 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:send Bill B some money for putting up with a lot Does anyone remember the Paypal or Amazon links to donate? Terry On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Rick Monteverde r...@highsurf.com wrote: Good call, Frank. - Rick From: fznidar...@aol.com [mailto:fznidar...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:11 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:send Bill B some money for putting up with a lot I did. Huge savings on HDTVs from Dell.com!
RE: [Vo]:China vs US -- BILL BEATY ALL FORUM MEMBERS PLEASE READ
Rhong - Thanks for posting that. I have blocked the troll directly via email filter and yet I constantly wade through the debris left behind when otherwise responsible forum members attempt to answer or correct the troll's nonsense posts. Please note that this forum is archived online, and this garbage substantially dilutes the otherwise useful, perhaps even important body of postings which Vortex represents. I respectfully request that everyone think before posting and stop rising to troll bait, and again I also join in the request for Bill B. to remove the troll's account for persistent violations to the letter and spirit of the forum rules. Thanks, Rick -Original Message- From: Rhong Dhong [mailto:rongdon...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:03 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:China vs US snip Why does the moderator allow off-topic junk like the above? A little bit once in a while doesn't hurt, but this list is supposed to be about science, especially juicy fringe science. Unfortunately, it is turning into a high school civics class. And please ban Croc or Groc or whoever he is: He is largely responsible for leading the boys astray.
RE: [Vo]:Mylow motor -- the final cut
Yes, unless during the process the elements in motion somehow tap an energy source. Fraudulently done with coils or a directed stream of air from stage left. More interestingly achieved with temperature differences, or other less obvious sources - variations in electric charge from the air and nearby surfaces, or some even more mysterious reservoir of energy. The staggering of the magnetic poles on the stator assembly and the uneven positioning of the rotor magnets might be significant and kind of got my attention in the videos. He even says that when things are arranged too regular it gets - I forget his exact words, but it gets sticky or steppy. -Original Message- From: Mark S Bilk [mailto:m...@cosmicpenguin.com] Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:46 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mylow motor -- the final cut snip And no matter how many magnets or pieces of iron you use, the forces and energy (work) all add linearly, so the net result is zero energy gained per rotation of the thing. Thus all magmos are BS. I'll shut up now.)
RE: [Vo]:OT: Why Ice is Slippery
This is interesting, and it sounds like oriented water. The resilience may be in the vertical range, but there may be variablilty of friction in the horizontal domain, one that might be influenced with a broom (or electric charge?). -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder [mailto:hvee...@ncf.ca] Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 8:26 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: Why Ice is Slippery snip Personally, I am interested in this work because it bears on the controversy over why a curling stone curls. The motion of a curling stone has been simulated on a computer using Newton's law's motion and some models of melting from pressure and friction, but unless the ice actual melts according to the models, the simulations demonstrate nothing. Here is another discussion the research which says a bit more about the experiment itself. http://www.felixonline.co.uk/articles/2301/The_science_of_ice_skating Harry
RE: [Vo]:check this out..someone is doing a lot of work collecting this info
Ha ha - showing your age - still harboring notions of privacy, I see. -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:09 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:check this out..someone is doing a lot of work collecting this info Yikes! It even lists me. That's unpleasant. With a photo -- even more unpleasant. This is downright invasive. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:[OT] Cyanoacrylate activator: Where did it go?
Fellow time traveller: Went to the hardware chain store here the other day to get a bag of plaster. They didn't have any, and the clerk wasn't even really sure what it was and got suspicious - asked what I wanted it for. I should have told her I was a terrorist and I was going to jump on a subway train and plaster everybody's feet to the floor so they couldn't get off at their stops. Jeez. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:sa...@pobox.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:47 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:[OT] Cyanoacrylate activator: Where did it go? A couple decades ago I was, for a brief time, a (not very good) hardware design engineer. In the lab, we used snip
RE: [Vo]:[OT] Cyanoacrylate activator: Where did it go?
Plaster of paris. Sounds European and vaguely seditious, I guess. - R. -Original Message- From: leaking pen [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:16 AM To: r...@highsurf.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] Cyanoacrylate activator: Where did it go? plaster of paris plaster, or concrete plaster? On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Rick Monteverde r...@highsurf.com wrote: Fellow time traveller: Went to the hardware chain store here the other day to get a bag of plaster. They didn't have any, and the clerk wasn't even really sure what it was and got suspicious - asked what I wanted it for. I should have told her I was a terrorist and I was going to jump on a subway train and plaster everybody's feet to the floor so they couldn't get off at their stops. Jeez. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:sa...@pobox.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:47 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:[OT] Cyanoacrylate activator: Where did it go? A couple decades ago I was, for a brief time, a (not very good) hardware design engineer. Â In the lab, we used snip
RE: [Vo]:Latest from Mylow
Horace - That's what I was thinking too, but wouldn't those dangly things on his table lamp serve to indicate air flow? They look rather heavy, but also look like they hang loose enough to indicate a fairly small breeze. R. --- By use of air flow directed by a large orifice nozzle off camera. It doesn't take much energy to keep a wheel turning. It is just a matter of keeping the air flow quiet enough that it doesn't register on camera. Some cross flow fans are quiet enough to work and are very small. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]:Latest from Mylow
There are several videos. In one he says that people have complained that the lamp beside the disc has a coil or something in it and he picks it, turns it over, peels off the back to show inside it. The lamp has dangling glass or plastic decorative parts that swing and move easily. My impression is that it's probably a self-delusion, but I don't know that for sure or how it is happening - but air would be one easy way. All those magnets make pretty good low speed drag based turbine 'vanes'. R. snip I haven't watched many of the videos (I think only two in fact) nor have I had time to follow the discussion. I don't recall any lamp. /snip
[Vo]:Do spinning cryo rings twist space?
Remember the claims about sprouting plants tending to lean to center when grown above a spinning mass? If you ever suspected that spinning certain things (bismuth, brass, superconducting rings or discs, etc.) might cause some anomalous gravity-like effects, the experiment below might look pretty good to you. http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/1742-6596/150/3/032101/jpconf9_150_032101.pdf? request-id=92423b19-1ec0-4379-891a-311c6c69e0b2 Watch out for the text-wrap break, or try: http://tinyurl.com/cnsonh - R.
RE: [Vo]:Tribute~2-Hawking~*~Newton left hitch-hiking~;-) ConceptCraft Prospectus: Quantum-Gravionic Point-Lead Focused Hyper-GravThrust
Are are you the guy who writes copy for the labels on Dr. Bronner's castille soap? - R _ From: Harbach Jak [mailto:ja.harc...@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 9:32 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Tribute~2-Hawking~*~Newton left hitch-hiking~;-) ConceptCraft Prospectus: Quantum-Gravionic Point-Lead Focused Hyper-GravThrust ~*~NEWTON is LEFT HITCH-HICKING~*~Einstein Hawking Feynman brought us here* Anita @ Boeing Phantom Works: Since 'Spooky action @ Distance' is a Proven; and Russia has created a functional DARK ENERGY PROVING Gray-Jet electro-plasmic subSingularity PLASMA-BREACH Reactor(replete) with focusable AXIAL HYPER-GRAVITY bleed-through LOBULAR FIELD-perpendicular-axisNewton becomes thusly at somewhat of a distinct disadvantage as we're making his APPLE FALL UPWARD. . . . In addition: EUROPEAN SCIENTIST Joachim Hauser has PROVEN the existance of TORSION-WAVES that move at SPOOKY ACTION @ DISTANCE HYPER-SPEED aka 'VIRTUAL NO-TIME SPEED' through PARALLEL AEXO-DarkSpace. . . And thusly Hauser's discovery has rendered the VERY PREMISE of FRANK DRAKE's 'SETI' as already obsolete since Light-Speed Radio Waves would simply NOT be the mode of COMMUNICATION of likely SPACE-TRAVELERS. These would have long since harnessed EINSTEIN-ROSEN BRIDGE travel that the EXTENDED EINSTEINIAN theories and ENGINEERING CONCEPTS that have been articulated by myself and others which HARNESSING PARALLEL AEXO-DarkSpace Bleed-through Fields avails us the FOCUSABLE HYPER-GRAVITY FIELD craft surrounding defacto worm hole establishing propulsion which accomplish the afore stated fairly handily. Displacing a craft within it's Reactor Hyper-Gravity Field renders it a mini-psuedopoidal-universe bubble able to move within the HYPER-SpookyAction- VIRTUAL-NO-TIME SPEEDS of AEXO-DarkSpace. Navigation control so as to not 'over-shoot' targeted destination would be the biggest problem. And controlling the reactor to be merely PARTIALLY DISPLACED from Space-Time Normal would likelywise still avail us the benefits of DEFACTO WORM HOLE SPACE-COMPRESSION travel at speeds far out stripping LightSpeed in INTERTA IMMUNE reactor field encapsulated craft. From some of the statements of John Brandenburg/ORBITEC his concept of TACHYON FIELDS is the very same as what I've referred to as these BLEED-THROUGH AEXO-DarkSpace Hyper-Gravity Fields. In effect the concepts are interchangeable IMMINENTLY FUNCTIONAL. And Brandenburg's references to these concepts indicate that he is likely aware of RD that you have not as yet been brought into the loop in regards to. IN SHORT: Parallel-adjacent AEXO-DarkSpace is indeed TACHYON-FIELD SPACE. YOU WROTE///Jack-- There's a lot of theory here. What are the goes-intos and goes-out-ofs for this propulsion system? Using Einstein, do we still need some Newton to move a spacecraft from one place to another? Anita If Danny Wu is not talking to you /or if you are not in the loop nor on the RD team then I understand that you're playing 'catch-up' here. Chief-Scientist/Project Coodinator Danny Wu/Phantom Works is the 'go-to guy' in your immediate chain of command. Check http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_St orage1_042009 it out. _ Rediscover HotmailR: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check it out. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Up dates2_042009
RE: [Vo]:Red Hot Lies
Two seemingly similar but completely different situations. In LENR there is good evidence of heat and nuclear processes evolving from singular experiments where the parameters are well known and easily contained. On the other hand, there is no evidence whatsoever that humans have the ability in either measurement or computation to correctly take into account the dynamics of the vast paramater set of an ENTIRE PLANET (geez, how obvious can this be anyway???). For all we know, AGW has tipped already (as is claimed by alarmists). Or maybe not. Our maybe are activities have in fact been partly responsible for the cooling, etc. We can't properly evaluate the anthropogenic contribution to potential climate change at this time, and those who claim they can are either deluded or frauds. And unlike the case with LENR, they have produced no evidence that they can. So it's inappropriate to compare AGW with LENR in those terms, although the subjects of fraud-for-funding and psychological tendencies (belief paradigms, etc.)are indeed closely involved with each of them. -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:19 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Red Hot Lies ... you will also believe that Martin Fleischmann ...
RE: [Vo]:Red Hot Lies
Stephen: ... Rick, you're of the opinion that things have gotten hotter ... Please insert may (have gotten hotter), since it seems to be a trend, although trends in complex dynamical systems are notoriously untrustworthy. Jed: The planet's weather is less complex than a bacterium? Funny you should mention that. There are more kinds of bacteria than all other animal and plant species combined by a factor of perhaps some hundreds of millions. Yes I wrote factor, as in multiples of. They are by some incredibly vast margin the largest biomass there is. And those bugs behave in ways that are not known or understood. They affect the climate. They sculpt and alter the makeup of the surface, ocean, and atmosphere of the entire planet, changing everything alive and not. (I wasn't going to mention it, but in addition: for every bacteria, there's a phage - interacting with all those bacterial hosts, and on and on it goes.) Some climate models use cows, sheep, etc. because of the gasses their bacteria make. If we were all vegetarians, greenhouse gasses would be reduced. Maybe - I'm a veg-o so I do my part. g But that's such a trivial portion of the bacterial load in the earth and oceans, and those others also interact with and process all sorts of chemicals and things connected to other significant processes. There must be astronomical numbers of possible reactions between and among them and their inputs and outputs that can cause one thing or another to cross some tipping point and all of a sudden our atmosphere is made of cyanide or something, or is frozen solid or evaporated into space. Apparently it happened before and it's why we have grown to like oxygen. Did someone program all that into their models? You think science *could ever* understand or make useful predictive models in that range? Really? And bacterial interaction, immensely complicated as it is, is just *one* (albeit significant) variable parameter in the enormous climate mix! There's one thing of which I am absolutely certain when it comes to interpreting a system this complex: from all starting points save perhaps overwhelming total runaway conditions, only a god could comprehend and predict what would be likely to happen. And they would have to be a very big and important god at that. Al Gore is kinda big, but he's no god. Despite all that, I think there is yet another way we might get better clues about how this single planetary climate system might evolve. Hint: Kepler's a good start. - R.
RE: [Vo]:Author believes energy breakthroughs have been suppressed
Grok killfile Useless troll, no contribution whatsoever - typical megalomaniac problems. Request removal by list owner. -Original Message- From: grok [mailto:g...@resist.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:58 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Author believes energy breakthroughs have been suppressed -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Finally, as for grok's most recent contributions, predictably he felt compelled to say something that he felt was presumably witty about this extremely contorted subject. I wish grok would post something useful or informative. Continuing to post judgmental opinions pertaining to the weaknesses and fallacies of others and their perceptions as an attempt to show how superior his personal intellect must be, is turning out to be nothing ore than an exercise in mental masturbation. Grok, please do it behind closed doors where we don't have to continue observing the activity. Like Mr. Lawrence, I too, am seriously considering the kill file for the remainder of your life-span within Vortex. I realize I risk fanning the flames here, but I guess it's the risk I'll have to take. - From my POV, fella, when most people like you wax eloquent on politix -- maybe Science too, eh? -- you're just plain embarrassing. You think you've made your slam-dunk point, etc. -- but in fact you haven't even gotten close to Reality. So by all means, put me in your killfile. Life is too short to have to suffer such endless repeated inanity as yours. Not to mention the hypocrisy. Talk about intolerant. Welcome to U.S. society. Police state that it is. - -- grok. - -- *** FULL-SPECTRUM FIGHTBACK! *** * In advance of the Revolution: * Get facts get organized * * Fight the Man! * thru these sites movements * * http://www.infoshop.org/wiki Infoshop OpenWiki * *http://www.infoshop.org/octo/matrix The Matrix:Anti-Capitalist Wiki * http://risingtide.org.uk Greenwash Guerillas UK * * http://risingtidenorthamerica.orgGreenwash Guerillas * * http://www.ministrywatch.com MinistryWatch * * http://www.levees.org Levees.Org * * http://www.govtrack.us GovTrack.us: Tracking the U.S. Congress * NEW-WORLD-ORDER-SPEAK: Law Order == Police State GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmu+WIACgkQXo3EtEYbt3HsNwCgjw+dE6da/3OsJlhlle658uRM DggAniRjGIwfxaKzw1Bt8OEDAKgsFcXJ =iCtk -END PGP SIGNATURE-
RE: [Vo]:Author believes energy breakthroughs have been suppressed
I know that of course, and have done the same. But please consider that the forum is archived. That's why I requested removal. There's no effort on the part of such a person to actually participate. They only make frivolous attacks and outrageous statements with no intent other than to cause turmoil. -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:25 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Cc: bi...@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Author believes energy breakthroughs have been suppressed Rick Monteverde wrote: Useless troll, no contribution whatsoever - typical megalomaniac problems. Request removal by list owner. I don't see any point to removal by the list owner. That seem too extreme. All modern e-mail systems allow the user to flag and delete individuals. I have already nailed Grok so his postings do not trouble me. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Replications of zero current electrolysis
Thomas - What planet are you living on Jed? Did you hear the news? Pakistan (100 nukes) is being over run by Al Queda, Iran has enough material to build one, and they just launched a satellite. Well, at least Obama's not really a socialist, it's just opportunistic political opponents telling (some of) us he is. His actions and stated plans don't really matter, I guess. Like the beauty queen contestant said: Which planet? --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
RE: [Vo]:The key to self-sufficient Energy
Jed - Jindal's comments are an example of the lingering anti-technology, anti-science attitude of the Bush administration and the Republican Party. Unfortunately, there is a lot of this attitude in the rest of A demagogue takes things out of context and twists them, weaving truthful content into a lie. It's intellectually dishonest and wrong. You don't know how much it personally saddens me that such a vigorous advocate of real scientific progress on our important energy issues such as yourself chooses to take that route. I've followed your writings since the Compuserve days, and this really does bother me. Jindal was correctly pointing out that volcano monitoring, worthy as it may be, is just an example of the far-fetched things that should NOT be in an emergency economic recovery plan. Volcano monitoring money should be spent, IMO, and everybody, including I would say statistically all Republicans including Jindal, understand that. Pass an environmental monitoring bill or something. But first, handle the HUGE economic emergency facing us with appropriate action. This is just a giant government deficit spending bill that has nothing to do with economic recovery. It's a disastrous piece of legislation, perhaps the most disastrous ever. Jindal was pointing that out in the hope that people like you would understand exactly what he was saying and in the correct context. But instead you, others here and the left now falsely call Jindal antiscience and equate all Republicans with it. This is beyond partisan disagreement, it is a simple lie. It is a lie that is going to hurt us all for years to come should it persist in preventing rational action to take place in our government response to the economy, and it stands a very good chance of destroying us for good. We're blowing what is probably our last chance on this nonsense, and it leaves us too vulnerable. Try look at it this way: say the other shoe drops. Some big secondary economic shock, natural disaster, or devastating terror attack or war. How about a volcano blow that takes out two or three global growing seasons. We won't need $140m on volcano monitoring equipment if something like that down in Indo pops, the 1000 ft wave will be our first clue that the US and the world is out of recovery options. - Rick
[Vo]:Happy Easter (island), and keep your volcanoes clean
Rapa Nui, a few generations ago: Keep carving that basalt, citizens. Your intellectually superior rulers know that the only way to get out of this crisis is to spend the last of our strength and dimensionally significant forest resources in carving out and dragging these giant Tikis to the other side of the island where they will bring us salvation. Bush/Obama's stimulus plan(s) are exactly equivalent, and may yet end up where the folks on Rapa Nui found themselves, g-d forbid: suffering and bloodshed. Some are predicting it, and I wish they'd shut up. This is getting too real, no need to imminentize the eschaton. The Rapa Nui lesson serves as well for the use of socialism and totalitarianism to save us from global warming. We might as well put tikis on our beaches to keep the oceans from rising. Anything else we do would have the same effect. I thought we learned from this and so many other lessons. We do need to act, but act rationally, with steps known to improve people's economic possibilities, not those proven to suppress or destroy them as is being done now. Instead we cripple ourselves and spend what may be the last of our economic cred in the world on monitoring volcanoes and such. Got proof the monitoring we now have is inadequate to inform for public safety? Of course you don't. It isn't. That's why it's outrageous waste when there are so many more important things to deal with, and why it's such a crime to include it and then say that opposition to it is anti-science bla blaa. That claim may appear to stick as bounced around in the echo chambers of the left, but I think that the majority of Americans know better. It's just a shame that Jindal's excellent speech was delivered with such abysmal style. I believe in substance over style, but as a practical matter you can't get a message heard these days without lots of style. Obama has tons. Do any of you *really* think he'd be president if that were not the truth? - Rick
RE: [Vo]:The key to self-sufficient Energy
Jed - ... you are not familiar with modern volcano monitoring. Not that you would know anything about me or the ideas and interests I've discussed here all these years, but do you even consider where I live, who I have worked with here, and what I live ON? (Hint: I'll spot you a 'v', an 'o', and an 'l'. That's all you get, now try and guess the other 4.) Things have obviously changed, and I don't think there's much point in discussing this with you. I just correctly pointed out that environmental monitoring, good or otherwise, is a great example of NOT-STIMULUS, and you go on and on about how such monitoring is actually important, etc. etc. We're not hearing each other here any more, are we? - Rick
RE: [Vo]:Chinese discussion group links to LENR-CANR.org
Random thought: Americans are largely Sino phobic. Maybe that's useful: a cold fusion gap with the Chicoms. We must catch up! Not being entirely facetious here. I know the media dumps on LENR, but they really have ZER0 loyalty to any position they seem to be taking. It's whatever works for them at the moment, and having the Chinese getting ahead of us in tech areas has a little kick to it. IOW, the angle might help increase the chances for the publication of articles on the possibilities of LENR if it were pursued through significant (gov funded) research. - Rick -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:48 AM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Chinese discussion group links to LENR-CANR.org A discussion group in China has generated interest in LENR-CANR.org, especially my book. It started off with a discussion of photovoltaic device efficiency and payback time, and then someone brought up cold fusion. Yesterday and today it generated more than 100 downloads. The messages are in Chinese but Google language tools does a remarkably good job translating them into English. See: http://www.tianya.cn/publicforum/content/develop/1/239815.shtml Language tools: http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tianya.cn%2Fpublicf orum%2Fcontent%2Fdevelop%2F1%2F239815.shtmlsl=zh-CNtl=enhl=enie=UTF-8 snip
RE: [Vo]:The key to self-sufficient Energy
Jed - 2. It promotes economic growth according to Keynesian theory. Let's agree to disagree on that point. We agree on the intrinsic value of volcano and other environmental monitoring for well being and safety I 'm sure, and even further to wide ranging basic research, etc. --- except perhaps when rolled in as part of #2 above. What if it had a few hundred million earmarked for LENR research? I'd have a terrible time going against it, but I know I should. It's supposed to be an emergency stimulus response. Let all the other stuff be considered the usual way, with appropriate planning and forethought (hey, at least read the danged thing!) before voting on it. - Rick _ From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:42 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:The key to self-sufficient Energy Let me emphasize again that I am talking here only about volcano monitoring. Rick Monteverde and Jindal may be correct about the overall recovery plan. I have not looked at it. For all I know, it could be 90% pork and wasted money on unnecessary functions of government. Naturally I understand that some people favor government investment in things wind energy and others oppose it. These are complicated issues. What is not complicated is that volcano monitoring is not pork or waste. It is an essential function of government. Many other functions of government sound like a farfetched waste of money to people unfamiliar with modern technology. Rick wrote: But first, handle the HUGE economic emergency facing us with appropriate action. Obama and I think that the most appropriate action is to make vital repairs to the national infrastructure. This serves two purposes: 1. It saves lives and money -- it saves much more money than it costs. 2. It promotes economic growth according to Keynesian theory. Perhaps we are wrong about #2. I do not know enough about economics to judge the validity of Keynesian theory. I do know about technology, and things like bridges, volcano monitoring, salmonella and food safety, and what the people at CDC do. Salmonella monitoring by the government at peanut factories is a good example. It costs practically nothing. It adds a tiny fraction of one penny to a kilogram of peanuts. And what happens when it is not done properly? Salmonella breaks out, hundreds of people get sick, dozens of people die, billions of dollars worth of food must be thrown away, companies go out of business, and the public raises hell. Decades ago we lived with this kind of risk because we had to. People will not put up with it today! Obviously we cannot trust the factory owners to monitor themselves. As one of the innocent factory managers explained: most people will follow the rules but it only takes one or two to destroy the industry. As for the supposedly horrendous cost of government and the economic disaster we face, I think we should tax the wealthiest top 10% of the country to pay for this mess, just as we taxed them for the First and Second World Wars. Just raise their taxes back up to 80% or so for a few years until the problems blow over and the economy recovers. They can easily afford it, believe me. I am in the top 10%. (Not in income but in net assets.) I know a lot of other people who are. Wealthy people get far more benefits from government than the rest of society. Also, note that wealthy people caused this mess on Wall Street, and benefited from the policies that led up to it. Not all of us, of course! I do not oppose wealth and I am certainly no socialist. Wealth allows me to promote cold fusion pretty much full time, which is a good thing. But there are times when rich people have to fork over and make sacrifices proportional to their wealth and circumstances in life. You need not feel sorry for them. Except when they are drafted to serve in war, they are never called upon to make the kind of sacrifices poor people make every day of their lives. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Happy Easter (island), and keep your volcanoes clean
Jed - Volcano experts say the equipment we now have has not been updated in 8 to 16 years and it is falling to pieces. Okay, maybe they are lying, but if they are telling the truth, we have a serious problem. It is as if our last weather forecasting satellites were about to go out of service from old age -- which was the situation not long ago. Well if that's the case and public safety is at risk here, then by golly we need an emergency volcano monitoring program. Lets have our representatives discuss that, propose any necessary legislation, look it over carefully, then vote on it. I have no problem with that. We seem to be agreeing with opposite halves of each other's arguments, and disagreeing with the other halves. It's almost kind of funny. Feels sort of like... a vortex. g But I sure don't know why you keep on trying to explain vm to me. Might have been that comment about a big blow as the 'other shoe'. Never intended as a tie-in to monitoring at all, but rather to a shock event that could precipitate total economic collapse. After writing it, I thought a bit about examples of shocks and realized I should have written that much more likely than a large scale natural even would be something like a few too many rural Chinese pressuring urban areas, and authorities there not being able to handle it. Think that one through a couple of steps. (Who has our debt.) I really think that we have never been closer to TEOTWAWKI than that the Cuban crisis. This is nothing to mess around with. - Rick -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:40 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Happy Easter (island), and keep your volcanoes clean Rick Monteverde wrote: Instead we cripple ourselves and spend what may be the last of our economic cred in the world on monitoring volcanoes and such. Got proof the monitoring we now have is inadequate to inform for public safety? Of course you don't. It isn't. Rick, this is nonsense. Your larger points may be right, but this particular example is completely off base. Volcano experts say the equipment we now have has not been updated in 8 to 16 years and it is falling to pieces. Okay, maybe they are lying, but if they are telling the truth, we have a serious problem. It is as if our last weather forecasting satellites were about to go out of service from old age -- which was the situation not long ago. Volcano monitoring is a vital day-to-day service, like weather forecasting. For anyone living within 50 km of an active volcano there is no question it informs public safety! Volcano monitoring is not done to predict gigantic eruptions in the distant future. It is not done to prevent hypothetical damage in the future. It is not an untested, propeller-head project that may or may not predict eruptions. It works, and it is done to prevent damage. Typical volcano eruptions affect only a few thousand acres at a time, or a few dozen people. A gigantic eruption is easy to monitor -- you can't miss it! The small eruptions produce a gas leak or ash that destroy a village or town, or cause lung disease. The ash shortens the life of auto engines or a passing jet airplane engine because the weather blows the ash cloud where it is not expected. This is a daily occurrence in Japan. I do not follow volcano news in the U.S., but as I said, there are lots of volcanos in Japan and the Japanese meteorological agency issues volcano warnings and predictions routinely. It is regular feature of the 7:00 o'clock news. Ash often falls in cities far from the volcano. I've seen it; it looks like snow. If people don't cover up cars, sweep the stuff away, and clean equipment filters, it costs millions, although the cost it is spread out far and wide, like the cost of pollution. Breathe in too much ash and your lungs will be filled with concrete. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Who is John Galt?
This is a troll, right? Glorious examples of Socialism's successes please? Thought so. -Original Message- From: grok [mailto:g...@resist.ca] Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:05 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Who is John Galt? -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com mounted the barricade and roared out: With regard to both energy and the economy those bumper stickers should ask: Where is John Galt when we need him? Ayn Rand gave us John Galt in fiction. Reality hands us Bernie Madoff. No one does more harm to capitalism than capitalists. - Jed I really hate to break this to people here, but the future has *always* been with Socialism -- and that includes our glorious energy future as well. And some people can rant against this all they want, invoking their rabid individualist ideology or whatever -- but that doesn't make what I've just said any the less necessary as what we must aim for. And we can seetoday, too, where individualism(sic) gets us, for that matter... - -- grok. - -- *** FULL-SPECTRUM DOMINANCE! *** * BOYCOTT BOURGEOIS MASS-MEDIA: * McNews: UNfair UNbalanced * * Get mediaworx for your group/Internet/pirate tv/radio station! * Critical endorsement only Most sites need donations *** * http://satellite.indymedia.org North American Indymedia Newsreal * * http://newsreal.indymedia.de European Indymedia Newsreal * * http://www.outfoxed.orgOutfoxed AFSC Video * * http://www.afsc.org/resources/video-film.htm Lending Library * * http://www.unionist.com/song.htm Labor Song of the Week * * http://www.mirafilms.org Mira Films * * http://www.canofun.com/videoclips.asp Can o' Fun video clips * * HEY, KIDS!: JUST SAY *NO* TO THE DRAFT! * GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJoCY1Xo3EtEYbt3ERAn0+AJ0WGYt2/SyTWJp1kspoHudqphtp9ACg1i/n EBAHg9MlDUiSeposPNiaQkk= =7KGL -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[Vo]:Experimenter effects in fringe science
Experiment on Beneviste claim RE altering the properties of pure water through EM excitation: http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/20/1/23 While failing to confirm any effects by informing water through the application of EM signals, the problem of experimenter effects did make an appearance. I understand that this effect is a prime suspect in the Hutchison effect demonstrations, for instance. Ok then, how about experiments to isolate and duplicate *that* effect while ruling out mistakes and tricks? In the above experiment, the statement was made that the protocols used didn't explicitly rule out alterations to procedures by the single outlying Beneviste group experimenter, but none were seen. The scientific method is about replication by neutral third parties. Nice and all, it got us this far. But aren't we still missing something if real results can be reliably obtained, even if only by certain individuals? Is anyone aware of any project designed to work this angle? - R.
RE: [Vo]:Gasoline Tax Replacement
Jed - I think we've got to have this - when it's ready for prime time. It has to be fair such as taking into account fuel efficiency as you mentioned, and also be able to maintain privacy. That last one I think is the killer for extensions of systems like this for now, but it should be surmountable. If it wasn't a problem, I'd take this even further, making some trunk commute routes the equivalent of the TCA airways near airports. I want a wireless dashboard system that's all but driverless. You put in your offramp or destination it guides you, recommending speed, lane to be in, recording time of day, etc. as you drive the route, and bills you accordingly. Follow the guidelines closely and drive an efficient vehicle off-peak if you can, and you're rewarded with a low vehicle tax. By the time automakers are ready to build autopilot cars they should be ready to merge with such a system if standards are developed for it. Did I mention Terry's going to design it for us? - R. P.S. - Don' need no steenkin' train here, either! -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:02 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Gasoline Tax Replacement Terry Blanton wrote: In Oregon, they did not want to charge state taxes for miles driven outside the state. Ah. That makes sense. It is the first step toward variable toll rates depending on where you drive. Tolls should also vary by time of day. - Jed
RE: [VO]: Las Vegas water
I ever tell you the one about recovering lumber from the wonderful old growth sunken logs down in an Amazon basin region flooded by a dam project lake? South America should have been a clue. Good thing it was only pennies. -Original Message- From: OrionWorks [mailto:svj.orionwo...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:08 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [VO]: Las Vegas water ... I thought for sure there has to be a bright future in investing in a water reclamation company. Like most of my penny-for-your-thoughts advice I received my investment went south on the order of one or two magnitudes in value. ...
RE: [Vo]:New Era of Openness
My first thought when hearing about the From 43 to 44 envelope he found in his desk. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:31 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:New Era of Openness snip I wonder if BO will give us the UFO information that Carter promised? /snip
RE: [Vo]:OT: Limbaugh: I hope [BO] fails
Steven - Not so much striking out and hating is heard on that show (if any) - specific political opposition to liberalism is. But you wouldn't know that unless you listened. Far worse than completely miscasting RL's statements is your attempting to create equivalence between regular Limbaugh listeners - dittoheads - and an angry mob bent on destruction. I am a member of that mob you refer to, and I very much want BO to fail completely, as Limbaugh does, on every attempt he makes to move our government to the left. This is appropriate and constitutionally protected political opposition. Would you also consider citizens to be a mob bent on destruction if they listened to some strident liberal voice in opposition the policies of conservatives who were trying to move our government to the right? There you go. It's called political bias, Steven, and it's ok to have that. It's wrong to characterize those with a different bias than your own to be somehow the lesser for it solely on that basis. Why don't you start practicing what your man has been preaching and try reaching out and sharing ideas with conservatives instead of attacking their character? Jed, BO has stated many liberal, progressive, and socialist policies that will be promoted by his administration. His track record, most speech content, and his associations indicate he is extremely liberal. But he's been a demagogue through the campaign, pandering with perfect eloquence to whatever audience is listening. The left could find themselves victims of his agenda as often as the right for all we really know. And for the record, both RL and certainly most of his listeners would want BO to succeed on every conservative move he makes. And we know of course he will make these moves - the same day Robert Park endorses CF. -Original Message- From: OrionWorks [mailto:svj.orionwo...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:28 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: Limbaugh: I hope [BO] fails snip In a sense Limbaugh strikes me as someone who feeds off of mob mentality. When he feels sufficiently supported by the mobs of ditto heads he tries to cultivate from his talk show he seems embolden to strike out at those he hates. But when actually faced in-person with those he hates, he is not so brave. I'm reminded of a video clip I once saw of an angry mob preparing to reign destruction on a city block. Of particular interest was the behavior of one particular advancing young male who had a club in his hand. What was interesting was not the fact that he was advancing. What was interesting was the fact that he first checked his surroundings making sure he wasn't the ONLY individual who was advancing with destruction on his mind. Mob mentality. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:OT: Limbaugh: I hope [BO] fails
Jed - You may not agree with him, but you cannot accuse him of hiding his agenda or views. Synchronicity in action: At the very moment I read those words of yours above I was listening to the recording of Charlie Rose and Tom Brokaw discussing how nobody knows where he really is philosophically and to some extent politically. Actually I agree with you that indeed we do know what his views are: he's liberal. It's just that you and others here tend to like who that is, and I most likely don't. Example of not knowing for sure where he's coming from: fuzzy memory alert, details likely to be slightly off during the campaign, some handgun law somewhere was struck down in court, in DC I think, maybe it was in NY. BO was asked about it, and I said Ha - here we go... and listened to his response which was all about how people have a right to keep such firearms in their homes and have a right to armed self defense, and that the judge made a correct decision in the case, etc. I recall the reporter who asked the question sounding surprised and pitching a follow up to give him an opening to retrace a bit (as all good liberal media members should do if Their Man stumbles astray), but he just confirmed his opinion. I think I actually kind of enjoy the dizziness hit I felt that comes with that much cognitive dissonance, as long as I don't hurt myself hitting the floor. A spokesperson for the NRA couldn't have said it better than he did. This assumes (correctly) that the standard liberal take on firearms is to keep and expand stringent laws like the (DC? NY?) law, if firearms are even allowed to be to kept and borne at all. So what will he really *do* RE 2nd amendment issues? Your guess is as good as mine.
[Vo]:Getting the alignment right
Have I got this right? - The 2012 alignment with the plane of the galaxy is NOT and alignment of our solar system crossing the plane as it swings above and below. That crossing happened thousands of years ago and we're now 'above' it heading further away from the plane. The alignment is actually one where we get the sun aligned between us and the galactic center (happens normally twice a year?) at the moment of equinox (both together happens rarely). So the significance would be more of a spin field torsion kind of astrological thing at best, rather than any kind of conventional thing like tides on the galactic plane etc. The only other conventional significance I can think of would be if the sun actually does have a dark companion star 'Nemesis' out there, the gentle tug of gravity from the relevant bodies on each other and the galactic center/plane may have nudged thes bodies over deep time into some sort of periodic arrangement that does coincide in some way with an alignment such as will occur in 2012, and that such alignment alters...something. Oort cloud, interstellar dust...navigation pathways for a lizard race from planet X...?
RE: [Vo]:Important: NASA hacker Gary McKinnon
Probably just lizzies offloading beer and barbeque sauce for the big Equinox party in 2012. Hope we're not on the menu! Specifically, documents revealing a list of Non-terrestrial officers and off-world cargo operations somewhere out in space, hinting at the real possibility of military activities taking place in relation to other planets.
RE: [Vo]:OT: Camelot revisited
Jones - It appears from your message that you are saying that you think Cheney might want to attempt to do harm to our new president through contacts in the Secret Service. Ok, I guess *anything* is technically possible. Actually I think I saw the essential parts of that plot on a really bad movie recently - corrupt Secret Service and everything. I greatly enjoy your speculative messages about physics alternative energy, etc. But doesn't the internet provide you with a political blog or forum somehwere where you could post things like this without using Vortex for the purpose? This really is getting silly. - Rick _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 8:06 AM To: vortex Subject: [Vo]:OT: Camelot revisited snip All of that is makes for good fact-tinged fiction - but if there is a grain of truth to the recurrent suggestion that there exist a cadre of 'bad apples' remaining at high levels of goverment - pehaps even invigorated by 8 years of coddling by Dick Cheney, then Obama should be especially vigilant. There is no assurance that even the Secret Service has not been infiltrated by Cheney. snip They did not mention any special need for Cheney to stay in touch with the same people who will be protecting Obama. Guess we have to trust out govenrment on that one, no?
RE: [Vo]:Conscious and self-aware animals
Jed - So the books are over your head, huh? I'm still just trying to catch up with the concept of chimps wanting to critique their own digital images. Perhaps they'd like to edit them too? Might be interesting to see which monkey-parts they would decide to enhance. - Rick -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:40 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Conscious and self-aware animals Mike Carrell wrote: Jed is on the right track. two authors come to mind, Hofstadter and Edelman [a Nobel Laureate]. Hofstadter is author of Godel Escher Bach and I Am a Strange Loop. I have read Edelman's The Remembered Present and am reading Second Nature. All these books relate to the sudy of consciousness. These books are way over my head! I get my info from biology papers, lectures on UCTV, medical research and the books by Oliver Sacks. I alluded to some of this in chapter 10. I know about actual field research, rather than abstract and philosophical treatments. When I talk about self awareness I mean it literally, on the physical level. I mean the ability to distinguish your own body from other creatures and other objects in the environment. Low level animals such as worms do not have this. Insects have it on a limited basis, as I mentioned. They cannot distinguish between other individuals members of their own species, and they are easily fooled by decoys. Some animals have a little self awareness, while others have as much as we do. You can find examples of some in the middle. For example, cows will recognize people, and individual people, but when they see a person on a horse they fail to recognize that it is the same person they saw on the ground previously. Apparently they think of a person plus horse as one object (one creature), just as some Native Americans did when they first saw Europeans on horses from afar. We know that self-awareness is somehow hard-wired into the brain because it can be damaged or destroyed by accident or disease, as described by Sacks. Some patients do not recognize their own legs as being part of their own bodies. Other patients lose proprioreception, which I think is related. (That is, they do not know what their body is doing, or where their limbs are located.) This ability is generalized, or extended to the ability to recognize and categorize objects such as animate and inanimate objects, different species, different individuals, and the mood of different individuals and so on. I believe such abilities are more highly developed in predator species than others. Most primates including us are predators and we have it in abundance. Dogs are well known for being able to read the emotions and intentions of people, other dogs, prey animals and so on. They can distinguish between many different objects, animals and individual animals. I mentioned sheep herding dogs. What they do, in essence, is to treat the herd exactly the way wolves and other dogs treat herds of prey animals. In the wild, dogs manipulate the herd, direct its movement, read the intentions of individual members, separate out individuals, and kill them. They recognize complex situations and they can put themselves into the mind and condition of their prey to some extent, for example recognizing that a sheep with a hurt leg is moving slowly and in panic. (In other words, at some level, the dog is thinking: Ah, ha! That one looks like her leg is hurt; she's an easy target. The dog is not standing there oblivious as to why the prey animal is acting in a particular way or getting left behind.) Sheep herding dogs use exactly the same skills, only they are domesticated so they stop at the last stage and do not kill. Dogs work in packs, coordinating their efforts. Sheep herding dogs are coordinated by the human shepherd, who issues orders by whistling. They also coordinate with one another, by barking and other signaling, just as wild packs do. They think of it as a game, and they are wildly enthusiastic about it. Dogs and all other animals have specialized intelligence for specific applications which is far beyond our own. Dogs know the moods and personalities of the individual sheep. In fact, they know way more about sheep than you or I do, and probably more than the world's leading experts on sheep. Their responses and sensitivity to sheep behavior is lighting fast. If that were not the case they would have gone extinct long ago. This is not conscious knowledge; even if a dog could master language you could not interview and ask it how it does what it does. What they have is subconscious knowledge similar to the knowledge baseball player has of where a ball is likely to go the moment it has been hit. A baseball player hears the sound of the bat striking the ball and instantly knows approximately where and how far the ball is headed, and begins running in the right direction. This is very complex mathematical processing of sound,
RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
_ From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 4:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout Jed - They should magically impose their will on the party if they honestly believe it is good for the country and make people go along with them. (How? Waterboarding?) huge smile here! Does that standard also apply to Republican leaders? Of course. How about the head of the party, Pres. Bush? He feels it is good for Republicans and good for the country, so is it okay for 60% of his party to vote against him? How about the party nominee, McCain? He is reportedly in favor of this measure, although he has not actually said so, as far as I know. Politics! Works that way both sides, and that was my way of emphasizing that. I say if it was so great, AND so partisan, then all the Dems and the gang of 14+whatever Republicans would have voted for it and not worried about re-election or their voting record, constituent anger, etc. There's so much in this, political, economic, legal otherwise, we'll need lots of time to see it all, have it all unravel and be exposed. It's too many historical events too fast. These few days will be analyzed in great detail over years to come, like one of those deep space missions where the craft flashes past it's target but the data takes years to fully lay out and analyze. Very scary of course, but in a detached way kind of exciting too. I think there's some big lessons to be learned by all. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
Jed wrote Republicans thought it stank. The vote was: Democrats 140 Yea, 95 Nay Republicans 65 Yea, 133 Nay More to the point snip Even more to the point, voters are liking it about 10:1 against. So who's doing the representin' here? And Jeff is right, twice. Dems have the majority, no matter how slim. If it's good for Democrats and good for America, they need no Republican votes to pass it - they only need the Rep votes to spread accountability for bad law. Of course all this is moot to the socialists on this board anyway - this democracy nonsense is just getting in the way of the rule-by-decree status they think they deserve. Oh wait - that sounds like - yup, give the SecTreas the POWER to hand out the money when where he wants to! Good plan. Maybe ACORN can help - AGAIN - and make a list of properties for the Good Secretary. Oh hell, lets just let Johnson Raines Gorelick and Dodd etc. run it. They all have the requisite experience, right? And Barney, who had no idea he had a gay whorehouse running out of his basement, will be able to know all about everything and keep tabs it, and head off any more attempts by Rebubs or others to lift the cover on any of it going forward. AGAIN. - Rick
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Jed - environmentalists have no influence over oil companies. You're making a joke here, right? Then who was it behind implementing all our laws reflecting environmental concerns re pipelines transport, available drilling locations offshore and otherwise, refinery locations, construction and modification permits, refined fuel formulas, Global Warming etc. etc.? The Saudis? OPEC? Maybe it was the oil companies themselves so they could run the price up due to artificially constrained supply because of environmental concerns through laws created for those reasons. But then we just had a discussion about Hanlon's razor, so I don't know... - Rick
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Jed - No responsible fossil fuel industry experts or decision-makers disagree with these laws. So oil industry experts and decision makers agree with the offshore drilling ban, for instance? Do they agree with this new phony-Pelosi drill-'em-where-they-aint law? Or do they agree that the permits they apply for regarding refinery construction or upgrades, or exploration and drilling rights should indeed be held up forever or denied due to the resistance of environmental groups and the regulations generated as a result of pressure from these groups? They would if they're in on this as a conspiracy, which, while I wouldn't rule it out altogether as a possibility, I seriously doubt. But you know, maybe a little less seriously than before. Hey, having their interests nationalized overseas worked out pretty well in the long run, maybe having a similar situation evolve back home ... The laws have no impact whatever on the supply of oil, any more than pure food and drug acts have limited our supply of food. Such bans and denials as above haven't had any impact whatsoever on fuel supply or cost? Really? A denial or restriction of access to domestic supply has no effect on supply? And restrictions on supply have no effect on end user cost? Did Pelosi and her gang just repeal the laws of supply and demand? I guess that is one of the noble goals of socialism. - Rick
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Jed - You seem to believe some widespread propaganda regarding oil and energy. I suggest you read some books about the subject written by experts who have no political agenda, such as Deffeyes. Also, I suggest you spend some time reviewing the data at the Energy Information Administration: Ok, so I Google on refinery + permits. Floods the browser with EPA.. environmentalist groups ... EPA ...environmentalist groups ... Hmm, anything buried in there about not wanting permits since none are needed? Lots about refinery capacity shortage, new plants needed, refinery permits applied for... Confirms what I have heard for years from numerous sources, independent of propaganda. High efficiency diesel, coal, nuke, natural gas, even wind solar - maybe even LENR someday - there's lots of alternatives out there, and desirable whether you believe peak oil theories or not given the undisputable pollution and foreign political realities. But again this comes down to AGW, because that's where the environmentalists' hearts are at nowadays. That is indeed why oil reserves will likely not be searched out and exploited, not because of artificially constrained consumption levels created by shortages and higher cost. It is blocked by laws, lawsuits, political pressure from citizens, and government personnel both elected and appointed who have caved to the AGW hysteria. The public record is bountiful and clear on these facts. Permits have been blocked in this country for nearly three decades by political efforts primarily driven by environmentalists, heightened in the last decade or so by AGW alarm. Yes Jed, reading more about these things is good - but only if you take off the political filters that prevent you from seeing the obvious truths that may not conform to the particular agenda you endorse. - Rick
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Even Nick Palmer wrote: .. Actually it was environmentalists snip Thanks, that was my point. Why they do it is another subject. - Rick
RE: [Vo]:HAVA: Game over?
I volunteer at a polling place (Honolulu). Started doing that after the 2000 election to try to keep all that Florida style craziness from happening here. Most people here have the idea that those machines are junk and vote paper. Last election I think we had about 6 voters use the machine out of 750 or so (several had disabilities so that does help a bit with them), and we had been asked to make sure every voter knew they had the option to use the machine. But they keep pushing it harder every year. If they try to replace paper entirely here, I think there would be a public uproar. We got civicretnI traH (-Read it backwards. Sorry, search engines) for the upcoming. I'll have to check if the receipts it generates per vote have the actual votes printed on them, but I don't think they do. I know they do a full printout at the end. Our absentee voter count continues to rise, I think I read that it's now around 30% locally. The only problem I see there is that the scanners we use at the polls catch errors made on the ballot, so in-person voters have a better chance of getting their ballot voted correctly. Funny that technophiles like us would object to these the way we do. I guess it's because we know easily computer systems can often be defeated even when they're touted as being rock solid. Heck, most of the time you don't even have to *try* to get them to fail. - Rick -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:00 AM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:HAVA: Game over? Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: There is *NO* *MENTION* of a voter verified paper record. There is *NO* requirement that the voter be allowed to *see* the paper record indicating how they voted. The link you point is the 2002 law. Do you mean the replacement S.3212, Bipartisan Electronic Voting Reform Act of 2008. VerifiedVoting.org opposes it for the reasons you point out, and some other: http://www.verifiedvotingfoundation.org/article.php?id=6603 1. S.3212 allows independent vote records that would exist only in computer memory to be used to verify electronic vote totals. 2. The non-paper verification methods allowed by S. 3212 would increase the costs and burdens of conducting elections without the benefit of increased confidence and auditability. 3. Language in the bill would exempt from any verification requirement those paperless voting systems purchased before January 1, 2009 to meet HAVA's accessibility requirements. This would leave millions of voters (particularly those with disabilities) dependent on insecure paperless electronic machines for the foreseeable future. 4. S. 3212 is opaque and disturbingly open to interpretation on a critical question: would the bill require that it be the voter that verifies the contents of the independent record? . . . Fortunately, Verified Voting and other grassroots organizations have developed considerable political clout. They have been strongly supported by the New York Times and other establishment organizations. I predict that national voting machine reform will pass soon and it will be along the lines that they specify. Many states have already reformed, and decertified some of the worst voting machines. Unfortunately, Georgia is not among them. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Re: Sunspotless
Horace - If you don't think it's relevant, then you don't think you know exactly what's driving it (and you'd be right), and therefore you couldn't possibly know where it would go if you tried driving it yourself. But Horace, if you *know* that you *can* predict and even steer an immense chaotic system like planetary climate - please please pretty PLEEEASE email me your stock picks NOW!!! Again, here in a nutshell are our areas of common ground: climate change risk management (but not direct mitigation/manipulation attempts), and energy alternatives to oil. That's it. If you're good with those two and are willing to broom off the rest of the chaff - the socialist takeovers and loss of liberties, carbon caps trades, crazy high taxes and similar shenanigans, I think we could rather quickly become successful in dealing with climate change. Change in the climate would still be inevitable, as usual. Probably hotter, maybe colder. But then we'd be much better positioned to adapt flexibly and intelligently without clobbering our prosperity. Remember Rapa Nui. When you're down to your last few stands of trees and the food is running out, collective rational action to deploy the resources you have left towards practical solutions for your survival would be the right call to make. Using up those precious resources to carve giant tikis and drag them across the island to impress imaginary gods - not so much. Although, they do look pretty cool on post cards. We can prepare for the weather, but we cannot control it. That much has got to be obvious to any rational citizen of this planet. - Rick -Original Message- From: Horace Heffner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 5:50 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Sunspotless On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: (typo: 2009 in last heading) Thanks! Good points Horace, but note Rick doesn't deny global warming, he only disputes the anthropogenic explanation for some reason (maybe he owns oil fields or something?) Michel It strikes me as not directly relevant as to whether we caused this disaster or not. The fact remains that we might be able to fix it. If I had my hand in a pot of scalding water I'd want to either turn off the heat or pull my hand out. We know what our contribution of greenhouse gasses is. We have a pretty good quantitative handle on what that means in terms of greenhouse effect and overall atmospheric effect, though the effect has been grossly underestimated by calibration that occurred without understanding global dimming. If we have our hand in a pot that is 0 C and we add 30 deg.C no big deal. If we start out with the pot at 30 deg.C and add 30 deg. C we might be very uncomfortable. Now if we can prevent the extra 30 deg. C I'd think we might find we want to do that regardless the cause of the extra initial heat. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]:Re: Sunspotless
Nick - Yes, I believe that right should be taken away. Responsibilities outweigh rights. We can debate and disagree and be sarcastic and so forth on a forum like this. But to really declare for taking down the voices of dissent, you've placed yourself in a very special category, and I promise you I won't ever forget that. We Americans are actually quite fond of our right to dissent, you see. You'd think folk from your country in particular would have learned that by now. So it's not responsible from your perspective that I and others point out facts that tend to undermine the foundations of your faith. Ok, but is this all you've got? Are you sure you wouldn't care to go a step further and declare it to be, oh, I don't know, maybe ...pathological? Then you'd have a real basis for taking action. Perhaps then you could, for instance, have me relocated to a place waaay up north where I could chill out away from books and computers and things, and also have someone prescribe some medicine to keep me nice and calm so I could forget all about those heretical scientific ideas. As a fellow hang glider can we draw a truce on this now? As a fellow hang glider pilot, if I knew you were lurking anywhere near the launch site, I'd be checking my wires very carefully for file marks. . . . 'Scuse me, I must go feed the cat now. 'Scuse...must...go...feed cat ... - Rick
RE: [Vo]:Re: Sunspotless
Steven - No such insinuation was made or implied by me, but you go on and on as if I had, leading inevitably to the conclusion that I don't know what I was talking about, which of course discredits the position I have taken on this issue. Is this what you call an intellectually honest discussion? I was of course (and quite obviously) referring to the point at hand, which, instead of some pinpoint prediction of the midday temperature of Palmer AK on June 22 2031, was our predictive ability to expect climate warming given our carbon contribution. That is indeed a very large bracket, and this has always been my understanding of how attempts to understand and predict on the system have been applied, despite your baseless claim to the contrary. - Rick -Original Message- From: OrionWorks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 6:21 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Sunspotless Again, repeating a snippet of Rick Monteverde's prior comment: ... But Horace, if you *know* that you *can* predict and even steer an immense chaotic system like planetary climate - please please pretty PLEEEASE email me your stock picks NOW!!! I would second Jed's comment in regards to interpreting complex computer simulations, specifically attempts to predict global weather patterns. It is absurd to insinuate that complex computer systems attempting to predict weather patterns have been designed to pinpoint and predict specifics, such as what the temperature in Atlanta, GA will be on October 13, 2009, or when the next category 5 hurricane is predicted to crash into New Orleans. To insinuate such an argument suggests a profound lack of understanding of what these complex computer systems are attempting to do. They were designed to predict general trends, and in that department they are getting better and better at it. Jed has already stated the obvious better than what I could say, so I shan't repeat the generalities. With that said, I do get the impression that we are all on the same page when it comes to the fact that evidence shows the planet is warming up. Indeed, we can quibble forever over the details in regards to WHOSE responsible. Both proponents and skeptics should at least try to be on the same page over the fact that had all better prepare for the consequences. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Re: Sunspotless
Jed This analogy is flawed. Predicting climate change in the future is like predicting the overall trend of the market. Predicting climate change in the future is like predicting the overall trend of the market. This analogy is flawed. - Rick
RE: [Vo]:Re: Sunspotless
Jed - Chaos and complexity are two separate and unrelated characteristics. Well, they're separate anyway. A chaotic system could be very simple and still have very complex outputs. Or it might have simple and much more predictable outputs. Depends on the structure, but not necessarily the complexity, of the system. As you said, they're different. A chaotic system could also be very complex and have relatively simple and predictable outputs. The claim that the global climate has those characteristics is false to a high degree of certainty given historical records. - Rick
