Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On 9/16/08, Angus Lees [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 3:30 AM, bugs buggy [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/15/08, Angus Lees [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 10:24 PM, bugs buggy [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/31/08, Angus Lees [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oops, it seems my conversion script didn't deal with uppercase .RPL files correctly. I'll upload a fixed pair of archives as soon as gna.org is back online... If you are going to upload it again, can you make sure everything is lower case? This will save us some time. Both files, and directories. I tried carefully to preserve the case of the RPL files so that people with the original media could still use it with our now-case-sensitive warzone. I even went through the datafiles to make sure the filenames in there matched what was on the distribution media (I think that change was in the same patch as my fmv code so it may never have been applied). I made all the .ogg extensions lowercase though as a step towards consistency. Now I can easily lowercase the whole lot instead - do we care about people being able to use their original media? (probably not, since it seems noone is interested in fixing the RPL decoding code) Just lowercase everything would be my best guess, since nobody is going to be working on the RPL decoding AFAIK. We also lower cased every other file as well. Hopefully gna is updating their servers, and that is the reason for the downtime. Looks like GNA did some modifications, some people think it is faster now, but for me, it is slower than it was a few months ago. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Sunday, 31 August 2008 at 23:22, Angus Lees wrote: Please let me know if you notice any quality problems - I'm not aware of any remaining video or audio problems with the conversion process. I only had a short look at the files, fullscreen quality seems quite abysmal by my standards, but I didn't compare with the originals, probably its just the source material. But I noticed several .rpl files in the archive, what about those? ./cam1/cam1ccf.rpl ./cam1/sub1_3.rpl ./cam1/sub1_7b.rpl ./cam2/cam2_2n.rpl ./cam2/cam2_8a.rpl ./cam3/c3c.rpl ./cam3/c3_d1_a.rpl ./cam3/c3_d1_b.rpl ./cam3/cam3_1bn.rpl ./cam3/cam3_1b.rpl ./cam3/cam3_4b.rpl ./cam3/cam3_cg.rpl ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 9:48 PM, Dennis Schridde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Dienstag, 26. August 2008 14:43:28 schrieb Christian Ohm: On Thursday, 12 June 2008 at 23:54, Angus Lees wrote: So .ogg theora/vorbis is a pretty big saving in size. sequences_ogg.zip was generated via my rpl2avi wine program with the original eidos dlls and then reencoded using ffmpeg2theora - if you're interested in the resulting file or any of the pipeline just ask. Do you know how large the intermediate AVIs are? It might be nice to have the raw files somewhere for testing encoding options etc., or reencode when the Theora encoder improvements I mentioned in my last mail are finished. If I recall correctly, the devastation avi I created using Angus' rpl2avi tool was about 500MB. Yes, they're big. It doesn't even RLE encode the video frames - each one is stored totally uncompressed in the avi. If you really want the avis somewhere, I suggest you recreate them from the rpls (I can help with the tools if what I've said already isn't sufficient). -- - Gus ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Christian Ohm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, 12 June 2008 at 23:54, Angus Lees wrote: For reference, a no-fancy-options recompression of the rpl files into ogg ends up at about this resulting size: 187Msequences_ogg.zip 777Msequences_rpl.zip Could you upload the Theora files somewhere? As nobody seems to do anything regarding the videos currently, perhaps I'll have a look into it. Uploading sequences_ogg.zip to gna:warzone/videos/ now. I hope we don't have some kind of disk limit I'm about to abuse :/ Please let me know if you notice any quality problems - I'm not aware of any remaining video or audio problems with the conversion process. So .ogg theora/vorbis is a pretty big saving in size. sequences_ogg.zip was generated via my rpl2avi wine program with the original eidos dlls and then reencoded using ffmpeg2theora - if you're interested in the resulting file or any of the pipeline just ask. Do you know how large the intermediate AVIs are? It might be nice to have the raw files somewhere for testing encoding options etc., or reencode when the Theora encoder improvements I mentioned in my last mail are finished. The uncompressed avis are simply too big (many, many gigabytes - I discarded the intermediate avis during conversion so I don't actually know). I can upload the full set of RPLs as well if you want. I'm happy to reencode the oggs with different options, tools, whatever - just let me know (and feel free to ping alees at google.com if I'm not answering, I check my other accounts less and less often as the email burnout gets worse) -- - Gus ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
Am Dienstag, 26. August 2008 14:43:28 schrieb Christian Ohm: On Thursday, 12 June 2008 at 23:54, Angus Lees wrote: So .ogg theora/vorbis is a pretty big saving in size. sequences_ogg.zip was generated via my rpl2avi wine program with the original eidos dlls and then reencoded using ffmpeg2theora - if you're interested in the resulting file or any of the pipeline just ask. Do you know how large the intermediate AVIs are? It might be nice to have the raw files somewhere for testing encoding options etc., or reencode when the Theora encoder improvements I mentioned in my last mail are finished. If I recall correctly, the devastation avi I created using Angus' rpl2avi tool was about 500MB. --Devurandom signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Saturday, 14 June 2008 at 0:35, bugs buggy wrote: Right, there is no new information just by doubling the scan lines, but to my eyes, it did look better than stretching the original 320x240 to 640x480. http://xs128.xs.to/xs128/08246/linear776.png http://xs128.xs.to/xs128/08246/double-and-linear684.png This is a little creation of mine, both times scaled up 800%. The first one directly by linear interpolation, the second by doubling the pixels, then 400% by linear interpolation. You're right, the difference is very noticeable (because after doubling first, the pixels don't get blurred as much). So a pixel doubling post-processing is definitely a good idea. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
Christian Ohm schreef: On Friday, 13 June 2008 at 23:20, Giel van Schijndel wrote: AFAIK copyright law doesn't concern itself with the language or medium of expression that is used. It is only concerned with the originality of the work being expressed. Thus, if it would just be a plain translation then I am quite sure it wouldn't make a difference, regardless of the precise wording of the latest license statement. Well, iirc some games were licensed to a different company for translation and distribution. If that was the case with Warzone (which I doubt, since Eidos is large enough to do it themselves), the translation is not copyrighted by Eidos, but another company, and Eidos cannot necessarily speak for them. What I actually meant to say with my message above ^^, is that AFAIK translations aren't covered by copyright law. -- Giel signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 7:35 AM, Per Inge Mathisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 1:35 AM, Christian Ohm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For playback I'd prefer using FFMPEG to the OGG libraries directly, since this will make it easier for others to make movies for mods without lossy reencoding into obscure formats. Note that ffmpeg is not distributed by most linux distributions, because of many murky patent issues, and usually has to be separately installed by the end user. For this reason I would prefer to use the ogg libraries. Right, I originally started using libavformat/libavcodec (the ffmpeg codec libraries) but was hesitant about the burden this would mean for non-linux ports. Most linux distros will ship the 'free' ffmpeg codecs. But this doesn't include all the 'interesting' codecs, so you really only get theora (and the simpler AVI codecs) anyway. We also already require ogg/vorbis, so only adding a theora dependency is a very small addition. -- - Gus ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 5:19 AM, bugs buggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't done much with video stuff, but I used ffmpeg with a bitrate of 2400K, and used the 'double sized' video (as in, it skips ever other scanline to make the FMV appear bigger than it is), so while the original FMVs are 320x240 (and some are less than this), the one I converted is 640x480. The issue with the 320x240 is that if we stretch that out to fill the screen, then we get really ugly pixelization. Is there any filter or some other program that we can use to fix this? The original vid I converted from is 30,996,655 bytes (320x240), and the new one is 32,095,488 bytes (640x480). I'm not sure what you're intending with this 'double sizing' stuff. You aren't going to add more information to the video by doubling the scan lines, so it will appear equally as pixelized as the smaller video, stretched at display time. I rather we just skip the RPL headaches, and just convert them to ogg/theora. Would seem to be the best bet, and less code maintenance. I dunno about our mac friends, and if the RPL playback code is endian safe or not. Actually, I don't even know if the ogg playback code we have on the tracker is endian safe either. Sorry Ari. :( I'm inclined to agree about dropping the RPL code, especially since I could never get it working flawlessly :( As for endian-safe, I hope it is - I wrote it :P -- - Gus ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
Christian Ohm schreef: On Thursday, 12 June 2008 at 16:11, Giel van Schijndel wrote: Dennis Schridde schreef: Am Donnerstag, 12. Juni 2008 13:13:49 schrieb Per Inge Mathisen: I would like some input from the people who worked with the FMVs on how much work remains to integrate them properly (gerard, angus...), and I would also like to hear people's opinions on how they should be distributed. As for distribution I suggest we use a non-RPL based format. Ogg/Theora comes to mind, though I don't really mind other formats either. (As long as it's a free open format). I prefer MKV to OGM as a movie container, though for a game it doesn't really matter. Codec-wise Theora/Vorbis seems a good choice. I do like Matroska as a container as well, though I have no clue how implementing it compares to Ogg. * we create a new branch based on trunk to attempt to quickly produce working FMV code for 2.1 beta4 Why a branch? The movie code shouldn't be that difficult to reactivate (unless someone ripped it totally apart in the last months), so just doing it in the trunk seems easier to me. I would actually prefer that approach as well, if it doesn't produce large amounts of noise that is... * we put the converted FMVs in a tarball on gna.org, but not in the svn repository (too big, 300mb+) I suggest we stuff all FMVs in a .wz modpack instead of a tarball. This way no further processing will be required by those wish to download and use it (aside from dumping it in the correct directory). I suggest that we put all non-FMV data (i.e. meta data) that will have to reside in the same .wz zip file in our svn repository though. For the Windows world, rather a zip than a tarball. And a torrent would be nice as well, to spare GNA's bandwidth a bit. Well, the .wz file would be a zip file ready to drop in a mod directory for Windows, GNU/Linux and OSX all at the same time. That's at least how I had it in mind. I.e. we don't use some OS's conventional archive format, we use our own format! * for 2.1 we allow the user to play without FMVs, as before, and only optionally play them if present It's probably best to somehow register the FMVs with warzone through the WRF resource system. Then we just attempt to always play these videos and do nothing when they're not loaded through the WRF system. The infrastructure for that should still be in place, we just need code to decode and show the videos. I don't think an infrastructure like I described above has ever been there really... [snip] Apropos soundtracks. There is still MichaelB et al.'s soundtracks dangling somewhere. Maybe we could add them to beta4 as well? I've already added them to a mod pack [1] and solved out the licensing issues for those. I've also set up the NSIS installer to automatically download that mod-pack at the user's request (i.e. they just have to enable it in the components section). [1] http://download.gna.org/warzone/releases/mods/music_1.0.wz Are those all the contributed tracks, or just a selection? These are a selection made from [1] in the forums by [2]. [1] http://wiki.wz2100.net/Music_proposals [2] http://forums.wz2100.net/viewtopic.php?f=6t=1616 -- Giel signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
bugs buggy schreef: On 6/12/08, Angus Lees [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The patch I sent some time ago supported both .ogg and .rpl formats, again my intention being allowing those few people with the original game to use their .rpls (or something) and the rest of us can use .oggs. And the code is structured to allow other formats if something better turns up. I didn't see your patch on the tracker @ GNA, or maybe I am blind? The current ones are from Gerard, and one supports lua which is https://gna.org/patch/?908 and the other one is patch #885. I currently updated #885 for trunk, but it still has some issues. I would like to check out your ogg playback code, and see if it works better. I think he means the patch attached to this mailing list thread [1]. [1] https://mail.gna.org/public/warzone-dev/2007-04/msg00245.html -- Giel signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Friday, 13 June 2008 at 0:28, bugs buggy wrote: On 6/12/08, Christian Ohm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For playback I'd prefer using FFMPEG to the OGG libraries directly, since this will make it easier for others to make movies for mods without lossy reencoding into obscure formats. You mean launch a external program to handle this? I am not sure this is the best way to go on all platforms, you would also need some way to make sure each platform has ffmpeg available. No, ffmpeg is mainly a library, used in the same way the ogg libraries are used (but much more flexible). ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Friday, 13 June 2008 at 8:35, Per Inge Mathisen wrote: On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 1:35 AM, Christian Ohm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For playback I'd prefer using FFMPEG to the OGG libraries directly, since this will make it easier for others to make movies for mods without lossy reencoding into obscure formats. Note that ffmpeg is not distributed by most linux distributions, because of many murky patent issues, and usually has to be separately installed by the end user. For this reason I would prefer to use the ogg libraries. It is not? Debian has a version included (stripped of all suspicious stuff), so I'd assumed the others to include such as well. Without it, what do they do for Blender, for example? Ship a version without video support? Anyway, if ffmpeg is generally available, using it instead of the ogg libraries directly would be much more flexible. If not, well, then ogg it is. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Friday, 13 June 2008 at 0:19, bugs buggy wrote: I haven't done much with video stuff, but I used ffmpeg with a bitrate of 2400K, and used the 'double sized' video (as in, it skips ever other scanline to make the FMV appear bigger than it is), so while the Skip every other line means inserting black lines, or doubling the lines? Inserting black lines will increase the needed bitrate way too much (if you want to do that, rather do it after decoding the video), and doubling the lines won't really make it look different, will it? (And also can be done as post-processing, rather than eating bits unnecessarily.) original FMVs are 320x240 (and some are less than this), the one I converted is 640x480. The issue with the 320x240 is that if we stretch that out to fill the screen, then we get really ugly pixelization. Is there any filter or some other program that we can use to fix this? Short answer: No. Same problem as with the original textures, you can't make gold from crap. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
Hi all, On Friday, 13 June 2008 at 0:19, bugs buggy wrote: I haven't done much with video stuff, but I used ffmpeg with a bitrate of 2400K, and used the 'double sized' video (as in, it skips ever other scanline to make the FMV appear bigger than it is), so while the Skip every other line means inserting black lines, or doubling the lines? Inserting black lines will increase the needed bitrate way too much (if you want to do that, rather do it after decoding the video), and doubling the lines won't really make it look different, will it? (And also can be done as post-processing, rather than eating bits unnecessarily.) I agree here. Doing it in software *after* we have de-compressed the video is the way to go. A lot of games, however, did use this technique of adding in alternate black lines. Namely, early CC and TA spring to mind. It does work. Regards, Freddie. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
Am Freitag, 13. Juni 2008 11:24:34 schrieb Christian Ohm: On Friday, 13 June 2008 at 8:40, Giel van Schijndel wrote: Christian Ohm schreef: I prefer MKV to OGM as a movie container, though for a game it doesn't really matter. Codec-wise Theora/Vorbis seems a good choice. I do like Matroska as a container as well, though I have no clue how implementing it compares to Ogg. Well, depends on the used library. If we go with ffmpeg, it can automatically play almost every file. If we use the ogg libraries, we should use the ogg container as well. Last time I tried to create (kdenlive and avidemux, iirc) a MKV video, it would have ugly video/sound asyncs in mplayer and not play at all in xine. Found no way to fix that. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
Christian Ohm schreef: On Friday, 13 June 2008 at 8:40, Giel van Schijndel wrote: Christian Ohm schreef: I prefer MKV to OGM as a movie container, though for a game it doesn't really matter. Codec-wise Theora/Vorbis seems a good choice. I do like Matroska as a container as well, though I have no clue how implementing it compares to Ogg. Well, depends on the used library. If we go with ffmpeg, it can automatically play almost every file. If we use the ogg libraries, we should use the ogg container as well. As mentioned before, I don't think ffmpeg is a good option. This due to complications with distributing it. It's probably best to somehow register the FMVs with warzone through the WRF resource system. Then we just attempt to always play these videos and do nothing when they're not loaded through the WRF system. The infrastructure for that should still be in place, we just need code to decode and show the videos. I don't think an infrastructure like I described above has ever been there really... Hm, I thought Warzone already does this, play movie if it's available, and not if not. But it has been a while since I looked at that code. Yes, but it isn't handled by the WRF resource system at all, in fact the resource system is completely circumvented for FMVs. -- Giel signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
Dennis Schridde schreef: Am Freitag, 13. Juni 2008 16:18:12 schrieb Christian Ohm: On Friday, 13 June 2008 at 13:37, Dennis Schridde wrote: Last time I tried to create (kdenlive and avidemux, iirc) a MKV video, it would have ugly video/sound asyncs in mplayer and not play at all in xine. Found no way to fix that. Hm, all I've ever done was remuxing different containers into mkv via mkvmerge, and the result always played without problems in mplayer. Anyway, the container is the least of the problems, and ogg will be enough for a game. But I had a different thought: Are there localized versions of the fmvs? If so, are they also copyrighted by Eidos, or by some other company (i.e. could we use the audio streams of the different localizations)? There are. Dont know who owns them though. Since the readme talks pretty blank about videos we could use them in any language from my point of view. Though if it was not Eidos owning them, that would be a problem. (I somehow doubt it, though.) AFAIK copyright law doesn't concern itself with the language or medium of expression that is used. It is only concerned with the originality of the work being expressed. Thus, if it would just be a plain translation then I am quite sure it wouldn't make a difference, regardless of the precise wording of the latest license statement. -- Giel signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Friday, 13 June 2008 at 23:20, Giel van Schijndel wrote: AFAIK copyright law doesn't concern itself with the language or medium of expression that is used. It is only concerned with the originality of the work being expressed. Thus, if it would just be a plain translation then I am quite sure it wouldn't make a difference, regardless of the precise wording of the latest license statement. Well, iirc some games were licensed to a different company for translation and distribution. If that was the case with Warzone (which I doubt, since Eidos is large enough to do it themselves), the translation is not copyrighted by Eidos, but another company, and Eidos cannot necessarily speak for them. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On 6/13/08, Angus Lees [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 5:19 AM, bugs buggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't done much with video stuff, but I used ffmpeg with a bitrate of 2400K, and used the 'double sized' video (as in, it skips ever other scanline to make the FMV appear bigger than it is), so while the original FMVs are 320x240 (and some are less than this), the one I converted is 640x480. The issue with the 320x240 is that if we stretch that out to fill the screen, then we get really ugly pixelization. Is there any filter or some other program that we can use to fix this? The original vid I converted from is 30,996,655 bytes (320x240), and the new one is 32,095,488 bytes (640x480). I'm not sure what you're intending with this 'double sizing' stuff. You aren't going to add more information to the video by doubling the scan lines, so it will appear equally as pixelized as the smaller video, stretched at display time. Right, there is no new information just by doubling the scan lines, but to my eyes, it did look better than stretching the original 320x240 to 640x480. I should throw up some screen shots to show the difference. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On 6/13/08, Per Inge Mathisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:00 AM, bugs buggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll get back to the other parts, but I would like to know why the extremely short gestation period for the new contract/readme ? You blink, and you miss everything. I left the issues about this on the forums, but I rather like to know why it wasn't made public before hand, and only after the fact it was revealed. I for one was quite shocked at the exception part. I worked on getting the FMVs and soundtracks released as GPL through Pivotal. The new README with the exception was pushed by the wz2200 people who were talking directly with the EIDOS person who showed up on the forum. We managed to get some input on the README that made it better than what we had (confirmed GPL v2 *or later*, as well as a more official confirmation of the GPL release of all the data), so on the whole I am happy with it, although I am less than enthusiastic about the exception itself. Note that our code and our version does not contain the exception, so this means that wz2200 cannot use any of our code now - but I told them of this consequence and they were happy with it. - Per Thanks for the explanation. But how would one know if the code was used from a GPL project, if it is closed source? ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
[Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
For those of you who have not followed the latest events on the forum and/or IRC, EIDOS have now granted us permission to distribute both the FMVs and the soundtracks from the original game under the GPL. This bodes well for the future. It does, however, give us somewhat of a challenge for 2.1, which is way overdue. I believe there is some expectation that our next release will include the missing data now, and we should discuss if this is a good idea. I would like some input from the people who worked with the FMVs on how much work remains to integrate them properly (gerard, angus...), and I would also like to hear people's opinions on how they should be distributed. Here are my very preliminary thoughts: * we ship beta3 once we have run some quick network tests on it, tomorrow or Saturday, with an announcement of the above good news, adding that we will attempt to integrate as much as possible of it into the final 2.1 release. * we put the original soundtracks in a mod to be distributed along with beta3 * we create a new branch based on trunk to attempt to quickly produce working FMV code for 2.1 beta4 * we put the converted FMVs in a tarball on gna.org, but not in the svn repository (too big, 300mb+) * for 2.1 we allow the user to play without FMVs, as before, and only optionally play them if present * for 2.2 we try to isolate all of the campaign into a mod, so that you can pull down a single mod to enable the campaign with FMVs, and find a way for mods to 'register' their presence into the main menu, etc. Opinions? Yours Per ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
Am Donnerstag, 12. Juni 2008 13:13:49 schrieb Per Inge Mathisen: For those of you who have not followed the latest events on the forum and/or IRC, EIDOS have now granted us permission to distribute both the FMVs and the soundtracks from the original game under the GPL. This bodes well for the future. It does, however, give us somewhat of a challenge for 2.1, which is way overdue. I believe there is some expectation that our next release will include the missing data now, and we should discuss if this is a good idea. I would like some input from the people who worked with the FMVs on how much work remains to integrate them properly (gerard, angus...), and I would also like to hear people's opinions on how they should be distributed. Here are my very preliminary thoughts: * we ship beta3 once we have run some quick network tests on it, tomorrow or Saturday, with an announcement of the above good news, adding that we will attempt to integrate as much as possible of it into the final 2.1 release. * we put the original soundtracks in a mod to be distributed along with beta3 * we create a new branch based on trunk to attempt to quickly produce working FMV code for 2.1 beta4 * we put the converted FMVs in a tarball on gna.org, but not in the svn repository (too big, 300mb+) * for 2.1 we allow the user to play without FMVs, as before, and only optionally play them if present * for 2.2 we try to isolate all of the campaign into a mod, so that you can pull down a single mod to enable the campaign with FMVs, and find a way for mods to 'register' their presence into the main menu, etc. Sounds good. For modem people we could also provide a cam-novid.wz download. Apropos soundtracks. There is still MichaelB et al.'s soundtracks dangling somewhere. Maybe we could add them to beta4 as well? --Dennis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
Dennis Schridde schreef: Am Donnerstag, 12. Juni 2008 13:13:49 schrieb Per Inge Mathisen: I believe there is some expectation that our next release will include the missing data now, and we should discuss if this is a good idea. I'd say we don't include the FMVs for beta3, it'll only delay beta3 further. As for the final 2.1 I'd really love to have the FMVs in them. Though I think we shouldn't delay too long for that, as we can always release a 2.1.1 or whatever for that purpose. I would like some input from the people who worked with the FMVs on how much work remains to integrate them properly (gerard, angus...), and I would also like to hear people's opinions on how they should be distributed. As for distribution I suggest we use a non-RPL based format. Ogg/Theora comes to mind, though I don't really mind other formats either. (As long as it's a free open format). Here are my very preliminary thoughts: * we ship beta3 once we have run some quick network tests on it, tomorrow or Saturday, with an announcement of the above good news, adding that we will attempt to integrate as much as possible of it into the final 2.1 release. Sounds good. * we put the original soundtracks in a mod to be distributed along with beta3 Could be done with a similar approach to the music mod pack I've done [1] (see below). * we create a new branch based on trunk to attempt to quickly produce working FMV code for 2.1 beta4 With emphasis on *attempt*, I would prefer not to delay 2.1 much longer. As I suggested above, 2.1.1 is another option. * we put the converted FMVs in a tarball on gna.org, but not in the svn repository (too big, 300mb+) I suggest we stuff all FMVs in a .wz modpack instead of a tarball. This way no further processing will be required by those wish to download and use it (aside from dumping it in the correct directory). I suggest that we put all non-FMV data (i.e. meta data) that will have to reside in the same .wz zip file in our svn repository though. * for 2.1 we allow the user to play without FMVs, as before, and only optionally play them if present It's probably best to somehow register the FMVs with warzone through the WRF resource system. Then we just attempt to always play these videos and do nothing when they're not loaded through the WRF system. * for 2.2 we try to isolate all of the campaign into a mod, so that you can pull down a single mod to enable the campaign with FMVs, and find a way for mods to 'register' their presence into the main menu, etc. Sounds good. For modem people we could also provide a cam-novid.wz download. How about splitting up the campaign in two parts? An all except for videos and other huge media part (packed in a single .wz) and a videos and huge media part (in another .wz). That way we don't have to provide a cam-novid.wz download. Instead we can just neglect to download the cam-optional-media.wz pack. Apropos soundtracks. There is still MichaelB et al.'s soundtracks dangling somewhere. Maybe we could add them to beta4 as well? I've already added them to a mod pack [1] and solved out the licensing issues for those. I've also set up the NSIS installer to automatically download that mod-pack at the user's request (i.e. they just have to enable it in the components section). [1] http://download.gna.org/warzone/releases/mods/music_1.0.wz -- Giel signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Thursday, 12 June 2008 at 16:11, Giel van Schijndel wrote: Dennis Schridde schreef: Am Donnerstag, 12. Juni 2008 13:13:49 schrieb Per Inge Mathisen: I believe there is some expectation that our next release will include the missing data now, and we should discuss if this is a good idea. I'd say we don't include the FMVs for beta3, it'll only delay beta3 further. As for the final 2.1 I'd really love to have the FMVs in them. Though I think we shouldn't delay too long for that, as we can always release a 2.1.1 or whatever for that purpose. Agree. I would like some input from the people who worked with the FMVs on how much work remains to integrate them properly (gerard, angus...), and I would also like to hear people's opinions on how they should be distributed. As for distribution I suggest we use a non-RPL based format. Ogg/Theora comes to mind, though I don't really mind other formats either. (As long as it's a free open format). I prefer MKV to OGM as a movie container, though for a game it doesn't really matter. Codec-wise Theora/Vorbis seems a good choice. * we create a new branch based on trunk to attempt to quickly produce working FMV code for 2.1 beta4 Why a branch? The movie code shouldn't be that difficult to reactivate (unless someone ripped it totally apart in the last months), so just doing it in the trunk seems easier to me. * we put the converted FMVs in a tarball on gna.org, but not in the svn repository (too big, 300mb+) I suggest we stuff all FMVs in a .wz modpack instead of a tarball. This way no further processing will be required by those wish to download and use it (aside from dumping it in the correct directory). I suggest that we put all non-FMV data (i.e. meta data) that will have to reside in the same .wz zip file in our svn repository though. For the Windows world, rather a zip than a tarball. And a torrent would be nice as well, to spare GNA's bandwidth a bit. * for 2.1 we allow the user to play without FMVs, as before, and only optionally play them if present It's probably best to somehow register the FMVs with warzone through the WRF resource system. Then we just attempt to always play these videos and do nothing when they're not loaded through the WRF system. The infrastructure for that should still be in place, we just need code to decode and show the videos. * for 2.2 we try to isolate all of the campaign into a mod, so that you can pull down a single mod to enable the campaign with FMVs, and find a way for mods to 'register' their presence into the main menu, etc. Sounds good. For modem people we could also provide a cam-novid.wz download. How about splitting up the campaign in two parts? An all except for videos and other huge media part (packed in a single .wz) and a videos and huge media part (in another .wz). That way we don't have to provide a cam-novid.wz download. Instead we can just neglect to download the cam-optional-media.wz pack. What he said. Apropos soundtracks. There is still MichaelB et al.'s soundtracks dangling somewhere. Maybe we could add them to beta4 as well? I've already added them to a mod pack [1] and solved out the licensing issues for those. I've also set up the NSIS installer to automatically download that mod-pack at the user's request (i.e. they just have to enable it in the components section). [1] http://download.gna.org/warzone/releases/mods/music_1.0.wz Are those all the contributed tracks, or just a selection? ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On Thursday, 12 June 2008 at 23:54, Angus Lees wrote: My intention with the fmvs originally was to provide a separate 'fmv.wz' which could just be dropped into the right directory - as other's have suggested. Look for the movie and fall back to current behaviour if not found (and when the movie ends). Distros-and-whatever would presumably package it separately, and (when the legal situation was murky) users could choose to download/distribute it themselves. The patch I sent some time ago supported both .ogg and .rpl formats, again my intention being allowing those few people with the original game to use their .rpls (or something) and the rest of us can use .oggs. And the code is structured to allow other formats if something better turns up. Since the reencoded movies are quite a bit smaller and can now definitely be redistributed, the RPL code isn't really needed anymore, I think. For playback I'd prefer using FFMPEG to the OGG libraries directly, since this will make it easier for others to make movies for mods without lossy reencoding into obscure formats. For reference, a no-fancy-options recompression of the rpl files into ogg ends up at about this resulting size: 187Msequences_ogg.zip 777Msequences_rpl.zip So .ogg theora/vorbis is a pretty big saving in size. sequences_ogg.zip was generated via my rpl2avi wine program with the original eidos dlls and then reencoded using ffmpeg2theora - if you're interested in the resulting file or any of the pipeline just ask. What codec was the intermediate AVI? If it was lossy, the double reencoding degraded the quality/size more than necessary (i.e. with direct encoding to the target format the files could be smaller or of better quality (or even both)). As for the original patch, it was deliberately against 2.0, since I figured that was where the unmodified game was (this may not be the intention anymore however). I tried briefly to port it to svn head, but I don't think I finished the job. I can easily throw what I've got into an svn branch and everyone can hack on it, although there seemed little interest from other developers last time.. I guess because of the uncertainty regarding the movies it never made it into SVN and thus fell by the wayside. My code always had a strange opengl bug I could never track down: after playing an fmv, the closest LOD textures were corrupted. As far as I could work out I was correctly resetting the texture page and other obvious things - I figure I wasn't cleaning up sufficiently after the various YUV opengl shenanigans and I expect someone who actually understands GL would be able to spot it fairly easily. The RPL dec130 decoder also always had some output corruption I could never work out. The ogg/theora decoder works fine though. Oh and I hadn't reverted enough of our hacks to be able to show the windowed research videos again, but that should be quite possible. Is the YUV stuff really necessary? I don't really know the OGG libs, but FFMPEG includes yuv2rgb conversion that could be used as a baseline, and the OpenGL YUV converters as optional optimizations. That also has the advantage of working always (if not that fast, but for the low-res FMVs that shouldn't matter much) - IIRC none of the mplayer OpenGL YUV variants works correctly on my system. -- * dark has changed the topic on channel #debian to: Later tonight: After months of careful refrigeration, Debian 2.0 is finally cool enough to release. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
Am Freitag, 13. Juni 2008 01:13:39 schrieb Christian Ohm: For the Windows world, rather a zip than a tarball. And a torrent would be nice as well, to spare GNA's bandwidth a bit. Last time I talked to Gna about this, they said that bandwith is not remotely an issue for them. --Dennis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On 6/12/08, Per Inge Mathisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those of you who have not followed the latest events on the forum and/or IRC, EIDOS have now granted us permission to distribute both the FMVs and the soundtracks from the original game under the GPL. This bodes well for the future. Opinions? Yours Per I'll get back to the other parts, but I would like to know why the extremely short gestation period for the new contract/readme ? You blink, and you miss everything. I left the issues about this on the forums, but I rather like to know why it wasn't made public before hand, and only after the fact it was revealed. I for one was quite shocked at the exception part. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On 6/12/08, Angus Lees [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The patch I sent some time ago supported both .ogg and .rpl formats, again my intention being allowing those few people with the original game to use their .rpls (or something) and the rest of us can use .oggs. And the code is structured to allow other formats if something better turns up. I didn't see your patch on the tracker @ GNA, or maybe I am blind? The current ones are from Gerard, and one supports lua which is https://gna.org/patch/?908 and the other one is patch #885. I currently updated #885 for trunk, but it still has some issues. I would like to check out your ogg playback code, and see if it works better. For reference, a no-fancy-options recompression of the rpl files into ogg ends up at about this resulting size: 187Msequences_ogg.zip 777Msequences_rpl.zip So .ogg theora/vorbis is a pretty big saving in size. sequences_ogg.zip was generated via my rpl2avi wine program with the original eidos dlls and then reencoded using ffmpeg2theora - if you're interested in the resulting file or any of the pipeline just ask. I haven't done much with video stuff, but I used ffmpeg with a bitrate of 2400K, and used the 'double sized' video (as in, it skips ever other scanline to make the FMV appear bigger than it is), so while the original FMVs are 320x240 (and some are less than this), the one I converted is 640x480. The issue with the 320x240 is that if we stretch that out to fill the screen, then we get really ugly pixelization. Is there any filter or some other program that we can use to fix this? The original vid I converted from is 30,996,655 bytes (320x240), and the new one is 32,095,488 bytes (640x480). As for the original patch, it was deliberately against 2.0, since I figured that was where the unmodified game was (this may not be the intention anymore however). I tried briefly to port it to svn head, but I don't think I finished the job. I can easily throw what I've got into an svn branch and everyone can hack on it, although there seemed little interest from other developers last time.. My code always had a strange opengl bug I could never track down: after playing an fmv, the closest LOD textures were corrupted. As far as I could work out I was correctly resetting the texture page and other obvious things - I figure I wasn't cleaning up sufficiently after the various YUV opengl shenanigans and I expect someone who actually understands GL would be able to spot it fairly easily. The RPL dec130 decoder also always had some output corruption I could never work out. The ogg/theora decoder works fine though. Oh and I hadn't reverted enough of our hacks to be able to show the windowed research videos again, but that should be quite possible. -- - Gus I rather we just skip the RPL headaches, and just convert them to ogg/theora. Would seem to be the best bet, and less code maintenance. I dunno about our mac friends, and if the RPL playback code is endian safe or not. Actually, I don't even know if the ogg playback code we have on the tracker is endian safe either. Sorry Ari. :( Maybe Jobs will give the devs a few macs so we can test? ;) ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On 6/12/08, Christian Ohm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, 12 June 2008 at 23:54, Angus Lees wrote: My intention with the fmvs originally was to provide a separate 'fmv.wz' which could just be dropped into the right directory - as other's have suggested. Look for the movie and fall back to current behaviour if not found (and when the movie ends). Distros-and-whatever would presumably package it separately, and (when the legal situation was murky) users could choose to download/distribute it themselves. The patch I sent some time ago supported both .ogg and .rpl formats, again my intention being allowing those few people with the original game to use their .rpls (or something) and the rest of us can use .oggs. And the code is structured to allow other formats if something better turns up. Since the reencoded movies are quite a bit smaller and can now definitely be redistributed, the RPL code isn't really needed anymore, I think. For playback I'd prefer using FFMPEG to the OGG libraries directly, since this will make it easier for others to make movies for mods without lossy reencoding into obscure formats. You mean launch a external program to handle this? I am not sure this is the best way to go on all platforms, you would also need some way to make sure each platform has ffmpeg available. Right now, I am playing around with ogg libraries... For reference, a no-fancy-options recompression of the rpl files into ogg ends up at about this resulting size: 187Msequences_ogg.zip 777Msequences_rpl.zip So .ogg theora/vorbis is a pretty big saving in size. sequences_ogg.zip was generated via my rpl2avi wine program with the original eidos dlls and then reencoded using ffmpeg2theora - if you're interested in the resulting file or any of the pipeline just ask. What codec was the intermediate AVI? If it was lossy, the double reencoding degraded the quality/size more than necessary (i.e. with direct encoding to the target format the files could be smaller or of better quality (or even both)). For my experiment into this, I just dumped out each frame, and the sound, and then used ffmpeg to make that into a ogg/theora video. I used a bitrate of 2400K (unsure what I should use), and the results are pretty much what the originals look like. The only other thing I was trying to figure out is, that the original videos are all 320x240 or less. The 'full screen' option renders the video every other scanline. If you know a good way to upscale from 320x240 without big ugly pixelazation, I am all ears. :) ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
Re: [Warzone-dev] FMVs released as GPL, and the 2.1 release
On 6/12/08, Per Inge Mathisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are my very preliminary thoughts: * we ship beta3 once we have run some quick network tests on it, tomorrow or Saturday, with an announcement of the above good news, adding that we will attempt to integrate as much as possible of it into the final 2.1 release. * we put the original soundtracks in a mod to be distributed along with beta3 I agree that beta3 should be shipped ASAP. We need to test the netcode with all platforms! Finding Mac people with free time is a huge problem though. There must be someplace where we can get some mac people to test out the builds with us? Anyone know a good place to post the 'Help wanted' sign? Forums seem to be a very low traffic area for Mac people. I know that debian needs to have something in unstable for at least 10 days, before it can get into lenny, and the freeze date for that is July. We can also assume that when that is done, Ubuntu (and the others?) will finally update their (ancient) version of warzone that they have. * we create a new branch based on trunk to attempt to quickly produce working FMV code for 2.1 beta4 Off trunk? I am not sure that is the best bet, unless we do some reverting? (yeah, I know the patch I did is off trunk., but I am having 2nd thoughts about that.) * we put the converted FMVs in a tarball on gna.org, but not in the svn repository (too big, 300mb+) I dunno where you come up with 300MB, since originals are around 700MB or so, and the converted videos are more or less 1:1 in size, but are a larger resolution. (320x240 vs 640x480) (well, with the bitrate I talk about before) * for 2.1 we allow the user to play without FMVs, as before, and only optionally play them if present That IS what it does now. If file not found, then it don't play. If found, then it plays. (speaking about patch #885) * for 2.2 we try to isolate all of the campaign into a mod, so that you can pull down a single mod to enable the campaign with FMVs, and find a way for mods to 'register' their presence into the main menu, etc. Not sure that is needed. For windows, the installer can query the enduser what they want, and download from where-ever. For the other platforms, I have no idea. I don't like any binary data in svn, it just doesn't do a good job with it. ___ Warzone-dev mailing list Warzone-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/warzone-dev
