Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: First round of Working Group members

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi All,

as someone around for 10+ years I must say never really felt reached out to
by these initiatives.

As the years passed I saw smaller and smaller chance to "get in" anywhere
without building some sort of a(n) (international) wiki career first, what
means years of stepping up on a corporate-esque ladder, spending the
appropriate time on each level, before becoming eligible to step up.

Note, we talk about an advisory board here, not decision making.

This pretty much kills volunteerism in the wikimedia movement.

If one suggestion can be shouted in from the sideline, I'd suggest to think
about excluding all who currently has or had in the past 12 months any
formal position in the movement (board members, committee members,
employees and all equivalent).

If anyone is interested in new voices.

Regards,
Balazs

Paulo Santos Perneta  ezt írta (2018. július 27.,
péntek):

> Hello Jane,
>
> >
> ​
> I think that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe
> "some languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing
> languages on the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and
> offline".
>
> ​I don't know why do you wrote this, as I never had this impression, at
> all. We are split by languages since ​the Babel Tower was embargoed by God,
> but I never, ever remember hearing someone saying or even hinting that
> "some languages are better than others".
>
> All the best,
>
> Paulo
>
>
> 2018-07-25 8:28 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell :
>
> > Hmm. Yes and no. Yes the May 2017 conference suffered from some
> interesting
> > selection bias, but no the people there were not all brainwashed into
> > forgetting their "wildness". We are all still wild wild Wikipedians at
> > heart, speaking for the 2006 cohort in its entirety. I really doubt
> whether
> > the WMF is trying to shove us all in a direction of their choosing.
> > ​​
> > I think
> > that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe "some
> > languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing languages
> on
> > the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and offline". Then
> > there is a huge discrepancy in workflow for these people and the folks
> who
> > work in just one language and never think of language as a movement topic
> > at all. Among this monolingual crowd (many of whom do not subscribe to
> any
> > mailing list or other communication outlets) are the overlapping groups
> > between the "field workers" and the "library workers". The field workers
> > tend to operate more by a "drive-by" methodology, and the "library
> workers"
> > tend to operate more by a "step-by-step" methodology. I respectfully
> submit
> > that we have all dabbled in all of these worlds and therefore we all have
> > enough common sense to shout "Whoa!" if something really really wrong
> gets
> > proposed. But in the past I have felt quite strongly that something was
> > really really wrong, but it turned out it was just a factor of me being
> > unaware of workflow difficulties experienced by others. So e.g.
> personally
> > I was against the idea of "protected pages" but have come around to
> seeing
> > they are useful - even on Wikidata.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Anders Wennersten <
> > m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:
> >
> > > As I see it the strategy process is run for the functionaries in the
> > > movement and by them. People with focus on contributing to the projects
> > are
> > > not involved, when volunteers is mentioned it is mostly people running
> > > worskhops for beginners etc, a kind of semi functionaries, not the hard
> > > core contributes.
> > >
> > > This could be a good thing and foster a new set of moment leaders,
> fully
> > > in agreement with goals and strategy. It could also be seen as a
> > weakness,
> > > as we do not recognize the more "wild" (but creative)y culture in our
> > > communities and only have the "nice" and obedient culture being
> accepted.
> > >
> > > Facts
> > >
> > > The vision  was really created in Wikiconf 2017 by functionaries
> > >
> > > The way forward was defined by Wikiconf 2017 by functionaries
> > >
> > > The set up of work groups was from the beginning set up  to include
> > (only)
> > > functionaries (time requirement, and first it was also talked of
> > candidates
> > > should be endorsed by local chapters). And the actual selection was not
> > > done transparent as is the culture of the communities but by "boss"
> > > selection (I only feel the movement is starting to resemble a big
> > company,
> > > not the vibrant communities)
> > >
> > > Anders
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Den 2018-07-24 kl. 21:29, skrev Yaroslav Blanter:
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 9:16 PM, David Cuenca Tudela <
> dacu...@gmail.com
> > >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I do not know what really happened but if I listen to what has been
> said
> > >> here and earlier on similar occasions, my conclusion is that for the
> > >> Strategy Team we - 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Balázs Viczián]

Thank you Asaf. This seems to be a mixture of ppl mgmt and org skills,
shifted heavily towards the latter. The last time I was at wmcon was 2014
[1] when this was bearly a topic at all, only touched it here and there a
bit, when it was inevitable.

Good to see the progress on this.

Hi Mike,

perhaps in the future one could undergo such a review before a crisis
happens. Like a medical checkup, not yearly thoufh, but say every 3-5 years
to prevent/treat in early stage such events.

So far all governance reviews (including this) were responses to a collapse.

[1]  https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2014



Michael Peel  ezt írta (2018. július 12., csütörtök):

> Nominally, the WMF is going to be the next Wikimedia organisation to do a
> governance review, as per:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_recommendations/2015-2016_
> round_2#Wikimedia_Foundation
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/2017-11-17,
> 18,19#Governance_Review
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> > On 11 Jul 2018, at 02:36, Balázs Viczián 
> wrote:
> >
> > This report is pretty useful in terms of comparing my chapter's policies
> to
> > this. Probably some fine tuning will follow. Thank you for sharing!
> >
> > Note the pattern: UK, Germany, France, all 'big' chapters. My guess is
> that
> > the next one will very likely to be another 'large' chapter (100+
> members,
> > multiple employees, many paralel projects etc)
> >
> > As the report says very few has at least some experience in running
> > organizations (true worldwide) so no suprise such events happen every few
> > years, not to say those that stay 'local'.
> >
> > Just having 50-100-150k edits is not enough to be a 'boss'
> >
> > Would love to see people management skills workshops, and organizational
> > skills (logistics) workshops...but I attend an event only every 2-3 years
> > (or less), so this is just an almost silent suggestion :)
> >
> > Balazs
> >
> > 2018. júl. 10. 7:44 ezt írta ("Alphos OGame" ):
> >
> > Forgive my (usual ?) bluntness, but I don't think congratulations are in
> > order for undertaking the governance review ;-)
> >
> > As a member and unwilling observer, I can tell you it was dearly needed,
> be
> > it by internal or external auditors, and mandated by the WMF.
> >
> > However, as a long time member of the community and of Wikimedia France,
> I
> > do salute the effort of publishing the results of the review, as the
> > previous board of directors probably wouldn't have wanted to publish
> > anything critical of their method of governance ; and the review covers
> > both old and more recent times.
> > That indeed deserves credit, so thank you Nadine !
> >
> > @ Cornelius : smart thinking on your part, collecting them in one place.
> I
> > hope there won't be any more crisis requiring a governance review in one
> of
> > our chapters, but in any case it will be interesting for all chapters to
> > know what to avoid in the future, and where to look for it, so thank you
> as
> > well.
> >
> > Roger / Alphos
> >
> >
> >
> >> Le 9 juil. 2018 à 13:44, Chris Keating  a
> > écrit :
> >>
> >> Congratulations to Wikimedia France for undertaking this review and
> >> publishing the results.
> >>
> >> I believe all of the 3 governance reviews are important reading for
> >> anyone involved with the WMF or any of the affiliates, and all have
> >> important lessons for the movement. It's interesting to note that this
> >> is the first one that touches on the WMF-affiliate relationship in
> >> much detail.
> >>
> >> Also - while so far governance reviews have only happened as a result
> >> of a crisis, this doesn't have to be the case! I would urge Wikimedia
> >> affiliates to take external advice on their governance, the
> >> suggestions offered by governance experts who know the laws, norms and
> >> cutlure in which you operate will be very helpful for you.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >> (who was Chair of Wikimedia UK at the point we had a governance
> review...)
> >>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin <
> nlelir...@wikimedia.fr>
> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment
> Report
> >>> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and
> we
> >>> want to share it with you.
> >>>
> >>> The auditors 

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Balázs Viczián]

This report is pretty useful in terms of comparing my chapter's policies to
this. Probably some fine tuning will follow. Thank you for sharing!

Note the pattern: UK, Germany, France, all 'big' chapters. My guess is that
the next one will very likely to be another 'large' chapter (100+ members,
multiple employees, many paralel projects etc)

As the report says very few has at least some experience in running
organizations (true worldwide) so no suprise such events happen every few
years, not to say those that stay 'local'.

Just having 50-100-150k edits is not enough to be a 'boss'

Would love to see people management skills workshops, and organizational
skills (logistics) workshops...but I attend an event only every 2-3 years
(or less), so this is just an almost silent suggestion :)

Balazs

2018. júl. 10. 7:44 ezt írta ("Alphos OGame" ):

Forgive my (usual ?) bluntness, but I don't think congratulations are in
order for undertaking the governance review ;-)

As a member and unwilling observer, I can tell you it was dearly needed, be
it by internal or external auditors, and mandated by the WMF.

However, as a long time member of the community and of Wikimedia France, I
do salute the effort of publishing the results of the review, as the
previous board of directors probably wouldn't have wanted to publish
anything critical of their method of governance ; and the review covers
both old and more recent times.
That indeed deserves credit, so thank you Nadine !

@ Cornelius : smart thinking on your part, collecting them in one place. I
hope there won't be any more crisis requiring a governance review in one of
our chapters, but in any case it will be interesting for all chapters to
know what to avoid in the future, and where to look for it, so thank you as
well.

Roger / Alphos



> Le 9 juil. 2018 à 13:44, Chris Keating  a
écrit :
>
> Congratulations to Wikimedia France for undertaking this review and
> publishing the results.
>
> I believe all of the 3 governance reviews are important reading for
> anyone involved with the WMF or any of the affiliates, and all have
> important lessons for the movement. It's interesting to note that this
> is the first one that touches on the WMF-affiliate relationship in
> much detail.
>
> Also - while so far governance reviews have only happened as a result
> of a crisis, this doesn't have to be the case! I would urge Wikimedia
> affiliates to take external advice on their governance, the
> suggestions offered by governance experts who know the laws, norms and
> cutlure in which you operate will be very helpful for you.
>
> Chris
> (who was Chair of Wikimedia UK at the point we had a governance review...)
>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin 
wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment Report
>> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and we
>> want to share it with you.
>>
>> The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding
of
>> our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement suggestions
>> they delivered.
>>
>> The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the
rebuilding
>> – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at next
>> General Assembly, by the end of the year.
>>
>> The document has been translated in English and is now available on
>> Commons[2].
>>
>> May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also
for
>> any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance advice
>> or ideas.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Nadine Le Lirzin
>> *Wikimedia France Board Secretary*
>>
>>
>> [1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-
June/090413.html
>> [2]
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_France_-_
Governance_Assessment_Report_-_2018.pdf
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,


___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Emerging Communities: a proposed new definition

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi Asaf et All,

Hope I won't get skipped because I barely talk on this list or in general
on an international level but this proposal could have a long term effect
on my chapter.

Happy to see WMF is ready to start giving up at least a bit on geography or
census numbers and shift focus to existing communities based on their
actual state and health.

I would suggest not stopping here but going forward by completely
abandoning geography and such overgeneralization where the entire world can
be described by 3 (that is three) labels.

Instead evaluate each community topic by topic.

Say one: governance. Even WMF itself had such a crisis, not to say the
British, German and now the French "developed" chapters. For them, better
organized but ever labeled "emerging" communities might have been able to
provide support, if their category would not be discouraging them from
stepping in.

Discouraging, yup. Put your hands on your hearts and be honest. We all
think that at least on a general level the "developed" should teach and
support the "emerging" and not the other way around, right?

Yet said governance as an example appears to be a lot more problematic for
the ever "developed" than the ever "emerging".

This proposal does not recognize such patterns but it is a big step forward
nevertheless as it shifts more focus on the existing communities. The
labels are in my subjective opinion are somewhat patronizing as per above.

Balazs,
from an ever "emerging" community

On Sep 27, 2017 19:30, "Asaf Bartov"  wrote:

> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> Years ago, as part of the first Strategy process of 2009-2010, a
> distinction entered our lives, between Global North and Global South
> countries.  That distinction was borrowed from a United Nations agency
> named ITU, and it was used as shorthand to refer to communities the
> Foundation considered to need additional resources and help to achieve
> impact on our mission of creating and sharing free knowledge.
>
> However, the distinction was never a very good fit for us.  It was based on
> UN notions like the Human Development Index, and gave much weight to
> nation-wide economic conditions.  Its binary nature did not allow for
> distinguishing between countries where Wikimedia work is possible and
> happening, albeit with difficulty, and ones where no Wikimedia work, or
> next to none, is happening, or possible.  It also looked only at geography,
> whereas much of our work is defined by language communities and not by
> geographies.  And it was political and alienating to many people.
>
> In short, it was both not as useful as we needed it to be as well as
> unloved and rejected by many.
>
> The Community Resources team at the Wikimedia Foundation has been thinking
> about replacing that distinction with a more nuanced one, that would be a
> much better fit with our needs, would take into account the actual state of
> editing communities, would consider multiple axes beyond geography, and
> would be less controversial.
>
> We began using the term "emerging communities" two years ago, first as a
> replacement for the term Global South, but it has always been our intention
> to define Emerging Communities ourselves.  Finishing the proposed
> definition took a back seat for a while due to other priorities, but we are
> ready to share the proposed definition today:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Engagement/
> Defining_Emerging_Communities
>
>
> We welcome your thoughts, on the talk page (ideally) or on this thread.
> The definition is already our working definition, but we are open to
> incorporating changes to both wording and substance through October 31st.
>
> Be sure to take a look at the FAQ supplied at the bottom of the page, too.
> :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Asaf
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] What kind of ED would you like to see?

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi all,

reading all the above, my 2 cents would be: Internal promotion (in a
broader sense: a current or ex-employee or someone 'close and experienced
enough').

First as interim (as a 'probation period') then if the staff feedback meets
the pre-agreed satisfaction level on agreed key areas, as permanent.

Balazs
2016.02.27. 5:24, "George Herbert"  ezt írta:

> On the Vision thing -
>
> There is a leadership vision, and an organizational/movement vision.
>
> The leader should articulate theirs.  The organizational one needs to come
> from everyone but would likely be articulated by the ED after that process.
>
> George William Herbert
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 26, 2016, at 4:58 PM, Greg Grossmeier  wrote:
> >
> > 
> >> Greg, agree 100%, but that's not how I understood the question and the
> >> results of the staff survey. It seemed the staff expected the vision
> from
> >> the ED/Management.
> >
> > I think you're misinterpreting.
> >
> > The agree/disagree statement was:
> > "Senior leadership at Wikimedia have communicated a vision that
> > motivates me"  (7% agree)
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-01-06/News_and_notes#WMF_staff_morale
> >
> > See also, this quote in glassdoor, quoted in the Signpost as well:
> > "The Executive Director unveils a new strategy every three months or
> > so."
> >
> > So, it's not that people wanted the vision solely from the
> > ED/Management, it's that they wanted a not constantly changing one.
> >
> > This is getting off topic, however.
> >
> > The point is, a vision does not need to come from one person, which you
> > agree with. A good vision comes from many people working together
> > collaboratively. Then sticking with it to see it through. Consistency is
> > needed in an ED.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > --
> > | Greg GrossmeierGPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
> > | identi.ca: @gregA18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

[Balázs Viczián]

As long as the "cabal" who "took full control" of Wikimania is capable of
fully organizing it (or able to set up an organizing team anywhere in the
world), I think this is nothing else but a step called: professionalisation.

Actually if it works well, it can bring this event to regions and places
where otherwise it could not be made (i.e. lack of or insufficient or
unreliable local volunteer manpower / no local org / whatever ) reducing
the location problem only to logistics, thus widening the possibilities
greatly.

I would love to see a fix event organizer team, let it be volunteer based
(like the CEE meeting, which was a success) or paid staff (like WMDE has).

Balázs

2015-10-05 15:53 GMT+02:00 Steffen Prößdorf :

> Am 04.10.2015 um 20:06 schrieb Ilario Valdelli:
>
>> On 04.10.2015 19:48, Pavel Richter wrote:
>>
>>> 2015-10-04 17:42 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard :
>>>
>>> Le 04/10/15 16:15, Theo10011 a écrit :
 Now, beside head rolling... (uh, ouch :)) what do you suggest to fix
 that ?

>>>
>>>
>>> So, what happened? The Wikimania committee came to the conclusion
>>> that the
>>> current process to select the next Wikimania host is broken (and I think
>>> the committee was right about that). So something needed to happen - and
>>> the committee did something that we
>>> ​see ​
>>> not often enough in Wikimedia-land: *they made a decision*.
>>>
>>
>> This is good.
>>
>> But I think that the main point to fix is that a decision is valid as
>> soon it is communicated.
>>
>> At the moment it does not seem that the local communities were
>> informed in order to know that the process was broken.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
> This fits in quite a number of decisions. Better no one can say that
> Wikimania isn't a community event anymore, but a Foundation event instead
> of.
>
> Why asking anyone else?
>
> Fuck the community, who cares?
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2014-15 Wikimedia Fundraising Report

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

This job is pretty impressive, congratulations to the team :)

Is there a per country breakdown available somewhere?

Balázs

2015-10-02 18:56 GMT+02:00 Megan Hernandez :

> Hi Rodrigo,
>
> Thank you for the question and for all your help with the latest Brazil
> campaign!  I've copied your question over to the talk page and replied
> there to keep track of the comments together in one spot.
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising/2014-15_Report#Latin_America_Question
>
> Thanks!
>
> Megan
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 11:38 PM, Rodrigo Padula 
> wrote:
>
> > Excellent report!
> >
> > I'm really impressed with the low level of donations from Latina America.
> >
> > We need to do something to stimulate people to contribute a little bit
> more
> > to our mission.
> >
> > During the first two weeks of the campaign in Brasil, I received a lot of
> > messages from friends requesting information about the Wikipedia banners
> > asking for donations, a lot of people thought that it was spam, spyware
> or
> > something fake. So, I guess the low level of donations from Brasil
> > (specially) can be linked with that issue.
> >
> > In August I started a local effort talking to some journalists regarding
> > the importance of the donations to our movement.
> >
> > I contacted some of our contacts to spread it, and many posts was
> published
> > here regarding the fund-raising campaign, with a really good impact.
> >
> >
> http://bit.blog.br/wikipedia-pede-doacoes-para-ajudar-a-manter-site-no-ar/
> > ( interview replicated on twitter and facebook of
> > http://diariodepernambuco.com.br/ to more than 800.000 followers)
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.gazetadopovo.com.br/vida-e-cidadania/wikipedia-comeca-nova-campanha-de-doacoes-para-manter-site-funcionando-cdlzioae60haolfoz3l6ohm1c
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.tecmundo.com.br/wikipedia/84931-wikipedia-volta-pedir-doacoes-leitores-manter-ar.htm
> >
> >
> >
> http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/tec/2015/08/1670681-wikipedia-comeca-nova-campanha-de-doacoes-para-manter-site-funcionando.shtml
> >
> >
> >
> http://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2015/08/wikipedia-pede-doacoes-para-se-manter-independente.html
> >
> > What we can do to help to improve the local level of donations? I'm
> really
> > interested to help with that problem here and our user group can spend
> some
> > time on it, for sure it is something that need some attention.
> >
> > How can I get more information about the donations from Brasil, mainly to
> > identify if after the news published by the local media it improved(or
> not)
> > the level of donations?
> >
> > There are any way to track it?
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Rodrigo Padula
> > Project Manager / User Group Coordinator
> > Wikimedia Brazilian Community User Group of Education and Research
> > http://www.wikimedia.org.br
> >
> > 2015-09-30 22:36 GMT-03:00 Megan Hernandez :
> >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > The fundraising team is happy to share the report on the 2014-15 fiscal
> > > year fundraising.  Please take a look at the report
> > > 
> and
> > we
> > > look forward to your feedback on the report talk page
> > > .
> > >
> > > Thank you to Wikimedia volunteers, readers, donors, staff and
> fundraising
> > > team for making this the most successful year yet.
> > >
> > > Megan Hernandez
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Megan Hernandez
> > >
> > > Director of Online Fundraising
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Megan Hernandez
>
> Director of Online Fundraising
> Wikimedia Foundation
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel

[Balázs Viczián]

Relocating within the US or worldwide?

Relocating the whole office or just some departments?

Vince

2015-04-08 7:07 GMT+02:00 Aleksey Bilogur aleksey.bilo...@gmail.com:

 A logistical non-starter! They've got 200+ staff members, any gains to
 recruitment competitiveness will be quickly lost to the drain that losing
 whatever significant percent of the staff that doesn't make the move incurs
 on the organization.
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel

[Balázs Viczián]

My two cents would be that of what evil giant corporations do: move their
departments to the best place possible regarding costs/competition.
Software development in SF, customer service to India :)

For example keeping the sofware somewhere in the Bay Area would keep the
potential to attract highly qualified software guys. While others, for
example grantmaking would do better in my opinion in the old continent
(that is 'Yurp'). In London or Paris or Berlin, you can select from a wide
and deep pool of experts yet still cheaper than SF. Note, about 50-70
percent of the chapters/thorgs/etc. would be within 2-4 hrs of flight and
virtually all would be on a direct flight. Lots of saving on travelling
costs for those that has to travel the most.

You can play with the rest as you wish. Finance for example don't travel
anywhere except the top management (1-2 ppl), so they can be in East St
Louis :)

My British company where I work has its finance in the Czech Republic, and
its IT support in India for instance.

Balazs

2015-04-08 20:29 GMT+02:00 Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com:

 On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:58 PM Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Questions:
 
  What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its
 current
  location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the
  remodel by the building owner?
 
  I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
  area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have
  less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this
  being considered?
 

 Keep in mind that the WMF already mitigates the cost and competition of the
 San Francisco Bay Area market by recruiting remote employees.

 According to the recent report (

 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:State_of_the_Wikimedia_Foundation.pdf
 )
 a large number are based either in other U.S. states or internationally.
 Out of 202 employees, 77% are US-based in 19 states and 23% are based
 abroad in 19 countries.

 Combine the remote employees in the U.S. and abroad, I wouldn't be
 surprised if close to half of staff are based remotely. On engineering
 teams especially, it's not uncommon for a majority of employees to be
 remote.
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Events and editathons with journalists

[Balázs Viczián]

Wikimedia Hungary did a workshop as well with sport journalists.

What we learnt is to keep it simple (teaching the basics is enough) and
brake it into multiple rounds (we broke it into two rounds - not enough)
and make it interactive (edit together from the first to the last sec).

Hope I helped a bit :)

Balázs
2015.02.27. 0:42, Winifred Olliff woll...@wikimedia.org ezt írta:

 Hello, Andrea:

 This sounds like an interesting project!

 Here are some examples that popped into my head right away:
 *CIS (is planning a workshop for journalists as part of Kannada language
 outreach)
 *Wikimedia CH (did some work building a network of journalism schools)
 *Wikimedia Argentina (did at least one workshop for journalists back in
 2012 in Rosario City)
 *Wikimedia Deutschland (did at least one workshop back in 2013 with
 journalists from ZDF Berlin)
 *The Malayalam community did a workshop for journalists as part of the
 events leading up to their community's 2013 conference

 Not sure if everyone I've listed is working on this currently, but these
 groups may have some experience to share. And there must be others I
 haven't listed here! Seems like a good opportunity to share some learning
 patterns on this topic, since I haven't found much there about working with
 journalists! :)  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns

 Cheers and best of luck with your project! We look forward to the results.

 Winifred



 On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Andrea Zanni zanni.andre...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Dear all,
  I was wondering if anyone, in the Wikimedia movement,
  has done editathons and wiki-events with *journalists*.
  In April, Wikimedia Italia will host a workshop at the International
  Journalism Festival, and we'd welcome tips and suggestions.
 
  Cheers
 
  Aubrey
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe




 --
 Winifred Olliff
 Program Officer
 Wikimedia Foundation
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Our final email

[Balázs Viczián]

I think Fae, that this was plain rude either.

Where can I read more about this case?

Vince

2014-12-23 8:56 GMT+00:00 Fæ fae...@gmail.com:

 On 23 December 2014 at 08:43, Golf Today li...@golf.indiatodaylive.com
 wrote:
  Attention : LILA TETRIKOV
 trolling crap removed

 Thread hijacking is plain rude. As for Joe Jobbing Wikimedians, it is
 a despicable and malicious form of cyberbullying.

 Can't someone come up with a way of slapping these prawns down for good?

 Fae
 --
 fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Our final email

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

Ok and thanks for the links!

these cabal cases are pretty interesting usually.

Balazs

2014-12-29 11:41 GMT+00:00 Fæ fae...@gmail.com:

 Hi Vince,

 You can read more at

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/India_Against_Corruption_sock-meatfarm
 - note the sentience:
 Tactic as of 2014 has been to launch various claims of copyright
 violation, impersonation, defamation, sexual harassment, paid editing,
 racism, pornography, forgery, and violations of terms of use

 I recommend taking care to avoid being misled by accounts pretending
 to be established Wikimedians.

 Fae


 On 29 December 2014 at 11:28, Balázs Viczián
 balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu wrote:
  I think Fae, that this was plain rude either.
 
  Where can I read more about this case?
 
  Vince
 
  2014-12-23 8:56 GMT+00:00 Fæ fae...@gmail.com:
 
  On 23 December 2014 at 08:43, Golf Today li...@golf.indiatodaylive.com
 
  wrote:
   Attention : LILA TETRIKOV
  trolling crap removed
 
  Thread hijacking is plain rude. As for Joe Jobbing Wikimedians, it is
  a despicable and malicious form of cyberbullying.
 
  Can't someone come up with a way of slapping these prawns down for good?
 
  Fae
  --
  fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe



 --
 fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Magyarország Board Elections

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi all,

WMHU had its general assembly last Saturday where a new board was elected
for the 2014 December - 2016 December period.

Gervai, Péter - president (reelected)
Balogh, Mónika - financial vice president (reelected)
Bihary, Gábor - executive vice president
Gyenes, Orsolya - board member
Mészöly, Tamás - board member

Please join me in congratulating and wishing them a successful term.

Cheers,
Balazs
(the outgoing executive VP of WMHU)
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] FDC funds allocation recommendation is up

[Balázs Viczián]

In regards to the original problem brought up by Gerard, FDC is more
or less on its maximum I think.

Its members never did such (or similar) job(s) before FDC (the closest
would be credit checks, but that is like and IEG grant review - it is
pretty far from such a comprehensive grant - technically a
full business plan - review)

Despite the little to zero initial experience of its members,
all-volunteer setup and the ever changing circumstances (global goals,
focus points, etc.) and how in general awful it sounds if you say it
out lout that an all-amateur (in the good sense) and inexperienced
group of people are handling
out USD 6 million every year in their free time and for free, it works
pretty well.

Not perfect but you can not demand or expect perfection from such a setup.

That is why there is a whole process now to correct the mistakes that
arise from this non-professional system, including a dedicated
ombudsperson for the case(s).

I think this is fair enough, the quality of the reviews are visibly
improving from year to year and for the first time there is a real
possibility to fix the mistakes and errors made, like the
incoherentness of reviews.

Things from this point could be better only through radical changes to
the system imo.

Balazs

2014-11-25 9:41 GMT, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com:
 In my opinion the work of the FDC cannot be limited to compare three years,
 to evaluate three budgets and to evaluate three impacts.

 I would say that it's *out of context*.

 I have had this feeling when I have read that the FDC consider that Amical
 is the best example to follow.

 How to follow? Amical operates in a different context than other
 chapters. The question that a good example can be *cloned* is surrealistic.

 Ok, nothing to say but:
 a) Amical operates in small community where the language is a strong glue
 within the community
 b) Amical has a strong inter-relation Wikimedia projects = organization
 c) Amical has no big internal conflicts generated by external or internal
 questions (may be the opposite)
 d) the territory where Amical operates is relatively small

 A good example to compare Amical is with Wikimedia Israel.

 I would not speak in the specific case of WM DE but I suggest to look in
 the history of the German projects and in the German chapter and to check
 how many external decisions have had an impact in the German community to
 generate a bias. I don't think that these decisions have been a good
 solution to improve the community participation to the projects.

 What I see is that the numbers of editors is decreasing a lot in the
 biggest projects.

 It may be caused by a wrong strategy where is privileged the diversity and
 the Global South but without paying attention that the historical
 communities and to the usual editors. May be I am wrong but there are
 more online projects becoming attractive for the potential editors and
 the change of the target is not producing a real impact.

 So it's not a question of comparison of three budget.

 If the problem is critical the solution to limit the decreasing is not
 beneficial.

 regards


 Il 24/Nov/2014 19:14 Sydney Poore sydney.po...@gmail.com ha scritto:

 Hi Patrik,


 During this round of the FDC evaluating the requests, the majority of the
 organizations that we were looking at had submitted requests to the FDC
 for
 the past 3 years. While we have seen improvement around strategic
 planning,
 budget planning and evaluation, there is still a great amount of room for
 improvement from everyone in the wikimedia movement (including the WMF.)

 If you read the recommendations, FDC is primarily asking the largest
 organizations to re-evaluate their current capacity to deliver impact to
 the movement in line with the funds that they are using. In many instances
 it involves looking at the organizations overall capacity to develop and
 execute a strategic plan. Because the FDC is making recommendations about
 unrestricted funds, rather than focusing on a specific project or program,
 often the reductions in funds is linked to concerns about an organizations
 capacity to grow (eg., hire and manage more staff, do more complicated
 projects.)


 Warm regards,

 Sydney Poore
 User:FloNight
 Member FDC



 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] FDC funds allocation recommendation is up

[Balázs Viczián]

Dariusz, as you said: it is not on your public FDC profile.

How should I know all of this about you if it is completely missing from there?

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Members/Dariusz_Jemielniak

Vince

2014-11-25 15:13 GMT, Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl:
 we're clearly looking at different pages. My description indicates 8 years
 of sitting on a funds dissemination committee of Nida Foundation. It is
 true that I have not listed my experience on Kopernik Science Center Board,
 or Interkl@sa, even though I did at the point of candidacy to the FDC.

 If exactly such experience (sitting on the committee distributing funds)
 does not count, I am not certain what can satisfy your requirements.

 Additionally, I believe that your argument is flawed. True, we do need
 people with such experience on the FDC, but just as equally we need people
 with experience from chapter boards, for instance.

 best,

 dariusz pundit

 On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Dariusz, I do not feel it is ungrounded at all.

 If you read carefully, all FDC members (including you) are talking about
 writing grants (if any), none has written in their profile that they had
 any specific experience in _reviewing_ them.

 To keep it simple, I bet you as a professor know the difference between
 writing tests and reviewing tests written by others :)

 Vince

 2014-11-25 13:25 GMT+00:00 Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl:

 yes, that I understood, I just believe that your statement that that
 members of the FDC initially had zero or minimal experience needed for
 bodies of this sort is basically ungrounded :)

 best,

 dj

 On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Balázs Viczián
 balazs.vicz...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 Hi,

 initial was meant to refer to the times when the FDC (and its
 preceding processes) were set up. Sorry if I was misunderstandable.

 Vince

 2014-11-25 13:00 GMT+00:00 Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl:

 I mean 50 thousand, which positions the organization I ran at the
 level
 of
 really small chapters in our movement.

 I do not understand your point about stakeholders at all. Are you
 assuming
 that the FDC is acting as a WMF proxy?  We are an independent,
 community-ran body advising to the Board (which, again IS NOT the
 Foundation).

 Additionally, we as the FDC, do not require external funding, so your
 further argument is even more confusing. We're only advising to get it
 whenever possible, but absolutely accept (a) explanations why it isn't
 just
 as well as (b) failed attempts.

 best,

 dj pundit

 On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  ~50k means 50.000 Euros or 500.000 Euros?
 
  The value is important because cutting 20% or 30% in biggest budget
 means
  to justify that to the stakeholders.
 
  The model that FDC is bringing to the chapters is more complex than
  previously because the chapters have to find external funds.
 
  This means that the group of stakeholders has to be enlarged (a
  lot).
 
  I would give you the definition of stakeholders from ITIL: those
  individuals or groups that have an interest in an organization,
 service or
  project and are potentially interested or engaged in the activities,
  resources, targets or deliverables.
 
  WMF is one stakeholders.
 
  The submitters of a project are stakeholders, the members of the
  associations are stakeholders, the editor of Wikimedia projects are
  stakeholders and so on.
 
  In this case the FDC cannot evaluate the strategy of a chapter
 because WMF
  is *one of the stakeholders*.
 
  And WMF cannot say that a chapter has not a strategy because a
 decision
  like this generates as consequence a complete review of the strategy
 in
  order to attract stakeholders.
 
  Basically if WMF is asking to find external funds to reduce the
  risk,
 the
  consequence is that WMF is also declaring to would be a stakeholder
 with
  less importance and less impact in the decision of the strategy of
  the
  chapter.
 
  This is not my personal opinion, it's an evident consequence of
 biggest
  budget.
 
  regards
 
  On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
 dar...@alk.edu.pl
  wrote:
 
   Hi Balazs,
  
   I'm quite puzzled and wondering what are you basing your opinion
   of
 the
  FDC
   members' zero initial experience. I can speak only for myself, but
 I was
  an
   ED of an NGO for 6 years (and successfully applied for grants and
 ran a
   ~50k annual budget), and I've been on the funds dissemination
   board
 for
  
   best,
  
   dariusz pundit
  
  
   On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Balázs Viczián 
   balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu wrote:
  
In regards to the original problem brought up by Gerard, FDC is
 more
or less on its maximum I think.
   
Its members never did such (or similar) job(s) before FDC (the
 closest
would be credit checks, but that is like and IEG grant review

Re: [Wikimedia-l] FDC funds allocation recommendation is up

[Balázs Viczián]

Supporting individual English teachers in rural Poland and reviewing
hundred thousand to million dollar grants from all around the World
are barely comparable to each other if they can be at all, but
definitely can be counted as relevant experience. Anyways I meant to
give an overall positive critic,

I am sorry that you focused on the negative parts only and took it
personal, it was never my intention.

Vince

2014-11-25 18:38 GMT+01:00, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org:
 I don't think it is very helpful to the discussions that have to be had to
 turn this into a conversation about personal qualifications... Only rarely
 I have seen such a discussion to bear fruit.

 The people on the Committee is only a small factor in the whole puzzle -
 the instructions they get, the process and the number of applications has
 at least a similar impact. Let us first discuss what (if anything) should
 be different in the process, in the outcomes, before we even start
 discussing the people.

 Thanks!

 Lodewijk

 On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl
 wrote:

 Balazs,

 if you read the link you've just provided, you'd probably notice e.g. the
 following sentence: He also has served on the Funds Dissemination
 Committee of the English Teaching program (aimed at improving language
 skills of English teachers in rural areas of Poland) coordinated by
 Fundacja Nida from the funds of Polish-American Freedom Foundation over
 the
 last 8+ years.

 On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Balázs Viczián 
 balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
  wrote:

  Dariusz, as you said: it is not on your public FDC profile.
 
  How should I know all of this about you if it is completely missing
  from
  there?
 
 
 
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Members/Dariusz_Jemielniak
 
  Vince
 
  2014-11-25 15:13 GMT, Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl:
   we're clearly looking at different pages. My description indicates 8
  years
   of sitting on a funds dissemination committee of Nida Foundation. It
   is
   true that I have not listed my experience on Kopernik Science Center
  Board,
   or Interkl@sa, even though I did at the point of candidacy to the
   FDC.
  
   If exactly such experience (sitting on the committee distributing
 funds)
   does not count, I am not certain what can satisfy your requirements.
  
   Additionally, I believe that your argument is flawed. True, we do
   need
   people with such experience on the FDC, but just as equally we need
  people
   with experience from chapter boards, for instance.
  
   best,
  
   dariusz pundit
  
   On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Balázs Viczián 
  balazs.vicz...@gmail.com
   wrote:
  
   Dariusz, I do not feel it is ungrounded at all.
  
   If you read carefully, all FDC members (including you) are talking
 about
   writing grants (if any), none has written in their profile that they
 had
   any specific experience in _reviewing_ them.
  
   To keep it simple, I bet you as a professor know the difference
 between
   writing tests and reviewing tests written by others :)
  
   Vince
  
   2014-11-25 13:25 GMT+00:00 Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl:
  
   yes, that I understood, I just believe that your statement that
   that
   members of the FDC initially had zero or minimal experience needed
 for
   bodies of this sort is basically ungrounded :)
  
   best,
  
   dj
  
   On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Balázs Viczián
   balazs.vicz...@gmail.com
wrote:
  
   Hi,
  
   initial was meant to refer to the times when the FDC (and its
   preceding processes) were set up. Sorry if I was
   misunderstandable.
  
   Vince
  
   2014-11-25 13:00 GMT+00:00 Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl:
  
   I mean 50 thousand, which positions the organization I ran at the
   level
   of
   really small chapters in our movement.
  
   I do not understand your point about stakeholders at all. Are you
   assuming
   that the FDC is acting as a WMF proxy?  We are an independent,
   community-ran body advising to the Board (which, again IS NOT the
   Foundation).
  
   Additionally, we as the FDC, do not require external funding, so
 your
   further argument is even more confusing. We're only advising to
   get
  it
   whenever possible, but absolutely accept (a) explanations why it
  isn't
   just
   as well as (b) failed attempts.
  
   best,
  
   dj pundit
  
   On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Ilario Valdelli 
 valde...@gmail.com
  
   wrote:
  
~50k means 50.000 Euros or 500.000 Euros?
   
The value is important because cutting 20% or 30% in biggest
 budget
   means
to justify that to the stakeholders.
   
The model that FDC is bringing to the chapters is more complex
 than
previously because the chapters have to find external funds.
   
This means that the group of stakeholders has to be enlarged (a
lot).
   
I would give you the definition of stakeholders from ITIL:
those
individuals

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics

[Balázs Viczián]

Hmm...I would love to *outsource *financial reporting to WMF together with
a couple of other tasks as well (program evaluation for example).

Imo the best would be to contact our (that is WM Hungary) accountant
directly so they can get the data organized as wanted, on time, with
explanations requested, etc.

In long terms I would love to see a global contract with KPMG (as WMF is
using them, or another of the big four) where KPMG (or an alternative firm
if not present there) would take this task over from local chapters.

That would ensure that the data is collected the exact same way (with same
definitions and methodology used) in every single country, without delays
or errors in reporting and on the best dates for WMF.

Not to mention that it would decrease the workload of the chapters what I
think barely if ever happened yet.

Balazs
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi Richard,

I think I was a bit misunderstandable here.

I'm not talking about the local reports but about the translations of
them for WMF. I would be more than happy if WMF would do it themselves.
This is what these fellows are doing as of my understanding in the next 6
months.

The bright future for me would be the automated version of this: WMF pays
for an accounting firm preferably a big four company (Deloitte, KPMG,
Ernst  Young or PriceWaterhouseCoopers) to do the accounting for all the
chapters.

Why?

Because they are present in almost every country in the world.

For small/new chapters and other current and future formations in need to
present an audited statement for the WMF it would be definitely a benefit
to have someone do the job. If they would do the local regular accounting
imo it would be even better.

So I have two levels here. One normal: the local and one translated for
WMF. These big firms are capable of doing both. Maybe if we look into that
deeply it can turn out that on a global level we might end up saving on the
accounting costs with such a contract. But that is just my idea, no data to
support it. The fellows will be definitely able to answer such a question
though in six months time.

Balazs

2014-11-21 12:46 GMT+00:00 Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk
:

 Hi Balazs,

 This, while at first glance a credible idea, wouldn't work for a number of
 reasons:

- it misunderstands how major accounting firms work. Even if one
accounting group carried out the work, the people doing the work would
 be
the local accounting firms (eg KPMG Hungary, KPMG UK). These firms would
have different methodologies and practices.
- Some chapters, including WMUK, have a legal responsibility to be
independent. Having someone else report our finances would jeopardise
 that
independence.
- Bigger chapters - and some smaller ones - already have established
reporting procedures and practices, which in some cases are better than
 the
WMF's systems. It would be extremely difficult to update our systems
 from
our own, to WMF-led ones.
- There would still be delays and errors in reporting - and the dates
would still change because each country has different tax years (etc).
- Every organisation measures things differently - we all have different
cost centres, nominal codes, departments etc - having the WMF come in
 and
change them would be very difficult and would run the risk of some
organisations losing accuracy in their reporting (or would run the risk
 of
having a massively complex system to account for everything). At its
simplest level, definitions of things like governance or office
 costs
vary from country to country. For example, in WMUK, we count general
postage of letters as office costs, but items that fall under the Royal
Mail definition of parcels instead come out of the budget for a
 project. If
you're to have the same reporting for every country, you need to all be
using the same definition of parcel!
- Finally, every organisation's goals are different - and indeed our
funding streams are different. WMUK is mostly funded from outside the
movement, and as a result we are able to use our resources to fund
non-Wikimedia projects - for example, OpenStreetMap, or OpenCorporates,
 if
we wanted to. We can even fund political lobbying to a fair degree,
 which
is something the WMF can't do as easily. This means that the WMF has no
interest in counting that expenditure, because lobbying for open
 knowledge
is not a WMF goal in the same way that it's a WMUK goal. It would be
 funded
without using WMF funds, and would be spent on non-WMF goals.

 Very complicated, and I'm sorry to write such a long email, but
 standardising financial systems across continents is a very difficult thing
 to do!

 All the best,

 Richard Symonds
 Wikimedia UK
 0207 065 0992

 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
 Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
 Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
 United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
 movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
 operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

 *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
 over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

 On 21 November 2014 11:38, Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
 wrote:

  Hmm...I would love to *outsource *financial reporting to WMF together
 with
  a couple of other tasks as well (program evaluation for example).
 
  Imo the best would be to contact our (that is WM Hungary) accountant
  directly so they can get the data organized as wanted, on time, with
  explanations requested, etc.
 
  In long terms I would love to see a global contract with KPMG (as WMF

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics

[Balázs Viczián]

Rupert,

I doubt volunteer accounting is fun; most people actually hate it. Further
mor, most people actually can not do it as it should at all. No wonder this
is a separate profession.

People can discuss your statement that wikipedia is not multinational on
200+ language version wikipedias :)

It is global and it is multinational.

About half of the WMF staff was born and raised (and lived most of their
lives) outside the USA, including the past and the present EDs. Or check
the finance fellows for example :)

Accounting is the core of all activities; try not doing your personal tax
report and you'll see.

Wherever a single penny is changing hands, it has to be reported and
properly accounted. It is not only required by the law everywhere but
required for the sake of transparency and _accountability_

Balázs
2014.11.21. 19:45, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com ezt írta:

 While this might sound attracting at a first glance the effect might be
 exactly the opposite what is desired.

 First, The wikimedia movement is not multinational like coca Cola which
 just buys what it needs. Wikimedia depends on volunteers. I would never
 donate money if it is not spent on the people sweating for Wikipedia. So
 behaving like a cold money hungry multinational driven by quarterly reports
 poses a reputational risk.

 Second, The goal is to target as much money as possible to the mission.
 Invent some non-core effort and then shifting it to a paid resource is
 killing such a goal. The effort should ideally disappear, not being
 outsourced.

 And, at the end of the day established (reporting ) standards should be
 easy to follow for everybody, without the need of a translator . Just
 like we know well from laws and other standards.

 Rupert
 Hmm...I would love to *outsource *financial reporting to WMF together with
 a couple of other tasks as well (program evaluation for example).

 Imo the best would be to contact our (that is WM Hungary) accountant
 directly so they can get the data organized as wanted, on time, with
 explanations requested, etc.

 In long terms I would love to see a global contract with KPMG (as WMF is
 using them, or another of the big four) where KPMG (or an alternative firm
 if not present there) would take this task over from local chapters.

 That would ensure that the data is collected the exact same way (with same
 definitions and methodology used) in every single country, without delays
 or errors in reporting and on the best dates for WMF.

 Not to mention that it would decrease the workload of the chapters what I
 think barely if ever happened yet.

 Balazs
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi all,

what Rubin says I think is that when the decision was made, WMF did not
notify WM RU.

The complete lack of communication.

NOT what was discussed above; that was a complete misunderstanding of his
words.

What Rubin says in my reading is that once WMF made the decision, they
should have

1) analyze what questions and reaction will it generate and identify in
which community(-ies)
2) prepare taylor-made answers for the expected and a reply strategy with
clear guidelines for the unexpected questions (even better: a press-release)
3) notify the affected (WMRU) about the decision, prepare them for the
situation, give them the questions and teach them the answers and the reply
strategy (and probably do the same with other closely knit communities,
like WM UKR) and/or give them the press release
4) only then execute the decision and close the Russian donation channels.

this is imo a pretty clear and reasonable request. Not to say very common
act at large international companies when they for example close a factory
somewhere.

Balázs
2014.11.14. 22:01, rubin.happy rubin.ha...@gmail.com ezt írta:

 That's not the first, and even not the 10th attempt of our authorities to
 create own Wikipedia, own YouTube and so on.

 They will talk about it, they could even spend some budget but it's not
 likely to result in something that will be sustainable and popular.

 PS: I really believed that we will see some sufficient comment from WMF
 about particular reasons, local laws changed that caused such block of
 fundraising, etc. but my trust in WMF is leaving me from day to day. I am
 really disappointed that WMF puts some own interests as a priority and
 ignores questions from the local community of not the smallest project -
 Russian Wikipedia.

 Imagine that such user as me who is the oldest 'crat of ru.wiki, has long
 history of contribution to local and global Wikimedia activities, already
 doesn't believe that it was a justified and reasonable decision and not
 political action by WMF. And now imagine what new or inexperienced readers
 and editors in Russia should think when they hear about such an unfriendly
 action from company based in the USA, the country we have not perfect
 relations with at the moment

 I am tired of knocking to the closed door, so, let it be as it is, I don't
 care about it anymore: we have local activities, we have sensible editors
 (not only in ru.wiki but also in other projects as comments to this mailing
 list have shown), so, we should work for the overall idea despite some
 existing inefficiencies like WMF.
 14 нояб. 2014 г. 23:31 пользователь Federico Leva (Nemo) 
 nemow...@gmail.com написал:

  Dorożyński Janusz, 14/11/2014 14:59:
 
  Really, we want help and we can help, especially locals, i.e. Russian
  folks.
 
 
  Too late? It seems the Russian government immediately seized the
  opportunity of a weaker position of Wikipedia in the public opinion. (You
  probably already saw, but anyway.)
 
 http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/11/14/us-russia-wikipedia-alternative-
  idINKCN0IY1YT20141114
 
  They have a habit of sanctions and counter-sanctions by now...
 
  Nemo
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
  wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference[1] 2015

[Balázs Viczián]

imo (but maybe I'm sitting on the wrong direction on this horse) but once
we have a program it can be installed to any suitable location.

I think it would be great moving that way. WMF and a few chapters have
dedicated people for event organizing, why not use them. Bidding would be
then for _hosting only_, what I am sure would generate dozens of
applications per event.

Not to mention how much easier would it be to keep up the consistency and
the continuity (contentwise) of the events.

Balazs
2014.10.16. 4:24, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org ezt írta:

 Hello, everyone.

 Weeks go by, and the previous conversation was throughly derailed, so out
 of a profound interest in ensuring a high-value event, I am bringing this
 up again: we[3] *need to make progress* with planning the

 working-meeting-featuring-Wikimedia-affiliates-and-WMF-and-the-WMF-Board-and-AffCom[4],
 whatever we may end up calling it[1].

 In the interest of moving on to focus on more substantive issues, and in
 light of there being only a single bid submitted so far[5], may I
 boldly *suggest
 that it be accepted* and that we devote the rest of the time until the
 spring to ensuring the lessons[6] of the previous years be heeded in
 *significant
 preparatory work* by the program team and the affiliates?

Asaf

 [1] or whatever we may choose to rename it.  The previous thread was
 successfully killed by the digression into the event's name.  Let's try to
 keep this one on track, and discuss the name ELSEWHERE[2], shall we?
 [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Conference_2015
 [3] yes, not all the hundreds of people on this mailing list.  But this is
 still the channel that reaches the greatest number of Wikimedia affiliates.
 [4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2015
 [5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2015/Bids
 [6]
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
 --
 Asaf Bartov
 Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org

 Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
 sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
 https://donate.wikimedia.org
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Chapters] Recognition of Wikimedia Belgium as a Wikimedia chapter by the WMF Board

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from Wikimedia Hungary!

Balázs
2014.09.02. 19:46, Carlos M. Colina ma...@wikimedia.org.ve ezt írta:

  Dear all,

 It is an honour for me to announce that during Wikimania, the WMF resolved
 [1] to recognise Wikimedia Belgium as a Wikimedia chapter. The resolution
 was made public a few days ago.

 The first discussions towards the establishment of a Belgian chapter
 started many years ago, with the local community doing projects related to
 freedom of knowledge since then, like organisation of WLM Belgium 
 Luxembourg in 2011, 2012 and 2013. Along with these and other activities,
 the idea of a chapter grew and evolved to the moment when, the decision was
 taken to start officially the chapter creation process.

 This process took longer than usual, due to many reasons, among those the
 change in the chapter approval process by the WMF Board last year.
 Nevertheless, after months of intensive discussion and interaction between
 all parties involved, a recommendation from the AffCom was sent to the WMF
 regarding Wikimedia Belgium. And here we are :-)

 Please welcome the newest member of the family of Wikimedia affiliates!

 Regards,
 Carlos


 1:
 https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Recognition_of_Wikimedia_Belgium

 --
 *Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua
 junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain.
 Carlos M. Colina
 Vicepresidente, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
 www.wikimedia.org.ve http://wikimedia.org.ve
 Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee
 Phone: +972-52-4869915
 Twitter: @maor_x

 ___
 Chapters mailing list
 chapt...@wikimedia.ch
 https://intern.wikimedia.ch/lists/listinfo/chapters

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New movement org?

[Balázs Viczián]

how did you find them? (and that fast)

Balazs
2014.08.23. 22:45, Richard Farmbrough rich...@farmbrough.co.uk ezt írta:

 Note that while it *is* a trademark issue, it isn't *just* a trademark
 issue.


 On 21 August 2014 18:44, Gregory Varnum gregory.var...@gmail.com wrote:

  Thank you Richard for bringing this to everyone's attention.
 
  So folks know, WMF Legal and the Affiliations Committee are investigating
  and will be reaching out to the group soon.
 
  Thanks!
  -greg aka varnent
  Wikimedia Affiliations Committee Vice Chair
 
 
  On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Richard Symonds 
  richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
 
   Thanks all!
  
   I have passed this over to WMF legal to deal with as it's a trademark
   issue.
  
   Richard Symonds
   Wikimedia UK
   0207 065 0992
  
   Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
 and
   Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
 Registered
   Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
  4LT.
   United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
   movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation
 (who
   operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
  
   *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal
 control
   over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
  
  
   On 21 August 2014 17:31, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:
  
On 21 August 2014 12:21, James Forrester jdforres...@gmail.com
  wrote:
   
 On 21 August 2014 09:13, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hi Richard, any links to where you found this information?
 


 ​The ever-excellent OpenCorporates has its entry:

 https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_mi/71656Y

 … leading to the official US state of Michigan's entry:

 http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/dt_corp.asp?id_nbr=71656Y

 No information about the officers, sadly, just a filing office.


Incorporation documents here:
   
   
  
 
 http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/image.asp?FILE_TYPE=ELFFILE_NAME=D201408\2014224\E0091608.TIF
   
President:  Scott Perry
Vice President:  Ann Perry
Secretary:  Danielle Lewis
   
Someone else can figure out how to copy/paste.
   
Risker/Anne
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
   
   ___
   Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
   https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
   Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
   Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
   mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
  
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
 



 --
 Landline (UK) 01780 757 250
 Mobile (UK) 0798 1995 792
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Options for the German Wikipedia

[Balázs Viczián]

It seems that poor (and insufficient) communication is a pretty widespread
problem at WMF.

Balazs


2014-08-12 13:25 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com:

  Does either of you or anyone else see a valid reason to deny this
  seemingly reasonable and considered request? It's quite obvious that
 hacks
  to achieve the same ends are far from ideal. Why not simply disable
  MediaViewer by default on the German Wikipedia, as requested?
 

 In my view, the technical configuration and user experience of WMF wikis
 are areas where community discussion is advisory rather than decisive.
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia User Group China

[Balázs Viczián]

Congratulations from 匈牙利 ! (hope it will read Hungary :) )

Balazs


2014-07-31 10:56 GMT+01:00 Katie Chan katie.c...@wikimedia.org.uk:

 Congratulations and 歡迎。


 On 30 July 2014 22:22, Cristian Consonni kikkocrist...@gmail.com wrote:

  2014-07-30 19:16 GMT+02:00 Tonmoy Khan tonmoy...@gmail.com:
   That's a great news! Congratulations to WM User Group China.
 
  Wow! Great news!
 
  Cristian
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
 



 --
 Katie Chan
 Volunteer Support Organiser
 Wikimedia UK
 +44 (0) 20 7065 0990
 +44 (0) 7885 980 534

 PGP Key-ID: 0x483767A3

 Wikimedia UK is a Charitable Company registered in England and Wales.
 Registered Company No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
 Registered Office: 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street,
 London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom.
 Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
 Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
 Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

 Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
 over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Egypt Wikimedians User Group

[Balázs Viczián]

Let me join the line: Congrats, keep up the good work :)

Balazs from WMHU

2014-07-30 23:35 GMT+01:00 Samir Ibrahim s4langu...@yahoo.com:

 Thanks for your delicate words everyone and thanks a million to Carlos for
 his support.

 I hope we can serve and support the Wiki community and the wiki movement
 everywhere, especially in Egypt.

 Samir,
 Member and co-founder of Egypt Wikimedians user group.

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Subject for Wikimedia Hackathon(s) 2014-2015: CoSyne

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

can someone sum up in a few sentences the discussion held on hangout
earlier this week?

Balazs
2014.07.17. 13:57, Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@gmail.com ezt írta:

 Hi,

 thanks for the offer :)

 It would be highly useful.

 Cheers,
 Balazs

 2014-07-14 19:38 GMT+01:00, Frans Grijzenhout fr...@wikimedia.nl:
  Hi Balázs, WMNL hosted the international hackaton in 2013. Documentation
 is
  archived and thus still available and we are more than willing to help
 you
  in preparing the international hackaton in 2015.
  Regards, Frans
 
 
 
  *Frans Grijzenhout*, voorzitter / chair
  fr...@wikimedia.nl
  +31 6 5333 9499
  http://www.wikimedia.nl/
 
  *Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland*
  *Postadres*: *Bezoekadres:*
  Postbus 167   Mariaplaats 3
  3500 AD  Utrecht3511 LH Utrecht
 
  ABNAMRO NL33 ABNA 0497164833 - Kamer van Koophandel 17189036
 
 
 
 
  2014-07-14 16:56 GMT+02:00 Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu:
 
  Hi,
 
  WMHU would be interested in *hosting *a Hackathon in Hungary (anywhere)
  but
  we would need a couple of international volunteers to help filling the
  core
  of event (finding topics and speakers or building up the content in
  general). In exchange, the rest (from side events to the smallest
 details)
  can be left with us :)
 
  Balazs
 
 
  2014-07-14 14:53 GMT+02:00 Frans Grijzenhout fr...@wikimedia.nl:
 
   Hi Romaine, this is to remind you that the CoSyne project was a
 research
   project, sponsored by the EU and conducted by different partners. The
   research has been concluded and the results have been reported early
   2013..The technical infrastructure has sinds then been dismantled, so
 it
   will not be that easy to restart CoSyne. Regards, Frans
  
  
   *Frans Grijzenhout*, voorzitter / chair
   fr...@wikimedia.nl
   +31 6 5333 9499
   http://www.wikimedia.nl/
  
   *Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland*
   *Postadres*: *Bezoekadres:*
   Postbus 167   Mariaplaats 3
   3500 AD  Utrecht3511 LH Utrecht
  
   ABNAMRO NL33 ABNA 0497164833 - Kamer van Koophandel 17189036
  
  
  
  
   2014-07-09 23:44 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com:
  
I doubt if these tools are similar. But I do think they can benefit
  from
each other.
   
Romaine
   
   
2014-07-09 16:03 GMT+02:00 Antoine Musso hashar+...@free.fr:
   
 Le 09/07/2014 14:33, Romaine Wiki a écrit :
  As a subject of one/more hackathons I would like to recommend
  CoSyne
[1].
  CoSyne is translation and multilingual synchronisation tool. The
project
  was set up by Wikimedia Netherlands together with several
   universities
 and
  other partners, including the EU. The tool makes it possible to
translate
  much more easier from one Wikipedia (etc) to another with much
  better
  quality translations than existing translating tools. It does
 not
matter
 if
  an article is already written, it is possible with this tool to
   expand
  existing articles and to update articles with a new section when
  on
   one
  Wikipedia this was added. It makes it possible to exchange
   information
in
  more languages and helps users to keep the articles up-to-date.
 
  I have tested the Bèta version of this tool and these tests were
  very
  successful.
 
  [1] https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/CoSyne
 
  Romaine

 Hello,

 Seems it is very similiar to the content translation Wikimedia
 i18n
   team
 is working on:

 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation

 Demo video:


   
  
 
 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:CX_Section_Alignment_Preview_and_Basic_Editing.webm


 --
 Antoine hashar Musso


 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe:
  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
 ?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
 ?subject=unsubscribe
   
   ___
   Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
   https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
   Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
   Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 ,
   mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Interest in a community strategic planning meeting?

[Balázs Viczián]

Bear in mind WikiPedia =/= WikiMedia.

Imo all of the below and about 70-80% of the topics previously brough up in
this thread can be solved/actioned/discussed/amended/etc by the community
solely through Village Pump (or other relevant forums) without a single
person involved (ever) from WMF or any of the chapters.

Balazs

1) exposing missing, confusing, or outdated local policies by using policy

 comparisons cross-wiki
 2) handling multi-language issues such as highlighting article-for-deletion
 discussions for each language in which the article exists, not just the
 local one
 3) defining an embedded system factor by automatic checking of similarity
 of metadata of articles across languages and projects
 4) how can we emphasize techniques that attract contributions that are 100%
 non-controversial and fun at the same time?
 5) how can we organize local x-language meet-up days across the globe using
 our international network of chapters?
 6) how can we set up a new Wikicouch project whereby Wikipedians can
 couch surf (I mean more group editting rather than sleeping) with other
 Wikipedians' across the globe


 On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Anders Wennersten 
 m...@anderswennersten.se wrote:

  I am interested in community strategy but have very different topics in
  mind
  *how should we handle the 50-100 projects that today in practice are
 dead.
  They are open for anyone (besides vandals that already infest these) to
  hi-jack
  *how should we handle the 5-10 projects that are already hi-jacket and
  spreading info contradictory to our values? (think belarous wikipedia)
  *Could we find means to help struggling communitiies, there are several
  having a hard time neutrilizing POV, internal fight and even having
 problem
  neutralising vandal attacks
  *how could we spread best practice to make certain our project do not
  unnecessary diverge
  *and the complex of bot generation over several projects - wikidata where
  efforts for the moment are not harmonized as they ought to
  etc
 
  Anders
 
  Pine W skrev 2014-07-14 09:25:
 
   Hi community members,
 
  I'm wondering how many people might be interested in having an IRC
 meeting
  regarding the community's relationship to WMF and potentially developing
  our own strategic plan that would be independent of WMF. In the past few
  days I've heard some defense of WMF but mainly criticism and pessimism,
  especially people recalling past hurts and feeling powerless to
 negotiate
  with WMF. Perhaps it's time that we in the community create our own
  strategic plan and develop strategic options.
 
  Please note that this would be a long-term planning meeting and we are
 not
  likely to make major decisions, but we would start brainstorming and
  laying
  some foundations.
 
  Topics of possible discussion regarding our relationship with WMF:
 
  1. Strategic options, such as finding alternative organizations to WMF
 for
  hosting Wikimedia sites or creating a new hosting organization that is
  aligned with community values.
 
  2. Activism at the Board and grassroots levels.
 
  Topics of possible discussion regarding other strategic issues:
 
  3. Internal reform of the community, such as a fresh look at Wikimedia's
  founding principles and the Five Pillars, including civility.
 
  4. What we can do as a community about our active editor statistics.
 
  I expect this would be an interesting meeting if people are interested
 in
  participating, and I hope that we would brainstorm some ideas about how
 we
  want to move forward on all of these questions and others if we have
 time.
  If there are many participants, which would be *great*, then we may need
  additional meetings or to move the conversation on-wiki.
 
  If you're interested, you can respond on list but feel free to respond
 to
  me off-list also. I'm just trying to get a sense of the interest level
 of
  the community. I hear a lot of people being upset but what I feel we
 need
  to know is how many people would be interested in creating a long-term
  strategic plan and brainstorming strategic options.
 
  Thanks,
 
  Pine
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
  wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
 
 
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
  wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
 
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Subject for Wikimedia Hackathon(s) 2014-2015: CoSyne

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

WMHU would be interested in *hosting *a Hackathon in Hungary (anywhere) but
we would need a couple of international volunteers to help filling the core
of event (finding topics and speakers or building up the content in
general). In exchange, the rest (from side events to the smallest details)
can be left with us :)

Balazs


2014-07-14 14:53 GMT+02:00 Frans Grijzenhout fr...@wikimedia.nl:

 Hi Romaine, this is to remind you that the CoSyne project was a research
 project, sponsored by the EU and conducted by different partners. The
 research has been concluded and the results have been reported early
 2013..The technical infrastructure has sinds then been dismantled, so it
 will not be that easy to restart CoSyne. Regards, Frans


 *Frans Grijzenhout*, voorzitter / chair
 fr...@wikimedia.nl
 +31 6 5333 9499
 http://www.wikimedia.nl/

 *Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland*
 *Postadres*: *Bezoekadres:*
 Postbus 167   Mariaplaats 3
 3500 AD  Utrecht3511 LH Utrecht

 ABNAMRO NL33 ABNA 0497164833 - Kamer van Koophandel 17189036




 2014-07-09 23:44 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com:

  I doubt if these tools are similar. But I do think they can benefit from
  each other.
 
  Romaine
 
 
  2014-07-09 16:03 GMT+02:00 Antoine Musso hashar+...@free.fr:
 
   Le 09/07/2014 14:33, Romaine Wiki a écrit :
As a subject of one/more hackathons I would like to recommend CoSyne
  [1].
CoSyne is translation and multilingual synchronisation tool. The
  project
was set up by Wikimedia Netherlands together with several
 universities
   and
other partners, including the EU. The tool makes it possible to
  translate
much more easier from one Wikipedia (etc) to another with much better
quality translations than existing translating tools. It does not
  matter
   if
an article is already written, it is possible with this tool to
 expand
existing articles and to update articles with a new section when on
 one
Wikipedia this was added. It makes it possible to exchange
 information
  in
more languages and helps users to keep the articles up-to-date.
   
I have tested the Bèta version of this tool and these tests were very
successful.
   
[1] https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/CoSyne
   
Romaine
  
   Hello,
  
   Seems it is very similiar to the content translation Wikimedia i18n
 team
   is working on:
  
   http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation
  
   Demo video:
  
  
 
 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:CX_Section_Alignment_Preview_and_Basic_Editing.webm
  
  
   --
   Antoine hashar Musso
  
  
   ___
   Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
   https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
   Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
   Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
   mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
  
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
 
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quality on different language version

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

I guess mgwp is in Malagasy, not Hungarian :)

Cheers,
Balazs

being done.


 To ?provoke? I therefor list here my subjective impression after daily
 looking into the different version for 5-15 articles (new ones being
 created on sv.wp) (I list them in order how often I use them to calibrate
 the svwp articles).

 enwp- a magnitude better then any other. main weakeness are articles on
 marginal subjects that seems to be allowed to exist there, even if rather
 bad, and without templates (noone cares to patrol these?)

 eswp - a very  good version, which in the general discussion are not
 getting appropriate credit

 dewp - good when the articles exist, but many serious holes. Is the
 elitist way of running it, discouraging new editors in non obvious subjects
 (that after time passes gets very relevant)?
 frwp - also good, but somewhat scattered quality both in coverage and the
 different articles (even in same subject area)
 nlwp - very good coverage in the geographic subjects, decent quality on
 articles but limited world coverage in areas like biographies
 itwp - good articles but a bit italiancentered,

 nowp - small but decent articles. Their short focused articletext
 sometimes give more easyaccessed knowledge then an overly long one in other
 languages

 ptwp - the real disappointment. it is among the top ten in volume and
 accesses but clearly missing a lot, and even existing articles are uneven.
 I now use it even less then Ukrainian and Russian which I use very seldom
 as the different alphabet makes it hard to understand the article content

 (arabic, chinese and japanese I almost never use, too complicated)

 (I also use some smaller ones like sqwp and mgwp (hungarian), in these
 versions I have seen serious quality problems not to be found in any of the
 above ones, I am not sure they even have basic patrolling in place)

 Anders

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
 wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Input needed: Cooperation with zoos?

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

I haven't heared any issues with animal treatment in Hungarian zoos
(moreover the news I can recall reports continous improvement, like
expanding getting renovated/modernised, etc.)

I have no idea about the Serbian ones or the rest of the world.

We've just completed a QR-project with a zoo in Hungary; it might be
interesting for you.

Find the documentation (google translator needed as it is in
Hungarian-only) here:
http://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikip%C3%A9dia%3AMiskolc-m%C5%B1hely%2FGLAM-ZOO

in short: 80 articles were (mostly significantly) improved plus 34 new
created (114 articles in total) and the same number of QR codes put out and
our cooperation won't stop here :)

If you're concerned about animal treatment, think about something else
then, for example botanical gardens :)

Also a QRpedia project, also recently completed, but not finished (as the
cooperation will continue beyond mainenance) with the country's largest and
most prestigeous botanical garden and also Hungarian-only documentation:
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:N%C3%B6v%C3%A9nyek_m%C5%B1helye/V%C3%A1cr%C3%A1t%C3%B3t

Both were conducted by Wikipedia project groups thus both had a team of
editors behind them.

Cheers,
Balazs
2014.05.29. 23:45, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com ezt írta:

 There is ongoing Microgrants project in Wikimedia Serbia. In brief, we
 asked people to give us ideas, so we could talk about them. There are
 some interesting ideas and a number of not so relevant.

 We've got the offer to cooperate with one of the zoos from Serbia. At
 this moment of time, there is just their idea, nothing more precise.

 Before I proceed with the application (give suggestion to WMRS Board),
 I want your input. In reality, I don't know that any zoo is perfect in
 relation to the treatment of animals. In reality, it's likely
 impossible to check that, as well as animal rights are not that well
 protected in Serbia like the case is in, let's say, in the most of EU
 countries.

 So, I am interested in prevalent opinion. What's more important to us:
 free knowledge or not cooperating with an institution which likely has
 issues with the treatment of animals -- the question is just about the
 level.

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] FDC staff proposal assessments for 2013-2014 Round 2 are posted

[Balázs Viczián]

 You may also visit an overview of the financial information presented in
 these proposals, which includes information for all proposals in this
 round:

 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/Financial_overview


This page is empty.

Vince
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Organizational development for the Wikimedia movement

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi Salvador, I beleive we have at least three (or more) basises for
inspiration and future success already. All started from scratches and all
of them almost completely ignored all previous attempts.

My 2 cents here is to lower the level of such ignorance as much as possible
and build them in into this proposal; at least by pointing out what to
avoid based on their failures (not to mention to learn what could work as
showed popular) to speed up the process

Balazs
2014.04.28. 19:12, Salvador A salvador1...@gmail.com ezt írta:

 If a topic merge regularly only means that is an overwhelming worry that
 must be solved.

 I don't see Chris' proposal as reinventing the wheel but as a new attempt
 to give answers to an inconclude question. If past attempts have failed
 that doesn't mean that this one must do it either. Non sequitur. Even if it
 fails it can be the basis or inspiration for a future success. Remember one
 of our principles: Be bold!

 The members of AffComm are willing to support any initiative related to
 development of affiliates. Please Chris, feel comfortable asking us
 whatever you need. One of our members will follow up your efforts. Finally,
 we encourage the community to participate.


 2014-04-28 11:30 GMT-05:00 Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu:

  Hi all,
 
  pls correct me if I'm wrong, but WCA was aimed to do this (and already
  collected some materials) but ultimately failed due to the fact that from
  this basic idea it was quickly developed into an uber-chapter-like
 thing,
  not to mention the other problems.
 
  Anyways, I would highly recommend to stop reinventing the wheel every
 year
  as there are at least 2 or more similar (or like-minded) initiatives from
  the past years. Plus those that I'm not aware of.
 
  Rather collect and merge them into a single proposition as there are
 plenty
  to learn from their failure than starting again (what you just did btw)
 
  Imo.
 
  Cheers, Balazs
  2014.04.28. 8:30, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org ezt írta:
 
   Thanks Philippe for the pointer. Sounds like an interesting angle, she
  has
   been hired very recently it seems? I'm looking forward to the slightly
  more
   details description on the user page that is apparently forthcoming :)
  
   Lodewijk
  
  
   2014-04-28 4:39 GMT+02:00 Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.org:
  
Hi Chris,
   
Have you approached Anna Stillwell  -
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/User:AStillwell_(WMF) - about
  this?
 She seems a natural person to include in your discussions and
  thinking.
 Having worked with her some, I think she'll have some real insights
  for
you.  :-)
   
pb
   
   
*Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
Foundation, Inc.
 T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :
@Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki
   
   
On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Chris Keating
chriskeatingw...@gmail.comwrote:
   
 Hi all,

 I've started a page on Meta which I hope will act as a hub for
 documentation and ideas around the training and development needs
 of
 Wikimedia movement organisations:

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Organisational_development

 I'd ask anyone who's interested in this kind of thing to have a
 look
   and
 add examples and thoughts for the future.

 As many people will know from my contributions to this year's and
  last
 year's Wikimedia conference, or from the training workshop we held
 in
 London in early March, this is an issue where I feel the movement
  (or,
   at
 least, the part of the movement that is involved in movement
 organisations!) can and should do better.

 I was interested to read the Signpost coverage of the Wikimedia
 Conference(1) which evidently comes from a similar point of view!

 We are slightly hampered by the fact that there is no single body
 responsible for doing this kind of training and development work,
 so
  I
 would invite everyone with a stake in this (WMF, FDC, AffCom,
  Chapters,
 Thorgs, User Groups, interested individuals) to treat this as
  something
 where everyone can play a role in sharing experience, scoping out
 the
   way
 forward, and building a better way of doing this for the future!

 Regards,

 Chris


 (1)


   
  
 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-04-23/Special_report
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe:
  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
 ?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Assessing this round of FDC proposals, including the WMF's proposal

[Balázs Viczián]

imo WMF is a mid-to-large sized IT company operating on a non-pofit basis.

Whoever has _both_ the skillset (and history) of reviewing IT companies and
charities, both types above 100+ employees can be considered capable of
reviewing WMF as a whole.

Cheers,
Balazs
2014.04.25. 21:17, Michael Peel em...@mikepeel.net ezt írta:

 Hi Risker,

 Thanks for your thoughts.

  Instead I suggest that the FDC seek authorization from the Board for an
  independent third party review if it feels that there is not the
 necessary
  ability for the FDC to produce its own assessment.

 I'm personally curious to know whether you have any suggestions of third
 parties that might be able to carry out this sort of review, considering
 the requisite knowledge of the Wikimedia movement? It might be an option
 worth thinking about in future years.

 Thanks,
 Mike


 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How Wikimedia could help languages to survive

[Balázs Viczián]

imo there are a whole bunch of organizations and projects much better aimed
and developed towards this question; I'd rather map them and contact the
most developed ones instead of reinventing the wheel.

Cheers,
Balazs

PS: This because we can reasoning is very very thin btw. (source?)

2014-04-20 5:46 GMT+02:00 Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com:

 There are ~6000 languages in the world and around 3000 of them have
 more than 10,000 speakers.

 That approximation has some issues, but they are compensated by the
 ambiguity of the opposition. Ethnologue is not the best place to find
 precise data about the languages and it could count as languages just
 close varieties of one language, but it also doesn't count some other
 languages. Not all of the languages with 10,000 or more speakers have
 positive attitude toward their languages, but there are languages with
 smaller number of speakers with very positive attitude toward their
 own language.

 So, that number is what we could count as the realistic final number
 of the language editions of Wikimedia projects. At the moment, we have
 less than 300 language editions.

 * * *

 There is the question: Why should we do that? The answer is clear to
 me: Because we can.

 Yes, there are maybe more specific organizations which could do that,
 but it's not about expertise, but about ability. Fortunately, we don't
 need to search for historical examples for comparisons; the Internet
 is good enough.

 I still remember infographic of the time while all of us thought that
 Flickr is the place for images. It turned out that the biggest
 repository of images is actually Facebook, which had hundred times
 more of them than the Twitpic at the second place, which, in turn, had
 hundred times more of images than Flickr.

 In other words, the purpose of something and general perception of its
 purpose is not enough for doing good job. As well as comparisons
 between mismanaged internet projects and mismanaged traditional
 scientific and educational organizations are numerous.

 At this point of time Wikimedia all necessary capacities -- and even a
 will to take that job. So, we should start doing that, finally :)

 * * *

 There is also the question: How can we do that? In short, because of
 Wikipedia.

 I announced Microgrants project of Wikimedia Serbia yesterday. To be
 honest, we have very low expectations. When I said to Filip that I
 want to have 10 active community members after the project, he said
 that I am overambitious. Yes, I am.

 But ten hours later I've got the first response and I was very
 positively surprised by a lot of things. The most relevant for this
 story is that a person from a city in Serbia proper is very
 enthusiastic about Wikipedia and contributing to it (and organizing
 contributors in the area). I didn't hear that for years! (Maybe I was
 just too pessimistic because of my obsession with statistics.)

 Keeping in mind her position (she said that she was always complaining
 about lack of material on Serbian Wikipedia, although at this point of
 time it's the encyclopedia in Serbian with the most relevant content)
 and her enthusiasm, I am completely sure that many speakers of many
 small languages are dreaming from time to time to have Wikipedia in
 their native language.

 Like in the case of a Serbian from the fifth or sixth largest city in
 Serbia, I am sure that they just don't know how to do that. So, it's
 up to us to reach them.

 English Wikipedia has some influences on contemporary English language
 (citation needed, let's say). It has more influences on languages
 with smaller number of speakers, like Serbian is (Cyrillic/Latin
 cultural war in Serbia was over at the moment when Serbian Wikipedia
 implemented transliteration engine; it's no issue now, while it was
 the issue up to mid 2000s).

 But it's about well developed languages in the cultural sense. What
 about not that developed ones? While I don't have an example of the
 effects (anyone, please?), counting the amount of the written
 materials in some languages, Wikipedia will (or already has) become
 the biggest book, sometimes the biggest library in that language; in
 some cases Wikipedia will create the majority of texts written in
 particular language!

 While we think about Wikipedia as valuable resource for learning about
 wide range of the topics, significance of Wikipedia for those peoples
 would be much higher. If we do the job, there will be many monuments
 to Wikipedia all over the world, because Wikipedia would preserve many
 cultures, not just the languages.

 * * *

 There is the question How?, at the end. There are numerous of
 possible ways and there are also some tries to do that, but we have to
 create the plan how to do that systematically, well, according to our
 principles and goals and according to the reality.

 What we know from our previous experiences:

 * The number of editors has declined and, at the moment, without a
 miracle (or hard work, but I 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Funding of decentralized organizational structure

[Balázs Viczián]

Imo having a centralized funding model is very good against corruption (we
had a couple of cases already and unfortunately we will some in the future)

As a side comment, it would be nice if we could learn the total
donations/country figures ( for example: Hungary 2013: $12,345.67) If this
info is already public then sorry, I was unable to locate it myself.

Balazs

2014-04-10 16:20 GMT+02:00 mathias.dam...@laposte.net:

 Hi,

  Message du 10/04/14 15:28
  De : Anders Wennersten
  A : wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Copie à :
  Objet : Re: [Wikimedia-l] Funding of decentralized organizational
 structure
 
 (...)
 And I would be unhappy if the divergence between project became too big,
 POV paid editing etc we will be stronger as a totality if we abide to the
 same base guidelines So I question your urge and need to decentralize. For
 am as a contributer the most important part is that I know my inputs is
 securely stored and will not be misused by actors like google or plain
 advertising. And for this reason I believe in a centralized structure as
 about today (for now) Anders

 I don't tink that Ting Chen is disputing that the WMF should keep the core
 work. Yet the core work may mean about 20% of the movement resources
 instead of 90%...

 Mathias
 [[User:Astirmays]]

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

[Balázs Viczián]

Imo the lines were said by a member of a board of a chapter in her official
capacity as she was attending a board training paid fully by the global
community (unless she paid everything on her own and never got reimbursed
for anything)

If you keep up with this approach (which will for sure culminate in actions
clearly ignoring/fucking the community) in one day you will reach the
point when the community will say so, then fuck you too.

Obviously not today, neither tomorrow, but when it comes, that day will be
the last day, when you were able to buy free stuff or travel around the
world for free or in short: have money. Until that day comes it is true
that this is not an issue, you can get away with it, 'nuff said.

The main issue here are her solution(s) to problem solving/fulfilling the
mission. Even worse that a handful of people supports it in this thread,
namely a) spending money or b) spending more money. This is very poor/lazy
thinking.

Those having these two only in mind (or as primary solutions), should leave
their chapter positions for more creative people.

Cheers,

Vince

PS: this thread strenghtens my impression [1] that some chapters are rather
breakaway groups than (integral) parts of their local community.

[1]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AFuture_of_the_Wikimedia_Conferencediff=5611433oldid=5611349


2014.04.08. 12:21, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com ezt írta:

 Hoi,
 One reason is that the license of Wikidata is questioned by members of the
 Wikidata community.
 Thanks,
  GerardM


 On 8 April 2014 11:27, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Gerard Meijssen
  gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote:
 
   Hoi,
   From where I stand ie Wikidata, the license we use is CC-0. When a GLAM
   wants to share data it has to be CC-0. When it is CC-by or CC-by-sa, we
   cannot use it. We do not retrieve it from their database we will find
 the
   same data from elsewhere where there is no such burden.
  
   When people use CC-by-sa data in for instance Wikipedia, we do harvest
  that
   information because once it is embedded in Wikipedia, it is no longer
  part
   of the original database that prohibits us from using it based on the
   database rights. At that point it is part of a completely different set
  of
   information. It is retrieved one factoid at a time and the origin of
 the
   data is no longer an issue.
   Thanks,
 GerardM
  
 
  Why are we talking about the license of Wikidata in this thread?
 
  Come to think of it, why are we still talking at all in this thread?
 
 
 
  
  
   On 8 April 2014 10:40, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
  
Gerard,
I think you mean There are organisations that want to share CC-0
information with us under a CC-0 license and there are those who want
to share CC-0 information under a CC-by
license. We are fine with organizations sharing CC-by information
under a CC-by license, no?
   
O and I agree completely on the Wikidata thing.
   
Jane
PS: I also agree that the person who said these words is, in fact a
member of the community like the rest of us and therefore has every
right to use those words in a meeting during which community issues
are being discussed. I have heard worse in discussions by members of
one part of the community (Commons people) talking about other
 members
of the community (Dutch Wikipedians) and the other way around. Maybe
it's a cultural thing and we swear a lot in our internal meetups in
the Netherlands, dunno about that, but I never felt offended when I
heard these statements and in context have agreed with both parties.
   
2014-04-08 8:22 GMT+02:00, Gerard Meijssen 
 gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
  :
 Hoi,
 Take one step back. What our aim is, is to share in the sum of all
 knowledge. Arguably, this is the main and overriding objective of
  what
   we
 do. There are many strategies to get to the point where we share
 information. From where I stand, with Wikidata we have the
  opportunity
   to
 do better than with an only Wikipedia strategy: with Wikipedia we
  share
the
 sum of knowledge that is available in one Wikipedia and with
 Wikidata
   we
 share in the sum of all the knowledge that is available to us.

 Wikidata provides access to more information than any Wikipedia by
 a
large
 margin.

 There are those in our communities who aim to restrict the
 practices
   that
 realise Wikidata as the resource of information that is available
 to
   us.
To
 say it in a political correct way, they can be and should be
 ignored.
There
 are organisations that want to share information with us under a
 CC-0
 license and there are those who want to share information under a
  CC-by
 license. The later can and should be ignored as well.

 However, when I am to argue these points in a 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

[Balázs Viczián]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AFuture_of_the_Wikimedia_Conferencediff=5611433oldid=5611349

imo.

Vince



2014-04-02 20:32 GMT+02:00 Cornelius Kibelka jckibe...@gmail.com:

 Yes, finally the discussion we need!  Pity that it happens only one week
 before the conference itself.

 My point of view:
 We have different types of conference: GLAMCamp, EduWiki, Wikimania,
 whatever.

 Beside Wikimania, which is quite a fruit salad of topics and themes and
 seen as *the* gathering of the global Wikimedia community, all of thoses
 confereces have quite a special, limited scope. I see the Wikimedia
 Conference as the highly political, meta level conference. This is the only
 meeting in the year where we can discuss governance, strategy, movement
 politics issues only, excluding all the programmatic work. As it is the
 only meeting of this type during the year, at least a part of the programme
 team tried to keep all the sessions in this meta scope. We felt a need for
 those topics, which can't be discussed at those other meetings.

 Obviously, it doesn't seem to be so clear for many people. Maybe the
 majority even thinks that we don't even need that type of conference. Who
 knows.., all discussion adressing this issue fizzled out in the last three
 past.

 However, please think about this! It's important. At the conference we'll
 have a special session about this, the session is called actually Future
 of the Wikimedia Conference. We need input from everyone to see how we
 should continue and what should happen next year.

 Best
 Cornelius

 
 Cornelius Kibelka

 Twitter: @jaancornelius
 Mobile:+351-91-9860232 (Vodafone PT)
 German number currently offline




 On 2 April 2014 19:16, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com wrote:

  
  
  
   I am genuinely puzzled as to why, if nobody on the WMUK board (such as
   the CEO or the current Chairman) is sure what the purpose of the
   conference is, they should chose to invest the donor's money in
   sending 5 trustees and 3 full time employees to it (presumably the
   employees are being paid for their time rather than going as
   volunteers).
  
  
  Just to be clear, I know what the benefits we will get out of it are,
 and I
  can tell you the direction that I would like the conference to take in
  future; I'm just wondering whether others have the same perception.
 
  This is not a new question, as Nathan has pointed out, and he is probably
  right to say it is best to continue it here;
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
 
  Chris
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
 
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Extensive feedback from WMDE to the FDC process

[Balázs Viczián]

My five cents here would be that how about considering longer time frames
for grants, like 2-3-5 years (I was too tired to understandably explain
this yesterday to Anasuya)

Here in Hungary individuals can offer 1% of their income tax to nonprofit
organizations (these are accounted and transferred to the nonprofits by the
state) These funds must be spent within 3 years (so not 1 but 3) from their
reception (unused funds has to be transferred back at the end of the 3rd
year).

Cheers,
Vince

*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország Egyesület*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazinhttp://huwiki.blogspot.hu
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia


2014/1/17 Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se

 While I believe the FDC process by now is well understood and
 communicated, I feel the understanding of the actual group, FDC and the
 deliberation we perform is less well understood (and communicated)

 And if WMDE feedback will be elaborated upon, I think it will be of value
 understanding FDC and the deliberation process and I have therefor put
 down a short description of this on the talkpage, based on my own
 experience as one of its member (1)

 I see very much in this feedback related to the prerequisites to the FDC,
 not how we have implemented our inputs into recommendations. Also I think
 some of the wanted more detailed feedback and interaction with the FDC as a
 group is very hard to implement considering how our deliberation process
 for now is set up .  But feedback is always a good thing and hopefully this
 feedback can be processed to improve the process and give all involved a
 happier feeling of the funds dissemination in the future.

 Anders

 (1) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/FDC_
 portal/Comments/Extensive_feedback_from_WMDE_to_the_FDC_
 process#FDC_as_a_group

 Pavel Richter skrev 2014-01-15 17:36:

  Hello everybody,

 I have just posted an extensive feedback from WMDE on the FDC process here
 on meta:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_portal/
 Comments/Extensive_feedback_from_WMDE_to_the_FDC_process

 The statement was drafted by WMDE's Supervisory Board and myself.

 We are very much looking forward to a discussion and I would like to
 encourage everybody to share their thoughts. At the same it would be great
 if we could keep the discussion on meta so that we have everything in one
 place.

 All the Best,

 Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

 Pavel Richter
 Vorstand

 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
 Tel.: +49 - 30 - 219 158 260
 Twitter: @pavel
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe



 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Basic income Wikimedians

[Balázs Viczián]

I like such proposals (sarcasm).

where do you get the money from, what you wish to distribute?

In general free money - less people will work (why to work if I still get
money? - see the masses living on unemployment benefits - libre time :) )
- less people working - higher taxes - people will be :( on both ends.
Higher minimum! Lower taxes! Down with the government! Yay.

Printing money would lead to inflation - more money worth less.

And these are the basic, most visible IRL effects.

Pls forget these economical nonsenses.

Cheers,
Vince


2014/1/9 Risker risker...@gmail.com

 I'd suggest that income is not a particularly significant factor in whether
 or not people participate in the Wikimedia movement, particularly as
 editors.  Infrastructure including internet access, education, and
 availability of technology are far more significant.

 These are all abundantly available in Europe, where we have probably the
 highest concentration of editors per capita (with the possible exception of
 the US).

 In fact, I can't help wondering how a discussion of a European basic
 minimum income really comes across to our colleagues who live in countries
 where daily wages are the equivalent of the cost of a cup of coffee and
 a pastry in most of Europe, North America, and other wealthy
 countries.  It's bothering me, and I live in one of those well to do
 countries.

 Risker
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Registration open for Chapter Board workshop

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi all,

As this event supposed to target guys like me, let me give you a short
feedback about the program.

I see nothing practical, nothing useful in it. It is full of defining this,
defining that sessions. And they are extremely long.

Not a word about financial planning, not a word about community management
(as chapter's community) nothing about volunteer recruitement, not a word
about negotiating (as negotiating skills, including convincing techniques
and other related knowledge) cost management (cost cutting, replanning),
managerial approaches and attitudes (managerial skills and styles, best
practices), etc. etc. The line is long.

I see no practical skills discussed, except if the aim is to make us able
to discuss chapter-related __theoretical__ things in a much deeper way than
before. Ever. Nice to have clear visions for the future though but what
this event covers is about 20% of what is called management altough I had
to admit, it is the most interesting 20%. For me too.

Cheers,
Balazs

*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország Egyesület*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazinhttp://huwiki.blogspot.hu
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia


2013/12/6 Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com

 Hi Laura,

 Actually I hope both larger and smaller organisations will gain from this
 event. Larger organisations' boards certainly need training and support as
 much as smaller ones, though there are different challenges at different
 stages of development.

 I'm pleased to say of the people who have registered so far there is a
 broad mixture from three continents and I hope we will be able to fund as
 many people as possible.

 It would certainly be great if there was more support available for
 organisations just starting out, available for free. So far as I know,
 no-one has ever taken a synoptic look at the support and development needs
 of Wikimedia movement organisations and tried to work out how to meet them.
 Who might take that on and how it might be funded is an open question.

 Regards,

 Chris
 Hi Chris,

 If there is only one Wikimedia Foundation board recognised thematic
 organization, why did you chose to use a plural?  And The Wikinewsie Group
 has aff-comm recognition, and as the Board has never rejected an aff-comm
 recommendation, I don't particularly see the problem.

 What I do see as problematic is WM-UK organizing this conference, talking
 about chapters moving towards professionalism in the context of the
 Wikimedia Movement while charging chapters and a thematic organization to
 attend, selecting a hotel for participants to stay at that costs above the
 per diem rate that the WMF funds for, and then saying there is the
 expectation that it will not be an issue for people to attend with the high
 registration fee and high accomodation costs because these will not be
 incurred by individuals but by their organizations.

 As the Movement appears to be having a discussion about finacial
 responsibility and effect use of donor funds, that sort of approach appears
 to run counter to all of that.  No explanation other than We talked down
 the price! appears to have been forth coming as to why a place was
 selected that costs roughly USD$200 a night.  There is no agenda for this
 conference to understand why the conference is worth that expensive costs.
  The people presenting clearly are not in need of the conference as it is
 Wikimedia UK, Wikimedia DE, Wikimedia PL, Wikimedia France.  These are by
 and large the chapters with FDC funding or access to independent sources of
 funding.  They are clearly not being targetted for training.  The people
 who appear to be targetted as attendees are ones who have no money... and
 you're off to charge them large amounts.

 I don't see how these costs, which you expect to be absorbed by donor
 funds, are a good use of those funds.  I don't see how expecting people to
 incur expenses over around USD$850 to attend a two day conference ($400 for
 two nights, $65 for registration, $230 for a flight from somewhere close in
 Europe, $50 to get to the event from the airport, $100 in food) where the
 thing starts out by violating WMF guidelines.

 What knowledge exactly are you planning to pass on to people from less
 developed chapters?  Fiscal responsibility, best use of donor funds,
 following WMF's best practices for grant funding...  These are off the
 table?  What else is there?

 Sincerely,
 Laura Hale

 On Friday, December 6, 2013, Chris Keating wrote:

  Hi Laura, you can bypass the registration fee by selecting other payment
  option in the way I said.
 
  In response to another off list query, I should point out that
  unfortunately this workshop is only open to existing (incorporated 
  recognised) chapters/thorgs, not those still in planning or awaiting
  recognition.
 
 
 
 

 --
 mobile:   635209416
 twitter: 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Registration open for Chapter Board workshop

[Balázs Viczián]

Well, this answer should be amongst the how not examples, worthy having
an own topic itself.

Another topic not related to the event but highly relevant for the answer
from Chris: freebies. Obvious issue never spoken of.

This event can be held anywhere in the world as long as it is free for
the participants (no own money spent), you'll always have full house. You
don't really need anything else than covering expenses. No problem with
last minute programming, declined WMF funding or whatever. Expenses
covered? They'll be there.

Cheers,
Balazs

2013/12/6 Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com

 Thanks Balazs! All 20 spaces on the workshop are now taken. :)


 On 6 Dec 2013 18:48, Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu wrote:

  Hi all,
 
  As this event supposed to target guys like me, let me give you a short
  feedback about the program.
 
  I see nothing practical, nothing useful in it. It is full of defining
 this,
  defining that sessions. And they are extremely long.
 
  Not a word about financial planning, not a word about community
 management
  (as chapter's community) nothing about volunteer recruitement, not a
 word
  about negotiating (as negotiating skills, including convincing techniques
  and other related knowledge) cost management (cost cutting, replanning),
  managerial approaches and attitudes (managerial skills and styles, best
  practices), etc. etc. The line is long.
 
  I see no practical skills discussed, except if the aim is to make us able
  to discuss chapter-related __theoretical__ things in a much deeper way
 than
  before. Ever. Nice to have clear visions for the future though but what
  this event covers is about 20% of what is called management altough I
 had
  to admit, it is the most interesting 20%. For me too.
 
  Cheers,
  Balazs
 
  *Balazs Viczian*
  Executive Vice President
  *Wikimédia Magyarország Egyesület*
 
  Tel: +36 70 633 6372
  Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
  Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin
  http://huwiki.blogspot.hu
  Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
 
 
  2013/12/6 Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com
 
   Hi Laura,
  
   Actually I hope both larger and smaller organisations will gain from
 this
   event. Larger organisations' boards certainly need training and support
  as
   much as smaller ones, though there are different challenges at
 different
   stages of development.
  
   I'm pleased to say of the people who have registered so far there is a
   broad mixture from three continents and I hope we will be able to fund
 as
   many people as possible.
  
   It would certainly be great if there was more support available for
   organisations just starting out, available for free. So far as I know,
   no-one has ever taken a synoptic look at the support and development
  needs
   of Wikimedia movement organisations and tried to work out how to meet
  them.
   Who might take that on and how it might be funded is an open question.
  
   Regards,
  
   Chris
   Hi Chris,
  
   If there is only one Wikimedia Foundation board recognised thematic
   organization, why did you chose to use a plural?  And The Wikinewsie
  Group
   has aff-comm recognition, and as the Board has never rejected an
 aff-comm
   recommendation, I don't particularly see the problem.
  
   What I do see as problematic is WM-UK organizing this conference,
 talking
   about chapters moving towards professionalism in the context of the
   Wikimedia Movement while charging chapters and a thematic organization
 to
   attend, selecting a hotel for participants to stay at that costs above
  the
   per diem rate that the WMF funds for, and then saying there is the
   expectation that it will not be an issue for people to attend with the
  high
   registration fee and high accomodation costs because these will not be
   incurred by individuals but by their organizations.
  
   As the Movement appears to be having a discussion about finacial
   responsibility and effect use of donor funds, that sort of approach
  appears
   to run counter to all of that.  No explanation other than We talked
 down
   the price! appears to have been forth coming as to why a place was
   selected that costs roughly USD$200 a night.  There is no agenda for
 this
   conference to understand why the conference is worth that expensive
  costs.
The people presenting clearly are not in need of the conference as it
 is
   Wikimedia UK, Wikimedia DE, Wikimedia PL, Wikimedia France.  These are
 by
   and large the chapters with FDC funding or access to independent
 sources
  of
   funding.  They are clearly not being targetted for training.  The
 people
   who appear to be targetted as attendees are ones who have no money...
 and
   you're off to charge them large amounts.
  
   I don't see how these costs, which you expect to be absorbed by donor
   funds, are a good use of those funds.  I don't see how expecting people
  to
   incur expenses over

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who will host Wikimedia Conference 2014? Bidding process is open!

[Balázs Viczián]

I wrote a sort of a programme proposal on the talk page in June. If nothing
else comes up, you may take that as a basis to start the discussion from
somewhere.

Find it under content.

Cheers,
Balazs
User:Vince

2013/10/2 Nicole Ebber nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de

 Hey Chris,

 it's all on meta. I was hoping for someone to pick up this topic and
 call for members.

 Here we go, anyone interested in working on the heart of the
 conference – the programme?

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Programme_team

 (I thought programme team sounded a bit more suitable then committee. ;))

 Cheers,
 Nicole

 On 30 September 2013 21:02, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Indeed! Given that a while back people were asking whether this
 conference
  would happen *at all* it is very good to see that there are four chapters
  willing to host. Many thanks to Germany, Sweden, India and Italy. :-)
 
  I am not sure whether anyone has called for a programme committee or
  similar yet - is that part of the process?
 
  Regards,
 
  Chris
  Wikimedia UK Chair
 
 
  On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Cristian Consonni
  kikkocrist...@gmail.comwrote:
 
  ... and there's also Italy!
 
  WM-IT wants to put to good use the 2013's experience, so here's our
  application:
 
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Application_4:_WMI
 
  (also, the venue for this WMConf is very close to the location of this
  bid for Wikimania[1], the bid as been started by some WM-IT and the
  chapter as a whole will a vote to officially support the bid during
  the General Assembly on October 19th, 2013)
 
  Four bids, exciting!
 
  Cristian
  [1]
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids/Lake_Como_(Esino_Lario)
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe



 --
 Nicole Ebber
 International Affairs

 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
 Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0

 http://wikimedia.de

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
 unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
 Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who will host Wikimedia Conference 2014? Bidding process is open!

[Balázs Viczián]

Imo would be nice to know what to bid for before bidding at all...

If it is that struggling to find out what is WMConf is about, I suggest
dropping it at all (as per the evolution of Wikimania, it would be a
reasonable decision) and create small, thematic workshops instead (see the
PED workshop in Budapest in July)

Vince


2013/9/17 Nicole Ebber nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de

 Hi Balázs,

 thanks for asking. I wanted to focus on the location committee first,
 and then send a call for input and volunteers for the programme
 committee within the next days.

 Best,
 Nicole



 On 16 September 2013 21:31, Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
 wrote:
  would be nice to learn more about the programme committee; who are
 they,
  what are their duties, etc.
 
  Cheers,
  Balázs
 
  2013/9/16 Nicole Ebber nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de
 
  Dear Wikimedia friends,
 
  following up on the emails Asaf and I sent a few weeks ago, I have now
  drafted the bidding process to decide upon the location for next
  year’s Wikimedia Conference. This event will not only host the annual
  Chapters’/Affiliates’ conference, but also the WMF board, FDC and
  AffCom meetings and is meant to take place in April 2014 (tbc).
 
 
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Bidding_process_for_hosting_the_next_Wikimedia_Conference
 
  == LOCATION COMMITTEE ==
  I would like to see a small location committee (3 representatives of
  affiliates, 1 AffCom and 1 WMF) to decide about the hosting chapter.
  Asaf and Bence already agreed upon joining the committee, and it would
  be nice to see someone from WMIT there, as they have the freshest
  experience. So if you have severe experience with conference
  organisation, please consider joining the committee now!
 
  == WANNA HOST WMCON 2014? ==
  All chapters who are interested in organising the conference in 2014
  are invited to place a short bid on Meta. The bids should be made
  until 30 September, a decision should be available before 15 October.
  The winning organisation will be responsible for all the logistics, as
  in: venue, catering, travel and visa arrangements, accommodation,
  technical equipment, social events, communication with and support for
  the participants, coordination with the programme committee and the
  facilitators.
 
  I hope that if we can take the logistics and location for granted,
  this will help us focus on the content and sustainability of the
  event. I have written more about the programme part on Meta.
 
  Thanks to Asaf and Bence for giving their valuable input to the set-up
  of this process. Since WMDE has kind of a traditional interest in
  having a good conference, I am happy to take a leading role in
  organising this process. Any help is highly appreciated! I am looking
  forward to an exciting Wikimedia Conference 2014. \o/
 
  Nicole
 
 
  --
  Nicole Ebber
  International Affairs
 
  Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
 
  http://wikimedia.de
 
  Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
  Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
  unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
  Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe



 --
 Nicole Ebber
 International Affairs

 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
 Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0

 http://wikimedia.de

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
 unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
 Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who will host Wikimedia Conference 2014? Bidding process is open!

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

This event can be installed to any city: given the requirements I can
organize it at any city having a conference centre large enough, from
Sopron, Hungary (
http://www.prokultura.hu/hu/konferenciak/rendezvenytermek.html , 5 section
rooms, 2 large halls, a theatre, etc.) to Mexico City, Mexico (
http://www.centrobanamex.com.mx/en/installations/ this technically a
stadium) and anywhere in between each direction. All of these locations
have staff, therefore it is just a matter of how much WMF is willing to
spend on it.

The thing is that you should start building from the bottom, not from the
top. A venue can be secured as late as 3 months before the event to give
everyone enough time to plan and get cheap tickets (and I mean first
minute, not last minute). Most airline and international train tickets are
the cheapest if you buy them ~3 months in advance. Not much later, nor
earlier, because both are being penalized by higher fees. We can find out
where to have the event as late as early January

Balazs


2013/9/18 Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@gmail.com

 Hi,

 necessity and meaningfulness are not going hand-by-hand together.

 Frankly this event can be installed to any city: given the requirements I
 can organize it at any city having a conference centre large enough, from
 Sopron, Hungary (
 http://www.prokultura.hu/hu/konferenciak/rendezvenytermek.html , 5
 section rooms, 2 large halls, a theatre, etc.) to Mexico City, Mexico (
 http://www.centrobanamex.com.mx/en/installations/ this technically a
 stadium) and anywhere in between each direction.

 The thing is that you should start building from the bottom, not from the
 top. A venue can be secured as late as 3 month before the event to give
 everyone enough time to plan and get cheap tickets (and I mean first
 minute, not last minute). Most airline and international train tickets are
 the cheapest if you buy them ~3 months in advance. Not much later, nor
 earlier, because both are being penalized by higher fees. We can find out
 where to have the event as late as early January.

 Balazs



 2013/9/18 Cornelius Kibelka jckibe...@gmail.com

 Vince,

 That may be true. But maybe you remember that Nicole some months ago tried
 to initiate a discussion process about the Conference, almost nobody
 replied or was engaged in the discussion.

 So now we have to hurry up, if we want a conference or a meeting at all in
 early 2014. After that or even at the Conference itself we can discuss the
 future of this type of gathering.

 I think, personally, an Affiliate conference is absolutely necessary. The
 design of the conference itself is up to the future programme committee.
 Of
 course, as you suggest, more thematic slots are (more) useful instead of
 the three days talking about the state of the chapters. However, that's an
 other discussion.

 Best
 Cornelius
 
 Cornelius Kibelka

 Mobile: +49-1520-7226062
 Twitter: @jaancornelius
 Am 18.09.2013 10:01 schrieb Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
 :

  Imo would be nice to know what to bid for before bidding at all...
 
  If it is that struggling to find out what is WMConf is about, I suggest
  dropping it at all (as per the evolution of Wikimania, it would be a
  reasonable decision) and create small, thematic workshops instead (see
 the
  PED workshop in Budapest in July)
 
  Vince
 
 
  2013/9/17 Nicole Ebber nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de
 
   Hi Balázs,
  
   thanks for asking. I wanted to focus on the location committee first,
   and then send a call for input and volunteers for the programme
   committee within the next days.
  
   Best,
   Nicole
  
  
  
   On 16 September 2013 21:31, Balázs Viczián 
 balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
   wrote:
would be nice to learn more about the programme committee; who are
   they,
what are their duties, etc.
   
Cheers,
Balázs
   
2013/9/16 Nicole Ebber nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de
   
Dear Wikimedia friends,
   
following up on the emails Asaf and I sent a few weeks ago, I have
 now
drafted the bidding process to decide upon the location for next
year’s Wikimedia Conference. This event will not only host the
 annual
Chapters’/Affiliates’ conference, but also the WMF board, FDC and
AffCom meetings and is meant to take place in April 2014 (tbc).
   
   
   
  
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Bidding_process_for_hosting_the_next_Wikimedia_Conference
   
== LOCATION COMMITTEE ==
I would like to see a small location committee (3 representatives
 of
affiliates, 1 AffCom and 1 WMF) to decide about the hosting
 chapter.
Asaf and Bence already agreed upon joining the committee, and it
 would
be nice to see someone from WMIT there, as they have the freshest
experience. So if you have severe experience with conference
organisation, please consider joining the committee now!
   
== WANNA HOST WMCON 2014? ==
All chapters who are interested in organising

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The next Wikimedia Conference (AKA Chapters' Meeting)

[Balázs Viczián]

There was some discussions between Claudia (WMAT) and Andrea (WMHU) during
the PED worshop held in Budapest about hosting a joint Wikimedia Conference
next year, maybe in Sopron (50mins from Vienna by train) or in Győr (1,5hrs
from three major airports int the region - Budapest, Vienna and Bratislava)

Balázs

2013/8/30 Charles Andrès charles.andres.w...@gmail.com

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Events/upcoming


 done

 Wikimedia CH step in for the Hackathon in 2014 and for the Wikimedia
 Conference 2015


 sincerely

 Charles



 ___
 I use this email for mailing list only.

 « Je donne mon avis non comme bon mais comme mien.  » (Michel de Montaigne)

 Charles ANDRES
 Wikimedia CH – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
 www.wikimedia.ch
 Skype: charles.andres.wmch
 IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch

 Le 30 août 2013 à 18:39, Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl a écrit :

  Hello,
  Another coincidence: WMNL is very much interested in hosting a big
  international GLAM event in 2015. How about if there is a page on Meta
  where we collect the intentions and plans for the following years, with
  regard to the major conventions:
  * Wikimania
  * WM Conference, the former chapters meeting
  * GLAM event
  * Hackathon
  * Education event?
  Kind regards
  Ziko
 
 
 
  Am Freitag, 30. August 2013 schrieb Nicole Ebber :
 
  Hey, what a coincidence. Minutes ago I posted a suggestion to
  chapters-l and copied it to the talk page of the Future of the
  Wikimedia Conference page. Glad the we bring the discussion to the
  next level now. Thanks, Asaf! :)
 
 
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Coming_up_with_a_location_first
 
  Cheers,
  Nicole
 
  On 30 August 2013 16:45, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote:
  Hello All:
 
  Following our most recent, successful, community gathering in Hong Kong
  - A
  BIG thank you, again, to everyone who made it such an event to
 remember -
  we are looking ahead to the annual Wikimedia Conference (AKA Chapters'
  Meeting.)
 
  As many of you know, we typically await the offer of a specific group
 to
  host the event each year.  While this process has more or less worked
 in
  the past, we are increasingly aware that waiting until close to the
  gathering to decide on the date and the location creates an unnecessary
  inconvenience to those planning to attend and results in higher fees
 for
  travel and lodging that could be avoided if we worked together to plan
  further ahead.
 
  Wikimedia Deutschland had helpfully started a conversation about the
  future
  of the Wikimedia Conference, on Meta[1], including the question of
  settling
  the host group.  Regrettably, there has been practically no engagement
  with
  that page so far.  (For my part, I have deliberately been waiting for a
  few
  movement groups to speak first, as I wanted to avoid priming the
  conversation with the (perceived) weight of WMF's voice.)
 
  It has occurred to us that two of the reasons that we are not able to
  plan
  further ahead may be 1. the somewhat vague nature of the planning
 process
  and 2. that groups who may want to host hesitate because of an
  uncertainty
  regarding the costs involved in hosting such a large event.
 
  Therefore, we would like to provide some basic information about the
  Wikimedia Conference and begin a community conversation regarding how
 me
  might work together to set the date and location by, say, November of
 the
  year preceding the event; thus giving those who want to attend plenty
 of
  time to plan and saving the movement and each of the groups the higher
  cost
  of last minute lodging arrangements and airline ticket purchases.
 
  Additionally, planning ahead will allow all of the chapters who wish to
  send participants to contribute to the agenda for the gathering; thus
  making sure that all of the issues that the participants would like to
  discuss are addressed at this annual conference.
 
  *==First a bit about the purpose of the Wikimedia Conference==*
  *An opportunity for Wikimedia movement organizations to meet
 face-to-face
  and share ideas about projects and practices and to discuss any
  unresolved
  issues that may have come up during the past year.
  *A venue for one of the quarterly Wikimedia Foundation Board of
 Trustees
  meetings and an opportunity for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of
  Trustees
  and Wikimedia movement organizations to meet and talk.
  *A venue for the Funds Dissemination Committee to meet to assess the
  funding proposals for Round 2 of the current year and provide
  recommendations on those proposals to the WMF Board.
 
  We thought that beginning a discussion regarding hosting requirements
  i.e. venue size, accessibility of lodging near the venue, handicapped
  accessibility, ease of air and ground transit in and out of the venue
  location, visa application process, Internet access, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF's New Global South Strategy

[Balázs Viczián]

What about making it simply global...?

Balázs
2013.08.30. 2:44, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org ezt írta:

 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 5:30 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:

 
  The first section was removed? I got excited to see the term Global
  South with a line through it (in the agenda index), but I think I
  initially misunderstood its meaning.


 No, the strikethrough was a visual cue that the _term_ Global South is
 emphatically not on the agenda.


  The term Global South is pretty
  awful and deserves a quick death.


 Agreed...


  But based on the title of the
  presentation and this e-mail thread... I'm not hopeful that it's dead
 yet.
 

 ...but what do we replace it with?  This has been rehashed quite a bit, but
 no one has come up with a compelling alternative that's reasonably concise
 and is politically acceptable.  (Personally I am happy with developing
 world and developing nations, but of course those terms are euphemistic
 as well, and apparently no longer acceptable in some circles.)

 I have stated before that the term, for us, is just shorthand for a list of
 countries, and we make no essentialist assumptions about some uniformity
 throughout all these countries.  It is my understanding that most of the
 consternation (kittens dying etc.) the term causes is due to the assumption
 that we _are_ making an essentialist assumption and treating all GS
 countries the same.  I hope it is by now evident we are not.

 Once again, I find no point to debating this.  All who _are_ interested are
 welcome to hash it out somewhere, and submit a consensual term (or a
 shortlist) to WMF for consideration.  If a superior term arises, I promise
 to make an effort to adopt it across WMF.  Until then, let's focus on the
 actual work rather than the nomenclature.


  I'm a little confused about whether the ongoing programs in Brazil and
  India will continue. There's a note that reads No WMF contractors on the
  ground any more, but it's unclear whether this means a discontinuation
 of
  the current folks. And the final slides focus on future engagements. Does
  the no contractors on the ground line mean only full-time staff will be
  working with (engaging with, if you prefer) areas in the future?
 Full-time
  staff and local chapter folks, I guess? And simply no Wikimedia
 Foundation
  contractors?
 

 There are no WMF employees outside the US, so no contractors on the
 ground (in the GS context -- we still have engineers around the world!)
 means that (once the Brazil transition is complete -- this is in progress),
 no program work in the GS will be done by WMF contractors, but only by
 local partners (movement affiliates -- chapters, thematic organizations,
 and user groups -- and unaffiliated partners), some of whom would be WMF
 grantees.

 Cheers,

A.
 --
 Asaf Bartov
 Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org

 Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
 sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
 https://donate.wikimedia.org
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF's New Global South Strategy

[Balázs Viczián]

What about making it simply global...?

Balázs
2013.08.30. 2:44, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org ezt írta:

 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 5:30 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:

 
  The first section was removed? I got excited to see the term Global
  South with a line through it (in the agenda index), but I think I
  initially misunderstood its meaning.


 No, the strikethrough was a visual cue that the _term_ Global South is
 emphatically not on the agenda.


  The term Global South is pretty
  awful and deserves a quick death.


 Agreed...


  But based on the title of the
  presentation and this e-mail thread... I'm not hopeful that it's dead
 yet.
 

 ...but what do we replace it with?  This has been rehashed quite a bit, but
 no one has come up with a compelling alternative that's reasonably concise
 and is politically acceptable.  (Personally I am happy with developing
 world and developing nations, but of course those terms are euphemistic
 as well, and apparently no longer acceptable in some circles.)

 I have stated before that the term, for us, is just shorthand for a list of
 countries, and we make no essentialist assumptions about some uniformity
 throughout all these countries.  It is my understanding that most of the
 consternation (kittens dying etc.) the term causes is due to the assumption
 that we _are_ making an essentialist assumption and treating all GS
 countries the same.  I hope it is by now evident we are not.

 Once again, I find no point to debating this.  All who _are_ interested are
 welcome to hash it out somewhere, and submit a consensual term (or a
 shortlist) to WMF for consideration.  If a superior term arises, I promise
 to make an effort to adopt it across WMF.  Until then, let's focus on the
 actual work rather than the nomenclature.


  I'm a little confused about whether the ongoing programs in Brazil and
  India will continue. There's a note that reads No WMF contractors on the
  ground any more, but it's unclear whether this means a discontinuation
 of
  the current folks. And the final slides focus on future engagements. Does
  the no contractors on the ground line mean only full-time staff will be
  working with (engaging with, if you prefer) areas in the future?
 Full-time
  staff and local chapter folks, I guess? And simply no Wikimedia
 Foundation
  contractors?
 

 There are no WMF employees outside the US, so no contractors on the
 ground (in the GS context -- we still have engineers around the world!)
 means that (once the Brazil transition is complete -- this is in progress),
 no program work in the GS will be done by WMF contractors, but only by
 local partners (movement affiliates -- chapters, thematic organizations,
 and user groups -- and unaffiliated partners), some of whom would be WMF
 grantees.

 Cheers,

A.
 --
 Asaf Bartov
 Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org

 Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
 sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
 https://donate.wikimedia.org
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] About the concentration of resources in SF (itwas: Communication plans for community engagement

[Balázs Viczián]

Would be nice to see feasibility checks before outsourcing some tasks to
chapters to make sure they are prepared for the task.

Cheers,
Balazs


2013/8/26 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com

 Hi Romaine,

 In the absence of any practical description of what an office on each
 populated continent would do, or what concrete organizational role it
 would fulfill (other than bringing communities together), it seems
 unlikely that the WMF is going to immediately reverse its relatively
 recent decision to follow a strategy directly contrary to what you
 propose. The model that Quim outlines makes much more sense; the work
 of the movement can be dispersed more naturally when stakeholders take
 on projects and initiatives that the WMF can support with grant
 funding. These projects have evidently had far and away more success
 than either general funding of WMF affiliates or expanding the WMF
 itself into far-away lands.

 ~Nate

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal - Training for Wikimedia movement boards

[Balázs Viczián]

If you wish to educate board people, I think mailing lists and acronyms
should not cover a full bulletpoint of the event because they should have
that knowledge already

I miss volunteer management in particular what is imo amongst the basic
skills (it is totally different in many ways from paid staff mgmt) and
fundraising. (Omg, we got a donation...what to do now? :)

I'd go for general project (and time and workflow...) management instead of
particular this and that kinda specific things. Imo first get the big
picture, than the specific ones (Glam, editathon, etc.)

Are you plannig to hire a professional NGO trainer (individual[s])? A
training company specialized on NGOs? Or we should educate each other?

Cheers,
Balázs

2013/8/13 Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl

 Hello,
 Indeed it seems to me possible to fill a whole master studies with the
 things a board member should know :-) but I know that he meant something
 different. It would be a could idea to have board members going to
 trainings to be a board member in the specific country where they live. A
 course of a weekend, for example, would be already a good help. Everything
 must remain a little bit realistic.
 Possibly, some board members are more open to other Wikimedians than people
 from the outside world - possibly not. Narrowing the target group down to
 chapter board members to staff chapters is a good step, and I share the
 arguments on the Meta page. Maybe one should let participants apply for the
 seminar in a similar way as to Wikimania, in order to have those
 participants most likely to succeed. For example, if someone is already
 more than a year board member and likely to remain at least on a board for
 another year, that would be a pro.
 Kind regards
 Ziko


 Am Dienstag, 13. August 2013 schrieb David Gerard :

  On 13 August 2013 15:39, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com
 javascript:;
  wrote:
 
   True. Even worse, many do not even try to be board members (or active
   chapter members, for that matter) because they (think they) don't have
   enough experience. It's crucial to ensure the availability of growing
  paths
   (usually informal) for volunteers or you lose them and they lose
   opportunities.
   For me, it's been crucial to be told by a prof. you can learn the job
  of a
   [university] board member in 6 months (so it's inexcusable if you
 don't,
   but you must try). He was right.
 
 
  A very useful book: Nonprofit Kit For Dummies by Stan Hutton and
  Frances Phillips. I so wish I'd read it 25 years before I did. Very
  US-centric, but informative outside that.
 
 
  - d.
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:;
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:;
  ?subject=unsubscribe



 --


 
 Ziko van Dijk
 voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
 deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council

 Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
 Postbus 167
 3500 AD Utrecht
 http://wikimedia.nl

 
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] About the concentration of resources in SF (it was: Communication plans for community engagement

[Balázs Viczián]

Well, both Hungary and Budapest aims to be the RD center of the region.
There are multiple government and munipal funds and programmes plus a lot
of favouring policies on both administrative levels, including a full
dedicated neighbourhood on the bank of the Danube, named Infopark (since
1996 [1])

Setting up a formally for-profit company who's only contractor would be the
WMF (and/or other chapters) in BP can be funded well over 50% from non
movement funds (or low/no interest loans) during the first few years and
would be much much cheaper than any parts of Western Europe and most of the
CEE. Doing so though WMHU or a separate non-profit way - probaly also
doable.

However having one such department for the sake of having one is a total
waste of time, money and efforts everywhere in the World, so the main
question is: are there enough projects that could make establishing such a
department/spearate entity reasonable?

Balázs

[1] http://www.infopark.hu/lang/en/




 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:39 PM, rupert THURNER
 rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote:

  If WMF is serious about letting development activities grow in other
  countries this might be taken into account in FDCs allocation policy.

 For my part, I'm happy to offer feedback to the FDC on plans related
 to the development of engineering capacity in FDC-funded
 organizations. I'm sure Wikimedia Germany, too, would be happy to
 share its experiences growing the Wikidata development team. I'd love
 to find ways to bootstrap more engineering capacity across the
 movement, as so many of our shared challenges have a software
 engineering component. If any folks on-list want to touch base on
 these questions at Wikimania, drop me a note. :)

 Erik

 --
 Erik Möller
 VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] About the concentration of resources in SF (it was: Communication plans for community engagement

[Balázs Viczián]

Is WMF planning to outsource any of its engineering activities in the
future? Or are there enough projects in the queue that makes the effort
reasonable?

Otherwise I believe there is no point for any chapter to build out any
software engineering capacity above their local needs or at all.

Balázs



2013/7/24 Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org

 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:44 AM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote:
  I don't agree with Romaine's view that it is a cultural problem, but it
 is
  true that the WMF management seems to prefer to have all development
  concentrated in SF.

 Hardly. About half of WMF's engineering staff is distributed (both
 inside and outside the US), and we've encouraged and supported
 software engineering efforts by chapters. I'd actually love to see
 much more of that happen, and see other chapters build engineering
 capacity over time. It's legally challenging for WMF to have office
 presence in multiple jurisdictions, but having independent orgs like
 Wikimedia chapters build out development teams doesn't suffer from
 that challenge.

 We're an open source project; being able to decentralize effort is our
 strength. The caveat I would add is that you actually need to ensure
 that complex projects are resourced sufficiently. Wikidata is a
 success in part because it's a well-resourced, well-managed team, and
 the partnership in areas where WMF does need to help was carefully
 negotiated.

 So, which other chapters are up for building out serious software
 engineering capacity?

 Erik
 --
 Erik Möller
 VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: The most controversial topics in Wikipedia: A multilingual and geographical analysis

[Balázs Viczián]

When I started editing in 2006 it was already the norm; ever since people
are encouraging each other to place their questions about a given article
rather on the village pump or a project page, than on the actual article's
talk page, reasoning that there is larger trafficwhat generates even
larger traffic on those pages making article talks even more sparse :)

I guess only a socio-cultural research could answer the question: why is it
like that on huwiki. Maybe one day in the bright (and hopefully not so far)
future Wikimedia Hungary will order a similar research so you can use that
later on in your own research ;)

Üdv,
Balázs


2013/7/22 Taha Yasseri taha.yass...@oii.ox.ac.uk

 That's very interesting to know. Thanks for telling me. We were quite
 surprised by seeing very spars talk pages in Hungarian Wiki.
 I'm sure you know better than me that article talk pages are for different
 purposes that user talks and the village pump. However that's interesting
 that Hungarian Wikipedia prefer to take the discussion to other places than
 talk pages.

 szervusz
 Taha.

 On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Balázs Viczián 
 balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
  wrote:

  As a Hungarian, it is really interesting to read something specific
  about the Hungarian Wikipedia :)
 
  I read somewhere (correct me if I'm wrong) that you found little to no
  discussions on article talk pages on the Hungarian Wikipedia,
  indicating that users barely discuss the content (or anything at all
  about the given article).
 
  Actually these discussions are either quickly moving to the village
  pump after 1-2 comments or happening there entirely. The most common
  is that the users discuss it on their user talk pages by directly
  messaging each other about the changes they made/content, creating
  2-3-4 paralel threads on each others's user talks. Article talks for
  this reason are generally considered deserted lands on huwiki, what
  almost nobody reads.
 
  Cheers,
  Balázs
 
  2013/7/22 Taha Yasseri taha.yass...@oii.ox.ac.uk
  
   Anders,
   I really like your idea on universal articles. given the fact that
   translation and communication cross languages is not a very task these
  days
   any more.
  
   By the way, in a blog post, I have release some more data on languages
  like
   Japanese, Chinese, and Portugies, in case anyone's interested:
  
 
 http://tahayasseri.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/wikipedia-modern-platform-ancient-debates-on-land-and-gods/
  
   bests,
   Taha
  
  
   On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Anders Wennersten 
  m...@anderswennersten.se
wrote:
  
I see the difference on the different version as most interesting and
  to
have some insight into Arabic version, I have not had before
   
On a small version like sv:wp we are very used to steal with
 pride
content from other versions, primary en:wp but also de:wp and others
  and we
do this especially for controversial subjects that are not specific
  for a
country/culture. But are en:wp and other big versions doing the same?
  It is
very refreshing for a clinched discussion to start with an almost all
  new
textversion.
   
Also I wonder over articles like Homeopathy
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*
*Homeopathy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy which seems to
  be
in top of controversies. Would it be an idea to compile an unverisal
article with help from different versions, ie do we really utilize
 the
power of us having many versions and many experts?
   
Anders
   
   
   
Osmar Valdebenito skrev 2013-07-22 16:13:
   
 I was interviewed a few days ago from a Chilean newspaper because of
  this
paper. For those interested that can read Spanish here is the full
article:
http://www.latercera.com/**noticia/tendencias/2013/07/**
659-533645-9-estudio-dice-que-**chile-es-el-articulo-de-**
wikipedia-mas-editado-en-**espanol.shtml
 
 http://www.latercera.com/noticia/tendencias/2013/07/659-533645-9-estudio-dice-que-chile-es-el-articulo-de-wikipedia-mas-editado-en-espanol.shtml
  
   
I read the paper in full and I have to admit it has very interesting
approaches to remove the vandalism effect. Probably it won't be
  perfect,
especially for a platform where it is impossible to have an exact,
quantitative measure of quality or neutrality. Is there a measure of
controversiality? I will consider controversial those articles
 where I
usually edit and probably I will ignore several others that are more
controversial and so on...
   
But besides the particular issue of which is the most controversial
article, I'm more interested in the trends that each Wikipedia has.
  They
seem consistent and I think there is a lot of things that we can
 learn
from
it.
   
*Osmar Valdebenito G.*
Director Ejecutivo
A. C. Wikimedia Argentina
   
   
2013/7/22 Taha Yasseri taha.yass...@oii.ox.ac.uk
   
 Thanks Tilman

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The most controversial topics in Wikipedia: A multilingual and geographical analysis

[Balázs Viczián]

You may contact them directly with your concerns what I guess many did
after they published their study.

here is their homepage: http://wwm.phy.bme.hu/

Cheers,
Balázs


2013/7/21 MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com

 Anders Wennersten wrote:
 A most interesting study looking at findings from 10 different language
 versions.
 
 Jesus and Middle east are the most controversial articles seen over the
 world, but George Bush on en:wp and Chile on es:wp
 
 http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1305/1305.5566.pdf

 Thanks for sharing this.

 I had a bit of free time last night waiting for trains and I skimmed
 through the study and its findings. Two points stuck out at me: a
 seemingly fatally flawed methodology and the age of data used.

 The methodology used in this study seems to be pretty inherently flawed.
 According to the paper, controversiality was measured by full page
 reverts, which are fairly trivial to identify and study in a database dump
 (using cryptographic hashes, as the study did), but I don't think full
 reverts give an accurate impression _at all_ of which articles are the
 most controversial.

 Pages with many full reverts are indicative of pages that are heavily
 vandalized. For example, the George W. Bush article is/was heavily
 vandalized for years on the English Wikipedia. Does blanking the article
 or replacing its contents with the word penis mean that it's a very
 controversial article? Of course not. Measuring only full reverts (as the
 study seems to have done, though it's certainly possible I've overlooked
 something) seems to be really misleading and inaccurate.

 In order to measure how controversial an article is, there are a number of
 metrics that could be used, though of course no metric is perfect and many
 metrics can be very difficult to accurately and rigorously measure:

 * amount of talk page discussion generated for each article;
 * number of page watchers;
 * number of page views (possibly);
 * number of arbitration cases or other dispute resolution procedures
 related to the article (perhaps a key metric in determining which articles
 are truly most controversial); and
 * edit frequency and time between certain edits and partial or full
 reverts of those edits.

 There are likely a number of other metrics that could be used as well to
 measure controversiality; these were simply off the top of my head.

 The second point that stuck out at me was that the study relied on a
 database dump from March 2010. While this may be unavoidable, being over
 three years later, this introduces obvious bias into the data and its
 findings. Put another way, for the English Wikipedia started in 2001, this
 omits a quarter of the project's history(!). Again, given the length of
 time needed to draft and prepare a study, this gap may very well be
 unavoidable, but it certainly made me raise an eyebrow.

 One final comment I had from briefly reading the study was that in the
 past few years we've made good strides in making research like this
 easier. Not that computing cryptographic hashes is particularly intensive,
 but these days we now store such hashes directly in the database (though
 we store SHA-1 hashes, not MD5 hashes as the study used). Storing these
 hashes in the database saves researchers the need to compute the hashes
 themselves and allows MediaWiki and other software the ability to easily
 and quickly detect full reverts.

 MZMcBride

 P.S. Noting that this study is still a draft, I happened to notice a small
 typo on page nine: We tried to a as diverse as possible sample including
 West European [...]. Hopefully this can be corrected before formal
 publication.



 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: The most controversial topics in Wikipedia: A multilingual and geographical analysis

[Balázs Viczián]

As a Hungarian, it is really interesting to read something specific
about the Hungarian Wikipedia :)

I read somewhere (correct me if I'm wrong) that you found little to no
discussions on article talk pages on the Hungarian Wikipedia,
indicating that users barely discuss the content (or anything at all
about the given article).

Actually these discussions are either quickly moving to the village
pump after 1-2 comments or happening there entirely. The most common
is that the users discuss it on their user talk pages by directly
messaging each other about the changes they made/content, creating
2-3-4 paralel threads on each others's user talks. Article talks for
this reason are generally considered deserted lands on huwiki, what
almost nobody reads.

Cheers,
Balázs

2013/7/22 Taha Yasseri taha.yass...@oii.ox.ac.uk

 Anders,
 I really like your idea on universal articles. given the fact that
 translation and communication cross languages is not a very task these days
 any more.

 By the way, in a blog post, I have release some more data on languages like
 Japanese, Chinese, and Portugies, in case anyone's interested:
 http://tahayasseri.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/wikipedia-modern-platform-ancient-debates-on-land-and-gods/

 bests,
 Taha


 On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se
  wrote:

  I see the difference on the different version as most interesting and to
  have some insight into Arabic version, I have not had before
 
  On a small version like sv:wp we are very used to steal with pride
  content from other versions, primary en:wp but also de:wp and others and we
  do this especially for controversial subjects that are not specific for a
  country/culture. But are en:wp and other big versions doing the same? It is
  very refreshing for a clinched discussion to start with an almost all new
  textversion.
 
  Also I wonder over articles like Homeopathy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*
  *Homeopathy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy which seems to be
  in top of controversies. Would it be an idea to compile an unverisal
  article with help from different versions, ie do we really utilize the
  power of us having many versions and many experts?
 
  Anders
 
 
 
  Osmar Valdebenito skrev 2013-07-22 16:13:
 
   I was interviewed a few days ago from a Chilean newspaper because of this
  paper. For those interested that can read Spanish here is the full
  article:
  http://www.latercera.com/**noticia/tendencias/2013/07/**
  659-533645-9-estudio-dice-que-**chile-es-el-articulo-de-**
  wikipedia-mas-editado-en-**espanol.shtmlhttp://www.latercera.com/noticia/tendencias/2013/07/659-533645-9-estudio-dice-que-chile-es-el-articulo-de-wikipedia-mas-editado-en-espanol.shtml
 
  I read the paper in full and I have to admit it has very interesting
  approaches to remove the vandalism effect. Probably it won't be perfect,
  especially for a platform where it is impossible to have an exact,
  quantitative measure of quality or neutrality. Is there a measure of
  controversiality? I will consider controversial those articles where I
  usually edit and probably I will ignore several others that are more
  controversial and so on...
 
  But besides the particular issue of which is the most controversial
  article, I'm more interested in the trends that each Wikipedia has. They
  seem consistent and I think there is a lot of things that we can learn
  from
  it.
 
  *Osmar Valdebenito G.*
  Director Ejecutivo
  A. C. Wikimedia Argentina
 
 
  2013/7/22 Taha Yasseri taha.yass...@oii.ox.ac.uk
 
   Thanks Tilman.
 
  Especially for your effort to resolve the misunderstandings, which most
  of
  them I suppose are due to a shallow reading: I had a bit of free time
  last
  night waiting for trains and I skimmed  through the study and its
  findings.
 
  We had two strategies to get rid of vandalisms, as you mentioned,
  considering only mutual reverts and waiting editors by their maturity, I
  suppose a vandal could not have a large maturity score by definition.
 
  As for the data, this study has been carried out in 2011, and we worked
  on
  the latest available dump at the time. Someone experienced in academic
  research, especially at this scale well knows that it really takes time
  to
  get the analysis done, write the reports, get them reviewed, etc.
  Especially that we have published 7-8 other papers during the same
  period.
  I see no problem in this as long as the metadata and such information
  about
  the methods and the data under study are mentioned in the manuscript,
  which
  is clearly the case here. I have seen many Wikipedia studies without any
  mention of the dump they have used!
 
Back to your concern for the general impression that the news media
  give
  on wikipedia being a battlefield, I'd like to mention that I have
  emphasised the small number of controversial articles compare to the
  total
  number of articles in every single media response I had. Again 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Uruguay recognized as newest chapter

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from WMHU!

Balázs
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Hungary's strategic planning

[Balázs Viczián]

Awesome will be when you and everyone interested to give their 2 cents
begins to participate in the discussions :)

Balázs


2013/7/3 Sydney sydney.po...@gmail.com

 Awesome approach! Thanks for bringing attention to your community's
 discussion. I'm eager to see the ideas you all collect.

 Sydney Poore
 User:FloNight

 Sent from my iPhone
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Hungary's strategic planning

[Balázs Viczián]

(sorry for cross posting)

Hello everyone,

I'd like to invite you to Wikimedia Hungary's strategic planning discussions on
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Wikim%C3%A9dia_Magyarorsz%C3%A1g/Strat%C3%A9giai_c%C3%A9lok_(mint_szervezet)

Don't get scared of the many Hungarian words, Google translator is
there to help you :)

Feel free to comment, add suggestions or exact goals of your taste or
preference (or your chapter's); this wikipage has been created to
centralize all the discussions and have a pool of suggestions and
ideas for our next general assembly in November 30., We will issue our
own short, mid and long term goals and strategies of growth,
expansion, future focuses and all the other things on that meeting.

ALL suggestions, ideas and comments are welcomed, but of course not
all will be implemented (sorry :) )

You can contribute in your own language if your Hungarian (or English
or German) is not that good.

Cheers,
Balázs

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia in jail!

[Balázs Viczián]

Interesting, strange and scary at the same time.

Unfortunately I don't see much chance with such a program here in Hungary;
at least not in that prison where I did time... 2x10 hours to do a contract
photo job before christmas in 3 consecutive years :)

I bet if you check the stats what pages they've visited, it will be almost
exclusively porn an maybe some prison break stuff :)

Congrats WMCH for such a unique program!

Balazs


2013/6/19 Patricio Lorente patricio.lore...@gmail.com

 Charles, this is an amazing initiative. Thanks for sharing, I think we
 could probably try to do something similar in Argentina.

  Patricio

 2013/6/19 Charles Andrès charles.andres.w...@gmail.com:
  Hello and thanks Bishaka,
 
  We planned two type of post about this story, today or tomorrow we
 should publish a short one about the genesis of the project and the
 relation volunteer/staff.
 
  As president of Wikimedia CH I'm very proud of the work accomplish by
 Emmanuel and Chantal, and we would like to share more about this aspect of
 the project.
 
  The second post will arrive later this year with more information about
 the project itself and its usage.
 
 
  Thanks too, SJ,
 
  unexpected refers more to there eager of the newspaper.
 
  It's really rare, if not totally absent, to read positive things about
 prisons. In this way, the public expect bad news when talking about
 prison, and when a nice story about prison arise, it's unexpected. :-)
 
  Sincerely
 
 
  ___
  I use this email for mailing list only.
 
  Charles ANDRES, Chairman
  Wikimedia CH – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
  www.wikimedia.ch
  Skype: charles.andres.wmch
  IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
 
  Le 18 juin 2013 à 10:52, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.com a
 écrit :
 
  Fantastic - and fascinating.
 
  Would love to see a blog post by someone from the chapter or by one of
  them.
 
  Bravo for reaching out to forgotten people.
 
  Bishakha
 
 
  On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Charles - How beautiful.   Thank you for doing and sharing this.
  In what way was the partnership unexpected?  Did the Bellevue prison
  approach Wikipedians?
 
  Here is the announcement page w/PDF from the WM-CH site:
  https://www.wikimedia.ch/%5Bi18n-termpath-raw%5D/wikipedia-jail
 
  SJ
 
  SJ
 
 
  On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Now THIS is seriously clever!
  Well done WMCH - that is a truly innovative way to provide access to
  knowledge to a community who is often forgotten.
  Can you link to the press release here, please?
 
  -Liam / Wittylama
 
  wittylama.com
  Peace, love  metadata
 
 
  On 17 June 2013 14:15, Charles Andrès charles.andres.w...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  Wikipedia for prisoners – an unexpected partnership between a swiss
  prison
  and Wikimedia CH
 
  Following an initiative from Emmanuel Engelhart, with the support of
  Wikimedia CH CAO, Chantal Ebongué, since March 2013, prisoners who
  request
  can have an access to Wikipedia offline (Kiwix project). The idea is
 to
  stimulate or to support the interest for education of prisoners who
  were,
  for a large majority, condemned to long-time sentences.
 
  After three months of pilot phasis, the project is successful : Among
  the
  36 prisoners of the Bellevue’s prison in Gorgier, 18 possess or rent
 a
  computer. All of them requested the upload of Wikipedia offline on
 their
  PC. For security reasons, swiss prisoners have a very restricted
 access
  to
  internet.
 
  More informations in the press releases (ENG, DE, FR, IT) that was
 sent
  today to the swiss media
 
  Regards,
 
  Charles
 
 
  ___
  Charles ANDRES, Chairman
  Wikimedia CH – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
  www.wikimedia.ch
  Office +41 (0)21 340 66 20
  Skype: charles.andres.wmch
  IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
 
 
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe:
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 
 
 
  --
  Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529
 4266
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Approval of Wikimedians of Nepal user group

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from WMHU too!

Balázs
2013.05.30. 20:58, Salvador A salvador1...@gmail.com ezt írta:

 Congratulations! Welcome to Wikimedia affilliates family. Count with
 Wikimedia Mexico as colaborator and with me as friend.

 Well done!
 El may 30, 2013 1:54 p.m., Dennis Tobar dennis.to...@gmail.com
 escribió:

  Yay!, Congrats to Wikimedians from Nepal!
 
 
  On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Arnau Duran arnaudu...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   Congratulations guys! wish you all the success!
  
  
   *Arnau Duran Ferrero
   *arnaudu...@gmail.com | www.arnauduran.net
   Telèfon personal: (+34) 696475418
   [image: Facebook] http://www.facebook.com/arnauduran [image:
   Twitter]http://www.twitter.com/arnauduran [image:
   LinkedIn] http://www.linkedin.com/in/arnauduran [image: Google
   Plus]https://plus.google.com/111957640098898266818
  
  
   2013/5/30 Nurunnaby Chowdhury n...@nhasive.com
  
Congratulations Nepal team!
   
   
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:37 PM, Ivan Martínez gala...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   
 Welcome to board, friends.
 I know it has not been easy for Ganesh and to the Nepal team.
 Congrats!


 2013/5/30 Tonmoy Khan tonmoy...@gmail.com

  Congratulations to Nepali Wikimedians!!
 
  Ali Haidar Khan (Tonmoy)
  Wikimedia Bangladesh
  On May 30, 2013 11:12 PM, Deryck Chan deryckc...@wikimedia.hk
 
wrote:
 
   Congratulations Ganesh and the Nepal team! Are there plans to
  move
   on
 and
   transition to an incorporated Wikimedia chapter?
   Deryck
  
   On 30 May 2013 17:32, Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  
Dear all,
   
I am happy to inform you that the Affiliations Committee has
approved
  the
recognition of a Wikimedia User Group today:  Wikimedians of
   Nepal.
   
Please join me in welcoming this new group into the fold of
Wikimedia
entities, and let's celebrate their success and hard work as
 Wikipedia
turns eleven in Nepal!
   
== Wikimedians of Nepal ==
   
Wikimedians of Nepal 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Nepal
 
   is a
group of enthusiastic Nepali Wikimedians working towards
   developing
 and
promoting Wikimedia projects in Nepal. They've been actively
working
 to
help expand the community, launch projects in more languages
 of
Nepal
  and
promote and support the existing ones.
   
The group is working towards chapterhood, and have a good
  chance
   of
attaining that status this year. Granting them user group
recognition
allows the movement to express its appreciation for their
 hard
   work
  even
while they are working on the bureaucratic aspects of meeting
  the
requirements of chapterhood. The timing is fortuitous  in
 that
   the
  group
   is
going to mark the 11th anniversary of Wikipedia in a Nepali
language
  on 3
June, next Monday.
   
Ganesh, the group's interim president has been invited to
 this
year's
   Milan
conference, where he gave a comprehensive overview of the
  group's
   history,
its projects (including a successful 'wikiwomen programme)
 and
   its
ambitions. The slides are at:
   
 
   
  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/WMNepal_WMC_2013.pdf
   
The Affiliations Committee's
recognition
   
  
 

   
  
 
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Wikimedians_of_Nepal_-_May_2013
is
valid until 28 May 2014, or until they are recognized as a
   chapter.
   
   
== Wikimedia User Groups ==
   
Wikimedia User Groups are one of the three new types of
affiliations
created last year to empower volunteers wanting to conduct
   offline
 work
   and
provide them recognition from the Wikimedia movement.
   
User group status is meant to be an easy form of affiliation,
   where
 the
main requirements are an agreed goal, plans for offline work,
  at
 least
three people participating and a public wiki page with all
 the
 relevant
information).
   
Under the movement roles
recommendations
   
 
   
  http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_affiliation_models/User_Groups
, user groups are to be recognized in a quick and easy
 process
 directly
   by
the Affiliations Committee, for a fixed, renewable
 time-period
   and
 they
   are
to enjoy limited trademark use and simplified access to
 grants.
   
   
   
Best regards,
Bence Damokos
Chair, Affiliatons Committee
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list

Re: [Wikimedia-l] making tech journalism easier to read

[Balázs Viczián]

uh... tech speak in general is usually like Marsian to me, even if it is in
my own language... might worth to put an effort into translating from geek
to human (like obvious things that are really not so obvious for the
masses) as well if you wish to improve readability :)

Balazs


2013/5/21 Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org

 On 05/20/2013 08:45 PM, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:

 When you're trying to write a blog.wikimedia.org entry or
 wikitech-ambassadors email about a technical topic, but you want to make
 sure nontechnical Wikimedians can read it, is there an automated check
 you can run through?

 For general readability we have 
 http://www.readability-score.**com/http://www.readability-score.com/


 But all those indexes have nothing to do with technical or non-technical
 content or readers. They will tell long sentences with long words are bad,
 short sentences with short words are good - tech aspects aside.

 Americans consume significant quantities of chocolate

 REALLY BAD!

 Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease -39

 Grade Levels
 Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level  20.2
 Gunning-Fog Score   22.4
 Coleman-Liau Index  31.3
 SMOG Index  11.6
 Automated Readability Index 19.3
 Average Grade Level 21.0


 Set up git and fork the master repo

 VERY GOOD!

 Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease 93

 Grade Levels
 Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level  2.3
 Gunning-Fog Score   3.2
 Coleman-Liau Index  4.8
 SMOG Index  1.8
 Automated Readability Index -0.9
 Average Grade Level 2.2



  Aside from general readability, I also want to be careful about using
 jargon, and substitute more accessible terminology where possible. I may
 whip up a script to check whether some text has words from
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Glossaryhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Glossaryand
  the other site glossaries
 in it, unless someone has a better idea.


 The master branch of the git repository is clearly non suitable for the
 beginning of an article, but there is nothing wrong in writing exactly that
 deeper in the text, at the right time and in the right context for the
 right audience.

 Not all readers must/will read all articles entirely. You don't want to
 throw casual readers into complex text, but you don't want to deceive more
 specialist readers with generic words when precise terms exist and that
 audience is familiar with them.

 Good journalism is mostly about a lead paragraph for the masses followed
 by an increasingly dense body text (aka the 5 Ws and the inverted pyramid).
 You can adapt and change these rules at will, as long as you are aware of
 them.

 Paying more editorial attention to the title and the lead will allow more
 room for complex terminology down in the body text. And this applies to
 technical posts just as much as to other posts about other expert fields
 for librarians, translators, lawyers, educators...

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**5_Ws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Ws
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Inverted_pyramidhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pyramid

 --
 Quim Gil
 Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/**User:Qgilhttp://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil


 __**_
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: 
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

[Balázs Viczián]

40k for a single meetup can be justified if the results worth that much
money. (I've already argued about this regarding Milan chapters meetup
btw). Providing a more than basic travel and accomodation can be a way of
appreciation as well for their work, what they do as volunteers, that
should be calculated into the costs.

Ain't these intrenational events' (not just this meetup's, but all events')
success ratio being measured by some way already?

The cost/benefit ratio [1] is a pretty basic (and extreme important) thing
we like to calculate with here in Hungary about all of our activities. For
example the number of articles created divided with the total costs of the
article writing contest they've been created within gives a number we can
work a lot with to improve cost-effectiveness. Seemingly very few chapters
doing anything similar (or not in a visible way)

AffCom already measures itself in some ways in their reports, but regarding
other meetups, I've barely seen at least a basic followup or aftercare and
especially not a detailed overall (measurement) report what is usually /at
least in those commercial events I was involved with/ being published after
about six month of the last day of the event, and gives a detailed summary
of its pros and cons, dos and don'ts, successes and fails, overall impact
(upon proactively collected feedbacks), etc.

There were plenty of international events already this year (Brussels
meeting about EU policies, Milan, London glam, Amsterdam hackathon that are
coming in my mind right now from 2013, and this is just the first 4 month
(only 1/3rd of the year) and not the full list!) most of them with no or
very low visible results yet (ok they need some time to evolve, but
regarding events in 2012, I barely read anything to remember nor any
followups or summares, reports). Compared to the GLAM camp in the US
recently, it seems definitely true. The latter looks like a very good
example of a beneficial meetup, having a lot of potential and it seems
there is a chance that it will be followed up by WMDC and other
participating parties well after the event. Why to have a long term
followup? To give a definite answer wheter those potentials actually
resulted in anything at all (was there any real benefit) or it was just a
very good mooded, fun and positive, but totally fruitless event (wasted
money from the movement's POV)

I see compared to 2012 costs going up without any visible rise in
effectiveness or more worse, a decline in it. This is solely based upon
what I can (or can not) read about them on meta and other places, like the
comments here. Wikimania 2014 was the first event ever where this thing was
taken seriously, but rather on the cost cutting side, than on the
effectiveness improving side

It would be great to see detailed measurements of these events, like how
many new projects or international cooperations (or whatever it aims) were
boosted/inspired by the given thematic meetup up until the next similar
meetup. If that number is X, while the costs were Y, and X/Y does not look
good,  than you can start thinking how can you improve X without expanding
Y (or even lowering it) to get a much friendly ratio, thus creating an even
more fruitful (better quality) event next time. The best would be a
detailed breakdown, like main goals, side goals, unexpected or extra
things that that meeting had inspired/boosted/hosted/etc.

Note, there ain't no such thing as free lunch [2]

Cheers,
Balázs

PS: WMHU has 68k budget for 2013.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit%E2%80%93cost_ratio
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain%27t_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch



2013/5/14 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org

 I don't think it is trivial either, and having a discussion is fine.
 However, the bigger discussion is perhaps more relevant - because AffCom is
 simply following WMF policy here, which is in place for many employees,
 board members (and others? not sure).

 So I think there are two relevant discussions to be had: First of all,
 whether there should be an AffCom meeting at all. Fair question of course.
 (analogous you could wonder if certain chapters should really send a
 representative to Wikimania from their budget, whether certain employees
 really should be there and whether all chapters should be present at the
 Chapters meeting - all fair discussions to be had in their time, too). The
 second relevant question is, in my opinion, whether the WMF travel policy
 is good, proportional etc. This policy has mostly received criticism from
 two sides - some think it is too elaborate, and WMF should get 'less
 luxury' (again fair discussion, but we should then focus on the whole
 question) - another criticism is that it should be equalized for all
 Wikimedia-sponsored trips, including individual engagement grants, trips to
 the chapters meeting etc. When this question was brought up last time, I
 believe it was Sue who mentioned that this would simply result in much 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Effectiveness of meetings (Was: Affcom ...)

[Balázs Viczián]

I see a few misunderstanding here: I do not wish to compare them to each
other, but to the previous one(s). At least I hope this is what I've
written because this is what I was ment. So compare GLAM 2013 to GLAM 2012,
and GLAM 2011, ..., compare Brussels meetup with previous similar thematic
meetups and so forth. Create a breakdown about the costs and the benefits.
Aimed at GLAM? then the main thing to measue how did it boost GLAM
cooperations. Is there any initiative that had been picked up or created
upon the inspiration they got there? If yes, how much? What types? What are
their outcomes? Any other side goals (like international cooperations -
like a new WLM participant who decided to join after discussions there)?
Any other unexpected benefits? (like an out of the blue content donation
from a participating G,L,A or M representative) etc. Easy to identify a
dozen questions, plus if you start thinking it over, you'll find a dozen
more that are as well pretty important, just not that much visible or in
front. Count them and divide the total number with the total costs, and
you'll get how much was invested in a single initiative there.

If an idea was brought home by a chapter from that event (or the local
ideas have been influenced by it), note even if locally it would cost
almost nothing, on an absolute level, there is this cost/benefit ratio,
both the chapter's and the event's, what you have to further divide it
locally amongst the number of projects. If an example helps you, lets say
you brought home 2 article writing contest ideas, both of them conducted
and did cost nothing, except a few merchandise (total of 200USD) your
travel and stay there should be added to the total costs, since without it,
these would likely never been conducted at you. Hence the absolute numbers
would include your flight and stay in London, divided equally in between
the projects that meeting inspired. Got me?

Balázs


2013/5/14 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org

 I think this is very true, and we could perhaps improve our procedures and
 documentation in many ways. However, I do think it is important to realize
 that you're comparing apples with oranges here. The meeting in Brussels for
 example was on the topic of influencing legislative processes - a topic by
 definition long term and hard to measure. The goals there would be better
 (copyright) legislation than without these initiatives - and rather
 strategic. The bootcamp in DC was intended as a boost for volunteers, where
 they would get a lot of information and experience in a short time:
 capacity building. This is also long term, but much better to measure. And
 finally there's the hackathon, which is much more short-term focused (at
 least partially), and will have very concrete results (but probably zero
 measured in new articles created).

 What I think is most important, is that for every meeting we have, we
 identify desired outcomes. These outcomes can be very tangible, or
 intangible - but they should always be defined, and the agenda should be
 built around it.
 Based on these desired outcomes, you can estimate up front if the meeting
 is likely to be 'worth it'. If not, you can reduce the costs, increase the
 outcomes (different setup) or cancel all together.
 Finally, after the meeting a report (private or public - there should
 always be a report or documentation) should be produced and if possible
 published. In that report you should always return to these desired
 outcomes, and see if they were met - and how/why not.

 But even then on the strategy side of things meetings are always hard to
 estimate.

 Of course you're totally right that there are expectations towards
 participants of meetings. Not only because of the money invested, but also
 because of the attention of the other participants. I definitely have been
 in meetings where people literally fell asleep or played games during the
 meeting - and that is simply insulting to the other people in the room. So
 yeah, if that is your mindset, perhaps it is better not to go at all. But
 then I am assuming good faith, and think that everyone will be going to
 meetings with the best of intentions, and not simply to play tourist.

 Lodewijk

 2013/5/14 Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu

  40k for a single meetup can be justified if the results worth that much
  money. (I've already argued about this regarding Milan chapters meetup
  btw). Providing a more than basic travel and accomodation can be a way
 of
  appreciation as well for their work, what they do as volunteers, that
  should be calculated into the costs.
 
  Ain't these intrenational events' (not just this meetup's, but all
 events')
  success ratio being measured by some way already?
 
  The cost/benefit ratio [1] is a pretty basic (and extreme important)
 thing
  we like to calculate with here in Hungary about all of our activities.
 For
  example the number of articles created divided with the total costs of
 the
  article

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Effectiveness of meetings (Was: Affcom ...)

[Balázs Viczián]

Theoratically every penny spent should be measured wheter it was spent
well, or was wasted, including salaries. Ideally you could find out all the
direct and indirect investment in a given program. Since the latter is
extremely hard (or impossible) to measure, it is always an estimated extra
cost.

The emphasis here is not on the programs a meetup may trigger, but the
meetup itself; its effectiveness. (it is a program itself)

Regarding evalulation of programs through a meetup's perspective (if I
understood your words correctly), there is no point going any deeper than
the name of it, the type of it, and a note that it wasdone, in progress
, failed or postponed as of the date of publishing. Details should be
carefully adjusted for all questions you wish to answer.

90% of evaluating an event is actually done through surveys collected from
participants on site (!) and after a given period (somewhere between three
to six month),  by evaluating the answers and feedbacks you collect
_proactively_ (a.k.a. by asking) The rest 10% is an evaluation summary of
the catering, the venue and the executing staff. Six month later a summary
was published and an evaluation meetup was held before we started
organizing the next similar event (what's content was heavily influenced by
that that report).

Cheers,
Balázs


2013/5/14 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org

 I totally understand (or rather, I think I do). However, just like with any
 project, also such calculations would be subject to cost/benefit ratios.
 What information do you expect to win, and how much overhead does it
 create? It sounds great to be able to put a number on things, but up to a
 certain size, things will be mostly intangible anyway (enthusiasm,
 inspiration etc.) so you will have little valuable output of such
 measurements, while the costs are relatively high (they need to learn speak
 your measure language, they need to understand concepts, document
 thoroughly, measure etc.) and for small events that seems unreasonable to
 me to expect it from them - such as with the article writing contests in
 'new' countries.

 However, this is of course different for large international events with
 many participants. Anyway, I am glad to hear you're not trying to compare
 different categories of events with each other.

 Lodewijk


 2013/5/14 Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu

  I see a few misunderstanding here: I do not wish to compare them to each
  other, but to the previous one(s). At least I hope this is what I've
  written because this is what I was ment. So compare GLAM 2013 to GLAM
 2012,
  and GLAM 2011, ..., compare Brussels meetup with previous similar
 thematic
  meetups and so forth. Create a breakdown about the costs and the
 benefits.
  Aimed at GLAM? then the main thing to measue how did it boost GLAM
  cooperations. Is there any initiative that had been picked up or created
  upon the inspiration they got there? If yes, how much? What types? What
 are
  their outcomes? Any other side goals (like international cooperations -
  like a new WLM participant who decided to join after discussions there)?
  Any other unexpected benefits? (like an out of the blue content donation
  from a participating G,L,A or M representative) etc. Easy to identify a
  dozen questions, plus if you start thinking it over, you'll find a dozen
  more that are as well pretty important, just not that much visible or in
  front. Count them and divide the total number with the total costs, and
  you'll get how much was invested in a single initiative there.
 
  If an idea was brought home by a chapter from that event (or the local
  ideas have been influenced by it), note even if locally it would cost
  almost nothing, on an absolute level, there is this cost/benefit ratio,
  both the chapter's and the event's, what you have to further divide it
  locally amongst the number of projects. If an example helps you, lets say
  you brought home 2 article writing contest ideas, both of them conducted
  and did cost nothing, except a few merchandise (total of 200USD) your
  travel and stay there should be added to the total costs, since without
 it,
  these would likely never been conducted at you. Hence the absolute
 numbers
  would include your flight and stay in London, divided equally in between
  the projects that meeting inspired. Got me?
 
  Balázs
 
 
  2013/5/14 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org
 
   I think this is very true, and we could perhaps improve our procedures
  and
   documentation in many ways. However, I do think it is important to
  realize
   that you're comparing apples with oranges here. The meeting in Brussels
  for
   example was on the topic of influencing legislative processes - a topic
  by
   definition long term and hard to measure. The goals there would be
 better
   (copyright) legislation than without these initiatives - and rather
   strategic. The bootcamp in DC was intended as a boost for volunteers,
  where
   they would

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimania, or other events done by a third party?

[Balázs Viczián]

Hello everyone,

Wikimedia Hungary has recieved an interesting sales pitch today if we can
call a two liner that.

One of the largest Hungarian travelling agency's department (or
subsidiary?) for conference tourism have expressed interest in organizing a
Wikimania in Budapest, Hungary in 2015 in cooperation with WMHU. (My
understanding is that WMHU would be a content advisor or similar in it)
They've expressed interest in individual workshops as well (of course).

They've emailed us the bidding page for Wikimania 2015 [1] and the blog
entry about the Program Evaluation Workshop that will be held in June in
Budapest [2] (I guess) to underline their interest (and inadvertently
highlight they're actively monitioring these events)

I believe you already have the questions in your mind about this; here are
my ones:

1) What if a third party applies to create an event? (like a workshop or
Wikimania)

It is not prohibited for a for profit company to create a bid, nor they
have the necessity to consult or cooperate with any of the chapters (though
it is almost certain that they'll get some wikip/medians to help with the
content). There are many workshops and meetups where Wikipedia is being
discussed or being the topic without having any wikim/pedians speaking or
attending, but something like a workshop, or Wikimania would be an
internal event (even if maximum possible outreach is the ultimate goal in
the latter)

1/b) What if their bid is the best overall? Would they be allowed to
execute it (a.k.a. being announced winners)?

note these bids would not be coming from the local communities as they are
coming now, but from outside.

1/c) What if such a bid comes from a country where is no chapter formed yet
(or a non active or too small /or etc./ exists)?

Given the fact that Wikimania is so far the best local outreach tool of the
movement, creating one in a country with small, or struggling (for whatever
reasons) communities/chapters could result in a huge boost of that
community/chapter. (it would be nice to know btw the aftereffects of the
previous Wikimanias on the organizing chapters if it was ever measured)

2) Could it be an option for future bidders to outsource some or (almost)
all parts of the organization/catering/other tasks to a third party
(outside of the movement) keeping only the content management to themselves
?

The (future?) Wikimania Committee is in broader terms an officially not
registered - internal - project company to help creating future Wikimanias
in general.


Feel free to add your questions, while answering mines and others' :)

Cheers,
Balázs

[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids
[2]
http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/05/09/program-evaluation-workshop-budapest/
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The one-employee secretariat model

[Balázs Viczián]

I've discussed this issue in my state of the movement presentation [1]
summing up our experiences so far.

Balazs

[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:State_of_WMHU.pdf


2013.05.02. 0:36, Tomasz Ganicz polime...@gmail.com ezt írta:

 2013/5/1 Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.com:

 
  True. Not all associations are looking for such support and indeed, the
  association needs to show a decent amount of activity to make it worth
it.
 
  Note that in many cases, the secretary hired for such positions is NOT a
  student, but rather an experienced person willing and able to do
  multitasking stuff in an autonomous manner and rather looking for a
  long-term position. This balances the fact the volunteers come and go
and
  that the board term is often for a limited time (2 or 3 terms maximum).
This
  secretary provides an unvaluable element of stability.

 In our case (Wikimedia Polska) we were very careful with hiring. The
 idea appeared around 2009, but there was no money for both having an
 office and paid secretary at that time and it was decided that it
 hardly make sense to have empty office or paid secretary working at
 home. Next year we had enough money for both. Before hiring we had
 made of list of duties and a list of skills needed for doing this
 duties. Our first secretary was hired only for a year contract and for
 part time (3 days a week  4 hours of work in the office + some duties
 outside the office). Our first secretary was mainly working as a
 attorney's assistant and work for us was just her extra job. She left
 us after a year, as demanded by her attorney boss. Then we hired the
 next person - with some modified list of duties and skills needed -
 for 4  days of week, still 4 hours of work in an office). Finally -
 just in the middle of last year we decided to employ the secretary for
 full time. It was decided due to gradual increase of our activity
 which need more paper work.



 --
 Tomek Polimerek Ganicz
 http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
 http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
 http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29title=tomasz-ganicz

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Selection of winning bid for Wikimania 2014: London

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from WMHU and thanks for the mug! :)

Balázs

2013/5/2 Tonmoy Khan tonmoy...@gmail.com

 Congratulations to WMUK  London! Wish all the success for Wikimania 2014.

 Cheers
 Tonmoy
 On May 2, 2013 4:07 AM, Charles Gregory wmau.li...@chuq.net wrote:

  Congratulations WMUK and the London 2014 team!  Thanks also to the Arusha
  bid - hopefully there will be another opportunity in the future!
 
  Regards,
 
  Charles / User:Chuq
 
 
  On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:30 AM, Markus Glaser 
 markus.gla...@wikimedia.de
  wrote:
 
   Congratulations, London and WMUK! Looking foward to a Wikimania in a
 city
   I already lived in ;) And my respect and many thanks to Arusha /
  Tanzania.
   I would have loved to go to Africa this time and I really think the
   Movement should make some efforts to make something like this happen in
  the
   future.
  
   Best, Markus
  
   Am 01.05.2013 22:22, schrieb Patricio Lorente:
  
Congratulations, London! See you there!
  
   Patricio
  
   2013/5/1 Dhaval S. Vyas dsv...@gmail.com:
  
   Congratulations UK! So happy with the news, after all wikimania is
   coming at
   our doorstep...
  
  
   On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Katie Chan 
  katie.c...@wikimedia.org.uk
   wrote:
  
   Congratulations to everyone who's been involved with the London bid.
  
   Looking forward to seeing many of you in London next year!
  
  
   On 1 May 2013 18:10, James Forrester jdforres...@gmail.com wrote:
  
   Dear Wikimedians,
  
   On behalf of the Wikimania 2014 selection Jury, after review and
   evaluation of the two final bids, we have awarded the conference to
   London. Congratulations to the London team, and to the Arusha team
  who
   also put forward a solid effort.
  
   We were concerned this year to see that both bidding teams put
  forward
   proposals which were costly and complicated, in contrast to the
   Wikimania tradition. The Jury briefly considered re-opening the bid
   for other teams, and asked both bids to present a simpler core
 budget
   and lower-cost options for attendees.
  
   The London team took our comments to heart and decreased their core
   budget to 20% of their initial proposal, and have committed to
  finding
   ways to reduce the cost for community attendees.
  
   We encourage future bidding teams to not give up their dreams, to
  keep
   aiming for the stars, but at the same time, to not forget the
 spirit
   of Wikimedia: a volunteer movement that makes creative use of
 limited
   resources. We look forward to the proposed Wikimania Committee
  setting
   out clearer guidelines on these principles.
  
   The process to bid for hosting Wikimania requires a substantial
 time
   investment, and we thank both candidate teams for their submissions
   and hard work.
  
   Yours,
  
   James Forrester
   Moderator, Wikimania 2014 Jury
   For the Wikimania 2014 Jury
   --
   James D. Forrester
   jdforres...@gmail.com
   [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|**James F.]] (speaking purely in a
   personal
   capacity)
  
   __**_
   Wikimedia-l mailing list
   Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 
   Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**
   mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
  
  
  
  
   --
   Katie Chan
   Volunteer Support Organiser
   Wikimedia UK
   +44 (0) 20 7065 0990
   +44 (0) 7885 980 534
  
   Wikimedia UK is a Charitable Company registered in England and
 Wales.
   Registered Company No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
   Registered Office: 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard
 Street,
   London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom.
   Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
   Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
   Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
  
   Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal
  control
   over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
  
  
   __**_
   Wikimania-l mailing list
   Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.**org wikimani...@lists.wikimedia.org
   https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
  
  
   __**_
   Wikimania-l mailing list
   Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.**org wikimani...@lists.wikimedia.org
   https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
  
  
  
  
  
   --
   Markus Glaser
   WCA Council Member (WMDE)
   Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
  
  
  
   __**_
   Wikimedia-l mailing list
   Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
   Unsubscribe:
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
  
  

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The value of Wikipedia for the economy

[Balázs Viczián]

Just measure up the homework-for-hire market, what Wikipedia had almost
ruined; that would be already millions of $ worldwide :)

B.

2013/4/8 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org

 However, those numbers are not exactly what I'm looking for. I do not want
 to know what it would be worth as a company, or how much people are willing
 to pay for it. But how big is the impact? How much positive value does
 Wikipedia add to the world economy? I hope this number is significantly
 higher than what people would be willing to donate (although it would give
 a far low minimum).


 2013/4/8 Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se

  In preparation of the strategic planning a few years ago, we at the Audi
  committee made some calculation to estimate the theoretical potential of
  donation from different perspectives, like what other NGO got.
 
  We then come to the standpoint that the potential was several times that
  of 2009-2010 donations. We have now already doubled that amount, and
  perhaps we are getting closer to the theoretical potential, but this
 gives
  the estimate of a potential donation of something between 50-200 MUSD.
 And
  the benefit must surely be a few times of the potential donations, So a
  rough estimate of benefit based on this reasoning would be in the
 magnitude
  of 100-500 MUSD/year
  Anders
 
 
  Andrew Gray skrev 2013-04-08 14:36:
 
   The Economist had an estimate recently:
 
  http://www.economist.com/news/**finance-and-economics/**
  21573091-how-quantify-gains-**internet-has-brought-**
  consumers-net-benefits
 http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21573091-how-quantify-gains-internet-has-brought-consumers-net-benefits
 
  http://www.economist.com/**blogs/freeexchange/2013/03/**technology-2
 http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/03/technology-2
 
  - of approximately $50m value to readers. It's a pretty vague
  estimate, but it's an interesting start.
 
  Andrew.
 
  On 8 April 2013 13:28, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote:
 
  Hi all,
 
  Last weekend we had a discussion about how to 'sell' the importance of
  Wikipedia to economics-focused people (a.k.a. politicians etc), and the
  question came up on how much Wikipedia contributes to the global
 economy.
  Many people access it daily, and the information they get from that
 might
  help them to run businesses, be more efficient etc. Third world
 countries
  (and maybe even the rest of the world) might have better educated
 people
  thanks to Wikipedia, which might make better and more efficient
 workers,
  higher literacy and cheaper university educations.
 
  Has there been any scientific (or other) research on the effect
 Wikipedia
  has (or had) on the world economy, or even the economy of a specific
  country/region? There are some numbers what Wikipedia would be 'worth'
 if
  it were a commercial company, but that is not what I'm looking for.
 What
  is
  Wikipedia worth to society, the way it currently runs.
 
  Alternatively, are there similar studies to other knowledge
 compendiums,
  or
  even 'the internet'?
 
  Thanks for any pointers!
 
  Lodewijk
  __**_
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe:
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 
 
 
 
 
  __**_
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Gadgets

[Balázs Viczián]

I'd love to see this available to buy as a T-shirt: [1] and these posters
[2] (here, in Hungary we have plans to do both)

btw Wikimedia Hungary had some own merchandise too [3]

[1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_-_T-shirt.jpg
[2] http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bookshelf#Posters
[3] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Hungary_merchandise

cheers,
Balázs
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Wikimedia Armenia

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from Hungary!

cheers,
Balázs

2013/3/27 Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com

 Dear all,

 I am happy to announce that the the WMF Board of Trustees have resolved to
 recognize Wikimedia Armenia as the newest Wikimedia chapter:

 http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Recognition_of_Wikimedia_Armenia

 This group has  already put a lot of effort into promoting Wikipedia and
 the other projects in Armenia on their road to recognition and I am really
 looking forward to hearing of their future endeavours.

 Please give a warm welcome to Wikimedia Armenia!

 Best regards,
 Bence
 (Affiliations Committee)
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hour inside out (program evaluation)

[Balázs Viczián]

Hello everyone,

I've read the log of this conversation; is there any success ratio set
already?

If not, might be good to take the ratio of how many new registrations are
becoming regular contributors. (if 1/100 new registrations, then 1%)

The general online marketing success ratio is somewhere around 1-3%,
depending on the product, the tools used and other circumstances (e.g. if a
random direct marketing campaign return exceeds 0.12% it is already a
success)

cheers,
Balázs


2013/3/21 ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com


  Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:31:57 -0700
  From: Frank Schulenburg frank.schulenb...@gmail.com
  To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Tomorrow: Office hour inside out (program
evaluation)
  Message-ID:

 cakoobqbk6rcui1bthp41mbvjtdzdqvvsjrlgsfywxuuogap...@mail.gmail.com
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 
  Hi folks,
 
  Tomorrow at 17:00 UTC, I will be holding an office hour about program
  evaluation on #wikimedia-office. The target audience for this office
  hour will be chapter representatives and volunteers who are currently
  running (or planning to run) programs and programmatic activities.
  You'll find some background information about why program evaluation
  might be worth talking about in my most recent blog post on the
  Foundation's blog:
 
 
 https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/03/01/lets-start-talking-about-program-evaluation/
 
  As we all know, most office hours follow a certain rule: there's one
  poor staffer who is getting grilled by the people on the IRC channel –
  people ask a variety of questions and the staff person tries to answer
  every question in a limited amount of time. It's a lot of fun (I
  guess, at least for the people who're asking the questions) and it has
  been a good way of direct communication between WMF employees and the
  community.
 
  Now, this office hour will be different. Not that I don't enjoy being
  grilled for one hour :-) I've done IRC office hours several times
  before and I always enjoyed answering questions. The reason for this
  office hour to be different is that I want to _listen to you in the
  first place_. I would like to learn more about
 
  * _your_ thoughts about why evaluation might be important
  * _your_ experiences with making evaluation a part of program design
  * _your_ hopes and fears when it comes to increasingly evaluating
  programs and programmatic activities in the future
  * _your_ ideas and feedback on evaluation practices
 
  Ideally, we would have some people in the room tomorrow who have done
  some kind evaluation in the past or who are planning to embark on
  evaluation work in the near future. With that said – if you have no
  idea about what program evaluation is and you'd like to learn more
  about it, you're invited as well! Or maybe you're just curious to see
  if this office hour inside out is going to play out well ;-)
 
  I'm looking forward to meeting you tomorrow at 17:00 UTC,
 
  Frank
 
 
 

 I'd encourage people who are interested in this subject
 to read up on program management and related subjects.
 This sort of management has been studied extensively in
 academia and in business, and in some ways I feel that
 WMF has catch-up work to do and lacks expertise,
 although I'm hopeful that WMF is trying to improve
 in this area.

 I'd also suggest that people read the report about
 projects that encountered significant problems at
 WMF, particularly the IEP, and a more recent example
 is the mixed reception to AFT5. I hope that program
 managers at WMF learn both good practices and what
 to avoid. I also hope that WMF ties program metrics
 to evaluations for the responsible supervisors when
 considering whether to continue or renew
 employment contracts, as well as when
 considering promotions.

 Cheers,

 Pine

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Hungary expanding

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi everyone,

Wikimedia Hungary had rented its first office (33sqm or 350sq feet, good
for meetings up to 20~25ppl) and hired its first full time (administrative)
employee, so I'm happy to tell you, if you'll ever happen to be in or
around Budapest, feel free to drop by in our
officehttps://maps.google.com/maps?q=1075+Budapest,+Mad%C3%A1ch+Imre+t%C3%A9r+4.hl=enie=UTF8ll=47.497648,19.057084spn=0.004147,0.004823hnear=1075+Budapest,+VII.+ker%C3%BClet,+Mad%C3%A1ch+Imre+t%C3%A9r+4gl=ent=hz=18iwloc=A
 :)

(just don't forget to tell, if you're coming at out of office hours :P)

cheers :)

*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazinhttp://huwiki.blogspot.hu
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Hungary expanding

[Balázs Viczián]

thanks! She's a lady; yep her name is Andrea Tóth :)

Cheers,
Balázs



2013/3/22 Cornelius Kibelka jckibe...@gmail.com

 Nice!, congrats to WMHU!

 Does he have a name, this employee? Is it Andrea Toth? (thx to Google
 Translate).

 Cheers,
 Cornelius

 
 Cornelius Kibelka

 Twitter: @jaancornelius
 Mobile: +49-1520-7226062


 On 22 March 2013 10:29, Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
 wrote:

  Hi everyone,
 
  Wikimedia Hungary had rented its first office (33sqm or 350sq feet, good
  for meetings up to 20~25ppl) and hired its first full time
 (administrative)
  employee, so I'm happy to tell you, if you'll ever happen to be in or
  around Budapest, feel free to drop by in our
  office
 
 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1075+Budapest,+Mad%C3%A1ch+Imre+t%C3%A9r+4.hl=enie=UTF8ll=47.497648,19.057084spn=0.004147,0.004823hnear=1075+Budapest,+VII.+ker%C3%BClet,+Mad%C3%A1ch+Imre+t%C3%A9r+4gl=ent=hz=18iwloc=A
  
   :)
 
  (just don't forget to tell, if you're coming at out of office hours :P)
 
  cheers :)
 
  *Balazs Viczian*
  Executive Vice President
  *Wikimédia Magyarország*
 
  Tel: +36 70 633 6372
  Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
  Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin
  http://huwiki.blogspot.hu
  Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero wins!

[Balázs Viczián]

the favorit social media site in Brazil is Orkut. Far far more popular than
facebook. If you wish to have a strong social media presence there, you'll
have to be present on that.

cheers, Balázs
2013.03.16. 14:17, Everton Zanella Alvarenga t...@wikimedia.org ezt írta:

 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:17 AM, Fabrice Florin fflo...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:

  I'm so happy for everyone -- particularly for all the folks in the
  developing world who are now getting access to free knowledge they
 wouldn't
  otherwise have.

 This news was posted on facebook and a guy from Angola just asked when
 it will be available there for the Portuguese Wikipedia as well


 https://www.facebook.com/wikipediapt/posts/228266030650914?comment_id=947903offset=0total_comments=2

 Kul, maybe it would be more useful for Angola and Mozambique than the
 Banana Republic. :)

 When I do the hangouts with Angolans and Mozambicans (on my spare
 time, sure), [Note] I'll analyse this to have a better insight. ;)

 Tom

 [Note] The statistics of a facebook page (led by volunteers) of the
 Portuguese Wikipedia [1]  has shown some curious numbers because
 people who usually like it are from Luanda and Maputo cities in
 Africa, I've shared this information with some wikipedians [2]
 (obviously further analysis on this data with other methods is
 necessary) and invited experienced editors to participate of google
 hangouts where we are going to invite people from these countries to
 explain about Wikipedia and the Education Program. [3]

 Just to you have an idea, Luanda (population ~5 mi) has about 1.700
 people who liked it, Maputo (pop. ~1.2 mi) 750, followed by São Paulo
 (pop. 11.3 mi) and Rio de Janeiro (6.2 mi) with 230 and 180,
 respectively. Maybe there is some bias on facebook we cannot have
 access to, but it will be really interesting to try to figure out that
 and the videos of these hangout can also be really interesting to try
 to understand how people in these countries use Wikipedia. A mobile
 project in these countries could also be interesting, but not sure if
 we can have it in the short term.

 I'll try to do these hangouts withe them, [3] anyone here is welcome to
 help.

 [1] https://www.facebook.com/wikipediapt

 [2]
 http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Esplanada/geral/Estat%C3%ADsticas_sobre_a_Wikip%C3%A9dia_lus%C3%B3fona_atrav%C3%A9s_do_facebook_e_Programa_de_Educa%C3%A7%C3%A3o_na_%C3%81frica_(22fev2013)

 [3]
 http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Esplanada/propostas/Web_confer%C3%AAncia_sobre_a_Wikip%C3%A9dia_e_o_programa_de_educa%C3%A7%C3%A3o_com_leitores_de_Angola_e_Mo%C3%A7ambique_(22fev2013)

 --
 Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom)
 A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful
 than a life spent doing nothing.

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero wins!

[Balázs Viczián]

Didn't know, the last time I was working for the Brazilian market was in
2011; should update my knowledge :)

Balázs

2013/3/17 James Alexander jameso...@gmail.com

 On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 12:53 AM, Balázs Viczián 
 balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu wrote:

  the favorit social media site in Brazil is Orkut. Far far more popular
 than
  facebook. If you wish to have a strong social media presence there,
 you'll
  have to be present on that.
 
  cheers, Balázs



  Tom or someone else from Brazi would know better then me I'm sure but that
 doesn't seem to have been true since 2011 (

 http://www.forbes.com/sites/ricardogeromel/2011/09/14/facebook-surpasses-orkut-owned-by-google-in-numbers-of-users-in-brazil/
 )
 . Looking at the numbers now (
 http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/BR) looks like FB is the #1 site
 now (of course, it IS Alexa ;) ).

 James
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi Jan,

Typically this is what pre conference events are for and quite frankly I
see more possibilities in it if this would be implemented into the Milan
event both in the schedule and as a thematic pre conference meeting (as the
educational leaders are doing it).

cheers,
Balázs

2013/3/6 Jan Engelmann jan.engelm...@wikimedia.de

 Hi Balázs,

 of course I am aware of the chapter conference. But first, there will be no
 volunteers. Second, there won't be enough time. Third, we want to integrate
 a short input from a Brussels-based NGO to learn something about things
 really work. And apart from that, we searched for a very really central
 city in Europe, which is in fact - Brussels.

 Best, Jan

 2013/3/6 Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu

  Errr...the chapters conference in Milan will be two weeks later, why
 don't
  you integrate this into the schedule of that instead?
 
  Balazs
 
  2013/3/6 Jan Engelmann jan.engelm...@wikimedia.de
 
   Hi all,
  
   a clear majority voted for the 6th/7th of april as the most suitable
   date for the meeting. We are happy to make the arrangements! During
   the next days, we will provide you with all necessary information
   about the location in Brussels and the scheduling. We will also pass
   around a draft agenda on Meta to make sure that everybody can add
   certain points of interest or comments in advance.
  
   Please spread the Doodle-link just to make sure that even more people
   who are interested in the EU policy stuff will follow:
  
   http://doodle.com/ntiz6gup7z49e7p5
  
   Best wishes,
  
   Jan
  
   --
   Jan Engelmann
   Leiter Politik  Gesellschaft
   -
   Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
   Obentrautstr. 72
   10963 Berlin
  
   Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
   www.wikimedia.de
  
   Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
   Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
   http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
  
    Helfen Sie mit, dass WIKIPEDIA von der UNESCO als erstes
   digitales Weltkulturerbe anerkannt wird. Unterzeichnen Sie die
   Online-Petition! http://wikipedia.de 
  
   Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
   Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
   unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
   Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
  
   ___
   Wikimedia-l mailing list
   Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
   Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
  
 
 
 
  --
  *Balazs Viczian*
  Executive Vice President
  *Wikimédia Magyarország*
 
  Tel: +36 70 633 6372
  Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
  Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin
  http://huwiki.blogspot.hu
  Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 



 --
 Jan Engelmann
 Leiter Politik  Gesellschaft
 -
 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
 Obentrautstr. 72
 10963 Berlin

 Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
 www.wikimedia.de

 Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
 Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
 http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

  Helfen Sie mit, dass WIKIPEDIA von der UNESCO als erstes digitales
 Weltkulturerbe anerkannt wird. Unterzeichnen Sie die Online-Petition!
 http://wikipedia.de 

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
 der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
 Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

Such a meeting can be done over lunchtime any day or after the conference
(which I guess would finish somewhere around lunch on Sunday so it can be
on a weekend) or paralell to the schedule; there are plenty of options if
you're interested in a solution.

Cheers,
Balázs

2013/3/7 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org

 Hi Balázs,

 There seems to be only limited overlap in the interested attendees. Also,
 preconference would overlap with some other pre conferencees which at least
 for me would be bad. Also, there's only one day of pre conference
 (Thursday) which makes it too short and in the middle of the week (there's
 a clear preference for weekends).

 All in all, I support the decision to do it in a seperate weekend in
 Brussels.

 However, what is unclear to me (question to the organizers) is whether any
 travel support etc would be available, or that it should be requested
 through the local chapter. Also, can we already sign up somewhere?

 Best,
 Lodewijk
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

I really don't get you, you wish to facilitate something that will affect
about 20 chapters directly in the future (those situated within the EU) and
you don't think it would overlap the Milan event? And no real need to talk
about it there?

Balazs

2013/3/7 Christophe Henner christophe.hen...@gmail.com

 I agree with my dutch friend :)

 People going to the Wikimedia Conference are not especially overlapping
 with this one. Plus taking one day or two off is quite easy. Add a side
 meeting you need to take a week off.

 Lastly, having it 2 weeks before let's us formalize the report of the
 meeting and let's have us good material to talk about it, if needs be, in
 Milan.

 Christophe
 Envoye depuis mon Blackberry

 -Original Message-
 From: Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org
 Sender: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 16:42:32
 To: Wikimedia Mailing Listwikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

 Hi Balázs,

 There seems to be only limited overlap in the interested attendees. Also,
 preconference would overlap with some other pre conferencees which at least
 for me would be bad. Also, there's only one day of pre conference
 (Thursday) which makes it too short and in the middle of the week (there's
 a clear preference for weekends).

 All in all, I support the decision to do it in a seperate weekend in
 Brussels.

 However, what is unclear to me (question to the organizers) is whether any
 travel support etc would be available, or that it should be requested
 through the local chapter. Also, can we already sign up somewhere?

 Best,
 Lodewijk

 2013/3/7 Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu

  Hi Jan,
 
  Typically this is what pre conference events are for and quite frankly I
  see more possibilities in it if this would be implemented into the Milan
  event both in the schedule and as a thematic pre conference meeting (as
 the
  educational leaders are doing it).
 
  cheers,
  Balázs
 
  2013/3/6 Jan Engelmann jan.engelm...@wikimedia.de
 
   Hi Balázs,
  
   of course I am aware of the chapter conference. But first, there will
 be
  no
   volunteers. Second, there won't be enough time. Third, we want to
  integrate
   a short input from a Brussels-based NGO to learn something about
 things
   really work. And apart from that, we searched for a very really
 central
   city in Europe, which is in fact - Brussels.
  
   Best, Jan
  
   2013/3/6 Balázs Viczián balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
  
Errr...the chapters conference in Milan will be two weeks later, why
   don't
you integrate this into the schedule of that instead?
   
Balazs
   
2013/3/6 Jan Engelmann jan.engelm...@wikimedia.de
   
 Hi all,

 a clear majority voted for the 6th/7th of april as the most
 suitable
 date for the meeting. We are happy to make the arrangements! During
 the next days, we will provide you with all necessary information
 about the location in Brussels and the scheduling. We will also
 pass
 around a draft agenda on Meta to make sure that everybody can add
 certain points of interest or comments in advance.

 Please spread the Doodle-link just to make sure that even more
 people
 who are interested in the EU policy stuff will follow:

 http://doodle.com/ntiz6gup7z49e7p5

 Best wishes,

 Jan

 --
 Jan Engelmann
 Leiter Politik  Gesellschaft
 -
 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
 Obentrautstr. 72
 10963 Berlin

 Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
 www.wikimedia.de

 Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge
  allen
 Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
 http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

  Helfen Sie mit, dass WIKIPEDIA von der UNESCO als erstes
 digitales Weltkulturerbe anerkannt wird. Unterzeichnen Sie die
 Online-Petition! http://wikipedia.de 

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens
 e.
  V.
 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
 Berlin-Charlottenburg
 unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
 Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe:
  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

   
   
   
--
*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország*
   
Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin
http://huwiki.blogspot.hu
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

Errr...the chapters conference in Milan will be two weeks later, why don't
you integrate this into the schedule of that instead?

Balazs

2013/3/6 Jan Engelmann jan.engelm...@wikimedia.de

 Hi all,

 a clear majority voted for the 6th/7th of april as the most suitable
 date for the meeting. We are happy to make the arrangements! During
 the next days, we will provide you with all necessary information
 about the location in Brussels and the scheduling. We will also pass
 around a draft agenda on Meta to make sure that everybody can add
 certain points of interest or comments in advance.

 Please spread the Doodle-link just to make sure that even more people
 who are interested in the EU policy stuff will follow:

 http://doodle.com/ntiz6gup7z49e7p5

 Best wishes,

 Jan

 --
 Jan Engelmann
 Leiter Politik  Gesellschaft
 -
 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
 Obentrautstr. 72
 10963 Berlin

 Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
 www.wikimedia.de

 Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
 Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
 http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

  Helfen Sie mit, dass WIKIPEDIA von der UNESCO als erstes
 digitales Weltkulturerbe anerkannt wird. Unterzeichnen Sie die
 Online-Petition! http://wikipedia.de 

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
 unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
 Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l




-- 
*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazinhttp://huwiki.blogspot.hu
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are chapters part of the community and board seats for affiliates?

[Balázs Viczián]

I believe chapters are tools for the local communities to achieve certain
goals that otherwise would be very difficult or (almost) impossible, and a
great aid in local community building.

Balazs
2013.02.22. 19:41, phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com ezt írta:

 On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:41 AM, Christophe Henner 
 christophe.hen...@gmail.com wrote:

 
  Hmmm I might be mistaken but WMF board members, selected or not by
  chapters, haven't access to chapter-l. But I might be mistaken on that.
 
  --
  Christophe
 


 Correct; I didn't have access to chapters-l before, during or after being
 selected (or after leaving the board). I have no idea what people said
 about me, which is totally fine. What *wasn't* fine, in my opinion, is that
 lots of other non-chapter people were surprised when the chapter-selected
 seat results were announced in 2010, because it wasn't very clear that a
 process was even going on. As Bence said, this improved a lot in 2012, so
 that's great.

 -- Phoebe, who is also a little biased about being part of the community
 :P


 --
 * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers at
 gmail.com *
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

I believe this will be the task of the future Belgian chapter what is - if
I'm correct - just forming. No need to have two chapters there.

Balazs

2013/2/20 Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov dimitar.parvanov.dimit...@gmail.com

 Hi all,

 I guess the non-partisan part is not even a quesiton, but rather a
 precondition. The question is how to balance it on a case-to-case basis.
 For now I have just included the wording *commitment to* *political
 neutrality except regarding the most serious things that directly impact
 our work. *in the Meta project pages. I believe that phrasing is a good
 starting point for our discussions.

 On the monitoring side the justification is easier. Collecting, publishing
 and summarising legislative proposals/ammendments/reports/positions is
 nothing that is not in line with gathering the sum of all human
 knowledge.

 Dimi
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l




-- 
*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazinhttp://huwiki.blogspot.hu
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

if there ever will be a WCA or something like that, then this will be a
task for them imo. For the time being, mapping could be done by the
future Belgian chapter or by some interested local volunteers.

Balazs

2013/2/20 Jan Engelmann jan.engelm...@wikimedia.de

 Hi Balázs,

 I believe this will be the task of the future Belgian chapter what is - if
  I'm correct - just forming. No need to have two chapters there.
 

 We're not talking about an overlapping or even overstretch of chapters.
 The territorial perspective is not very productive if you search for new
 synergy effects inside a global movement. What we have in mind, is rather
 something preliminary to the stage of institutionalization. And we'd like
 to discuss this basic idea exactly with those people already engaged in the
 Brussels business. I think this is a very pragmatic and (hopefully)
 sustainable approach.

 Best, Jan


 
  Balazs
 
  2013/2/20 Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov dimitar.parvanov.dimit...@gmail.com
 
 
   Hi all,
  
   I guess the non-partisan part is not even a quesiton, but rather a
   precondition. The question is how to balance it on a case-to-case
 basis.
   For now I have just included the wording *commitment to* *political
   neutrality except regarding the most serious things that directly
 impact
   our work. *in the Meta project pages. I believe that phrasing is a
 good
   starting point for our discussions.
  
   On the monitoring side the justification is easier. Collecting,
  publishing
   and summarising legislative proposals/ammendments/reports/positions is
   nothing that is not in line with gathering the sum of all human
   knowledge.
  
   Dimi
   ___
   Wikimedia-l mailing list
   Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
   Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
  
 
 
 
  --
  *Balazs Viczian*
  Executive Vice President
  *Wikimédia Magyarország*
 
  Tel: +36 70 633 6372
  Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
  Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin
  http://huwiki.blogspot.hu
  Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 



 --
 Jan Engelmann
 Leiter Politik  Gesellschaft
 -
 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
 Obentrautstr. 72
 10963 Berlin

 Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
 www.wikimedia.de

 Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
 Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
 http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

  Helfen Sie mit, dass WIKIPEDIA von der UNESCO als erstes digitales
 Weltkulturerbe anerkannt wird. Unterzeichnen Sie die Online-Petition!
 http://wikipedia.de 

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
 der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
 Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l




-- 
*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazinhttp://huwiki.blogspot.hu
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

I've replied on two things: regarding info collecting, that you were
discussing, I believe WMBE can handle it (collecting names and numbers), no
need for a chapter to the EU there imo. Regarding actual lobbying,
representation and stuff - an international cooperation, like WCA (but not
in its current state) should do the job.

Balazs


2013/2/20 Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov dimitar.parvanov.dimit...@gmail.com

 Hi again,

 if there ever will be a WCA or something like that, then this will be a
  task for them imo. For the time being, mapping could be done by the
  future Belgian chapter or by some interested local volunteers.
 

 I strongly disagree. As a local volunteer doing monitoring and as someone
 who is currently very actively involved in the founding of Wikimedia
 Belgium.

 There are two reasons for that:

 1. We're not talking about Belgian legislation or the Belgian
 government/parliament here. We're talking about the EU institutions. And if
 you want them to listen to you, you need to represent an European
 community. Otherwise the French will talk to the French government, the
 Germans to the German and the Bulgarians to the Bulgarian. This is by far
 not the best way to proceed and is why this initiative is very necessary.

 2. Even if we'd decide that WMBE should lead this initiative (and that is
 in fact a discussed option), in Belgium we're at best at least a year away
 from having that kind of infrastructure. We're still to subit our statutes
 to the AffCom. At the same time I just had it confirmed from a Commissoin
 employee tonight that they plan to table the new copyright legislation
 proposal at the beginning of next year the latest.

 As a local volunteer who is doing monitoring my opinion is that there is
 dire need an international group of wikimedians to rely on support. I
 oftentimes feel overwhealmed.

 Cheers,
 Dimi
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l




-- 
*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazinhttp://huwiki.blogspot.hu
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Looking back at the London Conference

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

sorry, no offense meant, but all of you are keep saying the same things
again and again. At least a dozen times I've read lines, like don't focus
on this, focus on that or let me say WCA recruiting athough you dropped
that idea about two weeks ago (really?)

I'd like to help you with focusing: It wouls be lovely to see those
things mentioned above explained as detailed as possible what is much
more than that list of ideas (tasks) you may think of right now linking
here.

sorry, just got a little bit annoyed reading the very same discussion for
at least the fifth or sixths time and it is still not differing from the
previous ones.

uff

Vince
2013.02.19. 23:14, Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl ezt írta:

 Hello,
 Just to keep in mind: it has been no secret, from the beginning, that the
 WCA planned to hire somebody. The WMF board is supported by employees too,
 and I guess that the WMF has a number of regulations. Enough room for views
 to evolve.
 But it sounds good to focus on getting things started instead of focusing
 on process, structure etc. - I will remember that when the WMF asks again
 report after report from the chapters' volunteers...
 Ziko




 2013/2/19 Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org:
  Hey
 
  So just to add my perspective on the mail below (as one of the two board
 members that were present).
 
  As mentioned before the board has several big issues with the WCA where
 it was going (as outlined on the meta discussion page and our statement:

 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Chapters_Association#WMF_Board_letter_regarding_the_Chapters_Association
 )
 
  We felt that our statement was needed at the time, and some good debate
 has taken place. If we were inconsistent in our behaviour (in the eyes of
 Ziko) this was simply because things increasingly seemed to be going the
 wrong way and views evolve over time.
 
  The discussion we had was a very useful one, and you can read a pretty
 accurate transcript at: http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/WCA/ (and I see that
 minutes are being worked on as I type this, so a formal report is likely to
 be announced here soon I guess)
 
  The main focus that I tried to bring across is that the people working on
 the Chapter Association stop focusing on process, structure, incorporation,
 hiring and strategy but rather focus on getting things started and trying
 to develop things that work and can grow. Rather than focus on membership
 and voting, focus on getting an exchange of knowledge, experience and
 skills between all the chapters (members or not).
 
  And though it might not come across right now without seeing the results,
  I feel that the weekend was very useful. There was a lot of energy in the
 room and a willingness to re-assess where the CA is, and where it needs to
 go (thank you for that everyone, and thank you to Fae for helping create
 this open environment). Public discussion on meta, along with open exchange
 and notes are a good start, and I am sure that a lot of things will be
 happening the next months. Hopefully this will grow into the potential that
 chapter cooperation has always had.
 
  Jan-Bart de Vreede
  Wikimedia Board of Trustees
 
 
  On Feb 19, 2013, at 5:10 PM, Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl
 wrote:
 
  Dear Council Members and everyone interested in the WCA,
 
  On 16/17th February 2013 a number of Council Members visited the
  London Conference I had proposed in mid January to talk about the way
  of the WCA and to prepare the Wikimedia Conference in Milan. We are
  happy that the London Conference did happen, and, in spite of the
  debatable WMF board statement of 5th February, that two WMF board
  members still agreed to join us.
 
  Because in 2012/2013 the signals from the WMF were not very consistent
  I tried to receive more clarity about the relationship between
  Foundation and Association. This was only partially successful, but I
  understand that the two present WMF board members were as open as it
  was possible within the constraints of the WMF board unity. We very
  much appreciated the commitment of Alice and Jan-Bart and were happy
  not to hear certain allegations from the board statement again.
 
  The London Conference discussed many WCA subjects collected during the
  last months. One of them was communication, and I am content that I
  could convince the participants of a major change. For someone who is
  interested in the WCA it has been very difficult to follow the
  proceedings, plans and results. When e.g. a Council Member wanted to
  talk to others or discuss something, he or she used one of the several
  mailing lists the movement has, or Meta Wiki, or private email
  addresses. I believe that this has been a fundamental problem with the
  regard to the perception of the WCA, and that the participation even
  from Council Members suffered also because of this kind of
  communication.
 
  After the election of a new Chair, the Chair of the WCA Council will
  

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New members for the Affiliations Committee

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats to all!

Just one small thing: you put 2012 in the header of the meta page, but it's
2013 for some time now :)

Balazs


2013/2/13 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org

 Dear all,

 As you may have noticed, in December there was a call for new members for
 the affiliations committee. The affiliations committee is entrusted to
 advise the Board of Trustees on matters of recognition of new movement
 affiliates, such as Chapters, Thematic Organizations and User Groups.

 I am happy to be able to say that this call resulted in 18 applications!
 After a thorough discussion, the Committee members that were not part of
 this selection procedure have passed a resolution, appointing 7 of these
 applicants as member of the committee.[1]

 Therefore, I'm proud to announce that the following people have been
 appointed as member of the Affiliations Committee until 31 December 2014:

- Jeromy-Yu Chan (re-appointment)
- Carlos Colina
- Bence Damokos (re-appointment)
- Josh Lim
- Salvador Alcántar Morán
- Tanvir Rahman
- Greg Varnum


 Congratulations to the new appointees! You can find a full overview of the
 members on [2].

 I would like to take this opportunity to thank the outgoing members who
 spent valuable time in the past years on the affiliations committee:
 Sebastian Moleski, Ray Saintonge and Damian Finol. Sebastian and Ray have
 served the committee since 2010, and Damian was the longest serving member,
 being appointed in 2007! Thanks a lot for your time and effort in the past
 years.

 I look forward to an exciting time, with many applicants in the pipeline to
 be (hopefully) approved!

 Best regards,

 Lodewijk Gelauff
 selection coordinator
 member of the Affiliations Committee

 [1]:

 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Membership_%E2%80%93_February_2012
 [2]: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l




-- 
*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazinhttp://huwiki.blogspot.hu
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l