[WISPA] Throttle
Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it. I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router. This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe. This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP. In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network. YMMV sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Though it looks black in the picture, normally it is bare copper or bare tinned copper. It touches the shield all along the cable and is used to drain the electrons to ground. You have to strip the jacket back a little farther than non-shielded cable to have some drain wire to work with. You don't have to use shielded connectors, though that is an easy way. I often get a ground bar designed for a circuit breaker box and ground everything there, so I strip back several inches of jacket and run the drain wire to the ground block. This gives me a single point for all ground and does not drain induced charges through the board. Josh Luthman wrote: *Face plant* Never heard of those before... I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire? It doesn't drain water, but is conductive - is this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors. Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100' long lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board. Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good grounded POE injector == no problems for many years On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: You lost me - drain wire? Soldered onto a plastic rj45? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector after we crimp it on. Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few weeks ago. On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem. We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL installs-customer installs as well. And the good grounded PacWireless POE injectors. With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning related service call. We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of truck rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Every 133 I used had a problem. Be it software, hardware, DOA, lightning, whatever. Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced, necessarily, by a newer board. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Nothing that I have seen. Sure they were not repackaged by your vendor? And/or like I suggested overclocked. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box lately? We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an interface we could use. We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few hours. We updated the firmware but with no positive result. My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the radio that went
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
There are clamps designed specifically for cable with no drain wire. But I can't find the ones I used for BDDN cable right now. Josh Luthman wrote: So the superior essex cabling with no drain wire is no good? On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: The shield does just that - shield, i.e. from interference. The drain wire does just that - drains errant static buildup, etc. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Mmm so the recommended cable for PTP600, the superior essex bbdge or something, doesn't have this wire but is shielded. What's the purpose of the drain wire if the shielding and connectors are what's grounding? On 8/3/09, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yes, but in most shielded cable we get, the drain wire is just a bare, silver wire inside the cover like that one. If you aren't grounding that, you aren't really doing anything but wasting money on cable... :( Travis Josh Luthman wrote: *Face plant* Never heard of those before... I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire? It doesn't drain water, but is conductive - is this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors. Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100' long lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board. Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good grounded POE injector == no problems for many years On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: You lost me - drain wire? Soldered onto a plastic rj45? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector after we crimp it on. Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few weeks ago. On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem. We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL installs-customer installs as well. And the good grounded PacWireless POE injectors. With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning related service call. We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of truck rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Every 133 I used had a problem. Be it software, hardware, DOA, lightning, whatever. Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced, necessarily, by a newer board. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Nothing that I have seen. Sure they were not repackaged by your vendor? And/or like I suggested overclocked. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Is anybody having problems
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
We throttle at the CPE where we have the ability. Our reasoning is that the less traffic there is hitting the AP, the more users we can put on it, and the better experience everyone has. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of sa...@michianawireless.com Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Throttle Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting. How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router? Greg On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote: For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it. I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router. This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe. This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP. In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network. YMMV sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Got news for ya, STP does not fix the problem - the problem is with the board as they continuously have issues when everything else - even on the same pole - doesn't. And I am in FL and I assure you your level of pain with lightning isn't close :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem. We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL installs-customer installs as well. And the good grounded PacWireless POE injectors. With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning related service call. We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of truck rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Every 133 I used had a problem. Be it software, hardware, DOA, lightning, whatever. Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced, necessarily, by a newer board. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Nothing that I have seen. Sure they were not repackaged by your vendor? And/or like I suggested overclocked. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box lately? We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an interface we could use. We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few hours. We updated the firmware but with no positive result. My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and wearing on my staff. We're going back right now to reinstall the old 133 board. Any others having these problems? Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
If you are using plastic RJ45 with STP then you are wasting your time and money. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:37 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik You lost me - drain wire? Soldered onto a plastic rj45? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector after we crimp it on. Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few weeks ago. On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem. We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL installs-customer installs as well. And the good grounded PacWireless POE injectors. With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning related service call. We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of truck rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Every 133 I used had a problem. Be it software, hardware, DOA, lightning, whatever. Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced, necessarily, by a newer board. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Nothing that I have seen. Sure they were not repackaged by your vendor? And/or like I suggested overclocked. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box lately? We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an interface we could use. We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few hours. We updated the firmware but with no positive result. My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and wearing on my staff. We're going back right now to reinstall the old 133 board. Any others having these problems? Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
While we are on the STP topic... It's been noted several times that you are only supposed to ground ONE end of the STP shield otherwise you are creating for yourself a ground potential difference. The idea behind the shield is just that - shield noise away shunted to ground. On a typical install lets cal this the radio side use plastic connector and inside use grounded one with tall the other lightning goodies. What is the consensus on this while we are on topic :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea, we solder and heat shrink the ends on all our tower gear. Less problems, but still doesn't stop direct strikes, lol. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea... I don't think it's black, just how the picture was taken. It's usually a silver or gold wire, seperate from the others and not insulated. Sometimes it's stranded as opposed to being solid. You don't necessarily have to solder it - but make sure it's got a good electrical connection to the shielded RJ45 connector. And that the shield of the RJ45 connector has a good electrical connection to the boards plug. And the antenna to the board. And the RJ45 to the POE, and POE to ground. You get the idea. Like I said, we have thousands of these in service in Colorado--all that use shielded cable have no problems at all. Those that don't are guaranteed problems sooner or later. Our Costa Rica operation doesn't use shielded cable (supposedly it's too costly to import), so everytime there's a storm dozens of boards are thrown away. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: *Face plant* Never heard of those before... I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire? It doesn't drain water, but is conductive - is this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors. Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100' long lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board. Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good grounded POE injector == no problems for many years On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: You lost me - drain wire? Soldered onto a plastic rj45? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector after we crimp it on. Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few weeks ago. On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem. We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL installs-customer installs as well. And the good grounded PacWireless POE injectors. With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning related service call. We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of truck rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Every 133 I used had a problem. Be it software, hardware, DOA, lightning, whatever. Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced, necessarily, by a newer board. Josh Luthman
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
I think this is the kind of connector I'm looking for - finally found some pictures: http://www.vpi.us/installation/assemble-cat6shld.html How does one take the large outside shielding and leave the shielding/inner jacket intact? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: While we are on the STP topic... It's been noted several times that you are only supposed to ground ONE end of the STP shield otherwise you are creating for yourself a ground potential difference. The idea behind the shield is just that - shield noise away shunted to ground. On a typical install lets cal this the radio side use plastic connector and inside use grounded one with tall the other lightning goodies. What is the consensus on this while we are on topic :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea, we solder and heat shrink the ends on all our tower gear. Less problems, but still doesn't stop direct strikes, lol. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea... I don't think it's black, just how the picture was taken. It's usually a silver or gold wire, seperate from the others and not insulated. Sometimes it's stranded as opposed to being solid. You don't necessarily have to solder it - but make sure it's got a good electrical connection to the shielded RJ45 connector. And that the shield of the RJ45 connector has a good electrical connection to the boards plug. And the antenna to the board. And the RJ45 to the POE, and POE to ground. You get the idea. Like I said, we have thousands of these in service in Colorado--all that use shielded cable have no problems at all. Those that don't are guaranteed problems sooner or later. Our Costa Rica operation doesn't use shielded cable (supposedly it's too costly to import), so everytime there's a storm dozens of boards are thrown away. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: *Face plant* Never heard of those before... I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire? It doesn't drain water, but is conductive - is this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors. Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100' long lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board. Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good grounded POE injector == no problems for many years On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: You lost me - drain wire? Soldered onto a plastic rj45? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector after we crimp it on. Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few weeks ago. On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem. We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL installs-customer
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
A 532 and a rb411 do not react the same to lightning You could have them 2 inches a part and the rb411 gets eth port whacked every time while the RB532 - and anything else in your inventory keeps on ticking. It is a board weakness even though I don't have the understanding of electronics you guys do. I can't fix em but I can tell you the difference after a bolt of lightning :) (no matter how its installed - grounded etc) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:45 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Same here, installation is key! We have 532s up for at least 4 years on one tower. Its 300 foot from a AM 1000watt hotstick. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:31 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik It's a alu shield on it solder it to the connector or strip of some of the plastic and put a nice clamp with a ground wire to electrical ground. On one tower install that is what we did used coax 400 size ground kits. Shielded connectors as well. Not lost a single Ethernet port there for h 5 years. Kansas is up there in statistics of lightning strikes each year but nothing like Florida. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik So the superior essex cabling with no drain wire is no good? On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: The shield does just that - shield, i.e. from interference. The drain wire does just that - drains errant static buildup, etc. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Mmm so the recommended cable for PTP600, the superior essex bbdge or something, doesn't have this wire but is shielded. What's the purpose of the drain wire if the shielding and connectors are what's grounding? On 8/3/09, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yes, but in most shielded cable we get, the drain wire is just a bare, silver wire inside the cover like that one. If you aren't grounding that, you aren't really doing anything but wasting money on cable... :( Travis Josh Luthman wrote: *Face plant* Never heard of those before... I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire? It doesn't drain water, but is conductive - is this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors. Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100' long lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board. Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good grounded POE injector == no problems for many years On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: You lost me - drain wire? Soldered onto a plastic rj45? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector after we crimp it on. Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few weeks ago. On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem. We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL installs-customer installs as well. And the good grounded PacWireless POE injectors. With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning related
Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
Here you go. I have been using these Universal Batteries for a few years now and have not had any problems so far. http://www.factoriesonline.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=1899684categoryid=0 I have also purchased from that vendor before and not had a problem. Call them for a freight quote. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com jp wrote: On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 05:58:11PM -0400, Patrick Shoemaker wrote: I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site: $1500 including shipping. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Mind sharing where to get AGM batts like that for that price? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Ok, then we have 433Ahs up on a 1400 foot tower that gets struck, though they are mounted at 500 foot, and have not had an issue. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 8:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik A 532 and a rb411 do not react the same to lightning You could have them 2 inches a part and the rb411 gets eth port whacked every time while the RB532 - and anything else in your inventory keeps on ticking. It is a board weakness even though I don't have the understanding of electronics you guys do. I can't fix em but I can tell you the difference after a bolt of lightning :) (no matter how its installed - grounded etc) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:45 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Same here, installation is key! We have 532s up for at least 4 years on one tower. Its 300 foot from a AM 1000watt hotstick. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:31 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik It's a alu shield on it solder it to the connector or strip of some of the plastic and put a nice clamp with a ground wire to electrical ground. On one tower install that is what we did used coax 400 size ground kits. Shielded connectors as well. Not lost a single Ethernet port there for h 5 years. Kansas is up there in statistics of lightning strikes each year but nothing like Florida. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik So the superior essex cabling with no drain wire is no good? On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: The shield does just that - shield, i.e. from interference. The drain wire does just that - drains errant static buildup, etc. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Mmm so the recommended cable for PTP600, the superior essex bbdge or something, doesn't have this wire but is shielded. What's the purpose of the drain wire if the shielding and connectors are what's grounding? On 8/3/09, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Yes, but in most shielded cable we get, the drain wire is just a bare, silver wire inside the cover like that one. If you aren't grounding that, you aren't really doing anything but wasting money on cable... :( Travis Josh Luthman wrote: *Face plant* Never heard of those before... I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire? It doesn't drain water, but is conductive - is this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors. Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100' long lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board. Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good grounded POE injector == no problems for many years On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: You lost me - drain wire? Soldered onto a plastic rj45? Josh Luthman Office:
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
If you don't ground both ends you're creating a huge antenna to pick up static and drain it right into your board/POE. Always use shielded connectors on both ends, and ground both ends. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: While we are on the STP topic... It's been noted several times that you are only supposed to ground ONE end of the STP shield otherwise you are creating for yourself a ground potential difference. The idea behind the shield is just that - shield noise away shunted to ground. On a typical install lets cal this the radio side use plastic connector and inside use grounded one with tall the other lightning goodies. What is the consensus on this while we are on topic :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea, we solder and heat shrink the ends on all our tower gear. Less problems, but still doesn't stop direct strikes, lol. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea... I don't think it's black, just how the picture was taken. It's usually a silver or gold wire, seperate from the others and not insulated. Sometimes it's stranded as opposed to being solid. You don't necessarily have to solder it - but make sure it's got a good electrical connection to the shielded RJ45 connector. And that the shield of the RJ45 connector has a good electrical connection to the boards plug. And the antenna to the board. And the RJ45 to the POE, and POE to ground. You get the idea. Like I said, we have thousands of these in service in Colorado--all that use shielded cable have no problems at all. Those that don't are guaranteed problems sooner or later. Our Costa Rica operation doesn't use shielded cable (supposedly it's too costly to import), so everytime there's a storm dozens of boards are thrown away. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: *Face plant* Never heard of those before... I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire? It doesn't drain water, but is conductive - is this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors. Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100' long lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board. Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good grounded POE injector == no problems for many years On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: You lost me - drain wire? Soldered onto a plastic rj45? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector after we crimp it on. Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few weeks ago. On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem. We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL installs-customer installs as well. And the good grounded PacWireless POE injectors. With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning related service call. We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
It did for us, but we always ensure a good electrical ground from end to end. Maybe you're not soldering the drain wire to the connector, the connector isn't making a good connection to the plug, etc. Just for grins, I did some research on lightning, as stated on NOAA's site, Florida has the worst overall lightning for the year, but Colorado beats it in the summertime. Not to mention, Costa Rica beats both. All I'm saying is, we ground/solder/check everything and have 0 issues, when we don't, we have major issues. YMMV On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Got news for ya, STP does not fix the problem - the problem is with the board as they continuously have issues when everything else - even on the same pole - doesn't. And I am in FL and I assure you your level of pain with lightning isn't close :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem. We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL installs-customer installs as well. And the good grounded PacWireless POE injectors. With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning related service call. We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of truck rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Every 133 I used had a problem. Be it software, hardware, DOA, lightning, whatever. Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced, necessarily, by a newer board. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Nothing that I have seen. Sure they were not repackaged by your vendor? And/or like I suggested overclocked. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box lately? We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an interface we could use. We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few hours. We updated the firmware but with no positive result. My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and wearing on my staff. We're going back right now to reinstall the old 133 board. Any others having these problems? Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Thousands between Colorado and Costa Rica
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote:
And you have RB411's hung everywhere?
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:06 AM
To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA
General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
It did for us, but we always ensure a good electrical ground from end to
end. Maybe you're not soldering the drain wire to the connector, the
connector isn't making a good connection to the plug, etc.
Just for grins, I did some research on lightning, as stated on NOAA's
site,
Florida has the worst overall lightning for the year, but Colorado beats
it
in the summertime. Not to mention, Costa Rica beats both.
All I'm saying is, we ground/solder/check everything and have 0 issues,
when
we don't, we have major issues. YMMV
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Scott Carullo
sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote:
Got news for ya, STP does not fix the problem - the problem is with
the
board as they continuously have issues when everything else - even on
the
same pole - doesn't. And I am in FL and I assure you your level of
pain
with lightning isn't close :)
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:19 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the
country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded
cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL
installs-customer installs as well. And the good grounded
PacWireless
POE
injectors. With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning
related
service call.
We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of
truck
rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote:
Every 133 I used had a problem. Be it software, hardware, DOA,
lightning,
whatever. Out of dozens out there none survived and were
replaced,
necessarily, by a newer board.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess
dmburg...@linktechs.net
wrote:
Nothing that I have seen. Sure they were not repackaged by your
vendor?
And/or like I suggested overclocked.
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of
the
box
lately? We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once
only
on
18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got
to
an
interface we could use.
We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors
and
unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every
few
hours. We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on
the
radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting
costly
and
wearing on my staff. We're going back right now to reinstall
the
old
133 board. Any others having these problems?
Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
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WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
Old batteries are worth money. The local napa will take them for free. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries when they are no longer functional. Telephone companies have an extensive HAZMAT documentation and chain of custody requirement for their switch batteries. Don't think this industry will get away with not having some requirement like that for long :-) Thank You, Brian Webster !--[endif]-- Tom DeReggi wrote: Patrick, In general, sounds like good advice. To clarify our intent, in posting. From yr 2000-2008, our model was to 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites. 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered generator, in longer lasting Emergencies. (We have a couple hot spare generators) Why are we changing our view point? 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the batteries, based on watt load at the sites. 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to get to multiple locations at once with generators. Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes. 3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-) We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and not necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course still keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when needed. We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to, so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own. I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management would have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned about it blowing up if a gas leak occured. I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would require Xray and drilling every floor of 20. There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the tank after use? I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount on ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up. Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet the requirements of code and property managers. For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer, you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of their tenants for phone systems, etc. Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Tom DeReggi wrote: While on the topic of generators. Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial Multi-tenant buildings. Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately not allowed on roofs, for fire safety reasons. Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain generators. What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get installed in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof? If a propain generator was
Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
Better yet exchange them to discount your new battery... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Old batteries are worth money. The local napa will take them for free. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries when they are no longer functional. Telephone companies have an extensive HAZMAT documentation and chain of custody requirement for their switch batteries. Don't think this industry will get away with not having some requirement like that for long :-) Thank You, Brian Webster !--[endif]-- Tom DeReggi wrote: Patrick, In general, sounds like good advice. To clarify our intent, in posting. From yr 2000-2008, our model was to 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites. 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered generator, in longer lasting Emergencies. (We have a couple hot spare generators) Why are we changing our view point? 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the batteries, based on watt load at the sites. 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to get to multiple locations at once with generators. Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes. 3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-) We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and not necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course still keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when needed. We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to, so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own. I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management would have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned about it blowing up if a gas leak occured. I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would require Xray and drilling every floor of 20. There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the tank after use? I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount on ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up. Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet the requirements of code and property managers. For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer, you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of their tenants for phone systems, etc. Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Tom DeReggi wrote: While on the topic of generators.
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
That should always be done at the CPE. Otherwise your over the air traffic stays high as devices keep trying to shove traffic through too small ports. marlon - Original Message - From: sa...@michianawireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:51 PM Subject: [WISPA] Throttle Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
IMO, if you don't solder it, it's almost pointless. It must make an
excellent electrical connection to be worthwhile.
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote:
I've never soldered the drain wire to the connector. Do you do that now
because you have always been that way :)
Or, is it because you realized a noticeable difference between soldering
and not soldering the drain wire?
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:49 AM
To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA
General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Thousands between Colorado and Costa Rica
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Scott Carullo
sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote:
And you have RB411's hung everywhere?
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:06 AM
To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA
General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
It did for us, but we always ensure a good electrical ground from end
to
end. Maybe you're not soldering the drain wire to the connector,
the
connector isn't making a good connection to the plug, etc.
Just for grins, I did some research on lightning, as stated on
NOAA's
site,
Florida has the worst overall lightning for the year, but Colorado
beats
it
in the summertime. Not to mention, Costa Rica beats both.
All I'm saying is, we ground/solder/check everything and have 0
issues,
when
we don't, we have major issues. YMMV
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Scott Carullo
sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote:
Got news for ya, STP does not fix the problem - the problem is
with
the
board as they continuously have issues when everything else - even
on
the
same pole - doesn't. And I am in FL and I assure you your level
of
pain
with lightning isn't close :)
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:19 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in
the
country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without
shielded
cable-it's junk after a storm. We use shielded cable on ALL
installs-customer installs as well. And the good grounded
PacWireless
POE
injectors. With thousands in service, it's rare we get a
lightning
related
service call.
We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost
of
truck
rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote:
Every 133 I used had a problem. Be it software, hardware,
DOA,
lightning,
whatever. Out of dozens out there none survived and were
replaced,
necessarily, by a newer board.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess
dmburg...@linktechs.net
wrote:
Nothing that I have seen. Sure they were not repackaged by
your
vendor?
And/or like I suggested overclocked.
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out
of
the
box
lately? We purchased four this year so far and one beeped
once
only
on
18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or
got
to
an
interface we could use.
We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel
errors
and
unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration
every
few
hours. We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers
on
the
radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting
costly
[WISPA] Service Lead
David Blankenship 38975 Sky Canyon Drive Murrieta, CA 92563 951-256-4106 951-514-5188 Paying 600/mo for bonded T1 Looking for either same bandwidth at lower cost or more bandwidth for the same price. Asked me about 5Mbps or better. Call him directly. If you get a sale you can buy me an iced-tea at AF10 Thanks __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
When I was running 2.9.51, they worked fine, but they couldn't handle v3. Actually, I do have some full 133s (not the c version) out there running v3. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Every 133 I used had a problem. Be it software, hardware, DOA, lightning, whatever. Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced, necessarily, by a newer board. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: Nothing that I have seen. Sure they were not repackaged by your vendor? And/or like I suggested overclocked. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box lately? We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an interface we could use. We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few hours. We updated the firmware but with no positive result. My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and wearing on my staff. We're going back right now to reinstall the old 133 board. Any others having these problems? Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
From way back when I was an electrical engineering student, ground one end. Or ground every 10 to 20 feet along the run. Otherwise you have the potential for a ground loop, which means you have current running through the shield and then through the tower. That can induce it's own noise into the cable. Here is the key: Single Point Ground. The idea is to do your best to keep everything at the same voltage potential. So everything comes back to one place. So, while Jayson is right to a point about creating an antenna, the solution is different than he suggests. You want to have the drain wire do what it's name says, drain the stray signals to ground. For some installations, using the metal connector on one end works. That is, assuming that the board ground in directly connected to the single point ground. My personal preference is to directly connect the drain wire to the ground point, but the key is that you have one ground point and no current flowing through the ground wires. Jayson Baker wrote: If you don't ground both ends you're creating a huge antenna to pick up static and drain it right into your board/POE. Always use shielded connectors on both ends, and ground both ends. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: While we are on the STP topic... It's been noted several times that you are only supposed to ground ONE end of the STP shield otherwise you are creating for yourself a ground potential difference. The idea behind the shield is just that - shield noise away shunted to ground. On a typical install lets cal this the radio side use plastic connector and inside use grounded one with tall the other lightning goodies. What is the consensus on this while we are on topic :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea, we solder and heat shrink the ends on all our tower gear. Less problems, but still doesn't stop direct strikes, lol. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea... I don't think it's black, just how the picture was taken. It's usually a silver or gold wire, seperate from the others and not insulated. Sometimes it's stranded as opposed to being solid. You don't necessarily have to solder it - but make sure it's got a good electrical connection to the shielded RJ45 connector. And that the shield of the RJ45 connector has a good electrical connection to the boards plug. And the antenna to the board. And the RJ45 to the POE, and POE to ground. You get the idea. Like I said, we have thousands of these in service in Colorado--all that use shielded cable have no problems at all. Those that don't are guaranteed problems sooner or later. Our Costa Rica operation doesn't use shielded cable (supposedly it's too costly to import), so everytime there's a storm dozens of boards are thrown away. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: *Face plant* Never heard of those before... I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire? It doesn't drain water, but is conductive - is this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors. Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100' long lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board. Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good grounded POE injector == no problems for many years On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: You lost me - drain wire? Soldered onto a plastic rj45? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: We also
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Scott, So do you solder or ground the shielded end at any point or just ground the drain wire only? -Eric Scott Reed wrote: From way back when I was an electrical engineering student, ground one end. Or ground every 10 to 20 feet along the run. Otherwise you have the potential for a ground loop, which means you have current running through the shield and then through the tower. That can induce it's own noise into the cable. Here is the key: Single Point Ground. The idea is to do your best to keep everything at the same voltage potential. So everything comes back to one place. So, while Jayson is right to a point about creating an antenna, the solution is different than he suggests. You want to have the drain wire do what it's name says, drain the stray signals to ground. For some installations, using the metal connector on one end works. That is, assuming that the board ground in directly connected to the single point ground. My personal preference is to directly connect the drain wire to the ground point, but the key is that you have one ground point and no current flowing through the ground wires. Jayson Baker wrote: If you don't ground both ends you're creating a huge antenna to pick up static and drain it right into your board/POE. Always use shielded connectors on both ends, and ground both ends. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: While we are on the STP topic... It's been noted several times that you are only supposed to ground ONE end of the STP shield otherwise you are creating for yourself a ground potential difference. The idea behind the shield is just that - shield noise away shunted to ground. On a typical install lets cal this the radio side use plastic connector and inside use grounded one with tall the other lightning goodies. What is the consensus on this while we are on topic :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Well what are you grounding on either end? At the base of the tower you actually go to earth - the radio itself isn't ground - the earth is, so only the ground at at the bottom. On 8/4/09, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net wrote: From way back when I was an electrical engineering student, ground one end. Or ground every 10 to 20 feet along the run. Otherwise you have the potential for a ground loop, which means you have current running through the shield and then through the tower. That can induce it's own noise into the cable. Here is the key: Single Point Ground. The idea is to do your best to keep everything at the same voltage potential. So everything comes back to one place. So, while Jayson is right to a point about creating an antenna, the solution is different than he suggests. You want to have the drain wire do what it's name says, drain the stray signals to ground. For some installations, using the metal connector on one end works. That is, assuming that the board ground in directly connected to the single point ground. My personal preference is to directly connect the drain wire to the ground point, but the key is that you have one ground point and no current flowing through the ground wires. Jayson Baker wrote: If you don't ground both ends you're creating a huge antenna to pick up static and drain it right into your board/POE. Always use shielded connectors on both ends, and ground both ends. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: While we are on the STP topic... It's been noted several times that you are only supposed to ground ONE end of the STP shield otherwise you are creating for yourself a ground potential difference. The idea behind the shield is just that - shield noise away shunted to ground. On a typical install lets cal this the radio side use plastic connector and inside use grounded one with tall the other lightning goodies. What is the consensus on this while we are on topic :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea, we solder and heat shrink the ends on all our tower gear. Less problems, but still doesn't stop direct strikes, lol. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea... I don't think it's black, just how the picture was taken. It's usually a silver or gold wire, seperate from the others and not insulated. Sometimes it's stranded as opposed to being solid. You don't necessarily have to solder it - but make sure it's got a good electrical connection to the shielded RJ45 connector. And that the shield of the RJ45 connector has a good electrical connection to the boards plug. And the antenna to the board. And the RJ45 to the POE, and POE to ground. You get the idea. Like I said, we have thousands of these in service in Colorado--all that use shielded cable have no problems at all. Those that don't are guaranteed problems sooner or later. Our Costa Rica operation doesn't use shielded cable (supposedly it's too costly to import), so everytime there's a storm dozens of boards are thrown away. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: *Face plant* Never heard of those before... I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire? It doesn't drain water, but is conductive - is this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors. Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100' long lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board. Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good grounded POE injector == no problems for many years On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: You lost me - drain wire? Soldered onto a plastic rj45? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
We typically hook the drain wire up to screw terminals on a buss bar, like you'd use for the neutrals/grounds in a breaker panel. They are only a few dollars at the hardware store. This buss bar is usually bolted to the grounded rack or copper grounding plate that the coax lightning arrestors use. On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 11:25:53AM -0500, Eric Muehleisen wrote: Scott, So do you solder or ground the shielded end at any point or just ground the drain wire only? -Eric Scott Reed wrote: From way back when I was an electrical engineering student, ground one end. Or ground every 10 to 20 feet along the run. Otherwise you have the potential for a ground loop, which means you have current running through the shield and then through the tower. That can induce it's own noise into the cable. Here is the key: Single Point Ground. The idea is to do your best to keep everything at the same voltage potential. So everything comes back to one place. So, while Jayson is right to a point about creating an antenna, the solution is different than he suggests. You want to have the drain wire do what it's name says, drain the stray signals to ground. For some installations, using the metal connector on one end works. That is, assuming that the board ground in directly connected to the single point ground. My personal preference is to directly connect the drain wire to the ground point, but the key is that you have one ground point and no current flowing through the ground wires. Jayson Baker wrote: If you don't ground both ends you're creating a huge antenna to pick up static and drain it right into your board/POE. Always use shielded connectors on both ends, and ground both ends. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: While we are on the STP topic... It's been noted several times that you are only supposed to ground ONE end of the STP shield otherwise you are creating for yourself a ground potential difference. The idea behind the shield is just that - shield noise away shunted to ground. On a typical install lets cal this the radio side use plastic connector and inside use grounded one with tall the other lightning goodies. What is the consensus on this while we are on topic :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Depends on the cable. For most of it, I just run the drain wire to the ground block. For the BDDN cable, I found some ground clamps that are like alligator clips with screws. You put one jaw inside the shield, one between the shield and the jacket and the teeth pierce the shield. If I can find the supplier/part number I will post it. Eric Muehleisen wrote: Scott, So do you solder or ground the shielded end at any point or just ground the drain wire only? -Eric Scott Reed wrote: From way back when I was an electrical engineering student, ground one end. Or ground every 10 to 20 feet along the run. Otherwise you have the potential for a ground loop, which means you have current running through the shield and then through the tower. That can induce it's own noise into the cable. Here is the key: Single Point Ground. The idea is to do your best to keep everything at the same voltage potential. So everything comes back to one place. So, while Jayson is right to a point about creating an antenna, the solution is different than he suggests. You want to have the drain wire do what it's name says, drain the stray signals to ground. For some installations, using the metal connector on one end works. That is, assuming that the board ground in directly connected to the single point ground. My personal preference is to directly connect the drain wire to the ground point, but the key is that you have one ground point and no current flowing through the ground wires. Jayson Baker wrote: If you don't ground both ends you're creating a huge antenna to pick up static and drain it right into your board/POE. Always use shielded connectors on both ends, and ground both ends. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: While we are on the STP topic... It's been noted several times that you are only supposed to ground ONE end of the STP shield otherwise you are creating for yourself a ground potential difference. The idea behind the shield is just that - shield noise away shunted to ground. On a typical install lets cal this the radio side use plastic connector and inside use grounded one with tall the other lightning goodies. What is the consensus on this while we are on topic :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2281 - Release Date: 08/04/09 05:57:00 -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Form 477
This is a reminder to file your form 477. It was pretty easy this time, I just had to geocode new customers and note what tracts where I lost customers... then I just copied the cells over from the last filing, making adjustments as necessary. Maybe WISPA should have an auto reminder each time the 477 is due. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
Fuel cells, too. http://www.fuelcellmarkets.com/products_and_services/3,1,599,17,7561.html Christopher Erickson wrote: The right type of batteries could give you 15 to 20 years of service. And adding a pair of solar panels and an MPPT solar charge controller could increase your backup battery run time from a couple of days to a couple of weeks. And no volatile fuel issues to deal with either. And their PMI interval is a godsend too. And cheaper than a genny. Add another panel or two and you might even be able to drop your grid connection. Remember to eliminate as many power conversions as possible from your telecom power design. -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Patrick, In general, sounds like good advice. To clarify our intent, in posting. From yr 2000-2008, our model was to 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites. 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered generator, in longer lasting Emergencies. (We have a couple hot spare generators) Why are we changing our view point? 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the batteries, based on watt load at the sites. 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to get to multiple locations at once with generators. Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes. 3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-) We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and not necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course still keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when needed. We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to, so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own. I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management would have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned about it blowing up if a gas leak occured. I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would require Xray and drilling every floor of 20. There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the tank after use? I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount on ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up. Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet the requirements of code and property managers. For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer, you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of their tenants for phone systems, etc. Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Tom
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
I use MikroTik Queue's for my D/L limiting. My border router is big enough to handle quite a few clients... os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting. How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router? Greg On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote: For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it. I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router. This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe. This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP. In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network. YMMV sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
Scott, I guess the best thing to keep in mind is... do whatever works for you. If you're talking tower: We ground at both ends, because the ground potential is the same at both ends (i.e. the tower, the building DC/AC source, routers, switches, etc. are all tied to a common ground). If you're talking customer: We don't ground the mount/mast separately, so effectively it's grounded through the Cat5. Perhaps not the ideal way to do it, but has always avoided lightning problems for us. Ground loops ARE real, and DO occur - especially in residential installs. When we used to install DISH Network we'd see this on occasion, usually in older homes. DISH would be grounded outside to the house ground, but that was at a different potential than the (sometimes 2-prong AC plugged) receiver, so you'd get odd behavior. Disconnecting ground solved those issues. Jayson On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.netwrote: From way back when I was an electrical engineering student, ground one end. Or ground every 10 to 20 feet along the run. Otherwise you have the potential for a ground loop, which means you have current running through the shield and then through the tower. That can induce it's own noise into the cable. Here is the key: Single Point Ground. The idea is to do your best to keep everything at the same voltage potential. So everything comes back to one place. So, while Jayson is right to a point about creating an antenna, the solution is different than he suggests. You want to have the drain wire do what it's name says, drain the stray signals to ground. For some installations, using the metal connector on one end works. That is, assuming that the board ground in directly connected to the single point ground. My personal preference is to directly connect the drain wire to the ground point, but the key is that you have one ground point and no current flowing through the ground wires. Jayson Baker wrote: If you don't ground both ends you're creating a huge antenna to pick up static and drain it right into your board/POE. Always use shielded connectors on both ends, and ground both ends. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: While we are on the STP topic... It's been noted several times that you are only supposed to ground ONE end of the STP shield otherwise you are creating for yourself a ground potential difference. The idea behind the shield is just that - shield noise away shunted to ground. On a typical install lets cal this the radio side use plastic connector and inside use grounded one with tall the other lightning goodies. What is the consensus on this while we are on topic :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea, we solder and heat shrink the ends on all our tower gear. Less problems, but still doesn't stop direct strikes, lol. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik Yea... I don't think it's black, just how the picture was taken. It's usually a silver or gold wire, seperate from the others and not insulated. Sometimes it's stranded as opposed to being solid. You don't necessarily have to solder it - but make sure it's got a good electrical connection to the shielded RJ45 connector. And that the shield of the RJ45 connector has a good electrical connection to the boards plug. And the antenna to the board. And the RJ45 to the POE, and POE to ground. You get the idea. Like I said, we have thousands of these in service in Colorado--all that use shielded cable have no problems at all. Those that don't are guaranteed problems sooner or later. Our Costa Rica operation doesn't use shielded cable (supposedly it's too costly to import), so everytime there's a storm dozens of boards are thrown away. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: *Face plant* Never heard of those before... I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire? It doesn't drain water, but is conductive - is this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at
Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
Let's not forget small nuclear power as sold in 1951! ... http://xrl.in/2u36 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Curtis Maurand Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Fuel cells, too. http://www.fuelcellmarkets.com/products_and_services/3,1,599,17,7561.html Christopher Erickson wrote: The right type of batteries could give you 15 to 20 years of service. And adding a pair of solar panels and an MPPT solar charge controller could increase your backup battery run time from a couple of days to a couple of weeks. And no volatile fuel issues to deal with either. And their PMI interval is a godsend too. And cheaper than a genny. Add another panel or two and you might even be able to drop your grid connection. Remember to eliminate as many power conversions as possible from your telecom power design. -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Patrick, In general, sounds like good advice. To clarify our intent, in posting. From yr 2000-2008, our model was to 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites. 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered generator, in longer lasting Emergencies. (We have a couple hot spare generators) Why are we changing our view point? 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the batteries, based on watt load at the sites. 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to get to multiple locations at once with generators. Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes. 3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-) We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and not necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course still keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when needed. We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to, so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own. I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management would have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned about it blowing up if a gas leak occured. I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would require Xray and drilling every floor of 20. There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the tank after use? I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount on ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up. Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet the requirements of code and property managers. For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer, you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of their tenants for phone systems, etc. Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and place a power inlet down there.
[WISPA] Tranzeo TR-SL9 Performs Worse than TR-902s in NLOS Conditions
Dear WISPA Friends, We've been testing the latest Tranzeo TR-SL9 radios and are seeing some weird issues. In line of sight conditions, the radio performs superbly. But when using these same radios in near line of sight conditions, they perform 10-20 dBi worse than the equivalent TR-902 radio with comparable gain antenna. We are using the latest firmware load. If you have see this problem, have you been able to solve it? Kelly Shaw Kinex Telecom WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports
I am accumulating RB450Gs with bad eth ports. Some ports work fine router works no problem. Is it the same deal for these cause I need them fixed ;) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:07 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports If you have any RB/411's that boot up, but have blown Ethernet ports, I will buy them from you. $5/board if you don't want it back $20/board if you would like it repaired and sent back to you. Some boards that we have been receiving cannot be repaired due to a direct lightning strike. They must be bootable, but without link. Please contact me off-list for further details. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
Sorry, I should have posted this page. no moving parts. http://www.idatech.com/ Tom DeReggi wrote: Patrick, All excellent points, and reality checks. Thanks for the feedback! Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on a commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum using even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting surface for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could be an issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. Then the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed EC. I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site: $1500 including shipping. A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All generators break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled models don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, you won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power goes out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) have contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to your site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Tom DeReggi wrote: We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. Actually, we got a good 15 years out of the existing CD batteries, because we inherited them from Teligent days :-) But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt and decent run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters. (The Triplites worked really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight years. We matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice versa.) So our thought was Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time and load, and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, power conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when batteries short out. Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now have duplicate need of devices to power. Some are AC devices like PC routers. Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear running on 48V. Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC and DC backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How many new radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We really dont know in advance. There is a lot of power waste going from AC to DC to AC to DC. The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the propaine generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed with lower cost lower run-time batteries. We'd still need to account for max watts growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements for both subsystems. Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with batteries :-) Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. Although, I bet my ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo fee for them :-( I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather shields :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a pain. On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) which includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic transfer switch. Add the batteries and you're done. Greg On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Thank you, That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a UPS. A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the batteries @ 24VDC. Thanks again Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gary Garrett Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM To:
Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator The soviets made portable radioactive generators to power lighthouses and beacons; 87 years and you've only used half your fuel. On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 11:19:31AM -0700, Chuck Profito wrote: Let's not forget small nuclear power as sold in 1951! ... http://xrl.in/2u36 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Curtis Maurand Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Fuel cells, too. http://www.fuelcellmarkets.com/products_and_services/3,1,599,17,7561.html Christopher Erickson wrote: The right type of batteries could give you 15 to 20 years of service. And adding a pair of solar panels and an MPPT solar charge controller could increase your backup battery run time from a couple of days to a couple of weeks. And no volatile fuel issues to deal with either. And their PMI interval is a godsend too. And cheaper than a genny. Add another panel or two and you might even be able to drop your grid connection. Remember to eliminate as many power conversions as possible from your telecom power design. -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Patrick, In general, sounds like good advice. To clarify our intent, in posting. From yr 2000-2008, our model was to 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites. 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered generator, in longer lasting Emergencies. (We have a couple hot spare generators) Why are we changing our view point? 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the batteries, based on watt load at the sites. 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to get to multiple locations at once with generators. Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes. 3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-) We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and not necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course still keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when needed. We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to, so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own. I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management would have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned about it blowing up if a gas leak occured. I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would require Xray and drilling every floor of 20. There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the tank after use? I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount on ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up. Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet the requirements of code and property managers. For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict requirements such as sub 10
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
I do the same but wonder if there is a better way? Doesnt this load unwanted traffic on the backhauls? -RickG On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Blair Davisthe...@wmwisp.net wrote: I use MikroTik Queue's for my D/L limiting. My border router is big enough to handle quite a few clients... os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting. How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router? Greg On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote: For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it. I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router. This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe. This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP. In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network. YMMV sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Anyone have 2.1.1 firmware for the NS5?
I have a system running a few NS5's using firmware 2.1.1. I just bought another NS5 and it's got newer firmware and won't connect to the others and I'm hoping it's because of the firmware and that if I regress to 2.1.1 in the new one all will be OK. I've contacted Ubiquiti and after a first contact never heard any more. If anyone has firmware 2.1.1 for the NS5 and could shoot me a copy I'd really appreciate it. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
What we've done to date is throttle at the CPE; we have always chosen cpe's with this capability. It was super important because we started in a very rural area with a satellite as our upstream...painful because of FAP's and such. We've moved on. The above method keeps the congestion lower over the wireless links, but it isn't perfect. Ideally, throttling is done at the data source only. If you throttle downloads at the CPE, when the customer requests data, ethernet dictates that the flow starts fast and then backs off as packets are dropped, which is exactly what the cpe does to throttle the flow. This wastes your network and upstream bandwidth. So, throttle downloads at your NOC as soon as possible in your network's flow. Throttle uploads at the CPE. This is what I am about to do on my network. I have everything in place; just got to throw the (linux based) switch. The linux box has big queues and won't waste as much of my upstream link this way. Also, if you cache or have a local email server, as we do, that stuff can go out to customers at a much higher rate. Their perceived speed's better when the google logo loads instantly ;-) My 2 cents, Jason RickG wrote: I do the same but wonder if there is a better way? Doesnt this load unwanted traffic on the backhauls? -RickG On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Blair Davisthe...@wmwisp.net wrote: I use MikroTik Queue's for my D/L limiting. My border router is big enough to handle quite a few clients... os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting. How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router? Greg On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote: For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it. I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router. This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe. This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP. In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network. YMMV sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 01:51 -0400, sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? This depends on several things. If your cpe can handle it, I like to limit uploads (at the very least) on the cpe. Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. What kind of router and cpe? Much of this will depend on the answers to those questions. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? There is no disadvantage given the fact that you will be scripting the configuration. The only real disadvantage is the management aspect, but with this being controlled centrally, there is no disadvantage at all. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
Thanks PS. Isn't Hydrogen Fual Cell the technology Spring just got like $X billion grant to pioneer? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Curtis Maurand cmaur...@xyonet.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Sorry, I should have posted this page. no moving parts. http://www.idatech.com/ Tom DeReggi wrote: Patrick, All excellent points, and reality checks. Thanks for the feedback! Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on a commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum using even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting surface for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could be an issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. Then the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed EC. I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site: $1500 including shipping. A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All generators break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled models don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, you won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power goes out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) have contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to your site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Tom DeReggi wrote: We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. Actually, we got a good 15 years out of the existing CD batteries, because we inherited them from Teligent days :-) But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt and decent run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters. (The Triplites worked really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight years. We matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice versa.) So our thought was Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time and load, and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, power conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when batteries short out. Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now have duplicate need of devices to power. Some are AC devices like PC routers. Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear running on 48V. Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC and DC backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How many new radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We really dont know in advance. There is a lot of power waste going from AC to DC to AC to DC. The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the propaine generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed with lower cost lower run-time batteries. We'd still need to account for max watts growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements for both subsystems. Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with batteries :-) Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. Although, I bet my ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo fee for them :-( I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather shields :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a pain. On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) which includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic transfer switch. Add the batteries and you're done. Greg On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Thank you, That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning
