Re: [WISPA] Comcast will also be offering up to 50 Mbps

[Travis Johnson]

Do you have one of those connections at your office? If not, get one.
Then run speed tests and latency tests and post the results on your
homepage. That's what we do, and it works great.

Our 1Mbps service was 47% faster than CableOne's 3Mbps service... plus
our upload is 1Mbps compared with 256k.

Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

  Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
Just want to point out a couple things...

"up to 50 Mbps" means anywhere from 0 to 50... and

The local cable company has automatic throttling even on downloads. One 
customer said he was downloading a video driver (150MB file) and it 
started at 3Mbps and by the end was down to 256k. His connection stayed 
at 256k for about another 2 hours. They are capping people even when 
they say "up to xx" speeds.

Travis
Microserv

  
  
I don't have any resi or even small business customers that want to pay 
150.00 per month for their internet.

Noticed though that cablevision is doing 30 right now for 65.00 per 
month. Thats hard to beat from a consumers point of view.







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Re: [WISPA] Comcast will also be offering up to 50 Mbps

[Travis Johnson]

Just want to point out a couple things...

"up to 50 Mbps" means anywhere from 0 to 50... and

The local cable company has automatic throttling even on downloads. One 
customer said he was downloading a video driver (150MB file) and it 
started at 3Mbps and by the end was down to 256k. His connection stayed 
at 256k for about another 2 hours. They are capping people even when 
they say "up to xx" speeds.

Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:
> Comcast will also be offering up to 50 Mbps for downloading, or 
> receiving, files. Uploading, or sending, files will be at up to 5 Mbps. 
> The monthly $150 price is available only to residential customers; small 
> businesses will have to pay $200 for a package that includes additional 
> technical support and security software.
>
> The existing high-end tier costs $53. Maximum upload speeds for those 
> customers will automatically increase to 2 Mbps, more than doubling the 
> current limits. Downloads will remain at up to 8 Mbps. Maximum upload 
> speeds for the basic, $43 tier will nearly triple to 1 Mbps, while 
> downloads will remain capped at 6 Mbps.
>
> Cablevision Systems Corp. already offers a 50 Mbps maximum download 
> service — with 50 Mbps maximum uploads — for about $200 a month but does 
> not actively market it. Cablevision's fastest advertised service costs 
> up to $65 for maximum downloads of 30 Mbps downloads and uploads of 5 Mbps.
>
> To offer the new tier, Comcast is taking advantage of a technology 
> called DOCSIS 3.0, which allows service providers to use four TV 
> channels rather than just one to send data over the cables. The industry 
> group CableLabs is nearing certification of DOCSIS 3.0 modems.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080402/ap_on_hi_te/comcast_faster_internet;_ylt=Agz9F6XU258ZFxgyO4WbYLYjtBAF
>
>
>
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[WISPA] RB411 enclosure

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Anyone have suggestions for an outdoor enclosure to hold a single RB411 
and wireless card? I'm looking for a small, plastic type enclosure to 
make an "external" version of an RB411 (using an RJ45-ECS and N-female 
connector). The PacWireless DCE will work, but it's kind of heavy and 
big and I'm hoping to find something I can "mount" to the back of the 
antenna directly.

thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] The best Firewall - for the money

[Travis Johnson]

Cisco PIX ASA series (unlimited user). I think they are about $600-$700.

Travis
Microserv

Ron Wallace wrote:
> to All,
>
> I have a small Medical practice that has requested a firewall for their LAN. 
> Which would you all recommend? Price rane below $1000, Doc woule prefer $500.
>
> Ron Wallace
> Hahnron, Inc.
> 220 S. Jackson Dt.
> Addison, MI 49220
>
> Phone: (517)547-8410
> Mobile: (517)605-4542
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS

[Travis Johnson]

We already do. Imagestream and Mikrotik for over 2 years. 0 downtime  
and hot spares in the rack. :)

Travis

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2008, at 11:56 AM, "Mark Nash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Yes, I would.
>
> Mark Nash
> UnwiredWest
> 78 Centennial Loop
> Suite E
> Eugene, OR 97401
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
> http://www.unwiredwest.com
> - Original Message -
> From: "Joshua Rowe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
>
>
>> This should maybe be a new thread, and I'm not sure Tom is making  
>> this
> point
>> or not,, but I agree, would you trust your CORE to anything but  
>> Cisco? I'm
>> not sure I would.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> --
>> NexGenAccess Inc. 
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message ---
>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:45:36 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS
>>
 What does MT do that Star doesn't do in the routing arena?
>>>
>>> I'll add that both platforms have the same flaw.  They use
>>> OpenSource, but then close the system. Seems kind of opposite the
> purpose.
>>> On a possitive note, I have to say, Mikrotik has really innovated
>>> their platform, with a lot of their own code and solutions, to solve
>>> problems that couldn't be solved using the previous alternative
>>> popular open source apps usually used for those purposes.  My hats
>>> goes off  to them.
>>>
>>> But the risk that keeps popping up is...  They aren't Cisco, in the
>>> terms of 1000's of top tier people to research and support
>>> development of their platform. Can we trust MT's or any small
>>> player's proprietary code, for the long haul?  In the Open Source
>>> world, there is a clear answer to that, make it open source, and if
>>> the developer stops maintaining it, there is a way to get someone to
>>> take over maintaining it, without loosing the investment into the
> platform.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying companies like MT and STAROS should make their
>>> proprietary code into open source. But what I like is the ability to
>>> ADD packages to an existing platform.
>>>
>>> I can give an example, of a monthy ago, when I installed a MT router
>>> because , I thought the pretty GUI would make a good impression, but
>>> then 24hours later I had to pull it because there was no way for me
>>> to test the performance of the link remotely, easilly for my
>>> specific situation. I needed Iperf on the router. It was a better
>>> choice to use a standard Linux system, basic native routing, because
>>> it also enabled Iperf.
>>>
>>> MT and STAROS are two nice products, but this discussion doesn't
>>> stop there.
>>>
>>> For example ImageStream, even though a bit more expensive, they
>>> provide an Open system. Their OS is maintained and preloaded with a
>>> few bells and whistles.  But you CAN LOAD your own code ALSO.
>>>
>>> Then there is Voyeta.  Its based on 2.6 Kernal of Linux, and its
>>> 100% open source, and give the security of using a maintained OS
>>> (for example BGP and QUAGGA fixes). But you can pay extra for
>>> maintenance and quicker updates.
>>>
>>> MT and STARTOS, will stay winners for high end WIFI Radio CPE and
>>> APs. But when it comes to Core Routers, to stay competitive, they
>>> really need to open the platform, and allow third party modules to
>>> be loaded by owners or developers.  Sure, there is the arguement
>>> that "CISCO DOESN"T DO  THAT", but they aren't Cisco.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>
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>> --- 
>> 
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>> --- End of Original Message ---
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] Off Grid System Design Comments.

[Travis Johnson]

I agree. Wind turbines really only produce about 50% of what they claim
(even at full wind speed). You will need 4 or 6 of that size wind
turbine to keep things running.

We had a site that was on a 9500ft mountaintop that showed a 15mph wind
average (over the entire year). We put up two 400 watt turbines and had
10 or 12 batteries (100ah). We only  had 5 radios total (trango) and a
small 5 port 12v switch. The site would stay up for about 3-4 days
before we had to go start the generator. I think our total draw was
under 80 watts for everything.

You need to take a look at the Bergey wind turbines. They are
expensive, but they work really well. However, you can NOT mount them
on the top of a Rohn type tower... their mounting pipe has to be exact,
and if it's off by even 1/8", the whole thing will eventually vibrate
itself apart. Spend the extra $500 and buy their recommended mounting
tower system.

Travis
Microserv

JohnnyO wrote:

  Cameron - unless you have CONSTANT wind, you are going to be seriously 
underpowered.

JohnnyO

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Off Grid System Design Comments.


  
  
We are installing a new tower very soon (in the next couple weeks) that
will be run completely off Wind power with a 400-watt wind turbine. Of
course we will have 6 105 amp hour batteries. Our draw at one of our
popular sites is under 375 watts. This using a PC-Based MikroTik/ HP
Procurve 2524, 6 Alvarion B NET Backhauls, 2 Alvarion VL-AU's, 1 Trango
900 Sector.

We switched some hardware in the MikroTik routers mostly the newer low
powered AMD cpu's and that made a hugh difference and going from the HP
procurve 2424m to a 2524 which cut the wattage from 90 watts to about 25
watts. The Alvarion Units use about 200 watts total and the trango is like
13 watts or so, (been a while since I checked them). The mikrotik router
is uing 60-75 watts. All in all, not to shabby as far as power
consumption.

-Cameron



  I wanted to get input from the WISPA list about a complete design for a
off
grid base station design base on a dual and quad radio system. We have
been
looking into this and have come up with a design using both wind and 
solar
power that will keep a unit up and running 24/7/365. The idea is to have 
a
complete package design so the base stations can be installed anywhere,
but
in order to keep the costs low it would be base on a max 48Watt design.

Questions:
1. Is this something WISP would want in the USA, and would find useful?
2. Would you like this in a single package or parts (where a package 
would
have a 1 year warrantee and parts would not)
3. What are you finding the power needs are at a typical WPOP?
4. Other Comments?






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Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS

[Travis Johnson]

I tested one about two months ago. We were pushing 120Mbps incoming and
50Mbps outgoing traffic with 10 simple queues and some firewall rules
and the CPU was running at about 35%. Their claim is something like
5Gbps thru the box (using all ports at the same time). It was a pretty
impressive box for the price.

Travis
Microserv

Mark Nash wrote:

  I've wondered how those powerouters performed.  It would be nice to have a 
Linux-based 1u 8 or 12 port router that we could run either Mikrotik or 
StarOS on .  My preference would be StarOS.

Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com
- Original Message - 
From: "David E. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intel-based 4-port Fast Ethernet Card - StarOS


  
  

  After swapping
DoM, RAM, power supply and even the motherboard it turned out to be a bad
MikroTik RB44 NIC.  Granted this is the first time I've ever seen a RB44
completely halt a MT router from booting, but it happened.
  

Me too :D

Over the last few months, I've had all manner of weird problems with
Mikrotik's RB44G NICs. One of them kept locking up a bandwidth shaper -
which, unfortunately, was connected at such a point in my network as to
kill off a whole bunch of customers until someone drove up to the office
and hard-powercycled it.

While I replaced RAM, motherboards, and even obscure things like PCI riser
cards, I never replaced the NIC, because that's one of those things you
just don't expect to go bad. Or at least if it does, it'll just stop
working completely and not be weirdly intermittent.

A second RB44G had one dud port out of the box. :(

I recently replaced that system with one of Dennis Burgess' PowerRouter 1U
rackmount devices, which includes seven Intel Pro1000 gigabit network
ports. Those ports alone are probably half the price of the unit. It's a
bit overkill for my needs, honestly, but it hasn't so much as hiccuped.
(In all fairness I've only had it deployed for about a week and a half,
but that's already longer than my home-built system with the RB44G NIC was
running between total lockups.)

David Smith
MVN.net




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Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors

[Travis Johnson]

I am going to try changing one of our sectors from the SR5 card to the 
WLM card and see what that does. However, if I change from 5240mhz to 
5800mhz (with no other changes), the signal levels are 2-5db (varying 
between customers) and the signals also match on each side of each link.

I'll let you know what we find out tomorrow.

Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:
> My understanding was that the WLM54AGs do not operate/react the same as 
> Ubiquiti cards, to software regarding setting TX power.  Unfortuntately, I 
> can't remember the difference/limitation off the top of my head.  But if the 
> software is set the same on both sides, it does not necessarilly mean you 
> will get the same results out of them, even though they have very similar 
> specs of power output.  We also had numerous situation where which brand 
> pigtail.Coax connector we used, mismatched, to cause 4-6 db difference. Once 
> we started using Shireen's cables which were very well made, those problems 
> went away.  
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Travis Johnson 
>   To: WISPA General List 
>   Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:02 PM
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>
>
>   MT with SR5 at the AP and WLM54AG-23 at the client.
>
>   Tested on two different towers with 5 clients on each. Same results with 
> both locations.
>
>   I have used the PacWireless 5.8ghz 2ft dishes at 5.3ghz and only saw a 2db 
> difference (at max)... so I figured because the sectors were spec'd down to 
> 5.4ghz that 5.3ghz wouldn't be a problem... but giving up 5db (only on 1 side 
> of the link too, which is weird) is a lot. :(
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>   Gino Villarini wrote: 
> What radios?
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 7:43 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>
> Ya, that's what I thought as well... so we deployed about 15 of them on 
> tower sites... and then I did a test by switching customers from 5.3ghz 
> to 5.8ghz (just changing the channel on the radios, with everything else
>
> the same) and we see a 3-5db difference. :(
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Gino Villarini wrote:
>   Using a 5.4 - 5.8 sector on 5.3 wont be much of a problem ...maybe
> loosing .5 db in gain?
>
>  
>
> Gino A. Villarini 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 
>
> 
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
>   Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:25 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>
>  
>
> PacWireless has the 5.4-5.8 horizontal sectors for $200... and they
> are
>   working on a 4.9-5.8ghz version, but not available right now. :(
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 
>
> Define affordable?
>  
> I used Radio Waves for my only 5 gig sectors (we're reserving 5 gig
> for
>   high 
> end customers).  $600 each as I recall.
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since
> 1999!
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>  
>  
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; "WISPA General List" 
>  <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> 
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:37 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>  
>  
>   
>
>   Hi,
>
>   Anyone have suggestions for affordable 90 and 120 degree 5.3ghz
> sector
>   (horizontal polarity is preferred) antennas?
>
>   thanks,
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>
>   
>
> 
>   
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Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors

[Travis Johnson]

Just checked Tessco... Terrawave doesn't make a horizontal version. :(

We have used some Superpass antennas in the past, and they seem to 
work... the only issue is the actual mounting and physical "looks" of 
the antenna... they look homemade. I just have a hard time putting 
antennas like that on commercial tower sites next to $1,000 cellular 
antennas. :(

Travis

Tom DeReggi wrote:
> PAc- If you can ever find stock of the Pac tri-band model.
>
> Best deal I found was Terrawave sold by Tessco. We found them to be great so 
> far, have slightly larger Ubolt than most, so we can fit them on wider masts. 
> (I think 2.75" dia).  They also are not to tall, so easy to fit in tight 
> spaces. These are Verticle Pol though. Also pretty durable single point tilt 
> mount, so can find free pole space easy to mount.
>
> Wincomm has a model a few dollars more, but has a single point mount also.
>
> If 12-14 dbi is enough, Superpass has some nice 12" short models, also 
> verticle.
>
> However, I don't believe either of those are Horizontal, athough they may 
> have them, Can't remember.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Travis Johnson 
>   To: WISPA General List 
>   Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 12:25 PM
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>
>
>   PacWireless has the 5.4-5.8 horizontal sectors for $200... and they are 
> working on a 4.9-5.8ghz version, but not available right now. :(
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>   Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 
> Define affordable?
>
> I used Radio Waves for my only 5 gig sectors (we're reserving 5 gig for high 
> end customers).  $600 each as I recall.
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)        WISP Operator since 1999!
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
> 
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:37 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>
>
>   Hi,
>
> Anyone have suggestions for affordable 90 and 120 degree 5.3ghz sector
> (horizontal polarity is preferred) antennas?
>
> thanks,
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors

[Travis Johnson]

Yes... the ONLY issue I have with MTI is the price... why can I buy a 
PacWireless antenna for $180 and the same antenna from MTI is $600+?

I have over 100 AP's to put up during the next two months... $400 
difference x 100 = $40,000 difference just in the antenna pricing. :(

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
> I noticed the same thing.  My MTI radios are speced for the whole 5 GHz band 
> and have more even performance.  I'm wondering what sort of performance 
> PacWireless's new antennas have.
>
>
> --
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>   ----- Original Message - 
>   From: Travis Johnson 
>   To: WISPA General List 
>   Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:02 PM
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>
>
>   MT with SR5 at the AP and WLM54AG-23 at the client.
>
>   Tested on two different towers with 5 clients on each. Same results with 
> both locations.
>
>   I have used the PacWireless 5.8ghz 2ft dishes at 5.3ghz and only saw a 2db 
> difference (at max)... so I figured because the sectors were spec'd down to 
> 5.4ghz that 5.3ghz wouldn't be a problem... but giving up 5db (only on 1 side 
> of the link too, which is weird) is a lot. :(
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>   Gino Villarini wrote: 
> What radios?
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 7:43 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>
> Ya, that's what I thought as well... so we deployed about 15 of them on 
> tower sites... and then I did a test by switching customers from 5.3ghz 
> to 5.8ghz (just changing the channel on the radios, with everything else
>
> the same) and we see a 3-5db difference. :(
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Gino Villarini wrote:
>   Using a 5.4 - 5.8 sector on 5.3 wont be much of a problem ...maybe
> loosing .5 db in gain?
>
>  
>
> Gino A. Villarini 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 
>
> 
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
>   Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:25 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>
>  
>
> PacWireless has the 5.4-5.8 horizontal sectors for $200... and they
> are
>   working on a 4.9-5.8ghz version, but not available right now. :(
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 
>
> Define affordable?
>  
> I used Radio Waves for my only 5 gig sectors (we're reserving 5 gig
> for
>   high 
> end customers).  $600 each as I recall.
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since
> 1999!
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>  
>  
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; "WISPA General List" 
>  <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> 
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:37 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>  
>  
>   
>
>   Hi,
>
>   Anyone have suggestions for affordable 90 and 120 degree 5.3ghz
> sector
>   (horizontal polarity is preferred) antennas?
>
>   thanks,
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>
>   
>
> 
>   
>   WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>   http://signup.wispa.org/
>   
>
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Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors

[Travis Johnson]

MT with SR5 at the AP and WLM54AG-23 at the client.

Tested on two different towers with 5 clients on each. Same results
with both locations.

I have used the PacWireless 5.8ghz 2ft dishes at 5.3ghz and only saw a
2db difference (at max)... so I figured because the sectors were spec'd
down to 5.4ghz that 5.3ghz wouldn't be a problem... but giving up 5db
(only on 1 side of the link too, which is weird) is a lot. :(

Travis
Microserv

Gino Villarini wrote:

  What radios?

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 7:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors

Ya, that's what I thought as well... so we deployed about 15 of them on 
tower sites... and then I did a test by switching customers from 5.3ghz 
to 5.8ghz (just changing the channel on the radios, with everything else

the same) and we see a 3-5db difference. :(

Travis
Microserv

Gino Villarini wrote:
  
  
Using a 5.4 - 5.8 sector on 5.3 wont be much of a problem ...maybe
loosing .5 db in gain?

 

Gino A. Villarini 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

  
  On
  
  
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:25 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors

 

PacWireless has the 5.4-5.8 horizontal sectors for $200... and they

  
  are
  
  
working on a 4.9-5.8ghz version, but not available right now. :(

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 

Define affordable?
 
I used Radio Waves for my only 5 gig sectors (we're reserving 5 gig

  
  for
  
  
high 
end customers).  $600 each as I recall.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since
1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 
 
- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 ; "WISPA General List" 
  
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
 
 
  

	Hi,
	 
	Anyone have suggestions for affordable 90 and 120 degree 5.3ghz
sector
	(horizontal polarity is preferred) antennas?
	 
	thanks,
	 
	Travis
	Microserv
	 
	 
	


  
  
  
  

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[WISPA] RB333

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Just wanted to share some useful information about the Mikrotik RB333 
vs. RB532. We recently replaced an RB532 that had failed with a RB333 
for a backhaul link. What we did not realize until a week after the 
replacement was that the RB333 was rebooting about every 4-6 hours. We 
monitor each radio with SNMP, we monitor the tower site with SNMP and 
Smokeping, and yet we never saw a problem. Why? Because the RB333 boots 
up so fast, that even our WhatsUp monitor system never caught it down 
(and it pings every 1 minute).

Just doing a quick test, it looks like the RB333 will boot up from power 
up in under 10 seconds. Which is very nice, but also made it hard to 
catch a board that is having problems.

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors

[Travis Johnson]

Ya, that's what I thought as well... so we deployed about 15 of them on 
tower sites... and then I did a test by switching customers from 5.3ghz 
to 5.8ghz (just changing the channel on the radios, with everything else 
the same) and we see a 3-5db difference. :(

Travis
Microserv

Gino Villarini wrote:
> Using a 5.4 - 5.8 sector on 5.3 wont be much of a problem ...maybe
> loosing .5 db in gain?
>
>  
>
> Gino A. Villarini 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 
>
> 
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:25 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>
>  
>
> PacWireless has the 5.4-5.8 horizontal sectors for $200... and they are
> working on a 4.9-5.8ghz version, but not available right now. :(
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 
>
> Define affordable?
>  
> I used Radio Waves for my only 5 gig sectors (we're reserving 5 gig for
> high 
> end customers).  $600 each as I recall.
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since
> 1999!
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>  
>  
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; "WISPA General List" 
>  <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> 
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:37 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors
>  
>  
>   
>
>   Hi,
>
>   Anyone have suggestions for affordable 90 and 120 degree 5.3ghz
> sector
>   (horizontal polarity is preferred) antennas?
>
>   thanks,
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>
>   
> 
> 
>   WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>   http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors

[Travis Johnson]

PacWireless has the 5.4-5.8 horizontal sectors for $200... and they are
working on a 4.9-5.8ghz version, but not available right now. :(

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

  Define affordable?

I used Radio Waves for my only 5 gig sectors (we're reserving 5 gig for high 
end customers).  $600 each as I recall.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 

Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: [WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors


  
  
Hi,

Anyone have suggestions for affordable 90 and 120 degree 5.3ghz sector
(horizontal polarity is preferred) antennas?

thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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[WISPA] 5.3ghz sectors

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Anyone have suggestions for affordable 90 and 120 degree 5.3ghz sector 
(horizontal polarity is preferred) antennas?

thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] R52H WOES

[Travis Johnson]

Mac,

I have to step in here and say that Frank was NOT so nice and kind when
I first reported this issue LAST week. In fact, he basically said we
didn't know what we were talking about and asked "how we tested them".
Now that everyone else is seeing the problem, he has come forward and
also sent me a return UPS label.

We are using SR5 cards for the AP's. They have been rock solid on many
of our point to point links for several years, so we are going to use
those on all of our AP's.

Travis
Microserv

Mac Dearman wrote:

  I just finished testing these radios and 50% of them were bad. One was DOA
and the others were down anywhere from -10db rx to 
 -20db on the Tx side. One was bad on both sides. 

What are we going to turn to for replacement? I have 3 new towers dressed
out needing nothing but RADIOS I guess the old faithful CM9 will work
since it runs about half of my network now in 5.xGHz.

I must add that Frank Keeney (Pasadena Networks) has already sent me a
return shipping label for the bad radios!! www.wlanparts.com is on the ball
with GREAT customer service!!

THANKS FRANK! And thanks for the great pricing too!! You have earned a
regular customer here today!! (that's me)

Mac







  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 10:05 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bumblebee R52H WOES

Mac,

The last shipment of R52H cards we got (15 total), 11 of them were bad.
The TX power was down 20db.

We tested them by setting up an AP with just a 3ft LMR cable attached
and connecting to it in the office. When we would go into the Signal
section for the connection, one side would be down 20-25db from the
other. :(

Travis
Microserv

Mac Dearman wrote:


   Someone on list a while back posted a device they were using to test
  

their


  radios and the signal they were emitting. What was that device name
  

and


  price?

 Some of these R52H radios seem to be killing me. I am seeing all
  

kinds of


  weird issues like deafness or being mute. I have talked to one other
  

person


  this morning that has seen multiple failures on these radios (as I
  

have)


  even though no one seems to be reporting these problems to my
  

supplier since


  they claim they haven't heard of any issues. I am sure my supplier
  

will


  gladly replace these radios, but before I ship them back (even though
  

I know


  they are defective) I would love to be able to test them.


Thanks folks,
Mac



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Re: [WISPA] Bumblebee???? R52H WOES

[Travis Johnson]

These came from Pasadena Networks (wlanparts.com) and I reported it. He
claims nobody else has said anything (yet).

Travis
Microserv

Mac Dearman wrote:

  Thanks Travis!

  Yeah - that's how we have been testing them too before we take them out
and hang them on a tower. I just got twenty more in this morning and about
to test them. The last batch of twenty a couple weeks ago caught us off
guard and we built out two new tower sites only to realize that hardly
nothing in 5.xGHz worked or would make link. 

Can I ask if you told your supplier about this and when? I wonder if we are
buying from the same place. Wisp-router???

Thanks,
Mac





  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 10:05 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bumblebee R52H WOES

Mac,

The last shipment of R52H cards we got (15 total), 11 of them were bad.
The TX power was down 20db.

We tested them by setting up an AP with just a 3ft LMR cable attached
and connecting to it in the office. When we would go into the Signal
section for the connection, one side would be down 20-25db from the
other. :(

Travis
Microserv

Mac Dearman wrote:


   Someone on list a while back posted a device they were using to test
  

their


  radios and the signal they were emitting. What was that device name
  

and


  price?

 Some of these R52H radios seem to be killing me. I am seeing all
  

kinds of


  weird issues like deafness or being mute. I have talked to one other
  

person


  this morning that has seen multiple failures on these radios (as I
  

have)


  even though no one seems to be reporting these problems to my
  

supplier since


  they claim they haven't heard of any issues. I am sure my supplier
  

will


  gladly replace these radios, but before I ship them back (even though
  

I know


  they are defective) I would love to be able to test them.


Thanks folks,
Mac



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Re: [WISPA] Bumblebee???? R52H WOES

[Travis Johnson]

Mac,

The last shipment of R52H cards we got (15 total), 11 of them were bad. 
The TX power was down 20db.

We tested them by setting up an AP with just a 3ft LMR cable attached 
and connecting to it in the office. When we would go into the Signal 
section for the connection, one side would be down 20-25db from the 
other. :(

Travis
Microserv

Mac Dearman wrote:
>  Someone on list a while back posted a device they were using to test their
> radios and the signal they were emitting. What was that device name and
> price?
>
>  Some of these R52H radios seem to be killing me. I am seeing all kinds of
> weird issues like deafness or being mute. I have talked to one other person
> this morning that has seen multiple failures on these radios (as I have)
> even though no one seems to be reporting these problems to my supplier since
> they claim they haven't heard of any issues. I am sure my supplier will
> gladly replace these radios, but before I ship them back (even though I know
> they are defective) I would love to be able to test them.
>
>
> Thanks folks,
> Mac
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Any Trango Command Line Experts?

[Travis Johnson]

Try:

#> eth link 10FDX

I think it's case sensitive.

Travis
Microserv

Jenco Wireless wrote:

  
 Hi.  I can't for the life of me remember how to change a Trango's
Ethernet link speed.  I need to set it to 10hdx due to interference related
to icing.  Real nice weather here in Ohio - freezing rain and lightning all
in one package :-)


  
  
Here is where I am at:

from telnet window, typing "eth link 10fdx" and it returns:

Eth0 100FDX detected
?

I have tried every combination I can think of.  Any suggestions would be
appreciated!!

Thanks,

Brad H
(Jenco Wireless, LLC)



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[WISPA] stock

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Does anyone have the PacWireless SAH58-120-16-WB antennas in stock?

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] Motherboards and cases

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Not sure why you would need lots of memory in a Mikrotik router? I have
a router pushing 200Mbps that runs on less than 128MB of RAM.

We have used the Intel Server boards with good success.

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

  I just use small Dell servers (sc 820 or such) with lots of memory.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 5:49 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Motherboards and cases


  
  
I know this has been discussed, but I can not find any of the threads.
What are some good motherboards and cases for building high performance
Mikrotik routers?

-- 
Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays Networking, LLC
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
Mikrotik Advanced Certified
www.nwwnet.net
(765) 855-1060




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[WISPA] outdoor CAT5

[Travis Johnson]

Any good, affordable sources for outdoor CAT5?

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"

[Travis Johnson]

Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be 
telling me what I can and can't do.

I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't 
think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company.

Travis
Microserv

Brad Belton wrote:
> I see this as a good thing.  We don't really care what our users do with the
> bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal.  Bandwidth hungry
> applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy.
> I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line!
>
> I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL
> companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC
> is proposing.
>
> If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating
> the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin
> to start raising their prices.  Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing
> for us.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of George Rogato
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service
> providers"
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation;_ylt
> =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF
>
> Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet 
> service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like 
> Web surfing, over others, like file sharing.
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] MT tools

[Travis Johnson]

I have already emailed Mikrotik a week ago, and opened a new thread on
their forum. They should at least get the idea of what I need and
develop a test that is specific to their wireless.

I do NOT want this to turn into a year long project.

Travis


Tom DeReggi wrote:

  Butch,

You have misunderstood.  (you must have been reading top down)

I was responding to Dennis Burgess's post, who was showing interest in 
possibly getting involved to ask Mikrotik on our behalf, but first asked for 
clarification on exactly what features we wanted.

Its not as clear cut as just asking for something. We ourselves need to be 
clear about what we want. These are very technical issues. If it were easy, 
it would have already been done. My post brought up real technical traits 
that needed to be considered in defining what was best to ask for. You of 
all people as a consultant should understand these technical differences. 
I'm not a know-it-all Lone Ranger, I also am looking for feedback from 
others that may have ideas. Going to MT with an unrealistic request or one 
that was not fully thought out, would just be a waste of their time.

This thread was not meant to point out inferiorities in a protocol or 
product. It was meant to find ways for innovation and improvement. Believe 
me, when I got something to ask for, or something to complain about, I have 
no problem going direct to the manufacturer in a flash, but I need help from 
my peers for developing ideas.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools


  
  
On Sun, 17 Feb 2008, Tom DeReggi wrote:



  I concur with Travis, on what we'd like to see happen, but... I'd
add that what he asks for may not be realistic or meaningful for
MT.
  

As I said several days ago...you will NOT see this function unless
you ask MikroTik.  [EMAIL PROTECTED].  It does not currently
exist in the way you say you want it.  IF you want this, then you
must ask for it.  There are several options I presented for getting
some of the data, but you didn't like that idea either.  Sounds to
me like you are just wanting to complain.

-- 

*Butch Evans *Professional Network Consultation *
*Network Engineering *MikroTik RouterOS*
*573-276-2879 *ImageStream   *
*http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
*Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks*




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Re: [WISPA] MT tools

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I thought I had already posted what I would like to see:

100 packets passed each direction, 10 times (1600 byte packets).

Report back:

Distance of link
Error rate going from AP to CPE (in % as well as actual packet counts)
Error rate going from CPE to AP (in % as well as actual packet counts)
Throughput of the link

Here is a sample test of a Trango AP to SU linktest:

0  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU
RxErr] 0  504 ms  5079 Kbps
1  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU
RxErr] 0  504 ms  5079 Kbps
2  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 100 [SU
RxErr] 0  504 ms  5079 Kbps
3  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU
RxErr] 0  504 ms  5079 Kbps
4  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU
RxErr] 0  504 ms  5079 Kbps
5  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU
RxErr] 0  504 ms  5079 Kbps
6  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 100 [SU
RxErr] 0  504 ms  5079 Kbps
7  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU
RxErr] 0  504 ms  5079 Kbps
8  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU
RxErr] 0  504 ms  5079 Kbps
9  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 100 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU
RxErr] 0  504 ms  5079 Kbps

[AP Total nTx]    1000 pkts
[AP Total nRx]    1000 pkts
[AP Total nRxErr] 0 pkts

[SU Total nTx]    1000 pkts
[SU Total nRx]    988 pkts
[SU Total nRxErr] 0 pkts

[AP to SU Error Rate] 1.20 %
[SU to AP Error Rate] 0.00 %

[Avg of Throughput]   5079 Kbps

Something like this (but in a graphical table inside of winbox) would
be perfect. :)

Travis
Microserv

Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc wrote:

  I work very closely with Mikrotik and I do understand what you are saying.
Lets do this...

What is the exact feature and results that we are looking for.

The reason why I ask, is they will ask!  

This is what I got so far:

10 second test
Test reliability of link
Overall throughput of the link
Packet loss, if any, on the link
Overall link quality

All of this calculated into ?  a Percent?   A number?  

Dennis M. Burgess
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri
--WISP/Network Support Services--
+1 314-686-1302


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 1:49 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools

I guess the idea is that MT might be monitoring these lists.
But you are right, the best approach might be to Email MT directly.
But the truth is, Emailing support by an individual will likely not get 
results.
Manufacturers tend to want to see numerous individuals interested in the 
command or feature to jsutify the effort doing it.
By discussing these flaws on a list, is to get all the members familiar with

why these tools are needed, and possibly more members will add additional 
support inquiriies to request these improvements.

For one, I'd like to see the Mikrotik Consultants get involved in asking for

these features. If the consultants that specialize in the product don't 
understand what we need, its not that likely that the manufacurer would 
either. Consultants that represent the manufacturer have much more pull with

them, and a better relationship to discuss these things, and most 
importantly credabilty, to effect change.

With Trango, we effect change, and the reason is that we deal direct with 
the manufacturer and they hear us.  With channel support models, like 
Microtik offers, the manufacturer can lose touch with the end customer. It 
becomes an even worse problem when the manufacturer sells super cheap (which

we like), and the volume grows and each end user's opinion becomes less 
relevent.

One thing I'm very happy about was Mikrotik's support joining as a WISPA 
vendor member.  (Butch, possibly you one also ?)
I believe this gets WISP and Manufacturer closer in touch.

I'm hoping that these threads are not misinterpretted as manufacturer 
bashing, but interpretted as communication, that will effect product 
improvements.
The truth is MT probably offers better testing tools than most WIFI product 
out there.  But there is still room for improvements.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT tools


  
  
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote:



  What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the
Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It
would test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would
then report:
  

have you emailed [EMAIL PROTECTED] with this suggestion?  I see
what you are wanting

Re: [WISPA] MT tools

[Travis Johnson]

I would be willing to pay for it, if it does what I want... :)

Travis
Microserv

Randy Cosby wrote:

  Good point.  Can you give an estimate of what you think it would cost?  
Anyone else out there interested enough in the feature to put a "bounty" 
on it, so a bunch of us can pitch in, Butch can get paid, and it can be 
released to the community?

Personally, I do not use mikrotik for wireless (yet) but would be 
willing to pitch in.

Randy


Butch Evans wrote:
  
  
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008, Randy Cosby wrote:

  


  Not having played with scripting much, is this something that could 
be scripted?

  

Hmm...I'll play with this a bit.  Of course, as a consultant, 
whether the result of the work will turn out to be "free" is a 
function of how much time it takes to develop, if it can even be 
done.  I am fairly confident that it can be done (sort of).

  

  
  
  






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[WISPA] pcb

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Who sells the plastic 3M PCB with adhesive backing? Like for mounting 
routerboards inside cases?

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] MT tools

[Travis Johnson]

Yes... but RSSI only shows so much. We have links with good RSSI that
have a high error rates. Even the CCQ in MT doesn't tell you
everything, because there is no real "magic" number... is all relative.

Travis

George Rogato wrote:

  Don't you see real time active rissi etc when you look into the ap's 
interface listing all the clients?


Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the 
Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It would 
test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would then report:

distance of the link (based on time calculations)
error rate going from AP to CPE (%)
error rate going from CPE to AP (%)
Calculated throughput based on those results

This simple tool has proven invaluable with our Trango system. Our 1st 
level techs can login to the AP and do a "linktest" on a customer's 
radio and know in 10 seconds if there is an RF problem or something 
else. Having to look at CCQ numbers, packet frames vs. hardware frames, 
etc. is way too complicated for a 1st level tech.

Yes, we monitor and graph signal levels, bytes, packets, errors, etc. on 
every customer we have now... but that simple 10 second test makes life 
much, much easier.

Travis
Microserv

Butch Evans wrote:
    

  On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote:

  
  
  
With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" 
that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and 
measuring on both sides the loss:


  
  With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well.  You 
can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you 
have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, 
frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames.  The 
difference between packets and frames is loss on the link.  I agree 
that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the 
information is available.  The packet data is available via snmp as 
well, though the hardware frame data is not.  You can get (from 
snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link 
as well as other interfaces.  The OID is found with: "/interface 
print oid".  Is this what you are wanting?

  
  






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Re: [WISPA] 30megs @ 10MHz

[Travis Johnson]

Are you using compression on the link?

I've never heard of a product that can deliver 3:1 on bandwidth vs. 
spectrum.

Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:
> http://www.oregonfast.net/gofast/30megs/30megs.JPG
>
> This afternoon while I was at the shop I noticed the internet was very 
> sluggish. So I opened up an ssh session into the tower ap that is 
> serving  my shop. It was saying 3,900 to 4,000 something kbps in the 
> interface. I was thinking for a second, hey thats BYTES not bits in 
> star, 32 megs.
>
> Not sure who was pushing that much traffic, maybe a virus infected pc on 
> the bench.
>
> But this was a Star-os war4 at 5.8 10MHz wide channel PtP
>
>   



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Re: [WISPA] MT tools

[Travis Johnson]

What I really want is a way to right-click on an entry in the
Registration table and have an option that says "Linktest". It would
test sending 100 packets each direction, 10 times. It would then report:

distance of the link (based on time calculations)
error rate going from AP to CPE (%)
error rate going from CPE to AP (%)
Calculated throughput based on those results

This simple tool has proven invaluable with our Trango system. Our 1st
level techs can login to the AP and do a "linktest" on a customer's
radio and know in 10 seconds if there is an RF problem or something
else. Having to look at CCQ numbers, packet frames vs. hardware frames,
etc. is way too complicated for a 1st level tech.

Yes, we monitor and graph signal levels, bytes, packets, errors, etc.
on every customer we have now... but that simple 10 second test makes
life much, much easier.

Travis
Microserv

Butch Evans wrote:

  On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Travis Johnson wrote:

  
  
With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" 
that shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and 
measuring on both sides the loss:

  
  
With Mikrotik, you have stats for the wireless link as well.  You 
can double-click an entry under WIRELESS->Registration-Table and you 
have a stats tab that will show you tx and rx packets, bytes, 
frames, frame bytes, hardware frame bytes and frames.  The 
difference between packets and frames is loss on the link.  I agree 
that it would be nice to have a calculated value displayed, but the 
information is available.  The packet data is available via snmp as 
well, though the hardware frame data is not.  You can get (from 
snmp) the OID that includes errors (in and out) on the wireless link 
as well as other interfaces.  The OID is found with: "/interface 
print oid".  Is this what you are wanting?

  






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Re: [WISPA] MT tools

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

With a product like Trango, they have a utility called "linktest" that
shows packet loss after sending ten sets of 100 packets and measuring
on both sides the loss:

[suid] 2 [pkt len] 1600 bytes [# of pkts per cycle] 100 [cycle] 10

0  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 96 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU
RxErr] 0  501 ms  5007 Kbps
1  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 93 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU
RxErr] 0  501 ms  4930 Kbps
2  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 98 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU
RxErr] 0  501 ms  5058 Kbps
3  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 97 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 97 [SU
RxErr] 0  501 ms  5033 Kbps
4  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 94 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 97 [SU
RxErr] 0  500 ms  4966 Kbps
5  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 92 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 96 [SU
RxErr] 0  500 ms  4915 Kbps
6  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 96 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 100 [SU
RxErr] 0  501 ms  5007 Kbps
7  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 97 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU
RxErr] 0  500 ms  5043 Kbps
8  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 96 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 98 [SU
RxErr] 0  500 ms  5017 Kbps
9  [AP Tx] 100 [AP Rx] 98 [AP RxErr] 0  [SU Tx] 100 [SU Rx] 99 [SU
RxErr] 0  500 ms  5068 Kbps

[AP Total nTx]    1000 pkts
[AP Total nRx]    957 pkts
[AP Total nRxErr] 0 pkts

[SU Total nTx]    1000 pkts
[SU Total nRx]    981 pkts
[SU Total nRxErr] 0 pkts

[AP to SU Error Rate] 1.90 %
[SU to AP Error Rate] 4.30 %

[Avg of Throughput]   5004 Kbps

Something like this would be VERY helpful if you could right-click on
the wireless link in the registrations tab and run something like this.
:)

Travis
Microserv

Anthony Will wrote:

  Under tools in winbox there are several solutions from ping floods to 
torch (a per stream traffic analyzer), under the interface you can look 
at the status tab to get CCQ (quality) readings to exactly how much 
traffic is being compressed by hardware data compression.  In a terminal 
it would be under /tool or /interface wireless.
Is there something specific you are looking for?

Anthony Will
Broadband Corp.
http://www.broadband-mn.com



Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc wrote:
  
  
What kind of information do you need?


Dennis M. Burgess
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri
--WISP/Network Support Services--
+1 314-686-1302


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:52 PM
To: WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WISPA] MT tools

Hi,

Has anyone found any good tools to do troubleshooting on Mikrotik 
wireless links? Many other vendors provide tools (i.e. Trango has "su 
ping", "testrflink" and "linktest") that allow testing of an individual 
wireless link directly from the AP. The only thing I have found with 
Mikrotik is their bandwidth test and it doesn't show much information.

Any help or ideas are appreciated.

Travis
Microserv




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[WISPA] MT tools

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Has anyone found any good tools to do troubleshooting on Mikrotik 
wireless links? Many other vendors provide tools (i.e. Trango has "su 
ping", "testrflink" and "linktest") that allow testing of an individual 
wireless link directly from the AP. The only thing I have found with 
Mikrotik is their bandwidth test and it doesn't show much information.

Any help or ideas are appreciated.

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] switch ports

[Travis Johnson]

2424m

Cameron Kilton wrote:

  What model of procurve switches are you using at these sites which are
affected? 

Thank You,
Cameron Kilton
Broadband Department
Assistant Systems Administrator
Midcoast Internet Solutions
http://www.midcoast.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(207)594-8277 ext. 108
--
High speed internet access on Islands? Most ISPs would say YOU'RE crazy,
we'll say "When do you want it?"
http://www.midcoast.com/mis/broadband/wireless/ 
---

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] switch ports

They are inside, in a controlled environment. We have 40 or so switches 
like this, and it only seems to happen at 2 or 3 locations (the most 
remote ones, of course).

Travis

Larry Yunker wrote:
  
  
Travis,

Is the switch in a temperature / humidity controlled environment or is

  
  it
  
  
sitting outside in a relatively uncontrolled NEMA enclosure?  I've

  
  seen a
  
  
lot of switches die during cold weather when run in NEMA boxes.

  
  Keeping the
  
  
box above freezing seems to resolve the issue in most cases.

Larry


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

  
  On
  
  
    Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:00 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] switch ports

Hi,

Recently we have starting having ports on our ethernet switches blow 
out. This is during the middle of winter, when there is no lightning

  
  or 
  
  
any other static electricity. We simply move to a different port on

  
  the 
  
  
switch and everything is fine.

We have protected PoE injectors (Pacific Wireless) with grounded power

  
  
  
  
cords. We are using HP Procurve switches. We usually have a 3ft patch 
cord between the injector and switch.

Is there any particular brand of managed switch that handles this type

  
  
  
  
of issue better than any others?

Travis
Microserv




  
  

  
  

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Re: [WISPA] switch ports

[Travis Johnson]

They are inside, in a controlled environment. We have 40 or so switches 
like this, and it only seems to happen at 2 or 3 locations (the most 
remote ones, of course).

Travis

Larry Yunker wrote:
> Travis,
>
> Is the switch in a temperature / humidity controlled environment or is it
> sitting outside in a relatively uncontrolled NEMA enclosure?  I've seen a
> lot of switches die during cold weather when run in NEMA boxes.  Keeping the
> box above freezing seems to resolve the issue in most cases.
>
> Larry
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:00 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] switch ports
>
> Hi,
>
> Recently we have starting having ports on our ethernet switches blow 
> out. This is during the middle of winter, when there is no lightning or 
> any other static electricity. We simply move to a different port on the 
> switch and everything is fine.
>
> We have protected PoE injectors (Pacific Wireless) with grounded power 
> cords. We are using HP Procurve switches. We usually have a 3ft patch 
> cord between the injector and switch.
>
> Is there any particular brand of managed switch that handles this type 
> of issue better than any others?
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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>   



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Re: [WISPA] switch ports

[Travis Johnson]

Yes, they are in racks. I don't think the switches even have an earth 
ground connection, just grounded through the power.

Travis

Justin S. Wilson wrote:
> Are the switchesin racks? Are both the rack and the switch at common ground?
>
> Justin
>
>
> ---
> Justin S. Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> CCNA - Mikrotik Advanced Certified - CCNT
> http://www.mtin.net
> http://j2sw.mtin.net
> http://www.ndwave.com  
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:59 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List 
> Subject: [WISPA] switch ports
>
> Hi,
>
> Recently we have starting having ports on our ethernet switches blow 
> out. This is during the middle of winter, when there is no lightning or 
> any other static electricity. We simply move to a different port on the 
> switch and everything is fine.
>
> We have protected PoE injectors (Pacific Wireless) with grounded power 
> cords. We are using HP Procurve switches. We usually have a 3ft patch 
> cord between the injector and switch.
>
> Is there any particular brand of managed switch that handles this type 
> of issue better than any others?
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
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>
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[WISPA] switch ports

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Recently we have starting having ports on our ethernet switches blow 
out. This is during the middle of winter, when there is no lightning or 
any other static electricity. We simply move to a different port on the 
switch and everything is fine.

We have protected PoE injectors (Pacific Wireless) with grounded power 
cords. We are using HP Procurve switches. We usually have a 3ft patch 
cord between the injector and switch.

Is there any particular brand of managed switch that handles this type 
of issue better than any others?

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I just upgraded another link that we have Celeron 1.5ghz boards on each
side... going 2 miles:

20mhz channel = 33.2Mbps one direction
40mhz channel = 56.9Mbps one direction

I have to say I am truly impressed if the number Matt posted below is
correct (and not a typo or something). Getting 45Mbps from 20mhz of
spectrum is very impressive. Are you using compression on these links?

Travis
Microserv

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

  Sounds good. In the next week or two (depends on weather) I will be
changing my main links. Good to have some numbers to compare against.
I will make a note to post my numbers (P4 to RB133). What about signal
levels and mpci cards used? Now if MT would allow different sized
NStream2 setups (say 40/5) I would be very happy. Why use all 40/20/10
on the return side, I push 10mbit out but only ~1mb or so back.


On 2/9/08, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
 Hi,

 5.3ghz, 3 miles, 5mhz channel, 7.8Mbps one direction
 5.3ghz, 3 miles, 40mhz channel, 52.3Mbps one direction

 All these tests are with Nstreme on, but no framer policy. I know people
have squeezed more by playing with the framer settings, but we have never
needed to do that.

 I'm sure more CPU would help some... but I have no idea how much. I know
even the RB333 boards (same price as the RB532) have twice the CPU power as
the RB532s... and I have some of those on the way already. ;)

 Travis
 Microserv


 Jeromie Reeves wrote:
 What about 5mhz channels? Do you have enough signal to try 40 mhz? I
am about to replace 5 links with MT 5.8. Does more CPU help on the
sending side, say P4 to RB133/333.

On 2/9/08, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 Here is a real world MT test running RB532's (333mhz) with v3.2 OS:

 5.3ghz, 3 miles, 10mhz channel, 18.3Mbps one direction
 5.8ghz, 9 miles, 20mhz channel, 27.3Mbps one direction

 A more comparable test would be using the new MT RB600 units (as they are
almost exactly the same price as the WAR4 boards). I will get a couple
ordered and deployed so we can do some comparable testing. :)

 Travis
 Microserv

 Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
 OK, here are some real world examples:

5.3ghz 40mhz channel, 8.5 miles. WAR4/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless
Antennas. 50meg one way.
5.7ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles. WAR2/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless
Antennas. 45meg one way (CPU maxes out on WAR2s)
5.7ghz 10mhz channel, 42 miles WAR4/SR5 attached to 34db Radiowaves
Antennas. 18meg one way.
FDD 5.2ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 29db
Pacwireless/21db MTI panel.
 5.8ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 21db
MTI Panel/29db Pacwireless 30 down, 30 up

for comparison: Motorola Gemini Lite (30meg bh) on the same link - 3meg
down, 3 up

We have several RB532 backhauls in the air, and even with all the
optimization we can do to them, we never get better than 20 meg in one
direction. Replacing the RB532s with WAR2s (266mhz CPU, comparable to
an RB532) nearly doubles the speed.

On comparable hardware, I have not come across ANY Mikrotik system that
will keep up with StarOS when it comes to dedicated backhaul.

Matt Larsen
Inventive Media


Mark Nash wrote:


 5.3GHz 40MHz channel, 1.5 miles. WAR4-METRO/SR5 inside 24dbi RooTennas.
Testing beyond each ethernet port. 2 weeks non-stop stress-testing after we
installed and before we deployed gave us 70 megs one way. The MRTG graph
looked like a solid block without any deviation.

Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com
- Original Message -
From: "Mac Dearman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS





 I haven't seen those results, but I have seen 12MbpsFDX with a -63 on both
sides running Nstream2. If we are going to talk REAL THROUGHPUT - - lets
get
real and everyone use real figures. I ain't talking bench test and "maybe"
if I hold one hand in the air, twist my lips standing on one leg.

I mean real world - whatcha getting?? Whatcha see and is it a bench test
or
are you in the real WISP world? :)


Mac










 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

50 both ways with N-Stream dual and Turbo mode...

Dennis M. Burgess
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri
--WISP/Network Support Services--
+1 314-686-1302


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

Mikrotik can do 70 megs or more over 40 MHz 

Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

[Travis Johnson]

Mac,

I have been running in production links and GigE routers since 3.0rc13. 
Our main edge router is MT v3.1 right now and is running perfectly. I 
have upgraded about 10 of our RB532's with v3.2 and it has been perfect 
so far. Some of the new statistics are really cool (like the Potential 
Throughput display for each connected radio, running "pseudobridge" 
instead of WDS, etc.)

Travis
Microserv

Mac Dearman wrote:
> Travis,
>
>  
>
> Do you know anyone that has the new MT v3.x in a production environment?
> I have two RB532's that were just configured using Nstream and I am looking
> at putting them in a work situation. I too am ordering some 333 and RB600's
> if I can find some tonight. The RB532's that are ready to roll are actually
> seeing 12.5Mbps FDX with ~62/~63 - - 
>
>  
>
>Let me know how you fair and I will keep you informed.
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mac
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 10:40 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS
>
>  
>
> Hi,
>
> 5.3ghz, 3 miles, 5mhz channel, 7.8Mbps one direction
> 5.3ghz, 3 miles, 40mhz channel, 52.3Mbps one direction
>
> All these tests are with Nstreme on, but no framer policy. I know people
> have squeezed more by playing with the framer settings, but we have never
> needed to do that.
>
> I'm sure more CPU would help some... but I have no idea how much. I know
> even the RB333 boards (same price as the RB532) have twice the CPU power as
> the RB532s... and I have some of those on the way already. ;)
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Jeromie Reeves wrote: 
>
> What about 5mhz channels? Do you have enough signal to try 40 mhz? I
> am about to replace 5 links with MT 5.8.   Does more CPU help on the
> sending side, say P4 to RB133/333.
>  
> On 2/9/08, Travis Johnson  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
>   
>
>  Here is a real world MT test running RB532's (333mhz) with v3.2 OS:
>  
>  5.3ghz, 3 miles, 10mhz channel, 18.3Mbps one direction
>  5.8ghz, 9 miles, 20mhz channel, 27.3Mbps one direction
>  
>  A more comparable test would be using the new MT RB600 units (as they are
> almost exactly the same price as the WAR4 boards). I will get a couple
> ordered and deployed so we can do some comparable testing. :)
>  
>  Travis
>  Microserv
>  
>  Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
>  OK, here are some real world examples:
>  
> 5.3ghz 40mhz channel, 8.5 miles. WAR4/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless
> Antennas. 50meg one way.
> 5.7ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles. WAR2/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless
> Antennas. 45meg one way (CPU maxes out on WAR2s)
> 5.7ghz 10mhz channel, 42 miles WAR4/SR5 attached to 34db Radiowaves
> Antennas. 18meg one way.
> FDD 5.2ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 29db
> Pacwireless/21db MTI panel.
>  5.8ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 21db
> MTI Panel/29db Pacwireless 30 down, 30 up
>  
> for comparison: Motorola Gemini Lite (30meg bh) on the same link - 3meg
> down, 3 up
>  
> We have several RB532 backhauls in the air, and even with all the
> optimization we can do to them, we never get better than 20 meg in one
> direction. Replacing the RB532s with WAR2s (266mhz CPU, comparable to
> an RB532) nearly doubles the speed.
>  
> On comparable hardware, I have not come across ANY Mikrotik system that
> will keep up with StarOS when it comes to dedicated backhaul.
>  
> Matt Larsen
> Inventive Media
>  
>  
> Mark Nash wrote:
>  
>  
>  5.3GHz 40MHz channel, 1.5 miles. WAR4-METRO/SR5 inside 24dbi RooTennas.
> Testing beyond each ethernet port. 2 weeks non-stop stress-testing after we
> installed and before we deployed gave us 70 megs one way. The MRTG graph
> looked like a solid block without any deviation.
>  
> Mark Nash
> UnwiredWest
> 78 Centennial Loop
> Suite E
> Eugene, OR 97401
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
> http://www.unwiredwest.com
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mac Dearman"  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'WISPA General List'"  <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> 
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  I haven't seen those results, but I have seen 12MbpsFDX with a -63 on both
> sides running Nstream2. If we are going to talk REAL THROUGHPUT - - lets
> get
> real and everyone use real figures. I ain't talking bench test and "maybe"
> if I hold one h

Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

[Travis Johnson]

Can't you just "bond" the two wireless cards and get the throughput you
want that way?

Travis
Microserv

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

  Sounds good. In the next week or two (depends on weather) I will be
changing my main links. Good to have some numbers to compare against.
I will make a note to post my numbers (P4 to RB133). What about signal
levels and mpci cards used? Now if MT would allow different sized
NStream2 setups (say 40/5) I would be very happy. Why use all 40/20/10
on the return side, I push 10mbit out but only ~1mb or so back.


On 2/9/08, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
 Hi,

 5.3ghz, 3 miles, 5mhz channel, 7.8Mbps one direction
 5.3ghz, 3 miles, 40mhz channel, 52.3Mbps one direction

 All these tests are with Nstreme on, but no framer policy. I know people
have squeezed more by playing with the framer settings, but we have never
needed to do that.

 I'm sure more CPU would help some... but I have no idea how much. I know
even the RB333 boards (same price as the RB532) have twice the CPU power as
the RB532s... and I have some of those on the way already. ;)

 Travis
 Microserv


 Jeromie Reeves wrote:
 What about 5mhz channels? Do you have enough signal to try 40 mhz? I
am about to replace 5 links with MT 5.8. Does more CPU help on the
sending side, say P4 to RB133/333.

On 2/9/08, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 Here is a real world MT test running RB532's (333mhz) with v3.2 OS:

 5.3ghz, 3 miles, 10mhz channel, 18.3Mbps one direction
 5.8ghz, 9 miles, 20mhz channel, 27.3Mbps one direction

 A more comparable test would be using the new MT RB600 units (as they are
almost exactly the same price as the WAR4 boards). I will get a couple
ordered and deployed so we can do some comparable testing. :)

 Travis
 Microserv

 Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
 OK, here are some real world examples:

5.3ghz 40mhz channel, 8.5 miles. WAR4/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless
Antennas. 50meg one way.
5.7ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles. WAR2/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless
Antennas. 45meg one way (CPU maxes out on WAR2s)
5.7ghz 10mhz channel, 42 miles WAR4/SR5 attached to 34db Radiowaves
Antennas. 18meg one way.
FDD 5.2ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 29db
Pacwireless/21db MTI panel.
 5.8ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 21db
MTI Panel/29db Pacwireless 30 down, 30 up

for comparison: Motorola Gemini Lite (30meg bh) on the same link - 3meg
down, 3 up

We have several RB532 backhauls in the air, and even with all the
optimization we can do to them, we never get better than 20 meg in one
direction. Replacing the RB532s with WAR2s (266mhz CPU, comparable to
an RB532) nearly doubles the speed.

On comparable hardware, I have not come across ANY Mikrotik system that
will keep up with StarOS when it comes to dedicated backhaul.

Matt Larsen
Inventive Media


Mark Nash wrote:


 5.3GHz 40MHz channel, 1.5 miles. WAR4-METRO/SR5 inside 24dbi RooTennas.
Testing beyond each ethernet port. 2 weeks non-stop stress-testing after we
installed and before we deployed gave us 70 megs one way. The MRTG graph
looked like a solid block without any deviation.

Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com
- Original Message -
From: "Mac Dearman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS





 I haven't seen those results, but I have seen 12MbpsFDX with a -63 on both
sides running Nstream2. If we are going to talk REAL THROUGHPUT - - lets
get
real and everyone use real figures. I ain't talking bench test and "maybe"
if I hold one hand in the air, twist my lips standing on one leg.

I mean real world - whatcha getting?? Whatcha see and is it a bench test
or
are you in the real WISP world? :)


Mac










 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

50 both ways with N-Stream dual and Turbo mode...

Dennis M. Burgess
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri
--WISP/Network Support Services--
+1 314-686-1302


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

Mikrotik can do 70 megs or more over 40 MHz as well.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com






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Su

Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

5.3ghz, 3 miles, 5mhz channel, 7.8Mbps one direction
5.3ghz, 3 miles, 40mhz channel, 52.3Mbps one direction

All these tests are with Nstreme on, but no framer policy. I know
people have squeezed more by playing with the framer settings, but we
have never needed to do that.

I'm sure more CPU would help some... but I have no idea how much. I
know even the RB333 boards (same price as the RB532) have twice the CPU
power as the RB532s... and I have some of those on the way already. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

  What about 5mhz channels? Do you have enough signal to try 40 mhz? I
am about to replace 5 links with MT 5.8.   Does more CPU help on the
sending side, say P4 to RB133/333.

On 2/9/08, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
 Here is a real world MT test running RB532's (333mhz) with v3.2 OS:

 5.3ghz, 3 miles, 10mhz channel, 18.3Mbps one direction
 5.8ghz, 9 miles, 20mhz channel, 27.3Mbps one direction

 A more comparable test would be using the new MT RB600 units (as they are
almost exactly the same price as the WAR4 boards). I will get a couple
ordered and deployed so we can do some comparable testing. :)

 Travis
 Microserv

 Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
 OK, here are some real world examples:

5.3ghz 40mhz channel, 8.5 miles. WAR4/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless
Antennas. 50meg one way.
5.7ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles. WAR2/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless
Antennas. 45meg one way (CPU maxes out on WAR2s)
5.7ghz 10mhz channel, 42 miles WAR4/SR5 attached to 34db Radiowaves
Antennas. 18meg one way.
FDD 5.2ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 29db
Pacwireless/21db MTI panel.
 5.8ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 21db
MTI Panel/29db Pacwireless 30 down, 30 up

for comparison: Motorola Gemini Lite (30meg bh) on the same link - 3meg
down, 3 up

We have several RB532 backhauls in the air, and even with all the
optimization we can do to them, we never get better than 20 meg in one
direction. Replacing the RB532s with WAR2s (266mhz CPU, comparable to
an RB532) nearly doubles the speed.

On comparable hardware, I have not come across ANY Mikrotik system that
will keep up with StarOS when it comes to dedicated backhaul.

Matt Larsen
Inventive Media


Mark Nash wrote:


 5.3GHz 40MHz channel, 1.5 miles. WAR4-METRO/SR5 inside 24dbi RooTennas.
Testing beyond each ethernet port. 2 weeks non-stop stress-testing after we
installed and before we deployed gave us 70 megs one way. The MRTG graph
looked like a solid block without any deviation.

Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com
- Original Message -
From: "Mac Dearman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS





 I haven't seen those results, but I have seen 12MbpsFDX with a -63 on both
sides running Nstream2. If we are going to talk REAL THROUGHPUT - - lets
get
real and everyone use real figures. I ain't talking bench test and "maybe"
if I hold one hand in the air, twist my lips standing on one leg.

I mean real world - whatcha getting?? Whatcha see and is it a bench test
or
are you in the real WISP world? :)


Mac










 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

50 both ways with N-Stream dual and Turbo mode...

Dennis M. Burgess
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri
--WISP/Network Support Services--
+1 314-686-1302


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

Mikrotik can do 70 megs or more over 40 MHz as well.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com






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---

Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

[Travis Johnson]

Here is a real world MT test running RB532's (333mhz) with v3.2 OS:

5.3ghz, 3 miles, 10mhz channel, 18.3Mbps one direction
5.8ghz, 9 miles, 20mhz channel, 27.3Mbps one direction

A more comparable test would be using the new MT RB600 units (as they
are almost exactly the same price as the WAR4 boards). I will get a
couple ordered and deployed so we can do some comparable testing. :)

Travis
Microserv

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

  OK, here are some real world examples:

5.3ghz 40mhz channel, 8.5 miles.   WAR4/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless 
Antennas.50meg one way.
5.7ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles.WAR2/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless 
Antennas.   45meg one way (CPU maxes out on WAR2s)
5.7ghz 10mhz channel, 42 miles WAR4/SR5 attached to 34db Radiowaves 
Antennas.18meg one way.
FDD 5.2ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 29db 
Pacwireless/21db MTI panel. 
5.8ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 21db 
MTI Panel/29db Pacwireless  30 down, 30 up

for comparison:  Motorola Gemini Lite (30meg bh) on the same link - 3meg 
down, 3 up

We have several RB532 backhauls in the air, and even with all the 
optimization we can do to them, we never get better than 20 meg in one 
direction.  Replacing the RB532s with WAR2s (266mhz CPU, comparable to 
an RB532) nearly doubles the speed.

On comparable hardware, I have not come across ANY Mikrotik system that 
will keep up with StarOS when it comes to dedicated backhaul.   

Matt Larsen
Inventive Media


Mark Nash wrote:
  
  
5.3GHz 40MHz channel, 1.5 miles.   WAR4-METRO/SR5 inside 24dbi RooTennas. 
Testing beyond each ethernet port.  2 weeks non-stop stress-testing after we 
installed and before we deployed gave us 70 megs one way.  The MRTG graph 
looked like a solid block without any deviation.

Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Mac Dearman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS


  


  I haven't seen those results, but I have seen 12MbpsFDX with a -63 on both
sides running Nstream2. If we are going to talk REAL THROUGHPUT - - lets 
get
real and everyone use real figures. I ain't talking bench test and "maybe"
if I hold one hand in the air, twist my lips standing on one leg.

I mean real world - whatcha getting?? Whatcha see and is it a bench test 
or
are you in the real WISP world? :)


Mac








  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

50 both ways with N-Stream dual and Turbo mode...

Dennis M. Burgess
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri
--WISP/Network Support Services--
+1 314-686-1302


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

Mikrotik can do 70 megs or more over 40 MHz as well.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

  

  

  
  



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Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

[Travis Johnson]

Matt,

A quick question on your examples...

on the 10 mile link you are getting 45Mbps with 20Mhz, but on the
full-duplex link going the same distance, you are only getting 30Mbps.
Why is there a 50% loss when doing full-duplex?

Also, are you testing with TCP or UDP?

Travis
Microserv

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

  OK, here are some real world examples:

5.3ghz 40mhz channel, 8.5 miles.   WAR4/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless 
Antennas.50meg one way.
5.7ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles.WAR2/CM9 attached to 29db PacWireless 
Antennas.   45meg one way (CPU maxes out on WAR2s)
5.7ghz 10mhz channel, 42 miles WAR4/SR5 attached to 34db Radiowaves 
Antennas.18meg one way.
FDD 5.2ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 29db 
Pacwireless/21db MTI panel. 
5.8ghz 20mhz channel, 10 miles X4000/R52H attached to 21db 
MTI Panel/29db Pacwireless  30 down, 30 up

for comparison:  Motorola Gemini Lite (30meg bh) on the same link - 3meg 
down, 3 up

We have several RB532 backhauls in the air, and even with all the 
optimization we can do to them, we never get better than 20 meg in one 
direction.  Replacing the RB532s with WAR2s (266mhz CPU, comparable to 
an RB532) nearly doubles the speed.

On comparable hardware, I have not come across ANY Mikrotik system that 
will keep up with StarOS when it comes to dedicated backhaul.   

Matt Larsen
Inventive Media


Mark Nash wrote:
  
  
5.3GHz 40MHz channel, 1.5 miles.   WAR4-METRO/SR5 inside 24dbi RooTennas. 
Testing beyond each ethernet port.  2 weeks non-stop stress-testing after we 
installed and before we deployed gave us 70 megs one way.  The MRTG graph 
looked like a solid block without any deviation.

Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Mac Dearman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS


  


  I haven't seen those results, but I have seen 12MbpsFDX with a -63 on both
sides running Nstream2. If we are going to talk REAL THROUGHPUT - - lets 
get
real and everyone use real figures. I ain't talking bench test and "maybe"
if I hold one hand in the air, twist my lips standing on one leg.

I mean real world - whatcha getting?? Whatcha see and is it a bench test 
or
are you in the real WISP world? :)


Mac








  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:51 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

50 both ways with N-Stream dual and Turbo mode...

Dennis M. Burgess
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri
--WISP/Network Support Services--
+1 314-686-1302


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT vs StarOS

Mikrotik can do 70 megs or more over 40 MHz as well.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

  

  

  
  



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[WISPA] MT vs StarOS

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Anyone care to help "compare" a Mikrotik based bridged AP/CPE solution 
to StarOS?

Here is a quick list I have come up with. I would love to have everyone 
add their thoughts...

Mikrotik features:
graphical user interface (Winbox)
more features (Torch, etc)
more hardware choices (RB532, RB411, RB600, etc.)
Nstreme protocol
very reliable

StarOS features:
FCC certified CPE
lower price
'Sync' feature (reconfigure all CPE from the AP side with a single 
change, such as frequency)
OLSR feature
VoIP priority with minimal config
200 CPE per wireless card (capable)

Travis
Microserv



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[WISPA] Mikrotik FCC

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I thought a little while ago someone was talking about someone that was 
working on making an FCC certified Mikrotik solution (RB532, etc.). Does 
anyone know the status on this or if it was even real?

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] tripod source

[Travis Johnson]

Can you get the 2 footers? 

Dennis Burgess - Link Techs Inc wrote:

  Got them for 17.95 plus shipping, but I think they are the 3 footers.

Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
Hi,

I am looking for a source for roof-mount tripods (the 2ft versions).

thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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[WISPA] tripod source

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I am looking for a source for roof-mount tripods (the 2ft versions).

thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] GPS

[Travis Johnson]

Mike,

The elevation reading on a GPS is only accurate to within about 30 feet. 
Using one to measure tower height is not going to product accurate results.

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
> I am looking at getting a GPS device.  I'd like it to work with many 
> different programs such as Google Earth, Radio Mobile, Kismet, etc.
>
> What sort of features do I need it to have to work with these programs?
>
> I'd also like to have it be an independent unit with elevation so I can climb 
> a tower and see exactly how tall it is instead of pulling a number out of you 
> know where.
>
> Recommendations?
>
>
> --
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>   



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[WISPA] Save us all

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I just got a postcard today from www.rescueisp.com. After looking at the 
website, I did a whois on the domain and found Mark Hopperton as the 
owner. And then I found his other website, www.xsfunds.com.

I'm starting to wonder if these guys have it figured out... get all your 
money up front from big investors, act like you have this great new 
product that nobody else has, and then take your money and run. :)

Pretty amazing that investors are still falling for this kind of 
stuff... with millions and millions of dollars... 

Travis
Microserv





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Re: [WISPA] FCC Certifiable MikroTik? YES!!

[Travis Johnson]

Who has them in stock?

Travis
Microserv

Gino Villarini wrote:

  Rf Connector is Hirose UF.L type , Retail is $120 ... 

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Certifiable MikroTik? YES!!

Anybody know what type of RF connectors are on the board?
What should one expect to pay for large quantities of the bare board?

- Original Message - 
From: "Gino Villarini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Certifiable MikroTik? YES!!


  
  
It is

http://www.shelbywireless.com/files/crossroads3.pdf



Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

  
  On
  
  
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:19 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Certifiable MikroTik? YES!!

Wonder if the wireless PCB is available without the box?  I could

  
  build
  
  
it
into an antenna.
- Original Message - 
From: "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Certifiable MikroTik? YES!!




  On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, Travis Johnson wrote:

  
  
Here is where it will get interesting... in the actual MT software.
How are they going to "lock down" the software so the power
outputs, channels, etc. are all within FCC guidelines? They are
almost going to have to have a seperate MT version... which to me
seems pretty unlikely. :(

  
  There is/will be a package installed that will set these limits.  It
does not require a unique "version", per se.  This is what was done
for at least one upcoming release of some certified systems.

-- 
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



  

  
  
  
  



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Re: [WISPA] FCC Certifiable MikroTik? YES!!

[Travis Johnson]

Those products don't automatically turn the power down when you select 
the 5.3ghz band? Trango does. The old CX-1's are restricted as well.

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
> How many other platforms are really that much more restrictive?  Redline's 
> 3650 FCC certified gear asks you to turn the power down with a larger 
> antenna.  I believe its the same for Orthogon and Redline 5.4 GHz gear as 
> well.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Travis Johnson 
>   To: WISPA General List 
>   Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 4:14 PM
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Certifiable MikroTik? YES!!
>
>
>   Mac,
>
>   Here is where it will get interesting... in the actual MT software. How are 
> they going to "lock down" the software so the power outputs, channels, etc. 
> are all within FCC guidelines? They are almost going to have to have a 
> seperate MT version... which to me seems pretty unlikely. :(
>
>   Travis
>   Microserv
>
>   Mac Dearman wrote: 
> David,
>
>What this means is that MT has put together a combination of antennas
> from different manufacturers connected to their hardware and had them
> certified as "meeting the FCC criteria" thus giving them the ability to
> produce "exact" replicas of what they had certified. It does not mean that
> if we (wireless operators) slam the same gear (identical or not) together
> and hang on a tower - - its FCC Certified - - it's not.
>
>  The big picture here is that their hardware (whatever routerboard(s) they
> used), radios, antennas, jumpers, pigtails, enclosure and choice of antennas
> are certified and will soon be on the market for resale with that little
> white sticker that seems so important!
>
> Mac
>
>
>
>   -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David E. Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 3:46 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Certifiable MikroTik? YES!!
>
> Mac Dearman wrote:
> I thought I would share some of MikroTik's FCC certified gear with
>   the list.
>
> [ snip ]
>
> Okay, I'm gonna hate myself for asking this, because it means opening
> the dread Pandora's Box that is "FCC certification questions."
>
> The Routerboard 52 is "just" a mini-PCI card. Is this certification
> still valid when you use it as part of anything else? If so, with what?
> Can I connect it to a Routerboard 532 with Mikrotik's RouterOS software
> and legally use it? Can I put it in my laptop computer? Can I run it
> with Valemount's StarOS software, regardless of what antenna it's
> connected to?
>
> It's nice that this component is FCC-friendly, but you need a lot of
> components to get customers online.
>
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>
>
> ---
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Re: [WISPA] FCC Certifiable MikroTik? YES!!

[Travis Johnson]

Mac,

Here is where it will get interesting... in the actual MT software. How
are they going to "lock down" the software so the power outputs,
channels, etc. are all within FCC guidelines? They are almost going to
have to have a seperate MT version... which to me seems pretty
unlikely. :(

Travis
Microserv

Mac Dearman wrote:

  David,

   What this means is that MT has put together a combination of antennas
from different manufacturers connected to their hardware and had them
certified as "meeting the FCC criteria" thus giving them the ability to
produce "exact" replicas of what they had certified. It does not mean that
if we (wireless operators) slam the same gear (identical or not) together
and hang on a tower - - its FCC Certified - - it's not.

 The big picture here is that their hardware (whatever routerboard(s) they
used), radios, antennas, jumpers, pigtails, enclosure and choice of antennas
are certified and will soon be on the market for resale with that little
white sticker that seems so important!

Mac



  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 3:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Certifiable MikroTik? YES!!

Mac Dearman wrote:


  I thought I would share some of MikroTik's FCC certified gear with
  

the list.

[ snip ]

Okay, I'm gonna hate myself for asking this, because it means opening
the dread Pandora's Box that is "FCC certification questions."

The Routerboard 52 is "just" a mini-PCI card. Is this certification
still valid when you use it as part of anything else? If so, with what?
Can I connect it to a Routerboard 532 with Mikrotik's RouterOS software
and legally use it? Can I put it in my laptop computer? Can I run it
with Valemount's StarOS software, regardless of what antenna it's
connected to?

It's nice that this component is FCC-friendly, but you need a lot of
components to get customers online.

David Smith
MVN.net


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Re: [WISPA] 18Ghz multi-path

[Travis Johnson]

Tom,

Your rainzone affects potential signal loss during a heavy storm... so
it takes a bigger dish or more power to compensate for that... just the
same as my mountaintop towers that get up to 2 feet of ice build-up on
them... we have to plan for 10db of "extra" signal loss during 3-4
months of the year. 

I guess I'm not sure why all the questions about multi-path, etc.? I've
_never_ heard of someone not being able to get an 18ghz link working.
It's licensed, so there are no noise issues. It's a tight beamwidth,
and if engineered and installed correctly (not on anything that will
move or flex), it will work.

Is there a particular install you are considering?

Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:

  Good info, to build confidence, but, your area is dry climate. 
Its a different animal here in our East coast D2 rain zone.

Anyone with D2 zone or worse, Feedback? 

  
  
We have not seen any multi-path issues with any 18ghz links.

  
  
Are you mounted on tenant buildings, towers, or hills?
Multipath would only likely be a concern for tenant building roof mount.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 11:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 18Ghz multi-path


  Hi,

  We currently have five 18ghz links... two have been up for almost 4 years with less than 30 minutes downtime total.

  1 - 7 miles, 2ft dishes, 99.% calc'd uptime, so far correct (4 years)
  2 - 19 miles, 4ft dishes, 99.999% calc'd uptime, so far correct (4 years)
  3 - 14 miles, 2.5ft dishes, 99.999% calc'd uptime, so far correct (8 months)
  4 - 15 miles, 2.5ft dishes, 99.999% calc'd uptime, so far correct (8 months)
  5 - 28 miles, 2ft dishes, 99.99% calc'd uptime, so far correct (4 months)

  We have not seen any multi-path issues with any 18ghz links. We are always able to get 1-2db better signal than the path calc shows, but it can take a little time (the 27 mile link took almost an hour to fully align, compared with 10-15 minutes for the other links).

  We are in the 12mm/h rain zone.

  Travis
  Microserv

  Tom DeReggi wrote: 
So what are you guy finding regarding 18Ghz multi-path.
What we learned over this past year is that multipath for Millimeter Wave 
and high Spectrum ranges, is a different animal.
Very picky.  18Ghz specifically is known for negative effects of reflection, 
that need to be taken into account in isntalltion design.

Any success rates on wall mounting? Are your links path calc'd for 2ft dish 
working with 2 ft, as engineered? Etc.
Are you getting 3- 9s engineering 3- 9's?

This question isn;t about gear, its about 18Ghz.

(Note if mention distance, please mention rain zone)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


  I wish we could say the same about the Trango.  So far nothing but flaky
behavior and that is with -44 dBm rx signal levels.
But this is a new product to us and there may be something we are not
configuring properly.  Not going to count it out until the factory guys 
have
had a chance to exhaust their remedies.

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


The Trango is solid as a rock, also.
Trango is a great product, for a basic config, meaning 1 link, w/ 1
antenna
and radio per side, under 300mbps.
I was nothing but impressed with our units.

Dragonwave currently has the lead from the perspective of supporting all
the
freq ranges in a single paltform, best adaptive modulation routines, and
ability to combine radios on a single antenna to double capacity.  But
there
is a price to that.  If those feature aren't needed?

Cable Free is also a great product, if you are planning on daisy chaining
several links, the flexibilty and cost savings of these units are
fantastic.
Also very impressed with the overall design of their system. (Only
negative
I found was no adaptive modulation)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


  Matt

I have installed over 50 Dragonwave links in the past 24  months.  1
outage the result of equipment failure and I had a replacement in my 
hand
the next day from Canada.

Airpair goes up to 200 Meg. FD. Horizon will do 600 plus. Multiple IDU.
ODU ar

Re: [WISPA] 18Ghz multi-path

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

We currently have five 18ghz links... two have been up for almost 4
years with less than 30 minutes downtime total.

1 - 7 miles, 2ft dishes, 99.% calc'd uptime, so far correct (4
years)
2 - 19 miles, 4ft dishes, 99.999% calc'd uptime, so far correct (4
years)
3 - 14 miles, 2.5ft dishes, 99.999% calc'd uptime, so far correct (8
months)
4 - 15 miles, 2.5ft dishes, 99.999% calc'd uptime, so far correct (8
months)
5 - 28 miles, 2ft dishes, 99.99% calc'd uptime, so far correct (4
months)

We have not seen any multi-path issues with any 18ghz links. We are
always able to get 1-2db better signal than the path calc shows, but it
can take a little time (the 27 mile link took almost an hour to fully
align, compared with 10-15 minutes for the other links).

We are in the 12mm/h rain zone.

Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:

  So what are you guy finding regarding 18Ghz multi-path.
What we learned over this past year is that multipath for Millimeter Wave 
and high Spectrum ranges, is a different animal.
Very picky.  18Ghz specifically is known for negative effects of reflection, 
that need to be taken into account in isntalltion design.

Any success rates on wall mounting? Are your links path calc'd for 2ft dish 
working with 2 ft, as engineered? Etc.
Are you getting 3- 9s engineering 3- 9's?

This question isn;t about gear, its about 18Ghz.

(Note if mention distance, please mention rain zone)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


  
  
I wish we could say the same about the Trango.  So far nothing but flaky
behavior and that is with -44 dBm rx signal levels.
But this is a new product to us and there may be something we are not
configuring properly.  Not going to count it out until the factory guys 
have
had a chance to exhaust their remedies.

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link




  The Trango is solid as a rock, also.
Trango is a great product, for a basic config, meaning 1 link, w/ 1
antenna
and radio per side, under 300mbps.
I was nothing but impressed with our units.

Dragonwave currently has the lead from the perspective of supporting all
the
freq ranges in a single paltform, best adaptive modulation routines, and
ability to combine radios on a single antenna to double capacity.  But
there
is a price to that.  If those feature aren't needed?

Cable Free is also a great product, if you are planning on daisy chaining
several links, the flexibilty and cost savings of these units are
fantastic.
Also very impressed with the overall design of their system. (Only
negative
I found was no adaptive modulation)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


  
  
Matt

I have installed over 50 Dragonwave links in the past 24  months.  1
outage the result of equipment failure and I had a replacement in my 
hand
the next day from Canada.

Airpair goes up to 200 Meg. FD. Horizon will do 600 plus. Multiple IDU.
ODU architecture. You could do 200 MB Horizon for your budget.

I have no experience with the trango.

Bob
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:47:10
To:"WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


I have used the Trango GigaLink and DragonWave.  DragonWave is rock
solid.
Never a problem.  Have several systems.
We are still trying to get the Trango to play.  Lots of signal but not
running well at all.

- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link




  Matt,

I would take a look at the Trango GigaLink 18ghz product. It will do
105Mbps full-duplex (200Mbps total) for your price range and you can do
a software upgrade to 300Mbps full-duplex (600Mbps total) for about
$5,000 extra (at a later date, when you need the speed). It's an 
IDU/ODU
setup and you use LMR-400 between them.

You could lease the 600Mbps version on a 36 month, $1 buyout for less
than you are paying for your fiber. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
  
  
Hi all,

I am 

Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link

[Travis Johnson]

Matt,

I would take a look at the Trango GigaLink 18ghz product. It will do 
105Mbps full-duplex (200Mbps total) for your price range and you can do 
a software upgrade to 300Mbps full-duplex (600Mbps total) for about 
$5,000 extra (at a later date, when you need the speed). It's an IDU/ODU 
setup and you use LMR-400 between them.

You could lease the 600Mbps version on a 36 month, $1 buyout for less 
than you are paying for your fiber. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for a licensed link to replace a fiber connection.   I am 
> currently paying for a 100meg fiber connection between two of my towers 
> and would like to replace it with my own infrastructure.  I own the 
> towers on both sides, there is plenty of LOS and the link distance is 
> 2.9 miles.  The connection currently peaks out at about 30 meg, but I'm 
> planning to put remote backup servers on the far side, so I'd like to be 
> able to maintain 100meg speeds.
>
> I am interested in finding out what kind of radios people are using for 
> this type of link.  The fiber connection costs me $500/month, and I'd 
> like to be able to pay for the link within 2.5 years, so that puts a  
> $12-15K  price range on it.Vendors, feel free to contact me off-list 
> about this one.
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
>  
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers

[Travis Johnson]

In our area, Edge Wireless is a regional cell company (actually a 
subsidiary of AT&T). They have 90 towers in my coverage area. We tried 
once to get on one of their towers. It was a 3 page application that had 
to be submitted along with a $3,000 application fee (that was NON 
refundable). Needless to say, we never submitted the application.

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
> Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers?  IE:  
> AT&T, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc.  Not interested in hearing about American 
> Tower, GTP, etc.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] sources

[Travis Johnson]

The "universal mounts" that are often used with satellite TV installs.
It has a flat foot with a pipe that is bent in the shape of a J.

http://www.pacwireless.com/products/UM.shtml

Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

  What is a J mount?

got a picture by chance?

Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
Hi,

Where is everyone buying their "J-mounts" for doing installs? I use 
about 100 per month and my previous source no longer carries them.

thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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[WISPA] sources

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Where is everyone buying their "J-mounts" for doing installs? I use 
about 100 per month and my previous source no longer carries them.

thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] Akamai

[Travis Johnson]

Matt,

Everyone is asking about peering with Google... and I would like to ask 
you because you already are peered with them... do you actually see that 
much traffic going to and from Google? I would think peering with 
Microsoft or NBC or places like that would be much more beneficial?


thanks,

Travis
Microserv

Matt Liotta wrote:

George Rogato wrote:
Thats my thoughts. But, if NBC isn't paying Akamai, it won't be on 
their servers.


Once you are on a peering exchange it is as easy as asking with Akamai 
since they have an open peering policy. Although, some networks with 
open peering policies will not peer with you if they are already 
peered with one or more of your upstreams. That is our policy for 
example.


I'm in the Pittock Building, wonder how easy it is to connect to 
akamai or google.



Google is going to require peering in more than one location.

-Matt


 


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Re: [WISPA] Akamai

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Honestly I'm not sure what info they are storing now-a-days. I know a 
lot of yahoo stuff is there and microsoft updates, etc. but I'm not sure 
what else.


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Thanks Travis.
I was hoping that Akamai would make somethings go faster being at my 
pop rather than across the net.
Glad Windows updates are there. Any idea what else is there that is a 
possible bandwidth saver or performance enhancer.


We used to have Akamai Servers and a caching server back in the T-1 
Dial up days, but when we went to managed modems and fiber for our 
connectivity, we cancelled the Akamai servers and shut down the cache.


Now with video's being so popular, I'm looking at Akamai again. I just 
don't know what content is stored on their servers. Would be nice if 
cnn, fox, nbc, abc, etc were all working with Akamai.


Wuld also be nice if there was other companies like Akamai to check out.


George

Travis Johnson wrote:
We've had it for almost 5 years now, and they actually approached 
us... so it was a simple form and they shipped us all the equipment 
(which does take about 4u of rack space and power... it's 3 servers 
and a switch).


I also know that our servers handle requests for people that are 
"close" to us, so they may only set up so many people in an area, I'm 
not sure.


Travis
Microserv

Forrest W. Christian wrote:

Travis Johnson wrote:

We love Akamai... especially during big Windows Update periods. :)

We serve 12 school districts and they all seem to do their updates 
on PC's and servers during the same times (during school breaks) 
and the Akamai servers save us a ton of bandwidth and the customers 
get GREAT speeds doing the updates. 

What did you have to go through to get a set for your network?

-forrest


 


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Re: [WISPA] Akamai

[Travis Johnson]

We've had it for almost 5 years now, and they actually approached us... 
so it was a simple form and they shipped us all the equipment (which 
does take about 4u of rack space and power... it's 3 servers and a switch).


I also know that our servers handle requests for people that are "close" 
to us, so they may only set up so many people in an area, I'm not sure.


Travis
Microserv

Forrest W. Christian wrote:

Travis Johnson wrote:

We love Akamai... especially during big Windows Update periods. :)

We serve 12 school districts and they all seem to do their updates on 
PC's and servers during the same times (during school breaks) and the 
Akamai servers save us a ton of bandwidth and the customers get GREAT 
speeds doing the updates. 

What did you have to go through to get a set for your network?

-forrest


 


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Re: [WISPA] Akamai

[Travis Johnson]

We love Akamai... especially during big Windows Update periods. :)

We serve 12 school districts and they all seem to do their updates on 
PC's and servers during the same times (during school breaks) and the 
Akamai servers save us a ton of bandwidth and the customers get GREAT 
speeds doing the updates.


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Anybody have any experience with Akamai?

I'm thinking of adding some Akamai  servers to my network again, 
looking for opinions.


Thanks

George







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[WISPA] bandwidth

[Travis Johnson]

This could be a big bandwidth problem starting soon...

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/netflix-lg-team-up-bring/story.aspx?guid=%7B524C1C79-666C-49FD-AD1A-75E4D3B5878B%7D

The typical HD movie is 8GB in size... meaning with a 1Mbps internet 
connection it will take about 17 hours to download.


Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] brain cramp, can someone jog my memory?

[Travis Johnson]

Radio Mobile?

Patrick Leary wrote:

The name of the popular free software that does path calcs using GPS a
provides a simple view showing the terrain elevation between points...

Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




 This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp 
Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(84). 






 
 


This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
viruses.







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Re: [WISPA] WTB Trango 5.3

[Travis Johnson]

Yes, I can use them... what's the price? :)

Travis

Mac Dearman wrote:

  Travis,

   I am not sure if what I have is even compatible with what you are looking
for, but I have 15 brand new - never powered up Trango M5580M-FSU. If it is
something that you could use - - drop me a line  - - CHEAP - -I mean CHEAP
:)


Merry Christmas Bro.,
Mac



  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 10:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] WTB Trango 5.3

Hi,

I am looking for Trango FOX5300 (5.3ghz only) units. Please reply
off-list with quantity available and asking price.

thanks,

Travis
Microserv


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[WISPA] WTB Trango 5.3

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I am looking for Trango FOX5300 (5.3ghz only) units. Please reply 
off-list with quantity available and asking price.


thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] Fiber

[Travis Johnson]

Matt,

We have not considered that, but it comes down to cost as well. We 
charge a $500 setup fee to get the fiber installed at the customer prem. 
It costs us about $1,000 to actually get the fiber installed including 
the Cisco switch with GBIC's. I understand the idea of CWDM and ADMs, 
but at the same time I see a downside. If one of the GBIC modules fails 
at the customer prem, they are down. With our current configuration, 
they would still be up and running. It would also add one more point of 
failure at each customer.


We adopted the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle when we started 
doing the fiber. We run STP on the main switch at our NOC, so really 
traffic only goes out one GBIC at our NOC unless there is a problem. At 
that point, we get email notification and using our SNMP system, we can 
tell exactly where the problem is and get it fixed quickly. Right now we 
are only moving about 50Mbps of traffic, so even only having 1Gbps of 
capacity should work for many, many years to come.


Travis
Microserv

Matt Liotta wrote:

Travis Johnson wrote:

Hi,

This is very true... we install a small UPS along with the switch to 
help with power issues... but with 70+ customers on the ring right 
now, we have not seen any issues. If a single customer goes down, the 
ring is still fully functional for everyone else. At that point, we 
contact that customer to find out the problem and get it resolved as 
quickly as possible. The only time we have had more than 1 customer 
down at a time is when a major power outage happens that lasts more 
than an hour.


Since you are using GBICs have you considered using CWDM along with 
passive ADMs instead? Passive ADMs don't require any power and could 
be used at each customer location to drop a single channel of light 
that you plug into the GBIC. This way if a single customer's equipment 
goes down the rest of the ring stays up. With CWDM you only have 8 
channels of light giving you a max of 8 gigs shared across your ring, 
but that is probably fine considering you only have 2 gigs with your 
current setup.


-Matt


 


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Re: [WISPA] Fiber

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

This is very true... we install a small UPS along with the switch to 
help with power issues... but with 70+ customers on the ring right now, 
we have not seen any issues. If a single customer goes down, the ring is 
still fully functional for everyone else. At that point, we contact that 
customer to find out the problem and get it resolved as quickly as 
possible. The only time we have had more than 1 customer down at a time 
is when a major power outage happens that lasts more than an hour.


Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
The problem with a lot of customers being an integral part of the ring 
is the customer's reliability affecting your network.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fiber



Hi,

We do the same for commercial and residential customers... although 
our cheapest plan for this service is $250/month.


Cisco switches with GBIC modules can be purchased for less than $500 
complete. How much will all the fiber stuff cost at each household to 
enable a PON? As well as at the NOC?


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Thanks Travis,
I'm guessing this is for commercial, using a cisco switch at each 
customer location?

What about resi?

Travis Johnson wrote:

George,

I just throw this out as another possibility on your fiber service. 
We currently offer fiber service and we are doing it all over a 
single pair of single-mode fiber in a complete "ring" 
configuration. So each customer has a pair that comes into their 
location and then a pair that leaves their location, but it's all 
the same pair. We then install Cisco switches (with dual GBIC's) at 
each customer and we have a fully redundant fiber ring capable of 
doing 1000Mbps.


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Thanks for offering to help,


Here's what I have.
My noc is across a creek from a water tank that I have a dozen 
ap's on. So I have to do aerial to get there. I want to use an 
aerial cable that has a lot of fibers in it. So I can put each 
radio on it's own fiber and not have a switch at the tank.
I also want to extend the rest of the unused fibers out to do a 
fiber to the premises roll out.


What I'm not sure is what type or size of fiber to pull, 
considering I want to break it out and go down the street.
I'm assuming single mode and I'm thinking this drop is short, 
550', I can use like 128 strands.


I am assuming going up the street to the homes, It would be a PON 
network.


So I'm not sure of the fiber, or the network equipment behind it.

George


Scott Reed wrote:
I may not get you all the answers, but here are some questions 
you need to answer to get answers:

How far do you want to go?
What kind of data and data rates are you looking for?
What equipment is at the ends?
Hanging from poles, buried, etc.?


George Rogato wrote:

Anyone do fiber?
I'm wondering where I should be looking for good pricing on some 
aerial fiber.
I don't know very much about fiber at all, so I also need some 
advice on what fiber I should be using as well as what connectors.


Anyone have any experience?

Thanks







 



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Re: [WISPA] Fiber

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

We do the same for commercial and residential customers... although our 
cheapest plan for this service is $250/month.


Cisco switches with GBIC modules can be purchased for less than $500 
complete. How much will all the fiber stuff cost at each household to 
enable a PON? As well as at the NOC?


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Thanks Travis,
I'm guessing this is for commercial, using a cisco switch at each 
customer location?

What about resi?

Travis Johnson wrote:

George,

I just throw this out as another possibility on your fiber service. 
We currently offer fiber service and we are doing it all over a 
single pair of single-mode fiber in a complete "ring" configuration. 
So each customer has a pair that comes into their location and then a 
pair that leaves their location, but it's all the same pair. We then 
install Cisco switches (with dual GBIC's) at each customer and we 
have a fully redundant fiber ring capable of doing 1000Mbps.


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Thanks for offering to help,


Here's what I have.
My noc is across a creek from a water tank that I have a dozen ap's 
on. So I have to do aerial to get there. I want to use an aerial 
cable that has a lot of fibers in it. So I can put each radio on 
it's own fiber and not have a switch at the tank.
I also want to extend the rest of the unused fibers out to do a 
fiber to the premises roll out.


What I'm not sure is what type or size of fiber to pull, considering 
I want to break it out and go down the street.
I'm assuming single mode and I'm thinking this drop is short, 550', 
I can use like 128 strands.


I am assuming going up the street to the homes, It would be a PON 
network.


So I'm not sure of the fiber, or the network equipment behind it.

George


Scott Reed wrote:
I may not get you all the answers, but here are some questions you 
need to answer to get answers:

How far do you want to go?
What kind of data and data rates are you looking for?
What equipment is at the ends?
Hanging from poles, buried, etc.?


George Rogato wrote:

Anyone do fiber?
I'm wondering where I should be looking for good pricing on some 
aerial fiber.
I don't know very much about fiber at all, so I also need some 
advice on what fiber I should be using as well as what connectors.


Anyone have any experience?

Thanks







 


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Re: [WISPA] Fiber

[Travis Johnson]

George,

I just throw this out as another possibility on your fiber service. We 
currently offer fiber service and we are doing it all over a single pair 
of single-mode fiber in a complete "ring" configuration. So each 
customer has a pair that comes into their location and then a pair that 
leaves their location, but it's all the same pair. We then install Cisco 
switches (with dual GBIC's) at each customer and we have a fully 
redundant fiber ring capable of doing 1000Mbps.


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Thanks for offering to help,


Here's what I have.
My noc is across a creek from a water tank that I have a dozen ap's 
on. So I have to do aerial to get there. I want to use an aerial cable 
that has a lot of fibers in it. So I can put each radio on it's own 
fiber and not have a switch at the tank.
I also want to extend the rest of the unused fibers out to do a fiber 
to the premises roll out.


What I'm not sure is what type or size of fiber to pull, considering I 
want to break it out and go down the street.
I'm assuming single mode and I'm thinking this drop is short, 550', I 
can use like 128 strands.


I am assuming going up the street to the homes, It would be a PON 
network.


So I'm not sure of the fiber, or the network equipment behind it.

George


Scott Reed wrote:
I may not get you all the answers, but here are some questions you 
need to answer to get answers:

How far do you want to go?
What kind of data and data rates are you looking for?
What equipment is at the ends?
Hanging from poles, buried, etc.?


George Rogato wrote:

Anyone do fiber?
I'm wondering where I should be looking for good pricing on some 
aerial fiber.
I don't know very much about fiber at all, so I also need some 
advice on what fiber I should be using as well as what connectors.


Anyone have any experience?

Thanks








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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Travis Johnson]

Adobe Photoshop
Scansoft Paperport
Quickbooks
iTunes (for my iPhone)
Streets and Trips 2008
Radio Mobile
Quark Xpress
Visio

thanks,

Travis
Microserv

Butch Evans wrote:

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written 
for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to 
MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to 
have it work so easily.


What?  There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux.  Do you use 
thousands of programs?  Give me a list of the "must have" programs you 
use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that 
will accomplish what you are looking for.






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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

The least expensive MacBook on Apple's site is $1,099... and that's only 
a 13.3" screen. The HP's I purchased a couple months ago have 15.4" 
screens... they were $600 each brand new.


The MacBook Pro (15" screen) starts at $1,999.

Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

<$1000.00 You need to get out more! :)

Easy.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:32 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP 
laptop that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out 
of a Mac laptop is $1,400.


Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all 
the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller 
Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... 
but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is 
easier than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you 
will

find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the 
switch

to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on 
every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for "family" use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my 
family.  What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate 
Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a 
learning

curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going 
backwards.



I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install 
Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified 
Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Travis Johnson]

Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP laptop 
that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out of a Mac 
laptop is $1,400.


Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the 
expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster 
Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but 
there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier 
than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on 
every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for "family" use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  
What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going 
backwards.



I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install 
Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified 
Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Travis Johnson]

The _only_ reason Vista will still be around is because Microsoft is
forcing people to buy it with new computers. If they had an installer
when the person first turned the computer on that would allow a
selection of XP or Vista, I bet 95% of people would pick XP.

Travis
Microserv

Jonathan Schmidt wrote:

  We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less
than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense but
drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. 

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with
a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO
(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that "VISTA" was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs.

It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively
help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
  
  
Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...  
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.  
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista 
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update 
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the 
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




  In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here 
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
hottest products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
0001)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the
expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster
Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods? 

Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but
there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).

Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:

  Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier than
window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every
computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
Jeff,

A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for "family" use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


  Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.


  
  I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install Linux and get
started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical 
machine running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower?


Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO 
HORRIBLE...  but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their 
fabricated fears.  I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 
issues with Vista itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who 
are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's 
fault...  that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long  
time,
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so  
many changes
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should be 
learning

it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
hottest

products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) 




 


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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Travis Johnson]

Jeff,

A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for "family" use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:

  Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.

  
  
I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install Linux and get
started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Travis Johnson]

The only other issue you will have is finding all the XP drivers for the 
laptop. HP/Compaq no longer publish the XP drivers for laptops that come 
with Vista on them. You can still find them, it just takes a little 
searching.


Travis
Microserv

Bob Moldashel wrote:
Thanks George.  I just want to leave Vista on there incase something 
happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best 
Buy.  they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues.  Its a 
"just in case" issue.


Thanks!


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote:

Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility 
built in.
So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, 
squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. 
Linux will find the space.


Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if 
you really don't want vista.



Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:
I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic 
and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one 
for OSXL

and used the remaining space for linux.
Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question
Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a 
network  guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in 
naturesort of
I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard 
drive,  delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing 
anything to  the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other 
program available  to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.
Tnx.
-B-
Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 



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--
George Rogato

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Re: [WISPA] What basic ROI do you target?

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

We lease all of our CPE, therefore our ROI is 0 months. The installation 
fee ($99) covers the truck roll for the installation, so starting from 
day one I am making profit on that customer. We have been doing it this 
way for over 4 years now.


Travis
Microserv

Patrick Leary wrote:

I am curious about how divergent the responses may be. In your answer,
include just the cost of the truck roll and CPE measured against any
set-up and service initiation fees charged with the monthly subscription
fee.

Years ago, it was not uncommon for WISPs to say they need a 24-month
basic return per subscriber. These days I suspect most will say under 9
months. 


Patrick Leary
AVP, Market Development
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(84). 






 
 


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[WISPA] MT script

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I am looking for a little Mikrotik scripting help. It is a very simple 
request, but I have been unable to get anything that works correctly. 
All I want is an email with the source address of any IP that goes over 
100 packets per second on interface ether2.


Any help would be appreciated.

thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I gave up on the "worry about how to protect for the future" stuff long 
ago... 5 years ago there was no such thing as p2p. Six years ago there 
were no viruses/worms/etc. that would affect an AP like today. A few 
years from now there will be another new "thing" that we will be dealing 
with, and there will be many suitable solutions to this p2p issue we see 
today.


Deal with today's issues today. Plan for tomorrow's issues tomorrow. :)

Travis
Microserv

CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

I agree, you are fairly well protected, Travis, but for how long.  But more
and more we are seeing encrypted P2P and encrypted Bit Torrent... This will
soon be the norm across the world because so many like you and I and George,
Comcast, etc ARE limiting it.  We cannot keep trying to control the
application, we have to control the packet ONLY, no matter who,what or where
it goes to.  That is our business, Open access via Packets and excellent
customer Service... for a price that is.   
 
 
Chuck Profito

209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC


Hi,

I think some people missed my point on this discussion... so I'm going to
re-cap:

We use MT to cap the p2p sharing (during business hours only, because that
is my peak usage time). Some people say MT is only catching about 70% of the
p2p traffic. My point was that by using MT (that I already had in place and
is FREE), if I am able to cap 70% of the p2p, that should take care of 99%
of the problems... because any network should be able to handle what little
p2p is left. I am also capping each sub at the CPE, so overall I am fairly
well protected from a single (or small group) of p2p users affecting
anything seriously.

Travis
Microserv

CHUCK PROFITO wrote: 


You are nuts or spoiled on 5 gig or have fiber stuffed up every tower.  1

P2P on a 2.4 rural ap opening 100+ connections will packet flood an ap in

about 1 minute.  2.4 will only realistically deliver 5 megs per radio. 1 P2P

uploading to 60 plus users will be slowed enough to bring the bits per

packet way down, then the packet flood ensues.  Now put six sectors on a

tower, with 300+ subs, 10 megs of back haul, then add 6 P2P and on top of

that add three or four bit torrent users with 50 or 60 connections each down

loading the best movie ever from Netflix, and now your backhaul starts the

flood too.. And you are 30 miles from the fiber head in.  Yeah, right...

Don't tell me not to shape the traffic.



Chuck Profito

209-988-7388

CV-ACCESS, INC

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Providing High Speed Broadband 


to Rural Central California





-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of George Rogato

Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:42 PM

To: WISPA General List

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC





Come on, you guys that sell "slow" broadband generaly don't have too 

much to worry about. It's not like if you got an ap that does 10 megs 

and you sell 50 512k subs that the one or three out of 20 running p2p is 


going to be very noticable.

Try giving those 50 equal access to the full 10 megs and see what 


happens then, if you don't throttle the p2p.











Travis Johnson wrote:

  


Hi,






  If your network can't handle a small amount of p2p

  


traffic, you have bigger issues. :)



Travis

Microserv












  


George Rogato wrote:




How do you cap the encrypted stuff?





Travis Johnson wrote:

  


Hi,



First let me say that we cap p2p traffic during the business day, 


but

otherwise we let it run wide open. However, we sell our connections 

based on speed. Whatever they pay for is what they get... none of 

this burstable stuff, etc. If they want 512k, they pay for 512k. If 


they want 1meg, they pay for 1meg.



The problem with bandwidth caps of xx gigs per month is that NOBODY

else is doing it... not DSL, not Cable, not any of my wireless 

competitors, etc. Once you start putting that limitation on their 

connection, they will start switching to something that does not have 

caps. If you have bandwidth limits in place already, there is no need 

for the monthly limits. (This does not mean we allow 24x7 bandwidth 


usage, but we allow "reasonable" usage).



Travis

Microserv



George Rogato wrote:



I think the way to go is to be able to identify the various types 


of

traffic and rate limit them.

And once we can do this, then it's time to pull out the menu of 


various offerings we can provide.

Want a 3 meg x 3 meg burstable connection with a sustained traffic 

rate of 1meg x 256k and bandwidth ca

Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I think some people missed my point on this discussion... so I'm going
to re-cap:

We use MT to cap the p2p sharing (during business hours only, because
that is my peak usage time). Some people say MT is only catching about
70% of the p2p traffic. My point was that by using MT (that I already
had in place and is FREE), if I am able to cap 70% of the p2p, that
should take care of 99% of the problems... because any network should
be able to handle what little p2p is left. I am also capping each sub
at the CPE, so overall I am fairly well protected from a single (or
small group) of p2p users affecting anything seriously.

Travis
Microserv

CHUCK PROFITO wrote:

  You are nuts or spoiled on 5 gig or have fiber stuffed up every tower.  1
P2P on a 2.4 rural ap opening 100+ connections will packet flood an ap in
about 1 minute.  2.4 will only realistically deliver 5 megs per radio. 1 P2P
uploading to 60 plus users will be slowed enough to bring the bits per
packet way down, then the packet flood ensues.  Now put six sectors on a
tower, with 300+ subs, 10 megs of back haul, then add 6 P2P and on top of
that add three or four bit torrent users with 50 or 60 connections each down
loading the best movie ever from Netflix, and now your backhaul starts the
flood too.. And you are 30 miles from the fiber head in.  Yeah, right...
Don't tell me not to shape the traffic.

Chuck Profito
209-988-7388
CV-ACCESS, INC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Providing High Speed Broadband 
to Rural Central California


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC


Come on, you guys that sell "slow" broadband generaly don't have too 
much to worry about. It's not like if you got an ap that does 10 megs 
and you sell 50 512k subs that the one or three out of 20 running p2p is 
going to be very noticable.
Try giving those 50 equal access to the full 10 megs and see what 
happens then, if you don't throttle the p2p.





Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
Hi,


  
If your network can't handle a small amount of p2p
  
  
traffic, you have bigger issues. :)

Travis
Microserv


  
  


  
  
George Rogato wrote:


  How do you cap the encrypted stuff?


Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
Hi,

First let me say that we cap p2p traffic during the business day, 
but
otherwise we let it run wide open. However, we sell our connections 
based on speed. Whatever they pay for is what they get... none of 
this burstable stuff, etc. If they want 512k, they pay for 512k. If 
they want 1meg, they pay for 1meg.

The problem with bandwidth caps of xx gigs per month is that NOBODY
else is doing it... not DSL, not Cable, not any of my wireless 
competitors, etc. Once you start putting that limitation on their 
connection, they will start switching to something that does not have 
caps. If you have bandwidth limits in place already, there is no need 
for the monthly limits. (This does not mean we allow 24x7 bandwidth 
usage, but we allow "reasonable" usage).

Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:


  I think the way to go is to be able to identify the various types 
of
traffic and rate limit them.
And once we can do this, then it's time to pull out the menu of 
various offerings we can provide.
Want a 3 meg x 3 meg burstable connection with a sustained traffic 
rate of 1meg x 256k and bandwidth cap of x gigs, it's price "a", 
want a higher something in your package, it's price "b". Want 
something different, then it's price "c".

The sub can choose. Once they choose they know what they bought.




Mark Nash wrote:
  
  
This is a good debate.

What you mention here, George, is something that's been on my mind
for the
last year or so.  As Lingo/Slingbox/Netflix/Vonage/etc/etc/etc make 
$$$ off
of our connections, where's our cut?  The customer is paying for a
connection, yes, but at what point do we start charging more as 
this content
proliferates through our networks?  Bandwidth is getting cheaper 
per meg,
you can get a bigger pipe for less per meg, you can do things to 
lower the
cost of bandwidth.

However, that should give US a better cash flow model, so we're 
not so squeezed out that we feel like not providing service 
anymore to folks who desperately want it.  With more and more apps 
providing high-throughput
content, it could easily offset the savings that can be realized by 
going
with a bigger/cheaper pipe.  IF IT IS UNCHECKED.

My whole part in this discussion has been focused on not letting 
our customers cost us more than they are paying us, and I still 
say that deploying a system that allows us to be compensated for 
heavy usage is a valuable consideration in an

Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

We are using Mikrotik to cap the p2p stuff. Yes, some stuff is going to 
get through but very little overall... and you can't stop 100% of it 
all the time. If your network can't handle a small amount of p2p 
traffic, you have bigger issues. :)


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

How do you cap the encrypted stuff?


Travis Johnson wrote:

Hi,

First let me say that we cap p2p traffic during the business day, but 
otherwise we let it run wide open. However, we sell our connections 
based on speed. Whatever they pay for is what they get... none of 
this burstable stuff, etc. If they want 512k, they pay for 512k. If 
they want 1meg, they pay for 1meg.


The problem with bandwidth caps of xx gigs per month is that NOBODY 
else is doing it... not DSL, not Cable, not any of my wireless 
competitors, etc. Once you start putting that limitation on their 
connection, they will start switching to something that does not have 
caps. If you have bandwidth limits in place already, there is no need 
for the monthly limits. (This does not mean we allow 24x7 bandwidth 
usage, but we allow "reasonable" usage).


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:
I think the way to go is to be able to identify the various types of 
traffic and rate limit them.
And once we can do this, then it's time to pull out the menu of 
various offerings we can provide.
Want a 3 meg x 3 meg burstable connection with a sustained traffic 
rate of 1meg x 256k and bandwidth cap of x gigs, it's price "a", 
want a higher something in your package, it's price "b". Want 
something different, then it's price "c".


The sub can choose. Once they choose they know what they bought.




Mark Nash wrote:

This is a good debate.

What you mention here, George, is something that's been on my mind 
for the
last year or so.  As Lingo/Slingbox/Netflix/Vonage/etc/etc/etc make 
$$$ off

of our connections, where's our cut?  The customer is paying for a
connection, yes, but at what point do we start charging more as 
this content
proliferates through our networks?  Bandwidth is getting cheaper 
per meg,
you can get a bigger pipe for less per meg, you can do things to 
lower the

cost of bandwidth.

However, that should give US a better cash flow model, so we're not so
squeezed out that we feel like not providing service anymore to 
folks who
desperately want it.  With more and more apps providing 
high-throughput
content, it could easily offset the savings that can be realized by 
going

with a bigger/cheaper pipe.  IF IT IS UNCHECKED.

My whole part in this discussion has been focused on not letting our
customers cost us more than they are paying us, and I still say that
deploying a system that allows us to be compensated for heavy usage 
is a
valuable consideration in any business plan for an ISP.  Bandwidth 
shaping,
bandwidth caps, bill for overages, dedicated bandwidth option.  If 
you have
this in place, you really need not worry about anything else with 
respect to

high bandwidth usage.

IMHO.

Thanks everyone for listening to my half-rant.  I'm going to get 
something

done now. ;)

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - From: "George Rogato" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC



Another thought is

Why wouldn't Vuze have to pay Comcast for using the Comcast 
network to

support it's business plan.

If they are relying on Comcasts network to store and send files to 
it's

customer base, why should they be treated for a free ride instead of
using a hosting provider like Akamia.

Guess that is just as a significant point as any other, the fair
compensation for services?





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Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

First let me say that we cap p2p traffic during the business day, but 
otherwise we let it run wide open. However, we sell our connections 
based on speed. Whatever they pay for is what they get... none of this 
burstable stuff, etc. If they want 512k, they pay for 512k. If they want 
1meg, they pay for 1meg.


The problem with bandwidth caps of xx gigs per month is that NOBODY else 
is doing it... not DSL, not Cable, not any of my wireless competitors, 
etc. Once you start putting that limitation on their connection, they 
will start switching to something that does not have caps. If you have 
bandwidth limits in place already, there is no need for the monthly 
limits. (This does not mean we allow 24x7 bandwidth usage, but we allow 
"reasonable" usage).


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:
I think the way to go is to be able to identify the various types of 
traffic and rate limit them.
And once we can do this, then it's time to pull out the menu of 
various offerings we can provide.
Want a 3 meg x 3 meg burstable connection with a sustained traffic 
rate of 1meg x 256k and bandwidth cap of x gigs, it's price "a", want 
a higher something in your package, it's price "b". Want something 
different, then it's price "c".


The sub can choose. Once they choose they know what they bought.




Mark Nash wrote:

This is a good debate.

What you mention here, George, is something that's been on my mind 
for the
last year or so.  As Lingo/Slingbox/Netflix/Vonage/etc/etc/etc make 
$$$ off

of our connections, where's our cut?  The customer is paying for a
connection, yes, but at what point do we start charging more as this 
content
proliferates through our networks?  Bandwidth is getting cheaper per 
meg,
you can get a bigger pipe for less per meg, you can do things to 
lower the

cost of bandwidth.

However, that should give US a better cash flow model, so we're not so
squeezed out that we feel like not providing service anymore to folks 
who

desperately want it.  With more and more apps providing high-throughput
content, it could easily offset the savings that can be realized by 
going

with a bigger/cheaper pipe.  IF IT IS UNCHECKED.

My whole part in this discussion has been focused on not letting our
customers cost us more than they are paying us, and I still say that
deploying a system that allows us to be compensated for heavy usage is a
valuable consideration in any business plan for an ISP.  Bandwidth 
shaping,
bandwidth caps, bill for overages, dedicated bandwidth option.  If 
you have
this in place, you really need not worry about anything else with 
respect to

high bandwidth usage.

IMHO.

Thanks everyone for listening to my half-rant.  I'm going to get 
something

done now. ;)

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - From: "George Rogato" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vuze / Comcast / Peer to Peer / FCC



Another thought is

Why wouldn't Vuze have to pay Comcast for using the Comcast network to
support it's business plan.

If they are relying on Comcasts network to store and send files to it's
customer base, why should they be treated for a free ride instead of
using a hosting provider like Akamia.

Guess that is just as a significant point as any other, the fair
compensation for services?





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[WISPA] vlans

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I will be the first to admit that I know very little about VLANs. I 
understand the concept and even how to configure them (somewhat). 
Currently our entire network is fully routed and switched without any 
VLANs. However, we are starting to see a problem on larger tower 
locations where we have 6-10 AP's all plugged into the same ethernet 
switch, and then into a router before it gets to our backbone. I think 
what we are seeing are ARP broadcast storms, etc. and it affects all the 
AP's on that switch at the same time. Ping times to customers and the 
AP's go up to 1500-2000ms, yet we never see the traffic on the router 
itself.


My question is this: Could I enable VLANs on the switch, and put each AP 
into it's own VLAN and then make the port the router is plugged into the 
"trunk" port? Would this stop the broadcasts from affecting other AP's 
on that switch?


Is there a better solution? What is everyone else doing?

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] EarthLink Says No More Money for Existing Muni Networks

[Travis Johnson]

Can you imagine trying to partner with 500 WISP's around the country? 
What a nightmare. Different equipment, different troubleshooting, 
different everything. It would never work.


Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:

Like we didn't see it comming :-)

The key statement I saw was... "no more investment, unless a change in 
model", or something like that.
What Earthlinks should be doing is staying focused on help desk 
support, content, and value add, partnering with existing providers 
that have models that work. Meaning partner with successful WISPs, not 
try and become one.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: [WISPA] EarthLink Says No More Money for Existing Muni Networks




http://wifinetnews.com/archives/008052.html


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Re: [WISPA] PacWireless Sector

[Travis Johnson]

Sorry, I forgot when I was looking I needed a 120 degree h-pol sector. 
And I don't really like their antenna config (bottom stand-off style 
mounting) for a sector. It works great for an omni, but sectors should 
mount in the middle directly behind the antenna if possible.


Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

http://www.pacwireless.com/products/sector.shtml


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 5:46 PM

  Subject: Re: [WISPA] PacWireless Sector


  No, PacWireless doesn't sell a h-pol 2.4ghz sector. I checked before I bought 
the Tranzeo.

  Travis
  Microserv

  Ryan Langseth wrote: 
I think Tranzeo H. Sectors are Pac Wireless Antennas?  We have also had

good luck with Tranzeo Sectors,  although the towers where we have them
deployed are 100% Tranzeo (AP radio, antenna, and CPE).

Ryan

On Sat, 2007-11-17 at 16:34 -0700, Travis Johnson wrote:
  Hi,

We have used a LOT of PacWireless 2.4ghz horizontal omni's and they work 
great. I have never used any PacWireless 2.4ghz sectors, but we do have 
some Tranzeo 2.4ghz sectors (horizontal) that work good and are affordable.


Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
I'm looking (again) at putting up another tower.  The tower I have now is 5 
GHz with two sectors of PacWireless and MTI.  The MTI ones are outperforming 
the PacWireless ones, but I have never really looked into it.  It could be 
because I bought a 5.4 GHz band antenna so I could do 5.3 or 5.7 with little 
loss.

Anyway

Looking at 2.4 GHz sectors for the new tower.  The PacWireless ones are less 
than a third of the MTI.  That's a big difference.  Should I really expect that 
kind of performance difference?  I would love to use all high-end equipment, 
but I'm still on a shoe-string budget.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




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Re: [WISPA] PacWireless Sector

[Travis Johnson]

No, PacWireless doesn't sell a h-pol 2.4ghz sector. I checked before I
bought the Tranzeo.

Travis
Microserv

Ryan Langseth wrote:

  I think Tranzeo H. Sectors are Pac Wireless Antennas?  We have also had
good luck with Tranzeo Sectors,  although the towers where we have them
deployed are 100% Tranzeo (AP radio, antenna, and CPE).

Ryan

On Sat, 2007-11-17 at 16:34 -0700, Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
Hi,

We have used a LOT of PacWireless 2.4ghz horizontal omni's and they work 
great. I have never used any PacWireless 2.4ghz sectors, but we do have 
some Tranzeo 2.4ghz sectors (horizontal) that work good and are affordable.

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:


  I'm looking (again) at putting up another tower.  The tower I have now is 5 GHz with two sectors of PacWireless and MTI.  The MTI ones are outperforming the PacWireless ones, but I have never really looked into it.  It could be because I bought a 5.4 GHz band antenna so I could do 5.3 or 5.7 with little loss.

Anyway

Looking at 2.4 GHz sectors for the new tower.  The PacWireless ones are less than a third of the MTI.  That's a big difference.  Should I really expect that kind of performance difference?  I would love to use all high-end equipment, but I'm still on a shoe-string budget.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




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Re: [WISPA] PacWireless Sector

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

We have used a LOT of PacWireless 2.4ghz horizontal omni's and they work 
great. I have never used any PacWireless 2.4ghz sectors, but we do have 
some Tranzeo 2.4ghz sectors (horizontal) that work good and are affordable.


Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

I'm looking (again) at putting up another tower.  The tower I have now is 5 GHz 
with two sectors of PacWireless and MTI.  The MTI ones are outperforming the 
PacWireless ones, but I have never really looked into it.  It could be because 
I bought a 5.4 GHz band antenna so I could do 5.3 or 5.7 with little loss.

Anyway

Looking at 2.4 GHz sectors for the new tower.  The PacWireless ones are less 
than a third of the MTI.  That's a big difference.  Should I really expect that 
kind of performance difference?  I would love to use all high-end equipment, 
but I'm still on a shoe-string budget.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




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[WISPA] cards

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I am only posting this here because I know a lot of people are running 
Imagestream routers... I have a used dual DS3 card (532DE) that we no 
longer need (upgraded to an OC3). Hit me off list if you are interested.


thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?

[Travis Johnson]

Yes, you can. We have about 50 of them doing just that.

Travis
Microserv

Mark Nash wrote:

  I remember now.  The 9606 doesn't do e-mail notification.  That was
important for me.  You can set up e-mail address recipients and assign a
severity to each one of them: Informational, Warning, Critical.

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?


  
  
Mike Hammett wrote:
 > The 17 does environmental monitoring as well.

Um, no it doesn't.

AP9606 - Basic Web/SNMP Management card
http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=AP9606

AP9617 - Advanced Web/SNMP Management (email capability etc.)
http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=AP9617

AP9619 - Advanced Web/SNMP Management with Environmental monitoring
http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=AP9619




  - Original Message - From: "Mark Nash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?


  
  
Gino, how does that differ from the ap9617?

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - From: "Gino Villarini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?


$125 for the snmp card?

We are buying the ap9606 for $50

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:48 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?

UPS - $45 on ebay (buy one without batteries)
SNMP card - $125 on ebay
2 batteries & 2 outdoor battery compartments: $150-$175 (more,

  

  
  depending
  
  

  
on
battery quality).  I get mine at Bimart.
misc connectors & wire $20

I had one site up for 36 hours with Trango Tlink, small switch, and
Tranzeo
AP.  I thnk that's best-case-scenario.

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - From: "George Rogato"

  

  
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  
  

  
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?




  Not sure how much I need really. It's the downtime.
This one pop has a trango, a wrap a metro and a cheap switch. Usually
  

when


  it looses power it could be 24 hours or more.

With your set up, how much do you pay including the 2 rv batteries and
  

how


  long have you had for a power outage?

I just ordered one of the cheapo generics for my house to check out.
  

But


  generic usually leaves that feeling of uncertainty that makes me
  

uneasy.


  

Mark Nash wrote:
  
  
George, are you really needing that much?  3KVA?  Or is it the higher
battery capacity you're wanting?

I buy used APC Smart-UPS SU700NET from ebay, without batteries.  Then

  

I


  
buy
a couple RV batteries and hook them up (outside the enclosure, of
course).
I put in a AP9617 SNMP device and it gives me a little remote control
w/e-mail notification.  Doesn't do everything I want (PDU-ability to
power
off each receptacle individually, watchdog).

On a remote site, it'll give anywhere from 12-24 hours depending on

  

load


  
&
whatchya got out there...

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - From: "George Rogato"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:27 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?




  I need to buy a few ups's for some remote pops.

I was looking at APC and the place I buy stuff from had these:

http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?ID=52353&C=216&S=-1

Is this worth buying, or should I go with APC at twice the price?


  

  

  

  
  http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA3000
  
  

  

  

  
-- 
George Rogato

W

Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Again, you need to be careful... the charging unit in the smaller UPS
systems (700, 1000, 1400) is not designed to run for 3-4 days to charge
up 10 batteries that were drained from an outage. You will burn up the
UPS.

I would not recommend more than 4 external batteries on any small UPS.

Travis
Microserv

Mark Nash wrote:

  Hooked up properly, you should be able to put in as many as you want/have
space for.

Can anyone share how to hook up batteries in parallel vs. series?

Also, once you put in the SNMP card, you can tell it how many external
batteries you have.  This is a way of estimating how much runtime you will
have.  It's not accurate, because you're using different batteries than it
expects.  For 2 batteries, I enter in 4 external batteries for this value.
It is as close as I've found you can get it.

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?


  
  
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try one.

I'm wondering how many batteries I can gang together using the ups you
mentioned.

George


Mark Nash wrote:


  UPS - $45 on ebay (buy one without batteries)
SNMP card - $125 on ebay
2 batteries & 2 outdoor battery compartments: $150-$175 (more, depending
on battery quality).  I get mine at Bimart.
misc connectors & wire $20

I had one site up for 36 hours with Trango Tlink, small switch, and
Tranzeo AP.  I thnk that's best-case-scenario.

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - From: "George Rogato"
  

  
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  
  

  To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?


  
  
Not sure how much I need really. It's the downtime.
This one pop has a trango, a wrap a metro and a cheap switch. Usually
when it looses power it could be 24 hours or more.

With your set up, how much do you pay including the 2 rv batteries and
how long have you had for a power outage?

I just ordered one of the cheapo generics for my house to check out.
But generic usually leaves that feeling of uncertainty that makes me
uneasy.



Mark Nash wrote:


  George, are you really needing that much?  3KVA?  Or is it the higher
battery capacity you're wanting?

I buy used APC Smart-UPS SU700NET from ebay, without batteries.  Then
I buy
a couple RV batteries and hook them up (outside the enclosure, of
course).
I put in a AP9617 SNMP device and it gives me a little remote control
w/e-mail notification.  Doesn't do everything I want (PDU-ability to
power
off each receptacle individually, watchdog).

On a remote site, it'll give anywhere from 12-24 hours depending on
load &
whatchya got out there...

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - From: "George Rogato"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:27 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?


  
  
I need to buy a few ups's for some remote pops.

I was looking at APC and the place I buy stuff from had these:

http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?ID=52353&C=216&S=-1

Is this worth buying, or should I go with APC at twice the price?



  

  

  
  http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA3000
  
  

  

  


-- 
George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

http://signup.wispa.org/



  

  


  

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  ---
  

  

  
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Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?

[Travis Johnson]

Just bought 5 of them on ebay for $50 each, including shipping. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Gino Villarini wrote:

I have not told you my source :-)

 

Gino A. Villarini 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 9:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?

 


And now you just created a bidding war on ebay for them... :(

Travis
Microserv

Gino Villarini wrote: 


$125 for the snmp card?
 
We are buying the ap9606 for $50
 
Gino A. Villarini

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:48 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?
 
UPS - $45 on ebay (buy one without batteries)

SNMP card - $125 on ebay
2 batteries & 2 outdoor battery compartments: $150-$175 (more, depending
on 
battery quality).  I get mine at Bimart.

misc connectors & wire $20
 
I had one site up for 36 hours with Trango Tlink, small switch, and
Tranzeo 
AP.  I thnk that's best-case-scenario.
 
Mark Nash

UnwiredOnline
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
 
- Original Message - 
From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "WISPA General List" 
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org> 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 2:32 PM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?
 
 
  


Not sure how much I need really. It's the downtime.
This one pop has a trango, a wrap a metro and a cheap switch.
Usually
	

when 
  


it looses power it could be 24 hours or more.
	 
	With your set up, how much do you pay including the 2 rv

batteries and
	

how 
  


long have you had for a power outage?
	 
	I just ordered one of the cheapo generics for my house to check

out.
	

But 
  


generic usually leaves that feeling of uncertainty that makes me
	


uneasy.
  

	 
	 
	Mark Nash wrote:
	


George, are you really needing that much?  3KVA?  Or is
it the higher
battery capacity you're wanting?
		 
		I buy used APC Smart-UPS SU700NET from ebay, without

batteries.  Then
		  

I 
  


buy
a couple RV batteries and hook them up (outside the
enclosure, of 
		course).

I put in a AP9617 SNMP device and it gives me a little
remote control
w/e-mail notification.  Doesn't do everything I want
(PDU-ability to 
		power

off each receptacle individually, watchdog).
		 
		On a remote site, it'll give anywhere from 12-24 hours

depending on
		  

load 
  


&
whatchya got out there...
		 
		Mark Nash

UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
		 
		- Original Message - 
		From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
		To: "WISPA General List" 
<mailto:wireless@wispa.org> 
		Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:27 AM

Subject: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?
		 
		 
		  


I need to buy a few ups's for some remote pops.
			 
			I was looking at APC and the place I buy stuff

from had these:
			 
	

http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?ID=52353&C=216&S=-1
			 
			Is this worth buying, or should I go with APC at

twice the price?
			 
			 
			


http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA3000
  

			 
			-- 
			George Rogato
			 
			Welcome to WISPA
			 
			www.wispa.org
			 
			http://signup.wispa.org/
			 
			 
			 
			



--
  


--
		  


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-

Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?

[Travis Johnson]

And now you just created a bidding war on ebay for them... :(

Travis
Microserv

Gino Villarini wrote:

  $125 for the snmp card?

We are buying the ap9606 for $50

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:48 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?

UPS - $45 on ebay (buy one without batteries)
SNMP card - $125 on ebay
2 batteries & 2 outdoor battery compartments: $150-$175 (more, depending
on 
battery quality).  I get mine at Bimart.
misc connectors & wire $20

I had one site up for 36 hours with Trango Tlink, small switch, and
Tranzeo 
AP.  I thnk that's best-case-scenario.

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?


  
  
Not sure how much I need really. It's the downtime.
This one pop has a trango, a wrap a metro and a cheap switch. Usually

  
  when 
  
  
it looses power it could be 24 hours or more.

With your set up, how much do you pay including the 2 rv batteries and

  
  how 
  
  
long have you had for a power outage?

I just ordered one of the cheapo generics for my house to check out.

  
  But 
  
  
generic usually leaves that feeling of uncertainty that makes me

  
  uneasy.
  
  


Mark Nash wrote:


  George, are you really needing that much?  3KVA?  Or is it the higher
battery capacity you're wanting?

I buy used APC Smart-UPS SU700NET from ebay, without batteries.  Then
  

  
  I 
  
  

  buy
a couple RV batteries and hook them up (outside the enclosure, of 
course).
I put in a AP9617 SNMP device and it gives me a little remote control
w/e-mail notification.  Doesn't do everything I want (PDU-ability to 
power
off each receptacle individually, watchdog).

On a remote site, it'll give anywhere from 12-24 hours depending on
  

  
  load 
  
  

  &
whatchya got out there...

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:27 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?


  
  
I need to buy a few ups's for some remote pops.

I was looking at APC and the place I buy stuff from had these:

http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?ID=52353&C=216&S=-1

Is this worth buying, or should I go with APC at twice the price?



  

  
  http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA3000
  
  

  

-- 
George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

http://signup.wispa.org/




  

  
  
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WISPA Want

Re: [WISPA] Which UPS to use?

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

There are MANY, MANY considerations here... as we have done the same 
thing at many tower sites:


First, make sure you fuse the cable coming out of the UPS to the battery 
bank. We use 60A and 100A fuses depending on if we use two or four 
batteries.


Second, I HIGHLY recommend sealed AGM type batteries. The ones at 
Walmart, etc. are not the same quality as the AGM batteries for UPS 
systems, and they have to be refilled with water about every 2-3 months 
(depending on how often they cycle, etc.). The AGM are completely sealed 
and designed for this type of use (thus that is the type in large UPS 
systems). They also do not leak even if broken, and are designed to 
operate in cold and hot environments.


And, with a 1000 UPS and two external AGM (110Ah) batteries, we can run 
4 AP's, a large HP switch and a backhaul radio for about 30 hours.


The type of battery (size, style, quality) can make a HUGE difference. 
Spend the extra money and get good batteries. :)


Travis
Microserv

John Valenti wrote:

Mark,

How much effort is involved in changing it over to the RV batteries?
You need to use two of them because that is what the SU700 is setup 
for, right?
It seems to do OK charging these batteries that are considerably 
larger than it was designed for?

Is the SU700NET the cheapest APC that accepts the smartslot cards?

I looked on EBay and only saw one listed, it was a buy-it-now for $25.

(George, RV batteries used to be about $60 at Costco / WalMart. )
thanks!

On November 12, at 2:42 PM November 12, Mark Nash wrote:

I buy used APC Smart-UPS SU700NET from ebay, without batteries.  Then 
I buy
a couple RV batteries and hook them up (outside the enclosure, of 
course).

I put in a AP9617 SNMP device and it gives me a little remote control
w/e-mail notification.  Doesn't do everything I want (PDU-ability to 
power

off each receptacle individually, watchdog).




 


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Re: [WISPA] Buyouts

[Travis Johnson]

Why not keep both company names and pricing? Then if a customer is upset 
with one company, they can switch to the other and you still keep them. ;)


Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

To those of you that have bought other WISPs:

How long after the purchase of that other WISP were you able to keep them on 
their existing pricing?  How likely (with adequate service level) were 
customers to stay?

I'm eyeing the purchase of another WISP, but their plans cost more than mine.  
I'd hate to buy them for a multiple of revenue, and then they all change to my 
plans, making breakeven take longer.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




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[WISPA] netflow

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Anyone have any suggestions for a good Netflow package (collector, 
reporting, archiving, etc.)? I am mainly interested in AS Souce and 
Destination, along with protocol information (% of http, etc.).


thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] traffic logging

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

They just want to see that user A went to site B at time C. They
basically just want to be Big Brother on their network (and it's a
government agency, so they can).

For the more technical people, the best packet tracking program I have
ever seen is IpAudit. We have run it on our own backbone for almost 3
years now. It somehow grabs every single packet, logs it, and then
saves it with _very_ minimal load on the PC. We have it running on a
P4/2.8ghz with 1GB of RAM and it keeps up fine with 120Mbps incoming x
50Mbps outgoing traffic (30,000pps total). It has a web front end that
enables my 1st level techs to check people's IP addresses to see if it
looks like they are infected with a virus, worm, etc. It really is a
quite amazing program, especially for free. The only problem is you
have to be somewhat technical to even use it, and my customer needs
something very simple to use.

Travis
Microserv

David E. Smith wrote:

  On Mon, October 29, 2007 9:01 pm, Travis Johnson wrote:

  
  
I have a large customer that is looking for a device that will log all
of their internet traffic in and out of their network.

  
  
What problem are they trying to solve, where they think this is what they
want?

This would take a LOT of disk space and a pretty hefty database,
especially if they want to retain this information for weeks or months.
They'll also need a fairly clever person around to sort things out,
separating the wheat of a given Web request from the chaff of random ICMP
traffic and other background noise (or even more computing horsepower to
try to precompute the associations between, say, "DNS lookup" and "Web
request").

I can't think of any off-the-shelf product that fills this niche right
off. If they really need this and nothing else will do, feel free to write
it. The scary part is that some people will blissfully ignore the privacy
implications and buy one, possibly making you rich in the process :D

David Smith
MVN.net




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[WISPA] traffic logging

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I have a large customer that is looking for a device that will log all 
of their internet traffic in and out of their network. However, unlike 
Ethereal or anything like that, they need something that is _very_ easy 
to use (web interface, with full logs so they can go back months at a 
time). Ideally they want to be able to bring up a webpage and then 
gradually drill down to find the info they are looking for (like 
xx.xx.xx.xx went to ebay.com, etc.). They already have content filtering 
and SPAM protection in place, they just need a traffic logging device.


On the technical side, it would be nice to have a box that would run in 
promiscuous mode so we could just mirror a port on their switch rather 
than having it run in-line. We are very technical, so if we need to 
build a unix box for a free or low-cost application to run, that's no 
problem. We just haven't been able to find anything that is easy to use 
for the end user.


thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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[WISPA] Trango 900mhz

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Still looking for used Trango 900mhz AP's. Please reply off-list.

thanks,

Travis
Microserv


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Re: [WISPA] 5.3Ghz bandpass filters

[Travis Johnson]

Tom,

Maybe this is a dumb question, but I assume you are using antennas rated 
for 5.3ghz at the AP and CPE side? We have seen some antennas 
(PacWireless dishes) that are rated for 5.8ghz work perfectly well at 
5.3ghz... but then we have seen other antennas rated for 5.8ghz that 
don't work very well at all below 5.700ghz.


Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:
Does anyone know where I can buy a cost effective 5.3Ghz Full band 
pass filter?


Further Food for thought:
One of the biggest differences that we have noticed, using OEM gear 
(MB's with mpci Radios), compared to our first generation Trango 
network, is how much more interference we get at APs.
I believe this is because Trango had quality filter designs embedded 
into their solutions, allthough I'm not an electrical engineer to 
confirm that. With the OEM gear, I frequently get a good 20db lower 
signal strength at an AP than I do from the CPE side.  (with same gain 
antennas and same TX power levels) We usually go through the motions 
of swapping Cards, PS, and MBs as well as fine alignments, to double 
check. This had also been seen more frequently where we had tried Omni 
installs, and more susceptable to interference.  Sometimes we could 
solve it with narrower beam antennas, but in many cases that was just 
not good enough.  In most cases we where easilly able to find and use 
external 2.4G and 900Mhz Filters, which would immediately gain us a 
good 15db or so, and solve the link problems.  So two thumbs up for 
external filters. Truthfully, in the last two months we've needed more 
filters, than the within the complete last 7 years we've been in this 
industry. I attribute this to our larger use of 4 port OEM systems.  
In today's case, we had 5.8Ghz interference that we thought was self 
interference from our large number of adjacent sectors, so decided to 
try 5.3Ghz.  We used a Trango built-in spectrum scanner to confirm 
there was no noise at 5.3Ghz. However, when using an OEM 5.3Ghz radio 
w/ external AP 20deg panel antenna, we had a 20db loss of signal on 
the AP side, making the link unusable (-64 at CPE,.-85 at AP).  We 
believe its out-of-band interference or over powering from the near by 
colocated high power paging antennas at the same horizontal plane.  
This brought to my attention that we did not have a solution for a 
"5.3Ghz bandpass filter".  And it is needed.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

 



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** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


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