[WISPA] OT Question....
Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 09:14, Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Honestly, that's about all it tells you - the link went down at 8:12:19, up at 13:52:16, down again at 15:15:10 and up at 16:26:29. As far as the switch can tell, it thinks someone unplugged the cable. This could mean any of about a zillion things that would cause an Ethernet link to drop; the switch doesn't know the difference. -- David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
Don't know that there's much more you could get from this other than just up/down. Seems like a strong possibility of a bad cable to me, but of course, many other possibilities. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
So this is showing a hard disconnect? No chance the port was shut off? Any chance its a bad GBIC ? Tnx -B- Jason Hensley wrote: Don't know that there's much more you could get from this other than just up/down. Seems like a strong possibility of a bad cable to me, but of course, many other possibilities. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
show int gi0/21 cou err This could show if there are any errors and what type they are. On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.comwrote: Don't know that there's much more you could get from this other than just up/down. Seems like a strong possibility of a bad cable to me, but of course, many other possibilities. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Nick Huanca Inside Plant Manager GAW High-Speed Internet 1 Pearson Way Suite 100 Enfield, CT 06082 [office] (877) 5-GET-GAW (877.543.8429) x214 [direct] (413) 203-4910 [mobile] (413) 570-0120 www.gaw.com --- PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication and any files transmitted with it are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or legally privileged or protected information. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this message. Any use, disclosure, retransmission, distribution, copying, or taking of any action based on this information by any person or entity other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Because e-mail can be altered electronically, the integrity of this communication cannot be guaranteed. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
If you're seeing carrier-sens or alignment errors things like duplex could be the issue. Most common issue is cable crimp or continuity on the line. These will show up with input errors, etc. On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Nick Huanca n...@greataukwireless.comwrote: show int gi0/21 cou err This could show if there are any errors and what type they are. On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.comwrote: Don't know that there's much more you could get from this other than just up/down. Seems like a strong possibility of a bad cable to me, but of course, many other possibilities. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Nick Huanca Inside Plant Manager GAW High-Speed Internet 1 Pearson Way Suite 100 Enfield, CT 06082 [office] (877) 5-GET-GAW (877.543.8429) x214 [direct] (413) 203-4910 [mobile] (413) 570-0120 www.gaw.com --- PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication and any files transmitted with it are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or legally privileged or protected information. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this message. Any use, disclosure, retransmission, distribution, copying, or taking of any action based on this information by any person or entity other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Because e-mail can be altered electronically, the integrity of this communication cannot be guaranteed. -- Nick Huanca Inside Plant Manager GAW High-Speed Internet 1 Pearson Way Suite 100 Enfield, CT 06082 [office] (877) 5-GET-GAW (877.543.8429) x214 [direct] (413) 203-4910 [mobile] (413) 570-0120 www.gaw.com --- PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication and any files transmitted with it are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or legally privileged or protected information. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this message. Any use, disclosure, retransmission, distribution, copying, or taking of any action based on this information by any person or entity other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Because e-mail can be altered electronically, the integrity of this communication cannot be guaranteed. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
I've had that happen here when I picked up a LOT of RF on an ethernet cable. I've also seen it when a device didn't auto negotiate correctly with a Cisco switch (they seem to suck). I now force all of my Cisco switches to a set port speed rather than allowing auto negotiation. Just for kicks, replaces both ends, maybe the cable too. I've also started putting Ferrite beads on a lot of things. That seems to greatly help my ethernet stability. I also saw a port do this after a storm, I tried a different port and it's fine, so port damage from a power event of some kind. Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:14 AM Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
Does the wireless link by chance have the rapid port shutdown feature? If so, you may have a wireless link issue. -Kevin On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
To All, OK Its a fiber interface. The system has been working fine. Configuration is this: 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio 60ghz Gig Radio ---fiber 2960 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since. Both sites are rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop. OK Teaching moment... :-) For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting. Just really weird -B- Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
Its fiber. And I would think if it was an autonegotiate issue it would have been intermittent all along. It has been operating pretty nuch error free other than this event. But I guess I could try the ferrite beads on the fiber. Hey..It wouldn't hurt. :-P Tnx Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I've had that happen here when I picked up a LOT of RF on an ethernet cable. I've also seen it when a device didn't auto negotiate correctly with a Cisco switch (they seem to suck). I now force all of my Cisco switches to a set port speed rather than allowing auto negotiation. Just for kicks, replaces both ends, maybe the cable too. I've also started putting Ferrite beads on a lot of things. That seems to greatly help my ethernet stability. I also saw a port do this after a storm, I tried a different port and it's fine, so port damage from a power event of some kind. Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:14 AM Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
How close are these links? We find that at 0.10 in/hr of rain fall will cause our 60GHz link to drop and because of the Ethernet follows Wireless setting this also drops our Ethernet connection, normally we only see this in hard rain. On Fri, 2009-10-30 at 10:55 -0400, Bob Moldashel wrote: To All, OK Its a fiber interface. The system has been working fine. Configuration is this: 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio 60ghz Gig Radio ---fiber 2960 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since. Both sites are rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop. OK Teaching moment... :-) For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting. Just really weird -B- Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices. Did any of you show up during the outage? (I assume yes but have to ask) marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question To All, OK Its a fiber interface. The system has been working fine. Configuration is this: 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio 60ghz Gig Radio ---fiber 2960 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since. Both sites are rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop. OK Teaching moment... :-) For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting. Just really weird -B- Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
Yeah Yeah Yeah grin I've seen the flaky autonegociate thing do this on 10/100 cables. Just another thing to check on. Easy fix too marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question Its fiber. And I would think if it was an autonegotiate issue it would have been intermittent all along. It has been operating pretty nuch error free other than this event. But I guess I could try the ferrite beads on the fiber. Hey..It wouldn't hurt. :-P Tnx Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I've had that happen here when I picked up a LOT of RF on an ethernet cable. I've also seen it when a device didn't auto negotiate correctly with a Cisco switch (they seem to suck). I now force all of my Cisco switches to a set port speed rather than allowing auto negotiation. Just for kicks, replaces both ends, maybe the cable too. I've also started putting Ferrite beads on a lot of things. That seems to greatly help my ethernet stability. I also saw a port do this after a storm, I tried a different port and it's fine, so port damage from a power event of some kind. Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:14 AM Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
They are a block away. The rain was light and only occurred for a few hours that day. It rained like hell over the weekend without a hiccup. We also have 7 other 60 Ghz hops within the same 10 block radius with longer paths and they did not hiccup during the same time period. This link is the shortest. And I have radio logs from the one side which shows great RSSI and current draw so it was receiving and should have been transmitting. I have to add that I have switch logs from the other side and it shows that the side I can monitor the radio logs on during the outage went out first and the other side followed about 12 ms later. When the port comes back up it does the same thing. The radio monitored side then the far end. -B- Bret Clark wrote: How close are these links? We find that at 0.10 in/hr of rain fall will cause our 60GHz link to drop and because of the Ethernet follows Wireless setting this also drops our Ethernet connection, normally we only see this in hard rain. On Fri, 2009-10-30 at 10:55 -0400, Bob Moldashel wrote: To All, OK Its a fiber interface. The system has been working fine. Configuration is this: 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio 60ghz Gig Radio ---fiber 2960 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since. Both sites are rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop. OK Teaching moment... :-) For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting. Just really weird -B- Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
No Marlon K. Schafer wrote: That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices. Did any of you show up during the outage? (I assume yes but have to ask) marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question To All, OK Its a fiber interface. The system has been working fine. Configuration is this: 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio 60ghz Gig Radio ---fiber 2960 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since. Both sites are rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop. OK Teaching moment... :-) For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting. Just really weird -B- Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
One thing, I don't know what kind of RF backhauls you are using, but the Motorola PTP radios have a feature that disconnect the Ethernet briefly to reset any Spanning Tree functions on the switch. Check the radios and see if they are dropping briefly, causing the Ethernet disconnects. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bret Clark Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question How close are these links? We find that at 0.10 in/hr of rain fall will cause our 60GHz link to drop and because of the Ethernet follows Wireless setting this also drops our Ethernet connection, normally we only see this in hard rain. On Fri, 2009-10-30 at 10:55 -0400, Bob Moldashel wrote: To All, OK Its a fiber interface. The system has been working fine. Configuration is this: 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio 60ghz Gig Radio ---fiber 2960 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since. Both sites are rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop. OK Teaching moment... :-) For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting. Just really weird -B- Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
Perhaps this is a case of vandalism? Especially since it only happened during the time when people would be in the building. Or maybe the cleaning lady bumped something? marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question No Marlon K. Schafer wrote: That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices. Did any of you show up during the outage? (I assume yes but have to ask) marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question To All, OK Its a fiber interface. The system has been working fine. Configuration is this: 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio 60ghz Gig Radio ---fiber 2960 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since. Both sites are rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop. OK Teaching moment... :-) For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting. Just really weird -B- Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else? Tnx. -B- -B- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
Its on a commercial rooftop on both sides. Ladies from the cleaning union don't go up there. The cabinets are locked. The rooftops are alarmed and on CCTV on both sides. And it was a crappy day so nobody was out there sunning themselves. And it hasn't happened since. :-) I figured it out with further prodding of the network people. Seems the port is throwing a crapload of CRC errors but only intermittently. Sooo we will go back and look at the fiber, swap out patch cables, swap out the GBIC and last but not least swap out the radio. Thanks for everyones input. -B- Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Perhaps this is a case of vandalism? Especially since it only happened during the time when people would be in the building. Or maybe the cleaning lady bumped something? marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question No Marlon K. Schafer wrote: That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices. Did any of you show up during the outage? (I assume yes but have to ask) marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question To All, OK Its a fiber interface. The system has been working fine. Configuration is this: 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio 60ghz Gig Radio ---fiber 2960 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since. Both sites are rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop. OK Teaching moment... :-) For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting. Just really weird -B- Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15:10.273 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 14:15:11.314 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 16:26:29.667 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up I know the gig port is going up and down but does it tell you anything else
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
I still gotta side with Marlon on this one...cleaning ladies WILL cause CRC errors. This is networking 101 Bob, I'm disappointed in you...sigh Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 11:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question Its on a commercial rooftop on both sides. Ladies from the cleaning union don't go up there. The cabinets are locked. The rooftops are alarmed and on CCTV on both sides. And it was a crappy day so nobody was out there sunning themselves. And it hasn't happened since. :-) I figured it out with further prodding of the network people. Seems the port is throwing a crapload of CRC errors but only intermittently. Sooo we will go back and look at the fiber, swap out patch cables, swap out the GBIC and last but not least swap out the radio. Thanks for everyones input. -B- Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Perhaps this is a case of vandalism? Especially since it only happened during the time when people would be in the building. Or maybe the cleaning lady bumped something? marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question No Marlon K. Schafer wrote: That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices. Did any of you show up during the outage? (I assume yes but have to ask) marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question To All, OK Its a fiber interface. The system has been working fine. Configuration is this: 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio 60ghz Gig Radio ---fiber 2960 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since. Both sites are rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop. OK Teaching moment... :-) For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting. Just really weird -B- Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy, not the network guy. But its kind of on topic because its connected to a wireless link. :-) What does this tell everybody??? Its from a Cisco 2960 switch. Oct 27 08:12:18.407 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 08:12:19.455 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to down Oct 27 13:52:16.606 EST: %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 13:52:18.661 EST: %LINEPROTO-5-UPDOWN: Line protocol on Interface GigabitEthernet0/21, changed state to up Oct 27 14:15
Re: [WISPA] OT Question....
Been there Done that. Had a power supply under a desk running a system once. We thought the customer was shutting it off every couple of weekends. Turned out to be cleaning people pushing the vacuum under the desk would hit the on/off switch. Turned the power supply to the side..No more problems. :-) -B- Brad Belton wrote: I still gotta side with Marlon on this one...cleaning ladies WILL cause CRC errors. This is networking 101 Bob, I'm disappointed in you...sigh Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 11:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question Its on a commercial rooftop on both sides. Ladies from the cleaning union don't go up there. The cabinets are locked. The rooftops are alarmed and on CCTV on both sides. And it was a crappy day so nobody was out there sunning themselves. And it hasn't happened since. :-) I figured it out with further prodding of the network people. Seems the port is throwing a crapload of CRC errors but only intermittently. Sooo we will go back and look at the fiber, swap out patch cables, swap out the GBIC and last but not least swap out the radio. Thanks for everyones input. -B- Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Perhaps this is a case of vandalism? Especially since it only happened during the time when people would be in the building. Or maybe the cleaning lady bumped something? marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question No Marlon K. Schafer wrote: That almost sounds like someone *physically* unplugging the devices. Did any of you show up during the outage? (I assume yes but have to ask) marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Question To All, OK Its a fiber interface. The system has been working fine. Configuration is this: 2960 --- fiber --- Gig Radio 60ghz Gig Radio ---fiber 2960 The interface went down twice in the same day. The radio never went down. the fiber tests fine and no one has screwed with it. They are short runs. This is a new deployment that has been up for about 6 weeks. Fiber is all multimode 62.5 mm. It has not been intermittent. It just went down hard twice one day and has been fine since. And when it went down it went down at 8:15 am and came back up at 2pm then went back down at 2pm and came back up at 4:30 and has been fine since. Both sites are rooftop locations and it was raining the day the event happened so no one was working in the vacinity of the equipment. And it has rained on and off here for the past 3 weeks with no issues otherwise so I am ruling out weather. The radio link never goes down. Ever. So its not rain taking out the 60 Ghz. hop. OK Teaching moment... :-) For those of you that are not aware most Gigabit radios when they loose their RF link shut down their gig ports on both sides to indicate a hard failure. This obviously expedites things like OSPF and such for rerouting. Just really weird -B- Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Hi Bob, This shows the port simply going up and down. And noting more. Is this a Fiber Port ? Or Copper ? If copper, then the wire needs to be tested, (no loose connector, right kind of cable, cat6, and the cable not exceeding 300ft,etc.) If it is fiber then, check the fiber, clean the fiber, check the SFP/GBIC, clear them, reseat them, confirm that you are using right cable (single mode or MultiMode) and the SFP/GBIC's Match, and depending on the length of cable, make sure your light levels are good, there is no kink in cable etc) Don't mix MultiMode cables with Single Mode Cables Connectors.. TIP, fiber cables / SFP/GBIC, you can test each side by doing a LoopBack on the Far end... To do a loopback in fiber world, you just have to find a way to connect the two ends of the fiber cable together. Additionally, you may want to setup the devices on both side to be Fixed 1000FDX rather than Auto negotiate. Regards Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT Question Sorry guys. I know its a little OT but I am the RF guy
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
And if you need Windows applications, then this may work for you; http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxoffice/ John Steve wrote: Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer. The install is easier than window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will find that in the end you are ahead of the game. Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced ubuntu/kubuntu. I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back. Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every computer we buy. :-) Steve -- Travis Johnson wrote: Jeff, A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the headaches of a Linux box for family use. Travis Microserv Jeff Broadwick wrote: Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
LOL yeah, I hear ya. Here, when this happens it always showed the mac addy of the customer's radio. Not helpful. I'll figure it out eventually. Just very frustrating that XP handled this just fine but Vista, which is supposed to be s much better, can't deal with it. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Scott Lambert wrote: On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Here's an example from yesterday. My new laptop is Vista (the old one has a concrete floor induced broken screen). There is a device somewhere on my network that is answering arp requests incorrectly. No matter what IP addy I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy. Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just fine. So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine. As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on Windows. You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is breaking arp... I had that issue one time, but I was lucky enough to have a sub with a MAC to help me fix it. Everytime he put his mac online it gave an ip conflict no matter what IP was used. The good thing about the mac was it gave the mac addy of the device that was the conflict. When I plugged my IBM laptop in everything was fine, no ip conflict. Anyway, I looked up the mac addy and went to the customer. Even though it showed the mac addy of the antenna, it was a $5 gigafast switch that was the problem. I dropped it in the trash, installed a 3com and was good to go. So, go borrow a MAC and it will help you fix this. Brian like Quicken these days. I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my checkbook and gave me some nice reports. I'm sick and tired of everyone trying to force services and other crap down my throat. http://moneydance.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Cause it doesn't work right. Here's an example from yesterday. My new laptop is Vista (the old one has a concrete floor induced broken screen). There is a device somewhere on my network that is answering arp requests incorrectly. No matter what IP addy I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy. Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just fine. So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine. It takes 25 steps vs. 2 to change ip addresses. It's SLLLWWW. It's invasive. Why does it have to detect a connection to the outside world Who does it contact? What does it send/rec.? It's bloated. If I could get a version of Winblows that just worked as an OS and didn't include media players, DVD burners etc. I'd take it in a heart beat. Just like Quicken these days. I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my checkbook and gave me some nice reports. I'm sick and tired of everyone trying to force services and other crap down my throat. Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Here's an example from yesterday. My new laptop is Vista (the old one has a concrete floor induced broken screen). There is a device somewhere on my network that is answering arp requests incorrectly. No matter what IP addy I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy. Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just fine. So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine. As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on Windows. You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is breaking arp... like Quicken these days. I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my checkbook and gave me some nice reports. I'm sick and tired of everyone trying to force services and other crap down my throat. http://moneydance.com/ -- Scott LambertKC5MLE Unix SysAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Scott Lambert wrote: On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Here's an example from yesterday. My new laptop is Vista (the old one has a concrete floor induced broken screen). There is a device somewhere on my network that is answering arp requests incorrectly. No matter what IP addy I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy. Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just fine. So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine. As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on Windows. You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is breaking arp... I had that issue one time, but I was lucky enough to have a sub with a MAC to help me fix it. Everytime he put his mac online it gave an ip conflict no matter what IP was used. The good thing about the mac was it gave the mac addy of the device that was the conflict. When I plugged my IBM laptop in everything was fine, no ip conflict. Anyway, I looked up the mac addy and went to the customer. Even though it showed the mac addy of the antenna, it was a $5 gigafast switch that was the problem. I dropped it in the trash, installed a 3com and was good to go. So, go borrow a MAC and it will help you fix this. Brian like Quicken these days. I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my checkbook and gave me some nice reports. I'm sick and tired of everyone trying to force services and other crap down my throat. http://moneydance.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Why should Windows refuse to accept an IP just because there is a conflict on the network? As long as that machine has a unique address, why should it care about the duplicate? Makes it hard to troubleshoot the network when your troubleshooting machine won't get an address. Scott Lambert wrote: On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Here's an example from yesterday. My new laptop is Vista (the old one has a concrete floor induced broken screen). There is a device somewhere on my network that is answering arp requests incorrectly. No matter what IP addy I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy. Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just fine. So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine. As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on Windows. You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is breaking arp... like Quicken these days. I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my checkbook and gave me some nice reports. I'm sick and tired of everyone trying to force services and other crap down my throat. http://moneydance.com/ -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
I've seen this as well in the past. Best to my recollection is has something to do with the consumer gateway routers. Or it had something to do with someones pc. I can't remember the actual situation, but I seen a bunch of times. One more reason why I like using the router built into the cpe and turn those cheap gateway routers into bridges. Scott Reed wrote: Why should Windows refuse to accept an IP just because there is a conflict on the network? As long as that machine has a unique address, why should it care about the duplicate? Makes it hard to troubleshoot the network when your troubleshooting machine won't get an address. Scott Lambert wrote: On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Here's an example from yesterday. My new laptop is Vista (the old one has a concrete floor induced broken screen). There is a device somewhere on my network that is answering arp requests incorrectly. No matter what IP addy I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy. Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just fine. So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine. As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on Windows. You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is breaking arp... like Quicken these days. I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my checkbook and gave me some nice reports. I'm sick and tired of everyone trying to force services and other crap down my throat. http://moneydance.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
My Windows XP Pro gives the MAC address of a duplicate ip address. It does not just pop up in a bubble on the desk top - - you have to look in the event viewer, but the info is there. Mac From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Scott Lambert wrote: On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Here's an example from yesterday. My new laptop is Vista (the old one has a concrete floor induced broken screen). There is a device somewhere on my network that is answering arp requests incorrectly. No matter what IP addy I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy. Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just fine. So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine. As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on Windows. You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is breaking arp... I had that issue one time, but I was lucky enough to have a sub with a MAC to help me fix it. Everytime he put his mac online it gave an ip conflict no matter what IP was used. The good thing about the mac was it gave the mac addy of the device that was the conflict. When I plugged my IBM laptop in everything was fine, no ip conflict. Anyway, I looked up the mac addy and went to the customer. Even though it showed the mac addy of the antenna, it was a $5 gigafast switch that was the problem. I dropped it in the trash, installed a 3com and was good to go. So, go borrow a MAC and it will help you fix this. Brian like Quicken these days. I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my checkbook and gave me some nice reports. I'm sick and tired of everyone trying to force services and other crap down my throat. http://moneydance.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
good to know Mac Dearman wrote: My Windows XP Pro gives the MAC address of a duplicate ip address. It does not just pop up in a bubble on the desk top - - you have to look in the event viewer, but the info is there. Mac From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Scott Lambert wrote: On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:21:37AM -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Here's an example from yesterday. My new laptop is Vista (the old one has a concrete floor induced broken screen). There is a device somewhere on my network that is answering arp requests incorrectly. No matter what IP addy I put on the Vista machine (or osx for that matter) it shows an IP address conflict and resorts to a 169.x.x.x IP addy. Any OS other than osx or Vista (both MS products these days) works just fine. So I have a brand new laptop that won't work here and I'm gonna have to waste who knows how much time tracing down a device, and spend money replacing it, that is otherwise working just fine. As much as I dislike Windows, you can't really blame that issue on Windows. You have to blame that one on the bogus hardware which is breaking arp... I had that issue one time, but I was lucky enough to have a sub with a MAC to help me fix it. Everytime he put his mac online it gave an ip conflict no matter what IP was used. The good thing about the mac was it gave the mac addy of the device that was the conflict. When I plugged my IBM laptop in everything was fine, no ip conflict. Anyway, I looked up the mac addy and went to the customer. Even though it showed the mac addy of the antenna, it was a $5 gigafast switch that was the problem. I dropped it in the trash, installed a 3com and was good to go. So, go borrow a MAC and it will help you fix this. Brian like Quicken these days. I'd pay MORE for a program that just balanced my checkbook and gave me some nice reports. I'm sick and tired of everyone trying to force services and other crap down my throat. http://moneydance.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Games. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office. We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but definitely slower, that's not meaningful. The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK. (Why it becomes unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments). We haven't had driver problems. We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista. Not many, but perhaps 50% more. The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in XP, in one place into several far flung places. It may make more sense but drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving the support guys nuts. Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now calling support. The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work. That just makes people mad at Microsoft. Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO (at a small cost). It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs. It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb. It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more and more popular and we accept that for our system. They have caused no problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively help each other the way early PC users used to do. There are only a tiny fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on Macintosh as the same or better. That argument doesn't fly anymore. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Hi, Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower? Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300 0001) - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Games. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office. We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but definitely slower, that's not meaningful. The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK. (Why it becomes unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments). We haven't had driver problems. We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista. Not many, but perhaps 50% more. The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in XP, in one place into several far flung places. It may make more sense but drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving the support guys nuts. Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now calling support. The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work. That just makes people mad at Microsoft. Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO (at a small cost). It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs. It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb. It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more and more popular and we accept that for our system. They have caused no problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively help each other the way early PC users used to do. There are only a tiny fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on Macintosh as the same or better. That argument doesn't fly anymore. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Hi, Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower? Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300 0001) - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Purchased an HP laptop at BestBuy yesterday for $599 that was $899 just 60 days ago. Now is the time for deals, Also purchased a $399 Compaq for one of my field guys. Simple and disposable as far as I am concerned. -B- On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 PM, D. Ryan Spott wrote: $1000.00 You need to get out more! :) Easy. ryan On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:32 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP laptop that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out of a Mac laptop is $1,400. Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: Mac OS. ryan On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods? Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see). Travis Microserv Steve wrote: Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer. The install is easier than window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will find that in the end you are ahead of the game. Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced ubuntu/kubuntu. I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back. Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every computer we buy. :-) Steve -- Travis Johnson wrote: Jeff, A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the headaches of a Linux box for family use. Travis Microserv Jeff Broadwick wrote: Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
FYI-Vista SP1 Beta is available now, I have loaded it on this laptop and another PC. **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Dell and HP still sell XP. They are big enough to make Microsoft bend on the Vista release issues. We only have this month left though as far as I can tell. My bet is if SP1 doesn't resolve most of the issues with Vista that Dell and the like will continue to pressure MS for a XP solution. This being mostly for business workstations. http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130657-c,xp/article.html http://www.osnews.com/story.php/17733/Dell-Resumes-Windows-XP-Sales-MS-To-Sell-Software-for-Cheap/ Anthony Will Broadband Corp. http://www.broadband-mn.com Jeff Broadwick wrote: Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Games. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office. We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but definitely slower, that's not meaningful. The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK. (Why it becomes unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments). We haven't had driver problems. We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista. Not many, but perhaps 50% more. The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in XP, in one place into several far flung places. It may make more sense but drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving the support guys nuts. Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now calling support. The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work. That just makes people mad at Microsoft. Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO (at a small cost). It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs. It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb. It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more and more popular and we accept that for our system. They have caused no problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively help each other the way early PC users used to do. There are only a tiny fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on Macintosh as the same or better. That argument doesn't fly anymore. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Hi, Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower? Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300 0001) - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Yes, you can do so with Dell. I just received an ad from them about one. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Broadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Games. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office. We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but definitely slower, that's not meaningful. The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK. (Why it becomes unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments). We haven't had driver problems. We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista. Not many, but perhaps 50% more. The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in XP, in one place into several far flung places. It may make more sense but drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving the support guys nuts. Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now calling support. The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work. That just makes people mad at Microsoft. Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO (at a small cost). It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs. It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb. It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more and more popular and we accept that for our system. They have caused no problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively help each other the way early PC users used to do. There are only a tiny fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on Macintosh as the same or better. That argument doesn't fly anymore. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Hi, Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower? Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300 0001) - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Hi, The least expensive MacBook on Apple's site is $1,099... and that's only a 13.3 screen. The HP's I purchased a couple months ago have 15.4 screens... they were $600 each brand new. The MacBook Pro (15 screen) starts at $1,999. Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: $1000.00 You need to get out more! :) Easy. ryan On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:32 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP laptop that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out of a Mac laptop is $1,400. Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: Mac OS. ryan On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods? Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see). Travis Microserv Steve wrote: Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer. The install is easier than window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will find that in the end you are ahead of the game. Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced ubuntu/kubuntu. I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back. Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every computer we buy. :-) Steve -- Travis Johnson wrote: Jeff, A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the headaches of a Linux box for family use. Travis Microserv Jeff Broadwick wrote: Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
For the ones that can't do it themselves, do you not have pc shops that still build white box solutions around you? They are more expensive, but you get it like Burger King, Have it your way! We are also a pc shop, and I can load windows 95 on it for you if I can still find a place to buy it for you. SHHH! but here is a little secret: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/005512.html I have Heard that you can do it for any version of Vista. HTH. -- Original Message -- From: Anthony Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:59:28 -0600 Dell and HP still sell XP. They are big enough to make Microsoft bend on the Vista release issues. We only have this month left though as far as I can tell. My bet is if SP1 doesn't resolve most of the issues with Vista that Dell and the like will continue to pressure MS for a XP solution. This being mostly for business workstations. http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130657-c,xp/article.html http://www.osnews.com/story.php/17733/Dell-Resumes-Windows-XP-Sales-MS-To-Sell-Software-for-Cheap/ Anthony Will Broadband Corp. http://www.broadband-mn.com Jeff Broadwick wrote: Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Games. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office. We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but definitely slower, that's not meaningful. The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK. (Why it becomes unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments). We haven't had driver problems. We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista. Not many, but perhaps 50% more. The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in XP, in one place into several far flung places. It may make more sense but drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving the support guys nuts. Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now calling support. The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work. That just makes people mad at Microsoft. Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO (at a small cost). It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs. It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb. It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more and more popular and we accept that for our system. They have caused no problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively help each other the way early PC users used to do. There are only a tiny fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on Macintosh as the same or better. That argument doesn't fly anymore. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Hi, Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower? Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, Jeff Broadwick wrote: I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? I have not used it extensively, but there are a number of users of Ubuntu. The large user base means good support on forums and mailing lists. Many recommend Kubuntu, but I am personally not a fan of KDE. KDE is a very easy to use system, though, because it is very similar in look and feel to Windows. Personally, I am using Fedora, which installs by default both Gnome and KDE. For a family computer, I'd go with Ubuntu/Kubuntu. For a geek computer, Fedora would be good. Either one will require a bit of time to get working with some things, but the end result is a good experience. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so easily. What? There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux. Do you use thousands of programs? Give me a list of the must have programs you use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that will accomplish what you are looking for. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Adobe Photoshop Scansoft Paperport Quickbooks iTunes (for my iPhone) Streets and Trips 2008 Radio Mobile Quark Xpress Visio thanks, Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so easily. What? There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux. Do you use thousands of programs? Give me a list of the must have programs you use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that will accomplish what you are looking for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
This is getting a little further astray, but what makes you think that Fedora is geekier than Ubuntu? The ladies tell me I'm pretty geeky, but I run Ubuntu and now you're stepping on my . Can we please agree that there is nothing inherently more geeky about one distro vs another - though Ubuntu happens to be used by more non-geeks than Fedora? g :) On Dec 10, 2007 11:46 AM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For a family computer, I'd go with Ubuntu/Kubuntu. For a geek computer, Fedora would be good. Either one will require a bit of time to get working with some things, but the end result is a good experience. -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC Sweeping Design LLC WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
There are too many Linux programs to count... unfortunately, most of them are garbage and so is the support. You get what you pay for. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so easily. What? There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux. Do you use thousands of programs? Give me a list of the must have programs you use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that will accomplish what you are looking for. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Travis Johnson wrote: Adobe Photoshop GIMP Scansoft Paperport Don't know what this one is. If it is a scanner driver, then there is one called sane for Linux. There is possibly more functionality in your app, but I am not familiar with what it is or does. Quickbooks GnuCash works well. It is not compatible with QB, but it's functionality is similar and even looks a lot like QB. I have moved most of my invoicing to an online solution (see https://butchevansconsulting.freshbooks.com/signup/) for a free trial for Freshbooks. It is a web based application, so it works for ANY OS. iTunes (for my iPhone) MP3? I am not an iTunes user, so perhaps I am missing what you are after here, but manipulating MP3 files and interacting with a cell phone (via bluetooth, USB or IR) is easy. There are MANY places to download music (legal places like iTunes). Streets and Trips 2008 I use google maps for this, but there is another program called GpsDrive that will provide you with similar functionality as Streets and Trips. The only thing that may be missing is the ability to export your trip data to your mobile phone, if you use that sort of functionality. For use in the car, I don't use my laptop OR phone. Instead, I use a GPS for the car, so perhaps there are other features that you can't get that I am not aware of. Radio Mobile Hmm...Not sure if RM will run under Linux with WINE, but I see instructions to install it, so I presume it will work. Quark Xpress Not sure what this is, either. Visio DIA. DIA is a diagramming tool with functionality that is similar (maybe better) than Visio. FWIW, the openoffice toolset is a MUCH better solution, IMO than Microsoft's Office suite. I use presentation software ALL the time (for the classes I teach), so to me, that is a VERY important requirement. One benefit (for me) to OpenOffice is that it will export directly to PDF format. It can open MS Office documents, and even write in that format. Evolution offers the email solution that is similar in function to Outlook, in that it has a contact manager, calendar function and can sync with Windows Mobile phones. Firefox is a better browser, but there is a distribution of Internet Explorer for Linux as well, if you have sites that require IE. There are THOUSANDS of other applications available. These are just a few examples. Many games are not going to run on Linux, but there are a LOT of games available for Linux, too. I am not a gamer, so I can't speak to what is and is not available for this. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Freshbooks is fantastic for service invoicing. It handles recurring billing with supporting payment gateways, and also gives you the option to send paper invoices (monthly, automatically!) for a little more than a dollar. Roger Coude just announced Linux-friendly 8.6.0 this morning. It's worked under WINE for a while now, but only after messing with .dlls. Here's his announcement: After intensive modifications in the program, it is now possible to run Radio Mobile in a Linux-Wine environment and obtain almost the same performance as in Windows. The changes also benefit Windows user because the drawing speed has increased, and the picture limit size jumped from 2000 to 5000 pixels. Unfortunalely, due to the modifications done to rmwdlx32.dll, update will have to be completed manually otherwise you will get a dll error (file rmcore.zip in the download page). To install under Linux, get the latest version of Wine, and run the Microsoft VBruntime installer. No more tricks with native dlls! The program just run fine with Wine built-in librairies! Note that all download from internet are doing fine at my home connexion (I use Kubuntu). Still to be tested behind a proxy... I have unlocked the map pixel size to 1 pixels for test purpose, but I do not garantee anything above 2000. Have fun! Roger 2007/12/10 Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Travis Johnson wrote: Adobe Photoshop GIMP Scansoft Paperport Don't know what this one is. If it is a scanner driver, then there is one called sane for Linux. There is possibly more functionality in your app, but I am not familiar with what it is or does. Quickbooks GnuCash works well. It is not compatible with QB, but it's functionality is similar and even looks a lot like QB. I have moved most of my invoicing to an online solution (see https://butchevansconsulting.freshbooks.com/signup/) for a free trial for Freshbooks. It is a web based application, so it works for ANY OS. iTunes (for my iPhone) MP3? I am not an iTunes user, so perhaps I am missing what you are after here, but manipulating MP3 files and interacting with a cell phone (via bluetooth, USB or IR) is easy. There are MANY places to download music (legal places like iTunes). Streets and Trips 2008 I use google maps for this, but there is another program called GpsDrive that will provide you with similar functionality as Streets and Trips. The only thing that may be missing is the ability to export your trip data to your mobile phone, if you use that sort of functionality. For use in the car, I don't use my laptop OR phone. Instead, I use a GPS for the car, so perhaps there are other features that you can't get that I am not aware of. Radio Mobile Hmm...Not sure if RM will run under Linux with WINE, but I see instructions to install it, so I presume it will work. Quark Xpress Not sure what this is, either. Visio DIA. DIA is a diagramming tool with functionality that is similar (maybe better) than Visio. FWIW, the openoffice toolset is a MUCH better solution, IMO than Microsoft's Office suite. I use presentation software ALL the time (for the classes I teach), so to me, that is a VERY important requirement. One benefit (for me) to OpenOffice is that it will export directly to PDF format. It can open MS Office documents, and even write in that format. Evolution offers the email solution that is similar in function to Outlook, in that it has a contact manager, calendar function and can sync with Windows Mobile phones. Firefox is a better browser, but there is a distribution of Internet Explorer for Linux as well, if you have sites that require IE. There are THOUSANDS of other applications available. These are just a few examples. Many games are not going to run on Linux, but there are a LOT of games available for Linux, too. I am not a gamer, so I can't speak to what is and is not available for this. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
Ok, here is a curve ball for you Butch; WinBox into a MikroTik router running v2.8. grin Only because recently you said you couldn't WinBox into a v2.8 client router we were working on together from your Linux machine. ducking Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Travis Johnson wrote: Adobe Photoshop GIMP Scansoft Paperport Don't know what this one is. If it is a scanner driver, then there is one called sane for Linux. There is possibly more functionality in your app, but I am not familiar with what it is or does. Quickbooks GnuCash works well. It is not compatible with QB, but it's functionality is similar and even looks a lot like QB. I have moved most of my invoicing to an online solution (see https://butchevansconsulting.freshbooks.com/signup/) for a free trial for Freshbooks. It is a web based application, so it works for ANY OS. iTunes (for my iPhone) MP3? I am not an iTunes user, so perhaps I am missing what you are after here, but manipulating MP3 files and interacting with a cell phone (via bluetooth, USB or IR) is easy. There are MANY places to download music (legal places like iTunes). Streets and Trips 2008 I use google maps for this, but there is another program called GpsDrive that will provide you with similar functionality as Streets and Trips. The only thing that may be missing is the ability to export your trip data to your mobile phone, if you use that sort of functionality. For use in the car, I don't use my laptop OR phone. Instead, I use a GPS for the car, so perhaps there are other features that you can't get that I am not aware of. Radio Mobile Hmm...Not sure if RM will run under Linux with WINE, but I see instructions to install it, so I presume it will work. Quark Xpress Not sure what this is, either. Visio DIA. DIA is a diagramming tool with functionality that is similar (maybe better) than Visio. FWIW, the openoffice toolset is a MUCH better solution, IMO than Microsoft's Office suite. I use presentation software ALL the time (for the classes I teach), so to me, that is a VERY important requirement. One benefit (for me) to OpenOffice is that it will export directly to PDF format. It can open MS Office documents, and even write in that format. Evolution offers the email solution that is similar in function to Outlook, in that it has a contact manager, calendar function and can sync with Windows Mobile phones. Firefox is a better browser, but there is a distribution of Internet Explorer for Linux as well, if you have sites that require IE. There are THOUSANDS of other applications available. These are just a few examples. Many games are not going to run on Linux, but there are a LOT of games available for Linux, too. I am not a gamer, so I can't speak to what is and is not available for this. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Dylan Oliver wrote: This is getting a little further astray, but what makes you think that Fedora is geekier than Ubuntu? The ladies tell me I'm pretty geeky, but I run Ubuntu and now you're stepping on my . Can we please agree that there is nothing inherently more geeky about one distro vs another - though Ubuntu happens to be used by more non-geeks than Fedora? LOL. Ok...Ubuntu can be geeky, too. ;-) Really, my intent was to show that Ubuntu offers a more user friendly type of install and experience. In reality, it is probably a better desktop distro. I use Fedora mostly because that is what my servers are built on, and I am a FreeBSD guy, so I am still in a bit of a learning curve with Linux. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Mike Hammett wrote: There are too many Linux programs to count... unfortunately, most of them are garbage and so is the support. You get what you pay for. Nobody is trying to convince you of anything. You are obviously not very familiar regarding this topic, so your input is noted, as is your experience in this area. Want info on a new MLM program? I guess you are an expert there, too, so nevermind. sheesh! -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Brad Belton wrote: Ok, here is a curve ball for you Butch; WinBox into a MikroTik router running v2.8. grin lol. Terminal with ssh? That is my preferred method anyway. I use winbox mostly because it remembers passwords anyway. ;-) Only because recently you said you couldn't WinBox into a v2.8 client router we were working on together from your Linux machine. ducking I think it is funny some of the issues that I experience with Winbox under Linux. Any version of RouterOS older than 2.9.38 has issues, though there are more issues with 2.8.x. Also, in Winbox, I cannot seem to run a new terminal because it does not work correctly at all. Also, the drag and drop feature in Winbox does not work. It just seems odd to me that MT would have these issues with Linux, considering that they are Linux programmers as part of their business. I know that there are several MT employees who use Linux desktops, too. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Butch Evans wrote: Nobody is trying to convince you of anything. CRAP. I apologize to the list (and Mike) for posting this to the list. I did not intend for this to go here. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Glad we can be friends again! There is a 'server' edition for Ubuntu: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/serveredition. I just noticed a version optimized for VMWare ( http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/jeos), which is great for me as I run XP for Quickbooks and Manifold and Adobe CS3 but keep Ubuntu running in the background as a development server. Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
I've been using Linux in one duty or another for years... 5+. It cannot be a replacement for the home or small business desktop at this time. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Mike Hammett wrote: There are too many Linux programs to count... unfortunately, most of them are garbage and so is the support. You get what you pay for. Nobody is trying to convince you of anything. You are obviously not very familiar regarding this topic, so your input is noted, as is your experience in this area. Want info on a new MLM program? I guess you are an expert there, too, so nevermind. sheesh! -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
Please add network stumbler to the list Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Adobe Photoshop Scansoft Paperport Quickbooks iTunes (for my iPhone) Streets and Trips 2008 Radio Mobile Quark Xpress Visio thanks, Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so easily. What? There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux. Do you use thousands of programs? Give me a list of the must have programs you use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that will accomplish what you are looking for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Kismet works better than I could ever get network stumbler to work. More details too... On Dec 10, 2007 1:05 PM, CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please add network stumbler to the list Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Adobe Photoshop Scansoft Paperport Quickbooks iTunes (for my iPhone) Streets and Trips 2008 Radio Mobile Quark Xpress Visio thanks, Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so easily. What? There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux. Do you use thousands of programs? Give me a list of the must have programs you use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that will accomplish what you are looking for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
Stumbler does not run under Vista either, Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:06 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question Please add network stumbler to the list Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Adobe Photoshop Scansoft Paperport Quickbooks iTunes (for my iPhone) Streets and Trips 2008 Radio Mobile Quark Xpress Visio thanks, Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so easily. What? There are THOUSANDS of programs for Linux. Do you use thousands of programs? Give me a list of the must have programs you use, I can almost certainly give you a list of programs for Linux that will accomplish what you are looking for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
I just bought a nice Systemax from Tiger Direct with XP and it includes a Vista Business upgrade license. It has plenty of room for expansion and the 2 Firewire ports work nice with the external storage HDD I use for backups for extra speed over USB. The Systemax Venture comes with a Dual Core Intel Core 2 Quad processor, a 500GB SATA II hard drive, and 2GB of DDR2 PC6400 RAM, on a D975XBX motherboard. Plus a 20x DVD±RW dual layer dvd/cd burner, a DVD-ROM/CD burner Combo Drive, flash card reader,7.1 channel audio, gigabit LAN, GeForce 8800GTS 320MB video card. $1500.00 and 3-year PL On-site warranty. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2967394CatId=6 Frank Muto President FSM Marketing Group, Inc. www.SecureEmailPlus.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Broadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:01 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question Is it still possible to buy a new computer and use XP? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Games. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office. We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but definitely slower, that's not meaningful. The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK. (Why it becomes unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments). We haven't had driver problems. We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista. Not many, but perhaps 50% more. The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in XP, in one place into several far flung places. It may make more sense but drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving the support guys nuts. Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now calling support. The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work. That just makes people mad at Microsoft. Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO (at a small cost). It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs. It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb. It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more and more popular and we accept that for our system. They have caused no problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively help each other the way early PC users used to do. There are only a tiny fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on Macintosh as the same or better. That argument doesn't fly anymore. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Hi, Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower? Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question THREAD CLOSED
Let's move this thread to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you care to continue please. I have received several requests to kill this thread. Thank you, Rick Harnish No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1179 - Release Date: 12/9/2007 11:06 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] OT......Question
Sorry for this one guys. Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the dreaded MS Vista on it. Is it possible to partition the hard drive, delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available to assist my non-OS compliant butt??? :-) If you want to reply offlist thats fine. Tnx. -B- Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic and OSXL boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one for OSXL and used the remaining space for linux. Mike Bushard, Jr Wireless Network Engineer 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question Sorry for this one guys. Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the dreaded MS Vista on it. Is it possible to partition the hard drive, delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available to assist my non-OS compliant butt??? :-) If you want to reply offlist thats fine. Tnx. -B- Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility built in. So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. Linux will find the space. Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if you really don't want vista. Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic and OSXL boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one for OSXL and used the remaining space for linux. Mike Bushard, Jr Wireless Network Engineer 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question Sorry for this one guys. Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the dreaded MS Vista on it. Is it possible to partition the hard drive, delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available to assist my non-OS compliant butt??? :-) If you want to reply offlist thats fine. Tnx. -B- Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
That's what I thought. I just need to find a Dummies verson so I can do it! :-) -B- On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic and OSXL boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one for OSXL and used the remaining space for linux. Mike Bushard, Jr Wireless Network Engineer 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question Sorry for this one guys. Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the dreaded MS Vista on it. Is it possible to partition the hard drive, delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available to assist my non-OS compliant butt??? :-) If you want to reply offlist thats fine. Tnx. -B- Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Thanks George. I just want to leave Vista on there incase something happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best Buy. they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues. Its a just in case issue. Thanks! -B- On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote: Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility built in. So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. Linux will find the space. Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if you really don't want vista. Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic and OSXL boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one for OSXL and used the remaining space for linux. Mike Bushard, Jr Wireless Network Engineer 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question Sorry for this one guys. Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the dreaded MS Vista on it. Is it possible to partition the hard drive, delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available to assist my non-OS compliant butt??? :-) If you want to reply offlist thats fine. Tnx. -B- Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
The only other issue you will have is finding all the XP drivers for the laptop. HP/Compaq no longer publish the XP drivers for laptops that come with Vista on them. You can still find them, it just takes a little searching. Travis Microserv Bob Moldashel wrote: Thanks George. I just want to leave Vista on there incase something happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best Buy. they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues. Its a just in case issue. Thanks! -B- On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote: Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility built in. So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. Linux will find the space. Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if you really don't want vista. Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic and OSXL boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one for OSXL and used the remaining space for linux. Mike Bushard, Jr Wireless Network Engineer 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question Sorry for this one guys. Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the dreaded MS Vista on it. Is it possible to partition the hard drive, delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available to assist my non-OS compliant butt??? :-) If you want to reply offlist thats fine. Tnx. -B- Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
Bob: Take a look at http://apcmag.com/5023/dual_booting_xp_with_vista And goto the section labeled: Get Started - Using DISKPART.. Don't pay any attention to the steps prior to the Get Started - Using DISKPART... It is very straight forward and simple... It works.. I have done this for multiple laptops that I put in the field. -- Regards, Ty Carter, President Strategic Network Consultants, Inc. 524 East 9th Street Washington, NC 27889 252-946-0351 .::. Office 252-402-5296 .::. Cell 252-946-8763 .::. Fax E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit us on the web at: http://www.strategicconsultants.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question Sorry for this one guys. Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the dreaded MS Vista on it. Is it possible to partition the hard drive, delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available to assist my non-OS compliant butt??? :-) If you want to reply offlist thats fine. Tnx. -B- Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
K. Tnx Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:17:12 To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question The only other issue you will have is finding all the XP drivers for the laptop. HP/Compaq no longer publish the XP drivers for laptops that come with Vista on them. You can still find them, it just takes a little searching. Travis Microserv Bob Moldashel wrote: Thanks George. I just want to leave Vista on there incase something happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best Buy. they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues. Its a just in case issue. Thanks! -B- On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote: Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility built in. So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. Linux will find the space. Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if you really don't want vista. Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic and OSXL boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one for OSXL and used the remaining space for linux. Mike Bushard, Jr Wireless Network Engineer 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question Sorry for this one guys. Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the dreaded MS Vista on it. Is it possible to partition the hard drive, delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available to assist my non-OS compliant butt??? :-) If you want to reply offlist thats fine. Tnx. -B- Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Thats because in about a year, SP1 will be released and clear up the major problems.I consider the first version of any new MS OS to be a release candidate at best. Frankly if they do not clean up the Usability of Vista, it will be the OS the drives me completely to OS X or Linux. I already use the alternatives to windows a majority of the time anyways, its just certain programs that I still need windows (hint: Alvarion BreezeConfig for instance). But apple and the major linux distros are working to eliminating that need _without_ having to piece it together myself. These alternative OS's are also producing better products, I upgraded my old ibook to 10.5 without having to do any upgrade on the hardware, and 10.5 seems to be faster than 10.4. While part of this is because of the limited hardware Apple needs to support, they still were able to make major upgrades, support 2 hardware architectures, and it is still built better. The desktop linux distros are getting closer to products that anyone can use, again there is no hardware upgrade needed. You can see these alternatives are scaring MS, just look at graphics, Vista supports OpenGL as a software compatibility in DirectX, and its performance is poor. Why? Because they want to lock game developers to their proprietary system, so that those games cannot be ported to other OS's which I personally hope backfires on them. Microsoft needs to drop the monopolistic, proprietary attitude. Right now they can't even produce a standards compliant web browser because of their business tactics. Even Microsoft isn't using Vista on everything. They are pushing to get XO to upgrade the OLPC hardware to run XP, not vista, because they know they will never get vista to run on lower performance machines. They also know they will lose entire continents to Linux if the OLPC with linux becomes popular. Frankly a lot of people do not use vista because of compatibility and usability issues, once those are cleared up, right around SP1's release, I will give it a try again as a personal system. But it will be another 6 moths to a year until major corporations are ready to deploy it, They need to do regression testing, compatibility testing, upgrades, etc. System changes should never be attempted ad-hoc, unless you want to waste a lot of money and time. DELL is not to blame for the drivers, they don't produce the hardware, they put it into systems. blame the companies that make the components and chipsets, Intel, Broadcom, ATI, Nvidia, and etc. Also make sure that when you lay that blame on them, you need to make sure that the APIs available to them from MS were complete for vista. Microsoft's blame on the hardware issues is somewhat apparent, how many features were dropped, severely changed or rewritten during the much delayed release of Vista, they released it not because it was ready, but because they needed to do something Just as much has to be blamed on the software vendors that produce crap that runs on the OS, the numerous hacks that MS has to build into the new versions of each OS to support poorly written third party applications is ridiculous. Ryan On Dec 9, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301 ) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
It is not so much the new OS but the fact that many aftermarket programs do not work with it. And forget about printer drivers. I have a plotter that is relatively new and there is no chance for a driver to work with Vista. If you use it for present day sofware you are fine. Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:57:00 To:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
My appologies to the list. The one thing i was hoping to avoid was an OS thread. We all know how that discussion loads up the list hard drive. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Will do. Tnx Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Ty Carter Lightwave Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:45:32 To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question Bob: Take a look at http://apcmag.com/5023/dual_booting_xp_with_vista And goto the section labeled: Get Started - Using DISKPART.. Don't pay any attention to the steps prior to the Get Started - Using DISKPART... It is very straight forward and simple... It works.. I have done this for multiple laptops that I put in the field. -- Regards, Ty Carter, President Strategic Network Consultants, Inc. 524 East 9th Street Washington, NC 27889 252-946-0351 .::. Office 252-402-5296 .::. Cell 252-946-8763 .::. Fax E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit us on the web at: http://www.strategicconsultants.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question Sorry for this one guys. Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the dreaded MS Vista on it. Is it possible to partition the hard drive, delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available to assist my non-OS compliant butt??? :-) If you want to reply offlist thats fine. Tnx. -B- Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
No, no, Dell is to blame. If a component manufacturer makes something and someone else puts it on their board\in their machine, they are the responsible ones. ATI makes 64 bit Vista drivers, Dell does not have them available. ATI won't install because it's a Dell machine. There are many other drivers not available through Dell that are through someone else. Dell also doesn't have their software ready for this platform. There are plenty of device manufacturers that don't have the drivers, though. I don't buy the not having time to test... Vista betas and release candidates have been available to developers for a couple years. Vista release candidates were available to just about anyone else several months before release. They had time, they just chose to slack off since they could blame it on someone else... kinda like cable companies forcing their customers to digital systems and blaming it on the government's efforts to stop analog broadcasts. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Ryan Langseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Thats because in about a year, SP1 will be released and clear up the major problems.I consider the first version of any new MS OS to be a release candidate at best. Frankly if they do not clean up the Usability of Vista, it will be the OS the drives me completely to OS X or Linux. I already use the alternatives to windows a majority of the time anyways, its just certain programs that I still need windows (hint: Alvarion BreezeConfig for instance). But apple and the major linux distros are working to eliminating that need _without_ having to piece it together myself. These alternative OS's are also producing better products, I upgraded my old ibook to 10.5 without having to do any upgrade on the hardware, and 10.5 seems to be faster than 10.4. While part of this is because of the limited hardware Apple needs to support, they still were able to make major upgrades, support 2 hardware architectures, and it is still built better. The desktop linux distros are getting closer to products that anyone can use, again there is no hardware upgrade needed. You can see these alternatives are scaring MS, just look at graphics, Vista supports OpenGL as a software compatibility in DirectX, and its performance is poor. Why? Because they want to lock game developers to their proprietary system, so that those games cannot be ported to other OS's which I personally hope backfires on them. Microsoft needs to drop the monopolistic, proprietary attitude. Right now they can't even produce a standards compliant web browser because of their business tactics. Even Microsoft isn't using Vista on everything. They are pushing to get XO to upgrade the OLPC hardware to run XP, not vista, because they know they will never get vista to run on lower performance machines. They also know they will lose entire continents to Linux if the OLPC with linux becomes popular. Frankly a lot of people do not use vista because of compatibility and usability issues, once those are cleared up, right around SP1's release, I will give it a try again as a personal system. But it will be another 6 moths to a year until major corporations are ready to deploy it, They need to do regression testing, compatibility testing, upgrades, etc. System changes should never be attempted ad-hoc, unless you want to waste a lot of money and time. DELL is not to blame for the drivers, they don't produce the hardware, they put it into systems. blame the companies that make the components and chipsets, Intel, Broadcom, ATI, Nvidia, and etc. Also make sure that when you lay that blame on them, you need to make sure that the APIs available to them from MS were complete for vista. Microsoft's blame on the hardware issues is somewhat apparent, how many features were dropped, severely changed or rewritten during the much delayed release of Vista, they released it not because it was ready, but because they needed to do something Just as much has to be blamed on the software vendors that produce crap that runs on the OS, the numerous hacks that MS has to build into the new versions of each OS to support poorly written third party applications is ridiculous. Ryan On Dec 9, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
Try driveragent.com for odd drivers. I have a Sony Vaio from Japan and couldn't find an English ethernet driver, but I found one on there. At our computer store we use it daily for any odd driver. It's not free but the subscription is invaluable to us as computer people. It's an ActiveX control that scans your devices and has a library of device codes for nearly everything. -Original Message- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 2:54 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question No, no, Dell is to blame. If a component manufacturer makes something and someone else puts it on their board\in their machine, they are the responsible ones. ATI makes 64 bit Vista drivers, Dell does not have them available. ATI won't install because it's a Dell machine. There are many other drivers not available through Dell that are through someone else. Dell also doesn't have their software ready for this platform. There are plenty of device manufacturers that don't have the drivers, though. I don't buy the not having time to test... Vista betas and release candidates have been available to developers for a couple years. Vista release candidates were available to just about anyone else several months before release. They had time, they just chose to slack off since they could blame it on someone else... kinda like cable companies forcing their customers to digital systems and blaming it on the government's efforts to stop analog broadcasts. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Ryan Langseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Thats because in about a year, SP1 will be released and clear up the major problems.I consider the first version of any new MS OS to be a release candidate at best. Frankly if they do not clean up the Usability of Vista, it will be the OS the drives me completely to OS X or Linux. I already use the alternatives to windows a majority of the time anyways, its just certain programs that I still need windows (hint: Alvarion BreezeConfig for instance). But apple and the major linux distros are working to eliminating that need _without_ having to piece it together myself. These alternative OS's are also producing better products, I upgraded my old ibook to 10.5 without having to do any upgrade [The entire original message is not included] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
In a message dated 12/9/2007 6:48:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff Depending upon how 'top' you need it to be, either buy a HP on sale or call your local High School and get one of the computer students to give you an online shopping list of parts and put it together. Walter **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
In a message dated 12/9/2007 3:16:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get started with the learning curve. Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so easily. **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Jeff, A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the headaches of a Linux box for "family" use. Travis Microserv Jeff Broadwick wrote: Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Hi, Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower? Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] OT......Question
We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office. We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but definitely slower, that's not meaningful. The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK. (Why it becomes unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments). We haven't had driver problems. We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista. Not many, but perhaps 50% more. The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in XP, in one place into several far flung places. It may make more sense but drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving the support guys nuts. Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now calling support. The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work. That just makes people mad at Microsoft. Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO (at a small cost). It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs. It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb. It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more and more popular and we accept that for our system. They have caused no problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively help each other the way early PC users used to do. There are only a tiny fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on Macintosh as the same or better. That argument doesn't fly anymore. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Hi, Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower? Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300 0001) - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
You are either a troll or willfully ignorant. There are tens of thousands of programs available for linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sudo wajig list-names | sed -e '/lib/d' | wc Password: 17883 17883 239642 There are 17883 packages (which do not match the phrase 'lib', to weed out about 7000 libraries) available for immediate installation on my system. On Dec 9, 2007 6:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to MicroSoft But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so easily. -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer. The install is easier than window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will find that in the end you are ahead of the game. Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced ubuntu/kubuntu. I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back. Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every computer we buy. :-) Steve -- Travis Johnson wrote: Jeff, A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the headaches of a Linux box for family use. Travis Microserv Jeff Broadwick wrote: Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Hi, My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods? Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see). Travis Microserv Steve wrote: Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer. The install is easier than window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will find that in the end you are ahead of the game. Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced ubuntu/kubuntu. I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back. Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every computer we buy. :-) Steve -- Travis Johnson wrote: Jeff, A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the headaches of a Linux box for "family" use. Travis Microserv Jeff Broadwick wrote: Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Mac OS. ryan On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods? Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see). Travis Microserv Steve wrote: Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer. The install is easier than window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will find that in the end you are ahead of the game. Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced ubuntu/kubuntu. I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back. Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every computer we buy. :-) Steve -- Travis Johnson wrote: Jeff, A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the headaches of a Linux box for family use. Travis Microserv Jeff Broadwick wrote: Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
The _only_ reason Vista will still be around is because Microsoft is forcing people to buy it with new computers. If they had an installer when the person first turned the computer on that would allow a selection of XP or Vista, I bet 95% of people would pick XP. Travis Microserv Jonathan Schmidt wrote: We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office. We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but definitely slower, that's not meaningful. The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK. (Why it becomes unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments). We haven't had driver problems. We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista. Not many, but perhaps 50% more. The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in XP, in one place into several far flung places. It may make more sense but drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving the support guys nuts. Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now calling support. The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work. That just makes people mad at Microsoft. Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO (at a small cost). It doesn't appear that "VISTA" was a good business/technical decision on Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs. It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb. It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more and more popular and we accept that for our system. They have caused no problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively help each other the way early PC users used to do. There are only a tiny fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on Macintosh as the same or better. That argument doesn't fly anymore. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question Hi, Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower? Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: Agreed. This happens with every OS release... It's OH SO HORRIBLE... but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears. I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself. Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault... that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dreaded MS Vista Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes from the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning it-not going backwards. Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300 0001) - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! htt
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
haven't tried those games but some might work with wine http://appdb.winehq.org/appbrowse.php?catId=0 Steve -- Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods? Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see). Travis Microserv Steve wrote: Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer. The install is easier than window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will find that in the end you are ahead of the game. Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced ubuntu/kubuntu. I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back. Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every computer we buy. :-) Steve -- Travis Johnson wrote: Jeff, A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the headaches of a Linux box for family use. Travis Microserv Jeff Broadwick wrote: Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
Re: [WISPA] OT......Question
Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP laptop that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out of a Mac laptop is $1,400. Travis Microserv D. Ryan Spott wrote: Mac OS. ryan On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods? Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see). Travis Microserv Steve wrote: Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer. The install is easier than window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will find that in the end you are ahead of the game. Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced ubuntu/kubuntu. I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back. Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every computer we buy. :-) Steve -- Travis Johnson wrote: Jeff, A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the headaches of a Linux box for family use. Travis Microserv Jeff Broadwick wrote: Hi Butch, I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family. What Linux desk-top would be best at this point? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is everyone so down on Vista? I have been using it for a long time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without problems [laptops and PC's]. I think it is more a learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards. I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get started with the learning curve. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
