Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
lol Yeah, it sucks. Really the vendors that sell those configs are the ones that we should all avoid like the plague. Then BOTH companies would go away sooner than later. Anyone remember Hyperlink? They loved to sell those 1 watt amps with 15dB omni antennas. Those guys put more operators out of business than there are in business today. It's a shame. But hey, that's what these lists are for. ASK QUESTIONS! Don't know about everyone else here but I'd rather answer the same question twice a week than see a company fail due to bad advice. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Can't say how many times I posted on different lists warning about 15 dBi omnis. It is next to impossible to make a 15 dBi omni with any usable elevation beamwidth at all - electrical downtilt or not. 12 dBi is pretty much the maximum and at that you will be lucky to see anything over a degree on the elevation pattern. Having been in the antenna business before and with a partner who made a career out of designing antennas, I can tell you that we would never use an omni greater than 10 dBi for any application. On 3/31/2010 8:39 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: lol Yeah, it sucks. Really the vendors that sell those configs are the ones that we should all avoid like the plague. Then BOTH companies would go away sooner than later. Anyone remember Hyperlink? They loved to sell those 1 watt amps with 15dB omni antennas. Those guys put more operators out of business than there are in business today. It's a shame. But hey, that's what these lists are for. ASK QUESTIONS! Don't know about everyone else here but I'd rather answer the same question twice a week than see a company fail due to bad advice. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauserk...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakelandlakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakelandlakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
If they are operating illegally, a quick way to get them shut down is to contact the owner of the tower they are on next to yours. I recommend a verbal phone call informing them of the situation including all documentation via e-mail. I would follow it with a certified letter. Most tower operators / owners do not want to be involved with lawsuits. Almost all tower contracts provide the operator a stick to beat the bad tenant with. You can simultaneously go for a civil lawsuit under tortuous interference. Under TR you are able to get Treble Damages (a good thing to note in your letters). Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Looks like their products are still available. Here's my favorite: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22131 Can you imagine running that kind of power - indoors?? Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! lol Yeah, it sucks. Really the vendors that sell those configs are the ones that we should all avoid like the plague. Then BOTH companies would go away sooner than later. Anyone remember Hyperlink? They loved to sell those 1 watt amps with 15dB omni antennas. Those guys put more operators out of business than there are in business today. It's a shame. But hey, that's what these lists are for. ASK QUESTIONS! Don't know about everyone else here but I'd rather answer the same question twice a week than see a company fail due to bad advice. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Extra limb alert. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Looks like their products are still available. Here's my favorite: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22131 Can you imagine running that kind of power - indoors?? Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! lol Yeah, it sucks. Really the vendors that sell those configs are the ones that we should all avoid like the plague. Then BOTH companies would go away sooner than later. Anyone remember Hyperlink? They loved to sell those 1 watt amps with 15dB omni antennas. Those guys put more operators out of business than there are in business today. It's a shame. But hey, that's what these lists are for. ASK QUESTIONS! Don't know about everyone else here but I'd rather answer the same question twice a week than see a company fail due to bad advice. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
In that case it WAS the vendor's fault because THEY often picked out the config for new people. If I recall correctly they were smacked around a bit by the FCC for selling known bad systems. Either way, that problem seems to have fixed it's self. marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Hyperlink is still around... L-Com. It's not really the vendor's fault. Realistically there could be applications where an amp is needed, i.e. long coax runs, smaller antennas, etc. It really is up to the operator to make sure they are in compliance. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! lol Yeah, it sucks. Really the vendors that sell those configs are the ones that we should all avoid like the plague. Then BOTH companies would go away sooner than later. Anyone remember Hyperlink? They loved to sell those 1 watt amps with 15dB omni antennas. Those guys put more operators out of business than there are in business today. It's a shame. But hey, that's what these lists are for. ASK QUESTIONS! Don't know about everyone else here but I'd rather answer the same question twice a week than see a company fail due to bad advice. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
This is exactly what I did and it worked, we are not coordinating frequencies, they are a professional tower firm and immediately called their clients and both called me. It also told me I had two new competitors in town :(, at least their professional unlike the local boys, problem appears solved now. Thanks, Forbes On 3/31/2010 8:22 AM, Marco Coelho wrote: If they are operating illegally, a quick way to get them shut down is to contact the owner of the tower they are on next to yours. I recommend a verbal phone call informing them of the situation including all documentation via e-mail. I would follow it with a certified letter. Most tower operators / owners do not want to be involved with lawsuits. Almost all tower contracts provide the operator a stick to beat the bad tenant with. You can simultaneously go for a civil lawsuit under tortuous interference. Under TR you are able to get Treble Damages (a good thing to note in your letters). Marco Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I inherited a system with several Hyperlink 15dBi antennas on the repeater sites. My first thought was yuk. After living with them for over 3 years I've been very impressed on how well they work. I tried replacing one with a Pacific Wireless OD24-12 unit with electronic downtilt, lost association with half my clients and the other half had high packet loss. I ended up putting the original omni back in. I'm all ears on explanations for these results. -RickG On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Cameron Crum cc...@dot11net.com wrote: Can't say how many times I posted on different lists warning about 15 dBi omnis. It is next to impossible to make a 15 dBi omni with any usable elevation beamwidth at all - electrical downtilt or not. 12 dBi is pretty much the maximum and at that you will be lucky to see anything over a degree on the elevation pattern. Having been in the antenna business before and with a partner who made a career out of designing antennas, I can tell you that we would never use an omni greater than 10 dBi for any application. On 3/31/2010 8:39 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: lol Yeah, it sucks. Really the vendors that sell those configs are the ones that we should all avoid like the plague. Then BOTH companies would go away sooner than later. Anyone remember Hyperlink? They loved to sell those 1 watt amps with 15dB omni antennas. Those guys put more operators out of business than there are in business today. It's a shame. But hey, that's what these lists are for. ASK QUESTIONS! Don't know about everyone else here but I'd rather answer the same question twice a week than see a company fail due to bad advice. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauserk...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakelandlakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakelandlakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Yea, I learned my lesson. I now use 7.5dB Omni's with downtilt. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Cameron Crum cc...@dot11net.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:58:08 -0600 Can't say how many times I posted on different lists warning about 15 dBi omnis. It is next to impossible to make a 15 dBi omni with any usable elevation beamwidth at all - electrical downtilt or not. 12 dBi is pretty much the maximum and at that you will be lucky to see anything over a degree on the elevation pattern. Having been in the antenna business before and with a partner who made a career out of designing antennas, I can tell you that we would never use an omni greater than 10 dBi for any application. On 3/31/2010 8:39 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: lol Yeah, it sucks. Really the vendors that sell those configs are the ones that we should all avoid like the plague. Then BOTH companies would go away sooner than later. Anyone remember Hyperlink? They loved to sell those 1 watt amps with 15dB omni antennas. Those guys put more operators out of business than there are in business today. It's a shame. But hey, that's what these lists are for. ASK QUESTIONS! Don't know about everyone else here but I'd rather answer the same question twice a week than see a company fail due to bad advice. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauserk...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakelandlakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakelandlakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I tried to order one of these to make up for coaxial loss on one of my towers. They wouldnt sell it to me! -RickG On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Looks like their products are still available. Here's my favorite: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22131 Can you imagine running that kind of power - indoors?? Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! lol Yeah, it sucks. Really the vendors that sell those configs are the ones that we should all avoid like the plague. Then BOTH companies would go away sooner than later. Anyone remember Hyperlink? They loved to sell those 1 watt amps with 15dB omni antennas. Those guys put more operators out of business than there are in business today. It's a shame. But hey, that's what these lists are for. ASK QUESTIONS! Don't know about everyone else here but I'd rather answer the same question twice a week than see a company fail due to bad advice. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I bought an amp from them once (before I knew better) and they only sold it to me because I was taking it out of the country (they took my word on it). Greg On Mar 31, 2010, at 2:24 PM, RickG wrote: I tried to order one of these to make up for coaxial loss on one of my towers. They wouldnt sell it to me! -RickG On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Looks like their products are still available. Here's my favorite: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22131 Can you imagine running that kind of power - indoors?? Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! lol Yeah, it sucks. Really the vendors that sell those configs are the ones that we should all avoid like the plague. Then BOTH companies would go away sooner than later. Anyone remember Hyperlink? They loved to sell those 1 watt amps with 15dB omni antennas. Those guys put more operators out of business than there are in business today. It's a shame. But hey, that's what these lists are for. ASK QUESTIONS! Don't know about everyone else here but I'd rather answer the same question twice a week than see a company fail due to bad advice. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
We bought out a company several years ago. They had some Hyperlink 2 watt 900MHZ amps. I can only imagine how much ³damage² those could do if they were hooked to an Omni. Sheesh. -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net http://www.metrospan.net From: Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:15:43 -0430 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I bought an amp from them once (before I knew better) and they only sold it to me because I was taking it out of the country (they took my word on it). Greg On Mar 31, 2010, at 2:24 PM, RickG wrote: I tried to order one of these to make up for coaxial loss on one of my towers. They wouldnt sell it to me! -RickG On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com wrote: Looks like their products are still available. Here's my favorite: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22131 Can you imagine running that kind of power - indoors?? Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! lol Yeah, it sucks. Really the vendors that sell those configs are the ones that we should all avoid like the plague. Then BOTH companies would go away sooner than later. Anyone remember Hyperlink? They loved to sell those 1 watt amps with 15dB omni antennas. Those guys put more operators out of business than there are in business today. It's a shame. But hey, that's what these lists are for. ASK QUESTIONS! Don't know about everyone else here but I'd rather answer the same question twice a week than see a company fail due to bad advice. marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Bob, I fully agree with your point. FCC enforcement is not the best method for promptly curing illegal interference that is harming one's operations. The process does not move fast enough for that. I know if I have not resolved such interference within the day, I've lost the subscribers. There is always a better approach, whether it be to rebuild one's own equipment/network to work around it, negotiate directly with other party, cause reciprocal harm until they play nice, or have attorney send letter. FCC enforcement only occurs at a time table acceptable to penalize those that abuse and ignore the regulations. It was mentioned recently by WISPA's attorney (Steve), that the FCC's authority is only to shut down abusers and fine abusers. There are no mechanisms or legal authority for compensating those that have been interferred with. If illegal interference occurs to the level that rebuilding one's own radio solution can not help, and the time involved in engaging the FCC is needed, I'd argue that it is likely a situation where the one being interfered with is at risk of incurring enough significant harm, that it may be wise to document the violation legally anyways. Thus, might be worth sending the attorney letter. You'd atleast then be able to prove if the violator agreed or refused to cooperate and take corrective action. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I agree with WHO. But you are talking MONTHS and not even sure if anything has been done. How many people out here can wait MONTHS for a cure to their issue? And its unknown if there even was or will be any enforcement action. If I make a complaint to enforcement regarding a licensed interference issue they are on that within 24 hours. If I tell them who and where and/or its a public safety issue they will usually respond within hours. But you're saying MONTHS with all the right info. I don't know. Still sounds like what I said. :-) -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I know of at least 10+ WISPS that buy gear from us that do not heed the warning about exceeding the EIRP limit. Only reason I know is when I do the consulting for them and see the TX power has not been limited, or is actually overpowered. They are in little po-dunk areas that have 1-5,000 residents in their town usually. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:41 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, I think people should have to take a test in order to be a WISP. Otherwise you got all these pop-up idiots that know nothing about RF and setting up 20db sectors with XR2's set at default power levels. This is well over 50watts EIRP. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I agree with WHO. But you are talking MONTHS and not even sure if anything has been done. How many people out here can wait MONTHS for a cure to their issue? And its unknown if there even was or will be any enforcement action. If I make a complaint to enforcement regarding a licensed interference issue they are on that within 24 hours. If I tell them who and where and/or its a public safety issue they will usually respond within hours. But you're saying MONTHS with all the right info. I don't know. Still sounds like what I said. :-) -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
If you have any public safety people using your system, even just for their offices, mention that public safety is being interfered with. Watch them move into HIGH gear then. We have to call them every once and a while for public safety issues, and they are tremendous to deal with. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I get what you are saying Bob. But sometimes it's more about knowing WHO to call. I just had a guy call with a similar problem. You all know him and I'd drop his name but I don't want to tip off the dirt bag operator. When he first called the FCC he ended up at the wrong place. They told him that there was nothing they could do. I had him call back and specifically ask for the enforcement folks NOT the consumer complaint folks. He had pictures, spectrum analyzer, radio screen shots etc. that showed, clearly, that the other guy was aiming antennas right at his. When the good guy moved channels the bad guy moved with him, within days. He was also able to get together with another local WISP who added his name to the complaint. This did take a couple of months to work through the system but last I'd heard the FCC HAD been working on this complaint. Perhaps it's far enough along that the good guy can tell you a bit more. 1-800-call-fcc Ask for ENFORCEMENT. You need to have your documentation in order first. It's true that we all have to accept interference. It's also true that we can't CAUSE it maliciously. They also have a hissy fit when we go over the allowable power levels. For what it's worth, nearly all of my systems are below, often well below, legal levels. They tend to work better that way anyhow. Use bigger antennas not more power. Range and reliability is about SNR. You can get that in two ways. More power is one. Better ears is another. Better ears also mean narrower beams which usually means less interference which also means greater SNR which means longer ranges which means less AP's which means less interference etc. etc. etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I don't believe that. I've turned people in and the FCC dealt with them. I know of others that have also had success. Perhaps someone went about turning them in the wrong way? You do need some good proof. Spec analyzer readings, pics etc. If you need help give me a shout and I'll help you put together the info you'll need and get you to the right people. marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, NY 11741 800-479-9195 631-286-8873 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, NY 11741 800-479-9195 631-286-8873 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, NY 11741 800-479-9195 631-286-8873 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
A regular WISP calling a field office to complain will produce zero response. The only way they will pay any attention is if there is supporting documentation with letters to the offender requesting they correct their network to be in compliance, dates/times, spectum analysis proving over EIRP/OOB. this is why I originally said it's a long and painful process - you have to suffer while you build your case. The good news is that with a good case, the FCC will act. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Lakeland Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Marlon, You have personal contacts. That's cheating. I have contacts too and could probably get action if I needed it but I am talking the regular Wisp calling the field office. Unless you have an inside number at the field office you usually only get the recorded TV interference message. Maybe I'm just totally wrong. -B- Marlon K. Schafer writes: H, I've had much better luck that than Bob. marlon - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, NY 11741 800-479-9195 631-286-8873 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
On 03/29/2010 01:13 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't believe that. I've turned people in and the FCC dealt with them. I know of others that have also had success. Perhaps someone went about turning them in the wrong way? You do need some good proof. Spec analyzer readings, pics etc. If you need help give me a shout and I'll help you put together the info you'll need and get you to the right people. I agree...have some documentation in hand and collect it as you go. As I said earlier, a call to your Congressman is usually helpful if the direct approach doesn't work. Leon marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I dont necessarilly agree with that, and I dont think the FCC would either. What I do know is they dont want to go out of their way to harrass WISPs and take action that will result in Consumers loosing their broadband, unnecessarilly. (although they cant say that out loud.) To get action from the FCC, the complainer needs to provide proof that the alledged violator is in fact in violation, and proof that it is causing harm. It cant just be a theory or allegation. I recognize there are budget cuts, shortage of time, and higher priorities, but also I dont believe there are really all that many complaints that actually are backed with real proof, and really getting harmed. The FCC has enough man power to respond to legitimate critical complaints, where there is a good reason to investigate. However, I agree engaging an Attorny and having him send a letter is probably a quicker way to get an initial response. The second both sides start to have to spend money at lawyer rates, people get real quickly, on how important it is or isn't to have the illegal radio isntalled or removed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! This is really the only way to handle this. Send them a cease and desist letter because they are interrupting your service and serve them certified mail. Then go after them with a lawyer. Unless the entity that is receiving interference is the FCC or works for them, I would say you have no chance whatsoever to get any action from the Commission. Part 15 is not allowed to interfere and must accept any interference that is does receive. A simple clarification from the FCC. Don't call us.We'll call you -B- Tom Sharples writes: There is another approach to consider - sue them for tortuous interference : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference which has nothing to do with RF interference, but rather refers to intentionally disturbing or destroying your business relationship with your customers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Only if over the EIRP of 36dB. One does not even need amps to be over the limit. 23dB -- 17dB panel = 40dB. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon D. Zetekoff Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2675 - Release Date: 02/08/10 07:35:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, NY 11741 800-479-9195 631-286-8873 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I'd suggest using the services of an expert witness - one with a deep understanding of Part-15 interference issues and who has testified (and won) in this type of case. Using the expert witness to collect on-scene RF evidence and then to work with your attorney to present that evidence to the judge can lead to getting the interfering operator to cease and desist. Feel free to hit me off list for more information. jack 818-227-4220 Jerry Richardson wrote: ok, I can see how more recently with budget cuts that would be the case. I guess the alterative of pursuing it as a civil matter is your only course but good luck getting a sympathetic judge who doesn't understand the technology. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2010, at 7:16 PM, "Lakeland" lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, NY 11741 800-479-9195 631-286-8873 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadban
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Last I heard there were 2 engineers in the NYC office to cover 350+ annual TV, radio station, maritime, radar, etc. inspections. Do the math. Including travel it just doesn't work and they are required to do the inspections. Add that to interference complaints of licensed services by other licensed operators, unauthorized broadcast pirates and tower painting and lighting complaints and there is no time or resources to chase Part 15 -vs- Part 15 complaints. Now, if it involves interference to a licensed operator who the FCC is required by law to protect then yes it will happen with the right evidence and information.. I know of several cases where there was more than enough evidence including pictures, statements, recordings, etc. and still nothing was done. It just comes down to priorities. -B- Tom DeReggi writes: I dont necessarilly agree with that, and I dont think the FCC would either. What I do know is they dont want to go out of their way to harrass WISPs and take action that will result in Consumers loosing their broadband, unnecessarilly. (although they cant say that out loud.) To get action from the FCC, the complainer needs to provide proof that the alledged violator is in fact in violation, and proof that it is causing harm. It cant just be a theory or allegation. I recognize there are budget cuts, shortage of time, and higher priorities, but also I dont believe there are really all that many complaints that actually are backed with real proof, and really getting harmed. The FCC has enough man power to respond to legitimate critical complaints, where there is a good reason to investigate. However, I agree engaging an Attorny and having him send a letter is probably a quicker way to get an initial response. The second both sides start to have to spend money at lawyer rates, people get real quickly, on how important it is or isn't to have the illegal radio isntalled or removed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! This is really the only way to handle this. Send them a cease and desist letter because they are interrupting your service and serve them certified mail. Then go after them with a lawyer. Unless the entity that is receiving interference is the FCC or works for them, I would say you have no chance whatsoever to get any action from the Commission. Part 15 is not allowed to interfere and must accept any interference that is does receive. A simple clarification from the FCC. Don't call us.We'll call you -B- Tom Sharples writes: There is another approach to consider - sue them for tortuous interference : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference which has nothing to do with RF interference, but rather refers to intentionally disturbing or destroying your business relationship with your customers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Only if over the EIRP of 36dB. One does not even need amps to be over the limit. 23dB -- 17dB panel = 40dB. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon D. Zetekoff Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
On 03/28/2010 03:50 PM, Lakeland wrote: Last I heard there were 2 engineers in the NYC office to cover 350+ annual TV, radio station, maritime, radar, etc. inspections. Do the math. Including travel it just doesn't work and they are required to do the inspections. Add that to interference complaints of licensed services by other licensed operators, unauthorized broadcast pirates and tower painting and lighting complaints and there is no time or resources to chase Part 15 -vs- Part 15 complaints. Now, if it involves interference to a licensed operator who the FCC is required by law to protect then yes it will happen with the right evidence and information.. I know of several cases where there was more than enough evidence including pictures, statements, recordings, etc. and still nothing was done. It just comes down to priorities. If the amps this other company is using is not part 15 accepted, then they do want to know about it. Non-type accepted equip gets them going as well. My dad was the ass't EIC of the NYC Field Office until he retired in '74. I've said this elsewhere, if you don't get Charly to move contact your Congressman. Many times they had to do stuff because of some Congress person interacting and contacting Washington. Leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Just a reminder part-15 rules states we have to accept all interference from any legal source. We are not allowed to interfere with other services (licensed). FCC will not do anything to anyone that is running legal equipment. If someone running legal equipment interfere with you it's more of a civil matter where the best chance is building a case against someone for deliberately trying to interfere and preventing you from doing business. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 08:30:25 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I dont necessarilly agree with that, and I dont think the FCC would either. What I do know is they dont want to go out of their way to harrass WISPs and take action that will result in Consumers loosing their broadband, unnecessarilly. (although they cant say that out loud.) To get action from the FCC, the complainer needs to provide proof that the alledged violator is in fact in violation, and proof that it is causing harm. It cant just be a theory or allegation. I recognize there are budget cuts, shortage of time, and higher priorities, but also I dont believe there are really all that many complaints that actually are backed with real proof, and really getting harmed. The FCC has enough man power to respond to legitimate critical complaints, where there is a good reason to investigate. However, I agree engaging an Attorny and having him send a letter is probably a quicker way to get an initial response. The second both sides start to have to spend money at lawyer rates, people get real quickly, on how important it is or isn't to have the illegal radio isntalled or removed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net To: Tom Sharples tsharp...@qorvus.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! This is really the only way to handle this. Send them a cease and desist letter because they are interrupting your service and serve them certified mail. Then go after them with a lawyer. Unless the entity that is receiving interference is the FCC or works for them, I would say you have no chance whatsoever to get any action from the Commission. Part 15 is not allowed to interfere and must accept any interference that is does receive. A simple clarification from the FCC. Don't call us.We'll call you -B- Tom Sharples writes: There is another approach to consider - sue them for tortuous interference : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference which has nothing to do with RF interference, but rather refers to intentionally disturbing or destroying your business relationship with your customers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Only if over the EIRP of 36dB. One does not even need amps to be over the limit. 23dB -- 17dB panel = 40dB. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon D. Zetekoff Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2675 - Release Date: 02/08/10
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Good one! I did that once. The hired gun who really knew his stuff also let the offending WISP know that they work closely with the FCC (true statement) and would pursue the issue with the collected evidence if they didnt stop. They corrected the situation. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: I'd suggest using the services of an expert witness - one with a deep understanding of Part-15 interference issues and who has testified (and won) in this type of case. Using the expert witness to collect on-scene RF evidence and then to work with your attorney to present that evidence to the judge can lead to getting the interfering operator to cease and desist. Feel free to hit me off list for more information. jack 818-227-4220 Jerry Richardson wrote: ok, I can see how more recently with budget cuts that would be the case. I guess the alterative of pursuing it as a civil matter is your only course but good luck getting a sympathetic judge who doesn't understand the technology. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net ; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, NY 11741 800-479-9195 631-286-8873 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
[WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Josh, I love it when they are running a full fledged business but made sure they only paid for the bottom speed and saying they were residential so they could avoid the business rate. Then they call every day if the tower misses more than five pings in an hour and always complain about the speed saying, you're going to put me out of business. When you offer to upgrade their service to business rate and speed it's a quick, I'm not paying some artificial price to punish me for doing a few business things at home, right. What ever happened to 'the cost of running a business?'. Gamers are even more fun; they live four hops and 20 miles out of town and call if their ping times go below 20ms, hey I'm in a battle with some guys in Seattle and I need to be as fast as them. My answer, 'move to Seattle they have FIOS there, this is rural wireless by!' My favorite call of all time? A tower went down and a guy called yelling, I can't get my porn! :-) Forbes ps: Oh I just found the downside of the cheap price of Ubiquiti, my competitor can now afford more AP's and promptly rented the tower right next to mine and pointed a high gain 90 degree antenna right at my tower. Love the ethics in this business, if you can't get em with good service, destroy their signal with interference. This is the same competitor who used to run 24 db 2.4GHZ grids every 10 degrees all with amps just to cause havoc, how do we get any sleep or keep from crossing the line and stoop to his low level? On 3/27/2010 9:05 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Don't we all know that feeling... I remember climbing 300' when it was below freezing, 30mph winds and the snow was more wet then anything. Before I climbed one of the customers said You're killing my business. Mind you he has had no issues outside of this instance, 6 months since we bought the network. Half way up I just kept reciting that laughing at how ridiculous the situation was - I'm way above the ground freezing my ass off to fix just a few customers and they were that grateful. Gotta love it :) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Better then being unemployed, I guess? :) On 3/27/10, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: Josh, I love it when they are running a full fledged business but made sure they only paid for the bottom speed and saying they were residential so they could avoid the business rate. Then they call every day if the tower misses more than five pings in an hour and always complain about the speed saying, you're going to put me out of business. When you offer to upgrade their service to business rate and speed it's a quick, I'm not paying some artificial price to punish me for doing a few business things at home, right. What ever happened to 'the cost of running a business?'. Gamers are even more fun; they live four hops and 20 miles out of town and call if their ping times go below 20ms, hey I'm in a battle with some guys in Seattle and I need to be as fast as them. My answer, 'move to Seattle they have FIOS there, this is rural wireless by!' My favorite call of all time? A tower went down and a guy called yelling, I can't get my porn! :-) Forbes ps: Oh I just found the downside of the cheap price of Ubiquiti, my competitor can now afford more AP's and promptly rented the tower right next to mine and pointed a high gain 90 degree antenna right at my tower. Love the ethics in this business, if you can't get em with good service, destroy their signal with interference. This is the same competitor who used to run 24 db 2.4GHZ grids every 10 degrees all with amps just to cause havoc, how do we get any sleep or keep from crossing the line and stoop to his low level? On 3/27/2010 9:05 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Don't we all know that feeling... I remember climbing 300' when it was below freezing, 30mph winds and the snow was more wet then anything. Before I climbed one of the customers said You're killing my business. Mind you he has had no issues outside of this instance, 6 months since we bought the network. Half way up I just kept reciting that laughing at how ridiculous the situation was - I'm way above the ground freezing my ass off to fix just a few customers and they were that grateful. Gotta love it :) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I'm thinking of writing more specific SLA for this very reason. basic service is best effort and has a 1 day response window. this is the way to discourage businesses from being cheap. business customers get same day response with minimum speed and uptime standards Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Better then being unemployed, I guess? :) On 3/27/10, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: Josh, I love it when they are running a full fledged business but made sure they only paid for the bottom speed and saying they were residential so they could avoid the business rate. Then they call every day if the tower misses more than five pings in an hour and always complain about the speed saying, you're going to put me out of business. When you offer to upgrade their service to business rate and speed it's a quick, I'm not paying some artificial price to punish me for doing a few business things at home, right. What ever happened to 'the cost of running a business?'. Gamers are even more fun; they live four hops and 20 miles out of town and call if their ping times go below 20ms, hey I'm in a battle with some guys in Seattle and I need to be as fast as them. My answer, 'move to Seattle they have FIOS there, this is rural wireless by!' My favorite call of all time? A tower went down and a guy called yelling, I can't get my porn! :-) Forbes ps: Oh I just found the downside of the cheap price of Ubiquiti, my competitor can now afford more AP's and promptly rented the tower right next to mine and pointed a high gain 90 degree antenna right at my tower. Love the ethics in this business, if you can't get em with good service, destroy their signal with interference. This is the same competitor who used to run 24 db 2.4GHZ grids every 10 degrees all with amps just to cause havoc, how do we get any sleep or keep from crossing the line and stoop to his low level? On 3/27/2010 9:05 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Don't we all know that feeling... I remember climbing 300' when it was below freezing, 30mph winds and the snow was more wet then anything. Before I climbed one of the customers said You're killing my business. Mind you he has had no issues outside of this instance, 6 months since we bought the network. Half way up I just kept reciting that laughing at how ridiculous the situation was - I'm way above the ground freezing my ass off to fix just a few customers and they were that grateful. Gotta love it :) --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I'm thinking of writing more specific SLA for this very reason. basic service is best effort and has a 1 day response window. this is the way to discourage businesses from being cheap. business customers get same day response with minimum speed and uptime standards Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Better then being unemployed, I guess? :) On 3/27/10, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: Josh, I love it when they are running a full fledged business but made sure they only paid for the bottom speed and saying they were residential so they could avoid the business rate. Then they call every day if the tower misses more than five pings in an hour and always complain about the speed saying, you're going to put me out of business. When you offer to upgrade their service to business rate and speed it's a quick, I'm not paying some artificial price to punish me for doing a few business things at home, right. What ever happened to 'the cost of running a business?'. Gamers are even more fun; they live four hops and 20 miles out of town and call if their ping times go below 20ms, hey I'm in a battle with some guys in Seattle and I need to be as fast as them. My answer, 'move to Seattle they have FIOS there, this is rural wireless by!' My favorite call of all time? A tower went down and a guy called yelling, I can't get my porn! :-) Forbes ps: Oh I just found the downside of the cheap price of Ubiquiti, my competitor can now afford more AP's and promptly rented the tower right next to mine and pointed a high gain 90 degree antenna right at my tower. Love the ethics in this business, if you can't get em with good service, destroy their signal with interference. This is the same competitor who used to run 24 db 2.4GHZ grids every 10 degrees all with amps just to cause havoc, how do we get any sleep or keep from crossing the line and stoop to his low level? On 3/27/2010 9:05 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Don't we all know that feeling... I remember climbing 300' when it was below freezing, 30mph winds and the snow was more wet then anything. Before I climbed one of the customers said You're killing my business. Mind you he has had no issues outside of this instance, 6 months since we bought the network. Half way up I just kept reciting that laughing at how ridiculous the situation was - I'm way above the ground freezing my ass off to fix just a few customers and they were that grateful. Gotta love it :) --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Define intentional? If they're practicing within EIRP is there anything you can go after? On 3/27/10, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I'm thinking of writing more specific SLA for this very reason. basic service is best effort and has a 1 day response window. this is the way to discourage businesses from being cheap. business customers get same day response with minimum speed and uptime standards Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Better then being unemployed, I guess? :) On 3/27/10, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: Josh, I love it when they are running a full fledged business but made sure they only paid for the bottom speed and saying they were residential so they could avoid the business rate. Then they call every day if the tower misses more than five pings in an hour and always complain about the speed saying, you're going to put me out of business. When you offer to upgrade their service to business rate and speed it's a quick, I'm not paying some artificial price to punish me for doing a few business things at home, right. What ever happened to 'the cost of running a business?'. Gamers are even more fun; they live four hops and 20 miles out of town and call if their ping times go below 20ms, hey I'm in a battle with some guys in Seattle and I need to be as fast as them. My answer, 'move to Seattle they have FIOS there, this is rural wireless by!' My favorite call of all time? A tower went down and a guy called yelling, I can't get my porn! :-) Forbes ps: Oh I just found the downside of the cheap price of Ubiquiti, my competitor can now afford more AP's and promptly rented the tower right next to mine and pointed a high gain 90 degree antenna right at my tower. Love the ethics in this business, if you can't get em with good service, destroy their signal with interference. This is the same competitor who used to run 24 db 2.4GHZ grids every 10 degrees all with amps just to cause havoc, how do we get any sleep or keep from crossing the line and stoop to his low level? On 3/27/2010 9:05 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Don't we all know that feeling... I remember climbing 300' when it was below freezing, 30mph winds and the snow was more wet then anything. Before I climbed one of the customers said You're killing my business. Mind you he has had no issues outside of this instance, 6 months since we bought the network. Half way up I just kept reciting that laughing at how ridiculous the situation was - I'm way above the ground freezing my ass off to fix just a few customers and they were that grateful. Gotta love it :) --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
It takes a long history of showing that you have been trying to co-ordinate with the other guy and that you have moved frequencies to avoid interfernce only to have them move onto the same channel. If you can prove they are intentionally trying to interfere and have not attempted to co-ordinate you have a case. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Define intentional? If they're practicing within EIRP is there anything you can go after? On 3/27/10, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! I'm thinking of writing more specific SLA for this very reason. basic service is best effort and has a 1 day response window. this is the way to discourage businesses from being cheap. business customers get same day response with minimum speed and uptime standards Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Better then being unemployed, I guess? :) On 3/27/10, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: Josh, I love it when they are running a full fledged business but made sure they only paid for the bottom speed and saying they were residential so they could avoid the business rate. Then they call every day if the tower misses more than five pings in an hour and always complain about the speed saying, you're going to put me out of business. When you offer to upgrade their service to business rate and speed it's a quick, I'm not paying some artificial price to punish me for doing a few business things at home, right. What ever happened to 'the cost of running a business?'. Gamers are even more fun; they live four hops and 20 miles out of town and call if their ping times go below 20ms, hey I'm in a battle with some guys in Seattle and I need to be as fast as them. My answer, 'move to Seattle they have FIOS there, this is rural wireless by!' My favorite call of all time? A tower went down and a guy called yelling, I can't get my porn! :-) Forbes ps: Oh I just found the downside of the cheap price of Ubiquiti, my competitor can now afford more AP's and promptly rented the tower right next to mine and pointed a high gain 90 degree antenna right at my tower. Love the ethics in this business, if you can't get em with good service, destroy their signal with interference. This is the same competitor who used to run 24 db 2.4GHZ grids every 10 degrees all with amps just to cause havoc, how do we get any sleep or keep from crossing the line and stoop to his low level? On 3/27/2010 9:05 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Don't we all know that feeling... I remember climbing 300' when it was below freezing, 30mph winds and the snow was more wet then anything. Before I climbed one of the customers said You're killing my business. Mind you he has had no issues outside of this instance, 6 months since we bought the network. Half way up I just kept reciting that laughing at how ridiculous the situation was - I'm way above the ground freezing my ass off to fix just a few customers and they were that grateful. Gotta love it :) --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Only if over the EIRP of 36dB. One does not even need amps to be over the limit. 23dB -- 17dB panel = 40dB. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon D. Zetekoff Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
There is another approach to consider - sue them for tortuous interference : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference which has nothing to do with RF interference, but rather refers to intentionally disturbing or destroying your business relationship with your customers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Only if over the EIRP of 36dB. One does not even need amps to be over the limit. 23dB -- 17dB panel = 40dB. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon D. Zetekoff Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2675 - Release Date: 02/08/10 07:35:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
This is really the only way to handle this. Send them a cease and desist letter because they are interrupting your service and serve them certified mail. Then go after them with a lawyer. Unless the entity that is receiving interference is the FCC or works for them, I would say you have no chance whatsoever to get any action from the Commission. Part 15 is not allowed to interfere and must accept any interference that is does receive. A simple clarification from the FCC. Don't call us.We'll call you -B- Tom Sharples writes: There is another approach to consider - sue them for tortuous interference : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference which has nothing to do with RF interference, but rather refers to intentionally disturbing or destroying your business relationship with your customers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Only if over the EIRP of 36dB. One does not even need amps to be over the limit. 23dB -- 17dB panel = 40dB. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon D. Zetekoff Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2675 - Release Date: 02/08/10 07:35:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, NY 11741 800-479-9195 631-286-8873 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
At least he's honest. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:47 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Josh, I love it when they are running a full fledged business but made sure they only paid for the bottom speed and saying they were residential so they could avoid the business rate. Then they call every day if the tower misses more than five pings in an hour and always complain about the speed saying, you're going to put me out of business. When you offer to upgrade their service to business rate and speed it's a quick, I'm not paying some artificial price to punish me for doing a few business things at home, right. What ever happened to 'the cost of running a business?'. Gamers are even more fun; they live four hops and 20 miles out of town and call if their ping times go below 20ms, hey I'm in a battle with some guys in Seattle and I need to be as fast as them. My answer, 'move to Seattle they have FIOS there, this is rural wireless by!' My favorite call of all time? A tower went down and a guy called yelling, I can't get my porn! :-) Forbes ps: Oh I just found the downside of the cheap price of Ubiquiti, my competitor can now afford more AP's and promptly rented the tower right next to mine and pointed a high gain 90 degree antenna right at my tower. Love the ethics in this business, if you can't get em with good service, destroy their signal with interference. This is the same competitor who used to run 24 db 2.4GHZ grids every 10 degrees all with amps just to cause havoc, how do we get any sleep or keep from crossing the line and stoop to his low level? On 3/27/2010 9:05 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Don't we all know that feeling... I remember climbing 300' when it was below freezing, 30mph winds and the snow was more wet then anything. Before I climbed one of the customers said You're killing my business. Mind you he has had no issues outside of this instance, 6 months since we bought the network. Half way up I just kept reciting that laughing at how ridiculous the situation was - I'm way above the ground freezing my ass off to fix just a few customers and they were that grateful. Gotta love it :) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, NY 11741 800-479-9195 631-286-8873 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
I love the FCC. They all my friends on InYourFaceBook.Com. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?!
ok, I can see how more recently with budget cuts that would be the case. I guess the alterative of pursuing it as a civil matter is your only course but good luck getting a sympathetic judge who doesn't understand the technology. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Lakeland lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: Sorry I side with Travis. I have quite a few experiences with Enforcement Bureau out of NY, Philly and DC and I know with the tremendous reduction of their budget and workforce they are having enough issues just trying to do FM/AM/TV inspections that they are required by law to do. There is no manpower for chasing down unlicensed operations unless they are causing interference to a licensed operation like weather radar or some other priority service. Forget pursuing an interference complaint between two Part 15 issues especially if any travel is involved. Thats the reality of the matter. -B- Jerry Richardson writes: Gotta keep bringing it up. eventually they will respond. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ideally a host of documentation including letters to the offending ISP, previous reports to the FCC, etc will build the case. Gotta prove that they are operating over 36dB and that they are affecting other legitimate users of the band. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:38 PM To: wa4...@arrl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Oh this business, tell me again why we love it?! Negative. I know of an ISP using 5 watt amps on 2.4ghz omni antennas. They have been reported several times to the FCC, and nothing happens. Travis Microserv Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: On 03/27/2010 03:58 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: Regarding the competetor, if you can prove that your competetor is intentionally interfering with you, the FCC will actually get involved but it will take a long and painful paper-trail to build a strong enough case. if they are using amps, then the FCC would get involved. leon --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, NY 11741 800-479-9195 631-286-8873 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
