[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
my apologies - the 'context' i referred to is fully out of the hands of the designer - it is the browsing environment, determined via a mixture of user-agent information, feature detection and media queries... On 16 September 2012 16:54, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Mathew Robertson mathew.blair.robert...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:01:42 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest Part of the img vs picture discussion, has been to define what features are actually required of this element. Primarily this has come down to: a) responsive handling of bandwidth vs image-quality (aka bandwidth vs file-size) b) pixel density of display devices c) art direction [ Did I miss any? ] Breaking them down: a) bandwidth is completely out of control of the website designer... (eg: 3G bandwidth varies x10 with time) so there is next to no reason for markup (HTML or CSS) to be related to bandwidth. If the designer chose to use JPEG2000, SVG, HDF or some other tileable/scalable format, then changes the scope somewhat, as the browser could implement range requests to the webserver to indicate which block of data would suit its currently available bandwidth. b) Pixel density depends completely on the target device... again outside of the designers control (unless you want to design for every version of every device in existence). And again the best a designer can do is offer multiple images. In which case, srcset seems like a nice way to go, as it leverage's an existing element thus allowing backwards compatibility. c) The art-direction aspect can be solved using variations of clip(...) combined with range-requests. An extra mention... the media: max-width variations are really not all that useful (unless you are targeting an exact screen size + density)... my eyes work well enough so that I can read small text, so would happily like to use tablet-width layouts on a small screen. The idea of context would seem appropriate... just need to remember that some of that context is not in the hands of the designer. Just my $0.02... cheers, Mathew Robertson On 14 September 2012 17:03, Dominic Hey dominic@gmail.com wrote: To paraphrase your own words.. if an img src=... is descriptive of the target image then srcset would be descriptive of the *set* of target images, no styling information there. Where I would be more inclined to agree with you would be the media attribute, however if you abstract the essence of a media query it is not, in itself, concerned with styling. It is a conditional test. Perhaps we need a fourth element - context - to join the separate channels of content, behaviour and appearance? On 14 September 2012 16:43, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Mathew Robertson mathew.blair.robert...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:53:34 +1000 Subject: responsive images In this week's links for light reading, there is a reference to responsive images, eg: http://www.netmagazine.com/features/road-responsive-images I'd be interested to hear this lists' opinion on the proposed syntax. To me this screams of putting styling information, into the document. For comparison, we now use media queries to change font sizes and element locations, based on viewport size and/or direction. I would have expected responsive images to be implemented in a similar manner, not with new html tags. In other words, an img src=... is descriptive of the target image, and we add alt-attributes to describe it as such. Simply showing a higher quality image of the same thing, shouldn't change the document structure. Thoughts? Mathew Robertson ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Part of the img vs picture discussion, has been to define what features are actually required of this element. Primarily this has come down to: a) responsive handling of bandwidth vs image-quality (aka bandwidth vs file-size) b) pixel density of display devices c) art direction [ Did I miss any? ] Breaking them down: a) bandwidth is completely out of control of the website designer... (eg: 3G bandwidth varies x10 with time) so there is next to no reason for markup (HTML or CSS) to be related to bandwidth. If the designer chose to use JPEG2000, SVG, HDF or some other tileable/scalable format, then changes the scope somewhat, as the browser could implement range requests to the webserver to indicate which block of data would suit its currently available bandwidth. b) Pixel density depends completely on the target device... again outside of the designers control (unless you want to design for every version of every device in existence). And again the best a designer can do is offer multiple images. In which case, srcset seems like a nice way to go, as it leverage's an existing element thus allowing backwards compatibility. c) The art-direction aspect can be solved using variations of clip(...) combined with range-requests. An extra mention... the media: max-width variations are really not all that useful (unless you are targeting an exact screen size + density)... my eyes work well enough so that I can read small text, so would happily like to use tablet-width layouts on a small screen. The idea of context would seem appropriate... just need to remember that some of that context is not in the hands of the designer. Just my $0.02... cheers, Mathew Robertson On 14 September 2012 17:03, Dominic Hey dominic@gmail.com wrote: To paraphrase your own words.. if an img src=... is descriptive of the target image then srcset would be descriptive of the *set* of target images, no styling information there. Where I would be more inclined to agree with you would be the media attribute, however if you abstract the essence of a media query it is not, in itself, concerned with styling. It is a conditional test. Perhaps we need a fourth element - context - to join the separate channels of content, behaviour and appearance? On 14 September 2012 16:43, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Mathew Robertson mathew.blair.robert...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:53:34 +1000 Subject: responsive images In this week's links for light reading, there is a reference to responsive images, eg: http://www.netmagazine.com/features/road-responsive-images I'd be interested to hear this lists' opinion on the proposed syntax. To me this screams of putting styling information, into the document. For comparison, we now use media queries to change font sizes and element locations, based on viewport size and/or direction. I would have expected responsive images to be implemented in a similar manner, not with new html tags. In other words, an img src=... is descriptive of the target image, and we add alt-attributes to describe it as such. Simply showing a higher quality image of the same thing, shouldn't change the document structure. Thoughts? Mathew Robertson ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
To paraphrase your own words.. if an img src=... is descriptive of the target image then srcset would be descriptive of the *set* of target images, no styling information there. Where I would be more inclined to agree with you would be the media attribute, however if you abstract the essence of a media query it is not, in itself, concerned with styling. It is a conditional test. Perhaps we need a fourth element - context - to join the separate channels of content, behaviour and appearance? On 14 September 2012 16:43, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Mathew Robertson mathew.blair.robert...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:53:34 +1000 Subject: responsive images In this week's links for light reading, there is a reference to responsive images, eg: http://www.netmagazine.com/features/road-responsive-images I'd be interested to hear this lists' opinion on the proposed syntax. To me this screams of putting styling information, into the document. For comparison, we now use media queries to change font sizes and element locations, based on viewport size and/or direction. I would have expected responsive images to be implemented in a similar manner, not with new html tags. In other words, an img src=... is descriptive of the target image, and we add alt-attributes to describe it as such. Simply showing a higher quality image of the same thing, shouldn't change the document structure. Thoughts? Mathew Robertson ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Please unsubscribe me. Kind regards, Joanne Glasspoole Certified Social Media Manager INDIGO CREATIVE SOLUTIONS 2142 200th Street Centuria, Wisconsin 54824 *For urgent or time sensitive support requests, please call or text me at (715) 553-1514* * * Toll-free Number: (877) 259-6989 Toll-free Fax: (877) 227-9854 Toll-free Conference Room: (800) 617-7801 Access Code: 8344401 * * *Find us on Facebook: *Joanne Glasspoolehttps://www.facebook.com/glasspoole | Indigo Creative Solutionshttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Indigo-Creative-Solutions/260485463977454 | Jim Morrison Project https://www.facebook.com/jimmorrisonproject | Grief Loss Recovery https://www.facebook.com/grieflossrecovery ~~~ P.S.* **Now is the time to migrate your site to Joomla 2.5. *Joomla 1.5 reached its end of life on April 30, 2012 and will no longer be supported by Joomla at the end of September 2012. If you would like to schedule a free consultation for an estimate to migrate your site to Joomla 2.5, call or text me at (715) 553-1514. --Joanne On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:32 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Kiama Web Design m...@kiamawebdesign.com.au Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:30:14 -0500 Subject: Out of office I will be out of the office from Friday 7th until Tuesday 11th September. Cheers, Mark New Kiama Web Design ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] More on spam traps
Client side validation fails when scammers screen scrape your site and then
directly send to your receiving script. You really need to consider using a
server side validation.
Ken
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-Original Message-
From: coder co...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk
Sender: li...@webstandardsgroup.org
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:37:51
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Reply-to: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] More on spam traps
Hi All,
I have recently attempted to 'trap' spammers who use autofilling tactics on the
site at www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk. This is written in html5 and uses a
mixture of simple tests to validate the form. However, yesterday I recvd a
mail thus:
a.. name
a.. igmgrtasel
a.. email
a..
a.. hidden
a.. -9
a.. comments
a.. CaWePF a href=http://ipdszgwutyvp.com/;ipdszgwutyvp/a,
[url=http://fkpbtvpaxitv.com/]fkpbtvpaxitv[/url],
[link=http://rtcdalwdjrkb.com/]rtcdalwdjrkb[/link], http://xsejahukjzdr.com/
a.. send
a.. send message .
The script I used to validate the form is this:
script type=text/javascript
function validateForm()
{
var x=document.forms[contact][email].value;
var atpos=x.indexOf(@);
var dotpos=x.lastIndexOf(.);
if (atpos1 || dotposatpos+2 || dotpos+2=x.length)
{
alert(This is Not a valid e-mail address);
return false;
}
//
var y=document.forms[contact][hidden].value;
if (y==null || y==)
{
return true;}
else
{
alert(I think you are a machine)
return false;
}
}
!--// --
function check(node)
{
var re = new RegExp('[\[\\]]', 'g');
document.getElementById('send').disabled = re.test(node.value);
}
/script
and it works locally and online. However the mail I quote from above is
completely unaffected. Does this mean I give up trying, or what?
Any thing?
Thanks,
Bob
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
Re: [WSG] More on spam traps
Hi Bob,
A few points:
- The form submission was likely posted without JavaScript
- There is no point confronting a robot with the reality of it’s existence
Look into writing a filter on your email inbox or server that can
eliminate such messages without your intervention.
Don’t give up :)
Ollie
--
@ollicle
On 22 August 2012 21:07, coder co...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote:
I have recently attempted to 'trap' spammers who use autofilling tactics on
the site at www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk. This is written in html5 and uses
a mixture of simple tests to validate the form. However, yesterday I recvd
a mail thus:
name
igmgrtasel
email
hidden
-9
comments
CaWePF a href=http://ipdszgwutyvp.com/;ipdszgwutyvp/a,
[url=http://fkpbtvpaxitv.com/]fkpbtvpaxitv[/url],
[link=http://rtcdalwdjrkb.com/]rtcdalwdjrkb[/link], http://xsejahukjzdr.com/
send
send message .
The script I used to validate the form is this:
script type=text/javascript
function validateForm()
{
var x=document.forms[contact][email].value;
var atpos=x.indexOf(@);
var dotpos=x.lastIndexOf(.);
if (atpos1 || dotposatpos+2 || dotpos+2=x.length)
{
alert(This is Not a valid e-mail address);
return false;
}
//
var y=document.forms[contact][hidden].value;
if (y==null || y==)
{
return true;}
else
{
alert(I think you are a machine)
return false;
}
}
!--// --
function check(node)
{
var re = new RegExp('[\[\\]]', 'g');
document.getElementById('send').disabled = re.test(node.value);
}
/script
and it works locally and online. However the mail I quote from above is
completely unaffected. Does this mean I give up trying, or what?
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
RE: [WSG] More on spam traps
I think its important to give the spammer no indication that you are onto
them. If you give them any kind of feedback, they can use that to work a
way through your maze.The filters i use (which are similar to yours on
the client side, but I also use some tests on the server side, but the
submitter sees the same result either way. Even if the submission is just
discarded to the bitbucket in the sky. They have no way to know their
submission has been discarded.
Cheers
Mike Kear
AFP Webworks
Windsor, NSW, Australia
http://afpwebworks.com
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of coder
Sent: Wednesday, 22 August 2012 9:38 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] More on spam traps
Hi All,
I have recently attempted to 'trap' spammers who use autofilling tactics on
the site at www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk. This is written in html5 and uses
a mixture of simple tests to validate the form. However, yesterday I recvd
a mail thus:
_
. name
* igmgrtasel
. email
*
. hidden
* -9
. comments
* CaWePF a href=http://ipdszgwutyvp.com/;ipdszgwutyvp/a,
[url=http://fkpbtvpaxitv.com/]fkpbtvpaxitv[/url],
[link=http://rtcdalwdjrkb.com/]rtcdalwdjrkb[/link], http://xsejahukjzdr.com/
. send
* send message .
_
The script I used to validate the form is this:
script type=text/javascript
function validateForm()
{
var x=document.forms[contact][email].value;
var atpos=x.indexOf(@);
var dotpos=x.lastIndexOf(.);
if (atpos1 || dotposatpos+2 || dotpos+2=x.length)
{
alert(This is Not a valid e-mail address);
return false;
}
//
var y=document.forms[contact][hidden].value;
if (y==null || y==)
{
return true;}
else
{
alert(I think you are a machine)
return false;
}
}
!--// --
function check(node)
{
var re = new RegExp('[\[\\]]', 'g');
document.getElementById('send').disabled = re.test(node.value);
}
/script
and it works locally and online. However the mail I quote from above is
completely unaffected. Does this mean I give up trying, or what?
Any thing?
Thanks,
Bob
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5212 - Release Date: 08/20/12
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
Re: [WSG] More on spam traps
Mike Kear I think its important to give the spammer no indication that you are onto them. If you give them any kind of feedback, they can use that to work a way through your maze.The filters i use (which are similar to yours on the client side, but I also use some tests on the server side, but the submitter sees the same result either way. Even if the submission is just discarded to the bitbucket in the sky. They have no way to know their submission has been discarded. That's awfully public-spirited of you, as it makes the spammer slower to move on to attacking another website, but it can get expensive. If some spammers think they are being successful, they will absolutely hammer your server and that could burn your data transfer allowance, or even overload your server if the tests aren't written carefully. Let them submit a few forms and then 302 redirect them to something like http://spam-ip.com/honeypot.php perhaps. Thanks, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] how to force a cache bypass?
(See below) On 8/2/12 9:50 PM, James Ducker wrote: Second that. If you can version the filenames that's definitely the most sure-fire way to make sure users don't cache old copies. James On 3 August 2012 14:39, Emmanuel Negri nna...@gmail.com mailto:nna...@gmail.com wrote: Sometimes a random query string does not work. Changing the filename itself works 100% of the time. Eg. style-scm-revision-number.css Manu On 03/08/2012, at 1:25 PM, James Ducker james.duc...@gmail.com mailto:james.duc...@gmail.com wrote: Append some junk querystring to the end of the URL, like example.com/index.html?20120803132400 http://example.com/index.html?20120803132400. Every time it changes, stuff will be refreshed. Wouldn't really recommend doing it for regular pages because it makes the URLs look messy, but if you're trying to refresh scripts or images, go nuts. James On 21 July 2012 03:22, Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.com mailto:robe...@boogdesign.com wrote: On 20/07/2012 17:47, coder wrote: How can I make a web page appear as the latest version in all browsers, i.e., perform a cache bypass? And I don't mean for me - I mean for all visitors to the page? Is it possible? ?? Once it's cached in the browser there's not much you can do about it, the browser will store the cache settings at the time when it cached the page and if those settings say don't check again for a month then, generally, it won't. If you want the page to never be cached then you need to set the expiry header. With Apache servers this is quite straightforward and can usually be done in the directory's .htaccess file: ExpiresByType text/html access plus 0 seconds This is example was take from HTML5 BoilerPlate: https://github.com/h5bp/html5-__boilerplate/blob/__83f4f281866be1cf7f391738c53c44__8a5ac658e9/.htaccess#L233 https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/blob/83f4f281866be1cf7f391738c53c448a5ac658e9/.htaccess#L233 Rob You may be interested in this automated way of doing it: http://derek.io/blog/2009/auto-versioning-javascript-and-css-files/ -- Cordially, David *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
joining the party a little late here.. unless i have misunderstood things here this is a perfect situation to employ XSLT ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XSLT). you can assign whatever attributes you require to the XML and then use XSLT to have the browser render the file as XHTML. On 2 August 2012 10:38, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Mathew Robertson mathew.blair.robert...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 09:57:54 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML5 polyglot markup and WAI-ARIA, is there a valid way? Hi Isabel, It sounds like you might be confusing/mixing your requirements... from the limited information you have provided, this sounds like perfect candidate to generate two separate files ie: HTML already has accessibility built in, and you get the XML file contain exactly what you require. regards, Mathew Robertson On 1 August 2012 09:29, Isabel Santos unboun...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Rob, thank you, and sorry for the delayed answer. The need for xml comes from the site being a web application for an academic work. The idea is to generate xml both to the site and for exchange purposes. I could generate both xml and html but that isn't very elegant, and would not optimise the resources. In fact, accessibility, validity, design and usability are my own concerns, they aren't part of the work, won't be evaluated, and are taking more time then they should. Anyway, as long as it is possible to do, the more difficult a work, the more one learns. I gess I've lost a good part of the WAI-ARIA development history, it's kind of hard to understand the excessive and aparently arbitrary strictness of xhtml in regards to ARIA. regards, isabel On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.com wrote: What XML content do you need to include? If you just stick to regular HTML5 then all the ARIA stuff is valid (with some sanity restrictions) and you won't have to work around the strict parsing: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/**web-apps/current-work/** multipage/elements.html#wai-**aria http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/elements.html#wai-aria XML elements will be parsed into the HTML5 document tree, albeit slightly differently to how an XML document would be parsed, but maybe close enough for your purposes depending on what XML you'll be including. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** * From: Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.com Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 02:01:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML5 polyglot markup and WAI-ARIA, is there a valid way? On 01/08/12 00:29, Isabel Santos wrote: I could generate both xml and html but that isn't very elegant, and would not optimise the resources. Unless you serve the XHTML files with a MIME type of application/xml or application/xhtml+xml, which will break things in IE9, the browser will treat all the content as HTML anyway. This is precisely because of XHTML's arbitrary strictness. http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/HTML_vs._XHTML#Differences_Between_HTML_and_XHTML Rob ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] how to force a cache bypass?
Append some junk querystring to the end of the URL, like example.com/index.html?20120803132400. Every time it changes, stuff will be refreshed. Wouldn't really recommend doing it for regular pages because it makes the URLs look messy, but if you're trying to refresh scripts or images, go nuts. James On 21 July 2012 03:22, Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.com wrote: On 20/07/2012 17:47, coder wrote: How can I make a web page appear as the latest version in all browsers, i.e., perform a cache bypass? And I don't mean for me - I mean for all visitors to the page? Is it possible? ?? Once it's cached in the browser there's not much you can do about it, the browser will store the cache settings at the time when it cached the page and if those settings say don't check again for a month then, generally, it won't. If you want the page to never be cached then you need to set the expiry header. With Apache servers this is quite straightforward and can usually be done in the directory's .htaccess file: ExpiresByType text/html access plus 0 seconds This is example was take from HTML5 BoilerPlate: https://github.com/h5bp/html5-**boilerplate/blob/** 83f4f281866be1cf7f391738c53c44**8a5ac658e9/.htaccess#L233https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/blob/83f4f281866be1cf7f391738c53c448a5ac658e9/.htaccess#L233 Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/**mail/guidelines.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/**join/unsubscribe.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberhelp@webstandardsgroup.**orgmemberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- *James Ducker* james.duc...@gmail.com +61 404 838 470 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] how to force a cache bypass?
Sometimes a random query string does not work. Changing the filename itself works 100% of the time. Eg. style-scm-revision-number.css Manu On 03/08/2012, at 1:25 PM, James Ducker james.duc...@gmail.com wrote: Append some junk querystring to the end of the URL, like example.com/index.html?20120803132400. Every time it changes, stuff will be refreshed. Wouldn't really recommend doing it for regular pages because it makes the URLs look messy, but if you're trying to refresh scripts or images, go nuts. James On 21 July 2012 03:22, Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.com wrote: On 20/07/2012 17:47, coder wrote: How can I make a web page appear as the latest version in all browsers, i.e., perform a cache bypass? And I don't mean for me - I mean for all visitors to the page? Is it possible? ?? Once it's cached in the browser there's not much you can do about it, the browser will store the cache settings at the time when it cached the page and if those settings say don't check again for a month then, generally, it won't. If you want the page to never be cached then you need to set the expiry header. With Apache servers this is quite straightforward and can usually be done in the directory's .htaccess file: ExpiresByType text/html access plus 0 seconds This is example was take from HTML5 BoilerPlate: https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/blob/83f4f281866be1cf7f391738c53c448a5ac658e9/.htaccess#L233 Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- James Ducker james.duc...@gmail.com +61 404 838 470 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] how to force a cache bypass?
Second that. If you can version the filenames that's definitely the most sure-fire way to make sure users don't cache old copies. James On 3 August 2012 14:39, Emmanuel Negri nna...@gmail.com wrote: Sometimes a random query string does not work. Changing the filename itself works 100% of the time. Eg. style-scm-revision-number.css Manu On 03/08/2012, at 1:25 PM, James Ducker james.duc...@gmail.com wrote: Append some junk querystring to the end of the URL, like example.com/index.html?20120803132400. Every time it changes, stuff will be refreshed. Wouldn't really recommend doing it for regular pages because it makes the URLs look messy, but if you're trying to refresh scripts or images, go nuts. James On 21 July 2012 03:22, Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.com wrote: On 20/07/2012 17:47, coder wrote: How can I make a web page appear as the latest version in all browsers, i.e., perform a cache bypass? And I don't mean for me - I mean for all visitors to the page? Is it possible? ?? Once it's cached in the browser there's not much you can do about it, the browser will store the cache settings at the time when it cached the page and if those settings say don't check again for a month then, generally, it won't. If you want the page to never be cached then you need to set the expiry header. With Apache servers this is quite straightforward and can usually be done in the directory's .htaccess file: ExpiresByType text/html access plus 0 seconds This is example was take from HTML5 BoilerPlate: https://github.com/h5bp/html5-**boilerplate/blob/** 83f4f281866be1cf7f391738c53c44**8a5ac658e9/.htaccess#L233https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/blob/83f4f281866be1cf7f391738c53c448a5ac658e9/.htaccess#L233 Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/**mail/guidelines.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/**join/unsubscribe.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberhelp@webstandardsgroup.**orgmemberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- *James Ducker* james.duc...@gmail.com +61 404 838 470 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- *James Ducker* james.duc...@gmail.com +61 404 838 470 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML5 polyglot markup and WAI-ARIA, is there a valid way?
Hi Rob, thank you, and sorry for the delayed answer. The need for xml comes from the site being a web application for an academic work. The idea is to generate xml both to the site and for exchange purposes. I could generate both xml and html but that isn't very elegant, and would not optimise the resources. In fact, accessibility, validity, design and usability are my own concerns, they aren't part of the work, won't be evaluated, and are taking more time then they should. Anyway, as long as it is possible to do, the more difficult a work, the more one learns. I gess I've lost a good part of the WAI-ARIA development history, it's kind of hard to understand the excessive and aparently arbitrary strictness of xhtml in regards to ARIA. regards, isabel On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.comwrote: What XML content do you need to include? If you just stick to regular HTML5 then all the ARIA stuff is valid (with some sanity restrictions) and you won't have to work around the strict parsing: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/**web-apps/current-work/** multipage/elements.html#wai-**ariahttp://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/elements.html#wai-aria XML elements will be parsed into the HTML5 document tree, albeit slightly differently to how an XML document would be parsed, but maybe close enough for your purposes depending on what XML you'll be including. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML5 polyglot markup and WAI-ARIA, is there a valid way?
Hi Isabel, It sounds like you might be confusing/mixing your requirements... from the limited information you have provided, this sounds like perfect candidate to generate two separate files ie: HTML already has accessibility built in, and you get the XML file contain exactly what you require. regards, Mathew Robertson On 1 August 2012 09:29, Isabel Santos unboun...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Rob, thank you, and sorry for the delayed answer. The need for xml comes from the site being a web application for an academic work. The idea is to generate xml both to the site and for exchange purposes. I could generate both xml and html but that isn't very elegant, and would not optimise the resources. In fact, accessibility, validity, design and usability are my own concerns, they aren't part of the work, won't be evaluated, and are taking more time then they should. Anyway, as long as it is possible to do, the more difficult a work, the more one learns. I gess I've lost a good part of the WAI-ARIA development history, it's kind of hard to understand the excessive and aparently arbitrary strictness of xhtml in regards to ARIA. regards, isabel On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.comwrote: What XML content do you need to include? If you just stick to regular HTML5 then all the ARIA stuff is valid (with some sanity restrictions) and you won't have to work around the strict parsing: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/**web-apps/current-work/** multipage/elements.html#wai-**ariahttp://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/elements.html#wai-aria XML elements will be parsed into the HTML5 document tree, albeit slightly differently to how an XML document would be parsed, but maybe close enough for your purposes depending on what XML you'll be including. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML5 polyglot markup and WAI-ARIA, is there a valid way?
On 01/08/12 00:29, Isabel Santos wrote: I could generate both xml and html but that isn't very elegant, and would not optimise the resources. Unless you serve the XHTML files with a MIME type of application/xml or application/xhtml+xml, which will break things in IE9, the browser will treat all the content as HTML anyway. This is precisely because of XHTML's arbitrary strictness. http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/HTML_vs._XHTML#Differences_Between_HTML_and_XHTML Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML5 polyglot markup and WAI-ARIA, is there a valid way?
On 26/07/2012 23:41, Isabel Santos wrote: I decided to use polyglot markup, allthough it involved serving it as text-html for old trident browsers, to be able to include xml content on the site (wich I'm still learning). What XML content do you need to include? If you just stick to regular HTML5 then all the ARIA stuff is valid (with some sanity restrictions) and you won't have to work around the strict parsing: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/elements.html#wai-aria XML elements will be parsed into the HTML5 document tree, albeit slightly differently to how an XML document would be parsed, but maybe close enough for your purposes depending on what XML you'll be including. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML5 polyglot markup and WAI-ARIA, is there a valid way?
Hi Kevin, thank you for your feedback, I do recall times when this list was quite more active :) I found out I can use WAI-ARIA with html5 polyglot, without any aditional schema or doctype, I was tired the other day, and not thinking straight. The reason it wasn't validating, is because polyglot markup is considerably stricter, relying on older specifications, so it does not allow most new wai-aria roles and states from the latest realese candidate specification. I'm still testing against validation, what structures can I use, and what elements can take them (I imagine the rc specs are way ahead the validator, one cannot really follow their examples without testing) but its better then nothing. Anyway, I was hoping wai-aria could fill in the gap if javascript was unavalilable, but state change reliy heavily on javascript, so no miracles yet. It still is nice to have some control over the NVDAs announcements. It promisses to be a steep learning curve, and a longer headset time hearing strange html announcements, no doubt a challenge. thank you so much isabel On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 1:18 AM, Kevin L. Erickson kevinlerick...@gmail.com wrote: I am also looking into some similar areas. Looking for replies??? Kevin Erickson 804-873-0388 On Jul 26, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Isabel Santos unboun...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've been researching for a way to use aria roles and states, to enhance accessibility on a web application, but it seems to be turning my brain into a soup of glia cells and floating neurons flashing like crazy fireflies! I decided to use polyglot markup, allthough it involved serving it as text-html for old trident browsers, to be able to include xml content on the site (wich I'm still learning). Since I'm using dropdown menus, that do not open on tab focus without javascript, I decided to try on wai-aria to improve the overall accessibility of the site, complementing the semantics, with or without javascript. And all was well, I was loving the idea and the new possibilities WAI-ARIA brings to the game, untill I tested it in http://validator.nu/. According to the Polyglot Markup: HTML-Compatible XHTML Documents ( http://www.w3.org/TR/html-polyglot/) I shouldn't use any docktype on the head of the document besides the !DOCTYPE HTML declaration, and am only allowed to use the default namespaces html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; math xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML; svg xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; wich by the way, I can and should omit, because they are included in the html5 by default. Yet XHTML is, according to http://www.alistapart.com/articles/waiaria/ the extendible markup language, so it makes sense to extended it. Also, xml is supposed to allow for publication and standardization of doctypes and schemas, to avoid the need to be always reinventing the weel, and to allow easier document sharing. Since WAI-ARIA is gaining so mutch ground in terms of implementation (I'm gessing probably more driven by the mobile market then by the screen reader user needs) their should be already a doctype or a schema learking around. I'm not sure the one on ALAs exemple is what I need, but then again, it seems to have been designed to xhtml 1.1, not to polyglot XHTML5. I can´t avoid stranging that I'm finding so few documents on the web mentioning both polyglot markup and WAI-ARIA, most of them refering to older xhtml versions, stating the incompatibility, whille telling us to break the standards in favor of the accessibility (no doubt accessibility is more important, but why should one have to choose?). I'm probably missing something here, this doesn't make much sense, I'm really, really confused, too many documents, from several different groups, and I'm far from an expert. Can any of you offer some guidance on the matter? already gratefull for your time, regards isabel santos *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML5 polyglot markup and WAI-ARIA, is there a valid way?
I am also looking into some similar areas. Looking for replies??? Kevin Erickson 804-873-0388 On Jul 26, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Isabel Santos unboun...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've been researching for a way to use aria roles and states, to enhance accessibility on a web application, but it seems to be turning my brain into a soup of glia cells and floating neurons flashing like crazy fireflies! I decided to use polyglot markup, allthough it involved serving it as text-html for old trident browsers, to be able to include xml content on the site (wich I'm still learning). Since I'm using dropdown menus, that do not open on tab focus without javascript, I decided to try on wai-aria to improve the overall accessibility of the site, complementing the semantics, with or without javascript. And all was well, I was loving the idea and the new possibilities WAI-ARIA brings to the game, untill I tested it in http://validator.nu/. According to the Polyglot Markup: HTML-Compatible XHTML Documents (http://www.w3.org/TR/html-polyglot/) I shouldn't use any docktype on the head of the document besides the !DOCTYPE HTML declaration, and am only allowed to use the default namespaces html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; math xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML; svg xmlns=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; wich by the way, I can and should omit, because they are included in the html5 by default. Yet XHTML is, according to http://www.alistapart.com/articles/waiaria/ the extendible markup language, so it makes sense to extended it. Also, xml is supposed to allow for publication and standardization of doctypes and schemas, to avoid the need to be always reinventing the weel, and to allow easier document sharing. Since WAI-ARIA is gaining so mutch ground in terms of implementation (I'm gessing probably more driven by the mobile market then by the screen reader user needs) their should be already a doctype or a schema learking around. I'm not sure the one on ALAs exemple is what I need, but then again, it seems to have been designed to xhtml 1.1, not to polyglot XHTML5. I can´t avoid stranging that I'm finding so few documents on the web mentioning both polyglot markup and WAI-ARIA, most of them refering to older xhtml versions, stating the incompatibility, whille telling us to break the standards in favor of the accessibility (no doubt accessibility is more important, but why should one have to choose?). I'm probably missing something here, this doesn't make much sense, I'm really, really confused, too many documents, from several different groups, and I'm far from an expert. Can any of you offer some guidance on the matter? already gratefull for your time, regards isabel santos *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest::Abwesendheitsnotiz Michael Schröder
Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich befinde mich vom 16. Juli bis einschließlich 8. August 2012 im Urlaub und kann Ihre Nachricht deshalb zur Zeit nicht bearbeiten. Nach meiner Rückkehr werde ich mich umgehend um Ihr Anliegen kümmern. In dringenden Fällen wenden Sie sich bitte an meinen Geschäftspartner: Mail Boxes ETC. Herr Peter Baumann Ochsenzoller Straße 129 22848 Norderstedt Tel: (0 40) 51 31 51 61 Fax: (0 40) 51 31 51 62 E-mail: p...@mbe-norderstedt.de Öffnungszeiten: Montag - Freitag: 09.00 - 19.00 Uhr Mit freundlichem Gruß Michael Schröder *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
I am currently on maternity leave. Please contact Anna Moretti in my absence. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Issues with IE
Hi again, Just to let you know that the issue is fixed after I did some research ;) Regards, Naim Latifi On 20 jul 2012, at 11:12, Naim Latifi naimlatif...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello friends, I really hope you are having fun in this warm summer. Through this email I want to ask for a help if you can figure one issue with Toggle and IE. I will describe as follow. I have a checkout button and I implemented a toggle with Jquery. Everything works find in other browser expect IE is moving down one div once I hover in the go to checkout button. Here is the link where you can see the issue http://again.naimweb.com. I really appreciate any tips to solve the issue ! Thanks a lot ! Kind regards, ** Naim Latifi Master student in Social Media and Web technologies Linne University Idet 1:201 SE-35252 Vaxjo Sweden Emails: naimlatif...@hotmail.com naim.lat...@gmail.com nlae...@student.vxu.se n...@betterlife.se Web development portfolio: http://www.naimweb.com Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/naimlatifi Phone: +46765662003 *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] how to force a cache bypass?
Are! you again Bob, we will have people complaining about off topic again lol You can do this Bob Place the following meta tag within the head of your HTML document. When used to refresh the current page, the syntax looks like this: It should work in all browsers but dont hold me to that and do a check mate. This tells the server to call up a new version of the page each time its requested. (or refreshed automatically in 600 seconds if they stay on the page) meta http-equiv=refresh content=600 Dan - Original Message - From: coder To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 5:47 PM Subject: [WSG] how to force a cache bypass? OK, this isn't about standards, but it's more interesting than knowing that folk are not in the office . . . How can I make a web page appear as the latest version in all browsers, i.e., perform a cache bypass? And I don't mean for me - I mean for all visitors to the page? Is it possible? ?? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] how to force a cache bypass?
On 20/07/2012 17:47, coder wrote: How can I make a web page appear as the latest version in all browsers, i.e., perform a cache bypass? And I don't mean for me - I mean for all visitors to the page? Is it possible? ?? Once it's cached in the browser there's not much you can do about it, the browser will store the cache settings at the time when it cached the page and if those settings say don't check again for a month then, generally, it won't. If you want the page to never be cached then you need to set the expiry header. With Apache servers this is quite straightforward and can usually be done in the directory's .htaccess file: ExpiresByType text/html access plus 0 seconds This is example was take from HTML5 BoilerPlate: https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/blob/83f4f281866be1cf7f391738c53c448a5ac658e9/.htaccess#L233 Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of the Office Re: WSG Digest
I am currently out of the office until July 23, If you need immediate assistance please contact Darla Ware at extension 7-5777 Best Regards, Janet Jaffke -- • Janet Jaffke Director Content Strategy and UI Illinois Institute of Technology 3300 S. Federal Chicago, IL 60616 312.567.3155 • *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest::Abwesendheitsnotiz Michael Schröder
Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich befinde mich vom 16. Juli bis einschließlich 8. August 2012 im Urlaub und kann Ihre Nachricht deshalb zur Zeit nicht bearbeiten. Nach meiner Rückkehr werde ich mich umgehend um Ihr Anliegen kümmern. In dringenden Fällen wenden Sie sich bitte an meinen Geschäftspartner: Mail Boxes ETC. Herr Peter Baumann Ochsenzoller Straße 129 22848 Norderstedt Tel: (0 40) 51 31 51 61 Fax: (0 40) 51 31 51 62 E-mail: p...@mbe-norderstedt.de Öffnungszeiten: Montag - Freitag: 09.00 - 19.00 Uhr Mit freundlichem Gruß Michael Schröder *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Bobby is away Re: WSG Digest
Hi there. Thanks for getting in touch. I am on holiday. I'll speak to you when I get back. Bobby -- http://about.me/slobodanka.bobby.graham *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest::Abwesendheitsnotiz Michael Schröder
Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich befinde mich vom 16. Juli bis einschließlich 8. August 2012 im Urlaub und kann Ihre Nachricht deshalb zur Zeit nicht bearbeiten. Nach meiner Rückkehr werde ich mich umgehend um Ihr Anliegen kümmern. In dringenden Fällen wenden Sie sich bitte an meinen Geschäftspartner: Mail Boxes ETC. Herr Peter Baumann Ochsenzoller Straße 129 22848 Norderstedt Tel: (0 40) 51 31 51 61 Fax: (0 40) 51 31 51 62 E-mail: p...@mbe-norderstedt.de Öffnungszeiten: Montag - Freitag: 09.00 - 19.00 Uhr Mit freundlichem Gruß Michael Schröder *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Complex navigation - semantics tab order
On 7/18/2012 3:23 PM, Ben Zeller wrote: Hi all, On a current project we are debating the best way to construct our main navigation in an accessible keyboard friendly format. The navigation consists of three levels - primary, secondary, tertiary. Navigation will be arranged in a horizontal tabbed format where only the first level will be visible on the home page. Upon visiting a primary content page, the secondary navigation will be visible below the primary nav, with the tertiary navigation available via dropdowns. Our initial thought was to use a structure that works semantically, by nesting all three levels in the same menu. (eg. http://www.stgeorge.com.au/ ) *Pro*: Semantic markup, all levels have relationship. *Con*: User must tab through all secondary/tertiary links (we have many!) before navigating to the remaining primary links: If you are going to have page specific menus you are probably better off not using drop down menus, as that might get a bit complex and those are meant for groups of information such as about us menus where you might have a company profile etc. You are probably better off having the page specific menus in a separate column. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest::Abwesendheitsnotiz Michael Schröder
Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich befinde mich vom 16. Juli bis einschließlich 8. August 2012 im Urlaub und kann Ihre Nachricht deshalb zur Zeit nicht bearbeiten. Nach meiner Rückkehr werde ich mich umgehend um Ihr Anliegen kümmern. In dringenden Fällen wenden Sie sich bitte an meinen Geschäftspartner: Mail Boxes ETC. Herr Peter Baumann Ochsenzoller Straße 129 22848 Norderstedt Tel: (0 40) 51 31 51 61 Fax: (0 40) 51 31 51 62 E-mail: p...@mbe-norderstedt.de Öffnungszeiten: Montag - Freitag: 09.00 - 19.00 Uhr Mit freundlichem Gruß Michael Schröder *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest::Abwesendheitsnotiz Michael Schröder
Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich befinde mich vom 16. Juli bis einschließlich 8. August 2012 im Urlaub und kann Ihre Nachricht deshalb zur Zeit nicht bearbeiten. Nach meiner Rückkehr werde ich mich umgehend um Ihr Anliegen kümmern. In dringenden Fällen wenden Sie sich bitte an meinen Geschäftspartner: Mail Boxes ETC. Herr Peter Baumann Ochsenzoller Straße 129 22848 Norderstedt Tel: (0 40) 51 31 51 61 Fax: (0 40) 51 31 51 62 E-mail: p...@mbe-norderstedt.de Öffnungszeiten: Montag - Freitag: 09.00 - 19.00 Uhr Mit freundlichem Gruß Michael Schröder *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest::Abwesendheitsnotiz Michael Schröder
Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich befinde mich vom 16. Juli bis einschließlich 8. August 2012 im Urlaub und kann Ihre Nachricht deshalb zur Zeit nicht bearbeiten. Nach meiner Rückkehr werde ich mich umgehend um Ihr Anliegen kümmern. In dringenden Fällen wenden Sie sich bitte an meinen Geschäftspartner: Mail Boxes ETC. Herr Peter Baumann Ochsenzoller Straße 129 22848 Norderstedt Tel: (0 40) 51 31 51 61 Fax: (0 40) 51 31 51 62 E-mail: p...@mbe-norderstedt.de Öffnungszeiten: Montag - Freitag: 09.00 - 19.00 Uhr Mit freundlichem Gruß Michael Schröder *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
I am currently on maternity leave. Please contact Anna Moretti in my absence. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Bobby is away Re: WSG Digest
Hi there. Thanks for getting in touch. I am on holiday. I'll speak to you when I get back. Bobby -- http://about.me/slobodanka.bobby.graham *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
I'm going to be out of the office until Tuesday 17th July. For all urgent matters, please email: Jeremy (j...@geemultimedia.com.au) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest::Abwesendheitsnotiz Michael Schröder
Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich befinde mich vom 16. Juli bis einschließlich 8. August 2012 im Urlaub und kann Ihre Nachricht deshalb zur Zeit nicht bearbeiten. Nach meiner Rückkehr werde ich mich umgehend um Ihr Anliegen kümmern. In dringenden Fällen wenden Sie sich bitte an meinen Geschäftspartner: Mail Boxes ETC. Herr Peter Baumann Ochsenzoller Straße 129 22848 Norderstedt Tel: (0 40) 51 31 51 61 Fax: (0 40) 51 31 51 62 E-mail: p...@mbe-norderstedt.de Öffnungszeiten: Montag - Freitag: 09.00 - 19.00 Uhr Mit freundlichem Gruß Michael Schröder *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest::Abwesendheitsnotiz Michael Schröder
Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich befinde mich vom 16. Juli bis einschließlich 8. August 2012 im Urlaub und kann Ihre Nachricht deshalb zur Zeit nicht bearbeiten. Nach meiner Rückkehr werde ich mich umgehend um Ihr Anliegen kümmern. In dringenden Fällen wenden Sie sich bitte an meinen Geschäftspartner: Mail Boxes ETC. Herr Peter Baumann Ochsenzoller Straße 129 22848 Norderstedt Tel: (0 40) 51 31 51 61 Fax: (0 40) 51 31 51 62 E-mail: p...@mbe-norderstedt.de Öffnungszeiten: Montag - Freitag: 09.00 - 19.00 Uhr Mit freundlichem Gruß Michael Schröder *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest::Abwesendheitsnotiz Michael Schröder
Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich befinde mich vom 16. Juli bis einschließlich 8. August 2012 im Urlaub und kann Ihre Nachricht deshalb zur Zeit nicht bearbeiten. Nach meiner Rückkehr werde ich mich umgehend um Ihr Anliegen kümmern. In dringenden Fällen wenden Sie sich bitte an meinen Geschäftspartner: Mail Boxes ETC. Herr Peter Baumann Ochsenzoller Straße 129 22848 Norderstedt Tel: (0 40) 51 31 51 61 Fax: (0 40) 51 31 51 62 E-mail: p...@mbe-norderstedt.de Öffnungszeiten: Montag - Freitag: 09.00 - 19.00 Uhr Mit freundlichem Gruß Michael Schröder *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
I am currently on maternity leave. Please contact Anna Moretti in my absence. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
I'm going to be out of the office until Tuesday 17th July. For all urgent matters, please email: Jeremy (j...@geemultimedia.com.au) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Bobby is away Re: WSG Digest
Hi there. Thanks for getting in touch. I am on holiday. I'll speak to you when I get back. Bobby -- http://about.me/slobodanka.bobby.graham *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Video not showing using iframe in Firefox
Tested: Page loads 100% with no errors, and video renders perfect in FF
13.0.1 and in Opera 12.50,
Kind regards,
Frank M. Palinkas
Senior Technical Writer
Google Motorola Mobility Inc. Sunnyvale, CA
Mobile: +1 650 248 5315
Web standards and accessibility tutorials:
http://dev.opera.com/author/947856
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 8:45 PM, nand wadhw...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I am having a problem with video not showing using iframe in Firefox. The
table cell also has an image background. Am getting different results in
browsers.
Chrome 20.0: works fine
IE 9.0: video shows but dotted line around video when clicked to play/pause
Firefox 13.0.1: embedded video does not show
Have not tested on Safari and Opera.
Sample HTML5 page is here: http://healthphone.org/frametest.htm
style type=text/css
!--
td.hpvideo {
width : 500px;
height : 365px;
border-width : 0;
padding-top : 0px;
padding-bottom : 0px;
padding-right : 0px;
padding-left : 0px;
text-align : center;
background-image:url('../images/mphone.png');
background-repeat:no-repeat;
background-position:center;
}
iframe {
border : none;
}
--
/style
td class=hpvideoiframe src=
http://dotsub.com/media/ac29a1ea-8fb8-4bb1-9087-cc0bb56f842c/embed/;
width=420 height=315/iframe/td
What is wrong here? Thank you.
nand
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
I am currently on maternity leave. Please contact Anna Moretti in my absence. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Bobby is away Re: WSG Digest
Hi there. Thanks for getting in touch. I am on holiday. I'll speak to you when I get back. Bobby -- http://about.me/slobodanka.bobby.graham *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
I'm going to be out of the office until Tuesday 17th July. For all urgent matters, please email: Jeremy (j...@geemultimedia.com.au) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of the Office Re: WSG Digest
I am currently out of the office until July 9, If you need immediate assistance please contact Darla Ware at extension 7-5777 Best Regards, Janet Jaffke -- • Janet Jaffke Director Content Strategy and UI Illinois Institute of Technology 3300 S. Federal Chicago, IL 60616 312.567.3155 • *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
On 02/07/2012 04:35, Teddy Knoy wrote: These e-mails aren't intended for me, but I keep on receiving them. Ted Knoy Dear Ted, welcome to the wonderful world of email mailing lists. You must have signed yourself up at some point? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** To unsubscribe, follow the link in the footer that comes with each email to this list. Cheers, P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ __ twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
I would go with David Dorwood’s suggestion, this seems the most logical. I would try and avoid the sup tags, as these are for superscript, which is really presentational and should be handled by CSS if this is the style that is required. On 2 July 2012 11:41, Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk wrote: On 02/07/2012 04:35, Teddy Knoy wrote: These e-mails aren't intended for me, but I keep on receiving them. Ted Knoy Dear Ted, welcome to the wonderful world of email mailing lists. You must have signed yourself up at some point? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/**mail/guidelines.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/**join/unsubscribe.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberhelp@webstandardsgroup.**orgmemberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** To unsubscribe, follow the link in the footer that comes with each email to this list. Cheers, P -- Patrick H. Lauke __**__**__ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/**redux/http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ __**__**__ twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke __**__**__ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/**mail/guidelines.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/**join/unsubscribe.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberhelp@webstandardsgroup.**orgmemberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Warm regards, Kevin Rapley / User Experience Designer 0772 345 7862 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
In what way is sup more presentational than p? Bob - Original Message - From: Kevin Rapley To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: Teddy Knoy Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference? I would go with David Dorwood’s suggestion, this seems the most logical. I would try and avoid the sup tags, as these are for superscript, which is really presentational and should be handled by CSS if this is the style that is required. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
The sup tag is definitely not presentational. It's good for the browser to know what is superscripted. Think about math and powers. The browser will interpret these two things totally differently: 104 10sup4/sup (correct) 10span4/span (browser will think it's 104 instead of 104) Dan From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Rapley Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 7:28 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: Teddy Knoy Subject: Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference? I would go with David Dorwood's suggestion, this seems the most logical. I would try and avoid the sup tags, as these are for superscript, which is really presentational and should be handled by CSS if this is the style that is required. On 2 July 2012 11:41, Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk wrote: On 02/07/2012 04:35, Teddy Knoy wrote: These e-mails aren't intended for me, but I keep on receiving them. Ted Knoy Dear Ted, welcome to the wonderful world of email mailing lists. You must have signed yourself up at some point? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** To unsubscribe, follow the link in the footer that comes with each email to this list. Cheers, P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ __ twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Warm regards, Kevin Rapley / User Experience Designer 0772 345 7862 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** This E-mail message, including all attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail, and destroy all copies of the original message. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
On 02/07/2012 13:39, Dan Freeman wrote: The sup tag is definitely not presentational. It’s good for the browser to know what is superscripted. Think about math and powers. The browser will interpret these two things totally differently: 10^4 10sup4/sup (correct) 10span4/span (browser will think it’s 104 instead of 10^4 ) Arguably the semantics of mathematics are best conveyed with something like MathML, not HTML. sup really just means it's superscript - make it look tinier, and up a bit. Compare the semantics of 10sup4/sup vs 1supst/sup vs Msuplle/sup clearly, not related at all, apart from the fact that they visually look the same in print. The meaning (it's a mathematical exponent vs an ordinal indicator vs an abbreviation for Mademoiselle) changes depending on context, so the semantics are certainly far from cut and dry. IMHO of course, P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ __ twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
On 30/06/2012 07:10, tee wrote: In scholarly paper and report, we often use number (e.g.. 1, 2. 3, displays in sup) in between paragraphs when referencing others' work. What is the name of the tag used in such manner in HTML or ebook format? The microformats community lists a rel=footnote under 'POSH usage' on their rel values reference: http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values#POSH_usage Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
I am currently out of the office and will respond to your email on my return *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 input type=date / and you
On 02/07/2012 01:55, James Ducker wrote:
element.valueAsDate
This property is designed to solve your locale woes, and it is also an
easy way to feature-detect a browser's native support for the date input
type. I haven't gone through all current browsers yet, so if you do use
this method, make sure to check that none of your browsers support the
property without implementing a date picker.
.valueAsDate, as you might have guessed, returns the input's value as a
Date object. Here's a super-simple feature detect:
if ( !myElement.valueAsDate ) {
// Implement my JavaScript datepicker
}
You can also simply test if the type of your input is reported as
date. Older browsers that don't implement the new HTML5 types simply
fall back to changing them - in the DOM itself - to type=text
if (!myElement.type === text) {
// fallback
}
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
__
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
__
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 input type=date / and you
The only issue I've found so far is that Safari's implementation of the
date type sucks. It gives you little up/down chevrons which add or subtract
one day at a time. So my working code also treats Safari as
datepicker-not-implemented.
For me, as I make use of the valueAsDate property when it's available, it
made more sense to check its existence directly.
Also, Chrome's date picker is pretty annoying when you're trying to enter
DOBs. As far as I can see there's no quick way to jump forward/backward by
decades at a time.
On 2 July 2012 11:11, Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk wrote:
On 02/07/2012 01:55, James Ducker wrote:
element.valueAsDate
This property is designed to solve your locale woes, and it is also an
easy way to feature-detect a browser's native support for the date input
type. I haven't gone through all current browsers yet, so if you do use
this method, make sure to check that none of your browsers support the
property without implementing a date picker.
.valueAsDate, as you might have guessed, returns the input's value as a
Date object. Here's a super-simple feature detect:
if ( !myElement.valueAsDate ) {
// Implement my JavaScript datepicker
}
You can also simply test if the type of your input is reported as
date. Older browsers that don't implement the new HTML5 types simply fall
back to changing them - in the DOM itself - to type=text
if (!myElement.type === text) {
// fallback
}
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__**__**__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com |
http://flickr.com/photos/**redux/http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
__**__**__
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
__**__**__
***
List Guidelines:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/**mail/guidelines.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/**join/unsubscribe.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberhelp@webstandardsgroup.**orgmemberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
--
*James Ducker*
james.duc...@gmail.com
+61 404 838 470
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
Thanks David. I think ePub3 and HTML5 support is still not here. When converting the HTML5 doctype files to ePub, Sigil (an ePub editor) forces ePub2 version and stripped all HTML5 tags. Converting to mobil format for Amazon Kindle is even worse, I feel as if dealing with the IE6 7. Tee On Jun 30, 2012, at 3:16 AM, David Dorward wrote: On 30 Jun 2012, at 11:04, tee wrote: I thought maybe I can use hyperlink for monolithic instead of adding 3 (which will be directed to Appendix), but this often is not desirable because in other sections of paragraphs where citations are used, there aren't alway clear sentences to hyperlink. A hyperlink (to an aside) is the closest thing HTML has AFAIK. This is for an ebook project, it's different from the webpage, and the readers are more accustom to the footnotes, but footnote doesn't work for ebook format, because devices' sizes vary, and portrait vs landscape view affects text flow too so strictly speaking there isn't pagination. The example syntax given in the EPUB specification[1] is: html … xmlns:epub=http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops; … p … a epub:type=noteref href=#n11/a … /p … aside epub:type=footnote id=n1 … /aside … /html [1] http://idpf.org/epub -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
These e-mails aren't intended for me, but I keep on receiving them. Ted Knoy On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:52 AM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks David. I think ePub3 and HTML5 support is still not here. When converting the HTML5 doctype files to ePub, Sigil (an ePub editor) forces ePub2 version and stripped all HTML5 tags. Converting to mobil format for Amazon Kindle is even worse, I feel as if dealing with the IE6 7. Tee On Jun 30, 2012, at 3:16 AM, David Dorward wrote: On 30 Jun 2012, at 11:04, tee wrote: I thought maybe I can use hyperlink for monolithic instead of adding 3 (which will be directed to Appendix), but this often is not desirable because in other sections of paragraphs where citations are used, there aren't alway clear sentences to hyperlink. A hyperlink (to an aside) is the closest thing HTML has AFAIK. This is for an ebook project, it's different from the webpage, and the readers are more accustom to the footnotes, but footnote doesn't work for ebook format, because devices' sizes vary, and portrait vs landscape view affects text flow too so strictly speaking there isn't pagination. The example syntax given in the EPUB specification[1] is: html … xmlns:epub=http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops; … p … a epub:type=noteref href=#n11/a … /p … aside epub:type=footnote id=n1 … /aside … /html [1] http://idpf.org/epub -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 input type=date / and you
These e-mails aren't intended for me, but I keep receiving them.
Ted Knoy
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 9:57 AM, James Ducker james.duc...@gmail.com wrote:
The only issue I've found so far is that Safari's implementation of the
date type sucks. It gives you little up/down chevrons which add or subtract
one day at a time. So my working code also treats Safari as
datepicker-not-implemented.
For me, as I make use of the valueAsDate property when it's available, it
made more sense to check its existence directly.
Also, Chrome's date picker is pretty annoying when you're trying to enter
DOBs. As far as I can see there's no quick way to jump forward/backward by
decades at a time.
On 2 July 2012 11:11, Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk wrote:
On 02/07/2012 01:55, James Ducker wrote:
element.valueAsDate
This property is designed to solve your locale woes, and it is also an
easy way to feature-detect a browser's native support for the date input
type. I haven't gone through all current browsers yet, so if you do use
this method, make sure to check that none of your browsers support the
property without implementing a date picker.
.valueAsDate, as you might have guessed, returns the input's value as a
Date object. Here's a super-simple feature detect:
if ( !myElement.valueAsDate ) {
// Implement my JavaScript datepicker
}
You can also simply test if the type of your input is reported as
date. Older browsers that don't implement the new HTML5 types simply fall
back to changing them - in the DOM itself - to type=text
if (!myElement.type === text) {
// fallback
}
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__**__**__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com |
http://flickr.com/photos/**redux/http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
__**__**__
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
__**__**__
***
List Guidelines:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/**mail/guidelines.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/**join/unsubscribe.cfmhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberhelp@webstandardsgroup.**orgmemberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
--
*James Ducker*
james.duc...@gmail.com
+61 404 838 470
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
RE: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
Are you referring to a citation tag cite? Greg -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference? In scholarly paper and report, we often use number (e.g.. 1, 2. 3, displays in sup) in between paragraphs when referencing others' work. What is the name of the tag used in such manner in HTML or ebook format? Thanks! Tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
Hi It's called sup/sup Regards Birendra -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Greg Gamble Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 12:36 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference? Are you referring to a citation tag cite? Greg -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference? In scholarly paper and report, we often use number (e.g.. 1, 2. 3, displays in sup) in between paragraphs when referencing others' work. What is the name of the tag used in such manner in HTML or ebook format? Thanks! Tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
Sort of. But I looked up from HTML5 tag, cite doesn't' seem to be the correct ones to use. Example of my text when we do it in a Word document. One model to explain political power, ...is referred to as the monolithic theory . 3 Where 3 is superscribed, and at the footnote of the given page where the quoted texts located, or references (such as a book title, page # etc) In a case like this, wrapping 3 in cite doesn't seem correct to me. I thought maybe I can use hyperlink for monolithic instead of adding 3 (which will be directed to Appendix), but this often is not desirable because in other sections of paragraphs where citations are used, there aren't alway clear sentences to hyperlink. This is for an ebook project, it's different from the webpage, and the readers are more accustom to the footnotes, but footnote doesn't work for ebook format, because devices' sizes vary, and portrait vs landscape view affects text flow too so strictly speaking there isn't pagination. Tee On Jun 30, 2012, at 12:05 AM, Greg Gamble wrote: Are you referring to a citation tag cite? Greg -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference? In scholarly paper and report, we often use number (e.g.. 1, 2. 3, displays in sup) in between paragraphs when referencing others' work. What is the name of the tag used in such manner in HTML or ebook format? Thanks! Tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
On 30 Jun 2012, at 11:04, tee wrote: I thought maybe I can use hyperlink for monolithic instead of adding 3 (which will be directed to Appendix), but this often is not desirable because in other sections of paragraphs where citations are used, there aren't alway clear sentences to hyperlink. A hyperlink (to an aside) is the closest thing HTML has AFAIK. This is for an ebook project, it's different from the webpage, and the readers are more accustom to the footnotes, but footnote doesn't work for ebook format, because devices' sizes vary, and portrait vs landscape view affects text flow too so strictly speaking there isn't pagination. The example syntax given in the EPUB specification[1] is: html … xmlns:epub=http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops; … p … a epub:type=noteref href=#n11/a … /p … aside epub:type=footnote id=n1 … /aside … /html [1] http://idpf.org/epub -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] cross-browser or vendor-specific CSS
Learn something new everyday. Never heard of this before!
Sent from iOS 5
On Jun 30, 2012, at 12:03 AM, David Hucklesby huckle...@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/29/12 11:08 AM, coder wrote:
- Original Message - From: David Hucklesby
Start with a simple design for mobile and old browsers. Add advanced
CSS inside @media queries or qualified by :root.
qualified by :root? can you give us an example here?
In HTML, :root is functionally equivalent to html. Not supported by IE
prior to version 9, so a rule like this:
:root .thumbs .figure { display: inline-block; }
...would be ignored by old IE.
HTH
--
Cordially,
David
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
[WSG] Bobby is away Re: WSG Digest
Hi there. Thanks for getting in touch. I am on holiday. I'll speak to you when I get back. Bobby -- http://about.me/slobodanka.bobby.graham *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] cross-browser or vendor-specific CSS
Firstly “Do websites need to look exactly the same in every browser?”
http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/
This wasn't on my radar, but even still, there are better solutions out
there to handle CSS. I looked through the little documentation that this
tool gave, and I doubt it has the level of support that Compass and SASS
have. I would stick with Compass and SASS; they have a good following and
community around them and there are loads of extensions (mixins, functions
etc.) in Github and the like.
http://compass-style.org
http://sass-lang.com
On 30 June 2012 13:55, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:
Learn something new everyday. Never heard of this before!
Sent from iOS 5
On Jun 30, 2012, at 12:03 AM, David Hucklesby huckle...@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/29/12 11:08 AM, coder wrote:
- Original Message - From: David Hucklesby
Start with a simple design for mobile and old browsers. Add advanced
CSS inside @media queries or qualified by :root.
qualified by :root? can you give us an example here?
In HTML, :root is functionally equivalent to html. Not supported by IE
prior to version 9, so a rule like this:
:root .thumbs .figure { display: inline-block; }
...would be ignored by old IE.
HTH
--
Cordially,
David
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
--
Warm regards,
Kevin Rapley / User Experience Designer
0772 345 7862
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
Re: [WSG] cross-browser or vendor-specific CSS
For the record, I was referring to :root, not the site mentioned by the OP.
Sent from iOS 5
On Jun 30, 2012, at 6:43 PM, Kevin Rapley ke...@digikev.co.uk wrote:
Firstly “Do websites need to look exactly the same in every browser?”
http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/
This wasn't on my radar, but even still, there are better solutions out there
to handle CSS. I looked through the little documentation that this tool gave,
and I doubt it has the level of support that Compass and SASS have. I would
stick with Compass and SASS; they have a good following and community around
them and there are loads of extensions (mixins, functions etc.) in Github and
the like.
http://compass-style.org
http://sass-lang.com
On 30 June 2012 13:55, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:
Learn something new everyday. Never heard of this before!
Sent from iOS 5
On Jun 30, 2012, at 12:03 AM, David Hucklesby huckle...@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/29/12 11:08 AM, coder wrote:
- Original Message - From: David Hucklesby
Start with a simple design for mobile and old browsers. Add advanced
CSS inside @media queries or qualified by :root.
qualified by :root? can you give us an example here?
In HTML, :root is functionally equivalent to html. Not supported by IE
prior to version 9, so a rule like this:
:root .thumbs .figure { display: inline-block; }
...would be ignored by old IE.
HTH
--
Cordially,
David
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
--
Warm regards,
Kevin Rapley / User Experience Designer
0772 345 7862
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
Re: [WSG] cross-browser or vendor-specific CSS
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Kevin Erickson kevinlerick...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I am asking if anyone uses http://ecsstender.org/ to write CSS cross-browser code or, if not, what are you using to write CSS cross-browser or vendor-specific code? Many thanks! Kevin I do not use this. I rely on progressive enhancement. If IE has square corners instead of round, for example, so be it. It's ok. It doesn't render the content inaccessible. I do, however, use http://selectivizr.com/ to make my life easier as it allows the use of advanced selectors which saves some extra fussing and extra markup for old browsers. HTH -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] cross-browser or vendor-specific CSS
On 6/29/12 7:20 AM, Kevin Erickson wrote: Hi, I am asking if anyone uses http://ecsstender.org/ to write CSS cross-browser code or, if not, what are you using to write CSS cross-browser or vendor-specific code? Short answer - I don't even try to make all browsers act alike. :) Start with a simple design for mobile and old browsers. Add advanced CSS inside @media queries or qualified by :root. Enhance IE 7 and 8 if you need to with rules governed by conditional comments. This is my version of progressive enhancement. YMMV. Looking at the documentation for eCSStender suggests to me there's going to be a severe performance hit on page load. I hope I'm wrong. -- Cordially, David *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] cross-browser or vendor-specific CSS
- Original Message - From: David Hucklesby huckle...@gmail.com To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: Kevin Erickson kevinlerick...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] cross-browser or vendor-specific CSS Start with a simple design for mobile and old browsers. Add advanced CSS inside @media queries or qualified by :root. qualified by :root? can you give us an example here? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
I'm going to be out of the office until Tuesday 17th July. For all urgent matters, please email: Jeremy (j...@geemultimedia.com.au) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] cross-browser or vendor-specific CSS
On 6/29/12 11:08 AM, coder wrote:
- Original Message - From: David Hucklesby
Start with a simple design for mobile and old browsers. Add advanced
CSS inside @media queries or qualified by :root.
qualified by :root? can you give us an example here?
In HTML, :root is functionally equivalent to html. Not supported by IE
prior to version 9, so a rule like this:
:root .thumbs .figure { display: inline-block; }
...would be ignored by old IE.
HTH
--
Cordially,
David
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
I am currently out of the office and will respond to your email on my return *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: ADMIN Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Sorry Lea, I get around 100 emails a day. Accessibility is in the scope of my work. AOL definitely isn't. ... and if everyone on this forum had just a little bit of chatter OT then it makes it hard to find the posts on topic. c. On 16/06/12 9:35 AM, Chris Pearce wrote: I'm sorry but how is this related to Web Standards? Its not relevant to web standards, but when the list is quiet (as the word echoes around the room) its harmless to have a little technical off-topic chatter. (but only a little) Lea -- Lea de Groot Core Group Member *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** ** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email, together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems?
Hi Bob I have had this problem several times over the years with customers wishing to have their mail redirected. The first things to check are the obvious ones (not a sop on your ability but computers make us brain dead at times!) Does his account with the hosting company have any restrictions on the amount of POP3 redirects as many do? Or two with the same address such as admin@ and admin@-redirect? Most host providers use third party email clients and for some unknown reason I have at times simply deleted all the mail accounts on the domain, then refreshed and redone and they have worked? Have you actually tested that mail sent to the domain address can be accessed in the mail box even if not redirected? Finally, it's extremely easy to make a minor miss-spell when doing web work. A water test I always use with these problems is to quickly setup a temp Hotmail or yahoo address and redirect there and see if it arrives. If it does than the problem is with his AOL mail account. If not, its domain side. If you have checked all these Bob then you can't do anymore and it's up to the domain support to sort out as you don't have backend access. Dan - Original Message - From: coder To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 9:49 AM Subject: [WSG] AOL mail problems? Has anyone encountered problems with AOL mail such as this: A friend of mine has a website for his business and he has a domain. I set it for him so that his domain mail redirects to joeblo...@aol.com (he doesn't want his mail published here, so I made that name up :-) However, he informs me that mail does not arrive from his domain address, but it does from his ail mail. Am I missing something? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems?
Thanks, Dan,for your comprehensive answer! I have tried everything you mention and I can't see anything wrong - it's driving me potty! I've done this several+ times over the years and not had a problem . I was beginning to wonder about AOL not allowing domains not owned by them to be redirected . . . or something. I have not been able to check that mail sent to the domain address can be accessed in the mail box even if not redirected, as the customer simply doesn't understand what to do and wouldn't do even if I gave him full complete instructions! Thanks again. Bob - Original Message - From: Danny Vose To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems? Hi Bob I have had this problem several times over the years with customers wishing to have their mail redirected. The first things to check are the obvious ones (not a sop on your ability but computers make us brain dead at times!) Does his account with the hosting company have any restrictions on the amount of POP3 redirects as many do? Or two with the same address such as admin@ and admin@-redirect? Most host providers use third party email clients and for some unknown reason I have at times simply deleted all the mail accounts on the domain, then refreshed and redone and they have worked? Have you actually tested that mail sent to the domain address can be accessed in the mail box even if not redirected? Finally, it's extremely easy to make a minor miss-spell when doing web work. A water test I always use with these problems is to quickly setup a temp Hotmail or yahoo address and redirect there and see if it arrives. If it does than the problem is with his AOL mail account. If not, its domain side. If you have checked all these Bob then you can't do anymore and it's up to the domain support to sort out as you don't have backend access. Dan - Original Message - From: coder To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 9:49 AM Subject: [WSG] AOL mail problems? Has anyone encountered problems with AOL mail such as this: A friend of mine has a website for his business and he has a domain. I set it for him so that his domain mail redirects to joeblo...@aol.com (he doesn't want his mail published here, so I made that name up :-) However, he informs me that mail does not arrive from his domain address, but it does from his ail mail. Am I missing something? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems?
What I meant was not for the customer to check his mail but for you to try and login through his dashboard. I dont like AOL but it wouldnt be the redirect to them thats causing it? I have been building sites for 10 years plus now and as Ive said it happens often and like all simple snags its a nightmare. Its important you use elimination though Bob. If you setup a hotmail in 5 mins, change the redirect to that, and if the mail arrives its AOL/Customer side. If it doesnt, its email client side which support will have to sort. 99% of the time its on the domain/email client side so I would do that Bob and then at least you clearly distance yourself from the cause if it comes down to complaints about your work. Only a week or so ago I built a co.uk for a young lady, tested the mail and she wasnt receiving any? Did all the usual but no joy. I then asked her if I may have her password into her hotmail box to check hotmail and she could change the password after (I realise not everyone would allow this) Do you know what the problem was? The redirect email she gave me was wrong! It only takes someone to send you their email address and put a dash instead of an underscore, or spell or omit a letter and thats the answer! I often (very often) have customers sending emails that dont work. You or I may send a proper hyperlink, but customers write them out and so many people get theri own email address wrong. Its worth a check if your tearing your hair out. Dan - Original Message - From: coder To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems? Thanks, Dan,for your comprehensive answer! I have tried everything you mention and I can't see anything wrong - it's driving me potty! I've done this several+ times over the years and not had a problem . I was beginning to wonder about AOL not allowing domains not owned by them to be redirected . . . or something. I have not been able to check that mail sent to the domain address can be accessed in the mail box even if not redirected, as the customer simply doesn't understand what to do and wouldn't do even if I gave him full complete instructions! Thanks again. Bob - Original Message - From: Danny Vose To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems? Hi Bob I have had this problem several times over the years with customers wishing to have their mail redirected. The first things to check are the obvious ones (not a sop on your ability but computers make us brain dead at times!) Does his account with the hosting company have any restrictions on the amount of POP3 redirects as many do? Or two with the same address such as admin@ and admin@-redirect? Most host providers use third party email clients and for some unknown reason I have at times simply deleted all the mail accounts on the domain, then refreshed and redone and they have worked? Have you actually tested that mail sent to the domain address can be accessed in the mail box even if not redirected? Finally, it's extremely easy to make a minor miss-spell when doing web work. A water test I always use with these problems is to quickly setup a temp Hotmail or yahoo address and redirect there and see if it arrives. If it does than the problem is with his AOL mail account. If not, its domain side. If you have checked all these Bob then you can't do anymore and it's up to the domain support to sort out as you don't have backend access. Dan - Original Message - From: coder To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 9:49 AM Subject: [WSG] AOL mail problems? Has anyone encountered problems with AOL mail such as this: A friend of mine has a website for his business and he has a domain. I set it for him so that his domain mail redirects to joeblo...@aol.com (he doesn't want his mail published here, so I made that name up :-) However, he informs me that mail does not arrive from his domain address, but it does from his ail mail. Am I missing something? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List
Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems?
I'm sorry but how is this related to Web Standards?
On Friday, June 15, 2012, Danny Vose wrote:
**
What I meant was not for the customer to check his mail but for you to try
and login through his dashboard. I dont like AOL but it wouldnt be the
redirect to them thats causing it? I have been building sites for 10 years
plus now and as Ive said it happens often and like all simple snags its a
nightmare. Its important you use elimination though Bob. If you setup a
hotmail in 5 mins, change the redirect to that, and if the mail arrives its
AOL/Customer side. If it doesnt, its email client side which support will
have to sort. 99% of the time its on the domain/email client side so I
would do that Bob and then at least you clearly distance yourself from the
cause if it comes down to complaints about your work. Only a week or so ago
I built a co.uk for a young lady, tested the mail and she wasnt receiving
any? Did all the usual but no joy. I then asked her if I may have her
password into her hotmail box to check hotmail and she could change the
password after (I realise not everyone would allow this) Do you know what
the problem was? The redirect email she gave me was wrong! It only takes
someone to send you their email address and put a dash instead of an
underscore, or spell or omit a letter and thats the answer! I often (very
often) have customers sending emails that dont work. You or I may send a
proper hyperlink, but customers write them out and so many people get theri
own email address wrong. Its worth a check if your tearing your hair out.
Dan
- Original Message -
*From:* coder javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'co...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk');
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org');
*Sent:* Friday, June 15, 2012 12:00 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems?
Thanks, Dan,for your comprehensive answer! I have tried everything you
mention and I can't see anything wrong - it's driving me potty! I've done
this several+ times over the years and not had a problem . I was beginning
to wonder about AOL not allowing domains not owned by them to be redirected
. . . or something.
I have not been able to check that mail sent to the domain address can
be accessed in the mail box even if not redirected, as the customer simply
doesn't understand what to do and wouldn't do even if I gave him full
complete instructions!
Thanks again.
Bob
- Original Message -
*From:* Danny Vose
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Sent:* Friday, June 15, 2012 11:29 AM
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems?
Hi Bob
I have had this problem several times over the years with customers
wishing to have their mail redirected. The first things to check are the
obvious ones (not a sop on your ability but computers make us brain dead at
times!) Does his account with the hosting company have any restrictions on
the amount of POP3 redirects as many do? Or two with the same address such
as admin@ and admin@-redirect? Most host providers use third party email
clients and for some unknown reason I have at times simply deleted all the
mail accounts on the domain, then refreshed and redone and they have
worked? Have you actually tested that mail sent to the domain address can
be accessed in the mail box even if not redirected? Finally, it’s extremely
easy to make a minor miss-spell when doing web work. A water test I always
use with these problems is to quickly setup a temp Hotmail or yahoo address
and redirect there and see if it arrives. If it does than the problem is
with his AOL mail account. If not, its domain side. If you have checked all
these Bob then you can’t do anymore and it’s up to the domain support to
sort out as you don’t have backend access.
Dan
- Original Message -
*From:* coder
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Sent:* Friday, June 15, 2012 9:49 AM
*Subject:* [WSG] AOL mail problems?
Has anyone encountered problems with AOL mail such as this:
A friend of mine has a website for his business and he has a domain. I set
it for him so that his domain mail redirects to joeblo...@aol.com (he
doesn't want his mail published here, so I made that name up :-)
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org');
***
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
ADMIN Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems?
On 16/06/12 9:35 AM, Chris Pearce wrote: I'm sorry but how is this related to Web Standards? Its not relevant to web standards, but when the list is quiet (as the word echoes around the room) its harmless to have a little technical off-topic chatter. (but only a little) Lea -- Lea de Groot Core Group Member *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest (Out of office reply-Maternity leave)
I am currently on Maternity leave. Please contact Anna Moretti in my absence. Kind regards, Claire Helme wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 06/14/12 10:47 * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Blumer, Luke luke.blu...@ato.gov.au Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:39:30 +1000 Subject: Page titles and WCAG2.0 compliance [SEC=UNOFFICIAL] Hi all, Thanks for all your help in regards to the Skip to issue I was having. I have another question in regards to Page titles. We are currently looking at ALL web pages in the following format: Homepage: Australian Taxation Office | Home All other web pages: Page Title | Australian Taxation Office We are keen to have it in this format as it then provides a better search e ngine (such as Google) experience. However before we take this step we want to ensure it does not cause any issues with WCAG 2.0 and consistency? Once again thankyou in advance for any help. Regards, LUKE BLUMER Web Project Officer Australian Taxation Office ATO | Working for all Australians ** IMPORTANT The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the Privacy Hotline of the Australian Taxation Office, telephone 13 2869 and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
Russ Weakley r...@maxdesign.com.au wrote: In order to comply with Success Criterion 2.4.1 Bypass Blocks – you must provide a mechanism to “bypass blocks of content that are repeated on multiple Web pages. (Level A) One of the “sufficient techniques” recommended by the W3C for bypassing blocks is the use of skip links. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/G1.html Aria Landmarks are great for some user types and well supported by JAWS, NVDA, OSX VoiceOver (reasonably well supported by WindowEyes). However, these landmark roles do not help those who may not use a mouse for a variety of reasons (such as some sort of motor skill issue etc). So, using a combination of skip links and landmarks may be better. A lot of mixed opinions on skip links but some general principles 1. include skip links if at all possible 2. keep them simple - like a simple skip to content only 3. if possible make them visible 4. if you cannot make them visible, make them focus/active visible: http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/example-skip/03.htm Be aware that some browsers don't play well with skip links. Thanks Russ On 05/06/2012, at 2:49 PM, Blumer, Luke wrote: Hi All, We are currently in the process of redesigning our website and are looking into the Skip to functionality. We are currently considering using: • Skip to Search • Skip to Primary Navigation • Skip to Secondary Navigation • Skip to Main Content • Skip to Sitemap We are wondering if there is any information on best practice for the Skip to function and whether there is a generally acceptable limit as to how many Skip to links should be used? We are also wondering whether we should be considering other ways for users to navigate around our pages such as AccessKey http://validator.w3.org/accesskeys.html and whether this technique should be used to reduce the number of Skip to links we have listed above? Is there any native browser functionality that performs any of these functions that we should account for? Thankyou in advance for any advice. Regards, Luke Blumer Web Project Officer | Corporate Relations Australian Taxation Office Phone: 02 6216 2970 ** IMPORTANT The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the Privacy Hotline of the Australian Taxation Office, telephone 13 2869 and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
I agree with the consensus that less is more with the skip navigation links at the top of the document. “Skip to main content” in the majority of cases will be all you need. If you are getting to a point where by rights you need a skip link, to skip the list of skip links, as they have grown so long you know you are following a bad path ;) Another school of thinking is to write the HTML source order so that navigation appears after the content, and use CSS to relocate the menu to the top of the page for sighted users. Of course you would still benefit from a skip link at the start of the navigation menu to skip past it/return to start of content. Note, it is a common misconception that users of assistive technologies linearly read a web page, when in fact the tools they have at their disposal allow them to traverse a page in multiple different ways. For instance, they can call out a dialog which lists all of the links on the page, or gain context by traversing a semantic document tree of the nested headings on the page. In these contexts, skip navigation is largely useless. This may be overkill, I will be interested to hear opinions, but I also place a note with ability to return to the top of the page too: div class=accessibility role=note smallEnd of page./small hr / a href=#pageReturn to top of page/a /div!-- / .accessibility -- /body /html I guess this could be extended to have a further link to “Return to start of content.” The idea with this is to notify the user that they have reached the end of the document, and rather than leave them at a loose end, give them options to traverse elsewhere. On 5 June 2012 05:49, Blumer, Luke luke.blu...@ato.gov.au wrote: ** Hi All, We are currently in the process of redesigning our website and are looking into the Skip to functionality. We are currently considering using: - Skip to Search - Skip to Primary Navigation - Skip to Secondary Navigation - Skip to Main Content - Skip to Sitemap We are wondering if there is any information on best practice for the Skip to function and whether there is a generally acceptable limit as to how many Skip to links should be used? We are also wondering whether we should be considering other ways for users to navigate around our pages such as AccessKey *** http://validator.w3.org/accesskeys.html*http://validator.w3.org/accesskeys.htmland whether this technique should be used to reduce the number of Skip to links we have listed above? Is there any native browser functionality that performs any of these functions that we should account for? Thankyou in advance for any advice. Regards, *Luke Blumer* Web Project Officer | Corporate Relations Australian Taxation Office Phone: 02 621*6 2970* ** IMPORTANT The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the Privacy Hotline of the Australian Taxation Office, telephone 13 2869 and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Warm regards, Kevin Rapley / User Experience Consultant 0115 714 2337 / 0772 345 7862 http://yoo-zuh-buhl.co.uk Yoo-zuh-buhl, The Terrace, Cultural Quarter, Grantham Road, Lincoln, LN2 1BD *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
I do not recommend putting the navigation after the content. In fact I would go as far as to say it's a really bad practice because it violates every user's expectation of where the navigation will be. Using CSS to position it above the content makes things even worse because the tab order no longer follows the visual order. The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines specifically state that the DOM order should match the visual order - see http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/C27 I have no problem with the 'Return to top of page' link, although the purists would argue that it is merely replicating the function of the Home key. Of course tablets and mobile phones don't have a Home key, which sort of undermines that argument. Steve From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Rapley Sent: 05 June 2012 22:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL] I agree with the consensus that less is more with the skip navigation links at the top of the document. Skip to main content in the majority of cases will be all you need. If you are getting to a point where by rights you need a skip link, to skip the list of skip links, as they have grown so long you know you are following a bad path ;) Another school of thinking is to write the HTML source order so that navigation appears after the content, and use CSS to relocate the menu to the top of the page for sighted users. Of course you would still benefit from a skip link at the start of the navigation menu to skip past it/return to start of content. Note, it is a common misconception that users of assistive technologies linearly read a web page, when in fact the tools they have at their disposal allow them to traverse a page in multiple different ways. For instance, they can call out a dialog which lists all of the links on the page, or gain context by traversing a semantic document tree of the nested headings on the page. In these contexts, skip navigation is largely useless. This may be overkill, I will be interested to hear opinions, but I also place a note with ability to return to the top of the page too: div class=accessibility role=note smallEnd of page./small hr / a href=#pageReturn to top of page/a /div!-- / .accessibility -- /body /html I guess this could be extended to have a further link to Return to start of content. The idea with this is to notify the user that they have reached the end of the document, and rather than leave them at a loose end, give them options to traverse elsewhere. On 5 June 2012 05:49, Blumer, Luke luke.blu...@ato.gov.aumailto:luke.blu...@ato.gov.au wrote: Hi All, We are currently in the process of redesigning our website and are looking into the Skip to functionality. We are currently considering using: * Skip to Search * Skip to Primary Navigation * Skip to Secondary Navigation * Skip to Main Content * Skip to Sitemap We are wondering if there is any information on best practice for the Skip to function and whether there is a generally acceptable limit as to how many Skip to links should be used? We are also wondering whether we should be considering other ways for users to navigate around our pages such as AccessKey http://validator.w3.org/accesskeys.html and whether this technique should be used to reduce the number of Skip to links we have listed above? Is there any native browser functionality that performs any of these functions that we should account for? Thankyou in advance for any advice. Regards, Luke Blumer Web Project Officer | Corporate Relations Australian Taxation Office Phone: 02 6216 2970 ** IMPORTANT The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the Privacy Hotline of the Australian Taxation Office, telephone 13 2869 and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh
Re: [WSG] Source order of content / navigation
An interesting discussion... Back in 2006, Roger Hudson, Lisa Miller and I conducted testing on three aspects associated with screen reader use (skip links, source order and structural lables). The findings regarding source order: t appears that when visiting a web page, most, if not all, screen reader users expect at least the main site navigation to be presented before the content of the page. There appears to be little evidence to support the view that screen reader users would prefer to have the content presented first, or find sites easier to use when this occurs. It is our view, that a continuation of the practice of placing navigation before the content of the page will benefit some screen reader users, in particular those users who are still developing their skills with the technology. It is probably desirable however, to present the content of the page before extraneous information, such as advertisements and related links, as well as the page footer. Interpret as you see fit :) Russ On 06/06/2012, at 8:35 AM, Kevin Rapley wrote: I have started a new thread for this discussion, as not to hijack the thread on skip links. Thanks for the reply Steve. As I said, it is another school of thought (not necessarily my own). I wouldn’t use content first source ordering for commercial implementations as the overhead of relocating items in CSS far outweighs any accessibility benefits (at this time). However, with newer layout methods on the horizon, such as CSS flex-box, where reordering source order will be far simpler, this is a very real and worthwhile possibility. I disagree that it is really bad practice. As mentioned, users of assistive technologies will rarely read a page in a linear fashion. WCAG 2 likes to contradict itself (but I am sure you knew that already: WCAG 2.0, includes Success Criterion 2.4.3, which states: 2.4.3 - Blocks of content that are repeated on multiple perceivable units are implemented so that they can be bypassed. (Level 2) WCAG 2.0 - Guideline 2.4.3 The document, Understanding WCAG 2.0 (Working Draft 23 November 2005), includes the following as one of the techniques that can be used to meet Success Criterion 2.4.3: Structuring the content so the main content comes first (in structure - but the default presentation may be a different order), and adding links to the blocks of repeated content. On 5 June 2012 22:57, Steve Green steve.gr...@testpartners.co.uk wrote: I do not recommend putting the navigation after the content. In fact I would go as far as to say it’s a really bad practice because it violates every user’s expectation of where the navigation will be. Using CSS to position it above the content makes things even worse because the tab order no longer follows the visual order. The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines specifically state that the DOM order should match the visual order – see http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/C27 I have no problem with the ‘Return to top of page’ link, although the purists would argue that it is merely replicating the function of the Home key. Of course tablets and mobile phones don’t have a Home key, which sort of undermines that argument. Steve From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Rapley Sent: 05 June 2012 22:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL] I agree with the consensus that less is more with the skip navigation links at the top of the document. “Skip to main content” in the majority of cases will be all you need. If you are getting to a point where by rights you need a skip link, to skip the list of skip links, as they have grown so long you know you are following a bad path ;) Another school of thinking is to write the HTML source order so that navigation appears after the content, and use CSS to relocate the menu to the top of the page for sighted users. Of course you would still benefit from a skip link at the start of the navigation menu to skip past it/return to start of content. Note, it is a common misconception that users of assistive technologies linearly read a web page, when in fact the tools they have at their disposal allow them to traverse a page in multiple different ways. For instance, they can call out a dialog which lists all of the links on the page, or gain context by traversing a semantic document tree of the nested headings on the page. In these contexts, skip navigation is largely useless. This may be overkill, I will be interested to hear opinions, but I also place a note with ability to return to the top of the page too: div class=accessibility role=note
RE: [WSG] Source order of content / navigation
I am familiar with that research but until now I didn't realise that Russ had been involved - well done for the good work. The source order does not only affect people who use assistive technologies. Many people use keyboard-only navigation, and it is very confusing when the visual order does not match the source order. I use a lot of keyboard navigation through choice, not necessity, and the BBC website used to drive me to screaming point because the tab order went all over the place even though the visual order was completely conventional. You never knew where to look to find which element had focus. Thankfully most of the pages using that template have been replaced. We do a lot of user testing with people with disabilities and we find that they use a variety of techniques for navigation. The more-experienced ones will adapt their approach depending on the design of the website. The less-experienced ones do indeed tend to navigate in a linear fashion for fear of missing something important. Don't take any notice of the WCAG guidance from 2005 or earlier. The first draft of WCAG 2.0 was radically different from the version that was finally released. Following widespread criticism there was an almost total rewrite in 2007 and 2008. Your particular reference has been rephrased in the latest version at http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-focus-order.html, and it lacks context such as what the left-hand navigation is for and why it is deemed necessary for the focus to move to the main body content first. As a general principle, meeting users' expectations is important for a good user experience. As Steve Krug said, don't make me think. Steve -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Russ Weakley Sent: 05 June 2012 23:53 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Source order of content / navigation An interesting discussion... Back in 2006, Roger Hudson, Lisa Miller and I conducted testing on three aspects associated with screen reader use (skip links, source order and structural lables). The findings regarding source order: t appears that when visiting a web page, most, if not all, screen reader users expect at least the main site navigation to be presented before the content of the page. There appears to be little evidence to support the view that screen reader users would prefer to have the content presented first, or find sites easier to use when this occurs. It is our view, that a continuation of the practice of placing navigation before the content of the page will benefit some screen reader users, in particular those users who are still developing their skills with the technology. It is probably desirable however, to present the content of the page before extraneous information, such as advertisements and related links, as well as the page footer. Interpret as you see fit :) Russ On 06/06/2012, at 8:35 AM, Kevin Rapley wrote: I have started a new thread for this discussion, as not to hijack the thread on skip links. Thanks for the reply Steve. As I said, it is another school of thought (not necessarily my own). I wouldn't use content first source ordering for commercial implementations as the overhead of relocating items in CSS far outweighs any accessibility benefits (at this time). However, with newer layout methods on the horizon, such as CSS flex-box, where reordering source order will be far simpler, this is a very real and worthwhile possibility. I disagree that it is really bad practice. As mentioned, users of assistive technologies will rarely read a page in a linear fashion. WCAG 2 likes to contradict itself (but I am sure you knew that already: WCAG 2.0, includes Success Criterion 2.4.3, which states: 2.4.3 - Blocks of content that are repeated on multiple perceivable units are implemented so that they can be bypassed. (Level 2) WCAG 2.0 - Guideline 2.4.3 The document, Understanding WCAG 2.0 (Working Draft 23 November 2005), includes the following as one of the techniques that can be used to meet Success Criterion 2.4.3: Structuring the content so the main content comes first (in structure - but the default presentation may be a different order), and adding links to the blocks of repeated content. On 5 June 2012 22:57, Steve Green steve.gr...@testpartners.co.uk wrote: I do not recommend putting the navigation after the content. In fact I would go as far as to say it's a really bad practice because it violates every user's expectation of where the navigation will be. Using CSS to position it above the content makes things even worse because the tab order no longer follows the visual order. The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines specifically state that the DOM order should match the visual order - see http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/C27 I
Re: [WSG] Source order of content / navigation
ooops. Reference: http://usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm#conclusion t appears that when visiting a web page, most, if not all, screen reader users expect at least the main site navigation to be presented before the content of the page. There appears to be little evidence to support the view that screen reader users would prefer to have the content presented first, or find sites easier to use when this occurs. It is our view, that a continuation of the practice of placing navigation before the content of the page will benefit some screen reader users, in particular those users who are still developing their skills with the technology. It is probably desirable however, to present the content of the page before extraneous information, such as advertisements and related links, as well as the page footer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Market share of smartphones in Australia
Well, I've dropped a csv file here: http://vikings.homeip.net/temp/Analytics-Devices-20120504-20120603.csv It shows mobile visit data over the last month from 2 (thus the 2 columns) moderate-volume sites that are visited by typical 'mum and dad' users. (Data from Google Analytics) Man those Apple device are popular! Hope it helps. Lea -- Lea de Groot Brisbane, .au On 4/06/12 1:39 PM, Grant Bailey wrote: Would someone be able to provide me with recent information about the market share of the different smartphones in Australia. I have not been able to find much using Google since such data is usually subscription-only. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
Hi Luke, This is my first post so hope you find my answer useful You should consider using WAI-ARIA landmarks here are couple of link http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2010/10/using-wai-aria-landmark-roles/ http://juicystudio.com/article/examining-wai-aria-document-andmark-roles.php Regards Christos On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Blumer, Luke luke.blu...@ato.gov.au wrote: ** Hi All, We are currently in the process of redesigning our website and are looking into the Skip to functionality. We are currently considering using: - Skip to Search - Skip to Primary Navigation - Skip to Secondary Navigation - Skip to Main Content - Skip to Sitemap We are wondering if there is any information on best practice for the Skip to function and whether there is a generally acceptable limit as to how many Skip to links should be used? We are also wondering whether we should be considering other ways for users to navigate around our pages such as AccessKey *** http://validator.w3.org/accesskeys.html*http://validator.w3.org/accesskeys.htmland whether this technique should be used to reduce the number of Skip to links we have listed above? Is there any native browser functionality that performs any of these functions that we should account for? Thankyou in advance for any advice. Regards, *Luke Blumer* Web Project Officer | Corporate Relations Australian Taxation Office Phone: 02 621*6 2970* ** IMPORTANT The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the Privacy Hotline of the Australian Taxation Office, telephone 13 2869 and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Kind Regards Christos Petrou I personally measure success in terms of the contributions an individual makes to her or his fellow human beings. - Margaret Mead (1901-1978) Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead (1901-1978) PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS EMAIL. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
In order to comply with Success Criterion 2.4.1 Bypass Blocks – you must provide a mechanism to “bypass blocks of content that are repeated on multiple Web pages. (Level A) One of the “sufficient techniques” recommended by the W3C for bypassing blocks is the use of skip links. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/G1.html Aria Landmarks are great for some user types and well supported by JAWS, NVDA, OSX VoiceOver (reasonably well supported by WindowEyes). However, these landmark roles do not help those who may not use a mouse for a variety of reasons (such as some sort of motor skill issue etc). So, using a combination of skip links and landmarks may be better. A lot of mixed opinions on skip links but some general principles 1. include skip links if at all possible 2. keep them simple - like a simple skip to content only 3. if possible make them visible 4. if you cannot make them visible, make them focus/active visible: http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/example-skip/03.htm Be aware that some browsers don't play well with skip links. Thanks Russ On 05/06/2012, at 2:49 PM, Blumer, Luke wrote: Hi All, We are currently in the process of redesigning our website and are looking into the Skip to functionality. We are currently considering using: • Skip to Search • Skip to Primary Navigation • Skip to Secondary Navigation • Skip to Main Content • Skip to Sitemap We are wondering if there is any information on best practice for the Skip to function and whether there is a generally acceptable limit as to how many Skip to links should be used? We are also wondering whether we should be considering other ways for users to navigate around our pages such as AccessKey http://validator.w3.org/accesskeys.html and whether this technique should be used to reduce the number of Skip to links we have listed above? Is there any native browser functionality that performs any of these functions that we should account for? Thankyou in advance for any advice. Regards, Luke Blumer Web Project Officer | Corporate Relations Australian Taxation Office Phone: 02 6216 2970 ** IMPORTANT The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the Privacy Hotline of the Australian Taxation Office, telephone 13 2869 and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] What is the best element?
On 01/06/2012 21:00, Tom Livingston wrote: a definition What's most semantic and appropriate? a definition list? P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ __ twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of the Office Re: WSG Digest
I am currently out of the office until June 4, If you need immediate assistance please contact Darla Ware at extension 7-5777 Best Regards, Janet Jaffke -- • Janet Jaffke Director Content Strategy and UI Illinois Institute of Technology 3300 S. Federal Chicago, IL 60616 312.567.3155 • *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] What is the best element?
Hi everyone, This is my first time to answer this group ? hope you all accept me as a friend. ul and li is more preferable than p because when we going to SEO ulli is for Listing purposes p for paragraphs Chatura *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] What is the best element?
A definition list dl is the most semantic approach. Debbie Johnson On 2012-06-01 21:00, Tom Livingston wrote: Hi listers, I have a graphic map with icons and will have a separate container for a map icon legend. This legend will consist of each different icon that appears on the map and NEXT TO each icon, a definition. My questions is what element(s) would be most appropriate for that legends. It could be: Shipping facility ... ... ... or a instead of s? What's most semantic and appropriate? TIA! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] What is the best element?
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk wrote: On 01/06/2012 21:00, Tom Livingston wrote: a definition What's most semantic and appropriate? a definition list? P -- Patrick H. Lauke I was going this way but than was a little stumped with the structure. This look right? dl dtimg src=airplane.png alt=Airplane Icon //dt ddShipping facility/dd ... /dl I don't use dls much. I'm not sure the above is proper. Suggestions? -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] What is the best element?
Tom - Your markup should work. For a detailed description, look at http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3 [1] Debbie On 2012-06-01 21:28, Tom Livingston wrote: On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk wrote: On 01/06/2012 21:00, Tom Livingston wrote: a definition What's most semantic and appropriate? a definition list? P -- Patrick H. Lauke I was going this way but than was a little stumped with the structure. This look right? Shipping facility... I don't use s much. I'm not sure the above is proper. Suggestions? Links: -- [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] What is the best element?
Thanks all On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 4:40 PM, d...@danceofthebee.com wrote: ** Tom - Your markup should work. For a detailed description, look at http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3 Debbie On 2012-06-01 21:28, Tom Livingston wrote: On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk wrote: On 01/06/2012 21:00, Tom Livingston wrote: a definition What's most semantic and appropriate? a definition list? P -- Patrick H. Lauke I was going this way but than was a little stumped with the structure. This look right? [image: Airplane Icon]Shipping facility... I don't use s much. I'm not sure the above is proper. Suggestions? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] What is the best element?
Your markup should work. For a detailed description, look at http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3 HTML5 has also broadened out the use of the DL: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/ The dl element now represents an association list of name-value groups, and is no longer said to be appropriate for dialogue. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/grouping-content.html#the-dl-element The dl element represents an association list consisting of zero or more name-value groups (a description list). Each group must consist of one or more names (dt elements) followed by one or more values (dd elements). Within a single dl element, there should not be more than one dt element for each name. Name-value groups may be terms and definitions, metadata topics and values, questions and answers, or any other groups of name-value data. HTH Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Very Neat. On May 26, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Justin Avery wrote: Trent Walton originally wrote about it with his article, , before Jordan Moore expanded on the idea with http://www.jordanm.co.uk/post/21863299677/building-with-content-choreography and was even nice enough to produce us a workable demo, http://www.jordanm.co.uk/contentchoreography and explains further http://www.jordanm.co.uk/contentchoreographydemo. In the demo, navigation in the source code is still sitting below the header section when the screen is at 480px and below. How does this work for AT (VoiceOver for example) though if I want the navigation stay below the fold? I don't supposed the AT is smart enough to do what I want if I don't place the navigation code at the bottom section of the page. tee On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 3:57 PM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote From: tee weblis...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:14:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [WSG] Media queries and roles Don't know the answer for sure, but if you display none or make it invisible AT would ignore it no? My logic is, display:none invisible should precede ARIA elements. If a site speficically told the AT not to display a block of content, it shouldn't bother to annouce the role(s) within it to confuse user. When doing RWD instead of mobile adaptation, that navigation goes to the bottom of the page for the consideration of Mobile version, my approach is to use absolute position to target the desktop version's navigation instead of making duplication. tee On May 24, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: List, We have a project being worked on that is being done using RWD. For mobile, we are repeating the nav at the bottom of the page and showing/hiding - with display: block/none; - the appropriate navbar based on min-width media queries. My question is if the desktop main nav has a role of 'navigation', should the mobile nav at the bottom have that same role? Will that mess up screen readers et al? TIA -- * From: Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 08:44:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Media queries and roles On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote: Don't know the answer for sure, but if you display none or make it invisi ble AT would ignore it no? My logic is, display:none invisible should pre cede ARIA elements. If a site speficically told the AT not to display a blo ck of content, it shouldn't bother to annouce the role(s) within it to conf use user. When doing RWD instead of mobile adaptation, that navigation goes to t he bottom of the page for the consideration of Mobile version, my approach is to use absolute position to target the desktop version's navigation inst ead of making duplication. tee On May 24, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: List, Thanks tee. My thoughts as well, but wasn't sure. Also, I thought of absolute pos., but I do not think the structure I need will work with that. Thanks again -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Media queries and roles
Hi Tom if you use display none then AT like JAWS will ignore the element. Regards Christos On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 10:44 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote: Don't know the answer for sure, but if you display none or make it invisible AT would ignore it no? My logic is, display:none invisible should precede ARIA elements. If a site speficically told the AT not to display a block of content, it shouldn't bother to annouce the role(s) within it to confuse user. When doing RWD instead of mobile adaptation, that navigation goes to the bottom of the page for the consideration of Mobile version, my approach is to use absolute position to target the desktop version's navigation instead of making duplication. tee On May 24, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: List, Thanks tee. My thoughts as well, but wasn't sure. Also, I thought of absolute pos., but I do not think the structure I need will work with that. Thanks again -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Kind Regards Christos Petrou I personally measure success in terms of the contributions an individual makes to her or his fellow human beings. - Margaret Mead (1901-1978) Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead (1901-1978) PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS EMAIL. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
You could look at implementing a solution that uses -flex-box to change the orientation/order of your page elements at each break point. Trent Walton originally wrote about it with his article, , before Jordan Moore expanded on the idea with http://www.jordanm.co.uk/post/21863299677/building-with-content-choreographyand was even nice enough to produce us a workable demo, http://www.jordanm.co.uk/contentchoreography and explains further http://www.jordanm.co.uk/contentchoreographydemo. On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 3:57 PM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: tee weblis...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:14:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [WSG] Media queries and roles Don't know the answer for sure, but if you display none or make it invisible AT would ignore it no? My logic is, display:none invisible should precede ARIA elements. If a site speficically told the AT not to display a block of content, it shouldn't bother to annouce the role(s) within it to confuse user. When doing RWD instead of mobile adaptation, that navigation goes to the bottom of the page for the consideration of Mobile version, my approach is to use absolute position to target the desktop version's navigation instead of making duplication. tee On May 24, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: List, We have a project being worked on that is being done using RWD. For mobile, we are repeating the nav at the bottom of the page and showing/hiding - with display: block/none; - the appropriate navbar based on min-width media queries. My question is if the desktop main nav has a role of 'navigation', should the mobile nav at the bottom have that same role? Will that mess up screen readers et al? TIA -- * From: Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 08:44:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Media queries and roles On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote: Don't know the answer for sure, but if you display none or make it invisi ble AT would ignore it no? My logic is, display:none invisible should pre cede ARIA elements. If a site speficically told the AT not to display a blo ck of content, it shouldn't bother to annouce the role(s) within it to conf use user. When doing RWD instead of mobile adaptation, that navigation goes to t he bottom of the page for the consideration of Mobile version, my approach is to use absolute position to target the desktop version's navigation inst ead of making duplication. tee On May 24, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: List, Thanks tee. My thoughts as well, but wasn't sure. Also, I thought of absolute pos., but I do not think the structure I need will work with that. Thanks again -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** -- Justin Avery *We Build Websites* http://justinavery.me http://www.twitter.com/justinavery *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Media queries and roles
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote: Don't know the answer for sure, but if you display none or make it invisible AT would ignore it no? My logic is, display:none invisible should precede ARIA elements. If a site speficically told the AT not to display a block of content, it shouldn't bother to annouce the role(s) within it to confuse user. When doing RWD instead of mobile adaptation, that navigation goes to the bottom of the page for the consideration of Mobile version, my approach is to use absolute position to target the desktop version's navigation instead of making duplication. tee On May 24, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: List, Thanks tee. My thoughts as well, but wasn't sure. Also, I thought of absolute pos., but I do not think the structure I need will work with that. Thanks again -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
