Re: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Narinder & Tom,
You can move the structure, including relations, out of Projects via the
Export Structure to XML command and build a new database based on that.
However this only exports the actual structure. Importing the methods from
the Project folder is no big deal. The deal is getting the forms back. No
way to do that. I doubt they are going to invest the resources to build the
equivalent of Convert form to dynamic to go the other way.

But that is certainly something you could post on the forum as a feature
request.

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:56 PM Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Yes, you're correct, currently the move from binary to Project format is
> one way, whether this will become bi-directional I don't know. It is still
> possible to compile back to a single binary though so the step to go from
> Project to interpreted structure binary should surely be possible??
>
> Yes, Branching is a core concept of working with Git.
>
> I think what each of your developers need to do is to Checkout a Git repo
> Feature Branch of Master and export their changes into that. Then, they
> Push that Feature Branch up to Master and make a Pull request into Master.
> Once approved then the Feature Branch is merged into Master. Other
> developers would do the same. Then, each developer Pulls Master to update
> their local Checked out copy of Master. They can Diff that against their
> previous Feature Branch which will give them a list of all the changes that
> the _other_ developers have made and merged into Master and synch their
> structure up.
>
> I think that's it above! The ultimate benefit of all that is that your
> devs are only ever moving around Diffs, not the whole structure export.
>
> Regards,
>
> Narinder Chandi,
> ToolBox Systems Ltd.
>
> I am available for new consulting opportunities…
> http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/ANN-4D-Developer-Available-td5765443.html
> --
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Benedict 
> Date: Thursday, 10 October 2019 at 21:22
> To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Narinder Chandi <4dtechmailingl...@toolbox.uk.com>
> Subject: Re: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development
>
> Thanks for your response Narinder,
>
> >ditch the 4D binary based structure file and use v17's 4D Project
> format
>
> Indeed, that is an attractive option, although it requires 17R5 or
> higher. Once it’s out of beta I may consider it. I’ve heard that once a
> structure is moved to Project Mode, there’s no way to get it out of Project
> Mode. I don’t really know what that means, but that’s one of the reasons I
> haven’t tried it yet.
>
> >Some variation of Gitflow has been used at every client I've worked
> for over the last few years (in a PHP context). I think what you describe
> below loosely maps to Gitflow so take a look at that and see if this is the
> case. Briefly, each of your developers creates their own Feature branch
> from the Master branch on Git, work on it and then merge back into Master
> (there's a bit more to the process but I'm just trying to simplify).
>
> This is great guidance. I wasn’t sure whether each developer would be
> a separate branch or not.
>
> Right now my biggest challenge is logistical. The structure export
> consists of over 55,000 files. Running that every few days and uploading to
> Git takes hours. There’s gotta be a more efficient way.
>
> I’ll check out Gitflow and see whether it can help me.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Tom Benedict
>
> > On Oct 10, 2019, at 13:12, Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > What version of 4D are you using?
> >
> > It seems to me that the way forward for team development (or solo
> for that matter) will be to ditch the 4D binary based structure file and
> use v17's 4D Project format stored that in a Git repo, even though it's
> still Beta it should be finalised soon enough. IMO, this is going to be a
> revolutionary change for managing 4D code and supporting assets.
> >
> > The most popular Git branching model is Gitflow:
> > https://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/
> >
> > Some variation of Gitflow has been used at every client I've worked
> for over the last few years (in a PHP context). I think what you describe
> below loosely maps to Gitflow so take a look at that and see if this is the
> case. Briefly, each of your developers creates their own Feature branch
> from the Master branch on Git, work on it and then merge back into Master
> (there's a bit more to the process but I'm just trying to simplify).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Narinder Chandi,
> > ToolBox Systems Ltd.
> >
> > I am available for new consulting opportunities…
> >
> http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/ANN-4D-Developer-Available-td5765443.html
> > --
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: 4D_Tech 

Re: 4D and FTP - AGAIN

[Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech]

> On 11 Oct 2019, at 09:13 AEDT, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> are you tracing the callback method?

I think I should check this out.


> I do not understand how one would debug "forward/backward/left/right"


Staying constantly in the debugger scrolling up and down and make changes to 
variables, parameters etc. 

> often time in technical discussion (and especially if the other party is a 
> non-native English speaker like me...)
> it would be greatly appreciated if you could describe an issue using terms 
> that are easier to understand…

BTW, I’m a non-native English speaker too but try to follow your request. ;-)


> but I love your lively comments

You’r welcome.


Cheers
Jörg

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D and FTP - AGAIN

[Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech]

Tim,

Thanks.

> On 11 Oct 2019, at 04:23 AEDT, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I’m expecting to get details of this at the next 4D Summit in 2020. 


Fingers crossed.

Cheers
Jörg
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D and FTP - AGAIN

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Oct 10, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Jörg Knebel wrote:

> Or is there a secret plan from 4D to overhaul 4D_Internet_Commands which the 
> World Wide Developer Community will find out about only if they sacrifice a 
> black cat at full moon on the grave of a killer?
> 
> 4D! What about 4D-Internet_Commands???

There certainly is a plan to replace 4D IC plugin. It will be done with native 
4D commands. No plugin will be created. It will done like 4D Write Pro 
replacing the 4D Write plugin. 

The only thing secret is when it will be finished. 

4D IC SMTP email sending has already been done and released in v17 R5. 

https://doc.4d.com/4Dv17R5/4D/17-R5/Mail.201-4127159.en.html

I would expect the remainder of 4D IC to follow the same pattern. New commands 
like “SMTP New transporter” that use objects to appear in v18 to support FTP 
and email retrieval. 

I’m expecting to get details of this at the next 4D Summit in 2020. 

Tim

*
Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com
*

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

[Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech]

I can’t think of any reason one would want to go back, either. Splitting the 
structure into files is something we’ve wanted for _so_ long and opens so many 
opportunities.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Aetna, AB Canada




> On Oct 10, 2019, at 4:38 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Yes, you're correct, currently the move from binary to Project format is one 
>> way, whether this will become bi-directional I don't know. It is still 
>> possible to compile back to a single binary though so the step to go from 
>> Project to interpreted structure binary should surely be possible??
> 
> This was asked to JPR at the last 4D World Tour show and his response was 
> “why would you want to do that?” And then he proceeded to explain that to 
> implement a feature like that would require many hours of engineering time, 
> and QA time and then it would have to be maintained into the future. 
> 
> So he said are no plans for a “project folder back to a single .4DB file” 
> feature. Only way to have the happen is to convince 4D it is a needed and 
> necessary feature. 

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

[Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech]

Well, JPR's as always makes a good response! But, I still need to fully 
understand exactly why 4D is not eliminating the interpreted structure binary 
.4DB file completely at this time? Maybe 4D plan to do so eventually? Was this 
question asked at the last tour? If we are given the Project feature then we 
should be all in and have no option but to embrace it and source code repos 
such as Git, since, pretty much every other programming language is doing it 
this way.

Regards,
 
Narinder Chandi,
ToolBox Systems Ltd.
 
I am available for new consulting opportunities…
http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/ANN-4D-Developer-Available-td5765443.html
-- 

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> on behalf of 4D Tech Mailing List 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Reply-To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Date: Thursday, 10 October 2019 at 23:38
To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Tim Nevels 
Subject: Re: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

On Oct 10, 2019, at 4:44 PM, Narinder Chandi wrote:

> Yes, you're correct, currently the move from binary to Project format is 
one way, whether this will become bi-directional I don't know. It is still 
possible to compile back to a single binary though so the step to go from 
Project to interpreted structure binary should surely be possible??

This was asked to JPR at the last 4D World Tour show and his response was 
“why would you want to do that?” And then he proceeded to explain that to 
implement a feature like that would require many hours of engineering time, and 
QA time and then it would have to be maintained into the future. 

So he said are no plans for a “project folder back to a single .4DB file” 
feature. Only way to have the happen is to convince 4D it is a needed and 
necessary feature. 

Tim

*
Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com
*

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**


**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Oct 10, 2019, at 4:44 PM, Narinder Chandi wrote:

> Yes, you're correct, currently the move from binary to Project format is one 
> way, whether this will become bi-directional I don't know. It is still 
> possible to compile back to a single binary though so the step to go from 
> Project to interpreted structure binary should surely be possible??

This was asked to JPR at the last 4D World Tour show and his response was “why 
would you want to do that?” And then he proceeded to explain that to implement 
a feature like that would require many hours of engineering time, and QA time 
and then it would have to be maintained into the future. 

So he said are no plans for a “project folder back to a single .4DB file” 
feature. Only way to have the happen is to convince 4D it is a needed and 
necessary feature. 

Tim

*
Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com
*

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D and FTP - AGAIN

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

for future reference, could you be more specific about this statement:

> 2019/10/10 19:07、Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
> There is some kind of timeout/time limit when one is debugging 
> "forward/backward/left/right” without leaving the debugger or even restart 4D…

are you talking about the callback system, are you tracing the callback method?
(because, the plugin command it self is atomic in a 4D method, by design, there 
is no concept of session)

there are various timeout settings in curl which you can control with the 
plugin.
also, I do not understand how one would debug "forward/backward/left/right"

often time in technical discussion (and especially if the other party is a 
non-native English speaker like me...)
it would be greatly appreciated if you could describe an issue using terms that 
are easier to understand...

but I love your lively comments, learning every day, just a shame I can not 
always fully comprehend.



**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Option click close box

[Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech]

Chip,

I don’t know what an “option close” would look like: there’s no such event, and 
anyway it doesn’t matter to a particular window if it’s being told to close 
because every window is closing or because it alone is closing.

They’re all in different processes; I’m still in “one process, one window” 
mode. I expect I’ll grow up one day, but not yet.

I’ll do some more digging and put together a simple DB which demonstrates 
exactly what happens. 



Miyako,

Yes, I think Keith was writing about ordinary clicks.

When I’ve written my pared-down database, I’ll try to open a case. Or do I have 
to be a partner?

Jeremy


> On 10 Oct 2019, at 22:59, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote:
> 
> Jeremy,
> does 4D post an option close to each window?
> 
> you could place an inis button on the form to catch it -
> you should not have to, but... it might stop the problem.
> 
> Are all the windows in the same process? or different processes?
> 
> Chip


> On 10 Oct 2019, at 23:01, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I am a bit confused; so what Keith posted was just about regular (non-option) 
> clicks..?
> 
> as I posted earlier, I can not say if this is a bug or not.
> we can not find a 4D documentation that says explicitly that option-click 
> shall not invoke the event,
> your argument makes sense; maybe time to open a case with local tech support?
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Option click close box

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

I am a bit confused; so what Keith posted was just about regular (non-option) 
clicks..?

as I posted earlier, I can not say if this is a bug or not.
we can not find a 4D documentation that says explicitly that option-click shall 
not invoke the event,
your argument makes sense; maybe time to open a case with local tech support?

> 2019/10/11 6:51、Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
>
> What does bother me is the closing of input windows with no chance for the 
> user to intervene and say “hang on - I made those changes and I don’t want 
> you to throw them away without asking me”. That doesn’t seem right.




**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Option click close box

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

Jeremy,
does 4D post an option close to each window?

you could place an inis button on the form to catch it -
you should not have to, but... it might stop the problem.

Are all the windows in the same process? or different processes?

Chip

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 22:51:45 +0100, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Miyako,
> 
> In all honesty, I don’t really care about the splash screen; it 
> belongs to 4D and 4D can make it behave as it wishes; if I don’t 
> like it, I needn’t use the splash screen mechanism at all and, as 
> Keith observes, it’s not a tragedy if it closes. I mentioned it only 
> for completeness.
> 
> What does bother me is the closing of input windows with no chance 
> for the user to intervene and say “hang on - I made those changes 
> and I don’t want you to throw them away without asking me”. That 
> doesn’t seem right.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
>> On 10 Oct 2019, at 22:44, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> thank you for sharing,
>> 
>> so if that is the case, I suppose we can say that...
>> 
>> the splash screen is not a dialog; On Close Box is not applicable by 
>> default.
>> to prevent it from closing, you could use DIALOG in the application 
>> process.
>> that said, starting a DIALOG (event loop) in On Startup is a very bad idea.
>> you are never finished booting the app.
>> 
>>> 2019/10/09 7:51、kculotta via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
>>> 
>>> All true what you said, with some observations (17.3):
>>> 
>>> If On Close Box is checked, an input window gets the event, but 
>>> does not close.  An output window did close.
>>> If not checked an input window will close, revealing the output 
>>> window it was opened from (when DIALOG was called without OPEN 
>>> WINDOW being called first).
>>> The windows were created with "DIALOG(outputForm)".
>>> 
>>> I saw the application window close, but was able to 
>>> option-command-E to get the Explorer.
> 
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **
We have done so much, with so little, for so long;
We are now qualified to anything with nothing 
  - unknown
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: INNO Installer Script

[John J Foster via 4D_Tech]

Hi Jim,

I found it and have been trying to get it to work. So far.

But glad I am in the right area.

Thanks for the help Jim.

John…



> You want to look at the [Icons] section.
> The syntax is something like:
> 
> Name: "shortcut name"; Filename: "path to file or folder"
> 
> Name: "{app}\Run Peregrine"; Filename: {app}\Peregrine\Peregrine.exe"
> 
> {app} is the built in reference "C:\Peregrine_Windows\"
> It is set by the line:
> DefaultDirName={sd}\Peregrine_Windows\
> {sd} is the system disk
> 
>   or a shortcut on the Start menu (where ever that is in Windows 10!)
> Name: "{userstartmenu}\Run Peregrine"; Filename:
> {app}\Peregrine\Peregrine.exe"
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Jim
> 
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Option click close box

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

thank you for sharing,

so if that is the case, I suppose we can say that...

the splash screen is not a dialog; On Close Box is not applicable by default.
to prevent it from closing, you could use DIALOG in the application process.
that said, starting a DIALOG (event loop) in On Startup is a very bad idea.
you are never finished booting the app.

> 2019/10/09 7:51、kculotta via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
>
> All true what you said, with some observations (17.3):
>
> If On Close Box is checked, an input window gets the event, but does not 
> close.  An output window did close.
> If not checked an input window will close, revealing the output window it was 
> opened from (when DIALOG was called without OPEN WINDOW being called first).
> The windows were created with "DIALOG(outputForm)".
>
> I saw the application window close, but was able to option-command-E to get 
> the Explorer.




**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: INNO Installer Script

[Jim Hays via 4D_Tech]

You want to look at the [Icons] section.
The syntax is something like:

Name: "shortcut name"; Filename: "path to file or folder"

Name: "{app}\Run Peregrine"; Filename: {app}\Peregrine\Peregrine.exe"

{app} is the built in reference "C:\Peregrine_Windows\"
It is set by the line:
DefaultDirName={sd}\Peregrine_Windows\
{sd} is the system disk

  or a shortcut on the Start menu (where ever that is in Windows 10!)
Name: "{userstartmenu}\Run Peregrine"; Filename:
{app}\Peregrine\Peregrine.exe"

HTH,

Jim

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 3:16 PM John J Foster via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> 4D Volume App/Windows 10 Pro/INNO Installer
>
> I am getting closer too getting the INNO Setup script working. But…
>
> I have as issue where I’d like to an alias of the structure outside the
> program folder so the user doesn’t have to look inside and do it.
>
> For example if I have a built volume app named “Peregrine”. Let’s say I’m
> storing the program and data in the C drive as:
>
> C:\Peregrine_Windows
> C:\Peregrine_Windows/Peregrine/… all the files
> C:\Peregrine_Windows/Peregrine Data/… the three data files
>
> I will get a folder named “Peregrine” with all the things 4D needs to run
> this as an application. Inside the folder is the program file
> “Peregrine.exe” which is what I’d like Inno Setup to create an alias to
> outside of the Peregrine folder within the Peregrine_Windows folder.
>
> Is that possible?
>
> Examples?
>
> Thanks,
> John…
>
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: Re: 4D v17r4 Windows Print To PDF ignoring PAGE SETUP

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

My only suggestion here is to ensure any Print Options calls are made after Set 
Printer, as the latter can mess up options set before that command.
HTH, Keith


> On 11/10/2019, at 2:20 am, Piotr Chabot Stadhouders wrote:
> ...
> Did you find a solution for this?
> I am working on a Windows 10 64-bit machine and have the same problem
> Whatever I do to change the paper size:
> SET PRINT OPTION(Paper option;1130;820)
> SET PRINT OPTION(Paper option;"A3")
> 
> The output to Windows Print To PDF doesn’t respect any of my settings
...
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: "4d.app would like to receive keystrokes from any application"

[Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech]

that's the version i'm messing with

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 4:54 PM Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hmm…I didn’t get that request with 4D 17.3 in Catalina.
>
> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
> On Oct 10, 2019, 10:52 AM -1000, Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com>, wrote:
> Catalina
> That seems like a "No, duh", but it also seems weird that it would be set
> that way.
>
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Converting 4D Server v11 to v17

[Peter.Burgess via 4D_Tech]

That is very encouraging, Narinder.
As mentioned I don't have subtables, so all is good there, and there may be
a few PICTs but none, I think, that are critical. Trialling should prove or
disprove that.
And I don't use 4D Write so that's another plus.
Your input truly appreciated. :)

Regards,
Pete



4D Tech mailing list wrote
> In my experience 4D conversions have generally been fairly smooth, and
> that's going back many versions. When I did a 4D v11 to v15 conversion
> (Mac server and clients) a few years ago there were no significant issues
> that I recall. I've recently completed a conversion of that same database
> from v15 to v17 the task was bigger in that we wanted to deal with the
> Subtables issue which we ignored in the previous conversion, and also
> prepare for Object Notation support. In my case, the database had
> widespread usage of the dot character in variables, method names, table
> and form names. There were nearly 6000 warnings to address. It was a
> painful task but I managed it.
> 
> Other issues that most conversions will have is converting PICTs to PNG,
> JPG etc as PICT is now deprecated but it's not difficult. Also, a number
> of commands are obsoleted and they need to be addressed, either by removal
> or replacement of more modern equivalents.
> 
> The biggest issues with any conversion in my experience is the use of 4D
> Plugins, especially third party ones that may no longer supported. With
> 4D, 4D Write is now replaced with 4D Write Pro and from what I have read
> it requires a complete re-write if you use that plugin.
> 
> I'm sure there are some issues that I forget to mention, but I would say
> not to be frightened to go for it. Assess the scope of conversion work
> needed and plan from there.
> 
> Regards,
>  
> Narinder Chandi,
> ToolBox Systems Ltd.
>  





--
Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

[Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech]

Tom,

Yes, you're correct, currently the move from binary to Project format is one 
way, whether this will become bi-directional I don't know. It is still possible 
to compile back to a single binary though so the step to go from Project to 
interpreted structure binary should surely be possible??

Yes, Branching is a core concept of working with Git.

I think what each of your developers need to do is to Checkout a Git repo 
Feature Branch of Master and export their changes into that. Then, they Push 
that Feature Branch up to Master and make a Pull request into Master. Once 
approved then the Feature Branch is merged into Master. Other developers would 
do the same. Then, each developer Pulls Master to update their local Checked 
out copy of Master. They can Diff that against their previous Feature Branch 
which will give them a list of all the changes that the _other_ developers have 
made and merged into Master and synch their structure up.

I think that's it above! The ultimate benefit of all that is that your devs are 
only ever moving around Diffs, not the whole structure export.

Regards,
 
Narinder Chandi,
ToolBox Systems Ltd.
 
I am available for new consulting opportunities…
http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/ANN-4D-Developer-Available-td5765443.html
-- 

-Original Message-
From: Tom Benedict 
Date: Thursday, 10 October 2019 at 21:22
To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Narinder Chandi <4dtechmailingl...@toolbox.uk.com>
Subject: Re: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

Thanks for your response Narinder,

>ditch the 4D binary based structure file and use v17's 4D Project format

Indeed, that is an attractive option, although it requires 17R5 or higher. 
Once it’s out of beta I may consider it. I’ve heard that once a structure is 
moved to Project Mode, there’s no way to get it out of Project Mode. I don’t 
really know what that means, but that’s one of the reasons I haven’t tried it 
yet.

>Some variation of Gitflow has been used at every client I've worked for 
over the last few years (in a PHP context). I think what you describe below 
loosely maps to Gitflow so take a look at that and see if this is the case. 
Briefly, each of your developers creates their own Feature branch from the 
Master branch on Git, work on it and then merge back into Master (there's a bit 
more to the process but I'm just trying to simplify).

This is great guidance. I wasn’t sure whether each developer would be a 
separate branch or not.

Right now my biggest challenge is logistical. The structure export consists 
of over 55,000 files. Running that every few days and uploading to Git takes 
hours. There’s gotta be a more efficient way.

I’ll check out Gitflow and see whether it can help me.

Thanks again,

Tom Benedict

> On Oct 10, 2019, at 13:12, Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Tom,
> 
> What version of 4D are you using?
> 
> It seems to me that the way forward for team development (or solo for 
that matter) will be to ditch the 4D binary based structure file and use v17's 
4D Project format stored that in a Git repo, even though it's still Beta it 
should be finalised soon enough. IMO, this is going to be a revolutionary 
change for managing 4D code and supporting assets.
> 
> The most popular Git branching model is Gitflow:
> https://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/
> 
> Some variation of Gitflow has been used at every client I've worked for 
over the last few years (in a PHP context). I think what you describe below 
loosely maps to Gitflow so take a look at that and see if this is the case. 
Briefly, each of your developers creates their own Feature branch from the 
Master branch on Git, work on it and then merge back into Master (there's a bit 
more to the process but I'm just trying to simplify).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Narinder Chandi,
> ToolBox Systems Ltd.
> 
> I am available for new consulting opportunities…
> http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/ANN-4D-Developer-Available-td5765443.html
> -- 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> on behalf of 4D Tech Mailing 
List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Reply-To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Date: Thursday, 10 October 2019 at 18:42
> To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Tom Benedict 
> Subject: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development
> 
>In my current environment, each developer works on a separate copy of 
a “Master" 4D structure. Periodically each developer runs the "Export structure 
file” command to export everything (methods, forms etc) to local disk. Then 
they compare those files using a diff tool (Examdiff in our case) against a 
folder full of files exported from the "master” copy of the 4D structure. The 
diff 

"4d.app would like to receive keystrokes from any application"

[Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech]

Catalina
That seems like a "No, duh", but it also seems weird that it would be set
that way.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: post-icon conversion

[Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech]

@patrick,
might it be worth it to wait until we can manipulate project files?  I see
that project files auto-export the image library.  Since we would have
plain text files in a project, wouldn't I then be able to iterate via
 and update everything?

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 10:58 AM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> good idea.  they are mostly sequential because i was using mostly the 4d
> stock button icons.
>
> On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 10:43 AM Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
>> no yo can't use a wild card...
>> but
>> if your library IDs are in sequential (or nearly) order you might be
>> able to search for say:
>> -12
>> to cover 120-129, 1200-1299, 12000-12999, etc
>>
>> On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 10:31:39 -0400, Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech wrote:
>> > can i use wildcards with that search?  you'd have to run it for every
>> icon
>> > id.
>> > after going through all these forms, it seems like 60% are broken this
>> way,
>> > but the others are not.  it also seems like the newer forms are ok, but
>> the
>> > older ones are the ones that have the issue.  perhaps this was a v2/v3
>> > thing?
>> > dang i wrote this a really long long time ago.
>> > **
>> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>> > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>> > Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
>> > **
>> ---
>> Gas is for washing parts
>> Alcohol is for drinkin'
>> Nitromethane is for racing
>> **
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
>> **
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

[Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech]

Thanks for your response Narinder,

>ditch the 4D binary based structure file and use v17's 4D Project format

Indeed, that is an attractive option, although it requires 17R5 or higher. Once 
it’s out of beta I may consider it. I’ve heard that once a structure is moved 
to Project Mode, there’s no way to get it out of Project Mode. I don’t really 
know what that means, but that’s one of the reasons I haven’t tried it yet.

>Some variation of Gitflow has been used at every client I've worked for over 
>the last few years (in a PHP context). I think what you describe below loosely 
>maps to Gitflow so take a look at that and see if this is the case. Briefly, 
>each of your developers creates their own Feature branch from the Master 
>branch on Git, work on it and then merge back into Master (there's a bit more 
>to the process but I'm just trying to simplify).

This is great guidance. I wasn’t sure whether each developer would be a 
separate branch or not.

Right now my biggest challenge is logistical. The structure export consists of 
over 55,000 files. Running that every few days and uploading to Git takes 
hours. There’s gotta be a more efficient way.

I’ll check out Gitflow and see whether it can help me.

Thanks again,

Tom Benedict

> On Oct 10, 2019, at 13:12, Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Tom,
> 
> What version of 4D are you using?
> 
> It seems to me that the way forward for team development (or solo for that 
> matter) will be to ditch the 4D binary based structure file and use v17's 4D 
> Project format stored that in a Git repo, even though it's still Beta it 
> should be finalised soon enough. IMO, this is going to be a revolutionary 
> change for managing 4D code and supporting assets.
> 
> The most popular Git branching model is Gitflow:
> https://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/
> 
> Some variation of Gitflow has been used at every client I've worked for over 
> the last few years (in a PHP context). I think what you describe below 
> loosely maps to Gitflow so take a look at that and see if this is the case. 
> Briefly, each of your developers creates their own Feature branch from the 
> Master branch on Git, work on it and then merge back into Master (there's a 
> bit more to the process but I'm just trying to simplify).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Narinder Chandi,
> ToolBox Systems Ltd.
> 
> I am available for new consulting opportunities…
> http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/ANN-4D-Developer-Available-td5765443.html
> -- 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> on behalf of 4D Tech Mailing 
> List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Reply-To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Date: Thursday, 10 October 2019 at 18:42
> To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Tom Benedict 
> Subject: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development
> 
>In my current environment, each developer works on a separate copy of a 
> “Master" 4D structure. Periodically each developer runs the "Export structure 
> file” command to export everything (methods, forms etc) to local disk. Then 
> they compare those files using a diff tool (Examdiff in our case) against a 
> folder full of files exported from the "master” copy of the 4D structure. The 
> diff tool shows us what methods/forms/etc are different. The developer then 
> uses that list as a guide and, with both the local 4D structure open and the 
> “master” 4D structure open, copy/pastes or ‘moves’ the edits from local to 
> master.
> 
>We would like to move this process to Github. I’ve tried, but have not 
> been able to map the Git concepts to my existing process. Is anyone using 
> Github with 4D in this way? If so, could you describe your workflow?
> 
>BTW, I’ve read the Tech Note about 4D on Github, but it looks like it is 
> focused on using Project Mod. I also read Thomas Maul’s post 
>  about his 
> component which will commit methods to Github. I’m also aware of Lutz 
> Epperlein’s use of VC Framework. None of those matches my current workflow.
> 
>Thanks for any help.
> 
>Tom Benedict
>**
>4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
>**
> 
> 
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  

Re: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

[Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech]

Tom,

What version of 4D are you using?

It seems to me that the way forward for team development (or solo for that 
matter) will be to ditch the 4D binary based structure file and use v17's 4D 
Project format stored that in a Git repo, even though it's still Beta it should 
be finalised soon enough. IMO, this is going to be a revolutionary change for 
managing 4D code and supporting assets.

The most popular Git branching model is Gitflow:
https://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/

Some variation of Gitflow has been used at every client I've worked for over 
the last few years (in a PHP context). I think what you describe below loosely 
maps to Gitflow so take a look at that and see if this is the case. Briefly, 
each of your developers creates their own Feature branch from the Master branch 
on Git, work on it and then merge back into Master (there's a bit more to the 
process but I'm just trying to simplify).

Regards,
 
Narinder Chandi,
ToolBox Systems Ltd.
 
I am available for new consulting opportunities…
http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/ANN-4D-Developer-Available-td5765443.html
-- 

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> on behalf of 4D Tech Mailing List 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Reply-To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Date: Thursday, 10 October 2019 at 18:42
To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Tom Benedict 
Subject: Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

In my current environment, each developer works on a separate copy of a 
“Master" 4D structure. Periodically each developer runs the "Export structure 
file” command to export everything (methods, forms etc) to local disk. Then 
they compare those files using a diff tool (Examdiff in our case) against a 
folder full of files exported from the "master” copy of the 4D structure. The 
diff tool shows us what methods/forms/etc are different. The developer then 
uses that list as a guide and, with both the local 4D structure open and the 
“master” 4D structure open, copy/pastes or ‘moves’ the edits from local to 
master.

We would like to move this process to Github. I’ve tried, but have not been 
able to map the Git concepts to my existing process. Is anyone using Github 
with 4D in this way? If so, could you describe your workflow?

BTW, I’ve read the Tech Note about 4D on Github, but it looks like it is 
focused on using Project Mod. I also read Thomas Maul’s post 
 about his 
component which will commit methods to Github. I’m also aware of Lutz 
Epperlein’s use of VC Framework. None of those matches my current workflow.

Thanks for any help.

Tom Benedict
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**


**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: Converting 4D Server v11 to v17

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I suggest v15 because setting transparency when doing PICT conversion 
is not available in v13

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 19:58:24 +, Peter BURGESS wrote:
> Thank you Chip.
> The suggestion, from other users and from my local 4D rep in 
> Australia, is for a 2-step conversion from v11 to v13, then to v17. 
> So, similar to your advice.
> I will go that direction, and keep a watch out for PICT files.
> 
> Regards,
> Pete
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> 
> Sent: Friday, 11 October 2019 05:10 AM
> 
> I have done a conversion from v13 - v16, as an experiment. I had no 
> problems.
> I did not run this for my users.
> I did some, but not extensive testing.
> 
> as mentioned elsewhere there are a few things that I believe you can 
> not resolve without a 32 bit version of 4D (PICTs) from inside 4D, and 
> v17 is 64 bit only on windows (I believe).
> SO you may want/need to go to v15 to resolve the PICT issue before the 
> final conversion to v17.
> 
> If I am mistaken about the 32 bit/64bit part, or you are *SURE* you 
> have no PICTs, then you should be able to do the conversion in one step.
> 
> 
We have done so much, with so little, for so long;
We are now qualified to anything with nothing 
  - unknown
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: Converting 4D Server v11 to v17

[Peter BURGESS via 4D_Tech]

Thanks Tom, that is just the sort of news I was hoping for. Your input is 
appreciated.

Regards,
Pete

-Original Message-
From: Tom Benedict  
Sent: Friday, 11 October 2019 05:39 AM

>v17 is 64 bit only on windows (I believe).

On windows there are 32bit versions of v17 up through v17R4. v17R5 is the first 
64bit only. 

>while v17 has a different architecture and is primarily object orientated, it 
>will still accept and interpret v11 style language. Is this truly the case?

Yes, you can still happily program in 4D like you always have. Use of ORDA is 
not mandatory. You can do both in the same method. It’s not an "either/or" 
situation.

Tom Benedict

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: Converting 4D Server v11 to v17

[Peter BURGESS via 4D_Tech]

Thank you Chip.
The suggestion, from other users and from my local 4D rep in Australia, is for 
a 2-step conversion from v11 to v13, then to v17. So, similar to your advice.
I will go that direction, and keep a watch out for PICT files.

Regards,
Pete

-Original Message-
From: Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> 
Sent: Friday, 11 October 2019 05:10 AM

I have done a conversion from v13 - v16, as an experiment. I had no 
problems.
I did not run this for my users.
I did some, but not extensive testing.

as mentioned elsewhere there are a few things that I believe you can 
not resolve without a 32 bit version of 4D (PICTs) from inside 4D, and 
v17 is 64 bit only on windows (I believe).
SO you may want/need to go to v15 to resolve the PICT issue before the 
final conversion to v17.

If I am mistaken about the 32 bit/64bit part, or you are *SURE* you 
have no PICTs, then you should be able to do the conversion in one step.

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

INNO Installer Script

[John J Foster via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

4D Volume App/Windows 10 Pro/INNO Installer

I am getting closer too getting the INNO Setup script working. But…

I have as issue where I’d like to an alias of the structure outside the program 
folder so the user doesn’t have to look inside and do it.

For example if I have a built volume app named “Peregrine”. Let’s say I’m 
storing the program and data in the C drive as:

C:\Peregrine_Windows
C:\Peregrine_Windows/Peregrine/… all the files
C:\Peregrine_Windows/Peregrine Data/… the three data files

I will get a folder named “Peregrine” with all the things 4D needs to run this 
as an application. Inside the folder is the program file “Peregrine.exe” which 
is what I’d like Inno Setup to create an alias to outside of the Peregrine 
folder within the Peregrine_Windows folder.

Is that possible?

Examples?

Thanks,
John…


**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Hey Tim,

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:43 AM Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> So what you are saying is that if you are deploying 4D Server in a VM
> there is not need to try and use preemptive mode. You get no benefit from
> doing that. It’s a waste of time?

That's what I got. Thomas showed a demo app he wrote deployed on AWS or the
like and using a lot of cores (32?). But it did not improve the overall
processing time. The reason being, as I understand it, the whole benefit of
preemptive mode is to allow 4D to assign a process to a core. But in the
case of a VM the actual, physical cores are managed by the VM. It really
couldn't be otherwise and support all the cool stuff that makes the VM
attractive.

I don't know that makes preemptive a waste of time but it does mean you
need to think about where your db will be running to decide if it's worth
the effort to implement it.

On the other hand this means that in a VM environment CALL WORKER is pretty
much as useful and a lot less hassle.

It would be interesting to know if preemptive is something that can be
called for a local process on a client machine. Now _that_ would be pretty
handy. Ask JPR when you chat with him.

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

What can be said, can be said clearly,
and what you can’t say, you should shut up about

*Wittgenstein and the Computer *
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Dennis, Neil via 4D_Tech]

> The other thing about VM vs metal is the whole pre-emptive process 
> benefit basically goes away.

... can go away...

If you have a physical machine with 32 cores and your VM run 8 shared with 4 
other VMs running 8 cores, then you may really get 8 cores. If you run 32 VMs 
all wanting 8 virtual, then of course you are not getting it. I think the point 
was that virtual cores do not always mean physical cores. It will depend on the 
number of physical resources allocated to the VM.

Neil








Privacy Disclaimer: This message contains confidential information and is 
intended only for the named addressee. If you are not the named addressee you 
should not disseminate, distribute or copy this email. Please delete this email 
from your system and notify the sender immediately by replying to this email.  
If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, 
copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this 
information is strictly prohibited.

The Alternative Investments division of UMB Fund Services provides a full range 
of services to hedge funds, funds of funds and private equity funds.  Any tax 
advice in this communication is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, by 
a client or any other person or entity for the purpose of (a) avoiding 
penalties that may be imposed on any taxpayer or (b) promoting, marketing, or 
recommending to another party any matter addressed herein.
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Oct 10, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Kirk Brooks wrote:

> The other thing about VM vs metal is the whole pre-emptive process
> benefit basically goes away. Thomas Maul has shown this at the Summit.
> Having n+ virtual cores doesn't do anything to actually increase processing
> speed because the VM is running on whatever is allocated to it.
> Theoretically you could have a VM with 4 cores running an instance with 32
> cores. So preemptive threading is looking to be mainly a benefit for
> companies that run their own hardware and for desktop apps.

I was not aware of this. So what you are saying is that if you are deploying 4D 
Server in a VM there is not need to try and use preemptive mode. You get no 
benefit from doing that. It’s a waste of time? Sounds like a giant bummer. Hope 
you are wrong. I’ll put in the secret distress call code “JPR" in this message 
and see if JPR catches this and knows anything about this and can comment. 

If not, I’m going to make it a point to ask one of the Laurents about this at 
4D Summit so I’m clear on when you get preemptive benefits. Do you get any when 
running 4D Server or 4D Client in a VM? 

As you know I love running 4D Server in a VM environment that is properly 
configured on great hardware. Performance is great for 4D Server and for 4D 
Client instances. And when you need more disk space you can get it in a few 
minutes by just altering some VM parameters. Same for adding more RAM, just 
takes a few minutes and a reboot. 

And since the disks are all allocated from a SAN that is RAID “whatever” you 
don’t have to worry about a disk failure and losing data. RAID will protect you 
from that. And putting the .4dd on a separate physical disk than the .journal 
file can’t be done and is not a consideration for providing additional 
protection from hardware failure. 

The last part of fault tolerance and recover from failures is to implement 
“Volume Shadow Copy” and get a snapshot of the machine. I have another client 
that does this every hour. So if the VM goes completely bad you can restore it 
back to what it was up to 1 hour ago. That brings drive “C:\” back to where it 
was. And if your data file is on “D:\” it is stored on the SAN “hard drives” so 
it is suppose be accurate and good up to the last operation. This is what I am 
told. 

That last thing I tell myself when running 4D in a VM environment is that 
server hardware failure and disaster recover is not longer my problem. It’s the 
IT department’s problem. I’m just providing a 4D Server application that runs 
on their “machine”. I didn’t set up or configure the “machine”. I didn’t 
implement the backup plan or strategy. Everything depends on IT doing it right 
and providing an environment that can recover from hardware failures. 

In the past I was very involved with server hardware setup and configuration 
and backups, and so this was another of my “worries” or considerations. Did we 
buy enough RAM. Did we get enough hard drive space and are we using the drives 
the right way. Is the backup software running and working. And if there was a 
problem or failure I was the first one called to help fix it. That’s all gone 
when 4D Server is running in a VM. It’s all someone else’s problem. All I have 
to say is “when you get the VM restored and online again, let me know. I’ll 
check 4D Server and see if we lost any data.” I like it that way. 

Tim

*
Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com
*

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Using Github to Manage Distributed Development

[Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech]

In my current environment, each developer works on a separate copy of a 
“Master" 4D structure. Periodically each developer runs the "Export structure 
file” command to export everything (methods, forms etc) to local disk. Then 
they compare those files using a diff tool (Examdiff in our case) against a 
folder full of files exported from the "master” copy of the 4D structure. The 
diff tool shows us what methods/forms/etc are different. The developer then 
uses that list as a guide and, with both the local 4D structure open and the 
“master” 4D structure open, copy/pastes or ‘moves’ the edits from local to 
master.

We would like to move this process to Github. I’ve tried, but have not been 
able to map the Git concepts to my existing process. Is anyone using Github 
with 4D in this way? If so, could you describe your workflow?

BTW, I’ve read the Tech Note about 4D on Github, but it looks like it is 
focused on using Project Mod. I also read Thomas Maul’s post 
 about his 
component which will commit methods to Github. I’m also aware of Lutz 
Epperlein’s use of VC Framework. None of those matches my current workflow.

Thanks for any help.

Tom Benedict
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Robb Detlefs via 4D_Tech]

We host both the Server and the Client in the cloud. End users connect into the 
"client cloud" using Remote Desktop.

Robb


--
Robb Detlefs | Director, West Coast Operations & Strategic Initiatives
robb.detl...@gallerysystems.com | 
510.652.8950 x233 or 646.733.2239 x233
GallerySystems | www.gallerysystems.com
3200 College Ave. Suite 6; Berkeley, CA 94705




On Oct 10, 2019, at 10:02 AM, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

EXTERNAL: Do not click links or open attachments if you do not recognize the 
sender.

I don't see how "cloud" hosting can be the future of 4D when LAN execution is 
great but WAN execution is horribly slow for the same application. Yes, you can 
rewrite in various ways (harder to write, understand, and maintain) but it is 
not an easy task.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


On Oct 10, 2019, at 6:24 AM, Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

CONCLUSON
I now realise that the “WAN” / “LAN” distinction is disappearing. He said the 
only reason the “cloud” solution wasn’t hosted off-site was that they had 
measured the bandwidth that the customer used and calculated that the cost 
would be astronomical if it was on AWS or something like that, but in all other 
respects it was a cloud solution.

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.4d.com/archives.html__;!09EJrJkydGw!Xytu_B2U0mQcyAmuZQJ4z6tA7e_ofPTL3OqMZxKUuOz4k9HZHFqY7PGYVS6H8-KlhuLYcF6BBQ$
Options: 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech__;!09EJrJkydGw!Xytu_B2U0mQcyAmuZQJ4z6tA7e_ofPTL3OqMZxKUuOz4k9HZHFqY7PGYVS6H8-KlhuLpyeegqA$
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

I don't see how "cloud" hosting can be the future of 4D when LAN execution is 
great but WAN execution is horribly slow for the same application. Yes, you can 
rewrite in various ways (harder to write, understand, and maintain) but it is 
not an easy task.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


> On Oct 10, 2019, at 6:24 AM, Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> CONCLUSON
> I now realise that the “WAN” / “LAN” distinction is disappearing. He said the 
> only reason the “cloud” solution wasn’t hosted off-site was that they had 
> measured the bandwidth that the customer used and calculated that the cost 
> would be astronomical if it was on AWS or something like that, but in all 
> other respects it was a cloud solution.

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Converting 4D Server v11 to v17

[Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech]

>v17 is 64 bit only on windows (I believe).

On windows there are 32bit versions of v17 up through v17R4. v17R5 is the first 
64bit only. 

>while v17 has a different architecture and is primarily object orientated, it 
>will still accept and interpret v11 style language. Is this truly the case?

Yes, you can still happily program in 4D like you always have. Use of ORDA is 
not mandatory. You can do both in the same method. It’s not an "either/or" 
situation.

Tom Benedict

> On Oct 10, 2019, at 09:09, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I have done a conversion from v13 - v16, as an experiment. I had no 
> problems.
> I did not run this for my users.
> I did some, but not extensive testing.
> 
> as mentioned elsewhere there are a few things that I believe you can 
> not resolve without a 32 bit version of 4D (PICTs) from inside 4D, and 
> v17 is 64 bit only on windows (I believe).
> SO you may want/need to go to v15 to resolve the PICT issue before the 
> final conversion to v17.
> 
> If I am mistaken about the 32 bit/64bit part, or you are *SURE* you 
> have no PICTs, then you should be able to do the conversion in one step.
> 
> On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 00:46:06 -0700 (MST), Peter.Burgess via 4D_Tech 
> wrote:
>> 
>> In the thread circa October 2018, the suggestion seemed to be that while v17
>> has a different architecture and is primarily object orientated, it will
>> still accept and interpret v11 style language. Is this truly the case?

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech]

>BTW - when using a 'cloud' service, depending on your personal/business 
> 
> outlook you might want to think about who has access to your data, and 
> what are they doing with it. This applies not just to colo and 4D but 
> to everything in 'the cloud’.

That’s why you encrypt your data. 
https://blog.4d.com/introduction-to-data-encryption-in-4d/ 


Tom Benedict
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech]

Indeed, that is the magic of VM and SAN. They can change the truck’s engine 
while its traveling down the road at 60mph. I was a skeptic until I saw it in 
action. Hot swapping of disks, memory, even ‘blades’ with CPUs on them happens 
transparently.

Keep in mind, though, that this is not done to save money. It might save money, 
but what it really does is make systems more reliable and faster to deploy.

Tom Benedict

> On Oct 10, 2019, at 09:12, Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> On 10 Oct 2019, at 16:58, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote:
>> 
>> that all is great until the hardware running the 4,382,619 VMs crashes
> 
> According to “the guy”, that’s all taken care of. Even if the “metal” melts 
> down, the VM’s just “seamlessly” migrate themselves onto other metal without 
> the users even knowing !

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech]

The key to getting good 4D performance out of VMs is dedicated resources. Once 
we got the VM ‘locked’ so it wouldn’t be ’smart’ about reallocating ‘idle’ 
resources (disk space, cache memory etc) to other VMs performance was very 
good. I don’t know much about VMs, but I’m surprised that you can’t dedicate 
cores to a specific VM like you can other resources.

Tom Benedict

> On Oct 10, 2019, at 08:23, Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for your post Kirk.
> 
> The guy I spoke to seemed to have it the other way around - the VM’s had 4-12 
> cores and the “metal” about 32.
> 
> He also was of the categorical opinion that the only way to really keep 
> applications “isolated” from each other (i.e. not bring everything else down 
> when they crashed) was to give each mission critical application or service 
> its own VM.
> 
> When I put to him “what about the natural O/S level multi-threading” he felt 
> there were too many vulnerabilities and mentioned especially the “crypto 
> viruses” and the Intel multi-threading bug. His approach was basically - if 
> your VM needs ore resources then we can simply allocated more. He wasn’t 
> really bothered by the idea of applications that were multi-threaded 
> internally because it’s all the one big bucket and if something inside the 
> bucket needs more power then just make the bucket bigger.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
>> On 10 Oct 2019, at 16:09, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The other thing about VM vs metal is the whole pre-emptive process
>> benefit basically goes away. Thomas Maul has shown this at the Summit.
>> Having n+ virtual cores doesn't do anything to actually increase processing
>> speed because the VM is running on whatever is allocated to it.
>> Theoretically you could have a VM with 4 cores running an instance with 32
>> cores

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

it is a repeating cycle.

change the paradigm to make more money.
Once everyone that needs one has a mainframe switch to desktops, now 
everyone has a desktop
switch to the 'cloud'.
eventually it will swing back to personal/business owned devices as 
data security becomes a (bigger) issue

BTW - when using a 'cloud' service, depending on your personal/business 
outlook you might want to think about who has access to your data, and 
what are they doing with it. This applies not just to colo and 4D but 
to everything in 'the cloud'.

What is Apple doing with your playlists and other purchasing habits 
(and what does that say about you), who else is looking at the files in 
your dropbox account, and nobody should have to wonder about what 
google, amazon, Facebook twitter etc are doing with all the information 
you maybe giving them.


Just because your are paranoid does NOT mean that they are not *really* 
out there...  :)

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 08:59:48 -0700, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech wrote:
> It is kind of
> interesting that we are moving back to the topology the industry started
> with - what's the difference between a 'main frame computer' and 'cloud
> computing'?
We have done so much, with so little, for so long;
We are now qualified to anything with nothing 
  - unknown
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech]

> On 10 Oct 2019, at 16:58, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote:
> 
> that all is great until the hardware running the 4,382,619 VMs crashes

According to “the guy”, that’s all taken care of. Even if the “metal” melts 
down, the VM’s just “seamlessly” migrate themselves onto other metal without 
the users even knowing !

Don’t ask me quite how that works but he kept saying it wasn't a problem.

-P

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Converting 4D Server v11 to v17

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I have done a conversion from v13 - v16, as an experiment. I had no 
problems.
I did not run this for my users.
I did some, but not extensive testing.

as mentioned elsewhere there are a few things that I believe you can 
not resolve without a 32 bit version of 4D (PICTs) from inside 4D, and 
v17 is 64 bit only on windows (I believe).
SO you may want/need to go to v15 to resolve the PICT issue before the 
final conversion to v17.

If I am mistaken about the 32 bit/64bit part, or you are *SURE* you 
have no PICTs, then you should be able to do the conversion in one step.

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 00:46:06 -0700 (MST), Peter.Burgess via 4D_Tech 
wrote:
> 
> In the thread circa October 2018, the suggestion seemed to be that while v17
> has a different architecture and is primarily object orientated, it will
> still accept and interpret v11 style language. Is this truly the case?
We have done so much, with so little, for so long;
We are now qualified to anything with nothing 
  - unknown
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Converting 4D Server v11 to v17

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

my biggest problem here was trying to find the PICTs that were static 
pictures, that as it turns out, 4D had placed for me. These came from a 
gradient background that 4D used as part of the Form Wizard for listing 
forms.

I let 4D create a bunch of these for me for tables which either had 
specialized listing forms which did not do well in the user 
environment, or which had no direct user interaction, such as (many 
many) linking tables.

Chip 
On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 16:52:10 +0100, Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech wrote:
> 
> Other issues that most conversions will have is converting PICTs to 
> PNG, JPG etc as PICT is now deprecated but it's not difficult.
We have done so much, with so little, for so long;
We are now qualified to anything with nothing 
  - unknown
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Peter,
I had a discussion with Tim Nevels on another channel about this last week
too. He's a big fan and maybe will weigh in here. I will not miss having to
make a trip to the colo to change an SSD that died. (Hint: mirrored SSDs so
you don't have to do that in the middle of the night.) It is kind of
interesting that we are moving back to the topology the industry started
with - what's the difference between a 'main frame computer' and 'cloud
computing'?

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 8:23 AM Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Thanks for your post Kirk.
>
> The guy I spoke to seemed to have it the other way around - the VM’s had
> 4-12 cores and the “metal” about 32.
>
> He also was of the categorical opinion that the only way to really keep
> applications “isolated” from each other (i.e. not bring everything else
> down when they crashed) was to give each mission critical application or
> service its own VM.
>
> When I put to him “what about the natural O/S level multi-threading” he
> felt there were too many vulnerabilities and mentioned especially the
> “crypto viruses” and the Intel multi-threading bug. His approach was
> basically - if your VM needs ore resources then we can simply allocated
> more. He wasn’t really bothered by the idea of applications that were
> multi-threaded internally because it’s all the one big bucket and if
> something inside the bucket needs more power then just make the bucket
> bigger.
>
> Peter
>
>
> > On 10 Oct 2019, at 16:09, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > The other thing about VM vs metal is the whole pre-emptive process
> > benefit basically goes away. Thomas Maul has shown this at the Summit.
> > Having n+ virtual cores doesn't do anything to actually increase
> processing
> > speed because the VM is running on whatever is allocated to it.
> > Theoretically you could have a VM with 4 cores running an instance with
> 32
> > cores
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **



-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

What can be said, can be said clearly,
and what you can’t say, you should shut up about

*Wittgenstein and the Computer *
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

that all is great until the hardware running the 4,382,619 VMs crashes
:/

Chip
On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 16:23:18 +0100, Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech wrote:
> 
> He also was of the categorical opinion that the only way to really 
> keep applications “isolated” from each other (i.e. not bring 
> everything else down when they crashed) was to give each mission 
> critical application or service its own VM.
We have done so much, with so little, for so long;
We are now qualified to anything with nothing 
  - unknown
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Converting 4D Server v11 to v17

[Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech]

In my experience 4D conversions have generally been fairly smooth, and that's 
going back many versions. When I did a 4D v11 to v15 conversion (Mac server and 
clients) a few years ago there were no significant issues that I recall. I've 
recently completed a conversion of that same database from v15 to v17 the task 
was bigger in that we wanted to deal with the Subtables issue which we ignored 
in the previous conversion, and also prepare for Object Notation support. In my 
case, the database had widespread usage of the dot character in variables, 
method names, table and form names. There were nearly 6000 warnings to address. 
It was a painful task but I managed it.

Other issues that most conversions will have is converting PICTs to PNG, JPG 
etc as PICT is now deprecated but it's not difficult. Also, a number of 
commands are obsoleted and they need to be addressed, either by removal or 
replacement of more modern equivalents.

The biggest issues with any conversion in my experience is the use of 4D 
Plugins, especially third party ones that may no longer supported. With 4D, 4D 
Write is now replaced with 4D Write Pro and from what I have read it requires a 
complete re-write if you use that plugin.

I'm sure there are some issues that I forget to mention, but I would say not to 
be frightened to go for it. Assess the scope of conversion work needed and plan 
from there.

Regards,
 
Narinder Chandi,
ToolBox Systems Ltd.
 
I am available for new consulting opportunities…
http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/ANN-4D-Developer-Available-td5765443.html
-- 


-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> on behalf of 4D Tech Mailing List 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Reply-To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Date: Tuesday, 8 October 2019 at 08:46
To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: "Peter.Burgess" 
Subject: Converting 4D Server v11 to v17

Hi all.
There was a small thread on this topic 12 months ago, overall the reaction
seemed to be positive, but given that time has passed and other people may
have tried a large 'jump' conversion such as this, I would be very
interested in their experiences.
In short we have a fairly large database, Windows platform, re-write not
feasible, reasonable design with no sub-tables (I say reasonable because it
has really only suffered from 2 primary developers and while they may not
have been highly skilled programmers at least were not reckless), and we are
moving to a Client base running Windows 10 PCs. We really need to upgrade,
and preferably to the very latest version, otherwise the risk of some
critical failure becomes unacceptable.
I would like to gauge how feasible and/or straightforward it would be, to
convert from 4D Server v11.9 to v17. Is it mostly just a matter of clicking
a button and letting 4D do its thing, or are there some serious pitfalls I
should watch out for?
In the thread circa October 2018, the suggestion seemed to be that while v17
has a different architecture and is primarily object orientated, it will
still accept and interpret v11 style language. Is this truly the case?

Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Pete



--
Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**


**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Option click close box

[kculotta via 4D_Tech]

All true what you said, with some observations (17.3):

If On Close Box is checked, an input window gets the event, but does not close. 
 An output window did close.
If not checked an input window will close, revealing the output window it was 
opened from (when DIALOG was called without OPEN WINDOW being called first).
The windows were created with "DIALOG(outputForm)".

I saw the application window close, but was able to option-command-E to get the 
Explorer.

Keith - CDI
(sorry if any resend, still working out an eMail address change)

> On Oct 8, 2019, at 4:57 PM, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Nobody?
> 
>> On 5 Oct 2019, at 12:56, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Is 4D’s response to option-click in a window’s close box documented? All 
>> windows close, which is as I’d expect, but they don’t seem to get sent an On 
>> close box event. Also, the default splash screen window closes and I drop 
>> out of application mode.
>> 
>> v17R5, Mac, running interpreted.
>> 
>> Jeremy
> 
> 
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Converting 4D Server v11 to v17

[Peter.Burgess via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
There was a small thread on this topic 12 months ago, overall the reaction
seemed to be positive, but given that time has passed and other people may
have tried a large 'jump' conversion such as this, I would be very
interested in their experiences.
In short we have a fairly large database, Windows platform, re-write not
feasible, reasonable design with no sub-tables (I say reasonable because it
has really only suffered from 2 primary developers and while they may not
have been highly skilled programmers at least were not reckless), and we are
moving to a Client base running Windows 10 PCs. We really need to upgrade,
and preferably to the very latest version, otherwise the risk of some
critical failure becomes unacceptable.
I would like to gauge how feasible and/or straightforward it would be, to
convert from 4D Server v11.9 to v17. Is it mostly just a matter of clicking
a button and letting 4D do its thing, or are there some serious pitfalls I
should watch out for?
In the thread circa October 2018, the suggestion seemed to be that while v17
has a different architecture and is primarily object orientated, it will
still accept and interpret v11 style language. Is this truly the case?

Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Pete



--
Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Windows Code Signing

[John J Foster via 4D_Tech]

Hi Armin,

Thank you once again for the guidance.

I have Visual Studio installed in my Parallels VM running Windows 10 Pro. So I 
likely have the sign tool.

Most helpful!!!

The devil (aka for me time consumption and mistakes) is always in the doing the 
first few times. It’s such a non graphical/visual process which works counter 
to the way my mind understands.

Appreciate,
John…


> John,
> 
> if you purchase the codesign certificate from comodo (don't forget the 15%
> coupon)
> 
> Then it took 2-3 days until you get it. First you have to verify your mail
> and phone.
> 
> After the certificate is ready and you download it, this gets stored inside
> your browser certificates named "Sectico Limited". You have to export/save
> the certificate from your browser certificates and gets a *.p12 file.
> 
> You have to double click the *.p12 (*= your choosen name) certificate and
> gets a certificate import wizzard on windows. Store it and export it twice
> from the windows certificate authorization 
> 1x as SHA1.pfx
> 1x as SHA256.pfx
> 
> To get signtool.exe I've installed visual studio from Microsoft (free
> version). You have to check whre the latest signtool.exe ist stored inside
> application files and modify the hardcode path in my sample code.
> 
> Within my sample code, modify the path name to the two certificates and
> replace the mypass with your choosen passwort during exporting the
> p12 certificate from your browser.
> 
> I sign the installers and the final compiled build 4D exe files (engine,
> Server, Client)
> 
> Happy testing
> 
> Armin

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech]

Thanks for your post Kirk.

The guy I spoke to seemed to have it the other way around - the VM’s had 4-12 
cores and the “metal” about 32.

He also was of the categorical opinion that the only way to really keep 
applications “isolated” from each other (i.e. not bring everything else down 
when they crashed) was to give each mission critical application or service its 
own VM.

When I put to him “what about the natural O/S level multi-threading” he felt 
there were too many vulnerabilities and mentioned especially the “crypto 
viruses” and the Intel multi-threading bug. His approach was basically - if 
your VM needs ore resources then we can simply allocated more. He wasn’t really 
bothered by the idea of applications that were multi-threaded internally 
because it’s all the one big bucket and if something inside the bucket needs 
more power then just make the bucket bigger.

Peter


> On 10 Oct 2019, at 16:09, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
> The other thing about VM vs metal is the whole pre-emptive process
> benefit basically goes away. Thomas Maul has shown this at the Summit.
> Having n+ virtual cores doesn't do anything to actually increase processing
> speed because the VM is running on whatever is allocated to it.
> Theoretically you could have a VM with 4 cores running an instance with 32
> cores

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Windows Code Signing

[John J Foster via 4D_Tech]

Hi Armin,

Thank you.

Yes, I am reviewing that one as well as the " TN "18-15_Application Signing 
with 4D” which cover both Macintosh and Windows.”

I am trying to baby step this process.

First get it the Inno Installer to work properly and then I will work on the 
code signing aspect.

Right now Inno Installer is installing myApp.exe without the rest of myApp 
folder and it’s contents.

Once I get this figured out I will have an windows Inno installer.

Appreciate,
John...


> On Oct 10, 2019, at 6:20 AM, 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com wrote:
> 
> From: ADeeg mailto:d...@node.de>>
> Subject: Re: Windows Code Signing
> Date: October 9, 2019 at 3:24:45 PM PDT
> To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
> 
> 
> There is a tech note for using signtool.exe
> 
> 
> https://kb.4d.com/assetid=78265 
> 4D Partners only
> 
> Regards Armin

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Peter,
I am in the process of moving a database from our own hardware to and AWS
instance. It's true that the most expensive part of setting it up, at this
point, is getting the appropriate amount of band width and throughput speed.

The other thing about VM vs metal is the whole pre-emptive process
benefit basically goes away. Thomas Maul has shown this at the Summit.
Having n+ virtual cores doesn't do anything to actually increase processing
speed because the VM is running on whatever is allocated to it.
Theoretically you could have a VM with 4 cores running an instance with 32
cores. So preemptive threading is looking to be mainly a benefit for
companies that run their own hardware and for desktop apps.

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 5:25 AM Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi !
>
> I just finished a 1.5 hour phonecall with a support services manager at
> the technical services company who supply one of my customers with all
> their hardware/software/maintenance services.
>
> He basically brought me up to date on “how things work” today which is
> essentially that everything to do with platforms is now virtualised to
> allow them to ‘tune’ resources to demand in realtime and provide seamless,
> no downtime backup. Basically, my 4d Server is now a “cloud service”
> without me even being aware of it, it’s just that the hardware involved
> happens to be located on the preises.
>
> In particular we discussed backup configurations for 4D server and this
> was interesting because, while I requested independent drives for logfile
> (“journal”) and datafile purposes, he essentially told me to just stick
> everything on the same drive because it was virtual anyway and had multiple
> redundancy protection via raid, 15-minute snapshotting etc. He offered to
> “create” a C: and a D: drive to make me feel better, but pointed out that
> they’re not much more independent than 2 folders would have been.
>
> CONCLUSON
> I now realise that the “WAN” / “LAN” distinction is disappearing. He said
> the only reason the “cloud” solution wasn’t hosted off-site was that they
> had measured the bandwidth that the customer used and calculated that the
> cost would be astronomical if it was on AWS or something like that, but in
> all other respects it was a cloud solution.
>
> I was wondering, how do other major 4D server deployers optimise their
> deployment strategies to take advantage of this ? It seems a great thing
> that we are being “floated out to the cloud” without actually having to do
> extra significant work, but what about things like the backup strategy ? I
> don’t really like the idea that the log file has the same redundancy system
> as the main datafile because the whole idea is that the corruption doesn’t
> get replicated (which is what a RAID system does) and it’s independent at
> the logical level.
>
> We seem one step away from being able to supply server solutions where
> “our” customer doesn’t have to host the database server on premises. Is
> anybody doing this at an advanced level ? (e.g. connecting with 4D client
> native to a 4D server that’s 3rd-party hosted).
>
> Regards
>
> Peter
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **



-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

What can be said, can be said clearly,
and what you can’t say, you should shut up about

*Wittgenstein and the Computer *
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Option click close box

[Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech]

Miyako,

I am using your plugin, which is jolly useful! It provides handy visual 
feedback but other than that makes no difference.

I do have the “ask” checkbox in System Preferences checked (I confess I was 
completely unaware of it until now, so thanks for that).

In the 4D developer environment, of course, closing a “dirty” window just saves 
the changes without asking, so it doesn’t matter how it’s closed.

It seems to me that not sending an On close box event to a window which is 
about to be closed is at best unfortunate.

Jeremy


> On 10 Oct 2019, at 14:49, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am out of my depth on this subject,
> 
> but would system preferences / general / ask whether to save changes before 
> closing document (unchecked by default)
> 
> make any difference?
> 
> for what it's worth, you can control the dirty bit and disable the close box 
> with this:
> 
> https://miyako.github.io/2019/10/01/4d-plugin-window-control-v2.html
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Option click close box

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

Hello,

I am out of my depth on this subject,

but would system preferences / general / ask whether to save changes before 
closing document (unchecked by default)

make any difference?

for what it's worth, you can control the dirty bit and disable the close box 
with this:

https://miyako.github.io/2019/10/01/4d-plugin-window-control-v2.html



**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: selecting pixels

[Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech]

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 2:57 PM Peter Mew via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> Thanks
> Could you expand a bit on your reply
> Thanks
> -pm
>


What exactly you want to achieve? You want to allow user to drag something
or draw on screen? Over some area, or outside the 4D window as well?

--

Peter Bozek
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Option click close box

[Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech]

Miyako,

In pretty much every Mac application which can have multiple windows open, 
option-click on the close box of a window closes all the app’s windows, and as 
far as I can recall always has. It’s essentially synonymous with cmd-opt-W. Try 
Preview, for example.

In an app whose windows can be “dirty” (ie have unsaved changes), you should 
see a “save changes?” dialog for each dirty window. Again, try Preview and 
you’ll see what I mean. 

In 4D developer mode, option-click close has exactly the same effect as 
cmd-opt-W; all windows close.

In application mode, cmd-opt-w does whatever I program it to do; I don’t think 
there’s a default supported by 4D. That’s fine. Option-click on the close box 
closes all windows, including the splash, and puts me into developer mode. It 
may well be that that’s what it’s supposed to do, but I’d have expected open 
application windows to be sent On close box events. Otherwise, “dirty” windows 
can’t ask whether changes should be saved: they’re just summarily closed.

Jeremy

> On 10 Oct 2019, at 09:23, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> not the close box, but "Option-Command-W" is standard Apple shortcut.
> 
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236
> 
> no mention of option+close here:
> 
> https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/work-with-app-windows-mchlp2469/mac
> 
> I can not comment if the form event not firing or the splash window closing 
> is a bug or not.
> 
> do you get the same result with option+command+W?
> 
> 
> 
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Windows Code Signing

[ADeeg via 4D_Tech]

John,

if you purchase the codesign certificate from comodo (don't forget the 15%
coupon)

Then it took 2-3 days until you get it. First you have to verify your mail
and phone.

After the certificate is ready and you download it, this gets stored inside
your browser certificates named "Sectico Limited". You have to export/save
the certificate from your browser certificates and gets a *.p12 file.

You have to double click the *.p12 (*= your choosen name) certificate and
gets a certificate import wizzard on windows. Store it and export it twice
from the windows certificate authorization 
1x as SHA1.pfx
1x as SHA256.pfx

To get signtool.exe I've installed visual studio from Microsoft (free
version). You have to check whre the latest signtool.exe ist stored inside
application files and modify the hardcode path in my sample code.

Within my sample code, modify the path name to the two certificates and
replace the mypass with your choosen passwort during exporting the
p12 certificate from your browser.

I sign the installers and the final compiled build 4D exe files (engine,
Server, Client)

Happy testing

Armin


4D Tech mailing list wrote
> There is a tech note for using signtool.exe
> 
> https://kb.4d.com/assetid=78265
> 4D Partners only
> 
> Regards Armin





--
Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech]

Hi Peter,

Indeed, it is a brave new world, isn’t it? And like you said, it all happened 
transparently.

At my last employer everything was virtualized. The SAN ‘guarenteed’ data 
uptime and redundancy. “Disks” (HDD or SSD) were ‘auto-healing’ and hardware 
failover was automatic. It is really quite amazing. And it worked very well. 
Once the VMs were optimized it was as fast or faster than dedicated hardware. 
Moving 4D Server to the “external cloud" is another question. For optimum (or 
maybe even just tolerable) performance, your app will need to be designed with 
a very lightweight front end. Or abandon 4D client and use a web front end.

>I don’t really like the idea that the log file has the same redundancy system 
>as the main datafile because the whole idea is that the corruption doesn’t get 
>replicated (which is what a RAID system does) and it’s independent at the 
>logical level.
> 
A SAN is really a lot more that just a RAID. As for a backup strategy, at this 
point we’re really talking about a disaster recovery plan, since the SAN is 
‘guarenteed'. You might consider mirroring to another ‘cloud service'. Since 
"spinning up" a VM is so easy now, all you need is another 4D server license to 
set up a 4D mirror server. Have it integrate the log file every minute or two 
and you have a near real time backup, ready for (manual) failover. Since only 
the log files sent, and they are tiny, the bandwidth costs would be extremely 
small.

Tom benedict

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: selecting pixels

[Peter Mew via 4D_Tech]

Thanks
Could you expand a bit on your reply
Thanks
-pm

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:06 PM Spencer Hinsdale via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

>
> -> On Event Call `lmk if you need more suggestions
>
> On 10/10/19, 4:12 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of Peter Mew via 4D_Tech" <
> 4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com on behalf of 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> A pointer to which commands to read up on would be good enough (I hope)
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

4D Server Hosting - The Future ?

[Peter Jakobsson via 4D_Tech]

Hi !

I just finished a 1.5 hour phonecall with a support services manager at the 
technical services company who supply one of my customers with all their 
hardware/software/maintenance services.

He basically brought me up to date on “how things work” today which is 
essentially that everything to do with platforms is now virtualised to allow 
them to ‘tune’ resources to demand in realtime and provide seamless, no 
downtime backup. Basically, my 4d Server is now a “cloud service” without me 
even being aware of it, it’s just that the hardware involved happens to be 
located on the preises.

In particular we discussed backup configurations for 4D server and this was 
interesting because, while I requested independent drives for logfile 
(“journal”) and datafile purposes, he essentially told me to just stick 
everything on the same drive because it was virtual anyway and had multiple 
redundancy protection via raid, 15-minute snapshotting etc. He offered to 
“create” a C: and a D: drive to make me feel better, but pointed out that 
they’re not much more independent than 2 folders would have been.

CONCLUSON
I now realise that the “WAN” / “LAN” distinction is disappearing. He said the 
only reason the “cloud” solution wasn’t hosted off-site was that they had 
measured the bandwidth that the customer used and calculated that the cost 
would be astronomical if it was on AWS or something like that, but in all other 
respects it was a cloud solution.

I was wondering, how do other major 4D server deployers optimise their 
deployment strategies to take advantage of this ? It seems a great thing that 
we are being “floated out to the cloud” without actually having to do extra 
significant work, but what about things like the backup strategy ? I don’t 
really like the idea that the log file has the same redundancy system as the 
main datafile because the whole idea is that the corruption doesn’t get 
replicated (which is what a RAID system does) and it’s independent at the 
logical level.

We seem one step away from being able to supply server solutions where “our” 
customer doesn’t have to host the database server on premises. Is anybody doing 
this at an advanced level ? (e.g. connecting with 4D client native to a 4D 
server that’s 3rd-party hosted).

Regards

Peter

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: selecting pixels

[Spencer Hinsdale via 4D_Tech]

-> On Event Call `lmk if you need more suggestions
 
On 10/10/19, 4:12 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of Peter Mew via 4D_Tech" 
<4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com on behalf of 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

A pointer to which commands to read up on would be good enough (I hope)
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

RE: Re: 4D v17r4 Windows Print To PDF ignoring PAGE SETUP

[Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech]

Hi Cameron,

Did you find a solution for this?
I am working on a Windows 10 64-bit machine and have the same problem
Whatever I do to change the paper size:
SET PRINT OPTION(Paper option;1130;820)
SET PRINT OPTION(Paper option;"A3")

The output to Windows Print To PDF doesn’t respect any of my settings

Gr,
Piotr

Van: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders 
Verzonden: Thursday, 10 October 2019 13:55
Aan: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders 
Onderwerp: Re: 4D v17r4 Windows Print To PDF ignoring PAGE SETUP

The newest versions of 4D do better if you set these options in code instead of 
a saved page setup. Try using SET PRINT OPTION to change it to landscape mode.

> On Jul 3, 2019, at 6:13 PM, Cameron Ambrose via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_t...@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Just updated to 4D v17r4 and it appears that when using the Windows 10 (64 
> bit) PDF printer, the client is no longer honouring the PAGE SETUP definition 
> and instead just printing in portrait letter.

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

selecting pixels

[Peter Mew via 4D_Tech]

Hi
Is it possible to select a group of pixels by dragging across them.
So you get
Mouse down position (in Pixels)
Drag to new position (Leaving a Trail)
Mouse Up position (In pixels)
I'm only interested in a Horizontal Movement
A pointer to which commands to read up on would be good enough (I hope)

4D v13.6

Thanks
-pm
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: 4D and FTP - AGAIN

[Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech]

All,

> On 9 Oct 2019, at 22:19 AEDT, Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> This is a SOS / 000 / 911 / 112 - call !!


STAND DOWN RED ALERT!

Keisuke's 4d-plugin-curl-ftp works - for the most part.

The limits:

IN THE ROOT:
One can create directories, upload files and download files but no 
rename/delete/remove directory…


Uploading files with directory hierarchy with “createMissingDir" - works ONLY 
with one additional level of directory.

There is some kind of timeout/time limit when one is debugging 
"forward/backward/left/right” without leaving the debugger or even restart 4D…

These are my findings only!!

For what I have to do Keisuke's 4d-plugin-curl-ftp will do fine.


Since the plugIn is open source is there anybody out there willing to take over 
an maintain it?


Or is there a secret plan from 4D to overhaul 4D_Internet_Commands which the 
World Wide Developer Community will find out about only if they sacrifice a 
black cat at full moon on the grave of a killer?


 4D! What about 4D-Internet_Commands???
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: Option click close box

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

not the close box, but "Option-Command-W" is standard Apple shortcut.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236

no mention of option+close here:

https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/work-with-app-windows-mchlp2469/mac

I can not comment if the form event not firing or the splash window closing is 
a bug or not.

do you get the same result with option+command+W?



**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**