On Jun 28, 2018, at 12:22 AM, Mart Zirnask wrote:
>
> Regarding Forth systems, this might also be of interest:
> http://cosy.com
People may find articles on k, joy etc. on Stevan Apter's
website to be interesting:
http://nsl.com/
In particular Stevan Apter's conversation with Manfred von
Thun
> a sort of operating system where the primary interface to all tasks is
> a Forth interpreter.
The next step beyond eliminating the OS and running forth on bare metal
is to eliminate the (conventional) CPU and build a forth processor on
a FPGA. See for example
Regarding Forth systems, this might also be of interest:
http://cosy.com
"CoSy is the evolute of a life lived in noteComputing environments
built in Ken Iverson's APL and Arthur Whitney's K now built Ron
Aaron's open to the chip Reva Forth"
Mart
On 28/06/2018, Tyga wrote:
> That's very neat
That's very neat !
You might want to consider using a derivative of that PDP-11 work in a IoT
(Internet of Things) context.
IoT devices really need a better programming environment than that provided
by Arduino development tools.
On 28 June 2018 at 02:20, Brian L. Stuart wrote:
> On Wed,
Talking of Forth, it is worthwhile to note that Postscript as implemented
by Adobe for laser printers and subsequently for photo-typesetters, etc is
a very good example of Forth-like system running on bare metal and
providing an application specific programming + operating environment.
Years
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018, at 7:36 AM, Tyga wrote:
> Re: your comment about trackpad / vertical mouse.
>
> I had a similar RSI problem a couple of years ago. I solved it by using a
> Logitech trackball with my right hand - but only to move the cursor and I
> used a MS optical mouse with the
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018, at 6:17 AM, 刘宇宝 wrote:
>
>
> > On Jun 25, 2018, at 5:33 PM, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
> >
> >
> > I picked up an idea from microapl.com, workspaces. Saving system
> > state is one of my goals for my OS, and the concept of workspaces
> > pertaining to separate tasks keeps
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018, at 4:24 AM, 刘宇宝 wrote:
>
> Recently I read Rob Pike's "Systems Software Research is Irrelevant", I
> felt pity, and I was wondering what the operating system would look like
> in the future, here is my stupid optimistic predication:
I felt sad when I read it too, but
On Wed, 6/20/18, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
> but on the back burner is a
> Forth-based project; a sort of operating system where the
> primary interface to all tasks is a Forth interpreter. So
> far, I've written the basics of a text editor. It's
> *very* little code!
I love seeing this idea
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 10:39 PM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 10:35:42PM +0100, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
>>
>> a sort of operating system where the primary interface to all tasks is
>> a Forth interpreter.
>
> I think we've talked about this in another venue some years back, but
On Jun 25, 2018, at 2:33 AM, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, at 7:03 PM, Bakul Shah wrote:
>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 8:23 AM, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks! I don't know APL at all, beyond the fact that its need for a
>>> graphical (or at least sophisticated) display
stent IPC/RPC API will win,
> Google Kubernetes will die. Many ideas of Plan 9 will revive, just like
> memory garbage collecting revived after about 30 years.
>
> Regards,
> Yubao Liu
>
> >
> > From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net <9fans-boun...@9fans.net> on behalf of
>
> On Jun 25, 2018, at 5:33 PM, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
>
>
> I picked up an idea from microapl.com, workspaces. Saving system
> state is one of my goals for my OS, and the concept of workspaces
> pertaining to separate tasks keeps popping up when I get ideas. For
> those who don't know,
n...@9fans.net <9fans-boun...@9fans.net> on behalf of Rui
> Carmo
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 5:06 PM
> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
> Subject: Re: [9fans] What are you using Plan 9 for?
>
> I’m late to the thread, but this seems like a good point to step in
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, at 7:03 PM, Bakul Shah wrote:
> On Jun 21, 2018, at 8:23 AM, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
> >
> > Thanks! I don't know APL at all, beyond the fact that its need for a
> > graphical (or at least sophisticated) display held it back in the past. I
> > should probably look into
in rc,
finally I gave up, used "Ctrl-m" instead.
Regards,
Yubao Liu
From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net <9fans-boun...@9fans.net> on behalf of Ethan A.
Gardener
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:11 PM
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: Re: [9fans] What a
One of the first systems that I could actually touch was a 68K/S100 system
back in early '80s; it ran a unix-like OS. It was made by a Seattle area
company named Empirical Research Group. The CPU board had Forth in ROM. I
was lucky enough to witness one of the designers perform some serious
On Jun 21, 2018, at 8:23 AM, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
>
> Thanks! I don't know APL at all, beyond the fact that its need for a
> graphical (or at least sophisticated) display held it back in the past. I
> should probably look into it now, I'm sure it would save me from making some
> mistakes
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, at 6:39 AM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 10:35:42PM +0100, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
> >
> > a sort of operating system where the primary interface to all tasks is
> > a Forth interpreter.
>
> I think we've talked about this in another venue some years
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, at 5:49 AM, Bakul Shah wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 05:58:42 +0200 Lucio De Re wrote:
> Lucio De Re writes:
> > On 6/20/18, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
> > > [ ... ] Most of it is going into game scripting at the moment, but on the
> > > b
> > ack
> > > burner is a
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, at 4:58 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
> On 6/20/18, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
> > [ ... ] Most of it is going into game scripting at the moment, but on the
> > back
> > burner is a Forth-based project; a sort of operating system where the
> > primary interface to all tasks is a
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, at 8:20 AM, Mart Zirnask wrote:
> On 21/06/2018, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
> >... I no longer have a desk of
> > the right proportions to make mouse use comfortable, and can no longer bend
> > over a laptop for hours on end, (a Thinkpad with 3 buttons,) text editing in
> >
i'm using plan9port (thanks, rsc) on linux for some 8 years now, for all
coding - mostly low-brow web dev
primarily Acme as IDE, Rc and awk for scripting the necessary tooling
back when i was stuck at a corpo and had to use Windows on workstation, i
installed
p9p on one of build servers and ran
I’m late to the thread, but this seems like a good point to step in.
I’m using plan9 on a quad-core Raspberry Pi as a sort of universal terminal to
manage some of my home machines, and recently deleted the 9front VM I had on my
home KVM server because even though the programming model and Go
On 21/06/2018, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
>... I no longer have a desk of
> the right proportions to make mouse use comfortable, and can no longer bend
> over a laptop for hours on end, (a Thinkpad with 3 buttons,) text editing in
> Plan 9 has become unpleasant. I could patch Samterm and Rio to
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 10:35:42PM +0100, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
>
> a sort of operating system where the primary interface to all tasks is
> a Forth interpreter.
I think we've talked about this in another venue some years back, but I
often thing of the OpenFirmware implementation used by the
On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 05:58:42 +0200 Lucio De Re wrote:
Lucio De Re writes:
> On 6/20/18, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
> > [ ... ] Most of it is going into game scripting at the moment, but on the b
> ack
> > burner is a Forth-based project; a sort of operating system where the
> > primary interface
On 6/20/18, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
> [ ... ] Most of it is going into game scripting at the moment, but on the back
> burner is a Forth-based project; a sort of operating system where the
> primary interface to all tasks is a Forth interpreter. [ ... ]
Bakul may not agree, but that sounds like
On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, at 7:14 AM, 刘宇宝 wrote:
> this makes me wondering
> whether anybody still seriously uses(or used?) Plan 9 for serious work,
> what software they frequently use, what software is most lack of.
For many years I used it and especially Acme to try to organise my life,
On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 1:58 AM, Iruatã Souza wrote:
> Did you (or Thierry) tried running LuaTeX? I have "ported" lua ages
> ago to Plan 9 and it was pretty easy, but I know nothing about LuaTex
> internals or the relation between both.
Indeed, I had noted your port with interest, for this
I've been using it with Klong ( http://t3x.org/klong/index.html )
lately which supports plan9 natively.
On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 6:39 AM, Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
wrote:
> I cannot really say I am using Plan9 for anything serious, although I have
> both Plan9 and 9Front running on a couple of old
I cannot really say I am using Plan9 for anything serious, although I have
both Plan9 and 9Front running on a couple of old laptops. I keep them
around mainly to see if I can grok the ideas and maybe steal some of them
:-)
But I run the Plan9port tools on both Linux and Solaris, and occasionally
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 04:58:35PM -0700, Iruatã Souza wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Mark van Atten
> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Mart Zirnask wrote:
> >
> >> I'm a part-time writer and radio producer with no CS background, so I
> >> even use this machine for
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Mark van Atten wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Mart Zirnask wrote:
>
>> I'm a part-time writer and radio producer with no CS background, so I
>> even use this machine for producing 1-hour radio shows for Estonian
>> Public Broadcasting. (Thank you, Non
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Mart Zirnask wrote:
> I'm a part-time writer and radio producer with no CS background, so I
> even use this machine for producing 1-hour radio shows for Estonian
> Public Broadcasting. (Thank you, Non Daw!: http://non.tuxfamily.org).
>
> I just love the "zen" of
On Fri, 6/15/18, Mark van Atten wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Brian L. Stuart
> wrote:
> > Can't say for LInux, but I run it all the time under 64-bit FreeBSD.
>
> As of 11.0, FreeBSD has its own fdclose() with conflicting types.
> https://github.com/0intro/vx32/issues/3
>
> Did
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Brian L. Stuart wrote:
> Can't say for LInux, but I run it all the time under 64-bit FreeBSD.
As of 11.0, FreeBSD has its own fdclose() with conflicting types.
https://github.com/0intro/vx32/issues/3
Did you patch it, or are you running an earlier FreeBSD?
hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 9vx only works on 32bit linux userland. and cinap reminds us that 9vx
> is not synced to latest improvements in 9front kernel.
Thanks. I was planning to try out 9front with 9vx; now I won't bother.
9legacy has been running fine for me.
Mart
9vx only works on 32bit linux userland. and cinap reminds us that 9vx
is not synced to latest improvements in 9front kernel.
he's already maintaining drawterm and keeping it synced with 9front.
even if he had infinite time, 32bit might turn out to be a dead-end
anyway, so it's probably better to
On 6/15/18, Mart Zirnask wrote:
>
> +1, and there's also good old 9vx:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Vx32
>
Great news. I've upgraded my Linux Mint to 64-buit ad I've been
reluctant to experiment with 9vx, which I really like a lot. Can you
confirm thatit runs OK under 64-bit Linux? Do I
> Do you mean /sys/src/cmd/ssh.c ? If not, where can I obtain it?
The path is correct. It's part of 9front.
> That said, I would switch to 9front + vmx immediately. (I even
> conceptualized an awk-based "suite" for audio montage for Acme, using
> the "everything is a file" paradigm".)
>
> Unfortunately my Intel 2200bg wifi card doesn't seem to work in
> 9front. Has somebody maybe finished rsc's driver
On 14/06/2018, Daniel Camoles wrote:
>
> Well I don't know if it solves your problem, but you could run openbsd from
>
> inside vmx, and then run a browser like chrome in there. Works perfectly.
> You probably could substitute openbsd for linux or other, vmx is fully
> functional.
>
+1, and
As of February Go supports Plan 9, according to David du Colombier. I was doing
some projects with Go and shot him an email around that time.
> On Jun 15, 2018, at 5:12 AM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There is a middling list of improvements I would like, some needing
>> hard work (Go's Shiny),
> what exactly do you mean?
It's said Go doesn't official support Plan 9 any more, maybe I'm wrong...
>
>> some in the middle
> For these reasons Plan9 struggles to become more widely adopted as a
> desktop system and in turn porting programs is either taken on as a
> challenge or labour of love.
It's good most people don't do direct ports. A plan9-specific
reinterpretation is so much more interesting.
> So it is not
> There is a middling list of improvements I would like, some needing
> hard work (Go's Shiny),
what exactly do you mean?
> some in the middle (proper SSH functionality,
> native to Plan 9 - I haven't had a chance to mess with Go's options)
already done by cinap.
easy, native, and without any
On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 03:22:24PM +0100, Steve Simon wrote:
> The bigger problem today is the lack of a modern web browser.
>
> There have been many attempts from fgb's abaco, updates of mothra, chyron
> (sp?) from inferno,
> and cinap's linuxemu wrapping around opera. Sadly none of these works
the problem with supporting a modern web browser is not so much a
matter of programming, the biggest problems are of political nature.
On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 03:22:24PM +0100, Steve Simon wrote:
>
> The bigger problem today is the lack of a modern web browser.
>
FWIW, there is a javascript engine in C:
http://duktape.org/
and a browser if I'm not mistaken written in C (there is the choice
between are several distinct
I too have run plan9 since the early 2000s, and plan to stick with it.
> And display adaptors are one of the most challenging for device
> drivers which in turn means that anything that depends on X, etc is going
> to be a challenge. Sound cards, etc are almost as bad.
I think things have
I fear that I might be starting a flame war, but ...
I have been using Plan9 (and Inferno to a lesser extent) on and off for
about two decades. The concepts are very enticing. But like any other
niche OS (e.g. Minix) the biggest stumbling block seems to be device
drivers. And display adaptors
My most current frustration (a bit off topic) is Skype's keystroke
echo latency, whatever the cause. I can't cope with it, yet I have to
use it for employment reasons.
It reminds me that upas with acme Mail is immeasurably faster at
reading and reacting to mail than the bloat I need to use as a
Compared to "not for you", "don't care", "intend to not be successful", I like
more the topic of cat-v irc channel on freenode set by aiju: "fun fact: you
can use multiple operating systems at the same time".
Certainly Plan 9 can't replace Linux/macOS/BSD/Windows, I'm still curious its
upper
I think a lot of people discover Plan 9 and want it to be something it isn’t,
rather than stumble upon it out of necessity. As the FQA says, “Plan 9 is not
for you."
[sorry to cross post to 9front, hope somebody there can double check]
Uh, is the mailing list down? I can't find any new emails after 5/14 at
https://marc.info/?l=9fans,
also can't connect to http://mail.9fans.net/.
> On Jun 11, 2018, at 2:14 PM, 刘宇宝 wrote:
>
> Yesterday night I finished
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