Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

2018-12-04 Thread Mathew Howard 
I've seen that happen before, but I can't remember what we did to fix it...
I think we may have had to replace the radio. I can't remember if it was a
PTP or PTMP situation, either... it was a while ago.

It might be worth switching it to TDD PTP mode instead, and see if that
helps.

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 10:14 PM Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> Yes de-registering the link does make the link start passing traffic again
> although it seems a lot shorter lived so far. Only lasted an hour.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Brandon Yuchasz
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2018 7:56 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.
>
>
>
> I don’t know. I will report back after trying it.
>
> Thanks for the idea.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2018 4:02 PM
> *To:* AFMUG
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.
>
>
>
> Does it start working again if you just de-register the link, instead of
> rebooting the radio(s)?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:33 AM Brandon Yuchasz 
> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> I have not seems like such a strange issue I didn’t have much faith in
> tech support. My experience is the list seems to have better info on these
> odd issues. One side of this link requires snow shoes to get to so I am
> trying to avoid replacement if at all possible.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2018 8:01 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.
>
>
>
> Have you placed a support request to cambium yet?
> https://support.cambiumnetworks.com/
>
> On 12/3/18 7:53 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:
>
> Looking to see if anyone has experienced a similar issue to this:
>
> We have a force 200 backhaul on a small bridged network.
>
> Several times a day now it stops passing most traffic. It can be humming
> along at 25mbps down and 5mbps upload and then drop down to 2mbps download
> and less than 1mbps upload.
>
> Downlink RSSI -65 dBm
>
> Downlink SRN 30 dB
>
> Uplink MCS MCS 14
>
> Downlink MCS MCS15
>
> All remains constant during this time.
>
>
>
> The ping falls apart during this time between the AP and the SM although
> pings through the network to the SM or through the network from the AM are
> both fine it’s just between them that starts to drop packets.
>
>
>
> The units show heavy retransmission packets from the moment the link is
> brought online around 40% at times.
>
>
>
> At this point I would assume noise is the issue.
>
>
>
> *But here is the odd part I would like some help with*. Rebooting the
> link fixes the issue but leaving the link alone does not. It will stay
> “broken” until one or both sides of the link are rebooted. Then it works
> perfectly for a time and falls apart again.
>
>
>
> Current firmware is 3.5.1 but we have run it on 2.6.1.1 and 3.3 with
> similar results.
>
>
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on how to troubleshot this one would be awesome.
>
>
>
> Best Regards.
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

2018-12-04 Thread Brandon Yuchasz 
Yes de-registering the link does make the link start passing traffic again 
although it seems a lot shorter lived so far. Only lasted an hour. 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Yuchasz
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 7:56 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

 

I don’t know. I will report back after trying it.

Thanks for the idea.

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 4:02 PM
To: AFMUG
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

 

Does it start working again if you just de-register the link, instead of 
rebooting the radio(s)?

 

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:33 AM Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

Dave,

I have not seems like such a strange issue I didn’t have much faith in tech 
support. My experience is the list seems to have better info on these odd 
issues. One side of this link requires snow shoes to get to so I am trying to 
avoid replacement if at all possible.

 

Thanks,

Brandon

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 8:01 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

 

Have you placed a support request to cambium yet?
https://support.cambiumnetworks.com/

On 12/3/18 7:53 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

Looking to see if anyone has experienced a similar issue to this:

We have a force 200 backhaul on a small bridged network. 

Several times a day now it stops passing most traffic. It can be humming along 
at 25mbps down and 5mbps upload and then drop down to 2mbps download and less 
than 1mbps upload. 

Downlink RSSI -65 dBm

Downlink SRN 30 dB

Uplink MCS MCS 14

Downlink MCS MCS15

All remains constant during this time. 

 

The ping falls apart during this time between the AP and the SM although pings 
through the network to the SM or through the network from the AM are both fine 
it’s just between them that starts to drop packets.

 

The units show heavy retransmission packets from the moment the link is brought 
online around 40% at times.

 

At this point I would assume noise is the issue.

 

But here is the odd part I would like some help with. Rebooting the link fixes 
the issue but leaving the link alone does not. It will stay “broken” until one 
or both sides of the link are rebooted. Then it works perfectly for a time and 
falls apart again.

 

Current firmware is 3.5.1 but we have run it on 2.6.1.1 and 3.3 with similar 
results.

 

 

Any thoughts on how to troubleshot this one would be awesome.

 

Best Regards.

Brandon Yuchasz

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread Seth Mattinen 

On 12/4/18 8:03 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

It is 18 kW.  Two runs of some pretty large wire.  Maybe #8.
Perhaps a pair of 40 amp circuits I think.



Yeah that's like 80 amps at 240V. 8 AWG would be correct for 40 amp 
circuits.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread chuck 

It is 18 kW.  Two runs of some pretty large wire.  Maybe #8.
Perhaps a pair of 40 amp circuits I think.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert

Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 7:24 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

I am looking at various tankless water heaters, what amp circuit are you
feeding that one with?

On 12/4/18 6:15 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I discovered that the 240 VAC line coupling cap only has about 25% of its 
rated value.  Most of the voltage was getting dropped by that cap.  So 
once I get the replacement part, then the whole circuit can get proper 
power and we will see what voltages we have at the different places in the 
circuit. I think I must have had a bad surge.  Lost this water heater and 
the digital read out on my main manual lathe is totally goofy now too.

*From:* Chuck Macenski
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 4, 2018 6:59 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
Did you look at REFf with a scope? Is that an oscillator?
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 3:44 PM  wrote:

They also have a pair of LEDs in parallel with each other but in
series with the op amp power rail to indicate output.  Crazy all
over the place.
*From:* Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 4, 2018 2:29 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
Check the V- side of the circuit - is it tied to 0v or is that the
output?

https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4320338/Op-amp-can-source-or-sink-current
version (e) looks a bit like what you have and they are using the
negative rail of the chip as a constant current source.
Mark


On Dec 4, 2018, at 3:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit.
*From:* Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks
like the output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag
‘ref out’ up or down if there is any voltage on it.I can’t
recall if op amps can sink current or not.
The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood
for the kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A
Replacement board was 8 weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your
special catalog and fix it?”.   I suppose - hum.. this circuit
board is built to drive more than one fan.   Let’s take this SCR
out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here… yep - don’t
even need to order parts.
Mark


On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,  
wrote:
I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric
tankless hot water heater.
Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?
It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a
comparator to compare against a thermistor and pot combo.
LM324
Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen
this circuit before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.
The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences
between pins 5&6 so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the
divider with lower impedance.
Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it
incorrectly, but I think this really is the circuit.
It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread Robert 
I am looking at various tankless water heaters, what amp circuit are you 
feeding that one with?


On 12/4/18 6:15 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I discovered that the 240 VAC line coupling cap only has about 25% of 
its rated value.  Most of the voltage was getting dropped by that cap.  
So once I get the replacement part, then the whole circuit can get 
proper power and we will see what voltages we have at the different 
places in the circuit. I think I must have had a bad surge.  Lost this 
water heater and the digital read out on my main manual lathe is totally 
goofy now too.

*From:* Chuck Macenski
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 4, 2018 6:59 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
Did you look at REFf with a scope? Is that an oscillator?
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 3:44 PM  wrote:

They also have a pair of LEDs in parallel with each other but in
series with the op amp power rail to indicate output.  Crazy all
over the place.
*From:* Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 4, 2018 2:29 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
Check the V- side of the circuit - is it tied to 0v or is that the
output?
https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4320338/Op-amp-can-source-or-sink-current
version (e) looks a bit like what you have and they are using the
negative rail of the chip as a constant current source.
Mark


On Dec 4, 2018, at 3:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit.
*From:* Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks
like the output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag
‘ref out’ up or down if there is any voltage on it.    I can’t
recall if op amps can sink current or not.
The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood
for the kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A
Replacement board was 8 weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your
special catalog and fix it?”.   I suppose - hum.. this circuit
board is built to drive more than one fan.   Let’s take this SCR
out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here… yep - don’t
even need to order parts.
Mark


On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,  
wrote:
I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric
tankless hot water heater.
Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?
It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a
comparator to compare against a thermistor and pot combo.
LM324
Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen
this circuit before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.
The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences
between pins 5&6 so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the
divider with lower impedance.
Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it
incorrectly, but I think this really is the circuit.
It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread chuck 
I discovered that the 240 VAC line coupling cap only has about 25% of its rated 
value.  Most of the voltage was getting dropped by that cap.  So once I get the 
replacement part, then the whole circuit can get proper power and we will see 
what voltages we have at the different places in the circuit.  I think I must 
have had a bad surge.  Lost this water heater and the digital read out on my 
main manual lathe is totally goofy now too.  

From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 6:59 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

Did you look at REFf with a scope? Is that an oscillator? 

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 3:44 PM  wrote:

  They also have a pair of LEDs in parallel with each other but in series with 
the op amp power rail to indicate output.  Crazy all over the place.  

  From: Mark Radabaugh 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 2:29 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

  Check the V- side of the circuit - is it tied to 0v or is that the output?

  https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4320338/Op-amp-can-source-or-sink-current

  version (e) looks a bit like what you have and they are using the negative 
rail of the chip as a constant current source.

  Mark



On Dec 4, 2018, at 3:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks like the 
output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag ‘ref out’ up or down 
if there is any voltage on it.I can’t recall if op amps can sink current or 
not. 

The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood for the 
kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A Replacement board was 8 
weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your special catalog and fix it?”.   I suppose 
- hum.. this circuit board is built to drive more than one fan.   Let’s take 
this SCR out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here… yep - don’t even 
need to order parts.

Mark



  On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,   wrote:

  I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric tankless 
hot water heater.  
  Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?

  It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a comparator to 
compare against a thermistor and pot combo.  
  LM324

  Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen this 
circuit before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.
  The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences between pins 
5&6 so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the divider with lower impedance.  

  Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it 
incorrectly, but I think this really is the circuit.  
  It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?


  
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread Chuck Macenski 
Did you look at REFf with a scope? Is that an oscillator?

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 3:44 PM  wrote:

> They also have a pair of LEDs in parallel with each other but in series
> with the op amp power rail to indicate output.  Crazy all over the place.
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 4, 2018 2:29 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
>
> Check the V- side of the circuit - is it tied to 0v or is that the
> output?
>
> https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4320338/Op-amp-can-source-or-sink-current
>
> version (e) looks a bit like what you have and they are using the negative
> rail of the chip as a constant current source.
>
> Mark
>
> On Dec 4, 2018, at 3:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit.
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
>
> Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks like the
> output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag ‘ref out’ up or
> down if there is any voltage on it.I can’t recall if op amps can sink
> current or not.
>
> The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood for the
> kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A Replacement board was 8
> weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your special catalog and fix it?”.   I
> suppose - hum.. this circuit board is built to drive more than one fan.
> Let’s take this SCR out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here…
> yep - don’t even need to order parts.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,   wrote:
>
> I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric tankless
> hot water heater.
> Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?
>
> It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a comparator to
> compare against a thermistor and pot combo.
> LM324
>
> Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen this
> circuit before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.
> The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences between pins
> 5&6 so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the divider with lower
> impedance.
>
> Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it
> incorrectly, but I think this really is the circuit.
> It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?
>
>
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

2018-12-04 Thread Brandon Yuchasz 
eptp

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 10:45 AM
To: AFMUG
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

 

Are you running in eptp mode or TDD PTP?  Or ptmp/wifi


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 10:33 AM Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

Dave,

I have not seems like such a strange issue I didn’t have much faith in tech 
support. My experience is the list seems to have better info on these odd 
issues. One side of this link requires snow shoes to get to so I am trying to 
avoid replacement if at all possible.

 

Thanks,

Brandon

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 8:01 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

 

Have you placed a support request to cambium yet?
https://support.cambiumnetworks.com/

On 12/3/18 7:53 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

Looking to see if anyone has experienced a similar issue to this:

We have a force 200 backhaul on a small bridged network. 

Several times a day now it stops passing most traffic. It can be humming along 
at 25mbps down and 5mbps upload and then drop down to 2mbps download and less 
than 1mbps upload. 

Downlink RSSI -65 dBm

Downlink SRN 30 dB

Uplink MCS MCS 14

Downlink MCS MCS15

All remains constant during this time. 

 

The ping falls apart during this time between the AP and the SM although pings 
through the network to the SM or through the network from the AM are both fine 
it’s just between them that starts to drop packets.

 

The units show heavy retransmission packets from the moment the link is brought 
online around 40% at times.

 

At this point I would assume noise is the issue.

 

But here is the odd part I would like some help with. Rebooting the link fixes 
the issue but leaving the link alone does not. It will stay “broken” until one 
or both sides of the link are rebooted. Then it works perfectly for a time and 
falls apart again.

 

Current firmware is 3.5.1 but we have run it on 2.6.1.1 and 3.3 with similar 
results.

 

 

Any thoughts on how to troubleshot this one would be awesome.

 

Best Regards.

Brandon Yuchasz

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

2018-12-04 Thread Mathew Howard 
Does it start working again if you just de-register the link, instead of
rebooting the radio(s)?

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:33 AM Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> Dave,
>
> I have not seems like such a strange issue I didn’t have much faith in
> tech support. My experience is the list seems to have better info on these
> odd issues. One side of this link requires snow shoes to get to so I am
> trying to avoid replacement if at all possible.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2018 8:01 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.
>
>
>
> Have you placed a support request to cambium yet?
> https://support.cambiumnetworks.com/
>
> On 12/3/18 7:53 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:
>
> Looking to see if anyone has experienced a similar issue to this:
>
> We have a force 200 backhaul on a small bridged network.
>
> Several times a day now it stops passing most traffic. It can be humming
> along at 25mbps down and 5mbps upload and then drop down to 2mbps download
> and less than 1mbps upload.
>
> Downlink RSSI -65 dBm
>
> Downlink SRN 30 dB
>
> Uplink MCS MCS 14
>
> Downlink MCS MCS15
>
> All remains constant during this time.
>
>
>
> The ping falls apart during this time between the AP and the SM although
> pings through the network to the SM or through the network from the AM are
> both fine it’s just between them that starts to drop packets.
>
>
>
> The units show heavy retransmission packets from the moment the link is
> brought online around 40% at times.
>
>
>
> At this point I would assume noise is the issue.
>
>
>
> *But here is the odd part I would like some help with*. Rebooting the
> link fixes the issue but leaving the link alone does not. It will stay
> “broken” until one or both sides of the link are rebooted. Then it works
> perfectly for a time and falls apart again.
>
>
>
> Current firmware is 3.5.1 but we have run it on 2.6.1.1 and 3.3 with
> similar results.
>
>
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on how to troubleshot this one would be awesome.
>
>
>
> Best Regards.
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread chuck 
They also have a pair of LEDs in parallel with each other but in series with 
the op amp power rail to indicate output.  Crazy all over the place.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 2:29 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

Check the V- side of the circuit - is it tied to 0v or is that the output?

https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4320338/Op-amp-can-source-or-sink-current

version (e) looks a bit like what you have and they are using the negative rail 
of the chip as a constant current source.

Mark



  On Dec 4, 2018, at 3:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit.  

  From: Mark Radabaugh 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

  Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks like the 
output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag ‘ref out’ up or down 
if there is any voltage on it.I can’t recall if op amps can sink current or 
not. 

  The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood for the 
kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A Replacement board was 8 
weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your special catalog and fix it?”.   I suppose 
- hum.. this circuit board is built to drive more than one fan.   Let’s take 
this SCR out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here… yep - don’t even 
need to order parts.

  Mark



On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,   wrote:

I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric tankless hot 
water heater.  
Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?

It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a comparator to 
compare against a thermistor and pot combo.  
LM324

Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen this circuit 
before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.
The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences between pins 
5&6 so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the divider with lower impedance.  

Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it incorrectly, 
but I think this really is the circuit.  
It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread chuck 
Negative rail is tied to common ground.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 2:29 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

Check the V- side of the circuit - is it tied to 0v or is that the output?

https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4320338/Op-amp-can-source-or-sink-current

version (e) looks a bit like what you have and they are using the negative rail 
of the chip as a constant current source.

Mark



  On Dec 4, 2018, at 3:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit.  

  From: Mark Radabaugh 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

  Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks like the 
output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag ‘ref out’ up or down 
if there is any voltage on it.I can’t recall if op amps can sink current or 
not. 

  The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood for the 
kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A Replacement board was 8 
weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your special catalog and fix it?”.   I suppose 
- hum.. this circuit board is built to drive more than one fan.   Let’s take 
this SCR out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here… yep - don’t even 
need to order parts.

  Mark



On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,   wrote:

I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric tankless hot 
water heater.  
Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?

It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a comparator to 
compare against a thermistor and pot combo.  
LM324

Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen this circuit 
before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.
The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences between pins 
5&6 so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the divider with lower impedance.  

Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it incorrectly, 
but I think this really is the circuit.  
It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread Mark Radabaugh 
Check the V- side of the circuit - is it tied to 0v or is that the output?   

https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4320338/Op-amp-can-source-or-sink-current 


version (e) looks a bit like what you have and they are using the negative rail 
of the chip as a constant current source.

Mark

> On Dec 4, 2018, at 3:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit. 
>  
> From: Mark Radabaugh <>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
>  
> Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks like the 
> output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag ‘ref out’ up or down 
> if there is any voltage on it.I can’t recall if op amps can sink current 
> or not.
>  
> The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood for the 
> kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A Replacement board was 8 
> weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your special catalog and fix it?”.   I 
> suppose - hum.. this circuit board is built to drive more than one fan.   
> Let’s take this SCR out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here… yep 
> - don’t even need to order parts.
>  
> Mark
>  
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM, > > wrote:
>>  
>> I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric tankless hot 
>> water heater. 
>> Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?
>>  
>> It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a comparator to 
>> compare against a thermistor and pot combo. 
>> LM324
>>  
>> Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen this circuit 
>> before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.
>> The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences between pins 
>> 5&6 so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the divider with lower impedance. 
>>  
>> Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it incorrectly, 
>> but I think this really is the circuit. 
>> It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com <>
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
>  
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread chuck 
I have spent several hours going over it.  I photographed both sides of the 
board, edge detected the traces, flipped them, made them white and overlaid the 
component side.  

Then manually traced them and drew the schematic.  

The things connected to REF OUT are the inputs of two different op amp 
comparators.  

So it is a voltage reference.  Just an odd way to draw/design it.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 2:10 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

Are you sure you drew it right?  It’s not making any sense to  me, especially 
with REF OUT being an output.  I see a 3V virtual ground, a 100K positive 
feedback maybe for hysteresis, but that would assume this opamp is acting as a 
comparator not a reference generator, and REF OUT would be in input, and 
something else would be the output.  I thought maybe this was one of those 
fancy comparators with a  built in reference but an LM324 is just a plain 
vanilla single supply quad opamp.

 

Maybe once somebody explained how it works we could go aha! why didn’t I see 
that?  But right now it makes no sense to me.  Maybe if we saw what was 
connected to REF OUT.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 2:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

 

Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit.  

 

From: Mark Radabaugh 

Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

 

Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks like the 
output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag ‘ref out’ up or down 
if there is any voltage on it.I can’t recall if op amps can sink current or 
not. 

 

The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood for the 
kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A Replacement board was 8 
weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your special catalog and fix it?”.   I suppose 
- hum.. this circuit board is built to drive more than one fan.   Let’s take 
this SCR out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here… yep - don’t even 
need to order parts.

 

Mark

 





  On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,   wrote:

   

  I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric tankless hot 
water heater.  

  Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?

   

  It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a comparator to 
compare against a thermistor and pot combo.  

  LM324

   

  Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen this circuit 
before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.

  The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences between pins 5&6 
so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the divider with lower impedance.  

   

  Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it incorrectly, 
but I think this really is the circuit.  

  It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?

   

   

  

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Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

2018-12-04 Thread Dave 

You may be surprised at what you may learn once making contact with them.
There are alot of unknowns here so the more you can elaborate on the 
details of config and such

would help the list to define what may be the issue.
Also, The cambium forum is a good place to open up for discussion.

I learned tons about the Epmp2000 and ptp550 while on there.


On 12/3/18 7:53 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:


Looking to see if anyone has experienced a similar issue to this:

We have a force 200 backhaul on a small bridged network.

Several times a day now it stops passing most traffic. It can be 
humming along at 25mbps down and 5mbps upload and then drop down to 
2mbps download and less than 1mbps upload.


Downlink RSSI -65 dBm

Downlink SRN 30 dB

Uplink MCS MCS 14

Downlink MCS MCS15

All remains constant during this time.

The ping falls apart during this time between the AP and the SM 
although pings through the network to the SM or through the network 
from the AM are both fine it’s just between them that starts to drop 
packets.


The units show heavy retransmission packets from the moment the link 
is brought online around 40% at times.


At this point I would assume noise is the issue.

*_But here is the odd part I would like some help with_*. Rebooting 
the link fixes the issue but leaving the link alone does not. It will 
stay “broken” until one or both sides of the link are rebooted. Then 
it works perfectly for a time and falls apart again.


Current firmware is 3.5.1 but we have run it on 2.6.1.1 and 3.3 with 
similar results.


Any thoughts on how to troubleshot this one would be awesome.

Best Regards.

Brandon Yuchasz




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread Ken Hohhof 
Are you sure you drew it right?  It’s not making any sense to  me, especially 
with REF OUT being an output.  I see a 3V virtual ground, a 100K positive 
feedback maybe for hysteresis, but that would assume this opamp is acting as a 
comparator not a reference generator, and REF OUT would be in input, and 
something else would be the output.  I thought maybe this was one of those 
fancy comparators with a  built in reference but an LM324 is just a plain 
vanilla single supply quad opamp.

 

Maybe once somebody explained how it works we could go aha! why didn’t I see 
that?  But right now it makes no sense to me.  Maybe if we saw what was 
connected to REF OUT.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 2:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

 

Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit.  

 

From: Mark Radabaugh 

Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

 

Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks like the 
output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag ‘ref out’ up or down 
if there is any voltage on it.I can’t recall if op amps can sink current or 
not. 

 

The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood for the 
kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A Replacement board was 8 
weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your special catalog and fix it?”.   I suppose 
- hum.. this circuit board is built to drive more than one fan.   Let’s take 
this SCR out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here… yep - don’t even 
need to order parts.

 

Mark

 





On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,  mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

 

I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric tankless hot 
water heater.  

Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?

 

It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a comparator to compare 
against a thermistor and pot combo.  

LM324

 

Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen this circuit 
before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.

The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences between pins 5&6 
so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the divider with lower impedance.  

 

Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it incorrectly, but 
I think this really is the circuit.  

It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?

 

 



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread chuck 
Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks like the 
output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag ‘ref out’ up or down 
if there is any voltage on it.I can’t recall if op amps can sink current or 
not. 

The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood for the 
kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A Replacement board was 8 
weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your special catalog and fix it?”.   I suppose 
- hum.. this circuit board is built to drive more than one fan.   Let’s take 
this SCR out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here… yep - don’t even 
need to order parts.

Mark



  On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,   wrote:

  I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric tankless hot 
water heater.  
  Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?

  It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a comparator to 
compare against a thermistor and pot combo.  
  LM324

  Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen this circuit 
before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.
  The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences between pins 5&6 
so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the divider with lower impedance.  

  Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it incorrectly, 
but I think this really is the circuit.  
  It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?


  
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

2018-12-04 Thread Mark Radabaugh 
Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks like the 
output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag ‘ref out’ up or down 
if there is any voltage on it.I can’t recall if op amps can sink current or 
not.

The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood for the 
kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A Replacement board was 8 
weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your special catalog and fix it?”.   I suppose 
- hum.. this circuit board is built to drive more than one fan.   Let’s take 
this SCR out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here… yep - don’t even 
need to order parts.

Mark


> On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,   wrote:
> 
> I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric tankless hot 
> water heater. 
> Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?
>  
> It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a comparator to 
> compare against a thermistor and pot combo. 
> LM324
>  
> Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen this circuit 
> before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.
> The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences between pins 5&6 
> so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the divider with lower impedance. 
>  
> Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it incorrectly, 
> but I think this really is the circuit. 
> It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?
>  
>  
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

2018-12-04 Thread Ryan Ray 
Try latest firmware as well 3.5.2


On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 8:46 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Are you running in eptp mode or TDD PTP?  Or ptmp/wifi
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 10:33 AM Brandon Yuchasz 
> wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> I have not seems like such a strange issue I didn’t have much faith in
>> tech support. My experience is the list seems to have better info on these
>> odd issues. One side of this link requires snow shoes to get to so I am
>> trying to avoid replacement if at all possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2018 8:01 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you placed a support request to cambium yet?
>> https://support.cambiumnetworks.com/
>>
>> On 12/3/18 7:53 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:
>>
>> Looking to see if anyone has experienced a similar issue to this:
>>
>> We have a force 200 backhaul on a small bridged network.
>>
>> Several times a day now it stops passing most traffic. It can be humming
>> along at 25mbps down and 5mbps upload and then drop down to 2mbps download
>> and less than 1mbps upload.
>>
>> Downlink RSSI -65 dBm
>>
>> Downlink SRN 30 dB
>>
>> Uplink MCS MCS 14
>>
>> Downlink MCS MCS15
>>
>> All remains constant during this time.
>>
>>
>>
>> The ping falls apart during this time between the AP and the SM although
>> pings through the network to the SM or through the network from the AM are
>> both fine it’s just between them that starts to drop packets.
>>
>>
>>
>> The units show heavy retransmission packets from the moment the link is
>> brought online around 40% at times.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point I would assume noise is the issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> *But here is the odd part I would like some help with*. Rebooting the
>> link fixes the issue but leaving the link alone does not. It will stay
>> “broken” until one or both sides of the link are rebooted. Then it works
>> perfectly for a time and falls apart again.
>>
>>
>>
>> Current firmware is 3.5.1 but we have run it on 2.6.1.1 and 3.3 with
>> similar results.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts on how to troubleshot this one would be awesome.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards.
>>
>> Brandon Yuchasz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

2018-12-04 Thread Josh Luthman 
Are you running in eptp mode or TDD PTP?  Or ptmp/wifi

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 10:33 AM Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> Dave,
>
> I have not seems like such a strange issue I didn’t have much faith in
> tech support. My experience is the list seems to have better info on these
> odd issues. One side of this link requires snow shoes to get to so I am
> trying to avoid replacement if at all possible.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2018 8:01 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.
>
>
>
> Have you placed a support request to cambium yet?
> https://support.cambiumnetworks.com/
>
> On 12/3/18 7:53 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:
>
> Looking to see if anyone has experienced a similar issue to this:
>
> We have a force 200 backhaul on a small bridged network.
>
> Several times a day now it stops passing most traffic. It can be humming
> along at 25mbps down and 5mbps upload and then drop down to 2mbps download
> and less than 1mbps upload.
>
> Downlink RSSI -65 dBm
>
> Downlink SRN 30 dB
>
> Uplink MCS MCS 14
>
> Downlink MCS MCS15
>
> All remains constant during this time.
>
>
>
> The ping falls apart during this time between the AP and the SM although
> pings through the network to the SM or through the network from the AM are
> both fine it’s just between them that starts to drop packets.
>
>
>
> The units show heavy retransmission packets from the moment the link is
> brought online around 40% at times.
>
>
>
> At this point I would assume noise is the issue.
>
>
>
> *But here is the odd part I would like some help with*. Rebooting the
> link fixes the issue but leaving the link alone does not. It will stay
> “broken” until one or both sides of the link are rebooted. Then it works
> perfectly for a time and falls apart again.
>
>
>
> Current firmware is 3.5.1 but we have run it on 2.6.1.1 and 3.3 with
> similar results.
>
>
>
>
>
> Any thoughts on how to troubleshot this one would be awesome.
>
>
>
> Best Regards.
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Splicing on a pole off road

2018-12-04 Thread Adam Moffett 

Mules.  I'll have to look into that LOL


On 12/4/2018 10:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Ain’t no easy solution to this.  I have one fiber line that goes over 
the mountains between Telluride and Cortez CO.  Hump everything in.  
Splice it on the ground and do show shoes for the slack up on the 
strand.  Hooks, poles, ladders.  Mules.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, December 3, 2018 9:00 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Splicing on a pole off road
You can definitely mount a splice case on the pole.  Whether you mount 
it at the bottom or the top doesn't make much difference.  So for new 
installation and drop termination you could pre-plan and leave slack 
in all the right places. The issue I see is when there's a break and I 
have to develop slack from somewhere down the line or work with what's 
there.


There's also the fact that if I'm in the brush or in cornfield there 
may be no convenient place for a tent on the ground, and I have to be 
able to splice in the middle of the driving snow storm or else I'm 
just a pretender and not a real service provider.


So we might have to set up a tent and a work table up in the air and 
spike up the pole, and all of that crap has to be carried on foot.  I 
enjoy backpacking, but it sounds like a lot of shit to carry.  
#RuralFiber


I'm hoping for easy answers because I'm fundamentally lazy, but my 
devotion to duty means I have to set aside laziness and just grouse 
and bitch my way through whatever problem I'm facing.  So I know that 
I can walk out into the bush with all of my crap for splicing up on 
the pole in the wildernessI just don't want to.  Come on AFMUG, 
give me the easy solution!


On 12/3/2018 9:15 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


But they are OK with a pole in the cornfield?

Seems like there should be some kind of splice case you could mount 
on the pole maybe 5 feet off the ground.  Unless you worry that the 
farm equipment will hit it when making turns in the field. Seems like 
they would have to be turning within inches of a utility pole 
though.  Of course, that’s one of the reasons utility poles get 
knocked over in our area.  Not sure if it’s due to inattentive 
farmers, or GPS errors and autosteer.


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, December 3, 2018 8:02 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Splicing on a pole off road

That would work in some places for sure.  I bet they don't want a ped 
or hand hole in the corn field though.


On 12/3/2018 6:35 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Run it down the pole and splice in a ped or hand hole.

*From:*Jason McKemie

*Sent:*Monday, December 3, 2018 4:22 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Splicing on a pole off road

I've been using a Werner work platform.  They're actually made to
stand on, but provide me with some work space. Various
manufacturers make ladder-mount splicing workstations, most are
outrageously expensive though.

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 5:09 PM Adam Moffett 
wrote:

Do you mount a work table on the ladder?

On 12/3/2018 5:39 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:

I have several locations that I splice from a ladder on a
pole.  It isn't my favorite way to do things, but it is
workable.  If you're going to need to do it in inclement
weather, I would probably purchase a strand-mountable
ladder tent - providing steel strand is present.

-Jason

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 3:54 PM Adam Moffett
 wrote:

I'm looking at some rural places where for some
reason the power company
chose to run their pole line about 100 yards off the
road behind the
houses.

I cannot drive a bucket truck to some of these
places.  Sometimes you'd
be crushing a corn field to get there or other times
it's brushy and
untamed and you couldn't drive anything less than a
forestry mulcher
through it.

How do you equip someone for fusion splicing out in
the bush like that?
If we build on this route, we'll have to be able to
splice out there at
some point.  Do you clear a space on the ground and
set up a tent or do
you climb the pole and set up an aerial tent and lash
a work table to
the pole?

-Adam


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Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

2018-12-04 Thread Brandon Yuchasz 
Dave,

I have not seems like such a strange issue I didn't have much faith in tech
support. My experience is the list seems to have better info on these odd
issues. One side of this link requires snow shoes to get to so I am trying
to avoid replacement if at all possible.

 

Thanks,

Brandon

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 8:01 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

 

Have you placed a support request to cambium yet?
https://support.cambiumnetworks.com/

On 12/3/18 7:53 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

Looking to see if anyone has experienced a similar issue to this:

We have a force 200 backhaul on a small bridged network. 

Several times a day now it stops passing most traffic. It can be humming
along at 25mbps down and 5mbps upload and then drop down to 2mbps download
and less than 1mbps upload. 

Downlink RSSI -65 dBm

Downlink SRN 30 dB

Uplink MCS MCS 14

Downlink MCS MCS15

All remains constant during this time. 

 

The ping falls apart during this time between the AP and the SM although
pings through the network to the SM or through the network from the AM are
both fine it's just between them that starts to drop packets.

 

The units show heavy retransmission packets from the moment the link is
brought online around 40% at times.

 

At this point I would assume noise is the issue.

 

But here is the odd part I would like some help with. Rebooting the link
fixes the issue but leaving the link alone does not. It will stay "broken"
until one or both sides of the link are rebooted. Then it works perfectly
for a time and falls apart again.

 

Current firmware is 3.5.1 but we have run it on 2.6.1.1 and 3.3 with similar
results.

 

 

Any thoughts on how to troubleshot this one would be awesome.

 

Best Regards.

Brandon Yuchasz

 

 

 

 





 

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Re: [AFMUG] Splicing on a pole off road

2018-12-04 Thread chuck 
Ain’t no easy solution to this.  I have one fiber line that goes over the 
mountains between Telluride and Cortez CO.  Hump everything in.  Splice it on 
the ground and do show shoes for the slack up on the strand.  Hooks, poles, 
ladders.  Mules.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 9:00 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Splicing on a pole off road

You can definitely mount a splice case on the pole.  Whether you mount it at 
the bottom or the top doesn't make much difference.  So for new installation 
and drop termination you could pre-plan and leave slack in all the right 
places.  The issue I see is when there's a break and I have to develop slack 
from somewhere down the line or work with what's there.

There's also the fact that if I'm in the brush or in cornfield there may be no 
convenient place for a tent on the ground, and I have to be able to splice in 
the middle of the driving snow storm or else I'm just a pretender and not a 
real service provider.

So we might have to set up a tent and a work table up in the air and spike up 
the pole, and all of that crap has to be carried on foot.  I enjoy backpacking, 
but it sounds like a lot of shit to carry.  #RuralFiber 

I'm hoping for easy answers because I'm fundamentally lazy, but my devotion to 
duty means I have to set aside laziness and just grouse and bitch my way 
through whatever problem I'm facing.  So I know that I can walk out into the 
bush with all of my crap for splicing up on the pole in the wildernessI 
just don't want to.  Come on AFMUG, give me the easy solution!


On 12/3/2018 9:15 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  But they are OK with a pole in the cornfield?

   

  Seems like there should be some kind of splice case you could mount on the 
pole maybe 5 feet off the ground.  Unless you worry that the farm equipment 
will hit it when making turns in the field.  Seems like they would have to be 
turning within inches of a utility pole though.  Of course, that’s one of the 
reasons utility poles get knocked over in our area.  Not sure if it’s due to 
inattentive farmers, or GPS errors and autosteer.

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
  Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 8:02 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Splicing on a pole off road

   

  That would work in some places for sure.  I bet they don't want a ped or hand 
hole in the corn field though.



  On 12/3/2018 6:35 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Run it down the pole and splice in a ped or hand hole.  

 

From: Jason McKemie 

Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 4:22 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Splicing on a pole off road

 

I've been using a Werner work platform.  They're actually made to stand on, 
but provide me with some work space.  Various manufacturers make ladder-mount 
splicing workstations, most are outrageously expensive though.

 

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 5:09 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  Do you mount a work table on the ladder?

  On 12/3/2018 5:39 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:

I have several locations that I splice from a ladder on a pole.  It 
isn't my favorite way to do things, but it is workable.  If you're going to 
need to do it in inclement weather, I would probably purchase a 
strand-mountable ladder tent - providing steel strand is present. 

 

-Jason

 

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 3:54 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  I'm looking at some rural places where for some reason the power 
company 
  chose to run their pole line about 100 yards off the road behind the 
  houses.

  I cannot drive a bucket truck to some of these places.  Sometimes 
you'd 
  be crushing a corn field to get there or other times it's brushy and 
  untamed and you couldn't drive anything less than a forestry mulcher 
  through it.

  How do you equip someone for fusion splicing out in the bush like 
that?  
  If we build on this route, we'll have to be able to splice out there 
at 
  some point.  Do you clear a space on the ground and set up a tent or 
do 
  you climb the pole and set up an aerial tent and lash a work table to 
  the pole?

  -Adam


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Re: [AFMUG] Splicing on a pole off road

2018-12-04 Thread Bill Prince 

Fields are soft by necessity. Go underground instead of using poles.


bp


On 12/3/2018 8:00 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Come on AFMUG, give me the easy solution!


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Re: [AFMUG] odd Force 200 backhaul issues.

2018-12-04 Thread Dave 

Have you placed a support request to cambium yet?
https://support.cambiumnetworks.com/

On 12/3/18 7:53 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:


Looking to see if anyone has experienced a similar issue to this:

We have a force 200 backhaul on a small bridged network.

Several times a day now it stops passing most traffic. It can be 
humming along at 25mbps down and 5mbps upload and then drop down to 
2mbps download and less than 1mbps upload.


Downlink RSSI -65 dBm

Downlink SRN 30 dB

Uplink MCS MCS 14

Downlink MCS MCS15

All remains constant during this time.

The ping falls apart during this time between the AP and the SM 
although pings through the network to the SM or through the network 
from the AM are both fine it’s just between them that starts to drop 
packets.


The units show heavy retransmission packets from the moment the link 
is brought online around 40% at times.


At this point I would assume noise is the issue.

*_But here is the odd part I would like some help with_*. Rebooting 
the link fixes the issue but leaving the link alone does not. It will 
stay “broken” until one or both sides of the link are rebooted. Then 
it works perfectly for a time and falls apart again.


Current firmware is 3.5.1 but we have run it on 2.6.1.1 and 3.3 with 
similar results.


Any thoughts on how to troubleshot this one would be awesome.

Best Regards.

Brandon Yuchasz




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