Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Lewis Bergman]

That only takes a little while when you very good at it

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 9:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Don't mayors keep busy groping,  sextng, using private email servers ,
> building walls,  servicing council members wives and collecting money from
> speed traps?  How could you be bored Lewis?
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 5:27 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
> I'll reply only because I'm bored.
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 5:15 PM  wrote:
>
> Lewis Bergman wrote:
> >>> I rail against these types of projects not because they typically
> fail, which they do,
> >>  That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this
> up with some sources?
> >Do you mind enlightening us with all the tales of success and glory?
>  Excellent deflection, again! That mean it's just something you made up
> then?
>
> I guess you ask for facts and toy are not deflecting? Nice.
>
>
> >>  Could you also shine some light on those federal bailout programs you
> say are paying for all the failures?
> > RUS is federal and has taken the hit for a number of projects, not sure
> on Fiber and I wasn't just referring
> > to fiber. Maybe you are but I wasn't being that narrow.
>   I'm sure RUS has taken some hits on their projects.
>
>   However, that's not the point. RUS loans are applied for in advance of
> starting a project, not after the fact.
>   You wrote that there is a federal bailout program that "they ask for ...
> when they get in over their head."
>   What federal grants or assistance are you referring to, since it can't
> be RUS?
>
> Maybe you have difficulty understanding basic economics. If I loam you
> money in advance of doing something and you don't pay me I still lose
> money. If that lender is the government then the government last money.
> Since the government is funded by tax dollars you just got a tax funded
> bailout. You didn't pay me back a debt do you ate made while while I am
> not. Your refusal to comprehend fundamental concepts is tiring. Mauve
> that's is your strategy.
>
> >>> Let the free market system take care of everything else.
> >> How about them that the free market does not serve?
> > Who cares? Really...who cares.
>   That's not very neighborly of you.
>
> Maybe not but I really don't care. I actually think making my neighbor pay
> fits own way is better for my neighbor than paying it for him.
>
>   You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it totally ignores
> second order effects.
>   Moving isn't free, neither for the individual nor for society. Then
> there's the people that just can't move.
>
> Do you have facts to back that up? And if you just can't move and you
> can't get Internet you obviously don't need it.
>
>
>   Marginalizing people isn't very beneficial to society either, not even
> if you just count dollars and cents.
>
> Can you quote Any factual basis for your opinion?
>
> A lot of things require or are made possible by broadband. I'd rather have
> my tax dollars fund RUS loans or the like than use them for unemployment
> benefits.
>
> I would like to see you quote sources for the innuendo you purpose as
> fact. You are implying that the lack of Internet prevents unemployment in
> areas that previously had none of insufficient speed?
>
> I Persian know several it managers that run large corporate networks with
> thousands of employees. They both only have 20 mbs by choice due to the
> boost in productivity to locking down all but business traffic. He stated
> that almost 3% of broadband requirements before the lock down was business
> related.
>
> So while high speed Internet does assist in some ways it is neither an
> employment booster or productivity enhancer generally speaking. Want facts,
> search the studies as there are many of broadband Internet and its effect
> on productivity in the workplace.
>
>   So, would you rather spend your hard earned tax dollars of building new
> infrastructure so that the people that had to move can have needed services
> or would you permit broadbandless people to pay for their own damn
> internet, even if they have to bond for it locally?
>
> I have said before if a local group wants to buy into some bs go for it.
> If that gets rolled into some bailout if someplace like Detroit where the
> Feds step in then I would not be in favor of that. I am not saying Detroit
> had broadband loans it was an example of a municipal bail out.
>
>   According to the FCC, 1.4 million have no broadband available, not even
> satellite. 16 million people have satellite with 4M/1M or less available.
> There are not insignificant numbers.
>
>
> I think those are very insignificant. That is less than 1/2 percent. You
> seem to be assuming that those people both want and need more. Maybe you
> can't live with 25mbs but they likely can. And it is doubtful they will
> suddenly make $250k a year just because their access improves.
>
> > And to be really honest, it seems like a 

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Jeremy]

If you are already using AF5X, would this be a possibility?[image: Inline
image 1]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> We did a link from across the bay in Corpus Cristi with Tsunami 5Ghz
> radios using 4 ft. Dishes using horizontal polarity.   5 story building on
> one side and 120 ft.  Tower at other side.   These were 10mbps radios and
> we got almost 100% across.  All the other links on same roof and other
> water as well used vertical polarity and had ducting issues.   With MIMO
> and all kinds of polarity options I am sure you can find a solution.
> Antenna diversity must be engineered for path and conditions.   Where are
> you trying to shoot from?
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 6:39 PM, "Cassidy B. Larson"  wrote:
>
>> Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
>> Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although seawater
>> is a factor I dunno about
>>
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan  wrote:
>>
>> Well here's SAF response:
>> *My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio
>> that can achieve your objective for this path.*
>>
>> Trango:
>> *rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a
>> 3 - 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use
>> of space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
>> might be upwards of $50K).*
>>
>> I'll ask SIAE...
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>
>>> 20k?
>>>
>>> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of
>>> alfoplus1 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite
>>> polarities, equal OSPF cost between routers.
>>>
>>> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>>>
>>> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello everyone,

 What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
 over seawater... 20k$ budget.

 SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
 Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.

 We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
 The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.

 How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
 for space diversity? Splitter?

 Should a B5C perform better or worse ?

 Charles

>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Josh Reynolds]

Not yet, they're still in training. Have to work your way up from the speed
traps and voter polling place harassment.

On Oct 31, 2016 9:07 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Don't mayors keep busy groping,  sextng, using private email servers ,
> building walls,  servicing council members wives and collecting money from
> speed traps?  How could you be bored Lewis?
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 5:27 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
>> I'll reply only because I'm bored.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 5:15 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>> >>> I rail against these types of projects not because they typically
>>> fail, which they do,
>>> >>  That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back
>>> this up with some sources?
>>> >Do you mind enlightening us with all the tales of success and glory?
>>>  Excellent deflection, again! That mean it's just something you made up
>>> then?
>>>
>> I guess you ask for facts and toy are not deflecting? Nice.
>>
>>>
>>> >>  Could you also shine some light on those federal bailout programs
>>> you say are paying for all the failures?
>>> > RUS is federal and has taken the hit for a number of projects, not
>>> sure on Fiber and I wasn't just referring
>>> > to fiber. Maybe you are but I wasn't being that narrow.
>>>   I'm sure RUS has taken some hits on their projects.
>>>
>>>   However, that's not the point. RUS loans are applied for in advance of
>>> starting a project, not after the fact.
>>>   You wrote that there is a federal bailout program that "they ask for
>>> ... when they get in over their head."
>>>   What federal grants or assistance are you referring to, since it can't
>>> be RUS?
>>>
>> Maybe you have difficulty understanding basic economics. If I loam you
>> money in advance of doing something and you don't pay me I still lose
>> money. If that lender is the government then the government last money.
>> Since the government is funded by tax dollars you just got a tax funded
>> bailout. You didn't pay me back a debt do you ate made while while I am
>> not. Your refusal to comprehend fundamental concepts is tiring. Mauve
>> that's is your strategy.
>>
>>> >>> Let the free market system take care of everything else.
>>> >> How about them that the free market does not serve?
>>> > Who cares? Really...who cares.
>>>   That's not very neighborly of you.
>>>
>> Maybe not but I really don't care. I actually think making my neighbor
>> pay fits own way is better for my neighbor than paying it for him.
>>
>>>   You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it totally ignores
>>> second order effects.
>>>   Moving isn't free, neither for the individual nor for society. Then
>>> there's the people that just can't move.
>>>
>> Do you have facts to back that up? And if you just can't move and you
>> can't get Internet you obviously don't need it.
>>
>>>
>>>   Marginalizing people isn't very beneficial to society either, not even
>>> if you just count dollars and cents.
>>
>> Can you quote Any factual basis for your opinion?
>>
>>> A lot of things require or are made possible by broadband. I'd rather
>>> have my tax dollars fund RUS loans or the like than use them for
>>> unemployment benefits.
>>>
>> I would like to see you quote sources for the innuendo you purpose as
>> fact. You are implying that the lack of Internet prevents unemployment in
>> areas that previously had none of insufficient speed?
>>
>> I Persian know several it managers that run large corporate networks with
>> thousands of employees. They both only have 20 mbs by choice due to the
>> boost in productivity to locking down all but business traffic. He stated
>> that almost 3% of broadband requirements before the lock down was business
>> related.
>>
>> So while high speed Internet does assist in some ways it is neither an
>> employment booster or productivity enhancer generally speaking. Want facts,
>> search the studies as there are many of broadband Internet and its effect
>> on productivity in the workplace.
>>
>>   So, would you rather spend your hard earned tax dollars of building new
>>> infrastructure so that the people that had to move can have needed services
>>> or would you permit broadbandless people to pay for their own damn
>>> internet, even if they have to bond for it locally?
>>>
>> I have said before if a local group wants to buy into some bs go for it.
>> If that gets rolled into some bailout if someplace like Detroit where the
>> Feds step in then I would not be in favor of that. I am not saying Detroit
>> had broadband loans it was an example of a municipal bail out.
>>
>>   According to the FCC, 1.4 million have no broadband available, not even
>>> satellite. 16 million people have satellite with 4M/1M or less available.
>>> There are not insignificant numbers.
>>>
>>
>> I think those are very insignificant. That is less than 1/2 percent. You
>> seem to be assuming that those people both want and need 

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Jaime Solorza]

Don't mayors keep busy groping,  sextng, using private email servers ,
building walls,  servicing council members wives and collecting money from
speed traps?  How could you be bored Lewis?

On Oct 31, 2016 5:27 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> I'll reply only because I'm bored.
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 5:15 PM  wrote:
>
>> Lewis Bergman wrote:
>> >>> I rail against these types of projects not because they typically
>> fail, which they do,
>> >>  That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back
>> this up with some sources?
>> >Do you mind enlightening us with all the tales of success and glory?
>>  Excellent deflection, again! That mean it's just something you made up
>> then?
>>
> I guess you ask for facts and toy are not deflecting? Nice.
>
>>
>> >>  Could you also shine some light on those federal bailout programs you
>> say are paying for all the failures?
>> > RUS is federal and has taken the hit for a number of projects, not sure
>> on Fiber and I wasn't just referring
>> > to fiber. Maybe you are but I wasn't being that narrow.
>>   I'm sure RUS has taken some hits on their projects.
>>
>>   However, that's not the point. RUS loans are applied for in advance of
>> starting a project, not after the fact.
>>   You wrote that there is a federal bailout program that "they ask for
>> ... when they get in over their head."
>>   What federal grants or assistance are you referring to, since it can't
>> be RUS?
>>
> Maybe you have difficulty understanding basic economics. If I loam you
> money in advance of doing something and you don't pay me I still lose
> money. If that lender is the government then the government last money.
> Since the government is funded by tax dollars you just got a tax funded
> bailout. You didn't pay me back a debt do you ate made while while I am
> not. Your refusal to comprehend fundamental concepts is tiring. Mauve
> that's is your strategy.
>
>> >>> Let the free market system take care of everything else.
>> >> How about them that the free market does not serve?
>> > Who cares? Really...who cares.
>>   That's not very neighborly of you.
>>
> Maybe not but I really don't care. I actually think making my neighbor pay
> fits own way is better for my neighbor than paying it for him.
>
>>   You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it totally ignores
>> second order effects.
>>   Moving isn't free, neither for the individual nor for society. Then
>> there's the people that just can't move.
>>
> Do you have facts to back that up? And if you just can't move and you
> can't get Internet you obviously don't need it.
>
>>
>>   Marginalizing people isn't very beneficial to society either, not even
>> if you just count dollars and cents.
>
> Can you quote Any factual basis for your opinion?
>
>> A lot of things require or are made possible by broadband. I'd rather
>> have my tax dollars fund RUS loans or the like than use them for
>> unemployment benefits.
>>
> I would like to see you quote sources for the innuendo you purpose as
> fact. You are implying that the lack of Internet prevents unemployment in
> areas that previously had none of insufficient speed?
>
> I Persian know several it managers that run large corporate networks with
> thousands of employees. They both only have 20 mbs by choice due to the
> boost in productivity to locking down all but business traffic. He stated
> that almost 3% of broadband requirements before the lock down was business
> related.
>
> So while high speed Internet does assist in some ways it is neither an
> employment booster or productivity enhancer generally speaking. Want facts,
> search the studies as there are many of broadband Internet and its effect
> on productivity in the workplace.
>
>   So, would you rather spend your hard earned tax dollars of building new
>> infrastructure so that the people that had to move can have needed services
>> or would you permit broadbandless people to pay for their own damn
>> internet, even if they have to bond for it locally?
>>
> I have said before if a local group wants to buy into some bs go for it.
> If that gets rolled into some bailout if someplace like Detroit where the
> Feds step in then I would not be in favor of that. I am not saying Detroit
> had broadband loans it was an example of a municipal bail out.
>
>   According to the FCC, 1.4 million have no broadband available, not even
>> satellite. 16 million people have satellite with 4M/1M or less available.
>> There are not insignificant numbers.
>>
>
> I think those are very insignificant. That is less than 1/2 percent. You
> seem to be assuming that those people both want and need more. Maybe you
> can't live with 25mbs but they likely can. And it is doubtful they will
> suddenly make $250k a year just because their access improves.
>
> > And to be really honest, it seems like a large part of the customer base
>> in the areas I evaluated were wholly
>> > disinterested in fiber.
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Jaime Solorza]

We did a link from across the bay in Corpus Cristi with Tsunami 5Ghz radios
using 4 ft. Dishes using horizontal polarity.   5 story building on one
side and 120 ft.  Tower at other side.   These were 10mbps radios and we
got almost 100% across.  All the other links on same roof and other water
as well used vertical polarity and had ducting issues.   With MIMO and all
kinds of polarity options I am sure you can find a solution.  Antenna
diversity must be engineered for path and conditions.   Where are you
trying to shoot from?

On Oct 31, 2016 6:39 PM, "Cassidy B. Larson"  wrote:

> Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
> Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although seawater
> is a factor I dunno about
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan  wrote:
>
> Well here's SAF response:
> *My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio
> that can achieve your objective for this path.*
>
> Trango:
> *rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a 3
> - 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use of
> space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
> might be upwards of $50K).*
>
> I'll ask SIAE...
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>
>> 20k?
>>
>> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of
>> alfoplus1 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite
>> polarities, equal OSPF cost between routers.
>>
>> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>>
>> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
>>> over seawater... 20k$ budget.
>>>
>>> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
>>> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>>>
>>> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
>>> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>>>
>>> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
>>> for space diversity? Splitter?
>>>
>>> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Where is the link?  If it's desert it's one thing.  If it's Midwest it's 
another.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Oct 31, 2016, at 8:10 PM, Charles Regan  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over 
> seawater... 20k$ budget.
> 
> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
> 
> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
> 
> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x for 
> space diversity? Splitter?
> 
> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
> 
> Charles

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

our Af5x link

On Oct 31, 2016 10:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Remember that the path analysis involves frequency, xmt power, rcv
> sensitivity, antenna gain, and the rest is the RF path itself.  I think you
> might be focusing too much on the equipment.  If the numbers don’t add up,
> the equipment will probably have only incremental effect on the results.
>
>
>
> It’s like hoping to find the magic golf clubs that will turn you from a 20
> handicap golfer into a scratch golfer.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Charles Regan
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 8:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps
>
>
>
> 8ft dishes that's a problem.
> On one side it need to be on top of the 300ft tower.
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 10:05 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:
>
> SAF intergra with 60 ghz channels and some nice 8 ft dishes
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Charles Regan 
> wrote:
>
> 400Mbps in one direction.
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 9:52 PM, "David Milholen"  wrote:
>
> IS 400Mbs in one direction or both or aggregate?
>
> Budget is an issue for that size pipe one way for sure.
>
> PTP820C 1+0 may do it at 6Ghz Spatial diversity for sure but pricing has
> you.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 7:10 PM, Charles Regan wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over
> seawater... 20k$ budget.
>
> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>
> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>
> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
> for space diversity? Splitter?
>
> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Charles Regan]

We are using Meanwell TN3000, pure sine wave 3000W inverter charger. It has
a solar plug too. Cost is 950$

Small sites has the 1500W version the the inverter and Winston 24v 60Ah
lithium battery.

On Oct 31, 2016 10:17 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> 60% DOD is pretty conservative.  Do you lose power a lot?  Losing power at
> this site is somewhat of a hypothetical event.  A Mack truck on the highway
> wiped out 5 poles and we ran on propane for a whole day.  The previous
> outage was years before, and I don't expect another one for a few more
> years.
>
> ...and ideally I'm only on battery for a minute or two while the genny
> gets started.
>
>
> This was my thinking as well.. With my AGM setups I’m not comfortable
> pushing beyond 60% DOD.. I’m also paying a lot for 10-year rated large Ah
> AGM batteries these days.
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 2:33 PM
> *To:* af  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
>
>
>
> Figuring those prices, you're not going to end up too far off from the
> price of the Tesla for the same run time. Tripling the batteries will put
> you up to somewhere around $4500, for basically the same kWh, but if you
> factor in being able to 100% discharge the Tesla setup, you're going to
> need to add a bunch more battery.
>
> I wonder how the life expectancy compares...
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> That's the same link I sent earlier, bro.
>
> $3049 is list priceyou'll pay closer to $2500 - $2600.
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 3:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> This looks like it:
>
> http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-
> 120-240vac.html
>
> �
>
> $3409/12000=28.4 cents per watt.�
>
> Not too bad considering there is a battery charger in there.
>
> �
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
>
> �
>
> http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-
> 120-240vac.html
>
> This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I think)
> $160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't remember what
> it cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger
> batteries.�
>
> This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the
> Powerwall?
>
> �
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:
>
> The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that
> it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of
> my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our
> standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.
>
> �
>
> https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
>
> �
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> �
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

[Ken Hohhof]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston
.jpg

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

 

Our first 450m should arrive this week.  We plan to replace an existing 450
AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. 

 

However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some
installed and working.

 

Does anyone have 450m up and running.  Would you please share your
experiences and results.

 

Thanks

 

Adam

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Ken Hohhof]

Remember that the path analysis involves frequency, xmt power, rcv sensitivity, 
antenna gain, and the rest is the RF path itself.  I think you might be 
focusing too much on the equipment.  If the numbers don’t add up, the equipment 
will probably have only incremental effect on the results.

 

It’s like hoping to find the magic golf clubs that will turn you from a 20 
handicap golfer into a scratch golfer.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Charles Regan
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

 

8ft dishes that's a problem. 
On one side it need to be on top of the 300ft tower.

 

On Oct 31, 2016 10:05 PM, "Gino Villarini"  > wrote:

SAF intergra with 60 ghz channels and some nice 8 ft dishes

 

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Charles Regan  > wrote:

400Mbps in one direction.

 

On Oct 31, 2016 9:52 PM, "David Milholen"  > wrote:

IS 400Mbs in one direction or both or aggregate?

Budget is an issue for that size pipe one way for sure.

PTP820C 1+0 may do it at 6Ghz Spatial diversity for sure but pricing has you.

 

 

On 10/31/2016 7:10 PM, Charles Regan wrote:

Hello everyone,

What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over 
seawater... 20k$ budget.

SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.

We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.

How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x for 
space diversity? Splitter?

Should a B5C perform better or worse ?

Charles

 

-- 


 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Josh Luthman]

Well there was only one wrong, so...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 4:01 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> So what you're saying is... two wrongs make a right?
>
> On 10/31/2016 2:30 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Well it was right...then it was swappedthen righted!
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Too many designers miss this important detail.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/2016 11:00 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>>> On an important note, Rev B has the RJ45 facing the correct way - the
>>> tab is out for you to get to it  YAY!
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Powercode Customer Height

[Josh Luthman]

You're not setting customer height.  You're looking at their path profile.

If you want to set a height for say their equipment, you can do a custom
field on the equipment itself.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Steve  wrote:

> Dang that is not good.  I generally don't work on the wireless side but
> you'd think we'd be able to set the customer height.  Around here many
> people have 48ft and in some cases 60ft towers for TV that we use.  It
> makes a lot of difference.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 3:31:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Powercode Customer Height
>
> Are you talking about the path profile tool?  Pretty sure that 20 foot is a
> default for all customers.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Steve  wrote:
>
> > I can't for the life of me find out where in the database it stores the
> > customer height.  When you do an elevation profile it automatically fills
> > in 20ft.  However we have some customers with much larger towers.  So
> some
> > of the elevation profiles are skewed a bit.  Plus we are adding
> > functionality trying to automatically pull gps coords and height from
> > Powercode to insert into the radios (cambium) manually. (among other
> things)
> >
> > Right now the oid's for the lat/long actually show read/write but are not
> > accepting write permissions at the moment even though the settings are
> > correct.  But that is a whole other request I have for Cambium.  But we'd
> > also like to insert the height.  But I can't seem to find anywhere in
> > Powercode to find where you can specify it!
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Adam Moffett]

60% DOD is pretty conservative.  Do you lose power a lot?  Losing power 
at this site is somewhat of a hypothetical event.  A Mack truck on the 
highway wiped out 5 poles and we ran on propane for a whole day.  The 
previous outage was years before, and I don't expect another one for a 
few more years.


...and ideally I'm only on battery for a minute or two while the genny 
gets started.



This was my thinking as well.. With my AGM setups I’m not comfortable 
pushing beyond 60% DOD.. I’m also paying a lot for 10-year rated large 
Ah AGM batteries these days.


*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 2:33 PM
*To:* af 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

Figuring those prices, you're not going to end up too far off from the 
price of the Tesla for the same run time. Tripling the batteries will 
put you up to somewhere around $4500, for basically the same kWh, but 
if you factor in being able to 100% discharge the Tesla setup, you're 
going to need to add a bunch more battery.


I wonder how the life expectancy compares...

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


That's the same link I sent earlier, bro.

$3049 is list priceyou'll pay closer to $2500 - $2600.

On 10/31/2016 3:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

This looks like it:


http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

�

$3409/12000=28.4 cents per watt.�

Not too bad considering there is a battery charger in there.

�

*From:*Adam Moffett

*Sent:*Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

�


http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries
were (I think) $160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not
free, but I don't remember what it cost.� This is only 4800
Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger batteries.�

This doesn't have any built in network monitoring
though.does the Powerwall?

�

On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:

The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS
option now that it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh
for $5500, so would run most of my sites for about 24
hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our
standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is
quite reasonable.

�

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

�

*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 

�

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Gino Villarini]

SAF intergra with 60 ghz channels and some nice 8 ft dishes

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Charles Regan 
wrote:

> 400Mbps in one direction.
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 9:52 PM, "David Milholen"  wrote:
>
>> IS 400Mbs in one direction or both or aggregate?
>>
>> Budget is an issue for that size pipe one way for sure.
>>
>> PTP820C 1+0 may do it at 6Ghz Spatial diversity for sure but pricing has
>> you.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/2016 7:10 PM, Charles Regan wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
>> over seawater... 20k$ budget.
>>
>> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
>> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>>
>> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
>> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>>
>> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
>> for space diversity? Splitter?
>>
>> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

400Mbps in one direction.

On Oct 31, 2016 9:52 PM, "David Milholen"  wrote:

> IS 400Mbs in one direction or both or aggregate?
>
> Budget is an issue for that size pipe one way for sure.
>
> PTP820C 1+0 may do it at 6Ghz Spatial diversity for sure but pricing has
> you.
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 7:10 PM, Charles Regan wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over
> seawater... 20k$ budget.
>
> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>
> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>
> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
> for space diversity? Splitter?
>
> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>
> Charles
>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

1272ft and 347ft

On Oct 31, 2016 9:48 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:

> its doable under certain circumstances, what are your heights on both ends?
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:42 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Your speed/distance/budget is unrealistic
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Cassidy B. Larson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
>>> Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although
>>> seawater is a factor I dunno about
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well here's SAF response:
>>> *My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio
>>> that can achieve your objective for this path.*
>>>
>>> Trango:
>>> *rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a
>>> 3 - 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use
>>> of space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
>>> might be upwards of $50K).*
>>>
>>> I'll ask SIAE...
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>>
 20k?

 SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of
 alfoplus1 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite
 polarities, equal OSPF cost between routers.

 Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.

 Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.



 On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
> over seawater... 20k$ budget.
>
> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>
> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>
> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the
> AF5x for space diversity? Splitter?
>
> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>
> Charles
>


>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Rocket M365

[Mathew Howard]

Yes, the AF3x definitely will do the whole 50mhz, and the Rockets
definitely do not.

On Oct 31, 2016 7:10 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> The AF3X does AFAIK, the M does not.
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 6:10 PM, "Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr." <
> mailing-li...@phxinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if the 3.65 product from UBNT supports the full 3.65
>> band? 3.65-3.70... The data sheet only shows the lower half.
>>
>> Gilbert
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[David Milholen]

IS 400Mbs in one direction or both or aggregate?

Budget is an issue for that size pipe one way for sure.

PTP820C 1+0 may do it at 6Ghz Spatial diversity for sure but pricing has 
you.




On 10/31/2016 7:10 PM, Charles Regan wrote:


Hello everyone,

What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's 
over seawater... 20k$ budget.


SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.

We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.

How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the 
AF5x for space diversity? Splitter?


Should a B5C perform better or worse ?

Charles



--

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

What's a realistic budget?
50k$ ?

On Oct 31, 2016 9:42 PM, "TJ Trout"  wrote:

> Your speed/distance/budget is unrealistic
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Cassidy B. Larson 
> wrote:
>
>> Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
>> Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although seawater
>> is a factor I dunno about
>>
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan  wrote:
>>
>> Well here's SAF response:
>> *My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio
>> that can achieve your objective for this path.*
>>
>> Trango:
>> *rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a
>> 3 - 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use
>> of space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
>> might be upwards of $50K).*
>>
>> I'll ask SIAE...
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>
>>> 20k?
>>>
>>> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of
>>> alfoplus1 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite
>>> polarities, equal OSPF cost between routers.
>>>
>>> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>>>
>>> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello everyone,

 What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
 over seawater... 20k$ budget.

 SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
 Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.

 We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
 The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.

 How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
 for space diversity? Splitter?

 Should a B5C perform better or worse ?

 Charles

>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Gino Villarini]

its doable under certain circumstances, what are your heights on both ends?

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:42 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> Your speed/distance/budget is unrealistic
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Cassidy B. Larson 
> wrote:
>
>> Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
>> Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although seawater
>> is a factor I dunno about
>>
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan  wrote:
>>
>> Well here's SAF response:
>> *My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio
>> that can achieve your objective for this path.*
>>
>> Trango:
>> *rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a
>> 3 - 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use
>> of space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
>> might be upwards of $50K).*
>>
>> I'll ask SIAE...
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>
>>> 20k?
>>>
>>> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of
>>> alfoplus1 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite
>>> polarities, equal OSPF cost between routers.
>>>
>>> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>>>
>>> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello everyone,

 What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
 over seawater... 20k$ budget.

 SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
 Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.

 We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
 The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.

 How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
 for space diversity? Splitter?

 Should a B5C perform better or worse ?

 Charles

>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[TJ Trout]

Your speed/distance/budget is unrealistic

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
> Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although seawater
> is a factor I dunno about
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan  wrote:
>
> Well here's SAF response:
> *My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio
> that can achieve your objective for this path.*
>
> Trango:
> *rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a 3
> - 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use of
> space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
> might be upwards of $50K).*
>
> I'll ask SIAE...
>
> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>
>> 20k?
>>
>> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of
>> alfoplus1 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite
>> polarities, equal OSPF cost between routers.
>>
>> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>>
>> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
>>> over seawater... 20k$ budget.
>>>
>>> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
>>> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>>>
>>> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
>>> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>>>
>>> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
>>> for space diversity? Splitter?
>>>
>>> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Cassidy B. Larson]

Did SAF try 6GHz? Or did they only try 5GHz?
Seems a 2+0 at 6 would probably work at that distance.. although seawater is a 
factor I dunno about


> On Oct 31, 2016, at 18:32, Charles Regan  wrote:
> 
> Well here's SAF response:
> My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio that 
> can achieve your objective for this path.
> 
> Trango:
> rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a 3 - 4 
> 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use of space 
> diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link might be 
> upwards of $50K).
> 
> I'll ask SIAE...
> 
> 
>> On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>> 20k?
>> 
>> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of alfoplus1 
>> 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite polarities, 
>> equal OSPF cost between routers.
>> 
>> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios. 
>> 
>> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan  
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> 
>>> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over 
>>> seawater... 20k$ budget.
>>> 
>>> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
>>> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>>> 
>>> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
>>> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>>> 
>>> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x for 
>>> space diversity? Splitter?
>>> 
>>> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>>> 
>>> Charles
>>> 
>> 

[AFMUG] Cambium 450m

[SmarterBroadband]

Our first 450m should arrive this week.  We plan to replace an existing 450
AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. 

 

However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some
installed and working.

 

Does anyone have 450m up and running.  Would you please share your
experiences and results.

 

Thanks

 

Adam

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

Well here's SAF response:
*My link planning team confirmed SAF does not have a viable 5GHz radio that
can achieve your objective for this path.*

Trango:
*rough calculation suggests that even using space diversity will yield a 3
- 4 'nines' link (predicted reliability) at around 200Mbps FDX.  The use of
space diversity will also add considerably to the cost (a complete link
might be upwards of $50K).*

I'll ask SIAE...

On Oct 31, 2016 9:19 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:

> 20k?
>
> SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of alfoplus1
> 1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite polarities,
> equal OSPF cost between routers.
>
> Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.
>
> Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's
>> over seawater... 20k$ budget.
>>
>> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
>> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>>
>> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
>> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>>
>> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
>> for space diversity? Splitter?
>>
>> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>>
>> Charles
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Eric Kuhnke]

20k?

SIAE AlfoPlus2 6 GHz 1024QAM dual polarity link. Or two pairs of alfoplus1
1024qam (single polarity) radios running in parallel, opposite polarities,
equal OSPF cost between routers.

Or Trango's 1024QAM 6GHz radios.

Why not SAF?  I thought there was a 6 GHz version of the Integra now.



On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Charles Regan 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over
> seawater... 20k$ budget.
>
> SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
> Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.
>
> We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
> The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.
>
> How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x
> for space diversity? Splitter?
>
> Should a B5C perform better or worse ?
>
> Charles
>

Re: [AFMUG] Rocket M365

[Josh Reynolds]

The AF3X does AFAIK, the M does not.

On Oct 31, 2016 6:10 PM, "Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr." <
mailing-li...@phxinternet.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know if the 3.65 product from UBNT supports the full 3.65
> band? 3.65-3.70... The data sheet only shows the lower half.
>
> Gilbert
>
>

[AFMUG] PTP 60 miles 400Mbps

[Charles Regan]

Hello everyone,

What would you guys use for a 60 miles PTP link? 400Mbps. Oh and it's over
seawater... 20k$ budget.

SAF, Trango both said sorry, can't do.
Mimosa B5C with space diversity and 3k$ maybe.

We do have a working AF5x with a 34dbi dish doing 150Mbps aggregate.
The link gets bad sometimes because of ducting/reflection.

How could I use two parabolics dish on different polarity with the AF5x for
space diversity? Splitter?

Should a B5C perform better or worse ?

Charles

Re: [AFMUG] Rocket M365

[George Skorup]

Lower 25MHz is all you get in FCC land. It was never certified for the 
upper 25.


On 10/31/2016 6:10 PM, Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr. wrote:
Does anyone know if the 3.65 product from UBNT supports the full 3.65 
band? 3.65-3.70... The data sheet only shows the lower half.


Gilbert

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Lewis Bergman]

I'll reply only because I'm bored.

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 5:15 PM  wrote:

> Lewis Bergman wrote:
> >>> I rail against these types of projects not because they typically
> fail, which they do,
> >>  That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this
> up with some sources?
> >Do you mind enlightening us with all the tales of success and glory?
>  Excellent deflection, again! That mean it's just something you made up
> then?
>
I guess you ask for facts and toy are not deflecting? Nice.

>
> >>  Could you also shine some light on those federal bailout programs you
> say are paying for all the failures?
> > RUS is federal and has taken the hit for a number of projects, not sure
> on Fiber and I wasn't just referring
> > to fiber. Maybe you are but I wasn't being that narrow.
>   I'm sure RUS has taken some hits on their projects.
>
>   However, that's not the point. RUS loans are applied for in advance of
> starting a project, not after the fact.
>   You wrote that there is a federal bailout program that "they ask for ...
> when they get in over their head."
>   What federal grants or assistance are you referring to, since it can't
> be RUS?
>
Maybe you have difficulty understanding basic economics. If I loam you
money in advance of doing something and you don't pay me I still lose
money. If that lender is the government then the government last money.
Since the government is funded by tax dollars you just got a tax funded
bailout. You didn't pay me back a debt do you ate made while while I am
not. Your refusal to comprehend fundamental concepts is tiring. Mauve
that's is your strategy.

> >>> Let the free market system take care of everything else.
> >> How about them that the free market does not serve?
> > Who cares? Really...who cares.
>   That's not very neighborly of you.
>
Maybe not but I really don't care. I actually think making my neighbor pay
fits own way is better for my neighbor than paying it for him.

>   You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it totally ignores
> second order effects.
>   Moving isn't free, neither for the individual nor for society. Then
> there's the people that just can't move.
>
Do you have facts to back that up? And if you just can't move and you can't
get Internet you obviously don't need it.

>
>   Marginalizing people isn't very beneficial to society either, not even
> if you just count dollars and cents.

Can you quote Any factual basis for your opinion?

> A lot of things require or are made possible by broadband. I'd rather have
> my tax dollars fund RUS loans or the like than use them for unemployment
> benefits.
>
I would like to see you quote sources for the innuendo you purpose as fact.
You are implying that the lack of Internet prevents unemployment in areas
that previously had none of insufficient speed?

I Persian know several it managers that run large corporate networks with
thousands of employees. They both only have 20 mbs by choice due to the
boost in productivity to locking down all but business traffic. He stated
that almost 3% of broadband requirements before the lock down was business
related.

So while high speed Internet does assist in some ways it is neither an
employment booster or productivity enhancer generally speaking. Want facts,
search the studies as there are many of broadband Internet and its effect
on productivity in the workplace.

  So, would you rather spend your hard earned tax dollars of building new
> infrastructure so that the people that had to move can have needed services
> or would you permit broadbandless people to pay for their own damn
> internet, even if they have to bond for it locally?
>
I have said before if a local group wants to buy into some bs go for it. If
that gets rolled into some bailout if someplace like Detroit where the Feds
step in then I would not be in favor of that. I am not saying Detroit had
broadband loans it was an example of a municipal bail out.

  According to the FCC, 1.4 million have no broadband available, not even
> satellite. 16 million people have satellite with 4M/1M or less available.
> There are not insignificant numbers.
>

I think those are very insignificant. That is less than 1/2 percent. You
seem to be assuming that those people both want and need more. Maybe you
can't live with 25mbs but they likely can. And it is doubtful they will
suddenly make $250k a year just because their access improves.

> And to be really honest, it seems like a large part of the customer base
> in the areas I evaluated were wholly
> > disinterested in fiber.
>   I'm fine with excluding areas where there is no demand. I'm not fine
> with excluding areas where there is both demand and willingness to pay, but
> no private actor.
>
On that we can agree. Wow. World peace. The only point of contention is
that no private solution would exist. But that seems close enough to me.

>
> Jared
>

[AFMUG] Rocket M365

[Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr.]

Does anyone know if the 3.65 product from UBNT supports the full 3.65 
band? 3.65-3.70... The data sheet only shows the lower half.


Gilbert

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Peter Kranz]

This was my thinking as well.. With my AGM setups I’m not comfortable pushing 
beyond 60% DOD.. I’m also paying a lot for 10-year rated large Ah AGM batteries 
these days.

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 2:33 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

 

Figuring those prices, you're not going to end up too far off from the price of 
the Tesla for the same run time. Tripling the batteries will put you up to 
somewhere around $4500, for basically the same kWh, but if you factor in being 
able to 100% discharge the Tesla setup, you're going to need to add a bunch 
more battery.

I wonder how the life expectancy compares...

 

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Adam Moffett  > wrote:

That's the same link I sent earlier, bro.

$3049 is list priceyou'll pay closer to $2500 - $2600.

 

On 10/31/2016 3:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

This looks like it:

http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

�

$3409/12000=28.4 cents per watt.� 

Not too bad considering there is a battery charger in there.

�

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

�

http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I think) $160 
each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't remember what it 
cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger 
batteries.� 

This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the Powerwall?

�

 

On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:

The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that it 
has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of my sites 
for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our standard AGM 
cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.

�

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

�

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100  
Mobile: 510-207-  
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

�

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Chuck McCown]

I personally know of one telco that is in bankruptcy because the RUS will 
not bail them out.  They could not make their loan payments, they filed 
chapter 11.  The RUS is hoping someone will buy the telco that will make the 
payments.  Otherwise it will be sold at auction.


-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 4:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

Lewis Bergman wrote:
I rail against these types of projects not because they typically fail, 
which they do,
 That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this 
up with some sources?

Do you mind enlightening us with all the tales of success and glory?

Excellent deflection, again! That mean it's just something you made up then?


 Could you also shine some light on those federal bailout programs you 
say are paying for all the failures?
RUS is federal and has taken the hit for a number of projects, not sure on 
Fiber and I wasn't just referring

to fiber. Maybe you are but I wasn't being that narrow.

 I'm sure RUS has taken some hits on their projects.

 However, that's not the point. RUS loans are applied for in advance of 
starting a project, not after the fact.
 You wrote that there is a federal bailout program that "they ask for ... 
when they get in over their head."
 What federal grants or assistance are you referring to, since it can't be 
RUS?



Let the free market system take care of everything else.

How about them that the free market does not serve?

Who cares? Really...who cares.

 That's not very neighborly of you.

 You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it totally ignores second 
order effects.
 Moving isn't free, neither for the individual nor for society. Then 
there's the people that just can't move.


 Marginalizing people isn't very beneficial to society either, not even if 
you just count dollars and cents. A lot of things require or are made 
possible by broadband. I'd rather have my tax dollars fund RUS loans or the 
like than use them for unemployment benefits.


 So, would you rather spend your hard earned tax dollars of building new 
infrastructure so that the people that had to move can have needed services 
or would you permit broadbandless people to pay for their own damn internet, 
even if they have to bond for it locally?


 According to the FCC, 1.4 million have no broadband available, not even 
satellite. 16 million people have satellite with 4M/1M or less available. 
There are not insignificant numbers.



And to be really honest, it seems like a large part of the customer base 
in the areas I evaluated were wholly

disinterested in fiber.
 I'm fine with excluding areas where there is no demand. I'm not fine with 
excluding areas where there is both demand and willingness to pay, but no 
private actor.



Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[fiberrun]

Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>> I rail against these types of projects not because they typically fail, 
>>> which they do,
>>  That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this up 
>>with some sources?
>Do you mind enlightening us with all the tales of success and glory?
 Excellent deflection, again! That mean it's just something you made up then?

  
>>  Could you also shine some light on those federal bailout programs you say 
>>are paying for all the failures?
> RUS is federal and has taken the hit for a number of projects, not sure on 
> Fiber and I wasn't just referring
> to fiber. Maybe you are but I wasn't being that narrow. 
  I'm sure RUS has taken some hits on their projects. 

  However, that's not the point. RUS loans are applied for in advance of 
starting a project, not after the fact. 
  You wrote that there is a federal bailout program that "they ask for ... when 
they get in over their head."
  What federal grants or assistance are you referring to, since it can't be RUS?

>>> Let the free market system take care of everything else.  
>> How about them that the free market does not serve?
> Who cares? Really...who cares.
  That's not very neighborly of you.

  You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it totally ignores second 
order effects. 
  Moving isn't free, neither for the individual nor for society. Then there's 
the people that just can't move. 

  Marginalizing people isn't very beneficial to society either, not even if you 
just count dollars and cents. A lot of things require or are made possible by 
broadband. I'd rather have my tax dollars fund RUS loans or the like than use 
them for unemployment benefits. 

  So, would you rather spend your hard earned tax dollars of building new 
infrastructure so that the people that had to move can have needed services or 
would you permit broadbandless people to pay for their own damn internet, even 
if they have to bond for it locally?

  According to the FCC, 1.4 million have no broadband available, not even 
satellite. 16 million people have satellite with 4M/1M or less available. There 
are not insignificant numbers.  


> And to be really honest, it seems like a large part of the customer base in 
> the areas I evaluated were wholly
> disinterested in fiber.
  I'm fine with excluding areas where there is no demand. I'm not fine with 
excluding areas where there is both demand and willingness to pay, but no 
private actor. 


Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Lewis Bergman]

I am definitely guilty of lack of empathy. That kind of reminds me of a
development I was involved in 18 months ago. Most all the people adjacent
to the land we were developing didn't want anything on it. Really? You
can't afford to buy it but you think the one who owns should be forced to
provide you with a view of a field?

I read about some "conservationist" who built a house next to some wild
area and once that was completed, spent the next five years screaming about
halting development that was going to kill the earth.

I think the earth will survive in spite of whatever we do to it; and one
day it will be difficult to tell we were ever here.

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 4:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I live in a semi-rural area.  Used to be rural until land developers added
> subdivisions.  I was one of those developers.
>
> Now, we have city folks coming out, buying a 5 acre ranchette and are
> complaining about farming noises, & ranching smells.  They don’t  think you
> should have the right to cut hay at 3 in the morning.
>
> Now there is a push to ban farm animals from the county...  One old
> rancher got reported for leaving his dogs outside in the winter.  Those
> dogs had never been in the house in their entire lives.
>
> Odd study in human behavior.  I think it all boils down to selfishness and
> lack of empathy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 3:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber
>
>
> Who cares? Really...who cares. They chose to live somewhere without
> internet. You want internet, move somewhere with it. Your job isn't there?
> OK, guess you get to use internet when you visit the kids in the big city.
> So you don't have internet. Who gives a damn? I am pretty sure oxygen still
> flows without it and nobody is going to die.
>
>
> This. There are upsides and downsides to living in the country. My
> experience is that people who are truely rural aren't willing to pay what
> it takes to deliver modern internet service, or they simply don't care. I'm
> tired of this entitlement BS.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Robert]

Very similar to Arizona around Chandler with all the milk cow farms.. 
Then the retirement communities were built..   The smell on a calm 
morning was memorable..   But in that case the farmers told the retirees 
to stuff it..   Until the land was so valuable that the farmers made 
more moving...


On 10/31/16 2:35 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I live in a semi-rural area.  Used to be rural until land developers
added subdivisions.  I was one of those developers.

Now, we have city folks coming out, buying a 5 acre ranchette and are
complaining about farming noises, & ranching smells.  They don’t  think
you should have the right to cut hay at 3 in the morning.

Now there is a push to ban farm animals from the county...  One old
rancher got reported for leaving his dogs outside in the winter.  Those
dogs had never been in the house in their entire lives.

Odd study in human behavior.  I think it all boils down to selfishness
and lack of empathy.



*From:* Jason McKemie
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 3:30 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber


Who cares? Really...who cares. They chose to live somewhere without
internet. You want internet, move somewhere with it. Your job isn't
there? OK, guess you get to use internet when you visit the kids in
the big city. So you don't have internet. Who gives a damn? I am
pretty sure oxygen still flows without it and nobody is going to die.


This. There are upsides and downsides to living in the country. My
experience is that people who are truely rural aren't willing to pay
what it takes to deliver modern internet service, or they simply don't
care. I'm tired of this entitlement BS.

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Mike Hammett]

You can't fix stupid. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 4:35:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber 




I live in a semi-rural area. Used to be rural until land developers added 
subdivisions. I was one of those developers. 

Now, we have city folks coming out, buying a 5 acre ranchette and are 
complaining about farming noises, & ranching smells. They don’t think you 
should have the right to cut hay at 3 in the morning. 

Now there is a push to ban farm animals from the county... One old rancher got 
reported for leaving his dogs outside in the winter. Those dogs had never been 
in the house in their entire lives. 

Odd study in human behavior. I think it all boils down to selfishness and lack 
of empathy. 






From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 3:30 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber 






Who cares? Really...who cares. They chose to live somewhere without internet. 
You want internet, move somewhere with it. Your job isn't there? OK, guess you 
get to use internet when you visit the kids in the big city. So you don't have 
internet. Who gives a damn? I am pretty sure oxygen still flows without it and 
nobody is going to die. 




This. There are upsides and downsides to living in the country. My experience 
is that people who are truely rural aren't willing to pay what it takes to 
deliver modern internet service, or they simply don't care. I'm tired of this 
entitlement BS. 

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Chuck McCown]

I live in a semi-rural area.  Used to be rural until land developers added 
subdivisions.  I was one of those developers.  

Now, we have city folks coming out, buying a 5 acre ranchette and are 
complaining about farming noises, & ranching smells.  They don’t  think you 
should have the right to cut hay at 3 in the morning.

Now there is a push to ban farm animals from the county...  One old rancher got 
reported for leaving his dogs outside in the winter.  Those dogs had never been 
in the house in their entire lives.  

Odd study in human behavior.  I think it all boils down to selfishness and lack 
of empathy.  



From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 3:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

  Who cares? Really...who cares. They chose to live somewhere without internet. 
You want internet, move somewhere with it. Your job isn't there? OK, guess you 
get to use internet when you visit the kids in the big city. So you don't have 
internet. Who gives a damn? I am pretty sure oxygen still flows without it and 
nobody is going to die.


This. There are upsides and downsides to living in the country. My experience 
is that people who are truely rural aren't willing to pay what it takes to 
deliver modern internet service, or they simply don't care. I'm tired of this 
entitlement BS.

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Mathew Howard]

Figuring those prices, you're not going to end up too far off from the
price of the Tesla for the same run time. Tripling the batteries will put
you up to somewhere around $4500, for basically the same kWh, but if you
factor in being able to 100% discharge the Tesla setup, you're going to
need to add a bunch more battery.

I wonder how the life expectancy compares...

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> That's the same link I sent earlier, bro.
>
> $3049 is list priceyou'll pay closer to $2500 - $2600.
>
> On 10/31/2016 3:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> This looks like it:
> http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-
> 120-240vac.html
> �
> $3409/12000=28.4 cents per watt.�
> Not too bad considering there is a battery charger in there.
> �
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
> �
>
> http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-
> 120-240vac.html
>
> This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I think)
> $160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't remember what
> it cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger
> batteries.�
>
> This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the
> Powerwall?
>
> �
>
> On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:
>
> The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that
> it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of
> my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our
> standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.
>
> �
>
> https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
>
> �
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> �
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Jason McKemie]

>
> Who cares? Really...who cares. They chose to live somewhere without
> internet. You want internet, move somewhere with it. Your job isn't there?
> OK, guess you get to use internet when you visit the kids in the big city.
> So you don't have internet. Who gives a damn? I am pretty sure oxygen still
> flows without it and nobody is going to die.
>

This. There are upsides and downsides to living in the country. My
experience is that people who are truely rural aren't willing to pay what
it takes to deliver modern internet service, or they simply don't care. I'm
tired of this entitlement BS.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Jaime Solorza]

He actually said, para-translating, " no there are no issues with  my
 businesses, they are all so clean they shine, squeaky clean...
he used "brillan ..." ...
back in my Tornillo ISD gig days, the local laundry mat place was busted as
a drug money laundering operation along with a bakery and tractor supplies
parts place all owned by same family.


Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> What was it? "Not even a hint of corruption"
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 3:23 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> " nope..all my businesses are squeaky clean, " quoting an
>> ex-politician across border years back
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Wireless Systems Architect
>> 915-861-1390 <(915)%20861-1390>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>
>> That sounds like money laundering...
>>
>> On 10/31/16 1:15 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> You could probably have a separate staffing company for your payroll
>> employees.  Pay it in cash and they could probably do normal banking.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 2:13 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>>
>> I saw another in depth story on one of the news channels that was very
>> close to your gold story. I assume they actually did convert some of the
>> cash assets to precious metals for storage reasons. They showed video of
>> the huge safes they had at each of their three very large warehouse
>> locations filled with cash.
>> Due to federal banking laws no bank would take their money so they were
>> forced to pay all salaries and expenses in cash. They didn't discuss
>> taxation but I guess they could walk into an IRS center with a briefcase
>> full of cash. It does say for all debts still right? ... uh yep, still
>> there.
>>
>> Anyway, it was very interesting. I met a woman at an airport bar a couple
>> years ago that said she made good money setting up pot dispensaries around
>> the country. She said there was more money in that than running one and
>> that California (where she lived) made it to difficult to run one and there
>> were to many already.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Yeah I guess the banks get crosswise with federal regulators if they
>> knowingly do business with a pot operation.
>>
>> So, I guess the pot operators all need really big car washes.
>>
>> *From:* Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:10 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>>
>> So my facts may be a little wrong, cuz I heard this from a guy who heard
>> it from a guy.  Although there is profit to be had, it's hard to get at.
>> He described a pot sales operation in Colorado, where although it is legal
>> to sell it in the state, it is illegal on the national level, so he can't
>> claim any of that income at the federal level.  So all money is converted
>> into Gold, and physically stored.  He's guarded by all Ex-military guys.
>>
>> On 10/31/2016 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I retire.
>> Gardening is easy, right?
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>>
>>
>> 60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law in
>> Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 36
>> acres. He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. Each
>> plant has an RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that they also
>> employed what looked like armed guards.
>>
>> No room required. All out in the open air.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from the
>> grow tent to the grow room.
>>
>> (Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>>
>>
>> Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested
>> in.  I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m blaming
>> it on you guys.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and
>> make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Lewis Bergman]

What was it? "Not even a hint of corruption"

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 3:23 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> " nope..all my businesses are squeaky clean, " quoting an
> ex-politician across border years back
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390 <(915)%20861-1390>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>
> That sounds like money laundering...
>
> On 10/31/16 1:15 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> You could probably have a separate staffing company for your payroll
> employees.  Pay it in cash and they could probably do normal banking.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 2:13 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>
> I saw another in depth story on one of the news channels that was very
> close to your gold story. I assume they actually did convert some of the
> cash assets to precious metals for storage reasons. They showed video of
> the huge safes they had at each of their three very large warehouse
> locations filled with cash.
> Due to federal banking laws no bank would take their money so they were
> forced to pay all salaries and expenses in cash. They didn't discuss
> taxation but I guess they could walk into an IRS center with a briefcase
> full of cash. It does say for all debts still right? ... uh yep, still
> there.
>
> Anyway, it was very interesting. I met a woman at an airport bar a couple
> years ago that said she made good money setting up pot dispensaries around
> the country. She said there was more money in that than running one and
> that California (where she lived) made it to difficult to run one and there
> were to many already.
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Yeah I guess the banks get crosswise with federal regulators if they
> knowingly do business with a pot operation.
>
> So, I guess the pot operators all need really big car washes.
>
> *From:* Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>
> So my facts may be a little wrong, cuz I heard this from a guy who heard
> it from a guy.  Although there is profit to be had, it's hard to get at.
> He described a pot sales operation in Colorado, where although it is legal
> to sell it in the state, it is illegal on the national level, so he can't
> claim any of that income at the federal level.  So all money is converted
> into Gold, and physically stored.  He's guarded by all Ex-military guys.
>
> On 10/31/2016 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I retire.
> Gardening is easy, right?
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>
>
> 60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law in
> Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 36
> acres. He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. Each
> plant has an RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that they also
> employed what looked like armed guards.
>
> No room required. All out in the open air.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from the
> grow tent to the grow room.
>
> (Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>
>
> Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested in.
> I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m blaming it
> on you guys.
>
>
>
> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html
>
>
>
> Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and
> make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Jaime Solorza]

" nope..all my businesses are squeaky clean, " quoting an ex-politician
across border years back

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Robert  wrote:

> That sounds like money laundering...
>
> On 10/31/16 1:15 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> You could probably have a separate staffing company for your payroll
> employees.  Pay it in cash and they could probably do normal banking.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 2:13 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>
> I saw another in depth story on one of the news channels that was very
> close to your gold story. I assume they actually did convert some of the
> cash assets to precious metals for storage reasons. They showed video of
> the huge safes they had at each of their three very large warehouse
> locations filled with cash.
> Due to federal banking laws no bank would take their money so they were
> forced to pay all salaries and expenses in cash. They didn't discuss
> taxation but I guess they could walk into an IRS center with a briefcase
> full of cash. It does say for all debts still right? ... uh yep, still
> there.
>
> Anyway, it was very interesting. I met a woman at an airport bar a couple
> years ago that said she made good money setting up pot dispensaries around
> the country. She said there was more money in that than running one and
> that California (where she lived) made it to difficult to run one and there
> were to many already.
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Yeah I guess the banks get crosswise with federal regulators if they
>> knowingly do business with a pot operation.
>>
>> So, I guess the pot operators all need really big car washes.
>>
>> *From:* Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:10 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>>
>> So my facts may be a little wrong, cuz I heard this from a guy who heard
>> it from a guy.  Although there is profit to be had, it's hard to get at.
>> He described a pot sales operation in Colorado, where although it is legal
>> to sell it in the state, it is illegal on the national level, so he can't
>> claim any of that income at the federal level.  So all money is converted
>> into Gold, and physically stored.  He's guarded by all Ex-military guys.
>>
>> On 10/31/2016 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I retire.
>> Gardening is easy, right?
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>>
>>
>> 60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law in
>> Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 36
>> acres. He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. Each
>> plant has an RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that they also
>> employed what looked like armed guards.
>>
>> No room required. All out in the open air.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from the
>> grow tent to the grow room.
>>
>> (Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>>
>>
>> Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested
>> in.  I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m blaming
>> it on you guys.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and
>> make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Robert]

That sounds like money laundering...


On 10/31/16 1:15 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
You could probably have a separate staffing company for your payroll 
employees.  Pay it in cash and they could probably do normal banking.

*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 2:13 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
I saw another in depth story on one of the news channels that was very 
close to your gold story. I assume they actually did convert some of 
the cash assets to precious metals for storage reasons. They showed 
video of the huge safes they had at each of their three very large 
warehouse locations filled with cash.
Due to federal banking laws no bank would take their money so they 
were forced to pay all salaries and expenses in cash. They didn't 
discuss taxation but I guess they could walk into an IRS center with a 
briefcase full of cash. It does say for all debts still right? ... uh 
yep, still there.
Anyway, it was very interesting. I met a woman at an airport bar a 
couple years ago that said she made good money setting up pot 
dispensaries around the country. She said there was more money in that 
than running one and that California (where she lived) made it to 
difficult to run one and there were to many already.

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Yeah I guess the banks get crosswise with federal regulators if
they knowingly do business with a pot operation.
So, I guess the pot operators all need really big car washes.
*From:* Nate Burke
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:10 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
So my facts may be a little wrong, cuz I heard this from a guy who
heard it from a guy.  Although there is profit to be had, it's
hard to get at. He described a pot sales operation in Colorado,
where although it is legal to sell it in the state, it is illegal
on the national level, so he can't claim any of that income at the
federal level.  So all money is converted into Gold, and
physically stored.  He's guarded by all Ex-military guys.

On 10/31/2016 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I
retire.  Gardening is easy, right?
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot
law in Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an
operation on 36 acres. He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20
million per year. Each plant has an RFID tag on it. Interesting
stuff. I noticed that they also employed what looked like armed
guards.

No room required. All out in the open air.

bp


On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation
from the grow tent to the grow room.
(Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be
interested in.  I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on
this list, so I’m blaming it on you guys.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html

Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work
environment, and make a little money on the side. Growing
tomatoes, of course.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Jaime Solorza]

don't criticizelegalize.in my best Jamaican accent


Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> You could probably have a separate staffing company for your payroll
> employees.  Pay it in cash and they could probably do normal banking.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 2:13 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>
> I saw another in depth story on one of the news channels that was very
> close to your gold story. I assume they actually did convert some of the
> cash assets to precious metals for storage reasons. They showed video of
> the huge safes they had at each of their three very large warehouse
> locations filled with cash.
> Due to federal banking laws no bank would take their money so they were
> forced to pay all salaries and expenses in cash. They didn't discuss
> taxation but I guess they could walk into an IRS center with a briefcase
> full of cash. It does say for all debts still right? ... uh yep, still
> there.
>
> Anyway, it was very interesting. I met a woman at an airport bar a couple
> years ago that said she made good money setting up pot dispensaries around
> the country. She said there was more money in that than running one and
> that California (where she lived) made it to difficult to run one and there
> were to many already.
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Yeah I guess the banks get crosswise with federal regulators if they
>> knowingly do business with a pot operation.
>>
>> So, I guess the pot operators all need really big car washes.
>>
>> *From:* Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:10 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>>
>> So my facts may be a little wrong, cuz I heard this from a guy who heard
>> it from a guy.  Although there is profit to be had, it's hard to get at.
>> He described a pot sales operation in Colorado, where although it is legal
>> to sell it in the state, it is illegal on the national level, so he can't
>> claim any of that income at the federal level.  So all money is converted
>> into Gold, and physically stored.  He's guarded by all Ex-military guys.
>>
>> On 10/31/2016 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I retire.
>> Gardening is easy, right?
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>>
>>
>> 60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law in
>> Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 36
>> acres. He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. Each
>> plant has an RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that they also
>> employed what looked like armed guards.
>>
>> No room required. All out in the open air.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from the
>> grow tent to the grow room.
>>
>> (Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>>
>>
>> Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested
>> in.  I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m blaming
>> it on you guys.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and
>> make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Chuck McCown]

You could probably have a separate staffing company for your payroll employees. 
 Pay it in cash and they could probably do normal banking.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 2:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

I saw another in depth story on one of the news channels that was very close to 
your gold story. I assume they actually did convert some of the cash assets to 
precious metals for storage reasons. They showed video of the huge safes they 
had at each of their three very large warehouse locations filled with cash.  
Due to federal banking laws no bank would take their money so they were forced 
to pay all salaries and expenses in cash. They didn't discuss taxation but I 
guess they could walk into an IRS center with a briefcase full of cash. It does 
say for all debts still right? ... uh yep, still there.

Anyway, it was very interesting. I met a woman at an airport bar a couple years 
ago that said she made good money setting up pot dispensaries around the 
country. She said there was more money in that than running one and that 
California (where she lived) made it to difficult to run one and there were to 
many already.

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Yeah I guess the banks get crosswise with federal regulators if they 
knowingly do business with a pot operation.  

  So, I guess the pot operators all need really big car washes.  

  From: Nate Burke 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:10 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

  So my facts may be a little wrong, cuz I heard this from a guy who heard it 
from a guy.  Although there is profit to be had, it's hard to get at.  He 
described a pot sales operation in Colorado, where although it is legal to sell 
it in the state, it is illegal on the national level, so he can't claim any of 
that income at the federal level.  So all money is converted into Gold, and 
physically stored.  He's guarded by all Ex-military guys.  


  On 10/31/2016 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I retire.  
Gardening is easy, right?

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law in 
Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 36 acres. 
He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. Each plant has an 
RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that they also employed what 
looked like armed guards.

No room required. All out in the open air.



bp


On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from the 
grow tent to the grow room.  

  (Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

  Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested in. 
 I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m blaming it on 
you guys.



  https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html



  Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and 
make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Lewis Bergman]

I saw another in depth story on one of the news channels that was very
close to your gold story. I assume they actually did convert some of the
cash assets to precious metals for storage reasons. They showed video of
the huge safes they had at each of their three very large warehouse
locations filled with cash.
Due to federal banking laws no bank would take their money so they were
forced to pay all salaries and expenses in cash. They didn't discuss
taxation but I guess they could walk into an IRS center with a briefcase
full of cash. It does say for all debts still right? ... uh yep, still
there.

Anyway, it was very interesting. I met a woman at an airport bar a couple
years ago that said she made good money setting up pot dispensaries around
the country. She said there was more money in that than running one and
that California (where she lived) made it to difficult to run one and there
were to many already.

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Yeah I guess the banks get crosswise with federal regulators if they
> knowingly do business with a pot operation.
>
> So, I guess the pot operators all need really big car washes.
>
> *From:* Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>
> So my facts may be a little wrong, cuz I heard this from a guy who heard
> it from a guy.  Although there is profit to be had, it's hard to get at.
> He described a pot sales operation in Colorado, where although it is legal
> to sell it in the state, it is illegal on the national level, so he can't
> claim any of that income at the federal level.  So all money is converted
> into Gold, and physically stored.  He's guarded by all Ex-military guys.
>
> On 10/31/2016 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I retire.
> Gardening is easy, right?
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>
>
> 60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law in
> Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 36
> acres. He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. Each
> plant has an RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that they also
> employed what looked like armed guards.
>
> No room required. All out in the open air.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from the
> grow tent to the grow room.
>
> (Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?
>
>
> Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested in.
> I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m blaming it
> on you guys.
>
>
>
> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html
>
>
>
> Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and
> make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Seth Mattinen]

On 10/31/16 11:14, Peter Kranz wrote:

The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now
that it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run
most of my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for
14kWh of our standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is
quite reasonable.



The fine print says installation starts at $1k and the agreement says 
Tesla or a certified installer will install it for you. So maybe you 
can't just buy it standalone?


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Lewis Bergman]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 11:23 AM  wrote:

> Lewis Bergman wrote:
> > I rail against these types of projects not because they typically fail,
> which they do,
>   That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this
> up with some sources?
>
Do you mind enlightening us with all the tales of success and glory?

>
>   Could you also shine some light on those federal bailout programs you
> say are paying for all the failures?
>
RUS is federal and has taken the hit for a number of projects, not sure on
Fiber and I wasn't just referring to fiber. Maybe you are but I wasn't
being that narrow.

>
> > Let the free market system take care of everything else.
>   How about them that the free market does not serve?
>
Who cares? Really...who cares. They chose to live somewhere without
internet. You want internet, move somewhere with it. Your job isn't there?
OK, guess you get to use internet when you visit the kids in the big city.
So you don't have internet. Who gives a damn? I am pretty sure oxygen still
flows without it and nobody is going to die.

>
>   You make a coherent argument about municipalities focusing on core
> services, but it does not address them that are left out in the cold.
>
> Seriously, I don't care. And to be really honest, it seems like a large
part of the customer base in the areas I evaluated were wholly
disinterested in fiber. I could not believe it myself but they had little
interest. Then as I explained it would actually cost a few dollars more to
get faster service over fiber than the $30 they paid now they couldn't
express their disinterest fast enough or drone on long enough about how it
was already way more costly than it was worth. Maybe some areas have huge
swaths of urban blight or suburban hinterlands that have fast computers and
Roku that desperately need internet. If it is needed so badly, pay for it.
If the demand was so evident some hungry carrier would come in and install
it.

Since we are on the subject of core services, you should look into how many
of these same areas are not actually covered by those same cores services.
I know thee were a number of properties when I was mayor that we de-annexed
because we could not provide the services required in the allotted two
years. It is quite common for cities to fail to provide such services but
less so that they let their citizens opt out of paying the taxes.

But thanks so much for your compliment on my coherency. I was beginning to
lose sleep over your low opinion of my mental faculties.

> Jared
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[George Skorup]

So what you're saying is... two wrongs make a right?

On 10/31/2016 2:30 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Well it was right...then it was swappedthen righted!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Bill Prince > wrote:


Too many designers miss this important detail.


bp



On 10/31/2016 11:00 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

On an important note, Rev B has the RJ45 facing the correct
way - the tab is out for you to get to it YAY!

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Chuck McCown]

Ha, so quick to read, so quick to forget

I honestly did not notice the link.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

That's the same link I sent earlier, bro.

$3049 is list priceyou'll pay closer to $2500 - $2600.




On 10/31/2016 3:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  This looks like it:
  http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html
  �
  $3409/12000=28.4 cents per watt.� 
  Not too bad considering there is a battery charger in there.
  �
  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
  �
  http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

  This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I think) 
$160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't remember what it 
cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger 
batteries.� 


  This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the 
Powerwall?


  �



  On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:

The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that 
it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of my 
sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our standard 
AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.

�

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

�

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

�

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Chuck McCown]

OK, telsa coil is in.

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

On 10/31/16 12:15, Cameron Crum wrote:

I'm just curious if you actually work with test tubes and pipettes when
designing surge protectors? Or is that just to make it look all "sciency"?



Put in a picture of a Tesla coil. 

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Adam Moffett]

That's the same link I sent earlier, bro.

$3049 is list priceyou'll pay closer to $2500 - $2600.


On 10/31/2016 3:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

This looks like it:
http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html
$3409/12000=28.4 cents per watt.
Not too bad considering there is a battery charger in there.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I 
think) $160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't 
remember what it cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to 
add more/bigger batteries.�


This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the 
Powerwall?



On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:


The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now 
that it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would 
run most of my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs 
for 14kWh of our standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price 
is quite reasonable.


�

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

�

*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

�

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Chuck McCown]

This looks like it:
http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

$3409/12000=28.4 cents per watt.  
Not too bad considering there is a battery charger in there.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I think) $160 
each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't remember what it 
cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger 
batteries.� 


This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the Powerwall?






On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:

  The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that it 
has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of my sites 
for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our standard AGM 
cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.

  �

  https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

  �

  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

  �

Re: [AFMUG] Powercode Customer Height

[Steve]

Dang that is not good.  I generally don't work on the wireless side but you'd 
think we'd be able to set the customer height.  Around here many people have 
48ft and in some cases 60ft towers for TV that we use.  It makes a lot of 
difference.  

- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 3:31:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Powercode Customer Height

Are you talking about the path profile tool?  Pretty sure that 20 foot is a
default for all customers.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Steve  wrote:

> I can't for the life of me find out where in the database it stores the
> customer height.  When you do an elevation profile it automatically fills
> in 20ft.  However we have some customers with much larger towers.  So some
> of the elevation profiles are skewed a bit.  Plus we are adding
> functionality trying to automatically pull gps coords and height from
> Powercode to insert into the radios (cambium) manually. (among other things)
>
> Right now the oid's for the lat/long actually show read/write but are not
> accepting write permissions at the moment even though the settings are
> correct.  But that is a whole other request I have for Cambium.  But we'd
> also like to insert the height.  But I can't seem to find anywhere in
> Powercode to find where you can specify it!
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Chuck McCown]

Not sure I still have any of those sondes around.  The potting looked like 
beeswax in color.  Hard plastic.  Not brittle.  
Tried:
Acetone
Gasoline
MEK
Paint thinner
Paint remover
Alcohol
Xylene 
Water
Propylene
Freon
Mold cleaner
trichlorobenzine (or whatever dry cleaning fluid used to be)
Strong acids
Strong bases

Tough stuff.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

I’ve had a mason jar labelled “M-Pyrol” in my basement since around 1985 that I 
got from a vendor for dissolving the potting compound on thickfilm hybrid 
circuits.  Probably not good anymore, not sure how to dispose of it.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 2:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

 

Yeah, better than a photo of my mug.

 

Actually there have been a few times when I did work with test tubes.

Trying to melt off the potting compound from the transmitter used in horizontal 
directional drilling machines.

I never did find a solvent or other compound that would dissolve that plastic.  

 

From: Cameron Crum 

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:15 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

 

I'm just curious if you actually work with test tubes and pipettes when 
designing surge protectors? Or is that just to make it look all "sciency"?

 

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Got it, thanks.

  I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other 
devices.
  I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never done 
a web page before where I worried about all the devices.

  -Original Message- From: Larry Smith
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

  Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
  "the response was from the group was" probably should be
  "the response from the group was"...

  -- 
  Larry Smith
  lesm...@ecsis.net

  On Mon October 31 2016 14:00, Chuck McCown wrote:

A good friend of mine makes a good living as a marketing consultant to
folks doing online sales etc.  I have hired him to consult a few times over
the years.  Lately he said that I need other content, a blog or social
media or something that provides expert content.  He says that people need
to feel that you are an authoritative source of info for whatever crap you
are trying to sell.

So based on the good advice always received here, I used WIX to do what I
think he was telling me to do. But now I am totally sick of looking at it.
I think the first effort contains some useful stuff, but it doesn’t really
matter what I think.

If y’all could be kind enough to take a look and tell me how to make it
better I would appreciate it. I tried to stick to my AnimalFarm doctor
science theme...

www.surge-protection.org 

   

 

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Adam Moffett]

Oh, I think we added a ground wire to the sub panel after this picture 
was taken.  The inverter/charger only sends hot and neutral to the sub 
panel.



On 10/31/2016 3:35 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Yeah it charges whenever A/C input is present.� It has a 5 stage 
charger I think.� The manual has a lot of detail on that.


We got it from some vendor on Amazon.

The biggest drawback in my mind is there's no network connectivity.�


On 10/31/2016 3:29 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Does the inverter charge the batts?� I presume so.�
Where did you get the inverter?
�
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:26 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
�

I ran 6/3 armored with ground between each device.� There are 1/2" 
knockouts on the connection box on the inverter/charger so I bought a 
couple of BX connectors.� It comes with romex type clamps.I 
used armored because I don't think it would be legit to run Romex on 
top of a finished wall.


The inverter/charger input needs 240v so it gets hot+hot+ground.� 
The output is hot+hot+neutral to the subpanel.� The transfer switch 
"Mains" connection is actually coming from a 50a breaker in the main 
panel.� I just removed the ground/neutral bond and it works fine as 
a subpanel.� So we now have color coded outlets on the wall with 
White outlets being gen+battery protected and Grey outlets being 
unprotected (straight from the main panel).


I don't know exactly what the response time is for switching from 
charger to inverter, but when I flip off the breaker nothing 
rebootsso it's quick enough for me.� When the generator starts, 
this switches back to charger mode after a 15 second delay.


I can't wrap my head around how this works with the inverter, 
generator, and utility power all being a different phase; but I know 
it does work.


This does have an LVD which I know you don't like, but there's a 
jumper to select whether you favor more runtime or more battery 
life.� You can't disable the LVD completely; the jumper just 
changes the cutoff voltage.


Also, be aware that the 12KW model weighs over 200lbs.� Definitely 
need two people to install it.


�

�

On 10/31/2016 3:02 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

12 kw?� Sine wave?
How is it wired in with the transfer switch and mains power?
�
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
�

http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I 
think) $160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't 
remember what it cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to 
add more/bigger batteries.�


This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does 
the Powerwall?


�


On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:


The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option 
now that it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so 
would run most of my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out 
the costs for 14kWh of our standard AGM cells and inverter, I think 
this price is quite reasonable.


�

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

�

*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

�

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Chuck McCown]

Got it.  Thanks.

-Original Message- 
From: Sam Morris 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:35 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it 


http://www.surge-suppression.org/surge-suppressor-history

First paragraph, fourth sentence.

On 10/31/2016 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I searched for lightening and didn't find any.
In any event, always happy to hear of any punctuation, grammer, usage,
spelling etc issues.

-Original Message- From: Sam Morris
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Chuck, are you interested in hearing about typos as well, or just the
general feel and look of the site? (I saw a couple, but when I came
across "lightening" I thought I should say something since that's
intrinsic to the purpose of the site...) :)

Sam


On 10/31/2016 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Got it, thanks.

I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other
devices.
I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never
done a web page before where I worried about all the devices.

-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Ken Hohhof]

I’ve had a mason jar labelled “M-Pyrol” in my basement since around 1985 that I 
got from a vendor for dissolving the potting compound on thickfilm hybrid 
circuits.  Probably not good anymore, not sure how to dispose of it.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 2:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

 

Yeah, better than a photo of my mug.

 

Actually there have been a few times when I did work with test tubes.

Trying to melt off the potting compound from the transmitter used in horizontal 
directional drilling machines.

I never did find a solvent or other compound that would dissolve that plastic.  

 

From: Cameron Crum 

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:15 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

 

I'm just curious if you actually work with test tubes and pipettes when 
designing surge protectors? Or is that just to make it look all "sciency"?

 

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown  > wrote:

Got it, thanks.

I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other 
devices.
I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never done a 
web page before where I worried about all the devices.

-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net  

On Mon October 31 2016 14:00, Chuck McCown wrote:

A good friend of mine makes a good living as a marketing consultant to
folks doing online sales etc.  I have hired him to consult a few times over
the years.  Lately he said that I need other content, a blog or social
media or something that provides expert content.  He says that people need
to feel that you are an authoritative source of info for whatever crap you
are trying to sell.

So based on the good advice always received here, I used WIX to do what I
think he was telling me to do. But now I am totally sick of looking at it.
I think the first effort contains some useful stuff, but it doesn’t really
matter what I think.

If y’all could be kind enough to take a look and tell me how to make it
better I would appreciate it. I tried to stick to my AnimalFarm doctor
science theme...

www.surge-protection.org   

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Sam Morris]

http://www.surge-suppression.org/surge-suppressor-history

First paragraph, fourth sentence.

On 10/31/2016 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I searched for lightening and didn't find any.
In any event, always happy to hear of any punctuation, grammer, usage,
spelling etc issues.

-Original Message- From: Sam Morris
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Chuck, are you interested in hearing about typos as well, or just the
general feel and look of the site? (I saw a couple, but when I came
across "lightening" I thought I should say something since that's
intrinsic to the purpose of the site...) :)

Sam


On 10/31/2016 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Got it, thanks.

I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other
devices.
I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never
done a web page before where I worried about all the devices.

-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Adam Moffett]

Yeah it charges whenever A/C input is present.  It has a 5 stage charger 
I think.  The manual has a lot of detail on that.


We got it from some vendor on Amazon.

The biggest drawback in my mind is there's no network connectivity.


On 10/31/2016 3:29 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Does the inverter charge the batts?  I presume so.
Where did you get the inverter?
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:26 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

I ran 6/3 armored with ground between each device.� There are 1/2" 
knockouts on the connection box on the inverter/charger so I bought a 
couple of BX connectors.� It comes with romex type clamps.I used 
armored because I don't think it would be legit to run Romex on top of 
a finished wall.


The inverter/charger input needs 240v so it gets hot+hot+ground.� 
The output is hot+hot+neutral to the subpanel.� The transfer switch 
"Mains" connection is actually coming from a 50a breaker in the main 
panel.� I just removed the ground/neutral bond and it works fine as 
a subpanel.� So we now have color coded outlets on the wall with 
White outlets being gen+battery protected and Grey outlets being 
unprotected (straight from the main panel).


I don't know exactly what the response time is for switching from 
charger to inverter, but when I flip off the breaker nothing 
rebootsso it's quick enough for me.� When the generator starts, 
this switches back to charger mode after a 15 second delay.


I can't wrap my head around how this works with the inverter, 
generator, and utility power all being a different phase; but I know 
it does work.


This does have an LVD which I know you don't like, but there's a 
jumper to select whether you favor more runtime or more battery 
life.� You can't disable the LVD completely; the jumper just changes 
the cutoff voltage.


Also, be aware that the 12KW model weighs over 200lbs.� Definitely 
need two people to install it.


On 10/31/2016 3:02 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

12 kw?� Sine wave?
How is it wired in with the transfer switch and mains power?
�
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
�

http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I 
think) $160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't 
remember what it cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to 
add more/bigger batteries.�


This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the 
Powerwall?


�


On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:


The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option 
now that it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so 
would run most of my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the 
costs for 14kWh of our standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this 
price is quite reasonable.


�

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

�

*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

�

[AFMUG] Fw: Tired of looking at it

[Chuck McCown]

Make that grammar... sheesh...

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:33 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it 


I searched for lightening and didn't find any.
In any event, always happy to hear of any punctuation, grammer, usage, 
spelling etc issues.


-Original Message- 
From: Sam Morris

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Chuck, are you interested in hearing about typos as well, or just the
general feel and look of the site? (I saw a couple, but when I came
across "lightening" I thought I should say something since that's
intrinsic to the purpose of the site...) :)

Sam


On 10/31/2016 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Got it, thanks.

I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other
devices.
I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never
done a web page before where I worried about all the devices.

-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Ken Hohhof]

I want a video of Chuck dancing in a Faraday cage to the musical Tesla coils, 
like Adam Savage.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

On 10/31/16 12:15, Cameron Crum wrote:
> I'm just curious if you actually work with test tubes and pipettes 
> when designing surge protectors? Or is that just to make it look all 
> "sciency"?


Put in a picture of a Tesla coil.

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Chuck McCown]

I searched for lightening and didn't find any.
In any event, always happy to hear of any punctuation, grammer, usage, 
spelling etc issues.


-Original Message- 
From: Sam Morris

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Chuck, are you interested in hearing about typos as well, or just the
general feel and look of the site? (I saw a couple, but when I came
across "lightening" I thought I should say something since that's
intrinsic to the purpose of the site...) :)

Sam


On 10/31/2016 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Got it, thanks.

I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other
devices.
I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never
done a web page before where I worried about all the devices.

-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

Re: [AFMUG] Powercode Customer Height

[Josh Luthman]

Are you talking about the path profile tool?  Pretty sure that 20 foot is a
default for all customers.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Steve  wrote:

> I can't for the life of me find out where in the database it stores the
> customer height.  When you do an elevation profile it automatically fills
> in 20ft.  However we have some customers with much larger towers.  So some
> of the elevation profiles are skewed a bit.  Plus we are adding
> functionality trying to automatically pull gps coords and height from
> Powercode to insert into the radios (cambium) manually. (among other things)
>
> Right now the oid's for the lat/long actually show read/write but are not
> accepting write permissions at the moment even though the settings are
> correct.  But that is a whole other request I have for Cambium.  But we'd
> also like to insert the height.  But I can't seem to find anywhere in
> Powercode to find where you can specify it!
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Josh Luthman]

Well it was right...then it was swappedthen righted!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> Too many designers miss this important detail.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/31/2016 11:00 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>> On an important note, Rev B has the RJ45 facing the correct way - the tab
>> is out for you to get to it  YAY!
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Chuck McCown]

Does the inverter charge the batts?  I presume so.  
Where did you get the inverter?

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

I ran 6/3 armored with ground between each device.� There are 1/2" knockouts 
on the connection box on the inverter/charger so I bought a couple of BX 
connectors.� It comes with romex type clamps.I used armored because I 
don't think it would be legit to run Romex on top of a finished wall.


The inverter/charger input needs 240v so it gets hot+hot+ground.� The output 
is hot+hot+neutral to the subpanel.� The transfer switch "Mains" connection 
is actually coming from a 50a breaker in the main panel.� I just removed the 
ground/neutral bond and it works fine as a subpanel.� So we now have color 
coded outlets on the wall with White outlets being gen+battery protected and 
Grey outlets being unprotected (straight from the main panel).


I don't know exactly what the response time is for switching from charger to 
inverter, but when I flip off the breaker nothing rebootsso it's quick 
enough for me.� When the generator starts, this switches back to charger mode 
after a 15 second delay. 


I can't wrap my head around how this works with the inverter, generator, and 
utility power all being a different phase; but I know it does work.


This does have an LVD which I know you don't like, but there's a jumper to 
select whether you favor more runtime or more battery life.� You can't 
disable the LVD completely; the jumper just changes the cutoff voltage.

Also, be aware that the 12KW model weighs over 200lbs.� Definitely need two 
people to install it.





On 10/31/2016 3:02 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  12 kw?� Sine wave?
  How is it wired in with the transfer switch and mains power?
  �
  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2
  �
  http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

  This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I think) 
$160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't remember what it 
cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger 
batteries.� 


  This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the 
Powerwall?


  �



  On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:

The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that 
it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of my 
sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our standard 
AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.

�

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

�

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

�

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah, better than a photo of my mug.

Actually there have been a few times when I did work with test tubes.
Trying to melt off the potting compound from the transmitter used in horizontal 
directional drilling machines.
I never did find a solvent or other compound that would dissolve that plastic.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

I'm just curious if you actually work with test tubes and pipettes when 
designing surge protectors? Or is that just to make it look all "sciency"?

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Got it, thanks.

  I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other 
devices.
  I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never done 
a web page before where I worried about all the devices.

  -Original Message- From: Larry Smith
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

  Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
  "the response was from the group was" probably should be
  "the response from the group was"...

  -- 
  Larry Smith
  lesm...@ecsis.net


  On Mon October 31 2016 14:00, Chuck McCown wrote:

A good friend of mine makes a good living as a marketing consultant to
folks doing online sales etc.  I have hired him to consult a few times over
the years.  Lately he said that I need other content, a blog or social
media or something that provides expert content.  He says that people need
to feel that you are an authoritative source of info for whatever crap you
are trying to sell.

So based on the good advice always received here, I used WIX to do what I
think he was telling me to do. But now I am totally sick of looking at it.
I think the first effort contains some useful stuff, but it doesn’t really
matter what I think.

If y’all could be kind enough to take a look and tell me how to make it
better I would appreciate it. I tried to stick to my AnimalFarm doctor
science theme...

www.surge-protection.org 

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Chuck McCown]

Sure, I am always typing lightening by accident.  

-Original Message- 
From: Sam Morris 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:18 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it 

Chuck, are you interested in hearing about typos as well, or just the 
general feel and look of the site? (I saw a couple, but when I came 
across "lightening" I thought I should say something since that's 
intrinsic to the purpose of the site...) :)


Sam


On 10/31/2016 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Got it, thanks.

I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other
devices.
I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never
done a web page before where I worried about all the devices.

-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Chuck McCown]

Ohhh, I like that idea.

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

On 10/31/16 12:15, Cameron Crum wrote:

I'm just curious if you actually work with test tubes and pipettes when
designing surge protectors? Or is that just to make it look all "sciency"?



Put in a picture of a Tesla coil. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Party Time

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah...I have some in that picture!

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Paul Stewart  wrote:

> Hmmm.. not sure but did you do something different with your hair?
>
> ;)
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2016, at 9:53 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> Nice! We had similar ideas.
>
> 
>
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 12:08 AM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> Negra Modelo
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Jaime Solorza <
>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Tecate is stronger.
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2016 7:01 PM, "Lewis Bergman" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm going to have to try Tecate. You sure are all over that stuff. I
 drink XX currently but you have convinced me.

 On Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:57 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

> Salud
>
> On Oct 29, 2016 5:57 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
> John Wesley Hardin grave
>
> On Oct 29, 2016 5:06 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
> "+1'
>
> On Oct 29, 2016 4:56 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
> Hola kool kats
>
>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Adam Moffett]

I ran 6/3 armored with ground between each device.  There are 1/2" 
knockouts on the connection box on the inverter/charger so I bought a 
couple of BX connectors.  It comes with romex type clamps.I used 
armored because I don't think it would be legit to run Romex on top of a 
finished wall.


The inverter/charger input needs 240v so it gets hot+hot+ground. The 
output is hot+hot+neutral to the subpanel.  The transfer switch "Mains" 
connection is actually coming from a 50a breaker in the main panel.  I 
just removed the ground/neutral bond and it works fine as a subpanel.  
So we now have color coded outlets on the wall with White outlets being 
gen+battery protected and Grey outlets being unprotected (straight from 
the main panel).


I don't know exactly what the response time is for switching from 
charger to inverter, but when I flip off the breaker nothing 
rebootsso it's quick enough for me.  When the generator starts, this 
switches back to charger mode after a 15 second delay.


I can't wrap my head around how this works with the inverter, generator, 
and utility power all being a different phase; but I know it does work.


This does have an LVD which I know you don't like, but there's a jumper 
to select whether you favor more runtime or more battery life.  You 
can't disable the LVD completely; the jumper just changes the cutoff 
voltage.


Also, be aware that the 12KW model weighs over 200lbs. Definitely need 
two people to install it.




On 10/31/2016 3:02 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

12 kw?  Sine wave?
How is it wired in with the transfer switch and mains power?
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I 
think) $160 each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't 
remember what it cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to 
add more/bigger batteries.�


This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the 
Powerwall?



On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:


The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now 
that it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would 
run most of my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs 
for 14kWh of our standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price 
is quite reasonable.


�

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

�

*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

�

[AFMUG] Powercode Customer Height

[Steve]

I can't for the life of me find out where in the database it stores the 
customer height.  When you do an elevation profile it automatically fills in 
20ft.  However we have some customers with much larger towers.  So some of the 
elevation profiles are skewed a bit.  Plus we are adding functionality trying 
to automatically pull gps coords and height from Powercode to insert into the 
radios (cambium) manually. (among other things)

Right now the oid's for the lat/long actually show read/write but are not 
accepting write permissions at the moment even though the settings are correct. 
 But that is a whole other request I have for Cambium.  But we'd also like to 
insert the height.  But I can't seem to find anywhere in Powercode to find 
where you can specify it!

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Seth Mattinen]

On 10/31/16 12:15, Cameron Crum wrote:

I'm just curious if you actually work with test tubes and pipettes when
designing surge protectors? Or is that just to make it look all "sciency"?



Put in a picture of a Tesla coil.

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Sam Morris]

Chuck, are you interested in hearing about typos as well, or just the 
general feel and look of the site? (I saw a couple, but when I came 
across "lightening" I thought I should say something since that's 
intrinsic to the purpose of the site...) :)


Sam


On 10/31/2016 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Got it, thanks.

I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other
devices.
I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never
done a web page before where I worried about all the devices.

-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Cameron Crum]

I'm just curious if you actually work with test tubes and pipettes when
designing surge protectors? Or is that just to make it look all "sciency"?

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Got it, thanks.
>
> I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other
> devices.
> I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never
> done a web page before where I worried about all the devices.
>
> -Original Message- From: Larry Smith
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it
>
> Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
> "the response was from the group was" probably should be
> "the response from the group was"...
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Mon October 31 2016 14:00, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> A good friend of mine makes a good living as a marketing consultant to
>> folks doing online sales etc.  I have hired him to consult a few times
>> over
>> the years.  Lately he said that I need other content, a blog or social
>> media or something that provides expert content.  He says that people need
>> to feel that you are an authoritative source of info for whatever crap you
>> are trying to sell.
>>
>> So based on the good advice always received here, I used WIX to do what I
>> think he was telling me to do. But now I am totally sick of looking at it.
>> I think the first effort contains some useful stuff, but it doesn’t really
>> matter what I think.
>>
>> If y’all could be kind enough to take a look and tell me how to make it
>> better I would appreciate it. I tried to stick to my AnimalFarm doctor
>> science theme...
>>
>> www.surge-protection.org
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah I guess the banks get crosswise with federal regulators if they knowingly 
do business with a pot operation.  

So, I guess the pot operators all need really big car washes.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

So my facts may be a little wrong, cuz I heard this from a guy who heard it 
from a guy.  Although there is profit to be had, it's hard to get at.  He 
described a pot sales operation in Colorado, where although it is legal to sell 
it in the state, it is illegal on the national level, so he can't claim any of 
that income at the federal level.  So all money is converted into Gold, and 
physically stored.  He's guarded by all Ex-military guys.  


On 10/31/2016 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I retire.  
Gardening is easy, right?

  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

  60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law in 
Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 36 acres. 
He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. Each plant has an 
RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that they also employed what 
looked like armed guards.

  No room required. All out in the open air.



bp


On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from the 
grow tent to the grow room.  

(Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested in.  
I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m blaming it on 
you guys.

 

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html

 

Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and 
make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Chuck McCown]

Got it, thanks.

I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other 
devices.
I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never 
done a web page before where I worried about all the devices.


-Original Message- 
From: Larry Smith

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

--
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Mon October 31 2016 14:00, Chuck McCown wrote:

A good friend of mine makes a good living as a marketing consultant to
folks doing online sales etc.  I have hired him to consult a few times 
over

the years.  Lately he said that I need other content, a blog or social
media or something that provides expert content.  He says that people need
to feel that you are an authoritative source of info for whatever crap you
are trying to sell.

So based on the good advice always received here, I used WIX to do what I
think he was telling me to do. But now I am totally sick of looking at it.
I think the first effort contains some useful stuff, but it doesn’t really
matter what I think.

If y’all could be kind enough to take a look and tell me how to make it
better I would appreciate it. I tried to stick to my AnimalFarm doctor
science theme...

www.surge-protection.org 

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Nate Burke]

So my facts may be a little wrong, cuz I heard this from a guy who heard 
it from a guy.  Although there is profit to be had, it's hard to get 
at.  He described a pot sales operation in Colorado, where although it 
is legal to sell it in the state, it is illegal on the national level, 
so he can't claim any of that income at the federal level.  So all money 
is converted into Gold, and physically stored. He's guarded by all 
Ex-military guys.


On 10/31/2016 2:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I retire.  
Gardening is easy, right?

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law 
in Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 
36 acres. He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. 
Each plant has an RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that 
they also employed what looked like armed guards.


No room required. All out in the open air.

bp


On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from 
the grow tent to the grow room.

(Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested 
in. I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m 
blaming it on you guys.


https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html

Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, 
and make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Jaime Solorza]

clean...me like

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> A good friend of mine makes a good living as a marketing consultant to
> folks doing online sales etc.  I have hired him to consult a few times over
> the years.  Lately he said that I need other content, a blog or social
> media or something that provides expert content.  He says that people need
> to feel that you are an authoritative source of info for whatever crap you
> are trying to sell.
>
> So based on the good advice always received here, I used WIX to do what I
> think he was telling me to do.
> But now I am totally sick of looking at it.  I think the first effort
> contains some useful stuff, but it doesn’t really matter what I think.
>
> If y’all could be kind enough to take a look and tell me how to make it
> better I would appreciate it.
> I tried to stick to my AnimalFarm doctor science theme...
>
> www.surge-protection.org
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Larry Smith]

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Mon October 31 2016 14:00, Chuck McCown wrote:
> A good friend of mine makes a good living as a marketing consultant to
> folks doing online sales etc.  I have hired him to consult a few times over
> the years.  Lately he said that I need other content, a blog or social
> media or something that provides expert content.  He says that people need
> to feel that you are an authoritative source of info for whatever crap you
> are trying to sell.
>
> So based on the good advice always received here, I used WIX to do what I
> think he was telling me to do. But now I am totally sick of looking at it. 
> I think the first effort contains some useful stuff, but it doesn’t really
> matter what I think.
>
> If y’all could be kind enough to take a look and tell me how to make it
> better I would appreciate it. I tried to stick to my AnimalFarm doctor
> science theme...
>
> www.surge-protection.org

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Bill Prince]

One of the things they mentioned is that the county that operation is in 
(Pueblo County I think) has a measure on the ballot that would outlaw 
his operation. He said that law would put him out of business. Good bye 
$20 million gross.


bp


On 10/31/2016 12:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I retire.  
Gardening is easy, right?

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law 
in Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 
36 acres. He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. 
Each plant has an RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that 
they also employed what looked like armed guards.


No room required. All out in the open air.

bp


On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from 
the grow tent to the grow room.

(Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested 
in. I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m 
blaming it on you guys.


https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html

Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, 
and make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Chuck McCown]

So, roughly $1K/plant.  Maybe I will move to Colorado when I retire.  Gardening 
is easy, right?

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law in 
Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 36 acres. 
He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. Each plant has an 
RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that they also employed what 
looked like armed guards.

No room required. All out in the open air.



bp


On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from the grow 
tent to the grow room.  

  (Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

  Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested in.  
I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m blaming it on 
you guys.

   

  https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html

   

  Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and make 
a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Chuck McCown]

12 kw?  Sine wave?
How is it wired in with the transfer switch and mains power?

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

This has a street price of $2500.� The four SLA batteries were (I think) $160 
each.� The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't remember what it 
cost.� This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger 
batteries.� 


This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the Powerwall?






On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:

  The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that it 
has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of my sites 
for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our standard AGM 
cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.

  �

  https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

  �

  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

  �

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Bill Prince]

60 Minutes did a little overview of the implementation of the pot law in 
Colorado last night. They interviewed one guy doing an operation on 36 
acres. He grows ~~ 22,000 plants, and grosses $20 million per year. Each 
plant has an RFID tag on it. Interesting stuff. I noticed that they also 
employed what looked like armed guards.


No room required. All out in the open air.


bp


On 10/31/2016 11:50 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from 
the grow tent to the grow room.

(Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested 
in.  I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m 
blaming it on you guys.


https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html

Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, 
and make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Adam Moffett]

http://www.aimscorp.net/12000-Watt-Inverter-Charger-48-volt-120-240vac.html

This has a street price of $2500.  The four SLA batteries were (I think) 
$160 each.  The 3/0 battery cable was not free, but I don't remember 
what it cost.  This is only 4800 Wh, but it's trivial to add more/bigger 
batteries.


This doesn't have any built in network monitoring though.does the 
Powerwall?




On 10/31/2016 2:14 PM, Peter Kranz wrote:


The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now 
that it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run 
most of my sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 
14kWh of our standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is 
quite reasonable.


https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 

[AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Chuck McCown]

A good friend of mine makes a good living as a marketing consultant to folks 
doing online sales etc.  I have hired him to consult a few times over the 
years.  Lately he said that I need other content, a blog or social media or 
something that provides expert content.  He says that people need to feel that 
you are an authoritative source of info for whatever crap you are trying to 
sell.  

So based on the good advice always received here, I used WIX to do what I think 
he was telling me to do.
But now I am totally sick of looking at it.  I think the first effort contains 
some useful stuff, but it doesn’t really matter what I think.

If y’all could be kind enough to take a look and tell me how to make it better 
I would appreciate it.  
I tried to stick to my AnimalFarm doctor science theme...

www.surge-protection.org

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Nate Burke]

Nothing like that that I've seen on the ballat.  Just a Constitutional 
amendment that says the legislature has to actually spend money on what 
they say they're going to spend it on.  (They can't use the Road Tax for 
whatever they feel like)


On 10/31/2016 1:50 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from 
the grow tent to the grow room.

(Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested 
in.  I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m 
blaming it on you guys.


https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html

Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, 
and make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Jaime Solorza]

More money in growing, cough, herbs

On Oct 31, 2016 12:48 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested in.
> I’m always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m blaming it
> on you guys.
>
>
>
> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html
>
>
>
> Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and
> make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Chuck McCown]

Once pot is legalized in Illinois, you can move your operation from the grow 
tent to the grow room.  

(Do you guys have any pot bills on the ballot)?

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 12:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested in.  I’m 
always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I’m blaming it on you 
guys.

 

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html

 

Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and make a 
little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Chuck McCown]

If you don’t consider the 100% depth of discharge, it seems a bit spendy.
I can get inverters for about 20 cents per watt.
Batts for 15 cents per watt hour.  

If I was going to build a 14 kWh/5500 kW inverter setup, I think I could do it 
for $3200 but as Bill pointed out, I will ruin my batts if I do 100% DOD more 
than just a few times.  

From: Peter Kranz 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that it 
has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of my sites 
for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our standard AGM 
cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.

 

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

[AFMUG] OT - grow tent?

[Ken Hohhof]

Somehow the Internet decided this was something I would be interested in.
I'm always seeing ads for stuff discussed on this list, so I'm blaming it on
you guys.

 

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/154338/SUN-70.html

 

Put one at a tower site, have a nice, well-lighted work environment, and
make a little money on the side.  Growing tomatoes, of course.

[AFMUG] Tesla powerwall 2

[Peter Kranz]

The new tesla powerwall 2 appears to be an interesting UPS option now that
it has a build in inverter/charger. 14kWh for $5500, so would run most of my
sites for about 24 hours. When I backed out the costs for 14kWh of our
standard AGM cells and inverter, I think this price is quite reasonable.

 

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Bill Prince]

Too many designers miss this important detail.


bp


On 10/31/2016 11:00 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
On an important note, Rev B has the RJ45 facing the correct way - the 
tab is out for you to get to it  YAY!

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

[Josh Luthman]

I remember BBDGE but I don't remember a bbdne at all.

On an important note, Rev B has the RJ45 facing the correct way - the tab
is out for you to get to it  YAY!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 4:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> bbdne has gel and crummy coated shield, bbdge has copper clad and paste,
> the paste doesnt run, bbdne killed alot of power supplies on our network,
> turns out running cable designed to be horizontally in a vertical run is bad
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Lol I think that's the cable with issues...
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2016 3:55 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> bbdge - no more headaches
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:23 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Rev C are currently in production with Rev D within a month.
 Rev C has the improved RF interference bypass and the POE sync glitch
 absorber.

 The Rev D is a mechanical change only.  100% surface mount.

 If you think one of our surge suppressors is possibly suspect in any
 link issues, we will always do a free upgrade.

>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> All of mine are A.1 in the office.  The truck is almost certainly
>> older, but I haven't looked at them with my own eyes.
>>
>> Can I just RMA a whole bunch of A.1 and get D.1?  I'll buy the D.1
>> and then you can do whatever you want with A.1, I just want to avoid any
>> ethernet link issues.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:37 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, you want rev C or D.
>>>
>>> Nothing wrong with A & B but something odd is happening with ePMP
>>> and POE sync.  We know what the POE sync issues is and have solved that.
>>> But ePMP still has some goofiness that we have not figured out but the 
>>> fix
>>> for POE sync seems to also cure the ePMP problem.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:33 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>>
>>> Definitely not.  These spares are absolutely more than 4 weeks.  Do
>>> they have the rev written on them?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Are these ones that I have sent you very recently? (Like in the
 last 4 weeks). If not then they don’t have the new rev.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:28 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg

 That's the box, yes.

 I've got new GIGEHV cards to try, just sent a guy out there to swap
 that out and see what happens.  Next step would be the line/radio but 
 it's
 raining for days at this point...


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:

> OK, so it is a card that slides into the 4 position metal box?
> I’ll send you a new one to try.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>
> Your metal box, indoors.  Tied to the same ground as everything
> else coming in to the building (A LOT).
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I have a new rev of the GigE HV products.  Is this plugged into
>> an APC rack or is it in an outdoor box?
>> The new design calms down goofiness like this on some circuits.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:08 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Sync AP only doing 10 meg
>>
>> No.  Mikrotiks don't do POE sync.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Changes coming

[Bill Prince]

Some tax game going on too. From the article:

   Level 3 will help trim CenturyLink’s tax bill by adding nearly $10
   billion of accumulated net operating losses to its balance sheet.
   Level 3 racked up massive losses for most of its history, as heavy
   infrastructure costs outstripped its service revenues. The newly
   profitable carrier has more recently used those past losses to
   reduce its effective tax rate.

Interesting strategy to acquire a debt-laden company to get a massive 
tax write-off.



bp


On 10/31/2016 10:30 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

I wonder how this will affect everything...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/centurylink-to-buy-level-3-communications-for-25-billion-1477911639 



I know a lot of people use and love Level3, but absolutely hate 
Centurylink.


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] Changes coming

[Josh Reynolds]

Level3 has been garbage for awhile now. Too many large (sometimes nation
wide) outages. Sometimes data, sometimes voice, sometimes both. A lot of
"legacy" Time Warner customers are miserable, as they've had more outages
since the acquisition than prior to it.

http://fuckinglevel3.com/

On Oct 31, 2016 12:30 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

> I wonder how this will affect everything...
>
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/centurylink-to-buy-level-3-commu
> nications-for-25-billion-1477911639
>
> I know a lot of people use and love Level3, but absolutely hate
> Centurylink.
>
> Travis
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Changes coming

[Chuck McCown]

CL has been pretty heavy handed in other acquisitions.  So much so that many 
of the Qwest people still refer to themselves as legacy employees and have 
their own faction going.


-Original Message- 
From: Travis Johnson

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 11:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Changes coming

I wonder how this will affect everything...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/centurylink-to-buy-level-3-communications-for-25-billion-1477911639

I know a lot of people use and love Level3, but absolutely hate
Centurylink.

Travis

[AFMUG] Changes coming

[Travis Johnson]

I wonder how this will affect everything...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/centurylink-to-buy-level-3-communications-for-25-billion-1477911639

I know a lot of people use and love Level3, but absolutely hate 
Centurylink.


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber

[Mike Hammett]

I believe so. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 11:53:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber 



Do they still have free WiFi from the streetlights in town? 




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 11:48 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber 


RMU fixed wireless is largely dead. I tried picking it up when they had a 
crisis outage, but we didn't get anything settled. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 11:45:29 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber 

Municipal utilities are probably best off deploying fiber because it fits their 
model of infrastructure that you can install and forget for 20+ years. 

Something I think they tend to miss when they install fixed wireless is the 
network upgrade you have to do every 3-5 years. A lot of us are probably on our 
3rd or 4th forklift upgrade at some towers. 

http://www.rmu.net/divisions/communications/services/wireless-broadband-internet
 

H, I can leave dialup in the dust, if I can just find a computer running 
Windows 95/98/ME/XP. 


-Original Message- 
From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 11:27 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber 

No doubt all the muni-wifi projects failed. 

-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 10:23 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ammon City fiber 

Lewis Bergman wrote: 
> I rail against these types of projects not because they typically 
> fail, which they do, 
That's the second time you make that claim. Could you please back this up with 
some sources? 

Could you also shine some light on those federal bailout programs you say are 
paying for all the failures? 

> Let the free market system take care of everything else. 
How about them that the free market does not serve? 

You make a coherent argument about municipalities focusing on core services, 
but it does not address them that are left out in the cold. 

Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] Dumb ePMP question of the day

[Mathew Howard]

I was going to say wrong key, but it occurred to me that they normally say
something like "rejected - invalid key" when that happens. I think we have
Radius, WPA2 and Open all checked on all of ours (which are all only
actually using WPA2)
, so I don't see how that could be doing it.

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> I've confirmed the keys are correct but in the AP WPA2 is checked but in
> the SMs in question both RADIUS and WPA2 are checked.  Could that be a
> problem?
>
> That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
>> wrong key
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Jay Weekley > > wrote:
>>
>> What does "Rejected - Generic Authentication Failure" mean?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>