Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Jason McKemie]

It's almost April 1st though!

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 10:12 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Hey man, it is not EASTER yet!!!
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 8:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
> http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/08/julian-assange-
> says-google-directly-engaged-clinton-campaign/
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> Wha?
>
> citation?
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Rory Conaway" 
>
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
> Sent: 3/30/2017 9:47:45 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> One other thing that I’m sure the Republicans considered when supporting
> this bill.  They know Google has been supplying and manipulating data and
> search engines for the Democrats for years.  Hell, they started a company
> specifically to do just that.  I think the Republicans are looking at
> having access to that data as being important.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> It’s true, and it is the core business case of many other social network
> companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do they choose not
> to use the only ISP in their market?
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 <(510)%20868-1614> x100
> Mobile: 510-207- <(510)%20207->
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google
> has been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same
> rights.  Of course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never
> crossed their minds.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> While the FCC’s proposed “Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband
> and Other Telecommunication Services” rule might not have been perfect, and
> potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the
> basic concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that
> small ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the
> clear differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify
> every aspect of their customer’s usage.
>
>
>
> Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/
>
>
>
> I’m open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to
> try to get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the
> end user.
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 <(510)%20868-1614> x100
> Mobile: 510-207- <(510)%20207->
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Jason McKemie]

+Graham's number.

They're about as dependable and un-biased as Fox "News".

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 9:43 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> You believe Breitbart?!?!?
>
> What planet you live on?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/30/2017 7:12 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>
> http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/08/julian-assange-
> says-google-directly-engaged-clinton-campaign/
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> Wha?
>
> citation?
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Rory Conaway" 
>
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
> Sent: 3/30/2017 9:47:45 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> One other thing that I’m sure the Republicans considered when supporting
> this bill.  They know Google has been supplying and manipulating data and
> search engines for the Democrats for years.  Hell, they started a company
> specifically to do just that.  I think the Republicans are looking at
> having access to that data as being important.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> It’s true, and it is the core business case of many other social network
> companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do they choose not
> to use the only ISP in their market?
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 <(510)%20868-1614>
> Mobile: 510-207- <(510)%20207->
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google
> has been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same
> rights.  Of course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never
> crossed their minds.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> While the FCC’s proposed “Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband
> and Other Telecommunication Services” rule might not have been perfect, and
> potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the
> basic concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that
> small ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the
> clear differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify
> every aspect of their customer’s usage.
>
>
>
> Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/
>
>
>
> I’m open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to
> try to get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the
> end user.
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 <(510)%20868-1614>
> Mobile: 510-207- <(510)%20207->
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] GPON

[Jason McKemie]

Good info guys, thanks.

The maximum distance between any two ONTs is good to know, although I doubt
I'll run into that particular issue.

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 10:13 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <
m...@mailmt.com> wrote:

> Adam,
>
> Actually, you can go out further that 20km.  I have customers out as far
> as 29km.  There are two factors to take into consideration.
>
> 1. Optical budget.  Very simple math just like the wireless world.  Start
> with TX subtract splitter loss, distance loss, and connector loss.  If
> greater than RX value, you are good to go.  We usually try for a 3-4 db
> margin or paper to give us some wiggle room.
>
> 2. The donut, as Donny calls it.  The maximum distance between two ONT's
> on one OLT port is 20km.  Zhone has a parameter on each olt port that I can
> set min and max distance.  I have most OLT ports set at 0km-20km which is
> the default.  I have a few at 10km-30km for longer reach.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
> *Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life *
> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL
>
> *Please Donate at Please Donate at *http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html
>
>
>
>
> *-- Thursday, March 30, 2017, 10:05:26 PM, you wrote: *
>
> There's a link budget calculation.  I found some online calculators, but
> to be honest I didn't actually understand all the variables.  Rather than
> barf it up, I signed up for a class.
> $195 http://fisuniversity.com/courses-fiber-to-the-x.html
>
> One rule of thumb I saw was you could go 20km on a 32:1 PON...but it's not
> actually that simple.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jason McKemie" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 3/30/2017 10:01:33 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] GPON
>
>
> How do you go about calculating the maximum distance for a GPON system?
> Is it the total distance of all the fiber on a given PON?
>
> -Jason
>

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Rory Conaway]

Thanks to Google I know you like purple eggs with pink spots.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 8:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

Hey man, it is not EASTER yet!!!

From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 8:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/08/julian-assange-says-google-directly-engaged-clinton-campaign/

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

Wha?
citation?

-- Original Message --
From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Sent: 3/30/2017 9:47:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

One other thing that I’m sure the Republicans considered when supporting this 
bill.  They know Google has been supplying and manipulating data and search 
engines for the Democrats for years.  Hell, they started a company specifically 
to do just that.  I think the Republicans are looking at having access to that 
data as being important.

Rory


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

It’s true, and it is the core business case of many other social network 
companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do they choose not to 
use the only ISP in their market?

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google has 
been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same rights.  Of 
course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never crossed their 
minds.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

While the FCC’s proposed “Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband and 
Other Telecommunication Services” rule might not have been perfect, and 
potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the basic 
concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that small 
ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the clear 
differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify every aspect 
of their customer’s usage.

Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/

I’m open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to try to 
get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the end user.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

Re: [AFMUG] GPON

[Chuck McCown]

Re: [AFMUG] GPONStandards based GPON will only allow you to go 20 km and at a 
32:1 split and normal cable you have plenty of light at that distance.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:13 PM
To: Adam Moffett 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] GPON

Adam,

Actually, you can go out further that 20km.  I have customers out as far as 
29km.  There are two factors to take into consideration.

1. Optical budget.  Very simple math just like the wireless world.  Start with 
TX subtract splitter loss, distance loss, and connector loss.  If greater than 
RX value, you are good to go.  We usually try for a 3-4 db margin or paper to 
give us some wiggle room.

2. The donut, as Donny calls it.  The maximum distance between two ONT's on one 
OLT port is 20km.  Zhone has a parameter on each olt port that I can set min 
and max distance.  I have most OLT ports set at 0km-20km which is the default.  
I have a few at 10km-30km for longer reach.   

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at Please Donate at http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html
--

Thursday, March 30, 2017, 10:05:26 PM, you wrote:


 There's a link budget calculation.  I found some online calculators, but 
to be honest I didn't actually understand all the variables.  Rather than barf 
it up, I signed up for a class.  
  $195 http://fisuniversity.com/courses-fiber-to-the-x.html

  One rule of thumb I saw was you could go 20km on a 32:1 PON...but it's 
not actually that simple.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Jason McKemie" 
  To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Sent: 3/30/2017 10:01:33 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] GPON


   How do you go about calculating the maximum distance for a GPON 
system?  Is it the total distance of all the fiber on a given PON?

-Jason 
 

Re: [AFMUG] batteries good deal?

[Chuck McCown]

Not sure if we are back to offending Ivan or looking at containers full of 
batteries.
Containers are a magnet for thieves.  They just cannot pass one up.  Weld in a 
new door with a steel frame and steel door.  


From: Zach Underwood 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] batteries good deal?

follow up to this. The batteries are in there new home. 
More info here at my site 
https://mycontainerhome.org/solar-and-the-break-in-3-29-2017/ 


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 6:42 AM, Ivan Kohler  wrote:

  On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 08:51:18PM +, Mathew Howard wrote:
  > Is it okay to jew people down if they're jews? or if you're a jew? :P
  > And does it offend actual jews to call it jewing,

  Yes.  Would you use the N word as a derogatory verb?

  I seriously can't believe what I'm reading.

  --
  Ivan Kohler
  President and Head Geek, Freeside Internet Services, Inc.  
http://freeside.biz/
  Debian GNU/Linux developer  |  CPAN author  |  cat person  |  ski addict





-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 
My website

advance-networking.com

Re: [AFMUG] GPON

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] GPON


Adam,

Actually, you can go out further that 20km.  I have customers out as far as 29km.  There are two factors to take into consideration.

1. Optical budget.  Very simple math just like the wireless world.  Start with TX subtract splitter loss, distance loss, and connector loss.  If greater than RX value, you are good to go.  We usually try for a 3-4 db margin or paper to give us some wiggle room.

2. The donut, as Donny calls it.  The maximum distance between two ONT's on one OLT port is 20km.  Zhone has a parameter on each olt port that I can set min and max distance.  I have most OLT ports set at 0km-20km which is the default.  I have a few at 10km-30km for longer reach.   

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at Please Donate at http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html
--

Thursday, March 30, 2017, 10:05:26 PM, you wrote:






There's a link budget calculation.  I found some online calculators, but to be honest I didn't actually understand all the variables.  Rather than barf it up, I signed up for a class.  
$195 http://fisuniversity.com/courses-fiber-to-the-x.html

One rule of thumb I saw was you could go 20km on a 32:1 PON...but it's not actually that simple.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/30/2017 10:01:33 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] GPON





How do you go about calculating the maximum distance for a GPON system?  Is it the total distance of all the fiber on a given PON?

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Chuck McCown]

Hey man, it is not EASTER yet!!!

From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 8:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/08/julian-assange-says-google-directly-engaged-clinton-campaign/

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

 

Wha? 

citation?

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Rory Conaway" 

To: "af@afmug.com" 

Sent: 3/30/2017 9:47:45 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

 

  One other thing that I’m sure the Republicans considered when supporting this 
bill.  They know Google has been supplying and manipulating data and search 
engines for the Democrats for years.  Hell, they started a company specifically 
to do just that.  I think the Republicans are looking at having access to that 
data as being important.

   

  Rory 

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
  Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

   

  It’s true, and it is the core business case of many other social network 
companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do they choose not to 
use the only ISP in their market?

   

  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
  Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

   

  I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google has 
been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same rights.  Of 
course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never crossed their 
minds.

   

  Rory

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
  Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

   

  While the FCC’s proposed “Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband 
and Other Telecommunication Services” rule might not have been perfect, and 
potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the basic 
concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that small 
ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the clear 
differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify every aspect 
of their customer’s usage.

   

  Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/ 

   

  I’m open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to try 
to get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the end user.

   

  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

   

Re: [AFMUG] GPON

[Chuck McCown]

It is timing limited before you run out of light.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 8:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] GPON

There's a link budget calculation.  I found some online calculators, but to be 
honest I didn't actually understand all the variables.  Rather than barf it up, 
I signed up for a class.  
$195 http://fisuniversity.com/courses-fiber-to-the-x.html

One rule of thumb I saw was you could go 20km on a 32:1 PON...but it's not 
actually that simple.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/30/2017 10:01:33 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] GPON

  How do you go about calculating the maximum distance for a GPON system?  Is 
it the total distance of all the fiber on a given PON? 

  -Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Chuck McCown]

The non trivial part is the balanced differential pairs from the SFP to the 
chipset.
And then the initialization of the chipset.  More work than I wanted to do.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:25 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

I've torn a couple apart that use a fairly easy to use chipset.  But only 
available in commercial temperature range. 

Some of the battle here is figuring out the vendors who do this type of stuff.  
I want to avoid switches since I want this as transparent as possible,  but I 
might end up having to go there.  I have another secret weapon in my arsenal 
but I'm hoping I don't have to go there since that's more software and software 
takes time.

On Mar 30, 2017 2:21 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  I looked at doing media converters last year.  Not trivial.  

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:07 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

  Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at. 

  I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify the fiber 
up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..  Think a multiport ubiquiti 
fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver built in, along with tower-top 
management.

  I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little as 
possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as possible - 
I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't found any which I 
feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear some more of the units apart 
to figure out what chipsets are available.

  -forrest

  On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

RB260.
Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.  That's a switch, so 
maybe it's more complicated than you're going for.


-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
To: "af" 
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

  I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp converters for 
reverse engineering purposes.  Ideally some which are known to work well and 
especially any which don't fail in non climate controlled environments. 

  What is everyone using?  




  -- 

Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

   

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Bill Prince]

You believe Breitbart?!?!?

What planet you live on?


bp


On 3/30/2017 7:12 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:


http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/08/julian-assange-says-google-directly-engaged-clinton-campaign/

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

Wha?

citation?

-- Original Message --

From: "Rory Conaway" >


To: "af@afmug.com " >


Sent: 3/30/2017 9:47:45 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

One other thing that I’m sure the Republicans considered when
supporting this bill.  They know Google has been supplying and
manipulating data and search engines for the Democrats for years. 
Hell, they started a company specifically to do just that.  I

think the Republicans are looking at having access to that data as
being important.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
*Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

It’s true, and it is the core business case of many other social
network companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How
do they choose not to use the only ISP in their market?

*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

I heard a comment today that I had not thought about. Apparently
Google has been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to
have the same rights.  Of course, prohibiting Google from selling
this information never crossed their minds.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
*Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

While the FCC’s proposed “Protecting the Privacy of Customers of
Broadband and Other Telecommunication Services” rule might not
have been perfect, and potentially difficult to implement for
small ISPs and WISPS, I think the basic concept was sound. I
created a simple non-legally binding pledge that small ISPs and
WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the clear
differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify
every aspect of their customer’s usage.

Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/

I’m open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this,
but to try to get some visibility for our industry and its unique
respect for the end user.

*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Jaime Solorza]

Sisyphus

On Mar 30, 2017 8:12 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/08/julian-assange-
> says-google-directly-engaged-clinton-campaign/
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> Wha?
>
> citation?
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Rory Conaway" 
>
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
> Sent: 3/30/2017 9:47:45 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> One other thing that I’m sure the Republicans considered when supporting
> this bill.  They know Google has been supplying and manipulating data and
> search engines for the Democrats for years.  Hell, they started a company
> specifically to do just that.  I think the Republicans are looking at
> having access to that data as being important.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> It’s true, and it is the core business case of many other social network
> companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do they choose not
> to use the only ISP in their market?
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 <(510)%20868-1614>
> Mobile: 510-207- <(510)%20207->
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google
> has been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same
> rights.  Of course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never
> crossed their minds.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> While the FCC’s proposed “Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband
> and Other Telecommunication Services” rule might not have been perfect, and
> potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the
> basic concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that
> small ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the
> clear differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify
> every aspect of their customer’s usage.
>
>
>
> Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/
>
>
>
> I’m open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to
> try to get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the
> end user.
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 <(510)%20868-1614>
> Mobile: 510-207- <(510)%20207->
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Rory Conaway]

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/06/08/julian-assange-says-google-directly-engaged-clinton-campaign/

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

Wha?
citation?

-- Original Message --
From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Sent: 3/30/2017 9:47:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

One other thing that I’m sure the Republicans considered when supporting this 
bill.  They know Google has been supplying and manipulating data and search 
engines for the Democrats for years.  Hell, they started a company specifically 
to do just that.  I think the Republicans are looking at having access to that 
data as being important.

Rory


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

It’s true, and it is the core business case of many other social network 
companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do they choose not to 
use the only ISP in their market?

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google has 
been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same rights.  Of 
course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never crossed their 
minds.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

While the FCC’s proposed “Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband and 
Other Telecommunication Services” rule might not have been perfect, and 
potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the basic 
concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that small 
ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the clear 
differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify every aspect 
of their customer’s usage.

Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/

I’m open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to try to 
get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the end user.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

Re: [AFMUG] GPON

[Adam Moffett]

There's a link budget calculation.  I found some online calculators, but 
to be honest I didn't actually understand all the variables.  Rather 
than barf it up, I signed up for a class.

$195 http://fisuniversity.com/courses-fiber-to-the-x.html

One rule of thumb I saw was you could go 20km on a 32:1 PON...but it's 
not actually that simple.



-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/30/2017 10:01:33 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] GPON

How do you go about calculating the maximum distance for a GPON system? 
 Is it the total distance of all the fiber on a given PON?


-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] GPON

[Eric Kuhnke]

Optical link budget calculation in each direction, same as with direct
point to point link budgets. But taking into account the loss from each
splitter, and adding margin for things like unicam if you are using them.

It can be done in Excel if you lay things out correctly.



On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> How do you go about calculating the maximum distance for a GPON system?
> Is it the total distance of all the fiber on a given PON?
>
> -Jason
>

[AFMUG] GPON

[Jason McKemie]

How do you go about calculating the maximum distance for a GPON system?  Is
it the total distance of all the fiber on a given PON?

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Adam Moffett]

Wha?
citation?

-- Original Message --
From: "Rory Conaway" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/30/2017 9:47:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

One other thing that I’m sure the Republicans considered when 
supporting this bill.  They know Google has been supplying and 
manipulating data and search engines for the Democrats for years.  
Hell, they started a company specifically to do just that.  I think the 
Republicans are looking at having access to that data as being 
important.




Rory





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge



It’s true, and it is the core business case of many other social 
network companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do 
they choose not to use the only ISP in their market?




Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge



I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently 
Google has been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have 
the same rights.  Of course, prohibiting Google from selling this 
information never crossed their minds.




Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge



While the FCC’s proposed “Protecting the Privacy of Customers of 
Broadband and Other Telecommunication Services” rule might not have 
been perfect, and potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and 
WISPS, I think the basic concept was sound. I created a simple 
non-legally binding pledge that small ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I 
feel will demonstrate one of the clear differentiators between us and 
larger ISPs who seek to commodify every aspect of their customer’s 
usage.




Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/



I’m open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but 
to try to get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect 
for the end user.




Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Jason McKemie]

This is a big corporate handout, no need to get conspiracy theories
involved.

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> One other thing that I’m sure the Republicans considered when supporting
> this bill.  They know Google has been supplying and manipulating data and
> search engines for the Democrats for years.  Hell, they started a company
> specifically to do just that.  I think the Republicans are looking at
> having access to that data as being important.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> It’s true, and it is the core business case of many other social network
> companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do they choose not
> to use the only ISP in their market?
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 <(510)%20868-1614>
> Mobile: 510-207- <(510)%20207->
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google
> has been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same
> rights.  Of course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never
> crossed their minds.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> While the FCC’s proposed “Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband
> and Other Telecommunication Services” rule might not have been perfect, and
> potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the
> basic concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that
> small ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the
> clear differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify
> every aspect of their customer’s usage.
>
>
>
> Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/
>
>
>
> I’m open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to
> try to get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the
> end user.
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 <(510)%20868-1614>
> Mobile: 510-207- <(510)%20207->
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Jason McKemie]

Does Google or Facebook actually sell this information externally though?
I was under the impression that they used it internally so that they could
make their advertising and other services more profitable.

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google
> has been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same
> rights.  Of course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never
> crossed their minds.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Kranz
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge
>
>
>
> While the FCC’s proposed “Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband
> and Other Telecommunication Services” rule might not have been perfect, and
> potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the
> basic concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that
> small ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the
> clear differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify
> every aspect of their customer’s usage.
>
>
>
> Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/
>
>
>
> I’m open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to
> try to get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the
> end user.
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 <(510)%20868-1614>
> Mobile: 510-207- <(510)%20207->
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Rory Conaway]

One other thing that I'm sure the Republicans considered when supporting this 
bill.  They know Google has been supplying and manipulating data and search 
engines for the Democrats for years.  Hell, they started a company specifically 
to do just that.  I think the Republicans are looking at having access to that 
data as being important.

Rory


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

It's true, and it is the core business case of many other social network 
companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do they choose not to 
use the only ISP in their market?

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google has 
been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same rights.  Of 
course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never crossed their 
minds.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

While the FCC's proposed "Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband and 
Other Telecommunication Services" rule might not have been perfect, and 
potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the basic 
concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that small 
ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the clear 
differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify every aspect 
of their customer's usage.

Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/

I'm open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to try to 
get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the end user.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Rory Conaway]

Google captures a lot of data that isn't from their core customers.  They 
pretty much have their hands into most data moving around internet.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

It's true, and it is the core business case of many other social network 
companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do they choose not to 
use the only ISP in their market?

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google has 
been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same rights.  Of 
course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never crossed their 
minds.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

While the FCC's proposed "Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband and 
Other Telecommunication Services" rule might not have been perfect, and 
potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the basic 
concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that small 
ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the clear 
differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify every aspect 
of their customer's usage.

Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/

I'm open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to try to 
get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the end user.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450M POE versus PTP650 POE

[George Skorup]

For 450i I've been doing -1/2 +3/6 -4/5 +7/8. 450i will take either 
polarity on any pair, 2 positive pairs, 2 negative pairs. BUT... Forrest 
mentioned before that you MUST have -4/5 and +7/8 like old Canopy or 
sync-over-power won't work, the radio simply won't see the sync pulse. 
The other two pairs don't seem to matter much. All of the other 802.3at 
compliant stuff I've worked with calls for -1/2 +3/6. That is the 3at 
2-pair/30W standard. Those are also obviously your 10/100 data pairs. So 
that's pretty much why I'm sticking with that for the other pairs. I 
don't know if the -4/5 +7/8 thing matters with "Cambium Sync" on the 
450m though. If it was me, I'd wire/pin it exactly the same as I do for 
450i, because who the hell knows what would happen when they change 
something in software.


And then PTP650. That's the standard 802.3at 4-pair/60W aka "POE Plus" 
power polarity scheme. Pretty sure you must use that pinout because of 
the remote default, PTP Sync and/or T1/E1 stuffs. I've never used any of 
the Orthogon PTP stuff. Thought about it many times. It almost always 
comes down to... f**k it, going licensed for about the same $$.


On 3/30/2017 5:28 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


So we've powered up our first PMP450M on the bench, and we set up the 
power thusly:


  * 1/2 (return)
  * 3/6 (return)
  * 4/5 +56V
  * 7/8 +56V


Broke out the power for a PTP650, and it has the power thus:

  * 1/2 (return)
  * 3/6 +56V
  * 4/5 +56V
  * 7/8 (return)


I seem to recall (George?) saying the PMP450M almost doesn't care 
which pairs are + and -, but I couldn't find the email where it was said.


Since we're putting the power for some of each of the above in the 
same multi-port POE, I'm inclined to wire them all for the PTP650, and 
let the PMP450M "figure it out", but I won't go there unless that is 
really the case. Does someone have a document (or anything) that 
explains what all the power options are for the PMP450M?


-bp

Re: [AFMUG] 2.4 epmp and packetflux

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Thanks Forest. If you need any testing done by me let me know. The sites is a 
little far away but I can probably get a tech to stop out and plug different 
cables in for me while I monitor remote. 

Just to make things a little more complicated I do have a PowerInjector and a 
SyncInjector at the original trouble site. Being fed from a Sync Box Jr. First 
to the PowerInjector then to the SyncInjector. 

 

Also the SyncInjector today that did work is the old enough version ( sorry 
didn’t get the version) but it’s the old enough one that says only 24 volts on 
it but it can do 48 volts. Its from that transition stage when you were 
shipping with the older label still.

 

Thanks,

Brandon

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:30 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2.4 epmp and packetflux

 

Electrically a powerinjector+sync Rev J is identical to a syncinjector Rev H.  
Same circuit, add jumpers.   There are of course some layout differences but 
electrically they're identical.

 

This is exactly the type of weird crap we see with the ePMP, that makes no 
sense at all.   I'm not recommending this, but it wouldn't surprise me if you 
swapped that powerinjector for the syncinjector and it worked perfectly.  I 
also wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.

 

I'm traveling the next couple of days, when I get back early next week I'll see 
if I can squeeze out a few hours to get an ePMP on the bench again and see if 
anything else leaps out at me as far as why this might be occuring...   

 

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Brandon Yuchasz  
wrote:

Forest,

We are running the sites on 200 foot wires. Power injector is in fact Gig and 
no jumpers were changed running on 48 volts. We are running through MTOW 
suppression REVD however we have bypassed the suppression to see if it makes a 
difference. It did not. I have also bypassed the suppression and used a 2 foot 
non shielded patch to another AP laying on the desk inside the building with no 
puck installed. It did not receive sync over the CMM3. Last piece of equipment 
is a SyncBox Junior Basic for the sync. Firmware is 2.6.2.1

 

I am at another site today where we did not have our ePMP APs on packetflux for 
power or sync. They were running on OEM power and GPS pucks. I have a 450i 
running at this site on a Gigabit SyncInjector 48 volt powering it. It has a 
SyncPipe Basic for its GPS. Since there is only one 450i on the unit I put one 
of the 2.4 ePMP APs on it and set it to CMM3. It received sync in under 2 
minutes after being physically powered off. Faster on reboot. Firmware is 
2.6.2.1. MTOW suppression is REV A1.  This site is at about 180 feet of wire 
per ap.

 

I was really hoping it would not work here and I could start looking at reasons 
that I had created to cause the issue but no dice.  Is it possible it’s a 
SyncBox Jr or PowerInjector difference causing this? I would assume others are 
using the newer platforms with ePMP and CMM3.

 

Is there any specific grounding requirements for the PowerInjectors that were 
not on the SynInjectors? 

 

Thanks,

Brandon

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 11:10 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2.4 epmp and packetflux

 

ePMP is frustrating to say the least.

 

My favorite story was of a customer who couldn't make ePMP work with a 
powerinjector.   We sent replacement equipment and they had a full tower of 
spares.   

 

Swapped the entire tower one by one piece.   Still wouldn't work.   Everything 
looks fine, lights blinking, etc

 

They took the original equipment back to the shop.  Hooked it up on the bench, 
worked perfectly.  Mind you this is exactly the gear on the tower which didn't 
work - no configuration changes, etc, other than using patch cables to make it 
work.   

 

Then they took that equipment back out to the tower, swapped it back in so it 
was identical to the original and amazingly it all works perfectly.  As far as 
I know it is still working just fine.

 

I've had exactly one time on the bench that I couldn't get an ePMP to sync up.  
 Could reboot it, swapped cables, etc, still no work.   Grabbed the cable I use 
to hook a cable up to the scope  Plug it in, ePMP immediately starts 
working.   "Fine, it's something which this cable changes".  Put the original 
cable back in place, ePMP *still* receiving sync fine.  No matter what I try I 
can't get it to fail again.   So much for being able to reproduce it.

 

Just out of curiosity, did any of the Jumpers in the PowerInjector+Sync get 
changed?   Is this a gigabit powerinjector?

 

-forrest

 

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

That’s George and Josh,

We are running 2.6.2.1. Ill do some more testing on a bench and see what I can 
figure out. Certainly is frustrating. I 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Adam Moffett]

The switches say 20W max consumption each.  Is that not including the 
SFP's?  I assumed it was 20W when fully populated.
I included a 27CFM ventilation fan for the enclosure.  A chart in the 
Hoffman catalog suggests that'll keep me 15 degrees above ambient with a 
100W heat load.


I can add a bigger fan for not much more money.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/30/2017 7:08:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

The pigtail is a good way to go, a Tyco FOSC400A closure can be had for 
about $100.


Those Mikrotiks are going to get HOT in there. I have a cooled 
enclosure, and the one I was testing with got uncomfortably got when 
loaded with optics. Definitely get industrial temp SFPs if you're going 
that route.


On Thursday, March 30, 2017, Adam Moffett  wrote:
Four of the small mikrotiks with 10 SFP slots each.  The enclosure is 
12" deep, so we're cutting some L-brackets to mount them facing 
towards the door.


I haven't thought much about a pigtail.  I think it would be a few 
hundred bucks more expensive because I don't actually have a splice 
enclosure at this pole and I would have to add one.



-- Original Message --
From: "Carl Peterson" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/30/2017 5:03:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team


What switch are you using for AE in that enclosure?
Have you thought about using a pre-terminated pigtail?  Just run it 
from your enclosure into your vault/splice case.


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:
I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find 
your super contractor team, you can give me a quote.


I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with 
splice trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm 
looking at a plain Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with 
SOC's so the cables go straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, 
waaay cheaper box.  You can also put splice trays on the back plane 
and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's 
probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger.  With the SOC's 
I can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the 
bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as someone said) put a 
splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of long pigtails 
onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly more 
expensive.


This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on 
the pole.  I've already got electric service where I'm putting 
it.if I didn't, then I'd figure on another $1000-1500.


I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room 
for scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the 
cost of the OLT you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one 
spot.  There won't be a cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is 
really cheap.  I don't know what there price is like.




-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a 
small town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor 
costs low.  Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and 
the methods of construction to provide the best value.


HDD with mud truck
Do we need a vacuum excavator?
Mini excavator
One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes 
per day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).


What to use for hand holes?
Plastic hand holes?

What are the best values for splice cases?

Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does 
not work.


So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods 
is needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the 
equipment as well as the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a 
subdivision.


From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if 
an area is worth doing.

I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.




--
Carl Peterson

PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Adam Moffett]

Well that's with NO optics.  I was figuring on the pair of BiDi's being 
part of the customer installation cost.




-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/30/2017 6:45:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team


36 users? Jesus.

That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h 
just in optics, plus the switch cost.


I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to 
figure out how many users per location the tipping point is for a low 
cost OLT vs something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100.


On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find 
your super contractor team, you can give me a quote.


I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with 
splice trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking 
at a plain Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so 
the cables go straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay 
cheaper box.  You can also put splice trays on the back plane and 
splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's 
probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger.  With the SOC's I 
can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the 
bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as someone said) put a 
splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of long pigtails 
onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly more 
expensive.


This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on 
the pole.  I've already got electric service where I'm putting 
it.if I didn't, then I'd figure on another $1000-1500.


I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost 
of the OLT you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  
There won't be a cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap. 
 I don't know what there price is like.




-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a 
small town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs 
low.  Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the 
methods of construction to provide the best value.


HDD with mud truck
Do we need a vacuum excavator?
Mini excavator
One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per 
day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).


What to use for hand holes?
Plastic hand holes?

What are the best values for splice cases?

Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does 
not work.


So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods 
is needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the 
equipment as well as the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a 
subdivision.


From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an 
area is worth doing.

I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.

Re: [AFMUG] batteries good deal?

[Zach Underwood]

follow up to this. The batteries are in there new home.
More info here at my site
https://mycontainerhome.org/solar-and-the-break-in-3-29-2017/

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 6:42 AM, Ivan Kohler 
wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 08:51:18PM +, Mathew Howard wrote:
> > Is it okay to jew people down if they're jews? or if you're a jew? :P
> > And does it offend actual jews to call it jewing,
>
> Yes.  Would you use the N word as a derogatory verb?
>
> I seriously can't believe what I'm reading.
>
> --
> Ivan Kohler
> President and Head Geek, Freeside Internet Services, Inc.
> http://freeside.biz/
> Debian GNU/Linux developer  |  CPAN author  |  cat person  |  ski addict
>



-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Sterling Jacobson]

Back to topic a bit, this is what we use for Active Ethernet in a group of 
neighborhoods, servicing up to 576 ports/customers per cabinet.

This is a parts list, I’m leaving costs out because I need to revise that on my 
own sheets.

A 5’ cabinet with dual doors, a sun shield top and battery compartment 
underneath.
It has standard 21 or 19 inch rack which is configurable and on both sides.
It has plenty of clearance for the front and back between doors and racks.
It has enough space on the sides in 19” config to install managed rack mount 
cable runners with covers.
It also has triple booted entry from the bottom compartment.
The bottom battery compartment has a sliding tray which doesn’t go all the way 
back, so there is room for our conduit from the cement pad.

We have electricians install the meter directly on the outside and outlets 
inside and do conduit for the power connection to utility.

At the top of the rack we have a 4U 576 count LC connector patch/panel system.
I forget the name of the brand/company, but they are not cheap.
They insert like cartridges/system from the back in 144 count sections I think.
They come pre-made fully populated to length desired.
We order them with 50’ usually and they are run through the conduit underneath 
the cabinet out to the curb splice cases.
So splicing is only done in the splice trailer from the curb pulling in the 
loop of cable from the cabinet and the mainline cable from the neighborhood.

That is most of the labor, the onetime splice of all that pre-made cable onto 
the various neighborhood drops.
This standardizes all of our systems to one vendor/style, where at the 
beginning we were using a lot more rack space installing standard 144 4U panels 
that are crap.

We purchase an AC unit and mount it on the side, plug it in to the UPS.

We purchase an Alpha UPS 4U rackmount system and put it on the bottom, usually 
not even really mounted, just sitting at the bottom.
That connects to a fouir battery array in the bottom of the cabinet, which is 
not a part of the air conditioning.
The UPS monitors temp on batteries with a separate cable and charges/discharges 
accordingly.

The rest is just switches and maybe one high powered router, usually a CCR 1072 
that does the backbone ring.
Most of what we use has dual power supplies so I put one side on UPS and the 
other directly on main power.
That’s just because I don’t fully trust the UPS and want the site to remain 
running if the UPS itself malfunctions.

I use UBNT 8 port power strips to monitor power usage and control outlets, mFi 
controllers to monitor cabinet doors and temperature.
So about half the power is drawn from these power strips plugged in to the UPS 
and the other half through these power strips plugged in to mains.
If the power strip fails, which they tend to do over time, then we are still 
running, just have to go replace it.

We now use standard 1U 48 port switches with dual independent 10Gbps lines out 
on the ring, expandable to 40Gbps or higher uplink per site.

So 48 ports or more per U if using SFP+ switch which might have 60+ SFP ports 
or even 96 ports.
At twelve units or less, we are at capacity for the panel at 576 connections.
That leaves a couple of U left in the cabinet if we need it.

It also exceeds the standard 15 amp circuit, maybe even a 20amp if fully loaded.

None of ours are fully loaded to that extent yet, so I might have to add or 
upgrade the power to some of these cabinets.
I’m currently paying aboiut $240 a cabinet a month for power for maybe a third 
of the cabinet usage?

So it could get expensive, hot and power hungry if fully loaded.

That’s one of the big negatives for Active deployment.

But it’s easy to start with and shouldn’t be hard to migrate to GPON gradually 
inside those cabinets.
Distance from cabinet to homes is never very far, usually well under a mile.
So we don’t even worry about costing path db.
That probably still won’t be an issue with GPON of any kind.

I am going to migrate to some fast standard of GPON before I hit unreasonable 
levels of power usage.
I just haven’t decided which brand since it’s not as ‘open’ as AE yet when 
talking about vendor equipment interoperating.

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I've torn a couple apart that use a fairly easy to use chipset.  But only
available in commercial temperature range.

Some of the battle here is figuring out the vendors who do this type of
stuff.  I want to avoid switches since I want this as transparent as
possible,  but I might end up having to go there.  I have another secret
weapon in my arsenal but I'm hoping I don't have to go there since that's
more software and software takes time.

On Mar 30, 2017 2:21 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I looked at doing media converters last year.  Not trivial.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:07 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?
>
> Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at.
>
> I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify the
> fiber up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..  Think a multiport
> ubiquiti fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver built in, along
> with tower-top management.
>
> I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little as
> possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as
> possible - I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't found
> any which I feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear some more of
> the units apart to figure out what chipsets are available.
>
> -forrest
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> RB260.
>> Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.  That's a switch, so
>> maybe it's more complicated than you're going for.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
>> To: "af" 
>> Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?
>>
>>
>> I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp converters for
>> reverse engineering purposes.  Ideally some which are known to work well
>> and especially any which don't fail in non climate controlled environments.
>>
>> What is everyone using?
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

What george said.

On Mar 30, 2017 3:25 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> Yeahbut Cambium/Canopy sync
>
> On 3/30/2017 4:09 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>
> Are you trying to redo the UBNT fiber-poe?�
>
> https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/fiber-poe-accessory/
>
>
>
> From: Af  on behalf of "li...@packetflux.com" <
> li...@packetflux.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 4:07 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?
>
> Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at.
>
> I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify the
> fiber up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..� Think a
> multiport ubiquiti fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver built
> in, along with tower-top management.
>
> I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little as
> possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as
> possible - I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't found
> any which I feel comfortable integrating. � So I need to tear some more
> of the units apart to figure out what chipsets are available.
>
> -forrest
>
> �
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> RB260.
>> Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.� That's a switch,
>> so maybe it's more complicated than you're going for.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
>> To: "af" 
>> Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?
>>
>> I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp converters for
>> reverse engineering purposes.� Ideally some which are known to work well
>> and especially any which don't fail in non climate controlled environments.
>>
>> What is everyone using? �
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian*�*CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel:�406-449-3345�|�Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com�|�http://www.packetflux.com
> �
> � 
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Peter Kranz]

It's true, and it is the core business case of many other social network
companies, but people can choose not to use google.. How do they choose not
to use the only ISP in their market?

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

 

I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google has
been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same rights.
Of course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never crossed
their minds.

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

 

While the FCC's proposed "Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband
and Other Telecommunication Services" rule might not have been perfect, and
potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the
basic concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that
small ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the
clear differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify every
aspect of their customer's usage.

 

Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/ 

 

I'm open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to try
to get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the end
user.

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Josh Reynolds]

In my calc I counted both, because I was comparing AE to gpon. With gpon
the "optic" is built into the ONT. With AE it's an additional expense over
just the router.

I'll write out some of the other numbers I have in a bit and post some
graphs to see the break point on small AE vs gpon.



On Mar 30, 2017 7:01 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

One side of the BiDi is $9, the other side is $12.

Also, only one side of the link's SFPs were included in the original price.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 




Midwest Internet Exchange 



The Brothers WISP 




--
*From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:59:50 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

Yeah, I counted both sides.

Look like a 10 Cisco generic is around $7 now, not counting their s/h.

If you go bidi it's $12/each for 10Km extemp dom, or right what I said: $864
 +s/h





On Mar 30, 2017 6:48 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Looks like $9 and $12 for each side of the BiDi with DDM, but just
> standard temperature (32- 158). Not sure if they can get anything below
> 32...  at least at FiberStore.
>
>
> Gigalight has gotten aggressive again, so they're another option.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:43:04 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> Right.
>
>
>
> I assumed BIDI and extended temp range with DDM on my $900, or rather $450
> for the switch side.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:34 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
>
>
> I didn't consider the optics at the customer locations as part of the cost
> of the box. I'm not sure he did either.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:27:00 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> 72 optics * $12/each plus uplink optics
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2017 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> GigE optics would put him at $252 + S
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
>
>
> 36 users? Jesus.
>
>
>
> That would be hard to 

Re: [AFMUG] POE Polarities

[Bill Prince]

No. I had them backward (I had to look)...


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> But 802.3at is this:
>
> Pair 1: White Orange.(PIN 1 ) & Orange.(PIN 2) is *NEGATIVE*
> Pair 2: White Green...(PIN 3) & Green...(PIN 6) is *POSITIVE*
> Pair 3: White Blue.(PIN 4) & Blue.(PIN 5) is *POSITIVE*
> Pair 4: White Brown..(PIN 7) & Brown...(PIN 8) is *NEGATIVE*
>
> ... and I think you have the solid/stripes switched around backward (but
> if you do it at both ends, it doesn't matter)...
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> From Netonix:
>>
>>
>> *There are 4 Pairs and 8 PINs in an Ethernet Cable:*
>> Pair 1: White Orange.(PIN 1 ) & Orange.(PIN 2) is *POSITIVE*
>> Pair 2: White Green...(PIN 3) & Green...(PIN 6) is *NEGATIVE*
>> Pair 3: White Blue.(PIN 4) & Blue.(PIN 5) is *POSITIVE*
>> Pair 4: White Brown..(PIN 7) & Brown...(PIN 8) is *NEGATIVE*
>>
>> *24V POE Option @ .75A - constant draw can surge/spike to 1A:*
>> *802.3af/at MODE B pinout*
>> Pair 3 / PINs 4, 5 are *POSITIVE*
>> Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are *NEGATIVE*
>>
>> *48V POE Option @.75A - constant draw can surge/spike to 1A:*
>> *802.3af/at MODE B pinout*
>> *You would use this option to power most 802.3af/at devices like IP
>> Phones and Cameras*
>> Pair 3 / PINs 4, 5 are *POSITIVE*
>> Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are *NEGATIVE*
>>
>> *24VH POE Option @1.5A - constant draw can surge/spike to 2A:*
>> *802.3af/at MODE A & MODE B pinout *combined
>> Pair 1 & 3 / PINs 1, 2, 4, 5 are *POSITIVE*
>> Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are *NEGATIVE*
>>
>> *48VH POE Option @1.5A - constant draw can surge/spike to 2A:*
>> *802.3af/at MODE A & MODE B pinout *combined
>> Pair 1 & 3 / PINs 1, 2, 4, 5 are *POSITIVE*
>> Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are *NEGATIVE*
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>



-- 
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

Re: [AFMUG] POE Polarities

[Bill Prince]

But 802.3at is this:

Pair 1: White Orange.(PIN 1 ) & Orange.(PIN 2) is *NEGATIVE*
Pair 2: White Green...(PIN 3) & Green...(PIN 6) is *POSITIVE*
Pair 3: White Blue.(PIN 4) & Blue.(PIN 5) is *POSITIVE*
Pair 4: White Brown..(PIN 7) & Brown...(PIN 8) is *NEGATIVE*

... and I think you have the solid/stripes switched around backward (but if
you do it at both ends, it doesn't matter)...


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> From Netonix:
>
>
> *There are 4 Pairs and 8 PINs in an Ethernet Cable:*
> Pair 1: White Orange.(PIN 1 ) & Orange.(PIN 2) is *POSITIVE*
> Pair 2: White Green...(PIN 3) & Green...(PIN 6) is *NEGATIVE*
> Pair 3: White Blue.(PIN 4) & Blue.(PIN 5) is *POSITIVE*
> Pair 4: White Brown..(PIN 7) & Brown...(PIN 8) is *NEGATIVE*
>
> *24V POE Option @ .75A - constant draw can surge/spike to 1A:*
> *802.3af/at MODE B pinout*
> Pair 3 / PINs 4, 5 are *POSITIVE*
> Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are *NEGATIVE*
>
> *48V POE Option @.75A - constant draw can surge/spike to 1A:*
> *802.3af/at MODE B pinout*
> *You would use this option to power most 802.3af/at devices like IP Phones
> and Cameras*
> Pair 3 / PINs 4, 5 are *POSITIVE*
> Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are *NEGATIVE*
>
> *24VH POE Option @1.5A - constant draw can surge/spike to 2A:*
> *802.3af/at MODE A & MODE B pinout *combined
> Pair 1 & 3 / PINs 1, 2, 4, 5 are *POSITIVE*
> Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are *NEGATIVE*
>
> *48VH POE Option @1.5A - constant draw can surge/spike to 2A:*
> *802.3af/at MODE A & MODE B pinout *combined
> Pair 1 & 3 / PINs 1, 2, 4, 5 are *POSITIVE*
> Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are *NEGATIVE*
>
>
>



-- 
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

Re: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Rory Conaway]

I heard a comment today that I had not thought about.  Apparently Google has 
been selling this data for years. The ISPs wanted to have the same rights.  Of 
course, prohibiting Google from selling this information never crossed their 
minds.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Peter Kranz
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

While the FCC's proposed "Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband and 
Other Telecommunication Services" rule might not have been perfect, and 
potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the basic 
concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that small 
ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the clear 
differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify every aspect 
of their customer's usage.

Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/

I'm open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to try to 
get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the end user.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Mike Hammett]

One side of the BiDi is $9, the other side is $12. 

Also, only one side of the link's SFPs were included in the original price. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:59:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 


Yeah, I counted both sides. 


Look like a 10 Cisco generic is around $7 now, not counting their s/h. 


If you go bidi it's $12/each for 10Km extemp dom, or right what I said: $864 
+s/h 










On Mar 30, 2017 6:48 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Looks like $9 and $12 for each side of the BiDi with DDM, but just standard 
temperature (32- 158). Not sure if they can get anything below 32... at least 
at FiberStore. 


Gigalight has gotten aggressive again, so they're another option. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Sterling Jacobson" < sterl...@avative.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:43:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 



Right. 

I assumed BIDI and extended temp range with DDM on my $900, or rather $450 for 
the switch side. 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:34 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 


I didn't consider the optics at the customer locations as part of the cost of 
the box. I'm not sure he did either. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:27:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 


72 optics * $12/each plus uplink optics 



On Mar 30, 2017 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




GigE optics would put him at $252 + S 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 



36 users? Jesus. 



That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just in 
optics, plus the switch cost. 



I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure out 
how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs 
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100. 




On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett" < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 





I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods. If you find your super 
contractor team, you can give me a quote. 



I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice trays 
inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain Hoffman 
box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go straight into 
a switch. Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box. You can also put splice trays 
on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's. 
That's probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger. With the SOC's I can 
keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the bottom of one of 
our poles. I could also (as someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box 
and splice a bundle of long pigtails onto the OSP cable. I suspect that would 
come out slightly more expensive. 



This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the pole. 
I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I didn't, then 
I'd figure on another $1000-1500. 



I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there. The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the OLT 
you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot. There won't be a cheap 
36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap. I don't know what there price 
is like. 







-- Original Message -- 

From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM 

Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 








I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on. 

Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low. Want 
to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of construction to 
provide the best value. 



HDD with mud truck 

Do we need a vacuum excavator? 

Mini excavator 

One of these drop plows. Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was). 



What to use for hand holes? 

Plastic hand holes? 



What are the best values for splice cases? 



Perhaps try UBNT GPON. Can always 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Josh Reynolds]

Will you just concede already, I mean we're talking about SFPs! ;)

On Mar 30, 2017 6:48 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Looks like $9 and $12 for each side of the BiDi with DDM, but just
> standard temperature (32- 158). Not sure if they can get anything below
> 32...  at least at FiberStore.
>
>
> Gigalight has gotten aggressive again, so they're another option.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:43:04 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> Right.
>
>
>
> I assumed BIDI and extended temp range with DDM on my $900, or rather $450
> for the switch side.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:34 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
>
>
> I didn't consider the optics at the customer locations as part of the cost
> of the box. I'm not sure he did either.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:27:00 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> 72 optics * $12/each plus uplink optics
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2017 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> GigE optics would put him at $252 + S
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
>
>
> 36 users? Jesus.
>
>
>
> That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h
> just in optics, plus the switch cost.
>
>
>
> I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure
> out how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs
> something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100.
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your
> super contractor team, you can give me a quote.
>
>
>
> I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice
> trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain
> Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go
> straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can
> also put splice trays on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your
> fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's probably cheaper still, but then the
> box is bigger.  With the SOC's I can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I
> can mount it right to the bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as
> someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of
> long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly
> more expensive.
>
>
>
> This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the
> pole.  I've already got electric service where 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Josh Reynolds]

Yeah, I counted both sides.

Look like a 10 Cisco generic is around $7 now, not counting their s/h.

If you go bidi it's $12/each for 10Km extemp dom, or right what I said: $864
 +s/h





On Mar 30, 2017 6:48 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Looks like $9 and $12 for each side of the BiDi with DDM, but just
> standard temperature (32- 158). Not sure if they can get anything below
> 32...  at least at FiberStore.
>
>
> Gigalight has gotten aggressive again, so they're another option.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:43:04 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> Right.
>
>
>
> I assumed BIDI and extended temp range with DDM on my $900, or rather $450
> for the switch side.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:34 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
>
>
> I didn't consider the optics at the customer locations as part of the cost
> of the box. I'm not sure he did either.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:27:00 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> 72 optics * $12/each plus uplink optics
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2017 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> GigE optics would put him at $252 + S
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
>
>
> 36 users? Jesus.
>
>
>
> That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h
> just in optics, plus the switch cost.
>
>
>
> I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure
> out how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs
> something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100.
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your
> super contractor team, you can give me a quote.
>
>
>
> I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice
> trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain
> Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go
> straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can
> also put splice trays on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your
> fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's probably cheaper still, but then the
> box is bigger.  With the SOC's I can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I
> can mount it right to the bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as
> someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of
> long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly
> more expensive.
>
>
>
> 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Mike Hammett]

Those are all 10k or 20k optics. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:51:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 


1000ft is likely not going to be far enough given 36 subs in an area. You'll 
want 10K optics. 


On Mar 30, 2017 6:10 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




$7/each for GigE LX (even does dual mode 100m\1000m) 
$34/each for 10G LR 

Plus shipping 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Sterling Jacobson" < sterl...@avative.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:06:45 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 



I don’t think so on Active Ethernet. 

It’s about $21 for a pair of SFP optics generic direct from China. 

$25 to be safe including shipping x 36 is $900. 

Am I wrong? 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 


GigE optics would put him at $252 + S 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 

36 users? Jesus. 



That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just in 
optics, plus the switch cost. 



I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure out 
how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs 
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100. 



On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett" < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods. If you find your super 
contractor team, you can give me a quote. 



I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice trays 
inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain Hoffman 
box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go straight into 
a switch. Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box. You can also put splice trays 
on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's. 
That's probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger. With the SOC's I can 
keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the bottom of one of 
our poles. I could also (as someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box 
and splice a bundle of long pigtails onto the OSP cable. I suspect that would 
come out slightly more expensive. 



This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the pole. 
I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I didn't, then 
I'd figure on another $1000-1500. 



I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there. The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the OLT 
you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot. There won't be a cheap 
36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap. I don't know what there price 
is like. 







-- Original Message -- 

From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM 

Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 








I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on. 

Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low. Want 
to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of construction to 
provide the best value. 



HDD with mud truck 

Do we need a vacuum excavator? 

Mini excavator 

One of these drop plows. Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was). 



What to use for hand holes? 

Plastic hand holes? 



What are the best values for splice cases? 



Perhaps try UBNT GPON. Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work. 



So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed. 
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision. 



>From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
>worth doing. 

I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this. 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Josh Reynolds]

1000ft is likely not going to be far enough given 36 subs in an area.
You'll want 10K optics.

On Mar 30, 2017 6:10 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> $7/each for GigE LX (even does dual mode 100m\1000m)
> $34/each for 10G LR
>
> Plus shipping
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:06:45 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> I don’t think so on Active Ethernet.
>
>
>
> It’s about $21 for a pair of SFP optics generic direct from China.
>
>
>
> $25 to be safe including shipping x 36 is $900.
>
>
>
> Am I wrong?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
>
>
> GigE optics would put him at $252 + S
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> 36 users? Jesus.
>
>
>
> That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h
> just in optics, plus the switch cost.
>
>
>
> I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure
> out how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs
> something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100.
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your
> super contractor team, you can give me a quote.
>
>
>
> I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice
> trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain
> Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go
> straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can
> also put splice trays on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your
> fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's probably cheaper still, but then the
> box is bigger.  With the SOC's I can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I
> can mount it right to the bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as
> someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of
> long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly
> more expensive.
>
>
>
> This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the
> pole.  I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I
> didn't, then I'd figure on another $1000-1500.
>
>
>
> I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for
> scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the
> OLT you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  There won't
> be a cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap.  I don't know
> what there price is like.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
>
> Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
>
>
> I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small
> town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
>
> Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs
> low.  Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of
> construction to provide the best value.
>
>
>
> HDD with mud truck
>
> Do we need a vacuum excavator?
>
> Mini excavator
>
> One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per
> day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Mike Hammett]

Looks like $9 and $12 for each side of the BiDi with DDM, but just standard 
temperature (32- 158). Not sure if they can get anything below 32... at least 
at FiberStore. 


Gigalight has gotten aggressive again, so they're another option. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sterling Jacobson"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:43:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 



Right. 

I assumed BIDI and extended temp range with DDM on my $900, or rather $450 for 
the switch side. 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:34 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 


I didn't consider the optics at the customer locations as part of the cost of 
the box. I'm not sure he did either. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:27:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 


72 optics * $12/each plus uplink optics 



On Mar 30, 2017 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




GigE optics would put him at $252 + S 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 



36 users? Jesus. 



That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just in 
optics, plus the switch cost. 



I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure out 
how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs 
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100. 




On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett" < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 





I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods. If you find your super 
contractor team, you can give me a quote. 



I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice trays 
inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain Hoffman 
box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go straight into 
a switch. Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box. You can also put splice trays 
on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's. 
That's probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger. With the SOC's I can 
keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the bottom of one of 
our poles. I could also (as someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box 
and splice a bundle of long pigtails onto the OSP cable. I suspect that would 
come out slightly more expensive. 



This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the pole. 
I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I didn't, then 
I'd figure on another $1000-1500. 



I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there. The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the OLT 
you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot. There won't be a cheap 
36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap. I don't know what there price 
is like. 







-- Original Message -- 

From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM 

Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 








I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on. 

Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low. Want 
to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of construction to 
provide the best value. 



HDD with mud truck 

Do we need a vacuum excavator? 

Mini excavator 

One of these drop plows. Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was). 



What to use for hand holes? 

Plastic hand holes? 



What are the best values for splice cases? 



Perhaps try UBNT GPON. Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work. 



So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed. 
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision. 



>From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
>worth doing. 

I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this. 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Sterling Jacobson]

Right.

I assumed BIDI and extended temp range with DDM on my $900, or rather $450 for 
the switch side.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

I didn't consider the optics at the customer locations as part of the cost of 
the box. I'm not sure he did either.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Josh Reynolds" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:27:00 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
72 optics * $12/each plus uplink optics

On Mar 30, 2017 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett" 
> wrote:
GigE optics would put him at $252 + S


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Josh Reynolds" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

36 users? Jesus.

That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just in 
optics, plus the switch cost.

I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure out 
how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs 
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100.

On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett" 
> wrote:
I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your super 
contractor team, you can give me a quote.

I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice trays 
inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain Hoffman 
box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go straight into 
a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can also put splice trays 
on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's.  
That's probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger.  With the SOC's I 
can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the bottom of 
one of our poles.  I could also (as someone said) put a splice enclosure above 
this box and splice a bundle of long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect 
that would come out slightly more expensive.

This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the pole.  
I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I didn't, then 
I'd figure on another $1000-1500.

I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the OLT 
you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  There won't be a 
cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap.  I don't know what there 
price is like.



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" >
To: 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Mike Hammett]

I didn't consider the optics at the customer locations as part of the cost of 
the box. I'm not sure he did either. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:27:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 



72 optics * $12/each plus uplink optics 



On Mar 30, 2017 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




GigE optics would put him at $252 + S 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 



36 users? Jesus. 


That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just in 
optics, plus the switch cost. 


I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure out 
how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs 
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100. 



On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett" < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 





I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods. If you find your super 
contractor team, you can give me a quote. 


I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice trays 
inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain Hoffman 
box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go straight into 
a switch. Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box. You can also put splice trays 
on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's. 
That's probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger. With the SOC's I can 
keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the bottom of one of 
our poles. I could also (as someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box 
and splice a bundle of long pigtails onto the OSP cable. I suspect that would 
come out slightly more expensive. 


This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the pole. 
I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I didn't, then 
I'd figure on another $1000-1500. 


I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there. The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the OLT 
you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot. There won't be a cheap 
36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap. I don't know what there price 
is like. 






-- Original Message -- 
From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 







I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on. 
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low. Want 
to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of construction to 
provide the best value. 

HDD with mud truck 
Do we need a vacuum excavator? 
Mini excavator 
One of these drop plows. Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was). 

What to use for hand holes? 
Plastic hand holes? 

What are the best values for splice cases? 

Perhaps try UBNT GPON. Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work. 

So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed. 
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision. 

>From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
>worth doing. 
I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this. 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Josh Reynolds]

72 optics * $12/each plus uplink optics

On Mar 30, 2017 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

GigE optics would put him at $252 + S



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 




Midwest Internet Exchange 



The Brothers WISP 




--
*From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team


36 users? Jesus.

That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just
in optics, plus the switch cost.

I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure
out how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100.

On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your
> super contractor team, you can give me a quote.
>
> I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice
> trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain
> Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go
> straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can
> also put splice trays on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your
> fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's probably cheaper still, but then the
> box is bigger.  With the SOC's I can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I
> can mount it right to the bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as
> someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of
> long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly
> more expensive.
>
> This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the
> pole.  I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I
> didn't, then I'd figure on another $1000-1500.
>
> I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for
> scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the
> OLT you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  There won't
> be a cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap.  I don't know
> what there price is like.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small
> town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
> Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs
> low.  Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of
> construction to provide the best value.
>
> HDD with mud truck
> Do we need a vacuum excavator?
> Mini excavator
> One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per
> day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).
>
> What to use for hand holes?
> Plastic hand holes?
>
> What are the best values for splice cases?
>
> Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not
> work.
>
> So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is
> needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well
> as the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.
>
> From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area
> is worth doing.
> I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Mike Hammett]

BiDi is slightly more. A 10G BiDi is $48. Not sure on the temperature range. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jason McKemie"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:12:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 

I usually get industrial rated bidi optics, they're sightly more. 

On Thursday, March 30, 2017, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




$7/each for GigE LX (even does dual mode 100m\1000m) 
$34/each for 10G LR 

Plus shipping 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Sterling Jacobson" < sterl...@avative.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:06:45 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 



I don’t think so on Active Ethernet. 

It’s about $21 for a pair of SFP optics generic direct from China. 

$25 to be safe including shipping x 36 is $900. 

Am I wrong? 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 


GigE optics would put him at $252 + S 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 

36 users? Jesus. 



That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just in 
optics, plus the switch cost. 



I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure out 
how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs 
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100. 



On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett" < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods. If you find your super 
contractor team, you can give me a quote. 



I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice trays 
inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain Hoffman 
box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go straight into 
a switch. Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box. You can also put splice trays 
on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's. 
That's probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger. With the SOC's I can 
keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the bottom of one of 
our poles. I could also (as someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box 
and splice a bundle of long pigtails onto the OSP cable. I suspect that would 
come out slightly more expensive. 



This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the pole. 
I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I didn't, then 
I'd figure on another $1000-1500. 



I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there. The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the OLT 
you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot. There won't be a cheap 
36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap. I don't know what there price 
is like. 







-- Original Message -- 

From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM 

Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 








I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on. 

Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low. Want 
to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of construction to 
provide the best value. 



HDD with mud truck 

Do we need a vacuum excavator? 

Mini excavator 

One of these drop plows. Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was). 



What to use for hand holes? 

Plastic hand holes? 



What are the best values for splice cases? 



Perhaps try UBNT GPON. Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work. 



So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed. 
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision. 



>From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
>worth doing. 

I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this. 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Jason McKemie]

I usually get industrial rated bidi optics, they're sightly more.

On Thursday, March 30, 2017, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> $7/each for GigE LX (even does dual mode 100m\1000m)
> $34/each for 10G LR
>
> Plus shipping
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson"  >
> *To: *af@afmug.com 
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:06:45 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> I don’t think so on Active Ethernet.
>
>
>
> It’s about $21 for a pair of SFP optics generic direct from China.
>
>
>
> $25 to be safe including shipping x 36 is $900.
>
>
>
> Am I wrong?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Mike
> Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
>
>
> GigE optics would put him at $252 + S
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds"  >
> *To: *af@afmug.com 
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> 36 users? Jesus.
>
>
>
> That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h
> just in optics, plus the switch cost.
>
>
>
> I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure
> out how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs
> something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100.
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett"  > wrote:
>
> I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your
> super contractor team, you can give me a quote.
>
>
>
> I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice
> trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain
> Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go
> straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can
> also put splice trays on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your
> fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's probably cheaper still, but then the
> box is bigger.  With the SOC's I can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I
> can mount it right to the bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as
> someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of
> long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly
> more expensive.
>
>
>
> This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the
> pole.  I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I
> didn't, then I'd figure on another $1000-1500.
>
>
>
> I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for
> scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the
> OLT you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  There won't
> be a cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap.  I don't know
> what there price is like.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Chuck McCown"  >
>
> To: af@afmug.com 
>
> Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
>
> Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
>
>
> I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small
> town or large 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Mike Hammett]

$7/each for GigE LX (even does dual mode 100m\1000m) 
$34/each for 10G LR 

Plus shipping 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Sterling Jacobson"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:06:45 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 



I don’t think so on Active Ethernet. 

It’s about $21 for a pair of SFP optics generic direct from China. 

$25 to be safe including shipping x 36 is $900. 

Am I wrong? 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 


GigE optics would put him at $252 + S 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 

36 users? Jesus. 



That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just in 
optics, plus the switch cost. 



I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure out 
how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs 
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100. 



On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett" < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods. If you find your super 
contractor team, you can give me a quote. 



I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice trays 
inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain Hoffman 
box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go straight into 
a switch. Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box. You can also put splice trays 
on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's. 
That's probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger. With the SOC's I can 
keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the bottom of one of 
our poles. I could also (as someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box 
and splice a bundle of long pigtails onto the OSP cable. I suspect that would 
come out slightly more expensive. 



This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the pole. 
I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I didn't, then 
I'd figure on another $1000-1500. 



I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there. The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the OLT 
you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot. There won't be a cheap 
36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap. I don't know what there price 
is like. 







-- Original Message -- 

From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM 

Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 








I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on. 

Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low. Want 
to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of construction to 
provide the best value. 



HDD with mud truck 

Do we need a vacuum excavator? 

Mini excavator 

One of these drop plows. Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was). 



What to use for hand holes? 

Plastic hand holes? 



What are the best values for splice cases? 



Perhaps try UBNT GPON. Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work. 



So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed. 
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision. 



>From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
>worth doing. 

I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this. 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Jason McKemie]

The pigtail is a good way to go, a Tyco FOSC400A closure can be had for
about $100.

Those Mikrotiks are going to get HOT in there. I have a cooled enclosure,
and the one I was testing with got uncomfortably got when loaded with
optics. Definitely get industrial temp SFPs if you're going that route.

On Thursday, March 30, 2017, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Four of the small mikrotiks with 10 SFP slots each.  The enclosure is 12"
> deep, so we're cutting some L-brackets to mount them facing towards the
> door.
>
> I haven't thought* much* about a pigtail.  I think it would be a few
> hundred bucks more expensive because I don't actually have a splice
> enclosure at this pole and I would have to add one.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Carl Peterson"  >
> To: "af@afmug.com " <
> af@afmug.com >
> Sent: 3/30/2017 5:03:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> What switch are you using for AE in that enclosure?
> Have you thought about using a pre-terminated pigtail?  Just run it from
> your enclosure into your vault/splice case.
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Adam Moffett  > wrote:
>
>> I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your
>> super contractor team, you can give me a quote.
>>
>> I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice
>> trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain
>> Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go
>> straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can
>> also put splice trays on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your
>> fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's probably cheaper still, but then the
>> box is bigger.  With the SOC's I can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I
>> can mount it right to the bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as
>> someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of
>> long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly
>> more expensive.
>>
>> This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the
>> pole.  I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I
>> didn't, then I'd figure on another $1000-1500.
>>
>> I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for
>> scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the
>> OLT you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  There won't
>> be a cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap.  I don't know
>> what there price is like.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" > >
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>>
>> I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small
>> town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
>> Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs
>> low.  Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of
>> construction to provide the best value.
>>
>> HDD with mud truck
>> Do we need a vacuum excavator?
>> Mini excavator
>> One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per
>> day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).
>>
>> What to use for hand holes?
>> Plastic hand holes?
>>
>> What are the best values for splice cases?
>>
>> Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not
>> work.
>>
>> So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is
>> needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well
>> as the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.
>>
>> From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area
>> is worth doing.
>> I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Sterling Jacobson]

I don’t think so on Active Ethernet.

It’s about $21 for a pair of SFP optics generic direct from China.

$25 to be safe including shipping x 36 is $900.

Am I wrong?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

GigE optics would put him at $252 + S


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
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From: "Josh Reynolds" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
36 users? Jesus.

That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just in 
optics, plus the switch cost.

I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure out 
how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs 
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100.

On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett" 
> wrote:
I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your super 
contractor team, you can give me a quote.

I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice trays 
inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain Hoffman 
box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go straight into 
a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can also put splice trays 
on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's.  
That's probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger.  With the SOC's I 
can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the bottom of 
one of our poles.  I could also (as someone said) put a splice enclosure above 
this box and splice a bundle of long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect 
that would come out slightly more expensive.

This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the pole.  
I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I didn't, then 
I'd figure on another $1000-1500.

I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the OLT 
you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  There won't be a 
cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap.  I don't know what there 
price is like.



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low.  
Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of 
construction to provide the best value.

HDD with mud truck
Do we need a vacuum excavator?
Mini excavator
One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).

What to use for hand holes?
Plastic hand holes?

What are the best values for splice cases?

Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work.

So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed.  
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.

From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
worth doing.
I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Sterling Jacobson]

At 36 users the switch heat/BTU is still problematic.

AE optics for 1Gbps SFP for 36 users is around $900 like was mentioning below.
Switch is probably less than $1800 for a 48 port (I use Planet).
That switch can do most of the heavy lifting unless you are doing fancy stuff 
at that location like MPLS.
Maybe another $150 for 10Gbps SFP+ backhaul connection (the Planet has four 
SFP+ ports)
That planet also has does really well on energy/Watt usage, but only has one 
power supply.

Battery backup of some sort that can handle the temperature changes.

Then just direct splice or whatever the 36 to LC pigtails and plug in.

Not much more than that.

Again though, you’ve got to do a ton of venting for a fully loaded SFP switch, 
or have a small AC unit.

I think the A/C units we use are about $1500. You just plug it in standard 120v 
and cut a square rectangle in the side of your enclosure to mount it and set 
the temperature.

You’re well within the 15amp zone for all that.

And if you want to switch it over to GPON you just pull out the AE stuff and 
put the GPON stuff in.
You probably don’t need to worry about temp anymore, so sell/reuse the AC unit, 
and the switch.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 4:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

36 users? Jesus.

That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just in 
optics, plus the switch cost.

I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure out 
how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs 
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100.

On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett" 
> wrote:
I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your super 
contractor team, you can give me a quote.

I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice trays 
inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain Hoffman 
box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go straight into 
a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can also put splice trays 
on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's.  
That's probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger.  With the SOC's I 
can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the bottom of 
one of our poles.  I could also (as someone said) put a splice enclosure above 
this box and splice a bundle of long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect 
that would come out slightly more expensive.

This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the pole.  
I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I didn't, then 
I'd figure on another $1000-1500.

I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the OLT 
you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  There won't be a 
cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap.  I don't know what there 
price is like.



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low.  
Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of 
construction to provide the best value.

HDD with mud truck
Do we need a vacuum excavator?
Mini excavator
One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).

What to use for hand holes?
Plastic hand holes?

What are the best values for splice cases?

Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work.

So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed.  
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.

From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
worth doing.
I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Mike Hammett]

GigE optics would put him at $252 + S 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:45:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 


36 users? Jesus. 


That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just in 
optics, plus the switch cost. 


I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure out 
how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs 
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100. 


On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett" < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods. If you find your super 
contractor team, you can give me a quote. 


I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice trays 
inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain Hoffman 
box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go straight into 
a switch. Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box. You can also put splice trays 
on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's. 
That's probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger. With the SOC's I can 
keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the bottom of one of 
our poles. I could also (as someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box 
and splice a bundle of long pigtails onto the OSP cable. I suspect that would 
come out slightly more expensive. 


This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the pole. 
I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I didn't, then 
I'd figure on another $1000-1500. 


I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there. The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the OLT 
you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot. There won't be a cheap 
36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap. I don't know what there price 
is like. 






-- Original Message -- 
From: "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team 







I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on. 
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low. Want 
to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of construction to 
provide the best value. 

HDD with mud truck 
Do we need a vacuum excavator? 
Mini excavator 
One of these drop plows. Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was). 

What to use for hand holes? 
Plastic hand holes? 

What are the best values for splice cases? 

Perhaps try UBNT GPON. Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work. 

So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed. 
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision. 

>From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
>worth doing. 
I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this. 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Josh Reynolds]

36 users? Jesus.

That would be hard to beat..Even though that puts you at $900 plus s/h just
in optics, plus the switch cost.

I could do some napkin math when I'm no longer at a stop light to figure
out how many users per location the tipping point is for a low cost OLT vs
something with 48 SFP ports. A quick guess says around 100.

On Mar 30, 2017 3:19 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your
> super contractor team, you can give me a quote.
>
> I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice
> trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain
> Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go
> straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can
> also put splice trays on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your
> fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's probably cheaper still, but then the
> box is bigger.  With the SOC's I can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I
> can mount it right to the bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as
> someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of
> long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly
> more expensive.
>
> This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the
> pole.  I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I
> didn't, then I'd figure on another $1000-1500.
>
> I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for
> scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the
> OLT you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  There won't
> be a cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap.  I don't know
> what there price is like.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small
> town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
> Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs
> low.  Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of
> construction to provide the best value.
>
> HDD with mud truck
> Do we need a vacuum excavator?
> Mini excavator
> One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per
> day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).
>
> What to use for hand holes?
> Plastic hand holes?
>
> What are the best values for splice cases?
>
> Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not
> work.
>
> So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is
> needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well
> as the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.
>
> From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area
> is worth doing.
> I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Sterling Jacobson]

I’ve got five of those, seem to working ok so far.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

Have you seen this one?
https://routerboard.com/RBFTC11

I've never used it, but it's an unmanaged media converter and supposedly works 
to -40C.


-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
>
To: "af" >
Sent: 3/30/2017 4:07:17 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at.

I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify the fiber 
up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..  Think a multiport ubiquiti 
fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver built in, along with tower-top 
management.

I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little as 
possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as possible - 
I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't found any which I 
feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear some more of the units apart 
to figure out what chipsets are available.

-forrest

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett 
> wrote:
RB260.
Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.  That's a switch, so maybe 
it's more complicated than you're going for.


-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
>
To: "af" >
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp converters for reverse 
engineering purposes.  Ideally some which are known to work well and especially 
any which don't fail in non climate controlled environments.

What is everyone using?



--
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | 
http://www.packetflux.com
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/linkedin.png]
 [https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/facebook.png] 
  
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/twitter.png] 

Re: [AFMUG] OT my new baby

[Colin Stanners]

Haha it includes an excerpt from the wikipedia article for Canopy... And
that article includes a mention of Stinger antennas, I wonder who put that
in long ago...
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Motorola_Canopy=257651280=257645109


On Mar 30, 2017 4:49 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> She is a cutie.

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Adam Moffett]

Four of the small mikrotiks with 10 SFP slots each.  The enclosure is 
12" deep, so we're cutting some L-brackets to mount them facing towards 
the door.


I haven't thought much about a pigtail.  I think it would be a few 
hundred bucks more expensive because I don't actually have a splice 
enclosure at this pole and I would have to add one.



-- Original Message --
From: "Carl Peterson" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 3/30/2017 5:03:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team


What switch are you using for AE in that enclosure?
Have you thought about using a pre-terminated pigtail?  Just run it 
from your enclosure into your vault/splice case.


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:
I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find 
your super contractor team, you can give me a quote.


I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with 
splice trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking 
at a plain Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so 
the cables go straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay 
cheaper box.  You can also put splice trays on the back plane and 
splice pigtails onto your fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's 
probably cheaper still, but then the box is bigger.  With the SOC's I 
can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I can mount it right to the 
bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as someone said) put a 
splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of long pigtails 
onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly more 
expensive.


This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on 
the pole.  I've already got electric service where I'm putting 
it.if I didn't, then I'd figure on another $1000-1500.


I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for 
scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost 
of the OLT you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  
There won't be a cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap. 
 I don't know what there price is like.




-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a 
small town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs 
low.  Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the 
methods of construction to provide the best value.


HDD with mud truck
Do we need a vacuum excavator?
Mini excavator
One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per 
day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).


What to use for hand holes?
Plastic hand holes?

What are the best values for splice cases?

Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does 
not work.


So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods 
is needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the 
equipment as well as the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a 
subdivision.


From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an 
area is worth doing.

I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.




--
Carl Peterson

PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

[AFMUG] POE Polarities

[Chuck McCown]

>From Netonix:

There are 4 Pairs and 8 PINs in an Ethernet Cable:
Pair 1: White Orange.(PIN 1 ) & Orange.(PIN 2) is POSITIVE
Pair 2: White Green...(PIN 3) & Green...(PIN 6) is NEGATIVE
Pair 3: White Blue.(PIN 4) & Blue.(PIN 5) is POSITIVE
Pair 4: White Brown..(PIN 7) & Brown...(PIN 8) is NEGATIVE

24V POE Option @ .75A - constant draw can surge/spike to 1A:
802.3af/at MODE B pinout
Pair 3 / PINs 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

48V POE Option @.75A - constant draw can surge/spike to 1A:
802.3af/at MODE B pinout
You would use this option to power most 802.3af/at devices like IP Phones and 
Cameras
Pair 3 / PINs 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

24VH POE Option @1.5A - constant draw can surge/spike to 2A:
802.3af/at MODE A & MODE B pinout combined
Pair 1 & 3 / PINs 1, 2, 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

48VH POE Option @1.5A - constant draw can surge/spike to 2A:
802.3af/at MODE A & MODE B pinout combined
Pair 1 & 3 / PINs 1, 2, 4, 5 are POSITIVE
Pair 2 & 4 / PINs 3, 6, 7, 8 are NEGATIVE

 

[AFMUG] ISP Privacy Pledge

[Peter Kranz]

While the FCC's proposed "Protecting the Privacy of Customers of Broadband
and Other Telecommunication Services" rule might not have been perfect, and
potentially difficult to implement for small ISPs and WISPS, I think the
basic concept was sound. I created a simple non-legally binding pledge that
small ISPs and WISPS can sign up that I feel will demonstrate one of the
clear differentiators between us and larger ISPs who seek to commodify every
aspect of their customer's usage.

 

Check it out at http://privacypledge.us/ 

 

I'm open to comments or revisions, as my goal is not to own this, but to try
to get some visibility for our industry and its unique respect for the end
user.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

[AFMUG] PMP450M POE versus PTP650 POE

[Bill Prince]

So we've powered up our first PMP450M on the bench, and we set up the power 
thusly:
   
   - 1/2 (return)
   - 3/6 (return)
   - 4/5 +56V
   - 7/8 +56V

Broke out the power for a PTP650, and it has the power thus:
   
   - 1/2 (return)
   - 3/6 +56V
   - 4/5 +56V
   - 7/8 (return)

I seem to recall (George?) saying the PMP450M almost doesn't care which pairs 
are + and -, but I couldn't find the email where it was said.
Since we're putting the power for some of each of the above in the same 
multi-port POE, I'm inclined to wire them all for the PTP650, and let the 
PMP450M "figure it out", but I won't go there unless that is really the case. 
Does someone have a document (or anything) that explains what all the power 
options are for the PMP450M?
-bp

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[George Skorup]

Sounds like you're saying each copper injector port converted to an SFP? 
That would work. I could actually see that working very well with CWDM 
muxes and the existing 12/2 or 14/2 and 4x SMF hybrid cables on the 
market right now.


But as I mentioned before, if you have a radio with only a 100Mb 
interface, a regular gigabit media converter won't do any good (because 
they're 1G in, 1G out). Maybe if your device could take 100FX/BX and 
1000SX/LX SFPs, then it wouldn't be much of an issue, just match the SFP 
with the copper speed of the radio. No switch on top, all ethernet 
circuits to the shelter/cabinet I feel is always more appropriate, 
especially for routed applications.


On 3/30/2017 3:07 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at.

I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify 
the fiber up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..  Think a 
multiport ubiquiti fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver 
built in, along with tower-top management.


I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little 
as possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as 
possible - I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't 
found any which I feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear 
some more of the units apart to figure out what chipsets are available.


-forrest

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


RB260.
Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.  That's a
switch, so maybe it's more complicated than you're going for.


-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" >
To: "af" >
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?


I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp
converters for reverse engineering purposes.  Ideally some which
are known to work well and especially any which don't fail in non
climate controlled environments.

What is everyone using?





--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com  | 
http://www.packetflux.com 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[George Skorup]

Yeahbut Cambium/Canopy sync

On 3/30/2017 4:09 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Are you trying to redo the UBNT fiber-poe?

https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/fiber-poe-accessory/



From: Af > on 
behalf of "li...@packetflux.com " 
>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com " >

Date: Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 4:07 PM
To: "af@afmug.com " >

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at.

I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify 
the fiber up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..  Think a 
multiport ubiquiti fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver 
built in, along with tower-top management.


I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little 
as possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as 
possible - I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't 
found any which I feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear 
some more of the units apart to figure out what chipsets are available.


-forrest

*//*

*/Gino Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


RB260.
Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.  That's a
switch, so maybe it's more complicated than you're going for.


-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" >
To: "af" >
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?


I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp
converters for reverse engineering purposes.  Ideally some which
are known to work well and especially any which don't fail in non
climate controlled environments.

What is everyone using?





--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com  | 
http://www.packetflux.com 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] cnPilot r190

[George Skorup]

Hot Stand-By, duh. Oh...

On 3/30/2017 3:39 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
"Home and Small Business", I'm guessing (as opposed to the Enterprise 
products).


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Gino Villarini > wrote:


What hsb stands for?

From: Af > on
behalf of Eric Muehleisen >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com " >
Date: Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 1:50 PM
To: "af@afmug.com " >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] cnPilot r190

"R190 HSB 2x2 802.11 Wave1"


http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/bstrc49894/attachments/bstrc49894/cnPilot_Indoor/1569/1/cnPilot_overview%20Jan%202017.pdf




*//*

*/Gino Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Josh Luthman
>
wrote:

It's something along that line, but I'm guessing it's like the
R200 - 2ghz only - with internal antennas.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, George Skorup
>
wrote:

No idea. Based on the name though, wouldn't surprise me if
it's just a 150N version of the R200. Also wouldn't
surprise me if I was completely wrong.


On 3/30/2017 10:17 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

There's a webinar on April 27 for it but I don't see the
product anywhere. Anyone know what this is?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] N-Male Pigtails for 5 GHz / A5c?

[Christopher Gray]

Thank you for the suggestions. I ended up getting cables from MPD Digital
as Rory suggested. You can get them through Amazon (Good price, no website
risk like their custom cable page had). They are not low PIM connectors,
but I'm planning for this to be a set-and-forget setup... we'll see.

Thank you.


On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 8:12 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:

> +1 for Shireen.  They will make anything you want.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:14 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] N-Male Pigtails for 5 GHz / A5c?
>
>
>
> Shireen Inc makes some
>
>
>
> On Mar 28, 2017 9:50 AM, "Christopher Gray" 
> wrote:
>
> Any recommendations for pre-made high quality pigtails for use on 5 GHz
> with the A5c?
>
>
>
> Thank you - Chris
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Gino Villarini]

Are you trying to redo the UBNT fiber-poe?

https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/fiber-poe-accessory/



From: Af > on behalf of 
"li...@packetflux.com" 
>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 4:07 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at.

I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify the fiber 
up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..  Think a multiport ubiquiti 
fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver built in, along with tower-top 
management.

I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little as 
possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as possible - 
I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't found any which I 
feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear some more of the units apart 
to figure out what chipsets are available.

-forrest




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett 
> wrote:
RB260.
Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.  That's a switch, so maybe 
it's more complicated than you're going for.


-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
>
To: "af" >
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp converters for reverse 
engineering purposes.  Ideally some which are known to work well and especially 
any which don't fail in non climate controlled environments.

What is everyone using?



--
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | 
http://www.packetflux.com
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/linkedin.png]
 [https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/facebook.png] 
  
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/twitter.png] 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Chuck McCown]

So give us a rundown on what you consider a minimum equipment list please.  

From: Craig Schmaderer 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

Chuck I am working on this very thing as well.  We have been in our small town 
for 4 years.  I think we will be done with it next year for sure.  1500 homes, 
I think I did 2 drops the first year…. LOL   All of my storage and equipment is 
here taking up a 7200 square foot building.  I have 3-4 guys dedicated to fiber 
now.  Before I move into the next town, my plan is to have enough guys that I 
can install mainline and drops right behind them and hooking up customers right 
away.  Now we spend months on main line and then usually pull and splice fiber 
all winter.  In between this we do drops and installs for the existing plant.  
So that is why I am heavily looking at a all microduct system from Clearfield.  
I think with five guys I can run this crew in and just hammer mainline and 
drops at the same time and start getting a faster return.  Got to run….

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Keefe John
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

 

Busy and expensive.

 

On 3/30/2017 1:18 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I am trying to save the money on building my own stuff.  But yeah, a nice 
lean model with best practices and procedures will work both ways.  Most fiber 
contractors I know are very busy.

   

  From: Bill Prince 

  Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 12:03 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

   

  As time goes on, it appears that this will be a great opportunity for someone 
to come up with a model to do fiber build outs as a service to others. If you 
can figure out where all the time goes and eliminate that part of it , you 
might be able to make some real $$$.

   

  -bp

   

  On Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:56 AM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com 
wrote:

   

  But I do not want to pay them to make a profit doing this.  I want it done at 
cost.  

   

  From: Josh Reynolds 

  Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:52 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

   

  There are companies that already do this. They contract for CenturyLink, 
AT, Time Warner, etc. We hired one to do all of our outside plant. 

   

  Lots of  to be made if you do it right and have a good crew. They always 
hire local labor for ditch digging, but their splice crews and management are 
continuous.

   

  On Mar 30, 2017 12:50 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small 
town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.  

Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low.  
Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of 
construction to provide the best value.  

 

HDD with mud truck

Do we need a vacuum excavator?

Mini excavator

One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per 
day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).

 

What to use for hand holes?

Plastic hand holes?

 

What are the best values for splice cases?

 

Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not 
work.

 

So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is 
needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as 
the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.  

 

From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area 
is worth doing.  

I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.  

   

 

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Craig Schmaderer]

Chuck I am working on this very thing as well.  We have been in our small town 
for 4 years.  I think we will be done with it next year for sure.  1500 homes, 
I think I did 2 drops the first year…. LOL   All of my storage and equipment is 
here taking up a 7200 square foot building.  I have 3-4 guys dedicated to fiber 
now.  Before I move into the next town, my plan is to have enough guys that I 
can install mainline and drops right behind them and hooking up customers right 
away.  Now we spend months on main line and then usually pull and splice fiber 
all winter.  In between this we do drops and installs for the existing plant.  
So that is why I am heavily looking at a all microduct system from Clearfield.  
I think with five guys I can run this crew in and just hammer mainline and 
drops at the same time and start getting a faster return.  Got to run….

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Keefe John
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team


Busy and expensive.

On 3/30/2017 1:18 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I am trying to save the money on building my own stuff.  But yeah, a nice lean 
model with best practices and procedures will work both ways.  Most fiber 
contractors I know are very busy.

From: Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

As time goes on, it appears that this will be a great opportunity for someone 
to come up with a model to do fiber build outs as a service to others. If you 
can figure out where all the time goes and eliminate that part of it , you 
might be able to make some real $$$.

-bp

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:56 AM, Chuck McCown 
 wrote:

But I do not want to pay them to make a profit doing this.  I want it done at 
cost.

From: Josh 
Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:52 AM
To: 
af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

There are companies that already do this. They contract for CenturyLink, AT, 
Time Warner, etc. We hired one to do all of our outside plant.

Lots of  to be made if you do it right and have a good crew. They always hire 
local labor for ditch digging, but their splice crews and management are 
continuous.

On Mar 30, 2017 12:50 PM, "Chuck McCown" 
>
 wrote:
I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low.  
Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of 
construction to provide the best value.

HDD with mud truck
Do we need a vacuum excavator?
Mini excavator
One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).

What to use for hand holes?
Plastic hand holes?

What are the best values for splice cases?

Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work.

So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed.  
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.

From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
worth doing.
I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Carl Peterson]

What switch are you using for AE in that enclosure?
Have you thought about using a pre-terminated pigtail?  Just run it from
your enclosure into your vault/splice case.

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'm on a similar quest for low cost deployment methods.  If you find your
> super contractor team, you can give me a quote.
>
> I was planning a switch cabinet with rackmount 2U enclosures with splice
> trays inside and a patch panel on the front.now I'm looking at a plain
> Hoffman box, fanout the cables and terminate with SOC's so the cables go
> straight into a switch.  Waaay fewer parts, waaay cheaper box.  You can
> also put splice trays on the back plane and splice pigtails onto your
> fanouts rather than use SOC's.  That's probably cheaper still, but then the
> box is bigger.  With the SOC's I can keep the box down to 20" wide, and I
> can mount it right to the bottom of one of our poles.  I could also (as
> someone said) put a splice enclosure above this box and splice a bundle of
> long pigtails onto the OSP cable.  I suspect that would come out slightly
> more expensive.
>
> This box for 36 AE users will come in under $1800 and goes right on the
> pole.  I've already got electric service where I'm putting it.if I
> didn't, then I'd figure on another $1000-1500.
>
> I'm not ready for the PON rabbit hole yet, but I see a lot of room for
> scrimping there.  The problem I see is to be efficient with the cost of the
> OLT you need to aggregate hundreds of customers to one spot.  There won't
> be a cheap 36 user PON boxunless UBNT is really cheap.  I don't know
> what there price is like.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/30/2017 1:50:18 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small
> town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
> Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs
> low.  Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of
> construction to provide the best value.
>
> HDD with mud truck
> Do we need a vacuum excavator?
> Mini excavator
> One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per
> day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).
>
> What to use for hand holes?
> Plastic hand holes?
>
> What are the best values for splice cases?
>
> Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not
> work.
>
> So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is
> needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well
> as the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.
>
> From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area
> is worth doing.
> I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.
>
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Keefe John]

Busy and expensive.


On 3/30/2017 1:18 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I am trying to save the money on building my own stuff. But yeah, a 
nice lean model with best practices and procedures will work both 
ways.  Most fiber contractors I know are very busy.

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 12:03 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
As time goes on, it appears that this will be a great opportunity for 
someone to come up with a model to do fiber build outs as a service to 
others. If you can figure out where all the time goes and eliminate 
that part of it , you might be able to make some real $$$.

-bp


On Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:56 AM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:



But I do not want to pay them to make a profit doing this.  I want it 
done at cost.
*From:* Josh Reynolds 


*Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:52 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 


*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
There are companies that already do this. They contract for 
CenturyLink, AT, Time Warner, etc. We hired one to do all of our 
outside plant.
Lots of  to be made if you do it right and have a good crew. They 
always hire local labor for ditch digging, but their splice crews and 
management are continuous.
On Mar 30, 2017 12:50 PM, "Chuck McCown" > 
wrote:


I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a
small town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor
costs low. Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and
the methods of construction to provide the best value.
HDD with mud truck
Do we need a vacuum excavator?
Mini excavator
One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes
per day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).
What to use for hand holes?
Plastic hand holes?
What are the best values for splice cases?
Perhaps try UBNT GPON. Can always throw it in the ditch if it does
not work.
So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and
methods is needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from
the equipment as well as the labor costs to estimate the costs to
do a subdivision.
From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if
an area is worth doing.
I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.

Re: [AFMUG] cnPilot r190

[Mathew Howard]

"Home and Small Business", I'm guessing (as opposed to the Enterprise
products).

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> What hsb stands for?
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Eric Muehleisen <
> ericm...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 1:50 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] cnPilot r190
>
> "R190 HSB 2x2 802.11 Wave1"
>
> http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/bstrc49894/attachments/
> bstrc49894/cnPilot_Indoor/1569/1/cnPilot_overview%20Jan%202017.pdf
>
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> It's something along that line, but I'm guessing it's like the R200 -
>> 2ghz only - with internal antennas.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, George Skorup > > wrote:
>>
>>> No idea. Based on the name though, wouldn't surprise me if it's just a
>>> 150N version of the R200. Also wouldn't surprise me if I was completely
>>> wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/30/2017 10:17 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> There's a webinar on April 27 for it but I don't see the product
>>> anywhere.  Anyone know what this is?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[AFMUG] Giveaway camera for new customers

[Paul McCall]

Looking for an inexpensive, but not junk, security camera to give away with new 
business installs.  Not wanting to create a maintenance liability.

Something like this maybe?

https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Security-KAMTRON-Surveillance-Detection/dp/B01MF5X3TT/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

OR

Does it make sense to get something with a central control unit for ALL of 
these 1 camera type customers ??

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] cnPilot r190

[Gino Villarini]

What hsb stands for?

From: Af > on behalf of Eric 
Muehleisen >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 1:50 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] cnPilot r190

"R190 HSB 2x2 802.11 Wave1"

http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/bstrc49894/attachments/bstrc49894/cnPilot_Indoor/1569/1/cnPilot_overview%20Jan%202017.pdf





Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
It's something along that line, but I'm guessing it's like the R200 - 2ghz only 
- with internal antennas.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
No idea. Based on the name though, wouldn't surprise me if it's just a 150N 
version of the R200. Also wouldn't surprise me if I was completely wrong.


On 3/30/2017 10:17 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
There's a webinar on April 27 for it but I don't see the product anywhere.  
Anyone know what this is?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Adam Moffett]

Have you seen this one?
https://routerboard.com/RBFTC11

I've never used it, but it's an unmanaged media converter and supposedly 
works to -40C.



-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
To: "af" 
Sent: 3/30/2017 4:07:17 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?


Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at.

I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify the 
fiber up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..  Think a 
multiport ubiquiti fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver 
built in, along with tower-top management.


I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little as 
possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as 
possible - I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't 
found any which I feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear 
some more of the units apart to figure out what chipsets are available.


-forrest

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

RB260.
Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.  That's a switch, 
so maybe it's more complicated than you're going for.



-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
To: "af" 
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp converters 
for reverse engineering purposes.  Ideally some which are known to 
work well and especially any which don't fail in non climate 
controlled environments.


What is everyone using?




--
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  
  

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Chuck McCown]

I looked at doing media converters last year.  Not trivial.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:07 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at. 

I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify the fiber 
up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..  Think a multiport ubiquiti 
fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver built in, along with tower-top 
management.

I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little as 
possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as possible - 
I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't found any which I 
feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear some more of the units apart 
to figure out what chipsets are available.

-forrest

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

  RB260.
  Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.  That's a switch, so 
maybe it's more complicated than you're going for.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
  To: "af" 
  Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp converters for 
reverse engineering purposes.  Ideally some which are known to work well and 
especially any which don't fail in non climate controlled environments. 

What is everyone using?  




-- 

  Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

  Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
  forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

 

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Dave]

I do like my planet switches due to the exteme temps they can work at 
and humidity.



On 03/30/2017 03:07 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at.

I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify 
the fiber up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..  Think a 
multiport ubiquiti fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver 
built in, along with tower-top management.


I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little 
as possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as 
possible - I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't 
found any which I feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear 
some more of the units apart to figure out what chipsets are available.


-forrest

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:


RB260.
Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.  That's a
switch, so maybe it's more complicated than you're going for.


-- Original Message --
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" >
To: "af" >
Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?


I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp
converters for reverse engineering purposes.  Ideally some which
are known to work well and especially any which don't fail in non
climate controlled environments.

What is everyone using?





--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com  | 
http://www.packetflux.com 
 
 





--

Re: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yeah, maybe I should be clearer what I'm looking at.

I'm looking at various options to build a tower-top box to simplify the
fiber up the tower with syncronized radios at the top..  Think a multiport
ubiquiti fiberpoe with sync over power and a gps receiver built in, along
with tower-top management.

I don't want to include a switch up top - most people want as little as
possible up there, and I'd rather keep the whole thing as simple as
possible - I'd rather just use a copper-to-sfp chipset, but I haven't found
any which I feel comfortable integrating.   So I need to tear some more of
the units apart to figure out what chipsets are available.

-forrest

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> RB260.
> Haven't had one fail due to cold yet that I know of.  That's a switch, so
> maybe it's more complicated than you're going for.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: 3/30/2017 1:45:52 AM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Gigabit ethernet converters?
>
> I want to buy another selection of gigabit copper to sfp converters for
> reverse engineering purposes.  Ideally some which are known to work well
> and especially any which don't fail in non climate controlled environments.
>
> What is everyone using?
>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

[Dave]

I Switched to Debian a few years back.


On 03/30/2017 11:14 AM, Matt wrote:

BIND or Unbound.

On centos 7?  Stock version included with Centos?



On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Matt  wrote:

Speaking of that what is everyone using for a DNS resolver now days?



On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Dennis Burgess
 wrote:

Why you should have your own DNS servers :)


Dennis Burgess – Network Solution Engineer – Consultant
MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
MTCINE

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
Office: 314-735-0270
E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tim Reichhart
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

Is anybody else having issues with google dns? because when I ping
8.8.8.8 I get timedout or takes forever to load google.com







--

Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

[Dave]

Great for Caching local stuff and speeding up the end user experience.
We have been running Bind since 2003 on 6 different machines.
I recently had to purchase some newer machines to handle some requests 
that had been in service that long LOL

I had to replace drives 5yrs into it but afterwards good to go since.



On 03/30/2017 11:07 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
For authoritative DNS, sure.. but, you should really run your own 
on-net recursive resolvers.


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:


On the flip side. It's tough to beat the reliability of a DNS
server managed by a mega billion $$$ company with specialized IT
guys babysitting everything.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Dennis Burgess
> wrote:
>
> Why you should have your own DNS servers :)
>
>
> Dennis Burgess – Network Solution Engineer – Consultant
> MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE,
MTCTCE, MTCINE
>
> For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net

> Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com

> Office: 314-735-0270 
> E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] On Behalf Of Tim Reichhart
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:19 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?
>
> Is anybody else having issues with google dns? because when I
ping 8.8.8.8 I get timedout or takes forever to load google.com

>
>
>




--

Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

[Dave]

Bind for sho..
I usually stack pdns on our mail server though.


On 03/30/2017 10:36 AM, Matt wrote:

Speaking of that what is everyone using for a DNS resolver now days?



On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Dennis Burgess
 wrote:

Why you should have your own DNS servers :)


Dennis Burgess – Network Solution Engineer – Consultant
MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
Office: 314-735-0270
E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tim Reichhart
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

Is anybody else having issues with google dns? because when I ping 8.8.8.8 I 
get timedout or takes forever to load google.com





--

Re: [AFMUG] Bevy of engineers

[Dave]

My head is starting to hurt looking at it :)


On 03/30/2017 02:46 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Probably...Look at this old stuff..

On Mar 30, 2017 1:38 PM, "Josh Luthman" > wrote:


Are those eMachines running Windows 98?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

Working with ABB, Siemens and Prosoft engineers at a
reclamation plant..Lots of brain  power to get these systems
all talking niceOur stuff is operational...Now getting
protocols synced on both ends is on them.




--

Re: [AFMUG] Bevy of engineers

[Josh Luthman]

Are those eMachines running Windows 98?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Working with ABB, Siemens and Prosoft engineers at a reclamation
> plant..Lots of brain  power to get these systems all talking niceOur
> stuff is operational...Now getting protocols synced on both ends is on
> them.
>

Re: [AFMUG] 2.4 epmp and packetflux

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Electrically a powerinjector+sync Rev J is identical to a syncinjector Rev
H.  Same circuit, add jumpers.   There are of course some layout
differences but electrically they're identical.

This is exactly the type of weird crap we see with the ePMP, that makes no
sense at all.   I'm not recommending this, but it wouldn't surprise me if
you swapped that powerinjector for the syncinjector and it worked
perfectly.  I also wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.

I'm traveling the next couple of days, when I get back early next week I'll
see if I can squeeze out a few hours to get an ePMP on the bench again and
see if anything else leaps out at me as far as why this might be
occuring...

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> Forest,
>
> We are running the sites on 200 foot wires. Power injector is in fact Gig
> and no jumpers were changed running on 48 volts. We are running through
> MTOW suppression REVD however we have bypassed the suppression to see if it
> makes a difference. It did not. I have also bypassed the suppression and
> used a 2 foot non shielded patch to another AP laying on the desk inside
> the building with no puck installed. It did not receive sync over the CMM3.
> Last piece of equipment is a SyncBox Junior Basic for the sync. Firmware is
> 2.6.2.1
>
>
>
> I am at another site today where we did not have our ePMP APs on
> packetflux for power or sync. They were running on OEM power and GPS pucks.
> I have a 450i running at this site on a Gigabit SyncInjector 48 volt
> powering it. It has a SyncPipe Basic for its GPS. Since there is only one
> 450i on the unit I put one of the 2.4 ePMP APs on it and set it to CMM3. It
> received sync in under 2 minutes after being physically powered off. Faster
> on reboot. Firmware is 2.6.2.1. MTOW suppression is REV A1.  This site is
> at about 180 feet of wire per ap.
>
>
>
> I was really hoping it would not work here and I could start looking at
> reasons that I had created to cause the issue but no dice.  Is it possible
> it’s a SyncBox Jr or PowerInjector difference causing this? I would assume
> others are using the newer platforms with ePMP and CMM3.
>
>
>
> Is there any specific grounding requirements for the PowerInjectors that
> were not on the SynInjectors?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2017 11:10 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2.4 epmp and packetflux
>
>
>
> ePMP is frustrating to say the least.
>
>
>
> My favorite story was of a customer who couldn't make ePMP work with a
> powerinjector.   We sent replacement equipment and they had a full tower of
> spares.
>
>
>
> Swapped the entire tower one by one piece.   Still wouldn't work.
> Everything looks fine, lights blinking, etc
>
>
>
> They took the original equipment back to the shop.  Hooked it up on the
> bench, worked perfectly.  Mind you this is exactly the gear on the tower
> which didn't work - no configuration changes, etc, other than using patch
> cables to make it work.
>
>
>
> Then they took that equipment back out to the tower, swapped it back in so
> it was identical to the original and amazingly it all works perfectly.  As
> far as I know it is still working just fine.
>
>
>
> I've had exactly one time on the bench that I couldn't get an ePMP to sync
> up.   Could reboot it, swapped cables, etc, still no work.   Grabbed the
> cable I use to hook a cable up to the scope  Plug it in, ePMP
> immediately starts working.   "Fine, it's something which this cable
> changes".  Put the original cable back in place, ePMP *still* receiving
> sync fine.  No matter what I try I can't get it to fail again.   So much
> for being able to reproduce it.
>
>
>
> Just out of curiosity, did any of the Jumpers in the PowerInjector+Sync
> get changed?   Is this a gigabit powerinjector?
>
>
>
> -forrest
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
> wrote:
>
> That’s George and Josh,
>
> We are running 2.6.2.1. Ill do some more testing on a bench and see what I
> can figure out. Certainly is frustrating. I reached out to Forest to see
> his thoughts as well.
>
>
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2.4 epmp and packetflux
>
>
>
> I have a PowerInjector+Sync w/ a SyncBox attached running on the bench.
> Receiving sync just fine. 48VDC supply on PowerA. New out of the box, no
> jumper changes.
>
> Plugged in a 5GHz GPS radio running 3.2.2. Puck disconnected, radio laying
> face down on the table. Set sync source to CMM3. Saved and power-cycled.
> CMM sync status is down. On-board GPS status shows n/a lat, long and
> height. 2 sats visible, 0 tracked. CMM sync finally comes up after 3
> minutes and 15 seconds or so. If the radio comes up with a 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP1000 Max PTP length

[Josh Luthman]

I would think you want ePTP coming from a Mimosa link.  It wasn't sync'ed
before.  ePTP is minimal latency.

Unless you're trying to connect to a TDD AP that's already up there.  Be
sure you change the max range on the AP!!!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 1:51 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> If you're gonna go through all that, use ePMP 2k Lite's for the Tx & Rx
> filtering. I assume you're going to be doing 2 or 3 foot dishes at 23 miles
> anyway.
>
> TDD PTP = 40 miles
>
> ePTP 10/20MHz = 32 miles
>
> ePTP 40MHz = 15 miles
>
> I assume you want TDD PTP for sync. ePTP cannot be sync'd.
>
> On 3/30/2017 12:36 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
>
> The subject says it all.  What is the Maximum link length that a ePMP1000
> GPS Lite 5ghz will allow?   More than likely replacing a Mimosa b5c link
> that is 23.1 miles.  Mountaintop to Mountaintop.  It looks like I have had
> a third b5c die.  I'll know more once we get on site.
>
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736 <(530)%20651-1736>
> 530-748-9608 <(530)%20748-9608> Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] cnPilot r190

[Josh Luthman]

February came and went though =P


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:

> "R190 HSB 2x2 802.11 Wave1"
>
> http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/bstrc49894/attachments/
> bstrc49894/cnPilot_Indoor/1569/1/cnPilot_overview%20Jan%202017.pdf
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> It's something along that line, but I'm guessing it's like the R200 -
>> 2ghz only - with internal antennas.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, George Skorup > > wrote:
>>
>>> No idea. Based on the name though, wouldn't surprise me if it's just a
>>> 150N version of the R200. Also wouldn't surprise me if I was completely
>>> wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/30/2017 10:17 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> There's a webinar on April 27 for it but I don't see the product
>>> anywhere.  Anyone know what this is?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Chuck McCown]

I am trying to save the money on building my own stuff.  But yeah, a nice lean 
model with best practices and procedures will work both ways.  Most fiber 
contractors I know are very busy.

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

As time goes on, it appears that this will be a great opportunity for someone 
to come up with a model to do fiber build outs as a service to others. If you 
can figure out where all the time goes and eliminate that part of it , you 
might be able to make some real $$$.

-bp



On Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:56 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:




But I do not want to pay them to make a profit doing this.  I want it done at 
cost.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

There are companies that already do this. They contract for CenturyLink, AT, 
Time Warner, etc. We hired one to do all of our outside plant. 

Lots of  to be made if you do it right and have a good crew. They always hire 
local labor for ditch digging, but their splice crews and management are 
continuous.

On Mar 30, 2017 12:50 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.  
  Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low.  
Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of 
construction to provide the best value.  

  HDD with mud truck
  Do we need a vacuum excavator?
  Mini excavator
  One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).

  What to use for hand holes?
  Plastic hand holes?

  What are the best values for splice cases?

  Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work.

  So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is 
needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as 
the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.  

  From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
worth doing.  
  I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.  

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Sterling Jacobson]

Are you willing to work a full time crew management job for free?

The costs include all crew salaries, construction equipment and management to 
keep crew busy/around.

No management and profit, no crew.

If you are adding it to your existing company, then you need to add expense to 
manage it.

Even the good experienced construction crews require management overhead 
expense, which is generally where the “profit” goes.

It apparently doesn’t work to just forward them an email with the site plan and 
come away a few months later with a job well done, lol!

Also, tons and tons of insurance, bonding and liability to work in most 
areas/towns.

Overhead to manage the people and paperwork involved in bonding and long term 
relationship management in each area/city.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

But I do not want to pay them to make a profit doing this.  I want it done at 
cost.

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

There are companies that already do this. They contract for CenturyLink, AT, 
Time Warner, etc. We hired one to do all of our outside plant.

Lots of  to be made if you do it right and have a good crew. They always hire 
local labor for ditch digging, but their splice crews and management are 
continuous.

On Mar 30, 2017 12:50 PM, "Chuck McCown" 
> wrote:
I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low.  
Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of 
construction to provide the best value.

HDD with mud truck
Do we need a vacuum excavator?
Mini excavator
One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).

What to use for hand holes?
Plastic hand holes?

What are the best values for splice cases?

Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work.

So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed.  
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.

From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
worth doing.
I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Bill Prince]

As time goes on, it appears that this will be a great opportunity for someone 
to come up with a model to do fiber build outs as a service to others. If you 
can figure out where all the time goes and eliminate that part of it , you 
might be able to make some real $$$.
-bp 

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:56 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
 

 But I do not want to pay them to make a profit doing this.  I want it done at 
cost.   From: Josh Reynolds Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:52 AMTo: 
af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team There are 
companies that already do this. They contract for CenturyLink, AT, Time 
Warner, etc. We hired one to do all of our outside plant.  Lots of  to be made 
if you do it right and have a good crew. They always hire local labor for ditch 
digging, but their splice crews and management are continuous. On Mar 30, 2017 
12:50 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small 
town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.   Something where I own 
the construction equipment and keep labor costs low.  Want to identify the 
minimum equipment necessary and the methods of construction to provide the best 
value.     HDD with mud truck Do we need a vacuum excavator? Mini excavator One 
of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day yeah 
that one (to lazy to search who it was).   What to use for hand holes? Plastic 
hand holes?   What are the best values for splice cases?   Perhaps try UBNT 
GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work.   So a best 
practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed.  From that 
I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor costs to 
estimate the costs to do a subdivision.     From that we will look at the ROI 
on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is worth doing.   I keep getting asked 
to do this, so I guess I better do this.  


   

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Josh Reynolds]

Even non-profits make money.

On Mar 30, 2017 12:56 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> But I do not want to pay them to make a profit doing this.  I want it done
> at cost.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:52 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team
>
> There are companies that already do this. They contract for CenturyLink,
> AT, Time Warner, etc. We hired one to do all of our outside plant.
>
> Lots of  to be made if you do it right and have a good crew. They always
> hire local labor for ditch digging, but their splice crews and management
> are continuous.
>
> On Mar 30, 2017 12:50 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small
>> town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
>> Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs
>> low.  Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of
>> construction to provide the best value.
>>
>> HDD with mud truck
>> Do we need a vacuum excavator?
>> Mini excavator
>> One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per
>> day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).
>>
>> What to use for hand holes?
>> Plastic hand holes?
>>
>> What are the best values for splice cases?
>>
>> Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not
>> work.
>>
>> So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is
>> needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well
>> as the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.
>>
>> From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area
>> is worth doing.
>> I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Chuck McCown]

But I do not want to pay them to make a profit doing this.  I want it done at 
cost.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

There are companies that already do this. They contract for CenturyLink, AT, 
Time Warner, etc. We hired one to do all of our outside plant. 

Lots of  to be made if you do it right and have a good crew. They always hire 
local labor for ditch digging, but their splice crews and management are 
continuous.

On Mar 30, 2017 12:50 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.  
  Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low.  
Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of 
construction to provide the best value.  

  HDD with mud truck
  Do we need a vacuum excavator?
  Mini excavator
  One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).

  What to use for hand holes?
  Plastic hand holes?

  What are the best values for splice cases?

  Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work.

  So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is 
needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as 
the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.  

  From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
worth doing.  
  I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.  

Re: [AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Josh Reynolds]

There are companies that already do this. They contract for CenturyLink,
AT, Time Warner, etc. We hired one to do all of our outside plant.

Lots of  to be made if you do it right and have a good crew. They always
hire local labor for ditch digging, but their splice crews and management
are continuous.

On Mar 30, 2017 12:50 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small
> town or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.
> Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs
> low.  Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of
> construction to provide the best value.
>
> HDD with mud truck
> Do we need a vacuum excavator?
> Mini excavator
> One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per
> day yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).
>
> What to use for hand holes?
> Plastic hand holes?
>
> What are the best values for splice cases?
>
> Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not
> work.
>
> So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is
> needed.  From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well
> as the labor costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.
>
> From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area
> is worth doing.
> I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP1000 Max PTP length

[George Skorup]

If you're gonna go through all that, use ePMP 2k Lite's for the Tx & Rx 
filtering. I assume you're going to be doing 2 or 3 foot dishes at 23 
miles anyway.


TDD PTP = 40 miles

ePTP 10/20MHz = 32 miles

ePTP 40MHz = 15 miles

I assume you want TDD PTP for sync. ePTP cannot be sync'd.

On 3/30/2017 12:36 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
The subject says it all.  What is the Maximum link length that a 
ePMP1000 GPS Lite 5ghz will allow?   More than likely replacing a 
Mimosa b5c link that is 23.1 miles.  Mountaintop to Mountaintop.  It 
looks like I have had a third b5c die. I'll know more once we get on site.



Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com 

[AFMUG] FTTH construction tiger team

[Chuck McCown]

I am considering building a construction team that can drop into a small town 
or large subdivision, install fiber and move on.  
Something where I own the construction equipment and keep labor costs low.  
Want to identify the minimum equipment necessary and the methods of 
construction to provide the best value.  

HDD with mud truck
Do we need a vacuum excavator?
Mini excavator
One of these drop plows.  Whoever said their guy can do 5-8 homes per day 
yeah that one (to lazy to search who it was).

What to use for hand holes?
Plastic hand holes?

What are the best values for splice cases?

Perhaps try UBNT GPON.  Can always throw it in the ditch if it does not work.

So a best practices/FTTH in a box schedule of equipment and methods is needed.  
From that I will look at the ROI needed from the equipment as well as the labor 
costs to estimate the costs to do a subdivision.  

>From that we will look at the ROI on a competitive ARPU to see if an area is 
>worth doing.  
I keep getting asked to do this, so I guess I better do this.  

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP1000 Max PTP length

[Jacob Turner]

If you can deal with the slightly higher latency involved in running
tdd-ptp mode I'm not sure that there is a hard limit for ePMP.  If there is
it is likely 60+ miles.  Running ePTP mode though there are distance limits
of 32 miles for 20Mhz and 15 Miles for 40Mhz.

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Jason Wilson 
wrote:

> The subject says it all.  What is the Maximum link length that a ePMP1000
> GPS Lite 5ghz will allow?   More than likely replacing a Mimosa b5c link
> that is 23.1 miles.  Mountaintop to Mountaintop.  It looks like I have had
> a third b5c die.  I'll know more once we get on site.
>
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736 <(530)%20651-1736>
> 530-748-9608 <(530)%20748-9608> Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>

[AFMUG] ePMP1000 Max PTP length

[Jason Wilson]

The subject says it all.  What is the Maximum link length that a ePMP1000
GPS Lite 5ghz will allow?   More than likely replacing a Mimosa b5c link
that is 23.1 miles.  Mountaintop to Mountaintop.  It looks like I have had
a third b5c die.  I'll know more once we get on site.


Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com

Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

[Sterling Jacobson]

Well, I assign it via DHCP to my clients because it is actually very ‘close’ 
and appropriate to one of my provider networks anyways.

I did some speed checks and it’s very good for the most part.

Except when it’s not resolving or responding, lol!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

Don't use Google DNS, or any other off-net DNS.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Tim Reichhart" 
>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:19:03 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

Is anybody else having issues with google dns? because when I ping 8.8.8.8 I 
get timedout or takes forever to load google.com

Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

[Josh Baird]

Stock BIND is fine most of the time, unless you require some new feature
not available in EL.  Security patches are backported into EL packages.

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Matt  wrote:

> > BIND or Unbound.
>
> On centos 7?  Stock version included with Centos?
>
>
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Matt 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Speaking of that what is everyone using for a DNS resolver now days?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Dennis Burgess
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Why you should have your own DNS servers :)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dennis Burgess – Network Solution Engineer – Consultant
> >> > MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> >> > MTCINE
> >> >
> >> > For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
> >> > Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
> >> > Office: 314-735-0270
> >> > E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tim Reichhart
> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:19 AM
> >> > To: af@afmug.com
> >> > Subject: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?
> >> >
> >> > Is anybody else having issues with google dns? because when I ping
> >> > 8.8.8.8 I get timedout or takes forever to load google.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wireless HDMI

[Chuck McCown]

Which one is this?

-Original Message- 
From: Paul McCall

Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wireless HDMI

Reporting back after a couple hours in use.

This one works very well.  Fast refresh.  Watching videos is as smooth as my 
normal monitor


Paul

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wireless HDMI

On 3/28/17 12:16, Paul McCall wrote:

I will report after I try the 60ghz one



I have an older model DVDO 60GHz HDMI thing for a projector. Sometimes it 
gets angry to where the HDMI won't handshake (hooray for copy
protection) and I have to power cycle them. It's also significantly slower 
to re-sync when resolutions change compared to a cable. Other than that it's 
great. I haven't tried their current model to see of those issues have been 
improved.


~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] cnPilot r190

[Josh Luthman]

It's something along that line, but I'm guessing it's like the R200 - 2ghz
only - with internal antennas.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:24 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> No idea. Based on the name though, wouldn't surprise me if it's just a
> 150N version of the R200. Also wouldn't surprise me if I was completely
> wrong.
>
>
> On 3/30/2017 10:17 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> There's a webinar on April 27 for it but I don't see the product
> anywhere.  Anyone know what this is?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 2.4 epmp and packetflux

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Forest,

We are running the sites on 200 foot wires. Power injector is in fact Gig and 
no jumpers were changed running on 48 volts. We are running through MTOW 
suppression REVD however we have bypassed the suppression to see if it makes a 
difference. It did not. I have also bypassed the suppression and used a 2 foot 
non shielded patch to another AP laying on the desk inside the building with no 
puck installed. It did not receive sync over the CMM3. Last piece of equipment 
is a SyncBox Junior Basic for the sync. Firmware is 2.6.2.1

 

I am at another site today where we did not have our ePMP APs on packetflux for 
power or sync. They were running on OEM power and GPS pucks. I have a 450i 
running at this site on a Gigabit SyncInjector 48 volt powering it. It has a 
SyncPipe Basic for its GPS. Since there is only one 450i on the unit I put one 
of the 2.4 ePMP APs on it and set it to CMM3. It received sync in under 2 
minutes after being physically powered off. Faster on reboot. Firmware is 
2.6.2.1. MTOW suppression is REV A1.  This site is at about 180 feet of wire 
per ap.

 

I was really hoping it would not work here and I could start looking at reasons 
that I had created to cause the issue but no dice.  Is it possible it’s a 
SyncBox Jr or PowerInjector difference causing this? I would assume others are 
using the newer platforms with ePMP and CMM3.

 

Is there any specific grounding requirements for the PowerInjectors that were 
not on the SynInjectors? 

 

Thanks,

Brandon

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 11:10 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2.4 epmp and packetflux

 

ePMP is frustrating to say the least.

 

My favorite story was of a customer who couldn't make ePMP work with a 
powerinjector.   We sent replacement equipment and they had a full tower of 
spares.   

 

Swapped the entire tower one by one piece.   Still wouldn't work.   Everything 
looks fine, lights blinking, etc

 

They took the original equipment back to the shop.  Hooked it up on the bench, 
worked perfectly.  Mind you this is exactly the gear on the tower which didn't 
work - no configuration changes, etc, other than using patch cables to make it 
work.   

 

Then they took that equipment back out to the tower, swapped it back in so it 
was identical to the original and amazingly it all works perfectly.  As far as 
I know it is still working just fine.

 

I've had exactly one time on the bench that I couldn't get an ePMP to sync up.  
 Could reboot it, swapped cables, etc, still no work.   Grabbed the cable I use 
to hook a cable up to the scope  Plug it in, ePMP immediately starts 
working.   "Fine, it's something which this cable changes".  Put the original 
cable back in place, ePMP *still* receiving sync fine.  No matter what I try I 
can't get it to fail again.   So much for being able to reproduce it.

 

Just out of curiosity, did any of the Jumpers in the PowerInjector+Sync get 
changed?   Is this a gigabit powerinjector?

 

-forrest

 

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

That’s George and Josh,

We are running 2.6.2.1. Ill do some more testing on a bench and see what I can 
figure out. Certainly is frustrating. I reached out to Forest to see his 
thoughts as well.

 

Brandon

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2.4 epmp and packetflux

 

I have a PowerInjector+Sync w/ a SyncBox attached running on the bench. 
Receiving sync just fine. 48VDC supply on PowerA. New out of the box, no jumper 
changes.

Plugged in a 5GHz GPS radio running 3.2.2. Puck disconnected, radio laying face 
down on the table. Set sync source to CMM3. Saved and power-cycled. CMM sync 
status is down. On-board GPS status shows n/a lat, long and height. 2 sats 
visible, 0 tracked. CMM sync finally comes up after 3 minutes and 15 seconds or 
so. If the radio comes up with a good on-board GPS lock, it will receive CMM 
sync pretty fast. If I simply reboot the radio, CMM sync is up a few seconds 
after it lets me log in. A power-cycle resets the on-board GPS (obviously), but 
a soft reboot does not.

I remember someone from Cambium explained some of this several months ago. 
Maybe Sriram or Dan Sullivan? They use the on-board GPS for timing, regardless 
if a CMM is in use or not, but if it is, then the sync-over-power pulse is fed 
into the on-board GPS. Whereas with Canopy, this is all done in the FPGA. So I 
suppose if the on-board GPS locks up, then perhaps CMM sync won't work either. 
I don't really know.

I don't know what to tell you other than ask Cambium for help.

On 3/28/2017 4:07 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:

I figured someone had to be doing it. Its not that big of deal until we have a 
failure on one of the pucks in bad weather and then we will want to drop back 
to the 

Re: [AFMUG] cnPilot r190

[George Skorup]

No idea. Based on the name though, wouldn't surprise me if it's just a 
150N version of the R200. Also wouldn't surprise me if I was completely 
wrong.


On 3/30/2017 10:17 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
There's a webinar on April 27 for it but I don't see the product 
anywhere.  Anyone know what this is?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

[Matt]

> BIND or Unbound.

On centos 7?  Stock version included with Centos?


>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Matt  wrote:
>>
>> Speaking of that what is everyone using for a DNS resolver now days?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Dennis Burgess
>>  wrote:
>> > Why you should have your own DNS servers :)
>> >
>> >
>> > Dennis Burgess – Network Solution Engineer – Consultant
>> > MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>> > MTCINE
>> >
>> > For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
>> > Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
>> > Office: 314-735-0270
>> > E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tim Reichhart
>> > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:19 AM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?
>> >
>> > Is anybody else having issues with google dns? because when I ping
>> > 8.8.8.8 I get timedout or takes forever to load google.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

[Mike Hammett]

Until they throttle your DNS traffic... or worse. 

Also, having off-net DNS resolvers means you're potentially not being served by 
the best CDN nodes for your network. That makes the performance of much of the 
Internet shit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jon Langeler"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:04:46 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns? 

On the flip side. It's tough to beat the reliability of a DNS server managed by 
a mega billion $$$ company with specialized IT guys babysitting everything. 

Jon Langeler 
Michwave Technologies, Inc. 


> On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Dennis Burgess  wrote: 
> 
> Why you should have your own DNS servers :) 
> 
> 
> Dennis Burgess – Network Solution Engineer – Consultant 
> MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE 
> 
> For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net 
> Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com 
> Office: 314-735-0270 
> E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tim Reichhart 
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:19 AM 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns? 
> 
> Is anybody else having issues with google dns? because when I ping 8.8.8.8 I 
> get timedout or takes forever to load google.com 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?

[Josh Reynolds]

Unless they're shit.

On Mar 30, 2017 11:04 AM, "Jon Langeler"  wrote:

> On the flip side. It's tough to beat the reliability of a DNS server
> managed by a mega billion $$$ company with specialized IT guys babysitting
> everything.
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
> > On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Dennis Burgess 
> wrote:
> >
> > Why you should have your own DNS servers :)
> >
> >
> > Dennis Burgess – Network Solution Engineer – Consultant
> > MikroTik Certified Trainer/Consultant – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE
> >
> > For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
> > Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
> > Office: 314-735-0270
> > E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tim Reichhart
> > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:19 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: [AFMUG] anybody else having issues with google dns?
> >
> > Is anybody else having issues with google dns? because when I ping
> 8.8.8.8 I get timedout or takes forever to load google.com
> >
> >
> >
>