Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Just tried that and the POT still does nothing. Now it just sits at 27.6v constantly. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) geo...@cbcast.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015 9:40:04 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect 22-23 volts I think is the bottom of the adjustment range on the TSP power supply. At least you know the remote cable is working because the BCM can shut down the power supply. Try disconnecting the remote cable and adjust the pot on the power supply up to 27.6 volts. Power off, then reconnect the remote cable and power back up. It was quite a while ago, but I think that's the same problem I had on the BCM48. If the PS is turned all the way down, it sorta acts like a limiter, so the BCM can't say hey, I need all your volts! On 4/9/2015 9:29 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote: Looks like I have a bad BCM maybe. I disconnected the battery and the temp sensor and left the remote wire connected. I adjusted the pot on the BCM, and it does nothing at all. The remote wire is definitely connected correctly, if I turn off the BCM it turns off the power supply, turn it back on, and after a few seconds it turns the power supply back on.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Yep, sounds like there's something messed up with the remote voltage control. Hard to tell if it's the PS or the BCM, unless you have another set. On 4/9/2015 11:12 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote: When I cut off AC power it switches over to battery just fine. It's just the power supply control that appears to be broken, everything else seems to work. I followed the instructions line for line when I got it and it didn't appear to work properly then either, so I think I just got a bad unit. Should still be under warranty so, I'll see about getting an RMA for it and thanks for the additional information, all very good information to keep in mind.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Looks like I have a bad BCM maybe. I disconnected the battery and the temp
sensor and left the remote wire connected.
I adjusted the pot on the BCM, and it does nothing at all.
The remote wire is definitely connected correctly, if I turn off the BCM it
turns off the power supply, turn it back on, and after a few seconds it turns
the power supply back on.
--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107
- Original Message -
From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) geo...@cbcast.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 7:41:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
If the temp comp probe isn't connected, it assumes 25C/77F, IIRC. I
would definitely not run it without the temp probe unless this is in a
NOC or controlled shelter type environment.
There's a jumper that controls the battery type in use. Gel for gel, SLA
for VRLA, AGM, etc. That also does something with the LVD, but I don't
remember what. The temp compensation also has an effect on the LVD. It's
all microprocessor controlled.
With the remote cable connected and batteries + temp sensor
disconnected, adjust the pot on the BCM (not the power supply) for your
desired float voltage with a meter on the battery terminals. I usually
set it to 27.6. Do not touch that potentiometer with the sensor,
batteries or load connected.
Power everything off then connect the temp probe and batteries. Power it
back up. Like Ken said, the BCM adjusts the TSP power supply output
voltage. Check battery output voltage at the BCM, look at your shunt
reading or clamp-on ammeter, etc. You should see 1 amp (that's the BCM
current limit) if the batteries are 90% or so.
The LVD will cut off at 1.83 volt per cell for SLA. The BATT-OK contact
will open slightly before the LVD kicks in as an early warning (awesome
feature). So 22V for the BCM24 and 44V for the BCM48. That is very, very
conservative if you ask me, especially for a UPS. The batteries are not
being cycled daily like solar. AGMs can be taken down very deep in a
typical UPS situation and not sustain any damage or loss of capacity.
Again, this is not solar.
The Mean Well AD-155 LVD is much lower. Like 19.5V for the 155B, IIRC.
Fine with me since I put those at smaller sites with smaller batteries,
and they're cheap batteries, so if it ruins them, oh well, replace.
On 4/8/2015 5:54 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
With the Traco setup, the BCM controls the power supply voltage to be
what is needed to charge the batteries. The loads get that same
voltage, so the output will be 27 or 28 volts not 24.
Is there a possibility the battery remote temperature probe is not
connected correctly or is bad? I don't know what happens if that is
open. Some chargers will assume 27*C if the probe is missing, I don't
know what Traco does.
-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
I've never used this setup, but with the chargers/controllers I've used,
the output of the power supply has to be greater than 24V. In fact,
doesn't the output of the power supply have to be at least 28 or 28.5
volts? This would allow the battery controller to modulate the output to
the batteries, whether it be bulk, absorption, or float?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 4/8/2015 1:27 PM, Christopher Tyler wrote:
Attached is a picture of the setup as it is now. 24 supply and 24v
loads, everything feeds through the Meanwell regulator.
I followed the instructions from Traco, but as you can see the
battery is currently at about 23v and that is what the Traco power
supply is outputting. The instructions say to turn the power supply
all the way down and to let the BCM control the output. It's all set
up, jumper is in position 1, the feedback cable is connected between
the PS and the BCM but the BCM doesn't appear to be telling the power
supply to do anything except turn on.
Anyone with some experience with Traco care to tell me what I'm doing
wrong. It's worked like this since day one, the BCM doesn't appear to
be doing anything regardless of the battery voltage.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Which I don't :P Oh well. I have other chargers that I can use to bring the batteries up and keep them conditioned with. A really nice ICT unit in fact. :) -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) geo...@cbcast.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015 2:37:08 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Yep, sounds like there's something messed up with the remote voltage control. Hard to tell if it's the PS or the BCM, unless you have another set. On 4/9/2015 11:12 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote: When I cut off AC power it switches over to battery just fine. It's just the power supply control that appears to be broken, everything else seems to work. I followed the instructions line for line when I got it and it didn't appear to work properly then either, so I think I just got a bad unit. Should still be under warranty so, I'll see about getting an RMA for it and thanks for the additional information, all very good information to keep in mind.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Did you reconnect the battery? It senses the battery, so it might not do anything if the battery isn't connected. With the battery connected, do you see any current going into it? Also, with the battery connected, disconnect the AC from the power supply. Do you hear the relay click in the BCM? On 4/9/2015 9:58 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote: Just tried that and the POT still does nothing. Now it just sits at 27.6v constantly.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
22-23 volts I think is the bottom of the adjustment range on the TSP power supply. At least you know the remote cable is working because the BCM can shut down the power supply. Try disconnecting the remote cable and adjust the pot on the power supply up to 27.6 volts. Power off, then reconnect the remote cable and power back up. It was quite a while ago, but I think that's the same problem I had on the BCM48. If the PS is turned all the way down, it sorta acts like a limiter, so the BCM can't say hey, I need all your volts! On 4/9/2015 9:29 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote: Looks like I have a bad BCM maybe. I disconnected the battery and the temp sensor and left the remote wire connected. I adjusted the pot on the BCM, and it does nothing at all. The remote wire is definitely connected correctly, if I turn off the BCM it turns off the power supply, turn it back on, and after a few seconds it turns the power supply back on.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Sounds like you could set it at 27 volts until you get a replacement BCM
in there.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 4/9/2015 7:58 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote:
Just tried that and the POT still does nothing. Now it just sits at 27.6v
constantly.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
You can use the BCM without a Traco power supply, or in this case without the remote cable. Set your PS output voltage to your desired float voltage and it works like any other battery/UPS module. The only kicker is obviously the temp compensation doesn't work without the remote voltage control. On 4/9/2015 3:00 PM, Christopher Tyler wrote: Which I don't :P Oh well. I have other chargers that I can use to bring the batteries up and keep them conditioned with. A really nice ICT unit in fact. :)
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
When I cut off AC power it switches over to battery just fine. It's just the power supply control that appears to be broken, everything else seems to work. I followed the instructions line for line when I got it and it didn't appear to work properly then either, so I think I just got a bad unit. Should still be under warranty so, I'll see about getting an RMA for it and thanks for the additional information, all very good information to keep in mind. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015 10:25:53 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect I'm going from memory, but I also thought they told you to adjust the pot all the way down to minimum voltage. Whatever the instructions were, I followed them and it worked. -Original Message- From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 10:05 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Did you reconnect the battery? It senses the battery, so it might not do anything if the battery isn't connected. With the battery connected, do you see any current going into it? Also, with the battery connected, disconnect the AC from the power supply. Do you hear the relay click in the BCM? On 4/9/2015 9:58 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote: Just tried that and the POT still does nothing. Now it just sits at 27.6v constantly.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Oops, hit send too soon. Reason I ask about the relay in the BCM is I've accidentally shorted the output before (long story) and the relay seemed to be stuck. I smacked it and power-cycled a couple times and it was fixed. Fuses, dummy! Facepalm. On 4/9/2015 10:05 AM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) wrote: Did you reconnect the battery? It senses the battery, so it might not do anything if the battery isn't connected. With the battery connected, do you see any current going into it? Also, with the battery connected, disconnect the AC from the power supply. Do you hear the relay click in the BCM? On 4/9/2015 9:58 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote: Just tried that and the POT still does nothing. Now it just sits at 27.6v constantly.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
I'm going from memory, but I also thought they told you to adjust the pot all the way down to minimum voltage. Whatever the instructions were, I followed them and it worked. -Original Message- From: George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 10:05 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Did you reconnect the battery? It senses the battery, so it might not do anything if the battery isn't connected. With the battery connected, do you see any current going into it? Also, with the battery connected, disconnect the AC from the power supply. Do you hear the relay click in the BCM? On 4/9/2015 9:58 AM, Christopher Tyler wrote: Just tried that and the POT still does nothing. Now it just sits at 27.6v constantly.
[AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:49:05 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Correct: continuous 16.8 ~ 31.2VDC 1 second 14.4 ~ 33.6VDC If you already dropped them to 3v I think they'd be toast. If you didn't have your charger you're not really testing the compatibility with Ubnt. I believe the cut off is something like 27.5v for the Airmax stuff and your charge is around 27.3 (depending on battery). To me, that was too close for comfort and hence I use the regulator. I don't know why you would expect them to stop at 10v. At 20v both Canopy and Ubnt would happily run. The radios would continue to pull power from the batteries forever. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:49:05 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
LVD is a built in feature on the Meanwell AD-155 and the Traco TSP BCM. It's also a built in feature on solar controllers. What are you using for a charger? We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
AD-155 battery low: 10V 0.8V 19.5V(+1.5V,-1V ) 39V 2V So it would cut out at 18.5v - or 9.25v each battery; is that high enough for this purpose? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: LVD is a built in feature on the Meanwell AD-155 and the Traco TSP BCM. It's also a built in feature on solar controllers. What are you using for a charger? We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
I used a Tripp-Lite APC750 that we have to charge the batteries. It's a 12v system though, so to keep it simple for the test I just rewired the batteries in series to get 24v and then plugged the batteries in to the circuit without anything in between (TrippLite was disconnected as well). Just raw DC power straight from the trough. :) We do have a Traco TSP-BCM24A which I used to charged the batteries back up which I should have used (hindsight). Oddly enough the batteries seem to be fine, they are holding steady at about 24v, have not tested capacity yet though. So note to self, use a charge controller next time, it has the LVD built in. Got it. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:29:15 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect LVD is a built in feature on the Meanwell AD-155 and the Traco TSP BCM. It's also a built in feature on solar controllers. What are you using for a charger? We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Better than 3v. AD-155 battery low: 10V 0.8V 19.5V(+1.5V,-1V ) 39V 2V So it would cut out at 18.5v - or 9.25v each battery; is that high enough for this purpose? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 tel:937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 tel:937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: LVD is a built in feature on the Meanwell AD-155 and the Traco TSP BCM. It's also a built in feature on solar controllers. What are you using for a charger? We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Commercial power. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:18:25 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Is this powered by solar or commercial power? One approach is to use a charger that includes a LVD, like the Traco TSP-BCM (which controls a TSP series AC/DC power supply). The LVD is fixed not adjustable. -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 2:23 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:49:05 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
I can't speak for the LVD (I'm sure someone can), but I don't see any fuses on your DC distribution. I may just be missing them, but if not, you may want to consider adding some. It would be a good practice to put DC breakers/fuses in between your battery bank and charger as well. On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Might help if there was a pic, eh? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:27:15 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Attached is a picture of the setup as it is now. 24 supply and 24v loads, everything feeds through the Meanwell regulator. I followed the instructions from Traco, but as you can see the battery is currently at about 23v and that is what the Traco power supply is outputting. The instructions say to turn the power supply all the way down and to let the BCM control the output. It's all set up, jumper is in position 1, the feedback cable is connected between the PS and the BCM but the BCM doesn't appear to be telling the power supply to do anything except turn on. Anyone with some experience with Traco care to tell me what I'm doing wrong. It's worked like this since day one, the BCM doesn't appear to be doing anything regardless of the battery voltage. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:19:35 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Commercial power. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:18:25 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Is this powered by solar or commercial power? One approach is to use a charger that includes a LVD, like the Traco TSP-BCM (which controls a TSP series AC/DC power supply). The LVD is fixed not adjustable. -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 2:23 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:49:05 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
For some solar sites, we'll use a Morningstar Tristar MPPT 60 as the charger, then a Morningstar Tristar TS-60 (non-mppt) in LVD mode. Price isn't too bad and you can set the voltage points with dip switches. On 4/8/2015 12:44 PM, Christopher Tyler wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend?
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Our 24V solar sites go up to about 28.5 volts when they are in bulk
charge mode, then drop to about 27.5 volts when in float. A typical
partly cloudty day is shown below for one of our solar sites. The big
dip in the afternoon was some big clouds rolling through.
So we feel obliged to protect UBNT equipment with a 36/72 V - 24 V
converter, because I think going up to 28.5V might just let the smoke out.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 4/8/2015 12:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Correct:
continuous 16.8 ~ 31.2VDC
1 second 14.4 ~ 33.6VDC
If you already dropped them to 3v I think they'd be toast.
If you didn't have your charger you're not really testing the
compatibility with Ubnt. I believe the cut off is something like
27.5v for the Airmax stuff and your charge is around 27.3 (depending
on battery). To me, that was too close for comfort and hence I use
the regulator.
I don't know why you would expect them to stop at 10v. At 20v both
Canopy and Ubnt would happily run. The radios would continue to pull
power from the batteries forever.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Christopher Tyler
ch...@totalhighspeed.net mailto:ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote:
We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in
series.
They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will
have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two.
I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G
router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is
around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet.
My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery
without regulation.
This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much
dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it
would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up
around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off
some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that,
hopefully not too much.
--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107 tel:417.851.1107
- Original Message -
From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
To: af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:49:05 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't
need an
LVD.
Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep
the site up
then have everything go down saving my batteries.
Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator
cuts off at
19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v
they're
already sper low.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler
ch...@totalhighspeed.net mailto:ch...@totalhighspeed.net
wrote:
Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our
batteries from
being drained.
Anyone have one they recommend?
--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107 tel:417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Attached is a picture of the setup as it is now. 24 supply and 24v loads, everything feeds through the Meanwell regulator. I followed the instructions from Traco, but as you can see the battery is currently at about 23v and that is what the Traco power supply is outputting. The instructions say to turn the power supply all the way down and to let the BCM control the output. It's all set up, jumper is in position 1, the feedback cable is connected between the PS and the BCM but the BCM doesn't appear to be telling the power supply to do anything except turn on. Anyone with some experience with Traco care to tell me what I'm doing wrong. It's worked like this since day one, the BCM doesn't appear to be doing anything regardless of the battery voltage. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:19:35 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Commercial power. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:18:25 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Is this powered by solar or commercial power? One approach is to use a charger that includes a LVD, like the Traco TSP-BCM (which controls a TSP series AC/DC power supply). The LVD is fixed not adjustable. -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 2:23 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:49:05 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Is this powered by solar or commercial power? One approach is to use a charger that includes a LVD, like the Traco TSP-BCM (which controls a TSP series AC/DC power supply). The LVD is fixed not adjustable. -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 2:23 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:49:05 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Also there is a fuse in the Traco BCM, I assume you’ve checked that. I have at least one of these and it works as you’d expect. I think George has a bunch of them, maybe he’ll weigh in. From: Josh Baird Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 3:37 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect I can't speak for the LVD (I'm sure someone can), but I don't see any fuses on your DC distribution. I may just be missing them, but if not, you may want to consider adding some. It would be a good practice to put DC breakers/fuses in between your battery bank and charger as well. On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Might help if there was a pic, eh? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:27:15 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Attached is a picture of the setup as it is now. 24 supply and 24v loads, everything feeds through the Meanwell regulator. I followed the instructions from Traco, but as you can see the battery is currently at about 23v and that is what the Traco power supply is outputting. The instructions say to turn the power supply all the way down and to let the BCM control the output. It's all set up, jumper is in position 1, the feedback cable is connected between the PS and the BCM but the BCM doesn't appear to be telling the power supply to do anything except turn on. Anyone with some experience with Traco care to tell me what I'm doing wrong. It's worked like this since day one, the BCM doesn't appear to be doing anything regardless of the battery voltage. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:19:35 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Commercial power. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:18:25 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Is this powered by solar or commercial power? One approach is to use a charger that includes a LVD, like the Traco TSP-BCM (which controls a TSP series AC/DC power supply). The LVD is fixed not adjustable. -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 2:23 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:49:05 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
+1 Screw LVD. Do you want to risk losing connectivity when the LVD trips only to have power restored 10 minutes later? If you power is that crappy that it will trip enough to significantly save your battery you do not have a large enough battery. If you are doing LVD to prevent the chance of a infrequent deep discharge, it is still a waste of money. Again, more battery is the answer. A deep discharge once a year is not going to markedly reduce battery life unless you draw them clear down and leave them discharged for an extended period of time. If you don’t want to put the money into a larger battery, put in telemetry that is monitored with a PRTG/MRTG type of tool that will send you and email when things are getting low. Then you can run out with a generator or perhaps manually turn stuff off via telemetry until power comes back on. I used to be a believer in LVD but not any more. Now, if there is any chance of keeping things running, I want to keep things running. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 12:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
Depends on how long it went that low, the rate of discharge etc. I don’t think a lead acid based chemistry will develop enough sulfide (sulfite?) with one or two deep discharges like that to matter unless they are left in that condition. It takes deep discharge and time to allow those crystals to form. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 6:41 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect If a 12v battery went down to 3v, is it toast? Or if it's only happened once can you simply charge it and expect it to operate normally? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:32 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: +1 Screw LVD. Do you want to risk losing connectivity when the LVD trips only to have power restored 10 minutes later? If you power is that crappy that it will trip enough to significantly save your battery you do not have a large enough battery. If you are doing LVD to prevent the chance of a infrequent deep discharge, it is still a waste of money. Again, more battery is the answer. A deep discharge once a year is not going to markedly reduce battery life unless you draw them clear down and leave them discharged for an extended period of time. If you don’t want to put the money into a larger battery, put in telemetry that is monitored with a PRTG/MRTG type of tool that will send you and email when things are getting low. Then you can run out with a generator or perhaps manually turn stuff off via telemetry until power comes back on. I used to be a believer in LVD but not any more. Now, if there is any chance of keeping things running, I want to keep things running. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 12:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
You can also use one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390655816891 I am building my own battery back up using one of these for the setup. Tim From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 8:43 PM To: Animal Farm Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect More battery. And I do like the Morning star idea. Jaime Solorza On Apr 8, 2015 6:32 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: +1 Screw LVD. Do you want to risk losing connectivity when the LVD trips only to have power restored 10 minutes later? If you power is that crappy that it will trip enough to significantly save your battery you do not have a large enough battery. If you are doing LVD to prevent the chance of a infrequent deep discharge, it is still a waste of money. Again, more battery is the answer. A deep discharge once a year is not going to markedly reduce battery life unless you draw them clear down and leave them discharged for an extended period of time. If you don’t want to put the money into a larger battery, put in telemetry that is monitored with a PRTG/MRTG type of tool that will send you and email when things are getting low. Then you can run out with a generator or perhaps manually turn stuff off via telemetry until power comes back on. I used to be a believer in LVD but not any more. Now, if there is any chance of keeping things running, I want to keep things running. From: Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 12:49 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
More battery. And I do like the Morning star idea. Jaime Solorza On Apr 8, 2015 6:32 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: +1 Screw LVD. Do you want to risk losing connectivity when the LVD trips only to have power restored 10 minutes later? If you power is that crappy that it will trip enough to significantly save your battery you do not have a large enough battery. If you are doing LVD to prevent the chance of a infrequent deep discharge, it is still a waste of money. Again, more battery is the answer. A deep discharge once a year is not going to markedly reduce battery life unless you draw them clear down and leave them discharged for an extended period of time. If you don’t want to put the money into a larger battery, put in telemetry that is monitored with a PRTG/MRTG type of tool that will send you and email when things are getting low. Then you can run out with a generator or perhaps manually turn stuff off via telemetry until power comes back on. I used to be a believer in LVD but not any more. Now, if there is any chance of keeping things running, I want to keep things running. *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *Sent:* Wednesday, April 08, 2015 12:49 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
I should mention that this particular site is using a MidNite Solar The
Kid solar controller. I got this controller because it had some neat
features I hadn't seen anywhere else.
For one thing, it is 100% programmable. You can program the bulk
voltage, the float voltage, the LVD voltage, everything. Plus, it will
handle batteries as small as 12V all the way up to 48V, and everything
in between. If you should decide that you want to have a 36V battery
array, this can do it. It will also handle up to about 30 amps,
regardless of voltage. This one has been in operation for about 6
months, and so far I am happy with it. Our other sites are using some
Morningstar controllers, and this one is much more consistent.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 4/8/2015 1:14 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
Our 24V solar sites go up to about 28.5 volts when they are in bulk
charge mode, then drop to about 27.5 volts when in float. A typical
partly cloudty day is shown below for one of our solar sites. The
big dip in the afternoon was some big clouds rolling through.
So we feel obliged to protect UBNT equipment with a 36/72 V - 24 V
converter, because I think going up to 28.5V might just let the smoke out.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 4/8/2015 12:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Correct:
continuous 16.8 ~ 31.2VDC
1 second 14.4 ~ 33.6VDC
If you already dropped them to 3v I think they'd be toast.
If you didn't have your charger you're not really testing the
compatibility with Ubnt. I believe the cut off is something like
27.5v for the Airmax stuff and your charge is around 27.3 (depending
on battery). To me, that was too close for comfort and hence I use
the regulator.
I don't know why you would expect them to stop at 10v. At 20v both
Canopy and Ubnt would happily run. The radios would continue to pull
power from the batteries forever.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Christopher Tyler
ch...@totalhighspeed.net mailto:ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote:
We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in
series.
They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will
have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two.
I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G
router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is
around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet.
My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery
without regulation.
This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much
dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it
would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up
around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off
some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that,
hopefully not too much.
--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107 tel:417.851.1107
- Original Message -
From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
To: af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:49:05 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't
need an
LVD.
Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep
the site up
then have everything go down saving my batteries.
Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator
cuts off at
19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v
they're
already sper low.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler
ch...@totalhighspeed.net mailto:ch...@totalhighspeed.net
wrote:
Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our
batteries from
being drained.
Anyone have one they recommend?
--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107 tel:417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
If the temp comp probe isn't connected, it assumes 25C/77F, IIRC. I
would definitely not run it without the temp probe unless this is in a
NOC or controlled shelter type environment.
There's a jumper that controls the battery type in use. Gel for gel, SLA
for VRLA, AGM, etc. That also does something with the LVD, but I don't
remember what. The temp compensation also has an effect on the LVD. It's
all microprocessor controlled.
With the remote cable connected and batteries + temp sensor
disconnected, adjust the pot on the BCM (not the power supply) for your
desired float voltage with a meter on the battery terminals. I usually
set it to 27.6. Do not touch that potentiometer with the sensor,
batteries or load connected.
Power everything off then connect the temp probe and batteries. Power it
back up. Like Ken said, the BCM adjusts the TSP power supply output
voltage. Check battery output voltage at the BCM, look at your shunt
reading or clamp-on ammeter, etc. You should see 1 amp (that's the BCM
current limit) if the batteries are 90% or so.
The LVD will cut off at 1.83 volt per cell for SLA. The BATT-OK contact
will open slightly before the LVD kicks in as an early warning (awesome
feature). So 22V for the BCM24 and 44V for the BCM48. That is very, very
conservative if you ask me, especially for a UPS. The batteries are not
being cycled daily like solar. AGMs can be taken down very deep in a
typical UPS situation and not sustain any damage or loss of capacity.
Again, this is not solar.
The Mean Well AD-155 LVD is much lower. Like 19.5V for the 155B, IIRC.
Fine with me since I put those at smaller sites with smaller batteries,
and they're cheap batteries, so if it ruins them, oh well, replace.
On 4/8/2015 5:54 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
With the Traco setup, the BCM controls the power supply voltage to be
what is needed to charge the batteries. The loads get that same
voltage, so the output will be 27 or 28 volts not 24.
Is there a possibility the battery remote temperature probe is not
connected correctly or is bad? I don't know what happens if that is
open. Some chargers will assume 27*C if the probe is missing, I don't
know what Traco does.
-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
I've never used this setup, but with the chargers/controllers I've used,
the output of the power supply has to be greater than 24V. In fact,
doesn't the output of the power supply have to be at least 28 or 28.5
volts? This would allow the battery controller to modulate the output to
the batteries, whether it be bulk, absorption, or float?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 4/8/2015 1:27 PM, Christopher Tyler wrote:
Attached is a picture of the setup as it is now. 24 supply and 24v
loads, everything feeds through the Meanwell regulator.
I followed the instructions from Traco, but as you can see the
battery is currently at about 23v and that is what the Traco power
supply is outputting. The instructions say to turn the power supply
all the way down and to let the BCM control the output. It's all set
up, jumper is in position 1, the feedback cable is connected between
the PS and the BCM but the BCM doesn't appear to be telling the power
supply to do anything except turn on.
Anyone with some experience with Traco care to tell me what I'm doing
wrong. It's worked like this since day one, the BCM doesn't appear to
be doing anything regardless of the battery voltage.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
If a 12v battery went down to 3v, is it toast? Or if it's only happened once can you simply charge it and expect it to operate normally? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:32 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: +1 Screw LVD. Do you want to risk losing connectivity when the LVD trips only to have power restored 10 minutes later? If you power is that crappy that it will trip enough to significantly save your battery you do not have a large enough battery. If you are doing LVD to prevent the chance of a infrequent deep discharge, it is still a waste of money. Again, more battery is the answer. A deep discharge once a year is not going to markedly reduce battery life unless you draw them clear down and leave them discharged for an extended period of time. If you don’t want to put the money into a larger battery, put in telemetry that is monitored with a PRTG/MRTG type of tool that will send you and email when things are getting low. Then you can run out with a generator or perhaps manually turn stuff off via telemetry until power comes back on. I used to be a believer in LVD but not any more. Now, if there is any chance of keeping things running, I want to keep things running. *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *Sent:* Wednesday, April 08, 2015 12:49 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
DEFINITELY between batteries. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Josh Baird joshba...@gmail.com wrote: I can't speak for the LVD (I'm sure someone can), but I don't see any fuses on your DC distribution. I may just be missing them, but if not, you may want to consider adding some. It would be a good practice to put DC breakers/fuses in between your battery bank and charger as well. On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Might help if there was a pic, eh? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:27:15 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Attached is a picture of the setup as it is now. 24 supply and 24v loads, everything feeds through the Meanwell regulator. I followed the instructions from Traco, but as you can see the battery is currently at about 23v and that is what the Traco power supply is outputting. The instructions say to turn the power supply all the way down and to let the BCM control the output. It's all set up, jumper is in position 1, the feedback cable is connected between the PS and the BCM but the BCM doesn't appear to be telling the power supply to do anything except turn on. Anyone with some experience with Traco care to tell me what I'm doing wrong. It's worked like this since day one, the BCM doesn't appear to be doing anything regardless of the battery voltage. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:19:35 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Commercial power. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:18:25 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect Is this powered by solar or commercial power? One approach is to use a charger that includes a LVD, like the Traco TSP-BCM (which controls a TSP series AC/DC power supply). The LVD is fixed not adjustable. -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 2:23 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect We are currently testing using two 12v 100Ah telecom batteries in series. They are slightly expensive to replace, especially when we will have four (or more) at some sites, most will have two. I'm using a Meanwell RSD-100B-24 regulator for the Tik RB-493G router right now. Looks like the cutout for the regulator is around 16v from what I can decipher from the datasheet. My test radios (2 Canopy and 2 UBNT) are connected to the battery without regulation. This setup will drain the batteries until they are pretty much dead and buried. I ran them over the weekend and I figured it would stop draining around 10v at worst, it didn't. They ended up around 6v in parallel or 3v per battery. I figure I shaved off some capacity and lifetime of my test batteries with that, hopefully not too much. -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107 - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:49:05 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect First off I'd suggest getting enough batteries that you wouldn't need an LVD. Second, I'd rather see my batteries lose a bit of life and keep the site up then have everything go down saving my batteries. Tertiary/finally, what equipment do you have now? My regulator cuts off at 19v and still provides 24v. I figure the batteries are at 9.5v they're already sper low. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Christopher Tyler ch...@totalhighspeed.net wrote: Looking for recommendations on a 24v LVD to protect our batteries from being drained. Anyone have one they recommend? -- Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 417.851.1107
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
I've never used this setup, but with the chargers/controllers I've used,
the output of the power supply has to be greater than 24V. In fact,
doesn't the output of the power supply have to be at least 28 or 28.5
volts? This would allow the battery controller to modulate the output to
the batteries, whether it be bulk, absorption, or float?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 4/8/2015 1:27 PM, Christopher Tyler wrote:
Attached is a picture of the setup as it is now. 24 supply and 24v loads,
everything feeds through the Meanwell regulator.
I followed the instructions from Traco, but as you can see the battery is
currently at about 23v and that is what the Traco power supply is outputting.
The instructions say to turn the power supply all the way down and to let the
BCM control the output. It's all set up, jumper is in position 1, the feedback
cable is connected between the PS and the BCM but the BCM doesn't appear to be
telling the power supply to do anything except turn on.
Anyone with some experience with Traco care to tell me what I'm doing wrong.
It's worked like this since day one, the BCM doesn't appear to be doing
anything regardless of the battery voltage.
Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
With the Traco setup, the BCM controls the power supply voltage to be what
is needed to charge the batteries. The loads get that same voltage, so the
output will be 27 or 28 volts not 24.
Is there a possibility the battery remote temperature probe is not connected
correctly or is bad? I don't know what happens if that is open. Some
chargers will assume 27*C if the probe is missing, I don't know what Traco
does.
-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Low Voltage Disconnect
I've never used this setup, but with the chargers/controllers I've used,
the output of the power supply has to be greater than 24V. In fact,
doesn't the output of the power supply have to be at least 28 or 28.5
volts? This would allow the battery controller to modulate the output to
the batteries, whether it be bulk, absorption, or float?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 4/8/2015 1:27 PM, Christopher Tyler wrote:
Attached is a picture of the setup as it is now. 24 supply and 24v loads,
everything feeds through the Meanwell regulator.
I followed the instructions from Traco, but as you can see the battery is
currently at about 23v and that is what the Traco power supply is
outputting. The instructions say to turn the power supply all the way down
and to let the BCM control the output. It's all set up, jumper is in
position 1, the feedback cable is connected between the PS and the BCM but
the BCM doesn't appear to be telling the power supply to do anything
except turn on.
Anyone with some experience with Traco care to tell me what I'm doing
wrong. It's worked like this since day one, the BCM doesn't appear to be
doing anything regardless of the battery voltage.
